People who Joins , Parts or Quits a chatroom
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2021-06-01)
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132 [01:42:22] <yans> y0!
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147 [01:50:09] <cybercrypto> !backports
148 [01:50:10] <dpkg> A backport is a package from a newer Debian
branch, compiled from source for an older branch to avoid dependency
and <ABI> complications.
replaced-url
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180 [02:16:07] <ryouma> i rely on the frontend to debconf called
"text". this frontend used to exist, and is still accepted
with -p to dpkg-reconfigure. however, it is not provided as a
default option when you do dpkg-reconfigure debconf. what is the
deal?
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188 [02:23:43] <themill> ryouma: it was more likely
"readline"
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193 [02:26:54] <ryouma> themill: i have tried both using
dpkg-reconfigure -freadline (or -ftext, or some nonsense to see if
it objects) on the grub-pc package. it objects to nonsense (i.e.
that is not a frontend). readline fails in emacs shellit does not
list the options. text is accepted, and fails much less bad. the
only problem i know there is it doesn't show the existing
drive. but text is not available as an option in dpkg-reconf
194 [02:26:54] <ryouma> igure debconf.
195 [02:28:45] <themill> I've never heard of
"text" as a debconf frontend. debconf(7) says you should
install libterm-readline-gnu-perl for "readline". If emacs
is the problem, then don't do that.
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197 [02:29:54] <ryouma> i always use (and always have for many
debian versions) emacs shell for installing, upgrading,
dist-upgrading, and installing grub to a drive. i'd really like
something that works instead of this seeming regression.
198 [02:30:25] <themill> text might well be a synonym for
readline. It's not documented as such
199 [02:30:42] <ryouma> text works mostly, but readline does not
200 [02:31:02] <themill> they look identical here.
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202 [02:33:00] <themill> the bts is full of bugs about trying to
interact with debconf through emacs
203 [02:33:08] <ryouma> huh
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206 [02:33:56] <ryouma> i wonder what the best solution is that
allows you to work with emacs shell mode like before. i think you
might be right about readline... but it did seem to fail before. but
i will try it instead of text sothat if text disappears it will
still sort of work.
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209 [02:36:01] <ryouma> i want to temporarily make the editor
frontend work with an editor (or shell script) that i choose. is
this possible?
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252 [03:17:02] <maqr> i'm having an issue with
dropbear-initramfs where /etc/dropbear-initramfs/authorized_keys is
an exact copy of ~/.ssh/authorized_keys (which works via ssh), but
dropbear fails with a public key error... any idea how i could debug
it? according to the docs, this should work
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259 [03:20:55] <maqr> i confirmed that authorized_keys is showing
up in lsinitramfs, and there were no warnings about that file being
invalid when i did update-initramfs (which i learned happens if you
do have the wrong key format)
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269 [03:24:08] <maqr> oh, wait, maybe i've done something
stupid... trying again
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361 [04:47:23] <dyy> hello
362 [04:47:24] <dyy> test
363 [04:48:49] <grisher> test
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368 [04:50:05] <dyy> what to do after installing debian mate
edition?
369 [04:50:10] <dyy> just akin
370 [04:50:14] <dyy> askin
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375 [04:51:27] <grisher> what do you mean what to do
376 [04:52:04] <sponix> dyy: Google "first 10 things to do
on Debian 10" ... There should be 3-5 list that pop up
377 [04:52:26] *** Joins: TW1920 (~quassel@replaced-ip )
378 [04:52:34] <sponix> dyy: most people use the OS... Ya know,
to run apps, and do things
379 [04:52:48] *** Joins: braciszekodd (~braciszek@replaced-ip )
380 [04:53:12] <dyy> I am switching from windows to linux
381 [04:53:39] <dyy> the setup was a bit confusing but now I got
linux running on my lapie
382 [04:53:39] *** Quits: pacbard (~pacbard@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
383 [04:53:50] <sponix> dyy: congrats
384 [04:54:26] <dyy> thanks
385 [04:54:35] <dyy> parrot os is my choice
386 [04:54:41] <sponix> when you break it, and want a lil easier
setup/install/config ... Might try MX Linux next go around.
Streamlines a lot for me
387 [04:55:12] <sponix> dyy: So, you are attempting to h4x0r the
planet ?
388 [04:55:35] *** Joins: pacbard (~pacbard@replaced-ip )
389 [04:55:45] <dyy> sponix: aahahah
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417 [05:21:38] <maqr> dropbear-initramfs is awesome, now i can
unlock my machine remotely :D
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465 [06:23:23] <grisher> ps s
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513 [07:24:02] <NetGirl> any opinions or thoughts on
unattendedugrades?
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515 [07:26:44] <nkuttler> NetGirl: bad
516 [07:26:55] <NetGirl> nkuttler: how/why?
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523 [07:32:55] <vvor> NetGirl: BAD. as it's unattended...
524 [07:33:37] *** Joins: njka (~njka@replaced-ip )
525 [07:33:44] <NetGirl> well.. sometimes you're at vacation
and you just wanna relax for a month without attending anything
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527 [07:34:05] <vvor> NetGirl: Unless you have a fail safe
system. Let it be.
528 [07:34:10] *** Joins: AgTh (~b50c6@replaced-ip )
529 [07:34:28] <NetGirl> and boom, a 0 day exploit enters the
arena
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531 [07:34:59] <NetGirl> it's peoples mail
532 [07:35:11] <NetGirl> backup essential I guess.
533 [07:36:10] <NetGirl> how do you even upgrade something
that's running such as a web server if you're on a VPS?
534 [07:36:22] <NetGirl> if people are using the service
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538 [07:38:52] <jelly> NetGirl: schedule downtime, instead of
hoping the distro unattended process gets it 100% right
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540 [07:39:46] <jelly> it's a newis feature, and sometimes
it doesn't
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542 [07:39:58] <jelly> newish
543 [07:40:22] <Logan2000> Does anyone use tvheadend?
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546 [07:42:34] <RoyK> NetGirl: I've used unatteded upgrades
for years - it works
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548 [07:43:40] <RoyK> vvor: seriously - how often do things break
doring an apt upgrade?
549 [07:44:51] <RoyK> NetGirl: unless you're babysitting
your machine 24x7, unattended-upgrades is a good idea
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551 [07:46:00] <RoyK> jelly: unattended-upgrades don't
reboot your machine by default
552 [07:47:32] <jelly> RoyK: I didn't say anything about
reboot being the only or even the major failure mode
553 [07:47:33] <NetGirl> I've got basically no experience so
this is really hard for me to make a call on :D
554 [07:48:03] <NetGirl> I'll update manually until I get
bored enough to automate it and then experience the difference I
guess
555 [07:48:19] <annadane> i think for me my own personal approach
if i went on vacation or something is just to shut off the pc and
apply the updates when i get back; when i use my computer daily, i
run the apt operations myself
556 [07:48:35] <annadane> unattended upgrades is great for
servers
557 [07:48:59] <NetGirl> this is intended for servers
558 [07:49:13] <RoyK> NetGirl: I use it on all my servers
559 [07:49:24] <NetGirl> does it restart the services as well?
560 [07:49:25] <RoyK> NetGirl: it's reasonably safe
561 [07:49:28] <RoyK> yes
562 [07:49:32] <jelly> I use it on none of my servers, and
can't trust it.
563 [07:49:43] <jelly> YMMV :-)
564 [07:49:49] <vvor> NetGirl: It is a very easy call. If it
breaks I deal with it in this way... And this outcome is OK with
me/my boss.
565 [07:49:52] <RoyK> jelly: it works, bro ;)
566 [07:50:10] <NetGirl> well, imagine a 0 day hitting the scene
while you're getting ready for bed.. could take a day before
you check your server.
567 [07:50:16] <RoyK> vvor: it hasn't broken any of my stuff
in five years
568 [07:50:30] <RoyK> vvor: and I manage quite a few machines
569 [07:50:33] <jelly> RoyK: I've seen how it works in the
distro that invented it. Maybe it got better.
570 [07:50:51] <NetGirl> jelly: have you had problems with it?
571 [07:51:04] <RoyK> 1982 perhaps
572 [07:51:09] <kadiro> some keys sudently stop orking ho to fix
tht
573 [07:51:38] <NetGirl> I suppose it'd be annoying if it
upgraded and restarted for minor non-important updates
574 [07:52:06] <RoyK> NetGirl: it won't restart unless it
has to and if you expicitly configure it to do so
575 [07:52:13] <jelly> it restarts affected services by necessity
576 [07:52:17] <RoyK> the server, that is
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578 [07:52:26] <kadiro> it hppen mny times by the y
579 [07:52:53] <NetGirl> does it only update if it's
critical?
580 [07:53:05] <RoyK> NetGirl: that's configurable
581 [07:53:08] <jelly> server restart is 10-30s downtime when you
have a VM, that's less problematic
582 [07:53:13] <RoyK> NetGirl: just install it and check the
config
583 [07:53:24] <RoyK> NetGirl: then uninstall it if you
don't like it
584 [07:53:49] <kadiro> test
585 [07:54:11] <RoyK> NetGirl: generally, you can choose between
security updates, updates or dist-upgrade, and if you want it to
reboot on demand, and if so, when and so forth
586 [07:54:19] <kadiro> aqwzsxedc it seems it magically orking
agin
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589 [07:56:21] <kadiro> I think this is the cause: service
name='org.freedesktop.PackageKit'
unit='packagekit.service' requested by ':1.185'
(uid=0 pid=19584 comm="/usr/bin/gdbus call --system --dest
org.freedeskto")
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594 [07:58:17] <kadiro> maybe not
595 [08:00:23] <kadiro> journalctl doesn't show usefull info
about what is it
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597 [08:01:01] <kadiro> I will conclude it is just a hardware
problem
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600 [08:04:02] <kadiro> I was right, the cable have some cutting
wires or they are going to be cutted soon
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##replaced-url
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619 [08:17:44] <melpy> nice keyboard 'w'
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721 [09:41:20] <laughingtiger> debian 10 is so stable that I
begin to feel bored.
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727 [09:43:35] <ratrace> laughingtiger: you can always bump to
sid
728 [09:43:56] <grisher> i use sid and never have issues tho
729 [09:44:25] <laughingtiger> ratrace, well, sometime in the
future I'll try. thank you for the advice.
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737 [09:48:50] <annadane> lol
738 [09:48:58] <annadane> debian complaint: "works too
well"
739 [09:49:42] <Kharec> users are never happy, they're
humans.
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743 [09:51:30] <ratrace> !next
744 [09:51:30] <dpkg> Another happy customer leaves the building.
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752 [09:57:57] <Sepultura> hallo
753 [09:58:03] <Sepultura> anyone knows a good bulk renamer where
I can change a character in subdirectories in a directory?
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767 [10:12:33] <Kyros> bash
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772 [10:16:21] <Wulf> rename?
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776 [10:20:51] <parity> aww :c
777 [10:21:18] <ratrace> Sepultura: give an example?
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787 [10:27:49] <Tuor> ratrace: The problem I had with OpenSSH, it
was a virtual network adapter problem (probably). I changed the
networkadapter and couldn't reproduce the problem. So it seems
it's only that simple...
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790 [10:28:28] <ratrace> Tuor: but putty worked fine
791 [10:30:35] <Tuor> yes and no. Putty could not kill the VM,
but later we installed nginx on the VM and used it. As soon as we
did load a page with a lot of content (via the nginx) the VM freezed
again. We did a lot of testing/debugging and just 15 min ago, I
tested to change the network adapter and I can't reproduce the
problem (not with Windows 10 OpenSSH and not with web pages with a
lot of content).
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795 [10:32:45] <gremel_lemerg> May I get some help with mounting
a CD drive? Updated to 10.1 and the cdrom is no longer mounted. It
is being detected as it shows a device in dmesg, however it states
*-cdrom UNCLAIMED when lshw is run.
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797 [10:33:17] <gremel_lemerg> It seems like it is not creating a
point in /dev ?
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801 [10:36:23] <NetGirl> older npm version in debian doesn't
support the latest version of nodejs in debians repo.. is it known?
Do I have to compile it myself?
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803 [10:37:15] <gremel_lemerg> If it's of any help, wodim
shows the following: 0 dev='/dev/sg1' rwrw-- :
'PLDS' 'DVD+-RW DU-8A5LH'
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873 [11:31:47] <dka> Hi
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875 [11:31:54] <dka> I just noticed that the lockscreen on debian
is not secure
876 [11:32:20] <dka> is it cinnamon or debian?
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882 [11:36:22] <Habbie> dka, in what way is it not secure?
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884 [11:36:44] <annadane> the lock screen is very probably
cinnamon specific but i don't know what it uses
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886 [11:38:40] <annadane> but yeah please clarify not secure
887 [11:38:42] <annadane> that's really vague
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889 [11:39:01] <dka> Habbie, if you use another display, then the
resolution of the lock screen can change and you can access the
desktop and the lock screen at the same time
890 [11:39:10] <Habbie> dka, oh that's a fun bug
891 [11:39:13] <dka> I just did it, I was able to surf on chrome
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893 [11:39:50] <dka> I have 3 screen, the laptop screen which is
default res 4k UHD, I use it in 1980x1080, it was close, lock screen
on, I opened the laptop, and was in
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896 [11:40:44] <dka> that's not really fun it gives full
access to the user's desktop, it's kind of lame
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899 [11:42:22] <annadane> dka, file a bug
900 [11:42:26] <dka> no
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902 [11:42:37] <dka> I will use it on my boss's
903 [11:42:52] <dka> add extra $$ on my paycheck
904 [11:42:55] <dka> then I'll fill a bug
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909 [11:45:56] * annadane wonders whether this will become a
'won't fix; debian stable doesn't get those fixes;
fixed in sid'
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957 [12:20:19] <boktan> i did installed snapd and any snap app i
run i get this error : libGL error: No matching fbConfigs or visuals
foundlibGL error: failed to load driver: swrast how to fix it?
958 [12:20:52] <dob1> hi, capturing tcp traffic on an host with
tcpdump tcpdump host ip proto tcp -> no, tcpdump tcp host ip
-> no, tcpdump host ip and proto tcp -> no, how is the right
syntax
959 [12:20:53] <dob1> ?
960 [12:21:49] <jpw> dobl: host <ip> and not tcp
961 [12:21:58] <dob1> I want tcp
962 [12:22:03] <jpw> dobl: host <ip> and tcp
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964 [12:22:18] <dob1> damn! thanks
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1017 [12:53:29] <peanatsu> hi, I want to install an older java
version (openjdk-8) on debian Buster. how would I go about doing
that?
1018 [12:53:57] <peanatsu> (Buster only has openjdk-11 in the
packages)
1019 [12:54:14] <eightyone> Good morning
1020 [12:54:41] <Wulf> peanatsu: fetch the old source package and
compile it yourself. Didn't try, maybe works, maybe
doesn't.
1021 [12:54:50] <kadiro> buster ==> openjdk-8-jre - OpenJDK
Java runtime, using Hotspot JIT
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1023 [12:55:31] <Habbie> ,v openjdk-8-jre
1024 [12:55:33] <judd> Package: openjdk-8-jre on amd64 -- stretch:
8u222-b10-1~deb9u1; stretch-proposed-updates: 8u232-b09-1~deb9u1;
stretch-security: 8u232-b09-1~deb9u1; sid: 8u232-b09-1
1025 [12:55:42] <Habbie> kadiro, are you sure?
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1027 [12:55:54] <Habbie> i only see nvidia-openjdk-8-jre/stable
which seems a bit special
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1029 [12:56:14] <kadiro> Habbie, yeah that what i get with
apt-cache search
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1031 [12:56:29] <Habbie> kadiro, that is weird
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1033 [12:56:45] <Habbie> kadiro, can you pastebin the output of
'apt-cache policy openjdk-8-jre'?
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1035 [12:56:59] <kadiro> Habbie, maybe because I upgraded from
stretch to buster
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1040 [12:57:07] <Habbie> kadiro, even then it should not be
visible any more
1041 [12:57:10] <Habbie> but, i have to go
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1044 [12:57:43] <kadiro>
replaced-url
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1048 [12:58:54] <jpw> stretch and sid only... that doesn't
seem right
1049 [12:59:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1574
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1052 [13:00:52] <kadiro> I think I have a mixing repos :D
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1054 [13:01:37] <jpw> the mythical Debian/Fowardports
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1056 [13:01:52] <kadiro> ,v openjdk-8-jre
1057 [13:01:53] <judd> Package: openjdk-8-jre on amd64 -- stretch:
8u222-b10-1~deb9u1; stretch-proposed-updates: 8u232-b09-1~deb9u1;
stretch-security: 8u232-b09-1~deb9u1; sid: 8u232-b09-1
1058 [13:02:16] <kadiro> hmm same result as Habbie
1059 [13:02:29] <peanatsu> well, actually I think I will just go
with adopt openjdk as recommended in #java, but thanks for the
effort guys
1060 [13:02:33] <Habbie> kadiro, of course ;)
1061 [13:02:53] <Habbie>
replaced-url
1062 [13:02:54] <judd> Bug
replaced-url
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1115 [13:57:00] <TandyUK>
replaced-url
1116 [13:57:09] <TandyUK> anyone got any clues on wtf mught be
goign on here?
1117 [13:57:37] <TandyUK> can wget a file from
security.debian.org, but debmirror fails with "network is
unreachable"
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1119 [13:58:42] <jpw> do you have the env `http_proxy` set?
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1121 [13:59:14] <TandyUK> theres no proxy no
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1123 [13:59:56] <TandyUK> no proxy related env vars exist either
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1125 [14:00:51] <TandyUK> no selinux/apparmour either, and ipv6 is
disabled on the host
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1127 [14:01:05] <TandyUK> been through everything i can think of,
never seen anything like this lol
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1130 [14:02:37] <TandyUK> fwiw, this is being invoked from
cobbler, but same happens when runnign the command directly
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1132 [14:02:49] <TandyUK> just adding a deb10 mirror to see if it
does the same thing
1133 [14:02:56] <Dagger> well maybe you should enable v6 then.
perhaps that will be able to reach it
1134 [14:03:23] <TandyUK> the wan its using has no ipv6 anyway, so
that wouldnt help
1135 [14:03:35] <TandyUK> and i can wget/httping using v4 without
issues
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1140 [14:05:06] <Dagger> there are no SRV records for
archive.debian.org so it has nothing to do with that...
1141 [14:05:16] <Akuw> i need to convert 5DC0BB7B0000035A to
decimal and date time
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1145 [14:05:57] <jpw> TandyUK: valid point though try disabling
ipv6 and try again
1146 [14:06:08] <TandyUK> ipv6 is already disabled
1147 [14:06:21] <Dagger> ...people really can't help
themselves, can they?
1148 [14:06:25] <TandyUK> the host used to have v6 locally,
disabled that yesterday
1149 [14:06:27] <Dagger> stop recommending that we disable v6 left
and right :/
1150 [14:06:31] <Wulf> Akuw: okay, what's keeping you from
doing it?
1151 [14:07:02] <Akuw> is a saved value and i need to convert to
date and time
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1153 [14:07:15] <Dagger> maybe debmirror does the download as an
unprivileged user, and you've got something that blocks
internet access in that case?
1154 [14:07:22] <Wulf> >>>
str(datetime.fromtimestamp(0x5DC0BB7B0000035A / 2**32))
1155 [14:07:22] <Wulf> '2019-11-05 00:59:55'
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1161 [14:08:17] <cybrNaut> i'm trying to "aptitude
upgrade". The new kernel forces an update of initramfs-tools,
which falls over because it assumes I have an encrypted swap =>
W: initramfs-tools configuration sets RESUME=/dev/mapper/sda5_crypt
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1163 [14:08:56] <cybrNaut> how can i force the initramfs-tools
installer to use /dev/sda5?
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1167 [14:12:00] <cybrNaut> i tried putting
"RESUME=/dev/sda5" in
/etc/initramfs-tools/initramfs-tools.conf -- makes no difference
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1169 [14:12:26] <Akuw> Wulf: from console?
1170 [14:12:47] <Akuw> bash: syntax error near unexpected token
`datetime.fromtimestamp'
1171 [14:12:59] <jelly> cybrNaut: a) edit
/etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d/resume b) the warning is not fatal,
initramfs gets built anyway
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1173 [14:13:04] <Akuw> str(datetime.fromtimestamp(0 x
5DC0BB7B0000035A / 2**32)
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1177 [14:14:11] <cybrNaut> jelly: thanks!
1178 [14:14:11] <jelly> Akuw: why are you sourcing what looks like
python code, in bash?!
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1182 [14:15:42] <Akuw> bash
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1184 [14:17:11] <jelly> Akuw: Wulf pasted some python code, not
shell
1185 [14:19:45] <cybrNaut> jelly: now I get "cryptsetup:
WARNING: failed to detect canonical device of /dev/sda5", so it
seems to still be assuming swap is encrypted. You say it's
non-fatal, but b/c "aptitude upgrade" fails the
initramfs-tools package never gets upgraded. Is that going to cause
problems if I reboot with this new kernel?
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1200 [14:29:45] <muhaha> Guys, I need help with MDADM. If I create
RAID5 with three disks ( WD Red 3TB ), make FS, copy data from
fourth disk ( also WD Red 3TB ), then I delete fourth disk and use
it as fourth disk in RAID5, will it blend? Or is there any other
method how to not delete data from disk, but make a RAID5 ?
Obviously I have not spare disk to transfer my data.
1201 [14:29:46] <muhaha> Thanks
1202 [14:29:49] <Wulf> Akuw: d=5DC0BB7B0000035A; date -d $(printf
"@%d.%03d" $((0x${d:0:8})) $((0x${d:8:8})))
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1208 [14:40:22] <jim> muhaha, you should have some non raid
storage for backups
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1212 [14:42:20] <TandyUK> regardless of the storage type (raid is
not a backup), you cant call it a backup if its on the same system
1213 [14:42:43] <TandyUK> this PSU failures which kill ALL disks
for example (rare, but not impossible)
1214 [14:42:46] <TandyUK> think*
1215 [14:43:33] <TandyUK> 3,2,1 rule for backups: 3 copies of
data, 2 different storage mediums, 1 of which is off-site
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1217 [14:43:41] <jelly> muhaha: that's fine. If you know in
advance you're going to have 4 members, you can also create a
degraded raid5 with 4th member as "missing"
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1219 [14:44:01] <jelly> muhaha: #linux-raid channel is great for
mdadm questions.
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1223 [14:44:43] * tMH is gone. nsf
1224 [14:44:49] <jelly> jim: backup solution is always independent
of online raid setup. It could be raid as well.
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1226 [14:45:53] <TandyUK> in windows world, ive come across
clients doing backups of eg "C:\user\...\documents" to
"C:\Backup" and thinking they were safe lol
1227 [14:46:28] <greycat> That's fine if the backup is only
supposed to protect the files from being corrupted by software.
1228 [14:46:37] <greycat> Or by accidental user deletion, etc.
1229 [14:46:52] <TandyUK> by definition, thats "a copy of the
files", and not a "backup"
1230 [14:47:09] <TandyUK> backup should protect you against
catastrophic system failure
1231 [14:47:23] <airstorm> hey, quick question, where does debian
keep its source code for the linux kernel (with all distro-specific
patches applied)? I'm looking for buster 4.19
1232 [14:47:43] <greycat>
replaced-url
1233 [14:48:13] <airstorm> ty
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1241 [14:51:37] <tarzeau> is anyone using oomd in here? i keep
getting "/sys/fs/cgroup is not a valid cgroup2 filesystem"
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1243 [14:52:44] <Akuw> Wulf: that is UTC or local time
1244 [14:52:47] <Akuw> ?
1245 [14:53:00] <gnomelight> hello, does anyone know how to
disable gnome composite effects? i am looking for speeds comparable
to gnome-flashback
1246 [14:53:27] <Wulf> Akuw: local
1247 [14:53:34] <gnomelight> right now i have animations disabled
1248 [14:53:36] <Akuw> ok thanks
1249 [14:53:43] <Wulf> Akuw: date -u prints utc
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1251 [14:54:10] <k_sze> Does anybody know which page of the Debian
wiki this could be talking about?
1252 [14:54:11] <k_sze>
replaced-url
1253 [14:54:23] <Wulf> Akuw: or use date -R. well, "man
date"
1254 [14:54:57] <Akuw> i have to make an script to convert the 4th
column of a big file now
1255 [14:55:21] <cybrNaut> am i fucked, if I reboot after a kernel
update if the initramfs-tools package cannot be updated at the same
time?
1256 [14:55:36] <Wulf> Akuw: awk and cut can extract columns.
1257 [14:55:39] <cybrNaut> is it okay for initramfs-tools to stay
behind?
1258 [14:55:44] <Wulf> Akuw: Or you use a proper programming
language like python.
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1262 [14:57:24] <gnomelight> k_sze, it appears to be this page
replaced-url
1263 [14:57:37] <Akuw> i will use awk
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1271 [14:59:17] * tMH is gone. nsf
1272 [14:59:27] <gnomelight> k_sze, this also appears to have bits
related to the info referenced in that post
replaced-url
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1274 [14:59:48] <k_sze> right
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1278 [15:00:57] <gnomelight>
replaced-url
1279 [15:01:35] <gnomelight> these three should cover all the bits
that post is talking about
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1285 [15:09:11] <Akuw> how can i convert same with awk?
1286 [15:09:15] <Akuw> Wulf
1287 [15:10:47] <Akuw> awk: line 2: function strtonum never
defined
1288 [15:10:50] <Akuw> why?
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1296 [15:15:38] <Wulf> Akuw: I don't use awk a lot.
1297 [15:15:48] <Akuw> ok
1298 [15:15:50] <Wulf> it's awkward. Python is better ;-)
1299 [15:15:55] <Akuw> let me ask in #awk
1300 [15:16:07] <Akuw> yes, i will start working with python
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1462 [17:23:40] <dfive> Hello. Why does Debian go down?
1463 [17:23:46] <overbythere> o.o
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1465 [17:23:56] <dfive> I was copying to it via ssh :)
1466 [17:24:59] <dfive> Maybe because I installed gnome?
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1477 [17:29:31] <zodd> dfive, define ¨down¨ ?
1478 [17:29:59] <zodd> running out of resources? (ram, cpu, disk)
1479 [17:30:24] <dfive> it hibernates
1480 [17:30:35] <dfive> imho - goes to sleep
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1482 [17:30:43] <greycat> ran out of battery?
1483 [17:31:43] <zleap> oops
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1490 [17:33:10] <dfive> just wanted to share this
1491 [17:33:20] <dfive> cya
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1493 [17:33:21] <dfive> :)
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1496 [17:34:07] <zodd> is there a #debian-therapy ?
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1500 [17:35:05] <pizzaiolo> zodd no but there's always
#trivialand to distract you from life
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1502 [17:35:22] <zodd> cool
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1598 [18:40:52] <ctcx> In a command-line-only Debian, is there a
way to get current Monitor's hardware resolution in pixels,
without X11 tools?
1599 [18:41:13] <ctcx> xdpyinfo needs Xorg installed...
1600 [18:42:35] <jelly> ctcx: in general no, but you can try fbset
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1608 [18:44:36] <greycat> maybe something in the edid-decode
package?
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1613 [18:46:24] <Kats99> i added a ufw rule to deny port 22 yet if
i run nmap i get port 22 as open for ssh
1614 [18:46:35] <Kats99> how do i close port 22
1615 [18:46:49] *** Quits: __marco (~marco@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1616 [18:46:54] <greycat> The easiest way? systemctl stop ssh
1617 [18:46:55] *** Quits: jasonwc (~jasonwc@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1618 [18:47:05] <greycat> What is your actual goal?
1619 [18:47:05] *** Quits: greatgatsby (~greatgats@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1620 [18:47:24] <ctcx> jelly: thanks very much sir
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1622 [18:47:38] <Kats99> i ran nmap and it said 998 ports closed.
902 and 22 were open. i wanna close them
1623 [18:47:58] <jelly> ctcx: what greycat said about edid-decode
was also for you to try
1624 [18:48:06] *** Quits: greatgatsby (~greatgats@replaced-ip ) (Max SendQ exceeded)
1625 [18:48:06] <greycat> Why did you run nmap, FROM WHAT COMPUTER
did you run it, what ARGUMENTS did you give it, what are you trying
to DO?
1626 [18:48:31] *** Joins: greatgatsby (~greatgats@replaced-ip )
1627 [18:48:37] <Kats99> umm..i ran nmap on my computer like this:
nmap 192.168.43.1
1628 [18:48:39] <greycat> If you applied firewall rules to (say)
eth0, but you're running nmap against localhost, then it
bypasses the firewall.
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1631 [18:49:12] <ctcx> Yes, sorry
1632 [18:49:17] <greycat> So 192.168.43.1 is your Debian
computer's LAN address, and you ran that command from a SECOND
computer on the same LAN?
1633 [18:49:18] <Kats99> it bypasses the firewall??? what kinda
rule is that!! how will i know which ports are open or closed then??
1634 [18:49:21] <ctcx> Thanks very much as well, greycat
1635 [18:49:32] <Kats99> no there is no second computer
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1637 [18:49:35] <jelly> Kats99: you test from a different system.
1638 [18:49:36] <greycat> ...
1639 [18:49:57] <Kats99> oh so it wont work from the same system
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1641 [18:50:14] <greycat> What are you trying to do? Why not just
STOP the ssh daemon if you don't want it?
1642 [18:50:24] <greycat> Or hell, REMOVE it from the computer
entirely?
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1645 [18:50:56] <Kats99> i want it because i use it on my phone
but it would be good to close it if im not using it
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1649 [18:51:19] <greycat> systemctl stop ssh; then later, to make
it run again, systemctl start ssh
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1652 [18:51:56] <jelly> Kats99: your phone is probably also a
computer that can test tcp connections as well.
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1655 [18:52:32] <Kats99> yes i stop ssh when im not using but the
port's open so i wondered if i didnt do something more to close
it. now i know
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1658 [18:52:45] <Kats99> yes it's got termux in it
1659 [18:52:57] <jelly> the port will not look "open" if
the service is stopped
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1661 [18:53:37] <greycat> P.S. "open" and
"closed" are bullshit terms entirely invented by nmap and
have no intrinsic meaning
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1663 [18:54:05] <Kats99> oh look the port got "closed"
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1665 [18:54:35] <Kats99> i stopped ssh like 10 times and it works
now
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1671 [18:55:27] <Kats99> greycat: Hey Mr. Ohio...why not drink a
cup of coffee
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1675 [18:56:25] <Kats99> im losing my mind working on bash for the
past 24 hours...gotta say greycat your book is really good
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1692 [19:07:19] <mason> greycat: Eh? Open and closed can be
useful. Open, closed, unresponsive.
1693 [19:08:16] <greycat> A given IP/port may have a process
listening (bound) to it, or not. If it doesn't, then anything
sent to that port will get "connection refused", unless a
kernel-level firewall intercepts the packets and drops them, or
intercepts the responses.
1694 [19:09:12] <greycat> If a process is listening, then an
incoming TCP connection will succeed, at least at first -- again,
unless a kernel-level firewall interferes. If the process crashes
right after the connection, or intentionally exits because of TCP
wrappers, then you'll see "connection closed by foreign
host" or similar.
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1755 [19:48:00] <iank> why do i have a bunch of virtual network
interfaces in debian 10, and what are they for? ls
/sys/devices/virtual/net
1756 [19:48:01] <iank> bcp0 bcp1 bcp2 bcp3 bcsf0 bcsf1 bcsf2 bcsf3
bcsh0 bcsh1 bcsh2 bcsh3 bpq0 bpq1 bpq2 bpq3 bpq4 eql erspan0 gre0
gretap0 hwsim0 ifb0 ifb1 ip6gre0 ip6tnl0 ip6_vti0 ipddp0 ip_vti0 lo
nr0 nr1 nr2 nr3 rose0 rose1 rose2 rose3 rose4 rose5 rose6 rose7
rose8 rose9 sit0 teql0 tunl0 yam0 yam1 yam2 yam3
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1792 [20:14:15] <Ankman> iank: wow. no idea. how could this
happen? i get only lo and ppp0 there, as aspected
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1794 [20:16:16] <iank> Ankman. ya, i have no idea. they
aren't mentioned in dmesg or systemd journal. this is just a vm
i created using debootstrap with 2 interfaces in
/etc/network/interfaces
1795 [20:16:43] <RoyK> ip link list
1796 [20:17:00] <iank> ya, they are all there listed
1797 [20:17:19] <iank> eg: 54: bpq0: <> mtu 256 qdisc noop
state DOWN mode DEFAULT group default qlen 1000
1798 [20:17:20] <iank> link/ax25 98:92:9c:aa:b0:40:02 brd
a2:a6:a8:40:40:40:00
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1806 [20:22:35] <RoyK> iank: edit /etc/network/interfaces and add
it
1807 [20:23:08] <iank> RoyK why? I just want to know why it exists
and what its for
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1809 [20:23:40] <iank> similar virtual interfaces exist on a
physical machine i setup
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1812 [20:27:08] <karlpinc> iank: You might grep the debian kernel
changelog.
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1838 [20:44:57] <iank> karlpinc, thanks! i figured it out. i
accidentally loaded a bunch of extra kernel modules, some of which
create virtual interfaces
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1890 [21:13:23] <karlpinc> iank: Ah. Makes sense.
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1899 [21:21:01] <alencar> Hello, guys. How are you? Let me ask you
something about firewall (kind of n00b question). When a team setup
a datacenter, many servers work together, and each one of them run a
specific service. A DNS-srv assossiates IPs and hostnames, mail-srv
sends/receives messages etc (using beoadcast for few services,
right?). About firewall server: do I need to set it with the
gateway? Or can I install it in
1900 [21:21:02] <alencar> any place inside datacenter, and then
set a route to it? Or, using DNS, set a register to this firewall
server? How can I make this firewall work with the network,
blocking/allowing access to outside/inside? Ist it possible to make
IPTABLES work with some kind of broadcast?
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1902 [21:22:27] <greycat> If you only want your servers to use the
DNS resolver, simply have it listen on a LAN interface (192.168.x or
10.y or ...) instead of listening on the public interface.
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1904 [21:22:52] <greycat> Most DNS resolvers can also be
configured to accept recursive queries only from a specific set of
IP addresses, if you don't have multiple interfaces.
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1906 [21:23:59] <Ankman> alencar: yes, set the default policy to
REJECT and insert a policy to allow the local network to communicate
with each other
1907 [21:24:25] <Ankman> if you trust your local network...
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1909 [21:25:20] <alencar> So, basicaly, I'm going to use DNS
to point to this firewall server (and set the right rule in
IPTABLES), right? If this is the solution, so I got it. Thanks.
1910 [21:25:28] <RoyK> ufw allow 53/udp from x.x.x.x/yy
1911 [21:25:34] <RoyK> I'd use ufw
1912 [21:25:49] <RoyK> it's an iptables wrapper that makes
things a wee bit easier
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1915 [21:26:02] <greycat> Why do I get the feeling they
didn't understand anything I said...
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1917 [21:26:07] <RoyK> ufw allow 53/udp from x.x.x.x/yy comment
"Allow DNS queries from x.x.x.x/yy"
1918 [21:26:07] <Ankman> hmm, may be that was a bad advice. dunnow
if after using the global REJECT policy allows other rules
1919 [21:26:16] <jasonwc> Has anyone used the new Ice Lake mobile
CPUs with Debian? I'm looking at a laptop with a i5-1035G4 CPU
(4c/8th with Iris Plus graphics) released in Q319. I'm certain
that the iGPU won't work with 4.19 (even a 9700K won't
with the iGPU) but I'm not sure if it'll work with 5.2
from backports either
1920 [21:26:44] <alencar> RoyK: Would UFW be a kind of interface
to IPTABLES?
1921 [21:27:00] <RoyK> Ankman: ufw normally rejects everything
except whatever rules you add, and established connections
1922 [21:27:03] <greycat> !ufw
1923 [21:27:03] <dpkg> Uncomplicated firewall (ufw) is an
<iptables> front-end with syntax similar to OpenBSD's
Packet Filter (PF).
replaced-url
1924 [21:27:18] <RoyK> alencar: I find it a nice thing to use
1925 [21:27:20] <Ankman> alencar: you can otherwise set up to
block all traffic from outside your network
1926 [21:27:23] <alencar> greycat: Got it, thanks.
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1928 [21:28:02] <RoyK> so far, ufw can't handle things like
nat without special configuration (iptables rules), but for
filtering, it's good
1929 [21:28:18] <alencar> Ankman: you mean... nobody get it, but
users can still access the internet?
1930 [21:28:31] <RoyK> yes
1931 [21:28:34] <Ankman> oh, never dealt with ufw. wrote iptables
rules directly
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1935 [21:29:05] <RoyK> Ankman: I also do that if I really need to,
but ufw is simpler and does a wee bit of background stuff as well
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1937 [21:29:47] <RoyK> remember "ufw allow 22/tcp comment
"Allow SSH access from everywhere"
1938 [21:29:51] <RoyK> or something like that
1939 [21:29:59] <RoyK> so that you can get into the box later
1940 [21:30:08] <alencar> Ok
1941 [21:30:08] <Ankman> alencar: i suppose the classic NAT rule
should sort this out. only connections to the internet from the
local network (and back from the internet) are allowed
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1945 [21:30:32] <RoyK> alencar: is this a router or just a server?
1946 [21:30:34] <alencar> Ankman: I was imagining something like
that
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1948 [21:30:41] <alencar> RoyK: Just a server
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1953 [21:32:25] <alencar> Guys, you helped me with this firewall
chat. Thanks.
1954 [21:33:35] *** Parts: alencar (~alencar@replaced-ip ) ()
1955 [21:33:43] <RoyK> one of the nice ufw things, is that
comment, so if you open some weird port or open up from some address
you won't remember tomorrow, you can make a comment on what
it's from
1956 [21:33:52] <RoyK> s/from$/for/
1957 [21:34:12] <Ankman> iptables INPUT -m state --state
RELATED,ESTABLISHED -j ACCEPT
1958 [21:34:27] <Ankman> reject all other traffic then
1959 [21:35:17] <Ankman> but then also the loval machines
can't communicate with each other
1960 [21:35:22] <RoyK> that's in ufw by default, so I
can't be bothered ;)
1961 [21:35:24] <annadane> do people find iptables syntax
confusing (i'm aware nftables is a thing now)? the bsd people
continually decry it
1962 [21:36:17] <RoyK> annadane: nftables is a bit better, or a
lot better, but hell, ufw works
1963 [21:36:18] <greycat> Again, I would suggest that you do NOT
restrain everything by default. Simply have all services listen only
on the LAN interface, unless a specific service is meant to listen
to the public Internet.
1964 [21:36:43] <greycat> (You *do* have multiple interfaces in
all of your data center boxes, right?)
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1966 [21:37:22] <RoyK> greycat: most don't - just more
redundant switches with redundant PSUs etc
1967 [21:37:29] <Ankman> iptables INPUT -m state --state
RELATED,ESTABLISHED -i $LOCAL_DEVICE -j ACCEPT
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1969 [21:37:49] <RoyK> Ankman: add a -I before INPUT
1970 [21:37:53] <greycat> RoyK: do they even *sell* rack-mounted
servers with less than 2 ethernet ports nowadays?
1971 [21:38:10] <Ankman> RoyK: okay, my mistake
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1976 [21:38:54] <Ankman> iptables INPUT -i $LOCAL_DEVICE -m state
--state RELATED,ESTABLISHED -j ACCEPT
1977 [21:39:01] <RoyK> greycat: not really, but configuring
failover for each server is a PITA and the chances of a high-end
switch failing is so low it's usually not worth it
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1979 [21:39:16] <RoyK> Ankman: ufw enable ;)
1980 [21:39:23] <RoyK> Ankman: again, add -I before INPUT
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1983 [21:39:47] <greycat> So everyone is giving
"firewall" answers because we're assuming that
instead of a real data center, things are being set up like "a
bunch of desktop PCs on a shelf".
1984 [21:40:07] <RoyK> I just don't understand why some
people want to stick to iptables when they can just use something
more admin-friendly
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1995 [21:41:16] <RoyK> greycat: there are several ways to control
security in a datacentre. some use a big-ass firewall that cost
$100k plus redundancy - some use local firewalls per machine
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1998 [21:41:58] <greycat> Does anyone use "all the machines
are NATted, and if you want a specific port on a specific machine to
be reachable from the Internet, we'll forward it from the
router"?
1999 [21:42:16] <RoyK> if using local firewalls, if one machine is
compromised, it won't mean everything else is being nuked as
well
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2002 [21:42:32] <karlpinc> greycat: Yes.
2003 [21:42:53] * RoyK wants IPv6 everywhere
2004 [21:42:59] *** Quits: greatgatsby (~greatgats@replaced-ip ) (Max SendQ exceeded)
2005 [21:43:11] <karlpinc> RoyK: Someone will just re-invent NAT.
2006 [21:43:22] *** Joins: greatgatsby (~greatgats@replaced-ip )
2007 [21:43:29] <RoyK> karlpinc: there is nat support for ipv6
too, for some stupid reason
2008 [21:44:01] *** Quits: greatgatsby (~greatgats@replaced-ip ) (Max SendQ exceeded)
2009 [21:44:12] *** Quits: njka (~njka@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
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2012 [21:44:40] * RoyK waves his wand and shouts "luc ip16"
2013 [21:44:50] <karlpinc> RoyK: With v4 NAT is kind of handy in
that all your IP address config is more centralized, so you can
switch public IPs/change ISPs with less fussing. Otherwise :-P
2014 [21:44:57] <RoyK> ipv6, even
2015 [21:45:07] *** Quits: greatgatsby (~greatgats@replaced-ip ) (Max SendQ exceeded)
2016 [21:45:23] <RoyK> karlpinc: with v4 NAT is only handy if you
don't have enough addresses
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2021 [21:46:41] <RoyK> with ipv6, you usually get a /64 block (for
businesses), meaning 65k networks with an address space of 2^48 per
network, which should suffice
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2023 [21:47:03] * annadane smiles and nods
2024 [21:47:10] *** Quits: patterson (~patterson@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2025 [21:47:28] *** Quits: greatgatsby (~greatgats@replaced-ip ) (Max SendQ exceeded)
2026 [21:48:00] <RoyK> last I checked, a lot want to limit to /56
to private customers, but still, that's 256 networks which
should do
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2029 [21:48:35] <karlpinc> RoyK: Inevitably some admin will set it
up so that there's only 255 addresses available for desktops,
the rest being allocated for smoke detectors, and ti will be
impossible to change.
2030 [21:49:12] *** Joins: mpmc (~mpmc@replaced-ip )
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2032 [21:49:30] <RoyK> karlpinc: I beleive those people should be
led off the premises and shot in the head
2033 [21:49:44] <dvs> RoyK, That many addresses seem like overkill
to me because we'll run out of IPv6 addressses someday and
we're just handing them out like candy right now.
2034 [21:50:03] <RoyK> dvs: no, we won't - do the math
2035 [21:50:33] <dvs> RoyK, Ok, we won't run out, in my
lifetime. ;-)
2036 [21:50:45] <annadane> ipv8?
2037 [21:50:48] <RoyK> not in a thousand years
2038 [21:50:49] <dvs> heh
2039 [21:50:55] <lupine> people don't really grasp the size
of the ipv6 address space
2040 [21:51:02] <RoyK>
replaced-url
2041 [21:51:07] <annadane> i don't even understand ipv4, so.
2042 [21:51:24] <zathz> How can/should I automount to a fixed
mountpoint my external nvme? I bought an external nvme usb 3.1
10gbps enclosure. It shows up as an USB device and as either sda/sdb
(SCSI). smartmontools has issues with the bridge.
2043 [21:52:02] *** Joins: karakedi (~eAC53C340@replaced-ip )
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2046 [21:52:41] <RoyK> zathz: never trust sdX-naming - use an UUID
or LVM
2047 [21:52:42] <lupine> > There are enough /48 IPv6 address
prefixes available to give every person on the planet about 4000
allocations before IANA has to release some more of the 80% of the
space which is still undefined!
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2051 [21:53:21] <dvs> zathz,
replaced-url
2052 [21:53:23] <lupine> almost all people only need 1 /48 of
course, and only a small proportion of orgs need a /32, or multiple
/32s
2053 [21:53:24] <zathz> RoyK, lsblk blkid does not show as the
bridge is not passed
2054 [21:53:55] <zathz> I would like to stay away from custom udev
ruling if possible
2055 [21:54:10] <RoyK> zathz: use an UUID
2056 [21:54:17] <RoyK> zathz: or just setup lvm on top and use
that
2057 [21:54:36] <zathz> RoyK, like I said, it does not show, so I
cannot use that afaik
2058 [21:54:53] <zathz> lvm without mounting?
2059 [21:54:57] <whislock> zathz: UUIDs are at the filesystem
level. If you can't see the UUID, you can't see the
filesystem.
2060 [21:55:07] *** Joins: tme520 (~tme520@replaced-ip )
2061 [21:55:07] <RoyK> blkid /dev/something
2062 [21:55:19] <zathz> I can see my ext4 partition fine
2063 [21:55:26] *** Quits: hugh_marera (~hugh@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2064 [21:55:26] <dvs> zathz, yeah, did you put a filesystem on it
yet?
2065 [21:55:28] <whislock> Then you can get its UUID. :)
2066 [21:55:37] <RoyK> it'll show you the UUID which can be
used in fstab or similar
2067 [21:56:22] <zathz> yes, its ext4
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2073 [22:00:20] <zathz> got uuid now. thanks
2074 [22:00:53] <zathz> smartmon db update tool seems missing is
Debian?
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2090 [22:11:08] <zathz> any recommendations for mount options?
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2100 [22:28:05] <ratrace> zathz: noatime
2101 [22:29:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1584
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2111 [22:33:59] <zathz> ratrace, thanks. currently i have:
nofail,x-systemd.device-timeout=1ms,rw,sync
2112 [22:34:21] <zathz> I think noatime is not really needed given
the speed
2113 [22:36:39] <zathz> speed is 1.4 GB/s r/w which is quite nice
for an external drive
2114 [22:36:53] <zathz> without caching
2115 [22:37:07] <ratrace> atime has no use, and only wastes iops
2116 [22:37:53] *** Quits: dastier (~dastier@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2117 [22:38:36] <RoyK> rebrec: don't use noitime - relitime
works, and it's the default
2118 [22:38:44] *** Quits: hele (~hele@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2119 [22:38:56] <RoyK> *relatime*
2120 [22:39:12] <RoyK> meaning atime is updated at most every 24
hours
2121 [22:39:22] *** Quits: SoothSayer (~Mibbit@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2122 [22:39:35] <RoyK> zathz: which filsystem?
2123 [22:39:46] *** Quits: ExoUNX (~ExoUNX@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2124 [22:39:59] <RoyK> nfs?
2125 [22:40:15] <RoyK> no, probably not nfs
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2127 [22:40:25] <zathz> ext4 atm. I am considering lvm, currenly
it is just plain ext4
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2129 [22:40:43] <RoyK> lvm isn't a filesystem ;)
2130 [22:40:50] <zathz> I know
2131 [22:40:56] <RoyK> I'd suggest setting up lvm anyway
2132 [22:41:05] <RoyK> and then put ext4 or xfs or something on it
2133 [22:41:11] <zathz> rest of laptop is lvm
2134 [22:41:16] *** Quits: terr__ (~terr@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2135 [22:41:22] <RoyK> lvm is far more flexible than just old
partitions
2136 [22:41:29] <RoyK> that's good
2137 [22:41:40] <somiaj> but it is an additional layer that
isn't often needed (I am just fine with simple partitions)
2138 [22:41:52] <RoyK> but if it's a separate data drive,
just put the pv on the drive, not the partition
2139 [22:42:18] <RoyK> somiaj: it's an additional layer that
doesn't cost anything I/O wise, but can help a lot later
2140 [22:42:50] <RoyK> I use lvm for everything, that is, unless
I'm using zfs
2141 [22:43:41] <somiaj> I'm thinking more in terms of
recovery too, I just find that I don't need any of lvm's
features, so tend to not use it as a result (but I only have 2-3
machines with two partitions, / and /home)
2142 [22:43:41] *** Joins: tme520 (~tme520@replaced-ip )
2143 [22:43:46] <zathz> drawback seems to me that lvm binds. It is
an external drive. With lvm it is fixed to a single device
2144 [22:43:52] <zathz> ie laptop
2145 [22:44:02] *** Quits: maxrazer (~razer@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2146 [22:44:25] <RoyK> lvm isn't fixed to anything, really
2147 [22:45:50] <RoyK> but anyway - for ext4, I'd recommend
the defaults (being relatime,rw and so on), not sync (async is fine)
and add errors=remount-ro
2148 [22:46:08] <RoyK> the latter so that if errors are found on
the fs, it'll be remounted read-only
2149 [22:46:30] <RoyK> async is also way faster than sync
2150 [22:47:30] <zathz> thanks
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2153 [22:48:06] <RoyK> you may want to add 'acl' and
'user_xattr' in case you need those, but mostly, you
won't
2154 [22:48:07] *** Joins: terr__ (~terr@replaced-ip )
2155 [22:49:00] <RoyK> not hard to add later, anyway
2156 [22:49:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1578
2157 [22:49:34] <RoyK> btw, async is default, so no reason to add
it expicitly
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2177 [23:03:19] <ratrace> whoa 10.2 already next weekend!
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2184 [23:07:35] <ryouma> when does stretch go lts?
2185 [23:07:57] *** Quits: m8 (~m8@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2186 [23:08:05] <greycat> !buster
2187 [23:08:05] <dpkg> Buster is the codename for the current
<stable> release, Debian 10, released 2019-07-06.
"Buster" is Andy's pet Dachsund in Toy Story, see
replaced-url
2188 [23:08:15] <greycat> Should be around 2020-07-06.
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do nothin' 'cause I'm cute and furry)
2192 [23:10:26] <ratrace> that Dachsund is typo'd. should be
Dachshund. Dachs hund
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2194 [23:12:08] *** Parts: KOLANICH (~KOLANICH@replaced-ip ) ()
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2201 [23:18:28] <rj1> ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦
2202 [23:18:29] <rj1> ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁
2203 [23:18:29] <rj1> ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋
2204 [23:18:29] <rj1> ⠈⠳⣄
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2209 [23:20:09] <raidghost> Is debian non-free important if i like
to get hardware work propper ?
2210 [23:20:47] <NetGirl> not usually
2211 [23:21:03] *** Joins: JakeSqPants (~Jake@replaced-ip )
2212 [23:21:06] <NetGirl> but I don't see why you
wouldn't use nvidias driver
2213 [23:21:13] <dvs> raidghost, it depends on your preferences
2214 [23:21:15] *** Quits: zalt (~lambda443@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2215 [23:21:19] <lupine> nvidia are not to be trusted
2216 [23:21:24] <NetGirl> lupine: why not
2217 [23:21:25] *** Joins: Ignacy (~Ignacy@replaced-ip )
2218 [23:21:28] <NetGirl> lupine: it's just a driver
2219 [23:21:32] <lupine> nouveau is fine
2220 [23:21:40] <whislock> Nouveau is crap for most purposes.
2221 [23:21:45] <lupine> disagree
2222 [23:21:52] <raidghost> Ive got a Intel 915 series Graphical
card that just made it hell on earth to use with ubuntu.
2223 [23:22:04] <NetGirl> though, they artificially restrict it
down on linux to match the limitations of windows, that's
hilarious.
2224 [23:22:06] *** Joins: zalt (~lambda443@replaced-ip )
2225 [23:22:29] <whislock> lupine: You're welcome to
disagree. Doesn't change facts.
2226 [23:22:39] <lupine> ^5
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2230 [23:22:54] <NetGirl> lupine the nvidia driver is performing
better and more stable
2231 [23:23:05] <NetGirl> less power used too for just average
desktop use
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2233 [23:23:23] <whislock> Nouveau is vastly behind the
proprietary driver in terms of performance and usability.
That's just what it is.
2234 [23:24:09] <whislock> It sucks that the driver is
proprietary, but that doesn't equate to "nvidia is not to
be trusted." So let's keep things to facts from now on.
2235 [23:24:22] <JakeSqPants> oh, another popularity contest.
2236 [23:24:59] <raidghost>
replaced-url
2237 [23:25:00] <whislock> JakeSqPants: Not sure how it's a
popularity contest, but okay.
2238 [23:25:10] <raidghost> this is what meet me
2239 [23:25:39] <raidghost> Not sure if its the GPU that says
"I cant take it anymore" or if its just a BUGGY intel
driver
2240 [23:25:40] *** Quits: soee (~soee@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2241 [23:25:47] <whislock> raidghost: Unfortunately, I don't
think I've ever touched Intel graphics processors in this
context.
2242 [23:26:13] <whislock> I've been under the impression
that the i915 driver has been mature for a long time.
2243 [23:27:07] <raidghost> For me it has allways been a pain to
get working 100% in linux
2244 [23:27:52] <raidghost> too often i just felt like "i got
enought of this crap" and open window. Ready to just smash it
from second floor. What a crappy hardware
2245 [23:28:29] <raidghost> My girlfriends laptop complains that
there is no "Wifi card" broadcom chipset.
2246 [23:28:36] *** Quits: towo` (~towo@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2247 [23:28:53] <raidghost> I know the card is there. it has
worked perfect since the install. but for some weird reasons it just
"No wifi card found"
2248 [23:29:22] *** Quits: n0a110w (~n0a110w@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2249 [23:29:49] *** Quits: dvs (~hibbard@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2250 [23:30:14] <raidghost> So. i thought of testing debian 10 on
the laptop. to see if it can BEHAVE better.
2251 [23:30:16] *** Quits: Nefertari (~Nefertiti@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2252 [23:30:48] *** Parts: Ankman (~ankman@replaced-ip ) ()
2253 [23:30:59] *** Quits: Ignacy (~Ignacy@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2254 [23:30:59] *** Quits: zalt (~lambda443@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2255 [23:31:32] *** Joins: Nefertari (~Nefertiti@replaced-ip )
2256 [23:31:37] *** Joins: zalt (~lambda443@replaced-ip )
2257 [23:31:50] *** Joins: n0a110w (~n0a110w@replaced-ip )
2258 [23:31:55] <raidghost> So I can't quite land on which of
the installations to go for
2259 [23:32:37] <raidghost> The non-free or the alternative
unofficial image build which includes non-free firmware for extra
support for some awkward hardware
2260 [23:33:11] <AvatarA> try unofficial non-free
2261 [23:33:30] *** Quits: dob1 (~dob1@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2262 [23:34:10] *** Quits: BrianG61UK (~BrianG61U@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2263 [23:34:27] *** Quits: frgo (~frgo@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2264 [23:34:42] *** Joins: tangarora_ (~tangarora@replaced-ip )
2265 [23:35:14] *** Quits: rustbuckett (~downtime@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2266 [23:35:19] *** Joins: frgo (~frgo@replaced-ip )
2267 [23:35:44] *** Joins: BrianG61UK (~BrianG61U@replaced-ip )
2268 [23:36:24] *** Joins: happycrappy (~mes@replaced-ip )
2269 [23:37:14] *** Joins: manuelschneid3r (~manuelsch@replaced-ip )
2270 [23:37:31] *** Quits: AlmarShenwan_ (~quassel@replaced-ip ) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2271 [23:37:33] *** Quits: tangarora (~tangarora@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2272 [23:38:25] <raidghost> There is not just one file
2273 [23:38:30] *** Joins: th0r (~th0r@replaced-ip )
2274 [23:38:47] *** Quits: cdown (~cdown@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2275 [23:39:00] *** Quits: asymptotically (~asymptoti@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2276 [23:39:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1569
2277 [23:39:06] *** Joins: AlmarShenwan (~quassel@replaced-ip )
2278 [23:39:30] *** Joins: cdown (~cdown@replaced-ip )
2279 [23:40:08] <AvatarA> on what webpage?
2280 [23:40:16] *** Joins: njka (~njka@replaced-ip )
2281 [23:40:35] <raidghost> AvatarA: can i pm u?
2282 [23:40:48] *** Quits: _0bitcount (~Big_Byte@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2283 [23:41:22] <AvatarA> paste it here, discussion may be useful
to someone else too
2284 [23:41:47] <raidghost>
replaced-url
2285 [23:42:18] *** Quits: zalt (~lambda443@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2286 [23:42:26] *** Quits: th0r (~th0r@replaced-ip ) (Client Quit)
2287 [23:43:18] <AvatarA> one of the .iso files
2288 [23:43:27] <raidghost> So, if i like to use gnome, i go for
the file ending with gnome+nonmfree+gnome?
2289 [23:43:28] *** Quits: yvy (~yvy@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2290 [23:43:29] <AvatarA> with the preffered desktop environment
2291 [23:43:44] <AvatarA> cinnammon, gnome, lxde, kde, whatever
you prefer
2292 [23:43:47] <raidghost> Never heard about cinnamon
2293 [23:43:53] *** Joins: zalt (~lambda443@replaced-ip )
2294 [23:44:40] <AvatarA> it's what Linux Mint uses as far as
I know
2295 [23:44:51] *** Quits: njka (~njka@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2296 [23:44:59] <raidghost> the light weighter ?
2297 [23:45:18] <AvatarA> slightly more light weight, but not too
much
2298 [23:45:30] <AvatarA> lxqt is very lightweight
2299 [23:45:56] <raidghost> guessing that lxqt and sinnamon works
perfect on a 386SX or a 486DX
2300 [23:46:55] <zathz> doubt it
2301 [23:47:30] <raidghost> Would be fun if i could get unity
desktop
2302 [23:48:02] *** Quits: stochastix (~quassel@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2303 [23:48:22] *** Quits: Nokaji (~Nokaji@replaced-ip##) (Quit: ***** Extinction Rebellion's aim to
overthrow dem' elected govt - ##replaced-url
2304 [23:48:45] *** Joins: saptech (~saptech@replaced-ip )
2305 [23:48:58] <raidghost> zathz: you doubt it, why?
2306 [23:49:23] *** Quits: Immanuel (~Manu@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2307 [23:49:26] <raidghost> I was running redhat 3.0 with kde on
my 486DX2 66Mhz with 73mb of ram
2308 [23:50:17] *** Joins: rustbuckett (~downtime@replaced-ip )
2309 [23:50:50] *** Joins: Immanuel (~Manu@replaced-ip )
2310 [23:50:51] <zathz> 73mb? Also: modern linuxes (and desktop
managers) will have issues with 25 year old hardware
2311 [23:51:13] <rkeene> 73MB would be a lot
2312 [23:51:25] <rkeene> I had 8MB of RAM in my 486DX2/50
2313 [23:51:50] <raidghost> i did upgrade, the ram was not cheap
2314 [23:51:54] <zathz> yes, extremely. also a weird amount
2315 [23:52:28] <raidghost> my first machine was a 386 sx 33Mhz
wit 2mb of ram
2316 [23:52:41] <zathz> it could address more then 64mb?
2317 [23:52:52] <zathz> *than
2318 [23:53:18] <raidghost> could it be 64mb of ram maybe
2319 [23:53:25] <zathz> those were fun. Compile kernel. Running 48
hrs. Kernel compile fails...
2320 [23:53:28] <TandyUK> your first machines had MB lucky sods
2321 [23:53:37] <TandyUK> mine was maxed out with 640KB lol
2322 [23:53:49] <rkeene> TandyUK, No, first machines running Linux
were
2323 [23:53:51] <raidghost> was it not bill gates that said all
you need is 640KB ?
2324 [23:53:51] <zathz> I started with 32kb
2325 [23:53:52] <TandyUK> I did have a 20MB hard disk though
2326 [23:53:55] *** Joins: zalt_ (~lambda443@replaced-ip )
2327 [23:53:56] * lupine pats the old vic-20
2328 [23:54:00] <rkeene> My first computer was an IBM PCjr with
16KB
2329 [23:54:01] <zathz> lol
2330 [23:54:01] <ratrace> was it a Tandy? :)
2331 [23:54:10] <TandyUK> nah Amstrad PC-1640 lol
2332 [23:54:22] <raidghost> TandyUK: My drive was 250MB hard
drive. renember upgraded to 3.2GB Bigfoot something drive
2333 [23:54:28] <raidghost> I thought. I never run out of space
2334 [23:54:30] <TandyUK> I didnt find out Tandy made computers
till i was nearly an adult
2335 [23:54:30] <rkeene> Oops, 64KB
2336 [23:54:54] <TandyUK> I remember paying £170 for a 17Gb
disk one time
2337 [23:54:57] <raidghost> I renember that it was VGA EGA CGA og
TANDY
2338 [23:55:01] <TandyUK> ~4TB for that now lol
2339 [23:55:18] <raidghost> TandyUK: 4TB in that time. It would be
"WOOOOOOOW factor"
2340 [23:55:28] <TandyUK> "wtf is TB" lol
2341 [23:55:44] <raidghost> 4ThousandBytes ? :p
2342 [23:55:51] <TandyUK> still planty rofl
2343 [23:55:55] <TandyUK> plenty*
2344 [23:56:10] <raidghost> I thought i never could fill up my
3.2GB drive
2345 [23:56:17] <raidghost> But i figured out that later . Its 1
Mp3 song
2346 [23:56:31] <TandyUK> thats a huge mp3
2347 [23:56:48] <raidghost> not mp3 but like 1 tvserie episode
2348 [23:56:49] <TandyUK> my current 54TB is running out :S
2349 [23:56:59] <raidghost> TandyUK: Mine 82TB is running out
2350 [23:57:13] <annadane> wat
2351 [23:57:14] <raidghost> i need to buy more drives. But i dont
have space to mount them
2352 [23:57:17] *** Quits: toxync12 (~toxync12@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2353 [23:57:38] <TandyUK> bargainhardware, HP DL380e chassis if
you dont mind a hovercraft nearby :P
2354 [23:57:39] *** Quits: zalt (~lambda443@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2355 [23:57:53] <raidghost> Is it loud?
2356 [23:57:54] *** Quits: xinming_ (~xinming@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2357 [23:57:57] <raidghost> Or fanless?
2358 [23:58:01] *** Joins: toxync12 (~toxync12@replaced-ip )
2359 [23:58:07] <TandyUK> plus 3 extra quad port nics,
iscsi'd to my esxi is what i have atm
2360 [23:58:11] <TandyUK> loud?
2361 [23:58:18] <raidghost> Is it livingroom friendly?
2362 [23:58:19] <TandyUK> think like being near a plane at takeoff
2363 [23:58:21] <TandyUK> NO rofl
2364 [23:58:39] *** Quits: Ard1t (~ard1t@replaced-ip##) (Quit: Nettalk6 - ##replaced-url
2365 [23:58:48] <TandyUK> not even livingroom 3 doors away
friendly lol
2366 [23:58:57] <raidghost> TandyUK: i found a HP workstation at
school. It did sound like a plane that did a takeoff
2367 [23:59:06] *** Quits: yvan (~tekmans@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2368 [23:59:33] <TandyUK> its like they *tried* to make it as
noisy as possible lol
2369 [23:59:38] <raidghost> :P
2370 [23:59:43] *** Joins: AlexPortable (uid7568@replaced-ip )
2371 [23:59:46] *** Quits: akko (~gentoo@replaced-ip ) (Quit: WeeChat 2.5)
2372 [23:59:48] *** Joins: yonder (~yonder@replaced-ip )
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