119[01:58:59] <awal1> any better way to launch a few programs a
few MINUTES after X is reached? (openbox) I already use
"sleep" command but I thought that there is maybe
something "better"?
153[03:16:37] <sney> awal1: I don't know if openbox has a
builtin for this, but you could use a 'while' loop to
delay starting your program until something else is detected, like
'pidof' output or so.
replaced-url
154[03:17:10] <sney> usually when people ask for a way to delay
something for x time, what they really want is to avoid a race
condition. you can eliminate it altogether by actually checking for
the condition you need.
169[03:31:02] <slowly_stuck> I created a network namespace and
used a veth pair and a bridge to allow it to communicate with the
local network. It starts out not working, but later functions
properly. Should I not give the same IP to both veth endpoints?
diagram:
replaced-url
172[03:34:18] <sney> please use cidr notation in your network
diagrams. and no, when you have a tiny segment with 2 endpoints,
they should have separate addresses. if you don't want to waste
address space you can use a /30 or a /31 even
173[03:35:05] *** Quits: catman370 (~catman@replaced-ip) (Quit: See you later..)
177[03:38:33] <slowly_stuck> thanks sney, I'll cidr in the
future. if I give a different IP to one side of the veth, will
traffic be able to route back to it? Or is there some kind of
automatic NAT rewrite?
182[03:44:04] <sney> but if you set up your routes correctly
then traffic will be able to route between your network segments,
yes. this is pretty basic networking stuff, virtualized. if you have
any networking experience it may help to visualize them as
physically separate racks and switches.
183[03:44:34] <sney> if you *don't* have much networking
experience and are just trying to hack through it as a linux user,
stop, and go watch some video tutorials about networking
185[03:45:47] <slowly_stuck> sney: I understand a bridge
(switch), I just don't get what concept to map a veth pair
onto. If I ping gateway from net2 namespace, it's coming from
.12. Does veth pair also act like a switch? (updated diagram:
replaced-url
186[03:46:31] <slowly_stuck> Fundementally, if something on main
network ARPs for 10.0.0.12, can the net2 veth respond?
187[03:47:43] <sney> a veth pair is a point to point link. the
closest modern analogy is a vpn connection, or the connection
between your home router and the ISP.
188[03:48:43] <sney> if your whole network, including both
namespaces and this ptp link, are all in the same /24, then
you've completely missed the point of having spearate segments
189[03:50:04] <cws> How is a ptp link in a /24?
190[03:50:27] *** Quits: hobbanero (~hobbanero@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
195[03:52:12] * sney is pretty sure "stop, and go watch some
video tutorials about networking" is the correct next step
196[03:54:26] *** Quits: Haudegen (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Quit: Bin weg.)
197[03:55:25] <empty_string> slowly_stuck: think of the veth
pairs as two interfaces connected by a regular ethernet cable. any
ethernet frames that go on one end will come out the other. from
that perspective, bridging v0-main to br0 is like plugging in one
end of a cable into a switch. it doesn't really make sense to
assign an IP address to that side
198[03:56:13] <empty_string> veth does operate at layer 2, so
that's all you need to get ethernet frames into your net2
namespace. when you assign an IP address on v0-net2, then it'll
start answering for ARP requests on that address, yes
199[03:57:03] <slowly_stuck> empty_string: yes, that's my
goal. So there's no point in assigning an IP to v0-main, I just
need to bring up the interface?
200[03:57:19] <empty_string> right, just bring up the interface
and attach it to the bridge
202[03:59:02] <slowly_stuck> perfect, thanks empty_string! sney,
I'm also trying to self-educate about PTP links, but not
finding good documentation (mostly, pages talking about T1s). Do you
have a recommended place for me to RTFM?
209[04:02:02] <sney> slowly_stuck: ppp might give you better
search results. but honestly, I've been a linux nerd since I
was a teenager, and I needed to take some classes years later to
really wrap my head around networking stuff. it seems like it should
be easy to jump from one to the other but it isn't.
210[04:03:27] <sney> the _concept_ is that it's just 2 ip
endpoints in a tube that only talk to each other, and they're
172.16.84.1/31 and 172.16.84.2/31 or whatever, and each endpoint is
a router that also has routes for any other directly connected
network segments
211[04:03:49] <sney> but if you grind through a ccna course on
youtube you'll understand all of this and more
218[04:08:27] <sney> PPP was the dialup protocol. some dsl
providers still use it, but be prepared for old articles. the
principle still applies though, and tcp/ip hasn't changed in
decades
388[08:16:41] *** Quits: riff-IRC (~riff2@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
389[08:17:41] <Romko> Ok, while it does mention that it runs
great on it, I went to the ports section and it says discontinued
and trying to find the installer to download.
466[10:11:01] <f0r3ign3r> Hi there, I'm trying to connect a
displayport monitor into the system but it's not being detected
by the OS.
467[10:11:02] <f0r3ign3r> I've tried to set dpms off with
xset, and tried to run xrandr --auto but no luck.
468[10:11:02] <f0r3ign3r> Secure boot on BIOS is desabled (I
read somewhere that it may cause problems), the GPU is an AMD 5700xt
with latest available mesa driver. The displayport screen works
under windows, but not in Debian (x11). Is there a way to force a
hardware rescan to detect the display port monitor? I cannot set an
X11 monitor rule since I cannot reach an ID for
493[10:54:50] <ratrace> f0r3ign3r: is that radeon Navi?
494[10:56:53] <klys> so I have here a gateway m275, pentium-mmx
laptop. I booted it from a jessie-live cd. watched youtube for a
while with firefox. I have a shell open via telnet from another
machine, which doesn't want to return my prompt. it's been
accessing the cd for a while in repetitive patterns. bit over half
an hour.
497[10:57:46] <unborn> hi guys is it safe to delete directory
/etc/resolvconf as apt is complaining that folder is not empty?
498[10:58:17] <sigint> f0r3ign3r, FYI I gave up trying to get my
5700xt to work correctly with debian buster. I'm now running
testing and everything works well as far as I can tell, although
I'm using HDMI so not sure about displayport.
499[10:58:25] <ratrace> unborn: only if "resolvconf"
package is not installed and in use
500[10:58:33] <klys> unborn, probably. /etc/resolv.conf however
contains a list of dns name servers for internet access.
501[10:58:57] <ratrace> sigint: f0r3ign3r: if that's Navi,
I was gonna recommend upgrading the kernel to backports beause 4.19
won't have support for it, it came with 5.x, forgot the x
502[10:59:14] <ratrace> klys: resolv.conf file != resolvconf dir
505[11:00:11] *** Quits: tejr (~tejr@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
506[11:00:23] <unborn> ratrace: well last night I've
installed debian 10 over debian 9 from live dvdbut not home...apt is
complaining when I try to update && upgrade. I think it
could be due to old packages perhaps?
508[11:00:40] <sigint> The problem with using the backports
kernel is that it doesn't play nice with other parts of the
display stack. I haven't figured out exactly what but it seems
like different software from different eras don't use the same
APIs or something like that.
512[11:01:24] <ratrace> unborn: possible, resolvconf is maybe no
longer needed, and I think it's deprecated in 10
513[11:01:32] <f0r3ign3r> sigint I'm on Debian testing now.
The spare HDMI monitor is working, but the DisplayPort appears as
disconnected everytime, no matter which DP I connect the cable in
514[11:01:39] <f0r3ign3r> clear
515[11:01:40] <unborn> ratrace: here is paste from update
replaced-url
516[11:01:49] <klys> unborn, it is. if resolvconf is installed,
it'll show up in $ dpkg -l resolvconf
517[11:02:51] <ratrace> unborn: you can't nuke your system
if you remove it. worst case, you'll have to manually add a
resolver to /etc/resolv.conf to install it back. resolvconf is a
piece of software that coalesces resolv.conf from multiple sources.
with systemd, that is not longer needed. NM doesn't need it.
static resolv.conf doesn't need it.
518[11:03:51] <ratrace> f0r3ign3r: do you have
firmware-amd-graphics installed?
550[11:27:50] <ratrace> /sbin/init: symbolic link to
/lib/systemd/systemd anyway, so....
551[11:28:18] <unborn> ratrace: I know, perhaps Im old school ;)
also I found system go much faster down, it should be safe to use it
those days anyway
552[11:30:48] <ratrace> I think that "faster" is just
placebo. systemd does the same shutdown.target (or whatsitsname)
dance
726[15:44:28] <busternube> is Linux able to provide GAMES
solutiotn for these non display GPU card miniing cards etc. can
video be re-routed thru screen feature displayed thru another
card/port?
727[15:44:50] <busternube> they dont have monitor connectors
728[15:45:56] <busternube> the second card just needs to pass
the video doesnt need to calculate the 3d etc no?
729[15:46:10] <shtrb> busternube, pc or laptop ?
730[15:46:30] <busternube> the firmware does not produce video
languge
731[15:46:33] <busternube> pv
732[15:46:36] <busternube> pc
733[15:46:38] <busternube> lol
734[15:46:57] <busternube> the mmining card does not speak video
736[15:48:34] <busternube> someone will invent a
"wrapper" or something that taps those processors
737[15:49:46] <shtrb> You already can use them to render data,
your problem is to take the rendred images and display them fast
enough with your onboard card
738[15:50:29] <busternube> divide the labor job the second with
the non math parts create a virtual game card with a miner and a
second graphic card
740[15:52:17] * EmleyMoor would still like to find computers where
*everything* active is on a card - but they're probably next to
impossible these days
741[15:53:04] <busternube> im pisssed the bitminers stole my fun
775[16:29:20] <shtrb> [using X] Any suggestion how to debug
xclip not putting data into DE's clipboard ? "upitme |
xclip " and then xclip -o in the same window works but doing
ctrl+V in a different windows does not paste it but
ctrl+shift+insert does
834[17:32:48] <mentor> busternube: It's fairly common for
laptops to have a discrete GPU that isn't connected to any
display output ports, so support for rendering on one GPU and
outputting on another is standard.
835[17:33:54] <busternube> so people are already gaming with the
miner cards then?
836[17:34:38] <busternube> the only instance i know were hackers
that returned them to original by reprograming the firmware
860[17:50:23] <mentor> shtrb: Not to mention tedious to have to
maintain software for.
861[17:50:40] <shtrb> At least with Nvidia descrete card
there's a physical connection internally, that why you can use
your descrete card to play games on the laptop screen
862[17:50:43] <mentor> shtrb: In any case, you can look this up
in the XRANDR connection
879[17:58:06] <ChrisH> A while ago I found a SW/extension to do
a overlay mount on a mounted filesystem to provide the files
encrypted. I want to do a rsync of the encrypted version into a
backup cloud. I'm no longer finding it.... Any hints on what I
need to search for?
880[18:00:35] *** Quits: Ericounet (~Eric@replaced-ip) (Quit: Je m'en vais ...)
881[18:00:46] <shtrb> reread what I wrote, and what you had
said, you are arguing against the what I had said "that
discrete cards in laptops are physically connected to the the screen
internally"
884[18:02:33] <mentor> shtrb: Yes, I am saying that discrete
cards in laptops do not always have a display output to the
internal, and indeed, any external screens.
892[18:07:26] <shtrb> mentor, yes, technically there could be a
laptop with a discrete card which is not wired to the internal
screen (eDP/LVFD etc) , I had NEVER seen such a case, but it is
possible.
893[18:07:40] <mentor> shtrb: I am using one now
894[18:07:54] <oxek> ChrisH: gocrypt?
895[18:08:27] <shtrb> mentor, Could you share the model and
information on such case ? and do you really mean you have no way to
represent the infromation your card on your internal screen ?
896[18:08:51] <ChrisH> mentor: the overlay mount extension. I
currently backup using amanda onto a LUKS disk and duplicity does
not fit my needs as I need to do full backups to be able to cleanup.
A full backup takes about 24h upload :( rsync the delta will be much
faster.
910[18:13:19] <mentor> shtrb: It does not export any display
hardware to X
911[18:13:36] <shtrb> it's a different thing
912[18:13:55] <mentor> shtrb: No it isn't.
913[18:14:25] <shtrb> A physical lane does not mean there would
be a linux driver for it , we do not see what happen LVDS (for old
laptops) at all in X level
943[18:24:48] <shtrb> mentor, I had worked with many laptops in
my life , I didn't find your laptops schematics yet, and I had
NEVER seen a case where the GPU would not be linked to the internal
screen over one of the internal lanes, I also doubt your AMD GPU is
wired via the intel card and not directly via LVDS/eDP and similar
things to your internal screen
945[18:26:04] <Dude-Meister> Hi. I'm running (principally)
Debian 10.8.0, but would also appriciate being able to use
suggestions in CentOS7 as well. My question is, do I have different
options for running a virtual machine (or 3) in Debian as a student
of this particular flavor of "Zen and the Art of Linux (Home
(PC) Maintenance?"
971[18:30:33] <towo`> aind especialy for optimus, where in 99%
the nvidia card is not wired to any display
972[18:31:05] <towo`> shtrb, it was abaout your "I had
worked with many laptops in my life , I didn't find your
laptops schematics yet, and I had NEVER seen a case where the GPU
would not be linked to the internal screen"
974[18:31:33] <Dude-Meister> oxek, of coprse, only for one that
is willing to take the time and go through slowly. It'sd very
much a rapid-fire presentation.
984[18:39:32] <oxek> imo, the easiest way to get into
virtualization is to install the package named qemu-system-x86
985[18:40:20] <oxek> and then start some virtual machine, with
some .iso file, using a command like `qemu-system-x86_64 -enable-kvm
-cdrom /path/to/the/iso/file -m 1024`
986[18:40:33] <Dude-Meister> Even while running a 64 bit
machine?
987[18:40:58] <oxek> what would make you think that would be a
problem?
988[18:41:26] <Dude-Meister> My profound lack of knowledge, most
likely. :)
989[18:42:08] <oxek> there are some resources on the debian wiki
995[18:42:56] <dpkg> The Debian wiki (replaced-url
996[18:43:15] <Dude-Meister> I have some "Lessons"
lined up, I just wanted to as a "Pre-Sales" question about
a package that has no proice tag before I rioll up my sleeves and
start learning about running VMs.
997[18:43:41] <Dude-Meister> wanted to *ask*
998[18:43:54] <oxek> VMs are really simple from a user
perspective
999[18:44:33] <oxek> you might also look into containerization
technologies (LXC, docker, LXD, ...) since they solve a similar
need, while often requiring less resources
1000[18:44:49] <oxek> and once again, all of it is supported on
debian
1001[18:46:00] <Dude-Meister> Wow wow wow. All very helpful
library references, and I really appreciate your help!
1030[19:17:26] <Caesar_NayKid> Im building a new PC. It is based
on an intel i5 Rocket Lake CPU that comes out 3/30 and a Gigabyte
motherboard that has z590 chipset with PCI-E 4.0 and a Samsung pro
ssd.. im new to Linux and have only tried Ubuntu but want to try
Debian now.. however, i read that Debian might not support the
newest hardware sometimes.. i was hoping to run into
1031[19:17:26] <Caesar_NayKid> some experienced Debian users who
might be able to tell me if they expect I'll have problems
1038[19:21:25] <abrotman> I don't think they have a built PC
yet
1039[19:21:27] <Caesar_NayKid> I have not tried Ubuntu on this
system.. i have ordered the parts but they don't arrive until
next week
1040[19:21:33] <sney> oh, right.
1041[19:21:51] <Caesar_NayKid> So the kernel is a general linux
kernel?
1042[19:22:06] <Caesar_NayKid> I should research that first
before choosing a distribution?
1043[19:22:20] <Caesar_NayKid> I am super n00b level but trying
to learn on the weekends
1044[19:22:28] <sney> hardware support is determined by the
kernel, that's where the drivers are.
1045[19:23:06] <sney> intel is a major contributor to the linux
kernel, so any intel components will probably work out of the box,
with bullseye if not also with buster
1049[19:23:48] <sney> (bullseye is the current testing branch.
it'll be released as debian 11 sometime later this year.)
1050[19:24:02] <Caesar_NayKid> I just saw some news about a
Debian 11 freeze but im guessing I'd be using Buster?
1051[19:24:44] <sney> that would be up to you. buster is the
version you would download from the debian.org main page, though.
1052[19:25:59] <CyberManifest> sney are the net installs
selective or are they version oriented ?
1053[19:26:43] <sney> the standard netinstall is
version-specific.
1054[19:27:49] <Caesar_NayKid> I mean, i would like to use
Bullseye if it's ready to go, but im trying to determine
what's the minimum version my hardware will support
1055[19:27:50] <CyberManifest> wouldn't it be more practical
to maintain only one net install with selective versioning ?
1059[19:28:37] <CyberManifest> Caesar_NayKid my guess is
you'll be fine
1060[19:28:42] <Caesar_NayKid> If this is the wrong place to ask
newb questions let me know and I'll gladly redirect to the
kiddie pool
1061[19:28:44] <sney> the netinst image also contains a base
system, so making it support multiple debian versions would make the
iso unreasonably large for a "network" installer
1062[19:28:48] <CyberManifest> Caesar_NayKid and if not right
away eventually
1063[19:29:16] <CyberManifest> sney that's fair
1064[19:29:16] <Mister00X> Caesar_NayKid: you could try with
different live images of different distros what works.... also there
is
replaced-url
1065[19:29:23] <sney> there is a mini.iso that *doesn't*
have a base system and can be used to install any debian version.
it's usually only used for edge cases though.
1066[19:29:33] <Caesar_NayKid> Im looking for a now solution.
1067[19:29:47] <Caesar_NayKid> Not to my questions but to the
system
1068[19:30:01] <Caesar_NayKid> Yes i plan to test a few
1069[19:30:06] <sney> Caesar_NayKid: my guess is that bullseye
will support your new system with no hassle. buster may be difficult
to get going, but should still be possible, as long as you have a
second computer to shuffle some packages on to usb drives
1076[19:31:20] <CyberManifest> Caesar_NayKid I'm betting
you'll have better results with bullseye
1077[19:31:41] <sney> what typically happens is that the stock
buster kernel is too old to support some integrated network and/or
video devices, so you install the OS, then manually install the
updated kernel from buster-backports. +/- firmware packages if wifi
is involved.
1078[19:33:23] <CyberManifest> and all else fails you maintain
your own kernel
1079[19:33:36] *** Quits: Zone77xx (Zone77xx@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1080[19:34:13] <sney> it is exceedingly rare in 2021 to _need_ to
build a custom kernel.
1095[19:39:49] <Caesar_NayKid> I won't be running WiFi if
that helps
1096[19:40:49] <sney> it'll make the install slightly
smoother, most likely.
1097[19:41:22] <sney> anyway, we can only guess at support until
you actually get the system. but I think it'll probably be
fine. if you get stuck you can ask here.
1098[19:41:36] <Caesar_NayKid> No special video card just Intel
graphics or onboard video
1099[19:41:40] <Caesar_NayKid> Gotcha
1100[19:41:59] <TaZeR> what are general relations like between
the debian and mx linux communities? is there a hatred such as the
one between archlinux and manjaro, or is it different?
1101[19:42:07] <Caesar_NayKid> I think the main question is the
nvme m.2 pci express 4.0
1102[19:42:32] <sney> TaZeR: debian is mostly indifferent to
mxlinux, except that mx doesn't have a support channel so their
users tend to end up here
1103[19:43:20] <Caesar_NayKid> Apparently AMD has been using pcie
4.0 nvme for a while but i got the impression that was new for Intel
motherboards
1104[19:43:46] <TaZeR> interesting, they should start a community
support channel atleast
1105[19:43:58] <Caesar_NayKid> I wasn't sure if something
that is coming out this week would be in Bullseye
1106[19:44:14] <TaZeR> well i guess thats what they all are, or
the devs themselves oversee this channel?
1107[19:44:29] <sney> yeah, I've seen some nvme hardware not
get recognized by the buster installer. not sure what makes the
difference. but if that's the case, then just install bullseye.
1108[19:44:43] <TaZeR> i imagine the devs might be more upset at
how well distros like ubuntu and then mx linux did for themselves
based off debians code
1112[19:45:13] <sney> Caesar_NayKid: it's a new chip, but
not a new series, right? still a 10th generation cpu? intel will
have committed all of the code needed to support those at once
1113[19:45:24] <TaZeR> ive just been testing mx's images for
a few days to see what all the hype is about
1114[19:45:37] <Caesar_NayKid> The i3 is 10th gen, i went for the
i5 which is 11th gen
1115[19:46:11] <Caesar_NayKid> I was considering ClearOS since
it's Intel stuff
1116[19:46:22] <Caesar_NayKid> But idk, i want it to be Debian
for some reason
1117[19:46:36] <TaZeR> running side by side in VMs with some of
debians latest images
1118[19:47:10] <sney> TaZeR: this is free software, having
derivatives is not considered bad, it's just part of the
ecosystem. and the more people are working on debian-based stuff,
the more fixes and improvements eventually make their way back to
debian.
1119[19:48:03] <Caesar_NayKid> What would y'all recommend to
run Win10 in a VM on Debian?
1120[19:48:23] <sney> Caesar_NayKid: ok still, haven't 11th
gen chips been available for quite a while? there shouldn't be
any software changes needed for the new model of an existing chip
family.
1121[19:48:25] <Caesar_NayKid> VirtualBox ok?
1122[19:48:27] <TaZeR> thats what ive been trying to assess, if
mx linux has actaully done anything special to really improve things
besides offering customizations of things already available in
debian and some extra applications, but i cant really find anything
better
1125[19:49:11] <dpkg> Oracle VM VirtualBox is
<virtualization> software. Not in buster and unlikely to be in
any future debian stable releases due to #794466. Unofficial
backports are available as well as 3rd party packages from Oracle,
see
replaced-url
1126[19:49:14] <TaZeR> a simple UI upgrade pack could be released
and installed on a debian system making it effectively the same, an
option for more casual users perhaps, but i know the debian devs
arnt interested in that sorta thing
1141[19:52:20] <jmcnaught> TaZeR: one difference I would wonder
about is how well MX keeps up with security updates, and do they
make that information publicly available? Anyways, derivatives are
off-topic in #debian, maybe you want to discuss them in
#debian-offtopic.
1142[19:53:16] <TaZeR> yes good idea i will research that area as
well
1143[19:53:42] <Caesar_NayKid> When Bullseye moves to stable can
i just like apt-update everything at the console or will i have to
reinstall somehow
1144[19:53:44] <NetTerminalGene> guys, i got libwebkigtk and 4 of
them or something as far as i remember two days ago but it is still
not on
replaced-url
1156[19:55:38] <aminvakil> right now buster is stable
1157[19:55:39] <jhutchins> aminvakil: That's actually not
quite true, you want to read the release notes and any errata, and
do the uprade manually so that you can catch any glitches.
1158[19:56:13] <aminvakil> jhutchins: Caesar_NayKid was asking if
they are going to install bullseye, when bullseye became stable, are
they need to do anything or not
1159[19:56:20] <aminvakil> not upgrading from buster to bullseye
1160[19:56:24] <ratrace> NetTerminalGene: and this:
replaced-url
1164[19:56:59] <Caesar_NayKid> I mean, if i can get Buster
working the way i want i may never update
1165[19:57:01] <sney> Caesar_NayKid: debian doesn't
distribute anything that is not considered stable. but I'd say
gnome3, kde plasma, and xfce4 have the most complete desktop
experience without having to do a lot of setup and tinkering, if
that's what you mean.
1166[19:57:04] <Caesar_NayKid> For this build
1167[19:57:09] <jhutchins> Caesar_NayKid: We don't see many
stability problems with DEs these days.
1168[19:57:36] <NetTerminalGene> Caesar_NayKid: gnome is pretty
stable
1178[19:59:52] <Caesar_NayKid> Gotta walk my dog. Might be back
in 30 or so.. if you all aren't around thanks for answering so
many questions. This has been a great irc chat so far
1179[20:00:00] <ratrace> still waiting for definition of
"most stable"
1181[20:00:31] *** Quits: Caesar_NayKid (~igloo@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1182[20:00:45] <NetTerminalGene> ratrace: we understood what it
is but we won't tell you
1183[20:00:48] <ratrace> and by some definitions, gnome is leas
stable with every release removing chunks of functionality,
extensions breaking or not working properly, etc...
1184[20:00:50] <aminvakil> i would define stable as not changing,
not the one that does not break
1185[20:01:04] <aminvakil> ratrace: exactly!
1186[20:01:44] <ratrace> but for the lifetime of a release in
debian, it doesn't change. the extensions might be entirely
different story.
1203[20:07:45] <jelly> and sometimes an extension is never
updated for current gnome. I've switched at least two
2D-grid-workspaces extensions for Gnome (not on Debian tho)
1222[20:21:26] *** Quits: Christian75 (~Christian@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1223[20:21:37] <hiya> Debian Testing is officially supported
here?
1224[20:21:59] <SponiX> hiya: not according to the /topic
1225[20:22:12] <ratrace> !debian-next
1226[20:22:12] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for
testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not*
on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is
invite only)." it means you did not read it's on
irc.oftc.net. See also
replaced-url
1242[20:30:12] <Caesar_NayKid> Is everyone here running Bullseye?
1243[20:30:26] <dvs> !debian-next
1244[20:30:26] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for
testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not*
on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is
invite only)." it means you did not read it's on
irc.oftc.net. See also
replaced-url
1245[20:31:06] <Caesar_NayKid> Gotcha so this one is all about
stable
1246[20:31:46] <Caesar_NayKid> So Buster can have problems with
nvme drives?
1247[20:32:17] <Caesar_NayKid> Is there somewhere that has a
giant list of hardware known to work on different versions of
Debian?
1248[20:32:46] <ratrace> Caesar_NayKid: not that I know of. the
linux source code keeps track of .... badly behaving SSDs tho, in
the commends. lemme find that for you
1274[20:38:46] <oxek> usually you first need to install the other
desktop before uninstalling the first one
1275[20:39:01] <Caesar_NayKid> Can it cause stability problems to
have a bunch of desktops?
1276[20:39:49] <Caesar_NayKid> Probably anything could cause an
instability so dumb question i guess
1277[20:40:04] <aminvakil> as i've said i switched from
gnome to kde, and i did see some problems which wasn't there
when i reinstalled the operating system for another reason
1278[20:40:15] <aminvakil> (i'm using another os though)
1279[20:40:39] <Caesar_NayKid> What's the community
preferred way to remote access your Debian install
1280[20:40:54] <aminvakil> ssh ?
1281[20:41:13] <aminvakil> your graphic environment you mean? vnc
then
1282[20:41:18] <Caesar_NayKid> I figured that might be it.
1283[20:41:44] *** Quits: akp55 (~akp55@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1284[20:42:25] <Caesar_NayKid> Ok thanks. I'll probably be
back when i get to installing
1285[20:43:32] <Caesar_NayKid> Anyone have a setup guide that you
like to recommend?
1294[20:46:32] <TheSilentLink> Hi I have 3 systems all with
unattended-upgrades installed. Seems to be a default package. 1 of
them updated and 2 of them didn't anyone know why?
1299[20:48:50] <Caesar_NayKid> I was going to install a separate
physical hard drive for my vm.. is there anything special i need to
do in Debian before going into virt manager and stuff?
1313[21:06:51] <filePeter> Hi, is there a (gtk-)tool that I can
call, that shows me a file picker UI with thumbnails, that returns
the selected filenames to the commandline?
1344[21:22:54] <SponiX> Caesar_NayKid: ask it and see
1345[21:22:57] <sney> Caesar_NayKid: there's #kvm, for the
technology that virt-manager (among others) uses. but for your
question, there is nothing special you should need to do in order to
use a separate disk for a vm guest
1346[21:24:23] <oxek> Caesar_NayKid: if it's on linux, then
##linux
1347[21:24:36] <Caesar_NayKid> Well this question is about ip
addresses i guess, if my Debian install grabs an IP in the nic with
that mac address then i set up a Win10 VM in virt manager how do i
avoid a router trying to hand out the same ip address to that PC
1349[21:24:56] <Caesar_NayKid> Or even if i manually configure
the ips
1350[21:25:11] <sney> the vm guest will have its own virtual mac
address
1351[21:25:19] *** Quits: hispeed (~hispeed@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1352[21:25:20] <Caesar_NayKid> Really
1353[21:25:22] <oxek> yes
1354[21:25:29] <Caesar_NayKid> Interesting
1355[21:25:39] <Caesar_NayKid> That's helpful then
1356[21:27:58] <Caesar_NayKid> i tried to setup Hyper-V on my
Win10 Pro laptop so i could try and install debian on a VM the other
day but when i shared the network card to the VM it disconnected my
laptop from the network. Is that easier to set up for virt manager
in Debian?
1357[21:28:35] <Caesar_NayKid> If I can't get the VM to work
then this machine will just be a dedicated Debian server
1360[21:29:13] <sney> yes, virtual machine networking is pretty
straightforward with virt-manager. it supports a few different
options, and should never disconnect the adapter that you're
trying to share with the guests.
1361[21:29:37] <sney> again, it will be much more clear once you
actually have the computer and can try stuff.
1362[21:29:38] <Caesar_NayKid> cool.
1363[21:29:58] <Caesar_NayKid> Yeah i know.. im just pumped up to
try something new
1364[21:30:18] <Caesar_NayKid> Trying to get ahead a little as
much as possible
1365[21:30:43] <sney> !handbook
1366[21:30:43] <dpkg> The Debian Administrator's Handbook is
at
replaced-url
1369[21:30:57] <Caesar_NayKid> So should I install Debian to my
primary drive and not even install the alt drive during the install?
1370[21:31:27] <sney> the debian installer is not like windows,
it will ignore any connected disks that you don't tell it to
use.
1371[21:31:34] <dvs> Caesar_NayKid: it's much easier to
install Debian to its own drive
1372[21:32:22] <oxek> on home machines, I always leave just one
drive connected during installation, so that I am absolutely certain
that I can't overwrite something I don't want to
1373[21:32:22] <Caesar_NayKid> Should i just install everything
on one drive including the /home and all that stuff for ease?
1374[21:33:05] <dvs> Caesar_NayKid: it's easier to install
everyting onto one DRIVE, how many partitions is another matter.
1375[21:33:23] <Caesar_NayKid> Oh right I'm following you
there
1376[21:33:39] <Caesar_NayKid> Partitions is probably a
preference yeah
1377[21:33:43] <SponiX> Caesar_NayKid: telling the installer to
use the "whole drive" ( making sure to point to the
correct one ) and letting it take care of the rest -- is the
"easiest" method IMHO
1378[21:34:11] <dvs> oh but the installer uses lvm , doesn't
it?
1379[21:34:21] <Caesar_NayKid> Yeah that pointing to the right
one i was thinking to leave the second drive out for now
1380[21:34:23] <SponiX> dvs: not unless you tell it to
1381[21:34:40] <Caesar_NayKid> What's lvm
1382[21:34:51] *** Quits: CyberManifest (~CyberMani@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
1383[21:34:54] <dvs> !lvm
1384[21:34:54] <dpkg> [lvm] the Linux Logical Volume Manager (replaced-url
1385[21:34:59] <Caesar_NayKid> Gotcha
1386[21:35:36] *** Quits: Grldfrdom (uid391113@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
1387[21:35:39] <Caesar_NayKid> This system will primarily host a
shared folder for about 6 PCs to access
1397[21:40:03] <Caesar_NayKid> I think Linux users want to see
Linux become more popular and I would guess Debian users would like
to see Debian continue to grow in popularity also
1398[21:40:46] <dvs> Meh
1399[21:40:47] <Caesar_NayKid> It all a big new world to me and
tons of distros recommended
1400[21:41:11] <dvs> I think it's more important to have
Debian working well than to have it be popular.
1401[21:41:17] <Caesar_NayKid> Like Freenas and CentOS seem like
popular recommendations for what im doing
1422[21:50:42] <Caesar_NayKid> I will actually likely run that
freefilesync on the Win10 VM with task scheduler every night to
backup this Debian shared folder to a Onedrive folder on an external
drive
1425[21:51:28] <Caesar_NayKid> Mainly because that's how i
do it now but i was interested to see what native backup tools
Debian offers that might be superior to all that
1436[21:55:01] <Mister00X> dd also called the Disk Destroyer
1437[21:55:25] *** Quits: xet7 (~xet7@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1438[21:55:31] *** Quits: Vizva (~Vizva@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1439[21:56:34] <Caesar_NayKid> So: currently im thinking: install
debian Bullseye on my Samsung Pro nvme. After it's running
I'll power down install my second SSD. Install virt manager.
Install win10 on the vm
1477[22:05:40] <rudi_s> Ah, yeah, and integrity. That's one
thing that annoys me a little. But for long term storage I just use
sha512sum and redundant backups and most of my short-term storage is
git or git-annex anyway.
1478[22:05:41] <ratrace> the biggest disadvantage, that was
mentioned, is don't run it 100% full.
1479[22:05:45] <Caesar_NayKid> Anyone got a good link on btrfs
and avoiding "issues"?
1480[22:05:59] <ratrace> Caesar_NayKid: folks in #btrfs will have
those
1481[22:06:05] <Caesar_NayKid> Thanks
1482[22:06:11] <rudi_s> Don't use raid
1483[22:06:14] <rudi_s> *btrfs raid
1484[22:06:15] <Caesar_NayKid> I joined
1485[22:06:19] <ratrace> I got this bookmark'd
replaced-url
1486[22:06:25] <Caesar_NayKid> No plans to use raidghost
1487[22:06:28] <Caesar_NayKid> Ugh
1488[22:06:32] <ratrace> RAID1 in btrfs is just fine
1489[22:06:38] <rudi_s> Lol
1490[22:06:40] <Caesar_NayKid> Sorry this app wants to tag
people.
1491[22:07:00] <rudi_s> The first line "Here are some
guidelines for users running btrfs raid5 arrays to survive
single-disk failures without losing all the data."
1492[22:07:22] <ratrace> yes, raid5/6 is still a sore spot for
btrfs
1493[22:07:33] *** Quits: short-bike (~short-bik@replaced-ip) (Quit: and on that note...)
1494[22:07:34] <rudi_s> How can anybody take a file system
seriously after reading that ...
1496[22:07:48] <Caesar_NayKid> No plans for raid on this system
1497[22:08:15] <aminvakil> Caesar_NayKid: use ext4 which is
default, you won't see any issue.
1498[22:08:31] <rudi_s> Anyway, mabye I'm biased. I was
using btrfs once (for the snapshots) and it took a few days and it
froze my system and I had to reboot. Lost a few snasphots, nothing
major, but that was it for me. That was maybe 2 years ago.
1499[22:08:36] <ratrace> yes, you won't see any issue. ext4
is oblivious to data corruption.
1500[22:09:12] <rudi_s> At least the disk is losing the data and
not the file system ;-)
1520[22:13:31] <Caesar_NayKid> Oh hmm.. now i got more reading to
do. I thought KVM was a desktop gui haha
1521[22:13:50] <Caesar_NayKid> #n00bAlert
1522[22:14:13] <Caesar_NayKid> Oops i guess that's an irc
chat name with hashtags
1523[22:14:27] <Caesar_NayKid> I haven't used irc since like
1991
1524[22:16:34] <aminvakil> nkuttler: could you please take a look
at this link?
replaced-url
1525[22:17:08] <MrPickles> help: i have separate partition for
/home /var /tmp /boot ... now i am installing actually reinstalling
debian form linux mint which partition should i format
1526[22:17:09] <rudi_s> Caesar_NayKid: virt-manager is the client
GUI
1528[22:17:27] <ratrace> aminvakil: yes, if metadata blocks get
full, the fs goes belly up
1529[22:17:49] <nkuttler> last time i had this happen i decided
to reinstall after an hour or so..
1530[22:17:51] <rudi_s> And it has no (hard) dependency on
libvirt, only a recommends.
1531[22:18:14] <jhutchins> MrPickles: mint != debian
1532[22:19:31] <MrPickles> jhutchins: i am reintalling debian
there was some prob in mint dbus break
1533[22:19:57] <aminvakil> nkuttler: i won't blame the
filesystem if the user does not remove its snapshots...
1534[22:19:59] <MrPickles> jhutchins: while autoremove
1535[22:20:16] <aminvakil> but i wouldn't use it if i
don't want it to have less headache
1536[22:20:51] <aminvakil> MrPickles: format your /var and /boot
and /tmp, you can use your /home from mint to debian, others should
be removed prior to new installation
1537[22:21:00] *** Quits: Caesar_NayKid (~igloo@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1544[22:24:56] <ratrace> line17: you can use the faster method
1545[22:24:58] <rudi_s> line17: What partitions are you currently
using? The regular /dev/sda1 -> /boot, /dev/sda2 -> luks
(maybe with /boot/EFI) as well?
1549[22:26:13] <rudi_s> Why should you recreate the luks
partition? Just cat/dd everything on the new SSD, increase the LUKS
partition size (delete and create with larger size, make sure it has
the same start sectors!) and then you're done.
1550[22:26:45] <rudi_s> LUKS automatically adapts its size. You
can even do this on a running system (if you have RAID for example
and swap the disks with larger ones).
1559[22:30:45] <rudi_s> line17: Yeah. Just cat/dd everything to
the new disk, then resize partition sda5 (e.g. with fdisk) by
deleting it and recreating it in the same place but with a larger
size (make sure the starting sectors match!). Then resize the PV
with pvresize and you should be done.
1560[22:31:50] *** Quits: Vizva (~Vizva@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1562[22:32:56] <rudi_s> You can also do everything after the
cat/dd in the new running system if you like.
1563[22:33:02] <line17> rudi_s, to be honest i can't do
resize partitions job. and other stuff like deleting, recreating
with larger size and make sure the starting sectors, and resize the
PV...
1564[22:33:16] <rudi_s> (You might have to force the kernel to
reload the partition table though.)
1565[22:33:50] <rudi_s> Why not? It's quite easy and you
have a backup (the old ssd) so you cannot screw up too much. To be
really safe remove the old disk from your computer so you cannot
touch it accidentally.
1566[22:34:21] <aminvakil> line17: why don't you create a
new luks partition, create partitions on top of it, make filesystem
on it and copy data from your old disk to new one as ratrace
suggested?
1567[22:34:33] <rudi_s> It's basically just fdisk /dev/sda
then p to print the partitions then d to delete the last one, then c
to create it again, then look at the old values to give the proper
start sector and then p again to verify everything matches, then w.
1568[22:35:01] <rudi_s> aminvakil: Why should you? It's more
work and less to learn ;-)
1569[22:35:41] <aminvakil> rudi_s: it's safer :)
1570[22:36:14] <rudi_s> aminvakil: Well, if you have the old disk
...
1583[22:38:16] <rudi_s> You are only changing the partition table
which basically contains pointers into the real disk. When you
recreate the partition the pointer must point to the same place
because you didn't move your data. You just told the partition
that it's now larger.
1584[22:38:18] <line17> rudi_s, when i will use starting sector?
i mean in which part
1586[22:39:48] <line17> rudi_s, can you make a paste file for me
and other newbies?
1587[22:39:51] <rudi_s> man pvresize, it resizes physical
volumes. In your case sda5_crypt is a physical volume used by LVM.
LVM is another kind of partition table (among other things).
"root" and "swap" (two LV or logical volumes)
are partitions in your "debian" VG (or volume group) which
uses the sda5_crypt as physical volume.
1588[22:39:54] <line17> i really confused :D
1589[22:39:59] <rudi_s> line17: When you use fdisk.
1591[22:40:46] <line17> this job is going to a more complex for
me xD
1592[22:41:08] <rudi_s> Well, I told you the commands above. In
theory I could provide the exact commands but that's dangerous
because any mistake or misunderstanding of your setup could break
it. So I can help with the setup but you'll have to figure the
commands.
1593[22:41:39] <rudi_s> You can always just partition the new
disk and start from scratch. But that's not really easier
because you'll have to setup LUKS, PVs, VGs and LVs anyway.
1594[22:42:06] <rudi_s> I would consider it a chance to learn how
LUKS and LVM really works on your system. You're already using
them anway.
1595[22:42:14] <MrPickles> it may help
replaced-url
1616[23:01:11] <rudi_s> Why would use squashfs for that?
1617[23:01:28] <ratrace> dob1: nothing particularly bad about it
1618[23:02:17] <dob1> ratrace, my concern is about the
alternatives, a 7z/xz archive are better?
1619[23:02:35] <ratrace> dob1: better for what purpose precisely?
1620[23:03:01] <dob1> ratrace, I want to archive some data, to
save space, I will not modify it in the future
1621[23:03:03] <ratrace> squashfs is interesting if oyu want a
mountable, browsable, compessed filesystem. a 7z/xz archive is just
a file, you can't mount it as a fs
1622[23:03:08] <ratrace> the use cases are different
1623[23:03:34] <ratrace> dob1: I'd tarball it then.
1624[23:04:23] <dob1> ratrace, but as you said the squashfs
permit to mount it and access the data (readonly but that's ok)
1625[23:04:32] <rudi_s> There's always FUSE
1626[23:05:05] <dob1> a tar.xz is better as compression than
squashfs ?
1630[23:06:55] <ratrace> dob1: it depends on what kind of data it
is and what kind of access you want. if you want compressed
mountable _filesystem_ you can carry around in a file, then squashfs
is suitable. if you just want to package up a bunch of files, you
can tarball them. you can still extract individual files from a
tarball.
1631[23:07:38] <ratrace> dob1: a .tar can be compressed with any
algo. xz, gzip, zstd, ... I don't know what squashfs uses
1644[23:15:55] <ratrace> tga: I don't iphone. but I'd
look into using jmtpfs for MTP access, like I do for android. if I
used a desktop like gnome, I'd check if gvfs can mount it
JustLikeThat(tm)
1645[23:16:28] *** Quits: Tom01 (~tom@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1646[23:17:19] <tga> ratrace: it's more complicated than
that, at least on kde it doesn't Just Work, I managed to
connect to it with ifuse but not seeing all the files
1664[23:42:22] <aivkiv> Hello, I've just tried network
installer for 10.9 ant I've found weird change. After
locale change I am limited to that locales timezones. Before I was
able to get US as locale and get my local time, now I only see US
timezone options. Suggestion is to go back ant pick another locale,
but then installers language changes as well. it's ARM64 is it
the same in AMD64?
1670[23:48:18] <jhutchins> aivkiv: Linking it is probably simpler
than having separate setting tables for each one, and the installer
has to make some compromises.
1672[23:50:45] *** Quits: Streusel (~Anonymous@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1673[23:53:14] <maxf> Hi. On my debian server, I just did
'apt update && apt upgrade' and libssl1.1 and
openssl got downgraded. Both packages have the version number
'1.1.1d-0+deb10u6' now (according to 'aptitude show
libssl1.1 openssl|grep Version'). Is everything correct ?
1680[23:57:07] <karlpinc> line17: You can do "pvs" and
see how much free space you have in your physical volume, and use
that to extend your logical volumes.