People who Joins , Parts or Quits a chatroom
this is #debian
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2021-06-01)
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54 [00:40:38] <alexrelis[m]> I'm new to Openbox and window
managers. Does anyone know of an application launcher where I can
just press the super key and type the search the name of an
application? I'd much prefer launching applications this way.
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59 [00:43:17] <jhutchins> alexrelis[m]: It's alt-f2 in
xfce.
60 [00:43:24] <beelzebuzz> alexrelis[m]: i use the xfce app
launcher on fluxbox
61 [00:43:43] <jhutchins> !openbox
62 [00:43:43] <dpkg> Openbox is an X window manager originally
based on <Blackbox> 0.65.0, then rewritten in C (no code based
on Blackbox since v3.0).
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78 [01:03:58] <auk> alexrelis[m], i use Synapse on both i3 and
xfce
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87 [01:10:13] <ross`> how do you do an iptables -m iprange
--src-range for ipv6?
88 [01:10:19] <ross`> -m iprange --src-range
fd13:37:2::1-fd13:37:99::ffff
89 [01:10:20] <chowder> Hi guys, I was hoping someone could
assist me with my issue. I'm on the current release (stable
branch 10.6). I'm using full disk encryption with LVM2 and my
/home volume won't mount. What happened was that I shrunk it
and then grew my / volume. No problems mounting the / volume. Its
just the /home volume which fsck reports as being corrupted.
I'm on a live system and I'm doing an fsck -y on the
volume. My data is backed up I woul
90 [01:10:20] <chowder> d just rather not have to go through the
pain of a reinstall.
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92 [01:10:24] <ross`> I want to do somethign like this but
it's not working
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98 [01:18:20] <jmcnaught> chowder: did you resize2fs the
filesystem before using lvreduce on the home LV?
99 [01:18:48] <chowder> nope. that was a mistake wasn't it?
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101 [01:19:58] <jmcnaught> Yeah, there will be data missing
because the logical volume underneath the filesystem lost a bunch of
extents.
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104 [01:21:26] <chowder> jmcnaught, yeah I've been running
fsck on it for a while. I'm not sure whether I should let it
take its course or just recreate the lvm volume
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106 [01:22:11] <jmcnaught> How much space did you remove from the
volume? It might be best just to restore from backups.
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119 [01:28:42] <chowder> jmcnaught, I only removed like 20-30 GB
120 [01:28:54] <chowder> but the volumes themselves were barely
full
121 [01:30:20] <chowder> Its a 500 GB HDD that has a boot
partition and then a partition for LVM. Within the LVM partition it
has the root and home volumes. I shrunk the home volume so that root
could enjoy a bit more room. There wasn't an issue with the
root volume being mounted though. Its only the home volume.
122 [01:30:43] <chowder> luckily my backups are fairly recent.
The only things that have changed are a few PDFs that I downloaded
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124 [01:31:41] <jmcnaught> chowder: when you grow a logical
volume with a filesystem on it, you grow the LV first, and then ext4
can grow on a live system. For shrinking it's the opposite, you
need to unmount, shrink the filesystem first, then shrink the LV.
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126 [01:32:27] <jmcnaught> chowder: fortunately they made it so
in Debian 10 the installer asks if you would like to keep some of
the LVM volume group unallocated, so you can decide where to use the
extra space later.
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128 [01:33:07] <jmcnaught> Before Debian 10 the installer just
always used 100% of the volume group, leaving no room for snapshots
or later decisions.
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132 [01:35:52] <chowder> jmcnaught, ok so do you know what I
should do if I decide to nuke my home volume and recreate it?
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135 [01:37:13] <chowder> I mean, my dotfiles will be gone but I
know that I can copy some of the defaults from /etc/
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137 [01:38:54] <jmcnaught> chowder: the basic steps would be to
use lvremove on the LV, then lvcreate to make a new one, (for
example "lvcreate -L 200G -n home forge" if forge it the
VG name), then mkfs.ext4 on /dev/mapper/forge-home, then mount it
and copy your files.
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139 [01:39:52] <YWH_1>
replaced-url
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141 [01:40:29] <chowder> jmcnaught, thanks man. I'll give it
a shot. I'm still lingering to hope (why? who knows) and will
probably let fsck finish
142 [01:41:01] <jmcnaught> chowder: good luck, you are welcome to
highlight me if you run into trouble with the details.
143 [01:41:44] <chowder> thanks. fsck just finished so I'm
rebooting and hoping that fsck somehow fixed things. If not,
I'll move forward with your suggestion. Thanks again
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157 [02:00:12] <chowder> jmcnaught, hey I'm back. Even after
running fsck it didn't mount the home volume. Worth a shot
anyway. I went ahead and removed the home volume and recreated it. I
then mounted the volume and did an mkfs.ext4. There should be more
than enough room but how do I recreate the defaults for my home
directory? Like the default .bashrc
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160 [02:03:29] <chowder> jmcnaught, I also had full disk
encryption enabled. I figured that I'll need to re-encrypt the
logical volume
161 [02:03:45] <jmcnaught> chowder: /etc/skel has the files that
get put into a new account
162 [02:04:00] <chowder> ok, copied them. .bashrc, .profile, and
.bash_logout
163 [02:05:43] <chowder> I'm not sure if I luksformat the
volume at this point
164 [02:05:48] <jmcnaught> chowder: if you used guided
partitioning in the debian-installer to get LVM+encryption then the
entire volume group should still be encrypted. The layers in the
stack are: physical disk > luks encrypted volume > LVM
physical volume > LVM volume group > LVM logical volume >
filesystem
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167 [02:06:49] <chowder> ok that makes sense. I'll try
rebooting again and see if I can log in normally. Thanks again.
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172 [02:09:55] <abrotman> must be Manhattan, otherwise it would
be "chowda"
173 [02:13:50] <jim> hi, is sysrq key functionality generally
enabled by default when installing just the base?
174 [02:14:29] <jim> if not, what are my options to enable it
and/or configure it?
175 [02:15:04] <jim> links to docs or references to man pages are
most welcome
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178 [02:16:48] <jmcnaught> jim: according to the Debian Reference
it is enabled by default:
replaced-url
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180 [02:17:21] <jim> jmcnaught, thanks, much appreciated
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184 [02:24:59] <jim> which key is the sysrq key? my keyboard has
"print screen", "scroll lock" and
"pause/break".... is it one of those or soemthing else?
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187 [02:30:12] <another> should be print
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196 [02:46:00] <oiaohm> Jim sysrq is the old print screen.
197 [02:46:57] <oiaohm> jim:
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198 [02:48:12] <oiaohm> To be correct the button was system
request but since the OS most common hookup was print screen it came
labeled print screen as well.
199 [02:48:35] <oiaohm> Come forward a few years and different
keyboards no longer put the sys rq text on it.
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202 [02:50:25] <another> back in the DOS days, 'Print
screen' would actually get me a printout of the current screen
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207 [02:54:21] <jmcnaught> One of my keyboards (US) is labelled
"prt sc / sys rq", but the French Canadian one is
"Impr écran / Syet". Not sure what "syet"
is in French.
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223 [03:07:02] <solrize> anyone know if there is a FOSS cups
driver for brother laser printer? there is apparently a binary-only
one on brother's web site but i'd rather avoid binaries
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228 [03:13:09] <incal> o/ just deleted a directory by accident,
now idea what it was, is there a way to get the names (paths) of
recently deleted files?
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230 [03:14:14] <jmcnaught> solrize: is your printer on
replaced-url
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232 [03:14:53] <jmcnaught> incal: ext4magic might work if the
filesystem is ext4, I do not know how to use it myself though.
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237 [03:19:18] <incal> jmcnaught, it is ext4!
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250 [03:25:21] <solrize> jmcnaught, i think it's this one;
replaced-url
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252 [03:25:38] <solrize> but i think that points to binary only
software?
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255 [03:26:05] <solrize> i have to go look at the printer to
check the model # but i think it's that one or similar
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259 [03:27:04] <solrize> hmm the ppd view and download buttons
point to empty files
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266 [03:42:22] <jmcnaught> solrize: some printers can also use
"standard" languages for drivers, you could check the
printer's manual for PostScript or PCL support.
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271 [03:53:04] <solrize> jmcnaught, it's weird that the
openprinters page doesn't mention that then, but ok, i'll
see if i can find the manual online. i'm sure if i ever had a
paper manual it's long gone
272 [03:53:09] <solrize> thanks
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274 [03:54:04] <hl521> nftables isn't a default package in
debian, correct?
275 [03:57:56] <jmcnaught> ,i nftables
276 [03:57:57] <judd> Package nftables (net, optional) in
buster/amd64: Program to control packet filtering rules by Netfilter
project. Version: 0.9.0-2; Size: 44.1k; Installed: 113k; Homepage:
replaced-url
277 [03:58:04] <jmcnaught> ^ "optional"
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279 [04:00:20] <hl521> yeah I'm wondering if I didn't
install it with this, since after disabling it, ICMP and unifi is
working perfect
280 [04:00:56] <themill> (it's optional, but iptables
recommends it, so it would normally end up installed)
281 [04:01:05] <hl521> albeit, I really should learn how to use
it correctly
282 [04:01:09] <hl521> yeah
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285 [04:03:43] <jmcnaught> I wonder how I got iptables installed
without nftables, I never disable recommends.
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297 [04:09:51] <jak2000> hi all
298 [04:10:01] <jak2000> jmcnaught are you there (sorry if ask
direct)
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301 [04:11:10] <jmcnaught> jak2000: even if I am not here your
question is probably still worth asking :)
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339 [05:01:23] <TuxCrazy> hello, anyone here using xanmod kernel
on Debian 10?
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341 [05:02:37] <TuxCrazy> how do xanmod and liquorix kernels
affect the battery life on laptops?
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349 [05:15:21] <sney> TuxCrazy: apparently there's a
#zen-kernel on OFTC where you might find more specific answers, but
broadly, custom kernels don't "affect battery life"
in a consistent way.
350 [05:15:43] <sney> and probably not at all in most cases.
unless they did something nutty like disabling cpufreq.
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354 [05:17:11] <TuxCrazy> sney, which kernel is better for
battery life on laptops? custom kernels or the one that is provided
by the distro by default?
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356 [05:18:55] <sney> TuxCrazy: I haven't used a custom
kernel in about a decade, so I wouldn't know if there are some
super special battery optimized builds out there. but battery
efficiency is mostly a hardware thing. so again, I doubt there will
be much difference at all by using different kernels.
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358 [05:19:21] <TuxCrazy> sney, ok
359 [05:20:49] *** Quits: hl521 (~hl521@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving.)
360 [05:21:02] <sney> TuxCrazy: instead, maybe look into tweaking
the intel_pstate cpu scaling driver.
361 [05:21:18] <TuxCrazy> sney, ok
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371 [05:41:30] <sklav> Hi guys can i ask how one enables
different schedulers in debian cat /sys/block/sdb/queue/scheduler
example only displays [mq-deadline] none
372 [05:42:10] <sklav> was expecting more to be displayed example
cfq etc..
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508 [08:58:01] <leibniz> yoooo
509 [08:58:07] <leibniz> can anyone help me set up my ipv6
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511 [08:58:11] <leibniz> i'm stupid
512 [08:58:15] <leibniz> who's here
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521 [09:06:06] <xormor> how come my kernel does not compile? it
is missing an assembly file *.s.
522 [09:06:53] *** Quits: cheater (~user@replaced-ip ) (Quit: (BitchX) Reserve your copy of BitchX for the PalmPilot
today!)
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527 [09:09:18] <nkuttler> !tell xormor about errors
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531 [09:16:08] <Dagger> leibniz: you're more likely to get
answers if you ask specific questions, rather than really general
ones. noone wants to get involved without knowing what they're
getting involved with
532 [09:16:40] *** Quits: Comstock (Comstock@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
533 [09:17:00] <leibniz> no dude i'm just wondering how to
setup my ipv6
534 [09:17:04] <leibniz> 2607:5300:201:3100:0:0:0:24ca
535 [09:17:08] <leibniz> thats my ipv6
536 [09:17:11] <leibniz> what's the prefix
537 [09:17:19] <leibniz> hmmm
538 [09:17:22] *** Joins: tocka (uid198544@replaced-ip )
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540 [09:19:25] <leibniz> ip addr add
2607:5300:201:3100:0:0:0:24ca/2607:5300:201:3100::::24ca/128 dev
eth0
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548 [09:27:02] <TuxCrazy> hello, anyone here using liquorix or
xanmod kernels on Debian 10?
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550 [09:29:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1156
551 [09:29:13] <Dagger> normally it will just autoconfig from the
network setup and you won't need to do anything
552 [09:29:17] *** Joins: Tobbi (~Tobbi@replaced-ip )
553 [09:29:19] * Dagger checks whois... oh boy, OVH
554 [09:29:58] <themill> TuxCrazy: the answer is not likely to be
different from 4h ago
555 [09:30:46] <TuxCrazy> themill, lol.
556 [09:30:48] <Dagger> well, normally I would say: `ip addr add
2607:5300:201:3100::24ca/64 dev eth0`, but this is OVH so the
network may actually be /56
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606 [10:09:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1163
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622 [10:24:50] <DrBunsen> Heya all, is there an easy way to test
the network latency, jitter and connection speed between 2 systems
in the same network?
623 [10:26:03] *** Joins: NetTerminalGene (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip )
624 [10:28:47] *** Joins: chipxxx (~root@replaced-ip )
625 [10:29:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1172
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631 [10:33:20] <ratrace> DrBunsen: with iperf3 maybe?
632 [10:35:35] *** Joins: simplicius (~gidna@replaced-ip )
633 [10:35:40] <simplicius> Hello
634 [10:36:03] <simplicius> what's the name of this:
635 [10:36:06] <simplicius>
data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAP4AAADGCAMAAADFYc2jAAACVVBMVEXOzs709PTR0dHPz8+oqKj8/PzY2NjT09P39/fg4ODDw8Pe3t7W1ta9vb3t7e3b29uzs7OdnZ3l5eXIyMiysrLFwMunp6cAAAC/v787Ozve3OFCQkLv7+8pKSmMjIw1NTUbGxvOytPR0szT0sKAgIAgICBISEhVVVXCvcldXV3j4ebY1dwmJibNydJxcXHS0sRjY2N1e37Nxav58d+mmpSvh2iUkpmpjm53WFPU07m/rok3SHS4o4lUXHaTtLyHpLaasMKxv81xfZb///F/dnjNycN4c4qWeW3NwqRhUGjD3ebf3tObhXZxe4SFiZRrXnWrkXyAaWjH1tFpVV
636 [10:36:08] <simplicius>
6BhXvDsqC6v7WDcGfE0d1cbo6HqcVmhJ+/3O7NrpCNc11yj6qtwdSgqLWBTiUqdKmeeFMcNklPTmeIXD1EfKLcvJIOKE6JYzY1Y4osGxYbS4TLxZssCjBWUzTW8vhRSD1nSTVkkrw0MUclNjsMGycAFTUtAwv73rJceYcZABzBlFKFmZ4AAFLp//EAAC6c0Ok9XitdfyZ1fR1+byUtFCgAAB1kUUHFnncAAET67cCQxehDejp0o15TXRNhUQqDYA8LO1dWGgA5AAA2Y1Fpk3iKtYVbNgmARQ1SiYRVUh6NUDE8cYZrMiYVKFtXLmKBPV6VUFkdNmlJE2d+Q3mINUkuKX1zOYFFLnVLHJBaPUtHNlv/+suKr97a8M6prJRdMDRJXYaXqJl5UUlTPDdOXGWSdlG4jI
637 [10:36:09] *** Joins: onejukeboksi (~noname@replaced-ip )
638 [10:36:10] <simplicius>
ygMTCnAADDX165ame8CgDPRTzLlpPgdmnJQTLbu7fuPRnpmYunqnHAAAAYV0lEQVR4nO2di2Max53HV7PrXV4LC7tGECRkA0GRZa8QehDclVgwKxEJMEJexEMS0Dp20rhOKzvpI76qbdq7ntL02rvr9a7XS9tr07s+7DRuUsu5tm5yuf5dN7MLCGFJCAssOeIraTUzO+z8PjuzszOzswPW22tnbPQxlI2x9/ZivR6Tsc94DNVnNHl6MbvJoj2mspjsGHFs6SE/gXFafWeF0mkSYSdn5wQTqZik5TqP72IYm2kva2LPzVXdUrjDxqD0aExr4kjFCfH1JiQMCpg6oPl4wpmcMxng0XEDRpIoFbQhMQon4RYj/RfnAGkyAcwwnyrAsPZLLYEVj9bsYc1OgxLOYYSJJK
639 [10:36:12] <simplicius>
EZzsGhIRo52yyTeyE0bNG643wivcDPpOOjfHgEbfyLHj5EphIe0b94yRfSyz4+klnik9n2G2GizVC6yoFNWqvHSSoeE6Hik6TRzLPatieMkpCdfCIr5Iza+YW8cWXKlioIaONfXF4puOJJZjiGXPOr+flVUShq9R2replaced-url
640 [10:36:12] *** simplicius was kicked by debhelper (flood)
641 [10:36:41] <Druid> oops
642 [10:38:00] <Haohmaru> bruuuuh
643 [10:38:06] <diogenes_> nice architecture.
644 [10:40:12] *** Quits: _aeris_ (~aeris@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
645 [10:40:46] <petn-randall> hahahaha, wtf
646 [10:41:26] *** Joins: _aeris_ (~aeris@replaced-ip )
647 [10:42:34] *** Joins: Paraquat (~333@replaced-ip )
648 [10:43:07] *** Quits: Prints (~333@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
649 [10:44:27] *** Quits: bb-8 (~bb-8@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
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657 [10:53:26] *** Quits: leibniz (~trev@replaced-ip ) (Quit: WeeChat 3.0-rc1)
658 [10:59:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1179
659 [10:59:09] <tramplefoot> did that person just dump an entire
png image as raw data?
660 [10:59:48] <ratrace> where's Sigyn....
661 [11:00:07] <hwm4rgs> it's invalid base64
662 [11:00:09] *** Quits: zamnedix (~zamnedix@replaced-ip##) (Quit: ZNC 1.7.5+deb4 - ##replaced-url
663 [11:00:21] <hwm4rgs> probably not complete, client side flood
protection
664 [11:00:38] <Haohmaru> client-side!? he was kicked
665 [11:00:42] <ksk> I think some clients do that, for him he was
just drag&dropping some image.
666 [11:00:46] <hwm4rgs> oh, haha
667 [11:01:25] *** Joins: zamnedix (~zamnedix@replaced-ip )
668 [11:02:57] *** Quits: Lupricon (~Lupricon@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
669 [11:03:18] *** Joins: Lupricon (~Lupricon@replaced-ip )
670 [11:04:15] <petn-randall> I wonder what client that was,
though. My IRC client can't do that.
671 [11:04:32] *** Quits: Emmanuel_Chanel (~Emmanuel_@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
672 [11:04:43] <petn-randall> And I'd be surprised if that
"feature" is widespread, because most clients won't
be able to make sense of that.
673 [11:04:53] <Haohmaru> WeeChat 2.3 (Jan 4 2019 16:06:44)
674 [11:05:00] <petn-randall> Might also just be a failed troll
attempt, who knows.
675 [11:05:03] <joze> google image results are some times base64
676 [11:05:11] <Haohmaru> i'd think he copy-pasted some text
677 [11:05:28] <Druid> maybe he thought drag drop would give url
to us
678 [11:05:34] <Druid> but it gave the base64
679 [11:05:46] <joze> that's some nasty google image stuff
680 [11:06:50] *** Joins: rsx (~rsx@replaced-ip )
681 [11:06:50] <ratrace> <jackie_chan_meme.jpg>
682 [11:06:56] <ratrace> this is how you paste images into irc
683 [11:07:29] <Haohmaru> it works with gifs too
<magic.gif>
684 [11:07:35] <ratrace> yup
685 [11:08:05] <ratrace> And it autodetects your password,
protects it: *******
686 [11:10:15] <themill> looks like hunter2 here
687 [11:10:49] *** Joins: EriC^^ (~Eric@replaced-ip )
688 [11:10:50] <Haohmaru> i confirm, it looks like ******* here
as well
689 [11:11:00] *** Parts: EriC^^ (~Eric@replaced-ip ) ("Leaving")
690 [11:12:52] <ksk> ))
691 [11:13:06] *** Joins: shtrb (~shtrb@replaced-ip )
692 [11:14:26] *** Quits: coot (~coot@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
693 [11:15:20] <ratrace> right. "11:10 < themill>
looks like ******* here"
694 [11:15:39] *** Joins: coot (~coot@replaced-ip )
695 [11:16:46] <Onyx47> you kid, but that would actually be a
useful feature, if it were possible... managed to accidentally do
that a few times when hitting autotype shortcut in KeePass with
wrong window in focus
696 [11:16:55] <themill> Why do you all keep writing hunter2 like
that. How did you know my password?
697 [11:17:09] <Onyx47> wonder if there's a way to tell
KeePass to never type in some windows, would be a good feature if
not
698 [11:17:21] *** Quits: fiet (~nobody@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
699 [11:18:07] <Haohmaru> Onyx47 don't type sensitive IRC
commands into channel/query windows.. use the Status window (or
equivalent), or open a query window with the respective services bot
700 [11:18:20] *** Joins: fiet (~nobody@replaced-ip )
701 [11:18:26] *** Quits: Zblakany (~Zblakany@replaced-ip ) (Quit: ZZZzzz…)
702 [11:18:54] <jelly> Onyx47: KeePassXC has "use entry
title to match windows for global Auto-Type"
703 [11:18:56] *** Joins: Emmanuel_Chanel (~Emmanuel_@replaced-ip )
704 [11:19:03] <Onyx47> Haohmaru: it wasn't even IRC auth, I
have that set up through SASL, I simply clicked on the IRC window on
accident before hitting autotype
705 [11:19:30] <Haohmaru> turn those automatic sh*ts off then ;P~
706 [11:19:34] <Onyx47> jelly: hm, is that per entry or global
setting? beccause I didn't notice it, if it's there I
should set that up ASAP
707 [11:19:51] <jelly> which keepass are you actually using
708 [11:19:58] <jelly> Onyx47: it's global
709 [11:20:09] <petn-randall> keepass has an autotype feature?
710 [11:20:15] <Onyx47> Haohmaru: PEBKAC can still strike,
there's no defence against that :P
711 [11:20:20] <jelly> there are several keepass forks
712 [11:20:23] <Onyx47> jelly: KeePassXC
713 [11:20:37] <Haohmaru> hm, i'm using keepassx
714 [11:21:04] <jelly> clearly the ones with more letters or
numbers appended must be better in some way
715 [11:21:18] <Haohmaru> :/
716 [11:21:24] <ratrace> Onyx47: irc SASL ftw
717 [11:21:39] <Onyx47> ah, I see it, but that means I need to
set up those matches per-password... worth it I guess, I only have a
few that are not for websites and stuff, and in the browser the
extension handles it
718 [11:21:57] <shtrb> Wouldn't wayland defend from such
actions ?
719 [11:22:30] <ratrace> defend from what? copy paste operations
between programs? I surely hope it doesn't.... or else...
720 [11:22:42] <jelly> autotype is different from copy/paste
721 [11:23:02] <shtrb> ratrace, copy/paste itself might be not
supported with wayland :P
722 [11:23:42] <ratrace> well whatever program implements it,
wayland compositors better don't mess with that!
723 [11:23:56] <shtrb> it's security !
724 [11:24:13] <jelly> Onyx47: there's also a slightly
different option right below in the settings perhaps more suitable
for your workflow
725 [11:24:34] *** Quits: allorder (~allorder@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
726 [11:25:19] <jelly> ratrace: if wayland allows for virtual
keyboards or other programmed input devs, presumably it can be told
to allow using keepass as input dev as well
727 [11:26:25] <ratrace> guess so
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732 [11:35:57] <Haohmaru> keepassx's password generator is
convenient, but sometimes i wish it could be made to generate
passwords with words or something that can be memorized..
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735 [11:39:45] <leibniz> it worked
736 [11:39:57] <leibniz> > /Whois leibniz
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758 [11:58:51] <ratrace> how would you test a command that has to
be run as a user with no login shell, that has to use passwordless
sudo to exec a script....
759 [11:59:13] <ratrace> like .... sudo -u userfoo 'sudo
/some/script' but eh, that doesn't seem to work as
expected
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762 [12:00:11] <ksk> ratrace: are you root when invoking this?
sudo is not really suited for dropping privs, or so I'm told.
763 [12:00:22] <ksk> systemd unit is not possible?
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765 [12:01:24] <ratrace> yes I'm root, and I'm dumb....
I gave the sudo command in quotes, like I would with su -c .....
dropped quotes, all works now. thanks 'neway.
766 [12:01:41] *** GWBush is now known as xormor
767 [12:02:23] <ratrace> systemd unit is not applicable here.
it's an unpriv service that has no login shell and I need to
give it very constrained access to some privileg actions through a
custom passwordless script, but I wanted to test this first
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780 [12:18:34] <ratrace> so I don't understand something.
when I run on the server sudo -u someuser sudo /some/script , then
all works as expected, as the script is allowed with NOPASSWD in a
sudoers.d config file
781 [12:19:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1185
782 [12:19:13] <ratrace> but... if I run over ssh (with no -t),
it complains about no tty present and no askpass program specified.
Now, if I add Defaults:someuser !requiretty to sudoers, it still
complains like that
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784 [12:19:49] <ratrace> what am I missing here.... this sudo
crapshit nonsense is getting on my friggin nerves. I TOTALLY
understand why Lennart wanted to rewrite this shiz
785 [12:20:22] <shtrb> ratrace, some scripts need tools such as
dbus session maybe that is what fail for you ? you could even do
sudo -u foobar '/bin/bash -c "sudo evilscript"'
786 [12:20:38] <ratrace> no, dbus is not involved here
787 [12:21:04] <ratrace> the problem is no tty present when the
sudo is invoked
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789 [12:21:30] <ratrace> it's invoked by a service
that's not under my control, so I can't tell it to
allocate a pseudotty or sumfin
790 [12:21:37] <shtrb> try this evil approach : screen -Dm sudo
-u foo /bin/bash -c "sudo evilscript"
791 [12:21:45] <ratrace> so I'm testing this no-tty thing
via ssh _without_ -t
792 [12:21:50] <ratrace> shtrb: no
793 [12:22:10] <jelly> ratrace: your outer sudo from you to -u
someuser also needs !requiretty
794 [12:23:34] <ratrace> jelly: but I tried even disabling
requiretty globally
795 [12:23:48] <jelly> figure out which sudo complains and why
796 [12:24:17] <ratrace> the outer one hmmm
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803 [12:27:17] <ratrace> ah bad test case environment used wrong
ssh user.... duh
804 [12:27:50] <ratrace> okay this won't work. .... any
suggestions how to test no-tty invocation of sudo _without_ ssh? :)
805 [12:30:53] <afidegnum> hi, what can cause ETIMEDOUT error
while transferring bunches of file on pure-ftpd even though
Keep-alive commands is being sent?
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814 [12:46:41] <ksk> crossposting from ##linux maybe :>
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819 [12:53:55] <unixbsd> hello
820 [12:54:33] <unixbsd> I would like to write a log line into
dmesg, so that somthing shows up in dmesg. is that possible,? like
echo blabla >> /.../dmesg
821 [12:57:07] <jelly> unixbsd: you'd have to write to
/dev/kmsg
822 [12:58:40] <ksk> there is also "logger".
823 [12:58:54] <unixbsd> jelly: thank you very much !! it is
marvellous
824 [12:59:05] <unixbsd> echo test >> /dev/kmsg work very
well
825 [12:59:12] <jelly> logger writes to syslog
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827 [12:59:50] <jelly> and systemd journal apparently
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830 [13:01:14] <ratrace> which is the proper way to do it, why
else would you print(k) into the ring buffer?
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832 [13:01:43] <ratrace> ie, you want a kern facility message in
the logs, nay?
833 [13:02:35] <jelly> it's what they asked. dmesg, not
syslog, not journal
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836 [13:02:55] <jelly> things don't go from syslog back into
kernel
837 [13:03:25] <jelly> only systemd abuses that to save its
messages _somewhere_ during early userspace
838 [13:03:56] <jelly> and if misconfigured, also does that later
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841 [13:04:41] <jelly> oh, forgot about priority
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843 [13:05:04] <jelly> unixbsd:
replaced-url
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845 [13:06:32] <jelly> > For correct formatting in the syslog,
be sure to add a priority (delimited with angles) and a tag
(delimited by a colon). echo '<4>Foo: Message' |
sudo tee /dev/kmsg
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847 [13:07:06] <jelly> angles!
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855 [13:20:48] <unixbsd> it will likely work with /dev/kmsg, I
prefer to stay Linux rather than using any systemd. who really
knows, systemd is so much making slow the system. maybe in some
years debian will realize that and go for openrc. dream among many
of us.
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858 [13:25:57] <jelly> I haven't noticed anything going
"slow", just the opposite
859 [13:26:46] <unixbsd> (well, compare slackware with debian...
it is with facts, visible. better we dont talk about systemd)
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861 [13:27:09] <jelly> I haven't used slackware this century
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863 [13:27:27] <unixbsd> ps aux | grep systemd
864 [13:28:05] <jim> I haven't either, this is probably
unrelated, but I think firefox's memory leaks sometimes take my
system all the way down and I have to reboot, but probably has
nothing to do with systemd
865 [13:28:22] <jelly> I do have a couple Debian 8, maybe 9
running with sysvinit, but they boot slower than systemd ones
866 [13:28:36] <jim> unixbsd, could it be you're swapping?
check output of free
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868 [13:29:45] <unixbsd> I would be curious to test debian,
slackware, and a devuan on a raspberry pi zero. good way to
investigate the three techs.
869 [13:29:55] <xormor>
replaced-url
870 [13:30:35] <jim> are you gonna run them simultaneously too?
:)
871 [13:32:43] <jelly> xormor: is there a question hiding behind
that image, I don't get it
872 [13:33:08] <tarzeau> xormor: but that's just 4 cores you
have? 13 year old stuff?
873 [13:34:02] <tarzeau> is that disk swap you use? (swapon would
tell you) - i prefer zram it's way faster
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875 [13:34:34] <tarzeau> and if you say kernels? is that linux
kernels? or kfreebsd or something else?
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880 [13:37:47] <xormor> tarzeau: from 2013, so it is already 7
years old. this is old technology. from 2013. I am using this, even
though I have problems with the old style HDD. it may be that I
moved the tower computer so that the needle hit the surface of the
HDD or it may be that I used Alt+SysRq+REISUB so it broke a bit, or
the HDD may be wearing out. Western Digital Corporation, 1TB in
decimal, I think in binary it is 0.9TB,
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882 [13:37:53] <oiaohm> tarzeau: that image is a Linux kernel
build.
883 [13:37:53] <xormor> over 900 gigs.
884 [13:38:02] <xormor> tarzeau: Linux kernels.
885 [13:38:05] <xormor> oiaohm: right.
886 [13:38:16] <oiaohm> The kvm bit is a dead give away.
887 [13:38:46] <oiaohm> There are other locations in the build
like the drm section picking if it Linux or freebsd get really hard.
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890 [13:39:12] <tarzeau> xormor: i'm also using a 7 year old
machine (32cores, 96 gb mem though :)
891 [13:39:47] <oiaohm> The machine I am sitting at is a fair new
amd system with 8 cores 16 threads and 32G of memory.
892 [13:40:06] <tarzeau> oiaohm: noisy?
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895 [13:40:47] <oiaohm> Not that bad. Particularly thinking is a
fully open bench.
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897 [13:41:09] <oiaohm> and I am still using the stock cooler.
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899 [13:42:06] <oiaohm> The noise is not really my biggest
annoyance. I hate the RGB puke and the fun to have to turn that off.
900 [13:42:33] <tarzeau> oiaohm: i often use a scissor for that
(too lazy to power off :)
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902 [13:42:58] <ws2k3> i have a weird issue. my
/var/lib/apt/lists/partial contains 80 gb of data. can i just delete
this?
903 [13:43:02] <oiaohm> I am going for a black china made 40
dollar tower coolor to replace the stock cooler.
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906 [13:44:04] <jelly> ws2k3: yes
907 [13:44:14] <jelly> ws2k3: just run "apt-get clean"
908 [13:44:30] <ws2k3> jelly: that does not seem to clean it
909 [13:44:35] <jelly> wait, lists/partial?
910 [13:44:56] <ws2k3> yes
911 [13:45:11] <jelly> sure, delete them. Do you have a really
really horrible firewall or proxy somewhere breaking your apt-get
update constantly
912 [13:46:05] <oiaohm> Just make sure there is not a apt auto
update running in background first. basically stop unattented
updates.
913 [13:46:19] <oiaohm> while you clean it up.
914 [13:46:32] <oiaohm> You don't want to be deleteing
partials that are wanted.
915 [13:47:17] <jelly> eh, just run apt-get update again
916 [13:47:49] <jelly> lists, not packages
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943 [14:16:51] <rootkea> Hello! I just installed Debian
10.6.0+Xfce and tap-to-click doesn't work. There is
40-libinput.conf in /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d. Why it's not in
/etc/X11/xorg.conf.d and has to copy explicitly? Especially in a
freshly installed Debian which has libinput package installed by
default and no synaptics driver installed.
944 [14:17:26] <rootkea> s/has to copy/has to be copied
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949 [14:26:09] <xormor> is "make localmodconfig" a good
idea to use in a Debian build of the Linux kernel in a Debian GNU
system for a 64-bit Intel desktop tower PC system? I have a memory
card reader, several USB ports, a LAN socket and HDMI.
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953 [14:27:53] <shtrb> xormor, it depends , you can rebuild a
kernel , make a package of it and reinstall, all the devices you had
listed already should work out of the box
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995 [15:08:31] <unixbsd> Hi, I have a western digital at end of
life, i.e.
replaced-url
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998 [15:09:59] <petn-randall> unixbsd: What does `smartctl -a
/dev/sda` output for you?
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1002 [15:16:19] <unixbsd> hello this is the output of smartctl :
replaced-url
1003 [15:17:50] <petn-randall> unixbsd: current pending sector,
and offline uncorrectible are two important things here.
1004 [15:18:08] <unixbsd> ah. ok.
1005 [15:18:28] <petn-randall> unixbsd: current pending sector
means that 64507 sectors are currently unreadable, but *could* be
overwritten so the firmware reallocates them.
1006 [15:18:34] <unixbsd> if i format ext3, maybe it can smart
skip them no?
1007 [15:18:49] <petn-randall> That being said, with over 64k
current pending sectors, that disk is dead.
1008 [15:19:12] <unixbsd> really. wow
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1010 [15:19:38] <petn-randall> You *could* try to wipe it by
overwriting the complete disk with zeroes, but IME that disk is dead
if it has more than a few dozen pending sectors.
1011 [15:20:07] <unixbsd> i am interested to experiment it a bit
this disk to practice FS
1012 [15:20:15] <petn-randall> unixbsd: Assuming this is the right
disk, `cp /dev/zero /dev/sda` will wipe disk for you, and reallocate
those sectors.
1013 [15:20:24] <unixbsd> i thought about ZFS that has great fs
1014 [15:20:38] <petn-randall> Usually that number climbs as the
firmware finds more unreadable sectors.
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1016 [15:20:44] <unixbsd> ok, let's go for `cp /dev/zero
/dev/sda`
1017 [15:20:50] <CrystalMath> unixbsd: that destroys all data
1018 [15:21:01] <CrystalMath> just clearing things up
1019 [15:21:37] <petn-randall> Yes, that wipe all data on it, but
AFAIU the disk has an empty filesystem.
1020 [15:21:41] <unixbsd> yeah ok, this is experimental
1021 [15:21:44] <petn-randall> *that'll
1022 [15:21:55] <unixbsd> I am interested in trying for learning
sthg about disks.
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1024 [15:22:05] <petn-randall> unixbsd: You can run that on one
terminal, and run `watch smartctl -A /dev/sda` on the other.
1025 [15:22:15] <unixbsd> i use scren
1026 [15:22:23] <unixbsd> e
1027 [15:22:27] <petn-randall> But I'm guessing it'll
mechanically fail before the wipe command finishes.
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1030 [15:24:28] <gpunk> Hi there :) I would like to disable some
repos, and do a "downgrade" of the packages ... is it
possible "right off the bat" ?
1031 [15:24:50] <greycat> If you are even able to CONCEIVE of that
question, you already have a frankendebian.
1032 [15:25:03] <unixbsd> i believe that if the mbr and table are
r/w maybe there are still chances to get a fs to deal with bad
sectors
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1036 [15:26:19] <gpunk> greycat: very good, now do have an answer
I can use ?
1037 [15:26:42] <greycat> !don't break debian
1038 [15:26:42] <dpkg> rumour has it, dont break debian is
replaced-url
1039 [15:27:04] <greycat> !downgrade
1040 [15:27:04] <dpkg> Downgrading is not, nor will ever be
supported by apt. Programs change their data in a way that
can't be rolled back, and package maintainer scripts support
upgrades to new config file formats but not downgrades. Try:
"dpkg -i olderversion.deb" or "aptitude install
package=version" using "apt-cache policy package" to
get the old version number. See also <partial downgrade>,
<unstable->testing>, <sdo>.
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1042 [15:27:06] <gpunk> greycat: then your intervention is useless
1043 [15:27:13] <greycat> *plonk*
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1045 [15:27:31] <Kurozen> Hello
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1048 [15:28:09] <Kurozen> There seems to be 3 ISO DVD files for
debian AMD64 release ... how does one suppose to put that on a
bootable USB?
1049 [15:28:14] *** Joins: Jerrynicki (~niklas@replaced-ip )
1050 [15:28:24] <Kurozen> ... I'll go see the install guide
now
1051 [15:28:31] <greycat> You only need to boot the first one.
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1054 [15:29:10] <greycat> The only reason you'd even
*download* the other DVDs (after #1) would be if you plan to do a
bunch of offline installations.
1055 [15:30:12] <greycat> Offline installations won't give
you a working sources.list file, and they won't allow you to
retrieve security patches for the packages you're selecting.
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1065 [15:37:25] <petn-randall> unixbsd: That's not how it
works.
1066 [15:38:12] <petn-randall> unixbsd: No fs, nor the kernel, has
any knowledge about faulty sectors. That's the job of the
firmware to handle that.
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1068 [15:38:45] <ratrace> gpunk: here's a usable one: yes.
just don't ask how, because that's not supported here,
greycat just wanted to save you the time for followup questions.
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1070 [15:40:34] <gpunk> ok :) I had the impression that he was a
little too much sarcastic, I would had said a big thank to him, if
simply answer something like: "no, it is not supported" :)
1071 [15:40:53] <gpunk> that's cool no worries :)
1072 [15:41:20] <Kurozen> greycat: so 2 and 3 are for additional
packages? Cause I'm trying to construct compilation
instructions for a project across many distros but it then depends
whether it's a full or semi full install
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1074 [15:41:54] <ratrace> gpunk: it's not sarcasm,
frankendebians are consider a big no-no here. and you posing the
question you posed implies you had one there to begin with
1075 [15:41:56] <Kurozen> I could just base it on DVD1 and another
case for DVD1+2+3 I guess for dependencies
1076 [15:42:10] *** Quits: k4nz (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1077 [15:42:11] <greycat> There is no such thing as a "full
install" of Debian. When you install, you get the base system,
then whatever firmware-type packages the installer thinks you need
based on the hardware it detects, and finally you get a menu where
you can select "tasks" which are mostly Desktop
Environments.
1078 [15:42:29] <greycat> Any other packages you want that
aren't part of a standard DE task would have to be selected by
the user.
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1081 [15:44:09] <Kurozen> Allright then I just consider DVD1 as
the base mainstream install then that most people do and write a
guide based on that. One more question ..
1082 [15:44:56] <Kurozen> Does the Live USB boot mode enable
everything that an offline install does? I know I have to use TORAM
in ubuntu to get access to all programs in live boot, otherwise
it's not the full experience.
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1085 [15:45:50] <ratrace> Kurozen: I believe in context of your
question the netinst does the same thing, only downloads from the
net and not from a local mountpoint
1086 [15:46:13] <greycat> if you're going to install over and
over and over to test things, then having the full DVD-1 might be
good
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1089 [15:47:12] <Kurozen> greycat: Install over and over again?
You mean Debian?
1090 [15:49:12] <Kurozen> I would like if it's possible to
emulate the same exact experience in a live boot that is possible
with the whatever full install debian has, so I don't have to
use spare SSDs I have allocated for something else to do this,
because I only need to complete a default install/boot and compile
an unrelated project and compile it while documenting the process
(dnecessary ependencies, configs)
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1092 [15:49:16] <greycat> Yes. If that's what you're
doing, then having a full DVD image (as opposed to a netinst) is
good.
1093 [15:49:42] <greycat> I can't answer any of your
questions about "live" images. I don't use those.
1094 [15:49:46] <Kurozen> Once I'm done I'll be done
with debian and onto another distro, me myself I won't need
debian installed or anything, it's about making a walkthrough
guide for others.
1095 [15:50:09] <greycat> If you're only going to install
once, then just use the netinst image.
1096 [15:50:26] <greycat> You get the same end result, and
you'll waste a lot less bandwidth.
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1098 [15:51:04] <Kurozen> No, why? Others who will read the
compilation guide are debian users, it's meant for most
standard debian user, they probably won't have netinst/minimal
install, am I not correct?
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1100 [15:51:25] <greycat> The image you start from has nothing to
do with the set of packages you end up with.
1101 [15:51:28] <ratrace> Kurozen: like greycat hinted at, Debian
does not have a "live boot [...] full install" like, say,
Ubuntu does.
1102 [15:51:35] <greycat> What matters is the selection you make
in the task menu at the end.
1103 [15:51:53] <greycat> If the packages that are needed to
fulfill your reauest are on the medium you already have, then it
uses those. Otherwise it downloads them.
1104 [15:51:54] <Kurozen> The official website states "Any CD
or DVD can also be booted from USB"
1105 [15:51:57] <ratrace> there's the installer, there's
the questions and user choosing them. based on those options, and
apt installs later post boot, it may or may not be "full"
installation.
1106 [15:52:18] <ratrace> %s/choosing/answering/
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1108 [15:54:06] <Kurozen> The point is, someone who is a debian
user has things installed already, so not going through
"choosing process" most likely anymore, unless in some
edge case of doing both at the same time, and needs to know ahead
which packages to get to compile a project, not waste time figuring
it out manually.
1109 [15:54:06] <xormor> how I pass an argument to an already
running process like "make"? I want to pass the argument
"-j4" to it. It is already running.
1110 [15:54:26] <greycat> You don't.
1111 [15:54:28] <ratrace> xormor: don't think you can
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1114 [15:55:16] <greycat> In the specific case of make, you can
just kill it (usually by pressing Ctrl-C) and then run it again with
the -j4 argument. Make is designed to pick up where it left off.
1115 [15:55:35] <greycat> In other cases, what you're
requesting is simply impossible.
1116 [15:55:52] <Kurozen> But even if the packages are easy to
get, I would still like to go through the experience for any other
things, I guess it's all about figuring out what the popular
debian installs are, or do you guys think they're very
inconsistent, like does everyone use netinst and only gets the
packages for their niche stuff?
1117 [15:56:13] <EdePopede> putting options into a config file and
then signal the process to reread it should work in cases i guess
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1119 [15:57:53] <greycat> Kurozen: the most popular Debian install
will take the default, which is to install GNOME.
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1123 [16:02:16] <Kurozen> That's the GUI, what about the
default boundled packages?
1124 [16:02:34] <greycat> I'm getting tired of repeating
myself. Just do it.
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1127 [16:03:38] <Kurozen> Allright so I guess, if I use the
offline DVD1, and not choose some thing, they don't get used
and get left on the USB stick. Yes a valid point for downloading.
1128 [16:04:16] <shtrb> Kurozen, you could download more DVD later
(if you don't have network acess) and add packages from that
dvds
1129 [16:04:29] <Kurozen> But the point is, about a baseline
"choose" that a debian user that programs C++ and stuff
like that, is interested in gaming, would use.
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1132 [16:05:51] <shtrb> developing in C++ covers anything from
Machine learning to OpenCV to deepfakes to hello world it's
bloody everything
1133 [16:06:06] <Kurozen> shtrb: The crux of the issue is, yes I
could install all 3 DVDs, everything, with all the packages
(dependencies) and the project would compile straight on with only 1
or 2 outstanding dependencies, but that is not a realistic case
scenario for most debian users that would be reading my compilation
guide.
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1135 [16:06:43] <shtrb> Don't install , have the packages
offline ideling until you learn that you need them
1136 [16:07:12] <Kurozen> Then I would write: Hey to complile XYZ
project all you need on debian is ffmpeg and qtbase5-private-dev,
oktnxybe ... only for cases with DVD1+2+3, probably not for most
base installs with netinst/DVD1
1137 [16:07:29] <greycat> No, you literally cannot "install
all 3 DVDs". It is not an option. It is not possible.
1138 [16:07:37] <greycat> There are conflicting packages.
1139 [16:08:09] <greycat> The DVDs are just miniature offline
repositories of stale packages.
1140 [16:08:18] <Kurozen> Wow this is a lot more complicated than
I ever imagined :D
1141 [16:08:36] <greycat> You only install the things you actually
*request*, either by selecting one of the half-dozen things in the
installer's tasksel menu, or by running apt, apt-get, aptitude,
synaptic, etc.
1142 [16:09:11] <shtrb> Kurozen, think of it as having access to
the entire British Library , you have no possible way to read
everything there , you need to select stuff, a package is like a
book, there are more books getting in all the time
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1144 [16:09:34] <greycat> Not a perfect analogy, though, because
books don't mutually exclude each other.
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1146 [16:10:02] <Kurozen> I guess to point out the fundamental
goal, is to make the compilation and dev environment setup
friendlier to new developers of a project, if they happen to use
debian mainly. I'm not currently installing for myself, just
trying to replicate.
1147 [16:10:02] * ratrace is of an opinion that if you need to write so
through guides, and can't rely on your users to know how to
install the OS ... they shouldn't be compiling software for it
to begin with
1148 [16:10:06] <shtrb> Kurozen, when you enter , some people can
suggest you books based on your interests (which is the basic stuff)
etc
1149 [16:10:13] <shtrb> greycat, sorry
1150 [16:10:15] <ratrace> so *thorough
1151 [16:11:10] <Kurozen> ratrace: No the project does not involve
doing debian install at the same time, it has nothing to do with
debian setup, only I have to do the setup step because I have no
debian at all, just to clear that up.
1152 [16:11:11] * shtrb dissagrees with ratrace as he was in the same
situation not long ago , you just need to know what the devs need ,
and prepare a system for them
1153 [16:11:23] <greycat> so your devs are monkeys
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1155 [16:12:00] <shtrb> greycat, it could be that we do not have
all the information , or the policies in place , let us not insult
people like that please
1156 [16:12:01] <Kurozen> No no, ofcourse the devs usually have to
figure out on their own, but if we make it a bit easier, they may
not lose the movtivation just getting things setup, is my theory, my
own initiative.
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1158 [16:12:45] <shtrb> Kurozen, just install all packages which
are requried for their work (based on the libs they use and project
they use )
1159 [16:13:09] <ratrace> handholding users to blindly installing
software without understanding what they're doing has created
abominations like curl|sudo bash
1160 [16:13:20] <ratrace> and if they're "devs",
that's way, way, way worse.
1161 [16:13:44] *** Quits: scakko (~scakko@replaced-ip ) (Quit: scakko)
1162 [16:13:47] <Kurozen> I've started using Kubuntu for my
secondary dev environment, I had trouble compiling for the first
time as expected, I looked in the project's Wiki and it was
quite outdated so I took the time to improve tips for other distros
as well :
1163 [16:14:17] <shtrb> ratrace, we do not know his system , let
us not jump to conclusions
1164 [16:15:39] <ratrace> there's no jumping to conclusions.
it's one thing to detail what "the system" needs in
terms of software or hardware dependencies, and quite another on
detailing how to install the whole OS on which you want to use that
1165 [16:15:41] <shtrb> Kurozen, will the devs have access to
internet later ? just give them preferred IDE (vim :P ) , the
selected compilers , the packs required by your environment to build
your system , docker etc
1166 [16:15:52] <Kurozen> The devs are unknown, the public, the
project is an opensource thing on github, ... is it not obvious what
I'm talking about? Sorry if I assumed then.
1167 [16:16:11] <shtrb> ratrace, let us take it to #d-o
1168 [16:16:26] <ratrace> Kurozen: it's even worse then that
you have to explain soemeone how to installd debian in order to use
your software
1169 [16:16:28] <shtrb> *debian-offtopic
1170 [16:16:32] <greycat> Kurozen: just figure out what your build
dependencies are and put them in the README.
1171 [16:16:54] <greycat> Kurozen: e.g. "for Debian, before
compiling, run apt install build-essential libncurses5-dev"
1172 [16:17:15] <ratrace> it's one thing to write a guide on
how to get the sources for your software from github, how to get the
dependencies etc.... and generally, how to do things _after_ the
user has made ~/dev/yoursoftware and wants to unpack the sources and
build it there
1173 [16:17:25] *** Quits: pergaminho (~Cleber@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1174 [16:17:31] <shtrb> Kurozen, your project should not requrie
people to have a definite setup , just have build instructions
(better build a deb package directly ) and requierd stuff
1175 [16:17:41] <Kurozen> ratrace: No, you're
misunderstanding, perhaps I did not come here explaining it well
enough, explaining the debian setup process is NOT part of the
guide, that's only for me to setup debian in order to go and
try compiling that project myself and to SEE how it's like, and
document any issues.
1176 [16:17:42] <ratrace> yup.
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1179 [16:18:13] <Kurozen> That's why I talked about setup,
since I never installed debian before
1180 [16:18:44] <ratrace> Kurozen: get the netinst iso or dvd1,
"burn" it onto a stick, boot into it, choose a desktop if
you want it, when it askss, wait for completion, reboot, enjoy.
1181 [16:18:53] <Kurozen> Well I think I did once only to make it
boot, super brief, 3-4 years ago, testing a multi-boot USB at the
time.
1182 [16:19:05] <shtrb> grab the disk , burn it , insert it into
your DVD drive , reboot , enter UEFI , enable boot from DVD , and
follow the on screen instrutions
1183 [16:19:40] * ratrace hasn't seen a DVD drive in many many many
years. Can't even remember how they look.
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1185 [16:19:50] <shtrb> Kurozen, for a usb , it's enough to
just dd the image (netinstall) onto the key , as the images are
already hybrid mode , nothing special there
1186 [16:19:52] <n4dir> they look like CD drives
1187 [16:20:22] <Kurozen> Allright, I think I get it now, the way
debian comes it seems it has 2 major ways of doing things, netinst
like you mentioned and DVD1 and I'll try to use defaults or
"dev stuff" and create 2 versions of the guide then, that
should cover a lot of users.
1188 [16:20:31] <shtrb> ratrace, 5 1/4" :P
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1190 [16:21:05] <Kurozen> Yeah I do mean a DVD image + USB when i
say "DVD"
1191 [16:21:05] <n4dir> netinst and DVD installations only differ
in the way they offer the packages to be installed. The installer is
the same
1192 [16:21:45] <Kurozen> n4dir: Yeah that's the extra bit,
I'll keep that in mind and if it's too similar I'll
avoid making 2 versions then.
1193 [16:22:13] <n4dir> and as far i remember tasksel during
installation doesn't have dev stuff (ssh, cups, whatnot, but no
development tools. )
1194 [16:22:13] <wrksx> I thought you were not documenting the
install process
1195 [16:22:26] <Kurozen> Okay okay, thanks for now everyone :) So
we did manage to get to the bottom.
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1198 [16:22:52] <n4dir> there are dozens of installation guides
out there, with and without pictures. Usually knowing the enter key
is sufficient though
1199 [16:22:52] <Kurozen> wrksx: You are correct, I am not. Only
the "Compile XYZ PRoject, do this do that, install
dependencies, etc"
1200 [16:23:47] <Kurozen> It never had anything to do about debian
setup it self. I only had to talk about that to figure it out for
myself.
1201 [16:23:53] <wrksx> Kurozen: okay, I don't want to drag
the conversation further if u don't want to, but I didn't
get what are going to be the 2 versions of the documentation
1202 [16:24:38] <Kurozen> wrksx: Oh, one for netinst and one for
DVD1 ... if they differ in their finall install, but as others say
they kinda don't, I'll see.
1203 [16:24:57] <Kurozen> But not the debian setup, the
project's compilation under that debian installation.
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1205 [16:25:33] <wrksx> Kurozen: okay then. I also think
you'll end up with a single version anyway
1206 [16:25:50] <n4dir> Many assume the netinstall installation
would be more small by some sort of magic. No idea who came up with
that myth, but it is wide spread
1207 [16:26:00] <wrksx> since it's the same system...
1208 [16:26:11] <Kurozen> Yeah, it looks like it, it's
better, less work anyway.
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1210 [16:26:25] <hop> no, it doesn't look like it, it _is_
1211 [16:27:17] <Kurozen> Okay, got it. I did read many pages, I
did see some words mentioning "minimal"
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1213 [16:27:22] <wrksx> Kurozen: are you trying to not list
dependencies that might be already installed on a
"standard" debian system
1214 [16:27:34] <wrksx> whatever "standard" means in
that context
1215 [16:27:45] <wrksx> ?
1216 [16:28:09] <greycat> "Standard" does not include
any dev tools, so you'll need to list build-essential and then
all of *-dev packages. That's all. It's not hard.
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1220 [16:30:17] <Kurozen> wrksx: Exactly, I may perhaps be doing
it the wrong way trying to only state which ones aren't
included, I guess I should just state everything that is needed
irrespective of being already installed/boundled
1221 [16:30:26] <hop> the usual problem with such install guides
is not the list of dependencies, but the integration into how things
are handled in a debian system
1222 [16:30:36] <greycat> 10:16 greycat> Kurozen: e.g.
"for Debian, before compiling, run apt install build-essential
libncurses5-dev"
1223 [16:31:01] <greycat> figure out what *-dev packages are
required, add build-essential
1224 [16:32:38] <Kurozen> Things may still differ from Ubuntu and
others, I heard Ubuntu does some "splitting", so this
isn't the only reason I'm doing this, there could be other
issues, just to clear that up, it shouldn't be for nothing,
even if there is not much difference, it is worth it, to make sure
and check there is nothing different!
1225 [16:33:20] <hop> after that, any software that can't
cope with `./configure --prefix=/usr/local/stow/$PACKAGE; make; make
install` is broken, anyway ;)
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1227 [16:33:27] <Kurozen> Because right now, the Wiki states
"Debian Based (debian, ubuntu, etc") all in one
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1230 [16:34:12] <Kurozen> I doubt this is still true, that it
applies to these distros exactly the same.
1231 [16:34:29] <n4dir> i for one wouldn't assume that Ubuntu
has different *dev packages required than debian.
1232 [16:34:34] <ratrace> the "debian based" concept is
very much misunderstood and a lot of people think it's all just
one and the same system
1233 [16:34:58] <ratrace> while all it really means is "we
took some .debs from Debian and ran!"
1234 [16:35:02] <hop> what software are we even talking about,
have you mentioned?
1235 [16:35:08] <n4dir> but then: i don't even read Readmes.
I just wait which missing stuff i run in and then go for it
1236 [16:35:09] <wrksx> maybe you can get get away with a few
notes for specific distros
1237 [16:36:02] <Kurozen> Hmmm so I had an idea, which brushed my
mind earlier but I forgot, in order to figure out what would be
absulute all packages needed to compile, I would intentionally need
to create the most minimal stripped down install possible, no?
1238 [16:36:25] <Kurozen> Or is there some utility/script to
monitor what the compilation requires ?
1239 [16:36:36] <n4dir> as greycat has stated above a default
installation has no dev stuff whatsoever
1240 [16:36:51] <ratrace> it's a good approach and starting
with a debootstrap'd container somewhere sounds like ideal
solution
1241 [16:37:05] <Kurozen> Or .. manually inspect CMakeLists.txt,
well, would probably not work for all distros, and time consuming,
right?
1242 [16:37:13] <hop> nobody who runs a stripped down system needs
such a detailed installation guide
1243 [16:37:20] <n4dir> i always forget the name of the debian
package which gives you exactly that bootstrap.
1244 [16:37:25] <n4dir> for building packagaes
1245 [16:37:39] <greycat> I mentioned it a few times already.
build-essential
1246 [16:37:50] <Kurozen> n4dir: Sure, but the project does
require some packages without -dev suffix so it's not all about
-dev packages.
1247 [16:37:51] <n4dir> i meant for the bootstrap, greycat
1248 [16:38:01] <ratrace> debootstrap ?
1249 [16:38:03] <n4dir> build-essential should be clear by now, i
hope ...
1250 [16:38:25] <n4dir> ratrace: no, it is only there to build
packages. Let me ask the web ... i hoped someone would know
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1252 [16:38:30] <greycat> if you're talking about schroot and
stuff, I do not know those
1253 [16:39:00] <Kurozen> Allright so I guess I wouldn't need
to list any dependencies part of build-essential which any new
developer would know about and have installed.
1254 [16:39:20] <hop> Kurozen: don't guess, listen
1255 [16:40:17] <n4dir> pbuilder
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1257 [16:40:48] <n4dir>
replaced-url
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1259 [16:42:08] <Kurozen> Allright, I'll check everything,
I'll take a break and when I'm in the process I'll
visit back if necessary, thanks.
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1308 [17:18:15] <PipeItToDevNull> ulimit is messing with deluge on
my machine, no fixes I put in place have worked. Can I disable
ulimit?
1309 [17:18:29] <greycat> you can run it, yes
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1311 [17:19:07] <greycat> if you run "deluge" from an
interactive shell, you can run ulimit in that shell first, then run
deluge
1312 [17:19:19] <greycat> if you run "deluge" from a
shell script, you can run ulimit first in that shell script, before
running deluge
1313 [17:19:36] <greycat> if you run "deluge" from a
systemd unit, then you don't use the ulimit shell command, but
rather the systemd equivalents
1314 [17:19:44] <PipeItToDevNull> It is running as a systemd
service `deluged -d` basically
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1316 [17:19:58] <greycat> so put the appropriate resource limit
declarations in the unit
1317 [17:19:59] <PipeItToDevNull> I will check out how to do it
for systemd
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1319 [17:20:09] <PipeItToDevNull> Would that go in the .service
file?
1320 [17:20:21] <greycat> did you write the service file? if so,
yes.
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1322 [17:20:37] <greycat> is it one supplied by Debian or a
vendor? if so, no, you use an override snippet
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1324 [17:21:14] <ratrace> actually you can copy the whole .service
into /etc/systemd/system/ and customize it. override snippets
don't always work for all use cases
1325 [17:21:18] <ratrace> meanwhile:
replaced-url
1326 [17:21:27] <greycat> you can, but it's not the best way
1327 [17:21:37] <ratrace> it's the best way to get 100%
control over the unit
1328 [17:22:13] <ratrace> otherwise you have to keep in mind what
is overrideable and what is compoundable and clear it out first,
blah blah blah, and then if the vendor supplied unit changes in
unexpected ways, everything breaks
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1331 [17:22:45] <ratrace> I mean.... it's fully supported way
to manage the unit, having a whole copy in /etc/systemd/system/ .
snippets are just different use case
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1334 [17:24:06] <jelly> ratrace: that has the same problem as
using single config files instead of .d/ snippets, you don't
get new versions when distro fixes something in the default file
1335 [17:24:21] <ratrace> note that unlike the shell init scripts
of the old days, which were not indented for the sysadmin to mess
with them, systemd units are declarative config files which ARE
intended to be messed with, if vendor defaults are insufficient.
meaning, if you provide the whole unit yourself, instead of
overriding vendor's, it's very much supported
1336 [17:24:50] <jelly> supported by you
1337 [17:24:54] <ratrace> jelly: more or less, I agree. and
that's not wrong or bad per se. may or may not be what you
want.
1338 [17:25:12] <ratrace> jelly: supported by systemd with its
specific ordering of directories it looks up for config
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1340 [17:25:30] <jelly> sam as if you had added ulimit -n 4096
into the init script.
1341 [17:25:47] <ratrace> as an example, instead of managing
187622348927329 dovecot/conf.d stupidities, I manage a single
dovecot.conf, automated with ansible and controlled with group and
hostvars
1342 [17:26:04] <jelly> ratrace: well it would be really silly if
/etc did NOT override builtin defaults
1343 [17:26:06] <ratrace> it is not wrong, or bad. just a paradigm
and pattern which is very much acceptable.
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1345 [17:26:41] <PipeItToDevNull> I made it 'infinity'
so lets see what do
1346 [17:27:07] <jelly> again, it's acceptable for your use
case, where you don't care about what distro defaults are
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1348 [17:27:28] <ratrace> distro defaults are usually wrong and
bad
1349 [17:27:30] <jelly> I try to rely on the distro more and avoid
replacing whole configs
1350 [17:27:58] <ratrace> QED many of the systemd service units
are half-assed because of debian's policy to support multiple
inits, thus it can't by default take advantage of the whole
featureset.
1351 [17:28:14] <ratrace> also... nginx systemd unit using
start-stop-daemon? Imma outta words! mind == blown.
1352 [17:28:29] <jelly> so, a feature for some, and a bug for
others
1353 [17:28:33] <ratrace> indeed.
1354 [17:29:14] <jelly> (ok, that nginx thing sounds really silly)
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1356 [17:29:41] <ratrace> so bottom line, systemd drop-in
overrides is a good idea, keeping in mind overrideables vs
compoundables; but it is NOT bad idea to use whole unit in /etc/
1357 [17:30:14] <jelly> by that logic, it's not a bad idea to
manage your own init script
1358 [17:30:31] <jelly> it has serious consequences.
1359 [17:30:37] <ratrace> systemd units ARE config files. init
scripts are programs
1360 [17:30:46] <jelly> and also config files.
1361 [17:30:54] <ratrace> they're literal, shell executable
turing complete programs.
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1363 [17:31:40] <ratrace> jelly: well not really, but they DO
source from /etc/default/ so kinda. I do remember having FUN times
having to overwrite the uwsgi shell scripts because they were borked
to hell and back back on wheezy and methinks even jessie
1364 [17:32:34] <ratrace> somuchso that I ran supervisord instead
of using distro defaults, to keep some level of sanity . then I
started using it for more than just uwsgi.... and then systemd
happened, and I was thrilled. delighted. so much time saved, so much
power gained.
1365 [17:33:23] <jelly> a lot more verbose to config than
daemontools, but does the job well
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1370 [17:35:26] <jelly> I wouldn't advice replacing the whole
file just to put a LimitNOFILE= or whatever
1371 [17:35:35] <greycat> That.
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1406 [18:04:57] <ratrace> yeah, but saying "no" to
"would that go in the .service file" is wrong advice.
1407 [18:05:17] <ratrace> %s/wrong advice/factually incorrect/
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1409 [18:05:36] <greycat> "Don't edit
/lib/systemd/system/deluge.service" isn't wrong advice.
1410 [18:05:43] *** Joins: grobi (~rtng@replaced-ip )
1411 [18:06:08] <greycat> 11:20 PipeItToDevNull> Would that go
in the .service file?
1412 [18:06:08] <greycat> 11:20 greycat> did you write the
service file? if so, yes.
1413 [18:06:14] <greycat> 11:20 greycat> is it one supplied by
Debian or a vendor? if so, no, you use an override snippet
1414 [18:07:10] <ratrace> go ahead and *plonk* me, I missed that
context :)
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1425 [18:13:20] <Robby> override snippet? how exactly does this
work? I know you can take the Debian-supplied .service file, copy it
over to somewhere in /etc and make your custom changes to it and
reload systemd
1426 [18:14:03] <Robby> but won't that custom .service file
being there override the Debian-supplied one completely? even if you
wanted to do only a one-line change?
1427 [18:14:17] *** Joins: fnaticrisk (~fnaticris@replaced-ip )
1428 [18:14:21] <imMute> Robby: given
//lib/systemd/system/foo.service you can make a file called
/etc/systemd/system/foo.service.d/Robby.conf and the two will get
merged together
1429 [18:14:29] <Robby> ah
1430 [18:14:35] <Robby> thats cool
1431 [18:14:40] <Robby> good to know, thank you :)
1432 [18:15:16] <imMute> Robby:
replaced-url
1433 [18:15:20] <ratrace> Robby: systemctl edit foo.service will
precreate those files for you
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1435 [18:15:26] <ratrace> (and open in the $EDITOR)
1436 [18:15:34] <imMute> ratrace++ # handy to know
1437 [18:15:51] <Robby> thank you imMute and ratrace
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1457 [18:30:42] <jelly> Robby: to make things more interesting,
some config lines in systemd units override previous values, some
append. Using the same Key=value syntax.
1458 [18:31:17] *** Joins: Prints (~333@replaced-ip )
1459 [18:31:18] <Robby> ugh
1460 [18:31:51] <Robby> so theres some 'gotchas' too, to
it
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1462 [18:32:23] <jelly> you want to make a custom command line for
your service? First need to "wipe" it by setting to empty,
which is another special syntax
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1465 [18:33:54] <jelly> so, say, telling snmpd to start with -LS6d
instead of -Lsd ...
replaced-url
1466 [18:34:04] *** Quits: \\Mr_C\\ (~mrc@replaced-ip ) (Quit: (Read error: Connection reset by beer))
1467 [18:34:24] <jelly> is not really much easier or nicer than
editing /etc/default/snmpd was, before
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1470 [18:34:55] <Robby> I see
1471 [18:35:03] <Robby> yea that makes sense then
1472 [18:36:16] <ratrace> that applies only if you do override
snippets. a whole .service unit under /etc/systemd/system/ is a
single whole
1473 [18:36:29] <ratrace> (btw, those are overrideables vs
compoundables I spoke of earlier)
1474 [18:40:13] <jelly> and you can't tell which are which!
1475 [18:40:54] <jelly> unless you recurse into man pages, or ask
on #systemd like I did after spending half an hour
1476 [18:41:41] <jelly> because... same syntax for assigning as
for appending to existing value.
1477 [18:41:46] <greycat> ExecStart= is a trap, yeah. But
it's the only one I know of that works that way.
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1479 [18:42:13] <jelly> it bloody well should not be = but .= or
+=
1480 [18:42:29] <Robby> that would make things more obvious, yes
1481 [18:42:44] <jelly> and it should error out if someone does =.
Of course that will never be changed.
1482 [18:43:28] <jelly> so in 10 years, systemd will have about
the same amount of idiosyncrazies as your init scripts of old
1483 [18:43:35] *** Quits: huwjr (~huwjr@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1484 [18:43:48] <jelly> and someone will make a new, learn, more
consistent thing
1485 [18:43:57] <jelly> lean*
1486 [18:44:40] <n4dir> again a neverending flamewar? uff
1487 [18:44:53] <jelly> it's not a flamewar if everyone
agrees
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1489 [18:45:42] <n4dir> didn't work well last time, iirc
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1491 [18:46:10] <ratrace> I agree tho, systemd has a lot of
shortcomings, but it's the best processmanager slash init that
we have so far
1492 [18:46:12] <greycat> "everyone agrees" is one of
those oxymoron phrases
1493 [18:46:37] <n4dir> ratrace: i sure can't compare the 5
or 6 i know of
1494 [18:47:03] *** Joins: milkt (~debian@replaced-ip )
1495 [18:49:41] <jelly> ratrace: I'm just amazed at the
shortsightedness of "everything will be easy and simple"
from upstream. It's still the best thing we have right now, and
actually uses linux features from this decade.
1496 [18:52:20] <ratrace> jelly: and I'm amazed they
haven't painted themselves in the corner with all the service
unit dependency an ordering keywords so nobody went "Uh-uh, we
didn't think this through, guys!"...... yet.......
YET......
1497 [18:52:39] *** Quits: powerhouse_ (~powerhous@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1498 [18:52:44] <jelly> but we didn't need a new one, runit
could have been extended just a bit and separate tiny tools used for
socket activation, tcp mgt, limits, cgroups
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1504 [18:55:59] <roycroft> hello, folks
1505 [18:56:15] <roycroft> i am thinking about getting a new
laptop and running debian on it
1506 [18:56:25] <roycroft> 2020 may finally be the year of the
linux laptop :)
1507 [18:56:56] <roycroft> i have some mac os apps that i'd
like to run, and some windows apps that i need to run on the machine
1508 [18:57:06] <roycroft> i'd prefer not to invest in vmware
workstation
1509 [18:57:06] *** Joins: Steeve (~steve@replaced-ip )
1510 [18:57:19] <jelly> you can't run OSX apps natively, or
without a VM
1511 [18:57:22] <roycroft> does virtualbox or some other
freely-avalable hypervisor work decently?
1512 [18:57:50] <jelly> (and running a hackintosh in a VM may or
may not be liked by the vendor)
1513 [18:57:55] <roycroft> i've been using vmware fusion on
my macs for many years, and that's worked out brilliantly
1514 [18:58:14] <roycroft> mac os apps are not necessary
1515 [18:58:21] <roycroft> it would be nice, but by no means
essential
1516 [18:58:27] <jelly> windows will run in KVM
1517 [18:58:29] <roycroft> the windows apps are essential to run,
though
1518 [18:58:42] <jelly> that's the native virtualization on
linux
1519 [18:58:53] <roycroft> i use that on my proxmox machines
1520 [18:58:57] <roycroft> i'm familiar with kvm
1521 [18:59:20] <jelly> several frontends exist, I don't know
which are nice
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1523 [18:59:37] <roycroft> but on the pve machines the guest os
can only run in a virtual console
1524 [18:59:53] <roycroft> and there's no direct interaction
between the guest and the host
1525 [19:00:38] <roycroft> with vmware fusion i can run guests in
full screen mode at the native resolution
1526 [19:00:59] <roycroft> and i can also share resources with the
host (mac os) - network, shared folders
1527 [19:01:18] <roycroft> i'm sure i can do all of that with
vmware workstation
1528 [19:01:39] <roycroft> but it sounds like that's
something you don't do, and so can't answer definitively
1529 [19:02:01] <jelly> vmware player is free to use; I have no
idea how it's crippled, but try a KVM gui fronted first
1530 [19:02:14] <roycroft> i can do some more research - i was
just being lazy and wondering if someone here has such an
environment already and can comment on it :)
1531 [19:02:40] <roycroft> i do have an old netbook with linux
mint on it currently
1532 [19:03:03] <roycroft> it's old and slow and certainly
not capable of running reasonably with a hypervisor
1533 [19:03:10] <roycroft> but it may be good enough for a proof
of conceptr
1534 [19:03:21] <roycroft> and i can scrub mint and install stock
debian on it
1535 [19:03:37] <roycroft> it was just being used as an octoprint
server until i got a rpi for that
1536 [19:03:42] * jelly fires up virt-manager to find Fedora 17 and
some... Debian kfreebsd, but apparently his current Intel CPU is not
compatible with previous Intel CPU that ran these VMs
1537 [19:04:13] <ratrace> roycroft: proxmox's idea of
virtualization is not really the poster child of what qemu-kvm can
do on linux
1538 [19:04:22] *** Joins: aurelain__ (~aurelain@replaced-ip )
1539 [19:04:37] <roycroft> i know that, ratrace
1540 [19:04:41] <gpunk> Hi, I have a package that wont install
because of a non absolute path name of a conffile ... how can I tell
apt/dpkg to "remove" it from the "queue" ?
1541 [19:04:58] <roycroft> i'm only reporting my limited
experience with virtualization on linux
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1543 [19:05:24] <roycroft> what pve does is almost completely
unrelated to what i need to do with this laptop
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1546 [19:06:47] <jelly> gpunk: dpkg --remove packagename
1547 [19:07:27] <jelly> gpunk: won't affect apt's state
though. Can you show actual output and the full command line?
1548 [19:07:30] <jelly> !paste
1549 [19:07:30] <dpkg> Do not paste more than 2 lines to this
channel. Instead, use for text:
replaced-url
1550 [19:07:31] *** Joins: Prints (~333@replaced-ip )
1551 [19:07:36] <jelly> !basic apt troubleshooting
1552 [19:07:36] <dpkg> [Basic Apt* Troubleshooting]. To diagnose
your problem, we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete
output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used)
2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL
packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache
policy". Use
replaced-url
1553 [19:08:02] *** Quits: bertbob (~bertbob@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1554 [19:08:06] *** Quits: nksegos (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1555 [19:08:32] <gpunk> dpkg: error processing archive
/var/cache/apt/archives/kolab-freebusy_1.1.2-0~kolab3_all.deb
(--unpack): conffile name 'etc/kolab-freebusy/config.ini'
is not an absolute pathname , thank you jelly
1556 [19:08:32] <dpkg> gpunk: That isn't an error, post the
whole output to a pastebin (/msg dpkg pastebin).
1557 [19:09:15] <ratrace> and the bot strikes again.
1558 [19:10:09] <ratrace> does it really bother nobody else that
it responds to anything other than "!" . is starting a
sentence with "dpkg" REALLY that uncommon in a
debian-specific support channel, so the bot is made to trigger on
that too?
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1571 [19:18:01] <hop> dpkg is my favourite tool to make ratrace
mad
1572 [19:18:02] <dpkg> hop: parse error: dunno what the heck
you're talking about
1573 [19:18:16] <hop> works fine, from what i can see
1574 [19:18:27] <hop> even has the sarcasm down pat
1575 [19:18:37] *** Joins: EagleTG (~eagletg@replaced-ip )
1576 [19:19:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1208
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1581 [19:21:45] <ratrace> one day that'll backfire and then
I'll !pal
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1584 [19:23:07] <ratrace> dpkg: right?
1585 [19:23:07] <dpkg> right, (adj): 1) The opposite of left. 2)
What cafuego says.
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1592 [19:33:20] <jelly> dpkg, botsnack
1593 [19:33:21] <dpkg> thanks, jelly
1594 [19:33:51] *** Joins: sh9 (~sh9@replaced-ip )
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1596 [19:35:20] <jelly> gpunk: that's not the whole output
and I don't see the full command line, so I have to take a
guess. run "dpkg --configure -a" "apt-get -f
install" to let dpkg and apt clean up what they can, then apt
remove that particular package name
1597 [19:35:42] *** Quits: Jerrynicki (~niklas@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1598 [19:36:01] <gpunk> ok, I'll see thanks again
1599 [19:36:12] *** Quits: Eduard_Munteanu (~Eduard_Mu@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1600 [19:36:25] <jelly> gpunk: if you wan't to install it,
repack the .deb somewhere and edit DEBIAN/conffiles to make the
path(s) absolute
1601 [19:36:29] <jelly> want*
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1605 [19:37:48] <chakpapa> I just shifted a production workstation
from CentOS to Debian Stable to see how feasible it is. I have just
one question. Is it recommended to keep this repository active?
replaced-url
1606 [19:37:56] <chakpapa> I want maximum stability
1607 [19:38:17] <chakpapa> Or is it better to turn it off, and
stick to point to point releases with "Security Updates"?
1608 [19:38:20] <jelly> gpunk: roughly, inside fakeroot or as root
(but do it inside fakeroot!): dpkg --extract
/var/cache/apt/archives/kolab-freebusy_1.1.2-0~kolab3_all.deb
tmpdir; dpkg --control .../kolab...deb tmpdir/DEBIAN; edit
tmpdir/DEBIAN/conffiles; dpkg-deb -b tmpdir .
1609 [19:38:53] <jelly> !buster sources.list
1610 [19:38:53] <dpkg> A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for
"Buster" has the lines: "deb
replaced-url
1611 [19:39:11] <jelly> chakpapa: ^ keep all of those.
1612 [19:39:36] <Brigo> chakpapa, they are for importan bug
correction package updates. Suit yourself
1613 [19:39:38] <chakpapa> jelly, alright thanks. I just wanted to
know the defaults people use when they use "Stable". I
performed an "Expert Install" so I didn't know the
defaults.
1614 [19:40:02] <chakpapa> Brigo, got it. I will keep that one
then. Backports I don't need so I am keeping it off
1615 [19:40:39] *** Joins: derpadmin (~derpadmin@replaced-ip )
1616 [19:40:42] <jelly> chakpapa: even if you disable
buster-updates, you're going to get most in not all of those on
the next point release anyway
1617 [19:40:53] <Brigo> it is sensible if you want stability
1618 [19:41:03] *** Joins: scakko (~scakko@replaced-ip )
1619 [19:41:04] <chakpapa> Got it
1620 [19:41:35] <jelly> it's usually quite fine to keep those
enabled on a workstation
1621 [19:42:22] <chakpapa> For how long does a Debian Stable
release is supported? I mean full cycle. Will it keep receiving at
least "Security" updates once it is off of Maintenance by
the Debian Stable team? I am looking for 5 years at least
1622 [19:43:53] *** Joins: HerbY_NL2 (~HerbY_NL2@replaced-ip )
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1624 [19:43:57] <n4dir> from stable it goes to old-stable, so that
are at minimum 4 years. But who knows
1625 [19:44:20] <roycroft> you want a lts release
1626 [19:44:32] <roycroft> debian releases are supported for five
years
1627 [19:44:41] <roycroft>
replaced-url
1628 [19:44:44] <chakpapa> Yes as LTS and unmoving (with critical
security updates) as posible
1629 [19:44:53] <chakpapa> Thanks
1630 [19:44:54] <jelly> chakpapa: one year after release+1 is out
is when Debian Security Team stops the support. That's about 3
years or so. Right now, that's when LTS Team takes over, with a
reduced set of packages and architectures, and they keep things
running until the 5 year point.
1631 [19:44:55] <roycroft> everyone who wants to know knows
1632 [19:45:53] <jelly> roycroft: LTS Team is an effort separate
from Debian Security support, and exists only because of sponsors.
1633 [19:45:58] <ratrace> "critical" is a bit open to
interpretation, but yes, in general, they do
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1635 [19:46:28] <jelly> there is no "lts release" in
Debian
1636 [19:46:28] <roycroft> correct
1637 [19:46:32] <greycat> roycroft: "you want a lts
release" doesn't mean anything. Every Debian release
enters an LTS phase after a few years.
1638 [19:46:43] <roycroft> yes, that was worded poorly
1639 [19:47:04] <jelly> unlike Ubuntu, which carefully labels
specific releases as LTS
1640 [19:47:53] <ratrace> some would argue that Ubuntu LTS is
"the" ubuntu release, and the rest are beta, dev, testing,
in-between releases.
1641 [19:47:55] <jelly> chakpapa: sponsoring LTS is recommended if
you want it to keep existing
1642 [19:48:02] <ratrace> (some, among the some, are the devs
themselves)
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1652 [19:53:05] <Akuw> i am looking for a video editing software,
i installed Lightworks and OPenshot, but i wanna try another options
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1657 [19:55:45] <jmcnaught> Akuw: kdenlive, pitivi, kino, blender
also has video editing I think.
1658 [19:56:03] <Akuw> thanks
1659 [19:56:34] <ratrace> cinelerra!
1660 [19:57:04] <ratrace> and OBS? or is that only for
vid/pod/casting?
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1666 [19:58:34] <ahylight> Hello
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1668 [19:58:46] <ahylight> Does anyone have experience with
Samba's smb.conf?
1669 [19:59:26] <sney> !anyone
1670 [19:59:27] <dpkg> Please do not ask if anyone can help you,
knows 'something' or uses 'some_program'.
Instead, ask your real question. (If the real question _was_
"does anyone use 'some_program'?" ask me about
<popcon> instead.) See <ask> <ask to ask>
<polls> <search> <sicco> <smart questions>.
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1672 [19:59:59] <ahylight> I have shared a folder with Samba, but
when I connect to it, it asks a user/password login
1673 [20:00:13] <ahylight> Here is the smb.conf:
replaced-url
1674 [20:00:32] <ahylight> How to do a share without any password,
and no login requirement?
1675 [20:00:33] <greycat> gnerally you need to set up your Samba
passwd database before trying to use it from clients
1676 [20:00:57] <ahylight> yes I did: sudo smbpasswd -a user
1677 [20:01:00] <greycat> oh, you want *guests*? I don't
know; look for "guest" in the docs or ask #samba or wait
for someone who knows Samba guest stuff
1678 [20:01:16] <ahylight> ohh yes guests
1679 [20:01:31] <ahylight> greycat, i thought "public"
would do it, but you're right, it might be named
"guests"
1680 [20:01:37] <sney> samba guest access is funky. it is better
to just use a user/password. make the password 1234 or whatever
1681 [20:01:59] <ahylight> sney, i want my local TV etc. to access
it, and there is no login system
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1683 [20:02:06] <ahylight> so I need a plain open Samba share
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1686 [20:02:30] <sney> oof, from an embedded device even. best to
ask in #samba in that case
1687 [20:02:31] <greycat> "my local TV etc" is sketchy
as hell
1688 [20:02:58] <greycat> they seem to imply that *lots* of
devices all work *identically* which is ... sketchy as hell
1689 [20:03:27] <ahylight> haha, yes, i'm curious if
it'll work :)
1690 [20:03:41] <greycat> so you're just making shit up
1691 [20:03:48] <gpunk> Thank you jelly, the conffile in DEBIAN
had a poopoo in it :p
1692 [20:04:10] <n4dir> Akuw: most are mentioned already, but
anyway
replaced-url
1693 [20:04:51] <greycat> Wow. German is freaky.
1694 [20:04:56] <n4dir> haha. Indeed.
1695 [20:05:33] <n4dir> Akuw: they talked quite a bit about
Davinci Resolve (proprietary) in #ardour the other day. But as i am
not in such i didn't listen. They considered it good, it seems
1696 [20:05:38] <greycat> Had to ask google to translate that for
me, because I could not figure out what "video bear
baiting" would actually be... (the translation from google is
"video editing")
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1698 [20:06:20] <n4dir> greycat: i wouldn't link to a german
site, but the german ubuntu wiki has nice lists of software for
everything (and the package names suffice, i hope)
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1700 [20:06:34] <jelly> ahylight: your TV is more likely to read
files from a DLNA server than from samba
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1702 [20:06:53] <ahylight> jelly I think both, I'll try
1703 [20:07:12] <jelly> ahylight: mediatomb or minidlna are
examples of dlna file servers
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1762 [21:02:05] <oft_gegong> so does Debian have its own source
code versions that house what gets updated with the package
upgrades? Do we do that with bugzilla or something?
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1767 [21:03:11] <imMute> oft_gegong: yes, Debian keeps copies of
the source code for every package.
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1769 [21:03:33] <imMute> they're in "source
packages" which you can download from the APT repos
1770 [21:03:56] <oft_gegong> but it's weird though. Only
certain patches are allowed in.
1771 [21:04:04] <oft_gegong> at least for stable
1772 [21:04:17] <imMute> right, Debian wants to keep the stable
releases, well, stable.
1773 [21:04:51] <oft_gegong> but how do we know what bugs are
allowed fixable in stable?
1774 [21:05:11] <oft_gegong> critical bugs and security updates?
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1777 [21:06:07] <imMute> oft_gegong: I'm not sure if/where
it's defined. security updates for sure. not sure about
functionality bugs though.
1778 [21:06:39] <imMute> typically those don't even get into
stable - if a package has critical feature bugs, it's dropped
from the project before the first release of a given stable version.
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1781 [21:07:38] <jmcnaught>
replaced-url
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5971 [23:29:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1198
5972 [23:29:57] <roycroft> hello, folks
5973 [23:30:21] <roycroft> does anyone here mirror the debian
distribution and point aptitude to their local mirror?
5974 [23:30:44] <roycroft> i'm getting errors that i'm
not sure how to handle
5975 [23:31:07] *** Joins: ctrlbreak (~ctrlbreak@replaced-ip )
5976 [23:31:10] *** Joins: d33pfl0wrz (~d33pfl0wr@replaced-ip )
5977 [23:31:13] *** Quits: d33pfl0wrz (~d33pfl0wr@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
5978 [23:31:27] <roycroft> actually, let me test something really
quick before i go any further
5979 [23:32:41] <roycroft> sorry - it's an apache thing
5980 [23:32:44] <roycroft> i'll sort it out
5981 [23:32:55] <roycroft> i thought at first it was a problem
with the way i mirrored the site
5982 [23:33:57] *** Quits: dionysus69 (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
5983 [23:34:18] *** Joins: dionysus69 (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip )
5984 [23:34:22] *** Joins: leoni (~leoni@replaced-ip )
5985 [23:35:14] <imMute> yes, I've mirrored the apt repos
before.
5986 [23:35:22] <imMute> you should be using the rsync script they
provide.
5987 [23:35:50] <imMute>
replaced-url
5988 [23:35:54] <roycroft> it's working now
5989 [23:36:00] <imMute> you should use that script anyway.
5990 [23:36:06] <roycroft> i was using the old sytax in my apache
config
5991 [23:36:18] <roycroft> i'm using the debmirror utility
5992 [23:36:48] *** Quits: Marqeaux (~Marqeaux@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Stop spreading the news... I just left! Bye!)
5993 [23:36:52] <roycroft> i have a number of hosts that are not
connected to the internet
5994 [23:36:58] <roycroft> so i though having a local mirror would
help
5995 [23:37:27] <roycroft> plus, that will save my having to
hammer the official mirrors dozens of times for every update, when i
can get it all once and hammer my local mirror dozens of times
instead
5996 [23:38:18] <roycroft> i am reading the how to mirror document
now, btw
5997 [23:38:30] <Azrael_-> hi
5998 [23:39:28] <imMute> roycroft: ultimately it's probably
teh same as debmirror - setup a config file and then run a command
periodically. the script encapsulates the specific way you're
supposed to use rsync
5999 [23:39:57] *** Joins: Randolf (~randolf@replaced-ip )
6000 [23:40:20] <roycroft> it took about a day to get the subset
of the distrubition that i need
6001 [23:40:30] <roycroft> i'll run debmirror from cron
4x/day
6002 [23:40:43] <imMute> yeah, the first mirror takes a looong
time. I think I had ours setup for 4x a day too.
6003 [23:41:01] <roycroft> this will help with the machines that
are not on the internet a lot
6004 [23:41:16] <roycroft> currently i have to expose them to the
net in order to do updates
6005 [23:41:21] <roycroft> and as a result, i don't do
updates often
6006 [23:41:25] <Randolf> I can't find mysql-server or
mysql-client in the apt repository, which is needed by wordpress.
Was it removed, or do I have a b0rked apt database?
6007 [23:41:33] <roycroft> now i can do it much more frequently
6008 [23:41:39] <roycroft> you want mariadb, randolf
6009 [23:41:52] <Randolf> @roycroft: Oh, is that what wordpress
uses now?
6010 [23:42:04] <Randolf> I wish they moved to PostgreSQL instead.
:(
6011 [23:42:05] <roycroft> for quite some time
6012 [23:42:05] <Randolf> Thanks.
6013 [23:42:10] <roycroft> it's compatible with mysql
6014 [23:42:17] <roycroft> but it performs much better
6015 [23:42:26] <roycroft> i've been using mariad for our
wordpress servers for years
6016 [23:42:30] <roycroft> mariadb
6017 [23:42:47] <Randolf> Oh, okay.
6018 [23:43:04] <roycroft> up until buster, i think, if you
installed mysql using aptitude it would install mariadb instead
6019 [23:43:22] <Randolf> Actually, I'm glad to be moving
away from MySQL anyway. It's got a lot of problems.
6020 [23:43:23] *** Quits: mbrad (~mbrad@replaced-ip ) (Quit: leaving)
6021 [23:43:40] <imMute> Randolf: mariaDB is a fork of MySQL from
when MySQL started getting corporatized
6022 [23:43:48] <roycroft> yes
6023 [23:44:00] <roycroft> when you install mariadb the binaries
will call themselves mysql
6024 [23:44:05] <Randolf> imMute: Oh, I see. Yeah, Oracle kind of
screwed up Java as well.
6025 [23:44:11] <roycroft> so you'll still use a
"mysql" client
6026 [23:44:16] <roycroft> which will be mariadb
6027 [23:44:22] *** Quits: Trieste (~T@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
6028 [23:44:27] <Randolf> roycroft: Ha! Intentionally replacing
MySQL? I love it!
6029 [23:44:37] *** Joins: lnxslck (~lnxslck@replaced-ip )
6030 [23:44:53] * Randolf is using Debian 10.6.
6031 [23:44:57] <roycroft> there is one incompatibility between
mysql and mariadb that catches a lot of people
6032 [23:45:16] <Randolf> The name in apt? ;)
6033 [23:45:18] <roycroft> if you are going to add a grant to a
new user without a password you need to do it in two steps with
mariadb
6034 [23:45:26] <roycroft> with mysql you could do this:
6035 [23:45:37] <Azrael_-> i'm running a nas-server with 8gb
ram and 7gb is already used. i think snapd is the service hogging up
the ram but "snap list" only shows "core 16-2.47.1
10185 latest/stable canonical✓ core". how
can i stop snapd?
6036 [23:45:41] <roycroft> grant all on foo.* to
newuser@localhost;
6037 [23:45:46] <roycroft> with mariadb that fails
6038 [23:45:47] *** Quits: brettgilio (~brettgili@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
6039 [23:45:58] <roycroft> you have to create user
newuser@localhost;
6040 [23:46:02] <roycroft> then you can add the grant
6041 [23:46:06] *** Quits: m0u (~m0u@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
6042 [23:46:18] <Randolf> roycroft: Actually, I think that's
better.
6043 [23:46:26] <roycroft> yes, it is
6044 [23:46:33] <Randolf> That seems more secure to me.
6045 [23:46:36] <roycroft> but folks got used to the shortcut
method
6046 [23:47:01] <roycroft> there are a lot of other differences,
but they won't, for the most part, be an issue for the casual
db administrator
6047 [23:47:45] <roycroft> unless you don't like your
database engine running faster and using fewer resources
6048 [23:47:54] <roycroft> if that's the case then
you'll have a major issue with mariadb
6049 [23:48:17] <roycroft> wordpress, btw, has no idea that
you're running mariadb vs. mysql
6050 [23:48:51] *** Quits: ca1ek (~dawid@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
6051 [23:50:46] <Randolf> There's a serious licensing problem
with MySQL now:
replaced-url
6052 [23:50:52] <Randolf> Good to get away from that.
6053 [23:51:45] <roycroft> soracle are trying to be the next sco
6054 [23:51:45] <Randolf> Also, Oracle's sales team told me
many years ago that for commercial use there's a fee of USD$500
per server for MySQL, so I used PostgreSQL for all my projects
instead.
6055 [23:51:50] *** Quits: dionysus69 (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
6056 [23:52:07] <Randolf> ...that was an annual fee.
6057 [23:52:13] *** Joins: dionysus69 (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip )
6058 [23:52:13] <roycroft> if they keep going as they are soon
they'll just be a litigation company
6059 [23:52:20] *** Quits: debsan (~debsan@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
6060 [23:53:01] <Randolf> So Oracle is going to switch industries
from computers to law? Good to know.
6061 [23:53:30] <Randolf> I wonder if Oracle holds a copyright on
that famous picture of Scot McNealy mooning Bill Gates? :D
6062 [23:54:26] <n4dir> Azrael_-: if you do a websearch
"systemd stop snapd" you will get results (which seem to
indicate it is more tricky than with other "services").
6063 [23:55:18] *** Quits: twobitsprite (~isaac.fre@98.122.129.103)
(Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
6064 [23:56:22] <roycroft> when sco went out of business they sold
all their assets except for trademarks and copyrights
6065 [23:56:35] *** Joins: Trieste (~T@replaced-ip )
6066 [23:56:40] <roycroft> and proceeded to operate their company
by suing copyright/trademark violators
6067 [23:56:47] *** Quits: dionysus69 (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
6068 [23:56:47] <Azrael_-> n4dir: ok, thanks. is it also possible
to jsut stop it or to just tell it to free the ram it hogs? i'm
confused why it is using 7 outof 8gb ram and don#t want to
completely disable it now as the reenabling seems to be just as
difficult
6069 [23:56:56] <roycroft> i'm not sure if they're still
even around, but that is all they were doing in the end
6070 [23:57:05] *** Joins: dionysus69 (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip )
6071 [23:57:06] <Randolf> roycroft: I remember that. That was
horrible. Intellectual Property Trolls (IPTs) don't care about
progress.
6072 [23:57:08] <roycroft> they had even purchased novell and
killed that off
6073 [23:57:35] <roycroft> i don't think soracle are there
yet, but that seems to be the direction they're heading
6074 [23:58:16] <roycroft> a big part of soracle's current
business model is to land large government contracts, fail to
produce deliverables, and then sue for non-payment
6075 [23:58:35] <n4dir> Azrael_-: with systemctl stop
<stuffd>; you stop <stuffd> for now, with systemctl
disable you will disable it for following sessions. Likewise you use
"systemctl start" or "systemctl enable".
6076 [23:58:45] *** Quits: mortderire (~mortderir@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
6077 [23:59:10] <n4dir> But if you look at the web-results, it is
much clearer (mainly the tricky part, and also how to investigate
more further). More i can't say.
6078 [23:59:28] <Azrael_-> ok, thanks
6079 [23:59:34] <Randolf> Yeah, Ray Noorda, when he was CEO of
Novell, wanted to compete directly with Microsoft and so he bought
WordPerfect and put together a whole "office productivity"
suite -- his idea was to make it available to all NetWare customers
(one office suite license per network end-user/client license). The
board rejected it, and I heard it was because they were risk-adverse
Mormons (in Utah, of course). In retrospect, I think it would have
been a very good
6080 [23:59:34] <Randolf> thing for the computer industry.
6081 [23:59:47] *** Quits: asymptotically (~asymptoti@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
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