• 0[00:03:09] <somiaj> JordiGH: I suspect most point and shoot camearas will fit your needs, though maybe once you find one you like, go read some reviews, both in terms of usablity, quality of pictures, and features (just make sure the features are simple and not something like 'upload pictures directly to instagram' or 'wifi'
• 1[00:03:59] <somiaj> most should be able to connect to your machine via usb mass storage, but they should use an sd card, and just getting an sd card reader and pulling data off the card directly is always an option
• 2[00:05:29] <JordiGH> Alright, thanks.
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• 5[00:08:25] <somiaj> (even if they use the new media protocol over usb, linux supports that, but it is just annoying that more things don't use usb mass storage and give you direct access to the data -- though I supect this to be less an issue on a camera whose data on the sd card doesn't expose the system)
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• 64[01:38:46] <JordiGH> Parted manual says...
• 65[01:39:01] <JordiGH> "This manual used to introduce the reader to these systems and theirworking. This content has moved to the GNU Storage Guide."
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• 67[01:39:07] <JordiGH> The GNU storage guide doesn't exist, does it?
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• 69[01:40:36] <JordiGH> Huh, looks like it used to be found at alioth.
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• 73[01:45:06] <somiaj> most of gnu docs are in non-free in debian.
• 74[01:48:16] <somiaj> JordiGH: where are you sing this, man parted has "Complete documentation is distributed with the package in GNU Info format.", or have you tried info parted?
• 75[01:48:49] <JordiGH> Right, in the actual manual.
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• 80[01:58:45] <somiaj> yea, I too found the dad link on aloith, wonder if that moved to salsa
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• 85[02:02:11] <JordiGH> ¿Dónde está la salsa?
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• 94[02:09:02] <Dat> It seems like rc-local.service is unable to start how can I reoslve this?
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• 97[02:13:02] <Dat> fixed
• 98[02:13:04] <Dat> nevermind
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• 101[02:15:10] <somiaj> JordiGH: salsa.debian.org, it is what replaced alioth, but I didn't find anything in my searches. Wonder if anyone has an archive of alioth.
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• 108[02:22:20] <JordiGH> Yeah, I knew about salsa. I just thought it was a clever pun. Well, is it a pun? I figured it was a joke about people asking for source -> sauce -> salsa.
• 109[02:24:26] <gateway2000> interesting theory...
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• 111[02:25:16] <gateway2000> maybe someone else can *chip* in their thoughts...
• 112[02:25:44] <gateway2000> *dip* into the history a little bit...
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• 114[02:27:12] <somiaj> JordiGH: my spanish is bad, for some reasion I thought you were asking what is salsa, not where is it...
• 115[02:27:54] <somiaj> and by bad, I took a year of spanish in highschool 20+ years ago now, so bad is an understatement.
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• 118[02:41:22] <Unit193> somiaj: replaced-url
• 119[02:44:46] <somiaj> replaced-url
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• 139[03:34:10] <JordiGH> gateway2000: Not all salsas are for dipping. You wouldn't dip into Worcestershire sauce, another salsa.
• 140[03:34:33] <gateway2000> this is true
• 141[03:34:43] <cluonbeam> How does one define a salsa, here?
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• 143[03:38:01] <gateway2000> all i know is salsa is spanish for sauce and salsa is also the name of a project within debian
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• 146[03:40:17] <cluonbeam> There's a serious conflation of concepts, here. While salsa IS Spanish for sauce, salsa also has a specific definition when used in other languages, specifically a spicy tomato-based sauce.
• 147[03:41:06] <cluonbeam> If you wanted to call it "Salsa Worcestershire," then that's fine, because that's literally "Worcestershire Sauce" in Spanish. But that does not make it a salsa as "salsa" is translated into English. </pedant>
• 148[03:41:32] <gateway2000> soy salsa
• 149[03:41:51] <cluonbeam> Wrong. "Salsa de soja."
• 150[03:42:05] <cluonbeam> ;)
• 151[03:42:11] <gateway2000> gracias
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• 170[04:13:11] <pfred1> anyone know when Debian 11 is coming out?
• 171[04:13:20] <dvs> !wwbr
• 172[04:13:20] <dpkg> it has been said that wwbr is now Debian "Bullseye" is the current testing branch as of 2019-07-06 and it will be released "when it's ready."
• 173[04:13:31] <dvs> guess not
• 174[04:13:37] <sney> going by release history, probably sometime in late summer/autumn 2021
• 175[04:13:55] <pfred1> dang I don't know if I can wait that long
• 176[04:13:57] <sney> but the freeze hasn't even started yet so we're still in <wir> territory
• 177[04:14:32] <sney> you can always upgrade early. I'm running bullseye on 3 machines right now. testing at this point in the dev cycle is more stable than some distros' actual releases :P
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• 179[04:15:05] <pfred1> yeah I've run testing but the whole idea doesn't sit well with me
• 180[04:15:38] <cluonbeam> sney: That's generally not good advice. If stability is important to you, you run stable.
• 181[04:15:38] <pfred1> I kinda like Debian because it is so stable
• 182[04:15:44] <sney> guess you'll have to be patient then
• 183[04:15:54] <gateway2000> pfred1 maybe run testing in a vm or something and help with release block testing
• 184[04:15:59] <dvs> pfred1, what do you need that's new?
• 185[04:16:25] <pfred1> dvs I forget now but I was trying to build something recently and the libs i have were too old
• 186[04:16:31] <sney> cluonbeam: it depends on the use case. I'm not going around telling everyone to use testing. but if someone is champing at the bit for bullseye, then it's available for them to use, that's all
• 187[04:16:53] <pfred1> dvs I'm starting to feel the age
• 188[04:17:15] <dvs> pfred1, I prefer the stability over new stuff
• 189[04:17:45] <gateway2000> sney I run stable because I like stable but I'm definitely looking forward to upgrade hardware so I can help with testing
• 190[04:17:52] <gateway2000> in a vm
• 191[04:17:57] <pfred1> dvs most stuff I'm OK with it being older but soem stuff I like new
• 192[04:17:57] <sney> nod
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• 194[04:18:38] <pfred1> gateway2000 I plan on getting a new SSD to install to
• 195[04:18:51] <sney> pfred1: depending on how core those outdated libs were, you may be able to backport them to stable (or there may be a backport available if enough people had the same issue before you did)
• 196[04:19:09] <pfred1> sney backporting really messed me up once
• 197[04:19:18] <sney> the debian packaging tools make backporting a mostly automated process as long as you don't need to modify the source or add/remove patches
• 198[04:19:34] <sney> it can get hairy *occasionally* but mostly it's just 3 commands and install the debs
• 199[04:19:35] <pfred1> got me to a point where i couldn't upgrade anymore
• 200[04:19:45] <gateway2000> pfred1 if you can identify what specifically you want to upgrade that would be a start
• 201[04:19:49] <sney> that's definitely an edge case.
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• 203[04:20:11] <pfred1> gateway2000 right now my cmake is giving me problems
• 204[04:20:33] <gateway2000> there's an upgraded cmake in backports already
• 205[04:20:36] <pfred1> I'm hoping to just upgrade out of it
• 206[04:20:52] <pfred1> as opposed to figure out what's going on
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• 210[04:21:29] <pfred1> as good as Debian may be it isn't entirely perfect
• 211[04:21:44] <dvs> pfred1, blasphemy!
• 212[04:22:10] <pfred1> dvs you dig deep enough and you'll find onconsistencies
• 213[04:22:20] <sney> what we lack in perfection we more than make up for with a community willing to figure out solutions
• 214[04:22:20] <pfred1> inconsistencies even
• 215[04:22:35] <gateway2000> idk how to use the tools in here but here take a look: replaced-url
• 216[04:22:38] <sney> the archive is just way too big to consistently test all of it
• 217[04:22:57] <sney> judd: versions cmake
• 218[04:22:58] <judd> Package: cmake on amd64 -- jessie: 3.0.2-1+deb8u1; stretch: 3.7.2-1; buster: 3.13.4-1; stretch-backports: 3.16.3-1~bpo9+1; buster-backports: 3.16.3-3~bpo10+1; bullseye: 3.16.3-3; sid: 3.18.2-1
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• 222[04:23:59] <pfred1> I got a problem where my cmake doesn't seem capable of picking up my wxWidgets
• 223[04:24:07] <sney> looks like the bullseye version. but I'm sure there were other deps as well, especially if the upstream for the project you were trying to build is exclusively testing/building on a newer ubuntu
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• 226[04:26:40] <gateway2000> pfred1 If you believe debian 11 will resolve your problem regarding cmake, and there is a backported version from 11 of cmake available for debian 10, it could be worth trying the backported version. That won't necessarily resolve the specific issue, but certainly worth a shot
• 227[04:27:04] <pfred1> gateway2000 I don't believe anything until I see it but I'm hopeful
• 228[04:27:34] <gateway2000> :-)
• 229[04:27:42] <pfred1> gateway2000 I've had bad experiences running backports
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• 231[04:28:03] <pfred1> was more like my back was up agaisnt a wall
• 232[04:28:22] <gateway2000> pfred1 the issue you mentioned: was that from pulling from the debian backports official, or was that you trying to build a backport yourself?
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• 234[04:28:50] <pfred1> gateway2000 it was just an install was with my video driver as i can recall
• 235[04:28:50] <somiaj> backports are compadable with buster and work well (there are a few edge issues due to how pinning works), but if you always install from stable then upgrade to backports, you can avoid most of them.
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• 237[04:29:35] <pfred1> at one point apt wanted to uninstall my whole system
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• 240[04:29:56] <gateway2000> it sounds like there was some issues for sure
• 241[04:30:06] <pfred1> yeah I wasn't smiling
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• 243[04:30:16] <sney> that sounds like maybe you tried to upgrade your whole system to backports, not install a specific package. it says in the instructions not to do that
• 244[04:30:18] <gateway2000> but that's not how using backports usually works
• 245[04:30:21] <somiaj> I haven't had issues with backports, espically the kernel and firmware with it.
• 246[04:30:34] <gateway2000> right, what sney said
• 247[04:30:38] <pfred1> somiaj neither did I until I did
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• 249[04:30:59] <sney> the only problem I've ever had with backports was a stretch-bakports package breaking an upgrade to buster. but it was pretty easy to resolve once I realized that was the issue
• 250[04:31:12] <somiaj> you just have to be careful what you run when you add the -t buster-backports flag, as pinning changes the prioprity quite a bit.
• 251[04:31:30] <pfred1> I only did an upgrade once and it went OK mostly I just fresh install
• 252[04:31:32] <Unit193> Sometimes apt install package/buster-backports is better.
• 253[04:31:48] <somiaj> and as I mentioned, always install the stable version first, then upgrade, this can minimize the number of depends that get pulled from backports.
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• 256[04:32:13] <gateway2000> yeah i never use pinning, i just have the backport repo in sources.list and use the -t flag if i want something. by default stable remains priority
• 257[04:32:52] <pfred1> I always safe-upgrade
• 258[04:32:58] <pfred1> sounds safe
• 259[04:32:59] <gateway2000> somiaj that is good advice
• 260[04:33:43] <pfred1> the one system I did a dist-upgrade on I eventually reinstalled
• 261[04:34:10] <somiaj> gateway2000: backports using pinning by default and the -t flag changes the pinning, so you are using it, even if you don't configure it yourself.
• 262[04:34:52] <somiaj> pfred1: do you use a lot of thrid party software? I've been upgrading some systems for years with no issue.
• 263[04:34:54] <gateway2000> you're right. i was unclear, i meant that i don't manually use apt-pinning other than in that case
• 264[04:35:12] <gateway2000> apt-pinning is too scary for me
• 265[04:35:17] <pfred1> somiaj I keep third party software in my home directory
• 266[04:35:19] <somiaj> I was just pointing out that pinning isn't the best system for backports IMO, but it is what we have, so there are some things to be carefula bout.
• 267[04:35:34] <pfred1> somiaj I do not mess with the root system
• 268[04:35:56] <pfred1> maybe /usr/local rarely
• 269[04:36:03] <gateway2000> I remember crunchbang used apt pinning but other than pulling from backports with -t, haven't looked back
• 270[04:36:22] <pfred1> somiaj but i use ~/bin for stuff I add
• 271[04:37:07] <pfred1> somiaj I don't do make install
• 272[04:38:37] <pfred1> I do have a bit in /usr/local about a half a gig
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• 274[04:40:01] <sney> my third party goop tends to end up in /opt, I have 1.5GB in there currently
• 275[04:40:08] <pfred1> looks like a lot of snake eggs
• 276[04:40:09] <sney> either one is a good approach though
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• 278[04:40:57] <pfred1> I use this one weird python script that needs things where it can find it
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• 282[04:42:28] <pfred1> sney resolve went into /opt and it is huge
• 283[04:42:41] <pfred1> 2.3G
• 284[04:43:16] <pfred1> I was helping someone get it to run and I got it running here
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• 288[04:44:16] <sney> video editing is heavy duty yeah
• 289[04:44:31] <pfred1> yeah I can't say I've ever used it but it runs
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• 291[04:45:04] <pfred1> used strace on it to figure out what it needed
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• 293[04:46:14] <pfred1> he was pretty impressed i figured it out
• 294[04:47:24] <sney> I do my occasional video editing in kdenlive and that's only about 60MB on disk. but it uses a lot of kde internals so there's efficiency gained that way
• 295[04:48:01] <pfred1> I don't have KDE installed
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• 298[04:48:24] <pfred1> I haven't liked it since 3.5
• 299[04:48:36] <pfred1> I used to run Trinity
• 300[04:48:46] <sney> good thing it's all subjective and debian gives you choices
• 301[04:48:49] <pfred1> but it's kind of weird
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• 303[04:49:18] <pfred1> they had to hack QT to avoid collisions
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• 305[04:51:06] <pfred1> so I had to get away from that weirdness
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• 307[04:53:10] <pfred1> sney I'm not sure how many choices Debian gives us but we can make some choices for ourselves
• 308[04:53:51] <pfred1> sney I've lost some fights with the package manager
• 309[04:55:31] <pfred1> I still get cold sweats thinking of dselect
• 310[04:55:35] <sney> apt is very powerful and specific, so yes it's possible to get in over your head
• 311[04:56:08] <sney> but it's also the glue that holds debian together, so when that happens to me, I take the time to solve the problem properly
• 312[04:56:18] <sney> sometimes it's quite a bit of time.
• 313[04:56:31] <pfred1> I usually just throw my hands up and walk away
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• 315[04:57:40] <somiaj> thrid party stuff outside of /usr and not using .deb's won't get in the way of upgrades.
• 316[04:57:56] <sney> at least until you run out of disk space
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• 318[04:58:17] <pfred1> this system has 6 TB of disk space
• 319[04:58:25] <sney> that's a lot of disk space.
• 320[04:58:35] <pfred1> yeah it's OK
• 321[04:58:53] <pfred1> I'm still getting a new SSD before I upgrade though
• 322[04:59:14] <pfred1> I want a 1 TB
• 323[04:59:18] <pfred1> better leveling
• 324[04:59:30] <sney> the last time I dealt with a system that had that much it was a storage server for an office, shared among 15 or so people
• 325[05:00:04] <pfred1> I have a NFS server too
• 326[05:00:40] *** fightthe1alrus is now known as fightthewalrus
• 327[05:00:41] <pfred1> it is shared on my LAN
• 328[05:01:03] <pfred1> it's persistent storage
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• 330[05:01:27] <pfred1> there's files on it going back over 20 years
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• 333[05:02:53] <pfred1> Linux ain't like Windows
• 334[05:03:14] <pfred1> we get to keep our files if we want to
• 335[05:03:34] <somiaj> Anyways, back to debian, it is worth learning how to work with debian, sometimes called the debian way, and it will be sold system that can be upgraded for years though multiple releases. Things aren't always smooth, but they are most of the times fixable if you take the time to figure it out.
• 336[05:03:39] <rockworld> I have a question do we need to create our own dns nameserver if I want a Fully qualified domain name ?
• 337[05:04:03] <somiaj> rockworld: most registars offer a dns server you can use.
• 338[05:04:06] <sney> usually if you want a fqdn you pay a provider to assign it to your ip address
• 339[05:04:16] <pfred1> somiaj I ran Debian in 1997
• 340[05:04:37] <sney> cloudflare has that service for "free" but I'm sure they're still getting something out of you.
• 341[05:05:01] <somiaj> pfred1: until the hd died on my debian destkop, the only reason I reinstalled between 2000 and now was due to switching from i386 to amd64, and my amd64 install was the same since 2006 until my drive craped out on me
• 342[05:05:35] <pfred1> somiaj sometimes i miss 32 bit
• 343[05:06:04] <sney> I still have 1 32-bit x86 machine. it's low power and useful, but I'll still probably recycle it next time I move
• 344[05:06:06] <somiaj> I think you miss the simplicity of software in the day vs now, more than 32bit in particular. The arch isn't that important.
• 345[05:06:28] <rockworld> cause Im trying to learn how to make my own vm with proxmox I thought it was needed to attribute my ip to my vm
• 346[05:07:04] <pfred1> I was never any good at networking
• 347[05:07:20] <somiaj> rockworld: you shouldn't need a fqdn for that. I use /etc/hosts for my vms (mostly because I'm unsure if libvirt has one I can use)
• 348[05:07:50] <somiaj> rockworld: why proxmox? (just courious why you chose that over say libvirt using qemu-kvm or some other open solution.
• 349[05:08:13] <sney> rockworld: proxmox isn't supported in #debian. but broadly, you can use an appliance on your network (such as your router) to make resolvable host names for hosts within your LAN. if your router can't do that, you can use dnsmasq, and it's a *lot* less complicated than a full provider-level dns server
• 350[05:08:14] *** Quits: zeden (~user@replaced-ip) (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
• 351[05:08:35] <rockworld> somiaj: because of the interface and its one of the most popular
• 352[05:08:39] <somiaj> rockworld: there are two may options to give vm's ipaddress, one is you set up a virtual local network, and then use dnsmasq + ipforwarding, the other is you turn your interface into a bridge, then the vms are part of the same network as the host.
• 353[05:09:20] <sney> !proxmox
• 354[05:09:20] <dpkg> Proxmox Virtual Environment (Proxmox VE) is a GNU/Linux distribution <based on Debian>, providing a virtualization platform with <LXC> and <KVM>. It is not supported in #debian. There's an unofficial proxmox channel on Freenode. For official venues, see ##replaced-url
• 355[05:09:44] <somiaj> rockworld: might depend on what you are looking for, I think promox seems fairly popular for companies and enterprise solutions due to the support they get, but the open source alternatives are widely used, supported in debian, and some are far easier to get up and running.
• 356[05:10:09] <sney> having a point-and-clicky interface is fine for learning the basics, but nobody uses proxmox in production. once you understand VMs it may be in your best interest to switch to a more professional platform
• 357[05:10:20] <rockworld> I just need to setup a good hypervisor for my server and ip no matter which one I choose :)
• 358[05:10:47] <somiaj> sney: am I confusing proxmox with some other setup, seend to be fairly popular on vps about 10 years ago.
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• 360[05:11:03] <sney> you are probably thinking of xen
• 361[05:11:09] <rockworld> but thanks for the help Im gonna read about that
• 362[05:11:44] <somiaj> I think it was parallels or something like that. It was some full setup that came with cpanel and various other tools.
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• 364[05:12:00] <sney> xen is still pretty good but the only advantages it has over libvirt/kvm stuff are proprietary
• 365[05:12:28] <rockworld> I think ovh might have their distribution
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• 368[05:13:31] <somiaj> I don't nkow much about xen's proprietary stuff, but I thought a lot was speed and resource management due to a shared kernel vs a full virtualization, thogh I guess if using lxc/docker/ there are alternatives to that too.
• 369[05:13:48] <rockworld> is it based on debian?
• 370[05:13:59] <somiaj> xen isn't a distro
• 371[05:14:07] <sney> xenserver is based on centos, last I checked, but the software itself can be used on any linux
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• 373[05:14:12] <rockworld> right thats a package?
• 374[05:14:19] <somiaj> xen is a virtualization system which uses a shared kernel, and requires third party kernel modules.
• 375[05:14:40] <sney> if you want to get into virtualization on debian, start here: replaced-url
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• 377[05:16:13] <sney> and yep somiaj xen's shared resource advantages were a big deal in 2010 or so, but containers have pretty much left them in the dust in that regard.
• 378[05:16:15] <rockworld> I will switch back to debian 10.5 now and try this instead thanks
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• 384[05:17:25] <somiaj> rockworld: virt-manager makes a lot of setting up vms fairly painless for point and click types
• 385[05:21:02] <rockworld> thanks
• 386[05:21:42] <rockworld> so it would be easier if I install xfce I think
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• 388[05:22:25] <somiaj> I find a gui nice, since spice/vnc will be easiy setup with virt-viewer to access the vm.
• 389[05:23:18] <sney> I used to put windowmaker on vms because it's tiny on disk and is too confusing to other sysadmins for them to be able to break it
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• 391[05:24:12] <somiaj> I need to better figure out how to install vms on a headless server. My solution (due to being lazy), was install it on my desktop, then copy it over to the server.
• 392[05:24:36] <somiaj> mostly it is accessing the vm duing the install, and virt-viewer is mostly seemless
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• 395[05:25:20] <sney> I *really* like smartos for a datacenter platform. it's not linux but the debian images are completely stock, and I think I got used to the vmadm tool in 1 hour
• 396[05:26:25] <sney> and it's all backed with zfs so it's like "you want a debian vm with 16gb of disk space? *copy-on-write cheating noises* all done"
• 397[05:27:59] <somiaj> as a hobbiest who got assigned server manager of our deparments servers, I just go with what I know, since I really only have about 2-3 hours a week of my job to server admin, the rest is my actual job
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• 401[05:31:36] <rockworld> so libvirt is virsh?
• 402[05:32:00] <rockworld> Im confuse
• 403[05:32:53] <sney> kvm is the driver, libvirt is the library, virsh is the utility. they are all pieces of the same thing
• 404[05:33:37] <somiaj> you can use kvm-qemu without libvirt, but it helps a lot (so you don't have to manually write out all the command line options, networking issues, etc)
• 405[05:33:43] <rockworld> I will take note
• 406[05:34:06] <somiaj> and virsh or virt-manager are two utilities to talk to libvirt to control the vms (one is a cli utility, the other a gui)
• 407[05:35:02] <somiaj> but with starting libvirt and using virt-manager will hide a lot of the details form you and not take to much to setup. Since the modules are all built into the linux kernel, the only real thing you may have to do is turn the virtualization options on in your bios (often off by default)
• 408[05:35:08] <rockworld> you are the best teacher
• 409[05:35:12] <rockworld> thanks a lot
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• 411[05:36:06] <rockworld> I do that on a dedicated server that I rent to ovh
• 412[05:36:12] <rockworld> I hope its turned on
• 413[05:36:13] <somiaj> well I should say firmware, since bios doesn't apply to uefi, but still call it bios.
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• 443[06:25:28] <OzFalcon> sbuild appends the architecture to the end of the .deb filename, Is it possible to make it also append the distribution?
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• 460[06:47:11] <somiaj> ugg, apache proxypass is way harder to configure than ngnix, but ngnix doesn't have a openidc module...:/
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• 483[07:32:17] <Keeperax> Enabled Bluetooth, scanning shows MAC addresses instead of device names. I remember fixing this before but I forgot how
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• 485[07:34:29] <Keeperax> [bluetooth]# scan on
• 486[07:34:29] <Keeperax> Discovery started
• 487[07:34:29] <Keeperax> [CHG] Controller 38:00:25:63:EE:AC Discovering: yes
• 488[07:34:29] <Keeperax> [NEW] Device 76:B1:C5:FA:39:A9 76-B1-C5-FA-39-A9
• 489[07:34:37] <Keeperax> All devices appear like so
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• 494[07:42:36] <Keeperax> Enabled Bluetooth, scanning shows MAC addresses instead of device names. I remember fixing this before but I forgot how
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• 496[07:43:12] <Keeperax> [bluetooth]# scan on
• 497[07:43:12] <Keeperax> Discovery started
• 498[07:43:12] <Keeperax> [CHG] Controller 38:00:25:63:EE:AC Discovering: yes
• 499[07:43:12] <Keeperax> [NEW] Device 76:B1:C5:FA:39:A9 76-B1-C5-FA-39-A9
• 500[07:44:58] <diogenes_> beefnog, why don't you use the gui?
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• 524[08:25:55] <nickname123> does anyone else have flickering when he's resizing a window while ffmpeg is using 100% cpu in a command line window?
• 525[08:26:23] <nickname123> there is (almost) no flickering with 5.4.61-xanmod1 #0~git20200827.723c400 SMP PREEMPT Thu Aug 27 11:05:42 UTC 2020 x86_64 GNU/Linux
• 526[08:26:40] <somiaj> nickname123: is this a debian question, that does not sound like a debian kernel.
• 527[08:26:43] <somiaj> what os are you running
• 528[08:26:49] <nickname123> Debian GNU/Linux bullseye
• 529[08:27:25] <somiaj> use #debian-next on irc.oftc.net for bullseye support, but that kernel is not standard, so you won't get support for a non-debian kernel.
• 530[08:27:28] <somiaj> ,kernels
• 531[08:27:29] <judd> Available kernel versions are: experimental: 5.8.0-trunk-686-pae (5.8.3-1~exp1); sid: 5.7.0-3-686-pae (5.7.17-1); bullseye: 5.7.0-3-686-pae (5.7.17-1); buster-backports: 5.7.0-0.bpo.2-686 (5.7.10-1~bpo10+1); buster: 4.19.0-10-686 (4.19.132-1); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.9-686-pae (4.19.118-2+deb10u1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.19.0-0.bpo.10-686-pae (4.19.132-1~deb9u2); jessie-backports:
• 532[08:27:30] <judd> 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.12-686 (4.9.210-1+deb9u1~deb8u1)
• 533[08:30:38] <nickname123> sid: 5.7.0-3 <-- it happens in this kernel, too. in all the 5.7 kernels so far. in the debian 5.4 kernel too. it doesn't happen with the xanmod kernels 5.4 and 5.7, but happens with 5.8 (iirc)
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• 535[08:31:43] <nickname123> [08:27] <somiaj> use #debian-next on irc.oftc.net for bullseye support <-- thx. i'll visit that channel
• 536[08:31:44] <somiaj> could also depend on the window manager you are using. This seems like a strange edge case, and debian kernels aren't going to be optimized for certain things.
• 537[08:32:44] <nickname123> it's probably KWin, since i'm using KDE
• 538[08:33:07] <nickname123> i've installed Xfce too. i'll try it there
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• 547[08:42:18] <nickname123> o no, flickering almost didn't happen anymore with the debian 5.7 kernel. i guess i should have notet down which kernel was running. or it happens sometimes and sometimes it doesn't happen
• 548[08:42:42] <nickname123> but with the debian 5.4 kernel flickering happened in KDE but not in Xfce
• 549[08:43:08] <nickname123> should i just wait for a KWin update?
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• 558[08:51:57] <rjsalts> What's an alternative to driconf? If I just write to .drirc do I need to restart X?
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• 571[09:01:56] <shantaram> what does the debian-live-amd64-standard iso contain?
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• 574[09:02:23] <shantaram> It's only 897MB so i'm wondering if it has a live session or not
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• 576[09:02:54] <sney> standard has the standard system utilities, no gui
• 577[09:03:02] <shantaram> oh ok
• 578[09:03:05] <shantaram> can't have that
• 579[09:03:07] <shantaram> thanks
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• 775[10:11:45] <gry> how can i import virtualbox vm in virt-manager?
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• 778[10:19:32] <zamnedix> gry: first step would be to convert the disk image from virtualbox format to a more qemu-friendly one like qcow2. see the qemu-img tool
• 779[10:20:31] <zamnedix> gry: then create a new machine in libvirt with a similar configuration to the virtualbox one and add the disk
• 780[10:21:05] <ratrace> you'll have to VBoxManage convert from vdi to raw image for qemu to use. it is not necessary to convert from raw to qcow, only if you so want.
• 781[10:22:59] <zamnedix> the qemu-img tool supports raw, qcow2, vdi, and many other formats. i dont know anything about the virtual box tools
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• 783[10:25:07] <ratrace> seems like you're correct. I guess I'm used to the old ways.
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• 850[11:48:41] <rocketmagnet> hi everyone, i have a fesh debian 10.2 or so version and after installing there seems to be a nvidia driver named nvidia present, i want to use the binary drivers - how can i get rid of the default one ?
• 851[11:49:35] <ratrace> 10.5 would be "fresh" . the "default" is nouveau which is just available in regular kernel packages. install nvidia-driver and it'll set itself up automatically
• 852[11:49:38] <Haohmaru> fesh debian?
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• 864[11:57:09] <newuser444467899> I cant change mouse accel in debian 10.5 xfce in mouse and touchpad applet
• 865[11:58:13] <gry> ratrace: "you'll have to VBoxManage convert from vdi to raw image for qemu to use."
• 866[11:58:21] <gry> ratrace: there is gui for this in virtualbox, correct?
• 867[11:58:40] <ratrace> for this low level stuff I don't think so. could be wrong, haven't touched VB in many years.
• 868[11:59:24] <ratrace> had to use VBoxManage to convert formats and configure things like using whole actual GPT partition as "virtual" disk for vbox. Idon't remember there was gui for that back then
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• 874[12:02:18] <rocketmagnet> hi everyone
• 875[12:03:30] <rocketmagnet> i try to install the binary drivers from nvidia but my system seems to have already some kind of drivers installed. how can i remove those (i get the error that nvidia_modeset is in use
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• 879[12:04:49] <diogenes_> rocketmagnet, apt list --installed | grep -i nvidia
• 880[12:05:04] <diogenes_> should show you what you have installed ^^^
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• 882[12:05:50] <rocketmagnet> diogenes_: replaced-url
• 883[12:06:07] <newuser444467899> I cant change mouse accel in debian 10.5 xfce in mouse and touchpad applet. Why?
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• 885[12:06:37] <rocketmagnet> diogenes_: i just have ever used the binary installer, so just get rid of nouveau and then i was able to install the binary
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• 888[12:07:12] <diogenes_> rocketmagnet, so doesn't your nvidia driver work? it seems like working, run: glxinfo | grep -i "opnegl renderer"
• 889[12:07:36] <ratrace> rocketmagnet: how come you don't have the "nvidia-driver" package installed too? how did you install it really?
• 890[12:07:44] <rocketmagnet> i think it does, but i would like to use the binary drivers, they are more advanced and i do alot with 3d
• 891[12:07:49] <newuser444467899> Uploaded file: replaced-url
• 892[12:07:50] <newuser444467899> Uploaded file: replaced-url
• 893[12:08:08] <rocketmagnet> that all out of the box, i haven't done much
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• 895[12:08:24] <gateway2000> hard to say newuser444467899. what has your research turned up?
• 896[12:08:25] <diogenes_> i don't believe that's out of the box.
• 897[12:08:41] <diogenes_> rocketmagnet, Debian doesn't ship nvidia out of the box.
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• 899[12:09:22] <ratrace> it's not. one has to enable the nonfree repo which isn't default on debian
• 900[12:09:27] <rocketmagnet> i have the latest stable downloaded yesterday and just installed it, i haven't yet done something to the graphics
• 901[12:09:30] <newuser444467899> gateway2000 i change accel and sens but nothing changed
• 902[12:09:36] <rocketmagnet> yes, the repos
• 903[12:09:39] <rocketmagnet> that was me
• 904[12:09:39] <ratrace> rocketmagnet: "downloaded"?
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• 906[12:09:57] <rocketmagnet> for my usb driver to install
• 907[12:10:00] <ratrace> sorry I thought you meant the driver
• 908[12:10:03] <rocketmagnet> drive
• 909[12:10:09] <ratrace> which ISO?
• 910[12:10:43] <rocketmagnet> 16 gig sd drive
• 911[12:11:03] <ratrace> but which ISO file did you download?
• 912[12:11:17] <ratrace> anyway, your apt list shows nvidia-driver-bin but no nvidia-driver package. so how did you install it? it certainly did not come pre-installed with debian.
• 913[12:11:30] * ratrace puts $5 toward "This ain't debian"
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• 917[12:13:43] <newuser444467899> Please help me to change mouse accel and sens in debian 10.5 xfce
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• 920[12:15:05] <rocketmagnet> ratrace: what does it matter, i have amd64
• 921[12:15:13] <rocketmagnet> the first dvd
• 922[12:15:24] <ratrace> rocketmagnet: because if that isn't debian, we can't possibly know what your problem is and how to fix it
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• 925[12:15:37] <ratrace> rocketmagnet: on debian, one runs "apt install nvidia-driver", reboots, and that's it.
• 926[12:15:46] <ratrace> (after enabling non-free repo and running "apt update", yes)
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• 930[12:17:19] <ratrace> (for bonus driver points, one enables buster-backports and installs 440.100 from it, as stable provides 418.152)
• 931[12:17:42] <ratrace> so I guess tht wasn't Debian after all. mkay.
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• 934[12:21:30] <ratrace> btw... as a side note... I've been playing latest games in debian steam, windows-only games through steam's proton and debian's vulkan packages..... so all that crap about Debian is too old, too ancient, to play games? just crap.
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• 945[12:32:53] <rocketmagnet> hi again
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• 947[12:35:26] <wyoung> hi rocketmagnet
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• 957[12:42:33] <rocketmagnet> hi
• 958[12:45:26] <ratrace> replaced-url
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• 962[12:47:09] <rockworld> hi everyone, I need help to understand what is the difference between eth1 and enp4s0 cause on proxmox my interface name was enp4s0 and eth1 on debian10.5 Im a bit scared to broke the file when editing thank you very much if you can help to figure this
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• 964[12:48:26] <rockworld> I think thats a different name they use for the ethernet card ?
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• 966[12:49:22] <ratrace> rockworld: ethX is "default" kernel name for the interface. udev then renames it into a "predictable" name based on certain naming rules, like pci slot, type of devices (usb, pci, wifi, ...) and more
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• 968[12:49:47] <ratrace> rockworld: you can enforce only ethX used so udev never renames them. I use that because "predictable" is everything _but_ predictable.
• 969[12:50:55] <ratrace> and bug reports exist where removing unrelated hardware will rename your NIC because bios is broken or something and pci geometry changes
• 970[12:52:01] <rockworld> I will translate thank you
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• 974[12:56:24] <ratrace> rockworld: btw, by default, debian uses the predictable naming scheme. you must override that with, say, "net.ifnames=0" on kernel command line if you don't want udev renaming
• 975[12:56:38] <ratrace> so if your debian has ethX, it's probably already set up like that
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• 980[13:01:05] <rockworld> alright so I should keep the name like its in the configuration, I need to create a bridged network for my vm and I dont know the name of the hardware just changed
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• 982[13:02:10] <rockworld> I had br0 and vmbr0
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• 984[13:02:36] <ratrace> rockworld: that's the problem with "predictable" names. it's difficult to actually predict them in advance, but they're supposed to stay that way on each boot, where ethX may suffer from device reordering on boot, if you have multiple eth NICs
• 985[13:02:46] <rockworld> thats the first time I do it so Im just trying to figure what to do cause thats the part where I alway broke my configuration
• 986[13:02:59] <ratrace> rockworld: those however are not hardware NICs so their names depend on how you've set them up
• 987[13:03:11] <ratrace> (the (vm)brX names)
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• 991[13:07:38] <rockworld> where do I have to check to set them up
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• 994[13:08:06] <rockworld> Im sorry my english is not very good
• 995[13:09:26] <rockworld> so that means I can use eth1 eth0 br0 in my configuration
• 996[13:09:37] <rockworld> I have 2 ethernet card
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• 1000[13:17:19] <algun> Is the reason why the 64-bit x86 called "amd64" legacy?
• 1001[13:17:24] <algun> *is
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• 1004[13:19:54] <jelly> algun, mostly because the company who created the 64bit extensions to x86 first named it like that
• 1005[13:19:58] <jelly> !amd64
• 1006[13:19:58] <dpkg> amd64 is the Debian architecture optimized for x86-64, aka AMD64. Intel Core 2, Core i3/i5/i7 and Xeon (since 2004) systems are x86-64. The AMD64 architecture also supports running Debian i386 with either a -686-pae or -amd64 kernel. See also <why amd64> and <why not amd64>.
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• 1008[13:20:23] <jelly> !why amd64
• 1009[13:20:23] <dpkg> The Debian architecture that runs on 64-bit processors from AMD and Intel is called "amd64" because the architecture was first developed by AMD. AMD64 is variously known as x86-64, x64, IA-32e, EM64T and Intel 64 (most of which are the Intel marketing people changing their mind). replaced-url
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• 1013[13:22:34] <algun> I'd rename amd64 and i386 architectures as x86-64 and x86-32. I see that even Ubunut still calls uses the old name(s?), but it sounds archaic (no pun intended).
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• 1017[13:29:28] <crusoe> how to set up my printer for debian?
• 1018[13:30:15] <algun> with difficulty or not at all
• 1019[13:30:45] <jelly> algun, those strings are embedded in many places and it would take hundreds of hours of work for that purely cosmetic change. It's not going to happen
• 1020[13:31:08] <algun> jelly, yep, sounds like legacy
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• 1022[13:31:53] <algun> or we just find and replace everything and see what breaks XD
• 1023[13:32:17] <algun> shove it into unstable *ducks*
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• 1032[13:40:49] <jelly> algun, Debian has a pretty good idea of what would break; This change would be unlikey to happen even if you're willing to sponsor a couple hundred hours of work, maybe 10000-50000eur of work
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• 1034[13:42:31] <algun> not that I would but that's steep
• 1035[13:43:37] <jelly> that's how much you'd have to pay for work done by debian developers / debian maintainers on the market
• 1036[13:44:17] <jelly> (ask the Debian LTS people what's their hourly rate -- that work is sponsored)
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• 1042[13:55:29] <deadrom> heya
• 1043[13:56:01] <deadrom> can one use DVR HDDs for RAID5/6?
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• 1045[13:57:35] <ratrace> "DVR HDDs"?
• 1046[13:57:49] <zamnedix> deadrom: yeah, gonna have to clarify what you mean by that
• 1047[13:58:00] <deadrom> surveillance application disks
• 1048[13:58:12] <deadrom> digital video recording
• 1049[13:58:15] <zamnedix> oh yeah, i use those personally, the seagate skyhawks
• 1050[13:58:24] <zamnedix> they work fine
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• 1053[14:00:29] <deadrom> zamnedix, my information might be outdated, but a few years back word was "a DVR disk will rather skip a write error and not go back and nibble on that sector but rather allow the video to have an artifact block in the picture than falling below the write bitrate for continuous recording"
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• 1055[14:01:17] <deadrom> I don't know if that's a) still true and b) if RAID5/6 would be resistant to those and on array scrubs detect the error
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• 1058[14:03:10] <ratrace> deadrom: a) don't know, b) it should assuming sufficient redundancy is available
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• 1060[14:03:35] <zamnedix> im no disk expert deadrom - being honest, i mostly bought mine cause they had a longer warranty than the normal versions.
• 1061[14:06:22] <deadrom> I'll call Seagate and ask. I feel they owe me that after recently a 4TB drive croaked 10 days after warranty expired
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• 1080[14:27:39] <NetTerminalGene> is it possible wayland causes mouse lag sometimes?
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• 1083[14:28:09] <NetTerminalGene> my mouse lags sometimes
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• 1085[14:29:58] <deadrom> NetTerminalGene: tried another mouse? same mouse ok on another computer with X, windows, osx?
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• 1087[14:30:45] <NetTerminalGene> deadrom: yes, other mouses are also lag.
• 1088[14:31:11] <NetTerminalGene> i didn't try on other systems
• 1089[14:31:23] <NetTerminalGene> it lags rarely
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• 1107[14:41:12] <ratrace> NetTerminalGene: GNOME+wayland?
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• 1112[14:44:34] <NetTerminalGene> ratrace: yes
• 1113[14:44:35] <rgr> tried just about every resource google throws at me and I cant disable ipv6
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• 1115[14:44:50] <ratrace> NetTerminalGene: there were some bug reports about mouse severely lagging in previous versions of GNOME; I don't know if taht was fixed for buster's 3.22 or requires a later version, so it will be fixed in bullseye.
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• 1120[14:45:17] <ratrace> NetTerminalGene: I think I've read it being fixed for 3 point 30-something, but I'm not sure
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• 1122[14:45:25] <NetTerminalGene> ratrace: buster has 3.30
• 1123[14:45:37] <NetTerminalGene> but my mouse doesn't lag severely
• 1124[14:45:40] <ratrace> NetTerminalGene: ah, yes, my bad
• 1125[14:45:44] <deadrom> I'm surprised someone actually uses Wayland.
• 1126[14:46:10] <NetTerminalGene> deadrom: it is default for buster
• 1127[14:46:15] <ratrace> like whole fedora and debian who default to wayland for their defautl gnome installations? :)
• 1128[14:46:35] <NetTerminalGene> yes
• 1129[14:46:42] <deadrom> oO
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• 1132[14:47:40] <deadrom> gets me one step closer to leaving linux on servers and going windows for desktop
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• 1134[14:47:52] <ratrace> rgr: I don't think disabling IPv6 is that easy, it's a core protocol and in many places IPv4 is handled through IPv6 code blocks
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• 1136[14:48:11] <deadrom> rgr, why do you need v6 disabled?
• 1137[14:48:26] <ratrace> definitely not possible without recompiling all the packages that touch it, and the kernel
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• 1144[14:51:43] <zamnedix> rgr: "net.ipv6.conf.all.disable_ipv6=1" in /etc/sysctl.conf
• 1145[14:51:52] <zamnedix> rgr: "sysctl -w" it for one-time
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• 1147[14:53:04] <rgr> because it simply doesnt work. Im constantly getting pages not found when connecting via my tp link extender. Ive another PC with an older debian and I just appended a line to sysctl.conf and issues sysctl -p and thats now fine and connected via a ip 4 address. its alöso easier with ssh but thats another issue.
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• 1149[14:53:29] <rgr> zamnedix, yup I tried that
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• 1151[14:54:46] <deadrom> rgr, I don't mean to dosge the issue but have you tried bypassing said TP link extender?
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• 1153[14:55:18] <zamnedix> thats the official, documented way to disable ipv6. i dont know what to tell you if it really doesnt work for you. you may have a kernel with an obscure configuration.
• 1154[14:55:52] <jelly> there's also a kernel boot option
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• 1156[14:55:55] <jelly> !noipv6
• 1157[14:55:56] <dpkg> From Debian 6.0 "Squeeze" onwards, <IPv6> is built into the Linux kernel (excluding the loongson-2f flavour). To disable IPv6, add the kernel command line option ipv6.disable=1 to your bootloader.
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• 1176[15:09:01] <cluonbeam> You shouldn't be disabling ipv6 at all.
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• 1187[15:18:22] <rgr> so I can look at fb, read my gmail, connect herem but as an example of a site that says "no internet" replaced-url
• 1188[15:18:38] <rgr> this is with ipv6 via my new tplink extender.
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• 1190[15:18:59] <rgr> some kind of cache to flush maybe?
• 1191[15:19:57] <cluonbeam> rgr: Stop trying to disable ipv6. Figure out the actual issue.
• 1192[15:20:24] <rgr> right... if you want to help please do. else .. This IS with ipv6 enabled.
• 1193[15:20:49] <rgr> and why I might have to resort to disabling it.
• 1194[15:21:02] <cluonbeam> !paste
• 1195[15:21:02] <dpkg> Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: replaced-url
• 1196[15:21:11] <cluonbeam> rgr: Let's start with the output of 'ip a' and 'ip r'.
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• 1199[15:24:30] <rgr> ip r nothing . ip a. replaced-url
• 1200[15:24:42] <cluonbeam> What does "nothing" mean?
• 1201[15:25:16] <cluonbeam> How are you configuring your network interface?
• 1202[15:25:37] <rgr> nothing. No output. standard gnome networking gui.
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• 1204[15:26:00] <rgr> no manual intevention in interfaces etc or fiddlig with supplicants.
• 1205[15:26:02] <cluonbeam> NetworkManager, then.
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• 1207[15:26:38] <cluonbeam> Right now, how do you have IPv4 configured?
• 1208[15:27:32] <rgr> I dont change anything. bog standard out of the box working for ages setup. ipiv works fine and is the default when connecting to my main router rather than the extender.
• 1209[15:27:59] <rgr> but my extender wont let me connect wit ipiv. Im awaiting support from tplink on that one.
• 1210[15:28:06] <rgr> ip4
• 1211[15:28:35] <cluonbeam> That's your problem, not ipv6. IPv6 is working just fine. Your problem is that that extender isn't passing DHCP messages from your router.
• 1212[15:28:48] <cluonbeam> You're unable to reach sites that don't yet have IPv6 connectivity to the internet.
• 1213[15:28:48] <rgr> yes it is. as I said most sites work. many dont.
• 1214[15:29:04] <rgr> right.
• 1215[15:29:11] <cluonbeam> The REASON that that's happening is that because those DHCP messages don't pass, you don't get an IPv4 address.
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• 1228[15:40:53] <nulleip> using systemd, there is only fstab to change defaults for tmpfs mounts?
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• 1230[15:41:45] <ratrace> nulleip: fstab doesn't set generic defaults, it manages specific mountpoints
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• 1232[15:42:20] <ratrace> so if those mountpoints are listed in fstab, yes that's where you'd change options for them. alterntaively you can use .mount units directly, as fstab is converted into them anyway
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• 1234[15:42:35] <ratrace> *alternatively
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• 1236[15:43:13] <nulleip> ratrace: understand, I found this replaced-url
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• 1239[15:43:39] <nulleip> ratrace: but I am wondering from where debian gets its defaults
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• 1241[15:43:53] <msl09> ok I'm taking a beatdown from the debian installer. I keep getting an error while partitioning the disks
• 1242[15:44:12] <msl09> "Failed to create file system"
• 1243[15:44:35] <ratrace> nulleip: look at the mount(8) manpage for listed defaults. I don't know if those can be changed with a config files
• 1244[15:44:36] <msl09> I have checked that the disk (ssd) works on windows, I can read and write
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• 1247[15:45:41] <msl09> it's a disk separate from the windows installation so I can just let debian use the guided paritioning
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• 1249[15:46:07] <msl09> but even if I do a manual partitioning I get the same error when I try to apply any changes to the disk
• 1250[15:47:23] <nulleip> ratrace: will change size of /run/lock in fstab, but I would prefer changing a value directly in some .conf
• 1251[15:47:41] <msl09> do any of you have any suggestions?
• 1252[15:48:02] <cluonbeam> msl09: Have you tried switching to another tty to see if there's a more descriptive error available?
• 1253[15:48:03] <ratrace> msl09: I think tty4 is showing error messages, can you change to that tty and see if there's more info? alt+f4
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• 1255[15:49:45] <msl09> > file /dev/dev/sdb1 does not exist and no size was specified
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• 1257[15:50:15] <ratrace> msl09: /dev/dev/sdb1 ? twice /dev ?
• 1258[15:50:20] <msl09> oops
• 1259[15:50:32] <msl09> /dev/sdb1
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• 1261[15:50:41] <ratrace> is three anything before that? the reason why sdb1 is not created?
• 1262[15:51:19] <msl09> nah
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• 1264[15:51:34] <msl09> before that it shows the mke2fs version
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• 1266[15:51:44] <msl09> 1.44.5
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• 1268[15:52:47] <ratrace> nulleip: I wonder what's going on there if you need a bigger /run/lock
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• 1270[15:52:57] <msl09> is there a way to get a more verbose log?
• 1271[15:53:39] <ratrace> msl09: I think you can get to the shell with another tty and then you could try running `dmesg`
• 1272[15:53:50] <msl09> ok
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• 1274[15:56:35] <Regor> what packages do i need to install for configuring bluetooth devices? i installed minimum xfce base so i dont fine any application related with bluetooth
• 1275[15:56:59] <msl09> hmm nah
• 1276[15:57:08] <msl09> it doesn't look to print anything to it
• 1277[15:57:27] <msl09> I tried running dmesg -c and then retrying partitioning but nothing shows in dmesg
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• 1280[16:00:04] <ratrace> msl09: is there /dev/sdb ?
• 1281[16:00:22] <ratrace> I mean now, at this stage, you can look it up from another tty, eg. ls -l /dev/sdb
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• 1286[16:04:45] <ratrace> msl09: tried to reboot and repeat the procedure?
• 1287[16:05:11] <msl09> mke2fs -t ext4 /dev/sdb works fine
• 1288[16:05:11] <ratrace> I was wondering if for some reason sdb disappeared (eg faulty firmware, bad sata cable, ...) during partitioning
• 1289[16:05:27] <msl09> ratrace yeah this is not my first try
• 1290[16:05:45] <ratrace> msl09: and that's debian buster ISO installer? which iso?
• 1291[16:06:04] <msl09> shit
• 1292[16:06:13] <msl09> is there a file in the iso that identifies it?
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• 1294[16:06:52] <ratrace> wouldn't know.
• 1295[16:06:53] <msl09> buster
• 1296[16:06:58] <msl09> release 4
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• 1298[16:07:48] <msl09> there is a default-release file in /etc
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• 1303[16:14:23] <msl09> hmm same result using the graphical install
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• 1306[16:17:06] <nulleip> ratrace: I need bigger lock space because of samba needs for my network...
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• 1308[16:18:12] <ratrace> nulleip: so just create a fstab entry for it, with as large size as you want
• 1309[16:18:32] <msl09> for some reason partman calls mke2fs on a partition that hadn't been created yet
• 1310[16:18:36] <nulleip> ratrace: yes, I did it
• 1311[16:18:38] <nulleip> ratrace: can I safely remount /run/lock in production server?
• 1312[16:19:00] <nulleip> ratrace: never did it before...
• 1313[16:19:04] <ratrace> nulleip: with -o remount, it should be safe
• 1314[16:19:38] <nulleip> ratrace: should.. kk better wait afterhours..
• 1315[16:20:01] <ratrace> nah, just do it. if it goes under, blame cloudflare.
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• 1318[16:21:18] <msl09> hmm wonderful the cd install doesn't ship with fdisk
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• 1513[18:57:55] <bfx> Hi, I'm trying to get deb10 to input pinyin characters for a chinese class. How can I do this in IBus?
• 1514[18:58:09] <bfx> I have the option for a multitude of languages in IBus besides pinyin
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• 1533[19:12:00] <premoboss> hi. i have embedded system, running off line. I want make it boot fastar and faster. i think to eliminate ligin proces: how do do and make it give alwais access as root without asking password?
• 1534[19:13:04] <sney> for an embedded device you shouldn't need to log in at all, just run your services
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• 1537[19:13:54] <sney> if you run systemd-analyze blame you can find out what's actually taking time in your boot. replaced-url
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• 1541[19:15:05] <premoboss> sney, i did it already
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• 1543[19:15:50] <premoboss> but i think that everithing i eliminate, the better.
• 1544[19:16:16] <somiaj> how long is it taking this system to boot?
• 1545[19:16:51] <somiaj> (also how much of this time is spent in the firmware initializing everything before grub passes things off to the kernel?)
• 1546[19:16:58] <sney> unix/linux systems are not intended to login automatically, so doing this usually *adds* complexity
• 1547[19:17:01] <premoboss> Startup finished in 5.852s (kernel) + 7.968s (userspace) = 13.821s
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• 1549[19:17:12] <premoboss> i still not recompiled the kernel.
• 1550[19:17:27] <cluonbeam> premoboss: You are doing Very Bad Things, here.
• 1551[19:17:40] <sney> targeted initrd might slim things down
• 1552[19:17:43] <premoboss> cluonbeam, tell me better what you mean
• 1553[19:17:59] <n4dir> sounds like what you want is autologin, and a quick web-search will sure give results
• 1554[19:18:26] <n4dir> though i too don't see a point in it
• 1555[19:18:28] <cluonbeam> premoboss: Allowing root login without any credentials at all is extremely unsafe. Do not do this. An embedded system theoretically runs constantly, so why is boot time such a concern?
• 1556[19:18:32] <premoboss> n4dir, no, i want to "squueze" the boot time, reducin it to the minimmum possible.
• 1557[19:18:50] <cluonbeam> I think you're expending far too much effort on doing things that lie somewhere between "meaningless" and "dangerous."
• 1558[19:19:14] <premoboss> cluonbeam, because my system is not intended to run 24H. mu goal, for this particulart system, is to boot faster as it can.
• 1559[19:19:23] <n4dir> well, you said: eliminate login and give it always root access. To me that sounds like autologin
• 1560[19:19:30] <cluonbeam> premoboss: Why? 14 seconds is hardly consequential.
• 1561[19:19:46] <cluonbeam> premoboss: Again, you're expending far too much effort on things that don't matter or are actively harmful.
• 1562[19:20:07] <premoboss> n4dir, please beg my pardon. i redo te sentence: i wist to reduce boot time, i think that eliminate login proces can help to speed up.
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• 1565[19:20:22] <cluonbeam> It won't.
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• 1568[19:21:01] <premoboss> cluonbeam, if it will not, ok, i will not try to eliminate the login process.
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• 1570[19:21:51] <premoboss> cluonbeam, the goal is to boot the sistem in 5 sec or less, 14 sec is far from my goal.
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• 1572[19:22:28] <cluonbeam> That's a silly goal. Redesign what you're doing and how.
• 1573[19:22:49] <cluonbeam> If rapid availability is such a requirement, then you should be designing this with 24/7 operation in mind.
• 1574[19:23:26] <premoboss> i tried buildroot, but i was stick in the try.. so now i try to squeese a normal distro.
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• 1577[19:24:21] <premoboss> cluonbeam, it is a portable stuff, no battery. i connect to a power source (ie: usg supplier) the gal is to have it started up asap.
• 1578[19:24:31] <premoboss> the goal*
• 1579[19:24:38] <sney> a targeted initrd is a good idea for an embedded system regardless
• 1580[19:24:40] <sney> !targeted
• 1581[19:24:40] <dpkg> The targeted/generic modules choice made during Debian installation in expert mode (5.0 "Lenny" and later releases) can be changed post-install by modifying the MODULES variable in /etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d/driver-policy: MODULES=most (aka "generic", the default), MODULES=dep (aka "targeted"). See also initramfs.conf(5), update-initramfs(8), <initramfs>, <initrd>.
• 1582[19:25:10] <greycat> premoboss: what does your "embedded system" *do*?
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• 1585[19:25:48] <greycat> getting a login shell running as root is usually not part of the system's goals
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• 1587[19:26:05] <sney> we already got them to give up the autologin idea, it's ok
• 1588[19:26:53] <premoboss> greycat, i bust collect data from digital input. store in ram. later, transmit via wireless web server (hostaped). no matter if webserver start 10 sec or 100 sec later, the goal is to start to collect input asap.
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• 1591[19:29:01] <premoboss> figure this: i have amatrix keyboard (4x4), the relater robram is alreadi done, not a matter. the system start, i type on 4x4 matrix. the typed data is store in ram. thisis, in short way, the task. so itis important to me thath time that i must wait bedor i can type the matrix, must be shorter than possible
• 1592[19:29:15] <greycat> OK, then what matters is the time to get the collection process going. You can optimize it for that.
• 1593[19:29:41] <premoboss> greycat, i hear you, go on.
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• 1595[19:30:35] <premoboss> i am removing all service, like ssh, and so on to accellerate boot. (i start my program from /etc/rc.local).
• 1596[19:30:48] <greycat> Not much more to say. When you write the systemd unit to start up your service, you put in the absolutely minimal set of dependencies. You also remove any services you don't actually need, as those will take up resources.
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• 1598[19:31:06] <greycat> Don't use rc.local.
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• 1600[19:31:53] <premoboss> greycat, i didnt know i can run my program using systemd, so i go with rc.local. please perll me how i can go with systemd.
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• 1602[19:33:03] <premoboss> so i gone*
• 1603[19:33:15] <greycat> replaced-url
• 1604[19:35:02] <premoboss> greycat, thanks.
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• 1630[19:59:33] <premoboss> i fount that if i format with ext4 -b 2048, it tool less time to read filesystem comapred to -b 4096 (default)
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• 1644[20:10:55] <wuyx> clear
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• 1679[20:32:55] <freeone3000> Hi, I'm trying to install cuda drivers in a docker image, but keyboard-configuration is giving me a prompt. I don't care what the answer is - the correct answer is 31, but this is a headless virtualized install so it doesn't actually matter. How can I install keyboard-configuration in a non-interactive manner?
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• 1690[20:44:14] <ws2k3> i would like to use time to get the execution time of Multiple command(not paralel) how would i be able to do that?
• 1691[20:45:42] <mutante> ws2k3: use &&? for example: time date && uptime
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• 1693[20:45:56] <mutante> ws2k3: the second command will only be executed if the first one is succesful
• 1694[20:46:05] <mutante> if you don't want that, you can use ;
• 1695[20:46:06] <ws2k3> mutante: but i need to run like 20 command putting everything on one line gets a bit messy
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• 1697[20:46:44] <mutante> ws2k3: you can put the 20 commands in a text file and run it as a single script
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• 1792[22:13:35] <jelly> ws2k3, time (sleep 1; sleep 1)
• 1793[22:13:53] <jelly> a subshell is enough for casual interactive use
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• 1798[22:20:50] <n4dir> rsync -auv /home/user/.[!.]* /media/disk/home/user/
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• 1800[22:21:06] <n4dir> is that correct to copy all config/hidden files?
• 1801[22:21:31] <greycat> The correct way is to back up your entire /home because you value and treasure every file in it.
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• 1804[22:21:50] <n4dir> the non-hidden files are already in place. At least the valuable ones
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• 1807[22:21:59] <ws2k3> it realy sucks that systemd Reguarly is unable to provide any usefull error about Why a service is not starting. replaced-url
• 1808[22:22:03] <greycat> Then rsync won't re-copy those.
• 1809[22:22:13] <n4dir> greycat: ah, duh. Good point
• 1810[22:22:49] <n4dir> still won't hurt to know if .[!.]* will match anything hidden
• 1811[22:23:21] * jelly mkdirs ..foo
• 1812[22:24:17] <n4dir> as no one yells i will hit enter.
• 1813[22:24:23] <jelly> and surely no decent shell matches . and .. with .* by default?
• 1814[22:24:32] <greycat> you need like three separate globs to match all files, or something, it's stupid and ridiculous, and you don't worry about it because you just rsync the entire directory, rather than trying to enumerate every file in it
• 1815[22:24:45] <jelly> (zsh doesn't)
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• 1817[22:24:59] <n4dir> jelly: i assume that is the point of !.
• 1818[22:25:12] <GNU\colossus> ws2k3, chances are the reason was recorded in the journal, but can't be associated with the unit due to an unavoidable race condition
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• 1820[22:25:18] <greycat> and jelly already demonstrated the case that makes your single glob fail
• 1821[22:25:23] <greycat> you can't do it with one glob
• 1822[22:25:25] <GNU\colossus> have you checked `journalctl` from around the first failure?
• 1823[22:25:43] <n4dir> so what would be the way to copy only hidden files?
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• 1825[22:25:51] <greycat> *sigh*
• 1826[22:26:07] <greycat> I am not going to waste my time trying to dig up the three magical globs. They exist. I do not care about them.
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• 1829[22:26:26] <n4dir> is it that unusual someone backs up his config files?
• 1830[22:26:59] <nkuttler> i just back up /home ..
• 1831[22:27:26] <n4dir> good. that is done already. On like 6 or 7 places. You don't always want that
• 1832[22:27:32] <somiaj> if you backup the directory /home/username, vs /home/username/* it gets all the files in the directory.
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• 1834[22:28:09] <n4dir> no shitting? I though it would arbitrarily leave out something. Just for the lulz
• 1835[22:28:12] <jelly> somiaj, or backup /home/username/ without the damn *
• 1836[22:28:32] <somiaj> jelly: isn't that what I just said?
• 1837[22:28:33] <jelly> (and by "backup" I mean "use as rsync source")
• 1838[22:28:37] <jelly> no, no it's not
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• 1840[22:29:02] <n4dir> the difference between / and no / at the end is the reason i asked to be sure.
• 1841[22:29:48] <jelly> /home/username/ as a rsync source will consider the contents without the dir itself
• 1842[22:30:10] <n4dir> anyway, worked well, thanks for the hearty help
• 1843[22:30:58] <jelly> somiaj, that /foo/* construst is WAY too prone to errors, avoid like hell
• 1844[22:31:37] <jelly> especially if the part before /* comes form a variable. ${foo}/* or similar
• 1845[22:31:44] <jelly> just don't do it
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• 1910[23:24:30] <patanga> replaced-url
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• 1914[23:28:24] <jelly> patanga, presumably there's a package that does one thing, and there's also a tool (in that same or other package) with the same name, documented in the man page, that does a different thing
• 1915[23:29:36] <mutante> patanga: the other packages it installs are listed as "recommended" not "depends". so it depends. if you use --no-install-recommends it would not install them
• 1916[23:29:48] <mutante> patanga: apt-cache show med-imaging | grep Recommends
• 1917[23:30:02] <genr8_> its a meta-package.
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• 1919[23:30:43] <genr8_> apt-cache show med-imaging
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• 1924[23:32:52] <patanga> mutante: ok, it only recommends the packages for which it is a metapackage. but why then does it say that "it installs packages"? and firing up "med-imaging" brings up the same text as "apt-cache show med-imaging". so it does really nothing. or have i missed something?
• 1925[23:33:18] <genr8_> it does nothing.
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• 1927[23:34:22] <mutante> patanga: because recommended packages get installed by default unless you add the extra option .. i guess
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• 1929[23:34:57] <mutante> it's like a shortcut to install all the recommended packages without having to type them out
• 1930[23:35:03] <mutante> that's all though
• 1931[23:35:23] <genr8_> its a bundle of packages that are related to med-imaging.
• 1932[23:35:25] <patanga> mutante: oh, i see your point now. i have not used this option, but maybe it is implicitly in the distribution i use
• 1933[23:35:39] <genr8_> it is. thats how it works.
• 1934[23:35:51] <mutante> patanga: well, this caused an "this is not about Debian" alert
• 1935[23:37:01] <genr8_> Theres also: med-tasks - Debian Med tasks for tasksel and med-all - Default selection of tasks for Debian Med
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• 1937[23:37:39] <patanga> mutante: why not about Debian? these are debian packages and a debian distribution. i still doubt that the distribution has this option "--no-install-recommends" enabled by default. in what configuration file would i find it or could i turn it off?
• 1938[23:37:48] <cluonbeam> patanga: Are you running Debian?
• 1939[23:37:52] <cluonbeam> patanga: Or a derivative?
• 1940[23:37:55] <genr8_> /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/99synaptic
• 1941[23:38:06] <patanga> genr8_: will look into it right ow
• 1942[23:38:13] <patanga> *now*
• 1943[23:38:29] <genr8_> if its not that file, it was turned on somehow in that dir.
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• 1945[23:39:45] <genr8_> you can also do "apt-config dump | grep APT::Install-Recommends" , but it doesnt exactly say what file it came from
• 1946[23:39:52] <mutante> patanga: yes, if --no-install-recommends is NOT a default it means all the packags WILL be installed and it says what it does. note the double-negative. "not installing is not default"
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• 1949[23:40:47] <patanga> genr8_: thanks for the solution! i found it in /etc/apt/apt.conf where "Recommends are as of now still abused in many packages" and therefore put to "0"
• 1950[23:41:00] <patanga> genr8_: thanks!
• 1951[23:41:26] <jelly> also, that would mean you're not running Debian
• 1952[23:41:31] <genr8_> I agree with that statement. on real debian, I have recommends disabled for myself in that 99synaptic file.
• 1953[23:41:42] <mutante> "abused"? what? meta-packages are useful
• 1954[23:41:59] <genr8_> well yes, that concept seems to break meta-packages
• 1955[23:42:12] <jelly> mutante, it's an opinion of someone managing some other distro. It might be true for THEIR use case.
• 1956[23:42:14] <genr8_> but normal non-meta-packages are being treated like they need all the recommends when they DONT
• 1957[23:42:42] <mutante> jelly: yep, ok. i am tuning out now because it's another (still unknown) distro.
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• 1959[23:43:03] <jelly> people wouldn't make derivative distros if Debian had everything just the way they needed/liked it
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• 1964[23:45:28] <genr8_> The meta-packages breaking without default install-recommends is probably an edge case the other distros dev hadnt considered
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• 1969[23:47:43] <patanga> mutante: jelly: i did not assume that you were so strict about the difference between "real" debian and derivatives.
• 1970[23:48:11] <cluonbeam> patanga: Every Linux distro's channel makes that distinction.
• 1971[23:48:34] <cluonbeam> !based on
• 1972[23:48:35] <dpkg> Your distribution may be based on and have software in common with Debian, but it is not Debian. We don't and cannot know what changes were made by your distribution (compare replaced-url
• 1973[23:48:36] <mutante> yep, that would be common if a relatively small group of people are trying to re-engineer a very complex system that has grown over a long time
• 1974[23:48:40] <genr8_> well .conf files changing defaults would be relevant to know...
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• 1977[23:51:42] <heretogo> I'm very stuck on an issue with my sound after upgrading to buster. I've found many similar reported and have search alsa, pulse, debian and dell forums. Basic suggestion is to modify the modprobe.d but it doesn't work.
• 1978[23:51:44] <genr8_> I'd rather stick to original debian and make my own list of defaults to change, that I then understand the scope of.
• 1979[23:51:54] <heretogo> So I'm asking here.
• 1980[23:52:01] <heretogo> Detailed debugging info in paste: replaced-url
• 1981[23:52:07] <genr8_> > Dell. laptop ? what model ?
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• 1983[23:52:23] <heretogo> Basic problem is that pulse shows a dummy output instead of the device
• 1984[23:52:32] <heretogo> It's a Dell T1500 (desktop)
• 1985[23:52:38] <patanga> genr8_: does original debian support to be run out of RAM? boot option toram?
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• 1987[23:53:23] <genr8_> im not aware. its definitely possible if some other guy did it.
• 1988[23:53:47] <genr8_> id rather learn how myself than risk everything else he messed with
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• 1990[23:54:31] <patanga> genr8_: yes, that makes sense. in any case i want to fiddle with the original debian. sometimes it is just convenient to see and use what modifications somebody has come up already
• 1991[23:54:38] <patanga> thank you guys.
• 1992[23:54:45] <patanga> genr8_: thank!
• 1993[23:55:01] <genr8_> yeah you can use both to learn
• 1994[23:55:03] <genr8_> gl
• 1995[23:55:18] <patanga> same to you
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• 1997[23:57:48] <jelly> debian live supports toram IIRC
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