Realtime Nick Name Ticker of #debian at freenode (ICQ IRC service)

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11[00:10:14] <tdn> somiaj, so, that was exactly what I did. Then it needed some more. And I added them. And so on.
12[00:10:52] <tdn> somiaj, replaced-url
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17[00:11:13] <LtL> the quintessential 'rabbit hole.'
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27[00:14:03] <ws2k3> i installed openvpn on debian. and placed my configuretion in /etc/openvpn/client. wasnt there a systemd command to start a spesific openvpn client?
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32[00:15:34] <LtL> tdn: dpkg --configure -a .. then apt-get -f install .. try again
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35[00:17:24] <brutser> i decrypt a keyfile at initramfs phase and use that to decrypt rootfs, now I like to leave no "trace" of this unencrypted keyfile once the rootfs is decrypted, how would i make sure of that?
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38[00:18:31] <lupine> brutser: what does "decrypt rootfs" mean here?
39[00:19:00] <brutser> lupine: /
40[00:19:03] <lupine> is it a read-only thing that you're copying into RAM once, or is this just luks, which keeps the key in memory to service all reads and writes subsequent to setup?
41[00:19:17] <lupine> if the latter, you're asking for the impossible, you see
42[00:19:26] <brutser> ah ok
43[00:20:08] <brutser> lupine: then probably i am asking for the impossible
44[00:20:36] <tdn> LtL, the same.
45[00:20:45] <brutser> lupine: and how does luks work with only a passphrase, it keeps that in memory too?
46[00:21:37] <LtL> tdn: personally i would uninstall all of it, install v9, then upgrade to backp9ort. save your docs first
47[00:21:38] <brutser> lupine: it seems a little security risk by keeping the unecrypted keyfile into memory during the session, so if you get owned during the session, the attacker could read the keyfile from memory?
48[00:21:48] <lupine> I think the key is stored encrypted, it uses the passphrase to decrypt it, then keeps the decrypted key in memory for the duration of the boot
49[00:22:03] <lupine> brutser: sure, it's just an essential part of how it works
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52[00:22:49] <brutser> lupine: yes i knew it worked that way, i was just approaching it here from security pov and now i am a little puzzled
53[00:23:24] <LtL> tdn: do a dry run first to avoid massive removals, apt-get -s remove packages
54[00:23:36] <lupine> the threat model luks protects against is attacks on offline data
55[00:23:50] <lupine> say the cops raid your place, seize all your computers, turning the power off in the process
56[00:24:09] <lupine> it's good to have for that specific use case, and does nothing for several other use cases
57[00:24:21] <tdn> LtL, I do not have the option to reinstall my system at this point
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59[00:25:07] <LtL> tdn: you won't need to reinstall the system, i just meant libreoffice
60[00:25:19] <tdn> LtL, oh
61[00:25:27] <LtL> sorry for the confusion
62[00:26:06] <brutser> lupine: i have keyfile.tar.pgp embedded in initrd, during initramfs phase it ask for passphrase to decrypt this, then crypttab use keyfile to decrypt the luks encrypted rootfs - i am ok with LUKS copying this file to ram, but if i decrypt this during initramfs, do i leave the unecrypted keyfile on the disk??
63[00:26:26] <quaxoxl> i am having an odd pre-confuigured thing going on duig some ysb install - i did make a bootable usb, and it orks. but when the pre-conformed software looks for the integrity of my inexistant 'cd-rom-driv', it halts, wanting new source insert. how do i get by this? i see of no reason why i suddenly would be having this trouble after installing from usb fine, fore. it is a debian fork but i know not if this
64[00:26:32] <quaxoxl> matters.
65[00:26:34] <lupine> brutser: no, just in ram
66[00:26:39] <brutser> lupine: ok
67[00:26:55] <quaxoxl> merry a greeting to one and all, ofcourse ;> lukewarm cookies and milk w/ honey for all
68[00:27:06] <brutser> lupine: let me continue test this, thanks for the help
69[00:27:31] <annadane> COOKIES!
70[00:27:35] <annadane> om nom nom nom nom
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73[00:28:52] <quaxoxl> annadane - nothing like fresh from "mom"'s kitchen ;>
74[00:28:55] <tdn> LtL, I just did that. Removed libreoffice libreoffice-core. Then tried installing with -t. But now it seems I am stuck in the same place
75[00:29:17] <quaxoxl> food is love, soul and enrichenment in many forms also enviromentally speaking in all baranches and obscuremanners of integration
76[00:29:39] * quaxoxl honks down to wait for hopeful question for answer
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79[00:35:11] <LtL> tdn: $ dpkg -l |grep libreoffice # remove any version package that show a conflict from apt, then install again. hopefullt it will work.
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81[00:35:42] <scwizard> hello. I'm trying to install mysql server version 5.7.25
82[00:35:47] <somiaj> ,v libreoffice-common
83[00:35:48] <judd> Package: libreoffice-common on amd64 -- jessie: 1:4.3.3-2+deb8u11; jessie-security: 1:4.3.3-2+deb8u12; stretch: 1:5.2.7-1+deb9u10; stretch-security: 1:5.2.7-1+deb9u11; stretch-backports: 1:6.1.5-3+deb10u2~bpo9+1; buster: 1:6.1.5-3+deb10u3; buster-security: 1:6.1.5-3+deb10u4; buster-backports: 1:6.3.0-2~bpo10+1; bullseye: 1:6.3.0-2; sid: 1:6.3.0-2; buster-backports:
84[00:35:49] <judd> 1:6.3.1-1~bpo10+1
85[00:36:00] <scwizard> anyone have any clue how to do this sanely
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87[00:36:10] <LtL> tdn: if it reinstalls, write down what you remove, be certain they exist post-install, they should.
88[00:36:12] <somiaj> tdn: you may have to keep going down the list of packages until you figure out what one apt has an actual conflict with
89[00:36:33] <somiaj> unforuntally, sometimes apt only lists the first thing it had trouble with (not the end of the chain that actually caused the conflict)
90[00:36:34] <LtL> exactly ^^
91[00:36:54] <maxtim> what's the difference between using .sh and having no file extension when #!/bin/bash is defined within the script?
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93[00:37:22] <somiaj> maxtim: personal convience, some like extensions to make file types really easy to tell without looking in the file.
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95[00:37:56] <somiaj> but then your commands end in .sh, and may scripts (python, bash, perl) don't have an extension due to not wanting to include it in the command line
96[00:38:10] <lupine> personally, I use `.sh` if it's primarily intended to be sourced, but I may still want it to be executable
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99[00:39:10] <maxtim> somiaj, alright, well that settles that. I've had trouble using .sh scripts as an autostart script in systemd. specifically with `if [[ ]]' operator
100[00:39:55] <maxtim> i had a suspicion personal preference was the case
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102[00:40:12] <somiaj> hmm, unsure why having .sh would cause problems, but yea it is optional (in general one should never trust the file extension anyways to tell you what the file really is)
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105[00:42:13] <maxtim> good advice
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107[00:43:20] <LtL> tdn: when i get a dependency conflict upgrading something, i just stop, removing the offending package and start the install again, install that package later (if it didn't reinstall itself) always seemed to work.
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115[00:45:22] <maxtim> I can execute the script as normal, but it fails on startup and running systemctl start throws syntax errors
116[00:45:53] <somiaj> Are you using a systemd unit file to start it? Care to share the unit file?
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119[00:47:31] <maxtim> replaced-url
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121[00:48:30] <somiaj> the $MAINPID seems off to me, but unsure if this is someting systemd knows or not
122[00:48:31] <maxtim> rights to file are 740
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124[00:49:10] <somiaj> hmm, no seems to be a systemd thing. Does the error tell you where the syntax errors are?
125[00:49:21] <somiaj> Also could it be that your script runs in bash but not dash?
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127[00:49:42] <somiaj> oh your shebhang points at bash so that shouldn't matter
128[00:50:10] <maxtim> this is probably going to show my n00bness, but whats dash?
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130[00:50:34] <somiaj> on debian systems /bin/sh points to /bin/dash (debian's default system shell)
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132[00:50:58] <somiaj> dash is POSIX compliant, but far simplier (and faster) than bash, and all system things should be using dash
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134[00:51:16] <lupine> pretty sure we should abolish sh for all system things
135[00:51:17] <somiaj> but dash will fail on certain bash only syntax
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137[00:52:00] <filpAM> Dash source code needs a clean up. It's hacky as hell
138[00:52:06] <maxtim> this is the first time hearing of dash... interesting. sounds like a new rabbit hole for another day
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140[00:52:34] <somiaj> maxtim: basically on debian if you use #!/bin/sh, you use dash, and don't change that.
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143[00:55:25] <maxtim> I don't know any syntax for dash today, so i'm going to wait on that for now. systemctl status said failed with timeout. I have a `sleep 30` command in the script to wait for openvpn to finish initializing before proceeding to next steps
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147[00:57:04] <somiaj> maybe that is your problem. Also this seems to be a networking script, what do you use to configure the network?
148[00:57:43] <maxtim> ip and iptables
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150[00:58:06] <somiaj> so you manually have scripts for your network, you don't say use the debian interfaces file?
151[00:58:22] <somiaj> I'm not talking about your vpn here, I'm talking about your normal network configuration
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153[00:58:56] <alkumaish> where can I can get security updates for wheezy? or is it impossible now without compiling my own packages?
154[00:59:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1550
155[00:59:08] <somiaj> !lts
156[00:59:09] <dpkg> Debian Long Term Support (LTS) is a project to extend the lifetime of all Debian stable releases to (at least) 5 years. Debian LTS is not handled by the Debian security team, but by a separate group of volunteers and companies. Ask me about <jessie-lts> and see replaced-url
157[00:59:12] <somiaj> !wheezy lts
158[00:59:12] <dpkg> Security support for Debian 7 "Wheezy" from the Debian Security Team ended on 2016-04-25. The amd64, i386, armel and armhf architectures receive additional long term support (LTS) via <wheezy/updates> until 2018-05-31. See replaced-url
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160[00:59:36] <maxtim> rip wheezy
161[00:59:44] <somiaj> alkumaish: looks like LTS support has ended, there was ELTS support, unsure if there is still funding for that
162[00:59:47] <somiaj> !elts
163[00:59:48] <dpkg> Limited commercial support for wheezy exists in form of Extended LTS, see replaced-url
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165[01:00:49] <somiaj> but it does appear that there is still some support for wheezy via ELTS support.
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172[01:03:54] <lupine> don't do it
173[01:03:55] <alkumaish> somiaj: not worth it. it's a cheap vps not running anything critical. I just don't want to go through setting everyting up again on centos because the vps provider does not provide debian images anymore. only centos
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176[01:05:33] <alkumaish> I thought i'd plug the holes temporarily until I figure out how to upgrade from 7 to 8 ot 9 without destroying everyting :/
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178[01:06:14] <somiaj> alkumaish: you shouln't need to do much to run ELTS, it will give you some security support (though it appears they only support 3.16 kernel, not the stock 3.2 wheezy kernel naymore)
179[01:06:17] <arare> hey do i have voice
180[01:06:20] <arare> i guess so
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182[01:06:29] <somiaj> but yea, ELTS is your only option for any security support for wheezy now.
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193[01:10:46] <arare> so if a freeze locks out sysrq, what are some logs to check after a reset
194[01:11:29] <somiaj> arare: if you have the directory /var/log/journal you can use timestamps to check all systemd logs right before the crash
195[01:11:38] <somiaj> otherwise /var/log/messages, and other things in /var/log might be useful
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197[01:16:26] <arare> hmm
198[01:16:35] <arare> thanks but they seem innouous
199[01:17:06] <arare> anywhere else i can look? how do developers diagnose this?
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201[01:18:21] <LtL> arare: coredumps i imagine, but they are disabled on debian
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204[01:18:43] <arare> hmm
205[01:18:56] <scwizard> alkumaish
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207[01:19:29] <scwizard> clean slates are very healthy and you should get used to them, doubly so for servers
208[01:20:04] <somiaj> personally if this is a recuring issue, I would just 'mkdir /var/log/journal' so you have preistant journals across boots
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211[01:20:33] <arare> alright
212[01:20:42] <arare> is that related to journalctl
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215[01:21:15] <somiaj> yea, it makes journald's binary journal persistant by giving it a place to write to the disk
216[01:21:49] <arare> qh
217[01:21:51] <arare> ah
218[01:21:58] <somiaj> you should run systemd-tmpfiles --create --prefix /var/log/journal to put your current tmp files in there for the curret boot, then it also suggest you restart journald, killall -USR1 systemd-journald
219[01:22:36] <LtL> wheezy was systemd? i thought it was sysV
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221[01:23:42] <somiaj> this file says what you need to do /usr/share/doc/systemd/README.Debian.gz
222[01:24:01] <somiaj> LtL: oh this is for wheezy, guess I thought this was for a differnt user.
223[01:24:16] <somiaj> correct, in wheezy systemd was only a system preview, sysv was default (both were usable)
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225[01:24:51] <arare> im not on wheezy if youre talking about me
226[01:25:09] <LtL> arare: yeah, we were :)
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228[01:25:40] <somiaj> arare: check out the file I linked for the instructions from the debian devs on what is needed to enable persistant logs, this will help yo uin the future if this happens again
229[01:25:47] <LtL> i mixed up users somewhere too, it seems.
230[01:25:51] <somiaj> at least it gives you far more logs and you can try to see what happened right at the freeze/crash
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232[01:26:05] <arare> i wish i could find a pallet for xresources that worked everywhere
233[01:26:19] <arare> weechat highlights things in a weird way
234[01:26:39] <arare> i am reading the systemd thing if thats what you mean somiaj
235[01:27:14] <arare> although you did bascially tell me the beginning already haha
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238[01:27:48] <somiaj> I was just making sure I didn't miss some small detail
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249[01:32:33] <epsilon> is there any decoder for Barcode/QR-code, decoding from a photo/screenshot? In apt search I can only find encoder, but no decoder...
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252[01:33:59] <LtL> ,v qtqr
253[01:34:00] <judd> Package: qtqr on amd64 -- jessie: 1.4~bzr21-1; stretch: 1.4~bzr21-1; bullseye: 1.4~bzr32-1; buster: 1.4~bzr32-1; sid: 1.4~bzr32-1
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255[01:34:10] <LtL> ,info qtqr
256[01:34:11] <judd> Package qtqr (python, optional) in buster/amd64: Qt frontend for QR code generator and decoder. Version: 1.4~bzr32-1; Size: 38.2k; Installed: 184k; Homepage: replaced-url
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260[01:35:11] <LtL> epsilon: ^^^
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270[01:40:09] <epsilon> LtL: thx, need to check on debian 10, the version on 9 at least throws just python error while decoding...
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272[01:41:02] <LtL> epsilon: good luck, i rarely have success with QR codes
273[01:41:41] <LtL> epsilon: i'm speaking about my iphone though.
274[01:42:27] <nvz> siri, fml
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276[01:44:00] <nvz> I never got hip to the QR code thing, but I had considered data matricies and images to be a possibility for a program I was concieving..
277[01:44:44] <nvz> rather than people taking crappy screenshots with a cam, it produces a data matrix you take a picture of that is decoded back into text
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279[01:45:14] <nvz> giving you a means to pastebin more than will fit on a screen to take a picture of
280[01:45:21] <nvz> without network
281[01:45:25] <LtL> cool
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291[01:47:27] <nvz> I mean you figure even using like ASCII cursor chars the big block things.. on a 16 color 80x24 terminal.. thats still what? nearly 4kb?
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304[01:59:22] <LtL> yeah, about 4kB
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327[02:10:21] <LtL> interesting that qrqt is the same version from jessie through sid. don't see that often.
328[02:11:30] <LtL> oops wrong.
329[02:12:07] <LtL> i'm a QR code, scan me you get 'No Data Found'
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338[02:20:32] <somiaj> LtL: happens a lot with dead software, or really good software, debian keeps stuf around until it is really broken.
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341[02:21:09] <somiaj> but there is a lot of old tools that people use that don't need updates, and if it continues to work/build it just sticks around doing its job
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343[02:21:35] <somiaj> though I was a bit sad when they started taking out things like xroaches because it no longer built nicely
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345[02:22:32] <LtL> heh, i remember xroachess
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348[02:24:33] <LtL> they were cool, bugs all over your desktop. totally forgot about them. sad
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350[02:28:48] <LtL> xpenguins was fun also
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352[02:31:33] <LtL> ,info xmille
353[02:31:34] <judd> Package xmille (games, optional) in buster/amd64: The classic game of Mille Bournes. Version: 2.0-13; Size: 31.6k; Installed: 208k; Screenshot: replaced-url
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361[02:36:16] <LtL> bug #158188
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363[02:36:47] <LtL> hrm, xroach bug report is gone i guess, circa 2002
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381[02:51:10] <wr> wanna do a encrypted debian install on one harddisk so to some point i dont need lvm i guess, on menu see lvm encrypted only, any way other way to this? will i need lvm?
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383[02:55:50] <karlpinc> wr: LVM is handy, especially on an encrypted device, because you can have multiple partitions and freely resize them/re-allocate space. Otherwise if you have more than one partition you have separate passwords for each (potentially).
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385[02:56:36] <karlpinc> wr: But I don't believe the installer requires you to use lvm if you encrypt. You can first partition, then encrypt.
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388[02:57:40] <wr> karlpinc, by the way once installed normally i always have to set pass at boot, any to avoid input?
389[02:57:55] <wr> *way
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398[03:03:47] <wr> karlpinc, replaced-url
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425[03:39:19] <lembron> hi there, anything major changed from 10 to 10.1 that would "fail mariadb installation in docker"? -- worked fine ~3 weeks ago, now hangs for +1 hour on "Setting up mariadb-server-10.3" -- inspecting the container makes it seem as if its waiting for something to show up? replaced-url
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442[03:54:47] <zjack> how do i use gpg to verify a debian iso
443[03:55:41] <dvs> zjack, you don't. you verify the SUM files that they have not been modified and then check the SUM
444[03:56:31] <zjack> dvs, im following the documentation on replaced-url
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446[03:56:54] <dvs> the key id ;-)
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449[03:57:58] <zjack> dvs, well that key id is the key id used in the example, how do i know if thats the right key id?
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451[03:58:43] <Pi4_Noob> Hello. I am trying to get networking using networkd up and running. I have systemd-networkd, systemd-resolvd up and running. When I boot eht0 is up, but no address.
452[03:58:45] <Pi4_Noob> systemctl status systemd-resolved says running but gives an error: Retyring transaction 59127, Transaction 59127 for <raspberrypi IN ANY? scope llmnr eth0/INET6, Sending query packet with id 59127 on interface 2/AF_INET6
453[03:59:00] <lembron> ok that one was embarrassing... "disk full" - damn docker-machine defaults ;D - maria up&running now
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462[04:01:42] <dvs> zjack, there's a debian-keyring package which contains the proper key for each release.
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468[04:07:52] <dvs> zjack, replaced-url
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483[04:21:59] <nvz> LtL: yeah xmille is rather atrocious because all the widgets are statically sized.. its especially annoying on small screens
484[04:22:17] <nvz> for that reason I often just played the bsdgames version
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488[04:23:36] <LtL> nvz: i'm not much for games, never tried xmille, i do like pokerth now and then.
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491[04:24:32] <nvz> Pi4_Noob: 1) raspbian isn't supported here 2) debian doesn't use systemd-networkd by default maybe try #systemd or #raspbian
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493[04:25:05] <LtL> zjack: there a gpg --verify method using the sha256.sign file and maybe the checksum string but i forget the syntax
494[04:25:17] <Pi4_Noob> nvz, thank you, I have been on raspberry but it isn't active yet.
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497[04:26:48] <zjack> LtL, when i try to use gpg --verify to check the signature file against the other file it says gpg cant check signature public key not found
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507[04:30:01] <quaxoxl> would that mean database error or dubious ongoings mainly - i sm not knwledged but i would not assume the database "handshake" has any way of not not identifying it correctly
508[04:30:17] <quaxoxl> are you completelt sure you set this up properly with the right contact association(s)
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511[04:31:53] <awal1> dpkg: 5GHz
512[04:31:54] <dpkg> awal1: KCI error, or a problem with the Keyboard-Chair Interface.
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521[04:38:19] <LtL> zjack: thats probably where you need to have the debian-keyring installed, the .sign file is the gpg signing block. It's been so long since i did that i can't remember and don't have the time to try right now
522[04:39:12] <LtL> zjack: keep at it, you'll figure it out.
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525[04:41:22] <zjack> LtL, i figured it out, thank you for your time.
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569[05:33:54] <paqcito> Well, I think I messed up really bad. I removed all ca-certificates in /usr/share/ca-certificates ha. Any way I can fix this?
570[05:34:35] <dvs> paqcito, apt --reinstall install ca-certificates
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573[05:35:41] <paqcito> ill try that!
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617[05:51:28] <paqcito> dvs thanks
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663[06:22:24] <asterismo_l> hi
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665[06:22:40] <asterismo_l> i find so difficult to install docker in debian 9
666[06:22:44] <asterismo_l> why is it?
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668[06:23:25] <asterismo_l> does anybody have installed sharelatex in debian 9?
669[06:25:00] <xsoultartar> asterismo_l, Just follow the instruction from replaced-url
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675[06:27:24] <asterismo_l> xsoultartar, lets see
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680[06:29:56] <terrible> someone here use irssi the irc chat
681[06:30:23] <terrible> how can i change server that im already logged?
682[06:30:39] <asterismo_l> xsoultartar, replaced-url
683[06:30:48] <asterismo_l> i get the same error
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685[06:30:55] <asterismo_l> it cannot install it
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689[06:31:51] <asterismo_l> this is systemctl output replaced-url
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692[06:32:57] <xsoultartar> asterismo_l, Have you tried to apt purge / remove installed docker and then refollow the installation instruction? replaced-url
693[06:33:07] <asterismo_l> yes
694[06:33:18] <asterismo_l> i added the repository
695[06:34:02] <asterismo_l> and previously issued the command uninstalling older versions which i did not have installed
696[06:34:08] <asterismo_l> just for sure
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700[06:35:03] <xsoultartar> asterismo_l, how about try to curl replaced-url
701[06:35:22] <asterismo_l> curl replaced-url
702[06:35:48] <xsoultartar> Try to run 'curl -fsSL replaced-url
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704[06:36:47] <asterismo_l> trying now
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707[06:38:29] <asterismo_l> xsoultartar, nope replaced-url
708[06:39:33] <xsoultartar> asterismo_l, you need to run it with root privilege
709[06:39:56] <xsoultartar> asterismo_l, ah sorry I dont think that is an isssue
710[06:40:07] <asterismo_l> i'm root
711[06:41:17] <asterismo_l> this is incredible
712[06:41:26] <asterismo_l> i tried many things
713[06:41:37] <asterismo_l> i cannot install docker
714[06:41:44] <asterismo_l> oh my gosh
715[06:43:03] <asterismo_l> I'm gonna go now, throw any other idea and i'll read them later
716[06:43:08] <asterismo_l> thanks xsoultartar
717[06:43:47] <xsoultartar> asterismo_l, maybe this link could be helpful replaced-url
718[06:43:59] <xsoultartar> asterismo_l, You're welcome
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760[07:23:23] <gour> morning
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763[07:24:36] <klys> hi
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767[07:24:54] <gour> i'd like to migrate from xfce to gnome and wonder if using tasksel will do a good job of cleaning old xfce stuff and installing new one (gnome) or it is better to do clean re-install?
768[07:25:29] <klys> probably better to consult /var/log/apt from when you installed xfce; or just reinstall.
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771[07:26:16] <klys> tasksel is a fronted for apt, which doesn't remove stuff cleanly
772[07:26:51] <klys> removing stuff is better done with a combination of deborphan, aptitute, and dselect.
773[07:27:35] *** Parts: candido07 (~paulo@replaced-ip) ()
774[07:27:43] <klys> s/aptitute/aptitude/
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777[07:32:28] <jelly> dselect? *shudder*
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819[08:08:13] <ZaZaGX> i'm a linux
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823[08:10:56] <Haohmaru> <shocking.jpg>
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825[08:11:38] <ZaZaGX> but i'm not a mac
826[08:11:54] <Haohmaru> ah, then we'll get along with you just fine
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828[08:12:29] <annadane> i'm a little teapot short and stout, full of caffeine, without much clout
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831[08:13:01] <Haohmaru> annadane prepare to be.. consumed
832[08:13:09] <ZaZaGX> but i don't use a windows. but i do use a linux pc
833[08:13:49] <Haohmaru> okay, what's going on today here? did i accidentally got myself into #poetry
834[08:14:21] <ZaZaGX> poetry eh?
835[08:14:39] <Haohmaru> or a parallel #debian
836[08:14:39] <annadane> 'twas brillig, and the systemd did gimble and gamble on the waves
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841[08:20:14] <ZaZaGX> i think being a debian user can be depressing
842[08:20:21] <Haohmaru> y
843[08:20:51] <Haohmaru> everything can be depressing when ur.. depressed
844[08:20:54] <ZaZaGX> i'm getting kind of bored all the time. and i don't go out much. i stand on the computer too much
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846[08:21:03] <ZaZaGX> stay*
847[08:21:25] *** Quits: tyranny12 (~blarg@replaced-ip) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
848[08:21:27] <Haohmaru> how is debian causing this?
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850[08:21:41] <ZaZaGX> i guess being a hermit
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854[08:22:26] <Haohmaru> uh..
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861[08:25:25] <kirk781> Are we having a competition as to who is more depressed?
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863[08:26:34] <Haohmaru> what's the opposite of depression?
864[08:26:41] *** Quits: Texou (~Texou@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
865[08:26:42] <ZaZaGX> Can I get your ICQ number?
866[08:27:00] <Haohmaru> okay, now i'm starting to get depressed
867[08:27:19] <Haohmaru> ZaZaGX uninstall ICQ immediately
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870[08:27:35] <ZaZaGX> how come?
871[08:27:44] <kirk781> Huh, ICQ is still popular
872[08:27:53] <Haohmaru> no, it's not!!1oneone
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874[08:28:23] <snooky> moin
875[08:28:32] *** Joins: kalamaki (~kalamaki@replaced-ip)
876[08:28:44] <ZaZaGX> how about AOL Instand Messenager?
877[08:28:44] <annadane> moin
878[08:28:52] <ZaZaGX> Instant
879[08:29:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1536
880[08:29:04] <Haohmaru> AOL - isn't that an american thang?
881[08:30:03] <ZaZaGX> yes
882[08:30:25] *** Joins: Emmanuel_Chanel (~Emmanuel_@replaced-ip)
883[08:30:26] <Haohmaru> then *shrug*
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885[08:30:40] *** Joins: flokuehn (~flokuehn@replaced-ip)
886[08:30:55] <ZaZaGX> how about friendster or myspace?
887[08:31:08] <Haohmaru> all i'm gonna say is: IRC is teh truth
888[08:31:27] *** Quits: tekmans13 (~tekmans@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
889[08:31:53] <ZaZaGX> i think kirk781 is more depressed
890[08:32:28] * Haohmaru puts ZaZaGX and kirk781 on the scales
891[08:33:27] <ZaZaGX> for weight?
892[08:33:30] <Haohmaru> the measurement does not converge
893[08:33:42] <Haohmaru> nah, for depression
894[08:33:43] <kirk781> ZaZaGX, you're not wrong
895[08:33:53] <annadane> i'm awake at 2:30 AM playing video games and being on IRC. i'm pretty depressed.
896[08:34:11] <ZaZaGX> annadane, what game are you playing?
897[08:34:19] <annadane> you'll never know
898[08:34:25] <kirk781> lel
899[08:34:32] <Haohmaru> hopefully it's not Diablo
900[08:34:33] <ZaZaGX> i think i need to go out more and meet more girls
901[08:34:35] <kirk781> Psst, I am playing the game of life.
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904[08:34:46] <kirk781> The graphics are good but the story is terrible.
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906[08:35:08] <Haohmaru> kirk781 does it even have quicksave?
907[08:35:23] <kirk781> Haohmaru, I hope not. I don't want to play it again
908[08:35:33] <annadane> you need a hug.
909[08:35:35] <annadane> *hug*
910[08:35:44] <Haohmaru> okay, i was gonna suggest something but..
911[08:35:54] *** Joins: linuxlars (~lars@replaced-ip)
912[08:35:58] <ZaZaGX> maybe i need medication
913[08:35:59] <kirk781> Meh, I need more dopamine rushes
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915[08:36:21] <ZaZaGX> or try street drugs
916[08:36:26] <Haohmaru> wut, no
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918[08:36:54] <ZaZaGX> i have never tried cocaine
919[08:37:15] <Haohmaru> keep it that way
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922[08:38:26] <ZaZaGX> how about ketamine?
923[08:38:41] <Haohmaru> i've no idea, i'm not a doctor
924[08:39:13] <ZaZaGX> you gotta inject it with a needle
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926[08:39:28] <ZaZaGX> it got legalized since March 2019
927[08:39:33] <Haohmaru> i ain't injecting nuffin'
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930[08:40:11] <ZaZaGX> how about i do it for you?
931[08:40:19] *** Joins: nexgen2 (~nexgen@replaced-ip)
932[08:40:30] <Haohmaru> how about no
933[08:40:40] <ZaZaGX> but Mr. Robot does drugs
934[08:40:52] <ZaZaGX> he is a elite hacker and uses Debian
935[08:40:59] <Haohmaru> okay, that's it, i'm calling the cops
936[08:41:05] <ZaZaGX> oh no
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939[08:43:10] <ZaZaGX> i want to smoke some majuana with some cute single girls
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941[08:44:09] <ZaZaGX> i think that will lift up my spirit
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947[08:45:52] <ZaZaGX> oh, i just googled internet and depression. its bad
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953[08:48:27] <ZaZaGX> i should log off
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964[08:52:50] <ZaZaGX> Haohmaru, you there?
965[08:53:07] <annadane> FWIW guys we do have a #debian-offtopic
966[08:54:10] <ZaZaGX> i need help securing my debian machine
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970[08:55:19] <Haohmaru> ZaZaGX i don't have time for potential drug junkies
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973[08:56:03] <ZaZaGX> i don't do drugs
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978[09:00:56] <evilmind> help
979[09:01:13] *** Joins: arj15 (~arj15@replaced-ip)
980[09:01:32] <klys> wotzdematter
981[09:01:37] <Haohmaru> help is coming <ambulance.gif>
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983[09:02:14] <annadane> evilmind, need more info than that
984[09:02:20] <annadane> !ask
985[09:02:21] <dpkg> If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
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998[09:07:31] <ZaZaGX> i hope kick781 is okay
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1022[09:18:43] <ZaZaGX> so i follwed these steps. do i need to do anymore?
1023[09:18:44] <ZaZaGX> replaced-url
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1027[09:22:56] <ratrace> ZaZaGX: for what kind of threat model?
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1033[09:26:27] <ZaZaGX> the threat model is the feds
1034[09:26:53] <ratrace> then they already have all the ways to break into your system.
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1036[09:27:12] <ratrace> a) dial NSA, b) use the security-busting wrench
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1038[09:27:26] <ZaZaGX> but i secured my grub, and encrypted my harddrive
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1042[09:27:35] <ratrace> ZaZaGX: they can easily break through that
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1044[09:27:45] <ZaZaGX> omg seriously? how?
1045[09:27:49] <ratrace> replaced-url
1046[09:27:58] <ratrace> they'll waterboard you until you spill out the passphrase.
1047[09:28:13] <ZaZaGX> can't i pledge the fifth?
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1049[09:28:49] <ratrace> you can try. you might accidentally disappear though.
1050[09:28:59] <ratrace> oops, we're not in -offtopic ;)
1051[09:29:20] <ZaZaGX> i run a vpn and tor on debian
1052[09:29:40] <ZaZaGX> the vpn i use is not the 14 eyes
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1054[09:30:23] <ratrace> Well anyway, I'm not kidding. As funny as it is, the above comic is depicting reality. If the feds wanted your data (because you're, dunno, a russian spy so skilled that you need to ask on IRC how to secure your systems), they'll get you.
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1056[09:30:57] <ayekat> yeah, if you have to follow a distro wiki article for securing your computer, "the feds" is not a realistic threat model
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1059[09:32:08] <ayekat> s/distro wiki/some guide on the Web/
1060[09:32:09] <ZaZaGX> i thinking of being a leader for a protest
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1063[09:33:24] <ratrace> ight imma head out
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1110[09:54:00] <nvz> that wiki page is terrible.. it might as well just be an xkcd comic
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1115[09:54:59] <nvz> its giving advice to write down passwords multiple times, the author doesn't even seem to know what a hamburger menu is, makes assumptions about what DE is being used or even that one is being used at all..
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1117[09:55:17] <nvz> I'm sure I could write a whole article on all the things wrong with that article :P
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1120[09:55:28] <jelly> I'm a vegetarian, hamburger menus are useless to me
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1123[09:56:00] <nvz> ok then, veggie burger menu :P
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1125[09:57:21] <Unit193> I'm an omnivore, but veggie burger menus are still useless.
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1129[09:59:32] <nvz> well I never liked them either, but calling them "three strikes"? ugh..
1130[09:59:43] <nvz> might as well be calling it three horizontal lines
1131[10:01:17] <ratrace> that's what I call them
1132[10:01:33] <ratrace> "You know those three horizontal lines or three dots? Yeah, tap that..."
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1135[10:05:05] <ayekat> wow, that wiki page is awful
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1139[10:07:51] <vlt> nvz: I read the wiki article and still don't know what hamburger menu refers to. What do you mean?
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1146[10:11:25] <ayekat> vlt: replaced-url
1147[10:11:49] <ayekat> "Click on the 3 strikes in the upper left" <- I guess that's the part
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1149[10:13:40] <vlt> ayekat: TIL, thanks.
1150[10:13:42] <ayekat> I feel like someone more or less just wrote down their personal setup, which they thought to be 'secure'
1151[10:14:05] <ratrace> that article should be taken down, it's an embarassment
1152[10:14:24] <ayekat> "However, GPT requires a mainboard that supports UEFI." - oh dear
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1154[10:15:11] <ratrace> "If you followed this guide this far you reached the most basic level of cybersecurity." oh no you didn't
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1157[10:17:21] <ayekat> ... I thought I could keep playing the game of "quote ridiculous things from that article", but I'd end up just copy-pasting at least half the document
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1168[10:21:45] <Eryn_1983_FL> so i tried to be leet and use the terminal the badass people use, urxvt, and i dont think i like it. what other cool ones are out there besides terminator, i like but it feels bloated?
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1172[10:23:03] <ratrace> Eryn_1983_FL: what about urxvt do you dislike?
1173[10:23:28] <ratrace> and which DE or WM are you using?
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1175[10:24:52] <Eryn_1983_FL> xmonad
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1177[10:25:06] <han-solo> Eryn_1983_FL: konsole :)
1178[10:25:14] <Eryn_1983_FL> well i am having a hard time customizing the copy commands, and now they stopped working altogether.
1179[10:25:24] <Eryn_1983_FL> what about guake i got that one installed right now
1180[10:25:30] <Eryn_1983_FL> i use to use it back in the day
1181[10:26:30] <ratrace> Eryn_1983_FL: there are perl plugins for various copy&pasting activity in rxvt. Checked those?
1182[10:27:23] <Eryn_1983_FL> yeah
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1184[10:27:48] <Eryn_1983_FL> replaced-url
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1187[10:28:27] <EdePopede> ayekat: "3 strikes"? is this about cutting of the internet connection for criminal actions or does it have to do something with baseball?
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1189[10:29:10] <Mathisen> what is wrong with copy/paste in urxvt ? atleast in i3-gaps super + shift + insert is paste
1190[10:29:34] <Eryn_1983_FL> maybe i should comment it out and make it go back to default?
1191[10:29:38] <ratrace> Eryn_1983_FL: xfce terminal ain't bad. Looking from my i3-wm setup now, attempting to install just it doesn't pull in a lot of deps from xfce
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1196[10:30:35] <ayekat> Mathisen: the convention is that shift-insert is "paste the primary selection"
1197[10:30:46] <Eryn_1983_FL> lol
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1199[10:30:48] * ayekat has never heard of super+shift+insert, though
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1201[10:30:57] <Eryn_1983_FL> mmm
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1207[10:31:33] <Haohmaru> whoever invented the hamburger button and more specifically its name, should be put in jail for a very long time
1208[10:31:45] <ratrace> yea I don't use any extra copy&paste plugins for urxvt. shift+ins and selection=copy works for me. I only use keyboard-based URL opener which I plugged into starting firefox in private mode
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1210[10:31:59] <Eryn_1983_FL> ok
1211[10:32:13] *** Parts: diogenes_ (~diogenes_@replaced-ip) ("vergissmeinnicht")
1212[10:32:25] <at0m> Haohmaru: if you hadn't mentioned it nobody would know about it
1213[10:33:11] <Haohmaru> eh?
1214[10:33:24] <ratrace> don't be silly, the menu is quite effective on small displays like mobile. as for its name and outlook, that's a matter of taste, but functionally it's useful
1215[10:33:36] <Eryn_1983_FL> ok i like that better
1216[10:33:39] <Eryn_1983_FL> ty
1217[10:33:51] <Eryn_1983_FL> luke smith was making me crazy with his weirdness.
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1222[10:35:19] <ayekat> wat... I have never expected to hear that name in #debian
1223[10:35:30] <ZaZaGX> what name?
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1228[10:36:12] <ayekat> luke smith - in arch linux mostly known for... not so good "contributions"
1229[10:36:22] <ayekat> but eh, this is now very offtopic
1230[10:36:37] <ZaZaGX> i'll google him
1231[10:37:03] <humpled> hmm
1232[10:38:47] <Haohmaru> ZaZaGX bout security: put a pair of eyes on your back, and carry a wrench with you
1233[10:39:07] <vlt> Haohmaru: In jail? o_O Just curious: Where are you from?
1234[10:39:10] <ZaZaGX> i don't get it. luke smith sounds like a normal guy
1235[10:39:12] <ayekat> as long as your wrench is longer than the other one's you'll be fine
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1237[10:39:28] <Haohmaru> vlt why does it matter?
1238[10:39:32] <ZaZaGX> how about a sword instead?
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1240[10:39:42] <vlt> Haohmaru: Because I'm curious ;)
1241[10:40:15] <Haohmaru> ZaZaGX a sword has non-sharp sides, wrench is moar effective at causing damage
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1244[10:40:54] <vlt> But a wrench is a double-edged sword. Wait ...
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1250[10:42:18] <Eryn_1983_FL> hmm ayekat pm me a recommendation on someone who does good contribution?
1251[10:42:18] <ZaZaGX> hmmm, i thought my debian machine is secured enough
1252[10:42:59] <ayekat> Eryn_1983_FL: the devs/packagers/mods/..., for a start :-)
1253[10:43:07] <ayekat> and everyone who collaborates with them
1254[10:43:27] <ayekat> (I think that's true for any distro/software, btw)
1255[10:43:29] <Eryn_1983_FL> lol do they make videos for me to watch?
1256[10:43:31] <ratrace> ZaZaGX: "enough" depends on the treat model. In my case for example, the LUKS based FDE I use is "enough" against petty theft of the drives or computers, by random theives who aren't government backed officials who otherwise have no interest in me.
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1261[10:44:26] <Haohmaru> i hide muh floppy disks in a smol black hole
1262[10:44:35] <Haohmaru> i don't know how to get them back
1263[10:46:54] <ZaZaGX> i think the police would want to search my laptop
1264[10:47:08] <Eryn_1983_FL> ok so how do i get my copy from urxvt into firefox paste?
1265[10:47:31] <Eryn_1983_FL> i need to be able to go from terminal to firefox, slack, and back again
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1268[10:48:25] <Eryn_1983_FL> ...
1269[10:48:30] <Eryn_1983_FL> ok i think i know the issue no xclip
1270[10:49:30] <ZaZaGX> how do i test the security on my debian machine?
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1272[10:50:04] <Eryn_1983_FL> hard a black hat to pwn you.
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1274[10:50:13] <Eryn_1983_FL> hire a black hat to pwn you.
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1278[10:50:54] <ZaZaGX> not sure if i trust them
1279[10:51:04] <Eryn_1983_FL> you shouldn't trust anybody.
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1284[10:54:11] <rephlexie> Is Lynis still a thing for auditing? Or were they bought by nessus?
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1286[10:54:49] <ZaZaGX> i use lynis
1287[10:54:50] <Eryn_1983_FL> so the clipboard for firefox copy/paste and slack is not the same for terminals.
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1290[10:56:07] <ayekat> terminals *generally* do not use the same keyboard shortcuts as GUIs
1291[10:56:43] <ayekat> ah wait, the clipboard? - there are the X11 primary/secondary selections, and the X11 clipboard
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1293[10:57:41] <Eryn_1983_FL> ..
1294[10:57:58] <Eryn_1983_FL> like i said i need to copy to and from for work stuff and play.
1295[10:58:36] <Eryn_1983_FL> it putting it somewhere different in memory i assume, so i need it in the same place so if i paste in slack and firefox its the same copy from terminal
1296[10:58:54] <Eryn_1983_FL> otherwise i am goiing to pull all my hair out in about a week of this bs.
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1299[11:00:05] <Eryn_1983_FL> i ok i tried setting it to primary that did not work
1300[11:00:06] <EdePopede> usually when i have to copy text i mark with the mouse and then midclick to insert. i think i started doing it because i don't want clipman's entries spammed by text (though i don't even notice that it's running most of the time) i'll propably never need again.
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1307[11:02:50] <Eryn_1983_FL> ok it seems to work from firefox to terminal but not the other way around.
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1316[11:09:56] <humpled> one is ctrl-v or ctrl-shift-v to paste, the other is double click or middle click to paste
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1323[11:12:18] <humpled> the clipboard is the same, if you copy to it, but things are entered in the X11 buffer just by highlighting them
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1330[11:15:38] <ayekat> ctrl-shift-v and ctrl-shift-c don't work in urxvt by default, because it's got an "ISO 14755 mode" (I believe it's mostly for inserting special characters or something)
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1332[11:16:46] <ratrace> yeah, shift+ins to paste, selection is copying
1333[11:17:05] <ratrace> there be perl plugins that introduce ctrl+shift and keyboard based copying functionality
1334[11:17:18] <BoyDoy> hi. iwant to ask how to open a port on debian 10? what the default firewall?
1335[11:17:38] <ratrace> BoyDoy: there is none, no port is filtered by default.
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1339[11:18:16] <BoyDoy> how can i allow port 8000 to replaced-url
1340[11:18:17] <Eryn_1983_FL> check the app armour is not enabled,
1341[11:18:28] <ratrace> apparmor doesn't filter ports
1342[11:18:33] <Eryn_1983_FL> ok m,
1343[11:18:35] <Eryn_1983_FL> nm
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1346[11:19:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1563
1347[11:19:06] <ayekat> BoyDoy: replaced-url
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1349[11:19:34] <ayekat> (as in "the phrase doesn't make sense", not "that's a bad idea")
1350[11:19:39] <BoyDoy> i type lsof -i -P -n | grep LISTEN but the replaced-url
1351[11:19:56] <snowdy> hii
1352[11:20:07] <ratrace> BoyDoy: there is no filtering by default. nothing to "open", they're all "open" (though that's wrong terminology, should be "filtered", as "opening" a port means listening on it)
1353[11:20:09] <d3lphi> hi all.I'd like to change a translation of a program. I can find a text file under /usr/share/locale/de/LC_MESSAGES/quota.raw but when I edit it it takes no effect.I see there is another file called quota.org which looks like a binary file to me.Is there any command I need to execute after modification of the .raw file to take effect?
1354[11:20:22] <ayekat> BoyDoy: (as root:) ss -tlpn
1355[11:20:53] <EdePopede> BoyDoy: sure that a httpd is running (using this account and/or port)?
1356[11:21:03] <snowdy> hey is this same as telegram?
1357[11:21:08] <ayekat> snowdy: no
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1359[11:21:40] <snowdy> then how to use this can you help me i am newbee for this
1360[11:21:45] <BoyDoy> @ayekat no replaced-url
1361[11:22:03] <ayekat> BoyDoy: yeah, but again - *processes* listen to ports, not users/groups
1362[11:22:22] <ayekat> BoyDoy: actually, it might help if you started by telling us your goal :-)
1363[11:22:37] <ayekat> because I feel like you've walked down the wrong path in an XY problem
1364[11:22:48] <ratrace> !xy
1365[11:22:48] <dpkg> Slow down for a bit! Are you sure that you need to jump through that particular hoop to achieve your goal? We suspect you don't, so why don't you back up a bit and tell us about the overall objective... We know that people often falsely diagnose problems because they are too close to them -- it's easy to miss that there is a better way to proceed. See replaced-url
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1367[11:23:19] <BoyDoy> i need to run apache
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1370[11:23:47] <BoyDoy> error say "Failed to restart The Apache HTTP service"
1371[11:24:06] <snowdy> i want to make server at home is it possible?
1372[11:24:38] <ayekat> snowdy: generally yes - but you have to be more specific than just "server"
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1375[11:25:08] <ayekat> there are file servers, web servers, mail servers, dns servers, chat servers, ...
1376[11:25:43] <snowdy> particularly dns and web
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1380[11:26:41] <colo-work> debian has all the software you need to make that happen packaged
1381[11:26:42] <EdePopede> BoyDoy: usually apache is started as a service and then switches to the user/group mentioned in its conffile (per default replaced-url
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1383[11:26:53] <ayekat> snowdy: only for network-internal use, or also to the outside? (the latter might be a bit trickier)
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1385[11:28:15] <snowdy> @ayekat firstly for the internal one
1386[11:28:50] <BoyDoy> ok itry other way
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1390[11:29:32] <humpled> oh thanks ayekat, often see urxvt recommended but when it makes such simple things non-default i think i'll leave it
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1393[11:30:17] <ayekat> eh, I usually don't care too much about defaults if the tool gives me reasonable means for changing them to what I need
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1396[11:31:33] <ayekat> I think it's more important what a tool is capable of doing, than what its defaults are (otherwise who would be using zsh?)
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1398[11:32:20] <ratrace> who *is* using zsh? *runs*
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1400[11:32:57] <colo-work> mostly inexperienced, macos-powered hipster web"devs"
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1402[11:33:23] <ayekat> meh - don't blame zsh for the sins of oh-my-zsh
1403[11:33:41] <colo-work> well I am doing it, and noone will stop me :>
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1405[11:33:58] <jelly> ratrace: people who needed a decent shell during bash 2.x and 3.x days
1406[11:34:18] <ratrace> I find bash quite decent
1407[11:34:25] <jelly> now, yes
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1409[11:34:45] <jelly> 15-20 years back, less so
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1412[11:37:21] <EdePopede> colo-work: thanks a lot for tue quotes
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1425[11:45:40] <Eryn_1983_FL> ok i fixed the copy and paste for terminator, i guess ill use that for now so i dont go nuts,
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1442[11:57:27] <NatalySisel> hi
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1444[11:58:44] <izake> hi all
1445[11:58:49] <izake> quick question
1446[11:59:05] <izake> we do automated installs via cobbler for debian9 and debian8
1447[11:59:30] <izake> for debian 9 when the installer reacher the scanning of disks, it doesn't pick up any of the disks
1448[11:59:43] <Krx8iSGWG> how can i install additional packages during installation? network-manager, for example.
1449[11:59:55] <izake> we already confirmed that the disks are present in the BIOS
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1452[12:02:49] <ratrace> Krx8iSGWG: you can always install packages after initial installation+reboot is complete
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1460[12:08:30] <Krx8iSGWG> ratrace: the problem is that networking doesn't work after reboot. i want to install network manager before that so i don't have to rig up something temporary using wpa_supplicant directly, only to undo it before configuring n
1461[12:08:34] <Krx8iSGWG> m
1462[12:09:19] <Krx8iSGWG> is there some way to chroot into the new install from a shell after the installer runs and apt install ?
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1466[12:10:53] <ratrace> Krx8iSGWG: I think that's possible yes. But uh, I still don't understand your use case. NM is installed wiht appropriate desktop environment already. If you're installing somethign else where NM is not native, then why install NM afterwards? Which DE/WM are you installing?
1467[12:11:18] <ratrace> Krx8iSGWG: "that's possible" = see maybe via an alternative TTY before the final reboot step
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1469[12:12:52] <ratrace> Krx8iSGWG: note also that you might need to solve the wifi firmware catch-22 first, in case you only have wifi and it requires firmware to operate.
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1477[12:16:26] <Krx8iSGWG> ratrace: initially i installed from a debian lxqt live image, but i couldn't get wifi to work. the drivers are supposedly in a kernel module that's loaded automatically. i finally installed nm by plugging into ethernet, but i'm trying to avoid this.
1478[12:17:13] <Krx8iSGWG> wifi works during installation
1479[12:17:32] <Krx8iSGWG> i'd like to get it working after install without plugging in
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1481[12:17:43] <ratrace> Krx8iSGWG: see this replaced-url
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1483[12:18:03] <Krx8iSGWG> firmware is okay, already in kernel
1484[12:18:04] <ratrace> if firmware/drivers are in question, then NM per se is not a solution
1485[12:18:14] <Krx8iSGWG> they aren't
1486[12:18:19] <Krx8iSGWG> they seem to work
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1488[12:18:30] <Krx8iSGWG> i just need a network config solution
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1492[12:19:30] <Krx8iSGWG> was thinking the solution was finding a way to install nm or conmann before reboot
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1494[12:19:42] <ratrace> Krx8iSGWG: try a chroot via another TTY
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1496[12:20:23] <Krx8iSGWG> so mount file system into mnt, chroot mnt, apt install?
1497[12:20:31] <ratrace> and beside maybe wpa_supplicant (if it's not installed as a dep of your DE/WM), you don't need anything else, it's a simple few-liner stanza in e/n/i: replaced-url
1498[12:21:08] <ratrace> Krx8iSGWG: I'd suggest setup full chroot, with bind-mounted /dev and /sys, mounted -t proc proc ; and anything else
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1557[12:58:00] <GrembleBean> Hi all, problem with upgrading to cyrus 3.x, Debian Buster. I was using proxyd and lmtpproxyd and they've both disappeared!
1558[12:58:20] <GrembleBean> any ideas?
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1566[13:01:10] <NetTerminalGene> do you guys install intel microcode for cpu vulnerabilities?
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1568[13:02:33] <Habbie> yes
1569[13:02:55] <GrembleBean> yes
1570[13:03:33] <NetTerminalGene> i didn'rt install it
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1600[13:18:40] <ayekat> savage
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1615[13:28:51] <FinalX> NetTerminalGene: Then I'd start real fast in doing so, and to stop telling people that you're vulnerable.
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1620[13:33:42] <tdn> I have installed memtest86+ in Debian 9. However, when I select memtest86+ in GRUB, I just get a blank Debian splash screen and a few pcspkr beeps. It does not show the usual memtest blue screen. I figure this is due to the splash screen being there. How to fix this?
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1670[13:51:35] <GrembleBean> So I fixed by Cyrus issue. I seems the packaged cyrus 2.5.x version ship with symlinks for proxyd and friends - but the 3.x versions don't.
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1673[13:52:17] <GrembleBean> tdn, Memtest86+ won't work on all systems.
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1677[13:53:49] <GrembleBean> try plain memtest86 tdn
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1680[13:54:38] <jmabsd> curious, i like to instruct my Debian machine that the default gateway (to reach the Internet, is that called the default route) is IP 1.2.3.4 on ETH0
1681[13:54:39] <jmabsd> how do i
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1689[13:59:24] <GrembleBean> depends how your networking is set up jmabsd
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1691[14:01:42] <jmabsd> GrembleBean: nothing special. seems the "gateway" in /etc/networking/interfaces suffices maybe
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1693[14:02:57] <GrembleBean> If that's how your networking is setup. Network-manager is also a possbility.
1694[14:03:36] <GrembleBean> for static setups I find /etc/networking/interfaces the simplest.
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1719[14:24:48] <tdn> GrembleBean, why wouldnt it work, though? This is a fairly new laptop.
1720[14:25:25] <tdn> GrembleBean, I am trying the old memtest86... But still, it should work with +, right?
1721[14:26:23] <tdn> GrembleBean, when trying the non plus version, GRUB says: error: file /memtest86.bin not found
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1731[14:32:15] <jmcnaught> tdn: as far as I know memtest86(+) only boot in legacy BIOS/CSM and not with UEFI. When I needed to use it recently I just used grml live disk. The memtest86 package description says a script is included to make a bootable image too.
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1754[14:47:16] * Haohmaru turns the saturation to 100% on greycat
1755[14:47:43] <ratrace> no good, the color bits are lost.
1756[14:48:07] <Haohmaru> the silly HSL algorithm will not care bout that
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1760[14:49:16] <ratrace> at best you'll get a monotone out of it
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1850[15:46:10] <pigeon123> Hello. My root user is umask 022. My administrator is 002. My normal account is 022. I didn't change the administrator mask. How?
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1852[15:46:42] <pigeon123> I know how to force umask 022 in the ~/.bashrc but I wonder why?
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1854[15:47:14] <greycat> Details. Every single detail. All the details. What is "my administrator", how did you log in as this user, what programs did you execute, ALL of them, to get to the point where you could see the umask value?
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1858[15:47:49] <pigeon123> umask 002 after su administrator. umask 002 after login Ctrl Alt F2
1859[15:47:49] <Release_> greetz whats the name for these packages htmlparse , tdom ?
1860[15:47:54] <greycat> A umask value is part of the execution environment of a PROCESS. It is not "assigned" to a "user".
1861[15:47:59] <Release_> the proper package name
1862[15:48:14] <pigeon123> Release_: packages.debian.org
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1864[15:48:36] <Release_> im there pigeon123
1865[15:48:50] <Release_> was looking there couldnt figure so i thougt id ask here
1866[15:49:03] <greycat> So you logged in as some user, let's call it "pigeon", using... let's make MORE GUESSES, SHALL WE, because you didn't LISTEN TO ME. Let's guess that you logged in as pigeon using lightdm, and this gave you an xfce session, and inside this session you opened an xterm and inside this xterm, you typed "su administrator", and inside that shell, you typed "umask".
1867[15:49:08] <pigeon123> Release_: Did you search package description?
1868[15:49:22] <Release_> no
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1870[15:49:25] <Release_> how does that work
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1875[15:51:44] <greycat> Running su uses the PAM configuration in /etc/pam.d/su which does all *kinds* of crap, including reading "default umask" values from /etc/login.defs. Then it run a NON-login shell as the target user, which will read one or more dot files depending on which shell it is.
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1877[15:52:23] <ratrace> Release_: in what context are those packages? did you try running "apt search htmlparse"?
1878[15:52:26] <pigeon123> Perhaps there is in /etc/ a umask just for my admin?
1879[15:52:32] <greycat> NO
1880[15:52:39] <greycat> It does not WORK LIKE THATR
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1882[15:52:48] <greycat> umasks are set by PROCESSES, not ASSINGED TO USERS
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1884[15:53:01] <greycat> God, why do I bother.
1885[15:53:19] * pigeon123 prays for greycat
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1890[15:54:13] <greycat> If you want to figure out ALL of the steps that could possibly affect the umask value between process A (your xterm) and process B (your bash shell running inside su inside said xterm), you need to dig down through EVERY single freaking layer, and most of them are not documented anywhere you can find.
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1892[15:55:02] <greycat> I've named some of them already -- /etc/pam.d/su and /etc/login.defs. If your target user's shell is bash, then also ~administrator/.bashrc and /etc/bash.bashrc would be places to look.
1893[15:56:03] <pigeon123> I found something in login.defs about 002
1894[15:56:07] <greycat> I don't even know all of the other things that pam.d/su looks at, because every single line is a new nightmare of digging and pain.
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1897[15:57:16] <pigeon123> USERGROUPS_ENAB I just wonder why that only affects one user.
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1899[15:57:48] <greycat> It's far more likely it's in that user's .bashrc.
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1901[15:58:53] <pigeon123> For what it's worth, I check the umask in /etc/profile where for that user it is 002
1902[15:59:31] <greycat> "su administrator" shouldn't read /etc/profile as far as I'm aware. "su - administrator" would.
1903[15:59:34] <greycat> Details.
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1905[15:59:44] <Release_> tnx ratrace
1906[15:59:45] <greycat> Every. Single. Detail. Matters.
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1912[16:02:54] <pigeon123> replaced-url
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1917[16:06:31] <mackerel449> i can't reach gdm without "nomodeset" on a ryzen raven ridge apu, 5.2 backported kernel with no out-of-tree packages
1918[16:07:04] <mackerel449> it's stuck on a low resolution
1919[16:07:19] <mackerel449> ^ with "nomodeset"
1920[16:07:52] <pigeon123> Nice CPU
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1924[16:09:00] <pigeon123> mackerel449: Are you using AMD driver?
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1927[16:09:45] <mackerel449> it's a ryzen 3 2200G
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1929[16:11:07] <mackerel449> lsmod lists "amdgpu"
1930[16:11:20] <pigeon123> Kernel is GPL but somehow they allow private drivers. I don't understand
1931[16:12:07] <pigeon123> I suppose there is no "they"
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1933[16:12:32] <greycat> !taint
1934[16:12:32] <dpkg> Tainted is the state of your Linux kernel when non-free drivers (e.g. <fglrx>, <nvidia>, <slamr>, <slusb>, <wl>) or <ndiswrapper> are loaded into it. Kernel hackers and the Debian kernel team will not support tainted kernels. If /proc/sys/kernel/tainted has a non-zero value, the running kernel is tainted. replaced-url
1935[16:12:32] <mackerel449> "firmware-amd-graphics" is installed
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1939[16:13:16] <mackerel449> dmesg has this line: amdgpu 0000:07:00.0: HDMI-A-1: EDID is invalid: <bunch of hex> and [drm:dc_link_detect [amdgpu]] *ERROR* No EDID read.
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1941[16:13:29] <pigeon123> EDID is the monitor
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1945[16:17:47] <EdePopede> and i've read that this message is pretty normal because the manufacturers simply don't care
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1947[16:18:21] <pigeon123> EdePopede: Perhaps the manuf. only wants their own driver
1948[16:18:53] <EdePopede> pigeon123: ah, i meant the monitors :)
1949[16:19:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1584
1950[16:19:04] <omajid> hey folks. i come from rpm land and have a question about debian packages. rpm packages have a concept of directory ownership. for example the 'filesystem' package owns the directory /usr/bin. Is there an analogue in debian?
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1952[16:20:19] <pigeon123> Well, a user owns a directory... dpkg works like: rmdir unless it's empty
1953[16:20:25] <pigeon123> rmdir if it's empty
1954[16:20:29] <EdePopede> omajid: you could do something like `dpkg -S /usr/bin` which gives you a list of packages which include a specific file
1955[16:21:26] <omajid> EdePopede: ah, so i packages can own/provide files, but not directories? got it.
1956[16:21:31] <omajid> s/i packages/packages/
1957[16:21:33] <EdePopede> omajid: and then there's `dpkg -L $pck` to get the filelist from a package
1958[16:21:47] <omajid> thanks!
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1962[16:21:59] <tdn> jmcnaught, oh. I am not sure I use UEFI. How do I check?
1963[16:22:00] <_aeris_> hello here!
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1966[16:22:12] <pigeon123> tdn, BIOS
1967[16:22:26] <_aeris_> "
1968[16:22:27] <_aeris_> E: Method store has died unexpectedly!
1969[16:22:29] <_aeris_> E: Sub-process store received a segmentation fault.
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1971[16:22:42] <_aeris_> does this message tell something to anybody ? :s
1972[16:22:48] <_aeris_> on apt update
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1974[16:22:58] <pigeon123> _aeris_: I'm a programmer... That might mean out of memory
1975[16:22:58] <_aeris_> no way to use this command, each time got this error…
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1977[16:23:18] <jelly> omajid: the directory is initially created by unpacking the base-files package, but there's no explicit dir ownership. Instead, every package that ships /usr/bin/foo also contains directories /, /usr, and /usr/bin
1978[16:23:23] <_aeris_> 3.8Go free memory
1979[16:23:46] <EdePopede> well not own. look debian packages are in the end good old .ar archives with a data tarball and a controll tarball
1980[16:23:48] <jelly> omajid: (ok, some do not contain /)
1981[16:23:54] <omajid> jelly: thanks. in a way, that makes complete sense
1982[16:23:57] <nvz> tdn: sudo dmidecode | nc termbin.com 9999
1983[16:24:15] <jelly> it was probably the simplest thing that would work
1984[16:24:40] <ratrace> also good for chroots
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1987[16:25:09] <jelly> omajid: this also means that you can basically replace almost any directory with a symlink to a copy (or mved) with same contents and still keep dpkg happy
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1989[16:25:31] <pigeon123> ratrace: What's good for chroots?
1990[16:25:55] <ratrace> that each package lists the directory structure it needs + what jelly just said as there's no dir ownership
1991[16:25:56] <jelly> problems would appear only if you removed the last package shipping that dir, only symlink would disappear
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1993[16:26:34] <zerox2a> how can I change the default keyboard layout / keymap of a specific user on a debian 10 server? I know how to change the default / system wide keyboard layout but this is not what I want. I would like the specific user to have a different layout
1994[16:26:39] <pigeon123> ratrace: Have you ever chroot then connect to X using UNIX domain socket?
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1996[16:26:49] <ratrace> pigeon123: yes
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1999[16:27:13] <jelly> zerox2a: how do they log in? Console? GUI (gdm/sddm)?
2000[16:27:18] <pigeon123> ratrace: How does that socket work?
2001[16:27:26] <zerox2a> @jelly console only
2002[16:27:32] <ratrace> pigeon123: what do you mean?
2003[16:27:39] <jelly> zerox2a: then no way that I know of.
2004[16:27:41] <pigeon123> I mean, the chroot can't see /tmp/
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2009[16:28:08] <greycat> you could re-mount /tmp inside the chroot
2010[16:28:18] <ratrace> pigeon123: bind mount /tmp/.X11-unix into the chroot
2011[16:28:19] <jelly> zerox2a: a user logged in at the console can run loadkeys [some keymap], but that makes the change persist on console until reboot
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2013[16:28:55] <pigeon123> I know how to mount a HDD in two places... I just wonder about my /tmp because it is tmpfs
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2015[16:29:21] <ratrace> pigeon123: bind-mount, and you only need the .X11-unix dir
2016[16:29:29] <jelly> pigeon123: you can bind-mount /tmp/.X11-unix if you need to
2017[16:29:31] <zerox2a> jelly: yes, I know of loadkeys and use it currently. I think I will just change the system wide keymap temporarily as I am the only one currently working on the server until it will be returned to the customer. Thanks for your time!
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2023[16:32:15] <you_FAIL> hi
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2026[16:33:29] <pigeon123> Is bind-mount on man mount?
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2028[16:33:50] <greycat> search for "bind"
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2030[16:35:33] <pigeon123> My idea is to install Ubuntu then clear sources.list, then chroot install Debian
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2032[16:36:13] <ratrace> "install Ubuntu" .... ight imma head out
2033[16:36:27] <nvz> pigeon123: schroot
2034[16:36:40] <nvz> pigeon123: it does all this for you
2035[16:36:43] *** Joins: thePiGrepper (~nagato@replaced-ip)
2036[16:36:56] <nvz> ,i schroot
2037[16:36:58] <judd> Package schroot (admin, optional) in buster/amd64: Execute commands in a chroot environment. Version: 1.6.10-6+b1; Size: 777.2k; Installed: 2728k; Homepage: replaced-url
2038[16:37:03] <jelly> pigeon123: you can use debootstrap from any linux to set up a chroot with debian in it. schroot is one of nicer wrappers for debootstrap.
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2041[16:37:28] <nvz> o.O
2042[16:37:58] <greycat> replaced-url
2043[16:38:02] <nvz> idk that I'd call schroot a wrapper for debootstrap, it doesn't really have anything to do with debootstrap
2044[16:38:17] <greycat> Official Instructions for debootstrap
2045[16:38:32] <ayekat> isn't schroot simply for being able to chroot without requiring root permissions?
2046[16:38:35] <nvz> its just a command that allows running things inside a chroot as a normal user and does some extra stuff like setting up the environment
2047[16:39:10] <nvz> i.e. won't have to play with xauth and bind mounts and crap, it can take care of all that
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2053[16:42:09] <nvz> I personally have only used it with debootstrap, to run things from other branches, but its not really dependant upon or interfaces with that in any way
2054[16:43:25] <Akuw> rsync doesnt allow to copy from one remote to another remote?
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2058[16:43:45] <Akuw> The source and destination cannot both be remote
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2064[16:45:49] <Habbie> Akuw, indeed
2065[16:45:52] <nvz> they can, you just can't initiate it from local, without wrapping it in an ssh or other such command
2066[16:46:03] <Habbie> Akuw, but if you can log in to one of the machines, maybe you can rsync from there to the other one
2067[16:46:13] <Habbie> 'scp' has some magic to pipe everything through the local machine - rsync does not have that magic
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2070[16:48:20] <nvz> scp -o magic then@miracle:occurs ...
2071[16:48:22] *** Quits: pigeon123 (~winlibre@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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2074[16:50:15] <Habbie> hehe
2075[16:50:17] <Habbie> it's scp -3
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2078[16:50:45] *** Joins: Matt12345 (~Matt12345@replaced-ip)
2079[16:50:59] * nvz thinks . o O ( replaced-url
2080[16:51:42] <Habbie> haha
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2082[16:53:24] <han-solo> nvz: Thank you :)
2083[16:53:26] <han-solo> I needed it
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2085[16:53:40] <Lope> ratrace, are you around bud?
2086[16:54:07] <Lope> I've finally got time to setup my new server with dropbear
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2094[16:57:29] <ratrace> Lope: Im on my way out, I'll be back a bit later
2095[16:57:41] <Lope> ratrace, okay before you run, do you have a link for me
2096[16:57:46] <Lope> for a guide on setting up dropbear?
2097[16:58:25] <Lope> of course when I do the final reboot on the remote server, it's quite important to know that the dropbear SSH server will be accessible and work properly
2098[16:58:31] *** Quits: hqdruxn08__ (hqdruxn08@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2099[16:58:45] <Lope> But I'm going to test by practising on a VM.
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2104[16:59:25] <tdn> nvz, I will not blindly paste sensitive data to a public pastebin. I would advise against encouraging this behavior.
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2107[17:00:03] <ratrace> Lope: I don't, but there are a few steps you need to do: setup authorized_keys (in dropbear's format with dropbearconver) and set up networking via initramfs.conf
2108[17:00:39] <Lope> ratrace, fair enough, thanks for the tips. Okay well I'll look for a guide. In the mean time I'm getting started on setting up the VM.
2109[17:00:41] <LtL> tdn: did you resolve your libreoffice issue?
2110[17:00:58] <tdn> LtL, no :(
2111[17:01:20] *** Joins: enoq (~enoq@replaced-ip)
2112[17:01:23] <tdn> LtL, I gave up following umpteen levels of conflicts/dependencies
2113[17:01:41] *** Joins: MenschZwoNull (~MenschZwo@replaced-ip)
2114[17:01:51] <ratrace> Lope: this is the initramfs network setup from our ansible plays. Guess you'll figure out what goes where: replaced-url
2115[17:01:56] *** Quits: EmleyMoor (42b789682f@replaced-ip) (Quit: Gateway shutdown)
2116[17:01:58] <LtL> tdn: that's unfortunate
2117[17:02:09] <tdn> Yeah
2118[17:02:12] <Lope> ratrace, ah, amazing, thanks
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2120[17:02:23] <LtL> tdn: i know it's repairable.
2121[17:02:27] <ratrace> Lope: that's /etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d/irrelevant-name.conf
2122[17:03:08] *** Quits: rany (~rany@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2129[17:04:13] <ratrace> Lope: and these two from the installation script: replaced-url
2130[17:04:28] *** argusbr is now known as argus
2131[17:04:29] <ratrace> that's pretty much it for that part of initramfs.
2132[17:04:31] <ratrace> gtg now
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2134[17:04:57] *** argus is now known as Guest75147
2135[17:05:46] <tdn> LtL, yeah, I just spent way too much time on it. and I kinda fear breaking something.
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2142[17:09:01] <nvz> tdn: dmidecode -t 0 then, or just figure it out yourself, or wear a tin foil hat :P
2143[17:09:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1578
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2146[17:09:39] <nvz> unless you have active remote accessible code in your BIOS there is nothing sensitive about that information
2147[17:10:11] *** Joins: twobitsprite (~isaac@replaced-ip)
2148[17:10:34] <tdn> nvz, lots of uniqe info, though.
2149[17:10:42] *** Joins: combro2k (~combro2k@replaced-ip)
2150[17:10:46] *** Joins: EmleyMoor (42b789682f@replaced-ip)
2151[17:10:55] <tdn> (that might doxx someone)
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2154[17:12:30] <nvz> yes well short of a whole lot of people helping me design a new support interface that takes these sorts of things into account, there is no way to provide support without providing information.. so people either need to figure it out themselves or leave their foil hats outside :P
2155[17:12:43] <nvz> and I've already proposed just such a system
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2160[17:13:32] <nvz> in this case dmidecode -t 0 | grep -i uefi would've sufficed
2161[17:13:48] <nvz> /probably/
2162[17:14:05] <nvz> problem is the information dmidecode provides is highly inconsistent
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2168[17:15:32] <nvz> we /could/ narrow down the information we request more.. but that requires more knowledge on the supporters end, longer more complex commands, and risk of excluding important information that may leave people chasing wild geese
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2178[17:24:27] <NetTerminalGene> why is most distros based off debian?
2179[17:24:42] *** Joins: YesMan (Rubafix@replaced-ip)
2180[17:24:47] <greycat> because Debian doesn't suck?
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2193[17:29:30] <sangy> how does a user "confirm" that they want to update their testing version from buster to bullseye? I don't see any specific instructions on /etc/apt/preferences or /etc/apt/sources.list
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2196[17:30:00] <greycat> run "apt update" instead of "apt-get update"
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2198[17:30:19] <sangy> ah, cool. Sorry I should get used to apt by now...
2199[17:30:23] <greycat> or at least that's my guess, based on the steps required to upgrade from buster-as-testing to buster-as-stable
2200[17:30:36] <sangy> yeah, you were right
2201[17:30:43] *** Quits: Rutice (~Rutice@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2202[17:30:46] <sangy> so should I just drop the usage of apt-get altogether?
2203[17:31:03] <sangy> > Segmentation faultsts... 0%
2204[17:31:06] <sangy> :[
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2213[17:33:40] <Akuw> can i use rsync to sync many sources and many destinations?
2214[17:33:55] <jelly> Akuw: one destination maximum per command.
2215[17:34:10] <Akuw> i mean, i want to sync dir/ dir2/ dir3/ to dir1/ dir2/ dir3/
2216[17:34:17] <Akuw> upsss
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2218[17:34:40] <Akuw> then start a new connection for every sync right?
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2221[17:35:26] <jelly> probably, unless all the sources have the same parent and all the destinations have the same parent and you can use excludes to avoid everything around
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2224[17:36:24] <rkeene> Anyone a debian package maintainer looking for a new package to adopt ? I submitted a new package ( replaced-url
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2227[17:38:03] <somiaj> rkeene: are you wanting to create and matain that package? Or just waiting for someone else to pick it up?
2228[17:38:16] <rkeene> Ideally someone who is already maintaining some Debian packages would pick it up
2229[17:38:31] <rkeene> I already have some other open source software that's in Debian as well
2230[17:38:57] <jelly> the maintainer would preferably actually _use_ the software
2231[17:39:24] <rkeene> I'm more than happy to mail the maintainer a card and reader
2232[17:39:29] <somiaj> Then you just need to wait for someone who wants to. If you wanted to create a package and matain it, then you would just need to find a sponsor to upload it to debian.
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2235[17:40:14] *** Joins: e_is_a_queer (~winner@replaced-ip)
2236[17:40:24] <e_is_a_queer> e sucks underage pussy
2237[17:40:26] <e_is_a_queer> e sucks underage pussy
2238[17:40:26] <e_is_a_queer> e sucks underage pussy
2239[17:40:28] <e_is_a_queer> lol
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2242[17:41:25] <rkeene> somiaj, I'm motivated to help someone want to do it, so I can stop maintaining my own debian packages for it (which really I just convert from RPMs -- to the detriment of Debian users)
2243[17:42:30] <rkeene> ( replaced-url
2244[17:42:41] *** Joins: e_hates_jews (~Antifa@replaced-ip)
2245[17:42:47] <e_hates_jews> e is a klansman
2246[17:43:04] <e_hates_jews> we should take a vote to ban the racist
2247[17:43:07] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o jelly
2248[17:43:10] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o somiaj
2249[17:43:10] <e_hates_jews> go to #freenode
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2251[17:43:11] *** somiaj sets mode: +b *!*@a9.5a.39a9.ip4.static.sl-reverse.com
2252[17:43:11] *** somiaj sets mode: -o somiaj
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2254[17:43:29] *** jelly sets mode: +q e_*!*@*
2255[17:43:33] *** ChanServ sets mode: -o jelly
2256[17:43:34] <sangy> jelly: thanks
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2260[17:44:03] <rkeene> Also, it's pretty mature software at this point so shouldn't be too much work for a maintainer
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2263[17:45:05] <Antifascism> why is freenode controlled by the racist confederate nazi klan?
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2275[17:48:08] <sangy> has anybody ran into this?
2276[17:48:10] <sangy> E: Failed to fetch replaced-url
2277[17:48:17] <greycat> !debian-next
2278[17:48:18] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
2279[17:48:35] <sangy> greycat: oh thanks
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2286[17:53:07] <aleph-> Is there a dry-run option for `apt --fix-broken install`
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2289[17:53:51] <jelly> no idea about apt, but a -s or --dry-run can be added to apt-get -f install
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2292[17:54:15] <mackerel449> why is raven ridge still broken with 5.2 kernel? it barely works with "nomodeset"
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2297[17:56:57] <jelly> mackerel449: that's probably a question for the (upstream) kernel people, not necessarily the distro
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2306[18:03:22] <buttsexlol> hello
2307[18:03:41] <buttsexlol> e mniip \emph{grumble}
2308[18:03:48] <buttsexlol> you gonna ban me again?
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2310[18:03:59] <buttsexlol> what you gonna do?
2311[18:04:05] <buttsexlol> im waiting
2312[18:04:10] <buttsexlol> come and get me niggers
2313[18:04:12] <buttsexlol> come and get me niggers
2314[18:04:13] <buttsexlol> come and get me niggers
2315[18:04:15] <buttsexlol> come and get me niggers
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2317[18:04:24] <FinalX> was gonna say, keep going and it'll fix itself
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2326[18:09:47] <AndroUser> Hello
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2351[18:20:46] <Lope> ratrace, are you around bud?
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2356[18:24:17] <Lope> anyone here want to chat about dropbear and full disk encryption on a remote server?\
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2359[18:25:20] * nvz chirps
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2375[18:31:24] <Lope> crickets?
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2381[18:37:29] <tdn> Virtualbox just stopped working after installing recent upgrades available to Debian 9? When I start a VM, it says: "error in supr3hardenedmain" "failed to open a session for the virtual machine" "Effective UID is not root" "please try reinstalling virtualbox". I have already tried doing apt install --reinstall virtualbox-6.0 but this does not solve it.
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2392[18:41:58] <tdn> I recently had to move /usr to a different volume. On that volume, I changed mount options to include nosuid
2393[18:42:02] <tdn> This was the cause...
2394[18:42:55] <ratrace> Lope: yea
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2398[18:45:38] <avalchev> tdn, I don't think that VirtualBox is going to work on Debian anymore. Use qemu.
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2401[18:46:47] <avalchev> tdn, you can check here: replaced-url
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2404[18:47:42] <tdn> avalchev, ok. Can qemu do the same? Last I tried qemu it was a huge pain to get windows guests to work correctly
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2417[18:56:47] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o eir
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2422[18:59:01] <Mathisen> ,v zsh
2423[18:59:02] <judd> Package: zsh on amd64 -- jessie: 5.0.7-5+b1; stretch: 5.3.1-4+b3; bullseye: 5.7.1-1; buster: 5.7.1-1; sid: 5.7.1-1
2424[18:59:25] *** Joins: toxync12 (~toxync12@replaced-ip)
2425[19:00:04] * nvz uses Virtualbox 6.0 on Buster without a problem
2426[19:00:26] *** Joins: phaseNi (~phaset@replaced-ip)
2427[19:00:53] <nvz> I actually just upgraded to 6.0.12 a couple days ago
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2435[19:10:37] <Akuw> i am running rsync but in subfolders it adds foldername? "?"
2436[19:10:40] <Akuw> why?
2437[19:10:46] <SerajewelKS> vbox isn't in the official buster repo. i took that opportunity to learn kvm.
2438[19:10:56] <Akuw> rsync -r origin destination
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2442[19:16:18] <lavendereyes> qemu/kvm + virt-manager is a great replacement for virtualbox, but i feel bridged networking is a bit harder with qemu/kvm
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2447[19:19:13] <SerajewelKS> lavendereyes: you have to set up a bridge interface, yes. i already have one for a VPN though.
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2449[19:19:31] <SerajewelKS> the way virtualbox does bridged networking is a bit odd, it basically sniffs an existing physical network and injects packets into it
2450[19:19:36] <SerajewelKS> it doesn't use a real bridge
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2471[19:29:52] <lavendereyes> right, once it's done it works, but it's a little messy in my opinion when setting it up the first time
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2474[19:31:04] <lavendereyes> in my case i have a sample /etc/network/interfaces that does the job
2475[19:32:07] <lavendereyes> but this method doesn't seem to be possible over wireless networking
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2481[19:35:29] <Akuw> i am running rsync but in subfolders it adds foldername? "?"
2482[19:35:32] <Akuw> rsync -r origin destination
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2485[19:36:11] <humbot> trailing slash is significant with rsync Akuw
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2488[19:36:32] <Akuw> i am using it
2489[19:36:36] <hop> trailing slashes really are significant everywhere
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2493[19:37:17] <greycat> *very* much so in rsync. less so in most other places.
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2495[19:37:29] <hop> Akuw: where are you using the slash?
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2497[19:38:09] <Akuw> i am using ---> rsync -r /path/folder/ user@192.168.22.250:/home/my/folder/
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2499[19:38:23] <velix> For about 4 months, I'm using `apt` now. Is `apt` older or newer als `apt-get` or `aptitude` ?
2500[19:38:28] <nvz> kudos to those who pry.. I read the question twice now and ignored it.. heh.. cause I knew they were lying
2501[19:38:28] <hop> Akuw: and what's the result?
2502[19:38:42] <hop> Akuw: /home/my/folder/folder ?
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2505[19:39:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1578
2506[19:39:04] <hop> .oO(please don't call directories folders)
2507[19:39:09] <Akuw> this create /home/my/folder/somefolder?
2508[19:39:22] <hop> Akuw: certainly not
2509[19:39:26] <Akuw> one ? at the end of subfolder
2510[19:39:42] <hop> Akuw: it can't be somefolder. there was no some in you commandline
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2512[19:40:29] <Akuw> because rsync is creating the origin folder
2513[19:40:40] <Akuw> that folders doesnt exist in destination
2514[19:40:41] <blizzow> Is there some massive push or coordinated project to get debian off python 2.x?
2515[19:40:49] <hop> Akuw: cd to the original's parent directory and `ls -d folder | xxd`
2516[19:40:55] <hop> what's the output
2517[19:40:56] <hop> ?
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2521[19:41:55] <Akuw> i am suing cygwin
2522[19:42:12] <hop> yeah, they should be sued
2523[19:42:52] <greycat> blizzow: yes, there is a "python 2 removal" transition in bullseye
2524[19:42:52] <hop> Akuw: i think we misunderstood you… is there directory /path/folder/somefolder in the original?
2525[19:43:22] <greycat> replaced-url
2526[19:44:00] <Habbie> greycat, wow :(
2527[19:44:01] <Akuw> yes
2528[19:44:03] <Habbie> greycat, that's a lot of work
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2530[19:44:32] <nvz> Akuw: replaced-url
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2534[19:45:16] <hop> Akuw: this is not #cygwin, you know… but there is an xxd package for cygwin
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2536[19:45:45] <greycat> are Akuw and wwilliam twins separated at birth?
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2538[19:46:12] <XLS202> Hey, I have a problem with my network speed in one direction. I can recvive data from the server with nearly on 110mb/s but then i want to transmit to the server the speed drops to about 70mb/s. My server has Debian 9 with a back portet kernal, the problem appeard as I switched the mainboard. Has anyone an idea how to trouble shoot it?
2539[19:46:13] <Akuw> hehehehe
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2542[19:46:57] <Akuw> the sync is working fine from debian to windows, but when do from windows to linux i got that issue
2543[19:47:32] <hop> Akuw: just run the hexdump on the filename
2544[19:48:09] <greycat> since Windows has been invoked in this problem, the immediate step is to check for carriage returns in the input file(s)
2545[19:49:00] <greycat> there are dozens of ways to do that, from real vi (not vim, unless you configure vim to stop "helping") to sed -n l to cat -vtue ...
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2548[19:49:39] <hop> the issue is with the file name
2549[19:50:08] <greycat> a file name taken from an actual directory? or a file name taken from a text file?
2550[19:50:17] <Akuw> no
2551[19:50:21] <Akuw> is with dir name
2552[19:50:35] <Akuw> this name is created with ? at the end
2553[19:50:49] <hop> Akuw: can you please. just. check. the original.
2554[19:51:13] <greycat> last I heard from this person, there was a text file full of file names
2555[19:51:21] <Akuw> wait
2556[19:51:33] <greycat> I did not even bother asking why.
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2558[19:51:45] <hop> greycat: last the rest of us heard they did a simple rsync -r
2559[19:51:47] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o eir
2560[19:51:48] *** eir sets mode: -bo *!*@a9.5a.39a9.ip4.static.sl-reverse.com eir
2561[19:51:56] <Akuw> upsss
2562[19:51:59] <Akuw> i saw
2563[19:52:23] <hop> the suspense is killing me…
2564[19:52:55] <Akuw> the problem is the script was created in sublime, so when i get sync from bedian the script adds '$'\r'
2565[19:53:05] <Akuw> at the end of each dir
2566[19:53:23] <Akuw> then when i sync from windows to debian got same folder name
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2570[19:54:46] <karlpinc> XLS202: The first question is: how do you know? You can use flood pings, both with and without a full IP payload. You can use ttcp.
2571[19:55:10] <karlpinc> XLS202: Also, look at the kernel logs and see if it wants some non-free firmware, or has some other issue.
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2575[19:55:46] <Akuw> greycat: the problem is editor and cygwin
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2580[19:56:28] <karlpinc> XLS202: Depending on the board a newer kernel could be tried. Either from backports or just upgrade to buster. Since you're going to have to upgrade anway sooner or later that might be a good first step. Who knows whether what you'd have to do to fix it would be different on buster.
2581[19:57:18] <karlpinc> XLS202: Er, I guess nttcp these days.
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2588[20:00:22] <XLS202> karlpinc: Also i tried it with a filetransfer to windows (multiple PCs) and iperf. And I want to upgrade the server, but i wanted to fix it till i have time for it.
2589[20:00:47] <XLS202> karlpinc: And I use a newer kernel from the backports
2590[20:01:16] <gdarko> is systemd network by default the new networking for debian 10?
2591[20:01:22] <greycat> no.
2592[20:01:35] <greycat> /etc/network/interfaces is still the norm
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2594[20:02:36] <gdarko> So i installed Debian 10.1 buster and it looks like it is disabled, isn't it?
2595[20:02:37] <gdarko> replaced-url
2596[20:02:58] <gdarko> This is minimal image on dedicated server
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2600[20:06:26] <hop> doesn't say it is disabled
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2655[20:38:47] <shtrb> Are crontab scripts discouraged this days ?
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2657[20:38:58] <greycat> no
2658[20:39:00] <filpAM> How to install wine32 on debian 64?
2659[20:39:22] <filpAM> only the wine64 packages are visible
2660[20:39:32] <shtrb> thanks greycat
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2664[20:40:53] <shtrb> filepAM , dpkg --add-archtecture i386 ,replaced-url
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2668[20:43:21] <greycat> Speaking of which, does anyone actually understand systemd timers, and unattended-upgrades? I cannot make any sense of this: replaced-url
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2670[20:44:01] <greycat> Why does it say "Adding ___ random time" twice, at varying times each day?
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2673[20:44:58] <diogenes_> for me the answe is short, i always disable thomse services :)
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2675[20:45:03] <diogenes_> answer*
2676[20:45:35] <EdePopede> i read something (unrelated to systemd) about this behaviour, it is to prevent execution at exact the same time to avoid an attack vector for known timings for high cpu loads.
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2678[20:45:39] <filpAM> shtrb: Will it work too if I download the wine32 dpkg file and install it, so I dont need to specify my apt listing to include i386 packages?
2679[20:45:55] <shtrb> !frankestien
2680[20:46:28] <greycat> EdePopede: yes, got that, understand the GOAL, but why the hell does it run TWO TIMES at 06:06 on day 1, then TWO MORE TIMES at 06:36 on day 2, each time saying it's adding some time? I would expect to see it run ONCE at 06:06 or whatever every day.
2681[20:46:29] <shtrb> filpAM, you are about to have bad time if you start getting packages from the web, using multiarch is a pain in itself if done inproperly
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2685[20:47:41] <greycat> the unit file says OnCalendar=*-*-* 6,18:00 RandomizedDelaySec=12h
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2687[20:48:10] <greycat> well, one of them does. the other one says OnCalendar=*-*-* 6:00 RandomizedDelaySec=60m
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2690[20:49:19] <greycat> and even then I could think, "Hmm, maybe the log file shows the results *after* the addition of random time, not before", but then why does it say it's ADDING time at the END of the randomized interval, and why does it shows up TWICE, with each instance adding a different amount of random time?
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2728[21:12:22] <at0m> greycat: for one, they're different activities - "apt-daily-upgrade.timer - Daily apt upgrade and clean activities" and "apt-daily.timer - Daily apt download activities"
2729[21:12:39] <greycat> yes, I'm looking at each .timer separately
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2732[21:13:05] <greycat> although obviously they are related to each other, and the lack of symmetry or synchronization between them is laughable and stupid
2733[21:13:50] <at0m> right, they could be executed in sequence. apt update, download and upgrade, then clean
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2752[21:27:13] <greycat> replaced-url
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2758[21:31:00] <greycat> and someone added a similar report as a random comment after bug #600262 was already closed
2759[21:31:02] <judd> Bug replaced-url
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2768[21:37:39] <greycat> also reported as replaced-url
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2772[21:38:30] <AnnaSesli> hi
2773[21:38:45] <AnnaSesli> Hiii
2774[21:39:28] *** Joins: pclover (~pclover@replaced-ip)
2775[21:39:52] <pclover> So i upgraded from Debian 9 to 10 and the show-desktop-icons switch isn't working in dconf editor any ideas?
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2777[21:40:33] <towo`> pclover, and you speak about gnome?
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2779[21:40:40] <pclover> yes
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2781[21:41:37] <towo`> pclover, and you have gnome-tweak-tool installed?
2782[21:41:47] <pclover> should let me verify
2783[21:42:35] <pclover> hum i actually didn't weird
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2793[21:44:53] <pclover> i am using gnome in classic mode
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2797[21:45:46] <pclover> replaced-url
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2807[21:49:23] <maxtim> I have debian server with samba shares connected to an ubuntu server install on a rasp pi. I'm using fstab to auto mount the share using cifs. Something I noticed today is that the permissions are different on the UbuBox compared to the DebBox. I'm positive this is a smb.conf issue. What might I be doing wrong?
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2812[21:52:47] <somiaj> maxtim: samba doesn't do pure unix permissions with shares (it does permisions like windows users would use)
2813[21:52:55] <pclover> towo`, figured it out it was moved to an extension that has to be installed.
2814[21:53:08] <somiaj> maxtim: Often times with cifs these permisions can be controled with uid=,gid=,fmask=,dmask= options added to the mount.
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2816[21:53:11] <AnnaSesli> benpro Sex Dating ;) >>> replaced-url
2817[21:53:19] <greycat> if you're sharing stuff between unix systems and expect unix permissions/ownerships to be retained, consider using NFS instead of CIFS
2818[21:53:38] <maxtim> perfect, thanks somiaj
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2822[21:54:38] <maxtim> greycat, is there a way to use NFS and CIFS in conjunction?
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2825[21:54:51] <maxtim> my guess is no...
2826[21:54:56] <greycat> They're separate, but you can use both if you wish.
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2828[21:55:03] <AnnaSesli> Bercik Sex Dating ;) >>> replaced-url
2829[21:55:14] <greycat> We have systems here that share directories with NFS to unix client, and with Samba to Windows clients.
2830[21:55:23] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o greycat
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2833[21:56:06] <maxtim> time to pull out the trusty O'Reilly text book
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2837[21:58:14] <gdarko> is it possible to switch away from systemd networking?
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2840[21:59:17] <gdarko> the interfaces on my end is empty and it uses /etc/systemd/network/ for the network. I really want to use the /etc/network/interfaces file.
2841[21:59:18] <greycat> however you turned it on, you can turn it off the same way
2842[21:59:32] <gdarko> It comes with the installation
2843[21:59:44] <greycat> if your interfaces are NOT defined in /e/n/i then you are probably using network-manager or connman
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2845[22:02:17] <somiaj> gdarko: what version of debian are you running? Debian disables networkd by default, so you have to enable it to use it.
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2847[22:02:27] <greycat> 14:02 gdarko> replaced-url
2848[22:02:34] <greycat> it seems to be an image site so I have no idea what it says
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2850[22:04:22] *** Parts: KrisKatovski (cfb4f18e@replaced-ip) ()
2851[22:04:23] <Devastator> greycat if it helps, it is a printscreen of the contents of /etc/network/interfaces saying "source /etc/network/interfaces.d/*"
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2854[22:06:00] <bindi> !ops | KrisKatovski spamming shit in private
2855[22:06:01] <dpkg> Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, abrotman, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen, SynrG, jm_, somiaj, jelly, petn-randall: bindi complains about a problem (see above)
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2858[22:06:34] <abrotman> no one loves me ...
2859[22:06:54] <gdarko> greycat: so you say that the original debian image doesn't use systemd for networking?
2860[22:07:08] * ratrace hugs abrotman without consent.
2861[22:07:10] <abrotman> bindi: can you PM me the message(s)?
2862[22:07:34] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o abrotman
2863[22:07:35] *** KrisKatovski was kicked by abrotman (you should know better)
2864[22:07:35] *** abrotman sets mode: -o abrotman
2865[22:07:40] <abrotman> bindi: Thanks
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2867[22:08:59] <somiaj> gdarko: correct, debian disables networkd and will either use the interfaces file (default for any interface setup with the installer) or network-manager (default for lots of desktop installs)
2868[22:09:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1575
2869[22:09:36] <gdarko> Thanks. Voila
2870[22:09:47] <avalchev> darko, if you are using dhcp, then is Network-Manager
2871[22:09:55] <gdarko> I will search official debian image
2872[22:10:07] <greycat> avalchev: not necessarily.
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2874[22:10:30] <avalchev> Yes, but usually that's the case :)
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2904[22:25:10] <maxtim> fmask and dmask is depreciated, btw. "Use 'file_mode' 'dir_mode' instead." Thanks for pointing me in the right direction, though.
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2906[22:26:41] <maxtim> Although I had set "force create/directory mode = 0775" as well as create/directory mode = 0775 in smb.conf, I thought that would have created correct permissions for linux users
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2911[22:29:07] <Scriptonaut> hey all, I'm on debian stretch, with dwm for my window manager. I am trying to run an app image, and I get: "Cannot connect to secret service api" and "Please check that you are not running trinity as root user and the gnome-keyring-daemon process is running"
2912[22:29:31] <Scriptonaut> I checked, gnome-keyring wasn't installed, so I installed it, then ran gnome-keyring-daemon -s, however I still get the error. Am I not starting gnome-keyring-daemon correctly?
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2914[22:29:56] <Scriptonaut> it's not installed as a service, more like a program that can optionally run as a daemon
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2985[23:06:34] <ihateAdmins> hello, i'm having a issue with my internet connection on my debian server Desktop is MATE. Everytime when it gets a suspend or standby i cannot connect to any services like ssh/vsftpd anymore but i can still ping the server. The status of the services are running as well. In order to be able to connect to the services i have to ping my pc and only
2986[23:06:34] <ihateAdmins> then the services become back available. I hope you can help me out on this. Thanks in advance
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2989[23:10:39] <ihateAdmins> i have disabled screensaver and power manager, so i don't know why it is going to suspend/standby in first place..
2990[23:10:51] <ihateAdmins> it is doing that only in login screen
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2993[23:12:50] <Delf> Upgraded to Stable (from oldstable). Now, whenever a user logs off from one seat, all the other seats locks.
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2995[23:14:11] <twobitsprite> "seat"?
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2998[23:14:48] <karlpinc> Delf: As in graphical login session?
2999[23:14:52] <GenTooMan> perhaps users?
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3002[23:16:07] <karlpinc> ihateAdmins: Is there some sort of sleep the bios (or uefi) does with a "wake-on-lan" sort of functionality? Is there anything in /var/log/syslog?
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3005[23:17:11] <Delf> twobitsprite: It's a multiseat setup.
3006[23:17:30] <Delf> Yes, karlpinc, a graphical login session.
3007[23:18:23] <karlpinc> Delf: What desktop software? (Just poking the problem.) What do you do to recover? Is there anything in the logs?
3008[23:18:53] *** Quits: format_c (~format_c@replaced-ip) (Quit: format_c)
3009[23:19:01] <Delf> karlpinc: GNOME. I must select the username relevant and type in password again
3010[23:19:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1567
3011[23:19:15] <ihateAdmins> karlpinc no and syslog isn't showing any problems. I am waking the server up with a usb keyboard
3012[23:19:26] <karlpinc> Delf: What does "lock" mean -- some dialog pops up? Can you ssh to the box? Ping it? Can a new user login?
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3016[23:20:49] <karlpinc> Delf: Are you using XDMCP and logging in from a X server?
3017[23:21:14] <Delf> karlpinc: Are you familiar with multiseat?
3018[23:21:47] <karlpinc> Delf: I run X over the network and can login from mulitiple remote boxes.
3019[23:21:54] <Delf> Lock as in screen goes into standby.
3020[23:22:02] <karlpinc> Into the gui. But don't use gnome.
3021[23:23:01] <Delf> karlpinc: Check this out. replaced-url
3022[23:23:36] <karlpinc> Delf: What happens if you use something besides gnome? I am randomly guessing that this has something to do with gnome switching out for something besides X -- but I don't recall any details at all.
3023[23:23:44] <karlpinc> Delf: Yah. Nothing new.
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3025[23:24:42] <karlpinc> Delf: If I'm recalling right, there's a way to "switch back". I think the switch was to wayland.
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3027[23:25:01] *** Joins: brutser (51f44354@replaced-ip)
3028[23:25:05] <brutser> if install linux (debian) on an SD card, is there any partition scheme that is desirable? should i use a swap partition? advise is welcome!
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3030[23:26:01] *** Joins: bolt (~r00t@replaced-ip)
3031[23:26:17] <karlpinc> brutser: In my opinion a swap partition is always good. Even on an SD card. There may well be stuff that gets into RAM but is rarely used. Swap it out and use the ram for something that needs it.
3032[23:26:31] <Delf> karlpinc: Haven't tried anything other than GDM/GNOME, yet.
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3034[23:26:55] <karlpinc> Delf: If it only happens with gnome that narrows it down.
3035[23:27:11] <brutser> karlpinc: someone else strongly advised me NOT to use swap as it will decrease lifespan of the SD card <
3036[23:27:57] <karlpinc> brutser: Look at the specs of your SD card and do the math. Last time I did I got a lifespan of 8-10 years, which was plenty good enough.
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3042[23:28:49] <EdePopede> i've even seen suggestions to ALWAYS use swap, no matter how much RAM there is. even if it uses RAM for swapping. (zmem or what it was?)
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3045[23:28:56] <SerajewelKS> brutser: swap with zswap turned on is good in that scenario
3046[23:29:03] <karlpinc> brutser: On the other hand, if you have enough ram that you don't need swap then even if you have swap it won't get used.
3047[23:29:31] <nvz> that may have been true at one point in time
3048[23:29:39] <brutser> karlpinc: ok
3049[23:29:56] <brutser> SerajewelKS: ok, will look into zswap, don't know that concept
3050[23:29:57] <SerajewelKS> brutser: zswap will compress swapped memory (ostentsibly reducing wear on the card) but may also totally avoid writing swapped pages to physical storage, which is good for both extending the life of the card and for performance (possibly reducing IOPs to slow storage).
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3052[23:30:02] *** Quits: zalt (~lambda443@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3053[23:30:29] <karlpinc> sdcards are brutally slow
3054[23:30:40] <SerajewelKS> yep, that's a very good reason to turn on zswap
3055[23:30:56] <karlpinc> Especially for writes.
3056[23:31:06] <SerajewelKS> zswapped pages aren't immediately written to disk, only if memory pressure increases more
3057[23:31:17] *** Quits: maxtim (~Tim@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
3058[23:31:26] <SerajewelKS> they're compressed and held in ram instead, until there's not enough ram left and then it writes the LRU pages out first
3059[23:31:53] <SerajewelKS> it's not a panacea but if you operate close to your memory capacity, it can give you just a bit more without immediately leaning on slow storage
3060[23:32:31] <SerajewelKS> it's a good trade-off if there are enough spare CPU cycles for compression
3061[23:33:10] <SerajewelKS> in my experience the ratio is always very close to 50%
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3063[23:34:43] <SerajewelKS> i should clarify, the default zswap mempool maximum size is 20% of your RAM. so if you have 1GB of RAM and pages compress 50% on average, your 1GB can hold: 1GB * 0.8 + 1GB * 0.2 * 2 = 1.2GB
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3065[23:35:37] <ihateAdmins> i hope this will fix it .. /etc/systemd/logind.conf => IdleAction=ignore
3066[23:35:37] <brutser> SerajewelKS: system is not short of ram, 16gb
3067[23:35:43] <SerajewelKS> there's still swap-out overhead and the interrupt causing swap-in overhead but if that extra 256MB can avoid being written to your slow SD card, on average the system will be faster
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3069[23:36:02] <SerajewelKS> brutser: so the numbers come out to ~19.2GB
3070[23:36:28] *** Joins: zalt (~lambda443@replaced-ip)
3071[23:36:40] <SerajewelKS> obviously this makes the assumption that pages will be compressed ~50%
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3073[23:37:08] <EdePopede> ram doubler
3074[23:37:15] *** Quits: progart (~kamee@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving.)
3075[23:37:15] <SerajewelKS> when the mempool fills up, the _compressed_ pages are written out, so you're reducing write size by ~50% as well (this may or may not reduce the number of IOPs)
3076[23:38:44] *** Quits: yvan (~tekmans@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
3077[23:39:20] <swift110> hey all
3078[23:39:55] <SerajewelKS> brutser: note that you can enable it while the system is running and it activates transparently. to turn it on permanently, you have to add "zswap.enabled=1" to your kernel command line (usually by editing /etc/default/grub then running update-grub)
3079[23:40:13] <brutser> yes i already read that part
3080[23:40:28] <SerajewelKS> brutser: do not confuse zswap with zram, which is a different thing that is designed for when you _don't_ have a physical swap volume
3081[23:40:57] <SerajewelKS> zram with physical swap is silly and performs worse than zswap in that scenario
3082[23:41:09] <brutser> well i try to find "optimal" solution for when having an SD card as storage for the filesystem
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3085[23:43:39] <brutser> SerajewelKS: so basically i have enough ram 16gb, but a slow i/o performing SD card, as karlpinc said, writes are slow
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3088[23:44:50] <SerajewelKS> brutser: right. so the optimal solution is to have enough RAM so you don't need swap.
3089[23:45:07] <SerajewelKS> however, some services assume swap and do weird things without it (RDBMSes are notorious for this)
3090[23:45:13] <brutser> yes
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3092[23:45:32] <SerajewelKS> so if you need swap, a swap volume on physical media with zswap turned on is probably the best choice
3093[23:45:41] <brutser> ok
3094[23:45:55] <brutser> and the size of the swap partition can be relatively small?
3095[23:45:59] <SerajewelKS> if you 100% do not want a physical swap volume, then you could use zram instead
3096[23:46:18] <brutser> ok
3097[23:46:28] <SerajewelKS> most swap volumes are recommended to be 1-2 times the size of your RAM but this really is only strictly necessary if you will use hibernation
3098[23:46:44] <SerajewelKS> if you have 16GB RAM then 2-4GB swap is probably fine if you won't hibernate
3099[23:46:53] <brutser> yes ok
3100[23:47:36] <SerajewelKS> RDBMSes in particular like to lock stuff in RAM and then gauge how much free RAM there is and operate really close to the system limit, relying on swap to catch stuff if the DB pushes too hard on RAM. you could configure the DB to limit its RAM use.
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3102[23:47:44] <SerajewelKS> or just having swap to catch that kind of stuff is also fine
3103[23:48:14] <SerajewelKS> that's where zswap can allow the system to push into swap a little bit without actually hitting a physical swap volume
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3105[23:48:40] <brutser> is the filesystem important? ext4, zsf, f2fs?
3106[23:48:51] <brutser> i dont think sd card can trim?
3107[23:49:26] <SerajewelKS> ext4 is probably fine on modern SD cards. f2fs is mostly intended for NVRAM that doesn't know how to wear-level; f2fs does wear-leveling for it.
3108[23:49:42] <brutser> yes ok
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3110[23:49:55] <brutser> thanks for the help, appreciate it!
3111[23:50:02] *** Joins: xcm (~xcm@replaced-ip)
3112[23:50:10] <SerajewelKS> if you use f2fs on NVRAM that does wear-leveling then you have two logical block abstractions and wear-leveling processes happening and one will actually work and the other won't be doing anything useful
3113[23:50:24] <SerajewelKS> np
3114[23:50:56] <SerajewelKS> i gotta run, if you have any other questions hopefully someone else here can answer
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3116[23:54:35] <Delf> karlpinc: It's happening with KDE Plasma too.
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