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• 3[00:03:07] <warsoul> when i installed debian came with it
• 4[00:03:12] <warsoul> i didnt install nothing
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• 6[00:03:16] <warsoul> i did netinstall i think
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• 12[00:09:04] <slimefoot> systemctl list-unit-files --state=enabled
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• 29[00:17:30] <warsoul> slimefoot type this in terminal?
• 30[00:17:35] <warsoul> systemctl list-unit-files --state=enabled
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• 32[00:17:55] <slimefoot> yes
• 33[00:18:11] <warsoul> done
• 34[00:18:11] <slimefoot> !give warsoul paste
• 35[00:18:12] * dpkg gives warsoul paste
• 36[00:18:22] <slimefoot> !paste | warsoul
• 37[00:18:22] <dpkg> | warsoul: put your output on replaced-url
• 38[00:18:27] <slimefoot> nnnhnhngg
• 39[00:18:29] <slimefoot> !paste
• 40[00:18:29] <dpkg> Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: replaced-url
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• 43[00:18:59] <warsoul> replaced-url
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• 52[00:19:56] <slimefoot> warsoul: both NetworkManager and wpa_supplicant are active
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• 54[00:20:15] <warsoul> dont get it
• 55[00:20:20] <slimefoot> I believe that could explain why seeminly randomly sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't
• 56[00:20:32] <warsoul> what you think?
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• 58[00:21:01] <slimefoot> warsoul: wpa_supplicant is the tool that manages the wireless link (WiFi) - NetworkManager is a high-level tool that manages the entire network stack (including the WiFi link, by invoking wpa_supplicant itself)
• 59[00:21:18] <slimefoot> now if wpa_supplicant is somehow launched by the system *and* by NetworkManager, there is a conflict
• 60[00:21:30] <slimefoot> because now there are two things trying to manage the WiFi link at the same time
• 61[00:21:59] <slimefoot> HOWEVER, I don't know NetworkManager well enough to be 100% sure that's the reason (maybe enabling wpa_supplicant.service is the correct thing to do)
• 62[00:22:08] <slimefoot> someone with more NetworkManager knowledge might need to chime in on this
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• 66[00:23:01] <slimefoot> warsoul: but purely for curiosity's sake, I would disable wpa_supplicant.service, and then see if that solves your problem
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• 68[00:23:59] <slimefoot> i.e. `systemctl disable wpa_supplicant.service`
• 69[00:24:07] <slimefoot> (as root)
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• 74[00:28:19] <warsoul> ok
• 75[00:28:23] <warsoul> thanks slimefoot
• 76[00:29:00] <slimefoot> but again, no guarantee that it solves anything - for instance, I also see dbus-fi.w1.wpa_supplicant1.service, and I have no idea what that does there (but again, I don't really know NetworkManager)
• 77[00:29:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1573
• 78[00:29:14] <warsoul> to enable it back
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• 80[00:29:27] <warsoul> systemctl enable wpa_supplicant.service?
• 81[00:29:39] <slimefoot> warsoul: yes
• 82[00:30:05] <warsoul> ok
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• 86[00:32:09] <rander2> I have a old netbook , asus 1225C , with a integrated gpu card inside cpu N2600 , unfortunatly the gpu is unsupport by any linux version ( debian too )
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• 90[00:32:56] <slimefoot> warsoul: there is a chance that it might also have been enabled alongside with NetworkManager, in which case wpa_supplicant.service actually has a reason to be there
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• 95[00:34:22] <rander2> When I bought it about 4 years ago, it was brander "linux", and came with pre-installed ubuntu 12.04 LTS . It had the gma3600 support, but the drivers was in a bloob partition ( the netbook had a fat32 partition )
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• 99[00:35:59] <rander2> Now , it use gma500 video card driver, without acceleration, and the system is very slow, also with iceWV as window manager
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• 102[00:37:06] <rander2> Ok, excuse me, I wrote too much
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• 130[00:52:39] <jaggz> anyone know why my mic doesn't show up as an input device anymore? it's weird, because monitor of the mic does show up
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• 134[00:53:03] <jaggz> (the mic is also a soundcard, so that might be what the monitor is)
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• 136[00:54:00] <rue_mohr> is there an apt-command to just forget the broken status of whatever is broken and go continue with whats working?
• 137[00:54:07] <rue_mohr> cause this happens a lot
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• 139[00:54:45] <rue_mohr> its insisting on trying to install systemd-sysv, but cant, so its stuck
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• 152[01:04:47] <dka> Can my WWAN card Fibocom L850GL be used to make phone call from a computer with Debian ? So far I only managed to send and received SMS.
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• 154[01:05:40] <rander2> how to manage sms with debian ?
• 155[01:06:46] <rue_mohr> how do I force apt to not try to install a package and to uninstall whatever required it
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• 180[01:21:41] <dka> rander2 wwan card
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• 187[01:24:26] <dka> When will debian release linux kernel 5 in stable ?
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• 204[01:36:58] <dvs> dka, never
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• 208[01:37:49] <dvs> dka, you either have to wait for bullseye or take it from buster backports.
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• 222[01:45:14] <warsoul> dvs, when is bullseye coming out?
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• 224[01:46:03] <dvs> 2021?
• 225[01:46:06] <dvs> !wwbr
• 226[01:46:07] <dpkg> Debian 10 "Buster" started the <freeze> process on 2019-01-12 and should release on July 6, 2019. See replaced-url
• 227[01:46:17] <dvs> Well, that's outta date
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• 238[01:55:45] <annadane> !wwbur
• 239[01:55:45] <dpkg> Bullseye?! GO AWAY!! I've just finished releasing Buster!
• 240[01:55:56] <annadane> warsoul, basically julyish 2021
• 241[01:56:15] <dvs> wilbur~
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• 247[01:58:30] <annadane> you can shorten the time it gets here by fixing bugs during the freeze!
• 248[02:00:03] <warsoul> annadane, thanks
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• 251[02:00:41] <PoPo> There is a North India...
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• 260[02:03:12] <annadane> thanks?
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• 262[02:03:24] <annadane> directed at popo, not you war =P
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• 353[03:22:32] <crestfallen> hi I'm getting an error with this command, following a tutorial on the parrotlinux website: gpg --keyid-format long --with-fingerprint parrot-key.asc the error is:
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• 355[03:23:37] <crestfallen> WARNING No command supplied. Trying to guess what you mean ... gpg: can't open 'parrot-key.asc'
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• 357[03:24:01] <crestfallen> this is a vm
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• 361[03:24:56] <crestfallen> I'm using a parrot virtualBox 'appliance'
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• 364[03:26:25] <crestfallen> should I ask this question elsewhere? thanks
• 365[03:26:48] <crestfallen> the host machine is buster
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• 372[03:30:38] <annadane> crestfallen, yeah, ask parrot support resources
• 373[03:30:39] <annadane> !parrot
• 374[03:30:39] <dpkg> Parrot Linux is a distribution based on <testing> for security experts, developers and privacy aware people. It is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Support can be found in #parrotsec on Freenode or the community pages replaced-url
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• 381[03:36:07] <crestfallen> excellent thanks annadane
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• 386[03:38:27] <crestfallen> hi I'm getting an error with the following command, following a tutorial on the parrotlinux website: gpg --keyid-format long --with-fingerprint parrot-key.asc the error is: WARNING No command supplied. Trying to guess what you mean ... gpg: can't open 'parrot-key.asc' this is a virtualBox 'appliance' on a buster host os.
• 387[03:38:40] <crestfallen> sorry !! scratch that
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• 408[03:59:49] <crestfallen> dang parrotsec channel is not active it seems
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• 410[04:00:29] <annadane> then maybe try ##linux
• 411[04:00:30] <uncle_bobo> as in parrot os?
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• 413[04:02:15] <crestfallen> uncle_bobo, yes do I have the #channelname right?
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• 416[04:04:51] <uncle_bobo> @crestfallen, nah IDK. Just curios if that was what you are talking about. I'll try to join and see if there is soemthing up.
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• 421[04:05:45] <uncle_bobo> @crestfallen, Yeah man.... It's up.
• 422[04:05:50] <uncle_bobo> @crestfallen, Try again.
• 423[04:05:52] <anonymous_> ls
• 424[04:06:00] <anonymous_> hi is working
• 425[04:06:07] <crestfallen> ok thanks
• 426[04:06:13] <anonymous_> hey can you help me
• 427[04:06:26] <anonymous_> anyone
• 428[04:06:53] <uncle_bobo> help granted: whats up?
• 429[04:07:09] <anonymous_> i am using linux to connect to a smart switch
• 430[04:07:23] <uncle_bobo> ummm Okay
• 431[04:07:33] <anonymous_> i used wireshark to see what the connects or traffic is
• 432[04:07:41] <uncle_bobo> how? ssh, usb
• 433[04:07:44] <uncle_bobo> ahh okay
• 434[04:07:45] <anonymous_> but i am having trouble connecting to it
• 435[04:08:01] <anonymous_> i also used nmap to see open port
• 436[04:08:09] <whislock> how are you trying to connect?
• 437[04:08:14] <anonymous_> it had a open port in 6668 and the service was irc
• 438[04:08:24] <uncle_bobo> your watch connects to your phone and your phone to the wifi right
• 439[04:08:30] <uncle_bobo> is your wifi on your phone?
• 440[04:08:34] <anonymous_> yes
• 441[04:08:41] <uncle_bobo> do you see the ip address for it on your router?
• 442[04:08:48] <anonymous_> watch to router then phone
• 443[04:09:05] <uncle_bobo> what? Watch > Router > Phone
• 444[04:09:08] <anonymous_> iyes
• 445[04:09:18] <whislock> watch? i thought we were talking about a switch
• 446[04:09:28] <anonymous_> yeah it is a switch
• 447[04:09:30] <anonymous_> my bad
• 448[04:09:30] <uncle_bobo> thought your watch would be bluetooth to the phone and the NIC on the Phone to the router
• 449[04:09:43] <uncle_bobo> ahhh
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• 451[04:09:48] <uncle_bobo> okay some confusion
• 452[04:09:51] <uncle_bobo> so lets back up
• 453[04:09:56] <anonymous_> it is switch
• 454[04:09:59] <whislock> anonymous_: How is this a Debian issue?
• 455[04:10:07] <anonymous_> it is not actually
• 456[04:10:17] <uncle_bobo> its a switch, switch / router
• 457[04:10:20] <uncle_bobo> ?
• 458[04:10:37] <anonymous_> smart switch
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• 460[04:10:50] <whislock> anonymous_: This channel is for Debian support. Troubleshooting switches is kinda outside that.
• 461[04:10:55] <uncle_bobo> lets join a channel I will set it up and we can talk there.
• 462[04:11:03] <anonymous_> ok
• 463[04:11:29] <uncle_bobo> channel name is "Watchthis"
• 464[04:11:36] <tds> or you just need a better switch that runs debian
• 465[04:11:37] <tds> :D
• 466[04:12:00] <whislock> tds: I would love to find one, honestly.
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• 469[04:12:38] <tds> there are plenty, but they're not particularly cheap
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• 480[04:23:45] <swift110_> ok
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• 763[09:16:53] <ZaZaGX> hey, is ufw and iptables the samething?
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• 767[09:18:37] <RoyK> !ufw
• 768[09:18:37] <dpkg> Uncomplicated firewall (ufw) is an <iptables> front-end with syntax similar to OpenBSD's Packet Filter (PF). replaced-url
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• 770[09:19:03] <RoyK> ZaZaGX: ufw is just an iptables frontend to make things easier. I use it for most stuff
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• 773[09:19:37] <ZaZaGX> oh ok, is it installed by default debian 10?
• 774[09:19:38] <SZO> I apologise if this is a very stupid question, but can I apply the debian 5.4-rc7 patch to the latest linux 5.4 kernel
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• 776[09:20:25] <RoyK> ZaZaGX: iptables is there, but I don't think ufw is in by default - just apt install it
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• 778[09:20:39] <ZaZaGX> oh ok thanks
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• 780[09:20:44] <RoyK> SZO: then you have to recompile the kernel
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• 783[09:22:11] <RoyK> ZaZaGX: please note that ufw doesn't have abstraction for stuff like NAT/Masquerading/port forwarding - that needs to be done with iptables directly, but can be done in ufw's config files for it to be automatically applied on ufw startup
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• 785[09:22:58] <RoyK> ZaZaGX: for usual filtering, either "open port xx" or "open traffic from ip to ip from port this to port that proto something"
• 786[09:22:59] <SZO> See I tried applying the 5.4-rc7 patch to the 5.4 kernel before compile but unfortunately I got plenty of issues
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• 788[09:23:38] <RoyK> ZaZaGX: also - please note the "comment" in ufw, such as "ufw allow 22/tcp comment 'Allow ssh access from everywhere'"
• 789[09:23:43] <rudi_s> Personally I prefer iptables over frontends like ufw because it gives direct control and as all frontends have to utilize iptables anyway I have to learn it anyway.
• 790[09:23:53] <RoyK> makes things a bit easier to overview later
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• 792[09:24:12] <RoyK> rudi_s: you don't have to learn it "anyway"
• 793[09:24:16] <RoyK> that is, most people don't
• 794[09:24:21] <rudi_s> And iptables-restore supports "#" comments just fine, so don't need the "comment" hacks in iptables.
• 795[09:24:35] <RoyK> rudi_s: there's no need to learn iptables if you just want a simple set of filters
• 796[09:24:35] <rudi_s> If you want to debug the resulting ruleset you have to.
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• 798[09:25:06] * RoyK knows iptables pretty well by heart, but still sticks to ufw because of its simplicity for most tasks
• 799[09:25:36] <RoyK> btw, iptables is out, nftables is in ;)
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• 801[09:26:13] <rudi_s> Well, personally I prefer iptables and nftables still isn't up to feature comparity with iptables.
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• 803[09:26:34] <RoyK> rudi_s: excuse me?
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• 806[09:27:11] <rudi_s> And once I learned that iptables-restore supports -4 and -6 I personally saw no need to prefer nftables.
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• 809[09:27:44] <rudi_s> RoyK: Some more advanced iptables extensions are either very recent additions or still not supported in nftables.
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• 812[09:27:56] <RoyK> rudi_s: example?
• 813[09:28:02] <rudi_s> Can't give you any examples, but I stumbled over a few things in the past and was happy that I could just use iptables.
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• 816[09:28:46] <rudi_s> Also I don't like the syntax. Oh, and the missing documentation for nftables is really a pain. Especially where the nftables hooks into the netfilter stack.
• 817[09:29:02] <RoyK> rudi_s: if you can't give any examples, then it's just talk, talk, talk
• 818[09:29:21] <rudi_s> RoyK: Sure, I knew you would say that.
• 819[09:29:25] <RoyK> and "I don't like nftables syntax" is the worst bloody argument I've heard
• 820[09:29:37] <RoyK> damn - let's go back to ipchains!
• 821[09:30:10] <BotaniCar> only complaint about iptables i have is loading time when they pile up.
• 822[09:30:16] <SZO> This is where I got the patch from replaced-url
• 823[09:30:29] <SZO> I applied it to kernel.org 5.4 kernel
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• 825[09:30:40] <rudi_s> RoyK: Why? It's just a personal preference but it helps if you like working with the tools you use. - Anyway, enough rambling about nftables.
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• 827[09:31:04] <SZO> I am running 5.4 currently, but I have not applied patches to this kernel
• 828[09:31:39] <SZO> I am curious if I should still apply patches, or if I should just leave it as is until the kernel team gets to this lts
• 829[09:31:47] <RoyK> rudi_s: you're the one rambling here - I was just trying to help ZaZaGX out here
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• 831[09:32:28] <RoyK> SZO: what's new in the patch that you need?
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• 833[09:32:29] <rudi_s> I know, that's why I said I'll stop.
• 834[09:33:07] <RoyK> SZO: if it's just a fix in a driver, it's easier to just recompile that driver instead of going all in for upgrading to a full rc
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• 837[09:34:49] <SZO> I have configured the kernel to my likings and it is working, I was just wondering if it is neccesary to use the latest debian patch on a new kernel that has been released and compiled for debian
• 838[09:35:05] <rudi_s> RoyK: I just remembered one feature which did not work with nftables, TPROXY.
• 839[09:35:51] <RoyK> SZO: wait - you want to apply a 5.4-rc7 patch to 5.4?
• 840[09:35:57] <RoyK> rc == release candidate
• 841[09:36:05] <RoyK> 5.4-rc7 is older than 5.4
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• 847[09:38:52] <RoyK> rudi_s: looks like it's in there replaced-url
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• 850[09:39:59] <SZO> Forgive me for this, I saw the patch was 6 days old and since 5.4 was released yesterday I knew something was fishy
• 851[09:40:11] <SZO> I am learning this solo so I make stupid mistakes like this
• 852[09:40:20] <RoyK> :)
• 853[09:40:38] <SZO> I do not expect an exact answer
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• 855[09:40:55] <SZO> But does debian usually stay up to date with recent kernel updates and their patches
• 856[09:41:02] <rudi_s> RoyK: Yeah, now, but it took a while and it had bugs (possibly still has them).
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• 868[09:45:21] <RoyK> SZO: generally, debian sticks to the kernel it first came with, backporting fixes done in newer kernels, but not upgrading the whole thing
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• 870[09:45:26] <RoyK> !SNS
• 871[09:45:26] <dpkg> Shiny New Shit Syndrome is a serious disorder, which usually breaks out into an epidemic every time something new is released. If you have SNS, ask me about <backports> and <ssb>; these are better options than upgrading to <testing> because it is a <moving target>.
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• 873[09:46:13] <RoyK> SZO: what was it that didn't work on the old kernel?
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• 881[09:50:39] <SZO> I am just learning how to compile kernels and what not, I have 5.2.0.3 installed from the debian repo, I compiled 5.4 and was wondering how debian patches latest kernels. 5.2.0.3 runs great
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• 886[09:52:24] <SZO> But for instance when I install a kernel from the debian stable repo, is the patch already applied to it, or doI have to apply it to the source before hand
• 887[09:53:16] <towo^work> from what patch you are talking about?
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• 889[09:53:56] <SZO> What makes a debian kernel different from a pristine kernel
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• 892[09:54:43] <towo^work> SZO, the debian specific patches
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• 894[09:55:29] <SZO> Where can I find documentation on these specific patches that make the kernel debian specific
• 895[09:55:59] <towo^work> in the debian kernel source, inside the patches
• 896[09:56:00] <SZO> Some questions are hard to google and find the right results, thankyou
• 897[09:56:10] <SZO> So when I make nconfig
• 898[09:56:13] <SZO> make clean
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• 900[09:56:28] <SZO> make deb-pkg are those patches applied?
• 901[09:56:33] <towo^work> no
• 902[09:56:38] <towo^work> why should they?
• 903[09:56:57] <SZO> This is the thing, I am confused on how to diagnose or even find out if I require a patch
• 904[09:57:00] <towo^work> and this is #debian, not #howtobuildkernelfordebian
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• 906[09:57:50] <SZO> I was unaware the IRC channels were that fragmented, where should I have found that info?
• 907[09:57:59] <SZO> Legit question
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• 909[10:03:07] <jelly> towo^work: what's the better channel to ask how to build kernel for Debian?
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• 914[10:04:39] <jelly> SZO: the best docs about those patches is probably already within the kernel team salsa you browsed already
• 915[10:05:48] <jelly> SZO: eg. replaced-url
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• 929[10:14:14] <SZO> So for debian, or any kernel really. THe only time I should worry about patches is when I specifically have an issue with a certain funtion. But when I install the debian kernel from the repo, what makes it a debian kernel is what I want to know
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• 933[10:15:43] <SZO> The debian wiki has a lot of instructions on installing the kernel from repo or source, but what is the debian kernel doing differently from the pristine kernel that all debian users are granted from installation
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• 937[10:17:20] <jelly> SZO: that's literally in the set of patches.
• 938[10:17:48] <RoyK> scivola: all distros have their own patches of sorts. usually just standard stuff, perhaps not yet included in Linus' tree, but you'll have to check the patches for that
• 939[10:17:59] <RoyK> SZO: that was for you, sorry scivola
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• 943[10:19:13] <RoyK> SZO: also, as time goes on, new versions of the kernel shows up. in stable, usually just a new build with new patches to the kernel itself and its modules. from backports, however, you can find newer kernels if you really need them. usually you don't
• 944[10:19:29] <jelly> there are some driver fixes, there are some functional fixes, there are some patches changing default settings, there are some disabling potential harmful or buggy stuff by default...
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• 950[10:21:23] <RoyK> SZO: replaced-url
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• 952[10:21:57] <SZO> Thank you for helping me figure this out, I wanted to learn how to compile the kernel and patching was confusing me. I'll take a gander at what you provided me. Thankyou
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• 1077[11:54:29] <duckyduck> Hello all, since I've upgraded from Debian9 to 10 buster functionality to receive and send mouse and keyboard input has stopped working, I tried using both Java (replaced-url
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• 1080[11:57:08] <crivrc> duckyduck: can you be more specific please? doing what exactly?
• 1081[11:57:40] <duckyduck> For example receiving the current cursor position will return invalid results
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• 1086[12:00:51] <crivrc> duckyduck: I am running Debian buster, I just tried pynput Controller and it seems to work. I am using xfce.
• 1087[12:01:08] <crivrc> I put the mouse in the upper top level and get mouse.position = 0, 0
• 1088[12:01:30] <crivrc> I put it in the other end and I get 1909, 1032 which is expected given my resolution
• 1089[12:01:59] <crivrc> I installed pynput with pip3
• 1090[12:02:02] <duckyduck> Alright, I've no clue how I can troubleshoot this right now
• 1091[12:02:31] <crivrc> perhaps it is version of pynput?
• 1092[12:02:43] <crivrc> or desktop environment?
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• 1094[12:05:05] <duckyduck> Well just installed the latest version of pynput so not that, I am running gnome..
• 1095[12:05:13] <humbot> fresh installs of buster bring gnome3 with wayland, not sure what would happen if you just upgraded from 9
• 1096[12:05:28] <jm_> gnome uses wayland by default in buster
• 1097[12:05:40] <duckyduck> yes Ive got wayland
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• 1100[12:07:15] <jm_> well do those frameworks work with it?
• 1101[12:07:31] <duckyduck> perhaps not..
• 1102[12:07:39] <jm_> my bet is on no :)
• 1103[12:07:45] <humbot> this indicates it could or should work replaced-url
• 1104[12:07:48] <crivrc> I use X, maybe Wayland is the problem?
• 1105[12:07:56] <jm_> from pyinput docs: On Linux, pynput uses X
• 1106[12:08:12] <duckyduck> Ok I see, so can I switch to X?
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• 1109[12:08:43] <crivrc> try installing xserver-xorg package
• 1110[12:08:50] <jm_> there's an option for that
• 1111[12:08:51] <humbot> as for java 7, 8 was in debian 9 and 11 is in 10
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• 1113[12:09:10] <brondif> maybe login manager has this option.
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• 1116[12:09:41] <brondif> option of xorg
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• 1121[12:11:02] <EmleyMoor> Wayland has caused me a few problems on some machines, but fortunately you can switch to xorg if needed. Unfortunately I can't remember what setting I changed on the machine I did it on, and that machine is currently out of order
• 1122[12:11:03] <jm_> yeah try the settings (gear) icon on login screen
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• 1126[12:12:55] <duckyduck> eh right, so xserver-xorg was already installed, switching to X required me to log out?
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• 1129[12:13:33] <jm_> yes
• 1130[12:13:38] <duckyduck> :P copy brb
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• 1134[12:15:04] <duckyduck> Guys thank you all so much for the help!
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• 1136[12:15:42] <jm_> enjoy
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• 1147[12:29:46] <Generic> Anybody knows where rvnamed gets dns info?
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• 1150[12:32:03] <Habbie> Generic, i'd expect it to ask the nameservers listed in resolv.conf
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• 1152[12:32:31] <Generic> So did I
• 1153[12:32:38] <Habbie> but?
• 1154[12:32:39] <Generic> Habbie
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• 1156[12:33:11] <Generic> Doesn't work if you unblock just these
• 1157[12:33:44] <Habbie> then you'll have to see what it does, with tcpdump or strace
• 1158[12:34:16] <Generic> Maybe /dev/rvndcldcomsk ? But how
• 1159[12:34:26] <Habbie> what?
• 1160[12:34:53] <Generic> It opens a socket according to source
• 1161[12:35:39] <Habbie> sure - iptraf talks to rvnamed via a socket
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• 1163[12:36:27] <Generic> But these would be included in 127.0.0.1 right?
• 1164[12:36:32] <Habbie> what?
• 1165[12:37:36] <Generic> If I used -A input -s 127.0.0.1 -j accept sockets would work ?
• 1166[12:37:57] <Habbie> the socket between rvnamed and iptraf does not care about iptables
• 1167[12:38:00] <Habbie> it's a UNIX socket
• 1168[12:39:06] <Habbie> i checked the source meanwhile, and rvnamed uses gethostbyaddr, which means it would indeed respect /etc/resolv.conf
• 1169[12:39:19] <Generic> So that's what PF_Unix stands for
• 1170[12:39:27] <Habbie> yes
• 1171[12:40:39] <Generic> Ok gotta try again
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• 1173[12:44:00] <dka> Can the Fibocom L850GL WWAN card be used for GSM called from Debian ?
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• 1188[12:56:05] <Ether_Man> Is GSM even still live anywhere in the world?
• 1189[12:56:34] <SwedeMike> Ether_Man: yes.
• 1190[12:56:38] <Habbie> yes
• 1191[12:56:41] <SwedeMike> lots of places.
• 1192[12:56:45] <Habbie> GSM will be here long after we turn off 3G
• 1193[12:56:51] <Habbie> also, the devide dka asks about does LTE
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• 1197[12:57:23] <Habbie> it does not, in fact, do GSM :)
• 1198[12:57:37] <dka> I have a WWAN card in my new X1 Carbon lenovo gen 7, I just want to know if I can use my laptop like a phone and make call
• 1199[12:57:42] <Habbie> dka, the manual as filed with the fcc says it does not do GSM; but i trust you mean 'mobile hone calls' over UMTS or LTE
• 1200[12:57:42] <dka> I am on debian. i can send and receive SMS
• 1201[12:57:47] <Habbie> ok cool
• 1202[12:57:53] <Habbie> i don't have an answer to your actual question then
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• 1205[12:58:06] <Habbie> 'with the right software it should be possible'
• 1206[12:58:10] <Habbie> but i don't know if the right software exists
• 1207[12:58:29] <dka> perhaps an android emulator?
• 1208[12:58:38] <Habbie> i find it hard to judge if that will help
• 1209[12:59:02] <dka> I'll ask God
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• 1214[13:00:29] <at0m> apt search GSM throws out a lot of packages, like osmo. even base station management etc
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• 1218[13:01:25] <at0m> then there's asterisk..
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• 1220[13:01:44] <at0m> i assume they got their own channels with people in the know about that
• 1221[13:01:57] <Habbie> that's not a bad idea
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• 1223[13:02:42] <at0m> you can always install android then debian on that for a proper OS /s
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• 1225[13:03:05] <Ether_Man> For that device, it supposedly works if you can connect it to the USB data bus rather than the PCIe bus. Though no idea how that would b done :)
• 1226[13:03:12] <Ether_Man> dka: ^
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• 1235[13:10:17] <Abdullah> How do I know when I installed this system?
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• 1238[13:10:40] <Ether_Man> Habbie: long after we turn off 3g? hm? We've already started shutting off 3g here in Sweden. Everyone does 4g and 5g is under deployment. GSM is deader than a dodo and has been for a long time. (GSM-R is still live though funnily enough)
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• 1240[13:11:02] <Habbie> Ether_Man, i see the same in .nl except 2G is not going away for machine usage
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• 1243[13:11:26] <Ether_Man> Habbie: that machine usage is generally GSM-R though.
• 1244[13:11:51] <Habbie> ah, i don't know
• 1245[13:11:51] <at0m> my 3210 has just gotten a new battery.
• 1246[13:12:26] <avu> Abdullah: look at your root partition with tune2fs -l and search for 'Filesystem created'
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• 1251[13:14:33] <Ether_Man> GSM-R is a railway specific modification of GSM which separates it into a separate network. Low capacity, but high range and much more reliable.
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• 1254[13:15:58] <Ether_Man> But surprising if GSM is still in use. It uses 900 and 1800 in Europe and those frequencies are also assigned to other stuff today after all
• 1255[13:16:54] <user__> /msg NickServ REGISTER
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• 1257[13:17:45] <Abdullah> avu: Thanks. Filesystem created: Tue Sep 17 21:19:46 2019
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• 1272[13:30:20] <kardborren> I'm using bluetooth to connect to Bose QC35II. Now and then (absolutely not always) I'm getting stuttering glitches in the sound. Is there a way to figure out what the problem is? Headset? Systemd? OS? BT hardware in computer? Etc. (I'm on latest Debian, fully updated. Had problem since I got the headphones over a year ago, held out to latest Debian in hope it would solve problem - it did not.)
• 1273[13:32:39] <ratrace> BT audio is terrible in Linux
• 1274[13:33:04] <kardborren> ratrace: Really? I thought it was considered a solved problem.
• 1275[13:33:27] <ratrace> not in my experience anyway.
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• 1277[13:33:58] <Haohmaru> isn't it unavoidable?
• 1278[13:34:08] <jaggz> when building a package with debuild, might I ask what might be trying to access my ircd files?
• 1279[13:34:14] <kardborren> Haohmaru: "it" = ?
• 1280[13:34:14] <Haohmaru> i mean, it's not synchronized audio
• 1281[13:34:54] <kardborren> Haohmaru: Well, I'm not getting any stuttering glitches when listening to music on my phone with same headset.
• 1282[13:34:59] <ratrace> jaggz: what does one have to do with the other
• 1283[13:35:13] <Haohmaru> kardborren so what?
• 1284[13:35:25] <jaggz> dpkg-deb: building package 'pulseeffects-dbgsym' in '../pulseeffects-dbgsym_4.6.6-1_amd64.deb'. dpkg-genbuildinfo Can't opendir(/usr/path/somewhere/ircd/bin): Permission denied at /usr/share/perl5/Dpkg/Vendor/Debian.pm line 469.
• 1285[13:35:38] <kardborren> Haohmaru: Sorry, I'm not following you.
• 1286[13:36:16] <kardborren> ratrace: Did you have anything to help how to diagnose what part of the chain causing the glitches?
• 1287[13:36:16] <Haohmaru> realtime audio is tricky afaik
• 1288[13:36:21] <jaggz> ratrace, I'm really not sure. Maybe debuild needed to be run with root privs, and was trying to do some other package maint, that my user didn't have access to?
• 1289[13:36:41] <jelly> jaggz: /usr/path/somewhere/ircd/bin sounds weird, what's your current directory?
• 1290[13:36:51] <ratrace> kardborren: no I gave up with BT audio altogether. over the years I had many issues, could never resolve them and heard others had many similar issues.
• 1291[13:36:53] <jaggz> or maybe this third-party software is trying to do something questionable
• 1292[13:37:24] <jaggz> jelly, I'm in my home dir ~/public/audio/pulseeffects/ replaced-url
• 1293[13:37:25] <kardborren> Haohmaru: I bet it is. But you insinuated that it couldn't be avoided. So I added the datapoint that the same headset works fine with my mobile phone. So, in fact, it does seem avoidable under some circumstances.
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• 1295[13:37:39] <jelly> jaggz: perhaps it's just in your PATH and debhelper tools are looking for something in each dir in PATH
• 1296[13:37:39] <jaggz> jelly, I run my own irc server for my wife and I at home
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• 1298[13:38:11] <jaggz> it's not *actually* /usr/path/somewhere/ircd/bin but that's an "anonymization" of it
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• 1300[13:38:24] <ratrace> jaggz: but is it in your PATH as jelly suggested
• 1301[13:38:27] <jm_> looks like it's using dh, nothing unusual in rules file
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• 1303[13:38:49] <jaggz> no it's not in my path
• 1304[13:39:45] <Haohmaru> kardborren well, if you're playing music from a computer thru an invisible connection to a speaker, then the computer has to time the audio buffer transmition as best as it can, or get signals from the speaker in advance.. i don't know what stuttering you get, but if the audio buffer repeats or skips, that is likely due to synchronization problems IMO
• 1305[13:39:51] <jaggz> looks like that perl script does a find of /usr/local/
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• 1308[13:40:35] <Haohmaru> in a more normal scenario (with proper connection, the OS/driver gets signals when to feed another audio buffer in advance, and stuff plays smoothly
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• 1310[13:40:50] <jaggz> you know, maybe that's not actually what's causing the final failure of this build..
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• 1314[13:41:54] <Haohmaru> with wireless, someone might be stealing ur "packets" from the air, or stirring them up a bit to corrupt them ;P~
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• 1317[13:42:12] <jaggz> not sure if it's related to the find failing.. the series of catastrophies that kills it seems to be at the next line: Now running lintian pulseeffects_4.6.6-1_amd64.changes ... internal error: could not find the source tarball at /usr/share/perl5/Lintian/Util.pm line 644.
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• 1319[13:42:57] <jaggz> forget all this pasting.. (redirecting a debuild to a file so he can somewhat-less inconvenience irc)
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• 1321[13:43:47] <jaggz> okay.. redirecting to a file in .. because debuild does not like a file added in the working dir :) :)
• 1322[13:43:56] <jaggz> computers are fun.
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• 1329[13:46:53] <kardborren> Haohmaru: I see. Is there a (reasonable) way of figuring out what the actual problem is?
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• 1333[13:47:38] <Haohmaru> i'm not the right guy to ask.. i don't like wireless anything when using cables is practical
• 1334[13:47:51] <kardborren> Haohmaru: I mean, it's not like any process pops up a notification "Your audio might be stuttering because the disk is too slow"
• 1335[13:48:17] <Haohmaru> no, synchronization of the audio clocks and buffer transfer is what i meant
• 1336[13:48:24] <ratrace> technically though, sending audio buffer from one device to another is agnostic to the medium. cable or radio waves, both needs same kind of sync
• 1337[13:48:32] <Haohmaru> not stuttering due to "computer is working too hard and can't keep up"
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• 1339[13:48:49] <kardborren> Haohmaru: Understood. Yeah, I was just making an example with the notification.
• 1340[13:49:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1582
• 1341[13:49:07] <Haohmaru> like, is there feedback from the speaker to the computer?
• 1342[13:49:18] <Haohmaru> if there isn't - that's gonna be a big problem with sync
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• 1344[13:50:05] <Haohmaru> but i guess BlewToot is bidirectional communication, probably half-duplex tho
• 1345[13:50:47] <jelly> jaggz: you could run the whole thing inside "script build-pulsethingy.log" if you have a hard time capturing thw whole output
• 1346[13:51:11] <jaggz> replaced-url
• 1347[13:51:28] <jaggz> nah it works fine.. just debuild 2>&1 | tee ../foo
• 1348[13:51:30] <Haohmaru> kardborren one simple (i think) thing you could try is run the debian with a realtime kernel to see if it makes some diff, i've read some things might work differently there, specifically for audio
• 1349[13:51:45] <jaggz> I cut out most of it.. errors start after ... snip ...
• 1350[13:51:50] <kardborren> Haohmaru: Huh, interesting. Thanks, I'll look into it
• 1351[13:51:50] <Haohmaru> another thing is to try debian10 on a different machine with that same device
• 1352[13:52:09] <kardborren> Yeah, that's also good.
• 1353[13:52:21] <jaggz> line 75. but I'm not sure if those are affecting the actual build or not. It continues and runs lintian (line 85) but that errors
• 1354[13:52:41] <Haohmaru> i use cables and have no such problems btw ;P~
• 1355[13:52:51] <Haohmaru> good old cablez
• 1356[13:53:13] <jaggz> Now running lintian pulseeffects_4.6.6-1_amd64.changes ... internal error: could not find the source tarball
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• 1359[13:53:35] <jaggz> I guess I could temporarily give my user access to that dir.. but it doesn't seem right
• 1360[13:54:05] <Haohmaru> might also be your neighbour trying to use blewtoot stuff with stronger transmission than yours ;P~
• 1361[13:54:07] <Haohmaru> who knows
• 1362[13:54:38] <kardborren> Haohmaru: I did too, but for various reasons I got this headset. It's absolutely great for me, but the glitches are awful. Thank god they aren't always there.
• 1363[13:55:00] <kardborren> Haohmaru: DAMN THAT NEIGHBOUR!
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• 1367[13:55:16] <Haohmaru> your phone might be closer in sync with the device, and/or might have stronger transmission signal, i don't know
• 1368[13:55:41] <Haohmaru> luckily i don't have to deal with that kind of invisible connection problems for my own stuff
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• 1391[14:13:34] <gunix_> Holy shit! I'm unable to set preseed file for install specific .deb file in /pool/extras. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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• 1394[14:14:34] <gunix_> I tried:
• 1395[14:14:46] <gunix_> 1-) d-i preseed/late_command string dpkg -i /cdrom/pool/extras/palemoon_28.7.2+repack-1_amd64.deb
• 1396[14:14:56] <gunix_> 2-) d-i preseed/late_command string dpkg -i /pool/extras/palemoon_28.7.2+repack-1_amd64.deb
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• 1401[14:15:29] <gunix_> 3-) d-i preseed/late_command string in-target dpkg -i /cdrom/pool/extras/palemoon_28.7.2+repack-1_amd64.deb
• 1402[14:15:41] <skyline> Hello, World!
• 1403[14:16:05] <dvs> AI!
• 1404[14:16:06] <gunix_> 4-) d-i preseed/late_command string in-target dpkg -i /pool/extras/palemoon_28.7.2+repack-1_amd64.deb
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• 1408[14:17:58] <gunix_> (debian 9)
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• 1410[14:19:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1590
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• 1431[14:39:02] <jaggz> have any of you ever had any luck getting your aliases to handle tab-completion? I've tried and tried (and given up each time after a lot of effort) to get the bash functions on the web to work.. I'm only asking here because my main use is usually something like alias acp='apt-cache policy'
• 1432[14:39:29] <jaggz> then acp foo<tab> should complete to the foowhatever package just as it would with the apt-cache policy line
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• 1439[14:46:30] <jelly> that would be nice
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• 1445[14:48:11] <annadane> i can only anecdotally say i've had aliases work with tab completion before
• 1446[14:48:41] <annadane> jaggz, uh, ask #bash?
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• 1449[14:49:32] <jaggz> none of the web stuff I've found works.. annadane, yeah I guess I should...
• 1450[14:49:32] <greycat> better still, ask #bash-completion on OFTC
• 1451[14:49:37] <jaggz> I was following pages like: replaced-url
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• 1453[14:51:38] <jelly> oh, you're using bash?
• 1454[14:51:54] * jelly hides
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• 1456[14:52:04] <jaggz> I use cat > /dev/sda
• 1457[14:52:08] <greycat> They did say "bash" in the initial question at xx:39.
• 1458[14:52:35] <jaggz> (note to newbies: DO NOT TYPE THE ABOVE COMMAND)
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• 1460[14:52:59] <annadane> ooh shiny *type type type enter*
• 1461[14:55:17] <xormor> hexedit /dev/sda
• 1462[14:55:25] <xormor> less -f /dev/sda
• 1463[14:55:35] <xormor> cat /proc/cpuinfo
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• 1465[14:56:04] <xormor> man less
• 1466[14:56:06] <xormor> man cat
• 1467[14:56:12] <xormor> man hexedit
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• 1470[14:56:45] <greycat> If I open a new bash shell, and type "source /etc/bash_completion" inside that, and then run "apt-cache show bas<TAB><TAB>" to populate the completion for apt-cache, and then run "complete -p apt-cache", it gives me
• 1471[14:56:49] <greycat> complete -F _apt_cache apt-cache
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• 1476[14:57:15] <greycat> And then I can do "type _apt_cache" to see that function, but that's not immediately relevant....
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• 1478[14:57:43] <mdx01016> Can't Setup wicd above raspbian Buster... Lite...
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• 1482[14:58:24] <mdx01016> I'm Not good with wicd...
• 1483[14:58:34] <greycat> And then ... uh ... well, I thought "complete -F _apt_cache acs" would work, but it doesn't. So, I have no idea what you're supposed to do. Try the #bash-completion channel.
• 1484[14:58:50] <annadane> !tell mdx01016 about raspbian
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• 1486[14:58:57] * greycat exits from this bash shell to cleanse the completion crap from memory
• 1487[14:59:25] <mdx01016> I Mist Go sleep..
• 1488[14:59:31] <mdx01016> Must
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• 1491[15:01:57] <jelly> !raspbian
• 1492[15:01:57] <dpkg> Raspbian is a distribution <based on Debian> made specifically for the <Raspberry Pi>. Raspbian is not Debian and it is not supported in #debian. Please use #raspbian (or #raspberrypi) on irc.freenode.net for support. replaced-url
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• 1495[15:03:20] <jaggz> I love completion always being around
• 1496[15:03:27] <jaggz> (not that my shell scripts need it)
• 1497[15:03:32] <annadane> there's a related question sometimes which is "here's my question and i'm running debian on a raspberry pi" which is of course a legitimate #debian question
• 1498[15:03:34] * jaggz inserts some tabs in his shell scripts
• 1499[15:03:38] <annadane> because that's just ARM
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• 1501[15:04:06] <annadane> raspbian, though, gets the !raspbian factoid shoved in your face
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• 1504[15:06:33] <jaggz> I wish my wife and I could post images in irc.
• 1505[15:08:36] <xormor> processor : 0
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• 1509[15:10:14] <dka> Ether_Man, I did connect it to USB data bus
• 1510[15:10:25] <dka> but that's not the issue, I'd like to receive or make call
• 1511[15:11:44] <jaggz> also a whiteboard
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• 1519[15:23:50] <gunix_> I'm unable to set preseed file for install specific .deb file in /pool/extras. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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• 1521[15:24:00] <gunix_> I tried:
• 1522[15:24:11] <gunix_> 1-) d-i preseed/late_command string dpkg -i /cdrom/pool/extras/palemoon_28.7.2+repack-1_amd64.deb
• 1523[15:24:21] <gunix_> 2-) d-i preseed/late_command string dpkg -i /pool/extras/palemoon_28.7.2+repack-1_amd64.deb
• 1524[15:24:31] <gunix_> 3-) d-i preseed/late_command string in-target dpkg -i /cdrom/pool/extras/palemoon_28.7.2+repack-1_amd64.deb
• 1525[15:24:39] <gunix_> 4-) d-i preseed/late_command string in-target dpkg -i /pool/extras/palemoon_28.7.2+repack-1_amd64.deb
• 1526[15:25:01] <colo-work> maybe you're missing an appropriate "--root=<dir>"?
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• 1529[15:26:14] <gunix_> yep, probably I missed something but all samples which I checked is the same as a wrote. :|
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• 1541[15:29:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1598
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• 1577[15:47:12] <annadane> is there a quick way to check whether you have *a* MTA installed in general?
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• 1579[15:47:45] <greycat> ls -l /usr/sbin/sendmail
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• 1650[16:21:23] <rmrfchik> hi. running debian on i7 6700/hd 530. Got "libEGL warning: DRI2: failed to authenticate" in mpv
• 1651[16:21:50] <rmrfchik> vainfo also fails
• 1652[16:22:04] <rmrfchik> libva info: va_getDriverName() returns -1
• 1653[16:22:20] <jelly> rmrfchik: running wayland or X ?
• 1654[16:22:31] <rmrfchik> x11
• 1655[16:22:32] <jelly> rmrfchik: which debian release?
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• 1657[16:22:41] <rmrfchik> unstable
• 1658[16:22:43] <rmrfchik> % glxinfo|grep direct
• 1659[16:22:43] <rmrfchik> direct rendering: Yes
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• 1661[16:22:47] <jelly> !debian-next
• 1662[16:22:47] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
• 1663[16:23:05] <annadane> rmrfchik, you need to specify that. not everyone uses unstable as the default debian branch
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• 1780[17:30:28] <jelly> !qotd0
• 1781[17:30:28] <dpkg> <abrotman> Stop being intentionally obtuse
• 1782[17:30:45] <swift110> lol
• 1783[17:30:56] <swift110> some people are just like that
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• 1828[17:53:27] <NetTerminalGene> should i use debian's default firefox esr?
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• 1833[17:55:26] <Haohmaru> uhm, why would you not?
• 1834[17:55:32] <jelly> NetTerminalGene: if it works for you, yes
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• 1844[17:58:14] <NetTerminalGene> it works but firefox binary from mozilla is optimized
• 1845[17:58:18] <NetTerminalGene> faster
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• 1855[18:00:31] <annadane> faster means less now that it's quantum
• 1856[18:00:38] <annadane> decide based on your own use case
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• 1870[18:04:48] <Haohmaru> when ur downloading or watching a video - tilt the computer towards you so the packets slide in faster
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• 1877[18:07:47] <Zathras> paste.debian.net does not accept my paste (part of a logfile): do not spam
• 1878[18:07:50] <Zathras> ???
• 1879[18:08:19] <Zathras> I have not pasted something for many days
• 1880[18:08:33] <Haohmaru> is it maybe too long/big?
• 1881[18:09:06] <Zathras> 7 lines of log
• 1882[18:09:14] *** Joins: pie3 (~pieee@replaced-ip)
• 1883[18:09:26] <Haohmaru> does it contain any suspicious words which may seem like spam?
• 1884[18:09:29] <greycat> maybe someone in your IP address range has spammed in the past
• 1885[18:09:36] <greycat> try a different site
• 1886[18:10:10] <diogenes_> clear cache.
• 1887[18:10:36] <diogenes_> and cookies.
• 1888[18:11:17] <annadane> NetTerminalGene, you don't have to choose, you can use esr and firefox mainline with separate profiles
• 1889[18:11:42] <annadane> but since 57 speed is a less important factor
• 1890[18:11:51] <annadane> 52 -> 60 yeah, that was ugly
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• 1893[18:12:28] <Zathras> works fine. pasting elsewhere: replaced-url
• 1894[18:12:33] <NetTerminalGene> annadane, i can feel mainstream firefox is faster than esr
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• 1896[18:12:54] <Zathras> my mail ends up @ opendmarc how can I debug please (make things more verbose)?
• 1897[18:12:55] <rainfyre> interesting
• 1898[18:13:33] <annadane> yeah well, up to you to decide
• 1899[18:13:49] <greycat> So, wait, your initial problem is "my outgoing mail is always marked as spam", and when you tried to pastebin something, paste.debian.net thought you were a spammer too? Sounds like someone did some SERIOUSLY bad shit using your IP address.
• 1900[18:14:15] <whislock> Ouch.
• 1901[18:14:32] <Zathras> nope. 2 different IP addresses.
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• 1904[18:15:11] <annadane> using debian's firefox at least it won't suddenly change from underneath you
• 1905[18:15:17] <annadane> which i've come to value
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• 1907[18:15:32] <annadane> but you can still use newer if an extension you really need isn't available
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• 1909[18:17:05] <diogenes_> what happened to icewessel (or whatever name it had).
• 1910[18:17:21] <greycat> OK, not "marked as spam". Your log says relay=dmarc-rua-parser from what I can only guess is your outgoing MTA.
• 1911[18:17:24] <whislock> It regained its original identity.
• 1912[18:17:36] <mutante> diogenes_: it did not need to exist anymore because we can call it Firefox again
• 1913[18:17:44] <mutante> after 10 years or something
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• 1915[18:17:54] <diogenes_> lol
• 1916[18:17:55] <greycat> sadly I don't know postfix well enough to help with this... google gave me a page for "how to set up postfix to use dmarc on gentoo"
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• 1922[18:19:07] <annadane> (side rant i'm getting really sick of old/new firefox, should i switch/not switch, half my extensions are broken in old firefox/half my extensions are broken in new firefox...)
• 1923[18:19:26] <Zathras> greycat, afaik the rua setting points to a file in which postfix needs an email-address to report to. I have that
• 1924[18:20:07] <oiaohm> annadane: it does get tricky sometimes when you look closer the extentions not broken in old firefox can be unmaintained as well.
• 1925[18:20:27] <greycat> If nobody here knows, try the Postfix channel.
• 1926[18:20:27] <mutante> annadane: how about trying Brave browser
• 1927[18:20:32] <annadane> for now i'm on esr... for *now*...
• 1928[18:20:37] <annadane> and no, screw brave, stop suggesting it
• 1929[18:20:40] <Zathras> thanks
• 1930[18:20:46] <annadane> brave is less amazing than people think it is
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• 1932[18:21:05] <mutante> so are the other browsers
• 1933[18:21:21] <annadane> my impression is the people recommending brave are largely sheep, but that's just me
• 1934[18:21:28] <mutante> something about perfect is the enemy of good
• 1935[18:21:56] <NetTerminalGene> i tried brave. it was good
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• 1937[18:22:20] <mutante> annadane: nice ad hominem. bye then
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• 1939[18:22:29] *** Quits: His_Dudeness__ (~His_Duden@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 1940[18:22:39] <whislock> mutante: Brave is a profit engine masquerading as a freedom-forward browser. Please.
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• 1945[18:23:33] <mfranzwa> Brave is based on Chromium and uses a Chromium shell
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• 1947[18:23:53] <rainfyre> I don't understand why not just use chromium then
• 1948[18:23:56] <whislock> I know full well what Brave is. Their whole "ad payment token" thing doesn't belong in a browser.
• 1949[18:23:59] <greycat> am I the only person here (besides dpkg) who hasn't heard of this "brave" thing?
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• 1951[18:24:07] <rainfyre> lol
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• 1953[18:24:17] <mutante> whislock: at least you had actual content. you know that feature is something that users can turn on and off.
• 1954[18:24:32] <whislock> mutante: It shouldn't BE there. Period.
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• 1957[18:26:20] <whislock> mutante: And to be clear, I fully agree with annadane's sentiment. People pushing Brave haven't looked close enough at the browser.
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• 1960[18:26:45] <Deji> I always get this bug when trying to boot a linux distro, but Debian *installed* fine, any ideas what I should do?: kernel BUG at /build/linux-jm0a1y/linux-4.15.0/mm/slub.c:296!
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• 1965[18:27:14] <greycat> 4.15.0 isn't a Debian kernel, at least not on amd64 or i386
• 1966[18:27:30] <JZA> hi I am trying to update to 10 but get the following error almost at the end after doing an apt dist-upgrade
• 1967[18:27:40] <Deji> I installed Debian Live with non free drivers or something
• 1968[18:27:49] <JZA> mainly have issues with python3-minimal anyone have seen this issue?
• 1969[18:27:55] *** Quits: frikinz (~me@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
• 1970[18:27:58] <JZA> is a dependency problem
• 1971[18:28:24] <JZA> this is a vps system btw, so is a soft upgrade
• 1972[18:28:27] *** Quits: zyun (~zyun@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
• 1973[18:28:29] <Deji> In any case I get a similar message with all the linux distros I've tried
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• 1980[18:31:33] <JZA> anyone?
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• 1982[18:31:58] <greycat> JZA: I can't speak for anyone else, but I expected "get the following error" to be followed by the actual error
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• 1986[18:33:35] <JZA> well is a python error not fouding a module
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• 1991[18:34:59] <JZA> post-installation script on python3 with the import imp module
• 1992[18:35:46] <JZA> ubprocess dpkg returned error code 1
• 1993[18:37:11] <JZA> *Subprocess
• 1994[18:37:40] <greycat> That's not a useful part of the message. That's just a generic sentence that appears AFTER the error, saying "so yeah, there was an error up above".
• 1995[18:37:50] <JZA> Iknow
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• 1997[18:38:30] <JZA> thats why I dont put it on the report, in essence python3-minimal cant install is either a known bug or not.
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• 1999[18:39:04] <JZA> Idont even think python3-minimal when I have full blown python already on the box
• 2000[18:39:06] <greycat> Do you think you're reporting the error? We're not seeing it here.
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• 2002[18:39:18] <JZA> the error is I cant install debian 10
• 2003[18:39:24] <greycat> ...
• 2004[18:39:27] <JZA> through the upgrade process
• 2005[18:39:42] <greycat> I don't know how to get through to this person.
• 2006[18:39:51] <greycat> !exact
• 2007[18:39:51] <dpkg> Please tell us exactly what you typed, and exactly what the error was. Please use a <pastebin> like replaced-url
• 2008[18:39:59] <JZA> Idid...
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• 2011[18:40:09] <JZA> I said apt dist-upgrade
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• 2014[18:41:04] <JZA> what else you mean by exact?
• 2015[18:41:09] <mutante> JZA: the error message
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• 2017[18:41:16] <greycat> The output of apt dist-upgrade.
• 2018[18:41:34] <jelly> JZA: can you pastebin or screenshot as much of the output as possible?
• 2019[18:41:39] <JZA> no
• 2020[18:41:49] <jelly> ideally,
• 2021[18:41:51] <jelly> !bat
• 2022[18:41:51] <dpkg> In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use replaced-url
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• 2024[18:43:05] <jelly> JZA: just saying, it's hard to even guess about a specific cause without actual output
• 2025[18:43:47] <JZA> replaced-url
• 2026[18:43:51] <JZA> here is a screenshot
• 2027[18:44:21] <jelly> ,v apt
• 2028[18:44:22] <judd> Package: apt on amd64 -- jessie: 1.0.9.8.4; jessie-security: 1.0.9.8.5; stretch: 1.4.9; stretch-security: 1.4.9; buster: 1.8.2; bullseye: 1.8.4; sid: 1.8.4; experimental: 1.9.4
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• 2032[18:45:09] <Deji> Could someone take a look at my boot issues if I upload a screen photo? It annoys me that Mint booted but wouldn't install and now Debian installed but wouldn't boot
• 2033[18:45:10] <jelly> JZA: ah. It seems you tried to do a release upgrade from Debian 8 to Debian 10. That's not supported, no skipping releases is allowed. You'd have to go from 8 to 9, then from 9 to 10
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• 2035[18:45:52] <jelly> JZA: if you have a snapshot or backup, go back to when you had Debian 8 before this try
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• 2037[18:46:24] <JZA> ok
• 2038[18:46:35] <jelly> dpkg, jessie->stretch
• 2039[18:46:35] <dpkg> Read (at least) the upgrading chapter of the <release notes> replaced-url
• 2040[18:47:10] <jelly> JZA: read and do that, ^^ and after you're finished, you can go forward to
• 2041[18:47:14] <jelly> dpkg, stretch->buster
• 2042[18:47:14] <dpkg> Read (at least) the upgrading chapter of the <release notes> replaced-url
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• 2050[18:50:35] <jelly> Deji: 4.15 sounds like a weird kernel for a Debian release. > kernel BUG at /build/linux-jm0a1y/linux-4.15.0/mm/slub.c:296!
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• 2052[18:51:05] <jelly> Deji: which debian release is this supposed to be?
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• 2057[18:51:51] <greycat> google's not giving me any love on linux-jm0a1y :(
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• 2062[18:52:31] <Deji> All the distros give me pretty much the same error... IIRC this is Debian Live 10 "Mate", but from an ISO including non-free drivers for extra hardware support
• 2063[18:52:37] <jelly> google's sending me mixed messages
• 2064[18:52:40] <jelly> 1 result (0,43 seconds)
• 2065[18:52:40] <jelly> No results found for "/build/linux-jm0a1y/linux-4.15.0".
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• 2070[18:53:29] <jelly> Deji: it does not look like you're booting an actual Debian kernel at all, and that might cause at least some issue
• 2071[18:53:37] <Deji> If you exclude the hash looking thing after linux- it seems to give some results, but the ones I read have different details e.g. stack traces
• 2072[18:53:49] <jelly> Deji: where did you get this iso?
• 2073[18:54:27] <Deji> I got the same issues with Mint and Arch but have managed to boot all 3 at least once in some way (Debian had a weird graphics bug tho)
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• 2075[18:54:56] <Deji> From here: replaced-url
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• 2078[18:55:36] <jelly> Deji: how, precisely, did you write the image to your bootable medium?
• 2079[18:55:44] <Deji> This one: debian-live-10.2.0-amd64-mate+nonfree.iso
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• 2083[18:56:24] <Deji> Trying to remember the program name uhh...
• 2084[18:56:43] <Deji> Using rufus
• 2085[18:56:44] <jelly> tools like etcher or unetbootin or rufus can mess things up
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• 2089[18:57:09] <Deji> Hmm really? Got a recommendation on one that might have more luck?
• 2090[18:57:22] <Deji> I think I tried UNetBootin too
• 2091[18:57:26] <jelly> yeah. Overwrite the whole usb stick with debian iso, using cp or dd, and boot that
• 2092[18:58:15] <jelly> also, if your goal is to install, the installer image works better than the installer inside the live image, in some cases
• 2093[18:58:33] <Deji> Hmm? Is there another tool or are cp and dd linux commands? I only have windows working on my laptop
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• 2095[18:58:45] <jelly> on windows, use win32diskimager
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• 2097[18:59:01] <Deji> Alright thanks, will give that a shot
• 2098[18:59:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1592
• 2099[18:59:14] <jelly> !usb install
• 2100[18:59:14] <dpkg> You can install Debian from a USB stick/thumbdrive/pen drive/key on x86 systems, as long as your system's BIOS can boot from USB. Details are in the Installation Guide, see replaced-url
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• 2104[19:00:40] <Deji> mine is x64 and I was able to live boot mint but the installer wouldn't run, so when I got the boot manager for Debian up I decided to just skip to installing, but I'll try live running again
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• 2108[19:02:27] <jelly> if you have two usb sticks. and you can boot any live linux, you can create a debian installer or debian live stick at that point using linux commands like cp
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• 2110[19:03:23] <Deji> Unfortunately I've only got the one
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• 2112[19:03:37] <Deji> Got a memory card but it's not bootable
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• 2115[19:05:41] <jelly> you only need a 512MB stick for debian netinst, but it has to be bootable
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• 2120[19:07:29] <EdePopede> jelly: is this only a software thing (just cp/dd the iso to the raw device) or are there actually sticks which are not bootable at all for whatever reasons? (if so, i've never encountered any of these)
• 2121[19:08:05] <greycat> it's the computer's firmware/bios that decides what's bootable
• 2122[19:08:12] <jelly> EdePopede: it's a firmware and software thing
• 2123[19:08:37] *** Quits: njka- (~njka-@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
• 2124[19:09:11] <jelly> there are still 10yo 64bit servers that can't boot from a usb stick unless speshully prepared
• 2125[19:09:20] <EdePopede> ah. so i hope it's a thing of the past. such a design shouldn't exist outside of situation where it actually is desired.
• 2126[19:09:46] <oiaohm> EdePopede: there are a few odd ball USB flash drivers that have a resetting sector 0
• 2127[19:09:53] <jelly> there are also magical usb sticks that can pretend to be usb cdroms to work around it.
• 2128[19:10:01] <oiaohm> EdePopede: of course those are not boot sticks.
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• 2131[19:10:19] <oiaohm> EdePopede: or the cd rom as stick ones.
• 2132[19:10:32] <EdePopede> iirc there were also problems with early optical drives, there wasn't one single method which would work for all, the term superfloppy comes to my mind. but then, it was in the last decade i think, if not last millenium :)
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• 2134[19:12:35] <EdePopede> but i'll step back for the moment in favour to real support. may look out for some ideas later when - i hope - i finally will start the installation on that old lenovo
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• 2138[19:15:01] <Deji> I'm on a HP laptop. I suspect it may also need to be speshully prepared somehow but I'm not sure. At my wits end with this venture
• 2139[19:15:04] <jelly> we now have "hybrid iso" that can be booted from cd/dvd rom, or from hdd via legacy boot, or from hdd via uefi
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• 2142[19:15:45] <jelly> Deji: maybe if it's a laptop from 2006
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• 2144[19:16:59] <EdePopede> jelly: ah, right. just for fun i dd'd the 1st iso to a raw partition, wanted to see if it is possible to run it from there by loading it from the grub shell or with a manipulated boot string. would this work *somehow*? (will be the 1st thing i'll try then)
• 2145[19:18:45] <n4dir> there is a package called "*grml*" which will allow you to boot iso's via grub. I don't recall well (sure recall problems) and am not sure if the package still exists.
• 2146[19:19:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1586
• 2147[19:19:13] <n4dir> sure never had a big hype.
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• 2149[19:19:27] <jelly> EdePopede: debian images usually can't find themselves manipulated like that
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• 2151[19:20:06] <jelly> n4dir: grml-rescueboot works with grml.org ISOs because they're prepared to work that way
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• 2154[19:20:27] <n4dir> jelly: and won't work with debian, right? anyway: thanks for the info
• 2155[19:20:58] <EdePopede> so at this stage the boot process from stick is different than from hdd? i though it was all "just execute what you find at the beginning of the device"
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• 2157[19:21:06] <jelly> n4dir: I never tested, but suspect it won't work for d-i, and MAYBE might work with live
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• 2159[19:21:22] <n4dir> i guess i did test, and that were the problems i recall
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• 2163[19:22:17] <jelly> n4dir: most problems that d-i has with unetbootin and such stem not from being unable to boot, but not being smart enough to find its own content after kernel+initrd is booted
• 2164[19:23:04] <jelly> in other words, Debian COULD fix its installer so it works better with unetbootin, most other distros have :-)
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• 2168[19:24:08] <n4dir> let's just assume it won't work as a workaround in weird situations, to install debian. As you never hear of it.
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• 2170[19:24:47] <n4dir> i'd probably go with debootstrap, but am not sure what the actual problem is.
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• 2174[19:26:39] <jelly> explaining that method is annoying enough doing it in person with a coworker jr. sysadmin with decent linux knowledge... with a linux newbie over irc, it's not something I'd want to spend time doing
• 2175[19:27:09] <n4dir> sure.
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• 2177[19:27:42] <n4dir> i meant as a very last option for the one who wants it, if anything else fails. But you are right, sure.
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• 2180[19:32:04] <Deji> It's from 2013-2015 I think... but I heard Linux has issues with HP hardware
• 2181[19:32:20] <Deji> and I was getting a lot of ACPI mentions in the errors
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• 2195[19:43:26] <jhutchins_wk> EdePopede: Seems like there is a section in the IG that referrs to installing from a hard drive.
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• 2202[19:45:51] <EdePopede> "This will require some other operating system to load the installer onto the hard disk." - reminds me of lo^WLOADLIN.EXE?
• 2203[19:46:39] <EdePopede> oh, or maybe this one > replaced-url
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• 2205[19:46:52] <EdePopede> D.3. Installing Debian GNU/Linux from a Unix/Linux System
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• 2208[19:48:28] <EdePopede> i really don't rely on this particular method, i have the iso and some thumbdrives, but if it is possible *somehow*, why not doing it. it may or may not work, would cost me just some hours :)
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• 2218[19:51:54] <reis> hi! can debian's cron really not use an external SMTP server somehow? I just did that on out CentOS hosts by simply installing mailx and pointing cron to using it as the mail command. debian's version is missing that argument and all I'm finding points toward needing to install a local MTA. that's way more moving parts than just having mailx hand notifications off somewhere...
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• 2220[19:52:15] <Deji> Oof DiskImager even seems to fail to start
• 2221[19:52:26] <greycat> !ssmtp
• 2222[19:52:26] <dpkg> sSMTP is an extremely simple <MTA> to get mail off the system to a mailhub. It does not receive mail, expand aliases or manage a queue. replaced-url
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• 2225[19:53:12] <reis> greycat: that does take port 25, doesn't it?
• 2226[19:55:04] <reis> oh no it seems to be one of the wrappers that you have to specify in every cron command
• 2227[19:55:11] <EdePopede> is there a packed version of the install guide? there's the PDF and the online HTML. if not, i'd take the PDF to the other PC.
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• 2232[19:56:30] <reis> that's not an option, I'm looking for something that just slots into the default delivery mechanism so we don't miss any entried added by packages. the systems aren't maintained by hand.
• 2233[19:56:30] <Akuw> what means */2 * * * * specifically */2 in crontab ?
• 2234[19:56:40] <greycat> man 5 crontab
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• 2238[19:59:12] <Akuw> man crontab
• 2239[19:59:16] <greycat> man 5 crontab
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• 2242[19:59:43] <greycat> "man crontab" gives you crontab(1), the command invocation syntax, which is not the same as crontab(5), the file format
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• 2249[20:02:47] <reis> does debian maybe have alternative cron flavors available that support the -m flag like cronie? haven't found anything but maybe I'm being blind
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• 2254[20:03:38] <elm_> own repositories / extending BD repositories:
• 2255[20:03:50] <elm_> how to create a Contents file for apt-file?
• 2256[20:04:49] <Deji> Any other decent alternatives to writing a bootable USB? Win32DiskImager doesn't seem to wanna work at all
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• 2258[20:05:33] <elm_> replaced-url
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• 2261[20:05:46] <elm_> I just install gub; that worked for me
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• 2265[20:07:28] <Deji> gub? grub? Not sure what that entails
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• 2270[20:08:43] <elm_> just the grub package; see pkgdir/install-grub file in deblive-skeleton-v1.0.t.ar.bz2
• 2271[20:09:23] <elm_> you need to know where kernel and initrd are though
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• 2273[20:09:36] <elm_> and see also for the boot -directory in that archive
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• 2275[20:10:50] <drbw> now authenticated in case my messages weren't visible before
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• 2277[20:11:51] <Deji> I don't have linux. Only Windows is working on my laptop. And yeah I have no clue about any of that stuff
• 2278[20:11:52] <drbw> I was asking about a cron variant that supports the -m argument in stable like cronie or some other way to use mailx in order to send cron mail through an external server by default. (not by altering crontab lines.)
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• 2280[20:12:21] <Deji> I'm sure by this point I would gain more from attempting to create my own OS though lol
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• 2282[20:12:53] <jhutchins_wk> Deji: You need something that supplies the sendmail functionality.
• 2283[20:13:14] <towo`> Deji, try etcher
• 2284[20:13:23] <greycat> jhutchins_wk: you mean reis/drbw
• 2285[20:13:31] <greycat> !nullmailer
• 2286[20:13:32] <dpkg> i guess nullmailer is a minimal <MTA> for hosts which just sends directly to smart relays. Does not support /etc/aliases; define a catch-all alias in /etc/nullmailer/adminaddr instead, see adminaddr(5). replaced-url
• 2287[20:13:32] <drbw> greycat: thanks
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• 2289[20:13:43] <drbw> ... and without taking port 25, sorry
• 2290[20:13:45] <greycat> Just freaking pick one, and install it, and configure it, and be done with it.
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• 2293[20:14:02] <greycat> whatever "taking port 25" means
• 2294[20:15:27] <drbw> without listening on it of course -.- I'm sure you know that.
• 2295[20:15:38] <greycat> Why would that matter?
• 2296[20:16:01] <greycat> But anyway, exim4 in "smarthost only" mode only listens on port 25 on localhost, not on the other networks.
• 2297[20:16:15] <greycat> I would imagine ALL THE OTHER NULL MAILERS are similar, or don't listen at all.
• 2298[20:16:18] <greycat> Maybe you could freaking TRY ONE.
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• 2300[20:16:28] <drbw> because there will be commercial mail applications running on some of the systems that I can't interfere with.
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• 2302[20:16:57] <drbw> greycat: or you could try to stfu instead of yelling at me out of the blue.
• 2303[20:17:01] <greycat> I am going to choose to interpret that as "I am a mass mailer/spammer". *plonk*
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• 2305[20:17:18] <drbw> thanks, that will improve my experience of this channel
• 2306[20:17:20] <drbw> wtf
• 2307[20:17:23] <greycat> Even if I'm wrong, you're already not someone I want to spent any more time dealing with.
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• 2311[20:19:02] <drbw> you can't just recommend something that doesn't match my requirements and then absolutely explode in my face when I say that. it's easily possible to do on CentOS and thus not an unreasonable question.
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• 2324[20:22:16] <drbw> and nullmailer, ssmtp and mailx all seem to have the same functionality that doesn't appear to work with cron by defualt
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• 2341[20:31:52] <_yoloninja_> hello gents!
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• 2351[20:36:10] <spiderbubble> hi, does anyone know what the last part of this command does in bash? `command -v program >&-`
• 2352[20:36:33] <greycat> A grave mistake, is what it is.
• 2353[20:36:49] <greycat> replaced-url
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• 2356[20:37:27] <greycat> >&- or 1>&- closes stdout before executing the command. The wiki page explains why this is bad.
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• 2359[20:39:03] <spiderbubble> thanks, hah
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• 2395[21:01:16] <JonathanArcher> Take my Star Trek survey replaced-url
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• 2403[21:02:55] <Deji> Well Etcher says flash complete, and also says 1 failed device "\\.\PhysicalDrive2: Unmount failed". Not sure what to make of that...
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• 2407[21:03:51] <Deji> Now the USB drive doesn't seem to want to mount at all... |:
• 2408[21:04:00] <Deji> Kill me
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• 2422[21:15:51] <jhutchins_wk> Deji: Get a live iso. Burn it to disc or USB. Use it to dd or cp the installer iso to the drive.
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• 2424[21:16:41] <jhutchins_wk> Do the live images have debootstrap?
• 2425[21:17:11] <Deji> Don't have a DVD drive (opted for GFX instead which is probably half of why linux won't work) and apparently Etcher just killed my only USB
• 2426[21:17:36] <Deji> I have an ext HDD but it has all my data backups
• 2427[21:18:22] <jhutchins_wk> Deji: Yeah, don't go compounding your errors.
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• 2429[21:18:28] <Deji> That was a 64GB stick damn it
• 2430[21:18:49] <jhutchins_wk> Deji: It's possible that the stick was failing which was why you were having so much trouble.
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• 2432[21:19:27] <whislock> Deji: It's doubtful that Etcher destroyed the drive. It may not mount because there's not a recognizable filesystem.
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• 2437[21:20:53] <Deji> Maybe... the same is true with my HDD tbf... has bad sectors, but they've been moved into free space. But yeah a major reason I want linux is to protect my laptop until I can get another. I feel like Windows is battering it and making it worse over time.
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• 2439[21:21:52] <Deji> At least Windows still boots and works soundly though. Guess I just need to research a decent laptop to install Linux on for when I can afford one.
• 2440[21:21:55] <whislock> If the disk has bad sectors, it doesn't matter what you use. Your days are numbered.
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• 2448[21:23:14] <Deji> Yeah, I thought about buying an internal HDD replacement but fucking with laptop internals sounds daunting and the thing is 3yrs old at least. If I replace it I bet something else will just break and cost me more than a replacement
• 2449[21:23:15] <greycat> Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold.
• 2450[21:23:29] <humbot> 3 years
• 2451[21:23:36] <whislock> Deji: Unless it's a Mac, most HDD replacements are a simple matter. And 3 years isn't much.
• 2452[21:24:27] <Deji> It's HP though and apparently HP and Linux aren't a great match. So worth at least getting an upgrade that will support linux better.
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• 2455[21:24:42] <whislock> That's... a questionable assertion.
• 2456[21:24:54] <whislock> Try booting from a live image not written with a totally crap utility.
• 2457[21:25:09] *** Joins: puxavida (~comptekki@replaced-ip)
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• 2460[21:25:26] <Deji> I did boot Mint from live image... but the installer wouldn't work... /shrugs
• 2461[21:25:37] *** Quits: y0kowka (~y0kowka@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 2462[21:25:37] <whislock> Last I checked, we're in #debian.
• 2463[21:25:39] *** Joins: puxavida (~comptekki@replaced-ip)
• 2464[21:25:40] *** Quits: puxavida (~comptekki@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 2465[21:25:52] <Deji> Then I installed Debian fine, but it wouldn't boot... lifes circles
• 2466[21:26:03] <JonathanArcher> whislock: you fucking genius
• 2467[21:26:04] <greycat> I won't question that there are *certain* HP devices that cause problems, especially if it was right after the Compaq merger. But in general, overall, HP devices are not problematic.
• 2468[21:26:04] <JonathanArcher> heil hitler
• 2469[21:26:04] *** Quits: JonathanArcher (~NX-01@replaced-ip) (Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.)))
• 2470[21:26:06] <whislock> That said... Trying to install any OS to a dying HDD - Windows or otherwise - is only going to force the disk into failure.
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• 2476[21:27:25] <Deji> Well I hope I didn't screw myself by partitioning it to shit... I need my laptop for dev work so I can earn enough for a new laptop for dev work... again, life's circles
• 2477[21:27:45] <whislock> Deji: Or... just replace the hard drive.
• 2478[21:28:02] <Deji> it's hardly an exceptional laptop either, I'd like an upgrade
• 2479[21:28:09] <whislock> You're complaining about money.
• 2480[21:28:20] <Deji> when is anybody not?
• 2481[21:28:25] *** Quits: thePiGrepper (~nagato@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
• 2482[21:28:26] <whislock> Me, right now?
• 2483[21:28:28] <GenTooMan> me
• 2484[21:28:33] <whislock> Me in general, actually.
• 2485[21:28:44] *** Joins: zeden (~user@replaced-ip)
• 2486[21:28:53] *** Parts: zat888 (~zzz@replaced-ip) ("Leaving")
• 2487[21:28:56] <whislock> Deji: If you're short on funds, a hard drive is cheaper than a laptop. You're making "bizarre" decisions, for a very brutal definition of "bizarre."
• 2488[21:29:06] <Deji> You're complaining about me not doing something after complaining about money... close enough lol
• 2489[21:29:37] <Deji> As I say, if I replace the HDD, something else will just break soon. Or Linux will still not install anyway.
• 2490[21:29:39] <whislock> That statement is about as "bizarre" as your decision making process. ;)
• 2491[21:29:41] <whislock> You do you.
• 2492[21:29:51] <whislock> If you were clairvoyant, you wouldn't be complaining about money.
• 2493[21:29:56] <GenTooMan> sometimes we have to realize we are human and just try to be remotely rational. Namely replacing the HD is more likely to work than something else fail.
• 2494[21:30:02] <whislock> ^
• 2495[21:30:44] <Deji> I doubt the reason Linux won't install is only because an otherwise completely functional HDD has a few bad sectors and is on the road to death...
• 2496[21:30:54] <whislock> Um...
• 2497[21:30:58] *** Joins: conyers (~conyers@replaced-ip)
• 2498[21:31:01] <Deji> Debian installed, it just won't boot
• 2499[21:31:02] <whislock> That is a VERY good reason for an install to fail.
• 2500[21:31:10] <Deji> windows is also installed, and boots fine
• 2501[21:31:10] <whislock> Or a failure to boot. Either way.
• 2502[21:31:31] <Deji> why does linux require a more pristine HDD than Windows?
• 2503[21:31:53] <whislock> The behavior of a failing disk is not deterministic. It will vary rapidly.
• 2504[21:32:11] <lupine> you say that, but
• 2505[21:32:13] <Deji> But the errors were very consistent
• 2506[21:32:16] <whislock> You've been given all of the advice you're going to get. You're going to continue down the path of unintelligent choices. Arguing facts is boring.
• 2507[21:32:20] *** Quits: Ycarus (~Ycarus@replaced-ip) (Quit: Ycarus)
• 2508[21:32:28] <GenTooMan> I suggest system rescue first
• 2509[21:32:37] <lupine> replaced-url
• 2510[21:33:04] <Deji> I don't hear many facts, just opinions, and I accept their general validity, I just argue from my closer experience that they apply to my case
• 2511[21:33:15] <whislock> lupine: That's for enterprise SAS disks. Is that relevant to something?
• 2512[21:33:36] <lupine> it's an example of deterministic disc failures
• 2513[21:33:47] *** Joins: asymptotically (~asymptoti@replaced-ip)
• 2514[21:33:48] <whislock> It's an example of a firmware bug, not failing sectors.
• 2515[21:33:50] <lupine> other sources of deterministic disc failures are available
• 2516[21:33:54] <whislock> And those are SSDs.
• 2517[21:34:05] <whislock> So the relevance here is precisely zero.
• 2518[21:34:06] <lupine> sure
• 2519[21:34:14] <lupine> the relevance to the general point is hiugh
• 2520[21:34:30] <Deji> I booted into recovery mode but wasn't too sure what to do with that
• 2521[21:34:31] <whislock> HDD != SSD. Firmware != disk. Laptop != enterprise SAS.
• 2522[21:34:35] <whislock> It's ACTUALLY zero.
• 2523[21:34:41] <lupine> oh dear
• 2524[21:34:45] <lupine> better luck next time
• 2525[21:34:47] *** Quits: JohnML (~john1@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2526[21:34:58] <whislock> Luck has nothing to do with it. Simple facts and READING.
• 2527[21:35:07] <Deji> I attempted to disable a service that was hanging at bootup but it continued to run
• 2528[21:35:08] <whislock> Basic skills.
• 2529[21:35:26] *** Quits: frikinz (~me@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2530[21:35:52] <GenTooMan> You may wish to test the system using something other than windows (which notoriously hides problems). Such as System rescue replaced-url
• 2531[21:36:13] *** Joins: cdown (~cdown@replaced-ip)
• 2532[21:36:25] * annadane rolls a dice
• 2533[21:36:43] <whislock> d6, d20, or other?
• 2534[21:36:55] *** Quits: milkt (~debian@replaced-ip) (Quit: leaving)
• 2535[21:36:57] <GenTooMan> d16?
• 2536[21:37:04] <whislock> Hexadiceimal.
• 2537[21:37:09] <GenTooMan> yeah :D
• 2538[21:37:45] *** Joins: cugel_ (~abouju@replaced-ip)
• 2539[21:38:00] <Deji> I will give that a shot. I already tested my system using HPs own diagnostics but it only discovered the HDD issues
• 2540[21:38:14] *** Parts: cugel_ (~abouju@replaced-ip) ()
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• 2543[21:38:57] <Deji> But first I guess I'd need a new USB stick or something
• 2544[21:39:33] <GenTooMan> Well yeah... might help I always have 3 spares just in case I need to use them for something like that.
• 2545[21:39:38] *** Quits: Ran (~Kiroat@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 2546[21:41:22] <jhutchins_wk> Deji: It's a good point that it is probably easier to fix whyever Debian isn't booting than to fix the image copy problem and reinstall.
• 2547[21:41:31] <jhutchins_wk> !fixgrub
• 2548[21:41:31] <dpkg> To reinstall <GRUB> boot to your Debian install disk/live CD, switch to the other console (Alt-F2), mount your root filesystem (mount -t ext4 /dev/whatever /target ; mount --bind /dev /target/dev ; mount -t proc none /target/proc ; mount -t sysfs none /target/sys), chroot into it (chroot /target), run "mount /boot/efi" on EFI and "update-grub && grub-install /dev/whatever". See also <rescue mode>, <dual boot guide>, <supergrub>.
• 2549[21:41:46] <jhutchins_wk> Deji: What kind of symptoms do you get when you try to boot?
• 2550[21:42:02] <Deji> I have a gallery of photos of screens
• 2551[21:42:09] <Deji> Full of errors
• 2552[21:42:17] <jhutchins_wk> Deji: So read them.
• 2553[21:42:24] *** Quits: tekmans13 (~tekmans@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 2554[21:43:02] <Deji> I have. Not sure what to make of them. Many are claimed to be just regular boot messages. Some I can only read part of due to console buffer scrollback limits
• 2555[21:43:19] *** Joins: P1ersson (~P1ersson@replaced-ip)
• 2556[21:43:42] <Deji> the most prominent one is the one I first wrotr about, a linux "kernel BUG" that keeps popping up on every distro
• 2557[21:43:44] *** Quits: pjutier (~cmd.exe@89.244.26.202) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2558[21:44:06] <greycat> the one that says 4.15.0 which is not a Debian kernel version?
• 2559[21:44:06] <Deji> seems to mention ACPI issues
• 2560[21:44:21] <Deji> it's a LINUX kernel version
• 2561[21:44:47] <Deji> the source file if you google it is on github under linus torvalds account
• 2562[21:44:56] *** Quits: seekr (~seekr@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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• 2564[21:46:18] *** Joins: thePiGrepper (~nagato@replaced-ip)
• 2565[21:46:29] <Deji> It happens before any "welcome to Debian" message shows
• 2566[21:46:35] <Deji> way before
• 2567[21:46:41] *** Joins: galoube_ (~gaga@replaced-ip)
• 2568[21:47:17] <Deji> It still fails often after that, but IMO that error is the first sign of trouble
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• 2575[21:50:11] <Deji> Heres a capture of the error: replaced-url
• 2576[21:50:12] *** Joins: sinaptik (sinaptik@replaced-ip)
• 2577[21:50:33] <Deji> Oddly enough, that time it didn't show the full path including kernel version
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• 2579[21:51:17] *** Joins: debhead1 (~debhead@replaced-ip)
• 2580[21:51:36] <greycat> replaced-url
• 2581[21:51:51] <Deji> No matter the distro, a kernel BUG error message referencing the mm/slub.c file pops up
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• 2585[21:52:14] <greycat> seems the /build/linux-*/linux-4.15.0/ thing is from Ubuntu
• 2586[21:52:17] <Deji> That report shows a very different call trace
• 2587[21:52:25] *** Quits: krabador (~krabador@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2588[21:52:43] <dob1> greycat, just to be clear because I read the logs today: no, I was not checking my copied files using cat and wc, I needed to concatenate files for another tasks and keep a copy of each of them
• 2589[21:53:39] <greycat> replaced-url
• 2590[21:54:10] *** Joins: wondiws (~Jasper@replaced-ip)
• 2591[21:54:15] *** Joins: zyun (~zyun@replaced-ip)
• 2592[21:54:19] <wondiws> is MonoDevelop still available in Debian?
• 2593[21:54:58] *** Quits: nav2002_ (~nav2002@replaced-ip##) (Quit: Going offline, see ya! (##replaced-url
• 2594[21:55:00] <Deji> replaced-url
• 2595[21:55:10] <Deji> I got it on Arch too
• 2596[21:55:18] <Deji> and Mint
• 2597[21:55:39] *** Quits: we6jbo (~we6jbo@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2598[21:56:56] *** Joins: gyuma1etyr (~gyuma1ety@replaced-ip)
• 2599[21:57:00] <gyuma1etyr> join #linux
• 2600[21:57:02] *** Joins: rue_shop2 (~rue_mohr@replaced-ip)
• 2601[21:57:05] *** Quits: seekr (~seekr@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2602[21:57:24] <rue_shop2> is it debians decision not to make a menu category called "3d printing" or one of the subprojects?
• 2603[21:57:48] <annadane> gyuma1etyr, you're probably looking for ##linux
• 2604[21:58:00] <greycat> and /join needs a /
• 2605[21:58:13] <gyuma1etyr> yep it was a mistake sorry
• 2606[21:58:38] <gyuma1etyr> here is what i wanted to do:
• 2607[21:58:38] *** Quits: zyun (~zyun@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
• 2608[21:58:45] <gyuma1etyr> echo "ls -la" | xargs # not working
• 2609[21:58:51] <gyuma1etyr> echo "ls -la" | eval # not working either
• 2610[21:58:56] *** Quits: tlaxkit (~kvirc@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
• 2611[21:59:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1578
• 2612[21:59:03] <greycat> The pain. Make it stop.
• 2613[21:59:40] <Deji> Life is nothing but pain
• 2614[22:00:11] * annadane recommends a copy of Windows
• 2615[22:00:20] <ksk> gyuma1etyr: what are you trying to achieve?
• 2616[22:00:47] <gyuma1etyr> ksk i have many commands before with awk etc., all of them piped, and at the end i'd like to execute this
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• 2620[22:01:13] *** Quits: lanyue_ (~lanyue@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 2621[22:01:17] <whislock> gyuma1etyr: There are a large quantity of issues with what you're trying. I think you need to learn basics before trying stuff like this.
• 2622[22:01:18] <greycat> gyuma1etyr: put them in a file. Make sure the first line of the file has "#!/bin/bash" without the quotes. chmod +x the file. Voila.
• 2623[22:01:19] *** Quits: progart (~kamee@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving.)
• 2624[22:01:24] <wondiws> has MonoDevelop been removed?
• 2625[22:01:31] <gyuma1etyr> no...
• 2626[22:01:36] <gyuma1etyr> i know these things
• 2627[22:02:02] *** Quits: Deji (~deji@replaced-ip) (Quit: Bye)
• 2628[22:02:04] <gyuma1etyr> but i'd like to know if it's possible to pipe a string to eval or xargs
• 2629[22:02:04] <whislock> I assure you, you don't.
• 2630[22:02:05] *** Joins: hilt (~hilt@replaced-ip)
• 2631[22:02:13] <greycat> gyuma1etyr: why?
• 2632[22:02:21] <gyuma1etyr> already explained ^
• 2633[22:02:40] <greycat> Not to my satisfaction. I see you attempting to sabotage yourself.
• 2634[22:02:49] <ksk> no, you did not explain it. the answer for me does not contain any technical statement I (or others, I suppose) can parse..
• 2635[22:02:54] <greycat> Either that, or you are a nascent script kiddie.
• 2636[22:03:50] *** Quits: TheM4rco (~TheM4rco@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
• 2637[22:04:21] <greycat> I don't even want to see a "technical statement". Just a rationale. A simple sentence containing the word "because".
• 2638[22:04:28] <gyuma1etyr> never mind
• 2639[22:04:45] <greycat> nascent script kiddie hypothesis score increases
• 2640[22:05:15] <gyuma1etyr> even if there is no final reason, it is interesting to know if it's possible to pipe like that: command1 | command2 | command3 | eval
• 2641[22:05:21] <greycat> *plonk*
• 2642[22:05:28] <gyuma1etyr> instead of eval "$(command1 | command2 | command3)"
• 2643[22:05:34] <whislock> greycat: I think you've achieved the required 5-sigma confidence to announce a discovery.
• 2644[22:05:52] <greycat> No, just the 1-sigma threshold for /ignore.
• 2645[22:06:27] <gyuma1etyr> sarcasm + passive agressive score confirmed too :)
• 2646[22:06:50] *** Joins: maxdawid (~maxdawid@replaced-ip)
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• 2648[22:07:14] *** Joins: malmalmal (~malmalmal@replaced-ip)
• 2649[22:07:16] <whislock> gyuma1etyr: In all honesty, you need to go back to Linux commands 101. Good luck.
• 2650[22:07:17] *** Parts: sinaptik (sinaptik@replaced-ip) ("WeeChat 2.6")
• 2651[22:07:17] <jhutchins_wk> He not only wants a wrong answer, he wants a _specic_ wrong answer.
• 2652[22:07:35] <gyuma1etyr> whislock, why?
• 2653[22:07:52] <whislock> gyuma1etyr: Because it's painfully obvious that you have no clue what you're doing.
• 2654[22:07:55] *** Quits: peterS (~peter@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 2655[22:07:58] <gyuma1etyr> why do you assume, that by default, the asker is always a noob?
• 2656[22:08:01] <jhutchins_wk> gyuma1etyr: Because things seriously do not work the way you appear to think they do.
• 2657[22:08:05] <annadane> describe your problem with words in english, then we can tell you what commands to plug in
• 2658[22:08:08] <annadane> !ask
• 2659[22:08:09] <dpkg> If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
• 2660[22:08:15] <gyuma1etyr> I *know* what I'm doing precisely here
• 2661[22:08:27] <jhutchins_wk> gyuma1etyr: Then why doesn't it work?
• 2662[22:08:33] <annadane> okay but everyone else is telling you you don't, so listen to us
• 2663[22:08:38] *** Joins: uniqdom (~uniqdom@replaced-ip)
• 2664[22:08:39] <greycat> He has no problem. There is no goal here. He just wants to play around. So, he can play around all he likes. We can't stop him. But that doesn't mean we have to help him shoot himself in the foot.
• 2665[22:08:44] *** Joins: leightski (~leightski@replaced-ip)
• 2666[22:08:46] <gyuma1etyr> jhutchins_wk, because eval doesn't take stdin to do it :)
• 2667[22:08:59] <gyuma1etyr> but i'm looking for something that works in a similar fashion
• 2668[22:09:21] *** Joins: dvs (~hibbard@replaced-ip)
• 2669[22:09:38] <gyuma1etyr> come on, ok it's not because we ask a question that we are noobs / script kiddie or i don't know why...
• 2670[22:09:41] <jhutchins_wk> gyuma1etyr: Maybe you should find out what eval _does_ want.
• 2671[22:10:06] <gyuma1etyr> jhutchins_wk, .... i *do* know, and i know that eval is not the right tool for that...
• 2672[22:10:10] *** Joins: seekr (~seekr@replaced-ip)
• 2673[22:10:17] <gyuma1etyr> but it was just to give "the idea"
• 2674[22:10:41] <gyuma1etyr> pfereplaced-url
• 2675[22:10:45] <greycat> eval doesn't read shell commands on stdin. it takes shell commands as arguments. totally not what you want at the tail of a pipeline.
• 2676[22:11:04] <gyuma1etyr> greycat, i *know that* and said it twice before...
• 2677[22:11:08] <greycat> if only there were some kind of process that could read shell commands on stdin and interpret them and execute them
• 2678[22:11:14] <uniqdom> Hello, can I connect two CPUs over ethernet but not with a cable and connectors, but with traces over a PCB?
• 2679[22:11:21] <gyuma1etyr> i mentioned eval to give the idea of what I'm trying to do: eval a command...
• 2680[22:11:31] *** Quits: TheWizard (~thewizard@replaced-ip##) (Quit: KVIrc 5.0.0 Aria ##replaced-url
• 2681[22:11:36] <whislock> uniqdom: Not only no, but that is not a Debian question.
• 2682[22:11:45] *** Quits: wytchmaster (~wytchmast@replaced-ip##) (Quit: ##replaced-url
• 2683[22:11:57] *** Quits: Ericounet (~Eric@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2684[22:12:07] <uniqdom> Oh sorry. wrong channel :))
• 2685[22:13:01] *** Parts: xormor (~xormor@replaced-ip) ("Leaving")
• 2686[22:13:22] *** Joins: tlaxkit (~kvirc@replaced-ip)
• 2687[22:13:47] <gyuma1etyr> "I think you've achieved the required 5-sigma confidence to announce a discovery.", "No, just the 1-sigma threshold for /ignore"
• 2688[22:13:52] <gyuma1etyr> Interesting reading for you: replaced-url
• 2689[22:14:02] <gyuma1etyr> Bye bye
• 2690[22:14:12] <annadane> don't let the door hit you on the way out
• 2691[22:14:22] <whislock> gyuma1etyr: And this is for your case: replaced-url
• 2692[22:14:27] <annadane> oh, damn it, he's not leaving
• 2693[22:14:37] <annadane> then i guess i'll take the /ignore advice too
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• 2714[22:24:25] <Deji> If my int. HDD was really the cause of every linux distro failing to boot/install... surely that would mean if I tried to install to an ext. HDD it should work? I'm super skeptical about that conclusion...
• 2715[22:24:53] <greycat> I would imagine the mm/slub.c stuff is not related to the hdd.
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• 2718[22:26:09] <annadane> meh sorry for being hostile to that person
• 2719[22:26:16] <annadane> i shouldn't have added to the noise
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• 2721[22:29:30] <Deji> Which is part of the reason I think replacing the laptop is the better call. Also my laptop battery is also crap and at one point seemed to not hold a charge (but since fixed itself somewhat) and the charger needed replacing and I ended up buying one that doesn't seem to protect much against static since I get shocked when plugged into certain circuits
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• 2726[22:30:35] <Deji> Oh yeah and the cde3 column of keys keep not working. I assume a bad connection to thr mobo is the cause
• 2727[22:30:56] *** Quits: black_ant (~antilope@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
• 2728[22:31:24] <jhutchins_wk> Deji: What happened to the idea of booting to a live image and trying to fix the boot?
• 2729[22:31:27] *** Quits: pringau (~pringau@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 2730[22:31:37] <Deji> Fix the boot how?
• 2731[22:31:54] <Deji> It will take like half an hour at least to luck my way into booting
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• 2735[22:33:07] <Deji> Might be worth at least trying to fix my USB stick though
• 2736[22:33:42] <livebrain> why half of hour ?
• 2737[22:34:21] <Deji> that's another thought... if my USB drive was faulty, my HDD is faulty, and the keyboard and battery have been kinda faulty, it kinda adds up to me that my laptop is killing them lol
• 2738[22:34:45] <Deji> I have to do a bunch of weird things to get linux to boot
• 2739[22:35:14] <livebrain> why dont you test your hdd ?
• 2740[22:35:25] <livebrain> smartmontools ?
• 2741[22:35:29] <Deji> sometimes just entering the BIOS settings before booting makes it work... sometimes hitting the enter key randomly makes it boot... etc. etc.
• 2742[22:35:34] *** Quits: conyers (~conyers@replaced-ip) (Quit: ZZZzzz…)
• 2743[22:35:37] <Deji> I already know my HDD is failing
• 2744[22:35:55] *** Joins: Immanuel (~Manu@replaced-ip)
• 2745[22:35:59] <Deji> bad sectors exist which have been moved to free space to slow down its death
• 2746[22:36:16] <livebrain> sometimes a bad sector doesnt mean its dying
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• 2748[22:36:29] <livebrain> i have hdds running with bad sectors for years
• 2749[22:37:13] <Deji> Well I told people here and they told me that was the cause of all the issues I'm having installing linux /shrugs
• 2750[22:37:42] <Deji> didn't want to say that I think that's just trying to deny that linux simply isn't working well with this device
• 2751[22:38:26] <jhutchins_wk> ,pciid 8086-5917
• 2752[22:38:27] <Deji> I'm trying to be open to others opinions though (coz if I don't flaming wars inevitably ensue)
• 2753[22:38:45] <jhutchins_wk> judd: ping
• 2754[22:38:47] <judd> pong
• 2755[22:38:56] <jhutchins_wk> judd: pciid 8086-5917
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• 2758[22:39:15] <annadane> ,pciid [8086-5917]
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• 2760[22:39:29] <annadane> ,pciid 8086:5917
• 2761[22:39:31] <judd> [8086:5917] is 'UHD Graphics 620' from 'Intel Corporation' with kernel modules 'i915', 'snd-hda-intel', 'ata-generic' in stretch. See also replaced-url
• 2762[22:39:57] <livebrain> Deji: what laptop do you have ?
• 2763[22:40:04] <jhutchins_wk> annadane: What did you do differently?
• 2764[22:40:08] <annadane> :
• 2765[22:40:17] <annadane> judd told me the correct format in PM
• 2766[22:40:24] <Deji> HP Envy [15?]
• 2767[22:40:37] <jhutchins_wk> D'Oh! - instead of :
• 2768[22:40:38] <greycat> PCI IDs have colons
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• 2770[22:41:07] <annadane> "Error: I don't know what you mean by PCI Id '[8086-5917]'. 0000:0000 is my preferred format where both vendor Id and device Id are are in hexadecimal. You can find the PCI Id in the output of 'lspci -nn'."
• 2771[22:41:25] *** Joins: TheM4rco (~TheM4rco@replaced-ip)
• 2772[22:41:42] <annadane> but yeah i should've known that already
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• 2775[22:44:18] <livebrain> Deji: replaced-url
• 2776[22:44:27] <livebrain> it seems there are certain issues with that laptop
• 2777[22:44:52] <jhutchins_wk> I've had very bad luck with HP and Linux.
• 2778[22:44:53] <greycat> it's more issues than laptop
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• 2782[22:46:39] <TheM4rco> replaced-url
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• 2788[22:50:58] <Deji> Yeah that's what I figured
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• 2790[22:51:36] <Deji> And why I wanna just replace it with something better and more open. Though, that page reports the specs as mostly Intel hardware, while mine is AMD
• 2791[22:51:51] <Deji> Though the wireless is Intel
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• 2797[22:55:58] <jhutchins_wk> Deji: Dell sells laptops with linux pre-installed which is a good sign they're pretty compatible.
• 2798[22:56:55] <Deji> Yeah I heard Dell and Linux paired nicely. I have a hard time shopping for laptops though since I'm Ireland based
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• 2800[22:57:56] <Zathras> lenovo & linux usually play nicely too
• 2801[22:58:07] <jhutchins_wk> Deji: Lucky you. Yeah, PC gear was a lot more expensive over there when I was.
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• 2804[22:58:49] <jhutchins_wk> Deji: I would think Dell would sell directly to Ireland on-line at least.
• 2805[22:59:23] <jhutchins_wk> A lot of companies have employee discounts from Dell.
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• 2832[23:20:17] <Deji> So all I need to do is land a job at Dell and get a laptop for a normal price!
• 2833[23:20:44] <Deji> Kinda figured buying directly from manufacturers would be more expensive
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• 2852[23:32:49] <ZaZaGX> will my flip phone run on Debian?
• 2853[23:33:13] <towo`> no
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• 2855[23:33:15] *** fstd_ is now known as fstd
• 2856[23:34:12] <ZaZaGX> but it runs on Kai OS, which was a fork of Firefox OS, running on linux
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• 2864[23:36:38] <towo`> ZaZaGX, i see you don't anderstand sarcasm, so i will say it in other words, "my flip phone" does no one knows here!
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• 2867[23:37:03] <humbot> pardon
• 2868[23:37:11] <ZaZaGX> i don't get sarcasm
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• 2891[23:58:33] <roylapra1tep> what file do i need to remove to get the new ethernet interface names?
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