1[00:00:40] <urk> mrjpaxton[m]> Its downloading, but on an
ancient 32-bit system so it is slooow. I have a 100mbps download
speed at my building so likely the internet standard of my laptop is
802.11a
3[00:00:55] <ham5urg> I have a Wacom HID embedded in my
monitor (laptop). But it does not appear in gnome-settings. Still,
in energy-gnome-settings I can see a Wacom HID 48E2. I guess it
shows the battery of the pen (100%). The monitor-HID works well. But
what kind of Wacom-monitor is that? Can I make it appear inside
wacom-gnome-settings?
8[00:04:28] <jmcnaught> I believe the computer being used to
download is 32-bit but the target computer the installer will be
used on is a 64-bit computer from 2019.
10[00:05:09] <mrjpaxton[m]> Oh really? Sorry, I haven't
read the past messages, like I should. :(
11[00:05:15] <urk> mrjpaxton[m]> Don't bother. I am
only downloading and burning the installer on a 32-bit system. Its
being installed on a 64-bit system. I am installing the installer on
a Dell XPS 15 7590 which came out in late 2019.
12[00:06:11] *** Quits: lab__ (~Souler@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
13[00:06:27] <urk> Not to get off topic, I like what Dell did
with the screen, battery, case, and processing. However, keyboard
layout couldn't been better, but not terrible.
14[00:07:42] <bru> Hello, I'm trouble running wine64
having purged wine32 and deleted the i386 arch off my amd64 system.
Is there any way to do it or is it really necessary to install
wine32 as my error says?
16[00:07:57] *** Quits: LucaTM (~LucaTM@replaced-ip) (Quit: To infinity and beyond...)
17[00:08:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1061
18[00:08:06] <mrjpaxton[m]> urk: Oh yeah, I really don't
like Dell's rubber dome keyboards. My favorite is still MX Red.
I tried Browns and Blues before, and they were nice, but nothing
beats Red for me. :)
19[00:08:10] <Mister00X> bru: usually you will need both
27[00:10:16] <urk> keyboard texture isn't bad. Its the
layout that seems strange. You have to select the Fn keey and the
end key together to get to the end. The had a lot of room to just
stick the end key off to the side so that you could swipe it without
looking.
28[00:10:17] <abff> I kind of like my dell latitude keyboard,
sometimes junk gets stuck under the scissor stabilizer things but
29[00:10:32] <abff> I have full removed all the key caps twice
now to wash and lube it
30[00:10:41] <mrjpaxton[m]> If you don't want to taint
your pure 64-bit Debian install with 32-bit crud, you can use some
systems like a virtual machine, or container (like Docker) or
Flatpak, which I think installs 32-bit static libraries all
sandboxed.
31[00:10:42] <abff> pretty impressive for a laptop
32[00:11:04] <urk> Dell gets an AAA+ for screen brightness in
this model so it looks like the company is still responsive on
features if you write the top brass.
33[00:11:37] <mrjpaxton[m]> I just wish VMs ran faster on my
laptop.... I still use Flatpak/Docker for all my 32-bit needs. Lol.
40[00:14:47] <mrjpaxton[m]> VMs are nice. My only problem with
them is that 3D acceleration and GPU passthough still feels like it
hasn't been perfected yet. As much as I like QEMU, it is really
slow with most of the basic settings. VirtualBox at least has
options for sane people who don't want to figure out all of
QEMU or libvirt. I don't think Vagrant focuses on any of that,
but I could be wrong.
41[00:15:21] <urk> mrjapaxton[m]> I was going to try the
debootstrap option, but had trouble getting the firmware into the
computer. I guess I could have tried to get it in at shell, but
there was no prompt.
42[00:15:25] <mrjpaxton[m]> I feel like Vagrant is more for
server application use.
43[00:15:39] <abff> I've always founs virt-manager to be a
no brainer solution
44[00:15:49] <abff> click click bam vm ready to go
45[00:16:22] <mrjpaxton[m]> Oh the one for libvirt? I really
should try it out. I am using QEMU Bash scripts, and it makes me
feel a bit silly.
46[00:16:56] <mrjpaxton[m]> That's just to play around and
test stuff in, though.
47[00:16:58] <ratrace> why silly? that's the most direct
and powerful way to use them. I run all the VMs with
qemu-system-x86_64 directly
48[00:17:19] <mrjpaxton[m]> I haven't been able to set up
a serious VM that will work with just about most hardware.
49[00:17:24] <ratrace> then again libvirt and virt-manager UI
are just high level wrappers for the qemu-kvm virtualization
53[00:18:56] <abff> Well thats the nice thing about qemu, if
you want to rice it, its easy. If you want easy and fast, libvirt
and virt-manager are there for you
54[00:19:15] <abff> replace that first easy with
"accessible"
57[00:20:13] <abff> haha no I mean if you want to compose your
whole vm from scratch it's accessible just by virtue of config
files and command line options.
58[00:20:13] <ratrace> I have custom scripts because they set
up and tear up hugepages based environment + scheduler for the
gaming VM
59[00:20:22] <abff> virt-manager is clickable
60[00:20:23] <ratrace> libvirt alone and virt-manager cannot do
that, they just run the VMs
61[00:20:43] <mrjpaxton[m]> I've also learned QEMU can run
Windows XP just fine, but every time I try to run Windows 95 or 98,
it's dog slow. And running anything Windows 7 or above at a
decent speed (at least on any hardware below 2014) requires a bunch
of decked out VirtIO stuff to be configured and installed.
62[00:21:07] <ratrace> well yes. paravirt > full
virtualization
64[00:24:34] <jmcnaught> ratrace: you can't do that stuff
with libvirt hooks?
65[00:25:42] <ratrace> jmcnaught: maybe you can, actually. I
got the thousand yard sare when I saw all the XML I had to type in,
so I decided to whip up a 30 line bash script instead :)
66[00:25:48] <ratrace> *stare
67[00:26:17] <jmcnaught> ratrace: which scheduler do you use?
68[00:26:33] <ratrace> pstate performance, turns out it's
the best.
69[00:27:36] <ratrace> but uh... I got a lousy CPU for vfio and
passthrough. nonvirtualizes irq is eating into latency big time. the
new AMD based VM host/server/workstation that I'm building will
have that fixed
72[00:29:32] <jmcnaught> pstate performance is that a cpufreq
governor?
73[00:29:40] <ratrace> yea
74[00:30:31] <ratrace> there's schedutil, ondemand and
userland+cpufreqd, and I settled with pstate+performance
75[00:31:17] *** Quits: tagomago (~tagomago@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
76[00:32:01] <mrjpaxton[m]> I also have a Librem 13 v4 which
has the Intel ME disabled. So I think that affects VM performance.
:(
77[00:32:09] *** Quits: Mister00X (quassel@replaced-ip) (Quit: "I'll be back" — Arnold
Schwarzenegger)
78[00:32:11] <ratrace> switchign between powersave when the VM
is not running, and performance when it is, and I also dynamically
allocate hugepages because those are then VM reserved and
aren't available on the host. also have to set up vfio
rebinding of some usb pci lanes.... anyhoo.. that's why I use a
script
81[00:34:10] *** Quits: xet7 (~xet7@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
82[00:34:27] <jmcnaught> I tried static hugepages last week
actually, and bizarrely my VM started losing its network connection
as if the network cable were unplugged. It stopped doing that when I
reverted the changes.
83[00:36:59] *** J is now known as jess
84[00:38:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1054
85[00:41:36] *** Quits: Tobbi (~Tobbi@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
86[00:46:07] <ryouma> why is space reserved for root on / when
normallly / uis already only used by root?
87[00:46:14] <ryouma> (also, is this same reserving stuff the
case with btrfs?)
88[00:46:48] <Namarrgon> it's an ext* thing, btrfs
doesn't do that
90[00:48:21] <Namarrgon> it's of limited use when root is
the only user of that fs or when root doesn't use that fs at
all
91[00:51:08] *** Quits: rl (~wr@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
92[00:51:35] <ryouma> that seems to be the usual case for me,
users for home and root for root. oh, no, lots of daemons use root i
guess. i am thinking of setting root to tune2fs -m 4 and home/big to
-m 1. (but i lose track and there is no straightforward tool to say
what the reserved amount is by percentage so i can't check just
have to do -m if i am not sure.)
93[00:52:36] <Namarrgon> many daemons/services do run as a
different user, so it does make sense even if /home is on a separate
fs
94[00:52:46] <ratrace> btrfs does reserve space however, just
in different way
144[01:37:56] <ryouma> idk anything about ipv6 but fwiw i get
"telnet -6 archive.debian.org 80 Trying
2a02:16a8:dc41:100::234... Trying 2001:67c:2564:a119::148:13...
telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Network is
unreachable"
145[01:38:12] <ryouma> ratrace:
146[01:38:14] <ryouma> r0
147[01:38:37] <ratrace> do you even have ipv6 connectivity to
begin with
148[01:38:44] <ryouma> not a clue
149[01:38:47] <ratrace> also, wth telnet. wget -6 is a thing
150[01:39:08] <ratrace> ryouma: then your information has no
value :)
151[01:39:14] <ryouma> great
152[01:39:24] <ryouma> unless the value is that r0 is in a
similar state of cluelessness
177[01:43:11] <ratrace> mtr would show you where it breaks
178[01:43:15] <ryouma> is it possible to find out what
usb-Generic_STORAGE_DEVICE_000000009744-0:0 is? (i am guessing i
have 2 hubs on my monitor or such)
179[01:43:47] <ratrace> checked lsusb?
180[01:43:47] <r0> it works from other machines... I'll try
tcpdump to see that's going on here
181[01:44:13] <r0> some machines it works ok, others it works ok
except tcp
219[02:20:35] <mr_ab> I'm really confused.. I don't
have a pc currently trying to figure out what's wrong with my
system which is a rats nest of mdadm with lvm on top and btrfs on
top of that ... I have a Debian install USB handy, which has btrfs
as a command, but I don't have mount.btrfs and I can't
mount any of the btrfs drives despite them showing up in btrfs
filesys status... is there a particular way I can trigger the
installation of all the btrfs tools?
220[02:20:51] <r0> mtr on debian 7 does not support TCP :D
221[02:20:55] <r0> ops ops...
222[02:21:19] <mr_ab> Worse comes to worse I can just install
Debian onto a USB thumb drive I guess but then I have to contend
with missing network drivers
229[02:24:44] <mr_ab> Its all I have unfortunately.. I'd
have to reinstall Debian to a blank disk to download it and copy it
to media .. I'm just trying to get access into my data to see
if it's totally lost or what, and to potentially pull off my
network adapter drivers
231[02:25:33] <mr_ab> Err wait i can't even install Debian
to a USB disk.. i can but then I'd be without network...
I'm up to my neck in catch 22s... I'll check it out tho
232[02:26:05] <mr_ab> I think I have a network card I can put in
there and just wire it into my router for the time being ...
233[02:28:01] <r0> ratrace, this machine with debian 7 is FUBAR,
so anyway... sorry to bother you guys
234[02:28:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1049
235[02:28:24] *** Quits: mortderire (~mortderir@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
236[02:28:30] <r0> going to upgrade the thing... just have to
test a few configs
237[02:28:32] <mr_ab> Err... one question.. can't find
answer on Google (surely I'm asking it poorly but).. how do I
install a deb or udeb from the installer rescue shell? Doesn't
look like dpkg is a valid command here. I'm booted into the
installer part.. could try the live cd portion but ?
238[02:29:14] <sney> mr_ab: iirc there's a menu item
(possibly only in expert mode) for 'load additional installer
components' or so
239[02:29:28] <sney> not sure if it's possible from the
installer busybox
246[02:40:00] <mr_ab> I couldn't get it to work. I'm
just going to install Debian to a USB stick as if it were a normal
disk and boot off that and work from there. Wish me luck
287[03:17:34] <w9e2> trying to customize the appearance of
debian, but am seeing some inconsistencies
288[03:18:24] <w9e2> one is that I changed the default icons,
but some of the icons haven't changed.
289[03:19:09] <w9e2> other issue is that some programs are not
picking up the window borders set in my theme. could be and issue
with some programs using GTK 2 versus GTK 3?
290[03:19:24] <w9e2> anyone have ideas on how to fix these?
291[03:19:32] <w9e2> im on debian 10 testing running cinnamon DE
292[03:19:48] <ryouma> does grml-rescueboot update the grml iso
or do you have to do that manually?
293[03:21:19] <sney> w9e2: not a cinnamon user, but I can
confirm that there are still gtk2 applications in the archive that
might not be cooperating with your theme. for icons, maybe the icon
package you installed doesn't cover all of your
applications/tools, so they're using fallback defaults.
298[03:22:47] <w9e2> so are the default programs on debian
mostly gtk2? im guessing thats what causing the inconsistent
appearance
299[03:23:20] <sney> ok, there is no such thing as "debian
10 testing" - testing is the dev platform for debian 11, so
your system has very little in common with debian 10.
300[03:23:58] <sney> also, debian tries to change upstream
software as little as possible. you have cinnamon 4.8.6 on bullseye?
steps to customize it are exactly the same as instructions from
cinnamon's website for 4.8
312[03:27:52] <sney> and no, "the default programs on
debian" are not mostly gtk2. when using a gtk desktop env,
they'll be mostly gtk3. but there are still some gtk2, like
hexchat
457[05:03:40] <urk> seems to be no end to my problems trying to
install Debian. I just burned the Debian installer using sudo dd
if=~/Downloads/debian-live-10.8.0-amd64-xfce+nonfree_stable.iso
of=/dev/sdc1 bs=4M, and after formating with sudo mkfs.ext4 /dev/sdc
I am now getting an error on the new laptop that there is no
bootable device, and wondering why? How do I fix this problem?
483[05:09:20] <ryouma> and i have seen it recommended to just
use cp
484[05:09:20] <abff> most installer iso files have the file
system already on it
485[05:09:39] <abff> and you just write the image directly to
the usb
486[05:09:48] <urk> dvs> Currently lsblk shows only sdc, and
not sdc1. The entire drive appears to have been used for the
installer.
487[05:09:52] <SponiX> does matter what method you use if your
target device isn't correct -- you are going to have a bad time
:P
488[05:09:58] <ryouma> next, the idea of partitioning is to put
filesystems on it with mkfs*. if you do this you can't boot
unless you populate the filesystem and get the boot loader on there
and so on.
489[05:10:20] <dvs> urk: that because you did mkfs.ext4 on
/dev/sdc, not /dev/sdc1
490[05:10:24] <urk> abff> There was stuff on the drive that
needed to be cleared off from earlier iso burns.
491[05:10:51] <abff> urk when you overwrite the usb you'll
clobber the old file system
492[05:10:52] <urk> dvs> jmcnaught previously recommended to
use the whole drive so that is why I did it.
493[05:11:32] <ryouma> perhaps this was referring to an iso
rather than a partitioning or mkfs?
495[05:11:42] <urk> abff> That was the intent, and the
partition was completely full from previous installer attempts.
496[05:11:47] <jmcnaught> urk: I have told you multiple times to
copy the debian ISO image to the device, not a partition. Your dd
command does the opposite of that. I have never told you to format
the USB stick with mkfs.
497[05:12:15] <dvs> That's what I thought
498[05:12:17] <urk> jmcnaught> I did exactly what you said,
but apparently sney didn't like it. Not sure why.
499[05:12:26] <dvs> urk, you did not
500[05:12:36] <abff> did your computer like it? that's all
that matters
501[05:12:42] <ryouma> hehe
502[05:12:44] <sney> it's like the things we tell you go
into a blender
503[05:12:57] <dvs> urk, you are confusing the entire disk with
a partition on a disk.
504[05:13:03] <sney> none of this is complicated enough to
justify the time spent
505[05:13:15] <urk> dvs> There are no partitions at this time
on /dev/sdc
506[05:13:28] <jmcnaught> 23:03 < urk> … I just
burned the Debian installer using sudo dd
if=~/Downloads/debian-live-10.8.0-amd64-xfce+nonfree_stable.iso
of=/dev/sdc1 bs=4M
507[05:13:29] <abff> urk great now copy the iso to the device
508[05:13:42] <jmcnaught> /dev/sdc1 is a partition. /dev/sdc is
a device.
509[05:13:46] <dvs> urk: because of mkfs.ext4 /dev/sdc which is
wrong. That wiped out all partitions.
533[05:36:13] <urk> jmcnaught> I did, and this time it
booted. Not sure what the problem was before. Previous attempts with
dd had no problem. I am at a screen that says "This
machine's firmware has started the installer in UEFI mode, but
it looks like there may be an existing OS already installed using
"BIOS compatibility mode". If you continue to install
Debian in UEFI mode, it might be difficult to reboot the machine
into any BIOS-mode operating
534[05:36:13] <urk> system later. If you wish to install in UEFI
mode, and don't care about keeping the ability to boot one of
the existing systems, youhave the option to force that here. If you
wish to keep the option to boot an existing OS, you should choose
NOT to force UEFI installation here. And then it asks yes or no.
535[05:36:29] <urk> Incidentally the network card still
won't install, but I haven't installed system components
as of yet.
536[05:36:39] <urk> I am going to again force UEFI.
554[05:48:45] <urk> Well, the issue of no firmware is still a
problem, but the installer was a lot smoother.
555[05:49:22] <urk> jmcnaught> So how do I copy this firmware
to the disk since there is no prompt for firmware? Should I do this
at the shell?
556[05:50:24] <jmcnaught> urk: finish the installation, boot
into the new Debian install, install the .deb files you downloaded
from a USB stick using "dpkg -i packagename.deb"
557[05:53:25] <urk> jmcnaught> I pulled the memory stick out
after finishing the install, rebooted, and get an error message
indicating no bootable devices found.
572[06:02:36] <urk> I'm going to delete the partitions I
created, but doubt likely that what I created is the cause of the
problem. I think there is more than one thing going on here. I
don't think missing firmware is the only problem. It should
have booted
573[06:02:48] <jmcnaught> urk: if you choose "Guided - use
entire disk" (with or without LVM) then it will delete the
partitions and use a sensible layout.
575[06:04:40] <jmcnaught> urk: my basic advice is simplify as
much as possible, do as straight-forward an install as you can. For
most questions accept the default, but read the questions carefully.
Use the guided partitioning. Now that you have copied the Debian ISO
to USB correctly there's no reason for it not to work.
585[06:08:34] <jmcnaught> urk: you have had so much trouble and
spent so much time doing this already I think it is worth spending
20-30 minutes doing a quick basic install to verify you can install
Debian to this computer.
587[06:10:48] <urk> jmcnaught> Out of curiousity, which
partition is the grub boot loader normally stored in?
588[06:12:36] <elios> "This is a collection of some of
those scripts on a purely subjective and biased basis." who
writes this shit?
589[06:12:37] <jmcnaught> urk: on an UEFI system grub is
installed to the EFI System Partition (ESP) which on Debian is
normally mounted under /boot/efi
590[06:12:40] <urk> It booted. Looks like GRUB didn't like
something with my previous configuration, but not sure what.
599[06:23:50] <urk> sda1 is apparently where the firmware is
located at, but I am having trouble mounting the drive. Get an error
message indicating its not found in /etc/fstab
600[06:24:14] <jmcnaught> What command did you use? Did you
specify a mount point?
601[06:26:54] <urk> mount /dev/sda1 which is where the device is
602[06:27:00] <urk> I am already in root.
603[06:28:02] <elios> i don't know what to do, but vim
leaves artifacts with every other exisitng colorscheme when starting
it with `vi` from a virtual terminal.
609[06:30:59] <elios> it's basically the background color
of your terminal except top and bottom line and where the text is.
after [i]nsert it changes line after line.
610[06:31:02] <urk> usb is detected at root, but not in the gui.
618[06:35:06] <jmcnaught> elios: cool, there's another
channel on a different network for testing
619[06:35:10] <jmcnaught> !debian-next
620[06:35:10] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for
testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not*
on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is
invite only)." it means you did not read it's on
irc.oftc.net. See also
replaced-url
621[06:35:21] <elios> right, oftc.
622[06:37:47] <elios> jmcnaught: do you have to register first?
625[06:39:25] <jmcnaught> elios: are you still on freenode?
It's on OFTC. the channel mode there is +cnt so I don't
think you need to be registered
626[06:40:59] <urk> jmcnaught> I attempted to install two of
the firmwares with dpkg -i, and i received the folloowing three
messages: 1) 'ldconfig' not found in PATH or not in PATH
or not executable, 2) 'start-stop-daemon' not found in
PATH or not executable, and 3) error: 2 expected programs not found
in PATH or not executable. And there was a note at the end that said
Note: root's PATH should usually contain /usr/local/sbin,
usr/sbin, and /sbin.
628[06:42:17] <jmcnaught> urk: you probably became root with the
"su" command when you needed to use "su -l" to
get a proper root environment including PATH with /sbin.
629[06:43:00] <jmcnaught> !buster su
630[06:43:00] <dpkg> In buster, su no longer overrides PATH by
default, requiring that you use "su -" or "su
-l" for login shells (which is not really a new thing at
all...). See
replaced-url
632[06:43:38] <SponiX> jmcnaught: Yeah, can't say I'm
in agreement with that, as it is just one more thing to remember and
I like sanity "out of the box" :)
642[06:47:01] <urk> dpkg -i and the two firmware file names
643[06:47:01] * dpkg removes a kidney from urk and replaces it with
and the two firmware file names
644[06:47:59] <jmcnaught> urk: do them one at a time, use
<TAB> completion to make sure the filename is correct
645[06:49:40] <ryouma> i thought it was necessary so the factoid
is confusing --- 22:44 <jmcnaught> I always used "su
-" before buster because I read somewhere a long time ago it
was safer.
646[06:49:51] <ryouma> i.e. i thought it always was what it sayd
647[06:51:21] <urk> jmcnaught> ok, both are installed.
648[06:51:59] *** Quits: rare_energy (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Quit: who knows)
649[06:52:15] <jmcnaught> urk: did you also install
linux-image-5.10.0-0.bpo.3-amd64_5.10.13-1~bpo10+1_amd64.deb ?
654[06:55:22] <jmcnaught> urk: if you installed both
linux-image…amd64.deb and firmware-iwlwifi…deb you
could reboot and try using wifi (I don't know if you installed
a GUI or not)
656[06:55:48] <jmcnaught> urk: I had previously also recommended
installing firmware-misc-nonfree but you can do that after you get
networking working.
657[06:56:09] <jmcnaught> urk: if you did not install a GUI then
you may need to install additional packages to get wifi working,
like wpasupplicant
665[07:02:54] <jmcnaught> I don't know xfce very well, I
use GNOME. But my first instinct would be to right-click somewhere
on the desktop to see if there's a context menu that lets you
add a new menu bar.
666[07:04:33] <ndorf> yep
667[07:04:49] <ndorf> right click desktop, then select
Applications -> Settings -> Panel
668[07:05:21] <abff> alt+f3 is the default keyboard shortcut to
open the application selector too
672[07:13:47] <urk> Its getting really late, and I will need to
continue this tomorrow. I took note of your recommendation to
install wpasupplicant, and firmware-misc-nonfree.
673[07:14:37] <urk> I just checked and wpasupplicant is already
installed.
674[07:15:21] <jmcnaught> urk: that's good, and nice
progress today. You might have everything you need installed to
connect to a wifi network now. You will probably still need to
configure /etc/apt/sources.list
675[07:16:18] <urk> jmcnaught> Still not getting any wifi
detection.
676[07:17:13] <urk> At this point I only have vi to work with so
installing wifi would allow me to install vim
677[07:18:15] <urk> I should be able to the sources.list without
help. but not sure what to think of the missing wifi
678[07:19:31] <jmcnaught> I am sure that you will figure it out
tomorrow.
679[07:19:41] <urk> Thanks again for all of your help.
702[08:08:15] <MegaCarp> im on debian 10 xfce logging with
remmina onto a xrdp server. let's say my physical pc hangs and
i want to reboot it but i'm stuck looking at remote rdp
session. i press alt+sysrq SUB to reboot - can it possibly do
anything with xrdp session? i'm sure it won't reboot the
server but could it possibly pass through the remmina to reboot the
remote session and have me lose some work?
719[08:42:00] <jolt> MegaCarp: that sounds like an exotic setup.
I think you will have to try it to find out. I have a hard time
beliving that alt+sysrq would trigger anything remote, but I dunno.
720[08:42:31] <jolt> Install a vm and test it on there?
725[08:44:29] <MegaCarp> jolt: uh, if you think that it's
exotic then there has been a miscommunication: there's a server
with xrdp. people log onto it with remmina using RDP. it can pass
through hotkeys so I was wondering what would sysrq+SUB do in the
described situation
726[08:45:01] <MegaCarp> a vm test makes sense, thanks, though
it would take time to set up... i suppose this is as good time as
any to learn debian scripted install
734[08:50:00] *** Joins: mezzo (~mezzo@replaced-ip)
735[08:50:42] <jolt> MegaCarp: preseed is easy! Get a preseed
file, put on webserver, select automated install in the installer,
point to the server and boom, done!
740[08:56:38] <abff> MegaCarp: this sounds like a question for a
windows person. I can't find anything that says RDP will ignore
sysreq key presses.
741[08:57:59] <abff> Maybe xrdp will ignore them instead, for
safety. I'll keep looking
742[08:58:00] <MegaCarp> abff: xrdp is on debian server. client
machines are (mostly) using remmina, the protocol used is RDP -
we're not talking about WINRD
749[09:01:32] <jaggz> anyone know how I can get my hands on cuda
samples dir?
750[09:01:54] <jaggz> This project is looking for it, and its
test is to look in the cuda toolkit directory for a folder
"samples/"
751[09:01:58] <MegaCarp> abff: i strongly expect it
wouldn't touch the server - it'd be insanity otherwise.
but i also care about the user session - i don't want to lose
even stupid stuff like opened tabs if it can be avoided. i,
basically, want to know if i should be telling users to use
sysrq+SUB or press the power button
752[09:02:07] <jaggz> It then proceeds to use that as an include
path with "samples/common/inc"
755[09:03:34] <MegaCarp> jolt: i'm an advanced noob, is
there a step-by-step guide however i should put it onto a webserver?
like, would gist work?... i probably don't want gist -
it'd expose personal information.
781[09:29:32] <Nindustries> In other news: anyone used squid in
transparent mode? I'm getting ERROR: NF
getsockopt(ORIGINAL_DST) failed on local=172.17.0.2:3129
remote=172.17.0.1:61146 FD 13 flags=33: (2) No such file or
directory
878[10:30:42] <TheBigK> eblip: i would say the download page of
the project has a wallet that u can download
879[10:31:01] <TheBigK> is a bin file... so no debian package...
but atleast its tested against ubuntu. so the chances are high that
it works on debian too
880[10:31:22] <eblip> yes i just found one there TheBigK ..but i
got a wallet from debian called electrum for bitcoin
881[10:31:37] <eblip> so just thought id ask in case i was
missing something with a weird name
1001[12:29:29] <jelly> oh then it's the same as i5-8xxx
1002[12:30:28] <jelly> H4ndy, but that page doesn't list
i5-7xxx
1003[12:30:30] <genr8> surprise all intel chips are the same for
the past 6 years ;P
1004[12:30:53] <H4ndy> Coffee Lake is a Kaby Lake refresh and
they use the same GPU
1005[12:31:15] <H4ndy> both list the HD 630 as their GPU
1006[12:31:43] <H4ndy> > The UHD Graphics 630 is simply a
rebranding and is otherwise identical to the HD Graphics 630 found
in desktop Kaby Lake processors.
1007[12:32:51] <jelly> eh
1008[12:33:40] <jelly> then it ought to support the exact same
stuff as this i5-8365U laptop I'm writing from
1009[12:34:40] <jelly> NetTerminalGene, install vainfo, show
output before installing intel-media-va-driver-non-free and after
1010[12:34:52] <genr8> whats the point of using the onboard GPU
to encode. reduce cpu usage ?
1011[12:35:00] <NetTerminalGene> i5 7400 have HD 630, nıt UHD
1012[12:35:13] <jelly> the free i965-va-driver won't have
all the encoding stuff
1013[12:35:15] <NetTerminalGene> genr8: faster
1014[12:35:25] <genr8> i find that hard to believe
1015[12:35:27] <jelly> both of those.
1016[12:36:09] <jelly> genr8, there are more GPU shaders to feed
numbers into than there are AVX in the CPU, apparently
1022[12:39:12] <genr8> i feel like its a power consumption or
efficiency thing
1023[12:39:21] <jelly> of course it is
1024[12:40:03] <genr8> a multi-core CPU would beat a little intel
gpu, cause think about it, it beats even a full fledged nvidia NVEnc
1025[12:40:49] <jelly> which is why !tias
1026[12:42:11] <jelly> I have not tried to use any encoding,
except within a browser for video meetings and it was a bit of a
pain to coerce chrome to think there's hw accel encoding there
1040[12:49:26] <koollman> genr8: versus a 22 core cpu, yes.
1041[12:49:48] <koollman> genr8: now, if you have something
slower than that (or a gpu faster than the gtx 1060 used in the
comparison), the gap wides
1042[12:49:54] <koollman> *widens
1043[12:51:05] *** Quits: citypw (~citypw@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1044[12:51:53] <koollman> using both on the same stream would be
weird/hard. they aren't doing the exact same thing, and most
modern encoders rely on rather few reference pictures. basically you
would encode small segments of the video and paste them together at
the end, but it would magnify any difference in encoding artefact
when going from a segment to the next
1103[14:07:44] <oxek> what's a realistic thing I can do when
there's the unfortunate situation where a package has a CVE
fixed in buster-stable, but the version in buster-backports has not
been fixed in months?
1131[14:28:01] <ratrace> Jenkler: technically yes if dependencies
are satisfied. definitely not advisable
1132[14:28:30] <Jenkler> but I am unable to install it. apt-cache
search does not find any hexchat
1133[14:28:37] <oxek> !bat
1134[14:28:37] <dpkg> [Basic Apt* Troubleshooting]. To diagnose
your problem, we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete
output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used)
2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL
packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache
policy". Use
replaced-url
1135[14:28:41] <oxek> Jenkler: read that^
1136[14:28:47] <oxek> and tell us what you've tried so far
1139[14:32:01] <Jenkler> oxek shuld i be able to find hexchat
with standard buster sources. As you can se I cant find anything.
Wonder if ther is a key issue or something
1183[14:41:38] <Jenkler> Do I do this in sources.list?
1184[14:41:41] <ratrace> yes
1185[14:42:00] <ratrace> change the URL of deb.debian.org to
whichever mirror you want, and re-run apt update
1186[14:43:04] <oxek> ratrace: but if `apt update` successfully
completes, then it shouldn't matter which mirror one is using,
`apt-cache search hexchat` should return the correct result
1187[14:43:29] <ratrace> update can be successful with broken,
corrupt, incomplete database
1188[14:43:48] <ratrace> it's just a theory based on
previous experience. give it a shot, worst case it won't fix
anything.
1189[14:43:56] <oxek> oh really?
1190[14:44:12] <oxek> I always got some messages from apt
whenever there was something wrong with either the remote server or
local database
1191[14:44:33] <ratrace> oxek: well if apt gets a file in valid
format, it has no clue whether the list is complete or incomplete,
and assumes that's all there is
1193[14:45:11] <oxek> ratrace: is my understanding correct that
the file retrieved by `apt update` is generated by debian people,
and then mirrored on the mirrors? I.e. it is not generated by the
mirrors themselves?
1194[14:45:24] <ratrace> that's my understanding as well
1195[14:45:45] <oxek> if that's the case, then if the file
was borked, then it would affect all mirrors, and we'd already
have a bunch of people in here with broken setups
1197[14:46:02] <ratrace> no. in theory, it's possible one or
more mirrors are serving stale files
1198[14:46:18] <oxek> but apt-cache search is happening locally,
no?
1199[14:46:23] <ratrace> or there was incomplete database
generation, sent to mirrors, corrected and completed, re-sent to
mirrors but not all synced up the new version
1200[14:46:50] <ratrace> it's searching in the database
fetched by apt update
1203[14:47:17] <dpkg> Debian mirrors have timestamp files we use
to determine how recently they have been updated. Here are some
statistics the mirror maintainers provide:
replaced-url
1204[14:47:24] <oxek> I suppose you're right, if the file
was generated incorrectly, sent to mirrors, then fixed and sent to
mirrors again, there would be a brief time when things are borked
1209[14:48:39] <TheBigK> is someone of u running ipvs
loadbalancer on debian basis? im considering it for a test case...
what kind of failover method would u recommend. more like keepalive
or more like something else
1212[14:49:20] <ratrace> I use DNS failover, because IP failover
would still have the standby behind the same router in the same
datacenter, in my case, so DNS is more complete
1213[14:49:48] <oxek> Jenkler: let us know your progress,
I've never seen this happen before
1214[14:50:29] <Jenkler> is this correct ; deb
replaced-url
1215[14:50:45] <Jenkler> it complain when updateing
1268[15:03:04] *** Quits: L (~LoRez@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1269[15:03:05] <oxek> the only difference is that once bullseye
(debian 11) is officially released, then 'stable' will
upgrade to bullseye, whereas buster will keep on being buster
1270[15:03:35] <TheBigK> and version changes might break things
depending what u run on ur machine
1282[15:09:23] <Jenkler> heeh, yes. I am used to Gentoo and
Alpine Linux
1283[15:09:53] <Jenkler> But on chromebooks debian is default in
Linux beta
1284[15:10:05] <oxek> is that debian installation some
docker/lxc/lxd thing?
1285[15:10:20] <Jenkler> jepp, its lxd
1286[15:10:21] <TheBigK> Jenkler: i used to use gentoo as 64bit
for me was a thing... i thought... gentoo was so well documented...
reminds me alot of archlinux these days
1287[15:10:38] <oxek> yeah, I noticed that LXD does not include
the buster-updates repo in the sources.list
1288[15:10:40] <oxek> don't really know why
1289[15:10:46] <ratrace> The Alot reminds a lot of people,
frequently, yes.
1290[15:10:46] <Jenkler> I mostly use Alpine now
1291[15:11:21] <TheBigK> Jenkler: i just come across it inside
docker. im not rly sure what i should think about alpine... didnt
give it a real shot yet
1292[15:11:27] <ratrace> oxek: by that you mean some LXD default
image somwhere in some hub?
1293[15:11:30] <Jenkler> oxek how do I add buster-updates
1294[15:11:39] <ratrace> !sources.list
1295[15:11:39] <dpkg> A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for
"Buster" has the lines: "deb
replaced-url
1296[15:11:52] <Jenkler> is it like main
1297[15:12:09] <oxek> Jenkler: my sources.list
replaced-url
1298[15:12:11] <ratrace> the buster/updates vs buster-updates
confusion will be resolved with bullseye, where bullseye/updates
will be no more, just bullseye-security instead of it
1336[15:19:41] <oxek> ratrace: it already is, isn't it?
Unless you have NetworkManager installed.
1337[15:19:57] <ratrace> afaik no
1338[15:20:09] <tcurdt> hm ... I don't see ... "dpkg -l
| grep systemd" doesn't list it for me on buster
1339[15:20:17] <ratrace> if by already you mean buster.
1340[15:20:27] <ratrace> tcurdt: list what?
1341[15:20:44] <tcurdt> systemd-resoved ... or whatever the exact
name is
1342[15:20:48] <ratrace> it's not a separate package.
it's a service. systemd-resolved.service
1343[15:20:54] <tcurdt> aaaah .... ok
1344[15:20:56] <oxek> `systemctl status systemd-resolved`
1345[15:21:26] *** Quits: L (~LoRez@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1346[15:21:26] <ratrace> I'd recommend masking it and
setting up your resolving somehow else (bind, unbound, dnsmasq, none
at all (use external resolver))
1347[15:21:49] <oxek> does systemd as a whole now have more lines
of code than the linux kernel? I thought I read something like that,
but don't know if it was a joke or not
1366[15:25:41] <oxek> huh, I guess operating systems are really
simple then ;)
1367[15:26:03] <ratrace> linux kernel is not an operating system
tho ;)
1368[15:26:09] <oxek> yeah, I misspoke
1369[15:26:17] <ratrace> unless you mean linux + middleware
(systemd) + gnu parts
1370[15:26:24] <oxek> it's GNU/Linux!
1371[15:26:31] <ratrace> was GNU/Linux
1372[15:26:41] <oxek> GNU/systemd/Linux now? :p
1373[15:26:47] <ratrace> these days it'd be very, very
hypocritical to call it GNU/Linux
1374[15:27:24] <oxek> to be fair, I don't really know the
story of why it would be called GNU/Linux, and it doesn't sound
like a technical distinction that would matter to me
1375[15:27:42] <dreamer> because linux is only the kernel
1376[15:27:49] <dreamer> and most of the tooling around it is GNU
1377[15:28:06] <ratrace> well some time ago RMS felt hurt that
everyone called the distro "Linux" while that was just the
kernel and userland was borrowed from GNU
1378[15:28:15] <dreamer> "borrowed"? :P
1379[15:28:20] <dreamer> I mean GNU nearly had a full OS
1380[15:28:25] <dreamer> they just needed a working kernel
1381[15:28:29] <oxek> Hurd!
1382[15:28:40] <dreamer> and here comes Linus Torvalds with his
little pet project that he opensourced
1389[15:29:13] <ratrace> define "OS" tho. and how much
of that is provided by systemd these days. and soon LLVM might
completely displace GCC so it'd be even less of GNU/Linux unles
"GNU" is just one of the components in the full name :)
1390[15:29:19] <ychaouche> yo debianeros
1391[15:29:45] <dreamer> how is LLVM going to replace GCC
exactly?
1392[15:29:47] <ychaouche> I'm looking for a
xtables-addons-dkms package in buster, can't find it
1393[15:30:01] <ratrace> dreamer: by being preferred compiler for
.... everything
1394[15:30:03] <oxek> dreamer: kernel can be successfully
compiled with llvm instead of gcc now
1395[15:30:11] <dreamer> is it though?
1396[15:30:25] <oxek> llvm is neat
1397[15:30:38] <ychaouche> I used this module in jessie for geoip
fencing
1398[15:30:48] <oxek> I get all sorts of new warnings for my code
to ignore :D
1402[15:32:23] <oxek> "Look, when we compile this code with
llvm, it gives us so many new warnings to indicate possible
bugs", "Neat. *adds those warnings to ignore list*"
1403[15:32:26] <ratrace> dreamer: it's not yet but it's
getting there. distros are using LLVM more and more, eg. Mandriva is
using it as default, Fedora is considering, there's effort to
make the kenrel fully compileable by LLVM, etc...
1429[15:37:19] <oxek> ratrace: not really welcoming it, just
realizing that I need some of those apps and would make my life
easier if they were packaged in debian
1431[15:38:01] <ratrace> snap install them. that's waht you
get with the electron mindset anyway
1432[15:38:07] <oxek> electron is an atrocity, but it's an
atrocity that I've used to create a lot of stuff that saved me
from homelessness/starvation/death
1433[15:38:41] <oxek> ratrace: yeah, but I prefer the debian way,
with the debian "social contract" or whatever it's
called
1440[15:40:07] <oxek> well, you either pospone it for a max 60
(90?) days, after which it definitely updates, or you disable the
service, at which point you can't do anything snap related
1441[15:40:14] <ratrace> apt purge snapd no moar snapd auto
update problems :))
1446[15:40:50] <ychaouche> ratrace, should I try and build it
myself ?
1447[15:40:51] <ratrace> one the devs see nothing wrong about.
explains everything.
1448[15:41:03] <ychaouche> ratrace, not the kernel of course
1449[15:41:42] <oxek> ratrace: that's the perfect
description of it - it's not the fact that it behaves that way,
it's the fact that the devs see nothing wrong with it. It
really tells you something about the mindset of those devs, which
makes you question whether you should be using anything from them.
1461[15:44:21] <ratrace> so it could be backported?
1462[15:44:24] <oxek> yes
1463[15:44:32] <ratrace> !ssb
1464[15:44:32] <dpkg> First, check for a backport on
<debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for
sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable
debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) apt update; apt install
build-essential; apt build-dep packagename 4) apt -b source
packagename 5) dpkg -i packagename-ver.deb To change compilation
options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid
see <uupdate>.
1465[15:44:38] <ratrace> ychaouche: check that then ^^^
1466[15:44:53] * ychaouche reading
1467[15:45:02] <oxek> and install debhelper-compat from backports
first
1472[15:47:08] * ychaouche used to configure make make install
1473[15:47:53] <node1> Any application in Debian that will show
on my desktop two time zone along with UTC timing?
1474[15:48:15] <ychaouche> <debian-backports> how do I ask
the about this ?
1475[15:48:34] <ychaouche> !debian-backports
1476[15:48:34] <dpkg> backports.debian.org (formerly
backports.org) is an official repository of <backports> for
the current stable (see <buster backports>) and oldstable
(<stretch backports>) distributions, prepared by Debian
developers. Ask me about <backport caveat> and read
replaced-url
1514[16:08:42] <jhutchins> oxek: Judd is our access to the
Universal Debian Database. It has indicies of current program
versions and some hardware information, other basic things.
1515[16:10:00] <EdePopede> there's also dpkg, but i think
i've spotted a 3rd one recently?
1516[16:11:36] <oxek> we need to find the bots in here and watch
them closely, perhaps we'll at least see the uprising coming
which might give us a fighting chance
1528[16:19:44] <GenTooMan> the bots I am least worried about
it's the people swing the morning stars with the insane grin on
their face and T-shirts that say "Club YOU today!"
1549[16:28:16] *** jaggz is now known as jaggzPlea
1550[16:28:56] <tcurdt> dns resolving question: when I have
inside resolve.conf a domain and search set, when I do a "dig
foo" should it try and resolve "dig foo.domain"
first?
1551[16:29:06] *** Quits: L (~LoRez@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1552[16:31:04] <tcurdt> ah ... ok ... it seems to work when I
>don't< use dig
1584[16:58:28] <imMute> I think all you need to do is have the
backports repo enabled and apt will pick it up (as it's a
higher version number than the non-backports version)
1585[17:00:09] <TheSilentLink> It looks like it's missing an
arm64 build for 5.10
1811[18:10:07] <neilthereildeil> im trying to copy my root file
system. what does this command do? tar -cvpf - --one-file-system
--acls --xattrs --selinux /
1812[18:10:36] *** Quits: L (~LoRez@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1823[18:11:43] <imMute> it's the filename, and a dash
typically means "write to stdout"
1824[18:12:28] <ratrace> neilthereildeil: so maybe instead of
copypasting something you saw somewhere in different context, ask
what you want to achieve instead
1829[18:13:33] <neilthereildeil> i need to copy my / filesystem
to another partition, overwrite my / partition with an LVM volume,
and then copy my / FS back from the other partition
1830[18:13:40] <neilthereildeil> im following
replaced-url
1850[18:19:06] <neilthereildeil> also, why does step 4 of that
link have a cp command also?
1851[18:19:17] <ratrace> then that - is argument to -f, meanign
it outputs the tar stream to stdout. that would require you to pipe
it into another tar and into a file, so why not use a proper
file/path then
1852[18:19:19] <neilthereildeil> why do i need the cp if i am
already tar-ing everything up?
1854[18:19:41] <neilthereildeil> this is what im going to do: tar
-cvpf - --one-file-system --acls --xattrs --selinux / | tar -C
/mnt/NEW_ROOT_PARTITION -xf
1855[18:19:47] <neilthereildeil> but why do i need to cp after?
1856[18:19:52] <ratrace> neilthereildeil: don't do that
1857[18:20:14] <ratrace> for your purpose, it suffices to tar
everything up, then untar back to new rootfs
1858[18:20:26] <neilthereildeil> ok so just this line: tar -cvpf
- --one-file-system --acls --xattrs --selinux / | tar -C
/mnt/NEW_ROOT_PARTITION -xf
1859[18:20:34] <ratrace> there's no reason to tar to stdout,
then pipe to another tar and untar into another fs, only to have
that reverse later
1860[18:20:37] <neilthereildeil> skip this line: cp -aux /dev
/mnt/NEW_ROOT_PARTITION
1870[18:22:29] <ratrace> seems like their line of thinking is
that since you tarred up with --one-file-system, you should
"copy" /dev which is a pseudofilesystem, but that's
stupid, as /dev is automatically populated on boot
1871[18:22:30] <neilthereildeil> it seems my tar is old and
doesnt have support for some of these options
1872[18:22:42] <ratrace> I don't know if cp also copies
xattrs
1894[18:28:29] <neilthereildeil> how sould i be dealing with
symlinks?
1895[18:28:51] <ratrace> that should work according to the
manpage, though I can't vouch from experience if there's
some unobvious gotcha. I've been using rsync like forever for
entire filesystem transfers
1896[18:29:16] <ratrace> neilthereildeil: symlinks are preserved
according to the manpage, in -a
1934[18:42:26] <jelly> neilthereildeil, install it
1935[18:42:34] <neilthereildeil> i cant
1936[18:42:48] <jelly> procps package
1937[18:42:56] <ratrace> neilthereildeil: you should really get a
_proper_ rescue environment. ubuntu live ISO is a good one, and can
apt install stuff, has zfs, and a full blown desktop to enjoy por^W
youtube while it copies
1938[18:43:13] *** berndj-blackout is now known as berndj
1939[18:43:19] <neilthereildeil> i mean..i booted to debian
"RESCUE" mode
1940[18:43:24] <ratrace> not just for this. it's wise to
have one handy in case you need to rescue stuff..... it also sounds
like you don't have backups at all, so consider implementing a
backup solution asap.
1941[18:43:35] <jelly> I can recommend grml.org as a rescue live
image
1943[18:43:50] <ratrace> debian "rescue" mode is not
really a proper rescue environment and thenaming is unfortunate
1944[18:43:51] <jelly> it's debian based, has zsh, has
screen
1945[18:44:00] <ratrace> is ukranian
1946[18:44:17] <jelly> not Austrian or German?
1947[18:44:21] <ratrace> I don't trust ukranian :) call me
raciss.
1948[18:44:32] <jelly> thas raciss.
1949[18:45:29] <ratrace> eventually the best rescue env is if you
build your own. I have a full blown debian installation with all the
tools I might need (and others are apt install away), wifi configs
included for my portrable wifi stick, firmware, drivers installed,
etc.... before that, I used ubuntu live ISO.
1951[18:45:53] *** Quits: L (~LoRez@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1952[18:45:58] <ratrace> having your own, you preconfigure it for
your hardware, especially when it comes to out of tree drivers or
firmware needed, and configs for network and wifi.
1953[18:46:02] <jelly> I have grml.org, comes with all the
firmware every server I ever used needs
1954[18:46:31] <milkt> cp -a hardlink:
replaced-url
1955[18:46:52] <jelly> yay!
1956[18:46:57] <jelly> and sparse files?
1957[18:47:16] <ratrace> am I reading that correct? different
inodes?
1958[18:47:25] <jelly> selinux / other xattrs? It probably does
posix acls.
1959[18:47:39] <jelly> same inodes.
1960[18:48:19] <jelly> of course copies will probably have
different inum from originals, unless you're accidentally lucky
1961[18:48:31] <ratrace> ahhh right, x and y are hardlinked.... I
was looking between a and b
1962[18:49:24] <ratrace> wellthen! aside from sparse files, cp -a
should do the trick
1995[18:55:56] <EdePopede> "It's gnome." -
isn't this already a bug? ;)
1996[18:56:16] <Druid> please dont hate short people
1997[18:56:24] <jelly> "default to COW"
1998[18:56:27] <jelly> !moo
1999[18:56:27] <dpkg> mooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh
twice as much as you. I'm a cow, eating grass, methane gas
comes out my ass. I'm a cow, you could be too; join us all!
type apt-get moo; aplay
/usr/lib/libreoffice/share/gallery/sounds/cow.wav
2000[18:56:42] <neilthereildeil> dude this debian resuce
environment sucks
2001[18:56:48] <ratrace> YouDontSay(tm)
2002[18:56:52] <jelly> yeah, we agree
2003[18:56:56] <neilthereildeil> theres no tools there and its
all old versions of binaries in a busybox binary
2023[19:00:54] <jelly> only like 15 years since ext4 started
keeping track of file creation
2024[19:01:20] <jelly> no more crazy stuff like
2025[19:01:23] <jelly> !crtime
2026[19:01:23] <dpkg> Some filesystems may store creation time
after all, even if POSIX APIs don't expose it. Ext4 does. E.g.,
to check how long ago your root filesystem root directory was
created: f="/"; dev=`df -P "$f"|tail -n1|awk
'{print $1}'`; i=`stat -c%i "$f"`; sudo debugfs
-R"stat <$i>" "$dev" 2>&1|grep
^crtime
2027[19:01:34] <dob1> ps aux is cutting the user, what can I do ?
2028[19:01:35] <ratrace> but that's okay. took 21+ years for
debian to unconfuse itself and rename <release>/updates into
<release>-security finally, properly.
2034[19:03:02] <oxek> ratrace: what do you mean? Afaik it's
still messy, debian-security buster/updates
2035[19:03:14] <oxek> vs debian buster-updates
2036[19:03:41] <ratrace> oxek: it comes with bullseye.
bullseye-security instead of bullseye/updates
2037[19:03:43] <dob1> jelly, no... but really? it's still
calculating 80 col in 2021?
2038[19:04:01] <jelly> we have like 4 meanings for "updates,
more if combined with prefixes
2039[19:04:29] <EdePopede> dob1: that's still the default
width of an xterm
2040[19:04:51] <dob1> EdePopede, how many ppl use xterm?
2041[19:05:09] <ratrace> I used to cry about 80 cols being super
ancient in 21st century..... until I started using tileable WMs and
now I'm loving 80 col defaults in tools and things :)
2042[19:05:22] <EdePopede> dob1: i know at least one
2043[19:05:24] <oxek> ratrace: that sounds nice, one less dir
indirection
2044[19:05:38] <oxek> looking forward to bullseye for one more
reason
2074[19:12:16] <oxek> dpkg is running from some win95 computer in
someone's basement
2075[19:12:16] <dpkg> oxek: no idea
2076[19:12:16] <RoyK> nothing later
2077[19:12:21] <EdePopede> !parsing ls
2078[19:12:21] <dpkg> Trying to manipulate the output of
"ls" isn't a very good idea at all: the output varies
when you change locales or even between different versions of
coreutils (let alone between linux and other unices). The output of
ls was never designed to be fed into other programs and if you have
odd characters like spaces or newlines in your filenames then you
will strike trouble. See
replaced-url
2079[19:12:24] <EdePopede> this!
2080[19:12:52] <EdePopede> though the only place where i've
seen such filenames was on freenode :)
2081[19:13:30] <oxek> RoyK: yeah, don't parse ls, I've
learned not to do it recently because it spectacularly failed for me
2082[19:13:45] <EdePopede> avoiding control characters kept me
away from related troubles for more than 2 decades now
2083[19:13:46] <oxek> now I do either shell globs or properly
pipe find output into stuff
2088[19:15:11] <EdePopede> what i'm missing for find and
other alternatives is sorting. sometimes i just have to do it
chronologically and that's a pita w/o ls
2089[19:15:14] <dob1> EdePopede, it's not the same, if you
have users with common name on ps output you can't distingush
them if their login is > 8 chars... you can use id ok but
it's not so nice
2111[19:29:28] <wr> 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]:
NVIDIA Corporation G73M [GeForce Go 7600] [10de:0398] (rev a1), what
would be the correct graphics driver to install on debian 10?
2112[19:30:16] <ratrace> wr: you can use nvidia.com driver search
to see which version supports teh card, then compare against
versions available in debian
2115[19:31:01] <sney> for something that old, nouveau + firmware
will probably give you the same performance as any of the
proprietary blobs
2116[19:31:37] <sney> !nouveau firmware
2117[19:31:37] <dpkg> Binary-only firmware for the nouveau
<DRM> driver is packaged for Debian as firmware-misc-nonfree.
Without this package installed, poor 2D/3D performance and/or
missing video features in the <nouveau> xorg driver is
commonly experienced. To install, ask me about <non-free
sources>.
2122[19:34:04] <oxek> anyone know if nvidia is going to be
friendlier to linux? They must be getting loads of money from crypto
miners and CUDA, all of which runs on linux afaik
2165[20:08:18] <urk> ndorf> Is there a way to make the panel
permanently resident when launching Debian? I have to redoe the
steps you suggested every time I bootup: right click the desktop,
select applications, select settings, and select panel.
2166[20:08:21] *** Quits: ecdhe (~ecdhe@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2173[20:09:29] <milkt> urk: which DE or WM are you using?
2174[20:10:04] <urk> milkt> stable
2175[20:10:20] <milkt> urk: which "desktop environment"
or "window manager" are you using?
2176[20:10:30] <urk> xfce
2177[20:10:59] <urk> dpkg -i firmware-names was added for two
packages yesterday which may have caused Debbie to have indigestion.
2178[20:10:59] * dpkg installs firmware-names was added for two
packages yesterday which may have caused Debbie to have indigestion.
into urk's head with a bone saw and a few screws
2179[20:11:34] *** Quits: heydrickx (~benny@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2180[20:12:00] <wr> sney, ratrace i had it working before, thing
is with just firmware-misc-nonfree i am at 640resol
2182[20:12:21] <urk> I still don't have internet even though
the firmware for the Intel Linux driver was added. My initial
thoughts are that the driver now needs to be revisited.
2192[20:16:29] *** jotaxpe_ is now known as jotaxpe
2193[20:18:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1071
2194[20:18:13] <ndorf> urk: sorry, i don't know for sure --
i would expect those changes to be saved automatically. hopefully
someone more familiar with xfce can help you more
2195[20:18:25] <urk> jmcnaught> I have not added backports to
the /etc/apt/sources.list
2196[20:19:01] <urk> jmcnaught> Since I don't have
internet I would assume there is no way to access backports at this
point.
2198[20:19:32] <jmcnaught> urk: maybe I'm wrong but last
night I thought that you used "dpkg -i …" to
install a manually downloaded linux kernel package that was from
backports.
2202[20:21:01] <jmcnaught> urk: you need more than just firmware
for your wifi to work, you need a newer kernel too. Specifically
this one:
replaced-url
2204[20:21:35] *** Quits: Kel (~KelMonsta@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2205[20:22:10] <miguel_clean> I just read that "Currently
the Debian armhf port requires at least an Armv7 CPU with Thumb-2
and VFP3D16." Does this match this Features : swp half thumb
fastmult vfp edsp neon vfpv3 tls ? of my ARMv7 Processor rev 1 (v7l)
?
2206[20:22:29] *** Quits: basicmiracle (uid213868@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2207[20:22:48] <urk> These are the two files that were installed
with "dpkg -i":
linux-image-5.10.0-0.bpo.3-amd64_5.10.13-1~bpo10+1_amd64, and
firmware-iwlwifi_20200918-1~bpo10+1_all
2214[20:25:32] <jmcnaught> urk: either you did not properly
install the linux-image-5.10...amd64.deb package, or you went out of
your way during the GRUB boot menu to use the older kernel.
2220[20:27:35] <urk> Should I try reinstalling:
linux-image-5.10.0-0.bpo.3-amd64_5.10.13-1~bpo10+1_amd64 with dpkg
-i ???
2221[20:27:46] <jmcnaught> urk: try to install those packages
again with "dpkg -i packagefilename.deb" make sure when
you become root you use "su -l" and pay close attend to
the output watching for errors.
2228[20:37:02] *** Quits: dreamon (~dreamon@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2229[20:38:04] <urk> jmcnaught> Are these installed at
root@localhost:~# ???
2230[20:39:24] <jmcnaught> urk: I do not understand your
question, but it does not matter what directory you are in when you
install the packages if you specify the full absolute path to the
files.
2231[20:39:51] <jmcnaught> urk: last night you did "mount
/dev/sda1 /mnt" followed by "cd /mnt"
2233[20:42:47] <urk> Just received an error that volume was not
unmounted cleanly, mountpoint is not empty. This error occurred
after entering "mount" /dev/sda1 /mnt
2234[20:44:10] <jmcnaught> urk: what does "ls /mnt"
say? Usually that directory is empty.
2237[20:45:48] <urk> jmcnaught> It shows the names of the two
linux firmware packages I was installing, and then it shows the rest
of the contents of the usb drive, but with a dark green background
behind them.
2239[20:48:27] <jmcnaught> urk: "cd" will get you out
of that directory back to root's home. "umount /mnt"
will unmount the drive (only one 'n' in umount command).
Then "ls -lh /mnt"
2240[20:48:55] *** Quits: alpernebbi (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2241[20:49:03] <greycat> also "df /mnt" will show what
file system it's part of at the moment
2242[20:49:18] <greycat> when it's unmounted it should
appear as part of the / file system
2243[20:49:24] <H-var> hello, I'm getting really choppy
performance when watching videos on youtube in 4k. It doesn't
happen on windows.
2244[20:49:52] <greycat> Firmware, drivers, etc.
2245[20:50:49] <H-var> is it because graphics card companies do
not open the source code for their drivers?
2248[20:51:13] <dpkg> Firmware is software to operate electronic
devices, usually contained in EPROM or flash memory. Some Linux
kernel drivers require firmware to be provided from userspace,
notably for <WiFi> devices. Most firmware files are not part
of a Debian release as they do not conform to the <DFSG>; some
are available via <contrib> and <non-free> packages, ask
me about <search>. See also <installer firmware>.
replaced-url
2273[20:56:24] <greycat> I see four instances of "1080"
on the supported device list for the nvidia 460.39 driver.
2274[20:56:24] <sney> I use firefox for some things and chromium
for other things. media performance might be marginally better in
chromium. try stuff, see what your results are
2275[20:56:57] <greycat> I also see four 1080s on the 418.113
supported devices list.
2276[20:56:59] <milkt> i had to install nonfree firmware to get
nvidia graphic card working with debian though
2277[20:57:21] <H-var> interesting
2278[20:57:35] <H-var> I guess the issues could be in the drivers
2281[20:58:07] <H-var> even though linux drivers are provided by
the nvidia corp, they might be inferior in quality compared to the
ones written for windows
2282[20:58:07] *** Quits: Nokaji (~Nokaji@replaced-ip) (Quit: "... when the freedom they wished for most was
freedom from responsibility then Athens ceased to be free and was
never free again.” ~ Edward Gibbon (1737-1794) - Decline and
Fall of the Roman Empire, 1909)
2283[20:58:11] <greycat> assuming of course that your
"nvidia 1080" is one of those 4 devices from the list
2284[20:58:17] <H-var> since less funds were spent on them
2285[20:58:47] <jmcnaught> urk: okay then you should be able to
mount it to /mnt if it is empty.
2286[20:59:00] <milkt> H-var: try nonfree driver in debian
unofficial repository
2287[20:59:11] <greycat> I'd try what the wiki says, first.
2288[20:59:21] <H-var> okay, I will try that in combination with
chromium
2303[21:05:13] <urk> I ran dpkg - firmware-name, and the
following errors were displayed: deconfiguration is not permitted
(--auto-deconfigure might help). And then the next line said errors
were encountered while processing.
2310[21:07:08] <greycat> "dpkg -i" expects a filename,
not a package name, so you would give it the pathname to the .deb
file that you downloaded or sneakernetted
2311[21:07:24] <greycat> "firmware-name" is not a sane
filename for a debian pacakge
2312[21:07:30] <urk> greycat> You talking to me?
2313[21:07:39] <greycat> Not any more. *plonk*
2314[21:08:13] <urk> greycat> I used the real file name, but
didn't want to type it on here because it is so long.
2316[21:08:29] <jmcnaught> urk: the command should be more like
"dpkg -i
/mnt/linux-image-5.10.0-0.bpo.3-amd64_5.10.13-1~bpo10+1_amd64.deb"
2317[21:08:51] <ratrace> isn't the recommendation to use
apt, even for local .deb files?
2318[21:09:22] <greycat> I'm so tired of trying to deduce
the context that I'm simply *assuming* they are sneakernetting
ethernet firmware.
2319[21:09:55] <urk> One other error message before the one on
deconfiguration: installing linux-image-5.10.0-0.bpo.3-amd64 would
break wireless-regdb, and then the deconfiguration message.
2320[21:10:06] <jmcnaught> I don't think it matters between
apt and dpkg -i for loose files if there are no dependencies, and
there would not be for this leaf package or the other
firmware-iwlwifi either
2321[21:10:23] <ratrace> I see
2322[21:10:38] <urk> jmcnaught> I Cd to the mount directory
before entering the dpkg command.
2323[21:11:15] <jmcnaught> urk: you became root with
"su" or "su -l"?
2324[21:11:28] *** Quits: mezzo (~mezzo@replaced-ip) (Quit: leaving)
2328[21:12:22] <milkt> urk: it is better to provide full command
and full error message
2329[21:13:02] <urk> milkt> Ok, I will display what is on the
screen at the command line in addition to the command.
2330[21:14:06] <greycat> when you're sneakernetting network
drivers/firmware it's understandable that you can't paste
from there to IRC, because airgap. but you should take extra care to
get the command in the right *form*.
2337[21:18:46] <urk> dpkg: error processing archive
linux-image-5.10.0-0.bpo.3-amd64_5.10.13-1~bpo10+1_amd64.deb
--install): installing linux-image-5.100-0.bpo.3-amd64 would break
wireless-regdb, and deconfiguration is not permitted
(--auto-deconfigure might help). Errors were encountered while
processin:
linu-image-5.10.0-0.bpo.3-amd64_5.10.13-1~bpo10+1_amd64.debxg
2338[21:18:46] <dpkg> urk: That isn't an error, post the
whole output to a pastebin (/msg dpkg pastebin).
2372[21:36:27] <ratrace> neilthereildeil: if you made that copy
from before to a temporary location, you just reverse the direction
to the new rootfs mount on the LV
2373[21:36:35] <ratrace> same thing just reverse direction
2374[21:37:02] <neilthereildeil> ratrace: that copy prolly had an
infinite loop since in only crearted /src and use up all the space
in the partition
2375[21:37:11] <neilthereildeil> what was that rsync command you
guys recommended?
2383[21:40:48] <neilthereildeil> FYI there is a very big sparse
file in my FS also
2384[21:41:24] <neilthereildeil> also, this is a GPT disk, but i
dont see the UUID for my new partition /dev/sda3 in
/dev/disk/by-uuid. is that a problem?
2385[21:41:24] <ratrace> -vaSHAXx to make it more memorable, -v
is optional. I'd also add --info=progress2 (instead of -v) so
you can see where it's at
2422[21:49:30] <neilthereildeil> its a pandemic haha
2423[21:49:39] <greycat> Why are you even *attempting* this?
2424[21:49:47] <neilthereildeil> yea this IS the backup[
2425[21:49:49] <greycat> Bored?
2426[21:49:56] <neilthereildeil> no, i dont wanna spend 2 weeks
deplloying again
2427[21:50:25] <ratrace> I did that a few times, migrated actual
live, in production server, btween zfs and btrfs using degraded
mirrors and alotta prayer to Great Old Ones
2429[21:50:39] <neilthereildeil> this is not in prod right now
2430[21:50:41] <ratrace> so it's doable.... but.... I had
backups....
2431[21:50:42] <neilthereildeil> i scheduled downtime
2432[21:50:47] <neilthereildeil> this IS the backup
2433[21:50:50] <neilthereildeil> worst case ill rebuild it
2434[21:50:59] <neilthereildeil> and spend 2 weeks
2435[21:51:09] <neilthereildeil> but ideally i can do it this way
and not spend 2 weeks
2436[21:51:12] <ratrace> well then... you can rsync a live
system. that -x will help you don't descend into dev,sys,proc
2437[21:51:43] <neilthereildeil> why isnt it better to boot off
the debian ISO and mount the src FS and run rsync from there?
2438[21:51:52] <neilthereildeil> rather than doing this on a
booted system
2439[21:51:54] <ratrace> turn off all the services that
aren't essential. sync(1) before first rsync run, sync again,
do another run, sync again, and if the second round showed changed
files, do a third one
2440[21:53:45] <ratrace> neilthereildeil: you can boot off debian
ISO but ... oh you want to reuse the rsync binary already on teh
disk. sure, I guess that could work. not sure if .so will load
properly... I suppose you could hax that too
2465[22:07:01] <lembron> can i "install" a package that
is installed already (as dependency) while there is an update
available but without installing the update as a simple
"apt-get install ..." would do?
2466[22:07:24] <urk> How do I stop "x" in Debian?
2467[22:08:13] *** Quits: shibboleth (~shibbolet@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2468[22:08:59] * ratrace blinks thrice
2469[22:09:15] <ratrace> lembron: can you rephrase that?
2470[22:09:19] <ratrace> urk: what's x?
2471[22:09:46] <milkt> X server?
2472[22:10:17] <milkt> lembron: do you mean you want to mark it
as manually installed?
2473[22:11:42] *** Quits: Grldfrdom (uid391113@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2476[22:12:22] <lembron> ratrace i have php-memcache installed,
what "used to" pull in php5.6-memcache, php7.0-memcache
php7.2-memcache and so on - now packaging has fixed this, and i can
"apt-get update && apt-get install php5.6-memcache
&& apt autoremove && apt-get dist-upgrade", but
i want the "actual upgrade" only to happen in the dist-upg
not in the first install (what technically could be a noop)
background:
2478[22:12:26] <urk> ratrace> Never mind, I figured it out.
Please disregard the post. I was trying to shut off the x window
server which is now xorg. Command is Ctrl, Alt F1
2479[22:12:36] <lembron> milkt that sounds about right yes
2492[22:18:23] *** Quits: Jerrynicki (~niklas@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2493[22:18:47] <lembron> 5.6-memcached will be kept now on
remove, so thats good -- but "it will install new packages that
autoremove also declares as no lnger needed" smells like some
derpines...
2494[22:19:04] *** Quits: platvoeten (~platvoete@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2507[22:21:45] *** Quits: Roedy (Roedy@replaced-ip) (Quit: See you IRL!)
2508[22:21:55] <urk> jmcnaught> ok, where is it? Is it in the
repos? I was just working on the desktop to see if I can fix the
panel problem so that I don't have to reinstall the panel with
every bootup.
2510[22:22:17] *** Quits: guerby (~guerby@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2511[22:22:29] <jmcnaught> urk: you will also need to install
this package:
replaced-url
2512[22:22:34] <lembron> and just for understanding maybe:
should/could i "remove" php-memcache now safely? - so is
the dependency information decoupled from the actual package
upgrade?
2770[22:46:49] <neilthereildeil> ratrace: hmm the VG doesnt show
up in /dev...
2771[22:46:58] <urk> jmcnaught> Do I need some quotes around
this wifi firmware you recommended? I have downloaded it, copied it
to memory stick, installed in the new machine, and remounted /mnt
2772[22:47:00] <neilthereildeil> i need to pass the path to the
dev VG to vgchange
2793[22:53:43] <urk> I keep getting error message indicating
volume wasn't unmounted cleanly when trying to do "mount
/dev/sda1 /mnt".
2794[22:53:51] <urk> Not sure why.
2795[22:54:04] <neilthereildeil> what should i be using instead
for rescue? preferably a self-respecting ISO with a recent kernel
that has rsycn and recent LVM support
2796[22:54:33] <jmcnaught> urk: have you been unmounting the
device properly before removing it?
2813[22:58:28] <urk> jmcnaught> No errors this time, but a
long list of missing firmware that is too long to post. I am going
to copy it to a text file, and paste it in the Debian pastebin.
2814[22:58:50] <jmcnaught> urk: I would worry about that after
you get connected to the network
2815[22:59:08] <jmcnaught> urk: as long as the firmware-iwlwifi
package was also installed you should be able to reboot and connect
to wifi
2817[23:01:18] <urk> status message indicates wifi networks
available, but they are not displaying in the wifi icon.
2818[23:01:22] <wr> sney, ratrace i installed nvidia-driver
package and it works, i now am on 800px but i seen max resolution
would be 1440x900px i guess, since this is a old laptop just in case
i need it... i will leave it like this, thanks for the help
2821[23:03:28] <urk> jmcnaught> Looks like some additional
firmware will be required in order to get wifi. There was a short
list of 6-7 things at bootup. How do I pull this up? dmesg?
2822[23:04:07] <urk> I rebooted again, and this time the wifi
connections came up.
2823[23:04:17] <urk> I am now entering the password for the wifi.
2824[23:04:51] *** Joins: mort (~mort96@replaced-ip)
2862[23:36:04] <urk> I am getting an error message when running
apt-get update, and wondering what is the best way to fix it. The
error message is here
replaced-url
2863[23:36:35] <urk> Error message seems to indicate I am running
from an unofficial repository. Should I change this to apt-secure,
and then set this to the insecure option?
2864[23:37:14] <sney> just remove the cdrom entry from
sources.list and run apt update
2865[23:37:25] <sney> you have a network connection now, you
don't need it.
2866[23:37:41] <sney> !buster sources.list
2867[23:37:41] <dpkg> A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for
"Buster" has the lines: "deb
replaced-url
2868[23:38:18] <urk> sney> Thanks
2869[23:38:58] <urk> What happened to Chromium? I don't see
it in the repos.
2870[23:39:36] <sney> chromium is in buster, you are probably
just missing something from your sources.list.
2871[23:39:46] <sney> look at the message from dpkg above, and
make *sure* that your sources.list matches.