People who Joins , Parts or Quits a chatroom
this is #debian
an IRC -Channel at freenode
(freenode IRC service closed
2021-06-01)
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48 [00:48:25] <Niggaaah> Yo
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50 [00:48:53] <Geobook> Hi
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52 [00:49:13] <Niggaaah> Kys Geobook
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110 [01:14:36] <monode> I can't get shutdown scripts
working. I'm making an OOBE script for some VMs. Back on my old
debian (7) i used to simply put some scripts int rc0.d and rc6.d and
have those run at reboot and shutdown, but it seems in 10 this is
not working anymore
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114 [01:15:53] <monode> I really don't want to downgrade
back to 7, but I'm looking for a solution that will allow me to
run stuff on reboot/shutdown, ideally on a pristine system, just by
changing the FS, ideally not messing with any services, creating
unit files, running various binaries, etc...
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116 [01:16:12] <monode> Is this still possible under 10?
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122 [01:19:27] <monode> I'd really like to avoid the whole
systemd thing and just have my old scripts working...
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128 [01:25:13] <f8e3> i have crucial ssd, it does not respond
only have it /dev/sda type disk listed, how to 'reset' it
somehow, no data on it, is there some cmd i can run from livedisc?
129 [01:26:30] <monode> smartctl says anything interesting about
it?
130 [01:26:52] <monode> smartctl -A /dev/sdX
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134 [01:29:05] <f8e3> bash: smartctl: command not found
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138 [01:31:26] <f8e3> i get lots of: Warning: could not erase
sector 2: Input/output error on mkfs format try
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186 [01:54:38] <graphicsv> Anyone here using xanmod or other
custom kernel? When I use it with Debian Buster, I get very high CPU
peaks. Anyone knows why?
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190 [01:59:04] <graphicsv> Default Debian Buster kernel works
flawlessly: 4.19.0-6-amd64
191 [01:59:14] <graphicsv> Just wondering why. Maybe someone
knows something
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204 [02:12:58] <f8e3> on liveimg deb10.2 i dropped into no disk
drive detected, driver needed please select form list, which one to
choose for ssd rucial m550?
205 [02:13:44] <gZen0n> Hi can someone explain me this file in
cron please ?
replaced-url
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207 [02:14:16] <gZen0n> If I undersqtand well its about saving
passwordd hashes ?
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246 [02:49:44] <icmpcat> hello all. I have a usb wifi device that
seems to assign itself a randomized mac address every time i up the
device. where would i start in attempting to control this behaviour
a bit more?
247 [02:50:11] <icmpcat> i've tried using ifconfig to assign
it a hw ether address but it doesn't let me
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255 [02:54:49] <gZen0n> Which container package would you
recommand in Buster to begin with containers ?
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345 [04:02:51] <LCRERGO> Hi, for btrfs is there a recommendation
for where to put snapshots? Because of the permissions I mean...
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435 [05:24:03] <kingsley> Does any system administrator utility,
like maybe the "top" command, report utilization of CPUs,
cores and ideally, threads?
436 [05:25:03] <kingsley> For example, I'd like to see how
many cores and CPUs ffmpeg is using to render video with various
options.
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438 [05:27:48] <jsync> Anybody aware of a software for a small
network search engine? Just for pages within a few different
domains.
439 [05:28:15] <jsync> Local network pages - search engine.
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441 [05:31:38] <dispersed> kingsley: htop is pretty good
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443 [05:31:59] <toruvinn> jsync, maybe sphinx? i dont know much
about it, though
444 [05:32:21] <toruvinn> kingsley, not sure what you mean, in
`top` press 1 to see all the cores
445 [05:33:02] <toruvinn> kingsley, press H to view threads.
i'd suggest pressing '?' to see the available keys
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447 [05:33:17] <toruvinn> btw top has the ability to write the
.toprc for you
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449 [05:35:54] <jsync> Sort of curious about recommendations. I
found a page that describes 5 different desktop search engines &
recommends "Beagle".
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451 [05:37:41] <jsync> I need a replacement of Google, for a
small local network apache server that has various mirrored domains.
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455 [05:40:09] <kreyren> How do i flash GPU (AMD7870) microcode
on debian?
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459 [05:42:50] <kreyren> i suspect that update on debian testing
sandbox flashed it and broke it since it doesn't work since the
update
460 [05:43:16] <kingsley> toruvinn: Thank you for your
interesting point of view. I tried pressing "1" in top.
The good news? Individual "CPU"s were reported on each
line. The bad news? top reported too many CPUs, and little or no
utilization. I don't know why. Maybe because that functionality
hasn't yet been ported/implemented on the hardware I'm
testing. It's a Talos II computer that uses IBM's cool new
POWER9v2 CPUs.
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464 [05:45:37] <nyov> kingsley: top reports on cpu cores, not
physical cpus?
465 [05:45:50] <nyov> are your cores not matching with top
output?
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468 [05:47:19] <kingsley> nyov: Yes, I also wondered if top
mistakenly labeled cores as CPUs. Unfortunately, it reported over 50
CPUs on a computer with 2 and 44 cores.
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477 [05:52:11] <nyov> kingsley: if you think this is mistakenly,
then you may want '2' for real cpus? maybe I for irix mode
as well
478 [05:52:39] <nyov> I don't know where top gets the cpu
info. does proc have the correct amount of cpus/cores?
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482 [05:53:20] <kingsley> Maybe htop will work.
483 [05:54:36] <nyov> what kind of die do you have, that has 44
cores?
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488 [06:05:26] <kingsley> nyov: If I understand your polite
question correclty, and assume each CPU is a die, I'm
benchmarking 2 dies (CPUs) and each CPU has 22 cores. 2 * 22 = 44
cores on the mother board. The CPUs/dies are IBM POWER9v2.
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492 [06:09:32] <nyov> I'm just curious about the
architecture. All I could find on wikipedia about power9's were
24core chips. That's why I asked
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512 [06:20:10] <nyov> kingsley: actually the 22core chip I
didn't see is referenced on second read. I was just blind.
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514 [06:21:00] <kingsley> nyov: Now you know.
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527 [06:31:25] <nyov> kingsley: indeed :) so did htop help? does
/proc/cpuinfo report a different number of cores than top did?
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530 [06:35:34] <nyov> jsync: does it have to be desktop search?
531 [06:35:45] <DemonicDolphin> I love Debian.
532 [06:35:48] <DemonicDolphin> Ubuntu Server bad
533 [06:36:46] <jsync> nyov, I actually want to install a search
of the pages that my apache2 server hosts.
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535 [06:37:53] <jsync> I have various pages mirrored: i.e.
replaced-url
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537 [06:38:59] <nyov> hm. yacy used to be a thing for this, not
sure if it still is
538 [06:39:04] <nyov>
replaced-url
539 [06:39:41] <nyov> then you have searx, which is more a
metasearch engine
replaced-url
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546 [06:46:07] <nyov> jsync: since you say you have them all
locally mirrored (probably as html dumps), the desktop-like search
index (filesystem crawler) seems more reasonable, but I really
can't find any good software options I must say
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548 [06:47:01] <jm__> way back I used mnogosearch, I see debian
also packages things like elasticsearch and lucene, there's
also htdig
549 [06:49:02] <jm__> my bad, only clients for elasticsearch are
packaged
550 [06:49:13] <nyov> but those are just parts of s system, no?
my knee-jerk reaction would be to shout xapian. but that's also
just a db, not a full-index search system
551 [06:51:09] <jsync> I thought yacy might work. No?
552 [06:51:39] <nyov> yeah, but it works over http. if the files
are all already on your disk, a local fs-based indexer would be way
faster
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555 [06:54:36] <nyov>
replaced-url
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560 [06:58:00] <jsync> Well, the server hosts pages for an
intranet: local "drakonet".
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562 [06:58:41] <jsync> Actually, it seems htdig would work
better.
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564 [06:59:36] <jsync> Or perhaps the couple of softwares
together. Not sure yet, not actually, though good suggestions.
Thanks.
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##replaced-url
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637 [08:08:01] <bkeys> Hello, does anyone here have any
experience cross compiling from x86 -> arm64?
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653 [08:23:20] <jsync> The Debian wiki warns to make a fresh
install between i386 & amd64.
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658 [08:26:57] <jelly> jsync: that is correct, there is no
official transition plan. Only some unofficial crossgrade howtos.
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660 [08:27:55] <jelly> bkeys: poke #debian-arm over on
irc.oftc.net when they're awake
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663 [08:29:17] <jsync> I'm glad I did the fresh install. I
was disappointed that Debian installer didn't make full use of
my 3tb hdd, not actually. I got 2.2tb of the 3tb disk potential.
I'll clone the system to a separate partitioned disk upon full
setup.
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673 [08:41:31] <webie>
replaced-url
674 [08:41:47] <webie> after installing debian my touch pad right
click not working :(
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676 [08:42:10] <quadrathoch2> webie, you probably need to
activate it in your settings of the DE
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678 [08:42:35] <webie> quadrathoch2 what is DE ?
679 [08:42:43] <quadrathoch2> desktop environment
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682 [08:43:16] <jelly> webie: you're missing the main repo
in there
683 [08:43:20] <jelly> !buster sources.list
684 [08:43:20] <dpkg> A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for
"Buster" has the lines: "deb
replaced-url
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687 [08:44:05] <webie> quadrathoch2 got it thank you, on debbian
8-9 they are set default
688 [08:44:16] <webie> jelly Thank you
689 [08:44:18] <jelly> there's only security and
buster-updates in there
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691 [08:44:45] <webie> jelly Yeah I get that I missed something
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695 [08:45:49] <webie> Thank you
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697 [08:46:10] <webie> Id it good practise not to have sudo ?
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701 [08:46:32] <webie> I dont want to have sudo access ti my
users
702 [08:46:47] <webie> since debian not provinding sudo by
default
703 [08:47:12] <jm__> you don't need to enable sudo
704 [08:47:53] <jsync> Is there a browser available that's
better suited to intranet usage?
705 [08:48:10] <webie> jm__ is it good practise ? Now I need to
install anything with root
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707 [08:48:27] <webie> and firefox updates to 72.0 or still 68 ?
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709 [08:48:36] <jsync> A simple browser that could be easily
customized would be cool.
710 [08:48:42] <jelly> webie: sudo is an excellent tool to give
specific users rights to call specific commands; using sudo to run
any command as root is not much different from using su - to run any
command as root.
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713 [08:49:20] <jm__> webie: I personally rarely use sudo
714 [08:49:37] <jm__> webie: so whatever works for you is OK
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716 [08:50:00] <webie> jelly jm__ okay
717 [08:50:09] <webie> so I will make a habbit to run with su -
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719 [08:50:45] <webie> Debian should stop providing those games
which no one plays
720 [08:51:06] <jelly> webie: there's no firefox release
branch in Debian 10, only firefox ESR in firefox-esr package, and
that will stay at 68.something until ESR siwtches to 74 or whatever
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722 [08:51:22] <jelly> probably 6-8 more months
723 [08:51:48] <webie> jelly, ok
724 [08:52:22] <webie> Thanks again need to reboot my machine
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747 [09:07:11] <jsync> Does Epiphany do alright with media files,
like .mp4 files, etc.?
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810 [09:41:53] <at0m> jsync: for docs on the LAN here, i use
dillo. super fast. but since it's long gone unmaintained, i
wouldn't surf the wild wild web with it
811 [09:42:14] <webiew> Hii some help please, I disables touchpad
by mistake on mouse&touchpad in the desktop environment and now
I am not able to use touchpad and I dont have mouse with me. Can i
somhowdisable it from terminal
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813 [09:42:34] <webiew> disabled*
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815 [09:43:16] <at0m> webiew: touchpad is on a laptop, i assume.
usually there's an Fn-Function key that enables and disables
the mousepad
816 [09:43:32] <at0m> say, Fn-F6
817 [09:43:33] <webiew> at0m which key?
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820 [09:44:16] <at0m> webiew: depends on your laptop. look at the
top row, Function keys, added symbols next to F[1-12] print
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823 [09:44:34] <jm__> no idea about wayland, but with X you can
move the mouse cursor with keys if that's the issue
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825 [09:45:25] <at0m> webiew: you know, there's often
brighter/dimmer display settings or multimedia controls there, and
also the touchpad enable/disable
826 [09:45:26] <webiew> nope its not working
827 [09:45:44] <webiew> webiew I was mentioning to that
828 [09:46:54] <webiew> there I disabled the touchpad by
mistake'
829 [09:47:45] <at0m> webiew: same key will likely re-enable it
830 [09:48:12] <at0m> not sure how to do that from a console
831 [09:48:46] <webiew> My bad luck I dont have mouse and not
able to use the touchpad
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833 [09:48:52] <webiew> and manging from keyboard
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836 [09:49:26] <webiew> function keys doing changes on my browser
837 [09:49:55] <at0m> webiew: use combination of Fn key and those
function keys
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839 [09:50:19] <webiew> at0m I will try it
840 [09:50:40] <at0m> webiew: for example, here, it's Fn-F9
841 [09:50:55] <webiew> one min
842 [09:50:58] <at0m> F9 has this mousepad icon on it here
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844 [09:51:46] <webiew> None of the f keys enabled the touchpad
845 [09:51:53] <webiew> :(
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847 [09:52:45] <webiew> there should be some way with console
terminal but not easy ?
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864 [10:01:44] <webie> If I do some mistake I am forced to
restart
865 [10:02:01] <webie> Its very sad to disable touchpad
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868 [10:02:50] <quadrathoch2> webie, I am pretty sure there is a
way, but right now nobody is online who knows the answer
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870 [10:03:35] <webie> quadrathoch2 ok, the only other option is
fir format again :( I spoiled one usb stick since last few hours to
install debian
871 [10:03:48] <webie> and finally when i get it I did a dumb act
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873 [10:04:16] <at0m> do the same act again, that'll revert
=)
874 [10:05:15] <quadrathoch2> at0m, I think he clicked on the DE
config, to disable the mouse
875 [10:06:06] <webie> Yes
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877 [10:06:40] <at0m> webie: can you launch that DE config again,
then use TAB and arrows to browse and select that option again?
878 [10:06:54] <webie> at0m I am able to launch it again
879 [10:07:05] <webie> then tab and arpoows not working
880 [10:07:11] <at0m> hmmm
881 [10:07:17] <at0m> what DE are you on?
882 [10:07:32] <webie> I opened the mouse setting from windows
search
883 [10:07:43] <webie> and it was open here then no atb is
working
884 [10:07:46] <webie> tab*
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886 [10:08:35] <at0m> maybe the option has an underlined key,
like _E_nable ? then Alt-e
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888 [10:09:00] <webie> one min I will try
889 [10:09:03] <at0m> webie: what desktop environment do you
have?
890 [10:09:05] <at0m> ok
891 [10:09:27] <webie> default debian one
892 [10:09:32] <tinyhippo> gome
893 [10:09:34] <tinyhippo> gnoem
894 [10:09:37] <tinyhippo> fuck
895 [10:09:38] <at0m> =)
896 [10:09:38] <webie> may be Gnome yeah
897 [10:09:39] <tinyhippo> GNOME
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900 [10:10:33] <webie> Okay formatting again :( as I need to do
get somethign done urgent :( This really sucked my time
901 [10:11:22] <at0m> webie: uh? maybe websearch "enable
disable touchpad gnome"
902 [10:12:21] <Antoine> Hello, is anyone familiar with Logwatch?
I'm on Debian 10, I have just installed Logwatch 7.5.0-1 and it
fails to parse a lot of my dovecot entries. Each time the log says
"sieve" then "stored mail into mailbox" or
"saved mail to", it won't parse.
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905 [10:14:19] <at0m> webie: or, ask in #gnome
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921 [10:29:25] <jsync> at0m, I've decided to work with
modifying Epiphany browser for an intranet usage. It's sort of
cheesy-simple, which might make edits of the code easy & fun.
922 [10:30:10] <Antoine> Ok I used
/logwatch-7.5.3/scripts/services/dovecot from
replaced-url
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925 [10:33:01] <Wally> Wow.. I can't believe it.
CrypticSquared is alive
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950 [10:54:06] <webie> Installation of debian so fat it took me a
hour for installing whole os than 30+mins to figure out how to
enable the touchpad
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952 [10:54:50] <webie> What is the command to see the source
mirrors?
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954 [10:56:01] <at0m> !sources.list
955 [10:56:01] <dpkg> A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for
"Buster" has the lines: "deb
replaced-url
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958 [10:56:12] <webie> Thanks at0m
959 [10:56:55] <webie> I installed mate this time than Gnome and
I may regret untill I find time to install gnome
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961 [10:57:53] <at0m> webie: sure. you can install any of your
liking, and simultaneously, too. then select one from the login
window
962 [10:58:30] <webie> at0m In a rush i did a mistake deslecetd
others and selected only mate,printserver
963 [10:58:50] <webie> So I need to install it seperately or
anyway still I can switch ?
964 [10:59:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1559
965 [10:59:17] <at0m> webie: in aptitude, there's a category
"tasks". you can select some there, same tasks are in the
installer, afaik
966 [10:59:41] <webie> and right click working without any issue
with mate
967 [10:59:45] <webie> wondering what is the issue
968 [10:59:59] <webie> thanks at0m I will explore more
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978 [11:04:53] <epitamizer> i need to create my service for
startup, but one wiki is saying to create file under
/etc/systemd/system/, another says under /usr/lib/systemd/system,
then I saw there was /lib/systemd/system. if it is system wide
create it under /usr?
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982 [11:05:25] <JustASlacker> use /etc or just use systemctl edit
--full yourname
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984 [11:05:48] <JustASlacker> the stuff in /lib is for package
maintainers
985 [11:05:55] <mortderire> Anyone manning the #FOSDEM stand on
here?
986 [11:06:24] <webie> WTF mate have some pluma editor instead of
gedit are they both same?? So all these accessories are installed
with GUI? Not know untill now
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992 [11:11:36] <epitamizer> and to stop service from starting
it's systemctl mask?
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1000 [11:18:00] <JustASlacker> disable
1001 [11:18:03] <JustASlacker> and enable
1002 [11:18:37] <JustASlacker> think mask and the like still work
but are deprecated iirc
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1007 [11:21:47] <epitamizer> i dont like how when i install the
package, the service automatically starts. is there way to prevent
that from starting all the time?
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1010 [11:28:00] <ratrace> epitamizer: you can predefine a systemd
symlink to devnull for the service, iirc.
1011 [11:28:29] <ratrace> eg. ln -s /dev/null
/etc/systemd/system/the-service-i-dont-want-enabled-by-default.service
1012 [11:29:22] <epitamizer> ok, found this too
replaced-url
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1014 [11:30:18] <ratrace> epitamizer: not sure how that applies to
systemd though.
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1018 [11:36:25] <f8e3> what could go wrong: add deb
replaced-url
1019 [11:36:37] <f8e3> i need python-gtksourceview2
1020 [11:37:23] <nyov> can I use tcpdump or tshark with an ipset
as source/dest ips somehow?
1021 [11:37:26] <f8e3> reviewing:
replaced-url
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1024 [11:38:09] <nyov> f8e3: what do you need it for?
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1026 [11:38:50] <f8e3> nyov: for cherrytree, i needs the lib to
run
1027 [11:39:44] <f8e3> nyov the dev wasnt able to port in time
1028 [11:40:19] <nyov> f8e3: it appears there should be no issues
with this. I juwst tried it
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1030 [11:40:44] <f8e3> nyov: did you add it to the list, then
installed via eg synaptic?
1031 [11:41:04] <nyov> well, I simulated the install. but no
dependency conflicts on buster or such
1032 [11:41:14] <dka> How can I add `always-auth=true` to ~/.npmrc
only if the string is not already present ?
1033 [11:41:59] <f8e3> nyov nice, so just wget and dpkg -i, or add
sources.list and use synaptic?
1034 [11:42:33] <nyov> f8e3: well, for the depends, synaptic/apt
may be nicer. also more secure.
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1036 [11:42:58] <f8e3> f8e3 ok will do, and then remove the link
again (which does not effect the uninstall i guess)
1037 [11:43:14] <nyov> just echo "deb
replaced-url
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1039 [11:43:26] <nyov> yes, you can disable it any time again
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1044 [11:44:57] <nyov> dka: grep -q always-auth ~/.npmrc || echo
"always-auth=true" >> ~/.npmrc
1045 [11:45:21] <dka> ty
1046 [11:45:25] <nyov> no guarantees
1047 [11:45:26] <nyov> :p
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1049 [11:46:23] <f8e3> nyov: thank you, nice
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1054 [11:47:12] <nyov> damn. i want to use ipsets with tcpdump or
tshark :< and google insists I want help with ipsec. grrr
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1058 [11:48:52] <nyov> hm. maybe i just need to handle this with
iptables and some dummy interface
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1095 [12:11:50] <sillyslux> i had a harddisk mysteriously
disappearing a few days back, after i pulled cables and reconnected
everything, i can boot into my system again, but now every other
command returns `bash: /usr/bin/<cmd>: Operation not
supported`. is there an easier solution as to reinstall everything?
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1098 [12:12:39] <jm__> maybe first check what kernel says when
that happens, i.e. if it reports any errors related to the hard
drive
1099 [12:13:04] <sillyslux> ah logfiles! oh my...
1100 [12:13:14] <jm__> I was thinking dmesg output
1101 [12:13:17] <petn-randall> "Operation not supported"
sounds pretty wacky indeed.
1102 [12:13:32] * petn-randall wonders how bash got started in the first
place.
1103 [12:14:09] <sillyslux> i can boot and login in a terminal,
but lightdm won't start
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1105 [12:14:22] <sillyslux> at all
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1107 [12:14:35] <sillyslux> slim comes up, but cannot start a wm
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1109 [12:14:50] <sillyslux> starting fluxbox doesn't work at
all
1110 [12:14:54] <sillyslux> xinit does
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1112 [12:17:28] <sillyslux> nah dmesg has nothing
1113 [12:19:04] <Antoine> Hello, this might not be the right
channel, let me know. I run a postfix server on my Debian machine. I
am looking into securing it and found spamassassin, clamav and
amavis. I'm wondering, since amavis seems to be just a wrapper,
why use it at all instead of just configuring postfix to use
spamassassin and clamav?
1114 [12:19:11] <sillyslux> syslog has something
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1116 [12:19:33] <jm__> sillyslux: and if you run md5sum -c
/var/lib/dpkg/info/foo.md5sum for a package containing one of those
binaries?
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1120 [12:20:17] <sillyslux> error while loading shared libraries
and a few operation not supporteds
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1122 [12:20:55] <jm__> try ldd on one such binary too
1123 [12:21:07] <Ticho> Antoine: you can use spamassassin directly
from postfix if you want, but amavis adds value by acting as a
central "glue", making use of potentially several
different filters
1124 [12:21:09] <sillyslux> oh apt-get updated wasn't working
so i've added [trusted=yes] in /etc/apt/sources.conf
1125 [12:21:19] <ratrace> Antoine: because postfix on its own
can't do what amavis does, it has a single "content
filter" concept, and no idea about what clamav or SA do. Also,
nitpick but... that's not securing the mail server, that's
filtering mail.
1126 [12:22:19] <sillyslux> not a dynamic executable
1127 [12:22:30] <jm__> which binary is it?
1128 [12:22:47] <sillyslux> /usr/bin/startfluxbox
1129 [12:23:00] <jm__> that sounds like a shell script to me
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1131 [12:23:13] <jm__> try with something else
1132 [12:23:20] <sillyslux> oh, most of it is
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1134 [12:23:30] <jm__> most?
1135 [12:23:53] <sillyslux> of the things ending in operation not
supported
1136 [12:24:22] <Antoine> Ticho: ratrace: Oh so I can't have
several filters on Postfix?
1137 [12:24:27] <sillyslux> at least the box is still routing my
internet
1138 [12:24:36] <jm__> does '/bin/sh
/usr/bin/startfluxbox' work?
1139 [12:24:38] <sillyslux> i feel like reinstalling it
1140 [12:24:50] <Antoine> Does it mean that if I don't use
Amavis, I need to chose which filter I want to use: spamassassin or
clamav?
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1143 [12:25:19] <sillyslux> couldn't connect to XServer
passing null display
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1145 [12:25:36] <jm__> looks like it does, I wonder why it
won't start on its own then
1146 [12:25:47] *** Joins: Ericounet (~Eric@replaced-ip )
1147 [12:26:47] <sillyslux> /bin/sh /usr/bin/startfluxbox works!!
ty
1148 [12:26:50] <ratrace> Antoine: I think you can chain
content_filters but they can't talk to each other. Amavis also
does things like defanging and has the ability to send out an email,
to the recipient, that there was an email for them, but was refused
due to it being detected as malware
1149 [12:27:32] <jm__> sillyslux: maybe start with debsums and
then decide if you need to reinstall
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1151 [12:27:39] <ratrace> Antoine: meanwhile, I don't bother
with amavis at all, nor clamav, I only use SA directly. In my
experience, ClamAV as had very, very low success rate in detecting
anything
1152 [12:28:16] <sillyslux> this? md5sum -c
/var/lib/dpkg/info/foo.md5sum
1153 [12:28:30] <jm__> that just for one package, debsums will
check all packages
1154 [12:28:32] <sillyslux> i have no /var/lib/dpkg/info
1155 [12:29:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1565
1156 [12:29:07] <jm__> no /var/lib/dpkg dir at all?
1157 [12:29:16] *** Quits: Ericounet (~Eric@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1158 [12:29:22] <Ticho> Antoine: what ratrace says - amavis gives
you more options regarding filtering management, e.g. quarantining
messages with malware, filter statistics, reporting, etc.
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1161 [12:30:03] <sillyslux> jm__, sry i had a typo
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1163 [12:30:13] <sillyslux> i'll try md5sum with all files
there
1164 [12:30:20] <jm__> sillyslux: i.e. md5sum -c
/var/lib/dpkg/info/fluxbox.md5sum
1165 [12:30:32] <jm__> sillyslux: debsums does that for you
1166 [12:30:35] <sillyslux> /usr/lib/dpkg...
1167 [12:32:08] <Antoine> ratrace: That's my current setup
too: Postfix and spamassassin. I'll need to decide if I really
need more then
1168 [12:32:40] <Antoine> This is a very small mail server and
most of my users use Linux so if Clamav detects mostly windows
viruses, it might not make a lot of sense to get it
1169 [12:33:05] <Antoine> Ticho: Oh OK, that's interesting,
I'll look into it in more details
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1172 [12:34:58] <ratrace> Antoine: I've yet to hear of a
linux-compatible malware spreading through e-mail, the attack
vectors on linux are just different. Then again, I used to run
clamav in comparison with NOD32 linux edition few years ago, and
clamav barely detected anything
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1180 [12:40:13] <ratrace> Antoine: ironically, one of vectors to
pwn a linux box is exploiting amavis vulnerabilities though. while
there's very little incentive to infect linux users through
email attachments, there is huge incentive to try overtake the email
server itself :)
1181 [12:40:13] <Antoine> ratrace: Is NOD32 free software?
1182 [12:40:24] <ratrace> Antoine: nope, commercial.
1183 [12:40:43] <ratrace> (and close-sourced, if that the
"free" you meant)
1184 [12:40:54] <Antoine> That's what I meant
1185 [12:41:47] <Antoine> I think it's better to keep a
simple configuration without too many packages so I might pass on
Amavis then
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1187 [12:41:58] <Antoine> Thanks for the info :)
1188 [12:42:58] <ratrace> We run email servers for our clients,
and we were thinking of using either NOD32 or Kaspersky, linux
editions. We ran a test with NOD32 alongside ClamAV, and ClamAV
proved very ineffective. Then we dropped the whole thing because we
decied we didn't want the potential liability by telling our
users we scanned email for viruses. So we rather tell them they must
run AV themselves anyway.
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1191 [12:43:40] <ratrace> incidentally, spam heuristics and
detection catches a lot of that malware anyway.
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1195 [12:44:46] <ratrace> speaking of which, there are some new
SpamAssassin vulns published this morning, gotta go investigate
what's up...
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1203 [12:50:47] <Ticho> ratrace, Antoine: amavis with antivirus
filters is still useful for mailservers which serve Windows users -
I've ran a lot of such mailservers for small local businesses,
and it's much better to catch such malware emails on the server
than to leave it to desktop antivirus software
1204 [12:51:56] <Ticho> we've used clamav, f-prot and some
commercial scanner that I do not remember the name of - and
together, they were quite effective
1205 [12:52:33] <sillyslux> debsums shows no errors, i think
it's something in the root overlay image file i made, booting
without it worked fine iirc, i'll try with a new file later
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1209 [12:53:21] <diogenes_> Hey guys, is there any other way
(apart from full disk encryption) to make your data inaccessible in
case your HDD or laptop gets stolen?
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1212 [12:54:31] <ratrace> Ticho: that's my point, ClamAV is
very weak in catching windows malware, compared to paid, commercial
AV solutions.
1213 [12:55:25] <ratrace> I should be specific: very weak in
catching new threats. Once threats get into the clamav db (which can
take weeks, sometimes months), then ClamAV can detect them too, but
by that time the campaigns are usually over, and new variants are
spreading.
1214 [12:55:39] <ratrace> diogenes_: I can't imagine any
other.
1215 [12:55:45] <tomreyn> diogenes_: physical storage encryption,
file system encryption, but software-based FDE still seems like the
best approach to me.
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1219 [12:56:21] <diogenes_> ok i\ll look into that, thanks guys.
1220 [12:56:32] <ratrace> never trust HDD "hardware"
encryption, and it has proven... faulty.... time and time again
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1222 [12:57:03] <diogenes_> ratrace, i need it only for a few days
while travelling, after that it's pretty safe at home.
1223 [12:57:39] <tomreyn> if that's related to worries about
border crossing, use the internet instead.
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1225 [12:57:58] <dym> Hey all! Im using Debian 10 with GNOME
3.30.2. Im trying to establish a protocol handler for ssh:// to use
with keepassxc. Any pointers on how to go about doing that?
1226 [12:58:11] <ratrace> diogenes_: I'd always recommend to
use FDE, everywhere. With modern CPUs being unviersally AESNI
capable, there's no reason not to any more.
1227 [12:58:29] <diogenes_> tomreyn, nah i'm far from Edward
Snowden :) i only worry if it gets stolen and someone might see my
awkward pics on on facebook XD
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1229 [12:58:41] <ratrace> dym: keepassxc is a password store. how
would that work for the OpenSSH protocol?
1230 [12:58:59] <tomreyn> diogenes_: your awkward pics on facebook
are on facebook, though
1231 [12:59:13] <ratrace> and not just on facebook :)
1232 [12:59:22] <diogenes_> tomreyn, but not anyone have access to
the hidden ones.
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1235 [12:59:43] <ratrace> diogenes_: except Cambrige Analytica
guys and who knows what number of third party partners and API users
:)
1236 [12:59:57] <ratrace> but sure, your "friends"
probably can't see them :)
1237 [12:59:57] <tomreyn> until facebook is what myspace is now,
in a few years, when all of what you ever did there and posted is
sold
1238 [13:00:10] <dym> ratrace: Well, i store my ssh endpoints in
it and have ssh://<host> urls there, which i'd like to
trigger by doubleclicking.
1239 [13:00:19] <dym> ratrace: to spawn a terminal and connect to
said host.
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as others, actually are safe in doing such.)
1241 [13:00:56] <dym> ratrace: keeping aside keepass. i need a
protocol handler for ssh:// that spawns a terminal of my choice.
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1243 [13:01:44] <ratrace> dym: right, so the issue is not
specifically keepassxc, but a question of how to configure custom
URL handlers / mimeapps, under gnome?
1244 [13:01:59] <dym> ratrace: affirmative.
1245 [13:02:17] <dym> sorry for the confusion.
1246 [13:02:31] <ratrace> xdg-mime comes to mind, and you
associate URL with a .desktop launcher. ask googs for more details
as I don't recall them right now.
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1248 [13:02:58] <dym> ratrace: wilco. thanks.
1249 [13:03:44] <ratrace> dym: found this:
replaced-url
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1252 [13:04:28] <JustASlacker> check xdg-settings and xdg-open as
well
1253 [13:04:42] <dym> right
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1319 [13:49:15] <Ticho> ratrace: regarding clamav, fair enough, it
all depends on how well individual scanner's database is
maintained and updated - and clamav's can be slow(er) at times
:)
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1321 [13:51:20] <nyov> i think where clamav's flaws are is
the heuristics rather than a database of positives
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##replaced-url
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1369 [14:29:42] <hmpf1> Hi, can anybody help with a
systemd-networkd configuration?
1370 [14:29:42] <hmpf1> I have an embedded device. The chip hase
an internal port (etho) connected to a switch with two ports (swp0,
swp1). I want use swp0,1 over a bridge.
1371 [14:29:42] <hmpf1> I can set up the br0 device. And I active
eth0 by adding another .network file. But it still does not get a
link after boot. But when I restart systemd-networkd then it works
fine.
1372 [14:29:42] <hmpf1> My guess is an issue with the order of
something or another.
1373 [14:29:42] <hmpf1> Any ideas?
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1413 [14:57:28] <openbsdtai123> hi
1414 [14:57:53] <openbsdtai123> What was the name of terminal
multiplexor in 2002 : DVM? TVM? (look like screen or today tmux)?
1415 [14:59:04] <movl> dvtm?
1416 [14:59:20] <openbsdtai123> superbe!!!
1417 [14:59:36] <openbsdtai123> how can you remember this? I cant
believe.
1418 [14:59:58] <movl> still using it from time to time
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1420 [15:00:18] <petn-randall> hehehe :)
1421 [15:00:20] <openbsdtai123> yeah... but no one knows or talks
about it since years
1422 [15:01:34] *** Joins: mYnDstrEAm (~mYnDstrEA@replaced-ip )
1423 [15:01:38] <movl> afaics, last commit made in 2018
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1427 [15:04:03] <openbsdtai123> I am compiling 0.12 dvtm
1428 [15:04:11] <openbsdtai123> the 0.15 is impossible to compile
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1433 [15:05:10] <nyov> you compile it?
1434 [15:05:13] <nyov> ,dvtm
1435 [15:05:19] <nyov> ,v dvtm
1436 [15:05:20] <judd> Package: dvtm on amd64 -- jessie: 0.12-1;
stretch: 0.15-2; stretch-backports: 0.15+40.g311a8c0-1~bpo9+1;
bullseye: 0.15+40.g311a8c0-1; buster: 0.15+40.g311a8c0-1; sid:
0.15+40.g311a8c0-1
1437 [15:05:34] <nyov> lol
1438 [15:05:45] <nyov> 20 years old, who cares :>
1439 [15:05:45] <openbsdtai123> I compiled 0.12
1440 [15:06:11] <petn-randall> openbsdtai123: Just install 0.15
from the repos.
1441 [15:06:23] <nyov> probably is on openbsd though
1442 [15:06:31] <openbsdtai123> seems that 0.15 is broken Makefile
already. most like modern compilation worlds of Linux ... automake
stuffs needing thousand libs
1443 [15:06:56] <openbsdtai123> Sure, I compile mostly all by hand
by necessity.
1444 [15:07:45] <openbsdtai123> I will fork dvtm ;)
1445 [15:07:50] <nyov> so you came to #debian to get help from the
neckbeards? is that it?
1446 [15:08:20] *** Joins: Sora (~Guest@replaced-ip )
1447 [15:08:20] <openbsdtai123> I am UNIX AND LINUX since
Slackware 1.0 ;)
1448 [15:08:24] <Sora> hi guys emergency
1449 [15:08:30] <Sora> i am stuck at "Waiting for encrypted
source device..."
1450 [15:08:36] <Sora> of swap? partition i guess, its a uuid
1451 [15:08:39] <Sora> how do I fix this
1452 [15:08:57] <openbsdtai123> nyov: how many years of *nix?
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1454 [15:10:22] *** Joins: Silicium (~Silicium@replaced-ip )
1455 [15:10:24] <Silicium> hi there
1456 [15:11:23] <nyov> openbsdtai123: "development starting
in the 1970s at the Bell Labs research center..." I think that
makes it ~ 50 years old now
1457 [15:11:39] <openbsdtai123> petn-randall: I dont install if
the compilation is not clean.
1458 [15:11:42] *** Joins: saundkim (~saundkim@replaced-ip )
1459 [15:11:46] <Silicium> apt-cache policy <package> shows
a fine version table but no candidate. installint the package with
package=$version installs the package with success but otherwise apt
sais "no candidate"
1460 [15:11:49] *** Quits: magic_ninja_work (~sparkie1@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
1461 [15:11:51] <Silicium> how is that possible?
1462 [15:12:15] <Silicium> its an third party repository
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1464 [15:12:35] <openbsdtai123> nyov: not bad, older than me and
more exp. Did you work at Bell Labs? If yes, respect.
1465 [15:12:35] *** Parts: mbernardi (~mbernardi@replaced-ip ) ()
1466 [15:12:54] <nyov> ? me? nope :p
1467 [15:12:58] <openbsdtai123> Did you met Ken or Dennis?
1468 [15:13:06] <openbsdtai123> (meet)
1469 [15:13:30] <nyov> i dont know unix. i only know debian
1470 [15:14:00] <nyov> I guess I should say..
"GNU/Linux" to be correct
1471 [15:14:11] <Silicium> debian sucks but its the less worst of
all systems, thats why i use it since 15 years :(
1472 [15:14:20] <openbsdtai123> ah... I would like to know more
about bell lab history... just magical place - this was the right
learning experience by excellence
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1475 [15:15:57] <nyov> Sora: that isn't enough information to
help you really. who or what says "Waiting for encrypted source
device..."?
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1495 [15:26:59] <jelly> Sora: try choosing an older kernel in grub
menu list, for a start
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1499 [15:27:36] <jelly> Sora: do you actually have any encrypted
disk?
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1541 [15:51:10] <cutebit> How would I fix this issue? (nvidia
drivers broke, trying to uninstall and reinstall nvidia-driver
doesnot work)
replaced-url
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1544 [15:52:30] <cutebit> Perhaps this would be better suited to
#debian-next, my apologizes
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1549 [15:53:29] <petn-randall> cutebit: Can you share the output
of `apt-cache policy nvidia-kernel-dkms`? →
replaced-url
1550 [15:55:07] <cutebit>
replaced-url
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1552 [15:56:26] <annadane> to me this kind of reads like
"it's not built against the sid kernel yet"
1553 [15:56:31] <annadane> i'm not sure
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1556 [15:57:01] <john_rambo> Please have a look here >>>
replaced-url
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1562 [16:01:02] <ihristov> john_rambo you have to watch on all of
the fields, especially those with ID 5, 9, 177, 195, 199 and 235
1563 [16:01:34] <ihristov> And the results from the short smart
tests
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1565 [16:03:05] <john_rambo> ihristov, Okay ... I will surely do
that but in the meantime can you please tell me what do you think
about the health of my SSD by looking at the report?
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1567 [16:03:44] <petn-randall> john_rambo: `smartctl -H /dev/sdX`
will tell you if smart considers it healthy.
1568 [16:04:19] <ihristov> It's rock solid at the moment :)
1569 [16:05:13] <john_rambo> petn-randall, The output is
"SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED"
1570 [16:05:24] <john_rambo> ihristov, Thanks a lot
1571 [16:06:29] <annadane> anyway yeah cutebit, #debian-next oftc
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1591 [16:12:43] <jhutchins_wk> For practical purposes, running NFS
with default settings through a firewall, do you need to open more
than 111 and 2049? Do you need MOUNTD, STATD, and LOCKD?
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1597 [16:16:42] <jelly> you need them only if you want nfs to
actually work
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1599 [16:17:30] <jelly> IIRC you can hack nfs to ignore locking
with mount options and then you don't need lockd, but it's
probably not a great idea
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1623 [16:32:20] <jhutchins_wk> It seems like 111 and 2049 are the
only ones you actually need unless you're going to an external
server.
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1678 [17:06:16] <cortexman> You're on a list.
replaced-url
1679 [17:06:25] *** Parts: cortexman (18094f91@replaced-ip ) ()
1680 [17:06:26] <tsarompy> can anyone suggest a good cursor
editing/creating program?
1681 [17:07:01] <Minnen> cursor?
1682 [17:07:05] <tsarompy> yz
1683 [17:07:11] <tsarompy> a program to create/edit mouse cursors
1684 [17:07:16] <tsarompy> i googled, i didnt find anything really
1685 [17:07:22] <tsarompy> just an old program from like 06
1686 [17:07:48] <Minnen> i think you should look for a pixel soft
1687 [17:07:58] <tsarompy> i can keep using GIMP no big deal
1688 [17:08:07] <tsarompy> whats up with that creepy message above
about being on a list
1689 [17:08:12] <Minnen>
replaced-url
1690 [17:08:22] *** Quits: zeSoup (~jsc@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving.)
1691 [17:08:39] <Minnen> just a random spammer, he dropped in
several chans linked that and left
1692 [17:08:44] <tsarompy> oh okay
1693 [17:08:56] <tsarompy> kinda creepy :P
1694 [17:09:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1579
1695 [17:09:13] <tsarompy> oh wow i didnt even think to use krita,
thanks
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1697 [17:09:43] <Minnen> :)
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1699 [17:10:09] <b1ack0p> sup
1700 [17:11:08] <tsarompy> hai
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1784 [17:56:15] <jhutchins_wk> ,v ansible
1785 [17:56:16] <judd> Package: ansible on amd64 -- jessie:
1.7.2+dfsg-2; jessie-security: 1.7.2+dfsg-2+deb8u2; stretch:
2.2.1.0-2+deb9u1; stretch-security: 2.2.1.0-2+deb9u1;
stretch-backports: 2.7.5+dfsg-1~bpo9+1; buster: 2.7.7+dfsg-1;
bullseye: 2.9.2+dfsg-1; sid: 2.9.2+dfsg-1
1786 [17:56:47] <jhutchins_wk> Probably need to request a
backport, there are significant fixes in 2.8.
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1811 [18:10:20] <Sora> nyov: the issue was fixed
1812 [18:10:23] <Sora> partially
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1815 [18:10:49] <Sora> i still don't have any swap partition
but idrc
1816 [18:10:58] <jelly> ,checkbackport ansible
1817 [18:10:59] <judd> Backporting package ansible in
sid→buster/amd64: all build-dependencies satisfied using
buster.
1818 [18:11:02] <Sora> sdm5_crypt
UUID=94206e12-20fb-463b-b568-41fc767548f7 /dev/urandom
swap,ciper=aes-xts-plain64,size=256
1819 [18:11:04] <Sora> in my crypt tab
1820 [18:11:13] <jelly> jhutchins_wk: do it yourself!
1821 [18:11:15] <Sora> but this uuid doesn't seem to exist on
my system any more
1822 [18:11:23] <Sora> so it just fails to decrypt at boot
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1824 [18:11:39] <Sora> /dev/sdm5: PARTUUID="47f7f984-05"
1825 [18:11:53] <Sora> no uuid, only a PARTUUID
1826 [18:11:54] <Sora> weird
1827 [18:11:56] <nyov> that is one weird uuid
1828 [18:12:15] <Sora> so my partition lost its uuid somehow
1829 [18:12:21] <jelly> is "ciper" a typo?
1830 [18:12:32] <Sora> i dont think so
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1833 [18:12:55] <nyov> I would think so. context?
1834 [18:12:57] <Sora> i think the partition needs a filesystem to
have a uuid?
1835 [18:13:00] <Sora> this is crypttab
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1838 [18:13:13] <jhutchins_wk> ,checkbackport ansible
1839 [18:13:14] <judd> Backporting package ansible in
sid→buster/amd64: all build-dependencies satisfied using
buster.
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1841 [18:13:25] <jhutchins_wk> Ok, doesn't auto-detect the
release.
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1843 [18:13:49] <Sora> so i should change my crypttab to
/dev/disk/by-partuuid/47f7f984-05
1844 [18:13:56] <Sora> instead of
UUID=94206e12-20fb-463b-b568-41fc767548f7
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1854 [18:16:42] <Sora> does a system with 256GB of ram even need a
swap partition on an sd card
1855 [18:16:44] <Sora> i dont think so
1856 [18:16:47] <Sora> i should probably just disable swap
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1860 [18:17:13] <nyov> on an sd card? yes, definitely disable that
crap xD
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1862 [18:17:29] <nyov> no wonder it changed uuid
1863 [18:17:34] <Sora> right how do I disable swap, comment out
it's entry in /etc/fstab?
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1865 [18:18:17] <Sora> at the moment i have 0 bytes swap because
swap failed to enable at boot due to faulty crypttab
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1872 [18:24:09] <nyov> Sora: swapoff -a
1873 [18:24:14] <nyov> then disable it in fstab
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1903 [18:47:32] <petn-randall> jhutchins_wk: Should be a straight
forward recompile.
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1906 [18:49:42] <mason> Sora: Fix crypttab, systemctl restart
cryptsetup.target
1907 [18:49:44] <mason> iirc
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1914 [18:55:31] <jhutchins_wk> petn-randall: Ansible recommends
using the Ubuntu ppa for stretch (which is what I have).
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1918 [18:55:31] <jhutchins_wk> Upgrade/Install went smoothly and
it runs as expected.
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1935 [19:02:56] <J0P3YE> I'm trying to use youtube-dl, but it
seems that I need to upgrade the version, however when I type
"youtube-dl -U" I get "youtube-dl: error:
youtube-dl's self-update mechanism is disabled on Debian."
What do I need to do to get latest working version?
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1938 [19:03:38] <ksk> J0P3YE: get youtube-dl from its creator,
dont use the packaged vesion.
1939 [19:04:25] *** Joins: lexxus (~Android@replaced-ip )
1940 [19:04:37] <ksk> (youtube updates its services far too often,
and debian has a policy of "not changing" software in a
release)
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1944 [19:05:48] <nkuttler> J0P3YE: you can just pip install it if
you have pip
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1947 [19:07:52] <mukesh> print 1 to 100 no. in single for loop in
column
1948 [19:08:00] <J0P3YE> nkuttler: Not sure. I've got stock
Debian 10.2 for the most part..
1949 [19:08:12] <mukesh> ok
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1951 [19:08:29] <J0P3YE> ..doesn't look like pip is
installed.
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1954 [19:09:11] <ksk> J0P3YE: "sudo apt install
python3-pip"
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1956 [19:09:49] <ksk> then, as a normal (non-root) user, run:
"pip3 install youtube-dl"
1957 [19:10:01] <J0P3YE> ksk: Thanks.
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1963 [19:13:56] <sillyslux> aw man, synergy is missing in buster?
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1967 [19:15:26] <ksk> ,v synergy
1968 [19:15:27] <judd> Package: synergy on amd64 -- jessie:
1.4.16-1+deb8u1; stretch: 1.4.16-2
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1970 [19:18:24] <ksk> mhh, there was some elegant way to find the
bugreport containing information why it did not make it into buster,
but I forgot about it.
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1973 [19:19:19] <ksk> see
replaced-url
1974 [19:19:20] <judd> Bug
replaced-url
1975 [19:19:28] <ksk> sillyslux: ^
1976 [19:19:44] <sillyslux> ty
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1980 [19:21:03] <ksk> mhhm, looking at upstream, seems its closed
source and also not free (as in free beer) anymore - so that might
be the real reason ;)
1981 [19:21:12] *** Joins: pncl (~pncl____@replaced-ip )
1982 [19:21:51] *** Joins: mibo (~mibo@replaced-ip )
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1984 [19:23:13] *** Quits: xet7 (~xet7@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1985 [19:24:01] <sillyslux> nobody needs their closed source gui
as long as the daemon and client are still free and do what
they're supposed to
1986 [19:24:50] <jelly> judd: bug rm synergy
1987 [19:24:51] <sillyslux> this should be split into two packages
then :/
1988 [19:24:53] <judd> Bug
replaced-url
1989 [19:24:57] *** Joins: spacebison (~bison@replaced-ip )
1990 [19:25:37] <jelly> the removal bug ^ says: Please remove
synergy. It's orphaned and RC-buggy for a while and
there's a maintained fork in the archive (barrier).
1991 [19:25:39] <J0P3YE> ksk: I have done what you suggested, but
when I type "youtube-dl --version" I get "bash:
/usr/bin/youtube-dl: No such file or directory"
1992 [19:26:07] <jelly> .maintainer barrier
1993 [19:26:11] *** Joins: xet7 (~xet7@replaced-ip )
1994 [19:26:12] <jelly> ,maintainer barrier
1995 [19:26:14] <judd> Sorry, there is no record of
'barrier'.
1996 [19:26:20] *** Parts: diogenes_ (~diogenes_@replaced-ip ) ("vergissmeinnicht")
1997 [19:26:36] <jelly> ,i barrier
1998 [19:26:38] <judd> Package barrier (x11, optional) in
buster/amd64: Share mouse, keyboard and clipboard over the network.
Version: 2.1.2+dfsg-1; Size: 588.4k; Installed: 2583k; Homepage:
replaced-url
1999 [19:26:41] *** Quits: m0u (~m0u@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2000 [19:26:59] <jelly> so maybe try that, sillyslux
2001 [19:27:04] <sponix2ipfw> ,v barrier
2002 [19:27:05] <judd> Package: barrier on amd64 --
stretch-backports: 2.1.2+dfsg-1~bpo9+1; buster: 2.1.2+dfsg-1;
bullseye: 2.3.2+dfsg-1+b1; sid: 2.3.2+dfsg-1+b1
2003 [19:27:12] *** Joins: zerotech (~zerotech@replaced-ip )
2004 [19:27:18] <sponix2ipfw> nice
2005 [19:28:00] <sillyslux> lol, i can do the same as i do with
xvnc4viewer
2006 [19:28:08] <jelly> J0P3YE: run "hash -r" to make
bash re-read the PATH
2007 [19:28:10] *** Quits: ensamvarg (~ensamvarg@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2008 [19:28:18] <sillyslux> wget
replaced-url
2009 [19:28:35] <ksk> sillyslux: eh? you are doing it wrong.
2010 [19:28:42] <jelly> that's not how packages are supposed
to be installed in Debian
2011 [19:28:46] <sillyslux> yes, i believe so
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2013 [19:28:49] *** Joins: twobitsprite (~ifreeman@replaced-ip )
2014 [19:28:56] <nyov> xD
2015 [19:29:05] <sillyslux> just don't tell anybody
2016 [19:29:09] *** Quits: enseneo (~madneap@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2017 [19:30:13] <sillyslux> moments ago i didn't see the
mouse cursor in vnc, now i do :P
2018 [19:30:42] <J0P3YE> jelly: Still no dice, "bash:
youtube-dl: command not found"
2019 [19:31:44] *** Joins: enseneo (~madneap@replaced-ip )
2020 [19:31:49] <jelly> J0P3YE: ah. I don't know where stuff
installed with pip as normal user ends up.
2021 [19:31:58] *** Joins: G1gaX (~Gabriel1@replaced-ip )
2022 [19:32:26] <jelly> whoever told you to use pip might know
2023 [19:32:53] <ksk> I dont. gimme a sec :D
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2025 [19:33:11] <J0P3YE> Requirement already satisfied: youtube-dl
in /home/patrick/.local/lib/python3.7/site-packages (2020.1.24)
2026 [19:33:19] <ksk> J0P3YE: ehm, "pip3 install
youtube-dl" did tell you, no? :P
2027 [19:33:38] <ksk> "The script youtube-dl is installed in
'/home/ksk/.local/bin' which is not on PATH." it
tells me.
2028 [19:33:39] <jelly> J0P3YE: is it in /home/patrick/.local/bin
maybe then?
2029 [19:34:03] *** Quits: kolla (~kolla@replaced-ip ) (Quit: %fog relay%)
2030 [19:34:52] <J0P3YE> jelly: yes
2031 [19:34:57] * jelly wonders who invented ~/.local/bin and when,
sounds like something xdg / freedesktop.org people would do
2032 [19:34:59] *** Quits: mo1991 (~mo1991@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2033 [19:35:09] * jelly disapproves
2034 [19:35:24] <ksk> jelly: where else to put it (without root
privileges)?
2035 [19:35:45] <sillyslux> i have a ~/.bin folder and added that
to PATH
2036 [19:35:47] <jelly> ksk: I've had ~/bin for more than 2
decades.
2037 [19:35:52] *** Joins: mo1991 (~mo1991@replaced-ip )
2038 [19:35:54] <ksk> I see.
2039 [19:36:03] <J0P3YE> So how to run?
2040 [19:36:31] <jelly> J0P3YE: either use full path, or add
$HOME/.local/bin to your PATH
2041 [19:36:42] *** Joins: kolla (~kolla@replaced-ip )
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2043 [19:37:33] *** Joins: mcnugit
(~User2.0@ip68-111-216-211.sd.sd.cox.net)
2044 [19:37:34] <sillyslux> tilde is not expanded
2045 [19:38:17] <J0P3YE> How so? This is all bit new to me still.
2046 [19:39:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1579
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2048 [19:41:51] <J0P3YE> paste.debian.net/1128376
2049 [19:43:02] <jelly> J0P3YE: what's in the script is less
important than whether it actually works.
2050 [19:43:21] <jelly> J0P3YE: what happens if you run:
~/.local/bin/youtube-dl
2051 [19:43:26] <ksk> J0P3YE: add "export
PATH="$PATH:/home/patrick/.local/bin" to your shells
startup file (~/.bashrc for bash)
2052 [19:43:39] *** Quits: TorpedoSkyline (~TorpedoSk@replaced-ip ) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2053 [19:43:49] *** Quits: Scribus (~Scribus@replaced-ip ) (Quit: bye)
2054 [19:44:03] <ksk> J0P3YE: see
replaced-url
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2057 [19:45:27] <jelly> J0P3YE: or, what happens when you run:
/home/patrick/.local/bin/youtube-dl
2058 [19:45:45] *** Joins: xcm (~xcm@replaced-ip )
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2061 [19:47:57] <J0P3YE> jelly: It appears to run youtube-dl, then
back to command prompt.
2062 [19:49:27] <jelly> so it works
2063 [19:49:43] <J0P3YE> It works, and quits.
2064 [19:50:08] <jelly> that seems normal when you don't give
it any URL or options, yes
2065 [19:50:20] <J0P3YE> Thanks.
2066 [19:50:35] *** Joins: ctcx (~user@replaced-ip )
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2068 [19:51:03] *** Parts: ctcx (~user@replaced-ip ) ()
2069 [19:51:28] <jelly> the PATH variable keeps a list of
directories that your shell will check for executable commands so
you don't have to write the full path for those
2070 [19:51:39] *** Joins: oish (~charlie@replaced-ip )
2071 [19:51:50] <jelly> this is why running just "ls"
works, even if the command is actually /bin/ls
2072 [19:53:37] *** Joins: TorpedoSkyline (~TorpedoSk@replaced-ip )
2073 [19:54:09] *** Quits: bashquest (~bash0r@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2074 [19:54:29] <J0P3YE> Ah.
2075 [19:54:56] *** Quits: sillyslux (~sillyslux@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2076 [19:54:57] <J0P3YE> Well, I'm learning. Thanks guys for
teaching.
2077 [19:55:04] <J0P3YE> (and gals)
2078 [19:55:28] *** Joins: sillyslux (~sillyslux@replaced-ip )
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2097 [20:05:24] <empresses> heh lol.. can you make a server
autoupdate and autrestart updated services?
2098 [20:05:25] *** Quits: BlueByte (~walther@replaced-ip ) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2099 [20:05:44] <empresses> I just wanna throw up a server and
just leave it there to do whatever for whatever time.
2100 [20:06:18] *** Quits: tsarompy (~tsarompy@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2101 [20:06:28] <GNU\colossus> debian restarts services whenever
they're upgraded. you can also employ `checkrestart` for that
purpose for when services' dependencies (shared libs) get
upgraded.
2102 [20:06:43] *** Quits: nku (~nku@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2103 [20:06:47] *** Quits: RoXX (~roxx@replaced-ip##) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: ##replaced-url
2104 [20:06:53] <GNU\colossus> combine that with cron-apt or
something similar, and you're close to what you seek
2105 [20:07:12] <annadane> does it though?
2106 [20:07:20] <annadane> because sometimes needrestart prompts
me...
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2109 [20:09:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1570
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2111 [20:11:19] <nyov> that probably is like what checkrestart
does. looking for updated deps
2112 [20:11:42] <annadane> right, but if debian restarts services
automatically...
2113 [20:11:42] *** Quits: beinbliss4 (~beinbliss@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2114 [20:11:46] <GNU\colossus> needsrestart is more comprehensive
2115 [20:12:04] *** Joins: beinbliss4 (~beinbliss@replaced-ip )
2116 [20:12:13] <GNU\colossus> (than checkrestart)
2117 [20:13:07] <annadane> i always install needrestart, not sure
how people run debian without it
2118 [20:13:19] <spacebug^> isn't there also
'unattended-upgrades' for upgrading. But I don't know
if you can make it restart also?
2119 [20:13:43] <nyov> annadane: true. I admit, I never had
checkrestart/needrestart/... on any of my debian servers. I just
left them running as they were after any upgrades
2120 [20:14:08] <nyov> maybe on libc updates, I did a bit more
comprehensive checks. but apt does even that
2121 [20:15:10] *** Joins: xxdxxd (~xxdxxd@replaced-ip )
2122 [20:15:11] <nyov> so i wasn't really worried about maybe
*some* library still being loaded as an older version
2123 [20:15:33] <annadane> but i just don't understand how if
debian does service restarts why i need a package like needrestart
that still offers to restart services
2124 [20:16:13] <annadane> why is it offering if debian has
already done it
2125 [20:16:21] <nyov> don't ask me. i thought that was an
ubuntu thing :p
2126 [20:16:30] *** Quits: TorpedoSkyline (~TorpedoSk@replaced-ip ) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2127 [20:16:37] <petn-randall> If a library gets upgraded, the
depending service may be not get restarted.
2128 [20:16:56] <annadane> so then i *should* have this package
installed
2129 [20:17:10] <annadane> you almost feel like it should be
installed by default
2130 [20:17:22] <petn-randall> That's what needrestart does;
it checks for services that still have the old libs opened, and will
offer to restart them.
2131 [20:18:10] *** Joins: twobitsp1ite (~ifreeman@replaced-ip )
2132 [20:18:22] <nyov> I think that's for the paranoid server
admins. desktop users restart every other day anyway, right?
2133 [20:18:29] <spacebug^> so checlrestart/needrestart is for
restarting services when needed, not the computer after say a kernel
upgrade?
2134 [20:18:50] <annadane> no? desktop users realize that linux !=
windows and so don't reboot for every little thing
2135 [20:19:05] <annadane> right, "restart services",
not "restart computer"
2136 [20:19:25] <spacebug^> I see, thanks
2137 [20:20:01] <empresses> so if I have nginx and a database
running, those services will be restarted by default when upgraded?
2138 [20:20:17] <annadane> i suppose needrestart really isn't
all that "required", it would be a severe debian flaw if
you could exploit a security vuln because someone didn't
install an optional package and so weren't alerted of service
restarts
2139 [20:20:31] <annadane> but it's just weird
2140 [20:20:35] <petn-randall> empresses: If the nginx itself gets
upgraded, yes. Not if a library it depends on gets upgraded.
That's what you need "needrestart" for.
2141 [20:20:36] <annadane> i have no idea what's going on
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2144 [20:21:01] *** Joins: Akuw_ (~Akuw@replaced-ip )
2145 [20:21:21] <empresses> annadane: I thing petn-randall just
explained why it's needed :P
2146 [20:21:22] <Akuw_> i have a usb stick to install debian, how
can i backup usb in a folder ?
2147 [20:21:33] *** Joins: pringau (~pringau@replaced-ip )
2148 [20:21:52] <empresses> Akuw_: what do you mean? Do you mean
how you can backup the usb into a file?
2149 [20:21:57] <annadane> okay so it's a 2 step thing
2150 [20:22:03] *** Quits: l9 (~muad@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2151 [20:22:13] <annadane> still, debian probably should tell you
you should install it or have it installed by default
2152 [20:22:22] <Akuw_> empresses: in one directory
2153 [20:23:08] *** Joins: instabin1 (~instabin3@replaced-ip )
2154 [20:23:23] <annadane> ,v needrestart
2155 [20:23:24] <judd> Package: needrestart on amd64 -- jessie:
1.2-8+deb8u1; stretch: 2.11-3+deb9u1; stretch-backports:
3.4-5~bpo9+1; buster: 3.4-5; bullseye: 3.4-6; sid: 3.4-6
2156 [20:23:33] <empresses> what's the difference between
needrestart and checkrestart?
2157 [20:23:56] <annadane> i probably should just try running
without needrestart and just trusting the debian defaults
2158 [20:23:56] *** Quits: Slashman (~Slash@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
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2161 [20:24:24] <nyov> "the needrestart program uses a
different logic to determine which services should be restarted
based on deleted files. Results might not be exactly the same as
those provided by checkrestart"
2162 [20:24:28] <nyov> from checkrestart man page
2163 [20:24:44] <empresses> Akuw_: I do not understand what you
want to do
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2165 [20:25:07] <annadane> i should clarify, trusting the defaults
in Stable
2166 [20:25:11] <annadane> testing/sid, you're on your own
2167 [20:25:34] <empresses> Akuw_: you have an usb boot disk with
debian.. and you want to back up that boot disk? Why?
2168 [20:25:40] <Akuw_> empresses: i have a boot usb stick with
debain, so i need to make a backup of that in my server
2169 [20:25:49] <Akuw_> empresses: that is all
2170 [20:26:16] <empresses> Akuw_: the newest boot disks are
available on the internet, you can always download the latest iso
and make a new one
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2173 [20:26:38] <Akuw_> empresses: its a custom one with preseed
2174 [20:26:39] *** Quits: Hunterkll (~hunterkll@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2175 [20:26:41] <empresses> or is this an encryption key for the
boot?
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2180 [20:27:18] <jhutchins_wk> Akuw_: Or just save the .iso file
you downloaded somewhere.
2181 [20:27:25] *** Joins: rick_s (~Rowlf@replaced-ip )
2182 [20:27:49] <empresses> Akuw_: you can just dd
if=/dev/(usb-disk) of=my_backup_file .. this will be slow though so
you need to add bs=4M
2183 [20:28:02] *** Joins: xcm (~xcm@replaced-ip )
2184 [20:28:05] <empresses> dd if=/dev/(usb-disk)
of=my_backup_file bs=4M
2185 [20:28:09] *** Joins: Hunterkll (~hunterkll@replaced-ip )
2186 [20:28:22] <empresses> and when you want to
"restore" the usb, you just switch the if and of
arguments:
2187 [20:28:29] <empresses> dd of=/dev/(usb-disk)
if=my_backup_file bs=4M
2188 [20:28:54] <joepublic> if "patiently wait" is not
your strong suit, you might use dclfdd instead of dd which gives
progress report without having to be asked.
2189 [20:29:32] <empresses> joepublic: status=progress as argument
to dd does the trick
2190 [20:30:00] *** Joins: DirkS (~DirkS@replaced-ip )
2191 [20:30:02] <spacebug^> joepublic: 'apt search
dclfdd' finds nothing?
2192 [20:30:04] <Akuw_> empresses: i am using rsync and will copy
to another usb stick to see what happen
2193 [20:30:24] <joepublic> sorry, dcfldd
2194 [20:30:36] <spacebug^> ah thanks
2195 [20:30:37] <empresses> Akuw_: it will not work. The usb must
be configured with a boot loader etc.
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2199 [20:33:26] <Akuw_> doint second dd if=/dev/sdb1
of=/home/bakup"
2200 [20:34:00] <joepublic> unless "bakup" is a file you
are creating for some reason in /home, that's probably not what
you want.
2201 [20:34:55] <nyov> and also, that dd won't catch the mbr
which is outside the partition
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2210 [20:48:29] <Akuw_> what is the procedure to clone one hard
disk that will be installed in same hardware
2211 [20:48:46] <Akuw_> last time i used dd comand, bute when boot
i got some errors
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2215 [20:52:08] <towo`> Akuw_, without showing the exact command,
no one will help you
2216 [20:52:51] <Akuw_> dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/sdb
2217 [20:53:15] <towo`> and the errors are?
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2224 [20:57:25] <jhutchins_wk> Akuw_: First off, if you try to
clone a disk that you're running the OS from you will probably
not get what you want. You need to boot from something else, like a
rescue CD. There is a live system called Clonezilla that has a
collection of tools for this kind of task.
2225 [20:57:34] <jhutchins_wk> !clonezilla
2226 [20:57:34] <dpkg> Clonezilla Live is a live CD based on
Debian, providing disk/partition cloning functionality similar to
Symantec Ghost. Basically a front-end to <partimage>,
<partclone>, <ntfsclone>, sfdisk and others.
replaced-url
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2232 [21:00:15] <annadane> that factoid needs to be changed
2233 [21:00:26] <annadane> oh
2234 [21:00:31] <annadane> no, because you meant the live system
2235 [21:00:39] <annadane> but in general there needs to be a
factoid for the pakcage
2236 [21:00:43] <annadane> package
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2238 [21:01:00] <ksk> ,info clonezilla
2239 [21:01:01] <judd> Package clonezilla (admin, optional) in
buster/amd64: bare metal backup and recovery of disk drives.
Version: 3.27.16-3; Size: 841.6k; Installed: 2982k; Homepage:
replaced-url
2240 [21:01:03] <ksk> should be enough ;)
2241 [21:01:31] <Akuw_> i will check clonezilla
2242 [21:01:47] <spacebug^> So it seems I don't have to
change stuff in '/etc/systemd/logind.conf' to be able to
make update my group belongings. I only have to kill
'/lib/systemd/systemd --user' for my user.
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2252 [21:06:26] <tinga> Hi. How do you deal with freezes due to a
process eating all of memory (like accidental endless recursion in a
program you write)?
2253 [21:07:01] <GNU\colossus> ,v earlyoom
2254 [21:07:02] <judd> Package: earlyoom on amd64 -- buster:
1.2-1; bullseye: 1.3-2; sid: 1.3-2
2255 [21:07:09] <GNU\colossus> you can try that, tinga
2256 [21:07:30] <ksk> tinga: you can utilize cgroups and
namespaces to restrict a programme.
2257 [21:07:43] <tinga> Apparently Magic SysRq is one thing people
do. I never really understood how those worked, and in fact disabled
sysrq on purpose some years ago after i figured out that when I hung
the machine by pressing some keys that this was because of it.
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2261 [21:09:20] <tinga> ksk, I tried ulimit, but it's pretty
much impossible to use well: firefox doesn't just crash when
running into it, but starts to show corruptions--i.e. is insecure
with it. And the programs I'm writing often need 3/4 of my RAM,
so I can't go below that, but then sometimes I've got open
some large programs like browsers and then 3/4 is too much.
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2264 [21:09:55] <tinga> I'm pining the linux 2.2 days so
much, back then it was no problem at all. The computer remained
responsive.
2265 [21:10:18] <tinga> Checking earlyoom
2266 [21:10:29] <ksk> I doubt that. Sounds like you are doing it
wrong.
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2268 [21:10:42] <tinga> Doubt what?
2269 [21:11:00] <ksk> OOM handling has really improved in
"recent" kernels.
2270 [21:11:16] <ksk> also, are you using swap? why not?
2271 [21:11:33] <tinga> How am I doing it wrong if my computer
doesn't respond at all for 15 minutes?
2272 [21:11:52] <tinga> I do have swap, 4 GB.
2273 [21:11:56] *** Joins: soee (~soee@replaced-ip )
2274 [21:12:21] <tinga> Note that I can't even log into it
via ssh in those 15 minutes.
2275 [21:12:26] *** Joins: bertbob (~bertbob@replaced-ip )
2276 [21:12:39] <tinga> Nor does it allow to switch to the
console.
2277 [21:12:44] <ksk> Did you disable oom killer? in what state is
your system when that happens?
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2280 [21:13:06] <ksk> oom killer should kick in rather fast if you
are oom, and make the box usable again..
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2282 [21:13:42] *** Quits: maratsal (~maratsal@replaced-ip ) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2283 [21:13:58] <tinga> I've got an open xfce4 session,
various programs open. I program along, try out a program, it
recurses endlessly by accident, i say "oh," ctl-c, but
it's too late. Hit ctl-c 10 more times, mouse still moves but 3
seconds later everything's dead. Picture still up bot nothing
moving at all.
2284 [21:14:08] *** Joins: bouba (~bouba@replaced-ip )
2285 [21:14:26] <tinga> I go to the other computer, try to ssh in,
but no reaction.
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2287 [21:15:19] <ksk> if you built a fork-bomb linux is not able
to mitigate that. put it in a process-number/memory-limited cgroup.
2288 [21:15:23] *** Joins: maratsal (~maratsal@replaced-ip )
2289 [21:15:57] <tinga> It's not a fork bomb. Recursion
within the same process.
2290 [21:16:19] <tinga> In a language that uses heap memory for
stack.
2291 [21:17:53] <tinga> I don't remember ever having fiddled
around with the OOM settings. Not sure which proc files to check
what's set up.
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2294 [21:19:07] <tinga> <OOM handling has really improved in
"recent" kernels.>: in what ways? Linux was due to
improve ever since the regressions in 2.4, and I have never seen it.
2295 [21:19:57] <tinga> I'm power cycling my dev laptop about
once every 2-3 weeks because of that.
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2300 [21:22:48] <tinga> This question mirrors my issues:
replaced-url
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2302 [21:23:11] <ratrace> if you're OOM-ing that often you
REALLY need more RAM
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2305 [21:23:55] <GNU\colossus> tinga, I don't use swap, and
don't have your problems.
2306 [21:24:03] <tinga> ratrace, I always OOM by accident, usually
due to a buggy program of mine
2307 [21:24:10] <tinga> I'd just OOM with more RAM as well.
2308 [21:24:11] <ratrace> no swap under memory pressure would only
lead to much more problems
2309 [21:24:40] <ksk> tinga: I can repeat it a third time: put
your programme into a memory limited cgroup.
2310 [21:24:54] <GNU\colossus> tinga, I'd try disabling swap,
and adjust your programs' oom_score accordingly
2311 [21:24:57] <jhutchins_wk> tinga: Depending on the language,
there may be ways you can set limits on what it can use. That will
protect other processes.
2312 [21:25:17] <GNU\colossus> also, what ksk said
2313 [21:25:27] <jhutchins_wk> ksk: They may not know what a
cgroup is.
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2315 [21:25:57] <ratrace> don't disable swap if you have
memory pressure situations:
replaced-url
2316 [21:26:05] <jhutchins_wk> tinga: There's an OOMkiller
that will stop the runaway program, I thought it was standard but
maybe not.
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2318 [21:26:09] <tinga> GNU\colossus, I do. But the ulimit is too
large if I've got too many browsers open when it happens. The
lang env I use does need tons of memory for gcc, so I need to give
it that; gcc isn't an issue.
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2320 [21:26:32] <tinga> So, yes, I could buy a new machine to be
able to put in more RAM. But I hate having to do that. Linux
shouldn't freeze!
2321 [21:26:42] <tinga> Also I don't have the money right
now.
2322 [21:27:14] <tinga> jhutchins_wk, yes, I *want* the kernel to
kill my program, but it doesn't do it. I want to figure out
why.
2323 [21:27:20] *** Joins: angerctl (~Namarrgon@replaced-ip )
2324 [21:28:33] <tinga> (The only reason to buy more RAM is so
that linux doens't freeze. In normal situations I've got
enough. And if I had more RAM, I'd be more careless programming
with it!)
2325 [21:28:41] <GNU\colossus> tinga, have your program(s) write
"1000\n" to /proc/self/oom_score_adj
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2328 [21:28:58] <jhutchins_wk>
replaced-url
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2330 [21:29:54] <GNU\colossus> or run it under `choom`
2331 [21:29:55] <tinga> GNU\colossus, is this inherited across
exec?
2332 [21:30:09] <jhutchins_wk>
replaced-url
2333 [21:30:13] <GNU\colossus> tinga, I don't know for sure,
but I don't think so. that's where choom would come in
handy
2334 [21:30:50] <tinga> GNU\colossus, where can I find choom? Not
in oldstable.
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2340 [21:31:07] <jhutchins_wk> !oom
2341 [21:31:08] <dpkg> what a woc says. Out Of Memory, or
replaced-url
2342 [21:31:14] <GNU\colossus> tinga, stable has it in util-linux
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2346 [21:32:02] <spacebug^> I'm trying to set umask for
sftp-only users. I have 'ForceCommand internal-sftp -u
007' but the user still get lower rights than expected.
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2349 [21:32:34] <jhutchins_wk> tinga: From what I see, it's
part of the standard kernel memory management stack. We have bad
code that occasionally triggers it.
2350 [21:32:58] <jhutchins_wk> tinga: You get a system-wide freeze
instead of just the process?
2351 [21:33:11] *** Quits: Akuw (~Akuw___@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2352 [21:33:24] <tinga> jhutchins_wk, yes, X, sshd, everything
freezes, well, I think at least in some cases it continues to work
the disk.
2353 [21:33:38] *** Quits: AgTh (~b50c6@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2354 [21:33:43] <tinga> But once it's gone for 1-2 minutes
I've never seen it come back.
2355 [21:34:18] <jhutchins_wk> tinga: Not a coder, but I think
it's a matter of writing your code to the required standards to
honor the OOMKiller and respond correctly for scoring and such.
2356 [21:34:36] *** Quits: Spr1ng (~Spr1ng@replaced-ip ) (Quit: WeeChat 2.7)
2357 [21:34:47] <tinga> Yeah, I'll try writing 1000 to
/proc/self/oom_score_adj
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2359 [21:35:10] <tinga> Still, this should just work(tm). It did
in 2.2 :)
2360 [21:35:22] <jhutchins_wk> tinga: If you're on the
primary console (Ctl-Alt-F1) you should see oom messages. I think
the syslog gets 'em too.
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2374 [21:35:43] <tinga> jhutchins_wk, usually it's too late
to switch to the console.
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2379 [21:35:51] <tinga> (i.e. it won't do it)
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2382 [21:36:00] <jhutchins_wk> tinga: It's not predictable?
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2384 [21:36:38] <jhutchins_wk> tinga: What language are you coding
in?
2385 [21:36:46] <tinga> Experience is always pretty miserable when
I run an endless recursion. But it's especially bad apparently
if I've got many other apps open.
2386 [21:36:52] <tinga> bad=unrecoverable.
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2389 [21:37:02] <tinga> Scheme, usually
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2391 [21:37:39] <tinga> I am using jackd, which uses real-time
priority. But I've seen the same freezes when it wasn't
running.
2392 [21:38:03] *** Quits: conyers (~conyers@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2393 [21:38:08] <tinga> And again, see the link I posted above,
from a guy doing java / C# and seeing the same.
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2397 [21:38:39] <jhutchins_wk> Which release and kernel?
2398 [21:38:50] <tinga> stretch, 4.9.0-9-rt-amd64
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2401 [21:39:26] <tinga> I'll note that I've struggled
with this ever since kernel 2.4 though.
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##replaced-url
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2405 [21:40:00] <tinga> It's become especially bad on this
laptop/release, though, I'd say.
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2409 [21:40:45] <tinga> I used to use resource limits ever since
the 2.4 era; but once I discovered that firefox corrupts memory
because of that I stopped using them for firefox.
2410 [21:40:58] <jhutchins_wk> I don't think there's a
scheme support channel (doesn't sound like it would help), but
there is ##kernel where I would expet people to know more about
memory handling.
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2415 [21:41:30] <tinga> Sure there's #scheme; but yes this
has nothing to do with Scheme really, just languages that don't
have a separate stack limit.
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2419 [21:41:57] <tinga> Wasn't aware of ##kernel, thanks.
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2431 [21:46:55] <tinga> I've grepped kern.log for -i oom, in
the last 30 days there was 1 instance: "cron invoked
oom-killer:". Nothing from today's crash. Also, why would
it kill cron :)
2432 [21:47:30] <ksk> Because oom cannot understand why your
system does not have any memory.
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2434 [21:47:50] <tinga> That's what the scoring is for?
2435 [21:47:50] <ksk> It just looks at the process which killing
would bring the most good to the system
2436 [21:47:59] <tinga> Yes, and cron uses like 500 KB?
2437 [21:48:29] <ksk> you are turning in circles. there have been
some suggestions on how to limit memory usage, why not just try
them.
2438 [21:48:30] <tinga> OK, 3 MB in fact.
2439 [21:49:09] *** Quits: kprice789 (~kprice789@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2440 [21:49:21] <tinga> Can't limit (more than I already do),
will try the score adjust as I said.
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2442 [21:49:40] <ksk> then it seems you just need more ram than is
available.
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2446 [21:51:00] <tinga> I already answered that. I think it's
a kludge to buy more ram just for the case when I run an off
recursion that it has enough reserve so that the ulimit can be high
enough so that it can run into the ulimit.
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2454 [21:56:51] <c0rnelius> could always try zramswap
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2456 [21:57:35] <tinga> I did read about that a few months ago;
came to the conclusion that it probably won't help my case, but
might be wrong. Have you tried it?
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2495 [22:26:31] <tinga> ksk, you told me to use a cgroup, and
thought I didn't heed the advice when I was talking about
ulimit--that's because I, while only losely knowing how cgroups
work, assumed the memory limits in questions are the same (I'm
assuming using the same code path in the kernel in the end) if it
concerns just a single process. Tell me if I'm mistaken.
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2502 [22:29:13] <ksk> you are mistaken.
2503 [22:30:07] <ksk> ulimit is a shell ressource limit, I dont
know how it is applied in fact, but it has been existing like
forever. cgroups are a rather new construct.
2504 [22:30:23] <tinga> I know both. ulimit -v is enforced.
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2506 [22:30:54] <tinga> But I *thought* that cgroup just takes the
same limits (maybe added some new ones) but then makes them
accounted by process *groups* instead of individual processes.
2507 [22:31:06] <ksk> there might be a reason everything new and
nice uses cgroups, but nobody uses ulimits for anything.
2508 [22:31:12] <tinga> Given that I have only a single process
with my program running, there should be no difference, or so I
thought.
2509 [22:31:50] <tinga> There obviously will be a reason if you
want to limit the whole of a docker container instead of the indiv.
processes.
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2511 [22:33:56] <tinga> Also ulimit is just the shell's
interface to setrlimit(2).
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2538 [22:52:46] <tinga> How much swap should one use nowadays?
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2541 [22:53:43] <tinga> (Say, with a machine that has 8 GB of
RAM.)
2542 [22:53:47] <scott34> if you have enough ram, no dont need it.
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2544 [22:54:04] <scott34> what's the programming you run?
2545 [22:54:39] <tinga> This post seems to differ:
replaced-url
2546 [22:55:05] <tinga> scott34, this is a follow-up question on
the issue I was discussing above.
2547 [22:55:40] <tinga> I've currently got 4 GB of swap. 0
swap seems to be very bad, i.e. the algorithms in Linux (and other
Unixes) can't deal with that gracefully.
2548 [22:55:58] <tinga> (That's what the above posts
indicate. I've never run without swap.)
2549 [22:56:27] <tinga> Now, possibly the algorithms can deal just
as badly with *lots* of swap. So, 4 GB might be bad as well.
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2553 [22:57:36] <tinga> It used to be that with linux 2.2 (hah,
I'm bringing this up again) you had no issues at all. With 2.4,
the VM subsystem was overhauled and lots of people started having
issues. Then people generally recommended to have 1.5-2x as much
swap as RAM. Which would mean, 12-16 GB of swap if you've got 8
GB of RAM, nowadays.
2554 [22:57:38] *** Joins: JohnML (~john1@replaced-ip )
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2556 [22:58:17] <tinga> But, I wonder, if you've got that
much swap, then, I guess, Linux might just try to shuffle around
data "forever" until it finally decides that yes, in fact,
something needs to be killed, and finally triggers the OOM killer.
2557 [22:58:21] <dvs> tinga, if you want to put your machine into
hibernate, you need a swap size slightly larger than your RAM.
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2559 [22:58:41] <tinga> dvs, good point, yep, totally forgot about
that. Yep. I'm using hibernate.
2560 [22:58:58] *** Joins: sndragon (~name@replaced-ip )
2561 [22:59:03] <tinga> So, shrug, "not my fault" again.
I'm really not doing anything wrong here :)
2562 [22:59:08] <sndragon> hi
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2564 [23:01:00] <sndragon> have you heard the news of deepin on
huawei pc?
2565 [23:01:21] <sndragon> it is old news
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2567 [23:02:00] <scott34> I dont use linux for desktop. it's
slow .
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2571 [23:03:50] <sndragon> scott34 you use windows is it possible?
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2573 [23:04:04] <sndragon> linux is fast
2574 [23:04:08] <sndragon> :/
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2588 [23:12:21] <dgriffi> has anyone spoken to Daniel Schepler
recently?
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2590 [23:13:17] <at0m> !ot
2591 [23:13:17] <dpkg> #debian is primarily a support channel for
Debian users. Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and
take longer discussions and non-support questions to
#debian-offtopic. Imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of
people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few
minutes every day.
2592 [23:13:26] *** Quits: CaCO3 (~CaCO3@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2593 [23:13:59] <petn-randall> dgriffi: That is an oddly specific
request. Why do you ask?
2594 [23:14:50] <dgriffi> petn-randall: because he maintains (or
maintained) several interactive fiction packages and wrote the X11
interface code for xfrotz.
2595 [23:15:08] <dgriffi> I'm trying to get in touch with him
to clarify something about the license he applied to his X11 code.
2596 [23:15:14] <sndragon> sorry
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2598 [23:15:53] <sndragon> by by
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2600 [23:16:31] <dgriffi> when he wrote it, Frotz was under a
"no commercial use" license. He applied Artistic License
to his code. Since then Stefan Jokich changed Frotz's license
to GPL2 prior to handing it off to me.
2601 [23:16:51] <dgriffi> so, I'm hoping he could explicitly
change the license in his code to GPL2 as well
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2608 [23:18:23] <petn-randall> dgriffi: Have you tried writing him
an email?
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2611 [23:20:05] <sponix2ipfw> maybe he tweets on the tweeter
2612 [23:20:18] <sponix2ipfw> seems nearly everyone is on there
2613 [23:20:43] <teclo-> there's FOSDEM in two days
2614 [23:20:54] <teclo-> maybe will he be there
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2626 [23:26:19] <tinga> GNU\colossus, earlyoom seems to be exactly
what I need, thanks; it's not in oldstable, but here:
replaced-url
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2629 [23:29:00] <dgriffi> petn-randall: yes. that's how
I've been communicating with him all this time.
2630 [23:29:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1532
2631 [23:29:21] <tinga> It feels a bit sick, though--the kernel
really has the best picture of what's going on, and should be
fixed instead.
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2638 [23:34:17] <petn-randall> dgriffi: If you believe he is gone,
you can poke the Debian MIA team about him.
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2643 [23:39:10] <petn-randall> dgriffi: The other option is to ask
in #debian-devel.
2644 [23:42:05] <dgriffi> petn-randall: I could, but it's set
+i.
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2646 [23:44:29] *** Joins: larsks (~larsks@replaced-ip )
2647 [23:45:10] <larsks> Hey folks, I'm not all that familiar
with debian: I'd like to submit a patch to the
'alien' package so that it understands newer
zstd-compressed rpms. Where do I do that?
2648 [23:45:20] *** Joins: cecile (~cecile@replaced-ip )
2649 [23:46:47] <larsks> It looks like upstream is completely
unmaintained. I was curious if it were possible to submit the patch
to debian so at least the package gets updated.
2650 [23:50:55] <jhutchins> ,v alien
2651 [23:50:56] <judd> Package: alien on amd64 -- jessie: 8.92;
bullseye: 8.95; buster: 8.95; sid: 8.95; stretch: 8.95
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context: nick names on moving displays as market values
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