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3 [00:06:07] <aliray> hi/ I'm trying to run ucblogo on my
server. Unfortunatly it depends on wx widgets and I get an error
message: "Error: Unable to initialize GTK+, is DISPLAY set
properly?"
4 [00:06:22] <aliray> Is it possible to force it to run without
graphical display?
5 [00:08:51] <Brigo> aliray, how do yoo launch it?
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9 [00:09:44] <aliray> I run "logo <file>". The
file itself ends with "BYE" instruction
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13 [00:10:50] <aliray> bug seems similar to
replaced-url
14 [00:10:51] <judd> Bug
replaced-url
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16 [00:11:14] <aliray> Brigo, ^^
17 [00:12:37] <Brigo> aliray, i just didn¡t read your
questiong carefully enough, i don't even know what ucblogo is.
Sorry :)
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23 [00:16:59] <aliray> Brigo, fyi a LOGO language interpreteur.
I guess I could make the question less specific by asking if it is
possible to run a graphical without graphical display
24 [00:17:41] <jmcnaught> aliray: I took a look at the ucblogo
user manual and it mentions a LOGOPLATFORM variable that can be set
to "Unix-Nographics"
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27 [00:20:07] <aliray> jmcnaught, interesting
28 [00:22:47] <aliray> jmcnaught, is it something to set at
compiletime?
29 [00:25:38] <jmcnaught> aliray: I thought they were talking
about an environment variable but I just tried it here and
'LOGOPLATFORM="Unix-Nographics" logo' still
launched in an X11 window
30 [00:26:18] <aliray> jmcnaught, same here
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65 [01:00:59] <aliray> jmcnaught, thanks for your help.
I'll look into it another time
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92 [01:20:01] <ikus060> ok, I've tested on the same
hwardware (my laptop) with Linux 4.19 (debian buster) and Linux 5.4
(debian bulleye). Connecting the CyberPower USB cable on 5.4 connect
and disconnect. While 4.19 connected and stay connected
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108 [01:32:17] <sney> ikus060: bullseye hasn't had 5.4 in
months, you may want to test with something current. see what
happens with the 5.8 in buster-backports, for instance
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110 [01:33:57] <ikus060> sney: sry, I've sent it to the
wrong channel. That was to test a specific problem I have where the
CyberPower USB stay connected only for 7 sec
111 [01:34:10] <ikus060> This happen on Proxmox server (running
linux 5.4)
112 [01:34:15] <sney> ah
113 [01:34:35] <ikus060> It running linux 5.4 on a debian buster
(from backport)
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115 [01:35:03] <ikus060> While when testing with 4.19, I
don't have the same issue. Now I just don't know how to
debug and fix this
116 [01:35:05] <roycroft> hello, folks
117 [01:35:23] <roycroft> i have qemu/kvm installed on my laptop
now, and can build virtual machines to my heart's content
118 [01:35:33] <roycroft> and they even perform decently
119 [01:35:37] <roycroft> so i am happy about that
120 [01:35:49] <ikus060> roycroft: Thanks for sharing your joy :D
121 [01:36:02] <roycroft> on my macs, with vmware fusion, i can
share folders between the host and the guest machines
122 [01:36:05] <sney> ikus060: well, if it's proxmox
exclusive, you should definitely stick with the proxmox channel. if
not, try with standard debian on 5.8 and see if it persists. and
debian has a kernel bisecting procedure to track down the bad commit
(and then report the bug and fix it)
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124 [01:36:20] <roycroft> i need to do that on the debian laptop,
but i don't see an obvious mechanism with qemu/virt-machine to
do that
125 [01:36:29] <roycroft> am i missing something or is it not
straightforward to do?
126 [01:36:35] <ikus060> kvm is performing very well. I've
made some performance testing
127 [01:37:01] <roycroft> and joy should always be shared
128 [01:37:16] <sney> roycroft: put a samba server on your host,
access from guests
129 [01:37:21] <roycroft> with the hope that it is contagious
130 [01:37:21] <ikus060> sney: I've testing with debian lice
CD so far, so I can confirm it's not proxmox specific
131 [01:37:31] <sney> (or nfs, though nfs is iffy if you reboot
ever)
132 [01:37:36] <roycroft> that's what i anticipated the
answer woudl be, sney
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134 [01:37:54] <roycroft> and the primary guest that will need to
share files will be running windows 10 pro, not enterprise
135 [01:38:03] <roycroft> so nfs is right out unless i get some
third-party stuff for that
136 [01:38:08] <roycroft> but smb will work
137 [01:38:58] <roycroft> i need to use autocad and solidworks
and integrate those files with stuff i do on mac os/linux
138 [01:39:08] <roycroft> so they can all easily live in the same
git repository
139 [01:39:35] <sney> ikus060: try with a testing livecd if you
haven't,
replaced-url
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141 [01:39:42] <roycroft> unless someone wants to make freecad
finally useful, in which case i can consider dumping the commercial
cad apps
142 [01:39:51] <roycroft> but i'm not holding my breath
waiting for that
143 [01:40:02] <roycroft> if i were i'd have died of oxygen
starvation many many years ago
144 [01:40:31] <sney> the ideal contributor to a project like
that is someone who understands the proprietary competitors and
wants an alternative, i.e. you
145 [01:40:51] <ikus060> sney: I will give it a shot
146 [01:40:52] <sney> waiting for other people to do it is a
straight train to hypoxia though, I agree
147 [01:40:54] <roycroft> i would not be the ideal contributor
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149 [01:41:11] <roycroft> the project needs money
150 [01:41:18] <roycroft> but they won't go look for it
151 [01:41:24] <roycroft> i'd be willing to help them find
funding
152 [01:41:34] <roycroft> but i'm not much of a coder these
days
153 [01:41:42] <roycroft> i never really was a great coder
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155 [01:43:42] <roycroft> the real problem is that the
maintainers don't see to be interested in getting an infusion
of cash to get the project moving
156 [01:44:02] <roycroft> they seem more interested in just
making little fixes here and there and never making real progress
157 [01:44:10] <sney> sounds like someone should light the
proverbial fire
158 [01:44:12] <roycroft> anyway, i'll set up smb and do the
shares that way
159 [01:44:23] <roycroft> it's frustrating because it's
*almost* useful
160 [01:44:26] <roycroft> but it's been that way for years
161 [01:44:52] <roycroft> this is life in the universe of open
source code
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163 [01:45:11] <ikus060> roycroft: monetizing opensource is not
that easy to be honest
164 [01:46:18] <roycroft> this particular app i think would not
be that difficult
165 [01:46:29] <roycroft> an awful lot of people would be
interested
166 [01:47:03] <ikus060> developer are not businessman, seller,
marketers, etc
167 [01:47:08] <roycroft> but yes, i understand that it's
not as simple as setting up a gofundme and waiting for the cash to
fall out of the sky
168 [01:47:52] <ikus060> I'm working part time on opensource
project for year now and I'm starting to monetize it with help
of a team to promote the project
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173 [01:56:23] <ikus060> well, latest testing live CD is not usb
bootable
174 [01:56:25] <ikus060> :/
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176 [01:57:46] <sney> weird, sometimes the testing isos are
broken otherwise but usually they still boot, heh
177 [01:58:30] <ikus060> I've download this one:
debian-live-testing-amd64-standard
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179 [01:59:45] <ikus060> Will try again with
debian-testing-amd64-netinst.iso
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185 [02:08:29] <ikus060> same problem...
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188 [02:09:03] <sney> same booting problem, or same adapter
disconnect problem?...
189 [02:09:08] <sney> figures
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201 [02:19:17] <ikus060> Manage to make the iso working.
I've testing with linux 5.9 and I have the same issue
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203 [02:19:40] <ikus060> the USB disconnect after 7 sec
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213 [02:27:27] <roycroft> groovy
214 [02:27:45] <roycroft> windows 10 pro now has nfs client
services
215 [02:27:51] <roycroft> that was not formerly the case
216 [02:28:05] <dvs> radical
217 [02:28:24] <roycroft> it simplifies things a lot
218 [02:28:48] <roycroft> i don't like sharing the same
hierarchy using multiple protocols on my nas
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220 [02:29:07] <roycroft> and i did not want to have to copy
everything from the nas to the debian laptop, then nfs share it to
the windows vm
221 [02:29:16] <roycroft> now i can just nfs mount from the nas
directly
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223 [02:29:52] <roycroft> after i wait a week and a half for
windows updates to complete and for the nfs servics to be installed
:)
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232 [02:39:47] <trelane> with debian 10, I'm trying to mount
an NFSv3 volume. I continually get the following error no matter how
much I try to hint at mount that I want NFSv3. mount.nfs: requested
NFS version or transport protocol is not supported
233 [02:39:47] <trelane> # mount -t nfs -o nfsvers=3 IP:/mnt/tank
./test
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244 [02:48:40] <trelane> disregard, enduser gave me the wrong IP
245 [02:49:45] <roycroft> never attribute to faulty software that
which can be explained by user error :)
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247 [02:52:23] <trelane> roycroft, everything is user error for
sufficiently advanced qualities of user
248 [02:53:01] <dvs> anything over zero
249 [02:53:33] <roycroft> a belief i've held most of my life
is that laziness requires a lot of effort, as does lying
250 [02:53:44] <roycroft> and my boss of the past 20 years is a
perfect example of this
251 [02:54:12] <roycroft> he is too lazy to verify anything, so
when asked a question he invariably answers what he thinks may be
correct
252 [02:54:18] <roycroft> and is wrong much of the time
253 [02:54:34] <roycroft> requiring a lot of extra effort to
correct the thing he was wrong about
254 [02:54:58] <roycroft> it would be easier if, when asked, he
would actually look up the answer and provide the correct one the
first time
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315 [04:14:15] <uplime> does anyone know if there is a git-core
repo for debian? i see one for ubuntu, but not for debian
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318 [04:22:35] <Unit193> uplime: Do you mean the packaging repo?
Aka,
replaced-url
319 [04:23:47] <uplime> i think so, yeah. its been a while since
i've messed with this stuff, but that looks like what im after
320 [04:24:40] <uplime> basically im looking for a package repo
that i can add and then apt install git (but ideally the newer
version of git)
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323 [04:26:40] <Unit193> OK, well you can't add that to
sources.list...
324 [04:27:03] <uplime> yeah, oops, just realized that
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326 [04:28:00] <uplime>
replaced-url
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330 [04:31:38] <solrize> is there a simple way to find the newest
files in a directory tree? i.e. like ls -lRt but instead of showing
the different subdirectories separately, i want it to descend
through the entire tree to get the entire list of files at all
levels, then list those files most recent first
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333 [04:35:21] <solrize> nm find . -type f -print0 | xargs -0 ls
-lt | more is good enough for what i'm doing
334 [04:35:22] <solrize> thanks
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344 [04:59:37] <uplime> Unit193: apparently i was really
overthinking this. i just needed to enable buster-backports
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355 [05:03:48] <Unit193> uplime: Haha! Yes sometimes people
forget about that very useful repo.
356 [05:03:59] <stinkfist> which repo
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358 [05:04:32] <Unit193> -backports
359 [05:05:52] <stinkfist> i once ran an upgrade with backports
and that made my bluetooth work
360 [05:06:04] <stinkfist> still don't know what happened
361 [05:06:17] <uplime> yeah, this is great. i've now got in
my playbooks to auto enable
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363 [05:06:37] <stinkfist> blueman was just unusable
364 [05:06:37] <daniel-s> I think the current version of the
(testing) debian installer is broken.
365 [05:06:57] <daniel-s> I get "No kernel modules
available" within a few clicks of the installer.
366 [05:07:10] <sney> !testing installer
367 [05:07:10] <dpkg> Repeat after me: the testing installer is
for testing the <installer>, not for installing
<testing>. To install testing, do a minimal installation using
the <stable> installer and ask me about
<stable->testing>. Installer bugs should be filed against
the debian-installer pseudopackage.
replaced-url
368 [05:07:41] <daniel-s> Oh, I see
369 [05:08:23] <sney> so, you're probably right about it
being broken. I'm sure you just caught it mid-transition
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436 [07:28:20] <sgo11> Hi, I got a USB 3.0 drive box. When I
connect it to a PC which only has USB 2.0 ports, it doesn't
work. This is the dmesg
replaced-url
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444 [07:38:12] <towo^work> sgo11, this drive is witout separate
power?
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457 [07:51:23] <sgo11> towo^work: it's 4TB drive. It has a
separate power. thanks a lot for your reply.
458 [07:52:22] <towo^work> sgo11, but it looks like, on that usb
2 port it can't be readed correct
459 [07:52:43] <sgo11> I am not really sure about the true cause
of the problem. I tried to plug it to USB 2.0 port of the working
PC. It does not work either. That's why I thought it might be
the usb version issue.
460 [07:53:35] <sgo11> towo^work: I saw it disconnected first.
There is a line "USB disconnect" before reading errors.
461 [07:54:08] <towo^work> my suggestion, use by usb 3 card
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463 [07:55:18] <sgo11> towo^work: I have to use it with the PC
which does not have usb3 ports. If it can not be solved in the
software layer, I plan to buy a new usb drive box.
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466 [07:56:57] <towo^work> you can by a PCIe/PCI expansion card
with usb3
467 [07:57:02] <towo^work> *buy
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469 [07:58:54] <sgo11> towo^work: ok, thanks for the suggestion.
:)
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570 [09:40:39] <rcm888> Is there a chanse to extend keyboard
events by some means? pluggable modules? We need event for language
switch. Event should have set event, and input language ID.
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572 [09:40:44] <rcm888> *c
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576 [09:44:53] <krion> hello everyone, I try to have information
on a new behavior regarding zabbix-agent package, but link for
changelog is 404 on
replaced-url
577 [09:45:21] <krion> looks like now zabbix-sender is in
zabbix-agent package, hence break the upgrade if zabbix-sender is
already installed
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580 [09:47:46] <krion> Trying to get changelog for zabbix-agent
1:3.0.31+dfsg-0+deb9u1
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586 [09:57:10] <ksk> ,v zabbix-agent
587 [09:57:11] <judd> Package: zabbix-agent on amd64 -- jessie:
1:2.2.7+dfsg-2+deb8u3; jessie-security: 1:2.2.23+dfsg-0+deb8u1;
stretch: 1:3.0.7+dfsg-3; stretch-backports: 1:4.0.3+dfsg-2~bpo9+1;
buster: 1:4.0.4+dfsg-1; buster-backports: 1:5.0.4+dfsg-1~bpo10+1;
bullseye: 1:5.0.5+dfsg-1; sid: 1:5.0.5+dfsg-1
588 [09:57:30] <ksk> krion: where is that version from?
replaced-url
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591 [09:58:23] <ksk> You version is somehow higher than what we
know was released for stretch!?
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597 [10:04:18] <wyre> what am I using when I configure the
interfaces through /etc/network/interfaces file?
598 [10:04:41] <krion> ksk: stretch-updates I would say
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600 [10:04:50] <krion> from security.d.o
601 [10:05:12] <tomg> wyre, i think you mean the ifupdown package
602 [10:06:03] <ksk> yes, ifupdown.
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607 [10:09:05] <krion> ksk:
replaced-url
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610 [10:10:40] <jelly> ,v firefox-esr
611 [10:10:41] <judd> Package: firefox-esr on amd64 -- jessie:
52.8.1esr-1~deb8u1; stretch-updates: 60.6.3esr-1~deb9u1;
jessie-security: 68.9.0esr-1~deb8u2; stretch: 68.10.0esr-1~deb9u1;
stretch-proposed-updates: 68.10.0esr-1~deb9u1; stretch-security:
68.10.0esr-1~deb9u1; buster: 68.12.0esr-1~deb10u1; bullseye:
78.3.0esr-2; buster-proposed-updates: 78.5.0esr-1~deb10u1;
buster-security:
612 [10:10:42] <judd> 78.5.0esr-1~deb10u1; sid: 78.5.0esr-1
613 [10:11:25] <jelly> something's fucky with the bot,
stretch-security ought to be at 78.5.0esr-1~deb9u1
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627 [10:24:23] <krion> jelly: may be it's related to some
page on packages.debian.org returning 404
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653 [10:52:37] <rcm888> May be someone will eventually help me
with generating arbitrary events with plugging in modules?
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666 [11:01:18] <tachikomas> Hello debian chan. I am trying to
find a way to blacklist certain packages to use
"need-restart" while having an dist-upgrade. Any idea on
how i can do that ? Seems there is no straightforward way to do
that.
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668 [11:02:30] <CrystalMath> i don't think apt would
automatically restart your machine
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670 [11:02:49] <tachikomas> Its not the restart of the machine.
But the restart of the service.
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673 [11:03:43] <tachikomas> In case of a library or binary
upgrade i want to force certain packages not to be touched on an non
interactive way.
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680 [11:08:14] <jelly> !policy-rc.d
681 [11:08:14] <dpkg> [policy-rc.d] a mechanism to limit what
init scripts are run by maintainer scripts. See
replaced-url
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683 [11:08:34] <jelly> tachikomas: ^
684 [11:08:37] <tachikomas> Sweet
685 [11:08:45] <tachikomas> Thanks jelly
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815 [13:05:09] <Lope> how can I make a systemd service that runs
before everything else, when a shutdown begins?
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818 [13:05:55] <Lope> I'm having a problem, where my newly
installed system was shutting down super fast, but now that
there's a whole bunch of filesystem stuff going on and services
using them, basically the system has to exhaust the systemd timeout
in order to shut down
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820 [13:06:12] <Lope> Or I have to hit Ctrl-Alt-Delete a bunch of
times, and then it still waits and takes quite a while.
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822 [13:06:26] <NieDzejkob> I'm trying to get OpenCL working
on my AMD GPU. I installed mesa-opencl-icd, but clinfo doesn't
detect my GPU
823 [13:06:37] <Lope> I want to down the services myself for a
fast and graceful shutdown.
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825 [13:08:06] <NieDzejkob> Lope: instead of adding a service
that runs systemctl, I'd try to adjust the dependencies so that
systemd downs the services in the right order
826 [13:08:40] <Lope> NieDzejkob, I'd rather not have to
bugger around with the other services
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828 [13:08:54] <Lope> I like having "scripts" that I
can drop into a system that "just makes it work"
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831 [13:09:15] <Lope> I don't want to have to worry about
new versions of each service buggering around with their systemd
files and whatever.
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833 [13:09:23] <Lope> I'd rather go a level above them.
834 [13:10:59] <wrksx> Hey there
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841 [13:12:56] <wrksx> I have a debian system, with lightdm
installed and the lightdm service seems to be constantly restarting.
It is failing because no screen is connected to the computer, and
once a monitor is plugged in it starts successfully and stop
restarting over and over.
842 [13:13:54] <wrksx> Is there a known recipe to have the
service/ the x server start only when a monitor is plugged?
843 [13:14:06] <otisolsen70> I just created a new LUKS device on
Debian 10. I notice now, that the LUKS device created was LUKS v2
and not LUKS v1. It was my impression that LUKS2 was experimental.
Is Debian 10 defaults to LUKS2 a signal that Debian considers LUKS2
stable and production ready? Or is this not the case?
844 [13:14:45] <Brigo> Lope, here you have some examples:
replaced-url
845 [13:14:54] <Lope> otisolsen70, my impression is that luks2 is
pretty old
846 [13:15:41] <Lope> otisolsen70, since you're on debian
10, that's a stable release, it's only going to use stable
stuff unless you're using some backport package for cryptsetup
or whatever
847 [13:16:00] <Lope> Brigo, thanks bud
848 [13:16:24] <otisolsen70> Lope, that was my impression. And
also why I was surprised that it uses LUKS2
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852 [13:16:47] <Lope> <Lope> otisolsen70, my impression is
that luks2 is pretty old
853 [13:17:07] <Lope> but I'm not an expert. you can search
about the history of luks2 if you're interested.
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857 [13:17:30] <Lope> my layman's understanding is that luks
is just a wrapper sort of thing.
858 [13:17:40] <Lope> key management and whatever.
859 [13:17:53] <Lope> it's not the actual encryption.
860 [13:18:16] <Brigo> wrksx, it would be a nice thing, but i
don't know if it is even possible.
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863 [13:18:45] <wrksx> Brigo: damn that's bad news
864 [13:18:52] <wrksx> but thanks =)
865 [13:19:20] <Brigo> wrksx, well, i just stating i don't
know, maybe it is quite posible :)
866 [13:20:15] <wrksx> I'm pretty confident it IS possible,
but that might require some deeper knowledge than we have
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869 [13:23:28] <Brigo> wrksx, starting with udev.
870 [13:23:32] <Lope> wrksx, why not just hack it until you find
a better solution
871 [13:24:10] <wrksx> Lope: hack what? I'm not following
872 [13:24:15] <Lope> wrksx, you can learn about how to subscribe
to udev notifications or whatever
873 [13:24:26] <wrksx> Lope: yeah I might have a look at that
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875 [13:24:43] <Lope> failing that, you can write something that
somehow listens to udev stuff, check out inotify-tools for a very
hacky approach
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877 [13:25:08] <Brigo> this could be a start:
replaced-url
878 [13:25:10] <wrksx> I dunno much about udev, is this part of
the kernel?N
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880 [13:25:26] <Lope> alternatively you could do polling. Every 1
second you check if the monitor is plugged in, and if it is, start
lightdm, otherwise stop it.
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882 [13:25:48] <Brigo> it is a daemon that detects hardware
updates.
883 [13:25:49] <Lope> But I'd only do polling as a LAST
resort. Polling is ugly and wasteful.
884 [13:25:58] <wrksx> yeah simple aproach that coold probably
work (polling)
885 [13:26:33] <Lope> it's not really much harder to include
inotify-tools in your script, instead of polling
886 [13:26:48] <Lope> Assuming you can't do proper
subscriptions to udev stuff.
887 [13:27:01] <Lope> You could maybe also watch dmesg's
output etc.
888 [13:27:44] <wrksx> using udev seems a really clean approach
889 [13:29:18] <Lope> wrksx, please share a paste of the heart of
your udev solution once you get something working, I'd be
interested to see how you subscribe or whatever.
890 [13:29:50] <wrksx> Lope: will do if I try something
891 [13:29:59] <Lope> wrksx, thanks man!
892 [13:30:03] <wrksx> Found an interesting page
replaced-url
893 [13:30:12] <wrksx> the guys uses udev and inotify
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895 [13:33:01] <Lope> wrksx, looks cool. careful copy/pasting his
code, the double quotes are encoded all dodgy to some weird
character
896 [13:33:06] <Lope> they're "leaning"
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898 [13:34:28] <wrksx> Lope: I'm not a copy/paste guy, but
thanks for the heads up
899 [13:34:50] <wrksx> the method is interesting seems
900 [13:35:31] <Lope> wrksx, haha, so you copy with your eyes and
paste with your fingers
901 [13:35:37] <Brigo> even better:
replaced-url
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903 [13:36:18] <wrksx> Brigo: oh yeah nice ty
904 [13:36:32] <Brigo> hope it helps :)
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914 [13:46:29] <wyre> when I use 'loadkeys es' it says
that 'cannot open file es' in my debian live
915 [13:46:30] <Lope> Brigo, that is DOPE
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917 [13:46:32] <wyre> what can I do?
918 [13:46:51] <wyre> there is not /usr/share/keymaps file
apparently, why is this?
919 [13:47:00] <wyre> Brigo, o/
920 [13:47:27] <Brigo> hi, wyre long time no seing
921 [13:47:40] <wyre> yes! 😄
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923 [13:47:52] <wyre> what do you think about this loadkeys
problem? 🤔
924 [13:48:02] <Brigo> wyre, is it console-data installed?
925 [13:48:13] <wyre> Brigo, apparently I cannot install it
926 [13:49:40] <wyre> should I?
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949 [14:13:08] <wyre> Brigo, apt says that console-data is not
available 🤔
950 [14:14:13] <wyre> kbd is installed 🤔
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freedom from responsibility then Athens ceased to be free and was
never free again.” ~ Edward Gibbon (1737-1794) - Decline and
Fall of the Roman Empire, 1909)
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964 [14:28:31] <Brigo> wyre, check your sources, it should be, it
is a basic package
965 [14:28:54] <wyre> Brigo, in a live distro?
966 [14:29:22] <Brigo> wyre, then it is installed?
967 [14:29:23] <wyre> it's a basic live
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freedom from responsibility then Athens ceased to be free and was
never free again.” ~ Edward Gibbon (1737-1794) - Decline and
Fall of the Roman Empire, 1909)
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976 [14:42:02] <Lope> is there a terminal diff program that can
show colour and show the 2 files side by side?
977 [14:42:02] <Lope> colordiff foo1 foo2 works
978 [14:42:13] <Lope> but if I do `colordiff --difftype=diffy
foo1 foo2` it's NOT in color properly, and not side by side at
all :/
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984 [14:46:33] <wyre> Lope, vim
985 [14:46:51] <Lope> colordiff -y foo1 foo2
986 [14:47:00] <Lope> I can't be bothered to learn vim
987 [14:47:30] <wyre> Lope, if you want to color the output you
can use --color argument for diff
988 [14:47:43] <Lope> I want side by side and color
989 [14:47:50] <wyre> but you will not see the diffs side by side
990 [14:48:13] <wyre> Lope, vimdiff is the most appropriate tool
that I know
991 [14:50:01] <Lope> wyre, thanks bud
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993 [14:50:14] <Lope> colordiff -y does the job :)
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995 [14:51:45] <wyre> Lope, it's good to know it 😊
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998 [14:54:09] <wyre> Lope, apparently you have also sdiff
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1040 [15:29:07] <jpw> I am trying to establish a GRE tunnel with
another host (sending erspan traffic). I am creating the interface
`ip tunnel add gre1 mode gre remote w.x.y.z; ip link set up gre1`
and although i can see the gre traffic coming in on the primary
interface i'm unable to see the de-encapsulated traffic on the
gre interface. has anyone got any pointers how to troubleshoot this?
1041 [15:29:42] *** Quits: Lope (~Lopeuser@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
1042 [15:30:04] <jpw> a more detailed explanation of what I am
attempting to do can be found here...
replaced-url
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1065 [15:50:53] <wrksx> I managed to subscribe to udev events for
the monitors beeing plugged to the ports on the graphic cards
1066 [15:51:38] *** Quits: diogenes_ (~diogenes_@replaced-ip ) (Quit: vergissmeinnicht)
1067 [15:51:39] <wrksx> but these events are triggered by pair
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1069 [15:53:44] *** Joins: yetAnotherOwner (~theOwnerO@replaced-ip )
1070 [15:53:47] <yetAnotherOwner> hi folks
1071 [15:53:58] <yetAnotherOwner> whats happened to the official
#debian at IRCNet
1072 [15:54:02] <yetAnotherOwner> or wasnt it IRCNet?
1073 [15:54:10] <ksk> !irc.debian.org
1074 [15:54:10] <dpkg> irc.debian.org moved to OFTC on June 4th
2006, see
replaced-url
1075 [15:54:27] <ksk> yetAnotherOwner: ^
1076 [15:54:28] <yetAnotherOwner> ive got a problem with apt-get
and a very old debian version and requesting any help you are
willing to give:
1077 [15:54:42] <yetAnotherOwner> oh, moved server, thanks for the
nfo
1078 [15:54:43] <ksk> You can totally ask that in here.
1079 [15:55:00] <yetAnotherOwner> but back to my apt-get issue:
replaced-url
1080 [15:55:03] <yetAnotherOwner> any idea
1081 [15:55:04] <ksk> (imho this server is more active during EU
TZ, but some people have different opinions on that)
1082 [15:55:06] <yetAnotherOwner> thanks in advance
1083 [15:55:40] <ksk> prefix all apt-commads ith
"LANG=C" so it is not german :P
1084 [15:55:41] <yetAnotherOwner> i know debian 7 is pritty ould
and i will do some upgrade if i fix this first
1085 [15:55:43] *** Quits: filohuhum (~filohuhum@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1086 [15:55:52] <yetAnotherOwner> one moment ksk youre right
1087 [15:56:04] *** Quits: trewas (~trewas@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1088 [15:56:16] <yetAnotherOwner> all debian boxes i installed
recently i do in US ENG but this one was one of my firsts.
1089 [15:56:19] <ksk> Are you on Squeeze right now? Then you would
also need to add the squeeze-archive sources.list
1090 [15:57:00] <ksk> Never done that, but basicly: As soon as you
manage to have the right sources.list, upgrading (From one release
to the next) should also work with old(er) releases.
1091 [15:57:02] <greycat> !squeeze sources.list
1092 [15:57:02] <dpkg> A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for Debian
6.0 "Squeeze" has two lines: "deb
replaced-url
1093 [15:57:14] <ksk> Oh, that was updated accordingly. Neat!
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1095 [15:58:18] <yetAnotherOwner>
replaced-url
1096 [15:58:22] <yetAnotherOwner> there you are in english...
1097 [15:58:23] <yetAnotherOwner> ksk
1098 [15:59:02] <yetAnotherOwner> any idea how to get it to work?
1099 [15:59:23] <yetAnotherOwner> maybe something wrong in my
sources.list, i tryed to comment out anything i did before?
1100 [16:02:28] *** Joins: sinaowolabi (~Sina@replaced-ip )
1101 [16:02:42] <yetAnotherOwner> ill ask at debian.net
1102 [16:02:49] *** Joins: coconut (~coconut@replaced-ip )
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1104 [16:03:17] <yetAnotherOwner> thanks so far, will stay up a
couple houres if there is still someone willing to look into it thx
in advance
1105 [16:03:38] <unixbsd> Hello, in claws-mail, how to start it
with directly addressbook only?
1106 [16:04:36] <greycat> yetAnotherOwner: if you're supposed
to be on squeeze, your python is from an outside or future
repository, hence the problems.
1107 [16:04:44] <yetAnotherOwner> what is the direcltly address
book, ive used claws-mail a long time ago and found that the normal
address book was sufficiant...
1108 [16:05:06] <yetAnotherOwner> now i use roundcube and
squirrelmail and that thing from nextcloud :)
1109 [16:05:13] <greycat> on squeeze, python-dev is version
2.6.6-3+squeeze7 but yours is asking for python2.7-dev (>=
2.7.3-1~)
1110 [16:05:21] <unixbsd> yeah, how to display only this
addressbook only, without showing claws-mail emails...?
1111 [16:05:31] <yetAnotherOwner> greycat so i should uninstall it
and install it back again?
1112 [16:05:47] <yetAnotherOwner> or enable back something in the
sources, so do you know from which is it?
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1114 [16:05:56] <yetAnotherOwner> is it backport or forign and if
what exactly
1115 [16:06:04] <greycat> Ideally you avoid getting into a broken
state in the FIRST place. Are you on squeeze? Or not?
1116 [16:06:10] <yetAnotherOwner> otherwiese ill test everything
befor removing it and risking braking sth
1117 [16:06:19] *** Joins: twobitsprite (~isaac.fre@98.122.129.103)
1118 [16:06:35] <yetAnotherOwner> yea i know now but as i
mentioned before it was one of my first systems that i messed ub
pritty mouch
1119 [16:06:47] *** Quits: NieDzejkob (~quassel@replaced-ip##) (Quit: ##replaced-url
1120 [16:07:16] <yetAnotherOwner> first i used xammp, then i
switched to apache2 and no i only want to get some cert-bot
installed without upgrading the system to antother version and
braking more then i can fix in one day...
1121 [16:07:47] *** Joins: JohnML (~john1@replaced-ip )
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1123 [16:07:58] <yetAnotherOwner> i know xampp and old debian
versions on production systems are not a good idea
1124 [16:08:14] <yetAnotherOwner> if i only could remember the
reason for installing python on the first place
1125 [16:08:23] <greycat> on wheezy, python-dev depends on
"python (= 2.7.3-4+deb7u1), python2.7-dev (>=
2.7.3-1~)"
1126 [16:08:32] <yetAnotherOwner> ive got php, nodejs, this other
thing but running local and noty system wide
1127 [16:08:37] <greycat> are you in a state where you're
halfway upgraded from squeeze to wheezy?
1128 [16:08:49] <yetAnotherOwner> so i should enable wheezy back
from the soruces.list
1129 [16:08:58] <yetAnotherOwner> yea i tryed to update once
1130 [16:09:05] <yetAnotherOwner> you mean upgraded from 7 to 8
1131 [16:09:20] <yetAnotherOwner> i am getting confused with all
that codenames i dont familiaryze
1132 [16:09:21] <greycat> No, I mean from 6 to 7.
1133 [16:09:29] <ksk> yetAnotherOwner: the grey cat spawned that
faqtoid for you. You also did not answer my "are you on
Squeeze?" Question (since you seem to be missing
archive/squeeze sources.list lines..)
1134 [16:09:29] <yetAnotherOwner> ive got a broken name mamory in
my brain
1135 [16:09:31] <yetAnotherOwner> omg
1136 [16:09:36] <yetAnotherOwner> to 7..
1137 [16:09:40] <ksk> oh, wall of text, nevermind me.
1138 [16:09:49] <greycat> you appear to be stuck halfway between 6
and 7
1139 [16:10:06] <yetAnotherOwner> so you want to tell me my system
is infact not 7 at all but something between 6 or 7
1140 [16:10:24] <yetAnotherOwner> o k which kind of an idiot i
have bin on theese days
1141 [16:10:27] *** Quits: \\Mr_C\\ (~mrc@replaced-ip ) (K-Lined)
1142 [16:10:36] <yetAnotherOwner> but i guess that gives me anough
to fix it, let me try...
1143 [16:10:40] <yetAnotherOwner> thanks alot so farr
1144 [16:10:43] <yetAnotherOwner> *faar
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1148 [16:11:07] <greycat> it would have helped if you had actually
*run* the cat /etc/debian_version command and shown its output,
instead of canceling it...
1149 [16:11:20] <yetAnotherOwner> i run it
1150 [16:11:26] <no_gravity> Is debian by default installing
systemd-resolved and puts 127.0.0.53 into /etc/resolv.conf?
1151 [16:11:27] <greycat> E: Unable to correct problems, you have
held broken packages.
1152 [16:11:27] <greycat> root@xxxxxx:~/dist-upgrade2020-11# cat
/etc/debian_version ^C
1153 [16:11:27] <greycat> root@xxxxxx:~/dist-upgrade2020-11#
root@xxxxxx:~/dist-upgrade2020-11#
1154 [16:11:32] <yetAnotherOwner> i just canceled a ctrl+r
afterwards
1155 [16:11:33] <yetAnotherOwner> or not
1156 [16:11:38] <yetAnotherOwner> grr, sry
1157 [16:11:46] *** Quits: nifker (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1158 [16:12:04] <yetAnotherOwner> but it cant be taht i had any
chanche to cancel a simple cat on the local file system can it
1159 [16:12:13] <yetAnotherOwner> i guess something got mixed up
through screenlog
1160 [16:12:15] *** Joins: nifker (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip )
1161 [16:12:30] <yetAnotherOwner>
root@xxxxxx:~/dist-upgrade2020-11# cat /etc/debian_version
1162 [16:12:30] <yetAnotherOwner> 7.11
1163 [16:12:38] <yetAnotherOwner> see at my next paste with
englisch lang
1164 [16:13:01] <yetAnotherOwner> but lookes like there ive
forgotten the lsb_release -a
1165 [16:13:05] <greycat> OK. That's one data point. Now,
check your locally installed versions of python, python2.6 and
python2.7
1166 [16:13:25] <yetAnotherOwner> is there some good debian self
check software you would recomand
1167 [16:13:31] *** Joins: filohuhum (~filohuhum@replaced-ip )
1168 [16:13:37] <greycat> No. There is not. Figure out what you
have done, and fix it
1169 [16:13:53] <yetAnotherOwner> like checking all package
versions and pointing out from which debian/backports or forign repo
they originate
1170 [16:13:57] <greycat> No.
1171 [16:14:20] <greycat> Debian does not store that information.
1172 [16:14:48] <yetAnotherOwner> thats the problem, the system is
more then 10 years running now from its original debian 5 install,
migrated throug a couple of different virtualisation laysers and im
still not allowed to switch it of cause of anoying reasons
1173 [16:15:18] <greycat> Just check your versions of python,
python2.6 and python2.7
1174 [16:15:26] <ratrace> actually it does, but in a
other-way-around kinda way. you list packages listed under
/var/lib/lists and correlate with installed ones (or the other way
around)
1175 [16:15:34] <yetAnotherOwner> yea i mean some tool that dose
some low level dpkg stuff and then pulling the info into a database
and chekcing what the state of the system may
1176 [16:15:39] <ratrace> /var/lib/apt/lists/ is what I mean
1177 [16:16:19] <greycat> Debian doesn't store where a
package was INSTALLED from. The best you can hope for is that you
have lists of a current repository, and then you can compare
currently-installed versions of packages against that list, and can
see which ones could be reinstalled at same version from that list,
and which cannot.
1178 [16:16:22] <yetAnotherOwner> sorry i am again to fast
1179 [16:16:25] <yetAnotherOwner> so debian 6 was...
1180 [16:16:36] *** Quits: Moonspell (moon@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1181 [16:16:43] <yetAnotherOwner> let me gock.
1182 [16:16:55] <yetAnotherOwner> squeeze
1183 [16:16:55] <ratrace> greycat: right, that's the more
precise way of what I wanted to say
1184 [16:16:59] <yetAnotherOwner> and 7 is wheezy
1185 [16:17:24] <yetAnotherOwner> so i guess the best way would be
to do a snapshot and just try upgrading to squeeze and then to
wheezy
1186 [16:17:31] <yetAnotherOwner> so i dont have to unistall all
brokens
1187 [16:17:34] <yetAnotherOwner> or am i wrong
1188 [16:17:39] *** Joins: superbatmand (~badbatgoo@replaced-ip )
1189 [16:17:41] <greycat> : dpkg -l python python2.6 python2.7
1190 [16:18:26] <yetAnotherOwner> what do i have to do instead of
`dpkg --get-selection
1191 [16:18:26] <yetAnotherOwner> `
1192 [16:18:39] <yetAnotherOwner> to get the version installed
listed so i can look them up?
1193 [16:18:49] *** Quits: impermanence (a5e13d35@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Connection closed)
1194 [16:18:57] <greycat> (shutupbot) dpkg -l python python2.6
python2.7
1195 [16:19:17] *** Quits: ich (~ich@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
1196 [16:19:31] <yetAnotherOwner> sry
1197 [16:19:33] *** Parts: no_gravity (~no_gravit@replaced-ip ) ()
1198 [16:20:12] <yetAnotherOwner>
replaced-url
1199 [16:20:43] <yetAnotherOwner> oh its even 32-bit
1200 [16:20:56] <yetAnotherOwner> when was that day the unixtime
buffer will brake with 32bit software?
1201 [16:21:08] <greycat> OK, those all look like the wheezy
versions. If you've got wheeze sources then you should be able
to install python-dev.
1202 [16:21:22] <greycat> wheezy*
1203 [16:21:37] <jelly> 2038
1204 [16:21:46] *** Quits: stitched_unicorn (~stitched_@replaced-ip ) (Quit: stitched_unicorn)
1205 [16:22:00] <greycat> !wheezy sources.list
1206 [16:22:00] <dpkg> Debian 7 "wheezy" is archived. A
suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for wheezy has one line: «deb
replaced-url
1207 [16:22:09] <jelly> yetAnotherOwner: squeeze and wheezy are
both on a) on archive.debian.org b) will require some creative
options to install stuff from there, gpg keys and signatures expired
1208 [16:22:19] <jelly> !valid-until
1209 [16:22:20] <dpkg> it has been said that valid-until is
apt-get/aptitude -o Acquire::Check-Valid-Until=false and/or see
replaced-url
1210 [16:22:24] <yetAnotherOwner> one moment plz
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1212 [16:22:44] <jelly> if you go for squeeze, ^ this won't
be enough. If you go for wheezy it MIGHT ME
1213 [16:22:49] <jelly> MIGHT BE*
1214 [16:23:04] <L0aD1nG> hello guys
1215 [16:23:32] <jelly> last time I wanted to install stuff from
squeeze but still verify the repo, I had to set the clock back
1216 [16:23:42] <jelly> (run apt under faketime)
1217 [16:23:56] <yetAnotherOwner>
replaced-url
1218 [16:24:02] <yetAnotherOwner> so thats what i did now, any
ideas?
1219 [16:24:03] <greycat> The wheezy archive doesn't need it,
as far as I know. Then again, I can't actually test it any
more.
1220 [16:24:03] <L0aD1nG> i am installing debian on an old
netbook, and it complains for EFI partition. What should i do with
EFI partition??
1221 [16:24:09] *** Quits: Sellerie (~sellerie_@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds))
1222 [16:24:48] <yetAnotherOwner> greycat, ratrace , i should have
everything i had commented out in sources.list
1223 [16:24:53] <greycat> Why are you trying to REMOVE anything?
Add the wheezy line, apt-get update
1224 [16:24:56] *** Joins: Sellerie (~sellerie_@replaced-ip )
1225 [16:24:59] <yetAnotherOwner> i normally dont remove any
information if i can comment it out
1226 [16:25:03] *** Joins: stitched_unicorn (~stitched_@replaced-ip )
1227 [16:25:22] <yetAnotherOwner> i am trying to work around the
downtime ;)
1228 [16:25:23] <greycat> If you suspect you've still got
squeeze packages installed, then keep the squeeze lines as well as
the wheezy line. They won't hurt.
1229 [16:25:33] <greycat> But your python packages appear to be
wheezy ones.
1230 [16:26:15] *** Quits: wytchmaster (~wytchmast@replaced-ip##) (Quit: ##replaced-url
1231 [16:27:15] * yetAnotherOwner forgott :wg
1232 [16:27:15] <yetAnotherOwner> grrr
1233 [16:27:47] <yetAnotherOwner> E: Release file for
replaced-url
1234 [16:27:48] <yetAnotherOwner> ...
1235 [16:28:34] *** Quits: enoq (~textual@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1236 [16:28:45] <yetAnotherOwner> 404
1237 [16:28:46] <yetAnotherOwner> 404
1238 [16:28:50] <yetAnotherOwner> and o another 404
1239 [16:28:56] <yetAnotherOwner> E: Some index files failed to
download. They have been ignored, or old ones used instead.
1240 [16:29:28] <greycat> Oh, fun. I guess the wiki and the bot
need to be updated. Too bad I can't use http sources any more
so I can't test these things.
1241 [16:30:01] *** Quits: Antioch0 (~Antioch@replaced-ip##) (Quit: The Lounge - ##replaced-url
1242 [16:30:03] *** Joins: enoq (~textual@replaced-ip )
1243 [16:30:33] <yetAnotherOwner>
replaced-url
1244 [16:30:40] <yetAnotherOwner> so still no progress ;)
1245 [16:30:44] <yetAnotherOwner> *;(
1246 [16:31:11] <greycat> Use jelly's suggestion, or the
wiki's suggestion from the DebianSqueeze page.
1247 [16:31:19] *** Joins: Steeve (~steve@replaced-ip )
1248 [16:31:25] *** Quits: Jerrynicki (~niklas@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1249 [16:31:31] * yetAnotherOwner is on us layout now but has to much
used DE layout so ) gets confused with ( cause they are moved one
step to the right on us in comp to de keyb
1250 [16:31:53] *** Joins: Jerrynicki (~niklas@replaced-ip )
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1258 [16:35:54] *** Quits: ungars (~ungars@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
1259 [16:36:01] * yetAnotherOwner gets disturbed...
1260 [16:36:02] <L0aD1nG> can someone help me?
1261 [16:36:03] <yetAnotherOwner> sry
1262 [16:36:23] <dob1> I don't understand what's wrong:
udo mount -t cifs //ip/share /mountpoint -o
domain=WORKGROUP,username=user,password=pass,uid=1000,gid=1000
1263 [16:36:24] *** Joins: mirrorbird (psutcliffe@replaced-ip )
1264 [16:36:30] <dob1> *sudo
1265 [16:36:42] *** Quits: Jerrynicki (~niklas@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1266 [16:36:51] <dob1> it gives me invalid argument
1267 [16:36:55] <yetAnotherOwner> dob1, have you tried to use a
fuse based smb mount client?
1268 [16:37:32] <yetAnotherOwner> using this kernel based cifs
client ist outdated and insecure and requieres that the server
supports old cifs, modern systems only supports smb3
1269 [16:37:41] <yetAnotherOwner> afaik
1270 [16:37:41] <dob1> yetAnotherOwner, well I tried and this is
why I am trying this one. because (I don't know why) it gives
problems with permission on archive like 7z/zip when I decompress
them
1271 [16:37:44] <yetAnotherOwner> only
1272 [16:38:21] <yetAnotherOwner> are you able to access this
share using the samba client cli or some gvfs or graphical kde tool
?
1273 [16:38:30] <yetAnotherOwner> so you can firefy its not on
servers/networks end?
1274 [16:38:34] *** Joins: Zblakany (~Zblakany@replaced-ip )
1275 [16:38:56] *** Quits: pvdp6655644 (~pvdp@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1276 [16:39:11] <dob1> yetAnotherOwner, It works good but not the
archives. I am using graphical file manager
1277 [16:39:42] <yetAnotherOwner> to follow the best practice
guide burned into my brain let me first ask you some questions:
1278 [16:39:56] <yetAnotherOwner> is the system used by more then
one user?
1279 [16:40:02] <yetAnotherOwner> (physical not logical)
1280 [16:40:34] <yetAnotherOwner> do you plan to access the
mountpoint by more then one user (including root and your main user)
1281 [16:40:51] <yetAnotherOwner> (depending on this you need
maybe another fuse configuration)
1282 [16:40:54] <yetAnotherOwner> secoundly:
1283 [16:41:05] <yetAnotherOwner> what is the server you want to
mount
1284 [16:41:14] <dob1> another debian
1285 [16:41:14] *** Joins: Jerrynicki (~niklas@replaced-ip )
1286 [16:41:19] <yetAnotherOwner> 3.: is it part of a domain/AD or
just local accounts
1287 [16:41:23] *** Quits: aliov (~ali@replaced-ip ) (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
1288 [16:41:30] *** Quits: zapatistaist (~zapatista@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1289 [16:41:52] <yetAnotherOwner> 4: do you need auto mount on
boot/auto reconnect on connection loss or is it as stable so that
you can enter credentials manually
1290 [16:41:59] <yetAnotherOwner> thats it so far...
1291 [16:42:05] *** Joins: stitched_unicorn (~stitched_@replaced-ip )
1292 [16:42:07] <dob1> yetAnotherOwner, my problem is only on
archives :)
1293 [16:42:07] <yetAnotherOwner> and of cause what debian version
are you running ;)_
1294 [16:42:09] *** Joins: zapatista (~zapatista@replaced-ip )
1295 [16:42:19] <yetAnotherOwner> archives?
1296 [16:42:22] <dob1> yes
1297 [16:42:27] <dob1> 7z, zip whatever
1298 [16:42:53] <yetAnotherOwner> are you using kde or gnome
1299 [16:42:55] <dob1> it's something related to permission
when I decompress them in the share directory
1300 [16:43:01] <dob1> gnome
1301 [16:43:17] <yetAnotherOwner> maybe you only need to give your
user the requiered packages/rights and everything will work
automaticly at next login...
1302 [16:43:19] <dob1> yetAnotherOwner, but sorry I can't
give you more information right now. I have just shell access at
this moment
1303 [16:43:34] <yetAnotherOwner> so i would install gvfs and add
your user to the fuser group
1304 [16:43:39] <yetAnotherOwner> and then logoff and log back in
1305 [16:44:15] <yetAnotherOwner> then everytime you access smb://
adresses from nautilus it will be mounted automaticly and your
archiver can accecc it, and vlc dose not have to do its own smb
clients
1306 [16:44:30] <yetAnotherOwner> infact all appliacations can
access smb without supporting it by its own ;)
1307 [16:44:35] <yetAnotherOwner> gvfs ftw!!!!
1308 [16:45:33] <yetAnotherOwner> further reading:
replaced-url
1309 [16:45:47] <dob1> I have a 7z, testing the archive gives me
no errors, moving it on a directory in my home dir, decompressing it
gives me no error so the archive is ok. the problem is when I 7z x
the archive in the shared folder. it fails for sure for permission
problems, it creates some files. unzip fails with a lot of warning
like: "on chmod (file attributes) error: operation not
supported"
1310 [16:46:01] <yetAnotherOwner> gvfs-fuse is the important
package
1311 [16:46:13] *** Quits: zapatista (~zapatista@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1312 [16:46:33] <yetAnotherOwner> you are running the 7z always on
the same user and context?
1313 [16:46:40] <dob1> yes
1314 [16:46:44] <yetAnotherOwner> then gvfs-fuse is what you
problably want!
1315 [16:47:16] *** Quits: sinaowolabi (~Sina@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1316 [16:47:26] <yetAnotherOwner> its not default installed on
desktop debian for security/portability reasons but imho should be
1317 [16:47:38] <yetAnotherOwner>
replaced-url
1318 [16:47:47] *** Quits: SoulsForBelial (~SoulsForB@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1319 [16:47:49] <yetAnotherOwner> this explains waht it dose
1320 [16:47:58] *** Quits: Jerrynicki (~niklas@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
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1325 [16:49:11] <dob1> yetAnotherOwner, I have to try, thanks for
the infos
1326 [16:49:17] <yetAnotherOwner> d-bus is that inter process
communication thingy all modern graphical unix based operating
system incorparates for the software communicating with the grafical
framework (eg. nautilus the gnome file manager with gvfs that gnome
component allowing you to access remote shares as if they wouild be
local)
1327 [16:49:32] <yetAnotherOwner> yea, just install, relog and
youll see everything works better
1328 [16:49:32] *** Quits: d1cor (~d1cor@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1329 [16:49:49] *** Joins: czesmir (~stefan@replaced-ip )
1330 [16:49:56] <dob1> the fact is, that it works, but not
compressed archives. this is strange
1331 [16:50:01] <yetAnotherOwner> if you type in mount after
accessing a smb:// share you will see it gets automaticly mounted to
/var/run/somethin/username/gvfs
1332 [16:50:02] <yetAnotherOwner> or so
1333 [16:50:06] <dob1> I tried giving an umask before running 7z x
but nothing
1334 [16:50:25] <dob1> yetAnotherOwner, I know it works in this
way
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1338 [16:50:47] <yetAnotherOwner> then just link that
something/gvfs to ~/.gvfs and you have the good old feeling and can
easyli work on it from your bash or any graphical programm that
starts browsing in your home dir
1339 [16:50:56] <yetAnotherOwner> ln -s
1340 [16:51:00] <yetAnotherOwner> you know ;)
1341 [16:53:37] *** Quits: ice9 (~ice9@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1342 [16:53:40] <dob1> anyway I don't have a fuse group
1343 [16:54:27] <sorcerer> has anyone experienced and solved a
problem in kde plasma, in SSDM themes, when you download them
through KDE and attempt to use them, they dont work. i get
"module qtquick.controls version 2.5 is not installed"...
anyone know how to fix this or what package i can find that in?
1344 [16:55:15] <dob1> why I don't have a fuse group?
1345 [16:55:23] <dob1> it's not created by default?
1346 [16:55:44] *** Joins: puke (~vroom@replaced-ip )
1347 [16:56:08] *** Joins: Betal (~Betal@replaced-ip )
1348 [16:56:38] <greycat> probably created by packages that use
it, maybe sshfs or something similar
1349 [16:56:43] *** Quits: citypw (~citypw@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1350 [16:56:59] <greycat> if that's even still a thing...
1351 [16:57:18] *** Joins: ChmEarl (~chmearl@replaced-ip )
1352 [16:57:20] <dob1> I have sshfs installed
1353 [16:58:04] <ksk> It does not seem to exist anymore - judging
from my machine over here.
1354 [16:58:23] *** Quits: nikow (~nikow@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1355 [16:58:40] *** Quits: barteks2x (~barteks2x@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1356 [16:58:59] <dob1> someome people suggests to create it. but
it makes sense?
1357 [16:59:06] *** Joins: barteks2x (~barteks2x@replaced-ip )
1358 [16:59:12] *** Joins: nikow (~nikow@replaced-ip )
1359 [16:59:32] <greycat> maybe it's not used by sshfs any
more
1360 [16:59:34] <dob1> it it's not read by applications if
user is in this group it's useless
1361 [16:59:37] *** Quits: Zblakany (~Zblakany@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1362 [16:59:51] <ksk> dob1: check /dev/fuse - it is 666 - so no, I
dont think you should create a (more or less) random group called
"fuse" :P
1363 [17:00:12] *** Quits: barteks2x (~barteks2x@replaced-ip ) (Max SendQ exceeded)
1364 [17:00:15] <dob1> it's 666 so anyway can write on it
1365 [17:00:17] <dob1> *anyone
1366 [17:00:34] *** Joins: barteks2x (~barteks2x@replaced-ip )
1367 [17:00:45] <greycat> /dev/fuse is 666 on buster, and 660
root:fuse on wheezy
1368 [17:01:18] <dob1> on wheezy you still have the group ? even
if 6 on groups ?
1369 [17:01:21] <greycat> and 666 on jessie (8) so I guess
that's when it changed
1370 [17:01:33] *** Quits: wrksx (~wrksx@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
1371 [17:01:38] <dob1> ah no right. it' needs the group
1372 [17:01:51] <greycat> needed
1373 [17:02:06] <dob1> yes, right
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1389 [17:19:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1190
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(Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1392 [17:20:29] <dob1> so I have this gvfsd-fuse on
/run/user/1000/gvfs type fuse.gvfsd-fuse
(rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,user_id=1000,group_id=1000) why it has to
give me permissions problems when I uncompress some 7z/zip file in
it?
1393 [17:21:10] *** Joins: twobitsprite (~isaac.fre@98.122.129.103)
1394 [17:21:18] <greycat> Your earlier error message said that
chmod was failing. So you can simplify your testing -- just create a
file in the problematic directory, and try to chmod it and see what
happens.
1395 [17:21:56] *** Quits: Moonspell (moon@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1396 [17:22:31] <dob1> greycat, you right, the error is there,
Operation not supported
1397 [17:22:55] <dob1> it creates the file 777 by default
1398 [17:23:32] <dob1> and I can't change it, could it be a
samba server (the share is running on a samba server not windows
one) the issue?
1399 [17:23:42] <jelly> dob1: fuse-based filesystems can have
reduced capabilities compared to posix permissions, or sometimes it
doesn't make sense to expose them. In addition, they restrict
what non-owner user can do, even root
1400 [17:24:38] *** Quits: JohnML (~john1@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1401 [17:24:48] <dob1> jelly, ok, what can I do ? my idea was to
try to mount it using cifs but It was told me it's not a good
idea
1402 [17:24:50] <greycat> If the actual underlying file system is
on a Windows machine, then yeah, you don't have functioning
Unix perms.
1403 [17:25:26] *** Joins: JohnML (~john1@replaced-ip )
1404 [17:25:39] <jelly> dob1: ignore the issue
1405 [17:25:58] <jelly> unless you actually need proper
permissions
1406 [17:26:25] *** GNU\colo is now known as GNU\colossus
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1408 [17:26:47] <dob1> jelly, the fact is that when I decompress
an archive I get a general error so the doubt will be, it's
related to permissions (so I can ignore it) or it's an archive
error?
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1412 [17:28:01] <jelly> such is life when using fuse
1413 [17:28:32] <dob1> jelly, in practice, if cifs is not used
anymore what remains to mount samba share? just fuse?
1414 [17:29:01] <jelly> I did not even know there was a fuse-based
driver for smb/cifs shares until now.
1415 [17:29:05] *** Joins: dethos (~dethos@replaced-ip )
1416 [17:29:09] <yetAnotherOwner> im back, are you still trying to
get fuse to work?
1417 [17:29:21] <jelly> if you have a cifs share... why not use
cifs to mount it?
1418 [17:30:07] <yetAnotherOwner> cause kernel mode driver
provides less portability (imagine switching to OpenBSD or if you
really ont macOS)
1419 [17:30:17] <greycat> *blink*
1420 [17:30:17] <dob1> jelly, well I don't know, can I play
with permissions with it?
1421 [17:30:24] <yetAnotherOwner> or maybe youve got a vserver
that dose not support it but support fuse
1422 [17:30:28] <yetAnotherOwner> (most do)
1423 [17:30:56] <greycat> oh, person B is making up reasons why
person A might have made a choice
1424 [17:31:14] <yetAnotherOwner> or just for security reasons,
all kernel level network client code should be gone for good since
cpus are fast enough to do some context switches between user and
ring0 mode
1425 [17:31:21] *** Joins: brickfat (~brickfat@replaced-ip )
1426 [17:31:40] <yetAnotherOwner> of cause kernel mode drivers are
more fast but also less flexibil and if youve got one bit wrong all
your system is compromised
1427 [17:32:36] *** Joins: debsan (~debsan@replaced-ip )
1428 [17:32:36] <yetAnotherOwner> so if you use kernal for more
then doing basic tcp/ip stuff (higer then osi level 3) you are doing
sth wron imho cause of every code that fiddles with data send from
the network and thereby can not be trustet shouldnt run as root or
even worst kernel mode ;)
1429 [17:33:35] <yetAnotherOwner> of cause if youve got old
hardware and your whole network is problably monitored firewalled
and updated you can do so to get your hardware to do a bit more and
spare a few coins but its the wrong end cause it enflicts your
security imho
1430 [17:34:26] <dob1> I cannot play with umask to avoid the
warning/error?
1431 [17:35:22] *** Quits: nksegos (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1432 [17:35:37] <dob1> no it makes no sense
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1461 [17:57:34] <absinthe> Hello. I'm trying to use a preseed
file for installation, which mostly works fine, except for the
static IP and the hostname which aren't defined as expected. If
someone could take a quick look at my preseed file it'd be
greatly appreciated:
replaced-url
1462 [17:58:23] *** Quits: sweatsuit (~sweatsuit@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1463 [17:59:09] <yetAnotherOwner> just do tar to copy compleded
installations to target system
1464 [17:59:45] *** Joins: sweatsuit (~sweatsuit@replaced-ip )
1465 [17:59:47] <yetAnotherOwner> or lern to use cp bash and
debootstrap
1466 [18:00:08] *** Joins: XORed (xored@replaced-ip )
1467 [18:00:12] <yetAnotherOwner>
replaced-url
1468 [18:00:21] <yetAnotherOwner> here good example how to
dublicate whole system
1469 [18:00:42] <yetAnotherOwner> at the and just set hostname
reset ssh keys and write network card compics acording to:
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1471 [18:01:29] <ratrace> ogawd, stahp!
1472 [18:01:35] <yetAnotherOwner>
replaced-url
1473 [18:01:54] <yetAnotherOwner> if you do the
/etc/network/interfaces, right everything will be working i guess
1474 [18:02:02] <yetAnotherOwner> or what exactly is your goal
absinthe
1475 [18:02:45] <yetAnotherOwner> what is that d-i in your file
ratrace
1476 [18:02:51] <yetAnotherOwner> i dont know this syntax...
1477 [18:03:02] <absinthe> to define a static IP and a defined
hostname using preseed files
1478 [18:03:43] <yetAnotherOwner> i can only find command di:
Description: advanced df like disk information utility
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1480 [18:04:02] <yetAnotherOwner> so i dont know what that d-i
command is, care to explain or give a hint
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1491 [18:09:18] <absinthe> there's that page,
yetAnotherOwner:
replaced-url
1492 [18:09:33] <yetAnotherOwner> ah thanks
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1494 [18:09:55] <yetAnotherOwner> so d-i ist a component of debian
installer?
1495 [18:10:10] <shtrb> d-i is a short name for debian-installer
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1498 [18:11:17] <yetAnotherOwner> debian installer is a nice
thing, quite complex and bulky and as mighty that you never would
understand it, but its based on debootstrap so i would suggest using
debootstrap as base and write some .sh file around it
1499 [18:11:32] <yetAnotherOwner> its mouch more flexible if you
know how to script bash
1500 [18:11:33] *** Joins: puke (~vroom@replaced-ip )
1501 [18:11:57] <yetAnotherOwner> but ill look into it the other
day, thanks for enlighting me
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1504 [18:13:46] * yetAnotherOwner /away
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1516 [18:23:40] <scrul00se> absinthe: this is a shot in the dark
(haven't used custom preseeding myself), but does it make any
difference if the host & IP stuff comes after the
netcfg/choose_interface line?
1517 [18:25:01] <absinthe> scrul00se: it doesn't appear order
matters, but i'll give it a shot
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1532 [18:38:51] <absinthe> ok i guess i forgot to define a few
options. just spotted two missing things
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1567 [19:09:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1187
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1573 [19:12:49] <topster> Hi, wanted to update jessie on my Mac
(PowerPC 32 bit) but I noticed that the ppc32 arch was removed from
the mirrors. Is there any mirror left providing that?
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1584 [19:20:19] <towo`> topster, i don't know, if there is a
(inofficial) mirror, but you can try that
replaced-url
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1593 [19:28:42] <n4dir> i just joined, but ran sid on a powerpc,
can't say that much about it, but there is the IRC channel
#debianppc It is rather silent
1594 [19:29:02] <jmcnaught> Hello. Debian 10, UEFI, no SecureBoot.
I want to move my /boot and /boot/efi from one drive to another. Do
I just need to recreate the two filesystems, move the files over,
update /etc/fstab, run update-initramfs -u and update-grub? Or am I
missing steps?
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1601 [19:31:42] <topster> towo: Thanks I will check that out
1602 [19:32:02] <Brigo> !tias
1603 [19:32:02] <dpkg> TIAS is "Try It And See".
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1605 [19:32:40] <n4dir> topster: what was your question, if can
can give a short version?
1606 [19:33:29] <topster> n4dir: ppc32 support
1607 [19:33:43] *** Quits: RhineDevil (~RhineDevi@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1608 [19:33:57] <n4dir> you plan to install it and didn't do
it yet?
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1610 [19:35:05] <n4dir> last info i got, bit outdated, is that
old-old-stable does work, and that sid works. I upgraded
old-old-stable straight to sid, knowing that is just wrong, but you
simply have not repos for between. iirc
1611 [19:35:46] <n4dir> the mentioned IRC channel is fine, but as
said you really need time, it is quite silent.
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1617 [19:39:50] <topster> I noticed that oldoldstable doesnt
contain the ppc directory - or i am to stupid. But I will check it
out later. Maybe other mirrors will provide it.
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1622 [19:41:36] <Brigo> topster, worse case scenario,
snapshots.debian.org has it all :)
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1624 [19:42:35] <jmcnaught>
replaced-url
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1653 [20:25:58] <Lope> I've been uninstalling packagekit and
all of it's deps etc, lately. Seems like unnecessary bloat.
What do you reckon?
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1663 [20:33:58] <Lope> Any idea what this is? Have searched,
can't find anything obvious: libvirtd End of file while reading
data: Input/output error
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1676 [20:45:42] <Lope> brb
1677 [20:45:48] *** Quits: Lope (~Lopeuser@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
1678 [20:47:03] <Franciman> Hi
1679 [20:47:04] <Franciman>
replaced-url
1680 [20:47:07] <Franciman> what is this log message?
1681 [20:47:23] <Franciman> what does the thunderbolt have to do
with something related to wifi? (I don't have an external
dongle)
1682 [20:47:28] *** Joins: Texou (~Texou@replaced-ip )
1683 [20:50:51] <towo`> Franciman, where, in your paste, you see
anything wifi related in that thunderbold messages?
1684 [20:51:14] <Franciman> eheheheheheh
1685 [20:51:24] <Franciman> I know it because TX and RX are values
related to wifi connection
1686 [20:51:31] <towo`> no is not
1687 [20:51:50] <Franciman> what can it be, then?
1688 [20:51:53] *** Joins: rsx (~rsx@replaced-ip )
1689 [20:52:13] <towo`> TX and RX are standard terms for send and
receive
1690 [20:52:18] <Franciman> oh lol
1691 [20:52:19] <Franciman> cool
1692 [20:52:37] <ndegruchy> Franciman: looks like it's
registering some interrupts to listen(?) at?
1693 [20:53:00] <Franciman> honestly I have this wifi problem,
here is the whole log:
1694 [20:54:23] <greycat> "transmit" and
"receive" to be more precise
1695 [20:54:29] <Franciman>
replaced-url
1696 [20:54:40] <Franciman> I was trying to debug
1697 [20:55:00] <Franciman> and it looked like it could be
related, but heh, I guess I was wrong
1698 [20:56:43] *** Joins: grummund (~unknown@replaced-ip )
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1700 [20:57:29] <ndegruchy> ath10k_pci
1701 [20:57:37] <Zombie> Is there a bugzilla I can request a new
Package be added to Debian?
1702 [20:57:37] <ndegruchy> Do you have the firmware installed?
1703 [20:57:41] <Franciman> yes
1704 [20:57:50] <Franciman> I do, I also tried to update to newer
firmware
1705 [20:57:54] <Brigo> Zombie, rfp
1706 [20:57:57] <Brigo> !rfp
1707 [20:57:57] <dpkg> Request For Package (RFP) is the way to ask
for a piece of software to be included in Debian. See
replaced-url
1708 [20:58:26] <Brigo> Franciman, that looks like a driver,
kernel or hardware malfunction.
1709 [20:58:50] <Brigo> Franciman, well, driver is part of the
kernel, usually.
1710 [20:59:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1193
1711 [20:59:08] <Franciman> Brigo, in fact, I guess it's on
the driver side
1712 [20:59:16] <ndegruchy> Franciman: at the end, it looks like
you got a successful dhack, so you have a good network address. What
seems to be the problem?
1713 [20:59:24] <Brigo> Franciman, do you have lots of that?
1714 [20:59:39] <Franciman> ndegruchy, that I had to shut down the
pc
1715 [20:59:42] <Franciman> because it froze
1716 [20:59:43] <Franciman> lol
1717 [20:59:48] <Brigo> ndegruchy, it doesn't last, i guess.
1718 [21:00:04] <Franciman> Brigo, yes, every day, at least 3-4
times
1719 [21:00:33] <ndegruchy> if it froze, you might try enabling
the sysrq key for safely rebooting, see if it's really locked
up. Could be a hardware issue, though.
1720 [21:02:32] <Franciman> with ubuntu 18.04 it worked, and I
used exactly the same firmware files
1721 [21:02:36] <Franciman> so the problem must be in the drivers
1722 [21:03:05] <Brigo> Franciman, what kernels are you using in
debian and ubuntu?
1723 [21:03:28] <Franciman> for ubuntu it was 4.15-oem :P
1724 [21:03:35] <Franciman> it was ubuntu shipped with my dell xps
13
1725 [21:03:38] <Franciman> debian: 4.19
1726 [21:04:07] <Brigo> well, you can try to upgrade the kernel
via backports ...
1727 [21:04:12] <Franciman> I already tried
1728 [21:04:25] <Franciman> I want to debug this problem
1729 [21:04:30] <Franciman> and see where the damn code fails
1730 [21:04:48] *** Quits: m0u (~m0u@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1731 [21:04:48] *** Quits: sinaowolabi (~Sina@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1732 [21:05:15] <Franciman> well, updating the kernel is still a
good idea
1733 [21:05:19] <Franciman> let me try
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1735 [21:06:41] *** Joins: Onyx47_ (~onyx@replaced-ip )
1736 [21:06:55] <Franciman> brb
1737 [21:06:56] <Franciman> thanks ppl
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1765 [21:24:34] <Rob_Jones> can anyone help me to install vsftpd
please
1766 [21:24:42] <Rob_Jones> getting this error when sudo apt-get
install vsftpd
1767 [21:24:54] <Rob_Jones> [vsftpd.conf:1] Line references path
below legacy directory /var/run/, updating /var/run/vsftpd/empty
→ /run/vsftpd/empty; please update the tmpfiles.d/ drop-in file
accordingly.
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1772 [21:26:44] <jhutchins> Rob_Jones: Which release? Can you
pastebin your sources.list and anything from sources.list.d?
1773 [21:26:47] <jhutchins> !paste
1774 [21:26:48] <dpkg> Do not paste more than 2 lines to this
channel. Instead, use for text:
replaced-url
1775 [21:26:57] *** Parts: RedSoxFan07 (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip ) ()
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1777 [21:27:14] *** Joins: monoxane (~monoxane@replaced-ip )
1778 [21:29:46] <Rob_Jones>
replaced-url
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1780 [21:31:17] *** Quits: Tobbi (~Tobbi@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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1785 [21:36:13] *** Quits: rcm888 (~rcm888___@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1786 [21:36:44] *** Quits: rsx (~rsx@replaced-ip ) (Quit: rsx)
1787 [21:37:03] <sney> !ftp must die
1788 [21:37:03] <dpkg> FTP MUST DIE!
replaced-url
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1790 [21:38:26] *** Joins: xet7 (~xet7@replaced-ip )
1791 [21:39:14] <jhutchins> !linode
1792 [21:39:22] *** Joins: fachinformatiker (~fachinfor@replaced-ip )
1793 [21:39:41] *** Quits: Bjornn (~Bjornn@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1794 [21:40:37] <ratrace> 'sright. say ! to linode
1795 [21:41:37] <jhutchins> Rob_Jones: We've seen rumors that
their images/packages are not entirely clean. You could try
switchcing mirrors.
1796 [21:42:04] <jhutchins> Rob_Jones: Although just guessing, it
would be the image/initial install causing that problem.
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1800 [21:44:50] <jhutchins> Rob_Jones:
replaced-url
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1803 [21:45:30] <Rob_Jones> need a guide for setting up SFTP on
debian :P
1804 [21:46:21] <Druid> can u try sftp user@host
1805 [21:46:25] <Druid> what error u get?
1806 [21:46:34] <jhutchins> Rob_Jones: Generally Openssh
doesn't need any special setup.
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1808 [21:46:53] <jhutchins> My guess is he's trying to set up
a sort of open server.
1809 [21:46:57] <Rob_Jones> oh it connects
1810 [21:47:02] <Rob_Jones> no setup required?
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1812 [21:47:19] <jhutchins> Rob_Jones: Well, you have to generate
a key.
1813 [21:47:28] <Rob_Jones> i have a keyfile
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1816 [21:48:19] <Rob_Jones> now final question
1817 [21:48:28] <Rob_Jones> any idea why i can connect via an ip
1818 [21:48:40] <Rob_Jones> but i cant to any domain name pointing
at that ip
1819 [21:49:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1187
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1822 [21:49:52] <jhutchins> Rob_Jones: What about other domains?
1823 [21:50:02] <sney> Rob_Jones: how recently did you set up the
dns records? the change may still be propagating
1824 [21:50:08] <Rob_Jones> weeks ago
1825 [21:50:16] <Rob_Jones> ill share the error message
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1829 [21:53:51] <Rob_Jones>
replaced-url
1830 [21:54:27] *** Quits: Jerrynicki (~niklas@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
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1832 [21:55:11] <sney> Rob_Jones: are you using cloudflare or
another caching dns provider? you might be hitting both the cache
and the actual vm ip
1833 [21:55:17] *** Joins: SoulsForBelial (~SoulsForB@replaced-ip )
1834 [21:55:22] <Rob_Jones> nope
1835 [21:55:25] *** Joins: Tobbi (~Tobbi@replaced-ip )
1836 [21:55:34] <Rob_Jones> just my domain provider forwarding to
linode
1837 [21:56:07] <sney> alright, well, remove line 8 in known_hosts
and see if it behaves
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1855 [22:29:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1179
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1863 [22:41:59] *** Quits: JohnML (~john1@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
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1868 [22:45:04] <mar77i> hmm. how did this work with making oom a
bit more trigger-happy and not locking up my laptop whenever the
browser ate all the resources?
1869 [22:45:42] *** Quits: JohnML (~john1@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
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1872 [22:47:37] <f8e4> is there a simple paint for debian?
1873 [22:47:40] <f8e4> gpaint sucks
1874 [22:47:44] <f8e4> gimp too complex
1875 [22:47:49] <f8e4> open source
1876 [22:48:06] <mtn> f8e4:
replaced-url
1877 [22:48:19] <mar77i> there's krita
1878 [22:48:26] <mar77i> or mypaint.
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1887 [22:54:52] <unixbsd> hi, does Debian work on AMD-k6 with 64
mb?
1888 [22:55:15] <greycat> That's not enough RAM for the
current releases. The last release that supports 64 MB is wheezy.
1889 [22:55:31] <greycat> Even then you will NOT want to run any
kind of X session at all.
1890 [22:55:44] <unixbsd> yeah but there wont be security update
on wheezy?
1891 [22:55:49] <greycat> correct
1892 [22:55:58] <unixbsd> just need console to type mostly.
1893 [22:56:15] *** Joins: zeden (~user@replaced-ip )
1894 [22:56:19] <f8e4> mtn ty, has anyone a paint like on debian?
all the alternatives lsited are fancy, closed, etc....
1895 [22:56:36] <greycat> it should work extremely well for
logging in on the console and editing files with vi or nano
1896 [22:56:39] <unixbsd> f8e4: sudo apt-get install xpaint ;
xpaint
1897 [22:57:09] <unixbsd> so stable without x11, would work on
amd-k6 64mb ram? (no x11)
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(~craig.fie@c-75-64-69-81.hsd1.la.comcast.net) (Quit: leaving)
1899 [22:57:41] <greycat> No.
1900 [22:57:57] <greycat> stable does not support 64 MB. that
means it's not even guaranteed to INSTALL.
1901 [22:58:13] <greycat> if it happens to work, you got lucky
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(Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1903 [22:59:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1173
1904 [22:59:29] <greycat> *wheezy* without x11 will work on the K6
with 64 MB
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1906 [23:00:27] <greycat> declare -x is exactly the same as export
1907 [23:00:29] <greycat> ECHAN
1908 [23:00:59] *** Joins: twobitsprite (~isaac.fre@98.122.129.103)
1909 [23:01:17] <corey1> Debian Pros: I am interested in learning
a programming language as someone with no formal or other training
in comp. sci. but good attention to detail and a love of human
language learning. If I did not tell you anything else, what would
you recommend that I learn to best help my interactions with Debian?
1910 [23:01:18] *** Joins: dvs (~hibbard@replaced-ip )
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1912 [23:03:47] <jhutchins> corey1: Bash is probably the most
useful thnig to start with. Perl, Ruby, and Python are a bit
new-user friendly.
1913 [23:03:55] *** Quits: leorat (~leorat@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
1914 [23:04:04] <corey1> Oh, Bash. Sure. I was thinking of C,
given its universality.
1915 [23:04:25] <corey1> jhutchins, what would you say to that?
1916 [23:04:25] *** Joins: m0u (~m0u@replaced-ip )
1917 [23:04:44] <jhutchins> corey1: The various versions of C are
what makes up most of the Linux binaries. Java/Tomcat do a lot of
heavy work on web sites.
1918 [23:05:07] <Druid> c is difficult but i am stupid
1919 [23:05:15] <Druid> i can use python to make what i want most
of the times
1920 [23:05:28] <f8e4> unixbsd nope
1921 [23:05:37] <f8e4> finally!: drawing
1922 [23:05:38] <Druid> i dont need performance though
1923 [23:05:43] <jhutchins> corey1: C has a lot of details and
subtleties you have to learn to get much done, and it doesn't
seem to teach good software design skills, although it rewards them.
1924 [23:06:25] <corey1> Oh, interesting. See, in #programming,
they recommended C. But what do I know? Nothing. I want to learn
something broadly usable for little tinkers, maybe even, say,
writing a little WM some day.
1925 [23:06:26] <jhutchins> corey1: It's also good to study
books about good software design practice, and good project
management.
1926 [23:06:57] <jhutchins> corey1: I would definitely make C a
goal, but a good foundation is important.
1927 [23:07:56] <jhutchins> (Real Programmers write Assembler, but
that's enven more convoluted than C.
1928 [23:08:06] <corey1> jhutchins, is there a trusted standby to
build that foundation, like a 'This is What Programming
Is' book to read before learning the language?
1929 [23:08:15] <Druid> corey1: WM as in window manager? if so, C
is what u want to learn
1930 [23:08:42] *** Joins: fachinformatiker (~fachinfor@replaced-ip )
1931 [23:08:47] <jhutchins> corey1: Yes, there is, and I
don't know it. I'm an admin, not a coder. All of my
languages are decades obsolete.
1932 [23:08:53] <greycat> I would never attempt to write my own
window manager, geez.
1933 [23:09:04] <corey1> Druid: Precisely. I might also want to
build a LibreOffice/OpenOffice extension. Stuff like that. Really
contributing to FOSS with little doodads that I myself need as a
professional scholar (academic Church historian).
1934 [23:09:38] <dob1> maybe you can contribute to an existing one
1935 [23:09:43] <jhutchins> corey1: The problem with that is that
16:06 < corey1> Oh, interesting. See, in #programming, they
recommended C. But what do I know? Nothing. I want to learn
something
1936 [23:09:50] <jhutchins> Gah.
1937 [23:10:15] <corey1> jhutchins: What do you mean?
1938 [23:10:55] <jhutchins> corey1: If you tackle something like
that without a good grounding in theory it's likely to not go
well, and your finished project won't be useful to people.
1939 [23:10:58] *** Quits: raver (~raver@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1940 [23:12:02] <jhutchins> I've known some pretty good
progammers, and they all studied a lot of theory before they did any
good, serious work.
1941 [23:12:27] <corey1> jhutchins: Understood. I like the
'contribute little things to existing projects' goal. IDK.
I will see. It bothers me that I have no dispensable money to donate
toward and no skills to give back to the FOSS projects that I use
for 100% of my work. The best that I can do is file bug reports.
1942 [23:12:35] <greycat> your concept of "little
doodads" is staggeringly complex and difficult
1943 [23:12:45] <greycat> You need to start WAY, way simpler.
1944 [23:12:59] <scrul00se> corey1: As someone in a very similar
position to yours, I have found Python very rewarding. It is (to my
mind) less arcane and easier to read than Bash or C, and there are
*many* nice libraries that make it easy to actually get things done
without having to spend years learning the low-level guts of every
underlying component
1945 [23:13:20] <dob1> what are doodads ?
1946 [23:13:21] <jhutchins> Bug reports are important, and
studying them and their solutions is a great way to learn.
1947 [23:13:31] <greycat> python is a reasonable starting
language, probably
1948 [23:13:39] <jhutchins> dob1: Thingamajigs.
1949 [23:14:05] *** Quits: netcrash (~charmande@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1950 [23:14:06] <dvs> Whatchamacallits?
1951 [23:14:26] <jhutchins> There are also tools to learn, like
awk, sed, patch, diff, git.
1952 [23:14:42] <corey1> Well, thanks, everyone. I will keep
exploring and then just dive into learning something. The problem is
going to be that I truly have to start from scratch. My high school
calculus has gone entirely unused since then. I look at code to
comment things out, and...that's it. No idea what any of it
means. Truly from scratch.
1953 [23:15:01] <greycat> awk and sed are usually learned in
conjunction with shell, because shell is crippled and useless in so
many ways that it leans upon awk and sed to do a lot of its job for
it
1954 [23:15:39] <dob1> I am not a good programmer but I suggest
python too. it's simple, well documented, there are so many
libraries around and on debian is supported very well
1955 [23:15:41] <greycat> You *could* learn C as a first language;
it would not be the worst choice. But it's not the easiest.
1956 [23:16:07] *** Quits: twobitsprite (~isaac.fre@98.122.129.103)
(Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1957 [23:16:26] <dob1> what would be the worst choice ? :)
1958 [23:16:26] *** Quits: towo` (~towo@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
1959 [23:16:40] <greycat> BASIC, PHP, or anything object oriented
1960 [23:16:56] <leibniz> Buster > arch
1961 [23:17:13] <leibniz> the best first language is python
1962 [23:17:36] <leibniz> hence it being taught at any
universities introductory computer science courses
1963 [23:17:44] <leibniz> i mean
1964 [23:18:05] <corey1> Alright. Well, I shall explore more!
Python it just might be. Hard to say. Maybe C. I probably would not
look at anything else, frankly. I know that there are many, many
programming languages, but I just want to learn 1 fairly
'well.'
1965 [23:18:11] <leibniz> Almost every introductory cs couse in
the world teaches python
1966 [23:18:34] <leibniz> python is one of the most versatile
languages anyway
1967 [23:18:46] *** Quits: BenDover (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip ) (Quit: BenDover)
1968 [23:19:06] <unixbsd> C is mother of all operating systems
1969 [23:19:09] <leibniz> Do no start with “c”
1970 [23:19:15] <leibniz> c# at least
1971 [23:19:16] <dob1> javascript ? well at least is one of the
most used, but it's not so simple imho
1972 [23:19:24] <unixbsd> Do start with C. this is best bet.
1973 [23:19:40] <unixbsd> C# is windows junk.
1974 [23:19:53] <leibniz> Python then c or cpp or c#
1975 [23:20:12] <corey1> See! No agreement. I am attracted to C.
But I can tell you that I have no desire at all to learn Web or
Object-based language. I want to interact with local system stuff.
Local software.
1976 [23:20:13] <leibniz> no c#9 is ok also .net 5
1977 [23:20:38] <jhutchins> I would recommend avoiding PHP. I used
to think it just allowed bad practices, but I have learned that it
actually requires bad programming.
1978 [23:20:43] <unixbsd> Pascal and C, then you can do junks.
apt-get install fpc gcc make
1979 [23:20:44] *** Quits: simpledat (~unknown@replaced-ip ) (Quit: leaving)
1980 [23:20:58] <leibniz> Do not listen to this guy lol
1981 [23:21:03] <leibniz> hes crazy man
1982 [23:21:17] <leibniz> Python then c#
1983 [23:21:34] <leibniz> Then Java then JavaScript
1984 [23:21:37] <dvs> !start a language war
1985 [23:21:37] <dpkg> FORTRAN is faster than Ruby
1986 [23:21:42] <unixbsd> Python is ugly and unlikely to get
enjoyable stay. C is power for many years.
1987 [23:21:55] <leibniz> ??
1988 [23:22:01] <leibniz> c is ugly
1989 [23:22:14] <jhutchins> unixbsd: That's what they said
about Cobol.
1990 [23:22:20] *** Joins: twobitsprite (~isaac.fre@98.122.129.103)
1991 [23:22:20] <leibniz> Ok wel nm
1992 [23:22:29] <leibniz> python > c
1993 [23:22:33] <dob1> !start a language war
1994 [23:22:34] <dpkg> csh is more efficient than Ruby
1995 [23:22:39] <leibniz> final answer
1996 [23:22:49] <Druid> !timeout
1997 [23:22:53] <sney> corey1: the "learn python the hard
way" online course assumes you don't already know how to
program. I took it a few years ago and it helped me, I'd
recommend it
1998 [23:23:08] <leibniz> M2 ^
1999 [23:23:11] <Druid> ^ i recommend that
2000 [23:23:33] *** Joins: gryffus (~gryffus@replaced-ip )
2001 [23:23:56] <sney> (and the same site has a C course with
already knowing 1 language as a pre-requisite)
2002 [23:24:06] <jhutchins> I've done chunks of LPTHW and
it's very good, very well done.
2003 [23:24:14] <unixbsd> jhutchins: I remember Cobol. It was
impressive at that time. I cant remember on which hardware still.
2004 [23:24:16] <dob1> what is LPTHW ?
2005 [23:24:30] <sney> learn python the hard way
2006 [23:24:49] <corey1> Oh, I like that. Learn Python the Hard
Way. I'll look into it. Anything comparable for C?
2007 [23:24:50] <jhutchins> unixbsd: IBM or DEC.
2008 [23:25:45] <dob1> sney, it's a book?
2009 [23:25:50] <jhutchins> corey1: Note that they requre that you
alredy know another language for the C course. They, too, feel like
you need to form good habits before you jump in.
2010 [23:26:10] <Druid> corey1: the C programming language after
you learn the basics
2011 [23:26:23] <Druid> The C Programming Language by Ritchie
2012 [23:26:36] *** Quits: mbrad (~mbrad@replaced-ip ) (Quit: leaving)
2013 [23:26:53] <sney> dob1: I guess there's a book version
now. I just read it on the website when I did it.
replaced-url
2014 [23:27:10] <corey1> Thank you, thank you, everyone :)
2015 [23:27:51] <jhutchins> We now return you to Debian Tecchnical
Support.
2016 [23:29:54] <corey1> jhutchins: Well, I did ask the initial
question specifically with regard to interaction with Debian. I love
Debian. Debian and FreeBSD are my 2 favorite OSes on the planet.
There are many. I love most FOSS. But Debian is probably my #1. I
want to interact with it better.
2017 [23:32:00] <jhutchins> It was a good discussion, and I think
you got some good answers. One thing I'd add: besides books,
read good scripts and read good code.
2018 [23:33:25] <corey1> Indeed. If I go with Python, literally
the 1st thing that I'll do is 'read' QTile, and same
for C and dwm + spectrwm. Why? I want to understand how it
'works' in things that I use and know how to find.
2019 [23:33:43] *** Quits: RhineDevil (~RhineDevi@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020 [23:34:04] <leibniz> IMO c# is more of a practical language
2021 [23:34:22] <leibniz> employability wise
2022 [23:35:15] <leibniz> You can use visual studio and download
both the python and c libraries I believe
2023 [23:35:20] <leibniz> and try them both
2024 [23:35:27] <leibniz> learn them concurrent
2025 [23:35:41] *** Joins: lnxslck (~lnxslck@replaced-ip )
2026 [23:36:00] *** Quits: corey1 (~corey@replaced-ip ) (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2027 [23:36:04] <lnxslck> can someone on testing confirm what is
/bin/sh ?
2028 [23:36:36] *** Quits: elliptical (~Anonymous@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2029 [23:36:44] <leibniz> What do you think?
2030 [23:36:44] *** Joins: corey1 (~corey@replaced-ip )
2031 [23:36:49] <leibniz> yea I can tell you
2032 [23:36:52] <corey1> Thanks again. Well, I do like all this
stuff. Good day, folks.
2033 [23:36:59] <leibniz> yw dude
2034 [23:37:06] <leibniz> Come back soon
2035 [23:37:14] <leibniz> Debian is incredible
2036 [23:37:23] <leibniz> linux > *
2037 [23:37:36] <sney> lnxslck: it's dash
2038 [23:37:52] <lnxslck> sney: can you output it here? the full
path?
2039 [23:38:10] <lnxslck> or does it simply point to dash? like:
/bin/sh -> dash* ?
2040 [23:38:19] <sney> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4 Nov 12 00:58
/bin/sh -> dash
2041 [23:38:27] <lnxslck> thank you sney
2042 [23:38:30] <sney> np
2043 [23:38:34] <leibniz> what command did that
2044 [23:38:39] <lnxslck> I broke it, then I had to re-do that
link
2045 [23:38:49] *** Joins: freebench__ (~freebench@replaced-ip )
2046 [23:38:50] <lnxslck> so I didnt knew if it was the correct
2047 [23:39:05] *** Quits: michaelni (~michael@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2048 [23:39:16] <Druid> @laptop:~$ ls -al /bin/sh
2049 [23:39:16] <Druid> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4 Sep 22 2019
/bin/sh -> dash
2050 [23:39:40] <Druid> im on ubuntu thought but it should be same
2051 [23:39:59] <unixbsd> judd: ah, maybe IBM. I remember a bit
this machine, how it looked. nice time. it was early time of
programming, today we have big industry. fast and crappy softs, slow
as ever. luckily we have opensource to make soft better.
2052 [23:40:01] <sney> same command, at any rate
2053 [23:40:11] <sney> !dash
2054 [23:40:12] <dpkg> dash (formerly Debian Almquist shell) is a
<POSIX> compliant shell, smaller than <bash> and offers
faster script execution (decreasing boot time). dash is the default
/bin/sh since the Debian 6.0 "Squeeze" release. To check
if your existing scripts will work with dash, use checkbashisms from
<devscripts> and see
replaced-url
2055 [23:40:21] <unixbsd> corey1: I recommend netbsd, it works
well as well on all archs.
2056 [23:40:47] <dnull> Even on Toasters.
2057 [23:41:09] <lnxslck> I have been having dash hold back
because it has some weird bugs, and today I just thought: screw it,
let me remove it
2058 [23:41:21] <lnxslck> didnt remember it was dash the default
not bash
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2061 [23:43:37] <unixbsd> osh compiles out of the box, for fun.
2062 [23:43:42] <jhutchins> leibniz: Like several of us said, I
think C goes much better if you learn good programming habits first.
2063 [23:44:22] *** Quits: nitefall (~thewellin@replaced-ip ) (Quit: nitefall)
2064 [23:44:29] *** Quits: LionOpeter (~liron@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2065 [23:44:59] <unixbsd> best if FPC, old pascal won't kill.
2066 [23:45:31] <jhutchins> leibniz: I agree that C is very
powerful and very employable. (Good java coding is also very
employable.)
2067 [23:45:33] *** Joins: wwilliam (~afernande@replaced-ip )
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2070 [23:46:57] <jhutchins> PHP is a good example that it's
possible to do a lot of things wrong and badly and still get usable
output.
2071 [23:47:31] <unixbsd> looks an example of SDL game in Just C:
you cant beat C:
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2072 [23:48:32] <corey1> Oh, I like that C is employable.
That's a huge plus for it. Yes, I am already in a career, and
yes, I want to do this for hobby, but a career switch has always
been on the back of my mind, esp. one that involves GNU/Linux or
BSD.
2073 [23:49:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1165
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2078 [23:50:01] <corey1> Getting paid to use Debian. I mean, come
on. That's every boy's dream.
2079 [23:50:39] <leibniz> Lol
2080 [23:50:47] <leibniz> True
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