Realtime Nick Name Ticker of #debian at freenode (ICQ IRC service)

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10[00:15:40] <jak2000> hi all
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12[00:17:12] <jak2000> why: this.selected = (this.text == $myProductor.text()); is false when values: this.text="ISKL-KLASSEN ISIDRO" and $myProductor.text()="ISKL-KLASSEN ISIDRO" thanks
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20[00:20:15] <mirak> hi
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23[00:21:03] <mirak> is there a way to manually convert a linux install to uefi by simply editing files in the uefi partition ?
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59[00:35:49] <MaBunny> hello guys
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85[00:50:43] <un214> I'm getting an error on VirtualBox 5.1 where the kernel module doesn't match the installed version
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99[00:59:43] <jaggz> maybe we can make all input areas in X11 be vimified
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108[01:06:04] <ryouma> jaggz: my guess is that's the toolkits? i know you have to futz with gtk, qt, etc. just to get emacs bindings or even double click or background color.
109[01:06:27] <ryouma> a non-hyperactive double click time*
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111[01:07:42] <ryouma> it's annoying
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118[01:13:07] <jaggz> heh
119[01:13:42] <hanasaki> how do you get systemd-networkd to set the nameserver and domain search entries in /etc/resolve.conf ?
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147[01:30:44] <doebi> how can i suppress configuration options when installing packages via apt-get in a script? wireshark for example gets my script get stuck.
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168[01:39:09] <hfinn> Hello. Was following this guide to installing GNS3: replaced-url
169[01:39:53] <hfinn> If someone could point me in the right direction, I'd be much obliged :)
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171[01:43:55] <doebi> hfinn: well, those are the exact package names
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186[01:49:29] <Lionyx> does anybody know a way of integrate calcurses and gcalendar?
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189[01:52:03] <doebi> Lionyx: calcurse supports iCal imports and exports. Any application supporting these formats can be synchronized by using a simple script.
190[01:52:21] <doebi> replaced-url
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197[01:53:48] <polyzen> replaced-url
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202[01:55:43] <polyzen> Lionyx, replaced-url
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205[01:57:18] <polyzen> replaced-url
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213[02:00:37] <orb> so, nic firmware apparently isn't a requirement, even though it complains?
214[02:01:29] <Lionyx> tks doebi polyzen
215[02:01:54] <polyzen> no problem
216[02:02:32] <Sander^home> Is the tcp session id bug fixed with a workaround now?
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228[02:09:22] <Sander^home> I guess its just to set the ack limit to some high value.
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285[02:36:12] <Sander^home> Yeah, looks like its fixed some weeks ago:)
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289[02:37:48] <Hi||ary> how can I get the latest-and-greatest flashrom?
290[02:39:00] <Hi||ary> package. I have 0.9.7-r1782 in jessie. is there anything newer ? I checked the repo backports main, but nothing
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319[02:57:40] <mmcdermott> i want to setup a box that will act as a wireless repeater. i want it to work over(in the input sense) wire and wireless. wired will be slow but more reliable, wireless should be preferred when it works
320[02:57:47] <mmcdermott> im not sure what to look into to go about this
321[02:58:04] <mmcdermott> i think i need something more advanced than just a bridge and i doubt i can just iptables this
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325[02:59:30] <Xin> more complicated than a bridge?
326[02:59:39] <Xin> what does that mean
327[02:59:49] <Xin> wired will be slow but more reliable??
328[02:59:53] <Xin> what are you talkin willis
329[02:59:57] <Xin> wireless is preferable haha
330[02:59:58] <jinppk> Hi all, how can i view the log of what debian (jessie) prints on the screen when its starting up? specifically the colour output where each line starts with [ OK ] or [ ERROR ]?
331[03:00:05] <Xin> stop smoking the devils cabbage
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333[03:00:27] <Xin> jinppk; dmesg
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335[03:01:49] <jinppk> Xin ta
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356[03:25:05] <ryouma> there is also the bootlogd package
357[03:26:37] <Sander^home> Xin: You should watch the silicon valley tv series on youtube:)
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360[03:28:31] <ryouma> what does it mean when logs have null characters in them? various logs.
361[03:29:07] <Sander^home> pretty funny when they pull the network cable through a wall
362[03:29:17] <Sander^home> into the garage
363[03:31:15] <Xin> Sander^home; I've watched the first season
364[03:31:18] <Xin> pretty good!
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368[03:32:05] <tubaman> anybody had a great experience with NVidia Optimus? If so how did you configure your Debian install?
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416[04:13:02] <Polyphony> After running some much needed updates, xbacklight returns "No outputs have backlight property" now, instead of actually changing the backlight. Has anyone else had this issue?
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418[04:14:41] <Polyphony> I searched around and could only find hacky work-arounds like using xrandr to set the brightness in software. Also, /sys/class/backlight/intel_backlight/brightness exists and can be manually changed
419[04:15:33] <ryouma> Polyphony: try ddccontrol
420[04:15:48] <ryouma> ddccontrol -p -r 0x10 -w ${1:-0} >/dev/null 2>&1
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422[04:16:38] <ryouma> strangely, my sys/class/backlight is empty
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424[04:18:12] <hfinn> doebi, thank you. It worked
425[04:18:33] <Polyphony> I'll check it out, but I should add I'm running debian testing on a Lenovo Thinkpad (T-450s)
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429[04:22:03] <Polyphony> ryouma: Thanks for the suggestion, but it turns out I don't have a monitor supporting DDC/CI
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431[04:23:27] <ryouma> Polyphony: can you write to the backlight instead of relying on xbacklight?
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433[04:24:18] <Polyphony> yeah, I can, and it's possible to just write a script to do that manually
434[04:25:26] <Polyphony> but I wonder what changed
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471[04:57:38] -N1CK53RV- I created a new channel, ##CuntPorn
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473[04:58:34] <N1CK53RV> nprs: check out ##cuntporn
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503[05:15:20] <Xin> !ops
504[05:15:20] <dpkg> Please invoke 'dpkg: ops $problem' to call the operators to deal with a specific problem. Misuse of this will lead to a ban. Operators can also be contacted in the #debian-ops channel.
505[05:15:28] <Xin> !ops N1CK53RV
506[05:15:28] <dpkg> Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, abrotman, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen, SynrG, jm_, somiaj, jelly: xin complains about: N1CK53RV
507[05:15:31] *** Quits: aaro (~aaro@replaced-ip) (Quit: aaro)
508[05:15:32] <N1CK53RV> !ops Xin abuse of !ops
509[05:15:33] <dpkg> Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, abrotman, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen, SynrG, jm_, somiaj, jelly: n1ck53rv complains about: Xin abuse of !ops
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537[05:34:28] *** somiaj sets mode: +b *!*@185.55.217.13
538[05:34:29] *** N1CK53RV was kicked by somiaj (you should know better)
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542[05:35:32] <hanasaki> using systemd-networkd, the dhcpserver sends domain name however the client is not picking it up. so host fqdn looks up fine. just hostname does not have the domain name added for resolution
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544[05:40:55] <Jaga-Jaga> where can i get an english worldlist for a dictonary attack ?
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600[06:29:07] <mi11k1_> I followed the instructions from the debootstrap man page, so what does this do exactly? I would like to make a custom iso. replaced-url
601[06:29:30] <mi11k1_> Sorry not instructions but an example
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763[08:28:39] <jim> I'm gonna try building rust, cargo, libs etc... here's where I'm stuck: I'm running jessie but rust is in sid or stretch, and right now apt-get build-dep doesn't see the build deps for rustc
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766[08:29:30] <themill> Do you have a deb-src line for sid?
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776[08:35:43] <rommel092079> good day I have been following and testing instructions from google setting up mail server with postfix,dovecot and roundcube on debian 8.5 but there are broken files. Anybody knows a site link for step by step setup of mail server ?
777[08:36:32] <Humanoid> Package X has a dependency for Y (>= 6:11~beta1), but I'm trying to install Y version 6:11.6-1~deb8u1, but apt-get says that X has to be removed. Shouldn't 6:11.6-1~deb8u1 >= 6:11~beta1 be satisfied?
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779[08:39:50] <themill> Humanoid: do you have packages installed from deb-multimedia.org?
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782[08:39:56] <Humanoid> I decided to do "apt-get download Y" followed by "dpkg -i Y...deb" and it worked fine.
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784[08:40:05] <Humanoid> themill: Yes, I'm trying to get them all removed.
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788[08:40:44] <themill> !dmm remove
789[08:40:45] <dpkg> If you want to remove the packages from deb-multimedia.org and reinstall the packages from Debian repositories, one could do this: dpkg --remove --force-depends $(aptitude search '?narrow(?version(CURRENT),?origin(Unofficial Multimedia Packages))' --disable-columns -F%p); remove the dmm repository from sources.list; apt-get update; apt-get install -f; install the still missing packages which were removed in the former process ...
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791[08:41:11] <themill> (that would only work if you still have dmm in your sources.list for the first step, it's also rather brutal)
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796[08:42:33] <Humanoid> Yeah, that's a scary command. I rather do it manually, step by step. dpkg -l | grep dmo, shows that I only have 29 packages left, and they're all libxxx packages.
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830[08:56:38] <rommel092079> anybody ?
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877[09:23:55] <Strykar> I'm trying to install a single package from unstable, I added "deb replaced-url
878[09:24:13] <NinjaPanda> d
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881[09:25:00] <babilen> Strykar: Don't do that please
882[09:25:02] <babilen> dpkg: ssb
883[09:25:02] <dpkg> First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) aptitude update; aptitude install build-essential; aptitude build-dep packagename; apt-get -b source packagename; 4) install the resultant debs. To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>.
884[09:25:19] <babilen> judd: checkbackport strongswan
885[09:25:20] <judd> Backporting package strongswan in sid→jessie/amd64: all build-dependencies satisfied using jessie.
886[09:25:31] <babilen> judd: v strongswan
887[09:25:32] <judd> Package: strongswan on amd64 -- squeeze: 4.4.1-5.6; squeeze-security: 4.4.1-5.6; squeeze-security-lts: 4.4.1-5.8; squeeze-backports: 4.5.2-1.5+deb7u3~bpo60+1; wheezy-security: 4.5.2-1.5+deb7u8; wheezy: 4.5.2-1.5+deb7u8; wheezy-backports: 5.2.1-6+deb8u2~bpo70+1; jessie-security: 5.2.1-6+deb8u2; jessie: 5.2.1-6+deb8u2; sid: 5.4.0-3; sid: 5.5.0-1; stretch: 5.5.0-1
888[09:25:46] <Strykar> sid: 5.5.0-1 would do nicely
889[09:26:08] <Strykar> babilen, I look at replaced-url
890[09:26:20] <Strykar> and backports doesnt have the version I need
891[09:26:38] <Strykar> judd, deb-src sid
892[09:26:46] <babilen> Whoever wrote that provided a horrible disservice to the society as mixing stable with testing or unstable will break Debian
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894[09:27:09] <babilen> Strykar: Yes, you would create your own backport because an official one isn't available
895[09:27:22] <babilen> replaced-url
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898[09:27:46] <Strykar> judd doesnt wanna tell me the deb-src line for sid
899[09:28:06] <judd> that's because I'm not an infobot
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905[09:29:54] <Strykar> "deb-src replaced-url
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909[09:31:14] <babilen> Strykar: fwiw, that articule discusses how to install packages from unstable when you are running testing
910[09:31:22] <babilen> Yeah, that looks good
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912[09:31:55] <babilen> (assuming you use ftp.us.debian.org for the others in your sources.list)
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915[09:34:17] <Strykar> babilen, 1. shouldnt the sources be the same irrespective of mirror? 2. will this build the related packages like strongswan-starter etc?
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921[09:36:58] <Strykar> or do I have to apt-get build-dep strongswan strongswan-starter and so on?
922[09:37:38] <jim> running jessie, want to build rustc. how to get build depends?
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924[09:38:19] <jim> , source rustc
925[09:38:21] <judd> Sorry, there is no record of a source package for the binary package 'rustc' in jessie/amd64.
926[09:38:32] <jim> , source rustc sid
927[09:38:33] <judd> Package rustc in sid -- source: rustc
928[09:39:21] <babilen> Strykar: Mirrors might sync at slightly different times .. I'd stick to a single one
929[09:39:43] <babilen> jim: themill asked you a question earlier that you didn't answer .. you might want to do that
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932[09:40:30] <jim> oh sorry themill, I went afk
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935[09:43:19] <Strykar> babilen, that failed to build from source, trying with the same mirrors I used instead of the us ftp now - replaced-url
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937[09:43:46] <jim> babilen, you mean "do I have a source line for sid"? checking, did I turn it on in sources.list.m4...
938[09:43:56] <Strykar> and do I need to name all the related packages like strongswan-starter or will it build it those by just specifying strongswan alone?
939[09:44:47] <Strykar> or is that what build dep does?
940[09:45:51] <jim> yes, it is and was turned on
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944[09:49:24] <jim> babilen, I did lastlog themill, I found a question there that could have been for me (do I have sid deb-src line), but didn't find anything addressed to me
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949[09:52:16] <jim> yeah, he asked the question right after I asked mine
950[09:53:07] <jim> so, yes, I did then and do now have actually 3 separate source lines (each for main, contrib, non-free)
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952[09:54:20] <jim> I grabbed the sources for rustc and cargo
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959[09:58:00] <Strykar> babilen, it appears to almost finish building, passes a bunch of tests and then fails at replaced-url
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969[10:04:15] <hiya> I am back to Debian :D
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987[10:17:27] <jim> ok, I'm stuck again: rustc's build depends includes rustc
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989[10:19:21] <Strykar> ok, commenting out "override_dh_strip:" and "dh_strip --ddeb-migration='strongswan-dbg (<< 5.3.5-2~)'" in strongswan-5.5.0/debian/rules fixes it and it creates all the debs required. any idea what dh_strip --ddeb-migration= does?
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993[10:21:05] <Strykar> in the dir the .deb are created can I now simply do "apt-get install *.deb" ?
994[10:21:40] <jim> do you want to install all the .debs there?
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997[10:22:35] <Strykar> was just going thru them, all except strongswan-ikev1_5.5.0-1_all.deb. I'm not sure if the order of installing them matters
998[10:22:36] <jim> or are there 1 or 2 you don't want to install among them?
999[10:23:12] <jim> you could unpack them all then dpkg --configure --pending
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1003[10:23:59] <jim> why don't you see if (before doing that) dpkg --configure --pending wants to do anything
1004[10:24:53] <Strykar> so just run dpkg --configure --pending in the dir the debs are first?
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1006[10:25:18] <jim> in any dir (so that one's fine)
1007[10:25:42] <Strykar> it runs and exits without printing anything
1008[10:26:02] <jim> that way you make sure any straggler from say "last week" is taken care of
1009[10:26:08] <jim> ok, good,,,
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1011[10:26:19] <Strykar> ah ok, this box isn't a week old yet :)
1012[10:27:16] <jim> -probably- it will work to just dpkg -i them (you know about the unpack phase and the configure phase of a package install?)
1013[10:27:45] <Strykar> I don't. I thought a deb is a ready to install binary package?
1014[10:27:58] <jim> it is
1015[10:28:19] <jim> when you do dpkg -i, it does both phases
1016[10:28:31] <jim> first it unpacks then it configures
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1018[10:29:23] <jim> you can probably dpkg -i them
1019[10:29:33] <Strykar> I see, ok. wouldnt it be better if I go 1 dir up and do "dpkg -R -i /strongswan/*.deb" assuming only the debs I want are in there
1020[10:30:10] <jim> what's -R on dpkg?
1021[10:30:32] <Strykar> recursive, needs to point to a dir. I'll just do as you said in the dir the debs are
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1023[10:31:08] <jim> I didn't know dpkg had that
1024[10:31:32] <jim> but anyway, you built packages, right?
1025[10:31:41] <Strykar> I was looking the man page to see what -i does
1026[10:31:43] <Strykar> yep
1027[10:32:07] <jim> cd to the dir where the packages are
1028[10:32:46] <jim> and then dpkg -i (all of them) (*.deb)
1029[10:33:11] <jim> quite probably, you'll have no trouble
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1032[10:34:03] <jim> I think I had to unpack all of them first like once
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1034[10:34:19] <jim> (in a -long- time)_
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1036[10:34:42] <Strykar> sweet! Starting strongSwan 5.5.0 IPsec [starter]
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1038[10:34:50] <Strykar> tyvm babilen and jim
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1040[10:35:15] <Strykar> it even asked me if I wanted to keep the my old configs and presented diffs. perfect
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1050[10:40:03] <benjr> ive found a package i want by browsing packages.debian.org/ but when i try to apt-get install it by the name given on that website it doesnt work, what am i missing?
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1054[10:41:00] <amsharma> is there a specific channel related to apt get queries?
1055[10:41:28] <babilen> Strykar: You want to run dh_strip, but it appears as if the version you are using doesn't support ddeb-migration migration yet (it strips debug symbols). I'd remove that option and try again.
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1057[10:43:01] <themill> amsharma: apt-get queries are really queries about your distro's packages (so asking your distro's help channel is appropriate)
1058[10:43:05] <babilen> benjr: Which package do you want to install? Which release of Debian are you using?
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1060[10:43:59] <benjr> babilen: debian 7, replaced-url
1061[10:44:03] <amsharma> themill: i want to know if there's a way using apt get to upgrade packages less than some size
1062[10:44:12] <babilen> judd: v python-ipaddress
1063[10:44:13] <judd> Package: python-ipaddress on amd64 -- jessie-backports: 1.0.16-1~bpo8+1; sid: 1.0.16-1; stretch: 1.0.16-1
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1066[10:44:26] <amsharma> themill: something like: "apt get upgrade --size-le 5 MB"
1067[10:44:30] <themill> no
1068[10:44:31] <babilen> benjr: That package is from sid and, as you are using wheezy, not available
1069[10:45:01] <amsharma> are you aware of any other tools that can do that or is it technically not possible?
1070[10:45:09] <babilen> benjr: You could upgrade your wheezy installation to jessie and install it from jessie-backports. Or you install it in a virtualenv with pip.
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1072[10:45:40] <Strykar> babilen, so it's built the package with debugging enabled?
1073[10:45:46] <themill> amsharma: you could get a list of upgradable packages and then filter it based on size using grep-dctrl or python-apt. Nothing that a few hours of hacking can't create...
1074[10:46:27] <babilen> Strykar: What it actually does really depends on the package, I'd still run it
1075[10:46:36] <Strykar> uname -a: Linux dbn21 3.16.0-4-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 3.16.7-ckt25-2+deb8u3 (2016-07-02) x86_64 GNU/Linux
1076[10:46:39] <benjr> babilen: i think ill go down that pip route, thanks for the direction ill try googling it from here
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1079[10:47:13] <babilen> benjr: When you are search for packages on replaced-url
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1081[10:47:28] <themill> benjr: btw if you're looking for newer packages, updating the release you're running would be a plan. (Possibly also updating the python you are targeting...)
1082[10:47:50] <benjr> themill: apt-get says i have the latest python
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1084[10:48:11] <themill> benjr: no, it tells you that you have the latest in the wheezy release.
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1088[10:48:46] <babilen> judd: v python
1089[10:48:47] <judd> Package: python on amd64 -- squeeze: 2.6.6-3+squeeze7; wheezy: 2.7.3-4+deb7u1; jessie: 2.7.9-1; stretch: 2.7.11-2; sid: 2.7.11-2
1090[10:48:49] <babilen> benjr: ^
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1092[10:49:05] <themill> well and python-ipaddress is just part of python3 later on
1093[10:49:15] <benjr> im a bit of linux noob and worried that just updating to jessie might break something i wouldnt know how to fix
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1097[10:49:45] <babilen> benjr: Jessie is the current stable release and the version we would recommend
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1099[10:50:40] <babilen> The upgrade process is typically rather smooth (if you follow replaced-url
1100[10:50:43] <benjr> excuse my ignorance but why cant i do that backport to wheezy for the package?
1101[10:52:43] <babilen> benjr: Not all build dependencies are satisfied in wheezy (pypy, might be able to get rid of it though) and an official backport simply doesn't exist. You could, naturally, work on creating one yourself, but using pip in a venv or upgrading to jessie is likely to be easier.
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1103[10:52:57] <babilen> Could be trivial
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1105[10:53:06] <babilen> Any particular reason why you are using wheezy?
1106[10:53:31] <benjr> it was the latest when i installed it
1107[10:53:38] <benjr> no other reason
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1109[10:53:44] <themill> life moves on :)
1110[10:55:41] <benjr> im using zfs which i have no idea how i managed to get that going, but too scared to tamper with it now, thats my biggest concern with upgrading
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1115[10:57:18] <benjr> any chance of that getting messed up?
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1119[10:59:05] <babilen> There's always a chance, regardless of what you do
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1149[11:12:49] <alioui_> hi all, ihave problem installing debian 8.5 with kde desktop. i am getting a message saying that an installation step failed (select and install software) i redo the step and i get the same things
1150[11:12:49] <alioui_> any idea how to solve this ???
1151[11:13:39] <doebi> alioui_: are you using netinstall and do you have internet?
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1154[11:14:27] <alioui_> i tryed both netinstall and the dvd i get the same things
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1158[11:16:21] <jim> what is the exact message?
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1171[11:20:02] <alioui_> installation step failed. you can try to run failing item again from the menu or skip it and choose something else. the failing step is : select and install software
1172[11:20:25] <jim> what was the failing item?
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1174[11:20:45] <jim> oh ok
1175[11:22:20] <jim> what did you try last? netinstall or dvd?
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1178[11:23:41] <hiya> Creating a separate /home really improves a lot of things, full disk encryption
1179[11:23:47] <hiya> who was the guy who suggest me this?
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1182[11:24:07] <Xin> lol why is full disk encryption vs whole partition encryption matter
1183[11:25:10] <Lowl3v3l> Xin, because just encrypt some partitions is likely to open attack vectors^^
1184[11:25:28] <Xin> how
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1188[11:28:26] <Lowl3v3l> Xin, unencrypted swap, root ... are attack vectors because you could smuttle in keyloggers or so to them easier. And they got lots of data already. The general rule of thumb is: a cryptographic system is as strong as its strongest component.
1189[11:28:48] <Xin> swap shouldnt ever contain decrypted stuff... :|
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1192[11:29:00] <Xin> keyloggers are *Smuggled* just as easily
1193[11:29:11] <Xin> thats your mistake, no encryption will help
1194[11:29:25] <Xin> there's really no difference
1195[11:29:30] <Xin> but *Shrug*
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1198[11:29:57] <jim> you sound like you have first hand experience
1199[11:30:22] <Xin> meh im just working on a small security idea/product lately
1200[11:30:27] <Xin> so its fresh in my mind
1201[11:30:41] <Xin> especially long conversations with our security consultant
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1203[11:31:33] <Lowl3v3l> Xin, general rule of thumb : dont write your own crypto stuff, its a bad idea
1204[11:31:57] <Xin> we arent writing crypto stuff ;)
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1214[11:37:19] <Iridos> Lowl3v3l, tell that to the openssl guys?
1215[11:39:27] <Mava> ermm, interesting, speaking about encryption ^^
1216[11:39:54] <Lowl3v3l> Iridos, oh if you are brilliant enough its still a bad idea. but slightly less so than without a phd in maths or cs :D
1217[11:40:02] <Strykar> I wanted 2 instances of a service running and I made a copy of its config, but the 2nd service won't autostart, it says "Loaded: loaded (/lib/systemd/system/privoxy2.service; disabled)" How do I enable it
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1219[11:40:23] <jelly> alioui_, are you booting from cd/dvd or usb; if usb, how did you create the image?
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1221[11:40:45] <jelly> s/create/write/
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1224[11:42:08] <Iridos> Lowl3v3l, I don't think either qualifies you as such... and someone has *got* to write the stuff... (and if you don't know all the people writing openssl or ssh how can you know they're better suited than e.g. xin)
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1227[11:43:42] <Lowl3v3l> Iridos, true, somebody has to do it. Which still means it is risky and error prone. THere is a reason for good crypto software costing 80 or 100 times more than other stuff^^
1228[11:44:22] <Iridos> …which is then closed source, so you'd have to 100% trust the buggers who write it because nobody can check on them anyway
1229[11:44:48] <Xin> lol
1230[11:44:50] <Lowl3v3l> Iridos, uhm nope, not only closed source stuff can be fully audited^^
1231[11:45:03] <Iridos> what?
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1233[11:45:06] <Xin> we're working in anominity products anyway
1234[11:45:57] <alioui_> jim jelly. last time itryed dvd version with virtualbox machine. so just give it the iso file.
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1239[11:47:24] <Iridos> Lowl3v3l, are you running jessie?
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1241[11:48:14] <Lowl3v3l> Iridos, nope. Why is this relevant?
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1251[11:50:07] <Iridos> nvm then
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1260[11:54:12] <Iridos> oh, openssl doesn't have that at all anyway
1261[11:54:35] <babilen> Have what?
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1266[11:55:39] * alioui_ "that"
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1268[11:56:05] <Iridos> it's actually a suse 13.1 where I saw that on... there you can run this: echo blubb | openssl enc -aes-128-cbc -z -pass pass:xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx -base64 -A
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1270[11:57:16] <Iridos> and openssl first ascii-armors the encrypted bit, then compresses the ascii armor… which made me doubt the competence/sanity of openssl developers/developing process
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1273[11:57:41] <Xin> ascii-armor sounds like a totally legit thing
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1275[11:58:36] <Iridos> it's just a base64 encoding so you can send encrypted stuff over ascii-only channels like email etc.
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1277[11:58:54] <Xin> how exciting
1278[11:58:56] <Iridos> replaced-url
1279[11:58:56] <babilen> Maybe continue this in #debian-offtopic? I mean it isn't really a support question or is somebody trying to make a decision?
1280[11:59:08] <Iridos> yeah, can do that
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1284[12:01:05] <Iridos> but don't forget that this is a discussion channel :)
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1295[12:08:05] <Iridos> duh, debian removed zlib support for bug #728055
1296[12:08:07] <judd> Bug replaced-url
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1395[13:11:35] <rommel092079> Good pm. May i ask a link for a step by step procedure to install postfix + dovecot + roundcube on debian jessie pls. TIA
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1398[13:12:15] <rommel092079> Already googled and followed instruction but nothing seems to work for me.
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1448[13:33:36] <tobiasBora> Hello,
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1456[13:34:15] <tobiasBora> I would like to install digikam (a very good photo manager on kde) but it isn' present anymore in the repo... Do you know why ?
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1462[13:35:03] <babilen> judd: v digikam
1463[13:35:04] <judd> Package: digikam on amd64 -- squeeze: 2:1.2.0-7; wheezy: 4:2.6.0-1+deb7u1; jessie: 4:4.4.0-1.1; jessie-backports: 4:4.14.0-3~bpo8+1; stretch: 4:4.14.0-5+b1; sid: 4:5.1.0-2
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1465[13:35:19] <babilen> dpkg: show sources.list
1466[13:35:20] <dpkg> Please pastebin the contents of your /etc/apt/sources.list and /etc/apt/sources.list.d/*.list. The easiest way to do this is to pastebin the output of: head -v -n -0 /etc/apt/sources.list{,.d/*}
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1468[13:35:41] <babilen> tobiasBora: Could you paste ^ along with the output of "apt-cache policy ; apt-cache policy digikam" to replaced-url
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1472[13:36:58] <tobiasBora> babilen: replaced-url
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1475[13:38:20] <babilen> What could possibly go wrong?
1476[13:38:20] <tobiasBora> (the following paste is comming)
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1479[13:38:55] <babilen> I'd recommend to seek support in #debian-next and would recommend to also add unstable to your sources.list and set testing as default release
1480[13:38:58] <babilen> dpkg: tum
1481[13:38:58] <dpkg> «echo 'APT::Default-Release "testing";' >> /etc/apt/apt.conf», edit sources.list, copy your non-security testing lines and change one set to unstable, then apt-get update. Use apt-get -t unstable install foo; to install foo from unstable rather than testing as usual. WARNING to SYNAPTIC users: Synaptic ignores Default-Release: set Preferences->Distribution.
1482[13:39:14] <tobiasBora> replaced-url
1483[13:39:15] <babilen> The #debian-next channel is on irc.oftc.net and the place where we support testing and unstable
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1486[13:40:21] <babilen> tobiasBora: Could you run "apt update" and paste "apt-cache policy digikam" again?
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1489[13:41:13] <tobiasBora> babilen: Hum...
1490[13:41:27] <tobiasBora> I did an update and now it works !
1491[13:41:32] <tobiasBora> Thank you ^^
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1552[14:16:03] <DoctorD90> hi! on my laptop, I have the wifi button. If pressed, it disable wifi, and pc goes in fly mode. How may I prevent at boot to wifi goes up, and it stay in fly mode at boot? like if I'd press button at each boot?
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1571[14:23:11] <FinalX> DoctorD90: no idea really, on most laptops it's a physical switch that disables all radios
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1573[14:23:31] <FinalX> (wifi, bluetooth and alike)
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1575[14:23:58] <DoctorD90> yea FinalX , but if I go on gnome applet, and cick on Wifi> Turn off i get the same as press the button
1576[14:24:12] <DoctorD90> i'd like to start wifi only when I need it
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1600[14:40:18] <ChrisH> DoctorD90: check if rfkill works, and create a systemd service executing an rfkill command during startup.
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1602[14:42:27] <ayekat> hey, is there a reason why the `lighttpd` binary is installed into /usr/sbin instead of /usr/bin?
1603[14:42:53] <jelly> ayekat: it's not meant to be run by normal users directly.
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1605[14:43:58] <ayekat> jelly: not normal user == root or system user (such as replaced-url
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1607[14:44:16] <jelly> right
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1610[14:44:56] <ayekat> OK - so basically it's to avoid that it occasionally pops up in the autocomplete when typing?
1611[14:45:07] <ayekat> I'm running it as a regular user behind a reverse proxy
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1615[14:46:28] <jelly> that's one of the reasons. Completion typically uses the contents of PATH.
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1618[14:47:43] <ayekat> yes - I just wanted to run a quick `lighttpd -t -f <mylighttpdconf>` and realised I had to type its full path due to it being in /usr/sbin, and I was slightly annoyed
1619[14:48:08] <wonko> is there a secret to getting jessie setup with AD on 2012r2 using winbind? Or is that the wrong way to go about it?
1620[14:48:08] <ayekat> but the argument with "it's not normally meant to be run as a regular user" makes sense, even if being used by processes run as regular users
1621[14:48:42] <petemc> wonko: i use sssd to auth against AD
1622[14:49:50] <wonko> petemc: ok, now that i've sorted uid/gid/etc on the AD server maybe I'll give that a go again
1623[14:49:55] <wonko> 2012r2 is infuriating
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1631[14:55:38] <Epakai> i'm using chromium 52 but i can't get alt+backspace to do anything (should go back a page). i tried incognito and running with --temp-profile. I checked in xev and my Alt buttons seem to be sending the right signal (ALT_L and ALT_R)
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1636[14:59:56] <missmbob> Epakai: replaced-url
1637[15:01:20] <DoctorD90> ChrisH, i'd like to just edit some setting, instead of start wifi, then immediatly shutdown....this, at each boot, belong to me may damage wifi card :)
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1644[15:04:10] <Epakai> i'm aware the backspace is gone, but alt+backspace replaces it, and this doesn't seem to function, i've tested on two machines now, maybe this is an xfce problem or default shortcut
1645[15:04:21] <iliv> is there a way to disable tcpwrapper on debian 8 system?
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1647[15:05:10] <themill> iliv: what are you really trying to do?
1648[15:05:12] <missmbob> Epakai: i didn't read anything about alt+backspace. alt+left arrow works
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1650[15:06:01] <iliv> themill, I don't really need it
1651[15:06:26] <themill> well it does nothing if you don't configure it
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1653[15:06:50] <iliv> and by that you mean if /etc/hosts.allow and hosts.deny remain empty?
1654[15:07:23] <jelly> not sure if hosts.deny even exists by default
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1659[15:09:24] <Epakai> no good, alt+left/right/up/down are my tiling shortcuts. i tested in xmonad now as well. guess i'll file a bug
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1661[15:11:18] <Epakai> oh i see now, i took that left arrow as being a backspace key the intended shortcut is alt+left arrow
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1663[15:11:42] <themill> jelly: libwrap0 postinst creates an empty one
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1667[15:13:28] <iliv> alright, I see.. so, both files are empty all connections are allowed
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1669[15:13:36] <iliv> so, if both files *
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1675[15:14:30] <julius_> hi
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1677[15:15:29] <julius_> why does this: replaced-url
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1679[15:15:44] <FAMAS> greetings to all
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1681[15:16:14] <julius_> how do i get the "biblatex" command?
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1683[15:16:27] <themill> julius_: there is no such command; are you thinking of bibtex not biblatex?
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1685[15:17:02] <julius_> im not sure themill
1686[15:17:10] <julius_> i want to use references in a latex document
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1688[15:17:25] <julius_> but my references are never displayed when i use \printbibliography
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1691[15:18:12] <julius_> themill, replaced-url
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1694[15:18:58] <themill> julius_: looks a lot like "bibtex" that you want, nothing fancier
1695[15:19:11] <babilen> julius_: You might want to use latexmk which would take care of running the different tools you need
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1697[15:19:54] <julius_> actually i was hoping to use texstudio....but the default "quick compile command" seems to be ignoring the bibliograpy....so i tried todo it manually first
1698[15:20:28] <julius_> themill, on the document i shared. what would be a typical command line invocation to get a pdf?
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1700[15:22:04] <FAMAS> this user finds it surprising to the self that there are thousands of active users in debian irc channel contributing to the operating system
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1702[15:24:08] <themill> julius_: pdflatex untitled; bibtex untitled; pdflatex untitled; (or just latexmk -pdf -pvc untitled)
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1707[15:25:00] <julius_> lets try that
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1712[15:26:53] <julius_> babilen, latexmk does not even check if all the programs it wants to run are installed...it just printed sh: 1 biber not found....thats not a very good tool
1713[15:27:13] <themill> julius_: that's telling you it's not installed.
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1718[15:27:50] <julius_> i know
1719[15:27:51] <biberu> but i'm right here
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1723[15:28:04] <julius_> i was just pointint out that latexmk should check that before running something
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1728[15:29:10] <themill> julius_: the way to check if it is there is to try to run it.
1729[15:29:28] <themill> julius_: in any case, you pointed us to a different document to the one you're trying to compile
1730[15:29:31] <julius_> wasnt installed
1731[15:29:40] <julius_> oh, my fault
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1739[15:30:58] <julius_> themill, youre right. there are two documents on sharelatex. untitled.tex is the one im currently working on
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1741[15:31:08] <julius_> im new to sharelatex...can you see untitled?
1742[15:31:12] <themill> julius_: on sharelatex, untitled.tex also doesn't compile cleanly -- check the logs
1743[15:31:18] * themill points back at #latex
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1753[15:36:08] <julius_> good catch
1754[15:36:16] <julius_> the backend=bibtex was missing
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1756[15:37:27] <julius_> i guess the fault is entirely with me, i used the "play" button in texstudio instaed of the "build and view" button....and to top that i found a flawed latex example and maybe another one
1757[15:37:49] <julius_> thank you guys for your patience
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1762[15:39:24] <mhoney> has anyone seen a workaround for the bug in Jessie that won't mount an lvm volume after reboot?
1763[15:39:40] <mhoney> My GoogleFu is coming up with zilch
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1765[15:41:08] <SynrGy> if you want to know what "the" bug is you're referring to, cite the bug# in the BTS
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1768[15:42:24] <SynrGy> s/want to/want people to/
1769[15:42:29] <julius_> mhoney, vgchange -a y
1770[15:42:33] <julius_> works for my external drive
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1772[15:43:00] <mhoney> julius_, ya that works, but I need something that will work automatically
1773[15:43:31] <SynrGy> if it's a known issue, it should be in the BTS, and simply looking it up there you will find any known workarounds.
1774[15:43:31] <RoyK> lvmetad, perhaps?
1775[15:43:52] <SynrGy> if a better workaround is not yet recorded and you find out one, then please supplement the bug with your findings.
1776[15:44:13] <mhoney> the bug was filled back with 8.1 - wonder why it's not getting any attention
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1779[15:44:42] <SynrGy> without reading the bug report, hard to know :)
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1791[15:48:01] <xdije> hi
1792[15:48:24] <xdije> i have a strange problem or maybe missing config with debian jessi
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1794[15:48:57] <xdije> whatever i enter for password it accept it and log me in or su to root
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1797[15:49:57] <ephemer0l> got a wildcard in /etc/shaddow?
1798[15:50:02] <petemc> xdije: did you use any non standard characters when creating password?
1799[15:51:12] <xdije> no
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1801[15:52:59] <RoyK> mhoney: did you try lvmetad?
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1805[15:54:53] <lvh> Hi! Is there any documentation for configuring OpenVPN on Debian? I can't follow replaced-url
1806[15:55:12] <lvh> the easy-rsa share dir doesn't have anything exciting
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1811[15:57:24] <mhoney> RoyK, Ill check into that
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1821[16:00:39] <bibble> lvh: there's actually a command for it
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1824[16:01:01] <bibble> something like 'make-ca-dir'
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1827[16:01:32] <jelly> mhoney: how does it fail? which bug# is it?
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1829[16:01:45] <jelly> (wfm)
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1831[16:02:17] <sypher> lvh: Which OpenVPN release are you using?
1832[16:02:58] <lvh> The openvpn package is 2.3.4-5+deb8u1
1833[16:03:13] <sypher> lvh: And which path are you looking at?
1834[16:03:14] <lvh> dpkg -l shows /usr/share/easy-rsa/, which I _think_ is what I want?
1835[16:03:15] <dpkg> No packages found matching shows /usr/share/easy-rsa/, which I _think_ is what I want
1836[16:03:23] <lvh> heh, thanks dpkg
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1838[16:03:55] <sypher> lvh: Yes, that's where the scripts will be.
1839[16:04:07] <bibble> 'apt get install easy-rsa', 'sudo make-cadir /etc/openvpn/easy-rsa'
1840[16:04:13] <lvh> replaced-url
1841[16:04:35] <lvh> but judging from what that tutorial expects to be in that dir, /usr/share/easy-rsa is what it wants
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1843[16:04:47] <sypher> bibble: He already has easy-rsa, it's a dependency for openvpn.
1844[16:04:55] <sypher> lvh: The path likely changed from when that howto was written.
1845[16:05:22] <lvh> That latter command did something though :)
1846[16:05:30] <bibble> sypher: ah. lvh , 'which make-cadir' gives what ?
1847[16:05:56] <lvh> bibble, sypher: which make-cadir is /usr/bin/make-cadir . Thanks! I'll go edit that wiki :)
1848[16:06:12] <bibble> cool
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1871[16:20:20] <jelly> ,v fonts-symbola
1872[16:20:21] <judd> Package: fonts-symbola on amd64 -- sid: 2.59-1; stretch: 2.59-1
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1898[16:36:39] <zebulon1st> impossible to connect to replaced-url
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1901[16:37:09] <zebulon1st> webircs are the only solution I have to go to IRC.
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1905[16:37:18] <zebulon1st> (as here)
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1910[16:38:55] <mhoney> jelly, I can't find the particular bug I saw referenced during my many google searches. Basically what I have is a software raid 5 (Not boot drive) with a vg sitting on top. The raid starts ok, but lvm won't start the vg. I have to issue a vgchange -ay everytime I reboot
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1912[16:39:15] <SynrG> zebulon1st: do you have a question to ask here, then? or did you just come to complain about something we can't fix for you?
1913[16:39:26] <SynrG> i mean, a debian support question
1914[16:39:37] <SynrG> we'll do our best with testing/unstable questions ...
1915[16:40:09] <RoyK> mhoney: I've seen similar with an lv not getting activated - on every bootup - with one of our servers - haven't figured it out yet (the lv is on a FC SAN, not md)
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1917[16:40:29] <RoyK> mhoney: but did you try lvmetad?
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1919[16:41:41] <SynrG> zebulon1st: incidentally, i Just connected using Chromium and replaced-url
1920[16:42:05] <zebulon1st> SynrG: sorry, it's not a question about debian. but I have a question about stretch, so I have to connect to OFTC to join debian-next. But I can't. It do not connect.
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1922[16:42:16] <jhutchins> zebulon1st: The site resolves just fine for me. What kind of strange network are you on?
1923[16:42:21] <zebulon1st> SynrG: I think it's a port problem.
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1925[16:42:35] <mhoney> royk, I found on my proxmox server adding a rootdelay=2 (or more) fixes the lvm not starting, but that only works if the lvm is sitting on a real hardware raid. I think the software raid / lvm combo is causing my other issue
1926[16:43:01] <mhoney> RoyK, I tried activating lvmetad in the lvm.conf but that didn't work
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1928[16:43:36] <SynrG> zebulon1st: firewall blocking WebSockets?
1929[16:43:41] <RoyK> mhoney: hm... where did you add the rootdelay=
1930[16:43:42] <zebulon1st> SynrG: Many services are filtered out, like general IRC, NTP, FPT, thinks like these. So I have to use qwebirc to join IRC.
1931[16:44:04] <zebulon1st> SynrG: I have no access to the firewall
1932[16:44:05] <SynrG> chromium inspector shows a Socket
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1934[16:44:18] <SynrG> well, just a theory that this might be your issue.
1935[16:44:33] <mhoney> RoyK, to the kernal boot line in grub.cfg
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1937[16:44:53] <mhoney> RoyK, linux /boot/vmlinuz-3.16.0-4-amd64 root=UUID=ea4e2e30-3781-48aa-9ebe-8cdedf612a5f ro quiet rootdelay=2
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1939[16:45:18] <jhutchins> zebulon1st: webchat.oftc.net uses port 443. I think your network provider doesn't want you messing around on the 'net.
1940[16:45:32] <jhutchins> zebulon1st: It might be in your best interest to respect that intent.
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1942[16:46:57] <jhutchins> zebulon1st: On the other hand, there's no reason not to ask stretch questions here, #debian-next just has a greater concentration of testing/unstable users.
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1945[16:47:22] <zebulon1st> I used "stretch"
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1947[16:47:33] <zebulon1st> *use
1948[16:47:43] <RoyK> mhoney: thanks - gotta try that on this server...
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1975[16:57:57] <someone13> my only wis in life is to smell emilia clarke's feet and lick her soles and suck her toes
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1981[17:00:34] <N1CK53RV> I HAVE A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO STAB MY POOP TO DEATH WITH A TOOTHPICK!
1982[17:00:39] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o abrotman
1983[17:00:39] <toruvinn> someone13, have you tried apt-get installing it?
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1987[17:00:49] <abrotman> toruvinn: please do'nt feed the troll
1988[17:00:50] <toruvinn> what the hell is going on in this # anyway...
1989[17:01:00] <toruvinn> abrotman, he's silenced already, though ;-)
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1992[17:01:04] <abrotman> doesnt' matter
1993[17:01:11] <toruvinn> ok, sorry then!
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2004[17:02:43] <dwarfmut> guys...
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2009[17:03:50] <dwarfmut> i installed debian with desktop enviromnent.. but he dont install gnome-core or another gui...
2010[17:03:57] <dwarfmut> it is correct?
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2015[17:05:18] <dwarfmut> i need install gnome-core after install debian?
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2020[17:06:44] <jelly> which desktop environment did you choose during the installation?
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2022[17:07:04] <FreshDumbledore> hi, how does aptitude do its autoremove list? asking because apt-get autoremove proposes a lot of packages i think i would like to keep using :^)
2023[17:07:11] <FreshDumbledore> xfce for me@jelly
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2025[17:07:12] <dwarfmut> jelly: yes...
2026[17:07:34] <jelly> what is your native language, dwarfmut?
2027[17:07:43] <dwarfmut> jelly: portuguese
2028[17:07:48] <jelly> !pt
2029[17:07:49] <dpkg> Por favor use #debian-pt para ajuda em portugues ou #debian-br para ajuda em portugues do brasil. ( /join #debian-pt )
2030[17:07:59] <jelly> maybe.
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2032[17:08:56] <jelly> nope, sorry, #debian-pt seems to be dead
2033[17:09:02] <jelly> both here and on oftc
2034[17:09:19] <dwarfmut> jelly: why i need enter in br channel? its a rule ?
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2036[17:10:13] <FreshDumbledore> what makes apt-get autoremove think i dont need vlc or xfce4-panel anymore? :l
2037[17:10:17] <jelly> you didn't seem to understand <jelly> which desktop environment did you choose # there were multiple options, I asked which one did you select
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2039[17:11:09] <themill> FreshDumbledore: you removed the only thing that depended on them. You can "apt-mark manual" or "aptitude unmarkauto" the packages
2040[17:11:34] <FreshDumbledore> themill, but those are already 'final applications' i want to use - nothing should depend on them
2041[17:11:43] <themill> not true
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2043[17:11:53] <dwarfmut> jelly: i choose desktop options jelly
2044[17:11:54] <jelly> FreshDumbledore: you may have removed a dependency for a metapackage like task-xfce-desktop
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2046[17:12:14] <jelly> dwarfmut: there are multiple choices in that selection box.
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2050[17:12:38] <themill> FreshDumbledore: "apt-cache rdepends vlc" ← there are many
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2052[17:13:06] <jelly> dwarfmut: maybe you picked soemthing other than Gnome (kde, or xfce, or lmde or cinnamon or mate?)
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2055[17:13:28] <FreshDumbledore> themill, ok but vlc is a program that i even want to use if nothing else depends on it - that was my idea
2056[17:13:44] <themill> FreshDumbledore: sure, so that's why I told you how to fix this
2057[17:13:51] <jelly> FreshDumbledore: the system did not know you wanted to use them. To tell it so, mark it manually installed.
2058[17:14:15] <jelly> (task-xfce-desktop explicitely depends on vlc and xfce4-panel)
2059[17:14:33] <FreshDumbledore> its new for me that apt would try to remove packages for 'no reason', from my view
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2061[17:14:54] <themill> It's perfectly normal and there is always a reason
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2065[17:15:13] <dwarfmut> jelly: i dont select network mirror for dont install trashs
2066[17:15:51] <dwarfmut> jelly: default debian iso dont work equal xfce iso? installing gnome for example?
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2069[17:16:10] <dwarfmut> jelly: its a question...
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2071[17:16:37] <jelly> dwarfmut: gnome is the default desktop environment, yes
2072[17:17:06] <FreshDumbledore> from my point of view, autoremove should only remove packages that were dependencies for other programs and are not used anymore. not, in lack of a better term, 'final programs' aka things i explicitly installed for the purpose of using them on their own :^)
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2074[17:17:22] <jelly> FreshDumbledore: wild-ass guess: try installing task-xfce-desktop back, see which packages will get pulled in -- you may have removed some of those, which resulted in task-xfce-desktop being removed, which in turn resulted in vlc and some other stuff not having a reason to be installed any more
2075[17:17:40] <jelly> FreshDumbledore: did you in fact explicitely install vlc?
2076[17:17:43] <dwarfmut> jelly: i select desktop environment in install but dont install gnome... install only xorg...
2077[17:18:00] <jelly> dwarfmut: that's weird
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2079[17:18:12] <dwarfmut> jelly: i dont select network mirrors, a think this is reason
2080[17:18:15] <FreshDumbledore> no it was part of the default installation so its a bad example
2081[17:18:30] <FreshDumbledore> i dont know if it was pulled in as a dependency or not :^)
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2083[17:18:50] <dwarfmut> jelly: i install one more time, and every time happened
2084[17:19:08] <jelly> dwarfmut: which iso image did you use?
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2086[17:19:47] <dwarfmut> jelly: this... replaced-url
2087[17:20:05] <themill> FreshDumbledore: you have a concept of "final program" that no-one else does (including apt). vlc is used as a library by quite a lot of other things.
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2090[17:20:39] <FreshDumbledore> themill, so if you do apt-get install vlc and then do autoremove it would be uninstalled, from your theory :^)
2091[17:20:50] <themill> ummm no
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2093[17:21:08] <FreshDumbledore> see, because you explicitly installed it
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2095[17:21:33] <themill> and you didn't
2096[17:21:41] <FreshDumbledore> could be
2097[17:21:43] <jelly> dwarfmut: I guess that should have gnome on it. In any case if you don't have network access at install time, you won't have patches and your system will not be up-to-date. I suggest trying to install with a wired network connection and pick a mirror.
2098[17:21:55] <FreshDumbledore> was part of the default installation, i dont know how it was processed
2099[17:22:24] <jelly> default installation doesn't have xfce at all
2100[17:22:36] <FreshDumbledore> well, it asks you for a wm
2101[17:22:42] <FreshDumbledore> still default chosing one of the options
2102[17:22:42] <FreshDumbledore> :P
2103[17:22:43] <dwarfmut> jelly: yes... i think this
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2105[17:23:17] <jelly> FreshDumbledore: choosing a non-default setting by definition makes it a non-default installation, don't you think
2106[17:23:21] <dwarfmut> jelly: if i choose gnome in my installation, he install gnome-core or gnome-desktop with all applications?
2107[17:23:45] <SynrG> CD-1 is very small
2108[17:23:56] <jelly> dwarfmut: I _think_ it will install task-gnome-desktop
2109[17:23:56] <SynrG> Why not DVD-1?
2110[17:24:17] <jelly> ,depends task-gnome-desktop
2111[17:24:18] <SynrG> I don't recall how they partitioned it
2112[17:24:18] <judd> Package task-gnome-desktop in jessie/amd64 -- depends: tasksel (= 3.31+deb8u1), task-desktop, gnome-core.
2113[17:24:29] <FreshDumbledore> jelly, picking one of the options provided by an installer doesnt make the installation non default :^)
2114[17:24:32] <jelly> task inception.
2115[17:25:03] <themill> FreshDumbledore: default sort of means not picking options
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2118[17:25:37] <FreshDumbledore> doenst change my critic on apt anyway
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2120[17:25:59] <themill> FreshDumbledore: you are quite correct in stating that apt is neither sentient nor a mind-reader
2121[17:27:11] <jelly> FreshDumbledore: apt, aptitude and dpkg also keep logs. I bet if you look at those, you'll find out you removed some packages after the installation.
2122[17:27:39] <jelly> FreshDumbledore: some of the things you removed may have depended on vlc.
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2124[17:27:43] <FreshDumbledore> i probably actually mind the way the installer does it
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2126[17:28:15] <FreshDumbledore> however in the result i mind having to mark packages to be able to use autoremove :^)
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2128[17:28:27] <SynrG> FreshDumbledore: i would like you to entertain the thought that perhaps the software is doing something reasonable, but still not what you wanted.
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2130[17:28:35] <themill> FreshDumbledore: in the time you've whinged about it, you could have done it.
2131[17:28:46] <SynrG> FreshDumbledore: and to make it do what you wanted would be to ask it to do something unreasonable, in the general case.
2132[17:28:46] <FreshDumbledore> SynrG, yeh i understand that apt just does his job if the packages were pulled in as dependencies for something
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2135[17:29:14] <plain-stooge> hello
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2137[17:29:22] * jelly will refrain from commenting further until FreshDumbledore actually takes a look at the logs or at the task-xfce-desktop theory
2138[17:30:19] <FreshDumbledore> ofc i removed packages, like openoffice and others, denying that was never my point jelly. my point is packages like vlc should not just be pulled in as dependencies but be installed 'standalone'
2139[17:30:32] <FreshDumbledore> so they dont get thrown away if i remove something else
2140[17:30:41] <themill> FreshDumbledore: except you are not correct about vlc.
2141[17:30:52] <themill> but we've been over this how many times now?
2142[17:31:00] <FreshDumbledore> not enough, as you dont understand it yet
2143[17:31:04] <jelly> FreshDumbledore: then it's the user that will have to install them standalone, or mark them as such
2144[17:31:37] <themill> FreshDumbledore: umm... whatever.
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2146[17:31:57] <jelly> xfce4-panel, your other example, is not very useful without the rest of xfce
2147[17:32:17] <FreshDumbledore> i am on xfce though and dont plan to change it
2148[17:32:36] <jelly> FreshDumbledore: verify whether you've removed task-xfce-desktop
2149[17:32:42] <FreshDumbledore> so if autoremove removes my panels, it would be an issue
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2153[17:33:43] <plain-stooge> Hey guys, I was having an issue with Debian hard-freezing the other day but i think i've got it fixed. It was my PCI Wifi card and some conflicting firmware with my old realtek usb wifi adapter
2154[17:33:59] <FreshDumbledore> orage seems to be the culprit jelly
2155[17:34:07] <plain-stooge> other than that issue I really like debian :)
2156[17:34:09] <FreshDumbledore> removing that removed what you said
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2159[17:34:56] <FreshDumbledore> reinstalling orage empties my apt-get autoremove list
2160[17:35:18] <plain-stooge> I uninstalled the old Realtek firmware and my uptime ATM is about 15hrs, whereas before it would freeze after ~20 mins
2161[17:35:29] <jelly> !win plain-stooge
2162[17:35:30] <dpkg> Congratulations, plain-stooge! You have won the US presidency!
2163[17:35:37] <plain-stooge> yay!
2164[17:35:59] <tjt263> hey if i use a tool like lsusb, can i use those device numbers with ip dev? i.e:
2165[17:36:02] <tjt263> Bus 003 Device 013: ID 0bda:8187 Realtek Semiconductor Corp. RTL8187 Wireless Adapter
2166[17:36:05] <tjt263> Bus 003 Device 012: ID 0cf3:9271 Atheros Communications, Inc. AR9271 802.11n
2167[17:36:18] <jelly> tjt263: nope
2168[17:36:47] <tjt263> damn.
2169[17:36:56] <tjt263> didnt think they were related
2170[17:37:36] <jelly> you'll have to somehow figure out which eth* or wlan* belong to which driver and device
2171[17:37:46] <FreshDumbledore> jelly, how can i remove orage, which has depends on xfc4 and task-xfce-desktop, without marking everything related to this 2 as obsolete / autoremovable?
2172[17:37:53] <jelly> FreshDumbledore: don't remove it.
2173[17:38:12] <FreshDumbledore> but.. i dont need it ._.
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2175[17:38:40] <jelly> then mark manual all the _other_ dependencies of xfce4 and task-xfce-desktop first
2176[17:39:11] <jelly> orage is an integral xfce component
2177[17:39:22] <FreshDumbledore> its just an ugly calendar :l
2178[17:39:49] <jelly> that's not relevant to package management
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2183[17:41:46] <FreshDumbledore> jelly, would it be sufficient to mark manual on xfce4 and task-xfce-desktop?
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2185[17:42:29] <jelly> that won't prevent them from being removed when a dependency of theirs is removed, so no
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2187[17:44:12] <FreshDumbledore> jelly, okay thanks marked the dependencies of them as manual and removed orage, autoremove is fine
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2191[17:45:10] <jelly> yes, when you actually tell the system a package was installed manually, it obeys
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2194[17:46:03] <FreshDumbledore> still feels weird to me that removing a calendar makes the system think i dont need my wm anymore :^) ok, it cant know. maybe the installer should mark the wms i install as manual
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2198[17:47:44] <jelly> it did. You removed a component that xfce metapackages depend on.
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2201[17:49:42] <jelly> in addition, getting rid of task-* or DE metapackage like xfce4 makes further release upgrades (say, when debian 9 gets out) more prone to cruft and breakage
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2203[17:50:32] <tjt263> jelly: that should be easy enough ;
2204[17:50:33] <tjt263> blackAlfa == atherosAR9271 ; silverAlfa == realtekRTL8187 ;
2205[17:50:34] <jelly> for that reason, I'd advise against component micromanagement
2206[17:51:04] <FreshDumbledore> it was not obvious (or logical) to me that that calendar would be an important xfce component :D
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2208[17:52:29] <jhutchins> FreshDumbledore: Think of the components that are part of gnome.
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2210[17:52:44] <jelly> FreshDumbledore: apt warned you it would remove task-xfce-desktop along with small-uninteresting-bit-i-dont-use
2211[17:52:47] <jhutchins> FreshDumbledore: It's an expected part of a desktop environment.
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2214[17:53:47] <jelly> > The following packages will be REMOVED:
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2216[17:53:50] <FreshDumbledore> jelly, yes, i do acknowledge it was my fault to not pay attention there
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2220[17:54:00] <FreshDumbledore> i just trust, because its debian, you know :^)
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2222[17:55:36] <jelly> both apt and aptitude, can do things you wouldn't expect them to
2223[17:56:01] <FreshDumbledore> lesson learned :)
2224[17:56:11] <FreshDumbledore> even on debian, you can not go full autopilot on packages
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2226[17:56:59] <jelly> you can, if you don't go randomly removing stuff
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2228[17:57:31] <jelly> (but then you get lots of cruft over the releases)
2229[17:57:55] <FreshDumbledore> just an ugly calendar ._.
2230[17:57:56] <FreshDumbledore> :)
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2262[18:15:25] <durka42> Hi, I need some help reading /var/log/dpkg.log. I'm trying to downgrade libc to the version I had before the latest upgrade, and the log says "upgrade linux-libc-dev:amd64 3.13.0-91.138 3.13.0-92.139". But I tried `apt-get install linux-libc-dev=3.13.0-91.138` to downgrade and it says no such version. What gives?
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2268[18:19:17] <jmcnaught> durka42: which release of Debian is this for?
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2275[18:21:15] <jelly> durka42: that sounds ubuntu or a derivative distro. If you were on Debian you'd be able to use snapshot.debian.org to find older package versions. Ask in your distro's channel what they do.
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2283[18:24:06] <jelly> durka42: here's a final free hint: apt can only work with versions that are still available in configured repos. "apt-cache policy linux-libc-dev"
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2288[18:25:27] <cybrNaut> "apt-cache policy bitlbee" says installed and candidate versions are the same (3.2.2-2+b1). But when I run "reportbug bitlbee" it says my version is out of date
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2291[18:26:03] <jelly> ,v bitlbee
2292[18:26:04] <judd> Package: bitlbee on amd64 -- wheezy: 3.0.5-1.2; jessie: 3.2.2-2+b1; stretch: 3.4.2-1.1; sid: 3.4.2-1.1
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2295[18:26:20] <cybrNaut> is that a bug in reportbug?
2296[18:26:39] <SynrG> or a bug in your apt policy?
2297[18:26:40] <jelly> maybe it looked at unstable?
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2300[18:26:53] <SynrG> give us the output of: apt-cache policy
2301[18:27:03] <SynrG> (no arguments)
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2306[18:27:58] <jelly> ,v bitlbee --arch i386
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2308[18:27:59] <judd> Package: bitlbee on i386 -- wheezy: 3.0.5-1.2; jessie: 3.2.2-2; stretch: 3.4.2-1.1; sid: 3.4.2-1.1
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2310[18:28:08] <iamawesome> Is qt installed with debian by default?
2311[18:28:24] <iamawesome> For example someone installed gnome debian
2312[18:28:28] <jelly> iamawesome: why do you ask?
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2315[18:28:50] <iamawesome> I want to know
2316[18:29:00] <jelly> iamawesome: what's your goal? qt has lots of components, some may be installed some not
2317[18:29:01] <iamawesome> Is it default with debian installation?
2318[18:29:32] <johnr_> How am I supposed to configure xdg-open on Jessie? xdg-open file.pdf # does not even work.
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2320[18:29:48] <johnr_> I have evince installed as well as acroread.
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2322[18:29:53] <iamawesome> Suppose there is a qt program/software, he needs to run it. So are the necessary packages installed by default with debian to run that qt program?
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2325[18:30:23] <johnr_> According to some bug report Jessie now has "native support", whatever that may mean, since it doesn't work.
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2327[18:30:43] <keekz> does "deb replaced-url
2328[18:30:51] <jelly> cybrNaut: my reportbug also says where it found the newer versions, immediately below "Your version (3.2.2-2) of bitlbee appears to be out of date."
2329[18:30:52] <johnr_> xdg-open also seems to be some god awful shell script.
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2332[18:31:30] <jelly> !hdn
2333[18:31:30] <dpkg> To have <APT> automatically select a mirror close to you, use the Geo-IP redirector in your sources.list "deb replaced-url
2334[18:31:31] <leba2> I'm having a strange issue with ntp on Debian 8.5. Whenever I start the pc (or reboot), ntp service status (systemctl status ntp -l) gives errors "getaddrinfo: #.debian.pool.ntp.org invalid host address. ignored", where #=0,1,2,3. But if restarting ntp service there are no more errors, as if fixed. Problem is errors happen whenever rebooting.
2335[18:31:33] <leba2> I'm having a strange issue with ntp on Debian 8.5. Whenever I start the pc (or reboot), ntp service status (systemctl status ntp -l) gives errors "getaddrinfo: #.debian.pool.ntp.org invalid host address. ignored", where #=0,1,2,3. But if restarting ntp service there are no more errors, as if fixed. Problem is errors happen whenever rebooting.
2336[18:31:35] <leba2> (ouch)
2337[18:31:35] <johnr_> It even tries to call programs which do not exist.
2338[18:31:52] <jelly> keekz: what about the newer hostname httpredir.debian.org
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2340[18:32:07] <johnr_> So, instead of checking and giving some error message, it just calls it.
2341[18:32:17] <keekz> jelly: i haven't tried that yet, it used to be http.debian.net which apparently is not workign, and i have tons of servers set to use http.debian.net
2342[18:32:20] <johnr_> And, on top of that, these are program which I never configured.
2343[18:32:20] <leba2> Still, ntpq -np gives me some few addresses and one of them is marked with *, which means it's seemingly working normally...
2344[18:32:27] <johnr_> It tries to use elinks to open a PDF file.
2345[18:32:33] <johnr_> Can it be any more retarded?
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2348[18:32:47] <keekz> trying to figure out if http.debian.net is permanently dead, or intermittent fail
2349[18:32:51] <johnr_> !xdg
2350[18:32:51] <dpkg> freedesktop.org (fd.o, formerly X Desktop Group) is a project focusing on interoperability and shared base technology for free software desktop environments for the X Window System. replaced-url
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2352[18:32:57] <johnr_> !xdg-open
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2354[18:33:11] <jelly> iamawesome: if the software is in debian or it has repos made for debian, installation will pull in any necessary library packages needed to make it work
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2356[18:33:29] <m0ordzieK> Any Samba experts here?
2357[18:33:42] <keekz> it looks like it's just intermittently failing
2358[18:33:47] <keekz> just worked for me now :/
2359[18:33:52] <zykotick9> m0ordzieK: keep ubuntu-based questions in #ubuntu
2360[18:34:22] <jelly> keekz: it has been renamed a couple months back, maybe a year now
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2362[18:34:44] <keekz> so is httpredir.debian.org the "proper" name... for now... ?
2363[18:34:49] <jelly> yeah
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2365[18:34:59] <SynrG> yep. since a while ago.
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2367[18:35:04] <keekz> or ftp.debian.org ? because the documentation states both
2368[18:35:05] <leba2> Hello?
2369[18:35:37] <keekz> replaced-url
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2371[18:36:12] <m0ordzieK> zykotick9
2372[18:36:16] <m0ordzieK> actually
2373[18:36:19] <m0ordzieK> it isnt ubuntu based
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2375[18:36:23] <m0ordzieK> i just tought they would know
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2378[18:36:28] <jelly> dpkg, tell m0ordzieK about enter
2379[18:36:31] <johnr_> One of the things output by xdg-open is: Error: no "view" rule for type "application/pdf" passed its test case
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2381[18:36:48] <johnr_> Hello, I am actually running Debian.
2382[18:37:33] <johnr_> I don't understand why such simple stuff as figuring out a mimetype, figuring out that evince and acroread are candidates, and then starting one of the two is such a major problem in Debian.
2383[18:37:45] <johnr_> xdg-open is full of hacks.
2384[18:37:57] <johnr_> And it doesn't even work.
2385[18:38:15] <johnr_> So, how is someone supposed to open a pdf file on Jessie via xdg-open?
2386[18:38:26] <jelly> johnr_: is your DISPLAY variable set correctly in the shell you're trying to run xdg-open from?
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2388[18:38:50] <johnr_> jelly: probably not.
2389[18:38:54] <jelly> why?
2390[18:39:05] <johnr_> jelly: because I am testing this in a remote shell.
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2392[18:39:22] <jelly> johnr_: then X apps won't be able to work
2393[18:39:31] <johnr_> jelly: I could try an X session, but it seems rather silly that it doesn't warn me about that.
2394[18:39:43] <johnr_> jelly: more like horrendously retarded.
2395[18:39:52] <johnr_> jelly: *especially* for pdf.
2396[18:40:02] <johnr_> What was the last time you used a text renderer for PDF?
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2398[18:40:16] <babilen> johnr_: What did you expect to happen?
2399[18:40:18] <johnr_> jelly: so, I will try it via an X session.
2400[18:40:23] <jelly> what was the last time you tried to open a .pdf on Linux without X ?
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2404[18:40:57] <johnr_> babilen: I want xdg-open to be a dumb tool, which just maps from filetype to program.
2405[18:41:15] <jelly> johnr_: I'm guessing: a minute ago, and the system couldn't find any command to "view" such a file in absence of X
2406[18:41:33] <johnr_> jelly: so, why couldn't it just have said that?
2407[18:41:47] <johnr_> Because it was made by the xdg people who want to have a broken desktop.
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2409[18:41:52] <jelly> probably noone noticed
2410[18:42:00] <johnr_> There are many such bugs.
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2412[18:42:04] <jelly> because all the xdg stuff assumes X running
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2414[18:42:14] <johnr_> jelly: replaced-url
2415[18:42:23] <judd> Bug replaced-url
2416[18:42:29] <johnr_> jelly: I will check your hypothesis.
2417[18:42:35] <johnr_> jelly: one moment.
2418[18:42:36] <babilen> johnr_: Where do you want it to open it?
2419[18:42:50] <johnr_> babilen: on the target system.
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2421[18:43:27] <johnr_> babilen: you know what's also "fun"?
2422[18:43:37] <babilen> johnr_: In which X session?
2423[18:43:38] <johnr_> babilen: when it finally calls lynx, it doesn't escape its argument.
2424[18:44:00] <johnr_> babilen: so, if you have a file name with spaces, it happily tries to open it a million times.
2425[18:44:01] <johnr_> GREAT
2426[18:44:13] <babilen> xdg-open silliness aside, I still don't quite understand what you wanted to happen
2427[18:44:13] <johnr_> Really, does *anyone* do *ANY* QA on this?
2428[18:44:17] <jelly> that sounds like a separate issue
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2430[18:44:35] <johnr_> jelly: the issue is that the people who made xdg-open are stupid.
2431[18:44:45] <johnr_> jelly: and I am stupid for assuming they weren't.
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2433[18:44:53] <babilen> Did you expect xdg-open to start X and display the PDF on the remote box?
2434[18:45:00] <johnr_> babilen: NO
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2436[18:45:15] <babilen> What do you mean by "on the target system" then?
2437[18:45:15] *** Parts: durka42 (~durka42@replaced-ip)
2438[18:45:17] <johnr_> babilen: I just expected it to start the binary and then say "your DISPLAY variable is not set".
2439[18:45:27] <johnr_> babilen: like I said: like a dumb mapping.
2440[18:45:43] <babilen> Right, that makes more sense
2441[18:45:47] <johnr_> babilen: and how it's possible that I have to explain this twice to you escapes me.
2442[18:45:56] <johnr_> babilen: sounds like an attempt at trolling.
2443[18:46:07] <jelly> johnr_: sorry, that's not a constructive approach to solving one or more tech issues, I'll let someone else help you if they want.
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2446[18:46:22] <babilen> Huh? When did you explain it the first time around? I also don't think that we will actually be able to help.
2447[18:46:36] <greycat> johnr_: which pathway is xdg_open taking on your system? Which DE are you in, etc.?
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2450[18:47:02] <johnr_> greycat: on a shell it uses "generic".
2451[18:47:19] <johnr_> greycat: anyway, I will first test something.
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2456[18:48:00] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1671
2457[18:48:07] <greycat> johnr_: at first glance it *looks* like the argument of open_generic() is quoted properly.
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2459[18:48:23] <leba2> greycat: sir, do you have any epxerience with ntp by chance?=
2460[18:48:25] <leba2> ?
2461[18:48:31] <johnr_> greycat: perhaps there are "weird characters".
2462[18:48:48] <johnr_> greycat: I can assure you that it calls "n programs".
2463[18:48:57] <greycat> Then again this script is pretty nasty. There may be subtle bugs I can't see in just a few seconds.
2464[18:48:58] <johnr_> greycat: 1 for each space.
2465[18:49:09] <johnr_> greycat: it should never have shipped in Debian.
2466[18:49:14] <johnr_> It's a joke.
2467[18:49:15] *** Joins: gmh (glenn@replaced-ip)
2468[18:49:31] <johnr_> I don't get how the Linux kernel has at least some quality and then the user land is completely broken.
2469[18:49:43] <johnr_> It's like shitting on the statue of liberty.
2470[18:49:44] <jelly> leba2: "ntpq -p localhost" says what precisely?
2471[18:50:25] <jelly> johnr_: cut the commentary and stick to tech, please
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2476[18:51:05] <jelly> don't want other users to think wanton ranting is useful or welcome
2477[18:51:19] <greycat> In any case, file a bug report if there isn't one already.
2478[18:51:22] *** Parts: BadCodSmell (~BadCodSme@replaced-ip)
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2480[18:52:10] *** Quits: lukaso666 (~lukaso666@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2481[18:52:27] <johnr_> jelly: apparently Debian needs someone to explain how bad it is.
2482[18:52:42] <johnr_> Clearly, Debian has nobody who checks quality.
2483[18:52:43] <greycat> The correct vector for such explanations is to file a bug report.
2484[18:53:08] <johnr_> greycat: there is a bug report, but it was closed without a fix.
2485[18:53:09] *** Quits: philipballew (~philip@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2486[18:53:10] <babilen> johnr_: This has very little to do with Debian. Please file a bug report in which you describe the technical problems you encountered and use a different tool in the interim.
2487[18:53:10] <leba2> jelly: aside the 127.127.1.0, I'm getting 4 other addresses, and one of them has an *, which means it's working, it's getting sync-ed from internet. Yet the -"ignored"- errors in ntp service status are still there, unless I simply restart ntp service.
2488[18:53:19] <jelly> preferably with patches attached
2489[18:53:27] <johnr_> greycat: so, someone should have stepped up and fired the maintainer.
2490[18:53:36] <johnr_> But that never happens in "open-source".
2491[18:53:48] <johnr_> Because everyone is political as hell.
2492[18:53:55] <johnr_> Nobody can ever do something wrong.
2493[18:54:02] <johnr_> Because then perhaps the volunteers leave.
2494[18:54:06] <johnr_> Boohooh.
2495[18:54:10] <jelly> leba2: "systemctl status ntp" just shows a couple lines of the log, I think -- does not necessarily mean much
2496[18:54:14] <babilen> johnr_: Drop it please. If you want help then stick to technical issues. Link the bug report and be clear in which you want this channel to do.
2497[18:54:18] <johnr_> That's what is wrong.
2498[18:55:05] <babilen> *in which way
2499[18:55:15] <johnr_> babilen: people are computers too. In this case these particular computers are broken.
2500[18:55:47] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o jelly
2501[18:55:48] *** jelly sets mode: +q *!*@80.61.8.240
2502[18:55:49] *** ChanServ sets mode: -o jelly
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2504[18:56:21] <jelly> johnr_: no more whining. Please cool down for 10 minutes, and try something constructive afterwards.
2505[18:56:36] <babilen> johnr_: Please come back when you want to discuss technical issues. Issues that this channel can actually help you to address.
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2508[18:58:17] <cybrNaut> jelly, SynrG: thanks for the feedback regarding bitlbee versions. Since there is no backport available, i'm not going to press things.. i'll just wait for stretch to become stable.
2509[18:58:20] <jelly> It's normal to get frustrated with buggy software, but fixing is better than assigning blame. (Re)opening bug reports and sending patches if possible.
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2517[19:03:59] *** eir sets mode: -bo *!*@185.140.114.137 eir
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2523[19:05:34] <foxmask> o/
2524[19:06:10] <foxmask> I dont find a page that show us the most used scripting language use by package on debian
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2526[19:06:21] <foxmask> used*
2527[19:06:27] <greycat> I would bet it's sh.
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2529[19:07:06] <babilen> Probably .. but I am not aware that such a page exist. Did you find it before, foxmask ? Or are you just interested in some statistics?
2530[19:07:27] <leba2> jelly: I used "systemctl status ntp -l"
2531[19:07:55] <greycat> I don't think the package database has enough metadata to calculate such a statistic. There are going to be *way* too many little auxiliary shell scripts running around everywhere with no explicit dependency because sh is in "required".
2532[19:08:00] <foxmask> babilen: i tried to finbd one
2533[19:08:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1677
2534[19:08:03] <foxmask> find*
2535[19:08:29] <babilen> foxmask: I'd be suprised if it exists
2536[19:08:30] <foxmask> babilen: but if you know a way to get those stats ; why not :)
2537[19:08:37] <babilen> I don't
2538[19:08:40] <foxmask> ok
2539[19:08:52] <jelly> foxmask: go unpack all the packages, find the #! files and make some stats. Pronto!
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2541[19:09:00] <babilen> Install everything and take it from there
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2545[19:09:16] <jelly> (spoiler: you can't install everything)
2546[19:09:25] <foxmask> hehe
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2551[19:11:03] <babilen> You could, however, download everything, unpack them to a temporary location and analyse the package content
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2554[19:11:25] <babilen> Are the classifiers available that GitHub uses for their language statistics?
2555[19:11:25] <greycat> Yes, this is conceivable, albeit a massive waste of bandwidth.
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2562[19:12:53] <babilen> I downloaded all of Wikipedia in all languages for a project .. if you need those numbes, you need them. It would take time and bandwidth, but it's a way to achieve the goal.
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2571[19:16:53] <jelly> foxmask: replaced-url
2572[19:17:12] <foxmask> jelly: thanks
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2575[19:17:42] <jelly> focusing on source, not the resulting binary packages
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2581[19:18:19] <babilen> Fantastic :)
2582[19:18:55] <johnr_> If I open a bug saying that the program has no specification which can be implemented, do you think anyone would care?
2583[19:19:07] <johnr_> xdg-open opens a file or URL in the user's preferred application. If a URL is provided the URL will be opened in the user's preferred web browser. If a file is provided the file will be opened in the preferred application for files of that type. xdg-open supports file, ftp, http and https URLs. xdg-open is for use inside a desktop session only. It is not recommended to use xdg-open as root.
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2586[19:19:30] <johnr_> How can a computer every know what a user's preferred application is?
2587[19:19:39] <johnr_> It cannot, so this program has no semantics.
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2589[19:19:57] <babilen> johnr_: I think that you would have to be more specific about the points in which that goal hasn't been met or in which the behaviour was buggy
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2592[19:20:18] <johnr_> babilen: I can make a proof that it is impossible to fullfill this specification.
2593[19:20:49] <babilen> johnr_: There is little point in arguing that the ultimate goal (omniscience) cannot be implement as that is not helpful in addressing errors in the heuristics
2594[19:21:01] *** Joins: SCHAAP137 (~dorian@replaced-ip)
2595[19:21:08] <jelly> johnr_: if you've found a bug in the specs, tell #freedesktop
2596[19:21:13] <johnr_> babilen: that's not what the man page says, does it?
2597[19:21:19] <johnr_> babilen: it doesn't say that it uses heuristics.
2598[19:21:26] <johnr_> babilen: it says that is implement omniscience.
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2601[19:22:10] <johnr_> it implements*
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2603[19:22:34] <babilen> johnr_: The xdg-open <-> user brain interface has not yet been formalised. There is no point in arguing that it is hard for a program to decide what a user "prefers". It is a best effort approach on heuristics of which the user can influence a number by installing certain programs and making certain choices.
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2605[19:22:53] <babilen> If you have a patch for the manpage then please send that.
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2607[19:23:08] <johnr_> babilen: it's only someone who is retarded would come up with and it takes an equally big idiot to ship it.
2608[19:23:13] <babilen> I'd argue that most people would understand that a program can't really tell what their preferences are.
2609[19:23:20] <johnr_> babilen: that is my opinion on it.
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2611[19:23:25] <johnr_> babilen: you might have a different one.
2612[19:23:56] <johnr_> It should say that it uses the preferences set via API SetMyPreferences, or whatever.
2613[19:24:16] <babilen> johnr_: Please stop allegations. I don't understand what you expect us (i.e. #debian) to do. There is little point in arguing semantics. If you want something to change then file a reasonable and detailed bug report (with patches would be great) and it will be looked at.
2614[19:25:03] <babilen> The preference is communicated by a number of explicit and implicit choices the user made. This is what makes it so hard to implement this correct and what makes the script so horrible.
2615[19:25:06] <johnr_> babilen: my recommendation is to rewrite the manpage to document what the program actually does or to get rid of the program completely. Would that be something which is of interest?
2616[19:25:34] <johnr_> Guessing only leads to misery.
2617[19:25:44] <johnr_> I thought only newbies didn't know that.
2618[19:26:14] <johnr_> I wonder whether the author of xdg-open is actually a good engineer. I am going to guess "no".
2619[19:26:19] <babilen> If you found a way in which the script could perform its, ultimately futile, job in a better way then lets address this. There is little point in whining or calling people who developed or shipped that script "retarded" (and that is a *very* offensive term to use and I would be happy if you could refrain from doing that)
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2621[19:26:40] <johnr_> babilen: see? We fundamentally disagree.
2622[19:26:46] <johnr_> babilen: you think it's worth saving.
2623[19:26:50] <babilen> So, lets move on. There is no point in pursuing this further unless you want to discuss actual technical problems.
2624[19:26:54] <johnr_> babilen: I think the very point of the program is flawed.
2625[19:26:55] <johnr_> babilen: OK
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2629[19:27:37] <greycat> johnr_: then stop using it.
2630[19:27:37] <johnr_> babilen: have you ever read replaced-url
2631[19:27:47] <babilen> I have
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2633[19:27:53] <babilen> What about it?
2634[19:27:55] <johnr_> babilen: one of the rules seems particularly applicable.
2635[19:28:08] <babilen> Could you be more specific?
2636[19:28:16] <babilen> (in everything you say)
2637[19:28:19] <johnr_> babilen: #3
2638[19:28:21] <johnr_> babilen: #4
2639[19:28:48] <babilen> What about it? What do you want to happen?
2640[19:29:20] <babilen> What is it that you want #debian (or the Debian project if such a thing exist as a single entity) to actually do?
2641[19:29:21] <johnr_> babilen: as a user, I would like to see the very notion of xfg-open to be removed from the system and replaced by a mime type system by default.
2642[19:29:22] *** Joins: Y04NN (~y04nn@replaced-ip)
2643[19:29:29] <babilen> What is that you want to achieve by talking in here?
2644[19:29:30] <greycat> Then stop using xdg-open.
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2646[19:29:50] <babilen> Nobody forces you to use that program .. move on, use something else
2647[19:30:11] *** Joins: Gr33nW0lf (~Gr33nW0lf@replaced-ip)
2648[19:30:24] <johnr_> OK, new question: which program actually has a semantics in this area? "see"?
2649[19:30:51] <johnr_> Which program is intended to be used and/or configured by users?
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2651[19:31:34] <johnr_> I just want to read a manpage and based on that configure the system to open files in some kind of sane fashion. I don't particularly care about the death trap xdg-open.
2652[19:31:48] <babilen> Why don't you just use the programs you want to use directly? You should be perfectly capable of deciding for yourself what you want to use to open certain file types.
2653[19:31:52] <johnr_> Preferabyl in a system wide fashion.
2654[19:32:00] <johnr_> Preferably*
2655[19:32:12] <greycat> I don't even know what you mean by "open files". Are you double-clicking them in some kind of GUI file manager application? If so, then that GUI file manager app is where you would configure stuff.
2656[19:32:19] <johnr_> babilen: because there exists such a thing as a mail client.
2657[19:32:24] <jelly> johnr_: maybe there isn't one at all. Maybe having per-user preferred mime apps is a work in progress.
2658[19:32:25] <johnr_> babilen: with random attachments.
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2660[19:32:43] <babilen> What is the *actual* problem you want to fix? Be as specific as you can be!
2661[19:32:44] <johnr_> I could write my own program which does this.
2662[19:32:53] <babilen> Please do
2663[19:32:57] <greycat> When people mail me an attachment, 99% of the time I delete it, because it's spam. In the other cases, I save it to a file, USE MY HUMAN BRAIN to figure out what to do with this file, and run some appropriate command.
2664[19:33:10] <babilen> indeed
2665[19:33:21] <johnr_> babilen: a user gets random attachments; think ".doc files which are actually PDF files".
2666[19:33:36] <johnr_> babilen: the user wants to push on "open file" and not care about what file it "really" is.
2667[19:33:37] <greycat> Delete it. It's rubbish.
2668[19:34:01] <babilen> That's not a specific problem. Which mail client? Which file? Which program do you want "the mail client" to use? Which program has been used instead?
2669[19:34:03] <greycat> That user is a spam target. You as the sysadmin are going to end up scrubbing their workstation and possibly the rest of the network.
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2671[19:34:15] <johnr_> greycat: the files are desirable.
2672[19:34:24] <greycat> Then why are they MISNAMED?
2673[19:34:32] <johnr_> greycat: because idiots send them
2674[19:34:41] <greycat> What kind of idiotic hypothetical scenario are you constructing?
2675[19:34:44] <johnr_> greycat: do you have a cure against stupidity?
2676[19:34:50] <johnr_> greycat: it's called the real world.
2677[19:35:08] <johnr_> babilen: thunderbird
2678[19:35:11] <johnr_> babilen: or icedove
2679[19:35:19] <greycat> I don't see how an unintelligent software program can be expected to work around "This is a file that is named x.doc but is really a PDF."
2680[19:35:20] <babilen> johnr_: There really is no point in talking about this in general. xdg-open is a best effort program that'll get some things right and makes mistakes .. if there are actual problems then be specific about them so that they can be addressed.
2681[19:35:26] <johnr_> babilen: which has its own mechanisms for this binding problem.
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2683[19:35:33] <johnr_> babilen: which also don't work.
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2686[19:35:50] <jelly> greycat: worse, you don't want it to work around that automatically as it's a whole new attack surface.
2687[19:35:55] <johnr_> There are tons of programs which do something like xdg-open, but they are all broken.
2688[19:36:05] <greycat> Your users are broken. Fix them.
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2690[19:36:19] <babilen> johnr_: Seriously, what are you trying to achieve by talking about this in here?
2691[19:36:24] <jelly> see the recent imagemagick security fixes and the published workarounds.
2692[19:36:40] <cyphaw> Hello
2693[19:36:42] <Iridos> <johnr_> greycat: do you have a cure against stupidity? <--- you are just proposing software as a cure to stupidity... but it isn't... education may be
2694[19:36:44] <cyphaw> I just installed debian with mate, but I con't find a way to configure the contents of the menu bar (on mint and ubuntu mate, I just right click it and there is "edit menus"). anyone knows how it's done there?
2695[19:36:46] <johnr_> greycat: mimetypes alone would already fix it.
2696[19:37:10] <johnr_> mime-open might work.
2697[19:37:12] <greycat> No they wouldn't. MIME types go by the file extension, not by mind-reading the sender or by byte analysis of the content.
2698[19:37:29] <johnr_> greycat: ok, well, I want byte analysis tooling.
2699[19:37:36] <greycat> Then write that yourself.
2700[19:37:38] <greycat> It does not exist.
2701[19:37:43] <jelly> johnr_: no you don't, it's a security risk
2702[19:37:48] <greycat> Hint: Microsoft Internet Explorer tried that.
2703[19:37:52] <babilen> johnr_: What do you want #debian to do? What would you like to achieve in the next hour of discussion?
2704[19:38:12] <johnr_> babilen: well, it seems that we have a solution to the problem.
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2706[19:38:17] <greycat> You want to be as secure as Microsoft Internet Explorer.
2707[19:38:19] <johnr_> babilen: the solution is that it doesn't exist yet.
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2709[19:38:29] <johnr_> babilen: which you could also have read.
2710[19:38:47] <johnr_> jelly: and why is it a security risk? Do you think I cannot write a secure program?
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2712[19:38:57] <babilen> johnr_: So, what do you want us to do? What do you intend to achieve? What do you want to work on?
2713[19:39:00] <jelly> johnr_: yes.
2714[19:39:02] <johnr_> jelly: I won't write it in C, no worries.
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2718[19:40:07] <johnr_> babilen: well, it would have been nice if you would now work 24/7 to add such a future, but the chance of that happening is zero. So, I think we are done regarding this subject.
2719[19:40:10] <jelly> johnr_: to be more precise, I don't think anyone in particular can or needs to write another file(1), and that it should not be invoked on untrusted input.
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2721[19:40:40] <johnr_> jelly: ok, so you are saying that "file" was also written by <word you don't want me to use>s?
2722[19:40:44] <johnr_> Great
2723[19:41:00] <babilen> johnr_: Do you really expect the 1653 people in this channel to now devote their life on fixing something you haven't even specified exactly?
2724[19:41:09] <jelly> johnr_: there have been repeated issues with similar tools, including file itself, various elf parsing utils, imagemagick is the latest example
2725[19:41:19] <johnr_> babilen: apparenty a rewrite of file would be appropriate.
2726[19:41:31] <johnr_> babilen: seems fairly well specified.
2727[19:41:39] <babilen> How does the current discussion help in achieving that goal?
2728[19:41:41] <jelly> johnr_: you don't want to read bits and guess how to interpret an untrusted file.
2729[19:41:43] <johnr_> jelly: by this logic I can never ever call file again.
2730[19:41:57] <babilen> Well .. I'm done, there is nothing to work on
2731[19:42:08] <jelly> !next
2732[19:42:08] <dpkg> Another happy customer leaves the building.
2733[19:42:12] <johnr_> jelly: or should I just run file as a different user?
2734[19:42:13] <greycat> file(1) does not execute haphazrdly chosen programs. It just prints HUMAN READABLE words trying to describe its GUESS about the content.
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2737[19:42:20] <greycat> It is up to a human to make a decision.
2738[19:42:20] <babilen> (haven't even seen the alleged bug report that was closed)
2739[19:42:29] <johnr_> greycat: that's not what jelly suggested
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2742[19:42:55] <johnr_> greycat: jelly suggested that running file on all possible bit strings would result in probably a kernel exploit.
2743[19:43:02] <jelly> johnr_: nope
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2746[19:43:11] <johnr_> jelly: ok, then what did you mean?
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2749[19:43:24] <jelly> johnr_: you don't want to read bits and guess how to interpret an untrusted file.
2750[19:43:38] <johnr_> jelly: you said "and that it should not be invoked on untrusted input"
2751[19:43:43] *** Joins: cypherman (~santiago@replaced-ip)
2752[19:43:45] <jelly> same thing.
2753[19:43:48] <johnr_> jelly: how else do you want to explain that?
2754[19:43:54] *** Joins: Gogo123 (~OS-22735@replaced-ip)
2755[19:44:08] <jelly> no mention of "kernel"
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2757[19:44:24] <sonne> greetings!
2758[19:44:34] <sonne> does debian have by default anything similar to ubuntu's apparmor?
2759[19:44:35] <johnr_> jelly: no, but there are tons of local privilege escapes.
2760[19:44:40] <Iridos> as I am just reading backlog... how did you call xdg-open that it opened a browser multiple times for a file name with spaces?
2761[19:45:04] <johnr_> Iridos: xdg-open a\ file\ here.pdf
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2763[19:45:53] <Iridos> seems to work fine here
2764[19:45:55] <Gogo123> !gamma
2765[19:45:55] <dpkg> [gamma] the third letter of the greek alphabet or a high energy/low wavelength (since they're the same thing, ask me about Planck's law) photon
2766[19:46:09] <Iridos> it chooses chromium
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2768[19:46:26] <johnr_> Iridos: obviously, it doesn't work in all cases.
2769[19:46:30] <greycat> Iridos: apparently you also have to do it on a text console with DISPLAY unset
2770[19:46:36] <johnr_> Iridos: you are probably running it in a DE.
2771[19:46:44] <greycat> Iridos: good luck getting him to give you an actionable bug report
2772[19:46:45] <jelly> where it's meant to be run
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2774[19:47:06] <johnr_> jelly: then there should be a check for that and it should call exit 1.
2775[19:47:06] <Gogo123> /msg NickServ REGISTER
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2778[19:47:14] <johnr_> jelly: untrusted input, remember?
2779[19:47:14] <jelly> > xdg-open is for use inside a desktop session only.
2780[19:47:22] <johnr_> jelly: then, why is it on my PATH?
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2783[19:47:47] <jelly> johnr_: why are you using it in a way that's specifically NOT supported at all?
2784[19:47:50] <Gogo123> Can someone help me on Gamma Priv escalation ?
2785[19:47:54] <jelly> and expecting it to work?
2786[19:47:55] <Iridos> also works fine on the console I get with ctrl-alt-f1
2787[19:48:03] <jelly> johnr_: dd is also in your path.
2788[19:48:41] <johnr_> jelly: my opinion is that programs should know the environment for which they have defined behaviour.
2789[19:48:51] <johnr_> jelly: your opinion is that they should not.
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2792[19:49:01] <johnr_> jelly: another point of disagreement.
2793[19:49:09] <jelly> johnr_: I don't care about opinions in here, /j #debian-offtopic for that
2794[19:49:15] <johnr_> jelly: my opinion is the opinion of an engineer; yours, I have no idea.
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2796[19:49:38] <jelly> johnr_: I care about fixing issues or filing a report.
2797[19:50:05] <johnr_> jelly: it's all about opinions, if you look at the above exchange of ideas.
2798[19:50:07] <jelly> you don't seem to want to do either
2799[19:50:24] <Iridos> johnr_, but it works for me on a console
2800[19:50:26] <greycat> johnr_: decide whether you think the man page is wrong, or whether xdg-open's behavior is wrong, and file a bug report accordingly
2801[19:50:28] <johnr_> jelly: but it's clear that we don't agree for me, and like I wanted to do before, let's end it.
2802[19:50:35] <jelly> Gogo123: I think you're in the wrong place
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2804[19:50:47] <johnr_> greycat: I think the manpage is the real mistake.
2805[19:51:15] <johnr_> greycat: would anyone care about that or would it just be closes saying "we have a different opinion. Bye troll."?
2806[19:51:18] <jelly> Gogo123: this channel is for users of Debian needing tech support
2807[19:51:18] <johnr_> closed*
2808[19:51:31] <Iridos> I bet you did something stupid and now blame it on xdg-open
2809[19:51:47] <greycat> johnr_: only one way to find out
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2813[19:52:32] <Iridos> I would have called it "unusual" instead of "stupid", but I don't see a real point in granting you the politeness you don't grant others
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2816[19:53:02] <jelly> Iridos: tbh he didn't call anyone present retarded or stupid
2817[19:53:26] <jelly> just the absent maintainers, devs and their product
2818[19:53:29] <johnr_> Iridos: if you give me 5000,- USD when I am right, do you still have a big mouth?
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2820[19:53:29] <Iridos> sorry. didn't know it was supposed to be better if the person wasn't present
2821[19:53:49] <johnr_> Iridos: I will get you a beautiful error report for that.
2822[19:54:12] <johnr_> Iridos: otherwise, refrain from doubting me in the future, thanks.
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2824[19:54:29] <Iridos> johnr_, it's hardly possible to have a bigger mouth than you did in the last hour or so... but that is pretty off-topic, so maybe we drop it
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2827[19:55:01] <Iridos> I didn't doubt you, I said I bet if we ever get to the reason it'll be you
2828[19:55:08] <unborn> Iridos: i've aint been polite always to people and I was very very wrong.. no matter how they talk to you.. being always polite from my side should be always on. That is difference between 'them' and you...I did learned my lesson on this.
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2830[19:55:20] <johnr_> Iridos: that's the same.
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2833[19:55:45] <johnr_> Iridos: and the same holds for other users. It looks rather <not so intelligent> to make claims about subjects you haven't spent time on as recent as the person asking the question.
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2836[19:56:07] <johnr_> Anyway, thank you #debian for telling me that the answer to my question is "do it yourself".
2837[19:56:08] <Iridos> no. but that's moot because you're not really interested in error analysis, but in bitching
2838[19:56:11] <johnr_> Closure is good.
2839[19:56:34] <Humanoid> "dpkg-query -W -f '- ${Origin} - ${Package}\n'" only shows blanks for the origin. I'm trying to find all the remaining packages that came from deb-multimedia.org.
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2841[19:56:41] <Iridos> don't you dare doubt me… what you said is broken worked here as far as you were able to describe it
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2843[19:57:00] <Humanoid> I already removed all the packages that show up in "dpkg-query -l | grep dmo", I'm looking for other ways to find remaining packages that came from deb-multimedia.
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2845[19:57:07] <johnr_> Iridos: obviously your configuration is different, because I said it ran "lynx".
2846[19:57:16] <johnr_> Iridos: so, your debugging skills are worth negative money.
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2848[19:57:30] <Iridos> speak for yourself... oh, you did
2849[19:57:30] <johnr_> Iridos: really, why would you ever say "for me it is running chromium"?
2850[19:57:31] <greycat> johnr_: You must include enough information in your bug report for someone else to reproduce the behavior.
2851[19:57:50] <johnr_> greycat: which is why I made the offer to Iridos.
2852[19:57:51] <Iridos> it obviously wasn't running chromium when I ran it from the console
2853[19:57:57] <Iridos> your reading comprehension is lacking
2854[19:58:06] <abrotman> Ugh, why doesn't bash understand %HOME% ?!
2855[19:58:11] <johnr_> Iridos: so, what did it run?
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2857[19:58:21] <jelly> abrotman: itym %USERDIR%
2858[19:58:31] <abrotman> I'm old :(
2859[19:58:32] <abrotman> :)
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2862[19:58:46] <jelly> !be an analogy barbie
2863[19:58:47] <dpkg> editing config files by hand is so HARD!
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2865[19:59:15] <johnr_> Iridos: anyway, I am going to assume that you don't take the offer?
2866[19:59:23] *** Joins: cliluw (~cliluw@replaced-ip)
2867[19:59:30] <johnr_> Iridos: I don't need your help.
2868[19:59:33] <abrotman> jelly: according to what I'm lookking at, we were both wrong :)
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2870[19:59:50] <johnr_> Thanks mostly to greycat.
2871[19:59:52] <johnr_> Bye
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2876[20:01:52] <Iridos> nobody needed your bitching?
2877[20:02:03] <Iridos> seems it ran replaced-url
2878[20:02:05] <jelly> they're gone
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2881[20:02:25] <n4rwoo> Hey guys, do you see any problem reinstalling openbox from the source if I already have openbox up running? Id like to make small changes to it but they are hardcoded ones..
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2883[20:02:34] <Iridos> seems I just wasted some minutes figuring what it actually ran
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2888[20:04:29] <jelly> !package rebuild
2889[20:04:29] <dpkg> 1) Add a <deb-src> line for your current release to your sources.list 2) aptitude update; aptitude install build-essential devscripts fakeroot; aptitude -R build-dep packagename 3) as any user, apt-get source packagename 4) cd packagename-version/; ask me about <debian/rules>; 5) dpkg-buildpackage -uc -us 6) as root, dpkg -i ../packagename-version.deb. Ask me about <debian/rules>, <nocheck>, <nostrip>, <apt-get source>.
2890[20:04:38] <jelly> n4rwoo: you may want to try ^^
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2894[20:06:16] <n4rwoo> jelly: I guess.. ^^
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2896[20:07:21] <n4rwoo> just to make sure is there any difference between installing via apt-get or by make-install?
2897[20:07:51] <jelly> yes, there is almost always some difference
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2910[20:12:25] <Iridos> n4rwoo, you have to increase version number in the changelog if you use those instructions
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2933[20:26:53] <sparky4> damn
2934[20:27:02] <sparky4> deleting xorg.conf fixes the xserver
2935[20:27:12] <sparky4> device is not found i did do this
2936[20:27:26] <sparky4> sudo aptitude -r install linux-headers-$(uname -r|sed 's,[^-]*-[^-]*-,,') nvidia-kernel-dkms
2937[20:27:36] <sparky4> i used nvidia-xconfig
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2942[20:31:25] <abrotman> fixes is a bad thing?
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2946[20:32:38] <babilen> sparky4: nvidia-xconfig is neither needed nor have I seen many happy users of it
2947[20:32:47] * jelly wonders whether someone screwed up the wiki page again
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2949[20:32:55] <sparky4> babilen: i noiced ^^;
2950[20:33:06] <babilen> jelly: It always happens
2951[20:33:14] <jelly> IT KEEPS HAPPENING
2952[20:33:14] <sparky4> i should copy my xorg config from compy 4 and edit it
2953[20:33:22] <sparky4> compy4 uses a nvidia card too
2954[20:33:32] <sparky4> i told you dawg
2955[20:33:32] <babilen> Why do you need a xorg.conf at all?
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2957[20:34:03] <jelly> sparky4: a small /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/ snippet to set the driver ought to do it
2958[20:34:09] <abrotman> compy4?
2959[20:34:23] <sparky4> yeah my main pc uses a geforce 6200 fx
2960[20:34:26] <sparky4> ww
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2963[20:34:36] <sparky4> jelly: yes
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2967[20:35:20] <babilen> sparky4: replaced-url
2968[20:35:30] <jelly> that older one probably works with nouveau in jessie. a GT730 won't work well with nouveau in jessie, but the one in stretch makes my GT720 reasonably stable (I don't have to nvidia driver)
2969[20:35:44] <babilen> jelly: I guess we want to switch "automatic" with "manual" in there .. it sort of sounds as if the former is better
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2975[20:36:21] <jelly> I usually just give people the oneliner and try to ignore the wiki page
2976[20:36:27] <jaggz> what's the nvidia support channel ?
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2978[20:36:52] <jaggz> jessie bpo only has nvidia-cuda-toolkit 6.5, but I need at least 7 for recent blender builds
2979[20:36:56] <jelly> there... isn't one?
2980[20:37:19] <jaggz> testing/unstable have the versions I need
2981[20:37:53] <jaggz> maybe I should just go to testing
2982[20:37:59] <sparky4> device 0?
2983[20:37:59] <jelly> I'm not sure how much pain backporting cuda would be
2984[20:38:01] <sparky4> or device 1?
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2987[20:38:17] <jaggz> nvidia provides ubuntu packages.. but not debian..
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2989[20:39:23] <jelly> sparky4: where do you see device 0 and 1?
2990[20:39:27] *** Quits: feal (~fiel@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2991[20:39:53] <jaggz> jelly, am I about to mess up my system by switching to testing (from stable)? *shiver*
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2993[20:40:04] <jelly> probably :-)
2994[20:40:11] <babilen> dpkg: tum
2995[20:40:11] <dpkg> «echo 'APT::Default-Release "testing";' >> /etc/apt/apt.conf», edit sources.list, copy your non-security testing lines and change one set to unstable, then apt-get update. Use apt-get -t unstable install foo; to install foo from unstable rather than testing as usual. WARNING to SYNAPTIC users: Synaptic ignores Default-Release: set Preferences->Distribution.
2996[20:40:14] <babilen> jaggz: ^
2997[20:40:15] <sparky4> jelly on compy4 the device section has Device0 selected
2998[20:40:20] <sparky4> in xorg.conf
2999[20:40:39] <jelly> sparky4: ignore all that, just do what the wiki page says
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3001[20:40:45] <babilen> sparky4: You just need the oneliner in replaced-url
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3003[20:40:51] <jaggz> babilen, thanks.. do I ignore all the jessie lines I have -- just do the stable lines?
3004[20:41:14] <sparky4> ok i will add echo -e 'Section "Device"\n\tIdentifier "My GPU"\n\tDriver "nvidia"\nEndSection' > /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/20-nvidia.conf
3005[20:41:14] <jaggz> oh I don't have any stable lines.. they're all jessie
3006[20:41:17] <babilen> jaggz: You would be left with testing and unstable entries
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3008[20:41:43] <jelly> dpkg, jessie->stretch
3009[20:41:43] <dpkg> First, understand that testing is a pre-release distribution without timely security support and that you will have a bumpy ride; ask me about <moving target> <testing> <testing security>. From /etc/apt/sources.list, remove stable-specific lines like jessie-updates and backports, and change jessie to stretch. apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade. If you feel you need more instructions, perhaps you should wait a while.
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3011[20:41:46] <jelly> first, I guess
3012[20:41:59] <sparky4> file made and it contains that stuff
3013[20:42:02] <sparky4> now what do i do?
3014[20:42:09] <jelly> restart X (or gdm r
3015[20:42:14] <sparky4> ok
3016[20:42:17] <jelly> or kdm or whatever *dm you have)
3017[20:42:18] *** Joins: kpease (~kpease@replaced-ip)
3018[20:42:29] <jelly> or reboot
3019[20:42:32] <sparky4> i am going to wait for watcom to finish
3020[20:42:49] <jelly> poor watcom, what is it doing
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3023[20:43:07] <jaggz> ugh.. "you WILL have a bumpy ride"
3024[20:43:11] <sparky4> compiling
3025[20:43:16] <sparky4> compiling a compiler w
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3028[20:44:23] <jaggz> jelly, wish I had the means to do it in a little image mirror of my system :)
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3032[20:45:23] <greycat> jaggz: you can set up a chroot, do a debootstrap inside it, use dpkg --get-selection and --set-selection to pull in all the pacakges from the "outer" system, and then do the upgrade in the chroot
3033[20:45:34] <greycat> It won't test booting, but it'll test most everything else.
3034[20:45:37] <jelly> jaggz: I guess you can set up a chroot with stretch instead, but making nvidia userspace bits is going to be interesting
3035[20:46:13] <jaggz> how will --get-selection access the outside-of-chroot information? debootstrap gets the needed files?
3036[20:46:32] *** Quits: shinnya (~shinnya@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3037[20:46:38] <jaggz> okay.. don't worry about this.. I'll use CPU computing for my blender work for now :)
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3039[20:46:44] <jaggz> instead of gpu
3040[20:46:45] <iio7> I am trying to make a group for iptables that cannot access the Internet following this replaced-url
3041[20:46:52] *** Quits: DammitJim (~DammitJim@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
3042[20:46:52] *** Quits: fossrox (~fossrox@replaced-ip) (Quit: Free Software, Free Hardware, Free Culture, Free Spectrum)
3043[20:46:55] <iio7> I have this in my sudoers "%sudo ALL=(:no-internet) NOPASSWD: ALL"
3044[20:47:02] *** Joins: ploc (c1213887@replaced-ip)
3045[20:47:24] <iio7> What am I missing?
3046[20:47:28] *** Joins: kpease (~kpease@replaced-ip)
3047[20:47:30] <jaggz> iio7, ping is internet?
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3049[20:47:45] *** Quits: Ad1_RN (~Ad1_RnR@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3050[20:47:49] <jaggz> maybe don't use -g no-internet? (i've never used such a thing.. first time seeing it)
3051[20:47:58] <ploc> hi, does anyone know if backports are updated from testing ? I'm looking for ansible 2.1.1: replaced-url
3052[20:48:00] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1671
3053[20:48:11] <iio7> jaggz, I thing you're missing the point.
3054[20:48:18] <iio7> thing -> think
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3056[20:48:43] <jaggz> most likely
3057[20:48:59] <jaggz> oh I see
3058[20:49:02] <mo1991reg> I have a intel hd 4600 graphics card running debian jessie. All seems fine on the debian end, but when I use vmware with a win7 guest, I get a no 3dfx error when vmware starts, and when win7 guest is idle i still get the vmware-vmx process taking 20 % cpu usage. Any thoughts? Is my hd4600 driver too old?
3059[20:49:36] <iio7> It's the sudo part that isn't allowing me to run the command.
3060[20:49:42] <jelly> iio7: does "sudo -u foo -g no-internet" work?
3061[20:50:12] <jelly> are you a member of sudo group? :-)
3062[20:50:13] <iio7> jelly, no same problem.
3063[20:50:17] <iio7> jes
3064[20:50:19] <iio7> yes
3065[20:50:38] <jelly> did you log off and back on after adding yourself to the sudo group, if you added that recently?
3066[20:51:00] <iio7> jelly, no I just started a new console on my desktop.
3067[20:51:18] <jelly> that won't work, you need to log on again
3068[20:51:22] <`Kevin> iio7: is no-internet defined as a group in sudoers? if not thats the issue
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3071[20:51:33] *** Quits: sparky4 (~sparky4@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3072[20:51:35] <iio7> jelly, thank you very much, you saved my day!
3073[20:51:56] <iio7> It's working perfectly now!
3074[20:52:05] <jelly> (additional groups are only added at login time)
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3088[20:58:23] <ploc> hi, does anyone know if backports are updated from testing ? I'm looking for ansible 2.1.1: replaced-url
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3091[21:00:05] <missmbob> ,v checkbackport
3092[21:00:06] <judd> No package named 'checkbackport' was found in amd64.
3093[21:00:14] *** Joins: crayon (~user@replaced-ip)
3094[21:00:21] <missmbob> ,checkbackport ansible
3095[21:00:22] <judd> Backporting package ansible in sid→jessie/amd64: all build-dependencies satisfied using jessie.
3096[21:00:31] <missmbob> !tell ploc about ssb
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3098[21:00:37] *** zero_to_rocket is now known as nibble_zero
3099[21:01:00] <Brigo> ploc, yes, they are
3100[21:01:00] <Brigo> they are ports from testing to stable
3101[21:01:32] <Brigo> ,v ansible
3102[21:01:33] <judd> Package: ansible on amd64 -- wheezy-backports: 1.7.2+dfsg-2~bpo70+1; jessie: 1.7.2+dfsg-2; jessie-backports: 2.1.0.0-1~bpo8+1; sid: 2.1.1.0-1; stretch: 2.1.1.0-1
3103[21:02:35] *** Quits: Satyajit (Satyajit@replaced-ip##) (Quit: ##replaced-url
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3105[21:02:37] *** Quits: pauna (pauna@replaced-ip##) (Quit: ##replaced-url
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3114[21:03:19] <ploc> will ansible 2.1.1 be backported to jessie-backports ?
3115[21:03:32] *** Joins: ompaul (~ompaul@replaced-ip)
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3118[21:03:55] <Brigo> ploc, i think so, just ask the maintainer or check the package web page
3119[21:04:40] <Brigo> ploc, replaced-url
3120[21:05:28] *** Quits: juan1 (~juantelez@replaced-ip) (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1)
3121[21:05:36] <ploc> thanks Brigo
3122[21:05:42] <ploc> and bpo means backports ?
3123[21:05:44] *** Joins: juantelez (~juantelez@replaced-ip)
3124[21:05:47] <Brigo> ploc, np :)
3125[21:05:55] *** Joins: DammitJim (~DammitJim@replaced-ip)
3126[21:05:56] <Brigo> ploc, i would guess so :)
3127[21:06:05] <greycat> originally "backports.org" I believe
3128[21:06:12] <Brigo> bpo8 backport debian 8
3129[21:06:21] *** Joins: xyzzymaze (~xyzzy@replaced-ip)
3130[21:06:30] <Brigo> replaced-url
3131[21:06:47] <greycat> replaced-url
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3137[21:09:22] <gamelaster> Hello, is exists a file what doesnt exists, but if I create it, it will be auto executed after start up? thanks
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3139[21:09:57] *** Quits: Y04NN (~y04nn@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3140[21:10:12] <greycat> Is this a riddle?
3141[21:10:24] *** Joins: Y04NN (~y04nn@replaced-ip)
3142[21:10:25] *** Joins: bongazi (~bongozi@replaced-ip)
3143[21:10:31] <greycat> gamelaster: What are you trying to do?
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3145[21:11:02] *** Joins: grimsley (~grimsley@replaced-ip)
3146[21:12:07] <gamelaster> greycat: well, its little complicated. I forgotten password to my Debian server and only access I have is symbolic link to root via Network File Share. I can write only non exists files, i cant read, rewrite or list files.. And this is only idea how to get back my access
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3151[21:14:17] *** Joins: bjonnh (~Bjonnh@replaced-ip)
3152[21:14:19] <bjonnh> Hi
3153[21:14:23] <bongaz> Hello
3154[21:14:27] <bjonnh> Trying to get replaced-url
3155[21:14:28] *** Quits: LtL (~irssi@replaced-ip) (Quit: Lost terminal)
3156[21:14:29] <bjonnh> from US
3157[21:14:38] <bongaz> from UK
3158[21:14:41] <bjonnh> it keeps sending me to an ultra slow gensho.acc.umu.se server
3159[21:14:42] <greycat> Your restrictions make no sense. You've got the root file system of the I-forgot-passwd system NFS-mounted onto another system. On the other system, either root is mapped to nobody (default) or it is mapped to root (based on the no_root_squash setting on the original system). So either you have full root access to the file system, being able to MODIFY file, or you have read-only access to the root file
3160[21:14:48] <greycat> system, not able to create new files.
3161[21:14:54] *** Quits: Y04NN (~y04nn@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3162[21:15:02] <bjonnh> I tried to find the cd-images on the us ftp, but no luck
3163[21:15:09] <bjonnh> I can't bittorrent where I am
3164[21:15:18] *** Joins: Y04NN (~y04nn@replaced-ip)
3165[21:15:42] <greycat> !netinst
3166[21:15:42] <dpkg> extra, extra, read all about it, netinst is a small CD image with which you can install Debian. If, during the installation process you have a working Internet connection, you can install more packages straight away, otherwise, you will have a base install and more packages later. See replaced-url
3167[21:15:56] <bjonnh> yep a netinst…
3168[21:16:11] <bjonnh> I'll try with jigdo
3169[21:16:16] <bjonnh> I didn't see that page before
3170[21:16:31] <greycat> for god's sake, just use replaced-url
3171[21:16:59] <bjonnh> instead of swearing, read what I said ^
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3174[21:17:28] <bjonnh> The cdimage.debian.org redirection brings me to an ultraslow server
3175[21:17:46] <gamelaster> greycat: I know, it's doesn't give a sense,but when I want to open symlink via \\192.168.1.12\music\root, it will say I have no access, but if I copy some file into a root symlink, it will copy (tested) but I cant edit it anymore
3176[21:18:01] <greycat> gamelaster: you are using SAMBA, not NFS.
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3179[21:19:09] <gamelaster> when I do symlink on file, I get the size of file, but I cant copy it or something, access denied..
3180[21:19:22] *** Joins: cyan__ (~cyan@replaced-ip)
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3183[21:20:48] <bjonnh> jigdo solved my problem
3184[21:21:07] <gamelaster> so, I dont get any idea how to bring access back, server have integrated ssd, so I cant manually connect + its contains a important data :/
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3194[21:28:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1677
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3196[21:29:22] *** Quits: Martiini (~Martiini@replaced-ip##) (Quit: Want to be different? Try HydraIRC -> ##replaced-url
3197[21:30:13] <AvatarA> where is this server?
3198[21:30:33] *** Quits: kzimmermann (~gidbsnskh@replaced-ip) (Quit: see ya!)
3199[21:31:38] *** Quits: Rajsun (~TheRaj@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
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3208[21:35:19] <greycat> Today I Learn: jessie bind9 no longer uses the settings in /etc/default/bind9 even though the file is still on my computer.
3209[21:35:56] *** Joins: ChunkzZ (uid98304@replaced-ip)
3210[21:36:04] <greycat> So I guess I'm ... supposed to ... override /lib/systemd/system/bind9.service directly with a custom file in /etc/systemd/system/ ... because yeah, that's so much simpler than editing one line in a shell config file
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3215[21:36:42] <jelly> greycat, only with .service but when init script is used it still reads the file?
3216[21:37:02] <greycat> When would I ever use the init script?
3217[21:37:14] <jelly> when sysvinit is your init
3218[21:39:00] <greycat> P.S. my goal here is to make apt-get update work. It is STILL not working. Same problem that started last week - it hangs on the downloads of files from security.debian.org, as well as a NEW symptom - sometimes it hangs on the downloads of files from ftp.us.debian.org
3219[21:39:19] <greycat> Found a bunch of ipv6 errors in the daemon.log on the resolver system, so I figured I would add -4 to the named options.
3220[21:39:34] <greycat> That... turned out to be challenging.
3221[21:40:18] <greycat> named is now running with -u bind -4, and the IPv6 errors are not occurring right at this moment, but I still can't get an apt-get to work.
3222[21:41:06] *** Quits: b6s3d (~b00s3d@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3223[21:41:32] *** Quits: ki0 (~ki0@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3224[21:41:42] *** Joins: dmpeters63 (~dmpeters6@replaced-ip)
3225[21:42:18] <babilen> replaced-url
3226[21:42:23] <greycat> And I am guessing by the thunderous silence of this channel on the topic today as well as last week that It Is Just Me. :( (Also, my non-workplace hosts are not having this issue.)
3227[21:42:41] <RoyK> greycat: are you on ipv6 only?
3228[21:43:05] <greycat> No, the opposite. Nothing ipv6 works here. Nothing. I don't want any part of it. I am disabling it whenever I see errors related to it.
3229[21:43:10] *** Joins: SPF|Cloud (uid11755@replaced-ip)
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3232[21:43:21] <greycat> Maybe in 10 or 30 years IPv6 will come to this place.
3233[21:44:03] <greycat> Sample error: Aug 14 07:51:11 svr5 named[609]: error (network unreachable) resolving 'debian.org/DNSKEY/IN': 2001:67c:10b8::100#53
3234[21:44:05] <RoyK> ipv4 should be given a shot in the neck
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3238[21:45:12] <Dagger> greycat: we're well past the point where "rage disable everything" is an appropriate response to spotting a v6 address in a log
3239[21:45:18] <format_c> greycat, and because guys like you intervene this way in the hope making things better, but making things worse.
3240[21:45:18] <Dagger> if you actually are having v6 problems, then fix them
3241[21:45:19] <tobiasBora> Hello,
3242[21:45:25] *** Quits: evade (~evade@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
3243[21:45:32] *** Joins: CyberGabber (~CyberGabb@replaced-ip)
3244[21:45:48] <tobiasBora> I have a very annoying bug on my computer : I'm trying to access to my android through MTP (no choice).
3245[21:45:57] <format_c> it's just a prove that you have not properly rolled out dual-stack connectivity, or your provider lacks it
3246[21:45:58] <Dagger> but it's quite possible you aren't, and you're only seeing v6 addresses because the v4 stuff is failing first (and it's trying the v6 second because, hey, why not)
3247[21:45:59] <greycat> format_c: I just want apt-get update (and etc.) to work. Can you help with that? If you can't, then getting rid of many hundreds of IPv6 errors in my daemon.log seemed like a reasonable action to take.
3248[21:46:23] <unborn> greycat: automatic updates works on my end - however I had to enable the cron to get them asap as they are out there.. gui have no problem to install them or notify me of them asap as cron is run and they are out there..
3249[21:46:30] <tobiasBora> Everything works fine (I can read the folders contents) except for a huge folder : my photo folder.
3250[21:46:31] <unborn> - how can I help? :)
3251[21:46:35] <format_c> I'm living in a dual-stack world and apt-get even this IRC session works perfeclty fine.
3252[21:46:40] <format_c> I can try my best
3253[21:46:41] <Dagger> re: apt-get, try `wget <package url>` -- it gives better errors than apt-get does
3254[21:47:16] *** Joins: iiaann (~ian@replaced-ip)
3255[21:47:16] <tobiasBora> I have an error like "error libgmt : could not get object handle" when I access this folder with lot's of pictures in it... Any idea to solve it ?
3256[21:47:42] *** Quits: fealscience (~fiel@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3257[21:48:01] *** Joins: fealscience (~fiel@replaced-ip)
3258[21:48:02] <greycat> Dagger: Do I download those into /var/lib/apt/lists/partial and then mv them to .. when they work?
3259[21:48:09] *** Quits: therealmccoy1974 (~brianlmcc@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
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3263[21:48:43] <Dagger> I meant to just try wget and see if it gives you a useful error message that you can use to figure out what's going on
3264[21:48:55] *** Quits: edgrey (~edgrey@replaced-ip) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
3265[21:49:36] *** Quits: ploc (c1213887@replaced-ip) ()
3266[21:50:16] <greycat> so... in /tmp then?
3267[21:50:45] *** Quits: brianlee (~brianlmcc@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
3268[21:50:50] <Dagger> or with -O/dev/null
3269[21:51:04] <unborn> tobiasBora: well then wait on ram to load your stuff on that phone..
3270[21:51:11] <unborn> and its not bug
3271[21:51:14] *** Joins: _chaky_ (~chaky@replaced-ip)
3272[21:51:57] <greycat> Packages.bz2.1 99%[====================> ] 292.23K --.-KB/s eta 0s
3273[21:52:07] *** Parts: bjonnh (~Bjonnh@replaced-ip)
3274[21:52:15] <greycat> That's what I get with wget. Same symptom as apt-get. It just HANGS at the end.
3275[21:52:32] *** Joins: n0kt (~n0kt@replaced-ip)
3276[21:53:54] <greycat> 2016-08-15 15:53:47 (2.43 KB/s) - Connection closed at byte 299248. Retrying.
3277[21:54:22] *** Quits: aaro (~aaro@replaced-ip) (Quit: aaro)
3278[21:54:44] *** Quits: llucenic (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
3279[21:55:11] <greycat> I guess the next thing to try is restarting the squid proxy...
3280[21:55:38] *** Joins: ShapeShifter499 (~ShapeShif@replaced-ip)
3281[21:55:41] <format_c> greycat, this is a new information that you use a web proxy
3282[21:55:57] <greycat> True. Sorry for omitting that.
3283[21:56:14] <format_c> the issue is occuring on clients behind the proxy or on the proxy itself?
3284[21:56:40] <greycat> The squid proxy is on a non-Debian system.
3285[21:57:01] <format_c> this indirectly answers the question
3286[21:57:18] <Dagger> so, obvious suggestion now that I actually know about the proxy: does it still do it if you don't use the proxy?
3287[21:57:28] <greycat> *sigh*
3288[21:57:30] <format_c> is there a way to circumvent the proxy
3289[21:57:36] <missmbob> i'm having a laugh
3290[21:57:39] <greycat> Let me try one experiment at a time....
3291[21:57:49] *** Joins: dka (~dka@replaced-ip)
3292[21:58:05] <greycat> Squid proxy has restarted, apt-get update attempt has restarted and is now hung again.
3293[21:58:11] <format_c> Assuming a different flush mechanism of the proxy or even worse a Content-Length calculation bug
3294[21:58:24] <greycat> I can *try* going without the proxy to see if the networking department folks have changed their policy lately....
3295[21:58:33] <format_c> Could you create a packet capture of this communication?
3296[21:58:40] <greycat> That sounds super hard.
3297[21:58:53] <unborn> greycat: I suggest you to read error logs..
3298[21:59:15] <format_c> tcpdump -s0 -w /tmp/capture.enc 'host <IPv6 of Proxy>'
3299[21:59:25] * greycat continues ignoring the random suggestions, and moves to the next experiment, "comment out the proxy in apt.conf"
3300[22:00:05] * format_c is thinking about a new website randomsuggestions.org
3301[22:00:10] *** Joins: plover (~plover@replaced-ip)
3302[22:00:16] *** Joins: cyborg-one (~cyborg-on@replaced-ip)
3303[22:00:26] * unborn greycat :) good suggestion however you know what moves you should take on with your question.. :))
3304[22:00:42] *** Joins: Levure (~quassel@replaced-ip)
3305[22:01:00] *** Joins: andril (~andril@replaced-ip)
3306[22:01:03] <Dagger> format_c: it'd probably solve 30% of the support issues it tried to answer for
3307[22:01:06] <greycat> With apt.conf line commented out, it is still hanging.
3308[22:01:41] <unborn> good question would be why.. in logs no suggestion at all?
3309[22:01:46] *** Joins: b6s3d (~b00s3d@replaced-ip)
3310[22:01:51] <greycat> WHAT LOGS
3311[22:01:59] <greycat> I AM TELLING YOU EXACTLY WHAT IS HAPPENING STEP BY STEP
3312[22:02:22] <format_c> tcpdump -s0 -w/tmp/capture.enc 'port 80'; Then apt-get update.
3313[22:02:31] <format_c> In a different terminal
3314[22:02:40] <format_c> Crtl-C to stop the capture.
3315[22:02:42] <unborn> in system.. logs are everywhere for everything.. heh you should know that
3316[22:02:43] <greycat> So I would have to apt-get install tcpdump first, then...?
3317[22:02:52] *** Joins: djcomidi (~stijn@replaced-ip)
3318[22:02:58] * greycat tries that, on the off chance it will work
3319[22:03:05] <greycat> Oh, hey, that is working.
3320[22:03:07] <Iridos> well, if wget cannot download it either it has nothing to do with apt
3321[22:03:14] <jelly> why do you not already have tcpdump!
3322[22:03:26] <format_c> jelly, it's there
3323[22:04:13] <greycat> Fetched 1,719 B in 19s (87 B/s)
3324[22:04:16] <greycat> Reading package lists... Done
3325[22:04:27] <greycat> ... do not understand.
3326[22:04:37] *** Joins: sl4v3 (~casey.bil@216.13.193.90)
3327[22:04:46] <greycat> So, do I ctrl-C the tcpdump now?
3328[22:04:52] <format_c> yes
3329[22:04:56] <format_c> did the issue occur?
3330[22:05:11] *** Joins: fengling (~fengling@replaced-ip)
3331[22:05:11] <greycat> The apt-get completed while tcpdump was running. For the first time in many days of trying.
3332[22:05:14] *** Joins: Sarckz (~sarckz@replaced-ip)
3333[22:05:15] <unborn> greycat: me to :) its all okay.. as they say do yes or no ;)
3334[22:05:22] * jelly wonders who uses .enc instead of .pcap extension
3335[22:06:04] <format_c> jelly, the packet capture headers differ slightly. However wireshark doesn't really rely on these details.
3336[22:06:11] <format_c> matter of habit
3337[22:06:23] <Sarckz> hello guys I have a really simple and stupid question
3338[22:06:55] <format_c> greycat, can you try to repeat until the issue re-occurs?
3339[22:07:06] <greycat> I have a bunch of other hosts to try to apt-get update on....
3340[22:07:43] <jelly> try not running in promisc mode on some of them (ie. not run tcpdump at the same time)
3341[22:07:44] *** Quits: towo` (~towo@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
3342[22:08:13] <jelly> just in case it's a heisenissue
3343[22:08:26] <greycat> root@svr4:~# apt-get update
3344[22:08:30] <Sarckz> I have a laptop with ~500 GB of disk space and I want to install debian on it, I know going with a swap partition and a root partition would be the easiest way but I'd like to create a home partition but that leaves me with how much space I should give to /
3345[22:08:31] *** Quits: DammitJim (~DammitJim@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
3346[22:08:53] *** Joins: poshbehard (~poshbehar@replaced-ip)
3347[22:09:07] <greycat> ... hanging at 100% [2 Sources 157 kB/157 kB 100%] with my unchanged config that worked for years and years and years until last week
3348[22:09:08] <Sarckz> that means, I want a swap, root and home partition, but how much space should I give to root then?
3349[22:09:29] <greycat> So, in which order shall I try which experiments on svr4?
3350[22:09:32] <jelly> Sarckz, 20GB. Or use lvm.
3351[22:10:01] *** Joins: under_creator (~master@replaced-ip)
3352[22:10:06] *** Quits: fengling (~fengling@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3353[22:10:13] <Sarckz> is 20 GB the minimum or should I give it more?
3354[22:10:15] <format_c> greycat, redo the update again when tcpdump is running.
3355[22:10:15] <AimHere> Sarckz, I have 10 GB on a desktop debian. 20-30GB sounds about right
3356[22:10:19] <jelly> Sarckz, if you decide on LVM don't let debian installer use 100% of the space for /home
3357[22:10:29] <greycat> For some reason it *likes* installing tcpdump. That isn't hanging.
3358[22:10:43] <jelly> Sarckz, that's a reasonable size a / partition will grow to during the next 5 years
3359[22:10:54] *** Joins: philipballew (~philip@replaced-ip)
3360[22:11:17] <Sarckz> okay guess I'll go with 30 GB, thank you very much guys
3361[22:11:24] <format_c> greycat, that's odd.....
3362[22:12:00] <greycat> OK, apt-get update on svr4 (via squid) is hanging and tcpdump is capturing whatever it's capturing.
3363[22:12:23] <jelly> can you run a sniffer on the squid machine?
3364[22:12:30] <format_c> could you share this capture somewhere?
3365[22:12:33] <greycat> The squid machine is HP-UX 10.20, so probably not.
3366[22:12:47] <greycat> format_c: ctrl-c them now?
3367[22:12:47] *** Quits: robotroll (~robotroll@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3368[22:12:52] <format_c> yes
3369[22:13:02] <greycat> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 24 Aug 15 16:12 /tmp/capture.enc
3370[22:13:08] <jelly> greycat, solaris had "snoop" installed by default, perhaps hp-ux had something as well
3371[22:13:13] <unborn> greycat: its been long time since I've seen you so sarcastic :) - i like you - you know that :)
3372[22:13:21] <greycat> I think I need to capture port 3128 instead of port 80
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3374[22:13:39] *** Joins: kzimmermann (~gidbsnskh@replaced-ip)
3375[22:13:46] <format_c> oh yes
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3378[22:14:15] *** Quits: simNIX (~simNIX@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3379[22:14:21] *** Quits: Artox (~Artox@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3380[22:14:33] <greycat> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 19468488 Aug 15 16:14 /tmp/capture3128.enc
3381[22:14:45] <greycat> Should I gzip it or something?
3382[22:14:52] *** Joins: brguy (uid21011@replaced-ip)
3383[22:14:56] *** Quits: hele (~hele@replaced-ip) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
3384[22:14:59] <format_c> yes doesn't harm
3385[22:15:18] <greycat> didn't help much
3386[22:15:24] *** Quits: a__ (d@replaced-ip) (Quit: Reconnecting)
3387[22:15:31] *** Joins: a_ (d@replaced-ip)
3388[22:15:59] <format_c> yeah was afraid of
3389[22:16:00] *** Quits: joobus (~Kira@replaced-ip) (Quit: leaving)
3390[22:16:18] *** Quits: N4N034 (~root@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3391[22:16:28] <greycat> replaced-url
3392[22:16:32] *** Quits: HappyLoa- (happyloaf@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3393[22:16:33] *** Joins: curtis22 (~curtis@replaced-ip)
3394[22:17:32] <jelly> is ... that web behind the same firewall? HTTP request sent, awaiting response...
3395[22:17:52] *** Quits: kzimmermann (~gidbsnskh@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3396[22:18:01] <greycat> Debian system -> HP-UX squid proxy -> workplace firewall/transparent HTTP proxy -> Internet
3397[22:18:32] <jelly> capture3128.enc.gz 34%[=========================> ] 6.13M --.-KB/s eta 29s # and hanging there
3398[22:18:38] *** Joins: funkadelic (~funkadeli@replaced-ip)
3399[22:18:46] <missmbob> downloaded fine here, fwiw
3400[22:18:46] *** Joins: HappyLoa- (happyloaf@replaced-ip)
3401[22:18:47] <format_c> greycat, interessting setup
3402[22:18:49] <format_c> I got it
3403[22:19:01] <funkadelic> im trying to compile this program but it needs some package, what is this package it is complainning about? configure: error: Mednaffe needs GTK+ >= 3.4
3404[22:19:05] *** Quits: andril (~andril@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
3405[22:20:02] <Xin> GTK.
3406[22:20:04] <Xin> obviously.
3407[22:20:07] <jelly> funkadelic, start with libgtk-3-dev
3408[22:20:32] *** Quits: dArK_IcE (~DARKICEPT@replaced-ip) ()
3409[22:20:40] <jelly> Xin, but "GTK" is not a package name.
3410[22:20:48] <funkadelic> Xin, whats the package name though, because apt-cache search gtk brings up a bunch of stuff. i tried installing gtklib3-perl
3411[22:21:08] *** Joins: dArK_IcE (~DARKICEPT@replaced-ip)
3412[22:21:09] <greycat> funkadelic: libgtk-3-dev as jelly said.
3413[22:21:23] <unborn> :) im out of here..
3414[22:21:44] <jelly> funkadelic, when you're trying to build something from source, you're almost always going to need -dev packages
3415[22:21:52] <Xin> funkadelic; lol, as the -perl implies, that is for perl
3416[22:22:09] *** Quits: Neo (~neo@replaced-ip) (Quit: Changing server)
3417[22:22:39] <funkadelic> i see ...
3418[22:22:51] *** Joins: Darcidride (~Darcidrid@replaced-ip)
3419[22:22:51] *** Joins: Neo (~neo@replaced-ip)
3420[22:23:17] <funkadelic> im installing that package now. is gonna take forever on this network :(
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3425[22:24:36] *** Quits: philipballew (~philip@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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3428[22:25:48] <funkadelic> brb
3429[22:25:51] *** Quits: funkadelic (~funkadeli@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
3430[22:26:27] *** Quits: case39 (case39@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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3434[22:28:00] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1671
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3436[22:28:56] *** Quits: Y04NN (~y04nn@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
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3442[22:30:55] <andril> o/
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3444[22:31:34] *** Joins: DammitJim (~DammitJim@replaced-ip)
3445[22:31:37] <andril> i need to install win 10 flash dell bios, is there any way to install after Debian?
3446[22:31:42] *** Joins: macrobat (~beep@replaced-ip)
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3449[22:32:53] <`Kevin> andril: you can install bios without windows no? :)
3450[22:33:12] *** Joins: Guest49953 (~weechat@replaced-ip)
3451[22:33:16] *** Joins: Sonyy (~Sonyy@replaced-ip)
3452[22:33:23] <andril> not any option i have tried - i did freedos boot and all i get back is TEST
3453[22:34:11] *** Joins: thnee (~thnee@replaced-ip)
3454[22:34:14] *** Quits: Y04NN (~y04nn@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3455[22:35:16] <format_c> greycat, the Packages.xz download runs over v4 to the proxy. The HTTP Content-Length headers comply to the data transferred, which could lead to such a behaviour. Intrestingly I spotted a Gateway-Timeout HTTP error, unfortunately not the whole communication related to that.
3456[22:35:52] <greycat> Everything should be IPv4 here. IPv6 doesn't exist in any realistic sense.
3457[22:36:31] <greycat> Anything that tries to use IPv6 other than loopback is just going to come to a flaming crashing halt.
3458[22:37:14] <format_c> greycat, it has anything to do in your environment. I've implemented v6 in a enterprise envrionment w/o any symptoms you're experiencing.
3459[22:38:25] <greycat> I am not attempting to implement ipv6.
3460[22:38:31] *** Quits: Y04NN_ (~y04nn@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3461[22:38:37] <format_c> when you "disable v6" to remediate that issue, how do you do that and where?
3462[22:38:43] <greycat> I've been doing apt-get update (etc.) through this same process for years, but suddenly it's not working.
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3464[22:39:01] *** Joins: blueness (~blueness@replaced-ip)
3465[22:39:04] <greycat> format_c: all I did was add the -4 option to my named command on svr5 which is my DNS server.
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3477[22:42:54] <StoBrendo> does anyone know if debian's systemd could be replaced for openrc , and if yes could you share a good link about it?
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3482[22:45:35] <jmcnaught> StoBrendo: there is an openrc package in jessie. You could start by installing it on a test system (or downloading the .deb) and reading the documentation, look for a README.Debian in /usr/share/doc/openrc
3483[22:46:02] <jmcnaught> StoBrendo: you may find that some things don't work as well when not using the default init
3484[22:46:05] <StoBrendo> jmcnaught: after installing it systemd could be safely (and entirely) removed?
3485[22:46:20] <StoBrendo> jmcnaught: which kind of things?
3486[22:46:23] <jmcnaught> StoBrendo: i don't know, i'm telling you to read the documentation that comes with the package
3487[22:46:52] *** Joins: rbern (~rbern@replaced-ip)
3488[22:46:56] <StoBrendo> jmcnaught: ok i will , thanks. Anyways which kind of thigs are those that tends to fail when doing this?
3489[22:47:34] <jmcnaught> StoBrendo: i don't know, i use systemd ;) but the jessie release notes contain a caution about this
3490[22:48:40] <greycat> Looking at "apt-cache show openrc", I am not seeing why you would prefer this over sysvinit.
3491[22:48:48] *** Quits: crayon (~user@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3492[22:49:06] <jmcnaught> StoBrendo: also in the future please do not ask your question on freenode and OFTC at the same time, it causes duplication of effort
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3496[22:49:59] <StoBrendo> jmcnaught: ok sorry, I'll remember. From what i've read just now what could fail from doing what you say me are some DE
3497[22:50:24] <format_c> greycat, when enforcing named to IPv4, it does not mean that it doesn't resolve AAAA requests and delivering this to the clients. This sound to me like a broken IPv6 connectivity of your DNS server.
3498[22:50:53] <greycat> My DNS server is inside the workplace firewall. All of these systems are. I have no control over the workplace firewall.
3499[22:50:59] *** Quits: altin (~altin@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
3500[22:51:11] <greycat> nameserver 10.76.142.103
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3514[22:57:31] <format_c> can you try the following on your DNS server: dig A replaced-url
3515[22:57:56] <greycat> replaced-url
3516[22:58:08] <format_c> And dig A replaced-url
3517[22:58:23] *** Quits: Lacho (~lacho@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
3518[22:58:26] <greycat> Is hanging.
3519[22:58:30] *** Joins: DalekSec (unit193@replaced-ip)
3520[22:58:35] <greycat> ;; connection timed out; no servers could be reached
3521[22:59:03] <greycat> For simplicity, you *really* can just assume that I have no IPv6 at all.
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3524[22:59:47] <format_c> But I think that your DNS server "thinks" it has.
3525[23:00:22] *** Parts: CtrlC (~CtrlC@replaced-ip)
3526[23:00:39] <greycat> That would explain the IPv6-looking errors in the log, before I changed it to run with the -4 option.
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3535[23:03:28] <simbalion> does anyone have experience installing epsxe on jessie? I'm having issues with dependencies
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3543[23:08:17] <simbalion> nvm I got it :D
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3590[23:28:00] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1664
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3592[23:28:28] <brizz> my debian is screwed up
3593[23:28:46] <brizz> it doesnt have package 'nginx'...ive tried rebuilding sources.list, but that didnt fix it
3594[23:28:55] <brizz> is there something else besides sources.list i need to be doing?
3595[23:29:14] <brizz> im trying to avoid re-installing everything, because its a server...and its serving stuff
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3605[23:34:21] <funkadelic> i seemed to have broke my sound some how, can someone help me figure out what happened to it?
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3607[23:34:52] *** Parts: takurtak (~onculayin@replaced-ip)
3608[23:35:11] <format_c> brizz, what does apt-cache policy nginx say?
3609[23:35:12] *** Quits: robotroll (~robotroll@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3610[23:35:48] <brizz> i fixed it...i deleted everything in sources.d
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3613[23:36:00] <brizz> and re-made the sources.list from default
3614[23:36:15] <brizz> another question someone might be able to answer tho
3615[23:36:21] <brizz> (im on debian stretch)
3616[23:36:39] <brizz> 'search' stopped working. i.e. i cant type an app name and have it show up
3617[23:37:00] <missmbob> !debian-next
3618[23:37:00] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on Freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
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3625[23:41:04] <doublehp> I want to change a setting for my monitor (rotate portrait); how do I custom xorg.conf ? X -configure fails, so I can't create template; I try to only write section I need, but startx uses the file without using my section (probably wrong identifier)
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3636[23:46:36] <funkadelic> i fixed it
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