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• 29[00:14:55] <awal1> router wireless network mode 802.11b/g/n (2.4 ghz): a connected device using 802.11g may slow down the bandwidth of the other connected device using 802.11n?
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• 38[00:20:10] <t3st3r> sure, 11g device can slow things down, just because same air time in .n allows to transfer more data.
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• 40[00:20:59] <awal1> that is what I deeduce here experimenting with my router
• 41[00:21:10] <t3st3r> 11g device would spend more air time to exchange same amount of data. Hence overall speed loss.
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• 43[00:22:42] <dirac1> which stuffs are permanent when we configure using iproute2?
• 44[00:22:56] <dirac1> For example: bridge and vlan configuration
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• 47[00:24:44] <awal1> my issue here is that at home there is an xbox running all the time via 2.4 ghz network. I set mode 802.11n ' channel width 40 but the xbox still connects with g. how is that t3st3r?
• 48[00:25:16] <dudz> awal1: where you alive when wifi wasn't the popular choice?
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• 50[00:25:36] <awal1> dudz, yep!
• 51[00:25:41] <dudz> *when there wasn't a choice, only of cable types
• 52[00:25:41] <awal1> better times :D
• 53[00:25:44] <dudz> :)
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• 55[00:26:16] <awal1> if mode n only why that xbox connects via g?
• 56[00:26:27] <dudz> wifi is a popular choice for renters, scared to run cable, even though it would infact, add value to the property
• 57[00:26:35] <t3st3r> awal1> well, I'm not aware of xbox thing or its capabilities or attitude.
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• 60[00:27:29] <dudz> last time i bought a 305m roll was quite some years ago and i still have much of it left, around $130AUD at the time for cat6
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• 65[00:29:37] <dudz> all the time you spend trying to debug wifi and dealign with downtime, you could have ran your cable and studied the wiring standards and crimped a wall plate and a custom length piece to reach the wall -> device
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• 68[00:31:48] <Hiryu> In Debian stretch, there's the nagios-plugins-contrib package, which includes check_raid. This package isn't in testing, and it doesn't seem like any Debian testing packages contain check_raid... Does anyone know if there's a package with the check_raid nagios/icinga plugin for Debian testing?
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• 81[00:39:31] <Hiryu> Didn't think so... seems the package was auto removed. Maybe I can try a mailing list :D
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• 85[00:42:05] <n4dir> Hiryu: the package seems to be in sid.
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• 88[00:42:45] <Hiryu> hmm
• 89[00:42:54] <n4dir> now if i would only remember the right term for the bot to tell about a mixed testing unstable system.
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• 91[00:43:30] <Hiryu> n4dir: so this is probably a temporary issue, yeah?
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• 96[00:43:57] <Hiryu> so it's the icinga2 package... hilarious
• 97[00:44:00] <n4dir> I would assume so, but am not too good with those details. Don't rely on me
• 98[00:44:14] <Hiryu> np! I appreciate the help. I should have checked sid :p
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• 100[00:44:52] <Hiryu> maybe I can use pinning to only install packages from sid when there's no alternative
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• 106[00:45:44] <n4dir> Hiryu: the bot knows how, but like said. There is also an old how-to at forums.debian.net which will tell you just the same. A setting in /etc/apt/preferences or /etc/apt/conf will make the magic happen
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• 108[00:45:45] <Hiryu> or I could just pin the particular packages I need while setting all of sid to a low priorty
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• 110[00:45:56] <Hiryu> yeah
• 111[00:46:24] <Hiryu> looks like google found me the forum link
• 112[00:46:31] <n4dir> it's pretty straight forward, and i never heard anyone complaining that method failed on him. If you can't find the how-to, i will look
• 113[00:46:34] <n4dir> ah, cool.
• 114[00:46:43] <n4dir> by richh, iirc
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• 116[00:47:00] <Hiryu> so far looks like this approach is much easier than the one I was going to take
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• 121[00:49:47] <Some1NamedNate> To me it seems risky to manually upgrade from jessie to stretch
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• 123[00:50:09] <n4dir> i think that is the way the bot puts it:
• 124[00:50:12] <n4dir> !tum
• 125[00:50:12] <dpkg> «echo 'APT::Default-Release "testing";' >> /etc/apt/apt.conf», edit sources.list, copy your non-security testing lines and change one set to unstable, then apt-get update. Use apt-get -t unstable install foo; to install foo from unstable rather than testing as usual. WARNING to SYNAPTIC users: Synaptic ignores Default-Release: set Preferences->Distribution.
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• 169[01:18:56] <gfccie> Hey guys. I installed Debian on a 64Gb Flash drive but i can't boot it. I already checked my BIOS and tried lots of things. Any idea? Thanks in advance
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• 173[01:19:53] <annadane> any error messages?
• 174[01:20:05] <annadane> and how'd you put it on the drive?
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• 178[01:20:54] <gfccie> I installed thru a DVD, pointed the install to use all the usb
• 179[01:21:00] <gfccie> no errors,it just hangs
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• 182[01:21:40] <annadane> okay, how did you burn the iso?
• 183[01:22:04] <gfccie> using brasero
• 184[01:22:10] <gfccie> on linux mint
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• 191[01:25:43] <dvs> gfccie, replaced-url
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• 195[01:26:53] <gfccie> dvs, thank you
• 196[01:26:54] <gfccie> i will try
• 197[01:26:55] <Tom-_> i think he's past installation, he's not making an install USB stick
• 198[01:27:06] <gfccie> cheers
• 199[01:27:09] <Tom-_> i don't know why your USB stick isn't booting. does it have a boot sector?
• 200[01:27:25] <gfccie> yes
• 201[01:27:32] <gfccie> and the install went just fine
• 202[01:27:37] <Tom-_> does it have a bootable flag set?
• 203[01:27:47] <gfccie> yes
• 204[01:27:47] <Tom-_> did you install GRUB? :)
• 205[01:27:58] <dvs> oh, gfccie is installing to a USB?
• 206[01:27:59] <gfccie> yep
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• 234[01:41:04] <Barones> Hi, I'm trying to install redshift gnome extension but getting a inflating error to load the plugin
• 235[01:41:30] <Barones> anyone have experienced that? I dont know what "inflating" could mean
• 236[01:42:34] <themill> ,i gnome-shell-extension-redshift
• 237[01:42:35] <judd> Package gnome-shell-extension-redshift (gnome, extra) in stretch/amd64: redshift extension for GNOME Shell. Version: 3.20.1-2; Size: 16.9k; Installed: 76k; Homepage: replaced-url
• 238[01:42:43] *** Quits: Haudegen (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 239[01:42:54] <themill> it's already packaged, that sounds easier
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• 257[01:51:45] <Barones> location services was off, but still getting a "Unknown location provider 'geoglue'." error
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• 279[02:00:04] <nbags> Barones: can u pass it the lat/long on the command line somehow? thats what i had to do for redshift-gtk
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• 285[02:02:18] <king_crimson> Barones, get the config file template here: replaced-url
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• 289[02:02:51] <king_crimson> Paste the config you got from the site in the newly created file and edit latitude and longitude, also set screen = 0
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• 297[02:04:00] <king_crimson> save and restart redshift
• 298[02:04:05] <Barones> that worked thanks nbags
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• 301[02:04:46] <Barones> thanks for the help guys
• 302[02:04:51] <awal1> i use sct
• 303[02:04:55] <Barones> I had to place manually the lat and long
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• 309[02:07:28] <awal1> Barones, I missed your first question/context. thats about screen color temperature?
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• 313[02:09:11] <Barones> awal1, the extension was not working
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• 406[03:11:06] <CliffDvr> is there a setting to bind a name "eth0" to a mac? hwaddress ether seems to only change the mac.
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• 414[03:15:06] <PhotoJim> CliffDvr: udev is the secret... there's a file you can create/edit that will bind eth0 to it. do some googling and you'll find it
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• 419[03:16:47] <CliffDvr> yeah I've been experimenting. I have to create a new name and only reference that right?
• 420[03:17:25] <CliffDvr> I was trying to force it to swap eth0 and eth1... probably not going to work.
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• 424[03:19:36] <t3st3r> CliffDvr> possibly udev can do that?
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• 426[03:20:14] <CliffDvr> t3ster: I think you'd be better of moding the kernel modules.dep to get the modules to load in a diffrent order.
• 427[03:20:30] <t3st3r> i.e. idea is to try to match device the way you want and assign it name?
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• 429[03:20:42] <CliffDvr> yeah i'll just use a new name.
• 430[03:21:16] <CliffDvr> put a label on the computer "use ethext0" or w/e
• 431[03:21:23] <t3st3r> CliffDvr> well, I assign custom IF names, just not based on MAC.
• 432[03:22:09] <CliffDvr> yeah, but for some reason when I boot with a usb nic installed the on board nic goes from eth0 to eth1 during the reboot.
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• 435[03:23:17] <t3st3r> so in your shoes I would catch that device in udev rule and give it some persistent name, whatever you like.
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• 469[03:45:32] <CliffDvr> yep that'll work.
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• 551[04:29:07] <annadane> hello hiexpo
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• 649[05:47:17] <hiexpo> hey all some how or another i did something and now when i use pip install it defaults to python3.5 and i want pip default to be the 2.7
• 650[05:47:31] <hiexpo> how do i fix this
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• 655[05:49:43] <jimm> hiexpo, (a), look at which pip, and remember to (b) never use pip as root
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• 657[05:50:50] <hiexpo> jimm, uh oh i used pip as root so how do i fix it
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• 659[05:51:39] <jimm> sec, gotta get more comfortable... I'm over the pinano
• 660[05:53:02] <hiexpo> jimm, okay
• 661[05:53:55] <jim> ok, what's which pip say
• 662[05:54:40] <hiexpo> jim, /usr/local/bin/pip
• 663[05:54:56] <jim> you built a python?
• 664[05:55:20] <jim> what's which python say?
• 665[05:55:51] <hiexpo> jim, /usr/bin/python
• 666[05:56:47] <hiexpo> jim, i have 2.7 and 3.5 installed
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• 671[05:57:36] <jim> ok, what's /usr/local/bin/python --version 2>&1 | nc termbin.com 9999
• 672[05:57:42] <jim> what;s that say?
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• 680[05:59:11] <hiexpo> jim, replaced-url
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• 683[06:00:15] <jim> hmmm so you have /usr/local/bin/pip but not /usr/local/bin/python
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• 685[06:00:33] <jim> what did you build?
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• 687[06:02:30] <jim> alternatively... do you know why you have pip but not python in /usr/local/bin?
• 688[06:02:38] <hiexpo> jim, not sure but i am looking and all my pip versions are in /usr/local/bin
• 689[06:03:48] <hiexpo> dont know jim installed through package manager im sure
• 690[06:03:52] <jim> do you know how you got those? debian packaging is not permitted to touch /usr/local\
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• 693[06:05:04] <hiexpo> jim, should i uninstall pip and reinstall them
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• 696[06:05:54] <jim> how would you uninstall them? (also, what version of debian are you running?)
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• 698[06:06:35] <jim> , v python
• 699[06:06:36] <judd> Package: python on amd64 -- wheezy: 2.7.3-4+deb7u1; jessie: 2.7.9-1; stretch: 2.7.13-2; buster: 2.7.14-4; sid: 2.7.14-4
• 700[06:06:52] <jim> , v python3
• 701[06:06:53] <judd> Package: python3 on amd64 -- wheezy: 3.2.3-6; jessie: 3.4.2-2; stretch: 3.5.3-1; buster: 3.6.4-1; sid: 3.6.4-1
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• 712[06:10:14] <hiexpo> jim, 2.7.13 and 3.5.3
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• 724[06:12:52] <jim> either debian -radically- changed their rules, or, could it be you're installing packages from weird or unknown sources?
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• 726[06:12:58] <hiexpo> jim, okay i looked in /usr/bin/ and there is a pip2 and pip3 there also but in /usr/local/bin there is pip pip2 pip2.7 pip3 pip3.5 pipenv
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• 728[06:14:08] <jim> you got a lotta pips :)'
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• 730[06:15:30] <jim> as far as I know, the ones in /usr/local are a mystery, I can't tell where they came from
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• 732[06:16:02] <hiexpo> jim could they be a virtualenv
• 733[06:16:40] <jim> I don't think so, but maybe it's possible
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• 735[06:16:59] <jim> it would be weird :)
• 736[06:17:42] <jim> and I (personally) am no closer to answering your original questions of how did that happen and how to fix it
• 737[06:18:00] <hiexpo> jim what would happen if i remove the ones from local
• 738[06:18:37] <jim> that could fix things, but I don't know what all you have set up
• 739[06:19:39] <jim> removing those files without knowing how they got to be there could screw up something we don't know about that you may have set up
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• 745[06:24:29] <hiexpo> jim so when i do a pip install it should not be done as root
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• 747[06:25:24] <annadane> unless you know you need root, in general, don't use it
• 748[06:25:32] <annadane> and no, pip install should not be done as root
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• 759[06:33:41] <jim> you would put a virtual env somewhere that's writable by your user (so somewhere in your home dir); when you make that virtual env, it installs apecial copies of pip which install any modules into that virtual env, so you can run that pip as the user that owns the dir the virtual env is in
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• 761[06:34:33] <jim> for debian, the reason why you shouldn't run pip as root, is it can interfere with debian packaging
• 762[06:35:49] <jim> more generally, it can interfere with the system-wide version of python (in the case of debian, installed from a debian package
• 763[06:35:56] <jim> )
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• 766[06:36:52] <patterson> A clean un-install
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• 770[06:37:14] <patterson> Conceptually, whats the Debian way
• 771[06:37:36] <patterson> linux in general
• 772[06:37:41] <jim> you'd uninstall the package
• 773[06:38:16] <patterson> with the package manager used to install it or any one I have around
• 774[06:38:27] <patterson> Because i forgot
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• 776[06:38:49] <jim> well ok.
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• 778[06:39:00] <jim> the -safest- is:
• 779[06:39:11] <patterson> I'm kidding
• 780[06:39:24] <jim> - you only have debian sources in your sources.list
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• 785[06:40:12] <jim> - then, you only install (or remove) debian packages
• 786[06:41:26] <patterson> Are the scenarios where installing a package as root would bless the app?
• 787[06:41:34] <jim> this "safest way" is for mission-critical operating system installs, such as what you'd do on servers
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• 789[06:41:45] <patterson> there
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• 791[06:42:06] <patterson> inherit root privledges
• 792[06:42:08] <jim> servers should also have debian stable installed
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• 794[06:42:25] <patterson> What ever. Gold Bless X.25
• 795[06:42:40] <jim> you can't install a debian package as nonroot
• 796[06:42:51] <patterson> That will come in handy
• 797[06:43:41] <jim> (remember, I said this is for mission-critical stuff, like servers)
• 798[06:44:03] <patterson> Servers can be complete goof-offs
• 799[06:44:16] <patterson> Mot at all serious ipso facto
• 800[06:44:42] <patterson> ISerious is not a feature description
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• 802[06:44:53] <jim> if you're not doing one of those, then the range of what you can do (and what you might (have to) learn) is much wider
• 803[06:45:14] <patterson> It's a box with an os
• 804[06:45:44] <jim> if it's your playtoy, do whatever :)
• 805[06:45:58] <patterson> Kubernetes and yoga pants aside
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• 807[06:47:28] <jim> if it's your server, you might want to be more conservative, depending on the purpose of the server
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• 809[06:48:54] <jim> if it's someone else's server, you might want to be extremely conservative, and adopt the rules I laid down earlier; additionally, you should build a backup plan if there;s not one already
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• 819[06:58:22] <jim> if it's someone else's server, you might want to be extremely conservative, and adopt the rules I laid down earlier; additionally, you should build a backup plan if there;s not one already
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• 844[07:26:45] <likcoras> Is there a way to silence failed ssh login attempts? I'm 90% sure my setup is safe enough (ssh keys, specific allowed users, etc.) and it just makes my logs incredibly unuseful.
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• 849[07:27:56] <likcoras> I'd rather not have to change the port sshd is running on, though, for interoperability reasons.
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• 867[07:45:25] <patterson> Don't read it
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• 887[08:06:36] <adan> quit
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• 927[08:36:59] <alkisg> Googling for "in debian" => 420.000 results, while "on debian" => 463.000 results. Are both correct, or we use in/on based on context?
• 928[08:37:32] <nkuttler> wat
• 929[08:37:44] <alkisg> It's a grammatical question, not a software one :D
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• 931[08:37:53] <alkisg> *grammar
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• 942[08:43:41] <petererer> alkisg, totally depends on context.
• 943[08:44:06] <alkisg> petererer: ah, thank you, I'm writing a git commit message, and I don't know if the correct thing to say is "this xxx thing happens in debian" or "on debian"...
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• 945[08:44:44] <petererer> Something is packaged in Debian. Something can run on Debian
• 946[08:45:05] <alkisg> Got it, thanks a lot
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• 957[08:55:41] <ejr> hi. i am using debian 9. This morning, I could not create/change/delete anything on my filesystem, not even with root. I rebooted, some background check of the filesystem was automatically performed and now it works again. I do however wonder how this could happen and where/how I can retrace what exactly the problem was (e.g. which logfile)?
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• 974[09:00:48] <t3st3r> ejr> first of all, look at dmesg.
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• 977[09:02:46] <t3st3r> If things go really bad for filesystems or block devices, kernel tends to complain and its ring buffer does not depends on filesystem being writable :)
• 978[09:04:03] <t3st3r> two obvious reasons could be either block device going readonly (typical for SSD/other flash based storages) or damaged filesystem (most filesystems remount readonly)
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• 981[09:05:39] <ejr> t3st3r: it is indeed an ssd. i will check dmesg, thx
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• 1002[09:18:46] <t3st3r> <ejr> t3st3r: it is indeed an ssd. i will check dmesg, thx <- also could be handy to have smartmontools around, but if it got readonly... well...
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• 1019[09:34:08] <jaromaz> Testing
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• 1030[09:49:23] <ov3rmind> dig
• 1031[09:49:27] <ov3rmind> ops
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• 1036[09:53:47] <folatt> systemd --test gives me: Trying to run as user instance, but $XDG_RUNTIME_DIR is not set.
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• 1039[09:54:51] <folatt> How do I get XDG_RUNTIME_DIR to set?
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• 1041[09:56:01] <ksk> folatt: are you trying to run as a user?
• 1042[09:56:07] <ksk> like, is that what you want
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• 1044[09:56:33] <ksk> or do you just want to use systemd? also, why do you even call "systemd"? Id think nobody should do that (without a reason)
• 1045[09:57:05] <ksk> folatt: systemctl is the command to control services via systemd
• 1046[09:57:05] <folatt> What I want is to enable to a user daemon.
• 1047[09:57:20] <folatt> What I want is to enable a user daemon.
• 1048[09:57:36] <ksk> what does that mean? you want a deamon running a non-root?
• 1049[09:57:43] <ksk> or do you want a user to control a deamon?
• 1050[09:57:44] <folatt> systemctl --user enable whatever.service is giving me a dbus error.
• 1051[09:57:47] <folatt> Yes
• 1052[10:00:33] <folatt> I want to run a daemon as non-root.
• 1053[10:01:32] <ksk> mhhm, there is an issue at systemd github with that error.
• 1054[10:01:50] <folatt> Failed to get D-Bus connection: Connection refused
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• 1056[10:01:56] <folatt> That's the error I'm getting.
• 1057[10:02:34] <folatt> I'm getting this with a server with about the same things installed as another one that doesn't have this problem..
• 1058[10:02:37] <ksk> thats different from what you posted earlier.
• 1059[10:03:02] <folatt> systemctl --user list-units gives me: Failed to get D-Bus connection: Connection refused
• 1060[10:03:12] <ksk> replaced-url
• 1061[10:03:13] <judd> Bug replaced-url
• 1062[10:03:18] <folatt> systemd --test gives me: Trying to run as user instance, but $XDG_RUNTIME_DIR is not set.
• 1063[10:03:50] <ksk> do you have "libpam-systemd" installed on both?
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• 1065[10:04:15] <folatt> yes
• 1066[10:04:37] <folatt> I reinstalled libpam-systemd as well.
• 1067[10:05:06] <folatt> I think something went wrong while upgrading packages.
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• 1069[10:06:18] <folatt> Because that's what happened on the good one. It had the same problem after upgrading packages. And libpam-systemd was missing.
• 1070[10:06:31] <folatt> When I installed it it worked.
• 1071[10:06:48] <folatt> I guess with this one, something extra is missing.
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• 1151[11:11:26] <genital_herpes> herpes
• 1152[11:13:06] <genital_herpes> i have three testicles
• 1153[11:14:41] <alkisg> File a bug report in debian for that
• 1154[11:16:25] <mateothegreat> I think it's #ubuntu for that kind of issue ^_^
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• 1176[11:35:48] <genital_herpes> NIGGER ALERT!
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• 1180[11:37:03] <mateothegreat> Damn trump fanboi's
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• 1202[11:54:45] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
• 1203[11:54:59] <crimson_king> yo
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• 1258[12:33:52] <sine0> Hi folks, rightly or wrongly I have read that If i go to install mysql from apt it will install mariadb instead, is this true ?
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• 1263[12:36:02] <nkuttler> sine0: mariadb is mysql, but yes
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• 1268[12:37:51] <sine0> so as a basic user going to install wordpress on my server would i notice any difference ?
• 1269[12:38:01] <sine0> does it run on the same port and connect command line the same way /
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• 1274[12:38:37] <nkuttler> sine0: mariadb is mysql. they just had to change the name due to legal reasons
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• 1276[12:38:42] <sine0> ok
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• 1279[12:39:38] <nkuttler> as for the cli, the mysql commands still work, they just point to mariadb
• 1280[12:40:08] <nkuttler> so you should probably get into the habit of using mariadb
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• 1312[12:59:50] <sine0> how can i list all files in all recursive folders beneath me
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• 1315[13:00:43] <petemc> ls -R
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• 1317[13:01:16] <petemc> if you just want files not directories, find . -type f
• 1318[13:01:25] <sine0> thanks... I did lowercase r
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• 1322[13:02:39] <sine0> find . -type f is awesome
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• 1324[13:04:11] <petemc> find is a great tool
• 1325[13:04:40] <sine0> can I do like partial file names: find . 'something'
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• 1327[13:05:13] <dvs> find . -path 'something' ?
• 1328[13:05:18] <petemc> find . -iname *someting*
• 1329[13:05:18] <klys> find . | grep 'something'
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• 1332[13:05:39] <mateothegreat> find . -name '*something*'
• 1333[13:05:47] <dvs> ha!
• 1334[13:05:51] <dvs> so great
• 1335[13:05:58] <sine0> mateothegreat: thats good
• 1336[13:06:13] <sine0> petemc: it worked without the '' like you said
• 1337[13:06:29] <petemc> yeah, it used to need specia characters like * escaped, not any more
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• 1341[13:07:37] <mateothegreat> -mindepth and -maxdepth will come in handy too
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• 1386[13:30:11] <folatt> replaced-url
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• 1389[13:33:23] <klys> folatt, gdm3 ?
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• 1403[13:42:16] <folatt> I'll check if that's a package
• 1404[13:42:54] <folatt> It's not installed on my server that does work.
• 1405[13:43:03] <folatt> So it can't be that.
• 1406[13:43:10] <klys> so, you're just loggin in at the tty, I gather?
• 1407[13:44:51] <folatt> yes
• 1408[13:45:00] <folatt> They're both servers.
• 1409[13:45:04] <klys> and would you like to keep it that way?
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• 1411[13:45:55] <folatt> Yes, all I want is to be able to enable a daemon with a non-root user.
• 1412[13:46:15] <folatt> And that dbus error is stopping me from doing that.
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• 1424[13:49:42] <klys> well I saw some things here, replaced-url
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• 1432[13:51:02] <klys> folatt, you could share some relevant info about your pam configs
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• 1437[13:52:11] <klys> al_la:
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• 1448[14:01:54] <folatt> klys, thanks, not sure yet what's relevant.
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• 1475[14:18:17] <aokfire> Hi. Looking to see if anyone has info on debian.mirror.iweb.ca/debian mirror being suddenly empty?
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• 1478[14:20:14] <abrotman> Did you check the mirror status?
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• 1484[14:22:36] <abrotman> replaced-url
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• 1489[14:24:23] <aokfire> thx
• 1490[14:24:27] <aokfire> changed mirrors for now.
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• 1511[14:35:08] <dacav> Hi debian developers. I'm trying to learn some packaging today, and I'm experimenting with a personal project
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• 1514[14:35:25] <dacav> The pristine of my project can be downloaded from github
• 1515[14:35:46] <dacav> I've got a problem in that the name of the pristine doesn't follow the debian policy
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• 1517[14:35:52] <skupra> Najbolji sajt na ovim prostorima: replaced-url
• 1518[14:36:29] <dacav> It is called PFT-1.2.1, while in debian it should be libpft-perl-1.2.1
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• 1524[14:37:24] <dacav> What should I do in this case? Do I always need to do a manual rename?
• 1525[14:38:10] <dacav> I've got previous experience with RPMs, where you declare with Source the name of the pristine package… is there something similar for Debian?
• 1526[14:38:27] <klys> dacav, debian/control
• 1527[14:39:58] <dacav> klys: you mean I can set "Source: PFT-1.2.1" and get away with it? :)
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• 1530[14:41:29] <klys> not really, your source is stored in debian/pool/libp/libpft or so, not that I know much. you may likely find more devs on oftc.
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• 1532[14:42:13] <dacav> Ah, on oftc there's a debian chan?
• 1533[14:42:15] <dacav> sweet
• 1534[14:42:19] <dacav> I'll ask there too :)
• 1535[14:42:23] <klys> #debian-next is the one I have
• 1536[14:42:35] <dacav> Thanks klys
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• 1540[14:45:16] <VV> hi guys
• 1541[14:45:28] <klys> hello.
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• 1543[14:45:32] <dacav> hi
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• 1546[14:46:15] <Plan_IX> so is anyone here who might be able to answer a few quick questions ?
• 1547[14:46:32] <klys> see /topic
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• 1549[14:47:13] <dacav> Plan_IX: try asking, usually people are very helpful on IRC :)
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• 1556[14:51:14] * abrotman wonders if there will be a question about plan9 coming ...
• 1557[14:51:57] <RoyK> plan nine from outer space…
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• 1594[15:11:44] <dacav> klys: so, as it turns out I am supposed to rename the package anyway
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• 1596[15:11:57] <dacav> \_o_/
• 1597[15:11:58] <dacav> :)
• 1598[15:12:17] <dacav> (I thought to share back the info I got on the other irc)
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• 1606[15:16:30] <likcoras> In lighttpd, How would I change the url of a request before sending it through a proxy? ie. when a request GET /list/something, the proxy sees the request come in for GET /something.
• 1607[15:16:53] <likcoras> It's pretty straightforward in nginx, but I can't seem to figure it out with lighttpd.
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• 1611[15:17:44] <likcoras> A rewrite rule right before the proxy rewrites the url and then serves the request after the rewrite,and does not send it through the proxy.
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• 1677[15:50:14] <RoyK> likcoras: do people still use lighttpd? ;)
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• 1679[15:52:16] <likcoras> I apparently do.
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• 1684[15:54:46] <RoyK> I don't know lighty that well - haven't ued it for years - better stick to something like nginx - it's light and fast and widely used
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• 1694[15:58:20] <stack> hello, is network/interfaces still the suggested way to configure new system interfaces like bridges? or should I use NetworkManager if installed ?
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• 1697[15:59:23] <RoyK> stack: guess that depends on if you're using network manager or not
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• 1700[15:59:51] <stack> or maybe systemd/network ?
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• 1702[15:59:59] <RoyK> last I checked, with stable, /etc/network/interfaces is still default
• 1703[16:00:06] <stack> ok
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• 1708[16:01:01] <RoyK> I guess Buster will come with nwan, though
• 1709[16:01:10] <RoyK> stack: which distro/version is this?
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• 1712[16:02:14] <stack> RoyK: stretch, but I should configure a similar thing on buster
• 1713[16:02:33] <RoyK> whatever works
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• 1718[16:05:22] <RoyK> stack: I tend to stick to stable releases for most stuff - too tired of fixing broken machines, I guess
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• 1834[17:02:59] <petn-randall> Hi Sveta, it's better to call !ops in the channel (and not in the ops channel), so it won't get confused with you spamming messages.
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• 1915[17:42:01] <muricantrump> wtf
• 1916[17:42:07] <muricantrump> why I cant join debian testing
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• 1918[17:42:28] <muricantrump> btw has anyone moved from arch to debian? I am planning to do that transition
• 1919[17:43:57] <annadane> muricantrump, if you mean #debian-next, it's on irc.oftc.net
• 1920[17:44:24] <muricantrump> ok
• 1921[17:44:36] <muricantrump> nyways, is it worth switching from arch to debian testing
• 1922[17:44:40] <muricantrump> for the sake of stability?
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• 1940[17:54:10] <n4dir> as far it's me: a system i know well is always more stable than a one i don't know well.
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• 1944[17:58:16] <fooman2011> Hello. I'm looking for the package to install "runuser". Could you please tell me this package name ?
• 1945[17:58:17] <jelly> muricantrump, read: /msg dpkg sid faq
• 1946[17:58:27] <jelly> most of it applies to testing as well.
• 1947[17:59:00] <fooman2011> runuser: command not found
• 1948[17:59:09] <jelly> fooman2011, /msg judd file bin/runuser
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• 1953[18:00:37] <fooman2011> util-linux: sbin/runuser => I have already installed util-linux
• 1954[18:00:52] <fooman2011> but i don't have runuser in /sbin
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• 1956[18:01:14] <jelly> then you're missing files, reinstall the package
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• 1958[18:01:30] <jelly> fooman2011, which debian release is this?
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• 1960[18:01:39] <fooman2011> how to now that ? uname -a ?
• 1961[18:01:50] <jelly> !debian suite
• 1962[18:01:50] <dpkg> cat /etc/debian_version (or lsb_release -sc). Or check /etc/apt/sources.list. If unsure about the distribution, $ cat /etc/{*version*,*release*,*issue*} should grab almost all distributions.
• 1963[18:01:52] <fooman2011> Debian 3.2.93-1 x86_64
• 1964[18:02:10] <fooman2011> 7.11
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• 1966[18:02:18] <jelly> Debian 7, wheezy
• 1967[18:02:28] <fooman2011> yes
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• 1969[18:02:45] <jelly> perhaps runuser did not exist then
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• 1973[18:03:02] <jelly> judd, file bin/runuser --release wheezy
• 1974[18:03:05] <judd> No packages in wheezy/amd64 were found with that file.
• 1975[18:03:10] <jelly> right. Too old.
• 1976[18:03:27] <fooman2011> ok.... thanks. Do you know another way to run a command using a homeless user ?
• 1977[18:03:41] <jelly> su?
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• 1979[18:04:00] <fooman2011> when I'm trying to make su - USER i have an error
• 1980[18:04:16] <jelly> that does not run a command, that opens their login shell
• 1981[18:04:16] <fooman2011> No directory, logging in with HOME=/
• 1982[18:04:28] <fooman2011> oh ok
• 1983[18:04:37] <jelly> but does it open?
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• 1985[18:05:07] <fooman2011> nope
• 1986[18:05:12] <fooman2011> i'm still root
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• 1988[18:05:44] <jelly> fooman2011, what does "getent passwd usernamehere" say
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• 1991[18:06:21] <fooman2011> motion:x:117:122::/home/motion:/bin/false
• 1992[18:07:00] <alkisg> And is that directory there? ls -ld /home/motion
• 1993[18:07:17] <jelly> fooman2011, that login shell exits immediately.
• 1994[18:07:25] <fooman2011> ls: cannot access /home/motion: No such file or directory
• 1995[18:07:42] <alkisg> That's why the user cannot login then, he has no home directory :)
• 1996[18:07:52] <jelly> alkisg, that's not a problem
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• 1999[18:08:23] <alkisg> Ah sorry guys I started reading too late, I didn't see the "homeless user" sentence at all
• 2000[18:08:23] <jelly> fooman2011, it's expected that just "su - motion" won't do anything visible... it starts /bin/false and that's it
• 2001[18:08:47] <jelly> if you want to run a command, tell su to run a command.
• 2002[18:08:50] <fooman2011> in fact my problem is that the "motion" application can run commands on different events. I'm tyring to run a specific command but I don't know why but the command is not called.
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• 2005[18:09:22] <fooman2011> su - USER -c "echo foo"
• 2006[18:09:23] <fooman2011> ?
• 2007[18:09:28] <mateothegreat> fooman2011: which command and event?
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• 2010[18:10:45] <fooman2011> mateothegreat: on_event_start a python script
• 2011[18:10:52] <mateothegreat> you're going to want to wrap that all into a wrapper script
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• 2014[18:11:20] <mateothegreat> make your command 'asdf' .. set log level to 9 and restart.. see if you get your outputs
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• 2016[18:11:35] <mateothegreat> [1:ml1] [DBG] [EVT] exec_command: Executing external command 'value'
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• 2018[18:11:35] <mateothegreat> &: 1: &: value: not found
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• 2020[18:11:59] <mateothegreat> motion does some nastiness with fork'ing
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• 2025[18:16:35] <fooman2011> mateothegreatok problem found. I had to set full path of python, instead of "python" only
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• 2030[18:21:22] <mateothegreat> ha cool
• 2031[18:21:33] <mateothegreat> what are you recording over there
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• 2067[18:37:32] <ubsafder> i am using aide to detect changes in my system i did changes to the bin folder nothing got detected is that expected beheavior ?
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• 2071[18:39:47] <ubsafder> i could even install softwares and got no changes detected AIDE found NO differences ???
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• 2076[18:43:16] <krukudilo> do you have bin folder in /etc/aide/aide.conf?
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• 2088[18:46:27] <krukudilo> you should put folders you want to inspect in /etc/aide/aide.conf
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• 2119[19:10:07] <theguyfromthebus> I have Virtualbox on one of my desktop. I'm running VM on Debian. I gave 20GB virtual disk for the guest. However this is what I can see:
• 2120[19:10:08] *** Quits: dvs (~Heubert@replaced-ip) (Quit: Outta here!)
• 2121[19:10:43] <theguyfromthebus> "/dev/sda1 7158264 6317504 457428 94% /"
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• 2126[19:11:56] <theguyfromthebus> The virtual Disk is fixed size
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• 2130[19:13:08] <holgersson> theguyfromthebus: hi, please paste the whole output of df somewhere. I guess the rest was eaten by swap :-)
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• 2140[19:15:57] <theguyfromthebus> holgersson: Hello. replaced-url
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• 2146[19:17:11] <holgersson> theguyfromthebus: err, mea culpa, swap doesn't appear in 'df'. take another look with "blkid /dev/sda*" please :)
• 2147[19:17:27] <theguyfromthebus> ok :)
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• 2153[19:19:05] <theguyfromthebus> holgersson: replaced-url
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• 2160[19:22:15] <holgersson> theguyfromthebus: oh god, too less sleep, wrong command again: "fdisk -l /dev/sda" shows you the _sizes_
• 2161[19:22:15] <holgersson> theguyfromthebus: "free" shows you the memory (RAM) and swap which your VM see, so that would be another indicator for the size
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• 2166[19:23:41] <theguyfromthebus> holgersson: replaced-url
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• 2171[19:24:57] <theguyfromthebus> The 7G + 5G would be right. Because the first time when I made the VD I gave 12GB. I resized it to 20GB and I don't know why it still shows only 12G
• 2172[19:25:00] <holgersson> theguyfromthebus: There you go: 7G Linux + 5G Swap + some rounding errors (1000 vs 1024 etc) = 14 GB
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• 2178[19:26:04] <holgersson> theguyfromthebus: Sorry, I have to pass. Maybe a bug or just a mistake while resizing? :-/
• 2179[19:26:43] <theguyfromthebus> The VD size shows up as 20GB. I'm going to try it one more time
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• 2182[19:28:06] <holgersson> theguyfromthebus: did you resize the partitions inside, too?
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• 2184[19:28:43] <sine0> hey folks when you edit exim4, do you exim the split conf files and then recompile ?
• 2185[19:28:54] <sine0> where does the finail compiled file live
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• 2188[19:29:10] <holgersson> theguyfromthebus: I read too fast about your last paste: "Disk /dev/sda: 20 GiB, 21474836480 bytes, 41943040 sectors" so the disk size is fine, but you need to increase the partition sizes aswell.
• 2189[19:29:54] <theguyfromthebus> ohh, ok. Thank you :)
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• 2197[19:33:26] <dtux> anyone got a good recommendation of a gui i can use to monitor cpu temp?
• 2198[19:33:42] <dtux> (im using gnome, fwiw)
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• 2205[19:36:59] <Tom01> psensor
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• 2208[19:38:43] <dtux> Tom01: excellent, thank you
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• 2212[19:41:43] <sine0> mailbox /var/mail/sine has wrong uid (0 != 1000)
• 2213[19:41:50] <sine0> I touched the file in /var/mail/sine
• 2214[19:42:07] <sine0> do I have to chmod/chown
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• 2223[19:48:24] <sine0> sorted
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• 2235[19:56:21] <jhutchins> theguyfromthebus: See resize2fs
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• 2259[20:05:11] <theguyfromthebus> jhutchins: Thank you.
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• 2302[20:25:45] <fooman2011> Hello. I have mounted an NTFS disk. All users can create file at "/" but only root can write into subdirectories. Rights are: drwxr-sr-x 2 nobody users 4096 Mar 24 20:00 mydirectory
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• 2304[20:26:06] <fooman2011> How to write into mydirectory using all users ?
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• 2328[20:34:41] <Megaf> Folks, I have to major issues with current Debian Stretch that were not present in Debian Jessie.
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• 2331[20:35:28] <Megaf> one, nouveau is unusable. If I open anything OpenGL it will just hang the whole system., keyboard input will not work, X will freeze, only the cursor will move around
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• 2333[20:35:46] <rant> fooman2011: you mounted with the gid option?
• 2334[20:36:04] <Megaf> two, if any program use "too much" "buffer/cache" (as reported in free -m) the system will just hang, become unresponsive.
• 2335[20:36:06] <rant> on ntfs all perms should be the same
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• 2340[20:38:09] <rant> Megaf: is your nvidia sharing system ram?
• 2341[20:38:25] <rant> or is this optimus?
• 2342[20:38:38] <Megaf> rant: only a single GPU
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• 2344[20:38:47] <Megaf> not 100% sure if it uses system ram
• 2345[20:38:58] <Megaf> it's always 256 MB for GPU, not configurable
• 2346[20:39:00] <jhutchins> !ntfs
• 2347[20:39:00] <dpkg> Windows NT File System (NTFS) has drivers available in Debian: the read-only Linux kernel driver and a <FUSE> driver providing write support. For information about the former, ask me about <ntfsro>. For information about read/write access, ask me about <ntfsrw>. See also <ntfsclone>, <label>. replaced-url
• 2348[20:39:09] *** Joins: Cthu (Cthu@replaced-ip)
• 2349[20:39:37] <Megaf> Problem two is also very annoying, because even with plenty of RAM to spare, and SWAP untouched, system just hangs and trash IO
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• 2351[20:39:45] <rant> Megaf: i was just thinkin you could have bad ram or psu
• 2352[20:40:08] <Megaf> It's a laptop, doesn't happen with much older kernels, as in Jessie.
• 2353[20:40:50] <Megaf> There's lots of other major hardware issues in Stretch, but these two are the two that concirn me the most. Because they just make Debian unusable.
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• 2355[20:40:55] <rant> noveau issues are common enough but the otjer issue suggests the two are related
• 2356[20:41:34] <rant> and if you also have other issues its further poining toward hw
• 2357[20:42:02] <Megaf> I'd use NVIDIA proprietary driver, but my system is EFI, it has the hability to emulate legacy BIOS, tho Debian installer/boot will not offer such option,
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• 2359[20:42:11] <Megaf> and NVIDIA driver does not work on EFI
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• 2361[20:42:18] <Megaf> the version for my GPU at least
• 2362[20:42:32] *** Quits: Freddrickk (~fred@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
• 2363[20:42:53] <rant> you know if you hve more than one stick of ram?
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• 2365[20:43:07] <Megaf> Debian has been my main system for at least 8 years now, most of these years on this machine. Now it's just unusable...
• 2366[20:43:10] <rant> id try it with each one individuay
• 2367[20:43:14] <Megaf> rant: other OSes run just fine
• 2368[20:43:25] <Megaf> basically anything that is not Debian Stretch,
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• 2370[20:43:34] <Megaf> it's a MacBook Pro from 2010 by the way
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• 2372[20:43:56] <Megaf> Windows 10 works, macOS works, Debian Jessie kinda kinda works (at least is usable)
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• 2375[20:45:10] <rant> yes but thats not ruling out hw could be an anomoly and there is no change i can think of thatd explain multiple systems failng
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• 2378[20:45:40] <solomondip> hello everyone!
• 2379[20:45:43] <solomondip> How are you guys today??
• 2380[20:45:56] <Megaf> rant: buggy kernel and gpu driver
• 2381[20:46:09] <solomondip> lol, what happened with that megaf ?:F
• 2382[20:46:14] <Megaf> rant: by the way, problem one I can replicate in other laptops, with Intel GPU
• 2383[20:46:27] <rant> other leading thought is youre doing somethin wrong those systems req many special considerations when runnin linux iirc
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• 2387[20:46:37] <solomondip> uhm... i have an intel gpu laptop as well
• 2388[20:46:42] <Megaf> one, nouveau is unusable. If I open anything OpenGL it will just hang the whole system., keyboard input will not work, X will freeze, only the cursor will move around
• 2389[20:46:42] <solomondip> what problem are you having with it?
• 2390[20:46:43] <Megaf> two, if any program use "too much" "buffer/cache" (as reported in free -m) the system will just hang, become unresponsive.
• 2391[20:46:46] <Megaf> solomondip: ^
• 2392[20:46:58] <solomondip> uhm...
• 2393[20:47:04] <solomondip> that's very odd
• 2394[20:47:09] <solomondip> what is the model of your intel gpu?
• 2395[20:47:18] <Megaf> solomondip: basically after 8 years as Debian as main OS in all my devices, Stretch decided to be unusable
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• 2397[20:47:33] <solomondip> lol...
• 2398[20:47:37] <Megaf> solomondip: unrelated, read one and two again
• 2399[20:47:55] <Megaf> GPU is NVIDIA 320M
• 2400[20:48:03] <Megaf> MCP90 is the chipset I think
• 2401[20:48:10] <solomondip> ooohhh... nvidia... well that's a completely different story
• 2402[20:48:19] <Megaf> Hardware is a MacBook Pro 13" Mid 2010
• 2403[20:48:25] <solomondip> i have a macbook pro 2012
• 2404[20:48:36] <solomondip> runs on a intel hd 4000
• 2405[20:48:40] <solomondip> but it runs just fine
• 2406[20:48:46] <Megaf> problem two happens on multiple systems, AMD and Intel CPUs and AMD, Intel and NVIDIA GPUs
• 2407[20:49:12] <Megaf> problems still present in testing and unstable
• 2408[20:49:18] <solomondip> the "unresponsiveness" you are experiencing... just out of curiosity. does it freeze the entire x for a while and then it comes back ?
• 2409[20:49:42] <Megaf> solomondip: waited for hours, only mouse cursor moves, in case of problem one
• 2410[20:49:52] <Megaf> not even caps lock work
• 2411[20:49:56] <solomondip> yeah.. i was referring to problem two
• 2412[20:49:59] <solomondip> well, i can tell you that
• 2413[20:50:13] <solomondip> on 3 different laptops, with different gpus (all intel)
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• 2415[20:50:19] <solomondip> i noticed this problem every once in a while
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• 2418[20:50:36] <solomondip> the entire system would freeze, i could only move the mouse, but after 30 seconds it comes back to work
• 2419[20:50:38] <Megaf> problem two if I wait long enough I will be able to eventually switch to a console and type at a rate of one letter per 10 minutes and kill the "offending" application
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• 2421[20:51:01] <rant> alt+sysrq+k
• 2422[20:51:02] <solomondip> have you tried looking in the
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• 2424[20:51:08] <solomondip> messages in var log?
• 2425[20:51:11] <Megaf> rant: unrelated, doesnt solve any issue
• 2426[20:51:16] <Megaf> I mean
• 2427[20:51:21] <Megaf> yep, it doesnt
• 2428[20:51:31] <Megaf> just kills, but remember, no keyboard
• 2429[20:51:43] <solomondip> yes same happens to me
• 2430[20:51:47] <solomondip> so... if it can help
• 2431[20:51:53] <solomondip> have you installed tlp and thermald?
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• 2433[20:51:55] <Megaf> solomondip: nothing relevant in logs
• 2434[20:52:13] <rant> i have issues like that on my opilite
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• 2436[20:52:49] <solomondip> tlp and thermald coupled together come in handy in many different situations
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• 2438[20:53:06] <Megaf> anyway, it's a bug
• 2439[20:53:06] <solomondip> even tho they are usually heat-related
• 2440[20:53:16] <Megaf> that needs to be fixed
• 2441[20:53:38] <Megaf> it's a regression, worse than a bug
• 2442[20:53:50] <solomondip> uhm..
• 2443[20:54:09] <solomondip> what de are you using?? gnome?
• 2444[20:54:57] <Megaf> bug happens with ANY DE
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• 2446[20:55:10] <Megaf> both problems
• 2447[20:55:19] <Megaf> tried MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon and GNOME
• 2448[20:55:24] <Megaf> with and without conposing
• 2449[20:55:28] <Megaf> composing
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• 2452[20:55:54] <Megaf> Guys, just point me to where I can talk to a dev or something or someone so these BUGs can get fixed.
• 2453[20:56:20] <Megaf> I tried seeing bugreports for nouveau in Debian earlier, it was sad, 100s if not 1000s of open bugs...
• 2454[20:56:26] <Megaf> Almost cried
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• 2469[21:01:10] <jhutchins> Megaf: What you do is you hire someone to work on the code.
• 2470[21:01:45] <jhutchins> Megaf: That or you supply them with hardare they can test on.
• 2471[21:01:50] <Megaf> Linux will never grow on desktops/business/workstations with that mind
• 2472[21:02:02] <jhutchins> So what?
• 2473[21:02:06] <Megaf> and doesnt solve my issue
• 2474[21:02:10] <jhutchins> Megaf: That's how it works.
• 2475[21:02:16] <Megaf> if you can't help, please be quiet
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• 2477[21:03:02] <Megaf> Neverdmind, ignored ^
• 2478[21:03:47] <mateothegreat> drop the 'tude
• 2479[21:03:49] <teclo-> Linux has grown on desktops/business/workstations
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• 2491[21:10:04] <random_auroras> Is there any listing of recent laptops most compatible with Linux (and Debian)?
• 2492[21:10:33] <jhutchins> random_auroras: Such listings rely on users to report success or failure. When everything works, nobody bothers to file reports.
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• 2494[21:10:45] <jhutchins> random_auroras: So yes, but not reliable ones.
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• 2496[21:11:11] <random_auroras> I see. I'm looking to upgrade from some i3 netbook to something that's at least as good as my decade-old desktop.
• 2497[21:11:13] <jhutchins> random_auroras: Also, manufacturers are notorious for changing hardware without changing the model numbers.
• 2498[21:11:32] <jhutchins> random_auroras: You coult go for a Dell with Linux pre-installed.
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• 2500[21:12:32] <random_auroras> Hm, kinda wary of the firmware and software they'd pre-include on it. Of course, if I reinstall there's strong chances it won't work without nonfree firmware.
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• 2503[21:13:03] <jhutchins> random_auroras: Yeah, but good chances that the firmware is available.
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• 2505[21:13:36] <jhutchins> random_auroras: They do tend to install Ubuntu, which is bit looser about non-free software, but it would be a good place to start.
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• 2507[21:13:56] <jhutchins> random_auroras: There are other companies that do linux laptops, they tend to go for premium prices though.
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• 2510[21:14:11] <sine0> I'm off to get KFC as a treat for managing to dress myself today.
• 2511[21:14:21] <jhutchins> random_auroras: There's a LOT of community support for Thinkpads, but not all of the features always work.
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• 2513[21:14:37] <random_auroras> Yeah, wifi is infamously badly supported without proprietary firmware for newer models.
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• 2519[21:15:50] <jhutchins> random_auroras: That's because the manufacturers have to comply with national regulations. They don't want people to be able to operate the device outside what the laws specify.
• 2520[21:16:13] <random_auroras> It makes for a lot of boring RE busywork.
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• 2522[21:16:37] <random_auroras> Well, boring when you're not feeling like it.
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• 2532[21:19:50] <random_auroras> jhutchins: Am I seriously going to have to deal with nonfree firmware (or making my own) for any recent wifi?
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• 2537[21:21:25] <jhutchins> random_auroras: No, there are several that don't require it, but I only know for sure when we query judd and it says no firmware required.
• 2538[21:21:30] <Sveta> petn-randall: does it work in bot privmsg?
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• 2558[21:33:19] <Megaf> So, no help from here...
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• 2560[21:33:31] <Megaf> I guess I have to go to the wild mail list
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• 2562[21:33:54] <Megaf> now, nouveau mail list, kernel mail list, X mailist or Debian mail list?
• 2563[21:34:25] <hypn0> Megaf: why not use another os :-/
• 2564[21:34:40] <Megaf> Because I do like Debian
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• 2566[21:34:51] <Megaf> Debian has been great for me since Debian Etch
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• 2568[21:35:00] <Megaf> Since Debian 3
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• 2570[21:35:07] <Megaf> just Stretch has been a pain the arse
• 2571[21:35:53] <hypn0> why not try the next version then :-/
• 2572[21:36:31] <Megaf> did already
• 2573[21:36:49] <Megaf> if read the backlog, you will see that I tested Testing, Unstable and Experimental
• 2574[21:37:00] <Megaf> even kernel rt versions
• 2575[21:37:24] <hypn0> so they are all the same then
• 2576[21:37:34] <Megaf> all kernel 4.x
• 2577[21:37:35] <Megaf> yes
• 2578[21:37:50] <Megaf> I currently making a USB of CentOS and Fedora, will give them a try
• 2579[21:38:00] *** Quits: jerdef82 (~jerdef@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2580[21:38:30] <Megaf> but is such a shame seeing a great and magnificent OS such as Debian going downhill, and no one seems to care
• 2581[21:38:49] <hypn0> wont they have the same kernels too :-/
• 2582[21:39:08] <TomTheDragon> what's the actual issue?
• 2583[21:39:10] <ubsafder> ‎<‎Megaf‎>‎ : linux user get wath they pay for
• 2584[21:39:18] <hypn0> 1 in a million isn't downhill I think :-)
• 2585[21:39:40] *** Quits: noobineer (~noobineer@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2586[21:40:29] <Megaf> TomTheDragon: two major issues, one related to my specific laptop and other related to all devices I tested
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• 2588[21:40:54] <Megaf> 19:35 <Megaf> one, nouveau is unusable. If I open anything OpenGL it will just hang the whole system., keyboard input will not work, X will freeze, only the cursor will move around
• 2589[21:40:55] <Megaf> 19:36 <Megaf> two, if any program use "too much" "buffer/cache" (as reported in free -m) the system will just hang, become unresponsive.
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• 2591[21:41:15] <TomTheDragon> Megaf, well, laptops are invariably flaky (and I've not really used nouveau except when I really had to)
• 2592[21:41:17] <Megaf> Both issues affect Debian Stretch+
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• 2594[21:41:21] <hypn0> seems like hardware too to me, maybe you re laptop is dying :-/
• 2595[21:41:46] <Megaf> hypn0: if you read the backlog, you will see that any other OS, and even Debian Jessie work without any issue
• 2596[21:42:00] <Megaf> fuck sake people. Can you even read?
• 2597[21:42:01] <TomTheDragon> I had a similar problem, and it turned out it was HDD was going out (because it was a cheap laptop HDD)
• 2598[21:42:20] <Megaf> And it's a somewhat new SSD by the way
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• 2600[21:42:29] <TomTheDragon> Well, that might be a different case.
• 2601[21:42:33] <hypn0> I can't use scroll wheel, my mouse is dying too :-)
• 2602[21:42:41] <Megaf> page up and down...
• 2603[21:42:53] <Megaf> and I'm pretty sure this channel is logged
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• 2605[21:43:53] <hypn0> I think everything is logged
• 2606[21:44:01] <TomTheDragon> You might want to try the official drivers - as new features are added to nouveau sometimes new bugs creep in too
• 2607[21:44:31] <Megaf> as I wrote already, nvidia proprietary drivers will not work in EFI mode
• 2608[21:44:32] <jhutchins> TomTheDragon: He thinks they can't be used because he's using UEFI. Hasn't done his research, he's just ranting.
• 2609[21:44:42] <Megaf> only in legacy BIOS mode
• 2610[21:44:51] <Megaf> option that Debian Stretch no longer gives to install
• 2611[21:44:59] <Megaf> it only detects and forces EFI mode
• 2612[21:45:07] <Megaf> in case of a system that support both,
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• 2617[21:46:02] <Megaf> TomTheDragon: but yes, proprietary nvidia driver does solve problem one, I mean, it just removes it from existance, nouveau on stretch will still just as broken as before
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• 2619[21:47:19] <TomTheDragon> Also, when there is too much cache/buffers... what's your swap space, swappiness, and is the swap actually mounted?
• 2620[21:47:33] <random_auroras> Megaf: Expert install offers BIOS mode.
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• 2624[21:50:21] <annadane> if you keep being rude in support channels...
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• 2701[22:28:09] <Megaf> annadane: is one line of "rudeness" everything youread?
• 2702[22:28:27] <Megaf> I am being polite for hours to only answer the same questions over and over again
• 2703[22:28:36] <Megaf> even when the answer was one line above
• 2704[22:28:59] <Megaf> all I got was people saing thats what I get for using Linux, try other OS or my hardware is defective
• 2705[22:29:14] <Megaf> [16:47:33] <random_auroras> Megaf: Expert install offers BIOS mode.
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• 2707[22:29:31] <Megaf> please show me one single page of documentation on that
• 2708[22:29:35] <Megaf> a single line
• 2709[22:30:00] <Megaf> because I cant find in the installer any option on how to do that, if I use MBR instead of GPT then GRUB install will just fail
• 2710[22:30:27] <annadane> fair enough, i suppose. it's always counterproductive to tell someone to observe ettiquite when they're annoyed
• 2711[22:30:33] <Megaf> besides. I already have other OSes installed in EFI mode, cant change my system to MBR
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• 2713[22:30:55] <Megaf> [16:47:19] <TomTheDragon> Also, when there is too much cache/buffers... what's your swap space, swappiness, and is the swap actually mounted?
• 2714[22:30:58] *** Quits: OS-33172 (~OS-33172@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
• 2715[22:31:09] <Megaf> swappiness is default, AFAIK 60
• 2716[22:31:16] <Megaf> swap is not used at all
• 2717[22:31:22] <Megaf> or just a couple of MB
• 2718[22:31:37] <Megaf> since there might still be 1GB of more of available RAM
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• 2720[22:31:53] <Megaf> as I said, its a bug
• 2721[22:32:02] <Megaf> confirmed in other devices and DEs
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• 2725[22:33:13] <random_auroras> Megaf: Bad documentation != inexisting feature.
• 2726[22:33:22] <Megaf> [16:34:25] <hypn0> Megaf: why not use another os :-/
• 2727[22:33:32] <Megaf> I might as well do, Im on Fedora 27 right now
• 2728[22:33:35] <Megaf> no bugs so far
• 2729[22:33:57] <Megaf> everything just work, with no proprietary software
• 2730[22:34:02] <Megaf> and testing on my other laptops
• 2731[22:34:34] <Megaf> even fingerprint reader and intel wifi and asus (realtek) wifi work, things that on Debian need installation of proprietary firmwaresd
• 2732[22:34:38] <Megaf> firmwares*
• 2733[22:35:03] <random_auroras> Hm, perhaps it's on unstable?
• 2734[22:35:04] <Megaf> besides, Fedora 27 GNOME LiveUSB is booting faster than Debian on SSD... Go figure..
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• 2738[22:35:41] <Megaf> random_auroras: I try all 3 versions of Debian (stable, testing, unstable) almost weekly, never got it to work
• 2739[22:35:42] <random_auroras> Debian has this thing about conservatism. Sometimes it's nice (it's stable), but sometimes it gets a bit in the way.
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• 2741[22:36:14] <Megaf> random_auroras: and as it for now, Debian is the most unstable and unreliable OS for my HP laptop and MacBook Pro
• 2742[22:36:30] <random_auroras> -_- I probably should have disabled DEs for a faster install attempt on that VM...
• 2743[22:36:49] <Megaf> wierd enough, it works well on my Toshiba Satellitte with AMD CPU and GPU tho
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• 2745[22:37:06] <Megaf> tho still have the system hang problem, problem two
• 2746[22:37:06] <annadane> stable can be weird. what works wonderfully for certain use cases fails spectacularly at others
• 2747[22:37:23] <annadane> well, "spectacularly"
• 2748[22:37:51] <Megaf> if you guys have up to 4 GB of RAM, please open RAM taxing stuff
• 2749[22:38:11] <Megaf> quickly, and saturate the buffer/cache shown in free -m
• 2750[22:38:20] <Megaf> observe if your system will hang or not
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• 2762[22:43:00] <jhutchins> Why are we still dealing with this clown for more than two hours?
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• 2768[22:48:28] <random_auroras> Megaf: A more fun version. Have a >15mb image. Use ranger with w3m-img. View it a few couple times. Instant swapping. (yeah it's terrible)
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• 2771[22:50:27] <Megaf> random_auroras: I wouldnt mind at all running all of RAM and having the system have to swap, nothing would crash, and worst case scenarion OOM killer would be triggered
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• 2774[22:50:38] <Megaf> problem is that OOM situation never happens
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• 2837[23:29:31] <annadane> where's the mailing list for updates to backport packages? i know there's a debian-backports one but that includes a bunch of other things i don't want
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• 2843[23:31:38] <n4dir> debian-backports-announce ? annadane
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• 2845[23:32:23] <annadane> yeah, just found it, thanks
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