People who Joins , Parts or Quits a chatroom
this is #debian
an IRC -Channel at freenode
(freenode IRC service closed
2021-06-01)
0 [00:00:08] <jhutchins> Um, needless to say, that was meant
for a local channel.
1 [00:00:59] <jhutchins> "Arthur" is Arthur is Arthur
Benson, who argued Brown vs. Topeka Board of Education. I do tech
support for him.
2 [00:01:07] <jhutchins> He's still working, but not much.
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65 [00:49:44] <jammz> anyone know what you're supposed to
do to resolve java dependencies? I got a java application, installed
default-jre, and it gives me dependency errors, like:
pathvisio.jar!/org.apache.commons.discovery_0.2.0.v201004190315.jar
failed to start.
66 [00:49:44] <jammz> org.osgi.framework.BundleException:
Unresolved constraint in bundle org.apache.commons.discovery [12]:
Unable to resolve 12.0: missing requirement [12.0] osgi.ee;
(&(osgi.ee=JavaSE)(version=1.4.0))
67 [00:50:05] <jammz> this is the software I'm trying to
run:
replaced-url
68 [00:50:15] <jammz> (chemical pathway chart creator thing)
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72 [00:52:49] <themill> Their docs say that it only works with
java 8 with is not a good start... that's so old it's not
even in Debian stable.
73 [00:52:56] <jammz> oh, good eye
74 [00:53:07] <jammz> (for bold text)
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78 [00:54:06] <themill> :)
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80 [00:56:03] <themill> From memory, it's possible to
install openjdk-8-jdk from stretch on a buster system, but I
wouldn't necessarily recommend that. A stretch chroot (desktop
type schroot) with its dependencies installed in it might be the
simplest
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96 [01:16:08] <jammz> themill, thanks. I'll look for some
other option to generate these things.. first time using such
software but I figure there are other options available
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98 [01:19:31] <jammz> #debian-next is invite only
99 [01:20:13] <jammz> I'm trying to install Miniconda but
the installers for it are only at 3.7 and 3.8, while my debian
python is 3.9
100 [01:20:36] <sney> !invite only
101 [01:20:36] <dpkg> Many debian channels are on the OFTC
network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you try to join one
and you see "Cannot join (Channel is invite only)." it
means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also
replaced-url
102 [01:20:41] <sney> note right now you are on freenode
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107 [01:29:29] <jammz> oh they said that the other day. thanks
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149 [02:17:52] <phantomcircuit> trying to install the libssl
debug symbols but i cant because the version in debian-debug is
slightly behind the version i have somehow
150 [02:17:55] <phantomcircuit> libssl1.1-dbgsym : Depends:
libssl1.1 (= 1.1.1d-0+deb10u3) but 1.1.1d-0+deb10u4 is to be
installed
151 [02:17:58] <phantomcircuit> u3 vs u4
152 [02:18:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1184
153 [02:18:44] <sney> ,v libssl1.1
154 [02:18:45] <judd> Package: libssl1.1 on amd64 -- stretch:
1.1.0l-1~deb9u1; stretch-security: 1.1.0l-1~deb9u1; buster:
1.1.1d-0+deb10u3; buster-proposed-updates: 1.1.1d-0+deb10u4;
buster-security: 1.1.1d-0+deb10u4; bullseye: 1.1.1i-1; sid: 1.1.1i-1
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156 [02:19:15] <phantomcircuit> right so the buster version is u3
the buster-security version is u4
157 [02:19:22] <phantomcircuit> something tells me i dont want to
downgrade :)
158 [02:19:29] <sney> indeed
159 [02:19:49] <phantomcircuit> any idea how to get the debug
symbols for buster-security releases?
160 [02:20:06] <sney> the dbgsym packages would still have been
generated during auto build, but I'm not sure where it puts
them
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163 [02:22:13] <sney> the package is there, so it must be
attached to something
replaced-url
164 [02:22:21] <themill> It's available from
buster-proposed-updates-debug
165 [02:22:27] <sney> aha.
166 [02:23:05] <themill> packages normally go into both
buster/updates and buster-proposed-updates at the sameish time.
(It's a hack, security.d.o needs to learn to publish the dbgsym
packages properly)
167 [02:23:36] <themill> There seems to be little progress in
#894081
168 [02:23:38] <judd> Bug
replaced-url
169 [02:24:02] <phantomcircuit> themill, thank you!
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310 [05:40:20] <oxek> how come /var/lib/dpkg/statoverride is
automatically populated with some entries?
311 [05:40:55] <oxek> I thought this file is for the user to
override what dpkg would do when some files are being unpacked
312 [05:41:50] <oxek> hence it should not be necessary for the
file to have some default entries when one is installing from debian
repositories, because the .debs in debian repositories should
already adhere to some standard that does not need to be overridden
by default
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314 [05:43:22] <oxek> for example, this is the statoverride file
on two of my systems, where I have not modified the file myself
replaced-url
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316 [05:44:52] <sney> mine has an entry for mlocate, so I went
looking, and this is in the package's postinstall script:
replaced-url
317 [05:45:22] <sney> so your assertion that debs should adhere
to the standard is probably one of those things that is not 100% in
practice.
318 [05:46:19] <oxek> that's a very interesting observation,
thanks
319 [05:46:21] <jmcnaught> If the file was meant to be edited
manually it would be in /etc
320 [05:46:38] <oxek> jmcnaught: it gets edited by
dpkg-statoverride command
321 [05:48:18] <oxek> there probably is not a 100% distinction
between /etc/ and /var/ for a lot of configuration files, or at
least it is not clear to me
322 [05:49:06] <oxek> dpkg is a good example, with files in
/var/lib/dpkg/ modifying its behavior
323 [05:49:06] <dpkg> oxek: You are person #1 to send an
unparseable request
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326 [05:51:20] <sney> without checking, I suspect files in /etc
are considered conffiles by dpkg and files in /var are not; so you
could have debconf confirmations and 'confmiss'
implications for the former but not the latter
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329 [05:52:22] <oxek> perhaps
330 [05:52:56] <oxek> I am still thinking about the postinst
scripts using dpkg-statoverride to change the file ownership and
file mode of installed files
331 [05:53:20] <oxek> it does work, but feels like not the right
way of doing it
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333 [05:55:32] <sney> it seems like something dh_install or
dh_fixperms should be able to do, but it's in neither man page
334 [05:56:23] <sney> or the maintainer could have set the
permissions in d/rules and then overridden dh_fixperms to do
nothing. but I'm not sure which approach is more hacky.
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336 [06:00:44] <sney> I've sort of known this intuitively,
but this supports it: Debian's insistence on Policy only
reduces the amount of duct tape, it doesn't eliminate it.
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340 [06:03:44] <oxek> that's a good way of describing this -
using dpkg-statoverride as part of debian-provided .debs feels like
using duct tape
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342 [06:07:21] <sney> and it's clearly pretty rare, my
system had 3581 packages installed and only 7 entries in
statoverride
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344 [06:09:22] <oxek> sounds like whatever makes those 7 entries
should be changed to remove a bit of duct tape and replace it with a
proper solution
345 [06:09:56] <zerocool> what's a decent video card for
every day use, doesn't have to be able to play games super well
but just has to be good in linux. I'm an IT professional, KDE
plasma, transparency and wobbly windows at 144hz is about as much as
i need power for
346 [06:10:25] <sney> zerocool: I don't know about 144hz but
basically any consumer gpu from the past ~8 years should be more
than enough
347 [06:10:26] <oxek> zerocool: whichever card is integrated in
your CPU.
348 [06:10:30] <sney> also that
349 [06:11:48] <oxek> at least intel and AMD are doing a slightly
better job at writing drivers than nvidia
350 [06:12:09] <zerocool> oxek: my cpu has no integrated.
351 [06:12:14] <sney> you can get into the weeds pretty quickly
with amd and opencl support, but I guess that's not technically
"graphics"
352 [06:12:44] <zerocool> hmm, so nvidia then? should i run the
latest cards or 1000 series?
353 [06:13:03] <oxek> I'd definitely avoid nvidia,
especially since this is #debian and nvidia is not
opensource-friendly
354 [06:13:28] <oxek> get some cheap AMD card that can drive as
many monitors you need
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359 [06:18:13] <quadrathoch2> so much this. i love the way amdgpu
just works, in comparison to give myself a headache to figure out if
nvidia driver works with kernel xy
360 [06:18:17] <zerocool> even "just fine" cards as so
much money :(
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363 [06:20:37] <sney> 1000 series is even probably overkill, I
had a gtx 650 in this machine until recently and it was more than
sufficient for kde plasma with window effects on 2 monitors
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687 [12:35:32] <xoyi-> Hello, I've been experiencing Xorg
mini-freezes with Debian Buster (backported Kernel 5.9.0) and an
intel chipset. I've posted all my information in the Debian
Forums. Is it ok if I also post it here, in case anyone can help?
688 [12:35:38] <xoyi-> or is that considered spamming?
689 [12:35:54] <ratrace> !pastebin
690 [12:35:54] <dpkg> Do not paste more than 2 lines to this
channel. Instead, use for text:
replaced-url
691 [12:36:05] *** Joins: milkt (~debian@replaced-ip )
692 [12:36:59] <xoyi-> sorry I meant to ask if it's ok to
just link the forum post here
693 [12:37:09] <ratrace> sure
694 [12:37:13] *** Joins: mrjpaxton (~hidden@replaced-ip )
695 [12:37:26] <xoyi->
replaced-url
696 [12:37:39] <xoyi-> sorry, wrong link:
replaced-url
697 [12:37:46] *** PoaB1 is now known as PoaB
698 [12:38:34] <ratrace> xoyi-: most important info of all: are
there any log entries in dmesg or journal, when that happens?
699 [12:38:39] <ratrace> *relevant log entries
700 [12:40:39] <xoyi-> ratrace unfortunately no, nothing is even
written at all in dmesg, syslog, journalctl or Xorg.0.log
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706 [12:42:25] <ratrace> xoyi-: tried changing the kernel? going
back to main 4.19?
707 [12:42:35] *** Joins: frgo (~frgo@replaced-ip )
708 [12:43:00] <ratrace> do you need 5.9 for something
specifically? btw, that kernel is EOL
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710 [12:43:59] <jelly> OpenGL: renderer: llvmpipe (LLVM 7.0 256
bits) v: 3.3 Mesa 18.3.6
711 [12:44:14] <jelly> this is weird, software rendering instead
of intel accel
712 [12:44:31] <jelly> perhaps the hardware is too new for buster
drm and mesa?
713 [12:44:38] <ratrace> oh I missed that
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717 [12:47:43] <jelly> something to be said about ubuntu's
backporting of the whole stack... I'm on 18.04 right now, which
is sort of older than buster, and OpenGL: renderer: Mesa DRI Intel
UHD Graphics 620 (WHL GT2). version: 4.6 Mesa 20.0.8
718 [12:48:47] *** Joins: OD1234567890 (69f3361f@replaced-ip )
719 [12:48:49] <jelly> ,v libdrm2
720 [12:48:50] <judd> Package: libdrm2 on amd64 -- jessie:
2.4.58-2; stretch: 2.4.74-1; stretch-backports: 2.4.95-1~bpo9+1;
buster: 2.4.97-1; bullseye: 2.4.103-2; sid: 2.4.103-2
721 [12:49:02] <jelly> ,v libgl1-mesa-dri
722 [12:49:03] <judd> Package: libgl1-mesa-dri on amd64 --
jessie: 10.3.2-1+deb8u1; jessie-security: 10.3.2-1+deb8u2; stretch:
13.0.6-1+b2; stretch-backports: 18.2.8-2~bpo9+1; buster:
18.3.6-2+deb10u1; bullseye: 20.3.2-1; sid: 20.3.2-1
723 [12:49:09] <OD1234567890> hi all, relative newbie here hoping
you can guide me a bit
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725 [12:50:45] <OD1234567890> I have some weird processes running
in a VPS that I suspect might be compromised.
726 [12:50:45] <OD1234567890> For instance:
727 [12:50:46] <OD1234567890> 9575 root 20 0 25572 792 404
S 19.7 0.1 31:46.97 rjnyjvykis
728 [12:50:48] *** Joins: BCMM (~BCMM@replaced-ip )
729 [12:53:03] <OD1234567890> I then kill the process and a while
later another weird process starts.
730 [12:53:03] <OD1234567890> For instance as jjfdfeex
731 [12:53:15] *** Quits: emptylica (~pi@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
732 [12:53:23] <jelly> don't kill it. lsof -np PID it, save
output
733 [12:53:25] <OD1234567890> How can I check how/where these
processes are started ?
734 [12:55:30] *** Quits: PoaB (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
735 [12:55:50] <OD1234567890> xefpfmhuk 23063 root cwd DIR 254,0
4096 262147 /root
736 [12:55:51] <OD1234567890> xefpfmhuk 23063 root rtd DIR 254,0
4096 2 /
737 [12:55:51] <OD1234567890> xefpfmhuk 23063 root txt REG 254,0
548627 136090 /usr/bin/xefpfmhukm
738 [12:55:52] <OD1234567890> xefpfmhuk 23063 root 0u CHR 1,3 0t0
1028 /dev/null
739 [12:55:52] <OD1234567890> xefpfmhuk 23063 root 1u CHR 1,3 0t0
1028 /dev/null
740 [12:55:52] *** OD1234567890 was kicked by debhelper (flood)
741 [12:56:03] <xoyi-> ratrace I think I needed to backport the
newest kernel for some hardware to work properly, I think it was for
the graphics card specifically
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745 [12:57:20] <jelly> !paste
746 [12:57:21] <dpkg> Do not paste more than 2 lines to this
channel. Instead, use for text:
replaced-url
747 [12:57:29] *** Joins: aps_ (~aps@replaced-ip )
748 [12:57:37] <xoyi-> jelly so that part (OpenGL renderer) could
be the culprit?
749 [12:58:03] <jelly> xoyi-, not for freezes, but for
performance issues with 3d in general
750 [12:58:23] <jelly> try bullseye if you can
751 [12:58:45] <xoyi-> I was afraid to, because I'm not very
proficient with Linux/Debian, but I might have to do this in the end
752 [12:58:54] <jelly> xoyi-, which cpu model is in there?
753 [12:59:12] *** Joins: d1cor (~d1cor@replaced-ip )
754 [12:59:22] <xoyi-> i5-10210U
755 [12:59:32] <jelly> some 9th gen i5 or i7? Yeah, right
756 [12:59:49] <xoyi-> it's a 10thgen
757 [12:59:50] <OD1234567890> here is a
replaced-url
758 [13:00:12] <jelly> xoyi-, does the machine often get warmer
than 60 C ?
759 [13:00:30] *** Quits: ax562 (~ax562@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
760 [13:00:49] <xoyi-> hm, I don't think so, I haven't
noticed anything like this
761 [13:00:57] <xoyi-> btw this could be relevant to my case?
replaced-url
762 [13:01:04] *** Joins: foul_owl (~foul_owl@replaced-ip )
763 [13:01:17] *** Joins: ax562 (~ax562@replaced-ip )
764 [13:01:37] <ratrace> 10th gen might indeed require latest
kernels.
765 [13:01:52] <ratrace> (and even maybe mesa as jelly suggested,
yes)
766 [13:01:56] <jelly> that kernel is probably new enough
767 [13:02:02] <jelly> the rest of the stack, tho
768 [13:02:25] <jelly> even xorg is probably fine, drm and mesa
are possibly old
769 [13:02:34] <ratrace> 5.9? maybe, but it doesn't hurt to
try even newer. from what I've read, Intel has poured a lot of
patches into 5.10 and 5.11
770 [13:02:36] *** Joins: frgo_ (~frgo@replaced-ip )
771 [13:02:48] *** Joins: Anderson69s (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip )
772 [13:02:52] <jelly> it won't help
773 [13:02:54] <BCMM> anybody know why libqalculate 3.x has been
languishing in experimental for over a year? there's some sort
of transition in progress but i have no idea how to read this page
properly
replaced-url
774 [13:03:12] *** Quits: TulaZula (TulaZula@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
775 [13:03:19] *** Joins: banox (~banox@replaced-ip )
776 [13:03:28] <jelly> not without support on the userspace side
777 [13:03:53] *** Quits: JohnML (~john1@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
778 [13:04:22] <jelly> OD1234567890, what does strace -ff -p
23063 show?
779 [13:04:25] <ratrace> jelly: "I'm on 18.04 right
now" ... heretic. traitor. ;)
780 [13:04:28] <xoyi-> so should I try bullseye?
781 [13:05:01] *** Quits: dpkg (~dpkg@replaced-ip ) (Quit: buh bye!)
782 [13:05:14] <ratrace> xoyi-: I would. it's
"soon" to be out anyway, in a few months, if all goes
well. so if you don't mind belated security fixes... bullseye
might help
783 [13:05:25] <jelly> ratrace, sure, but my X1C7 with almost the
same GPU _works_, while xoyi's X1C8 does not :-)
784 [13:05:26] *** Quits: frgo (~frgo@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
785 [13:05:32] *** Joins: dpkg (~dpkg@replaced-ip )
786 [13:05:59] <ratrace> but first I'd try to get the 5.10
kernel. it's simpler than bumpign whole OS, and it _may_ be
sufficient.
787 [13:06:09] *** Quits: HerbY_NL2 (~HerbY_NL2@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
788 [13:06:11] <jelly> unlikely
789 [13:06:48] *** Quits: Anderson69s (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip ) (Client Quit)
790 [13:06:51] <jelly> this is a drm and mesa thing. kernel does
kms and memory allocation, not much more
791 [13:07:03] <xoyi-> side question: will upgrading to bullseye
cause any firmware upgrades too?
792 [13:07:33] <jelly> xoyi-, firmware upgrade will only happen
if you explicitely run fwupdmgr with specific options
793 [13:07:41] *** Parts: jammz (~jaggz@replaced-ip ) ("Leaving")
794 [13:07:46] <oxek> where can I find a suitable debian image
URL for this command: 'machinectl pull-tar URL debian'
795 [13:07:49] *** Quits: banox (~banox@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
796 [13:07:51] <BCMM> xoyi-; jelly: well hang on, what sort of
firmware updates?
797 [13:07:54] <ratrace> jelly: kms and memory allocation and all
the other interaction with the gpu :)
798 [13:08:03] *** Quits: sirvolta (SirVolta@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
799 [13:08:23] <BCMM> if we're talking about the kind of
firmware that is loaded every time the machine boots as opposed to
semi-permanently flashed to the hardware, then yes, it probably will
800 [13:08:24] *** Quits: aps_ (~aps@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
801 [13:08:35] <jelly> ratrace, the kernel part of the driver
doesn't do much more than that IIRC
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803 [13:08:51] *** Joins: sirvolta (SirVolta@replaced-ip )
804 [13:08:52] *** Joins: aps_ (~aps@replaced-ip )
805 [13:09:00] <BCMM> (e.g. GPU firmware, on most machines)
806 [13:09:03] <xoyi-> so I should follow this guide, right?
replaced-url
807 [13:09:12] <jelly> ,v intel-microcode
808 [13:09:13] <judd> Package: intel-microcode on amd64 --
jessie/non-free: 3.20180425.1~deb8u1; stretch-backports/non-free:
3.20190312.1~bpo9+1; jessie-security/non-free: 3.20200609.2~deb8u1;
stretch-proposed-updates/non-free: 3.20200609.2~deb9u1;
stretch-security/non-free: 3.20200609.2~deb9u1;
buster-security/non-free: 3.20200609.2~deb10u1; stretch/non-free:
3.20200616.1~deb9u1; buster/non-free:
809 [13:09:14] <judd> 3.20200616.1~deb10u1;
buster-backports/non-free: 3.20201118.1~bpo10+1; bullseye/non-free:
3.20201118.1; sid/non-free: 3.20201118.1
810 [13:09:18] <ratrace> jelly: well Intel has been pouring a lot
of code into "[not] much more than that" in 5.10 and .11
;)
811 [13:09:44] <OD1234567890> @jelly - I have no idea how to
interpret the output of strace, but it dumps a huge amount of data
continously
812 [13:09:45] <OD1234567890>
replaced-url
813 [13:09:55] <jelly> ratrace, sure, supporting new hardware
typically. Go ask #intel-gfx
814 [13:10:19] <BCMM> xoyi-: was your question about graphics
firmware in particular?
815 [13:10:28] <xoyi-> yep
816 [13:10:36] *** Quits: endstille (~endstille@replaced-ip ) (Quit: I'll be back.)
817 [13:10:51] <xoyi-> I also had to backport some wifi-related
drivers for buster to work properly
818 [13:11:02] <xoyi-> so I'm afraid if going to bullseye
might mess those up
819 [13:11:07] *** Joins: banox (~banox@replaced-ip )
820 [13:11:40] <jelly> OD1234567890, that snippet is interesting
tho. Does /usr/bin/xefpfmhukm exist?
821 [13:11:54] <BCMM> xoyi-: newer debian comes with newer
graphics firmware, yes (although not every card will actually have
an update)
822 [13:11:57] <jelly> OD1234567890, you can exit strace with
ctrl-c
823 [13:12:20] <BCMM> xoyi-: i believe that jelly was thinking of
a different sort of firmware, with the reference to fwupdmgr
824 [13:12:34] <jelly> xoyi-, I believe there are live image isos
for bullseye that may be good enough to test things
825 [13:12:41] *** Joins: msh07 (~msh07@replaced-ip )
826 [13:13:00] <BCMM> graphics firmware is usually loaded by the
graphics driver on every boot, from files which are typically
installed by Debian packages (such as firmware-amd-graphics)
827 [13:13:01] <OD1234567890> jelly , yes the file does exists.
along with quite a few other "suspect" looking files
828 [13:13:19] *** Joins: aborazmeh (~aborazmeh@replaced-ip )
829 [13:14:06] <jelly> OD1234567890, it's reasonably safe to
say your system is compromised
830 [13:14:16] <jelly> xoyi-,
replaced-url
831 [13:14:20] <BCMM> xoyi-: are you sure you need to move to
testing? if you've tried installing the backports kernel for a
graphics driver, it's quite likely that you also needed to
install firmware from backports
832 [13:14:48] <OD1234567890> jelly , safest bet to reinstall the
VPS ?
833 [13:14:50] <xoyi-> BCMM I'm not sure at all
834 [13:15:06] <BCMM> sorry, i think i joined after your initial
question
835 [13:15:17] <ratrace> OD1234567890: yes, you can no longer
trust any tool on that machine for any recovery or cleanup
836 [13:15:21] <xoyi-> but I think I did install the drivers from
backports
837 [13:15:34] <jelly> OD1234567890, if you can make a snapshot
for a post-mortem analysis that'd be nice as well
838 [13:15:37] <ratrace> OD1234567890: but most important than
that, is figuring out how you got infected. Otherwise you'll
just get infected again. and again.... and again....
839 [13:15:56] <jelly> xoyi-, did you also install
firmware-misc-nonfree from backports
840 [13:15:57] <BCMM> xoyi-: what was the original problem?
something wrong with the graphics drivers?
841 [13:15:59] <jelly> ,v firmware-misc-nonfree
842 [13:16:00] <judd> Package: firmware-misc-nonfree on amd64 --
jessie-security/non-free: 20161130-5~deb8u1; stretch/non-free:
20161130-5; stretch-backports/non-free: 20190114-2~bpo9+1;
buster/non-free: 20190114-2; buster-backports/non-free:
20200918-1~bpo10+1; bullseye/non-free: 20201022-1; sid/non-free:
20201118-1
843 [13:16:16] <jelly> xoyi-, if you haven't, those might
make a difference
844 [13:16:25] <xoyi-> I have, yes
845 [13:16:31] <xoyi-> I have 20200918
846 [13:16:34] *** Quits: banox (~banox@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
847 [13:16:44] <xoyi-> (buster-backports/non-free)
848 [13:16:45] <BCMM> xoyi-: what GPU do you have, anyway?
849 [13:16:46] <jelly> that probably matches 5.9 bdo kernel well
850 [13:16:59] <BCMM> most graphics firmware is not in that
package!
851 [13:17:21] <BCMM> (ok, some graphics firmware is not there)
852 [13:17:32] <OD1234567890> indeed ratrace ! the logs were not
quite definitive (at least to me) unfortunately
853 [13:17:32] <OD1234567890> so i guess reinstall with new
passwords etc etc
854 [13:17:34] <jelly> judd, file
/lib/firmware/i915/skl_guc_ver9_33.bin
855 [13:17:40] <judd> Search for
/lib/firmware/i915/skl_guc_ver9_33.bin in buster/amd64:
firmware-misc-nonfree: lib/firmware/i915/skl_guc_ver9_33.bin
856 [13:17:46] <ratrace> OD1234567890: jelly's suggestion to
keep a copy for later analysis is sound tho
857 [13:17:51] <jelly> BCMM, intel GPU fw is there.
858 [13:18:02] <xoyi-> BCMM it's an intel gpu
859 [13:18:07] <BCMM> ah, ok then
860 [13:18:17] <OD1234567890> jelly, a snapshot of the whole OS,
or only of the weird files ?
861 [13:18:24] <xoyi-> BCMM for reference, this is the issue:
replaced-url
862 [13:18:31] <jelly> OD1234567890, the whole machine.
Preferably with RAM.
863 [13:19:29] <BCMM> xoyi-: anything interesting in dmesg?
864 [13:19:42] <xoyi-> no nothing :/ not even in journalctl or
Xorg.0.log either
865 [13:19:44] <BCMM> (in particular, most drivers complain there
if they want to load firmware that is not available)
866 [13:20:12] <OD1234567890> jelly, will try, thanks for the
advise/help guys
867 [13:20:28] <xoyi-> well, there's only this but I think
it's wifi-related: iwlwifi 0000:00:14.3: firmware: failed to
load iwlwifi-QuZ-a0-hr-b0-56.ucode (-2)
868 [13:20:53] <xoyi-> oh and also some ACPI-related errors
869 [13:21:03] <mrjpaxton> Hey, I'm thinking of switching
back to Debian again from Ubuntu, but I really want to make sure
certain software is up to date. I'm wondering what you guys
typically do about this? Some options I've been thinking about:
debian-backports, Nix package manager, Flatpak, container system
(like Docker), an Ubuntu chroot, or something else. There's too
many options out there!
870 [13:21:22] <BCMM> xoyi-: oh, i just saw Driver
"intel"
871 [13:21:31] <jelly> xoyi-, that's wifi
872 [13:21:34] <xoyi-> and also this one: i801_smbus
0000:00:1f.4: SMBus is busy, can't use it!
873 [13:21:57] <mrjpaxton> I'll probably just use
debian-backports for the kernel and nothing else. I feel like
that's the best use for it, jsut to test out new kernel
features.
874 [13:21:58] <BCMM> xoyi-: i think on modern intel graphics
cards, most people recommend using Xorg's built-in modesetting
driver instead
875 [13:22:06] <jelly> judd, file iwlwifi-QuZ-a0-hr-b0-56.ucode
876 [13:22:10] <judd> No packages in buster/amd64 were found with
that file.
877 [13:22:16] <jelly> judd, file iwlwifi-QuZ-a0-hr-b0-56.ucode
--release buster-backports
878 [13:22:18] <judd> No packages in buster-backports/amd64 were
found with that file.
879 [13:22:25] <jelly> judd, file iwlwifi-QuZ-a0-hr-b0-56.ucode
--release bullseye
880 [13:22:28] <judd> No packages in bullseye/amd64 were found
with that file.
881 [13:22:33] <jelly> :'(
882 [13:22:42] <xoyi-> but the wifi works properly
883 [13:22:51] <jelly> judd, file iwlwifi-QuZ-a0-hr-b0-56.ucode
--release sid
884 [13:22:53] <judd> No packages in sid/amd64 were found with
that file.
885 [13:22:58] <BCMM> xoyi-: is there perhaps a message just
after that in dmesg, in which it loads some other firmware file?
886 [13:23:21] <BCMM> sometimes a driver looks for the latest
firmware first, then if that's not installed, looks for older
versions
887 [13:23:53] <xoyi-> I'll try modesetting driver in Xorg
first
888 [13:24:04] <jelly> modesetting should be the default driver.
889 [13:24:06] <BCMM> judd, file iwlwifi-QuZ-a0-hr-b0-55.ucode
890 [13:24:10] <judd> No packages in buster/amd64 were found with
that file.
891 [13:24:21] <BCMM> judd, file iwlwifi-QuZ-a0-hr-b0-55.ucode
--release bullseye
892 [13:24:22] <judd> No packages in bullseye/amd64 were found
with that file.
893 [13:24:36] <BCMM> huh, i'm looking at it on
packages.debian.org...
894 [13:24:39] <xoyi-> yes it seems that it's loading some
other driver right after: iwlwifi 0000:00:14.3: firmware:
direct-loading firmware iwlwifi-QuZ-a0-hr-b0-55.ucode
895 [13:25:13] <xoyi-> also iwlwifi 0000:00:14.3: Detected
Intel(R) Wi-Fi 6 AX201 160MHz, REV=0x354
896 [13:25:33] <BCMM> that's fine, your driver *could* use
newer firmware, but it works fine with the firmware it's got
897 [13:25:40] *** Joins: allorder (~allorder@replaced-ip )
898 [13:26:07] <BCMM> wireless driver is a red herring here
899 [13:26:22] <xoyi-> should I try disable it completely and see
if the freezes are gone?
900 [13:26:32] <xoyi-> I can use an ethernet cable in the
meantime
901 [13:26:42] <BCMM> xoyi-: no. wifi is fine.
902 [13:26:50] <xoyi-> oh ok
903 [13:27:05] <BCMM> jelly: in the forum post it says there is
van xorg.conf (that overrides that default graphics driver)
904 [13:27:58] <xoyi-> I also tried with no xorg.conf at all,
same thing
905 [13:27:58] <BCMM> x/van/an/
906 [13:28:01] <BCMM> oh
907 [13:28:11] <xoyi-> also tried with a xorg.conf after `Xorg
-configure`
908 [13:28:18] <xoyi-> (after=provided by)
909 [13:29:06] <BCMM> judd: any idea if simply having
xserver-xorg-video-intel installed will cause it to be used instead
of the modesetting driver?
910 [13:29:16] *** Quits: aborazmeh (~aborazmeh@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
911 [13:29:33] *** Joins: rewrited (~rewrited@replaced-ip )
912 [13:29:59] <BCMM> this is in the package description for the
intel driver: "The use of this driver is discouraged if your hw
is new enough (ca. 2007 and newer). You can try uninstalling this
driver and let the server use its builtin modesetting driver
instead."
913 [13:30:13] <xoyi-> oh, nice find!
914 [13:30:39] <xoyi-> I can try removing it
915 [13:30:44] <BCMM> xoyi-: you could look at
/var/log/Xorg.0.log to see which driver is being used, or you could
just uninstall that package to be sure
916 [13:30:54] <xoyi-> did just now (uninstalled)
917 [13:31:00] <xoyi-> I have to reboot I assume?
918 [13:31:47] <BCMM> you don't *have* to reboot, but
rebooting is probably the easiest way to restart X :)
919 [13:33:38] *** Quits: rolo (~error@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
920 [13:34:23] *** Quits: T-zef (~tyzef@replaced-ip ) (Quit: it's time to get down !)
921 [13:34:33] *** Quits: wallacer (~quassel@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
922 [13:34:49] *** Joins: wallacer (~quassel@replaced-ip )
923 [13:35:08] *** Joins: debsan (~debsan@replaced-ip )
924 [13:35:38] <jelly> xoyi-, oh right, get rid of your xorg.conf
925 [13:36:07] *** Joins: mirrorbird (~psutcliff@replaced-ip )
926 [13:36:46] <jelly> Xorg server in buster should try
modesetting first; Xorg.0.log probably has clues
927 [13:36:46] *** Quits: Mister00X (~quassel@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
928 [13:36:48] *** Quits: thiras (~thiras@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
929 [13:37:33] <xoyi-> it does, here are the Xorg logs:
replaced-url
930 [13:38:03] *** Quits: gangstacat (~gangstaca@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
931 [13:38:12] *** Joins: rolo (~error@replaced-ip )
932 [13:38:37] <xoyi-> There's an "unknown
chipset" warning right there, could that be the issue?
933 [13:38:37] <BCMM> xoyi-: that log file is from before
uninstalling xserver-xorg-video-intel, right?
934 [13:38:59] <xoyi-> BCMM yes, I haven't restarted since
then
935 [13:39:37] <BCMM> i'd suggest trying the modesetting
driver before trying to iron out minor problems with the intel
driver
936 [13:40:06] <xoyi-> ok I'll reboot now, after removing
that package and also my xorg.conf. brb...
937 [13:40:35] <xoyi-> what if I change to a new tty and just do
a `startx` again?
938 [13:40:42] <xoyi-> (I mean, instead of rebooting)
939 [13:41:09] <BCMM> if you don't quit your current x
session first, i have no idea what it will do to be honest
940 [13:41:23] *** Joins: jpe (~jp@replaced-ip )
941 [13:41:40] <xoyi-> ok, rebooting :)
942 [13:41:44] *** Quits: xoyi- (b9ea3948@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Connection closed)
943 [13:41:46] *** Quits: pvdp (~pvdp@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
944 [13:41:53] *** Joins: gangstacat (~gangstaca@replaced-ip )
945 [13:41:53] *** Quits: amunak (~amunak@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
946 [13:43:27] *** Quits: stackofcats (~stackofca@replaced-ip##) (Quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3 - ##replaced-url
947 [13:43:59] *** Joins: xoyi- (b9ea3948@replaced-ip )
948 [13:44:12] *** Joins: stackofcats (~stackofca@replaced-ip )
949 [13:44:54] <xoyi-> back. I still don't see anything new
at the xorg logs :O
950 [13:45:39] <xoyi-> but I have a slight impression that things
have improved (still no freezes after quite a few minutes)
951 [13:45:46] *** Quits: xoyi- (b9ea3948@replaced-ip ) (Client Quit)
952 [13:46:15] *** Quits: eliotome3000 (~eliotime@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
953 [13:46:37] *** Joins: xoyi- (b9ea3948@replaced-ip )
954 [13:46:37] <xoyi-> but I should probably hold my breath
955 [13:47:12] *** Joins: fred1m (~quassel@replaced-ip )
956 [13:47:38] <ratrace> xoyi-: tl;dr you bumped to bullseye?
957 [13:47:40] *** Quits: wallacer (~quassel@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
958 [13:47:43] *** Quits: xoyi- (b9ea3948@replaced-ip ) (Client Quit)
959 [13:48:19] *** Joins: aborazmeh (~aborazmeh@replaced-ip )
960 [13:49:53] *** Joins: xoyi- (b9ea3948@replaced-ip )
961 [13:50:06] <xoyi-> but now I get wifi disconnects :/
wpa_supplicant[716]: wlp0s20f3: CTRL-EVENT-SIGNAL-CHANGE above=1
signal=-71 noise=9999 txrate=43300
962 [13:50:33] *** Quits: _aeris_ (~aeris@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
963 [13:50:40] *** Joins: dionysus69 (~dionysus6@replaced-ip )
964 [13:51:11] *** Quits: OD1234567890 (69f3361f@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Connection closed)
965 [13:52:51] *** Joins: amunak (~amunak@replaced-ip )
966 [13:53:10] *** Joins: _aeris_ (~aeris@replaced-ip )
967 [13:53:38] *** Quits: sweatsuit (~sweatsuit@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
968 [13:53:58] *** Joins: KaiForce (~chatzilla@replaced-ip )
969 [13:54:25] <xoyi-> isn't it weird that my xorg logs are
empty?
970 [13:55:34] <xoyi-> so yeah, it seems that that package
(xserver-xorg-video-intel) was the culprit(?)
971 [13:55:45] <xoyi-> things are looking great now, 0 freezes
after 10 minutes
972 [13:55:51] <xoyi-> \o/
973 [13:56:48] *** Joins: HerbY_NL2 (~HerbY_NL2@replaced-ip )
974 [13:57:51] *** Joins: Night-Shade (~TimF@replaced-ip )
975 [13:58:49] *** Joins: banox (~banox@replaced-ip )
976 [13:59:16] *** Quits: Haudegen (~quassel@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Bin weg.)
977 [13:59:54] *** Joins: CrystalMath (~coderain@replaced-ip )
978 [14:00:30] *** Quits: Night-Shade (~TimF@replaced-ip ) (Client Quit)
979 [14:01:06] *** Joins: ddsys (~ddsys@replaced-ip )
980 [14:01:16] <xoyi-> but now instead of: `driver:
amdgpu,ati,fbdev,intel,modesetting,nouveau,radeon,vesa,vmware` I see
`driver: none` in the output of `inxi -SG`
981 [14:01:18] <xoyi-> is that normal?
982 [14:01:54] *** Quits: MasterdonX (~masterdon@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
983 [14:02:34] <BCMM> xoyi-: i don't know much about how
inxi works, but was it just listing every driver available on the
system before? (as opposed to the driver currently in use)
984 [14:02:41] *** Joins: Mister00X (~quassel@replaced-ip )
985 [14:02:46] <xoyi-> hm no idea either
986 [14:02:57] *** Joins: sweatsuit (~sweatsuit@replaced-ip )
987 [14:03:06] <ratrace> glxinfo | grep -i renderer
988 [14:03:58] <xoyi-> ratrace this hasn't change AFAICT:
replaced-url
989 [14:03:58] <BCMM> xoyi-: on my machine it just shows
"driver: amdgpu", even though i have amdgpu and
modesetting available on the system. i think it's just a bug in
inxi
990 [14:04:28] <BCMM> ratrace: yeah, that wouldn't change.
xorg drivers are not exactly the same thing as glx drivers.
991 [14:04:31] *** Quits: makani (makani@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
992 [14:04:54] <ratrace> it should, jelly was right. LLVM means
you're using software renderer.
993 [14:05:03] <xoyi-> btw I located my Xorg logs (I was
searching in the wrong path). The new ones are those:
replaced-url
994 [14:05:11] <ratrace> this is how it shows on properly
accelerated intel HD system: OpenGL renderer string: Mesa DRI
Intel(R) Haswell Desktop
995 [14:05:42] <JackFrost> BCMM: -Gxx should show something more
like: driver: intel unloaded: fbdev,modesetting,vesa
996 [14:06:01] *** Joins: makani (makani@replaced-ip )
997 [14:06:27] <xoyi-> yeah, even though I don't have the
freezes now, I have an impression that the graphics driver is not
loaded properly
998 [14:07:09] *** Quits: k-man (~jason@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
999 [14:08:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1192
1000 [14:08:12] *** Parts: pldiem (~dmazuruk@replaced-ip ) ()
1001 [14:09:28] *** Quits: mrjpaxton (~hidden@replaced-ip ) (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
1002 [14:10:29] <xoyi-> silly question: how can I determine if a
driver for my graphics card is loaded and used?
1003 [14:11:07] *** Quits: dbristow (~dbristow@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1004 [14:11:33] <LtL> xoyi-: lspci -k usually
1005 [14:11:55] <BCMM> xoyi-: kind of depends on what you mean by
"graphics driver" - there are a lot of different
components
1006 [14:12:15] <xoyi-> I see: "Kernel driver in use:
i915" under the VGA section
1007 [14:12:18] <BCMM> it's possible to have a working kernel
driver and Xorg driver but not a working gl implementation
1008 [14:12:47] <BCMM> i think llvmpipe is software rendering
1009 [14:12:57] <ratrace> (it is)
1010 [14:13:05] *** Quits: Mister00X (~quassel@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1011 [14:13:59] <BCMM> xoyi-: is libglx-mesa0 installed?
1012 [14:14:14] *** Joins: Mister00X (~quassel@replaced-ip )
1013 [14:14:33] <xoyi-> yep, 18.3.6-2
1014 [14:14:46] <BCMM> oh sorry, of course it is...
1015 [14:14:55] <BCMM> xoyi-: do you use a display manager or just
do startx?
1016 [14:15:38] <xoyi-> just startx
1017 [14:16:27] <BCMM> have you added yourself to the right groups
to be able to do that?
1018 [14:16:40] <xoyi-> from the Xorg logs I've pasted above,
I can't really determine which driver Xorg is using
1019 [14:17:00] <xoyi-> BCMM I'm in audio, video, staff
1020 [14:17:15] <BCMM> xoyi-: "Loading
/usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/modesetting_drv.so" says
you're using the modesetting driver now
1021 [14:18:38] *** Joins: k-man (~jason@replaced-ip )
1022 [14:19:05] <xoyi-> oh ok, thanks
1023 [14:19:17] *** Joins: Ericounet (~Eric@replaced-ip )
1024 [14:19:28] <BCMM> well ok it's also possible for it to
load and use other modules afterwards but there's a lot of
lines starting modeset(0): later showing that it's actually
running
1025 [14:20:16] <xoyi-> so things are not freezing now, but the
fact that it uses a software acceleration means something is wrong,
right?
1026 [14:20:46] <xoyi-> is there any other way to determine if
things are not set up correctly? e.g. opening an 1080p youtube video
or something?
1027 [14:21:03] *** Quits: a0z (~a0z@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
1028 [14:21:07] *** Quits: Kevlar_Noir (~manjaro-u@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
1029 [14:21:52] <BCMM> xoyi-: i think you might need to be in the
render group as well as video
1030 [14:22:16] <BCMM> i'm not 100% sure on that, though
(most people just use a display manager and magically get
permissions by being the locally logged-in user)
1031 [14:22:53] *** Joins: JohnML (~john1@replaced-ip )
1032 [14:22:58] <ratrace> wouldn't that be the case even if
you log in through the console? ie. it's logind doing all that?
1033 [14:23:13] <BCMM> not sure, to be honest
1034 [14:23:29] <BCMM> but you could test it by doing touch
/dev/dri/render*
1035 [14:23:38] <ratrace> and you're right about render
group, though with a DM it's solved via ACLs, not group
membership
1036 [14:24:02] <ratrace> getfacl /dev/dri/renderD128 ->
user:myuser:rw-
1037 [14:25:15] <xoyi-> I can do that
1038 [14:25:21] <xoyi-> (I mean the `touch ..` thing)
1039 [14:25:26] <xoyi-> I added myself to the render group
1040 [14:25:36] <ratrace> xoyi-: check with getfacl if you already
have the ACL
1041 [14:26:31] <ratrace> (btw, lack of permission would've
been noted in Xorg.0.log)
1042 [14:27:28] <xoyi-> ratrace
replaced-url
1043 [14:28:14] *** Quits: rolo (~error@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1044 [14:28:23] <ratrace> right, you have the ACL, you don't
need "render" group membership
1045 [14:28:36] <xoyi-> I see
1046 [14:28:42] *** Quits: JohnML (~john1@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1047 [14:29:17] <ratrace> just check you have the ACL for other
devices too. on my system there's also /dev/dri/card0
1048 [14:29:28] <BCMM> that's usually video group anyway
1049 [14:29:38] <ratrace> indeed
1050 [14:29:50] <xoyi-> I do have them
1051 [14:30:47] <ratrace> so I guess permissions aren't the
issue. unless apparmor or selinux, but that's unlikely? or....
did you do anything there (it's not default)?
1052 [14:31:11] <BCMM> xoyi-: so was glx working before, when you
were using the intel driver?
1053 [14:32:12] <xoyi-> no idea, how can I determine that?
1054 [14:32:24] <xoyi-> ah you mean the `glxinfo | grep renderer`
part?
1055 [14:32:27] <BCMM> yeah
1056 [14:32:35] <xoyi-> I *think* it was always like that
1057 [14:32:58] *** Joins: HerbY_NL3 (~HerbY_NL2@replaced-ip )
1058 [14:33:06] <ratrace> xoyi-: I didn't read the entire
scrollback; did you bump to bullseye?
1059 [14:33:49] <xoyi-> nope
1060 [14:34:16] <ratrace> so you still have that option
1061 [14:34:23] <xoyi-> because others suggested to try removing
the xserver-xorg-video-intel package first, and indeed that fixed
the freezes
1062 [14:34:25] *** Joins: FnorZ (~FnorZ@replaced-ip )
1063 [14:34:42] *** Joins: JohnML (~john1@replaced-ip )
1064 [14:35:03] <xoyi-> sure - so there still seems something is
off here, right?
1065 [14:35:12] *** Quits: HerbY_NL3 (~HerbY_NL2@replaced-ip ) (Client Quit)
1066 [14:35:37] <xoyi-> (I'm kinda confused regarding what
state my system is at right now., if something is broken or not)
1067 [14:35:54] <BCMM> i wonder if mesa is too old for that gpu
1068 [14:36:33] <BCMM> xoyi-: it sounds to me like opengl is not
working
1069 [14:36:55] <BCMM> just to confirm, this is a pure intel
graphics machine, right? not nvidia hybrid graphics or anything?
1070 [14:36:59] <xoyi-> so that means my GPU is not used at all by
the kernel?
1071 [14:37:00] *** Joins: BrianG61UK__ (~BrianG61U@replaced-ip )
1072 [14:37:02] <xoyi-> or just by X?
1073 [14:37:15] <BCMM> xoyi-: it means the gpu is not used by
opengl applications
1074 [14:37:32] <BCMM> which basically means games and desktop
compositors
1075 [14:37:50] <xoyi-> the GPU is: Intel FHD
1076 [14:37:57] *** Quits: amunak (~amunak@replaced-ip ) (Quit: bye!)
1077 [14:37:58] <xoyi-> (it's a lenovo thinkpad carbon x1 8th
gen)
1078 [14:38:33] <xoyi-> so there's no nvidia stuff, no
1079 [14:39:01] <xoyi-> BCMM does Firefox also uses OpenGL? e.g.
for youtube videos?
1080 [14:39:29] *** Quits: BrianG61UK (~BrianG61U@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1081 [14:39:30] *** BrianG61UK__ is now known as BrianG61UK
1082 [14:39:35] <BCMM> xoyi-: firefox can use opengl for
accelerated rendering (off by default for now) and for web pages
that use webgl (like google maps in 3d mode)
1083 [14:39:37] *** Quits: HerbY_NL2 (~HerbY_NL2@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
1084 [14:39:43] <xoyi-> oh ok
1085 [14:39:52] <BCMM> firefox uses a different api for gpu video
decode
1086 [14:40:02] <BCMM> (which is also off by default)
1087 [14:40:23] *** Joins: dreamon (~dreamon@replaced-ip )
1088 [14:40:46] <xoyi-> in that case, I guess I can wait a bit for
bullseye to become more "stable" and only then upgrade to
it. Until then, I can live with not having OpenGL apps, since
I'm using this purely as a developer workstation (no games,
just Xorg/i3 and surfing)
1089 [14:41:16] *** Joins: brickfat (~brickfat@replaced-ip )
1090 [14:41:35] *** Joins: mrAZ (~code@replaced-ip )
1091 [14:41:56] <xoyi-> so there's not some kind of
"blessed" driver for the given graphics card in Debian?
1092 [14:42:16] <xoyi-> I don't quite get which packages I
should install (if any) on a fresh Debian Buster installation, given
my laptop
1093 [14:42:17] *** Joins: dbristow (~dbristow@replaced-ip )
1094 [14:42:27] <xoyi-> (related to the graphics card of course)
1095 [14:43:06] *** Joins: HerbY_NL2 (~HerbY_NL2@replaced-ip )
1096 [14:43:11] <BCMM> it might be that you could just use
backports mesa
1097 [14:45:21] <xoyi-> I have the following mesa-related packages
installed currently:
replaced-url
1098 [14:45:30] <xoyi-> are you talking about any of those?
1099 [14:46:14] *** Quits: brickfat (~brickfat@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
1100 [14:46:40] <xoyi-> btw `apt list --upgradable` returns 0
results
1101 [14:46:49] <xoyi-> and I have buster-backports added in my
sources
1102 [14:47:37] *** Quits: cliluw (~cliluw@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1103 [14:49:31] <BCMM> xoyi-: adding buster-backports to your
sources does not automatically upgrade all possible packages to the
backports version
1104 [14:49:39] <BCMM> you have to specifically request backports
packages
1105 [14:49:47] *** Joins: rolo (~error@replaced-ip )
1106 [14:49:50] <xoyi-> oh ok
1107 [14:50:08] <xoyi-> so which mesa package are you referring
to?
1108 [14:50:37] <BCMM> never mind, there doesn't seem to be a
backports version of mesa
1109 [14:51:23] *** Quits: aborazmeh (~aborazmeh@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1110 [14:51:24] <xoyi-> I'm somewhat eager to try bullseye,
but I don't know how much additional trouble I'll get
into, so I'm afraid to :P
1111 [14:51:57] *** Quits: milkt (~debian@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1112 [14:52:02] <xoyi-> good thing is I only care about few stuff:
xorg, i3, docker, vim
1113 [14:52:07] *** Quits: HerbY_NL2 (~HerbY_NL2@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
1114 [14:52:10] <JackFrost> Yeah I already jumped where I could to
it, otherwise there's silly py2 deprecations I need to take
care of.
1115 [14:52:27] *** Joins: milkt (~debian@replaced-ip )
1116 [14:52:44] <xoyi-> If I could find someone with the same
workstation who tried it, I'd be less afraid
1117 [14:53:53] *** Joins: greycat (~greg@replaced-ip )
1118 [14:53:54] *** Joins: store_scarecrow (~Andrew_00@replaced-ip )
1119 [14:54:18] *** Quits: rolo (~error@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1120 [14:55:19] <xoyi-> not actually the same case, but people
also suggest here that Buster is too old for using it in brand new
hardware:
replaced-url
1121 [14:55:41] <greycat> backported kernel/xorg/mesa/firmware
goes a long way though
1122 [14:55:52] *** Quits: milkt (~debian@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1123 [14:55:54] *** Joins: runlevel7 (runlevel7@replaced-ip )
1124 [14:56:03] <BCMM> greycat: is there a backported mesa
available for the current Stable?
1125 [14:56:12] <greycat> but yes, in general, a stable release of
*any* Linux will fail to support bleeding edge hardware
1126 [14:56:20] *** Quits: format_c (~format_c@replaced-ip ) (Quit: format_c)
1127 [14:56:44] * greycat looks at "dpkg -l | grep mesa" and
gives up
1128 [14:56:55] <xoyi-> so I only add buster-backports main?
1129 [14:56:59] <xoyi-> (to my sources I mean)
1130 [14:57:33] *** Joins: milkt (~debian@replaced-ip )
1131 [14:58:11] <BCMM> if you're fine with not having opengl
until the next release, i reckon you can just carry on
1132 [14:58:17] <xoyi-> greycat: I don't see anything in
backports related to xorg or mesa :/
1133 [14:58:30] <xoyi-> I did backport the kernel (5.9.0)
1134 [14:58:39] <greycat> ,v xserver-xorg
1135 [14:58:40] <judd> Package: xserver-xorg on amd64 -- jessie:
1:7.7+7; buster: 1:7.7+19; stretch: 1:7.7+19; bullseye: 1:7.7+21;
sid: 1:7.7+21
1136 [14:58:41] <BCMM> pretty sure there is no backports mesa at
the moment
replaced-url
1137 [14:58:43] *** Quits: dionysus69 (~dionysus6@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1138 [14:58:45] <greycat> Hmm.
1139 [14:58:49] *** Joins: Tom01 (~tom@replaced-ip )
1140 [14:58:56] <BCMM> (for buster, anyway.)
1141 [14:59:11] *** Joins: Freneticks (~Frenetick@replaced-ip )
1142 [14:59:18] <xoyi-> oh, bullseye also has the same xorg
version?
1143 [14:59:22] <xoyi-> ...as Buster?
1144 [14:59:43] <Freneticks> is there something to upgrade mirror
(/etc/apt/sources.list) with dpkg-reconfigure ?
1145 [14:59:45] <ratrace> xorg versions change very rarely
1146 [14:59:56] <xoyi-> and now sure how I can backport firmware
1147 [14:59:59] <ratrace> Freneticks: "upgrade" the
list? to what?
1148 [14:59:59] <xoyi-> not*
1149 [15:00:20] <greycat> ,v firmware-misc-nonfree
1150 [15:00:21] <judd> Package: firmware-misc-nonfree on amd64 --
jessie-security/non-free: 20161130-5~deb8u1; stretch/non-free:
20161130-5; stretch-backports/non-free: 20190114-2~bpo9+1;
buster/non-free: 20190114-2; buster-backports/non-free:
20200918-1~bpo10+1; bullseye/non-free: 20201022-1; sid/non-free:
20201118-1
1151 [15:00:21] <ratrace> xoyi-: what's stopping you from
going full bullseye? security fixes?
1152 [15:00:23] <tarzeau> greycat: linux can also fail on old
hardware, it's a matter of who produced it, if the document is
widely available, and worth to write support for it
(popularity/price)
1153 [15:00:30] <Freneticks> ratrace: like the fatest mirror, or
something near the country, not the default which seems to be in us
1154 [15:00:40] *** Joins: Slashman (~Slash@replaced-ip )
1155 [15:00:47] <tarzeau> greycat: now there's that crazy
people with asahilinux getting linux to run on apple m1 hardware
1156 [15:01:00] <greycat> yes, "too old" is also an
issue
1157 [15:01:02] <tarzeau> i remember the wps printers, they were
such a mess.
1158 [15:01:24] <xoyi-> ratrace: fear of bumping onto issues that
I'll not have the time to fix (I'm starting work next
week)
1159 [15:01:35] <ratrace> Freneticks: "fastest" mirror
is a myth. something could "fastest" today, and very much
under crawling load tomorrow.
1160 [15:01:43] <xoyi-> (time or knowledge)
1161 [15:01:56] <xoyi-> but you people were very helpful here, so
there's that
1162 [15:01:59] <ratrace> Freneticks: but you can switch from the
CDN (which sould behave as "fastest" anyway), to a ccTLD
or explicit mirror in your country
1163 [15:02:07] *** Quits: steven_saus (~steven_sa@replaced-ip ) (Quit: WeeChat 3.0)
1164 [15:02:15] <ratrace> Freneticks: pick your poison:
replaced-url
1165 [15:02:19] <BCMM> xoyi-: xorg doesn't move very fast
these days
1166 [15:02:27] *** Quits: JohnML (~john1@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1167 [15:02:29] <ratrace> xoyi-: right.
1168 [15:02:39] <Freneticks> ratrace: well, in the cli wizard of
installation you can select a country, and it's bypassed if
network don't work. So i'm looking a way to get this
wizard again
1169 [15:02:42] <tarzeau> ratrace: no point in the faster mirror
if your dns servers suck
1170 [15:02:51] *** Joins: steven_saus (~steven_sa@replaced-ip )
1171 [15:03:38] <ratrace> Freneticks: it's a text file. open
in an editor (with root privileges). edit the URLs. save. ?????
profit! :)
1172 [15:03:40] *** Quits: ddsys (~ddsys@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1173 [15:04:01] <BCMM> you know, i don't actually understand
debian's version numbering for xserver-xorg at all
1174 [15:04:09] *** Joins: Haudegen (~quassel@replaced-ip )
1175 [15:04:37] <Freneticks> ratrace: i know that, i can't
memorise url. Where can I find those right url ?
1176 [15:04:38] <BCMM> upstream seems to be on version 1.20,
debian has "7.7"?
1177 [15:04:45] <greycat> I think xorg development is basically
"done" because they want to work on Wayland instead.
1178 [15:04:52] <Freneticks> don't say wiki i mean in a
terminal way
1179 [15:05:25] <greycat> Freneticks: it may not exist outside of
the installer.
1180 [15:05:48] <greycat> most people just edit the sources.list
to use whatever mirror they want
1181 [15:06:06] <BCMM> it appears to use the x11 version rather
than the xorg version, for xorg. as in X11R7.7
1182 [15:06:08] <ratrace> BCMM: iirc it was similar to java. Java
8 is actually 1.8. xorg-server 7.7. is actually 1.7.7 or something
like that
1183 [15:06:11] <Freneticks> in arch/gentoo there is a mirror file
with all mirror it's very easy
1184 [15:06:12] *** Quits: lowin (~lowin@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1185 [15:06:55] <greycat> It's easy in Debian too -- you just
remember "replaced-url
1186 [15:07:01] <BCMM> ratrace: nah, it must be the x11 protocol
version as opposed to the xorg version (so it hasn't been
bumped since 2012)
1187 [15:07:21] <greycat> or replace .us. with whatever country
code you think will work
1188 [15:07:31] <ratrace> Freneticks: I don't know if debian
maintains a list of mirrors as an updateable package
1189 [15:07:45] <ratrace> BCMM: ah yes, now that you mention it,
that rings a bell
1190 [15:07:46] <greycat> !deb.debian.org
1191 [15:07:48] <dpkg> deb.debian.org is a mirror network that is
backed by international content delivery networks and for most
users, this is the most reliable <mirror> to use in the
<sources.list>. From Debian 9 "Stretch" onwards, apt
queries SRV records in DNS which then send it off to a CDN. Older
apt will get an HTTP redirect from deb.debian.org to the same CDNs.
See
replaced-url
1192 [15:08:00] <BCMM> i'm guessing that xorg 7.7+19
corresponds to x11r7.7 and xorg 1.19
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1194 [15:08:11] <ratrace> BCMM: probably, yes
1195 [15:08:52] <BCMM> the timeline looks about right for that
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1199 [15:13:14] <xoyi-> so when do you ppl think that bullseye is
going to be released as stable?
1200 [15:13:38] <ratrace> sometime mid this year if all goes well
1201 [15:13:44] <JackFrost> ~230 days from now.
1202 [15:14:50] <ratrace> what hat did you pull that number out
of?
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1204 [15:15:06] <themill> it wasn't a hat
1205 [15:15:09] *** Joins: ddsys (~ddsys@replaced-ip )
1206 [15:15:34] <ratrace> I was being polite :)
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1212 [15:19:16] <xoyi-> btw thanks a lot for the help everyone!
1213 [15:19:20] <BCMM> xoyi-: this year, basically
1214 [15:19:45] <BCMM> xoyi-: probably approximately following the
pattern established by previous releases
replaced-url
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1216 [15:20:32] *** Joins: JohnML (~john1@replaced-ip )
1217 [15:21:03] <JackFrost> ratrace: Wild guess, looking at
replaced-url
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1220 [15:21:12] <BCMM> but also debian is released "when
it's done". it does not do the Ubuntu thing where they
pick a fixed date years in advance and it will come out on that
date, whatever state it is in
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1229 [15:27:08] <Kliment> Anyone know where the installer gets its
defaults from?
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1236 [15:29:51] <ksk> Kliment: defaults as in? maybe
replaced-url
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1239 [15:30:21] <greycat> I can't even guess which
"defaults" that question refers to.
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1241 [15:30:56] <ksk> be aware that "no sane
administrator" actually uses them, we either install what we
want directly or go with config-managment if you like that..
1242 [15:32:02] <greycat> you're assuming the question refers
to "tasks" or bundles of packages selectable during
installation ... which it might.
1243 [15:32:09] <Kliment> I mean, when I use the graphical
installer (this is the kde image), it has some defaults it uses for
the things it doesn't ask
1244 [15:32:19] <greycat> What. Things.
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1246 [15:32:49] <Kliment> and I'd like to know where these
are stored. Things like how big the partitions are in the automatic
partitioning
1247 [15:32:54] <greycat> also, "the kde image" implies
a Live. installing from a Live was never really kosher until
recently, and most of us don't do it.
1248 [15:33:11] <greycat> Oh, I've never used automatic
partitioning either.
1249 [15:33:15] <Kliment> yes, sorry, installing from a live image
1250 [15:33:49] <ksk> Kliment: I dont think there is "things
like .." in this context, you will kind of have to look up one
by one. I would assume there is some magic included in the automatic
disk setup, depending on your disk(s).
1251 [15:33:54] <Kliment> I'd like to see the defaults
because they're a sane basic configuration but I'd like to
change some sizes
1252 [15:34:00] <greycat> !d-i
1253 [15:34:01] <dpkg> Information about the development of the
debian-installer is at the developers page
replaced-url
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1256 [15:34:56] <Kliment> does the graphical installer have a
name?
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1258 [15:35:05] <greycat> It's part of d-i.
1259 [15:36:14] <Mister00X> Kliment: The live installer is called
calamares
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1263 [15:37:59] <Kliment> Mister00X: thanks!
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1283 [16:06:31] <nifker> Which package contains s2ram?
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1285 [16:07:51] <ratrace> !apt-file
1286 [16:07:51] <dpkg> apt-file is a utility used to find which
package owns a given file - or list files in a package - even if it
is not installed: "apt install apt-file && apt-file
update" ; then "apt-file search filename" to see a
list of packages containing filename (can also use a regular
expression; see man apt-file). You can also search online, ask me
about <pdo>. See also <judd-file>, <auto-apt>,
<dlocate>.
1287 [16:08:25] <nifker> !apt-file search s2ram
1288 [16:08:36] <ratrace> it's a package you need to install
1289 [16:08:55] <greycat> or ask packages.debian.org or ask judd
1290 [16:09:05] <BCMM> nifker: are you just trying to sleep your
computer?
1291 [16:09:11] <nifker> BCMM: yes
1292 [16:09:20] <BCMM> nifker: try `systemctl suspend`
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1294 [16:10:41] <BCMM> I don't think there's much need
for uswsusp these days, at least on Debian
1295 [16:10:57] <ratrace> unless you're one of them people
who aren't running systemd :)
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1297 [16:11:33] <BCMM> then you should still find another
solution, cos it's not going to be in the next debian release
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1299 [16:12:35] <ratrace> doesn't echo to somewhere in /sys
or /proc still work?
1300 [16:12:40] <BCMM> (do you actually have to do any actions
before just telling the kernel to sleep, on a modern system?)
1301 [16:13:01] <BCMM> ratrace: yeah, but uswsusp does some stuff
first i think
1302 [16:13:21] <BCMM> archwiki says "Since HAL is deprecated
and KMS drivers can save the state of the graphics card directly
without userspace quirks, s2ram development is discontinued"
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1304 [16:13:43] <BCMM> well i guess that worked
1305 [16:13:44] <ratrace> very good.
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1307 [16:14:14] <BCMM> and i think uswsusp was basically just
doing, um, something or other that makes the graphics driver happy
followed by echo > /sys/whatever
1308 [16:14:56] <ratrace> I haven't used suspend or hibernate
in quite some time
1309 [16:15:07] <ratrace> since jessie I think?
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1319 [16:23:46] <BCMM> maybe it's progress or maybe it's
just cos i've stopped using nvidia hardware, but it basically
just works now
1320 [16:24:08] <BCMM> there is a button in kde and when i press
it, the computer sleeps
1321 [16:24:15] <BCMM> if i have a swap partition, there's a
hibernate one too
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1403 [17:42:21] <Voltum> i see that the latest stable for nginx is
1.18.0 but on debian buster 1.14.2 is available
1404 [17:42:41] <Voltum> is this due some incompatibility or just
out of date?
1405 [17:42:56] <Voltum> i am thinking of using the official nginx
debian repository to get the stable
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1407 [17:45:00] <ratrace> Voltum: debian doesn't upgrade
software during the lifecycle of a release, with a few notable
exceptions. instead security fixes and to some extent bugfixes, are
ported as patches.
1408 [17:45:25] <ratrace> so if you want latest nginx, and latest
bugs, you should use official nginx debian repo, yes.
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1411 [17:46:59] <Voltum> this is unrelated, but searching for
their official repo: i find nginx.com and nginx.org
1412 [17:47:06] <Voltum> are both of those sites official?
1413 [17:47:16] <azeem> guess so
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1424 [17:59:15] <ratrace> Voltum: yes. .com is oriented at their
commercial edition, while .org is the foss one
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1451 [18:17:18] <mulletman> I just downloaded a bunch of graphics,
many of which I can not seem to rename with krusader, nautilus, or
xnview, nor archive with tar
1452 [18:18:17] <mulletman> It seems to be something about the
characters used, they show up as a combo of normal chars and ??? in
krusader and nautilus and in the term but in xnview they look much
stranger, almost like some sort of markup lang?
1453 [18:19:02] <mulletman> I was able to move them to this disk,
that is from an ext4 fs to a ntfs fs, but now cant do anything with
them...
1454 [18:19:08] <BCMM> what locale are you using?
1455 [18:19:19] <mulletman> US
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1457 [18:19:38] <BCMM> but utf8, right?
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1459 [18:20:11] <mulletman> ah sorry, I assume utf8 but am not
sure, how would I check that?
1460 [18:20:29] <BCMM> you could just type "locale"
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1463 [18:21:25] <mulletman> doh - that was a bit obvious (thank
you)
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1465 [18:21:35] <mulletman> LANG=en_US.UTF-8
1466 [18:21:54] *** Joins: Rothgar (~admin@replaced-ip )
1467 [18:22:06] <mulletman> actually en_US.UTF-8 for everything
according to locale
1468 [18:22:06] *** Joins: lesless (~lessless@replaced-ip )
1469 [18:23:34] <mulletman> For what its worth, many of the files
it seems were "named" using symbols or something like
that?
1470 [18:24:09] <zutat> maybe it's chinese or some other
asian language
1471 [18:24:58] <zutat> sometimes fonts are missing the characters
and you see strange placeholders with code in them
1472 [18:25:27] <mulletman> Possible but I dont think so (in this
case at least)
1473 [18:25:42] <mulletman> though is it possible to mix fonts in
a filename?
1474 [18:26:27] <mulletman> because they are not total jibberish,
part of the name is totally normal, and then the rest shows up as
???? in most of the apps, but in something that really looks like a
ML in xnview
1475 [18:26:52] *** Joins: Mister00X (~quassel@replaced-ip )
1476 [18:27:00] <BCMM> mulletman: filename are unformated text -
you can't specify fonts. some applications may display the
filename using more than one font, if your main font does not
include all the characters the filename uses
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1480 [18:29:13] <mulletman> so does that make it so one is not
able to rename something, say to characters that my main font does
have?
1481 [18:29:35] <mulletman> because currently I cant rename these
files using anything so far
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1488 [18:34:20] <ilikeyou> any way to force apt to be interactive
beyond its default? small package installs are not interactive
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1490 [18:37:14] *** Quits: locrian9 (~mike@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1491 [18:37:29] <BCMM> ilikeyou: as in always ask, even if it
won't install any extra packages?
1492 [18:38:21] <ilikeyou> BCMM: yes
1493 [18:38:33] <BCMM> ilikeyou: i don't think so, but you
could always do a dry-run first
1494 [18:39:05] <jhutchins> mulletman: Can you tab complete the
names?
1495 [18:39:38] <jhutchins> mulletman: What have you tried, just
the image programs?
1496 [18:40:00] <mulletman> jhutchins, yes I can tab complete the
names but not rename them in the term
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1499 [18:40:38] <mulletman> jhutchins, I have tried the term, a
few file mans, and an image program, as well as tar'ing them
none of the programs seem to know what to do and spit out various
errors
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1501 [18:42:04] <mulletman> like when i try mv imgur_WNv6nZ0_which
snack?.jpg newfilename.jpg i get mv: cannot stat
'imgur_WNv6nZ0_which snack?.jpg': Input/output error
1502 [18:42:46] <mulletman> same when i try putting quotes around
the name (actually quotes returns a no such file or dir)
1503 [18:43:20] <ilikeyou> BCMM: fair enough. thanks
1504 [18:43:27] <BCMM> mulletman: can you try, like, `stat
imgur*`?
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1506 [18:45:03] <mulletman> BCMM, mv: cannot stat
'imgur_WNv6nZ0_whic*.jpg': No such file or directory
1507 [18:45:18] <mulletman> or were you being literal? with the
stat part?
1508 [18:46:03] <BCMM> i was being entirely literal. what command
did you type? did you quote something?
1509 [18:48:05] <mulletman> stat imgur_WNv6nZ0* returns stat:
cannot stat 'imgur_WNv6nZ0_which snack?.jpg': Input/output
error
1510 [18:48:38] <mulletman> I can't separate this file from
the others, there are a bunch in one dir
1511 [18:48:45] <BCMM> "Input/output error". oh.
1512 [18:49:00] <jhutchins> mulletman: Have you tried escaping the
space with \ ? I know quotes should cover that, but it's worth
a try.
1513 [18:49:13] <BCMM> mulletman: anything interesting in dmesg?
could there be something wrong with the filesystem?
1514 [18:49:47] <BCMM> (or indeed the disk)
1515 [18:49:50] <jhutchins> mulletman: There's a utility
called "mc" (midnight commander) that used to be our go-to
tool for dealing with difficult filenames.
1516 [18:50:28] <BCMM> Input/output error doesn't seem like
it's a filename thing to me
1517 [18:50:36] <mulletman> really? I actually stopped using mc
awhile ago because it totally mauled a slew of files (thier names),
not on this batch though
1518 [18:50:47] <mulletman> will check dmesg
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1521 [18:53:12] <mulletman> well I dont understand much from dmesg
but it did show an error cound since last fsck as 1, can post to a
pastebin?
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1523 [18:53:24] <choice> Hello! How can I tell my laptop that it
should lock the screen when I close the lid? (lock screen and
suspend would be even better)
1524 [18:54:14] <quadrathoch2> Choice look under power management
in your de
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1526 [18:54:58] <BCMM> mulletman: please do pastebin that
1527 [18:55:01] *** Joins: alexandros_tab_ (~quassel@replaced-ip )
1528 [18:55:07] <choice> quadrathoch2: I did. There is nothing.
1529 [18:55:39] <BCMM> choice: what DE?
1530 [18:56:10] <choice> BCMM: The one with the taskbar .. what
was it called again?
1531 [18:56:23] <choice> BCMM: Mate!
1532 [18:57:06] <mulletman> BCMM,
replaced-url
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1536 [18:59:02] <BCMM> mulletman: this isn't a physical
machine, is it?
1537 [18:59:22] <BCMM> oh right, qubes
1538 [18:59:31] <mulletman> BCMM, I am accessing a physical disk
from a VM
1539 [18:59:44] <mulletman> sorry, didnt think that was relevant?
1540 [18:59:59] <BCMM> [ 4.090782] EXT4-fs (xvdb): warning:
mounting fs with errors, running e2fsck is recommended
1541 [19:00:02] *** Joins: chaky (~chaky@replaced-ip )
1542 [19:00:03] <mulletman> an external physical disk that is
1543 [19:00:07] <BCMM> did fsck get run?
1544 [19:00:51] <mulletman> I havent run it yet, but that is not
actually the drive that is having problems, afaik i can access
everything on xvdb
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1549 [19:01:10] <mulletman> the disk that has files i cant seem to
do anything with is xvdi
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1551 [19:02:46] <BCMM> i can't see an xvdi. i guess i
don't know much about xen virtual block devices
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1554 [19:04:01] <mulletman> I only saw one mention of it in the
dmesg output, [ 118.659910] blkfront: xvdi: barrier or flush:
disabled; persistent grants: enabled; indirect descriptors: enabled;
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1558 [19:05:21] <mulletman> Do you think connecting the phys ext
disk to a win machine and running whatever win uses to check disks
would be of benefit? as its an ntfs fs
1559 [19:06:26] <quadrathoch2> mulletman very much as the ntfs
Tools are not great on linux
1560 [19:06:38] <quadrathoch2> chance, sorry no idea about mate
1561 [19:06:49] <quadrathoch2> choice ^
1562 [19:07:50] <mulletman> quadrathoch2, thanks. The ext drive is
a "drobo" and the consensus seems to be that any of the
extfs on it are not a great idea hence the ntfs
1563 [19:07:53] <BCMM> mulletman: is it an ntfs disk?
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1565 [19:08:03] <BCMM> oh right sorry you answered that
1566 [19:08:12] <BCMM> yes you should probably use windows to
check your ntfs disk
1567 [19:08:12] <mulletman> BCMM, yes (no worries)
1568 [19:08:24] <mulletman> ok, will try that when i get home.
thanks all!
1569 [19:08:31] <BCMM> (in general avoid ntfs unless you're
exchanging data with a windows system)
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1573 [19:11:52] <sig_9> BCMM: not necessarily
1574 [19:12:20] <Voltum> whats the command to see version of
package available in various repos? like backports, stable etc?
1575 [19:12:29] <Voltum> apt-policy something i think
1576 [19:13:15] <BCMM> Voltum: apt-cache policy?
1577 [19:13:16] <greycat> you from *your* system? uh... aptitude?
rmadison or something? from here, you'd ask judd.
1578 [19:13:22] <sig_9> apt search packagename
1579 [19:13:36] <greycat> I guess apt policy would also work.
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1582 [19:14:38] <BCMM> are all these shortcuts in the apt command
documented somewhere?
1583 [19:14:45] <sig_9> apt search
1584 [19:14:47] <BCMM> `apt policy` isn't mentioned `man apt`
1585 [19:15:32] <greycat> The apt and apt-get man pages are
definitely incomplete.
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1588 [19:16:38] <Voltum> another question, i see a package
available both in buster and buster-backports (which i have
enabled): to install it i do apt-get -t buster-backports package
1589 [19:16:53] <Voltum> is there a way to always get that package
from backports, without having to specify -t
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1591 [19:17:26] <greycat> No. By design. On purpose. backports are
NOT to be used as a default for new packages.
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1593 [19:17:45] <greycat> Once you've installed it from
backports, though, future updates to backports should be used by
"apt update".
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1595 [19:17:52] <greycat> err, "apt upgrade"
1596 [19:17:54] <Voltum> oh i see
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1598 [19:18:13] <BCMM> Voltum: what do you mean by "always
get that package from backports"?
1599 [19:18:34] <BCMM> do you want something you can set just for
that specific package, or do you want apt to *always* prefer
backports?
1600 [19:18:39] <Voltum> i was looking specifically for ejabberd,
they dont seem to provide a repository (like nginx does) with the
latest stable for debian, they just provide a deb package
1601 [19:18:50] <greycat> ,v ejabberd
1602 [19:18:51] <judd> Package: ejabberd on amd64 -- jessie:
14.07-4+deb8u3; stretch: 16.09-4; stretch-backports:
18.12.1-2~bpo9+1; buster: 18.12.1-2; buster-backports:
20.12-1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 20.12-1; sid: 20.12-1
1603 [19:19:06] <Voltum> no i just wanted to grab the latest every
time i upgrade, without having to manually get the deb file from
their site
1604 [19:19:30] <greycat> once you install it from
buster-backports it should continue to use any future updates from
buster-backports *IF* there are any
1605 [19:19:31] <BCMM> Voltum: if you with -t backports it will
get updates from backports in future
1606 [19:19:39] <BCMM> ^if you install with
1607 [19:20:23] <greycat> There's no guarantee that anyone
will update it in buster-backports. Depends on how many people care
about it, and how responsive they are to new versions.
1608 [19:20:31] <BCMM> you don't have to do, like, apt
upgrade -t buster-backports or anything
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1610 [19:20:43] <Voltum> yeah, thing is i do the installation with
ansible, will have to see if they offer a mechanism for that
1611 [19:20:52] <BCMM> yes, ok. obviously it will not install
updates if no updates exist. thanks greycat.
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1614 [19:21:30] <BCMM> point is that you won't be stuck with
a new version in backports being ignored while apt waits for the
stable version to overtake it
1615 [19:21:34] <Voltum> gneh
1616 [19:21:52] <Voltum> they do have a mechanism for specifying
-t, with the apt module. so everything is good
1617 [19:22:23] <Voltum> BCMM, i see
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1620 [19:24:16] <mulletman> BCMM, would what ever macs use
cooperate better with linux than ntfs?
1621 [19:24:21] <sig_9> Voltum: lots of different ways to search
packages
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1623 [19:24:29] <sig_9> apt search I use a lot:
replaced-url
1624 [19:25:06] <mulletman> I just ask because it seems to be
inadvisable to use extfs on drobo, which leaves me with ntfs or i
think the mac fs (drobo seems to be pretty mac centric)
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1626 [19:25:27] <BCMM> mulletman: i don't know, i don't
use macs much. doesn't linux natively support hfs?
1627 [19:25:35] <Voltum> another thing, i automate an apt
installation with ansible and don't want to lose my previous
confs. i see dpkg offers these options: --force-confnew
--force-confdef --force-confold. according to the manpage, i can use
both --force-confold and --force-confdef, in which case the default
option is preferred otherwise the old config is kept
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1629 [19:26:12] <Voltum> are there packages that have already
defined a default option? like keep old config or replace with the
new one? i usually always use the old conf
1630 [19:26:22] <sig_9> you can download "extFS" for mac
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1632 [19:26:31] <sig_9> it will allow you to use ext4 FS's
1633 [19:26:37] <mulletman> BCMM, not sure, will check into that.
I am just assuming that since mac is *NIX based, the fs it uses
would likely play with linux better. cheers
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1635 [19:26:58] <sig_9> mulletman: it will, just download the
extFS for Mac
1636 [19:27:11] <BCMM> mulletman: looks like hfs+ only works as
read-write if the journal is switched off
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1639 [19:27:42] <sig_9> also you can add ext4 support to macOS
with 'osxfuse' and
1640 [19:27:48] <sig_9> 'ext4fuse'
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1699 [20:25:43] <daysun> how do you update a system behind a very
strong firewall?
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1701 [20:26:48] <greycat> Depends on what your options are. Can
the system be taken offline and moved physically to a place that
isn't restricted? Can you poke a temporary hole through the
firewall?
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1703 [20:27:54] <daysun> Full control over the firewall.
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1705 [20:28:03] <daysun> interesting idea.. to temporarily open it
up!
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1707 [20:28:16] * daysun pets greycat!!
1708 [20:28:38] <daysun> You deserve another one!
1709 [20:28:43] * daysun pets greycat!
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1713 [20:30:12] <daysun> I was thinking about opening up the
correct ports and such for updates.. but that's a hassle I
suppose?
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1724 [20:41:16] <greycat> Only you will know how much of a hassle
each option is.
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1736 [20:46:02] <Wafficus> Hi there, I have question regarding
Debian 10 Buster. I want to force an Emacs 27 install. Do I have to
upgrade to a more experimental version?
1737 [20:46:14] <Wafficus> *Emacs Version 27 to install itself.
1738 [20:46:28] <Wafficus> currently, I have Emacs 26.1 installed
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1743 [20:47:14] <quadrathoch2> ,v emacs
1744 [20:47:15] <judd> Package: emacs on amd64 -- jessie: 46.1;
stretch: 46.1; buster: 1:26.1+1-3.2+deb10u1; buster-updates:
1:26.1+1-3.2+deb10u1; bullseye: 1:27.1+1-3; sid: 1:27.1+1-3
1745 [20:47:33] <quadrathoch2> ,checkbackport emacs
1746 [20:47:58] <judd> Backporting package emacs in
sid→buster/amd64: all build-dependencies satisfied using
archignore, buster, virtual.
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1748 [20:48:09] <quadrathoch2> !ssb
1749 [20:48:10] <dpkg> First, check for a backport on
<debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for
sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable
debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) apt update; apt install
build-essential; apt build-dep packagename 4) apt -b source
packagename 5) dpkg -i packagename-ver.deb To change compilation
options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid
see <uupdate>.
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1751 [20:48:22] <quadrathoch2> Wafficus ^
1752 [20:48:35] <Wafficus> ah, bear with me on this one
1753 [20:48:38] <greycat> Your choices are to backport it yourself
(see above); or to build from upstream source code; or to upgrade
your whole system to testing.
1754 [20:48:49] <Wafficus> so I have to install a
"backport" that's compatible with Debian 10 Buster?
1755 [20:48:52] <Wafficus> ah gotcha
1756 [20:48:57] <Wafficus> I would upgrade my whole system to
testing
1757 [20:48:59] <Wafficus> that I don't mind
1758 [20:49:02] <greycat> Or, the best choice of all for most
people, just live with the version you have.
1759 [20:49:05] <Wafficus> I only literally use the VM for Emacs
1760 [20:49:15] *** Quits: gpunk (~gpunk@replaced-ip##) (Quit: KVIrc 5.0.0 Aria ##replaced-url
1761 [20:49:19] <Wafficus> can't live with that version of
Emacs, there's a lot of changes that just are better in the
latest one
1762 [20:49:34] <Wafficus> so how do I force Debian to upgrade
itself to the testing branch instead of Debian 10 Buster stable
1763 [20:49:43] <greycat> !testing
1764 [20:49:43] <dpkg> Testing is a continuously updated release
between <stable> and <unstable>, currently codenamed
<bullseye>. See
replaced-url
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1770 [20:51:54] <ratrace> !testing-security
1771 [20:51:55] <dpkg> Security updates in testing are delayed by
the normal testing migration *and* may be further delayed by missing
dependencies, etc. See
replaced-url
1772 [20:52:30] <ratrace> this should be separately highlighted in
the !testing factoid
1773 [20:52:53] <greycat> It's a rather long factoid already.
1774 [20:53:18] <greycat> <testing security> is there ... is
that different from <testing-security>?
1775 [20:53:25] <ratrace> sure, what I mean is <testing
security> should be made more visible in that factoid
1776 [20:54:02] <ratrace> greycat: they're aliases
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1778 [20:54:14] <greycat> debian-next says THREE TIMES that
it's on the OFTC network, and yet people still don't read
it
1779 [20:54:50] <ratrace> point taken :)
1780 [20:56:55] <quadrathoch2> hm, is there a Tool on the cli,
that does basically ,checkbackport?
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1813 [21:28:33] <Wafficus> I upgraded to Testing, but its not
letting me update Emacs to 27:
replaced-url
1814 [21:29:46] <greycat> !debian-next
1815 [21:29:47] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for
testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not*
on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is
invite only)." it means you did not read it's on
irc.oftc.net. See also
replaced-url
1816 [21:30:36] <Wafficus> ok thanks
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1818 [21:30:45] <greycat> anyway, try "apt full-upgrade"
1819 [21:30:49] <Wafficus> ah man, its not on Frenode
1820 [21:30:53] <Wafficus> *Freenode...
1821 [21:30:57] <Wafficus> yikes
1822 [21:31:26] <petn-randall> yikes?
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1825 [21:32:13] <CrystalMath> yeah it's a scary world out
there, beyond freenode
1826 [21:32:50] <Wafficus> its more of an annoyance to have to
connect to a different network, register etc.
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1828 [21:33:07] <Wafficus> I'll have to figure that one out
as this Kiwi instance is primarily freenode based
1829 [21:34:07] <CrystalMath> you don't need to register for
one visit
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1831 [21:34:41] <Wafficus> yeah I tried using the links above (replaced-url
1832 [21:35:44] <sney> registration is required for #debian-next.
it only takes a few seconds and the nickserv syntax is simple, see
'/msg nickserv help register' on your oftc-connected
client
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1837 [21:38:20] <Wafficus> when I tried the related command
"/msg NickServ REGISTER debian-next foo@bar.com", it said
I'm already connected as my current username
1838 [21:38:50] <Wafficus> CrystalMath that's not true. You
need to be invited to that #debian-next channel
1839 [21:39:06] <sney> Wafficus: if you're getting
'invite only' you have not connected to oftc, you're
still on freenode
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1841 [21:40:21] <sney> oftc has a web chat if that helps,
replaced-url
1842 [21:41:25] <Wafficus> thanks that was very helpful sney
1843 [21:41:59] <ratrace> and that nickserv command is totally
wrong unless you intend to register with "debian-next" as
password
1844 [21:43:06] <greycat> sney: you can register on OFTC through
nickserv now? When I did it, I had to use a web page.
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1846 [21:43:40] <sney> greycat: it's 2 steps, first with
nickserv and then verification on the website
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1865 [22:01:49] <chakpapa> Does the Debian Security Team manage
Testing at least during the Freeze period? Or is it only after it
enters stable they take it?
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1867 [22:02:41] <petn-randall> chakpapa: Usually at some point
during freeze they announce they have everything place and provide
security support.
1868 [22:02:56] <chakpapa> Ok. Got it.
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1870 [22:03:14] <chakpapa> Did bullseye already enter the
transitional freeze yet? Was marked for today I suppose
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1872 [22:03:52] <greycat> !debian-next
1873 [22:03:52] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for
testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not*
on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is
invite only)." it means you did not read it's on
irc.oftc.net. See also
replaced-url
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1875 [22:04:06] <chakpapa> greycat thanks
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1879 [22:07:48] <sney> the wiki and this page
replaced-url
1880 [22:08:47] <chakpapa> Thanks
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1894 [22:21:23] <babaorheum> Hello, i have a problem with
dpkg-buildpackage. I refresh all debian/patch and succeed to applies
them with "quilt push -a". But when i launch
"dpkg-buildpackage", quilt fails to apply the patches and
i don't understand why.
1895 [22:22:01] *** Quits: zutat (4e31a365@replaced-ip ) (Quit: q)
1896 [22:22:26] <sney> babaorheum: this is more of a user support
channel, you may have better results in #packaging or
#debian-mentors on oftc (note, right now you are on freenode)
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1898 [22:22:57] <babaorheum> sney: Ok, thank you :-)
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1946 [23:17:33] *** Joins: Brigo_ (~Brigo@replaced-ip )
1947 [23:20:23] *** Joins: Rothgar (~admin@replaced-ip )
1948 [23:20:34] *** Quits: fjavier (~fjavier@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1949 [23:20:46] *** Quits: Ctaeth (~Ctaeth@replaced-ip ) (Changing host)
1950 [23:20:46] *** Joins: Ctaeth (~Ctaeth@replaced-ip )
1951 [23:20:56] *** Joins: Texou (~Texou@replaced-ip )
1952 [23:20:58] *** Quits: konrados (~konrados@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1953 [23:21:09] *** Quits: martinus__ (~martin@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1954 [23:21:49] *** Quits: DodgeThis (~DodgeThis@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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1956 [23:26:12] *** Joins: fjavier (~fjavier@replaced-ip )
1957 [23:29:30] <jhutchins> Pilot threatens to put plane down in
Kansas, throw troublemakers off:
replaced-url
1958 [23:30:15] <abrotman> wrong channel ?
1959 [23:30:37] <jhutchins> abrotman: Hey, you're good. Yeah,
sorry, meant for the Kansas LUG.
1960 [23:30:53] *** Quits: kriger (~norge@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection timed out)
1961 [23:31:06] *** Quits: forgotmynick (uid24625@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
1962 [23:31:15] <abrotman> I only watch IRC for jhutchins posting
youtube links ..
1963 [23:34:01] *** Quits: rolo (~error@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1964 [23:34:39] <dvs> Does Kansas have a Debian question??? ;-)
1965 [23:36:26] <jhutchins> Often. They come here. Some of answer
questions too.
1966 [23:36:49] <jhutchins> Just more fun from a trackpad on a
couch.
1967 [23:37:08] *** Quits: Steeve (~steve@replaced-ip ) (Quit: end)
1968 [23:37:34] *** Joins: Steeve (~steve@replaced-ip )
1969 [23:37:44] *** Quits: Steeve (~steve@replaced-ip ) (Client Quit)
1970 [23:37:47] *** Quits: routebee (~routebee@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1971 [23:38:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1195
1972 [23:38:08] *** Quits: coot (~coot@replaced-ip ) (Quit: coot)
1973 [23:41:37] *** Quits: fjavier (~fjavier@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1974 [23:42:44] *** Quits: rgwu (~rgwu@replaced-ip ) (Quit: leaving)
1975 [23:42:46] *** Quits: Gerowin (~Gerowen@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
1976 [23:43:48] *** Quits: store_scarecrow (~Andrew_00@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1977 [23:44:11] *** Joins: d1cor (~d1cor@replaced-ip )
1978 [23:44:19] *** Joins: msh07 (~msh07@replaced-ip )
1979 [23:46:45] *** Quits: lazr47 (~lazr47@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1980 [23:50:27] *** Joins: kriger (~norge@replaced-ip )
1981 [23:50:37] *** Quits: msh07 (~msh07@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1982 [23:50:48] *** Joins: mihi (~mihi@replaced-ip )
1983 [23:51:50] *** Quits: dvs (~hibbard@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1984 [23:53:05] *** Quits: shiki (~sevu@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1985 [23:54:47] <jhutchins> Not that laptop trackpads on a desk
are much better.
1986 [23:56:16] *** Quits: MrFixIt (~Sam@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1987 [23:56:35] *** Joins: HeXiLeD (~grumpy@replaced-ip )
1988 [23:57:08] *** Joins: j7k6 (~j7k6@replaced-ip )
1989 [23:57:13] *** Joins: sevu (~sevu@replaced-ip )
1990 [23:58:13] *** Joins: beelzebuzz (~rasputin@replaced-ip )
1991 [23:58:15] *** Joins: rolo (~error@replaced-ip )
1992 [23:58:33] *** Joins: milkt (~debian@replaced-ip )
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context: nick names on moving displays as market values
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