People who Joins , Parts or Quits a chatroom
this is #debian
an IRC -Channel at freenode
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2021-06-01)
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4 [00:02:45] <outoftime> Unit193: can I use this managers
during netinstall?
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15 [00:07:01] <Pegasus_RPG> outoftime: no, (s)he's talking
about after you have the base system and a desktop environment
installed
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40 [00:14:11] <outoftime> Pegasus_RPG: I know. Just do not
wanted to be rude saying "I know better". I've been
using ubuntu for a long time and I spend some time to playing with
this network managers, especially when systemd arrived.
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54 [00:21:49] <Unit193> Ah, alrighty then. "Thanks, though
I'm well aware." Works for me. :)
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65 [00:27:30] <alexbodn> good night friends
66 [00:27:31] <Pegasus_RPG> petn-randall, SerajewelKS: Thanks
again for your help. The system boot just fine now.
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125 [01:05:54] <ws2k3> how can i do a watch on a wc -l on cat? i
wannt count the messages per second from cat
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140 [01:17:52] <Antares_>
replaced-url
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152 [01:29:36] <Wally> Is there a way to invoke the command line
in the debian installer?
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176 [01:40:56] <mason> Wally: Go to a virtual console.
177 [01:41:03] <Wally> yeah I found it.
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179 [01:41:24] <Wally> I'm trying to recover a MacBook Pro
however I just realised that Debian probably isn't familiar
with APFS so yeah abandoned that idea.
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184 [01:44:04] <puxavida> Wally, command-r at boot for recovery
or press t for target disk mode and connect to another mac - it will
look like an external hard drive to work on, etc.
185 [01:44:19] <Wally> puxavida yeah I'm aware.. This
machine just hard crashes whenever I do that.
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187 [01:44:30] <Wally> also this is a current gen rMBP..
188 [01:44:48] <puxavida> run diags
189 [01:44:54] <Wally> Diags come back with no issues.
190 [01:44:59] <Wally> Gunna have to wait for the vendor to come
have a look
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221 [02:05:23] <jim> hi... I'm trying to use a generator
script that came with taskwarrior's taskd, that is supposed to
generate self-signed certs... there's a vars file that's
involved somehow, whose current values refer to some organization in
sweden,,, any idea how I can find out more?
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224 [02:05:48] <Wally> puxavida thanks for your help, I think I
have a solution of sorts.
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226 [02:05:57] <Wally> Booted to Single User Mode and doing a cp
-r
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243 [02:18:47] <factor> Can someone tell me what package
make-kpkg is in?
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251 [02:24:31] <jim> used to be in kernel-package
252 [02:25:12] <factor>
replaced-url
253 [02:25:17] <factor> Looks like it was taken out
254 [02:25:31] <factor> trying to figure out how to compile all
over again now.
255 [02:25:46] <jim> I think they stopped using that script in
favor of something else, and there's a doc called the kernel
handbook for how to do it now
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258 [02:26:40] <factor> Looks like make deb-pkg
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260 [02:27:14] <factor> See how that works
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262 [02:30:13] <factor> The wating begings. Had to reinstall due
to bios of this mb not booting my old linux sata drive
263 [02:30:37] <factor> reinstall worked , but looks like lots of
changes took place to do so.
264 [02:31:00] <factor> Whew! back to normal now though
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283 [02:42:22] <factor> Can I append a name to kernel with
deb-pkg?
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297 [02:54:51] <factor> Found it.
298 [02:55:28] <factor> make deb-pkg LOCALVERSION=-factor
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328 [03:12:58] *** Foxhoundz is now known as BenderRodriguez
329 [03:13:39] <COOurb> I have big problem: accidentally my user
was removed from all groups, except one. I already added it to some
I remembered, but now there is a problem with fonts, encoding and
system language
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336 [03:20:03] <COOurb> fixed. ALNG was dropped
337 [03:20:05] <COOurb> LANG*
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373 [03:53:20] <karlpinc> COOurb: Have a look at
/usr/share/doc/base-passwd/users-and-groups.txt.gz to remind you
what groups you might want to be in.
374 [03:54:04] <COOurb> hm, ok
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410 [04:33:28] <dka> I know it is off topic. But I am looking to
install a network server for our files locally. My network
scan/printer wants a samba file system. But as a Linux user I would
choose NFS. I wonder how windows can do with NFS, what do you guys
think?
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416 [04:38:15] <outoftime> !audio
417 [04:38:15] <dpkg> Ask me about <alsa>, <alsa
checklist>. See also <default alsa>, <pulseaudio>.
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420 [04:42:56] <COOurb> dka: what printer model is?
421 [04:43:25] <dka> Hp MFP M281fwd
422 [04:43:49] <Butterfly^> Hp MFP M281fdw you mean ?
423 [04:44:01] <dka> yes
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425 [04:44:27] <Butterfly^> HP model numbers are getting out of
control :)
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427 [04:45:06] <Butterfly^> MultiFunction Laser Printer
428 [04:45:11] <Butterfly^> it should've been MFLP
429 [04:45:11] <COOurb> dka: it supports FTP
430 [04:45:33] <Butterfly^> oh nvm, that's another thing :)
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434 [04:47:43] <dka> I am quite surprise I cant use ldap
435 [04:47:50] <dka> for the printer contacts
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440 [05:00:31] <SerajewelKS> FWIW you can't really share a
printer over NFS
441 [05:00:36] <APCodes> how can I install a newer version of
python & pip?
442 [05:00:38] <SerajewelKS> you could use CUPS or samba
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448 [05:07:57] <APCodes> maybe I'm just running into a
strange situation because I'm running jessie in a docker
container for an archived version of httpd
449 [05:08:14] <APCodes> when I apt update; apt install python I
don't get the latest version of python
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452 [05:09:42] <APCodes> hmm...
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457 [05:12:43] <n4dir> the latest version of python or the latest
version available in the jessie repository ?
458 [05:14:21] <APCodes> I was expecting to see the latest (or
more recent) version of python & pip installed when I did
"apt install python"
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460 [05:14:35] <APCodes> like 2.7.14 or 2.7.15
461 [05:14:41] <APCodes> but I got 2.7.9
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463 [05:14:55] <APCodes> maybe I need to update the repository
before I install
464 [05:15:19] <n4dir> Just checked. Yes, that seems to be the
version you get in jessie:
replaced-url
465 [05:15:19] <APCodes> apologies if this is obvious I'm
not to familiar with debian packaging
466 [05:15:48] <n4dir> Ah. Well: jessie is old-stable, which is
pretty old now. So what you get is that version for python
467 [05:15:53] <APCodes> n4dir: can I do something to get a newer
version via aptitude?
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469 [05:16:08] <APCodes> n4dir: I see
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471 [05:16:26] <n4dir> There are jessie-backports too, but there
is no newer python version available either (pretty tired: as far i
can see)
472 [05:16:57] <n4dir> there is a package called
"virtualenv" or such. Have a look if that helps (i guess
you know it already).
473 [05:17:03] *** Quits: HerrMumba (~mumba@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving.)
474 [05:17:43] <n4dir> I don't know of other methods to get
a newer version of python into debian jessie/old-stable, but perhaps
it is possible (that is: ask again)
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477 [05:18:35] <APCodes> there are other ways sans aptitude just
a bit more cumbersome
478 [05:18:53] <n4dir> No, that is not the problem (as far i can
tell)
479 [05:19:15] <n4dir> Upgrading to stable is not an option?
480 [05:19:29] <n4dir> due to "archived version of
httpd" ?
481 [05:19:40] <APCodes> python publishes an image with jessie
that installs python from tarballs (presumably compiles them or
something)
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483 [05:19:56] <APCodes> yes the problem is I think I'd have
a harder time installing an old version of httpd
484 [05:20:14] <n4dir> never done it, i don't know much
about it, but i hear about virtualenv now and then. Look at that
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486 [05:20:33] <APCodes> k thanks
487 [05:20:43] <APCodes> appreciate the info
488 [05:21:06] <n4dir> i did the best i could. But really ask
again. to be sure.
489 [05:21:23] <n4dir> last not least: good luck :-)
490 [05:22:06] <APCodes> I will thanks
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492 [05:22:46] <buu> How do I ask a debian box doing routing what
ips it's currently talking to?
493 [05:22:51] <buu> I guess contrack?
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503 [05:27:47] <awal1> I use
replaced-url
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505 [05:28:14] <outoftime> Who uses `snapd`?
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507 [05:30:52] <awal1> I basically use " pactl
set-sink-volume @DEFAULT_SINK@ +2% " for increase and "
pactl set-sink-volume @DEFAULT_SINK@ -2% " for decrease. so i
want get notified . I use 'dunst' for notifications.
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511 [05:31:27] <dka> COOurb, it does not supports FTP
512 [05:32:05] <dka> See the HP MFP M281fdw configuration page :
replaced-url
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601 [06:20:34] <COOurb> dka: as i saw - it supports
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608 [06:29:03] <COOurb>
replaced-url
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647 [07:05:15] <darxmurf> I wondering if I should lvmEncrypt the
storage on my new backup server
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654 [07:14:58] <randy408> stable doesn't come with npm? im
confused
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726 [08:32:14] <outoftime> How to change DE to gnome on stretch?
`# apt install gnome` enough?
727 [08:33:27] <annadane> it depends on which gnome package you
want (full install, not so many components, etc) and then you can
probably just select it in your display manager
728 [08:33:36] <Haohmaru> if you currently have one, you should
also have a login (desktop?) manager like lightdm, slim, etc.. those
should enable you to switch the DE
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731 [08:37:09] <annadane> i'm pretty sure gdm is a
dependency of gnome so you'd get at least one DM
732 [08:37:21] <annadane> well no, probably the more minimal
metapackages wouldn't have that
733 [08:37:27] <annadane> though i'm not sure how gnome
works
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741 [08:41:30] <outoftime> Yes, `gdm3` is dependency for `gnome`
package.
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746 [08:45:12] <outoftime> I've runned XFCE this night and I
feel pain in my eyes, too contrast view. Also too bright, even with
minimal brightness of display. That is why I'm looking for
different DE that will not harm my eyes so much.
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748 [08:45:47] <nielsk> why not just use a different theme?
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750 [08:46:07] <hipodilski> hi i am experiencing something very
odd my home icon on gnome desktop doesn't launch nautilus any
idea why this could be or how to debug?
751 [08:46:07] <Butterfly^> install redshift outoftime
752 [08:46:27] <Butterfly^> redshift filters the blue a bit,
making it more red (thus the name), which is easier on the eyes,
perfect for night times
753 [08:46:39] <Butterfly^> it can automatically change colors
depending on time of day
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757 [08:47:09] <Butterfly^> also, a different theme as nielsk
said
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849 [09:53:39] <jkavalik> hello here, I have a question about apt
- when I do "apt install php" it tries to install apache2,
looking at dependencies I see that php is a metapackage depending on
php7.2 and php7.2 shows dependencies as "libapache2-mod-php7.2
| php7.2-fpm | php7.2-cgi, php7.2-common" - is there some way
to let it ask which of the mod_php|fpm|cgi should it install if
unmet? or do I have to run "apt install php-fpm php"
(which means searching for the available options b
850 [09:53:39] <jkavalik> eforehand)?
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862 [09:55:55] <likcoras> I'd like to know the answer to
that question as well. So far, I've just been examining the
packages to be installed manually (in aptitude) and checking that I
do indeed want to install certain packages instead of their
alternatives, but I still make some mistakes and would rather have a
more complete solution.
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905 [10:24:09] <fling> How to tell apt-cacher-ng to retry on 403
and 50x?
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933 [10:32:35] <ujjain> How can I add add-apt-repository with deb
[allow-insecure=yes]?
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936 [10:35:01] <petn-randall> ujjain: Why would you want that?
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940 [10:40:35] <jelly> ujjain: just add it manually?
941 [10:41:08] <ujjain> because I lost the key of my own packages
in /opt/ujjainpackages
942 [10:41:13] <ujjain> and I want things to work again
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945 [10:43:29] <rgr> exit
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981 [11:03:42] <petn-randall> If I have two servers binding to
the same port, one binding to a specific IP address, and the other
binding to 0.0.0.0, is the behaviour defined? I'm trying to
debug an issue with iodine/unbound, where the logging is
unfortunately limited.
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984 [11:04:51] <Fox> petn-randall: define "behaviour"
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988 [11:06:24] <petn-randall> Fox: Say I have the public IP
address 1.2.3.4, and iodine is bound to 1.2.3.4:53, and unbound to
0.0.0.0:53. Do requests to 1.2.3.4:53 always go to iodine, or is it
maybe dependent on other things, like which service started first.
989 [11:06:28] <petn-randall> ?
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1037 [11:13:36] <Fox> tricky
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1057 [11:15:52] <ujjain> how to fix a NO_PUBKEY error for my own
repo? I dpont want to verify public key
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1070 [11:17:23] <ujjain> deb [ allow-insecure=yes ] ..
doesn't work
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1077 [11:17:52] <ujjain> apt-get --allow-unauthenticated update
does work
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1084 [11:18:35] <ujjain> I lost the key of the deb files
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1101 [11:33:39] <jim> ujjaintry installing debian-archive-keyring
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1103 [11:34:10] <jim> err you probably got that... b8ut,
1104 [11:34:18] <jim> ujjain try installing debian-archive-keyring
1105 [11:35:28] <ujjain> it's already installed, but we
self-signed the packages many years ago
1106 [11:35:30] <petn-randall> jim: They lost the key to their
private repo. That key won't be in debian-archive-keyring.
1107 [11:35:58] <jim> oh ok
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1113 [11:37:51] <jim> did you say 'we'? maybe one of the
others have the key
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1123 [11:43:32] <ujjain> Yeah, I asked, will keep asking.
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1129 [11:45:25] <ujjain> Did anybody find my key?
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1133 [11:47:23] <furrymcgee> private or public?
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1137 [11:48:44] <ujjain> private, an ex-colleague of mine probably
made and used it 5 years ago
1138 [11:49:07] <anzipex> I'm trying to install several
deb-packages like : dpkg -i name1.deb && dpkg -i name2.deb
&& dpkg -i name3.deb
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1140 [11:49:30] <anzipex> How to restore all files again if
name3.deb fails?
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1142 [11:50:15] <anzipex> I mean, i don't need installed
name1.deb and name2.deb, i want to restore state before installing
first package
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1162 [12:00:45] <ksk> ,packages systemd
1163 [12:01:15] <k_sze[work]> I'm getting "manpath:
can't set the locale; make sure $LC_* and $LANG are
correct" when I SSH from my Ubuntu desktop into my Debian
server, but I don't get that message if I SSH from e.g. my Mac
into the same Debian server. What am I supposed to fix?
1164 [12:01:25] <petn-randall> anzipex: dpkg -P name1.deb
&& dpkg -P name2.deb
1165 [12:01:27] <Fox> petn-randall: after a few tests I could see
that it totaly depends on who started first and then who got the
socket first
1166 [12:01:42] <petn-randall> Fox: Ouch.
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1168 [12:02:07] <Fox> if you start iodine first it's ok
1169 [12:02:19] <Fox> but if you restart it it's not ok
anymore :/
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1172 [12:03:21] <petn-randall> Fox: Yeah, that's what I
suspected. I'll have to fix up the config then to not bind on
the wildcard interface.
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1178 [12:08:39] <anzipex> petn-randall, well -P option is actually
removes everything. If there were old versions of this deb-packages
installed, it turns out that they will be deleted too
1179 [12:09:23] <petn-randall> anzipex: then use -r instead.
1180 [12:09:33] <Fox> petn-randall: if you can change
unbound's listening port without impact then you're done,
switch it to another port and use -b when starting iodined
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1186 [12:15:41] <anzipex> petn-randall, hm.. okay, i'll try
it, thanks
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1192 [12:19:11] <petn-randall> anzipex: It won't be
byte-for-byte identical, but it will be close. If you need it
exactly identical, I'd say "restore from backups". :)
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1199 [12:26:21] <alwyn> So I have a script that uses an
environment variable to load a library from. sudo is giving some
strange behaviour with this. The user that runs the script with sudo
has the variable in his env. Running the script with sudo, it does
not load the library. OK, I set SETENV in the sudoers file and use
sudo -E, *still* no juice. Changing the sudoers to include
'Defaults env_keep += "MYVAR"' *does* work.
1200 [12:26:29] <alwyn> But why would sudo -E not work?
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1206 [12:34:57] <petn-randall> alwyn: SETENV only changes the
default, it's like an implicit -E.
1207 [12:35:26] <petn-randall> alwyn: 'man 5 sudoers'
has this documented.
1208 [12:37:18] <petn-randall> alwyn: env_keep has a whitelist of
env vars to keep, so what you describe is expected behaviour.
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1210 [12:37:54] <alwyn> Without SETENV doing -E is not allowed,
though? I'm confused
1211 [12:37:58] <alwyn> env_keep I believe I understand now
1212 [12:39:45] <petn-randall> alwyn: That's not what the
documentation says. SETENV is not the security policy, it just
defines the default.
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1214 [12:41:03] <alwyn> I see.
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1217 [12:44:49] <linuxthefish> hey, what would be the best way to
allow each user to have their own directory on a web server?
currently all users can see /var/replaced-url
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1220 [12:49:02] <petn-randall> linuxthefish: Really depends on
your use case. Why does /var/replaced-url
1221 [12:49:36] <linuxthefish> I even did "chown root:replaced-url
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1223 [12:50:04] <linuxthefish> petn-randall because I have family
photos there and some personal stuff, but nothing that would be a
massive securty risk if my friend could access it
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1227 [12:54:07] <linuxthefish> ah I sorted it, the directory I
assigned to this user for him to upload his files was inside of
/var/replaced-url
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1238 [12:57:32] <linuxthefish> so /var/replaced-url
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1240 [12:57:40] <linuxthefish> and there is a symblink from his
home directory
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1242 [12:57:47] <petn-randall> linuxthefish: /var/replaced-url
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1261 [13:07:56] <linuxthefish> yeah I did afterwards also!
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1289 [13:23:23] <davorin> ehlo (o;
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1293 [13:24:32] <davorin> someone has an idea how to get the
desktop menubar at the top in xfce?
1294 [13:24:50] <davorin> during install i accidentally
didn't set it up with defaults..so all was empty..
1295 [13:24:55] <papemco> davorin, use panel settings
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1297 [13:25:05] <davorin> well yes..tried that...
1298 [13:25:16] <davorin> can have vertical, horizontal and
desktop bar
1299 [13:25:42] <papemco> which one do you want?
1300 [13:25:51] <papemco> vertical or horizontal?
1301 [13:26:03] <davorin> like macos style...menu bar at the top
in the desktop
1302 [13:26:18] <davorin> think there is a logo first then
"applications"
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1304 [13:26:25] <davorin> on the right side clock, date and so on
1305 [13:27:01] <papemco> then do exactly that in the panel
settings
1306 [13:27:17] <papemco> it will workout just fine
1307 [13:27:19] <davorin> mode deskbar it is?
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1351 [13:54:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1276
1352 [13:54:26] <sine0> how hard it is to migrate an install of
debian onto another host. I want to run a debian setup in a vm and
then move it to a machine when i get it. possible ?
1353 [13:55:10] <papemco> is it possible with other distros?
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1355 [13:55:32] <RoyK> sine0: depends how much you have running
1356 [13:56:14] <RoyK> sine0: I just did the same thing at home -
not really a planned thing - the root disk died and I replaced it
with a mirror of SSDs and then recovered the config from the old
drive
1357 [13:56:26] <RoyK> sine0: what do you have running on this
thing?
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1359 [13:57:13] <RoyK> as for future things like that - better use
ansible or chef or puppet or whatever suits you to do the config,
and then you can just start from scratch and roll out a new config
on a new vm or new hardware or whatever
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1364 [14:00:38] <Alver> Hello. Is there a way to configure
network-manager (1.12.4-1, sid amd64) to set a default route over a
VPN? The UI allows me to set specific routes, but not a default one,
it seems.
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1371 [14:03:09] <davorin> hmm..gives me no desktop menu at all
with full width..only small panels
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1376 [14:03:39] <davorin> installed xfce4-topmenu-plugin but still
no menu after xfce restart
1377 [14:04:35] <Haohmaru> davorin what's the issue?
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1383 [14:05:49] <davorin> when first starting up debian with xfce4
it asked me for defaults settings for panels...
1384 [14:06:02] <davorin> and i accidentally declined it..
1385 [14:06:08] <davorin> so no desktop menu now (o;
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1387 [14:06:23] <davorin> panel at the bottom is no issue to
recreate
1388 [14:06:28] <Haohmaru> so you got no buttons, clocks, etc..?
1389 [14:06:39] <davorin> exactly...
1390 [14:07:01] <Haohmaru> you can go thru its settings dialog..
1391 [14:07:11] <davorin> panel settings?
1392 [14:07:16] <Haohmaru> yeah-ish
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1397 [14:07:45] <Haohmaru> iirc you can make more than one panels
with different things on them in different locations of the screen,
or just one..
1398 [14:08:18] <davorin> it shows me in the xfce settings editor
that desktop menu is empty
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1400 [14:08:29] <Haohmaru> oops
1401 [14:08:54] <davorin> so i guess there should be some
/usr/share/blah in it (o;
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1403 [14:09:01] <Haohmaru> i don't know, i like the
xfce4-panel but i use an lxpanel just for the "Start"
button
1404 [14:09:40] <davorin> hmm...rm -rf .config/xfce4 and restart
xfce?
1405 [14:10:02] <Haohmaru> maybe only erase the panel-related
configs
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1407 [14:10:16] <Haohmaru> or make a backup before erasing the
stuff
1408 [14:10:24] <davorin> right (o;
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1411 [14:13:32] <Haohmaru> i also like the taskbar from tint2 x_x
1412 [14:14:16] <Haohmaru> my perfect panel consist of an ugly
combination of xfce4-panel, lxpanel, and tint2
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1418 [14:17:58] <sine0> RoyK: I need to check out puppet thing. it
wont be any major, im on the road and im using windows on my laptop
but i want to transition to debian but i need to do it gradually as
i have my workflow, i tried with another ssd drive and swapped it
out but my work speed dropped as i didnt know how to do everything
im used to doing. i wanted to work it out in parrallel
1419 [14:18:23] <sine0> and then just make the jump
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1422 [14:19:00] <diogenes_> and your question is?
1423 [14:19:34] <sine0> I asked it earlier
1424 [14:19:35] <nyov> sine0: depends on what VM hypervisor you
choose
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1426 [14:19:54] <sine0> how hard is it to move a system from a vm
to the main os of a machine
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1428 [14:20:00] <nyov> with qemu using a RAW disk, it should be
relatively easy to then put it on a physical disk
1429 [14:20:01] <sine0> debian that is
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1431 [14:20:14] <nyov> raw image, even
1432 [14:20:15] <sine0> can i just copy it over, so to speak
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1436 [14:20:34] <davorin> got it now..
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1438 [14:20:43] <davorin> had to delete practically all .something
dirs (o;
1439 [14:21:43] <blackflow> sine0: technically yes, minding to
correct relevant configs, eg. fstab, crypttab devices, network
interface names, ...
1440 [14:22:59] <n4dir> there really isn't much more than
those ( or a) few files to edit.
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1443 [14:24:47] <nyov> well, except the physical device firmware,
if any
1444 [14:24:51] <sine0> blackflow: ok.
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1448 [14:27:20] <RoyK> sine0: better try ansible - I prefer that -
no agent needed - everything running over ssh
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1467 [14:40:30] <sine0> RoyK: what do you mean over ssh
1468 [14:40:40] <sine0> i know what ssh is, but what is 'over
ssh'
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1471 [14:41:26] <sine0> i will look it up
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1476 [14:44:03] <n4dir> something like: using ssh as the protocol
to access a remote machine. sftp, rsync sshfs, git etc use ssh for
what they do (ansible too, it seems, but i don't now it). sine0
1477 [14:45:06] <greycat> git *can* use ssh, but it can also use
other transport layers
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1479 [14:46:10] <n4dir> if you use rsync local to local it
probably doesn't use ssh too ?
1480 [14:46:20] <greycat> correct
1481 [14:47:33] <n4dir> i was worried more that i put the
"using ssh as the *protocol*" part was wrong. Quick look
at man rsync, but it also just says: "over ssh". So i
tried to put it in my words.
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1483 [14:48:11] <greycat> rsync between hosts *usually* uses ssh
these days. Originally it used rsh/remsh, for which ssh was designed
as a drop-in replacement. Warts and all.
1484 [14:48:31] <greycat> rsync also has its own special protocol
and can be run as a daemon/service, but almost nobody uses that
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1509 [15:07:24] <domovoy> hi
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1526 [15:15:07] <outoftime> domovoy: !ask
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1528 [15:16:11] <domovoy> i know this is not purely a debian
question, but still, if i could get your advice:
cdist/salt/ansible/rex, which one, why?
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1532 [15:21:38] <bites> domovoy: i find ansible very easy to use.
and you don't need to install anything on the client other than
setting up ssh, which is an advantage over salt. i don't have
an opinion on cdist or rex.
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1534 [15:26:24] <domovoy> bites> "you don't need to
install anything on the client other than setting up ssh" you
mean it can _push_ to the configured host, without the need of a
so-called _agent_? isn't salt able to do that using salt-ssh?
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1536 [15:27:33] <outoftime> domovoy: IMHO, ansible - my choice,
but I would not recommend to use it if you can manage system by
hands. I suppose, same is true for other options. And yes, I love
ansible because of docker integration.
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1541 [15:28:16] <bites> domovoy: maybe. i've never used salt
much.
1542 [15:30:48] <domovoy> outoftime> i manage 4 servers right
now, but just starting, and imho that much is already enough to
justify setting up config management (if only to satisfy my lazyness
of typing the same commands 4 times ;) )
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1546 [15:33:06] <tw> I'd say 3-4 physical nodes is enough to
justify it. As soon as you start deploying VMs or containers on
them, it pays dividends quickly.
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1550 [15:34:52] <nyov> they're all lacking :P
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1555 [15:37:17] <nyov> I'm trying to upgrade a postgis pg
database cluster. unlike postgres itself, postgis conflicts between
9.4 and 9.6 releases :/
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1560 [15:37:48] <nyov> Does anyone know if i can remove the 9.4
postgis without removing the database extension? so that
pg_upgradecluster can still work?
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1569 [15:46:02] <jolt> nyov: The only way to know is probably to
take a backup and try
1570 [15:46:43] <tw> I'm pretty sure the answer is
"no" because the extension defines custom objects that are
stored.
1571 [15:47:19] <nyov> right
1572 [15:47:40] <nyov> I hoped if I do 'remove' over
'purge', i might get lucky. But probably not
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1574 [15:48:08] <outoftime> domovoy: if your system contains only
4 servers and most of the commands are similar you can use
`fabtools` or something similar.
1575 [15:48:30] <tw> The conflict sounds like a bug to me. The
extended software is intentionally slotted so the package system
should handle it.
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1577 [15:50:28] <outoftime> domovoy: ansible is heavy, it is
awesome, but it is still heavy. And all that huge stuff require
management. You will not gain profit using ansible on small system.
1578 [15:50:45] <domovoy> outoftime> right now i'm using a
homemade script, but i just started a small business, so my guess is
i'll quickly need such a tool, and i don't want to learn a
new one in a few months because the one i chose didn't scale...
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1580 [15:51:32] <nyov> and wow. sometimes those dependencies are
way too strict. why does postgis2.3 pull in mesa, libdrm, xine and
vdpau? %) ...because sfcgal hard depends on openscenegraph which
depends on libav* cruft and libgl! what the actual...
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1583 [15:52:32] <domovoy> does ansible come with a gui? it seems
saltstack only provide one with the enterprise edition (which is way
too expensive)
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1586 [15:54:21] <nyov> if you're looking for a GUI, it
doesn't scale. xD
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1589 [15:55:38] <outoftime> domovoy: I do not know what can be
bigger and cover more cases than ansible. Just like I sad, ansible
is the best in conjunction with docker. My friend made web interface
on angular2 for ansible. It allows additing configs and turning
machines on\off, also provides realtime state management as well as
reading logs and more.
1590 [15:56:12] <domovoy> outoftime> looks good to me
1591 [15:56:21] <outoftime> domovoy: I suppose it was closed
source, but still, it is possible
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1594 [15:57:02] <domovoy> outoftime> _what_ was closed source?
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1601 [16:02:21] <outoftime> domovoy: you will not find it's
code in the internet.
1602 [16:03:28] <domovoy> outoftime> ho, your friend's ui.
sorry, i got lost
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1636 [16:17:40] <nyov> I ♡ BACKPORTS. I was just about to
repackage that postgis lib... but lucky me I noticed this dependency
uglyness was fixed in a bpo version!
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1638 [16:18:33] <nyov> now i just have to backup some postgis .so
files and drop them back into place after the old package is purged.
smooth sailing
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1652 [16:26:44] <outoftime> Can I adjust brightness lower then it
is allowed by default on stretch/xfce?
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1710 [16:44:40] <sheoul1988_> cc
1711 [16:44:49] <sheoul1988_> hoow r u all
1712 [16:45:29] <outoftime> sheoul1988_: !ask
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1715 [16:46:02] <nyov> it's: ask!
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1717 [16:46:50] <outoftime> nyov: will it work from behind?
1718 [16:46:56] <outoftime> nyov: !ask
1719 [16:46:57] <nyov> lol
1720 [16:47:00] <outoftime> nyov: ask!
1721 [16:47:21] <greycat> I don't think nyov is a bot.
1722 [16:47:22] <nyov> outoftime: how r u?
1723 [16:47:45] <bites> nyov: botsnack
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1727 [16:49:17] <outoftime> Can I adjust brightness lower then it
is allowed by default on stretch/xfce?
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1730 [16:50:12] <greycat> outoftime:
replaced-url
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1735 [16:53:20] <nyov> it's a bad Q, you should rephrase it.
what is "allowed by default" and by whom?
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1739 [16:54:28] <greycat> "I'm typing ___ and the man
page says the value is only permitted to be in the range __ to
__" "I'm clicking the graphical ___ tool and
there's a {dial|lever|slider|text entry field} and when I do
____ it says ____"
1740 [16:55:34] <greycat> Give SOME kind of detail that tells us
what's happening and what you've already tried and what
the results are. Don't just dumbly press the up arrow and the
enter key.
1741 [16:55:51] <nemo> outoftime: I'd guess btw tha specific
questions like that should be maybe in the XFCE channel
1742 [16:56:05] <nemo> outoftime: also, you might want to look
into using a tool other than the gui interface to adjust brightness
1743 [16:56:12] <greycat> And yes, if nobody here knows the
answer, definitely seek a more specialized channel.
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1745 [16:56:28] <nemo> outoftime: xrandr for example
1746 [16:57:11] <nemo> outoftime:
replaced-url
1747 [16:57:28] <nemo> just, you know, be prepared to be typing
blind in X if you enter "0" 😉
1748 [16:57:37] <nemo> which is probably sort of stuff XFCE is
trying to protect you from
1749 [16:57:46] *** Joins: rgr (~user@replaced-ip )
1750 [16:58:14] *** Joins: mtn (~mtn@replaced-ip )
1751 [16:58:58] <nemo> outoftime: for example, in this shaded room
on my monitor, xrandr --output LVDS --brightness 0.2 was already
barely readable
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1757 [17:04:40] <nemo> BTW, does anyone out there know of a fairly
reliable guide on migrating from Ubuntu 14.04 to *any* debian?
1758 [17:04:52] *** Joins: Ericounet (~Eric@replaced-ip )
1759 [17:04:58] <greycat> 1) install debian
1760 [17:05:06] <nemo> my last experiment ended disastrously, but
I was thinking I maybe tried too big a jump for my dangled net of
packages
1761 [17:05:21] <nemo> greycat: I was hoping to do it live on a
dev server
1762 [17:05:31] *** Joins: blitzed (~blitzed@replaced-ip )
1763 [17:05:34] <nemo> greycat: if it's not something one
could reasonably hope to do, I'll just make a new debian image
and migrate the data
1764 [17:05:42] <nemo> it's just more of a hassle
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1775 [17:11:59] <BCMM> nemo: what exactly do you need to migrate?
i'd just make a list of packages you use, install debian, bring
over the old home directory, and install necessary packages
1776 [17:12:54] <nemo> BCMM: yeah, I guess main issue was that I
had not split up the partitions on the dev server instance. I might
want to try doing that first. Resize down the main partition, move
/home and /opt
1777 [17:12:56] *** Joins: s8548a (~s8548a@replaced-ip )
1778 [17:13:15] <greycat> If it's not LVM, a full reinstall
may be good.
1779 [17:13:25] <BCMM> oh right, you want to do it without moving
stuff to an external drive?
1780 [17:13:27] <nemo> BCMM: I was mostly hoping I could just do
it remotely over ssh without having to involve vmware's
management interface which I... don't have access to
unfortunately
1781 [17:13:34] *** Joins: troys (~troys@replaced-ip )
1782 [17:13:47] <greycat> v.. m... ware... is involved...
somehow...
1783 [17:13:50] <nemo> BCMM: I have 4 VMS they've given me
access to - 3 are running ubuntu 14.04, one is windows 7
1784 [17:13:53] *** Quits: chele (~chele@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
1785 [17:14:00] <BCMM> nemo: oh lol, fun. i mean technically you
could, but you'd be one mistake away from being totally lockd
out
1786 [17:14:08] <nemo> BCMM: yeaaaah. that's the concern 😉
1787 [17:14:27] <BCMM> i mean, if your only way in to the machine
is the operating system, and you wanna replace the operating
system...
1788 [17:14:33] <BCMM> you get the idea. there's no safe
answer here.
1789 [17:14:54] <nemo> BCMM: I did a little trial run on my
laptop, and after many many many forced package fixes I tentatively
rebooted
1790 [17:15:01] *** Joins: mn3m (~mn3m@replaced-ip )
1791 [17:15:03] <nemo> BCMM: aaaand hit a kernel panic
1792 [17:15:09] <nemo> so screwit, wiped and reinstalled
1793 [17:15:17] <nemo> fortunately on my laptop /home is on a
totally separate drive for various reasons ☺
1794 [17:15:20] <nemo> this being one of them
1795 [17:15:28] <BCMM> i mean there's really not a way to
convert an ubuntu install in to a plain debian install, if
that's what you're asking
1796 [17:15:45] <nemo> BCMM: was just hoping someone out there
might have tried this and noted down the various pitfalls
1797 [17:15:54] *** Quits: rasb (~rasb@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
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1799 [17:16:15] *** Quits: os_ (~os_@replaced-ip ) (Changing host)
1800 [17:16:15] *** Joins: os_ (~os_@replaced-ip )
1801 [17:16:25] <BCMM> if you had some fallback way of accessing
the server, i'd suggest something like making a chroot with
debootstrap and trying to swap that with the rootfs, but to be
honest the odds of getting the bootloader working correctly on the
first try don't seem great
1802 [17:16:40] <nemo> hehe
1803 [17:16:54] <nemo> that's an interesting idea
1804 [17:16:58] <nemo> entire shadow filesystem. hm
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1806 [17:17:24] <nemo> BCMM: I have enough space to literally
write a new isntall image to whatever, like a loop mount
1807 [17:17:56] *** Joins: conta1 (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip )
1808 [17:18:11] <nemo> BCMM: my current gentoo server at home
started its life as mandrake a decade ago, which I replaced without
reboot - but gotta say linux was a lot less convoluted then
1809 [17:18:31] *** Quits: deemand (uid322998@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
1810 [17:18:35] <BCMM> nemo: actually if you shrunk down your
root, and then use a different partition as the new root, you could
probably do this pretty cleanly
1811 [17:18:52] <greycat> Yeah, I think the only *supported* way
to do this would be debootstrap into a new file system, then get
that to boot, then optionally make that boot by default.
1812 [17:18:59] <BCMM> nemo: debootstrap *does* provide a way to
install debian from an existing linux environment after all
1813 [17:19:22] <nemo> cool thing about that approach I guess is
that if I terribly broke something, it'd just be a dualboot
with one non-functioning obot
1814 [17:19:31] <nemo> I could do it at a day when a vmware admin
was in the office
1815 [17:19:34] <nemo> and ask for console access ☺
1816 [17:19:37] <greycat> But if it's not already configured
with separate /home then I would seriously consider a clean install.
1817 [17:20:02] *** Quits: rgr (~user@replaced-ip ) (Quit: #)
1818 [17:20:06] *** Quits: colttt (~quassel@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1819 [17:20:13] <BCMM> how is *that* the big deal? why can't
nemo just copy /home/ over once debian is booting correctly?
1820 [17:20:19] *** Joins: wonderer (~quakeroat@replaced-ip )
1821 [17:20:39] <nemo> BCMM: that'd probably be fine so long
as I made sure to populate /home with my ssh access before
attempting a reboot
1822 [17:20:40] <greycat> It's a tip-of-the-iceberg kind of
thing.
1823 [17:20:47] <BCMM> (or, better, declare the old partition to
be the new /home/ - delete old fs and move things around, avoiding
any need for copy time)
1824 [17:20:56] *** Joins: f-a (~f-a@replaced-ip )
1825 [17:21:05] *** Joins: comphuse_ (~comphuse@replaced-ip )
1826 [17:21:31] <f-a> how permanent are "expiration:
never" pastes in debian's pastezone?
1827 [17:21:40] <nemo> oooh. I do have an entirely separate
virtual disc on this machine that I could use for the dev install.
hm...
1828 [17:21:45] <nemo> forgot about that
1829 [17:21:48] <BCMM> nemo: i'm thinking that you could run
sshd in the chroot, by using a non-default port, and thus confirm
your ssh setup is working properly before the reboot
1830 [17:21:53] *** Joins: stefanc_diff (~stefanc_d@replaced-ip )
1831 [17:21:59] <BCMM> nemo: oh lol, *now* you say!
1832 [17:21:59] <ralh418> ps axf
1833 [17:22:19] <nemo> BCMM: I forgot about it 😉
1834 [17:22:19] *** Quits: Pjusur (~Pjusur@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
1835 [17:22:25] <nemo> BCMM: in fact, 2 of the machines are setup
that way
1836 [17:22:26] * ralh418 finds more coffee
1837 [17:22:50] <nemo> lemme see if the 3rd is
1838 [17:23:06] <nemo> although I could just ask for another disc
for that one
1839 [17:23:12] *** Quits: comphuse (~comphuse@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1840 [17:23:13] *** comphuse_ is now known as comphuse
1841 [17:23:32] <nemo> nice... 60 gigs on that one. hah.
1842 [17:23:34] <BCMM> ralh418: one way i'm going to be
sufficiently on-the-ball to type out a worrying-looking running
command in response to one of those
1843 [17:23:39] *** Joins: diogenes_ (~diogenes_@replaced-ip )
1844 [17:24:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1290
1845 [17:24:28] *** Quits: hanasaki (~hanasaki@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1846 [17:24:35] <nemo> BCMM: so... what's debootstrap? you
guys have mentioned it twice? I was literally going to figure out
how to run the graphical installer over ssh -YC ☺
1847 [17:24:43] <nemo> but maybe that's not the best idea
1848 [17:24:46] *** Joins: soul-d (~nonme@replaced-ip )
1849 [17:24:49] <greycat> !debootstrap
1850 [17:24:50] <dpkg> debootstrap can create a basic Debian
system from scratch, without apt/dpkg. Useful for installing in a
<chroot>. It is key to installing Debian GNU/Linux from a
Unix/Linux system, ask me about <install guide>.
replaced-url
1851 [17:24:55] <ralh418> yeah, I would love my SMS apps
functionality in many different text fields; pressing send has a
configurable delay, so say 2 sec later you can still hit cancel :D
1852 [17:24:56] <nemo> gracias
1853 [17:24:58] *** Quits: Haohmaru (~Haohmaru@replaced-ip ) ()
1854 [17:25:00] *** Quits: super_gollum (~ich@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
1855 [17:26:13] <BCMM> nemo: ever installed gentoo?
1856 [17:26:30] *** Joins: ntd (~ntd@replaced-ip )
1857 [17:26:34] <nemo> BCMM: many times actually ☺
1858 [17:26:40] <nemo> BCMM: BUT not recently
1859 [17:26:44] <BCMM> nemo: well, debootstrap is kind of like
that but without all the compiling
1860 [17:26:52] *** Joins: dadrc (~dadrc@replaced-ip )
1861 [17:26:56] *** Joins: hanasaki (~hanasaki@replaced-ip )
1862 [17:27:02] <nemo> yeah, reading about it, it does seem to
have similarities to that initial core tarball
1863 [17:27:25] *** Quits: dadrc (~dadrc@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1864 [17:27:25] <nemo> BCMM: for my mandrake server a decade ago I
literally unpacked that over the running system with some exclusions
1865 [17:27:34] <nemo> and it surprisingly worked ☺
1866 [17:27:52] <BCMM> nemo: from whatever linux system you
already have, you create a filesystem, mount it, tell debootstrap to
set up a basic debian on it, bind mount the important virtual stuff,
chroot it, set up bootloader and go
1867 [17:27:55] <BCMM> more or less
1868 [17:28:22] <nemo> s/decade/16 years/
1869 [17:28:23] *** Joins: polo51 (~polo51@replaced-ip )
1870 [17:28:24] <nemo> wow. time flies
1871 [17:28:52] <BCMM> nemo: heh, there's a stereotype about
Mandrake users installing gentoo
1872 [17:28:59] <nemo> really!
1873 [17:29:03] <BCMM> i did the same switch back in the day to be
fair
1874 [17:29:18] <BCMM>
replaced-url
1875 [17:29:23] <nemo> hah
1876 [17:29:25] *** Quits: iflema (~ian@replaced-ip ) (Quit: iflema)
1877 [17:29:48] <nemo> BCMM: one thing I was doing at the time was
manually patching the mandrake kernel to maintain the badram mask.
and I was kinda thinking. well hell, if I'm already going to
all THIS trouble 😝
1878 [17:30:24] <BCMM> mandrake was *awful* though... i had some
sort of dhcp bug which would make the system wait around doing
nothing for 30 seconds during boot
1879 [17:30:41] <nemo> ow. I've definitely done that by
accident
1880 [17:31:35] <nemo> actually, this laptop, whether ubuntu or
debian, is crap at suspending with lid closed. every once in a while
I'll realise fan is spinning inside my backpack and yank it out
in a panic. I'm sure I'm speeding up its eventual demise
☹ - anyway, upshot is after that I get to wait on boot while the
eth0 lock times out
1881 [17:31:36] <greycat> Nothing like the good old "DNS is
down so sendmail can't resolve my hostname so my boot
hangs".
1882 [17:32:26] <greycat> And some people actually *choose* to go
back to sysvinit. It's unfathomable.
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1884 [17:32:33] *** Quits: Sabotender (~Sabotende@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1885 [17:32:39] * nemo raises his hand
1886 [17:33:29] *** Joins: mrig (~mrig@replaced-ip )
1887 [17:34:38] <nemo> BCMM: btw, after reading that piece,
I'd have to say what made me keep a fair # of machines on
gentoo was the fact that -dev was basically there by default which
was super handy, and -dbg was pretty convenient too, with whatever
additional flags I might want
1888 [17:34:49] <nemo> BCMM: also, I've made more than a few
ebuild patches
1889 [17:34:51] *** Quits: os_ (~os_@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1890 [17:34:52] <nemo> and ebuilds
1891 [17:35:07] <nemo> BCMM: also the USE flag flexibility is darn
nice
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1894 [17:35:35] <nemo> BCMM: but yeah, I'm quite familiar w/
the gentoo "ricer" syndrome he's describing there -
there was even a website dedicated to that
1895 [17:35:42] *** Quits: comphuse (~comphuse@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1896 [17:35:59] <BCMM> greycat: well i was gonna say, after the
mandrake thing, i never has a machine that took a completely
unpredictable amount of time to shut down and startup *until*
systemd happened...
1897 [17:36:01] <greycat> !funroll-loops
1898 [17:36:01] <dpkg> -funroll-loops is a favorite compile time
flag of the -O9999999 crowd. It's also an interesting
collection of observations about the "compile everything with
random CFLAGS" phenomenon which is sweeping the land, and which
<Gentoo> is a prime example. See
replaced-url
1899 [17:36:07] <outoftime> nemo: I can switch to tty1 if
something bad will happend or try to execute another command
1900 [17:36:15] *** Joins: xcm (~xcm@replaced-ip )
1901 [17:36:19] <BCMM> greycat: dpkg needs an up-to-date mirror
1902 [17:36:27] <BCMM> that site's been down for ages
1903 [17:36:29] <petn-randall> That page still exists??
1904 [17:36:37] <nemo> outoftime: up arrow might save you too ☺
1905 [17:36:41] <BCMM> petn-randall:
replaced-url
1906 [17:36:42] *** Joins: mibo (~mibo@replaced-ip )
1907 [17:36:48] <nemo> BCMM: that's the one ☺
1908 [17:36:55] <petn-randall> greycat: That URI is dead, you
might want to update it.
1909 [17:37:06] <greycat> dpkg, funroll-loops =~ s#replaced-url
1910 [17:37:06] <dpkg> OK, greycat
1911 [17:37:10] <outoftime> nemo: I have upgraded my Ubuntu 14.04
to 16.04 recentry and after that I have just mounted all user
directory for debian stretch, made separate /boot partition on the
way
1912 [17:37:38] <nemo> BCMM: I had a gentoo laptop that I used -Os
on ☺ It was a P166 with 96MiB of RAM - ran an XFCE4 desktop
surprisingly well
1913 [17:37:44] <nemo> 'course XFCE was less of a hog at the
time
1914 [17:38:19] *** Quits: comphuse_ (~comphuse@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1915 [17:38:35] <nemo> Was rather shocked at just how badly XFCE4
did in this classic test
replaced-url
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1918 [17:39:12] <greycat> how do you "test" a deskt...
oh, it's wordpress.
1919 [17:39:17] <anzipex> How to get installation status of
deb-package?
1920 [17:39:27] <greycat> anzipex: dpkg -l pkgname, or dpkg -s
pkgname
1921 [17:39:39] <themill> !installed test
1922 [17:39:39] <dpkg> To test in a script if a package is
installed, you can: if dpkg -l $package 2>/dev/null | grep -q
^.i; then echo yes; fi or if [[ $(dpkg-query -f'${Status}'
--show $package 2>/dev/null) = *\ installed ]]; then echo yes;
fi. Note that "installed" isn't a simple concept --
is the package configured yet? is it actually scheduled for removal?
See man dpkg "package states" and "selection
states" for more details.
1923 [17:39:45] <greycat> -l gives you the flags that say whether
it's half-configured or whatever, if that's what
you're looking for
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1926 [17:40:10] <nemo> greycat:
replaced-url
1927 [17:40:21] <nemo> greycat: the comments raised various
concerns, so he reran
1928 [17:40:27] <nemo> the results were not significantly
different
1929 [17:40:32] <greycat> Oh, just memory use? Seems like a pretty
unimportant criterion for most users.
1930 [17:40:44] <nemo> greycat: eh. depends.
1931 [17:40:48] <outoftime> nemo: what about chroot? You can try
to exctact ubuntu on some partition and chroot there. Problem is
partitioning, it is really impossible to partition mounted device.
1932 [17:40:50] <nemo> greycat: I run a lot of memory heavy stuff
1933 [17:41:00] <nemo> greycat: but if you're using XFCE4 to
be "lightweight" it might come as a surprise just how much
it used
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1935 [17:41:11] <greycat> Memory use on current systems is
COMPLETELY dominated by the web browser. Everything else added
together isn't even close.
1936 [17:41:12] <nemo> greycat: most people think of MATE/gnome2
as "heavy" and XFCE4 as "light"
1937 [17:41:23] <nemo> greycat: true. especially on chrome
1938 [17:41:34] <ikarosuusi> What's the modern way to set
locale?
1939 [17:41:44] <nemo> greycat: coworker at work was trying to
show me something in MS Word, and it was just crareplaced-url
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1941 [17:42:10] <nemo> greycat: windows process list shows
¾s of his system memory was chrome. and for just a dozen tabs
- but ofc web pages are completely insane nowdays
1942 [17:42:18] <greycat> ikarosuusi: depends on your environment.
It's not a question of modernity. It's a question of how
you log in and whether you're using some Desktop Environment
that rearranges everything.
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1946 [17:43:10] <ikarosuusi> Right, ofcourse.
1947 [17:43:30] <nemo> greycat: but anyway, conveniently running
the desktop I prefer already also saves me 128 megs to shovel into
eclipse, sql developer, vmware view, firefox or just file caching ☺
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1955 [17:47:35] <tsglove> nemo, what desktop environment do you
run?
1956 [17:47:38] <nemo> tsglove: MATE
1957 [17:47:56] <nemo> tsglove: been on that for, well, since
gnome2 came into existence
1958 [17:48:10] <tsglove> Cool. Haven´t tried it myself.
1959 [17:48:14] <nemo> have it all configured just the way I like
it. Ditto my SO, father-in-law, mother etc
1960 [17:48:24] <tsglove> That´s what matters ^^
1961 [17:48:32] <nemo> tsglove: I tried installing gnome3 and
unity on my SO's laptop and she made an effort but just got too
annoyed with them
1962 [17:48:33] <tsglove> Have stuff where you want.
1963 [17:48:35] <nemo> tsglove: so she's back on MATE too
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1965 [17:48:51] <tsglove> Interesting. I stuck with xfce since...
since I first touched it.
1966 [17:49:04] <anzipex> greycat, but if i have installed version
like 0.1, then i install version 0.2. How to get results of fails
installation?
1967 [17:49:07] <nemo> tsglove: I've used XFCE in past, but
it was just... not as integrated. clunkier
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1970 [17:49:28] <nemo> tsglove: random example. I put it on my
mom's laptop and she just got frustrated 'cause the
desktop clock util would not let her change time/timezone like MATE
would
1971 [17:49:35] <nemo> tsglove: (mate one asks for system privs if
needed)
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1973 [17:50:02] <nemo> tsglove: also there were like 2 different
control panels and what would be found where seemed kinda random.
but maybe that's improved
1974 [17:50:12] <nemo> tsglove: anyway since it doesn't save
on memory, why not stick with the one I'm familiar with eh
1975 [17:50:15] <tsglove> Cool beans. To each his own.
1976 [17:50:24] <tsglove> Exactly.
1977 [17:50:29] <nemo> tsglove: oh. also auto-CD mount - she used
the MATE virtual file system a lot
1978 [17:50:43] <tsglove> I have been meaning to try debian +
swayDM, yet... too many projects on the table.
1979 [17:50:46] <nemo> er. she being my mother in this case, one
w/ timezone issue
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1982 [17:51:13] <greycat> Did she travel a lot? Why would she want
to change time zones...
1983 [17:51:22] <nemo> greycat: yes
1984 [17:51:32] <nemo> greycat: I live on east coast, so does my
brother. she lives on west
1985 [17:51:39] <nemo> greycat: oh. also she owns a plane ☺
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1987 [17:51:57] <nemo> greycat: she's actually flown across
the country in it O_o - it took a several layovers..
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1989 [17:52:09] <tsglove> That would be awesome.
1990 [17:52:29] <tsglove> Only to find out she has to fly back to
California because the clock in the laptop is off.
1991 [17:52:34] <nemo> haha
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2013 [18:05:32] <ikarosuusi> Are there security concerns regarding
locale?
2014 [18:08:51] <petn-randall> ikarosuusi: That is a very vague
question. Can you be more specific?
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2016 [18:09:18] <ikarosuusi> Like for example, should I set my
locale only for my user and not root?
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2019 [18:09:57] <ikarosuusi> I'm kind of wondering why it
wasn't set up during the install despite the questions.
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2021 [18:10:28] <ikarosuusi> Maybe it's because of KDE?
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2026 [18:16:21] <petn-randall> ikarosuusi: What wasn't set
up?
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2060 [18:32:51] <jaggz> I insert my memory card and it auto
mounts, but it comes in as root.. whycome?
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2063 [18:33:17] <jaggz> my kde shows me the popup to open it with
a file viewer or photo management thing (digikam or whatever).
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2068 [18:34:44] <ikarosuusi> petn-randall: Well I get these:
locale: Cannot set LC_CTYPE to default locale: No such file or
directory
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2070 [18:35:22] <greycat> export LANG=C; unset LANGUAGE LC_ALL
2071 [18:35:39] <greycat> that should get you to a base-line
working state from which you can fix things without annoying
warnings
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2074 [18:36:30] <greycat> Oh, you mentioned LC_CTYPE explicitly,
so unset that one too. unset LANGUAGE LC_ALL LC_CTYPE
2075 [18:36:44] <greycat> And anything else that you have
accidentally set that isn't LANG.
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2078 [18:38:03] <ikarosuusi> Ok, before that, should there be
stuff in /etc/default/locale ?
2079 [18:38:28] <jelly> jaggz: which filesystem type is there on
the card?
2080 [18:38:34] <greycat> If you do a "dpkg-reconfigure
locales" and allow it to select a default locale other than
"none", it will put stuff in that file.
2081 [18:39:12] <jelly> C.UTF-8 would seems like the most sensible
global default these days
2082 [18:39:12] <ikarosuusi> And so if I just remove the file I
won't really break anything?
2083 [18:39:14] <jaggz> jelly, probably some fat thing. it's
a camera memory card
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2088 [18:39:51] <greycat> ikarosuusi: it will act as though you
had an empty file and thus no default locale, which may be a good
thing or a bad thing depending on how you configured everything else
2089 [18:40:05] <jelly> ikarosuusi: but setting locales that way
is entirely optional from OS point
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2091 [18:40:48] <jelly> things you use might behave differently,
but no part of the distro services should break, if they do
it's a big
2092 [18:40:51] <jelly> bug*
2093 [18:41:05] <greycat> 'twould be a big bug indeed
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2096 [18:42:14] <ikarosuusi> Ok, for this step I'm just gonna
do that. Relog after?
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2103 [18:45:00] <ikarosuusi> Ok then, brb.
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2119 [18:51:44] <ikarosuusi> Ok, to be slightly clearer I'm
gonna include a pastebin here:
replaced-url
2120 [18:52:00] <ikarosuusi> There's two types of messages
coming out from 'locale'
2121 [18:52:32] <ikarosuusi> Should I just erase all of it?
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2123 [18:52:53] <greycat> erase all of *what*?
2124 [18:53:38] <ikarosuusi> Well, I have these messages
concerning the ones with No such file and then there are the ones
that I have "accidentally" set
2125 [18:53:54] <greycat> Did you run "dpkg-reconfigure
locales" yet and actually generate that en_FI.UTF-8 locale that
you seem to be requesting? Does such a locale even exist?
2126 [18:54:00] <ikarosuusi> All of this is just a big accident
right now from my point of view (I'm sorry)
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2129 [18:54:31] <ikarosuusi> Not after removing
/etc/default/locale
2130 [18:54:42] <greycat> When I go into dpkg-reconfigure locales
on stretch, I do NOT see an en_FI locale. There's en_DK and
en_GB and nothing in between.
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2132 [18:55:07] <ikarosuusi> Maybe you don't have all the
possible locales installed?
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2134 [18:55:29] <greycat> .... When YOU go into dpkg-reconfigure
locales on YOUR system, what do YOU see?
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2137 [18:56:24] <ikarosuusi> No you're right no such thing as
en_FI
2138 [18:56:51] <greycat> So then the next question is where did
that LANG=en_FI.UTF-8 setting come from? Is it in one of your login
profiles?
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2143 [18:57:52] <ikarosuusi> My login profiles are empty
2144 [18:58:19] <greycat> Is it in /etc/environment? Is it in
/etc/default/locale? Is it in /etc/profile?
2145 [18:58:27] <ikarosuusi> I've got en_US and fi_FI checked
in dpkg-reconfigure locales
2146 [18:58:28] <greycat> Is it being sent by an ssh client?
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2151 [19:00:23] <ikarosuusi> Nope.
2152 [19:00:42] <ikarosuusi> I'll remind you I have KDE
installed
2153 [19:01:52] <ikarosuusi> There I have suomi (it's finland
in finnish) set as my language
2154 [19:01:54] <greycat> Then you may have to bang your ahead
against a GUI.
2155 [19:02:04] <greycat> head*
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2163 [19:05:19] <ikarosuusi> YEah, right
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2165 [19:05:29] <JordiGH> I used
replaced-url
2166 [19:05:37] <JordiGH> But I can't figure out how to save
the file!
2167 [19:05:50] <JordiGH> The docs say to go to a file menu, but
Gnome has decided that menus are no longer allowed.
2168 [19:05:57] <JordiGH> Well, mate decided, I guess.
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2171 [19:06:48] <JordiGH> So I have this now:
replaced-url
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2173 [19:06:55] <JordiGH> I don't know if this is just in RAM
or what.
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2190 [19:12:54] <pongo> jii
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2219 [19:23:20] <ikarosuusi> Yeah, got it solved, KDE gave me a
"Region" en_FI automatically instead of fi_FI
2220 [19:23:25] <velix> I've got a LXC question concerning
Stretch: Is "lxc.mount.auto = proc:mixed sys:ro
cgroup:mixed" still? I've read, it was up to Jessie only?
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2239 [19:32:10] <ikarosuusi> Thanks greycat couldn't have
pinned the problem without you
2240 [19:32:16] <ikarosuusi> and jelly
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2269 [19:49:30] <pongo> someone solve my problem
2270 [19:49:48] <sheoul1988_> tell us
2271 [19:49:50] <bites> hope it's a puzzle.
2272 [19:50:00] <petn-randall> pongo: My crystal ball is in the
shop for repairs, so you'll have to explain your issue the old
way.
2273 [19:50:00] <nyov> pongo: solved
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2280 [19:52:18] <annadane> instructions unclear, overthrew chilean
dictatorship
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2296 [20:00:10] <petn-randall> !next
2297 [20:00:10] <dpkg> Another happy customer leaves the building.
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2301 [20:02:22] <velix> Anyone with an idea?
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2305 [20:03:10] <petn-randall> velix: I fail to parse your first
question. It's missing words, I think.
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2308 [20:04:10] <greycat> !any ideas
2309 [20:04:11] <dpkg> Yeah, I have an idea! But I'll need a
drawer full of herring, a little cod liver oil, and 42 rabid
hamsters. And keep the KGB off my back for the next few minutes!
2310 [20:04:31] <velix> petn-randall: let me patch it
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2312 [20:05:25] <velix> I've got a question concerning LXC.
I've read "lxc.mount.auto = proc:mixed sys:ro
cgroup:mixed" was needed at least for Jessie, but is it still
needed for stretch?
2313 [20:05:48] <petn-randall> velix: Needed for what?
2314 [20:06:19] <velix> petn-randall: for the container's
config.
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2316 [20:07:38] <shtrb> Is it true that Debian buster is going to
move wayland by default ?
2317 [20:07:59] <petn-randall> velix: To do what?
2318 [20:08:00] <greycat> It's probably more complicated than
that. Ask #debian-next for the details.
2319 [20:08:18] <shtrb> true
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2321 [20:08:25] <velix> petn-randall: Ah! FOund it. Thanks.
replaced-url
2322 [20:08:26] <judd> Bug
replaced-url
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2325 [20:11:00] <n4dir>
replaced-url
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2331 [20:12:31] <greycat> Wasn't me. From the history, it
looks like it's mostly this StephenKeeling guy.
2332 [20:12:46] <shtrb> what ?
2333 [20:14:18] <n4dir> shtrb: the linked site from
wiki.debian.org says (at the very bottom) a goal would be to make
Wayland default for gnome3, but to me the whole page doesn't
look like anything official.
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2335 [20:14:46] <shtrb> that I got, I didn't get greycats
comment (then realized it was for someone else)
2336 [20:14:57] <greycat> It needs to be reorganized. Probably
just move all of StephenKeeling's anecdotal blog stuff to the
bottom....
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2374 [20:30:08] <sujonboss2> hiii
2375 [20:30:26] <petn-randall> hi sujonboss2
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2379 [20:31:47] <pongo> hii all
2380 [20:32:02] <sujonboss2> hello petn
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2486 [21:33:53] <outoftime> pongo: !ask
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2490 [21:34:35] <nyov> nyov: !ask
2491 [21:34:38] <nyov> testing
2492 [21:34:38] *** Parts: gkgk (~gkgk@replaced-ip ) ()
2493 [21:34:53] <nyov> test failed
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2497 [21:35:17] <Rust3dCor3> Hi. How to make in
xfce4-applicationfinder --colapsed a shourtcat for a command? like I
would like to launch a bashscript or something though it? where
should i put a symlink?
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2500 [21:35:57] <outoftime> nemo: thank you for advicing `xrandr
--brightness` it does what I expected.
2501 [21:36:27] <outoftime> nyov: type /msg dpkg ask
2502 [21:37:02] *** dexta_ is now known as dexta
2503 [21:37:41] <outoftime> Rust3dCor3: so you do not want to use
terminal, gui only?
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2507 [21:39:09] <Rust3dCor3> outoftime: its for waterfox. Im just
getting angry because i can launch it via waterfox.desktop, but not
via applicationfinder. also in terminal it shows that it cant load
xpcom. Im trying aliases and other stuff
2508 [21:39:11] *** Quits: P1ersson (~P1ersson@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2509 [21:39:39] <Rust3dCor3> outoftime:maybe You have any other
suggestion. no make file inside so i cant make a system wide install
2510 [21:39:51] <Rust3dCor3> outoftime: or im just that dumb
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2517 [21:44:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1276
2518 [21:44:02] <greycat> I, uh, can't seem to find out how
to find the waterfox installation instructions on their web site.
But there's a .tar.bz2 file. So isn't is just going to be
something like "cd /opt && tar zjf
/wherever/waterfox*.tar.bz2"?
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2520 [21:44:15] <greycat> err, xjf
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2523 [21:45:25] <outoftime> Rust3dCor3: "can launch it via
waterfox.desktop, but not via applicationfinder" Figure out
what format used by applicationfinder and write it for yourself
according to data from *.desktop
2524 [21:45:25] <Rust3dCor3> greycat: I have it in opt. but i want
to launch it via alt+f2
2525 [21:45:46] *** Parts: LucaVanzin (~lucavanzi@replaced-ip ) ()
2526 [21:46:02] <outoftime> Rust3dCor3: "also in terminal it
shows that it cant load xpcom" read *.desktop carefully
2527 [21:47:00] <outoftime> Rust3dCor3: do you use GNU\Debian?
2528 [21:47:27] <Rust3dCor3> outoftime: Yes, I use Debian 9.5
2529 [21:47:40] *** Joins: lucavanzin (~lucavanzi@replaced-ip )
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2531 [21:47:53] <outoftime> Rust3dCor3: you have to spend more
time to figure out how to use sandboxing applications
2532 [21:48:12] *** Quits: lucavanzin (~lucavanzi@replaced-ip ) (Client Quit)
2533 [21:48:12] <outoftime> Rust3dCor3: otherwise your system
became dirty very fast
2534 [21:48:28] <Rust3dCor3> where to start?
2535 [21:48:50] <velix> Anyone with an idea, how to create a
write-able shared-folder in LXC on Debian? "lxc" command
doesn't exist here.
2536 [21:48:54] <outoftime> Rust3dCor3: I'm newbie with
debian, 4th day...
2537 [21:49:17] <Rust3dCor3> outoftime: I'm here like 4 years
and You are way better than me
2538 [21:50:04] <outoftime> Rust3dCor3: I'm ubuntu user since
13.10... like 5 years...
2539 [21:50:42] <outoftime> Rust3dCor3: tired with troubleshooting
on ubuntu, what something more stable.
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2541 [21:52:16] *** Quits: krabador (~krabador@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2542 [21:52:48] <outoftime> velix: follow
replaced-url
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2549 [21:53:39] <velix> outoftime: sorry, there's no
tutorial, how to created a writeable shared folder.
2550 [21:53:45] <outoftime> Rust3dCor3: are you programmer or
regular user?
2551 [21:53:53] <velix> outoftime: it's pretty complicated:
replaced-url
2552 [21:53:58] <Rust3dCor3> outoftime: regular
2553 [21:54:00] <velix> outoftime: but Debian doesn't have
LXC
2554 [21:54:34] <outoftime> velix: "lxc" command
doesn't exist here. - install it first
2555 [21:54:47] <velix> outoftime: Debian doesn't have this.
2556 [21:55:08] <Zr40> sure it does.
replaced-url
2557 [21:55:50] <greycat> ,v lxc
2558 [21:55:52] <judd> Package: lxc on amd64 -- wheezy:
0.8.0~rc1-8+deb7u2; jessie-security: 1:1.0.6-6+deb8u2; jessie:
1:1.0.6-6+deb8u6; jessie-backports: 1:2.0.7-2~bpo8+1; stretch:
1:2.0.7-2+deb9u2; buster: 1:2.0.9-6.1; sid: 1:2.0.9-6.1
2559 [21:55:53] *** Joins: rpifan (~rpifan@replaced-ip )
2560 [21:55:58] <velix> sigh....
2561 [21:56:08] <velix> It has LXC, but not the command
"lxc"
2562 [21:56:14] <greycat> ,file bin/lxc
2563 [21:56:16] <Zr40> sigh. So install the "lxc"
package
2564 [21:56:19] <judd> No packages in stretch/amd64 were found
with that file.
2565 [21:56:24] *** Joins: deadz0 (~deadz0@replaced-ip )
2566 [21:56:40] <Zr40>
replaced-url
2567 [21:56:50] <outoftime> Rust3dCor3: I'm supposted to be a
programmer and be able to write debian from scratch by myself, at
least early versions... Maybe XFCE just not so friendly for regular
users and you have to try some different DE...
2568 [21:57:34] *** Quits: ScottE (~ScottE@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2569 [21:57:55] <Rust3dCor3> outoftime: i was using gnome2 and
mate long ago. I've stick to xfce for some resemblance. Its a
pain in the ass from time to time, but its ok on daily basis
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2574 [21:58:31] <Zr40> velix: I see what's confusing you.
There is no "lxc" command, but there are "lxc-*"
commands
2575 [21:58:47] <velix> Zr40: Yeah and none provides the
functionality of lxc.
2576 [21:59:02] <Zr40> which is?
2577 [21:59:03] <velix> Zr40: I think, Debian doesn't have
this, but a bunch of own scripts.
2578 [21:59:04] *** Quits: oo_miguel (~miguel@replaced-ip ) (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
2579 [21:59:11] <velix> Zr40: f.e.
replaced-url
2580 [21:59:26] <velix> There's no way to reproduce tutorials
like this.
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2587 [22:01:05] <flashpoint> what options are there for a rolling
debian
2588 [22:01:18] <Zr40> velix: that's LXD, not LXC, and LXD is
indeed not currently in debian
2589 [22:01:18] <outoftime> Rust3dCor3: I'm using xfce right
now, just made liveusb with debian-xfce, but I'm going to
change in it the future, too much unfamilar configurations for me.
You you have enough performance on your machine, select one DE,
study it and be with it. I can configure systems for my family and
they do not worry about how to do it, they just use it. If you have
nowhere to ask for help, in real live, you have
2590 [22:01:24] <outoftime> to study on your own.
2591 [22:01:38] <velix> Zr40: confusing. Thanks.
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2599 [22:03:57] <outoftime> velix: Do you know how to use ubuntu
package manager?
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2602 [22:05:28] <velix> outoftime: you mean this ppa stuff?
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2605 [22:06:43] <jhutchins_wk> flashpoint: Debian isn't a
rolling-release distro.
2606 [22:07:05] <outoftime> velix: I mean I didn't read Zr40
message before I wrote that.
replaced-url
2607 [22:07:48] *** Joins: finalbeta1 (~finalbeta@replaced-ip )
2608 [22:08:29] <velix> Okay, then thing will get complicated now.
Thanks for your time.
2609 [22:08:49] <flashpoint> SID is
2610 [22:09:19] <outoftime> velix:
replaced-url
2611 [22:09:32] <velix> :D
2612 [22:09:47] *** Joins: soee (~soee@replaced-ip )
2613 [22:10:23] <SerajewelKS> sid is also not really supported
though, unless you're willing to actually help track down
issues
2614 [22:10:49] <SerajewelKS> if you encounter a problem in sid
you'll likely be told "don't use sid" or
"submit a bug report and wait for the fix" or "fix
the problem and submit a patch"
2615 [22:10:57] *** Quits: finalbeta (~finalbeta@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2616 [22:11:03] *** Quits: DrWatson (~DrWatson_@replaced-ip ) (Quit: DrWatson)
2617 [22:11:26] <outoftime> velix: What? Docker is container
supervisor similar to lxd in some cases.
2618 [22:11:33] <flashpoint> ok
2619 [22:11:44] <SerajewelKS> !sid
2620 [22:11:44] <dpkg> well, sid is the codename for
<unstable>, named after the kid in Toy Story that breaks toys.
The great thing about running sid is that when it breaks, you get to
keep ALL the pieces!!
2621 [22:11:55] <Zr40> speaking of sid - am I reading
replaced-url
2622 [22:11:58] <flashpoint> what's a good rolling distro,
I'm sick of the arch "community"
2623 [22:12:10] <velix> outoftime: docker runs as root only. I
don't want this.
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2626 [22:12:17] <flashpoint> the only time I ever need to engage
them is when someone else breaks my shit
2627 [22:12:32] <flashpoint> and it is just terrible
2628 [22:12:35] <greycat> End users who need instructions for
simple things like making a web browser work should not be running
buster OR sid.
2629 [22:12:59] <greycat> flashpoint: try ##linux for unbiased
distribution reviews/comparisons
2630 [22:13:12] *** Quits: locodeviant (~locodevia@replaced-ip ) (Quit: locodeviant)
2631 [22:13:12] <flashpoint> unbiased? that's a rambling mess
2632 [22:13:20] *** Quits: soee (~soee@replaced-ip ) (Client Quit)
2633 [22:13:33] <greycat> Well, in #debian we will tell you to use
Debian, and that rolling releases are just shitstorms waiting to
fall on you.
2634 [22:13:35] <flashpoint> of a channel
2635 [22:13:37] <outoftime> velix: you can add your user to docker
group
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2640 [22:14:17] <Zr40> greycat: I agree, but that's not what
I asked :)
2641 [22:14:20] <velix> outoftime: the daemon and all containers
are still running as rood.
2642 [22:14:23] *** Quits: pax (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip ) (Quit: pax)
2643 [22:14:30] <velix> outoftime: adding the users to docker
group is like "suoders"
2644 [22:14:35] <SerajewelKS> Zr40: "apt install
firefox-esr"
2645 [22:14:40] *** Quits: towo` (~towo@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2646 [22:14:50] <Zr40> SerajewelKS: sorry, should have said
'current firefox'
2647 [22:15:03] *** Quits: abff (~abff@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2648 [22:15:04] <greycat> Zr40: if *YOU* are such an end user,
running buster out of your depth, either ask in #debian-next, or use
stable.
2649 [22:15:26] <greycat> Stable has firefox-esr 60.x and this
dodges whatever the firefox-52-gripe-of-the-day is.
2650 [22:15:27] <SerajewelKS> Zr40: debian does not package
"current firefox" IIRC, it only packages ESRs
2651 [22:15:39] *** Joins: TheManWithNoSock (~paige@replaced-ip )
2652 [22:15:49] <SerajewelKS> Zr40: if you want "current
firefox" on debian, the traditional advice is to download the
release tarball from mozilla and stick it in /opt
2653 [22:15:57] <outoftime> velix: I'd like to argue with you
about it, but I haven't used it for like a year. You still can
use LXC by hand to do same thing that docker do.
2654 [22:16:00] <greycat> Yes, Virginia, the version of
firefox-esr in stable is NEWER THAN the version in buster.
2655 [22:16:12] <Zr40> never mind the firefox part. I'm only
asking to see if my understanding of those instructions are correct,
in that doing that would upgrade to sid.
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peaceful. It's the transition that's troublesome." -
Isaac Asimov)
2658 [22:16:29] <greycat> I am not even going to LOOK at the
fucking "instructions". Why should we care?
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2661 [22:17:06] <SerajewelKS> Zr40: i don't see any
instructions on that page that say to upgrade to sid
2662 [22:17:07] <outoftime> SerajewelKS: what about sandboxing?
2663 [22:17:10] <SerajewelKS> so i don't know what you are
reading
2664 [22:17:12] <velix> outoftime: That's why everyone says:
"docker isn't for security". The container is always
run as root... You can't run it unpriviliged. But you can do it
with LXC. LXC is working so far, but the sharing makes trouble :D
2665 [22:17:48] <Zr40> SerajewelKS: it says to add "deb
replaced-url
2666 [22:18:05] <greycat> and then what?
2667 [22:18:17] <greycat> does it end with "and then put it
back how it was originally"?
2668 [22:18:22] <Zr40> no.
2669 [22:18:23] <SerajewelKS> Zr40: where does it say that? what
options did you select?
2670 [22:18:28] *** Joins: soee_ (~soee@replaced-ip )
2671 [22:18:31] <SerajewelKS> you're not giving me enough
information to even help
2672 [22:18:32] <outoftime> velix: that is why everybody is using
docker (:
2673 [22:18:42] <greycat> 'cause there was a recent post on
debian-user that said something very like what I just said.
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2676 [22:19:07] <SerajewelKS> outoftime: that's a vague term
that could mean any of a dozen different things so. sure. i guess
you could do one of those dozen things if you are a masochist.
2677 [22:19:24] <Zr40> SerajewelKS: it says that after selecting
"testing", "Firefox", "release"
2678 [22:19:50] *** Joins: Kadigan_KSB (~kadigan@replaced-ip )
2679 [22:20:02] <SerajewelKS> Zr40: that won't upgrade you to
sid because, IIRC, testing is pinned with higher priority than sid
by default
2680 [22:20:06] <outoftime> SerajewelKS: I'm not masochist, I
just want and NEED to keep my system clean.
2681 [22:20:08] <SerajewelKS> which i why it tells you to supply
"-t unstable" to apt-get
2682 [22:20:11] <velix> outoftime: I know many corporations, which
are banning docker on their public servers.
2683 [22:20:28] *** Quits: Kadigan (~kadigan@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2684 [22:20:48] <SerajewelKS> outoftime: which is why you stuff in
it /opt/firefox-$VERSION so you can easily rm it when you're
done with that release
2685 [22:20:51] *** Quits: oish (~charlie@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2686 [22:21:44] <Zr40> SerajewelKS: I see. Pinning was the bit of
information I was missing
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2689 [22:22:23] <SerajewelKS> Zr40: yeah, that wasn't the
case some number of releases ago. i guess so many people
accidentially upgraded themselves to sid that it was made default to
pin stable above testing, and testing above unstable
2690 [22:22:39] *** Quits: HarveyPwca (~HarveyPwc@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2691 [22:22:44] <akko> hello, does anyone knows if Debian is
compatible with Via chipsets?
2692 [22:22:56] <SerajewelKS> !hcl
2693 [22:22:57] <dpkg> [hcl] Hardware Compatibility Lists for
Linux include
replaced-url
2694 [22:23:00] <SerajewelKS> akko: ^^^
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2699 [22:24:33] <jhutchins_wk> akko: Those lists rely on people
reporting their own equipment though, and people usually don't
report it unless they have a problem.
2700 [22:24:58] <outoftime> SerajewelKS: do you know how to
install this
replaced-url
2701 [22:25:21] <SerajewelKS> outoftime: ... "apt install
firefox-esr"
2702 [22:25:45] *** Joins: clay (~clay@replaced-ip )
2703 [22:25:45] <outoftime> SerajewelKS: I've done that, but
I still have 52...
2704 [22:25:51] <Zr40> then you're not on stretch
2705 [22:25:53] <SerajewelKS> did you run "apt update"
2706 [22:25:54] <greycat> outoftime: "apt-get install
firefox-esr"
2707 [22:26:08] <akko> oh well, so what you guys know about the
computer turning off on tty? it's not overheating as the fans
are up and running, and the computer used to work just fine with
(((windows)))
2708 [22:26:26] *** Quits: dethos (~dethos@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2709 [22:26:28] <akko> it is a preeeetty old computer tho, Celeron
M 430, originally 512mb ram
2710 [22:27:09] <karlpinc> akko: Have you looked at the logs?
Perhaps the oom killer has shut down X?
2711 [22:27:28] <karlpinc> akko: )O
2712 [22:27:34] *** Joins: Kevlar_Noir (~lexou@replaced-ip )
2713 [22:27:40] <akko> karlpinc: what logs?
2714 [22:27:42] <nyov> outoftime: also, security update ^.^ : echo
"deb
replaced-url
2715 [22:27:45] <karlpinc> akko: (I'm not sure what you mean
by "turnintg off tty".)
2716 [22:27:48] <akko> and.. what's oom killer?
2717 [22:27:52] <greycat> !oom
2718 [22:27:52] <dpkg> what a woc says. Out Of Memory, or
replaced-url
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2720 [22:28:14] <akko> karlpinc: turning off ON tty, the laptop
turn itself off when i'm on the tty (I don't have any DE
installed tho)
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2725 [22:28:41] <karlpinc> outoftime: And don't forget to
"apt update" every now and then to get the latest list of
packages available.
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2730 [22:29:00] <karlpinc> akko: As in the machine powers down?
2731 [22:29:02] <akko> out of memory can't be a thing, as it
has a 2gb ram stick now
2732 [22:29:02] <jhutchins_wk> Actually, the oom killer kills
processes to free memory, and when it runs out of eligible processes
the computer usually freezes but doesn't shut down or reboot.
2733 [22:29:05] *** Joins: stefanc_diff (~stefanc_d@replaced-ip )
2734 [22:29:07] <akko> karlpinc: exactly
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2737 [22:29:44] <outoftime> nyov: I have separate files for
contrib.list and non-free.list
2738 [22:29:53] <greycat> outoftime: that is not normal.
2739 [22:29:55] *** Quits: K0JIbKA (~K0JIbKA@replaced-ip ) (Quit: K0JIbKA)
2740 [22:30:05] <greycat> It might work, but it is not normal.
2741 [22:30:09] <karlpinc> akko: Powering all the way down is odd.
What is going on when this happens? Are you stressing it, letting it
sit...?
2742 [22:30:39] <akko> karlpinc: whatever I do it just powers off
in like 30 seconds after i'm logged in
2743 [22:30:49] <outoftime> greycat: why is that?
2744 [22:30:59] <karlpinc> outoftime: I have 60.2, and have
stretch.
2745 [22:31:05] <akko> I can record a video for you to see if you
think that'd help
2746 [22:31:06] <outoftime> karlpinc: done too
2747 [22:31:13] *** Quits: Rust3dCor3 (~Rust3dCor@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2748 [22:31:23] *** Quits: flashpoint (flashpoint@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2749 [22:31:24] <greycat> Most people who add contrib and non-free
to their sources.list do so by editing the sources.list file and
altering the lines. Not by creating separate files.
2750 [22:31:36] <outoftime> karlpinc: I have no idea what was
wrong first time I have tryied it
2751 [22:32:02] *** Quits: diogenes_ (~diogenes_@replaced-ip ) (Quit: vergissmeinnicht)
2752 [22:32:23] <outoftime> greycat: I'm not like most of
people, I want more flexability on turning-off contrib and non-free
lists.
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2755 [22:32:35] <karlpinc> outoftime: Sounds like we need to see
all of your sources.list file(s). For somebody here to look at.
2756 [22:32:42] *** Quits: r4ss__ (~r4ss@replaced-ip ) (Client Quit)
2757 [22:33:23] <outoftime> karlpinc: there are only 3, 1 is
base.list and 2 more for sed /main/non-free/ and sed /main/contrib/
(pseudolang)
2758 [22:33:37] <SerajewelKS> outoftime: you never answered me,
did you run "apt update"
2759 [22:33:45] <karlpinc> akko: I'd definately look at the
logs, just because that's where you always want to look first.
By default almost everything goes in /var/log/syslog so see if
there's something in there. Is the timeing consistent? Always
about 30 seconds?
2760 [22:33:48] <SerajewelKS> because you may be using old copies
of the package lists
2761 [22:33:55] <outoftime> SerajewelKS: Thank you for help,
I'm done. Got 60.2
2762 [22:34:46] <akko> karlpinc: I can't read the logs if the
computer turn itself off, but yes, it is about 20-30 seconds
2763 [22:34:55] <karlpinc> akko: Perhaps you need non-free
firmware or something to make sure the fan is on?
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2765 [22:35:16] <karlpinc> akko: (Although you said the fan is
on....)
2766 [22:35:19] <akko> it is on, I can feel it (and hear it, quite
a lot)
2767 [22:35:20] <SerajewelKS> akko: you could take the disk out
and put it in another computer to examine the logs
2768 [22:35:32] <SerajewelKS> or scp them somewhere really quickly
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2770 [22:35:45] <Zr40> akko: does it also behave like this when
booted from the installer medium?
2771 [22:35:58] <akko> Zr40: no, it installed just fine
2772 [22:36:03] <jhutchins_wk> akko: That sounds like it could be
a software problem. Can you boot to a live image? One would guess
that it ran longer than that if you ran the installer on it.
2773 [22:36:20] <karlpinc> akko: If it's the hardware
detecting a problem (heat, etc) and shutting down then you might not
see anything in the logs.
2774 [22:36:21] <SerajewelKS> you could boot to the installer in
rescue mode, then dig around in the logs from there
2775 [22:36:23] *** Joins: Ceber (~cerberus@replaced-ip )
2776 [22:36:31] <jhutchins_wk> akko: So boot it to a live image
and check the logs from there.
2777 [22:36:46] *** Joins: Giotis (~Giotis@replaced-ip )
2778 [22:37:11] <SerajewelKS> kern.log may also be helpful if the
shutdown was initiated by the kernel, and it had enough time to
write a message about it before powering off
2779 [22:37:12] <akko> i'll do it
2780 [22:37:20] <Zr40> akko: and when it turns off, does it just
turn off instantly or is it like a normal shutdown that takes some
time?
2781 [22:37:24] <jhutchins_wk> akko: Have you tried booting to a
non-graphical mode?
2782 [22:37:24] <karlpinc> akko: Possibly also google your
specific hardware and the word "linux".
2783 [22:37:40] *** Joins: thiras (~thiras@replaced-ip )
2784 [22:38:16] <akko> I booted on rescue mode and apparently it
won't turn off now
2785 [22:38:31] <akko> unless it's just taking more time to
do it
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2788 [22:39:45] <akko> didn't turned off yet, strange
2789 [22:39:59] <jhutchins_wk> akko: Sounds like apci issues.
2790 [22:40:16] *** Kadigan_KSB is now known as Kadigan
2791 [22:40:16] <akko> what's that?
2792 [22:40:22] <Zr40> you mean acpi?
2793 [22:40:26] <jhutchins_wk> akko: If it's booted to a live
image, turning it off won't hurt anything.
2794 [22:40:38] <jhutchins_wk> Advanced Power Control Interface.
2795 [22:41:00] <Zr40> never heard of that
2796 [22:41:10] <akko> me neither
2797 [22:41:11] <greycat> !literal apci
2798 [22:41:11] <dpkg> "apci" is "<reply> see
acpi"
2799 [22:41:15] <greycat> !acpi
2800 [22:41:16] <dpkg> Advanced Configuration and Power Interface
(ACPI) is a power management interface that gives more control to
the BIOS, or horribly horribly broken, or "run this arbitrary
code in ring 0", or generally better than <APM>. For a
list of supported systems/BIOSes, see
replaced-url
2801 [22:41:16] <Zr40> but if you meant acpi, that's Advanced
Configuration and Power Interface
2802 [22:41:24] <akko> what should I do about it?
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2809 [22:43:34] <nyov> depends on your bios
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2817 [22:47:44] <nyov> or hardware in general, I guess. you could
try boot parameters "acpi=noirq", "acpi=off",
for radeon driver try "radeon.dpm=0", or search the net
for other possible quirks of your hardware
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2820 [22:48:30] <akko> nyov: i'm not really into bioses, but
I think it's something like a Phoenix bios or something like
that
2821 [22:48:46] <akko> how do I add a boot parameter tho?
2822 [22:48:47] <jhutchins_wk> There was also apci. And apic.
2823 [22:49:48] <annadane> a canal, panama
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2826 [22:51:11] <nyov> akko: you add it in
'/etc/default/grub', if you use grub. append it to the
line GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX
2827 [22:51:25] <nyov> and run 'update-grub' after
2828 [22:51:33] <jhutchins_wk> acpi added the control layer. Apic
is Advanced Programmable Interupt Controller.
2829 [22:51:37] <Zr40> jhutchins_wk: there's acpi and apic,
never heard of apci. Are you sure about that?
2830 [22:52:17] <greycat> I'm sure he's wrong.
2831 [22:52:32] <greycat> So is dpkg.
2832 [22:52:36] *** Joins: BlueByte (~walther@replaced-ip )
2833 [22:52:38] <nyov> and here is something about xhci issues on
uefi bios:
replaced-url
2834 [22:52:42] <akko> on /var/log/syslog on the last line there
is something talking about systemd-sleep
2835 [22:52:50] <jhutchins_wk> akko: Actually, rather than make
the permanent change that nyov suggested, you can edit the grub
command when you boot it. When the menu comes up, highlight the menu
item that boots normally and press "e".
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2838 [22:53:13] <nyov> ^ that's true, and faster for testing
iteration
2839 [22:53:39] <jhutchins_wk> Anybody have a factoid or link
about doing the grub edit?
2840 [22:53:58] <nyov> too lazy to search factoids %)
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2847 [22:56:19] <akko>
replaced-url
2848 [22:56:22] <akko> ^ what does that mean?
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2851 [22:57:08] <jhutchins_wk> Zr40: I can't seem to find
anthing older than apm, apci was pre-internet iirc.
2852 [22:58:32] *** Joins: Gi0 (~Gi0@replaced-ip )
2853 [22:58:32] <akko> also, about APIC
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2856 [22:59:27] <akko> when the kernel is loading it gives me a
message saying
2857 [23:00:01] <akko> "[ 0.084000] ..MP-BIOS bug: 8254 timer
not connected to IO-APIC
2858 [23:00:05] <akko> idk what that means
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2862 [23:00:44] <akko> but may have something to do with it
2863 [23:00:45] *** Quits: lmctl|^^ (~kl@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2864 [23:01:13] <jhutchins_wk> akko: I think that's
indicating a work-around for a known issue.
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2870 [23:01:49] <akko> jhutchins: what do you mean
2871 [23:02:27] <akko> also, aparently the computer does not shut
down completely as I was thinking, it looks like it goes to sleep
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2893 [23:11:07] <outoftime> akko: use `less` or `tail [-f]` if you
want to read logs
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2898 [23:13:36] <akko> i guess I should probably give up on this
computer
2899 [23:13:47] *** Joins: kion (~kion@replaced-ip )
2900 [23:13:54] <akko> Via really dislikes linux
2901 [23:14:45] <outoftime> akko: PC or laptop?
2902 [23:14:56] <akko> laptop
2903 [23:15:18] *** Joins: BCMM (~BCMM@replaced-ip )
2904 [23:15:21] <akko> a pretty old, cheap-ass one
2905 [23:15:36] <outoftime> akko: can you give manufacturer and
model?
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2908 [23:16:31] <akko> outoftime: you probably won't find any
documentation in english, as this is a local brand that we only have
here
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2911 [23:18:17] <outoftime> akko: year of manufactoring
2912 [23:19:18] <akko> I can't find anywhere the exact
informations, but my guess is around 2006-2007 as it originally came
with windows vista
2913 [23:20:16] <akko> and that was a stupid sentence, I hope you
could understand what I meant
2914 [23:20:29] <outoftime> akko:
replaced-url
2915 [23:20:49] <nyov> xD
2916 [23:20:55] <nyov>
replaced-url
2917 [23:21:05] <akko> is there any packages available for Debian
6? like a usable web browser or something like that?
2918 [23:21:08] <outoftime> akko: I'm not native english
speaker, I haven't even noticed
2919 [23:21:33] <akko> outoftime: me neither, I'm from
brazzzzzil, but as long as you understand what I mean, it is perfect
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2921 [23:21:56] <akko> i'll try to find a debian 6 iso
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2924 [23:22:28] <nyov> akko: you should just try a few kernel
args/boot options for various quirks
2925 [23:23:30] <akko> tried them all already
2926 [23:23:33] <akko> nothing worked
2927 [23:23:56] <nyov> well okay then. you were fast ;)
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2929 [23:24:18] <akko> I didn't meant I tried every kernel
args there are
2930 [23:24:31] <akko> but I think I did tried to do everything
related to this problem that I'm facing
2931 [23:24:31] <outoftime> akko: you have tried noted from
nyov's link abouve from redhat?
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2935 [23:24:52] <akko> wew sorry I missed that link
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2942 [23:26:35] <akko> Soul_Eater: haven't we met before?
2943 [23:26:59] <nyov> sometimes an older kernel might indeed fix
things, but not having security updates is quite a downside
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2948 [23:27:44] <outoftime> nyov: not having DE too
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2950 [23:27:57] *** Quits: sphenxes (~sphenxes@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2951 [23:28:14] <akko> outoftime: I pretended to go with something
like i3wm, so DE isn't a big deal to me tbh
2952 [23:29:22] *** Quits: s7r (~s7r@replaced-ip ) (Quit: by bye)
2953 [23:29:24] *** Quits: Neo_Chen (~Neo_Chen@replaced-ip ) (Quit: 神奇，永無止境的神奇)
2954 [23:29:36] <akko> nyov: well boi, I think that it worked
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2962 [23:31:29] <outoftime> akko: really?
2963 [23:31:42] <akko> yup
2964 [23:31:47] <akko> it didn't turned off yet
2965 [23:31:49] *** Quits: debsan (~debsan@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2966 [23:31:50] <tomreyn> is there a simple, text only, debian
compatible recovery iso, which will boot on uefi, and provides the
common commands (incl. mdadm, cryptsetup, lvm2)?
2967 [23:32:06] *** Quits: hwm4rgs (~hwm4rgs@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2968 [23:32:08] <akko> but now I'm having internet issues
2969 [23:32:53] <akko> ping debian.org prints "Temporary
failure in name resolution" and pinging 192.168.0.1 prints
"connect: network is unreachable"
2970 [23:33:04] *** Joins: hwm4rgs (~hwm4rgs@replaced-ip )
2971 [23:34:19] <outoftime> akko: I had not firmware for my
realtek ethernet controller that is why I was not able to connect
via PPPoE during installation, but I can do it via GUI after
installation.
2972 [23:34:31] *** Quits: jnavila (~jnavila@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2977 [23:34:59] *** Quits: bapophis__ (~belethapo@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2978 [23:35:02] <akko> outoftime: I opened this laptop earlier and
I think it has a realtek ethernet controller as well
2979 [23:35:05] *** Quits: Olipro (~Olipro@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2980 [23:35:33] <akko> what should I do?
2981 [23:35:35] <outoftime> akko: ethernet should be fine anyway
2982 [23:35:44] <akko> it isn't, doesn't work
2983 [23:35:53] <akko> lemme check if my cable is working as
it's supposed to
2984 [23:36:02] <outoftime> akko: try to manually set up ethernet
connection
2985 [23:36:23] *** Quits: RebelCoder (~RebelCode@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2989 [23:37:09] *** Quits: spacecase (~quassel@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2990 [23:37:26] <akko> outoftime: how do I do that?
2991 [23:37:33] *** Quits: hwm4rgs (~hwm4rgs@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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2993 [23:37:46] *** Quits: spacecase (~quassel@replaced-ip ) (Changing host)
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2996 [23:38:32] *** Quits: ntd (~ntd@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2997 [23:38:42] <n4dir> tomreyn: refracta has a nogui version, it
comes with quite some cli tools, sure with cryptstup, but i
don't know if it will boot from uefi. The distro grml comes to
my mind too, but i can't say anything actual about it.
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3002 [23:39:53] <gnew> Does anyone use funtoo on the debian side?
I can not seem to get him up. It says root lvm is not localized.
3003 [23:40:17] <Soul_Eater> akko,I don't remember
3004 [23:40:22] <akko> gnew: I used to be a gentoo user, but I
don't think I know what's that problem
3005 [23:40:22] *** Quits: afx237 (~afx237@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3006 [23:40:33] <akko> Soul_Eater: are you from vivaolinux?
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3010 [23:41:07] <akko> "<p>You are not allowed to
access this!</p>"
3011 [23:41:12] <Soul_Eater> akko, yes
3012 [23:41:13] <akko> why can't I access the debian wiki?
3013 [23:41:21] <akko> Soul_Eater: ent eh de la kkkk iai
3014 [23:41:42] <Soul_Eater> kkkk
3015 [23:41:52] *** Joins: vjacob (~vjacob@replaced-ip )
3016 [23:42:10] <akko> que coincidência te encontrar por
aqui, sabe algo sobre configurar manualmente a ethernet? kk
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3018 [23:44:59] <outoftime> akko:
replaced-url
3019 [23:45:18] *** Quits: winem_ (~quassel@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3020 [23:45:20] <akko> that's exactly what I was trying to
do, but..
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3022 [23:45:54] <akko>
replaced-url
3023 [23:46:08] <akko> debian wiki is mad at me
3024 [23:46:08] <outoftime> akko: following manual setup you can
find out where problem is to fix it
3025 [23:46:10] <akko> :(
3026 [23:46:34] <outoftime> akko: use webproxy
3027 [23:46:36] *** Quits: hwm4rgs (~hwm4rgs@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3028 [23:46:43] <outoftime> akko: or free vpn
3029 [23:47:00] *** Joins: hwm4rgs (~hwm4rgs@replaced-ip )
3030 [23:47:15] <akko> just used links with -socks-proxy lel
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