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100 [00:59:23] <graff> i am wanting to upgrade my debian system
101 [00:59:25] <graff>
replaced-url
102 [00:59:37] <graff> apt-get update && apt-get
dist-upgrade
103 [00:59:43] <graff> does this seem correct?
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105 [00:59:56] <graff> we've used apt-get not aptitude, so I
figure we should stick with it
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107 [01:00:28] <HeXiLeD> what would be the lightest browser
available on debian repos that works with flash and ajax ?
108 [01:00:29] <graff> all I care about is getting the relevant
security updates. not interested versions or features
109 [01:00:47] <graff> as in, if possible I;d prefer to not
upgrade to a whole new release
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128 [01:17:51] <foul_owl> Whats the canonical tool for floating
ip failover? keepalived? Or something else?
129 [01:18:00] <foul_owl> Just trying to set up an HA ssh bastion
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134 [01:25:27] <mnuhmnuh> graff_: which release are you using?
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136 [01:26:27] <mnuhmnuh> that is the correct command; i use
apt-get myself.
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138 [01:27:47] <mnuhmnuh> lsb_release -a
139 [01:28:02] <graff_> thank you
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141 [01:28:10] <graff_> still trashed our gitlab installation
though
142 [01:28:28] <graff_> not debian's fault. just
gitlab's coordination with the upgrading
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144 [01:28:54] <graff_> sorting out the mess now. we're
going to need to find a CI with less dependencies
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148 [01:29:12] <ifrah> Hi
149 [01:29:21] <graff_> mnuhmnuh: it is debian 9. stetch I think
150 [01:30:08] <graff_> will get more info in a bit, feeling
despondent about having my site down
151 [01:30:21] <mnuhmnuh> see the manpage for apt-get.
there's a couple or three "upgrade" types you can do.
152 [01:30:34] <graff_> even backups didn't work this time,
so somethign left some residue that will need to be deleted out
before they can take
153 [01:31:13] <mnuhmnuh> !tea graff.
154 [01:31:14] * dpkg hands graff. a nice lukewarm little porcelain cup
of tea with milk.
155 [01:31:17] <graff_> mnuhmnuh: yeah, that is a bit confusing.
i should be practicing daily upgrades on less critical servers so i
can get the hang of it and know what is an error to report to whom
156 [01:31:23] <graff_> :p
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162 [01:35:24] <CodeHunter> Debian only shows up to 1024x768
resolution, but my monitor has a max resolution of 1600x1200. I used
xrandr to force it to use 1600x1200, but running some programs like
VLC, wine programs, and others the programs are quite large as if it
is still using the lower 1024x768 resolution. Is there any way to
correct this?
163 [01:35:29] <mnuhmnuh> i may be confing apt-get w apt; the
former has upgrade and dist-upgrade (i use this) apt has more
option? checking.
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166 [01:36:36] <mnuhmnuh> no, apt uses full-upgrade instead of
dist- ...
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169 [01:37:49] <DunningFreddyKru> is the debdelta / localepurge
situation fixed yet?
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174 [01:39:46] <CodeHunter> Is my description understandable?
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178 [01:41:42] <graff_> mnuhmnuh: there should be 1 way to do
this
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180 [01:41:56] <graff_> not 3^3
181 [01:42:09] <graff_> which is how many ways there currently
appear to be
182 [01:42:18] <mnuhmnuh> seen distrowatch lately?
183 [01:42:21] <graff_> well, 3*3
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186 [01:43:10] <Tom-_> CodeHunter, yeah i think it's
understandable
187 [01:43:20] <mnuhmnuh> KISS - apt-get update &&
apt-get upgrade && apt-get dist-upgrade
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214 [02:04:45] <stochastix> Do the ZFS packages have encryption
enabled in the Debian 9 repos?
215 [02:05:15] <stochastix> As in, the newish encryption feature
in ZFS
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224 [02:16:41] <graff_> alright I got the backups to take.
225 [02:16:48] <graff_> any ideas on how to try this again?
226 [02:17:15] <graff_> apt-get update && apt-get
dist-upgrade didn't cut it
227 [02:17:39] <graff_> gitlab was left looking a backwards
hacked 90s web page viewd upside down in a mirror
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229 [02:17:44] <graff_> kind of didn't work
230 [02:18:03] <graff_> error report came up and then finally
errored out itself saying it could not make it
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232 [02:19:01] <graff_> my impression is that "dist"
means that it will upgrade to never releases of debian if need be?
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234 [02:19:14] <graff_> if that is the case, i feel that i'd
like to avoid that
235 [02:20:17] <graff_> oh, it has nothing to do with crossing
releases
236 [02:20:26] <graff_> alright I am going to try normal upgrade
237 [02:20:44] * graff_ holds nose and goes back under.. wish me luck
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243 [02:24:55] <blackflow> stochastix: I don't think so.
It's _very_ experimental feature btw.
244 [02:25:21] <mnuhmnuh> graff_: yeah, sometimes indiv. pkgs are
held back by related pks, si dist-upgrade to go forward all together
(replacing old).
245 [02:26:22] <mnuhmnuh> i don't see much of that in
stable, lots in testing.
246 [02:26:26] <DunningFreddyKru> anyone here use deb deltas?
247 [02:26:32] <stochastix> blackflow: Thanks, I didnt know it
was considered very experimental still. Will have to wait then :)
248 [02:27:15] <blackflow> stochastix: use LUKS under it?
249 [02:27:18] <DunningFreddyKru> can i dpkg exclude dirs from
deb deltas and can i dpkg exclude kernel modules after removal?
250 [02:27:28] <stochastix> blackflow: Yea, will have to do that.
251 [02:28:06] <graff_> btw, i had to *delete* /opt and
re-restore just to get my contributor pictures to not look like like
reflections from the 7th ring of hell
252 [02:28:18] <graff_> just imagine what residue was left
elsewhere that I don't even know about
253 [02:28:30] <graff_> using tar for backups btw, maybe there is
a way to make it handle that
254 [02:28:44] <graff_> (not portable though ofc probably)
255 [02:29:13] <rant> DunningFreddyKru: to the best of my
knoweldge no such thing is supported, so you may want to head to
OFTC and find a more developer type channel to ask about it, or try
the mailinglists this channel is for user support of debian stable
256 [02:30:21] <rant> implementation of delta upgrades would
require drastic changes to our system
257 [02:30:34] <DunningFreddyKru> uhhhh
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260 [02:31:16] <graff_> and now gitlab's debian update
server is down <.<
261 [02:31:29] <DunningFreddyKru> I'm not sure how to tell
you this but it exists.
replaced-url
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263 [02:32:55] <CodeHunter> Is there any way to fix it so
programs use the higher resolution I have set up?
264 [02:33:08] *** Joins: keon (~keon@replaced-ip )
265 [02:33:17] <rant> DunningFreddyKru: you did quite well at
telling me. :D
266 [02:33:21] *** Quits: [Brain] (~brain@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
267 [02:33:22] <rant> ,i debdelta
268 [02:33:23] <judd> Package debdelta (devel, optional) in
stretch/amd64: diff and patch utilities which work with Debian
packages. Version: 0.59; Size: 103.9k; Installed: 396k; Homepage:
replaced-url
269 [02:33:52] <rant> DunningFreddyKru: this is news to me.
perhaps you should just ask your question here then, rather than
asking to ask
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272 [02:34:15] <DunningFreddyKru> It also works over the onions
273 [02:34:50] <rant> DunningFreddyKru: though I would say that
you'd still be better served on OFTC in a more developer
centric channel, as this is more a developer kinda tool and not
likely to be well known here
274 [02:34:53] <DunningFreddyKru> The problem is it keeps
re-downloading language and other dpkg excluded content
275 [02:35:01] <DunningFreddyKru> what is OFTC
276 [02:35:31] <graff_> /connect irc.oftc.net
277 [02:35:48] <graff_> it's a network that wasn't
started by debian developers
278 [02:35:55] <rant> DunningFreddyKru: OFTC is another IRC
network where irc.debian.org points to now, and where all the
official channels are. This is the old legacy support channel, and
still the larger debian stable support, but its no longer oicial
279 [02:36:02] <graff_> because they didn't think that
freenode had issues
280 [02:36:13] <rant> graff_: heh
281 [02:36:30] <rant> graff_: thats a bit misleading, but amusing
to me
282 [02:36:50] <stochastix> blackflow: Im curious if you might
know, ZFS if, directly on the hardware, can correct the data because
of checksums. If on top of LUKS, does this get inhibited, just as if
ZFS was not on hardware like on top of RIAD, or in a VM or
something?
283 [02:37:31] <rant> DunningFreddyKru: things like the
debian-installer, mentors, testing/unstable, and other debian
support channels are all on OFTC, I'm not trying to be an ass,
I seriously think you'd be more likely to get help there
284 [02:37:32] <blackflow> stochastix: data checksumming works
regardless of the underlying medium
285 [02:37:43] <rant> DunningFreddyKru: believe me, I'd
rather people come here :P
286 [02:38:30] <stochastix> I know that it can tell you if the
checksums show corruption, but i read that unless the volume manager
has physical access to the drive, it is kind of crippled .
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289 [02:38:47] <stochastix> Perhaps this was incorrect info i
hope?
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292 [02:39:17] <blackflow> stochastix: you read wrong. it's
not about direct physical access to HDDs, it's about ZFS having
multiple disks an managing redundancy ITSELF, as opposed to it using
a SIGNLE device managed by hw raid or another mapper
293 [02:39:33] <DunningFreddyKru> If things aren't well
supported they should just be removed
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295 [02:40:06] <blackflow> stochastix: and in fact, ZFS has no
idea if something is HDD, SSD, a partition, a loopback device, CDROM
or a figment of its imagination with a truncate'd file, or gnop
on FreeBSD :)
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299 [02:40:51] <stochastix> blackflow: I see, so even if you give
ZFS multiple virtual disks in a VM, it can still manage data using
checksums and make corrections when needed?
300 [02:41:01] <blackflow> stochastix: absolutely.
301 [02:41:07] <stochastix> Oh nice.
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303 [02:41:29] <blackflow> it just needs redundancy (enough
copies). in fact, it even works with copies=2 on single disk vdev
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305 [02:42:29] <blackflow> stochastix: btw, being CoW, make sure
those virtual disks are raw and not qcow or something, for best
performance.
306 [02:42:45] <rant> DunningFreddyKru: true, but as I said this
is a legacy kinda channel, I been here since 2003 when freenode
became freenode and when this was still where irc.debian.org
pointed. I personally obviously dont know how to help you and I
believe from being here so long that not many others will either.
This tool you speak of is a development tool, we are largely users
here.. the developers are on OFTC, and may be
307 [02:42:51] <rant> able to assist you better. I'm just
trying to give you the best advice I can
308 [02:43:14] <stochastix> Why do i see then sometimes people
saying that ZFS volume manager prefers physical disks, so if you
have a raid card that the drives are going through, to make sure
that it supports pass through, rather than just even creating a
bunch of single disks controlled by the HW raid controller?
309 [02:43:51] *** Quits: msl09_ (~msl09@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
310 [02:43:54] <stochastix> Maybe there was another reason for
that all together?
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313 [02:44:12] <CodeHunter> I created a script to have the
computer create and change resolution to 1600x1200, but programs
like VLC still act as if I am running 1024x768. Is there any way to
correct this? Also can I make it so it makes the change permanent
without having to run the script after a reboot/logoff?
314 [02:44:26] <blackflow> stochastix: I thought I explained why.
it's not about physical disks, it's about redundancy. if
you put ZFS on a single mapped deviced backed by HW raid on multiple
physical disks, ZFS has no redundancy, it sees only ONE device.
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316 [02:45:12] <blackflow> stochastix: so if you have HW raid,
you put it in stripe or JBOD mode so it the OS and ZFS sees
individual devices.
317 [02:45:23] <stochastix> blackflow: I wasnt referring to
giving it a single mapped device, but rather JBOD right
318 [02:45:49] <stochastix> Some people say that even JBOD is not
good enough.
319 [02:45:50] <blackflow> stochastix: as long as ZFS knows about
mutliple disks in a vdev, it can manage redundant data cheksums.
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323 [02:46:06] <blackflow> stochastix: they don't know what
they're talking about.
324 [02:46:08] <stochastix> Just trying to figure out the details
of why people were saying that.
325 [02:46:21] <blackflow> should ask them to explain.
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328 [02:46:50] <blackflow> I mean, ZFS does data checksums even
on single disks. it's just that without redundancy, it has no
clue how to fix corruption.
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332 [02:47:14] <CodeHunter> If there is no answer to be found
here, is there another room in which to ask?
333 [02:47:20] <rant> DunningFreddyKru: you can find Paul Wise
(pabs) in #debian-mentors on irc.oftc.net and I believe he's
the one responsible for that
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335 [02:47:35] <blackflow> stochastix: I suppose it's one of
those common myths, like the "Scrub of Death", that just
persist with nobody actually understanding the situation.
336 [02:47:37] <rant> he's there daily and usually quite
helpful
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338 [02:47:46] <DunningFreddyKru> ty
339 [02:47:54] <stochastix> Yea, thats what Im wondering
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341 [02:48:37] <graff_> rant: practicing my backronyms. glad you
enjoyed it
342 [02:48:47] *** Joins: csmall (~csmall@replaced-ip )
343 [02:49:06] <rant> DunningFreddyKru: well I may be mistaken
he's the one who maintains that but w/e the other devs hang out
there too and any of them would know more about it than most of us
here
344 [02:49:36] <graff_> oftc is really more the place for complex
development questions
345 [02:49:50] <graff_> like anything having to do with dpkg on
that level
346 [02:49:52] <rant> yeah debdelta isn't something the
average user will be ooling with
347 [02:50:57] <rant> personally what I've just read about
it, it sounds silly to me.. I dont see why you'd want to
download only the changes.. but I'm thinking from a user not a
dev standpoint
348 [02:51:05] *** Joins: boomshankerx (~boomshank@replaced-ip )
349 [02:51:43] <graff_> there is also #debian-devel there and
#debian-offtopic. the latter being probably one of the best all
purpose irc chats there is
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351 [02:51:56] <graff_> if you can control yourself a bit. i used
to enjoy hanging out there
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357 [02:52:05] <DunningFreddyKru> graff i am asking about dpkg
358 [02:52:05] <blackflow> stochastix: as an example, people
often state ZFS should use raw disk and not a partition, oblivious
to the fact (which is easily testable), that given a raw disk, ZFS
will implicitly create GPT partitioning.
359 [02:52:10] <graff_> DunningFreddyKru: sorry
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362 [02:52:23] <DunningFreddyKru> because dpkg exclude is how
localepurge works
363 [02:52:38] <stochastix> blackflow: Yea lol
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366 [02:53:02] <blackflow> stochastix: meaning, it's better
if you partition it yourself first, at least you have control over
it, and in case of multiple disks can give partitions smaller than
raw disk size, so you don't get bogged down in exact number of
sectors needed for replacement drives.
367 [02:53:35] <graff_> what do you guys use zfs for anyway,
don't need backups right?
368 [02:53:45] <graff_> it has some fancy mechanism for that?
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370 [02:54:15] <graff_> i still use ext4 and then tar for
backups, rsync for /home
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374 [02:54:56] <stochastix> blackflow: Good point, if your new
drives look just a little smaller, screwed lol
375 [02:55:04] <michael2> I have some log files in a dir:
[access.log, access.log.1, access.log.2.gz] does anyoone know how I
can concatenate these into a single stream?
376 [02:55:32] <michael2> with the order preserved
377 [02:55:42] <blackflow> stochastix: yeah, I think some drives
include reserve sectors in total reported size, and some don't,
or something like that, so it can happen that same rated disks (eg,
both 1TB) from different providers actually have different number of
sectors.
378 [02:55:58] <graff_> michael2: are they all .gz?
379 [02:56:06] <foul_owl> Does debian still use denyhosts?
380 [02:56:08] <graff_> btw, not exactly useful, but there is
zcat
381 [02:56:48] <graff_> which is just like cat, but with gzip
libraries that allow it to decompress .gz
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384 [02:57:15] <michael2> graff_: no, they are as I've
described
385 [02:57:39] <DunningFreddyKru> ok so i'm on that oftc
server
386 [02:57:42] <RoyK> blackflow: all drives have reserve sectors
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390 [02:57:46] <DunningFreddyKru> what channels other than
debian-mentors
391 [02:57:57] <graff_> hmm, kind of sucks that zcat doesn't
automatically habdle non-.gz too
392 [02:58:24] <michael2> graff_: yep it totally sucks
393 [02:58:25] <blackflow> RoyK: I know, not what I was talking
about tho'.
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395 [02:58:45] <michael2> does anyone know of any alternatives to
zcat?
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397 [02:59:18] <RoyK> when you see "current pending
sectors" rising up to 10 - well - time to replace the drive
398 [02:59:40] <rant> DunningFreddyKru: idk them all as I
didn't agree with the switch and tend to boycott OFTC many of
us here are still rather sore over it.. but you can always connect
to OFTC and check their listing for debian channels.. there are a
LOT of them
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400 [02:59:42] <blackflow> RoyK: what I meant was some drives
will simply be larger than they're rated for, and some will not
include the reserve sectors in reported sector count. at least
that's my understanding of the difference between sector count
for same rated disks. I'll be happy to stand corrected.
401 [03:00:46] <blackflow> also the actual raw count of
reallocated sectors depends on the vendor. some swear it's okay
to have > 0 of those, and some state if you see >0, start
planning replacement as they proliferate fast.
402 [03:00:49] *** Joins: yagi (smonchi@replaced-ip )
403 [03:00:59] <rant> DunningFreddyKru: you can also consult our
wiki
replaced-url
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405 [03:01:19] <RoyK> blackflow: that's probably quite
correct - they overspec them a bit, both spinning rust and ssdss and
use the excess space for safety
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407 [03:01:52] <graff_> michael2: hypothetically globs are
alphabetized sort of.
408 [03:01:54] <graff_> for i in * ; do case "$i" in
*.gz) zcat "$i" ;; *) cat "$i" ;; esac ; done
409 [03:01:58] <RoyK> blackflow: reallocated sectors aren't
bad - pending sectors are
410 [03:02:12] <blackflow> RoyK: pending are just those waiting
to be reallocated on next fail
411 [03:02:16] <graff_> there is something to get you started.
but in reality it will need to use POSIX `find' in order to be
any good
412 [03:02:33] <blackflow> often a "solution" is to
write over the entire disk a few times forcing the firmware to
reallocate them.
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414 [03:03:14] <RoyK> well, if you have 200 pending sectors on a
disk, perhaps to make sure your last backup was successful
415 [03:03:40] <graff_> exapnding globs against patterns is *ok*
as long you are trying to match file names
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417 [03:03:56] <graff_> if you are trying to match strings
though, it has to be in a script with set -f
418 [03:03:59] <blackflow> I'd say _always_ make sure your
backups are successful :) there are plenty of other....
scenarios.... that render your disks useless.
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420 [03:04:08] <graff_> or it will expand against the names in
the filesystem
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424 [03:06:41] <michael2> graff_: you are pretty much a genius :)
that shell command is good enough, I'm not trying to match
strings or anything
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427 [03:08:28] <graff_> for all ostensible purposes, until you
find a real one
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こんなにも、世界はレプリスで満ちあふれていたのか？ もし、今自分の手を傷つけてみたら、同じように泡を立てて消えていくのか？)
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496 [03:44:52] <CodeHunter> IS there any room I can join to get
help with graphics issues?
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504 [03:48:02] <CodeHunter> I am trying to find out why running
1600x1200 some programs act as if I am running in 1024x768 and the
programs appear quite large. Although that is nice in that it is
easier to see, I would like for it to appear properly.
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513 [03:51:03] <graff_> anyone else here use gitlab with this
mirror
replaced-url
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516 [03:51:27] <graff_> i know generally we are supposed to use
official debian software only, but I had to go with whatever the
people who installed it used
517 [03:51:56] <graff_> anyway, this gitlab debian mirror appears
down for me. and not sure if botched up my restore from backup
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519 [03:52:10] <graff_> or if they have down server or moved
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533 [03:58:03] <blackflow> graff_: deb
replaced-url
534 [03:58:09] *** Joins: deicide- (~deicide-@replaced-ip )
535 [03:58:33] <blackflow> and 11.0.4 available for upgrade.
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537 [03:58:46] <graff_> what the heck is happening with my system
then
538 [03:59:09] <graff_> the restores from backup must have
botched up some of apt's keys
539 [03:59:21] <graff_> thanks blackflow
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541 [03:59:29] *** littlebit1 is now known as littlebit
542 [03:59:31] <graff_> blackflow: what do you mean by
"it's on stretch"
543 [03:59:36] <graff_> mine says stretch as well
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545 [04:00:06] <blackflow> graff_: the system is Debian stretch.
I tstarted as jessie, hence the apt source line. I never had to
update it for stretch it seems.
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547 [04:00:41] <graff_> blackflow: can yu try changing it to
stretch and see if an update will still run?
548 [04:00:50] <graff_> sorry to ask, but I am getting desperate
here
549 [04:01:05] <graff_> it seems like I have created a partially
restored frankensystem
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554 [04:01:32] <blackflow> graff_: yup, works.
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556 [04:01:40] <graff_> wow, thank you
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564 [04:03:28] <twb> When I do "ionice -c3 chrt --idle 0
sleep infinity", where are those properties visible in
/proc/$(pidof sleep)/ ?
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568 [04:05:06] <random_auroras> Is there a stability reason that
btrfs-dedup is not available in Debian stable or is it simply that
it wasn't included when stable was frozen?
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570 [04:05:37] <twb> random_auroras: when was it added to
btrfs-tools ?
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572 [04:06:06] <random_auroras> twb: Ah, I'm not sure.
Though I suppose it might have been added too late, since jdupes is
in stable.
573 [04:06:18] <neokuze> its posible to repair a debian os, after
make this commandline? "sudo rm -rf --no-preserve-root /"
574 [04:06:32] *** Quits: kri| (~kri@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
575 [04:06:54] <rant> neokuze: that would depend on the filesysem
and what you had to boot from
576 [04:07:03] <rant> but its not likely
577 [04:07:38] <neokuze> ok
578 [04:08:32] <twb> random_auroras: if it's part of
btrfs-tools and not third-party, is there a backport?
579 [04:08:43] <rant> people have survived gunshots to he head,
but I wouldn't recommend trying it :P
580 [04:08:46] <twb> random_auroras: 4.4 -> 4.7bpo
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582 [04:09:05] <twb> sorry, that's jessie. stretch has 4.7
-> 4.13bpo
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585 [04:09:44] <twb> I think that's the old package name as
well, because I don't see it in buster or sid
586 [04:09:45] * graff_ just randomly typed `make clean' not
knowing what else to do
587 [04:09:51] <graff_> wtf heh
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589 [04:10:02] <random_auroras> twb: Hm, it's not in the
changelogs... so it might be an arch-specific thing.
590 [04:10:47] <twb> random_auroras: AFAIK dedupping would have
to work by basically finding two identical files and cp
--reflink=always x y
591 [04:11:01] <twb> random_auroras: I don't see how you can
post-facto dedup at the block level, in btrfs, from userland
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593 [04:12:46] *** Quits: eamanu (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip ) (Quit: eamanu)
594 [04:12:48] <Raybih> The largest nontrinitarian Christian
denominations are The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
("Mormons"), Jehovah's Witnesses
595 [04:12:52] <random_auroras> twb: There's a call for it.
replaced-url
596 [04:13:23] <random_auroras> twb: In fact, I prefer dedup to
be batched/offline.
597 [04:14:15] <twb> random_auroras: it really depends whether
you can afford the downtime :-)
598 [04:14:59] <random_auroras> twb: Yeah, it's for my home
stuff. I'm not sure it's quite stable enough for work
production stuff... though said work servers could certainly afford
the RAM for online dedup way more than I can.
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601 [04:15:53] <random_auroras> Then again, if one doesn't
use the features marked as "unstable" it's probably
safe.
602 [04:16:16] <twb> random_auroras: I think you're thinking
of ZFS?
603 [04:16:32] <twb> random_auroras: and even there, the manpage
very clearly says "do not turn this on, it's a Bad Thing,
you will be sad if you turn it on"
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606 [04:16:43] <random_auroras> twb: Yeah. ZFS has online dedup
currently. btrfs only marks it as "to be done".
607 [04:16:58] <random_auroras> There's patches that do it
but they're WIP.
608 [04:17:27] <twb> My point is, even on ZFS, dedup sucks
609 [04:17:40] <random_auroras> I heard ZFS on Linux has bad
support due to license issues.
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611 [04:18:08] <twb> ZFS and Linux can't be shipped together
due to deliberate license incompatibility; Oracle can fix this
anytime they want.
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613 [04:18:30] <random_auroras> Ah. Typical really.
614 [04:18:42] <twb> In *theory* if that happened, ZFS could be
mainlined and then it might be more "native" as a side
effect
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617 [04:19:11] <twb> Currently it is going via SPL, which AIUI is
basically the kernel equivalent of wine
618 [04:19:27] <random_auroras> That's less than ideal.
619 [04:19:57] <twb> AIUI the main impact is that Solaris and
Linux memory models are different enough that ugliness ensues
620 [04:20:06] <graff_> Raybih: thanks for the random update
621 [04:20:21] <random_auroras> twb: Oh I see. Unfortunate.
622 [04:20:24] <twb> The other problem I have with ZOL, in
practice, is that ZFS assumes you're an enterprise user
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624 [04:20:43] <random_auroras> Double the pool, surely you can
afford it ~.
625 [04:21:07] <twb> so e.g. it just assumes that all storage in
its pool is spinning rust and spinning at the same speed
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627 [04:22:08] <random_auroras> That would be a problem for any
non-new system.
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629 [04:22:31] <twb> random_auroras: well you don't normally
mix 15K SAS and 7200 SATA
630 [04:23:26] <random_auroras> I'm thinking more 5200 vs
7200rpm.
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633 [04:25:07] <twb> The current situation, where ZFS can't
be mainlined, and btrfs is still FUDded, is less than ideal :-(
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635 [04:25:46] <twb> My prod stuff is *still* using md/lvm/ext4
stack
636 [04:26:16] <random_auroras> Yeah. I really wish for btrfs to
stabilize parity.
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638 [04:26:23] <twb> Which is primarily annoying because I have
to rsync --link-dest instead of just send/recv.
639 [04:26:37] <random_auroras> Though being able to detect
corruption would be very helpful on its own.
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641 [04:27:07] <random_auroras> Which is why I was seriously
thinking about upgrading a fair few backup/media drives.
642 [04:27:30] <random_auroras> (btrfs convert)
643 [04:27:32] *** Quits: Raybih (Raybih@replaced-ip ) (K-Lined)
644 [04:27:37] <twb> a modern filesystem is an order of magnitude
more complicated than the legacy stack, though, and there's not
a generation of people with experience dealing with the new kinds of
problems
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646 [04:28:18] <twb> For example, ZFS allocation method changes
at around 80% full, so if you don't get back under 80%, you can
rapidly make the entire system unusable
647 [04:28:56] <random_auroras> That's not fun.
648 [04:29:00] <twb> another common gotcha is people fill a btrfs
to 100% and then can't delete any files, because deleting
requires a (small) amount of writes
649 [04:29:20] <random_auroras> Hm, mount -o remount,nocow ?
650 [04:29:24] <twb> So some people I know basically make a
(non-sparse!) 1GB file in the root
651 [04:29:39] <twb> so they can truncate -s0 it to get
"wiggle room"
652 [04:29:50] <twb> random_auroras: that might work; I'm
not sure
653 [04:30:22] <twb> If it's just your porn collection I
wouldn't bother to btrfs convert
654 [04:30:36] <random_auroras> Nah, lots of music from some
bands that just plain don't exist anymore.
655 [04:30:39] <random_auroras> The CDs are long dead.
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657 [04:32:56] <random_auroras> Though even that sort of media
can be hard to recover. Torrents of all sorts tend to have a limited
lifespan.
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659 [04:33:28] * random_auroras would probably advocate "Archive
All the Things"
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707 [05:07:54] <m82labs> Anyone using neomutt in here?
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740 [05:31:24] <baconicsynergy_> hello friends :)
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742 [05:32:30] <dvs> where?
743 [05:32:38] <baconicsynergy_> what are some cool debian easter
eggs?
744 [05:32:47] <dvs> apt moo?
745 [05:32:47] <apt> mooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh
twice as much as you. I'm a cow, eating grass, methane gas
comes out my ass. I'm a cow, you are too; join us all! type
apt-get moo.
746 [05:33:06] <baconicsynergy_> apt-get moo
747 [05:33:41] <baconicsynergy_> oh i see. heehee
748 [05:33:59] <baconicsynergy_> its so cute <3
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750 [05:35:45] <somiaj> baconicsynergy_: apt-get moo
751 [05:36:05] <somiaj> baconicsynergy_: oh got that, aptitude
moo, then aptitude -v moo
752 [05:36:16] <somiaj> and keep adding -vv, -vvv, in order
753 [05:36:27] <baconicsynergy_> aptitude moo is hilarious with
increasing verbosity lololool
754 [05:37:14] <baconicsynergy_> I love at -vvv its like
"Stop it!"
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757 [05:41:07] <random_auroras> apt-get moo
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769 [05:52:42] <twb> apt: I'm pretty sure that's
factually incorrect
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771 [05:53:05] <twb>
replaced-url
772 [05:53:36] <twb> the "methane gas comes out" your
mouth, not your arse.
773 [05:54:21] <rant> idk I seen reports of people making
backpack devices for cows to catch the gasses
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777 [05:54:53] <rant> but really I feel the level of convo has
gotten a little silly in here
778 [05:55:00] <twb> rant: do you trust "reports" more
than Wikipedia? ;-)
779 [05:55:25] <twb> In Australia, CSIRO measure emissions using
"fart tents", but I think that's just a nickname
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781 [05:55:34] <rant> I dont trust anything anymore.. I'm a
practical skeptic
782 [05:56:00] <somiaj> though this should be in #debian-offtopic
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784 [05:56:56] <twb> Sowwy
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791 [06:01:44] <BoBeR182> How can I fix this
replaced-url
792 [06:01:45] <judd> Bug
replaced-url
793 [06:01:57] <BoBeR182> if I don't know the original
person in charge?
794 [06:02:44] <somiaj> are you the maintainer to that package?
795 [06:02:52] <BoBeR182> no
796 [06:03:03] <BoBeR182> but I want to find the maintainer and
get them to fix it
797 [06:03:09] <BoBeR182> I need this for my email server
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799 [06:03:56] <somiaj> how does this bug stop you from using the
package? The bug report has already emailed the maintainer about the
bug
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801 [06:05:33] <BoBeR182> it's not available from the repo
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803 [06:05:43] <BoBeR182> I'm on buster
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##replaced-url
805 [06:06:05] <somiaj> then get it from sid, but running a
server on buster is usually not suggested
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807 [06:06:25] <BoBeR182> it's not in sid
808 [06:06:28] <BoBeR182> because of the bug
809 [06:06:32] <BoBeR182> I tried that already
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811 [06:06:50] <BoBeR182>
replaced-url
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813 [06:07:07] <somiaj> it is in sid
814 [06:07:30] <somiaj> the bug just keeps it from migrating to
testing, it may be removed from sid if the maintainer doens't
update the package though.
815 [06:07:37] <somiaj>
replaced-url
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851 [06:47:17] <rant> so I been ever so slowly setting up a new
install via chroot to a USB-SATA drive, and I /think/ its all ready
to go now, just need to setup grub. The current install is to an SSD
on /dev/sda, I'd like to install the grub for the new install
on the external drive which has a 200mb /boot and encrypted root.
I'm really not sure at all how to do it. Any advice?
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853 [06:48:41] <rant> the fstab/cryptab is all setup but I have
nfc how to configure grub here
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867 [07:05:53] <rant> the main two things I'm unsure of
(aside from knowing virtually nothing about grub) is does it need
special config for a cryptroot, and how to select the right device
(external) to install do as I recall grub-install doesn't
accept actual device nodes, uses its own mapping scheme
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1051 [07:30:42] <klys> can anyone here compile seabios from git
clone
replaced-url
1052 [07:31:06] <klys> it should look something like "cd
seabios; make"
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1109 [07:36:01] <rant> cab and will are two different things.. I
have no need for it and if I did I'm pretty sure its packaged
with qemu already
1110 [07:36:08] <rant> s/cab/can/
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1119 [07:37:32] <rant> ,i seabios
1120 [07:37:33] <judd> Package seabios (misc, extra) in
stretch/amd64: Legacy BIOS implementation. Version: 1.10.2-1; Size:
128.1k; Installed: 667k; Homepage:
replaced-url
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1129 [07:38:50] <klys>
replaced-url
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1158 [07:48:10] <rant> thats nasty looking
1159 [07:48:45] <klys> yes it is
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1164 [07:51:44] <rant> could expect as much given that its a bios
and would have a lot of low level stuff
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1167 [07:52:16] <klys> well I have someone here not using debian
claiming it compiles straight out of the box.
1168 [07:52:35] <rant> why are you compiling it when its packaged?
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1170 [07:52:50] <rant> it doesnt seem like the kinda thing you
need cutting edge
1171 [07:52:51] <klys> I could compile the packaged version, or
try to
1172 [07:53:28] <klys> it has a "make menuconfig"
interface.
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1178 [07:56:31] <klys> it's giving me the same bravo sierra
and I don't see any debian patches.
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##replaced-url
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1197 [08:08:01] <rant> I dont see anything sticking out to me..
lots of warnings and it fails on linking that one file wih no clear
reason why
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1201 [08:09:13] <rant> whay can't you just use the packaged
version? I'd avoid this headache if I had the option :P
1202 [08:09:28] <klys> rant, this is from your attempt or my
paste?
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1204 [08:09:33] <rant> C compiler errors make me naseated
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1207 [08:09:53] <rant> no I didn't try it.. but really there
is no reason why I couldn't
1208 [08:10:09] <rant> other than I dont have any interest in it..
heh
1209 [08:10:16] <klys> I bet it'd work, just I don't
know for sure
1210 [08:10:18] <rant> but I'm not exactly busy
1211 [08:10:45] <klys> there is likely a problem with my build
system that I can't pin down for now.
1212 [08:11:10] <twb> klys: I would start by apt-get build-dep
seabios, then apt-get source seabios and examine debian/rules and
debian/patches for workarounds
1213 [08:11:31] <twb> klys: even if you intend to use upstream,
this usually answers "why isn't upstream working" by
examining how someone else already solved it
1214 [08:11:39] <klys> there are no debian/patches, and my
commandline was: debian/rules build
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1216 [08:11:57] <twb> using upstream's debian/rules or
debian's debian/rules ?
1217 [08:12:03] <klys> debian/s
1218 [08:12:09] <twb> Dunno then
1219 [08:12:32] <klys> the compiler and linker seem like
they're doing something they shouldn't
1220 [08:12:48] <twb> klys: you're using gcc8 though?
1221 [08:12:53] <klys> perticularly the assembler
1222 [08:12:58] <somiaj> klys: isn't there a ./configure
before the make?
1223 [08:13:00] <twb> debian 9 ships gcc 6.3
1224 [08:13:08] <klys> I'm using gcc-7, though I have used
gcc-8 on this
1225 [08:13:46] <klys> somiaj, there is an optional make
menuconfig, autoconf is not employed, no,
1226 [08:14:07] <twb> Have you done "apt-get build-dep
./" yet
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1228 [08:14:45] <twb> debian/rules build ===> [ ! -d .git ] ||
{ echo "Directory .git exists, aborting" >&2; exit
1; }
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1232 [08:15:19] <rant> klys: yes it compiled cleanly from git on
Stretch amd64 here
1233 [08:15:34] <klys> will paste, though I have been working
around perl:any with perl:i386 for some time now.
1234 [08:15:35] <rant> klys: I already had build tools all
build-dep installed was some acpi crap
1235 [08:15:59] <klys> rant, thanks for checking
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1237 [08:16:41] <klys>
replaced-url
1238 [08:16:51] <klys> twb, since you asked, ^
1239 [08:16:53] <twb> I successfully compile seabios/stretch on
stretch ==> seabios_1.10.2-1_all.deb
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1241 [08:17:21] <twb> klys: sounds like your system is broken
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1243 [08:17:45] <klys> twb, it is officially too broken to do a
proper dpkg-buildpackage, though it works like a charm.
1244 [08:18:12] <rant> klys:
replaced-url
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1246 [08:18:34] <twb> >shrug<
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1248 [08:18:46] <twb> if apt-get gets that confused, I would fix
that before trying to compile things
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1253 [08:20:10] <klys> I'm using perl:i386 to workaround some
irrelevan dependencies and conflicts.
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1255 [08:20:12] <rant> I thought that was the ouput of apt
build-dep seabios as well but I guess I'd done that in another
tab while git was cloning
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1257 [08:21:08] <rant> so I guess twb just rebuild the deb source
and I built the git source.. so.. seems like its def a local issue
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1259 [08:21:33] <twb> rant: I would guess it's e.g. partially
upgraded from jessie to stretch, and build-dep tries to finish the
upgrade as a side effect
1260 [08:21:43] <twb> or sources.list is confused
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1270 [08:28:24] <rant> for future ref, can I always count on a git
clone creaing a dir?
1271 [08:28:41] <rant> I'd made a dir for this not sure if it
was gonna dump crap in my homedir
1272 [08:29:03] <twb> rant: "git clone foo/bar/baz" will
generally try to make ./baz
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1274 [08:29:14] <twb> rant: "git clone foo/bar/baz quux"
will generally try to make ./quux
1275 [08:29:18] <rant> but its not to be assumed?
1276 [08:29:24] <twb> if you pass extra options, other things
might happen
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1280 [08:31:06] <rant> so to reiterate my earlier issue, can any
of you help me install grub in this chroot install I just did? I
installed stretch to an external drive with a /boot and cryptroot
and want to install grub on that drive not sure how
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1283 [08:31:41] <rant> I never learned to use grub.. I knew lilo
pretty well
1284 [08:32:26] *** Joins: meoffyou (~quassel@replaced-ip )
1285 [08:32:35] <rant> grub is all automagic like, confuses me how
to work it in more advanced usages
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1291 [08:33:56] <rant> I have grub-pc install in there and both fs
mounted to /mnt and /mnt/boot and fstab/cryptab setup
1292 [08:34:08] <twb> rant: that's mostly grub-install and
os-prober, not "core" grub
1293 [08:34:28] <twb> rant: I personally recommend refind (EFI) or
extlinux (BIOS) instead of grub
1294 [08:34:31] <rant> yes but how do I know grub-install will
write to the correct drive?
1295 [08:34:33] <twb> Much easier to manage
1296 [08:34:37] <twb> rant: that's exactly why
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1298 [08:35:08] <rant> this system has UEFI but I know nothing
about that and my system warns that enabling it may lock me out of
other OSes
1299 [08:35:19] <twb> do you have other OSs?
1300 [08:35:28] <rant> I got stretch on the ssd, yes
1301 [08:35:29] <twb> Windows cannot change between legacy and EFI
post-install
1302 [08:35:39] <twb> linux mostly won't care
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1304 [08:35:57] <twb> just put refind on a USB key and you can try
it without writing to your disks at all
1305 [08:35:59] <rant> I want to keep an install on the ttiny 8gb
ssd as a backup/rescue and have my main system on tthe external
drive with its own grub
1306 [08:36:16] <twb> it should automatically find all your
installed linuxes with no work, and you just need one-line config
file to set the kernel args
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1308 [08:36:28] <rant> idk what that means.. what is refind?
1309 [08:36:32] <twb>
replaced-url
1310 [08:36:37] <twb> it does the same job as grub
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1312 [08:37:17] <rant> I'd prefer to keep both OS seperate..
as one is external disk so I rather the ssd have grub for tthat
install and the external have grub for that install
1313 [08:37:25] <twb> wget --content-disposition
replaced-url
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1316 [08:38:00] <twb> (where sdz is your test USB key)
1317 [08:38:17] <rant> sounds a bit risky fooling with more stuff
I dont know about :P
1318 [08:38:33] <twb> >shrug<
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1320 [08:40:36] <klys> ok I have dpkg-dev running and an error,
will paste.
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1323 [08:41:11] <rant> I been slowly piecing together this install
for weeks now.. I can wait and hopefully find someone who can tell
me how or point me in right direction to just do what I want
1324 [08:41:15] <klys>
replaced-url
1325 [08:41:49] <rant> fooling with uefi and stuff may break my
working install in ways I wont know how to fix
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1329 [08:43:17] <rant> klys: you never did address why you
can't just use the packaged version and avoid this headache :P
1330 [08:43:58] <rant> klys: what system are you even building on?
it built fine for me on Stretch amd64
1331 [08:44:14] <klys> rant, I'm meaning to address the uefi
csm problem by amassing working code to deal with the problem.
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1333 [08:44:34] <klys> all right, debian-next then
1334 [08:44:38] <rant> heh
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1336 [08:46:35] <rant> did they ever make a way to walk back
things using apt's history? like how I just installed build-dep
for this compile.. or is it just looking in the log and doing it
manually?
1337 [08:46:38] *** Joins: selroc (~selroc@replaced-ip )
1338 [08:47:22] <klys> you can a) aptitude (?) b) use the log c)
apt-get autoremove d) deborphan
1339 [08:47:48] <rant> would build-deps be considered
auto-insalled?
1340 [08:48:07] <rant> never thought of tha
1341 [08:48:45] <rant> its not a big deal in this case, since I
had most all the build deps installed already it only installed like
one little thing, I was just curious
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1343 [08:49:28] <rant> I just always thought it'd be nice to
have a way to easily fool with things (compile) and cleanup the env
without so much fuss
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1345 [08:49:50] <rant> I have a bad habit of poluting my disk with
crap like that :P
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1347 [08:50:33] <rant> and a chroot is kinda overkill takes a lot
more space, time to configure, etc
1348 [08:50:45] <klys> well normal users should be using dselect
instead of just apt-get
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1350 [08:51:10] <rant> I haven't used dselect in over 10
years :P
1351 [08:51:21] <rant> figured it was deprecated by now
1352 [08:52:27] <klys> there's that funky synaptic thing if
you want a more current ui. as it stands, apt-get is not a ui
component.
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1354 [08:53:00] <rant> yeah I use synaptic a good bit.. its my
go-to when I need to browse.
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1356 [08:53:31] <rant> I only really ever used aptitude when
things were so FUBAR I was open to crazy ideas
1357 [08:53:51] <rant> mostly I used apt-get and I'm warming
to use of apt
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1361 [08:55:29] <rant> I'd resisted using aptitude cause its
interactive was a bit confusing and it checked the db before and
after making it much slower.. which synaptic does too and I ffind
annoying cause most often I just wantt to exit he program after not
wait while it reads the db again
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1364 [08:56:40] <klys> I admire dselect the most out of the bunch,
though usually I'm running a huge apt-get commandline if I need
anything too important.
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1366 [08:56:54] <rant> apt is nice but I find its formatting and
use of a pager when searching annoying at times.. I liked just
specifying sort or less or such myself rather than itt assuming it
1367 [08:57:34] <rant> apt is certainly less script friendly
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1370 [08:58:23] <rant> and I'm still not 100% on what all it
does automatically
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1372 [08:58:42] <rant> seems to update, iinsall recomnends, aand
clean and such
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1374 [08:59:17] <rant> automatic stuff is real f'n annoying
when you been doing things for a long time and now something is
doing all this crap "behid the scenes"
1375 [08:59:32] <rant> I dont like being unsure of whats going on
1376 [08:59:53] <rant> which is why I haven't warmed to grub
and for a long time had kept using lilo
1377 [09:00:40] <rant> just got to a point where lilo seemed more
difficult to keep using as it simply was lacking features
1378 [09:00:46] <klys> today would be a good day to confess this:
I regularly change perl and perl:any to perl:i386 in my
/var/lib/dpkg/status file. I don't think there's anything
wrong ith what I've done.
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1382 [09:00:57] <rant> heh
1383 [09:01:09] *** Joins: Rokixz (~rokas@replaced-ip )
1384 [09:01:39] <rant> klys: just say 3 hail rms, and 4 our linus
1385 [09:01:51] <klys> :)
1386 [09:03:01] <rant> I wonder how some of these fathers of our
system think of one another I never heard much of like Stallman and
Linus speak of one another
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1389 [09:03:29] <rant> which I assume is good, cause if Linus
don't like something you hear about it :P
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1435 [09:44:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1575
1436 [09:44:53] <siraben> rant: Linus and RMS are not friends
1437 [09:45:14] <siraben> rant: RMS said so in an interview,
because Linus is an "open source" person
1438 [09:45:35] <siraben> On the other hand, Linus accused RMS of
"black and white thinking" because of his very extreme
views on free software
1439 [09:45:35] <siraben> ll
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1444 [09:48:17] <rant> heh, sounds about right
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1451 [09:53:02] <hiwurld> the RMS following has become a cult
1452 [09:53:31] *** Joins: m8 (~m8@replaced-ip )
1453 [09:54:09] <siraben> hiwurld: What makes you say that?
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1456 [09:56:55] <babilen> → #debian-offtopic (or just
/dev/null) please
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1458 [09:57:44] <hiwurld> well just an opinion, just based on what
I've heard him say and read what his admirers say on random
places, don't have an exact example right now
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1460 [09:58:02] <hiwurld> babilen: oh, sorry
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1462 [09:58:40] <twb> klys: if you are editing
/var/lib/dpkg/status by hand, you are likely to break your system
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1464 [09:59:11] <klys> twb, turns out all I needed wsa a gcc
downgrade.
1465 [09:59:21] <twb> righto
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1468 [09:59:30] <twb> apt only offers one conflict resolution
1469 [09:59:46] <twb> if you have such issues regularly, consider
e.g. aptitude, which lets you micromanage conflict resoluton
1470 [10:00:02] <twb> it's really hard to show how to do it
over irc tho, so I won't bother
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1472 [10:00:17] <rant> I was going to suggest it was a
compiler/libc issue but you kept avoiding my questions for w/e
reason :P
1473 [10:00:28] <klys> only when things depend on perl, which is
an interpreter and has arch-independent libs.
1474 [10:00:42] <rant> I guess cause you didnt want to say you
weren't using stable
1475 [10:00:54] *** Quits: conta (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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1477 [10:03:40] *** Joins: zonesl (~zonesl@replaced-ip )
1478 [10:05:18] *** Joins: ToBeCloud (uid51591@replaced-ip )
1479 [10:06:28] <twb> the only time I deal with multiarch is when
cross-compiling (easy) or dealing with proprietary crap (you've
already lost)
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1483 [10:08:36] *** Joins: KdeKris (bc92ca75@replaced-ip )
1484 [10:08:43] <KdeKris> I broke it. Totally borked. Luckily I
have a bootable usb handy. I blacklisted radeon module from the
kernel and ran update-initramfs -u, the rebooted. Attempting to
force amdgpu module to take over. Got dropped to cli login. Okay,
tried logging in then issue startx. Returned "cannot
communicate with xserver". well alrighty then. So I undo the
blacklist while in the cli and update-initramfs again. Should fix
this right? nope. drop
1485 [10:08:45] *** Joins: annadane (~annadane@replaced-ip )
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1487 [10:08:58] *** Joins: winem_ (~quassel@replaced-ip )
1488 [10:09:20] <KdeKris> So now I'm booted from my thumb
drive and wondering how to fix my shit, because I'm getting
pretty frustrated with this.
1489 [10:09:23] *** Quits: forgotmynick (uid24625@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
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1491 [10:09:53] *** Quits: CopperPotato (~Copprman@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
1492 [10:10:04] <twb> KdeKris: lspci -nn | grep VGA
1493 [10:10:24] *** Joins: iranzo_ (~iranzo@replaced-ip )
1494 [10:10:38] <KdeKris> I'm on my bootable thumb drive. No
lspci command
1495 [10:10:59] <twb> apt install it then
1496 [10:11:06] *** Quits: zonesl (~zonesl@replaced-ip ) (Client Quit)
1497 [10:11:16] <KdeKris> unable to locate package
1498 [10:11:25] <twb> or find some other way to get the name and
make:model codes for your video card
1499 [10:11:40] *** Joins: afidegnum (~afidegnum@replaced-ip )
1500 [10:11:50] <KdeKris> video card is AMD FirePr 6100m
1501 [10:11:55] <KdeKris> I could just tell you that.
1502 [10:12:03] <twb> I don't know what that actually means
though
1503 [10:12:05] <rant> thats irrelevant
1504 [10:12:18] <twb> by make and model I meant [8086:0a06] (rev
09)
1505 [10:12:18] *** Quits: erasmus (~erasmus@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1506 [10:12:29] <KdeKris> Ah, gotcha.
1507 [10:12:44] <twb> udevadm can probably tell you
1508 [10:12:58] <rant> when it comes to us looking up support for
hardware we need the vend/prod id codes because thats what the
drivers go by to claim something and more than one vend/prod id code
can have the same "name"
1509 [10:13:02] <towo^work> lspci is in pciutils
1510 [10:13:20] <twb> Anyway that was really just tier 1 helpdesk;
I don't know about fixing your system short of undoing the
changes you did, and then re-generating the ramdisk --- which you
already tried
1511 [10:13:34] *** Quits: nwm (~nwm@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1512 [10:13:58] <KdeKris> installing pciutils now.
1513 [10:14:32] <rant> KdeKris: why were you switching drivers to
begin with, was there a problem?
1514 [10:14:38] <KdeKris> 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller
[0300]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Saturn XT [FirePro
M6100] [1002:6640]
1515 [10:14:45] <twb> cool
1516 [10:15:00] *** Joins: emrullah (~emrullah@replaced-ip )
1517 [10:15:09] <twb> !hcl
1518 [10:15:09] <dpkg> [hcl] Hardware Compatibility Lists for
Linux include
replaced-url
1519 [10:15:11] <KdeKris> Was having issues with new gpu not
performing, and everything being run through llvmpipe software
rendering instead of hardware rendering
1520 [10:16:33] <twb> kmuto.jp says the the radeon driver should
work on that card for 3.16 onwards
1521 [10:16:36] *** Joins: border-man (~stepan@replaced-ip )
1522 [10:18:05] <rant> KdeKris: did you install
firmware-amd-graphics? this may be required to use the card fully
1523 [10:18:06] <KdeKris> That it does. Yet, it does not seem to
be working with my machine
1524 [10:18:27] *** Quits: briner (~briner@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1525 [10:18:31] <KdeKris> rant, yes, I had all the correct
firmware and packages installed.
1526 [10:18:38] <rant> mine works without it but only partially
1527 [10:18:55] <KdeKris> towo^work was awesome yesterday in
helping me through all of this.
1528 [10:19:11] <KdeKris> I definitely owe him/her a beer.
1529 [10:20:03] <twb> you did "update-initramfs -u" ---
suggest "-k all" if you were doing that from a different
kernel
1530 [10:20:33] <twb> When X fails to start, read Xorg.0.log as
the first step
1531 [10:20:42] <rant> KdeKris: modinfo amdgpu | grep 6640 returns
nothing on my stretch system, yet modinfo radeon | grep 6640 does
1532 [10:20:52] <rant> which means amdgpu will not claim that hw
1533 [10:20:55] <twb> rant: nice
1534 [10:20:57] *** Joins: briner (~briner@replaced-ip )
1535 [10:21:11] <rant> which explains why you had run into issues
blacklisting radeon and forcing amdgpu
1536 [10:21:21] <KdeKris> I did update-initramfs -u, when
blacklisting, and when removing the blacklist
1537 [10:21:21] *** Quits: citypw (~citypw@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
1538 [10:21:48] *** Quits: crtcji (~crtcji@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
1539 [10:22:13] <KdeKris> I'll grab a copy of Xorg.0.log for
you, give me a second.
1540 [10:22:15] <twb> KdeKris: how many kernels are in /boot
1541 [10:22:20] <twb> 1 or >1 ?
1542 [10:22:29] <KdeKris> four, I belive
1543 [10:22:32] <twb> if >1, make sure update-initramfs updated
the correct kernel
1544 [10:22:46] <twb> just check mtimes is probably easiest --- ls
-lt
1545 [10:23:06] <twb> -k all will update ALL ramdisks; -k 4.16....
will do whatever one you ask for
1546 [10:23:06] <KdeKris> It should have only updated the kernel I
was booting with correct?
1547 [10:23:14] <twb> KdeKris: yeah probably
1548 [10:23:23] <twb> KdeKris: chroots &c may confuse it
1549 [10:23:46] <KdeKris> I only had 4.16 booted.
1550 [10:24:05] <rant> linux kernel drivers work like this, they
may be compiled in or loaded dynamically whether or not you have any
hw they support, they use aliases which list specific vend/prod id
codes which they will "claim" and if those codes arent
aliased, the driver will not claim the hw
1551 [10:24:28] *** Quits: msl09_ (~msl09@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1552 [10:24:32] <rant> in this case amdgpu in stretch's
kernel will not claim that hw cause its aliased in radeon not amdgpu
1553 [10:24:42] *** Quits: jadesoturi (~jadesotur@replaced-ip ) (Quit: %lagging out...%)
1554 [10:24:47] <KdeKris> Plus, even if it did screw up all the
kernels installed, wouldn't removing the blacklist fix the
problem?
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1556 [10:25:33] *** Joins: deznuts (uid92154@replaced-ip )
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1558 [10:25:59] *** Joins: bowei_ (uid310704@replaced-ip )
1559 [10:26:18] <KdeKris> Xorg.0.log
replaced-url
1560 [10:27:03] *** bowei_ is now known as 18WAA1NF6
1561 [10:27:14] <towo^work> KdeKris, it's normal you
can't boot, remoove the config file in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/
1562 [10:27:32] <towo^work> there you set amdgpu, which does not
work for you
1563 [10:27:43] <towo^work> s/can't boot/can't startx
1564 [10:27:48] <KdeKris> So that's what's causing the
issue?
1565 [10:27:51] <KdeKris> so simple
1566 [10:27:53] *** Joins: jadesoturi (~jadesotur@replaced-ip )
1567 [10:27:53] <KdeKris> I'm dumb
1568 [10:28:17] <rant> its trying to load amdgpu which wont claim
your card
1569 [10:28:21] *** Quits: {41444d494e} (~kvirc@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1570 [10:28:33] <rant> I can keep saying it, but it'd be
better if you try understand that :P
1571 [10:29:13] <KdeKris> No, I do understand. I just forgot about
the config file.
1572 [10:29:23] <KdeKris> I have work to do though, so afk for a
few.
1573 [10:29:35] <towo^work> KdeKris, and with
xserver-xorg-video-ati package installed, you should not need any
x-config file
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1578 [10:30:09] <rant> though you have a different kernel version
than me according to this log, so idk if YOUR kernel will claim it
or not
1579 [10:30:26] <rant> you can reproduce my findings doing those
modinfo commands yourself
1580 [10:30:53] <KdeKris> I just removed the config file. I'm
going to try to reboot and see if it works.
1581 [10:31:32] <KdeKris> Unless anyone has any objections?
1582 [10:31:43] <rant> you're using 4.16.0-0.bpo.2-amd64, I
am using the 4.9.0 stock debian stretch kernel
1583 [10:31:47] *** Joins: Raed|Laptop (~Raed@replaced-ip )
1584 [10:31:55] <rant> so it wouldnt hurt to check modinfo
yourself
1585 [10:32:01] <KdeKris> 4.16 booted just fine after I first
installed it
1586 [10:32:08] *** Quits: SuperDome (~Spacebase@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1587 [10:32:13] <rant> but I think this demonstrates that its the
same in this regard
1588 [10:32:21] *** Joins: SuperDome (SuperDome@replaced-ip )
1589 [10:32:45] <KdeKris> back in a few, duty calls, then
rebooting and checking out modinfo
1590 [10:32:46] *** Quits: Selveste1 (~Selveste1@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1591 [10:33:17] <rant> KdeKris: always wipe front to back :d
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1600 [10:37:36] *** Parts: ifrahiman (uid310704@replaced-ip ) ()
1601 [10:37:46] *** Joins: Mottengrotte (~Mottengro@replaced-ip )
1602 [10:38:10] <klys>
replaced-url
1603 [10:40:14] *** Joins: RebelCoder (~RebelCode@replaced-ip )
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1608 [10:42:42] <klys> actually,
replaced-url
1609 [10:43:06] *** Quits: siraben (~user@replaced-ip ) (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.1))
1610 [10:43:36] <rant> I been sort of following you this morning
and even I dont know the relevance of your repeated mentioning of
perl
1611 [10:44:03] <rant> near as I can tell you been talking about
seabios which doesnt seem to have anyhing to do with perl
1612 [10:44:07] *** Joins: mauz555 (~mauz555@replaced-ip )
1613 [10:44:17] <klys> rant, I find it's the best way to run
amd64 and i386 packages on the same debian.
1614 [10:45:32] <rant> that only adds confusion to the relevance
for me, and honestly I was contemplating a nap.. I was just
menioning it cause I figured everyone else may be just as clueless
and thus you wont get any traction
1615 [10:45:59] <klys> I was too, thanks.
1616 [10:47:07] <klys> rant, seabios compiles, I have everything
working with gcc-4.9.
1617 [10:47:24] *** Joins: brokencycle (~brokencyc@replaced-ip )
1618 [10:47:34] *** Quits: iranzo_ (~iranzo@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
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1620 [10:48:23] <likcoras> Any general suggestions on setting up
forwarding incoming email at my own domain (eg.
likcoras@example.com) to my actual address (eg.
myaddress@gmail.com)?
1621 [10:48:47] <likcoras> Also allow me to send email as
likcoras@example.com through SMTP, if possible.
1622 [10:48:49] *** Quits: Shahnaz_ (~Shahnaz@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1623 [10:48:51] *** Joins: crtcji (~crtcji@replaced-ip )
1624 [10:49:12] *** Joins: Shahnaz_ (~Shahnaz@replaced-ip )
1625 [10:49:25] <klys> likcoras, procmail?
1626 [10:49:56] <likcoras> For the first part, right?
1627 [10:49:58] *** Quits: xcm (~xcm@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1628 [10:50:00] <klys> ye
1629 [10:50:17] <twb> klys: why do you even need i386 perl
1630 [10:50:42] *** Joins: xcm (~xcm@replaced-ip )
1631 [10:50:44] <klys> twb, a minimal system with chroot should be
able to be used with an i386 kernel.
1632 [10:50:49] <likcoras> Will look into, thanks! I've been
seeing hits for ssmtp/nullmailer, but these seem to be not as
well-documented overall.
1633 [10:50:51] <twb> hahaha
1634 [10:51:02] *** Quits: crtcji (~crtcji@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1635 [10:51:16] <twb> why do you want an i386 kernel?
1636 [10:51:28] <klys> meh, sometimes I boor i386 kernels
1637 [10:51:34] <twb> but *why*
1638 [10:51:55] <klys> historic reasons...
1639 [10:51:57] <babilen> Maintaining bit bmi?
1640 [10:52:20] <rant> klys: you on buster or something? I wonder
how they're addressing that issue
1641 [10:52:23] <babilen> klys: "historic reasons" as in
"didn't find time to sort things out yet" ?
1642 [10:52:25] * annadane wonders: if i use the freebsd kernel do i
suddenly become hostile towards the GPL and systemd?
1643 [10:52:54] *** Joins: msl09_ (~msl09@replaced-ip )
1644 [10:52:55] <blackflow> annadane: yes. you also have trouble
starting computers because of poor or nonexistent hardware support.
:)
1645 [10:53:48] <twb> annadane: yes also your palms get hairy and
you start to tremble uncontrollably
1646 [10:53:53] *** Quits: border-man (~stepan@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1647 [10:53:56] <rant> heh.. yeah I always commented on how lame
that bsd kernel config is.. seemed like its sparse options were
nonsensical.. keyboard: beige, white, black, gray .. etc
1648 [10:54:11] *** Quits: iranzo_ (~iranzo@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1649 [10:54:17] <rant> few settings it had were not really
relevant to anyhing
1650 [10:54:29] <twb> annadane: seriously, though, Debian
GNU/kFreeBSD isn't compatible with systemd, but you can run GPL
stuff
1651 [10:54:46] *** Joins: mellotto (~morpheus@replaced-ip )
1652 [10:56:48] *** Quits: graphene (~graphene@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1653 [10:56:59] <Unit193> annadane:
replaced-url
1654 [10:57:21] *** Quits: AimHere (~David@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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1659 [10:57:55] <twb> Unit193: aw
1660 [10:58:09] <twb> Not that I actually got very far with
GNU/kFBSD myself
1661 [10:58:15] *** Quits: BigPine (~BigPine@replaced-ip ) ()
1662 [10:58:18] <annadane> it's just an interesting cultural
thing. large numbers of people who use freebsd absolutely hate linux
and if you didn't hear the other side you'd never think
otherwise
1663 [10:58:32] <Unit193> twb: Looks like just moving to ports,
not fully going away. :)
1664 [10:58:46] <twb> annadane: well, if you only listened to RMS
you'd think GNU/Linux was pretty rabid, too
1665 [10:58:49] *** Quits: Mr_Gr33n (~None@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1666 [10:58:51] <twb> Unit193: ohhhh
1667 [10:58:53] <annadane> also true
1668 [10:58:55] *** Quits: graphene1 (~graphene@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
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1670 [10:59:26] *** Quits: conta (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip ) (Quit: conta)
1671 [10:59:27] <twb> Most peopel I know like that, the actual
reason is because their business model is ultimately selling
licenses
1672 [10:59:30] *** Joins: Sir_Designer (~Sir_Desig@replaced-ip )
1673 [10:59:33] *** Joins: graphene (~graphene@replaced-ip )
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1675 [10:59:50] <twb> it's easier for them to say "gpl
is bad!" instead of "maybe my business model could
change"
1676 [10:59:55] *** Joins: MrGr33n (~None@replaced-ip )
1677 [10:59:56] <blackflow> I was a FreeBSD contributor. All to
happy to have escaped that echo chamber of linux, GPL and systemd
hate.
1678 [11:00:04] <blackflow> *too
1679 [11:00:10] *** Joins: disposable2 (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip )
1680 [11:00:10] <twb> FWIW I hate systemd
1681 [11:00:34] <blackflow> Once I learned most of systmd trouble
is with poor or misunderstood config or distro defautls, I started
loving it.
1682 [11:00:56] <annadane> as far as i understand a lot of hate
came from when it was poorly documented upon first release
1683 [11:01:02] <rant> I dont love it but I stopped hating it as I
began to learn how it works and see some of its usefulness
1684 [11:01:21] <twb> annadane: different reasons for different
people
1685 [11:01:50] <blackflow> I love the unit files an the power
they have. All those kernel features, containerization and security
features one can apply to individual service, through one single
ini-style unit file.
1686 [11:01:56] *** Joins: oish (~charlie@replaced-ip )
1687 [11:02:10] <twb> blackflow: you can't write security
features to be opt-out instead of opt-in
1688 [11:02:20] *** Joins: BCMM (~BCMM@replaced-ip )
1689 [11:02:29] <twb> blackflow: for example, you can't say
"User=nobody for all units unless they override it
User=root"
1690 [11:02:37] <twb> instead you have to add User=nobody to every
single file
1691 [11:03:00] <twb> I have a backburner task to automate that
(and more useful things, like privatetmp)
1692 [11:03:39] <blackflow> nevertheless... all those features are
exposed through that one ini style file. I searched hard and long on
how to apply the containerization and namespacing features throuhg
openrc for example, or the seccomp filter.
1693 [11:04:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1581
1694 [11:04:02] <twb> blackflow: it's actually a "XDG
desktop-style" file, which is defined as "ini-like"
and ini is not standardized at all
1695 [11:04:03] *** Joins: zonesl (~zonesl@replaced-ip )
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1697 [11:04:12] <twb> There is no ABNF for systemd files
1698 [11:04:12] *** Joins: Vizva (~Vizva@replaced-ip )
1699 [11:04:24] <twb> StartExec= is a list, but MountOptions= is a
single string
1700 [11:04:34] <twb> That lack of consistency and clarity is very
confusing
1701 [11:05:03] <blackflow> yah it's a bit all over the
place. but it still allows all that through ONE SINGLE UNIT FILE per
service ;)
1702 [11:05:15] *** Joins: zonesl (~zonesl@replaced-ip )
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1704 [11:05:26] <twb> blackflow: I definitely have about 2 to 5
times more files under systemd than I had under metainit
1705 [11:05:53] <BCMM> twb: freedesktop desktop entries are fairly
well-defined
1706 [11:05:58] <blackflow> that's the whole point, that I
can use on file to run nginx server, unprivileged with adequate
CAPs, with readonly view of the filesystem, rw view of /var/log, and
a specific named AppArmor or SELinux profile? Priceless.
1707 [11:06:02] <BCMM> it's not just "like ini"
1708 [11:06:04] <twb> BCMM: there is an ABNF?
1709 [11:06:10] <blackflow> *one file
1710 [11:06:40] <BCMM> twb: i have no idea. but it's not
accurate that .desktop is as vague as .ini
1711 [11:06:55] <twb> BCMM: for example, does any specification
clearly state whether "MountOptions=x" and
"MountOptions = x" mean thesame thing?
1712 [11:07:00] <twb> Because in systemd, they do not mean the
same thing
1713 [11:07:04] *** Joins: zonesl (~zonesl@replaced-ip )
1714 [11:07:47] <twb> What about unicode normalization in keys?
Does that happen, or not? Are keys just bytes, of arbitrary or mix
of encodings?
1715 [11:07:48] <BCMM> twb: "Space before and after the
equals sign should be ignored; the = sign is the actual
delimiter."
1716 [11:07:53] <BCMM>
replaced-url
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1718 [11:08:04] <twb> BCMM: OK cool; systemd doesn't honor
that
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1720 [11:08:31] <twb> (At least, last time I looked, which was
mostly as at v215)
1721 [11:08:34] <BCMM> twb: not in the least surprised.
systemd's entire approach to everything is that systemd itself
is the standard
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1723 [11:08:43] <blackflow> well, systemd is a poor implementation
of a very good idea with NO existing alternative that does the same,
with the same or similar scope.
1724 [11:09:13] <BCMM> but .desktop entries are a genuinely
interoperable format with multiple real-world implementations
1725 [11:09:13] <twb> blackflow: which idea? Using displaying
emoji QR codes on the terminal to verify signed logs? ;-P
1726 [11:09:33] <blackflow> twb: the whole middleware thing,
"base OS blocks" one can use to build up an OS with the
kernel.
1727 [11:09:55] <twb> blackflow: I don't know what that means
1728 [11:10:04] <twb> blackflow: it sounds to me like you're
describing the job that Debian does
1729 [11:10:21] <blackflow> people lament that systemd The
Project, has consumed all those additional services, and then they
migrate over to BSDs which are..... the same thing, one big
repository of code as a "base OS".
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1732 [11:11:57] <blackflow> twb: I'm talking about there
existing one project that in its scope, in its codebase, in its SVC
repositories, contains the base building blocks that, along with a
kernel, is the base of an OS. it may be good, it may be bad,
depending on whom you're asking, but it's that. systemd is
*NOT* an init, init is just one small part of it.
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1734 [11:12:23] <twb> That's daft
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1736 [11:12:38] <twb> systemd and a kernel aren't alone
sufficient to do anything
1737 [11:12:45] <blackflow> yet. :))
1738 [11:13:02] <twb> I don't think systemd is going to
replace libblkid or util-linux, for example
1739 [11:13:09] <twb> or dracut
1740 [11:13:17] <blackflow> it did replace dracut.
1741 [11:13:22] <blackflow> systemd-boot?
1742 [11:13:26] <twb> no that's gummiboot
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1744 [11:13:33] <twb> dracut is the thing that makes the ramdisk
1745 [11:13:36] <blackflow> or is that not.... no wait,
that's just grub replacement. yeah.
1746 [11:13:43] <twb> dracut can put systemd as the init *in* the
ramdisk
1747 [11:13:54] <blackflow> yeah yeah. I confuzzled the two.
1748 [11:13:57] <klys> is gummiboot the package of the debian
secure boot apparatus?
1749 [11:13:57] <twb> and indeed, if you do not do this, systemd
doesn't work properly in a number of ways
1750 [11:14:11] <twb> klys: gummiboot is not necessary for secure
boot on debian
1751 [11:14:35] <klys> twb, I can't find the file BOOTX64.EFI
on any other package, tho
1752 [11:15:03] <twb> klys: mv vmlinuz BOOTX64.EFI
1753 [11:15:05] <twb> klys: done
1754 [11:15:29] <klys> so linux xounts as a 64-bit PE .exe file?
1755 [11:15:40] <twb> More realistically, "BOOTX64.EFI"
is just the thing EFI firmware will execute if it isn't told to
do something else
1756 [11:16:04] <twb> That can be linux in some cases, although
not realistically stock Debian linux
1757 [11:16:06] <blackflow> twb: here's the thing. system is
poorly implemented. but it does things many people (me included)
find very useful, and there are no alternatives. Now, I can keep on
crying that it sucks, but at the end of the day I'm not gonna
step up to write an alternative, so I might just as well stfu or
keep on using it and hope it's gonna improve over time.
1758 [11:16:23] <twb> blackflow: if you have a specific goal to
solve we can talk about that
1759 [11:16:37] <twb> blackflow: "it's all built from
one git repository" isn't a solution to a problem
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1762 [11:17:30] <blackflow> twb: yes I do. I want as simple as
possible ability to run, say, nginx, unprivileged with appropriately
defined caps for that (ports <1000 as non-root), with readonly
view of the fs without having to spawn a chroot and manage it, with
a blanked seccomp filter of stuffs it doesn't call, and a named
apparmor policy that's maybe different from the default.
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1764 [11:17:50] <blackflow> so far I have not been able to find a
solution that integrates all that without writing my own shims for
openrc for example.
1765 [11:18:21] <twb> blackflow: OK yeah systemd is probably the
simplest way to achieve that --- although AFAICT it has limited to
no apparmor integration as at 6mo ago
1766 [11:18:49] <twb> you could of course roll a smaller system
yourself using something like procd or cinit
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1769 [11:19:20] <twb> or just write your own init -- init itself
is about 10 lines of lua/perl/python/ruby
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1772 [11:20:02] <blackflow> twb: I could, but I do not care about
rolling anything specific to me, that will have a bus factor of 1. I
use linux for business purpupose, SaaS our company is providing,
it's not "just a hobby".
1773 [11:20:13] <twb> around 50% of a minimal debian install is
the allmodconfig kernel, though, so by far the easiest way to fit
onto a smaller disk would be to build a localyesconfig
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1775 [11:21:06] <twb> blackflow: ah sorry, I read "simple as
possible" as meaning "minimal" not
"turnkey"
1776 [11:21:10] <blackflow> and that standard support is the
biggest thing in all of it. until someone in the community steps up
with an alternative, and it gets adopted, supported and maintained,
systemd it is.
1777 [11:21:10] <klys> twb, you were right, efi shell knows the
kernel. I am impressed.
1778 [11:21:31] <twb> klys: it's more accurate to say that
the linux kernel knows how to workaround EFI being horrid
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1784 [11:24:20] <blackflow> twb: I wanna hear more about this poor
AppArmor support. it's something I have _yet_ to get on with
testing, and it's not for nginx as in the example above, I
actually have a use case where I wanna spawn a multitude of uwsgi
daemons, all from single binary, but with a different, named
apparmor profile for it. Is not AppArmorProfile directive from
systemd.exec(5) sufficient?
1785 [11:24:30] <twb> blackflow: ah I don't remember the
details, sorry
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1787 [11:24:59] <twb> blackflow: it was in a chat with one of the
other #systemd regulars
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1789 [11:25:15] <blackflow> twb: maybe you confused it with poor
SELinux support? and not for services, but for pid1 itself?
that's at least what I heard of from gentoo folks, but I
don't know details either.
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1791 [11:25:32] <twb> selinux integration is/was strong because
systemd was written for fedora and RH prefers selinux
1792 [11:25:45] <blackflow> something something "don't
use systemd on a strict SELinux system" (strict = no
unconfined_t)
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1794 [11:26:29] <twb> selinux tries to secure the whole system by
default; apparmor tries only to lock down specific "problem
children" like apache and firefox
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1796 [11:26:48] <blackflow> twb: in a broad, rough sense, yeah. :)
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1799 [11:26:58] <twb> So even without any special mojo, apparmor I
think is pretty straightforward
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1801 [11:27:22] <twb> Aha found my notes
1802 [11:27:28] <BCMM> twb: by encoding of keys, do you mean the
actual keys, or the values associated with them?
1803 [11:27:36] <blackflow> well anyway, I have yet to get on with
that part, so I'll know more when I test.
1804 [11:28:02] <twb>
replaced-url
1805 [11:28:04] <blackflow> meanwhile..... I'm totally
floored to see start-stop-daemon being used in default Debian
nginx.service. WTF
1806 [11:28:19] <twb> That was actually ##apparmor in Mar 2018
1807 [11:29:17] <blackflow> yeah, not sure what they mean exactly.
We'll see.
1808 [11:29:45] <twb> basically AIUI what it means is that instead
of pid1 just loading the apparmor policies, early
1809 [11:30:12] <twb> you need to have a separate apparmor
userland utility which systemd just treats as an "ordinary
citizen" and it's very hard to make it run as early as
possible, and force a reboot if it fails
1810 [11:30:26] <twb> I *think* that's the point
1811 [11:30:49] <twb> blackflow: in your case it probably also
means that systemd-machined stack doesn't integrate it cleanly
--- I personally don't care about that
1812 [11:31:01] <blackflow> yeah me neither, I don't do
nspawn and stuff like that.
1813 [11:31:06] <twb> fair enough then
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1817 [11:31:40] <blackflow> I hate containers. I prefer
namespacing and using the main filesystem with different views (eg,
readonly root + RW paths here or there, per service)
1818 [11:32:01] <twb> +1
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1820 [11:32:19] <blackflow> I spent too much time fighting with
bad container and jail implementations (yes, jails on FreeBSD, they
are good on paper, but very poor toolset/usability).
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1822 [11:32:39] <twb> any experience with zones? ;-)
1823 [11:32:51] <blackflow> no solaris experience at all :)
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1827 [11:33:23] <blackflow> I hear its good. Illumos. Bestest ZFS
implementation, they say. :)
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1835 [11:38:01] <ychaouche> hello #debian
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1838 [11:38:51] <ychaouche> what's the usual tool to change
services at startup ? is rcconf the right tool or does
dpkg-reconfigure handle this kind of task ?
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1842 [11:39:52] <blackflow> ychaouche: "change services at
startup"?
1843 [11:40:06] <klys> ychaouche, systemd may need a file in
/etc/systemd/system.
1844 [11:40:45] <ychaouche> sorry, I meant decide what services
start or don't start after system starts.
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1847 [11:41:06] <ychaouche> the /etc/rc.d/ directory
1848 [11:41:16] <ardualabs> systemctl list-unit-files
--type=service
1849 [11:41:31] <blackflow> ychaouche: with Debian Jessie onwards
it's systemd's `systemctl` command that manages all that.
1850 [11:41:49] <ychaouche> blackflow: thanks ! will check out the
man page I guess
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1852 [11:42:21] <ardualabs> ychaouche: that command should give
you a list of services and what their status (enabled/disabled) is
1853 [11:42:58] <ychaouche> ardualabs: what's the command for
changing the *startupability* of a service ?
1854 [11:43:09] <ardualabs> systemctl again.
1855 [11:43:17] <blackflow> ychaouche: systemctl is the one ring
to rule them all in service management on systemd distros.
1856 [11:43:20] <ardualabs> As you said, the man page is a good
place to start.
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1900 [12:12:43] <KdeKris> Okay, I'm back
1901 [12:13:55] <KdeKris> last thing I did was remove the config
file that was telling my pc to use the amdgpu drivers, was going to
reboot. There was something else that I was going to do as well.
Don't remember though.
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1916 [12:18:03] <zonesl> After make install Weechat, what is the
reason for the directory /usr/local/lib/weechat/plugins/*.la or *.a?
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1924 [12:23:34] <zonesl> Direct Source code compilation
installation.
1925 [12:23:35] <KdeKris> towo^work, deleting that one config file
got me back in to gui. Thanks a ton man. Idk why I didn't
remember it before.
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1928 [12:25:01] <towo^work> KdeKris, and for your accelleration
problem, you really should ask in #radeon, as i have said yesterday
1929 [12:25:48] <KdeKris> I've joined #radeon. I'll ask
over there now. Thanks a ton for all your help. I owe you.
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1933 [12:30:06] <BCMM> KdeKris: by the way, #radeon is a
relatively low-traffic channel, so be prepared to hang around for a
bit after asking your question. it'll probably take a *lot*
longer to get a response than on #debian
1934 [12:30:41] <BCMM> they're really good at sorting out
issues with AMD graphics, though
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1938 [12:31:49] <KdeKris> Thanks for the tip BCMM, already got a
response. Someone asked for pastebin of dmesg.
1939 [12:32:17] <KdeKris> Obviously, just getting more info before
deciding if they can even help, but still, it's a step in the
right direction.
1940 [12:32:21] <BCMM> ah, sorry for the needless warning then!
it's just that sometimes people get discouraged and give up too
soon on the small channels
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1948 [12:35:07] <KdeKris> No, it's definitely appreciated.
I've been on and off irc for a few years now, and I've
seen slow channels before. It's always good to know ahead of
time if it might be a slow channel you're getting into though.
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1952 [12:40:09] <graff_> i can't handle slow channels
1953 [12:40:30] <graff_> usually is you start spewing profanity,
you quickly find out there are 100 devs reading it
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1955 [12:41:02] <KdeKris> haha, slow sometimes means lazy,
sometimes means busy.
1956 [12:41:08] <KdeKris> Never know till you try.
1957 [12:41:15] <babilen> → offtopic ?
1958 [12:41:41] <graff_> i can't believe you are still here
babilen
1959 [12:41:48] <graff_> must have been more than 5 years now
1960 [12:42:03] <graff_> heh
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1962 [12:42:16] <babilen> *shrug*
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1964 [12:42:58] <BCMM> his account is 6mo older than mine!
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1971 [12:45:56] <zonesl> Missing *.so file
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1981 [12:52:10] <hans_> any idea what causes console-kit-daemon to
create a million threads? running debian 9,
replaced-url
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1985 [12:53:21] <hans_> and the weird thing is, the system
isn't really doing *anything* at all, except running an openssh
login server
1986 [12:53:36] <rafalcpp> why "ag" is removed from
debian buster??
1987 [12:53:38] <rafalcpp>
replaced-url
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1989 [12:54:17] <hans_> what is ag?
1990 [12:54:20] <rafalcpp> is in Stretch
1991 [12:54:24] <rafalcpp> hans_: like grep but better
1992 [12:54:48] <hans_> like perl then?
1993 [12:54:50] <hans_> j/k
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1995 [12:55:59] <hans_> rafalcpp, there's a package called
`agrep`, may be that?
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1999 [12:56:33] <hans_> rafalcpp, (but it's in the non-free
repo)
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2005 [12:58:45] <BCMM>
replaced-url
2006 [12:59:18] <BCMM>
replaced-url
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2011 [13:02:07] <BCMM> i've never been able to make head or
tail of auto-removal messages in general...
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2019 [13:08:01] <petn-randall> BCMM: "FTBFS" means
"failed to build from source". So the package didn't
build anymore, which is a RC bug.
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2021 [13:08:39] <BCMM> petn-randall: right, but what's the
relationship between cram and silversearcher-ag?
2022 [13:08:53] <BCMM> it's cram that FTBFS according to that
message, right?
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2049 [13:20:04] <petn-randall> BCMM:
replaced-url
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2051 [13:20:28] <petn-randall> "Migration status: Blocked.
Can't migrate due to a non-migratable dependency. Check status
below:\nBlocked by: cram"
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2054 [13:22:20] <BCMM> petn-randall: oh right! it's a
build-time dependency, not a run-time one. sorry about that!
2055 [13:22:32] <petn-randall> BCMM: Ah, I was wondering the same.
2056 [13:22:45] <BCMM> rafalcpp_: ^
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2109 [13:54:42] <rafalcpp_> petn-randall: ah
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2116 [14:00:37] <alkisg> Hi, I'm updating a package to
systemd. Am I supposed to manually delete the
/etc/init.d/my-old-service on postinst? Because I see that
they're not automatically removed...
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2134 [14:10:17] <petn-randall> alkisg: Yes, they're
considered conffiles, and are not touched.
2135 [14:11:10] <alkisg> petn-randall: hmm, I think it would make
sense for them to be automatically removed if they weren't
modified. Thanks, I'll remove them on postinst.
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2144 [14:15:36] <petn-randall> alkisg: Is
"my-old-service" from an official Debian package, or
something you wrote yourself?
2145 [14:15:54] <alkisg> petn-randall: official debian package,
epoptes and epoptes-client
2146 [14:16:03] <alkisg> I'm preparing the new version that
will arrive in buster
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2149 [14:17:29] <petn-randall> alkisg: Are you preparing, or
preparing for the package?
2150 [14:17:40] <alkisg> I'm the package developer/maintainer
2151 [14:17:46] <petn-randall> I see
2152 [14:17:50] <alkisg> So the question is, for users having
epoptes installed and upgrading from stretch to buster, should I
remove the obsolete sysvinit conffiles or just leave them there?
2153 [14:18:17] <petn-randall> I'm sure there are already
tools to add in debian/rules that will check if the init script was
modified, and if not just removes it during postinst.
2154 [14:18:18] <abrotman> they're obsolete ?
2155 [14:18:50] <alkisg> abrotman: well I stop relying on
sysvinit, stop depending on lsb_base for the functions etc, so
...yes?
2156 [14:19:00] <hans_> update-grub doesn't see/add the
/boot/ipxe.lkrn kernel to the boot options, here's the output
replaced-url
2157 [14:19:03] <petn-randall> You might want to ask about it in
#debian-mentors how to accomplish this.
2158 [14:19:17] <alkisg> petn-randall: thanks, here in freenode?
2159 [14:19:26] <alkisg> (nope, going...)
2160 [14:19:34] <petn-randall> alkisg: all on OFTC. There's
also #debian-devel there.
2161 [14:19:41] <alkisg> Ty, going there
2162 [14:20:15] <hans_> how can i get /boot/ipxe.lkrn added to the
grub boot menu?
2163 [14:20:57] <petn-randall> hans_: Where does the file
/boot/ipxe.lkrn come from, and what is it?
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2165 [14:22:45] <hans_> petn-randall, it comes from running git
clone --depth 1 git://git.ipxe.org/ipxe.git ; cd ipxe/src; make
clean; wget
replaced-url
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2167 [14:23:07] <hans_> petn-randall, it's a weird little
network bootloader thing, allowing you to boot linux kernels over
http
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2169 [14:23:49] <petn-randall> hans_: Have you already had a look
at the "ipxe" package? Seems like it already does this
without having to brew your own.
2170 [14:23:51] <alkisg> hans_:
replaced-url
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2172 [14:24:13] <alkisg> Yup. And if you want, you can
dpkg-divert/override it, while keeping the grub.d snippet
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2178 [14:24:32] <hans_> petn-randall, but ipxe package does not
include my boot script,
replaced-url
2179 [14:24:32] <alkisg> Or you could just get /etc/grub.d/20_ipxe
from that package
2180 [14:24:51] <alkisg> hans_: you can provide a script in grub
2181 [14:24:56] <alkisg> You don't have to embed it to ipxe
2182 [14:25:09] <alkisg> It can read it as an initrd image,
defined in grub
2183 [14:25:12] <annadane> installed a bunch of mesa packages from
backports and now trying to install them back to stretch, and
it's saying "already the latest version", what am i
doing wrong
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2185 [14:25:22] <petn-randall> hans_: You're trying to boot
Ubuntu?
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2187 [14:25:34] <petn-randall> hans_: You might then want to ask
in #ubuntu.
2188 [14:26:04] <hans_> alkisg, in theory, yeah, but there was
some reasons i had to embed them... i think it was keyboard layout
incompatibilities with the html5 console emulator thing i have to
use to control grub and ://
2189 [14:26:31] <alkisg> hans_: ok, install the ipxe package and
override ipxe.lkrn with your own
2190 [14:27:00] <hans_> alkisg, already tried that, but it still
wasn't added to the grub bootloader
2191 [14:27:16] <hans_> normally when one runs `apt install ipxe`
, it is added, but it wasn't on this system
2192 [14:27:17] <petn-randall> It might not work in Ubuntu, who
knows.
2193 [14:27:27] * alkisg thinks setting up netbooting concerns the host
os, while problems with the netbooted os, the target os
2194 [14:27:50] <hans_> petn-randall, it never boots into ipxe,
grub does not consider the possibility of booting into ipxe,
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2196 [14:28:06] <alkisg> hans_: if your host os is ubuntu and not
debian, then yes, ask in #ubuntu, as they have a different package
for grub-ipxe
2197 [14:28:13] <hans_> my host system is debian 9.
2198 [14:28:15] <annadane>
replaced-url
2199 [14:28:21] <alkisg> OK, then here is the correct place to ask
2200 [14:28:28] <alkisg> apt install ipxe should put it in grub
2201 [14:28:35] <hans_> yeah i know, but it didn't :/
2202 [14:28:40] <hans_> i can try to uninstall and reinstall ipxe
tho
2203 [14:28:49] <alkisg> What's the output of dpkg -L ipxe?
2204 [14:29:03] <petn-randall> hans_: Do you get a
/etc/grub.d/20_ipxe? And what alkisg said.
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2209 [14:30:32] <hans_> dpkg -L ipxe:
replaced-url
2210 [14:30:32] <dpkg> ii ipxe:
replaced-url
2211 [14:30:38] <hans_> petn-randall, /etc/grub.d/20_ipxe does not
exist
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2213 [14:31:11] <alkisg> hans_: well see your paste; did you
manually delete it?
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2215 [14:31:40] <hans_> oh
2216 [14:31:46] <hans_> damn, sorry, no, /etc/grub.d/20_ipxe does
exist
2217 [14:31:47] <alkisg> hans_: try to purge (not remove) and then
reinstall that package
2218 [14:31:49] <alkisg> OK
2219 [14:32:04] <alkisg> Run update-grub, and see if it gets in
grub.cfg
2220 [14:32:11] <alkisg> Are you using BIOS or UEFI?
2221 [14:32:38] <hans_> i don't know, honestly, it's an
Xen VPS i'm renting
2222 [14:32:46] <alkisg> ls /sys/firmware/efi
2223 [14:32:50] <alkisg> If it's there, you're using
uefi
2224 [14:33:06] <hans_> ls: cannot access
'/sys/firmware/efi': No such file or directory
2225 [14:33:23] <alkisg> OK, you're using bios, so ipxe.lkrn
should be in your /boot/grub/grub.cfg. Is it?
2226 [14:33:42] <alkisg> Maybe it is, and your problem is that
your VPS isn't actually using your grub? :)
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2230 [14:34:27] <hans_> /boot/grub/grub.cfg does not exist (erm,
double checked)
2231 [14:34:28] <petn-randall> !confmiss
2232 [14:34:28] <dpkg> You have to especially tell the packaging
system to reinstall config files because when they are gone, it is
assumed that you want them to stay deleted. "aptitude -o
DPkg::Options::='--force-confmiss' reinstall
$packagename" will restore them (man dpkg for details). If the
package uses <ucf> for config file management, ask me about
<ucf confmiss>.
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2234 [14:34:38] <hans_> the folder has default device.map menu.lst
menu.lst~ menu.lst.save
2235 [14:34:49] <petn-randall> alkisg: Deleted files won't
come back that way. ^^^
2236 [14:35:16] <jelly> grub.cfg is not a conffile is it
2237 [14:35:19] <alkisg> petn-randall: apt purge + apt install
does reinstall config files
2238 [14:35:30] <jelly> so confmiss is not relevant
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2242 [14:36:04] <alkisg> hans_: that's grub 0.97 or
something, the ipxe package only supports the newer grub2
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2244 [14:36:10] <jelly> that factoid should probably be more
specific as "config files" and "conffiles" are
not really the same thing
2245 [14:36:11] <alkisg> You'd need to manually edit the
menu.lst file there
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2247 [14:36:19] <hans_> notably /boot/grub/menu.lst has all my
kernels except ipxe
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2249 [14:36:27] <hans_> oh, crud
2250 [14:36:30] <alkisg> hans_: what's the output of `dpkg -l
'*grub*' | grep ^ii` ?
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2253 [14:37:06] <hans_> alkisg, 2 lines, 1: ii grub-common
2.02~beta3-5 amd64 GRand Unified Bootloader (common files) 2: ii
grub-legacy 0.97-72 amd64 GRand Unified Bootloader (Legacy version)
2254 [14:37:33] <alkisg> hans_: yup, for some reason you're
still using grub-legacy
2255 [14:37:51] <alkisg> You need to manually edit menu.lst,
autogeneration wasn't supported back then
2256 [14:38:01] <hans_> ok, i will try that, thanks
2257 [14:38:03] <alkisg> np
2258 [14:38:40] <hans_> any idea if ipxe requires any special boot
parameters, or just `kernel /boot/ipxe.lkrn` ?
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2264 [14:42:06] <shdeuce> Jello, guys! What's the recommended
IRC-client for Debian?
2265 [14:42:18] <hans_> `recommended`
2266 [14:42:23] <shdeuce> i know
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2268 [14:42:38] <blackflow> irssi. well, you asked.
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2270 [14:42:56] <hans_> i like hexchat, but that's just me
2271 [14:43:23] <shdeuce> Oh, yes, I forgot weechat exists.
2272 [14:43:35] <shdeuce> Thank you both.
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2274 [14:45:17] <hans_> does ipxe.lkrn need a initrd ?
2275 [14:45:26] <hans_> hmm, i wonder if there's an ipxe
channel
2276 [14:45:37] <hans_> actually, there is!
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2280 [14:49:53] <alkisg> hans_: it doesn't need an initrd. It
*can* use one, and then it should be an ipxe script with commands
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2282 [14:50:09] <alkisg> And yeah, #ipxe is more suited for this
:)
2283 [14:50:10] <hans_> neat, thanks
2284 [14:50:43] <hans_> i thought i had to embed the ipxe script
at compile time
2285 [14:51:58] <alkisg> (03:24:51 μμ) alkisg: hans_: you
can provide a script in grub (03:24:56 μμ) alkisg: You
don't have to embed it to ipxe (03:25:09 μμ) alkisg: It
can read it as an initrd image, defined in grub
2286 [14:52:10] <alkisg> You lost half an hour by not reading that
:D
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2300 [15:02:45] <hans_> i think i figured out why it's still
using grub 1.x
2301 [15:03:02] <hans_> it was probably a debian 7 upgraded to
debian 8 upgraded to debian 9
2302 [15:03:17] <hans_> does debian 7.x use grub 1.x by default?
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2309 [15:08:51] <petn-randall> hans_: Not wanting to confuse you,
but there was never a 1.x series of grub. Only 0.x and 2.x. :)
2310 [15:08:54] <jelly> hans_, I think grub-legacy was maybe
default in debian 5 or 6 if that's what you're asking.
There never was a legacy 1.x version, only 0.x
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2312 [15:09:28] <jelly> there were 1.98 and 1.99 versions, but
those where grub-pc ("grub2")
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2317 [15:10:18] <jelly> so if you're seeing something like
1.98 in wheezy, that's the newer code base
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2319 [15:10:29] <jelly> ,v grub-pc
2320 [15:10:30] <judd> Package: grub-pc on amd64 -- wheezy:
1.99-27+deb7u3; wheezy-security: 1.99-27+deb7u3; jessie:
2.02~beta2-22+deb8u1; jessie-security: 2.02~beta2-22+deb8u1;
stretch: 2.02~beta3-5; buster: 2.02+dfsg1-4; sid: 2.02+dfsg1-4
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2330 [15:15:13] <roylaprattep> What is the utility of
jessie-backports-sloppy?
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2335 [15:16:09] <roylaprattep> Or the difference between
jessie-backports and jessie-backports-sloppy
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2338 [15:17:06] <blackflow> roylaprattep:
replaced-url
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2340 [15:17:40] <roylaprattep> I read that, but I don't
understand, that's why I am here.
2341 [15:18:06] <roylaprattep> If I understand, I should to the
upgrade from sloppy before dist-upgrade?
2342 [15:18:16] <roylaprattep> e/to/do
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2344 [15:19:05] <petn-randall> roylaprattep: You may use
"*-backports-sloppy" if you never intend to upgrade the
machine and you just need to have it running for a few more months
before replacing it.
2345 [15:19:20] <roylaprattep> Ok.
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2353 [15:20:25] <roylaprattep> Thank you petn-randall
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2360 [15:24:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1611
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2382 [15:35:28] <moldy> hi
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2384 [15:35:43] <moldy> i am trying to remove a package (webmin)
2385 [15:36:09] <moldy>
replaced-url
2386 [15:36:21] <moldy> the problem is: the package hangs forever
on installation / dpkg
2387 [15:36:26] <moldy> so i cannot reinstall it
2388 [15:36:34] <moldy> is there a way to just get rid of the
thing?
2389 [15:37:01] <towo^work> since webmin is not in debian, ask the
vendor of that package
2390 [15:37:04] *** Joins: altendky (uid135382@replaced-ip )
2391 [15:37:20] <moldy> hmmm
2392 [15:37:33] <jelly> moldy, what does "dpkg -l webmin |
tail -n1" say right now?
2393 [15:37:36] <moldy> i think that's not practical in this
case. there is no way to just force-uninstall the thing?
2394 [15:37:54] <moldy> jelly: iHR webmin 1.860 all web-based
administration interface for Unix systems
2395 [15:38:11] <jelly> half-installed, reinst-required
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2397 [15:38:57] <moldy> jelly:
replaced-url
2398 [15:39:02] <moldy> it stays at 16% forever
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2401 [15:41:30] <jelly> how long did you wait, 5-10 minutes or
more?
2402 [15:41:42] <apollo13> moldy: isn't the more important
question why you are using webmin in the first place? *scnr*
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2405 [15:41:57] <moldy> apollo13: i am not
2406 [15:42:07] <moldy> apollo13: hi, btw :)
2407 [15:42:25] <apollo13> 👋
2408 [15:42:30] <moldy> apollo13: i am trying to turn a box that
we're not using for anything important anymore into a host for
gitlab CI runners
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2410 [15:42:48] <moldy> but i am running into docker tire fires :p
2411 [15:42:52] <apollo13> "we're not using for anything
important anymore" -- reinstall a minimal install?
2412 [15:43:22] <roylaprattep> apollo13: So bright answer.
2413 [15:43:24] <jelly> moldy, is there a
/var/lib/dpkg/info/webmin.preinst file present?
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2415 [15:43:44] <moldy> apollo13: yeah, i requested permission to
nuke and reinstall the thing, but i did not get a reply yet and in
the meantime devs are blocked by lack of CI runners ;)
2416 [15:43:49] <apollo13> haha
2417 [15:43:49] <jelly> it's unusual a package would hang
before the Configuring... step
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2419 [15:44:05] <jelly> a package installation*
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2421 [15:44:07] <moldy> rumors have it that there is some kind of
important data on the machine ;p
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2423 [15:44:22] <roylaprattep> Backup then reinstall.
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2427 [15:44:45] <moldy> yeah, i will eventually
2428 [15:44:56] <petn-randall> moldy: In that case you already
have backups, right? RIGHT?
2429 [15:45:05] <apollo13> petn-randall: haha
2430 [15:45:16] <moldy> petn-randall: i have no idea. this is
stuff from before i joined here :)
2431 [15:45:19] <apollo13> always those rhetorical questions
2432 [15:45:41] <apollo13> moldy: no idea about your webmin issue,
but what are your docker problems?
2433 [15:45:50] <moldy> currently i have root on the box but no
credentials for the hetzner account, i'm waiting for a reply
from the responsible person ;)
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2436 [15:45:54] <apollo13> aside from docker beeing generally
annoying
2437 [15:46:08] <apollo13> please tell me you got root via an 0day
:D
2438 [15:46:14] *** Quits: roylaprattep (1825f902@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Page closed)
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2442 [15:47:03] <moldy> via social engineering ;)
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2446 [15:47:42] <blackflow> moldy: what!
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2448 [15:49:05] <moldy> apollo13: trying to dig it up. i'm
fighting git on windows in parallel. bad day ;)
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2450 [15:49:34] <moldy> `level=warning msg="OOM monitoring
failed" error="cgroups: memory cgroup not supported on
this system"`
2451 [15:49:45] <moldy> so i suspect it wants a newer kernel
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2454 [15:50:20] <moldy> oh funny, the webmin reinstallation has
finished! after 15 minutes or such.
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2477 [16:10:04] <sakal> Hi, I have debian testing (buster), how
can I mount iso with udf filesystem? how can I install udf fs? may
be exists some arch tool with udf support?
2478 [16:10:59] <petn-randall> !debian-next
2479 [16:10:59] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for
testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not*
on Freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is
invite only)." it means you did not read it's on
irc.oftc.net.
2480 [16:11:03] <petn-randall> sakal: ^^^
2481 [16:11:19] <greycat> if "iso with udf" means
"a file with the extension .iso that allegedly has a UDF file
system in it", then it's just a loopback mount. mount -o
loop file directory
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2483 [16:12:02] <greycat> and the extension would be a blatany
falsehood in this case, since .iso is supposed to mean an ISO9660
file system
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2487 [16:14:12] <sakal> petn-randall, thank. I think it's
common issue. But, I will go to oftc after reply here to greycat
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2489 [16:15:01] <sakal> greycat, yeap, I just mount it as loop
device, and got readme.txt with message: 'This disc contains a
"UDF" file system and requires an operating system that
supports the ISO-13346 "UDF" file system
specification.'
2490 [16:15:15] *** Quits: vvor (~vvor@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2491 [16:15:22] <greycat> If you can read it, then you have UDF
support.
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2493 [16:16:08] <sakal> but when I try to mount it as `mount -t
udf ...` I got message, that udf is unknown fs
2494 [16:16:38] <sakal> anyway, thank for helping
2495 [16:16:39] <greycat> Then stop doing that?
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2497 [16:17:15] <sakal> yeap, it stop with error message
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2499 [16:17:39] <BCMM> sadly it's pretty much de-facto
standard to use .iso for udf filesystems :(
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2501 [16:18:04] <sakal> I will be more googling for support
ISO-13346 in debian
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2503 [16:18:19] <BCMM> probably because CD burning software always
accepts .iso files
2504 [16:19:13] <sakal> JFI, it's windows 7 installation iso
image. I just want to look a few moments, but stopped on simple
mount operation, stranger...
2505 [16:19:58] <sakal> thank you all.
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2516 [16:25:00] <dooteo> Hi all,
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2520 [16:26:19] <dooteo> I'd installed Pure-Ftpd server, and
configured to use "UPLOADSCRIPT" to set a kind of flag
once a file is uploaded to Ftp server.
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2524 [16:28:03] <dooteo> I think all conf files are properly
configured, but '/usr/sbin/pure-uploadscript' does not run
script
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2528 [16:28:38] <dooteo> which creates a
'uploaded_filename.complete' file.
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2530 [16:29:08] <dooteo> Any suggest to solve this?
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2552 [16:41:12] <c-c> dooteo: look for Pftpd log files
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2556 [16:42:50] <RoyK> dooteo: if you can, use sftp instead of ftp
- ftp is outdated
2557 [16:42:56] <dooteo> c-c: at /var/log/pure-ftpd/transfer.log,
only PUT messages appears. Nothing about 'upload'
2558 [16:42:57] *** Quits: nobodi (~nobodi@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2559 [16:43:11] <RoyK> dooteo: PUT is upload
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2563 [16:44:30] <dooteo> RoyK: does not matter if Ftp/Sftp, the
issue is I have something wrong to get uploadscript works!
2564 [16:45:07] <dooteo> at /var/log/messages there are some INFO
messages, like:
2565 [16:45:19] <dooteo> Can't change directory to
/home/user/resources
2566 [16:45:23] <RoyK> dooteo: just saying FTP is outdated - sftp
runs on top of ssh and is quite secure - FTP isn't
2567 [16:45:32] *** Quits: cpc26 (~cpc26@replaced-ip ) ()
2568 [16:45:46] <petn-randall> !ftp must die
2569 [16:45:46] <dpkg> FTP MUST DIE!
replaced-url
2570 [16:46:07] <dooteo> Right now, Ftp user home is localted at
/home/user/resources/ftp, and is chrooted
2571 [16:46:25] <BCMM> dooteo: what's actually in the upload
script currently? something useful or just a helloworld?
2572 [16:46:28] *** Joins: Tom01 (~tom@replaced-ip )
2573 [16:46:57] <BCMM> if it's complex, i'd wonder if
maybe the script itself is broken, maybe bashisms with an sh shebang
2574 [16:47:01] <RoyK> dooteo: does it work if you ftp in
manually? also - agin - why not sftp?
2575 [16:47:02] <dooteo> touch
/home/user/resources/ftp/tmp_completed/"${1}.complete"
2576 [16:47:14] <dooteo> yep, script run well manually
2577 [16:47:14] *** Quits: bvdk (~bvdkfreen@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2578 [16:48:01] <BCMM> dooteo: does it have a #! or just that
single line?
2579 [16:48:34] <BCMM> dooteo: oh, and does the ftp server's
user have access to that location?
2580 [16:48:42] <dooteo> Sorry, whole script is:\n#!/bin/sh\n
touch
/home/ikusi/resources/ftp/tmp_completed/"${1}.complete"
2581 [16:48:47] <dooteo> I mean
2582 [16:48:52] <dooteo> #!/bin/sh
2583 [16:48:57] <dooteo> touch
/home/ikusi/resources/ftp/tmp_completed/"${1}.complete"
2584 [16:49:20] <dooteo> ftp and tmp_completed dirs exists
2585 [16:49:34] <BCMM> dooteo: but the ftp server is chrooted in a
different directory? am i reading that right?
2586 [16:49:43] <dooteo> ans $1 should be uploaded file's
name
2587 [16:50:05] <dooteo> is chrooted at /home/user/resources/ftp
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2590 [16:50:34] <greycat> I wonder where tht stderr from this
script is going, so you can look there for errors.
2591 [16:51:01] <dooteo> that's why script is located at
/home/user/resources/ftp/bin
2592 [16:51:05] <BCMM> dooteo: and that script is execed by the
ftp server after an upload completes?
2593 [16:51:09] *** Joins: twobitsprite (~isaac@replaced-ip )
2594 [16:51:15] <greycat> e.g. if $1 happens to have slashes in
it, you could be trying to touch
/home/ikusi/resources/ftp/tmp_completed/./upload/foo.complete or
something
2595 [16:51:59] <BCMM> dooteo: are "ikusi" and
"user" actually the same directory?
2596 [16:52:01] <greycat> The first question is whether the script
is being executed *at all*, and the second question is what
arguments it's being given, and you are not logging either of
these things.
2597 [16:52:01] <dooteo> at /etc/default/pure-ftpd-common file:
UPLOADSCRIPT=/home/user/bin/pure_ftp_upload_completed.sh
2598 [16:52:10] <dooteo> BCMM, yes
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2600 [16:52:29] <BCMM> dooteo: and what are the permissions on
tmp_completed?
2601 [16:52:55] <dooteo> drwxr-xr-x 2 ftpusr ftpgrp 4096 Jul 18
10:11 tmp_completed
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2603 [16:53:26] <dooteo> I can try to open it for write to
everyone,... just for test
2604 [16:53:31] <greycat> And the third question is what UID/GID
the script is being executed with, and again, that's not
logged.
2605 [16:53:40] <dooteo> but the same if I want to write at /tmp
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2608 [16:54:43] <dooteo> greycat: I tried with UPLOADUID= and
UPLOADGID=, as well as with 1001 (user and group, which belongs to
ftpusr and ftpgrp)
2609 [16:55:00] *** Joins: michaelni (~michael@replaced-ip )
2610 [16:55:27] <greycat> dooteo: Try adding some *actual logging*
to the script. Find a place you are absolutely 100% certainly
positive that it can write to, like /tmp (except that may not even
exist because you mentioned chroot at some point) and actually write
basic information there when the script is executed.
2611 [16:55:47] <master_yoda> how would one go about attaching a
shock collar to a cat's vagina?
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2618 [16:56:50] <dooteo> Let me try....
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2627 [17:03:15] <dooteo> Mmm... nothing... Do you know where does
pure-uploadscript write logs? /var/logs/messages has nothing about
it...
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2630 [17:03:35] <greycat> dooteo: I'm telling you to do your
OWN logging instead of counting on something else to have done it
for you.
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2635 [17:05:26] <no_gravity> Hmm.. just wanted to try logresolve
for the first time and it gives me 'segmentation fault'.
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2675 [17:23:53] <dooteo> greycat: if no chroot and no
UPLOADUID/UPLOADGID, and script is copied in /usr/local/bin,
it's able to rite in /tmp dir.
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2679 [17:24:54] <dooteo> I'm going to dive into chroot way...
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2681 [17:25:39] <greycat> I have absolutely no idea whether your
"file was uploaded script" runs inside of a chroot or not.
It's just something you need to keep in mind during your
development and deployment.
2682 [17:26:12] <greycat> If it does, then the path that
you're trying to touch may not be available.
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2685 [17:26:54] <greycat> If you have the script log to
"/tmp/myscript.log" and a file shows up in
/your/chroot/tmp/ then you know it's running inside the chroot.
2686 [17:26:54] <dooteo> greycat: I think so
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2695 [17:33:32] <josj> hi, pan(1) newsreader seems to fail with
(g)vim(1) external editor, file is already removed (similar issue
with thunderbird IIRC).
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2698 [17:37:22] <dooteo> greycat: done!! When Ftp user is
chrooted, you need to set VIRTUALCHROOT=true at
/etc/default/pure-ftpd-common
2699 [17:37:49] <dooteo> and put your upload_script in a
/usr/local/bin like directory.
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2702 [17:38:41] <dooteo> As far as I got, that VIRTUALCHROOT means
even ftp user is chrooted, it has access to PATH to run some script
2703 [17:38:48] <dooteo> Lot of thanks!
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2725 [17:54:33] <dooteo> Bye!
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2732 [17:59:31] <[sr]> guys
2733 [17:59:39] <[sr]> in the latest updates for php 7.1+7.2
2734 [17:59:47] <[sr]> the magicquotes disapeared from php5
2735 [17:59:49] <greycat> ,v php
2736 [17:59:50] <judd> Package: php on amd64 -- stretch: 1:7.0+49;
buster: 1:7.2+61; sid: 1:7.2+61
2737 [18:00:02] <greycat> if you're in 7.2 then you're
past stretch
2738 [18:00:05] <[sr]> i'm running websites with phpfm, but
the debian package just removed it
2739 [18:00:06] <[sr]> :s
2740 [18:00:08] <[sr]> is this true
2741 [18:00:09] <[sr]> ?
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2743 [18:00:21] <[sr]> php5 websites with fpm
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2751 [18:09:12] <jelly> [sr], php5 has been removed around
2016-ish, before Debian 9 release, only php 7 is in Debian 9 and
there is a php-fpm for that.
2752 [18:09:17] <Matt|home> hi.. im trying to install firefox via
command-line but im getting the 'refered to by another
package/no isntallation candidate' messages. there are
workarounds that i've read on posts that involve changing the
apt system, but if possible i'd like to avoid that.. and for
the time being im doing some debug testing so i -have- to install it
via the command line
2753 [18:09:30] <Matt|home> has anyone been able to do this
before?
2754 [18:10:15] *** Quits: mandeep_ (mandeep@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2755 [18:10:19] <jelly> [sr], if you have packages for php 7.1 or
7.2 in stretch, you got those from some place other than Debian.
Possibly deb.sury.org ?
2756 [18:10:28] <[sr]> jelly: im dead!! :P i'm still having
php5 but in the last update just stoped serving magic quotes
2757 [18:10:41] <[sr]> jelly: never only debian
2758 [18:10:42] <SirLagz> Matt|home: the latest firefox or
firefox-esr ?
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2760 [18:10:47] <jelly> [sr], which debian release?
2761 [18:10:50] <[sr]> sid
2762 [18:11:01] <Matt|home> SirLagz , i've been doing apt
install firefox. should i do firefox-esr ?
2763 [18:11:06] <SirLagz> Matt|home: yes
2764 [18:11:08] <jelly> [sr], there hasn't been a php5 in sid
in a LONG time
2765 [18:11:11] <Matt|home> let's give that a whirl
2766 [18:11:47] <Matt|home> ah awesome. it seems to be working.
thanks SirLagz . just out of curiosity is there a way to get it to
suggest the correct package names?
2767 [18:12:24] <SirLagz> Matt|home: do you mean for it to
recommend firefox-esr when you try and install firefox?
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2769 [18:13:00] <netw1z> imagemagick does work for me under debian
stretch : it says its missing libIlmImf.so.6 which i cant find in
any respository
2770 [18:13:11] <Matt|home> yeah. im coming off of ubuntu and
normally when that happens it shows me a list with like
'different versions available please specify version
number'
2771 [18:13:23] <jelly> netw1z, which command exactly are you
calling?
2772 [18:13:36] <netw1z> @jelly convert --version gives this error
2773 [18:14:11] <netw1z> convert: error while loading shared
libraries: libIlmImf.so.6:
2774 [18:14:25] <SirLagz> Matt|home: yeah not sure, sorry
2775 [18:14:32] <Matt|home> s'fine, thank you for your help
/o
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2777 [18:14:38] <jelly> etw1z, alright, what does this command
say: dpkg -l $(dpkg -S $(readlink -f $(which convert))|awk -F:
'{print $1}) | tail -n1
2778 [18:14:50] <SirLagz> Matt|home: no probs
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2780 [18:15:06] <jelly> netw1z, make that
2781 [18:15:10] <jelly> netw1z, dpkg -l $(dpkg -S $(readlink -f
$(which convert))|awk -F: '{print $1}') | tail -n1
2782 [18:16:03] <netw1z> checking
2783 [18:16:24] <netw1z> ii zlib1g-dev:amd64 1:1.2.8.dfsg-5 amd64
compression library - development
2784 [18:16:39] <netw1z> oh and: dpkg-query: no path found
matching pattern /usr/local/bin/convert
2785 [18:16:50] <jelly> netw1z, your convert is not from a debian
package
2786 [18:17:07] <jelly> netw1z, what does just this say: readlink
-f $(which convert)
2787 [18:17:14] <jelly> right
2788 [18:17:36] <netw1z> :: /usr/local/bin/convert
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2790 [18:18:03] <jelly> get rid of that custom build, and see if
/usr/bin/convert works (after installing imagemagick package if
it's not already there)
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2793 [18:19:30] <netw1z> ahh! /usr/bin/convert --version
2794 [18:19:32] <netw1z> does work
2795 [18:19:47] <netw1z> latest version.. so something is linked
wrong?
2796 [18:20:11] <jelly> you have a different one in /usr/local/bin
that does not work
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2799 [18:20:37] <jelly> move it away or delete it
2800 [18:20:40] <netw1z> I will rm it and reinstall imagemagick
2801 [18:20:46] <jelly> no need to reinstall
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2803 [18:21:10] <netw1z> -bash: /usr/local/bin/convert: No such
file or directory
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2805 [18:21:33] <jelly> no debian package will ever put anything
in /usr/local/bin
2806 [18:21:50] <netw1z> yes i must have built a custom one a
while ago
2807 [18:22:10] <netw1z> but is something off with my path?
2808 [18:22:19] <jelly> nope
2809 [18:22:23] <netw1z> its not finding /usr/bin/convert yet
2810 [18:22:36] <jelly> run "hash -r" in your bash shell
2811 [18:22:46] <jelly> or "rehash" in zsh
2812 [18:22:55] <netw1z> nice!
2813 [18:23:03] <netw1z> working! thank you! im back in the game!
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2816 [18:24:10] <jelly> "help hash" has a short
explanation of what that built-in bash command does
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2819 [18:25:14] <jelly> (makes the shell reread contents of PATH;
a VERY long time ago, this was an expensive operation so interactive
shells keep their own cache of those contents)
2820 [18:25:48] <jelly> (instead of, say, looking into each
directory every time an external command is called)
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2836 [18:29:58] <netw1z> that was super helpful thank you @jelly -
you helped me level up
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2891 [19:00:00] <BCMM> jelly: that would still be moderately
expensive!
2892 [19:00:06] <BCMM> jelly: checking every time a command is
called, that is
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2895 [19:00:33] <BCMM> make that "very expensive" when
running scripts that make repeated calls
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2938 [19:26:28] <xsisec> hi guys I think I am hacked maybe ?
-->
replaced-url
2939 [19:26:36] <xsisec> what need I to do?
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2941 [19:29:43] <peterandre> why do you think so ?
2942 [19:29:51] <xsisec> look at the log?
2943 [19:30:11] <xsisec> suddendly I also only got read access to
my drives also
2944 [19:30:31] <peterandre> hmm
2945 [19:30:45] <peterandre> i would backup things and do a clean
install
2946 [19:31:06] <peterandre> read access usually activats itself
when a harddisk is dying or indeed forced by something
2947 [19:31:16] <xsisec> hmm
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2963 [19:41:53] <rarity_> So I noticed debian also had the hurd
and freebsd kernel, is it possible to add them along with your linux
kernel so at boot you can choose it?
2964 [19:42:23] <rarity_> Or you have to install the whole distro?
2965 [19:43:11] <RoyK> rarity_: about Hurd…
replaced-url
2966 [19:44:38] <rarity_> lol I know. Just wanted to test it on
real hardware. without having to do a whole install again.
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2969 [19:47:09] * RoyK prints out a lampshade
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2980 [19:51:03] <ardualabs> lol @ hurd
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2982 [19:52:16] <rarity_> I guess I'll just go get the
install cd and try it on my laptop I never use
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2991 [19:54:13] <ardualabs> (lol at the comic, rather - not to
trash on your project, rarity_)
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3016 [20:09:04] <zerocool> hey guys, really quick how can i find
packages installed from say... stretch-backports?
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3025 [20:12:09] <greycat> shutupbot dpkg -l | grep bpo
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3044 [20:22:31] <mnuhmnuh> zerocool: that's atricky q.
greycat's soln. includes libpolkit, libpoppler, libopt, and
libpostproc. "aptitude search '~dbackport ~i'"
(or bpo) finds python stuff.
3045 [20:23:03] <annadane> soln?
3046 [20:23:12] *** Joins: hlam (~hlam@replaced-ip )
3047 [20:23:12] <annadane> oh solution
3048 [20:23:25] *** Joins: erasmus (~erasmus@replaced-ip )
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3051 [20:25:04] <zerocool> mnuhmnuh, its more trouble than
it's worth yeah... oh well :)
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3054 [20:26:10] <mnuhmnuh> zerocool: use greycat's and tag on
"| grep -v lib"
3055 [20:27:39] <twobitsprite> zerocool: pretty sure
aptitude's ~O search should work, I just don't know the
origin name for the backports repos... probably just
"backports" or "bpo" so something like
"aptitude search '~i ~Obackports'" or the same
with ~Obpo or ~Obackport
3056 [20:27:55] <mnuhmnuh> and what happens then when it finds bpo
libs? oops.
3057 [20:28:06] <greycat> what's wrong with libs?
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3059 [20:28:29] <mnuhmnuh> grep -v
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3062 [20:28:43] <mnuhmnuh> throws all matching away
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3067 [20:29:58] <zerocool> guys its okay
3068 [20:30:05] <zerocool> i appreciate your help though
3069 [20:30:11] <KdeKris> anyone know anything about what appears
to be a shell script?
3070 [20:30:26] <KdeKris>
replaced-url
3071 [20:30:37] <mnuhmnuh> file script
3072 [20:30:44] *** Joins: telcoguy (~telcoguy@replaced-ip )
3073 [20:30:57] *** Quits: c0ncealed2 (c0ncealed@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3074 [20:30:59] <KdeKris> looks like this is looking for OpenGL v2
then preventing hardware acceleration if it finds anything other
than v2.
3075 [20:31:03] *** Joins: Rutice (~Rutice@replaced-ip )
3076 [20:31:08] <KdeKris> Ah, file script. Okay, thanks.
3077 [20:31:15] <KdeKris> Not the same thing I'm guessing.
3078 [20:31:19] <zerocool> lol
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3085 [20:32:06] <zerocool> honestly im not sure by looking at it,
if it's shell or bash
3086 [20:32:16] *** Quits: krukudilo (~krukudilo@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
3087 [20:32:31] <mnuhmnuh> "... user does not has at least
OpenGL 2 support."
3088 [20:32:34] <zerocool> it looks like bash though
3089 [20:32:37] *** Quits: wall4ss (~smuxi@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
3090 [20:33:25] <cloudive> what do you think causes some open
source projects to become popular, besides licensing? there must be
some good ones everyone is missing
3091 [20:33:35] <blackflow> zerocool: if you're up for some
scripting, you can cross-reference package listed by dpkg, for
ii(nstaled), with those appearing in the approrpiate
/var/lib/apt/lists/...Packages file
3092 [20:34:10] <zerocool> blackflow: i just remembered what i
installed, removed and autoremoved, good enough for me
3093 [20:34:16] <annadane> KdeKris, out of curiosity did you
actually get your problems fixed?
3094 [20:34:21] <zerocool> thanks though
3095 [20:34:30] <KdeKris> Right, currently OpenGL 3.0 is
installed, and I'm stuck with software rendering. Before I
upgraded my gpu, it only supported up to OpenGL 2.1, which is why
this script caught my attention.
3096 [20:34:34] *** Joins: Rothgar (~admin@replaced-ip )
3097 [20:34:46] <KdeKris> annadane, no. That's why I'm
still here instead of gaming right now. hahah.
3098 [20:34:50] <greycat> KdeKris: it's parsing the output of
glxinfo. What version does glxinfo say you have?
3099 [20:34:57] <annadane> ah, shame
3100 [20:35:05] *** Quits: dethos (~dethos@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
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3102 [20:35:25] <KdeKris> OpenGL core profile version string: 3.3
(Core Profile) Mesa 18.1.4
3103 [20:35:40] <zerocool> here's a question though... i have
two nas's, one is nfs server that keeps disk images for
vm's, i want to replicate these to another nas... anyone know
of any good way to do this?
3104 [20:35:44] <KdeKris> OpenGL version string: 3.1 Mesa 18.1.4
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3106 [20:36:23] <zerocool> i just tried glusterfs, which worked
and was super cool but then would break down and stop working and
logs weren't really useful and the community is kinda dead
3107 [20:36:41] <blackflow> zerocool: blackbox NAS you can't
rsync from, or something you can rsync from? :)
3108 [20:36:44] <zerocool> also ceph needs more hardware than i
have, or i would already be on that
3109 [20:36:54] <blackflow> or by replicate you mean... live, real
time repl?
3110 [20:37:04] <greycat> KdeKris: the thing you posted is looking
for "OpenGL version string" and yours has "OpenGL
core profile version string" so it fails
3111 [20:37:08] <KdeKris> annadane, isn't it though? However,
this script caught my eye, and I'm wondering what would happen
if I disabled it. Say by renaming it
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3113 [20:37:31] <KdeKris> It also shows OpenGL version string: 3.1
Mesa 18.1.4
3114 [20:37:39] <zerocool> im talking 500gb files... rsync would
need to move every GB every time, right? I'd like incremental
backups, less reading/writing, less traffic
3115 [20:38:01] *** Quits: Rothgar` (~admin@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
3116 [20:38:04] <greycat> rsync will attempt to transfer only
those parts of the file that are changed, if it can
3117 [20:38:06] <zerocool> gluster was doing this but would fail,
repeatedly and randomly
3118 [20:38:17] <zerocool> greycat: really!?
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3120 [20:38:38] <blackflow> zerocool: rsync does delta, but do you
want _realtime_ replication, like for redundancy, or just once, or
something like daily?
3121 [20:39:17] <blackflow> zerocool: here's a crazy idea:
mdadm raid1 based on nbd drives mounted from the NASes :)
3122 [20:39:19] *** Quits: well_laid_lawn (~Jean-luc@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3123 [20:39:33] <zerocool> blackflow: i basically just want
backups, doesn't have to be 1:1, it can be like hourly
3124 [20:40:06] <zerocool> i can quiesce the disks off their base
images and rsync if it can delta, that is DOPE
3125 [20:40:14] <blackflow> zerocool: I know what I'd do. ZFS
and put those VMs on zvols. zfs can snapshot and send oover diffs
with send|recv to another ZFS for backups. We have 5-minute backups
on terabytes of data.
3126 [20:40:44] *** Quits: ableto (~cryptum@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
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3128 [20:40:58] <zerocool> blackflow: i was doing this with btrfs
already, snapshot send and receive off-site over small pipes, yeah
it would take like 5 minutes, was awesome
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3131 [20:41:10] <blackflow> yeah but btrfs has no zvols
3132 [20:41:34] *** Quits: hlam (~hlam@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
3133 [20:41:54] <zerocool> btrfs has volumes and since im using
nfs and not iscsi this is essentially the same as a zvol
3134 [20:42:24] <zerocool> zvols allow export as iscsi, you cannot
do this with a btrfs volume :/
3135 [20:42:40] <blackflow> it's not. zvol is a block device
you can use directly as disk image for the VM. being block device,
it doesn't have the overhead of a filesystem between the
VM's filesystem and the raw storage
3136 [20:42:54] <zerocool> that's basically what i am saying
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3138 [20:43:19] <blackflow> I'd totally try to do some nbd
magic for redundancy between multiple NAS thing. for fun if anything
else :)
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3142 [20:44:50] <blackflow> ZFS is also NFS aware, btw
3143 [20:44:55] <KdeKris> zerocool, you an angelina jolie fan?
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3146 [20:46:11] <zerocool> i am using kvm/libvirt and qemu, with
qcow2 format disks... this is not compatible with the zvol idea, i
don't think
3147 [20:46:23] <zerocool> KdeKris: who isn't?
3148 [20:47:05] <KdeKris> Well, not after like 2008, any time
before that, and hell yeah.
3149 [20:47:17] <blackflow> zerocool: no, so if you plan on using
zvols, you use raw disk images.
3150 [20:47:26] <KdeKris> Eh, I'd say Mr. and Mrs. Smith was
her last good movie.
3151 [20:47:34] <zerocool> blackflow: my issue when testing cow
filesystems, snapshotting and send/receive, was with zfs i
couldn't measure fragmentation
3152 [20:47:37] <zerocool> i could with btrfs
3153 [20:47:47] <zerocool> so, i just don't have enough
information to go that route
3154 [20:47:51] <blackflow> although I don't think that qcow
+ zvol has any significant overhead, both being CoWs, there's
no same-block rewrite to be rewritten....
3155 [20:48:00] *** Quits: f4cl3y (~f4cl3y@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
3156 [20:48:06] <zerocool> we do use zfs already for vmware
cluster sans
3157 [20:48:14] *** Joins: SopaXorzTaker (~SopaXorzT@replaced-ip )
3158 [20:48:20] <blackflow> zerocool: what do you mean? zpool list
shows you free space fragmentation estimate
3159 [20:48:41] <blackflow> btrfs is a lying sack of.... lies,
when you hit 50% of disk space and it starts balking about no space
left.
3160 [20:49:16] <zerocool> actually that's not true i have
hit 99% before all vm's being paused
3161 [20:49:35] <zerocool> that's on a btrfs raid 10 and
everything
3162 [20:49:48] <blackflow> zerocool: yes, I'm not sayig it
happens _always_ :) it does happen with high fragmentation rate and
if you forget to rebalance every once in a while.
3163 [20:50:05] <Kocane15> Doesn't a debian server by default
show what it's doing when shutting down/booting? what services
is starting out etc
3164 [20:50:07] <Kocane15> up*
3165 [20:50:09] *** Quits: dionysus69 (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip ) (Quit: dionysus69)
3166 [20:50:19] <greycat> no, not in recent versions
3167 [20:50:25] <Kocane15> oh ok
3168 [20:50:26] <greycat> the default is to include
"quite" in grub now
3169 [20:50:28] <mnuhmnuh> what a mess: "glxinfo | grep -i
version" -->
replaced-url
3170 [20:50:32] <greycat> err "quiet"
3171 [20:50:39] <blackflow> in fact, I'm pretty sure
forgetting to rebalance and doing a lot of snapshotting is a quick
way to be out of space with plenty of free space available.
3172 [20:50:39] <zerocool> i use btrfs in production, we use it
for fileservers all over, we replicate back to a central repo, we
have recovered servers from these backups in no time, it's been
100% reliable... i think people just repeat what the see on the
internet
3173 [20:50:41] <Kocane15> so if I want more info I just edit the
grub ?
3174 [20:51:05] <zerocool> hourly backups, have been running for
years
3175 [20:51:05] <greycat> Kocane15: you can edit /etc/default/grub
and then run update-grub
3176 [20:51:17] <Kocane15> Cool, thanks!
3177 [20:51:44] *** Joins: deicide- (~deicide-@replaced-ip )
3178 [20:51:46] <blackflow> zerocool: well possibly they do. I
have run btrfs in prod too, along ZFS, until btrfs broke so hard we
gave up for good, and that was _Before_ the whole raid56 incident.
So I've seen it break with that free space fragmentation quite
often.
3179 [20:52:32] <blackflow> it can be best thing since sliced
bread _now_, I wouldn't trust it. and I don't have any
incentive to give it another shot, ZFS being so good.
3180 [20:53:00] <blackflow> maybe ina couple of years, if ZFS
doesn't get mainlined.
3181 [20:53:10] <zerocool> i use to use hard drives until one day
my hard drive crashed and i went back to paper, i never had a hard
drive crash again
3182 [20:53:19] <zerocool> i mean you can say that about anything
3183 [20:53:30] <zerocool> i had a problem and i used something
else and i never went back
3184 [20:53:51] <blackflow> zerocool: but you know how it is.
takes a long while to build up trust, and seconds to lose it.
3185 [20:54:17] *** Joins: Nekojimi (~jimj316@replaced-ip )
3186 [20:54:39] <annadane> what other than grub uses update-foo?
3187 [20:55:08] <annadane> bash autocomplete gives 6 on my system
3188 [20:55:22] <blackflow> besides, some btrfs interfaces are
abysmal. with `zfs list` I can see all I want. snapshots, sizes
thereof, ref sizez etc... there's no such interface for btrfs,
you have to use those numeric IDs or whatsit and the cross reference
with subvol names.
3189 [20:55:26] <annadane> none of which is update-grub
interestingly
3190 [20:55:40] *** Quits: telcoguy (~telcoguy@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
3191 [20:55:44] *** Quits: HarveyPwca (~HarveyPwc@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
3192 [20:55:57] <greycat> update-alternatives is the other big one
3193 [20:56:26] <zerocool> blackflow: yeah for sure
3194 [20:56:40] <greycat> For some reason there are a handful in
/usr/bin in addition to the much larger set in /usr/sbin
3195 [20:57:14] *** Joins: wilbert (~wilbert@replaced-ip )
3196 [20:57:16] <greycat> update-rc.d *used* to be important
3197 [20:57:17] *** Quits: chachasmooth (~chachasmo@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3198 [20:57:20] <blackflow> when is usr merge gonna happen....
soon I hope.
3199 [20:57:39] *** Joins: johndoe173648 (~johndoe17@replaced-ip )
3200 [20:58:01] <annadane> !usr merge
3201 [20:58:09] <annadane> oh well. i'll look it up.
3202 [20:58:22] *** Joins: chachasmooth (~chachasmo@replaced-ip )
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3204 [20:58:41] <[sr]> how do i prevent the php-fpm package on
debian to start?
3205 [20:58:49] <[sr]> used to exists the file in /etc/defaults
3206 [20:58:54] <[sr]> to set the autostart
3207 [20:58:55] *** Quits: wilbert (~wilbert@replaced-ip ) (Client Quit)
3208 [20:58:57] *** Joins: chachasmooth (~chachasmo@replaced-ip )
3209 [20:59:15] <zerocool> [sr]: systemctl disable php-fpm
3210 [20:59:19] <zerocool> probably
3211 [20:59:54] <greycat>
replaced-url
3212 [21:00:06] <greycat> so it should be systemctl disable
php7.0-fpm
3213 [21:00:23] <[sr]> that
3214 [21:00:25] <[sr]> perfect
3215 [21:01:07] <annadane> oh. right. /usr merge
3216 [21:01:15] <annadane> that thing.
3217 [21:01:36] <zerocool> what's usr merge
3218 [21:01:42] <annadane>
replaced-url
3219 [21:01:45] <zerocool> everything getting moved into usr?
3220 [21:02:11] <greycat> Oh, it's not a DEBIAN thing.
That's why I've not heard of it.
3221 [21:02:15] *** Joins: Brigo (~Brigo@replaced-ip )
3222 [21:02:16] *** Joins: Nefertiti (~Nefertiti@replaced-ip )
3223 [21:02:59] <greycat> systemd wants to do something intrusive
and controversial, to the point where they have to argue for it?
nope, not even gonna read.
3224 [21:03:16] <greycat> I already use precisely zero of the
optional shit in systemd.
3225 [21:03:30] <blackflow> zerocool: not _Every_thing, but a
merge of /usr/bin with /bin and /usr/sbin with /sbin becuase as it
is now is ridiculous and _only_ because many decades ago someone
didn't have big enough drive and invented /usr
3226 [21:03:38] <blackflow> it's not systemd this time.
3227 [21:03:53] *** Joins: adoua (~adoua@replaced-ip )
3228 [21:04:07] *** Joins: cph (~cph@replaced-ip )
3229 [21:04:17] <greycat> The primary motivation behind a separate
/usr in the older days was read-only NFS-mounted /usr.
3230 [21:04:27] <blackflow> there is literally NO reason for that
split, other than "tradition" and "bareplaced-url
3231 [21:04:39] <greycat> I just stated a reason.
3232 [21:05:12] *** Quits: hele (~hele@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
3233 [21:05:23] *** Joins: udkyo (~udkyo@replaced-ip )
3234 [21:05:30] <greycat> The stuff outside of /usr has to be
sufficient to get you onto the network and able to mount NFS things.
Then you mount /usr from the central NFS server. It's not a
common setup NOW, but it was once.
3235 [21:05:42] <blackflow> that's not the primary motivation
for it though. insufficient disk space is.
3236 [21:05:49] <drablyechos> I install a lot of stuff to
/usr/local
3237 [21:05:50] *** Quits: voidSurfr (~voidSurfr@replaced-ip ) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
3238 [21:05:59] <Nekojimi> I feel like I shouldn't judge on
this issue, due to the fact that I continue to suffer from stupid
decisions made on my part when I didn't have a big enough hard
drive :P
3239 [21:05:59] <annadane> can it happen just so everyone forgets
the systemd debate ever happened? :)
3240 [21:06:06] <drablyechos> things that aren't installed
via package manager but that I want in my system PATH
3241 [21:06:27] <drablyechos> (e.g., vault and terraform CLI
binaries)
3242 [21:06:33] <Nekojimi> I made /usr and /var their own
partitions and only gave them 10GB each...
3243 [21:06:56] <greycat> blackflow: if it makes you happy, HP-UX
merged them decades ago. /bin is a symlink to /usr/bin in HP-UX 10
3244 [21:06:59] <greycat> lr-xr-xr-t 1 root sys 8 Feb 10 2000 /bin
-> /usr/bin
3245 [21:07:12] <drablyechos> lol nice
3246 [21:07:17] *** Quits: udkyo (~udkyo@replaced-ip ) (Client Quit)
3247 [21:07:52] *** Joins: dartleader (~dartleade@replaced-ip )
3248 [21:08:04] <drablyechos> Is HP-UX like AIX?
3249 [21:08:18] *** Joins: foo (~foo@replaced-ip )
3250 [21:08:30] <foo> date is returning UTC time. How can I change
that to CST? I don't think this will break anything else... hmm
3251 [21:08:33] <blackflow> greycat: well, "happy".
it's a mess right now. there's no sane unambiguous rule
that states if something should go to /bin or /usr/bin
3252 [21:09:07] <blackflow> and really, the only reason for the
split was insufficient disk space, so Bell Labs engineers mounted
another disk to /usr
3253 [21:09:08] <greycat> And most people don't care. Why do
you care?
3254 [21:09:22] *** Joins: jdlexky (~jamesh@replaced-ip )
3255 [21:09:29] *** Joins: srgg (~user@replaced-ip )
3256 [21:09:49] *** Joins: udkyo (~udkyo@replaced-ip )
3257 [21:10:00] <blackflow> greycat: becuse of sbin. I don't
have it in PATH for unrpiv users and frequently have to go look for
full paths, is it /sbin or is it /usr/sbin.
3258 [21:10:10] *** Quits: Rutice (~Rutice@replaced-ip ) (Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
3259 [21:10:23] <drablyechos> this weird russian guy I worked with
at my university once remarked that "I like AIX because
it's so restrictive"
3260 [21:10:24] *** Joins: valeech (~valeech@replaced-ip )
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3262 [21:11:29] *** Joins: rektide_ (~rektide@replaced-ip )
3263 [21:12:34] <mnuhmnuh> foo dpkg-reconfigure locales
3264 [21:12:46] *** Quits: aielima (~aielima@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
3265 [21:12:55] *** Joins: Rutice (~Rutice@replaced-ip )
3266 [21:13:25] *** Joins: patterson (patterson@replaced-ip )
3267 [21:14:05] *** Quits: nuuuciano (~luuuciano@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3268 [21:14:23] <ayekat> blackflow: I just add the sbin paths to
my PATH to work around that silliness
3269 [21:14:49] <greycat> yeah, no sense denying yourself
PATH=$PATH:/usr/sbin:/sbin when you're the admin. It's
there to protect your users, not you.
3270 [21:14:50] *** Quits: towo` (~towo@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
3271 [21:15:07] <ayekat> doesn't "protect" anyone
IMHO
3272 [21:15:21] <blackflow> sure but. if "disk space" is
the only reason the split exists, and "most people don't
care", so why not merge them ;)
3273 [21:15:24] <greycat> that too, but the intent was to hide the
"administration" commands
3274 [21:15:29] *** Quits: Rutice (~Rutice@replaced-ip ) (Client Quit)
3275 [21:15:29] *** Quits: baconicsynergy (~baconicsy@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3276 [21:15:29] *** Quits: baconicsynergy_ (~baconicsy@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3277 [21:15:46] <greycat> blackflow: you keep repeating this thing
as if it were a fact, when it is not.
3278 [21:15:47] *** Parts: rektide_ (~rektide@replaced-ip ) ()
3279 [21:16:06] <greycat> The ORIGINAL reason may have been
"we need more disks" but other reasons evolved over time.
3280 [21:16:23] *** Quits: krabador (~krabador@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3281 [21:16:23] <mnuhmnuh> greycat: like ifconfig. great.
3282 [21:16:40] <blackflow> greycat: if there are other reasons, I
don't see them. I see no pattern in deciding as to what goes
under /usr/bin and what goes under /bin
3283 [21:17:05] *** Joins: cryptic (~cryptic@replaced-ip )
3284 [21:17:09] *** Quits: foul_owl (~foul_owl@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
3285 [21:17:23] <blackflow> otehr than "if it's not
needed before you can mount stuff, then /usr is fine" falacy
some people do
3286 [21:17:23] <greycat> blackflow: as I said above, centrally
managed NFS server with /usr on it, mounted read-only on
"clients" was common a couple decades ago.
3287 [21:18:06] <blackflow> greycat: but that's not the
reason for the split, is it? that's a consequence of the split.
toosl needed before NFS moutns become available, can't or
shouldn't go to /usr
3288 [21:18:21] <blackflow> because /usr could be NFS mounted.
you're giving me a consequence of something, as a cause for
that something.
3289 [21:18:27] *** Quits: DonVlad (~vlad@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Time for me to go.)
3290 [21:19:08] <annadane> out of curiosity what protects the
users for sbin not being in the path?
3291 [21:20:09] *** Quits: llucenic (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3292 [21:20:15] *** Quits: _0bitcount (~Big_Byte@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
3293 [21:20:37] *** Joins: mtn (~mtn@replaced-ip )
3294 [21:20:40] *** Quits: Nekojimi (~jimj316@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
3295 [21:20:43] <ayekat> nobody is "protected" from
anything, and any user can add any directory to their PATH if they
wish so
3296 [21:20:50] *** Joins: _0bitcount (~Big_Byte@replaced-ip )
3297 [21:21:02] *** Joins: iiaann (~ian@replaced-ip )
3298 [21:21:24] <blackflow> it's more about forcing you to
use full paths, as a good habit
3299 [21:21:35] <greycat> *boggle*
3300 [21:21:43] <greycat> what... you have a bizarre perception of
things
3301 [21:21:51] <mnuhmnuh> q. is, whay are users expected to not
need /sbin in their PATH?
3302 [21:22:04] *** Joins: rarity_ (~rarity_@replaced-ip )
3303 [21:22:09] <blackflow> perhaps, but I agree it's not in
any way an argument for or against, split /usr
3304 [21:22:27] <greycat> But at leasst now I know why you are in
favor of this merge. It's because of this bizarre self-imposed
restriction.
3305 [21:22:40] *** Joins: wonderworld (~ww@replaced-ip )
3306 [21:22:56] <greycat> "It will be easier for me to do
this weird difficult thing that I force myself to do."
3307 [21:23:14] <annadane> good habit for what... anyway, this is
off-topic, sorry
3308 [21:23:25] <blackflow> it's not just that. I love nice,
ordered systems. haphazardly choosing to put something under
/usr/bin or /bin, is what bothers me.
3309 [21:24:17] <blackflow> and clinging to tradition because
it's tradition, I havea problem with that too :) but
that's personal reasons, right? the usr merge is not something
pushed by _my_ personal reasons.
3310 [21:25:03] *** Joins: Kevlar_Noir (~lexou@replaced-ip )
3311 [21:25:11] <ayekat> I like systems that have merged all of
/sbin, /bin, /usr/sbin and /usr/bin into one ^^
3312 [21:25:20] <ayekat> it's a lot less head scratching
3313 [21:25:44] <blackflow> personally I wouldn't mind that
:)
3314 [21:26:08] <mnuhmnuh> yeah, run x in single user mode!
3315 [21:26:12] *** Quits: deicide- (~deicide-@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
3316 [21:26:18] *** Quits: killian99 (~killian99@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Quitte)
3317 [21:26:50] <ayekat> ?
3318 [21:27:48] *** Joins: nix64bit (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip )
3319 [21:28:10] *** Quits: holden- (~holden-@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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3321 [21:28:46] *** Quits: drablyechos (~drablyech@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3322 [21:29:19] *** Joins: untitled (untitled@replaced-ip )
3323 [21:29:26] *** Joins: drablyechos (~drablyech@replaced-ip )
3324 [21:29:27] <untitled> hello
3325 [21:29:43] <untitled> can someone try this command
'runuser -l tomcat8 -c 'touch /tmp/a'' and tell
me if the file gets created, please?
3326 [21:29:52] *** Quits: KdeKris (~kristophe@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
3327 [21:30:04] *** Joins: foul_owl (~foul_owl@replaced-ip )
3328 [21:30:32] <greycat> why would you think anyone else has a
user named tomcat8
3329 [21:30:53] <greycat> why don't you just do "ls -ld
/tmp /tmp/a" and see if the permissions are OK?
3330 [21:31:23] <annadane> my computer exploded. bits are
everywhere. i have corroded metal in my hair. my bed is on fire.
3331 [21:31:30] *** Quits: adoua (~adoua@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
3332 [21:31:34] *** Joins: Epakai (~epakai@replaced-ip )
3333 [21:31:39] <untitled> yeah, this is a two-part question :)
annadane but the file got created?
3334 [21:31:50] <annadane> i... didn't try the command at all
3335 [21:32:08] <untitled> hmm... only thinking about running it
works too
3336 [21:32:20] <annadane> also where am i looking for the file,
/tmp?
3337 [21:32:24] <greycat> I think you should paste the output of
ls -ld /tmp /tmp/a
3338 [21:32:39] <annadane> and yeah just listen to greycat
honestly
3339 [21:33:00] <untitled> greycat: assuming /tmp has 777 rights
on it and on my system the file doesn't get created
3340 [21:33:05] <untitled> that's why I'm worried
3341 [21:33:08] <greycat> 777 is wrong. it should be 1777.
3342 [21:33:15] <greycat> I think you should paste the output of
ls -ld /tmp /tmp/a
3343 [21:33:35] *** Quits: drablyechos (~drablyech@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
3344 [21:33:52] *** Joins: deicide- (~deicide-@replaced-ip )
3345 [21:33:57] <untitled> drwxrwxrwt 11 root root 4096 Jul 18
22:17 /tmp/
3346 [21:34:03] <untitled> /tmp/a doesn't get created
3347 [21:34:26] <greycat> Assuming you actually typed "ls -ld
/tmp/" instead of what I said to type, those permissions look
correct.
3348 [21:34:40] <greycat> Is the disk full?
3349 [21:34:56] <untitled> no
3350 [21:34:59] <greycat> Is /tmp or / mounted read-only for some
reason? Can *root* create a file in /tmp?
3351 [21:35:06] *** Quits: lldd_ (~atrapado@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
3352 [21:35:33] *** Joins: Nekojimi (~jimj316@replaced-ip )
3353 [21:35:33] *** Quits: Velgor (~Velgor@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3354 [21:35:37] <untitled> no, not read-only, root can create
things and so can other login-users
3355 [21:36:23] <greycat> Then perhaps it's something bizarre
in tomcat8's dot files, like a self-imposed ulimit -f 0
3356 [21:37:22] *** Joins: dazo (~freenode@replaced-ip )
3357 [21:37:27] <greycat> although even with that, I'd expect
a "touch" to be able to create a zero-sized file...
3358 [21:38:01] *** Joins: wilbert (~wilbert@replaced-ip )
3359 [21:38:15] * greycat tests... yes, with ulimit -f 0, I can create a
file with touch, but not redirect content into it.
3360 [21:38:35] *** Quits: cadeskyw1 (~madoka@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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3364 [21:40:08] <dazo> Hey! Any debian package maintainers here?
I'm developing a brand new openvpn client for linux, based on
the openvpn3 code base. But I would appreciate some help getting it
packaged for Debian .... so anyone able and willing to help out?
3365 [21:40:27] <annadane> !new maintainer's guide
3366 [21:40:27] <dpkg> The packaging tutorial (replaced-url
3367 [21:40:30] <petn-randall> !debian-mentors
3368 [21:40:30] <dpkg> Find packaging help for the Debian project
in #debian-mentors on irc.oftc.net. If the channel is invite-only
it's because you missed it being on OFTC.
3369 [21:40:38] <petn-randall> dazo: You can find some info above.
^^^
3370 [21:40:40] *** Joins: OS-38594 (~OS-38594@replaced-ip )
3371 [21:40:49] *** Joins: timahvo1 (~rogue@replaced-ip )
3372 [21:41:09] *** Joins: Elleander (~Elleander@replaced-ip )
3373 [21:41:21] <dazo> petwell, I would really like to share this
effort with others .... I'm still working on making
openvpn3-linux ready for a beta release
3374 [21:41:23] <dazo>
replaced-url
3375 [21:41:35] *** Joins: relaxed (~relaxed@replaced-ip )
3376 [21:41:52] <annadane> that's fine. not everyone will
trust an unvetted vpn program, be warned
3377 [21:42:02] *** Quits: pugfantus (~pugfantus@replaced-ip##) (Quit: ZNC - ##replaced-url
3378 [21:42:44] <dazo> annadane: I know ... I'm an OpenVPN
Inc employee and have been working on the community OpenVPN for
almost a decade (both free time and as fulltime job)
3379 [21:43:38] *** Quits: mauz555 (~mauz555@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
3380 [21:43:39] <dazo> but the OpenVPN 3 core library is also used
by OpenVPN Connect ... and is behind the Private Tunnel service ....
so we're quite confident that part of code is the code is good
:)
3381 [21:43:41] *** Joins: thiras (~thiras@replaced-ip )
3382 [21:44:10] <petn-randall> dazo: If you want to get involved,
I'd head out to #debian-mentors, and also get in contact with
the Debian maintainers of openvpn. They'll surely be
interested. If you don't want to do the packaging work,
that's also fine, in that case file a RFP bug, and poke the
openvpn maintainers about it.
3383 [21:44:18] *** Quits: udkyo (~udkyo@replaced-ip ) (Quit: udkyo)
3384 [21:44:49] <dazo> petn-randall: ahh, cool! I'll join
-mentors and file the RFP
3385 [21:45:09] <dazo> any templates I should use for the RFP?
3386 [21:45:14] *** Quits: Guest52012 (~user@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3387 [21:45:18] <petn-randall> dazo: RFP = request for packaging,
ITP = intent to package
3388 [21:45:25] <petn-randall> (depending on what you want to do)
3389 [21:46:15] *** Quits: dartleader (~dartleade@replaced-ip ) (Quit: WeeChat 2.1)
3390 [21:46:16] <petn-randall> dazo: If you have Debian already
installed, you can just run 'reportbug' and let it guide
you. If not, there's a fairly arcane email interface to the bug
tracker.
3391 [21:46:16] *** Joins: semeion (~semeion@replaced-ip )
3392 [21:46:34] <annadane> spread across 6 website entries...
3393 [21:46:36] <dazo> Nah, I'm in the lions den here ...
I'm a Fedora/RHEL user ... hence I need help ;-)
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3397 [21:47:01] <petn-randall> hehe
3398 [21:47:12] *** Joins: towo` (~towo@replaced-ip )
3399 [21:47:28] <petn-randall> dazo:
replaced-url
3400 [21:47:32] <dazo> the Fedora/CentOS/RHEL package for tetsing
can be found here:
replaced-url
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3402 [21:47:52] <dazo> petn-randall: thx! I'll look more
closely at that :)
3403 [21:48:11] <annadane> (that's actually not true, the
debian documentation is fine)
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3405 [21:48:50] <petn-randall> dazo: Cool! I appreciate the work
you're putting into this. Just ping the channel if you need any
help with anything.
3406 [21:49:09] <petn-randall> I gotta go, see you around.
3407 [21:49:12] <dazo> c'ya!
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3429 [22:00:24] <jhutchins_wk> Is there no web interface for
bugreporting?
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3431 [22:00:27] *** shann_ is now known as shann
3432 [22:00:35] <annadane> afaik no
3433 [22:00:42] <annadane> just reportbug or email
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3439 [22:02:18] <annadane> stuck in the 90's? arguably...
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3442 [22:03:30] <twobitsprite> annadane: The Debian project does
pretty much everything over email and mailing lists
3443 [22:04:30] <annadane> it's not like the bug reporting
system is hard or hard to find or anything so i think it's ok
3444 [22:04:59] *** Quits: Sir_Designer (~Sir_Desig@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3445 [22:05:15] <greycat> One might argue that people who
can't configure a mail system aren't going to provide
useful bug reports.
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3448 [22:06:38] <twobitsprite> greycat: good point... it's
self filtering
3449 [22:07:10] <jhutchins_wk> Heh.
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3451 [22:07:27] <dazo> I don't mind the email approach. webUI
so often tends to be over-complicated
3452 [22:07:54] <dazo> lets see how well I did :-P
3453 [22:08:22] <annadane> Bug report: Critical: "REMOVE
SYSTEMD OMG"
3454 [22:08:43] <dazo> :-P
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3457 [22:09:20] <annadane> the only thing the debian website
legitimately does terribly is the wiki and that's sort of a
volunteer effort by necessity
3458 [22:09:31] * blackflow slaps annadane with a big unfrozen trout.
3459 [22:09:43] <annadane> and "terribly" is a stretch
3460 [22:09:44] <foo> mnuhmnuh: thank you. I don't suspect
dpkg-reconfigure locales will break or mess aynthing up, right?
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3463 [22:11:42] <mnuhmnuh> foo: nothing's impossible, but
it's a pretty safe tool. you can always "LANG=C
$anycommand" if it fouls up.
3464 [22:12:00] <foo> mnuhmnuh: thanks :D
3465 [22:12:39] <annadane> largely because the wiki does actually
differentiate between "this works on jessie" "this
works on stretch"
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3467 [22:13:16] <greycat> If there's a page you feel is
incomplete or wrong, fix it. It's a wiki.
3468 [22:13:33] <annadane> ^ pretty much
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3471 [22:14:20] <mnuhmnuh> foo: tricky thing w locales is getting
modern window managers to grok the latest/new setting. they can be
slow to do so; logout, login, no; shutdown, restart, no; ...
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3473 [22:14:39] <foo> mnuhmnuh: hmph, dpkg-reconfigure locales
allowed me to set UTF but no timezone?
3474 [22:14:51] <greycat> mnuhmnuh: sounds like GNOME. Always
wrong, always impossible to fix.
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3477 [22:15:24] <greycat> "but what if I just put the env var
in my .xsessionrc" "nope, GNOME doesn't inherit
anything from your session at all; it spawns everything from
dbus"
3478 [22:15:32] *** Joins: cadeskywalker (~madoka@replaced-ip )
3479 [22:15:36] <greycat> "so I can't fix this..."
"welcome to GNOME"
3480 [22:16:26] <mnuhmnuh> foo: dpkg-reconfigure tzconfig?
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3483 [22:17:35] <mnuhmnuh> or is it just tzconfig?
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3485 [22:17:58] <blackflow> greycat: what's your preferred
DE, btw?
3486 [22:18:04] <greycat> None. I just use fvwm.
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3489 [22:19:06] <jhutchins_wk> I've been using xfce since kde
crashed and burned.
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3491 [22:20:15] *** Joins: MACscr (~MACscr@replaced-ip )
3492 [22:20:22] <blackflow> I grew sick of i3wm. I just gnome
these days because I'm lazy, and thats on Ubuntu. Planning to
switch to Debian and KDE (for plasma 5.12+ sweetness) when Buster
becomes stable.
3493 [22:20:36] <blackflow> (my main worsktation that is)
3494 [22:20:46] *** Joins: phinxy (~ted@replaced-ip )
3495 [22:21:11] <annadane> icewm is really cool
3496 [22:21:19] <annadane> and xfce for "stay out of my way
thx"
3497 [22:22:54] <annadane> dazo,
replaced-url
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3502 [22:26:02] <foo> mnuhmnuh: it's dpkg-reconfigure tzdata
- thank you for getting me started
3503 [22:26:08] <foo> Now, it asks for a city corresponding to
timezone...
3504 [22:26:13] <foo> anyone know a cityin CST that's
popular? heh
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3507 [22:26:33] <greycat> US Central would be Chicago
3508 [22:26:49] <greycat> If you mean something else by CST you
will have to explain.
3509 [22:27:20] <foo> greycat: perfect!
3510 [22:27:31] <foo> greycat: thank you :)
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3556 [22:58:38] <foo> I wonder if I have to reboot for
dpkg-reconfigure tzdata to take effect?
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3558 [22:59:08] <ksk> foo: if you can reboot easily Id recommend
that.
3559 [22:59:26] <ksk> restarting services should be enough though
as far as I can tell you.
3560 [22:59:42] <foo> ksk: yeah, I thought so too - but restarting
the service didn't seem to matter. maybe the timezone is
defined in there, will dig a bit
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3562 [22:59:45] <foo> thanks
3563 [23:00:16] *** Quits: xet7 (~xet7@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
3564 [23:00:27] *** Quits: cdown (~cdown@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3565 [23:01:51] <hypn0> I think there might be several you have to
restart not just 1
3566 [23:01:59] <mnuhmnuh> assuming the old locale isn't
hardcoded in one of your startup files (.bash_profile, ...).
3567 [23:02:12] <foo> hypn0: ah
3568 [23:02:15] <hypn0>
replaced-url
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3570 [23:03:19] <greycat> The obvious thing you'd want to
restart after changing time zone is cron.
3571 [23:03:28] <greycat> Less obvious things may also be running.
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3575 [23:05:33] <vook> Question about
static-bindings/reservations: When a reservation is created, must
the pool be modified to account for it? I've been adding
reservations at the bottom of the zone conf, but when the IP is
still in the pool, it seems other clients tend to pick up the IP.
Example:
replaced-url
3576 [23:05:37] *** Joins: Brigo_ (~Brigo@replaced-ip )
3577 [23:05:40] <vook> in isc-dhcp that is
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3579 [23:06:22] <vook> Basically we're trying to script this
out for our NOC so they can add a reservation without needing to
directly modify the file. If the pool must be adjusted, that makes
scripting it a bit more complicated.
3580 [23:06:49] *** Parts: Matt|home (~matt@replaced-ip ) ()
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3622 [23:30:41] <diverdude> I am running weezy. Is it possible to
install gstreamer1.14 on weezer?
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3630 [23:34:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1594
3631 [23:35:06] <BCMM> diverdude: you mean Debian 7
"wheezy", right?
3632 [23:35:24] <diverdude> BCMM: yeah
3633 [23:35:46] <somiaj> diverdude: wheezy isn't really
supported anymore, and desktopapps are most likely insecure.
3634 [23:35:54] <diverdude> somiaj: i know
3635 [23:35:59] <BCMM> diverdude: that's out of LTS for like
a month and a half now
3636 [23:36:01] <diverdude> somiaj: but i have to use it
3637 [23:36:01] <somiaj> you rea kinda on your own, and yes you
can try to build stuff for it if you like.
3638 [23:36:14] <BCMM> diverdude: is there, like, a really good
reason you can't upgrade?
3639 [23:36:25] <diverdude> BCMM: its running linuxcnc
3640 [23:36:54] <diverdude> BCMM: linuxcnc is using wheezy
realtime capabilities
3641 [23:37:02] *** Quits: hgfd123 (~hgfd123@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
3642 [23:37:10] <BCMM> huh, wheezy had realtime as a supported
option?
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3645 [23:38:04] <BCMM> diverdude: is linux-image-rt-amd64 not
realtime enough?
3646 [23:38:19] *** xcm is now known as Guest96717
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services)))
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3649 [23:38:46] <diverdude> BCMM: is that a newer version of
debian?
3650 [23:38:59] *** Joins: xcm (~xcm@replaced-ip )
3651 [23:39:01] *** Joins: dArK_IcE (~lawl@replaced-ip )
3652 [23:39:13] <BCMM> diverdude: that's a realtime kernel
package, available for [ wheezy ] [ jessie-backports ] [ stretch ] [
stretch-backports ] [ buster ]
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3659 [23:39:39] *** Parts: Neddih (~hidden@replaced-ip ) ()
3660 [23:39:44] <BCMM> using CONFIG_PREEMPT_RT
3661 [23:40:01] *** Quits: freddy_fcch_ (~freddy_fc@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
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3664 [23:40:32] <diverdude> BCMM: aha i see
3665 [23:40:42] <zerocool> does rsync over ssh fork
3666 [23:41:41] *** Joins: inaki (~inaki@replaced-ip )
3667 [23:41:51] <zerocool> and does that mean it'll make
better use of lacp
3668 [23:42:21] *** Joins: freddy (~freddy_fc@replaced-ip )
3669 [23:42:58] <BCMM> diverdude: oh right, it wants
replaced-url
3670 [23:43:07] <BCMM> which seems to legitimately bee only on
wheezy?
3671 [23:43:28] <twobitsprite> zerocool: not sure what forking has
to do with lacp...
3672 [23:43:56] <twobitsprite> zerocool: lacp should split packets
between the routes either way
3673 [23:44:46] <somiaj> still might be better to run a newer
version of debian and comple the few things you need for linuxcnc. I
see various hits on the linuxcnc forms about getting it to work in
jessie or stretch
3674 [23:44:49] <diverdude> BCMM: one guy said he is running it on
mint 18.3 actually after building a Preempt-RT real time kernel
3675 [23:45:06] <somiaj> and since you seem to be using it as a
desktop (gstreamer), you may want stretch, as jessie lost desktop
support recentally, and only has serverside lts support.
3676 [23:45:09] *** Joins: Vizva (~Vizva@replaced-ip )
3677 [23:45:26] <BCMM> somiaj: looks like they provide a debian
repo with jessie kernels at least
replaced-url
3678 [23:45:29] *** Quits: r3m (~r3m@replaced-ip##) (Quit: ZNC - ##replaced-url
3679 [23:45:35] <BCMM> not fantastically searchable...
3680 [23:46:05] *** Joins: rizzo (~RizzoTheR@replaced-ip )
3681 [23:46:11] *** Joins: dArK_IcE (~lawl@replaced-ip )
3682 [23:46:45] <BCMM>
replaced-url
3683 [23:47:43] *** Quits: loader (~loader@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3684 [23:50:24] *** Quits: cph (~cph@replaced-ip ) (Quit: leaving)
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3691 [23:52:53] *** Quits: Sir_Designer (~Sir_Desig@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3692 [23:52:53] <diverdude> BCMM: i dont know what the difference
between rtai and rt-prempt is
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