9[00:06:13] <somiaj> busternube: at some level this is up to
you as the admin to decide where to mount your filesystems. If it
was me, I would use /etc/fstab and control the point these things
are mounted.
10[00:06:59] <somiaj> automounters will often pick their own
place to mount things, either works, so the choice is up to you
(though I think I missed the whole kvm layer, are these mounts from
a virtual machine?)
11[00:07:24] *** Quits: akp55 (~akp55@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
14[00:08:33] <ryouma> jhutchins: i hated apple. i kept trying
to make it work like debian. it is actually debian's attempts
to get facny and hide the guts in the initramfs that caused some of
the complexity that broke stuff. all i want is for debian to have
better error messages and better accessibility and better "you
are in the initramfs/grub/whategvver. here are a rfew things you can
try" type instructions at the lowest level. i
15[00:08:33] <ryouma> am not asking for grep to do this. jst
the lowest level stuff where y7oure computer is broken and you do
not hafve your debian tools that you use everyday to fix things or
find out things so it needs to give you hints there. i have no
intention of going to apple. or mint/ubuntu for that matter.
17[00:11:42] <ryouma> i think "debian's complex. you
should go to apple if you don't like it" is not really
what you are saying but a lot of folk say that, unlike you, instead
of saying "oh right you could add a little hint there or reduce
the complexity there or so". it's sort of a status quo
bias or a "i learned this unneeded complexity in addition to
the needed complexity so you will too as a rite of passage"
kind of thing. i know
18[00:11:42] <ryouma> you are not doing this, but i wonder if
some of it can be improved.
19[00:13:27] *** Quits: igrtrrt (~igrtrrt@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
20[00:14:38] <ryouma> (there is unneded complexity at the shell
prompt level also, but one is better equipped to investigatge and
fix)
21[00:14:46] <ryouma> (and ask qs)
22[00:15:08] <ryouma> (i refer to e.g. 2 different mechanisms
for configuing packges and so o n)
23[00:16:02] <ryouma> (i'm ok with leaving htat cruft as
it is because you are at least not sitting watching a blinking
cursor or a prompt you onoly use every few years)
24[00:16:16] *** wigums is now known as gidd|es
25[00:16:25] <busternube> i cant see the drive in
/dev/disk/by-label
26[00:16:49] <busternube> the only folder its not shown in
27[00:17:17] <busternube> needs to be labled?
28[00:18:11] <ryouma> i had an issue once where one of those
was not populated but others were
31[00:22:12] <somiaj> ryouma: What are you doing that breaks
your boot so often? Debian stable gets few upgrades, and i
haven't had them break my boot in the last few releases.
32[00:22:31] <ryouma> it can only takes one to knock you out
for a long time
33[00:22:47] <ryouma> and only one is enough to make you wnt to
never have that general problem again
34[00:22:54] <somiaj> Yes, initramfs is another layer, but this
layer helps debian be able to provide a slim kernel with modules
that can boot on tons of hardware, if you really don't want
initramfs, you'll have to build your own kernel images and
include all drivers inside the kernel.
36[00:23:21] <ryouma> i didn't say i did not want the
initramfs layer. i said that the complexity of it caused bugs in it.
37[00:23:34] <somiaj> That is what the install/live rescue
images are for, just keep one of those around. As for having
instructions on what to do, that is a bit vague because there are
lots of things that can cause a system to not boot, so no one set of
instructions will fix every possbilitiy.
38[00:23:36] <ryouma> i will be neutral on whether there shold
be an initramfs
40[00:24:05] <somiaj> But as said, if you want to add that to
the initramfs, this is not something most people thik they need, so
you'll have to add it yourself, as you are the first person
I've seen request such a feature.
42[00:24:42] *** Quits: Deyaa (uid190709@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
43[00:24:46] <ryouma> one problem is, if you need very large
fonts and certain color and intensity requirements and various other
needs, those recue things are in practice hostile to you. others
don't notice this.
45[00:25:47] <ryouma> the boot sequence varies btween unfixable
unreadably tiny fonts and various sizes of fonts for example. most
people don't cahnge those so they don't notice that there
are places where they cannot be fixed (or not obvious)(
46[00:26:03] <somiaj> I will give you that, there are
improvements on accessiblity the installer could have, but each
relase gets better.
47[00:26:59] *** Quits: LucaTM (~LucaTM@replaced-ip) (Quit: To infinity and beyond...)
48[00:28:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1026
49[00:28:37] *** Quits: Tobbi (~Tobbi@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
67[00:54:56] <NikopolSohru> Since when is Linux not
'friendly' jhutchins?
68[00:55:22] <somiaj> though here I think it is more we need to
make debian more accessible, though I think the way in which ryouma
wants to go about it is not correct.
69[00:55:52] <somiaj> The debian install media and resuce
console could use a bit more accessible features, but these are
there and constantally getting better.
70[00:57:44] <NikopolSohru> There are all kinds of flavors of
Linux, all with their own aims..
74[01:03:26] *** Quits: D4rk2020 (~darkangel@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
75[01:04:47] <ryouma> you seem to think i have said so as part
of your campaign. please check your sources (the scrollback) and
tell me where i fall into the category you are resistant to ---
15:53 <jhutchins> ryouma: I'm very resistant to a rather
persistent meme of "We should dumb down linux to make it more
friendly".
81[01:11:06] <ryouma> i was not asking for a little icon of a
bomb saying your macintosh is broken
82[01:11:24] <qrpnxz> hmm, i can't think of any debian
usability problems atm. Could you share some?
83[01:12:01] <ryouma> what do you mean by usability?
84[01:12:26] <qrpnxz> i'm reading here that Debian is
somehow not friendly.
85[01:12:56] <ryouma> the word friendly seems to be a loaded
one so i will retract it so as not to set anybody off on a tirade
86[01:13:06] <ryouma> i am going to give up here as i
don't think i am doing any good nor are the responses meeting
my needs. i began by asking if i could put my notes into low level.
87[01:14:36] <ryouma> just print some text i supply, so that i
have a reminder
243[03:45:28] <Bert_2> Hi, I'm having trouble with a
migration from mysql to mariadb, for some reason apparmor keeps from
time to time throwing a tantrum about run/systemd/notify. Now the
apparmor usr.sbin.mysqld is empty as supplied by mariadb, on top of
that I've disabled it, reloaded and restarted apparmor a
million times, and still it refuses to cooperate, the process
remains listed in enforcement mode in aa_status. Does anyo
244[03:45:34] <Bert_2> ne have any idea what I can do to fix
this?
245[03:45:43] *** Quits: Z4CHe (uid496478@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
357[07:59:53] *** Quits: quackgyver (uid11872@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
358[08:00:50] <nicoz> the other day i updated and now apt
reports me this error
359[08:00:53] <somiaj> security should be bullseye/updates
360[08:02:45] <nicoz> but the beauty is that I have not touched
the source.list file, is it possible that it is modified by itself?
361[08:02:56] <somiaj> nope
362[08:03:13] <somiaj> Unsure why you have that typo there, but
it is an issue
363[08:03:20] <somiaj> !bullseye sources.list
364[08:03:20] <dpkg> A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for
"Bullseye" has three lines: "deb
replaced-url
365[08:03:52] <somiaj> Oh wait, my bad....according that factoid
you are correct. Lets see your error
366[08:04:03] <somiaj> (I didn't realize security had
changed, it use to be /)
367[08:04:10] <somiaj> !buster sources.list
368[08:04:10] <dpkg> A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for
"Buster" has the lines: "deb
replaced-url
369[08:04:26] <jmcnaught> nicoz: on lines 8 and 9 where you have
"bullseye-updates" it should be
"bullseye-security"
370[08:04:51] <somiaj> oh that is the change, I'm blind,
thanks jmcnaught, I hadn't realized that change.
371[08:05:34] <somiaj> good to know, going to mean the upgrade
to bullseye is going to be slighty more complicated because of that
(at least for us old timmers who didn't notice it changed)
372[08:06:24] <nicoz> ah ok, it's a only error of name?
373[08:06:55] <somiaj> nicoz: yea, your sources.list didn't
use the correct name for the secuirty sources, which will cause an
error.
391[08:25:25] <wyoung> Nichi: Either, I use apt-get out of
habbit
392[08:25:59] <Nichi> they are different programs inside, right?
393[08:26:45] <somiaj> !apt
394[08:26:45] <dpkg> Advanced Packaging Tool (APT) is a package
management system used by Debian and its derivatives. APT is a C++
library of functions that are used by several command line programs
for dealing with packages, notably apt-get, apt-cache, and aptitude
and, from Debian 8 "Jessie" onwards, apt. See also
<aptitude> <apt-get>, <apt-cache>, <apt
myths>.
397[08:27:20] <somiaj> Nichi: apt-get got to a point that it
could not be changed (was used in to many scripts), so apt was
created for more an evolving user interface. In general apt should
be used by the user and apt-get by scripts
398[08:27:24] <somiaj> though you can use either
399[08:28:18] <somiaj> basically apt provides nicer color
output, progress bars, and various additions that could not be added
to apt-get without breaking numerous things. Also apt combines
apt-get and apt-cache into a single binary.
400[08:28:51] <somiaj> though yes, I too still use apt-get out
of habbit, though am very slowly getting more use to just using apt
when running things from a termail.
402[08:30:52] <TheBigK> i switched to apt ... just because of
the mentioned advantages ... but i still use dist-upgrade instead of
--list upgradable ... its weird to type for me ;D
403[08:32:02] <somiaj> thouse do different things, do you mean
dist-upgrade vs full-upgrade?
404[08:32:14] *** Quits: kristijonas (~kristijon@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
406[08:33:33] <Nichi> dist-upgrade was exactly what got me
confused, because it wasnt mentioned at all in the man page for apt,
onyl in the apt-get man page, although "apt dist-upgrade"
works
407[08:33:40] <somiaj> TheBigK: note one difference between apt
and apt-get is upgrade, apt-get upgrade won't install new
packages, but apt upgrade will, so for stable upgrades, apt upgrade
should be sufficent (Even for new kernels) and dist-upgrade is no
longer needed outside of release changes.
408[08:34:00] *** Quits: kristijonas (~kristijon@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
423[08:42:33] *** Quits: Christian75 (~Christian@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
424[08:44:34] <shtrb> Nichi, does that mean you have the odd
clients that can ruin your day all of a sudden by throwing a tantrum
at you or others who just failing to give their output ?
466[09:34:21] <furycd001> HI Guys.. Over the weekend I've
installed & been setting up debian-10 with xfce on a thinkpad
E470. I've just installed nvidia drivers & been trying to
get rid of screen tearing. Whenever I try to luanch nvidia-settings
I receive the following error >> ERROR: Unable to load info
from any available system
467[09:34:26] <furycd001> Could someone please help me
thanks....
522[10:20:51] <effgee> So, strange issue, can't get ip
forwarding to stay off. The default is supposed to be off but
everytime I reboot its on. I even specifically set it to 0 on
/etc/sysctl.conf and it still turns back on every reboot. Nothing in
my interfaces is turning it on either. Where else should I look?
557[11:15:06] <willow> i'm having issues with bluetooth on
buster. i want to add sid source to try its version
558[11:15:29] <ksk> !frankendebian
559[11:15:29] <dpkg> When you get random packages from random
repositories, mix multiple releases of Debian, or mix Debian and
derived distributions, you have a mess. There's no way anyone
can support this "distribution of Frankenstein" and
#debian certainly doesn't want to even try. Ask me about
<reinstall>
560[11:15:32] <TheBigK> willow: thats a terrible idea
568[11:18:04] <willow> it seems to be a bug with bluez that has
been fixed in more recent release. it doesn't recognize the
a2dp audio sink profile of device on reconnect.
replaced-url
569[11:18:24] *** Quits: ecsim (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
571[11:19:51] <willow> one time i had the a2dp sink working on
the headphones. then every time after that it cannot be used.
i've restarted pulseaudio, restarted bluetooth, removed and
re-paired the device multiple times.
615[12:01:11] <willow> for docker do you build your own or just
use pre-made servers? i need postfix/dovecot/mysql and nginx
616[12:01:37] <AquaL1te> interesing stuff about hardening
services with systemd:
replaced-url
617[12:02:00] <TheBigK> depends on which special cases u wanna
tackle... both is certainly possible... but probably preferablle to
use prebuilt images since u dont want to invent the wheel more than
ocne
620[12:03:31] <willow> what do you use to manage/run the
instances?
621[12:03:35] <TheBigK> now i have a question... is there a way
to permanently change a systemd service user? i tried with
/etc/systemd/$service.service.d/$service.conf .. but that didnt
overwrite it
622[12:04:54] <ratrace> TheBigK: What did you specify in there?
Did you daemon-reload?
623[12:04:57] <willow> TheBigK: what tool do you use to manage
or run the docker instances?
624[12:05:17] <TheBigK> ratrace: yes i did
625[12:05:28] <ratrace> TheBigK: by the way, the dir is
/etc/systemd/system/some.service.d/....cof
626[12:05:30] <ratrace> *conf
627[12:05:34] <TheBigK> willow: it depends... usually just plain
docker-compose
628[12:05:49] <ratrace> you're missing the /system/ dir
inside the /etc/systemd/ in the path above, dunno if it's typo
here or on your system too
629[12:06:05] *** Quits: ecsim (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
644[12:11:58] <willow> shtrb: yes i see bug 848130 from 2016
645[12:12:01] <TheBigK> ratrace: ok ur the person... :D
646[12:13:15] <shtrb> willow, that a gdm pre login bug
647[12:13:23] *** Quits: ecsim (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
648[12:13:26] <TheBigK> the problem is gone now regarding
permission... it must be something about security in the kernel
regarding inotify... but even the kernel documentation didnt reveal
that problem.. and my C isnt good enough to actually read that
source code :D
653[12:15:34] <TheBigK> yes ... definitely working... that was
bothering me for so long... i still kinda hate that that service is
running as root... but i dont think theres a different solution for
that
654[12:15:50] <ratrace> what are you talking about?
655[12:16:09] <TheBigK> minidlna is running as default as a
seperate user
656[12:16:30] <TheBigK> to keep its database fresh it uses
inotify for the media dirs
672[12:20:27] <ratrace> dunno, I tried googling if inotify is
covered with a special cap or seccomp, but nothing found. can you
pastebin your service unit, mybe something else is botherig it?
675[12:21:35] <TheBigK> thats the default one... i just
overwrote now the user
676[12:22:30] <TheBigK> and the group... that was just for
testing purpose...
677[12:22:36] <TheBigK> i did change that back now
678[12:22:58] <ratrace> well, instead of altering the service,
I'd rather try put the "minidlna" user into the group
the files belong to, and make sure the dirs have g+rx
679[12:23:09] <ratrace> (and files g+r)
680[12:23:11] <TheBigK> thats the case
681[12:23:57] <TheBigK> minidlna user is in a share group
682[12:24:00] <ratrace> and if you run the command in ExecStart
manually (mind the env vars and substitution), as
"minidlna" user, does it work?
683[12:24:11] <TheBigK> and the share group is set for
everything i add in that dir
684[12:24:27] <ratrace> TheBigK: and the "share" group
has r+x access to _ALL_ path elements to the dirs?
695[12:26:40] <ratrace> so the idea is to try and run the
ExecStart command, minding the substitutions, as that user to see if
it works like that. that way you isolate the issue from systemd
service context. if it works, then the service context is putting
some restrictions you need to figure out and remove
696[12:27:11] <TheBigK> hmm...
697[12:27:42] <ratrace> I'd start by stracing systemctl
start minidlna.service . now that's gonna produce a megaton of
output, so perhapse use -o to store it into a file for later
analysis. and you'll need -f to trace the children processes
too, which is what you need here
707[12:29:12] <ratrace> I think the service should work too,
I'm not aware of any restrictions systemd would put, since
there are no namespacing and seccomp options in the service unit
708[12:29:45] <ratrace> TheBigK: then again, I'm not quite
sure how inotify works. Does it require _write_ permission if the
IN_MASK_CREATE or IN_MASK_ADD are in the monitored mask?
713[12:30:44] <TheBigK> i donwloaded kernel sources... nad
checked the inotify docs... but the explanation is quite short...
its just a general explanation
738[12:36:20] <ratrace> TheBigK: but back to previous question.
if you run the ExecStart command, minding the substitutions,
manually... does it work?
739[12:36:33] <TheBigK> lets find out :)
740[12:36:36] <ratrace> (as minidlna user)
741[12:36:46] <TheBigK> ofc... i understand where ur going with
this :)
742[12:37:02] <TheBigK> i should use smaller files... brrr :D
743[12:38:21] <wyre> hi guys, I cannot user usermod as root in a
fresh install
744[12:38:35] <wyre> why is this? (I'm trying to add my new
user to sudo group)
745[12:38:55] <wyre> I'm root but when I perform `usermod
-aG sudo user` I have a 'usermod command not found'
746[12:39:03] <ratrace> !buster su
747[12:39:03] <dpkg> In buster, su no longer overrides PATH by
default, requiring that you use "su -" or "su
-l" for login shells (which is not really a new thing at
all...). See
replaced-url
748[12:40:11] <ratrace> TheBigK: another possibility, but I
don't know what the error message would be exactly ... if you
have more files than default kernel inotify watches
749[12:40:36] <ratrace> default is 8k
750[12:40:47] <ratrace> the fs.inotify.max_user_watches sysctl
751[12:41:50] <wyre> ty ratrace 😀
752[12:41:51] <TheBigK> ratrace: i raised it. and still no
change
753[12:41:59] <TheBigK> with manually running the daemon
754[12:42:11] <ratrace> TheBigK: wait, running manually it still
results with no permissions?
755[12:42:21] <TheBigK> yes... but i think i might have it...
772[12:45:16] <TheBigK> or do u think its something related to
btrfs
773[12:45:33] <TheBigK> now im glad that i did use a larger test
file :D
774[12:46:16] <ratrace> btrfs (and ZFS) do all kinds of magic
internally to handle snapshots and subvolumes
775[12:46:19] <TheBigK> i gonna go eat something... ratrace: ur
still the person... thank you so much for discussing it with me...
that put some holes in my theories :D
776[12:46:42] <ratrace> easy to test with a temporary media dir
on the same, root filesystem
777[12:46:57] <ratrace> if it works there, but not across
mountpoints ... it's either btrfs issue or
inotify-across-mountpoints issue.
786[12:50:44] <ratrace> I've been assuming so far that you
tried these tests without altering service's User or Group, and
instead put the "minidlna" in the "share" group
788[12:51:12] <ratrace> otherwise, indeed, altering the service
group might very well bork the /run/ and /var/log/ dependencies ...
but then that error message is miselading
830[13:38:25] <filePeter> Hi, does somebody know what software
is used for the debian bts email control service? I’d like to
implement a similar service but can’t seem to find the used
packages…
832[13:39:35] <Botyuba> in my fstab i added several remote file
shares, also added the _netdev option so they may automatically
mount after boot, but boot.log claims the mount fails, and i have to
use 'sudo mount -a' every single time i reboot my system
833[13:40:11] <Botyuba> the systemctl that is recomneded for
investigating contains nor error codes or anyghing of value, it only
mentions exit code
834[13:40:14] <Botyuba> but not code
835[13:40:26] <Botyuba> is it possible to automate the
"sudo mount -a"?
836[13:40:47] <Botyuba> possibly using a systemd user service?
891[14:43:57] <folti_> does anybody have problem with bluetooth
keyboard? Charged it to the max, tried to add it using bluetooth
manager bulit into gnome 3.30, installed blueman olso- it keeps
writing ONLY zeroes to the terminal, address bar and anything with
text input box. Driver problem or it's just old? Hasn't
been falling on the floor, hasn't been drained with water. any
suggestions?
892[14:45:20] <folti_> bluetooth devices doesn't recognize
it. I've ruled out man-in-the-middle attack using mitmf
909[14:58:25] <rnix> hi, i have installed 5.9.0 kernel from
backports in debian buster. now, when installing some packages it
removes the bp kernel and installs 4.19.0. do i need to pin the bp
kernel somehow?
910[14:59:33] <folti_> like, mark it "manually
installed"?
915[15:03:10] <folti_> autoremove won't remove it if you
mark it manually installed but deps...hm. I've marked xorg as
manually installed and still running xorg and not wayland.
haven't had issues with that. Ok, maybe mine bluetooth keyboard
has issues with it . hm
916[15:03:55] <folti_> rnix:which package are you trying to
install?
922[15:06:56] <jelly> folti_, which debian release is this with
the bt keyboard
923[15:07:11] <folti_> buster on 4.19
924[15:07:22] <rnix> folti_: i installed
linux-image-5.9.0-0.bpo.5-amd64 directly. when installing -t
buster-backports linux-image-amd64 it seems to work as expected,
currently this pulls a 5.10 kernel
928[15:08:52] <jelly> I think I have a similar keyboard but...
nah, it has its own 2.4GHz usb wireless thingy
929[15:09:37] <folti_> ah, lucky you ;) I won't buy any bt
kbds anymore
930[15:10:59] <folti_> rnix: you can try to mark 5.9 as manually
installed but, from experience, you will have to lookout on the
changes in dep tree. autclean for old kernels and update-initramfs,
of course
931[15:12:35] <hegemoOn> hello mates
932[15:12:37] <rnix> folti_: as said, letting apt choose the
recent kernel from backports solved my issue, thanks
1009[15:57:34] <wintersky> any clues?
replaced-url
1010[15:58:04] <themill> !bat
1011[15:58:04] <dpkg> [Basic Apt* Troubleshooting]. To diagnose
your problem, we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete
output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used)
2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL
packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache
policy". Use
replaced-url
1027[16:02:33] <themill> buster/updates has the version of
chromium you've asked for but you don't have a mirror for
buster so it's uninstallable
1028[16:02:42] <vincent-> Hello. I have already read the
recommendation of not mirroring the security repo. However, I still
want to do it. I'm trying to use "debmirror", which
worked fine when mirror the archive repo. However, when trying to
mirror security.debian.org/debian-security it fails:
replaced-url
1038[16:06:37] <vincent-> themill, if I use
"--method=http", then it still wants to do this:
"Updating remote trace files (using rsync) ...", and that
fails.
1039[16:07:12] <wintersky> themill: when should i add
bullseye/updates to sources.list?
1040[16:07:40] <themill> wintersky: you can do that right now,
although it's called bullseye-security
1041[16:07:44] <themill> !bullseye-security
1042[16:07:44] <dpkg> Security updates in testing are delayed by
the normal testing migration *and* may be further delayed by missing
dependencies, etc. See
replaced-url
1047[16:08:40] <nindustries> Hi! I have a Python app in a
Debian-based container that's suddenly crashing with free():
invalid Pointer. Any ideas? strace:
replaced-url
1048[16:08:40] <wintersky> themill: thanks, so that's why i
wasn't able to fwetch anything from tat repo
1058[16:10:53] <dpkg> Release-Critical bugs are Debian bugs with
critical, grave or serious severities, preventing the next release
of Debian. See the graph at
replaced-url
1067[16:23:30] <rockworld> hi everyone, I would like to ask if
anyone know how to stop wine popping a windows everytime I get a
notification on a windows game
1096[16:47:59] <stwange> Hey is there a difference between
proftp-basic and proftp-dfsg packages? I'm trying to find
whether or not two CVEs have been patched (CVE-2015-3306 and
CVE-2019-12815) but the changelog for proftpd-basic on my system
ends in 2014 and the version number doesn't seem to quite match
dfsg (mine is 1.3.5e+r1.3.5-2+deb8u7)
1102[16:50:59] <dpkg> Information about the security advisory
CVE-2019-12815 may be found at
replaced-url
1103[16:51:07] <jelly> stwange, in Debian 10? proftpd-dfsg is the
SOURCE package name. proftpd-basic is a BINARY package built that
source. They are one and the same basically.
1104[16:51:55] <jelly> stwange, which debian release do you have
installed?
1105[16:52:36] <ratrace> stretch it seems, by the package version
1106[16:52:57] <jelly> deb8 not stretch but jessie
1107[16:53:15] <ratrace> ah yes
1108[16:53:26] <jelly> I'm asking about the OS not the
particular package right now
1109[16:53:32] <stwange> Thanks Jelly. I can see the proftpd-dfsg
changelogs now in change.Debian, sorry for missing those
1120[16:56:45] <jelly> stwange, ^ if your company depends on
Debian 8, consider paying for ELTS. Otherwise plan to upgrade to
Debian 9 then 10, or migrate services to fresh Debian 10 ASAP
1121[16:57:19] <jelly> same goes even if it's not a company
probably
1179[17:29:46] <jelly> this laptop I use with (don't shoot)
Ubuntu on it wakes up from sleep with two hours extra time, UTC vs
localtime is wrong somewhere, then OS updates the clock when it
reestablishes connection to the internet
1226[18:17:03] <jelly> wintersky, that seems a-ok for a
testing/unstable setup. If you plan to stick to bullseye, remove sid
sooner rather than later and verify which installed package versions
or complete packages are not available after that
1227[18:17:38] <wintersky> well jelly, i pinned sid at 99
1228[18:17:54] <wintersky> which means it only will fetch
packages from sid on demand
1229[18:17:59] <jelly> that's not going to help you as much
as you hope it is
1230[18:18:31] <wintersky> well, my system wont prioritize sid
over bullseye so all is fine
1231[18:18:48] <wintersky> i just pinned it for vbox which, also,
does not work properly
1232[18:19:02] <wintersky> and vbox lost it's presence in
bullseye
1236[18:21:24] <jelly> if you want to stick to bullseye after
it's releases try HARD to get rid of ANY repos newer not
specifically built for bullseye, esp. newer Debian branches
1244[18:23:47] <jelly> wintersky, it's very, very easy to
accidentally pull in a dependency from sid and a) lose track of
security support b) use a mix of package versions that noone else
uses
1247[18:24:26] <jelly> make local builds specifically built for
bullseye
1248[18:24:39] <jelly> !simple sid backport
1249[18:24:39] <dpkg> First, check for a backport on
<debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for
sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable
debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) apt update; apt install
build-essential; apt build-dep packagename 4) apt -b source
packagename 5) dpkg -i packagename-ver.deb To change compilation
options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid
see <uupdate>.
1251[18:25:19] <jelly> wintersky, so pick a path forward,
testing/unstable, or bullseye without unstable
1252[18:25:31] <jelly> if former,
1253[18:25:34] <jelly> !debian-next
1254[18:25:34] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for
testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not*
on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is
invite only)." it means you did not read it's on
irc.oftc.net. See also
replaced-url
1318[19:13:31] <dpkg> A backport is a package from a newer Debian
branch, compiled from source for an older branch to avoid dependency
and <ABI> complications.
replaced-url
1319[19:13:43] <wintersky> backports are not as fast as sid
1320[19:13:47] <somiaj> wintersky: don't mix
stable/unstable, learn to use backports, debian provides them
(kernels and firmware are very common to backports)
1397[20:26:12] <terr> I need to have windows 7 and 10 available
1398[20:26:14] <EdePopede> you could try it out with a test data
partition anyway. just don't put anything important to it as
long as you don't trust it.
1399[20:26:33] <terr> Bare drive.
1400[20:27:10] <EdePopede> if you want to go safe then something
exFAT or w/e maybe. whatever they use for pendrives. or NTFS, but no
idea how linux is with recent versions of it.
1401[20:27:16] <terr> I got a 1TB drive for $40 bux
1403[20:27:59] <echoSMILE> "git verify-tag <tag>"
shoul be enough right?
1404[20:27:59] <EdePopede> again, XP. i used its file systems as
storage areas at the end, only booted it to checkdisk and clean it
up.
1405[20:28:23] <echoSMILE> weird, at one freebsd the verification
works, at debian is like it doesn't
1406[20:28:33] <terr> I was thinking NTFS. But you are right.
Thumbs use exFat by default
1407[20:28:55] <EdePopede> terr, i was reading something
*against* exFAT somewhere. no idea where. maybe...
1408[20:28:58] <EdePopede> !exfat
1409[20:28:58] <dpkg> exFAT (Extended File Allocation Table,
<MBR> partition ID 0x07) is a proprietary file system designed
for flash drives. A <FUSE> driver providing exFAT read/write
support is packaged for Debian as exfat-fuse.
replaced-url
1410[20:29:20] <EdePopede> nope, doesn't sound like
"don't use it, it's bad"
1411[20:29:27] <EdePopede> !fatx
1412[20:29:37] <EdePopede> oh
1413[20:29:39] <EdePopede> !coffee
1414[20:29:39] <dpkg> somebody said coffee was the reason the net
exists, the drug of choice for a GNU generation,
replaced-url
1418[20:32:28] <terr> News is on. They are bitching about a
gasoline shortage because of the Colonial pipeline. I don't
know why they are worried. They figure windmills will do the job!!
1419[20:32:35] <sney> !ot
1420[20:32:35] <dpkg> #debian is primarily a support channel for
Debian users. Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and
take longer discussions and non-support questions to
#debian-offtopic. Imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of
people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few
minutes every day.
1421[20:33:19] <terr> Does Debian fully support NTFS?
1458[21:11:26] <sney> ntfs is fully supported for read/write on
separate volumes, but it can't be used for anything that
requires unix permissions
1459[21:11:53] <sney> it's also a little slow because of the
fuse overhead, but you may not notice that in practice depending on
what you're storing on it
1472[21:24:21] <folti_> yes, ntfs is supported in deb and you can
mount your lin mbr ext3 and ext4 parts with a an 3rd party driver in
for ext2/ext3. look it up on the net. i know that it existed at some
point. q=ext3/ext4 driver for win 7
1489[21:30:31] <folti_> the debian gui installer will offer you
to install itself along win7. you can make space for your future
ext4 partition from win Disk Manager. just format it as fat32 and
install debian on ext4 during install process
1490[21:32:44] <EdePopede> really, new machine, win7? my used
lenovo came with win10 already. how long until doomsday?
1494[21:34:02] <terr> I will repartition when I get it and likely
lift the whole image. I think this should be fine (if not please
advise). It is a 1TB drive. I sure don't need 1 TB for win 7!!!
The question I have is this: at least 3 partitions. Linux, win 7,
win 10, probably shared data. So I'll be subdividing the 4th
partition. I was doing this months ago and I think I have a plan
that works. Oh. 2 more operating systems: win 7 (32 & 64) win 10
(32 & 64)
1495[21:34:05] <folti_> win7 is actually more private than win10s
'cause of amount of telemetry they can send. if someone needs
win-box for some reason and that specific app can run on 7...
1501[21:37:05] <terr> The machine has a windows 10 (64)
installed. This is a new drive which will likely replace the present
one. If so... its 64 bit. If external then I want both 32 & 64
so I can usexut on anything and this will include a Raspberry pi
1503[21:38:47] <terr> Nope. Offline. Debian will go online.
Windows is going to be so shut down utcwill think it's in
Antarctica at the bottom of Lake vostok
1504[21:39:06] <folti_> ok, select uefi install option when you
install debian (on partitionig part of installer). it will obviousli
be gpt, NOT mbr. could be fun if the shared partion would be zfs.
it's an ssd or hdd?
1505[21:39:46] <terr> Hdd
1506[21:40:32] <folti_> zfs is also supported under debian and
openzfs is a port for win ;) try zfs as shared.
1507[21:40:59] <terr> Ssd in the rpi but I want to be able to
boot from a USB hdd. Don't know why yet.
1517[21:45:43] <terr> Ya. This is an HP notebook. Looks pretty
good and a good price too. I have twin towers as well. I hope I
don't need windows but I might for some software I am forced to
use
1519[21:46:31] <somiaj> terr: running win 10 inside a vm works
great for lost of things, what I use the few times I have to access
windows only software.
1520[21:47:24] <terr> Can the OEM version do this?
1521[21:48:53] <folti_> what? to change the boot sequence? or to
run vms?
1522[21:49:01] <terr> I hate to send any money to that 2 bit
company. They have cost me years of my life
1523[21:49:18] <terr> Vm
1524[21:49:18] <somiaj> I'm unsure on the windows license
and if running the OEM version that comes with a laptop inside a VM
is considered legal or not.
1525[21:49:26] <terr> Visit
1526[21:49:49] <terr> Vms runs on a VAX
1527[21:49:52] <somiaj> This is a bit outside of debian support,
I'm just pointing out that I find windows 10 in a vm fairly
smooth for no graphical stuff, and gives you access without having
to dual boot
1529[21:50:28] <terr> If it will run this is how I will do it.
1530[21:50:33] <jmcnaught> I would also avoid dual boot and use
Windows in a VM if possible. Make sure the laptop supports
virtualization before you buy it though.
1532[21:51:38] <EdePopede> <terr> Nope. Offline. Debian
will go online. <-- that was also my idea for the lenovo. never
been relevant but now with a fritzbox with half a dozen slots, why
not. what would be the best way to AUTOMATICALLY have the router
block the PC when it's booted into windows? could i fake the
MAC in grub or something?
1533[21:51:40] <folti_> you get a license code from ms with that
oem edition, right? you are probably paying it, so ask for it.
1534[21:52:10] <terr> Never thought of that. Let me get the type
of cpus. BRB.
1568[22:32:55] <forgotmynick> I'm trying to get an
additional SFTP user (user2) for user1 but to make sure when user2
creates any files or folders, the ownership stays as user user1 and
group user1. user1 has group membership of user1 and sftponly. user2
has group membership of user1 and sftponly and home directory set to
/home/user1. Config has "Match Group sftpgroup" and
"ChrootDirectory %h". When sftp as user2, I see user1 home
directory
1569[22:32:55] <forgotmynick> chrooted perfectly fine, however
(obviously) I can't create folders/files. I've seen some
posts online referencing setfacl but I don't fully understand
how to use it. Please advise?
1593[22:52:36] <Quietus> I don't think even with setfacl you
can replace ownership of a file at creation. You can ensure the
permissions stick with a default ACL on the directory but the owner
of will still be user2. What problem are you trying to solve with
setting the owner to user2? There may be a better approach.
1594[22:55:40] *** Quits: ayekat (~ayekat@replaced-ip) (Quit: watching this channel in stealth mode now)
1595[22:56:12] *** Quits: stwange (~j@replaced-ip) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
1609[23:07:13] <earendel> hi. can dd a raw image straight onto a
device?
1610[23:07:34] *** Quits: BenjiProd (~BenjiProd@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1611[23:07:40] <johnjay> when i look at debian cd images to
download one says 'mac' and the other 'edu'?
1612[23:07:43] <johnjay> i can't find what those mean
1613[23:08:05] <jelly> earendel, yes, but be careful abot picking
a large enough (output) block size
1614[23:08:39] <sney> johnjay: usually there is a blurb on the
cdimage index page, but anyway, 'mac' is for specific
older intel mac models and 'edu' contains some
education-specific package sets.
1615[23:08:43] <earendel> jelly: okay. what size would you
suggest?
1616[23:08:56] <earendel> 1024?
1617[23:08:58] <johnjay> i see
1618[23:08:59] <jelly> earendel, depends on the destination
device
1619[23:09:03] <sney> johnjay: the one that does *not* say
'mac' or 'edu' is the one to use for most
systems.
1620[23:09:13] <jelly> earendel, what kind of device is it?
1621[23:09:17] <earendel> jolly: an usb thumbstick
1622[23:09:21] <johnjay> ah ok older intel macintosh machines is
ee it
1623[23:09:29] <earendel> jelly pardon
1624[23:09:31] <jelly> earendel, bs=4M
1625[23:09:37] <earendel> ok. thanks
1626[23:09:39] <johnjay> intel macintosh still doesn't
register as a thing in my brain
1633[23:10:56] <earendel> or should i format it at least in the
same fs?
1634[23:10:56] <jelly> earendel, maybe not, but it depends on
what you're going to do with the image, and what kind of image
it is
1635[23:11:06] <jelly> no need to format anything
1636[23:11:16] <sney> johnjay: if you use the netinst with a
working network connection, simply select xfce from the installer
menu.
1637[23:11:20] <earendel> ok. let's give it a try. thx jelly
1638[23:11:20] <jelly> the image already contains a format
1639[23:11:42] <johnjay> ok i'll try that thanks
1640[23:12:13] <earendel> it should. yeah. however the orgigin
partition is smaller than usb size.. i wonder if it will be recreate
in the original size. i guess s.