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• 8[00:06:21] <folial> hello guys!!
• 9[00:07:32] <folial> did anyone get to have some flavour of FlashPlayer working in Stretch?
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• 61[00:34:36] <xaeB5> if i accidently copied all the old dotfiles from my old home directory to a new install (different DE) what would be the best way to restore my home directory to the orignal dotfiles, create a new user and delete this one?
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• 64[00:35:40] <xaeB5> also not sure if it's related, but the resolution on this monitor attached to a laptop is 1280x800 and i'm not sure how to set it to 1080p since it's not an option in the display settings
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• 98[00:51:23] <backtrack_> hi
• 99[00:51:35] <backtrack_> how to mount a raspberry image on debian?
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• 104[00:54:35] <awal1> how to check default screen color temperature?
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• 106[00:55:17] <awal1> I use 'sct' for adjust it but how to verify actual temp?
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• 164[01:22:56] <awal1> what wicd does exactly in background for change dhcp hostname?
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• 206[01:52:57] <ian___> will debian buster have ff quantum
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• 209[01:54:37] <awal1> sure
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• 212[01:56:32] <Wolf20180328> Hi all, can someone explain me why I can't type username and password on openvpn like this printf '<USERNAME>\n<PASSWORD'> | sudo openvpn ./Conf.ovpn
• 213[01:56:51] <Wolf20180328> I know I can use auth-user-pass and I've got this working but I still can't understand why it doesn't work with printf
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• 215[01:57:03] <Wolf20180328> While I can do yes | sudo apt-get install something
• 216[01:57:22] <awal1> aireplay-ng will not inject on a 5ghz network if the monitor card doesn't support 5ghz, right?
• 217[01:57:24] <Wolf20180328> I tried to read some answers on stackexchange but everybody says something different
• 218[01:57:28] <awal1> obvious, I guess
• 219[01:57:31] <Wolf20180328> awall yes
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• 221[01:57:32] <annadane> ian___, yes. however, if your question is "i'm on stable and can't get firefox quantum and so am considering an upgrade to testing", don't
• 222[01:57:38] <annadane> there are other ways of getting it
• 223[01:57:42] <annadane> see wiki.debian.org/Firefox
• 224[01:57:54] <annadane> actually, i'm not sure it even is in buster currently
• 225[01:57:56] <annadane> ,v firefox
• 226[01:57:57] <judd> Package: firefox on amd64 -- jessie-backports/firefox-release: 52.0-1~bpo80+1; sid: 59.0.2-1
• 227[01:57:58] <awal1> Wolf20180328, ok
• 228[01:58:00] <annadane> yeah, it's not
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• 230[01:58:22] <Wolf20180328> awall I tried it once no way, so I can be pretty sure
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• 232[01:58:58] <awal1> Wolf20180328, that is oobvious but I wanted to confirm :P
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• 234[01:59:48] <annadane> it probably will _eventually_ be in buster
• 235[01:59:55] <Wolf20180328> awall for me it wasn't obvious lol I didn't even know 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz networks existed
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• 237[02:00:06] <awal1> you know: wifi card in use no supports for 5ghz= no connection to 5ghz network= no injection in that network
• 238[02:00:10] <awal1> Wolf20180328,
• 239[02:00:14] <annadane> oh, do you mean buster as in when buster is debian stable? in that case it will be firefox-esr (probably) but it will indeed be based on quantum
• 240[02:00:26] <annadane> 59, i believe
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• 242[02:00:55] <awal1> stable will include -esr
• 243[02:01:04] <awal1> quantum -esr
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• 245[02:01:26] <awal1> an esr is available every 6 months I think
• 246[02:01:27] <annadane> right, it basically has to be esr for stable
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• 248[02:01:47] <ian___> How do you get quantum on stable (9)
• 249[02:01:51] <awal1> buster will be released around may 2019?
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• 251[02:01:59] <awal1> so calculate
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• 253[02:02:26] <annadane> ian___, as i said, see wiki.debian.org/Firefox
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• 255[02:02:56] <ian___> can i get it from jessie backports?
• 256[02:03:01] <annadane> and that page actually has an error, now that i look at it
• 257[02:03:10] <annadane> ian___, no, because you shouldn't mix stable with other repositories
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• 259[02:03:20] <annadane> also, that is 52, not quantum (57)
• 260[02:03:41] <ian___> oh, my bado
• 261[02:03:57] <awal1> ian___, for get an idea about which esr version will be included in buster, check when last esr has been introduced and calculate; an esr is released every 6 month; buster released around may 2019
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• 263[02:05:24] <annadane> (well, other repositories except backports, that is. but stable-backports, not other backports)
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• 266[02:05:52] <annadane> and *occasionally* some (trusted) upstream repos
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• 269[02:06:17] <annadane> (and no, firefox isn't in stable-backports)
• 270[02:06:55] <dvs> it's not allowed to
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• 275[02:09:15] <ian___> so mainstream firefox is a literal manual install?
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• 277[02:09:38] <ian___> ugh
• 278[02:09:53] <awal1> btw, stretch release was 2016 or 2017?
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• 281[02:10:24] <annadane> 17
• 282[02:10:27] <annadane> june
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• 286[02:11:25] <bites> we had a betting pool. who won?
• 287[02:11:43] <awal1> iam___, ff standard releases are made every month or so; debian can not follow that for obvious reasons (team availability, bug fixes...); so the esr branch is the one that matches deb. stable branch
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• 291[02:12:23] <bites> firefox release also doesn't build on stable, hence no backports
• 292[02:12:24] <awal1> not sure about chormium
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• 294[02:12:51] <ian___> o
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• 299[02:14:58] <awal1> ian___, why you want quantum?
• 300[02:15:16] <awal1> what do you expect to find with it vs current esr?
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• 303[02:16:02] <awal1> I have quantum on sid and for a regular user, nothing really special, just a new themming
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• 326[02:29:47] <Wolf20180328> Can someone explain me why I can't type username and password on openvpn like this printf '<USERNAME>\n<PASSWORD'> | sudo openvpn ./Conf.ovpn
• 327[02:29:53] <Wolf20180328> I know I can use auth-user-pass and I've got this working but I still can't understand why it doesn't work with printf
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• 331[02:32:07] <Wolf20180328> Can't believe nobody know the answer...
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• 334[02:37:50] <annadane> i'm not sure why someone wants to use firefox is relevant
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• 373[03:18:14] <ttim> hi
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• 382[03:23:13] <themill> Wolf20180328: you can't redirect input into sudo like that
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• 392[03:26:13] <powabanga> !paste
• 393[03:26:13] <dpkg> Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use: replaced-url
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• 401[03:33:17] <Pendrag0n3> I've tried #IT, #Datacetner, #Datacetners, #server, #servers, #APC, #serveradmin, #PowerEdge, #SystemAdministrators, etc. I can't find any rooms with any data center employees. I don't know where else to ask..
• 402[03:33:19] <Pendrag0n3> I am running Debian from 12 dell power edge servers in a full APC rack here in my house. I just got a thermometer setup at the top of the rack inside, and it is at 77 degrees Fahrenheit. Is that good enough?
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• 409[03:37:01] <Pendrag0n3> I hate nights like this, 15 hundred people here, and no one speaking or answering questions. 10 years ago, there would be 1/100th the people, and yet answers would be flying by left and right.
• 410[03:37:55] <annadane> i'm sorry. i don't know the answer to your question. :(
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• 412[03:39:14] <frostschutz> Pendrag0n, I'd throw it out in the bin and get one that shows celsius but maybe that's just me
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• 414[03:39:18] <nashimus> D:
• 415[03:39:19] <nashimus> :D
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• 417[03:39:40] <Pendrag0n3> oh, it shows both, either way, I don't know what the good temp is for the top of a rack
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• 419[03:40:27] <Pendrag0n3> I also bought a usb stick that can work with the servers, and show their temp, and send emails and texts, but there are 2 very expensive switches at the top of the rack, and they don't have a way of monitoring temp
• 420[03:40:30] *** Quits: BaW (~BaW@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 421[03:40:44] <annadane> i feel like there has to be a debian package for this
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• 423[03:41:15] <annadane> though what's "acceptable" is probably very subjective
• 424[03:41:20] <n4dir> I am not that sure if i would trust the common guy on IRC regarding such questions. Sounds to me as if $ would be involved.
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• 427[03:41:55] <dvs> Pendrag0n3, I wouldn't put the switches at the top if you don't want to let the heat get to them.
• 428[03:41:56] <annadane> apt install turnoffyourf!@#$computerbeforeyoublowuptheplanet
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• 430[03:43:54] <Pendragon> actually, there is a deb package for it. But the rack is 1200 pounds empty, and now it is completely full, probably 3000 pounds, I don't want to have to move it to get to the switches if I don't have to
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• 432[03:44:30] <Pendragon> anywho,... I guess I'll go back to googling, I was just curious if anyone knew if 77F was okay for the temp at the top of a rack and /or for switches.
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• 442[03:49:25] <abrotman> 77F seems low to be honest
• 443[03:49:27] <rocketmagnet> hi all, how can i install php7.2 ? i can't find only php7.0 but not the 7.2, any hints ?
• 444[03:50:12] <dvs> ,v php
• 445[03:50:13] <judd> Package: php on amd64 -- stretch: 1:7.0+49; buster: 1:7.2+60; sid: 1:7.2+60
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• 447[03:50:25] <rocketmagnet> im using stable
• 448[03:50:30] <rocketmagnet> debian 9.4
• 449[03:50:47] <rocketmagnet> i need php7..2
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• 451[03:51:05] <dvs> rocketmagnet, yeah, getting 7.2 into stable is going to be a royal pain since a lot of packages in stretch depend on 7.0
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• 453[03:51:41] <rocketmagnet> wordpress needs 7.2 :X, what can i do to make it work ?
• 454[03:52:16] <rocketmagnet> i can still have 7.0 installed but i also need 7.2
• 455[03:52:27] <annadane> i guess probably the simplest thing is a vm running sid
• 456[03:52:47] <annadane> though yeah wordpress... maybe shouldn't be run on sid
• 457[03:53:02] * annadane shuts up and lurks.
• 458[03:53:05] <rocketmagnet> what's the most comm vm for linux ?
• 459[03:53:11] <n4dir> wouldn't it make sense to install wordpress from debian repos?
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• 462[03:53:25] <rocketmagnet> i want to use the latest wordpress
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• 464[03:53:53] <n4dir> wanting to use the lates <xyz> and debian don't work that well together.
• 465[03:54:10] <rocketmagnet> so using vm ware
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• 468[03:54:29] <rocketmagnet> ?
• 469[03:54:45] <annadane> oh, web blogging. i thought it was a server thing. well, it may be possible to safely run it on sid then
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• 471[03:54:56] <annadane> idk.
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• 473[03:55:22] <n4dir> annadane: i don't know the subject well, but i think that wordpress is a software often attacked.
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• 475[03:56:01] <annadane> yeah, it is
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• 477[03:56:53] <annadane> by "safely" i meant more, less likely to break and go down when you need the uptime, but sure
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• 481[03:58:25] <rocketmagnet> when running sid in vmware, it does not has any effekt ony my installation right ?
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• 483[03:59:10] <annadane> i don't know about vmware but yeah the point of virtual machines is that what happens in there doesn't affect the host (though i've heard of malware type things that can break out of a vm)
• 484[03:59:24] <annadane> "i've heard of" isn't reliable at all, mind
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• 486[04:00:11] <bites> Pendragon: look up the operating temperatures for your hardware if you need to know exactly but 77°F sounds perfectly fine with room in either direction.
• 487[04:00:32] <annadane> ^
• 488[04:00:41] <annadane> was going to say something similar but didn't want to sound stupid
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• 530[04:26:17] <annadane> is there a wiki or can anyone offer advice on general backup strategies, in terms of moving stuff over to a new system
• 531[04:26:29] <annadane> i know there's things like ansible, but i'm just thinking of what needs to be copied over
• 532[04:26:34] <annadane> i guess the majority of /etc
• 533[04:27:24] <n4dir> annadane: /etc is very small (in general). I would just rsync the whole shebang.
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• 535[04:27:44] <annadane> eww
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• 537[04:27:53] <annadane> now i have to study my rsync syntax
• 538[04:27:57] <n4dir> but then: all of the OS is only a few Gigabytes (again: in general). I would just exclude home and do that on it's own
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• 541[04:28:11] <n4dir> annadane: didn't you have a thread at linuxquestions bout rsync ?
• 542[04:28:15] <n4dir> :-)
• 543[04:28:24] <pav> mornin' all
• 544[04:28:27] <annadane> you have... a very good memory
• 545[04:28:51] <n4dir> i don't know many subjects, rsync i did know in the past, and annadane is a name easy to remember.
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• 548[04:30:00] <pav> rsync again? :) It's this time of year. still chill :)
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• 551[04:30:35] <n4dir> annadane: usually i rsync -auv /etc /root/backup_etc after installing. Something like a few MB, iirc. (don't take the syntax for true, i only give the idea, and it's the middle of the night)
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• 554[04:31:28] <annadane> yeah idk. i'd have to really bunker down and study everything i'd want to copy
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• 556[04:31:35] <annadane> i don't plan to do it soon, it was more a general question
• 557[04:32:51] <n4dir> like said: i would do all of the OS with rsync but exclude home, I would do all of the hidden user files on it's own, and last but not least whatever i want of the data.
• 558[04:33:52] <n4dir> so i don't have to make much decisions what i want and what not. (with enough harddisk space at hand i simply rsync *everything*)
• 559[04:34:29] <annadane> since moving to stable i'm becoming less obsessive about backups :P
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• 562[04:35:09] <n4dir> ha. yeah. I pretty much gave up on it. When i ran sid i was very obsessive about it. Now i don't do backups at all.
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• 564[04:36:23] <n4dir> the good thing about rsync is that really many people know it very well.
• 565[04:37:10] <idustyb> Perhaps it's a good opportunity to consider what, and why, you are backing up? :P
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• 567[04:38:50] <idustyb> I used to backup a lot of my system, and user, configuration files - primarily to use them between workstations. I now use SCM (github), which simplified everything, and met my requirements.
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• 569[04:40:04] <idustyb> @annadane
• 570[04:40:42] <annadane> oh! yeah, of course. i didn't even consider github
• 571[04:40:45] <idustyb> Additionally; anything more important, personal files like pictures - I store on a NAS with reasonable redundancy (Raid 5 and 4 HDD's)
• 572[04:42:23] <idustyb> @annadane: it's great! One of the best moves I've made for backups of these things. I use some branches to manage different 'types' of configuration. So I may have configuration_nftables repo, with master, test, dev, and even flags like 'router' that pull down my gateway rules.
• 573[04:43:19] <idustyb> A little time to setup - but awesome in the long run. I'm sure I don't need to remind you, or anyone; don't commit sensitive material in public repo's ;) Far worth the what... 4$ or whatever subscription (Or another free private provider)
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• 576[04:44:05] <annadane> well, 4$ and assuming you can trust it in the first place
• 577[04:44:12] <annadane> that's a subjective matter
• 578[04:44:12] <n4dir> you are probably right, but to me one of the most easy things to do is screw a git repo ...
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• 580[04:44:26] <annadane> my confidential stuff is basically on my external drive
• 581[04:44:42] <idustyb> @n4dir: That is quite accurate also. I guess there is a bit of work behind it.
• 582[04:44:51] <annadane> honestly though, with stable... i very likely won't need to transfer anything for 3-4 years and only if the hardware fails
• 583[04:44:59] <n4dir> sure worth to learn it, but to me git is really tough idustyb
• 584[04:45:02] <idustyb> @annadane: Yeah true! You could host your own I guess (GitLab?).
• 585[04:45:19] <idustyb> @n4dir: I've been using it for years and still occasionally mess something up!
• 586[04:45:29] <n4dir> gitolite i ran for a while. It was not hard to set up.
• 587[04:45:40] <n4dir> idustyb: :-) see
• 588[04:46:08] <Wolf20180328> I solved my doubts at #openvpn, openvpn get the username and password using getpass(). Stdin is more or less ignored, so using printf, echo, or whatever won't work. Also, script -c can bypass it (but only as root). It took me a while to figure out why I couldn't just pipe my username and password to openvpn as I wasn't getting the difference between the terminal, /dev/tty, and stdout/stdin when piped
• 589[04:46:09] <annadane> prism-break.org and privacytools.io are quite good, especially the former (pt.io is a little too verbose), there's an emphasis on encryption and so on and then it's sort of up to the user to decide what they're most comfortable with
• 590[04:46:55] <bites> i use ssh + a simple bare git repo for remote repos i use alone.
• 591[04:47:36] <Wolf20180328> privacytools.io is promoting stuff like Signal under Chat apps and Video chat application for mobile while I think whenever Google, there can't be privacy (IMO)
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• 593[04:47:41] <rocketmagnet> which vmware can i use to use sid ? vmware workstation only offers me 9.4 but not testing :(
• 594[04:47:49] <n4dir> annadane: for a while i cared a lot for the freedombox project of debian (and others). "debian + leaving the cloud" is a nice list you could compare with prism-break.org
• 595[04:47:56] <rocketmagnet> annadane: ^
• 596[04:48:09] <annadane> i don't know about vmware, sadly
• 597[04:48:16] <annadane> you can try using virt-manager
• 598[04:48:39] <annadane> but again, only if you're comfortable running wordpress under sid, where wordpress is an application frequently under attack
• 599[04:48:52] <annadane> sid is inherently less secure (though not terribly less so)
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• 601[04:49:31] <annadane> anyway yeah for the backup thing git repo is probably simplest
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• 603[04:49:52] <idustyb> I agree with @annadane. In it's very definition; I'd only be using SID in a development environment :P And keep it locked down (as a dev environment should be anyway)
• 604[04:49:54] <bites> that's more config management than a backup
• 605[04:50:40] <annadane> well, if you clone the repo
• 606[04:50:45] <idustyb> @bites: Agreed, though it meets the capability requirements (I assumed) when @annadane suggested /etc folder.
• 607[04:50:53] <annadane> though yeah obviously you can't directly backup from git
• 608[04:51:03] <idustyb> If you're storing 'data' in there otherwise; you're likely doing it wrong? :P
• 609[04:51:13] <bites> i just rsync everything and exclude proc sys and dev for things that i want to be able to restore without dicking around for hours.
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• 611[04:51:26] <idustyb> This is where my NAS raid 5 is important. Though I'm freaking out about running out of storage lol
• 612[04:51:33] <annadane> rocketmagnet, are you really sure you need a newer wordpress, does the one in stable not do what you want?
• 613[04:51:42] <annadane> oh, yeah, i need to go and buy more storage
• 614[04:51:47] <n4dir> bites: yup, imho the restore part is pretty straight forward if you go for rsync.
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• 617[04:52:33] <idustyb> @bites: I guess if it's the exact same host, especially configuration like packages etc; perhaps rsync isn't the end of the world.
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• 619[04:53:27] <idustyb> @bites: i like that I can just pull the configuration for whatever app I run manually. It also encourages me to be minimalistic, as there is overhead in initial setup and overall management.
• 620[04:53:53] <annadane> also unspoken in all this is that no matter what you run, you can have the most robust system in the world and it can still blow up in very rare cases, so periodic backups anyway are not a bad idea
• 621[04:54:02] <bites> i'm too chaotic to keep things that organised. D:
• 622[04:54:18] <idustyb> @bites: Nice lol
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• 624[04:55:05] <idustyb> @annadane: there's also other benefits in SCM right? I built a CI, including testing, for my firewall rules and my home gateway.
• 625[04:55:30] <annadane> i actually don't know what those acronyms mean
• 626[04:55:31] <idustyb> So when I found things I had missed on my casual endpoints, I could quickly add them to the appropriate branch, commit - if everything passed - BAM! Gateway firewall up to date.
• 627[04:55:42] <annadane> oh source control management
• 628[04:55:44] <n4dir> probably something with "content management"
• 629[04:55:47] <n4dir> ah, source.
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• 631[04:55:52] <annadane> CI, i don't know
• 632[04:55:54] <idustyb> Oh sorry. SCM = Source Code Management, and CI = Continuous Integration
• 633[04:56:34] * n4dir still can't see what is the advantage compared to rsync everything.
• 634[04:56:47] <annadane> i should invest in _proper_ backups and that's homework for me, i'm ignorant as to what's really good
• 635[04:57:08] <idustyb> @annadane: Hence I suggest; consider what, and why, you are backing up. :P Then pick some solutions.
• 636[04:57:14] <dvs> rsnapshot?
• 637[04:57:45] <bites> ci is a good idea. thanks lol. i sync my firewalls with svn right now but no sanity checks.
• 638[04:57:48] <idustyb> Configurations: SCM! Data: A NAS with at least 'some' fault tolerance. - at least in my opinion.
• 639[04:58:37] <idustyb> @bites: :D Hehehe it's a lot of fun to setup too. Spin up a vm, deploy rules. Do some basic 'sanity' checks (Does the host respond to ping.). GG: DEPLOY!
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• 641[04:58:57] <idustyb> Did I say fun? I mean tedious. I guess it was fun too.
• 642[04:59:30] <n4dir> as long it wasn't funtoo.
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• 647[05:00:08] <annadane> grace, too
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• 649[05:00:44] <dvs> good song! ;-)
• 650[05:01:42] <n4dir> idustyb: SCM for config files as that way you could go easily back to older versions of the file?
• 651[05:02:16] <annadane> by backups i mean more files, pictures, videos, etc... config files are kilobytes and of course can go on any number of git-like repos
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• 653[05:03:41] <n4dir> annadane: then why not just rsync (for example) everything to a different PC or laptop or such?
• 654[05:03:58] <n4dir> i mean really everything, including the OS
• 655[05:04:38] <annadane> yeah, i probably will. we're just being nerds and having fun discussing things because we can
• 656[05:04:53] <n4dir> ha. I see. good way of thinking
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• 659[05:06:07] <n4dir> annadane: if you are a bit into bash it is a good training script. With arguments you could tell what to backup (OS, data, config files). Would be not too difficult, but difficult enough to have some fun
• 660[05:06:48] <n4dir> most part of it will be tests though: does the device where you want to rsync to exist. Is it mounted, etc.
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• 663[05:08:44] <idustyb> @n4dir: lol funtoo >.<
• 664[05:09:05] <annadane> i love it, giant convuluted discussion about backup options, "just use rsync... idiot"
• 665[05:09:06] <n4dir> and you could even run it as a cron-job.
• 666[05:09:18] <n4dir> :-)
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• 672[05:09:56] <VPS> replaced-url
• 673[05:09:56] <VPS> replaced-url
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• 676[05:10:42] <idustyb> @n4dir: Sounds like a trap!
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• 678[05:11:04] <n4dir> i didn't understand, sorry.
• 679[05:11:11] <annadane> i'll save everything in a facebook message and send it to myself, i'm sure that's fine...
• 680[05:11:20] <n4dir> ha ha. Now we talk.
• 681[05:11:22] <idustyb> Just poking a little fun! Though I would be careful of a cron-like backup.
• 682[05:11:41] <annadane> yeah, i would be too
• 683[05:11:44] <idustyb> @annadane: That's only one level of redundancy. Don't forget to store the rest in public google docs.
• 684[05:11:52] <n4dir> as of now i couldn't make any sense of cron, though it seems rather easy. Just it would be possible ...
• 685[05:12:30] <idustyb> @n4dir: A cron job is most definitely viable. Must also consider it then rsync a bad configuration. The very configuration that renders your system unusable.
• 686[05:12:54] <n4dir> but yes, probably a shitty idea (though iirc some of the gui tools which build on rsync do it too, after logging in or such)
• 687[05:13:51] <idustyb> @n4dir: I don't think anything is really a 'shitty' idea. :P
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• 689[05:16:22] <n4dir> i got lots of questions and info in the scripts. This and this will happen, are you sure you want to go on, and such. So running it "manual" was the natural decision. I just did it each friday.
• 690[05:17:00] <n4dir> besides that i can't make much sense of cron. which probably was the main reaon.
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• 693[05:17:22] <annadane> man cron --> example section...
• 694[05:17:48] <n4dir> thanks. :-) i got to run. Later all.
• 695[05:17:57] *** Quits: nobodi (~nobodi@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 696[05:18:18] <idustyb> @n4dir: There's a cool website called corntab that helps out with cron, if you're having basic issues with it.
• 697[05:18:24] <annadane> and of course now that i check it doesn't _have_ an examples section
• 698[05:18:30] <annadane> oh, neat dusty
• 699[05:18:31] <n4dir> thanks idustyb
• 700[05:18:38] <idustyb> @n4dir: Like all of these tools, there's so much now involved in even understanding the underlying technologies - let alone using them.
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• 702[05:18:52] <u0_a234> zzz
• 703[05:19:12] <annadane> i'm resigned to the fact that i'll never need 99% of options and arguments for any number of things
• 704[05:19:28] <n4dir> i got no idea what my problems were. It sounded rather easy, but it never really worked well. And i pretty much am never in the need of a cron job. But now i really got to go. Bye :-)
• 705[05:19:31] <idustyb> Re; rsync - I've personally run into issues in which two environments had two different versions - caused huge headaches. (Note: I didn't set them up. They were test and production - theoretically should have been identical)
• 706[05:19:50] *** Quits: n4dir (~user@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
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• 708[05:20:32] <annadane> replaced-url
• 709[05:20:37] *** Joins: bars0 (~Name@replaced-ip)
• 710[05:20:51] <idustyb> So we found this script developed in test then failed in production. uuugh
• 711[05:21:11] *** Quits: hbautista (~hbautista@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 712[05:21:31] <idustyb> @annadane: Naughty! Try `replaced-url
• 713[05:21:53] <annadane> i just pasted the first result on duckduckgo
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• 715[05:22:06] <idustyb> lol
• 716[05:22:07] *** Joins: DHowett (~dustin@replaced-ip)
• 717[05:22:41] <idustyb> Wonder why it didn't return the secure version. Oh wells.
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• 719[05:24:20] <DHowett> so this is strange. I've got unattended-upgrades set up to pull all packages labelled Debian and Debian-Security. so, out of the blue it's gone and installed build-essential, gcc and everything, as of match 19th.
• 720[05:24:40] <DHowett> on sid, unfortunately, so I realize i'm exposing myself to some level of this stuff ;P
• 721[05:24:54] <idustyb> Perhaps there was a child requirement? Did it install anything specific alongside that package at the time?
• 722[05:25:01] *** Quits: jordanm (~jordanm@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 723[05:25:30] <idustyb> Or one of your other packages required them to build out a kernel from yet ANOTHER package? (All hypothesis; and I'm far from great with apt)
• 724[05:25:37] <DHowett> it looks like it upgraded `dh-python libapparmor1 libcryptsetup12 libsqlite3-0 libx11-6 libx11-data`
• 725[05:25:42] <DHowett> perhaps that was dh-python's doing
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• 727[05:26:21] <idustyb> `apt-cache show <package>` is a great way to investigate futher.
• 728[05:26:28] *** Joins: jordanm (~jordanm@replaced-ip)
• 729[05:26:37] <DHowett> indeed. i'll use dpkg-query and friends to figure out a dep tree
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• 731[05:26:40] <DHowett> thanks!
• 732[05:26:58] <idustyb> I'd be interested in how you do this? So you're going to determine what triggered the install of those?
• 733[05:27:01] <idustyb> Using dpkg?
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• 735[05:29:40] <DHowett> ah, perhaps dpkg can't tell me what I want. `apt rdepends` (or apt-cache rdepends) is alright for finding reverse dependencies
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• 739[05:30:43] <idustyb> Ah okay!
• 740[05:30:47] <annadane> or aptitude why foo
• 741[05:30:56] <idustyb> apt or go home!
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• 743[05:31:01] <idustyb> (jk jk of course)
• 744[05:31:22] <annadane> i mean if you're stupid e- um, willing enough to use sid in the first place aptitude is not a bad suggestion
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• 749[05:31:55] <idustyb> @annadane: Sid isn't that bad!
• 750[05:33:02] <donofrio> how do I get the "receive-key" out of an 'add-apt-repository?'
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• 752[05:33:56] <DHowett> `aptitude why` was exactly what I wanted: apt _suggests_ dpkg-dev, dpkg-dev _recommends_ build-essential
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• 755[05:34:33] <idustyb> Interesting.
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• 757[05:34:58] <DHowett> which is fascinating, as I have Apt::Get::Install-Recommends/Suggests set to false . . . and it appears that ::Get is not the appropriate namespace for those config options
• 758[05:35:01] <DHowett> argh
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• 760[05:36:35] <idustyb> @DHowett: What's the frequency of unatended-upgrades anyway? Surely, with sid, if it's just polling consistently; you'd be getting frustrated with 'updates available' notifications?
• 761[05:36:45] <idustyb> (Obviously not related to your query, sorry)
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• 763[05:37:18] <DHowett> idustyb: this runs every night & completes install around 6 AM. it's a headless box that's serving as my network's domain controller, so I don't get much in the way of notifications from it :)
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• 765[05:37:38] <idustyb> @DHowett: Ah right!
• 766[05:37:43] <DHowett> yes, the folly in using 1. sid, 2. some little ARM machine, 3. unattended-upgrades of more than just Security as my domain controller isn't lost on me!
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• 768[05:38:09] <DHowett> thanks for the help, all!
• 769[05:38:30] <idustyb> I'm pretty sure you solved your own issue. :P
• 770[05:38:33] <idustyb> But; welcome!? Lol
• 771[05:38:51] *** Quits: pnepe6_ (~pnepe6@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 772[05:38:59] <annadane> get used to it, people will thank you for literally anything
• 773[05:39:19] <idustyb> @annadane: Ah right! Thanks for clarifying! :P
• 774[05:39:43] <DHowett> to be fair, I did install aptitude to run `aptitude why`, then uninstalled the lot of them -- so annadane may have helped a tiny bit ;)
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• 778[05:40:57] <idustyb> @DHowett: Ooh! Nice.
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• 790[05:49:07] <idustyb> Oops >.>
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• 792[05:50:19] <bites> donofrio: are you trying to add a missing key or do you want to inspect a key that was added?
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• 795[05:53:48] <r_rios> Hello, all. apt is taking a tremendously long time to start the download of any package. If I run apt install something, it gets stuck in 0% [Working] for a solid minute and only _then_ the download starts. I tried changing servers, but got no luck. Any ideas why?
• 796[05:54:12] <idustyb> @r_rios: did you perform an `apt update` after changing servers?
• 797[05:54:36] <idustyb> I know I had a lot of issues with a local mirror recently. Was failling to download a package; ant? If I remember right.
• 798[05:55:18] <DHowett> r_rios: could it be an ipv6 issue? try using `apt install -o Acquire::ForceIPv4=true package[s]`
• 799[05:55:28] <DHowett> i know some configurations take a long time to time out failing ipv6 connections
• 800[05:55:40] <idustyb> Literally last night, now I think about it.
• 801[05:56:15] <r_rios> DHowett: Nope, same problem
• 802[05:56:30] <r_rios> idustyb: yes
• 803[05:56:54] <idustyb> Is it just the first package that stalls for a good minute? or is it each package?
• 804[05:57:03] <idustyb> @r_rios
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• 810[05:59:25] <r_rios> idustyb: I think it's the first package
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• 812[05:59:49] <DHowett> (somewhat glad it wasn't ipv6: my ability to troubleshoot that issue stops at getting apt to not use it ;P)
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• 814[06:00:31] <idustyb> @r_rios: Could be DNS, though a minute is a long time. Or the fact it says 'working', some kind of task apt is performing before the download?
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• 816[06:03:35] <r_rios> idustyb: ping is ok, so I don't think it has anything to do with the dns
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• 820[06:05:17] <idustyb> Might be silly, and not possible; can you roll out a small minimal vm and see if it shows the same?
• 821[06:05:46] <idustyb> Actually; how much ram does it have?
• 822[06:07:03] <r_rios> 8G
• 823[06:07:19] <idustyb> Heh Right.
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• 827[06:10:49] <idustyb> @r_rios: Yeah. I guess I'd be spinning up a minimal VM to see if it's host isolated, or an overall environment issue.
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• 829[06:11:46] <idustyb> @r_rios: I'm far from authorative in here, so please consider my responses purely exactly that; a suggestion!
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• 835[06:15:30] <Scriptonaut> I have a bit of an issue, I want to install debian on an SSD I have. I lost my usb drive, and just put together a new computer so my dvd drive doesn't work (it's IDE). I was thinking I could write the installer directly to the hdd then boot from the hdd. I looked up unetbootin, however it doesn't recognize or can't find the drive, even though I formatted it as FAT32, and gave it a letter.
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• 837[06:15:44] <Scriptonaut> can anyone help me figure out a way to install debian on an ssd from windows?
• 838[06:16:02] <Scriptonaut> without using a usb drive or cd/dvd
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• 844[06:17:38] <idustyb> You could setup VIrtualbox, pass through the storage direct, and install in a VM?
• 845[06:17:53] <idustyb> @Scriptonaut: I hate myself for that suggestion.
• 846[06:17:55] <Scriptonaut> install what in a VM? Debian?
• 847[06:18:16] <Scriptonaut> ah, I'm trying to setup my daily machine, this windows thing is just what the machine came with, I definitely don't wanna use windows I don't know how to do anything on it
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• 851[06:18:53] <idustyb> @Scriptonaut: Oh. I did not understand sorry.
• 852[06:18:59] <Scriptonaut> no worries
• 853[06:19:00] <annadane> replaced-url
• 854[06:19:13] <idustyb> @Scriptonaut: Are you sure it's not just an efi configuration or something that's not allowing it to boot?
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• 856[06:19:17] <annadane> hmm, no, not helpful
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• 859[06:20:02] <Scriptonaut> man, I got myself into a bad situation here lol
• 860[06:20:18] <Scriptonaut> I was thinking I could try making a PXE server on my laptop
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• 863[06:21:01] <annadane> i wonder if jidgo has a niche use case for something like this
• 864[06:21:12] <annadane> it's cross platform afaik
• 865[06:21:30] <annadane> well, i should shut up if i don't know what i'm talking about
• 866[06:21:37] <Scriptonaut> it's all good, anything is helpful
• 867[06:21:48] <Scriptonaut> I'm jsut at a loss of what to do, no bootable media other than the actual hdd
• 868[06:21:49] <annadane> s/jidgo/jigdo
• 869[06:21:50] <idustyb> @Scriptonaut: Surely you have a USB somewhere!? The time invested in setting up and configuring a PXE seems tedious.
• 870[06:22:02] <Scriptonaut> idustyb: I thought I did, it fell off my keychain
• 871[06:22:10] <idustyb> @Scriptonaut: Though; you may find someone has some 'containerised' system that's all tweaked to supply such a service really quickly?
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• 874[06:22:43] <Scriptonaut> I think there's a livecd thing I could try
• 875[06:22:45] <DHowett> Scriptonaut: chance you've got a USB<->SATA bridge? you could repartition and then use `debootstrap' to bootstrap debian on the drive ;P
• 876[06:22:51] <Scriptonaut> but that comes with mate or w/e the current wm debian uses
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• 878[06:23:13] <annadane> replaced-url
• 879[06:23:14] <Scriptonaut> nah, wasn't even aware usb-sata bridges were a thing
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• 881[06:23:50] <idustyb> @Scriptonaut: You still have to get it on the medium.
• 882[06:24:04] <Scriptonaut> hmm, annadane that thing might work
• 883[06:24:12] <Scriptonaut> the hd-media/initrd.gz, etc
• 884[06:24:15] <alkisg> (07:15:44 πμ) Scriptonaut: can anyone help me figure out a way to install debian on an ssd from windows? => win32-loader does that, unless you're using uefi
• 885[06:24:16] <DHowett> if it's UEFI, you can grab the EFI shell, drop the shell, the kernel, and the install ramdisk onto the hard drive and boot from there
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• 887[06:24:45] <Scriptonaut> alkisg: huh, I'll check out win32-loader
• 888[06:24:46] <alkisg> Also, if you have a laptop, you can make it a pxe server with a couple of commands
• 889[06:25:03] <idustyb> What arch is the new computer? What arch is your laptop?
• 890[06:25:29] <Scriptonaut> idustyb: both amd64 I think
• 891[06:25:54] <Scriptonaut> alkisg: ya, I don't remember PXE servers being *that* bad to setup
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• 893[06:26:04] <Scriptonaut> I don't rememeber how to boot from a PXE server though
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• 895[06:26:17] <idustyb> @Scriptonaut: Some of these other suggestions are probably better. Perhaps do a minimal install swapping your laptop HDD with this destination drive and then back again? Lol
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• 897[06:26:35] <alkisg> Scriptonaut: I've made a one-liner for that in the past, and although it's for ubuntu, you can netboot with that and dump debian to the target: replaced-url
• 898[06:26:54] <idustyb> @Scriptonaut: I believe there's more to just setting up the PXE Server right? You then have to configure a boot target. But again; I've only done this once. lol
• 899[06:27:04] <Scriptonaut> ya
• 900[06:27:18] <Scriptonaut> I haven't done it in like 6 years or something so I completely forgot how
• 901[06:27:20] <alkisg> The laptop configuration would be: f12 => boot from network, that 's all
• 902[06:27:27] <alkisg> I'm doing it 10 times per day here :)
• 903[06:27:48] <DHowett> alkisg: clever! people might shy away from piping 6k of untrusted (though verifiable!) code into sudo though
• 904[06:27:57] <alkisg> DHowett: in a live cd?
• 905[06:28:04] <DHowett> oh, i missed that part. doubly clever!
• 906[06:28:07] <alkisg> :)
• 907[06:28:18] <alkisg> And, it's not 6k, it's 10 lines or so
• 908[06:28:53] <alkisg> Ah bytes not lines, ok :D
• 909[06:29:11] <alkisg> $ wc -l /tmp/livecd-netboot =>196 /tmp/livecd-netboot
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• 912[06:29:55] <annadane> you guys are way smarter than i'll ever be
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• 914[06:30:12] <Scriptonaut> alkisg: the laptop is ubuntu
• 915[06:30:33] <alkisg> Scriptonaut: you can run it directly on ubuntu if you want, or you can run it from a live cd, whatever you prefer
• 916[06:30:58] <Scriptonaut> so I could just install a PXE server on there, then hit f12 on the desktop I'm trying to get debian on, hit network (I think I have to enable it in bios), and it will load it?
• 917[06:31:02] <alkisg> It does install dnsmasq temporarily, but it removes it afterwards, so no harm done even on the real installation
• 918[06:31:04] <idustyb> @Scriptonaut: If it's going to be a recycled process (Eg; you're going to do it over and over); I'd go PXE. If not; I'd swap the HDD and install on the laptop (a minimal system), then swap it to this new PC and go for it.
• 919[06:31:04] <idustyb> @Scriptonaut: Or find a USB :P
• 920[06:31:04] <idustyb> (Which I know; isn't a current capability)
• 921[06:31:04] <idustyb> @Scriptonaut: The laptop swappiing may not work though. It's just probably a quicker `oh.. that didn't work. PXE it is` realisation.
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• 923[06:31:25] <alkisg> Scriptonaut: exactly; yes, if it's a desktop you might need to "enable lan boot rom" first
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• 925[06:31:59] <Scriptonaut> ok ima try the pxe solution, thanks y'all
• 926[06:32:07] <idustyb> @Scriptonaut: Good luck :D
• 927[06:32:09] <alkisg> Scriptonaut: You can also install debian to a vm like virtualbox, and dump it directly on the laptop over the network, i.e. no minimal systems involved
• 928[06:32:18] <Scriptonaut> oh, I've actually done that before
• 929[06:32:25] <Scriptonaut> that will be my backup plan
• 930[06:32:37] <idustyb> @Scriptonaut: Blog it! Stream it!
• 931[06:32:39] <idustyb> hahaha
• 932[06:32:45] <alkisg> Ping me if you need help, I also have a one-line vnc support command :)
• 933[06:33:31] <annadane> debian buster release notes: "how to install debian via wavelengths from space satellites"
• 934[06:33:38] <alkisg> Hehe
• 935[06:33:47] <idustyb> @annadane: Nice! Lol
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• 937[06:34:16] <alkisg> In my schools I always put a grub entry: "netboot from the central remote office", so that they can netboot them and I can take control even when they cannot reach the recovery console
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• 940[06:37:00] <idustyb> @alkisg: Nice! Ugh! I really should set one up!
• 941[06:37:21] <alkisg> ipxe is really a swiss army knife there
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• 965[06:56:03] <Wolf20180328> Hi. Can I run my own DNS service in Debian?
• 966[06:56:49] <Wolf20180328> Like just take all the addresses from somewhere and paste them into /etc/hosts, I don't think is impossible. Once in a while I update them as addresses change, but I don't think I'd need to take care of it so much
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• 970[06:57:53] <idustyb> @Wolf20180328: What are you attempting to achieve?
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• 972[06:58:18] <idustyb> @Wolf20180328: Though, to answer your question; you most certainly can. bind, dnsmasq - etc.
• 973[06:58:46] <idustyb> @Wolf20180328: I use dnsmasq. I also have a 'pihole' that also uses dnsmasq.
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• 975[06:59:04] <x0x0_> what is a pihole
• 976[06:59:15] <annadane> adblocking program thingy
• 977[06:59:20] <annadane> well, not adblocking specifically
• 978[06:59:30] <annadane> i'm tired and don't feel like explaining :D
• 979[06:59:38] <Wolf20180328> idustyb someone was talking about privacytools.io and prism-break and when I realized that DNS is also a privacy concern, outside of paranoia, I could 1 use dnscrpyt and dnssec or 2 run my own service and I think it would be less of a pain
• 980[06:59:47] <x0x0_> yup, i got it
• 981[06:59:50] <idustyb> @x0x0_: It's a tool that was originally targeted for raspberry pi's, though can be run on almost any dnsmasq supported host; to manage DNS with the primary target of blocking things like advertisements :P
• 982[06:59:51] <Wolf20180328> idusyb but, is it easy?
• 983[07:00:02] <idustyb> @Wolf20180328: Pihole ;)
• 984[07:00:07] <annadane> yeah dns
• 985[07:00:09] <annadane> there you go
• 986[07:00:25] <idustyb> @Wolf20180328: I used to run the same, with dnsmasq, squid - etc etc. All sorts of scripts to keep things up to date.
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• 988[07:00:50] <x0x0_> idustyb: quite good explanation
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• 991[07:01:19] <idustyb> @Wolf20180328: PiHole is literally the 'bespoke' system I manually managed in it's own 'solution'. Can likely do everything you want.
• 992[07:01:20] <Wolf20180328> idustyb pi hole doesn't seem to help keeping own dns service
• 993[07:01:54] <idustyb> @Wolf20180328: Just internal resolution?
• 994[07:02:01] <idustyb> (IE; resolving hosts on a local domain?)
• 995[07:02:38] <Wolf20180328> idustyb yeah, I may also just download everything off somewhere and put it in /etc/hosts, updating once a week or so, I think it'd work IMHO
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• 997[07:02:55] <idustyb> PiHole allows you to specify which servers you want to use for external resolution. It supports local too. It's configuration of dnsmasq is primarily for caching, true. It does dnssec
• 998[07:03:04] <idustyb> @Wolf20180328: That may be an option. It's how I used to manage things ;)
• 999[07:03:08] <idustyb> Then I went squid! Because regex.
• 1000[07:03:14] <idustyb> (/etc/hosts doesn't support wildcards)
• 1001[07:03:25] <idustyb> So *.domain.tld won't work.
• 1002[07:03:35] <Wolf20180328> idustyb can you manage how to do? because I can't find anything decent looking up on the Internet
• 1003[07:03:50] <Wolf20180328> idustyb squid or whatever is fine as long as I can get it to work
• 1004[07:03:52] <idustyb> @Wolf20180328: I have to leave for now, sorry. I have a 1.5 hour commute home. Yay! Australia.
• 1005[07:03:56] <idustyb> I'll be back on later ;)
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• 1008[07:04:46] <idustyb> Good luck. But I highly recommend at least a glance at pihole ;)
• 1009[07:04:57] <idustyb> I'm pretty sure the pihole git page suggests alternatives, if you're not comfortable too.
• 1010[07:05:09] <idustyb> It also describes exactly my situation. 'Tired of doing this manually?' lol
• 1011[07:05:12] <Wolf20180328> idustyb I live in Austria, austria no kangaroos only kuhilinus Good luck for the long travel
• 1012[07:05:13] <idustyb> Thanks guys! Tschuss!
• 1013[07:05:18] <idustyb> hahaha thanks ;)
• 1014[07:05:57] <bites> .o/~
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• 1036[07:20:25] <mbnt> Greetings Debianites, my computer keeps generating an icedove profile such that it interferes with my launching of thunderbird each freakin' time. How do I get it to stop?
• 1037[07:21:08] <pingfloyd> did you try purging icedove and installing thunderbird through apt-get
• 1038[07:22:07] <mbnt> I did not even install icedove. it's a leftover file on me hard drive
• 1039[07:22:26] *** Quits: Guest17244 (~dsps@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 1040[07:22:41] <mbnt> Several installs ago
• 1041[07:22:56] *** Joins: shellclear (~shellclea@replaced-ip)
• 1042[07:23:22] <mbnt> It was never a thing and now suddenly it is, weird.
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• 1045[07:24:55] <Nihl> Hi there, I am using debian sid, and for some reason, I can't install jupyter on my system through the apt tool.
• 1046[07:25:01] <alkisg> mbnt: does it happen on new user accounts, or only on old ones? I.e. is it a system or a user setting?
• 1047[07:25:30] <annadane> !debian-next
• 1048[07:25:30] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on Freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
• 1049[07:25:44] <annadane> Nihl, when you get there,
• 1050[07:25:46] <annadane> !bat
• 1051[07:25:46] <dpkg> In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use replaced-url
• 1052[07:25:51] <mbnt> Oh hey, I can install icedove if I want. Forget it, I can just migrate.
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• 1054[07:26:08] <annadane> ,v jupyter
• 1055[07:26:08] <Nihl> ok, I will send now
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• 1057[07:26:09] <judd> Package: jupyter on amd64 -- buster: 4.4.0-2; sid: 4.4.0-2
• 1058[07:26:10] <mbnt> I prefer Icedove, I was using other distros that did not have icedove
• 1059[07:26:32] *** Joins: Tom-_ (~tomg@replaced-ip)
• 1060[07:26:37] <Nihl> sudo apt install jupyter
• 1061[07:26:38] <Nihl> Reading package lists... Done
• 1062[07:26:38] <Nihl> Building dependency tree
• 1063[07:26:38] <Nihl> Reading state information... Done
• 1064[07:26:38] <Nihl> Some packages could not be installed. This may mean that you have
• 1065[07:26:38] *** Nihl was kicked by debhelper (flood)
• 1066[07:26:40] <mbnt> I just hope thunderbird does not interfere now
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• 1069[07:26:57] <DHowett> to be fair, "use paste.debian.org" is the _last_ thing in the list ;P
• 1070[07:27:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1541
• 1071[07:27:13] <Nihl> I was kicked out of chatroom because I pasted too many lines
• 1072[07:27:15] <bites> mbnt: icedove is just a transitional package in debian now. if you install it it will pull thunderbird.
• 1073[07:27:16] <mbnt> It must be Debian's way of saying, "Use icedove, arsewipe!"
• 1074[07:27:27] <annadane> Nihl, as dpkg said, please join #debian-next on irc.oftc.net
• 1075[07:27:27] *** Quits: Wolf20180328 (~Wolf20180@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 1076[07:27:32] <annadane> #debian is for debian stable
• 1077[07:27:39] <annadane> also, use paste.debian.net for pasting
• 1078[07:27:56] <Nihl> ok, thank you for your info. I didn't know. sorry
• 1079[07:27:56] <mbnt> It's a user thing, not system
• 1080[07:28:21] *** Quits: wjtaylor___ (~wjtaylor@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 1081[07:28:26] <mbnt> So what do you suggest I do, use icedove or thunderbird?
• 1082[07:28:30] <mbnt> Or something else?
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• 1084[07:29:01] <bites> does it matter? they are functionally identical.
• 1085[07:29:20] <bites> icedove is not in the official repos anymore.
• 1086[07:29:20] <mbnt> I just don't want something blocking my launch of my email client
• 1087[07:29:24] <mbnt> It is annoying
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• 1091[07:30:11] <mbnt> I get this annoying rude message from debian, 'figure it out yourself'
• 1092[07:30:26] *** Quits: aviavi (59d46ba8@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 1093[07:30:47] <idustyb> @mbnt: From where?
• 1094[07:31:01] *** Quits: patterson (~patterson@replaced-ip) ()
• 1095[07:31:07] <bites> try removing the icedove package.
• 1096[07:31:14] <mbnt> idustyb, When I try to launch thunderbird, want me to copy and paste it?
• 1097[07:31:25] <mbnt> on pastebin
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• 1100[07:33:46] <mbnt> Yea, see, I purged icedove and I STILL get the freakin' message replaced-url
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• 1103[07:34:09] <mbnt> It's debian's way of saying to me, 'Install Gentoo, arsewipe!'
• 1104[07:34:32] <idustyb> @mbnt: Surely; this is not the debian side of the package?
• 1105[07:34:40] <annadane> that's a dumb message
• 1106[07:34:47] <annadane> maintainer being cheeky
• 1107[07:35:32] <mbnt> cheeky monkey
• 1108[07:35:36] <idustyb> Surely not!?
• 1109[07:36:05] <bites> so do what they say. move your .thunderbird directory to .thunderbird_old and restart thunderbird.
• 1110[07:36:29] <mbnt> Oh, but I need my profiles
• 1111[07:36:52] <bites> either remove the thunderbird or the icedove directory.
• 1112[07:36:54] <mbnt> Let me try icedove then
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• 1114[07:37:06] <mbnt> I did remove icedove, many times
• 1115[07:37:08] <bites> or rename them instead of removing
• 1116[07:37:11] <mbnt> I deleted that profile
• 1117[07:37:21] <mbnt> And it comes back like the cat that came back
• 1118[07:37:27] <mbnt> It just couldn't stay away
• 1119[07:37:35] <bites> weird
• 1120[07:37:37] *** Quits: dionysus69 (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
• 1121[07:37:52] <mbnt> amen
• 1122[07:38:02] <annadane> or just move the profile rather than delete it
• 1123[07:38:15] <mbnt> I did that too!
• 1124[07:38:22] <mbnt> STILL came back. Meow.
• 1125[07:38:50] <idustyb> So wait. Config purged (besides obviously backing up your .icedove old profiles) right?
• 1126[07:38:54] <idustyb> Fresh install?
• 1127[07:39:16] <mbnt> yep
• 1128[07:39:19] <mbnt> fresh
• 1129[07:39:46] <mbnt> okay, i'll try icedove
• 1130[07:39:59] <Wolf20180328> I've got kicked off freenode for a while (VPN blacklisted IP)
• 1131[07:40:08] *** Joins: ShapeShifter499 (~ShapeShif@replaced-ip)
• 1132[07:40:28] <idustyb> @Wolf20180328: What were you doing :P ?
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• 1136[07:42:06] <idustyb> @mbnt: Maybe ice dove? Export again :P Back into Thunderbird? lol
• 1137[07:42:13] <idustyb> I must admit; I vaguely remember migration issues also.
• 1138[07:42:33] <idustyb> I use IMAP, so they were more a `Oh! That's inconvenient. -recreate profile-`
• 1139[07:42:35] <bites> icedove is the same package.
• 1140[07:42:46] <bites> just adds a desktop file and a symlink to thunderbird
• 1141[07:43:31] <mbnt> Well, it is an extra step to launch thunderbird that I have to live with
• 1142[07:43:43] <idustyb> @bites: Then; why would there be a migration process? Not arguing, genuinely curious.
• 1143[07:43:49] <mbnt> I tried to launch icedove and got the same message
• 1144[07:43:53] <idustyb> I definitely remember having issues with it.
• 1145[07:44:05] <bites> idustyb: for things that still depend on the icedove package. just legacy.
• 1146[07:44:30] <idustyb> @bites: Ha! Weird.
• 1147[07:44:48] <bites> DEs and such
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• 1150[07:46:17] <idustyb> @bites: Hrm! Maybe I'm dreaming. If I remember right; it happened twice.
• 1151[07:46:31] <idustyb> Because they used to roll thunderbird, then went icedove for branding, then back thunderbird?
• 1152[07:46:34] <Wolf20180328> idustyb It's just freenode banning my VPN IP and asking me to use SASL or something, it took me 10 minutes to figure out what the heck SASL is
• 1153[07:46:37] *** Joins: Haohmaru (~Haohmaru@replaced-ip)
• 1154[07:46:38] <idustyb> (branding and other rasons)
• 1155[07:47:20] <mbnt> What's an easy client to migrate to?
• 1156[07:47:38] <Wolf20180328> idustyb any easy way to get a DNS server and use both DNS-CRYPT (in order to keep privacy) and DNS-SEC (in order to prevent spoofing when my dns requests travel far away to an unknown server)?
• 1157[07:47:38] <mbnt> If they can't work their issues out, I'll go elsewhere
• 1158[07:47:41] <idustyb> @mbnt: I.. use thunderbird :( Even in KDE (Recent testing)
• 1159[07:47:59] <bites> idustyb: oh, i think i misunderstood your question. the "migration" should just create a symlink from .thunderbird to .icedove and change some mime application defaults.
• 1160[07:48:22] <mbnt> No, i meant live icedove/thunderbird and go elsewhere
• 1161[07:48:27] <mbnt> leave
• 1162[07:48:34] <idustyb> @bites: Hmm! Maybe.
• 1163[07:48:45] <idustyb> @mbnt: What desktop environment are you running?
• 1164[07:48:56] <mbnt> I switch it up
• 1165[07:49:06] <Wolf20180328> purge and rm -r .mozilla ?
• 1166[07:49:08] <mbnt> I keep changing my mind
• 1167[07:49:13] *** Joins: dczheng (~dczheng@replaced-ip)
• 1168[07:49:40] <idustyb> @mbnt: I do know kmail is pretty extensive. I had to use it once to recover some legacy data from a like.. windows 95 box. And it was flawless opening this old mail archive.
• 1169[07:49:47] <bites> .mozilla is not used here.
• 1170[07:49:49] <idustyb> So surely a simple migration from recent technologies would be okay?
• 1171[07:50:09] <idustyb> (Though I know these are different scenarios - and I do not use kmail :()
• 1172[07:50:36] *** Quits: bcx (~user@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving.)
• 1173[07:50:40] <idustyb> Hang on. I might be exaggerating. Windows XP!
• 1174[07:50:41] <annadane> i've heard endless complaints about kmail, so, buyer beware
• 1175[07:50:50] <idustyb> It was like... Outlook v1 hahaha.
• 1176[07:51:00] <idustyb> @mbnt: Ah! There you go!
• 1177[07:51:20] <annadane> man, outlook express was the shit.
• 1178[07:51:24] <annadane> it was so good.
• 1179[07:51:36] <idustyb> @annadane: You're dead to me.
• 1180[07:51:51] <annadane> :(
• 1181[07:52:00] <idustyb> Not even sure i can say `jk`...
• 1182[07:52:03] <idustyb> lol :P
• 1183[07:52:07] <DHowett> i've not heard anybody talk about outlook express in rather a long time.. dang
• 1184[07:52:24] <annadane> i greatly enjoyed toying with/hacking microsoft things back in the day
• 1185[07:52:28] <idustyb> I'm pretty sure it's a curse word.
• 1186[07:52:34] <idustyb> Like.. he who shall not be named.
• 1187[07:52:40] <mbnt> If my testicles were big enough, I would use mutt
• 1188[07:52:43] <DHowett> annadane: keep doing it! Debian's on WSL now! :o
• 1189[07:52:50] <annadane> THAT is a curse word.
• 1190[07:53:13] <idustyb> @mbnt: I was going to suggest something like that...
• 1191[07:53:26] <mbnt> Yeah, I need to grow a pair
• 1192[07:53:31] <DHowett> annadane: wsl, or mutt? i could see that going either way
• 1193[07:53:43] *** Quits: Cthu (Cthu@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 1194[07:53:47] <idustyb> @mbnt: You know you want to setup one of those web-frontend ones?
• 1195[07:53:49] <idustyb> horde!?
• 1196[07:54:00] <annadane> wsl. :P
• 1197[07:54:04] <idustyb> What could possibly go wrong.
• 1198[07:54:11] <Wolf20180328> What about claws or sylpheed
• 1199[07:54:27] <DHowett> aw :(
• 1200[07:54:29] <mbnt> or evolution : - p
• 1201[07:54:34] <idustyb> You know what. Do it like a pro.
• 1202[07:54:38] <idustyb> @mbnt: raw telnet that.
• 1203[07:54:53] <idustyb> Surely teh protocol isn't that bad.
• 1204[07:54:57] <idustyb> Oh wait. Profiles.
• 1205[07:55:07] <mbnt> emacs as an email client, and an OS, get all Stallman on that
• 1206[07:55:10] <idustyb> Actually profiles is the main reason I suggest kmail. Perhaps export everything you need and go.
• 1207[07:55:11] *** Quits: emucla (~user@replaced-ip) (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
• 1208[07:55:22] <bites> when are we, the 80s? ^^
• 1209[07:55:27] <idustyb> @mbnt: even better! Write a new javascript framework / library.
• 1210[07:55:27] <Wolf20180328> I've to say I had a lot of problems with Mozilla stuff over the recent years, but claws never gave me one single problem (once I learned how the heck it worked)
• 1211[07:55:46] <mbnt> Screw that, do it in C
• 1212[07:55:54] <idustyb> @mbnt: machine!
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• 1214[07:56:02] <idustyb> assembly gg
• 1215[07:56:03] <mbnt> binary email client
• 1216[07:56:07] <idustyb> lol
• 1217[07:56:35] *** Quits: krytarik (~krytarik@replaced-ip) (Quit: Po dilet)
• 1218[07:56:47] <idustyb> @Wolf20180328: I've.. had similar experiences. Though Thunderbird is what I use to date.. again; imap. It doesn't really matter what I use. And my service also has an web frontend so.
• 1219[07:57:00] <idustyb> (Which lets me pick weasel, horde... and something else i always forget)
• 1220[07:57:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1534
• 1221[07:57:29] <idustyb> Wait.. Roundcube. Squirrel, and horde.
• 1222[07:57:32] <idustyb> Sorry.
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• 1225[07:58:16] <idustyb> @mbnt: Long story short; you can't abandon Debian. This chat is proof of that alone. Community is awesome.
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• 1227[07:58:24] <Wolf20180328> d
• 1228[07:59:05] <mbnt> idustyb, I prefer the condescending smirks of Slackware
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• 1230[07:59:29] <idustyb> Sounds exciting :P
• 1231[07:59:36] <mbnt> bwahahah
• 1232[07:59:52] <mbnt> Gentoo, "RTFM!!" to any question
• 1233[07:59:59] <Wolf20180328> idustyb I feel like mozilla is becoming worse and worse I hate do admit that but it's easy to have CPU >90% and RAM full while chromium use 15% and 10%.... the browser I'm not using the email client anymore so I can't speak of that I'm pretty sure we'll have soon another company treating Mozilla like Mozilla treated Netscape
• 1234[08:00:08] <idustyb> @mbnt: lol
• 1235[08:00:27] <idustyb> @mbnt: Sounds like my experience and the early Android project.
• 1236[08:00:31] <idustyb> @mbnt: Except there was no documentation.
• 1237[08:00:49] <mbnt> Gentoo does have a good manual
• 1238[08:01:17] <idustyb> @Wolf20180328: Similar experiences. And their recent Firefox privacy/security problem (which I forget...) was unforgivable.
• 1239[08:01:24] <idustyb> ... i still use it :(
• 1240[08:02:01] <idustyb> @mbnt: Interesting! Nah I can't move on from Debian. I really appreciate their philosophy, and the effort the developers and maintainers (Except Thunderbird?) put in is just.. amazing.
• 1241[08:02:11] <Wolf20180328> I'm using Firefox-ESR and will switch to Pale moon when web extension time will come, then I'm going to use whatever will replace Mozilla (idk, Brave maybe or something else)
• 1242[08:02:25] <mbnt> All distros have merits
• 1243[08:02:56] <idustyb> (Ps; I may drop in and out now. Fully regional. So if I stop responding it's not '</3')
• 1244[08:03:15] <mbnt> But Fedora has the distinction of being run on Linus Torvaldss machine
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• 1246[08:04:02] <idustyb> @Wolf20180328: I'm using Chromium, and Firefox. Firefox 59 with it's tab containers is nice. Chromium for some of my web dev output.
• 1247[08:04:21] <idustyb> @mbnt: Well; Linus did try Debian first :P He just didn't like the installer, and never tried again.
• 1248[08:04:28] <annadane> i sort of trust debian to filter out mozilla telemetry/spying stuff
• 1249[08:04:40] <annadane> though i don't know because it should be fairly close to upstream
• 1250[08:04:54] <idustyb> @mbnt: I actually find the Debian (non graphical) installer much better than other distro's I've used. So yeah.
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• 1252[08:05:02] <annadane> not that i have a strong stance on mozilla's practices, i haven't researched it
• 1253[08:05:15] <mbnt> annadane, non spying? You want Trisquel
• 1254[08:05:22] <Wolf20180328> I'm installing dnscrypt and dnssec and trying a OpenNIC server I'm using Arch wiki for now
• 1255[08:05:29] <idustyb> Oh; I also am aware he's not a fan of the Debian way of Kernel management.
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• 1257[08:05:30] <idustyb> @annadane: Jump on the maintainers list :P
• 1258[08:05:30] <mbnt> Stallman uses that
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• 1260[08:06:12] <idustyb> @Wolf20180328: Nice!
• 1261[08:06:31] <idustyb> @Wolf20180328: The biggest issue I had with that was the manual management of pulling the 'privacy' lists for Dnsmasq.
• 1262[08:07:06] <idustyb> @Wolf20180328: Or when I then switched to Squid for management of those domains... And setup a react website as the destination for the redirects of 'bad domains', with a pretty frontend.
• 1263[08:07:31] <idustyb> @Wolf20180328: Not saying that to detur, just my experience. It's still most definitely worth while!
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• 1265[08:09:05] <Wolf20180328> idustyb also, when the heck did this pi hole come out? I never heard of it before today I guess it's pretty new stuff, I cannot even find it on Wikis
• 1266[08:09:18] <idustyb> @Wolf: what is a 'kuhilinus'.
• 1267[08:09:21] <idustyb> I googled it. No love.
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• 1269[08:10:10] <idustyb> @Wolf20180328: It's a typical 'today' solution of tools. Someone got sick the manual input of what you are trying to achieve, and wrote a solution for it :P. It's not really it's own 'thing'.
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• 1272[08:11:30] <idustyb> **@Wolf20180328: what is a 'kuhilinus'.
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• 1274[08:12:26] <mbnt> Torvalds on Kahlua?
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• 1286[08:14:56] <Wolf20180328> I hate Google they removed View Image button I solved using right click + view image, and now they make me viewing the crappy Google thumbnail with data64 stuff
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• 1289[08:15:04] <Wolf20180328> idustyb replaced-url
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• 1291[08:15:18] <Wolf20180328> kuhilimus replaced-url
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• 1294[08:16:13] <idustyb> It's just a cow!?
• 1295[08:16:55] <idustyb> (Second url = facebook fail: "Bad URL date param")
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• 1299[08:17:50] <idustyb> Can't believe I cliked facebook links. The thing I do for you, @Wolf20180328!
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• 1308[08:22:57] <Wolf20180328> idustyb lol delete recent cookies and cache?
• 1309[08:23:27] <Wolf20180328> idustyb it's a cow but it's funny cause I'm from Italy and I know up there is only cows like that
• 1310[08:23:43] <Wolf20180328> so it says no kangaroos, only cows here
• 1311[08:24:03] <idustyb> @Wolf20180328: lol
• 1312[08:25:00] <Wolf20180328> idustyb when I was little I was with a bunch of friends and we were attacked by cows on a mountain, we had to run pretty fast, no milk too
• 1313[08:25:16] <Wolf20180328> idustyb someone was trying to get too close, I guess
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• 1315[08:25:55] <idustyb> @Wolf20180328: Sure you weren't `cow tipping`?
• 1316[08:25:55] <idustyb> Disclaimer: I do not endource any form of animal cruelty, though that makes it sound worse than it really is.
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• 1321[08:27:11] <Wolf20180328> idustyb no I was just joking regarding the milk, when I realized the gaf I made, someone was just trying to caress them We were like 40 so idk
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• 1324[08:28:03] <idustyb> @Wolf20180328: lol
• 1325[08:28:17] <idustyb> @Wolf20180328: I was only disclaimer :P You need not worry!
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• 1327[08:28:24] <Wolf20180328> idustyb but I see on the TV kangaroos are pretty bad boys too kind of Rocky
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• 1333[08:29:48] <idustyb> @Wolf20180328: Oh yeah! You seen the one of the kangaroo choking out another kangaroo!? Those things are rough!
• 1334[08:30:47] <idustyb> Man. How do I use these KDE activities.
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• 1342[08:33:04] <Wolf20180328> you install Gnome
• 1343[08:33:44] <Wolf20180328> cause it's not the Kool Desktop Environment but the Cool, they're ignorant those guys
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• 1345[08:34:23] <idustyb> @Wolf20180328: I ran Mate until thismorning. KDE has been getting a lot of praise recently, and I thought I'd check it out.
• 1346[08:34:40] <idustyb> @Wolf20180328: It's.. a pretty awesome experience so far. I've had to customise a lot though.
• 1347[08:34:47] <Wolf20180328> idustyb out of curiosity, have you ever seen Xfce?
• 1348[08:35:23] <idustyb> @Wolf20180328: Yeah. Can't remember why I moved away from it. I probably didn't give it a fair go :(
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• 1354[08:38:02] <Wolf20180328> idustyb I can tell you, you should, it's pretty awesome once you set it up Plus, it's so much more light than mainstraming Gnome3 and KDE
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• 1358[08:40:41] <Wolf20180328> idustyb I'm discussing on the openvpn channel, and I just realize, perhaps all the traffic when you use a VPN is encrypted, also the DNS queries, what do you think?
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• 1450[09:15:00] <s10gopal> HDMI not working , xrandr output HDMI1 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis)
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• 1452[09:15:38] <pragomer> anybody an idea how I can use teamviewer13 (the native linux one) on hidpi display? in older versions that based on wine I could set dpi via "teamviewer winecfg"
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• 1466[09:19:35] <lowin> Hello. I have a problem with network configuration. I have the following lines in my /etc/network/interfaces file: replaced-url
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• 1469[09:20:37] <lowin> As of right now, the interface is assigned 2 ipv4 but dhcpcd enforces the use of dhcp assigned ipv4 address in routing
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• 1549[10:17:45] <webchat254> Hi, I am on Debian 9 and installed virtualbox 5,2 and I get this error 'Either there is no module available for the current kernel (2.6.32-042stab123.9) or it failed to load.'
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• 1560[10:23:33] <rtp2342> 2.6.32 was the kernel on Debian 6
• 1561[10:24:06] <at0m> right, debian 9, and kernel 2.6?
• 1562[10:24:12] <at0m> ,v linux-image-amd64
• 1563[10:24:13] <judd> Package: linux-image-amd64 on amd64 -- wheezy: 3.2+46; wheezy-security: 3.2+46+deb7u1; wheezy-backports: 3.16+63~bpo70+1; jessie: 3.16+63; jessie-security: 3.16+63+deb8u1; jessie-backports: 4.9+80+deb9u2~bpo8+2; stretch: 4.9+80+deb9u4; stretch-security: 4.9+80+deb9u4; stretch-backports: 4.14+89~bpo9+1; buster: 4.15+91; sid: 4.15+91
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• 1584[10:36:21] <rtp2342> jelly: FYI: temporary "fix" for my qemu-kvm 32 bit issue since vmlinuz-4.9.0-6-686: add kernel parameter "spectre_v2=off".
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• 1588[10:36:37] <jelly> heh
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• 1591[10:37:04] <rtp2342> jelly: so you were right, spectre mitigation broke it
• 1592[10:37:09] <jelly> "please file a bug report"
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• 1594[10:37:13] <rtp2342> heh
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• 1597[10:39:09] <Wolf20180328> Can someone explain me how to get dnscrypt to work?
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• 1599[10:39:57] <Wolf20180328> I think the developer is an idiot cause all the documentation Online describe different procedures, the manual tell about a configuration example file that doesn't exist it's incredible Stuff like this shouldn't be packaged on Debian, it sounds like alpha software
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• 1602[10:40:10] <Wolf20180328> I'm speaking about dnscrypt-proxy
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• 1618[10:48:44] <webchat254> on my debian 9 system 'This system is currently not set up to build kernel modules. Please install the Linux kernel "header" files matching the current kernel'
• 1619[10:49:01] <webchat254> how do i address this?
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• 1628[10:49:52] <BCMM> webchat254: `apt install linux-headers-$(uname -r)` should do it
• 1629[10:49:57] <at0m> webchat254: i suggest upgrading your kernel to a current one for your debian version. then install linux-headers-amd64
• 1630[10:50:37] <at0m> BCMM: webchat254 says the debian 9 install uses kernel 2.6. which was debian *6*
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• 1636[10:50:55] <BCMM> oh wait what?
• 1637[10:50:57] <at0m> not sure headers for 2.6 are still around
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• 1639[10:51:10] <BCMM> yeah basically don't run kernel 2.6
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• 1641[10:51:18] <thms> I am trying to get Debian Squeeze archive repos to work... but I can't.. any idea where I can find sources.list with non-expired keys ?
• 1642[10:51:27] <BCMM> webchat254: what sort of machine are you using? is it just a regular desktop PC or is it something exotic/embedded?
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• 1646[10:53:14] <BCMM> at0m: i mean, kernel 2.6 isn't around any more either, on anything newer than wheezy
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• 1648[10:53:37] <BCMM> at0m: so i'm thinking non-debian kernel, somehow?
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• 1653[10:58:33] <Wolf20180328> pihole dnssec dnscrypt anyone know about this stuff?
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• 1676[11:08:31] <rtp2342> webchat254: are you on a native debian 9 system or already in a virtualized environment? then virtualbox wouldn't run anyway...
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• 1680[11:10:15] <Wolf20180328> Help me please a package called dnscrypt-proxy installed a lot of crap and made symlinks everywhere
• 1681[11:10:18] <Wolf20180328> How can I get rid of it?
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• 1692[11:14:41] <Wolf20180328> ok it seems it was unbound package doing the mess, purging it and autoremoving fixed everything
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• 1740[11:35:30] <alioui_> hi all, i have problem installing some package ??
• 1741[11:35:42] <alioui_> replaced-url
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• 1746[11:37:30] <alioui_> i can't install hunspell-fr-comprehensive with hunspell-fr-classical and hunspell-fr-modern etc
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• 1748[11:37:50] <alioui_> is there a reason for that ??
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• 1761[11:42:38] <satanist> because they install files on the same path
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• 1765[11:45:04] <alioui_> apt-cache pkgnames hunspell | xarg apt-get install -y <== this is the command i use
• 1766[11:45:32] <alioui_> how can i changed to solve the problem
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• 1769[11:46:57] <satanist> choose one of the packages which have a conflict, you don't need all
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• 1777[11:52:43] <lihizu> hey everybody!
• 1778[11:52:53] <mateothegreat> hai2u2
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• 1781[11:54:32] <alioui_> hai2u3
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• 1786[11:57:27] <lihizu> what wm do u use?
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• 1794[12:02:17] <hassoon[work]> the almighty i3 here
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• 1802[12:03:53] <mateothegreat> tmux!
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• 1804[12:04:22] <lihizu> in tty?
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• 1806[12:06:41] <hassoon[work]> what ?
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• 1808[12:06:52] <lihizu> tmux
• 1809[12:07:23] <lihizu> I asked what wm do you use?
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• 1811[12:07:53] <hassoon[work]> what does that have to do with tty and tmux ?
• 1812[12:08:00] <hassoon[work]> wm is window manager
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• 1816[12:08:18] <hassoon[work]> or are you talking about terminal multiplexers ?
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• 1818[12:08:30] <lihizu> no
• 1819[12:08:32] <lihizu> about wm
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• 1822[12:09:08] <lihizu> meteothegreat didn't understand
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• 1825[12:09:37] <lihizu> hassoon[work]: what wm do you use? And why
• 1826[12:09:48] <lihizu> I just can't choose
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• 1828[12:10:27] <lihizu> I prefer xfce and awesome wm
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• 1830[12:10:49] <arora> so use both
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• 1836[12:14:02] <lihizu> I like awesome becose with it I have control of my windows. But i hate awesome's panels
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• 1838[12:14:31] <hassoon[work]> lihizu: i just told you, the i3
• 1839[12:14:36] <hassoon[work]> aka i3wm
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• 1841[12:15:37] <lihizu> Ok. I'll try. thx!
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• 1845[12:16:50] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
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• 1852[12:20:29] <Wizard> hassoon[work]: bspwm ftw omg
• 1853[12:20:30] <Wizard> :D
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• 1859[12:23:03] <jerdef82> Anyone else with 1070GTX on a laptop who got the Nvidia driver working?
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• 1886[12:33:21] <shtrb|laptop> What repositories ship Debian Gnu/Windows ? ( replaced-url
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• 1896[12:36:19] <shtrb|laptop> or replaced-url
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• 1902[12:40:06] <jerdef82> I take it nobody here is using a 1070GTX graphics card on a laptop with Debian Stretch.
• 1903[12:40:38] <shtrb|laptop> Wait , there are issues with that ?
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• 1906[12:41:04] <shtrb|laptop> jerdef82, Is that a ROG laptop ?
• 1907[12:41:44] <jerdef82> It's a Tuxedo laptop (basically a Clevo laptop) with UEFI.
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• 1909[12:42:31] <shtrb|laptop> 64GiB that is something I could play with :) , do you have a specific question ?
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• 1911[12:42:46] <shtrb|laptop> *64 GiB of ram
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• 1921[12:46:48] <jerdef82> The problem is I don't even know where to start.
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• 1923[12:47:09] <jerdef82> When I look at the Nvidia driver it says: "You do not appear to be using NVIDIA X driver. Please edit your X configuration file (just run nvidia-xconfig as root), and restart the X server".
• 1924[12:47:25] <Peeenis> linux are so dumb
• 1925[12:48:45] <shtrb|laptop> illusory superiority ?
• 1926[12:48:45] <jerdef82> The issue is Debian strongly discourages the use of nvidia-xconfig. When I do it doesn't boot my system anymore, so I have to run the recovery mode and rename xorg.conf.bak for the system to boot again.
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• 1936[12:53:19] <BluesKaj> jerdef82, first of all, make sure you have dkms installed then research your nvidia card driver number on the nvidia website, then look for that driver in the debian sites listing the driver and dependencies required. It's a pita but it seems that's only method to build the driver , unless you stick with nouveau
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• 1941[12:55:33] <jerdef82> It says dkms is installed when I run "dpkg-query -l | grep -i dkms". Both "dkms" and "nvidia-kernel-dkms", actually.
• 1942[12:57:16] <jerdef82> Man, I can't wait for AMD-based laptops to finally see the light in Europe! At least I won't have to stick with binary blobs.
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• 1944[12:58:09] <shtrb|laptop> jerdef82, How did you acquire the installer ? (download from nvidia site ? hav you installed the nvidia-driver package ?
• 1945[12:58:22] <BluesKaj> then find the correct driver number for your gpu and proceed reserching the depenencies etc, jer
• 1946[12:58:30] <BluesKaj> jerdef82,^
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• 1954[12:59:49] <shtrb|laptop> check if your device is listed in replaced-url
• 1955[12:59:51] <jerdef82> I basically followed the instructions on the Debian wiki.
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• 1958[13:01:26] <jerdef82> Everything worked fine until I reboot and then go to the "Nvidia X Server Settings" where it complains about "You do not appear to be using NVIDIA X driver. Please edit your X configuration file (just run nvidia-xconfig as root), and restart the X server."
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• 1961[13:02:12] <jerdef82> Using nvidia-xconfig (which creates the xorg.conf) only gives me a black screen when rebooting.
• 1962[13:02:35] <babilen> jerdef82: My gut feeling is that you have an Optimus GPU. You'd have to look into "bumblebee" for that
• 1963[13:02:38] <jerdef82> The thing is, Debian Stretch no longer needs a xorg.conf file.
• 1964[13:02:49] <babilen> And no .. please don't use nvidia-xconfig
• 1965[13:02:51] <jerdef82> Bumblebee is already installed as well.
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• 1967[13:03:15] <jerdef82> I'm not using it either.
• 1968[13:03:26] <jerdef82> Debian strongly discourages its use,so I'm not.
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• 1971[13:03:39] <babilen> How so?
• 1972[13:03:53] <jerdef82> Not using nvidia-xconfig (babilen)
• 1973[13:04:06] <babilen> What does "lspci -nn | grep '\''[030[02]\]" give you?
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• 1980[13:06:04] <babilen> Wouldn't that setup essentially allow you to use the nvidia gpu for selected workloads?
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• 1983[13:06:27] <babilen> (actively avoided buying any optimus hardware, so I lack experience with that setup)
• 1984[13:06:45] <babilen> My understanding is also that you don't use nvidia-kernel-dkms
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• 1988[13:08:14] <shtrb|laptop> bumblebee is no longer needed for newer versions
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• 1991[13:08:36] <jerdef82> It lists all the PCI devices and, as expected, I can see the Nvidia card.
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• 1994[13:09:24] <babilen> shtrb|laptop: Ah, how is the horror that's optimus dealt with now?
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• 1998[13:10:38] <shtrb|laptop> I have setup it once some time ago with help from I think #xorg , and stopped using it :)
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• 2000[13:10:50] <jerdef82> "01:00.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: NVIDIA Corporation GP104M [GeForce GTX 1070] [10de:1be1] (rev a1)" is the output, by the way.
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• 2003[13:11:04] <babilen> So you do have optimus
• 2004[13:11:08] <babilen> Does optirun work?
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• 2008[13:12:08] <bezaban> people tend to just disable the hybrid bits and run either pure intel or nvidia
• 2009[13:12:40] <babilen> Isn't that impossible in certain hardware configurations?
• 2010[13:12:44] <bezaban> in my experience, but I might have lazy coworkers.
• 2011[13:12:55] <bezaban> it might be, I do nvidia only, but docked most of the time anyway
• 2012[13:12:56] <jerdef82> It's working but complaining about a bunch of error messages.
• 2013[13:13:01] <babilen> But then .. I haven't touched optimus and do not intend to ever burden myself with it
• 2014[13:13:56] <jerdef82> I got all the info from this page: replaced-url
• 2015[13:13:58] <babilen> My understanding was that unless the hardware supports it, you cannot selectively disable one or the other as the outputs might just be connected to one or the other.
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• 2017[13:14:06] <babilen> But then, this is probably years old knowledge
• 2018[13:14:10] <jerdef82> But even then it's not working.
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• 2020[13:14:29] <bezaban> babilen: on recent lenovo there is a bios option for it, don't know across the board
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• 2022[13:15:14] <bezaban> one of my colleagues was having a lot of trouble though, and he's a pretty senior admin
• 2023[13:15:15] <shtrb|laptop> debian wiki should at least have replaced-url
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• 2025[13:15:33] <bezaban> so yes, avoid it if you can
• 2026[13:15:57] <hicks_> <jerdef82> Everything worked fine until I reboot and then go to the "Nvidia X Server Settings" where it complains about "You do not appear to be using NVIDIA X driver. Please edit your X configuration file (just run nvidia-xconfig as root), and restart the X server."
• 2027[13:16:00] <babilen> bezaban: They might have suitable hardware. A look in the BIOS is probably worth it.
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• 2029[13:16:13] <hicks_> Did you run optirun config-util-name?
• 2030[13:16:15] *** Quits: qba73 (~qba73@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2031[13:16:17] <bezaban> yeah, I think he was trying to rhel on it too
• 2032[13:16:33] <hicks_> as the nvidia config tool won't pick up anything when you're running on intel, so needs launching via optirun
• 2033[13:16:35] <babilen> Also: error messages are great as it gives us something to work with
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• 2035[13:16:48] <babilen> So: What does happen if you use optirun?
• 2036[13:16:48] <hicks_> and it needs a few extra options passing I believe
• 2037[13:17:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1586
• 2038[13:17:19] <hicks_> Try optirun nvidia-settings -c :8
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• 2041[13:17:47] <hicks_> last param may need tweaking depending on which display it's running
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• 2045[13:19:15] <jerdef82> It complains the daemon has not been started when I run "optirun nvidia-settings -c :8".
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• 2047[13:19:36] <jerdef82> The Bumblebee daemon, I mean.
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• 2050[13:19:55] <hicks_> can you paste the exact error? Someone might recognise it.
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• 2053[13:20:31] <babilen> → replaced-url
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• 2057[13:22:37] <jerdef82> [ 2977.234619] [ERROR]The Bumblebee daemon has not been started yet or the socket path /var/run/bumblebee.socket was incorrect.
• 2058[13:22:37] <jerdef82> [ 2977.234664] [ERROR]Could not connect to bumblebee daemon - is it running?
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• 2063[13:23:31] <jerdef82> That's the whole output after I run "optirun nvidia-settings -c :8"
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• 2066[13:25:20] <shtrb|laptop> Do you really need the close source solution ?
• 2067[13:26:15] <jerdef82> Yeah, I do. Running a lot of GPU-extensive applications like video editing.
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• 2070[13:26:42] <jerdef82> Besides it beats the point of buying an expensive Nvidia card that you don't use. :-/
• 2071[13:27:22] <hassoon[work]> i don't think the closed-source driver is (far ?) ahead of the common open source one
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• 2076[13:28:33] <jerdef82> If it's already a mess with Debian, what is it gonna be when I try gentoo. Jeez...
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• 2080[13:29:41] <Wizard> jerdef82: replaced-url
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• 2084[13:31:03] <jerdef82> What am I looking at, Wizard? O_o :-D
• 2085[13:31:18] <shtrb|laptop> jerdef82, If my google-foo skills are not too bad the only thing that is MUCH better with optimus is the power managment so if you are in office you might just use nuveno
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• 2088[13:32:07] <jerdef82> shtrb|laptop: Yeah but nouveau is not an option, like I said.
• 2089[13:33:20] <jerdef82> I'm running very CPU and GPU-extensive apps.
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• 2092[13:33:43] <shtrb|laptop> And are that does not work on foss driver ?
• 2093[13:33:53] <arha> this will sound weird but, is there an easy way to read the whole /sys fs, assuming that unreadable 'files' are ignored?
• 2094[13:33:55] <shtrb|laptop> In any case , you can systemctl start name.service
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• 2096[13:34:08] <shtrb|laptop> arha, define "read"
• 2097[13:34:22] <arha> say I'm looking for a mac
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• 2100[13:34:34] <arha> but I don't know the path under it's in
• 2101[13:34:41] <jerdef82> Kinda feel stupid for buying such an expensive for that result, to be honest. But, hey, I'll figure it out. (Eventually.)
• 2102[13:34:49] <jerdef82> expensive laptop*
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• 2104[13:35:35] <shtrb|laptop> jerdef82, I'm actually on the way to move to a ROG - so please share anything other than your issue with nvidia install
• 2105[13:35:43] <arha> so i'll be putting in the mac, and it would go through the whole fs, without breaking or halting, and eventually return /sys/class/net/eth0/address
• 2106[13:35:56] <shtrb|laptop> jerdef82, ROG is less powerfull that what you have and cost less than a third
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• 2112[13:36:37] <shtrb|laptop> arha, you could use grep for that (but I have no idea if there are some special interfaces there that could be affected by reading their content)
• 2113[13:36:39] <arha> i'm actually trying to find if there are any strings that could identify some soc platforms, like the orange pi and neo pi; but it seems i can't just find * -type f | xargs cat
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• 2115[13:36:53] <jerdef82> I also had huge issues with Wifi (iwlwifi) and WPA2 but it's been solved in the meantime.
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• 2117[13:36:59] <arha> shtrb|laptop: well yeah, it keeps locking while reading. hm.
• 2118[13:37:04] <Wizard> jerdef82: An old webpage rating gentoo users. While gentoo was still relevant.
• 2119[13:37:11] <Wizard> Arch made it quite obsolete, btw.
• 2120[13:37:19] <shtrb|laptop> the iwlwifi is crazy even with less expensive laptops , btw
• 2121[13:37:23] <arha> jerdef82, shtrb|laptop: if you're in thte laptop business
• 2122[13:37:26] <arha> i got myself a clevo
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• 2125[13:37:44] <jerdef82> Arch isn't nearly as configurable as Gentoo.
• 2126[13:37:51] <shtrb|laptop> looking on the prices , I don't think I can afford such a laptop (over 5 grand)
• 2127[13:37:51] <jerdef82> arha: it's a Clevo laptop.
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• 2129[13:37:54] <arha> pretty neat compared to a ROG, rather modular (you can swap out even the display, break out the mobo, etc)
• 2130[13:38:08] <shtrb|laptop> $5000 (USD)
• 2131[13:38:18] <jerdef82> Basically I bought from a German company (Tuxedo computers) which refurbishes those laptops under a different name.
• 2132[13:38:21] <arha> ah, lol
• 2133[13:38:27] <jerdef82> bought it*
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• 2135[13:38:43] <arha> i have a local importer that does clevo directly, without any rebranding, but the machine should be more or less the same
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• 2138[13:39:06] <fSharp> hello everyone, I created a LUKS partition on an usb drive, and saved data in it. later I couldn't decrypt it. I am sure I have the correct password. I checked the syslogs during the creation of the partition, and there are some lines that seem like errors; replaced-url
• 2139[13:39:06] <fSharp> 12:53 and 13:32, particularly at lines 91-99
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• 2141[13:39:46] <jerdef82> arha: Which one? I'm from Europe, by the way.
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• 2144[13:40:29] <jerdef82> Tuxedo is the only importer I found in Europe.
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• 2146[13:40:39] <jerdef82> only decent importer*
• 2147[13:41:49] <arha> p775-dm
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• 2150[13:42:13] <arha> ah, the importer. they are local (tekadvice.ro) not sure if they ship outside .ro
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• 2153[13:43:24] <jerdef82> Their laptops look a lot like mine own (surprise! ;-) )
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• 2156[13:43:32] <arha> heheh
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• 2159[13:43:57] <arha> the only thing i'm complaining about is that mine sometimes goes full throttle fans before poweroff for exactly 45s
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• 2161[13:44:13] <arha> not sure why, never found the fix
• 2162[13:44:43] <jerdef82> Guys, please don't tell me I'll have to install Ubuntu. Ubuntu solves all your problems but you don't know WTF happened. LOL
• 2163[13:45:02] <arha> well, i did, did a lspci -kk -v, copied every driver from there and well
• 2164[13:45:06] <arha> sort of worked
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• 2166[13:45:36] <arha> booting back into debian and had to compile some, but iirc, drivers now exist in debian 9
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• 2170[13:46:13] <jerdef82> Man, it seems there are a lot of issues with Nvidia cards. Can't blame the big guy for saying "Fuck you" to them.
• 2171[13:46:45] <jerdef82> Yeah, Debian 9 solved a lot of problems. It's a great release.
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• 2180[13:48:02] <jerdef82> "the only thing i'm complaining about is that mine sometimes goes full throttle fans before poweroff for exactly 45s"
• 2181[13:48:02] <jerdef82> That reminds me of an issue I had with an old 8800GT.
• 2182[13:48:09] <BluesKaj> optimus problems aren't auto-solved on ubuntu either jerdef82, believe it
• 2183[13:49:08] <jerdef82> The Nvidia driver was faulty and the fans would go full throttle during the entire time the computer was turned on.
• 2184[13:49:40] <jerdef82> A fix only came after two weeks or so.
• 2185[13:50:37] <jerdef82> BluesKaj: Yeah, I'm certainly willing to believe that.
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• 2192[13:54:50] <jerdef82> The reason I'm saying this is because the laptop came with Ubuntu 16.04 and everything seemed to work fine (including the GPU). That lasted a couple of days until I replaced it with Debian9.
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• 2196[13:56:18] <a_loo> hey @D4rk36
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• 2210[14:01:45] <jerdef82> Anyway, thanks to all of you who took the time to help out, appreciate it!
• 2211[14:02:29] <BluesKaj> jerdef82 debian is a bitch to configure some nvidia gpus , miine included, but nouveau seems to do the job quite well, and I'm not a gamer so there isn't much demand on the gpu here.
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• 2217[14:04:12] <Guest67199> debian is not the bitch, its nvidia ^^
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• 2223[14:07:22] <BluesKaj> Guest67199, I beg to differ, depends on your experience and which gpu
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• 2228[14:08:23] <shtrb|laptop> the Big Guy /
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• 2232[14:09:46] <shtrb|laptop> jerdef82, If it's ok to ask how much it cost in EU ?
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• 2236[14:11:54] <noodlepie> I just use the nuveaux driver and the kernel fb for nvidia. I like liberty :)
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• 2241[14:12:34] <Li> I came in piece !
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• 2252[14:15:20] <Li> I left my debian laptop on with closed lid now I opened the lid and no signal
• 2253[14:15:55] <Li> are there any ways around to solve this issue without having to restart the laptop?
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• 2259[14:17:50] <shtrb|laptop> try clicking on space / or power button
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• 2262[14:18:10] <shtrb|laptop> the power mangment in plasma sometimes send you laptop to sleep
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• 2264[14:18:23] <Li> tried those already|
• 2265[14:18:25] <shtrb|laptop> LI^
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• 2269[14:19:01] <Li> it's not sleeping I hear the fan on
• 2270[14:19:11] <fSharp> can I run strings and grep simultaneously on the same drive?
• 2271[14:20:47] <shtrb|laptop> can you move to TTY1 ?
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• 2273[14:20:54] <shtrb|laptop> alt+ctrl+f1
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• 2279[14:22:13] <shtrb|laptop> LI?
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• 2282[14:22:37] <Li> shtrb|laptop: nothing is happening
• 2283[14:23:14] <shtrb|laptop> Clicking on caps lock / num luck enable the led ?
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• 2293[14:27:25] <Li> shtrb|laptop: none
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• 2295[14:28:59] <shtrb|laptop> If your keyboard is disabled and there is no extra keyboard I have no idea what you could do (num lock/caps lock should change led state)
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• 2300[14:30:39] <Li> nothing! I've connected usb keyboard and pressed almost all buttons
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• 2302[14:31:00] <Li> why linux is doing this action unlike windows? drivers?
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• 2317[14:39:00] <BluesKaj> Li , alt+prtscn+SUB should reboot it
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• 2324[14:41:09] <Li> what is the SUB?
• 2325[14:41:33] <noodlepie> Installing Debian binary packages is really quick compared to building binary packages from source distributions, like in Gentoo (It's stable on my i7 8 core laptop). Sure having good hardware is a boost for Gentoo but on older machines, I always recommend Debian.
• 2326[14:41:51] <Li> anyway guys, I don't recommend buying any used items from the damn ITSCO ebay.de
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• 2328[14:42:05] <Li> all their crap is faulty
• 2329[14:42:15] <Li> this laptop is leaking electricity too
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• 2332[14:42:52] <BluesKaj> leaking electricity, how so?
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• 2335[14:43:55] <jerdef82> "(02:09:46 PM) shtrb|laptop: jerdef82, If it's ok to ask how much it cost in EU ?"
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• 2337[14:44:09] <jerdef82> Sorry, I was AFK;
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• 2339[14:44:26] <jerdef82> It cost 1700 euro.
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• 2344[14:45:59] <jerdef82> "(02:15:19 PM) Li: I left my debian laptop on with closed lid now I opened the lid and no signal"
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• 2346[14:46:11] <jerdef82> Do you have swap?
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• 2349[14:47:42] <jerdef82> And how big is it? When a computer hibernates it's not able to recover from its sleep if it doesn't have a big enough swap.
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• 2351[14:47:58] <Li> BluesKaj: there is little shocking if you touch the laptop side with back of your hands
• 2352[14:48:25] <Li> jerdef82: I already shutdown/turnon the laptop
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• 2355[14:49:30] <jerdef82> Then you won't know for sure until it happens next time.
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• 2360[14:51:06] <kabeo> .
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• 2380[14:59:47] <no_gravity> When I do 'chmod g+s someDir' will that cause all newly created and all changed files in someDir to always have the same group as someDir?
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• 2396[15:11:22] <jelly> no_gravity: only newly created. editing a file does not change ownerships.
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• 2409[15:20:43] <no_gravity> jelly: I see. Thanks.
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• 2462[15:49:11] <terminalator> What's the recommended cli way to change xterm font size?
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• 2472[15:53:55] <Stummi> terminalator, not sure about xterm, but in (u)rxvt you would do it through the .Xresources
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• 2476[15:55:51] <terminalator> Stummi: Ah, I see. Thanks for clearing things up. I was going to do it that way. What's the default terminal emulator in debian? Installed debian without a desktop environment, just using i3wm.
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• 2479[15:56:46] <terminalator> I see, it's /usr/bin/urxvt
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• 2481[15:56:56] <terminalator> Cool ;)
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• 2489[16:01:07] <shodan`> Anyone in here know why apache2 is a dependency for php 7.2?
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• 2491[16:01:35] <RoyK> shodan`: I guess php has a dependency on 'some webserver'
• 2492[16:01:54] <RoyK> that is, depending on the php package
• 2493[16:01:54] <shodan`> why though? PHP doesn't require a webserver to work
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• 2495[16:02:13] <RoyK> shodan`: which package?
• 2496[16:02:19] <shodan`> php 7.1 doesn't have this dependency as far as I can tell
• 2497[16:02:33] <RoyK> shodan`: backports or testing?
• 2498[16:02:37] <RoyK> or sid?
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• 2500[16:02:42] <shodan`> 1 sec
• 2501[16:02:52] <shodan`> debian 8
• 2502[16:03:02] <shodan`> the package is php7.2
• 2503[16:03:35] <bites> php 7.1 has the same dependencies. it's a metapackage that depends on either libapache2-mod-php7.2, php7.2-fpm or php7.2-cgi
• 2504[16:03:35] <RoyK> erm - where did the php7.2 package come from in jessie?
• 2505[16:04:04] <bites> choose one of the three.
• 2506[16:04:26] <bites> libapache2-mod-php7.2 is first on the list that's why it tries to install it.
• 2507[16:04:26] <shodan`> oh wait, yeah. You're right bites. I forgot it was a meta package.
• 2508[16:04:45] <petn-randall> shodan`: Debian 8 does not ship with php7.2.
• 2509[16:04:51] <shodan`> I know
• 2510[16:04:54] <RoyK> petn-randall: my point
• 2511[16:05:30] <shodan`> I was just confused for a second. I need the package `php7.2-cli` not the metapackage `php7.2`. Should probably get some more sleep.
• 2512[16:05:35] <shodan`> Thanks!
• 2513[16:05:40] <petn-randall> shodan`: The point is, how should we know what the dependency chain is, if you got the php7.2 from some other party?
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• 2515[16:05:54] <shodan`> didn't get it from another party
• 2516[16:06:14] <petn-randall> ,v php7.2
• 2517[16:06:15] <judd> Package: php7.2 on amd64 -- buster: 7.2.3-1; sid: 7.2.3-1
• 2518[16:06:17] <shodan`> but I was forgetting the correct package name so it was my bad.
• 2519[16:06:36] <petn-randall> shodan`: So you backported it yourself for jessie?
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• 2521[16:08:14] <shodan`> I didn't set up the machine. Just needed to upgrade some stuff. But it's all good now.
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• 2523[16:09:49] <RoyK> shodan`: check what's in /etc/apt/sources.list and /etc/apt/sources.list.d/
• 2524[16:10:21] <RoyK> possibly someone added sid repos to it 'to make things easier'
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• 2596[16:33:56] <jelly> TestDummy, DummyPlug: there is two of you!
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• 2602[16:35:10] <anonymip> the more the merry
• 2603[16:35:14] <DummyPlug> yeah I saw that, it opened two hexchats
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• 2612[16:38:19] <DummyPlug> I just started using Debian, what is one of the first things I should do on it?
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• 2617[16:41:32] <petn-randall> DummyPlug: Use it for whatever reasons you bought a computer. :)
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• 2620[16:41:59] <annadane> probably a good first step is to read replaced-url
• 2621[16:42:08] <DummyPlug> so watching porn and stealing stuff?
• 2622[16:42:12] <DummyPlug> probably not
• 2623[16:42:13] <annadane> and then brag to all your friends that you're using debian
• 2624[16:42:48] <DummyPlug> I will read that.
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• 2631[16:47:08] <annadane> and then if you're really really interested replaced-url
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• 2639[16:49:10] * annadane STILL needs to read those
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• 2646[16:50:15] <terminalator> I'm realli diggin'debian sid with i3 (no desktop environment) just barebone and minimal ;)
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• 2651[16:51:39] <terminalator> I've used different ubuntu flavors the last 5 years, but I'm considering switching to debian
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• 2681[17:01:19] <JyZyXEL> how is debian sid on the desktop? lately i've been considering about it..
• 2682[17:01:32] <greycat> What's wrong with stable?
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• 2685[17:03:00] <annadane> sid is "fine" but comes with the usual disclaimers of breakage (either in big ways like being unable to boot (though this is rare) or packages break in small ways and you get bugs)... it's fine to use on a second computer where you don't do any mission critical stuff
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• 2691[17:03:31] <annadane> also, replaced-url
• 2692[17:03:54] <Tom01> Debian stable is too outdated for a Desktop-System.
• 2693[17:04:00] <greycat> Bullshit.
• 2694[17:04:06] <Tom01> no shit
• 2695[17:04:09] <annadane> it depends on your use case, some people do feel that way
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• 2697[17:04:14] <greycat> I am using it on my desktop right now.
• 2698[17:04:25] <Tom01> greycat: Then you are outdated.
• 2699[17:04:31] <greycat> *plonk*
• 2700[17:04:34] <annadane> so go ahead and use sid with its newness if you want, just be cautious and have more than one computer and back up your stuff
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• 2709[17:05:21] <Tom01> ok
• 2710[17:05:25] <annadane> sid is good for developers who know how to use the system and actually do need the latest tools
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• 2712[17:05:32] <JyZyXEL> with sid, it's the upgrading part that i'm concerned about
• 2713[17:05:45] <JyZyXEL> you _really_ need to READ the changelogs before upgrading stuff
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• 2716[17:06:12] <Tom01> annadane: that is Debian unstable
• 2717[17:06:15] <JyZyXEL> and there on sid isn't really a way to use unattended-upgrades for just keeping up with security upgrades?
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• 2721[17:06:47] <annadane> maybe. apt-listchanges will by default show you the more important items (and you can configure it later via dpkg-reconfigure apt-listchanges)... more relevant in terms of upgrade problems is package transitions, if you blindly upgrade you're likely to remove 50+ packages you want
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• 2723[17:06:52] <annadane> and so you need to wait
• 2724[17:07:28] <annadane> i like sid and it's generally stable but i wouldn't use it on my main computer
• 2725[17:07:38] <JyZyXEL> annadane: exactly, with some packages you'll need to wait, while some packages you should/could install straight away (because it fixes a security issue or a trivial bug for example)
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• 2741[17:11:49] <annadane> anyway, replaced-url
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• 2753[17:16:39] <JyZyXEL> ever since DebConf16 or 17, when I heard one of the Debian gurus publicly announcing "I don't understand how anyone can use anything other than unstable.." i've had this idea stuck in my head, that i need to be running unstable as well :P
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• 2758[17:17:53] <leszek> hi, debian testing shows me "could not load seccomp policy: Invalid argument" when running apt. To get rid of that warning I need to disable seccomp or is there a more proper way?
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• 2764[17:19:16] <annadane> i just like the idea of stable as a main workstation because you don't have to fiddle with it, everything typically just works... as i said, sid is fine, but i'd absolutely have more than one computer to work with
• 2765[17:19:26] <JyZyXEL> i run my stretch with auto-building upstream stable kernel, self-built mesa/libdrm/llvm and been planning on building and running self-built upstream KDE Plasma/Qt/Xorg too :P
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• 2774[17:21:15] <kirk781> JyZyXEL, Maybe he said that because Debian Stable often hosts quite old packages.
• 2775[17:21:39] <kirk781> And in my experience, Debian Testing / UnStable isn't too compromising on stability either.
• 2776[17:21:53] <JyZyXEL> kirk781: exactly, so i constantly find myself backporting or self building stuff
• 2777[17:21:57] <greycat> Depends on which definition of "stable" you are using.
• 2778[17:21:58] <annadane> i think in terms of philosophy you should be able to fiddle with whatever you want and having more sid users means more bug finding/fixing, but just make people aware that it will not be as crash-free as stable
• 2779[17:22:25] <greycat> If you're using the definition that means "it works, mostly" then sure, testing works, mostly. Most of the time. But it sure as hell is not stable in the Debian sense (non-changing API/ABI/user interface).
• 2780[17:22:36] <kirk781> greycat, of course for some mission critical systems, there is no need for unstable/testing. But for home computers, IMO, they are alright
• 2781[17:22:48] <annadane> leszek, it sort of depends what you did to trigger that error message; the general channel for testing/sid is #debian-next on irc.oftc.net, could be a testing specific issue
• 2782[17:23:20] <greycat> Sure, you can use testing or unstable on your PC all you want. It's your PC. Do what you want. Just don't make stupid blanket claims like "stable is too old for a desktop" when literally thousands of people are using it that way right now.
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• 2785[17:23:45] <greycat> Here at work, the issue is the other way around -- lots of the desktop systems are not UPGRADED TO STABLE yet.
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• 2787[17:23:50] <leszek> JyZyXEL: we are doing that for neptune. If you want the latest and greatest from Plasma you need also Qt 5.9 at least which is not in stable. That then produces a huge dependency issues for all other qt5 based apps in the stable repo
• 2788[17:23:57] <annadane> or i guess, not crash-free but problem-free
• 2789[17:24:10] <kirk781> Wait, you are running older than Stable then?
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• 2791[17:24:16] <greycat> Yes.
• 2792[17:24:24] <annadane> if sid does _crash_, i want a debian stable backup to diagnose with and keep nothing sensitive on that computer in the (rare) event that it happens
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• 2794[17:24:55] <leszek> annadane: I did basically nothing but launch the image on an arm machine
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• 2799[17:27:33] <greycat> Recently, on the Windows side of the universe here at work, some services started refusing service to Windows XP machines. Because they want to try to phase those out. But if there's a mission-critical XP machine, guess what....
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• 2801[17:27:44] <annadane> replaced-url
• 2802[17:27:59] <greycat> All the Windows PCs are supposed to be upgraded to Windows 7 now.
• 2803[17:28:08] <JyZyXEL> leszek: but it should be possible to run a self-built non-debian-packaged KDE plasma that has been built with latest Qt: replaced-url
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• 2806[17:29:12] <greycat> So when people say things like "Debian stable has quite old packages" I just shake my head in mystification.
• 2807[17:29:35] <leszek> JyZyXEL: should be possible though you need then to use different paths for the selbuild qt version so it is not getting confused
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• 2810[17:29:45] <leszek> and also picks up the correct qt libs when building
• 2811[17:30:12] <JyZyXEL> i think the kde build system has support for building qt along with kde
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• 2813[17:30:45] <greycat> Building QT and KDE and then running KDE sounds like torture to me, but hey, if that's what you're into....
• 2814[17:30:54] <annadane> also for anyone *not* aware, stable has backports in some instances
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• 2817[17:31:56] <JyZyXEL> furthermore, a lot of stable backports are really simple to do by yourself
• 2818[17:32:03] <greycat> In many cases, yes.
• 2819[17:32:29] <JyZyXEL> for example, i've done "deluge" myself, because it fixed some really annoying usability bug that i was having trouble with
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• 2824[17:33:43] <leszek> JyZyXEL: never tried that
• 2825[17:33:48] <annadane> i find the main thing people don't want is for absolute newbies to use debian-next and then complain when they accidentally remove udev
• 2826[17:33:57] <JyZyXEL> greycat: it took a lot of working hours to get both Plasma and Qt building in a stretch chroot, but i got there eventually
• 2827[17:34:14] <annadane> "this is debian's fault!" well no, you didn't read the upgrade prompt before pressing y
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• 2829[17:34:43] <JyZyXEL> i built them and then ran out of juice to actually figure out how to make them useful, hehe
• 2830[17:35:29] <JyZyXEL> thus i'm left considering, maybe i should just switch to unstable :P
• 2831[17:35:50] <annadane> if you do use it then it's better to just update to it from a minimal stable install
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• 2833[17:36:10] <greycat> In my experience, the main things people don't want are (1) shit changing for no reason, (2) having to learn a new thing. Hence a stable user interface, and the stable-in-the-Debian-sense release.
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• 2836[17:36:48] <greycat> People in IRC seem to be bizarre special exceptions.
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• 2838[17:37:17] <Sark> greycat: That's definitely what I prefer. Stuff that stays working and is stable.
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• 2840[17:37:20] <Sark> I love Debian.
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• 2844[17:38:08] <Sark> And as far as a stable user interface that doesn't change... that's why I use twm.
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• 2847[17:38:45] <greycat> Heh. I never cared for twm much.
• 2848[17:38:52] <JyZyXEL> annadane: well 4.1k packages on my desktop :P
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• 2850[17:39:22] <greycat> But that sentiment is why I'm still using fvwm however many decades later.
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• 2854[17:40:34] <annadane> but yeah. stability is undervalued, i certainly undervalued it for a long time
• 2855[17:40:42] <annadane> it feels wonderful to have a guarantee/safety net
• 2856[17:40:54] <rghvdberg> hi all , I'm on testing and system-config-printer doesn't work, normally I configure my printer via localhost:631 anyway
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• 2858[17:41:19] <rghvdberg> but the cups page asks for a password, I set up debian to use sudo instead of root password
• 2859[17:41:33] <rghvdberg> my login + pass doesn't work
• 2860[17:41:38] <rghvdberg> any work around ?
• 2861[17:41:41] <greycat> Set a root password.
• 2862[17:41:53] <kompowiec2[m]> does exists some differents twm than openbox?
• 2863[17:42:09] <greycat> kompowiec2[m]: the user interfaces will be quite different. Feel free to try them.
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• 2869[17:43:33] <rghvdberg> greycat, omg it works .. so simple I didn't think of it :-)
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• 2872[17:44:13] <greycat> rghvdberg: if you're a purist, you can nuke the root password after you're done setting up printers
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• 2874[17:44:45] <kompowiec2[m]> actually i used LXDE but i think about some window manager
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• 2876[17:45:08] <Sark> Yeah - I mean, twm isn't for everyone, but I've tried a bunch of other interfaces, and I just prefer twm.
• 2877[17:45:19] <Sark> I find it fast and easy and intuitive.
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• 2880[17:45:26] <rghvdberg> greycat, nah, it's ok
• 2881[17:45:32] <Li> /wc
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• 2883[17:45:37] <jelly> but anyone able to sniff localhost traffic (= root) will be able to figure out your root password!
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• 2885[17:46:08] <rghvdberg> FINALLY I can print from my laptop (aka craptop ... `Designed for Windows XP`
• 2886[17:46:25] <A_Person> gentlemen, I am trying to package test builds of a forked golang project and I am really confused about how that's supposed to work. dh-make-golang seems utterly incompatible with any operation other than building a release tag from an official repository. am I misunderstanding dh-make-golang or is there another approach for packaging golang more appropriate for this use case?
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• 2888[17:46:33] <rghvdberg> amazing how much I can get done with it anyway :-) debian + lxde ftw
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• 2897[17:48:57] <annadane> (also stable is nice if you're lazy and don't want to deal with updates)
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• 2899[17:50:22] <rghvdberg> I get sucked in 'newer is better' way too fast :-)
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• 2906[17:54:18] <kompowiec2[m]> Your convinced me, I'm installing
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• 2911[17:55:24] <annadane> i'm currently rediscovering the joy that is i3
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• 2920[18:01:36] <rghvdberg> anyone know how to get a usefull bt for r300_dri.so ? it's crashing
• 2921[18:01:51] <rghvdberg> wondering which -dbg package to install (if there are any)
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• 2937[18:05:26] <webchat254> Greatings everyone, I am on Debian 9 and trying to install virtualbox 5,2 but I get this error 'Either there is no module available for the current kernel (2.6.32-042stab123.9) or it failed to load.' Any help appreciated
• 2938[18:05:52] <greycat> webchat254: you're in a container (VPS) already
• 2939[18:06:12] <greycat> Mostly likely an OpenVZ container based on that kernel version.
• 2940[18:06:55] <greycat> mine's 2.6.32-042stab127.2
• 2941[18:07:22] <webchat254> ahh, but this is for kubernetes, whichni read runs everywhere
• 2942[18:07:57] <greycat> I really seriously doubt you can run virtualbox inside an OpenVZ container, or any other kind of container. And I have no idea what a kubernetes is.
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• 2944[18:08:25] <webchat254> ok, thanks man!
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• 2961[18:16:03] <RoyK> greycat: iirc kubernetes can run quite a few virtualisation environments, including LXC, OpenVZ and KVM and possibly others
• 2962[18:16:59] <jelly> that uname -r is however a sure sign or virtuozzo/openvz
• 2963[18:17:37] <RoyK> then kvm/vbox won't work
• 2964[18:17:46] <RoyK> lxc might, though
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• 2967[18:18:03] <jelly> nested containers!
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• 2969[18:18:21] <jelly> unlikely with 2.6.32 stab. Maybe 3.16 stab.
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• 2971[18:18:47] * RoyK is old enough to remember usermode linux :D
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• 2975[18:19:06] <jelly> but really why would openvz even want to support the other containers.
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• 2978[18:19:32] <RoyK> UML might work, though
• 2979[18:19:34] <kompowiec2[m]> i do little test twm can't see applications (just debian apps) idk it's harder than openbox
• 2980[18:19:45] <RoyK> even though it's not really very good
• 2981[18:19:49] <jelly> yeah, UML is a funny flower
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• 2984[18:20:20] <webchat254> RoyK, there is mention of kubernetes running on vps's all over google space
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• 2987[18:22:11] <webchat254> why is openvz different from other virtualization software?
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• 2990[18:22:48] <bites> because it uses an ancient patched redhat kernel.
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• 2992[18:24:04] <Sark> What do you mean twm can't "see" applications? I don't understand. It's just a window manager, you can run all applications in it
• 2993[18:24:14] <webchat254> then why if you're running a commercial vps company woud you choose it?
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• 2997[18:25:17] <bites> it was a viable choice a while ago and they didn't switch to virtuozzo 7 or something else yet.
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• 2999[18:25:49] <kompowiec2[m]> Sark: in openbox have menu "debian" and "applications". In twm doesn't have second
• 3000[18:26:10] <bites> i mean it's not EOL yet.
• 3001[18:26:11] <kompowiec2[m]> idk why
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• 3003[18:26:59] <Sark> The menus are fully configurable. You can put whatever you want in there.
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• 3006[18:27:40] <bites> we did run docker on openvz. it worked... dunno how well, wasn't my responsibility. it was with jupyter hub not kubernetes though.
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• 3008[18:28:47] <jelly> webchat254: virtuozzo had containers about a decade before upstream kernel got usable ones, so most VPS providers settled on it
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• 3011[18:30:16] <kompowiec2[m]> Sark: you can right but I don't think that I'm so advanced: P i have debian about 2-3 years and now play with conky... <embrassed>
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• 3055[18:40:07] <wilkc> anyone running debian as a vm through vmware have autofit stop working after a reboot? not sure if I should ask here or vmware. Google has failed me. openvm tools have been uninstalled and reinstalled. confirmed autofit is selected.
• 3056[18:40:50] <wilkc> also what is weird is that the max resolution if i set it manually is not fitting entirely in my monitor - like my monitor isn't 1440p
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• 3058[18:42:44] <webchat254> so after googling around, it seems vps provider ovh.de is lxc based (via promox) . would kubernetes be more likely to run there?
• 3059[18:43:04] <webchat254> --proxmox
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• 3086[19:02:47] <sphenxes> @Search clinton
• 3087[19:03:00] <sphenxes> @find clinton
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• 3090[19:03:31] <jelly> sphenxes: you're in #debian, a tech support channel for a linux distro
• 3091[19:03:42] <jelly> no clintons.
• 3092[19:03:47] <sphenxes> sorry
• 3093[19:04:17] <greycat> I feel your pain
• 3094[19:04:27] <sphenxes> I agree
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• 3097[19:05:27] <annadane> apt-cache policy clinton
• 3098[19:05:48] <annadane> (apt-cache foreign policy clinton)
• 3099[19:05:51] <annadane> ok, i'll shut up now
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• 3101[19:06:12] <sphenxes> apt install unkown package
• 3102[19:06:23] <greycat> you're totally missing the jokes, sphenxes
• 3103[19:06:33] <sphenxes> why
• 3104[19:06:51] <greycat> My guess? Because you're either not American, or too young.
• 3105[19:07:01] <sphenxes> or both
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• 3107[19:07:08] <petn-randall> sphenxes: Are you using Kali or Parrot OS?
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• 3110[19:08:22] <sphenxes> debian, what is going on. Clinton was a mistake sorry and i got the joke
• 3111[19:08:42] <annadane> sorry. just having a bit of mindless fun
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• 3147[19:21:35] <jelly> !qotd0
• 3148[19:21:36] <dpkg> <nvz> abrotman: nope.. just wakin up and seeing Guerin thats all
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• 3160[19:23:58] <abrotman> woohooo!
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• 3195[19:41:11] <tobiasBora> greycat: Hello, I looked today to your solution about using fetchmail to get imap IDLE, but as far as I know, it's not possible to use a custom command that provides the password, based on a pgp file decription for example. Any idea how I could fake that without using a temporary file, that would basically destroy the gained security?
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• 3199[19:44:52] <jhutchins_wk> tobiasBora: fetchmail usually gets the password from the fetchmailrc file.
• 3200[19:45:11] <tobiasBora> jhutchins_wk: yes, and that's the problem, because it's written in clear text...
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• 3213[19:49:15] <jhutchins_wk> tobiasBora: The only alternative is to enter the password manually.
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• 3215[19:49:36] <tobiasBora> jhutchins_wk: if I don't provide it, it will ask me the password manually?
• 3216[19:49:40] <jhutchins_wk> tobiasBora: See response 11, ESR's notes on fetchmail encryption: replaced-url
• 3217[19:49:41] <petn-randall> I'm running Debian stable. Has anyone noticed long delays when certain programs like firefox/thunderbird/geany become unresponsive for several seconds? It *may* be related to the spectre v2 bios updates, it's roughly around the same time. Intel Ivybridge CPU here.
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• 3219[19:49:51] <petn-randall> s/when/where/
• 3220[19:50:20] <jhutchins_wk> petn-randall: You're not swapping are you?
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• 3223[19:51:26] <petn-randall> jhutchins_wk: 'swapon -s' says 100% free.
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• 3228[19:53:46] <johnfg> hi folks
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• 3234[19:54:31] <johnfg> I had to boot my previous kernel, then rebuild the openafs-client module, in order for openafs-client to work/fun, in jessie.
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• 3236[19:54:42] <johnfg> work/run.
• 3237[19:54:52] <_78bash> Can anyone say why Sia hasn't had updates for the past coupla days?
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• 3239[19:54:57] <_78bash> Sid*
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• 3241[19:55:47] <tobiasBora> jhutchins_wk: I do agree with the fact that obsurity is not a solution, but here, I'm sorry, it has nothing to do with obscurity, because the file that contains the encrypted password is encrypted with a PGP key which needs a passphrase to be used. So even if you have full access to the computer, you cannot get the password (except if the computer is opened, and the the attaquant wants to try a coldboot
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• 3243[19:55:49] <tobiasBora> attack... but if you prefer you can suppose that the computer has been turned off for more than 10mn during the attack)
• 3244[19:55:53] <annadane> _78bash, try apt update first
• 3245[19:56:16] <_78bash> annadane - I have
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• 3248[19:56:55] <siru> hi, for a 2 nic lacp bond on stretch do I still need ifenslave?
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• 3250[19:57:08] <_78bash> annadane - Are you getting upgrades from Sid currently?
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• 3252[19:58:10] <annadane> i'm on stable
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• 3258[19:59:40] <annadane> _78bash, the folks on #debian-next (irc.oftc.net) may be able to help, or it could be a mirror problem, maybe try #debian-mirrors on the same network
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• 3260[19:59:58] <annadane> or try changing your mirror, of course
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• 3262[20:00:09] <_78bash> Ok thanks for tip annadane
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• 3274[20:03:50] <johnfg> Should I not have a line for deb replaced-url
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• 3278[20:04:17] <greycat> I would definitely remove it.
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• 3280[20:04:32] <greycat> Or at least comment it out, but probably just remove it, because I would not be adding it back. But that's me.
• 3281[20:04:46] <johnfg> greycat: why wouldn't you add it back?
• 3282[20:05:01] <johnfg> greycat: tbh, I don't even remember what I used it for...
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• 3285[20:06:32] <greycat> The packages in stretch do what I need, so using a third-party source that has notoriously been difficult in the past....
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• 3291[20:07:57] <NoeticBSD> anyone here try antix?
• 3292[20:08:05] <annadane> !anyone
• 3293[20:08:05] <dpkg> Please do not ask if anyone can help you, knows 'something' or uses 'some_program'. Instead, ask your real question. (If the real question _was_ "does anyone use 'some_program'?" ask me about <popcon> instead.) See <ask> <ask to ask> <polls> <search> <sicco> <smart questions>.
• 3294[20:08:22] <johnfg> greycat: Thanks, I'll update to stretch on this main server (been on stretch on other machines), and maybe I won't need dmo any more.
• 3295[20:08:23] <annadane> though "try" implies it's not a technical question and just curiosity
• 3296[20:08:28] <annadane> if so, i apologize
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• 3298[20:10:00] <_78bash> Ok, it seems there might be an issue with debian-archive.trafficmanager.net, at leat with Sid
• 3299[20:10:06] <NoeticBSD> yeah I am wonting to get someone take on it.
• 3300[20:10:21] <NoeticBSD> and needing to learn to spell as well
• 3301[20:10:28] <johnfg> Does this look sane, for the upgrade of jessie->stretch? replaced-url
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• 3303[20:11:08] <annadane> johnfg, looks fine, but you should also consider reading the release notes: replaced-url
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• 3305[20:11:59] <johnfg> annadane: I did read them (skimmed, tbh) a while ago, but will peruse them again before the update. Thanks!
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• 3390[20:53:51] <johnfg> When the release notes say to backup the output of: dpkg --get-selections "*", are they meaning to just do the output to a file?
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• 3392[20:54:02] <greycat> yes
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• 3397[20:54:13] <johnfg> greycat: I thought so, but wanted to be sure.
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• 3404[20:56:44] <johnfg> greycat: When it mentions about if you manage pkgs with aptitude...sometimes I do, most of the time apt, or apt-get, sometimes synaptic pkg manager.
• 3405[20:57:20] <johnfg> Should I still backup /var/lib/aptitude/pkgstates?
• 3406[20:57:28] <greycat> Can't hurt.
• 3407[20:57:32] <johnfg> k
• 3408[20:59:23] <DHowett> Scriptonaut: did you end up getting your new machine installed?
• 3409[21:00:47] <johnfg> greycat: Any problem doing this remotely (which I am, so far) via ssh into the server?
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• 3412[21:00:58] <physkets> Hi!
• 3413[21:01:09] <annadane> hello
• 3414[21:01:23] <johnfg> i.e., at least through the dist-upgrade?
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• 3416[21:01:28] <physkets> Can someone tell me if drivers exist for the following WiFi card: ?
• 3417[21:01:30] <physkets> replaced-url
• 3418[21:01:46] <physkets> And if I can make an access-point with it?
• 3419[21:02:52] *** arora is now known as arora_
• 3420[21:02:54] <physkets> (I'm planning to buy a mini-PC and it comes with that card. I want to know if I can make a WiFi access-point with it, before I go ahead an buy the device)
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• 3432[21:08:09] <NoeticBSD> physkets: replaced-url
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• 3434[21:08:59] <NoeticBSD> it appears the chipset and drivers do support packet injection and monitor mode, so you "should" be able to use it and config as a WAP
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• 3470[21:30:14] <Scriptonaut> DHowett: I decided to just wait til today to get a cheap usb drive
• 3471[21:30:25] <Scriptonaut> I tried setting up a pxe server and had issues on elementaryOS
• 3472[21:30:39] <Scriptonaut> can prob find one for like $5-10 easy
• 3473[21:30:48] <physkets> Thanks NoeticBSD !
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• 3504[21:46:09] <Wizard> debian++, my bluetooth headphone work, spotify works. I can rice!
• 3505[21:46:10] <Wizard> :D
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• 3649[23:10:03] <annadane> where do i have to put my aliases for root to use them?
• 3650[23:10:20] <annadane> i'd put a few in .bash_aliases before but they weren't executed
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• 3655[23:12:25] <Tenkawa> you can try .bashrc
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• 3657[23:13:05] <Logg> /root/.bashrc
• 3658[23:13:35] <annadane> must it be /root/.bashrc? okay.
• 3659[23:13:49] <Logg> you have to either `source /root/.bashrc` or restart the terminal to put it into effect
• 3660[23:14:09] <Logg> yeah, each user has their own bashrc
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• 3662[23:14:10] <annadane> "source /root/.bashrc" in what?
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• 3664[23:14:14] <Tenkawa> yeah that too
• 3665[23:14:39] <Logg> root@hostname:~# @annadane
• 3666[23:15:11] <annadane> ...just type that explicit command as root in root's default login?
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• 3668[23:15:20] <Logg> or you can just open a new terminal
• 3669[23:15:27] <annadane> as opposed to just adding entries to /root/.bashrc and leaving it alone?
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• 3671[23:16:05] <Logg> no... "source" is just to make changes happen for a terminal that was opened before your changes in /root/.bashrc were written
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• 3673[23:16:27] <annadane> oh, sorry
• 3674[23:16:31] <annadane> i get what you mean noe
• 3675[23:16:32] <annadane> now
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• 3698[23:29:40] <sine0> is there an installation of debian that boots into a sshd via dhcp. I want to run an install on a server without a monitor
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• 3700[23:29:52] <Tenkawa> Any luck?
• 3701[23:30:08] <annadane> me? i haven't done it yet
• 3702[23:30:14] <DHowett> Scriptonaut: ah! too bad/USB does sound much easier :)
• 3703[23:30:25] <Tenkawa> annadane: ahh ok
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• 3705[23:30:44] <bites> bash invocation is an absolute mess.
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