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• 43[00:22:41] <annadane> how to check when unattended upgrades checks the mirrors for updates?
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• 63[00:35:24] <karlpinc> annadane: I'd start by poking around /etc/cron.d/
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• 65[00:35:45] <karlpinc> annadane: Or the cron logs.
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• 71[00:38:10] <annadane> i'm not immediately seeing anything
• 72[00:38:31] <annadane> oh, here we go
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• 75[00:40:34] <annadane> god. i'm so terrible at everything
• 76[00:40:53] <iosecure> Including being a motivational speaker.
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• 80[00:42:23] <mutante> iosecure wasn't terrible at making me smile
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• 84[00:43:39] <annadane> i shouldn't be allowed near computers
• 85[00:43:47] <gordonfish> jelly: Thanks. What about unpacking the iso(s) into a subdir on a usb (either just DVD-1.iso or all three into one dir) and setting up grub to make /debian/9.6.0 the root and boot the kernel in there?
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• 88[00:46:03] <mutante> annadane: there is a German proverb "Alle kochen nur mit Wasser." ~ "everybody uses water for cooking". Don't overestimate the others, even the professionals just google stuff all day.
• 89[00:46:52] <iosecure> Guilty as charged.
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• 92[00:47:20] <n4dir> usually you say "die kochen auch nur mit Wasser" though.
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• 95[00:47:52] <mutante> n4dir: i ended up on replaced-url
• 96[00:48:26] <n4dir> ding translates to "they still put their trousery". I like that.
• 97[00:48:37] <mutante> heh, it's even an "unsolved query" on dict.leo to explain it
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• 99[00:48:43] <n4dir> mutante: yeah, your point was very clear, and i fully agree.
• 100[00:48:44] <Ede|Popede> the bingding?
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• 102[00:49:07] <n4dir> Ede|Popede: a dict from the TU Chemnitz, which is good for my needs.
• 103[00:49:19] <n4dir> apt-cache show ding, as everything the debian repos have it.
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• 105[00:49:22] <Ede|Popede> huh? only knew leo so far
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• 107[00:50:02] <Ede|Popede> ah, found it. another thing to look at. later.
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• 110[00:50:21] <n4dir> not sure, but i think yoou could mate it other languages/dicts too (just wordlists).
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• 112[00:50:37] <n4dir> damnit: make it translate. sorry
• 113[00:50:55] <mutante> gotta also compare wiktionary. replaced-url
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• 116[00:51:33] <n4dir> in Rhineland we say it all the time, it is very common. not sure bout other German regions.
• 117[00:52:14] <mutante> n4dir: ksh.wikipedia.org :)
• 118[00:52:47] <n4dir> ha ha. thanks for that.
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• 120[00:53:12] <mutante> n4dir: Linux is article of the day. lol @ Linux, dat klengk: [ˈliːnʊks] (IPA), um_mer säät och GNU/Linux doför.
• 121[00:53:51] <mutante> kernel = Kään
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• 129[00:56:19] * Ede|Popede wonders if there are more german dialects or distros based on debian.
• 130[00:56:57] <annadane> siduction
• 131[00:57:13] <annadane> has a lot of germans working on it
• 132[00:57:27] <n4dir> hence they fight each other all the time, i guess.
• 133[00:57:56] <iosecure> But it's efficient fighting.
• 134[00:58:12] <n4dir> not when it destroyed sidux (if that was the name)
• 135[00:58:25] <n4dir> but sure, the result is good (or was).
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• 137[00:59:35] <mutante> Ede|Popede: just 2 of them did actually get their own Wikipedia so far, Koelsh and Bavarian
• 138[00:59:52] <mutante> Koelsch = Ripuarian
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• 140[01:00:15] <mutante> that means they have ISO codes somewhere
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• 143[01:00:33] <Ede|Popede> mutante: seen the oldest entry in the news on ksh? he's damn right and not only for kölsch :(
• 144[01:01:08] <Ede|Popede> "mia san mia", they'd surely start a revolution if they wouldn't have been given one ;)
• 145[01:01:22] <altker128> Has anyone here worked with Alpine Linux?
• 146[01:01:47] *** Quits: poti (~archie@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 147[01:01:56] <annadane> !alpine
• 148[01:01:56] <dpkg> Alpine is a cross-platform e-mail client for the console. It is a rewrite of <Pine>, distributed under the version 2.0 of the Apache License. It currently has no <maildir> support (Debian bug #405762). replaced-url
• 149[01:02:01] <annadane> nooooo
• 150[01:02:03] <annadane> bad dpkg
• 151[01:02:07] <n4dir> lol.
• 152[01:02:35] <annadane> anyway, ask alpine support, and not debian?
• 153[01:02:40] <n4dir> altker128: you might ask in #linux, depending what exactly your question is.
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• 155[01:02:50] <annadane> it's ##linux
• 156[01:04:09] <altker128> annadane: Yeah, running into issues with alpine container on Debian and vice versa
• 157[01:04:14] <altker128> Chicken and egg :)
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• 160[01:05:42] <annadane> that's fair enough. then i'd say "go ahead and ask your real question"
• 161[01:05:47] <annadane> and we may or may not be able to answer
• 162[01:06:24] <annadane> i would then say "i'm out of tea but i'm too lazy to get up and make more so i guess i'll just die of thirst"
• 163[01:06:27] <altker128> Well, I'm struggling to get lxc containers going in Alpine linux as the host OS, so wondering if anyone has gone down that route
• 164[01:06:45] <altker128> (I have plenty of success using Debian Stretch as a host OS with lxc)
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• 170[01:08:10] <annadane> well, any specific error messages?
• 171[01:08:33] <annadane> certainly for debian hosts we can probably help
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• 173[01:08:44] <annadane> and by we i mean ANYONE ELSE THAN ME
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• 175[01:09:38] <altker128> annadane: Hah. Well, it might be related to cgroups not being enabled in the kernel . I'm not sure if that's supposed to be turned on or not. For Debian that stuff "just works"
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• 177[01:10:10] <annadane> i'm surprised you have problems in *both* directions, it would make sense for the issue to be either in alpine or debian hosts
• 178[01:10:23] <annadane> it may just be as simple as turning on virtualization in the BIOS
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• 182[01:11:04] <annadane> if lxc displays any error messages, google those or stick it on paste.debian.net for potential help from those who know
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• 195[01:21:33] <annadane> or, of course, ask lxc support
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• 197[01:21:59] <annadane> my intuition tells me it's a very simple solution but i don't know that much about virtualization so i can't *personally* diagnose it
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• 220[01:33:47] <e3d3> my info command shows an empty list. Where can I find help about this ?
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• 223[01:34:43] <e3d3> Google seems to remove 'info' in most of my search strings !?
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• 228[01:38:21] <joepublic> you might google for "gnu info"
• 229[01:38:44] <e3d3> thanks, I'll try that
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• 233[01:43:04] <altker128> OK, back to Debian as a host
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• 237[01:45:46] <n4dir> and i hesitated to propose that ...
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• 239[01:46:20] <altker128> I had some reasons for going down this route
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• 241[01:46:29] <n4dir> damnit: i guess you did check the alpine wiki about lxc? it seems good. altker128
• 242[01:46:35] <altker128> n4dir: I did
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• 244[01:46:49] <n4dir> yeah, i thought so. damn it.
• 245[01:47:02] <annadane> or the arch wiki...
• 246[01:47:06] <altker128> n4dir: The issue is it seems the when you install the lxc package, it doesn't install some neccessary dependencies that are needed to even get lxc-checkconfig to work
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• 248[01:47:23] <altker128> n4dir: I installed more packages, and found issues with the lxc-fuse stuff
• 249[01:47:30] <n4dir> altker128: i know for sure that at forums.debian.net a dude uses alpine, even has a web-page about it. I don't know if he is in lxc. perhaps make a post there anyway.
• 250[01:47:30] <altker128> n4dir: i.e. it looks missing.
• 251[01:47:33] <annadane> d'oh
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• 254[01:48:08] <n4dir> altker128: i know nothing about containers or lxc or such.
• 255[01:48:11] <altker128> Besides the minor (and understandably required) configuration of lxc networking stuff on the host, it's been pretty easy to get going on Debian
• 256[01:48:20] <altker128> n4dir: Well, it's really awesome stuff
• 257[01:48:31] <altker128> n4dir: It's like FreeBSD's jails or Solaris zones
• 258[01:48:57] <altker128> n4dir: I like to place services (i.e. a wiki or LDAP server) in it's own container.
• 259[01:49:09] <n4dir> yup, after reading at the alpine wiki, i thought about trying it. i am happy with chroot, but Virtualbox doesn't run here anymore (specs) and qemu is beyond me (too slow too)
• 260[01:49:28] <altker128> qemu with the KVM stuff is quite fast
• 261[01:49:31] <n4dir> never understood the difference between a jail and a chroot.
• 262[01:49:32] <altker128> if your CPU has that
• 263[01:49:46] <altker128> n4dir: Well, a Linux container is chroot on steroids
• 264[01:49:57] <n4dir> lol.
• 265[01:50:23] <n4dir> i miss it to fool around in VirtualBox and such. Perhaps these days i will give it a try.
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• 269[01:53:12] <mutante> n4dir: jail is a BSD term but also a generic term and can mean other things than just chroot, but sometimes they mean by jail what you get after chrooting :) reading replaced-url
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• 273[01:55:19] <n4dir> ah, well, thanks, but still confusing for me (a bit). At least it seems similar
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• 331[02:44:02] <altker128> Question for OpenVPN users here : Normally one uses a tun setup, and OpenVPN gives out IPs in some range like 10.0.8.x and then one uses routing/NAT to go from that to an internal network. Would there be "conflicts" if OpenVPN handed out IPs in the same range as what's used on the LAN, just in a range that doesn't cause conflicts with a DHCP server?
• 332[02:44:32] <SerajewelKS> depends what you mean by "same range"
• 333[02:44:53] <SerajewelKS> if you mean the same subnet as another network segment, probably not, because then the internal routers won't know to send those packets to the VPN server
• 334[02:45:17] <altker128> SerajewelKS: Say LAN is 192.168.0.1/24 ; have DHCP give out 192.168.0.100 + and OpenVPN 192.168.0.50 - 192.168.0.100
• 335[02:45:26] <SerajewelKS> with tun, you have to use layer 3 routing, which means you need to have the VPN on its own layer 3 segment (subnet)
• 336[02:45:44] <SerajewelKS> no, that's not going to work, unless the VPN server _is_ the gateway
• 337[02:45:48] <altker128> (in this it is)
• 338[02:45:53] <altker128> (in this case, it is)
• 339[02:46:15] <SerajewelKS> if you want to do that, it would be better to use tap, and create a bridge with the physical network interface and the openvpn interface
• 340[02:46:34] <SerajewelKS> then layer 2 routing (switching and ARP) will do all of the work
• 341[02:46:53] <altker128> That also means on the client side, tap would be used
• 342[02:46:55] <altker128> I assume
• 343[02:47:01] <SerajewelKS> yes
• 344[02:47:15] <SerajewelKS> it also means your LAN DHCP server would transparently notice the VPN clients and assign them IPs in the same range
• 345[02:47:20] <altker128> yeah
• 346[02:47:28] <SerajewelKS> it will probably also give them the default route, which is probably not desired
• 347[02:47:41] <iosecure> Not all clients support tap, so beware.
• 348[02:47:54] <SerajewelKS> i would suggent just using a different subnet, such as 192.168.1.0/24
• 349[02:48:08] <SerajewelKS> then have your default gateway know to direct packets for that subnet to the VPN server
• 350[02:48:17] <SerajewelKS> layer 3 routing on the VPN server will then direct them to the right VPN client
• 351[02:48:36] <altker128> Yeah. I've always used tun mode.
• 352[02:48:53] <SerajewelKS> i've run into enough cases of things not working with tun that i rarely use it anymore
• 353[02:48:54] <altker128> Have you ever used tap? So much of the OpenVPN documentation has "beware, this will be slow"
• 354[02:49:16] <SerajewelKS> tap can be slower because there is more layer 2 chatter
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• 356[02:49:29] <altker128> Have you seen that personally?
• 357[02:49:34] <SerajewelKS> tun doesn't need ARP, but it also generally does not support layer 2 broadcasts without special config
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• 359[02:49:45] <SerajewelKS> i have not pushed the limits of tap enough to notice any performance difference
• 360[02:50:12] <SerajewelKS> i just like that a tap link is pretty much like an ethernet cable
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• 362[02:50:33] <SerajewelKS> which means applications don't really need to know about it. e.g. broadcasts work.
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• 364[02:50:46] <SerajewelKS> tun needs help to make broadcasts work and even then i've never gotten in to work 100%
• 365[02:51:04] <SerajewelKS> so if you e.g. have a samba server you want to access over the VPN, tun is not going to enable it to be discovered, generally
• 366[02:51:22] <SerajewelKS> with tap, it just works
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• 370[02:51:36] <altker128> Yeah, anything that relies on broadcast traffic will not work with tun
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• 373[02:51:54] <SerajewelKS> the biggest issue i've had with tap is preventing incorrect DHCP settings. e.g. i want local clients to get the default route, but not VPN clients.
• 374[02:52:04] <SerajewelKS> that can be solved with a few iptables rules blocking DHCP from traversing the bridge
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• 377[02:52:54] <SerajewelKS> my VPNs are small enough that i don't have a problem using static IP settings for VPN clients
• 378[02:53:25] <SerajewelKS> but i also use tinc and not openvpn
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• 381[02:53:49] <SerajewelKS> i spent more time dicking with openvpn settings than actually benefitting from it
• 382[02:54:26] <altker128> hehe
• 383[02:54:58] <SerajewelKS> tinc is dead simple and works well
• 384[02:55:05] <altker128> SerajewelKS: What's your experience been with it?
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• 386[02:55:39] <SerajewelKS> tinc uses public/private keys but doesn't require x509 like openvpn does, so a multi-client setup is very easy
• 387[02:56:25] <SerajewelKS> tinc's default mode is also to keep running and try to reconnect no matter what happens. openvpn likes to terminate on any connection problem. tinc can form meshes easily.
• 388[02:56:58] <SerajewelKS> it's more of a peer model than a client-server model
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• 390[02:58:11] <SerajewelKS> for example, in tap mode you can form a triangle between three nodes and tinc will internally do STP or something like it
• 391[02:58:17] <altker128> SerajewelKS: Have you used Win/Mac as a client?
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• 394[02:58:37] <SerajewelKS> so it will use the shortest path. if one leg of the triangle dies, there is still full connectivity across the other node
• 395[02:58:54] <SerajewelKS> i have used it on windows
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• 397[02:59:42] <SerajewelKS> that's the only place i've seen performance problems and that's because of a performance regression in the windows tap driver
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• 399[03:00:09] <SerajewelKS> so you'd probably see the same thing with openvpn, unless you install an older version of the driver before the regression
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• 446[03:58:01] <Akuw> when i do ssh-copy-id that will copy id_rsa.pub to server right?
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• 451[04:02:50] <bob8338> I just ran an "apt upgrade" on a machine that hadn't run it for maybe a year. it downloaded and installed a bunch of packages, then the screen started flashing off and on at about 0.5 Hz. I switched to a virtual terminal and saw it was stuck running "grub-install"
• 452[04:03:23] *** Quits: Tom01 (~tom@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 453[04:03:43] <bob8338> I killed it, and the apt upgrade continued. running the grub-install manually afterwards I see it says "Installing for i386-pc platform." - but I'm on x86_64 - could that be a problem?
• 454[04:05:40] <bob8338> it went on to say "Installation finished. No error reported." and "Found linux image: /boot/vmlinuz-4.9.0-8-amd64" so maybe it's OK. I just don't want to try rebooting to test it and end up with yet another unbootable machine
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• 465[04:13:37] <simbalion> the nvidia package in experimental depends on a package that doesn't seem to exist (glx-alternative-nvidia >= 0.9), is it possible to get that package somehow?
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• 467[04:14:22] <annadane> !debian-next
• 468[04:14:22] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
• 469[04:15:17] <simbalion> And why does replaced-url
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• 471[04:15:34] <simbalion> oh wait nvm it's not showing sid in the list
• 472[04:15:42] <simbalion> thats weird cause contrib is in my sources
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• 476[04:18:03] <SerajewelKS> bob8338: i386-pc is the correct package. there isn't a 64-bit bootloader, AFAIK.
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• 478[04:18:13] <simbalion> I guess updating other branches requires specifying them on the cli
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• 480[04:18:32] <SerajewelKS> nothing says a 32-bit bootloader can't run a 64-bit kernel
• 481[04:18:52] <simbalion> what is 32bit
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• 483[04:19:06] <simbalion> is that an artifact from an archeological dig or something?
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• 485[04:19:27] <SerajewelKS> plenty of systems are still 32 bit
• 486[04:19:40] <simbalion> running windows right?
• 487[04:20:03] <SerajewelKS> some of them probably, some of them probably linux
• 488[04:20:33] <SerajewelKS> you don't need 64-bit on embedded systems with little RAM. in fact that could be a bad idea.
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• 492[04:21:24] <tomasg1432> hello, i am a totally newbie trying to get a program to work, can i got some help from you?
• 493[04:21:46] <SerajewelKS> maybe, but you'd need to give a lot more detail than that
• 494[04:21:52] <SerajewelKS> !ask
• 495[04:21:53] <dpkg> If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
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• 497[04:23:21] <tomasg1432> ok, i already build "clam" wich is the core program now i am tryinh to buid one gui interface to work with it, both of the programs were built with "scons" wich i don even now what it is
• 498[04:24:04] <tomasg1432> the install file say this "From the vmqt directory type $ scons clam_prefix=/usr/local"
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• 500[04:25:10] <tomasg1432> when i do it an error says that qt4 is not a zip file, then i made some little research and find out that i need to put __init_ _.py in site_scons... etc directory
• 501[04:25:13] <tomasg1432> i made that
• 502[04:25:51] <tomasg1432> now the error is "AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'generate"
• 503[04:26:05] <tomasg1432> sorry my poor english
• 504[04:26:14] <tomasg1432> debian strech
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• 509[04:32:35] <bob8338> SerajewelKS: thanks. it worried me when the screen was flashing on and off while it installed
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• 553[05:08:08] <broseph> I've been trying to install debian on a Dell XPS 9570, but it keeps booting into some Dell care mode instead of the newly installed debian.
• 554[05:08:13] <broseph> I thought I turned off secure boot.
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• 556[05:08:24] <broseph> How do I get this to boot?
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• 558[05:09:18] <altker128> broseph: You might have to go into the BIOS and set the EFI Debian as bootable
• 559[05:09:25] <altker128> broseph: Or possibly turn of security stuff
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• 561[05:11:49] <dvs> or say that Debian was installed to removable media (even if it wasn't)
• 562[05:11:53] <broseph> Yeah it keeps going into Support Assist
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• 581[05:35:42] <altker128> broseph: You need to go into the BIOS and look at what is set as the boot volume. You might have to toggle the Debian/EFI partition to make it bootable
• 582[05:36:02] <altker128> broseph: Also try pressing F10 or F12 on boot and force it to boot from your internal HDD to make sure everything was installed correclty
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• 588[05:43:37] <broseph> Well, what I am doing now is using the jessie firmware netinstaller
• 589[05:44:12] <broseph> It says it's a UEFI installer, so I'm thinking that's going to work. The problem I had, I think, was using the buster version.
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• 591[05:47:21] <broseph> Fingers crossed.
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• 601[05:54:10] <altker128> broseph: Dude, did you try to boot off your installed installation by using the BIOS boot option? That would have helped you figure out where the problem is
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• 607[06:01:33] <broseph> It wouldn't work
• 608[06:01:43] <broseph> Just kept cycling through that Support Assist junk.
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• 623[06:12:00] <altker128> broseph: Did it see your built in HDD?
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• 725[07:52:56] <bindi> Hello, I have 2x Intel 82574L onboard NICs and they don't work out of the box, is there a package available in nonfree repos? or do I need to build it myself from Intel site?
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• 795[08:43:13] <Guest49765> is it safe to do apt upgrade from a chroot
• 796[08:43:38] <Guest49765> as i seem to be getting errors during dpkg setting up
• 797[08:44:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1430
• 798[08:44:06] <Guest49765> for example
• 799[08:44:09] <Guest49765> Failed to open connection to "system" message bus: Failed to connect to socket /var/run/dbus/system_bus_socket: No such file or director
• 800[08:44:30] <Guest49765> Cannot find list of partitions! (Try mounting /sys.)
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• 802[08:44:31] <Guest49765> done
• 803[08:45:21] <coderphive> What'd you use to create it?
• 804[08:45:40] <Guest49765> create what?
• 805[08:45:45] <coderphive> the chroot
• 806[08:45:48] <Guest49765> nothing
• 807[08:46:03] <Guest49765> im using live iso
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• 809[08:46:17] <Guest49765> cus i cant connect to the internet in my OS
• 810[08:46:38] <coderphive> That's weird
• 811[08:46:49] <coderphive> So, I would use something like debootstrap
• 812[08:47:08] <coderphive> It'll probably save you some heartache
• 813[08:47:26] <Guest49765> i dont want to erase the OS
• 814[08:47:37] <coderphive> You mean the chroot?
• 815[08:47:47] <Guest49765> sure
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• 819[08:49:57] <jelly> Guest49765: it's reasonably safe when no services are running anyway
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• 821[08:51:05] <Guest49765> how do i fix this
• 822[08:51:06] <Guest49765> replaced-url
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• 829[08:53:06] <jelly> Guest49765: 1) why are you installing ubuntu packages on debian 2) does /usr/arm-linux-gnueabi/lib directory exist at all
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• 831[08:53:57] <Guest49765> replaced-url
• 832[08:54:28] <Guest49765> replaced-url
• 833[08:54:31] <jelly> ,v libc6-dev-armel-cross
• 834[08:54:32] <judd> Package: libc6-dev-armel-cross on amd64 -- stretch: 2.24-10cross1; buster: 2.28-2cross2; sid: 2.28-2cross2
• 835[08:55:27] <jelly> and the first question?
• 836[08:55:40] <Guest49765> ?
• 837[08:55:49] <jelly> why are you installing ubuntu packages on debian
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• 839[08:57:16] <jelly> that must have been a very scary question
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• 842[08:59:42] <coderphive> lmao
• 843[08:59:48] <coderphive> Something sounded fishy
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• 860[09:13:59] <coderphive> That person showed in #kubuntu, #ubuntu, and here
• 861[09:14:03] <coderphive> what in the lawd
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• 876[09:33:44] <chachasmooth> vote for the Debian 10 default wallpaper: replaced-url
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• 1138[11:55:21] <mka> Hi, I have installed nvm, node and npm following this procedure: , replaced-url
• 1139[11:55:21] <mka> r/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/local/games:/usr/games, while I have, PATH=/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/local/games:/usr/games, Why does my user doesn't go through /etc/profile.d/nvm.sh and the other can ?
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• 1201[12:31:33] <bkircher> I might have a possible stupid question: is there no #debian-devel channel? where do devs hang around?
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• 1208[12:32:01] <petn-randall> bkircher: There is, but all Debian channels are on oftc. This is only here for historical reasons.
• 1209[12:32:07] <petn-randall> *This one
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• 1211[12:32:12] <kirk781> oftc?
• 1212[12:32:28] <bkircher> ah, oftc
• 1213[12:32:36] <chkbsd> open and free technology chat
• 1214[12:32:43] <chkbsd> irc.oftc.net
• 1215[12:33:01] <petn-randall> !oftc move
• 1216[12:33:02] <dpkg> irc.debian.org moved to OFTC on June 4th 2006, see replaced-url
• 1217[12:33:24] <kirk781> Wow, that's old
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• 1253[12:54:46] <AlecTaylor> hi
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• 1257[12:56:32] <AlecTaylor> I'm thinking to move from Ubuntu Server. It's a little heavy, and whenever I login it needs upgrades then it needs a reboot. What's a better solution, maybe something with livepatch and auto updates?
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• 1287[13:13:17] <iosecure> How often are you logging in and seeing that it needs updates?
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• 1304[13:22:58] <Enissay> Hello
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• 1328[13:34:31] <murii> I have a program which outputs some numbers, how can I take those numbers and manipulate them?
• 1329[13:34:49] <murii> ./program | get N output | do something
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• 1336[13:36:48] <blackflow> murii: define "take"
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• 1338[13:37:06] <blackflow> because what you wrote would be one way to "take" the output and pipe it to a program's stdin
• 1339[13:37:11] <murii> I want to manipulate the output of the program
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• 1341[13:37:27] <blackflow> then pipe it to the program that's going to do teh manipulation.
• 1342[13:37:50] <murii> I want to run wc -l on all the output numbers from the program
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• 1344[13:38:44] <Soliton> ./program | wc -l
• 1345[13:38:51] <blackflow> yeah.
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• 1347[13:39:10] <blackflow> unless you man you want to count how many times _each_ number appears?
• 1348[13:39:46] <blackflow> s/man you//
• 1349[13:40:10] <murii> I'd like that as well
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• 1353[13:41:12] <blackflow> well I wasn't sure what you were asking because you apparently know how to pipe stdout to a stdin, in your original question at least.
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• 1355[13:41:35] <blackflow> but to count them individually you can sort and then use uniq -c, for example ./ program | sort | uniq -c
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• 1357[13:41:44] <murii> ok
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• 1381[13:57:28] * noodlepie is just updating our communal Debian GNU/Linux system - lots of unstable packages to d/l. I like "rolling release" which is why "unstable"
• 1382[13:58:08] <noodlepie> Heya AlecTaylor, semeion !
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• 1401[14:03:44] <knstn> If Intel was releasing new CPU next week, how long it would take for the stable release to support the new hardware? Or they back-port the kernel drivers?
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• 1418[14:11:02] <petn-randall> knstn: CPUs tend to be backwards compatible with the previous generation, so there's no new support needed.
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• 1423[14:12:12] <petn-randall> knstn: For other Intel hardware, they usually add the support to the Linux kernel well in advance, so brand new Intel hardware usually works out of the box even with a 6 months old kernel.
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• 1425[14:12:47] <petn-randall> knstn: For everything else, you'll have to check if it's supported in a current kernel, and you can then install a kernel from stretch-backports to enable the hardware.
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• 1427[14:13:16] <knstn> Good, i'm on hold for the 7nm APUs on April from AMD. I plan to buy day one.
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• 1443[14:19:30] <jelly> knstn: it really depends on how much "support" one needs; if it's "linux boots and works", then it's likely what petn-randall said. If it's "all features, esp. power management 100% supported, gpu accelerated encoding and decoding 100% working" that can take 6-12 months after a model is on the market, or more
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• 1445[14:20:09] <jelly> that's my experience with intel. No idea about amd.
• 1446[14:20:17] <cryptodan> jelly: thats even if the devs decide to include those features
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• 1448[14:20:40] <JustASlacker> well, some systems come with linux support as well
• 1449[14:20:48] <JustASlacker> some dell machines
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• 1453[14:22:28] <knstn> :jelly Ryzen APUs are out a while now. So a 7nm one, will be functional i guess. As long as the cpu & gpu cores work, that's enough for me. Power management and such, not my concern.
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• 1456[14:23:38] <jelly> it's your money and time.
• 1457[14:23:42] <cryptodan> itll be up to the motherboard chipset though knstn
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• 1462[14:24:42] * jelly will keep buying hardware that's been at least 12 months on the marker if it's destined to run just Linux
• 1463[14:24:50] <blackflow> don't forget that new CPUs come with new features for which you need new gcc and sometimes libc support. otherwies it's just "brand new", for the same feature set which doesn't require change in support.
• 1464[14:25:18] <jelly> I don't have time to track latest kernels, xorgs, mesas, drivers, firmwares etc.
• 1465[14:25:21] <blackflow> ie. it'll still work because it's, say, x86_64, that part will at least.
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• 1470[14:26:27] <knstn> :jelly :cryptodan I'm currently on a 2010 system. 4-core, SATA 2, DDR3 1333.... and in need of a multicore cpu. If amd brings out 7nm in 4 months, i don't see the point of wasting money now. That's the issue here.
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• 1472[14:26:56] <blackflow> I'd be more worried about hardware bugs than software support. Ryzen was particularly.... affected in that regard. and If I'm not mistaken, Ryzen2 is not mere bugfix/refinement of it, but has design chances, so quite possibly new hw bugs.
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• 1474[14:27:04] <cryptodan> you have a multicore though knstn lol
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• 1478[14:28:34] <jelly> knstn: I was in a similar situation in 2011. Bought not sandybridge but i3-540 / i5-650, clarkdale. And again this year. Replaced that clarkdale system with a 2014 nehalem.
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• 1480[14:29:35] <jelly> (reused DDR3 RAM for extra savings, but that's less important)
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• 1482[14:30:52] <cryptodan> at home im on a Core i7 4790k, on my lap top its a core i7 7700hq i got the lap top due to it being 800 bucks on sale plus veterans day discount
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• 1485[14:31:21] <jelly> how much battery life do you get out of that on linux
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• 1488[14:32:04] <cryptodan> jelly: since i use nvidia only its 2 hours its a desktop replacement lap top
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• 1491[14:32:29] <knstn> From January onwards, i need host + 3 virtual servers. I'll try to run the VMs on console mode to save ram, and ssh'ing from host. But with 7GB ram only and 4 cores, could be hard. If it is not feasible, i'll upgrade.
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• 1494[14:33:20] <cryptodan> knstn: ive ran 5vm's on my 4790k with ease for school related security classes it has 32gigs of ram
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• 1496[14:34:13] <tete_> hi, i have a question regarding php 7.0, which is the only available in debian 9. is this still supported (bugfix etc.) from debian? i am wondering because, officially it is EOL
• 1497[14:34:27] <jelly> it's still supported.
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• 1502[14:36:32] <blackflow> not for bugfixes tho'. only (major) security issues.
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• 1510[14:41:35] <tete_> ok thanks
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• 1557[15:05:06] <wwilliam> Hello can I use Stretch for production?
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• 1560[15:05:47] <joepublic> That's the idea.
• 1561[15:05:48] <Fox> wwilliam: you should use stretch for production
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• 1563[15:06:24] <wwilliam> Thank you Fox
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• 1565[15:06:48] <FinalX> it's the current stable, so anything that is not stretch is either unsupported, going to be unsupported with the next release, or not supported yet
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• 1567[15:07:39] <joepublic> I have a database server still on jessie. I should probably work on that.
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• 1576[15:13:50] <Ussat> srsly...wtf guys, come on.... replaced-url
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• 1600[15:28:37] <bkircher> well, it is a shitty name, though
• 1601[15:29:13] <Ussat> its a fine name...srsyly....
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• 1603[15:29:27] <Ussat> just as good as other stupid Linux names..
• 1604[15:29:48] <dmerejkowsky> Hello
• 1605[15:29:59] <joepublic> what's the world coming to when you can't make juvenile jokes about boobs and be taken seriously, amirite ussat?
• 1606[15:30:17] <dmerejkowsky> I'm experiencing a problem after upgrading python-pip-whl to 18.1-3 on unstable
• 1607[15:30:26] <Ussat> People need to lighten up with the whole SJW thing
• 1608[15:30:28] <dmerejkowsky> After running `python3 -m venv foo`, I got
• 1609[15:30:35] <dmerejkowsky> ./foo/bin/python -c 'import wheel'
• 1610[15:30:41] <dmerejkowsky> No module named wheel
• 1611[15:30:44] <dmerejkowsky> any clues ?
• 1612[15:31:02] <joepublic> !debian-next
• 1613[15:31:03] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
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• 1616[15:31:25] <dmerejkowsky> joepublic: sorry
• 1617[15:31:40] <joepublic> dmerejkowsky, you will probably find people more apt to help you there, more knowledgeable. good luck :)
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• 1667[15:51:24] <wwilliam> do i have to log out in log back in when added to a new group?
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• 1669[15:51:53] <wwilliam> I added a user with usermod -aG newgroup user
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• 1671[15:52:05] <wwilliam> but i dont see the group being added?
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• 1674[15:53:20] <bkircher> wwilliam: yes
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• 1676[15:53:37] <wwilliam> Thank you
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• 1683[15:55:06] <dcpc007> hi, i try install a debian 9 on vmware with EFI boot.
• 1684[15:55:13] <dcpc007> at mirror choose i got errors
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• 1688[15:56:07] <dcpc007> replaced-url
• 1689[15:56:34] <dcpc007> my proxy config seems ok (pasted from a precedent install)
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• 1691[15:57:26] *** Quits: shahri (~shahri@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
• 1692[15:57:27] <joepublic> your pastebin says you are trying to install lilo instead of grub-efi on a system with efi-boot.
• 1693[15:57:53] *** Joins: Starz0r (~quassel@replaced-ip)
• 1694[15:58:28] <dcpc007> not seen any choice like this, i'm in the first steps at the install...
• 1695[15:59:24] <dcpc007> only steps were languages, detect hard, continue install via ssh and detect network
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• 1697[15:59:34] <dcpc007> current = choose-mirror
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• 1701[16:00:13] <dcpc007> and at the start of install (debian 9.6 netinst) i've seen the UEFI mode the splash screen
• 1702[16:00:30] <dcpc007> and little different output of first menu (fonts for example)
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• 1708[16:03:02] <joepublic> in any event, trying a different mirror such as deb.debian.org may help avoid the "stretch not supported" and "no route to host" issues.
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• 1712[16:04:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1477
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• 1716[16:05:13] <dcpc007> same
• 1717[16:05:17] <dcpc007> i'm in http
• 1718[16:05:31] <dcpc007> i try USA or France with different mirrors
• 1719[16:05:52] <dcpc007> all the same errors
• 1720[16:06:09] <dcpc007> ok ... i go restart in BIOS mode without gpt .. it was working
• 1721[16:06:28] *** Quits: luuke (~user@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
• 1722[16:06:47] <petn-randall> dcpc007: GPT is a partition layout. You can't change that in the BIOS. You probably mean UEFI mode?
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• 1729[16:09:08] <dcpc007> no but as a VM i must choose BIOS or EFI
• 1730[16:09:22] <dcpc007> (at vmware creation)
• 1731[16:09:28] <dcpc007> i was BIOS by default
• 1732[16:09:36] *** Quits: noodlepie (~Phillip@replaced-ip) (Max SendQ exceeded)
• 1733[16:09:53] <dcpc007> wanna try the EFI as i start the latest (stable) debian ...
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• 1736[16:10:45] <dcpc007> no more time left for the test ... back to BIOS boot And MSDOS part
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• 1740[16:11:55] <joepublic> efi has many advanced features, fewer limitations, is the latest thing, I should love it. GPT is likewise feature-laden and free of senseless, silly limitations, and I should want to embrace it and love it. Instead I use BIOS/legacy and MSDOS partition table everywhere I can. Two reasons, (1) there is less to learn about them so I have a more complete knowledge of them, and (2) (U)EFI and GPT seem to have more than their share of "Hmm that's
• 1741[16:11:56] <joepublic> odd, not working" issues
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• 1745[16:13:05] <cryptodan> ive converted all my systems to gpt and efi no issues
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• 1751[16:14:22] <joepublic> someday we will get to the point of "I see you problem, you are using the obselete (legacy bios|msdos partition table)..."
• 1752[16:14:34] <wwilliam> Why do I get permission denied when trying to mv a file in another user's dir the file has ownership otheruser and group ftp, file permissions are 770 and i belong to the ftp users group any help is appreciated.
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• 1756[16:14:53] <wwilliam> from anothe user home dir*
• 1757[16:15:03] <wwilliam> to my home dir
• 1758[16:15:04] <greycat> The owner of the FILE is not relevant. Moving/renaming a file is an operation that only affects directories.
• 1759[16:15:13] *** Joins: Myk267 (~myk267@replaced-ip)
• 1760[16:15:15] <greycat> You need write permission on each DIRECTORY that is to be modified.
• 1761[16:15:19] <joepublic> wwilliam, probably directory permissions
• 1762[16:15:26] <wwilliam> Thank you all
• 1763[16:15:44] <SwaggerArch> Got a problem with qbittorent stopped working
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• 1770[16:17:42] <SwaggerArch> It won't pick up link. It opens but I have to pull magnet link into the app and still force it to work. Then never shows the magnet downloading it is disappeared..
• 1771[16:18:04] *** Joins: rgr_D_DUP (~user@replaced-ip)
• 1772[16:18:28] <SwaggerArch> I tried to purge the install and reinstall app no luck.. Anyone have problems with qbittorent?
• 1773[16:18:40] <simpledat> How do I add a user to sudoers file?
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• 1776[16:19:09] <SwaggerArch> simpledat, google that is easy
• 1777[16:19:44] <wwilliam> Where do i place files where everyone can mv and create?
• 1778[16:19:45] <dcpc007> joepublic, thx, i've already been in the Legacy compatibility issues and choose to avoid it...
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• 1781[16:20:39] <dcpc007> don't know why i have this problem, but no time to analyse it, i must finish my template and adaptation of install deb8 to deb9 and finish create and configure 1 or 2 servers for tomorrow (bfore hollidays :) )
• 1782[16:20:51] <wwilliam> simpledat: replaced-url
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• 1784[16:20:54] <dcpc007> already creating part in bios/msdos
• 1785[16:21:00] <SwaggerArch> sudo usermod -a -G sudo <username>
• 1786[16:21:42] <joepublic> SwaggerArch, I think that's how to add "another" user. To "add a user" you might need to just log in as root or su - :)
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• 1788[16:22:49] <greycat> wwilliam: if you want a shared directory of some kind, the normal procedure is to create a group specific to this task/project, add users to that group, create the directory, chgrp the directory, chmod 2775 the directory (setgid on a directory has a SPECIAL meaning)
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• 1792[16:23:19] <greycat> wwilliam: and then the hard part: you somehow need to convince people to use a umask of 002 while writing to this one specific directory, even though they won't want to use that umask during normal operations
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• 1794[16:23:25] <simpledat> Thanks
• 1795[16:23:49] <greycat> Or, some people sidestep that by setting up a regular job to change the permissions of the files in the shared directory periodically, etc.
• 1796[16:24:06] <wwilliam> Thank you greycat but where in the server /media?
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• 1798[16:24:13] <greycat> wherever you WANT
• 1799[16:24:16] *** Joins: noln_ (~noln@replaced-ip)
• 1800[16:24:22] <greycat> it's YOUR computer, it's YOUR project
• 1801[16:24:40] <wwilliam> It can not be on anyones home dir
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• 1803[16:24:52] <joepublic> 'man hier' might give hints on where to make a directory for a particular thing
• 1804[16:24:52] <wwilliam> OK, Thank you greycat
• 1805[16:24:53] <greycat> That would be a really weird (poor) choice.
• 1806[16:24:56] <cryptodan> or setup a group and add people to that group you want to grant access to that directory
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• 1809[16:25:30] <greycat> Putting a shared directory inside someone's home directory would imply that this one person "owns" the project and everyone else is a second-class member.
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• 1811[16:26:17] <wwilliam> what is good practice to create it where?
• 1812[16:26:20] <SwaggerArch> greycat, git hub thought offered that kind of project data.. forget the app.
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• 1815[16:26:39] <cryptodan> what is the project name wwilliam ?
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• 1817[16:26:42] <SwaggerArch> git pull and push data.
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• 1819[16:27:03] <wwilliam> Just to put and remove files using ftp from a server
• 1820[16:27:12] <greycat> *plonk*
• 1821[16:27:16] *** Joins: noln (~noln@replaced-ip)
• 1822[16:27:37] <greycat> !ftp must die
• 1823[16:27:37] <dpkg> FTP MUST DIE! replaced-url
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• 1825[16:27:41] <wwilliam> but i need all users to have permissions to mv and delete
• 1826[16:27:42] <cryptodan> wwilliam: maybe /home/ftp and
• 1827[16:27:51] <wwilliam> Thank you
• 1828[16:27:53] <cryptodan> and add them to group ftp
• 1829[16:28:00] <greycat> Find someone else who still lives in 1994.
• 1830[16:28:00] *** Quits: rgr_D_DUP (~user@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
• 1831[16:28:01] <wwilliam> Thanks cryptodan
• 1832[16:28:09] <wwilliam> ha ha ha greycat
• 1833[16:28:10] <greycat> Maybe THEY will be willing to help you with fucking FTP.
• 1834[16:28:14] <wwilliam> Thank you all
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• 1836[16:28:35] <wwilliam> Reading greycat
• 1837[16:29:08] <wwilliam> Well that is what they use here, and very stubborn to change stuff, not my fault
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• 1839[16:29:17] <joepublic> FTP is the insecure telnet of file transfers
• 1840[16:29:32] <wwilliam> I know
• 1841[16:29:51] <wwilliam> I would use rsync over ssh
• 1842[16:30:01] <wwilliam> but they dont want to hear it
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• 1847[16:30:43] <joepublic> using ftp does save all that time you would otherwise have to take posting everyone's security credentials on an advertising sign
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• 1853[16:33:11] <inch> I use ftp in a vpn. It's a convenient way to upload stuff automatically from a script.
• 1854[16:33:59] <inch> But without vpn an with real people, nextcloud is not that difficult to install on Debian.
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• 1856[16:34:12] <joepublic> tbh, rsync over ssh is also pretty convenient
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• 1860[16:35:28] <inch> Yes, that too. In my example case there already were vpn keys, but no ssh-keys on the uploaders.
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• 1862[16:35:55] <joepublic> I am not saying I don't use ftp anywhere, just that my excuses are not good ones.
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• 1872[16:40:53] <wwilliam> cryptodan: who should own /home/ftp i know the group is gonna be ftp but own it? any user?
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• 1876[16:42:06] <cryptodan> wwilliam: generally ftp
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• 1881[16:43:21] <wwilliam> so i have to to create a user call ftp also
• 1882[16:43:24] <wwilliam> Thanks
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• 1898[16:47:13] <cryptodan> wwilliam: that would already be created when you install the ftp daemon
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• 1901[16:47:34] <wwilliam> I installed vsftpd
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• 1909[16:49:30] <cryptodan> wwilliam: look in /etc/passwd for the newly created user
• 1910[16:49:47] <wwilliam> I did no ftp
• 1911[16:49:54] <wwilliam> i created one ftpuser
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• 1914[16:50:11] <wwilliam> and made him owner of /home/ftp
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• 1917[16:50:19] <cryptodan> then thats the user
• 1918[16:50:30] <wwilliam> i created that one
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• 1921[16:50:43] <greycat> cryptodan: is he setting up *anonymous* FTP?!
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• 1924[16:51:57] <wwilliam> No i am not
• 1925[16:52:04] <wwilliam> I have a user list
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• 1949[17:05:59] <f0x> Can I disable TLS verification in wpa_supplicant?
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• 1956[17:11:07] <jhutchins_wk> wwilliam: Why not sftp?
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• 1962[17:15:17] <wwilliam> jhutchins_wk: they dont want to change anything
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• 1966[17:15:30] <Wulf> f0x: networkmanager says it can be done. So I assume it's also possible in wpa_supplicant
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• 1984[17:22:48] <wwilliam> how do I find the date the system was installed?
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• 1989[17:23:45] <annadane> i tend to just look at the oldest date in /var/log/apt/history.log.x.gz where x is the highest number (and oldest log)
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• 1993[17:25:14] <annadane> i'm unsure of other ways to check
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• 1995[17:25:28] <wwilliam> Thank you
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• 2000[17:26:42] <inch> wwilliam: You can also try dumpe2fs /dev/sda1 |grep ^Filesystem.created
• 2001[17:27:01] <inch> (If it's ext4 and the installation has not been cloned)
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• 2043[17:45:21] <wwilliam> inch: thank you checking
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• 2055[17:47:53] <wwilliam> inch: Thank you that is what i need it thanks
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• 2101[18:04:12] <wwilliam> greycat: I will send this to my bosses replaced-url
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• 2243[18:52:06] <chomwitt> who can 'dpkg -l w*' report what 'dpkg -l' reports AND uninstalled packages? how can dpkg know that?
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• 2246[18:52:14] <chomwitt> who->how
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• 2249[18:53:28] <mutante> chomwitt: "un" means "unpacked" not "uninstalled" though
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• 2254[18:54:12] <mutante> " The package is unpacked, but not configured."
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• 2260[18:55:08] <chomwitt> mutante: thanks. but even in that case , why would happed that in a new fresh installation?
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• 2266[18:56:53] <mutante> chomwitt: i think some packages dont need configuration so they are simply unpacked and that's it
• 2267[18:57:45] <mutante> chomwitt: for example i see i have "w3m" installed and that is certainly status "ii" but then there are others like "w3m-ssl" or "w3m-img" that got pulled in by it and they are "un". i read that as "did not need config, just had to be unpacked"
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• 2272[18:58:47] <mutante> chomwitt: also if i look at one, with "apt-cache show w3m-ssl" i am told that "Can't select versions from package 'w3m-ssl' as it is purely virtual" so these are not 'real" packages
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• 2275[18:58:58] <mutante> they are virtual packages to pull in other ones by dependency
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• 2280[19:01:53] <Voldenet> Is it true that weboob will be removed from the repo?
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• 2282[19:03:32] <Voldenet> I'm asking because it sounds like some fake news
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• 2284[19:03:59] <greycat> ,v weboob
• 2285[19:04:00] <judd> Package: weboob on amd64 -- wheezy: 0.c-4.1; jessie: 1.0-3; stretch: 1.2-1; buster: 1.3-2.1; sid: 1.3-2.1
• 2286[19:04:03] <blackflow> you can always pip install it
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• 2291[19:04:29] <Voldenet> link to said 'news': replaced-url
• 2292[19:04:51] <blackflow> so you've seen the full bug report and resolution of it?
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• 2306[19:10:42] <Voldenet> not yet, but I didn't know debian had such policy on package naming
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• 2318[19:13:14] <blackflow> it's not just the name of the package though, it's its tools like "handjoob" and a bit more
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• 2321[19:13:41] <blackflow> personally I don't care if it's removed (if I need it, it's a pip install away) but I can totally see why someone would want to drop it.
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• 2328[19:15:21] <Voldenet> I don't use this specific package, naming conventions are silly
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• 2336[19:16:49] <Voldenet> but I don't like seeing "someone will be insulted" card as a removal reason
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• 2338[19:16:53] <blackflow> I'd also totally nuke a package where devs deliberately restore homophobic insults that were cleaned up from comments in previous commits. that is way beyond innuendo in a package name.
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• 2340[19:17:31] <blackflow> it's a matter of common decency and civilized behavior, way beyond someone being insulted by "boobs"
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• 2343[19:18:37] <mutante> what's wrong about handjobs?
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• 2345[19:19:06] <mutante> votes for replaced-url
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• 2351[19:20:17] <Voldenet> After seeing this, I won't defend the creators of this package
• 2352[19:20:26] <Voldenet> but I still dislike political removals
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• 2359[19:21:36] <blackflow> Voldenet: but debian being "libre" is all about politics, just a different kind
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• 2363[19:24:50] <joepublic> political ~= by policy. policy is good, policy is our friend.
• 2364[19:25:02] <mutante> is that even political or is it more religious reasons
• 2365[19:25:10] <blackflow> precisely. especially for debian, the politics of Libre, DFSG and free vs non-free.
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• 2367[19:25:34] <joepublic> policy and anarchy are opposite ends of a spectrum. Guess which builds better operating systems.
• 2368[19:25:55] <mutante> anarchy means absense of hierarchy not absence of order
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• 2371[19:26:43] <blackflow> order is very hard to establish without a hierarchy. you get a lot of "FU, you don't get to tell me how i'll maintain my packages", when you ask them to consider a better approach that benefits the general public.
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• 2373[19:26:47] <joepublic> yes, the "arch" in there is the same root in "architect" meaning "chief." without hierarchy, policies are so local as to not be policies.
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• 2375[19:26:56] <Time-Warp> replaced-url
• 2376[19:27:02] <Time-Warp> theres an anti harassment team?
• 2377[19:27:14] <mutante> blackflow: it's called "finding consenus", it's done succesfully in many places
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• 2379[19:27:48] <joepublic> operating system by consensus is done, but has never been done by debian.
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• 2381[19:28:04] <joepublic> And I don't think today's the day, either
• 2382[19:28:18] <blackflow> mutante: yes and in some/many it is not done successfully.
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• 2385[19:28:50] <blackflow> Time-Warp: what do you think?
• 2386[19:29:06] <mutante> blackflow: true, but that still doesn't change that "anarchy and policy are opposite" is incorrect
• 2387[19:29:38] <blackflow> I'll have to agree with that.
• 2388[19:30:19] <mutante> you can have policies, it's just about who gets to write them and if it's top-down or not. anyways i think we already agree, yea :)
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• 2390[19:31:39] <blackflow> Having been on the receiving end of such "FUs", I enjoy the policy-heavy debian and.... order it facilitates.
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• 2398[19:34:59] <Voldenet> Okay, let me rephrase, I hope "someone feels insulted about this" policy is suppressed at some point
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• 2401[19:35:40] <mutante> that kind of policy just doesn't scale
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• 2403[19:35:56] <blackflow> pretty sure this wasn't only about somoene feeling insulted by "boobs"
• 2404[19:36:11] <blackflow> the packages is nastier than just its name.
• 2405[19:36:13] <blackflow> *package
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• 2425[19:42:47] <joepublic> I am reminded of a software for windows called "convertlit" which used to have a shorter, more likely to be objectionable name, that did not spell out the word "convert" and which focused on its function and not on causing friction, and adopted a similar but less problematic name.
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• 2430[19:46:33] <Voldenet> I hope nobody notices that mkvtoolnix has ` · Substation Alpha (SSA) / Advanced Substation Alpha scripts (ASS)` line
• 2431[19:46:41] <Voldenet> it's literally nasty
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• 2452[20:05:55] <PaddyF> does firefox-sync have issues when you block incoming traffic?
• 2453[20:06:11] <PaddyF> i only get a blank page
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• 2455[20:06:55] <jelly> Voldenet: can't escape from ASS when that's the way those subtitle formats are named
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• 2458[20:08:52] <PaddyF> there we go, changed INPUT policy from DROP to ACCEPT and firefox-sync works
• 2459[20:08:57] *** Parts: broesel (~broesel@replaced-ip) ()
• 2460[20:09:21] <blackflow> PaddyF: I guess you need a rule to allow established,related flows on INPUT
• 2461[20:09:44] <PaddyF> ESTABLISHED, yes. sure. but RELATED could be dangerous
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• 2464[20:11:08] <PaddyF> so whats special about firefox accounts.* i am curious :P
• 2465[20:11:16] <blackflow> iirc RELATED is smart and protocol specific. it's not as if a wild SYN appears and pwns the box.
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• 2468[20:11:44] <PaddyF> smart for what purpose?
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• 2471[20:12:03] <Voldenet> jelly: it could've beeen ASA to avoid this - I'm fairly sure authors of the extension name did that on purpose
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• 2473[20:12:09] <blackflow> protocol specific RELATED flows, eg. FTP data connections
• 2474[20:12:19] <mimi89999> Hello
• 2475[20:12:23] <PaddyF> i didnt use ftp in 10 years
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• 2478[20:12:39] <iosecure> ESTABLISHED means that the packet is associated with a connection which has seen packets in both directions. RELATED means that the packet is starting a new connection, but is associated with an existing connection, such as an FTP data transfer, or an ICMP error.
• 2479[20:12:43] <PaddyF> except for webbyfied setups
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• 2481[20:13:08] <mimi89999> How to verify the nickname on the Debian IRC server?
• 2482[20:13:43] <PaddyF> so the smartness of RELATED is that it allows an application to talk to port Y when port X is ESTABLISHED?
• 2483[20:13:54] <greycat> mimi89999: does "/msg nickserv help" work?
• 2484[20:14:06] <mimi89999> It does.
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• 2487[20:14:13] <mimi89999> But I got no explanation.
• 2488[20:14:18] <blackflow> PaddyF: protocol specific
• 2489[20:14:28] <PaddyF> i dont need that
• 2490[20:14:34] <jelly> mimi89999: /msg nickser help register
• 2491[20:14:40] *** Quits: hakash_ (~hakash@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
• 2492[20:14:43] <mimi89999> I registered.
• 2493[20:14:43] <jelly> mind the typo.
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• 2495[20:14:51] <mimi89999> But I still can't join.
• 2496[20:14:57] <greycat> Did you identify>
• 2497[20:15:05] <jelly> mimi89999: yes. Read that help message.
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• 2499[20:15:21] <jelly> -NickServ- To complete the registration, the nickname must be VERIFIED. To verify
• 2500[20:15:21] <jelly> -NickServ- your nick, go to replaced-url
• 2501[20:15:21] <jelly> -NickServ- password, and follow the instructions there.
• 2502[20:15:28] <greycat> ah.
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• 2509[20:17:23] <OS-41163> join #offsec
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• 2511[20:17:48] <mimi89999> replaced-url
• 2512[20:17:52] <jelly> -OS-41163- VERSION HexChat 2.14.1 / Linux 4.17.0-kali1-686 [i686/2.00GHz/SMP]
• 2513[20:18:08] <mimi89999> jelly: Thanks. This is what I get when asking the nickserv
• 2514[20:18:11] * jelly sighs at kali defaulting the hexchat package to join here
• 2515[20:18:28] <blackflow> 686 o.O
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• 2517[20:18:43] <PaddyF> but he is a DD!
• 2518[20:19:02] <jelly> how can you tell their size from there?
• 2519[20:19:10] <PaddyF> :P
• 2520[20:19:20] *** Joins: hakash (~hakash@replaced-ip)
• 2521[20:19:35] <mimi89999> jelly: Where did you find this info?
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• 2523[20:19:59] <jelly> mimi89999: in /msg nickserv help register
• 2524[20:20:08] <jelly> on OFTC
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• 2528[20:21:12] <mimi89999> Now I see it
• 2529[20:21:43] <mimi89999> I think that is should be in the general help as people who know how to register don't help register.
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• 2531[20:22:05] <mimi89999> It is not obvious that it is where info about verification can be found.
• 2532[20:22:06] <greycat> You are expected to be able to use the help command.
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• 2534[20:22:25] <mimi89999> `REGISTER: Registers a nickname for your usage.`
• 2535[20:22:31] *** Quits: rgr_D_DUP (~user@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
• 2536[20:22:31] <greycat> *plonk*
• 2537[20:22:41] <mimi89999> Where do they day that is is about verification as well?
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• 2540[20:23:08] <iosecure> It's part of the registration process.
• 2541[20:23:13] <mimi89999> For me register is register.
• 2542[20:23:24] <iosecure> Commands have "output." You are expected to read it.
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• 2545[20:24:28] <mimi89999> I didn't help register because I remembered how to register on IRC.
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• 2548[20:24:36] <jelly> mimi89999: we can't help fixing /msg NickServ help from OFTC. You can ask about the right way to do fix that bit of online help in #oftc channel on that network.
• 2549[20:24:46] <mimi89999> OK
• 2550[20:24:50] <mimi89999> I will
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• 2552[20:25:32] <jelly> irc services are not standardized in ANY serious way, do not expect them behaving in similar ways on different networks
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• 2554[20:25:58] <jelly> irc is a bunch of adhockery and NIH
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• 2561[20:28:41] <PaddyF> ah, there is a way to log with a magical config setting
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• 2564[20:29:38] <mimi89999> jelly: Thanks a lot for your help.
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• 2588[20:44:54] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o eir
• 2589[20:44:55] *** eir sets mode: -bo *!*@185.90.61.180 eir
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• 2608[20:51:09] <Sia-> #hardware
• 2609[20:51:15] <jhutchins_wk> The severs on different networks run different versions of software too.
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• 2620[20:53:05] <EdePopede> and then modules. and network's own extensions.
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• 2630[20:55:00] <mimi89999> Hello
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• 2632[20:55:18] <joepublic> hello, greetings, and welcome back mimi89999
• 2633[20:55:23] <mimi89999> I'm using Debian testing
• 2634[20:55:37] <mimi89999> I have an issue with Gajim on Wayland.
• 2635[20:56:04] <joepublic> yeah, testing has lots of issues. hence the name.
• 2636[20:56:22] <joepublic> thanks for volunteering to troubleshoot them.
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• 2644[20:59:56] <getrat> Weboob.
• 2645[21:01:30] <SerajewelKS> i don't think the weboob removal had barely anything to do with the package name, it was more to do with a lot of the code comments which contain slurs
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• 2649[21:02:32] <n4dir> thefuck sure is still available, i would consider that programname more insulting.
• 2650[21:03:52] <SerajewelKS> who does it insult?
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• 2652[21:04:14] <EdePopede> both have "Section: python" - coincidence?
• 2653[21:04:16] <n4dir> "insulting" was the wrong word. it sounds more harsh then weboob.
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• 2655[21:04:31] <SerajewelKS> yes but weboob was not removed just because of the package name
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• 2662[21:05:24] <n4dir> SerajewelKS: yes, i tried to support that suggestion, a name only doesn't seem to suffice.
• 2663[21:05:36] <SerajewelKS> people are fixating on the package name but AIUI, that wasn't the only reason for removal
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• 2665[21:06:30] <mimi89999> .
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• 2668[21:07:27] <BCMM> I think the thing where it's all about the name comes from a bunch of people reading that troll post on reddit without actually clicking through to the official discussions
• 2669[21:08:02] <blackflow> and the slashdot clickbait
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• 2671[21:08:44] <mimi89999> I reported the issue to Gajim, but they suggested that it is an issue with libgtk-3 and that they can't sat anything else as I don't have debug symbols
• 2672[21:08:49] <SerajewelKS> there was at least one error message i saw in the source code which contained a slur, though not in the version in debian
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• 2677[21:09:24] <mimi89999> The libgtk-3-0-dbg package was last available in Jessie.
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• 2680[21:10:09] <mimi89999> Here is the trace: replaced-url
• 2681[21:10:37] <mimi89999> I don't know what package to report this issue against.
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• 2707[21:22:30] <PaddyF> blackflow: my idea failed in various ways which means your suggestion wins :D
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• 2717[21:28:34] <blackflow> PaddyF: firefox sync?
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• 2726[21:31:15] <joepublic> mimi89999, perhaps the support folks for testing can suggest what package to report a bug against.
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• 2736[21:34:45] <PaddyF> blackflow: yep :)
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• 2738[21:35:41] <PaddyF> allowing *.sync.*.mozilla.com did not help. it requires the "RELATED" traffic to be allowed
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• 2740[21:36:28] <joepublic> RFC 12, "second cousin packet twice removed" ?
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• 2747[21:38:28] <PaddyF> oh
• 2748[21:38:41] <PaddyF> i made that mistake only here
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• 2761[21:44:21] <nzhuk98> Hello, when I use krunner to switch windows, the window I select from search results is raised but not focused. I can't find any mentions of this behavior in my searches so far. Is this by design, a bug, or is there a setting I need to apply. Under "Window Behavior" settings, I have Click To Focus and I tried with Focus stealing prevention set to Low (default) and None. Any ideas would be much appreciated.
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• 2764[21:46:42] <nzhuk98> ... this is up to date stretch and nothing relevant from backports
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• 2771[21:49:26] <jpw> nzhuk98: that sounds like a bug
• 2772[21:50:11] <jpw> perhaps raise a bug report and see what the maintainers say?
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• 2775[21:51:03] <nzhuk98> jpw: that will be my next step if nobody here has any other suggestions.
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• 2784[21:54:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1457
• 2785[21:54:04] <noln> #kde,#plasma. oftc has #debian-kde
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• 2803[22:03:24] <getrat> Debian is now a "Judendistributionen".
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• 2805[22:04:16] <Tenkawa> eh?
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• 2811[22:07:01] <nzhuk98> noln: thanks
• 2812[22:07:03] <jeddi> nzhuk98: in all my kde time i've never even noticed i could alt-f2 to switch to a different window. i just tried it now - focus and raises as i'd expect that to work (i'm on sid)
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• 2819[22:11:25] <nzhuk98> jeddi: so it's probably a bug and i'll have to live with it until buster. Will see if anyone in #debian-kde has any other ideas.
• 2820[22:11:40] <getrat> Tenkawa: I refer to how Jews have clearly started doing their thing after infiltrating this project too, causing all sane people to flee, leaving only a dead corpse behind, as has happened with FreeBSD, Linux and countless important tech projects.
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• 2822[22:12:28] <BCMM> so is there some way to find an op in this channel, or what?
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• 2824[22:13:24] <watchcat> nzhuk98: you can use devilspie to adjust window focus settings to your precise liking.
• 2825[22:13:46] <watchcat> among other things.
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• 2829[22:15:05] <watchcat> i use it to prevent popups from stealing focus when i'm entering a password, which is seriously insecure.
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• 2834[22:17:19] <greycat> dpkg, weboob is <reply>It's not just the name. It uses gratuitously sexual icons, and derogatory/inflammatory language in its output. See <replaced-url
• 2835[22:17:20] <dpkg> okay, greycat
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• 2837[22:17:51] <BCMM> greycat: do the source code comments not merit a mention?
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• 2840[22:18:19] <greycat> Do you have a link for them?
• 2841[22:18:40] <BCMM> greycat: oh nevermind. i actually though that message in the link was a comment
• 2842[22:18:54] <BCMM> (when i first saw it it was with some odd comments)
• 2843[22:19:09] <BCMM> ^thought
• 2844[22:19:23] <digdilem> greycat, plenty of comment and links in here; replaced-url
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• 2846[22:19:54] <altker128> Curious what you guys think about ufw vs. writing ip-tables rules by hand
• 2847[22:20:15] <altker128> (I know the purist will look down upon ufw or anything that's a bit of an abstraction)
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• 2850[22:20:42] <altker128> (I normally work with pf)
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• 2852[22:21:06] <watchcat> i use it. works fine.
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• 2854[22:21:36] <Tenkawa> its all personal preference
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• 2857[22:26:09] <iosecure> I use ufw.
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• 2891[22:40:52] <karlpinc> altker128: I like using ferm. Clear and efficient firewalls.
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• 2893[22:41:12] <karlpinc> altker128: (I also like pf. :)
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• 2895[22:41:45] <iosecure> Huh. That looks neat.
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• 2897[22:41:56] <karlpinc> altker128: If you use ferm you still need to be able to read iptables.
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• 2921[22:55:06] <altker128> karlpinc: Thanks! Looking more closely at ufw, it doesn't look like it handles masquerade/forwarding rules and you have to set those up outside of ufw --> seems like a waste to use ufw then
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• 2930[22:57:39] <SwaggerArch> hello
• 2931[22:57:44] <SwaggerArch> Hello having trouble with update to codec58 from codec57 anyway to go back upgraded my parrotOS?
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• 2934[22:58:29] <joepublic> I am having trouble parsing that into sentences or phrases
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• 2937[22:58:51] <SwaggerArch> Really what I want to know is the difference in package management from Arch Linux to debian is there a website that can explain this
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• 2941[22:59:19] <joepublic> arch docs, replaced-url
• 2942[22:59:31] <watchcat> he upgraded something on parrtos and wants to put it back the way it was.
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• 2944[23:00:22] <joepublic> oh. I missed the connection to debian, I guess.
• 2945[23:00:25] <altker128> what the hell is parrotOS?
• 2946[23:00:28] <altker128> Yeah
• 2947[23:00:31] <greycat> !parrot
• 2948[23:00:31] <dpkg> Parrot OS (replaced-url
• 2949[23:00:31] <SwaggerArch> watchcat, nice but like understand the database idea in ammending packages.. not the rosetta.. read that 100 times
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• 2951[23:01:16] <altker128> Well, package management in Debian is pretty sensible
• 2952[23:01:18] <SwaggerArch> greycat I all ready got that site.. thanks trying to understand debian and a system based on debian
• 2953[23:01:23] <ryouma> i use "aptitude search "?narrow(?installed,?not(?archive(stable)))" | grep -v '^i A'"
• 2954[23:01:29] <ryouma> oops
• 2955[23:01:49] <altker128> (I think the screen output of yum is cleaner but that's off topic)
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• 2961[23:02:42] <ryouma> why does "aptitude search "?narrow(?installed,?not(?archive(stable)))" | grep -v '^i A'" return fewer results than "aptitude search '?narrow(?version(CURRENT),?origin(Debian Backports))' -F '%100p'"? the latter includes stuff from backports but the former does not. is backports stable from aptitude's perspective?
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• 2964[23:03:05] <SwaggerArch> Not what I'm getting at? Want to know how they determine it be safe or unsafe to use package and how and upgrade brings in a new package with clearly unsupported dependencies?
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• 2966[23:03:11] <altker128> karlpinc: Can I ask you a few quick ferm questions?
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• 2971[23:03:30] <altker128> SwaggerArch: If you want to upgrade a package in Debian, it will tell you what new packages it will bring in
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• 2975[23:03:46] <altker128> i.e. apt-get upgrade ; you'll get a list of what it will do
• 2976[23:03:57] <joepublic> all of debian testing is unsupported, much less some random $os based on it
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• 2979[23:05:07] <SwaggerArch> joepublic, thank you joepublic .. So who decides the common PPA or Stable packages for Linux distro?
• 2980[23:05:27] <greycat> ... the WHAT?!
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• 2983[23:05:38] <ryouma> also, why does "aptitude search '?and(?not(auto), ?narrow(?installed, ?not(?archive(stable))))'" include automatically installed packages? same thing if you substitute narrow for and.
• 2984[23:05:50] <altker128> PPA is some jacked up Ubuntu thing
• 2985[23:06:22] <altker128> SwaggerArch: For a given release of Debian (i.e. Jessie, Stretch, etc) you can see what packages are included and which versions
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• 2987[23:06:33] <joepublic> a ppa (not related to debian) is a *Personal* Package Archive, i.e., not a common thing, but rather a random person's packages. so there is no such thing as 'deciding common ppa'. As to what packages go into parrotos, you will have to talk to--wait for it--the parrotos people.
• 2988[23:06:47] <greycat> The notion that there is a common set of stable packages across multiple Linux-based operating systems is ludicrous.
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• 2991[23:07:17] <greycat> Even across multiple Debian-based derivative OSes, it's laughable.
• 2992[23:07:30] <blackflow> greycat: nah, they're called flatpaks and snaps and appimages :)
• 2993[23:07:43] <SwaggerArch> Thanks Now I got the answer I was seeking..
• 2994[23:07:47] <greycat> People who want to use that shit are welcome to try.
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• 2999[23:08:09] <greycat> Just ... don't come here when it breaks.
• 3000[23:08:15] <blackflow> sure, just saying they're AN answer to cross-distro stable packages.
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• 3002[23:08:43] <joepublic> in the same way, making a bootable live distro separate for each alien package is AN answer.
• 3003[23:08:52] <SwaggerArch> greycat, already broke just wanted to know the risks I am in?
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• 3005[23:09:10] <greycat> How would we know? You're apparently not even running Debian.
• 3006[23:09:13] <altker128> AppImage is a good concept
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• 3008[23:09:26] <altker128> Snaps...another Ubuntu bastardization
• 3009[23:09:31] <SwaggerArch> Lol yes in Arch Machine right now lol
• 3010[23:09:49] <SwaggerArch> virtual box to my parrot OS ..
• 3011[23:10:09] <greycat> Neither of which are supported here.
• 3012[23:10:14] <spidget> what's good about AppImage?
• 3013[23:10:14] <joepublic> It would be hard to overstate how little anyone in this channel cares about any parrotos installation.
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• 3015[23:10:43] * watchcat bellylaffs
• 3016[23:10:51] <SwaggerArch> joepublic, lol.. yes I catch this in every forum...what fun linux users are..
• 3017[23:11:08] <greycat> So you are a self-confessed multiple time troll.
• 3018[23:11:11] <greycat> *plonk*
• 3019[23:11:12] <altker128> spidget: IMO all dependencies, libraries, etc are bundled together, so you don't have the issues with incompatible libraries or having to upgrade/install
• 3020[23:11:22] <joepublic> we have a channel where we like to have fun talking about parrotos, it's called #debian-offtopic. It's not *this* channel.
• 3021[23:11:43] <altker128> spidget: Down side (potentials) are security and disk usage due to redundant bundling of libraries/packages
• 3022[23:11:44] <SwaggerArch> joepublic, thanks I'm gone
• 3023[23:12:12] <blackflow> joepublic: even better, #parrotsec :)
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• 3025[23:12:20] <SwaggerArch> byebye
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• 3027[23:12:36] <joepublic> it is specifically for things that are offtopic in here, but still important and relevant to debian in some way, yeah nevermind, see you.
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• 3033[23:13:58] <spidget> more ram usage as well i guess altker128. sounds like it's for proprietary stuff really
• 3034[23:14:23] <blackflow> personally I don't see why flatsnappimage wouldn't be supported here, just like any other package. "halp I can't run tmux" should be at the same level with "halp I can't use snapd". containers _installed_ by them, are another story, and "go talk to the vendor".
• 3035[23:14:39] <altker128> spidget: Possibly. It's good IMO for people to distribute "proprietary" software (i.e. Matlab or something like that)
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• 3038[23:15:31] <blackflow> spidget: it's for containerized software delivery, so you can install them with a single command, isolated and not worry about clobbering your apt packages.
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• 3040[23:16:09] <blackflow> sure you could debootstrap a chroot and run stuff there, but flatsnappimage are a convenient, "standardized" way to do so.
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• 3042[23:16:34] <blackflow> that said.... my experience with snaps, on and off ubuntu, has been miserable.
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• 3046[23:17:17] <blackflow> like everything else in FOSS, they're abused for nonsense like gnome calculator being delivered as a container....... let that sink for a while.
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• 3051[23:17:57] <altker128> Yeah. Talk about abuse of a concept!
• 3052[23:18:03] <joepublic> so each little gnome applet can pull in all the dependencies of gnome separately, in random versions? That sounds useful and sane.
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• 3055[23:18:47] <watchcat> never tried one. have used the occasiinal statically-compiled package.
• 3056[23:18:48] <blackflow> joepublic: that's exactly it, yes :)
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• 3058[23:20:11] <blackflow> joepublic: ubuntu does that unfortunately, combines two different versions of gnome stuff, and delivers the said calculator and some other things as snaps.
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• 3085[23:30:11] <spidget> "AppImage format is ideal for upstream packaging, which means that you get the software directly from the original author(s) without any intermediaries, exactlyin the way the author(s) intended. And quickly." - riddled with spyware and unpatched security holes? also, needs a space after 'exactly'.
• 3086[23:30:16] <spidget> yeah, not sold.
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• 3090[23:30:52] <blackflow> spidget: that's both the virtue and the flaw of flatsnappimages.
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• 3095[23:32:31] <ntd> greycat, ping
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• 3104[23:35:47] <BCMM> i think the entire windows ecosystem goes to show that application developers are not the right people to decide how an application should be deployed
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• 3107[23:36:31] <BCMM> e.g. of course my application in particular is important enough that it should permanently run in the system tray
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• 3150[23:59:01] <SerajewelKS> BCMM: steam *eyeroll*
• 3151[23:59:18] *** Joins: Mr_Keyser_Soze (~Mr_Keyser@replaced-ip)
• 3152[23:59:45] <SerajewelKS> also chrome and discord don't need to be there
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