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• 3[00:05:38] <HelloShitty> petn-randall: I already did but I wanted to check that folder for myself
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• 8[00:06:38] <petn-randall> HelloShitty: `man apt-get` will tell you the dirs, I think.
• 9[00:06:51] <HelloShitty> ah ok
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• 12[00:11:03] <Thedarkb-T60> How do I change my network manager?
• 13[00:11:07] <Thedarkb-T60> WICD is awful
• 14[00:13:09] <trysten> Thedarkb-T60: I use connmanctl on one laptop but it does give me issues
• 15[00:13:34] <Thedarkb-T60> I'd like to use network manager, the ubuntu default
• 16[00:13:46] <Thedarkb-T60> "Always connect to this network" is meaningless to wicd.
• 17[00:13:59] <a0z> i use network-manager fine on my machines
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• 19[00:14:16] <trysten> Sure. That's the same issue I have and probably not the fault of WICD, but rather your wireless driver
• 20[00:14:20] <trysten> Just guessing though
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• 23[00:15:19] <Thedarkb-T60> my driver does have issues.
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• 36[00:20:36] <Cosmophile> Quick question!
• 37[00:21:26] <dvs> time's up!
• 38[00:21:39] <Cosmophile> I want to use Debian Testing. Should my /etc/apt/sources.list be set to 'testing' or 'buster', which will work, what's the difference?
• 39[00:22:28] <Cosmophile> I know buster is the name for the upcoming Debian release. I just need to know if making my sources.list for "testing" or "buster" will do the same thing.
• 40[00:22:35] <ksk> buster will make you stick to buster, testing is going to change to the new testing release, after buster is going to be stable.
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• 42[00:22:53] <dvs> Cosmophile, if you set it to testing, it will always be on testing but you'll be upgraded out of the blue when new releases are released.
• 43[00:24:23] <Cosmophile> Ok. Thanks for the information, I want it set to testing then.
• 44[00:24:29] <karlpinc> Cosmophile: If you are not installing buster you may need to follow some instructions (the release notes) to upgrade successfully from stretch.
• 45[00:24:58] <Cosmophile> I installed buster from a USB and manually changed my sources.list to 'testing'
• 46[00:25:12] <Cosmophile> which I assume is a valid way of switching to testing.
• 47[00:25:28] <karlpinc> Cosmophile: At the moment the are the same, so yes.
• 48[00:26:10] <Cosmophile> Thanks!
• 49[00:26:12] <karlpinc> Cosmophile: You might want to tell us why you want to track testing. For some this is a good idea, for others not so much.
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• 54[00:29:51] <Cosmophile> I like having the latest software, bleeding edge.
• 55[00:30:03] <Cosmophile> I've been an arch user for quite a while.
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• 57[00:30:29] <Cosmophile> I realize that Testing is not bleeding edge
• 58[00:31:25] <karlpinc> Cosmophile: Testing goes through predictable periods of more instability than normal. For example after unfreezing after a new release. Get help on #debian-next.
• 59[00:31:28] <karlpinc> !debian-next
• 60[00:31:28] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
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• 64[00:33:26] <Cosmophile> karlpinc: so, you're saying for stability, it might be better to set my sources.list to buster (rather than testing) and then upgrade manually when the next release comes out?
• 65[00:33:38] <JordiGH> Under what conditions does `crontab -e` run select-editor?
• 66[00:33:53] <Cosmophile> I'll check out that channel.
• 67[00:33:54] <dvs> Cosmophile, absolutely
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• 69[00:35:14] <JordiGH> Sigh, i guess I'll try to puzzle this out on my own.
• 70[00:35:36] <karlpinc> JordiGH: I'd expect crontab -e to run whatever editor is set by update-alternatives, unless you set the EDITOR env var, or possibly do other things to tell crontab to use a different editor. (man crontab :)
• 71[00:35:38] <Cosmophile> Thank you all, this information has been very helpful!
• 72[00:35:43] <JordiGH> Aw, crap, crontab is a binary.
• 73[00:36:09] <JordiGH> karlpinc: That's what it seems to do, but I assume there's a situation in which no editor has been set yet? How do I get to that situation?
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• 80[00:37:28] <karlpinc> JordiGH: I'm pretty sure some editor is installed on a minimal debian install. You could probably install with _only_ "required" packages and maybe not get an editor. My recollection is that nano shows up as the default, but that might not be right.
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• 85[00:38:03] <JordiGH> karlpinc: I think `crontab -e` runs select-editor sometimes, and I think I've seen that, but I'm trying to determine when.
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• 87[00:38:13] <JordiGH> It won't run it if you've already selected an editor.
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• 92[00:39:28] <karlpinc> JordiGH: Then read the update-alternatives docs and figure out how to undo any selection. This might not be a crontab question, but instead pertain to update-alternatives itself and whether anything has been chosen yet or not.
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• 95[00:39:44] <JordiGH> karlpinc: No, it's definitely a crontab question.
• 96[00:39:54] <JordiGH> I know about alternatives and how to change them.
• 97[00:40:03] <JordiGH> My question is, wtf is crontab -e doing.
• 98[00:40:13] <JordiGH> I have an empty EDITOR and VISUAL.
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• 100[00:40:23] <karlpinc> JordiGH: The man page says it runs /usr/bin/editor, when EDITOR and VISUAL are both empty.
• 101[00:40:25] <JordiGH> And I'm pretty sure I've seen crontab -e run select-editor at some point.
• 102[00:40:53] <JordiGH> Is there a way to make /usr/bin/editor select-editor itself?
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• 104[00:41:24] <karlpinc> JordiGH: I bet that /usr/bin/editor runs sensible-editor, which is set to run select-editor when nothing has yet been selected. Which is all about the update-alternatives system. Which is why I suggest looking there for answers. But that's a guess on my part.
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• 250[02:39:27] <JordiGH> Hm, why does running `crontab -e` as root not open `/etc/crontab`?
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• 253[02:40:20] <dvs> Why should it? It opens /var/spool/cron/root
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• 255[02:40:59] <JordiGH> Well, how do I open /etc/crontab and have its syntax checked before I save it?
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• 278[02:57:02] <jcb2016> when i run apt update there is 1 upgradeable package, when i run aptitude update it dosen't say anything is upgradeable. is something going on?
• 279[03:00:41] <karlpinc> jcb2016: aptitude has not gotten anything new from the repos, apt already did, so aptitude update does not tell you about anything new. "aptitude safe-upgrade" will tell you (and upgrade).
• 280[03:02:24] <jcb2016> ok thanks karlpinc
• 281[03:02:41] <aloo_shu> wasn't aptitude also using a dependency logic apart?
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• 286[03:08:02] <JordiGH> Is there something like rcconf for systemd? Some kind of TUI/GUI to see what's enabled and what isn't and pick and choose?
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• 291[03:10:32] <k_sze[work]> What's the best command line tool to use to check S.M.A.R.T status of an HDD on Debian?
• 292[03:10:39] <mason> k_sze[work]: smartctl
• 293[03:10:41] <koollman> smartctl
• 294[03:10:59] <k_sze[work]> from smartmontools?
• 295[03:11:06] <koollman> yes
• 296[03:11:12] <JordiGH> Aha, chkservice
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• 298[03:13:43] <JordiGH> Svetlana Linuxenko?
• 299[03:13:46] <JordiGH> No way that's her name.
• 300[03:14:16] <k_sze[work]> Hmm, I can't add a device back to my md0
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• 302[03:14:26] <k_sze[work]> mdadm says the device or resource is buys
• 303[03:14:30] <k_sze[work]> s/buys/busy/
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• 306[03:15:34] <k_sze[work]> How do I find out why it can't be added back?
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• 311[03:17:03] <k_sze[work]> lsof doesn't show anything for that device
• 312[03:18:00] <dooglus> replaced-url
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• 314[03:19:14] <mason> k_sze[work]: That can happen if device-mapper is interested in the device.
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• 316[03:19:47] <k_sze[work]> mason, `dmsetup status`?
• 317[03:20:22] <mason> k_sze[work]: That'd work.
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• 319[03:21:35] <k_sze[work]> mason, how do I make it display the block device though?
• 320[03:22:05] <k_sze[work]> Right now, this is what I see: replaced-url
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• 323[03:23:22] <mason> k_sze[work]: Maybe dmsetup status <foo> and then see what has the UUID(s) in question.
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• 327[03:25:18] <mason> k_sze[work]: Although from your thing, I'd tend to think just seeing two, it's not device-mapper holding the drive you want to re-add open.
• 328[03:25:46] <k_sze[work]> it might be, because the md0 in question is supposed to be our root partition.
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• 331[03:27:31] <mason> k_sze[work]: Did you try mdadm --zero-superblock on the partition(s) in question?
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• 333[03:28:25] <k_sze[work]> so this is the truncated output of lsblk: replaced-url
• 334[03:28:49] <karlpinc> !tell dooglus about debian-next
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• 337[03:29:41] <k_sze[work]> mason, why would I want to zero the superblock?
• 338[03:29:52] <k_sze[work]> (or maybe it's the man page being confusing)
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• 340[03:30:16] <mason> k_sze[work]: No, in almost every case of potential confusion, it's me confused.
• 341[03:30:20] <k_sze[work]> man page says it zeros the superblock if it's a valid *md* superblock. Why would I want to do that?
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• 343[03:30:42] <mason> k_sze[work]: Right, you want to add this thing back in and you can't.
• 344[03:30:43] <mason> Right?
• 345[03:30:47] <k_sze[work]> right
• 346[03:30:57] <mason> So, it shouldn't be doing anything now, but something thinks it is.
• 347[03:31:25] <mason> Honestly I tend to dd if=/dev/zero on devices often enough that a targeted zap of the md-raid superblock seems like a good toss-in. :)
• 348[03:33:10] <mason> k_sze[work]: Are you trying to add your sdb in? The partition table match there? I see sda{1,2,3} and sdc{1,2,3} but sdb{1,9}
• 349[03:33:28] <mason> My tendency would be to think you'd want that to match.
• 350[03:33:29] <k_sze[work]> no, I'm trying to add sdc3 back into md0
• 351[03:33:32] <mason> ah
• 352[03:33:53] <k_sze[work]> because mdadm says it went out of sync and removed it.
• 353[03:33:55] <mason> k_sze[work]: What's your /proc/mdstat say?
• 354[03:34:23] <k_sze[work]> replaced-url
• 355[03:34:37] <k_sze[work]> This md0 has always had intermittent issues. We never found out why.
• 356[03:34:48] <k_sze[work]> It's always either sda3 or sdc3 going out of sync.
• 357[03:34:52] <mason> k_sze[work]: So, it's already added in, but failed. So you can't re-add it. You want to remove it and re-add it.
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• 359[03:34:57] <mason> It's busy because it's already there.
• 360[03:35:19] <mason> lsblk wasn't lying to you
• 361[03:35:23] <k_sze[work]> oh, my bad
• 362[03:35:43] <k_sze[work]> I misinterpreted the output of `mdadm --detail`
• 363[03:35:51] <k_sze[work]> because there was already a line that says "removed"
• 364[03:36:22] <k_sze[work]> ok, works now
• 365[03:36:26] <mason> cool
• 366[03:36:27] <k_sze[work]> thanks for the help.
• 367[03:36:39] <mason> Sure, sorry about the misfires before we found it.
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• 378[03:45:08] <agio> hi, I am running firefox 65.0.1 as a standalone downloaded from mozilla.org on debian 9.8. Sometimes when I start firefox and connect to a network a problem occurs where my Xserver becomes severly overloaded and almost unusable - then after about 15-20mins its goes away. Is this a known issue?
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• 413[04:11:23] <AnononA> hi i just recently installed latest nvidia drivers due to lag in a game and the game works so good now its latest debain 9.8 stretch. Altho i did have an event last night the opiticiy on every windows went to like 3 so i could bareley see anything could see right through the windows tho lol
• 414[04:11:53] *** Quits: amcorreia (~amcorreia@replaced-ip) (Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1)
• 415[04:12:19] <AnononA> is there anything obvious that can course glitches like this after a video driver install
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• 418[04:13:38] <tehnull> gnome?
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• 420[04:14:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1502
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• 422[04:14:48] <AnononA> im running cinnamon
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• 424[04:15:22] <AnononA> it happend when i went to take a screenshot with the default screenshot app
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• 426[04:16:00] <AnononA> not sure if thats what triggerd it or if it just happend and for long gaming periods last night i had a freeze seems discord is always to go first
• 427[04:16:45] <AnononA> and the kernal headers were from nvidia for debain stretch
• 428[04:17:11] <AnononA> they were deffintly the right ones if they were the wrong ones ive herd stuff like this happens
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• 430[04:18:34] <AnononA> the debain install gave me the option to install whatever desktop enviroment i wanted debain desktop enviroment was ticked aswell as cinnamon
• 431[04:18:49] <AnononA> not sure if there is a way to boot in to one or the other to test
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• 433[04:20:51] <AnononA> ha nvidia drivers ever had issues from gnome
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• 444[04:32:51] <tehnull> iunno I never got cinnamon to not be buggy
• 445[04:32:57] <tehnull> on 3 different distros
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• 448[04:33:57] <tehnull> I use xfce and latest nvidia proprietary from their site with 0 issues other than I have to disable gsync from the command line because changing the setting in the nvidia settings gui does nothing
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• 521[05:45:25] <MikeSee> Hello, I've tried installing debian amd64 9.8.0 using the lxde live CD iso via usb. The live system worked. After using the usb to install and booting to the login screen, the harddrive install has no working usb devices (no power) It looks like power is cut shortly after loading the kernel. numlock turns off and the optical mouse light turns off. Any idea what might be happening?
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• 523[05:49:45] <karlpinc> MikeSee: Could be non-free firmware drivers, possibly. Check dmesg and the logs.
• 524[05:50:06] <karlpinc> MikeSee: You could try installing with the unoffical netinstall with non-free firmware included.
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• 527[05:50:48] <karlpinc> !firmware images
• 528[05:50:48] <dpkg> Unofficial <netinst> and DVD installer images containing non-free Debian firmware packages are available for installing Debian 9 "Stretch". See replaced-url
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• 531[05:51:12] <aloo_shu> wait, why are the usb ports *working* then in the live session?
• 532[05:51:34] <karlpinc> Dunno. Depends what's included in the live image.
• 533[05:51:52] <karlpinc> The install guide has information on firmware too.
• 534[05:52:47] <karlpinc> If it's a live USB stick you'd think they'd put USB drivers onto the image, but that may or may not affect what actually installs.
• 535[05:54:25] <aloo_shu> sad, in a way
• 536[05:55:15] <zegil> c
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• 538[05:55:49] <aloo_shu> 'works live, but not installed' has made me do 'dirty installs' by cloning running live root to partition
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• 540[05:56:08] <karlpinc> aloo_shu: What's wrong with following the installation instructions?
• 541[05:57:42] <aloo_shu> if things that worked live, don't work installed? the fact that they don't work
• 542[05:58:55] <karlpinc> aloo_shu: You can do what you like. Just saying it seems like following the instructions would be simplist and most likely to work.
• 543[05:59:46] <karlpinc> aloo_shu: The question is, how does the live image do an install? It's not really worth finding out.
• 544[05:59:53] <MikeSee> aloo_shu: Yes, everything works as expected with the live instance. Then rebooting and using that same media to run the gui installer results in an installed on which I can't use those same usb keyboard and mouse. Thanks karlpinc, I will check the dmesg and failing that try proper installation media.
• 545[06:00:24] <aloo_shu> I follow installation instructions. If that gives no succes, I make it a tinkering practice. I'm glad that linux is allowing me that
• 546[06:00:28] <karlpinc> MikeSee: There's no problem installing firmware after initial OS installation. It's a matter of finding what you need to install.
• 547[06:00:53] <karlpinc> aloo_shu: Tinkering is fun. And instructive.
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• 549[06:01:21] <agio> aloo_shu: how do you clone the live runnig root? do you copy it to a partition - minus /proc and /sys filesystems?
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• 551[06:04:05] <karlpinc> MikeSee: It may be that the installation instructions tell you how to do an "apt-cache search" for your firmware. IIRC you search for the hardware as reported by dmesg. Maybe. Anyhow I recall having done that before. (And then not knowing exactly what firmware I really need to have. So now I use the unoffical netinstall. Except when moving an installed system to new hardware.... :)
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• 555[06:06:03] <karlpinc> MikeSee: You have to enable the non-free repos too, and run apt-get update or similar.
• 556[06:06:52] <aloo_shu> agio: rsync, yes, preserving what I can, excepting what I need to, then creating missing dirs, bind-mounting stuff, chrooting in, installing grub. making a user may or may not work well, e,g. missing skeleton, so sometimes I end up with keeping the live user, which is 999 and poses different problems
• 557[06:07:15] <aloo_shu> that's roughly where my learning stands
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• 562[06:09:54] <agio> why do you need to chroot into that filesystem - is that just so you know it works - otherwise if you can't chroot in - you know kernel+initram won't be able to mount the system partition?
• 563[06:10:12] <agio> when you re-boot I mean
• 564[06:11:03] <aloo_shu> most convenient to run grub-install from inside
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• 566[06:13:07] <aloo_shu> also, may need root to set user password, live is autologin and password can be unknown
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• 570[06:16:43] <agio> I think I see. so basically while you are running the live USB, you copy the running / paritition to the new harddisk, minus /proc and /sys, bindmount a new /proc and /sys into the new / filetree, chroot into it, run grub-install and set your grub config, then do useradd <new_user> inside the chrooot and re-boot?
• 571[06:17:29] <aloo_shu> oh yeah, and kernel and initrd may need to get put into /boot, possibly update-initramfs run, don't remember how I did it last time
• 572[06:17:35] <agio> and maybe run install-mbr as well?
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• 575[06:18:20] <agio> update-initramfs to recompile initram filesystem?
• 576[06:18:33] <aloo_shu> and it's /dev /proc /sys /run /var/run I except
• 577[06:18:42] <aloo_shu> I think
• 578[06:19:28] <aloo_shu> what does install-mbr (that grub-install does not?)
• 579[06:20:58] <agio> install-mbr writes out the first 440 bytes of the disk (assuming its a BIOS system firmware) you need it if you are using syslinux bootloader. I don't know if GRUB2 needs it
• 580[06:21:20] <agio> i.e. it installs stage 1 of chained bootloader
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• 583[06:22:46] <aloo_shu> ah no, cuz I don't clone the live dvd, I clone the session
• 584[06:23:54] <agio> does your system use BIOS?
• 585[06:23:57] <aloo_shu> I don't inherit live bootloader, I install grub which will take care of the mbr
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• 587[06:24:20] <agio> oh, ok, so grub-install does it for you?
• 588[06:24:32] <aloo_shu> yes, bios, no uefi machines yet
• 589[06:25:02] <aloo_shu> for me, and for the debian installer, too
• 590[06:25:35] <aloo_shu> grub-install is very generous, and does it for *everybody*
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• 594[06:27:37] <aloo_shu> but thanks still, maybe one day, I want to use syslinux on hdd
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• 597[06:28:03] <Furry_Kitty> I want to install php 7.3 on Debian Stretch. But it does not exist in the repos. I found a guide that uses PPAs to install it on Debian. According to that, it uses these,
• 598[06:28:05] <Furry_Kitty> sudo apt install ca-certificates apt-transport-https
• 599[06:28:06] <Furry_Kitty> wget -q replaced-url
• 600[06:28:06] <Furry_Kitty> echo "deb replaced-url
• 601[06:28:47] <Furry_Kitty> Is it ok to do this? I've read on Debian site that Ubuntu PPAs should not be used on Debian. I wonder whether this guide speaks on ubuntu PPA or some other PPA
• 602[06:29:06] <agio> aloo_shu: I think debian installer has a syslinux booter alongside the grub one (the installer itself, I mean not the target install - that will be grub)
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• 604[06:29:11] <Furry_Kitty> replaced-url
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• 606[06:31:11] <aloo_shu> Furry_Kitty: debian has no PPAs. have you checked stretch-backports ?
• 607[06:31:29] <aloo_shu> let's see if I remember this
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• 609[06:31:34] <aloo_shu> ,v php
• 610[06:31:35] <judd> Package: php on amd64 -- stretch: 1:7.0+49; buster: 2:7.3+69; sid: 2:7.3+69
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• 612[06:32:33] <aloo_shu> hmm, would it mention backports if they existed?
• 613[06:33:31] <aloo_shu> you could make sure with debian pkg search on the web interface
• 614[06:33:41] <aloo_shu> ,p php
• 615[06:33:53] <aloo_shu> ,pkg php
• 616[06:34:01] <aloo_shu> hmm
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• 627[06:47:57] <zhangj> I want to be a debian contributor, but I don't know how to start learning
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• 635[06:53:57] <zegil> zhangj: Start learning what? How to code or how to become an actual contributer?
• 636[06:54:12] <zegil> There's many ways one can contribute to a project, not just through coding though
• 637[06:54:42] <zhangj> How to become a DM
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• 639[06:55:42] <zhangj> I have a certain Java programming foundation, and the foundation of LIUNX.
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• 641[06:57:59] <zhangj> But I don't know much about the specifications of the debian community and the process of uploading the repository.
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• 657[07:11:42] <foul_owl> Is there a netinst with the non free firmware?
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• 661[07:16:56] <aloo_shu> foul_owl: wait, that was
• 662[07:17:11] <aloo_shu> !firmware images
• 663[07:17:11] <dpkg> Unofficial <netinst> and DVD installer images containing non-free Debian firmware packages are available for installing Debian 9 "Stretch". See replaced-url
• 664[07:17:19] <aloo_shu> \o/
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• 672[07:25:45] <zegil> zhangj: Yeah I don't know either. There's probably some good info on debian.org or the wiki or even some reddit threads
• 673[07:26:05] <zegil> I know you have to apply to become a contributer though
• 674[07:26:13] <zegil> For contributing packages that is
• 675[07:26:30] <foul_owl> Unfortunately that didn't help
• 676[07:26:40] <foul_owl> Trying to install with a broadcom wifi card
• 677[07:26:42] <foul_owl> failed with error -95
• 678[07:26:50] <zhangj> @zegil Thank you, let me know about this information.
• 679[07:26:50] <foul_owl> replaced-url
• 680[07:27:14] <foul_owl> 5 years later, this card is still not supported?
• 681[07:27:20] <zegil> foul_owl, yeah unfortunately broadcom requires more than just a simple firmware install.
• 682[07:27:29] <foul_owl> Ahhh gotcha
• 683[07:27:45] <zegil> fowl_owl, the normal installer should normally pick up devices and ask if non-free firmware can be installed
• 684[07:27:58] <zegil> foul_owl, are you on a mac?
• 685[07:27:58] <foul_owl> I used the nonfree netinst
• 686[07:28:07] <foul_owl> Not on a mac
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• 688[07:28:25] <foul_owl> lsmod shows the module loaded, but dmesg shows that -95 error
• 689[07:28:46] <zegil> foul_owl, okay well can you connect internet any other way to the device for an install? Like ethernet
• 690[07:29:07] <foul_owl> I think I can set up a laptop with a bridged connection
• 691[07:30:21] <foul_owl> That is the only option? COuldn't the installer be repacked with "b43-fwcutter firmware-b43-installer" ?
• 692[07:31:00] <zegil> foul_owl, are you sure those files are on the repos/will they work for broadcom?
• 693[07:31:18] <foul_owl> Not exactly sure, I was just reading that particular workaround
• 694[07:31:29] <foul_owl> I don't know exactly what the package is for the fix here
• 695[07:31:53] <zegil> foul_owl well I managed to get broadcom working awhile ago on a mac
• 696[07:32:11] <zegil> I would not recommend it, it's a shitty wifi card
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• 698[07:32:23] <zegil> Okay those drivers are on the debian repos
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• 700[07:32:39] <aloo_shu> you could possibly have the right .deb pkgs around, do an expert install, get a shell and install them
• 701[07:33:01] <aloo_shu> then continue
• 702[07:33:16] <aloo_shu> (not tried myself)
• 703[07:34:50] <zegil> foul_owl: this is tutorial I used to make broadcom work - replaced-url
• 704[07:35:20] <zegil> foul_owl, I recommend just buying a solid wifi card. Preferably one that works with free software if you can
• 705[07:35:29] <zegil> like, usb wifi card
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• 708[07:37:35] <zegil> foul_owl, it can seriously be a headache to try and get these drivers working + I found broadcom buggy with dropouts on networks
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• 720[07:44:10] <aloo_shu> having a decent ext. wifi card around can't hurt, but obstacles are for overcoming, and if already some linux martyrs have spilled their brains on reverse-engineering the darn bcm cards, then why not honor their work by trying to use it?
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• 725[07:49:15] <aloo_shu> general approach with wifi cards not working would be lsusb -> note product & vendor id -> find out product -> find out chipset, search solutions with this info, preferrably solutions from your distro
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• 881[09:32:22] <tdn> One of my machines has suddenly begun showing fortune coookies/quotes every time I login via SSH. But I do not recall having configured that. How do I disable this?
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• 892[09:36:03] <jelly> tdn: were any fortune related packaged installed recently?
• 893[09:36:17] <jelly> packages*
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• 901[09:43:09] <tdn> jelly, how do I check if they were installed recently?
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• 903[09:43:37] <tdn> jelly, dpkg -l |grep fortune gives me: fortune-mod and fortunes-min
• 904[09:43:43] <mebus> Does somebody have ideas on this dependency problem: replaced-url
• 905[09:43:49] <jelly> tdn: look at dpkg and apt logs under /var/log
• 906[09:44:05] <tdn> jelly, does just having them installed mean I get the motd/fortune ?
• 907[09:44:41] <jelly> tdn: I'm not sure, but presumably if there's such integration it's in those packages
• 908[09:44:50] <jelly> ,v mailman3-full
• 909[09:44:51] <judd> Package: mailman3-full on amd64 -- stretch-backports: 3.2.0-4~bpo9+1; sid: 3.2.0-4; buster: 3.2.1-1
• 910[09:45:06] <jelly> mebus: which debian release is this?
• 911[09:45:21] <mebus> 9.8
• 912[09:45:24] <mebus> stretch
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• 914[09:46:22] <tdn> jelly, found this in dpkg.log: replaced-url
• 915[09:46:35] <jelly> mebus: then you probably want to read instructions on how to install packages from stretch-backports, replaced-url
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• 917[09:47:12] <mebus> *hrmpf* ok
• 918[09:47:23] <tdn> jelly, but I am fairly sure this has not been like that for a whole month.
• 919[09:48:36] <jelly> that is weird yes
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• 938[09:59:44] <tdn> jelly, where is this behavior configured.
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• 946[10:03:39] <tdn> I guess I'll just unstall the fortune* packages
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• 1045[11:06:12] <kreyren> how do i make apt to not change my grub?
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• 1050[11:11:01] <blackflow> kreyren: ?
• 1051[11:11:48] <kreyren> i've invoked aptfu and it updated my grub.cfg replaced-url
• 1052[11:12:54] <blackflow> kreyren: yes, it's managed by package and updates on postinst hooks. if you want to modify your grub.cfg you'd have to do it differently, through proper grub configuration.
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• 1054[11:13:11] <blackflow> /etc/defaults/grub and /etc/grub.d/
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• 1056[11:13:23] <blackflow> *default
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• 1075[11:24:10] <jelly> ,v aptfu
• 1076[11:24:11] <judd> No package named 'aptfu' was found in amd64.
• 1077[11:24:32] <jelly> kreyren: what's aptfu? an alias?
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• 1081[11:26:30] <GigaFlow> guys, can somebody helps me with zoneminder?
• 1082[11:26:47] <towo^work> no one knows
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• 1090[11:30:06] <blackflow> jelly: apt fu, like google fu
• 1091[11:30:27] <blackflow> I'm guessing, I mean I don't.... I don't.... I don't know. Could be anything.
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• 1098[11:33:08] <jelly> alias afu="sudo apt full-upgrade"
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• 1171[12:28:05] <tsglove> Sounds like sneezing. Aaaapt FU!
• 1172[12:28:21] <ozyTR> tsglove, =)
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• 1181[12:34:49] <anzipex> How can i mount dd img that i created from micro_sd (ext4)?
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• 1185[12:36:42] <towo^work> anzipex, replaced-url
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• 1207[12:47:06] <anzipex> Disk maps-mapzen.img doesn't contain a valid partition table
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• 1209[12:48:16] <anzipex> How to find start sectors?
• 1210[12:48:24] <anzipex> 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 7616 cylinders, total 122355712 sectors
• 1211[12:50:19] <towo^work> how that image was made? (the exact command please)
• 1212[12:52:02] <anzipex> sudo pv -tpreb /dev/sdb1 | dd of=maps-mapzen.img bs=4M conv=notrunc,noerror
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• 1218[12:54:08] <towo^work> anzipex, that's wrong
• 1219[12:54:18] <towo^work> you have to use the divice, not tha partition
• 1220[12:54:49] <towo^work> you have made an image of the partition
• 1221[12:55:19] <towo^work> maybe it should be mountable without any offset, never tryed
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• 1223[12:56:18] <anzipex> towo^work, yeah mounted without offset and it works
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• 1225[12:56:49] <anzipex> Now I need to make the right dd image
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• 1229[12:57:53] <anzipex> towo^work, It should be /dev/sdb instead of /dev/sdb1?
• 1230[12:58:05] <towo^work> yes
• 1231[12:58:11] <anzipex> Ok, thanks
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• 1239[13:03:17] <anzipex> towo^work, can i rename micro_sd card name without formating? I mean i need to rename label of micro_sd
• 1240[13:03:31] <towo^work> sure
• 1241[13:03:45] <anzipex> How to do that right?
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• 1243[13:04:05] <anzipex> I found this:
• 1244[13:04:08] <anzipex> sudo mlabel -i /dev/mmcblk0 ::{label}
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• 1246[13:04:23] <anzipex> But "You might need to format it before you can label it"
• 1247[13:04:44] <towo^work> anzipex, hav you read the manpage for mlabel?
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• 1249[13:06:00] <anzipex> No
• 1250[13:06:03] <towo^work> anzipex, you should really use e2label or tune2fs
• 1251[13:06:26] <towo^work> or is the fs vfat or ntfs?
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• 1255[13:07:09] <towo^work> anzipex, you can even use gparted for relabeling
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• 1260[13:09:05] <zoomm10> why we have to label a devices?
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• 1262[13:09:30] <anzipex> It's ext4 filesystem data
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• 1281[13:15:58] <anzipex> towo^work, thanks i've done it with tune2fs
• 1282[13:16:08] <Ede|Popede> anzipex: i didn't label my partitions. now the "smart" gui filemanager shows me all of them just by size in the sidebar. and they all have the same size, so...
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• 1284[13:16:29] <Ede|Popede> but i don't use those tools anyway, so i simply don't care.
• 1285[13:17:15] <jelly> zoomm10: you don't, but it's easier to figure out what "home" is than what "bdcdbf53-130c-4471-ac0a-cadacf230382" is
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• 1289[13:19:59] <zoomm10> jelly: where did you find the "bdcdbf53-130c-4471-ac0a-cadacf230382"?
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• 1292[13:20:29] <anzipex> Yeah, my previos label of micro_sd was a5f8f640-83a0-4a6b-aa7d-8965fa940b9d
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• 1295[13:21:44] <anzipex> Such a mess
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• 1299[13:23:16] <jelly> zoomm10: uuid is a property of each filesystem. Look at /etc/fstab as generated by debian installer, or "blkid" output.
• 1300[13:23:17] <Ede|Popede> zoomm10: there are symlinks in /dev/disk/by-uuid or if you use `file -s` against a device file which represents a partition
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• 1314[13:31:30] <zoomm10> jelly, EdejPopede: so, is a detail about specific devices and we used mostly in /etc/fstab, correct?
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• 1327[13:36:53] <ali_momen> Hi all
• 1328[13:37:37] <jelly> zoomm10: it's not bound to a device. It's a property of the filesystem.
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• 1330[13:38:23] <jelly> label is a property of the filesystem, too
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• 1361[14:01:32] <Ede|Popede> blkid just helped me find 2 lost partitions. kept them back for the final install, i think i'll wait for... next debian now. ignored them during install. but they still have a part-uuid. where does *this one* come from?
• 1362[14:02:31] <jelly> where were they, fell behind the sofa?
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• 1365[14:05:17] <Ede|Popede> kind of. weren't put into fstab during install and i didn't care anymore about that disk.
• 1366[14:06:08] <Ede|Popede> would be good to have a comment on unused partitions and maybe also unused disk space there
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• 1369[14:11:12] <jelly> if they have an uuid they're at the very least formatted with something
• 1370[14:11:18] <Ede|Popede> and the UUIDs are of the form '5f9dd1e2-01', same for one of the external. the data disk part-uuid has a normal uuid format. is there any system in this?
• 1371[14:11:39] <Ede|Popede> partuuid, jelly. and they both are empty.
• 1372[14:13:00] <jelly> I have no idea what that is or where it comes from
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• 1381[14:19:04] <Ede|Popede> the first partitions there even have a partlabel and gdisk's manpage doesn't mention neither.
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• 1384[14:22:31] <jelly> !qotd0
• 1385[14:22:31] <dpkg> <gribouille> I've already read the manuals
• 1386[14:23:39] <Greyztar> when will buster get stable or where may i read about it?
• 1387[14:23:54] <greycat> A few months, probably.
• 1388[14:24:18] <greycat> !buster freeze
• 1389[14:24:19] <dpkg> Buster will start the freeze process on 2019-01-12 see replaced-url
• 1390[14:24:36] <Greyztar> greycat: thanks
• 1391[14:24:46] <greycat> Full Freeze(tm) is supposed to start tomorrow. After that, release happens whenever there are no more release-critical bugs.
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• 1393[14:26:59] <karlpinc> Greyztar: When the green line gets close to 0 a new stable is released. replaced-url
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• 1397[14:27:53] <Greyztar> karlpinc: thank you also (,")
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• 1401[14:29:47] <jelly> it does feel chilly here
• 1402[14:30:34] <blackflow> WorksForMe(tm) + Frozen(tm) = PushedToProductionWithFingersCrossed(tm)
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• 1406[14:34:17] <karlpinc> the cold wind of deadline
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• 1413[14:35:27] <jelly> there is no deadline
• 1414[14:35:39] <karlpinc> jelly: Freeze is a deadline.
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• 1494[15:28:29] <jasonwc> Hello all, I'm receiving a "Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender" from one of my servers at the same time every day, but it's not clear from syslog what is sending the messages. I receive emails from a number of services so I'm not sure why this particular message is undeliverable. I don't see anything in /var/log/mail.err and nothing relevant in mail.info.
• 1495[15:28:56] <jasonwc> I would like to figure out what is causing the issue so I can either fix it or stop the messages.
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• 1497[15:29:08] <greycat> If you know what time it's happening every day, then just find whatever cron job runs then.
• 1498[15:29:40] <jelly> jasonwc: which mail-transfer-agent is running there? Look at /var/log/mail.log for complete logs, those .err and .info are almost useless.
• 1499[15:29:44] <jasonwc> that's the problem - there are a bunch of cron jobs that run at that time.
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• 1502[15:30:50] <jelly> a NDR like that will have been sent ater multiple retries, usually 5 days after a message had been put into the queue
• 1503[15:31:28] <jasonwc> Actually, not as bad as I thought. syslog shows only two entries at the time the message was sent
• 1504[15:31:29] <jasonwc> replaced-url
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• 1506[15:31:57] <jasonwc> However, rtcheck runs every ~15 minutes and anacron every hour
• 1507[15:32:17] <jasonwc> but these messages only come once a day, always at the same time (well, it changed from 12:40 to 1:40 when DST started)
• 1508[15:33:00] <jasonwc> jelly, I'm using exim4
• 1509[15:33:27] <jelly> jasonwc: then you're looking at wrong logs, /var/log/exim4/mainlog is the place to start
• 1510[15:33:30] <jasonwc> jelly, mail.log seems similarly useless - replaced-url
• 1511[15:33:34] <jasonwc> oh, haha
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• 1513[15:34:54] <jasonwc> ah, well this might explain something
• 1514[15:34:57] <jasonwc> 2019-03-11 01:40:34 1h3Dfu-0006CK-QX H=gmail-smtp-msa.l.google.com [2607:f8b0:400d:c09::6d] Network is unreachable
• 1515[15:35:14] <jasonwc> I'm not using IPv6 on this system (ISP only does IPv4)
• 1516[15:37:17] <jasonwc> or it could be this - 2019-03-11 01:40:34 1h3Dfu-0006CH-OS ** jwittlincohen@gmail.com R=smarthost T=remote_smtp_smarthost: message is too big (transport limit = 1)
• 1517[15:37:53] <jasonwc> full error log from that time - replaced-url
• 1518[15:38:05] <jasonwc> My resolv.conf does not show an IPV6 DNS address
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• 1529[15:47:13] <jelly> jasonwc: do you have an ipv6 default route present on that system (or was it there at boot / exim4 start time)
• 1530[15:47:41] <jelly> jasonwc: if not, then exim4 _probably_ should not try to connect to MX on ipv6
• 1531[15:47:56] <jasonwc> Yeah, I had one in the past but no longer
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• 1533[15:48:29] <jelly> jasonwc: go back 5 days in the logs and find first instance of queue id 1h3Dfu-0006CK-QX to see where the message came from
• 1534[15:48:46] <jasonwc> And when I say in the past, I mean many months ago
• 1535[15:48:48] <jasonwc> ok
• 1536[15:49:33] <jelly> a hammer: disable ipv6 completely
• 1537[15:49:43] <jelly> !noipv6
• 1538[15:49:43] <dpkg> From Debian 6.0 "Squeeze" onwards, <IPv6> is built into the Linux kernel (excluding the loongson-2f flavour). To disable IPv6, add the kernel command line option ipv6.disable=1 to your bootloader.
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• 1543[15:51:55] <jelly> add to GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX in /etc/default/grub and run update-grub, if that's the bootloader
• 1544[15:52:29] <jasonwc> jelly, If I go back 5 days, I see a similar error but no match for 1h3Dfu-0006CK-QX
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• 1547[15:52:37] <jasonwc> jelly, replaced-url
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• 1550[15:53:09] <jasonwc> jelly, From that error log, is it clear whether the error is ipv6 related or that the message is too large?
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• 1553[15:53:26] <jelly> finger the first instance of 1h3Dfu-0006CK-QX whenever, then
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• 1559[15:54:30] <jelly> s/finger/find/
• 1560[15:55:12] <jasonwc> jelly, the first instance was today's log. I went back to the log from 3/1, which is the last available without checking snapshots.
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• 1566[15:57:02] <jelly> jasonwc: surely you have compressed logs from days before present on disk without having to look at snapshots at all?
• 1567[15:57:09] <jelly> jasonwc: ls -al /var/log/exim4/mainlog*
• 1568[15:57:29] <jasonwc> jelly, yeah, I went from mainlog to mainlog.10.gz
• 1569[15:57:35] <jasonwc> that spans 3/1 to 3/11
• 1570[15:57:36] <jelly> zfgrep 1h3Dfu-0006CK-QX /var/log/exim4/mainlog*
• 1571[15:57:42] <jelly> alright then
• 1572[15:58:01] <jasonwc> I'm saying I can go further back via snapshots
• 1573[15:58:17] <jasonwc> jelly, that command just shows the 3/11 log
• 1574[15:59:03] <jelly> I guess it means it was created today then.
• 1575[15:59:08] <jasonwc> just want to confirm ipv6.disable=1 goes in GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX not GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT
• 1576[15:59:10] <jasonwc> I have this now
• 1577[15:59:11] <jasonwc> GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="apparmor=1 security=apparmor"
• 1578[15:59:12] <jasonwc> GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX="ipv6.disable=1"
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• 1583[16:01:56] <NetTerminalGene> buster full freezes tomorrow
• 1584[16:02:10] <babilen5> *brrr*
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• 1586[16:02:49] <Ticho_> someone forgot to pay the heating bill?
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• 1601[16:10:15] <jelly> jasonwc: _DEFAULT stuff only gets applied to the latest kernel, ..._LINUX gets applied to all kernels, so if by some chance you need to boot an older kernel and those boot options are important to you, consider moving them down
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• 1603[16:11:48] <jasonwc> ah, I didn't realize that, thanks
• 1604[16:12:35] <jasonwc> jelly, I updated grub and I'm doing a kexec restart to see if disabling ipv6 resolves the issue. Thanks!
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• 1608[16:13:49] <jasonwc> jelly, Ok, it rebooted. Any way to verify the change was applied?
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• 1613[16:17:44] <jasonwc> [ 0.000000] Command line: BOOT_IMAGE=/ROOT/debian@/boot/vmlinuz-4.9.0-8-amd64 root=ZFS=rpool-server/ROOT/debian ro apparmor=1 security=apparmor
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• 1615[16:18:12] <jasonwc> doesn't seem like it applied it. Do I need to either use the _LINUX or the _LINUX_DEFAULT line, but not both?
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• 1622[16:21:26] <karlpinc> jasonwc: You have to do an "update-grub" before reboot.
• 1623[16:21:59] <jasonwc> I did
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• 1625[16:22:52] <jasonwc> grub.cfg shows " linux /ROOT/debian@/boot/vmlinuz-4.9.0-8-amd64 root=ZFS=rpool-server/ROOT/debian ro apparmor=1 security=apparmor ipv6.disable=1
• 1626[16:22:52] <jasonwc> "
• 1627[16:22:54] <karlpinc> jasonwc: Don't the logs give the kernel command line used? (I forget)
• 1628[16:23:08] <jasonwc> so, it updated the grub config file
• 1629[16:23:13] <karlpinc> jasonwc: syslog
• 1630[16:23:50] <armin> jasonwc: where is that grub cmdline coming from? did you purposefully disable ipv6 or is that somewhere upstream actually?
• 1631[16:24:06] <karlpinc> armin: He purposefully disabled it.
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• 1633[16:24:12] <armin> phew.
• 1634[16:24:36] <jasonwc> so, syslog shows the same as dmesg
• 1635[16:24:45] <jasonwc> Mar 11 11:20:58 storage-server kernel: [ 0.000000] Command line: BOOT_IMAGE=/ROOT/debian@/boot/vmlinuz-4.9.0-8-amd64 root=ZFS=rpool-server/ROOT/debian ro apparmor=1 security=apparmor
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• 1639[16:25:23] <jasonwc> But, as you can see, the ipv6.disable=1 was added to the grub.cfg file
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• 1641[16:25:37] <karlpinc> jasonwc: Are you booting with grub? Is grub reading the right grub config file? Those are the things that come to mind.
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• 1643[16:25:50] <jasonwc> oh, duh. I did a kexec boot. I need to do a real reboot.
• 1644[16:26:11] <jasonwc> It wouldn't read grub on a kexec reboot, presumably
• 1645[16:26:18] <colo-work> it wouldn't.
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• 1663[16:32:42] <jasonwc> there we go, [ 0.000000] Command line: BOOT_IMAGE=/ROOT/debian@/boot/vmlinuz-4.9.0-8-amd64 root=ZFS=rpool-server/ROOT/debian ro apparmor=1 security=apparmor ipv6.disable=1
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• 1670[16:36:57] <Deihmos> I setup unattended updates last night but having trouble understanding listchanges
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• 1677[16:39:37] <Deihmos> anyone use it? how do you get the listed changes?
• 1678[16:40:30] <ksk> apt-listchanges is a package which mails you the changes.
• 1679[16:40:35] <ksk> not sure what you are asking for :)
• 1680[16:41:13] <ksk> mhm or not, but there is one
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• 1682[16:41:40] <ksk> check it out :P
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• 1684[16:42:06] <areyouloco> !dpkg apt-listchanges
• 1685[16:42:06] <dpkg> apt-listchanges is a tool that displays NEWS.Debian file contents (default) and/or the changelogs of Debian packages before upgrading them (dpkg-reconfigure apt-listchanges). It is recommended for users of stable to install the apt-listchanges package, to see what is happening to their systems as security fixes are applied; it should be made _mandatory_ for users of testing and unstable. Also ask me about <d-d-a>, <apt-listbugs>.
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• 1693[16:45:02] <Deihmos> i have it just can't find decent instructions on how to use it
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• 1706[16:50:36] <Deihmos> how are the notifications delivered? the config says delivered to root but how?
• 1707[16:50:42] <Deihmos> is it a message when i login?
• 1708[16:51:14] *** Quits: Brain (~brain@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
• 1709[16:51:26] <somiaj> I think they are emailed to root
• 1710[16:51:28] <greycat> 11:40 ksk> apt-listchanges is a package which mails you the changes.
• 1711[16:51:49] <greycat> So, they should be emailed to whatever mailbox root is aliased to.
• 1712[16:53:50] <Deihmos> what do you mean by email? i don't have any email setup
• 1713[16:54:00] *** Parts: diogenes_ (~diogenes_@replaced-ip) ("vergissmeinnicht")
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• 1717[16:54:55] <greycat> apt-listchanges "Suggests" mail-transport-agent
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• 1720[16:55:29] <somiaj> most systems have an MTA exim4 setup by default for local emails
• 1721[16:55:43] *** Quits: Old_Dog (~Old_Dog@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 1722[16:55:50] <greycat> Deihmos: are there any files in /var/mail/ ?
• 1723[16:56:01] *** Joins: Old_Dog (~Old_Dog@replaced-ip)
• 1724[16:56:43] <Deihmos> no empty folder
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• 1726[16:57:26] <greycat> Well, install an MTA, or learn how to use the one that's already installed, or at the very least, check whether one is already installed.
• 1727[16:58:48] *** Quits: paule32 (~paul@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
• 1728[16:59:10] <jasonwc> somiaj, If you setup a mail agent, you can have the messages forwarded to your email address. I receive those updates in gmail.
• 1729[16:59:22] <greycat> If exim4-config is already installed, then "dpkg-reconfigure exim4-config" should launch the basic dialog for setting up email.
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• 1731[16:59:53] <somiaj> sure, there are lots of thinsg you can setup your MTA to do, and what is possible partly depends on what your ISP allows.
• 1732[17:00:10] <jasonwc> somiaj, here's an example message - replaced-url
• 1733[17:00:16] <Deihmos> i don't want to receive an email. would like to just see on demand what was updated
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• 1736[17:00:37] <somiaj> I think I have my exim setup to forward messages through my gmail too, though I have to use smtps due to my isp blocking port 25.
• 1737[17:00:50] <jasonwc> Deihmos, /var/log/apt/history.log will show you unattended-update updates
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• 1740[17:01:00] <somiaj> Deihmos: local email is a common way to communicate on a machine, and lots of things use it, you may as well get use to it.
• 1741[17:01:02] <Deihmos> ok cool
• 1742[17:01:06] <jasonwc> Deihmos, replaced-url
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• 1751[17:02:51] <Haohmaru> "stretch" is still the "stable" version, right?
• 1752[17:03:04] <greycat> yes
• 1753[17:03:12] <karlpinc> Deihmos: On demand, you can read your email locally.
• 1754[17:03:45] <Haohmaru> greycat but the newer version is gonna be coming soon-ish, isn't it?
• 1755[17:04:04] <jasonwc> hard freeze starts tomorrow
• 1756[17:04:21] <Haohmaru> is that a yes or a no?
• 1757[17:04:30] <jelly> Haohmaru: "probably this year"
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• 1764[17:06:29] <Deihmos> You can read email from terminal ?
• 1765[17:06:43] <greycat> yes
• 1766[17:06:43] <mawk> yes
• 1767[17:06:46] <mawk> guess the command name
• 1768[17:06:53] * greycat guesses "mutt"
• 1769[17:06:57] <Haohmaru> kewl
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• 1773[17:07:57] <greycat> you can also just use less "$MAIL" if you wish
• 1774[17:08:20] <greycat> assuming you're still using Debian's default mbox format
• 1775[17:08:34] <friendofafriend> mutt's super rad.
• 1776[17:08:36] <greycat> (and if you don't know what that means, then you are)
• 1777[17:09:38] <jasonwc> Haohmaru, You can look at past releases but a full release generally comes within 6 months of the hard freeze. You can also look at the number of outstanding RC bugs. There were around 350 last I checked and the goal is to get that to near zero.
• 1778[17:09:52] <jasonwc> Haohmaru, replaced-url
• 1779[17:10:03] <jasonwc> Debian has no formal release cycle. It releases when it's "ready"
• 1780[17:10:37] <Haohmaru> k, so it's "soon-ish" then
• 1781[17:10:44] <jasonwc> Stretch was in hard freeze for ~4 months
• 1782[17:10:44] <Haohmaru> thankz
• 1783[17:10:50] <jasonwc> Yes, soon-ish :)
• 1784[17:11:00] <Haohmaru> with a few more ish-ez
• 1785[17:11:01] <karlpinc> Haohmaru: When the green line gets close to 0 there is a new release. replaced-url
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• 1788[17:11:39] <Haohmaru> noice
• 1789[17:11:45] <Haohmaru> gotta fly
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• 1796[17:13:16] <ussie> hi :)
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• 1799[17:14:30] <ussie> i use debian and i don't use any other distro so I am not sure if it is debian problem or normal system behavior
• 1800[17:15:11] <ksk> go ahead and ask your question ussie.
• 1801[17:15:36] <ussie> if I want turn two network interfaces and use dhcp on both, everytime after command "dhclient second" first one breaks
• 1802[17:16:11] <greycat> Each one is probably setting the default gateway. Your system can only have ONE default gateway.
• 1803[17:16:34] <ussie> very close ;)
• 1804[17:16:42] <ussie> but second one is inside a namespace
• 1805[17:17:38] <ksk> how does breakage of the first interface look like?
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• 1808[17:18:19] <ussie> ksk - ip is set, route is set, curl doesn't work, dhclient says that file exists, dhclient enp0s3 -r does a job
• 1809[17:18:27] *** Parts: bltzfsck (~bill@replaced-ip) ()
• 1810[17:18:36] <ussie> and second problem maybe related
• 1811[17:19:06] <ksk> If IP and route are set correctly, how does curl not work? Id try to figure that out.
• 1812[17:19:27] <ksk> not sure about network namespaces though, have not yet been playing with them.
• 1813[17:19:39] <ussie> today I created second namespace for third interface and after I turned on third interface, /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward got reseted to 0 in first namespace
• 1814[17:19:57] <ussie> i think there is something what is shared :)
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• 1817[17:20:06] <ksk> ip
• 1818[17:20:18] <ksk> *ip_forward might be not namespaced at this point (I dont know)
• 1819[17:20:31] <ussie> is namespaced I checked it
• 1820[17:20:35] <ksk> k
• 1821[17:20:53] <ussie> ksk - you asked me, how does curl not work
• 1822[17:21:10] <ussie> well i don't know - just one long freeze
• 1823[17:21:14] <ussie> ping the same
• 1824[17:21:35] <ussie> i have to dhclient -r enp0s7 && dhclient enp0s7 and it is back
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• 1827[17:22:58] <mawk> isn't ip_forward legacy anyway ?
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• 1829[17:23:09] <mawk> you have /proc/sys/net/ipv4/conf/$IFACE/forwarding
• 1830[17:23:15] <mawk> and that's obviously namespaced
• 1831[17:23:32] <ussie> mawk - thanks, I'll change it ;)
• 1832[17:23:59] <ussie> configuring many interfaces is a nightmare
• 1833[17:24:08] <mawk> I do not agree
• 1834[17:24:12] <mawk> everything goes smoothly when I do it
• 1835[17:24:18] <mawk> you just have to be careful
• 1836[17:24:24] <mawk> do it in incremental changes that each work
• 1837[17:24:24] <ussie> from files probably yes
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• 1839[17:24:30] <ussie> but I do it via command line
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• 1842[17:24:32] <mawk> me too
• 1843[17:24:48] <ussie> dhclient is problematic I think
• 1844[17:24:52] <mawk> yes
• 1845[17:24:53] <ussie> or I don't know how to use it :D
• 1846[17:24:57] <mawk> dhclient messes with your interface a bit
• 1847[17:25:03] <mawk> it can remove addresses, change configuration, etc
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• 1850[17:25:07] <mawk> it's annoying
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• 1852[17:25:58] <ussie> helpfully dhclient in the namespace works fine
• 1853[17:26:08] *** Joins: noodlepie (~Phillip@replaced-ip)
• 1854[17:26:41] <ussie> but I have to fight to keep main wired interface working
• 1855[17:27:11] <ussie> anything better than dhclient?
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• 1857[17:27:26] <ussie> maybe I should try static connection
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• 1860[17:28:17] <f-a> I would like to annotate a pdf (write something over it). As now I just import it w/ gimp and write over it. Is there a more appropriate program?
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• 1872[17:30:46] <ussie> another question ;)
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• 1875[17:31:49] <ussie> I would love to make my debian much more lightweight
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• 1877[17:32:28] <ussie> it is 71MB with my window manager after login
• 1878[17:32:38] <ussie> memory of course
• 1879[17:32:47] <ussie> but 700 MB on disk
• 1880[17:33:08] <ksk> install a browser, you can double that easily ;)
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• 1882[17:33:27] <ussie> yea, I love firefox :D 2 minutesa after boot - 2GB :D
• 1883[17:33:37] <ussie> it is possible to change something like apt settings? to much libs
• 1884[17:33:40] *** Joins: zz_phar6oor (~phar6oor@replaced-ip)
• 1885[17:34:07] <f-a> ussie: maybe try differend window managers/DE
• 1886[17:34:11] <f-a> *different
• 1887[17:34:23] <f-a> some browser are lighter (dillo, qupzilla, etc.)
• 1888[17:34:30] <ksk> ussie: you can tell apt-get to "--no-install-recommends"
• 1889[17:34:43] <ussie> i turned off suggestions and recommended
• 1890[17:34:53] <ksk> which will disble some features in some programs though, because they would depend on the recommends.
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• 1893[17:35:26] <ksk> apart from that no, dependencies are not to foo with.
• 1894[17:35:31] <ussie> one year aga I had 19MB memory usage after wm started
• 1895[17:35:45] <ussie> and 300MB on disk
• 1896[17:35:51] <ussie> huge difference
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• 1898[17:36:09] <ksk> building everything yourself with less features enabled could help, but you wold totally leave the debian world and have ussie-linux ;)
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• 1900[17:36:22] <ussie> lol true
• 1901[17:36:47] <ussie> i like tiny core linux idea ;)
• 1902[17:36:59] <ussie> but I love debian :D
• 1903[17:37:19] *** Quits: envil_ (~envil@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 1904[17:37:25] <ussie> I have tried slackware and arch - nightmare
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• 1906[17:37:50] <de-facto> maybe look on how docker images try to squeeze out every bit on their images...
• 1907[17:38:12] <de-facto> seems to be one common for those
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• 1909[17:38:33] <ussie> isn't it the same as lxc templates?
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• 1913[17:39:39] <de-facto> or you can try to slim down a debootstrap as much as possible
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• 1915[17:40:10] <ussie> debootstrap?
• 1916[17:40:41] <ussie> reading about it now
• 1917[17:40:42] <ussie> thanks
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• 1921[17:41:43] <ussie> it is funny when you think your system is great and tiny and you want only one app more. Apt install and you see - "to download 750MB [y/n]" lol
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• 1926[17:45:04] <ksk> debootstrap --variant minbase is the smalles thingy you can get iirc, but see the manpage on variants.
• 1927[17:45:38] <mawk> yeah
• 1928[17:45:46] <ksk> apt should kind of tell you why this app will need that mouch spaces (see packages being pulled in due to deps)
• 1929[17:45:47] <mawk> it's around 80MiB last time I checked
• 1930[17:45:52] <mawk> for minbase + some stuff I found essential
• 1931[17:46:09] <mawk> usually it does that when I get a gnome program while I'm on KDE or vice-versa, ksk
• 1932[17:46:13] <ksk> yeah, kind of goofy not to have pingutils etc in a container..
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• 1940[17:48:11] <de-facto> its great to have a toybox like systemd-nspawn to play around with debootstrap
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• 2012[18:18:54] <ksk> did you just state something positive about systemd? :p
• 2013[18:19:03] <mawk> nspawn is great
• 2014[18:19:18] <mawk> I think I'm the one that gave you the trick actually de-facto no ?
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• 2017[18:19:20] <mawk> your nick is familiar to me
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• 2020[18:19:28] <mawk> and I preach the good word of nspawn to everyone
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• 2024[18:20:51] <ksk> chrchr. Did you see the portable services they introduced? also interesting..
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• 2026[18:21:06] <ksk> (replaced-url
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• 2029[18:21:15] <ksk> ,v systemd
• 2030[18:21:16] <judd> Package: systemd on amd64 -- wheezy: 44-11+deb7u4; wheezy-security: 44-11+deb7u5; jessie: 215-17+deb8u7; jessie-backports: 230-7~bpo8+2; stretch: 232-25+deb9u8; stretch-proposed-updates: 232-25+deb9u9; stretch-security: 232-25+deb9u9; sid: 240-5; stretch-backports: 241-1~bpo9+1; buster: 241-1
• 2031[18:21:27] <mawk> nice
• 2032[18:21:35] <ksk> buster will have it (systemd 239+)
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• 2036[18:22:15] <ksk> kind of a docker without the bloated ecosystem.
• 2037[18:24:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1561
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• 2043[18:25:42] <blackflow> systemd already does "kind of a docker", with nspawn. portable services only exposes containerized services as if they were host-side
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• 2045[18:25:53] <blackflow> "only". it's a good feature.
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• 2047[18:26:16] <mawk> yeah we were discussing nspawn earlier
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• 2050[18:26:39] <Phizzy> I've reset our communal PC back to Debian stable - after testing unstable on it for a bit; stable looks more like what we need - the users here just run Chrome and think it's some fancy windows theme - when I expained GNU/Linux is Free Software and is all fun, free stuff to run on any computer, they were amazed at how much useful work the system incorporates
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• 2054[18:27:50] <ksk> noodlepie: stable is totally the recommended way to run debian :)
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• 2066[18:32:03] <noodlepie> Yeah, I use Gentoo on my 8-thread quad core i7/Core2 laptop - due to the extra processing power in the CPU, I have built the whole system I am running, including the kernel (v5.0.1) and all the libraries, from Gentoo source packages - it "just worx" and is highly configuratble too!. I will still use Debian on older hardware where the packages are pre-built
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• 2069[18:33:46] <whislock> Debian also "just works," without spending a ton of time compiling.
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• 2073[18:34:45] <greycat> It "just works" because of the hours upon hours upon hours of testing that Debian users do during the unstable/testing cycle, as well as after release.
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• 2076[18:35:10] <greycat> This in turn is made possible because the packages, once frozen, become a stationary target instead of a moving target.
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• 2099[18:52:13] <noodlepie> I like how up to date the Gentoo packages are, Debian, due to testing phase, takes longer to release up to date packages
• 2100[18:52:34] <jelly> like 2.5 years
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• 2102[18:52:52] <jelly> except for very special exceptions like web browsers
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• 2104[18:53:35] <jelly> amazingly gentoo is also rather good with security updates.
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• 2106[18:53:52] <noodlepie> I can live with older pacakges if the build quality is up to speed. Especially as a showtime example, tested and audited, kernel and syste
• 2107[18:53:56] <noodlepie> system
• 2108[18:54:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1563
• 2109[18:54:25] <blackflow> for a loving sns-loving distro, gentoo is surprisingly stable too.
• 2110[18:54:32] <blackflow> for a *rolling (lol)
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• 2190[19:29:06] <outoftime> What forces Debian 9 to turn off the screen during inactivity?
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• 2194[19:31:01] <greycat> Do you mean at the Linux console, or in an X session?
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• 2196[19:31:35] <outoftime> X session
• 2197[19:31:43] <greycat> You can control it with xset.
• 2198[19:31:55] <greycat> I have: xset s off; xset dpms 0 1800 0
• 2199[19:32:12] <outoftime> In .profile?
• 2200[19:32:30] <greycat> I put it in ~/.xsession because I use startx.
• 2201[19:32:44] <greycat> If you use a Display Manager, you might need to put it in ~/.xsessionrc instead, or a DE-specific dot file.
• 2202[19:32:58] <outoftime> gdm...
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• 2204[19:33:17] <greycat> GNOME might even override whatever you do. Who knows.
• 2205[19:33:38] <greycat> If you run GNOME I strongly suggest asking in a GNOME channel for details, because most of us don't know it.
• 2206[19:33:39] <outoftime> Yes, that is why I'm wonding who is responsible for that.
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• 2208[19:34:11] <outoftime> Ok, I'll try my luck there. Thank you.
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• 2240[19:48:35] <wald0> where is the list of remaining bugs for debian BUSTER ?
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• 2242[19:49:10] <wald0> im experiencing some slowness (pauses) running some commands inside my buster tests (live build or chroots)
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• 2244[19:51:19] <greycat> dpkg release-critical bugs
• 2245[19:51:19] <dpkg> Release-Critical bugs are Debian bugs with critical, grave or serious severities, preventing the next release of Debian. See the graph at replaced-url
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• 2249[19:52:02] <wald0> "release critical bugs list" -> list for stable VS testing, which one is each one? i mean, stable means the actual stable or the next one (buster) ?
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• 2257[19:55:10] <mrig> Hello, I have noticed a few usb bugs of late, has there been an update to the usb bus that migh be the cause of these?
• 2258[19:55:26] * wald0 asumes "bugs concerning next stable means buster"
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• 2266[19:57:08] <mrig> usb audio no longer swap able and a couple of odd behaviours from mouse and keyboard, is there a specific place for searching registered bugs perhaps?
• 2267[19:57:48] <mrig> Being fairly new to linux I am not sure of the usual procedure,
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• 2319[20:35:36] <julius_> hi
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• 2322[20:35:50] <somiaj> hello, do you have a question about debian julius_ ?
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• 2324[20:36:18] <somiaj> mrig: what version of debian are you running?
• 2325[20:37:15] <julius_> ive installed my own ssl certificate into firefox on my laptop which works, i can see that squid does ssl bump and the browser shows my certificate. but on windows with the same certificate i get a "insecure connection". i used the python simplehttpserver to transfer the certificate over to the windows pc...could there have been some weird encoding issue?
• 2326[20:37:19] <mrig> somiaj I am running 9.8
• 2327[20:37:31] <julius_> the windows firefox shows the same fingerprint for the certificate as the linux one does
• 2328[20:37:32] <mrig> stretch
• 2329[20:38:07] <somiaj> mrig: Are you running the stock kernel or the backport kernel?
• 2330[20:38:32] <outoftime> !ask
• 2331[20:38:32] <dpkg> If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
• 2332[20:38:33] <mrig> but have updated the graphics, the usb difference is there prior to that, yes this is the backports.
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• 2335[20:38:51] <mason> Are systemd user services supposed to work in Debian 9?
• 2336[20:39:18] <mrig> The difference in the behaviour of the usb for the audio device is the same for the stable kernel.
• 2337[20:39:19] <outoftime> mason: I'm running mpd in such way
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• 2340[20:39:33] <mason> outoftime: kk, I'm missing something then
• 2341[20:39:35] <mason> ty
• 2342[20:39:41] <somiaj> julius_: check why it is saying insecure connection, it could be it is just secured, but not verrified. Browsers often require both encyrption (ssl) and ssl verrification by a certificat authority. It could be that on your linux machine, you are working as your own authority so it accepts it, but your windows machine isn't configured to use your linux machine as an authority.
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• 2345[20:40:54] <somiaj> mrig: I'm not quite sure where to look for the issue, it would be in a combination of the kernel (drivers) + systemd/udev (which handels maping the kernel devices to device nodes a user can use)
• 2346[20:41:13] <somiaj> mrig: you said this worked at one time, then stopped working? Are you using any other unoffical sources besides backports?
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• 2351[20:42:48] <julius_> somiaj, what do you mean by authority?
• 2352[20:43:07] <somiaj> julius_: replaced-url
• 2353[20:43:09] <mason> outoftime: Are you running it out of .config/systemd/user, or are you specifying a user in a system unit file?
• 2354[20:43:22] <mrig> somiaj currently have a graphics driver from testing
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• 2356[20:43:37] <somiaj> mrig: that is probably the issue, you do not want to mix testing and stable.
• 2357[20:43:40] <somiaj> !frakendebian
• 2358[20:43:50] <mrig> could that be the cause of the peculiar, mouse and keyboard?
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• 2360[20:44:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1574
• 2361[20:44:16] <somiaj> !frankendebian
• 2362[20:44:17] <dpkg> When you get random packages from random repositories, mix multiple releases of Debian, or mix Debian and derived distributions, you have a mess. There's no way anyone can support this "distribution of Frankenstein" and #debian certainly doesn't want to even try. Ask me about <reinstall>
• 2363[20:44:46] <mrig> somiaj I started fiddling because of the audio usb change, that was on the stable.
• 2364[20:44:52] <somiaj> mrig: you can't just install .debs from testing into stable and expect things to work, and you probably pulled in some dependecies and the differences between testing and stable are causing weird thing.
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• 2366[20:45:11] <mrig> followed this technique replaced-url
• 2367[20:45:50] <somiaj> well I would rever to running pure testing, and unforutnally one of the best ways to do that is to reinstall.
• 2368[20:45:56] <somiaj> yea, that blog gives bad advise.
• 2369[20:46:12] <mrig> Yes could be, keen to learn more about the dependency's and the configuration.
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• 2373[20:47:33] <mrig> I will be reinstalling again soon I am sure, investigating openGL and mesa at the moment.
• 2374[20:47:37] <somiaj> it might be that newer driver can be installed okay, but I'm not gonna search through all the dependencies to figure it out. My advise, don't mix stable and testing no matter what blog tells you to.
• 2375[20:48:10] <somiaj> buster is frozen and in the process of being stabalized. It might be worth running instead of stable for a desktop (main issue is you won't get any security support with buster until after the release)
• 2376[20:48:31] <somiaj> It should be fairly stable (in terms of running just fine)
• 2377[20:48:43] <jcb2016> somiaj: what happens to stretch after buster is realeased?
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• 2379[20:48:47] <mrig> Could be that the standard install will be ok now, I have manually updated just the mesa and dependencies in the past an that was fine.
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• 2381[20:49:19] <mrig> somiaj right, do you know which version of mesa that has?
• 2382[20:49:22] <somiaj> jcb2016: stretch becomes old-stable, and will get security support from the debian security team for a year, and after a year the LTS team will most likely take over and provide another 3-5 years of support
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• 2384[20:49:50] <somiaj> ,v libgl1-mesa
• 2385[20:49:52] <judd> No package named 'libgl1-mesa' was found in amd64.
• 2386[20:49:59] <somiaj> ,v libgl1-mesa-dri
• 2387[20:50:00] <mrig> could be that that is an option. Security on my machine is not my main priority, it is a skylake cpu :|
• 2388[20:50:01] <judd> Package: libgl1-mesa-dri on amd64 -- wheezy: 8.0.5-4+deb7u2; wheezy-security: 8.0.5-4+deb7u2; jessie: 10.3.2-1+deb8u1; jessie-backports: 13.0.6-1~bpo8+1; stretch: 13.0.6-1+b2; stretch-backports: 18.2.8-2~bpo9+1; sid: 18.3.2-1; buster: 18.3.4-1
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• 2390[20:50:14] <mason> outoftime: Ah, I missed --user enable
• 2391[20:50:19] <somiaj> buster has mesa 18.3 it seems, while stretch as 13.0.6
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• 2394[20:50:58] <somiaj> at this time, I suggest buster for those who want/need newer software. It is now frozen, so only changes between now and its release will be bug fixes.
• 2395[20:51:29] <jcb2016> somiaj: im new and don't know how releases work. what happens when buster drops? do you update your sources.list then just update or safe-upgrade?
• 2396[20:51:32] <mrig> right, thank you for your advice.
• 2397[20:51:55] <greycat> jcb2016: the release notes will (hopefully) contain the instructions. Usually it's a fairly smooth process for most users.
• 2398[20:52:02] <jcb2016> ok
• 2399[20:52:05] <jcb2016> thanks greycat
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• 2407[20:54:51] <mrig> What is the difference between sid and buster, and the reason for the stretch-backports; I have thought that it might be a solution to remain fairly secure and use a more recent package?
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• 2409[20:55:44] <greycat> stretch-backports are packages compiled for stretch using source code that's newer than stretch's release
• 2410[20:56:18] <greycat> they are intended to be used on stretch, for users who NEED a specific, newer package
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• 2413[20:56:51] <mrig> Right that was how I did the update originally, was very stable for quite some time.
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• 2421[20:59:30] <mrig> pulled in only the required mesa and one other package for the driver and it was fine for quite some time, I was under the impression that the usb issue was related to something else, though it would appear that the `quirks` this morning maybe due to this driver update technique.
• 2422[21:01:04] <mrig> If I reinstall stretch and update the graphics from stretch-backports, would that be considered frakendebian?
• 2423[21:01:11] <greycat> no
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• 2426[21:02:20] <somiaj> note, the graphcs driver you pulled in xserver-xorg-video-intel is not in stretch-backports and not suggested to use. Use the modesetting driver and update your kernel for the newer intel kms driver.
• 2427[21:03:40] *** rpifan__ is now known as rpifan
• 2428[21:04:29] <mrig> right I see, yes that was the one that gave the funny usb dropouts, again though there has been a little change in the behaviour of late; I will reinstall and make a few notes to see if I can be a little more concise.
• 2429[21:05:02] <mrig> The plug and play usb audio was wonderful!
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• 2431[21:05:29] <mrig> for a laptop on a doc it really is a comfort.
• 2432[21:06:05] <somiaj> make sure you are checking pulses audio configuration with pavucontrol, maybe it is working but you need to select which sound card to switch too
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• 2435[21:07:07] <mrig> The card is no longer detected in the GNOME desktop panel, I have to log out and then back in again for it to be picked up.
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• 2438[21:07:31] <mrig> I will go look up pavucontrol now, this is news to me.
• 2439[21:07:50] <somiaj> could be an issue with gnome, also check /proc/asound/cards
• 2440[21:08:11] <mrig> I think it could be a GNOME issue
• 2441[21:08:12] <somiaj> could also be a pulse issue
• 2442[21:08:30] <mrig> The card is still available in the alsamixer
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• 2446[21:09:18] <mrig> ah right that is the volume from the pulse audio program
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• 2451[21:13:08] <mrig> I was thinking of trying a different GUI, I will install one more time to see, would you line the info after the clean install, I am fairly sure that the audio issue will still be there? If not, no mind; I will take it up with GNOME or look at another GUI.
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• 2454[21:14:25] <Deihmos> according to the debian website the mail exim4 comes preinstaled but that isn't the case
• 2455[21:14:38] <Deihmos> do i need to nstall that to get mail messages to root?
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• 2458[21:16:07] <LtL> Deihmos: install mutt, it eads root's mail via /etc/aliaes file. and there are other ways.
• 2459[21:16:17] <LtL> reads
• 2460[21:16:37] <greycat> mutt doesn't know or care about /etc/aliases.
• 2461[21:16:48] <greycat> /etc/aliases is used by the MTA to route messages during delivery.
• 2462[21:17:02] <LtL> last line of that file
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• 2464[21:17:28] <greycat> You can edit /etc/aliases to control where root's mail GOES. Reading it is an entirely separate matter.
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• 2466[21:18:19] <LtL> agreed but by default mail to root goes to the initial user
• 2467[21:18:25] <mrig> somiaj any thoughts on how to isolate the cause if it were pulse?
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• 2469[21:18:50] <somiaj> mrig: well if you see the card in cat /proc/asound/cards, but not showing up in pulse, you know pulse is the issue. I have no clue how to debug pulse though.
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• 2473[21:20:22] <mrig> I would say that that is near certainty as it was available to alsamixer, nice to find the files though, to see where the information resides.
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• 2477[21:21:17] <mrig> Thank you for your advice, I will reinstall with GNOME, and see how that goes, at least I am becoming used to updating mesa :)
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• 2481[21:23:39] <outoftime> Is there i3wm users who can tell me what to do with Buster wich uses Wayland?
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• 2487[21:26:48] <mason> outoftime: Presumably Wayland is optional.
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• 2490[21:28:35] <greycat> At some point I'm probably going to have to listen to #debian-next which will mean connecting to that other network. :(
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• 2499[21:31:47] <SerajewelKS> wayland is actually happening, eh?
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• 2504[21:37:48] <greycat> That resounding silence is why I feel I'll have to listen to #debian-next.
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• 2508[21:40:05] <nkuttler> there's always ##chat if you want noise
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• 2510[21:40:41] <greycat> I don't want noise. I want knowledge.
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• 2514[21:41:33] <mason> greycat: What knowledge? About Wayland?
• 2515[21:42:05] <greycat> Yes. For starters. Also whatever else one needs to know before upgrading to buster.
• 2516[21:42:34] <SerajewelKS> hopefully much of that last bit would be in the release notes?
• 2517[21:42:35] <nkuttler> buster is almost as boring as stable right now
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• 2524[21:46:57] <XsiSec> Hi guys what is it for chmod rules I need to apply to get drwxrwsr-x ?
• 2525[21:47:04] <greycat> 2775
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• 2531[21:48:10] <XsiSec> thanks!
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• 2535[21:49:25] <XsiSec> I don't get it I have installed python 3.7 also by pip and pip3 installed feedparser though when I run a file where I have imported feedparser I get ImportError: No module named feedparser.
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• 2541[21:50:05] <jordanm> XsiSec: use virtualenvs
• 2542[21:50:33] <jordanm> and also be sure to use #!/usr/bin/env python3 as your shebang
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• 2550[21:53:55] <phryk> apt, apt-get, aptitude – wtf is the current canonical thing again? o_O
• 2551[21:54:16] <greycat> Whichever you like.
• 2552[21:54:38] <greycat> The only time one is recommended or dis-recommended is during a release upgrade.
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• 2555[21:55:12] <phryk> why aren't two of the three just killed?
• 2556[21:55:37] <greycat> Why should they be?
• 2557[21:55:41] *** Quits: HAKEON (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Quit: HAKEON)
• 2558[21:55:45] <phryk> because it's confusing as hell.
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• 2560[21:56:11] <greycat> Hell, even dselect is still packaged.
• 2561[21:56:19] <greycat> What's confusing? Use whichever one you like.
• 2562[21:56:39] <outoftime> greycat: what 's' means in that string?
• 2563[21:56:39] <phryk> unless don't use the one you like, it might bork your system when upgrading? :P
• 2564[21:56:43] <jcb2016> i thought dselect was only gentoo
• 2565[21:56:45] <phryk> that sounds downright dangerous^^;
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• 2570[22:00:57] <greycat> outoftime: replaced-url
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• 2575[22:04:55] <Ede|Popede> wasn't d for debian?
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• 2581[22:08:57] <sharp15> this is silly. i have a HP LaserJet Pro MFP M148dw is this thing actually in hplip or not? i don't see it on a very long list in cups but it is on hplip web list.
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• 2639[22:56:24] <sharp15> nm.
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