Realtime Nick Name Ticker of #debian at freenode (ICQ IRC service)

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2[00:00:28] <wonderer> ok peeps
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5[00:00:50] <wonderer> better hit the hay
6[00:00:55] <wonderer> thx for advise
7[00:00:56] <wonderer> nn
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10[00:01:57] <Snake727> Does anyone know where to look for learning hacking?
11[00:02:34] <Epakai> replaced-url
12[00:02:49] <annadane> this isn't really the chat for hacking, this is for debian support
13[00:03:08] <Snake727> Sorry, i did a list all channels and joined one, I'm new to IRC
14[00:03:11] <annadane> i don't think anyone can "teach you" hacking, anyway, it's just something you have to learn yourself
15[00:03:11] <somiaj> if by hacking you mean breaking the law, it is off-topic here. Though if by hacking you mean downloading some open source code and modifying it fit your needs, well debian has all of its source code available for you to read.
16[00:03:39] <annadane> there are books and articles if you're really truly interested
17[00:03:59] <somiaj> annadane: and it is a vague term, unfountally now it mostly means b
18[00:04:04] <jehorn> Yeah, I wasnt sure how to answer that
19[00:04:07] <Snake727> Know where these are? Feel like a simple google search will come up with all sorts of weird tutorials
20[00:04:13] <somiaj> annadane: means breaking into a system, as opposed to modifying software.
21[00:04:17] <annadane> yeah i pretty much just assume hacking means hacking into people's computers
22[00:04:34] <Snake727> Hacking as in security penetration testing on my own software and hardware
23[00:04:39] <annadane> oh, well
24[00:04:48] <annadane> that's a bit different then
25[00:04:58] <Snake727> I'm aware of that
26[00:04:59] <somiaj> Snake727: there are better places to talk about security testing, this channel is mostly for support of the debian os.
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28[00:05:06] <annadane> sorry, it's just that we do get some questions from script kiddies
29[00:05:15] <Snake727> Yeah i get that
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31[00:05:26] <Snake727> Somiaj, know about a security penetration channel?
32[00:05:28] <annadane> somiaj was much smarter by not assuming :P
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34[00:05:55] <somiaj> annadane: a lot of the original *nix hackers were not about breaking into things, but the word has changed meaning.
35[00:06:12] <annadane> i'm aware
36[00:06:13] <somiaj> Snake727: I don't, so I can't really direct you to somewhere more appropriate.
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38[00:06:33] <Snake727> I do have a question related to here tho, is Gnome a standalone developer or is it a child version of Debian or Ubuntu?
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43[00:07:17] <somiaj> Snake727: gnome is its own thing, though it mostly is a linux software.
44[00:07:28] <somiaj> I don't nkow how portable gnome is to say the BSD's anymore
45[00:07:31] <xormor> I use the "oldest" definition of "hacker" - a "typewriter person", "one who hacks a keyboard". But the keyboard must be hacked to make the system do something - like start a process or port scan or configure or compile - or write code. I do not consider typing on IRC hacking, unless the user writes to a bot.
46[00:07:54] <Snake727> What packages do i need to install on it? Does Gnome accept .tar.xz or .deb?
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51[00:08:33] <somiaj> Snake727: on debian it is best to install gnome from the debian repos, so you know it has been integrated intot he debian system.
52[00:08:36] <somiaj> Snake727: apt install gnome
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54[00:09:03] <somiaj> gnome is such a big project, it takes a lot of knowledge to compile it and get it functioning from upstream sources.
55[00:09:14] <xormor> Snake727, you know "nmap"?
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57[00:09:23] <Snake727> Yes i'm aware of Nmap
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61[00:09:37] <Snake727> I also know how to use it, but ports are mostly filtered so
62[00:09:39] <xormor> Snake727, then there is "wireshark". and "chkrootkit" and "rkhunter".
63[00:09:57] <Snake727> I dont know chrootkit or rkhunter though
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65[00:10:09] <jehorn> I kind of prefer older Gnome 2, so for me Mate is a good option.
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67[00:10:27] <Snake727> I downloaded Kali Linux which is a modified Gnome version so im not so sure
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70[00:11:39] <pavlx> hi
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72[00:12:41] <pavlx> why echolink, freedmr, freestar aren't in the list of free softwares?
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74[00:13:40] <somiaj> pavlx: I'm not seeing any of those packages in debian, where is this list you talk about. Check out the license on the software.
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78[00:14:02] <somiaj> Snake727: this is not the channel to support kali linux
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82[00:14:48] <Snake727> I get that, apologies
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85[00:15:23] <pavlx> Echolink replaced-url
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87[00:16:32] <somiaj> pavlx: anyways, not sure what this has to do with debian. Their license look open, but they also are for radio frequences, and there are laws in various countries that limit what frequences and power one is allowed to transit. And sometimes to enforce these laws, non-free licenses have to be included on that part.
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89[00:17:09] <somiaj> pavlx: but this is a debian support channel, and this software is not in debian, and it could be for other reason than the license (could be there is no one to matain it)
90[00:17:27] <pavlx> these are software to operate in digital
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92[00:17:40] <cheapie> "You must have an amateur radio license to use it." according to that page.
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95[00:18:02] <cheapie> I'd think needing a license to use the software for its intended use is enough to qualify it as "non-free".
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99[00:18:42] <iw0fzw> i got the license post exame from 1996
100[00:18:57] <brw> Echolink requires a license, yes
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106[00:20:32] <somiaj> yea, so even though the software itself my be gpl, there are other regulations on it making it non-free.
107[00:20:44] <iw0fzw> you find me on replaced-url
108[00:20:45] <somiaj> but since the software is not part of debian, this really isn't a #debian issue
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110[00:21:22] <somiaj> iw0fzw: sure, but this still doens't get around the issue that the software is not part of debian, and my guess is needing an amateur raiod license is part of it
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112[00:21:57] <brw> iw0fzw: So you do have an amateur radio license?
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114[00:22:19] <iw0fzw> but to put in the database of the free software
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116[00:22:28] <iw0fzw> you can put them
117[00:22:38] <iw0fzw> yes
118[00:22:53] <somiaj> "However, this software only support the Windows operating system and it is closed source." -- what does this have to do with debian?
119[00:22:55] <cheapie> iw0fzw: I think the point is that it's not considered "free" if it's illegal for most people to use it as intended.
120[00:23:11] <cheapie> somiaj: I think svxlink (the OSS one) is the one in question here.
121[00:23:12] <somiaj> that quote was form the page you linked for echolink
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125[00:24:45] <iw0fzw> i am authorised from Minister of Communication, Minister of Defense, Minister of Interior
126[00:24:53] <somiaj> replaced-url
127[00:24:57] <iw0fzw> i made the exame in 1995
128[00:25:06] <pistache> hi! i'm trying to rebuild ZFS on Linux from git master, in order to test some experimental features, but I always end up with RPM macros (systemd_*) in the dpkg hooks
129[00:25:21] <somiaj> iw0fzw: that is irrelevant, and you still have not stated what any of this has to do with debian.
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131[00:26:20] <pistache> is there some package to install to make these macros expand ? i don't understand how the zfs-linux debian source package is handling that (it does not have the RPM macros in the result package)
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134[00:26:43] <iw0fzw> and i passed the exame in 1995, in 1996 i requested the callsign and the Minister of Communication in gave me iw0fzw, 6 month latet i requested the definitive callsign and they confirmed iw0fzw
135[00:26:46] <somiaj> iw0fzw: is your actual question why is this software not in debian? If so then answer is maybe a mix of it contains non-free parts and requires some third party license to even use, so there maybe just little demand.
136[00:27:12] <jhutchins> With Squirrelmail removed, roundcube undocumented and not really for non-developers, what other home webmail server is available in Debian?
137[00:27:16] <somiaj> iw0fzw: again, this is not related to debian, please take this discussion to an appropriate place.
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139[00:27:48] <iw0fzw> i'll ask
140[00:27:53] <bacteria_> hi 4 all
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144[00:28:25] <pistache> is it appropriate to ping a package maintainer to ask a specific question ?
145[00:28:26] <iw0fzw> but i am legal, and my callsign too
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150[00:28:44] <jhutchins> iw0fzw: Both of which are irrelevant here.
151[00:28:55] <somiaj> pistache: usually no. Best to file a bug report.
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155[00:29:12] <pistache> a bug report for a question ? my guess it best not to bother them then :p
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158[00:29:56] <somiaj> pistache: what is your question. Their mail is public, but it is usually prefered info regrading pacakges beign discussed in an open form.
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161[00:30:49] <init7> Could someone help me fix this issue i got this error: replaced-url
162[00:31:10] <tobiasBora> Hello,
163[00:31:12] <somiaj> pistache: it could be there is another more appropriate place to ask your question than emailing the matainer.
164[00:31:19] <pistache> i have trouble rebuilding the debian zfs-linux package from the new upstream version, either by starting the packaging from scratch or by importing the new source in Debian's repo
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166[00:31:52] <somiaj> pistache: what do you mean by importing the new source in DEbian's repo? trying to use something like uupdate?
167[00:32:00] <pistache> there are some tricky alien integration things for systemd (it's an RPM build script) and I'm a bit stuck on why the systemd_* macros are not expanded
168[00:32:09] <AlexPortable> !dpkg reset-root-password
169[00:32:20] <AlexPortable> dpkg reset-root-password
170[00:32:20] <dpkg> AlexPortable: no idea
171[00:32:21] <AlexPortable> dpkg reset-root-password
172[00:32:22] <pistache> (+ it's a DKMS package, so it makes it even more complex)
173[00:32:23] <somiaj> pistache: does the actual debian source package use this tricky alien integraiton thing, or is it doing somthing else.
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175[00:32:34] <pistache> yes it does
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177[00:32:58] <somiaj> pistache: there is #packaging on irc.oftc.net
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179[00:33:16] <somiaj> pistache: are you able to build the source provided for the debian version just fine?
180[00:33:24] <somiaj> pistache: have you then tried uupdated?
181[00:34:05] <pistache> somiaj: yes I can build the Debian source version just fine, so I will try uupdated
182[00:34:07] <init7> Could someone help me fix this issue i got this error: replaced-url
183[00:34:24] <pistache> I am now realizing that the Debian package might not use alien as I thought initially
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185[00:34:36] <pistache> anyway thanks for your help somiaj, i dont want to bother you more
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187[00:36:05] <greenbagels> somiaj: I fixed it btw, it all was the kernel issue
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189[00:36:21] <greenbagels> once I actually enabled the correct feature, it worked
190[00:36:25] <greenbagels> thanks for the help
191[00:36:53] <somiaj> pistache: I'm sure the info you seek is hiden in the debian source package somewhere, so I don't think emailing the matainer would be appropriate for help. #packaging in irc.oftc.net may help, and since it kinda deals with how an offical debian package works maybe #debian-mentors would help on irc.oftc.net
192[00:37:04] <somiaj> greenbagels: glad you got it working.
193[00:37:18] <greenbagels> also, on that note, im trying to see what rocm is all about, and the only problem is the lack of people online who have tried working with it lol
194[00:37:40] <nobody> is apt-get installed by default on debian stretch?
195[00:37:44] <pistache> somiaj: indeed, it would not be appropriate as I can find that by myself. thanks for the pointers
196[00:37:48] <greenbagels> oh wait
197[00:38:07] <somiaj> nobody: yes, apt is an important package and should be installed
198[00:38:22] <mnuhmnuh> what is uupdated?
199[00:38:27] <somiaj> !uupdate
200[00:38:27] <dpkg> uupdate (in the <devscripts> package) upgrades a source code package from an upstream revision, or e.g. if the newest foo in debian is 1.2, and upstream is at 1.4: apt-get source foo; wget -nd replaced-url
201[00:38:36] <nobody> I'm having a discussion with someone and he claims that apt-get isnt installed by default
202[00:38:51] <somiaj> mnuhmnuh: script to try to use a current debian package to build a newer upstream versino
203[00:39:15] <somiaj> nobody: there maybe some strange minbase setup that woudn't install it, but even this seems unlikely
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206[00:39:56] <somiaj> nobody: i.e. debootstrap --variant=minbase, but even then 'minbase only includes essential packages and apt'
207[00:40:12] <somiaj> aptitude on the other hand, that one may not be there
208[00:40:26] <mnuhmnuh> somiaj: so dpkg just said. i'm running into a lot of devscripts related q. these days. ty.
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212[00:42:49] <tobiasBora> I installed dropbear in order to use ssh to unlock my luks crypted partition, and I tried several tutos like this one: replaced-url
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217[00:43:29] <tobiasBora> the thing is that all these tuto suppose that the file /etc/initramfs-tools/root/.ssh/id_rsa has been created during the dropbear install... But I can't find any such file!
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221[00:44:46] <nobody> somiaj: yes, aptitude is not installed by default on stretch
222[00:45:06] <nobody> but apt-get is, I was 99% certain of it but I had to ask here because I doubted myself
223[00:45:20] <dondelelcaro> tobiasBora: I think you want to install dropbear-initramfs, and then you'll have that file
224[00:45:55] <dondelelcaro> tobiasBora: dropbear was split out into dropbear-run and dropbear-initramfs a bit ago, apparently, and so those tutorials are out of date
225[00:46:21] <nobody> some people seem to think that apt-get is bad, I really don't get them.
226[00:46:29] <mnuhmnuh> tobiasBora: "find / -type f -name id_rsa -print" would brute force find it, if it exists. there are prettier ways.
227[00:47:19] <somiaj> nobody: agreed, even the most minimial install I know of 'minbase' includes apt
228[00:47:22] <tobiasBora> dondelelcaro: Hum I'm pretty sure I tried to install dropbear-initramfs, let me check that...
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231[00:48:40] <somiaj> nobody: though with docker and some containers, maybe there is some strange edge cases trying to strip even more out of minbase, which well might not be considered debian anymore.
232[00:49:20] <tobiasBora> By the way it's funny because I can try to ssh it even when it's locked, even if it refuses me because no key is added... Interesting
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234[00:51:08] <mnuhmnuh> nobody: replaced-url
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238[00:52:05] <tobiasBora> mnuhmnuh: this command does not return anything
239[00:52:17] <bwhite> how do I compile ufs module as rw so I can mount a freebsd partition
240[00:52:42] <tobiasBora> dondelelcaro: I confirm that dropbear-initramfs is already installed
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242[00:53:08] <tobiasBora> (as well as dropbear-run)
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244[00:53:37] <mnuhmnuh> tobiasBora: what?
245[00:54:00] <tobiasBora> mnuhmnuh: well no file named id_rsa are found
246[00:54:09] <mnuhmnuh> ah.
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252[00:58:13] <tobiasBora> Hum... I tried to reinstall it, the keys are indeed created (not sure where it put it then). However at the end of the install I've an error "dropbear: WARNING: Invalid authorized_keys file, remote unlocking of cryptroot via SSH won't work!
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265[01:04:33] <tobiasBora> and the only .pub files are in /etc/ssh/, but the do not correspond to the keys displayed during the installation...
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267[01:05:10] <dondelelcaro> tobiasBora: ah, ok. well, you can easily create those keys if you'd like
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271[01:06:30] <tobiasBora> dondelelcaro: The thing is that I need to create lot's of these files, also dropbearkey -t dss -f /etc/initramfs-tools/etc/dropbear/dropbear_dss_host_key (and I don't even have a folder etc in initramfs-tools, does that mean that I need to create the whole tree structure inside initramfs?
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274[01:07:56] <tobiasBora> By the way, I've openssh, and I've already configured a authorized key for root, can it create a conflict somehow?
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276[01:08:17] <dondelelcaro> tobiasBora: hrm; actually, I'm thinking that you might not need to create any of those; just a second
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279[01:09:30] <dondelelcaro> tobiasBora: ok; yeah, you don't need to create any of those files
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281[01:09:45] <tobiasBora> really? What should I use then?
282[01:09:56] <dondelelcaro> tobiasBora: you should just have the host keys, which should be created on install, and then an /etc/dropbear-initramfs/authorized_keys which specifies the keys to use
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285[01:10:45] <tobiasBora> dondelelcaro: Hum... In the authorized_keys I would find my local client keys?
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289[01:12:08] <tobiasBora> dondelelcaro: and where should I find these host keys?
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291[01:12:25] <tobiasBora> ohhh
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294[01:12:36] <tobiasBora> I missed the /etc/dropbear-* folder, let me check
295[01:12:45] <tobiasBora> yes I can see some keys here!
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300[01:14:56] <tobiasBora> Great, I tried to add my own key, no error like "invalid authorized_keys"! Do I really need to use the dropbear keys, or can I use my own keys for that?
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306[01:17:35] <tobiasBora> great, I got a shell :D
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308[01:18:23] <tobiasBora> That's just amazing, it works just great!
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310[01:18:31] <tobiasBora> too simple to be true
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312[01:19:16] <tobiasBora> Thank you very much dondelelcaro!
313[01:19:54] <tobiasBora> Just one thing: the dropbear and openssh keys are different, so I get a message like "Offending ECDSA key, remove with..." each time I switch between dropbear and openssh. Is it safe to copy the ssh keys in place of the dropbear keys?
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315[01:21:52] <nobody> mnuhmnuh: apologies for the late reply, I was in a discussion
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320[01:22:57] <nobody> mnuhmnuh: good job, those are useful aliases :)
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325[01:26:33] <mnuhmnuh> nobody: i think so. :-) doesn't take a lot of typing to upgrade my box.
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327[01:27:44] <dondelelcaro> tobiasBora: yeah, you could; the main reason they aren't is that you probably don't want to have your host keys on the unencrypted initramfs
328[01:28:03] <tobiasBora> dondelelcaro: hum make sense
329[01:28:07] <dondelelcaro> tobiasBora: because that would potentially enable someone to capture your initramfs and then replay all of your ssh traffic
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333[01:30:13] <freq> _ ___ _.--.
334[01:30:14] <freq> \`.|\..----...-'` `-._.-'_.-'`
335[01:30:14] <freq> / ' ` , __.--'
336[01:30:14] <freq> )/' _/ \ `-_, /
337[01:30:14] <freq> `-'" `"\_ ,_.-;_.-\_ ',
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339[01:30:21] <tobiasBora> dondelelcaro: then is is possible to handle two differents hosts keys? I found a solution involving "HostKeyAlias server2; CheckHostIP no", but not sure how it works
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345[01:32:04] <tobiasBora> *not sure if it's secure enough
346[01:32:10] <tobiasBora> (I guess it is)
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353[01:38:32] <tobiasBora> Hum seems fine, maybe I can even just use the HostKeyAlias, it seems to work great!
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363[01:42:58] <dondelelcaro> tobiasBora: yeah, that's actually what I do
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366[01:44:24] <tobiasBora> dondelelcaro: ok great, thank you veryy much for your help, I don't even know how I would have figure it out by myself, I cannot see any documation on the internet. Do you mind if I add this method to some stackexchange questions? (I can quote you if you want ;) )
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369[01:45:10] <TimApt_> Anyone know who is in charge of updating apt package manager packages? replaced-url
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371[01:46:39] <dondelelcaro> tobiasBora: go right ahead; no need to quot eme
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375[01:47:43] <dondelelcaro> TimApt_: that package is currently unmaintained
376[01:47:58] <dondelelcaro> TimApt_: so the QA group is doing "minimal effort maintenance" of it
377[01:48:16] <dondelelcaro> TimApt_: someone like you who uses it would be great to take flam3 over.
378[01:49:12] <somiaj> I'd also not call this an apt issue.
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382[01:52:12] <TimApt_> Not an apt issue? What kind of situation is this called? I'm sure it's common for people to come across software and wonder why it isn't being updated on apt. All I know about apt is it gets me software easily.
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384[01:53:36] <somiaj> TimApt_: it is an issue with the package in the debian repository. So the issue is the the debian package, not apt, the software that can install packages from remote locations.
385[01:54:23] <somiaj> TimApt_: In this case you could check bug reports or the tracker on this package and find out its current status, like it is unmatained
386[01:55:13] <somiaj> TimApt_: replaced-url
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390[01:57:01] <TimApt_> You're saying that I would actually be in charge of making sure that the right version is available to the package managers?
391[01:57:03] <somiaj> TimApt_: there is already a bug for this too, replaced-url
392[01:57:04] <judd> Bug replaced-url
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394[01:57:41] <somiaj> TimApt_: you would have to go through a process to get to that point, but if you wanted to and want to learn how to build packages, you could create a new package and then be responsible for future updates.
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832[03:47:56] <nurupo> is there a stable debian iso with non-free firmware? only see testing isos
833[03:48:03] <nurupo> need to get usb wifi stick working, don't have ethernet or anything else to connect to the internet
834[03:48:07] <nurupo> oh, i see
835[03:48:21] <nurupo> for some reason i thought debian 9 was buster
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837[03:48:47] <nurupo> which means this is the stable with firmware then, not testing
838[03:48:52] <nurupo> replaced-url
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840[03:49:20] <nurupo> thanks for the help :P
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846[03:50:55] <somiaj> !firmware images
847[03:50:56] <dpkg> Unofficial <netinst> and DVD installer images containing non-free Debian firmware packages are available for installing Debian 9 "Stretch". See replaced-url
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904[04:19:42] <awal1> log of loaded services, "journal"?
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906[04:20:27] <awal1> just wanted to compare stuff loaded when using a DM and when not.
907[04:20:35] <somiaj> awal1: what are you looking for, journalctl will list logs of all running services, though if you just want a list of what is running, 'systemctl status'
908[04:21:29] <awal1> somiaj, I don't want to reboot seversl times for compare what DM loads vs startx
909[04:21:40] <RoyK> somiaj: all services that are native to systemd, that is…
910[04:21:51] * RoyK still likes syslog
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914[04:22:14] <awal1> previously, kdm and gdm are heavy but now lightdm also is getting heavy, lasting boot time
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917[04:22:47] <somiaj> RoyK: it should list init.d services as well because they are units, at least that is my understanding on the compadability.
918[04:23:06] <awal1> only wdm and slim still really light
919[04:23:19] <awal1> so I just use starx
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921[04:24:04] <somiaj> awal1: if you are intersted in boot time, systemd-analyze
922[04:24:04] <awal1> but I wanted to understand what happens exactly; not sure if learn about debian boot stuff or systemd
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928[04:25:03] * RoyK once built a miniature distro from scratch and somehow likes SysV still, although systemd is nice at times
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931[04:26:11] <awal1> somiaj, yeah I know that but I wanted to compare when using dm and when not without reboots since I several times enabled & disabled dm's ; I thought there is an history log for boot stuff?
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933[04:26:42] <somiaj> there are lots of logs, and there is journalctl, so I would start looking through them.
934[04:27:00] <somiaj> RoyK: I think sysv is fine, as it worked for years, but systemd as an init system added some much needed features.
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937[04:28:00] <RoyK> somiaj: sure, I just don't get it that the designers decided to log everything somewhere else instead of parallel logging to syslog as well, as have been done for decades
938[04:28:32] <RoyK> hey! let's break unix/posix!
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941[04:29:01] <awal1> nothing in logs about services and such stuff
942[04:29:17] <awal1> I guess I have to make a persistent journal or something like that
943[04:29:23] <somiaj> sometimes change requires doing things differntly. Not that I agree with all systemd does, but I'm willing to adapt. Also, mkdir /var/log/journal then just use journalctl to get what ever logs you need
944[04:29:42] <RoyK> awal1: daemon.log should have them if the processes are doing it correctly
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946[04:30:11] <somiaj> awal1: journalctl can give you all logs for a paticular service.
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948[04:30:20] <somiaj> what service are you intersted in?
949[04:30:24] <awal1> somiaj, /var/log/journal i may need yeah. RoyK, ok checking that
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951[04:30:36] <RoyK> for fucks sake, we've been using syslog for what - four decades? and now it's just "not good enough"?
952[04:31:04] <awal1> somiaj, I have no clue; I'll have to find which services are loaded with x DM and which not and vice-versa
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956[04:31:27] <somiaj> usually it is a single service, which dm you intersted in?
957[04:31:38] <somiaj> note without the directory /var/log/journal this is only logs since the last boot
958[04:31:45] <Tramp> awal1: what about systemctl list-units, save the output, compare?
959[04:32:09] <RoyK> is there a "systemctl get-saneness" command?
960[04:32:39] <somiaj> RoyK: this is not the place to rant about systemd.
961[04:33:09] <awal1> well, I have gdm3, sddm, lightdm and slim (sid machine, trying stuff :P)
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963[04:33:20] <awal1> Tramp, trying to avoid reboots
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966[04:33:45] <somiaj> awal1: what are you wanting? If you want time, systemd-analyize can help see what time differnt dms took to load. If you want logs, journalctl gdm3 for instance
967[04:33:49] <RoyK> somiaj: I'm not ranting about systemd itself, just about the logging
968[04:34:24] <Lvl4Sword> So I'm not sure what exactly my issue is, but it's *not* hardware related as it *only* happens when booted into Debian. So a reinstall should be able to fix my graphical issues
969[04:34:38] <somiaj> awal1: sorry, journalctl -u gdm3
970[04:34:42] <Lvl4Sword> Something may have been corrupted
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976[04:37:25] <awal1> somiaj, my goal is simple : when I enable gdm3 boot process lasts like 2 minutes or so, with startx almost 3 seconds; I wanna find why whithout rebooting every time I enable/disable DM's for compare. I guess /var/log/journal is the solution
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978[04:37:36] <awal1> journalctl -u gdm3 -- Logs begin at Wed 2017-12-20 22:10:50 EST, end at Wed 2017-12-20 22:35:32 EST. -- -- No entries --
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980[04:38:21] <awal1> now I'm using startx, all dm's disabled, so I guess var log journal is required
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983[04:38:56] <awal1> 30 seconds ^:P
984[04:38:59] <somiaj> maybe gdm3 isn't producing stderr output, you could also check systemctl status service, and various things to see how long things take.
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988[04:41:18] <awal1> I'll create var log journal and check after a few reboots
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992[04:41:58] <awal1> what about shutdown logs?
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994[04:42:13] <awal1> tried this replaced-url
995[04:42:40] <awal1> I don't find something for debian
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1258[06:43:17] <awal1> check if this can help you to find which theme supports both gtk2 and gtk3 (just as regular user): find $(find ~/.themes /usr/share/themes/ -wholename "*/gtk-3.0" | sed -e "s/^$.*$\/gtk-3.0$/\1/") -wholename "*/gtk-2.0" | sed -e "s/.*\/$.*$\/gtk-2.0/\1"/
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1260[06:43:33] <awal1> excuses
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1262[06:46:10] <jsoft> What is the standard way to do firewalls in debian/linux these days ? Is there some easy to change scripty thing or how does it all work?
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1268[06:49:55] <somiaj> jsoft: iptables is the standard, though there are various frontends to this.
1269[06:50:26] <awal1> jsoft, my suggestion: ufw (+gufw, if needed) easy practicale as iptables front-end
1270[06:50:28] <jsoft> somiaj, What would you cat's reccomend though? A front end or learning iptables proper?
1271[06:50:38] <jsoft> awal1, thanks
1272[06:50:54] <somiaj> learning iptables will give you the most control, and debian has some predefined scripts to make saving and restoring rules fairly easy.
1273[06:51:22] <jsoft> Yeah I can get learning iptables properly would be useful, but right now I want to just sort basic shit out, and get on with the real job
1274[06:51:32] <jsoft> So yeah, thanks, will have a look at ufw
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1276[06:51:51] <somiaj> basic shutout isn't to hard, you first just deny everything, and then only open the ports you want.
1277[06:51:58] <jsoft> lol, stands for uncomplicated firewall, hehe
1278[06:52:44] <jsoft> somiaj, that was the plan
1279[06:57:08] <jsoft> Well... that was easy
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1282[06:57:38] <jsoft> Cripes
1283[06:57:40] <jsoft> All sorted
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1285[06:57:53] <awal1> :D
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1287[06:58:19] <jsoft> Let's see if it persists over reboots
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1304[07:09:47] <epicmetal> "browsers built upon the webkit, qtwebkit and khtml engines are included in Jessie, but not covered by security support" -- how can I stop these engines being used without necessarily stopping their containing packages being installed (because that would probably cause a dependency nightmare)?
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1307[07:11:06] <epicmetal> like is there a way to block networking for them without breaking things?
1308[07:11:24] <somiaj> epicmetal: not really, you could just uninstall them.
1309[07:11:40] <epicmetal> somiaj: I imagine that would break gnome/plasma badly, though...?
1310[07:12:16] <epicmetal> i don't currently have debian installed so i haven't tried... i'm trying to figure out if it's feasible first
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1312[07:13:19] <epicmetal> i don't want to have to worry about my DE inadvertently using an insecure lib to connect to the internet
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1315[07:15:30] <epicmetal> e.g. khotnewstuff or yelp or $deity knows what
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1320[07:17:15] <somiaj> there are ways to see what packages on a system depends on webkit by looking at reverse depends. It might be only the browsers use webkit and not the core stuff, unsure on this though.
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1323[07:18:39] <epicmetal> somiaj: i'm guessing core stuff uses it, otherwise why wouldn't the debian project just drop the hard to maintain browsers? just speculation, though.
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1325[07:19:14] <epicmetal> e.g. it really shocks me that debian would ship pathologically insecure things in stable
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1329[07:19:45] <epicmetal> seems to run counter to their security ethos otherwise
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1335[07:20:18] <epicmetal> like why not just ship (supported) chromium and firefox and drop (or compile-out) everything ele
1336[07:20:26] <epicmetal> else*
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1341[07:23:16] <somiaj> epicmetal: there are people who like to use the minimial webkit browsers. A lot of security issues can be controled by what pages one visits. The debian security team just can't ensure there isn't envulns.
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1344[07:24:21] <epicmetal> i guess it's a matter of goals/priorities hey
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1346[07:24:30] <epicmetal> it's just a bit depressing because it rules out debian for me
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1446[07:28:48] <nix64bit> you can make your own local install, free to make it as secure as you want
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1456[07:29:33] <epicmetal> nix64bit: i may as well run gentoo at that point
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1459[07:30:08] <cheapie> If Gentoo suits your needs better, then run Gentoo :P
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1461[07:30:18] <epicmetal> it doesn't :)
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1562[07:45:50] <awal1> you may be interested in 'debian-security-support' pkg
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1616[07:56:46] <epicmetal> awal1: i'm not running debian yet, i'm trying to figure out if it's suitable
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1633[08:07:35] <somiaj> I don't think the webkit issues are as big as you are making them out to be. You could also install a wm and make sure nothing from webkit is installed.
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1637[08:12:24] <nix64bit> the advantage of linux is that you can customize it for whatever you want, many don't like systemd and you can use the distro of debian called devuan, you could make your own distribution if you feel adventurous, debian is great for a quick desktop and migrates well to a server
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1655[08:21:54] <epicmetal> somiaj: so I basically need to install Debian to verify my assumptions
1656[08:22:16] <epicmetal> somiaj: I'm just trying to avoid that as its time consuming
1657[08:22:47] <epicmetal> somiaj: I'd argue that insecure web browsing libs are a reasonably sized issue for a workstation but I appreciate that you may have a different opinion
1658[08:23:30] <epicmetal> nix64bit: I'm trying to avoid hassle. I avoid Ubuntu because universe/multiverse don't have official security support... something Debian historically was superior in
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1660[08:23:59] <epicmetal> I was actually extremely happy with Arch but was having some GPU lockups. Fedora seemed to fix this but has its own set of challenges
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1669[08:25:05] <epicmetal> e.g. Plasma crashing and not being able to shut down, missing H264 in web browsers, needing 3rd party packages, etc.
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1672[08:26:06] <nix64bit> epicmetal: try this replaced-url
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1677[08:26:59] <epicmetal> nix64bit: no thanks, Debian is already borderline too old :)
1678[08:27:16] <jelly> epicmetal: insecure web browsing libs are typically embedded and only access local documentation or specific sites. eg. reportbug-ng only renders stuff from bugs.debian.org, it's not a generic browser
1679[08:28:28] <jelly> chromium and firefox-esr are the only two actual gui browser apps
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1693[08:31:54] <jelly> compiling out that would break core functionality of such a tool
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1695[08:34:03] <jelly> it doesn't stop the user from clicking on some unsafe link mentioned in a bug report, and it will open it inside the app
1696[08:34:48] <jelly> epicmetal: so if you can't stop yourself from clicking on things, yeah, don't run Debian (or any OS probably)
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1698[08:38:25] <awal1> epicmetal, do you thinkt (or are you/we sure) sure that non webkit stuff are totally secure? (I openssl poodle, apache struts vulnerabilities, and, and, and ...)
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1700[08:39:50] <epicmetal> jelly: "typically" -- that's the thing. I'm no Debian expert and I don't know all the scenarios, hence the doubt
1701[08:39:52] <awal1> what a simple extension can do replaced-url
1702[08:39:53] <judd> Bug replaced-url
1703[08:39:56] <epicmetal> jelly: but I see your point
1704[08:40:23] <epicmetal> awal1: the point is security patches, not zero days
1705[08:40:56] <awal1> epicmetal, debian is very secure
1706[08:41:07] <epicmetal> awal1: not according to the release notes
1707[08:41:10] <epicmetal> ;)
1708[08:41:23] <awal1> does gentoo ships webkit stuff?
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1711[08:44:16] <epicmetal> jelly: the user can't be expected to know that all web interactions are user initiated. These libs may be used programatically. And the websites in question might be non-Debian (untrusted) ones
1712[08:44:29] <awal1> replaced-url
1713[08:44:44] <awal1> probably all gnu/linux have midori...
1714[08:44:56] <awal1> all gnu/linux OS's
1715[08:45:34] <epicmetal> awal1: I see where jelly is coming from but I have no idea what your point is
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1717[08:46:18] <somiaj> awal1: the difference is gentoo will just ship the newest version of webkit when upstream fixes any vulns. The security team doesn't have the time to backport all of these fixes to ensure debian's frozen version is secure. Partly they have chosen not to do this because it is a small footprint.
1718[08:47:06] <awal1> somiaj, right
1719[08:47:55] <epicmetal> s/can't be expected to/doesn't/
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1721[08:48:35] <awal1> epicmetal, my point is, there are always unknown vulnerabilities somewhere; your security depends relatively on your habits in computing world, web browsing included,
1722[08:48:45] <epicmetal> awal1: the point is security patches, not zero days
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1724[08:49:46] <somiaj> epicmetal: I assume the debain security team would address any major vuln inside of how webkit is integrated if one is found, but it isn't going to keep up with every single one that would affect someone running an actual browser using webkit.
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1727[08:50:43] <somiaj> but it would have to be a major issue that affected debian on the whole, not like most the vunls which are related to users browsing the web using a webkit browser.
1728[08:50:52] <epicmetal> somiaj: I don't mean to be argumentative, but that assumption isn't supported by the release notes
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1731[08:51:20] <nix64bit> I dont really understand, isnt webkit bundled in the browser itself
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1733[08:51:25] <epicmetal> it explicitly says "not covered by security support"
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1735[08:51:37] <kolnpole> my mail command is not working : replaced-url
1736[08:51:45] <kolnpole> any idea whats the issue
1737[08:51:47] <somiaj> nix64bit: it is a libary framework that many other applications use to connect via http and https.
1738[08:52:02] <epicmetal> (and qtwebkit, and khtml)
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1741[08:52:37] <nix64bit> i use node and webpack
1742[08:53:43] <somiaj> nix64bit: similarly debian testing is not covered by secuirty support, but that doesn't mean there isn't situations where a core vuln gets fixed in testing very quickly, just most aren't.
1743[08:53:48] <somiaj> epicmetal: ^^
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1745[08:54:56] <somiaj> I'm just givng that example because I see it happen on very serious seciruty issues. So I would assume a very serious vuln in webkit that basically made all of kde vulnarable under normal use would be fixed.
1746[08:55:43] <somiaj> you can also look at the debian security tracker and see exactly what known vulns webkit is exposed to.
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1751[08:56:42] <awal1> epicmetal, may i know why focusing in debian specifically?
1752[08:56:43] <somiaj> epicmetal: but yes, if you are worried about ensure that you have every known vuln in webkit fixable on some desktop machines you handel, debian might not be the best for you.
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1754[08:57:13] <somiaj> awal1: they are trying to determine if debian will meet their needs, and are on the fence because of how debian handels security with webkit.
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1766[09:04:23] <awal1> somiaj, as you said, the vulnerabilities should have severity menor or normal; if they where RC, debian will not release them
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1771[09:06:47] <somiaj> epicmetal: if you are still courious, here is a place you can see status of known vulns in debian, replaced-url
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1775[09:08:16] <seansan> h
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1779[09:10:51] <toruvinn> do we have a place listing status of unknown vulns in debian? that'd be cool. ;-)
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1784[09:11:51] <RoyK> toruvinn: just lookup the vulnerabilities available and match them against the debian changelog
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1786[09:12:53] <epicmetal> somiaj: I see, that makes sense.
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1788[09:13:07] <epicmetal> jelly & somiaj: thank you
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1791[09:15:07] <epicmetal> toruvinn: haha
1792[09:15:19] <eck> i'd also like a list of unknown vulns
1793[09:15:25] <lol-md5> lol
1794[09:15:30] <gpunk> lol
1795[09:16:08] <lol-md5> when i shut down Debian i get this message: A stop job is waiting for /dev/dm-0 (X / 1m30s)
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1806[09:20:15] <somiaj> toruvinn: what do you mean by unknown vulns? use the security tracker. replaced-url
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1809[09:20:40] <somiaj> I must be tired if that was supose to be a joke.
1810[09:20:52] <toruvinn> somiaj, the joke was there can't be a list of UNKNOWN vulnerabilities, otherwise they would be known.
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1814[09:22:04] <somiaj> lol-md5: that looks like your lvm is doing something, and systemd will wait until it is finished to shut down.
1815[09:23:12] <epicmetal> or dm-crypt, or... it really does bug me that systemd isn't slightly more verbose here by default
1816[09:23:29] <epicmetal> i ended up reducing the timeout from 90s to 10s in system.conf
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1828[09:29:21] <epicmetal> That reminds me of my next question... can you run a separate dpkg database in a user account that #1 allows the user to install packages to $HOME/.local (or wherever) and #2 checks the main dpkg database to see if deps are already installed? For example, I had to compile my own libfoo --with-thingy and use LD_PRELOAD so randomapp could work properly. I'd like to package libfoo in $HOME (but not in / because
1829[09:29:23] <epicmetal> I don't want to mess with the OS's libfoo)
1830[09:29:53] <epicmetal> Sort of like an overlay
1831[09:30:12] <toruvinn> epicmetal, isn't LD_LIBRARY_PATH better than LD_PRELOAD in such case?
1832[09:30:14] <toruvinn> just wondering.
1833[09:30:24] <epicmetal> toruvinn: I think it was that actually
1834[09:30:29] <epicmetal> LD_LIBRARY_PATH
1835[09:30:34] <epicmetal> LD_SOMETHING :)
1836[09:30:43] <toruvinn> ok, as for your actual question i dunno, but i strongly doubt.
1837[09:30:44] <epicmetal> I was pretty happy that it worked
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1840[09:31:30] <epicmetal> I feel pretty gross doing "make install" in a non-sandbox
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1842[09:32:09] <epicmetal> Luckily it's the only lib I've needed to do this for
1843[09:33:50] <toruvinn> epicmetal, as long as you're doing it not as root, it shouldn't hurt THAT much ;-)
1844[09:33:58] <epicmetal> toruvinn: :)
1845[09:34:05] <epicmetal> toruvinn: it was as $USER
1846[09:34:28] <epicmetal> But you can imagine that it would get messy very quickly if there were additional debs
1847[09:34:30] <epicmetal> deps*
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1850[09:37:15] <epicmetal> replaced-url
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1852[09:38:06] <epicmetal> This stuff is so much easier to read on Arch -- line 38 -- replaced-url
1853[09:38:26] <epicmetal> --with-jpeg8 is the aforementioned --with-thingy
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1861[09:42:24] <somiaj> epicmetal: if that flag is needed to enable it, might depend on how the ./configure script detectes/decides to enable it.
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1866[09:43:16] <epicmetal> somiaj: I'm just trying to figure out if the Debian build system explicitly specifies --with-jpeg8 ---- it looks to me that it doesn't, assuming dh_auto_configure doesn't enable it somewhere e.g. via some config file or something
1867[09:43:40] <epicmetal> somiaj: but yeah, maybe it's more complex than that as you say
1868[09:43:42] <somiaj> epicmetal: as for package recompile, you can just roll your own packages to modify build options if needed, or you can install things locally and use something like equivs to let you system know you have it installed locally.
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1872[09:44:33] <somiaj> epicmetal: the rules contain lots of overrides. so if runing ./configure will automatically enable jpeg8 if it is found, then it would be enabled without being metnioned. If the only way to enable that feature is to explicty tell the configure script to do so, then it would be in the rules if enabled.
1873[09:44:52] <epicmetal> somiaj: it is internal; it basically builds a libjpeg.so.8
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1875[09:45:04] <epicmetal> in addition to the default libjpeg.so.2874973987
1876[09:45:07] <epicmetal> ;)
1877[09:45:23] <epicmetal> AFAIK it doesn't care about the environment
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1879[09:45:41] <epicmetal> Ok thanks
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1882[09:46:15] <epicmetal> somiaj: I'm guessing it takes a while to learn what dh_auto_* does
1883[09:46:40] <epicmetal> "A standard set of parameters is determined"
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1885[09:47:21] <somiaj> this is part of debian helper, the debian new matainers guide can help make sense of this
1886[09:48:54] <epicmetal> Seems kind of opaque
1887[09:49:12] <epicmetal> Makes me wish I persisted with Perl
1888[09:49:36] <epicmetal> "dh_auto_configure usually executes the following"
1889[09:49:40] <epicmetal> _usually_
1890[09:49:59] <somiaj> things can be overriden
1891[09:50:01] <epicmetal> I'm guessing I can check the build logs
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1894[09:50:18] <epicmetal> All this requires a Debian system :\
1895[09:51:05] <somiaj> replaced-url
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1898[09:52:01] <epicmetal> somiaj: that helps! Answer: no --with-jpeg8
1899[09:53:07] <epicmetal> So Debian/Fedora exclude it, but Arch includes it
1900[09:53:21] * epicmetal scratches his neckbeard
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1912[09:58:11] <ZUEH> i have mouse lag on debian jessie, only with USB-attached mouses (not the trackpad of my laptop). what could be the reason for this and what can I do against itß
1913[09:58:15] <ZUEH> *?
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1922[10:00:32] <celyr> ZUEH, what do you mean with mouse lag ?
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1924[10:01:07] <ZUEH> when i initiate mouse movement, it takes about 2 seconds until it reacts (once it reacts there is no lag, but when I rest the mouse for a few seconds and then move it again, it happens again)
1925[10:01:16] <ZUEH> so there is no lag once it is "activated"
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1927[10:02:39] <celyr> did you try a different mouse ?
1928[10:02:53] <celyr> what does your dmesg say during all this procedure
1929[10:03:04] <celyr> and what if you can /dev/mouse and start moving ^
1930[10:03:11] <celyr> if you cat *
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1941[10:07:04] <ZUEH> celyr: /dev/mouse does not exist
1942[10:07:10] <ZUEH> and dmesg sys nothing about it
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1945[10:08:14] <celyr> well dmesg should say something at least when you plug in the mouse
1946[10:08:52] <ZUEH> Logitech USB Receiver as /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1d.0/usb1/1-1/1-1:1.1/0003:046D:C52F.0004/input/input13
1947[10:08:57] <ZUEH> input,hiddev0,hidraw1: USB HID v1.11 Device [Logitech USB Receiver] on usb-0000:00:1d.0-1/input1
1948[10:09:06] <ZUEH> dmesg output from re-plugging it
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1951[10:09:23] <celyr> is this a wireless mouse ?
1952[10:09:30] <ZUEH> yes
1953[10:09:32] <celyr> okay
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1955[10:09:56] <celyr> did you try with a different mouse that is not wireless ?
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1957[10:10:06] <ZUEH> no
1958[10:10:12] <ZUEH> will do that, good idea...
1959[10:10:15] <ZUEH> brb
1960[10:10:20] <celyr> i think that the problem is in that
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1981[10:16:38] <epicmetal> So Debian stable keeps Chromium at latest stable now?
1982[10:17:04] <epicmetal> It's newer than Fedora's which is impressive
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2031[10:41:09] <kajika> would be nice to have latest firefox (quantum), I have to pull it from sid to get it.
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2041[10:47:42] <bravvve22> hi,am new be,i have tomcat server thats work just fine,one think is that i have domaine name bought from some provider,related to my server,when i try to connect to my webapplication using dns it redirect to it,but in the url bare its shows the ip addresse of the server how can i fix that,is it tomcat aspect or other thing
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2043[10:51:25] <edi> bravve22, sounds like a config issue serverside, correct me if i'm wrong
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2056[10:57:27] <bravvve22> edi:mine or DNS provider server
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2086[11:13:35] <gpunk> it s normal, you have to access your webaps thru apache
2087[11:13:47] <gpunk> hence in apache you have to make a virtualhost
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2090[11:15:57] <ezra-s> fwiw, you don't strictly need to make a virtualhost in apache to serve content
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2092[11:16:25] <Ulrar> Hi, quick question. Following the without-systemd instructions to remove it we set /lib/sysvinit/init as the new init, but that file doesn't exist. Everything works fine but I don't understand how, any ideas ?
2093[11:16:25] <RoyK> you just need a documentroot
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2095[11:16:33] <Ulrar> (I checked, no initramdisk so that's not it)
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2100[11:18:35] <ezra-s> RoyK: there is always a default documentroot, so you don't strictly "need" it either.
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2115[11:27:12] <gartral> hello all, how do I tell xen-create-image what size drive partition I want the vm to have?
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2133[11:40:04] <gartral> nvm figured it out
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2147[11:53:39] <hackieznf> salut
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2207[12:33:47] <petn-randall> Ulrar: Where did you get these instructions from?
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2223[12:44:46] <Ulrar> petn-randall: without-systemd.org
2224[12:44:58] <Ulrar> But I figured it out, the problem was the console=
2225[12:45:02] <Ulrar> without it it boots fine again
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2425[14:34:11] <lidiving> why would my wireless card be lost on boot while my laptop is plugged in?
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2427[14:34:40] <lidiving> When its not plugged into ac no problems on boot
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2451[14:56:20] <mar77i> sometimes laptops have a firmware controlled button to turn wifi on and off, are you sure you didn't accidentally press it?
2452[14:57:16] <mar77i> (some ibm thinkpads even have a switch that's hidden somewhere on the right, which really got me to fight with rfkill for a while once)
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2461[15:08:20] <somiaj> rfkill can check if there is a hardware or software block in most cases
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2467[15:12:40] <jgknight> anyone know the relationship between Ubuntu pkg maintainers and Debian pkg maintainers? i'm looking to use 'openvswitch-switch-dpdk' on debian, but it seems to only exist on Ubuntu and i'm not sure why. what would be the procedure to getting that pkg upstream and available in debian?
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2469[15:13:23] <jgknight> i suppose i could just try dpkg -i on my debian system, though i'm afraid of what the dpdk dependencies are and the different versions available on devbian vs ubuntu
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2474[15:14:27] <somiaj> jgknight: there is some overlap, but not always. To get a package from ubuntu in debian would be similar to getting any software into debian, though maybe some work has already been done by ubuntu.
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2476[15:14:56] <somiaj> jgknight: it would be better to compile the package from source than dpkg -i it, to get it into debian.
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2479[15:16:11] <jgknight> alright I'll give that a shot, and probably reach out to the pkg maintainers to see if they plan on putting it upstream
2480[15:16:40] <somiaj> there is a guide on the debian wiki about compiling software from a ubuntu ppa
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2482[15:17:22] <somiaj> jgknight: debian usually isn't upstream. You could see if there is already an RFP bug (request for package), and if not file one. Out side of that, unless someone volunetters their time to do the work to make the package debian compliant, it won't get into debian.
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2492[15:21:57] <jgknight> i'll check that out. thanks
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2518[15:45:07] <Kristjan> My name is Kristjan. I am in urgent need for money. Please send me money. For example 70$. Bank account nr: EE671010010225901016 (Estonia). Name: Kristjan Robam
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2522[15:46:57] <jelly> nice IBAN there. Be a shame if anyone reported this behaviour to their bank.
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2566[15:57:47] <srg> Hi. What mirror should I use? I see that there's deb.debian.org, httpredir.debian.org, then actual mirrors like ftp.us.debian.org.....Should I use a redirector? If so, which one?
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2577[16:00:03] <gpunk> httpredir.debian.org is fine
2578[16:00:13] <srg> Is there a difference between deb.debian.org/debian-security/ and security.debian.org/debian-security/ ?
2579[16:00:16] <srg> Thanks gpunk
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2584[16:00:32] <gpunk> none
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2604[16:07:35] <sab110> Hi everyone, I run FreeBSD and am planning on installing Debian as a VM to be able to use two proprietary programs
2605[16:08:00] <sab110> I will only need to install a minimal number of programs, will a 10gb virtual drive suffice?
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2609[16:09:03] <gpunk> go for 20 :)
2610[16:09:10] <gpunk> 12 can be enought tho
2611[16:09:38] <jelly> sab110: no GUI? Yes.
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2620[16:11:24] <sab110> I'll need Xorg yes, but I don't plan on installing any fully desktop
2621[16:11:45] <sab110> I'll go for 20, don't want to create more work for myself
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2625[16:13:39] <gpunk> what virtualisation software are you using ?
2626[16:14:09] <sab110> I plan on setting it up in bhyve
2627[16:14:50] <jelly> does it support any thin-provisioned disk backend
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2629[16:16:23] <sab110> Yes, you would create the image via zfs
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2631[16:16:37] <sab110> assuming that your FreeBSD root is on zfs too
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2697[16:36:50] <_rickster_> hey everyone
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2706[16:38:33] <ahmadadnan> hi, i am having problem with vmbr0 which cannot be started. the error is cannot start raise interface.
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2708[16:39:05] <ahmadadnan> the vm is in virtual box, nic bridge
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2737[16:50:03] <gpunk> did you try to run as root ?
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2739[16:50:09] <sfs> hi
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2741[16:50:20] <sfs> i'm trying to compile my program
2742[16:50:29] <sfs> it compiles fine on my freebsd
2743[16:50:40] <sfs> but it fails on debian 7 on a server
2744[16:50:51] <sfs> the program is really small, 60 lines
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2746[16:51:05] <sfs> the errors are mostly
2747[16:51:06] <sfs> error: unknown type name 'u_char'
2748[16:51:21] <sfs> and they are in header files, not in my program
2749[16:51:45] <sfs> do i need to include anything or pass some flag to the compiler?
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2752[16:53:49] <gpunk> replaced-url
2753[16:53:53] <gpunk> this might help you
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2757[16:54:51] <sfs> gpunk: yeah, i already saw that
2758[16:54:57] <sfs> i have typedef unsigned char u_char; in my code
2759[16:55:11] <gpunk> so did you try the Cflag trick ?
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2762[16:56:03] <sfs> hm, no
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2765[16:56:26] <sfs> ok, that returns more errors
2766[16:56:27] <sfs> error: unknown type name 'u_long'
2767[16:56:28] <sfs> heh
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2769[16:56:37] <sfs> so i need to define all those types :D
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2771[16:57:02] <gpunk> yes ...
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2799[17:05:11] <mr_claus> hi, with defining a custom paritioning recipe in the preseed.cfg file, do i have to select this definition with choose_recipe?
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2810[17:09:00] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1661
2811[17:09:09] <Darcidride> Hi everyone, I think i need a python maintainer here => I met an issue after an upgrade from Buster of python-cryptography, the issue is this error return : replaced-url
2812[17:09:09] <Darcidride> After reading replaced-url
2813[17:09:09] <Darcidride> My installed version of python-cryptography is "apt-cache policy python-cryptography => 2.1.4-1" so it's ok...
2814[17:09:09] <Darcidride> It seems like my python-cryptography doesn't have the "X509_up_ref"
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2816[17:09:11] <Darcidride> Here is my SSL.py installed : replaced-url
2817[17:09:12] *** Darcidride was kicked by debhelper (flood. Please use replaced-url
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2829[17:12:17] <Darcidride> Thanks to the bot that kick me for flooding.. :(
2830[17:12:21] <Darcidride> Hi everyone, I think i need a python maintainer here => I met an issue after an upgrade from Buster of python-cryptography, the issue is this error return : replaced-url
2831[17:12:26] <Darcidride> My installed version of python-cryptography is "apt-cache policy python-cryptography => 2.1.4-1" so it's ok... It seems like my python-cryptography doesn't have the "X509_up_ref" Here is my SSL.py installed : replaced-url
2832[17:12:33] <Mathisen> Darcidride, dont repaste
2833[17:12:33] <Darcidride> nothing is returned => strange... So i really need help, Thank you in advance for your help ! :)
2834[17:12:43] <Darcidride> Oh, so you already saw it ?
2835[17:12:47] <Mathisen> yes
2836[17:12:55] <Darcidride> Sorry, i was thinking the bot kick me after 2 or 3 messages
2837[17:13:11] <Mathisen> absolute path = /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/OpenSSL/SSL.py) was last thing
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2839[17:13:39] <Darcidride> Ok so i do the right thing, it missed some lines
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2842[17:14:35] <Darcidride> Im available for 40min to work on this, after i won't be, so if a maintainer in here i can work and test things with him without problem, but after i need to go, sorry
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2864[17:25:19] <kempo> hi all. i am configuring an ibm m3650 server right now. i setup the network configuration during the debian installation. it took verly long to partitionate and overwrite the existing hdd raid. now the machine does not have internet access anymore, but during the network test it worked. in case the formating of the devices took so long, is there a way to reset the ip in the console?
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2894[17:36:44] <Edan777> I everyone!
2895[17:37:14] <Edan777> Hi* =)
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2910[17:42:45] <brw> yo
2911[17:43:08] <Edan777> This is my very first time here. I would like to know if there is any suitable alternative to Skype in the repositories or any reliable free software I could install on this distribution
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2918[17:44:52] <mtn> Edan777: I think there are, but almost nobody will be using them, especially not skype users
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2920[17:45:38] <jelly> if all your friends and family are on skype then you need a skype client. If you can convince everyone to use something else then you might have more choice
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2923[17:46:26] <Edan777> Yeahp, my case is that I need it only for talking to my girlfriend so I am looking for a replacement
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2925[17:47:02] <Edan777> I am bounded to the chromium plugin version because the desktop version doesn't work well on my machine
2926[17:47:23] <Edan777> and I don't want to have windows installed just for using Skype
2927[17:48:05] <brw> What about on your smart phone or tablet?
2928[17:48:08] <jhutchins_wk> Edan777: Audio/Video chat on Linux has been in a state of "almost working" pretty much as long as I've run linux.
2929[17:48:40] <Edan777> I have none of that, brw :/
2930[17:48:53] <Edan777> I see, jhutchins_wk
2931[17:49:01] <jhutchins_wk> Edan777: There are some VOIP clients, but the problem is that you need some kind of central switchboard for most of them to connect, and the public services are almost all proprietary.
2932[17:49:12] <brw> What about Google Hangouts?
2933[17:49:13] <brw> that should work
2934[17:49:46] <Edan777> to be honest I am concerned about privacy as well, since I use it with my girlfriend, so you know...
2935[17:50:16] <jelly> wonder if there's Signal for linux
2936[17:51:04] <jelly> replaced-url
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2938[17:51:17] <Edan777> thanks, jelly.. I will check it out
2939[17:51:53] <jelly> whether it works on debian is anyone's guess. The "xenial" codename in repo definition suggests it's built for ubuntu lts
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2942[17:52:42] <Edan777> yeah... the reason I came here is because I was wondering if we had any supported software on the debian repos
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2944[17:52:59] <Edan777> I like to keep my install as "pure" as possible
2945[17:54:20] <Edan777> Anyway guys thank you all for your answers!
2946[17:54:41] <Brigo> Edan777 what about mumble?
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2948[17:54:48] <Edan777> It is the very first time I use this channel and I am glad that you do cooperate with each other
2949[17:54:57] <jelly> I honestly can't recommend any actually free software right now
2950[17:54:58] <Edan777> I hope to be with you here more often
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2952[17:55:24] <Brigo> Edan777, are you familiar with teamspeaker?
2953[17:55:52] <Edan777> No, Brigo. I have never heard of none of them.
2954[17:55:54] <jelly> Brigo: does that do video?
2955[17:55:58] <Brigo> not sure
2956[17:55:59] <Edan777> Have you used them?
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2958[17:56:39] <Brigo> it looks like no :-(
2959[17:56:41] <Edan777> My ideal software would be one with basically the same functions that Skype has but free software
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2962[17:56:50] <Edan777> and also Debian-supported
2963[17:57:38] <Brigo> Firefox Hello?
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2965[17:58:36] <Edan777> I think I heard some months ago that Mozilla discontinued that application. Didn't they?
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2967[17:59:06] <Brigo> replaced-url
2968[17:59:13] <Brigo> Edan777, don't know just googling :)
2969[17:59:27] <Edan777> hehe ok =)
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2974[18:00:18] <Edan777> Never mind, guys. I think I have gathered some useful information to work with! For now I think I must stick to Skype until I test the options you mentioned!
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3016[18:23:51] <rlenti> hi guys ineed help fot myql (phpmyadmin) password.I've just installed phpmyadmin on debian 9 but on logon i can't access with the password (the password it's ok).
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3020[18:25:40] <gftg> Edan777: Another option, would be nextcloud. A fried of mine installed it on his server, then shared a URL with me, which worked on firefox. This means that the person you want to speak with, won't need to install any software (other than the browser).
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3023[18:26:10] <dutchfish> rlenti, did you give it passsword on install?
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3026[18:26:52] <gftg> Edan777: I'm not sure if that's possible to do from your home computer (because of port forwarding restrictions that your ISP might impose), but I'd give it a try.
3027[18:26:53] <rlenti> sure
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3031[18:27:41] <rlenti> I've used ubuntu and debian from years, never had tuhis problem.It's a fresh install of debian 9
3032[18:27:41] <gftg> Edan777: I think that the nextcloud app that my friend used was this one: replaced-url
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3034[18:27:57] <dutchfish> rlenti, the user, is either root or admin (for the myssql login), i cant remember this at the top of my head.
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3038[18:28:54] <rlenti> none of the above, tried all passwords and users.
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3041[18:29:36] <rlenti> I've lso just removed mysql and phpmyadmin and installed again... all done correctly but on the login the phpmyadmin won't give me the access
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3045[18:29:48] <dutchfish> rlenti, then use dpkg-reconfigure phpmyadmin (as root user)
3046[18:30:13] <Edan777> oh, thanks gftg
3047[18:30:21] <dutchfish> rlenti, something went wrong on install time, or mysql isnt configured right
3048[18:30:23] <Edan777> I will open the link
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3051[18:32:14] <dutchfish> rlenti, and i assume apche2 is already configured and php is working correctly ... if not use phpinfo().... to find out
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3053[18:32:38] <dutchfish> s/apche2/apache2
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3056[18:33:51] <dutchfish> rlenti, last thing, check your logs
3057[18:34:22] <rlenti> dutchfish: OK YOU ARE RIGHT. Yes the user in this release is "phpmyadmin" instead of "root" or "admin"... it's the first time in my life.
3058[18:34:40] <dutchfish> rlenti, ah, that explains it
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3060[18:35:20] <dutchfish> rlenti, i change it after the default install anyway, just for security sake
3061[18:35:23] <rlenti> Thans for help, i've find the correct Username doing the reconfigure command
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3063[18:35:30] <dutchfish> rlenti, yw
3064[18:36:17] <xar-> E: The repository 'replaced-url
3065[18:36:20] <xar-> help ^
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3067[18:36:56] <dutchfish> xar-, that not the correct mantra for apt/source.list
3068[18:37:07] <dutchfish> source.list*
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3070[18:37:34] <xar-> i have: deb mirror stretch main
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3072[18:37:44] <dutchfish> xar-, replaced-url
3073[18:37:49] <xar-> thanks
3074[18:37:53] <dutchfish> xar-, yw
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3076[18:38:17] <jhutchins_wk> !stretch sources.list
3077[18:38:17] <dpkg> A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Stretch" has three lines: "deb replaced-url
3078[18:38:52] <xar-> is it because im using a separate mirror?
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3081[18:39:00] <jhutchins_wk> dutchfish: Ach, missed your URL.
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3085[18:39:15] <jhutchins_wk> xar-: No, it's because you don't have it configured correctly.
3086[18:39:18] <dutchfish> jhutchins_wk, np, i didnt know the factoid
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3088[18:39:28] <rlenti> OH NO!
3089[18:39:34] <dutchfish> xar-, no, thats fine reread
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3092[18:40:31] <xar-> some places the hyphen is used, other the slash
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3094[18:40:34] <dutchfish> xar-, the devil is in the details, / or -
3095[18:40:51] <dutchfish> xar-, the factoid is correct
3096[18:40:52] <xar-> totally not confusing ha
3097[18:40:52] <rlenti> phpmyadmin has no permission on any DB, i've donethe reconfigure and i've seen also root as db administrator but after i can't access... i don't know... i will try removing all (mysql + phpmyadmin), rebooting and recofiguring all.
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3101[18:42:00] <jelly> why do people think removing and reinstalling can fix things
3102[18:42:24] <dutchfish> rlange, this might be due to leftovers of former configs, if this is a brand new reinstall anyway, use aptitude purge [foo] to uninstall
3103[18:42:49] <dutchfish> oops that was for rlenti
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3106[18:44:01] <xar-> so it turns out my syntax was fine, I changed mirrors, problem went away
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3109[18:44:37] <dutchfish> xar-, i am curieus why that is, hold on
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3111[18:45:03] <dutchfish> xar-, replaced-url
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3115[18:45:47] <annadane> jelly, because it can, sometimes
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3117[18:45:52] <annadane> but that's more of the exception than the rule
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3119[18:46:00] <annadane> and shouldn't be the first thing you try
3120[18:46:06] <dutchfish> xar-, and security needs another mirror
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3122[18:46:52] <zomaar> Trying to build glibc using source package on Debian 8 in an ext4 fs on thin LVM.... and the system hangs :(.
3123[18:46:53] <dutchfish> annadane, jelly depends, with logs along, you are right
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3127[18:48:14] <zomaar> It's in a VPS so hardware issues are out of the question. I guess it is just the device mapper.
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3129[18:49:00] <annadane> it's bad practice anyway because you're creating a habit for yourself of guessing what the problem is instead of actually investigating what the problem is or asking for help
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3135[18:50:59] <setty> zomaar, did you run with "make -j" ? Probably gcc is occupying all the cores so the system is unresponsive
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3139[18:51:41] <zomaar> it has only one core (available), but it's a real system hang, 120 second freeze messages
3140[18:51:57] <zomaar> not using a lot of memory, not using swap, etc.
3141[18:51:59] <jelly> zomaar: which virtualization solution? does the host hang or vm?
3142[18:52:20] <jelly> is the "thin lvm" inside VM or disk backend on the host?
3143[18:52:43] <zomaar> I am a guest inside KVM, my thin lvm is inside my VM
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3147[18:53:29] <zomaar> So my VM hangs.
3148[18:53:35] <jelly> the fact you're able to get and see those cpu hung messages means the OS is not hung completely :-)
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3151[18:54:01] <zomaar> correct but that's usually what the device mapper does :p. Or something similar. I mean like IO queue problems.
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3154[18:54:37] <jelly> zomaar: 3.16 and jessie lvm2 is probably too old for reliable thin lvm, might be a genuine bug there
3155[18:54:48] <zomaar> Yeah I have no choice but to upgrade.
3156[18:54:50] <jelly> ,v lvm2
3157[18:54:51] <judd> Package: lvm2 on amd64 -- wheezy: 2.02.95-8; jessie: 2.02.111-2.2+deb8u1; stretch: 2.02.168-2; buster: 2.02.176-4.1; sid: 2.02.176-4.1
3158[18:55:07] <zomaar> Actually I can upgrade LVM2 in part I think no issues
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3160[18:55:26] <jelly> dunno about userspace. You can try upgrading just the kernel to 4.9 from jessie-backports and see if there's any difference?
3161[18:55:28] <zomaar> Well, none immediately obvious.
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3163[18:55:39] <zomaar> Right, DM should be part of the kernel right?
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3166[18:55:51] <jelly> ,kernels
3167[18:55:53] <judd> Available kernel versions are: experimental: 4.14.0-trunk-686-pae (4.14-1~exp1); sid: 4.14.0-1-686-pae (4.14.2-1); buster: 4.13.0-1-686 (4.13.13-1); stretch-backports: 4.13.0-0.bpo.1-686 (4.13.13-1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.9.0-4-686 (4.9.65-3); jessie-backports: 4.9.0-0.bpo.4-686 (4.9.51-1~bpo8+1); jessie: 3.16.0-4-686-pae (3.16.51-2); wheezy-backports: 3.16.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae
3168[18:55:54] <judd> (3.16.39-1+deb8u1~bpo70+1); wheezy: 3.2.0-4-686-pae (3.2.96-2)
3169[18:56:03] <jelly> !bdo kernel
3170[18:56:04] <dpkg> Newer kernels for Debian stable releases are available from the <stretch-backports> repository. After modifying your sources.list, run «aptitude update». To install the current backported kernel: «aptitude -t stretch-backports install linux-image-`uname -r|sed 's,[^-]*-[^-]*-,,'`». To list available backported kernel image packages: «aptitude search '?narrow(~nlinux-image,?origin(Debian Backports))'».
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3172[18:56:25] <zomaar> Cause LVM2 is just user space tools right
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3180[18:59:00] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1681
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3204[19:06:33] <zomaar> Rebooting. I wonder why I can't get packages from backports by default. Do I have to set Default-distribution or something?
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3213[19:09:00] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1674
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3217[19:10:04] <gartral> hey all... I... backed myself into a corner here and i have no idea how to fix it... I restarted a domU and it won't come back up, the last entry in that domU's log is "waiting to die" it's been like that for 10 minutes
3218[19:10:48] <gartral> er, obviously this is a xen server..
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3220[19:11:21] <jelly> zomaar: backports are not meant to be default
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3222[19:12:16] <jelly> however, after you install a package from bpo once manually, apt continues to pull upgrades from there if any become available
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3255[19:31:25] <mnuhmnuh> zomaar: you need backports mentioned in /etc/apt/sources.list
3256[19:31:30] <warai_otoko> poor Kristjan
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3260[19:33:28] <mnuhmnuh> zomaar: eg. "deb replaced-url
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3262[19:34:15] <somiaj> buster-backports? I doubt there is much in there.
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3264[19:35:35] <mnuhmnuh> somiaj: even when i kept to stable, i seldom found any need for backports. "bleeding edge" means most freshest bugs. ick.
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3268[19:36:22] <somiaj> sure, but buster-backports is more a place holder until the actual release of buster.
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3270[19:36:35] <somiaj> backports are nice when it is only a pice of software you want newer.
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3272[19:38:31] <mnuhmnuh> somiaj: place holder prob. true. why backport when testing is almost as fresh as sid?
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3275[19:38:44] <Floflobel> hello, I have a small server with an ARM processor but which has only one SATA port, an RJ45 port and are power supply. How can I pre-install the system on the hard drive so that it boots directly and the network is connected?
3276[19:39:11] <sh00p> you debootstrap, chroot into it, install kernel and bootloader
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3282[19:40:57] <d9867eb> hi
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3286[19:42:20] <Floflobel> sh00p have you got a complet tutorial ? I will check what you tell me, thank you
3287[19:42:31] <somiaj> mnuhmnuh: exactly, there is no reason to backport a package from sid to buseter, when standard development means packages migrate naturally into buster from sid.
3288[19:42:45] <sh00p> Floflobel, i dont have a tutorial... but there are plenty on debootstrap
3289[19:42:46] <sh00p> just google
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3292[19:43:15] <Floflobel> ok thank you
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3300[19:44:40] <d9867eb> hello, I had like a good proxy and sandboxing solution for security reasons. what are some good alternatives?
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3302[19:46:46] <annadane> proxy *and* sandboxing? hmm
3303[19:47:25] <d9867eb> not both one in
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3308[19:49:05] <d9867eb> I had like 2 solutions, 1 for proxy, 1 for for sandboxing.
3309[19:49:07] <dutchfish> d9867eb, what do you mean by 'good', ie separationlevel?
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3315[19:51:40] <d9867eb> dutchfish: yes, speccially sandboxing. if someone got into my machine they should not be able to get my hostname or anything else that could identify my machine.
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3319[19:52:03] <dutchfish> d9867eb, for an intro replaced-url
3320[19:52:24] <dutchfish> d9867eb, also think about jailing, containerisation
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3322[19:52:55] <d9867eb> dutchfish: I have read about jailing
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3326[19:53:45] <d9867eb> dutchfish, what is the best? jailing or containers?
3327[19:53:53] <dutchfish> d9867eb, if network separation is paramount, maybe lxc or docker
3328[19:53:59] <dutchfish> d9867eb, depends
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3331[19:54:44] <dutchfish> d9867eb, there is no silver bullet, but at least you should consider snapshotting if this is all in the context of building a honeypot
3332[19:54:47] <d9867eb> dutchfish, paramount?
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3336[19:55:11] <dutchfish> d9867eb, paramount = most important
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3339[19:56:09] <dutchfish> d9867eb, so you can easely roll back, make snapshots and backups
3340[19:56:23] <jelly> I don't think containers on linux should be used for any kind of isolation with security in mind, yet
3341[19:56:39] <jelly> so many ways to escape
3342[19:57:12] <dutchfish> jelly, well, if it is to build things or autobuild, maybe
3343[19:57:39] <jelly> build things from sources you trust
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3347[19:59:05] <dutchfish> jelly, well, at least build things in envirenments you can trust
3348[19:59:31] <AlexPortable> I think my android system cpu usage somewhat lies in the internal storage, like a bugged folder or something
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3355[20:02:55] <dutchfish> d9867eb, what i was trying to tell you, that 'good' depends on quiet some things.
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3359[20:04:52] <d9867eb> dutchfish, I am not building a honeypot. I want a proxy because I want to be able to browse the web without network admins spying on me. MainlyI want a sandboxing solution because I want to learn about running a Tor service and a guide told me to sandbox for security. Hoerver there are too many alternatives.
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3361[20:05:42] <seansan> ssh tunnel
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3364[20:06:13] <dutchfish> d9867eb, so you want to build a tunnel? packets can be intercepted. No way around that. But they can be encrypted.
3365[20:06:14] <jelly> seansan: because tcp is the best vpn :-\
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3370[20:07:31] <d9867eb> dutchfish, yes, a encryption would be nice
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3372[20:08:30] <dutchfish> d9867eb, there is alot that can be said about this topic, but sice this is a debian support channel, this is going offtopic very quickly. Maybe you want to discuss this in #debian-offtopic, unless you have very specific questions related to that for a debian setup.
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3374[20:08:54] <d9867eb> ok
3375[20:09:00] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1672
3376[20:10:16] <d9867eb> I am running debian stable on the server intended for this.
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3386[20:16:00] <aykut> hey guys
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3389[20:16:48] <aykut> i have a setup with xfce4 and some hp netbook
3390[20:16:50] <aykut> 32bit
3391[20:17:08] <aykut> i installed blueman and b43 firmware
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3399[20:19:22] <annadane> aykut, okay, and your question is?
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3401[20:19:33] <aykut> but when i unblock bluetooth with rfkill unblock all
3402[20:19:42] <aykut> it soft blocks itself again
3403[20:20:07] <petn-randall> aykut: Can you show us the CLI output on replaced-url
3404[20:20:14] <aykut> ok
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3407[20:20:48] <zomaar> jelly: I eh... needed aufs but I built it now using the stretch aufs-dkms package and all the rest from backports :p.
3408[20:21:16] *** Quits: nick20 (~nick20@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3409[20:21:27] <aykut> replaced-url
3410[20:21:30] <aykut> there it is
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3413[20:22:17] <aykut> replaced-url
3414[20:22:19] <petn-randall> aykut: I see. How long does it take to get blocked again?
3415[20:22:26] <aykut> few seconds
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3417[20:22:37] <petn-randall> I see.
3418[20:22:38] <aykut> not more than 5 or 6
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3420[20:23:09] <petn-randall> aykut: Do you maybe have a bluetooth app running? Maybe the one in the systray is disabling it again.
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3422[20:24:13] <aykut> it says "turn bluetooth on" and when i click it same thing happens
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3427[20:24:57] <aykut> lets try remove blueman and start from stratch
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3433[20:28:13] <Fahrradkette> hello everybody. If "hostname -d" doesn't return anything, does that mean my machine doesn't have a domain specified? I'm installing debian on a second machine and don't want to have different domains set:)
3434[20:28:28] *** Parts: JZTech101 (jztech101@replaced-ip) ()
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3438[20:30:23] <somiaj> Fahrradkette: there are various things domain name can mean, hostname -d uses reverse ip lookup to determine the DNS domain name, which you can configure in /etc/hosts
3439[20:30:59] <somiaj> Fahrradkette: there is also domainname, which will list the contents of /etc/domainname (I belive)
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3441[20:31:28] <Fahrradkette> somiaj: tyvm
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3443[20:31:47] <sab110> ls
3444[20:31:54] <Fahrradkette> love the explicit (none) from domainname
3445[20:32:15] <somiaj> Fahrradkette: just means you don't have any set in the file.
3446[20:32:20] <sab110> What is the recommendation for swap when running Debian as a virtual machine?
3447[20:32:45] <somiaj> sab110: depends on lot on your ussage, and how much ram you expect to use.
3448[20:32:57] <somiaj> (and now much you allocate from the host to use)
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3451[20:33:37] <sab110> somiaj, my main question is where should swap be allocated, inside the VM seems ods
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3453[20:34:05] <somiaj> yes, you can put swap on the virtual harddrive, i usually use a few gigs just in case because I don't give my vms to much ram.
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3455[20:34:31] <zomaar> sab110: inside the VM also makes it more independent.
3456[20:34:48] <sab110> Got it I was just wondering if there were any performance pnealties
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3460[20:36:29] <somiaj> I don't think so, it is still writing to the same disk, and I don't think a virtual disk image adds that much to the i/o bus
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3463[20:37:08] <n4dir> can't say that i often see swap being used at all. And i sure got low-specs machines.
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3466[20:37:56] <zomaar> vmware says: Increase the guest memory, but not to an extent that leads to excessive host memory swapping.
3467[20:37:56] <dondelelcaro> n4dir: you should see a little bit of swap usage, assuming you have enough usage to exhaust free memory
3468[20:38:00] <somiaj> yea I would see it more as a safty net, if you are regurally using swap you didn't allocate enough memeory
3469[20:38:27] <dondelelcaro> (IE, you don't have any memory which isn't actively cached+buffer+allocated)
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3475[20:39:54] <zomaar> I run a VPS server on 1GB of RAM not doing much of anything usually but 600 MB is in caches, that also includes a LXC guest and thus 2 copies of Apache etc.
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3482[20:42:03] <zomaar> It never uses swap and so it basically just ordinarily uses about 450MB of memory.
3483[20:42:38] <dondelelcaro> zomaar: yeah, if you never have any memory pressure at all, then you'll never use swap
3484[20:43:12] <zomaar> Currently 536 kB :p.
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3488[20:43:28] <dondelelcaro> zomaar: so yeah, you're using some swap.
3489[20:43:36] <n4dir> I guess we can agree on the answer somiaj gave as the first one (depends on lot on your ussage, and how much ram you expect to use )
3490[20:43:42] <dondelelcaro> right
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3492[20:44:02] <dondelelcaro> basically, you should have enough swap that you never run out of it while performance is still reasonable
3493[20:44:13] <n4dir> if it wasn't for webbrowsing i would easily get awa with 512 MB of Ram, probably even less.
3494[20:44:51] <dondelelcaro> more than 1G of swap is likely overkill for most workflows
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3497[20:45:14] <well_laid_lawn> depends on if you suspend to ram
3498[20:45:18] <zomaar> yes it uses swap for a short moment instead of claiming caches
3499[20:45:23] <n4dir> i never do it myself, but seem to recall that if one hybernates/suspends (?) one will need as much swap as RAM ?
3500[20:45:31] <zomaar> but practically that is irrelevant
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3502[20:45:35] <dondelelcaro> n4dir: yep; that's really the exception
3503[20:45:47] <n4dir> ha. at least not wrong :-)
3504[20:46:01] <dondelelcaro> (and really there, you're not using it as swap, you're using it as a place to store a memory image)
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3507[20:46:46] <zomaar> you mean tmpfs?
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3509[20:47:17] <dondelelcaro> zomaar: no, I mean for hibernation; laptops are odd
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3511[20:47:21] <zomaar> oh that
3512[20:47:27] <zomaar> I think tmpfs can be put in swap...
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3514[20:48:21] <n4dir> fun-fact: Eric Raymond wrote something like "with such huge amount of RAM we have these days, sometimes even 64 MB, Swap is hardly needed"
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3518[20:48:45] <dondelelcaro> yeah, like many things ESR, it was wrong
3519[20:48:46] <zomaar> Lol.
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3522[20:49:09] <n4dir> i meant to speak of 64 MB as much
3523[20:49:14] <zomaar> jelly: My problem seems solved with 4.9.
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3525[20:49:33] <petn-randall> dondelelcaro: No no, ESR is always right. I saw it in a web comic years ago.
3526[20:49:36] <somiaj> I don't use swap on my desktop, though 12gigs of ram and I barley use 2-3 gigs + cache
3527[20:49:44] <dondelelcaro> petn-randall: touche
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3529[20:50:54] <dondelelcaro> somiaj: yeah; one of mine uses about 900M of swap. It really depends
3530[20:51:23] <dondelelcaro> (and it has 128G of ram)
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3534[20:54:54] <Fahrradkette> what desktop environment is good for a slow netbook?
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3536[20:56:13] <dondelelcaro> Fahrradkette: I'm a fan of just a window manager; I personally use i3. But other people like XFCE or similar things
3537[20:56:20] <n4dir> xfce for sure. enlightenment is also easy on ressources. i ain't got any experience with lxde
3538[20:57:07] <n4dir> like already mentioned with a window-manager you will get even more small
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3541[20:57:29] <Fahrradkette> thanks guys:)
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3544[20:59:10] <MayJay> Is there a script to upgrade Debian from Debian 8 (Jessie) to Debian 9?
3545[20:59:25] <somiaj> no scrit, but apt can do this, read the release notes
3546[20:59:41] <MayJay> ah with dist-upgrade?
3547[20:59:44] <haircode> Fahrradkette: i3 is a very good solution if you want to go minimal. Great with multiple screens!
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3549[20:59:58] <RoyK> !upgrade
3550[20:59:59] <dpkg> Upgrades keep your box from getting r00ted and reboots let you run new kernels. Stop obsessing about uptime already. It's not 1996. Refresh the lists of available packages "apt update", and then an "apt upgrade". Ask me about <security>. If you upgrade to a new stable version of Debian, read its release notes first. Ask me about <jessie->stretch>.
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3553[21:00:11] <methiew> hi guys
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3555[21:00:32] <RoyK> MayJay: yes, just edit /etc/apt/sources.list first to change distro name
3556[21:00:34] <methiew> hi have some problems with ATI driver on debian9
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3558[21:00:53] <MayJay> ah ok thx, i will read the release notes
3559[21:01:06] <methiew> free driver make CSGO very laggy and i think proprietary drivers can do it better, so how i can install them?
3560[21:01:33] <methiew> i've amd radeon 6470m
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3566[21:06:39] <mnuhmnuh> methiew: you may need nonfree enabled to get proprietary blobs.
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3571[21:07:54] <mnuhmnuh> methiew: note nonfree was intended to constrain devs, not users. be free.
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3574[21:08:38] <methiew> how i activate nonfree?
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3576[21:09:01] <annadane> just add contrib and non-free to your /etc/apt/sources.list
3577[21:09:10] <methiew> okay
3578[21:09:13] <annadane> see replaced-url
3579[21:09:32] <annadane> as far as which driver you need i don't know
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3584[21:12:34] <somiaj> methiew: there are not any priority drivers for amd in debian. the old fglrx drivers were disconintuned and no longer shipped with debian, and the new amdgpupro drivers are not available for debian.
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3586[21:12:55] <somiaj> most likely you just need the non-free firmware, not a driver. install firmware-amd-graphics package in stretch
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3588[21:13:49] <methiew> ok thx
3589[21:13:57] <braininabat> hello everybody, have you ever had the problem that using nano causes a segmentation fault? I've trying to find a solution to this but cannot find much information. Every time I launch nano it throws a segmenation fault, any ideas?
3590[21:14:31] <annadane> i guess it depends on what the seg fault says
3591[21:14:37] <annadane> i feel it's not enough information
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3593[21:15:25] <somiaj> braininabat: what version of debian are you running?
3594[21:15:49] <somiaj> annadane: seg faults don't say much except seg fault, one would need to do a backtrace to get more info.
3595[21:15:55] <braininabat> somiaj: jessie
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3597[21:16:20] <somiaj> braininabat: this is very strange behavior for nano in jessie. Have you mixed in any third party soruces, packages, that are not from the offical debian repo.
3598[21:16:49] <n4dir> does it segfault for both, root and user (assuming you don't use sudo instead)? If you quickly create another user, does it segfault for him too?
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3604[21:19:01] <somiaj> I see a few bugs about nano segfaulting when stretch was testing, but nothing about jessie, though they might be related.
3605[21:19:04] <somiaj> ,v nano
3606[21:19:05] <judd> Package: nano on amd64 -- wheezy: 2.2.6-1+b1; jessie: 2.2.6-3; stretch: 2.7.4-1; buster: 2.9.1-1; sid: 2.9.1-1
3607[21:19:46] <somiaj> but one mentiones an issue with nano not liking the C locale, though I would have expcted this to have been detected during jessies freeze, so it still seems odd to me
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3609[21:20:20] <braininabat> somiaj: mmm.... i see now some packages that have been upgraded to next release, do you think that might have broken something?
3610[21:20:44] <somiaj> yes if you are mixing jessie and stretch you could have very strange bugs that should not be present.
3611[21:20:47] <somiaj> !don't break debian
3612[21:20:48] <dpkg> it has been said that dont break debian is replaced-url
3613[21:21:26] <somiaj> at this point it would probably be best to fully upgrade to stretch
3614[21:21:35] <somiaj> since downgrading is nto really supported, and stretch is now stable
3615[21:21:45] <annadane> should've asked that first.
3616[21:21:53] <annadane> re: mixed sources
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3619[21:22:18] <mnuhmnuh> annadane: hope for the best, expect the worst.
3620[21:22:47] <braininabat> thank you, I will consider doing that, thank you! Have a nice rest of the day...
3621[21:22:49] <somiaj> annadane: nano segfaulting on every file being opened would be an RC bug, so it is a good guess that some mixing was going on.
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3624[21:23:32] <annadane> braininabat, also read the stretch release notes
3625[21:23:46] <annadane> replaced-url
3626[21:24:07] <braininabat> annadane: thanks
3627[21:24:07] <mnuhmnuh> it can be very frustrating to be accused of doing *really stupid !@#$* when you're just an innocent newb who's stumbled into something you can't understand.
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3629[21:25:19] <somiaj> I view it as more informing the user and giving resources to read and learn from. Usuauly one learns this the hard way and stops mixing in the future (despite many baddly written blogs saying you should)
3630[21:26:05] <somiaj> so I wasn't meaning to accuse the user, but inform them. that don't break debian wiki link is a good page for new users to read, it does lay out some things you should avoid that are commonly mentioned on bad blogs.
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3632[21:26:51] <n4dir> there are not many things you need to know if you want to run debian without much problems. Imho a bit of frustrating is an acceptabe price to learn those few things and not forget them ever.
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3634[21:27:24] <mnuhmnuh> somiaj: no accusing you here; it's amazing how long it's taking some users to get that stuff.
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3643[21:34:10] <oForTuNa40> ls-al
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3664[21:49:22] <tbsaunde> anybody happen to know about pam_limits configuration? if I have '* - nofile 65536' and below it '<user> - nofile 100000' to give <user> 100k file descriptors, but limit most users to 65536 it seems <user> only actually gets 65536, does the <user> line have to come first?
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3677[21:54:34] <somiaj> tbsaunde: systemd may have something to do with it, I recall trying to set up some limits, and finally had to set them in a systemd unit file for a service. This is not the same situation, but maybe systemd is involved.
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3680[21:56:55] <tbsaunde> hm maybe, that would be irritating
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3682[21:57:22] <somiaj> tbsaunde: replaced-url
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3684[21:57:50] <somiaj> seems you can set this via the user@uid.service file, and can overwrite the default setings with /etc/systemd/system/user@uid.service.d/limit.conf and putting the limit in there.
3685[21:58:33] <somiaj> where uid is the user you wish to change the limit for, I think you would have to modify the generic user@ unit for default limits. Unsure on the details here, but I think systemd is what is causing things to work differently than you are use to
3686[21:58:38] <tbsaunde> hm, this service isn't being run by systemd
3687[21:58:53] <tbsaunde> and I don't think systemd --user is running on this machine at all
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3690[21:59:59] <somiaj> tbsaunde: systemctl status, you don't see user.slice or user@uid.service beign run?
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3706[22:07:28] <tbsaunde> somiaj: hm actually I do
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3757[22:34:29] <Quick_Wango> Hi! What could be reasons for a pin-priority to not apply? I have 2 origin pins, one works, the other does not.
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3759[22:35:03] <Quick_Wango> Package: *, Pin: origin packages.sury.oirg and Pin-Priority: 1000
3760[22:35:15] <Quick_Wango> the priority however still stays on 990
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3772[22:38:20] <jcelerier> hello :)
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3774[22:38:47] <jcelerier> I had been using getty's autologin feature on my computer, but since a relatively recent update, instead of loggin-in automatically, it still asks for the pasword
3775[22:38:48] <sparrow1> hello
3776[22:38:53] <jcelerier> (not for the username though)
3777[22:38:55] <tedel> hello everybody. is this a good place to ask for help about Postfix/Dovecot?
3778[22:39:01] <jcelerier> does someone knows where I could change this ?
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3783[22:40:32] <jcelerier> my systemd unit file looks like "ExecStart=-/sbin/agetty -a my_username -o '-p -- \\u' --noclear %I $TERM"
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3797[22:45:15] <annadane> tedel, assuming you're on stable, yes
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3805[22:49:13] <Somelauw> I'm using Debian testing and recently noticed that in the login-screen(lightdm) there is no option to shutdown anymore. Is this a choice by debian or by lightdm and how to get it back?
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3807[22:49:31] <annadane> !debian-next
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3810[22:49:31] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on Freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
3811[22:49:34] <annadane> Somelauw, ^
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3818[22:50:43] <Somelauw> okay, i'll continue discussion there
3819[22:50:54] <Somelauw> Why split channels over two networks by the way?
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3824[22:51:33] <d9867eb> hi again
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3829[22:53:04] <sparrow1> Somelauw: good question. i wonder this too
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3831[22:53:16] <d9867eb> where can I wish pakcages to be added to Debian repos?
3832[22:53:33] <jhutchins> ,v squirrelmail
3833[22:53:34] <judd> Package: squirrelmail on amd64 -- wheezy: 2:1.4.23~svn20120406-2; wheezy-security: 2:1.4.23~svn20120406-2+deb7u1; jessie: 2:1.4.23~svn20120406-2+deb8u1; jessie-security: 2:1.4.23~svn20120406-2+deb8u1
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3835[22:53:52] <sparrow1> if you love debian raise your hand
3836[22:54:03] *** Joins: mrig (~mrig@replaced-ip)
3837[22:54:10] <d9867eb> I raise my hand
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3839[22:54:40] <Quick_Wango> it seems like my .pref file for the repo pin is not applied at all...
3840[22:54:40] <Somelauw> sparrow1: I found a bug report on some redhat/fedora related page: replaced-url
3841[22:55:14] <tedel> annadane, may I write to you a private message?
3842[22:55:30] <annadane> tedel, no, just ask your question in the channel
3843[22:55:35] *** Quits: thiras (~thiras@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3844[22:55:55] <Somelauw> and a way that would presumably enable it again
3845[22:56:20] <tedel> ok, no problem. my VPS is running Debian Wheezy. I updated Let's Encrypt certificates a few days ago and now I cannot download emails to the email client
3846[22:56:39] <Quick_Wango> I can pin the package from the origin, but not the entire origin ?
3847[22:56:57] <tedel> I would like to know how can I find what is the error, but I am not a sysadmin
3848[22:57:19] <tedel> postfix is running, dovecot is running
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3850[22:57:59] <loeken_> tedel, you might want to consider updating wheezy :)
3851[22:58:13] <loeken_> also if you have log problems tail -f /var/log/mail.log
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3853[22:58:41] <d9867eb> loeken_, upgrade to stretch
3854[22:58:47] <d9867eb> :)
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3856[22:59:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1660
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3858[22:59:23] <loeken_> d9867eb, wrong user?
3859[22:59:24] <tedel> hi loejen_ I want to do that as well, but I am a bit scared of breaking everything
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3861[22:59:39] <loeken_> then backup first :)
3862[22:59:46] <d9867eb> loeken_, yes sorry
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3865[23:00:10] <tedel> ok, we were all ignorant one day. so what should I do first? upgrade or try to solve the email issue?
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3867[23:00:24] <d9867eb> tedel, stretch is a very nice release
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3869[23:00:36] <d9867eb> where can I wish pakcages to be added to Debian repos?
3870[23:00:49] <petemc> !rfp
3871[23:00:50] <dpkg> Request For Package (RFP) is the way to ask for a piece of software to be included in Debian. See replaced-url
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3875[23:01:18] <tedel> I use a rolling release Linux in my computer, so I am not used to such upgrades
3876[23:01:45] <tedel> :'(
3877[23:02:14] <d9867eb> tedel, dont you use Debian?
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3879[23:02:23] <ikonia> what does a rolling release have to do with a bad certificae ?
3880[23:02:32] <RoyK> tedel: sid?
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3884[23:03:20] <tedel> I use Debian stable in a VPS, yes
3885[23:03:30] <tedel> (Stable wheezy)
3886[23:03:46] <loeken_> tedel, about your actual problem, did you take a look at the mail.log :) ?
3887[23:04:16] <d9867eb> wheezy is oldoldstable, not stable
3888[23:04:31] <loeken_> and in 3 months EOL iirc :)
3889[23:04:37] <tedel> yes, there are a few "lost connection after AUTH" messages
3890[23:05:36] <tedel> also "SASL LOGIN authentication failed:" plus a code...
3891[23:05:49] <ikonia> think about this logically
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3893[23:06:03] <loeken_> you said you couldnt download files tedel so perform that action ;)
3894[23:06:04] <ikonia> you where using a working mail system, you updated letsencypt certs.....it stopped working
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3896[23:06:07] <d9867eb> petemc, should I use reportbug?
3897[23:06:08] *** Joins: cdown (~cdown@replaced-ip)
3898[23:06:20] <tedel> right
3899[23:06:23] <ikonia> where should you look first
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3902[23:06:37] <tedel> the certificates?
3903[23:06:44] <ikonia> that seems logical
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3905[23:06:48] <ikonia> verify the certificate chain
3906[23:07:01] <tedel> ok, how do I do that?
3907[23:07:18] <ikonia> you updated the certs, how are you verifying this is working ?
3908[23:07:19] <tedel> postfix config file, correct?
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3910[23:07:31] <ikonia> postfix config is nothing to do with the certs
3911[23:07:37] <ikonia> beyond pointing at the physical file
3912[23:07:43] <loeken_> something like openssl s_client -connect yourmail:25 -starttls smtp
3913[23:07:48] <loeken_> should do the trick i guess ;)
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3915[23:08:20] <petemc> d9867eb: yes
3916[23:08:35] <d9867eb> petemc, ok thanks
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3922[23:13:48] <tedel> loeken_ it connected
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3931[23:15:06] <tedel> but it reads "verify return code: 18 (self signed certificate)"
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3934[23:16:15] <loeken_> so its using a self signed certificate ;)
3935[23:16:45] <tedel> is that causing the error with the email?
3936[23:17:09] <loeken_> i dont you know your error you only said you cannot download files
3937[23:17:15] <loeken_> you never told an error
3938[23:17:39] <Quick_Wango> Can anyone explain this? replaced-url
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3950[23:21:31] <tedel> ok, the email client connects and exits. I thought it was just because there were not new emails, but then I noticed there is a long file on /var/mail/[user]
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3953[23:21:52] <tedel> I tried opening that file with nano, and yes, there are many emails there
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3956[23:22:42] <jehorn> I have a small netbook, one of the HP Mini things lying around. What window manager would you guys suggest that could be made kind of into more or less a full desktop? - I don't want to use XFCE or LXDE, would FVWM be a good window manager to use? I'm looking for lightweight.
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3960[23:27:14] <tedel> I'll come back later, guys. thank you for the help anyway
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3970[23:33:42] <somiaj> jehorn: I like fvwm, but it does require you learn its syntax to configure it. It is very configurable, but does require a lot of work to get it like you want. i3 and openbox seem to be popular, a bit more modern of a wm and many seem to like the defaults.
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3973[23:35:30] <armin> somiaj: like the very first thing i3 users do is re-mapping left/right/up/down to HJKL?
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3976[23:36:19] <somiaj> armin: unsure, I use fvwm and like it, I just know that many would rather not dive into the config as much and i3 and openbox seem very popular
3977[23:36:46] <armin> somiaj: i've never met a person in my whole life that uses i3 or openbox but didn't touch the config.
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3981[23:38:12] <somiaj> My comment was more less had to be messed with than fvwm.
3982[23:38:16] <armin> somiaj: quite frankly, i disagree with defaults more than most of my friends, but still, using i3 without configuring it seems pretty much impossible to me.
3983[23:38:33] <armin> somiaj: no offense. :)
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3985[23:39:46] <somiaj> agreed, part of a wm is being able to configure it to your liking. I just like to give alternatives to my prefered wm fvwm, and I just see a lot of people using i3 and openbox.
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3991[23:40:41] <armin> somiaj: did you ever try using fvwm with a compositor?
3992[23:40:44] <Sabotender> does anyone know anything about an 'errdata' test for AMD?
3993[23:41:08] <somiaj> armin: only to see it could be done, I really have no need for a compositor. My desktop has looked the same going on 10+ years.
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3995[23:41:18] <armin> somiaj: did it work?
3996[23:41:28] <somiaj> yea, compton can work with fvwm
3997[23:41:35] <armin> interesting. :)
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3999[23:42:16] <somiaj> I didn't do more than just test it out, to see oh, fancy!! then turned it off, but I know of people who use comtpon with fvwm and seem to like it.
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4002[23:43:32] <armin> somiaj: are you the type of person that never changes the wallpaper, too? :)
4003[23:43:38] <bravvve22> i'v registred multiple domain names,and tomcat installed on my debian machine,how can relay every domain to his web application
4004[23:43:48] <somiaj> armin: I use my photos, so that changes once every 3-4 years or so.
4005[23:44:08] <armin> bravvve22: i'd recommend using nginx as a reverse proxy for that.
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4007[23:44:39] <somiaj> Sabotender: I'm unsure what an errdata test is, do you have some goal? Have you installed the microcode for your amd cpu?
4008[23:45:15] <bravvve22> ok thanks
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4010[23:46:08] <armin> bravvve22: make sure to not run tomcat as root, as a minumum security measure.
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4012[23:46:53] <Sabotender> some type of Ryzen stress test, but I think I found it. I think
4013[23:47:28] <somiaj> Sabotender: I don't know of any stress tests, but do recommend you install the microcode, you'll probably get better results with current microcode.
4014[23:47:49] <Sabotender> microcode?
4015[23:48:01] <Sabotender> well I want to see if my Ryzen is affected by some 'rare' bug
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4018[23:49:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1653
4019[23:49:02] <somiaj> !microcode
4020[23:49:03] <dpkg> Microcode are instructions/structures for implementing high-level machine code within processors. The Linux kernel can load updated microcode on most x86 processors. Microcode patches for Intel and AMD64 CPUs are packaged for Debian as intel-microcode and amd64-microcode respectively; installing the relevant package is recommended to ensure system stability. Ask me about <non-free sources>. replaced-url
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4022[23:49:32] <somiaj> Sabotender: basically non-free firmware for the cpu, it will contain any fixes or improvments from amd for your cpu.
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4031[23:54:31] <bravvve22> how can i redirect all http/https resquets from apache to tomcat?
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4035[23:55:17] <somiaj> various ways, but why run apache if you are redirecting all requests? You can use iptables for port forwarding, you can also configure apache to use another server and function kinda as a proxy.
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4039[23:56:26] <somiaj> bravvve22: armin suggestion was use ngnix for this and not apache.
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