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• 46[00:47:07] <nan`> what does "default" mean in the 'distribution' field of a sources.list entry? I tried to find it documented and i couldn't. The first place i saw it used was in element's (formerly riot's) install instructions for linux desktop
• 47[00:47:39] <nan`> i guess i'm wondering should i really use that and what happens during a system upgrade
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• 50[00:48:35] <sney> where do you see default?
• 51[00:48:58] <nan`> replaced-url
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• 53[00:49:30] <sney> oh, that's just element giving an arbitrary name to their suite
• 54[00:49:53] <sney> 3rd parties can use whatever names they want, it won't affect your other sources
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• 56[00:50:25] <nan`> oh... i guess i didn't see that is real folder. Why would someone do that exactly?
• 57[00:51:14] <sney> probably if they don't need to build separate binaries for every stretch buster focal xenial etc. variant, they can just put everything in one dir
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• 59[00:51:47] <virgohg> kissed goodbye to windoze and switched to debian - one of the best decisions of mine on computing :)
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• 61[00:52:08] <virgohg> much less lag
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• 64[00:52:22] <nan`> sney: oh i guess that makes sense.
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• 66[00:52:50] <nan`> sney: so they must pick a platform to prepare it on and all the runtime deps are there on each version? And they test it on each platform then?
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• 68[00:53:54] <sney> nan`: hahaha I doubt they test it on every platform. probably just one or two amd64 ubuntu vms if you're lucky. but I suspect it's one of those electron embedded browser apps where the .deb is just a wrapper for a self-updating self-contained beast
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• 71[00:55:51] <nan`> sney: thanks for all your help
• 72[00:55:56] <sney> np
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• 74[00:56:23] <virgohg> oh no, not the electron... yet another needless mithosis of chromium! a "hello world!" example shouldn't take ~200M of disk space
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• 77[00:58:22] <virgohg> someone should make it into a runtime, so you won't need to copy chromium libraries over and over again. just update the app's files. is that something too much to ask for?
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• 81[01:00:03] <sney> well, the whole "point" of them is that you don't need to do that, so it's unlikely. besides, well-meaning programmers have been using up all the memory with "universal runtimes" so that wouldn't really solve anything either.
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• 84[01:00:32] <sney> hm, insert a "for decades" in that last part somewhere
• 85[01:02:56] <virgohg> but, electron apps would give niklaus wirth ptsd (he had "a plea for lean software")
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• 101[01:31:06] <zumba_ad_> 10.5 is the latest stable right? replaced-url
• 102[01:31:28] <brettgilio> zumba_ad_: Correct
• 103[01:31:32] <zumba_ad_> thank you
• 104[01:31:57] <zumba_ad_> I'm planning to install prometheus package in 10.5
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• 111[01:40:34] <steve_> 6 hours later, the installation is complete! But it is ridiculously slow to boot. I guess I'll have to try the persistent live USB. Why isn't there a pre-imaged persistent live USB?
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• 113[01:41:19] <sney> it's a fairly unusual use case.
• 114[01:41:44] <sney> though with ostree gaining popularity, it might become more popular that way
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• 116[01:43:48] <steve_> sney: vaguely familiar with ostree, not at all with capser.. Are you saying ostree instead of casper is becoming popular? Or they are not mutex?
• 117[01:45:01] <sney> ostree is a different thing, but it's based around immutable images for linux with only /home being writable, so it's easy to see the live applications there
• 118[01:45:28] <sney> I hadn't heard of casper until right now but it looks like it's specifically for portable live systems only.
• 119[01:46:20] <sney> (debian doesn't have an ostree release yet. fedora does, and I test drove it a few months ago. it's fine.)
• 120[01:46:29] <steve_> Is there an ostree friendly distro? I've only seen it used for embedded Linux
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• 122[01:46:41] <steve_> ^^
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• 173[02:59:26] <brachamh_> hi, where / how do i use kernel command line parameters?
• 174[03:00:10] <mutante> brachamh_: in grub config
• 175[03:00:22] <mutante> or in a boot menu
• 176[03:01:33] <brachamh_> ah ok that makes sense, thank you. i'm trying to get rfkill to stop blocking a usb wifi device
• 177[03:02:25] <mutante> you're welcome. yea, you gotta do it at boot
• 178[03:02:44] <mutante> well, unless it's just unloading a module
• 179[03:02:50] <mutante> that you can do while things run
• 180[03:04:55] <brachamh_> as far as i can tell, rfkill is setting wifi soft-block on every boot. i can unblock it afterward and connect to the network, but that's a pain in the butt
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• 183[03:07:13] <mutante> brachamh_: you can put "rfkill unblock all" into some place that gets executed during boot. that's another option and unrelated to kernel command line
• 184[03:07:18] <mutante> (i think)
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• 187[03:08:56] <mutante> brachamh_: there is also /etc/modprobe.d/ where you can blacklist certin modules from being loaded. like the 3rd answer on replaced-url
• 188[03:09:44] <brachamh_> i've tried that, only problem is that ... and i should test if this is how it works when i manually do it, but i think what's happening from what i can see during startup is that ifup is bringing the wifi up, then rfkill is killing it, so even if i unblock, i then have to bring the interface back up also
• 189[03:09:52] <brachamh_> oh i didn't try that
• 190[03:09:54] <brachamh_> haha
• 191[03:09:57] <brachamh_> lemme look
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• 198[03:19:10] <brachamh_> mutante, the modprobe.conf idea?
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• 203[03:21:10] <mutante> brachamh_: just because that guy said blacklisting "wmi" would stop the blocking in the first place.. not sure
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• 205[03:22:56] <brachamh_> mutante, from what i read further on, that was because of...something else lol
• 206[03:23:47] <brachamh_> oh, to help with the hard block
• 207[03:23:53] <brachamh_> i only have a soft block issue
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• 209[03:24:57] <mutante> earlier you said you have unblock and bring up the interface. so maybe just do that and don't care if it's 1 or 2 commands as long as you get it executed at boot or at login
• 210[03:25:18] <mutante> i don't have a better idea at least, heh
• 211[03:26:08] <mutante> you can put the commands into a systemd unit file and have your own "fix-the-shit" service
• 212[03:26:29] <brachamh_> yeah. i'll try the modprobe.conf idea...just can't remember if there's a certain format to a conf file
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• 234[03:45:20] <brachamh_> oh boy i'm trying to remember what i all did lastnight when i was messing with stuff late into the night lol
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• 236[03:48:22] <somiaj> brachamh_: 'history' help?
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• 244[03:59:06] <brachamh_> just going through it now...along with helping the wife out with random stuff
• 245[04:00:29] <brachamh_> ah yes very helpful
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• 275[04:39:08] <CyberManifest> What are the most keyboard keys Debian supports or can handle?
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• 281[04:46:12] <sponix> CyberManifest: test it
• 282[04:46:30] <CyberManifest> sponix: test what?
• 283[04:46:42] <sponix> how many it can "handle"
• 284[04:46:51] <sponix> my best is as many as you can find plugins for
• 285[04:46:55] <sney> CyberManifest: both #debian channels have a lot of overlap in volunteer helpers. the less you respect our time and the channel rules/guidelines, the less many of us will be inclined to help you.
• 286[04:46:56] <sponix> my bet --
• 287[04:47:02] <CyberManifest> sponix: no, I mean device wise
• 288[04:47:09] <CyberManifest> like actual physical keys
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• 290[04:47:25] <sponix> lol
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• 295[04:50:51] <somiaj> sponix: they have been given an answer on oftc btw.
• 296[04:51:08] <sponix> somiaj: that is great
• 297[04:51:27] <sponix> I've had a bit too much to drink and have no clue on that topic anyway
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• 299[04:51:53] <somiaj> sponix: cheers
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• 305[04:55:39] <n-iCe> Hello guys
• 306[04:55:41] <brachamh_> writing a script...if there may be a delay after one command before the next command can be run (waiting for hardware), that has to be written in?
• 307[04:56:14] <sney> yes, one way or another
• 308[04:56:23] <sney> easy to get into race conditions that way too
• 309[04:58:08] <brachamh_> race conditions?
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• 311[04:58:43] <sney> yes, where the timing of specific components can cause something to succeed or fail, just by being e.g. too slow
• 312[04:58:51] <sney> like they are racing.
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• 315[05:00:41] <sney> without knowing what you're scripting, it might be smarter to poll the device status as part of the script and only proceed when it returns ok
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• 318[05:03:05] <brachamh_> fair enough. i'm having issues with my usb wifi dongle on a desktop computer being soft-blocked by rfkill every boot
• 319[05:03:38] <somiaj> might not be rfkill softblocking it, but that is what is fixing the issue. Wonder if this can be dealt with using a udev rule.
• 320[05:03:41] <Voldenet> CyberManifest: linux/input.h has input_event structure that takes `__s32 value`, so you can consider that an upper value until you discover something more constraining
• 321[05:06:22] <brachamh_> i've done a whole bunch of reading the last couple days and apparently it's a common issue, and it seems the fix is different for each hardware configuration!
• 322[05:06:39] <brachamh_> well, maybe not a common issue, but semi-common
• 323[05:06:50] <sney> I had that issue with the built-in wifi on my old netbook, and the fix was to install stretch instead and upgrade! I have no idea why.
• 324[05:06:56] <brachamh_> haha
• 325[05:06:59] <brachamh_> i have buster
• 326[05:07:32] <somiaj> sney: it wasn't that stretch used the old 70-persistant udev rule? I recall upgrades kept that around, fresh installs didn't.
• 327[05:07:32] <brachamh_> it's an old computer, so it's buster 32bit with LXQt
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• 329[05:08:07] <somiaj> often times udev rules can be used to trigger scripts at appropriate times when a device is plugged in (Which I think also applies to boot)
• 330[05:08:19] <sney> somiaj: hm, maybe. it's online now and running bullseye, I'll check
• 331[05:08:38] <sney> nope, rules.d is empty. nuts
• 332[05:08:59] <somiaj> hmm, maybe it was stretch that first got rid of that, releases are starting to blur in my mind
• 333[05:09:23] <n-iCe> Ok I'm thinking in install debian netinstall in a really old laptop that only can work with wifi I'm using nonfree what would be the way to make my wifi connected using console?
• 334[05:09:41] <n-iCe> At the installation a wifi menu was promoted can I run it later in the system?
• 335[05:10:07] <somiaj> n-iCe: if the installer detects and uses the wifi, everything to bring the wifi back up is in the /etc/network/interfaces file
• 336[05:10:16] <somiaj> n-iCe: so if you need to change networks you can just edit that
• 337[05:10:23] <n-iCe> Any other way?
• 338[05:10:29] <n-iCe> Lile a gui
• 339[05:10:38] <n-iCe> Like the wifi settings tool at the installation
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• 341[05:11:01] <somiaj> You can use various ways to configure your network. network-manager is very common, wicd is a bit lighter gui, but until they fully upgrade to python3 it might not make it into bullsyeye
• 342[05:11:48] <somiaj> wpasupplicant has a wpa-gui tool you can use as well, I personally follow the docs in /usr/share/doc/wpasupplicant/ (one of the READMEs) and follow the instructions to put wpasupplicant in roam moad from the interfaces file, then you can control it via wpa-gui
• 343[05:12:27] <n-iCe> somiaj I'm in netinstall only console
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• 345[05:12:56] <somiaj> network manager has a cli tool that I think has a curses enviorment, but I don't know of a way to get the installer gui outside of the installer
• 346[05:13:10] <somiaj> n-iCe: if you are in the installer's shell you have very limited tools. Did the installer not detect the wifi?
• 347[05:14:33] <somiaj> You can manually do it with the ip/iw tools, but I would have to look all that up
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• 350[05:17:13] <n-iCe> somiaj It shows detect it
• 351[05:19:22] <n-iCe> But after installation I have no internet
• 352[05:19:25] <n-iCe> You follow me?
• 353[05:19:44] <n-iCe> What's the name of the tool from installation to configurator wifi
• 354[05:19:51] <n-iCe> I can run it in console maybe
• 355[05:20:47] <n-iCe> somiaj you have any idea?
• 356[05:21:56] <somiaj> n-iCe: so you have completed the net-install and are just at the console?
• 357[05:21:58] <independent> Can anyone point me to a proot version used by termux with the --link2symlink parameter working on any architecture
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• 360[05:22:20] <n-iCe> somiaj correct
• 361[05:23:21] <somiaj> n-iCe: have you looked at the /etc/network/interfaces file, is the wifi interface and network information correct in there?
• 362[05:24:26] <n-iCe> Let me check
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• 364[05:26:12] <burrows> how do I disable infrared audio from the kernel?
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• 367[05:26:34] <burrows> the red light is distracting
• 368[05:26:54] <sney> your sound driver may have an option for it
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• 370[05:27:34] <sney> you can see module options with 'modinfo' and apply them in /etc/modprobe.d
• 371[05:27:44] <sney> and lspci -k will show you what modules your hardware is using
• 372[05:29:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1127
• 373[05:29:03] <burrows> Intel Corporation Celeron/Pentium Silver Processor High Definition Audio (rev 03)
• 374[05:29:25] <burrows> nothing mentions infrared
• 375[05:29:31] <somiaj> would a piece of electral/duck tape fix the issue....*hides*
• 376[05:29:52] <burrows> lol that's the best use for duck tape!
• 377[05:29:54] <somiaj> duct
• 378[05:30:07] <burrows> i call it duck tape
• 379[05:30:12] <somiaj> well it does fix anything
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• 381[05:31:58] <alex11> infrared... audio?
• 382[05:32:10] <sney> optical I assume
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• 384[05:32:29] <sney> also yes I would personally fix it with tape. probably electrical.
• 385[05:32:52] <burrows> it's a red light coming out of the motherboard...i think it's for audio
• 386[05:33:06] <burrows> it flashes when i play music
• 387[05:33:38] <sney> yep, that's toslink alright
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• 392[05:40:04] <burrows> accepted answer worked like a charm. replaced-url
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• 394[05:40:44] <brachamh_> wow...start job for raise network interface is waiting the whole alloted time this time
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• 396[05:41:14] <sney> ah, muting the optical out turns the light off. TIL. I figured it would just go solid.
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• 402[05:49:58] <brachamh_> oops, probably gonna wait the whole 5 minutes 12 seconds again
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• 418[06:13:46] <brachamh_> ok, so i'm finding this weird
• 419[06:15:18] <brachamh_> i have a script to "rfkill unblock wifi" and then "ifup wlan0". it unblocks the wifi, brings the interface up, but it doesn't connect
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• 422[06:15:40] <sney> huh you're using ifupdown? why not put the unblock command in /etc/network/interfaces?
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• 425[06:16:08] <sney> pre-up commands will run before the interface comes up
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• 427[06:17:12] <brachamh_> so just put the command ahead of the wireless interface section?
• 428[06:18:09] <sney> no, it goes in the section.
• 429[06:18:24] <sney> it's in the man page for interfaces
• 430[06:18:34] <brachamh_> ok i'll check it out, thanks!
• 431[06:23:05] <brachamh_> so...would this be correct? "iface wlan0 pre-up rfkill unblock wifi inet dhcp" ?
• 432[06:24:15] <sney> no, it's on a lower line
• 433[06:25:03] <brachamh_> oh, so "pre-up..." would be its own line?
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• 435[06:25:40] <sney> yes. below the wpa-* options I think, but play with it
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• 439[06:25:57] <somiaj> needs to also be indended I think to make sure it is included in the right stanza
• 440[06:26:16] <brachamh_> right, same as the wpa lines
• 441[06:26:16] <sney> yeah. this is all in interfaces(5) ofc
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• 446[06:27:25] <brachamh_> yes i just find that alot of the documentation doesn't explicitly explain proper formatting
• 447[06:28:41] <brachamh_> i'm not the greatest with this stuff so i prefer examples haha
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• 465[07:00:08] <gry> brachamh_: for each missing documentation you can file a bug report, and include a working example.
• 466[07:00:16] <gry> brachamh_: this will help to add your example to documentation.
• 467[07:00:27] <gry> brachamh_: it will be a very small bug report, but it is ok, the bug tracker won't break.
• 468[07:00:55] <brachamh_> good to know, thank you
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• 473[07:04:24] <brachamh_> i think i'm going to have to call it a night again and carry on tomorrow evening
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• 810[12:18:33] <independent> replaced-url
• 811[12:19:48] <ratrace> independent: wrong channel
• 812[12:20:39] <Haohmaru> h4x0r linux
• 813[12:21:03] <independent> it works on Debian
• 814[12:21:05] <independent> ratrace
• 815[12:21:18] *** Joins: Ceber (~cerberus@replaced-ip)
• 816[12:21:20] <Haohmaru> what works on debian?
• 817[12:21:27] <independent> my repo
• 818[12:21:45] <Haohmaru> your wallpaper?
• 819[12:22:13] <independent> replaced-url
• 820[12:22:15] <independent> this
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• 823[12:22:42] <ratrace> !kali
• 824[12:22:42] <dpkg> Kali Linux replaced-url
• 825[12:22:44] <Haohmaru> commands to install random sh*t from the internet?
• 826[12:22:50] <ratrace> independent: this is wrong channel for that.
• 827[12:22:51] <Haohmaru> this is not encouraged here
• 828[12:22:51] <independent> replaced-url
• 829[12:23:01] <independent> replaced-url
• 830[12:23:02] <Haohmaru> independent are you listening?
• 831[12:23:12] <Haohmaru> unplunge your ears
• 832[12:23:39] * hwm4rgs grabs popcorn
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• 835[12:24:26] <Haohmaru> playing russian roulette also "works" .. for some time
• 836[12:24:37] <ratrace> clear out your eyes with dihydrogen monoxide
• 837[12:29:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1132
• 838[12:29:12] <independent> replaced-url
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• 840[12:29:44] <Haohmaru> independent do i need this?
• 841[12:29:52] <Haohmaru> dafuq is kali-termux?
• 842[12:30:35] <independent> termux apk android
• 843[12:30:52] <Haohmaru> and what the akchual f*** is that?
• 844[12:31:15] <independent> termux is an Android linux shell
• 845[12:31:20] <independent> with apt
• 846[12:31:35] <Haohmaru> okay, i'm not interested
• 847[12:32:06] <Haohmaru> independent so, do you have any debian questions?
• 848[12:32:35] *** Quits: Ericounet (~Eric@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
• 849[12:33:17] <independent> why is Debian dead?
• 850[12:33:36] *** Quits: gry (~test@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
• 851[12:33:43] <Haohmaru> who told you this?
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• 853[12:33:54] <independent> I know he's dead
• 854[12:34:04] <Haohmaru> "he" ?
• 855[12:34:20] <independent> Debian the author himself
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• 857[12:34:44] <Haohmaru> are you serious?
• 858[12:34:49] <independent> I am
• 859[12:35:14] <independent> so
• 860[12:35:21] <independent> why did he suicide?
• 861[12:35:25] <petn-randall> independent: "Debian" is the name of the distribution. There is no one named Debian.
• 862[12:35:33] <independent> I mean
• 863[12:35:40] <independent> the dude who made debian
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• 865[12:35:51] <petn-randall> independent: Look it up on wikipedia.
• 866[12:36:06] <petn-randall> independent: Do you have a Debian support question?
• 867[12:36:34] <independent> you guys are no joke
• 868[12:37:36] <Haohmaru> independent and try not to advertise your stuff if it involves downloading and installing random stuff from the internetz
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• 870[12:38:02] <independent> what u mean by "random"
• 871[12:38:04] <Haohmaru> if you've made something great, perhaps, get it into the debian official repositories like everybody else
• 872[12:38:21] <Haohmaru> ..so that people can install it like they install their other stuff
• 873[12:38:47] <petn-randall> !offtopic
• 874[12:38:47] <dpkg> #debian is primarily a support channel for Debian users. Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and take longer discussions and non-support questions to #debian-offtopic. Imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day.
• 875[12:38:49] *** grobi is now known as grobi1
• 876[12:39:27] <independent> it's a fork of an official Kali Linux NetHunter bash script and it works on 4 architectures and debian and ubuntu
• 877[12:39:34] <independent> so why is my stuff random
• 878[12:39:37] <independent> and not great
• 879[12:40:22] <Haohmaru> so you come in #debian and post your link 4 times
• 880[12:40:25] <petn-randall> independent: Again, how is that related to Debian?
• 881[12:40:40] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o jelly
• 882[12:41:33] <independent> whatever you guys never appreciate anything
• 883[12:41:37] <jelly> independent, avoid advertising in here. We have a #debian-offtopic to chat and tell people about nifty stuff
• 884[12:41:42] <independent> fuck off already
• 885[12:41:52] <Haohmaru> no, u
• 886[12:42:05] *** Parts: independent (~independe@replaced-ip) (requested by jelly (independent))
• 887[12:43:11] <jelly> Haohmaru, best to avoid engaging when they start with obvious crap like "why did Ian suicide"
• 888[12:43:30] <Haohmaru> he didn't say Ian, yet he said "he"
• 889[12:44:17] <azeem> it was still obvious crap
• 890[12:44:22] <Haohmaru> of course
• 891[12:44:40] <ratrace> should've cleared out their eyes with dihydrogen monoxide.
• 892[12:45:13] <petn-randall> TBH I was still figuring out if he was clueless or just trolling.
• 893[12:45:17] <ratrace> and mouth with some sodium stearate.
• 894[12:45:35] <another> jeebus. there are weird people on the internet
• 895[12:45:48] <Haohmaru> another u have no idea..
• 896[12:46:04] <hwm4rgs> can't believe this channel is free
• 897[12:46:16] <hwm4rgs> that screenfetch dude yesterday and now this
• 898[12:46:17] <petn-randall> He advertises himself as "self-taught devsecops and top 250 call of duty player" :D
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• 902[12:46:37] <Haohmaru> his wallpaper tells everything
• 903[12:46:48] <Haohmaru> and the programs he has ;P~
• 904[12:46:51] <jelly> petn-randall, so they're moving up
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• 906[12:48:00] <another> WTF! This dude has some very weird repos...
• 907[12:48:42] <jelly> and you can all discuss it with the dude in #debian-offtopic, while keeping #debian for Debian
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• 909[12:49:37] <another> alright, let's close this topic
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• 912[12:52:12] <Haohmaru> i (re-installed) debian10 on my music PC, this time more seriously, installed ardour and stuff, and the fancy audio interface works.. it looks promising so far, realtime priority for the audio stuff, kewl
• 913[12:52:27] <Haohmaru> maybe i'm close to ditching crapdows finally
• 914[12:52:50] <Haohmaru> \o/
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• 941[13:20:42] <diabel> Hello
• 942[13:20:49] <diabel> I've got debian10
• 943[13:21:26] <diabel> bonding not works :( (thesame configuration on debian9), is something changed in debian 10?
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• 945[13:23:57] <ratrace> diabel: please define "not works" with a specific error message or behaviour
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• 947[13:24:30] <diabel> have no network, even bond0 has state "UP"
• 948[13:24:45] <diabel> the configuration of network is well
• 949[13:25:18] <ratrace> diabel: please pastebin your configs
• 950[13:25:21] <ratrace> !paste
• 951[13:25:21] <dpkg> Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: replaced-url
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• 960[13:31:36] <diabel> ratrace: replaced-url
• 961[13:31:57] <diabel> that is my last config... i tested many of interfaces configuration
• 962[13:32:26] <diabel> this config give me faild when /etc/init.d/network restart :/
• 963[13:33:56] <ratrace> diabel: first, can you confirm the physical interfaces are named the same, eno1 and eno2?
• 964[13:34:17] <diabel> yes
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• 966[13:34:46] <ratrace> second, not sure if allow-hotplug is conflicting with auto, so I'd remove that, it's not compatible with what you want anyway
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• 968[13:38:44] <diabel> ok
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• 970[13:42:08] <ratrace> diabel: otherwise your config should just work. assuming the switch support 802.3ad link aggregation, but if you say it worked before, then I suppose it should
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• 972[13:42:30] <diabel> ratrace: after comment bond-master bond0 bond-mode4 at eno1 and eno2 sections
• 973[13:42:46] <diabel> and do the ifdown eno1/eno2 ifup eno1/2 ifdown bond0 ifup bond0
• 974[13:42:58] <diabel> have "No slave joined bond0 confinuing anyway"
• 975[13:43:06] <diabel> continuing*
• 976[13:43:13] <ratrace> try restarting the network as as whole, via networking.service
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• 1024[14:37:00] <diabel> ratrace: no results at all :(
• 1025[14:37:26] <ratrace> diabel: is bonding kernel module loaded? modprobe | grep bond
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• 1030[14:41:17] <Haohmaru> "Bond. Grep Bond."
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• 1034[14:43:16] <ratrace> Haohmaru: you want that network shaken, not stirred?
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• 1042[14:56:41] <another> interface index 007
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• 1075[15:27:44] <tramplefoot> does bluetooth audio work without pulseaudio?
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• 1087[15:32:34] <another> not really
• 1088[15:32:49] <another> bluez 4 or 5 dropped alsa support
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• 1090[15:33:43] <another> though there are some hacks around it, that might work
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• 1092[15:34:48] <tramplefoot> uh :/
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• 1094[15:35:38] <tramplefoot> for some reason my phone automatically switches to a2dp mod
• 1095[15:35:55] <tramplefoot> mode, which requires a pulseaudio sink to function
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• 1109[15:57:46] <Ede|Popede> i just had keyboard issues with screen again, happened a few time already, started maybe some month ago. i defined F11/F12 to switch to prev/next tab and now again the keys only produced a tilde. sending the program to bg (C-a C-z) and recalling it solved it another time. is there some kind of logic in its behaviour?
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• 1139[16:28:36] <subcool> Stupid Q. - i am trying to identify a USB device, address and path for Vbox. - but - im not good at this. lol. - i have followed /dev/serial/by-id and path - but i am also seeing that there are other paths. - But appears things changed in debian 10- .
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• 1141[16:29:16] <NetTerminalGene> ,v firefox-esr
• 1142[16:29:17] <judd> Package: firefox-esr on amd64 -- jessie: 52.8.1esr-1~deb8u1; stretch-updates: 60.6.3esr-1~deb9u1; jessie-security: 68.9.0esr-1~deb8u2; stretch: 68.10.0esr-1~deb9u1; stretch-proposed-updates: 68.10.0esr-1~deb9u1; stretch-security: 68.10.0esr-1~deb9u1; buster: 68.10.0esr-1~deb10u1; bullseye: 68.11.0esr-1; buster-proposed-updates: 68.12.0esr-1~deb10u1; buster-security:
• 1143[16:29:18] <judd> 68.12.0esr-1~deb10u1; sid: 78.2.0esr-1
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• 1149[16:36:50] <subcool> ive seen i should be able to acceess it via /devices - cant. I ahve also tried /sys/class - but thats not for non-HDD/SDD -
• 1150[16:37:08] <subcool> sory to be so ignorant.. but- it would be helpful to have my search narrowed.
• 1151[16:37:42] <subcool> mos of my help guides are for USB storage.. -
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• 1154[16:39:02] <subcool> i am noticing that i cant use the /dev/input/by-id
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• 1170[16:57:14] <RoyK> subcool: anything interesting in lsusb?
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• 1177[16:59:44] <subcool> RoyK, its in there.
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• 1182[17:02:53] <RoyK> subcool: what's in dmesg if you reconnect the usb thingie?
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• 1188[17:08:41] <subcool> it says that is been blugged in a such. bu ti need an address
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• 1206[17:27:05] <another> unfortunately debian doesn't package lsusb.py
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• 1213[17:33:40] <RoyK> another: python3-libusb is in there, though and I guess you can crawl /sys/bus/usb/devices/
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• 1216[17:35:01] <doubletwist> When mirroring debian repos (using debmirror) - can use the same path for mirroring the primary repo and the security repos, or will they overstep each other?
• 1217[17:36:52] <somiaj> the package versions are different between the two, so I don't think there is any file conflicts in terms of packages. Unsure if the release files would though.
• 1218[17:37:24] <somiaj> doubletwist: is the point of this mirror to have a local mirror? would something like apt-cacher-ng suit your needs (in this case it can cache multile mirrors)
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• 1220[17:39:15] <doubletwist> somiaj: local mirror yes, but not as a 'proxy'
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• 1222[17:40:47] <somiaj> By same path are you meaning storing the mirror in the same location, or do you just want a single mirror that has the security packages included?
• 1223[17:42:38] <doubletwist> Yes, asking if I can point 'debmirror' to /my/mirror/path for both, or if I need to use separate dirs (and config in apache) such as /my/mirror/path/debian and /my/mirror/path/debsecurity or something and keep them separate.
• 1224[17:43:53] <somiaj> from what I see, a single path should work, and then the release files will be in /my/mirror/path/dists/ and the packages in /my/mirror/path/pool/
• 1225[17:43:54] <doubletwist> I'm getting the impression they need to be separate. Not a big deal, just wasn't sure
• 1226[17:44:16] <doubletwist> won't the base repo and security repo release files overwrite each other?
• 1227[17:44:17] <somiaj> I see some debmirror setups (found in google) where they are mirroring multiple releases in the same location
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• 1229[17:44:25] <doubletwist> ah
• 1230[17:44:35] <doubletwist> can you provide a link so I can see what theyare doing?
• 1231[17:44:38] <somiaj> no each release file will bein in /my/mirror/path/distss/release
• 1232[17:45:19] <somiaj> doubletwist: replaced-url
• 1233[17:45:23] <dvs> doubletwist, I think the packages are being put in the pool directory and the actual repos are softlinked to packages in pool\
• 1234[17:45:29] <somiaj> so you'll have buster and buster-security
• 1235[17:48:45] <somiaj> doubletwist: in their script, they just list DIST=buster,buster/updates -- I think the only issue I see with their script is they are using a single host, but the security mirrors are different. So I think that will be an issue to deal with, but should still be able to put them in a single place
• 1236[17:49:30] <doubletwist> I think I see. Thanks
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• 1242[17:51:24] <another> RoyK: i don't feel like implementing lsusb.py myself. it would be nice if it came packaged
• 1243[17:52:05] <somiaj> doubletwist: from debian.org docs, "The debian-security/ archives contain the security updates released by the Debian security team. While it sounds interesting to everyone, we do not recommend to our users to use mirrors to obtain security updates and instead ask them to directly download them from our distributed security.debian.org service. We recommend debian-security not be mirrored.", in general
• 1244[17:52:11] <somiaj> debian would prefer security patches all come through their secuity network -- if that matters to you replaced-url
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• 1246[17:52:19] <RoyK> another: what does it do that lsusb doesn't?
• 1247[17:53:08] <doubletwist> Well we need to mirror them locally. Only for internal consumption, this isn't to be a public mirror.
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• 1249[17:53:45] <another> colored, tree-structured output with usefull meta information
• 1250[17:54:10] <somiaj> doubletwist: Looks like you will have to run debmirror twice then, as you won't be able to get both off a single mirror, but I think you should be able to point them to the same location (maybe backup the mirror first before trying)
• 1251[17:54:18] <doubletwist> yeah that's not a problem
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• 1256[17:55:35] <somiaj> but the fact you can put multiple releases in the same location, I don't see why you can't also put security, but I would test it out, I can't seem to find any defininitve information that it is possible.
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• 1259[17:57:19] <somiaj> doubletwist: replaced-url
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• 1288[18:26:14] <grummund> Is there any command like isoinfo that will report volume size without all the cruft?
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• 1339[19:11:41] <oxek> running "xterm -into" gives me a Segmentation Fault. What's the proper way of reporting it - through debian bugreports or directly upstream, or both? (or neither and ignore it?)
• 1340[19:12:54] <oxek> hmm, apparently it is fixed in the xterm version included in debian-testing, so it only exists in debian-stable
• 1341[19:13:22] <somiaj> oxek: if it is fixed in debian testing, that means there is probably already a bug report somewhere (or upstream fixed it). In any case it might not besomething that gets fixed in stable.
• 1342[19:13:26] <somiaj> ,v xterm
• 1343[19:13:27] <judd> Package: xterm on amd64 -- jessie: 312-2; stretch: 327-2; buster: 344-1; bullseye: 359-1; sid: 359-1
• 1344[19:13:36] <somiaj> ,check-backport xterm
• 1345[19:13:48] <judd> Backporting package xterm in sid→buster/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: debhelper-compat (= 13), autoconf-dickey (>= 2.52+20200111).
• 1346[19:13:50] <oxek> there are no backports of xterm, I had to do one myself
• 1347[19:14:02] <somiaj> ,v autoconf-dickey
• 1348[19:14:03] <judd> Package: autoconf-dickey on amd64 -- jessie: 2.52+20121002-2; stretch: 2.52+20150926-2; buster: 2.52+20181006-1; bullseye: 2.52+20200802-1; sid: 2.52+20200802-1
• 1349[19:14:11] <oxek> was pretty easy, backport autoconf-dickey and then all was good
• 1350[19:14:18] <somiaj> oxek: so you were able to backport it, I would just use that then.
• 1351[19:14:56] <somiaj> oxek: there are processes wich allow certain bugs to be fixed in stable, but unsure if this bug would fit that, and if anyone would take the time to write a targeted fix (it could be an option few use)
• 1352[19:15:10] <oxek> it definitely is an option few use
• 1353[19:16:15] <somiaj> I don't see any info about this fix in the debian changelog, so must be something upstream dealt with.
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• 1355[19:16:53] <somiaj> I would personally suggest just using your backport if you need that option, as due to the limited use case unsure if the debian matainers would want to take the time to write a targeted fix for stable.
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• 1357[19:17:21] <oxek> understood, thank you for explaining
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• 1370[19:29:58] <jim> is there a way to update the database lspci uses to identify devices?
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• 1377[19:31:39] <oxek> jim: update-pciids worked for me a long time ago
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• 1380[19:34:11] <oxek> just checked, still works
• 1381[19:34:20] <oxek> run it with root privileges
• 1382[19:34:20] <jim> thanks
• 1383[19:35:03] <oxek> I don't know if it's the proper debian way of doing things /usr/ should be controlled by the package manager only
• 1384[19:35:12] <oxek> (if I understand debian's design correctly)
• 1385[19:35:32] <oxek> and update-pciids overwrites /usr/share/misc/pci.ids
• 1386[19:36:35] <somiaj> ,v pciutils
• 1387[19:36:36] <judd> Package: pciutils on amd64 -- jessie: 1:3.2.1-3; buster: 1:3.5.2-1; stretch: 1:3.5.2-1; bullseye: 1:3.7.0-2; sid: 1:3.7.0-2
• 1388[19:36:54] <somiaj> any update to the pciutils will overwrite that file (problem with editing stuff in /usr/ is it gets overwritten)
• 1389[19:37:02] <oxek> how come judd ordered buster before stretch?
• 1390[19:37:26] <somiaj> Maybe backporting pciutils would be more proper, though that package doesn't seem to see many updates in stable
• 1391[19:37:39] <somiaj> oxek: might be ordering by version number, then althabettically by release.
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• 1393[19:37:44] <somiaj> I'm unsure on that, just a guess
• 1394[19:37:56] <somiaj> ,check-backport pciutils
• 1395[19:37:57] <judd> Backporting package pciutils in sid→buster/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: debhelper-compat (= 13), pci.ids (>= 0.0~2019.11.10-2).
• 1396[19:38:19] <somiaj> ,v pci.ids
• 1397[19:38:20] <judd> Package: pci.ids on amd64 -- bullseye: 0.0~2020.08.19-1; sid: 0.0~2020.08.19-1
• 1398[19:38:47] <somiaj> seems bullseye has split the pci.ids off into a a seperate package, might make updates a bit easier in the future for backporting.
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• 1400[19:39:28] <oxek> perhaps one day we'll really have debian-volatile repo
• 1401[19:39:48] <somiaj> most likely not, debian-cut seemed to go no-where
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• 1403[19:40:19] <oxek> never heard of debian-cut
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• 1405[19:40:40] <oxek> "Constantly Usable Testing"
• 1406[19:40:41] <somiaj> with backports and the goals of a debian release, there really hasn't been that much desire to give security support to a rolling release style. Debian-cut was one such proposal, but it never made any headway
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• 1408[19:40:51] <n4dir> the dude behind MX packaging, i think it was stevepusser, does a lot of backporting
• 1409[19:40:59] <somiaj> yea, basically montly snapshots of testing, with slightly more 'testing' than testing has.
• 1410[19:41:47] <oxek> still, databases like pci.ids are perhaps too volatile for debian-stable
• 1411[19:41:55] <n4dir> not sure how well that still works now they turned away from systemd, but back in the days it was very reliable
• 1412[19:41:57] <oxek> and all sorts of other non-executables too
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• 1415[19:45:28] <oxek> somiaj: looks like pci.ids is already used in buster - it's a build dependency of pciutils
• 1416[19:46:14] <oxek> (and it is broken right now, because pci.ids is not installable on buster)
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• 1421[19:47:51] <oxek> builddeps:pciutils : Depends: pci.ids (>= 0.0~2019.11.10-2) but it is not installable
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• 1425[19:49:45] <oxek> nevermind, misconfiguration on my end
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• 1431[19:55:35] <bern> Hi all, is there a special place for Debian on Raspberry Pi or should I ask in here?
• 1432[19:56:36] <abrotman> is it Debian or Raspbian ?
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• 1434[19:58:00] <bern> I think it's a bastard child of both. sources.list is Debian though.
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• 1436[19:58:49] <bern> It's running "raspberrypi-kernel", I'm wanting something newer than 4.19. Will "apt install -t buster-backports linux-image-armmp" do what I'm hoping?
• 1437[19:59:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1160
• 1438[19:59:08] <somiaj> bern: almost sounds like raspbian (raspbian does use debian sources with their kernel)
• 1439[19:59:12] <somiaj> !raspbian
• 1440[19:59:12] <dpkg> Raspberry Pi OS (previously called Raspbian) is a distribution <based on Debian> made specifically for the <Raspberry Pi>. Raspbian is not Debian and it is not supported in #debian. Please use #raspbian (or #raspberrypi) on irc.freenode.net for support. replaced-url
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• 1443[19:59:54] <bern> OK, I was only looking for a new kernel though.
• 1444[19:59:55] <somiaj> anyways, it is hard to get support when mixing, but raspbian will use debian sources, really we would only support it if you were installing pure debian (kernel and everything), but there aren't many here who I think have expreience with debian on arm.
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• 1447[20:00:14] <somiaj> there is a debian arm channel on irc.oftc.net
• 1448[20:00:49] <bern> Once upon a time I was able to build my own kernel .deb, but around 5.1 it simply stopped working. Again possibly a Raspbian thing.
• 1449[20:01:11] <bern> On pure Debian on RPi do you get a bootloader with the ability to choose which kernel to boot?
• 1450[20:02:13] <bern> It's a bit fiddly for me to join a new IRC server, but no worries if you don't/won't/can't answer my question here.
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• 1455[20:07:17] <ratrace> bern: grub-mkconfig (which is called by update-grub) by default does so all kernels and initrds in /boot are detected and added to the list
• 1456[20:07:53] <ratrace> bern: so basically, just put the kernel and its initrd, following certain naming convetions, in /boot, and update-grub
• 1457[20:09:19] <ratrace> the naming conventions are listed in /etc/grub.d/10_linux, there's a loop that tries out a number of initrd naming patterns. as for kernel, it's always vmlinuz-$(uname -r)
• 1458[20:10:19] <ratrace> this applies to debian and any distro using grub that doesn't alter this default behavior
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• 1471[20:25:43] <bern> Thanks ratrace, that's given me something to chew on.
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• 1480[20:40:26] <somiaj> bern: how are you building your kernel? the old make-kpkg or old methods though still work, aren't as useful as just using the 'make deb-pkg' that is now in the kernel tree is probably the best method.
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• 1483[20:41:33] <somiaj> also kernels are way harder to configure now than ever before, I kinda stopped rolling my own kernel about 3.x due to the amount of options i had to keep track of, and the fact computers and debian kernels just worked and the gain from rolling my own was small (though I could see some gain on arm systems)
• 1484[20:41:44] <bern> somiaj: I forget (it was a few years ago), I've definitely tried make-kpkg but I might have more recently tried make deb-pkg.
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• 1486[20:42:49] <bern> I think my problems are raspbian-related. grub isn't even installed. I think the RasPi federation cut a lot of corners to get something out of the door, and it annoys several distro folks.
• 1487[20:42:50] <somiaj> I meant to say computer speed these days, the optiziation you get from a self rolled kernel is sometimes not as noticible as times past.
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• 1491[20:43:18] <somiaj> well the r-pi and arm boards often boot differntly, so grub may not be needed.
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• 1493[20:43:33] <somiaj> I haven't done much with these systems, except just dd the raspbian image on my old pi I never use
• 1494[20:43:38] <bern> yep. I wanted something small then. Now I want RFC5549. Picky, me ;)
• 1495[20:44:10] <somiaj> but they don't boot the same, but there are ways to install debian proper on certain r-pi devices (They need to be arm v7+ I think)
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• 1497[20:44:27] <ratrace> anyone knows how to get deterministically named md devices for mdadm. sometimes is't /dev/md/name_i_gave_it and sometimes (esp. after reboot) it's /dev/md/hostname:name_I_gave_it, even though /etc/mdadm/mdadm.conf specifically states the former....
• 1498[20:44:29] <bern> Fedora boots well on the RPis I have. I'm sure pure Debian will equally be easy to use. But I have a son who likes Minecraft :|
• 1499[20:44:36] <somiaj> but you may find a more specific arm support channel on irc.oftc.net would be able to help if you really want to use debian proper over raspbian.
• 1500[20:44:52] <bern> yep. thanks somiaj, apologies for the noise here.
• 1501[20:45:14] <somiaj> really raspbian is a nice compermise, as it is easy to get up and running, and is mostly debian, it is just not supported here.
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• 1504[20:46:36] <bern> ratrace: can you avoid your problem by referring to things on your md devices by UUID?
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• 1506[20:47:18] <dD__> How can I make an apache server block a particular extension for all of my virtualhosts?
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• 1509[20:48:10] <ratrace> bern: in this particular case I need the md block device itself
• 1510[20:48:26] <ratrace> and it annoys me that sometimes it's with and sometimes without hostname under /dev/md/
• 1511[20:48:54] <bern> No idea, then, sorry.
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• 1513[20:49:28] <ratrace> dD__: #httpd might be a better place to ask
• 1514[20:49:57] <dD__> thanks!
• 1515[20:54:11] <somiaj> dD__: you can can remove the link from /etc/apache2/mods-enabled, which the a2dismod modname does
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• 1518[20:54:31] <somiaj> here I"m assuming you mean module when you say extension
• 1519[20:55:18] <greycat> oh.. hm... that's possible.
• 1520[20:55:39] <sney> I was reading it as file extension
• 1521[20:55:43] <greycat> me too
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• 1523[20:56:22] <sney> you can definitely blackhole certain file extension requests in apache2, I've done it before, but I'd have to look up how and we already sent them to the apache channel
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• 1546[21:27:41] <bzed> BlueMatt: sooonish. will also take some time as it needs to go through the NEW queue and require a transition...
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• 1559[21:36:03] <BlueMatt> bzed: cool. thanks. no rush, just curious if it was on your radar :)
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