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45[00:33:53] <p3ter> HELLO
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48[00:34:59] <petn-randall> hi p3ter
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50[00:35:56] <p3ter> GLAD TO SEE SOMEONE STILL USING OLD IRC CHAT
51[00:36:05] <p3ter> PETN-RANDALL
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58[00:38:04] <petn-randall> o_O
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72[00:49:32] <wr> what is the replacement now for gksudo on debian buster?
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113[01:11:24] <H2Q> hello, I installed mate desktop and it has only two resolution options that do not fit my display. I tried adding the right resolution via xrandr, but couldnt make it work. can you help please?
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115[01:12:14] <KNERD> Habbie: thanks for that command for the source info
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138[01:27:41] <ksk> wr: apart from usability I never quite understood the need to run GUI apps as root..
139[01:28:03] <ksk> I would assume nowadays fancy things like gnome use fancy things (dbus? I have no Idea...) to get some processes elevated?
140[01:29:23] <ksk> ,v gksudo
141[01:29:24] <judd> No package named 'gksudo' was found in amd64.
142[01:30:11] <ksk> wr: from the debian bugreport removing gksudo: gksu has been deprecated for years. The intent of gksu is to allow running apps with elevated privileges but the recommended way to do that is for the app developer to use PolicyKit to request elevated privileges for the specific actions that need done instead of for the whole app to run as root.
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146[01:30:56] <ksk> replaced-url
147[01:30:58] <judd> Bug replaced-url
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164[01:38:58] <wr> ksk, so how do you run them?
165[01:39:07] <ksk> wat?
166[01:39:28] <wr> ksk, like zenmap or wireshark GUI
167[01:39:45] <ksk> I just dont.
168[01:39:56] <wr> ksk, they need root i guess
169[01:39:58] * nevyn hopes su-to-root has died
170[01:40:02] <ksk> though I have looked at a tcpdump binary logfile with wireshark
171[01:40:18] <ksk> ,i zenmap
172[01:40:19] <judd> Package zenmap (net, optional) in buster/amd64: The Network Mapper Front End. Version: 7.70+dfsg1-6; Size: 696.5k; Installed: 2939k; Homepage: replaced-url
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175[01:42:22] <wr> ksk, replaced-url
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181[01:45:56] <ksk> dunno, sorry.
182[01:47:28] <ksk> wr: from googleing, there should be a binary you call from a DE which starts it with elevated privileges
183[01:47:53] <ksk> "Zenmap (as root)"
184[01:48:31] <wr> ksk, before i would run gksudo zenmap and would work, now have to see what works
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186[01:49:08] <ksk> "The proper, recommended way to run GUI apps under X with elevated privileges is to create a Polkit policy"
187[01:49:24] <ksk> it did "work" yes, but it was a huge security flaw by design
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190[01:50:24] <ksk> imho: dont use any software which is not capable of adapting to the new ways. indicates its unmaintained status somehow
191[01:50:41] <wr> ksk, by the way am using a xfce now
192[01:50:45] <ksk> as always, I might be mistaken of course, maybe ask the question again at another time - its 0200 am in europe right now
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194[01:51:43] <wr> ksk, irc is eternal
195[01:52:35] <wr> ksk, irc etiquette not to ask same thing again
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197[01:53:25] <ksk> nah, its only about the time in between asking. If time passed, and you think someone new is in there who might answer it, you can ask.
198[01:53:37] <wr> ok
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201[01:54:08] <ksk> like, there is no reason for your question to be repeated if nobody else talked at all - since everybody would still be able to see your question, etc pp ;)
202[01:54:11] <ksk> !smart questions
203[01:54:11] <dpkg> Asking the right question can be hard, and effective communication is easier if you give us extra information. replaced-url
204[01:54:26] <ksk> is the ultimate guide to IRC / talking to hackers ;)
205[01:54:55] <ksk> I am sure btw there is a solution to your problem, as it sounds like something many users would want to do. I just dont know it :P
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216[02:01:32] <nevyn> ksk: so su-to-root in desktop entries is deprecated?
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218[02:01:50] <ksk> I dont know what that is.
219[02:01:55] <Jiaming> don't think so
220[02:02:05] <ksk> should I repeat myself, and mention policykit again? :D
221[02:02:19] <Jiaming> sudo has to be setup
222[02:02:26] <nevyn> ksk: it's how you run things that need elevated privilages in debian
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224[02:02:51] <ksk> do you have details?
225[02:02:58] <nevyn> it's actually a shell script that evaluates the availible elevation methods availilbe.. gtksu, etc
226[02:03:31] <ksk> okay, that might be the reason its not in debian? :>
227[02:03:41] <nevyn> so if you have a desktop entry for a gui package mange
228[02:03:43] <ksk> ,v su-to-root
229[02:03:44] <judd> No package named 'su-to-root' was found in amd64.
230[02:03:56] <nevyn> it's part of menu
231[02:04:10] <ksk> ,file su-to-root
232[02:04:16] <judd> Search for su-to-root in buster/amd64: menu: usr/bin/su-to-root, usr/sbin/su-to-root
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234[02:04:48] <ksk> wr: maybe take a look at that, then. All the security implications for gksu apply..
235[02:05:07] <nevyn> or kde4su or sux etc
236[02:05:11] <nevyn> it's the best of a bad situation
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239[02:05:41] <nevyn> it makes it environment independant and gives the right utility if you're running kde or gnome
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247[02:08:26] <user2157> hi everyone quick question, hopefully simple. i have debian 10.2 on an HP DL380 server. it has 2 onboard NICs and couple add on intel NICs. the problem is that even with a fresh install of debian, the NICs keep getting renamed (line rename2 etc) and then they names keep changing with every reboot breaking my KVM bridging configuration, super frustrating.
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253[02:10:20] <user2157> ive searched everywhere and cant find and cant find an answer. the file /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules keeps being mentioned but that file doest even exist on my system
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255[02:11:18] <ksk> user2157: take a look here: replaced-url
256[02:11:22] <user2157> how do i totally remove any things changing names and leave the NIC naming just as default?
257[02:11:31] <ksk> should contain what you are looking for.
258[02:11:53] <ksk> not sure why its changing in the first place. mapping the NICs via PCI-ID seems to be the best approach as far as I know
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260[02:13:13] <ksk> mhhm, readin that article your namings should not change imho.
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266[02:17:59] <user2157> <ksk> i have read this, i havent sent any names (fresh install) and i dont see from article how i can prevent the NICs from getting renames to a name like (rename2 or rename6). ans for whatever reason the names are changing with each reboot. is it possible to disable renaming of the NICs altogether?
267[02:18:58] <user2157> if i run dmesg | grep eth is see something like [ 2.909464] bnx2 0000:05:00.0 enp5s0: renamed from eth0
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269[02:20:01] <user2157> how do i disable this nonsense?
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271[02:20:51] <tds> enp5s0 sounds like quite a normal predictable interface name - is that not stable between reboots?
272[02:22:25] <user2157> tds yes, i want the name to be the standard enp5s0, and no this does not change, however if i type "ip a" enp5s0 is nowhere to be found and instead there's like rename2 with the same mac
273[02:23:04] <tds> if you look through syslog or `journalctl -b` do you see any mention of rename2?
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275[02:23:48] <tds> afaik that should only happen when you have clashing names set statically in /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules or similar
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277[02:25:52] <nevyn> user2157: the naming of identical cards is non-deterministic due to parallel device discovery
278[02:26:10] <nevyn> user2157: you must use persistant rules to fix them by busid
279[02:26:14] <user2157> also as far as i know, you should be correct. however ive never set this, /etc/udev/rules.d/ directory is empty and ive freshly install Deb 10.1 and 10.2 and its dont the same thing
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282[02:27:40] <user2157> <nevyn> can re-naming be disabled altogether? i just want the default names such as enp3s0 etc
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284[02:27:50] <nevyn> those arn't stable
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289[02:30:30] <user2157> <nevyn> ok, noted. can someone please share a sample udev rule for debian 10? i only found 1 example and it wasnt very clear
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291[02:32:13] <user2157> UBSYSTEM=="net", ACTION=="add", DRIVERS=="?*", ATTR{address}=="54:52:00:ff:ff:de", ATTR{type}=="1", KERNEL=="eth*", NAME="eth0" does this mean the MAC address is the reference for the interface?
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294[02:34:41] <tds> user2157: it might be interesting to know what the renamex interface should be called using the predictable scheme - per that page, `udevadm test-builtin net_id /sys/class/net/renamex` should tell you
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296[02:36:13] <user2157> Failed to open device '/sys/class/net/renamex': No such device
297[02:36:13] <user2157> Unload module index
298[02:36:13] <user2157> Unloaded link configuration context
299[02:36:42] <user2157> also it says Skipping empty file: /etc/systemd/network/99-default.link
300[02:36:52] <tds> x was meant to be a placeholder for the interface name, rename2 or whatever it's called, look at `ip l` output to see them all
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306[02:42:30] <user2157> ok udevadm test-builtin net_id /sys/class/net/rename6 produces the line ID_NET_NAME_SLOT=ens3f1 i do not see ens3f1 in "ip l" only rename6 is it possible to remove this? or is there a utility to assist me with statically renaming the NICs? id rather not spend the next 3-4 hours figuring out the syntax of this udev rules file working on a remote server working with someone onsite
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308[02:43:23] <tds> does `journalctl -b | grep rename6` get anything useful?
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312[02:45:04] <user2157> the renameX assignment is changing almost every boot, ive never seen the ens3f1 names change with a reboot and would prefer just to leave it like that, i have no idea how to do that though because ive never set any rules and no rule file even exists
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314[02:45:53] <user2157> tds: is see Jan 14 01:05:58 hs1 kernel: igb 0000:0d:00.1 rename6: renamed from eth4
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316[02:46:37] <user2157> ive never set it to eth4 and would like to remove this if possible....
317[02:47:43] <tds> eth4 is the standard kernel name, that's fine, it's why it's getting renamed to rename6 rather than the correct ens3f1 name that's very odd
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320[02:48:20] <tds> if you've not tried already, i'd be inclined to make sure the box is up to date, and to rebuild the initramfs, and give it a reboot just to check if it comes back up in the right state or not
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322[02:49:06] <user2157> is it possible to prevent the kernel from doing this? this is the second reinstall (erasing the system drive) with debian 10.1 and now 10.2
323[02:50:06] <user2157> yes, its completely up to day, even its not working with a live DVD
324[02:50:11] <user2157> date*
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335[02:58:54] <user2157> i have a total of 7 NICs maybe thats why? 2 onboard, 4 port intel PCI-e and a single port 10Gb NIC. i remeber it did this before the 10Gb NIC was added
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337[03:01:41] <nevyn> user2157: so that's a udev rule using the mac of the device. I prefer not to do that. because if I have 8 identical boxes I prefer to use pci paths so that the nic naming is consistant across them
338[03:02:46] <user2157> could you please give me an example of a rule using pci path?
339[03:02:59] <nevyn> replaced-url
340[03:03:22] <nevyn> ACTION=="add", SUBSYSTEM=="net", KERNELS=="0000:03:00.3", NAME:="backup"
341[03:03:44] <tds> nevyn: surely using your own based on pci paths is no better than standard predictable names?
342[03:04:10] <nevyn> tds: so the pci paths are fixed. the discovery order is not
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344[03:04:51] <nevyn> also I like using meaningful names as soon as possible
345[03:05:12] <tds> i can't see why discovery order should matter (unless your bios is dumb and reports two cards in the same location or something)
346[03:05:12] <user2157> im confused as to why i cant even see the standard names,
347[03:05:21] <user2157> nevyn: thank you
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349[03:06:24] <nevyn> tds: so the standard names are for a class. or driver. if you have 2 pcie dual 1gig intel cards. the discovery order determins where iethgig0 vs 4 is
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353[03:09:30] <toruvinn> user2157, it's not kernel renaming it, it's udev
354[03:09:49] <toruvinn> user2157, there are rules that do that, and in debian you may wanna look at, hmm, gimme a sec
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356[03:10:09] <user2157> can i disable udev?
357[03:10:33] <tds> you can disable the systemd/udev renaming, but then you're back to the unpredictable kernel names, eth0 etc
358[03:11:03] <toruvinn> it used to be in /usr/lib/udev/rules.d/ i think, something with persistence, but i cant find it on my os ;-/
359[03:11:38] <user2157> right, i have no rulse, i just want to disable it
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361[03:13:33] <Freekid> chown nobody:nogroup' -> does it mean nobody will own the file/folder?
362[03:14:50] <user2157> it means its owned by nobody. i think its like a black hole
363[03:15:15] <user2157> nobody is actually a user
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365[03:15:46] <Freekid> So everybody is owner of that file?
366[03:16:16] <user2157> its like a blank system user
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368[03:18:55] <user2157> <Freekid> So everybody is owner of that file? no its not like that
369[03:19:11] <user2157> <Freekid> what are you trying to do?
370[03:19:44] <Freekid> give permission to users to access some files in /home/user
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372[03:19:59] <Freekid> any user
373[03:20:04] <user2157> via Samba or FTP or just locally
374[03:20:06] <user2157> ?
375[03:20:09] <Freekid> samba
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378[03:21:02] <user2157> these several ways to go about that, and largely it depends on how samba is already configured and how your share are arranged.
379[03:21:33] <Freekid> I did chmod 777
380[03:21:47] <user2157> in samba you can "force user/group" just for a single share
381[03:21:53] <Freekid> but everytime i restart debian it goes back to something else
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383[03:22:03] <user2157> yes
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386[03:22:40] <user2157> exactly, samba should really be made to follow the Ext4 permissions in most cases
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390[03:23:30] <user2157> can you explain exactly what you want?
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394[03:23:59] <Freekid> I want to edit /home/user the way i want via samba in windows
395[03:24:03] <user2157> as far as permission for read write, user/group etc?
396[03:24:32] <Freekid> the way = every way possible execute/read/write
397[03:25:10] <user2157> you want read write execute for every user and group?
398[03:25:19] <Freekid> yes
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400[03:25:40] <user2157> so what about this share itself? what are the requirements for the share?
401[03:26:10] <Freekid> no requirements
402[03:26:53] <Freekid> The problem is when I do 777 it works but after restart it goes back to something else
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406[03:28:41] <user2157> do you have force user and force group in you SMBconfig global?
407[03:29:34] <nevyn> user2157: you need the udev renaming really removing udev makes things worse.
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409[03:30:05] <user2157> nevyn: i figured that, thanks
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411[03:30:35] <user2157> nevyn: ill make static names as per your example, thank you so much for that!
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416[03:33:54] <user2157> Freekid: in /etc/samba/smb.conf under [Global] do you have force user or force group?
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419[03:34:27] <Freekid> No force user or group
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421[03:35:09] <Freekid> Ok I have to go somewhere now. Thanks for your time. I have to figure it out later user2157
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423[03:35:22] <user2157> ok, so put the following lines under the [share] settings: inherit permissions = no
424[03:35:48] <Freekid> ok write the lines ill keep a note
425[03:35:54] <user2157> sorry inherit permissions = yes, inherit owner = yes
426[03:36:24] <user2157> then set usermod g+s /path/to folder, DO NOT user -R
427[03:36:36] <Freekid> I was doing -R
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429[03:37:02] <Freekid> why not -R
430[03:37:10] <user2157> dont use g+s with recursive -R it means something else
431[03:37:33] <Freekid> thats it?
432[03:37:37] <nevyn> user2157: I think there's a hex/decimal missmatch between default lspci and udev rule requirements from memory
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434[03:37:43] <user2157> actually in your case you could use that, but normally i dont do that for samba
435[03:37:57] <user2157> you shouldnt need that
436[03:38:36] <user2157> Freekid: yes that it, try that, im very familiar with samba, so i could help you later if you need
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441[03:41:01] <user2157> g+s without -R means new folders will inherit group permissions, if you do -R it means something completely different, it mean the fill will be executed as the owner, as far as i understand, normally you dont need that and that's not really desirable in most cases. just make sure the samba user is part of the allowed group
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445[03:42:46] <user2157> i recommend using groups and others rather than throwing the owner around. typically the owner should really be the actual owner/creator
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448[03:47:09] <nevyn> /win 2
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482[04:26:32] <user2157> nevyn: dude your the man, totally fixed my issue. THANK YOU!!
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555[05:39:51] <Randolf> How can I get the newest version of Xen? It seems to be about .3 versions behind -- I'd like to get up to 4.4.
556[05:40:26] <Randolf> Or is it not available yet because getting it working is rather complicated?
557[05:40:44] <Randolf> Or perhaps Debian is moving away from Xen?
558[05:40:47] <Randolf> (I hope not.)
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565[05:58:05] <jim> ,v xen
566[05:58:06] <judd> No package named 'xen' was found in amd64.
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569[05:58:25] <jim> hmm, what package is it?
570[05:59:06] <jim> what cpu do you have?
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572[06:01:24] <Randolf> judd: You're probably interested in a package called "xen-system-amd64" -- I have this one installed: xen-system-amd64/stable,now 4.11.1+92-g6c33308a8d-2 amd64 [installed]
573[06:01:55] <jim> ,v xen-system-amd64
574[06:01:56] <judd> Package: xen-system-amd64 on amd64 -- jessie: 4.4.1-9+deb8u10; jessie-security: 4.4.4lts5-0+deb8u1; stretch: 4.8.5+shim4.10.2+xsa282-1+deb9u11; stretch-security: 4.8.5.final+shim4.10.4-1+deb9u12; buster: 4.11.1+92-g6c33308a8d-2; buster-security: 4.11.3+24-g14b62ab3e5-1~deb10u1; bullseye: 4.11.3+24-g14b62ab3e5-1; sid: 4.11.3+24-g14b62ab3e5-1
575[06:02:21] <Randolf> There's also 4.8?
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578[06:02:59] <jim> that one's probably older
579[06:03:01] *** ghost43_ is now known as ghost43
580[06:03:10] <jim> what cpu do you have?
581[06:03:37] <Randolf> I have an Intel CPU. I don't recall exactly which one. Everything's working just fine though.
582[06:03:46] <Randolf> I don't think 4.8 is as old as 4.4 though.
583[06:04:20] <Randolf> If it is, then maybe it's a fork?
584[06:04:34] <jim> run this: cat /proc/cpuinfo | nc termbin.com 9999 # to pastebin the cpuinfo
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586[06:04:56] <Randolf> I've got an Intel Core i7.
587[06:05:03] <Randolf> Why are you so interested in my CPU?
588[06:05:30] <jim> because I wanted to find out if your cpu can do hardware virtualization
589[06:05:34] <jim> and it can
590[06:05:42] <jim> so
591[06:05:59] <Randolf> Oh yes, it can, and I also have VT-d enabled.
592[06:06:11] <jim> you might consider using QEMU/KVM
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597[06:11:03] <Randolf> Yeah, I'm happy with Xen.
598[06:11:05] <jim> and the libvirt that works with it... linked with libvirt includes... virt-manager and virsh
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601[06:12:12] <jim> which version of debian are you running?
602[06:14:01] <Randolf> I'm using either 10.1.0 or 10.2.0.
603[06:15:56] <jim> oh ok, so: the packaged version of xen-system-amd64 you have available is 4.11.1+92-g6c33308a8d-2, and you can
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605[06:16:49] <jim> you could probably backport to 4.11.3, -or- you could enter into the adventure which is building it yourself
606[06:16:59] <Randolf> Yeah, that's pretty old. That's why I was asking about getting up to 4.4 (and then you mentioned 4.8, which I thought would be even newer, but then you seemed to indicate it was older?).
607[06:17:18] <Randolf> I did lots of building on NetSBD. I really don't want to go back there if I can help it.
608[06:17:20] <jim> umm
609[06:17:36] <jim> 4.11 is newer than 4.4
610[06:17:50] <Randolf> Was there a fork or something?
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612[06:18:29] <jim> dunno, the last time I used xen was like 17 years ago
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614[06:19:34] <jim> and I guess you're using the one packaged for debian 10?
615[06:19:36] <Randolf> So, I don't understand. It seems like version numbers are all over the place. You say 4.8 is older than 4.4, and 4.1 is newer than 4.4.
616[06:19:48] <Randolf> Yeah, the standard apt stuff, without any third-party repositories.
617[06:20:01] <jim> no, I must have misspoke
618[06:20:30] <jim> assuming there wasn't anything weird with version numbers,
619[06:20:33] <Randolf> I think 4.1x is very old.
620[06:20:55] <Randolf> I saw some documentation talking about 4.4 having newer features such as VT-d, but no mention of 4.8.
621[06:21:20] <jim> the oldest is 4.4, then the newer ones are 4.8 and 4.11
622[06:21:53] <jim> unless I miss my guess, 4.11 is -not- 4.1
623[06:21:55] <Randolf> Okay, it makes sense that 4.8 would be newer than 4.4, but 4.1 seems out of step here -- shouldn't it be older than 4.4?
624[06:22:08] <Randolf> Yeah, 4.11 would not be the same as 4.10.
625[06:22:16] <Randolf> I assume slightly newer too.
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627[06:23:14] <jim> assuming they did the expected thing with these version numbers, yes, 4.10 is (a bit) older than 4.11
628[06:23:42] <jim> (and 4.9 is a bit older than 4.10
629[06:23:47] <Randolf> That's why I'm asking if there was a fork, since you're saying that 4.1 is newer than 4.4.
630[06:23:48] <jim> )
631[06:23:58] <Randolf> What?
632[06:24:02] <jim> I'm not saying that
633[06:24:20] <joepublic> 4.1 <> 4.10
634[06:24:22] <Randolf> How is 4.9 older than 4.10?
635[06:24:32] <joepublic> how is nine lower than ten?
636[06:24:55] <Randolf> Sure, but 9 is more than 1.
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638[06:25:01] <joepublic> 10 is ten, notone
639[06:25:25] <joepublic> these are distinct numbers grouped by a . ; not single decimal numbers.
640[06:25:25] <Randolf> 4.1 is not the same as 4.10? This doesn't make sense, because the last zero is always optional.
641[06:25:27] <jim> I'm saying that the versions in order should be: 4.1 4.2 4.3 4.4 4.5 4.6 4.7 4.8 4.9 4.10 4.11
642[06:25:41] <Randolf> Damn, that's screwy.
643[06:25:59] <Randolf> Who the hell at Xen screwed that up?
644[06:26:03] <joepublic> 1 is not the same as 10 makes sense if you think abouot it in that context.
645[06:26:07] <jim> yeah, sometimes it is kinda weird, takes getting used to
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647[06:26:56] <Randolf> It doesn't make sense. I've always thought that .1 and .10 and .100 and .1000, etc., are all the same value.
648[06:27:07] <jim> so the middle number can apparantly have two digits
649[06:27:22] <joepublic> "Version four, release one" and "Version four, release ten" are not the same value
650[06:27:36] <Randolf> They should have made it 4.01 then.
651[06:28:00] <Randolf> Okay, so 4.11 is actually the newest then, and I don't need to worry about updating it.
652[06:28:21] <jim> think of it this way... the version is not actually a number, it's a -name- (but there is the next one and the previous one)
653[06:28:23] <Randolf> Whoever came up with that stupid way to number things is stupid.
654[06:28:32] <jim> ok
655[06:28:34] <joepublic> you can let 'em know at numberingplansuggestions@amd.com
656[06:28:56] <Randolf> Sorting those version numbers in a spreadsheet isn't going to work so well.
657[06:29:06] <themill> They are version strings, not version numbers
658[06:29:20] <themill> (and basically every single software project does this)
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660[06:29:27] <Randolf> Ah, so it's AMD's fault.
661[06:29:33] <jim> nope, not if you don't define what it means to increment and decrememt them
662[06:30:13] <Randolf> Thanks folks, I've learned something new here. If this is common use in the industry, then I'll just have to go along with it.
663[06:30:32] <themill> I'd suspect this convention pre-dates AMD being a company
664[06:30:44] <jim> I had a couple packages, and I used dates as the versions
665[06:31:16] <Randolf> Back in the 1990s I wrote NLMs (binaries for Novell NetWare), and they used .01, .02, .03, etc., in the version numbering.
666[06:31:35] <Randolf> I've been using this convention for quite a long time.
667[06:31:48] <Randolf> This screwed up my thinking today. Holy cow.
668[06:32:02] <Randolf> It's going to take me a while to get used to this.
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670[06:32:14] <jim> Randolf, yeah, it was a bit tough getting you to believe it :)
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672[06:32:49] <Randolf> jim: Sorry, I wasn't expecting it. I was all confused about 4.4 being older than 4.11 because I thought 4.4 meant 4.40.
673[06:33:28] <jim> ohhh, so all this time you've been wanting 4.40.something?
674[06:34:01] <Randolf> I'm not one to swear, but if I was I'd probably be making an entire brigade of sailors blush.
675[06:34:08] <jelly> printf '4.1\n4.10\n4.2\n4.4\n'|sort -V
676[06:34:10] <Randolf> jim: Yeah, I thought 4.4 meant 4.40.
677[06:34:25] <jim> ok, and so 4.40 is out/
678[06:34:26] <jim> ?
679[06:34:48] <Randolf> Well, I just assumed that the last 0 wasn't a factor.
680[06:35:13] <Randolf> I mean, I thought they were equivalent, that 4.4 would have the same meaning as 4.40 or 4.400.
681[06:35:45] <Randolf> Anyway, I see that's not how it works now. Logic has to be pushed aside when it comes to looking at version numbers for modern projects now.
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683[06:36:29] <themill> Note that the versions have two dots... they're clearly not numbers.
684[06:36:34] <Randolf> How common is this? Or is this like the stupid problem with the two US date formats of "DD-MM-YYYY vs. MM-DD-YYYY" versus most of the rest of the world who use YYYY-MM-DD?
685[06:36:39] <jim> so, you were assuming that version numbers would have a . and that . would act like a floating point... but actually, version -names- can nave more than one . :)
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688[06:37:13] <Randolf> Yeah, I was assuming they acted like digits normally do when they follow a decimal point.
689[06:37:20] <jelly> it's very common these days, IF the devs care to put out actual releases at all. see also: semver.org
690[06:37:20] <themill> Randolf: All debian version strings use this sorting (you split at dots)
691[06:37:32] <Randolf> There's two consecutive dots in a row in some version numbers too?
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693[06:37:49] <Randolf> themill: Okay, that's good to know there's consistency here.
694[06:37:54] *** Joins: xcm (~xcm@replaced-ip)
695[06:37:55] <jim> possibly, and I don't know of an example
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697[06:38:12] <Randolf> Is that AMD's fault too?
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700[06:38:54] <jelly> ,v apt
701[06:38:55] <judd> Package: apt on amd64 -- jessie: 1.0.9.8.4; jessie-security: 1.0.9.8.5; stretch: 1.4.9; stretch-security: 1.4.9; buster: 1.8.2; bullseye: 1.8.4; sid: 1.8.4; experimental: 1.9.5
702[06:39:10] <jim> I have no idea if it's AMD's doing or not
703[06:39:18] <themill> btw if you can cope with . in an IP address being a dot and not a decimal point, you can cope with it in a version string.
704[06:39:58] <jelly> which is why sort -V is also nice for ipv4 addresses.
705[06:39:59] <Randolf> Okay, well, themill mentioned that the period is the delimiter. If there are two consecutive periods then that rule would result in a missing digit.
706[06:40:13] <jim> before you settle into this, know that this is not the only way to put a version name together
707[06:40:26] <Randolf> themill: Yeah, the rule for IP addresses is clearly documented. I wasn't aware of this rule for version numbers in modern software projects.
708[06:40:42] <Randolf> jelly++
709[06:40:50] <Randolf> themill++
710[06:40:56] *** Joins: FuturePilot (~Fufu@replaced-ip)
711[06:41:07] * Randolf assumes there's a karma bot in this channel
712[06:41:09] <Randolf> jim++
713[06:41:41] <jim> dpkg, karma dogma
714[06:41:42] <dpkg> dogma has neutral karma
715[06:41:58] <themill> Randolf: this isn't really a modern thing btw
716[06:42:08] <jim> I guess there is :)
717[06:42:49] <Randolf> jim: Gee, what other formats are there? On the Novell systems the version numbers could be followed by a lower-case letter as well to indicate very minor updates. For example, 3.12 was older than 3.12a.
718[06:43:08] <nevyn> semantic versioning
719[06:43:10] <themill> Randolf: Debian's been using this as a way of doing version numbers for at least 20 years and it will have been a standard approach when adopted at the time.
720[06:43:25] <nevyn> if you really want to hurt you head gnu libversion or libtool
721[06:43:43] <nevyn> like version numbers that encode api deprecation information
722[06:43:49] *** Joins: civillian (~nick@replaced-ip)
723[06:43:49] <jim> Randolf, therefore, even there, versions were strings rather than numbers
724[06:44:06] <Randolf> themill: Okay. My guess then is that there were likely a number of different numbering schemes, and Debian plus many others have been gravitating toward this one.
725[06:44:15] <Randolf> jim: Indeed.
726[06:44:18] <jim> and maybe the . operates differently
727[06:44:18] <Randolf> nevyn: Ha!
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730[06:44:51] <jm_> and then there's epoch :)
731[06:44:52] <themill> Debian can only use one scheme because apt and dpkg have to know for all packages whether it's an upgrade or a downgrade
732[06:45:10] <Randolf> Yeah. That's reasonable.
733[06:45:49] <jim> so < and > have to be defined for version strings
734[06:46:22] <Randolf> Yup.
735[06:47:03] <jim> and evidently version strings can shrink
736[06:47:31] <themill> Randolf: the linux kernel has been using this scheme since 1994 and once again, it didn't invent it...
737[06:47:43] <jim> (that is, go from 1.0.9.8.4 to 1.4.8)
738[06:48:16] *** Quits: torbo (~user@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
739[06:48:35] <Randolf> themill: I haven't been using Linux that long.
740[06:48:39] <themill> replaced-url
741[06:48:58] <jim> -and- 1.0.9.8.4 < 1.4.8
742[06:49:40] <themill> (winver had the same rules)
743[06:49:41] <Randolf> jim: Okay, so it doesn't work quite like IPv4 addresses (1.1 == 1.0.0.1).
744[06:49:59] <jim> just wait awhile longer... if you do that, then you'll have been using linux for longer than that
745[06:50:18] <Randolf> Oh, I'm very happy with Linux.
746[06:51:22] <Randolf> I switched within the past few years on my laptop from Windows 10 to Ubuntu Linux. The reason was that Windows 10 kept b0rking itself beyond repair and into blue repair menus at boot. Switching to Linux, with WINE, resulted in all my applications running tremendously faster.
747[06:52:11] <jim> on an i7, they better :)
748[06:52:44] <Randolf> Oh, that was the CPU report from a system running Xen.
749[06:52:47] <Randolf> ...with Debian.
750[06:52:47] <jim> seriously, debian maints know how to compile things
751[06:52:53] <Randolf> I'm running Ubuntu on my laptop.
752[06:53:22] <Randolf> It's so nice, no more crashing, fast boots, fast shutdowns. My only regret is not dumping Windows for Linux earlier.
753[06:54:04] <Aebian> Greetings, I had my laptop running since yesterday. Now all the sudden my kde is frozen (aka mouse can't click a thing, dock does not respond) however alt-tab and keyboard still works. Any idea where I can check whats wrong?
754[06:54:43] <Randolf> Aebian: A quick question: Is it a wireless mouse? If so, check its batteries.
755[06:55:07] <Aebian> it's my laptops touch pad so no external mouse involved
756[06:55:26] <Randolf> Okay, so that rules that out.
757[06:55:36] *** Quits: bliv (~bliv@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
758[06:55:57] <jim> if you were to connect a usb mouse, would that work?
759[06:56:48] <jm_> does «xinput --list» still list it as detected?
760[06:57:01] <Aebian> II connected one, no change of issue
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764[06:58:03] <Aebian> xinput is not installed on my system aka command not found
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768[06:59:37] <Aebian> I mean I can access the shell fine and all that, it's just that the mouse can't click anything. Cursor is able to move and the DE will also show that the cursor is moving
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770[07:00:36] <themill> Aebian: from a shell can you run "kwin --replace"
771[07:01:12] <themill> if that's not enough, also try "kquitapp5 plasmashell ; sleep 5 ; kdeinit5 plasmashell &>> ~/.xsession-errors"
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773[07:01:50] <themill> (that's restarting the window manager and the plasma gui; I've seen this sort of behaviour with kde occasionally)
774[07:01:52] <Aebian> fatsl error while opening display localhost:0. Seems like it doesn't detect my active display
775[07:02:12] <themill> oh, do you have a konsole running somewhere?
776[07:02:15] <Aebian> I only have one, the laptop screen
777[07:02:41] <Aebian> I'm still connected in the GUI session. I could try to upon one
778[07:02:47] <Aebian> *open
779[07:02:49] <themill> yes, try that from within the GUI
780[07:03:11] <themill> Alt+F2 to get a run menu might work, depending on what is frozen
781[07:03:12] <Aebian> will within the gui I'll get that cannot open display error
782[07:03:23] <Aebian> in the shell
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785[07:04:47] <Aebian> nope, kwin replace didn't fix it
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788[07:04:57] <Aebian> did a export DISPLAY=:0
789[07:05:05] <Aebian> then restarted kwin
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791[07:05:49] <jim> you have a terminal window going, and there's a working shell in it
792[07:05:51] <jim> ?
793[07:06:00] <Aebian> yes
794[07:06:24] <Aebian> with two tabs open, one with irssi and one with just a local shell
795[07:06:38] <Aebian> that's how I chat here in irc
796[07:06:42] <Aebian> so yes
797[07:07:05] <themill> restarting plasma-desktop can be done the same way
798[07:07:09] <jim> oh, ok, so: that plus your networking is u;p
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800[07:07:24] <Aebian> well yes I was about to restart kde now
801[07:07:48] <Randolf> Thanks to everyone for helping me to understand the version numbering system. I appreciate your patience. Good night, and take care.
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803[07:08:15] <jim> Randolf, you too
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808[07:09:39] <Aebian> restarted kde, mouse is still frozen, very weird
809[07:10:04] <jim> oh, so the mouse won't even move?
810[07:10:11] <Aebian> it will
811[07:10:17] <Aebian> I just can't click anything
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813[07:10:30] <jm_> does xev detect mouse clicks?
814[07:10:32] <Aebian> after restarting kde and kwin
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817[07:11:02] <jim> run a copy of xev and see if mouse clicks are displayed when they happen
818[07:11:16] <Aebian> nope it does not
819[07:11:37] <Aebian> just did that, and only keyboard inputs are detected
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822[07:12:04] <themill> does xkbwatch show any modifier keys stuck down?
823[07:13:35] <jm_> next step would be to test with evtest then
824[07:14:00] <Aebian> xkbwatch doesn't show any stuck modifier
825[07:15:28] <Aebian> evtest recognies me touchpad
826[07:15:42] <Aebian> *recognizes
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828[07:16:33] <Aebian> even the button click it recieves and displays as such
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830[07:18:24] <jim> so, xev does not "hear" mouseups and mousedowns, but evtest does?
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832[07:18:45] <Aebian> yes
833[07:19:17] <jim> I think at least that rules out somethgin wrong with the hardware
834[07:19:22] <jm_> that's bizarre, anything in X logfile?
835[07:20:19] <jm_> or does KDE also use wayland?
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837[07:21:10] <Aebian> nothing special in the Xorg file but I guess I'm on wayland
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839[07:23:05] <Aebian> I'm on x11
840[07:23:25] <Aebian> did a loginctl show-session 3 -p Type
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858[07:36:02] <jm_> does xmodmap -pp print 1:1 mapping of buttons?
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862[07:38:45] <Aebian> yup
863[07:38:48] <Aebian> 1:1
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866[07:41:25] <jm_> then I'm affraid I have no other ideas, does logging out and completely restarting the session work?
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871[07:44:40] <Aebian> that will probably fix the issue I'm sure, works in the past
872[07:44:53] <jm_> wait, so it already happened in the past?
873[07:44:59] <Aebian> yes
874[07:45:08] <jm_> does it also happen with non-kde sessions?
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876[07:45:20] <Aebian> and I'm not sure whats causing it. Never tried with non-kde
877[07:46:40] <Aebian> I just thought it may be a one time issue and didn't asked here. Until it became clear that it is present again. Seems to only happen when the computer is idle for a long time
878[07:47:09] <Aebian> but I never stopped the time tbh
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880[07:47:26] <jm_> not sure if tools like xtruss or xtrace will help
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882[07:48:46] <Aebian> did a simple kde logout, issue gone
883[07:49:41] <Aebian> aka qdbus org.kde.ksmserver /KSMServer logout 0 3 3
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897[08:04:20] <bipul> Hi, after installing packages, how would anyone check which packages is upgraded ?
898[08:05:07] <tarzeau> bipul: /var/log/dpkg.log
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901[08:08:06] <bipul> tarzeau, Thank you for responding, between i have checked the logs either it says "half-configured" or "Installed"
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904[08:09:24] <themill> /var/log/apt/history.log is probably more useful
905[08:09:29] <jm_> there's also /var/log/apt/*
906[08:09:34] <jm_> yeah
907[08:09:37] <themill> moo
908[08:10:15] <bipul> okay thank you very much.
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955[08:57:57] <Freekid> hi
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971[09:10:52] <colo-work> ,v cowpoke
972[09:10:53] <judd> No package named 'cowpoke' was found in amd64.
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974[09:12:44] <colo-work> ah. devscripts.
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976[09:14:30] <user2157> Freekid: hello
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995[09:27:40] <Freekid> usermod -aG sudo user ; what does -aG mean? user2157
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997[09:27:56] <Freekid> add to group?
998[09:28:10] <user2157> yes
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1000[09:28:19] <Freekid> and -ag?
1001[09:28:25] <Freekid> small g
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1004[09:28:40] <user2157> big G
1005[09:28:51] <Freekid> there is no small g?
1006[09:28:54] <user2157> you can also use "adduser user group" i prefer this way
1007[09:29:12] <user2157> it gives confirmation
1008[09:29:30] <Freekid> 'adduser user sudo'?
1009[09:29:39] <user2157> yes
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1011[09:30:01] <zamuro> -G means secondary group, -g means primary group
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1014[09:30:17] <Freekid> thanks :)
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1017[09:31:01] <Freekid> Should I add any user into root group?
1018[09:31:32] <user2157> normally i never do that
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1020[09:31:46] <zamuro> You should either use sudo or add it to "admin"
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1022[09:32:16] <Freekid> admin?
1023[09:32:17] <zamuro> Preferably add it to sudoers.
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1027[09:32:46] <Freekid> Is admin group made by default?
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1029[09:33:20] <zamuro> Yup.
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1032[09:34:18] <jelly> Freekid, zamuro: there is no group named "admin" on Debian by default
1033[09:34:33] <Freekid> I was thinking the same
1034[09:34:38] <Freekid> cant find it
1035[09:34:44] <jelly> and that's ok
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1038[09:35:14] <zamuro> jelly It's "root" then?
1039[09:36:13] <Freekid> yes
1040[09:36:14] <jelly> zamuro: it best not to give advice about stuff you don't have direct experience with to other people
1041[09:36:31] <Freekid> root and admin is the same?
1042[09:36:47] <jelly> or at least verify it before saying something
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1046[09:38:13] <Freekid> Now that I have reinstalled debian have to figure out how to share /home directory via samba
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1048[09:39:19] <bs0d> Hi everyone. I am seeking assistance in configuring a WACOM Intuos Comfort CTL-4100WLK-N in Debian 10.
1049[09:39:41] *** Joins: iViLe (~bob@replaced-ip)
1050[09:39:44] <bs0d> This page replaced-url
1051[09:41:08] *** Joins: rtra (~rtra@replaced-ip)
1052[09:41:19] <bs0d> I've followed the guidelines and installed xserver-xorg-input package, but still can't configure the buttons. The configuration tool says "press a button to configure", I press it, and the tool doesn't recognize that express button down events. I think it might be related to the driver.
1053[09:41:29] <bs0d> but any help or advice will be appreciated
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1055[09:42:42] <jm_> I would first check which EV device is in use for it, then test it with evtest, then with xev if evtest detects everything
1056[09:42:50] <bs0d> oh, and I've forgotten to mention that xsetwacom tool doesn't recognize the device at all, it says no devices
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1058[09:45:01] <Freekid> ok what does user:x:1000:1000:user ,,,... mean?
1059[09:45:13] <Freekid> 1000 means what?
1060[09:45:18] <jm_> «xinput --list» and «xinput --list-props XY» show input devices and their device node, or simply look in /dev/input/by-id I guess
1061[09:45:40] <jm_> 1000 is UID, second 1000 is GID, see man 5 passwd
1062[09:46:59] <Freekid> What does this nobody group do? nobody:x:65534:65534:nobody:
1063[09:48:27] <colo-work> Freekid, `man 5 passwd?
1064[09:48:49] <Freekid> oh right
1065[09:48:51] <Freekid> thanks
1066[09:49:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1509
1067[09:49:16] <colo-work> "nobody" is just a default group Debian sets up for you, that's supposed to not have any "dangerous" privileges
1068[09:49:27] <colo-work> (much like the "nobody" user)
1069[09:51:31] <bs0d> jm_, is xinput supposed to be part of the distribution? I'm afraid I don't have it, I am getting command not found result
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1071[09:52:11] <bs0d> jm_, oh, I see it belongs to the xinput package, I can install it
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1076[09:54:51] <bs0d> I see the wayland-pad, -stylus, -eraser, -cursor. Everything looks good and relevant, however I am not sure if the express buttons must be explicitly named in this list, they are missing
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1078[09:55:33] <jm_> bs0d: wait, are you using gnome?
1079[09:55:43] <bs0d> jm_ yes
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1082[09:56:35] <jm_> bs0d: ok in that case I don't know if it will work the way it does under X server, you could still look in /dev and use evtest though
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1086[09:59:15] <Freekid> Ok so now I want to share /home/user via samba and user is in suduers list also I want to give /home/user rwex permission
1087[09:59:20] <Freekid> is it possible?
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1090[10:01:02] <Freekid> user is a primary group
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1092[10:01:59] <bs0d> jm_ thank you for your advice. evtest really helped me a lot. I see that it detects when I press my express buttons, which indicates that the driver is fine
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1094[10:02:19] <bs0d> jm_, the problem must have been in the GNOME configuration utility which doesn't recognize these key press events
1095[10:02:43] <jm_> bs0d: no idea which tools exist to test this under wayland, in X one can use xev to test input events
1096[10:03:17] <jm_> last time I needed to share something via samba, I added "user" to samba, shared it, then logged in as "user" and writing worked just fine
1097[10:04:27] <Freekid> so I have to add "user" in samba group? Did you set any password? jm_? I do not want to
1098[10:04:56] <jm_> Freekid: maybe try this replaced-url
1099[10:05:17] <jm_> Freekid: it had the same password as unix user "user"
1100[10:05:35] <Freekid> Last time I tried many thing from internet didnt work thats why I am asking here
1101[10:05:55] <Freekid> Did you set i or it was by default? jm_
1102[10:05:56] <bipul> How to extract eipp.log.xz ?
1103[10:06:02] <Freekid> *it
1104[10:06:31] <jm_> unxz or xz can decompress .xz files, or simply use a tool like aunpack
1105[10:07:05] <bipul> It's now working out.
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1107[10:08:00] <Freekid> I meant Did you set the password in smbd or the password was by default the unix password
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1109[10:09:02] <jm_> Freekid: I forgot that detail
1110[10:09:12] <Freekid> ok
1111[10:09:54] <jm_> this looks like it should work for you (it allows guest access, so no password needed) replaced-url
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1113[10:10:38] <jm_> not sure on writing part though
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1127[10:16:30] <user2157> Freekid: you need to create a samba password for each samba user using the "smbpasswd -a" command
1128[10:17:02] <Freekid> What if I do not want to use any password?
1129[10:17:13] <Freekid> Actually I do not want any passwd
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1131[10:18:25] <user2157> then make it browseable = yes and writable = yes if you want write
1132[10:18:48] <Freekid> but is it possible to share /home directory with read write execute privilege?
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1134[10:19:15] <user2157> consider using "hosts allow = 10.0.0.0/255.255.255.0" on the share without any "valid users"
1135[10:19:36] <Freekid> ok noted
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1137[10:19:58] <user2157> you will have to use "force user = root" and/or "force group = group" though
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1139[10:20:55] <user2157> you need to tell samba what user to use because your not providing a user during logon; that will never work.
1140[10:21:08] <bs0d> jm_ it appears I finally got to the root cause of my problem, and the problem is related to GNOME, not to debian nor wacom driver
1141[10:21:21] <jm_> bs0d: any solution?
1142[10:21:32] <bs0d> jm_, the issue is explained here replaced-url
1143[10:21:33] <jelly> Freekid: you'll mess up unix file privileges in your home dir. if you manage files remotely as root.
1144[10:21:47] <bs0d> jm_, thank you for assistance in solving this problem
1145[10:21:53] <jm_> bs0d: no problem
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1147[10:22:11] <bs0d> jm_ there are some workarounds involving creating custom scripts for xorg
1148[10:22:17] <user2157> not necessarily; but i wouldnt use root
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1150[10:23:46] <jelly> yes necessarily, they don't even have an idea why allowing write is problematic and writing ANY new file as root will make it unwritable for original user
1151[10:23:47] <Freekid> ok I will not do that
1152[10:24:12] <Freekid> SO I will use another user not root
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1155[10:24:47] <jelly> if you have a single user and most of the files in their /home/username, share just that and force that particular user. Or better share a separate data folder.
1156[10:25:11] <Notthatdolphinpo> What's the difference between Freenode's #debian and this one?
1157[10:25:41] <Notthatdolphinpo> Oops. Wrong network.
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1159[10:26:03] <user2157> force user = user can be any user that will have permission, if this a writable share use "inherit permission = yes" or use "inherit permission = no" with "directory mask = and create mask ="
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1166[10:30:33] <user2157> some other cool thing you can go is set usermod 770 g+s \\share\path, then inherit permission = no and "directory mask = 0770 and create mask = 0770" this allow a user to create a folder, that only they can then access, providing your using the valid users option
1167[10:31:42] <user2157> sorry the root share folder needs usermod 777 g+r "not recursive"
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1169[10:32:30] <jelly> and none of those are safe for a $HOME, ssh will stop working
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1171[10:33:08] <jelly> (key-based auth to that user, specifically)
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1173[10:33:58] <user2157> so if you want a quick way for any user to drop some files to the server, (like for backing up workstations or something) but dont want everyone else to have access; then this works pretty good. then you can give access to more global content using the group membership
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1180[10:36:36] <bipul> If i have to edit an .iso image with *many packages* i.e 50 Packages then how could i resolve it's dependencies? any idea?
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1182[10:37:25] <bipul> I want to push 50 Packages into .iso image, but i'm not sure how to take care of it's dependencies?
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1187[10:41:04] <diogenes_> bipul, with chroot and apt.
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1190[10:43:14] <bipul> apt sir
1191[10:44:17] <bipul> Since it's 50 Packages it might be possibility that a *dependency* package might get repeated.
1192[10:44:50] <bipul> So to over come such situation, what should i do? any idea?
1193[10:45:38] <jelly> bipul: make a base system chroot. make a repo with your packages. Try to install them all. See what dependencies get downloaded in addition to your own packages.
1194[10:45:46] <bipul> I just want or looking for the exact number of dependency packages need to install in order to install those 50 Packages.
1195[10:46:27] <jelly> do you understand the general idea?
1196[10:46:56] <bipul> jelly, Nice idea, and can i use git to upload those dependency in order to built & test every time?
1197[10:46:59] <jelly> to get "dependency packages need to install" you need a clean tiny system.
1198[10:47:22] <bipul> jelly, Yes, but could you give any examples or any link ?
1199[10:47:41] <jelly> it's an idea. You implement the details.
1200[10:47:56] <bipul> sure.. i will love to do that :)
1201[10:48:30] <jelly> you can use debootstrap to make a chroot, and whatever you like to make a custom repo. /msg dpkg debootstrap, /msg dpkg own repo
1202[10:48:36] <bipul> This one "make a repo with your packages" Any example?
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1204[10:49:01] <bipul> jelly, I have separate vm running in snapshot mode.
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1206[10:49:40] <diogenes_> bipul, last time i edited the Debian iso i 1. extracted the iso 2. extracted shuashfs 3. chrooted into the extracted squashfs 4. apt install (tons of packages) 5. re-build the new squashfs 6. re-built the iso.
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1208[10:50:16] <bipul> okay diogenes_ :)
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1228[11:05:19] <bipul> !shuashfs
1229[11:06:03] <bipul> diogenes_, are you sure your given process works?
1230[11:06:10] <rephlexie> bipul, have you crawled through git for custom deb iso scripts at all?
1231[11:06:27] <bipul> nops
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1235[11:07:12] <diogenes_> bipul, i wouldn't said if it didn't work.
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1237[11:07:40] <bipul> anyway i have no idea about this shuashfs , i would finish my process first
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1240[11:08:16] <bipul> diogenes_, Do you mind sharing your steps ? :D
1241[11:08:58] <diogenes_> bipul, ok in a moment.
1242[11:09:59] <bipul> :) Thank you, it might helps my life easy for a moment. :D
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1251[11:14:44] <diogenes_> bipul, replaced-url
1252[11:15:25] <diogenes_> you can replace 'diogenes' with 'test' or whatever.
1253[11:18:09] <bipul> okay
1254[11:19:57] <bipul> diogenes_, Thank you let me try out :)
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1257[11:21:44] <diogenes_> bipul, yw and come with a feedback on how it went, i did that many times, i created custom isos for everybody.
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1292[11:42:42] <user2157> diogenes_: thank you for sharing
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1295[11:43:15] <diogenes_> user2157, you're welcome.
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1307[11:49:12] <bipul> diogenes_, I hope this is a directory debian-live-10.0.0-amd64-xfce-nonfree-diogenes where you extracting .iso images ?
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1309[11:51:25] <bipul> diogenes_, And there are no /live/filesystem.squashfs inside my extracted image
1310[11:51:39] <diogenes_> bipul, yes after you extract the iso you get a directory so i renamed it to distinguish the original one from the edited one.
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1312[11:53:02] <diogenes_> bipul, because you're not usin the live image, look for squashfs in your extracted dir.
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1314[11:53:32] <bipul> yes i have searched inside it using find . -name "squashfs"
1315[11:54:08] <bipul> This is what i found inside ./pool ./pool/main/l/linux/squashfs-modules-4.9.0-8-amd64-di_4.9.144-3_amd64.udeb
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1317[11:55:45] <diogenes_> bipul, on some isos the name might fiffer but the filesystem is squashfs, look for the largest file 1Gb+
1318[11:55:57] <diogenes_> differ*
1319[11:55:59] <bipul> See here
1320[11:56:00] <bipul> replaced-url
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1324[11:57:16] <bipul> I'm sorry i have no idea :( what your saying.
1325[11:57:42] <diogenes_> you gonna have to give me the link to that iso but i gtg now, so later.
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1329[11:58:05] <bipul> lol
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1331[11:59:15] <bipul> just google it debian-9.8.0-amd64-netinst.iso
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1335[12:02:11] <Aebian> is sudo cryptsetup -y luksAddKey the recommended way to change a LUKS encrypted drive passphrase ?
1336[12:04:01] <jm_> bipul: this is totally different ISO, diogenes_ had debian-live image in mind
1337[12:05:43] <bipul> jm_, okay. But don't like to change the .iso image i would stick to [10-9].[0].[0]-amd64-netinst.iso
1338[12:06:16] <bipul> If anybody have any idea most welcome.
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1342[12:07:35] <jm_> I don't know where there are tools to manage that, I also know about live one only
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1345[12:08:14] <jm_> maybe inspect if apt-zip can help if that's still working
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1358[12:13:32] <bipul> The goal is to push all the 50 Packages into ./pool in order to install using preseed.
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1360[12:13:47] <bipul> Along with dependencies.
1361[12:15:14] <bipul> The problem i'm facing is with dependencies since i'm looking for exact dependency list required for 50 Packages.
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1375[12:21:59] <jelly> bipul: why are you still looking for that list? An hour has passed and making a chroot and a small repo with your own packages is 10 minutes work
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1382[12:27:57] <bipul> yes sorry i got distracted.
1383[12:28:28] <bipul> Just believe in document and believe in your skill. :)
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1427[12:53:13] <chikibum> will firefox be upgraded to 72.0.1 in the next debian release i.e. debian 10.3?
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1430[12:53:43] <chikibum> i know the unstable branch has already had firefox upgrade to 72.0.1-1 for the amd64 arch
1431[12:53:51] <chikibum> but not sure about the stable branch.
1432[12:54:02] <chikibum> can someone please clarify
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1435[12:56:18] <strongestAvenger> replaced-url
1436[12:56:27] <jm_> chihchun: unlikely as debian uses esr firefox releases for stable
1437[12:56:33] <strongestAvenger> if that's what youre refering to
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1439[12:57:09] <chikibum> jm_ thank you very much.
1440[12:57:37] <chikibum> strongestAvenger thank you very much once again
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1451[13:04:11] <jim> chikibum, /msg judd v firefox ...and... /msg judd firefox-esr
1452[13:04:43] <jelly> dpkg, cve lookup CVE-2019-17026
1453[13:04:43] <dpkg> Information about the security advisory CVE-2019-17026 may be found at replaced-url
1454[13:04:48] <jelly> chikibum: ^
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1458[13:05:30] <jim> you scared the poor bot away!
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1463[13:07:14] <jelly> chikibum: in short, firefox-esr in debian 10 already has security fixes for that issue applied
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1478[13:14:14] <yadiyada> Hello fellow humans, I have a question concering UNIX networking headers: Did DARPA develop the UNIX arpa/ headers? Because they developed ARPANET, maybe they developed arpa/ headers?
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1480[13:14:26] <chikibum> jelly thank you very much for posting the link. i am taking a look at it right now
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1488[13:19:19] <jelly> yadiyada: you might ask in ##chat or look if there's a channel for Unix history, or any one of the books about Berkeley socket interfaces. This channel is primarily for tech support.
1489[13:20:27] <yadiyada> Ok thanks, I'll do that.
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1492[13:20:55] <jim> I guess arpanet became the internet
1493[13:21:34] <jim> yadiyada, there is a bot, alis, that can assist you in finding channels on the freenode irc net. To get started, /msg alis help
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1496[13:22:01] <yadiyada> Thanks Jim!
1497[13:22:06] <jim> welcome
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1500[13:27:34] <chikibum> dpkk
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1517[13:46:43] <Kalirog> Hi, i'm trying to switch from win10 to a Debian stable.
1518[13:47:18] <Kalirog> Is there any link about optimization for gaming purpose ? (I did lower the swapiness and installed gamemode), i don't know if there is something more to do
1519[13:47:53] <ratrace> proprietary gpu driver if that's nvidia (some say even if amdgpu)
1520[13:48:18] <dreamer> how does one "lower the swapiness" and what is "gamemode" ?
1521[13:48:19] <ratrace> otherwise there aren't any optimizations you can do short of getting better hardware, more ram, faster SSDs.
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1523[13:48:34] <dreamer> and what ratrace said
1524[13:48:36] <jm_> swapiness can be changed using sysctl
1525[13:48:55] <ratrace> gamemode is that cpu governor thingy that boosts max performance, innit?
1526[13:49:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1539
1527[13:49:05] <Kalirog> I'm using repos driver, so i should switch to proprietary driver ? using the .sh from their website ?
1528[13:49:14] <ratrace> I don't think that really matters.
1529[13:49:28] <ratrace> Kalirog: no, debian has the proprietary driver in the repos
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1531[13:49:43] <ratrace> !info nvidia-driver
1532[13:49:48] <dpkg> nvidia-driver: (NVIDIA metapackage), section non-free/x11, is optional. Version: 430.64-5 (sid), Packaged size: 201 kB, Installed size: 223 kB
1533[13:49:59] <Kalirog> Yeah gamemode is basically making the cpu gouvenor to performance and set the graphic card to performance.
1534[13:50:26] <Haohmaru> weird, is that something for laptops?
1535[13:50:27] <ratrace> not sure that helps significantly. intel pstate (if you ahve a newer cpu) is very good
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1537[13:50:55] <Kalirog> i'm using the driver from the repos so i should be good. I have weird "low render" on game, it's stuttering but i don't know if it's hardware related or from the debian side.
1538[13:51:06] <ratrace> Haohmaru: replaced-url
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1541[13:52:41] <Kalirog> Maybe it's because i really wanted to have near windows performance but it's maybe not a thing right now.. I'm getting a second gpu soon to try vm passthrough my graphic card
1542[13:53:08] <ratrace> Kalirog: in my experience with steam, both linux native and proton-based games work wonderfully. in fact, Doom (4) on linux via steam+proton works _faster_ for me than Windows 10 on the same machine. I know because I compared a few graphics intensive regions, saw stuttering on Windows, no stuttering on Linux (Steam+proton)
1543[13:53:23] <ratrace> Kalirog: so I'd say you don't have to do any optimizations, short of as I mentioned getting better hardware.
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1545[13:53:58] <ratrace> (btw the Doom performance is probably due to Vulkan which is superb)
1546[13:54:08] <ratrace> ((didn't compare opengl))
1547[13:54:12] <Kalirog> well, i think there is something wrong with my settings or something, because i'm getting stuttering on doom using vulkan and steam, on a 1070 and a Ryzen 3700x
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1549[13:54:57] <bestwin> Hi. Who was running Debian on Lenovo ThinkSmart Hub 500? I have some trouble with touchscreen innolux N116HSE-EBG. He doesn't work and doesn't determinate by Debian or Ubuntu
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1552[13:55:50] <Kalirog> For an example, Rocket league show me the "render graph" at about 10 ms every 2/3 seconds, when it's normaly 3 or 4 ms. It's seems to be linux related because i don't have this trouble on windows (and i don't think i need better hardware for Rocket league :D
1553[13:56:07] <Kalirog> Nvidia is not helping, it's juste maybe that
1554[13:56:10] <ratrace> Kalirog: maybe too strong settings in side doom itself? I play on 960 and i5 :)
1555[13:56:35] <Kalirog> same setting on both OS, even the same SSD !
1556[13:56:52] <ratrace> Kalirog: in general comparing windows games to linux, watch out if you're comparing directx specific games to opengl specific games, the former being more likely to suffer under wine/proton
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1558[13:57:27] <Haohmaru> wut's this proton thang?
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1560[13:57:35] <Kalirog> is Stuttering "normal" then ? it's just because the game "should" not run on Linux?
1561[13:57:43] <ratrace> Haohmaru: Steam's fork of Wine with extra goodies, and TESTED for games they officially support
1562[13:57:52] <Haohmaru> aww
1563[13:58:06] <ratrace> Haohmaru: also, it's all managed inside and by Steam, so you don't have to install anything additionally.
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1565[13:58:18] <Haohmaru> so they give you crapdows games and they run thru a forked wine?
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1567[13:58:35] <ratrace> Kalirog: that really depends on a number of things, there's no single answer.
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1570[13:59:27] <ratrace> Haohmaru: they officially make windows-only games installable on linux native clients, and run through their proton/wine, yes. They have a number of games they tested and officially support, but you can run any game, even unsupported/untested ones, via proton, and in MY experience, so far so good, with some minor exceptions.
1571[13:59:33] <Kalirog> Yeah, i'm trying to work on it myself but it's kind of tough, nothing seems to be wrong and the installation is pretty new.
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1573[14:00:17] <Kalirog> The weird thing is that is kind of periodic, happenning every 3 or 4 seconds
1574[14:00:43] <Haohmaru> smells like some other program is "thinking" in the background too intensively
1575[14:00:57] <Haohmaru> could also be the OS
1576[14:00:59] <Kalirog> It's not a big deal in single player but on competitive game it's a little bit annoying, and it's the last thing that make me dual boot windows
1577[14:01:15] <ratrace> Kalirog: one important thing.... which DE?
1578[14:01:23] <Haohmaru> don't say kde
1579[14:01:25] <ratrace> I found GNOME to be totally unusable for gaming.
1580[14:01:27] <Kalirog> I'm using Xfc
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1582[14:01:32] <Kalirog> Xfce*
1583[14:01:44] <lupine> WFM *shrug*
1584[14:02:10] <ratrace> I use i3wm myself. no compositor, no stupid things getting in the way of raw fullscreen game performance.
1585[14:02:17] <Kalirog> Kde isn't stable for me, i don't know why. It's on my side but i don't have the knowledge to found the issue to be honest
1586[14:02:18] <lupine> I mean, not on the pinebook pro, but in general
1587[14:02:27] <ratrace> Kalirog: see if you can disable compositor effects for xfce, I hear that helps a lot
1588[14:02:44] <Haohmaru> i'm on lxde, no fancy shizzle
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1590[14:03:08] <Kalirog> Is there any link/website that keep informations like this ?
1591[14:03:46] <Kalirog> I was having terrible tearing without compositor but i'll give it a try
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1597[14:04:30] <ratrace> Kalirog: games are compositors in themselves, so any extra program trying to stand in their way is gonna sink performance
1598[14:05:01] <Kalirog> Oh ok i see
1599[14:05:28] <Kalirog> I think i have force compositor pipeline to full in nvidia setting, otherwise i was getting a lot of stuttering
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1602[14:05:53] <Kalirog> but maybe i should try without it, maybe there is a compositor from xfce that make trouble as well
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1605[14:06:10] <ratrace> Kalirog: there is, especially its "effects", there should be a setting about it in xfce settings
1606[14:06:11] <Kalirog> Thnaks you for the awnser !
1607[14:06:39] <Kalirog> Did anyone tried running game on a Xen server using a VM with pci Passthrough ?
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1611[14:07:45] <ratrace> I heard of few successful attempts here on IRC, I myself wanted to try it out for Destiny but I stopped playing that game on principle and thus no longer care to test VM passthru
1612[14:07:46] <BazookaTooth> kvm yes, xen no. there is no reason to use xen for that
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1614[14:08:04] <Kalirog> Oh yeah i mean KVM sorry
1615[14:08:28] <BazookaTooth> it's a lot of trial and error
1616[14:08:38] <Kalirog> Oh ok
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1618[14:08:52] <Kalirog> I maybe should learn linux first then
1619[14:09:21] <Kalirog> It's so wide though, i'm getting started with books and command line but it's a long journey :d
1620[14:09:34] <BazookaTooth> welcome to linux
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1622[14:09:56] <Haohmaru> lelcome to winux
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1625[14:11:01] <Kalirog> i have been using debian for like 2 years now but mostly GUI things. I'm trying not to break things and learn slowly with bestpractice
1626[14:11:04] <BazookaTooth> Kalirog: proton in steam works well on some games but still hit or miss
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1629[14:12:06] <BazookaTooth> the more you break, the more you tend to learn
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1636[14:14:41] <bestwin> Hi. Who was running Debian on Lenovo ThinkSmart Hub 500? I have some trouble with touchscreen innolux N116HSE-EBG. He doesn't work and doesn't determinate by Debian or Ubuntu
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1654[14:28:17] <Freekid> Doesnt work
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1656[14:28:24] <Freekid> nothing works
1657[14:29:00] <Freekid> also what does usermod g+r mean? cant find anywhere
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1668[14:33:19] <themill> Freekid: do you mean chmod rather than usermod?
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1670[14:33:30] <Freekid> yes chmod
1671[14:33:33] <Freekid> my bad
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1673[14:35:02] <joepublic> chmod g+r "add read permissions to group"
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1675[14:38:22] <ksk> the part before the plus is for whom you change permissions (u=owner, g=group, a=other), and after the plus is r w x for read, write, execute ;)
1676[14:38:28] <ksk> Freekid: ^
1677[14:38:34] <Freekid> thanks
1678[14:38:43] <joepublic> o=other
1679[14:39:37] <ratrace> a=ugo
1680[14:39:49] <ksk> mhhm, reading man chmod: "[snip] other users not in the file's group (o), or all users (a)."
1681[14:40:02] <ksk> whats the diff between the two? never used o so far :o
1682[14:40:36] <ratrace> o is the "others" in the u+g+o triptych. a is shorthand for u+g+o
1683[14:41:28] <ksk> ah, yeah got it. a sets for the tree of them, o only for the last "others" part. thanks :)
1684[14:41:33] <ratrace> or in other words, using a will apply the given r|w|x perm to all three at once
1685[14:41:35] <ksk> s/tree/three
1686[14:42:01] <ksk> inbefore: using octal notation
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1688[14:42:44] <Haohmaru> pls no octal
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1692[14:44:11] <BazookaTooth> bestwin: why are are you expecting a touchscreen to just randomly work on linux?
1693[14:44:42] <Haohmaru> <optimism.jpg>
1694[14:44:48] <joepublic> ^
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1735[15:23:46] <Aebian> mine works, but not fully on the DE but for scrolling on browser it is still nice
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1788[16:02:10] <r3m1> hello
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1791[16:02:34] <r3m1> have a question about logrotate, if there is a more appropriate chan please let me know.
1792[16:02:46] <r3m1> I have a program that keeps filling a file with data
1793[16:03:11] <r3m1> my prog when it is run opens the file in append mode and write
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1795[16:03:54] <r3m1> i want logrotate to handle rotating this file. How does it do wrt the program that is filling up data ?
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1799[16:04:21] <greycat> Does your program have a method for being told to close and reopen the log file? SIGHUP is most commonly used for this.
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1801[16:04:40] <r3m1> greycat: it does not, at least not at the moment
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1803[16:05:57] * greycat looks at the examples in logrotate(8) that use /usr/bin/killall -HUP and cringes
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1805[16:06:10] <r3m1> so either handle SIGHUP or use copytruncate option of logrotate could do if I read and understand the man logrotate
1806[16:06:30] <greycat> If you have control over this program/daemon I would strongly recommend adding a SIGHUP handler to it.
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1812[16:10:27] <r3m1> why SIGHUP instead of copytruncate?
1813[16:10:58] <greycat> Copy+truncate can lose data, if anything is written during of the copy. It's also inefficient, to a silly degree.
1814[16:11:55] <greycat> If the log files are large enough that you feel the need to rotate them in the first place, copying them around is quite a chore.
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1816[16:12:41] <greycat> s/during of/during or immediately after/
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1820[16:14:02] <greycat> Oh good, the man page even mentions the data loss.
1821[16:14:20] <greycat> That... almost makes up for the /usr/bin/killall ;-)
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1823[16:15:03] <Habbie> if you can, just leave the logging to systemd
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1825[16:15:27] <greycat> certainly a choice one can make
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1834[16:24:47] <ratrace> not all logs go through journal
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1836[16:25:05] <r3m1> how do you programmatically use systemd journal then ?
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1838[16:25:14] <ratrace> in what context?
1839[16:25:18] <greycat> We don't know any of the details of this program/service, so we're just throwing ideas up in the air and seeing which ones fly.
1840[16:25:48] <r3m1> in a C program that is currently using call to syslog
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1844[16:26:34] <ratrace> and that goes through journal, unless you're using syslog specific sockets
1845[16:26:58] <r3m1> so it's just a matter of properly configuring systemd journal ?
1846[16:27:15] <greycat> if you want to log through systemd, you don't use syslog(). you write to stdout.
1847[16:27:37] <ratrace> or write to /dev/log
1848[16:27:51] <greycat> if your program is logging with syslog(), then you also don't need a HUP handler within the program -- you HUP syslogd instead.
1849[16:28:07] <greycat> but you said your program opens the log file in append mode... so that seems to contradict what you're saying about syslog()
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1851[16:28:26] <ratrace> no I think they're asking how to use syslog instead
1852[16:28:33] <greycat> why go backwards?
1853[16:28:36] <ratrace> (instead of appending to a custom file)
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1855[16:28:57] <ratrace> I think this needs a GOTO 1 and define _what_ exactly is being "logged" into that file
1856[16:29:16] <ratrace> which will determine whether syslog/journal are acceptable alternatives or not
1857[16:29:44] <r3m1> greycat: indeed. actually I use syslog() in my program to log some runtime actions. now I want to log, or more accurately persist some data produced by the program, and I started to implement this mechanism
1858[16:30:16] <greycat> a mix of syslog() + custom logging is not my first choice. pick one.
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1861[16:31:53] <r3m1> well in this case it is different purposes. Program generates data that needs to be saved. Data are saved by appending them to a file, and I wanted to rotate this file so that it does not grow indefinitely
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1867[16:32:44] <ratrace> r3m1: it's a few lines of code extra, do do that from the program itself, if you're writing it
1868[16:32:50] <ratrace> *to do
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1870[16:33:18] <r3m1> ratrace: to do what ?
1871[16:34:07] <ratrace> close fd, rename, open a new fd, continue writing to it
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1873[16:34:51] <greycat> I don't advise that.
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1877[16:35:06] <r3m1> ratrace: so you mean handling the rotation myself in the program
1878[16:35:22] <ratrace> it's way simpler than implementing signal handlers to asynchronously do that via logrotate for example
1879[16:35:38] <greycat> Well, ... I wouldn't advise that under normal circumstances, for log files. But it sounds like this program violates all concepts of normalcy.
1880[16:35:47] <ratrace> r3m1: yes, your program knows best when it's safe to close and reopen the fd
1881[16:36:10] <ratrace> wouldn't be the frist time a program in unix world does that
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1883[16:37:19] <r3m1> greycat: what would you do then to handle the data produce by the program ?
1884[16:37:27] <r3m1> produced*
1885[16:38:00] <greycat> It's more than just "a few lines" to implement configurable rotation scheduling within the program. And if you don't implement it to be configurable, then you're hard-coding a single schedule inside the program, and modifying that schedule is ridiculously hard.
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1888[16:38:07] <joepublic> the `less` program is pretty good at handling text files
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1893[16:40:17] <ratrace> greycat: depends on how complex rotation scheduling one wants. for most simple rotation (size based, keep N files) it's relatively simple
1894[16:41:12] <r3m1> greycat: so handling SIGHUP would not be enough ? By handling, I mean that when the prog receives SIGHUP it closes the file then immediately (or maybe after some time or an event), reopens it to fill with new data ?
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1898[16:42:40] <greycat> There is no standard paradigm for handling "one program writes to two logging streams, and these streams are very different, and need to be handled differently". You're kinda on your own here.
1899[16:42:42] <r3m1> i would need simple rotation, every day just rotate the file. I though logrotate was the perfect tool to do this, but indeed my program might not be logrotate friendly
1900[16:43:09] <greycat> I still think implementing a HUP handler that closes and reopens both log files is a good idea.
1901[16:43:17] <ratrace> sure, why not.
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1903[16:43:54] <ratrace> two logs streams is not uncommon. that's why there's a separation of stdout and stderr, and many many programs log different things on those two
1904[16:44:02] <ratrace> programs that produce textual output, for starters.
1905[16:44:27] <ratrace> (in which case stdout is not a "log" but the main output of the program, whatev)
1906[16:44:45] <r3m1> how does it work, I mean. If my sighandler closes the file and immediately reopens the same file ? who rotates the existing log ? Or shall the program do it in it's sighandler
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1909[16:45:34] <r3m1> rsyslog do all the rotating when it receives the SIGHUP signal ? Is the job of logrotate just to send the SIGHUP when appropriate ?
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1911[16:45:36] <ratrace> r3m1: logrotate first renames the file, which doesn't affect open FDs, then it signals your program that just closes existing FD and opens a new one
1912[16:45:37] <greycat> logrotate typically renames the log file and then sends a SIGHUP to make the daemon reopen the log file
1913[16:45:52] <r3m1> alright !
1914[16:46:15] * r3m1 is starting to get it :o
1915[16:46:18] <ratrace> except this "just closes" is the hardest part to sync with async signal handlers, your program must do it atomically. finish one log line, see there's a request to reopen fd, then do that, mark the request done
1916[16:47:18] <greycat> It's not hard with most programs. Really.
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1918[16:48:08] <ratrace> in general it isn't. it's just relatively the "hardest" part to do in the whole
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1922[16:48:25] <r3m1> it does not seem a big deal in my case. so I have to take care that if the SIGHUP is received while I'm writting data I dont mess up
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1924[16:48:48] <r3m1> thanks guys that was enlightening for me
1925[16:49:10] <ratrace> that's why your sighup handler only flips a state which your log function monitors. I can't remember if the OS handles this via multiple threads or jumps within code exec
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1931[16:52:07] <greycat> Or... you just use whole-message writes, and don't worry about the vanishingly tiny chance of circumstances that would cause a whole-message fprintf() call to be split across multiple log files, and if it *does* happen, you piece it together yourself.
1932[16:52:58] <ratrace> depends. if you log a transactoin that has multiple lines to log, this won't help
1933[16:53:31] <ratrace> or, I mean, you'll just split the transaction log into multiple files ... that's why I mentioned a GOTO 1 and let's determine what exactly is being logged here
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1935[16:53:33] <greycat> Yeah, a lot depends on this mysterious "data" in this custom "program", and we were not given any details. I almost think they want to write to a database instead of a series of flat text files.
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1937[16:53:56] <ratrace> heh yeah
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1942[16:56:05] <b1ack0p> hi
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2030[18:05:34] *** Quits: Funkin-Stoopid_ (~xavier@replaced-ip) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2031[18:05:38] *** Joins: tinga (~tinga@replaced-ip)
2032[18:06:26] <tinga> Hello. How do I debug firewalling problems? How can I get some insights about what's going on, some peek?
2033[18:07:49] <tinga> Also, I was so frustrated about iptables that I stopped using any firewalling; until a year ago or so when I just *had* to use some insecure programs that listen on localhost without any passwords, and now I've got the old issues again: accepting connections to jupyter, but it just won't connect...
2034[18:07:56] <jelly> tinga: use a sniffer like tcpdump or wireshark to look at traffic on the wire, at both endpoints. See if traffic reaches the destination at all. If it does, then worry about local firewall. If it doesn't, check the source, and then check network components in between.
2035[18:08:21] *** Joins: st3ma (~st3ma@replaced-ip)
2036[18:08:29] <tinga> Shouldn't Debian be providing proper firewalling automatically? I'm a software engineer and looking into software for my father who isn't. How the hell am I going to teach him how to get Jupyter to work...
2037[18:08:52] <jelly> tinga: by default, Debian provides NO firewall at all.
2038[18:09:11] *** Joins: diniwed (~gavron@replaced-ip)
2039[18:09:15] <tinga> Yes, I know that it doesn't out of the box. But?
2040[18:09:43] <tinga> It's one of the things that Windows firewalls might have gotten right, pop up to accept a request.
2041[18:10:23] <tinga> /end ranting mode
2042[18:10:59] *** Quits: czesmir (~stefan@replaced-ip) (Quit: Lost terminal)
2043[18:11:32] *** Joins: jr (b9e67d2b@replaced-ip)
2044[18:11:40] <tinga> (Maybe using Docker is the way to go nowadays, I don't know. I think it's just a sign of giving up, towards bloat. But, "install Docker with Jupyter and working Browser, yet doesn't open up your system to attackers via random websites" just sounds much better.)
2045[18:11:53] *** Quits: ensamvarg (~ensamvarg@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2046[18:12:09] <jelly> what is Jupyter?
2047[18:12:13] *** Quits: troulouliou_div2 (~troulouli@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
2048[18:12:17] * greycat wonders what in the bloody hell a jupyter is and why you need to protect yourself from it and why you'd choose to use it if it's such a dumpster fire
2049[18:12:22] <jelly> dpkg, jupyter
2050[18:12:22] <dpkg> parse error: dunno what the heck you're talking about, jelly
2051[18:12:26] *** Quits: noamber (~luca@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2052[18:12:31] <tinga> A web based notebook to work with Python or Julia or R or other languages.
2053[18:12:34] *** Joins: troulouliou_div2 (~troulouli@replaced-ip)
2054[18:12:47] <jelly> is it packaged in debian at all?
2055[18:12:54] <jr> Hi would smeon
2056[18:13:03] <tinga> (BTW, jupyter-notebook on testing comes without support for Julia. But that's for another time.)
2057[18:13:07] <tinga> jelly, yes it is
2058[18:13:13] <jelly> ,v jupyter-notebook
2059[18:13:14] <judd> Package: jupyter-notebook on amd64 -- stretch: 4.2.3-4; buster: 5.7.8-1; bullseye: 6.0.2-1; sid: 6.0.2-1
2060[18:13:46] <jelly> and it fails to work ootb?
2061[18:13:49] *** Joins: palarya (~palarya@replaced-ip)
2062[18:13:59] <lupulo> dpkg, spyder
2063[18:13:59] <dpkg> lupulo: I'm not sure, is it larger than a breadbox?
2064[18:14:00] <tinga> (except I'll have to figure out how to get Julia to work in it--when the "ju" in its name stands for Julia.)
2065[18:14:00] <jr> Hi please would someone help me with istalliing vpn in qubes? I got into specific issue which one other person had too, he installed some additiional openvpn libraries and it worked for him, Im wondering how he did it tho since its not working for me
2066[18:14:42] <lupulo> dpkg, replaced-url
2067[18:14:42] <dpkg> lupulo: parse error: dunno what the heck you're talking about
2068[18:14:47] <tinga> jelly, it fails in 3 ways for me: (1) doesn't support Julia; (2) doesn't start when ipv6 is turned off; (3) doesn't work with my firewall... :)
2069[18:15:15] <greycat> (2) and (3) sound like self-inflicted wounds
2070[18:15:30] *** Quits: Kevlar_Noir (~manjaro-u@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2071[18:15:34] <tinga> greycat, I argue that not because nowadays you can't run a secure desktop without firewalling anymore.
2072[18:15:41] <greycat> bullshit
2073[18:15:47] <tinga> Sure
2074[18:15:57] *** Joins: Kevlar_Noir (~manjaro-u@replaced-ip)
2075[18:16:08] <tds> you mentioned that it was just on loopback - i'd expect most firewall rulesets to allow all connections incoming on lo
2076[18:16:15] *** Joins: nirae (~nirae@replaced-ip)
2077[18:16:23] <tds> if you're restricting down further than that, it sounds rather self-inflicted as greycat says
2078[18:16:27] <annadane> eh... i trust debian defaults, and just don't do silly things with the root account
2079[18:17:06] *** Joins: rainfyre (~rainfyre@replaced-ip)
2080[18:17:07] <tinga> greycat, I run jamin, it listens on a local port. I run clojure's nrepl, it listens on a local port without ability to use passwords. I run Jupyter, it starts without a password by default.
2081[18:17:26] <jelly> jr: we can only support actual Debian in here, Qubes OS sounds like a derivative or maybe a hypervisor that runs Debian inside a VM?
2082[18:17:43] <tinga> greycat, while browsers are able to connect to localhost as well, and the possibility for security breaches have been shown.
2083[18:18:03] <tinga> It's not only breaking separation between local users, but even opens up remote attacks.
2084[18:18:16] <tinga> And people are just ignorant about this. At large.
2085[18:18:31] <tinga> So, firewalling it is.
2086[18:18:35] <jelly> tinga: each application should probably care about CSRF and such on its own, and most... do not
2087[18:18:37] <tds> tinga: if you're concerned about services listing on lo being accessible by unpriv users, a nice solution is to move them to listening on sockets with appropriate privileges set
2088[18:19:00] <tinga> tds, tell this the app developers, not me. It's what I tell some of them too.
2089[18:19:16] <tinga> tds, the apps I mentioned don't support listening on unix domain sockets.
2090[18:20:33] *** Quits: wytchmaster (~wytchmast@replaced-ip##) (Quit: ##replaced-url
2091[18:20:38] <jelly> I wouldn't expect a Debian maintainer to go out of their way to add decent isolation to an app that opens a replaced-url
2092[18:20:40] *** Quits: hemimaniac (~hemimania@replaced-ip) (Quit: Gotta go, Wife voluntold me to do something)
2093[18:21:19] <tinga> jelly, you know, for techies maybe that works. For my dad it won't, he will just rightfully ask me "but isn't this a solved problem?"
2094[18:21:44] <greycat> and the solution is "stop letting other people use your desktop computer"
2095[18:21:44] <tinga> And, I'm a techie and I'm struggling with iptables not working...
2096[18:21:48] <jelly> tinga: and then you tell him "no, open source devs don't care about security"
2097[18:22:15] <tinga> greycat, no, you may be yourself using a browser while you've got those apps listening.
2098[18:22:40] <jelly> in fact s/open source//;
2099[18:23:22] <tinga> jelly, sadly devs largely don't care nowadays. That's the point I'm trying to make. What I don't know is the solution.
2100[18:23:47] <jelly> tinga: you become a sysadmin for the less able and set things up for them
2101[18:24:08] <tinga> That doesn't scale for when I'm not around.
2102[18:24:16] <jelly> remote access is a thing.
2103[18:24:19] <tinga> And I still have to solve my current issue with iptables.
2104[18:24:55] <tinga> At that point I prefer my father uses windows 10 and curses about it and open source at the same time.
2105[18:24:58] * jelly goes home to explain his mom how to re-add SD channels to the tv, over skype :-\
2106[18:25:30] <jr> jelly yes it hypervisor using debian and fedora templates
2107[18:25:32] *** Quits: [dd] (~dd]@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
2108[18:25:57] <jelly> jr: if you can show an issue within debian vm itself, we might be able to help
2109[18:25:59] <jelly> !ask
2110[18:25:59] <dpkg> If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
2111[18:27:18] *** Quits: DaRock (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2112[18:27:18] *** Quits: kalimist (~cjsarette@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2113[18:27:19] <jelly> jr: but if their Debian template has lots of configuration changes and is too different from a default Debian installation, this channel might probably tell you to go ask whoever provided it
2114[18:27:27] <jr> @jelly I tried to join qubes channell here but it didnt worked :( I just need to install openvpn additiional libraries to the vm which would serve as vpn and through that vm other vms would connect to internet via vpn
2115[18:27:55] <jelly> jr: why just libraries?
2116[18:28:11] <jelly> jr: which debian release is this?
2117[18:28:32] *** Joins: cjsarette (~cjsarette@replaced-ip)
2118[18:28:38] *** Quits: fflori (~fflori@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2119[18:28:54] <jelly> jr: why not just install openvpn (I presume, server) and configure it?
2120[18:28:54] <jr> open vpn itself is installed by default, its debian 10 template vm , but the whole thing under hypervisor is called qubes
2121[18:29:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1547
2122[18:29:52] <jr> I got this same issue , wanted to do the same thing as op
2123[18:29:53] <jr> replaced-url
2124[18:30:13] <jelly> jr: I don't know what the hypervisor does and can't help about that, just debian. Can you formulate your issues like dpkg !ask said
2125[18:30:35] *** Quits: diogenes_ (~diogenes_@replaced-ip) (Quit: vergissmeinnicht)
2126[18:30:36] <jelly> jr: does network work in Debian?
2127[18:31:31] *** Quits: HeXiLeD (~grumpy@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2128[18:31:42] *** Joins: nickodd (~nickodd@replaced-ip)
2129[18:31:48] <jelly> jr: are you trying to set up an openvpn client or server?
2130[18:31:54] *** Quits: bhoman (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2131[18:31:57] *** Quits: jpe (~jp@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
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2133[18:32:32] *** Joins: bhoman (~quassel@replaced-ip)
2134[18:33:14] *** Quits: maroloccio (~marolocci@replaced-ip) (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2135[18:33:27] <jr> in the vm Im trying to install the openvpn in ? no it does not work, yes openvpn client, just connect to a server with my credentials ( already done setting it up and importing ovpn files just the additional libraries are missing in that thing and thats why it does not connect, same thing as on the link I sended you
2136[18:34:40] <jelly> jr: does network work in general, before starting openvpn?
2137[18:35:04] <jr> yes in the other vms it does, just not with this one which should serve as vpn
2138[18:35:09] *** Quits: olivetree_ (~oliveira@replaced-ip##) (Quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3 - ##replaced-url
2139[18:35:10] <jelly> jr: ie. can you ping your 8.8.4.4 or your openvpn server from within debian?
2140[18:35:20] *** Joins: _0bitcount (~Big_Byte@replaced-ip)
2141[18:35:50] *** Quits: winy (~vince@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving.)
2142[18:37:37] <jelly> if network fails completely it will not be possible to connect to the vpn server. Also, if you added non-Debian components to the Debian installation, you'll probably have to ask whoever provided those components
2143[18:37:42] <jr> @jelly I tried this wget replaced-url
2144[18:37:43] <jr> but it got me some bs info like could not find the address etc
2145[18:37:51] <jelly> first figure out the network without vpn
2146[18:38:09] <jelly> jeez
2147[18:38:29] *** Quits: swickrotation (~swickrota@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2148[18:38:34] <jr> my question is very straightforward, can I get those openvpn libraries ( I dont know what that dude might by that on r ) and then ge them into that vm via usb and install it
2149[18:38:37] <jr> ???
2150[18:39:06] <jelly> it's not a good idea to download and execute random scripts off the net.
2151[18:39:35] <jelly> jr: no idea which libraries that link is talking about.
2152[18:39:49] *** Joins: swickrotation (~swickrota@replaced-ip)
2153[18:40:37] <tinga> Why does iptables REJECT behave differently from closed ports nowadays? (IIRC it was the same in linux 2.4 or 2.6 days or so) replaced-url
2154[18:40:43] *** Quits: jgriffith (~jgriffith@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2155[18:40:48] *** Joins: HeXiLeD (~grumpy@replaced-ip)
2156[18:40:50] *** Joins: xalen7 (~ztr8x@replaced-ip)
2157[18:41:22] <jelly> jr: the openvpn package provides client services. Best read /usr/share/doc/openvpn/README.Debian.gz on how to configure it.
2158[18:41:53] <tinga> (OK, takes a second above is probably because the sender doesn't receive the response.)
2159[18:41:57] *** Quits: shabius_ (~shabius@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
2160[18:42:07] *** Quits: trackanddirt (~trackandd@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2161[18:42:12] *** Quits: chmykh (~chmykh@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2162[18:42:17] *** Quits: coot (sid304833@replaced-ip) ()
2163[18:42:28] *** Joins: jgriffith (~jgriffith@replaced-ip)
2164[18:42:32] <tinga> (But I don't understand if that's the case, why the sender *does* stop after a second; whereas with iptables -j DROP, it goes on a long time.)
2165[18:42:33] *** Joins: coot (sid304833@replaced-ip)
2166[18:42:37] <jr> @jelly have you checked out the reddit link ? about configuration do you mean by putting credentials in?
2167[18:43:32] *** Joins: u0_a166 (~u0_a166@replaced-ip)
2168[18:43:38] <u0_a166> hello
2169[18:43:53] <jelly> jr: I mean read README.Debian.gz. That link talks about "vpn-handler-openvpn" and "Qubes-vpn-support" and those do not come from Debian.
2170[18:43:55] *** Joins: Haudegen (~quassel@replaced-ip)
2171[18:44:45] <b1ack0p> hellow :p
2172[18:45:10] *** Quits: gormenghast (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Quit: gormenghast)
2173[18:45:37] *** Quits: HarveyPwca (~HarveyPwc@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
2174[18:46:09] <jelly> tinga: strace telnet and see _where_ it hangs. name resolution?
2175[18:46:32] *** Joins: JohnML (~john1@replaced-ip)
2176[18:46:33] *** Quits: u0_a166 (~u0_a166@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2177[18:46:44] *** Quits: hele (~hele@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2178[18:47:44] * ratrace ears perk up on hearing the word 'telnet'
2179[18:47:45] <jelly> tinga: also, on linux loopback device has limited iptables support; I don't remember which specific bits are shortcut and do not work (-t NAT is crippled, but I don't know what else)
2180[18:48:05] <jr> @jelly yeah that what is Im trying to achieve, both using debian :(
2181[18:49:03] *** Quits: m0u (~m0u@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2182[18:49:32] <tinga> jelly, it's this which takes a second (so nothing with name resolution): connect(3, {sa_family=AF_INET, sin_port=htons(8888), sin_addr=inet_addr("127.0.0.1")}, 16) = -1 ECONNREFUSED (Connection refused)
2183[18:50:26] *** Joins: u0_a119 (~u0_a119@replaced-ip)
2184[18:50:47] <jelly> tinga: strace -f -TT will tell you if that's really the long syscall
2185[18:50:59] *** Quits: OnceMe (~onceme@replaced-ip) (Quit: Going to SIGINT)
2186[18:51:16] *** Joins: u0_a166 (~u0_a166@replaced-ip)
2187[18:51:43] <tinga> jelly, it is
2188[18:51:50] *** Quits: rtra (~rtra@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2189[18:51:59] <tinga> BTW this is the minimized firewalling of mine which doesn't work for Jupyter: iptables -F && iptables -A OUTPUT -p tcp -d 127.0.0.1 --destination-port 8888 -j ACCEPT && iptables -A OUTPUT -p tcp -d 127.0.0.1 -j REJECT
2190[18:52:06] <gordonfish> tinga: It seems DROP has the same behavior as closed port (a port that nothing is listening on), which also has a delay
2191[18:52:36] *** Joins: rtra (~rtra@replaced-ip)
2192[18:52:43] <tinga> gordonfish, closed port does *not* have a delay. DROP has a minute+ long delay (time out). REJECT has a 1 second delay.
2193[18:53:00] <jelly> tinga: I suspect doing that will break other things.
2194[18:53:00] <tinga> (Closed port without any firewalling active, that is.)
2195[18:53:12] <greycat> these sound like good questions for #netfilter
2196[18:53:14] *** Joins: Fufu (~Fufu@replaced-ip)
2197[18:53:20] *** Quits: u0_a166 (~u0_a166@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2198[18:53:28] <Freekid> Guys this is really frustrating I am trying to access samba for so many hours but still cant figure it out! replaced-url
2199[18:53:29] *** Quits: FuturePilot (~Fufu@replaced-ip) (Disconnected by services)
2200[18:53:35] <Freekid> ^ check the image
2201[18:53:40] <tinga> jelly, even if it breaks jupyter itself and that's why it doesnt work, shouldn't it at least not give "Connection refused"?
2202[18:53:44] *** Joins: FuturePilot (~Fufu@replaced-ip)
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2204[18:53:57] *** Fufu is now known as FuturePilot
2205[18:54:02] <gordonfish> tinga: If I try to telnet to any port that doesn't have a lister, be it a port on a linux or windows box, there is a pretty long delay
2206[18:54:18] *** Joins: Fufu (~Fufu@replaced-ip)
2207[18:54:45] <tinga> gordonfish, not for me. I've been testing this on localhost right now (which is what I'm interested in), but I've seen the same many times on remote hosts, too??
2208[18:54:48] <jelly> tinga: but yeah. I see it. connect(3, {sa_family=AF_INET, sin_port=htons(64738), sin_addr=inet_addr("127.0.0.1")}, 16) = -1 ECONNREFUSED (Connection refused) <1.013666>
2209[18:54:57] *** Quits: P1ersson (~P1ersson@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2210[18:55:00] *** Quits: NetTerminalGene (~NetTermin@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
2211[18:55:33] *** Joins: u0_a166 (~u0_a166@replaced-ip)
2212[18:55:37] <jelly> tinga: it might break other services and clients talking over ipv4 localhost
2213[18:55:37] *** Quits: u0_a166 (~u0_a166@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2214[18:55:39] <tinga> I must be doing something wrong. There's the TCP SYN package filtering, which can be used to just disable connections, but apparently the iptables man page has been split up, have to find the docs first.
2215[18:55:52] <jelly> but yeah, #Netfilter
2216[18:56:07] <tinga> Didn't know about #netfilter, thanks!
2217[18:56:10] *** Joins: dastier_ (~dastier@replaced-ip)
2218[18:56:18] <tinga> (Used to asl on #lartc)
2219[18:56:20] <tinga> ask
2220[18:56:26] *** Quits: tilpner (~weechat@replaced-ip) (Quit: tilpner)
2221[18:56:52] <tinga> (Will ask later, being interrupted)
2222[18:57:08] *** Joins: u0_a166 (~u0_a166@replaced-ip)
2223[18:57:17] *** Quits: jr (b9e67d2b@replaced-ip) (Quit: TechSupport user disconnecting)
2224[18:57:18] <b1ack0p> sup debians?
2225[18:57:45] *** Joins: kalimist (~cjsarette@replaced-ip)
2226[18:57:47] <Freekid> fix me b1ack0p replaced-url
2227[18:58:06] <Freekid> direct link replaced-url
2228[18:58:21] *** Quits: cjsarette (~cjsarette@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2229[18:58:21] <greycat> *plonk*
2230[18:58:28] <b1ack0p> what s that?
2231[18:58:29] *** Joins: diogenes_ (~diogenes_@replaced-ip)
2232[18:58:36] <Freekid> cant access samba
2233[18:58:42] <Freekid> thats samba testparm
2234[18:58:46] <jelly> help me Obi Wan-Blackop, you're my only hope!
2235[18:58:48] *** Joins: dionysus69 (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
2236[18:58:55] <b1ack0p> Freekid: it says contact to your system admin :p
2237[18:59:11] <Freekid> I am the sys admin :3
2238[18:59:15] <b1ack0p> jelly: google is your friend :p
2239[18:59:17] *** Quits: u0_a119 (~u0_a119@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2240[18:59:30] <b1ack0p> next..
2241[18:59:31] <b1ack0p> ?
2242[18:59:49] <Freekid> see the config right side??
2243[18:59:56] <Freekid> my samba config
2244[19:00:22] <b1ack0p> do i look like an expert there? :p
2245[19:00:40] *** Quits: u0_a166 (~u0_a166@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2248[19:01:12] *** Joins: bl0m1 (sid314902@replaced-ip)
2249[19:01:13] <Freekid> I dont know I am just frustrated. This is my server I want to do whatever i want but it wont let me
2250[19:02:02] *** Quits: u0_a166 (~u0_a166@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
2251[19:02:14] *** Joins: Dhora (~Dhora@replaced-ip)
2252[19:02:29] *** Joins: tilpner (~weechat@replaced-ip)
2253[19:02:34] <section1> Freekid, maybe is a win 10 problem
2254[19:02:49] <section1> or which ever windows is that
2255[19:02:50] <b1ack0p> i dont suggest going to ##windows
2256[19:03:01] <petn-randall> Freekid: It'll do whatever you tell it to. It won't do what you mean.
2257[19:03:08] <b1ack0p> is there any server related channel around?
2258[19:03:33] <greycat> to be fair, if it's Microsoft Windows, it'll do whatever Microsoft told it to do
2259[19:03:40] <b1ack0p> lol
2260[19:03:44] <greycat> your input is a distant second place
2261[19:03:48] <Freekid> That server is running debian section1 debian 10
2262[19:03:56] <jmarsden> black0p: for Samba, I'd try #samba
2263[19:04:12] <section1> yeah Freekid im talking about the client..
2264[19:04:12] <b1ack0p> jmarsden: is there latin babes who make samba? :p
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2268[19:06:16] <gordonfish> Freekid: The windows-side error in your screenshot looks like you're not using the appropriate user/password needed to access that share.
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2270[19:06:46] <Freekid> There is no user/pass set in samba
2271[19:06:51] <Freekid> Should i do it?
2272[19:06:58] <Freekid> amnd try again?
2273[19:07:58] <jmarsden> Freekid: See if replaced-url
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2277[19:08:35] <Freekid> Forbidden
2278[19:08:35] <Freekid> <p>You are not allowed to access this!</p> jmarsden
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2280[19:08:47] <Freekid> lol
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2282[19:09:05] <jmarsden> Freekid: In general, yes you will need password for your network users. I just accessed that page 100% fine...
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2284[19:09:36] <Freekid> So that site is blocking vpn
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2286[19:10:43] <Freekid> yes it is blocking my vpn ip!!!
2287[19:10:44] <jmarsden> Freekid: Why is accessing a Debina wiki so subversive that you need to do it in secret via a VPN ?
2288[19:10:57] <Freekid> It was just on
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2290[19:11:32] <jelly> that vpn provider was apparently used to abuse wiki in the past and got blocked
2291[19:11:56] <Freekid> damn!
2292[19:12:36] <Freekid> Why someone wants to mess with a linux wiki!
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2296[19:15:19] <lupine> If I want a -dbg package in bullseye... how do?
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2298[19:15:27] <lupine> bullseye-debug doesn't seem to exist
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2302[19:16:11] <greycat> replaced-url
2303[19:16:19] <greycat> Most of the library packages with debugging symbols have been moved to a new repository.
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2306[19:17:22] <lupine> oh, I see it. debian-debug bullseye-debug
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2308[19:17:55] <lupine> firefox-esr-dbgsym is 775MB :D
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2313[19:19:01] <lupine> at this rate I'm going to need to add several gigs of swap just to see why it's dying on me
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2392[19:32:59] <Freekid> what does locking = no do?
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2408[19:34:30] <b1ack0p> what is happening?
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2420[19:35:43] <Freekid> bad peering internet connections are getting disconnected
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2424[19:36:06] <Freekid> or a freenode mirror went down
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2429[19:36:22] <b1ack0p> hmm
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2437[19:39:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1535
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2439[19:40:15] <twobitsprite> I feel like the default tab-completion for "cd <tab>" should ignore .* directories... where would I file an issue/feature for this?
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2456[19:43:34] <Sentinel14> Hi guys
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2469[19:47:36] <ksk> Sentinel14: hello.
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2475[19:50:08] <Sentinel14> I would like to ask, it's possible to blacklist GPU ports? Tried the ignore option on xorg.conf but monitors are still used in particular phases of presession... That's a prob.
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2482[19:53:02] <eno> hello
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2486[19:53:33] <eno> i have noticed something weird today on my debian based os
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2488[19:53:42] <annadane> !debian based
2489[19:53:43] <dpkg> Your distribution may be based on and have software in common with Debian, but it is not Debian. We don't and cannot know what changes were made by your distribution (compare replaced-url
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2492[19:54:10] <eno> thats true not really a debian thing though
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2495[19:54:32] <eno> i think something malicious start running on my pc
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2501[19:56:40] <eno> noticed a process /usr/sbin/exec-run-k start -o lol.r00ts.ninja:4444 -u IBV running and slowing down the pc
2502[19:57:01] <eno> its on port 4444 so its oviously malicious
2503[19:57:21] <eno> look it up a bit on google couldnt find anything to solve it
2504[19:57:49] <greycat> Is /usr/sbin/exec-run-k the full name of the program file, or is it truncated?
2505[19:58:23] <eno> i killed the process since CPU hitting almost 100%
2506[19:58:25] <greycat> I would say there's nothing malicious about the number 4444, but lol.r00ts.ninja is another matter.
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2508[19:59:08] <eno> well 4444 is known for metasplois stuff so thats im aware for it
2509[19:59:12] <greycat> OK, so now that you've killed it... is it really dead? Did it come back with a new PID?
2510[19:59:38] <greycat> Is the pathname /usr/sbin/exec-run-k? Have you moved that file to a new location yet?
2511[19:59:43] <eno> nope but its probably after an hour comes back since i tried the same before
2512[20:00:04] <greycat> Stop guessing and saying things like "probably". Take specific steps. Observe the actual state.
2513[20:00:16] <greycat> ls -ld /usr/sbin/exec-run-k
2514[20:00:20] <greycat> ps -ef | grep exec-run
2515[20:00:56] <eno> nothing found
2516[20:01:00] *** Joins: jameshjacks0njr (sid381910@replaced-ip)
2517[20:01:03] *** Quits: trackanddirt (~trackandd@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2518[20:01:08] <greycat> What did it say BEFORE you killed it?
2519[20:01:30] *** Quits: section1 (~section1@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
2520[20:01:35] <eno> nothing shown
2521[20:01:42] <greycat> Then what did you kill?
2522[20:02:28] *** Quits: vgrade (~martinbro@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2523[20:02:42] <nt80> googling "lol.r00ts.ninja" says it's a cryptominer trojan, you're in trouble
2524[20:02:46] *** Joins: Tobbi (~Tobbi@replaced-ip)
2525[20:03:14] <eno> i noticed the ps start lagging so i opened up system monitor filtered via CPU and saw that was on 100% usage
2526[20:03:18] <greycat> Just scroll back to wherever you ran the ps command that showed you the process before, and paste it.
2527[20:03:18] <diogenes_> eno, gnome?
2528[20:03:25] <eno> yeap
2529[20:03:32] <greycat> Oh god, you didn't work in a TERMINAL?!
2530[20:03:36] <greycat> You used GUI crap tools?
2531[20:03:37] <eno> nt80 saw that as well
2532[20:03:44] <nt80> ah okay
2533[20:03:57] <greycat> So you have no session transcript to scroll back to and review?
2534[20:04:07] <eno> greycat ony to monitor i pkilled it
2535[20:04:12] *** Quits: filpAM (~filipe@replaced-ip) (Quit: leaving)
2536[20:04:24] *** Quits: troulouliou_dev (~troulouli@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
2537[20:04:33] <greycat> Well, if it comes back, find out what the hell it IS and how it's getting started, and the first step in that is ps -ef.
2538[20:04:59] *** Joins: aldobarone (~aldobaron@replaced-ip)
2539[20:05:01] <greycat> ps -ef will show you which user account it's running as (i.e. which account is compromised), plus when it started, plus its parent process ID.
2540[20:05:05] <eno> looked at cron found nothing
2541[20:05:26] <diogenes_> eno, run: cut -d: -f1 /etc/passwd and look for sftp there.
2542[20:05:55] *** Joins: rayjb (~ray@replaced-ip)
2543[20:06:17] <diogenes_> also cat /etc/rc.local
2544[20:06:22] <greycat> If you know the start time, you can look for cron invocations at that time in the standard logs.
2545[20:06:51] <eno> no sftp
2546[20:06:53] <greycat> If could be started by cron, or by a systemd service, or a systemd --user service, or it might have been started by hand...
2547[20:07:02] <greycat> Knowing the parent process ID helps with that.
2548[20:07:05] <greycat> Thus, ps -ef.
2549[20:07:53] *** Quits: aldobarone (~aldobaron@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
2550[20:08:01] <eno> if i get it again ill try ps -ef
2551[20:08:11] *** Joins: fstd_ (~fstd@replaced-ip)
2552[20:08:48] <ksk> On the occation I saw a crypto-miner infected box, ps was replaced to exclude the miner - try pstree maybe if it does not show up ;)
2553[20:08:52] *** Quits: JohnML (~john1@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2554[20:09:06] <greycat> If it's running as root, it's time to reinstall.
2555[20:09:15] <greycat> If it's not running as root... there's a chance.
2556[20:09:17] <eno> ksk looking for something specific in that ?
2557[20:10:08] <spacebug^> if the location /usr/sbin is true it must have been run as root right
2558[20:10:19] <greycat> hmm, yeah, probably
2559[20:10:34] <greycat> too bad he never told us whether /usr/sbin/thing is the real pathname even after I asked 3 times
2560[20:10:54] <eno> im root yes
2561[20:11:08] <greycat> not YOU. the PROCESS.
2562[20:11:22] <greycat> the one we're trying to gather information about
2563[20:11:26] <eno> lol no clue but probably yes
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2565[20:11:32] *** Quits: format_c (~format_c@replaced-ip) (Changing host)
2566[20:11:32] *** Joins: format_c (~format_c@replaced-ip)
2567[20:11:51] <eno> nothing suspicious in pstree
2568[20:11:59] <greycat> ...
2569[20:12:07] <greycat> it's TOO LATE NOW...
2570[20:12:13] *** Quits: xcm (~xcm@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2571[20:12:26] <ksk> eno: as grey-cat tried to tell you, computers are not about a feeling you have. you can determine how things are on a definite basis.
2572[20:12:33] <greycat> the suggestion was to use pstree if and only if ps didn't show the process due to the /usr/bin/ps command being hijacked
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2574[20:12:51] *** Quits: fstd (~fstd@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2575[20:12:52] *** fstd_ is now known as fstd
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2578[20:13:12] *** Joins: swift110_ (~swift110@replaced-ip)
2579[20:14:00] <eno> well i'll keep monitor the processes for a while
2580[20:14:17] <eno> thanks for the help noted some things to try
2581[20:14:27] <spacebug^> eno: what do you get from 'sha256sum /usr/bin/ps' ?
2582[20:14:35] *** Quits: lucad111 (~lucad111@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
2583[20:15:08] <eno> 3da90f1c102675ab8828705a977d06273f3ea32857c884e883d533de66fca884 /usr/bin/ps
2584[20:15:27] *** Joins: xcm (~xcm@replaced-ip)
2585[20:15:27] <spacebug^> oh wait you where not on debian but something built on debian
2586[20:15:33] <greycat> what version of Debian, what architecture?
2587[20:15:50] <eno> im on kali
2588[20:15:53] <greycat> screw me, we're helping a NON-DEBIAN USER here>!
2589[20:15:56] <greycat> slkdfksjdhf
2590[20:15:58] <greycat> *PLONK*
2591[20:16:08] *** Quits: ZeroBeholder (~ZeroBehol@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2592[20:16:12] <eno> lol
2593[20:16:20] <greycat> gods
2594[20:16:30] <spacebug^> !kali
2595[20:16:30] <dpkg> Kali Linux (replaced-url
2596[20:16:58] <towo`> haha, the great hacker distro with comes with malware installed
2597[20:17:08] <spacebug^> Kali is not meant to be run as a desktop or server for daily use. It's a penetration testing system
2598[20:17:15] <eno> not installed but anyway
2599[20:17:30] *** Joins: ZeroBeholder (~ZeroBehol@replaced-ip)
2600[20:17:34] <eno> obviously thats my use spacebug^
2601[20:17:45] <greycat> It's ALSO meant to be used by people who have at least 0.25 clue, which you are clearly not.
2602[20:17:48] *** Quits: Mor1or (~Mor1or@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2603[20:17:59] <eno> thanks greycat
2604[20:18:00] *** Quits: st3ma (~st3ma@replaced-ip) (Quit: WeeChat 2.7)
2605[20:18:14] <greycat> If multiple people have to explain to you how to use ps, you are not Kali user material yet.
2606[20:18:57] <eno> yeah forgot that have to be a linux expert
2607[20:19:16] <annadane> oh, wow.
2608[20:19:21] <annadane> "debian based" = kali
2609[20:19:22] <annadane> yeeeeeeah
2610[20:19:30] *** Joins: twobitsprite (~ifreeman@replaced-ip)
2611[20:19:38] <annadane> don't use kali under any circumstances as a desktop OS, at least parrot can partially be used for that
2612[20:19:43] <eno> anyways like i said i''ll keep monitor the processes and try some things you said
2613[20:19:44] *** Quits: xSmurf (~MrSmurf@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2614[20:19:44] <annadane> really, just use debian though
2615[20:19:50] *** Quits: endstille (~endstille@replaced-ip) (Quit: I'll be back.)
2616[20:19:58] *** Joins: trackanddirt (~trackandd@replaced-ip)
2617[20:20:11] <eno> its a vm calm down everyone
2618[20:20:19] *** Joins: slon_ (~slon@replaced-ip)
2619[20:20:37] <petn-randall> I only run Kali in a VM. I've never managed to *not* break the packaging within 6 months of upgrading.
2620[20:20:57] *** Joins: guardian (~guardian@replaced-ip)
2621[20:21:07] <petn-randall> But either way that's offtopic here. Their support channel is listed above.
2622[20:21:14] *** Quits: twobitsp1ite (~ifreeman@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2625[20:22:14] *** Parts: Sentinel14 (3e0b589c@replaced-ip) ()
2626[20:22:59] *** Quits: nirae (~nirae@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2627[20:24:19] <eno> the process runs as root to let you know anyway disconnecting and i'll find something
2628[20:24:23] *** Quits: Ericounet (~Eric@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2629[20:26:09] *** Quits: twobitsprite (~ifreeman@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2630[20:26:16] *** Quits: eno (d13a93f3@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2631[20:27:49] *** Quits: sauvin (sauvin@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2632[20:28:22] *** Quits: pacbard (~pacbard@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2633[20:29:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1527
2634[20:30:05] *** Joins: bashquest (~bash0r@replaced-ip)
2635[20:30:25] *** Joins: pacbard (~pacbard@replaced-ip)
2636[20:30:35] *** Quits: UndefinedIsNotAF (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2637[20:31:53] *** Quits: bhoman (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2638[20:32:03] *** Quits: michaelni (~michael@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2639[20:32:35] *** Joins: bhoman (~quassel@replaced-ip)
2640[20:32:39] *** Quits: trackanddirt (~trackandd@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2641[20:33:12] *** Quits: zalt__ (~devp@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2642[20:33:32] *** Joins: zalt__ (~devp@replaced-ip)
2643[20:33:35] *** Quits: zoe_ (~zoe@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2644[20:34:19] *** Quits: cryptodan (~cryptodan@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2645[20:34:41] <jelly> TIL use of "ps" makes you an expert
2646[20:34:45] *** Joins: UndefinedIsNotAF (~quassel@replaced-ip)
2647[20:34:56] *** Joins: itamarst (uid165457@replaced-ip)
2648[20:35:08] *** Joins: zoe_ (~zoe@replaced-ip)
2649[20:36:05] <ksk> if you know some amount of its switches I would not argue ;)
2650[20:36:07] <greycat> even top would have been OK, as long as the process was visible in the terminal at the time they stopped top, so that they can scroll back and SEE it, and PASTE it
2651[20:36:17] *** Quits: troulouliou_div2 (~troulouli@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2652[20:36:19] <greycat> but no, they used a freaking GUI tool
2653[20:36:25] *** Quits: kapil_ (uid36151@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2654[20:36:36] <greycat> and they think they should be using Kali
2655[20:36:53] *** Joins: cryptodan (~cryptodan@replaced-ip)
2656[20:37:13] *** Joins: nirae (~nirae@replaced-ip)
2657[20:37:24] * jelly digs lol.r00ts.ninja
2658[20:37:56] <jelly> amazon ip range, that says nothing
2659[20:38:43] <greycat> you could lean on Amazon to cough up the human(s) who own the IP address, if you have enough power
2660[20:38:58] *** Quits: towo` (~towo@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
2661[20:39:50] * jelly does not, would have to go up the chain
2662[20:40:18] <spacebug^> omg, "jelly digs lol.r00ts.ninja". I read that like you "like" the domain *facepalm*
2663[20:40:56] <ksk> ninja tld is kind of pricy as far as I know..
2664[20:41:07] *** Joins: towo` (~towo@replaced-ip)
2665[20:41:12] <jelly> spacebug^: that was fully intentional
2666[20:41:19] <spacebug^> oh hehe
2667[20:41:21] *** Quits: guardian (~guardian@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2668[20:41:28] *** Quits: dvs (~hibbard@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2669[20:41:31] *** Joins: [dd] (~dd]@replaced-ip)
2670[20:41:55] *** Joins: chihchun (sid12545@replaced-ip)
2671[20:41:56] *** Joins: moistmoskito (~luna@replaced-ip)
2672[20:42:45] <jelly> sw33p.ninja $6.88/yr
2673[20:43:07] *** Quits: jello_pudding (~jello_pud@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2674[20:43:39] *** Joins: ajeremias (~ajeremias@replaced-ip)
2675[20:43:58] <ajeremias> hi my friends.. what am I missing here? replaced-url
2676[20:44:05] *** Joins: banjo (~ban@replaced-ip)
2677[20:44:06] <greycat> google is giving me "Compare .ninja registration prices from $4.82 to $33.91 offered by 44 registrars"
2678[20:45:03] *** Joins: michaelni (~michael@replaced-ip)
2679[20:45:15] <ratrace> ajeremias: can you use a sane pastebin pls? kthnxbai.
2680[20:45:40] <Freekid> lol
2681[20:46:08] <jelly> ratrace: what's wrong with a raw link?
2682[20:46:27] <Freekid> I have no issue it looks clean
2683[20:46:36] <doughy> I have a question regarding makefiles
2684[20:46:37] <ajeremias> what is kthnxbai?
2685[20:46:47] <ajeremias> aah if i read it fast.. i understand :D
2686[20:46:52] <Freekid> jelly everything is woring now
2687[20:47:02] <jelly> Freekid: sorry about that
2688[20:47:06] <Freekid> *working
2689[20:47:17] <ratrace> jelly: oh it is? I have pastebin com blocked by adware dns blacklist
2690[20:47:17] <ajeremias> so but why isn't gcc compiling a switch case? o.O
2691[20:47:29] <Freekid> why are you sorry about that?
2692[20:47:32] <ajeremias> can u recommend something else?
2693[20:47:32] <Freekid> lol
2694[20:47:44] <jelly> ajeremias: is that gcc or clang? You asked it to -Werror=implicit-fallthrough
2695[20:48:06] *** Quits: guerby (~guerby@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2696[20:48:26] <doughy> is there a way to take all files with a .c extension and put them in the actual Makefile or do you have to type every source file manually?
2697[20:48:27] <ajeremias> im compiling nginx with rtmp module
2698[20:49:01] <greycat> doughy: it's not hard to generate the list of *.c files with a shell command and redirect that into a file
2699[20:49:07] <jelly> ajeremias: so it converted what would have otherwise been a warning into an error. You'll have to read, understand and fix the code, or not use -Werror...
2700[20:49:36] <jelly> ,v libnginx-mod-rtmp
2701[20:49:37] <judd> Package: libnginx-mod-rtmp on amd64 -- stretch-backports: 1.14.1-1~bpo9+1; buster: 1.14.2-2+deb10u1; buster-security: 1.14.2-2+deb10u1; bullseye: 1.16.1-3; sid: 1.16.1-3
2702[20:49:51] <jelly> ajeremias: does that thing not work ^ ?
2703[20:50:03] *** Joins: preview (~quassel@replaced-ip)
2704[20:50:03] <ajeremias> hmm maybeee
2705[20:50:08] <jelly> ajeremias: how did I find it? "apt-cache search nginx rtmp"
2706[20:50:16] <ajeremias> :$
2707[20:50:22] <greycat> replaced-url
2708[20:50:23] <jelly> ajeremias: now you know!
2709[20:50:26] <ajeremias> looks easier
2710[20:50:33] *** Joins: guerby (~guerby@replaced-ip)
2711[20:50:57] *** Joins: kn0rki (~Kn0rki@replaced-ip)
2712[20:50:59] <greycat> Also what jelly said.
2713[20:51:48] <jelly> if I wanted to compile all sorts of things I'd use arch or gentoo or bsd or whatnot
2714[20:51:51] *** Joins: holden- (~holden-@replaced-ip)
2715[20:51:54] <JakeSays> hey does anyone know why grub would be involved when using apt?
2716[20:51:58] *** Joins: srgg (~srgg@replaced-ip)
2717[20:52:00] <jelly> wait, is arch binary or source based
2718[20:52:08] *** Joins: Adbray (~Adbray@replaced-ip)
2719[20:52:10] <jelly> JakeSays: yes.
2720[20:52:13] <greycat> JakeSays: because you installed something that triggers update-grub, typically
2721[20:52:23] <ajeremias> im using docker :x
2722[20:52:25] <greycat> like a kernel or systemd or stuff like that
2723[20:52:32] <jelly> or a dkms package
2724[20:52:45] *** Joins: Razva (sid17541@replaced-ip)
2725[20:52:47] <jelly> oh, no, not that
2726[20:52:54] <JakeSays> ugh. how do i figure that out? i'm suddenly getting invalid volume errors
2727[20:53:04] <ajeremias> why peepz hate docker so much? |: i love it
2728[20:53:07] <JakeSays> i have two drives that are ntfs, and grub doesn't like it
2729[20:53:07] <greycat> you "figure that out" by reading what it says on the terminal
2730[20:53:11] <jelly> JakeSays: can you capture and show the complete output?
2731[20:53:15] *** Joins: jfb4_ (~jfb4@replaced-ip)
2732[20:53:36] <JakeSays> greycat: "i did" but thanks
2733[20:53:45] <JakeSays> jelly: yeah just a sec
2734[20:53:48] <jelly> JakeSays: it doesn't matter that it can't deal with them as long as it deals well with linux / and/or /boot
2735[20:53:50] <greycat> so then you know what pacakge yo just installed
2736[20:53:59] *** Quits: xcm (~xcm@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2737[20:54:05] <JakeSays> greycat: i'm removing a package
2738[20:54:05] *** Quits: jfb4 (~jfb4@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2739[20:54:41] <jelly> JakeSays: pastebin the complete command line and whole output, if you can
2740[20:54:48] <jelly> !paste
2741[20:54:48] <dpkg> Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: replaced-url
2742[20:55:01] <JakeSays> jelly: working on it
2743[20:55:10] <ksk> ajeremias: I am not able to google it right now, but the lxc project (which docker is based on) says: "dont use privileged container" - which docker does.
2744[20:55:55] *** janneke_ is now known as janneke
2745[20:56:00] <ajeremias> ksk thats a good resume...
2746[20:56:06] <ksk> ajeremias: see replaced-url
2747[20:56:23] *** Quits: tomreyn (~tomreyn@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2748[20:56:28] *** Joins: xcm (~xcm@replaced-ip)
2749[20:58:10] *** Joins: tomreyn (~tomreyn@replaced-ip)
2750[20:58:31] *** Quits: xalen7 (~ztr8x@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
2751[20:59:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1535
2752[20:59:07] <JakeSays> jelly: replaced-url
2753[20:59:22] *** Quits: sobkas (~sobkas@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2754[20:59:34] *** Quits: Jade_NL (~JadeNL@replaced-ip) (Quit: leaving)
2755[20:59:40] *** Joins: brokencycle (~brokencyc@replaced-ip)
2756[20:59:42] <jelly> ratrace: see, _now_ you can go with that, not /raw/
2757[20:59:43] <greycat> You're removing a kernel image package. Hence the calls to update GRUB.
2758[20:59:53] <greycat> The following packages will be REMOVED: clang-9 linux-image-5.3.0-23-generic
2759[21:00:13] <JakeSays> why the hell is it doing that?
2760[21:00:13] <jelly> also, that's not debian
2761[21:00:15] *** Quits: chihchun (sid12545@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2762[21:00:27] <greycat> You're also using Ubuntu. So, bye.
2763[21:00:56] <jelly> JakeSays: blah blah apt blah autoremove unused blah
2764[21:00:58] *** Joins: sobkas (~sobkas@replaced-ip)
2765[21:01:33] <greycat> We need some magical way to filter out these people. Damned if I can think of one, though.
2766[21:01:35] <JakeSays> can you explain to me why it's trying to remove that kernel package?
2767[21:01:38] *** Quits: Tobbi (~Tobbi@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2768[21:01:52] <towo`> because its not a debian kernel :P
2769[21:02:01] <greycat> We can't use an intelligence test, because we're supposed to accept even newbie Debian users.
2770[21:02:16] <towo`> and it's maybe build with clang instead of gcc
2771[21:02:19] <jelly> JakeSays: ask in #ubuntu, it might be an action left over from a previous run
2772[21:02:36] *** Quits: Deihmos (uid212731@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2773[21:02:37] <JakeSays> jelly: i will do that, and thank you for your kindness and help.
2774[21:02:47] <JakeSays> greycat: you're just an ass.
2775[21:03:49] <ajeremias> why nginx complain it cant find rtmp when i install the debian package? its already set in /etc/nginx/mods-enabled ...
2776[21:03:56] <ratrace> jelly: pfft :) I got whole domain blacklisted. :)
2777[21:04:07] <ajeremias> unknown directive "rtmp" in /etc/nginx/nginx.conf
2778[21:04:08] *** Quits: rayjb (~ray@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2779[21:04:33] *** Parts: brondif (~brondif@replaced-ip) ("Leaving")
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2784[21:07:01] <jelly> JakeSays: but he's OUR ass.
2785[21:08:04] <JakeSays> jelly: lol every channel has one, i suppose
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2790[21:09:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1528
2791[21:09:29] <greycat> If my being an ass will drive out the people who aren't supposed to be here (the Ubuntu users, the Kali users, the Parrot users, ...) then I fart in their general direction.
2792[21:09:42] <jelly> ugh, cat farts
2793[21:10:39] <jelly> still it can probably be done with a modicum of undeserved tact
2794[21:10:59] <JakeSays> greycat: i'm going to drive all linux questions people ask me to #debian:greycat.
2795[21:11:00] <greycat> I think I ran out of tact 10 years ago.
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2802[21:14:13] <JakeSays> jelly: tact isn't something that's earned as it is a reflection of the one being being tactless.
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2804[21:14:33] <jelly> JakeSays: yeah, let's skip the metacommentary, we have #debian-offtopic for that
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2806[21:15:04] <JakeSays> jelly: good point. consider it skipped.
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2808[21:15:50] <ratrace> ooh drahma!
2809[21:16:05] <JakeSays> ratrace: nope
2810[21:16:16] <JakeSays> just a community full of love
2811[21:16:21] <ratrace> no, I found a drachma on the floor.
2812[21:16:27] <JakeSays> LOL oh
2813[21:16:43] <ratrace> no, j/k I really meant drama :)
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2818[21:20:08] <jhutchins_wk> jelly: It seems like the buster upgrade headaches have died down quite a bit. Do you see that, or am I just missing them?
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2820[21:20:10] <spacebug^> ajeremias: did you restart nginx after you installed the module?
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2822[21:20:32] <jhutchins_wk> spacebug^: Presumably that's what threw the error.
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2824[21:21:15] <spacebug^> yeah you're right
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2837[21:30:24] <jelly> jhutchins_wk: dunno, I haven't upgraded almost any stretches yet
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2839[21:30:39] <jhutchins_wk> ajeremias: It sounds like you didn't do "load module foo", you just did foo. Did you also include the module conf directory?
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2842[21:31:25] <jhutchins_wk> jelly: I was thinking of traffic here. Yeah, I haven't made the leap yet. I was waiting to see if it smoothed out and the problems were mostly user error.
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2849[21:32:34] <jelly> 2 point releases can make even a rushed init system switch stable.
2850[21:32:38] <ksk> packages.d.o is sloow :(
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2856[21:33:29] <jelly> ksk: tracker.debian.org/packagename has some of the info if you already know what you're looking for
2857[21:33:58] * jelly uses the bots for searching
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2860[21:36:09] <john_rambo> Firefox wont start with firejail. >>>>> replaced-url
2861[21:36:26] <john_rambo> Is there a fix ?
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2864[21:38:07] <ksk> john_rambo: I think relevant lines are already in your paste!? "Error: Access was denied while trying to open files in your profile directory." - configure firejail so firefox can read its profile
2865[21:38:20] <ksk> furtheremore, you *might* want to allow a browser to have networking abiliies
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2868[21:39:19] <john_rambo> ksk, When I start firefox without firejail is works fine ...What exactly should I do ?
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2872[21:40:39] <ksk> john_rambo: read the firejail documentation, and allow firefox to read its profiles and use networking.
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2877[21:42:07] <ryouma> did the new firefox-esr cause formatting problms for anybody? many pages are much wider and require horizontal scrolling.
2878[21:42:11] *** Joins: TheFuzzball (~TheFuzzba@replaced-ip)
2879[21:42:27] <john_rambo> ksk, Besides Debian I also use Manjaro ... Under Manjaro I just do #firejail firefox and FF opens without any issues
2880[21:42:38] <ksk> !based on debian
2881[21:42:38] <dpkg> Your distribution may be based on and have software in common with Debian, but it is not Debian. We don't and cannot know what changes were made by your distribution (compare replaced-url
2882[21:42:48] <ksk> ryouma: you mean the security fix? no problems over here.
2883[21:43:32] <ryouma> ksk: thanks for replyig
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2909[22:03:51] <zylop`> er
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2916[22:06:40] <FuriousGeorge> hey all
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2918[22:07:25] <FuriousGeorge> i had to install a program that has no official debian package. i got it working by using a version of libfam and/or libgamin that is not from the repos
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2920[22:07:33] <FuriousGeorge> now when i try to apt upgrade i get this error:
2921[22:07:34] <FuriousGeorge> qbdbm : Depends: libgamin0 but it is not going to be installed or
2922[22:07:48] *** Joins: gr23 (4968aa45@replaced-ip)
2923[22:07:57] <FuriousGeorge> (qbdbm is the package i installed)
2924[22:08:40] <FuriousGeorge> so i try to get around this by marking the packages for hold. this works for qbdbm but not for libgamin0 or libfam0, presumably because they are not installed from aptitude
2925[22:09:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1535
2926[22:09:06] <FuriousGeorge> hmmm... now that i think about it, wouldn't the solution be to hold qbdbm (which I have done) and block the other two?
2927[22:09:10] *** Joins: rtra (~rtra@replaced-ip)
2928[22:10:02] <greycat> the "solution" would normally be to purge whatever non-Debian or non-your-release-of-Debian packages you installed, then build libfam and/or libgamin from source and install them in /usr/local so that your other thing that you are also building from source and installing in /usr/local can use them
2929[22:10:14] <jelly> FuriousGeorge: older versions than what's in debian right now?
2930[22:10:59] <jelly> ,v libgamin0
2931[22:11:00] <judd> Package: libgamin0 on amd64 -- jessie: 0.1.10-4.1; buster: 0.1.10-5+b1; stretch: 0.1.10-5+b1; bullseye: 0.1.10-6; sid: 0.1.10-6
2932[22:11:14] <jelly> that looks pretty unchanging
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2935[22:11:31] <greycat> that said, I am also skeptical that you actually attmpted to build this qbdbm thing from source in the regular way, so maybe you don't even NEED upstream versions of these libraries
2936[22:11:56] <FuriousGeorge> greycat: iirc, what i did something similar. qbdm is the .rpm-only package that i installed on my system. i achieved this by building libgamin and libfam from source
2937[22:12:07] <greycat> it might be that you just needed to build qbdbm from source using buster's libraries
2938[22:12:23] <FuriousGeorge> i put a hold on qbdbm, even though it isn't in the repos, but nonetheless it complains that it has unmet dependencies
2939[22:12:36] <greycat> ...
2940[22:12:41] <jelly> apt can't work without a consistent state
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2942[22:13:06] <FuriousGeorge> it would be consistent if it just ignored qbdbm and did not install libfam or libgamin
2943[22:13:19] *** Parts: nickodd (~nickodd@replaced-ip) ()
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2945[22:13:30] <FuriousGeorge> i guess, that would not be consistent, because some future app my want libfam or libgamin
2946[22:13:49] *** Quits: rtra (~rtra@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2947[22:14:05] <greycat> QuickBooks Database Server Manager (QBDBMS)
2948[22:14:12] <greycat> so... this thing is PROPRIETARY?!
2949[22:14:24] <FuriousGeorge> i'm not sure that it can be built from source... yes, because it is proprietary
2950[22:14:32] <greycat> Oh, you're screwed.
2951[22:14:35] <FuriousGeorge> lol
2952[22:14:51] <ksk> FuriousGeorge: I suggest contacting the vendor then, on how to run it on your machine ;)
2953[22:15:09] <FuriousGeorge> ksk: it's rpm only, so there is no way
2954[22:15:15] <greycat> I suggest building a virtual machine for it, using whatever operating system it demands.
2955[22:15:33] <greycat> Run it in the VM only, safely tucked away in its little prison.
2956[22:15:34] <FuriousGeorge> i need it to be running on the same fs as my samba domain controller, which is debian
2957[22:15:53] <greycat> *plonk*
2958[22:16:09] * FuriousGeorge googles the word plonk
2959[22:16:32] <ksk> it indicates, you are doing it wrong.
2960[22:17:30] <joepublic> if you don't know what the plonk is, you're probably it
2961[22:17:43] <FuriousGeorge> i guess i could nfsmount the fs from a centos install, and then the samba domain controller can manage permissions
2962[22:17:59] <FuriousGeorge> joepublic: i don't think plonk is an industry term in any industry, though i could be wrong
2963[22:18:08] <jelly> using an actually supported OS platform seems prudent
2964[22:18:09] *** Quits: srgg (~srgg@replaced-ip) (Quit: srgg)
2965[22:18:20] <jmarsden> FuriousGeorge: try typing in /msg dpkg plonk
2966[22:18:27] <nevyn> in au plonk is slang for wine
2967[22:19:00] <jelly> replaced-url
2968[22:19:06] <FuriousGeorge> seems very colloquial
2969[22:19:40] <FuriousGeorge> why can't i just tell my apt that it is not to install libfam, libgamin, or any packages that require it, for the time being?
2970[22:20:00] *** Joins: MogKupo (~mog@replaced-ip)
2971[22:20:00] <jelly> because apt needs a consistent state to work
2972[22:20:05] <FuriousGeorge> somebody said plonk was the sound that a name makes when hitting the ignore list or or killfile. Plonk is British and Canadian slang for cheap wine. "Rodney, you plonker."
2973[22:20:37] <MogKupo> erm, how do I install the full terminfo database on debian? Trying to get something that works properly with Novaterm (yes, on the C128)
2974[22:20:39] <jelly> you could massage the alienized package not to Depends: on anything
2975[22:21:02] *** Quits: UndefinedIsNotAF (~quassel@replaced-ip##) (Quit: ##replaced-url
2976[22:21:03] <jelly> MogKupo: C128 in CP/M mode ought to have ADM3A terminal compatibility
2977[22:21:05] <gr23> ksk, greycat, jelly, I have recently started deploying debian 10 on some of our servers, as always upon first boot I "apt-get install sysvinit-core", reboot and then "apt-get purge systemd" as I have done for a few years now since we have no use for gnome on the server environment. But it seems when I attempt "apt-get install openssh-server" apt
2978[22:21:05] <gr23> is removing sysvinit and forcing me back to systemd
2979[22:21:34] <gr23> can you help me trace back the dependency that is causing this and perhaps a path to override this behavior?
2980[22:21:39] <MogKupo> I'm in C64 mode, I have vt100 that works in black and white and ansi that almost works (get colour but positioning is a bit messed up as tended to happen with ansi implementaitons)
2981[22:21:44] <FuriousGeorge> jelly: ok, then i blacklist libgamin and libfam?
2982[22:21:45] <jelly> MogKupo: so... TERM=adm3a. But I don't know what Novaterm emulater.
2983[22:21:48] <jelly> emulates*
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2986[22:22:33] <jim> gr23, systemd does work pretty good
2987[22:22:45] <jmarsden> ,v openssh-server
2988[22:22:47] <judd> Package: openssh-server on amd64 -- jessie: 1:6.7p1-5+deb8u4; jessie-security: 1:6.7p1-5+deb8u8; stretch-security: 1:7.4p1-10+deb9u6; stretch: 1:7.4p1-10+deb9u7; buster: 1:7.9p1-10+deb10u1; buster-security: 1:7.9p1-10+deb10u1; bullseye: 1:8.1p1-5; sid: 1:8.1p1-5
2989[22:23:11] <gr23> I know, I personally love it... but we cant use it on our server environment
2990[22:23:22] <MogKupo> there used to be a fairly large terminfo database but the default one only has a few types, if I had the full one I might be able to find a common standard that works properly
2991[22:23:30] *** Quits: jfb4 (~jfb4@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2992[22:23:33] <jelly> gr23: "aptitude why systemd"
2993[22:23:43] <greycat> ,info ncurses-term
2994[22:23:45] <judd> Package ncurses-term (misc, standard) in buster/amd64: additional terminal type definitions. Version: 6.1+20181013-2+deb10u2; Size: 478.7k; Installed: 4166k; Homepage: replaced-url
2995[22:23:56] <MogKupo> ahh, thankyou
2996[22:24:03] *** Quits: serban (serban@replaced-ip) (Quit: .)
2997[22:24:07] <greycat> adm31 is in there, anyway
2998[22:24:23] *** Joins: serban (serban@replaced-ip)
2999[22:24:24] <zylop`> Windows XP 6.42.1p2+opermods by KilledKenny :) | The resolv.conf analyzer | And dont come back.....
3000[22:24:24] <MogKupo> hrm, /lib/terminfo is still rather bare
3001[22:24:28] <zylop`> Ops.
3002[22:24:32] <greycat> /usr/share/terminfo/
3003[22:24:48] <MogKupo> ah, there it is, spot on
3004[22:25:23] *** Quits: zylop` (~zylop@replaced-ip) (Quit: not on my box)
3005[22:26:00] <jelly> if you have a C128, why not use the wonderful 640x200 graphics with 80x25 characters!
3006[22:26:17] <jelly> and fast mode! 2MHz, not the measly 1
3007[22:26:50] <MogKupo> I'm already doing that, but in c64 mode
3008[22:26:58] *** Joins: lera (~lera@replaced-ip)
3009[22:27:08] <MogKupo> there are issues with my wifi modem and 128 mode (the 1571 burst mode interferes with it)
3010[22:27:16] <gr23> jelly, fantastic command, thanks you very much! seems udev depends on systemd-sysv and systemd-sysv depends on systemd. What has changed to force this dependency as this does not seem to apply to debian 9? I dont think I can go without udev...
3011[22:27:46] <MogKupo> as my modem uses a few extra pins to get 9600 in c64 mode
3012[22:27:53] <ksk> gr23: may I ask what your reason against systemd is, in the first place? ;)
3013[22:28:40] <greycat> Having systemd installed doesn't mean you use it as init. That's systemd-sysv.
3014[22:28:48] <jelly> MogKupo: I guess you could switch the floppy into slow mode, OPEN1,8,15,"U0>M0"
3015[22:28:56] * jelly wonders why he remembers this
3016[22:29:27] * dvs appreciates jelly giving him VICE commands
3017[22:29:28] <MogKupo> yeah, tried that, locks up, they just conflict with each other, thankfully I use my SD2IEC for most things but have to unplug the modem to use the 1571 in 128 mode
3018[22:30:18] <jelly> ,depends udev
3019[22:30:19] <judd> Package udev in buster/amd64 -- depends: libacl1 (>= 2.2.23), libblkid1 (>= 2.24), libc6 (>= 2.28), libkmod2 (>= 5~), libselinux1 (>= 2.1.9), adduser, dpkg (>= 1.19.3) | systemd-sysv, libudev1 (= 241-7~deb10u2), lsb-base (>= 3.0-6), util-linux (>= 2.27.1).
3020[22:30:23] *** Joins: shirak (~shirak@replaced-ip)
3021[22:30:27] <jelly> "no it doesn't"
3022[22:30:38] * MogKupo blinks
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3025[22:31:20] <MogKupo> it really does, zero drive response, though I have The Servant, maybe that's doing something unusual at 128 boot
3026[22:31:22] <jelly> gr23: that "no it doesn't" was for you; I'm pretty sure you can still have both sysvinit and systemd installed, and update-grub even writes menu entries for both
3027[22:31:27] <MogKupo> oh
3028[22:31:28] <greycat> !stretch sysvinit
3029[22:31:29] <dpkg> To replace systemd with sysvinit in stretch, simply "apt-get install sysvinit-core" and reboot. To switch from systemd to runit in buster or sid, "apt-get install runit-systemd", reboot, "apt-get install runit-init", and reboot again.
3030[22:31:31] <jelly> MogKupo: sorry
3031[22:31:31] *** Quits: phdeswer (~phdeswer@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
3032[22:31:37] <greycat> You don't purge systemd afterward. You leave it alone.
3033[22:31:45] <gr23> graycat... when I attempt to install systemd-sysv and or systemd, apt automatically forces a remove of sysvinit-core
3034[22:31:50] <gr23> graycat! aha
3035[22:31:52] *** Quits: bhoman (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3036[22:32:00] <jelly> but systemd-sysv probably needs to go
3037[22:32:08] *** Joins: f0x2 (f0x@replaced-ip)
3038[22:32:09] <gr23> thank you, let me try that sequence
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3040[22:32:13] <greycat> Yes, installing sysvinit-core should remove systemd-sysv.
3041[22:32:35] <greycat> sysvinit-core has "Conflicts: systemd-sysv, upstart"
3042[22:32:37] *** Joins: bhoman (~quassel@replaced-ip)
3043[22:33:19] <f0x2> Hi could someone help me debug a non-booting debian system. RAID1 with luks and lvm, boot gets stuck on "Volume group "x" not found" and "cannot process volume group"
3044[22:33:39] *** Quits: diogenes_ (~diogenes_@replaced-ip) (Quit: vergissmeinnicht)
3045[22:33:44] *** ravioli is now known as notfelda
3046[22:34:16] <jelly> f0x2: does it not ask for luks passphrase?
3047[22:34:29] <f0x2> it doesn't
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3049[22:34:48] *** Joins: CaptainN (~KevinKeen@replaced-ip)
3050[22:34:52] <jelly> f0x2: mmm, boot a livecd, show the output of "lsblk"
3051[22:34:52] *** Quits: gord (~Max@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
3052[22:34:52] <f0x2> I can manually luksOpen from the initramfs busybox, but then lvm doesn't seem to get loaded?
3053[22:35:03] <apollo13> you can run vgscan
3054[22:35:07] *** Quits: rainfyre (~rainfyre@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3055[22:35:08] <apollo13> vgchange -ay usually after that
3056[22:35:13] *** Quits: FuriousGeorge (477d5f7d@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3057[22:35:13] <jelly> f0x2: after you luksOpen, run "vgchange -ay"
3058[22:35:18] <f0x2> apollo13: vgscan not found in the initramfs
3059[22:35:40] *** Joins: JohnML (~john1@replaced-ip)
3060[22:35:42] <jelly> f0x2: I don't think there are lvm commands inside initramfs other than vgchange
3061[22:35:43] *** Quits: emOne (~emOne@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3062[22:35:52] <gr23> graycat, tried it, both systemd and sysvinit-core can coexist however openssh-server depends on systemd-sysv
3063[22:36:05] <apollo13> initramfs is different, does "lvm vgscan" exist?
3064[22:36:14] *** Joins: gord (~Max@replaced-ip)
3065[22:36:18] <jelly> ,depends openssh-server
3066[22:36:19] <judd> Package openssh-server in buster/amd64 -- depends: adduser (>= 3.9), dpkg (>= 1.9.0), libpam-modules (>= 0.72-9), libpam-runtime (>= 0.76-14), lsb-base (>= 4.1+Debian3), openssh-client (= 1:7.9p1-10+deb10u1), openssh-sftp-server, procps, ucf (>= 0.28), debconf (>= 0.5) | debconf-2.0, libaudit1 (>= 1:2.2.1), libc6 (>= 2.26), libcom-err2 (>= 1.43.9), libgssapi-krb5-2 (>= 1.17), libkrb5-3 (>=
3067[22:36:20] <judd> 1.13~alpha1+dfsg), libpam0g (>= 0.99.7.1), libselinux1 (>= 1.32), libssl1.1 (>= 1.1.1), libsystemd0, libwrap0 (>= 7.6-4~), zlib1g (>= 1:1.1.4).
3068[22:36:30] <f0x2> vgchange exists but does not return (or seem to do?) anything
3069[22:36:35] <jelly> gr23: again, "no, it doesn't"
3070[22:36:46] <f0x2> lvm vgscan also doesn't return anything
3071[22:36:56] *** Quits: DeaDSouL (~DeaDSouL@replaced-ip) (Quit: leaving)
3072[22:36:58] <apollo13> but it didn't throw an error either?
3073[22:36:59] <greycat> gr23: what *exactly* are you seeing that makes you think openssh-server depends on systemd-sysv?
3074[22:37:11] <jelly> !bat
3075[22:37:11] <dpkg> [Basic Apt* Troubleshooting]. To diagnose your problem, we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use replaced-url
3076[22:37:14] *** Quits: fury (uid193779@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
3077[22:37:16] <jelly> gr23: ^
3078[22:37:26] <apollo13> f0x2: if lvm vgscan ran through without an error you can check if /dev/mapper has the nodes
3079[22:37:26] <f0x2> apollo13: nope
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3085[22:37:40] <gr23> ^ reading, thanks
3086[22:37:48] *** Quits: emOne (~emOne@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3087[22:37:51] <greycat> It might be an elogind type thing, maybe possibly.
3088[22:37:54] <jelly> f0x2: did md raid assemble at least?
3089[22:38:07] <gr23> !localized errors
3090[22:38:08] <dpkg> To provide command output in English instead of your native language, set your locale to an English one (e.g. C) prior to running the command, e.g. "LC_ALL=C apt-get -f install".
3091[22:38:20] *** Joins: emOne (~emOne@replaced-ip)
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3098[22:38:51] <f0x2> ahh, debian mounted my raid's the other way around (md126 and md127)
3099[22:38:53] <jelly> gr23: it's possible apt is buggy and can't figure out an alternative dependency, or that there's a less direct dependency somewhere
3100[22:39:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1528
3101[22:39:10] <f0x2> after mounting both, vgchange sees my volume group
3102[22:39:29] <apollo13> mounting them?
3103[22:39:39] *** Quits: chihchun (sid12545@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3104[22:39:47] <f0x2> apollo13: where?
3105[22:39:57] *** Quits: Haudegen (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Quit: Bin weg.)
3106[22:40:03] <jelly> f0x2: make sure /etc/mdadm/mdadm.conf has the arrays needed to mount /, and you need to rebuild initramfs (update-initramfs) after changing it I think
3107[22:40:14] *** Joins: jfb4 (~jfb4@replaced-ip)
3108[22:40:20] *** Joins: Haudegen (~quassel@replaced-ip)
3109[22:40:38] <jelly> I'm assuming boot continues after that vgchange
3110[22:40:45] <apollo13> f0x2: "after mounting both", why are you mounting the raid, I thought you had the vg on that
3111[22:40:58] <f0x2> uhh not mounting, decrypting
3112[22:41:13] <jelly> apollo13: I think they meant "assembling the raid" ie. starting array(s)
3113[22:41:41] <jelly> and then decrypting and then lvm, as the stack usually goes
3114[22:42:15] <f0x2> so the volume group is active, but I'm still just in the initramfs shell
3115[22:42:23] *** Quits: _till_ (~till@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3116[22:42:36] <jelly> f0x2: that's good, now just exit that shell and boot process ought to continue
3117[22:43:20] *** Quits: winy (~vince@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving.)
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3119[22:44:50] *** Quits: llucenic (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3120[22:44:53] *** Joins: frgo (~frgo@replaced-ip)
3121[22:45:10] <f0x2> jelly: it continued boot, I'm now in 'emergency mode'
3122[22:45:22] *** Joins: Chunkyz (~Chunkyz@replaced-ip)
3123[22:45:27] <f0x2> and can't access the console, root account is locked
3124[22:45:42] <jelly> was it locked before?
3125[22:45:49] <f0x2> not sure
3126[22:46:27] <apollo13> well at this point you probably have to reboot and drop directly into a bash shell instead of trying to continue the boot
3127[22:46:29] <jelly> eh, boot a livecd/liveusb. mount and chroot and make sure mdadm.conf has entries.
3128[22:46:40] <apollo13> or livecd, whatever feels easier :D
3129[22:46:43] *** Quits: BazookaTooth (~bob@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3130[22:46:51] <greycat> and maybe set a password for root while you're in there, so you can do single-user mode next time around
3131[22:46:55] *** Parts: jkmg (~jkmg@replaced-ip) ("Leaving")
3132[22:47:06] <jelly> because md127 and md126 is what mdadm uses for temporarily named or foreign arrays
3133[22:47:21] *** Quits: TheFuzzball (~TheFuzzba@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
3134[22:47:34] *** Quits: Space_Man (~Space_Man@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3135[22:47:47] *** Quits: towo` (~towo@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
3136[22:47:52] *** Joins: argusbr (~tls@replaced-ip)
3137[22:48:09] <gr23> jelly, gray, replaced-url
3138[22:48:42] <greycat> libpam-systemd isn't installed?
3139[22:48:50] *** Joins: Space_Man (~Space_Man@replaced-ip)
3140[22:49:09] *** Joins: TheFuzzball (~TheFuzzba@replaced-ip)
3141[22:49:23] <greycat> Ahhh, libpam-systemd depends on systemd-sysv.
3142[22:49:53] <gr23> replaced-url
3143[22:50:07] <gr23> yep, seems like is a circle
3144[22:50:12] *** Joins: chihchun (sid12545@replaced-ip)
3145[22:50:55] *** Joins: leeward (~leeward@replaced-ip)
3146[22:50:59] <gr23> I suspect something significant changed from 9 to 10
3147[22:51:29] <jelly> aptitude shows me a way out, but probably only because I still have stretch repos enabled so systemd-shim is available
3148[22:51:57] <leeward> I'm trying to get X set up on 2 monitors with a pair of PCIE cards. I've got them both showing up in `lspci` but xrandr only shows the 1 card. Anyone have any thoughts?
3149[22:52:01] <greycat> openssh-server has "Recommends: default-logind | logind | libpam-systemd"
3150[22:52:13] <jelly> replaced-url
3151[22:52:26] <jelly> there's elogind instead.
3152[22:52:28] *** Quits: krga (~krgaaa@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
3153[22:52:37] <greycat> Yeah, I mentioned elogind earlier, briefly.
3154[22:52:49] *** Joins: jfb4_ (~jfb4@replaced-ip)
3155[22:52:59] <leeward> (pcie radeon cards, if it matters)
3156[22:53:00] *** Quits: MrFixIt (49f6d74b@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3157[22:53:08] <jelly> gr23: aptitude can be smarter than apt in complex situations like this one
3158[22:53:40] <jelly> hmph!
3159[22:53:43] <jelly> 9) libpam-elogind-compat [1.3 (experimental)]
3160[22:53:47] <jelly> shame!
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3164[22:55:36] <gr23> ok! will try, I managed a workaround... but I cant tell if the system is in a unstable state... let me know what you think
3165[22:55:39] <gr23> replaced-url
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3169[22:56:32] <jelly> that looks pretty clean
3170[22:56:48] <jelly> you'll know on the next reboot
3171[22:56:51] *** Joins: K4r4k (~K4r4k@replaced-ip)
3172[22:57:05] <K4r4k> \join raspberry
3173[22:57:16] <jelly> just because apt is happy doesn't mean the system is usable :-)
3174[22:57:35] *** Quits: gacekjk (~gacekjk@replaced-ip) (Quit: leaving)
3175[22:58:26] <gr23> :D well, openssh-server is running after reboot... I wonder, based on the systemd-sysv depend why installing sysvinit-core did not try to remove openssh-server
3176[22:58:28] <JakeSays> jelly: so my issue is one of the /etc/grub.d scripts is generating an invalid grub.cfg. commented out the offending line in the script and it worked.
3177[22:58:49] *** Quits: leeward (~leeward@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
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3179[23:00:20] <f0x2> jelly, apollo13: am now in an arch liveusb (heresy!), mdadm.conf has the two arrays
3180[23:00:26] *** Quits: jhutchins_wk (~jonathan@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3181[23:01:08] *** Quits: MogKupo (~mog@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
3182[23:01:09] <f0x2> ARRAY /dev/md/{0,1} metadata=1.2 UUID= name=terra:{0,1}
3183[23:01:32] <greycat> gr23: libpam-systemd has a hard Depends on systemd-sysv, but openssh-server only has a Recommends on libpam-systemd
3184[23:01:33] <f0x2> an mdadm --detail --scan gives the same UUID's, so those are correct?
3185[23:01:57] *** Quits: myuser (~myuser@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3186[23:02:33] <jelly> f0x2: matching UUID is important, the rest less so. Verify with "dpkg-reconfigure mdadm" that mdadm initramfs code actually tries to bring up the relevant array for boot. And why not rebuild initramfs for good measure
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3188[23:02:58] *** Quits: thiras (~thiras@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
3189[23:03:15] <jelly> f0x2: I don't know if there's a distinction between /dev/md/0 and /dev/md0 there.
3190[23:03:23] *** Quits: thePiGrepper (~nagato@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3191[23:03:55] *** Joins: BazookaTooth (~bob@replaced-ip)
3192[23:04:17] <f0x2> ohh, I saw a line flash by "skipping because uses keyfile", is that right?
3193[23:04:26] *** Joins: winy (~vince@replaced-ip)
3194[23:04:40] *** Joins: rgr (~user@replaced-ip)
3195[23:04:47] <f0x2> my terminal gets absolutely spammed with depmode ERRORS with 'could not open builtin file'
3196[23:04:55] <f0x2> the internet told me those were harmless tho
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3199[23:06:37] *** Quits: emOne (~emOne@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3200[23:06:48] <f0x2> ahh I think this might be important? "cryptsetup: ERROR: md0_crypt: Source mismatch"
3201[23:07:30] <jelly> it sounds important but i have no idea what it means
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3204[23:08:28] <jelly> f0x2: is /sys and /dev mounted inside chroot?
3205[23:08:58] <f0x2> jelly: yep, I used the arch chroot thingie
3206[23:09:01] <jelly> googles says it might be a consequence of running in chroot
3207[23:09:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1520
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3210[23:09:59] <jelly> is currently opened /dev/mapper/md0_crypt the same name as in crypttab?
3211[23:10:11] *** Quits: greycat (~wooledg@replaced-ip) (Quit: They see me clawin' the love seat / They won't do nothin' 'cause I'm cute and furry)
3212[23:11:15] <f0x2> ahh numbers are reversed
3213[23:11:19] <jelly> again
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3215[23:11:31] <f0x2> ill fix that and try the initramfs again
3216[23:11:36] <jelly> nod
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3221[23:13:29] <gr23> jelly, I think the aptitude solution worked... so the entire problem is caused by openssh-servers' libpam-systemd Recommend (which seems to be there on debian 9 too), am I reading this right? replaced-url
3222[23:13:33] *** Quits: israelnr (bdaceaa0@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3223[23:13:56] <gr23> I did not think a Recommend was a Dependency
3224[23:13:57] *** Quits: winy (~vince@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving.)
3225[23:14:08] *** Parts: hobbanero (~hobbanero@replaced-ip) ("Leaving")
3226[23:14:30] *** Quits: luuuciano (~luuuciano@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
3227[23:14:38] <jelly> it's considered a hard dependency by default but that can be changed from CLI for one command, or from apt.conf
3228[23:14:50] <jelly> !recommends
3229[23:14:58] <jelly> !apt_recommends
3230[23:15:03] * jelly sighs
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3234[23:15:33] <jelly> !apt-recommends
3235[23:15:33] <dpkg> Packages required in all but unusual cases (that is, "breakable" dependencies) are called "recommended" packages. By not installing these packages, you miss the standard functionality they provide. To disable once, "aptitude -R install packagename" or "apt-get --no-install-recommends install packagename". To disable permanently, echo "APT::Install-Recommends no;" > /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/no-recommends. See <why recommends>.
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3241[23:18:24] <f0x2> well no errors this time around generating the initramfs
3242[23:18:28] <f0x2> crossing fingers and rebooting
3243[23:18:29] <gr23> that is it! thank you so much jelly... you are solid help!
3244[23:18:38] *** Quits: [Brain] (~brain@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
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3246[23:19:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1513
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3248[23:19:52] <gr23> I wonder why our Debian SSH maintainers thought we would be missing standard functionality my not having libpam-systemd when libpam is available, very strange indeed
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3251[23:21:07] <f0x2> jelly: booted succesfully!!
3252[23:21:23] <f0x2> just one hiccup, waiting for two partitions to come online that didn't
3253[23:21:51] *** Joins: krzych (krzych@replaced-ip)
3254[23:22:18] *** Joins: holden- (~holden-@replaced-ip)
3255[23:22:28] *** Quits: donofrio (~donofrio@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
3256[23:22:49] *** Joins: luuuciano (~luuuciano@replaced-ip)
3257[23:22:49] *** Joins: jfb4 (~jfb4@replaced-ip)
3258[23:23:52] <f0x2> can I view the boot log after startup?
3259[23:23:56] *** Quits: jfb4_ (~jfb4@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
3260[23:24:10] *** Joins: consecuenc (bab72784@replaced-ip)
3261[23:24:26] *** Quits: u0_a119 (~u0_a119@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3262[23:24:38] <f0x2> ah journalctl -b
3263[23:25:01] *** Quits: Akuw (~Akuw@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3264[23:27:05] *** Joins: saundkim (~saundkim@replaced-ip)
3265[23:27:38] *** Quits: rwcom (~rwcom@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
3266[23:27:54] <f0x2> ah, the encrypted swap partition isn't cooperating
3267[23:28:36] *** Joins: rtra (~rtra@replaced-ip)
3268[23:28:57] <f0x2> because of a wrong uuid it seems
3269[23:30:31] *** Joins: rwcom (~rwcom@replaced-ip)
3270[23:30:59] *** Joins: spec_man (~user@replaced-ip)
3271[23:31:54] *** Quits: bhoman (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3272[23:31:54] *** Quits: ceska (~Cieska@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3273[23:32:08] *** Quits: dvs (~hibbard@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
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3275[23:32:32] *** Quits: ceska (~Cieska@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
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3277[23:32:48] *** Joins: greatgatsby (~greatgats@replaced-ip)
3278[23:32:56] *** Joins: ceska (~Cieska@replaced-ip)
3279[23:33:07] *** Joins: guardian (~guardian@replaced-ip)
3280[23:33:13] *** Joins: deviance0 (~deviance@replaced-ip)
3281[23:33:42] <deviance0> nice
3282[23:33:58] *** Quits: ceska (~Cieska@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3283[23:34:50] *** Joins: jsvcycling (sid369784@replaced-ip)
3284[23:35:19] *** Parts: deviance0 (~deviance@replaced-ip) ("WeeChat 2.6")
3285[23:35:20] *** Joins: allorder (~allorder@replaced-ip)
3286[23:35:30] *** Quits: ballot (~darkalia@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
3287[23:36:03] *** Quits: m0u (~m0u@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3288[23:37:32] *** Quits: rtra (~rtra@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3289[23:38:46] *** Joins: ceska (~Cieska@replaced-ip)
3290[23:39:40] *** Quits: mmx_in_orbit (~mmx_in_sp@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
3291[23:40:05] *** Quits: c0rnelius (~Cornelius@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3292[23:40:10] *** Joins: rtra (~rtra@replaced-ip)
3293[23:40:16] *** Joins: olivetree_ (~oliveira@replaced-ip)
3294[23:40:23] *** Joins: c0rnelius (~Cornelius@replaced-ip)
3295[23:41:04] *** Parts: gr23 (4968aa45@replaced-ip) ()
3296[23:41:12] *** Joins: zyun (~zyun@replaced-ip)
3297[23:44:53] *** Quits: Guest22246 (~wwilliam@replaced-ip) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
3298[23:45:02] *** Quits: vetru (~vetru@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3299[23:45:21] *** Joins: vetru (~vetru@replaced-ip)
3300[23:45:43] *** Quits: zyun (~zyun@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
3301[23:46:35] *** Quits: saundkim (~saundkim@replaced-ip) (Quit: saundkim)
3302[23:47:56] *** Joins: wwilliam (~wwilliam@replaced-ip)
3303[23:48:31] *** Quits: m1dnight_ (~m1dnight@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3304[23:49:11] *** Quits: pringau (~pringau@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
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3306[23:50:56] *** Joins: FuzzyByte (~u0_a225@replaced-ip)
3307[23:51:18] *** Quits: FuzzyByte (~u0_a225@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
3308[23:52:53] *** Joins: longerstaff13 (~androirc@replaced-ip)
3309[23:54:15] *** Joins: ballot (~darkalia@replaced-ip)
3310[23:54:52] *** Quits: platvoeten (~platvoete@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3311[23:54:56] *** Quits: rtra (~rtra@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3312[23:54:56] *** Joins: jwnskanzkwk (~jwnskanzk@replaced-ip)
3313[23:55:00] *** Joins: happycrappy (~mes@replaced-ip)
3314[23:55:09] *** Joins: FuzzyByte (~u0_a225@replaced-ip)
3315[23:55:35] *** Joins: tehnull (~tehnull@replaced-ip)
3316[23:56:46] *** Joins: jfb4_ (~jfb4@replaced-ip)
3317[23:57:23] *** Quits: emOne (~emOne@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3318[23:58:02] *** Quits: jfb4 (~jfb4@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
3319[23:58:34] *** Quits: lera (~lera@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3320[23:59:55] *** Joins: dArK_IcE (~lawl@replaced-ip)
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