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• 21[00:21:59] <zodd> On Buster, openjdk11 is the default. I have a java app which uses deprecated libs from jdk8. How can I best add these libs? Preferably as .deb packages? (and find out which ones are needed (I assume I need to use jdeps for that)?
• 22[00:22:51] <randompleb> i think its openjdk-8-jdk?
• 23[00:23:25] <sney> debian doesn't distribute multiple java versions within one release.
• 24[00:23:35] <sney> best bet is probably through java-package:
• 25[00:23:38] <sney> !java-package
• 26[00:23:38] <dpkg> java-package (formerly mpkg-j2se, j2se-package) provides the make-jpkg utility for creating Debian packages from manually downloaded <Java> distributions; Oracle Java 6 (update >= 10) and Oracle Java 7 are currently supported. java-package is available for Debian 7 "Wheezy" and later systems in <contrib>. replaced-url
• 27[00:24:20] <zodd> I understood jdk8 is a LTS release, but it is old even for Debian standards
• 28[00:24:21] <somiaj> zodd: why does it have to be a .deb, java is fairly self contained
• 29[00:24:38] <somiaj> just extra java to /opt or somewhere, and setup JAVA_HOME approeprtly
• 30[00:24:58] <somiaj> maybe link the java binary to /usr/local/bin if you don't want to type out the full path.
• 31[00:25:02] <zodd> I like a single package management system. Simplifies maintainability.
• 32[00:25:14] <randompleb> Yes somiaj is right. Debian buster does not have openjdk-8 anymore in it's repo
• 33[00:25:23] <somiaj> we sney there
• 34[00:25:25] <somiaj> well
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• 36[00:26:00] <somiaj> zodd: I can see that, though I find the work of mataing my own deb often counteracts any advantange.
• 37[00:26:29] <zodd> I agree. Alternative would be a docker container
• 38[00:26:30] <somiaj> though I use to put java in /opt/java-version, have a lin /opt/java to the current version, then just updated the link when orcacle released security fixes
• 39[00:27:09] *** Parts: randompleb (75d6522a@replaced-ip) ()
• 40[00:27:10] <zodd> for the record: my inquiry is because of Jibri (add on to Jitsi))
• 41[00:27:23] <somiaj> I usually make the call in how self contained things are, I prefer to make .debs of things that use the FHS more.
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• 43[00:27:43] <ACHLO> replaced-url
• 44[00:30:32] <zodd> I could also add an enterprise java apt repo. Another thing I am not in favour of
• 45[00:31:27] <zodd> no neat solution so it seems. Pick your demon...
• 46[00:32:17] <somiaj> ACHLO: this is not a chanell to just join and share links.
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• 48[00:33:12] <somiaj> zodd: sounds like my exerience with java. Though I often only have a few machines, so the local install is fine, though keeping it updated, is a bit annoying with any method that dosen't have a repo.
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• 50[00:34:54] <zodd> basically it is crappy. The sw depends on a deprecated lib (kicked out @ jdk9)...
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• 76[01:05:56] <morph8hprom> I've recently installed Buster and am attempting to modify the grub bootloader's timeout. I've edited /etc/default/grub to show GRUB_TIMEOUT=-1 and afterwards ran grub-mkconfig as root, but it's still giving a 5 second timeout on boot.
• 77[01:07:01] <somiaj> run update-grub
• 78[01:07:34] <somiaj> (this parses all of the debian scripts for grub)
• 79[01:08:08] <morph8hprom> I receive this message Searching for GRUB installation directory ... found: /boot/grub
• 80[01:08:11] <morph8hprom> /usr/sbin/update-grub: line 116: grub: command not found
• 81[01:08:43] <morph8hprom> I've already ran apt-get update; apt-get install --reinstall grub
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• 83[01:09:05] <somiaj> that is strnage.
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• 85[01:10:05] <somiaj> there is no grub package, it is either grub-pc or grub-efi depending on legacy or uefi
• 86[01:10:48] <morph8hprom> right...but I haven't edited update-grub, so it should run as intended...one would think.
• 87[01:11:13] <morph8hprom> the only file I've changed is /etc/default/grub
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• 100[01:21:34] <morph8hprom> Well..I ran grub-mkconfig -o /boot/grub/grub.cfg which DID remove the timeout, however it also removed my Windows installation from the menu
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• 107[01:27:00] <morph8hprom> Sorry, tried running grub-mkconfig again without the -o option to see if it would fix things, but it did not. Any suggestions?
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• 117[01:33:15] <joze> how do i restar dhcpclient after lsof listening it after an upgrade?
• 118[01:33:51] <petn-randall> They likely installed grub-legacy on a UEFI system with "apt-get install --reinstall grub" and broke their system in the process.
• 119[01:34:48] <joze> systemctl restart networking.service is still listening stuff of it in lsof
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• 122[01:38:14] <jla20> suggestion for a password amager for use across debian (linux)/windows/android
• 123[01:38:31] <jla20> amager > manager
• 124[01:38:40] <annadane> keepassxc?
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• 126[01:38:45] <petn-randall> jla20: keepass2 works for me
• 127[01:38:56] <annadane> not all the keepass's are cross platform IIRC
• 128[01:38:59] <annadane> i know xc is
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• 132[01:40:40] <annadane> apt show tells me keepassx and keepassxc are and that if you're trying to choose between x and xc use x
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• 134[01:40:50] * annadane uses keepassxc for random password generation
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• 139[01:43:17] <morph8hprom> Is there no way to completely reset my GRUB? I'd rather not reinstall debian, although I guess it wouldn't be too much of a hassle...it just seems a bit unnecessary when everything was working fine previously.
• 140[01:45:04] <petn-randall> morph8hprom: 01:33 <petn-randa > They likely installed grub-legacy on a UEFI system with "apt-get install --reinstall grub" and broke their system in the process.
• 141[01:45:30] <morph8hprom> That's almost certainly what just happened
• 142[01:45:55] <petn-randall> morph8hprom: Did you install via legacy boot? If not, you need to reinstall grub-pc
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• 144[01:46:25] <petn-randall> morph8hprom: You'll need a live system to fix your installation. Or, if it's a fresh installation, just reinstall.
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• 146[01:47:10] <morph8hprom> petn-randall: Not sure what you mean by installing via legacy boot. I installed from a network install cd, pretty recently. My /home is on a separate partition, so a fresh install wouldn't hurt..it'd just take time.
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• 149[01:47:38] <jla20> Follow up: which, if any, cloud storage would you use for the pw database
• 150[01:48:41] <morph8hprom> Is there no way to force an install of grub rather than grub-legacy?
• 151[01:48:51] <petn-randall> morph8hprom: Legacy BIOS vs UEFI BIOS
• 152[01:49:15] <petn-randall> morph8hprom: There is, but since you hosed the boot, you can't fix it from within.
• 153[01:50:21] <petn-randall> morph8hprom: You'd need to boot a live system, mount your /, /home/, /boot/efi correctly, chroot into it, and the install grub-pc.
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• 158[01:52:27] <morph8hprom> petn-randall: Oh boy,that sounds...extensive
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• 160[01:52:54] <petn-randall> morph8hprom: Reinstalling might be safer, yes.
• 161[01:53:20] <petn-randall> morph8hprom: You might save some time via above if you know what you're doing.
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• 163[01:54:28] <morph8hprom> Unfortunately I don't although I would very much like to. Any chance there's some resources that could guide me along the way? Worst case scenario I just beef my boot partition and have to reinstall anyways, right?
• 164[01:55:37] <morph8hprom> Ok, probably not WORST case scenario, but I'm going to back everything up first anyways
• 165[01:55:43] <petn-randall> morph8hprom: I'd just reinstall then, it's easier.
• 166[01:56:02] <petn-randall> Plus you can't do anything wrong on that part.
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• 168[01:56:32] <morph8hprom> petn-randall: Got it. I'd rather not completely wreck the only PC I've got to work with right now.
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• 204[02:33:31] <a|3x> mkswap command not found
• 205[02:33:40] <a|3x> what happened to the swap utils in util-linux?
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• 207[02:33:54] <a|3x> swapon/swapoff is not there either
• 208[02:34:26] <petn-randall> a|3x: It's still in util-linux.
• 209[02:34:39] <petn-randall> a|3x: Are you root?
• 210[02:34:42] <a|3x> yes
• 211[02:34:59] <a|3x> i did reinstall on util-linux and it is still not finding it
• 212[02:35:19] <sney> !buster su
• 213[02:35:20] <dpkg> In buster, su no longer overrides PATH by default, requiring that you use "su -" or "su -l" for login shells (which is not really a new thing at all...). To approximate the previous behaviour, put "ALWAYS_SET_PATH yes" in /etc/login.defs. See replaced-url
• 214[02:35:31] <petn-randall> Ah yeah, that's probably the issue. ^
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• 216[02:35:57] <a|3x> terrible
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• 220[02:38:48] <a|3x> `su -` works but this is nefarious
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• 223[02:41:21] <petn-randall> Not really. One sets PATH correctly, the other doesn't.
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• 273[03:31:57] <oxek> How can I display keystrokes on screen for the purposes of making a video?
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• 277[03:37:03] <FuzzyByte> oxek: Write a keylogegr and then draw an oerlay with some graphics lib
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• 279[03:37:26] <FuzzyByte> A keylogger for X is easy
• 280[03:37:31] <FuzzyByte> If you use wayland
• 281[03:37:38] <FuzzyByte> You gotta get more creative
• 282[03:38:04] <technologov> hi all ! Is there an Open Source version of "Android Open Accessory (AOA)" API ?
• 283[03:38:05] <technologov> replaced-url
• 284[03:38:26] <FuzzyByte> technologov: Search it p on the interwebs
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• 287[03:41:36] <themill> ,i screenkey
• 288[03:41:37] <judd> Package screenkey (python, optional) in buster/amd64: screencast tool to display your keystrokes. Version: 0.9-2; Size: 41.4k; Installed: 211k; Homepage: replaced-url
• 289[03:41:41] <themill> oxek: ^^
• 290[03:42:21] <oxek> themill: that's the one! thanks
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• 292[03:42:55] <oxek> I hope if I get it from debian repos it will not be sending my keystrokes somewhere online
• 293[03:43:03] <themill> heh
• 294[03:44:09] <themill> ,i key-mon
• 295[03:44:10] <judd> Package key-mon (utils, optional) in buster/amd64: Utility to show live keyboard and mouse status. Version: 1.17-1; Size: 86.9k; Installed: 2763k; Homepage: replaced-url
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• 303[03:56:06] <oxek> themill: key-mon looks to be on the way out from debian... no packages for bullseye
• 304[03:56:41] <annadane> not necessarily
• 305[03:56:46] <themill> its homepage lists code.google.com so that's never a good sign
• 306[03:56:49] <annadane> testing packages do get removed and then reinstated
• 307[03:56:53] <annadane> depends on the package
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• 311[03:57:22] <themill> key-mon is currently Python 2 and Gtk2. That makes it a dead end.
• 312[03:58:13] <themill> it seems that screenkey is a fork that has done the necessary work to get to Python 3 and cairo.
• 313[03:58:43] <annadane> yeah, that's a more leading indicator
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• 329[04:12:40] <oxek> ,v fonts-font-awesome
• 330[04:12:43] <judd> Package: fonts-font-awesome on amd64 -- jessie: 4.2.0~dfsg-1; stretch: 4.7.0~dfsg-1; bullseye: 5.0.10+really4.7.0~dfsg-1; buster: 5.0.10+really4.7.0~dfsg-1; sid: 5.0.10+really4.7.0~dfsg-1
• 331[04:12:51] <oxek> what does the 'really' part mean in 5.0.10+really4.7.0~dfsg-1 ?
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• 333[04:15:28] <somiaj> what does the changelog say, it probably means it is 4.7 and not 5.0
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• 335[04:16:05] <somiaj> Revert debian package to fonts-font-awesome v4 as v5 has breaking changes. Closes: #899124.
• 336[04:16:06] <judd> Bug replaced-url
• 337[04:16:25] <somiaj> seems they upgraded, the upgrade didn't work, and to revert you can either use an epoh or do something like that
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• 339[04:17:34] <oxek> ok, that sounds like a smart way of solving it
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• 341[04:18:06] <themill> yay for changing a font enough to break things :S
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• 343[04:18:40] <somiaj> yea, epoch's would have been another approach, but they can sometimes cause more trouble than worth in the future, once you put on an epoch you can never remove it
• 344[04:19:01] <sponix> So you need to install the regular kernel and headers along side the "rt" ones ? All my dkms stuff is failing to build when I try just the rt and its headers
• 345[04:19:36] <somiaj> I don't think that will stop the dkms packages from failing to build against the rt kernels though.
• 346[04:20:04] <somiaj> Have you see if there is any reported bugs about this?
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• 348[04:21:37] <sponix> Error! Bad return status for module build on kernel: 5.4.0-0.bpo.4-rt-amd64 (x86_64)
• 349[04:21:37] <sponix> Consult /var/lib/dkms/nvidia-current/440.82/build/make.log for more information.
• 350[04:21:45] <sponix> somiaj: I will...
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• 352[04:23:16] <sponix> replaced-url
• 353[04:23:41] <sponix> 98% sure it is just user error on my part
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• 359[04:32:18] <somiaj> sponix: do you have the nvidia module from backports?
• 360[04:32:29] <somiaj> ,v nvidia-kernel-dkms
• 361[04:32:30] <judd> Package: nvidia-kernel-dkms on amd64 -- jessie/non-free: 340.106-1; stretch/non-free: 390.116-1; stretch-proposed-updates/non-free: 390.132-1; stretch-backports/non-free: 418.74-1~bpo9+1; buster/non-free: 418.113-1; buster-backports/non-free: 440.82-1~bpo10+1; bullseye/non-free: 440.82-1; sid/non-free: 440.82-1
• 362[04:32:35] <somiaj> yea looks like you do
• 363[04:33:19] <somiaj> I think the error was before the stuff you pasted.
• 364[04:34:02] <somiaj> though it could be that the nvidia driver is just not compadable with the rt kernels.
• 365[04:34:57] <somiaj> yea a quick google search basically confirms that the nvidia kernel is just not compadable with rt kernels and nvidia just doesn't seem to care.
• 366[04:35:03] <somiaj> arg nvidia module
• 367[04:35:44] <somiaj> looks like arch has some unoffical patches to make it work, but you might just be out of luck for any support from debian or nvidia for mixing the two.
• 368[04:35:50] <FuzzyByte> Nvidia: Hey yeah, screw compatibility and interoperability and be fucking lazy
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• 370[04:36:34] <somiaj> well rt kernels are custom non-offical kernels, why should nvidia support every additional set of kernel patches? Anyways arguments both ways.
• 371[04:36:54] <somiaj> though my info is old, unsure if rt has merged intot he main branch or not
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• 376[04:43:49] <sponix> somiaj: Thanks. I am going back to Liquorix kernel line. As it give me rt line performance, and actually works with Nvidia. Appreciate the input (as always)
• 377[04:44:09] <somiaj> sponix: seems the liquorix kernel's are rt and work with the nvidia driver, and so do arches, but debian's don't seem to patch them to do so.
• 378[04:44:42] <somiaj> yea, just seems this is not something that nvidia cares about, but it isn't to difficult to fix, just not something debian seems to care about for their real time kernels (they are non-free afterall)
• 379[04:45:13] <sponix> somiaj: fair enough. I was on Liquorix prior and it was working as I needed except audio issues -- LOL, and that turns out my headphones cable was half-way unplugged. Not actually the fault of the kernel whatsoever
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• 381[04:46:16] <FuzzyByte> sponix: That is not only a liquorix issue, that happens with any device with the 3.5mm jack plugged in that way.
• 382[04:46:26] <sponix> Glad to hear it wasn't just me doing something wrong. My brain is worn out right now
• 383[04:47:44] <sponix> FuzzyByte: Yeah.... felt pretty dumb when I noticed that. audio dropped on me mid game yesterday. I must have gotten too excited and given it a tug. Leave it to me to blame a kernel for user error :)
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• 453[06:25:09] <antto> why doesn't apt/synaptic kinda roughly check whether you have enough free space before doing stuff?
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• 457[06:31:53] <velix> I cannot remember which project is was, but there were "debian.fs" images someone on the web, which could be used as a source for chroots. Anyone with an idea, which is was?
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• 460[06:35:42] <velix> I am stupid, it was "rootfs". Thanks for help1
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• 468[06:41:08] <somiaj> antto: the check isn'
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• 470[06:41:40] <somiaj> antto: the check isn't trival, and could totally depend on how someone's file system is split up. It will tell you how much it has to download and how much space it will take, check yoruself.
• 471[06:42:25] <somiaj> velix: what does this provide? I've always just used debootstrap?
• 472[06:43:10] <velix> somiaj: Minbase. It just saves the time to download from the mirrors ;) Nice LXC/LXD or systemd-nspawn.
• 473[06:43:10] *** alexandros_ is now known as alexandros_c
• 474[06:43:22] <velix> somiaj: I'm also always using debootstrap. That's why I forgot about rootfs.
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• 476[06:44:17] <velix> Oh interesting, what's debspawn ?
• 477[06:44:29] <velix> uh nice
• 478[06:44:46] <velix> I've down the same thing manually up to now :)
• 479[06:44:57] <somiaj> velix: apt-cacher-ng is a way save time downloading as well
• 480[06:45:23] <velix> somiaj: Yeah, I'm using it a lot, when backporting stuff.
• 481[06:45:30] <somiaj> also pbuilder/sbuild have some nice tools (Though more for building) that keep track of packages, save chroots as .tar.gz of min systems.
• 482[06:45:42] <velix> No, really not. I've tried pbuilder/sbuild.
• 483[06:45:46] <velix> They're ... old ;)
• 484[06:45:50] <velix> They work, but they're not nice.
• 485[06:45:55] <velix> Not in 2020.
• 486[06:46:00] <velix> 2008/2009, yeah.
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• 488[06:46:26] <velix> Ha! "Do I need to set up apt-cacher-ng to use this efficiently?" - No, debspawn has it built in.
• 489[06:46:55] <velix> Oh, it uses zstd. Now this is what I call nice.
• 490[06:47:38] <velix> Setting up pbuiler/sbuild with good tuning is really a pain... overlayfs to tmpfs is a must, but nothing works out of the box.
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• 494[06:50:03] <velix> Wow, debspawn really is nice. Why didn't I know this?
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• 507[07:15:48] <annadane> velix, replaced-url
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• 509[07:17:07] <velix> annadane: But I'm not from the US ;)
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• 550[08:15:27] <Haohmaru> somiaj ..bout the free space and apt/synaptic.. i still don't know how to check for freespace.. other than running gparted
• 551[08:15:51] <Haohmaru> i know there were some commandline stuffz but i can never remember em
• 552[08:18:01] <Haohmaru> i sorta managed to "complete" the job by iteratively removing packages and retrying (multiple times)
• 553[08:18:30] <Haohmaru> eventually it finished and i rebooted.. but i gotta resize the / partition
• 554[08:18:43] <Haohmaru> need some of those packages back
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• 557[08:19:50] <Haohmaru> pcmanfm actually shows some freespace stats in the status bar but i'm not sure what it counts
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• 565[08:26:03] <xtifr> df = disc free
• 566[08:26:30] <Haohmaru> x_x
• 567[08:26:44] <Haohmaru> some of these commands look like my cat stepped on the keyboard
• 568[08:27:12] <ryouma> i learned unix by trying 1-letter commands, then 2-letter commands
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• 570[08:27:34] <ryouma> i literally sat down and tried those, then made guesses, then found out about man, then did man man
• 571[08:27:34] <Haohmaru> ryouma how many times did you break it? ;P~
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• 576[08:28:15] <ryouma> i had a talent for breaking (the software of) computers. i broke a 150kusd symbolics within a few minutes. but i didn't break unix.
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• 578[08:28:40] <ryouma> which is ironic because symbolics were designed better than unix ever was
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• 581[08:28:55] <Haohmaru> i don't know what that is
• 582[08:29:00] <ryouma> lisp machine
• 583[08:29:15] <Haohmaru> i only speak C++
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• 586[08:30:46] <Haohmaru> it's scary how if you randomly press some keys in a terminal - it might turn out to be a valid command
• 587[08:31:34] <Haohmaru> so i try to never leave terminals in focus or any terminals with root logged in
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• 600[08:49:32] <xtifr> the only one-letter commands I have are '[', 'w', and 'X'
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• 602[08:50:55] <ryouma> it also said "you have news" and "you have mail" so i tried those commands. then i tried readnews. then i read the entire usenet spool in one afternoon, skipping only over basketball.
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• 638[09:41:59] <otyugh> hey
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• 640[09:42:23] <sgo11> hi, are there any existing command line tools to find files based on extended attributes? something like `find . -xattr user.test` or `find . -xattr user.test=value`? thanks.
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• 651[09:55:27] <sgo11> ok. I found this cml can achieve what I want: `getfattr -m "user.test" -R .`
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• 675[10:32:18] <throwthecheese> How do I roll back to a previous xserver version?
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• 678[10:33:51] <throwthecheese> I tried to force the stretch xserver on my recent MX installation using synaptic but it reported breaks and failed to do the rollback
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• 681[10:35:25] <throwthecheese> I need to perform the downgrade, otherwise I would have to buy a new GPU as I want to install the 304.xx NVIDIA drivers
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• 713[11:12:07] <tlund> I broke someting. :( "apt-key list" output is empty. apt-get install --reinstall apt debian-keyring debian-archive-keyring did not help. next step?
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• 718[11:15:10] <pingfloyd> tlund: it probably didn't reconfigure
• 719[11:18:05] <tlund> it really feels like "apt-get install -t buster --reinstall apt dpkg debian-keyring debian-archive-keyring" should fix this? :)
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• 721[11:18:54] <tlund> pingfloyd: "dpkg-reconfigure apt dpkg debian-keyring debian-archive-keyring" ?
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• 725[11:20:07] <pingfloyd> tlund: try apt-get install debian-archive-keyring too
• 726[11:20:44] <pingfloyd> that's the package you mainly need for the keys
• 727[11:21:27] <pingfloyd> debian-keyring is a larger set of keys beyond basic usage
• 728[11:21:51] <tlund> ok, i solved it!
• 729[11:21:58] <pingfloyd> which did?
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• 731[11:22:37] <tlund> apparently, apt-get is dropping privs, and /etc/apt cant md 0700 :)
• 732[11:22:47] <tlund> cant be 0700
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• 735[11:23:50] <tlund> /tmp/apt.24795:setresuid(120, 120, 120) = 0
• 736[11:23:50] <tlund> /tmp/apt.24797:setresuid(120, 120, 120) = 0
• 737[11:25:04] <pingfloyd> that dir is 755 by default
• 738[11:25:16] <pingfloyd> both ownerships are root
• 739[11:25:34] <pingfloyd> drwxr-xr-x 8 root root 4096 Mar 4 20:31 /etc/apt/
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• 741[11:26:28] <tlund> pingfloyd: correct.
• 742[11:26:40] <tlund> on this machine, it had been changed.
• 743[11:26:47] <pingfloyd> how come?
• 744[11:27:30] <pingfloyd> if there's no explanation for the changes, it's a bit suspicious in regards to compromise.
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• 747[11:28:04] <pingfloyd> like asking yourself, is a process changing them, and which one?
• 748[11:28:20] <pingfloyd> and why is it changing it? Is this malicious, or some poor programming?
• 749[11:28:49] <FuzzyByte> tlund: Try running something like LOKI if you suspect you are infected with some kind of rootkit
• 750[11:28:57] <tlund> pingfloyd: it was changed as part of locking down the system, 10+ years ago
• 751[11:29:03] <tlund> no, no, nothing like that :)
• 752[11:29:28] <pingfloyd> ok, so it makes sense why it's non-default
• 753[11:29:34] <tlund> now it is owned by _apt.root, and everything works fine :)
• 754[11:29:52] <tlund> but I had to use strace to diagnose it, looking for -EPERM
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• 756[11:30:07] <tlund> would have been nice of apt to say "btw, I cant read any of the files i need"
• 757[11:30:14] <pingfloyd> that's the learning lesson here though. That some processes and programs may need perms a certain way
• 758[11:30:20] <tlund> sure
• 759[11:30:22] <pingfloyd> or have permission requirements
• 760[11:30:42] <pingfloyd> and those may be configurable through a config file or during compilation
• 761[11:31:20] <pingfloyd> so you might look into that if you want the tighter security
• 762[11:31:32] <pingfloyd> see if it is doable
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• 765[11:33:12] <tlund> as I said, everything works fine now. I understand that I am doing something that is not 100% supported, and I just said that it would have been nice if the tools told me it could not read its files
• 766[11:33:26] <tlund> this has worked fine since at last debian 5 (possibly earlier)
• 767[11:33:45] <pingfloyd> assumptions and design can change a lot between releases
• 768[11:33:46] <tlund> and while upgrading debian 8 -> 9 -> 10 now, it suddenly broke. I think in the 8 -> 9 step.
• 769[11:34:04] <tlund> again, I am still going to assume ANY program will complain when it cant read its config file
• 770[11:34:05] <pingfloyd> sometimes these become the lose ends when upgrade from release to release via dist-upgrade for example.
• 771[11:34:07] <tlund> since 99% of them do.
• 772[11:34:15] <FuzzyByte> tlund: This is one reason I like rolling distros
• 773[11:34:34] <FuzzyByte> Upgrading is trivial
• 774[11:35:05] <pingfloyd> it is what it is. But I take the approach of keeping systems as default as possible. I stray away from that as a last resort, but some situations are a whole different ballgame. For example, when tight security is a priority with said system.
• 775[11:35:47] <pingfloyd> FuzzyByte: you can have rolling release with debian (testing and unstable), it's just not officially supported.
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• 777[11:36:45] <pingfloyd> at a certain point, officially supported isn't going to matter once you're very self-sufficient at fixing issues. But like the old saying in debian goes, "if you break it, you get to keep both pieces"
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• 783[11:39:02] * tlund <- fixed his issue, and files are still not readable by random users.
• 784[11:39:13] <tlund> still mad apt-get doesn't tell me it cant read its config. :)
• 785[11:39:30] <tlund> upgrading to buster now, everything gooing smoothly
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• 820[12:08:14] <xtifr> before VMs became so common, debian devs almost all ran unstable, because you had to in order to make up-to-date packages for upload. so unstable was *very* reliable
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• 823[12:10:59] <xtifr> still mostly is. I suspect few official rolling release distros do much better.
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• 829[12:15:15] <tlund> i ran unstable on my primary laptop for 10 years
• 830[12:15:20] <tlund> then backed down to testing
• 831[12:15:29] <tlund> and now i am boring and run stable with backports
• 832[12:16:26] <xtifr> been running unstable or testing for close to 20 yrs, myself
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• 837[12:19:07] <xtifr> but stable with backports is certainly a fine system :)
• 838[12:19:23] <Haohmaru> i think initially i went for debian 8 testing, but then i figured it's not for me and i've been on stable since 9, solid, on multiple comput0rz
• 839[12:19:35] <Haohmaru> ..with backpr0tz of course
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• 842[12:22:53] <xtifr> having a package system at *all* is a huge improvement over what we had before Debian and RH. so I'm easy to please. :)
• 843[12:23:48] <Haohmaru> no idea bout RH
• 844[12:23:59] <miskatonic> I could live without a package system, as long as enough documentation is available
• 845[12:24:11] <Haohmaru> but i know about setup.exe x_x
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• 848[12:25:53] <miskatonic> aptitude makes install things just faster
• 849[12:26:14] <Haohmaru> i use synaptic
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• 853[12:29:30] <miskatonic> I remember having installed from hundreds of floppies
• 854[12:30:02] <Haohmaru> i remember every keyboard and mouse had a floppy disk in it
• 855[12:30:37] <miskatonic> the good old rtimes
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• 884[12:56:02] <brutser> i got network-manager-gnome installed, if i switch my network cable, or just in general switch to another network, how can i force network manager to try and get a new ip?
• 885[12:56:22] <brutser> right now it stays on the old network, until i manually disconnect and reconnect
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• 900[13:06:13] <MichaZ> Hi! Is there some way to completely get a fresh install of Akonadi/MySQL? I managed to break my setup somehow so badly I can't repair it anymore. I tried already --reinstall for mysql-common and akonadi, but not enough it seems.
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• 903[13:07:39] <nkuttler> MichaZ: usually purge, and then reinstall, make sure though they leave no data around
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• 905[13:07:53] <MichaZ> hm, tried that already
• 906[13:07:58] <nkuttler> i think mysql won't delete databases on purge, so you need to clean up yourself
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• 908[13:08:13] <MichaZ> I tried that as well already :-(
• 909[13:08:43] <nkuttler> which commands did you type, which are you typing, and which errors do you get?
• 910[13:08:54] <MichaZ> (assuming it's ~/.local/share/akonadi/db_data)
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• 913[13:09:52] <MichaZ> I just removed the folder re-created it later with: mysql_install_db --force --datadir=$HOME/.local/share/akonadi/db_data
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• 915[13:10:26] <MichaZ> The error I get when I try to start akonadiserver now (ak start) is: replaced-url
• 916[13:11:10] <MichaZ> And I got in the original mess following this website: replaced-url
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• 918[13:12:08] <MichaZ> (and before that a few years of constantly trying to get broken akonadi database working again with lots of different problems, just wanted a fresh start now)
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• 926[13:19:06] <MichaZ> The purge and reinstall commands I tried: replaced-url
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• 928[13:20:38] <MichaZ> Can try more - basically - I just want get back to a clean & new & working akonadi setup somehow.
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• 932[13:22:56] <MichaZ> And for info - it's Debian 10 stable.
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• 955[14:19:24] <miskatonic> when disabling a systemd service, I often get warnings stating that LSB settings have been overridden. Is that a bad thing?
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• 982[14:43:45] <jmcnaught> miskatonic: can you show an example?
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• 988[14:47:28] <miskatonic> for example insserv: warning: current start runlevel(s) (empty) of script `bind9' overrides LSB defaults (2 3 4 5).
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• 991[14:48:39] <jmcnaught> It's just a warning so it's probably fine. Are you noticing any problems? Did the service disable?
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• 993[14:49:05] <miskatonic> I only see that after a reboot
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• 995[14:49:43] <miskatonic> I mean, only after a reboot I notice whether a service is diabled or not. Usually it is diabled afterwards
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• 998[14:51:32] <jmcnaught> 'systemctl status <unit>' should tell you if it's disabled or not.
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• 1005[14:55:31] <miskatonic> ok, it is disabled
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• 1034[15:27:50] <maxtim> I just had a quick question about permissions. In most (if not all, I don't actually know) Linux distros, you have user:group schema. This prevents other users from accessing a user's data. What's to stop an attacker from spoofing a username/group to access that data?
• 1035[15:29:05] <karlpinc> maxtim: Passwords are typically used.
• 1036[15:29:09] <julienth37> maxtim: that nto the user but the auth toward system that define with user:group you use
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• 1038[15:29:21] <julienth37> s/nto/not/
• 1039[15:29:35] <maxtim> lol this isn't vim
• 1040[15:29:52] <maxtim> ah I get it tho
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• 1042[15:31:09] <maxtim> and, in Debian at least, passwords are stored on a hash table (?) with salt (?)... trying to get this right in my head so I can explain to others
• 1043[15:31:31] <FuzzyByte> maxtim: That's good
• 1044[15:32:06] <karlpinc> maxtim: Passwords are stored hashed in /etc/shadow. Of course there are many other authentication methods to choose from.
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• 1046[15:32:08] <FuzzyByte> A hash is a one-way function that produces the same outputs for the same inputs, but can not be reversed
• 1047[15:32:57] <FuzzyByte> A salt is a value that is app-/prepended to the password and stored with the hash to make rainbow tables useless
• 1048[15:33:06] <FuzzyByte> karlpinc: Not in /etc/shadow anymore?
• 1049[15:33:13] <FuzzyByte> passwd*
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• 1051[15:34:19] <maxtim> and that's where 128/256 bit encoding comes into play, correct?
• 1052[15:34:35] <karlpinc> FuzzyByte: ?
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• 1054[15:34:55] <julienth37> s/vim/sed/ ;) maxtim
• 1055[15:35:44] <karlpinc> maxtim: There are various hash functions.
• 1056[15:36:20] <julienth37> FuzzyByte: /etc/passwd contain user id, home, ...
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• 1059[15:36:39] <maxtim> yeah, googled that, reading about it now... this and how kerberos works are very interesting bits
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• 1064[15:40:06] <maxtim> in /etc/shadow is username:Hashed_Password(?):an_octect(?)_for_something:idk:idk:idk...
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• 1066[15:40:22] <greycat> you know there are man pages that document these files, right?
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• 1068[15:40:27] <maxtim> lol
• 1069[15:40:29] <maxtim> i do
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• 1071[15:40:48] <greycat> "man 5 shadow" for this particular one
• 1072[15:41:03] <FuzzyByte> Somehow I was sure tht passwords were used to be stored in /etc/passwd
• 1073[15:41:04] <hansh_> i have a ram-constrained Debian 9 VM where i need a GUI, wishing to use minimal amount of ram for the GUI, i installed it like this: apt install --no-install-recommends lxde-core lxde-common; apt install lxdm xserver-xorg xserver-xorg-video-vmware lxterminal policykit-1;
• 1074[15:41:16] <greycat> FuzzyByte: their hashes were. And still can be.
• 1075[15:41:17] <hansh_> and it works fine, creating a very lightweight desktop system, but if i leave it alone for an hour or so, x11vnc server will only display a black screen, and i can't make the screen non-black; i'm GUESSING it's a broken screensaver system trying to run that makes it black, but i'm not sure about that, any ideas?
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• 1077[15:41:34] <FuzzyByte> greycat: So I was only partally wrong.
• 1078[15:41:37] <hansh_> (the only way i've found thus far to fix the black screen is to reboot it)
• 1079[15:41:39] <maxtim> thanks greycat
• 1080[15:41:56] <FuzzyByte> hansh_: apt purge xscreensaver ?
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• 1082[15:42:53] <hansh_> Package 'xscreensaver' is not installed, so not removed
• 1083[15:43:29] <hansh_> this didn't match anything installed either, apt purge "*screensaver*"
• 1084[15:44:31] <FuzzyByte> I don't know.
• 1085[15:44:56] <FuzzyByte> apt list | grep save
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• 1087[15:46:47] <hansh_> replaced-url
• 1088[15:47:20] <flayer> the insanity of it all
• 1089[15:47:46] <FuzzyByte> It seems you have 27 screensavers installed.
• 1090[15:48:23] <greycat> is "apt list" showing what's installed, or what's available?
• 1091[15:48:28] <hansh_> i think it's just the list of *save* that apt knows about, rather than what's installed =/
• 1092[15:49:26] <karlpinc> hansh_: What happens if you switch to a vt?
• 1093[15:49:27] <karlpinc> !vt
• 1094[15:49:28] <dpkg> it has been said that vt is Virtual Terminal, like the console; change VTs using Alt+Left/Right or Alt+F1, Alt+F2 etc. To get from X to a VT, use Ctrl+Alt+F1 (and Alt+F7 to get back, most likely). You can also use "chvt" to switch VT. VT is also used to mean Intel VT-x or VT-d (virtualization support; the AMD counterpart is called AMD-V or Pacifica), ask me about <xve>.
• 1095[15:49:30] <MichaZ> Phew. I made a bit progress with my akonadi troubles. But stuck again. The problem is a SQL command in setup which creates 2 TIMESTAMP tables. That was not possible with MySQL 5.5 (would work with 5.6). It would work with MariaDB (which is 15.1 and can do that since 10.0). But... how do I get akonadi to use mariadb instead of mysql?
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• 1097[15:51:28] <MichaZ> The command it tries to run sees to be the "CREATE TABLE PimItemTable" one in here: replaced-url
• 1098[15:51:28] <hansh_> MichaZ, many applications, unless explicitly designed to check what server type it connects to, doesn't know/doesn't notice/doesn't care if you connect it to MySQL or MariaDB, they use the exact same protocol
• 1099[15:51:29] <FuzzyByte> Referring to vts as ttys makes stuff easier
• 1100[15:52:05] <karlpinc> FuzzyByte: It might if vts were the same as ttys, but they're not.
• 1101[15:52:06] <MichaZ> hansh_, the problem is mysql version on debian stable does not support the command needed for the akonadi setup
• 1102[15:52:17] <MichaZ> hansh_, it would need 5.6 but stable has 5.5
• 1103[15:52:42] <FuzzyByte> karlpinc: What now?
• 1104[15:52:50] <FuzzyByte> Please explain
• 1105[15:53:25] <greycat> !tty
• 1106[15:53:25] <dpkg> extra, extra, read all about it, tty is an abbreviation for "teletype". More generically, it refers to any terminal or terminal emulator.
• 1107[15:53:29] <karlpinc> MichaZ: MariaDB has replaced MySQL on debian. ("Replaced" is not exactly the right word, but...)
• 1108[15:54:02] <MichaZ> karlpinc, yeah - but I seem to have both installed. And it seems to use MySQL. Don't know why - maybe because I just updated this system since Debian 7 or so.
• 1109[15:54:05] <FuzzyByte> dpkg: Ah. I only ever see vts referred to as ttys, though that might make this even more abiguous, but thanks
• 1110[15:54:06] <dpkg> FuzzyByte: You are person #1 to send an unparseable request
• 1111[15:54:17] <FuzzyByte> Oh.
• 1112[15:54:21] <FuzzyByte> Welp
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• 1114[15:54:32] <greycat> MichaZ: if you only used mysql from Debian, mariadb will have replaced it
• 1115[15:55:13] <MichaZ> greycat, if I type mysqld --version I get: mysqld Ver 5.5.62-0+deb8u1 for debian-linux-gnu on x86_64 ((Debian))
• 1116[15:55:33] <MichaZ> greycat, if I type mariadb --version I get: mariadb Ver 15.1 Distrib 10.3.22-MariaDB, for debian-linux-gnu (x86_64) using readline 5.2
• 1117[15:55:35] <greycat> so you've still got some jessie version of mysql sitting around? weird. maybe you didn't fully upgrade your system to stretch.
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• 1121[15:56:25] <MichaZ> maybe? I just updated following docu back then... hard to tell what it really does :-)
• 1122[15:57:05] <MichaZ> I didn't want to keep it. So if I can manage to replace it completely somehow I'd like to.
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• 1125[15:57:57] <MichaZ> I guess I could manually create links to replace the binary - not sure if _that_ is a good idea (sounds bad)
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• 1128[15:58:14] <greycat> Is the "mysql-server" package installed?
• 1129[15:58:41] <MichaZ> yes
• 1130[15:59:05] <karlpinc> MichaZ: You might go back and look at the older release notes which talk about how mariadb replaces mysql. There's probably something in there that says what you're supposed to do to transition.
• 1131[15:59:07] <MichaZ> oh cool - if I remove that it offers to install mariadb-server
• 1132[15:59:13] <greycat> according to the wiki, mysql-server should have brought in mariadb
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• 1134[15:59:26] <greycat> ,depends mysql-server --release stretch
• 1135[15:59:27] <judd> Package mysql-server in stretch/amd64 -- depends: default-mysql-server.
• 1136[15:59:34] <greycat> ,depends default-mysql-server --release stretch
• 1137[15:59:35] <judd> Package default-mysql-server in stretch/amd64 -- depends: mariadb-server-10.1.
• 1138[15:59:46] <MichaZ> thanks!
• 1139[15:59:54] <MichaZ> that replaced it with mariadb
• 1140[15:59:58] <karlpinc> MichaZ: Of course that was then. If you're on something newer then there may be different problems switching.
• 1141[16:00:52] <MichaZ> and akonadi setup continues now! (to the next error, but one step at a time ^-^).
• 1142[16:00:59] <miskatonic> do mariadb clients work with mysql-servers running on remote machines?
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• 1144[16:01:30] <karlpinc> hansh_: How much RAM? (I've got a box with 1G. Swapped out the slow patter and replaced it with an SDD and it runs fine using xfce.)
• 1145[16:01:41] <karlpinc> hansh_: Running buster.
• 1146[16:02:08] <MichaZ> Probably I did something wrong on update to prevent mariadb replacing mysql back then. Anyway -this helped a lot.
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• 1149[16:04:02] <MichaZ> *sigh* maybe that even caused the akonadi troubles in first place and I wouldn't have needed to try and clean that up.
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• 1203[17:06:09] <jhutchins> MichaZ: Make sure you're doing regular backups with mysqldump or some other backup utility.
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• 1235[17:32:43] <BalooRJ> hello...I'm having an issue with an AppImage program called "Ripcord." It's crashing right on startup. I'm getting this error.
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• 1238[17:33:56] <BalooRJ> posted the error in #flood. Program opens and immediately closes on startup. Dev says this is because of a differing version in OpenSSL in Debian? replaced-url
• 1239[17:34:08] <BalooRJ> Curious to know if anyone has any thoughts on how possibly to fix this. Much appreciated, thank you.
• 1240[17:34:46] <greycat> Does the program's README or INSTALL file tell you what version of libssl you need to build it?
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• 1243[17:37:48] <greycat> If it needs libssl 1.0, you can install the libssl1.0-dev and libssl1.0.2 package from stretch, on buster. Or on stretch.
• 1244[17:38:36] <BalooRJ> Trying to see if there is a Readme or Install file that will state that for me, thanks for that. I'm running Buster.
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• 1274[17:59:01] <BalooRJ> greycat - To install those packages, would I have to add the stretch repositories?
• 1275[17:59:28] <marduk> hello, I have a question. one of my graphical applications fails, when I start it from terminal I see a lot of errors, I want to redirect all the output to the file. I do it like this tuxguitar>>tg.txt and again I see all the errors on the screeen but the file is empty... what is the proper way to do this?
• 1276[17:59:28] <greycat> That's one way. You could also just download the two individual packages.
• 1277[17:59:58] <greycat> marduk: tuxguitar >>tg.txt 2>&1
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• 1280[18:02:44] <marduk> greycat thanx, that worked
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• 1288[18:11:33] <shibboleth> when using ssh as a socks proxy rather than port forwarding, can i limit which ips the client can communicate with?
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• 1294[18:14:56] <marduk> now I have it here replaced-url
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• 1299[18:18:02] <untakenstupidnic> i have uploaded a package to PyPI from python2, specified in setup.py that it is python2, yet not only it's installable from pip3 but also it has replaced my shebang with #!/usr/bin/python3 :|
• 1300[18:18:28] <untakenstupidnic> and ot doesn't run
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• 1305[18:21:56] <untakenstupidnic> how to prevent that?
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• 1323[18:34:22] <ArsenArsen> can I download a debian chroot somewhere like I can do with void, gentoo, and others?
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• 1325[18:35:02] <ArsenArsen> oh waait, gentoos repos have debootstrap
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• 1338[18:44:55] <ThothCastel> KDE on debian Buster not showing file transfer progress with Dolphin. I started a transfer of about 7GB as a test but now I am unable to see its real progresss - and neither able to interrupt/cancel the transfer. Is there a way to see the status of the transfer?... and how to enable the little dialog of transfer please?
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• 1342[18:48:00] <antto> i need to resize my root partition, can i do it by running a debian netinst flash stick and going to the partitioning step?
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• 1344[18:49:34] <ThothCastel> antto: you will probably be better off by using a tool called gparted
• 1345[18:49:39] <ThothCastel> or something alike
• 1346[18:49:59] <antto> i know, i'd normally use a debian live image and put gparted on it
• 1347[18:50:02] <ThothCastel> create a usb stick and boot from it
• 1348[18:50:17] <antto> but i plugged this random flash stick in and it looks like it has debina9 netinst
• 1349[18:50:17] <ThothCastel> but make sure to back up your data first
• 1350[18:51:11] <ThothCastel> antto: I have never tried it - worth a try I guess - BUT I think it will erase your partition as it may be dealt with as if it was a new install
• 1351[18:51:22] <ThothCastel> which is probably not what you are trying to achieve
• 1352[18:51:33] <ThothCastel> but first of all - back up all important data before hand
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• 1356[18:53:52] <mesaboogie> gparted is on many distros install iso, plus systemrescurcd has it.
• 1357[18:54:04] <mesaboogie> systemrescuecd*
• 1358[18:54:47] <mesaboogie> boot to a live iso then resize with gparted. (backup first)
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• 1363[18:57:32] <marduk> someone could suugest anything with these errors on tuxgutar? replaced-url
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• 1365[19:03:19] <JPT> marduk: Reading this, there are several things that may or may not be connected. 1) TuxGuitar seems to use glib in a way that does not work properly. 2) You're missing the /dev/sequencer device file, which is probably for midi playback? 3) The Java code you're running does not seem to be compatible with a gtk library that it is based on.
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• 1368[19:03:55] <JPT> Perhaps your version of TuxGuitar is just too old/new to be compatible with the libraries present in your runtime environment.
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• 1370[19:05:04] <JPT> That's about all i can read out of that pastebin. :|
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• 1373[19:07:40] <marduk> JPT: I`ve just installed it, and I used it before on this machine, I installed it like I allways did before, and I always used debian. maybe it give some clue
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• 1376[19:09:08] * greycat wonders if google has a filter for "only show me results from the last 3 years"
• 1377[19:09:25] <greycat> 'cause searching for "debian /dev/sequencer" shows some *really* old stuff
• 1378[19:09:43] <JPT> I can guess a little bit. The GLib-CRITICAL errors might be really bad or not so bad, i'm not sure about that yet. Since it repeats a bunch of times, it might be less critical than the log says.
• 1379[19:10:06] <JPT> The /dev/sequencer device may be optional if you just want to use the program without midi capabilities.
• 1380[19:10:35] <greycat> Since it says "guitar" in the application name, I'm guessing it's important.
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• 1383[19:11:06] <JPT> However, it looks like TuxGuitar is written in java and it is unable to call a method within its gtk library. So the "bridge" between the java program and the gtk library it is based on is not working. Without that, it won't work at all.
• 1384[19:11:16] <marduk> for me it is important
• 1385[19:11:29] <greycat> Apparently there *used* to be a /dev/sequencer node that was created by the snd-seq-oss module. Which no longer exists. Now there's a snd-seq-midi module, and maybe some nodes that can be created in /dev/snd/ ?
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• 1388[19:11:56] <greycat> Also yeah, as soon as I see Java it's like ... *cringe*, hands up, step back.
• 1389[19:12:42] <JPT> TuxGuitar ~1.2.x is packaged in various debian packages. According to their sourceforge page, Version 1.5.4 is the current one.
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• 1392[19:12:56] <JPT> replaced-url
• 1393[19:13:10] <JPT> Perhaps it is a good idea to try and get a release from there and try to run it.
• 1394[19:13:13] <greycat> ,v tuxguitar
• 1395[19:13:14] <judd> Package: tuxguitar on amd64 -- jessie: 1.2-20; stretch: 1.2-22; buster: 1.2-23; bullseye: 1.2-25; sid: 1.2-25
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• 1397[19:13:50] <marduk> I have I386
• 1398[19:13:55] <greycat> if it's packaged, you could just dive straight into bugs.debian.org/tuxguitar and see what people have reported
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• 1402[19:15:59] <JPT> Looks like TuxGuitar version 1.2.x is from ~2009-2010.
• 1403[19:16:12] <JPT> There's already an issue in which the more recent version is being discussed
• 1404[19:16:24] <JPT> replaced-url
• 1405[19:16:38] <judd> Bug replaced-url
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• 1415[19:29:16] <marduk> reading bug reports did not gave me any idea... maybe install from somewhere, not from apt, but I`m not shure that it is good
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• 1426[19:36:45] <marduk> looks like bug reports are older than I last time I used tuxguitar... I have no idea what the propblem could be
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• 1429[19:37:25] <JPT> marduk: After seeing the version numbers and how old the debian package contents are, it is probably a good idea to try a more recent version from the projects website. Within 10 years, a lot has changed.
• 1430[19:37:28] <greycat> well, you either try the version in debian, guided by debian's bug reports if any... or you try the version from upstream
• 1431[19:38:08] <greycat> I've never even heard of this package before. I don't think it gets a lot of testing.
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• 1434[19:40:40] <marduk> tuxguitar is popular, not as much as guitarpro, but it is esential tool for musician
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• 1436[19:44:29] <marduk> ok, I will try to search for newer versions.. that`s all I can do, because java exceptions for me is like "hands off, this is not for you" :D
• 1437[19:45:04] <greycat> If it's "popular", just ask the other people who use it.
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• 1439[19:45:34] <greycat> I was hoping that any common-knowledge workarounds would be in a bug report.
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• 1445[19:48:25] <marduk> so came, everyone I know use windows and guitarpro, I gues everyone have a pirate versions. cruel truth
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• 1448[19:50:37] <marduk> as with photoshop and gimp
• 1449[19:51:12] <oxek> ,checkbackport bat
• 1450[19:51:23] <oxek> anyone have an easy way of backporting bat to debian stable?
• 1451[19:51:27] <judd> Backporting package bat in sid→buster/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: dh-cargo (>= 18), librust-ansi-colours-1+default-dev, librust-ansi-term-0.12+default-dev (>= 0.12.1-~~), librust-atty-0.2+default-dev (>= 0.2.13-~~), librust-clap-2+color-dev (>= 2.33-~~), librust-clap-2+default-dev (>= 2.33-~~), librust-clap-2+suggestions-dev (>= 2.33-~~), librust-clap-2+wrap-help-dev (>=
• 1452[19:51:28] <judd> 2.33-~~), librust-console-0.8+default-dev, librust-content-inspector-0.2+default-dev (>= 0.2.4-~~), librust-dirs-2+default-dev, librust-git2-0.10-dev, librust-lazy-static-1+default-dev (>= 1.4-~~), librust-shell-words-0.1+default-dev, librust-syntect-3+dump-create-dev (>= 3.2.1-~~), librust-syntect-3+dump-load-dev (>= 3.2.1-~~), librust-syntect-3+parsing-dev (>= 3.2.1-~~), librust-syntect-3+yaml-load- (1 more message)
• 1453[19:51:47] <greycat> that looks like a "no" to me
• 1454[19:53:11] <oxek> will it work if I manually download replaced-url
• 1455[19:53:22] <sney> I wonder if a bunch of those librust packages are from the same source, though. if you backport librust* and dh-cargo it might work
• 1456[19:53:29] <sney> oxek: no, you won't have the dependencies.
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• 1459[19:54:14] <GNU\colossus> "cat(1) clone with syntax highlighting and git integration"
• 1460[19:54:31] <GNU\colossus> *rolls eyes*
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• 1462[19:54:50] <oxek> it has automatic paging, automatic detection of binary files, etc.
• 1463[19:55:07] <oxek> though I know bats are not very popular right now
• 1464[19:55:23] <oxek> and people do like their cats
• 1465[19:55:29] <marduk> crack, keygens... I forgot about this more than 10 years before
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• 1469[19:57:30] <marduk> linux is the best, debian is even better
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• 1475[20:00:46] <marduk> linux is the beast on older machines :D
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• 1482[20:04:41] <flayer> i don't know what i would've done without debian for these past 15 years
• 1483[20:05:08] <dvs> starve!
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• 1488[20:07:34] <marduk> debian - horosho
• 1489[20:07:49] <xormor> I like Debian, too. I think I started using Debian a lot about the year of 2009 or 2010. 10-11 years ago. Before that there were others, like Xandros and Ubuntu, and Mandrake (it was by that name back then) and Red Hat, and some DOS-Linux (PC-Linux) that ran out of the MS-DOS shell, with LINUX.BAT or such, I think it was based on Slackware. Ubuntu is based on Debian. I think Xandros was based on Debian, too. I mostly use Debian or based on Debian.
• 1490[20:07:49] <xormor> Not I use plain vanilla stable buster 10. MX Linux was not good enough for me. I noticed some oddities how the system behaved under it. Elementary OS was not good enough - had graphics driver problems.
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• 1492[20:08:20] <marduk> ne nado pechalitsa, u nas estj debian
• 1493[20:08:34] <xormor> Mandrake was based on RH, and then it changed its name to Mandriva. Is there still Mandriva? Is Manjaro related?
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• 1495[20:09:05] <xormor> I used Linux Mint, too.
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• 1535[20:42:23] <maxtim> I set some env vars in .bash_profile (& .profile), but bash isn't using those vars when I logout/login or source .bashrc. what could I be doing incorrectly?
• 1536[20:42:31] <greycat> !dotfiles
• 1537[20:42:32] <dpkg> [dotfiles] replaced-url
• 1538[20:42:45] <greycat> hmm, that might be an old version of the page
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• 1540[20:43:01] <greycat> the primary question is *how* do you login
• 1541[20:43:11] <maxtim> lightdm
• 1542[20:43:31] <greycat> That'd be why. Display managers do not create login shells, so they do not read shell profiles.
• 1543[20:43:59] <greycat> If it's *actually* environment variables that you want to make, you might be able to use ~/.xsessionrc instead.
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• 1545[20:44:14] <greycat> replaced-url
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• 1547[20:44:57] <maxtim> I'm doing: export PATH="$HOME/.cargo/bin:$PATH"
• 1548[20:45:10] <greycat> Well, see if it works in ~/.xsessionrc
• 1549[20:45:15] <maxtim> aye
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• 1553[20:49:17] <maxtim> exactly did the trick. In the future, should I add the line to both .xsessionrc as well as .bash_profile and .profile?
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• 1555[20:50:01] <greycat> It depends on what you have in your .profile. If you write it with the intent that it can safely be dotted in from a display manager (no terminal), then dotting it in from ~/.xsessionrc might be OK.
• 1556[20:50:13] <greycat> (also no bashisms)
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• 1561[20:54:35] <greycat> If you want fancy terminal/bash stuff in your shell login profile, then you might put those things in ~/.bash_profile, and have that dot in ~/.profile for the standard environment variables and other safe things. Which you can then also dot in from ~/.xsessionrc.
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• 1569[21:01:36] <maxtim> gotchya. Thanks for the info
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• 1586[21:14:42] <lgsobalvarro> Hi. Is there somewhere a debian install image with non-gnu drivers avaible?
• 1587[21:14:59] <greycat> !firmware images
• 1588[21:14:59] <dpkg> Unofficial <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages are available from replaced-url
• 1589[21:15:29] <lgsobalvarro> thank you
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• 1631[21:57:45] <tinga> Hi. Any suggestion to learn firewalling in Linux from scratch? I've been using Linux for 20 years and iptables and its predecessor for basically as long (lightly), but every so often I'm just puzzled about why rules I set up are not working. This can't be so bad for everyone so I need to learn it the way others do.
• 1632[21:58:43] <tinga> (s/to learn/for learning/ for proper grammar I guess)
• 1633[21:58:44] <greycat> if people here can't give you the answer to that, try #netfilter
• 1634[21:59:01] <tinga> Thanks for the suggestion.
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• 1637[22:02:28] <jhutchins> !netfilter
• 1638[22:02:29] <dpkg> [iptables] The user-space process used to administer iptables kernel parts on top of netfilter. Ask me about <netfilter docs>. For a proper Debian-way of setting up iptables, see replaced-url
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• 1642[22:06:15] <tinga> My question is basically, "how do you use iptables etc. if you're not a pro?" I might be helped by simply a set of diagrams about how elements in the system are or can be connected, so it becomes more obvious why something I'm doing might not be working.
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• 1644[22:06:57] * tinga checking the FAQ on replaced-url
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• 1646[22:08:16] <greycat> Remember that they just made "nftables" which is apparently supposed to supplant iptables (presumably the same way iptables supplanted ipchains).
• 1647[22:08:49] <greycat> Beyond that, I don't know. I learned OpenBSD's pf instead. And even that was long ago.
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• 1654[22:09:45] <tinga> Yep, I've got no problem going with nftables. (If there's a way to get into that more properly than how I went into iptables.)
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• 1658[22:15:07] <sney> you're going to have a much better time learning firewall administration if you have a solid understanding of networking, as well. and not just end-user "I forward port" stuff, but from an infrastructure standpoint. Routing/switching, what NAT is and how it works, tcp/ip fundamentals, etc.
• 1659[22:15:26] <jhutchins> tinga: The Masquerade docs are pretty good for iptables, and there's the Trinity Linux documentation that goes deeper. I have a hardware firewall so I don't bother with on-host firewalls any more.
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• 1670[22:26:13] <tinga> jhutchins, what do you mean with "the masquerade docs", this one? replaced-url
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• 1674[22:27:10] <tinga> Also can't find any Trinity linux firewalling documentation.
• 1675[22:27:20] <tinga> (At least not directly in Google.)
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• 1682[22:33:25] <jhutchins> hang on...
• 1683[22:34:05] <karlpinc> tinga: Trinity has nothing to do with firewalls, except that it might possibly have some gui admin tool like it might have to control screen brightness.
• 1684[22:37:36] <jhutchins> IPMasq HOWTO:
• 1685[22:37:36] <jhutchins> replaced-url
• 1686[22:37:36] <jhutchins> Trinity:
• 1687[22:37:42] <jhutchins> replaced-url
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• 1689[22:37:56] <tinga> Thanks, checking
• 1690[22:37:57] <jhutchins> karlpinc: Different trinity.
• 1691[22:38:24] <jhutchins> tinga: Note that they're both fairly old and RedHat biased.
• 1692[22:39:05] <tinga> Yeah, I'm always getting howtos on tldp when looking for networking docs, somehow.
• 1693[22:39:33] <jhutchins> tinga: Well, it's universal and it doesn't change much.
• 1694[22:39:35] <tinga> I mean, not that these are bad but that's the state of knowledge of back then;
• 1695[22:39:59] <karlpinc> Although, nftables is actually readable. Much more so than iptables.
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• 1697[22:40:26] <jhutchins> You just need to squint right for iptables...
• 1698[22:40:28] <karlpinc> tinga: It's all syntax that's changed, if that, not semantics.
• 1699[22:40:36] <jhutchins> karlpinc: Which trinity were you thinking of?
• 1700[22:40:44] <karlpinc> jhutchins: KDE fork.
• 1701[22:40:51] <jhutchins> Ah.
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• 1705[22:49:34] <jhutchins> Heh, TrinityOS was last updated15 years ago.
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