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• 1[00:00:13] <ratrace> slim containers are typically built from outside, without package manager inside them
• 2[00:00:34] <ratrace> if you wanna treat your container as a VM, with package management, then you have to accept the bloat
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• 7[00:01:40] <velix> Thanks for your reply, but you don't want to try to help me with the problem at all, just give me your opinion derogatory. That's not helping. Well, I'll check with Reddit.
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• 19[00:11:10] <tds> velix: how did you create the container's rootfs?
• 20[00:11:17] <tds> oh, they're gone
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• 73[01:17:57] <eblip> hey i tried to install zoom on buster ..and i got this error replaced-url
• 74[01:18:01] <eblip> any ideas
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• 77[01:19:16] <jmcnaught> eblip: that looks like a warning not an error. I don't know what it means, but the last line says that zoom-client was installed.
• 78[01:19:44] <eblip> hmm ...i tried to start it using zoom at command line and it doesnt seem to be there
• 79[01:20:09] <eblip> this is the first time i have used snap...do i have to go into environment or something
• 80[01:20:19] <eblip> whereis zoom shows nothing
• 81[01:20:32] <jmcnaught> eblip: I don't know how to use snap programs, did it add an icon to your menus?
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• 83[01:21:52] <ratrace> eblip: you have to add /snap/bin or whatsit to your $PATH or use absolute paths
• 84[01:22:01] <eblip> no jmcnaught ..i use xmonad and i have dmenu but it is not in there
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• 86[01:22:07] <eblip> ah wow ..that makes sense
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• 88[01:22:18] <eblip> yes i found /snap directory
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• 90[01:22:37] <eblip> thanks ratrace and jmcnaught
• 91[01:22:41] <ratrace> yw
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• 93[01:24:20] <ratrace> eblip: I wonder if that even works, given the warnings
• 94[01:26:10] <eblip> well the path is up now ....gonna give it a try ..i havent got a webcam in though
• 95[01:26:17] <eblip> maybe that has something to do with it.
• 96[01:27:48] <ratrace> possibly, but I think it's more related to version of snapd used. seems like the snap requires interfaces not present in debian's version of snap.
• 97[01:29:30] <eblip> ah ok ..ill look into it
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• 99[01:29:55] <ratrace> eblip: you can inquire in #ubuntu, I think ogra is a regular there
• 100[01:30:18] <ratrace> it's ubuntu software anyway, they're the upstream
• 101[01:30:39] <eblip> hmm, i think i was banned in ubuntu about 4 years ago..and i must have wound them up as my name is probably still on the list
• 102[01:31:03] <eblip> haha ..not banned
• 103[01:31:10] <eblip> was a long time ago though
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• 112[01:38:17] <annadane> ubuntu is african for "can't install debian"
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• 122[01:40:32] <ratrace> fierce! :)
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• 132[01:45:47] <eblip> ha ha
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• 166[02:35:26] <bomb> do non-free NVIDIA driver and tools have any sort of telemetry, analytics, error reporting, etc. built in?
• 167[02:36:00] <sponix> bomb: after close examination of the source -- I'd say No ;)
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• 169[02:36:46] <bomb> lol
• 170[02:36:56] <sney> there's some stuff in nvidia-driver-bin including something called "nvidia-debugdump"
• 171[02:37:08] <bomb> I mean, it's closed-source, but it would still be known if it ever tries to do that, right?
• 172[02:37:49] <sney> replaced-url
• 173[02:38:04] <sponix> bomb: well I don't see any "nvidia.com" type DNS queries in my pi-hole logging -- If that makes you sleep better at night
• 174[02:38:39] <sney> bomb: I see sponix is assuming your real question is whether your non-free driver is phoning home. is that your real question?
• 175[02:39:05] <bomb> sney: phoning home sounds like the right description, yeah
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• 177[02:40:31] <sney> well, this nvidia-driver-bin thing looks like it *could* send a bug report directly to nvidia after a crash, though the utility is right there so you can see what kind of info it would send if it did
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• 179[02:42:46] <bomb> I think I should still add a line for nvidia.com in my /etc/hosts file
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• 182[02:43:46] <sney> I doubt anything is being sent without your knowledge, but that wouldn't hurt anything I guess
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• 184[02:47:17] <bomb> I suspect very few would raise their voice if a non-free package does stuff like that, because it's the user's choice to use non-free after all
• 185[02:47:19] <bomb> but I might be wrong
• 186[02:47:56] <sney> it would make the news somewhere
• 187[02:48:29] <sney> unless the eula says that you consent to send telemetry anyway
• 188[02:48:43] <sney> well, no. even then. people would make a stink.
• 189[02:49:39] <annadane> the package you REALLY have to watch out for is emacs-common-non-dfsg, stallman gets all your n00dz
• 190[02:49:48] <annadane> (yes this is a joke)
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• 192[02:54:08] <sponix> bomb: I'm not 100% about error reporting in case of crash. But I can tell you from general network monitoring the Nvidia binaries don't just have traffic -- Like say, Windows RGB Software by Razer or something :)
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• 196[02:55:05] <sponix> I do honestly recommend having a look for yourself if worried though, as in this frame of mind, my word alone is unlikely to make matters better
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• 216[03:28:01] <JackMerryYoung> so,debian is a software...
• 217[03:28:33] <JackMerryYoung> debian buster is a good version
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• 222[03:29:44] <M_aD> Debian is a Linux based distribution, a OS (Operating System). Not "a software".... ;)
• 223[03:30:05] <sney> it's a collection of a lot of different software under one roof
• 224[03:31:20] <M_aD> also true
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• 226[03:32:20] <JackMerryYoung> follow book,book good
• 227[03:33:07] <JackMerryYoung> ah,how to install libisl 0.15?
• 228[03:33:25] <JackMerryYoung> apt install libisl-dev?
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• 231[03:33:52] <JackMerryYoung> aa
• 232[03:34:01] <pingfloyd> JackMerryYoung: generally you shouldn't need to manually install libs.
• 233[03:34:05] <sney> !search
• 234[03:34:06] <dpkg> Please search for things rather than just asking, e.g. «apt-cache search regex», or with <aptitude search>. The following ways can locate packages that own a file (installed, or candidate for install): «dpkg -S /bin/foo», <apt-file>, <pdo> (online) and «/msg judd help file» (bot). <search dpkg> for factoids. See replaced-url
• 235[03:34:21] <pingfloyd> JackMerryYoung: and -dev libs are for compiling
• 236[03:34:21] <JackMerryYoung> dpkg
• 237[03:34:38] <pingfloyd> JackMerryYoung: debian splits packages between runtime and build components
• 238[03:34:50] <JackMerryYoung> I'm building lfs
• 239[03:35:22] <JackMerryYoung> !search
• 240[03:35:22] <dpkg> Please search for things rather than just asking, e.g. «apt-cache search regex», or with <aptitude search>. The following ways can locate packages that own a file (installed, or candidate for install): «dpkg -S /bin/foo», <apt-file>, <pdo> (online) and «/msg judd help file» (bot). <search dpkg> for factoids. See replaced-url
• 241[03:36:02] <JackMerryYoung> see
• 242[03:36:24] <JackMerryYoung> ping
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• 254[03:43:47] <laughingtiger> I love debian, the best OS in the world.
• 255[03:44:57] *** Quits: JackMerryYoung (~JackMerry@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
• 256[03:45:00] <annadane> ^ same.
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• 263[03:50:36] <laughingtiger> sometimes some crappy services in windows suddenly eats cpu, and I can't even play a video smoothly, and they say it's my hdd's fault. sometimes there's a line appears randomly in videos on windows, but not a single time on debian. on windows, it's always click click click with mouse, even when maxing and minimizing a window,makes my right shoulder sick, makes me whole body sick. while on debian, it's always keyboard, makes me feel very comfortable.
• 264[03:50:36] <laughingtiger> crapdows.
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• 270[03:58:12] <laughingtiger> and the ugly looks of windows, no matter how much effort they put to try to decorate it, it's just ugly, the more they try to improve the outlooks, the uglier it becomes, like an ugly person, the more he/she try to do a makeup, the more disgusting they're.
• 271[04:00:02] *** Quits: Tom01 (~tom@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 272[04:00:34] <sney> laughingtiger: this is a support channel, if you don't have a debian usage question please go chat somewhere else
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• 274[04:01:17] <laughingtiger> sney, IKR
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• 276[04:01:56] <laughingtiger> since noone is talking, why not say sth amusing, and true.
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• 278[04:02:16] <sney> I'm sure you can find somewhere appropriate to complain about windows.
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• 280[04:03:34] <laughingtiger> sney, :)
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• 282[04:05:22] <JackMerryYoung> het
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• 316[05:00:43] <enthdegree> Hello all
• 317[05:01:41] <enthdegree> i am trying to scp onto my debian server but it does not work. I can ssh fine using a privkey using `ssh user@ip` but `scp myFile user@ip:myPath` times out
• 318[05:02:28] <enthdegree> is this because of a configuration setting somewhere? it is debian with apache2 installed, otherwise completely untouched
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• 327[05:07:54] <somiaj> maybe scp -vvv ... will give more output to see what is going on
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• 329[05:08:26] <enthdegree> it hangs on the connecting command
• 330[05:09:33] <somiaj> scp needs to login, could there be some login scrip in the users .bashrc for eample causing problems?
• 331[05:09:48] <somiaj> you could also try rsync.
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• 334[05:17:52] <enthdegree> huh if i change it to its website name it works
• 335[05:17:57] <enthdegree> (q3q.net or ebn0.net)
• 336[05:18:09] <enthdegree> i guess i will just use that
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• 362[06:04:37] <jaggz> why's pastebin considering a lot of my recent pastes of sourcecode as spam?
• 363[06:04:47] <jaggz> it's really frustrating
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• 365[06:04:56] <jaggz> (paste.debian.net)
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• 369[06:07:47] <jaggz> oh and this is cool too replaced-url
• 370[06:07:55] <jaggz> "Get this repository: git clone ....."
• 371[06:08:07] <jaggz> so I clone it.. and get: warning: You appear to have cloned an empty repository.
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• 374[06:12:32] <jaggz> we should just call apt 'a'. nothing else is 'a'.
• 375[06:13:40] <jaggz> and apple should call their spreadsheet software "numbers", because *that's* not rude.
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• 447[08:24:53] <kristijonas> I'm just wondering what is the correct (secure) way opening and editing files that requires root access? I remember someone telling me how wrong this is to use for example nautilus as root
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• 458[08:32:06] <ansimita> kristijonas: sudo $EDITOR /path/to/file ?
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• 461[08:36:54] <kristijonas> ansimita: oh, okay, I see.
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• 468[08:47:19] <choice> Out if interest what Linux would do these days when you press ctrl+alt+backspace - I did. What happened was that the screen went black for a second, then some kind of login screen turned up. I logged in. All my windows were gone. I rebooted. The it looks like a clean reboot after closing all my windows manually. What happened?
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• 472[08:49:44] <themill> Ctrl+Alt+Backspace can be configured to kill your X session
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• 474[08:50:03] <choice> Aha
• 475[08:50:30] <choice> So since the X session started the applications that displayed windows (like firefox) they got killed along the way?
• 476[08:51:03] <themill> yes, when X is killed, everything running inside the X session is killed too
• 477[08:51:36] <choice> I wonder why Firefox and Chromium did not come back with the question if I want to restore my windows after the reboot.
• 478[08:51:53] <choice> They usually do when I turn off the machine while they are running.
• 479[08:52:03] <bouba> hi, Midori doesn't have sound, i tried to install pulseaudio but nothing happened, any other suggestion?
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• 481[08:56:14] <bouba> the sound is hard a matter in linux
• 482[08:56:24] <bouba> a b h
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• 544[10:11:12] <ratrace> bouba: can you confirm that the sound otherwise works?
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• 547[10:12:33] <bouba> ratrace, i solved the issue ..... apt-get update --fix-missing + apt-get install gstreamer1.0-als
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• 551[10:13:50] <bouba> i use alsamixer otherwise we need gstreamer1.0-pulseaudio
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• 553[10:14:04] <zu22> test
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• 559[10:18:57] <ratrace> bouba: well yes, PA is tested and supported, you should use PA. Really no reason not to.
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• 561[10:19:20] <ratrace> you _can_ use ALSA only, but then you're on your own to fix bugs and figure out what's not working.
• 562[10:20:10] <bouba> i started by netinstall ...
• 563[10:20:40] <swift110> hey all
• 564[10:21:01] <swift110> I am loving debian on this t420 and wondering why I didn't do this a lot sooner
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• 629[11:17:15] <donix> Hello
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• 702[12:45:32] <AquaL1te> any advice about which one to use? in terms of best? i now use apticron, but i now also see the unattended-upgrades. which seems more integrated into apt since it's the backend of APT::Periodic::Unattended-Upgrade, according to the apt show info anyway
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• 705[12:49:22] <ansimita> AquaL1te: apticron(1) "Generate a mail listing packages which are pending an upgrade" whilst unattended-upgrade(8) "automatic installation of security (and other) upgrades" seem like two separate tools?
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• 721[13:08:42] <AquaL1te> ansimita: i'll test them out, there is also a mail option in unattended-upgrade. maybe by just downloading updates, it triggers also an email overview
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• 731[13:20:16] <ratrace> AquaL1te: I recommend apticron instead of unattended-upgrades. Upgrades should be checked and tested, proper services restarted on library updates, which unattended-upgrades doesn't do. also reboots for kernel upgrades, which unattended-upgrades doesn't do.
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• 767[14:00:01] <Malek> Hello everybody, I have Debian buster on my laptop. Recently, I had a problem with making any LAN server. I used to play multiplayer games on LAN where I host the game and make others join, but now I can't host games, but I can join a hosted one. I can't even setup a media server. I don't have any clue what would be the reason for this and I really don't know where should I start from :|
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• 771[14:06:25] <vlt> Malek: I would start by using netcat to listen to a port and then trying to connect to it.
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• 774[14:08:27] <barrett> Malek, you should start from the errors the other pc get when trying to connect
• 775[14:08:44] <barrett> and as other suggested, find the port your game is listening to, using netstat
• 776[14:08:50] <barrett> and try to telnet/netcat on it
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• 779[14:09:23] <Malek> vlt, I don't have any experience with this tool, but thanks, I will try to do this
• 780[14:09:44] <Malek> barrett, my computer doesn't show to others
• 781[14:09:51] <barrett> are you able to ping it?
• 782[14:10:27] <Malek> how?
• 783[14:10:34] <barrett> suppose you have the pc A that hosts the game, you will have an ip on your lan, then from the second pc just go in the terminal and use ping
• 784[14:10:37] <barrett> literally, from the shell
• 785[14:10:39] <barrett> ping ip
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• 788[14:10:47] <barrett> like "ping 192.168.22.11"
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• 790[14:11:47] <Malek> ah okay, and then I can tell if there is a connection?
• 791[14:12:04] <barrett> this tell you that there are no network problems
• 792[14:12:26] <barrett> the lan works, so you know the problem must be into something else like the port is closed or something like that
• 793[14:12:46] <barrett> e.g. that the two pcs "see each other"
• 794[14:13:29] <Malek> I will try this, thanks
• 795[14:13:31] <barrett> also have a read to this replaced-url
• 796[14:13:47] <barrett> for what to do later
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• 826[14:48:37] <Kats99> I wanted to block a website so I added 127.0.0.1 domain.com to /etc/hosts and logged back in but the website still opens.
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• 828[14:49:20] <abrotman> it has to be the exact hostname
• 829[14:50:19] <Kats99> yes like this replaced-url
• 830[14:50:35] <vlt> Kats99: replaced-url
• 831[14:50:52] <flayer> and also without...
• 832[14:51:24] <Kats99> yea and i added replaced-url
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• 835[14:52:44] <aaro> no replaced-url
• 836[14:53:30] <Kats99> ok..
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• 838[14:54:52] <abrotman> Eh, if they're using newer FF, might be bypassing system settings
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• 855[15:08:37] <g0zzy> >>phpmyadmin : Depends: php-twig (>= 2.9) but 2.6.2-2 is to be installed<< Does that mean phpmyadmin is broken in stable?
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• 860[15:11:52] <ksk> ,v phpmyadmin
• 861[15:11:53] <judd> Package: phpmyadmin on amd64 -- jessie: 4:4.2.12-2+deb8u2; jessie-security: 4:4.2.12-2+deb8u9; stretch: 4:4.6.6-4; stretch-proposed-updates: 4:4.6.6-4+deb9u1; buster-backports: 4:4.9.5+dfsg1-2~bpo10+1; bullseye: 4:4.9.5+dfsg1-2; sid: 4:4.9.5+dfsg1-2
• 862[15:11:59] <ksk> I thought it was deprecated?
• 863[15:12:10] <abrotman> g0zzy: or you're missing sources perhaps ?
• 864[15:12:31] <ksk> g0zzy: there does not seem to be a phpmyadmin package in stable. could you provide more details please?
• 865[15:12:33] <abrotman> judd: versions php-twig
• 866[15:12:34] <judd> Package: php-twig on amd64 -- jessie: 1.16.2-1+deb8u1; jessie-security: 1.16.2-1+deb8u1; stretch: 1.24.0-2+deb9u1; stretch-security: 1.24.0-2+deb9u1; buster: 2.6.2-2; buster-backports: 2.12.5-1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 2.12.5-1; sid: 2.12.5-1; experimental: 3.0.3-1
• 867[15:12:44] *** Quits: Zblakany (~Zblakany@replaced-ip) (Quit: ZZZzzz…)
• 868[15:12:48] <abrotman> seems like maybe been mixing?
• 869[15:13:18] <ksk> g0zzy: enable backports, and install phpmyadmin. Do not install a .deb you downloaded somewhere.
• 870[15:13:23] <abrotman> g0zzy: what is `apt-cache policy phpmyadmin` ? (paste.debian.net to show us)
• 871[15:13:31] <ksk> !tell g0zzy about buster backports
• 872[15:13:48] <g0zzy> Yes, sorry - it's in backports
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• 874[15:14:43] <ksk> seems you did not setup it properly. what abrotma-n says.
• 875[15:15:38] <g0zzy> I think maybe i forgot -t buster-backport
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• 897[15:23:40] <g0zzy> Odd that phpmyadmin is not in stable. It's like - standard - isn't it?
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• 899[15:23:50] <abrotman> no
• 900[15:24:01] <ksk> its bad, thats what I know :/ afaik it was like in a really bad state when buster came out, so it was not included.
• 901[15:24:12] <abrotman> it's actively discouraged to use phpmyadmin/phppgadmin
• 902[15:24:14] <ksk> !phpmyadmin
• 903[15:24:14] <dpkg> phpMyAdmin is a tool written in PHP intended to handle MySQL administration over the Internet. Can create and drop databases, create/drop/alter tables, delete/edit/add fields, execute any SQL statement, and manage keys on fields. Read /usr/share/doc/phpmyadmin/README.Debian and run "dpkg-reconfigure phpmyadmin" to configure your web server. replaced-url
• 904[15:24:28] <ksk> okay, that does not really include any disconcerns, nevermind.
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• 912[15:26:58] <oiaohm> g0zzy: ksk and abotman To be correct phpmyadmin is not exactly a standard and it is discouraged on production servers a lot.
• 913[15:27:09] <g0zzy> >>it's actively discouraged to use phpmyadmin/phppgadmin I'm all ears but what's the alternative? I don't want to have to write my own front end to my company database
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• 916[15:27:46] <abrotman> front end for what? creating tables/etc? or entering data?
• 917[15:28:18] <oiaohm> Really there is no alternative like it. Because as soon as you make a web front end and put it out with absolute control over you database it comes a kick me target.
• 918[15:28:25] <oiaohm> that is recommend.
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• 921[15:29:42] <g0zzy> OK. Thought not. Will have to be backports in that case
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• 924[15:30:22] <g0zzy> abrotman: Entering data for company accounts
• 925[15:30:31] <oiaohm> g0zzy: you do get different local run applications taht will control database by ssh
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• 929[15:30:51] <oiaohm> g0zzy: and that not like the massive kick me sing.
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• 931[15:30:55] <oiaohm> sing/sign
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• 934[15:31:02] <abrotman> g0zzy: you sohuld want to create a custom portal/app for that, to ensure better data control .. (assuming it's not open the rest of the internet)
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• 936[15:31:12] <abrotman> IMO anyway
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• 945[15:32:22] <g0zzy> I haven't got the time to be doing that unfortunately
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• 950[15:34:51] <oiaohm> g0zzy: replaced-url
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• 952[15:35:25] <oiaohm> g0zzy: note here with dbeaver its running on your machine and you open up a ssh connection to access the database server that is remote.
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• 954[15:35:36] <oiaohm> You are not leaving up a kick me sign.
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• 958[15:38:16] <g0zzy> oiaohm: Looks like (at first glance) an expensive rewrite of phpmyadmin ;)
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• 968[15:45:08] <g0zzy> Thanks for the input folks
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• 970[15:46:41] <oiaohm> g0zzy: that is not the only one out there it was just the example off the top of head. Do note that the one I pointed to does not run in a webbrowser or on a webserver like phpmyadmin does.
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• 989[16:06:56] <ksk> building a minimal (rest) api with for example python would most likely be the sane approach, yes.
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• 991[16:07:46] <ksk> imho end-user wont really understand phpmyadmin and the usage of it, so you can just resort to "the admin invokes a shell, and does mysql" - really no need nor benefit by having the admin use phpmyadmin
• 992[16:08:11] <ksk> nota that the admin typing in mysql is of course not sane at all..
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• 1018[16:24:06] <oxek> Are the vulnerabilities listed on replaced-url
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• 1022[16:25:25] <vlt> oxek: Chrome and Chromium are not entirely the same.
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• 1025[16:26:30] <annadane> the answer is probably "it depends"
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• 1030[16:31:40] <ratrace> it's bound to version. there's nothing specific about chromium in Debian, except which version it pulled in. some bugs may've been fixed in upstream versions that Debian yet has to pull in.
• 1031[16:31:58] <ratrace> in addition, google-chrome has code not available in chromium which may have bugs of its own.
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• 1033[16:38:24] <oxek> thanks
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• 1067[17:17:12] <Lady_Aleena> Hello. Is there a straight list of font packages that I can copy and paste to the command line install?
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• 1075[17:21:57] <obiwahn> Hi, how to I control which tool is used to show me notifications?
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• 1079[17:24:17] <jmcnaught> Lady_Aleena: there's this but it all looks out of date: replaced-url
• 1080[17:26:20] <Lady_Aleena> jmcnaught, that doesn't look like something I could put after apt-get install
• 1081[17:26:37] <Lady_Aleena> And I guess I should switch over to apt instad of apt-get.
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• 1097[17:41:44] <ratrace> Lady_Aleena: I always make sure I have the trifecta of dejavu, liberation and noto fonts
• 1098[17:42:16] <Lady_Aleena> ratrace, I have those.
• 1099[17:42:20] <phogg> Lady_Aleena: aptitude search '?tag(made-of::font)' -F %p | xargs aptitude install
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• 1101[17:43:32] <jmcnaught> you don't need xargs for that: "aptitude install ~Gmade-of::font" but it won't be able to install everything without resolving conflicts.
• 1102[17:44:05] <phogg> ah, I didn't know you could do that
• 1103[17:44:10] <Lady_Aleena> I am a bit miffed that I don't have every character in unicode in some font package.
• 1104[17:44:58] <Lady_Aleena> jmcnaught, will that do backports?
• 1105[17:45:10] <phogg> it will do everything in your sources.list
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• 1107[17:45:37] <Lady_Aleena> phogg, I though one had to specify to look in backports when installing.
• 1108[17:45:39] <jmcnaught> Lady_Aleena: I don't recommend it. Take a look at what happens if you add -s for simulate: "aptitude -s install ~Gmade-of::font"
• 1109[17:46:08] <Lady_Aleena> jmcnaught, my cli is busy at the moment upgrading what I have already.
• 1110[17:46:38] <Lady_Aleena> It is processing triggers now.
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• 1112[17:47:56] <Lady_Aleena> What are initramfs?
• 1113[17:48:06] <EdePopede> jmcgnh: Tag: culture::hebrew, made-of::font, role::app-data, x11::font
• 1114[17:48:14] * Lady_Aleena closed Firefox-esr while updaing.
• 1115[17:48:28] <EdePopede> i checked some font packages from the list in the wiki, there was only one single entry with debtags
• 1116[17:48:50] <EdePopede> if aptitude relies on them it maybe won't find most of the packages
• 1117[17:49:20] <phogg> package tagging is kind of inconsistent
• 1118[17:49:31] <EdePopede> trumps tweets are more consistent^^
• 1119[17:49:37] <Lady_Aleena> jmcnaught, couldn't aptitude use -n for dry runs like rsynch?
• 1120[17:50:04] * Lady_Aleena head desks for spelling error.
• 1121[17:50:06] <EdePopede> i'd think a lot of packages never had been tagged and nobody cared for it when they were updated
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• 1123[17:50:29] <Lady_Aleena> Yay! Upgrading is done.
• 1124[17:50:51] <jmcnaught> Lady_Aleena: aptitude does not use -n
• 1125[17:51:24] <Lady_Aleena> jmcnaught, I am a sucker for consistency.
• 1126[17:51:42] * Lady_Aleena loves when things are consistent.
• 1127[17:52:15] <EdePopede> Lady_Aleena: then never use coreutils for textfield related things ;)
• 1128[17:52:32] * Lady_Aleena laughs.
• 1129[17:52:40] <EdePopede> or: $ printf "süßöl" | wc -m; printf süßöl | cut -c 8 ### note: 'c' is for "characters"
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• 1131[17:53:08] <Lady_Aleena> EdePopede, what is that?
• 1132[17:53:28] <EdePopede> GNU tools working on multibyte characters
• 1133[17:53:38] <EdePopede> 8 bytes, 5 characters
• 1134[17:54:43] <Lady_Aleena> EdePopede, doesn't the second süßöl need to be quoted, or is the first quote just 'cause.
• 1135[17:55:21] <EdePopede> Lady_Aleena: even their manpages and their text on the byte and character options *head→desk*
• 1136[17:55:52] <Lady_Aleena> EdePopede, Why didn't they use -b for bytes and -c for characters? I don't get it!
• 1137[17:55:57] <EdePopede> Lady_Aleena: i also suck at consistency, but in both directions: i want it but can't keep it up myself ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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• 1140[17:56:32] <Lady_Aleena> EdePopede, my mind just went somewhere else with that statement.
• 1141[17:56:39] <EdePopede> i think they started with -c for chars and then multibyte entered the field. err.. well... *cough*
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• 1152[18:09:32] <Lady_Aleena> Does apt and apt-get have the same options?
• 1153[18:10:19] <karlpinc> I find apt way too chatty for normal use.
• 1154[18:11:38] <karlpinc> And don't see any reason to use it. Not today, not outside of major release upgrades, etc.
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• 1157[18:15:15] <Lady_Aleena> karlpinc, so I can leave my suag alone? replaced-url
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• 1168[18:30:14] <oxek> ,v tlsdate
• 1169[18:30:15] <judd> Package: tlsdate on amd64 -- jessie: 0.0.13-1~deb8u1
• 1170[18:30:28] <oxek> anyone know why tlsdate is not available in buster and above anymore?
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• 1172[18:32:37] <jmcnaught> oxek: try looking it up on replaced-url
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• 1176[18:37:54] <abrotman> Might have something to do with the absence of a maintainer (looking at the last maintainer)
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• 1181[18:41:09] <tichun> Hello, is there information on troubleshooting blank black screen on boot? Kernel is fine, but I have zero output. Tried init=/bin/bash and systemd.unit=emergency.target.
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• 1184[18:42:55] <nkuttler> tichun: did other kernels boot fine? try an older one
• 1185[18:43:33] <nkuttler> tichun: passing some vga mode at boot time might be worth a shot, or replacing the graphics card
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• 1187[18:44:37] <tichun> Thanks for vga, will try. It's a rpi and everything was fine until I messed up Weston modeline. After that I set init=/bin/bash and since I think it's not even getting to Weston
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• 1189[18:44:58] <tichun> I have had vt switching and zapping disabled :p
• 1190[18:45:02] <nkuttler> tichun: a cold reboot could also help
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• 1196[18:51:40] <robi> is there a specific reason for security.debian.org to be non-HTTPS? or am I missing something?
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• 1198[18:52:00] <annadane> !whydoesntaptusehttps
• 1199[18:52:00] <dpkg> replaced-url
• 1200[18:52:12] *** Joins: invra (~invra@replaced-ip)
• 1201[18:53:22] <annadane> ,i apt-transport-https
• 1202[18:53:23] <judd> Package apt-transport-https (oldlibs, optional) in buster/amd64: transitional package for https support. Version: 1.8.2; Size: 145.4k; Installed: 152k
• 1203[18:53:35] <annadane> you can use it if you have that installed, or something
• 1204[18:55:01] <robi> alright, thanks
• 1205[18:55:10] <somiaj> well that package does nothing.
• 1206[18:55:14] <robi> i was just wondering about the inconsistency between deb.debian.org and security.debian.org
• 1207[18:55:21] <robi> somiaj: on older distros it was required i think
• 1208[18:55:26] <robi> now apt has the feature integrated
• 1209[18:55:35] <somiaj> anyways, https support is now end apt by default (no need for a third party package), but it still might need to be configured
• 1210[18:55:39] <annadane> ah ok, i see the description now
• 1211[18:55:43] <annadane> yeah it got changed
• 1212[18:55:46] <annadane> i forget about that
• 1213[18:56:04] <somiaj> that could be, though we tend to try to give info for debian stable here and not assume what other distros are doing (though if still running oldstable it would matter)
• 1214[18:57:02] <somiaj> robi: in genenral apt has its own methods of security data, https doesn't add much to that, so debian due to resources hasn't made all mirrors https.
• 1215[18:57:17] <somiaj> though I do expect things are slowly changing with letsencrypt and certs much easier to deal with than times past
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• 1218[18:58:28] <robi> gotchu
• 1219[18:58:42] <Lady_Aleena> I just found something else that doesn't work with my system, sound files on Wikipedia. I can't hear anything, and when I pulled up pulseaudio volume control, there wasn't a bar showing for it. *sigh* Just another problem with audio for me.
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• 1226[19:03:34] <InnovAnon-Inc> wiki sound files are MIDI, I think. I have trouble playing them, too.
• 1227[19:05:08] <Lady_Aleena> I was on replaced-url
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• 1229[19:05:43] <Lady_Aleena> It looks like it is .ogg
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• 1233[19:06:15] <Lady_Aleena> replaced-url
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• 1241[19:10:21] <robi> Lady_Aleena: which browser? distro version?
• 1242[19:11:23] *** Quits: cnsvc_ (~cnsvc@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 1243[19:11:37] <somiaj> Here on firefox (Though i'm on windows) I have a lag, and often the first few seconds of media won't make sound. Could that be the case and just playing it again works?
• 1244[19:12:11] <InnovAnon-Inc> It is, indeed, an .ogg file. It plays correctly on my system and I'm not seeing a lot on Bing about your problem. Please verify that you have libogg* installed: `dpkg --get-selections | grep -q ogg && echo yes || echo no`
• 1245[19:12:17] <Lady_Aleena> Debian 10 (Buster), XFCE 4.12.5 Firefox 68.8.0esr (64-bit)
• 1246[19:13:04] <Lady_Aleena> InnovAnon-Inc, yes
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• 1249[19:19:02] <Lady_Aleena> I hope I don't have to take scorched earth approach to fixing my audio problems.
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• 1251[19:20:03] <oxek> robi: use deb.debian.org for security as well
• 1252[19:20:14] <robi> oxek: hmm, how so?
• 1253[19:20:17] *** Quits: pileofstraw (~pileofstr@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
• 1254[19:20:23] <robi> is there a special path for security?
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• 1256[19:21:18] <oxek> robi: literally just replace security.debian.org with deb.debian.org in your sources.list
• 1257[19:21:55] <robi> hmmm, i'll try that
• 1258[19:21:59] <robi> ty
• 1259[19:22:45] <oxek> you'll end up with lines like deb replaced-url
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• 1264[19:25:20] <oxek> in my opinion, it should be made default for any new installation of debian
• 1265[19:26:41] <miskatonic> what should be made default?
• 1266[19:27:19] *** Joins: Zardoz (~Zardoz@replaced-ip)
• 1267[19:28:22] <oxek> deb.debian.org as default repo for debian
• 1268[19:28:28] <oxek> including for s.d.o
• 1269[19:28:34] <oxek> and use https as well
• 1270[19:28:48] <ratrace> why d.d.o instead of s.d.o?
• 1271[19:29:15] <oxek> because d.d.o can use more local caches than s.d.o, and supports https
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• 1273[19:29:53] <oxek> 'more local' = geographically closer
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• 1275[19:30:36] <ratrace> what about the issue that made is separate to begin with, mirror resync latency?
• 1276[19:30:40] <ratrace> made *it
• 1277[19:31:19] <oxek> is that still a relevant issue now? d.d.o mirrors resync pretty quickly no?
• 1278[19:31:29] <ratrace> dunno, that's why I'm asking
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• 1280[19:31:46] <ratrace> I usually update test and roll into production, security updates within 30 minutes of receiving the DSA
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• 1284[19:32:48] <oxek> I don't have the data to answer your question unfortunately
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• 1286[19:32:59] <oxek> I would be interested in knowing the answer as well though
• 1287[19:33:34] <oxek> I don't know who to ask "How quickly are d.d.o mirrors updated?"
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• 1289[19:35:48] <ratrace> oxek: well that was the reason s.d.o is a separate URL by default, and not part of d.d.o for other updates
• 1290[19:36:05] <ratrace> to avoid mirror latencies which in some cases can be in days... *glares at OVH*
• 1291[19:36:18] <jhutchins> oxek: https does not provide any additional security for package downloads and increases bandwidth and CPU load.
• 1292[19:36:42] <oxek> jhutchins: https would have protected against all known apt attacks to date :p
• 1293[19:37:02] <jhutchins> oxek: The only reason it's been implemented is for clients that will not allow insecure connecions.
• 1294[19:37:22] <jhutchins> oxek: You are misinformed.
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• 1300[19:38:10] <oxek> jhutchins: replaced-url
• 1301[19:38:14] <oxek> fixed by using https
• 1302[19:38:23] <oxek> I mean, mitigated
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• 1305[19:40:21] <ratrace> packages are signed so https wouldn't bring much to the table other than protecting privacy
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• 1307[19:40:25] <jhutchins> That says it was mitigated by a configuration change in apt, and it was a theoretical vulnerability, not a known attack.
• 1308[19:40:29] <oxek> curiously, they even suggest in that message to use cdn-fastly.deb.debian.org which is the main mirror in d.d.o
• 1309[19:41:07] <oxek> most vulnerabilities are theoretical anyway, but we still fix them
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• 1311[19:41:58] <jhutchins> ratrace: WHich, really, privacy about software downloads?
• 1312[19:42:04] <oxek> ratrace: https helps protect against bugs in apt that a mitm could exploit
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• 1316[19:44:01] <ratrace> jhutchins: well some people consider leaking apps they install as violating their privacy
• 1317[19:44:18] <jhutchins> oxek: Also adds load and complexity, which are exposure risks in their own right.
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• 1320[19:45:20] <ratrace> oxek: yeah but the same bugs can render https ineffective too, eg. connection downgrades
• 1321[19:45:39] <jhutchins> ratrace: There are valid cases, such as countries that outlaw encryption. Most of the ones squawking though are the tinfoil hat crowd.
• 1322[19:46:03] <oxek> jhutchins: replaced-url
• 1323[19:46:32] <oxek> but ignoring the issue of https, d.d.o, even without https, could be a better fit that s.d.o
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• 1325[19:47:55] <jhutchins> The nice thing about OSS is that if you think there's a problem, even if you're wrong you can fix it.
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• 1327[19:48:19] <EdePopede> adding otherwise useless encryption also increases the noise for those in need of it
• 1328[19:48:23] <ratrace> personally I think the https overhead is negligible in 2020
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• 1330[19:49:17] <EdePopede> ratrace: yep. it's as useful as firefox's compressing its json files
• 1331[19:49:52] <somiaj> I think the biggest issue is debian's mirror network is just slow to eveolve. I think apt handels things decent enough and https is there for those who want to use it.
• 1332[19:50:02] <ratrace> EdePopede: depends on the use case
• 1333[19:50:18] <jhutchins> One of the things that is coming out in the unemployment crisis in the U.S. is how much more efficient the old, 1950's era software is than modern code.
• 1334[19:50:54] <EdePopede> today's web is bloated as it could be anyway. fullsized images instead of thumbnails or previews, complete JS frameworks, often more than one, background videos, more CSS than content in text pages....
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• 1337[19:51:45] <EdePopede> just had an image of about 5k*3k crunched down to fit into the sidebar
• 1338[19:51:54] <miskatonic> back to punchcards and paper tapes
• 1339[19:52:03] <GNU\colossus> [19:48:23] <ratrace> personally I think the https overhead is negligible in 2020 - it is, when things go relatively smoothly. but there's problems with HTTPS content (you can't transparently proxy/cache it, for instance) that might bight us in case of a catastrophe that actually affects the Internet.
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• 1341[19:52:26] <ratrace> proxies are MITM
• 1342[19:52:43] <GNU\colossus> "no shit"
• 1343[19:52:53] <EdePopede> wasn't cloudflare breaking up encryption?
• 1344[19:53:03] <ratrace> breaking how?
• 1345[19:53:09] <GNU\colossus> cloudflare is not part of the solution, it's part of the problem :>
• 1346[19:53:14] <EdePopede> !
• 1347[19:55:43] <ratrace> there's nothing inherently wrong with encrypting network traffic, quite the contrary. caching and proxies have been out of fashion since 1990s, and dynamic internet pretty much makes them irrelevant. browsers themselves can cache based on caching directives in teh response, and that's good enough
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• 1350[19:56:31] <miskatonic> everything with cloud is bad, except on overseeable local networks
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• 1353[19:57:28] <dff> how could it be hugely popular if everything is bad with it.
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• 1355[19:57:40] <dff> confusing
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• 1357[19:58:27] <jhutchins> Lots of bad things are popular. Tobbaco.
• 1358[19:58:30] <ratrace> the only thing bad about clouds is centralizing power in teh few cloud mega-providers
• 1359[19:58:44] <miskatonic> because mankind is a bunch of dumb sheeple
• 1360[19:59:13] <GNU\colossus> ratrace, again, you're arguing from a position of abundant bandwidth available and properly working, planet-wide connectivity
• 1361[19:59:15] <ratrace> miskatonic: you do realize that you're now in an irc cloud made up of many machines in one transparent network? if it's bad, please lead by example and /part :)
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• 1363[20:00:31] <miskatonic> the freenode network is not a cloud as it does not replace locally installed software
• 1364[20:01:06] <ratrace> you have some weird definition of a "cloud" then. perhaps you meant just a subset of it then, * services that replace locally installed software.
• 1365[20:01:45] <ratrace> GNU\colossus: yes, which is the vast majority of the internet.
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• 1367[20:02:39] <jhutchins> ratrace: Most people mean the cloud services like AWS, Google, etc. when they say "cloud". There are independent implementations of multi-server applications which can be considered clouds, but that's not what most people mean.
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• 1370[20:03:23] <ratrace> jhutchins: and even then "replacing locally installed software" ist just a small portion of AWS and Google's product portfolio
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• 1373[20:06:11] <jhutchins> The biggest problem with "the cloud" is the unknown and unknowable details of it's underlying implementation by people who are unreachable and unaccountable.
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• 1375[20:07:34] <ratrace> %s/the cloud/many internet services/
• 1376[20:08:20] <oxek> %s/the cloud/someone elses computer/
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• 1379[20:20:56] <jhutchins> Actually, I'm pretty confident of my control when managing something like a remote VMWare virtual machine with direct network access.
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• 1381[20:29:32] <ratrace> I don't know why I have such bad luck with Debian installations on USB sticks. They all start failing after weeks or a few months of being unused. but I have no idea why, just ran badblocks in one, no problem.
• 1382[20:31:17] <ratrace> for example, running ping segfaults in ld-2.28.so . and I can't even run apt to install strace (segfaults there as well)
• 1383[20:31:35] <ksk> the ram/hardware is okay?
• 1384[20:32:36] <ratrace> yes . I've booted the USB stick both in a nspawn chroot, and as a VM with the stick as its "virtual disk" (raw access)
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• 1386[20:32:51] <ratrace> in both cases same segfault.
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• 1390[20:34:44] <ratrace> the /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/ld-2.28.so md5sum seems correct, so the lib isn't corrupt that way. wth
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• 1393[20:36:23] <ratrace> hrm, maybe I can mount the rootfs and try apt-get -o RootDir and install strace that way, just so I can see wth is going on
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• 1395[20:37:31] <ksk> its only a binary, you should be able to just copy it over.
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• 1398[20:39:23] <ratrace> ksk: well, I need the libunwind8 DLLs too
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• 1400[20:39:51] <ksk> ah dependency, did not check that. indeed..
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• 1402[20:40:07] <ratrace> I can copy them over too if that apt-get trick fails
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• 1405[20:41:48] <ratrace> oh hellyeah, it works.
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• 1413[20:47:57] <BlackSalmon> Halp. I can NOT install the pytorch at all. I've tried everything
• 1414[20:48:30] <ksk> ,v pytorch
• 1415[20:48:31] <judd> No package named 'pytorch' was found in amd64.
• 1416[20:48:43] <ksk> BlackSalmon: It does not seem to be part of Debian?
• 1417[20:48:53] <BlackSalmon> I have i386, deb 10.
• 1418[20:49:01] <BlackSalmon> ksk: Well, it kinda is
• 1419[20:49:23] <BlackSalmon> Where else should I look for help if it's not the system problem to install package?
• 1420[20:49:44] <ratrace> BlackSalmon: which repository is that from? doesn't seem part of debian
• 1421[20:49:47] <ksk> by the creator of said package, if its not part of the Debian Project.
• 1422[20:50:50] <ksk> BlackSalmon: How are you trying to install? said project seems to offer pip-packages - I would go for these.
• 1423[20:51:12] <ratrace> in a virtualenv, by the way.
• 1424[20:52:08] <BlackSalmon> I am in venv. I've tried just `pip install pytorch` as well. Then I started looking for that issue on overstackflow and official site but it still send same error
• 1425[20:52:33] <ratrace> BlackSalmon: so what error you get from pip in a virtualenv?
• 1426[20:53:12] <BlackSalmon> No module named 'tools.nnwrap'
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• 1429[20:54:38] <BlackSalmon> but then i've started looking for that error, but it keep telling me: `ERROR: Could not find a version that satisfies the requirement torch==1.2.0 (from versions: 0.1.2, 0.1.2.post1, 0.1.2.post2)` `ERROR: No matching distribution found for torch==1.2.0`
• 1430[20:54:52] <ratrace> BlackSalmon: Exception: You tried to install "pytorch". The package named for PyTorch is "torch"
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• 1433[20:55:39] <BlackSalmon> i missspelled it then, of course I'm trying to donwload "torch" package
• 1434[20:55:43] <ratrace> BlackSalmon: and pypi has it at 1.5.0 you seem to be installing it as part of a requirements.txt update it
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• 1436[20:56:16] <BlackSalmon> update what
• 1437[20:56:27] <Lady_Aleena> InnovAnon-Inc, I just noticed you tried to message me. I have +g set. What was your question in the message?
• 1438[20:56:33] <ratrace> requirements file that wants to pull in torch==1.2.0
• 1439[20:56:56] <ratrace> Lady_Aleena: +1 for your +g :) I run that flag too. highfive, we're a minority.
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• 1441[20:57:12] <BlackSalmon> Well, I just tried to manually download this by `pip install torch==1.2.0 torchvision==0.4.0 -f replaced-url
• 1442[20:57:14] <InnovAnon-Inc> sorry it took so long to get back to you. firstly, I didn't find firefox-esr v68.8.0esr. instead, I found 68.7.0esr-1~deb10u1. next thing is... the .ogg file you provided plays just fine on my machine :( I can upload the dockerfile I used to test it, if you think that my help you
• 1443[20:57:22] <Lady_Aleena> ratrace, with "Lady" in my username, it is a must.
• 1444[20:57:31] <ratrace> BlackSalmon: yeah well don't try to force the version, looks like pypi doesn' thave 1.2.0 any more
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• 1446[20:57:38] <ratrace> Lady_Aleena: indeed. :)
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• 1450[20:58:59] <Lady_Aleena> InnovAnon-Inc, I think I may have to go the scorched earth route with my machine to hopefully fix things.
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• 1452[20:59:13] <BlackSalmon> ratrace: `pip install torch torchvision -f replaced-url
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• 1454[20:59:39] <ratrace> BlackSalmon: just pip install torch ... and if that doesn't work, file a bug report with the developer
• 1455[21:00:05] <ratrace> BlackSalmon: before that, try to pip install -U pip
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• 1457[21:01:43] <BlackSalmon> ratrace: I did update pip, cause it raised error that v.19-sth-sth is outdated and I need 20.1.1
• 1458[21:01:49] <BlackSalmon> Still not really helped
• 1459[21:02:48] <ratrace> BlackSalmon: sorry, it seems your only option is to contact the developers. They also provide a docker, maybe that'd be more helpful and less intrusive on your system
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• 1461[21:03:23] <Lady_Aleena> InnovAnon-Inc, what is a dockerfile by the way?
• 1462[21:03:35] <BlackSalmon> ratrace: thx anyway
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• 1465[21:06:07] <InnovAnon-Inc> the dockerfile is a set of instructions for building a container. basically like a chroot, but more akin to BSD jails. I'm not running debian on my host, so I just installed it in a docker container, so I could get the precise versions of software you specified
• 1466[21:07:06] <ratrace> unlike BSD jails, containers are just namespaces, so they're more akin chroots on steroids
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• 1486[21:32:50] <ersoul> Hi, I have a debian jessie installation on one of my old pc's, is it still recommended to update it to the last stable release through the apt-source list?
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• 1492[21:35:33] <jmcnaught> ersoul: upgrades need to be done one release at a time, so in this case the computer needs to be upgraded to stretch first, then buster. The instructions for how to upgrade are in the release notes, along with what's new and changed: replaced-url
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• 1506[21:46:06] <oxek> Where can I read about safeguard that prevent debian from turning evil? (such as those in control of debian suddenly going rogue, putting advertisement everywhere, and so on)
• 1507[21:46:21] <oxek> who has ultimate control over debian anyway?
• 1508[21:46:51] <sney> there's the debian project leader who is elected every 4(?) years, and all of the debian developers vote on anything that happens
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• 1511[21:47:27] <sney> I don't remember where this is documented, it might be in policy, but you can look at the mailing list resolution for the switch to systemd as an example of the voting process
• 1512[21:49:28] <sney> debian going rogue and putting advertisements everywhere would require a massive conspiracy among academic types who rarely think along the same lines. I'm convinced it's practically impossible
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• 1519[21:53:56] <oxek> so there's not a singular person who can just take debian infrastructure with them and do whatever they want with it?
• 1520[21:54:08] <sney> nope
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• 1523[21:55:49] <jmcnaught> oxek: Debian has a social contract: replaced-url
• 1524[21:56:31] <annadane> we're already evil. >:)
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• 1553[22:11:31] <orb> I've noticed when running debian-based Proxmox Virtual Environment, that vmbr0 appears to always drop RX packets, per ifconfig. I believe this isn't normal, but it seems to be something that exists even if I install the latest proxmox on a second computer. That is, I installed the latest proxmox on another computer and I'm seeing dropped packets there as well. It seems to be causing internet slowness on my network. Slowness only exists when proxmox is
• 1554[22:11:31] <orb> running and all the router LEDs blink like crazy when it's up.
• 1555[22:11:52] <orb> Would anyone have any insight on this?
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• 1557[22:12:51] <orb> I thought it was hardware related at first but the issue seems to follow the OS. As described above, I swapped the hardware entirely.
• 1558[22:13:55] <tds> does the dropped counter continue to go up if you start tcpdump on vmbr0?
• 1559[22:14:53] <flayer> if debian didn't exist, i'd be completely lost what to do OS-wise
• 1560[22:16:15] <flayer> on that note, i should probably make an install usb just in case
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• 1562[22:17:58] <asc> was that the keebler?
• 1563[22:18:08] <asc> te.irc keebler?
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• 1565[22:20:22] <ksk> asc: eh?
• 1566[22:20:53] <ksk> orb: mhhm, not sure, but might that be packets that reach your card, but are not "captured" so to say? (like, packets with a mac that your machine does not recognize) - just guessing here.
• 1567[22:21:56] <asc> ksk: nevermind
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• 1580[22:38:13] <oxek> anyone tried using replaced-url
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• 1587[22:44:10] <ksk> if you want to "monitor outgoing connections" I would suppose there are many apps around for that. pi-hole maybe?
• 1588[22:44:34] <ksk> that thing is for a "subgraph os" which seems to be based on debian, and is "secure" - eh? :P
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• 1591[22:46:35] <Lady_Aleena> InnovAnon-Inc, sorry to drop out like I did, but there were other things at and away from the keyboard that I wanted to get done that I am almost done doing.
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• 1597[22:53:51] <oxek> ksk: pihole can't tell you which app initiated the connection
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• 1599[22:54:31] <oxek> perfect example is this - you currently have no idea if your calculator app is making connections to some irc port somewhere
• 1600[22:54:45] *** ulterior_ is now known as ulterior
• 1601[22:55:36] <ksk> ah yes indeed, gotcha.
• 1602[22:55:53] <ksk> since I am using "xcalc" I am quite sure it wont ;)
• 1603[22:56:33] <ksk> not sure how this works tbh.
• 1604[22:56:52] <ksk> I could imagine putting every app in its own network namespace, but sounds a little bit oof.
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• 1606[22:57:42] <ksk> In general I would advise putting "strange stuff" into a lxc container or so ( I run for example spotify from there - granted you kind of loose all security by making the container able to connect to your X and pulseaudio..)
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• 1608[23:00:11] <oxek> I don't get why X still allows every app to control every other app, it's been 40 years
• 1609[23:01:00] <ksk> as far as I know Xorg is a monstrosity.
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• 1611[23:01:28] <ksk> Might be wayland comes to the rescue, but I dont really know anything about it.
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• 1624[23:16:32] <Urk> Is there a check writing program in the Debian repository?
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• 1626[23:17:39] <InnovAnon-Inc> Lady Aleena, np. I was fixing my parent image that I want to use as the base for the dockerized firefox... now that I can check off my todo-list dockerizing firefox. slowly putting every app into it's own network namespace :P
• 1627[23:18:52] <allizom> Urk: not sure what you mean, do you need to sign checks?
• 1628[23:19:11] *** Quits: tinfoil-hat (~chrissly@replaced-ip) (Quit: tinfoil-hat)
• 1629[23:19:19] <Urk> I need to print and create checks online so that they can be uploaded to my banks web server.
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• 1631[23:20:28] <allizom> uhm, I was under the impression you had to get checks from your bank
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• 1636[23:24:31] <joepublic> You Do Not have to get checks from your bank. I print checks on my laser printer.
• 1637[23:24:55] <joepublic> Advice may vary by jurisdiction.
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• 1641[23:31:27] <ratrace> WhatCanPossiblyGoWrong(tm) also #catchmeifyoucan
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• 1644[23:34:46] <oxek> ksk: I don't think wayland will ever replace X unfortunately
• 1645[23:35:09] <cybercrypto> oxek: Why would you say that?
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• 1651[23:41:20] <mns> joepublic: what is the application you use for printing checks ?
• 1652[23:42:19] <joepublic> I print checks as bank drafts for donors to a nonprofit who have agreed to a monthly donation by paper draft.
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• 1664[23:49:46] <oxek> cybercrypto: there's little momentum behind wayland replacing X.
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• 1667[23:53:34] <jmcnaught> oxek: GNOME defaults to Wayland on buster, I'm using it right now.
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