People who Joins , Parts or Quits a chatroom
this is #debian
an IRC -Channel at freenode
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2021-06-01)
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1 [00:00:18] <Kelsar> s10gopal: look up some videos and use
what you think looks nice
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4 [00:00:41] <s10gopal> bites, amd r5 m430 and broadcom wifi
card will work too ? or i should choose debian un official disk ?
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6 [00:01:06] <s10gopal> Kelsar, what about drivers ?
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8 [00:02:07] <s10gopal> can i install AMD Catalyst on debian ?
9 [00:02:42] <Kelsar> catalyst is dead
10 [00:02:43] <bites> i have no comment on that amd card. if
that broadcom card is going to work depends on the model. do you
know it?
11 [00:02:59] <Kelsar> s10gopal: it is either radeon or amdpgu,
booth work fine
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14 [00:03:58] * Kelsar has no debian desktop system, to be fair
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16 [00:04:09] <s10gopal> Kelsar, fglrx works with debian 9.4 ?
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18 [00:04:32] <Kelsar> s10gopal: no, fglrx is gone for good, amd
buried it and said use radeon
19 [00:04:53] <Kelsar> usually even got better performance
20 [00:04:54] <bites> if you are using the unofficial firmware
installer you have a higher chance of it working out of the box. but
even then, some broadcom firmwares have a license that prevents
redistribution.
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22 [00:06:17] <s10gopal> Kelsar, i have multi gpu and dont know
how to switch between amd and intel
23 [00:06:27] <Kelsar> neither do i
24 [00:06:43] <Kelsar> amd+intel are pretty rare
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66 [00:29:24] <debbie_> I installed Debian Stretch + apt-get
install firmware-atheroes + removed network manager and installed
wicd. When I scan for wifi networks none are found. Wicd always says
"switch on wifi" despite clicking it. 01:00.0 Network
controller: Qualcomm Atheros QCA9377 802.11ac Wireless Network
Adapter (rev 31) --- dmesg output:
replaced-url
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76 [00:33:06] <debbie_>
replaced-url
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81 [00:35:13] <debbie_> Kernel driver in use: r8169
82 [00:35:27] <debbie_> Kernel driver in use: ath10k_pci
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89 [00:37:53] <debbie_> sec rebooting
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98 [00:40:16] <guest_> should i install debian on ufei or Legacy
?
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114 [00:49:10] <zebmccorkle> guest_: if your computer supports
UEFI, I'd suggest it
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116 [00:49:57] <guest_> zebmccorkle: i am having hp ay008tx
laptop , 12gb ram + 128gb ssd
117 [00:50:19] <guest_> zebmccorkle: and what about secure boot ?
it should be enabled ?
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129 [00:53:08] <LtL> guest_: on my machines i turn secure boot
off.
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163 [01:14:34] <guest_> can i install non free drivers on debian
original iso ?
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205 [01:45:12] <date_night> You need to enable the non-free repo
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254 [02:13:46] <jim> hi... got a forwarded xy from ##linux... the
Y is to install stretch and have drivers for floppies available, the
two Xs being considered are...
255 [02:14:13] <jim> 1, installing from a live stretch cd known
to have the floppy drivers
256 [02:14:37] <jim> 2, I think he's gonna try a netinstall
257 [02:15:26] <somiaj> It is suggestion one uses the netinstall
over the live images (though the installer on those is bassicaly the
same now, you just have to boot into the installer directly, not the
live system)
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261 [02:16:01] <somiaj> I would imangine the floppy drivers are
in the debian kernel, and should still work. Though I haven't
actually used a floppy for a long time (or were they wanting to
install from floppies)?
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265 [02:17:17] <somiaj> My stretch kernel has,
CONFIG_INTEL_IOMMU_FLOPPY_WA=y, which I think means the floppy
driver is built in
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270 [02:18:01] <jim> somiaj, ok, can I read the config file for
whichever netinstall he's using?
271 [02:18:28] <jim> he says it's not working for some
reason, details pending
272 [02:18:43] <somiaj> jim: debian puts configs in
/boot/config-kernel-version, and I expect the kernel to be the same
in stretch as the installer.
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274 [02:19:02] <somiaj> though been so long, I just grep -i
floppy /boot/config-4.9.0-6-amd64 and that is the only thing that
returned
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276 [02:19:32] <Unit193> I presume you have a
kernel/drivers/block/floppy.ko too?
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278 [02:19:52] <jim> probably
279 [02:20:06] <somiaj> Unit193: I do, do you know what config
options creates that
280 [02:20:19] <somiaj> so yea, maybe they just need to
'modprobe floppy'
281 [02:20:27] <Unit193> Unfortunately, no. Sorry.
282 [02:20:29] <somiaj> turns out tehre are some options that
maybe needed depending on the drive.
283 [02:20:50] <somiaj> jim:
replaced-url
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285 [02:21:27] <jim> can we do this: boot the netinstall, then
look for the module and/or the config file?
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287 [02:21:34] <somiaj> well it appears the module is there,
though unsure what config option to set for.
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289 [02:22:00] <somiaj> yes you can, but I would assume the
module is there, I would look at dmesg, and look for errors, it
could be you may need to pass some additional options to the module
if the floppy drive just isn't being detected
290 [02:22:12] <somiaj> it could also be the module isn't
being autoloaded, and a 'modprobe floppy' would be enough
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299 [02:28:33] <jim> he says he wants to install grub onto a
floppy from the installer, I'm trying to find out why nopw
300 [02:29:16] <somiaj> that is strange, but I don't think
floppies have tranditional mbrs
301 [02:29:51] <somiaj> yea I think that is the issue, floppy
drives do not have an MBR, so there is no place to install grub too
302 [02:30:24] <jim> I was able to install grub1 onto a floppy
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304 [02:30:53] <jim> but be that as it may, I have some
details... first, his motherboard is ASUS P28-VT
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307 [02:31:29] <jim> he wants to do an encrypted install, and...
I'll quote him (sec)
308 [02:31:34] <somiaj>
replaced-url
309 [02:31:48] <somiaj> looks like it might be possible, but
grub-install might not be able to do it.
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311 [02:32:14] <jim> when he tried to do the floppy grub install,
he found that /dev/fd0 did not exist
312 [02:32:49] <jim> sec, lemme ask him a few more questions (but
first, I'll get you that quote)
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314 [02:33:38] <somiaj> hmm, guess it works, I'm finding a
bit of confliciting info on google. this might be the best guide for
isntalling grub on a floppy
replaced-url
315 [02:33:50] <somiaj> but sounds like the issue is getting the
floppy drive detected, and checking the floppy module is loaded
316 [02:34:19] <jim> he says... the reason I need a boot disk is
because I will be using full disk encryption and that requires a
separate boot disk in cases where the motherboard firmware BIOS is
on a read-only memory device such as is the case with the ASUS
P28-VT
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318 [02:35:04] <jim> let me see if he can be flexible about
partitions
319 [02:35:15] <somiaj> I thought using a usb drive was more
common for this
320 [02:35:33] <somiaj> but anyways, the floppy driver should
still work, it could be something actually wrong with the floppy
drive.
321 [02:35:42] <jim> maybe, in any case it sounds like a better
solution
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324 [02:36:53] <somiaj> I personally wouldn't trust a floppy
drive for this, those thigns go bad so easily
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336 [02:48:10] <jim> I guess he feels he doesn't have that
choice... he says it's not possible to boot from usb
337 [02:48:25] <jim> on that hardware
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380 [03:16:58] <karlpinc> somiaj: I dunno. I had a floppy drive
continue to work for about 15 years. YMMV.
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382 [03:19:04] <somiaj> yea I guess, I finally threw my floppy
drive away when I went though my old floppies and about 70% of them
were dead
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385 [03:19:40] <somiaj> and I'm not talking about the drive,
I'm talking about the actual floppy disks...the drive still
worked, I just had no more use for it.
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389 [03:20:38] <somiaj> (at one point in time I decided that the
floppy drive was my computers identity, and for years it was the
only original part from my first computer in the 90s --
replaced-url
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391 [03:20:48] <somiaj> and now I don't even have that
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394 [03:21:15] <somiaj> though my sblive is still around, that
was my first upgade in 98, and still in my system.
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396 [03:22:24] * annadane will one day have an install that lasts
longer than 2 months
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399 [03:24:37] <shpingrlde> i used testdisk's deeper search
to locate an overwritten partition, but then accidentally backed too
far out of a menu and now i'm no longer in the deeper search.
can i use the logs to finish the task, or do i need to start a
several-hour deeper search again?
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404 [03:25:18] <somiaj> shpingrlde: I'm unsure about such a
tool, but my advise is make sure you are working on an image and you
have removed that disk from your system.
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409 [03:26:35] <karlpinc> shpingrlde: Yes. Always dd the hardware
and then make a backup from the copy and _then_ fiddle. After the
initial disk copy unplug the failing device and set it aside. The
more you touch the more will break.
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411 [03:27:07] <shpingrlde> gotcha, thanks
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414 [03:27:33] <shpingrlde> i'll run it again and get some
z's i spose
415 [03:27:45] <somiaj> even if the disk is not bad, new files,
and various other things could start writing over the data making it
harder to recover.
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421 [03:28:33] * karlpinc is trying to remember that "recovery
dd" program thingie which keeps going on hardware failure.
422 [03:29:18] <shpingrlde> dd_rescue?
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424 [03:29:39] <karlpinc> shpingrlde: That sounds right.
425 [03:29:41] <shpingrlde> this wasn't a hard drive
failure, i just ran dd and hit the wrong external disk
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429 [03:30:41] <karlpinc> shpingrlde: Then you probably
don't need dd_rescue.
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431 [03:30:54] * karlpinc wonders what recoverdm's got that
dd_rescue does not.
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438 [03:33:01] <karlpinc> gddrescue
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485 [03:52:20] <lone-wolf> I need run wireshark with other user,
then I press "sudo -u otheruser wireshark" and don't
work, it otheruser have password, which command I put password in
sudo?
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523 [04:18:38] <goaway> I just installed amd gpu drivers +
atheros 2k wifi drivers and rebooted now i'm getting
524 [04:18:46] <goaway> firmware bug amd-vi ioapic[4][5] no
southbridge ioapic found
525 [04:18:55] <goaway> and the computer isnt booting
526 [04:19:02] <goaway> i also see firwamre failed to load
ath10k/cal-pci
527 [04:19:15] <goaway> i see an endless underscore flashing
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530 [04:20:39] <goaway> amd vi event logged 7.156022
io_page_fault device 1:00 domain 0x001
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535 [04:22:27] <goaway> in recovery mode i can't even get my
ethernet card or wifi to connect
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548 [04:30:31] <drb_> ;
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552 [04:34:41] <annadane> goaway, how'd you install the
drivers
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554 [04:35:17] <goaway>
replaced-url
555 [04:35:26] <goaway> GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT = "quiet
splash ivrs_ioapic[7]=00:14.0 ivrs_ioapic[8]=00: 00.2"
556 [04:35:26] <goaway> <== but edited it accordingly
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559 [04:35:34] <goaway> now im not getting any error
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562 [04:35:59] <goaway> just an ath10k_pci firmware failed to
load ath10k/cal-pci and an underscore blinking endlessly on boot
563 [04:36:08] <goaway> i guess i should go back into recovery
mode and see why
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565 [04:36:21] <annadane> this is debian stable?
566 [04:36:27] <goaway> yes debian stretch
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568 [04:36:30] <goaway> x64
569 [04:36:44] <goaway> before i installed the amd drivers all
was booting up fine
570 [04:36:48] <goaway> -it was
571 [04:37:04] <annadane> that link doesn't explain how you
installed the drivers
572 [04:37:11] <annadane> is it from the debian repository?
573 [04:37:21] <goaway> yes
574 [04:37:50] <annadane> well, i'm not sure what the issue
is, perhaps someone else can answer it
575 [04:37:51] <goaway> Debian -- Details of package
firmware-amd-graphics in stretch
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577 [04:38:23] <goaway> i'm getting amd-vi event logged 48.x
io_page_fault device=01:00.0 domain=0x0001 address=0x0000000ffc6efe0
flags=0x0020 endlessly
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580 [04:39:27] <goaway> device 01:00.0 is
581 [04:39:36] <goaway> vga compatible controller amd [amd/ati]
carrizo (rev c8)
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668 [05:34:02] <misternumberone> hi, how can I increase the
available storage space in a running DebianLive 9.4
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672 [05:39:53] <realist--> Hello, I am seeking advice from
veteran Linux users that knows a thing or two on how challenging
Linux can be for many people, we are a small company with a distro,
customized for data center networking, our audience are people that
came from the ‘Cisco’ world, they are mostly middle aged
men with no computer sci degree and years of Cisco slavery, any
compelling/popular arguments to use, any useful links,
articles…etc to pass
673 [05:41:09] <realist--> I'm looking for ideas on what
would be a motivation to learn something new.
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675 [05:42:24] <mnuhmnuh> misternumberone: plugin a usbkey and
mount it; probably gets automounted.
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677 [05:43:19] *** realist-- is now known as realist
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682 [05:47:11] <mnuhmnuh> !nslu2
683 [05:47:11] <dpkg> [nslu2] The Linksys NSLU2 "Network
Storage Link" is a NAS device with two USB 2.0 ports and one
10/100 Ethernet port. Supported by the <armel> port of Debian
GNU/Linux.
replaced-url
684 [05:47:23] <mnuhmnuh> realist ^^^
685 [05:48:56] *** Joins: orti (~orti@replaced-ip )
686 [05:49:12] <mnuhmnuh> i'm trying to think of the name of
the free linux based router proj. that started w linksys routers ...
687 [05:49:30] <realist_> openwrt ?
688 [05:49:50] <mnuhmnuh> that's the one.
689 [05:50:10] <misternumberone> mnuhmnuh: thanks it worked, but
how can I use this space to install packages
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694 [05:52:02] <mnuhmnuh> misternumberone: live, maybe no.
installer will ask if you've additional sources to use, or let
you work around.
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697 [05:54:06] <misternumberone> mnuhmnuh: but when I sudo
apt-get install lvm linux-util cryptsetup debootstrap it fails with
not enough space on disk error
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699 [05:54:26] <misternumberone> these are packages I need to
have in the live image in order to install
700 [05:54:40] <misternumberone> lvm2**
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779 [06:49:14] <somiaj> misternumberone: you shouldn't be
installing packages in the installer enviorment, and you
shoudln't be using the live enviorment to install. The
installer gives you the option to load that stuff if needed
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782 [06:50:07] <slacko64_5401> in the history of united states
nasa has claimed unstable debian is the best
783 [06:50:31] <slacko64_5401> i have seen carpenters become them
784 [06:50:49] <slacko64_5401> or was it construction workers. i
think it was construction workers
785 [06:51:04] <somiaj> either way, it seems off topic unless you
have an actual debian support question
786 [06:51:21] <slacko64_5401> it related to debian unstable as a
historical reference, thanks
787 [06:52:28] <misternumberone> somiaj: the reason why I am
doing this is because the stretch live image contains the floppy
kernel module, but the installer image does not appear to, because
when I use it /dev/fd0 does not exist and modprobe floppy returns
file not found error
788 [06:52:51] <misternumberone> and I need to use the floppy
drive in order to complete my installation
789 [06:53:04] <somiaj> misternumberone: how much memeory do you
have, installing packages in the live image is limited by memeory.
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793 [06:53:52] <misternumberone> somiaj: 384 MB however I have
installed successfully a swap partition on a hard drive, which must
be temporary and removed before the installation is complete
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795 [06:54:32] <somiaj> I'm unsure how well swap works with
the live systems, it might only use physical memeory to run in, not
swap.
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797 [06:54:38] <somiaj> but I've never attempted this.
798 [06:55:07] <slacko64_5401> there might be a way to pipe the
available or possible modules or do a hardware scan for the correct
mount point of the floppy, or similiarly test only certain ones to
see which one is the one
799 [06:55:16] <misternumberone> well to begin with I need some
way to increase the size of the virtual storage
800 [06:55:33] <slacko64_5401> it's always good to have an
android tablet
801 [06:55:39] <slacko64_5401> for linux
802 [06:55:43] <slacko64_5401> to google
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804 [06:56:34] <somiaj> misternumberone: so the live images sees
your floppy drive just fine?
805 [06:56:50] <slacko64_5401> sometimes you can copy a module to
usb floppy and maybe access it like a regular floppy
806 [06:57:32] <misternumberone> slacko64_5401: what do you mean
to do a hardware scan and find the mount point? and usb floppy? im
not sure what you mean
807 [06:57:51] <misternumberone> somiaj: yes it loads the floppy
module and I can mount and use the floppy disk
808 [06:57:57] <somiaj> so far it seems mostly like noise to me.
809 [06:58:26] <slacko64_5401> lsusb might have info and lspci
might have info on how to get things like a floppy working, i
assumed it was something like usb floppy. normal floppies i have
seen some linux need a hardware base for
810 [06:58:39] <slacko64_5401> something like a selection process
in the installation
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812 [06:59:00] <somiaj> misternumberone: the only thing I can
think of at the time is to make an install and leave your /boot
outside of your encrypted lvm, and then after your install is
complete, move grub/boot to the floppy and then remove the
partition.
813 [06:59:34] <somiaj> misternumberone: I'm double checking
something with the installer, I am surprised the floppy module was
not present.
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816 [07:00:23] <misternumberone> slacko64_5401: it is a normal
floppy, what sort of hardware base would I need? what does that mean
817 [07:00:36] <somiaj> misternumberone: just ignore
slacko64_5401, they seem mostly to be noise so foar.
818 [07:00:38] <misternumberone> the floppy does not show up in
lspci'
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823 [07:03:14] <somiaj> misternumberone: okay, I found a bug
report about the floppy module being removed from the installer,
I'll see if it has any solutions.
824 [07:03:17] <misternumberone> somiaj: ok the problem is,
someone in the ##linux channel told me I should use regular dm-crypt
full disk encryption rather than LUKS full disk encryption because
the disk would be fuller encrypted and it would be impossible to
detect that it was an encrypted disk and not just random data
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826 [07:03:23] <misternumberone> and that sounded like a good
idea to me
827 [07:03:45] <somiaj> I'm not one who knows much about
encryption, I'm just looking to a solution for your floppy
drive issue.
828 [07:04:33] <misternumberone> thanks, is it really a bug that
the floppy module doesn't work? everyone was telling me it
should work
829 [07:05:08] <somiaj> it is marked as won't-fix, the
floppy drive was removed from the install kernel due to keeping it
small and the edge cases that need it was not enough to convence the
debian kernel team.
830 [07:05:49] <somiaj> so you may need to write a custom debian
installer to have the floppy drive avaible at boot. Do you have a
second hard disk you could use? Are you booting from usb or cdrom to
do this install?
831 [07:06:01] <misternumberone> CDROM
832 [07:06:51] <misternumberone> and i don't have another
hard drive - however how can I make a custom debian installer that
includes the module, that sounds like what I need
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835 [07:07:19] <somiaj> I'm not finding any good documention
on this (that isn't outdated)
836 [07:07:44] <misternumberone> I have done something similar to
Windows install images using something called dism, can a debian
installer be edited a similar way?
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839 [07:08:49] <somiaj> I wonder if woody can do full disk
encryption like you want.
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841 [07:09:56] <somiaj>
replaced-url
842 [07:10:57] <plasmoduck> What's a good hardware sensors
program to install? Like what program does conky "usually"
rely on to get it's sensor information?
843 [07:11:32] <somiaj> you may want to ask in #debian-boot on
irc.oftc.net, they maybe able to help you create a custom cd
installer with the floppy drive module added back in.
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845 [07:12:01] <somiaj> misternumberone: or the last release that
supported a floppy in the installer was woody, if woody can do the
encryption, you can dist-upgrade from woody -> jessie ->
stretch.
846 [07:12:41] <alkisg> Full disk encryption with floppy and
384MB RAM? That's a veeeery weird use case :D
847 [07:12:44] <somiaj> plasmoduck: mostly I think they are
kernel modules, and something like lm-sensors can read them, and
sensors-detect will scan your system for what ones it an read.
848 [07:12:57] <somiaj> alkisg: along with using a floppy drive
with grub to boot it
849 [07:13:15] <alkisg> Why oh why?! Aren't there simpler
ways?
850 [07:13:17] <somiaj> oh yea, you got that..and unsure the best
approach, (:
851 [07:13:30] <somiaj> apparntelly not on this hardware.
Doesn't support usb boot
852 [07:13:45] <alkisg> Plop can boot from usb when the hardware
doesn't support it
853 [07:13:54] <alkisg> Network boot exists since.. ever
854 [07:14:27] <alkisg> Copying a floppy module from elsewhere
while still in the installer should be easy without the need to
modify the cdrom
855 [07:14:32] <misternumberone> i was keeping using a previous
version of debian and upgrading as a resort in case other things
dont work, but was concerned about it because i would be upgrading
from legacy services all the way to full systemd
856 [07:14:32] <alkisg> Lots of options...
857 [07:15:08] <misternumberone> you said boot from USB without
hardware support? how? what is plop
858 [07:15:24] <alkisg> Google for plop boot manager, you'll
find it
859 [07:15:47] <alkisg> It fakes "bios usb support" and
then loads the OS from usb
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867 [07:19:13] <misternumberone> alkisg: sounds good but
it's hard to find out about because it looks like the website
plop.at is down for me? is there another site?
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872 [07:22:27] <alkisg> misternumberone: I'm sure sites like
softpedia etc have a local copy if plop.at is currently down
873 [07:22:31] <alkisg> Google again :)
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875 [07:23:23] <misternumberone> alkisg: also it looks from what
information I can find like it needs to use a CD to boot from first,
and then loads the USB? in this case I might as well put GRUB on the
CD, which I had also considered if nothing else works but it would
be far less convenient
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877 [07:23:55] <alkisg> misternumberone: you can put plop in a
floppy disk and then boot from usb, isn't that what you want?
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880 [07:24:09] <alkisg> You can also put plop in floppy and os in
cd-rom, whatever suits you
881 [07:24:55] <alkisg> I haven't understood your use case
well
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883 [07:25:35] <misternumberone> hmm, can plop function as an
autodetecting bootloader for regular linux installations as well?
like can it replace GRUB? that could be useful
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885 [07:26:43] <misternumberone> alkisg: my use case is a system
that can boot from CD or floppy or hard drive but I would rather not
boot from CD or hard drive because the CD is a temporary setup and
the hard drive I would like to use full disk encryption on
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889 [07:27:38] <alkisg> misternumberone: so in your final setup
you want to be booting from disk or from floppy?
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892 [07:28:39] <misternumberone> this plop sounds like it would
work but I will first go to irc.oftc.net and ask about the custom
debian installer option
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894 [07:29:02] <alkisg> I've no idea why you would need
something custom
895 [07:29:10] <alkisg> Why would the installer need access to
the floppy?
896 [07:29:20] <misternumberone> alkisg: I want to be booting
from disk, floppy or if somehow possible USB directly even though
the system does not support it
897 [07:29:54] <alkisg> OK, so why is the floppy involved at all?
I don't get it
898 [07:30:07] <misternumberone> alkisg: I need to install the
GRUB 2 bootloader to the floppy disk with encryption enabled so that
it can decrypt the hard drive and boot the installation
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903 [07:31:16] <alkisg> So in your final setup you want to be
booting from floppy? Isn't that ...90's ?
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905 [07:31:45] <alkisg> Floppies break every other week...
906 [07:32:14] <misternumberone> alkisg: i can use CD if I have
to but the CD drive setup I have for the system right now is not
clean
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909 [07:33:03] <misternumberone> it is a laptop sized cd drive
that I have stuck into the side of the computer and it was not easy
to plug into the motherboard
910 [07:33:13] <somiaj> yea, that was my comment to jim when he
was being the middleman, floppy disks are just to unrelaible to have
encryption keys on.
911 [07:33:17] <alkisg> misternumberone: I'd use the disk.
Only. No cd or floppy to boot.
912 [07:33:27] <misternumberone> so i cannot close the case while
it is connected, i have been using it to boot the images
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914 [07:33:39] <alkisg> Once the kernel loads, it can access
things from usb
915 [07:34:03] <misternumberone> alkisg: but I only have 1 hard
disk, and if I use the /boot folder on there, even if it is in its
own partition it will not be full disk encryption
916 [07:34:11] <alkisg> And?
917 [07:34:27] <misternumberone> I would like to use full disk
encryption for security of my data
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919 [07:34:36] <alkisg> If you're booting on hardware that
supports usb, I can understand it. But in your use case... no
920 [07:34:41] <alkisg> What does /boot have to do with your
data?
921 [07:34:42] <misternumberone> like I have on the computer I
use now
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924 [07:37:38] <misternumberone> because information about the
installation is stored in /boot by the operating system, and I am in
a situation where I need to take precautions against a middleman
attack from physical access to the system to modify the /boot
partition to sniff the encryption passphrase
925 [07:38:40] <misternumberone> i intend to carry with me for
example the bootloader storage device, whether it is floppy disk or
CD, so that it cannot be tampered with and my encryption passphrase
obtained
926 [07:39:04] <alkisg> If he has physical access he can install
an OS to the disk that reads your keys from the floppy, and you
wouldn't know it :D
927 [07:39:25] <alkisg> (and emulate a bios boot screen)
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936 [07:46:18] <misternumberone> a number of reasons why that is
avoided: 1. I do not store the keys on the bootloader storage, I
store them in my head and input them twice once in grub and once in
the initramfs. 2. the "bios boot screen" that appears when
the system turns on is itself a different matter, in fact one of the
unique benefits of this pc, and to answer you it is not stored on
the hard disk.
937 [07:46:20] <misternumberone> 3. I would not be fooled to
input my passphrase in any case that the disk was not also fully
encrypted and displayed as such in GRUB, and if so the attacker
would not have my passphrase, the passphrase would be wrong when I
input it, and I would realize the tampering and terminate the boot
process.
938 [07:47:01] <misternumberone> similar precautions are in fact
taken on my current PC, which uses a different boot process but also
has full disk encryption and does not store the keys.
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940 [07:49:16] <alkisg> There's no way to protect your
"software/keys/etc" from being read by "untrusted
pc/hardware/bios/boot". A base needs to be trusted to build a
trusted chain on top of it.
941 [07:49:32] <alkisg> If I have physical access I can modify
your BIOS to do whatever I want, and you wouldn't know it
942 [07:49:53] <misternumberone> one misstep is dangerous for me,
so I assure you I have thought out how my presently stored data is
secured. This is why I take such careful steps and be sure to make
the right choice for my new system.
943 [07:50:14] <alkisg> For example, to just make a clone of
whatever it reads from the floppy, to a disk sector at the end of
the disk, and I'd pick it up later
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945 [07:50:47] <alkisg> You can encrypt communications. You
can't encrypt data from the processor that's supposed to
process that data. So if I have access to the processor, I have your
data.
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948 [07:51:07] <misternumberone> I have chosen this new system
partly because it has a good feature: its bios is stored on a
genuinely ROM chip. The ROM chip cannot be overwritten as a matter
of physical construction, and when I boot the PC I intend to check
it to verify it has not been tampered with or replaced.
949 [07:51:31] <alkisg> Do you know that bios RUNs code from disk
before loading the floppy?
950 [07:51:49] <alkisg> I could put code there to override int 16
and you'd never know it
951 [07:52:11] <alkisg> I wouldn't even need to modify your
bios
952 [07:52:25] *** Quits: rcdilorenzo (~rcdiloren@replaced-ip ) (Quit: rcdilorenzo)
953 [07:52:33] <alkisg> Anyway, this is way off topic for #debian
now, so I'll stop :)
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956 [07:53:55] <misternumberone> alkisg: if the disk were
overwritten, as I have said, this would be obvious when the
encryption key does not work, and I could terminate the situation
before connecting internet
957 [07:54:19] <misternumberone> but I appreciate your ideas
958 [07:54:25] <alkisg> Encryption doesn't check all of the
disk
959 [07:54:26] <jim> misternumberone, maybe you should replace
the rom with one that allows booting from usb, that would solve a
lot of your problems
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962 [07:55:19] <Haohmaru> u need to make your own computer, your
own bios, your own processor and motherboard, your own transistors..
etc..
963 [07:55:33] <misternumberone> jim: that would be a good idea,
and also allow me to use an open source software motherboard
firmware just like my current PC
964 [07:55:42] <alkisg> It would still not be trustworthy if
others have physical access there before he came to boot
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966 [07:56:25] <misternumberone> what Haohmaru said is of course
the best way, but it does not exist, it is a dream. All I can do
right now is find the best ways I can.
967 [07:56:32] <Haohmaru> put a justin bieber picture on yer
computer - ain't nobody gon touch it
968 [07:57:03] <Haohmaru> of course, that comes with a huuuge
downside
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973 [07:58:40] <jim> misternumberone, ok, what's the down
side? (well, floppies go bad, and I challenge you to find two good
floppies in a box of 20)... if you allow booting from usb, you
should maybe get a small ssd rather than the usual usb stick,
because sticks go bad too, and ssds have been getting much better
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975 [07:59:12] <Haohmaru> folks, apt-get seems to be clever and
knows how much megabytes it gon download and how much "extra
space" will be required - why does it not check if there is
enough space available?
976 [07:59:41] <misternumberone> alkisg: could you direct me to
information about this exploit you mention makes it possible to
initiate arbitrary execution from a BIOS through changing a small
portion of the hard disk? i am interested
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979 [08:00:20] <Haohmaru> isn't that how
"master-boot-record" viruses work?
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981 [08:00:50] <jim> I had made a proposal to include data about
what packages install how much in what dirs, and someone implemented
it... they didn't like it, and I don't remember why
982 [08:01:20] <misternumberone> jim: the downside is that I am
not sure if that is possible. My current system uses a fully open
source motherboard firmware, however there is only one of those I
know exists, and it does not support this system I have that uses
ROM BIOS.
983 [08:01:20] <Haohmaru> jim is it that it's not easy to
check if there's enough space?
984 [08:01:29] <alkisg> misternumberone: I've been doing
that around 20 years ago in the DOS days. You can write code to MBR,
copy the original to sector 12345, and restore it after your code
has run, and your floppy/encryption won't know it.
985 [08:01:30] <alkisg> I don't know of any documentation
though, at that point it was more about reverse engineering; we
didn't have internet yet
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990 [08:03:03] <alkisg> misternumberone: one additional thing you
can do if you want some additional protection, is to have the md5sum
of the whole /boot partition stored in your USB where your keys are,
and refuse to continue if it doesn't match.
991 [08:03:05] <jim> well if my proposal were to be implemented,
that kind of thing would easily be possible, but they found a
problem, and I forgot what
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1000 [08:06:59] <chienxi> -1
1001 [08:07:11] <misternumberone> alkisg: again, I don't
store the keys, but storing the md5sum of the disk sounds like a
good idea. If checking the md5sum in GRUB is possible, and partial
checks are possible, could I check the md5sum of the portion of the
disk you claimed can be used for an exploit? or would this exploit
code already be active while at the same time having overwritten
itself with the original data as you said?
1002 [08:07:14] <Haohmaru> :~(
1003 [08:08:11] <misternumberone> and do all BIOS suffer from this
exploit or only some? my current system uses an extremely unusual
BIOS with a nonstandard boot process, however I would like to know
details about this.
1004 [08:08:15] <alkisg> misternumberone: you store the keys in
your floppy, if I understood you well. An overriden int 16 could
read them, pass them back to grub, while storing them for me in
sector 1234567
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1006 [08:08:44] <alkisg> misternumberone: you don't have any
logic in your boot process to check for a modified MBR that after
boot was restored
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1008 [08:09:09] <alkisg> You cannot protect against someone
modifying MBR before you came, overriding int 16, restoring mbr, and
duplicating whatever is read from your floppy
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1010 [08:09:28] <alkisg> So it would only take about 50 assembly
lines to get your keys
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1012 [08:10:39] <jim> so what you're saying is there's
no way to secure the keys?
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1015 [08:11:02] <misternumberone> alkisg: I do not store the keys.
I do not generate a keyfile. I use a passphrase which I remember and
then input at boot time. All the same, I would like to know about
this int 16 exploit, and whether all BIOS are affected.
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1017 [08:11:04] <alkisg> On hardware and initial boot software
that you cannot trust? Of course there's no way
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1022 [08:11:53] <Haohmaru> true security is a mirage
1023 [08:11:56] <alkisg> misternumberone: duplicating keystrokes
vs duplicating sectors is the same thing
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1026 [08:12:34] <alkisg> It doesn't matter if you put your
passphrase in the keyboard or in the disk or in the moon when
it's my software that reads it anyway
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1028 [08:13:07] <misternumberone> alkisg: what I would like to
know then is how this exploit really works, and can it be running at
the same time as the bootloader on the floppy?
1029 [08:13:19] <alkisg> Yes, it can
1030 [08:13:51] <alkisg> That's the basic idea: (09:09:08
πμ) alkisg: You cannot protect against someone modifying MBR
before you came, overriding int 16, restoring mbr, and duplicating
whatever is read from your floppy
1031 [08:13:51] <alkisg> There are lots of other exploits there
1032 [08:13:57] *** Quits: zabow__ (~zabow@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1033 [08:14:06] <alkisg> (s/duplicating floppy/duplicating
keystrokes/)
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1035 [08:14:35] <Haohmaru> my old computer had an MBR virus, i
could never get rid of it, and it infected every other machine i
plugged it in while trying to cure it.. i'm pretty sure
it's still there, sitting and waiting
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1037 [08:15:33] <alkisg> Nowadays it's even possible to put
code in disk firmware which is then not readable at all, so
you'll never know it's there
1038 [08:15:53] <Haohmaru> yeah, that's even worse than an
MBR virus
1039 [08:16:03] <SynfulAck> stop scaring the kids
1040 [08:16:21] <Haohmaru> sit around the fire, kids
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1042 [08:16:52] <alkisg> Hehe
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1044 [08:17:36] <misternumberone> i would like to know this then,
you said the process it performs is this: starting at a state where
malicious code is in the MBR and the previous MBR data is stored in
a different location, the BIOS reads code from the MBR before even
boot, and is exploited to begin running the malicious code. the code
then copies the previous MBR data to the place it was originally.
This is correct?
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1046 [08:18:46] <alkisg> Correct. This is just one scenario out of
thousands.
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1050 [08:19:59] <misternumberone> And from there, the code
continues to run while the BIOS loads GRUB, and then it can in
theory grab my passphrase as I input it? and while this is happening
the MBR is in its original pre-tampering state so that I cannot use
an md5sum on it, correct?
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1052 [08:20:34] <misternumberone> i'm just trying to get a
picture of this possibility, as you said one out of many potential
exploits
1053 [08:21:10] <alkisg> Correct. At that point grub is still
using interrupts to talk to the BIOS to access the hardware, and
interrupt hooking is a traditional way to run additional code there.
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1055 [08:21:47] <alkisg> Anyway that's quite off topic for
#debian; maybe you could ask in #security or something...
1056 [08:23:16] <misternumberone> well I will for sure, thanks,
but I wondered what would be the result, in your opinion, if, while
such an exploit were active, I flipped the power switch on my power
strip, and the computer's power were cut? would the MBR still
contain the malicious code, on the next boot?
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1058 [08:23:29] <misternumberone> just something that occurred to
me
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1060 [08:24:11] <misternumberone> because, as you said, the
exploitable section of the MBR at the point of power loss would be
returned to its pre-tampering state
1061 [08:24:26] <misternumberone> not of course that that would
stop other exploits, like disk firmware, as you said
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1070 [08:26:30] <Haohmaru> my old computer has gone without power
so many times, the pesky MBR virus was still there
1071 [08:27:03] <misternumberone> anyway, I will for now pursue
the possibility of creating a custom debian installer image, that
contains the floppy kernel module, so that I can use the floppy
drive, someone suggested #debian-boot on irc.oftc.net
1072 [08:27:03] <Haohmaru> but i'm not sure if its operation
scheme is the same as the above
1073 [08:28:00] <misternumberone> Haohmaru: I imagine that perhaps
that particular virus did not attempt to hide itself by overwriting
itself, which is of course still a formidable enemy
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1078 [08:28:45] <alkisg> misternumberone: a custom debian
installer image just to get access to the floppy while installing?
Why would you need that?
1079 [08:29:01] <jelly> misternumberone: how many machines are you
going to set up this way?
1080 [08:29:06] <alkisg> You can copy and modprobe the module in
many ways
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1082 [08:29:16] <alkisg> No need for a "custom image"...
1083 [08:29:24] <AliceKelly> so if you have several desktop
managers you probably dont want to uninstall them right ?
1084 [08:29:43] <jelly> if it's less than 5-10 just install
manually and fix crypttab and initramfs later
1085 [08:30:51] <misternumberone> alkisg: if I place the floppy
module from say the live image onto a USB drive, then copy it into
the installer image, I could load it with modprobe you say?
1086 [08:31:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1568
1087 [08:31:23] <AliceKelly> i was going to remove lxde fore
example. apt was going to remove like 50 things with it . seems like
you need those gtk libs etc
1088 [08:31:27] <alkisg> You can modprobe it directly from the usb
drive
1089 [08:31:42] <misternumberone> jelly: just one, but when I
attempted manual install the live image ran out of storage space
1090 [08:31:43] <alkisg> As long as the kernel version matches
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1099 [08:32:37] <misternumberone> alkisg: well that is very
helpful information thanks I will try that
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1101 [08:32:46] <alkisg> np
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1103 [08:33:21] <jelly> misternumberone: I meant format disks and
luks manually, install base system with debootstrap, then chroot
into that and fix boot loader and initramfs; avoiding the installer
completely
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1107 [08:34:39] <misternumberone> jelly: well I have to use
something to do that, somehow, and when I used the live image, I ran
out of storage while downloading cryptsetup, lvm and debootstrap,
that is what I mean
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1128 [08:48:12] <Nothing4You> what's the proper way to
shutdown a system i've booted with appending init=/bin/bash to
the kernel cmdline?
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1132 [08:49:11] <madage> /sbin/poweroff
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1134 [08:51:06] <Nothing4You> thanks, i'll try that next time
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1136 [08:52:28] <Nothing4You> is the /sbin/ what makes it work
without systemd?
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1139 [08:54:35] <madage> without PATH, i guess
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1141 [08:54:43] <Nothing4You> yeah t hat's what i meant
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1148 [08:55:45] <Nothing4You> just tried
1149 [08:55:47] <Nothing4You> doesn't work
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1152 [08:56:09] <Nothing4You> Failed to connect to bus: No such
file or directory \n Failed to talk to init daemon.
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1154 [08:56:15] <madage> /sbin/poweroff -f
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1156 [08:56:28] <Nothing4You> that works
1157 [08:56:31] <Nothing4You> thanks
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1159 [08:56:44] <madage> np
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1181 [09:06:05] <madage> also, to be on the safe side, a /bin/sync
before the poweroff might be handy
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1245 [09:32:07] <tna_agent> Apologies if this is off-topic, but:
I'm looking for additional unmanaged US-based VPS providers to
try out. So far, I've used Linode, Dreamhost, and Digital
Ocean. Are there other inexpensive hosts worth trying?
1246 [09:33:43] <FinalX> I can heartily recommend Vultr. They also
do BGP for free for you if you have your own AS.
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1248 [09:34:11] <tna_agent> FinalX: Thank you - I'll look
into that.
1249 [09:35:05] <FinalX> np :) I have 8 different geographic
locations with them now, and anycast ipv6 and all.
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1257 [09:38:41] <Sveta> what is the name of the package that
prevents me from removing essential system components? something
like debian-base or debian-core or something similar
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1261 [09:40:35] <jelly> Sveta: there isn't one
1262 [09:40:51] <jelly> of if you wish it's dpkg
1263 [09:41:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1580
1264 [09:41:05] <jelly> !essential
1265 [09:41:05] <dpkg> Packages that are assumed to be available
on your machine and as such are not included in the list of
dependencies for packages. Essential packages must be usable at all
times even when packages are unconfigured. See <policy>
section 3.8 for details; list them with "aptitude search
~E" (see <aptitude search>).
1266 [09:41:09] <Sveta> jelly: name of the (meta) package that is
installed when i do advanced install and tick 'laptop' and
'ssh' ?
1267 [09:41:37] <jelly> Sveta: those are tasks, so task-something
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1270 [09:41:55] <Sveta> jelly: for context, i have a 10GB /
partition and run out of space regularly, so i'd like to remove
"everything that is not <name for debian-base or
whatever> and is not <my favourite window manager> and is
not <network-manager or wpa_supplicant>'
1271 [09:41:55] <jelly> apt-cache search task-laptop
1272 [09:42:02] <Sveta> jelly: "
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1276 [09:42:55] <pstk> hi here
1277 [09:42:56] <jelly> and apt-cache search task ssh
1278 [09:42:57] <Sveta> jelly: how do i list 'everything that
is not required for task-laptop or wmaker or gnustep' ?
1279 [09:43:10] <Sveta> jelly: (... and is installed)
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1281 [09:43:48] <jelly> that's a completely different
question that I do not know the answer to. I'd use deborphan or
debfoster to clean up potental cruft
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1285 [09:45:08] <pstk> I have recently upgrade my desktop to
debian buster. Since "dejavu sans mano" font doesnt have
same visual: it like enlarged to the top
1286 [09:45:54] <pstk> do you know how to correct ?
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1293 [09:48:55] <moonman> Hey y'all, its moonman here, and we
gonna kill some niggers tonight!
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1297 [09:49:25] <moonman> !ops killing nigggers
1298 [09:49:26] <dpkg> Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, LoRez, RichiH,
mentor, abrotman, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel,
zobel, themill, babilen, SynrG, jm_, somiaj, jelly, petn-randall:
moonman complains about a problem (see above)
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1302 [09:50:46] <Haohmaru> o_O
1303 [09:50:59] <moonman> Haohmaru: are u a nigga?
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1305 [09:51:12] <Haohmaru> does it matter?
1306 [09:51:36] <moonman> it matters to the Kool Kids Klub (KKK)
1307 [09:51:54] <Haohmaru> oh, okay
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1326 [09:57:05] <choice> Hello! How do you install composer on
Debian?
1327 [09:57:46] <Sveta> do you mean the 'composer'
package?
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1333 [09:58:32] <choice> I don't know. I mean this thing:
getcomposer.org
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1336 [09:59:30] <Sveta> yes, that is it
1337 [09:59:40] <choice> It's in the Debian repos?
1338 [10:00:06] <jelly> ,v composer
1339 [10:00:07] <judd> Package: composer on amd64 -- stretch:
1.2.2-1; buster: 1.6.5-1; sid: 1.6.5-1
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1341 [10:00:14] <choice> So 'apt-get install composer'?
1342 [10:00:19] <jelly> there is SOMETHING called composer
1343 [10:00:35] <jelly> choice: apt-cache show composer, to see if
that's the same thing
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1346 [10:01:06] <choice> Yeah, that's it. Nice.
1347 [10:01:35] <choice> I wonder why getcomposer.org says you
should get it from their website.
1348 [10:02:03] <jelly> probably because they think
whatever's in your distro is too old
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1351 [10:02:34] <choice> Yeah. But I much prefer having it under
the control of Debian.
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1355 [10:03:48] <jelly> you do realize all of its dependency
managing and likely downloading of code will go outside of dpkg/apt
1356 [10:04:03] <choice> Sure
1357 [10:04:11] <choice> That's the insanity these days.
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1359 [10:04:31] <choice> Even big companies pull in tons of code
into their project without having any clue where it comes from.
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1363 [10:05:55] <choice> I hear that constantly when I talk to
coders. 'How did you implement xyz?' 'Oh, there is a
package for that.' 'Who wrote/maintains it?' 'I
don't know. I just added it to my composer.json and it
works'.
1364 [10:05:57] <jolt> choice: That's why I'm trying to
use docker as much as possible for stuff like that, so it at least
doesn't clutter the base-system too much
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1366 [10:06:22] <jolt> Just like npm was broken earlier this week,
and nothing was possible to install for a few hours
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1368 [10:06:30] <choice> But how will docker prevent hostile code
from reading your data and sending it to a 3rd party?
1369 [10:06:37] <jelly> that's like sweeping the dirt under
the rug
1370 [10:06:43] <urbicide> can someone help with integrated intel
graphics and mpv on debian? i think i must install something, but
nos sure what..
replaced-url
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1372 [10:06:58] <jolt> choice: Depends on how it's
compartimentalized. I'm not saying it's purfect, but I
think it's a bit cleaner
1373 [10:07:32] <jolt> At my last gig we had http proxy for
everything so dev couldn't install something that wasn't
cached internally first, and that made vetting happen
1374 [10:07:45] <jolt> Not perfect either of course
1375 [10:07:57] <jelly> urbicide: install i965-va-driver if
it's not there
1376 [10:08:27] <jelly> and run with --hwdec=vaapi explicitely if
needed
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1387 [10:15:03] <urbicide> jelly: let me try...
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1389 [10:15:49] <choice> jolt: How did this proxy setup look like?
How was it preventing devs installing something directly?
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1392 [10:17:33] <jelly> choice: outgoing proxy, limiting access to
internet except for whitelisted stuff
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1395 [10:18:11] <choice> jelly: Whoa. Doesn't it kill the
morale of rockstar coders if you give them crippled/monitored
internet access?
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1397 [10:18:31] <jelly> you don't want rockstars in a bank
1398 [10:18:39] <choice> Could be true.
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1416 [10:22:58] <jelly> also morale decline can be mitigated by
applying copious amouts of cash
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1418 [10:23:09] <choice> Could be true.
1419 [10:23:17] <choice> It's not an environment I am
interested in.
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1421 [10:23:47] <choice> I love working with people passionate to
put something exciting into the world and have a fucking good time
while doing it.
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1424 [10:24:33] <s10gopal> can i create a debian bootable pendrive
by using ubuntu's Startup Disk Creator ?
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1426 [10:25:31] <plasmoduck> s10gopal, give it a shot
1427 [10:25:34] <choice> s10gopal: Haven't done it for a
while but I'm under the impression I created bootable debian
pendrives by simply dd'ing the cd iso over or something like
that.
1428 [10:25:55] <Haohmaru> why not just "dd" the iso
onto the usb stick?
1429 [10:26:12] <urbicide> jelly: not work. looks like problem in
something else
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1432 [10:26:57] <plasmoduck> s10gopal, if you use ElementaryOS
replaced-url
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1434 [10:27:32] <s10gopal> thanks
1435 [10:27:32] <choice> plasmoduck: Can it get easier then dd
if=debian.iso of=/dev/sdb1?
1436 [10:27:40] <plasmoduck> yep
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1438 [10:28:00] <plasmoduck> choice, click on the usb device and
click on the iso image, done
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1440 [10:28:14] <plasmoduck> no typing required ;)
1441 [10:28:20] <plasmoduck> s10gopal, if you use ElementaryOS
replaced-url
1442 [10:28:29] <choice> I have the feeling some people need a
tool for everything because it makes them feel like somebody is
taking care for them.
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1444 [10:28:36] <bites> choice: yeah, cp debian.iso /dev/sdb has
to be the device, not the partition btw :P
1445 [10:29:03] <choice> bites: ok, so 'cp debian.iso
/dev/sdb' be it.
1446 [10:29:04] <plasmoduck> ^^
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1448 [10:29:56] <plasmoduck> rm debian.iso && rm -rf /
1449 [10:30:04] <plasmoduck> easy
1450 [10:30:17] <plasmoduck> don't forget the
'sudo'
1451 [10:30:24] <babilen> plasmoduck: Please do *not* mention
commands like that in here (even in jest)
1452 [10:30:40] <plasmoduck> babilen, ok
1453 [10:31:02] <plasmoduck> babilen, what is jest?
1454 [10:31:06] <babilen> "joke"
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1457 [10:31:53] <babilen> You never know who might run it and
I'm sure you are not prepared to deal with the fallout if
people follow your advice
1458 [10:33:02] <plasmoduck> true
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1460 [10:34:02] <choice> plasmoduck: You should not mention sudo
because sudo is for losers.
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1464 [10:34:29] <jelly> urbicide: if you have too new intel cpu it
might require newer software bits like the kernel and drm stuff
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1469 [10:35:23] <urbicide> jelly: nope, its 2016
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1471 [10:35:42] <urbicide> jelly: i think i dont insalled
something
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1487 [10:46:32] <user03> hi, how to upgrade a lxc container? i try
lxc-attach -n myvm apt-get -y upgrade, lxc-attach: invalid option --
'y'
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1494 [10:47:53] <bites> user03: two hyphens after the container
name.
1495 [10:48:23] <bites> lxc-attach -n container -- command
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1497 [10:49:14] <user03> bites, thank you
1498 [10:49:35] <sorin-mihai> why do i have the feeling is not the
solution?
1499 [10:50:05] <bites> war?
1500 [10:51:21] * sorin-mihai rtfm and he's wrong.
1501 [10:51:45] <bites> -- is often use to mark the end of command
options.
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1518 [11:04:13] <AciD`>
replaced-url
1519 [11:04:17] <AciD`> do you see that as well?
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remember that this is the internet)
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1531 [11:10:09] <waydot> is there a tool like rcconf for systemd?
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1556 [11:21:26] <petn-randall> !bat
1557 [11:21:26] <dpkg> In order to troubleshoot your problem with
apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information:
1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the
command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1
pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem,
and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use
replaced-url
1558 [11:21:37] <petn-randall> AciD`: Can you provide all of the
above in a single paste? ^^^
1559 [11:21:52] <AciD`> I can
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1561 [11:24:07] <AciD`>
replaced-url
1562 [11:24:27] <AciD`> `apt update` output the problem, without
having to mention any package
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remember that this is the internet)
1566 [11:27:52] <guest___> can anyone please help me , i am
installing debian first time on my laptop , i am having 120 gb ssd
and 12gb ram , i want to use swap file , how to create partition ?
auto is creating swap part.
1567 [11:28:27] <babilen> You can use the partitioner during the
installation - You could even start with the automatically created
scheme and then tailor it to your needs
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1569 [11:28:46] <babilen> (haven't touched non-expert
installs in a long time, so not sure what the offerings are there)
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1573 [11:29:52] <guest___> babilen: i did guided partitioning
-> entire disk
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1576 [11:30:33] <babilen> I figured that you've done that.
You should be able to change the proposed scheme to your liking (by
removing the swap partition and enlarging another for example)
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1580 [11:31:25] <guest___> babilen: it created 1mb freespace #1
536.9 b f esp #2 106,7 f ext4 / #3 12.8gb f swap swap 466.4 kb free
space
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1583 [11:31:36] <guest___> how to delete swap and extent #2 ?
1584 [11:32:33] <guest___> babilen: i am able to delete swap
partation but how to extent #2?
1585 [11:32:37] <sorin-mihai> are you sure you will never want to
use hibernation?
1586 [11:32:48] *** Joins: Quatroking (~Quatrokin@replaced-ip )
1587 [11:32:56] <guest___> sorin-mihai: i use swap file
1588 [11:32:58] <babilen> You should have an overview of all
partitions and their usage. You can use the arrow keys to change the
selection. Select the swap one and hit 'enter'. There
should be a way to remove it and the root one, which you can then
recreate with the size you want
1589 [11:33:52] <babilen>
replaced-url
1590 [11:34:00] <babilen>
replaced-url
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1593 [11:35:16] <guest___> i shout create root at beginnning or
end ?
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1600 [11:37:12] <pingfloyd> you shout create?
1601 [11:37:27] <guest___> should*
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1605 [11:38:39] <sorin-mihai> i would keep the esp partition as it
is, then after deleting both root and swap, i would create a single
root using the whole free space. the free space remaining at the end
of the disk is because of partition alignment, ignore that
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1607 [11:39:20] <guest___> and how to setup swap file ?
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1609 [11:40:09] <babilen> You create a file, mkswap, swapon ...
and add a suitable entry to your fstab
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1611 [11:40:16] <sorin-mihai> from may point of view, using
automated partitioning nowadays only helps with the esp and
alignment, everything else can be (re)adjusted as needed. you setup
the swapfile after the OS is installed, it's not really used
during the installation, not with your size of ram anyway
1612 [11:40:24] <sorin-mihai> s/may/my
1613 [11:40:25] <babilen> sorin-mihai: exactly
1614 [11:40:58] <guest___> thx
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1620 [11:42:26] <sorin-mihai> though, i would still use lvm, even
if it's just a 120gb drive, and that would bring in some more
fun
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1625 [11:45:19] <TandyUK> anyone familiar with preseeding?
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1627 [11:46:02] <TandyUK> Im having a real hard time getting
static ips assigned from a preseed file - all the options appear to
be correct, but on first boot, the installer still dhcp's
itself an IP, and the installed system is set to use dhcp rather
than my manual settings
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1630 [11:47:02] <TandyUK> I can appreciate it needing to dhcp
initially, until it has downloaded the preseed file (booting via
pxe), but the installed system should certianly be honoring my
settings in the preseed it is downloading and using
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1634 [11:47:29] <babilen> guest___: I use encrypted LVM for all my
boxes. LVM makes things much nicer, but you obviously don't
have to use it.
1635 [11:47:42] <TandyUK> every setting other than the netcfg/*
settings in the preseed are being honored
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1642 [11:50:58] <sorin-mihai> TandyUK, I think you might need to
use a script to make any changes after the whole preseed is done.
it's been ages since I last used it, but for me exactly that
part took forever and I gave up on the idea. might've been
jessie or something like that, things most likely changed by now
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1649 [11:52:24] <TandyUK> im doing this on jessie
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1653 [11:53:11] <TandyUK> the problem is our final script is a
'run this ansible playbook' script, and without the nic
being configured for the correct (non-dhcp) subnet, it cant access
the ansible repo
1654 [11:53:31] <TandyUK> and i cant figure out how to supply and
run more than 1 script
1655 [11:53:49] <sorin-mihai> make it available on the dhcp subnet
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1672 [12:01:47] <guest___> i need to select debian desktop
environment ? or gnome only or both ?
1673 [12:01:56] *** Quits: Madda (~Madda@replaced-ip##) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: ##replaced-url
1674 [12:02:23] <guest___> what is debian desktop environment ?
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1679 [12:03:47] <Sveta> guest___: desktop is a name for the
interface that you see after you log in.
1680 [12:03:59] <Sveta> guest___: without a desktop, you only get
a command line interface.
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1683 [12:04:34] <Sveta> guest___: if you can, look up 'debian
gnome screenshot' on the web, or read wikipedia articles which
say what these desktops are known to do well.
1684 [12:04:41] <bites> guest___: you can select either or both.
doen't make a difference. if you only select debian desktop
environment, gnome will be installed.
1685 [12:05:00] <Sveta> guest___: you can select several to try,
and remove them later
1686 [12:05:11] <guest___> thx
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1689 [12:06:11] <bites> to be honest, i don't understand why
debian desktop is its own selection in the installer.
1690 [12:06:21] *** Parts: dynek (~dynek@replaced-ip ) ()
1691 [12:06:23] <bites> it's just confusing.
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remember that this is the internet)
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1694 [12:07:21] <babilen> Historic wart (we used to only have a
'desktop' offering)
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1727 [12:27:36] <TandyUK>
replaced-url
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1729 [12:27:52] <TandyUK> on the installed system, ip and netmask
are set, but its not giving me a gateway or nameserver
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1731 [12:28:40] <TandyUK> well there is a dns server in
/etc/resolv.conf, but thats looks very much like it was obtained by
dhcp
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1738 [12:30:55] *** Joins: tobiasBora (~tobiasBor@replaced-ip )
1739 [12:30:59] <tobiasBora> Hello,
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1750 [12:33:19] <tobiasBora> I'd like to know, can you
recommend a decent tool, like exim for example, that would allow me
to send mail through smtp, which works for non-root users, and deal
with a queue of messages so that I can send messages offline?
1751 [12:33:20] *** Joins: plasmoduck (~cjg@replaced-ip )
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1757 [12:35:19] *** Joins: guest___ (dfbc5031@replaced-ip )
1758 [12:35:40] <guest___> i did fresh install debian on whole
disk buit still i can see ubuntu
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1760 [12:36:09] *** Joins: NightTrain (~coffee@replaced-ip )
1761 [12:36:36] <guest___> when i start my laptop it enters intu
grub(command line)
1762 [12:36:41] <guest___> into
1763 [12:37:26] *** Joins: juiprecma93 (252dceed@replaced-ip )
1764 [12:37:52] <guest___> in boot manager i can see os boot
manager ufei ubuntu and debian
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1766 [12:39:18] *** zigacom93 is now known as adnhypal95
1767 [12:39:26] <babilen> tobiasBora: msmtp + msmtpq
1768 [12:39:44] *** Quits: thunderrd (~thunderrd@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
1769 [12:39:48] <at0m> guest___: but does the ubuntu still boot?
or, can you see its partition when you've booted? if not, that
can probably be fixed running grub installer again.
1770 [12:40:01] *** Joins: thunderrd (~thunderrd@replaced-ip )
1771 [12:40:03] <guest___> at0m: no ubuntu dont boot
1772 [12:40:07] *** Joins: zamuro_ (~Samantha@replaced-ip )
1773 [12:40:24] <guest___> how to run grub installer ?
1774 [12:40:38] *** adnhypal95 is now known as diasmokhigh98
1775 [12:41:11] <at0m> dpkg: tell guest about fixmbr
1776 [12:41:12] *** Joins: deicide- (~deicide-@replaced-ip )
1777 [12:41:26] <at0m> dpkg: tell guest___ about fixmbr
1778 [12:41:58] *** diasmokhigh98 is now known as imande94
1779 [12:42:05] <babilen> tobiasBora:
replaced-url
1780 [12:42:29] <tobiasBora> babilen: thank you. So I guess I
can't find it in any package manager
1781 [12:43:04] <babilen> Not the queue script
1782 [12:43:11] <guest___> at0m: can i use install iso as live ?
1783 [12:43:17] *** imande94 is now known as repona96
1784 [12:43:25] <babilen> tobiasBora: msmtp is packaged
1785 [12:43:30] *** Quits: kambei (~kambei@replaced-ip ) (Quit: kambei)
1786 [12:43:35] <tobiasBora> babilen: ohhh, I just realize that
mstpq was in the nix package ^^
1787 [12:43:43] <tobiasBora> thank you!
1788 [12:43:43] *** Joins: WhatisRT (~whatisrt@replaced-ip )
1789 [12:44:07] <babilen> tobiasBora: Ah, msmtpq can be found in
/usr/share/doc/msmtp/examples/
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1792 [12:44:21] <tobiasBora> babilen: funny
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1798 [12:44:39] *** repona96 is now known as jingzingang91
1799 [12:45:05] <babilen> msmtp-gnome package has keyring support
if you like to use that
1800 [12:45:33] <tobiasBora> babilen: I will use passwordeval and
gpg manually I think
1801 [12:45:46] <tobiasBora> (I don't like to add useless
dependencies)
1802 [12:46:00] *** jingzingang91 is now known as blowerqui92
1803 [12:46:01] <at0m> guest___: no, point grub to your debian
install disk: update-grub && grub-install /dev/installdisk
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1806 [12:46:28] <at0m> guest___: where /dev/installdisk probably
is /dev/sda
1807 [12:47:10] <at0m> guest___: you can run that from within your
debian installation, without usbdisk/CD connected
1808 [12:47:18] *** blowerqui92 is now known as dreadcentva91
1809 [12:48:18] <babilen> tobiasBora: sure, use whatever works for
you. Just thought I'd mention it in case you have the keyring
running already. :)
1810 [12:48:19] <tobiasBora> babilen: in the man of msmtp, I can
read "Remote Message Queue Starting mode:" Is it supposed
to be plugged into another smtp server?
1811 [12:48:36] *** dreadcentva91 is now known as subquimi92
1812 [12:48:42] <tobiasBora> babilen: sure, and thank you ;)
1813 [12:48:43] <babilen> Well, you need a "proper" smtp
server somewhere to send your mail
1814 [12:48:48] *** Quits: nighty- (~nighty@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke)
1815 [12:49:40] <babilen> If msmtp does not fit your requirements,
I might have misunderstood what you're trying to achieve
1816 [12:49:56] *** subquimi92 is now known as imibsa93
1817 [12:50:29] <tobiasBora> babilen: oh I think it does fit my
requirements, I just don't understand the difference between
the script msmtpq and the option I mentionned in the man
"Remove Message Queue Starting mode"
1818 [12:50:46] <jolt> tobiasBora: I think exim can do what you
are saying, together with mailx for the users to send with. Or mutt
or another email client
1819 [12:51:09] <tobiasBora> jolt: exim isn't supposed to run
as root?
1820 [12:51:10] <babilen> Sure, postfix can do that too
1821 [12:51:16] *** imibsa93 is now known as synchcari93
1822 [12:51:26] <alkisg> When my project is GPLv3, how bad is it
to use a small ":license: GPLv3, see LICENSE for details."
like
replaced-url
1823 [12:51:27] <alkisg> ...instead of the long GPLv3 license like
replaced-url
1824 [12:51:27] *** Joins: lankanmon (~LKNnet@replaced-ip )
1825 [12:51:30] <jolt> tobiasBora: the deamon that delivers stuff
yes, but thats different from sending
1826 [12:51:48] <babilen> tobiasBora: The service itself will run
as an exim user, but it would require you to configure exim (or
postfix), so that it can send your mail for you
1827 [12:51:55] <jolt> tobiasBora: you create the message with
mailx, who handles it over to the MTA (exim)
1828 [12:51:59] <tobiasBora> jolt: yes I know, but I may need it
on a lab where I don't have root access on it
1829 [12:52:05] <babilen> tobiasBora: Depending on what
you're trying to achieve it might be better suited than msmtp
1830 [12:52:06] <jolt> tobiasBora: Aha! Sorry!
1831 [12:52:22] <jolt> tobiasBora: I missed that tiny part. So no
package since you cant install it?
1832 [12:52:35] <guest___> uupdate-grub && grub-install
/dev/sda bash: command not found
1833 [12:52:37] *** synchcari93 is now known as mocontsib97
1834 [12:52:37] <tobiasBora> jolt: With nix, I can install any
package I like as non root ;à
1835 [12:52:40] <babilen> Both exim and postfix are overkill if
all you want is to configure another SMTP server that relays your
mail for you
1836 [12:52:40] <tobiasBora> ;)*
1837 [12:52:44] <guest___> i am typing that in terminal
1838 [12:53:02] <jolt> tobiasBora: well, exim only needs root to
listen to port 25. If thats not the case, then you can run that as a
user
1839 [12:53:05] <babilen> guest___: You're after
"update-grub" rather than "uupdate-grub"
1840 [12:53:56] *** mocontsib97 is now known as alerun91
1841 [12:53:59] <tobiasBora> oh really? Good to know then.
1842 [12:54:06] <guest___> babilen: i am typing update-grub
1843 [12:54:09] <jolt> tobiasBora: I have used nullmailer in the
past, should be fine as well. Might still need an external SMTP
server (because most providers block port 25 anyway)
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1845 [12:54:26] <babilen> guest___: As root?
1846 [12:54:28] *** Joins: Vizva (~Vizva@replaced-ip )
1847 [12:54:31] <tobiasBora> babilen: there is a big difference
between exim and msmtp in term of overhead?
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1850 [12:55:06] <jolt> tobiasBora: there are differnt
exim-packages, the smallest one should be ok, but I think nullmailer
is some hack in perl or something
1851 [12:55:09] <babilen> exim is a proper mailserver, msmtp is a
small program that forwards your mail to a "proper" one
(like exim or postfix)
1852 [12:55:17] *** alerun91 is now known as withdjupoc97
1853 [12:55:33] <guest___> babilen: entered that as root but still
when laptop boot it enters into grub command line
1854 [12:55:39] <babilen> If all you want is to configure
something local to use mail accounts you have elsewhere, then msmtp
is a good choice
1855 [12:55:55] <tobiasBora> babilen: ok thanks. I think I'll
stick to msmtp then, thanks!
1856 [12:56:00] <guest___> when i type exit , boot manager open
and still able to see ubuntu
1857 [12:56:35] *** withdjupoc97 is now known as centpita89
1858 [12:56:54] *** Quits: enoch85 (~enoch85@replaced-ip##) (Quit: Tech And Me - ZNC server 1.6.3 -
##replaced-url
1859 [12:57:27] <babilen> guest___: I think you completely lost
me. Earlier you were installing Debian and now you're
struggling with your bootloader. Something happened in between
1860 [12:57:46] <babilen> You should be able to run both
"update-grub" and "grub-install" as root
1861 [12:57:54] *** centpita89 is now known as marriwo93
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1863 [12:57:56] <babilen> If there are other problems you might
want to describe them
1864 [12:57:59] <guest___> babilen: yes i am able to use them as
root
1865 [12:58:03] <babilen> Having said that: time for lunch now
1866 [12:58:06] <guest___> it worked
1867 [12:58:27] *** Quits: frazr (~nik@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1868 [12:58:36] <guest___> but still ubuntu is present in boot
boot manager
1869 [12:58:44] *** Joins: HarveyPwca (~HarveyPwc@replaced-ip )
1870 [12:59:08] <babilen> Paste the output of both those commands
to
replaced-url
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1876 [12:59:31] <guest___> babilen: it is sucessful without any
error
1877 [12:59:54] <babilen> If it is successful, I don't see
what the problem is
1878 [13:00:06] *** Joins: platicus2 (~matrixirc@replaced-ip )
1879 [13:00:33] <babilen> There should also be additional output
(even if it isn't an error), that might shed light on what you
perceive to be your problem
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1884 [13:03:51] <XB23> hey all, how can i enable promiscous mode
on my lxcbr0 device permanantly?
1885 [13:03:56] <XB23> so after a reboot it dosent get unset
1886 [13:04:07] *** Quits: Rogalian (~cools@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1887 [13:04:18] <guest___> babilen:
replaced-url
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1904 [13:10:02] <bites> XB23: is using ifupdown, just put a
post-up line in your interfaces file.
1905 [13:10:16] <bites> s/is/if/
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1907 [13:10:29] <guest___> babilen: i am going to intall debian
again , can you please tell which is best ufei or leagacy ?
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1909 [13:10:56] <guest___> i think the problem is caused because i
created debian bootable pendrive by using ubuntu software
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1917 [13:14:29] <XB23> bites: i dont have lxcbr0 on my
/etc/network/interfaces
1918 [13:14:59] <bites> oh, it's lxc, i missed that#
1919 [13:15:45] <XB23> yeh :)
1920 [13:16:49] *** Quits: encod3 (~encod3@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1921 [13:18:40] <jolt> XB23: ip link set <dev> promisc on
maybe?
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1923 [13:19:02] <XB23> Yeh but how can i do that persistently
jolt?
1924 [13:19:06] <jolt> XB23: I'm not sure when that bridge is
up, but maybe you can add it to a after some other interfaces are
up?
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1926 [13:19:43] <jolt> XB23: worst case, create a systemd service
that does just that, at the last part of the boot. Or use
/etc/rc.local?
1927 [13:20:27] <XB23> i did add ip link set link dev lxcbr0
promisc on to /etc/rc.local
1928 [13:20:28] <bites> maybe lxc has a hook for things like that.
you could ask in #lxcontainers
1929 [13:20:30] <hanasaki> current version of gnome on debian.
screen lock enabled however does not start. thoughts on how to debug
/ cause / fix?
1930 [13:20:30] <XB23> but didnt seem to do anything
1931 [13:20:54] <bites> because it needs to run after the
interface is up. rc.local won't work for that.
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1933 [13:21:19] <XB23> ah
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1937 [13:23:09] <jolt> Do it with systemctl and after net.boot or
whatever that parameter is then
1938 [13:23:14] <jolt> or after lxc mayhaps
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1942 [13:24:32] <jolt> lxc.no_new_privs seems to be something in
lxc
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1954 [13:33:21] <XB23> no_new_privs?
1955 [13:33:46] <XB23> wonder if i just set a cron to run every 5
mins running
1956 [13:33:50] *** Joins: Asassin333 (Asassin333@replaced-ip )
1957 [13:33:52] <Asassin333> g
1958 [13:33:52] <XB23> ip link set link dev lxcbr0 promisc on
1959 [13:34:00] <XB23> would that be classed as really bad?
1960 [13:34:06] *** Joins: ahe (~ahe@replaced-ip )
1961 [13:34:15] <jolt> XB23: Ugly, make a systemdthingie
1962 [13:34:28] <XB23> How do I do that?
1963 [13:34:39] <Asassin333> anyone here want to join me in
plotting an assasination to kill Donald Trump= mesg me
1964 [13:35:02] *** Quits: coderphive (~coderphiv@replaced-ip ) (Client Quit)
1965 [13:35:31] <jolt> XB23:
replaced-url
1966 [13:35:40] *** Quits: rcdilorenzo (~rcdiloren@replaced-ip ) (Quit: rcdilorenzo)
1967 [13:35:51] <jolt> XB23: then systemctl daemon-reload and
systemctl start foo.service
1968 [13:36:00] *** Joins: rcdilorenzo (~rcdiloren@replaced-ip )
1969 [13:36:28] <XB23> Thanks
1970 [13:36:30] *** Joins: CrazyTux (~s@replaced-ip )
1971 [13:36:39] <Asassin333> lorenzo? lol what a name
1972 [13:36:40] *** Joins: encod3 (~encod3@replaced-ip )
1973 [13:36:43] <bites> enable if you want it to start
automatically.
1974 [13:36:45] <Asassin333> lozza
1975 [13:37:13] <XB23> fab, cheers
1976 [13:37:17] <jolt> what bites said
1977 [13:37:24] <Asassin333> sounds like some balding old
italian/spanish man
1978 [13:37:27] <CrazyTux> what's your opinion on Debian
stable based distro SolydXK?
1979 [13:37:32] <guest___> which is good for a new laptop , bios
or uefi ?
1980 [13:37:38] <guest___> no dual os
1981 [13:37:38] <XB23> so does systemd run after network devices
are up?
1982 [13:38:10] <Asassin333> my opinion? well id say its ok, just
needs a little more penache
1983 [13:38:16] <jolt> XB23: I guess
"After=lxc-net.service" maybe
1984 [13:38:27] <Asassin333> like more hooter pics
1985 [13:38:29] <CrazyTux> and what about MX Linux?
1986 [13:38:37] <jolt> XB23: Or just comment out the After thing
in the example
1987 [13:38:41] <Asassin333> MX rocks cocks
1988 [13:38:43] *** Joins: Kev- (~Kev@replaced-ip )
1989 [13:38:53] <CrazyTux> Asassin333, what?
1990 [13:38:57] <Asassin333> kinda gay
1991 [13:39:15] *** Quits: tkla (~tklassen@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1992 [13:39:19] *** Quits: Rogalian (~cools@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1993 [13:39:29] <meowtism> Asassin333: are you 12?
1994 [13:39:30] <jolt> !ops
1995 [13:39:30] <dpkg> Please invoke 'dpkg: ops
$problem' to call the operators to deal with a specific
problem. Misuse of this will lead to a ban. Operators can also be
contacted in the #debian-ops channel.
1996 [13:39:32] <jelly> CrazyTux: well you're asking in
#debian and not #solydxk or #mxlinux so
1997 [13:39:33] <Asassin333> MX Linux- wotever that is
1998 [13:39:39] <jim> hmmm.
1999 [13:39:42] <XB23> Thankyou jolt :)
2000 [13:39:44] *** Joins: user_2314 (~user_2314@replaced-ip )
2001 [13:40:10] *** Joins: vNistelroot (~bitchx@replaced-ip )
2002 [13:40:12] <Asassin333> no im an 40 year old drop out who
still lives with my mum-- and im not joking i can prove it
2003 [13:40:26] <Asassin333> if ur surprised
2004 [13:40:27] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o jelly
2005 [13:40:28] *** Parts: Asassin333 (Asassin333@replaced-ip ) (requested by jelly (less cocks please))
2006 [13:40:29] *** ChanServ sets mode: -o jelly
2007 [13:40:41] *** Joins: MichaelOF (~michael@replaced-ip )
2008 [13:40:45] <jim> please spell out u as you, it helps people
(particularly new english speakers) to understand, at least, most of
what's going on
2009 [13:40:59] <jolt> dpkg: ops some cleanup perhaps
2010 [13:41:00] <dpkg> Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, LoRez, RichiH,
mentor, abrotman, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel,
zobel, themill, babilen, SynrG, jm_, somiaj, jelly, petn-randall:
jolt complains about a problem (see above)
2011 [13:41:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1630
2012 [13:41:04] *** Joins: Guest89064 (~quassel@replaced-ip )
2013 [13:41:07] <vNistelroot> hey guys, just installed debian9 and
virtualbox (manual)
2014 [13:41:11] <jelly> jolt: done, thanks
2015 [13:41:22] *** Quits: rcdilorenzo (~rcdiloren@replaced-ip ) (Quit: rcdilorenzo)
2016 [13:41:26] <vNistelroot> gui interface is huge, very huge, a
pain
2017 [13:41:32] <jim> vNistelroot, any good?
2018 [13:41:37] *** Quits: MichaelOF (~michael@replaced-ip ) (Client Quit)
2019 [13:41:41] *** Joins: rcdilorenzo (~rcdiloren@replaced-ip )
2020 [13:41:42] <vNistelroot> and im not able to resize it through
qt4-config and so on
2021 [13:41:45] <vNistelroot> sup jim
2022 [13:41:50] *** Joins: MichaelOF (~michael@replaced-ip )
2023 [13:41:54] <jim> hi
2024 [13:41:57] *** Parts: bipul (~7dodo.net@unaffiliated/bipul)
("Leaving")
2025 [13:42:01] *** Quits: MichaelOF (~michael@replaced-ip ) (Client Quit)
2026 [13:42:04] <CrazyTux> I really like Debian's stability.
It is rock solid. But, why don't you create a version of Debian
that is as out of the box and as appealing to new users, like linux
mint or zorin os?
2027 [13:42:20] *** Joins: MichaelOF (~michael@replaced-ip )
2028 [13:42:27] <jelly> CrazyTux: someone has to do that work.
2029 [13:42:32] <meowtism> CrazyTux: you are welcome to do it
2030 [13:42:44] <CrazyTux> I am a non technical end user.
2031 [13:42:57] *** Quits: darxun (darxun@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2032 [13:43:04] <meowtism> CrazyTux: there are many courses you
can take and advance your knowledge. its the beauty of opensource
2033 [13:43:09] *** Joins: darxun (darxun@replaced-ip )
2034 [13:43:15] <CrazyTux> I don't have the slightest
knowledge of programming.
2035 [13:43:19] <jelly> CrazyTux: debian devs and maintainers are
99% self-taught volunteers
2036 [13:43:24] <meowtism> CrazyTux: its a good time to start
2037 [13:43:27] <CrazyTux> ok
2038 [13:43:30] <vNistelroot> no one experienced this virtualbox
shit under debian?
2039 [13:43:39] <jim> CrazyTux, you could learn to alter gui
configs of various elements, and submit them to debian
2040 [13:43:42] <jelly> you can be one, and making nice themes
isn't programming at all
2041 [13:44:14] *** Quits: percY- (~percY@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2042 [13:44:15] <XB23> holt:
replaced-url
2043 [13:44:18] <XB23> jolt even
2044 [13:44:22] <CrazyTux> ok. But, distros like Mint and Zorin
are more than just nice themes.
2045 [13:44:23] <XB23> is that correct how you would do it?
2046 [13:44:30] *** Joins: tvm (~tvm@replaced-ip )
2047 [13:44:35] <jelly> CrazyTux: that just means more work :-)
2048 [13:44:47] <CrazyTux> ok
2049 [13:44:48] <jim> vNistelroot, so you're running a
virtualbox configuration tool?
2050 [13:44:50] *** Joins: daze (~daze@replaced-ip )
2051 [13:45:24] <vNistelroot> nope, just installed virtualbox as
always by hand
2052 [13:45:42] *** Quits: kernel-panic (~kernel-pa@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2056 [13:46:23] *** Joins: DalekSec (unit193@replaced-ip )
2057 [13:46:25] <jim> if you installed it by hand, would it be the
same as when you installed it all the other times?
2058 [13:46:45] <XB23> jolt: you still around mate?
2059 [13:46:45] <vNistelroot> sure, ive done it a lot of times!
for example debian 8
2060 [13:46:52] *** Joins: vbutnaru (~vbutnaru@replaced-ip )
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2062 [13:47:05] <jim> jessie
2063 [13:47:10] *** Joins: turfal (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip )
2064 [13:47:28] *** Quits: jadesoturi (~jadesotur@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2065 [13:47:29] <jim> in jessie, can you resize the thing you want
to resize?
2066 [13:47:51] <vNistelroot> nope, but it feets to your
resolution
2067 [13:48:27] <jim> in every dist you install vbox manually?
2068 [13:48:56] *** Quits: mmudd (~quassel@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2069 [13:49:01] <vNistelroot> yeah manually always latest version
2070 [13:49:12] <vNistelroot> the only thing changed this time
2071 [13:49:19] <vNistelroot> is a high resolution screen
2072 [13:49:51] <jim> I'm curious about something... I
believe vbox is available packaged for debian stretch... could you
try installing that and see if you can resize the part you want to?
2073 [13:50:18] *** Joins: Rogalian (~cools@replaced-ip )
2074 [13:50:21] <vNistelroot> im going to try that way instead,
let me check
2075 [13:50:31] *** Quits: hanasaki (~hanasaki@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving.)
2076 [13:50:36] <jolt> XB23: yes!
2077 [13:50:50] <jim> probably it's simply apt install
virtualbox
2078 [13:50:52] *** Joins: hanasaki (~hanasaki@replaced-ip )
2079 [13:50:54] <XB23> all good yeh?
2080 [13:51:20] <vNistelroot> if i do apt-get remove --purge, vms
remains on the host right?
2081 [13:51:24] *** Joins: phutchins (~philip@replaced-ip )
2082 [13:51:24] <jolt> XB23: I think so!
2083 [13:51:25] <XB23> jolt: so how do i make the service enable
on startup?
2084 [13:51:31] *** Joins: wrksx (~wrksx@replaced-ip )
2085 [13:51:35] <vNistelroot> i mean already vms on the disk
2086 [13:51:36] <wrksx> hey there
2087 [13:51:40] <jim> hi
2088 [13:51:51] <jolt> XB23: first, systemctl daemon-reload (to
pickup the new file), then systemctl enable <whatever you
nameit>
2089 [13:52:01] <wrksx> To my understanding the deb-src lines in
apt sources are use to grab source code for the packages
2090 [13:52:03] *** Quits: turfal (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip ) (Client Quit)
2091 [13:52:11] <wrksx> Is there any reason I need to keep them
around ?
2092 [13:52:20] <jolt> wrksx: If you don't build stuff, then
no!
2093 [13:52:39] <wrksx> That's what I thought
2094 [13:52:46] <wrksx> Going to comment them
2095 [13:52:48] <jim> wrksx, yes, specifically, debianized source,
that know how to build the software then build packages out of the
result
2096 [13:52:49] <jolt> But since the idea of debian is that its
free as in open source, it's important that they are there to
begin with
2097 [13:52:55] *** Quits: beaver (~none@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2098 [13:53:13] <wrksx> jolt, yes of course
2099 [13:53:20] <CrazyTux> can we install SAP ERP on Debian
stable?
2100 [13:53:39] <jolt> CrazyTux: That is more of a question to SAP
than Debian I think.
2101 [13:53:41] <CrazyTux> I don't need the support. I just
need to be able to install it and use it.
2102 [13:53:46] *** Joins: krabador (~krabador@replaced-ip )
2103 [13:53:46] <jim> well one reason to keep them is if you want
to alter them and keep your changes
2104 [13:53:53] <jelly> CrazyTux: maybe. But you want to run
commercially supported software on a supported platform to get
support.
2105 [13:54:06] *** Joins: jadesoturi (~jadesotur@replaced-ip )
2106 [13:54:08] <jelly> heh
2107 [13:54:22] <CrazyTux> I need that just for educational
purposes.
2108 [13:54:29] <jelly> so can you? TIAS
2109 [13:54:31] <jim> but if you just want to download them and
build them, you're right, there's no reason to keep them
2110 [13:54:37] <Fox> CrazyTux: debian is not in the list of their
supported distributions
2111 [13:54:51] <CrazyTux> yes. That is why I asked.
2112 [13:55:00] <CrazyTux> can it be installed on Debian?
2113 [13:55:06] *** Joins: beaver (~none@replaced-ip )
2114 [13:55:07] <Fox> use it at your own risk then :)
2115 [13:55:14] <wrksx> jim, your last statement confuses me
2116 [13:55:17] <jelly> CrazyTux: we don't know, Try It And
See
2117 [13:55:21] *** Joins: Murii_ (~vlad@replaced-ip )
2118 [13:55:27] <CrazyTux> ok
2119 [13:55:27] *** Quits: Voovode (~Alex@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2120 [13:55:38] <XB23> jolt: when you say what I named it, you
mean the name of the file in systemd?
2121 [13:56:18] <jim> wrksx, in fact, you normally don't need
the source at all, so you don't have to download it even
2122 [13:56:22] <CrazyTux> It can be installed on Redhat. So, I
suppose it can be installed on CentOS too.
2123 [13:56:39] <wrksx> jim, yeah right, prebuilt packages are
fine for me
2124 [13:56:51] <jelly> anything that works on linux can be
installed on debian if you're determined enough to fix all the
different bits, but that's not a useful answer
2125 [13:57:04] <wrksx> If one day the need arsise i'll just
need to uncomment these
2126 [13:57:07] <jim> one reason to keep a source, is if you want
to learn to package stuff
2127 [13:57:20] <wrksx> jim, jolt, thx
2128 [13:57:36] *** Quits: Thedarkb-X40 (~beno@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2129 [13:57:43] <jolt> XB23: yes. so lxc-promisc.service or
whatnot
2130 [13:57:47] <guest___> in leagacy mode why debian create ESP
partition ?
2131 [13:57:52] <jim> you're welcome... and, in the future
please expand thx as thanks
2132 [13:58:23] *** Joins: m0j0dj0dj0 (~punk3r@replaced-ip )
2133 [13:58:25] <vNistelroot> tried it with virtualbox-5.1 with
apt and same weird behaviour
2134 [13:59:02] *** Quits: lifeframe (uid290080@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2135 [13:59:12] <jim> so the packaged version doesn't fix the
problem you're experiencing
2136 [13:59:14] <jelly> jim: this isn't ##English, lay off
the language corrections
2137 [13:59:37] <jim> oh what channel am I on?
2138 [13:59:42] *** Quits: airwind (~belovent@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Lost sanity)
2139 [13:59:44] <jim> oh shit, sorryu
2140 [14:00:00] *** Quits: jrabe (jrabe@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Disconnected)
2141 [14:00:07] <vNistelroot>
replaced-url
2142 [14:00:39] *** Quits: Cyph3r_ (~Cyph3r@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2143 [14:00:47] *** Joins: jrabe (jrabe@replaced-ip )
2144 [14:00:51] *** Joins: bluenemo (~bluenemo@replaced-ip )
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2147 [14:01:48] <XB23> yes it works, how cool is that!
2148 [14:02:04] <XB23> so systemctl enable service.name - makes it
run on boot?
2149 [14:02:19] <guest___> is ESP partition required on legacy ?
2150 [14:02:29] <jim> no
2151 [14:02:34] *** Quits: electro33 (uid613@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2152 [14:03:06] <guest___> jim: then why debian defualt
partitioning create ESP ?
2153 [14:03:19] <jim> dunno :)
2154 [14:04:03] <jim> you can always manually partition, either
all of it or after doing some form of guided
2155 [14:04:38] <guest___> jim: can you please tell , i am having
120gb ssd and want to install debian 9
2156 [14:04:51] <guest___> and dont want swap as i am having 12gb
ram
2157 [14:05:05] <guest___> which partition to create manually ?
2158 [14:05:07] *** Joins: nighty- (~nighty@replaced-ip )
2159 [14:05:19] *** Quits: well_laid_lawn (~Jean-luc@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2160 [14:05:26] <jim> just manually partition, and add the
partitions as you want them
2161 [14:05:44] <guest___> jim: just / ext4 is enough ?
2162 [14:05:46] *** Quits: oish (~charlie@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2163 [14:06:41] <jelly> that'd be the minimum yes
2164 [14:07:07] <jim> well unless you want a separate /home or
/var or both... but yes, you should be able to install with just a /
partition
2165 [14:07:23] <jelly> you could still give it a 1GB swap or so
just to be safe from any lefotver kernel bugs
2166 [14:07:55] <guest___> jelly: swap partition is better than
swap file ?
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2171 [14:09:19] *** Joins: franck_FTE (~franck@replaced-ip )
2172 [14:09:20] <jim> a swap file should work fine
2173 [14:09:29] *** Joins: monksam (~monksam@replaced-ip )
2174 [14:09:41] <jelly> guest___: a bit, yes
2175 [14:10:10] <meowtism> guest___: depends on your disk, is it
an SSD or a mechanical one ?
2176 [14:10:21] <jelly> they said ssd
2177 [14:10:21] <guest___> ssd
2178 [14:10:29] *** Quits: user_2314 (~user_2314@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2179 [14:10:32] <meowtism> oh sorry :) thne what jelly said :)
2180 [14:10:56] *** Joins: briner (~briner@replaced-ip )
2181 [14:11:26] *** Joins: donofrio (~donofrio@replaced-ip )
2182 [14:11:37] <jim> well ssds differ in quality too... what kind
did you get?
2183 [14:12:19] *** Quits: HarveyPwca (~HarveyPwc@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2184 [14:12:28] <bites> would your recommendation depend on what
quality ssd they got?
2185 [14:12:35] <wrksx> Just read this on gitlab-runner online
install documentation
2186 [14:12:36] <wrksx> Since Debian Stretch, Debian maintainers
added their native package with the same name as is used by our
package, and by default the official repositories will have a higher
priority.
2187 [14:12:49] *** Quits: andrzejv (~andzej@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2188 [14:13:04] <wrksx> But I can't find that package with
the same name
2189 [14:13:27] <bites> ,v gitlab-runner
2190 [14:13:28] <judd> Package: gitlab-runner on amd64 -- sid:
10.7.1+dfsg-1
2191 [14:13:33] <guest___> ADATA SP580 Premier 120GB Internal
Solid State Drive
2192 [14:13:34] <bites> only on sid
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2194 [14:13:55] <wrksx> hum
2195 [14:14:05] <bites> the documentation was probably from when
stretch was still in testing.
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2197 [14:14:23] <wrksx> right
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2199 [14:14:33] <jim> bites, maybe... see, what they found out in
the beginning, is that the old original and crappy ssds would fail
with a particular number of writes
2200 [14:15:09] <jelly> jim: that was like 10 years ago, and there
are smart attributes for ssds now.
2201 [14:15:15] <wrksx> bites, anyway thx for confirming
2202 [14:16:01] <bites> my pleasure.
2203 [14:16:25] <jelly> they still fail, but torture tests
(running for years) show they fail lots _after_ the declared TBW
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2209 [14:20:31] <at0m> after running fstrim on a (recently
installed) machine lately, i noticed the excessively large trim size
it reported. then added an "fstrim -av" to a weekly
crontab. afaik that's ok for SSD's, right.
2210 [14:23:30] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o babilen
2211 [14:23:31] *** babilen sets mode: +b
*!*@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.45.206.237
2212 [14:23:31] *** bitttalkme98 was kicked by babilen (you should know
better)
2213 [14:23:33] *** babilen sets mode: -o babilen
2214 [14:24:16] <jim> ssds have gotten much better since then...
and, I dunno if I'd subject them to a swap or a log
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2221 [14:27:53] <babilen> *shudder*
2222 [14:27:59] <jelly> just a swap partition is completely ok, as
long as you take heed when the system is actuvely swapping all the
time
2223 [14:28:11] <cef> at0m: you could probably increase the length
of time if you're worried.. ie: start monthly or fortnightly
2224 [14:28:12] <jelly> and you'll notice that.
2225 [14:28:38] <jim> what would you do if you noticed that?
2226 [14:28:50] <jelly> but more RAM
2227 [14:28:51] <jelly> buy*
2228 [14:28:57] <jelly> or fix your workload
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2230 [14:29:43] <at0m> cef: weekly or indeed monthly are fine, but
no discard option and no fstrim schedule was not
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2242 [14:37:09] <guest___> all mirror says bad archive mirror
2243 [14:37:15] *** Parts: Ludox (~Ludox3@replaced-ip ) ()
2244 [14:37:26] <guest___> while installing debian 9
2245 [14:37:43] *** Quits: MichaelOF (~michael@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2246 [14:38:05] <greycat> Is your network interface working at
all? Is it wifi? Do you need non-free firmware for it? Did you
supply non-free firmware for it?
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2248 [14:38:37] <guest___> greycat: i am using lan , it was
working before powercut ,
2249 [14:38:39] <greycat> Does your Internet connection require
some sort of authentication?
2250 [14:38:55] <guest___> i am using same on my desktop too
2251 [14:39:00] <guest___> not required
2252 [14:39:38] <greycat> Then I guess you'll want to check
Ctrl-Alt-F3 or Ctrl-Alt-F4 (I don't recall which one) for logs.
Or go to Ctrl-Alt-F2 for a (limited) terminal where you can run
commands like dmesg or ip addr.
2253 [14:40:05] <guest___> thx
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2265 [14:50:13] <guest___> what are standard system utilities
while installing debian 9 ?
2266 [14:50:28] <greycat> all packages with priority
"Standard"
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2268 [14:51:32] <greycat> Things like host, lsof, ncurses-term,
...
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2272 [14:52:36] <guest___> where i can get complete list ?
2273 [14:52:47] <bites> aptitude search ~pstandard
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2275 [14:52:58] <greycat> Install Debian, and then look for
"Priority: standard" in /var/lib/dpkg/status
2276 [14:53:09] <guest___> can i install them after installing
debian ?
2277 [14:53:10] *** Quits: NetTerminalGene (~NetTermin@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2278 [14:53:10] <greycat> ... or that other thing
2279 [14:53:15] <greycat> guest___: yes, you could
2280 [14:53:30] <petn-randall> guest___: Yes, you can install and
remove any package, except maybe for essential packages.
2281 [14:53:39] <petn-randall> guest___: That's the whole
point of a distro.
2282 [14:54:03] <greycat> If you skip "standard" during
the install, you get an absolutely minimal essentials-only
installation.
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2284 [14:54:19] <greycat> Just enough to boot, get on the network,
and apt-get more stuff.
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2289 [14:57:05] <jelly-home> !standard
2290 [14:57:05] <dpkg> standard task is, like, a "task"
that should be installed on all machines during the installer stage.
It installs packages that are important, required and standard (i.e.
"aptitude install ~pstandard ~prequired ~pimportant").
Packages in the <essential> set are always installed. Also ask
me about <tasksel>.
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2294 [14:58:27] <jelly-home> ,i task-standard
2295 [14:58:28] <judd> No package named 'task-standard'
was found in stretch/amd64.
2296 [14:58:38] <jelly-home> ah right
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2317 [15:07:55] <JustASlacker> uh
2318 [15:08:08] <JustASlacker> any way to recover my crontab after
I did crontab -r =
2319 [15:08:31] <greycat> restore from your most recent backup
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2321 [15:08:37] <petn-randall> this ^
2322 [15:08:52] <JustASlacker> gnah
2323 [15:08:52] <jolt> lol
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2325 [15:09:37] <petn-randall> JustASlacker: you /have/ backups,
right?
2326 [15:10:04] *** Joins: TyzefOiD (~yaaic@replaced-ip )
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2328 [15:10:07] <jolt> I guess he wouldn't ask the question
if he had, just sayin'
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2337 [15:13:20] <JustASlacker> yeah, Im doing the bacula dance
right now
2338 [15:13:41] <JustASlacker> I thought maybe -r keeps the old
one somewhere
2339 [15:13:47] <JustASlacker> or something
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2343 [15:15:09] <Kolany> what is this page?
replaced-url
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2347 [15:15:43] <greycat> It's called a "URL
shortener". It redirects to some other page that has a larger
URL.
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better)
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2354 [15:18:23] <petn-randall> NSFW?
2355 [15:18:49] <greycat> He got K-lined, for whatever that's
worth. I didn't open it.
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2395 [15:36:53] <jelly> one can do
replaced-url
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2399 [15:37:47] <jelly> apparently it's an ip address
collector / decloaker for dummies
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2401 [15:39:17] <petn-randall> Oh, that spam. It's always
just to some "show my ip" site.
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2404 [15:39:40] <jelly> maybe. But maybe that site does something
more if you're coming from a specific target
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2407 [15:40:48] <greycat> At a bare minimum, it's not a
Debian question.
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2409 [15:40:59] <jelly> added to ASM.
2410 [15:41:11] <petn-randall> Hmm, altervista does allow creating
your own websites on a subdomain, indeed. But greycat is right,
it's offtopic.
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2470 [16:19:01] <guest___> unable to install grub in dummy , while
installing debian 9
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2477 [16:22:05] <babilen> guest___: Why would you have to?
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2479 [16:23:06] <guest___> babilen: setup was installing it
2480 [16:23:55] <babilen> Could you elaborate on the exact problem
you're trying to solve?
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2485 [16:25:20] <guest___> babilen: i was installing debian 9 , i
have not created efi partition , and i am not able to install
bootloader , efi partition is the culprit ?
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2489 [16:25:52] <babilen> Why did you not create an EFI compatible
partitioning scheme?
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2492 [16:26:05] <babilen> (like the one used by "guided
partitioning)
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2500 [16:27:38] <guest___> babilen: i am using Legacy mode
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2503 [16:28:12] <babilen> Why would EFI be a problem then?
2504 [16:28:34] <guest___> idk
2505 [16:28:37] <babilen> Or rather: Let me rephrase that: Why do
you have to tinker with this in the first place?
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2509 [16:29:16] <guest___> babilen: i am learning about linux
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2511 [16:29:45] <greycat> In Legacy mode, with no other OS on the
disk, you just install GRUB to the "master boot record"
(the beginning) of the disk. That's it.
2512 [16:29:56] <babilen> Sure, but when you install Debian it
also configures the bootloader in such a way that you can boot your
newly installed system
2513 [16:30:02] <greycat> The installer should do this all for
you, pretty much automatically.
2514 [16:30:25] <babilen> The question is: Why do you tinker with
it now? Has there been a problem?
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2516 [16:30:42] <guest___> greycat: need to create mbr partition?
2517 [16:30:48] <babilen> No
2518 [16:31:01] <greycat> No. The MBR is not a partition.
It's the literal start of the disk, just before the first
partition.
2519 [16:31:01] <babilen> It's simply the beginning of the
disk
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2521 [16:31:24] <guest___> babilen: i was getting the error , i
didnt changed anything
2522 [16:31:30] <babilen> Which error?
2523 [16:31:37] <babilen> And when did you get it?
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2526 [16:32:15] <guest___> after apt config
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2531 [16:33:14] <babilen> What happened after "apt
config" ?
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2535 [16:34:03] <guest___> i wa getting that error
2536 [16:34:09] <guest___> was
2537 [16:34:10] <greycat> WHAT error
2538 [16:34:20] <guest___> unable to install grub in dummy , while
installing debian 9
2539 [16:34:35] <greycat> DO NOT repeat what you said before. Tell
us the exact error.
2540 [16:34:55] <guest___> it was the heading
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2542 [16:35:05] <guest___> and this is a fatal error
2543 [16:35:12] <greycat> Do it again right now and then tell us
exactly what it says.
2544 [16:35:24] <domovoy_> hi
2545 [16:35:28] <guest___> i restarted the installation
2546 [16:35:39] <greycat> OK, then we'll wait until you get
there.
2547 [16:35:40] <domovoy_> using git-buildpackage, i "gbp
import-dsc --pristine-tar foo_version.dsc". Foo has fields:
'Format: 1.0', 'Source: foo', 'Version:
20180101+deb9u2'. I don't get any 'pristine-tar'
branch, i guess because format is '1.0'. How do i switch
to a '3.0 (quilt)' format? (with a pristine-tar branch)
What should be the version for my 'quilted' version?
(2018010+deb9u2-1, 20180101-1, 20180101-1+deb9u2, something else?)
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2550 [16:35:56] <babilen> Okay.. and you used "guided
partitioning" which you changed to not use a swap partition?
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2553 [16:36:08] <guest___> i figured it out , even after selecting
leagacy mode , installer is started in ufei mode
2554 [16:36:22] <babilen> domovoy_: I'd recommend to take
this question to #debian-mentors on irc.oftc.net
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2556 [16:36:51] <domovoy_> babilen> ok, i'll try that
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2559 [16:37:20] <babilen> guest___: It depends on your system - If
it boots in UEFI mode, the installer is started in that mode. Either
way "guided partitioning" should create the partitions
necessary for the bootloader
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2568 [16:39:54] <guest___> i have selected leagacy mode but still
installer boots in uefi mode
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2571 [16:40:19] <greycat> What do you mean by "I have
selected legacy mode"? Where? How?
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2573 [16:40:51] <greycat> If you want the installer to boot in
Legacy mode, usually you have to go into the firmware/BIOS and tell
it to do this.
2574 [16:40:54] <babilen> Besides: What's the problem with
UEFI? The installer and grub should work in both
2575 [16:41:20] <greycat> Also that. If the installer boots in
UEFI mode and if you aren't constrained by another OS on the
disk, just let it do a UEFI install.
2576 [16:41:21] <guest___> greycat: in bios , i have selected
leagacy
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2582 [16:43:32] <petn-randall> guest___: Do you already have
another OS on the system you want to keep?
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2584 [16:44:22] <guest___> petn-randall: no
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2587 [16:45:04] <petn-randall> guest___: Then I'd recommend
installing in UEFI mode. If you set legacy and it still boots with
UEFI mode, you didn't set it right. Consult the documentation
of your laptop/mainboard on how to do that.
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2689 [17:41:35] <donofrio> With Power5 (big endin - I believe)
replaced-url
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2695 [17:45:46] <somiaj> donofrio: are you trying to install
ubuntu? This channel is for #debian support.
2696 [17:46:29] <donofrio> I have ubuntu 16.04 but it's dead
end....used that link to show what hardware I have on this G5 tower
was all...looking for debian goodness
2697 [17:46:50] <somiaj> debian has dropped support for powerppc,
and it is no longer an offical port in debian either.
2698 [17:47:44] <somiaj> the only offical power ppc port is the
ppc64el, but I'm unsure on the details of this port.
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2702 [17:49:01] <somiaj> you might find some better answers in
#debianppc on irc.oftc.net
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2704 [17:49:36] <donofrio> ok I'll try
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2706 [17:50:20] <somiaj> here is the ppc64el release notes,
replaced-url
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2708 [17:51:38] <donofrio> somiaj, joining that channel now -
I'll take unofficial ports too.... ;)
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2722 [18:01:56] <MrK> Hi, I'm currently using Debian Wheezy
for my Redmine server and I know that it uses mysql 5.5 for its
database. I read that upgrading to Debian Stretch would replace any
mysql package with MariaDB. Would that have any impact to my system?
Thanks
2723 [18:02:11] <MrK> Here's the link I read:
replaced-url
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2725 [18:03:14] <donofrio> somiaj, so is my g5 tower a ppc64el or?
were you able to read my tinyurl link?
2726 [18:03:16] <petn-randall> MrK: Likely not, it's mean to
be a drop-in replacement that's developed by the people that
created mysql.
2727 [18:03:34] <petn-randall> MrK: However it's sensible to
make backups, and test it before putting it to production.
2728 [18:03:48] <greycat> It should be roughly the same as
upgrading to MySQL version 10 would be.
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2731 [18:04:19] <greycat> Or... huh, I guess the version numbers
are not the same.
2732 [18:04:20] <somiaj> donofrio: I don't know enough about
ppc hardware to say, why I pointed you to #debianppc on
irc.oftc.net, as you may find people familar with that hardware
there
2733 [18:04:29] *** Quits: danwellby (~danwellby@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Goodbye)
2734 [18:04:44] <petn-randall> greycat: Right. Have you already
forgotten that a bigger version number means better?
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2738 [18:05:36] <karlpinc> MrK: The thing to do if you have any
questions is to read the
/usr/share/doc/<packagename>/README.Debian.gz file. It will
say if there are any issues related to Debian, upgrading, etc.
2739 [18:05:37] <somiaj> donofrio: your paste seems to say you
were running a 64 bit kernel, so if I would to guess, I would side
on likely.
2740 [18:06:27] <petn-randall> greycat: That's why Chrome is
at version 66, which is better than the Linux kernel which
hasn't even reached 5 yet.
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2744 [18:07:04] <somiaj> what about 1:2 and 66? (:
2745 [18:07:07] <jhutchins_wk> MariaDB is definitely a fork of
MySQL and may not be 100% compatible, they are adding features.
2746 [18:07:18] <jhutchins_wk> Percona is committed to being 100%
compatible.
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2754 [18:12:43] <karlpinc> jhutchins_wk: Yes, but at least the
wheezy upgrade is 100% backwards compatible. Or so I recall.
2755 [18:12:46] <jelly> percona is also not in debian (but they
have nice packages of their own)
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2758 [18:13:07] <greycat> karlpinc: you mean stretch?
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2761 [18:13:33] <jelly> the wrost thing is their product is called
percona-server, so the server deb package is named
percona-server-server
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2764 [18:13:43] <karlpinc> greycat: Which ever Debian release
switched the default from MySQL to MariaDB. (Sorry if I got that
wrong.)
2765 [18:13:52] <jelly> karlpinc: stretch
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2768 [18:14:08] <karlpinc> I remember thinking "Better do it
now, in case later it's not compatible."
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2773 [18:15:58] <monalisa> Hi... How often are mailing lists
updated on the web? I look if my query is published or is being
rejected for some reason. I have fixed my email to plain text and 80
columns, but the latest web update shows the 11GMT.
2774 [18:16:24] <greycat> Depends on which list archive it is, I
suppose.
2775 [18:16:31] <monalisa> debian-user
2776 [18:16:37] <greycat> But which one?
2777 [18:17:06] <monalisa> debian-user@lists.debian.org??
2778 [18:17:14] <jelly> isn't it every 20 minutes or so
2779 [18:17:17] <greycat>
replaced-url
2780 [18:17:20] <jelly> or is that bts
2781 [18:17:34] <greycat> monalisa: Not which mailing list. Which
ARCHIVE of the mailing list.
2782 [18:17:41] *** Quits: thunderrd (~thunderrd@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2783 [18:17:47] <greycat> The one at
replaced-url
2784 [18:17:50] *** Quits: bitSt0rm (~manjana@replaced-ip ) (Quit: )
2785 [18:18:44] * jelly pours one out for gmane.org
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2796 [18:26:15] <monalisa> greycat: Surprisingly it is the first
time I send a query to a mailing list. What do you mean by archive?
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2798 [18:26:56] <greycat> There are web pages that show you the
messages that have been sent ao a mailing list over the years. This
is an archive.
2799 [18:27:01] *** Joins: mtn (~mtn@replaced-ip )
2800 [18:27:31] <greycat> One of the archives of the debian-user
mailing list is at
replaced-url
2801 [18:28:02] <greycat> It literally has the word
"Archives" on the page.
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2806 [18:29:11] <greycat> You can think of it like a log file for
the mailing list. "This is what happened in April 2015."
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2810 [18:30:54] <monalisa> Ok Greycat, I'm looking at
debian-user list for today... the update date has changed and my
message just appeared, probably my first message was rejected then.
2811 [18:31:06] <monalisa> Thanks greycat, jelly. :)
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2816 [18:34:32] *** Parts: monalisa (029a9594@replaced-ip ) ("See you soon! :)")
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2819 [18:37:12] <jhutchins_wk> Searching the archives can often
yeild solutions to known problems.
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2825 [18:39:43] <linuxconformer> is it possible to keep track of
all the processes a command makes?
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2923 [19:34:43] <blasen> hello. i have copied linux partition from
usb onto a harddrive. i have marked that partition as
'active'. trying to boot from that disk, it failed,
obviously unable to find the proper bootsequence. now it's not
the 'first' partition on that disk, could it be the reason
it fails? or what else would i need to care about in order to make
it work?
2924 [19:36:01] <greycat> When you boot from a disk in Legacy
mode, the system firmware/BIOS reads the code in the Master Boot
Record, at the start of the raw disk, before and outside of any
partitions.
2925 [19:36:19] <greycat> If all you did was copy a Linux file
system into a partition, then you also need to install the boot
loader onto the disk.
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2933 [19:40:13] <blasen> i used a tool to copy the whole
partition. so you say it has to be at the start of the disk? i
thought marking some partition as "active" would make the
bios look at this partition for the MBR .. or whatever it would be.
guess i'll try to move it then
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2935 [19:40:56] <greycat> *sigh*
2936 [19:40:57] <greycat> NO.
2937 [19:41:01] <greycat> The PARTITION is fine.
2938 [19:41:08] <greycat> The MBR is a SEPARATE THING.
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2940 [19:41:28] <blasen> oh ok.. so how do i make it work?
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2942 [19:41:46] <greycat> "man grub-install" is the only
starting point that I know.
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2944 [19:42:43] <blasen> is the MBR completely independent of the
partitions?
2945 [19:42:52] <greycat> Yes. In Legacy mode.
2946 [19:43:04] <greycat> If this is a UEFI boot setup then
it's completely different.
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2949 [19:44:42] <blasen> so with grub i can eventually make it
work, without making changes to the partitions or writing to them at
all. correct?
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2953 [19:46:28] <greycat> Most likely you will need to boot from
whatever actually works (your install CD or install USB device, for
example), mount the new file system that you just made, chroot into
that, and then run some sort of grub-install command.
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2963 [19:50:31] <blasen> the reason i ask is, if that's true,
then i keep the first partition on that disk (its not even linux) ..
when i can't keep the first parition there, i need to overthink
it.. thanks for help//
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2965 [19:51:13] <greycat> If the disk has an "EFI
partition" then you are probably dealing with a UEFI boot and
then what I said no longer applies.
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2968 [19:51:35] <blasen> ah ok.. no it has none. thanks for that
hint.
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2970 [19:52:16] <blasen> yeah that uefi shizzle adds an additional
layer of confusion, haven't had time to check out how it works.
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2977 [19:55:12] <blasen> could i have several partitions with
multiple OS installed with that UEFI setup? like having a bootmenu
to chose which to boot from? or would that be too easy? :>
2978 [19:55:22] <blasen> *sigh
2979 [19:55:30] <greycat> I am definitely not an expert on UEFI.
2980 [19:55:40] <blasen> alright. thanks a lot.
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3018 [20:23:32] <jhutchins_wk> blackes__: Yes, grub can manage
booting to multiple OSs on multiple partitions.
3019 [20:23:37] <jhutchins_wk> !fixgrub
3020 [20:23:37] <dpkg> To reinstall <GRUB> boot to your
Debian install disk/live CD, switch to the other console (Alt-F2),
mount your root filesystem (mount -t ext4 /dev/whatever /target ;
mount --bind /dev /target/dev ; mount -t proc none /target/proc ;
mount -t sysfs none /target/sys), chroot into it (chroot /target),
run "mount /boot/efi" on EFI and "update-grub
&& grub-install /dev/whatever". See also <rescue
mode>, <dual boot guide>, <supergrub>.
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3023 [20:23:58] <jhutchins_wk> blackes__: That ^ is the process to
(re)install grub to the MBR.
3024 [20:24:02] <guest___> after installing Debian , wifi not
working
3025 [20:24:35] *** Joins: NerdTheThird (~burek@replaced-ip )
3026 [20:24:57] <greycat> install the non-free firmware if your
device needs that (most do)
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3028 [20:25:34] <guest___> greycat: how ?
3029 [20:27:11] <greycat> Do you have ethernet to the system?
3030 [20:27:18] *** Joins: Adol (~user@replaced-ip )
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3032 [20:27:31] <guest___> greycat: yes
3033 [20:27:37] <greycat> Then probably with apt.
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3037 [20:28:58] <guest___> greycat: can you please explain
3038 [20:29:24] <guest___> greycat: follow it
replaced-url
3039 [20:29:36] <greycat> Identify which firmware package you must
install. Add contrib and non-free to your sources.list if it's
not already there. apt-get update; apt-get install firmware-whatever
3040 [20:29:42] <jhutchins_wk> blackes__: Oops.
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3042 [20:30:16] <guest___> greycat: i think on ubuntu was
installing something like wdcl
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3045 [20:31:11] <jhutchins_wk> guest___: You can find out what the
system's looking for with dmesg | less - serarching for
"wifi" or "firmware" might help.
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3047 [20:31:34] <jhutchins_wk> You can use lspci -nn to determine
what chipset you have and we can look up what driver and firmware it
needs.
3048 [20:31:44] <greycat> I usually start with "dmesg | grep
-i firmware"
3049 [20:32:03] *** Quits: Cuechan (~paul@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Cuechan)
3050 [20:32:05] <jhutchins_wk> That often points right to the
solution.
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3056 [20:33:44] <guest___> dmesa log
replaced-url
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3065 [20:34:52] <guest___> Broadcom Limited BCM43142 802.11b/g/n
[14e4:4365] (rev 01)
3066 [20:35:21] <greycat> ,pciid 14e4:4365
3067 [20:35:22] <judd> [14e4:4365] is 'BCM43142
802.11b/g/n' from 'Broadcom Limited' with kernel
modules 'bcma', 'brcmfmac' in stretch. See also
replaced-url
3068 [20:35:38] <greycat> Bleh. judd needs to say what firmware
too.
3069 [20:36:32] *** Joins: schu-r (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip )
3070 [20:36:39] <somiaj> the bcm cards can be annoying for the
firmware, since I belive the license prevents debian from
distributing it.
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3072 [20:36:42] <guest___> how to install it ?
3073 [20:36:58] <somiaj> usually a wired card is best, and
download the assoicated script from contrib to download the firmware
from broadcom
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3077 [20:37:43] <guest___> i am able to use internel on laptop
3078 [20:37:47] <guest___> internet
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3081 [20:38:51] <somiaj> guest___: one option, use the third party
module wl produced by broadcom,
replaced-url
3082 [20:39:32] <somiaj> if using the brcmsmac module, there is a
firmware package firmware-brcm80211
3083 [20:39:33] <greycat> The wiki page says to use
broadcom-sta-dkms for your PCI ID.
3084 [20:39:34] <jhutchins_wk> ! bcm43142
3085 [20:39:35] <dpkg> The Broadcom BCM43142 is a hybrid 802.11n
and Bluetooth 4.0 device. Its wireless LAN component (PCI ID
14e4:4365, incorrectly identified as BCM4365 by Broadcom's
proprietary driver) is currently only supported by Broadcom's
proprietary driver since version 6.30.223.126 (packaged for Debian 8
"Jessie" as broadcom-sta-dkms).
3086 [20:39:43] <somiaj>
replaced-url
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3090 [20:41:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1622
3091 [20:41:02] <somiaj> actually the wiki says your specific card
isn't supported, sounds like you have to use the wl driver
3092 [20:41:35] *** Quits: kallesbar (~kallesbar@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3093 [20:41:35] <greycat> It's listed under "This driver
is packaged for the Debian 9 "Stretch" release as
broadcom-sta-dkms."
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3095 [20:42:06] <tobiasBora> Hello,
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3098 [20:42:32] <somiaj> I just always find broadcom chipsets a
mess, so many different drivers and methods to get them....but yea
follow the instructions for the wl driver
3099 [20:42:42] <guest___> followed all inst . written in
replaced-url
3100 [20:42:45] *** Quits: sasukeskapa (~sasukeska@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
3101 [20:42:53] <greycat> Don't follow ALL the instructions!!
3102 [20:42:54] <tobiasBora> I'd like to know, how could I
remove the 1.1G of locales in /usr/share/locale that I don't
use? I tried localpurge and localegen-purge, but nothing is
removed...
replaced-url
3103 [20:43:00] <greycat> Follow the ones FOR YOUR DEVICE ONLY.
3104 [20:43:19] <guest___> thanks
3105 [20:43:25] <somiaj> tobiasBora: dpkg-reconfigure locales
3106 [20:43:37] <jhutchins_wk> tobiasBora: I would expect that
would work on Ubuntu, not on Debian.
3107 [20:43:44] <somiaj> tobiasBora: that should give you a menu
to select only the ones you want.
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3112 [20:45:31] <tobiasBora> somiaj: I tried this, but the
/usr/share/locale folder is still 1.1G big
3113 [20:45:50] <greycat> I would NOT expect
"dpkg-reconfigure locales" to remove data from /usr/share.
3114 [20:45:56] *** Joins: NerdThe3rd (~NerdTheTh@replaced-ip )
3115 [20:46:10] <somiaj> yea, I thought you meant generated
locales, I don't think you want to get rid of those, they are
the locale data provided by the software you have installed.
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3123 [20:48:53] <guest___> still something wrong with my dmesa log
?
replaced-url
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3126 [20:50:06] <somiaj> tobiasBora: I did find this, seems you
can have dpkg not install locales you don't want,
replaced-url
3127 [20:50:07] *** Joins: lord_rob (~robert@replaced-ip )
3128 [20:50:13] <tobiasBora> somiaj: greycat : well I really
don't mind to have russian, japanese or whatever, and my small
SSD lacks space...
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3133 [20:50:44] <guest___> greycat: is my intel gfx installed
correctly ?
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3136 [20:50:53] <somiaj> tobiasBora: my /usr/share/local is only
300megs here, but I think it is related to the amount of debian
packages you have installed and how much locale data comes with
them.
3137 [20:51:24] <tobiasBora> somiaj: mine is 1G, which is already
1/20th of my drive ^^
3138 [20:51:25] <greycat> mine's only 196M
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3140 [20:51:37] <somiaj> its going to be related to the software
you have installed
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3143 [20:51:46] <greycat> I suspect you installed a bunch of
crap^W^W^W desktop environment.
3144 [20:51:58] *** Joins: Cyph3r_ (~Cyph3r@replaced-ip )
3145 [20:52:00] <jhutchins_wk> guest___: That paste says exactly
what package is needed for the graphics.
3146 [20:52:04] *** Quits: SopaXorzTaker (~SopaXorzT@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3147 [20:52:27] <tobiasBora> greycat: I have only KDE installed
3148 [20:52:34] <greycat> voila
3149 [20:52:37] <tobiasBora> ahah
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3152 [20:53:01] <jhutchins_wk> 394M here with xfce
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3154 [20:53:17] <guest___> jhutchins_wk: how to install them ?
3155 [20:53:24] <somiaj> tobiasBora:
replaced-url
3156 [20:53:25] <judd> Bug
replaced-url
3157 [20:53:26] *** Joins: JohnDoh (~jeff@replaced-ip )
3158 [20:54:07] <jhutchins> 328M on this one, where I do music,
graphics, video editing, etc.
3159 [20:54:14] *** Quits: zerocool (~muhGNUdoh@replaced-ip ) (Client Quit)
3160 [20:54:17] <tobiasBora> somiaj: I think that when I ran the
first thing, I actually chosed to use path-include, and in your link
they say "wait the the packages are upgraded to free
space". And hopefully I need to do a huge upgrade today ! :D
3161 [20:54:21] *** Joins: zabow (~zabow@replaced-ip )
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3163 [20:54:40] <greycat> tobiasBora: does a --reinstall also
work, possibly?
3164 [20:54:41] <somiaj> tobiasBora: well stretch packages
don't upgrade that often, you may have to manually --reinstall
them
3165 [20:55:14] <tobiasBora> greycat: no idea, it may be a good
idea
3166 [20:55:30] *** Quits: cr1mson_king (~cr1mson_k@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
3167 [20:55:32] <tobiasBora> somiaj: no worry, I'm on sid and
I have something like 2000 upgrades to do
3168 [20:55:34] <greycat> should be fairly simple to test with one
package, and compare du output before & after
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3171 [20:55:56] <somiaj> tobiasBora: in the future you should
bring sid questions to #debian-next on irc.oftc.net
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3174 [20:56:29] <tobiasBora> (actually it's 2580)
3175 [20:56:44] <greycat> wooledg:~$ dpkg -l | wc -l
3176 [20:56:44] <greycat> 1254
3177 [20:56:47] <somiaj> that is why you have so many locales
installed, you have tons of packages...
3178 [20:56:53] <tobiasBora> somiaj: well most of the time my
questions are general enough to fit in both channels...
3179 [20:57:23] <somiaj> tobiasBora: still most here expect debian
stable, and this channel is mostly stable support.
3180 [20:57:28] <tobiasBora> and also with latex my doc folder is
huge (4.7Go)
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3194 [21:02:47] <jhutchins_wk> tobiasBora: Moral: If you want lots
of software, invest in a bigger disk.
3195 [21:02:57] *** Joins: rcdilorenzo (~rcdiloren@replaced-ip )
3196 [21:04:17] <jhutchins_wk> tobiasBora: 128 GB $54.95 on
pricewatch.
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3202 [21:06:04] <tobiasBora> jhutchins_wk: well I have a 1T disk +
a 20G SSD... I guess I can't put anything bigger on my laptop
;)
3203 [21:06:22] <tobiasBora> (I'm really wondering why I use
so much space...)
3204 [21:06:29] <greycat> So mount /usr/share from the spinning
disk...?
3205 [21:06:43] <greycat> Or just all of /usr maybe.
3206 [21:06:51] *** Quits: sasukeskapa (~sasukeska@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
3207 [21:07:51] *** Quits: Rogalian (~cools@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3208 [21:07:53] <somiaj> tobiasBora: 20Gigs is pushing the limit
if you want a full DE + stuff like latex, and other large software.
3209 [21:08:04] <tobiasBora> greycat: I have already /var on the
disk
3210 [21:08:07] <Tegu> that would put stuff like /usr/bin to the
spinning disk as wel, which could be undesirable
3211 [21:08:24] <tobiasBora> greycat: but /usr is not strange? For
me all programs are on /usr
3212 [21:08:38] <greycat> Do whatever makes the most sense.
3213 [21:08:46] <somiaj> anyways, that localepurge setting should
help, but I think over all the space you save from this isn't
going to be that significant with the total space you want to use.
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3215 [21:09:01] <greycat> I have no idea how often the stuff in
/usr/share is read by whatever programs you run.
3216 [21:09:20] <tobiasBora> somiaj: Well I created a LVM
partition for / that is both on the SSD and the hard drive, and I
installed latex quite late, so I guess that latex is on the spinning
hard drive ^^'
3217 [21:09:28] <jhutchins_wk> This VM with xfce is on an 8G
virtual disk.
3218 [21:09:53] <tobiasBora> greycat: ok thanks
3219 [21:10:01] <greycat> you have a logical volume that spans
BOTH devices? that's insane.
3220 [21:10:40] <tobiasBora> greycat: yes, what's bad?
^^' At some point I couldn't put anything more on the SSD
so I had no choice
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3222 [21:10:58] <tobiasBora> (ok maybe I should have manually cut
again /usr/something
3223 [21:11:01] <tobiasBora> )
3224 [21:11:01] *** Quits: jhutchins_wk (~jonathan@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3225 [21:11:05] <greycat> The obvious choice would be to have the
separate device as a separate volume group, with its own separate
logical volumes.
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3228 [21:11:48] <tobiasBora> greycat: and then I would have tens
of small mounts?
3229 [21:12:05] <somiaj> tobiasBora: in this case you have a mix
of stuff being on the ssd and the spinning drive, which negats a lot
of the affect of the ssd. This almost sounds like one of those
strange laptops that have a spinning drive with a small ssd for the
most used software, and needs some windows utility to nice utilize
both.
3230 [21:12:06] <greycat> Maybe. I don't know what
you're doing.
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3233 [21:13:46] <tobiasBora> somiaj: at the begining it was not
supposed to be like that, but 20G is small, and I've no idea
how to distribute well programs between two drives... Any idea if a
linux projet is suppose to let me do that?
3234 [21:14:11] *** Quits: rcdilorenzo (~rcdiloren@replaced-ip ) (Quit: rcdilorenzo)
3235 [21:14:14] <greycat> Linux lets you do whatever you want.
It's your computer.
3236 [21:14:29] *** Joins: rcdilorenzo (~rcdiloren@replaced-ip )
3237 [21:14:36] <jhutchins> somiaj: I believe the hybrid drives do
all the management in hardware now.
3238 [21:14:40] <somiaj> I don't think there is much linux
support for those drives to ensure the stuff you want is on the the
ssd and stuff you don't is on the spinning drive without a
bunch fo manual confguation.
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3241 [21:15:35] <somiaj> jhutchins: ahh. I'm unsure on such
hardware, as the one laptop I had that had something similar, debian
just didn't like running only on the SSD (even though it was
more than enoughs pace for what I needed)
3242 [21:15:40] *** Quits: rcdilorenzo (~rcdiloren@replaced-ip ) (Client Quit)
3243 [21:15:45] <somiaj> so I just got rid of the ssd part and
only used the spinning drive
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3246 [21:16:22] <tobiasBora> greycat: well I'm not even sure
how to share the same folder between two partitions...
3247 [21:16:27] *** Quits: trumee (~trumee@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
3248 [21:16:46] <greycat> tobiasBora: It's really easy:
DON'T!
3249 [21:16:49] *** Quits: NetTerminalGene (~NetTermin@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
3250 [21:17:30] <tobiasBora> greycat: so do you have a method to
say for example "let's put firefox and emacs on the SSD,
and libreoffice on the hard drive"?
3251 [21:18:09] <greycat> tobiasBora: No. I wouldn't do that.
That would be insane.
3252 [21:18:31] <jhutchins> !fhs
3253 [21:18:31] <dpkg> Debian follows the Filesystem Hierarchy
Standard. The filesystem is categorized by purpose, not application.
This allows, for example, the easy and efficient deployment of a
read-only /usr area across a number of thin clients. See
replaced-url
3254 [21:18:39] <greycat> I mean, well, unless you're not
using Debian packages for those things.
3255 [21:18:50] <greycat> If you're using third-party
distributions in /opt then you can do it.
3256 [21:19:13] <jhutchins> tobiasBora: So why not just upgrade
the ssd?
3257 [21:19:57] <OS-3859> !gamma
3258 [21:19:57] <dpkg> rumour has it, gamma is the third letter of
the greek alphabet or a high energy/low wavelength (since
they're the same thing, ask me about Planck's law) photon
3259 [21:20:08] <tobiasBora> jhutchins: well SSD are expensive
3260 [21:20:30] <tobiasBora> and I'm not sure if I can choose
any SSD since it needs to fit in my laptop
3261 [21:20:40] <OS-3859> !bob2
3262 [21:20:40] <dpkg> somebody said bob2 was a donkey abuser!, or
not your mother, or
replaced-url
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3264 [21:20:48] <somiaj> OS-3859: stop spamming the bot. /msg the
bot
3265 [21:20:50] <tobiasBora> and if I want to change something my
first goal would be my battery
3266 [21:21:12] <jhutchins> tobiasBora: 128 GB $54.95 on
pricewatch. Id you click through it's actually $34.95.
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3268 [21:21:53] <tobiasBora> jhutchins: the size is universal?
3269 [21:22:05] *** Joins: rangotail (~rangotail@replaced-ip )
3270 [21:22:07] <greycat> There are different interfaces, though.
3271 [21:22:14] <greycat> !ssd
3272 [21:22:15] <dpkg> Solid-State Drives are basically
nonvolatile RAM chips used for long term storage. There are at least
3 types: SATA (no problem), NVMe (no problem since Linux 3.3), and
eMMC (not yet supported). See also <ssd limit>
3273 [21:22:24] <somiaj> not really, some laptops use just a chip,
as opposed to a standard 3.5 form factor.
3274 [21:22:24] *** Joins: rpifan_ (~rpifan@replaced-ip )
3275 [21:22:43] <somiaj> my laptop I got a custom chip I had to
plugin
3276 [21:22:51] <jhutchins> Some also use a card, but all of the
formats should track a similar price.
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3279 [21:23:11] <somiaj> (that is if the laptops ssd is different
thant he spinning drive, you could choose to replace the whole
spinning drive, but then that could get expensve for 1TB
3280 [21:23:16] *** Joins: DrWatson (~DrWatson_@replaced-ip )
3281 [21:24:00] <tobiasBora> somiaj: well I already have a 1TB
hardrive
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3283 [21:24:28] *** OS-3859 is now known as OS-38594
3284 [21:24:31] <somiaj> yea, I'm just saying that your ssd
is most likely a small chip and not a full drive formfactor
3285 [21:24:47] <jhutchins> looks like 1TB is at $260.
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3289 [21:25:27] <OS-38594> man i thought this was #offsec
3290 [21:25:27] <OS-38594> sorry
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3295 [21:28:45] <jhutchins> somiaj: Was yours an actual chip or a
narrow card?
3296 [21:29:25] <somiaj> jhutchins: it was a chip on some form
board, but it was quite small, maybe like 4in by 2in
3297 [21:29:32] <jhutchins> Looks like those are PCIe.
3298 [21:29:35] *** Quits: jnavila (~jnavila@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3299 [21:29:57] <somiaj> maybe those cards have some standard, and
this was back with the jessie kernel, so maybe my issues was due to
the bots factoid about not all ssds being fully compadable
3300 [21:30:02] <jhutchins> Same price range as the 2.5"
3301 [21:30:06] <rant> the SSD in here is pcie
3302 [21:30:09] *** Quits: vivid (~ViViD@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
3303 [21:30:20] <somiaj> I was able to install on it, but there
was something about running the actual os that just didn't
work.
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3315 [21:37:13] <gordonthegopher> I'm on Sparky Linux Rolling
and trying to use snapd
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3318 [21:37:25] <greycat> so why are you here?
3319 [21:37:30] <gordonthegopher> Nice start
3320 [21:37:31] <gordonthegopher> Bellend
3321 [21:37:35] *** Quits: trumee_ (~trumee@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3322 [21:37:48] <greycat> !sparky
3323 [21:37:48] <dpkg> SparkyLinux is a Linux distribution based
on <testing>. It is not supported in #debian or #debian-next.
replaced-url
3324 [21:37:58] <gordonthegopher> Wow, what a welcoming IRC
3325 [21:38:07] <greycat> We welcome Debian users.
3326 [21:38:14] <gordonthegopher> All inspired by cbmuser I expect
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3349 [21:53:24] <roylaprattep> How can I configure postfix to
RECEIVE on port 465, not receiving... Thanks.
3350 [21:53:48] <roylaprattep> not sending* haha sorry
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3359 [21:57:02] <greycat> I'm afraid to ask, but ... receive
what?
3360 [21:57:14] <roylaprattep> Email?
3361 [21:57:19] <greycat> Can't be SMTP deliveries to your
domain, because those only go on port 25. There's no mechanism
to specify an alternative port.
3362 [21:57:28] <greycat> And submission is port 587.
3363 [21:57:45] *** Quits: shinnya (~shinnya@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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3365 [21:58:17] <roylaprattep> So it's impossible to receive
on port 465?
3366 [21:58:23] <roylaprattep> or 587...
3367 [21:58:45] <greycat> Make up your mind. Are you talking about
mail submission from your authenticated Windows users, or deliveries
from the whole world TO your users?
3368 [21:58:57] *** Quits: ehlodex (~quassel@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3369 [21:59:01] <roylaprattep> the whole world sorry
3370 [21:59:07] *** Joins: vital (~vital@replaced-ip )
3371 [21:59:08] <greycat> Then that's port 25, period.
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3374 [21:59:30] <roylaprattep> Ok. my sysadmin keep saying me
"no! its possible!"
3375 [21:59:35] <roylaprattep> keep saying him, no.
3376 [21:59:55] <greycat> Other sites would have no way to know
they should talk to you on port nnn instead of port 25. DNS only
permits specifying the MX host, not a port.
3377 [22:00:01] <somiaj> well couldn't you have a router
forward port 25 to port whatever....
3378 [22:00:30] *** Quits: uptime (alore@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3379 [22:00:35] <somiaj> why do you want to recieve on a
unstandard port, this sounds like an XY problem.
3380 [22:01:03] *** Joins: insans (~insan@replaced-ip )
3381 [22:01:07] <roylaprattep> cause my ISP blocking port 25.
3382 [22:01:29] <greycat> Then you'll have to host your
incoming MTA elsewhere, or get the ISP to lift that block.
3383 [22:01:59] <somiaj> roylaprattep: and this is really
recieving, you did correct with sending. Are you wanting to send
mail from your local machine?
3384 [22:02:08] *** Quits: dracc (~dracc@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
3385 [22:02:16] <roylaprattep> Nah, they block it only on
residential services.
3386 [22:02:23] <roylaprattep> business solution they dont block
it.
3387 [22:02:27] *** Quits: poteus13 (a2dc9882@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
3388 [22:02:31] <greycat> So they want you to pay them more money.
3389 [22:02:33] <roylaprattep> me and my friend were just arguing
on it..
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3391 [22:02:46] *** Quits: dendazen (~dendazen@replaced-ip ) (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
3392 [22:03:00] <somiaj> but you won't be able to fix the
recieving problem without using a different mail server outside this
network. Often your ISP will let you use their mail server, you can
setup fetchmail to pull the mail from the server and postfix to
relay off their server to send.
3393 [22:03:09] <roylaprattep> i told him i was on business
solution cause of port 25 blocked and no fixed ip address
3394 [22:03:26] <roylaprattep> he told me "what, you can
receive on port 465 or 587 anyway..."i told him, not sure
man...
3395 [22:03:34] <roylaprattep> than it dont stop arguing me.
3396 [22:03:37] <roylaprattep> i know im right.
3397 [22:03:51] <greycat> He is probably thinking that you're
talking about "receiving" submitted outgoing emails from
your users.
3398 [22:03:52] <roylaprattep> my email server is setted up since
7-8 years like it is, using port 25.
3399 [22:03:58] *** Quits: DzAirmaX (~DzAirmaX@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
3400 [22:05:00] <roylaprattep> no no, i told him it was my main
mail server that im using to receive every mail i need
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3402 [22:05:09] <roylaprattep> keep argiung me tho haha
3403 [22:05:15] <greycat> Just because you told him something
doesn't mean he understood you.
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3405 [22:05:23] <roylaprattep> yes he did.
3406 [22:05:29] <roylaprattep> i made myself pretty clear.
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3408 [22:06:03] <greycat> You've never been married, have
you....
3409 [22:06:15] <roylaprattep> HAHAHA.
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3411 [22:07:25] <roylaprattep> i told him, CLEARLY, we can't
receive mail from outter space/world on 465 or 587 port
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3413 [22:07:57] <Guest84913> can someone guide me towards the
creation of a script? Or function. I want a command to be run on
every file in a folder. So I do like ``command-alias
/the/awesome/folder`` and the command will loop trough the files
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3417 [22:08:30] <greycat> Guest84913: mycmd() { local f; for f in
"$1"/*; do ... "$f" ...; done; }
3418 [22:09:02] <greycat> or maybe for safety, change
"$1"/* to "${1:-.}/*"
3419 [22:09:13] <greycat> or add an explicit error check for
missing argument
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3427 [22:12:19] <greycat> ... oops, screwed up the second line.
Meant to say, change "$1"/* to "${1:-.}"/* (the
* has to be unquoted)
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3432 [22:12:59] <Aebian> ok, thanks greycat
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3436 [22:14:00] <greycat> error checking is probably the way
you'd want to go anyway
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3439 [22:16:14] <roylaprattep> greycat: So, if we think of that,
all mails are sent clear oevr the Internet.
3440 [22:16:22] <roylaprattep> over*
3441 [22:16:36] <greycat> That's a different issue. They can
either be cleartext or TLS-encrypted, on port 25.
3442 [22:16:46] <greycat> Depending on what the sending and
receiving MTAs support.
3443 [22:16:56] <roylaprattep> I am using postfix
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3445 [22:17:19] <greycat> If the sender is using tin cans and a
string, then they will probably send to you in cleartext, no matter
how fancy your end is.
3446 [22:17:30] <roylaprattep> Yeah.
3447 [22:17:33] <greycat> TLS is optional and requires both sides
to opt in.
3448 [22:17:37] <roylaprattep> Thanks man.
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3452 [22:20:36] <greycat> I find it helpful to simply assume that
all email transmissions are in cleartext, and anyone who cares to
has read your email already.
3453 [22:21:00] <somiaj> roylaprattep:
replaced-url
3454 [22:21:11] <greycat> If you've got something private to
say to someone, either encrypt it yourself before sending it, or use
a secure channel (which email is most definitely not).
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3456 [22:22:50] <misternumberone> hi, on multiple systems running
multiple versions of debian, one of which is the latest debian 9.4
stretch DebianLive CD image,installing the package grub2-common and
then running the command grub-mkrescue in any configuration that
includes the option "--compress" prints "Segmentation
fault" and exits
3457 [22:23:02] *** Quits: matto (~matt@replaced-ip ) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
3458 [22:23:35] <misternumberone> for example, sudo grub-mkrescue
--modules="lvm cryptodisk scsi ahci disk luks" --compress
xz -o floppy.img ./img, or alternatively simply grub-mkrescue
--compress
3459 [22:24:31] <misternumberone> all calls I have tested that do
not include "--compress" appear to work as expected
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3550 [23:06:51] <gordonthegopher> Back now I've installed
Debian Testing and Mate in a VM
3551 [23:07:14] <gordonthegopher> If I install a snap it
isn't added to any application menu (Brisk Menu or Mate
Advanced Menu)
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do nothin' 'cause I'm cute and furry)
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3575 [23:18:37] <jhutchins> !mate
3576 [23:18:37] <dpkg> The MATE Desktop Environment is a fork of
GNOME 2, available since Debian 8 "Jessie" (and also in
wheezy-backports). To install, ask me about <install mate>.
replaced-url
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3581 [23:23:05] <jhutchins> gormenghast: Have you restarted mate?
It might need to re-read the menu files.
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3583 [23:23:53] <AliceKelly> good morning
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3590 [23:31:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1598
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3602 [23:40:02] <AliceKelly> any idea how to get ntp to sync to
the internet
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3606 [23:44:20] <somiaj> AliceKelly: it should be doing that
automatically, also systemd in stretch has its own time sync tool
that could be running too
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3609 [23:45:50] <AliceKelly> i used dpkg, she explained it :)
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3614 [23:50:05] <jim> hi. I'm trying to mess around with
stretch's apache2.4 config, and what I'm told from #httpd,
is I don't have a vhost defined... where is the suggested place
for that to go?
3615 [23:50:57] <somiaj> you can put it anywhere you want
(almost), though I think the standard is to make a single file in
/etc/apache2/sites-avaiable for each virtual host, and then link
them to sites-enabled
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3618 [23:51:37] <jim> -if- this is an xy, the y is "try to
learn how to config apache2"
3619 [23:52:19] <jim> ohh ok
3620 [23:52:29] <somiaj> just like with the many foo.d config
directories, a lot of where you put stuff is orginizational
3621 [23:52:44] <bites> a2ensite <name> is a quick way to
create the link.
3622 [23:52:48] <somiaj> sometimes order that it is read by the
app matters, hence they do things like 001-conf1, 002-conf2, etc
3623 [23:53:15] <somiaj> and debian has a setup with
sites-avaiable and sites-enabled to allow you to quickly add/remove
virtual host config files to your server.
3624 [23:55:18] <jim> what's the
sites-available/000-default.conf for?
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3627 [23:55:54] <bites> it's just the default page that comes
with the package. edit as needed.
3628 [23:56:18] <jim> ok... sec.
3629 [23:57:26] *** Quits: dqs_gentoo (~dqs_gento@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3630 [23:58:06] *** Quits: Led_Zeppelin (~user@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3631 [23:58:15] *** Quits: yokel (~yokel@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3632 [23:58:41] <somiaj> jim: often times it is the fall back
configuration for any request to the ip whose name doesn't
match another vhost
3633 [23:58:43] *** Joins: dqs_gentoo (~dqs_gento@replaced-ip )
3634 [23:58:59] <jim> bites, so what I hear you saying, is that
when you install the webserver, it starts a default/sample?
3635 [23:59:04] *** Joins: michaelni (~michael@replaced-ip )
3636 [23:59:05] <jim> do I have that right?
3637 [23:59:11] <bites> ya
3638 [23:59:32] *** Joins: dendazen (~dendazen@replaced-ip )
3639 [23:59:35] <jim> ok, something's interfering with that
3640 [23:59:42] <jim> let me find out what
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context: nick names on moving displays as market values
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