People who Joins , Parts or Quits a chatroom
this is #debian
an IRC -Channel at freenode
(freenode IRC service closed
2021-06-01)
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80 [00:39:45] <wym> 有没有中文的用户啊？
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192 [01:29:26] <ZaZaQR> hey, i live CD a debian 9 cinnamon, i
can't get the wifi to
193 [01:29:26] <ZaZaQR> work. i read online that i need to
install the drivers. is it
194 [01:29:26] <ZaZaQR> in the OS itself or do i need to download
it else where?
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206 [01:35:22] <Brigo> ZaZaQR, most probably you need the
firmware
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212 [01:36:53] <Nawab> join ##ChatterZ guys! lets chat and be
friends!
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218 [01:40:12] <ciarullo> hi there.. trying to format a usb with
mkdosfs and this was the output: unable to open /dev/sdb: Device or
resource busy
219 [01:40:19] <ciarullo> how can i solve it?
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222 [01:40:54] <cef> ciarullo: sounds like it's in use. You
might need to unmount it first.
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231 [01:41:31] <ciarullo> cef, i already did it
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233 [01:42:05] <ZaZaQR> where do you update the firmware?
234 [01:42:06] <cef> ciarullo: How did you do it? Don't
eject through a GUI, that fully removes the device from the system
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238 [01:43:12] <ciarullo> new error lol... attribute
"partition" not found
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240 [01:43:45] <ciarullo> cef, as i always do.. unmount /dev/sdxx
... sudo mkdosfs /dev/sdxx -I
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247 [01:45:03] <cef> ciarullo: have seen some drives where
there's no real partition table. eg: they've made the
whole drive - /dev/sdb - a filesystem, instead of as a partition.
run `fdisk /dev/sdb` to check
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251 [01:47:15] <ciarullo> i think i should say it before.. it was
a bootable drive with linux mint
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253 [01:49:04] <cef> ciarullo: ok. were you trying to replace the
whole drive with an fs, or add a files partition to it?
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257 [01:49:59] <ciarullo> i was trying to replace the whole drive
because before installing linux on that machine i need to copy some
files from windows to the pen drive
258 [01:51:03] <ciarullo> ok ok ok... now it seems to work
259 [01:51:09] <cef> ciarullo: :D
260 [01:51:34] <ciarullo> thank you anyways :D
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262 [01:51:38] <cef> no probs.
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269 [01:54:45] <awal1> any cli utility for check security bugs
affecting my system?
270 [01:56:13] <rant> dpkg, apt-listbugs?
271 [01:56:13] <dpkg> apt-listbugs (aptitude install
apt-listbugs) is available since Debian 3.1 "Sarge". When
installed, it will fetch the list of critical <BTS> bugs that
pertain to any packages being installed. It also allows you to
<pin> a version to prevent upgrades to any packages you
discover to be too risky. See also <apt-listchanges>.
272 [01:56:28] <awal1> one can use tags option for
apt-listbugs(example: "apt-listbugs -T security -s all list
firefox") but i was wonderin gif there is some app/way for list
all security bugs affecting all pkgs installed in my system
273 [01:56:32] <abrotman> dpkg: tell awal1 about debsecan
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275 [01:57:34] <annadane> if there are security updates then just
apt update and install upgrades
276 [01:57:36] <awal1> abrotman, ok, lets check debsecan
277 [01:57:44] <annadane> but TIL debsecan
278 [01:57:48] <awal1> i think it comes with devscripts
279 [01:57:55] <awal1> i already have it
280 [01:58:48] <annadane> oh wow i have a *lot* of CVEs show up
281 [01:59:25] <awal1> hm, debsecan doesn't come with
devscripts
282 [01:59:31] <awal1> i must install it
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289 [02:02:27] <awal1> abrtman, nice
290 [02:02:41] <awal1> thanks
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299 [02:09:43] <awal1> cve vs bug?
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302 [02:10:16] <awal1> when a "security hole" is
reported as bug and when as cve?
303 [02:11:32] <awal1> for example why #895147 is not a cve ?
304 [02:11:32] <judd> Bug
replaced-url
305 [02:12:58] <rjsalts> awal1: when the person who finds a
security flaw, or the upstream they report it to registers for a CVE
through mitre it becomes a CVE and gets categorized and triaged and
reported in a certain way
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307 [02:13:37] <rant> I'd say CVE are more for things widely
affecting everyone where normal securiy bugs are more narrowly
scoped
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309 [02:13:46] <rjsalts> awal1: but you don't have to report
your security bug through mitre
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311 [02:14:23] <rjsalts>
replaced-url
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319 [02:16:07] <awal1> rjsalts, rant, ok, I think I have a better
idea now
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345 [02:27:14] <thelucky1ike> hi, what would be most up-to-date
way for running ipsec on debian? seems they stopped work on openswan
for last year
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365 [02:39:33] <thelucky1ike> aha, strongswan it is, ty
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449 [03:33:26] <Faust> Hey
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454 [03:34:11] <Faust> I am curious about what language Debian is
written.
455 [03:34:27] <Faust> Aside from the kernel
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457 [03:35:08] <tonymke> Debian isn't "written" so
much as "collected". It's a collection of packages -
applications - put together and configured a certain way.
458 [03:35:14] <tonymke> Hopefully that makes sense.
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468 [03:41:05] <Faust> Since the packages are independent, that
probably means there are many languages at play, right?
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470 [03:41:38] <Faust> Do u know if there's a dominant one?
471 [03:41:43] <__m4ch1n3__> libraries are c/cpp
472 [03:42:04] <__m4ch1n3__> guess depends on how lowlevel
something is
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476 [03:42:52] <tonymke> Predominantly C/C++, next closest being
python.
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478 [03:43:36] <somiaj> a lot of perl around, though most of that
is the older stuff, python seems to be more popular these days
479 [03:43:46] <somiaj> you can also get ruby, shell scripts,
really depends on the software being used
480 [03:44:37] <Ouroboro> the stuff that ties the packages
together is mostly shell script
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482 [03:46:16] <Faust> Interesting.
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485 [03:46:39] <Faust> I never dealt with Perl. No idea what to
think about it.
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488 [03:47:14] <tonymke> It will... get you very good with
regular expressions :)
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491 [03:47:34] <somiaj> perl has some nice things about it, it
was one of the original popular interprited langauges, with a c like
syntax.
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493 [03:48:33] <Faust> tonymke, u mean RE from automata theory?
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497 [03:49:50] <Faust> somiaj, so it's like the java from
the interpreted languages?
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499 [03:50:17] <Ouroboro> it is almost the complete opposite of
java :P
500 [03:50:22] <tonymke> Ahh... regular expressions are a syntax
for searching and editing text. They are very dense and people can
find them intimidating at first.
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507 [03:53:57] <__m4ch1n3__> and syntax highlight
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509 [03:54:55] <somiaj> Faust: java is partly compiled, and
requires a java virtual machine, but kinda, the common ones are
perl, python and ruby
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511 [03:55:04] <somiaj> php is also one
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515 [03:55:37] <Ouroboro> but, java is very clean by design, perl
is... not
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517 [03:56:21] <Ouroboro> on the other hand, java is 100x more
verbose
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523 [03:57:00] <Faust> Ouroboro, I felt ur scars with it in that
comment.
524 [03:57:20] <Faust> tonymke, didn't know about this type
of regular expression
525 [03:57:36] <Ouroboro> Faust: they are the same RE
526 [03:57:37] <Faust> seems cool, I will take a look at it.
Thanks =D
527 [03:57:43] <Ouroboro> just an application
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529 [03:58:42] <Faust> somiaj, is ruby also interpreted? O_o
530 [03:58:57] <Faust> I thought 'twas compiled.
531 [03:59:29] <somiaj> python is partly compiled too, mostly
this is just to make the interpetation faster
532 [03:59:53] <somiaj> but the compiled isn't like C/C++,
the result is mostly pure text, plus some additional data to
classify the objects
533 [04:00:00] <Ouroboro> but, yes, all of these languages are
pretty much the same, if you want something slightly different, try
tex or haskell or something
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535 [04:00:21] <somiaj> I woudln't say tex as a programing
language, it is mostly a typesetter
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537 [04:01:08] <Ouroboro> well, people may use it that way, but
it is a complete language
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539 [04:02:09] <Faust> OOOOHhh so they're the same RE
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542 [04:02:29] <Faust> Now I understand the syntax highlight u
said.
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547 [04:04:08] <Faust> I didn't know I could use them for
search too.
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551 [04:04:48] <__m4ch1n3__> python makes lot fun, moving more
and more from bash to python
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555 [04:05:35] <__m4ch1n3__> and there are so many awesome
modules for python like prompt-toolkit
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560 [04:06:55] <pennTeller> Hi guys anyone know if it's
possible to record audio from a webcam microphone using the
terminal?
561 [04:07:31] <Faust> pennTeller, I think u can do that with
ffmpeg.
562 [04:07:35] *** Quits: him-cesjf (~cesjf@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
563 [04:08:01] <pennTeller> Faust I appreciate the feedback
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565 [04:08:31] <Faust> _m4ch1n3_, but Python is slow '----
566 [04:08:46] <Red_M> python does not have to be slow
567 [04:09:00] <Red_M> you can run C in python
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569 [04:09:13] <Red_M> with compiled extensions
570 [04:09:17] <annadane> i mean i don't think it would be
used by so many thousands of people if it were slow
571 [04:09:31] <Red_M> if you use python the wrong way it is slow
572 [04:09:42] <Red_M> if you don't use multiprocessing
properly it is slow
573 [04:09:56] <Red_M> it is very easy to make anything
"slow"
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580 [04:14:37] <Faust> pennTeller, =D
581 [04:15:03] <Faust> Red_M, never heard about these compiled
extensions. I will take a look.
582 [04:15:55] <Faust> And running C *in* Python? That's
confusing...
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584 [04:17:00] <__m4ch1n3__> lot modules are written in c/cpp,
like pyqt5, c libraries with python byndings
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589 [04:18:46] <Faust> wait wait. It may be possible to make
anything slow, but the more barebones ones like C are naturally
faster, aren't they?
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591 [04:20:05] <Ouroboro> not necessarily, e.g. java can be
faster than c in some cases because of jitc
592 [04:20:51] <__m4ch1n3__> pythons syntax is very special and
simpler. it has lot syntax sugar
593 [04:22:15] <__m4ch1n3__> and it is EAFP by design
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596 [04:22:27] <annadane> easy as first ...
597 [04:22:47] *** Joins: kri (~kri@replaced-ip )
598 [04:23:13] <Ouroboro> easy as fish porridge
599 [04:23:33] <whjms> Easier to Ask Forgiveness than Permission
600 [04:23:49] <annadane> ok, your acronyms make no sense, i
officially quit the internet
601 [04:24:08] <whjms> TTFN!
602 [04:24:19] <__m4ch1n3__>
replaced-url
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604 [04:24:58] <annadane> SOATFATF
605 [04:25:09] <annadane> god damn it
606 [04:25:13] <annadane> SLATFATF *
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608 [04:25:44] <somiaj> notes that discussion of programing
langauges isn't really debian support...
609 [04:26:26] <Faust> Ouroboro, even java? wow
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611 [04:26:48] <Faust> somiaj, I got caught into it :D
612 [04:26:53] <Faust> but u're right
613 [04:27:00] <Ouroboro> annadane: super lazy assholes truly
fail at taming foals?
614 [04:27:18] <Ouroboro> ok, i am done here
615 [04:27:18] <annadane> #debian-annadanes-going-away-party
sorry i mean #debian-offtopic
616 [04:27:30] <annadane> Ouroboro, so long and thanks for all
the fish
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619 [04:29:09] <Faust> whjms, Thanks. I initially found European
Association of Fish Pathologists as the first definition, but
imagined it wasn't that.
620 [04:29:17] <Faust> Anyways. Thanks guys
621 [04:29:24] <Faust> Learned a lot.
622 [04:29:33] <whjms> Python code can be fishy sometimes
623 [04:29:41] <Faust> I look up more about these topics
624 [04:29:45] <Faust> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
625 [04:29:51] <Faust> whmjs, LOL
626 [04:30:09] <Faust> See ya
627 [04:30:16] <whjms> o/
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629 [04:30:18] <Faust> Take care o/
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636 [04:31:38] <JordiGH> what's current stable codename?
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638 [04:31:42] <annadane> stretch
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640 [04:33:20] <whjms> Is it a bad idea to use 'stable'
instead of 'stretch' in my sources.list? I understand
buster is over a year away, so I'm just curious
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644 [04:34:02] <JordiGH> stretch, huh
645 [04:34:07] <JordiGH> So I already was at current stable.
646 [04:34:09] <JordiGH> Silly me.
647 [04:34:22] <JordiGH> I thought it was jessie or something
648 [04:34:22] <Ouroboro> whjms: yes, because you will not
remember that for a year
649 [04:34:23] <annadane> you should use stretch, so that when
next stable releases you don't run into nasty surprises
650 [04:34:48] <whjms> Aha gotcha
651 [04:34:48] <annadane> jessie is oldstable
652 [04:34:57] <awal1> whjms, 'stable' is the branch
name, stretch is the codename of that branch,
653 [04:35:05] <__m4ch1n3__> or push it to the limit and go
testing
654 [04:35:31] <whjms> I'm used to using unstable so stable
stuff is new to me haha
655 [04:35:58] <awal1> no difference until the last minute of
next stable version being available
656 [04:36:09] <awal1> :P
657 [04:36:22] <Ouroboro> it is pretty much the same, except with
two fewer letters
658 [04:37:16] <annadane> FYI: new intel-microcode was released,
so stable users are advised to update
659 [04:37:33] <awal1> whjms, i guess you know what means
'unstable' vs 'sid' right?
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662 [04:37:57] <Ouroboro> annadane: argh, again?
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664 [04:38:06] <annadane> yes except you can use either name
because it will always be unstable and you'll already be
running into nasty surprises
665 [04:38:07] <awal1> so same for stable vs past/current/next
codename
666 [04:38:21] <whjms> awal1: right, thanks
667 [04:38:35] <whjms> annadane: haha true
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671 [04:39:35] <awal1> if you keep 'stable' in your
sources file, when next stable is released when you upgrade your
system you'll get the new stable
672 [04:40:03] <awal1> use codename, now stretch, if you want to
avoid that, if that is your "interest"
673 [04:40:16] <annadane> you should avoid that because you
should read the release notes first
674 [04:40:35] <somiaj> The basic idea being, you should upgrade
at a time of your choosing over when the release happens.
675 [04:40:38] <Ouroboro> how do vps providers handle microcode
updates? do they just shut down all the vpses?
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677 [04:42:01] <somiaj> Ouroboro: might depend on the vps
provider, but if running server hardware, often times firmware
updates are more the approach than microcode. But yes, they would
have to shutdown for matiance (usually scheduled) and bring thigns
back up
678 [04:42:36] <Ouroboro> this is going to be fun
679 [04:43:11] <whjms> I should probably cancel my VPS
subscription for my unused server…
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682 [04:45:16] <Ouroboro> i wonder whether they would send an
acpi shutdown or suspend it transparently
683 [04:45:40] <Ouroboro> both methods have issues
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692 [04:54:08] <somiaj> Ouroboro: you may want to ask your vps.
I'm sure they each have their own policy of how they handel
firmware updates and kernel reboots of the hyperserver.
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702 [05:02:40] <Ouroboro> i am just thinking that it was possibly
a bad idea to use features that prevent an unattended boot
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741 [05:27:47] <Toadisattva> maybe this is a better place to ask
than ##linux
742 [05:27:50] <Toadisattva> I expect this is just a permissions
issue: using debian 8 jessie with lxde desktop, in my desktop
preferences the "show trash can on desktop" is selected
and greyed out, but there is no trash can icon on the desktop,
neither is it present in pcmanfm wehther I click it in the layout
menu or not
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751 [05:34:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1550
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753 [05:41:31] <__m4ch1n3__> what happens when you type
"trash:///" as path in thunar without ""
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783 [06:01:19] *** comrade_RMS is now known as coffeecupp__
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785 [06:02:02] <Toadisattva> using pcmanfm instead of thunar
786 [06:02:17] <Toadisattva> when I type trash:/// in the bar it
gives me an operation not permitted error
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791 [06:04:41] <well_laid_lawn> Toadisattva: see if this helps
replaced-url
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797 [06:12:32] <Toadisattva> thank you!
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850 [06:50:18] *** Neel is now known as OtakuSenpai
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855 [06:54:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1544
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871 [07:07:43] <Toadisattva> gvfs did it!
872 [07:07:46] <Toadisattva> thanks!
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902 [07:31:02] *** Quits: Guest9306 (skarn@replaced-ip##) (Quit: ZNC - ##replaced-url
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1022 [08:50:50] <drzacek> Hello there
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1025 [08:52:06] <iveqy> Hi, I've compiled and installed dwm
manually (a window manager) but it doesn't show up in the list
of available window manager even when I add an file to
/usr/share/xsessions
1026 [08:52:15] <drzacek> two days ago I spotted some wild panel
on my desktop. I'm on debian 9 with plasma. The panel floats
slightly above the taskbar, doesn't seem like to belong
anywhere, not sure what it is or does but it annoys me very much
1027 [08:52:29] <iveqy> what do I've do to to be able to use
dwm as my desktop environment?
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1029 [08:52:58] <drzacek> uploading picture now
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1038 [08:54:20] <drzacek>
replaced-url
1039 [08:54:53] <drzacek> iveqy, what dm?
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1044 [08:55:33] <Haohmaru> drzacek can't you click it.. any
menus from it?
1045 [08:55:38] <iveqy> drzacek: I don't know. The default in
stretch? Running update-alternatives --config x-session-manager
says: gnome-session
1046 [08:55:58] <drzacek> Haohmaru, yeah I can
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1049 [08:56:25] <drzacek> I can go to "preferences"
-> window pops up with title "uim-pref-qt4"
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1051 [08:56:53] <Haohmaru> good then, you have a name
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1054 [08:57:26] <iveqy> drzacek: how do I find out which dm
I've?
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1056 [08:58:05] <drzacek> iveqy, cat
/etc/X11/default-display-manager
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1059 [08:58:18] <iveqy> drzacek: usr/sbin/gdm3
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1062 [08:58:45] <iveqy> so obviously I've gdm3, and gdm3
should listen to /usr/share/xsessions/* right?
1063 [08:58:48] <drzacek> iveqy, I'm not sure but I'm
guessing it will be the same for all of them dms
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1065 [08:58:49] <drzacek>
replaced-url
1066 [08:59:03] <drzacek> iveqy, I would assume it should
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1250 [10:47:40] <apus> hi, i'm trying to install a minimal
server version of debian 9.4. I've got the netinst cd iso. For
whatever reason i don't ever get to a package selection screen,
where i can deselect stuff like X Desktop, libreoffice, etc. What am
i doing wrong?
1251 [10:48:07] <petn-randall> apus: It's usually fairly at
the end.
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1253 [10:49:23] <Guest37559> "Current status: 5 (+5)
upgradable, 28002 (+2) new." I know about `apt list
--upgradeable` to list out the 5 upgradeable packages; but, how
could I get a list of those 2 new packages?
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1255 [10:49:43] <colo-work> apus, make sure you use
"expert" installation mode
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1260 [10:50:21] <rocketmagnet> hi everyone, i'm using stable,
where is the php5-mysql package gone ?
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1262 [10:50:41] <babilen> Guest28683: There is no search for that
1263 [10:50:50] *** Joins: mel00010 (~mel00010@replaced-ip )
1264 [10:50:52] <rocketmagnet> is a bot here that can search for
packages ?
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1267 [10:51:11] <babilen> rocketmagnet: There is, but how would
that help you?
1268 [10:51:22] <babilen> dpkg: bat
1269 [10:51:23] <dpkg> In order to troubleshoot your problem with
apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information:
1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the
command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1
pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem,
and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use
replaced-url
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1271 [10:51:45] <babilen> rocketmagnet: This ^ might help in
debugging whatever issue you're having
1272 [10:52:06] <petn-randall> rocketmagnet: php5 is not in stable
(stretch), it only ships php7.
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1276 [10:52:42] <babilen> There is php-mysql though
1277 [10:52:48] <petn-randall> rocketmagnet: Since security
support in upstream is running out in 5 months, it's time to
upgrade :)
1278 [10:52:50] <rocketmagnet> so which package does i have to
install to get php7 support for my apache ? i tried php7.0-cgi but
that doesn't change a thing
1279 [10:52:52] <babilen> So it shouldn't be problematic to
get hold of that
1280 [10:52:57] *** Quits: briner_ (~briner@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1281 [10:53:01] <rocketmagnet> petn-randall: ^
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1285 [10:53:15] <babilen> rocketmagnet: Which problem are you
actually trying to solve/debug ?
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1287 [10:53:45] *** Joins: DrBunsen (~koen@replaced-ip )
1288 [10:53:48] <rocketmagnet> my apache doesn't support any
php code
1289 [10:54:02] *** Quits: melissa666 (~melissa66@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
1290 [10:54:07] <petn-randall> rocketmagnet: Depends on how you
want to run the PHP code ...
1291 [10:54:17] <DrBunsen> rocketmagnet: did you install the php
packages?
1292 [10:54:21] <babilen> Are you, mayhaps, looking for
libapache2-mod-php ?
1293 [10:54:28] <rocketmagnet> i've made an index.php with
<?php echo("WELCOME"); ?> and i get output in the
html file
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1295 [10:54:45] <rocketmagnet> babilen: sound reasonable
1296 [10:54:49] <rocketmagnet> thank you
1297 [10:54:57] *** Joins: orphean (~Orphean@replaced-ip )
1298 [10:55:05] <petn-randall> rocketmagnet: CGI, fastcgi, FPM,
...
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1300 [10:55:34] *** Joins: DebianGuyB5 (~user@replaced-ip )
1301 [10:55:35] <petn-randall> Oh right, mod_php also still
exists.
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1303 [10:55:40] * petn-randall shudders.
1304 [10:55:48] <rocketmagnet> babilen: and how do i install the
mysql packages so php has mysql support ?
1305 [10:55:52] <babilen> I typically use nginx with fastcgi
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1307 [10:56:11] <babilen> fastcgi isn't a bad approach
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1309 [10:56:28] <rocketmagnet> i want to stick to what i know
1310 [10:56:31] <blaztek> babilen: good combo!
1311 [10:56:43] <babilen> rocketmagnet: There's php-mysql -
but it makes sense to think about the best way to run PHP in your
setup and to pick the best toolstack for your situation
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1314 [10:56:46] <rocketmagnet> i have to learn alot (like every
other coder)
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1316 [10:57:03] <rocketmagnet> ok
1317 [10:57:19] *** Joins: orphean (~Orphean@replaced-ip )
1318 [10:57:22] <rocketmagnet> is it just a setup thing or does it
changes the way i've the php code mysql ?
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1322 [10:57:44] <babilen> As I said: I'm quite fond of nginx
and fastcgi, but you can naturally keep using Apache. Also look into
the different ones mentioned by petn-randall
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1326 [10:58:16] <babilen> Sorry, I don't quite follow. What
do you mean by "is it just a setup thing or does it changes the
way i've the php code mysql" ?
1327 [10:58:21] <rocketmagnet> i'll do when i've time,
i've a deathline to finish :X
1328 [10:58:41] *** Quits: user03 (~user03@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1329 [10:59:36] <apus> colo-work: can you please tell me where i
can activate it?
1330 [11:00:10] *** Quits: orphean (~Orphean@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1331 [11:00:18] <rocketmagnet> babilen: but thanks a lot for the
effort helping me !
1332 [11:00:20] <colo-work> apus, when you boot into the
installer, there's supposed to be a menu there (where you can
choose between normal and expert mode, and the graphical variants of
the two)
1333 [11:00:36] *** Joins: orphean (~Orphean@replaced-ip )
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1335 [11:01:19] <rocketmagnet> babilen: btw. does this channel has
a bot that can help with a few things ?
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1344 [11:04:44] <babilen> rocketmagnet: It does have multiple
bots:
replaced-url
1345 [11:04:53] *** Quits: dhollinger (~dhollinge@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1346 [11:05:24] <DrBunsen> Does anyone have any experience with
nextcloud here? I asked my question in the nextcloud irc, but to no
avail. I setup nextcloud and the loading after login takes way too
long even in the same network, and the interface looks all funky
replaced-url
1347 [11:05:24] <DrBunsen> see no new errors in the log, but the
slow loading and funky interface remains. I hope anyone would please
take a look, since I am at a loss here.
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1356 [11:09:32] <apus> colo-work: for me i have bios grub boot
options: Graphical Debian Installer, Debian Installer, Debian
Installer with speech ... At no point does any of these ask me if i
want to install in expert mode. no matter how i arrive at the
partitioning, after i select ok, write changes to disk, it starts
copying files.
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1359 [11:10:11] <Kelsar> apus: selection comes after it copies
some base things afaik
1360 [11:10:40] *** Joins: czesmir (~stefan@replaced-ip )
1361 [11:11:16] <akd> I was able to use accent with my
"English (US Alternative Layout", I was able to write
"é" when pressing (ALT-GR + ") + e , now I am
writing "'e". I want to restore my ALT-GR . I dont
remember where is the kebyoard configuration. I am on Linux Debian
Stretch With a Cinnamon desktop. Any Help ?
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1369 [11:14:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1592
1370 [11:15:30] <petn-randall> DrBunsen: apparmor or selinux
running? Which OS release is this?
1371 [11:16:49] <DrBunsen> petn-randall: just debian stable,
whatever the default of the two is, selinux right?
1372 [11:17:09] <petn-randall> DrBunsen: None of them is installed
by default.
1373 [11:17:20] <DrBunsen> neither ;)
1374 [11:17:43] *** Joins: wonderworld (~ww@replaced-ip )
1375 [11:18:22] <petn-randall> DrBunsen: Which user does the
nextcloud files and directory belong to?
1376 [11:18:49] <DrBunsen>
replaced-url
1377 [11:19:39] <petn-randall> DrBunsen: Can you show me the
output of 'ls -l /var/replaced-url
1378 [11:20:07] *** Quits: envil_ (~envil@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
1379 [11:20:07] <apus> Kelsar: colo-work: found it, thanks!
1380 [11:20:48] *** Joins: Envil (~envil@replaced-ip )
1381 [11:20:59] <DrBunsen> ooo, that is another user! guess I
should redo my chown ;)
1382 [11:21:00] <DrBunsen> -rwxrwxrwx 1 bunsen bunsen 1273 Jun 12
14:30 /var/replaced-url
1383 [11:21:04] *** Joins: neoVoid (~steve@replaced-ip )
1384 [11:21:08] <petn-randall> :)
1385 [11:21:33] <petn-randall> DrBunsen: and chmod 777 is *never*
a good idea.
1386 [11:22:00] <DrBunsen> I know, I just wanted to see if it
would change anything
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1389 [11:22:55] <DrBunsen> It is still slow and it still looks
like the image I supplied :'(
1390 [11:23:10] *** Quits: bites (~bites@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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1392 [11:23:40] <petn-randall> DrBunsen: What command did you run
to fix permissions?
1393 [11:23:53] *** Joins: catsup (d@replaced-ip )
1394 [11:24:21] <DrBunsen> chown -R
replaced-url
1395 [11:24:21] <DrBunsen> it is now owned by
replaced-url
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1404 [11:34:52] <rephlexie> imo looks like a php/table issue,
template being garbled etc etc
1405 [11:35:24] <Haohmaru> aww crap, quadro NVS (NV17GL) seems to
be uber uber old, and there's no driver for it?
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1407 [11:35:37] <Haohmaru> i mean no "nvidia" driver
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1410 [11:36:25] <petn-randall> Haohmaru: It should work with the
FOSS drivers.
1411 [11:36:33] <Haohmaru> nouveau?
1412 [11:36:49] *** Joins: holmgren (magnus@replaced-ip )
1413 [11:36:59] <Haohmaru> yeah, it worked, but it has no idea
about the monitor's resoltions
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1415 [11:37:00] <petn-randall> Haohmaru: yes
1416 [11:37:45] <Haohmaru> i'll have to pretend i'm a
cvt/xrandr h4x0r again
1417 [11:37:54] <petn-randall> Haohmaru: How is it connected? Not
all standards require a backchannel for reporting supported
resolutions (VGA for example).
1418 [11:38:07] <Haohmaru> it's VGA of course
1419 [11:38:12] <petn-randall> :)
1420 [11:38:12] <Haohmaru> the monitor is also "old"
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1501 [12:26:56] <AliceKelly> good morning
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1547 [12:59:02] <michael2> if the kernel contains binary blobs -
how is it that it is in main? shouldn't the kernel be in
non-free or contrib?
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1549 [12:59:55] <jelly> michael2: which binary blobs and which
kernel?
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1551 [13:00:15] <michael2> linux kernel
1552 [13:00:28] <jelly> do you have a specific example?
1553 [13:00:38] <michael2> of the binary blobs?
1554 [13:00:58] <jelly> yes, and the kernel package that carries
them
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1560 [13:02:56] <Kelsar> firmware blobs
1561 [13:03:24] <michael2> jelly: I dont know of any specific
examples Im not familiar with the kernel source code, but I read
that it is necessary for the kernel to contain various blobs
1562 [13:03:44] <jelly> michael2: where did you read that
1563 [13:04:26] <FinalX> ,v nginx
1564 [13:04:27] <judd> Package: nginx on amd64 -- wheezy:
1.2.1-2.2+wheezy4; wheezy-security: 1.2.1-2.2+wheezy4+deb7u1;
wheezy-backports: 1.6.2-5+deb8u2~bpo70+1; jessie: 1.6.2-5+deb8u5;
jessie-security: 1.6.2-5+deb8u5; sid: 1.10.1-1; jessie-backports:
1.10.3-1+deb9u1~bpo8+2; stretch: 1.10.3-1+deb9u1; stretch-security:
1.10.3-1+deb9u1; stretch-backports: 1.13.3-1~bpo9+1; buster:
1.13.12-1; sid:
1565 [13:04:27] <michael2> jelly: give me a sec to find where I
saw it...
1566 [13:04:28] <judd> 1.13.12-1
1567 [13:04:32] <Kelsar> michael2: kernel.org has removed any
blobs from the kernel tree with 4.17. since they are all in
linux-firmware anyways. dunno how debian handles it
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1574 [13:05:28] <jelly> michael2: if it's a reference older
than 10 years, debian has thoroughly deblobbed their kernel source
and resulting binaries a long time ago. IF you find something
specific you can report a bug.
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1576 [13:05:55] <michael2> jelly: ah, yes it was a reference from
2008
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1578 [13:06:35] <jelly> other distros however may have a different
situation
1579 [13:08:38] <michael2> Kelsar: 4.17 thats a quite recent
version right? so current mainline/upstream kernels are entirely
deblobbed?
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1582 [13:08:56] <Kelsar> michael2: could be 4.16 not sure
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1584 [13:09:31] <Kelsar> atleast all the firmware stuff was thrown
out
1585 [13:09:44] <michael2> any idea how SMM (system management
mode) is implemented these days in that case?
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1588 [13:11:57] <petn-randall> michael2: What do you mean with
that? It's in the firmware, if that's your question.
1589 [13:12:13] <petn-randall> michael2: Well, CPU microcode,
which is firmware IMO.
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1596 [13:14:59] <michael2> petn-randall: i mean this:
1597 [13:15:02] <michael2>
replaced-url
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1604 [13:17:59] <petn-randall> michael2: I know what it is, your
question just doesn't make much sense.
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1610 [13:19:43] <michael2> I could be wrong but I thought SSM was
moved from firmware into the kernel
1611 [13:19:55] <michael2> s/SSM/SMM
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1613 [13:20:58] <michael2> from the sounds, it probably was, but
has since been removed..?
1614 [13:21:24] <petn-randall> michael2: Where did you read that?
1615 [13:21:24] <michael2> the source of the info was pretty old
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1618 [13:22:51] <michael2> petn-randall: just a sec, finding
now...
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1621 [13:23:48] <jelly> OS never deals with SMM, _if_ it's
very lucky it will be able to notice lost time during SMM.
1622 [13:23:50] <jelly> sounds like a lot of bull
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1629 [13:25:16] <michael2> petn-randall: jelly:
replaced-url
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1635 [13:29:35] <petn-randall> michael2: I've listened
several minutes in, and I haven't heard anything about moving
SMM into the kernel.
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1637 [13:31:15] <michael2> petn-randall: my mistake - it sounds
like it was the ACPI vm that was moved into the kernel - but it was
in 2001...?
1638 [13:31:25] <jelly> that is also incorrect
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1640 [13:32:08] <petn-randall> michael2: Also, this talk is about
coreboot, which is a FOSS implementation of BIOS/UEFI. So they might
be doing some things differently than usual BIOS/UEFI does.
1641 [13:33:05] <jelly> and a system firmware will do VERY
different things than an OS kernel will
1642 [13:34:03] <michael2> but isnt the BIOS an unusual kind of
firmware in that it runs on CPU?
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1649 [13:36:34] <jelly> where would you have firmware run on, if
not a cpu
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1651 [13:36:59] <michael2> on the devices own dedicated processor
1652 [13:37:00] <Kelsar> a cpu, but not the cpu. like hdds got
pretty beafy arm socs sometimes
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1655 [13:38:49] <jelly> and the main CPU and its main board would
prepare its state to boot an OS using what, fairy dust?
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1657 [13:39:36] <michael2> the BIOS
1658 [13:39:48] <colo-work> jelly, fairy dust sounds acceptable 8)
1659 [13:39:55] *** Joins: OtakuSenpai (~Neel@replaced-ip )
1660 [13:40:12] <colo-work> (esp. if it's distributed under a
copyleft license)
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1663 [13:43:06] <michael2> the CPU is exactly that the _central_
processor. if you're talking about a processor which is part of
a peripheral satellite component like a wifi module, keyboard etc .
then i would call that just a "processor"
1664 [13:43:17] <jelly> michael2: having more dedicated processors
increases price of product
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1680 [13:53:31] <szonek> hi, there is a chance that Fastly CDN
debian mirror has some modified/infected with malware file, who can
i speak to about it?
1681 [13:54:03] <ikanobori> is it provided by fastly itself or
someone uses fastly to provide a mirror?
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1683 [13:54:44] <szonek> by fastly
1684 [13:54:51] <petn-randall> szonek: What makes you come to that
conclusion?
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1687 [13:55:17] <szonek> petn-randall: it may be false positive:
replaced-url
1688 [13:55:45] *** Quits: lnslbrty (~NULL@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1689 [13:55:57] <szonek> but win32-loader.exe has different hash
than the one on ftp.debian.org
1690 [13:56:37] <szonek>
replaced-url
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1693 [13:58:16] <petn-randall> szonek: Do you have a link to the
one on ftp.debian.org?
1694 [13:58:19] *** Quits: BWMerlin (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip ) (Quit: BWMerlin)
1695 [13:58:45] <szonek> petn-randall:
replaced-url
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1699 [14:00:00] <petn-randall> szonek: They both return the same
checksum for me.
1700 [14:00:07] <petn-randall> szonek:
37a1016d0d97e5bc488c966f878b2b86 win32-loader.exe
1701 [14:00:14] <petn-randall> md5sum, that is.
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1703 [14:01:05] <szonek> petn-randall: i think you might've
been redirected to fastly
1704 [14:01:49] <szonek> petn-randall:
replaced-url
1705 [14:01:55] <szonek> petn-randall:
replaced-url
1706 [14:02:10] <szonek> hashes are different
1707 [14:02:51] <szonek> petn-randall: sorry, my fault
1708 [14:03:01] <petn-randall> szonek: The second URL is pointing
to a different file.
1709 [14:03:03] <szonek> urls are differnet
1710 [14:03:06] <szonek> yeah
1711 [14:03:11] <petn-randall> On both files I get
6111efe0a54cab8344981c121f0125800a3c4b88a7f1b5bb3b45fbe91648a73a as
sha256sum.
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1715 [14:04:02] <petn-randall> szonek:
replaced-url
1716 [14:04:29] <oerheks> oldoldstable
1717 [14:04:42] <szonek> yeah, sorry about that
1718 [14:05:04] <petn-randall> szonek: It's ok. A pity there
aren't any gpg signature on that file, though.
1719 [14:05:21] <oerheks> stay sharp, beter a false positive than
..
1720 [14:05:35] <petn-randall> szonek: I recommend using the
netinstaller and a USB stick, anyway.
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1722 [14:06:23] <szonek> petn-randall: i'm building my own
iso with simple-cdd and have hard time downloading this exe file due
to our firewall blocking it
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1734 [14:12:07] <petn-randall> szonek: Not much we can do about
it, though.
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1736 [14:12:19] <petn-randall> szonek: You could try HTTPS, that
should solve it.
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1750 [14:23:38] <OS-38463> /join #offsec
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1754 [14:24:26] <OS-38463> /msg NickServ IDENTIFY 1234XXXX
1755 [14:25:52] <oerheks> time to change password
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1771 [14:32:45] <jolt> :D
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1774 [14:33:26] <colo-work> I recommend 'hunter2'
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1779 [14:34:43] <jim> OS-38463, space.... can be the final
frontier but not the initial one!
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1781 [14:35:12] <dgp> <insert "its a trap" gif
here>
1782 [14:35:28] <secrgb> colo-work: 'password123' was a
popular choice once ..
1783 [14:36:08] <jim> so was password 321, to thwart the guessers
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1785 [14:37:18] <jim> or pihunger31416
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1788 [14:38:48] <secrgb> My favorite password is
'incorrect'
1789 [14:38:51] <szonek> petn-randall: yeap, https works! :)
1790 [14:38:52] <szonek> thanks
1791 [14:39:29] <secrgb> when i get it wrong, irc reminds me:
'Your password is incorrect'
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1793 [14:40:52] <Ool> :)
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1861 [15:08:34] <jim> is memtest86 still an installable thing?
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1863 [15:09:19] <petn-randall> jim: You can easily check that in
your package manager.
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1865 [15:09:37] <jim> or...
1866 [15:09:47] <jim> , v memtest86
1867 [15:09:48] <judd> Package: memtest86 on amd64 -- wheezy:
4.0s-1; jessie: 4.3.7-2; buster: 4.3.7-3; sid: 4.3.7-3; stretch:
4.3.7-3
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1892 [15:26:52] <jelly> dpkg, tell jim about msg the bot
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1960 [15:57:24] <yac> Is there a way to automatically install -dev
packages for installed packages?
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1972 [16:03:11] <jelly> yac: I'd assume there wasn't.
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1982 [16:07:29] <k_> hello, i am trying to install mysql-server in
parrot security os but it is showing this message "Package
mysql-server is not available, but is referred to by another
package. This may mean that the package is missing, has been
obsoleted, or is only available from another source E: Package
'mysql-server' has no installation candidate"
1983 [16:07:43] <greycat> !parrot
1984 [16:07:43] <dpkg> Parrot OS (replaced-url
1985 [16:07:51] *** Quits: DerLG (~derlg@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1986 [16:08:08] <k_> ok
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1990 [16:09:10] <jelly> yac: but there might be a (better) way,
depending on what you're actually trying to achieve
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1992 [16:09:35] <dougie> In the install, is "Debian desktop
environment" that's checked by default an actual desktop
environment?
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1994 [16:09:56] <greycat> It will install GNOME.
1995 [16:10:00] <jelly> dougie: if you can call Gnome an actual
DE, yes
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1997 [16:10:25] <dougie> Gotcha, cool.
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2008 [16:16:28] <bash94> w
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2037 [16:25:19] <SimonB> Having problems with an NVIDIA card on my
Debian system (on Stretch and now Buster). The card is a Quadro NVS
420m and I have the legacy 340 drivers installed (from repos not
NVIDIA directly). I have 3 monitors on said card, But the card
presents itself as two GPU's, and I'm having to use
twinview to get all three monitors working. The problem is that
anything that tries to use hardware accelerated
2038 [16:25:25] <SimonB> graphics grinds the whole PC to a halt,
and I often have to reset when this does happen.
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2040 [16:26:47] <SimonB> xorg.conf :
replaced-url
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2056 [16:33:38] <SimonB> NVS 420 not NVS 420m
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2059 [16:36:24] <Brigo> hi, i have a problem with a mini laptop
that dosen't detect my ap, but it detects others. I am
wondering if it is any king of compatibility issue or what.
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2062 [16:38:27] <Brigo> my phone can detect 11 and the laptop 7.
2063 [16:38:42] *** Joins: hele (~hele@replaced-ip )
2064 [16:39:17] <Brigo> well, my pc can detect 6 ...
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2069 [16:42:13] <petn-randall> Brigo: Do you have the firmware
package for that wifi installed? It might be that the burned-in
firmware kind of works, but is buggy.
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2071 [16:43:05] <Brigo> petn-randall, i think so, i will recheck.
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2078 [16:45:45] <Brigo> petn-randall, that could be the issue. i
would say i checked that. Maybe not because it worked at first.
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2081 [16:46:16] <petn-randall> Brigo: Hmm, what do you mean by
that?
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2085 [16:47:08] <Brigo> the wifi was working for years, and all of
the sudden stopped working.
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2087 [16:48:00] <petn-randall> Brigo: Oh, I see. In that case it
could also be a broken wifi antenna, though I'd check for
software problems first.
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2092 [16:49:36] <Brigo> i am checking with iw dev wlan0 scan, so,
i don't think there can be any other software issue but the
driver. I can check to connect close to the ap, i alread did without
luck.
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2101 [16:53:25] <Brigo> form the same room it can't detect
the ap. could it be an ap issue?
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2106 [16:56:06] <qwerty1> Hello, I recently downloaded and
unzipped a bz2 file. When I attempt to open the program via the
command line I get an error that the program is not located in the
path /usr/bin/<program>. However I am staring at the file in
that path /usr/bin/ <program I am staring at>. Also, the error
"failed to execute child" appears when I try to run the
program via the gui. Any ideas? Thanks.
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2109 [16:56:41] <greycat> What is the exact name of the program?
What is the exact command you are typing to run it?
2110 [16:57:00] <greycat> If it's in the current directory,
you should be typing ./myproggie to run it.
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2116 [16:57:58] <greycat> If it's something you created or
downloaded, you should not be putting it in /usr/bin. You may use
/usr/local/bin for such things.
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2118 [16:58:44] <greycat> I would strongly recommend that you test
the thing from the current directory (~/Downloads/ or whatever)
before installing it system-wide.
2119 [16:59:19] <qwerty1> @greycat I tried running with sudo as
well. its veracrpyt
2120 [16:59:32] <greycat> !exact
2121 [16:59:32] <dpkg> Please tell us exactly what you typed, and
exactly what the error was. Please use a <pastebin> like
replaced-url
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2124 [17:00:05] <greycat> What does "ls -l ./veracrypt"
show? Did you run "sudo ./veracrypt"? What output did you
get? Why the hell would your first test be with sudo?
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2130 [17:04:28] <qwerty1> @greycat ls -l ./ I get ls: impossible
access './veracrypt': File or directory does not exist
2131 [17:04:47] <greycat> You're translating.
2132 [17:04:48] <qwerty1> @greycat correct I ran ls -l ./veracrypt
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2134 [17:05:10] <greycat> Where is the file? What directory are
you in? Why are you not in the directory where the file is that you
are trying to test?
2135 [17:05:19] <greycat> !localized errors
2136 [17:05:20] <dpkg> To provide command output in English
instead of your native language, set your locale to an English one
(e.g. C) prior to running the command, e.g. "LC_ALL=C apt-get
-f install".
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2153 [17:09:53] <nUll3ec> hey
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2155 [17:10:22] <qwerty1> @greycat ok. I ran it from the directory
got '- rwxr -xr -x 1 root root 6622984 mar 30 08:20
./veracrypt'
2156 [17:10:31] *** Joins: gerforce (~gerforce@replaced-ip )
2157 [17:10:46] <nUll3ec> :>
2158 [17:10:53] <greycat> OK, now if you're in that directory
and you type ./veracrypt what happens?
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2161 [17:11:21] <greycat> If you get errors, please run it as
"LC_ALL=C ./veracrypt" and then paste that command AND all
of its output onto
replaced-url
2162 [17:11:35] <qwerty1> file or directory doesnt exist.
2163 [17:11:55] <jelly> more correctly, it's an exit status
of 2
2164 [17:12:09] <greycat> you may be confusing exit status 2 with
errno==2
2165 [17:12:25] <jelly> execve() can return 2, too
2166 [17:12:28] <qwerty1> @greycat I am relatively new. Could you
please briefly explain what LC_ALL=C is ? Thanks
2167 [17:12:41] <greycat> qwerty1: if you're getting "No
such file or directory" on ./veracrypt when you're sure
you spelled it right, try "file ./veracrypt" and "ldd
./veracrypt"
2168 [17:12:45] <jelly> when someone's trying to run a 32bit
binary on a 64bit-only system
2169 [17:12:49] <greycat> !localized errors
2170 [17:12:49] <dpkg> To provide command output in English
instead of your native language, set your locale to an English one
(e.g. C) prior to running the command, e.g. "LC_ALL=C apt-get
-f install".
2171 [17:13:04] *** Joins: gpap (~fronto@replaced-ip )
2172 [17:13:09] <greycat> Yeah, arch mismatch is one of the
possible causes here.
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2176 [17:13:16] <greycat> file and ldd should be helpful
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2178 [17:14:35] <qwerty1> @greycat 100% positive I spelled it
right.
2179 [17:15:37] *** Joins: ellyacht (~ellyacht@replaced-ip )
2180 [17:15:48] <greycat> qwerty1: use file ./veracrypt to see
what kind of file it is
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2182 [17:18:00] <qwerty1> @greycat here is what I get when I run
file ./veracrypt ./veracrypt: ./veracrypt: ELF 32-bit LSB shared
object, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked,
interpreter /lib/ld-linux.so.2,
BuildID[sha1]=8852ee3274c644919239dea50458d89f57c8b6de, stripped
2183 [17:18:23] <greycat> And is your Linux system 32-bit or
64-bit?
2184 [17:18:24] <qwerty1> @jelly I think your supposition may be
correct.
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2187 [17:18:45] <greycat> !multiarch
2188 [17:18:45] <dpkg> Multiarch allows you to install foreign
architecture packages. For example, to allow i386 packages to be
installed on an amd64 system: «dpkg --add-architecture i386
&& apt-get update». See
replaced-url
2189 [17:18:48] <qwerty1> @greycat. Yeah im 64 so my question is
how do I run the 64 bit version.
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2191 [17:18:58] <greycat> Or, if there's a 64-bit version
available, just get that instead.
2192 [17:20:22] <qwerty1> @greycat there is no 64 bit available
just the tar.bz2 file
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2194 [17:20:44] <greycat> Then follow the !multiarch instructions,
and start installing 32-bit libraries.
2195 [17:21:13] <qwerty1> @dpkg thanks
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2197 [17:21:45] <qwerty1> @greycat was the second part of your
sentence advice for the future?
2198 [17:22:24] <greycat> If the program is dynamically linked,
you will almost certainly need to install a lot of lib*:i386
packages.
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2201 [17:23:19] <jelly> juding by the size, it looks like
it's semistatically or badly linked so that it still looks for
ld.so even if it does not actually need anything from there
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2203 [17:23:49] <jelly> ldd will know, after libc6:i386 is
installed
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2209 [17:29:56] <qwerty1> @greycat why is it if my program is
dynamically linked I will need to install a lot of i386 packages?
2210 [17:30:07] <greycat> because it will need those libraries
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2226 [17:33:58] <croddy> there are 64-bit binaries of veracrypt
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2229 [17:35:20] <croddy> the installers are clearly labeled by
architecture
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2245 [17:42:24] <qwerty1> @croddy how did you come about this?
2246 [17:42:40] <croddy> i downloaded the tar.bz2 from the website
and unpacked it to refresh my memory
2247 [17:42:53] <croddy> interestingly there is nothing in there
called just 'veracrypt'
2248 [17:43:00] <croddy> but this is not really part of debian
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2252 [17:44:51] <qwerty1> @croddy what series of commands do you
use to unpack a tar.bz2?
2253 [17:45:07] <qwerty1> @croddy still trying to figure out what
works best
2254 [17:45:07] <croddy> tar jxf filename.tar.bz2
2255 [17:45:18] <qwerty1> @no v?
2256 [17:45:24] <qwerty1> @croddy no v?
2257 [17:45:26] <croddy> i don't use the v, no
2258 [17:45:32] <croddy> you can if you want to
2259 [17:45:34] <qwerty1> any reason
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2262 [17:46:05] <croddy> it suppresses the output and runs faster
for tars with many files. if i am unsure of the contents i will use
'tar tvf' to have a look before unpacking. but this is
just a matter of preference and you can decide for yourself how you
want to use it.
2263 [17:46:14] <greycat> Maybe you could start by telling him
where the 64-bit veracrypt is.
2264 [17:46:21] <greycat> Since he claimed there isn't one.
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2267 [17:46:59] <croddy> it is the only linux binary download on
veracrypt.fr, there is one archive with both architectures.
replaced-url
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2278 [17:52:30] <greycat> I almost always use tar tzf (or tjf,
whatever is applicable) before extracting an archive, to see whether
it creates its own subdirectory or just spams files into the current
directory.
2279 [17:53:02] <greycat> You need to know that before extracting,
or else you might end up with an irreversible mess.
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2286 [17:57:15] <qwerty1> @greycat thanks for your help. Found out
the issue. thanks like an idiot i was installing the x86 not the 64.
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2302 [18:01:26] <jelly> croddy: it only runs faster if your
terminal is really slow!
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2304 [18:02:02] <croddy> well, someday i'll get a 115200 baud
serial card
2305 [18:02:29] <jelly> or switch over to a different screen(1)
2306 [18:02:49] <jelly> then go back, oops, still scrolling
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2327 [18:12:38] <dob1> some utility to monitor wifi signal ?
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2356 [18:26:35] <jhutchins_wk> dob1: Complete sentences work
better.
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2360 [18:27:20] <dob1> is there some program that can I use to
monitor the wifi's signal?
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2371 [18:32:03] <jhutchins_wk> dob1: I think the network manager
applets will do that.
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2376 [18:32:33] <fatalerrors> hi there
2377 [18:33:01] <fatalerrors> i'm using reprepro at work to
provide some additional deb at work
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2379 [18:33:30] <dob1> jhutchins_wk, maybe something better
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2381 [18:33:44] <fatalerrors> we reorganised that to move the repo
tree, served by apache on a more secure storage
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2383 [18:34:03] <dgp> dob1: what do you need to monitor it for?
range testing?
2384 [18:34:25] <fatalerrors> i sed config files to update them
accordingly to new paths
2385 [18:34:33] <jhutchins_wk> dob1: conky or gkrellm might have
network modules.
2386 [18:34:43] <fatalerrors> but now all the packages are warned
as unsecure
2387 [18:34:56] <fatalerrors> how can i fix that please ?
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2390 [18:36:15] <dob1> for example there are android apps that
give a lot of informations. the wifi connection on the pc I am using
is very unstable I would like to investigate why. The router is in
the same room
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2392 [18:37:07] <dgp> dob1: you probably want to look at the error
counters using iw
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2394 [18:37:23] <dgp> dob1: it's possible you just have one
of the many crap wifi chipsets
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2397 [18:38:16] <dob1> dgp, I will take a look. the pc is a x220
lenovo
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2400 [18:39:07] <dgp> dob1: use lsusb or lspci to find out what
you have
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2409 [18:42:08] <dob1> it's an intel one
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2413 [18:45:03] <dgp> That should be one of the better ones then.
You can get signal info etc from iw. If the signal looks good and
it's still bad you might need to disable power saving or so
some other tweaks
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2423 [18:50:38] <jhutchins_wk> dob1: Also check dmesg when you
have issues, see what it thinks is happening.
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2450 [19:07:21] <dob1> jhutchins_wk, the dhcp for ipv6 was active,
I disabled it
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2463 [19:14:52] <jairzhino> hi all
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2476 [19:25:04] <dob1> as dhcp server I am using another pc but on
the router there was a dhcp6 server active, I disabled it. It seems
this was causing problems
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2483 [19:29:19] <Error451> my first question would be why
you'd have IPv6 on a LAN
2484 [19:29:34] <Error451> but the answer would prolly be
"because you can"
2485 [19:29:43] <dob1> I don't
2486 [19:29:44] <Dagger> because your LAN is part of the internet
and the internet is big enough to need v6
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2488 [19:30:25] <__m4ch1n3__> if its part of internet then it is
not lan :3
2489 [19:30:46] <Dagger> er... yes it is? that's how networks
work
2490 [19:30:46] <Error451> yeah I was still totally dumbfounded by
that remark
2491 [19:31:19] *** Joins: booyah (~bb@replaced-ip )
2492 [19:31:31] <Dagger> maybe your local network legitimately
isn't connected to the internet, but most are these days
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2496 [19:32:16] <Error451> well I only have a couple of ports
open, not my entire LAN in a DMZ
2497 [19:32:24] <Error451> so IPv$ router is fine
2498 [19:32:29] *** Quits: lektrik (~mayday_ja@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2499 [19:32:32] <Error451> *6
2500 [19:33:05] <Error451> also .. less than XX million
connections on my lan
2501 [19:33:21] *** Quits: DebianGuyB5 (~user@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2502 [19:33:45] <__m4ch1n3__> this will change with IoT and
nanobots
2503 [19:33:51] *** Quits: asterismo_l (~asterismo@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2504 [19:33:57] <Dagger> if your network is connected to the
internet, then no, it's not fine. there are too many machines
on the internet for v4
2505 [19:33:59] <`Kevin> and what is the reason for not having v6
on a LAN?
2506 [19:34:14] *** Joins: arora (~ashok@replaced-ip )
2507 [19:34:15] <Error451> fortunately I still have a choice of
buying non-IoT stuff
2508 [19:34:35] <Dagger> I know most of the machines aren't
directly connected to *your* network, but that's kinda the
point of the internet -- it's a bunch of networks that are
connected together
2509 [19:35:00] <__m4ch1n3__> ipv6 protocol has built in
encryption, so there is always a reason to use it in my opinion
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2512 [19:35:29] *** Quits: dadinn (~DADINN@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2513 [19:35:58] <greycat> (That's literally what
"internetwork" means -- a network of networks.
"Internet" is a shortened form of
"internetwork".)
2514 [19:36:35] <dgp> Error451: IPv6 has a bunch of benefits aside
from the massive address space
2515 [19:38:26] <Error451> I shall look in to this
2516 [19:38:28] <Error451> :)
2517 [19:38:35] *** Quits: isnice (~isnice@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2518 [19:39:35] *** Quits: TomyWork (~tomy@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2519 [19:40:07] <Error451> but whatever those features are, I
doubt 98% of internet user will ever need these featues
2520 [19:40:42] *** Joins: Quatroking (~Q@replaced-ip )
2521 [19:41:03] <dgp> 98% of the internet being the people that
can still get ipv4 addresses?
2522 [19:41:17] <greycat> The last time I looked at IPv6 at all,
the web sites that decide whether you have IPv6 said "Nope, you
still don't have it." At which point I looked at my
ISP's web pages, and they said they support IPv6 if your DSL
modem is one of the ones shown below. Which of course mine is not.
2523 [19:41:21] <`Kevin> you should rephrase that as 98% do not
care about how it works as long as it works
2524 [19:41:23] <dgp> have you tried requesting a second ipv4
address for something like DNS recently?
2525 [19:41:48] <Error451> 98% being the ppl that only use a
browser
2526 [19:41:53] *** Quits: zifxify (~zifxify@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2527 [19:42:01] <Dagger> I've had a hell of a time getting v4
addresses myself. I have about two dozen machines here, and my ISP
only wants to give me one single address
2528 [19:42:18] <dgp> Error451: 98% of people will be pissed when
they are stuck behind some shitty CGNAT
2529 [19:42:24] <Dagger> they don't even have a mechanism to
get the /27 or /26 or so that I need
2530 [19:42:35] <`Kevin> Error451: I also think its more about
sustainability versus what features
2531 [19:42:37] <Ool> number of V4 is fix, but NAT can grow more
2532 [19:42:51] <Dagger> and I'm definitely not the only
person who has more than a single machine at home
2533 [19:43:05] <dgp> Dagger: I can't even get a second ipv4
address for a machine sitting in a DC these days
2534 [19:43:19] <dgp> Ool: and NAT is a stinking pile of shit
2535 [19:43:27] *** Joins: czart (~czart@replaced-ip )
2536 [19:43:31] *** Joins: Pr0metheus (~nezos@replaced-ip )
2537 [19:43:31] <Ool> exactly :P
2538 [19:43:34] <`Kevin> dgp: i dont think most would care about
that but I completely agree about NAT
2539 [19:43:35] *** Joins: isnice (~isnice@replaced-ip )
2540 [19:43:35] *** Joins: bootdisk (~bootdisk@replaced-ip )
2541 [19:43:47] <`Kevin> v4 is only here still because of the
bandaids NAT has provided
2542 [19:44:04] <__m4ch1n3__> tfw behinf isp nat and not a single
port open
2543 [19:44:08] *** Quits: trumee (~trumee@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2544 [19:44:14] <`Kevin> otoh I would much prefer some public IP
space and a simple fw set than relying on NAT
2545 [19:44:18] <`Kevin> (v6)
2546 [19:44:18] *** Joins: zabow (~zabow@replaced-ip )
2547 [19:44:25] *** Joins: linuxer (~Linuxer@replaced-ip )
2548 [19:44:45] *** Joins: towo` (~towo@replaced-ip )
2549 [19:44:48] *** linuxer is now known as Guest30836
2550 [19:44:56] * dgp works in "IoT" and CGNAT is a major pain
in the ass
2551 [19:44:57] *** Quits: czart__ (~czart@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2552 [19:45:39] <Error451> you forget that this is is circle jerk
of nerds ... because that's what IRC is by default
2553 [19:45:54] <Error451> "people" want facebook and
don't care much else
2554 [19:46:00] <`Kevin> dgp: I can imagine :( otoh people are
going to blame ISP who is then going to blame the manuf and its just
a circular blame going nowhere
2555 [19:46:06] *** Parts: redips (~spider@replaced-ip ) ()
2556 [19:46:12] <FinalX> luckily all our customers have had native
ipv6 allocations routed to them and on their internal networks from
their modems for quite a few years now :) there's the
occasional calls when site owners (including Facebook) don't
have their stuff in order, and especially Apple was a big problem,
but most issues have passed :)
2557 [19:46:19] <dgp> Error451: see what `Kevin wrote above
2558 [19:47:01] *** Joins: trumee (~trumee@replaced-ip )
2559 [19:47:30] <dgp> Error451: people might not care that their
traffic is going through multiple layers of wonky garbage but
they'll soon rant like a crazy asshole on twitter as soon as it
stops working
2560 [19:47:52] *** Joins: zifxify (~zifxify@replaced-ip )
2561 [19:47:53] <FinalX> NAT is more annoying and slowing things
down than it is a solution, but for providers that don't have
enough IPv4 to allocate, it can be an interesting stopgap. Ziggo/UPC
were taking it to the extreme here, though. And they're now
offering a choice to new customers: 1) Native IPv4 and no IPv6 or 2)
IPv6 and NAT'd IPv4.
2562 [19:47:57] <greycat> What are ordinary web site owners
supposed to be doing with respect to IPv6?
2563 [19:47:59] <Error451> twitter and c=facebook deserve to die
2564 [19:48:04] *** Joins: hypn0 (~h@replaced-ip )
2565 [19:48:25] <`Kevin> Error451: IF people refuse to give up v4
and it continues to shrink space wise then ISPs may become so
constrained that they do stupid things wrt NAT to save IP space
leading to potential connection problems and such
2566 [19:48:32] <dgp> greycat: make sure their host supports IPv6
and if not move to one of the many that do
2567 [19:48:40] <greycat> "Move." I see.
2568 [19:48:49] <`Kevin> Error451: it isnt a question of do we
need v6 for features because we want to nerd out on it... rather it
has to happen
2569 [19:49:10] <FinalX> greycat: Make sure their site actually
responds and works well on it, and because of Apple, preferably make
sure that all realservers behind loadbalancers (combination of
ipv4+ipv6) all share the same session data. Apple in particular was
eh, an odd duckling. Not preferring IPv6, but sort of Russian
roulette as to what you'd get for different resources in pages.
2570 [19:49:14] <dgp> greycat: If a hosting provider doesn't
support IPv6 by now do you really trust them to host your stuff?
2571 [19:49:15] <Error451> for "the internet" yes
2572 [19:49:31] <Error451> but what I want to do on my LAN works
2573 [19:49:40] <greycat> dgp: well, I live in a particular bubble
called the US, where we don't have IPv6, like, anywhere at all.
2574 [19:49:42] <Error451> but like I said
2575 [19:49:46] <Dagger> greycat: preferably their current host
would support v6. if their current host doesn't do v6 at this
point, it raises some rather worrying questions about how well that
host is run
2576 [19:49:50] *** Quits: Guest30836 (~Linuxer@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2577 [19:49:51] <greycat> I don't have it at home, or at
work, or on my VPS.
2578 [19:49:59] <FinalX> All our Shared Hosting packages have had
IPv6 on them for 10+ years now, and all our colocation users had it
available natively as well.
2579 [19:50:08] <Error451> I shall look in to the other features
of IPv^before I judge on using it on my LAN
2580 [19:50:25] <dgp> greycat: big us providers like rackspace
have working IPv6 on their vps
2581 [19:50:26] <Error451> *6
2582 [19:50:28] <FinalX> Speed is another for IPv6. Less overhead
than it might seem.
2583 [19:50:41] <Dagger> although in fairness, NAT64 works fairly
well for hitting random websites. if you don't mind the extra
latency hit
2584 [19:50:45] <`Kevin> Error451: if you want to deal with
v4<->v6 NAT woes later on go for it ;D
2585 [19:50:57] <greycat> My VPS's "ip a" says
"inet6 fe80::1a60:24ff:fe77:5cec/64 scope link". Is that a
"real" address or one of the fake thingies?
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2587 [19:50:59] <FinalX> To promote IPv6, we even have rate
limiting on our usenet server for IPv4 and not for IPv6 ;)
2588 [19:51:07] <FinalX> `Kevin: "fake"
2589 [19:51:17] <Dagger> Error451: the thing is... if you're
connected to the internet, then there's no judging required.
you need v6 on the LAN. you don't have the option of just using
it as far as the router
2590 [19:51:23] <Error451> thing is ... I live in .NL and we still
have a few spare IPv4 spaces iirc
2591 [19:51:24] *** Joins: turfal (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip )
2592 [19:51:24] <Dagger> Error451: your end machines need v6 in
order to use v6
2593 [19:51:56] <dgp> greycat: that's a link local address
which is a real address but only usable between machines connected
on that network
2594 [19:52:01] <FinalX> fe80::* are "link-local" add...
2595 [19:52:03] <FinalX> that
2596 [19:52:15] <Dagger> (unless you plan on switching your
network to a proxy for internet access? that's a valid choice,
but one that nobody uses these days)
2597 [19:52:19] <FinalX> Error451: providers might, not the NL
2598 [19:52:19] <Error451> I'd prolly need another router
first ... I think all my hardware supports 6
2599 [19:52:26] *** Quits: LtL (~ltl@replaced-ip ) (Quit: LtL)
2600 [19:52:35] <greycat> dgp: well, there you go. That's
what my VPS provider has.
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2602 [19:53:20] <Dagger> .nl is at 12% deployment, there's
definitely at least one major ISP doing v6 there
2603 [19:53:22] <dgp> greycat: you might just need to configure
it. I know rackspace at least gave people v6 addresses but then
discovered they don't work on any vps created before a certain
time :(
2604 [19:53:31] <FinalX> Error451: Only new LIRs get a /22 from
the last blocks RIPE still has. It's a Dutch provider I work
for, and we even sell /29's to customers for home lines.
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2606 [19:53:39] <FinalX> Dagger: Yeah, us :)
2607 [19:53:56] *** Quits: turfal (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip ) (Client Quit)
2608 [19:54:02] <greycat> ... shit, that wasn't my VPS. That
was my home PC. Hold on.
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2612 [19:54:31] <greycat> VPS's "ip a" output does
not even have an inet6 line at all.
2613 [19:54:39] <greycat> except on "lo" of course
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2615 [19:55:04] <FinalX> "ip" is a bit awkward with
ipv6.
2616 [19:55:22] <FinalX> "ip a ls" shows inet6 usually
if you have them, but "ip route ls" will not, only
"ip -6 route ls" does :|
2617 [19:55:35] *** Quits: faw (~faw@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2618 [19:56:05] *** Quits: cdown (~cdown@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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2626 [19:59:08] <greycat> "ip -6 a" shows only lo, and
"ip -6 route" shows "default dev venet0 metric 1 mtu
1500 hoplimit 0"
2627 [19:59:24] <greycat> "ip -6 route ls" is the same
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2629 [20:00:36] *** Joins: lyr3 (~user@replaced-ip )
2630 [20:01:08] <greycat> Kernel is 2.6.32-042stab127.2 original
image was Debian squeeze, I upgraded it to wheezy a while back.
OpenVZ container.
2631 [20:01:16] *** Joins: apus_ (~apus@replaced-ip )
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2633 [20:01:28] *** Quits: orti (~orti@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
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2635 [20:02:50] *** Quits: zabow (~zabow@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2636 [20:03:23] <dgp> I think that might have just become EOL
2637 [20:03:44] *** Quits: dob1 (~dob1@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2638 [20:03:48] *** Joins: OS-35117 (~starry@replaced-ip )
2639 [20:03:49] *** Joins: wildlander (~wildlande@replaced-ip )
2640 [20:04:30] <greycat> fair point
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2643 [20:04:58] <OS-35117> hi
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2645 [20:05:04] *** Quits: Slashman (~Slash@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
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2652 [20:06:23] <dgp> There should be some providers in the US
that sell "kvm" vps now. You have complete control over
the kernel etc in that situation
2653 [20:06:52] <bites> even google cloud doesn't support
ipv6 on the vm instances directly.
2654 [20:06:59] * FinalX really enjoys Vultr
2655 [20:07:12] <FinalX> I even have my own AS and /39 IPv6-range
BGP'ing from my VPS's there.
2656 [20:07:23] <FinalX> (for free)
2657 [20:07:24] <dgp> The one I started using recently lets you
upload an iso via SFTP and run debian installer via VNC instead of
having to fix their pre-made images
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2679 [20:18:43] <jhutchins_wk> I usually find the lag on ipv6 is
10x or more higher than ipv4.
2680 [20:18:50] *** Quits: theBOFH (~iguana@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2681 [20:19:56] <Dagger> jhutchins_wk: something's wrong with
your connection in specific, then. the average for most countries is
either no difference or a slight advantage in v6's favor
2682 [20:19:59] *** Joins: timahvo1 (~rogue@replaced-ip )
2683 [20:20:08] <Dagger> failing that, a slight advantage in
v4's favor. not a 10x latency difference
2684 [20:20:59] *** Joins: tio43 (~whoami@replaced-ip )
2685 [20:21:16] <greycat> First guess: his ipv6 is actually being
tunneled through something?
2686 [20:21:35] *** Quits: mortnz (~morten@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2687 [20:21:36] *** Joins: mazoltov (~iguana@replaced-ip )
2688 [20:21:37] <jhutchins_wk> Google Fiber.
2689 [20:22:02] <Dagger> overloaded 6rd is possible. or it could
just be that the ISP happens to have terrible routing for whatever
reason
2690 [20:22:25] <jhutchins_wk> ...or 6 is just laggier.
2691 [20:22:50] <Dagger> it's not, though
2692 [20:22:55] <jhutchins_wk> There are also a number of features
in ipv4 that aren't implemented yet.
2693 [20:23:18] <jhutchins_wk> in 6.
2694 [20:23:21] *** Joins: turfal (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip )
2695 [20:24:18] *** Quits: sauvin (sauvin@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2696 [20:24:23] <Dagger> I kinda find it hard to believe that
Google Fibre is that bad though... I don't suppose you happen
to have/can get traceroutes to the same destination over v4 and v6
that you could show me?
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2699 [20:25:27] <Ouroboro> weren't we supposed to run out of
ipv4 addresses years ago? yet you can still get as many as you want
for almost free
2700 [20:25:28] *** Joins: Rogalian (~cools@replaced-ip )
2701 [20:26:06] <Ouroboro> i did finally enable ipv6 on my vps
just for the hell of it
2702 [20:27:18] <greycat> Not sure when you joined, but if you
read back several minutes, other people said they *cannot* get IPv4
addresses so easily.
2703 [20:27:35] <Ouroboro> missed that
2704 [20:27:53] <Dagger> I've not been able to get as many as
I want. I can't even get more than one here, there's not
even a mechanism for doing so
2705 [20:27:56] *** Quits: dionysus69 (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2706 [20:28:06] <Ouroboro> you can get about 10 of them for about
$30 a year
2707 [20:28:26] <dgp> Ouroboro: with the big host in Germany I use
for some clients you have to request single ipv4 addresses and give
them a good reason. Needing a second address because some TLD needs
two distinct ipv4 address for dns isn't good enough
2708 [20:28:36] <Dagger> the fact that you consider paying per IP
to be reasonable is saying something
2709 [20:28:39] *** Quits: shabius (~shabius@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2710 [20:29:05] <Ouroboro> Dagger: that's just the cost of
the vps, the addresses come with that
2711 [20:29:06] *** Quits: isnice (~isnice@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2712 [20:29:41] <Dagger> I get my current VPSs at $4/year, so
that's still $26/year
2713 [20:30:00] <greycat> Seems I'm overpaying.
2714 [20:30:21] <greycat> and $4/yr does not sound believable to
me
2715 [20:30:23] *** Guest99648 is now known as Haudegen
2716 [20:30:26] <Ouroboro> me either
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2719 [20:30:56] <Ouroboro> i was just going to say that i have no
idea how they can offer them for $30 a year, must be a loss leader
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2722 [20:31:22] <Dagger>
replaced-url
2723 [20:31:26] <Dagger> my bad. $4.11/year
2724 [20:31:28] <greycat> At first glance I thought he meant
$4/month which is still less than I'm paying, but at least
it's the right order of magnitude.
2725 [20:31:33] *** Joins: sz0 (uid110435@replaced-ip )
2726 [20:31:41] <Ouroboro> you make one tiny support request, and
you blow that budget
2727 [20:32:08] <dgp> 1 NAT IPv4 address .. ugh
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2731 [20:33:43] <Dagger> dgp: and as a result of that,
everybody's immediate response was that they didn't
believe the price
2732 [20:33:47] <Dagger> do you think that's a coincidence?
:p
2733 [20:33:53] <Ouroboro> dgp: which big host in germany?
2734 [20:34:03] <dgp> Ouroboro: hetzner
2735 [20:34:04] *** Quits: frostschutz (~frostschu@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2736 [20:34:40] <dgp> They used to give you a block of addresses.
Now you get 1 and have to beg and pay for anymore
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2740 [20:35:58] <Lyberta> does "set -e" reset the exit
code of the previous command? or better yet, how to check if command
output has string under "set -e"?
2741 [20:36:21] <greycat> set -e in a sh or bash program makes the
program exit if certain things happen
2742 [20:36:42] <Ouroboro> dgp: on which service? their cloud vps
has a 'floating ip' feature, i believe that you get some
number for free
2743 [20:36:48] <greycat> If you DON'T want the program to
completely exit when those things happen, stop using set -e.
2744 [20:37:06] <dgp> Ouroboro: root server. 50 euro a month one
2745 [20:37:24] <Ouroboro> dgp: strange
2746 [20:37:31] <Lyberta> greycat, so if I use "if [ $? == 0
]; then" do I set to then "set -e" after the check?
2747 [20:37:39] *** Joins: Greerso (~greerso@replaced-ip )
2748 [20:37:51] <greycat> If you use set -e, chances are your
program will never GET TO that check, because it will already have
exited.
2749 [20:37:59] <greycat> set -e is just terrible.
2750 [20:38:10] *** Quits: dreamon (~dreamon@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2751 [20:38:22] <Lyberta> greycat, I use "set +e" before
running the command - grep in my case
2752 [20:38:31] <greycat> :rolleyes:
2753 [20:38:41] <greycat>
replaced-url
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2757 [20:39:10] <dgp> Ouroboro: maybe it changed recently but I
gave up trying with them after asking for another ip as .es
registrar requires two distinct ip addresses and that wasn't a
good enough reason for them.. so now that client is paying .50 euro
a year per domain to have the domain on hetzners dns server
2758 [20:40:02] <Ouroboro> dgp: maybe it is different on different
services, or maybe i am misunderstanding what 'floating
ip' means
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2761 [20:40:57] <bites> hetzner lets you order small subnets.
2762 [20:41:05] *** Joins: Sir_Designer (~Sir_Desig@replaced-ip )
2763 [20:41:22] <Lyberta> greycat, so.. should I ditch bash for a
better language?
2764 [20:41:35] <greycat> No, you should STOP FUCKING USING set -e
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2767 [20:41:52] <greycat> I don't know how to make it any
clearer.
2768 [20:42:05] <Ouroboro> also, i don't know whether those
'floating ips' have the same features, e.g. whether they
allow rdns
2769 [20:42:19] <Lyberta> greycat, but I don't like having to
check for exit status after each command, is there a workaround?
2770 [20:42:38] <greycat> Fine, then stop using bash/sh.
2771 [20:42:40] <Ouroboro> Lyberta: sure, just don't check it
:P
2772 [20:42:45] <greycat> Also stop using C, because C has the
same model.
2773 [20:43:04] <dgp> just throw the computer out of the window
and be done with it
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2776 [20:43:11] <dgp> go and live on a farm and be happy
2777 [20:43:16] <Ouroboro> ^^ this
2778 [20:43:32] <greycat> Lazy spoiled kids these days.
2779 [20:43:52] <Lyberta> greycat, well, Linux is written in C so
stop using C is basically saying to ditch Debian in favor of RedoxOS
2780 [20:44:02] *** Quits: indistylo (~indistylo@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2781 [20:44:06] <Ouroboro> unfortunately, farms have tons of
computers too these days
2782 [20:44:08] *** Joins: briner (~briner@replaced-ip )
2783 [20:44:09] <greycat> By using I mean writing programs in.
2784 [20:44:33] <Lyberta> greycat, I don't think I wrote pure
C... well, maybe a few times
2785 [20:44:39] <greycat> It shows.
2786 [20:44:47] * annadane giggles
2787 [20:44:53] <Lyberta> I like my C++ exceptions
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2791 [20:46:16] <Ouroboro> you can probably implement exceptions
in posix shell if you really want
2792 [20:46:26] * dgp likes C because he lives on a farm and cows
aren't powerful enough to run the C++ stdlib
2793 [20:46:55] * greycat tosses
replaced-url
2794 [20:47:17] <Ouroboro> greycat: luckily, i don't have web
right now :P
2795 [20:47:22] <Lyberta> any ideas how to make lines 27-38 work?
replaced-url
2796 [20:47:55] <jhutchins_wk> Error checking is what drove me
away from C and from programming in general.
2797 [20:48:40] <Ouroboro> jhutchins_wk: a lot of that is a
consequence of poor language design
2798 [20:49:12] * dgp wonder how you design something better on a PDP
back in before-facebook time
2799 [20:49:13] <Ouroboro> especially the part where in c every
library function has its own error handling convention
2800 [20:49:49] <dgp> Ouroboro: That's better than everything
have the same bad convention ;)
2801 [20:49:54] <dgp> s/have/having/
2802 [20:50:03] <Ouroboro> that is technically correct
2803 [20:50:35] <Lyberta> dgp, I wonder why in 2018 people run
crap designed for PDP
2804 [20:50:59] <Lyberta> thankfully, C++ modules will remove
header files in new code
2805 [20:51:02] <dgp> Lyberta: because C can do literally
anything. All of your new shiny languages can't do anything C
can't
2806 [20:51:14] <Ouroboro> dgp: i agree though, people had
different priorities in those days, but it is not necessarily a
justification
2807 [20:51:46] <Lyberta> dgp, templates? can C do templates?
constexpr? can C parse regex at compile time?
2808 [20:52:13] <dgp> Lyberta: Can C++ do that without a stdlib
that implements it?
2809 [20:52:20] <greycat> "Do" means "produce
results", not "be formatted in a certain way before
compiling".
2810 [20:52:46] <Ouroboro> Lyberta: you can definitely implement
the first and the third, not sure what the second is
2811 [20:52:55] <greycat> A C program can produce the same results
given the same input as your C++ template obfuscated
whatever-the-hell it is, it just won't look the same.
2812 [20:52:55] *** Quits: MichaelOF (~michael@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2813 [20:53:14] <dgp> Lyberta: Using C++ doesn't magically
convert your machine into some sort of super machine that works on a
higher level of instruction set
2814 [20:53:32] <Ouroboro> Lyberta: probably all of the
compile-time stuff can be implemented in cpp
2815 [20:53:51] <Ouroboro> cpp being c preprocessor
2816 [20:53:54] <Lyberta> good luck making that maintainable
2817 [20:54:02] <dgp> excuses
2818 [20:54:15] <Lyberta> afaik c++ good compile time vectors and
maps now
2819 [20:54:35] <Lyberta> and I still dunno how to fix my set -e
problem
2820 [20:54:42] <Lyberta> got*
2821 [20:54:48] *** Quits: jhutchins_wk (~jonathan@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Lost terminal)
2822 [20:54:48] <greycat> You were told.
2823 [20:55:19] <dgp> Why not just use python and be done with it?
2824 [20:55:41] <greycat> If that answer keeps this person out of
#bash forever, I support that answer.
2825 [20:56:22] <Lyberta> I dunno if official debian docker image
comes with python preinstalled
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2827 [20:56:24] *** Joins: jhutchins_wk (~jonathan@replaced-ip )
2828 [20:56:29] <Ouroboro> i haven't been to #bash in a year,
i have forgotten literally everything
2829 [20:56:43] <annadane> greycat's site still exists ^
2830 [20:56:49] <greycat> Oh, it's a docker person too. That
would earn an automatic /ignore from me.
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2834 [20:57:32] <annadane>
replaced-url
2835 [20:57:35] <Ouroboro> dgp: do you really live on a farm?
2836 [20:57:35] <Lyberta> I haven't found any problems with
docker, maybe it's just your elitism
2837 [20:57:46] <dgp> Ouroboro: no, but pretty close to it.
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2840 [20:57:56] <Ouroboro> nod
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2842 [20:59:31] <dgp> greycat: shipping a whole os is more
maintainable than packaging stuff properly
2843 [21:00:11] *** Quits: Rogalian (~cools@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2844 [21:00:25] <bites> the base stretch docker image does not
come with python.
2845 [21:00:27] <Lyberta> dgp, the fact that apt allows only one
version of the package installed is already a red flag
2846 [21:00:28] <Ouroboro> some ship a whole computer
2847 [21:01:11] *** Joins: Rogalian (~cools@replaced-ip )
2848 [21:01:13] <dgp> Lyberta: It's like that might break
stuff or something
2849 [21:01:32] <dgp> apt can handle installing packages for
multiple different cpu families at a time though
2850 [21:02:04] <dgp> s/at a time/at the same time/
2851 [21:02:24] <greycat> Only libraries and other things that
don't share a file.
2852 [21:02:33] <Ouroboro> that is a limitation of the *nix fs
structure, not apt
2853 [21:03:04] <dgp> greycat: yeah, but shared files should be in
an all package really
2854 [21:03:42] <dgp> Lyberta: and debian ships multiple versions
of php, python etc that can be installed at the same time
2855 [21:03:58] <Lyberta> dgp, they are different packages, right?
2856 [21:04:01] <bites> those have different names.
2857 [21:04:12] <greycat> dgp: I mean, you can't install
coreutils:i386 and coreutils:amd64 because both packages would try
to provide /bin/ls
2858 [21:04:38] *** Joins: mak2 (~mats@replaced-ip )
2859 [21:04:58] <Lyberta> dgp, I think in this day and age every
user should have their own repo and pull stuff from global
filesystem only if necessary
2860 [21:05:04] <greycat> *plonk*
2861 [21:05:11] <greycat> jeeeeesus
2862 [21:05:40] <Lyberta> when I build program I pull c++ libs
into my user folder and link them
2863 [21:05:52] *** Quits: APLU (~mulx@replaced-ip ) (Quit: !suicide)
2864 [21:06:02] <Lyberta> same with pip
2865 [21:06:10] <dgp> greycat: true. Just being able to install
ARM libs and headers on an amd64 machine is pretty major for me at
least
2866 [21:06:37] *** Quits: mkolenda (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2867 [21:06:49] <dgp> Lyberta: so you want to have duplicates of
stuff all over the place with no hope of keeping it all up to date?
2868 [21:07:03] <Lyberta> dgp, up to the user
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2871 [21:07:22] <Ouroboro> dgp: have you never heard of winsxs? :P
2872 [21:07:23] <greycat> dgp: isn't that the python
virtualenv model?
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2875 [21:07:49] <Lyberta> yes, you create as many virtualenvs as
you need
2876 [21:07:56] <Lyberta> Guix supports that
2877 [21:08:08] <dgp> Lyberta: they'll love you when it turns
out whatever locally installed version of openssl you link against
turns out to be a piece of shit
2878 [21:08:31] *** Quits: isnice (isnice@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2879 [21:08:45] <Ouroboro> let's not talk about the debian
version of openssl
2880 [21:08:47] *** Joins: TheManWithNoSock (~paige@replaced-ip )
2881 [21:08:55] <Lyberta> dgp, in some cases I'm forced to
use libssl1.0.0 because that's what is required by proprietary
software
2882 [21:09:59] <bites> but there are already formats that do
that. what sense does it make for debian to implement that?
2883 [21:10:05] *** Joins: isnice (isnice@replaced-ip )
2884 [21:10:10] <bites> build an appimage or a snap package if you
need to.
2885 [21:10:34] <Lyberta> I guess I'll have to at some point
2886 [21:10:59] <dgp> Lyberta: and Debian supplies old versions of
libraries where needed for situations like that. There's not
need to have multiple copies of stuff all over the place
2887 [21:11:04] <bites> for debian to replace apt with something
like that would be insanity.
2888 [21:11:25] <dgp> s/not need/no need/
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2892 [21:12:08] <Ouroboro> yeah, the thing about apt is that it
actually works, most of the time, let's try to not break that
2893 [21:12:45] <dgp> What he's talking about sounds like
buildroot inception. You have on buildroot userland with just enough
to download another copy of buildroot to compile another userland
with whatever single application you need in it
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2903 [21:17:29] <Ouroboro> i guess i don't see a reason why
you couldn't have a package manager that creates a tree
structure of isolated packages
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2906 [21:18:59] <Ouroboro> it would just be more complex to
maintain, i think that is the main argument against
2907 [21:19:09] <greycat> Because packages exist on a system, and
they modify and affect the system. They provide files in a single
file system space, and they provide services in a single init
system's service name space, and some of these services listen
on TCP ports, etc.
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2912 [21:20:36] <Ouroboro> yes, to the extent that there is a
package called 'the system', of which there can only be
one version, it does impose a limitation
2913 [21:20:47] <Lyberta> hence why ~/.local should become a root
directory for programs under that user
2914 [21:20:54] *** Quits: OS-35117 (~starry@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2915 [21:21:07] <greycat> Sounds like you want to reinvent virtual
machines or containers or something.
2916 [21:21:07] *** Joins: mebeeps (~mebeeps@replaced-ip )
2917 [21:21:07] <dgp> why not call it .trashfire
2918 [21:21:08] <mebeeps> Wow! Feeling sexy :P
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2920 [21:21:46] <mazoltov> hey mebeeps
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2943 [21:33:40] <hxmuller> hello, is vanilla kernel compilation
question a topic for here, or #debian-next?
2944 [21:33:53] *** Joins: Schepeers (~xchat@replaced-ip )
2945 [21:34:06] <greycat> if you're building a .deb of it
according to the Debian Kernel Handbook, then it's here
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2950 [21:36:41] <hxmuller> greycat: thanks, will ask in a bit.
have to run an errand suddenly.
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3005 [21:55:41] <valeech> Hello - What is a good method to verify
a process I want to pin to a specific cpu with taskset has actually
been pinned t othat cpu? When I run taskset on a process, ps still
shows it running on the original cpu. Does taskset move the process
immediately or over some time period?
3006 [21:56:10] <greycat> If you can't tell whether it worked
or not, then it must not have been a vitally important thing to do.
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3066 [22:26:28] <Kocane> Am I just bad at Googling or is it not
possible to get Intel Quick Sync hwacc for h264, etc, on Debian?
3067 [22:26:36] <Kocane> I saw some Ubuntu guides but I guess it
don't really help me.
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3072 [22:29:13] <dgp> Kocane: package names etc in the ubuntu
guide should line up with debian.
3073 [22:29:37] <Kocane> dgp: I tried the deb I downloaded as per
someguys guide; intel-graphics-update-tool_2.0.6_amd64.deb
3074 [22:29:42] <Kocane> Its for ubuntu 17.04
3075 [22:30:05] <Kocane> Fails with missing package fonts-symbola
and aptdaemon
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3077 [22:30:32] <greycat> Well, debian has fonts-symbola
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3079 [22:30:55] <greycat> And "aptdaemon" is
"purely virtual", so a good "apt-get -f install"
ought to do something.
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3081 [22:31:25] <greycat> Not endorsing this notion of
"download and install a .deb mentioned in some random ubuntu
guide", but if it works....
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3083 [22:31:34] <jelly> ,v aptdaemon
3084 [22:31:35] <judd> Package: aptdaemon on amd64 -- wheezy:
0.45-2+deb7u1; jessie: 1.1.1-4+deb8u1
3085 [22:31:46] <greycat> Ah, may need to add a jessie line.
3086 [22:32:10] <jelly> ,v python3-aptdaemon
3087 [22:32:11] <judd> Package: python3-aptdaemon on amd64 --
jessie: 1.1.1-4+deb8u1
3088 [22:32:55] <jelly> ,bug rm aptdaemon
3089 [22:32:58] <judd> Bug
replaced-url
3090 [22:33:10] <Kocane> greycat how is it I add the jessie line
to get some jessie packages?
3091 [22:33:37] <jelly> what is intel quick sync?
3092 [22:33:53] <jelly> hw decoding of h264 is done via VAAPI
3093 [22:34:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1596
3094 [22:34:01] <Kocane> how about encoding?
3095 [22:34:29] <Kocane> It's my understanding that, that is
what Quick Sync can be used for.. Hwacc for encoding
3096 [22:35:50] <jelly> I have no idea about that
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3114 [22:48:20] <Kocane> I installed some aptdaemon and
fonts-symbola debs i found
3115 [22:48:21] <Kocane> for Jessie
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3117 [22:48:29] <Kocane> I don't know how bad an idea that is
3118 [22:48:34] <Kocane> running Stretch
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3152 [23:05:40] <Tazmain> Hi all, if I wanted to use debian for my
work laptop (arch user at home) there is a unstable repo to be more
up to date right ?
3153 [23:05:52] *** Quits: ongolaBoy (~ongolaBoy@replaced-ip ) (Quit: leaving)
3154 [23:05:57] <Tazmain> like I would like to keep up with VS
code and intelliJ
3155 [23:06:03] <well_laid_lawn> yep
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3158 [23:06:59] <Tazmain> dam google I want to find results for
debina not ubuntu
3159 [23:07:36] <Tazmain> how stable is plasma on debian? Its
solid on arch, and kaosx
3160 [23:08:12] *** Quits: PoaB (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip ) (Quit: PoaB)
3161 [23:08:17] <mefistofeles> Tazmain: debian uses the LTS plasma
release, which is pretty stable
3162 [23:08:41] <Tazmain> what version is plasma-desktop on
currently ?
3163 [23:08:57] <Tazmain> I am on 5.12
3164 [23:09:00] <greycat> ,v plasma-desktop
3165 [23:09:01] <judd> Package: plasma-desktop on amd64 -- wheezy:
4:4.8.4-6; jessie: 4:4.11.13-2; stretch: 4:5.8.6-1; buster:
4:5.12.5-1; sid: 4:5.12.5-1
3166 [23:09:02] <mefistofeles> Tazmain: 5.8 is the LTS
3167 [23:09:13] <mefistofeles> greycat: thanks
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3169 [23:09:21] <greycat> if you're on 5.12 then you're
in #debian-next territory at least
3170 [23:09:22] <farruinn> Tazmain: packages.debian.org
3171 [23:09:26] *** Quits: smolboye (~smolboye@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
3172 [23:09:29] <Tazmain> oh so if I use sid I can get 5.12 ?
3173 [23:09:33] <mefistofeles> sure
3174 [23:09:40] <mefistofeles> or buster
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3176 [23:09:55] <greycat> you just said you already had 5.12
3177 [23:09:57] <Tazmain> greycat, isn't that unstable ?
3178 [23:10:02] <Tazmain> yeah on my arch install :p
3179 [23:10:07] <Tazmain> picking a distro for work
3180 [23:10:08] <greycat> ...
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3183 [23:10:42] <annadane> the newest upstream is 5.13 which
should be in sid soon, sid currently has AFAIK, 5.12, but it's
your call whether you want to use unstable for a newer plasma,
it's obviously riskier than stable
3184 [23:10:50] <Tazmain> I know 5.12 is good, that's why I
asked
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3187 [23:11:03] <greycat> judd just told us what every branch has
3188 [23:11:15] *** Joins: Schepeers (~xchat@replaced-ip )
3189 [23:11:27] <Tazmain> hmm depends on how the package
maintainer is, kaos runs bleeding edge plasma without issues
3190 [23:11:44] <mefistofeles> Tazmain: just use whatever suits
you best
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3192 [23:12:42] <Tazmain> ,v intelliJ
3193 [23:12:43] <judd> No package named 'intelliJ' was
found in amd64.
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3195 [23:13:23] <somiaj> Tazmain: sure, but kaos isn't
debian, and so isn't a solution to someone running debian.
3196 [23:13:41] <Tazmain> somiaj, no I understand, and they focus
on just plasma as well.
3197 [23:14:27] <somiaj> debian often has to port, ensure that
these big desktops work on different arches besides i386/amd64
3198 [23:14:32] <annadane> if you just want a comparison of plasma
in different distros, i'd try ##linux
3199 [23:14:41] <annadane> debian support is unlikely to know
every single distribution
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do nothin' 'cause I'm cute and furry)
3202 [23:14:55] <Tazmain> debian still supports 32bit ?
3203 [23:15:30] <annadane> personally if i really wanted 5.13
i'd probably still just use debian as i'm most familiar
with it
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3206 [23:17:32] <mefistofeles> Tazmain: yes
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3210 [23:19:00] <annadane> i've only ever really gone through
2 KDE transitions, one took a long time, the other took a few days
3211 [23:19:37] <annadane> but stable of course will be 5.8 until
the next stable release so if you want to discuss 5.13 in debian
then #debian-next on irc.oftc.net is the place to be
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3217 [23:21:05] <Tazmain> I don't want 5.13
3218 [23:21:08] <Tazmain> 5.12 is fine
3219 [23:21:19] <Tazmain> I just want kdeconnect really, and the
fixes in 5.12
3220 [23:21:25] <annadane> oh, sorry, i obviously can't read
3221 [23:21:29] <annadane> yeah, sid is already on 5.12
3222 [23:21:38] <annadane> ,v plasma-desktop
3223 [23:21:39] <judd> Package: plasma-desktop on amd64 -- wheezy:
4:4.8.4-6; jessie: 4:4.11.13-2; stretch: 4:5.8.6-1; buster:
4:5.12.5-1; sid: 4:5.12.5-1
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3231 [23:30:20] <Tazmain> is it recommended to to a reinstall over
distr-upgrade?
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3233 [23:31:00] <babilen> dist-upgrade from what to what?
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3236 [23:31:37] <Tazmain> one version to the next
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3239 [23:32:14] <mefistofeles> Tazmain: dist-upgrade is fine as
long as you have been a good sys admin and know what you are doing
3240 [23:32:19] <mefistofeles> that is, follow recommendations
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3243 [23:32:37] <somiaj> Tazmain: what version are you running and
what version do you want to dist-upgrade too
3244 [23:32:39] <babilen> Tazmain: Generally speaking you want to
simply upgrade (dist-upgrade). I'm under the impression that
you might want to "upgrade" to testing or unstable. Is
that correct?
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3246 [23:33:06] <Tazmain> I would be running the unstable repo yes
3247 [23:33:12] <babilen> Upgrades between stable releases are
documented in the release notes
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3250 [23:34:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1583
3251 [23:34:23] <babilen> Tazmain: In that case, I'd add
testing and unstable repos first and set testing/buster as default
release. Then upgrade and once that's done, you can remove the
configuration to set the default release and install the packages
that are in unstable but not testing
3252 [23:34:30] <babilen> dpkg: tum
3253 [23:34:30] <dpkg> «echo 'APT::Default-Release
"testing";' >> /etc/apt/apt.conf», edit
sources.list, copy your non-security testing lines and change one
set to unstable, then apt-get update. Use apt-get -t unstable
install foo; to install foo from unstable rather than testing as
usual. WARNING to SYNAPTIC users: Synaptic ignores Default-Release:
set Preferences->Distribution.
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3256 [23:35:13] <Tazmain> babilen, and partition
3257 [23:35:24] <babilen> partition?
3258 [23:35:54] <Tazmain> yeah /root /home /var etc
3259 [23:36:01] <babilen> I'd also recommend to read
replaced-url
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3263 [23:36:39] <babilen> Sorry, I don't quite follow - How
does "partitioning" affect installing packages from
testing or unstable?
3264 [23:36:57] <Tazmain> babilen, oh if I had to reinstall or an
upgrade broke
3265 [23:37:04] <Tazmain> ooh unstable looks good
3266 [23:37:04] <annadane> upgrades have the best chance of
succeeding if you do it from a minimal install
3267 [23:37:15] <annadane> which is what i always do
3268 [23:37:39] <babilen> Tazmain: make sure to install
apt-listbugs and to configure it to show important bugs as well
3269 [23:38:22] <Tazmain> oh I didn't even know about this
3270 [23:38:25] <Tazmain> thanks babilen
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3272 [23:38:45] <babilen> Read the DebianUnstable wiki page, we
tried to summarise a lot of "best practices" there
3273 [23:39:10] <babilen> Also - Testing and unstable are
supported in #debian-next on irc.oftc.net rather than here
3274 [23:39:50] <Tazmain> will check it out
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3276 [23:41:40] <babilen> Testing and unstable are fairly boring
at the moment, but I only run a pretty minimal system (Xorg, i3,
gnome-terminal, emacs25, …) so I'm not sure how that
translates to larger DEs
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3278 [23:41:49] <babilen> boring as in "not much
breaking"
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