People who Joins , Parts or Quits a chatroom
this is #debian
an IRC -Channel at freenode
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2021-06-01)
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41 [00:25:47] <Ascavasaion> I installed Debian... and wanted to
install openmediavault... I followed instructions on
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102 [00:53:53] <capin> good evening, I'm trying to setup a
chroot environment for debian lenny but so far I'm not having
much luck,
replaced-url
103 [00:53:56] <capin> Does anyone have experience with this?
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254 [02:10:55] <jmak642> hi. just installed debian on a system I
dont intend to use the gui on and i'm a bit stuck. not really
looking to remake the wheel and install alternate packages, but I
cant figure out what included utility is intended for managing
partitions
255 [02:11:07] <jmak642> this is 9.3
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257 [02:12:40] <jmak642> i'm not sure and cant find the
partman package that the documentation references
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265 [02:20:55] <Megaf> jmak642: for console you can use cfdisk,
for gui gparted
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271 [02:24:33] <jmak642> Megaf: i'm trying to work with an
sdcard that isnt mounted presently, cfdisk doesn't appear to
see it, parted (I installed) does
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273 [02:25:11] <Megaf> removed it, insert it and with dmesg make
sure which device corresponds to it
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278 [02:26:59] <jmak642> [18407.994123] mmc0: card 59b4 removed
279 [02:26:59] <jmak642> [18424.078475] mmc0: cannot verify
signal voltage switch
280 [02:26:59] <jmak642> [18424.213214] mmc0: new ultra high
speed SDR104 SDXC card at address 59b4
281 [02:26:59] <jmak642> [18424.216672] mmcblk0: mmc0:59b4 SD128
121 GiB
282 [02:26:59] <jmak642> [18424.218155] mmcblk0: p1
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285 [02:27:13] <jmak642> sorry
286 [02:27:33] <jmak642> i could see the disk from lsblk
287 [02:27:47] <AndrewPRS> hi everyone! I have a big Music
collection, in the order of ~100Gb and I want to copy it to two 64Gb
external USB drives, how can I do this automatically? so that
somehow I can use both external drives and keep it in sync when I
rip more music?
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289 [02:28:04] <jmak642> i can certainly used parted to partition
it, i'm just interested in knowing the "right" way to
do it in debian
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302 [02:36:35] <Megaf> jmak642: the right way is the way you
prefer
303 [02:36:49] <Megaf> usually the standard tool is fdisk
304 [02:37:01] <Megaf> standard I mean, universal
305 [02:37:23] <Megaf> Tho I rather use cfdisk
306 [02:37:41] <jmak642> Megaf: i guess i got confused reading
the installer documentation where they reference a util called
partman
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308 [02:38:19] <Megaf> well, the installer has its own
partitioner, for installing Debian, but then we are talking about
different things I think
309 [02:39:49] <jmak642> to some extent yes i think so
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311 [02:40:43] <Megaf> I quite like installers partitioner
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705 [03:48:45] <econdudeawesome> Hello all. Facing a USB hard
drive I'm trying to pull data from, potentially dead. DMESG
output here:
replaced-url
706 [03:48:48] <econdudeawesome> Any suggestions?
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713 [03:52:15] <mDfRg> connect with SATA (mount in PC case) ,
make an image of it and use ddrescue
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717 [03:53:07] <econdudeawesome> mDfRg: It's an old Western
Digital passport -- how would I mount via SATA? Am I facing not
enough power or something?
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719 [03:53:46] <mDfRg> it'll be faster (even if it's
USB3) and you will have access to SMART data
720 [03:53:47] <cef> econdudeawesome: the USB interfaces
aren't very good at handling errors...
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724 [03:54:14] <econdudeawesome> cef: darn. Okay mDfRg -- I
assume I'll need some sort of usb to sata cable?
725 [03:54:25] <mDfRg> you'll have to put it off the case
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727 [03:54:39] *** Darby_Crash is now known as Darby_Crash_Away
728 [03:55:12] <cef> econdudeawesome: 1. they're slower. 2.
when you get an error, it resets the whole USB path, not just the
internal drive interface, so each reset takes much longer.
729 [03:55:14] *** Quits: beaver (~none@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Lost terminal)
730 [03:55:14] <mDfRg> no, no. Manually remove from the case and
put the bare disk into some PC or laptop (if you have a laptop with
2 SATA slots)
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732 [03:55:44] <cef> econdudeawesome: inside the USB case is a
USB to SATA board, and then a standard SATA drive.
733 [03:55:45] <mDfRg> it's 5 minutes of work and 20x faster
recovery time
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737 [03:56:22] <econdudeawesome> mDfRg: Gotcha. So basically
there is a bare SATA cable connection sitting internally, so
I'll need to pick a SATA cord to plug it in
738 [03:56:26] <mDfRg> even "USB drive" has normal SATA
interface, just like bare disk
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741 [03:56:43] <mDfRg> econdudeawesome, precisely
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744 [03:57:20] <econdudeawesome> I possibly have an extra one
sitting around--will need to crack case to check. In the off chance
I dont and have to wait for amazon -- any software solutions your
recommend?
745 [03:57:34] <mDfRg> the disk has SATA socket, you need regular
sata cable to plug it into PC motherboard just like you'd do
with a new disk
746 [03:57:36] <econdudeawesome> Since it's not being picked
up in lsusb I'm assuming I cant mount
747 [03:58:05] <mDfRg> BTW: cracking the case'd probably
void your warranty
748 [03:58:15] <cef> You can also get external drive cloning
boxes.. if it's really important you could pull out the old
drive, buy a new drive of the same or larger capacity, then straight
copy one to the other.. any hardware errors will be missed but you
then have something to work with without needing to fiddle with the
original again.
749 [03:58:15] <econdudeawesome> eh, I'm okay with it
750 [03:58:18] <mDfRg> so you'll be on your own after you do
it
751 [03:58:49] <econdudeawesome> cef: I can't recognize it
on debian or windows, though windows recognized a usb connection
752 [03:59:04] <hmonster> Hello, im stuck with debian installer
im getting error msg "fail install grub dummy" any
solution please
753 [03:59:10] <mDfRg> econdudeawesome, plug it in SATA and then
see what happens
754 [03:59:18] *** Darby_Crash_Away is now known as Darby_Crash
755 [03:59:22] <mDfRg> USB errors are unimporntant from now on
756 [03:59:23] <econdudeawesome> mDfRg: will do in a bit. Have to
power down first
757 [03:59:35] <cef> econdudeawesome: could be the USb interface,
or possibly the drive won't spin up.. either way, plugging it
in via SATA will give you much more info.
758 [03:59:45] <mDfRg> do you have a normal PC?
759 [03:59:49] <econdudeawesome> if USB interface, what next>
760 [03:59:52] <econdudeawesome> Yeah, got a tower
761 [04:00:14] <mDfRg> good, a spare SATA cable AND power calbe
for a disk?
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763 [04:00:27] <econdudeawesome> Hard drive is old--128GB,
purchased maybe 11 years ago
764 [04:00:37] <econdudeawesome> should be SATA or more likely
native USB interface?
765 [04:00:42] <cef> econdudeawesome: by USB interface I mean the
little board that is USB to SATA interface in the Passport.
766 [04:00:52] <cef> econdudeawesome: could even be PATA..
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768 [04:01:05] <darsie> Does a 'full-upgrade' with
'deb
replaced-url
769 [04:01:15] <mDfRg>
replaced-url
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771 [04:01:32] <cef> no drive has a direct USB interface except
USB sticks.. they've all got some interface board in there.
772 [04:01:34] <econdudeawesome> mDfRg: will do -that was my
first stop
773 [04:01:48] <mDfRg> econdudeawesome, good luck buddy
774 [04:01:57] <econdudeawesome>
replaced-url
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776 [04:02:04] <econdudeawesome> thanks mDfRg -- I'll report
in if yall care :)
777 [04:02:20] <cef> econdudeawesome: if it's just the
USB-> SATA or USB-> PATA interface, just go buy another
external box. if that's suitable. :D
778 [04:02:55] <mDfRg> will check logs, cause I'm hitting
the bed right now, but have my fingers crossed for you
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781 [04:06:45] <econdudeawesome>
replaced-url
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790 [04:08:52] <mDfRg> econdudeawesome, it's even written:
Serial ATA Hard Drive
791 [04:08:53] <econdudeawesome> And it is! Huzzah
792 [04:08:56] <mDfRg> meaning SATA
793 [04:09:08] <econdudeawesome> I'll be logging off now --
much obliged for the assistance!@
794 [04:09:19] <mDfRg> see ya
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815 [04:17:10] <econdudeawesome> access success. Now to copy
over. Looks like can be copied directly. Yall rock -- thanks!
816 [04:17:48] <jmak642> tbh this is the first time i've
heard of the controller board on an external drive actually being
the problem
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819 [04:18:31] <econdudeawesome> weird eh? Also possible -- both
usb micro cables may be old too
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821 [04:18:54] <econdudeawesome> damaged, even? Though they tend
to work for other USB micro devices
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823 [04:19:11] <jmak642> also possible, but i can't suggest
keeping anything worth having on an 11 year old external drive
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827 [04:19:47] <econdudeawesome> jmak642: I won't be making
that mistake again. It's been hanging around in the back of the
desk drawer waiting for me to get to it for... four years? five
years? A long time, regardless
828 [04:20:05] <econdudeawesome> Lazy, cold Friday nights make
for good side-item times :)
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832 [04:23:31] <jmak642> i've got another question: how
applicable to actual production linux clustering is the knowledge a
person would gain from building/using a raspbian cluster?
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835 [04:30:45] <econdudeawesome> I mean, configuring a hadoop or
beowolf cluster is configuring a hadoop or beowolf cluster.
836 [04:31:18] <econdudeawesome> Our enterprise hadoop corporate
trainer would talk about setting raspbian clusters as practice...
837 [04:31:23] <jmak642> so very applicable then?
838 [04:31:25] <econdudeawesome> (I've not done it
personally)
839 [04:31:44] <econdudeawesome> I would expect so. I dont think
you're facing an ARM issue with HDFS, worth googling around
840 [04:32:00] <econdudeawesome> There might be some issues with
tools built on top (e.g. Impala, Hive, etc.)
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844 [04:34:11] <jmak642> good to know. would it be more practical
to cluster several x86 machines?
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862 [04:55:45] <mrr0butt> Hi! Xfce power managment in stretch
lacks of "do nothing" on close lid option. Is there a way
to disable screen locking on close lid?
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867 [04:57:57] <mrr0butt> or disable screen locking on close lid
if hdmi display connected?
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876 [05:01:41] <mrr0butt> brb
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886 [05:05:19] <mrm> Is anyone else experiencing sporadically
recurring xfdesktop memory leaks in stable?
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889 [05:06:13] <mrm> I haven't found anything recent on that
front.
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907 [05:20:11] <paraxic> mrm: uhh like fonts leaking ?
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909 [05:20:47] <zerocool> guys i need some help
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911 [05:22:02] <zerocool> like two nights ago i pulled kernel
4.13 from stretch-backports, i need to roll back to stable kernel
912 [05:22:13] <zerocool> is that hard?
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916 [05:24:47] <zerocool> maybe a `apt-get purge
linux-image-4.13.0-0.bpo.1-amd64` ?
917 [05:25:16] <zerocool> and `update-grub`
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921 [05:26:40] <JackFrost> mrm: Hah, forgot about
replaced-url
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925 [05:29:25] <paraxic> don't suppose theres an easy way to
debug why noto color emoji essentially destroys pango is there? ( i
imagine its pango might be vte render )
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927 [05:31:21] <paraxic> also with the current config all xlib
based programs crash with major(139)(Render)
minor(20)(RenderAddGlyph) X failed request BadLength (poly request
too larger or internal error) ?
928 [05:31:44] <paraxic> ie dmenu_run or ssterm
929 [05:31:51] <paraxic> *stterm
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931 [05:32:11] <paraxic> image for reference its of gnome
terminal
replaced-url
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935 [05:34:29] <mrm> No not quite. For about a year now, every
now and then, I randomly see that xfdesktop is using a GB or so of
RAM, kill it, and don't have that problem again for a week or
two.
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939 [05:38:05] <mrm> I'm guessing it's either some bug
induced by constantly connecting and disconnecting an external
monitor, or possibly a compilication caused by interactions with
conky.
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942 [05:39:18] <JackFrost> I would doubt conky, but external
monitors I could believe a little more easily.
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945 [05:42:01] <JackFrost>
replaced-url
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952 [05:46:47] <mrm> Yea, only reason I'd suspect conky is
that conky just wigs out in gnome. Conky is the main reason
it's not a higher priority for me though, since whenever the
memory leak is bad, I see it and the process id listed and can kill
it easily.
953 [05:48:04] <mrm> JackFrost: Oh, thanks, that makes sense, and
sounds like it would cause what I'm seeing.
954 [05:48:51] <JackFrost> That bug might have been caused by the
GTK3 port so perhaps doesn't apply to the GTK2 version, though.
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957 [05:49:35] <mrm> Ah :-/ oh well.
958 [05:50:32] <JackFrost> I haven't noticed xfdesktop going
crazy on resources though.
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961 [05:54:03] <zerocool>
replaced-url
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963 [05:54:20] <zerocool> this shows stretch security as having a
fix
964 [05:54:26] <zerocool> for 4.9.65
965 [05:54:35] <zerocool> how do i verify that i have this?
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969 [05:55:38] <annadane> zerocool, uname -a
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971 [05:57:49] <zerocool_> annadane: i am an idiot :)
972 [05:57:59] <annadane> that's ok, i am too
973 [05:58:03] <zerocool_> i have been checking uname -r
974 [05:58:11] <zerocool_> thanks pal
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977 [05:58:35] <Edu4rdSHL> :P
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979 [05:58:44] <annadane> if in doubt just apt upgrade
980 [05:58:55] <Edu4rdSHL> And reboot :P
981 [05:58:56] <annadane> for kernels i don't remember if
it's upgrade or dist-upgrade but you should see it regardless
982 [05:58:58] <annadane> and reboot
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990 [06:03:18] <zerocool> okay i have another q
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992 [06:04:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1648
993 [06:05:41] <zerocool> with jessie + jessie-backports i am
running kernel 4.9
994 [06:06:16] <zerocool> can i add stretch updates to get the
patched kernel, to jessie?
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997 [06:07:18] <zerocool> i know that i should upgrade these to
stretch but im a puss about it because of the openssl change
998 [06:08:21] <Edu4rdSHL> zerocool, if you add the stretch
respos to sources.list and make a upgrade you know the results.
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1002 [06:09:08] <annadane> i'm not sure that's helpful
1003 [06:09:16] <annadane> anyway, i don't know the answer to
that question unfortunately
1004 [06:09:45] <annadane> it depends on whether the fix will be
ported to jessie-backports, first of all
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1011 [06:12:00] <temy> Is the Linux kernel patched against Sceptre
already at proposed-updates?
1012 [06:12:29] <Edu4rdSHL> The answer is: not.
1013 [06:12:43] <temy> Ok thanks
1014 [06:12:54] <annadane> sceptre no, meltdown yes
1015 [06:12:57] <awal1> not sure if mpv can be a good replacement
for vlc, right now
1016 [06:13:00] <Edu4rdSHL> Only a patch for meltdown.
1017 [06:13:06] <annadane> though i think it's called
specter, but i know what you mean
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1019 [06:14:18] <brimonk_> Does anyone know how to apply kernel
patches without rebooting their machine?
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1023 [06:14:47] <zerocool> brimonk_: shutdown and push the power
button
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1025 [06:14:56] <zerocool> to start it again
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1027 [06:15:27] <annadane> i was half-right, "spectre"
1028 [06:15:52] <annadane> brimonk, i don't believe it's
possible
1029 [06:16:26] <brimonk> I thought Red Hat had like, live patches
or something.
1030 [06:16:47] <annadane> i believe it does
1031 [06:18:50] <zerocool> "Not all issues may be covered
under live kernel patching, including hardware enablement."
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1033 [06:19:18] <zerocool> i doubt this is something that would be
eligable for a "live patch"
1034 [06:19:37] <annadane> brimonk, perhaps
replaced-url
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1036 [06:20:57] <annadane> as far as i can tell you do actually
need some kind of manual intervention, it's not a set it and
forget it thing
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1039 [06:21:42] <zerocool> it says that you can only apply one
patch at a time so it's kinda like just to get you to a point
where you can reboot
1040 [06:21:51] <annadane> load --all seems to do it
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1042 [06:21:55] <annadane> this is in the man page
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1044 [06:22:44] <annadane> well for sid anyway
1045 [06:22:53] <annadane> didn't check stable
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1052 [06:23:48] <annadane> ah, same version anyway
1053 [06:23:57] <annadane> ,v kpatch
1054 [06:23:59] <judd> Package: kpatch on amd64 -- buster:
0.3.2-3.1; sid: 0.3.2-3.1; stretch: 0.3.2-3.1
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1056 [06:24:48] <JackFrost> #872413
1057 [06:24:49] <judd> Bug
replaced-url
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1059 [06:24:53] <annadane> this was educational to me too, i
didn't actually know this existed and have promptly installed
it
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1061 [06:27:39] <annadane> this all being said, the safer option
is to reboot and especially with stable this should always work
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1063 [06:29:30] <Croepha> asking here because i'm not sure
where else to ask, but im using epoll and nonblocking IO... is there
a way that I can atomically read a given amount into a buffer? or
have epoll wait until a specific amount of data is ready for read?
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1066 [06:30:12] <Croepha> im trying to see if there is a way to
avoid having to track howmuch of the data is left to read, and just
offload that to the kernel
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1078 [06:35:38] <brimonk> annadane: kpatch is what I was looking
for. Thanks.
1079 [06:36:05] <annadane> brimonk, but see the bug report linked
above
1080 [06:36:15] <awal1> how can i check how x pkg and it's
deps+recommends uses in my system? any cli trick?
1081 [06:36:49] <awal1> how much space x pkg ...
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1085 [06:37:41] <somiaj> you want to know how much space
isntalling a package and all of it depends would do? just do a
simulate or --dry-run with apt-get to see what it would do, it
states install size during the process
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1087 [06:38:19] <awal1> already installed
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1089 [06:38:55] <awal1> well, I can just simulate removal, but I
tought there maybe a more inteligent way
1090 [06:39:39] <annadane> apt will always tell you how much space
it takes up/removes, as somiaj indicated
1091 [06:40:23] <awal1> I know that
1092 [06:40:30] <somiaj> awal1: a single package can be done with
apt show, it says package install size, but going through and
figuring out which auto install dependencies that can also be
removed requires resolving the whole remove and is bascailly a dry
run anyways.
1093 [06:41:06] <somiaj> now i don't know if some tool would
do all of this and not simulate the rest of the remove
1094 [06:41:15] <brimonk> I see...
1095 [06:41:42] <awal1> somija, ok, i'll check --dry-run
option closely, for start
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1097 [06:42:03] <annadane> and now i theorize that sid has begun
changing the behaviour of apt vs apt-get, looking through the man
page for this discussion...
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1099 [06:42:28] <somiaj> annadane: they have been different from
the start.
1100 [06:42:29] <annadane> sorry, off topic
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1102 [06:42:45] <somiaj> they use the same core libary for
resolving, but they preform different tasks.
1103 [06:42:46] <annadane> yeah i just tend not to use apt-get so
i don't keep up with it
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1105 [06:43:00] <annadane> i know, but there are specific
differences i was surprised about
1106 [06:43:04] <awal1> my idea was to get something similar to
what any file manager does for a dir recursively but for pkg x and
its deps and recommends, somiaj
1107 [06:43:06] <somiaj> unless you are using scripts, there is
little reason to use apt-get (unless an upgrade specifcally suggests
it)
1108 [06:43:33] <somiaj> awal1: do you want all depends all the
way down the tree, this takes a bit to resolve, and not all of those
would be removed if the package was removed.
1109 [06:43:50] <somiaj> awal1: but you could write a script to
get this from apt-rdepends and getting the install size of the
packages listed.
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1115 [06:46:41] <awal1> somiaj, I think I give up, my goal was
since he beginning wrong; simulating removals (remove/purge) is
enough.thanks, nayway
1116 [06:46:51] <awal1> since the ^
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1129 [06:52:59] <jeddi> I'm trying to take a desktop from
stretch to buster - I'm hitting some dependency issues that
aren't coming up on google, around libkaccounts1 -- it's a
KDE / sddm workstation, but nothing particularly fancy - I've
got sources.list down to just local AU mirror for debian (contrib,
main, non-free). No held packages. Any hints?
replaced-url
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1132 [06:55:58] <somiaj> pick a better size so things are easier
to read, the wrapping on that paste is terrib.e
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1134 [06:56:41] <somiaj> anyawys, first you most likely want to
dist-upgrade not upgrade, and second you have some how removed a
meta package that pulled most your system in, and apt isn't
going to upgrade auto install packages that nothing depends on.
1135 [06:58:10] <jeddi> yeah, sorry somiaj - just noticed that.
1136 [06:58:19] <jeddi> yeah - the 'dist-upgrade' down
the bottom of that paste shows actual error.
1137 [06:58:35] <jeddi> i've removed that package, and run
dist-upgrade again - it doesn't break now, but does want to
remove a bunch of stuff i'm fond of ;)
1138 [06:59:05] <somiaj> jeddi: so go reinstall the metapackage or
a few of the top level packages in that list and make them manual
install
1139 [06:59:08] *** Quits: sultral (~sebastien@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
1140 [06:59:12] <somiaj> you can also use apt-mark to change
things to manual install status
1141 [06:59:14] <annadane> also, look into aptitude
1142 [06:59:20] <annadane> which is nice for dependency resolution
stuff
1143 [06:59:21] <jeddi>
replaced-url
1144 [06:59:25] <awal1> jeddi, use paste.debian.net and give here
the plain format mode link
1145 [07:00:11] <annadane> though how wise it is to install
aptitude with a system in limbo i'm not sure
1146 [07:00:19] <jeddi> usually i'd be happy to take a note
of packages it wants to remove, do the dist-upgrade, then manually
get those packages back in later ... but it's a remote box, and
that makes me extra wary.
1147 [07:00:33] <jeddi> system's currently stable - in both
senses of the word :)
1148 [07:01:01] <jeddi> somiaj: you mean reinstall before the
dist-upgrade, or do the dist-upgrade and then re-install components
from that removed list?
1149 [07:01:08] <annadane> right, 769 not upgraded indicates the
sources list is buster but nothing changed yet
1150 [07:01:17] <jeddi> i mean, as best i can - i'm sure some
of those items are not needed in current (buster) revs of KDE etc.
1151 [07:01:58] <jeddi> annadane: i keep meaning to try aptitude
again - i've just been using apt-get / dpkg cli since the mid
90's - it's hard to move on.
1152 [07:02:16] <annadane> so if you want you can change back to
stretch, install aptitude and put it back to buster, but of course
this is entirely up to you and in any case it looks like solutions
are being offered anyway
1153 [07:02:18] <jeddi> dist-upgrade from stable -> testing has
always been pretty painless for me in the past.
1154 [07:02:27] <annadane> right
1155 [07:02:30] <somiaj> it is up to you, you can remove then
reinstall packages or try to fix what you ahve with some manual
flags.
1156 [07:02:48] <somiaj> it can esaily depend on timing, there is
some timing/package combinations that make the upgrade hard
1157 [07:02:51] <annadane> if you haven't changed anything to
buster yet going through aptitude may well be an intelligent idea
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1159 [07:03:15] <jeddi> okay ... i'll go down that path.
nothing on that list of removed packages looks like it'll
affect my remote access - just wired ethernet + ssh - and i've
got hands and feet at the far end if needed.
1160 [07:03:30] <annadane> though apt also has relatively good
information on its own, i suppose
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1163 [07:06:26] <jeddi> aptitude's first recommendation is a
solution that removes 490 packages. crikey!
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1166 [07:07:12] <annadane> half the battle is not using -y,
congratulations
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1168 [07:07:42] <zerocool> im too lazy to type -y
1169 [07:07:44] <jeddi> annadane: :) -u -d first time, -u second
time, every time :)
1170 [07:07:51] <zerocool> y alone is one less char than -y
1171 [07:07:59] <zerocool> so i wait for prompt
1172 [07:08:00] <annadane> the basic idea behind aptitude is that
you can more easily cross reference; you don't *have to* accept
aptitude's default recommendations
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1175 [07:08:22] <jeddi> for most of the cattle i'll use
saltstack ... but this is a pet.
1176 [07:08:36] <annadane> without knowing your issue i know you
mentioned KDE which can be thorny as far as transitions are
concerned
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1178 [07:08:59] <annadane> so in very general terms (this
isn't helpful) you can try upgrading piecemeal
1179 [07:09:19] <jeddi> annadane: agreed. (kde prickiliness)
1180 [07:10:02] <annadane> do that and then just stop when you hit
packages that want to remove others or which don't have a clear
upgrade path; narrow it down and then toward the end see what
you're left with
1181 [07:10:18] <annadane> which, yeah, sucks with 400+ packages
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1183 [07:10:42] <jeddi> nvidia and kdebaseapps are two of the key
packages that it definitely wants to lose in each scenario ...
nvidia's always a challenge, though i was more optimistic about
buster (most of my boxen are sid).
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1185 [07:11:04] <annadane> not sure if you've tried this yet
but "apt upgrade" will safely upgrade what can be upgraded
1186 [07:11:12] <annadane> don't need to dist-upgrade all at
once
1187 [07:11:18] <jeddi> okay - i'll stick with earlier
suggestion - suck it up with apt-get dist-upgrade, note the 50 or so
pcakages there, and wrangle them back into place after the upgrade.
1188 [07:12:08] <jeddi> annadane: done the apt-get upgrade
already, just prior to changing sources.list from stretch ->
buster. i've had mixed success doing upgrade (rather than
dist-upgrade) after changing sources.list in the past.
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1190 [07:12:46] <annadane> quite possibly
1191 [07:13:03] <annadane> sometimes packages can still be held
back because of others even though they would install/upgrade fine
on their own
1192 [07:13:09] <annadane> hence the piecemeal approach
1193 [07:13:27] <annadane> but if you're fine with removing
stuff and adding it back later i suppose you also can do that, i
haven't paid super close attention to your specific problem
1194 [07:14:11] <annadane> 'apt install foo' when foo is
already installed to upgrade it and its dependencies, by the way, if
you're interested in the tedious process of slow migrating over
to buster
1195 [07:14:13] <jeddi> annadane: all good .. i'm doing the
dist-upgrade, then piecemeal as needed. kde / qt changes over past
couple of years means some of these packages may not be needed on
buster anyway.
1196 [07:14:40] <jeddi> and i'm painfully familiar with the
'try installing each package from the held list, manually'
approach to resolving dependency issues. :)
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1198 [07:15:36] <annadane> right, the problem with that is that
then those packages get marked as manually installed which means
apt/aptitude/dpkg will not remove it even if there's a
replacement version, so you can go around apt-marking things as auto
which in itself is very hard to keep track of with that many
packages
1199 [07:15:49] <annadane> it works for me because i pay minute
attention to my own system
1200 [07:16:29] <somiaj> might want to be careful what you mean
about apt not removing them if there is a replacement version.
Packages should still upgrade and replacements are done with
transitional packages, which is independent of manual install flag.
1201 [07:16:29] <jeddi> yup - i try to avoid holding / pinning as
much as possible. makes for much pain for future-jedd.
1202 [07:16:43] <annadane> that's correct, i should have been
more specific
1203 [07:17:18] <annadane> beyond the initial install nothing gets
marked as manual unless you specifically install it as such
1204 [07:17:49] <annadane> (but if you've had the system for
5+ years it's still hard to keep track of, for example)
1205 [07:18:12] <annadane> anyway sorry for rambling :P
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1230 [07:44:04] <kingsley> Which is best? dpkg, apt-get, aptitude,
apt or something else?
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1259 [08:21:17] <n4dir> !best
1260 [08:21:17] <dpkg> Best for what? Please define what you mean
by "best". Gloria Gaynor! Tina Turner! Aretha Franklin!
Men without Hats! Women without Hats! Men at Work! Women at Play!
Anyone for Tennis!
1261 [08:21:57] <n4dir> you probably don't want to use dpkg,
and, as far it's me, which of aptitude, apt-get or apt (which i
don't even know yet) doesn't matter.
1262 [08:22:17] <n4dir> kingsley: ^^
1263 [08:22:19] *** Joins: simpledat (~user@replaced-ip )
1264 [08:22:39] <simpledat> The following packages have been kept
back:
1265 [08:22:40] <simpledat> linux-headers-amd64 linux-image-amd64
1266 [08:22:41] <simpledat> The following packages have been kept
back:
1267 [08:23:01] <annadane> simpledat, if this is the start of a
very long paste use paste.debian.net
1268 [08:23:08] <annadane> also
1269 [08:23:09] <annadane> !bat
1270 [08:23:09] <dpkg> In order to troubleshoot your problem with
apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information:
1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the
command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1
pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem,
and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use
replaced-url
1271 [08:23:34] <annadane> you probably need to apt dist-upgrade
if that's the only issue you have
1272 [08:23:49] <annadane> (which would answer my earlier
question...)
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1275 [08:28:16] <simpledat> annandane: Do you run debian stretch?
Did you also have to run apt dist-upgrade?
1276 [08:28:37] <simpledat> dist-upgrade? why would you do that
with stretch?
1277 [08:28:53] <annadane> i run debian unstable, but i think that
kernel upgrades can only be done via apt dist-upgrade and not apt
upgrade
1278 [08:29:48] <annadane> otherwise, what happens if you actually
try "apt install linux-headers-amd64 linux-image-amd64"
1279 [08:30:33] <annadane> i should have asked what command you
tried first, as you didn't give much context to start with
1280 [08:31:01] <simpledat> apt-get update && apt-get
upgrade
1281 [08:31:09] <annadane> simpledat, also, to highlight my name
you can use tab completion
1282 [08:31:17] <annadane> right, so try dist-upgrade
1283 [08:31:29] <annadane> ah, apt-get
1284 [08:31:50] <annadane> it's the same with apt-get too
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1286 [08:33:05] <simpledat> annandane: It will install this
packages with apt-get install linux-headers-amd64 linux-image-amd64
1287 [08:33:41] <annadane> simpledat, ann<tab>
1288 [08:33:58] <simpledat> annandane: What do you mean?
1289 [08:34:32] <annadane> you're misspelling my name, so i
don't get notified when you type it; if your irc client
supports it then you can type the first few letters, press the tab
key, and it will autocomplete
1290 [08:35:27] <annadane> anyway, it doesn't really matter
1291 [08:35:43] <annadane> so it will install those 2 packages,
does it say anything else?
1292 [08:36:22] <annadane> it's a good idea to post your
detailed output to paste.debian.net so we have a better idea
1293 [08:36:30] <simpledat> Why does it allow me to install this
packages with install and not upgrade?
1294 [08:36:52] <annadane> simpledat, because i believe for
installing the kernel it needs to be apt dist-upgrade, not just apt
upgrade
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1296 [08:37:17] <simpledat> Can anyone confirm this?
1297 [08:37:55] <simpledat> Someone told me this
1298 [08:37:57] <simpledat> it usualy keeps back updates if the
new version depends on
1299 [08:37:57] <simpledat> something that is broken and or if the
new version has
1300 [08:37:57] <simpledat> changed dependencies that would
require installing previously
1301 [08:37:58] <simpledat> not installed packages
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1304 [08:38:07] <simpledat> sorry
1305 [08:38:20] <simpledat> it usualy keeps back updates if the
new version depends onsomething that is broken and or if the new
version haschanged dependencies that would require installing
previouslynot installed packages
1306 [08:39:05] <annadane> do you get something like "0
upgraded, 2 newly installed, 0 to remove, 0 not upgraded"?
1307 [08:39:28] <annadane> and is this an upgrade from jessie to
stretch, by the way?
1308 [08:39:34] <simpledat> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to
remove and 2 not upgraded.
1309 [08:39:45] <simpledat> No its a fresh install of stretch
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1311 [08:40:04] <annadane> what happens if you apt dist-upgrade
1312 [08:40:39] <annadane> it ought to then say 2 newly installed
1313 [08:40:40] <simpledat> I want someone to confirm this for me
first. So I dont brake anything
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1315 [08:42:18] <annadane> if it says 0 upgraded 2 newly installed
0 to remove and 0 not upgraded you won't break anything,
you'll just have a newer kernel
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1349 [09:15:06] * magic_cookie waiting for kernel patches
1350 [09:15:20] * magic_cookie sips some tea
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1366 [09:27:34] <streaky> we're all in that holding pattern..
i'm patching esxi boxes to fill the time.
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1382 [09:35:43] <BCMM> on that topic: how come sid is marked as
fixed here
replaced-url
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1386 [09:38:31] <Dagger> BCMM: # [2018-01-05] Accepted 4.14.12-1
in unstable (medium) (Salvatore Bonaccorso) <-- the update
exists. I guess it just hasn't been built for all architectures
yet, or hasn't migrated yet or something
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1388 [09:39:37] <Dagger> not sure how unstable works, I'm
kinda on the other end of the spectrum -- wondering where the
backport update is for jessie
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1390 [09:40:02] <soul-d> morning anyone ever have it happrn that
windows suddenly is main bootloader again ?
1391 [09:40:31] <soul-d> i now have to press f8 and choose the
corect hardisk as of yesterday :( and no clue why
1392 [09:41:15] <Dagger> I can understand 3.16 not having a fix
yet, or even at all, but 4.9 is just a recompile away and given the
urgency it'd be nice to get it >.>
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1400 [09:51:46] <pingfloyd> soul-d: did you run windows
"startup repair" or something?
1401 [09:53:56] <soul-d> no but i remmber when searching for how
to get menuabar back i opened something that did do boot manager but
i only open a settings window it should not have actualy done
anything
1402 [09:54:11] <soul-d> but well it is windows
1403 [09:54:35] <soul-d> it's probably somethign simple as it
changed bootdisk order
1404 [09:54:45] <soul-d> ill check later in bios
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1409 [09:56:56] <soul-d> it's just damn scary to reboot and
skip grub all of the sudden
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1419 [10:04:51] <pingfloyd> soul-d: were you chainloading grub
from the windows bootloader or something?
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1424 [10:06:07] <soul-d> no i alwasy follow windows first linux
second rule
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1428 [10:06:45] <pingfloyd> that's only because windows
doesn't give any option where to install its stage 1
1429 [10:07:11] <pingfloyd> even if you do windows second, you can
still get it back. You just have to reinstall grub again in that
case.
1430 [10:07:14] <soul-d> i was chaining the windows loader from
grub though
1431 [10:07:26] <soul-d> like normal
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1433 [10:07:28] <pingfloyd> soul-d: probably your best bet is to
boot a live usb and reinstall grub to mbr
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1435 [10:07:51] <pingfloyd> ^ this should work since you're
chainloading windows
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1437 [10:08:10] <pingfloyd> sounds like windows bootloader put
it's stage 1 over grubs in the mbr somehow
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1439 [10:08:30] <soul-d> no its stilll there i just have to f8 and
choose debian grub
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1441 [10:08:47] <pingfloyd> yeah
1442 [10:08:47] *** Quits: hammer065 (~hammer065@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1443 [10:08:53] <pingfloyd> because you're now chainloading
grub
1444 [10:09:00] <pingfloyd> because windows overwrote the mbr
1445 [10:09:15] <soul-d> it just changed the order no thats the
motherboards future it has nothing to do with windows
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1451 [10:09:54] <pingfloyd> why are you changing boot order?
1452 [10:09:55] <soul-d> its also not an mbr but the new version
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1457 [10:11:47] <soul-d> ah well ill fix it soon just gave me a
good jumpscare :)
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1460 [10:12:41] <pingfloyd> nothing to be afraid of as long as you
have alternate means to bring up another system to fix it (e.g.,
live usb of grml for instance).
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1538 [11:11:03] <Blessed> hey i configure my ip address with ip
addr add 192.168.0.105/24 dev enp0s3
1539 [11:11:13] <Blessed> restart network but it doesnt work
1540 [11:11:24] <Blessed> i use static ip
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1543 [11:11:59] <Blessed> do I need to add gateway?
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1545 [11:12:07] <dutchfish> Blessed, are you sure enp0s3 shouldnt
be enp0s4? (default)
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1547 [11:12:30] <Blessed> dutchfish: im sure its enp0s3
1548 [11:12:35] <dutchfish> err enp4s0
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1550 [11:14:00] <dutchfish> or enp3s0 if your hw is different
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1555 [11:18:41] <dutchfish> Blessed, in any case `sudo dmesg |
grep enp` would reveal that.
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1559 [11:19:51] <dutchfish> and `ip lnk show` for status
1560 [11:19:56] <dutchfish> link*
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1565 [11:22:42] <Blessed> dutchfish i needed to add gateway: ip
route add default via 192.168.0.1
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1567 [11:23:02] <jsoft> Anyone here familiar with openbsd? If so,
how do I get debian to mail me daily diffs, stats, etc, like openbsd
does ?
1568 [11:23:14] <dutchfish> Blessed, if that all matches, take a
look at routing `ip route` and if a default gateway is assigned
correctly.
1569 [11:23:26] <dutchfish> Blessed, hah, you did beat me with
that, yes.
1570 [11:24:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1651
1571 [11:24:17] <Blessed> dutchfish ok thanks ;)
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1574 [11:24:25] <dutchfish> Blessed, np, yw.
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1648 [12:22:58] <diamvw> Hello, is there any beginner tutorial for
packages and configurations for desktop xfce? I would like to make
my debian as close as possible to xubuntu.
1649 [12:24:41] *** Joins: Doxin (~Doxin@replaced-ip )
1650 [12:25:30] *** Joins: rizzo (~RizzoTheR@replaced-ip )
1651 [12:27:04] <RoyK> Doxin:
replaced-url
1652 [12:27:18] *** Joins: Korigan (~Korigan@replaced-ip )
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1655 [12:31:21] <Doxin> RoyK: huh?
1656 [12:31:27] *** Joins: Tex (~Texou@replaced-ip )
1657 [12:31:51] <diamvw> Doxin: I was maybe the receiver.
1658 [12:31:55] <Doxin> ah
1659 [12:31:57] <RoyK> Doxin: sorry, diamvw yeah ;)
1660 [12:32:00] <Doxin> np
1661 [12:32:37] *** Joins: conta (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip )
1662 [12:32:45] <Doxin> I've got a clean install of debian
testing, and a gtx1080 video card. How do I make openGL work?
I've tried the nvidia-driver package, but it just keeps using
nouveau, unless I force it to use the nvidia driver at which point
xorg just complains about not finding any devices. At that point I
couldn't even get nouveau to work again so here I am on a clean
install
1663 [12:32:49] <Doxin> anyone got any solid suggestions?
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1667 [12:33:55] <diamvw> Doxin: how do you set driver for your
kernel module?
1668 [12:34:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1657
1669 [12:34:12] <Doxin> diamvw: sorry, whatnow?
1670 [12:34:18] *** paladox_ is now known as paladox
1671 [12:35:10] <diamvw> Doxin: How do you force openGL to use
nvidia driver?
1672 [12:35:13] <nkuttler> Doxin: you probably have to blacklist
the nouveau driver if you want to use the nvidia one
1673 [12:35:27] <nkuttler> Doxin: lsmod | grep nouveau
1674 [12:35:29] <Doxin> nkuttler: there's a blacklist
included in the nvidia-driver package
1675 [12:35:34] <Doxin> nkuttler: doesn't help
1676 [12:35:47] <Doxin> nkuttler: and again, when I forcefully
make it use the nvidia driver it doesn't work anyways
1677 [12:35:49] <nkuttler> Doxin: lsmod | grep ^nv
1678 [12:36:02] *** Quits: amcorrei1 (~amcorreia@replaced-ip ) (Quit: WeeChat 1.7.1)
1679 [12:36:08] <Doxin> nkuttler: no output
1680 [12:36:18] *** Joins: eMaks (~eMaks@replaced-ip )
1681 [12:36:26] <Doxin> diamvw: some kernel boot argument, I
forget which exactly. something something modeset=0
1682 [12:36:30] <nkuttler> Doxin: then you don't have the
nvidia driver loaded
1683 [12:36:36] <Doxin> nkuttler: I currently don't.
1684 [12:36:40] <Doxin> nkuttler: like I said, clean install.
1685 [12:36:53] <nkuttler> so what's your question
1686 [12:37:18] <Doxin> nkuttler: how do I make it work, given
that installing nvidia-driver doesn't work, blacklisting
doesn't work, and forcing the driver just hoses everything.
1687 [12:37:31] <nkuttler> make what work?
1688 [12:37:39] <Doxin> opengl
1689 [12:37:45] <Doxin> anything that uses opengl
1690 [12:37:50] <nkuttler> !tell Doxin about nvidia dkms
1691 [12:37:54] <diamvw> Doxin: i hope that you aren't using
any shim or anything else to sign boot module. Is that true?
1692 [12:38:16] <Doxin> nkuttler: I have done this.
1693 [12:38:25] <Doxin> nkuttler: it results in xorg complaining
about not finding any devices.
1694 [12:38:28] <nkuttler> Doxin: and? modprobe nvidia?
1695 [12:38:59] <Doxin> what good will that do? the xorg log tells
me the nvidia driver is loaded, but can't find any devices.
1696 [12:39:01] *** Parts: inspectorcluseau (~Inspector@replaced-ip ) ("Ex-Chat")
1697 [12:39:06] <nkuttler> ...
1698 [12:39:14] <Doxin> not currently
1699 [12:39:19] <Doxin> since again to get everything unhosed
1700 [12:39:20] <nkuttler> Doxin: xorg driver != kernel module
1701 [12:39:25] <Doxin> oh
1702 [12:39:46] <Doxin> nkuttler: so the instructions here
replaced-url
1703 [12:40:09] <nkuttler> Doxin: why would they be?
1704 [12:40:25] <Doxin> because they, as I've told you
before, do not result in a working video driver.
1705 [12:40:31] <nkuttler> Doxin: did you reboot?
1706 [12:40:34] *** Joins: kzimmermann (~username@replaced-ip )
1707 [12:40:39] <Doxin> nkuttler: yes.
1708 [12:40:47] *** Quits: OS-31823 (~root@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1709 [12:40:48] <Doxin> nkuttler: at which point it resumes to use
the nouveau driver
1710 [12:41:02] <nkuttler> Doxin: do the nvidia dkms things, and
paste.debian.net the output
1711 [12:41:03] *** Joins: OS-31823 (~root@replaced-ip )
1712 [12:41:20] <Doxin> nkuttler: presumably I need nvidia-driver
installed before I do that?
1713 [12:41:47] <nkuttler> Doxin: just copy and paste the bot
command
1714 [12:41:51] <Doxin> okay
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1717 [12:44:49] <diamvw> What about stable? Maybe is
'testing' specific?
1718 [12:45:07] <nkuttler> oh.. testing...
1719 [12:46:25] *** Parts: aphotica_ (~aphotica@replaced-ip ) ("Leaving")
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1721 [12:47:24] <Doxin> nkuttler: alright so I've run those
commands, it has installed a bunch of stuff. the last step is to
reboot, that all okay with you? (There's not really relevant
output to paste aside from apt installing a bunch of stuff)
1722 [12:47:30] *** Quits: Profound (Profound@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1723 [12:49:11] <nkuttler> Doxin: find /lib/modules/`uname -r`
-name *nvidia*ko
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1725 [12:49:19] *** Joins: baloona (~baloona@replaced-ip )
1726 [12:49:44] <Doxin> nkuttler: no output
1727 [12:51:27] <nkuttler> Doxin: find /lib/modules/ -name
nvidia*ko
1728 [12:51:42] <Doxin> no output
1729 [12:51:54] <diamvw> Doxin: maybe lsmod | grep ^nv
1730 [12:52:12] <Doxin> do mind I havent installed nvidia-driver
at this point
1731 [12:52:21] <Doxin> diamvw: no output
1732 [12:52:46] *** Quits: paracusia (~ast@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
1733 [12:52:50] <nkuttler> Doxin: you never built the kernel
moduels. anyway, you should ask on #debian-next on oftc
1734 [12:52:59] *** Joins: amonn_ (~amon@replaced-ip )
1735 [12:53:09] <Doxin> nkuttler: sorry, "oftc"?
1736 [12:53:14] <nkuttler> !oftc
1737 [12:53:14] <dpkg> OFTC is the Open and Free Technology
Community, a support/collaboration service. They have an IRC
network: irc.oftc.net. You may be connected to OFTC's network.
replaced-url
1738 [12:53:17] *** Quits: amonn (~amon@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1739 [12:53:22] <Doxin> ah
1740 [12:53:31] <nkuttler> Doxin: it's the official support
channel for testing
1741 [12:53:41] <Doxin> I shall be heading over there then
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remember that this is the internet)
1744 [12:54:25] <Doxin> nkuttler: thanks for the help so far
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1755 [12:59:15] <ewew> Hi. Is there a way to force running only
binaries with highier optimatization -O2 ?
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1761 [13:02:38] <jim> ewew, what would happen if someone tried to
run a binary with lower optimization?
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1763 [13:03:19] <ewew> will not be runed.
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1767 [13:04:08] <ewew> offcourse the ones put in the places where
normal users have write permission.
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1772 [13:05:59] <Doxin> nkuttler: reinstall of the nvidia dkms
package and a reboot seems to have fixed it
1773 [13:06:11] <jim> ok... generally speaking, optimization is
implemented using different ways of generating asm code... one way I
can think of for guaranteeing that, is to compile all binaries that
way... then there would not exist a binary with a lower optimization
1774 [13:06:24] <dutchfish> ewew, renicing user processes beyond
-20 is stupid, because it then competes with kernel worker threads.
If you need more you could change afinity to a specific core for
that user proces.
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1776 [13:07:09] <Doxin> and indeed glxgears now works!
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1778 [13:07:40] <dutchfish> ewew, furthermore renice doesn not
garantue better performance. Bare that in mind.
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1781 [13:09:04] <dutchfish> ewew, the easier way, use more cores
and do nothing ;)
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1785 [13:10:40] <dutchfish> ewew, messing with niceness, most of
the time ends up in an unstable system once it gets under load.
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1797 [13:16:50] <ewew> im trying to break spectre.
1798 [13:17:22] <dutchfish> ewew, you wont succeed, at least not
that way.
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1801 [13:18:18] <dutchfish> ewew, but you might consider affinity
for some very specific scenarios.
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1803 [13:19:23] <dutchfish> ewew, you have to plan that very
carefully.
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1805 [13:20:55] <ewew> i tried the spectre with -O2 and it did not
extract the string.
1806 [13:20:56] <dutchfish> ewew, the overall gain will be minimal
at best.
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1809 [13:21:35] <ewew> ok. i just wanted to know if this could
help a bit.
1810 [13:21:38] <dutchfish> ewew, my mistake i thought you were
performance checking the latest patches against it.
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1812 [13:23:59] <ewew> the worst thing is that this flaw is
unpredictable. for example the CACHE_HIT_THRESHOLD.
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1815 [13:24:32] <jsoft> What kind of weirdo am I if I want to do
work in my free time?
1816 [13:24:33] <dutchfish> ewew, in any case, this is quiet a bit
offtopic in here.
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1818 [13:26:05] <ewew> ok.
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1832 [13:34:42] <diamvw1> Is there any good tutorial for debian
desktop? I compare it with ubuntu and a lot of packages are missing
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1834 [13:36:32] <babilen> Such as?
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1836 [13:37:01] <babilen> And no, there isn't really a
tutorial for something as broad as "debian desktop"
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1838 [13:38:02] <diamvw1> I was talking about xfce. Fonts, some
indicators for new messages and email on notfications.
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1840 [13:39:25] <babilen> Sounds as if the stock configuration is
more customised on Ubuntu
1841 [13:39:43] <diamvw1> Also there isn't any update
notification (pt-update-icon package)
1842 [13:40:38] <diamvw1> babilen: exactly. I thought that it will
be some clicks or conf files but it is way more complicated
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1845 [13:40:55] <babilen> Are you thinking of pk-update-icon ?
1846 [13:41:08] <diamvw1> babilen: my bad. yes
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1848 [13:41:26] <babilen> That package is in stretch
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1851 [13:43:23] <diamvw1> babilen: Yes but it one of the many that
are missing. There are many others which give functionality (avahi i
think) and are not installed. That's why i asked if anyone has
a link
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1854 [13:46:26] <diamvw1> maybe a for with all the packages from
xubuntu will solve partially this. apport also is not included in
debian. It will be helpful for bug reports
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1869 [13:54:13] <peterpacz1> Hello. On the debian installer, I
would like to use the "Guided - use entire disk and set up
encrypted LVM" option without zeroing the disk with random
data.
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1871 [13:54:24] <babilen> diamvw1: Debian doesn't really use
apport
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1873 [13:54:33] <babilen> (take a look at "reportbug")
1874 [13:55:00] <babilen> peterpacz1: You can just cancel that
while its running if you don't want to complete it
1875 [13:55:03] <peterpacz1> I choose that option when I tried to
install debian, and I patiently waited for it to zero the disk.
Unfortunately, when the progress bar got to 90%, my laptop shut down
because it ran out of power. It took 2 hours for the installer to
get to that point. Disappointed, I tried again, with the cable
plugged in. However, once again - I unplugged the c
1876 [13:55:03] <peterpacz1> able at some point, and when the
progress bar got to 70%, my laptop shut down.
1877 [13:55:05] <peterpacz1> Oh, okay.
1878 [13:55:08] <peterpacz1> Thank you! <3
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1880 [13:55:52] <babilen> (and just leave the cable in this time)
1881 [13:55:53] <babilen> :)
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1893 [14:01:09] <diamvw1> babilen: you can find reference on it
from some packages in debian. I apt-file search apport
1894 [14:01:21] <diamvw1> babilen: maybe ubuntu contributors
1895 [14:01:22] <diamvw1> ?
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1923 [14:13:37] <MikeDebian> I've just installed Stretch on
my new laptop (Dell Precision 5520). first time using debian 9.
70-persistent-net.rules file was not generated and as such network
card names are a mess at the moment. Has something changed on debian
9 on this regards?
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1930 [14:14:44] <dvs> MikeDebian, yes, the device names for
network cards have changed.
1931 [14:15:03] <RoyK>
replaced-url
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1933 [14:15:31] <RoyK> you *can* use the old ones, but better get
used to the new ones - they're here to stay
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1943 [14:18:12] <MikeDebian> the issue is that the name is like
the mac address (without being it really).
1944 [14:18:45] <MikeDebian> For instance, enxa44cc896...
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1988 [14:40:17] <dutchfish> MikeDebian, as far as i know, all
adapter instances get enumerated during the boot process, once that
is complete (depending on your network configuration) get renamed.
This is also in your dmesg log.
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1992 [14:41:52] <dutchfish> MikeDebian, check
/etc/network/interfaces and how to set it up. See the Debian wiki if
you want static addressing.
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the most interesting network tech in the world...)
1995 [14:42:27] *** Quits: dacav (~dacav@replaced-ip ) (Quit: bye :))
1996 [14:43:25] <MikeDebian> dutchfish, /etc/network/interfaces is
not being used. gnome is managing it
1997 [14:44:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1668
1998 [14:44:18] <dutchfish> MikeDebian, that explaines the
'funny' names. So, you have to configure networkmanager.
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2003 [14:47:14] <Megaf> How can I see the last time a system was
bootted up?
2004 [14:47:22] <qman__> uptime
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2007 [14:47:44] <Megaf> I didnt ask about uptime
2008 [14:47:53] <bencc> I want to install a package from a newer
debian release that has the same deps as the stable release
2009 [14:48:01] <qman__> yes, you did - the last time the system
was booted up, is now minus the uptime
2010 [14:48:07] <bencc> do I need only "apt-get install
-t" or do I also need apt pinning?
2011 [14:48:23] <dutchfish> Megaf, `last -n 25`
2012 [14:48:56] <Megaf> qman__: I didnt ask how to I check for how
long the system had been running
2013 [14:49:03] <Megaf> I asked last time it was started
2014 [14:49:09] <Megaf> prior the current time*
2015 [14:49:12] <qman__> they're the same thing
2016 [14:49:21] <qman__> just formatted differently
2017 [14:50:12] <Megaf> dutchfish: will try that when the system
finsihes booting
2018 [14:50:30] <Megaf> this is an old laptop that had been turned
of for several years
2019 [14:50:38] <Megaf> I wanted to see when I last used it
2020 [14:51:10] <dutchfish> Megaf, it holds logs about former
reboots as well, the -n number need sometimes to be higher depending
on how many logins happened.
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2023 [14:52:32] <dutchfish> Megaf, and yes, the lgins are in there
as well.
2024 [14:52:38] <dutchfish> logins*
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2028 [14:54:55] <Megaf> this will tkae a while to fully start up,
it's a Pentium II....
2029 [14:55:00] <Megaf> Out for lunch, cya
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2036 [14:57:22] <Megaf> dutchfish: last doesnt show year
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2043 [14:58:32] <dutchfish> Megaf, that long agao? next best thing
is /var/log/syslog.1.gz
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2047 [14:59:18] <dutchfish> Megaf, depending on how long you had
it up now.
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2050 [14:59:49] <Megaf> dutchfish: at least 3 years
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2053 [15:00:11] <qman__> mgdelacroix: add -F
2054 [15:00:15] <qman__> Megaf: add -F
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2056 [15:00:24] <Megaf> Debian Squeeze was current back then
2057 [15:00:25] <Megaf> :P
2058 [15:00:27] <dutchfish> Megaf, 3 years up without login???
2059 [15:00:34] <Megaf> this lappy has Debian 6.0
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2062 [15:00:45] <Megaf> dutchfish: yep, it was in a drawer in my
room
2063 [15:01:13] <Megaf> ouf or lunch
2064 [15:01:20] <dutchfish> Megaf, anyway, delve into /var/log
then
2065 [15:01:29] <qman__> last -25 -F
2066 [15:01:48] <dutchfish> last -n 25 -F*
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2071 [15:02:30] <dutchfish> (depending on which Debian)
2072 [15:02:33] *** Quits: telcoguy (~telcoguy@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2073 [15:02:44] <qman__> they mean the same thing
2074 [15:02:48] <dutchfish> yes
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2077 [15:04:06] <Devastator> I have a really old laptop running
Debian lenny and I need to setup a serial console for ttyS0, what
are my options?
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2079 [15:04:52] <dutchfish> Devastator, you need to access a devic
eover serial? if so, screen is your easiest ticket.
2080 [15:05:15] <dutchfish> Devastator, screen /dev/ttyS0
(example)
2081 [15:05:29] *** Joins: s7r (~s7r@replaced-ip )
2082 [15:05:49] <Devastator> dutchfish yeah, it seems lenny
didn't come with screen out of the box..
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2088 [15:06:41] <dutchfish> Devastator, you oculd get it manually
out of archives/debian.
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2090 [15:07:09] *** Joins: kiltzman (~k1ltzman@replaced-ip )
2091 [15:07:10] <qman__> you can also update your sources to point
to the archives, which will allow you to install anything from there
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2093 [15:07:20] <qman__> or upgrade
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2099 [15:07:56] <Devastator> assuming I can make internet work on
this thing heheh
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2103 [15:08:29] <abrotman> Devastator: TLDP has docs about serial
consoles
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2111 [15:09:56] <abrotman> as does kernel.org
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2117 [15:10:54] <dutchfish> Devastator,
replaced-url
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2119 [15:11:04] <iodev> ok, how do I install deluge in testing
2120 [15:11:10] <iodev> why why, was it removed?
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2125 [15:12:50] <Devastator> qman__, abrotman thank you
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2129 [15:13:01] <dutchfish> iodev, because it introduced a
regression ask #debian-next (OFTC) also see:
replaced-url
2130 [15:13:11] <Devastator> dutchfish thank you, can I setup this
through sources.list somehow?
2131 [15:13:16] *** Joins: Orbitrix (~Huevos@replaced-ip )
2132 [15:13:18] <Devastator> it seems internet is working
2133 [15:13:40] <dutchfish> Devastator, ah ok
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2138 [15:14:20] <iodev> dutchfish: what is a regression?!
2139 [15:14:52] *** Joins: kiltzman (~k1ltzman@replaced-ip )
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2141 [15:14:58] <dutchfish> iodev, a bug, it stopped working, it
messed up the system.
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2143 [15:15:10] <iodev> dutchfish: explain in more detail
2144 [15:15:13] <iodev> library conflict?
2145 [15:15:27] <dutchfish> iodev, read the buglist on the link i
gave you.
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2150 [15:17:13] <iodev>
replaced-url
2151 [15:17:14] <judd> Bug
replaced-url
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2154 [15:17:20] <iodev> dutchfish: yes, now it makes sense
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2156 [15:18:30] *** Joins: alchemistswl (~alchemist@replaced-ip )
2157 [15:18:33] <qman__> Devastator: yep,
replaced-url
2158 [15:18:55] <dutchfish> Devastator,
replaced-url
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2161 [15:20:43] *** Joins: telcoguy (~telcoguy@replaced-ip )
2162 [15:20:56] <dutchfish> Devastator, something like `deb
replaced-url
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2165 [15:22:24] <Devastator> qman__, dutchfish success!
2166 [15:22:52] *** Quits: rephlexie (~rephlexie@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2167 [15:22:58] <dutchfish> qman__, and thank you too. Take it
form here, i need to run.
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2177 [15:26:18] <tmm88> hey guys
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2179 [15:26:28] <tmm88> can you recommend me a status bar for
linux?
2180 [15:26:30] *** Joins: dArK_IcE (~lawl@replaced-ip )
2181 [15:26:30] <tmm88> thank you
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2193 [15:32:40] <iodev> tmm88: hmm, depends
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2195 [15:34:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1675
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2205 [15:39:37] <epicmetal> So "linux-image-4.14.0-3-amd64
(4.14.12-1)" actually contains upstream kernel version 4.14.12,
right? Looking at
replaced-url
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2208 [15:41:29] <epicmetal> I'd download and check, but the
link is throwing an internal server error
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2213 [15:44:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1683
2214 [15:44:05] <GNU\colossus> epicmetal, yes. plus
distro-specific patches. the changelog and source tarball will hold
more (authoritative) information
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2216 [15:44:57] <rocketmagnet> hi all, i think i found a problem
with the phpmysql admin installation, the install all worked normaly
and i could loginto phpmyadmin, the problem was is was not able to
create databases, i had no priviliges to do anything, i had to
manually add the rights with phpmysql user to get write access
2217 [15:45:18] *** Joins: guest_010101 (~guest@replaced-ip )
2218 [15:45:59] <rocketmagnet> this must be a problem with the
install procedure in debian 9, i did the same like in all other
scenarios but got no write access - only after finding out that i
had to manually add the right - and it's not documented or
anything
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2236 [15:59:30] <epicmetal> GNU\colossus: thanks
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2243 [16:06:11] <asterismo_m> hi
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2245 [16:07:03] <asterismo_m> i'm considering to update
jessie to stretch, i'm running mysql. It's any issues
upgrading to mariadb?
2246 [16:07:18] <asterismo_m> or the upgrade takes care of
everything?
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2248 [16:08:16] <gpunk> the upgrade went fine with me
2249 [16:08:33] <gpunk> automatic migration ...
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2255 [16:09:42] <gpunk> but of course, make backups 1st
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2267 [16:15:25] <gpunk> and I found a couple of software that dont
work with mariadb
2268 [16:15:44] <gpunk> i forgot which , it was a shoping cart
application
2269 [16:16:22] <gpunk> so make sure your apps, can work with
mariadb
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2313 [16:35:19] <friend-to-pandas> On my laptop's Windows 10
partition, I can connect to external monitors through the HDMI and
VGA ports, but on Debian 9.3 only the VGA works. I tested on two
different monitors. What can I do to fix this?
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2340 [16:44:39] <noplease> hallo zusammen
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2358 [16:50:47] <Labu> friend-to-pandas: paste output from xrandr
command
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2367 [16:54:14] <friend-to-pandas> Labu: with one plugged in, or
just normal?
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2371 [16:55:35] <mais> hello, I was researching about making fps
in dota2(its' a valve's game) more than 40, and I came up
with this wiki (replaced-url
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2381 [16:59:12] <friend-to-pandas> Labu: xrandr shows an LVDS-1
and a VGA-1. regardless of whether the VGA-1 is connected or
disconnected, it's not showing any HDMI.
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2384 [17:00:16] <friend-to-pandas> (LVDS being the laptop screen)
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2450 [17:23:37] <ziprandom> hi all, can anyone tell me when the
kaiser patches will land in testing?
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##replaced-url
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2456 [17:25:03] <Megaf> Updating Squeeze on a Pentium II laptop to
Wheezy
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2460 [17:25:54] <tacegory>
replaced-url
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2462 [17:27:04] <Megaf> tacegory: yep, thats the security repo
2463 [17:27:21] <annadane> ziprandom, packages first enter into
unstable and then within 2-10 days end up in testing, which for
security patches i would say it's closer to 2 days
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2466 [17:27:32] <tacegory> Megaf: Thanks
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2468 [17:27:44] <annadane> so i don't actually know but
that's generally the window
2469 [17:27:55] <annadane> for critical security patches it even
may be slightly less than that
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2471 [17:28:03] <Megaf> tacegory: you're welcome, always have
the security.debian.org repo enabled
2472 [17:28:06] <Megaf> and updated
2473 [17:28:07] <ziprandom> annadane: thanks! where can find out
if the patch already landed in unstable
2474 [17:28:13] <tacegory> I have it enabled
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2476 [17:28:35] <Megaf> Or do like me and don't use Intel
CPUs
2477 [17:28:37] <annadane> i'm not sure what kaiser is so
i'm not sure
2478 [17:28:54] <jhutchins> Megaf: It's not just intel.
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2482 [17:29:10] <tacegory> however when I did apt-get upgrade it
held back the package "linux-image-amd64", is that the
package that I want to upgrade?
2483 [17:29:13] <Megaf> is mostly Intel, AMD AFAIK performs a
check
2484 [17:29:15] <ziprandom> annadane: its the patches for the
latest intel apocalypse ...
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2486 [17:29:39] <Megaf> AMD could have the flaw, however, it does
perform a self check , built in
2487 [17:30:00] <Megaf> maybe now we know why Intel sometimes is
faster
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2489 [17:30:06] <annadane> oh ok that's the name of the
patch, i wasn't aware of that
2490 [17:30:11] <Megaf> because it doesnt do security check
2491 [17:30:16] <Megaf> anyway, thats offtiopic
2492 [17:30:31] <annadane> i know it patches meltdown (spectre
hasn't been patched yet even in stable) but i just didn't
know that that's what the patch is
2493 [17:30:52] <annadane> hmm, let me see...
2494 [17:31:00] <ziprandom> annadane: I think they renamed it in
the meantime
2495 [17:31:21] <tacegory> okay, I guess I should do
"dist-upgrade" to actually get the patch?
2496 [17:31:29] <tacegory> it seems like just "upgrade"
doesn't do it
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2498 [17:31:51] <ziprandom> I'm running on testing, so should
I have a line: deb
replaced-url
2499 [17:32:09] <BlackBishop> apt-get install default-mysql-server
yells default-mysql-server : Depends: mariadb-server-10.1 but it is
not going to be installed for some reason :|
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2502 [17:32:59] <BlackBishop> If I add that to the install list it
says about others
2503 [17:33:01] <annadane>
replaced-url
2504 [17:33:11] <annadane> i'm not sure what easier way there
is to check
2505 [17:33:29] <BlackBishop> and in the end .. E: Package
'libjemalloc1' has no installation candidate
2506 [17:33:41] <BlackBishop> after trying default-mysql-server
mariadb-server-10.1 mariadb-client-10.1 mariadb-server-core-10.1
libdbd-mysql-perl
2507 [17:33:41] <rakor> tacegory running stable the patch was
installed using apt upgrade
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2509 [17:34:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1706
2510 [17:34:08] <annadane> ziprandom, see
replaced-url
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2513 [17:34:29] <ziprandom> annadane: thanks!
2514 [17:34:39] <tacegory> apt-get upgrade for me installed just
"linux-compiler-gcc-6-x86 linux-kbuild-4.9 linux-libc-dev"
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2516 [17:34:56] <tacegory> is the patch in those?
2517 [17:35:50] <annadane> actually that wiki link is confusing,
sorry
2518 [17:36:03] <annadane> i don't actually remember what you
need in your sources for testing as i don't use it
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2520 [17:36:22] <tacegory> rakor: what was the name of the package
that it installed?
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2522 [17:36:58] <ziprandom> but running testing I wont need any
backports repo in sources.list right?
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2525 [17:37:07] <annadane> that's right
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2527 [17:37:40] <ziprandom> thaxx, you helped me fix my rotten
sources.list in 3min !!
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2530 [17:37:49] <annadane> but yes, do keep the security line
2531 [17:38:04] <annadane> "If you are tracking testing or
the next-stable code name, you should always have a corresponding
deb
replaced-url
2532 [17:38:43] <annadane> so deb
replaced-url
2533 [17:39:06] <annadane> buster points to a specific release,
"testing" always points to testing even when buster
becomes stable
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2538 [17:40:16] <tacegory> can anybody tell me what should be the
name of the package that contains the patch?
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2540 [17:42:06] <ziprandom> annadane: I see. I'm tracking
testing to never have to care for dist upgrades ..
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2546 [17:44:10] <jhutchins> tacegory: The patch itself or the
patched binary?
2547 [17:44:15] *** Quits: Modeuse (~kvirc@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2548 [17:44:52] <tacegory> well, my current kernel version is
4.9.0-4-amd64 and the dist-upgrade wants to install
linux-image-4.9.0-5-amd64, which doesn't seem to be the patched
version?
2549 [17:45:09] <BlackBishop>
replaced-url
2550 [17:45:10] <tacegory> according to the link:
replaced-url
2551 [17:45:25] <BlackBishop> I don't get it .. why
wouldn't it want to install mariadb-server :|
2552 [17:45:48] <BlackBishop> ( debian 9.3 )
2553 [17:45:55] <tacegory> jhutchins: I don't know, I guess I
am just looking for the name that should be in apt-get
2554 [17:45:58] <jhutchins> linux-image-4.9.0-5-amd64
4.9.65-3+deb9u2
2555 [17:46:23] <jhutchins> tacegory: Debian does strange things
with kernel version numbers.
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2557 [17:46:36] <tacegory> jhutchins: so the first one is patched
too even tho it's not in the link?
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2559 [17:46:54] <jhutchins> tacegory: That's one package.
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2562 [17:47:17] <tacegory> jhutchins: okay, thanks, I just got
confused by the different version numbers
2563 [17:47:18] <rakor> dont remember and am off my notebook now.
2564 [17:47:25] <tacegory> okay, I will do the dist-upgrade
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2567 [17:48:28] <rakor> it was a normal linux.... package, so a
kernelupdatr
2568 [17:49:39] <jhutchins> BlackBishop: apt-cache policy
mariadb-server
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2580 [17:53:41] <BlackBishop> jhutchins:
replaced-url
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2594 [18:00:32] <loddfafnir> hi debian people !
2595 [18:00:39] *** Joins: _0bitcount (~Big_Byte@replaced-ip )
2596 [18:00:54] <BlackBishop> people debian hi
2597 [18:01:32] *** Joins: blackslide (~blackslid@replaced-ip )
2598 [18:01:47] <annadane> i'm not a debian person. i'm
a gentoo person wearing a debian mask.
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2603 [18:02:20] <loddfafnir> I'm experiencing a strange
trouble with kernel 4.14.7 and intel graphics (Intel Atom N2600 GPU)
: when X starts it freezes all system. But, when I start with kernel
4.13.x or 4.9.x everything's ok. Anyone having such a thing ?
2604 [18:02:45] *** Quits: hmonster (~hmonster@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2605 [18:02:56] <BlackBishop> annadane: same here.
2606 [18:03:11] <BlackBishop> I have a debian vm though which
I'm trying some stuff in with little luck.
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2610 [18:04:21] <tacegory> interesting, the computer completely
froze during booting linux after I turned it off and on after
upgrading
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2614 [18:04:36] <tacegory> but the second time it booted fine, so
hopefully it won't do it again
2615 [18:04:44] <annadane> i was actually joking; i'm not
_quite_ at the gentoo level yet. :P
2616 [18:04:48] <annadane> anyway, enough off topic nonsense
2617 [18:04:54] *** Joins: format_c (~koeppea@replaced-ip )
2618 [18:05:02] <BlackBishop> yeah ...
2619 [18:05:09] * BlackBishop smacks some sense into apt
2620 [18:05:24] <BlackBishop> sudo apt install mariadb-server or
else !
2621 [18:05:27] <BlackBishop> nope, no luck.
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2625 [18:08:27] <n4dir> wonders what might be the gentoo level.
can't see much voodoo in it.
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2630 [18:09:00] <annadane> no, not too much voodoo. just lazy and
debian werks
2631 [18:09:02] <BlackBishop> jhutchins: found the problem ! :)
something in preferences.d of apt's conf.
2632 [18:09:03] *** Joins: ilbelkyr (ilbelkyr@replaced-ip )
2633 [18:09:09] <annadane> ah, that'll do it
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2644 [18:12:41] <n4dir> annadane: yup, it's hard to beat
debian, when it comes to comfort (or "just works", or
however you wanna call it).
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2650 [18:14:47] <jimbzy> Gentoo is fine, but if you want the real
linux experience go with Slack.
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2652 [18:16:12] <jimbzy> I guess you could roll your own distro
using LFS, but that's just a bit much.
2653 [18:16:14] *** Joins: simpledat (~user@replaced-ip )
2654 [18:16:19] <simpledat> Hi
2655 [18:16:24] <simpledat> How do I fix this?
2656 [18:16:32] *** Quits: webuser5224 (~webuser52@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2657 [18:16:35] <simpledat> The following packages have been kept
back: linux-headers-amd64 linux-image-amd64
2658 [18:17:23] <n4dir> can't see that in Slackware either.
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2664 [18:18:00] <jimbzy> n4dir: See what?
2665 [18:18:11] <jimbzy> simpledat: Did you use apt or apt-get?
2666 [18:18:13] <n4dir> that it is a real linux experience
2667 [18:18:21] *** Quits: jsubl2 (~jim@replaced-ip ) (Quit: leaving)
2668 [18:18:31] <simpledat> jimbzy: apt-get update &&
apt-get upgrade
2669 [18:18:41] <simpledat> jimbzy: Then I get this message
2670 [18:18:59] <n4dir> apt-get dist-upgrade will probably sort it
(well: it's worth a try)
2671 [18:19:02] <blackslide> umm
2672 [18:19:09] <blackslide> quite aggressive
2673 [18:19:12] <blackslide> :)
2674 [18:19:13] <jaami> how in debian i can send AT commands to
attached SIM900 GSM device?
2675 [18:19:27] <simpledat> n4dir: Did you have to do that too?
2676 [18:19:36] *** Joins: asterismo_m3 (~Santiago@replaced-ip )
2677 [18:19:52] <blackslide> apt-get dist-upgrade might remove
packages that you don't want to be removed, while doing its
thing...
2678 [18:19:58] <blackslide> can you try
2679 [18:20:00] <n4dir> not yet, as i haven't booted debian
in a while. but it was mentioned here, and it ain't unusual to
do it
2680 [18:20:06] <jimbzy> n4dir: I used slackware way back in the
1900's and it was pretty awesome.
2681 [18:20:25] <blackslide> "sudo apt-get install
linux-headers-amd64 linux-image-amd64"
2682 [18:20:26] <simpledat> blackslide: What packages? I dont want
really to remove anything.
2683 [18:20:27] <blackslide> ?
2684 [18:20:27] <n4dir> add -s , like simulate, blackslide. It
will tell you if it will remove anything you might want to keep
2685 [18:20:47] <blackslide> that's true
2686 [18:21:06] <blackslide> I'd still try that first :)
2687 [18:21:16] <towo`> use apt upgrade if you fear removal of
packages
2688 [18:21:34] <blackslide> apt upgrade gave him the error
2689 [18:21:43] <blackslide> or, rather, a warning
2690 [18:21:45] <towo`> blackslide, no, apt-get upgrade
2691 [18:21:47] <blackslide> might not be fatal
2692 [18:22:00] <simpledat> So they are not kept back just because
they depend on any other package?
2693 [18:22:11] <towo`> and it's not an error, it's
normal for apt-get upgrade command
2694 [18:22:15] <blackslide> simpledat tried apt-get upgrade...
2695 [18:22:24] *** Quits: qwery (~yooltide@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2696 [18:22:25] <simpledat> Yes I did
2697 [18:22:30] <blackslide> yea
2698 [18:22:43] <blackslide> it's just a note, that it held
those packages back
2699 [18:22:52] *** Quits: asterismo_m2 (~Santiago@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2700 [18:23:10] <blackslide> but if you tried my command and it
fixes it, then good..
2701 [18:23:11] *** Quits: walnut_burl (~oak@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2702 [18:23:12] <towo`> apt-get upgrade will ever hold packages,
if they need installing new packages
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2705 [18:23:27] <blackslide> it did for simpledat.. ^
2706 [18:23:28] *** Joins: newbie (~kvirc@replaced-ip )
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2708 [18:23:33] <simpledat> blackside: Because they depend on
other package that could broke them?
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2710 [18:23:45] <jaami> is it possible to use terminal to send AT
commands to attached GSM device?
2711 [18:24:15] <n4dir> simpledat: what towo` said.
2712 [18:24:18] <blackslide> can you try "apt-get install
blablalba" ?
2713 [18:24:31] <towo`> again, there is no error
2714 [18:24:35] <blackslide> it should fix it, or it will tell
what dependencies it has
2715 [18:24:45] <towo`> it's absolute normal for that command
2716 [18:25:08] <simpledat> n4dir: So Im the only one getting this
message?
2717 [18:25:11] <blackslide> not saying it's an error, just
trying to get it fixed for him
2718 [18:25:14] <towo`> there is no dependency problem
2719 [18:25:18] <blackslide> did you try?
2720 [18:25:23] *** Joins: Modeuse (~kvirc@replaced-ip )
2721 [18:25:29] <towo`> the fix is apt upgrade or apt dist-upgrade
2722 [18:25:49] <simpledat> blackslide: apt-get install
linux-headers-amd64 linux-image-amd64, will actually install this
packages.
2723 [18:25:51] <n4dir> it can't be put any better than towo`
already did.
2724 [18:26:00] *** Joins: DeadTOm (~deadtom@replaced-ip )
2725 [18:26:01] <simpledat> But my question is, why apt-get
upgrade wont?
2726 [18:26:15] <towo`> simpledat, read the manpage
2727 [18:26:15] <simpledat> Why are they kept back in first place?
2728 [18:26:24] <jimbzy> towo`: So the packages are held to
prevent dependency problems?
2729 [18:26:28] <towo`> because apt-get upgrade will never install
new packages
2730 [18:26:29] <n4dir> because upgrade won't install new
packages.
2731 [18:26:42] <towo`> but apt upgrade will do
2732 [18:26:45] <n4dir> doesn't the manpage explain it like
that?
2733 [18:26:51] <towo`> it does
2734 [18:27:04] <towo`> but no one read it
2735 [18:27:12] <blackslide> hehe
2736 [18:27:21] <jimbzy> It sure does.
2737 [18:27:28] <blackslide> I always use apt upgrade anyhow :)
2738 [18:27:31] <simpledat> towo`: I always install new packages
with apt-get upgrade and it works.
2739 [18:27:38] <jaami> i did, but did not understand :D
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2741 [18:27:54] <towo`> simpledat, no, you do only update
installed ones
2742 [18:27:58] *** Joins: cereal_poster (~cereal_po@replaced-ip )
2743 [18:28:11] <towo`> apt-get upgrade will newer install new
packages, if they are needed
2744 [18:28:12] *** Quits: wzyy2 (~wzyy2@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2745 [18:28:47] <simpledat> towo`: So why are this packages listed
under apt-get upgrade?
2746 [18:29:08] <towo`> what packages are listed?
2747 [18:29:16] <simpledat> The following packages have been kept
back:
2748 [18:29:17] <simpledat> linux-headers-amd64 linux-image-amd64
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2751 [18:29:31] <simpledat> towo`: This 2
2752 [18:29:32] <towo`> because they can't be upgraded
2753 [18:29:50] <coruja> simpledat, because if they are upgraded,
new packages will be installed
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2756 [18:29:56] <towo`> they need new packages, which can't
be installed with apt-get upgrade
2757 [18:30:09] <simpledat> towo`: So they are already installed.
But you said you do only update installed ones. Why dont they update
then?
2758 [18:30:13] <towo`> whyt is so hard to understand?
2759 [18:30:21] <jaami> does anyone get my messages?
2760 [18:30:23] <towo`> simpledat, learn to read
2761 [18:30:30] <simpledat> towo`: I try.
2762 [18:30:34] <annadane> jaami, yes
2763 [18:30:41] <towo`> simpledat, linux-headers-amd64 are
metapackages
2764 [18:30:44] <jaami> thx annadane
2765 [18:30:51] <n4dir> running apt-get upgrade and apt-get
dist-upgrade in a row always seemed like the most natural thing to
me. Never had any problems with it. But that is just chat.
2766 [18:31:09] *** Quits: cereal_poster (~cereal_po@replaced-ip ) (Client Quit)
2767 [18:31:14] <annadane> gentoo frowns upon your
"dist-upgrade"
2768 [18:31:46] <n4dir> ain't it upgrade-all in gentoo?
2769 [18:31:58] <n4dir> perhaps even something with world ...
2770 [18:32:11] <annadane> i think it's emerge
2771 [18:32:15] <simpledat> towo`: So what do you think I should
do?
2772 [18:32:15] <annadane> anyway, sorry
2773 [18:32:16] *** Joins: Hydrastra (~LUX@replaced-ip )
2774 [18:32:32] <coruja> ,v cu
2775 [18:32:33] <towo`> simpledat, again, apt upgrade or apt
dist-upgrade
2776 [18:32:34] <judd> Package: cu on amd64 -- wheezy: 1.07-20;
jessie: 1.07-20.1; stretch: 1.07-23+b1; buster: 1.07-24; sid:
1.07-24
2777 [18:32:43] <coruja> ^ jaami
2778 [18:32:43] <towo`> simpledat, what is the problem?
2779 [18:33:16] <n4dir> annadane: yes, sure. but enough of it.
2780 [18:33:27] <jaami> coruja: hi
2781 [18:33:31] *** Joins: thiras (~thiras@replaced-ip )
2782 [18:33:53] <simpledat> towo`: I do not want to break other
packages that are dependent on these packages. How can I make sure I
do not?
2783 [18:34:03] <towo`> simpledat, you use stable
2784 [18:34:16] <coruja> by reading apt meessages
2785 [18:34:21] <towo`> in stable there will newer be a break
2786 [18:34:23] <coruja> -e
2787 [18:34:32] <jaami> coruja: what i do to run AT commands in
terminal?
2788 [18:34:34] <simpledat> towo`: I use stretch. Is that not
stable?
2789 [18:34:39] <n4dir> add -s , so you simulate. Often, if not
usually, you are getting asked if you "want to go on
yes/no" anyway, but -s makes it sure
2790 [18:34:44] <towo`> simpledat, and again, read the manpage
about upgrade
2791 [18:34:55] <annadane> stretch is, indeed, stable
2792 [18:35:06] <coruja> jaami, as i tried to suggest, install cu
;)
2793 [18:35:29] <jaami> coruja: sorry, missed that message. Thanks
a lot
2794 [18:35:47] *** Quits: hikiko (~hikiko@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2795 [18:35:49] <simpledat> Can I use apt-get dist-upgrade instead
of apt dist-upgrade?
2796 [18:35:56] <simpledat> towo`
2797 [18:36:01] *** Joins: unlimited123 (~unlimited@replaced-ip )
2798 [18:36:03] <towo`> sure you can
2799 [18:36:13] <towo`> but what's your problem with using
apt?
2800 [18:36:13] <n4dir> where is greycat when you need him ...
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2803 [18:37:08] <simpledat> towo`: Im used to apt-get :) Whats the
difference anyway?
2804 [18:37:18] <towo`> simpledat, again, read the manpage
2805 [18:37:24] <towo`> it will tell you all
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2810 [18:39:11] <ori>
replaced-url
2811 [18:40:04] <annadane> not having to type "-get"
every time is also nice
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2814 [18:40:18] <blackslide> in short: apt-get upgrade won't
install new missing packages, apt will
2815 [18:40:29] <blackslide> neither will remove anything while
doing the upgrade
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2819 [18:41:09] <blackslide> apparently your system is missing
those two packages, so apt-get upgrade won't install those, apt
upgrade will
2820 [18:41:15] *** Quits: jubo2 (~juboxi@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2821 [18:41:46] <blackslide> did it clarify, or make it more
confusing ? :D
2822 [18:41:47] <n4dir> annadane: with "alternate mappings
for page up and down" in inputrc i usually just type a and then
hit page-up ...
2823 [18:41:57] <simpledat> blackslide: So I did not use any
kernel then?
2824 [18:42:17] <annadane> sure, zsh or fish probably have similar
features
2825 [18:42:32] <n4dir> i heard so. but they are beyond me :-)
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2833 [18:43:51] <blackslide> umm, try apt-cache search
linux-headers
2834 [18:44:37] *** Quits: Posterdati (~kvirc@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2835 [18:44:41] <blackslide> what does "uname -r" say?
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2844 [18:51:31] <simpledat> blackslide: 4.9.0-4-amd64
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2847 [18:52:05] <simpledat> Can I see if linux-headers-amd64
linux-image-amd64 are depends on any packages?
2848 [18:52:26] <blackslide> that should be up tp date
2849 [18:52:30] <somiaj> you mean do any packages depend on those?
2850 [18:52:31] <blackslide> so I don't get that warning
2851 [18:52:54] <somiaj> (if you don't have security sources,
you won't have access to the new kernel update)
2852 [18:53:07] *** Joins: MikeDebian (~Mike@replaced-ip )
2853 [18:53:34] <simpledat> blackslide: I did run apt-get
dist-upgrade
2854 [18:53:47] *** Joins: dert (~Mutter@replaced-ip )
2855 [18:53:49] <blackslide> ok, did that fix everything?
2856 [18:53:58] *** Quits: dert (~Mutter@replaced-ip ) (Client Quit)
2857 [18:54:07] <blackslide> btw, what cpu speed/stress utility
would you guys use?
2858 [18:54:19] <blackslide> I've found stress-ng and
sysbench
2859 [18:54:42] <blackslide> just to see basic system performance
2860 [18:54:54] <simpledat> blackslide: Fix what? :) My system was
never broken. But now atleast Im against the intel and amd cpu bug,
right?
2861 [18:55:14] <blackslide> what does apt-get upgrade say now?
2862 [18:55:16] <simpledat> I mean, now Im protected against the
intel and amd kernel bug?
2863 [18:55:29] <blackslide> do you get that "packages were
held..." message?
2864 [18:55:32] <somiaj> simpledat: the current dsa fix is only
against meltdown (intel). There is not a way yet to midigate the
specter attack vector.
2865 [18:55:39] <blackslide> as in, that was your problem in the
first place
2866 [18:55:51] <blackslide> ?
2867 [18:55:57] <simpledat> blackslide: no, 0 upgraded, 0 newly
installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
2868 [18:56:32] <simpledat> blackslide: I did not want to force
install to broke anything.
2869 [18:56:36] <blackslide> so everything is cherry
2870 [18:56:38] *** Quits: bolovanos (~bolovanos@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2871 [18:56:40] <blackslide> ?
2872 [18:56:45] *** Quits: synthmeat (~synthmeat@replaced-ip ) (Quit: WeeChat 2.0.1)
2873 [18:56:47] *** Quits: jaami (~me@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
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2875 [18:56:52] <blackslide> or you still get that?
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2878 [18:57:55] <simpledat> somiaj: What is the difference? What
is the specter attack?
2879 [18:58:46] *** Joins: synthmeat (~synthmeat@replaced-ip )
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2883 [18:59:46] <simpledat> I mean what is the difference between
meltdown and specter attack?
2884 [19:00:01] <somiaj> simpledat: read up on it, my information
isn't that good and I don't want to give misinformation on
this
2885 [19:00:32] <_0xis>
replaced-url
2886 [19:00:33] <annadane> simpledat,
replaced-url
2887 [19:00:43] <_0xis> haha sweet timing
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2890 [19:00:48] <somiaj> meltdown was an issue with intel only
cpu's that allowed userland to access memeory it wasn't
allowed to. Specter is a more general flaw in all cpus, (intel, amd
and arm) that gives another attack vector.
2891 [19:01:11] <annadane> also, meltdown was patched for debian,
spectre wasn't
2892 [19:01:18] <annadane> (yet?)
2893 [19:01:32] *** Quits: unlimited123 (~unlimited@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2894 [19:01:35] <_0xis> I know firefox pushed an update. Which one
was it for?
2895 [19:02:03] *** Quits: dArK_IcE (~lawl@replaced-ip ) ()
2896 [19:02:18] <somiaj> annadane: there really isn't a patch
yet for spectre, as they are still trying to figure out how to best
midigate it.
2897 [19:02:26] <annadane> yep
2898 [19:02:28] <simpledat> somiaj: So the update for
linux-headers-amd64 linux-image-amd64 was to protect me against
meltdown attack, right?
2899 [19:03:04] <jhutchins> somiaj: What's the factoid for
the items needed to diagnose an apt problem (package held or
something)?
2900 [19:03:15] <somiaj> simpledat: make sure you have the
linux-kernel-4.9.0-5-amd64 version 4.9.65-3+deb9u2 installed
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2904 [19:03:28] <somiaj> jhutchins: bat?
2905 [19:03:34] <jhutchins> That's it, thanks.
2906 [19:03:47] <annadane> there's probably a few of them
2907 [19:03:51] <annadane> but yeah also bat
2908 [19:04:04] *** Quits: Tigerbot_Hesh (~TigerbotH@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2909 [19:04:14] <jhutchins> That's the one I was thinking of.
I knew it wasn't bob.
2910 [19:04:25] <simpledat> somiaj: linux-headers-4.9.0-5-common
linux-image-4.9.0-5-amd64
2911 [19:04:35] <simpledat> The following packages will be
upgraded: linux-headers-amd64 linux-image-amd64
2912 [19:04:42] <somiaj> simpledat: linux-image-amd64 is just a
meta package that points at the current kernel, this should have
pulled in the correct package for you, I just wanted to give you the
actual packge to check for.
2913 [19:04:53] *** Joins: manjaro-kde5 (~manjaro-k@replaced-ip )
2914 [19:05:31] <simpledat> somiaj: How do I see what kernel I
use?
2915 [19:05:39] <blackslide> what does "uname -r" say?
2916 [19:05:48] <somiaj> _0xis: it might have been spectre, I know
javascript is a big concern. It won't stop spectre, but I think
one can help midigate it from webbrowser attacks.
2917 [19:05:52] <blackslide> oh, that doesn't give full
version
2918 [19:05:57] *** Joins: azur_kind (~azur_kind@replaced-ip )
2919 [19:06:04] <simpledat> blackslide: 4.9.0-4-amd64
2920 [19:06:15] <annadane> i think _0xis means which firefox
version
2921 [19:06:15] <somiaj> simpledat: uname -a gives you the running
kernel, ls /boot or dpkg -l | linux-images tells you the kernels you
have installed and or put in /boot
2922 [19:06:26] <annadane> and i recall seeing that as well, i
just don't remember
2923 [19:06:27] <somiaj> simpledat: you ahve to reboot to get
running the newer kernel. That is still the old kernel.
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2928 [19:07:02] <somiaj> annadane: I thought the question was
metldown or spectre, and my guess is it is maybe against spectre,
since meltdown is a cpu/kernel thing.
2929 [19:07:11] <NetTerminalGene> intel sold their 8th gen cpu by
knowing the flaw
2930 [19:07:31] <somiaj> NetTerminalGene: maybe, but this
isn't the place to discuss intel's politics.
2931 [19:07:32] <annadane> okay, but let's not get into a
huge discussion about it, #debian-offtopic is a better place for it
2932 [19:08:13] <simpledat> somiaj: So the update for
linux-headers-amd64 linux-image-amd64 was to protect me against
meltdown attack, right?
2933 [19:08:15] <blackslide> yes, I assume it's hard to swap
a kernel while the system is running
2934 [19:08:16] <blackslide> :D
2935 [19:08:35] *** Joins: nic_ (~nic@replaced-ip )
2936 [19:08:38] <simpledat> Sorry for repeat. I just want to know
2937 [19:08:47] <NetTerminalGene> simpledat, yes. it is only for
meltdown
2938 [19:08:55] <somiaj> simpledat: I just explained this.
linux-headers-amd64 and linux-image-amd64 are just meta packages.
They should pull in the actual kernel that was fixed. Check that.
2939 [19:09:05] <simpledat> Ok thank you
2940 [19:09:07] <simpledat> brb reboot
2941 [19:09:08] *** Quits: simpledat (~user@replaced-ip ) (Quit: leaving)
2942 [19:09:15] <blackslide> go read
2943 [19:09:19] <blackslide> duh
2944 [19:09:19] <blackslide> :D
2945 [19:09:25] <somiaj> so I would check you had the correct
kernel installed, not just that your meta packages were upgraded.
2946 [19:09:31] <annadane> they left already
2947 [19:09:59] <_0xis> somiaj: yea, i looked it up
replaced-url
2948 [19:10:16] <annadane> ^ which i don't think is in any
debian version yet
2949 [19:10:26] <annadane> stable or unstable
2950 [19:10:27] <_0xis> I don't think that there's an
update for esr yet
2951 [19:10:31] *** Joins: jaami (~me@replaced-ip )
2952 [19:10:31] <annadane> experimental is firefox 58
2953 [19:10:43] <somiaj> nope, I still think the whole rust issues
needs to be figured out. Though they may backport such a fix to -esr
which would make it to debian.
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2966 [19:14:08] <blackslide> according the latest DSA
documentation
2967 [19:14:12] *** Joins: lingkhang (~lingkhang@replaced-ip )
2968 [19:14:16] <blackslide> "DSA-4078-1 linux -- security
update"
2969 [19:14:22] *** Joins: oish (~charlie@replaced-ip )
2970 [19:14:28] *** Joins: simpledat (~user@replaced-ip )
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2973 [19:14:40] <blackslide> "This specific attack has been
named Meltdown and is addressed in the Linux kernel for the Intel
x86-64 architecture by a patch set named "
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2975 [19:14:52] *** Joins: abba (~abba@replaced-ip )
2976 [19:14:54] <blackslide> "The other vulnerabilities
(named Spectre) published at the same time are not addressed in this
update and will be fixed in a later update."
2977 [19:15:06] <simpledat> How do I see what kernel I use now
again?
2978 [19:15:15] <blackslide> uname -a
2979 [19:15:17] <somiaj> which is a nice way to say, we
aren't quite sure how to fully address spectre at this time.
2980 [19:15:24] *** Joins: emdee (~noEmail@replaced-ip )
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2982 [19:15:35] <annadane> which is why i said "yet?"
because while it's possible it does get fixed in a future
update it's unclear whether it can even be patched at this
point
2983 [19:15:41] <blackslide> yes
2984 [19:15:43] <simpledat> blackslide: Linux unknown
4.9.0-5-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.9.65-3+deb9u2 (2018-01-04) x86_64
GNU/Linux
2985 [19:16:18] *** Quits: abba (~abba@replaced-ip ) (Client Quit)
2986 [19:16:18] <blackslide> well, the date is 04 jan...
2987 [19:16:35] *** Joins: abba (~abba@replaced-ip )
2988 [19:16:38] <simpledat> blackslide: What about it?
2989 [19:16:54] <blackslide> everything else working fine after
dist-upgrade?
2990 [19:17:00] *** Quits: manjaro-kde5 (~manjaro-k@replaced-ip ) (Client Quit)
2991 [19:17:07] <blackslide> that's the newest kernel
2992 [19:17:10] <simpledat> blackslide: I hope so
2993 [19:17:17] <blackslide> DSA-4078-1 linux -- security update
2994 [19:17:17] <blackslide> Date Reported:
2995 [19:17:18] <blackslide> 04 Jan 2018
2996 [19:17:26] <NetTerminalGene> i had to do dist-upgrade to
install latest kernel
2997 [19:17:26] <blackslide> sorry for the pastes..
2998 [19:17:38] <blackslide> that's weird
2999 [19:17:46] <blackslide> apt should do that automagically...
3000 [19:17:46] <simpledat> somiaj: So now Im protected against
meltdown attack?
3001 [19:18:06] <blackslide> yes
3002 [19:18:11] <simpledat> Good
3003 [19:18:15] <annadane> once and for all: 1) apt upgrade works
2) apt dist-upgrade works 3) apt-get dist-upgrade works 4) apt-get
upgrade does not work
3004 [19:18:16] <somiaj> NetTerminalGene: correct, the abi jump
caused a new kernel package. apt upgrade or aptitude upgrade would
have also worked, but with apt-get you have to use a dist-upgrade
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3006 [19:18:22] <somiaj> simpledat: you are as procted as anyone
running debian stretch.
3007 [19:18:41] <simpledat> somiaj: Fair enough?
3008 [19:19:02] *** Joins: jsdk (~jsdk@replaced-ip )
3009 [19:19:14] <blackslide> hmm, how do you list number of cores
that the os sees?
3010 [19:19:28] *** Joins: manjaro-kde5 (~manjaro-k@replaced-ip )
3011 [19:19:44] <simpledat> somiaj: Do you know when the patch for
spectre attack release?
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3013 [19:19:46] <somiaj> blackslide: cat /proc/cpuinfo should list
all the cores (though it calls them cpus)
3014 [19:19:57] <Brigo> blackslide, lscpu could help too
3015 [19:20:07] <blackslide> oh,
3016 [19:20:15] <somiaj> simpledat: I think you should pay
attention to what people tell you more. We already said that it is
currently unknown how to best midagate the spectre attack.
3017 [19:20:28] <blackslide> I was reading cat /proc/cpuinfo... :D
lscpu was what I was looking for :D
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3021 [19:20:35] <somiaj> simpledat: there are also tons of
webpages that explain in more details about it
3022 [19:20:45] *** Quits: weixiaobao (~weixiaoba@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
3023 [19:20:54] <friend-to-pandas> On my laptop's Windows 10
partition, I can connect to external monitors through the HDMI and
VGA ports -- even both at the same time -- but on Debian 9.3 only
the VGA works. I tested this on two different monitors. xrandr does
not even show an HDMI port option. What can I do to fix this?
3024 [19:21:19] *** Quits: dreamon_ (~dreamon@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
3025 [19:21:35] <simpledat> somiaj: Is the meltdown attack more
aggressive than the spectre attack? Therefore devs has priority to
patch the meltdown attack first?
3026 [19:21:38] <somiaj> friend-to-pandas: what video card does
the laptop use? Is it some optimus (intel+nvidia) combo setup.
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3028 [19:22:35] <friend-to-pandas> somiaj: Intel HD 4000
integrated
3029 [19:22:47] <simpledat> somiaj: I try to read and understand
everything you write here
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3032 [19:23:09] <blackslide> so the 4 CPU's that the system
sees, are the "threads"? since I have 2 Cores/socket and 2
Threads/core
3033 [19:23:17] <somiaj> simpledat: I would go read up on this
since you seem interested. In this case kernel/security experts
figured out a way to get around the flaw in intel CPUs called
meltdown, so they fixed it. Spectre is a different story.
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3036 [19:23:42] <somiaj> friend-to-pandas: are you sure the i915
module is loaded? Are you using the modesetting or intel xorg
driver?
3037 [19:23:43] <NetTerminalGene> simpledat, according to
articles, spectre is more hard to attack. people who wrote paper
about spectre says there may not be a software solution for that
attack. it is a hardware flaw
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3041 [19:24:26] <somiaj> NetTerminalGene: metldown is also a
hardare flaw, but there was a midagation against it, unforntually a
software solution (which is a preformance hit) is a fix to the
hardware flaw in the case of meltdown.
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3045 [19:25:18] <friend-to-pandas> somiaj: those are all new words
to me so I don't know. I am using whatever driver auto-loaded,
my vrms shows tho only non-free is my wireless driver.
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3047 [19:26:27] <somiaj> friend-to-pandas: these are things I
would look at to try to diganose why xrandr isn't seeing the
hdmi output. If it isn't an optimus setup and actually is an
intel+nvidia combo video card, it seems it is just the intel video
drivers aren't fully detecting the hdmi port.
3048 [19:27:13] <somiaj> friend-to-pandas: in this case I would
look at both my kernel and my Xorg.0.log file to see exactly what is
beign auto-detected and loaded. In stretch intel cards maybe using
the modesetting driver or the intel driver in xorg, and the one that
gets used could have an affect on things like xrandr.
3049 [19:27:21] <somiaj> so if using modesetting driver, switch to
intel or visa-versa
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3059 [19:29:22] <friend-to-pandas> somiaj: Thanks, I'll look
there.
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3069 [19:31:32] <msiism> is there any ETA for meltdown/spectre
patches for debian oldstable/jessie yet?
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3072 [19:33:11] <holden-> I was going to ask the same, msiism
3073 [19:33:18] <somiaj> msiism: debian's ETAs are
alawys' when it is ready.
3074 [19:33:19] <holden-> I just saw it was fixed for sid and
stable
3075 [19:33:39] <somiaj> I saw a proposed patch for wheezy and I
think they are working on one for jessie, but I think the team is
testing them before deploying.
3076 [19:33:50] <annadane> for meltdown, jessie will probably be
patched relatively soon; it's an open question as to whether
spectre even can be patched as of now
3077 [19:34:03] <annadane> on any release, not just jessie
3078 [19:34:26] <msiism> ok. and would it help to install kernel
4.9 from jessie backports as an interim soultion?
3079 [19:35:14] <somiaj> msiism: no, most likely the backport
kernel is not fixed
3080 [19:35:18] <somiaj> ,kernels
3081 [19:35:19] <judd> Available kernel versions are:
experimental: 4.15.0-rc5-686-pae (4.15~rc5-1~exp1); sid:
4.14.0-3-686-pae (4.14.12-2); buster: 4.14.0-2-686-pae (4.14.7-1);
stretch-backports: 4.14.0-0.bpo.2-686-pae (4.14.7-1~bpo9+1);
stretch: 4.9.0-5-686 (4.9.65-3+deb9u2); jessie-backports:
4.9.0-0.bpo.4-686 (4.9.65-3+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 3.16.0-4-686-pae
(3.16.51-2); wheezy-backports:
3082 [19:35:20] <judd> 3.16.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae
(3.16.39-1+deb8u1~bpo70+1); wheezy: 3.2.0-4-686-pae (3.2.96-2)
3083 [19:35:59] <somiaj> oh nevermind, guess they did fix the
backport kernel. I guess the backport kernel could work, it will
have abi changes from the current kernel and changing from 3.16 to
4.9 may have other issues.
3084 [19:36:19] <somiaj> but I do know there is work going on to
backport kpi to the jessie and wheezy stock kernels
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3086 [19:37:45] <msiism> somiaj: ok. so, it's probably best
to wait for the fix.
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3088 [19:38:16] <bolt> What's the difference between the
updated microcodes some motherboard manufacturers provide as
firmware updates and the intel-microcode packages in Debian? Are
they doing the same thing?
3089 [19:38:17] *** Quits: amcorreia (~amcorreia@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
3090 [19:38:33] *** Quits: s0n1cB00m (~s0n1cB00m@replaced-ip ) ()
3091 [19:38:37] <somiaj> msiism: that is your call, if you really
think meltdown is going to be an issue for you (note they have known
about this for months), you could try it, but backport kernesl could
come with other issues.
3092 [19:38:48] *** Joins: s0n1cB00m (~s0n1cB00m@replaced-ip )
3093 [19:38:49] <bolt> i.e. if my vendor doesn't release an
updated bios, does the intel-microcode package, when updated, do the
job?
3094 [19:39:00] *** Joins: cdown (~cdown@replaced-ip )
3095 [19:39:13] <somiaj> bolt: microcode is just for the cpu (not
the mobo firmware). But yes the intel-microcode package will contain
microcode updates form intel
3096 [19:39:16] <somiaj> !microcode
3097 [19:39:16] <dpkg> Microcode are instructions/structures for
implementing high-level machine code within processors. The Linux
kernel can load updated microcode on most x86 processors. Microcode
patches for Intel and AMD64 CPUs are packaged for Debian as
intel-microcode and amd64-microcode respectively; installing the
relevant package is recommended to ensure system stability. Ask me
about <non-free sources>.
replaced-url
3098 [19:39:44] *** Quits: randomstrangerb (~randomstr@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
3099 [19:39:48] <somiaj> bolt: the issue is with the cpu which
loads microcode from userland, linux kernel does this. a
firware/bios upgrade for the mobo is different firmware.
3100 [19:40:04] *** Joins: randomstrangerb (~randomstr@replaced-ip )
3101 [19:41:19] <bolt> somiaj: i just don't get how some
people seem to be claiming they're testing meltdown
before/after performance with a software patch, and a bios/microcode
update. can the bios also update the microcode on boot? which will
then be replaced again by what the kernel loads? or is microcode
update via motherboard firmware simply bogus?
3102 [19:42:07] *** Quits: drGspot (~gg@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
3103 [19:42:10] <NetTerminalGene> bios can update microcode
3104 [19:42:20] <bolt> but the OS does it too?
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3106 [19:42:31] *** Joins: Nnavd (~Nnavd@replaced-ip )
3107 [19:42:36] <NetTerminalGene> i don't know which one is
priority
3108 [19:42:40] <somiaj> I'm unsure on the details there.
Maybe some mobo's include the microcode in their firmware, but
that seems like a strange way to do it, when it would be better just
to have intel ship the microcode and let the kernel load it into the
cpu's memeory.
3109 [19:43:15] <bolt> it would be rather sad if there's
cases where the motherboard vendor loads some microcode from the
firmware and then the OS replaces it with something older
3110 [19:43:17] <somiaj> in the case of meltdown though, I
didn't think microcode could fix the issue, hence why the
kernel has to implement this layer between user and system memory.
3111 [19:43:50] <bolt> you're right afaik. microcode could
perhaps help in speeding things back up a bit though
3112 [19:44:00] <somiaj> bolt: hopefully they designed it to load
the newest version. Though I'm not sure how common it is for
people to upgrade their firmware, while microcode will come with
software paches from your os.
3113 [19:44:39] <NetTerminalGene> bolt, bios firmware also
includes intel management engine
3114 [19:44:48] <somiaj> I have a very small sample set, but to me
I don't see people upgrading their mobo firmware that often
(though maybe modern machines on windows do this via software
updates from dell)
3115 [19:45:21] *** Joins: nic_ (~nic@replaced-ip )
3116 [19:45:29] <blackslide> OEM machines do that on windows..
they even do gfx card firmware updates on the fly, etc..
3117 [19:45:36] <blackslide> and that is not too nice...
3118 [19:45:38] <bolt> my motherboard vendor, supermicro, actually
recommends not upgrading the firmware unless you're having a
specific problem mentioned in their patch notes
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3120 [19:45:44] <NetTerminalGene> bolt, you can think bios
firmware as all in one pocket
3121 [19:45:49] <blackslide> a lot of cr** get's through
unfiltered..
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3126 [19:46:20] <somiaj> blackslide: yea, I can see things like
dell/hp who make closed systems pushing out firmware updates via
software patches.
3127 [19:46:20] <jhutchins> somiaj: In the early 2000's
lenovos usually had one BIOS update by the time they hit the field,
but manufacturers aren't too keen about keeping old hardware up
to date.
3128 [19:46:23] *** Quits: cdown (~cdown@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
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3130 [19:46:41] <PirrY> helo
3131 [19:46:47] <PirrY> hello*
3132 [19:46:48] <bolt> ehlo
3133 [19:46:54] <annadane> aloha
3134 [19:46:56] <jhutchins> somiaj: Firmware though - the Intel
firmware package gets regular updates.
3135 [19:46:56] <bolt> oh, we're not doing mail?
3136 [19:47:05] <blackslide> I used to work at an OEM support
team.. every now and then, a crop of bricked gfx cards,
motherboards, hdd's, etc. would pop up, because the units
installed a buggy firmware from windows update..
3137 [19:48:32] *** Joins: dacav (~dacav@replaced-ip )
3138 [19:48:41] <blackslide> as if the overheating/non-lead solder
laptops were not enough..
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3150 [19:52:01] <jhutchins> So how can you tell if your CPU needs
the microcode package?
3151 [19:53:08] *** Joins: nomic (~nomic4@replaced-ip )
3152 [19:53:41] <NetTerminalGene> by following intel security
bulletin
3153 [19:53:43] *** Quits: Nnavd (~Nnavd@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
3154 [19:53:57] <annadane> jhutchins, in general terms? my
understanding is you always should have it
3155 [19:54:01] *** Joins: Nnavd (~Nnavd@replaced-ip )
3156 [19:54:03] <annadane> of course it depends on how much of a
purist you are
3157 [19:54:16] <GNU\colossus> jhutchins, I'd say by `dmesg |
fgrep microcode` right now, then installing the package, rebooting,
and `dmesg | fgrep microcode` again. if the date/revision changed,
you probably needed it :S
3158 [19:54:17] <jhutchins> annadane: Doesn't seem to be
installed by default.
3159 [19:54:21] <annadane> no
3160 [19:54:26] <GNU\colossus> yeah, its non-free after all
3161 [19:54:29] <annadane> because it's in non free
3162 [19:54:34] <annadane> as colossus just said
3163 [19:54:51] <jhutchins> annadane: Ok, that makes sense.
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3166 [19:55:31] <NetTerminalGene> i believe debian doesn't
update the microcode. i may be wrong
3167 [19:55:39] <annadane> it does in unstable
3168 [19:55:47] <annadane> not sure how stable handles it
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3171 [19:56:30] *** Joins: simonlnu (~eric@replaced-ip )
3172 [19:57:07] <GNU\colossus> I've seen at least one update
during the lifetime of jessie
3173 [19:57:08] *** Quits: citypw (~citypw@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
3174 [19:57:20] <GNU\colossus> (and more recent snapshots are
sometimes available in backports)
3175 [19:57:48] <GNU\colossus> if the ucode update is actually
this critically important as for fixing meltdown-esque bugs,
I'm pretty sure Debian will update the package
3176 [19:57:55] <annadane> yep
3177 [19:58:05] <annadane> it would be silly to assume no stable
microcode updates anyway
3178 [19:58:24] <GNU\colossus> well, non-free isn't covered
by security after all
3179 [19:58:26] *** Joins: Nh3xus (~Nh3xus@replaced-ip )
3180 [19:58:27] <annadane> i just don't know how *often* they
happen, whether it's the same as the next stable release for
non critical cases
3181 [19:58:33] <annadane> right, that too
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3188 [20:01:05] <blackslide> so we need a microcode update from
non-free? Or are we good after the 04/01 kernel patch?
3189 [20:01:24] <blackslide> running debian stretch on intel i7
3190 [20:01:25] *** Quits: sh00p (~z@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3191 [20:02:09] <annadane> the kernel patch suffices for meltdown
3192 [20:02:22] *** Joins: azur_kind (~azur_kind@replaced-ip )
3193 [20:02:28] <annadane> neither meltdown nor spectre to my
knowledge can be resolved via microcode, it has to be a kernel
upgrade
3194 [20:02:58] <annadane> (in the case of meltdown. spectre we
don't know anything about yet, whether it can be fixed or not)
3195 [20:03:05] *** Joins: manjaro (~manjaro@replaced-ip )
3196 [20:03:24] <manjaro> Selamun Aleykum
3197 [20:03:45] <blackslide> okay, so non-free/microcode just
gives cpu microcode optimization from the proc manufacturer?
3198 [20:04:02] <blackslide> hi
3199 [20:04:13] *** Quits: DerLGm (~DerLGm@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Hold on, brb.)
3200 [20:04:22] *** Joins: Dojka (~Dojka@replaced-ip )
3201 [20:04:34] <jhutchins> ,v intel-microcode
3202 [20:04:34] *** Quits: foriin (cenobite@replaced-ip ) (Quit: .)
3203 [20:04:35] <judd> Package: intel-microcode on amd64 --
wheezy/non-free: 1.20150121.1; wheezy-backports/non-free:
3.20161104.1~deb8u1~bpo7+1; jessie-backports/non-free:
3.20170511.1~bpo8+1; jessie/non-free: 3.20170707.1~deb8u1;
stretch/non-free: 3.20170707.1~deb9u1;
jessie-backports-sloppy/non-free: 3.20171117.1~bpo8+1;
stretch-backports/non-free: 3.20171117.1~bpo9+1; buster/non-free:
3.20171117.1;
3204 [20:04:36] <judd> sid/non-free: 3.20171215.1
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3206 [20:04:51] <annadane> well, miscellaneous updates
3207 [20:05:00] <annadane> security patches, in some cases, but
that doesn't work with meltdown as i said
3208 [20:05:19] *** Joins: cousin_luigi (shellful@replaced-ip )
3209 [20:05:21] <cousin_luigi> Greetings.
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3212 [20:06:17] <annadane> jhutchins, actually that may be a bit
disingenous; i only installed intel-microcode after my BIOS gave me
a warning that i should install it
3213 [20:06:22] <annadane> it may not be necessary for all
machines
3214 [20:06:25] *** Quits: mati (~mati@replaced-ip ) (Quit: mati)
3215 [20:06:39] <annadane> so i guess one could put it off until
such time as it's necessary
3216 [20:06:56] <blackslide> hmm, how does your bios know when you
need an update?
3217 [20:06:57] <cousin_luigi> Is the kernel update for the intel
bug ever coming to jessie?
3218 [20:07:11] *** Joins: safe (~safe@replaced-ip )
3219 [20:07:13] <annadane> cousin_luigi, they're working on
it
3220 [20:07:27] <annadane> blackslide, i honestly don't know
3221 [20:07:45] *** Joins: phogg (~phogg@replaced-ip )
3222 [20:07:59] <cousin_luigi> annadane: glad to hear that
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3224 [20:08:21] <cousin_luigi> bbl
3225 [20:08:23] *** Parts: cousin_luigi (shellful@replaced-ip ) ()
3226 [20:08:24] <blackslide> can I check my microcode revision?
3227 [20:08:56] *** Joins: citypw (~citypw@replaced-ip )
3228 [20:09:01] <annadane> blackslide, version or revision? you
can apt changelog <package>
3229 [20:09:17] *** Joins: AlexPortable (uid7568@replaced-ip )
3230 [20:09:21] <annadane> whatever your microcode is, not sure
what the name of it is if you don't have intel
3231 [20:09:38] <blackslide> intel i7
3232 [20:09:51] <annadane> so if it's installed, "apt
changelog intel-microcode"
3233 [20:09:59] *** Quits: crtcji (~crtcji@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
3234 [20:09:59] <blackslide> well, it seems to be
3235 [20:10:03] <annadane> (which gives you both the version and
the changelog)
3236 [20:10:16] *** Joins: crtcji (~crtcji@replaced-ip )
3237 [20:10:29] <blackslide> yup, seems to be up to date then..
3238 [20:10:32] *** Quits: azur_kind (~azur_kind@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3239 [20:10:41] <annadane> actually, sorry, changelog seems to
work for all packages, not just ones installed
3240 [20:10:48] *** Quits: Dojka (~Dojka@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Dojka)
3241 [20:10:49] <annadane> i didn't know about that
3242 [20:11:02] <blackslide> that's what I thought, but
thought you know better
3243 [20:11:02] <blackslide> :D
3244 [20:11:08] *** password2 is now known as password4
3245 [20:11:11] <annadane> dpkg -l intel-microcode
3246 [20:11:11] <dpkg> ii intel-microcode 1.9-14.2 ultra s3kr1t
#debian package
3247 [20:11:26] <annadane> well, i _usually_ do but i'm
clearly prone to fits of idiocy
3248 [20:11:28] *** Joins: dert (~Mutter@replaced-ip )
3249 [20:11:35] <blackslide> :)
3250 [20:11:38] *** Quits: numbdewd (~numbdewd@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3251 [20:11:57] <blackslide> no packages found..
3252 [20:12:00] *** Quits: dert (~Mutter@replaced-ip ) (Client Quit)
3253 [20:12:01] <blackslide> :D
3254 [20:12:03] *** Quits: crtcji (~crtcji@replaced-ip ) (Client Quit)
3255 [20:12:06] <annadane> i use apt changelog so often for
everything anyway it completely slipped my mind that that
wasn't the right answer
3256 [20:12:24] <annadane> well, you'll need non-free and
contrib in your sources list to install it
3257 [20:12:45] <blackslide> Yes, Ive got those,
3258 [20:12:53] *** Joins: azur_kind (~azur_kind@replaced-ip )
3259 [20:12:55] <annadane> (maybe just non-free but i always just
recommend both)
3260 [20:12:56] <blackslide> allready installed it :D
3261 [20:13:12] *** Joins: crtcji (~crtcji@replaced-ip )
3262 [20:13:34] <blackslide> I'll boot and after the smoke
and flames, get a new laptop :P
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3265 [20:13:48] <annadane> right, microcode is only loaded on boot
3266 [20:13:53] *** Joins: crtcji (~crtcji@replaced-ip )
3267 [20:14:02] <jhutchins> You should always enable contrib if
you enable non-free.
3268 [20:14:03] <annadane> microcode and kernel updates and
dbus.service updates
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3270 [20:14:10] <annadane> for everything else, there's
mastercard
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3273 [20:14:41] <annadane> well, dbus.service restarts, i meant
3274 [20:14:56] *** Quits: crtcji (~crtcji@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3275 [20:15:02] <annadane> (oh and firmware)
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3281 [20:17:03] <blackslide> Well, nothing blew up, so it
can't be that fatal :D
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3283 [20:17:12] <annadane> when you're on stable, this is
largely irrelevant. for sid, on the other hand...
3284 [20:17:12] *** Quits: crtcji (~crtcji@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3285 [20:17:35] <annadane> bloody reboots every 3 days. :P
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3291 [20:19:35] <jhutchins> ,v rdiff-backup
3292 [20:19:36] <judd> Package: rdiff-backup on amd64 -- buster:
1.2.8-7; jessie: 1.2.8-7; sid: 1.2.8-7; stretch: 1.2.8-7; wheezy:
1.2.8-7
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3299 [20:22:15] <jhutchins> Interesting, the intel-microcode in
jessie-backports is actually older than the one in main.
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3301 [20:22:47] <blackslide> well, I can't see a performance
difference in sysbench before/after the kernel patch
3302 [20:23:15] <blackslide> if something, then the microcode
patch made it a smell faster.
3303 [20:23:51] <annadane> blackslide, i also think the
performance hit has been a little overblown
3304 [20:23:57] <blackslide> Any advertisements of "15-30%
slower" seems to be quite off, at least my case.
3305 [20:24:00] <annadane> it depends on what you use your system
for, number of syscalls and so on
3306 [20:24:33] <NetTerminalGene> jhutchins, it indicates dates
3.20170707
3307 [20:24:41] <NetTerminalGene> 2017.07.07
3308 [20:25:20] <blackslide> I'll have to see what it amounts
up to when I start trying to use daw stuff on this underpowered cpu
3309 [20:25:23] <blackslide> :D
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3315 [20:27:45] <jhutchins> NetTerminalGene:
jessie-backports/non-free: 3.20170511.1~bpo8+1; < May 11.
3316 [20:28:04] *** Quits: inaki (~inaki@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
3317 [20:28:17] <blackslide> hmm, any idea why uname -p and -i
show "unknown"
3318 [20:28:48] <jhutchins> NetTerminalGene: Sloppy has 11 17
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3320 [20:29:45] <annadane> i get the same
3321 [20:30:15] <coruja> ,v intel-microcode
3322 [20:30:16] <judd> Package: intel-microcode on amd64 --
wheezy/non-free: 1.20150121.1; wheezy-backports/non-free:
3.20161104.1~deb8u1~bpo7+1; jessie-backports/non-free:
3.20170511.1~bpo8+1; jessie/non-free: 3.20170707.1~deb8u1;
stretch/non-free: 3.20170707.1~deb9u1;
jessie-backports-sloppy/non-free: 3.20171117.1~bpo8+1;
stretch-backports/non-free: 3.20171117.1~bpo9+1; buster/non-free:
3.20171117.1; sid
3323 [20:30:17] <judd> /non-free: 3.20171215.1
3324 [20:30:32] <annadane> you guys are terrible with bot spamming
the channel :P
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3326 [20:30:35] <mutante> blackslide: if you were looking for an
alternative to get CPU type: cat /proc/cpuinfo
3327 [20:30:39] *** Joins: inaki (~inaki@replaced-ip )
3328 [20:30:41] <blackslide> nah
3329 [20:30:44] <jhutchins> blackslide: Info wasn't set at
compile time. Note that the man page expects them to be empty and
not show in -a
3330 [20:30:51] <annadane> ah
3331 [20:30:58] <blackslide> lscpu and cat /proc/cpuinfo works
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3333 [20:31:02] <blackslide> ok
3334 [20:31:17] <annadane> see also
"HowToIdentifyADevice" on the debian wiki
3335 [20:31:18] <blackslide> that clears it up :D
3336 [20:31:47] <blackslide> actually I'll have to add some
translation on uname --help :D
3337 [20:31:55] <blackslide> it's quite partial in finnish
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3340 [20:33:26] <NetTerminalGene> i looked at these
jessie/non-free: 3.20170707.1~deb8u1, jessie-backports/non-free:
3.20170511.1~bpo8+1
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3342 [20:33:32] <NetTerminalGene> i don't know what slopy is
3343 [20:34:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1700
3344 [20:34:49] <NetTerminalGene> xD ok nevermind
3345 [20:34:57] *** Quits: oish (~charlie@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3346 [20:34:59] <annadane> sloppy means 2 releases ahead
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3348 [20:35:08] *** Quits: nix64bit (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip ) (Quit: nix64bit)
3349 [20:35:13] <annadane> wait
3350 [20:35:45] *** Quits: inaki (~inaki@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
3351 [20:36:12] <annadane> right; see
replaced-url
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3369 [20:46:06] <blackslide> hmm, any good place to chat about
translating deb/*nix packages?
3370 [20:46:42] <blackslide> I might be able to contribute in some
languges... how ever insignificant work that might be..
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3372 [20:47:15] <user2323> Hi, I'm planning to install Debian
and I'm going by a guide that seems to be out of date. This
guide urges the individual to verify the installer in multiple ways,
but the SHA256SUMS is asks one to download no longer seems to be
offered on the Debian website. Here is a sample of some of the
instructions I have to give you an example of where I'm coming
from:
replaced-url
3373 [20:47:34] <annadane> blackslide, maybe check out
replaced-url
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3377 [20:47:57] <annadane> not sure what the official webpage is
for matters like those
3378 [20:48:23] <annadane> i'd love for someone else to
answer that actually, who knows more
3379 [20:49:09] <blackslide> hmm, I'm scouring through those
allready, I was thinking of maybe an irc #chan to chat on stuff :D
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3382 [20:49:34] <annadane> user2323, if you look at
replaced-url
3383 [20:49:36] <blackslide> I haven't found anything but
those dreaded 70's style bbs/news threads :D
3384 [20:50:26] <blackslide> Although I have to admint, they seem
to be quite good for group projects..
3385 [20:51:13] <user2323> THAT'S what I was looking for, but
for some reason I wasn't able to find it. That page
doesn't seem to be available on the Debian download page, but
maybe I stupidly missed it.
3386 [20:51:46] <annadane> user2323, yeah, clicking the image
takes you directly to a download, but if you go up a directory
you'll be able to find all those things
3387 [20:51:51] <annadane> it's perhaps a little badly
designed
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3391 [20:53:58] <annadane> i've long been dissatisfied with
debian's explanation of how to verify images anyway
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3394 [20:54:18] <annadane> as with anything you can probably find
it in the arch wiki
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3401 [20:58:03] <user2323> And when verifying using Windows CMD,
do the checksum files need to be in the same folder as GPG4Win?
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3407 [20:59:23] <annadane> user2323, i *believe* the image, the
checksum, and the signature all need to be in the same directory
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3417 [21:01:24] <user2323> all the pertinent files, I should have
said that. Thanks.
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3468 [21:26:30] <uwe> I upgraded from stretch to buster (testing)
and now my screen resolution in MATE is gone. Before in stretch in
can running 1920x1080, now after upgrade the max I can configure in
MATE ist 1280x800. Intel HD Graphics 620.
replaced-url
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3471 [21:27:20] <uwe> I tried with and without the
xserver-xorg-video-intel, but no diffrence.
3472 [21:27:39] <annadane> !debian-next
3473 [21:27:40] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for
testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not*
on Freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is
invite only)." it means you did not read it's on
irc.oftc.net.
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3475 [21:27:41] <annadane> uwe, ^
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3477 [21:28:25] <uwe> ok, thanks
3478 [21:28:26] <annadane> that being said though did you try
using xrandr to set it manually
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3481 [21:29:26] <uwe> xrandr only show me the same resolution als
the MATE config. not greater than 1280x800
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3489 [21:37:27] <blackslide> I've also had gfx resolution
issues when upgrading from stable to testing... but that was looong
time ago
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3491 [21:38:15] <blackslide> unfortunately I can't remember
what I did to fix it, and think it's probably outdated info
anyhow, since it happened a few years ago..
3492 [21:38:28] <maxzor_> Hi what do you recommend to create an
iso file of your system,
3493 [21:39:46] <somiaj> maxzor_: be more detailed? What does an
iso file of your system do?
3494 [21:40:17] <blackslide> ok, I'm bailing out. Thanks for
all the help, bye!
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3496 [21:41:02] <maxzor_> somiaj: I have rsynced my whole system
to a backup drive. I wonder how I can create an iso and make it to a
liveusb
3497 [21:41:45] <somiaj> there really is not tool that does just
that. You could look into the debian live-build system, but this
requires more than just having a backup of your system.
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3499 [21:42:08] <somiaj> but I do not know of any tool you can
just use to make a live image of your current system.
3500 [21:42:30] <maxzor_> ahh, ok I thought it was straightforward
3501 [21:42:39] <maxzor_> ty
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3508 [21:45:22] <somiaj> maxzor_: a live system doesn't
root/run like a normal system (since it tries to run everything from
memeory due to usb and cdroms having slow read/write speeds)
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3510 [21:46:00] <somiaj> maxzor_: you could do a copy of your
whole systems file system to a usb drive, install grub on the usb
drive and on many systems just boot from the usb drive, but using a
usb drive as the main drive is very slow compared to using an actual
drive (espically if using usb2)
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3512 [21:47:26] <maxzor_> so having a bootable classic system on
usb or a live system are two different things
3513 [21:47:49] <somiaj> correct, booting from usb would be
different than a live system
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3532 [21:59:31] <kinkmaster> hello!
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3534 [22:00:19] <kinkmaster> I have an arm64 VPS and need to build
a kernel module on 4.9.23, however the current kernel modules are
4.9.0 and it won't build
3535 [22:00:24] <user2323> Hi, I'm going to install Debian
and I'm following a guide that might be out of date. Regarding
the verification process, one of the codes this guide presents the
reader with is this: (x-hkp://pool.sks-keyservers.net)
DF9B9C49EAA9298432589D76DA87E80D6294BE9B I cannot find anything that
looks like this on the Debian website, so if this code is out of
date, I won't be able to complete that step. It's also
confusing that none of the codes I'
3536 [22:00:25] <user2323> on various Debian ebpages resembles
this.
3537 [22:00:39] *** Joins: ragedragon (~ragedrago@replaced-ip )
3538 [22:00:52] <kinkmaster> *the current kernel header files are
4.9.0
3539 [22:01:15] <somiaj> kinkmaster: the current header files are
most likelikly 4.9.something, and they should match your currently
running kernel.
3540 [22:01:25] <annadane> user2323, the current sums are on
replaced-url
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3543 [22:01:38] <somiaj> kinkmaster: 4.9.23 also seems like an
older kernel, can you give the exact version of your linux-image and
linux-headers packages installed
3544 [22:01:38] <annadane> well, fingerprints i mean
3545 [22:03:04] <user2323> I see. I did see those codes, but the
reason I was confused is because the corresponding code on that page
is spaced, therefore I didn't recognize it.
3546 [22:04:14] <user2323> I also dismissed that page because the
latest dated code on it is from 2014.
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3552 [22:08:24] <user2323> Just out of curiosity, there are 8
fingerprint type files at the bottom of this page (replaced-url
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3554 [22:09:16] <JPT> user2323: Let me guess: You're asked to
get one type of fingerprint + a signature file for it.
3555 [22:09:28] <annadane> just different levels of assurance
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3557 [22:09:41] <annadane> if you have a high threat model SHA512
is harder to spoof
3558 [22:10:06] <annadane> you just need the iso, the sums file
and the corresponding signature
3559 [22:10:07] *** Quits: inaki (~inaki@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
3560 [22:10:17] <kinkmaster> somiaj: as far as I can tell I have
linux-headers-4.9.0-5-arm64 installed
3561 [22:10:31] <annadane> i don't even remember what i used
for mine
3562 [22:10:32] <JPT> It's basically different types of
hashes (think checksums, but more reliable). You compare the given
checksum with the one you calculated. This is how you verify
integrity of the downloaded image.
3563 [22:10:48] *** Quits: poeticrpm (~poeticrpm@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
3564 [22:11:05] <JPT> If you care about authenticity of that image
(it's the official one and not a doctored one), proceed with
verifying the signature of the checksum
3565 [22:11:18] <kinkmaster> there's a 4.14.0-3 in the cache,
but it needs gcc 7 which I can't install
3566 [22:11:22] <somiaj> kinkmaster: the 4.9.0 is just a
placekeper in the package name, get the actual version of that
package.
3567 [22:11:23] <sandstorm> How can I install gcc-arm-none-eabi
version 5.3.1 on stretch ?
3568 [22:12:09] <somiaj> kinkmaster: note the 4.9.0-5 recent
security upgrade is version 4.9.65, and the headers for 4.9.65
won't work for compining a module for 4.9.23 as asked.
3569 [22:12:19] <somiaj> kinkmaster: what is the output of uname
-a?
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3572 [22:13:07] <kinkmaster> 4.9.23-std-1
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3574 [22:14:04] <somiaj> kinkmaster: that isn't a debian
kernel. You are running some share kernel on the vps host, and not
the kernel provided by debian. What module are you trying to
compile?
3575 [22:14:18] <kinkmaster> trying to install wireguard
3576 [22:14:20] <somiaj> kinkmaster: since it appears to be some
shared kernel, you may have to contact the VPS to get modules
compiled against it and installed.
3577 [22:14:28] <kinkmaster> ah dang
3578 [22:14:34] *** Quits: NoCode (~NoCode@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
3579 [22:14:46] <kinkmaster> they're occupied patching their
x86 infrastructure, dunno if they are going to fill a ticket on
saturday night
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3582 [22:15:22] <Pegasus_RPG> Hello. Ever since I upgraded my
laptop to Debian 9/Stretch, my system has been very low on available
entropy. What changed?
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3587 [22:16:42] <sandstorm> How can I install a previous version
of a package where it is not being listed in apt on stretch?
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3595 [22:18:17] <somiaj> sandstorm: sounds like an xy problem. Why
do you need to install a previous version of a package and what
version (was it one in a previous stretch point release, one from
jessie, one from some random version when stretch was testing)?
3596 [22:18:40] <sandstorm> somiaj: gcc-arm-none-eabi version
5.3.1 on stretch ?
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3598 [22:18:51] <annadane> ,v gcc-arm-none-eabi
3599 [22:18:52] <judd> Package: gcc-arm-none-eabi on amd64 --
jessie: 4.8.4-1+11-1; jessie-backports: 4.9.2-10+14~bpo8+1; stretch:
15:5.4.1+svn241155-1; buster: 15:6.3.1+svn253039-1; sid:
15:6.3.1+svn253039-1
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3601 [22:19:02] <sandstorm> somiaj: Because the codebase I am
trying to build requires 5.3.1
3602 [22:19:31] <annadane> so that's older than what stretch
has; i suspect whatever you're trying to build (just a theory)
has listed "needs 5.3.1" when what they really mean is
"needs at least 5.3.1"
3603 [22:19:37] <somiaj> sandstorm: so some random version while
stretch was testing.
3604 [22:19:38] <annadane> i may be wrong
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3607 [22:20:05] <somiaj> sandstorm: anyways, you may have to
install lots more than that single package to get gcc down to that
version.
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3609 [22:20:21] <sandstorm> annadane: The codebase fails with
5.4.1 during make, that's why I need to downgrade I suppose.
3610 [22:20:32] <sandstorm> somiaj: But how :)
3611 [22:20:35] <somiaj> sandstorm: my suggestion is first do not
install the required packages on your stretch system, as this could
cause problems.
3612 [22:20:58] <somiaj> sandstorm: second, if you really need to
build something with an older build enviorment, create a stretch
chroot and maybe get the older packages from snapshot.debian.org
3613 [22:21:09] *** Joins: pikaro (~pikaro@replaced-ip )
3614 [22:21:18] <somiaj> provided stretch ever had the exact
version in the first place
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3616 [22:21:37] <somiaj> you could also try to figure out why it
fails with gcc 5.4.1 and fix it and/or file a bug against the
creaters of the source.
3617 [22:22:23] <sandstorm> somiaj: Ah hmm
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3622 [22:23:04] <pikaro> hi! I used to use sgfxi to install nvidia
driver until now, but it appears it screwed up bad this time around.
experimental has the same version available as sgfxi does, so
I'd like to try the packaged ones instead. how would I go about
doing that? is installing the packaged drivers through apt enough or
do I have to do some kind of cleanup of the sgfxi-installed drivers?
3623 [22:23:21] <sandstorm> somiaj: here is a little peek to the
problem: paste.debian.net/1003801/
3624 [22:23:35] <somiaj> pikaro: if running debian stable, do not
install packages from experimeintal.
3625 [22:23:37] <user2323> Thanks, guys.
3626 [22:23:40] <pikaro> sgfxi doesn't appear to provide a
straight "uninstall" option, it can only replace the
proprietary drivers with nouveau
3627 [22:23:55] <somiaj> pikaro: what nvidia card do you have? You
most likely do not need the newest nvidia driver version and debian
only supports using the version they provide with stable.
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3629 [22:24:06] <pikaro> somiaj, crap, I thought I joined the sid
channel?
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3631 [22:24:20] <pikaro> sorry
3632 [22:24:33] <pikaro> and I have a GTX 750 TI
3633 [22:24:48] <annadane> !debian-next
3634 [22:24:48] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for
testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not*
on Freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is
invite only)." it means you did not read it's on
irc.oftc.net.
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3636 [22:24:59] <somiaj> oh you are on sid. Well you can just add
experiemntial to your sources.list and try it out. Though the fact
you have been installing nvidia drivers not using debian's
packages (one of the thigns suggested not to do in debian) you may
have other issues to work out with
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3640 [22:25:19] <pikaro> ... oops that's on another server
and apparently the two are aliased on freenode.
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3642 [22:25:33] <somiaj> pikaro: I am a bit out of the loop these
days, but I doubt there is much reason to need the newest nvidia
driver for that card, I would just use the one provided with the
debian version youa re using, sid in this case.
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3644 [22:26:50] <pikaro> somiaj, thanks! I'll ask on
#debian-next if there's anything to be careful about
3645 [22:27:01] <somiaj> pikaro:
replaced-url
3646 [22:27:16] <pikaro> had to use sgfxi because there was some
bad bug in the debian-shipped ones once, not sure what it was any
more
3647 [22:27:38] <somiaj> pikaro: there is nothing extra to be
careful about when using experimential packages on sid than you
should already be careful about on sid, with the exception
'these packages are deemed to unstable for sid'
3648 [22:27:49] <user2323> so in order to verify the checksum
files and the image on Windows using GPG4Win, do I have to move them
into the GPG4Win folder? Or move the relevant GPG4Win EXE into the
folder containing the various files?
3649 [22:28:09] <somiaj> debian sid is a moving target and the
nvidia drivers dont' always keep up with the changes in xorg
and the kernel, thus they are just a pain to use in sid at times.
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3653 [22:28:42] <pikaro> I'm aware of that :P but I can
always downgrade if need be, even experimental packages 99%
won't fry the card
3654 [22:28:44] <annadane> s/at times/all the time
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3656 [22:29:11] <annadane> (actually, they've been ok-ish)
3657 [22:29:18] <annadane> they suck but it's not a sid
problem
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3667 [22:31:30] <somiaj> annadane: one note is since #debian-next
is on another irc network, I woudln't consider sid questions
completely off base here, usually point people there for better
support and/or more drawn out issues.
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3671 [22:32:04] <annadane> right. sorry.
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3674 [22:32:56] <somiaj> no problem, just wanted to point out that
sid questions need not nesicarally be completely off topic here
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3678 [22:34:01] <pikaro> would probably be a better idea to make
#debian-next here a channel that tells you it's actually on
another server rather than it just being an alias for #debian
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3683 [22:34:56] <somiaj> pikaro: irc.oftc.net is debian's
offical irc network, so all debian channels except this general
#debian on freenode are on that network.
3684 [22:35:03] *** Quits: Jacob843 (~Jacob843@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
3685 [22:35:18] <somiaj> pikaro: most the channels are small,
splitting their users across two networks would nto be wise.
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3688 [22:36:24] <pikaro> somiaj, didn't mean an active
channel, I assume you can make them "read-only" (like
muting every non-op or something)
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3692 [22:37:59] <somiaj> pikaro: I think keeping people from
joining the channels is the better approach, though maybe a message
better than 'you must be invited' would be appropriate.
Could be there is just no way to do that on freenodes irc setup.
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3697 [22:39:16] <pikaro> I'll leave that to the
professionals. for now, I have to shut down X to reinstall the
driver. thanks for the support!
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3743 [22:53:44] <Divergenz__> howto unzip 2 zip files together?
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3753 [22:57:48] <well_laid_lawn> into the same diectory?
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3758 [23:00:37] <user2323> When I try to verify SHA256SUMS.sign
(available here:
replaced-url
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3762 [23:02:48] <Divergenz__> well_laid_lawn, yes. i have
multipart .zip files. zip.a and zip.b and i know howto unzip a
single file but zip.a need zip.b otherwise it's broken.
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3765 [23:04:24] <well_laid_lawn> try unzip {zip.b,zip.a}
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3768 [23:05:07] <tijeretas__> Divergenz__: usually you have
something like: bla.zip bla.001 bla.002 bla.003... etc. and then you
unzip the .zip file. If you don't have that, just use the first
one and it will automatically unzip all of them if they are in the
same directory and have no damage.
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3772 [23:07:20] <awal1> or "cat myfile.zip* >
my-file.zip"
3773 [23:08:22] <awal1> then "unzip my-file.zip"
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3777 [23:09:47] <awal1> well, cding to where you zip files are for
cat
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3783 [23:14:16] <Divergenz__> hm
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3785 [23:15:38] <Divergenz__> i unzip the zwo files and i have a
.rar file now but it's broken.
3786 [23:16:14] <tijeretas__> Divergenz__: sounds like some
illegal stuff :)
3787 [23:18:03] <awal1> "cd Myzipfiles" + "cat
myfile.zip* > ~/Myzipfiles/my-file.zip" + "unzip
my-file.zip" donesn't solve your question?
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3789 [23:18:12] <awal1> Divergenz__
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3796 [23:19:43] <tijeretas__> Divergenz__: BTW, if you're
using the open source unrar instead of the proprietary one... this
one can't unpack the newer rar formats, so try the package
unrar from non-free instead before you write the file off as broken
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3799 [23:20:58] <Divergenz__> ok
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3801 [23:23:40] <Pichet__> you could also try with 7zip (package
p7zip-full) "7z x myfile.zip"
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3803 [23:24:39] <awal1> unrar-free vs unrar pkgs
3804 [23:24:51] *** Joins: picknick (~picknick@replaced-ip )
3805 [23:24:59] <awal1> that is what you meant tijiretas__ ?
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3833 [23:34:01] <Divergenz__> works! 7z x a.zip and 7 x b.zip and
then unrar e c.rar
3834 [23:34:31] *** Quits: Rasiel (~Rasiel@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3835 [23:34:42] <tijeretas__> awal1: exactly
3836 [23:34:44] *** Quits: Zorroness (~Zorroness@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3837 [23:34:47] <tijeretas__> Divergenz__: great
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3845 [23:36:02] <Divergenz__> but isn't it possible that 7z
find all zip files? i mean two files are ok but what about 100?
thats takes much time to unzip the files.
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3848 [23:36:52] <user2323> I'm in the process of verifying my
Debian installer image, which is something that my Debian guide
urges one to do. Can anyone expalin to me why only the first two
steps seen here (replaced-url
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3851 [23:37:36] <awal1> tijiretas__, i already knew that, it was
for clarify things for Divergenz__ :P
3852 [23:37:59] <Pichet__> if the file follow a pattern like
"file.zip file.zip.001 file.zip.002 ..." i think 7z will
simply unzip everything
3853 [23:38:17] <tijeretas__> awal1: I was responding to your
question.
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3856 [23:38:33] <awal1> yep
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3859 [23:38:38] <user2323> It will, Pichet__. I have experience
with archive extractors.
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3861 [23:39:23] <tijeretas__> Pichet__ is right. BTW, a tip: I use
the package unp which automatically picks the right packager based
on file extension and does everything automarically.
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3866 [23:41:06] <Divergenz__> abc1a.zip and abc1b.zip
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3870 [23:41:30] <Divergenz__> is the pattern
3871 [23:41:32] <dvs> user2323, I'm guessing that the key
fingerprint in the instructions is out of date. I'd just
download the SHA256SUM file from the same place you downloaded the
.iso image from and verify that the checksum is the same.
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3874 [23:44:13] <user2323> That might be it, dvs. The lastest key
listed on debian.org is actually dated 2014, and I'll try using
that code now.
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3886 [23:48:17] <Divergenz> well, thank you tijeretas__, awal1 and
Pichet__ ,-)
3887 [23:48:38] <Divergenz> tijeretas__: maybe :P
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3898 [23:57:10] <user2323> No, changing the key fingerprint does
not work. This is the result I get when doing the third step:
replaced-url
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3901 [23:59:05] <user2323> OK, I just got it to work.
3902 [23:59:10] <dvs> user2323, I think the last two parameters
are backwards? Not sure.
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