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25 [00:09:46] <galex-713> I’d like to apply an ffmpeg
filter to my whole screen, can xorg do that?
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27 [00:10:59] <galex-713> like, I have a passive 3D screen,
where one row on two is polarized differently (that’s called
“row interlaced” in ffmpeg), and most applications and
videos use the side-by-side format, where a version for the left eye
is at the left of the video and another version of the same image
for the right eye is at the right of the video
28 [00:11:15] <galex-713> there’s an ffmpeg/mpv filter
that can do that, can I apply it to the whole screen?
29 [00:11:22] <galex-713> nobody is answering on #xorg
30 [00:11:32] <somiaj> I doubt you can
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32 [00:11:39] <galex-713> oh :(
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34 [00:11:43] <somiaj> maybe (and this is highly unlikely) a
composition could do that
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37 [00:11:50] <somiaj> composittor
38 [00:11:54] <galex-713> *compositor
39 [00:12:18] <galex-713> because my monitor can do the
conversion sbs->ir, but it does it only with hdmi, not vga
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41 [00:12:24] <somiaj> maybe not highly unlikely, but if
anything that is where to look, as at some leve shadows and
transparency are just a filter
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43 [00:12:53] <somiaj> is your graphics card so old it
doesn't have dvi or hdmi output?
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45 [00:13:31] <galex-713> I have a passive vga->hdmi
converter, but it does work, so I guess yes
46 [00:13:38] <galex-713> I use the thinkpad X220
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48 [00:13:48] <galex-713> yet it’s too recent to get
libreboot support :/
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50 [00:14:29] <somiaj> ahh a laptop, yea those were a bit slow
to replace their external monintor with hdmi
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52 [00:15:12] <galex-713> who still use workstations?
53 [00:15:14] <galex-713> *uses
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60 [00:18:29] <crash_> i'm on a laptop only
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66 [00:22:34] <somiaj> galex-713: I prefer them, both my main
home machine and work machine is a workstation. I only have a laptop
that I use rarely.
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70 [00:23:16] <galex-713> somiaj: yeah but then how do you do
when you’re outside of your home? or if you want to move
place? also that eats a lot of electricity
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72 [00:25:03] <somiaj> I have a vpn at work and rsync scripts to
keep all my docsments synced on my multiple machines.
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74 [00:25:24] <somiaj> but overall I like real keyboards, full
size screens, and if I'm going to use a full monintor, would
rather have a desktop.
75 [00:26:10] <somiaj> really if I'm going to do work, I
want to be at my desk or office. If I'm going outside, I'm
leaving my computer behind.
76 [00:26:15] <galex-713> somiaj: I understand, but all these
are usable with a laptop… and a desktop is only bigger and
hungrier
77 [00:27:06] <somiaj> I also like to be able to easy replace
parts, and build my own machines
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92 [00:40:04] <michael2> hi all. does anyone know what debians
policy for packages is main is regarding software which would
contain non-free code? e.g. if a large application software like say
firefox was free by most definitions, source available, GPL licence
etc, but that it _contained_ a binary for decoding video or flash
plugin etc, could that exist in main? or does the software have to
be entirely comprised of libre/free
93 [00:40:06] <michael2> software to qualify for main?
94 [00:40:31] <rant> when I enabled multiarch on stretch amd64 I
only got sources for security,updates,backports but my main repos
are still only amd64 according to apt policy
95 [00:40:40] <somiaj> packages which contain non-free code
cannot be in main
96 [00:41:07] <somiaj> michael2: any non-free extensions would
have to live in contrib/non-free depending on what it is
97 [00:41:17] <rant> I was trying to test the playstation 2
emulator since I sold my ps2 and still have games.. but its only in
i386
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99 [00:42:03] <somiaj> michael2: for example virtual box is in
contrib (not main) despite it is 100% free code and binaries.
Problem is to build the free vbox bios you need to use non-free
software, so if you wanted to build every part of vbox includeing
the bios you couldn't with free software.
100 [00:42:22] <somiaj> rant: do you have an [arch=amd64] in your
sources.list by chance?
101 [00:42:30] <rant> no
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103 [00:42:58] <somiaj> rant: care to share your sources.list and
the output of apt policy
104 [00:43:18] <michael2> somiaj: so say if debian provided a
kernel which had proprietary blobs - because that was the only way
to get some hardware to work - that kernel would have to live in
contrib or non-free?
105 [00:43:29] <melissa666> In commands like "ip addr add
169.254.0.1/32 dev wlan0:avahi" is the ':avahi' some
kind of command/option related to wlan0, or is
'wlan0:avahi' just another name for an interface, which
happens to have a colon in it? I can't find any documentation
on this syntax, but I'm seeing it a lot re: avahi
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110 [00:44:46] <rant> somiaj:
replaced-url
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115 [00:47:33] <somiaj> michael2: avahi is some sort of automatic
tool that gives interfaces fall back address and might do more. I
personally don't use it, but it is enabled by default on most
systems.
116 [00:48:00] <somiaj> avahi can also try to discover networking
things.
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118 [00:48:26] <somiaj> melissa666: ^^
119 [00:49:29] <somiaj> michael2: correct, but debian tries
really hard not to support anything that is non-free. Debian is
offically only debian main. STuff debian packages and provides in
contrib and non-free are meant to help users out who need such
software, but it isn't offically part of debian (it just uses
debian's infenstructor to package and distribute to those who
want/need them
120 [00:49:57] <somiaj> melissa666:
replaced-url
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124 [00:50:57] <somiaj> rant: I think it has to do with your
mirrors, if a mirror doesn'thave the arch it won't be
avaiable.
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126 [00:51:03] <somiaj> rant: also don't use ftp.debian.org
127 [00:51:05] <somiaj> !ftp.debian.org
128 [00:51:06] <dpkg> ftp.debian.org is not the principal mirror
for Debian. It is just one mirror that uses bandwidth that was
donated to the Debian project; you are kindly requested not to use
this mirror but to instead use a mirror that is closer to you, ask
me about <mirrors>. See
replaced-url
129 [00:51:31] <somiaj> rant: but it could be that deb.debian.org
is redirecting you toa mirror that only has amd64 packages
130 [00:52:18] <melissa666> somiaj, sorry I wasn't clear.
I'm aware of what avahi is, and what it's for. I'm
trying to set up ad-hoc networking for use with babeld. But I'm
just trying to understand that that command I described is doing. I
want to understand the 'wlan0:avahi' syntax, and what
exactly it's doing, and it's relation to wlan0 ...
131 [00:52:43] <melissa666> what does appending
':avahi' tell the ip command to do, exactly?
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135 [00:53:28] <somiaj> melissa666: looks like it is just
creating a virtual interface from the hits I get in google.
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139 [00:56:55] <somiaj> maybe virtual interface isn't the
correct term, but it is somehow a secondary interface that can be
used to add another ip address to the interface. In this case you
can name them things like wlan0:1 wlan0:2, etc, appears that command
is naming it wlan0:avahi to signify it is a virtual inerface (or
secondary configration of sorts) that is getting its ip from avahi
140 [00:57:14] <somiaj> though I dno't think there is
anything special about the :avahi in the command you listed, except
it is a way to name the interface
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144 [00:58:23] <somiaj> melissa666: not finding any good write up
this, but it appears device alias is a better name than virtual
interface
145 [00:59:21] <rant> somiaj: backports website specifically said
to use that line.. as you can see the rest are deb.debian.org. the
main deb.debian.org is the one not working with i386
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147 [01:00:31] <somiaj> stretch-backports are now part of the
main mirrors so I would just use deb.debian.org, but it appears it
is picking a mirror that only has amd64, maybe try using
ftp.us.debian.org as your mirrors
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149 [01:01:29] <somiaj> melissa666:
replaced-url
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155 [01:06:30] <melissa666> somiaj, thanks - yeah, I was having
trouble finding any real documentation on it either ... mostly just
seeing it in forum posts, tutorials, etc without any explanation of
what it's doing. I'll do some more searches with
"device alias" and see what I can find ...
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157 [01:07:18] <melissa666> ah that's what I was looking for
--> "Relationship with main device
158 [01:07:18] <melissa666> If the base device is shut down the
added aliases will be deleted
159 [01:07:19] <melissa666> too."
160 [01:07:51] <somiaj> melissa666: I think what you are seeing
is not standard. man ip-address and check the label option. I belive
that is what you should be using if you want compadability with the
old alias standard
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162 [01:08:17] <somiaj> but in the ip-address manpage, it is dev
IFNAME, and what is there is just an IFNAME, and maybe IFNAME can be
an alias to be compadable with the depricated ifconfig way of
dealing with this.
163 [01:08:55] <somiaj> i.e. the examples I keep finding are more
on the line of ip addr add <address> dev wlan0 label
wlan0:avahi if you wanted to give that ip address you added a label
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165 [01:09:25] <somiaj> not finding any definitive documentation
of what it does if you use wlan0:avahi as the IFNAME (maybe has some
compadability, but can't find any clear info on this)
166 [01:09:28] <michael2> does anyone know which docs define what
exact rules debian uses for choosing what goes in main, contrib etc?
not so much the idealogical discussion but more the actual technical
and practical rules about how packages are chosen for main etc..
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170 [01:11:06] <melissa666> somiaj, I don't have any
particular reason that I need compatability - I was just following
instructions for babeld setup I've found online, and many of
them included the :avahi alias. Maybe I don't need it at all
now though, if I use 'label' option.
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173 [01:12:30] <somiaj> michael2: it is called the DFSG (Debian
Free Software Guidelines)
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175 [01:13:18] <somiaj> michael2:
replaced-url
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177 [01:13:55] <somiaj> michael2:
replaced-url
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188 [01:18:32] <michael2> somiaj: thanks, Ive seen those links,
they are interesting, but Im interested in a specific aspect of the
packaging policy which Im not sure is covered by those documents
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196 [01:24:56] <somiaj> what do you mean by that. The policy is
the code in the packages must meet the DFSG
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200 [01:25:31] <somiaj>
replaced-url
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243 [01:53:21] <morfeokmg> hello guys, someone has one webpage
with noob documentation to emacs init.el configuration?
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249 [01:55:57] <livedebian> how do i expand the disk size on a
live debian iso_
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265 [02:02:15] <Tech_Guy> sup
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269 [02:04:12] <mnuhmnuh> livedebian: mount free space (usbkey)
on running system (/media)?
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302 [02:24:27] <ryouma> ok, i am told that (basically) this is
the correct sequence to use to create a chroot. is this correct for
debian? just want to confirm. that comment about systemd is
unnerving.
replaced-url
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309 [02:28:33] <michael2> does any one know why the mirror list
below doesn't tell users where the security mirror is?
310 [02:28:37] <michael2>
replaced-url
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314 [02:30:10] <michael2> are we supposed to simply point
/etc/source.list to use the same mirror for debian/security?
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321 [02:33:03] <cpd8> Hi guys, I am trying to install debian 9 on
my x230 laptop but when I select install the screen goes black
except for a small portion at the top with obscured pixels. I have
tried multiple usbs, methods of writing to the usbs and multiple
isos
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323 [02:34:12] <michael2> I mean for the stretch/updates archive
whose canonical url is
replaced-url
324 [02:34:55] <dvs> cpd8, even the firmware iso?
325 [02:35:06] <cpd8> the non-free firmware netinstlal one?
326 [02:35:26] <dvs> yes
327 [02:35:29] <cpd8> yeah same issue
328 [02:35:34] <cpd8> pixelated at the top
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330 [02:36:32] <somiaj> michael2: security mirrors are dealt with
differently and have a single url that redirects to a near by
mirror. So there are not indvidual mirrors to use for security
updates.
331 [02:36:51] <somiaj> cpd8: how did you create the usb stick
you are booting from?
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333 [02:37:48] <cpd8> multiple methods, I tried rufus, etcher,
and the manual method from the release notes on debian.org
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335 [02:37:58] <cpd8> on different OS's
336 [02:38:21] <dvs> manual method?
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338 [02:38:55] <somiaj> what os are you creating the iso from
339 [02:39:03] <somiaj> rufus and etcher can both totally managle
the debian iso images
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341 [02:39:46] <cpd8> I was using solus, but am trying with
windows now to see if I could have any success
342 [02:40:02] <somiaj> I dno't know solous, but on windows
use win32diskimager
343 [02:40:02] <dvs> !win32diskimager
344 [02:40:02] <dpkg> win32diskimager is much more reliable than
<unetbootin> for copying ISO images to USB sticks and you can
download it from
replaced-url
345 [02:40:11] <michael2> somiaj: thats the problem with the
mirror list - the mirrors never publish the URL for their security
mirror. so there is no choice but to use the
replaced-url
346 [02:40:25] <cpd8> somiaj: ok I will try that
347 [02:40:43] <somiaj> michael2: that isn't a problem, that
is by design. Security mirrors are seperate and should only be
access via security.debian.org
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353 [02:41:47] <somiaj> michael2: there are multiple machines
behind security.debian.org, but by design there is a single security
mirror (to avoid some problems that mirrors may have only providing
some arches, or any delay it may take to propagate, the security
mirrors are dealt with seperatlly)
354 [02:41:49] <ryouma> the dpkg instructions in this channel
fail to mention make-rslave. should they?
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356 [02:42:17] <somiaj> i'm unsure on the actual details of
the security mirrors beyond thereis a single url to access them and
they are treated differntaly.
357 [02:42:20] <somiaj> ryouma: makr-rslave?
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360 [02:43:36] <ryouma> somiaj: gentoo (supposedly applicable to
debian) says the following (i will use
replaced-url
361 [02:43:36] <michael2> somiaj: so you are saying we are
supposed to use
replaced-url
362 [02:44:01] <themill> michael2: yes. In fact using
deb.debian.org for both makes sense
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364 [02:44:03] <somiaj> michael2: yes, security mirrors only
contain secruity updates and are seperate from the mian mirrors.
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366 [02:44:15] <cpd8> somiaj: same issue with win32diskimager
367 [02:44:18] <somiaj> oh yea, I forgot deb.debian.org now
reidrects debian/security too
368 [02:44:26] <somiaj> cpd8: you may want to try to disable
modesetting then
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371 [02:44:59] <somiaj> cpd8: try nomodeset i915.modeset=0
nouveau.modeset=0 as your boot paramters, only need to use i915 for
intel and nouveau for nvidia
372 [02:45:13] <themill> yeah, modern apt will use a cdn for
security.d.o
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374 [02:45:51] <themill> (that saves security.d.o being nuked
from orbit every time there's a kernel update)
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376 [02:46:46] <ryouma> 17:44 <themill> michael2: yes. In
fact using deb.debian.org for both makes sense -- i don't
understand this as an answer to michael2's question. he said
security and then you said yes. but then you said deb.
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379 [02:46:50] <somiaj> ryouma: ahh i'm unsure what the
--make-rslave mount option does and why it is used, but dev, proc,
sys and tmp by default rarely have other mounts inside of them, so
the recursive bind most likely isn't needed
380 [02:47:30] <themill> ryouma: security.debian.org and
deb.debian.org are the same thing
381 [02:47:37] <ryouma> somiaj: i found that when creating a
chroot on drives, i can never umount /sys because something mounts
stuff underneath them. fusectl, systemd, whatever.
382 [02:47:42] <ryouma> themill: ok, thanks
383 [02:48:12] <themill> (check the http SRV record)
384 [02:48:23] <ryouma> somiaj: so i think the dpkg factoid might
be very wrong
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386 [02:48:27] <Chipset_Board> hi
387 [02:48:39] <ryouma> i wish debian had something like
arch's chroot script
388 [02:49:06] <cpd8> somiaj: how to set boot parameters?
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390 [02:49:38] <themill> ryouma: if you want tools to manage
chroots there are lots; schroot is commonly used
391 [02:50:38] <ryouma> too fancy for me
392 [02:50:59] <ryouma> i just need to install grub and do
mkinitramfs or something on a drive :)
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396 [02:51:33] <ryouma> it seems pretty screwy that if you follow
dpkg's instructions for chroot, you could end up changing the
host system
397 [02:52:13] <ryouma> i was told that you could merely mount
--bind 3 things from teh host. it seems you have to do a lot more.
398 [02:53:22] <themill> can't say I've ever done more
399 [02:53:22] <cpd8> I found my issue, I was using UEFI only
mode, if I switch to UEFI & BIOS option it works fine....
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408 [02:55:09] <ryouma> themill: here is where a debian page says
youc an screw up your host system. saerch for that option.
replaced-url
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412 [02:55:21] <dvs> cpd8, so you have a BIOS install I guess.
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414 [02:55:59] <dvs> cpd8, Is SecureBoot is turned off too?
415 [02:56:04] <ryouma> themill: so i was told to do basically
replaced-url
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417 [02:56:30] <cpd8> there was no option for uefi or bios dl for
debian
418 [02:56:33] <ryouma> "then /dev will be unmounted in your
base/parent system as well!"
419 [02:57:11] <cpd8> didn't check, should it be off?
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421 [02:57:26] <dvs> cpd8, SecureBoot should be off.
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425 [03:00:31] <slicepaperwords> is there a way to print the file
location that env variables are coming from? been turning the google
crank for awhile no luck
426 [03:01:55] <cpd8> cant find secureboot in my bios
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429 [03:07:10] <themill> ryouma: that's only relevant if
you're bind mounting / into the chroot; you're not are
you?
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438 [03:08:16] <ryouma> no, i rsync root then i chroot to it in
order to do grub
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440 [03:08:25] <ryouma> chroot to the target
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489 [03:33:33] <somiaj> ryouma: the factoid seems fine to me,
those extra options would only matter if people have submounts
inside of /dev, /proc, /sys, which is rare.
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498 [03:38:20] <cpd8> now its failing to fetch updates on a fresh
install but I can access them fine through my browser
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500 [03:38:26] <cpd8> never had so much issues with debian before
501 [03:39:30] <ryouma> somiaj: i found that by doing what chroot
says (except merely doing it as a loop with --bind for all 3), i was
unable to unmount /sys because it was in use
502 [03:39:43] <ryouma> somiaj: i found that by doing what dpkg
chroot says (except merely doing it as a loop with --bind for all
3), i was unable to unmount /sys because it was in use
503 [03:39:59] <somiaj> yea I didn't realzie systemd had
changed things, I rarely need to mount --bind into my chroots, but I
just use them to build stuff
504 [03:40:10] <ryouma> so it is necessary to do --rbind at the
least
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506 [03:40:34] <ryouma> and possible make-rslave in case somebody
tries something funny
507 [03:40:39] <ryouma> (which is possible for a newcomer)
508 [03:40:54] <somiaj> I don't see what --rbind is doing
there, that just means recrusive, and unless you have submounts
inside of sys, won't be doing much
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510 [03:41:43] <ryouma> so my new loop to do a chroot is for dir
in /dev /sys /proc; do mount --rbind --make-rslave target/$dir; done
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515 [03:42:29] <ryouma> somiaj: maybe you're right. the
submounts are probably created for who knows what reason after the
mounting is done. so you need umount --recursive.
516 [03:42:42] <ryouma> which i also intend to do
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518 [03:43:25] <ryouma> i will make a comment in my script that
rbind is probably not nec
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528 [03:46:51] <somiaj> but this appears to be more a case that
many use cases didn't fully notice the change and the old
factoids in dpkg haven't been updated. I also wonder if this
change ever got documented in the release notes like discussed int
he bug report.
529 [03:46:59] <ryouma> is there a difference between doing
"mount -t proc none /target/proc" and doing "mount
--rbind --make-rslave /proc /target/proc" (same question for
sys)?
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532 [03:48:07] <ryouma> somiaj: yes i assume the factoid just
didn't get upgraded. but i think it should be like my loop
above, if i am not wrong. because taht can be remembered by
somebody, while the special cases of proc and sys being different
from dev makes it less so.
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535 [03:48:43] <somiaj> I think the factoid should point at good
document explaining what those options do over just state them.
536 [03:49:04] <ryouma> i.e. i think it should be this loop if i
am not wrong: 18:41 <ryouma> so my new loop to do a chroot is
for dir in /dev /sys /proc; do mount --rbind --make-rslave
target/$dir; done
537 [03:49:15] <ryouma> except for the rbind which should be bind
i suppose
538 [03:49:19] <somiaj> I think assuming you want to use
--make-rslave is poor too, and it cannot be undone. It really
depends on if you want the shared namespace or not.
539 [03:49:41] <somiaj> there are apps in which making it a slave
or prviate could break.
540 [03:49:42] <ryouma> huh, i have no idea. i just want to do a
chroot to install grub.
541 [03:50:03] <somiaj> From live system?
542 [03:50:22] <ryouma> yeah, i am creating a bootable copy of my
live system
543 [03:50:31] <ryouma> rsync, then fix stuff, then chroot and
install grub. sort of.
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546 [03:50:49] <Chipset_IRQ> hi
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548 [03:51:37] <somiaj> anyways might want to read up on what the
--make-rslave and --make-rprivate actually do. I think the reason
this isn't well known, despite it hsa been the default since
jessie, is it only affects certain use cases.
549 [03:52:29] <ryouma> that's above my ability to do atm
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551 [03:52:41] <somiaj> but seems man mount_namespaces, and the
main things i / is now MS_SHARED by default which was a change in
jessie
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553 [03:53:22] <somiaj> so if one just quickly mounts --binds,
installs grub, then reboots, the MS_SHARED may not even be noticed.
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559 [03:54:14] <ryouma> perhaps. i just got a stern warning that
if you don't do the make rslave thing you could screw stuff up
560 [03:54:21] <ryouma> is all
561 [03:54:23] <somiaj> but for the most part, seems what
--make-rslave is doing is setting MS_SLAVE to make ti so if the
parent is unmounted then the slave is. In the past it was MS_PRIVATE
by default, so this behvaior is actually better.
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563 [03:55:19] <timeless> is there a replacement for
replaced-url
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565 [03:55:29] <somiaj> so yea, without it if you are on a
running system that you want to unmount the bind mount, there will
be a difference, but many use cases won't need this
566 [03:56:18] <ryouma> i unmount after the chroot is exited, and
apparently it is not a risk if you do that, but i could imagine a
newcomer mistakenly unmounting while the chroot is active
567 [03:56:37] <timeless> that page /seems/ to suggest that i
could use `dpkg-buildpackage --target-arch i686 ...` (it lists armel
as an example), but that doesn't work
568 [03:58:02] <ryouma> somiaj: when you say live system i
assumed you mean "a live, running system". i just realized
you might have meant "a live cd".
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570 [03:58:17] <ryouma> i am not using a live cd. i am using my
running system
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572 [03:59:04] <somiaj> ryouma: yea, I mean ta live cd, and yes
since you will want to unmount this you should use --make-rslave
573 [03:59:13] <somiaj> which factoid were you saying you got
this info from?
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576 [03:59:38] <ryouma> ok, so sounds like i want --make-rslave.
dpkg chroot.
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578 [04:00:18] <Chipset_IRQ> chroot > changes to user root.
right?
579 [04:00:45] <somiaj> !chroot
580 [04:00:45] <dpkg> To chroot into your Debian system boot to
your Debian install disk/live CD, switch to the other console
(Alt-F2). Mount your root filesystem with "mount -t ext2
/dev/whatever /target" and make /dev, /proc and /sys usable
with "mount --rbind --make-rslave /dev /target/dev ; mount -t
proc none /target/proc ; mount -t sysfs none /target/sys". You
can then chroot into the system with "chroot /target".
581 [04:01:13] <themill> timeless: i686 is not a debian arch;
cross-building isn't necessarily going to work anyway. What are
you trying to build and on what arch?
582 [04:01:17] <somiaj> Chipset_IRQ: no, chroot makes a /target
dir the new / file system, so you are running softawre from inside a
subset of your file system.
583 [04:01:45] <somiaj> ryouma: though it didn't have much
space, I would rather explain what that --make-rslave is doing, it
does seem like a reasonable default.
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585 [04:02:43] <ryouma> somiaj: iiuc sounds like my loop is ok
"for dir in /dev /sys /proc; do mount --rbind --make-rslave
target/$dir; done" (rbind is like bind if no submounts,
apparently)
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587 [04:03:37] <ryouma> also, presumably from a live cd
unmounting is irrelevant?
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596 [04:06:22] <timeless> themill: sshguard for i686 from amd64
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601 [04:08:38] <somiaj> timeless: to build for 32bit on amd64, I
would just create a 32bit chroot and build there.
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603 [04:08:59] <somiaj> ryouma: correct, as mentioned, this
change in jessie only affects certain use cases, and it sounds like
yours is one.
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608 [04:12:01] <ryouma> thank you for confirming. i wasn't
sure about the systemd thing. i also wasn't sure about whether
it was ok to use --rbind instead of -t proc and -t sys.
609 [04:12:27] <somiaj> well proc is okay if it got unmounted, so
test it, you can lways reboot
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612 [04:12:52] <somiaj> but my guess is when using -t proc and -t
sys is making a new mount (not a shared mounted, which you then turn
into a slave mount with --make-rslave)
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614 [04:12:58] <ryouma> i don't mean with erspect to the
systemd thing. i just mean could dpkg suggest --bind for sys and
proc instead.
615 [04:13:05] <somiaj> and in this case, --make-slave is
probabaly sufficent, recursive mountes most likely aren't
needed
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619 [04:13:52] <somiaj> yea, and it really isn't a systemd
thing directly, it is jsut sytemd changed / from being MS_PRIVATE to
being MS_SHARED which has its advntanges, the problem is changes
take a while to ripple though the os world
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624 [04:15:26] <rfleming> Hi! Question. What happened to
network-manager-openconnect-gnome in testing? It's in every
other repo but buster/testing
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628 [04:16:09] <somiaj> rfleming: probably broken, I'm going
to find the actual bug
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630 [04:16:39] <somiaj> rfleming:
replaced-url
631 [04:16:40] <judd> Bug
replaced-url
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633 [04:17:06] <somiaj> rfleming: a libary change, when the old
libary got removed from testing, anything that dependend on it did
too. might have to wait for the new libary and the new package to
propagate
634 [04:17:51] <rfleming> which is (looks at bug) libmn-glib?
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637 [04:18:26] <rfleming> somiaj: this bug it seems
replaced-url
638 [04:18:28] <judd> Bug
replaced-url
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640 [04:19:04] <somiaj> rfleming: for the time you can install
the packages you need from sid until the new ones are available
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644 [04:20:02] <rfleming> somiaj: OK. Refresher, add the sid repo
then pin it so low nothing will come from it?
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646 [04:20:38] <timeless> somiaj: ok... since none of these
systems are native, i ended up just being lazy and installing
debian-i686 in another vm
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648 [04:21:00] <somiaj> rfleming: yea, and in the future you
should bring debian testing questions in #debian-next on
irc.oftc.net
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650 [04:21:10] <somiaj> timeless: a chroot would have been just
fine, no need for a full vm to build something in
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652 [04:21:17] <somiaj> timeless: debootstrap would have been
quick
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654 [04:21:46] * timeless nods
655 [04:21:47] <rfleming> ahh, I tried #debian-testing and got
booted 'cus I needed an invite
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657 [04:22:52] <timeless> i probably could have one set of
chroots for each of {debian,ubuntu,centos}-{i686,amd64}, but, i
don't really have the energy to play w/ that... I have in the
past used debootstrap (quite a bit in fact)...
658 [04:23:10] <timeless> (i could probably also just use lxc for
this)
659 [04:23:12] <somiaj> rfleming: it is on a different network
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662 [04:25:11] <timeless> anyway, thanks
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667 [04:28:36] <oops> #quit
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699 [04:46:23] <rfleming> somiaj: OFC?
700 [04:46:38] *** Quits: greegel (2f48c0fa@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
701 [04:46:38] <rfleming> OFTC
702 [04:46:41] * rfleming sighs
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704 [04:47:59] <annadane> yes, #debian-next on irc.oftc.net
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862 [06:10:56] <maxcell_> Hi, i managed to install Debian but i
got no sound
863 [06:11:12] <maxcell_> I'm on Xfce
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868 [06:15:05] <maxcell_> Hi, there is no volume icon in my Xfce
and the sound aren't working
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875 [06:18:51] <maxcell_> all i needed was to add the pulseaudio
volume on the panel and it worked, bye
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905 [06:34:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1560
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927 [06:45:55] <annadane> sorry for dumb question but how do you
actually see closed bugs on bugs.debian.org
928 [06:45:58] <annadane> for a specific package
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930 [06:46:01] <annadane> emacs, in this case
931 [06:46:19] <annadane> nvm think i found it
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969 [07:11:10] <jitaram> Hellow, Command like reboot, shutdown
are only run by root, is there a way to run those command to another
user?
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983 [07:21:58] <awal1> use systemctl reboot/poweroff...
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985 [07:22:01] <awal1> jitaram
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1001 [07:29:50] <jitaram> *awal1 i want it shutdown down now
1002 [07:30:02] <jitaram> "shutdown -P now" like this
1003 [07:31:08] <Sir_Designer> jitaram just press the roind button
onyour machine. problem solved.
1004 [07:31:12] <Sir_Designer> round
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1006 [07:31:17] <karankaran> hii
1007 [07:31:17] <awal1> no
1008 [07:31:33] <iflema> jitaram: you could use sudo and edit with
visudo
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1011 [07:32:08] <karankaran> hey i am a hacker of
1012 [07:32:14] <karankaran> your name
1013 [07:32:19] <jitaram> shutdowning is not just the problem, i
want to use most of the root command from another user?
1014 [07:32:19] <Sir_Designer> modern OSes handle disk parkingand
general shutdown hardness gracefully, so no worries. the age of
sync;sync;sync is like museum.
1015 [07:32:52] <karankaran> ss7 attack script
1016 [07:32:54] <awal1> jitaram, don't press power button
unless forced, not good for system and hardware. use
s'systemctl poweroff' ass user, that is equivalent to
shutdown -h or -P now
1017 [07:33:10] <awal1> systemctl poweroff
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1019 [07:33:15] <Sir_Designer> nonsense. olf fashioned crufty
advice, imho.
1020 [07:33:40] <karankaran> hey ae u use in whatsapp
1021 [07:33:59] <Sir_Designer> karankaran would you kindly hush
and go away? this is a debian support channel.
1022 [07:34:19] <karankaran> okkk
1023 [07:34:37] <karankaran> send ur ip
1024 [07:34:40] <awal1> Sir_Designer, elaborate the technical side
of you argument
1025 [07:34:47] <Sir_Designer> awal1 if i must.
1026 [07:35:05] <jitaram> Thank you all.
1027 [07:35:07] <awal1> !ops karankaran spamming
1028 [07:35:07] <dpkg> Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, LoRez, RichiH,
mentor, abrotman, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel,
zobel, themill, babilen, SynrG, jm_, somiaj, jelly, petn-randall:
awal1 complains about a problem (see above)
1029 [07:35:23] <jitaram> iflema how to edit visudo
1030 [07:35:24] <jitaram> ?
1031 [07:35:24] <karankaran> no no
1032 [07:35:29] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o themill
1033 [07:35:31] *** themill sets mode: +b *!*@106.67.17.56
1034 [07:35:32] *** karankaran was kicked by themill (On the Internet
nobody can hear you being subtle.)
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1036 [07:35:34] *** themill sets mode: -o themill
1037 [07:35:34] <Sir_Designer> it is low level debian magic, that
the disk, if ther eis disk, gets nicely parked on power interrupt.
this is a function of hardware as well as software cache purging and
general graceful hadling of power off.
1038 [07:35:57] <jitaram> i am just beginner so...i also want to
run many root command so, it will be the similar process.
1039 [07:35:57] <Sir_Designer> other than file system corruption,
there have not been worries abotu hard pressing off button in
contemporary hardware.
1040 [07:36:00] <Sir_Designer> end of argument.
1041 [07:36:09] <annadane> can you really just shut down via power
button and not damage hardware?
1042 [07:36:23] <annadane> other than file system corruption...
eww
1043 [07:36:27] <Sir_Designer> yes.
1044 [07:36:32] <pingfloyd> that's not going to damage
hardware
1045 [07:36:37] <Sir_Designer> you used to not be able to, but
htat was 30 years ago
1046 [07:36:37] <pingfloyd> where did you get that idea?
1047 [07:36:49] <annadane> well, rather not risk corruption
1048 [07:37:03] <Sir_Designer> no corruption, not with ext 3 or
better.
1049 [07:37:15] <pingfloyd> power cycling has never been damaging
to hardware (assuming your PSU isn't faulty)
1050 [07:37:29] <Sir_Designer> pingfloyd thank you
1051 [07:37:31] <themill> on most hardware, pressing the
powerbutton starts an orderly shutdown
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1053 [07:37:37] <pingfloyd> no problem
1054 [07:37:43] <Sir_Designer> ;)
1055 [07:37:47] <themill> (press and hold it is different)
1056 [07:38:07] <pingfloyd> annadane: the main reason you
don't want to hard reboot/shutdown is because of write caching
1057 [07:38:13] <awal1> well, i was refering to press and hold,
ofcourse
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1059 [07:38:22] <awal1> tgemill
1060 [07:38:28] <jitaram> #exit
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1062 [07:38:33] <pingfloyd> i.e., when you hit the power,
there's no guarantee the cache is flushed
1063 [07:38:44] <Sir_Designer> disk hw flushes.
1064 [07:38:52] <Sir_Designer> on ssd trim does it
1065 [07:39:36] <pingfloyd> that's also the reason you could
get away with it so much in older versions of windows--they had
write caching disabled
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1071 [07:40:40] <pingfloyd> even then though, there is a
opportunity for file inconsistency and lost meta-data
1072 [07:41:11] <themill> (there's also plenty of arm
hardware out there that has no way to power it off other than to
yank the cable...)
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1074 [07:41:36] <Sir_Designer> journaled file ssytem is designed
not to suffer from such trifles.
1075 [07:41:45] <pingfloyd> themill: yeah
1076 [07:41:53] <pingfloyd> themill: used to be even more common
as you go back
1077 [07:42:29] <pingfloyd> in a way a power switch is superfluous
(except software power switches).
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1079 [07:42:58] <pingfloyd> a switch just opens and closes a
circuit which is the same thing as pulling the plug
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1082 [07:44:00] <Sir_Designer> a well-designed circuits shuts off
with pure sine wave; a badly made one may entrain harmonics that do
damage some capacitors.
1083 [07:44:20] <pingfloyd> yeah, bad design is always going to be
a problem one way or another
1084 [07:44:42] <annadane> i can barely tie my shoes in the
morning let alone follow this conversation
1085 [07:44:54] <Sir_Designer> annadane what is your computer?
1086 [07:45:07] <annadane> square box thing. (no, it's a
dell)
1087 [07:45:13] <Sir_Designer> i'll tell you if you can
safely park your thumb on its power button to safely end things in a
jiffy.
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1089 [07:45:26] <Sir_Designer> then you are good to go. enjoy your
button.
1090 [07:45:47] * annadane collects jaw from floor.
1091 [07:46:11] <pingfloyd> annadane: in short, you want to do a
graceful shutdown/reboot to keep the filesystem and data from
becoming corrupted
1092 [07:46:31] <Sir_Designer> 30 years ago
1093 [07:46:33] <Sir_Designer> not today
1094 [07:46:40] <pingfloyd> annadane: you're hardware is
safe, assuming the engineers didn't do something stupid in the
design (a caveat)>
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1109 [07:54:23] <themill> worth remembering that the journal is
only about keeping the filesystem consistent, not about preventing
data loss.
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1113 [07:56:27] <themill> particularly with the default
data=ordered
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1200 [08:57:21] <Das_Fuhrer> Ich bin das Führer
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1202 [08:57:48] <Fox> Das_Fuhrer: go to hell then
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1204 [08:57:50] *** Das_Fuhrer was kicked by themill (On the Internet
nobody can hear you being subtle.)
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1253 [09:32:17] <wr> how can i check on debian logs on a previous
day the time i left using pc?
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1255 [09:32:56] <annadane> wr, can you clarify a little bit? what
information do you want? in other words do you want to know when you
shut down your computer?
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1257 [09:34:41] <wr> annadane, i normally dont shut it, i wanna
know if any log tells me time stop using pc
1258 [09:35:15] <annadane> i think probably you can look through
/var/log/syslog which should be consistent across boots
1259 [09:35:22] <annadane> if anyone has better ideas let me (us)
know
1260 [09:35:43] <wr> annadane, in time, how many days it goes
back?
1261 [09:35:46] <annadane> if you have persistent journalctl you
can journalctl -b -1 for example to see previous boot
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1263 [09:36:10] <annadane> i think it goes back indefinitely and
then when the file grows too big it gets split into multiple files
1264 [09:36:27] <annadane> ls /var/log | grep syslog will show you
how many you have
1265 [09:36:33] <wr> annadane, i can filter it in a day i guess
then
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1269 [09:37:10] <wr> annadane, 7 files parts
1270 [09:37:40] <annadane> so the most recent one will be syslog
and then in order of new -> old, syslog.1, syslog.2 etc
1271 [09:38:18] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o eir
1272 [09:38:20] *** eir sets mode: -bo *!*@106.67.17.56 eir
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1276 [09:39:57] <wr> annadane, i can see in a one liner all files?
1277 [09:40:13] <wr> they have a gz
1278 [09:40:28] <annadane> you mean piece together all the syslog
files? not sure
1279 [09:40:41] <wr> annadane, i mean more filter on all them
1280 [09:40:41] <annadane> though that's likely not what you
mean
1281 [09:40:49] <annadane> not sure
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1287 [09:42:24] <wr> annadane, can be done, just not seeing it how
yet
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1294 [09:45:47] <yareckonirc> morning debian folks, is it kosher
to prod a maintainer to roll a new build to fix a bug?
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1297 [09:46:03] <yareckonirc> how does one do this "the
debian way" ?
1298 [09:46:19] <annadane> ought to just be able to file a normal
bug report
1299 [09:46:30] <annadane> but beware that in stable it may not
get fixed
1300 [09:46:42] <yareckonirc> There is one
replaced-url
1301 [09:46:59] <annadane> ah...
1302 [09:47:07] <annadane> yeah, i'm not sure about that
situation
1303 [09:47:08] <yareckonirc> looks like debian just needs to pull
the next minor point release of X server
1304 [09:47:39] <yareckonirc> Since I don'T know how much
work that is, I don't know how apologietic to be :P
1305 [09:48:10] <yareckonirc> but it's a bug that made me run
X.org instead of wayland for the first time in a year to avoid
system hangs
1306 [09:48:34] <yareckonirc> so I thought, worth asking for a
straightforward refresh from upstream
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1309 [09:49:26] <annadane> ,v xwayland
1310 [09:49:27] <judd> Package: xwayland on amd64 -- jessie:
2:1.16.4-1+deb8u2; jessie-security: 2:1.16.4-1+deb8u2; stretch:
2:1.19.2-1+deb9u2; stretch-security: 2:1.19.2-1+deb9u2; buster:
2:1.19.6-1; sid: 2:1.20.0-2
1311 [09:49:33] <annadane> shame, no backports
1312 [09:49:54] <annadane> yareckonirc, i guess for now just file
the bug anyway, no harm in it
1313 [09:50:20] <annadane> i'm unsure as to official policy
and surely someone does know but for now i'd just file it
1314 [09:50:35] <annadane> if you're polite they won't
get mad
1315 [09:50:51] <yareckonirc> cool
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1317 [09:51:21] <yareckonirc> I will jsut reply to the bug report,
don't think it has the info that the patches were merged into
the next mini release of x
1318 [09:51:42] <annadane> yeah or do that
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1321 [09:52:01] <yareckonirc>
replaced-url
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1323 [09:52:16] <yareckonirc> but thats arch linux numbering I am
noticiing
1324 [09:52:27] <yareckonirc> so it's not an upstream pull
1325 [09:52:33] <yareckonirc> d'oh
1326 [09:52:48] <annadane> well arch has a very different release
schedule to debian stable
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1328 [09:53:33] <yareckonirc> sure, I was remembering the fixed
version being something like 1.20.1 upstream, but rereading it
sounds like arch just did version 5 of their patch set on 1.20.0
1329 [09:53:43] <yareckonirc> if that's what -5 means in arch
too
1330 [09:54:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1586
1331 [09:54:48] <yareckonirc> Thanks, I'll reply to the bug
report and ask for help
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1335 [09:57:19] <annadane> also jesus christ that bug report is
long
1336 [09:58:22] <annadane> yareckonirc, on first impression though
yeah if you raise hell about getting the bug fixed in stable it very
likely will be because it's marked as important and does have a
major effect on the package
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1338 [09:58:27] <annadane> just on first impression though
1339 [09:58:30] <annadane> a maintainer, i am not
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1354 [10:09:39] <dominik2> Hi debian experts
1355 [10:09:55] *** Joins: holmgren (magnus@replaced-ip )
1356 [10:10:02] <drzacek> Hi dominik2
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1358 [10:10:14] <drzacek> just joking, I'm no expert
1359 [10:10:26] <dominik2> I'm trying to create a bootable
usb stick from
replaced-url
1360 [10:10:56] <dominik2> and I tried to do so by just running dd
if=/path/to/iso of=/dev/my-usb-device
1361 [10:11:23] *** Quits: xav92 (~xavier@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1362 [10:11:32] <dominik2> however, afterwards my bios
doesn't allow me to boot from this USB stick
1363 [10:11:51] <drzacek> so far I know this should work, debian
images can be dd-ed to a drive
1364 [10:11:55] <dominik2> it shows up, but when I try to select
it, I cannot boot from it
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1367 [10:12:07] <dominik2> yea, I also remember this working in
the past
1368 [10:12:21] <dominik2> and I'm currently unsure why it
doesn't work on my Lenovo P50
1369 [10:12:27] *** Quits: mkolenda (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1370 [10:12:58] <drzacek> 1) are you sure the iso file downloaded
correctly? 2) are you sure the images was burned correctly (pendrive
too small) 3) correct bios settings? 4) proper hardware (some older
hardware had problems with booting from usb)?
1371 [10:14:13] <annadane> 5) previously friendly neighbor turns
out to be a witch and put a hex on the USB?
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1373 [10:14:46] <yareckonirc> or an octal
1374 [10:15:04] <drzacek> you prepare your usb stick on windows
machine?
1375 [10:15:17] <dominik2> drzacek: I prepared it on a linux
machine
1376 [10:15:35] <themill> did you run sync afterwards?
1377 [10:15:35] <dominik2> after copying the iso, fdisk -l says:
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1380 [10:15:56] <dominik2> Device Boot Start End Sectors Size Id
Type
1381 [10:15:58] <dominik2> /dev/sdb1 * 0 595967 595968 291M 0
Empty
1382 [10:16:00] <dominik2> /dev/sdb2 3760 4591 832 416K ef EFI
(FAT-12/16/32)
1383 [10:16:20] <drzacek> UEFI/MBR boot problem?
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1391 [10:18:52] <drzacek> so from the start - you burn the image,
restart your laptop, have bios configured to boot from usb and then
what happens? you get any message,errors?
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1409 [10:35:21] <annadane> hmm, where is "trash" in the
file system
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1414 [10:36:45] <perr-paranoic> Hi, I can't open a file group
with one only application. I tried to change settings, but it
doesn't save.
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1416 [10:37:15] <themill> annadane: ~/.local/share/Trash/
1417 [10:37:16] <dominik2> drzacek: yes, that's pretty much
it. And I don't get any errors. Its just that when I try to
boot into the usb stick
1418 [10:37:22] <dominik2> it goes out of it immediately again
1419 [10:37:24] <annadane> ta
1420 [10:37:28] <MatijaT> annadane: /home/$USER/.local/share/Trash
1421 [10:37:30] <dominik2> sorry for my late reply, I was afk
1422 [10:37:46] <dominik2> I'll try the procedure once more
now
1423 [10:38:12] <yareckonirc> what's the deal with the gitlab
instance
replaced-url
1424 [10:38:17] <themill> dominik2: I've seen this with
cheapo usb sticks given out for free at conferences
1425 [10:38:35] <dominik2> hmmm, ok.
1426 [10:38:41] <dominik2> maybe that is the reason then.
1427 [10:38:45] <dominik2> let me try a different stick
1428 [10:38:59] <dominik2> but do you guys think that the
partition table looks alright
1429 [10:39:02] <dominik2> ?
1430 [10:39:07] <dominik2> (the one I posted above)
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1433 [10:39:31] <themill> the installer has a weird partition
layout that fdisk doesn't like because it's being both a
hard disk and a CD image
1434 [10:39:44] <dominik2> hmm, ok.
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1436 [10:41:22] <annadane> yareckonirc, dunno what you mean but
salsa is the migrated form of alioth where various debian teams put
their projects and stuff
1437 [10:41:40] <yareckonirc> Ah
replaced-url
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1439 [10:42:18] <yareckonirc> Just want to know if it's
semi-official, or it is a preproduction experiement that isn't
used yet
1440 [10:42:25] <yareckonirc> seems legit though :)
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1442 [10:42:35] <annadane> yeah it's official
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1444 [10:42:58] <annadane> i should go through it someday,
interesting stuff
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1446 [10:43:33] <Eightynine> I can't connect Wi-Fi though
firmware is installed. WHen I'm trying to connect it
doesn't show any messages why it failed to connect.
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1448 [10:44:55] <themill> yareckonirc: grep -c Vcs.*salsa
/var/lib/apt/lists/*Sources →
/var/lib/apt/lists/deb.debian.org_debian_dists_sid_main_source_Sources:16862;
sounds like it's gone beyond a test.
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1453 [10:46:08] <yareckonirc> but I guess cause it's git only
it's not replacing older systems completely, and is opt-in?
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1455 [10:46:17] <BCMM> yareckonirc: definitely official,
they've even got rid of Alioth in favour of it
1456 [10:46:20] <annadane> perr-paranoic, what settings did you
try changing
1457 [10:46:46] <yareckonirc> I like gitlab
1458 [10:46:48] <annadane> also what are you trying to open in
what application
1459 [10:47:21] <themill> yareckonirc: that's only the
packages that have been uploaded with the updated Vcs* fields. There
are many more there.
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1467 [10:50:53] <perr-paranoic> annadane: In general setting
"file" and I tried also to change "open with"...
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1469 [10:51:51] <annadane> perr-paranoic, which desktop
environment/window manager are you on, i'm not sure the command
line way to change file associations
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1472 [10:54:09] <perr-paranoic> annadane: I have KDE. I have
created a group file, now it isn't default openening with Ark
(zip) but every time I have to select application to correct
opening.
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1475 [10:55:09] <annadane> not sure why it isn't working
unfortunatel
1476 [10:55:11] <annadane> y
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1487 [11:03:35] <annadane> where does feh save its saved images?
1488 [11:03:40] <annadane> if you press s on an image
1489 [11:04:03] <annadane> oh, same directory, nvm
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1491 [11:06:49] <babilen> And there I thought "random
directory somewhere in the filesystem" was a good idea
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1494 [11:09:38] <annadane> feh is ridiculously useful, i wish i
knew about all this before
1495 [11:09:48] <annadane> who needs other image viewers
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1512 [11:19:58] <lupulo> hi, according to
replaced-url
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1516 [11:20:51] <yareckonirc> I use feh to view QR codes I
generate on the commandline as a kind of "clipboard to
Phone"
1517 [11:20:53] <yareckonirc> works great
1518 [11:20:56] <yareckonirc> feh rocks
1519 [11:21:52] <BCMM> yareckonirc: tried kdeconnect? i've
got automatic clipboard sync with my phone over the LAN
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1521 [11:22:08] <perr-paranoic> annadane: thanks I will try other
things...
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1524 [11:24:03] <yareckonirc> BCMM, that sounds like a great
feature, unfortunately I'm a very gnome person... deep respect
for the kde folks, but not for me
1525 [11:24:38] <BCMM> yareckonirc: is that because you think you
need to run a full kde everything to use kdeconnect, or because you
just don't want any kde-related software at all?
1526 [11:24:45] <yareckonirc> lol, just sounded like I said I have
no self respect.. may be true, but meant KDE is not for me
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1529 [11:24:58] <BCMM> just asking because there's this
weirdly widespread belief that you can't use kdeconnect on
gnome
1530 [11:25:13] <yareckonirc> BCMM that is my assumption, yes
1531 [11:25:27] <yareckonirc> based on years of gnome and kde
people abusing dependency trees
1532 [11:25:52] <yareckonirc> I have learned to stick with one
horrible octopus of deps
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1534 [11:26:15] <[diablo]> Good morning #debian ... guys I put in
my box a StarTech.com PEXM2SAT32N1 with a Samsung EVO 970 M.2 ...
but now my onboard NIC is not functioning (Although I can see it
with ip a s ... but can't ping anything) ... if I remove the
PCIe and reboot, NIC works
1535 [11:26:19] <[diablo]> any ideas please?
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1538 [11:27:16] <yareckonirc> whoa, sounds like a motherboard
problem?
1539 [11:27:22] <BCMM> yareckonirc: huh, good news... apparently
there's now a gnome reimplementation of the protocol that
doesn't depend on the original kdeconnect
replaced-url
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1541 [11:27:49] <[diablo]> yareckonirc could be.. it's a
Medion box...
1542 [11:27:59] <[diablo]> and an ECS mobo branded as Medion
1543 [11:27:59] <BCMM> [diablo]: what do you mean by "remove
the pcie"?
1544 [11:28:17] <[diablo]> BCMM if I power off the box and remove
the PCIe card with the M.2 drive
1545 [11:28:30] <yareckonirc> Thanks BCMM, that sure does look
"gnome like"
1546 [11:28:36] <yareckonirc> maybe will be tempted to try it
1547 [11:28:39] <yareckonirc> :P
1548 [11:28:40] <BCMM> [diablo]: ah, didn't clock that
PEXM2SAT32N1 was an adaptor board
1549 [11:28:49] <[diablo]> np
1550 [11:28:58] <BCMM> yareckonirc: i don't know what the
gnome integration is like, but from kde it's pretty brilliant
1551 [11:29:22] <BCMM> yareckonirc: pausing multimedia playback on
the desktop when i get a phone call is nice
1552 [11:29:37] <yareckonirc> That is pretty hot
1553 [11:29:39] <BCMM> a few times already it's stopped me
missing a call because i had headphones on
1554 [11:29:53] <yareckonirc> extra super kudos for F-Droid
version of the app
1555 [11:30:07] <[diablo]> I've got a 4 x port Intel NIC
kicking around my garage, perhaps I could pop that in and disable
onboard NIC
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1557 [11:30:13] <BCMM> and it does it over mpris so any media
player that doesn't suck works with it :)
1558 [11:30:42] <BCMM> [diablo]: any chance the PSU is overloaded
when you've got everything connected?
1559 [11:30:53] <[diablo]> BCMM highly unlikely
1560 [11:30:56] <bites> your cpu has limited pcie lanes. if the
nic does not go through the chipset, the motherboard might shut it
down if you use up more than 16 pcie lanes with expansion cards.
check the manual of your mother board.
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1562 [11:31:30] <[diablo]> bites LOL, sadly there's no mobo
manual
1563 [11:31:31] <BCMM> it *shouldn't* be easy to break pcie
for the whole system from a single faulty device (like it was with
pci's single-bus approach)
1564 [11:31:45] <[diablo]> bites it's a prebuilt box by
Medion ...
1565 [11:31:58] <[diablo]> was cheap cheap and with 32GB RAM,
using it for a hypervisor
1566 [11:32:11] <BCMM> bites: ooooh that's a good point. but
even m.2 bandwidth is fairly small compared to what, say, a pcie
graphics card uses, right?
1567 [11:32:11] <bites> [diablo]: medion does not manufacture
parts. check what motherboard is inside and find documentation
online.
1568 [11:32:15] <[diablo]> hence the reason for popping in the M.2
drive
1569 [11:32:35] <bites> BCMM: yes, usually 4 lanes.
1570 [11:32:39] <[diablo]> bites yeah I know, it's ECS... but
they build that mobo exclusivly for Medion, really there's no
info
1571 [11:32:50] <bites> well, that sucks. ^^
1572 [11:33:17] <[diablo]> sorry gotta run.. back shortly
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1588 [11:38:23] <yareckonirc> thanks for the help folks, see you
soon
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1689 [12:41:29] <dziegler> Hi, i try to run the command
"pbuilder-dist bionic create" as a sudo user. But I get
the error "sudo: sorry, you are not allowed to set the
following environment variables: ARCHITECTURE, DISTRIBUTION, ARCH,
DIST, DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS". Does anyone know how my sudoers file
needs to look for pbuilder? I use "jenkins ALL=(ALL) NOPASSWD:
/usr/bin/pbuilder-dist, /usr/sbin/chroot, /usr/sbin/pbuilder"
at the moment.
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1706 [12:49:58] <kale> would you happen to know of a program in
debian equivalent to the good old terminal emulator from windows XP?
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1708 [12:50:35] <kale> hyperterm that is
1709 [12:51:02] <Kelsar> or minicom, screen, they all can do
serial
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1711 [12:51:32] <kale> i am doing tcp/ip though
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1714 [12:52:58] <Pol__> Holass alguen me contesta?
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1722 [12:55:54] <oaken-source> Hi, is it possible to boot a
netinst iso into a usable live system?
1723 [12:55:58] <oaken-source> I only need a shell and apt.
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##replaced-url
1726 [12:56:37] <oaken-source> the boot menu only gives me 3
install options, and a rescue one. choosing the rescue option gives
me a shell, but no apt.
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1753 [13:09:27] <michael2> oaken-source: the netinstaller is an
installer - not a live session - it will try install files into a
file system / block device
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1872 [14:13:01] <rafalcpp> how to send, from console, an email -
but using my normal email account (with login/pass/etc provided in
cmdline, or better in a config file)?
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##replaced-url
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1905 [14:29:46] <Craig_> zardozzzz! zardozzzzzzzz!
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1907 [14:29:52] <Craig_> </film trailer>
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2028 [15:20:20] <Truk_> hello i have /bin/bash: source: No such
file or directory when i do /bin/bash source $HOME/.profile
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2048 [15:32:37] <vlt> Truk_: Tried `source ...`?
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2054 [15:36:21] <Iridos> Truk_, what are you trying to do with
that
2055 [15:36:37] <Truk_> i use docker
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2057 [15:37:01] <Truk_> when i do /bin/bash -c "source
$HOME/.profile" in a dockerfile i have stdin: is not a tty
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2060 [15:37:27] <Truk_> but inside the container i have no problem
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2062 [15:38:09] <Iridos> rafalcpp, mutt and alpine can be
configured to use external email accounts. I think all the simple
commandline tools in unix just use your local account
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2068 [15:41:41] <rafalcpp> Iridos: and you can send through
mutt/alpine from cmd line (in a bash script)?
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2071 [15:43:03] <Iridos> dunno, they're ncurses applications
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2080 [15:45:31] <Iridos> you can configure your own email server
to send mail through external accounts… but those aren't
one-user solutions, as far as I remember…
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2085 [15:49:00] <rafalcpp> :{
2086 [15:49:36] <bites> Truk_: source is a bash builtin not a
binary. RUN in the docker file uses /bin/sh, which is symlinked to
dash in debian, so source doesn't work. when you enter a
container you likely specify /bin/bash as command.
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2177 [16:29:29] <duser> I am investigating a laptop,which has
wireless Realtek 802.11 b/g/n/ac 2x2 +Bluetooth 4.2 (vPro disabled),
and AMD Ryzen™ 7 PRO 2700U processor. Basically it's hp
elitebook
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2180 [16:29:52] <greycat> Ryzen is one of those bleeding edge
things, isn't it...
2181 [16:29:54] <duser> is there linux hardware website that might
provide compatible info?
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2183 [16:30:11] <duser> @greycat yes
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2187 [16:30:40] <greycat> duser: it's highly unlikely that
Debian stable will work on it; you MIGHT be able to get testing to
install, or maybe not, I don't know
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2190 [16:31:13] <somiaj> I think there are still some issue to
work out with Ryzen, even in the newest kernels. Not quite sure, but
someone here was going through a lot of effort to compile a kernel
for rezyn to work in stable
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2192 [16:31:27] <shtrb> anyone have a suggestion for a UI that can
get info from sensord or other sensor sources (like smartctl) ?
2193 [16:31:37] <duser> yeah i generally use testing.
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2195 [16:31:50] <somiaj> shtrb: conkey is one such tool
2196 [16:31:57] <duser> @greycat i see thanks.
2197 [16:32:03] <somiaj> shtrb: sorry, just conky
2198 [16:32:13] <Meerkat> Is gnome-internet-radio-locator not
available in Debian?
2199 [16:32:27] <somiaj> shtrb: gkrellm is another, though I think
conky is more popular these days.
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2204 [16:32:38] <shtrb> thanks somiaj
2205 [16:32:53] <shtrb> ,v conky
2206 [16:32:54] <judd> Package: conky on amd64 -- wheezy:
1.9.0-2+deb7u1; jessie: 1.9.0-6; jessie-backports: 1.10.6-1~bpo8+1;
stretch: 1.10.6-1; sid: 1.10.6-1.1; buster: 1.10.8-1; sid: 1.10.8-1
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2220 [16:36:39] <shtrb> somiaj, and am I asking too much if it
would be able to read power readings ? (like knutclient)
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2223 [16:38:35] <somiaj> shtrb: conky and gkrellm are both
configurable and scriptable, they shoudl be able to read lots and
lost of system info and you can build your own ui that displays it
2224 [16:38:47] <somiaj> I don't use either, so I can't
tell you more details than they should
2225 [16:39:04] <somiaj> you can put network info, cpu info, logs,
etc I belive
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2227 [16:39:07] <somiaj> (as well)
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2230 [16:39:51] <shtrb> oh thanks again
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2236 [16:42:09] <vandman_> hi, in a bridge, Everything work when I
share my phone connexion through usb cable. But it does not work
when I share wifi. Does anyone knows why?
2237 [16:42:38] *** Joins: holmgren (magnus@replaced-ip )
2238 [16:42:42] <vandman_> whith bridge_ports enp0s20f0u1, it
works fine.
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2242 [16:43:18] <vandman_> with bridge_ports enp0s20f0u1 wlp2s0,
it does not work with the wifi?
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2266 [16:52:51] *** Joins: worldnet (~Instantbi@replaced-ip )
2267 [16:52:58] <worldnet> #Koinange #Hillbrow #SvayPak #Sonagachi
#AngelesCity #PatpongPattaya
2268 [16:53:35] <greycat> are you going to make me kickban you, or
are you going to go away on your own
2269 [16:54:05] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o greycat
2270 [16:54:15] *** greycat sets mode: +b *!*@115.164.94.159
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2272 [16:54:23] *** worldnet was kicked by greycat (worldnet)
2273 [16:54:28] *** greycat sets mode: -o greycat
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2277 [16:57:21] <otyugh> hey there
2278 [16:57:40] <otyugh> I was wondering with other people why the
security repo isn't available in https ?
2279 [16:58:10] <greycat>
replaced-url
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2281 [16:58:39] *** Joins: faheem_ (~faheem@replaced-ip )
2282 [16:58:39] <otyugh> Because signing ?
2283 [16:58:41] *** Quits: doubledu1ch (~b@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2284 [16:59:18] <otyugh> greycat, I'm no security expert.
What do you think of that :
replaced-url
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2290 [17:02:02] <petn-randall> otyugh: Attack #1: If you disable
GPG checks, you can push arbitrary code to the victim. DUH.
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2294 [17:03:27] <petn-randall> Attack #2 doesn't even work
because that's not how package downgrades work. I wonder if the
author even tried it.
2295 [17:03:31] *** Joins: SopaXorzTaker (~SopaXorzT@replaced-ip )
2296 [17:04:30] <abrotman> I thought netstat would be able to do
this, but I don't see it .. Anyone aware of a way to get the
number of sessions to a single port? I mean, I could for instance
"netstat -an | grep ':443' | wc -l", but that
seems dirty
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2300 [17:06:16] <hicks> otyugh: apt over https makes sense as a
default regardless of whether those attacks are valid or not imo.
It's an extra line of defense that might cya should another bug
be found where sigs are incorrectly checked or bypassable.
2301 [17:06:37] *** Joins: TehRabbitt (c6117046@replaced-ip )
2302 [17:06:37] <greycat> abrotman: Probably nothing cleaner than
ss -t | awk '$4 ~ /:1234$/{total++} END {print total}'
2303 [17:06:38] *** Joins: internet_user2 (~internet_@replaced-ip )
2304 [17:06:40] <hicks> that AllowInsecureRepositories part of
attack 1, seems there's a bug report related to that
replaced-url
2305 [17:06:41] <judd> Bug
replaced-url
2306 [17:06:57] <greycat> abrotman: (untested)
2307 [17:07:13] <TehRabbitt> hey i'm running into issues with
not being able to run aptitude update... GPG errors galore.
2308 [17:07:18] <TehRabbitt> relatively fresh install
2309 [17:07:38] *** Quits: Neo_Chen (~Neo_Chen@replaced-ip ) (Quit: NW ITS NOT IN OPERATION.)
2310 [17:07:56] <petn-randall> !bat
2311 [17:07:57] <dpkg> In order to troubleshoot your problem with
apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information:
1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the
command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1
pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem,
and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use
replaced-url
2312 [17:08:08] <petn-randall> TehRabbitt: Can you provide *all*
of the info above in a single paste?
2313 [17:08:22] <TehRabbitt> petn-randall: yeah. give me a min.
2314 [17:08:27] *** Quits: doubledu1ch (~b@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2315 [17:08:31] <petn-randall> TehRabbitt: Sure, we've got
time.
2316 [17:08:55] <bites> petn-randall: replay attacks work. release
files have a valid-until field to mitigate this, but that still
leaves a window of a few days.
2317 [17:09:12] *** Joins: SweetyDumling (~Sir_Desig@replaced-ip )
2318 [17:09:15] <shtrb> greycat, is that your site or something ?
2319 [17:09:20] <abrotman> greycat: okay, thanks
2320 [17:09:34] <greycat> shtrb: what, the apt not using https
one? No.
2321 [17:09:48] *** Joins: vandman__ (~vandman@replaced-ip )
2322 [17:09:51] <shtrb> yes , that is an amazing idea
2323 [17:09:59] <hicks> I'd expect freeze attacks are viable
too. People can use alternative means to download package info such
as over tor and not over tor making it less likely both avenues
would be blocked.
2324 [17:10:08] <limbo_> TehRabbitt: does it tell you what the
missing keys are?
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2327 [17:10:37] <TehRabbitt> limbo_: yes, but when I try to add
them, it's still not working.
2328 [17:11:06] <limbo_> adding them is not working, or updating
your software lists is not working?
2329 [17:11:07] <petn-randall> bites: TLS won't stop replay
attacks. Don't forget that the whole package mirroring assumed
that the mirror server is not trustworthy.
2330 [17:11:12] <abrotman> greycat: -tn, but otherwise, it's
fine .. Cheers
2331 [17:11:21] *** Joins: eric23 (~user@replaced-ip )
2332 [17:11:50] <petn-randall> s/assumed/assumes/
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2338 [17:12:26] <bites> petn-randall: sure, doesn't help if
the mirror is malicious, but it makes mitm harder.
2339 [17:12:43] <TehRabbitt>
replaced-url
2340 [17:13:01] <TehRabbitt> limbo_: updating software lists after
adding them is not working.
2341 [17:13:19] <limbo_> https repos avoid problems coming from
networks that mitm you to show a captive portal or something.
2342 [17:13:20] <TehRabbitt> limbo_: above paste includes the run
of the apt update.
2343 [17:13:32] <petn-randall> bites: All those described attacks
somehow assume that you disable GPG signature checking. And if
that's the case, TLS won't help you.
2344 [17:13:36] *** Quits: vandman_ (~vandman@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2345 [17:13:45] <limbo_> TehRabbitt: apt-key is borked.
2346 [17:13:58] <TehRabbitt> limbo_: how does that even happen o_o
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2349 [17:14:20] <limbo_> TehRabbitt: maybe it's not properly
installed, or the config files are fugged.
2350 [17:14:32] <limbo_> I don't know, it's your
machine.
2351 [17:14:33] <petn-randall> TehRabbitt: 'Unknown error
executing apt-key' <-- this sounds like your installation is
broken. How did you install?
2352 [17:14:34] <TehRabbitt> limbo_: fresh install :\
2353 [17:14:37] *** Joins: oerheks (~oerheks@replaced-ip )
2354 [17:14:42] <limbo_> run apt-key
2355 [17:14:43] <TehRabbitt> petn-randall: clean iso install
2356 [17:15:10] <petn-randall> TehRabbitt: Which ISO? How did you
prepare the installation medium?
2357 [17:15:11] <bites> petn-randall: replay attacks replace
current metadata with older metadata that still has a valid
signatures to prevent updates.
2358 [17:15:14] <TehRabbitt>
replaced-url
2359 [17:15:21] <limbo_> petn-randall: disable PGP, or try to add
a key from an unencrypted keyserver.
2360 [17:15:32] <petn-randall> bites: So what? You can also do
that attack via TLS by DoS.
2361 [17:15:36] <limbo_> petn-randall: e.g. if you use 32-bit key
IDs.
2362 [17:15:53] <TehRabbitt> petn-randall: it's a VM,
straight from debian-9.4.0-amd64-netinst.iso
2363 [17:16:22] <limbo_> did the netinstall finish?
2364 [17:16:25] <TehRabbitt> yes.
2365 [17:16:29] <petn-randall> TehRabbitt: Did you go through all
installation steps by hand, or some automated install?
2366 [17:16:30] <TehRabbitt> this was all working the past week
2367 [17:16:32] <TehRabbitt> stopped working today.
2368 [17:16:35] *** Quits: brontosaurusrex (~ticho@replaced-ip ) (Quit: brontosaurusrex)
2369 [17:16:53] <petn-randall> TehRabbitt: Does `apt-key list` run
fine?
2370 [17:16:57] <TehRabbitt> yes
2371 [17:16:59] * petn-randall guesses on FS corruption.
2372 [17:17:02] <bites> petn-randall: you can't be serious.
2373 [17:17:13] <bites> petn-randall: yes, you can also cut their
cable.
2374 [17:17:17] <petn-randall> bites: ?
2375 [17:18:02] *** Joins: Hallodri (~Vizva@replaced-ip )
2376 [17:18:37] <TehRabbitt> okay this *is* bizzare.
2377 [17:18:46] *** Joins: fralala-dadadu (~border@replaced-ip )
2378 [17:18:52] <TehRabbitt> I have an identical clone of the
machine from yesterday, apt-update works fine.
2379 [17:19:12] <bites> how important you value that potential
attack vector is up to you, i personally don't think it's
important. but i can see why someone would want to use https
mirrors.
2380 [17:19:30] <TehRabbitt> I can just use that machine and
reclone it.... but it still makes me concerned why this is suddenly
broken. All i've installed since yesterday is: 1.) python 2.)
python-pip
2381 [17:19:51] <petn-randall> bites: Ok, let's put it so:
Given a replay attack, an attacker would have a small time window to
delay updates on a server possibly going undetected, whereas other
methods are easier to detect. Given that most mirrors don't
offer TLS, and it might tempt users to assume that signature
checking can be turned off because "it's encrypted",
I'll always recommend to not use it.
2382 [17:19:57] *** Joins: doubledu1ch (~b@replaced-ip )
2383 [17:20:23] <petn-randall> bites: The other thing is that
you'll end up piping a lot of things through TLS handshakes and
other TLS things, which is an attack vector itself.
2384 [17:20:58] *** Quits: Haudegen (~quassel@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2385 [17:21:43] *** Quits: Vizva (~Vizva@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2386 [17:21:55] <TehRabbitt> okay on the clone system, I did an
apt update / apt upgrade, it does a bunch of stuff and then returns
at the end APT had planned for dpkg to do more than it reported back
40 vs 44 Affected packages: fail2ban
2387 [17:22:17] <TehRabbitt> but it seems that one updates fine...
2388 [17:22:32] *** Joins: Akuw (~kenny@replaced-ip )
2389 [17:22:37] <Akuw> hi guys
2390 [17:22:41] *** Quits: NetTerminalGene (~NetTermin@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2391 [17:22:41] <petn-randall> TehRabbitt: How did you
install/upgrade python and python-pip?
2392 [17:22:52] <TehRabbitt> apt install python-pip
2393 [17:23:01] <TehRabbitt> 68 new packages to install.
2394 [17:23:10] <TehRabbitt> i'm running the install on the
clone to see if the same thing ahppens.
2395 [17:23:25] <Akuw> i have a question related to rsync, suppose
i have a dir1 with 10gb of files to copy to dir2
2396 [17:23:41] <TehRabbitt> I did notice it caused a dependency
issue with gcc by installing python-pip before build-essential
2397 [17:23:41] <Akuw> then when i run rsync this copy file
changed ?
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2402 [17:24:13] <TehRabbitt> okay, so yeah, idk what the hell
happened to that box but it's borked.
2403 [17:24:15] <TehRabbitt> ugh
2404 [17:24:26] <petn-randall> TehRabbitt: From the sounds of it,
the first machine might already be broken.
2405 [17:24:26] <Akuw> i am asking becuase every time i run rsync
all list is showed
2406 [17:24:31] *** Quits: dosmanak (~dosmanak@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2407 [17:24:38] <TehRabbitt> sounds like it...
2408 [17:24:48] <TehRabbitt> libc had a version mismatch as well
which was weird / strange
2409 [17:25:23] <petn-randall> TehRabbitt: Just running 'apt
update && apt upgrade' it should seldomly install new
packages, and there should never be any held back packages.
2410 [17:25:52] <TehRabbitt> on the original one? it won't
even update.
2411 [17:25:55] <TehRabbitt> complains about the apt-key thing
2412 [17:25:58] *** Joins: sigsts (~sigsts@replaced-ip )
2413 [17:26:00] <TehRabbitt> the clone from yesterday works fine.
2414 [17:26:31] <TehRabbitt> I'm going to just have to use
the "good" one, take a VM snapshot and clone it again
2415 [17:26:44] <TehRabbitt> Just frustrating why suddenly APT
stopped working
2416 [17:26:57] <petn-randall> TehRabbitt: I'm guessing that
something got corrupted during cloning.
2417 [17:26:58] <mikeymop> Does anyone know how to remove a
package using dpkg
2418 [17:27:03] <mikeymop> I can't use apt
2419 [17:27:10] <greycat> mikeymop: dpkg --remove, or dpkg --purge
2420 [17:27:21] <petn-randall> mikeymop: No surveys please, you
can ask your real question though.
2421 [17:27:30] <petn-randall> mikeymop: Why can't you use
apt?
2422 [17:27:33] <TehRabbitt> I did have to install dirmngr because
apparently it wasn't installed on the clone;.
2423 [17:27:33] <mikeymop> thank you!
2424 [17:27:57] *** Joins: dri2 (~dri@replaced-ip )
2425 [17:28:32] <mikeymop> petn-randall: I am using Fedora
currently, and have a propriatary software that is only available as
a .deb. I tried alien but it didn't work, however fedora has
dpkg in their repos so I wanted to try just using dpkg. (needed to
know a way to go back should it fail)
2426 [17:28:33] *** Joins: OS-39180 (~OS-39180@replaced-ip )
2427 [17:28:42] <mikeymop> what survey?
2428 [17:29:15] <somiaj> mikeymop: you should ask fedora support
how to best handel installing .deb software on their system.
2429 [17:29:22] <mikeymop> they suggested alien
2430 [17:29:33] <mikeymop> but the resulting package failed
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2432 [17:30:13] <somiaj> still asking #debian to support fedora
and some propriatary nonfree software (which isn't in debian)
is not going to do much good.
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2434 [17:30:40] <mikeymop> I've been all over already
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2436 [17:30:54] <mikeymop> greycat was the only person who
didn't just redirect
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2438 [17:31:17] <mikeymop> I was at the point of reading a user
script who attempted it
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2441 [17:31:53] <TehRabbitt> Okay so that is bizzare... rebooting
it fixed everything
2442 [17:32:00] <TehRabbitt> i'm going to go with FS
Corruption.
2443 [17:32:08] <TehRabbitt> petn-randall: fixed 2 inoes during
boot
2444 [17:32:10] <TehRabbitt> inodes*
2445 [17:32:20] <TehRabbitt> most likely like you said, during the
cloning it messed with things.
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2450 [17:34:19] <greycat> mikeymop: that's because the others
are actually trying to help you, while I was simply being lazy
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2452 [17:35:39] <mikeymop> strange, I felt the opposite
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2454 [17:35:57] <mikeymop> almost as strange as dpkg being in RHEL
repos xD
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2456 [17:37:16] <greycat> ,v rpm
2457 [17:37:17] <judd> Package: rpm on amd64 -- wheezy:
4.10.0-5+deb7u2; wheezy-security: 4.10.0-5+deb7u2; jessie:
4.11.3-1.1; jessie-backports: 4.12.0.2+dfsg1-2~bpo8+1; stretch:
4.12.0.2+dfsg1-2; buster: 4.14.1+dfsg1-3; sid: 4.14.1+dfsg1-3
2458 [17:37:26] <somiaj> the nature of propriatary software is to
seek support from the owners/makers of said software.
2459 [17:37:29] <greycat> Just because it's there
doesn't mean you should use it.
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2461 [17:37:49] <somiaj> and installing random packages with it
could cause unforseen affects and break y our system.
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2463 [17:38:11] <greycat> (Or at least, don't use the
dangerous parts of it. Using rpm to query the contents of a .rpm
file on Debian is perfectly safe.)
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2469 [17:42:42] <mikeymop> Yea I presumed both linages have the
other distro's package utility for the purpose of facilitating
conversions
2470 [17:43:57] <Akuw> i am using rsync and destination is bigger
than source
2471 [17:44:02] <Akuw> little diference
2472 [17:44:05] <Akuw> why?
2473 [17:44:17] <Akuw> i delete all in destination and run rsync
again
2474 [17:44:24] <Akuw> but little diference again
2475 [17:44:26] <greycat> Different file system types?
2476 [17:44:27] <petn-randall> Akuw: What is the actual command
you're running? What do you get? What do you expect?
2477 [17:44:37] <greycat> Different block sizes, etc.?
2478 [17:45:01] <greycat> Also, are you measuring the
"size" with df, or with du?
2479 [17:45:02] <Akuw> rsync -aivr
/home/kenny/AndroidStudioProjects/ copy/
2480 [17:45:09] <Akuw> du
2481 [17:46:03] <Akuw> source total: 152672 Destination: 152960
2482 [17:46:08] <greycat> Remember that du and df report disk
blocks, which may be larger than the files, and the two systems may
have different file system block sizes.
2483 [17:46:14] <greycat> wooledg:~$ echo x > onebyte; du -sh
onebyte
2484 [17:46:14] <greycat> 4.0K onebyte
2485 [17:46:23] <Akuw> hummmmm
2486 [17:46:26] <Akuw> ok
2487 [17:46:38] <greycat> (well, two bytes, because echo adds \n
but still)
2488 [17:46:39] <petn-randall> Akuw: -r is redundant when using
-a. Also, if you don't use --delete in some form, you might end
up with more file in dest than in source.
2489 [17:46:54] <Akuw> ok
2490 [17:47:15] <Akuw> --delete is to delete in destination when
any file or folder is deleted in source right?
2491 [17:47:29] <petn-randall> Akuw: Without --delete, it will
leave an extra files that are in dest but not source on the disk.
2492 [17:47:32] <petn-randall> *any
2493 [17:47:43] <Akuw> ok
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2541 [18:06:44] <joejoejoe> Hello!
2542 [18:06:51] <joejoejoe> How can I get sound on Debian?
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2545 [18:07:32] <swickrotation> joejoejoe alsamixer perhaps?
What's the problem
2546 [18:07:46] *** Quits: Vizva (~Vizva@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2547 [18:07:49] <joejoejoe> Oh, I already have sound!
2548 [18:07:54] *** Joins: saurabh_londhe (~Saurabh@replaced-ip )
2549 [18:08:05] <petn-randall> joejoejoe: Glad we could help :)
2550 [18:08:10] <swickrotation> hahahah
2551 [18:08:13] <swickrotation> :)
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2554 [18:08:30] <mnuhmnuh> ready, shoot, aim. oh, wait.
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2556 [18:09:39] <joejoejoe> But only in Chromium.
2557 [18:09:41] *** Quits: Neo_Chen (~Neo_Chen@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2558 [18:09:42] <joejoejoe> Not in FireFox.
2559 [18:09:43] <joejoejoe> Why?
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2561 [18:09:59] <swickrotation> huh, that's weird!
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2563 [18:10:25] <swickrotation> Have you checked the firefox
settings? That sounds more like a firefox problem than an anything
2564 [18:10:36] <swickrotation> anything*
2565 [18:10:39] <joejoejoe> swickrotation: FF has sound settings?
2566 [18:10:41] <greycat> recent firefox doesn't have ALSA
sound support; only PulseAudi
2567 [18:10:48] <swickrotation> Ooooh
2568 [18:10:51] <mnuhmnuh> are you sure? maybe chromium's the
only one using good volume?
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2574 [18:13:45] <joejoejoe> Is there anything I can do to get
sound in Firefox?
2575 [18:14:07] *** Quits: doubledu1ch (~b@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2576 [18:14:40] <swickrotation> If there's pulseaudi support,
you probs have to download the associated packages for pulseaudi
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2578 [18:14:51] <swickrotation> which uh, might just be pulseaudi
idk for sure
2579 [18:15:11] <joejoejoe> swickrotation: What do you mean?
I'm a debian newby.
2580 [18:15:21] <joejoejoe> Used Mint before. In Mint sound just
worked.
2581 [18:16:14] <swickrotation> what desktop environment are you
using
2582 [18:16:24] <joejoejoe> Mate
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2584 [18:16:41] <swickrotation> ok, open up a terminal and try
typing pavucontrol
2585 [18:17:13] <swickrotation> get anything?
2586 [18:17:25] <joejoejoe> Yes
2587 [18:17:30] <joejoejoe> bash: pavucontrol: command not found
2588 [18:17:35] <swickrotation> hahaha
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2590 [18:17:47] <swickrotation> I would call that getting nothing,
but that works too!
2591 [18:18:24] <swickrotation> ok, so it looks like you
don't have pulse audio, which is a little weird I think! Did
you go on a sweep removing some excess packages?
2592 [18:18:33] <greycat> Or he never installed it to begin with.
2593 [18:18:53] <swickrotation> Should come automatically with
mate according to debian wiki
2594 [18:18:54] <greycat> Which is typically the case if you
don't install one of the big Desktop Environments.
2595 [18:19:21] <joejoejoe> I installed mate-desktop-environment
2596 [18:19:25] <joejoejoe> Chromium has sound.
2597 [18:20:01] <greycat> Bot says there's
mate-desktop-environment-extras for "more things"
2598 [18:20:06] <swickrotation> ok just to be super sure, would
you type sudo dpkg --list
2599 [18:20:13] <greycat> you don't need sudo for that
2600 [18:20:54] <joejoejoe> "dpkg --list | grep -i
pulse" shows some stuff about pulse.
2601 [18:20:58] <swickrotation> lol I've been muscle
memory-ing a sudo into dpkg --list for like a year then
2602 [18:21:12] <swickrotation> huh
2603 [18:21:17] <greycat> ,file bin/pavucontrol
2604 [18:21:22] <judd> Search for bin/pavucontrol in
stretch/amd64: pavucontrol: usr/bin/pavucontrol; pavucontrol-dbg:
usr/lib/debug/usr/bin/pavucontrol
2605 [18:21:39] <joejoejoe> ?
2606 [18:22:14] <greycat> Looks like pavucontrol is a separate
package.
2607 [18:22:32] <greycat> That might be one of those
"extras" the bot was talking about in the "install
mate" factoid.
2608 [18:23:07] <joejoejoe> when I type "pulseaudio" on
the command line it says there is no command with that name.
2609 [18:23:13] <joejoejoe> So I guess I have it not installed?
2610 [18:23:36] <greycat> seems so
2611 [18:24:06] <joejoejoe> so "apt-install pulseaudio"?
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2616 [18:25:37] <joejoejoe> I will just try 'apt install
pulseaudio'
2617 [18:25:54] <swickrotation> that's the way
2618 [18:26:26] <joejoejoe> I HAVE SOUND!
2619 [18:26:33] <swickrotation> That's a weird thing though,
I don't have pulseaudio either but have no problems with
firefox
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2621 [18:26:37] <swickrotation> are you using quantum?
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2623 [18:26:47] <somiaj> most things can use pulse or alsa
2624 [18:26:58] <greycat> I think even the current firefox-esr is
already Pulse-only.
2625 [18:26:59] <somiaj> it is only silly software that only
supports pulse
2626 [18:27:02] <joejoejoe> swickrotation: no idea
2627 [18:27:04] <swickrotation> ^^
2628 [18:27:07] <greycat> I wouldn't know; I just use chrome
for youtube.
2629 [18:27:12] <swickrotation> lolol
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2631 [18:27:23] <megaTherion> why use chrome if firefox works
2632 [18:27:24] <somiaj> yea, I use chrome as well, so never
noticed my firefox didn't make sound
2633 [18:27:35] <swickrotation> wait really? I've got an up
to date esr afaik and no problems
2634 [18:27:46] <megaTherion> ditto
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2636 [18:27:54] <greycat> swickrotation: maybe I'm wrong,
then
2637 [18:28:01] <swickrotation> maybe
2638 [18:28:07] <joejoejoe> Ok, cu!
2639 [18:28:08] <swickrotation> spooky stuff either way
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2646 [18:28:56] <swickrotation> I mean I had some problems trying
to update firefox like 6 months ago, so it could be that I just
*think* firefox is up to date
2647 [18:29:21] <swickrotation> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2648 [18:29:49] <greycat> Can't test it here at work; no
speakers or headphones available.
2649 [18:29:55] <somiaj> well firefox esr depends on libasound2
and not pulse
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2651 [18:30:39] <somiaj> the newest firefox in sid also depends on
libasound2
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2653 [18:31:02] <swickrotation> neato
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2655 [18:31:05] <somiaj>
replaced-url
2656 [18:31:07] <judd> Bug
replaced-url
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2659 [18:32:31] <swickrotation> totally unrelated: back when I
used Ubuntu and Unity like, a year ago, I had a semi-translucent
terminal and I'd really like that back
2660 [18:32:53] <swickrotation> Using gnome 3 rn and debian
stretch, anyone have thoughts?
2661 [18:33:00] <somiaj> either use a compositor like compton or a
fake transpency terminal like aterm
2662 [18:33:06] <somiaj> (well one that supports fake
transparency)
2663 [18:33:29] <swickrotation> tight
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2665 [18:36:03] <greycat> So if I'm reading this right,
upstream Firefox ESR removed ALSA support and then Debian patched it
back in?
2666 [18:36:21] <somiaj> it seems upstream still supports building
with alsa, but their binaries don't include it
2667 [18:36:35] <somiaj> so they didn't reomove the support,
just stopped building with it
2668 [18:37:04] <somiaj> (they probably also don't support
it, if in the future that build option were to disappear)
2669 [18:37:10] <somiaj> I mean just be buggy/notwork
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2743 [19:10:54] <limbo_> Can anyone suggest a proxy server with
configurable cache management, and the ability to pre-emptivly
fetch/cache things?
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2773 [19:24:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1599
2774 [19:24:19] <petn-randall> limbo_: proxy for what exactly?
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2785 [19:27:29] <limbo_> web traffic.
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2792 [19:29:00] <petn-randall> limbo_: squid then. If you want one
to pre-emptively fetch things, there's probably none.
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2795 [19:29:58] <greycat> Pre-fetching is usually a browser thing.
2796 [19:30:24] <greycat> The most common question I've ever
seen regarding pre-fetching is "How do I make it STOP this,
it's eating all my pay-by-the-gigabyte bandwidth!"
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2809 [19:34:33] * mnuhmnuh and draining my battery.
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2817 [19:41:31] <m712> hi, when i install a debian package that
contains a service, the systemd service is automatically enabled. i
do not want this to happen, is there a way to disable this automatic
enabling?
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2819 [19:43:19] <d9867eb> hi mates, I have a problem
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2823 [19:44:05] <d9867eb>
replaced-url
2824 [19:44:25] <annadane> !devuan
2825 [19:44:25] <dpkg> Devuan (replaced-url
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2828 [19:45:45] <annadane> you can possibly also try ##networking
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2831 [19:46:46] <d9867eb> ok
2832 [19:46:49] <d9867eb> thanks
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2834 [19:48:22] <somiaj> m712: look at policy-rc.d, all packages
should use invoke-rc.d to start, and you can disable this by setting
policy-rc.d for the service
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2836 [19:48:43] <simNIX> Hello - looking for some reading advice -
I want to collect a lot files to install in tftp server and describe
howto use that to booot of nic - I wonder how I make a apt package
to make it install those files
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2840 [19:50:37] <somiaj> simNIX: why must it be an apt package? I
don't really see your overall goal? Are you wanting to setup
some pxe boot image?
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2847 [19:53:36] <simNIX> intent to make it easy for popele to use
a network booted tftp server with a menu to in stall all i can get
in - so comon linux flavours and move setups and tools
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2851 [19:54:37] <simNIX> *move=more
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2853 [19:55:59] <somiaj> I don't see how an apt package helps
with this, once you make a pxe boot image, you can configure the
boot image you are using however you like. If you want it to be a
live image, maybe look into live-build
2854 [19:56:13] <somiaj> though most people don't use ftp
these days, I find ssh + scp better
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2859 [19:56:40] <simNIX> on topic why apt need you got a point
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2861 [19:57:35] <simNIX> the secure protocols are not available if
you boot diskless the menu
2862 [19:58:22] <simNIX> I use it as a tooldbox always handy for
any computer that can network boot
2863 [19:58:32] *** Quits: bb36e (~bb36e@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2864 [19:58:39] <simNIX> I expect more could have use of it
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2866 [19:59:01] <somiaj> well I don't see why that is the
case, pxe (or network) boot is just a method to boot an image, you
could use ssh instead of tftp, but that is besides the point, just a
suggestion since ftp is fairly insecure.
2867 [19:59:37] <somiaj> anyways, this isn't specifically a
debian support question, but if you are wanting to use debian as
this pxe boot image, maybe a live image is what you want to build,
and debian has tools to build custom live images, look at the
live-build
2868 [20:00:06] <somiaj> and you can put whatever packages, de or
wm, and meus and various other things you want in the live image.
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2875 [20:00:58] <simNIX> thats also an interesting route to take -
contain the toolbox in a live Debian
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2878 [20:01:58] <simNIX> other then get preseed with htttps ive
not yet found in past solutions with secure protocols
2879 [20:02:13] *** Quits: rneco (~rneco@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2880 [20:02:15] <simNIX> makes it a good one to read up on
2881 [20:02:26] <simNIX> thanks for your time responding
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2887 [20:05:08] <simNIX> still courious as to howto to make deb
package but google can help me there
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2903 [20:18:16] <pacha> hey everyone
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2905 [20:19:18] <pacha> I logged in today and sound was not
working for my user, but it works for root (sudo aplay sound-file
works). It is unmuted, and I cant see my main sound card on
pavucontrol
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2909 [20:20:39] <greycat> Do you get an error?
2910 [20:20:40] <Iridos> owncloud-client is packaged for debian,
but the server is not? why?
2911 [20:20:51] <greycat> Or does it sit there playing and you
can't hear it?
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2916 [20:21:26] <pacha> greycat: no errors in my GUI, no idea what
log file should I check. and yes, the music player is "playing
music", but no audio
2917 [20:22:00] <greycat> oh, it's a gui? well hell.
2918 [20:22:07] <greycat> No telling what's happening then.
2919 [20:22:37] <pacha> greycat: when I say GUI I mean window
manager
2920 [20:23:08] <Iridos> uuh…
replaced-url
2921 [20:23:09] <judd> Bug
replaced-url
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2923 [20:23:35] <greycat> pacha: if it's not a command that
you run in a terminal then you don't even KNOW whether there
were errors, unless you can be sure you've found where stderr
is going and look there and see some.
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2926 [20:23:57] <greycat> If you look where you think stderr is
going and DON'T see errors then you don't even know
whether you're looking in the right place.
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2930 [20:24:10] <greycat> Diagnosing a misbehaving GUI is a pain.
2931 [20:24:15] <BCMM> pacha: what distro are you using, and do
you use pulseaudio?
2932 [20:24:23] <pacha> greycat: aplay from terminal without root:
no errors, no audio
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2934 [20:25:10] <pacha> BCMM: Debian testing, and yes I am using
pulseaudio
2935 [20:25:18] <greycat> pacha: but it "hangs" (runs
for non-infinitesimal time) as if it's playing? Then it's
gotta be muted channels or something, right?
2936 [20:25:36] <greycat> I mean, you ruled out actual hardware by
getting sound as root.
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2941 [20:26:09] <pacha> greycat: yes, running with sudo works.
also I added my username to the "audio" group, rebooted
and same problem
2942 [20:26:27] *** Quits: briner (~briner@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2943 [20:26:34] <greycat> Sorry, sounds like you need someone who
knows the internals of pulseaudio.
2944 [20:26:45] <pacha> greycat: thanks for the help anyway
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2947 [20:27:11] <pacha> I think it might have to do with not
enough permissions on a particular device after some upgrade that
messed with my configs, no idea which one might be
2948 [20:27:25] <BCMM> pacha: see if you can eliminate pa from
your experiments with pasuspender
2949 [20:27:59] <BCMM> pacha: if you don't have the right
permission for some dev node, but you're in audio, i reckon
that would be a bug...
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2951 [20:28:40] <greycat> If it were a permissions issue, I would
expect a terminal command to emit an error containing either
"Permission denied" or "Operation not permitted"
2952 [20:28:40] *** Joins: doubledutch (~b@replaced-ip )
2953 [20:29:00] <greycat> If you don't see either of those,
it's probably not permission-based.
2954 [20:29:16] *** doubledutch is now known as Guest62586
2955 [20:29:23] <somiaj> you should ask in #debian-next on
irc.oftc.net, and then look up the timidity bug
2956 [20:29:43] *** Quits: martian67 (~martian67@replaced-ip##) (Quit: ZNC 1.7.0+deb1+b1 - ##replaced-url
2957 [20:29:44] <somiaj> timidity is taking over the sound card
before pulse runs, and cheap sound cards without hardware mixing
can't have two programs grabbing them at the saem time
2958 [20:29:45] <BCMM> pacha: at the risk of stating the obvious,
just because you're using aplay doesn't mean it's not
going through pulse anyway
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2960 [20:30:15] *** Joins: eckomute (~eckomute@replaced-ip )
2961 [20:30:19] <somiaj> or tmididity's service (this bug is
documented in the bts) has grabbed ahold of the sound card and
isn't letting other thigns play with it)
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2963 [20:30:22] *** Joins: martian67 (~martian67@replaced-ip )
2964 [20:30:27] <pacha> BCMM: what should I try? I also used mpv
(video player) as root and it was working.
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2971 [20:32:12] <pacha> BCMM: pasuspender -- command: no audio.
pasuspender -- sudo command: audio works.
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(~laurent.c@host-213-213-250-106.dynamic.voo.be)
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2979 [20:36:20] <pacha> somiaj: oh man thank you. I removed
timidity and the audio is back, thank you so much
2980 [20:36:27] *** Quits: plains (~plains@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2981 [20:36:33] <pacha> I hope that thing isnt important, whatever
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3001 [20:49:19] <Iridos> it's curious that you could play
sound as root, though… if the device is blocked by a process,
it's blocked
3002 [20:49:22] <Iridos> that seems wrong
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3006 [20:51:11] <somiaj> pacha: in the future use #debian-next on
irc.oftc.net, memebers of that channel are more famialr with the
common bugs in testing/unstable
3007 [20:51:32] *** Quits: [DragOn] (~while@replaced-ip ) (Quit: .)
3008 [20:51:39] <somiaj> Iridos: it does, though alsa should have
dmix enabled by default, maybe the users .asoundrc or something is
only enabling dmix for root
3009 [20:52:14] <somiaj> oh wait, root is probabaly running the
tmididty service, so dmix is only enabled for root, since a root
process has grabed the device
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3017 [20:55:00] <Iridos> tmididty?
3018 [20:55:14] <annadane> ,i timidity
3019 [20:55:15] <judd> Package timidity (sound, optional) in
stretch/amd64: Software sound renderer (MIDI sequencer, MOD player).
Version: 2.13.2-40.5; Size: 566.0k; Installed: 1421k; Homepage:
replaced-url
3020 [20:55:23] <Iridos> ah, timidity
3021 [20:55:34] <annadane> somiaj told me about that command, now
i must spam it constantly
3022 [20:55:49] *** Joins: herbmillerjr (~herbmille@replaced-ip )
3023 [20:56:22] * somiaj regrets informing annadane about info
3024 [20:56:26] *** Joins: erasmus (~erasmus@replaced-ip )
3025 [20:56:31] <somiaj> well /s
3026 [20:56:32] <mnuhmnuh> ,i spam
3027 [20:56:33] <judd> No package named 'spam' was found
in stretch/amd64.
3028 [20:57:38] *** Joins: pie3 (~pieee@replaced-ip )
3029 [20:57:44] *** Joins: Peyam (~Peyam@replaced-ip )
3030 [20:58:29] <Peyam> hi. I'm searching for a simple cad
program that uses gtk
3031 [20:58:38] <Peyam> qt libraries take lots of place
3032 [20:59:21] *** Quits: doubledu1ch (~b@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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3035 [21:00:42] *** Joins: hgfd123 (~hgfd123@replaced-ip )
3036 [21:01:09] <mnuhmnuh> ,i cad
3037 [21:01:10] <judd> No package named 'cad' was found
in stretch/amd64.
3038 [21:01:30] <Peyam> mnuhmnuh, librecad is good but it is based
on qt
3039 [21:02:25] *** Quits: dionysus69 (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
3040 [21:02:40] <somiaj> maybe kicad, it sounds like kde cad
3041 [21:02:41] *** Quits: llucenic (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3042 [21:02:53] <somiaj> oh wait, nevermind, wrong cad, that is
for electronics
3043 [21:03:11] <somiaj> I don't see any cad softare based on
qt in debian stretch
3044 [21:03:43] <mnuhmnuh> cad is one of those "doesn't
play well in FLOSS" things. long tail stuff.
3045 [21:06:09] *** Joins: zabow_ (~zabow@replaced-ip )
3046 [21:07:03] <mnuhmnuh> ,i autocad
3047 [21:07:04] <judd> No package named 'autocad' was
found in stretch/amd64.
3048 [21:07:46] <annadane> i'm not sure autocad could even be
packaged for debian, besides being proprietary i think you need a
license
3049 [21:07:51] *** Quits: hgfd123 (~hgfd123@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3050 [21:08:52] <mnuhmnuh> just what i'm saying. that's
one secure bastion.
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3079 [21:21:48] <no_gravity> What is a good way to install a small
linux distro with a gui?
3080 [21:22:00] <no_gravity> Just the Debian net installer and
then install a small desktop?
3081 [21:22:06] <greycat> download Debian netinst+firmware, write
it to a CD, boot the CD, install Standard only.
3082 [21:22:21] <no_gravity> greycat: Ok, and then which desktop?
3083 [21:22:29] <greycat> Then after booting, install whatever
drivers/firmware is needed, xorg, and your favorite WM.
3084 [21:22:37] *** Joins: zamlz (~zamlz@replaced-ip )
3085 [21:22:37] <greycat> Why would you use a desktop?
3086 [21:22:52] *** Quits: mavhq (~quassel@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3087 [21:22:55] <no_gravity> I have no idea. Never used Debian
with a GUI but without a Desktop.
3088 [21:23:01] *** Quits: Meerkat (~meerkat@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
3089 [21:23:01] <no_gravity> What is a small WM?
3090 [21:23:46] *** Quits: doubledu1ch (~b@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
3091 [21:23:58] <greycat> Anything that ends with "wm"
or "box".
3092 [21:24:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1604
3093 [21:24:07] *** Joins: mavhq (~quassel@replaced-ip )
3094 [21:24:12] <greycat> Whatever you normally used before GNOME
and KDE existed.
3095 [21:24:13] *** Joins: doubledu1ch (~b@replaced-ip )
3096 [21:24:37] *** Joins: faheem_ (~faheem@replaced-ip )
3097 [21:24:45] <greycat> Unless you came from the commercial Unix
world and somehow had to use CDE, in which case I pity you.
3098 [21:25:37] <no_gravity> I don't know what I used before
Gnome. As far as I remembered I always used Gnome 2. And still do.
3099 [21:26:05] *** Quits: asterismo_l (~asterismo@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
3100 [21:26:21] <greycat> Well, I use fvwm, but I don't want
to bias you toward or against any particular WM.
3101 [21:26:27] *** Quits: faheem (~faheem@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3102 [21:26:51] *** Joins: baptist (~baptsk@replaced-ip )
3103 [21:26:55] <no_gravity> I just want to build a small VM to
play with.
3104 [21:27:04] <no_gravity> I want it to not take up much space.
3105 [21:27:17] <no_gravity> Something that runs in VirtualBox.
3106 [21:27:42] <greycat> You can get a nice list of them from
"apt-cache showpkg x-window-manager"
3107 [21:27:46] <annadane> i3's fairly minimal, tiling,
keyboard focused
3108 [21:28:02] <greycat> At the end, under "Reverse
Provides:"
3109 [21:28:08] <annadane> though i guess you have to do a bit of
reading to learn how to use it
3110 [21:28:33] <no_gravity> Since Mate uses Marco as its window
manager, maybe I should use that one?
3111 [21:29:05] <greycat> It's a very subjective decision,
much like selecting a text editor.
3112 [21:29:14] <no_gravity> I will try Marco then.
3113 [21:29:17] <greycat> Ultimately you have to try some and see
if you like them.
3114 [21:29:23] *** Joins: Chelsea (~Chelsea@replaced-ip )
3115 [21:29:24] <no_gravity> Well, I know I like Mate.
3116 [21:30:07] <no_gravity> Will 'apt install marco' be
enough to run desktop aps? How do I start it then? Just
'startx'?
3117 [21:30:27] *** Joins: OS-39180 (~OS-39180@replaced-ip )
3118 [21:31:05] *** Quits: doubledu1ch (~b@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
3119 [21:31:06] <greycat> You need to install "xorg" and
your WM of choice.
3120 [21:31:26] <no_gravity> greycat: Isn't marco the WM of
my choice?
3121 [21:31:28] <greycat> It's possible to get it smaller
than that, but that's the basic way.
3122 [21:31:55] <greycat> The point is you cannot JUST install the
WM. You also have to install "xorg", or manually specify
all the server and core-client stuff.
3123 [21:32:14] <no_gravity> So I will do 'apt install xorg
marco'?
3124 [21:32:15] *** Joins: doubledutch (~b@replaced-ip )
3125 [21:32:26] <greycat> sure
3126 [21:32:35] <no_gravity> And then 'startx' to start
it?
3127 [21:32:38] *** doubledutch is now known as Guest73000
3128 [21:32:44] <annadane> you may need xinit for startx
3129 [21:32:50] <annadane> if xorg doesn't auto install it
3130 [21:32:55] *** Joins: xSmurf (~MrSmurf@replaced-ip )
3131 [21:33:00] <no_gravity> Uh oh. Maybe I should just install a
desktop...
3132 [21:33:19] <annadane> xinit is like, kilobytes
3133 [21:33:32] *** Quits: cr1mson_king (~cr1mson_k@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
3134 [21:33:32] <no_gravity> so 'apt install xorg marco
xinit'?
3135 [21:33:40] <annadane> sure
3136 [21:33:42] <no_gravity> Ok
3137 [21:34:00] <no_gravity> And then I can run - say - firefox on
top of it?
3138 [21:34:09] *** Quits: loptr (~loptr@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
3139 [21:34:18] <greycat> yes
3140 [21:34:22] <no_gravity> ok
3141 [21:35:18] *** Joins: colinjmatt (~colinjmat@replaced-ip )
3142 [21:36:20] *** Joins: holmgren (magnus@replaced-ip )
3143 [21:36:24] *** Quits: OS-38594 (~OS-38594@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3144 [21:36:28] *** Quits: holmgren (magnus@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3145 [21:36:35] <greycat> xorg explicitly Depends: xinit, so you
don't have to specify that manually
3146 [21:36:41] <no_gravity> ok
3147 [21:36:47] <no_gravity> so 'apt install xorg marco'
i guess
3148 [21:37:09] <greycat> You'll figure it out.
3149 [21:37:13] <greycat> It's not that hard.
3150 [21:37:21] *** Quits: thescientist (~thescient@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
3151 [21:37:42] <no_gravity> The Debian installer is running...
3152 [21:37:56] <no_gravity> I wonder how often I did that in my
life.
3153 [21:38:11] <no_gravity> Debian has been my daily driver since
version 1 or 2 as far as I remember.
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3158 [21:42:09] *** Quits: loader (~loader@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3159 [21:42:51] <annadane> i'm probably up to 60+ at this
point
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3168 [21:48:21] <no_gravity> Does anybody know how to copy a file
into a virtualbox guest?
3169 [21:48:51] <greycat> Oh, this is a vm thingy... you may need
those guest extensions, um... (no that has nothing to do with
copying a file into it)
3170 [21:49:00] *** Quits: Guest73000 (~b@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3171 [21:49:08] *** Joins: doubledu1ch (~b@replaced-ip )
3172 [21:49:57] <greycat> !vbox guest
3173 [21:49:58] <dpkg> For Debian VMs (guests) under VirtualBox,
install the virtualbox-guest-utils package (from
<stretch-backports>) inside the guest to provide Guest
Additions; Linux kernel modules are built automatically by
<dkms>. For MS Windows guests, install the
virtualbox-guest-additions-iso package on the host (see <non-free
sources>) and see
replaced-url
3174 [21:50:08] *** Quits: Nekojimi (~jimj316@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3175 [21:50:13] <no_gravity> greycat: Why do I need guest
extensions?
3176 [21:50:44] <no_gravity> Maybe I can ssh into it and copy the
file via scp?
3177 [21:50:51] *** Joins: raf_ (~raf_@replaced-ip )
3178 [21:51:22] <greycat> Maybe? I have no idea.
3179 [21:52:36] <no_gravity> Download of xorg + marco is 500 MB
...
3180 [21:53:09] <greycat> How much for just xorg?
3181 [21:53:18] *** Quits: datasmurf (~datasmurf@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
3182 [21:54:47] <no_gravity> greycat: Dunno. I did 'apt
install xorg marco'
3183 [21:55:20] *** Quits: OS-36254 (~OS-36254@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
3184 [21:55:48] <farruinn> no_gravity: --no-install-recommends can
be helpful switch for apt-get when doing a minimal install
3185 [21:56:03] <no_gravity> farruinn: Ah. Well, now it's
already running.
3186 [21:56:08] *** Quits: briner (~briner@replaced-ip ) (Quit: briner)
3187 [21:56:08] *** Quits: doubledu1ch (~b@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
3188 [21:56:17] <farruinn> just examine the list of excluded
packages to determine if maybe you need them.
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3192 [21:56:26] <no_gravity> Well, too late.
3193 [21:56:54] <no_gravity> It's installing weird stuff like
libstreamer-bad :)
3194 [21:56:58] <greycat> I'm thinking "marco" may
be pulling in a substantial chunk of GNOME or whatever it's
supposed to be part of.
3195 [21:56:59] <no_gravity> I doubt I need that.
3196 [21:57:44] <no_gravity> I sometimes think we are moving
towards a future where every package is somehow connected to every
other package.
3197 [21:57:57] <no_gravity> So as soon as you install *anything*
you install *everything*.
3198 [21:57:57] *** Quits: matthelmke (~matthelmk@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Probably the weekend or rebooting to install updates...)
3199 [21:57:59] <greycat> It depends on
"mate-desktop-common" which is probably what's doing
it.
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3202 [21:58:12] <greycat> or maybe not.
3203 [21:58:18] <annadane> debian is a bit like that yeah
3204 [21:58:23] <annadane> fine for those who can afford the space
3205 [21:58:31] <annadane> for those who can't or don't
want to, --no-install-recommends
3206 [21:58:54] <no_gravity> Recently I installed
'webpack' to have asset routing in a php project. And it
pulled in like 400MB of javascript packages :/
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3210 [21:59:11] <no_gravity> That was the day I decided I will
write my own asset router.
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3218 [22:01:01] <annadane> i've sometimes wondered whether i
should always --no-install-recommends on everything but it's
probably too much hassle
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3221 [22:01:22] <no_gravity> It finished intalling xorg+marco :)
3222 [22:01:26] <annadane> in future i may do that, idk
3223 [22:01:44] <greycat> no_gravity: if startx doesn't work,
then maybe look into that vbox guest stuff.
3224 [22:01:46] <no_gravity> startx gives me a black screen with a
mouse pointer :)
3225 [22:01:59] <no_gravity> Now how do I start something from
that black screen?
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3230 [22:03:20] <greycat> I have no idea how marco works.
It's your WM. Try clicking and holding each of the 3 mouse
buttons.
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3234 [22:03:57] <no_gravity> I tried it. Nothing happens.
3235 [22:04:03] <somiaj> annadane: you can configure apt to not
install recommends by default. This is not suggested, as most users
will need recommended packages.
3236 [22:04:30] <somiaj> annadane: in general recommend = you most
likely need, suggested = things that are related, but you may or may
not need.
3237 [22:04:41] <annadane> true.
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3240 [22:05:03] <annadane> --always-install-suggests :P
3241 [22:05:06] <somiaj> (of course there is no clear line, and
what some people think should be suggested others reocommended and
visa versa)
3242 [22:05:39] <somiaj> well configure apt in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d
(though maybe this is a preference, so preferences.d, I forget)
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3280 [22:27:22] <no_gravity> Strange, when I run startx as root,
it works. But then I do it as a normal user, I end up in a black
screen with a little white terminal.
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3284 [22:28:34] <abrotman> Did you set your WM correctly for your
usre?
3285 [22:28:52] *** Joins: K0rt14k (~Mutter@replaced-ip )
3286 [22:29:07] <no_gravity> abrotman: I did not set anything.
Just did 'apt install mate-desktop-environment-core'.
3287 [22:29:13] *** Joins: holmgren (magnus@replaced-ip )
3288 [22:29:17] <abrotman> and you're not using a DM?
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3290 [22:29:28] <no_gravity> abrotman: I don't even know what
that is.
3291 [22:29:33] <abrotman> like GDM3
3292 [22:29:34] *** Quits: K0rt14k (~Mutter@replaced-ip##) (Quit: Mutter: ##replaced-url
3293 [22:29:36] <abrotman> dpkg: dm
3294 [22:29:37] <dpkg> DM means Display Manager, the app that
brings up a graphical login screen and starts your login session.
<lightdm>, <gdm3>, <xdm>, <kdm>,
<wdm>, pdm, login.app and <slim> are all examples of
display managers. Ask me about <nodm> if you want to disable
the DM. Or Debian Maintainer:
replaced-url
3295 [22:29:59] <no_gravity> abrotman: It's a fresh debian
install + 'apt install mate-desktop-environment-core'.
3296 [22:30:16] <abrotman> did you install the 'xorg'
package? Do you want a GUI login?
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3299 [22:31:04] <no_gravity> abrotman: Yes, at first I did
'apt install xorg marco' but then after startx all I got
was a black screen with a mouse pointer. So I did 'apt install
mate-desktop-environment-core'.
3300 [22:31:10] <no_gravity> abrotman: That's all I did.
3301 [22:31:10] <greycat> He installed xorg and "marco"
which is apparently a part of mate or gnome or somnething.
3302 [22:31:26] <abrotman> no_gravity: Do you want a GUI login? or
would you rather be using startx?
3303 [22:31:33] <greycat> He has not installed the vbox guest
stuff yet AFAIK.
3304 [22:31:43] <no_gravity> abrotman: It would be nice if the
machine automatically starts x.
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3306 [22:32:03] <no_gravity> greycat: True.
3307 [22:32:43] <abrotman> no_gravity: then I'd suggest a DM
from the list above ... slim and lightdm both work well enough. GDM3
is nice, but probably pulls in a lot of Gnome3 stuff
3308 [22:33:38] <no_gravity> abrotman: Now I am confused. I only
want to startx on startup
3309 [22:33:52] <abrotman> huh?
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3312 [22:34:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1597
3313 [22:34:10] <abrotman> install slim, see if it works .. if you
don't like it, you can remove it
3314 [22:34:17] <no_gravity> abrotman: 'like it'?
3315 [22:34:29] <abrotman> like 'slim'
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3317 [22:34:34] <no_gravity> abrotman: What is there to like about
a script that just does 'startx'?
3318 [22:34:42] <greycat> It's not a script.
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3320 [22:34:44] <abrotman> you said you wanted X to start
automatically ...
3321 [22:34:46] <greycat> It doesn't run startx.
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3323 [22:35:57] *** Joins: voidSurfr (~voidSurfr@replaced-ip )
3324 [22:36:14] <no_gravity> couldnt it just put it in bashrc or
something?
3325 [22:36:57] *** Quits: djj (djj@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
3326 [22:36:58] <greycat> .bashrc would be the wrong place for it.
.profile MIGHT work but only if you wrap it in a check that you are
logged in on tty1 or something.
3327 [22:37:06] *** Quits: c-c (csmr@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3328 [22:37:18] <no_gravity> Yeah, would need a step to not do it
on every fricking launch of a terminal.
3329 [22:37:36] <abrotman> he probably wants
3330 [22:37:42] <abrotman> dpkg: .xsession
3331 [22:37:42] <dpkg> Debian uses ~/.xsession for startx(1) as
well as *most* Display Manager logins. See
replaced-url
3332 [22:37:43] <no_gravity> (I said frickin instead of fucking
because of some guy complaining about fucking above)
3333 [22:37:43] <greycat> In any case, get startx WORKING before
you automate it.
3334 [22:38:13] <abrotman> if you're going to launch straight
into X, why not use a DM?
3335 [22:38:17] <no_gravity> greycat: Maybe I will just run it as
root :) A single user machine has its upsides :)
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3338 [22:38:29] <no_gravity> abrotman: I have no idea what a DM
is.
3339 [22:38:39] *** Joins: djj (djj@replaced-ip )
3340 [22:38:39] <greycat> Graphical login screen.
3341 [22:38:47] *** c-c is now known as Guest49076
3342 [22:38:51] <no_gravity> I don't want a fuc*ing login
screen.
3343 [22:39:18] <no_gravity> Maybe I should hire somebody to type
'startx' everytime I switch my machine on.
3344 [22:39:44] <somiaj> !nodm
3345 [22:39:44] <dpkg> In systemd, "systemctl set-default
multi-user.target", or remove the DM package(s) with
"aptitude remove gdm3 kdm lightdm lxdm nodm sddm slim wdm
xdm". "echo false
>/etc/X11/default-display-manager" will also disable the DM,
or just hit ctrl-alt-fN to get to a console. nodm is the name of a
minimal/automatic display manager (replaced-url
3346 [22:39:45] <greycat> echo 'if test "$(tty)" =
/dev/tty1; then startx; fi' >> ~/.profile
3347 [22:39:49] <somiaj> though most suggest you don't use
such a thing
3348 [22:39:50] <greycat> There, be happy.
3349 [22:39:58] <no_gravity> greycat: Awesome
3350 [22:40:11] <somiaj> nodm will automatically log you in and
startx
3351 [22:40:14] <abrotman> insanity ...
3352 [22:40:31] <no_gravity> somiaj: nodm sounds good. I have used
that before on another machine!
3353 [22:41:07] <greycat> Does your X session actually WORK yet?
3354 [22:41:19] <no_gravity> greycat: When I startx as root yes.
3355 [22:41:24] <greycat> So "no".
3356 [22:41:50] <somiaj> so automatically running xorg as root,
sounds like a recipie for distater
3357 [22:41:52] *** Quits: jubo2 (~juboxi@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
3358 [22:42:05] <no_gravity> somiaj: What type of desaster?
3359 [22:42:37] <somiaj> any application can run any code on any
part of your machine if running xorg as root
3360 [22:42:50] <greycat> Distater, the Mr. Potato Head version of
replaced-url
3361 [22:42:52] <somiaj> in general this is considered a bad idea
for obvious reasons.
3362 [22:42:58] <no_gravity> somiaj: There must be a relevant xkcd
about that...
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3365 [22:43:15] <no_gravity> somiaj: Yes:
replaced-url
3366 [22:43:58] <no_gravity> somiaj: If an application I run is
evil, it's game over anyhow.
3367 [22:44:23] <no_gravity> Also this is just a test-VM for
experimental reasons.
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3373 [22:45:59] <no_gravity> Well, enought tinkering for today.
3374 [22:46:03] <no_gravity> Thanks everybody!
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3398 [23:00:37] <simbalion> Hi, I'm trying to connect a JBL
Flip 4 bluetooth speaker which supports a2dp, and I followed the
guide on the debian wiki, but the device doesn't show up in
pavucontrol when connected. Can anyone help?
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3413 [23:12:32] <zifxify> sudo dmesg | grep drm -> [drm]
Reducing the compressed framebuffer size. This may lead to less
power savings than a non-reduced-size. Try to increase stolen memory
size if available in BIOS. should I just disable framebuffer ?
3414 [23:12:50] <zifxify> a lot of times this message
3415 [23:13:05] <zifxify> broadwell cpu
3416 [23:13:57] <zifxify> bad cpu lot microcode updates :(
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3450 [23:34:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1578
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3452 [23:37:46] *** Joins: misirk85 (~misirk85@replaced-ip )
3453 [23:38:14] <misirk85> hejka
3454 [23:38:22] <misirk85> hello*
3455 [23:38:23] <misirk85> :)
3456 [23:38:23] *** Joins: van_daar (~nltl@replaced-ip )
3457 [23:38:34] *** Joins: mel00010 (~mel00010@replaced-ip )
3458 [23:38:39] <annadane> hi misirk85
3459 [23:38:55] *** Joins: rc (2d25a40e@replaced-ip )
3460 [23:39:19] *** rc is now known as Guest71506
3461 [23:39:27] <misirk85> i have question about bootable stick
3462 [23:39:35] *** Parts: van_daar (~nltl@replaced-ip ) ()
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3464 [23:39:50] *** erasmus is now known as rassie
3465 [23:39:51] <misirk85> how i can create bootable usb stick
with win7 on linux debian 9
3466 [23:39:56] *** Guest71506 is now known as RCracer
3467 [23:40:04] *** rassie is now known as Erasmus
3468 [23:40:09] <misirk85> i check few sol on :
3469 [23:40:10] <misirk85>
replaced-url
3470 [23:40:11] <misirk85> and
3471 [23:40:25] <misirk85> other webpage
3472 [23:40:28] <annadane> i'm not sure it's even
possible?
3473 [23:40:37] <misirk85> but imo the best is dd
3474 [23:40:54] *** Quits: thunderrd (~thunderrd@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3475 [23:40:57] <RCracer> hello Im new to debian. Is sid a good
idea for my first install?
3476 [23:40:57] <annadane> but idk someone smarter than i am
likely knows
3477 [23:40:58] <misirk85> but if i use dd bootable stick isnt
work
3478 [23:40:58] <misirk85> ;/
3479 [23:41:05] <annadane> RCracer, not really, no
3480 [23:41:37] <annadane> sid's usable if you know what
you're doing but if you're totally new i'd go with
stable
3481 [23:41:48] <misirk85> RCracer, my first is stable with
nonfree :)
3482 [23:42:38] <RCracer> ok thanks guys
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3487 [23:45:01] *** Joins: doubledu1ch (~b@replaced-ip )
3488 [23:45:49] <RCracer> annadane misirk85 so is it a terrible
idea? or might it be funny to try?
3489 [23:46:11] *** Joins: balletjebal (~balletjeb@replaced-ip )
3490 [23:46:11] <misirk85> i'll try to make bootable stick
using dd
3491 [23:46:34] <annadane> RCracer, maybe try it in a virtual
machine first... it really depends on your needs
3492 [23:46:37] <annadane>
replaced-url
3493 [23:47:04] <annadane> stable is easier to maintain,
definitely easier for someone new
3494 [23:47:08] <annadane> i still do recommend stable
3495 [23:47:41] *** Quits: farruinn (~nathan@replaced-ip ) (Quit: leaving)
3496 [23:48:16] <annadane> RCracer, but it's your computer,
do with it what you want, just be aware sid may be buggy and you
should keep backups of your files
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3498 [23:49:21] *** Joins: Peyam (~Peyam@replaced-ip )
3499 [23:49:33] <Peyam> what is the current version of libreCad?
3500 [23:50:32] <annadane> in stable or generally?
3501 [23:50:38] <annadane> ,v librecad
3502 [23:50:40] <judd> Package: librecad on amd64 -- wheezy:
1.0.2+nolibs-1; jessie: 2.0.4-1; stretch: 2.1.2-1+b1; buster:
2.1.3-1; sid: 2.1.3-1
3503 [23:51:25] <Ouroboros> even testing is guaranteed to break
all your stuff at some point, only use testing or unstable if your
main goal is... testing stuff
3504 [23:51:59] <annadane> well, not necessarily. i use it for my
desktop but i take responsibility for possible breakage
3505 [23:52:02] <Ouroboros> or, i suppose, if you absolutely need
some feature, but backports are generally better for that
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3507 [23:52:14] <annadane> but for someone brand new i'd not
recommend it
3508 [23:53:32] <annadane> RCracer, but yes, there are
stable-backports for some packages you might want newer versions
of... the nice thing with stable is it just works
3509 [23:53:35] <Ouroboros> the only annoying thing with stable is
when you find out about some brand newly released thing, and, well,
then you have to wait 2 years
3510 [23:54:02] <annadane> but sure, i run sid because i do want
newer stuff
3511 [23:54:47] <RCracer> annadane ok, I was just reading some
things that made it seem ok to veer from stable. Sid might just be
aggravating for me though
3512 [23:54:51] *** Joins: chalcedny (~chalcedon@replaced-ip )
3513 [23:55:03] <Ouroboros> e.g. i would not mind luks2 support
right now (or, if i had learned about it *before* i installed)
3514 [23:55:46] <annadane> the only thing is, debian really only
supports upgrades going one direction, stable -> testing ->
sid, not the other way around
3515 [23:55:58] <annadane> if you install sid and want to
downgrade to stable, it's not supported
3516 [23:57:15] <jim> not at all... you won't be able to do
it
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3518 [23:57:32] *** Quits: chalcedony (~chalcedon@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3519 [23:57:50] <coruja> it may be possible under certain
circumstances
3520 [23:57:50] *** Quits: rhodesd (~derek@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3521 [23:58:06] <Ouroboros> i don't even trust
stable->stable upgrade
3522 [23:58:08] *** Quits: _0bitcount (~Big_Byte@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3523 [23:58:16] <Ouroboros> i barely trust stable updates :P
3524 [23:58:27] *** Joins: _0bitcount (~Big_Byte@replaced-ip )
3525 [23:58:38] <jim> I'm helping someone do a debian
install, and we're seting the type code to EF00... how do you
do that in the installer?
3526 [23:58:47] *** Joins: rhodesd (~derek@replaced-ip )
3527 [23:58:54] <Ouroboros> type code?
3528 [23:59:02] <jim> partition type
3529 [23:59:09] *** Quits: frju365[IRC] (~frju365@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
3530 [23:59:25] <Ouroboros> how would you do it normally?
3531 [23:59:39] *** Quits: nunatak (~nunatak@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
3532 [23:59:39] <Ouroboros> you can probably do the same from the
installer shell
3533 [23:59:39] <RCracer> can I use sid packages in stable?
3534 [23:59:44] <jim> like from fdisk, t for type
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