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• 1[00:00:08] <zerocool> for instance some configs show bond_mode and some show bond-mode
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• 6[00:00:34] <zerocool> also in some cases i see 'slaves eno1 eno2' in others I see 'bond-slaves eno1 eno2'
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• 12[00:02:39] <zerocool> here's an example, notice everyone's examples, even they flip between - and _ replaced-url
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• 14[00:06:26] <zerocool> maybes it's just that bond always uses '-' and bridge always uses '_'
• 15[00:06:43] <rant> zerocool: I'm not familiar with this and apropos turns up nothing on my system however I'd reference Pablo Mellado
• 16[00:06:54] <rant> hmm.. ignore that.. paste fail
• 17[00:07:06] <rant> replaced-url
• 18[00:07:39] <rant> replaced-url
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• 21[00:08:42] <rant> I'd also note that this feature upstream seems to have not been updated much and that said, perhaps a newer method like systemd might be better going forward
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• 24[00:09:40] <zerocool> rant: thanks, the second link at least mentions the `bond-*` options for interfaces
• 25[00:10:11] <zerocool> so, im guessing for bond options i use - and bridge i use _
• 26[00:10:26] <rant> zerocool: well when in doubt go to the official sources rather than random things like stackexchange :P
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• 28[00:11:28] <rant> I've done some bridging before but I never heard of bonding.. I guess its a method of implementaing a fallback system from what I gather
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• 31[00:12:37] <zerocool> i have bonds and bridges everywhere, i even have everything documented, I'm just fighting with a weird config now and trying to figure out where the problem is
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• 33[00:13:07] <zerocool> like 4 port LACP with bridges to different vlans for vm's and things
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• 35[00:13:31] <rant> well hopefully the Debian Wiki and Kernel documentation will help sort things out
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• 40[00:15:41] <altker128> Hey guys. Anyone here ever use NFS client for Win7 or Win10? Debating going through the pain of setting up Samba vs. using NFSv3
• 41[00:16:07] <whislock> Do you have Windows 10 Enterprise?
• 42[00:16:35] <rant> zerocool: from my understanding lookin over this the use of - is a interfaces convention which is why you see things like bond-mode where as the use of _ is a kernel convention and boding is a kernel driver which is why there is also mention of using that in the kernel documentation
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• 44[00:16:53] <whislock> Or Windows 7 Enterprise or Ultimate?
• 45[00:17:49] <whislock> Ah, wait, I think 10 Pro can do NFS, now.
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• 47[00:18:23] <altker128> whislock: Win7 Ultimate and Win710 Pro w/NFS client (Windows is the client, not the server).
• 48[00:18:55] <whislock> I know that Windows is the client. Used to be that NFS client functionality was limited to Enterprise. That changed apparently quite a while back.
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• 63[00:26:08] <rant> zerocool: fwiw there is also documentation at /usr/share/doc/ifenslave/ and options are listed in README.Debian there. I'd use the - for interfaces and only use _ when speaking directly to the driver as in modutils or such
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• 78[00:38:55] <zerocool> the problem i was having was that i did not have ifenslave -_-
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• 80[00:39:11] <zerocool> installed
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• 82[00:39:26] <zerocool> lesson learned
• 83[00:39:39] <zerocool> thanks for your time rant, appreciatcha
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• 85[00:43:22] <neoice> so I think my initramfs isn't being generated properly. are there any specific things I should do to verify?
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• 91[00:46:18] <nkuttler> neoice: why do you think that? and how do you generate it?
• 92[00:46:19] <whislock> neoice: What's the root issue that's causing you to suspect that?
• 93[00:46:52] <neoice> drops into busybox shell, no keyboard input. old kernel still works.
• 94[00:47:12] <neoice> says it can't find disk by UUID but it totally is there
• 95[00:47:49] <neoice> I suffered a severe crash during an apt update
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• 97[00:48:31] <dvs> ouch!
• 98[00:48:57] <neoice> from bug reports online, it looks like there's a variety of packages involved in the initramfs creation life cycle
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• 102[00:49:42] <jasabella> are nvidia video cards still tricky to get right if you use the non-free/proprietary drivers or is it like wifi cards? generally fairly fuss free?
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• 106[00:50:23] <joepublic> fuss free proprietary wifi drivers? enserio?
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• 108[00:50:34] <dvs> jasabella, It's still troublesome
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• 113[00:52:25] <InvisibleRasta> hey guys how can i install the minimal gnome DE?
• 114[00:52:45] <InvisibleRasta> i tried with apt-get install task-gnome-desktop but i think it install the full DE with apps and so on
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• 119[00:53:54] <annadane> InvisibleRasta, gnome-core?
• 120[00:54:04] <annadane> replaced-url
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• 122[00:54:29] <InvisibleRasta> ahnice
• 123[00:54:45] <joepublic> `apt-rdepends gnome` produces over 8000 lines of output, so I am thinking that's not it
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• 125[00:55:18] <joepublic> gnome-core: only 5300
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• 127[00:55:30] <joepublic> s/only/'only'
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• 171[01:20:23] <edumass> Hello, I have a 500gb hd, harddisk sentinel reports health 92% (8 bad sectors), Is there a way to install debian blocking bad sectors ? ( i think win is possible to block bad sectors)
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• 174[01:21:25] <joepublic> Unless the drive is really, really old, it should map its own bad sectors silently. If it has enough bad sectors that they eat into the capacity of the drive, that is generally a sign of impending failure.
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• 177[01:21:50] <xparanoik> check S.M.A.R.T data
• 178[01:21:52] <joepublic> It if just has some bad sectors remapped internally, that is probably not a problem.
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• 184[01:24:53] <edumass> it is a segate barracuda, date code 13015 and DOM 07/2012. not other data that looks like a date hehe
• 185[01:25:06] <edumass> I will check with smart viewer
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• 188[01:25:54] <SerajewelKS> remapped sectors can be sufficient to get a warranty replacement
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• 190[01:26:38] <SerajewelKS> (i got a free replacement on a 3TB WD red disk because it had a handful of remapped sectors. however, it also didn't remap them so silently and returned read errors to the OS for awhile. so i had to rebuild a mirror.)
• 191[01:27:11] <SerajewelKS> first time i've had to rebuild a raid1 in my personal server, was nice not having to restore any backups
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• 194[01:30:23] <a417> thats a 7 y/o drive, i'd be leery about anything other than target practice on it
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• 196[01:31:01] <edumass> warranty expired on 2014
• 197[01:31:08] <a417> and?
• 198[01:31:12] <a417> 7 yrs?
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• 200[01:31:31] <a417> id say you got your moneys worth out of it
• 201[01:31:33] <joepublic> and if the warranty expired you probably can't get a replacement on the basis of remapped sectors.
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• 204[01:33:25] <a417> something that old i'd literally only trust it (if it HAD to be spinning) to hold something that I had absolutely no vested interest in keeping....something starting with "/tmp..."
• 205[01:33:50] <joepublic> wow, you've really thought about this
• 206[01:33:54] <xparanoik> lol, yeah i can probably find one in one of my desk drawers
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• 208[01:37:07] <edumass> I want to use to test emqtt in home server, I have another 160gb, I hope 160gb will be enough
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• 211[01:39:55] <xparanoik> you should be fine on 160gb
• 212[01:40:17] <a417> +1
• 213[01:41:32] <edumass> :)
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• 218[01:42:51] <a417> you could always give 'badblocks' a go if you want, ymmv
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• 220[01:43:40] <xparanoik> i'd use it for a "sandbox" server so you can just play around with anything and not worry about data loss since it's just a test environment
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• 226[01:46:55] <a417> xparanoik: let me see if these gentoo compiling rumors are true....
• 227[01:47:09] <xparanoik> haha
• 228[01:47:21] <edumass> yes, just for test and learn, I'll backup config files if I make progress
• 229[01:47:23] <a417> flog that poor thing into the grave
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• 255[02:12:03] <`dw> hey. are there any good resources for maintaining private patches to source packages? i have a gnome-terminal patch i'd like to keep going forward
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• 259[02:14:09] <`dw> (i'm on ubuntu) it seems in this case i may want to maintain a clone of replaced-url
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• 266[02:20:11] <coruja> !ubuntu
• 267[02:20:11] <dpkg> Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian. Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu on chat.freenode.net instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian> and <ubuntuirc>.
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• 273[02:24:53] <RustyShackleford> so i've noticed that on restart, I can't login via ssh
• 274[02:25:16] <RustyShackleford> now if I plug in a keyboard to the machine and tap some keys, I can log in immediately afterwards
• 275[02:25:24] <RustyShackleford> so something is up, not enough entropy
• 276[02:25:37] <RustyShackleford> google searches led me to install haveged
• 277[02:26:05] <rwp> You think you are short on system entropy to start the encrypted connection? Could be.
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• 281[02:30:23] <`dw> coruja: this is a question about dpkg
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• 284[02:32:10] <`dw> coruja: FWIW this appears to be what i was looking for: replaced-url
• 285[02:32:16] <RustyShackleford> rwp: yeah thats what my google searches point to
• 286[02:32:23] <RustyShackleford> kind of an odd issue
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• 289[02:32:53] <RustyShackleford> but like the person said, if the issue is resolved immediately after typing some random keys its lack of entropy
• 290[02:33:17] <RustyShackleford> haveged improves the issue but it still takes some time to be able to log in
• 291[02:33:23] <Wally> Sure there's no error message that's waiting for you to "press any key"
• 292[02:33:44] <RustyShackleford> yup, pretty sure
• 293[02:33:58] <Wally> what are your system logs like at the timestamp of the event? :)
• 294[02:33:58] <RustyShackleford> of course I put the keyboard and monitor away, stashed this computer next to my router
• 295[02:34:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1466
• 296[02:34:08] <RustyShackleford> Wally: which log would you like to see?
• 297[02:34:13] *** Parts: `dw (~dmw@replaced-ip) ()
• 298[02:34:19] <whislock> RustyShackleford: Try installing haveged and see if it alleviates the issue. If it does, you had an entropy issue.
• 299[02:34:19] *** Quits: Labu (~Labu@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
• 300[02:34:28] <RustyShackleford> whislock: improves the issue
• 301[02:34:34] *** Quits: sami_ (~sami@replaced-ip) (Quit: going to bed)
• 302[02:34:36] <whislock> Then there we go.
• 303[02:34:39] <RustyShackleford> theres still some time when I can't log in
• 304[02:34:46] <RustyShackleford> so i'm not calling it resolved yet
• 305[02:35:04] <Wally> just any logs from the timestamp of startup to the time stamp of when you have the issue would work
• 306[02:35:29] <hotaronohanako> do anyone know if in the debian hurd port audio is working ?
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• 316[02:39:40] <rant> !hurd
• 317[02:39:40] <dpkg> GNU Hurd (<HIRD> of Unix-Replacing Daemons) is a POSIX-compatible collection of servers which run on the Mach microkernel. It is the GNU project's replacement for the Unix kernel. replaced-url
• 318[02:40:01] <hotaronohanako> pk
• 319[02:40:04] <hotaronohanako> ok *
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• 322[02:40:27] <karlpinc> hotaronohanako: Note, different IRC network.
• 323[02:40:31] <RustyShackleford> reading through the logs
• 324[02:40:35] <RustyShackleford> sshd starts right up
• 325[02:40:55] <RustyShackleford> not seeing any errors related to that
• 326[02:41:06] <hotaronohanako> karlpinc: yes I know that network too ! thnks for the specific channel in order to ask what I need
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• 329[02:42:16] <RustyShackleford> one random firmware error is the only iffy thing I'm finding
• 330[02:42:23] <karlpinc> RustyShackleford: You can increase the logging verbosity on the server side. (Or on the client side, but the client side may not help if the server is waiting for something.)
• 331[02:42:26] <RustyShackleford> would it help if I pastebinned a log file?
• 332[02:42:46] <karlpinc> RustyShackleford: Never hurts.
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• 334[02:43:13] <RustyShackleford> karlpinc: which would you want to see?
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• 336[02:43:46] <karlpinc> RustyShackleford: Well, the server sshd log would say the most about ssh logins.
• 337[02:44:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1460
• 338[02:44:26] <RustyShackleford> karlpinc: where's that one?
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• 341[02:45:05] <RustyShackleford> auth.log I guess?
• 342[02:45:50] <karlpinc> RustyShackleford: Push come to shove, instead of starting sshd put something in /usr/local that does an strace on sshd with strace -r for timestamps. Then you know exactly where the delay is. You'd have to not daemonize and redirect the output to a file for later viewing.
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• 347[02:46:25] <karlpinc> RustyShackleford: auth.log has at least some sshd logs (the sensitive parts, maybe everything.)
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• 350[02:46:50] <karlpinc> RustyShackleford: Er, I ment rc.local.
• 351[02:46:50] <RustyShackleford> karlpinc: it does respond with "connection refused"
• 352[02:47:05] <RustyShackleford> so that should be somewhere in a log
• 353[02:47:10] <RustyShackleford> maybe with a reason included
• 354[02:47:26] <karlpinc> RustyShackleford: Connection refused from the client means the server is not listening on the port.
• 355[02:47:36] <karlpinc> RustyShackleford: No, that's not right.
• 356[02:47:52] <RustyShackleford> ssh to 1.2.3.4
• 357[02:47:54] <SerajewelKS> (or iptables / some other firewall is blocking it)
• 358[02:48:15] <RustyShackleford> a server is not listening there either, but no connection refused
• 359[02:48:35] <SerajewelKS> if the connection times out, a firewall is probably dropping the connection request
• 360[02:48:47] <SerajewelKS> a firewall can also send back the ICMP port unreachable error, which is what causes "connection refused"
• 361[02:49:03] <SerajewelKS> so these errors alone don't pinpoint the problem, but they can lead you close to it
• 362[02:49:25] <RustyShackleford> SerajewelKS: I gave more details above
• 363[02:49:37] <RustyShackleford> but basically, when the system is freshly rebooted I cannot ssh in
• 364[02:49:38] *** Quits: monstar (~mitya@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
• 365[02:49:56] <RustyShackleford> If you connect a keyboard and type some random characters, you can immediately log in over ssh
• 366[02:50:00] <karlpinc> RustyShackleford: ssh -p 99 localhost you get connection refused because nothing is listening on port 99.
• 367[02:50:14] <SerajewelKS> RustyShackleford: that's really odd
• 368[02:50:25] <SerajewelKS> almost sounds like the machine is in sleep mode. but then you wouldn't get connection refused.
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• 370[02:50:53] <RustyShackleford> let me see if I can find the stackoverflow post
• 371[02:50:58] <karlpinc> RustyShackleford: I guess the daemon might not start listening until it gets enough entropy to build something it needs....
• 372[02:51:00] *** Quits: painted (~fainted@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 373[02:51:08] <SerajewelKS> RustyShackleford: you mean serverfault?
• 374[02:51:11] <RustyShackleford> but that poster's hunch is that there is not yet enough entropy
• 375[02:51:18] <RustyShackleford> SerajewelKS: one of those stack exchange sites
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• 377[02:51:36] <SerajewelKS> RustyShackleford: that sounds like it could be right
• 378[02:51:48] <RustyShackleford> is this a common issue? I have never heard of this before
• 379[02:52:00] <RustyShackleford> maybe a hardware specific thing?
• 380[02:52:00] <SerajewelKS> the keyboard input might provide enough entropy. if the machine has a mic installed, consider installing randomsound
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• 383[02:52:33] <RustyShackleford> haveged will generate enough entropy to let me log in significaly faster
• 384[02:52:41] <SerajewelKS> if the hardware is fairly nonstandard, the kernel may not trust some parts as an entropy source
• 385[02:52:47] <RustyShackleford> but it could still take a minute
• 386[02:53:02] <RustyShackleford> SerajewelKS: its a refurbed dell optiplex desktop. Should be pretty common hardware
• 387[02:53:25] <SerajewelKS> hmm yeah
• 388[02:53:34] <SerajewelKS> i would be wary of havaged. if you have a mic, randomsound is a better choice.
• 389[02:53:38] *** Quits: pvdp (~pvdp@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
• 390[02:53:43] <RustyShackleford> I feel like haveged shouldn't be necessary
• 391[02:53:46] *** Quits: painted (~fainted@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 392[02:53:59] <RustyShackleford> anyway I'm stumped guys. what do I do?
• 393[02:54:11] *** Joins: pvdp (~pvdp@replaced-ip)
• 394[02:54:12] <SerajewelKS> it does seem odd that ssh can't start without much entropy. i wonder if there is some other service that starts first and exhausts the entropy pool.
• 395[02:54:20] <SerajewelKS> the system might not be busy enough to generate entropy
• 396[02:54:21] *** Quits: beaver (~none@replaced-ip##) (Quit: ##replaced-url
• 397[02:54:52] <SerajewelKS> but i don't know why sshd would need entropy on startup unless it's having to regenerate its key each time
• 398[02:54:54] *** Joins: painted (~fainted@replaced-ip)
• 399[02:54:55] <whislock> haveged is trustworthy so long as a certain processor instruction is present and not poorly-emulated if you're in a VM.
• 400[02:55:29] <whislock> sshd requires available entropy for every single incoming connection.
• 401[02:55:33] <RustyShackleford> how does an amazon ec2 server not have entropy problems?
• 402[02:55:41] <RustyShackleford> but my bare metal hardware does
• 403[02:55:49] <SerajewelKS> hard to tell
• 404[02:56:02] <SerajewelKS> if there is no activity on your machine, there is no entropy source
• 405[02:56:07] <SerajewelKS> that's where things like randomsound are useful
• 406[02:56:09] <whislock> bare metal only generates entropy, generally speaking, from network activity and physical interaction.
• 407[02:56:30] <whislock> haveged generates entropy from timing variability in system processes.
• 408[02:56:31] <RustyShackleford> I have a plex image in docker that starts up and hits the network
• 409[02:56:39] <RustyShackleford> you would think that would generate some entropy
• 410[02:57:03] <RustyShackleford> whislock: do you typically need to install something like haveged on a server?
• 411[02:57:11] <whislock> Depends on the amount of entropy required.
• 412[02:57:27] <SerajewelKS> you can "cat /proc/sys/kernel/random/entropy_avail" to see if that's the problem
• 413[02:57:28] <RustyShackleford> I would say my requirements are low
• 414[02:57:48] <RustyShackleford> i've never run into this issue before
• 415[02:57:50] <whislock> RustyShackleford: I have encountered this issue in several instances.
• 416[02:58:03] <SerajewelKS> same here
• 417[02:58:07] <SerajewelKS> it's not that unusual
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• 419[02:58:54] <N3X15> Why was lighttpd masked?
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• 421[02:59:04] <SerajewelKS> i had the issue in a VM and i fixed it by turning on sound card forwarding and installing randomsound
• 422[02:59:06] <whislock> Personally, I do not consider randomsound to be a trustworthy entropy source/
• 423[02:59:11] <karlpinc> I've seen entropy problems on startup as well.
• 424[02:59:24] <SerajewelKS> i trust it more than havaged
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• 427[02:59:58] <RustyShackleford> since haveged seems to help, maybe I need to tweak the configuraton
• 428[03:00:07] <RustyShackleford> instead of investigating the cause
• 429[03:00:10] <karlpinc> I'd trust randomsound more with the mic blown on by the computer's fan. :)
• 430[03:00:26] <whislock> Let me rephrase: The HAVEGE algorithm is verifiably more trustworthy than randomsound.
• 431[03:00:46] <SerajewelKS> randomsound is actually more effective the worse your mic is, because bad sensors have fairly random reaction
• 432[03:00:52] <watchcat> tritium glowlights + cellphone + cheap plug-in geiger counter = entropy.
• 433[03:01:13] <whislock> watchcat: USB webcam and the element out of a smoke detector. ;)
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• 436[03:01:31] <RustyShackleford> whislock: do you use the stock config?
• 437[03:01:36] <whislock> RustyShackleford: Yes.
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• 439[03:01:47] <watchcat> americium requires a more expensive geiger counter.
• 440[03:01:56] <RustyShackleford> and it solves your entropy problems immediately?
• 441[03:01:57] <SerajewelKS> the really odd part (to me) is that sshd doesn't even bind to the port before it starts waiting on entropy
• 442[03:02:00] *** Quits: monstar_ (~mitya@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
• 443[03:02:01] <RustyShackleford> theres still like a 30 second delay
• 444[03:02:14] <karlpinc> SerajewelKS: Yes, seems odd.
• 445[03:02:16] <RustyShackleford> SerajewelKS: it seems like it listens on port 22 immediately
• 446[03:02:30] <SerajewelKS> RustyShackleford: oh then what's this "connection refused" stuff
• 447[03:02:37] <whislock> watchcat: Americum decay energizes the cells of an imaging sensor.
• 448[03:02:38] <karlpinc> SerajewelKS: Maybe sshd is sending the ICMP response?
• 449[03:03:03] <SerajewelKS> karlpinc: technically possible but i've never heard of that happening and i don't know of a reason why sshd would do that
• 450[03:03:04] <whislock> watchcat: Affix the element to the imaging sensor, collect frames, diff them, hash the difference.
• 451[03:03:17] <karlpinc> SerajewelKS: Yes. Sounds stupid.
• 452[03:03:24] <xparanoik> lava lamps
• 453[03:03:34] <SerajewelKS> you can even get decent random information with a crappy webcam in a pitch-black box
• 454[03:03:53] <SerajewelKS> it will still have random noise despite no light source
• 455[03:04:01] <xparanoik> replaced-url
• 456[03:04:03] *** Joins: sidmo (~ident@replaced-ip)
• 457[03:04:35] <RustyShackleford> I'm so confused
• 458[03:04:48] <RustyShackleford> do I settle for what I have now, 30 secs of delay?
• 459[03:04:58] <RustyShackleford> I feel like I can do better
• 460[03:05:05] <xparanoik> just type everything 30 seconds ahead
• 461[03:05:07] <xparanoik> jk
• 462[03:05:31] *** Quits: Ricardo__ (~rick@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
• 463[03:05:34] <SerajewelKS> side note: the NCIS episode about lava lamp randomness was pretty funny. there's usually a fair amount of nonsense technobabble in NCIS, but Torres shutting down a nuclear reactor by destroying all of the lava lamps with a chair was so dumb that it was hilarious.
• 464[03:05:37] <whislock> RustyShackleford: What's your sshd_config look like right now?
• 465[03:05:39] <karlpinc> RustyShackleford: You have ntp installed so your clocks are in sync client and server? That way you could compare timestamps and check that sshd is really coming up when you think it is. Just saying.
• 466[03:05:58] <RustyShackleford> server is running ntp
• 467[03:06:10] <RustyShackleford> my mac... might be? I'll make sure
• 468[03:06:18] <RustyShackleford> thats a good idea to verify
• 469[03:06:21] <xparanoik> SerajewelKS happen to know which season/episode? gotta show it to my coworkers, i work at a nuke plant
• 470[03:06:22] <RustyShackleford> whislock: stock
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• 472[03:07:32] <karlpinc> Humm. Isn't there some way to tell the box to stash entropy on shutdown so that it's available at boot?
• 473[03:07:41] <SerajewelKS> xparanoik: season 16 episode 1
• 474[03:07:46] <N3X15> To be fair, a real network security episode would be boring as hell.
• 475[03:07:52] *** Quits: sidmo_ (~ident@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
• 476[03:07:54] <xparanoik> nice thanks
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• 478[03:08:37] <SerajewelKS> the last episode we watched, the lab tech said something about a website installing a cookie that's a virus that sends GPS location blah blah and it's just like.... you're not even trying anymore, guys
• 479[03:08:46] *** Quits: Nekojimi (~jimj316@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 480[03:08:46] <RustyShackleford> N3X15: thats what bugged me about the facebook movie
• 481[03:09:03] <xparanoik> only show I know that has legitimate computer stuff is MrRobot
• 482[03:09:16] <RustyShackleford> wheres the part where he's banging his head against the wall wondering why his code doesn't work?
• 483[03:09:20] <RustyShackleford> and then it turns out to be a typo
• 484[03:09:28] <SerajewelKS> this is still the best TV technobabble i've seen though replaced-url
• 485[03:09:31] <SerajewelKS> it's so transparently terrible
• 486[03:09:44] *** Joins: beaver (~none@replaced-ip)
• 487[03:09:52] <N3X15> you forgot TWO PEOPLE AT THE KEYBOARD
• 488[03:10:05] <SerajewelKS> RustyShackleford: that's actually totally believable
• 489[03:10:05] <N3X15> FOR TWICE THE HACKING
• 490[03:10:10] <SerajewelKS> i've done that before
• 491[03:10:16] <SerajewelKS> N3X15: oh my god that NCIS episode was also great
• 492[03:10:23] <karlpinc> Er. #debian-offtopic
• 493[03:10:25] <SerajewelKS> "yes this makes sense" -writers
• 494[03:10:27] *** Joins: kingofmemes (~kingofmem@replaced-ip)
• 495[03:10:37] <xparanoik> right..
• 496[03:10:38] <karlpinc> A random apt search reveals entropybroker
• 497[03:10:53] *** Quits: debiantonio (~Antonio@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 498[03:10:57] <N3X15> Anyway, why was lighttpd masked?
• 499[03:11:29] <RustyShackleford> karlpinc: interesting
• 500[03:11:35] <RustyShackleford> I still wonder why haveged isn't sufficient
• 501[03:11:58] <RustyShackleford> that was the most common suggestion i've found through google
• 502[03:12:00] <karlpinc> RustyShackleford: It may be that Debian saves entropy between reboots automatically and your problem is due to not enough uptime.
• 503[03:13:40] <karlpinc> RustyShackleford: man systemd-random-seed
• 504[03:14:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1466
• 505[03:14:13] <SerajewelKS> also, do you need to reboot enough that this is actually a problem?
• 506[03:14:27] *** Joins: dx_ob_ (~OtakuSenp@replaced-ip)
• 507[03:14:46] <RustyShackleford> SerajewelKS: well no
• 508[03:14:47] <SerajewelKS> how much time are you spending on this for what may not even be a problem
• 509[03:15:18] <RustyShackleford> what if I'm using it remotely and doing "important shit"
• 510[03:15:21] <SerajewelKS> unless it's just because you're curious, which is of course fine
• 511[03:15:25] <RustyShackleford> and then I reboot and then can't log in
• 512[03:15:26] *** Quits: dx_ob (~OtakuSenp@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
• 513[03:15:54] <RustyShackleford> yeah thats part of it now. I'm stumped by a seemingly easy puzzle, I can't just let it go
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• 515[03:17:27] <SerajewelKS> it's probably just entropy, and haveged still can't generate enough
• 516[03:17:29] <RustyShackleford> karlpinc: so that service needs to be started earlier possibly?
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• 518[03:18:05] <RustyShackleford> since a hardware keyboard or haveged will fix the issue, I agree that its most likely entropy
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• 520[03:18:23] <karlpinc> RustyShackleford: Dunno. It came enabled on my box. You could try putting something into /etc/systemd/system/ that tells systemd to wait on starting sshd until after systemd-random-seed.
• 521[03:18:28] *** Quits: v01t (~v01t@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
• 522[03:19:00] <karlpinc> RustyShackleford: Although you'd think that wouldn't really be necessary, that sshd would use the entropy when it showed up.
• 523[03:19:19] <karlpinc> RustyShackleford: Maybe you just need more uptime to accumulate more entropy?
• 524[03:19:36] <whislock> I suspect that entropy isn't the only issue.
• 525[03:19:39] <RustyShackleford> how come none of my other computers had this issue?
• 526[03:19:42] <whislock> sshd requires entropy, yes, but not THAT much.
• 527[03:19:58] <RustyShackleford> whislock: i'm all ears buddy
• 528[03:20:03] <karlpinc> RustyShackleford: If it was 20 seconds I'd blame reverse dns.
• 529[03:20:04] <whislock> And haveged provides, comparatively, a huge quantity of entropy.
• 530[03:20:08] <whislock> ^
• 531[03:20:10] <altker128> Any of you guys using Samba4?
• 532[03:20:19] *** Quits: plasmoduck (~cjg@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
• 533[03:20:21] <RustyShackleford> sorry how does dns come into play here?
• 534[03:20:28] *** Quits: holden- (~holden-@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
• 535[03:20:35] <whislock> RustyShackleford: The server will try to resolve the hostname of the connecting IP.
• 536[03:20:46] <karlpinc> RustyShackleford: Dunno. On occassion something needs hostnames for logs, etc.
• 537[03:20:50] <whislock> This can cause delays.
• 538[03:21:12] <whislock> IP, PTR lookup to get RDNS, A/AAAA lookup of RDNS to confirm that it matches the original incoming IP.
• 539[03:21:18] <karlpinc> !tell altker128 about anyone
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• 541[03:21:28] <altker128> Yes, thanks for that.
• 542[03:22:07] <whislock> RustyShackleford: Explicitly set UseDNS to 'no', as well as GSSAPIAuthentication.
• 543[03:22:33] <altker128> I'm curious if you're using Samba4 as a file-server, do you just use it's built in user/ActiveDirectory componentry, or if you manage it along side an existing LDAP server
• 544[03:22:38] <whislock> Though the latter is an issue I typically only see on Red Hat-alikes.
• 545[03:22:47] <karlpinc> whislock: Does not the default config come that way? I have only vague memories.
• 546[03:23:13] <whislock> I don't recall what the defaults are at the moment, sadly.
• 547[03:23:32] *** Quits: pax (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Quit: pax)
• 548[03:23:43] <karlpinc> altker128: There's also #samba
• 549[03:23:44] <N3X15> Okay, seriously, what the hell is going on with lighttpd support? First libssl breaks it, so I have to start compiling it myself, and now it's masked and trying to upgrade PHP tries to force apache2 on me.
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• 551[03:24:02] <altker128> karlpinc: Yes, I know. I figure I'd ask a group of Debian users first since that's my host OS.
• 552[03:24:11] <karlpinc> N3X15: Php always forces apache. I don't know why.
• 553[03:24:24] <karlpinc> altker128: Good practice.
• 554[03:25:00] <SerajewelKS> RustyShackleford: i've had the rdns problem with ssh as well. there's a few sshd
• 555[03:25:07] <SerajewelKS> _config flags you can disable to turn that off
• 556[03:25:19] <SerajewelKS> it's really not useful unless you're using a specific type of authentication
• 557[03:25:29] <whislock> Specifically UseDNS.
• 558[03:25:47] <karlpinc> N3X15: lighttpd is in stable, why do you have to compile it?
• 559[03:25:52] <RustyShackleford> whislock: trying your suggestions now
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• 562[03:26:27] <RustyShackleford> do you have sshd_configs and other system configs that you share across machines?
• 563[03:26:42] <N3X15> karlpinc, libssl breaks lighttpd <= 1.4.49, has for a while now, and no upgrades from the maintainer.
• 564[03:26:52] <N3X15> and now it's also masked.
• 565[03:26:58] <RustyShackleford> I tend to skim the config file, read some docs, and say okay thats good enough
• 566[03:27:15] <RustyShackleford> is there an ultimate sshd config?
• 567[03:27:26] <karlpinc> N3X15: That sucks. Is there a complaint in the bug tracking system?
• 568[03:27:30] <N3X15> Yes.
• 569[03:27:35] <whislock> RustyShackleford: No. Any configuration is subject to the requirements of the administrator.
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• 571[03:28:22] <RustyShackleford> whislock: applying those settings don't seem to help
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• 576[03:29:48] <N3X15> karlpinc, replaced-url
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• 580[03:32:03] <karlpinc> ,v lighttpd
• 581[03:32:04] <judd> Package: lighttpd on amd64 -- wheezy: 1.4.31-4+deb7u4; wheezy-security: 1.4.31-4+deb7u5; jessie: 1.4.35-4+deb8u1; jessie-security: 1.4.35-4+deb8u1; stretch: 1.4.45-1; buster: 1.4.52-2; sid: 1.4.52-2
• 582[03:32:19] <karlpinc> ,checkbackports lighttpd
• 583[03:32:43] <N3X15> I rest my case.
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• 589[03:34:32] <RustyShackleford> kernel: [Firmware Bug]: TSC_DEADLINE disabled due to Errata; please update microcode to version: 0x22 (or later)
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• 592[03:36:30] <rwp> I always run php with ngin+fpm-php, no apache required. It "Depends: libapache2-mod-php7.0 | php7.0-fpm | php7.0-cgi" allowing non-apache solutions.
• 593[03:36:41] *** Joins: pvdp (~pvdp@replaced-ip)
• 594[03:36:45] <RustyShackleford> I wonder if that firmware could be causing my entropy trouble
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• 596[03:37:44] <N3X15> I'm running with fast-cgi
• 597[03:37:44] <karlpinc> rwp: Last I tried php-fpm required apache. I could be thinking of some thing else...
• 598[03:38:03] <rwp> That would be news to my running server. :-)
• 599[03:38:48] <karlpinc> rwp: It does not actually need it. Maybe it's a 'recommends' and always winds up getting installed or something. I definitely recall having to fuss with getting rid of apache.
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• 601[03:39:31] <N3X15> Thank god this happened on my testing server. I haven't been able to upgrade my production server because of it, though.
• 602[03:39:39] <rwp> I could fire up apt-cache dotty and look at all of the recursive depends but that seems excessive. (chuckle)
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• 606[03:40:37] <karlpinc> ,checkbackport lighttpd
• 607[03:40:37] *** Quits: Tom01 (~tom@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
• 608[03:40:38] <judd> Backporting package lighttpd in sid→stretch/amd64: all build-dependencies satisfied using stretch, stretch-backports.
• 609[03:40:55] <karlpinc> N3X15: Well, that's some good news at least.
• 610[03:41:17] <N3X15> Yeah, once they get around to it.
• 611[03:41:39] <karlpinc> N3X15: It makes self-backporting <ssb> easy.
• 612[03:41:42] <N3X15> And I'm already compiling it from source
• 613[03:41:42] <rwp> RustyShackleford, I am suspicious of the entropy problem. You can look with "cat /proc/sys/kernel/random/entropy_avail" and see if it is really low. Do a check at boot time and see what it is during the same time that sshd is starting.
• 614[03:42:18] <RustyShackleford> rwp: so I need to log in locally?
• 615[03:42:18] <N3X15> My point is that I shouldn't have to, if the package is in stable.
• 616[03:42:27] <karlpinc> N3X15: Good point.
• 617[03:42:47] *** Quits: MenschZwoNull_ (~MenschZwo@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
• 618[03:43:11] <rwp> RustyShackleford, You appear to have a keyboard attached and can tap at the keyboard. Right? Is this just a system at your house?
• 619[03:43:41] <karlpinc> N3X15: Thing is, the bug report was closed. Seems to me that that makes the problem "go away". So maybe it needs another bug report to get the problem fixed. It is a real problem.
• 620[03:44:02] <rwp> RustyShackleford, I would be inclined to put "cat /proc/sys/kernel/random/entropy_avail > /var/tmp/entropy_avail.boot" into /etc/rc.local and then reboot and check to see what the entropy is at boot time.
• 621[03:44:04] <N3X15> I'll log in and make a stink, then.
• 622[03:44:06] <RustyShackleford> rwp: yep. I configured it with a keyboard and mouse. Thought I was done, and now it sits next to my router without those things attached
• 623[03:44:38] <karlpinc> RustyShackleford: That's what you get for putting the case screws back in.
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• 626[03:45:15] <rwp> Putting the screws back always jinxes things.
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• 629[03:45:41] <RustyShackleford> well i'm running buster because on stretch it was mysteriously getting stuck after the bootloader
• 630[03:46:08] <monoxane> funny you should mention that RustyShackleford im literally having that exact problem now
• 631[03:46:13] <karlpinc> RustyShackleford: I recall. You could have tried a backported kernel. Probably too late now.
• 632[03:46:22] <RustyShackleford> I tried many combinations of drives and operating systems until I determined it was just the debian install
• 633[03:46:26] <monoxane> total system lockup after it starts to load
• 634[03:46:34] <RustyShackleford> this machine must be posessed
• 635[03:46:56] <karlpinc> monoxane: So try a newer kernel from backports.
• 636[03:47:15] <monoxane> karlpinc i think its a totally different issue involving graphics drivers
• 637[03:47:19] <karlpinc> monoxane: (Although RustyShackleford's problem was intermittent.)
• 638[03:47:41] <monoxane> intel GMA 3600 is cursed
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• 641[03:49:44] <RustyShackleford> computers hate me
• 642[03:49:55] <RustyShackleford> I suppose I will be dragging out the monitor and keyboard lol
• 643[03:50:20] <monoxane> the thing thats annoying me though is that the installer is fine, grub is fine, its fine while loading stuff, then shits itself shortly after
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• 645[03:50:37] <monoxane> and i cant find what its loading that causing the issue cos it cant write the logs when it locks up
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• 647[03:51:05] <RustyShackleford> read the text on the screen as quickly as posible
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• 650[03:51:32] <N3X15> And of course reportbug is broken, too.
• 651[03:51:34] <N3X15> FML.
• 652[03:51:56] * monoxane runs `sudo apt remove --purge x11-common`
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• 654[03:52:25] <N3X15> replaced-url
• 655[03:53:27] <monoxane> whats the absolute bare minimum graphics driver i can install that would let me use ttys and nothing else?
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• 657[03:54:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1457
• 658[03:54:38] <N3X15> I'll come back tomorrow and hopefully some maintainer will be on who will be receptive.
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• 662[03:56:52] <rwp> I just ran an experiment with my own suggestion myself above. The amount of entropy at boot? "85"! That is low.
• 663[03:57:09] <rwp> But yet I can log in with ssh immediately after boot. No delay that I can discern.
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• 673[04:03:01] <RustyShackleford> rwp: Jan 02 20:40:21 homer haveged[413]: haveged: tot tests(BA8): A:1/1 B:1/1 continuous tests(B): last entropy estimate 7.99575
• 674[04:03:01] <RustyShackleford> Jan 02 20:40:21 homer haveged[413]: haveged: fills: 0, generated: 0
• 675[04:04:05] <rwp> I am not sure what you are trying to tell me there.
• 676[04:04:38] <RustyShackleford> some output I saw in journalctl. notice last entropy estimate 7.99575
• 677[04:04:53] *** Joins: mavhc (~mavhc@replaced-ip)
• 678[04:04:53] <rwp> As far as haveged is concerned I looked at it myself, not an expert on encryption level entropy, but it looked acceptable to me. It is stirring more entropy into the pool.
• 679[04:05:38] <RustyShackleford> doesn't that value seem awful low at startup?
• 680[04:05:44] <RustyShackleford> if you think 85 is low
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• 682[04:06:31] <rwp> 85 was from /proc/sys/kernel/random/entropy_avail at boot. 7.99575 in that status line is something different. I do not think they are related.
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• 692[04:12:31] <RustyShackleford> heyo, this is looking very similar replaced-url
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• 696[04:14:25] <RustyShackleford> "So I'm reassigning this to systemd and openssh-server, I have no idea where the problem really - Kurt"
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• 701[04:15:57] <altker128> RustyShackleford: What exactly are you debugging if you don't mind me asking?
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• 713[04:26:12] <RustyShackleford> altker128: after rebooting this server, ssdh takes a long time before you can log in due to lack of entropy
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• 726[04:37:01] <chump> RustyShackleford: possible bios setting for server or headless mode?
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• 728[04:37:40] <RustyShackleford> chump: I don't recall that but worth a look maybe
• 729[04:37:49] <whislock> BIOS has nothing to do with entropy generation.
• 730[04:38:33] <chump> replaced-url
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• 732[04:38:57] <chump> reminded me of old mobos that needed a kb
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• 735[04:39:25] <chump> wasnt sure what hardware was involved
• 736[04:39:43] <whislock> Mere presence of a keyboard also does nothing for entropy generation.
• 737[04:40:06] <chump> but it boots his system faster iirc
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• 739[04:40:21] <chump> im simple af lmao
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• 746[04:42:42] <whislock> Boot speed isn't the issue, here. :P
• 747[04:43:15] <chump> the ssh daemon*
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• 749[04:43:52] <whislock> The ssh daemon doesn't care if a keyboard is attached.
• 750[04:44:02] <RustyShackleford> whislock: this email thread seems to suggest a random.trust_cpu boot option
• 751[04:44:05] <chump> then yep im completley wrong
• 752[04:44:11] <chump> haha my bad
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• 754[04:44:16] <RustyShackleford> the cpu is not trusted as a random source by default?
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• 756[04:44:33] <RustyShackleford> seems like a kernel related issue with buster
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• 758[04:44:56] <chump> i missed the part about having to hit random keys
• 759[04:45:05] <chump> oops
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• 761[04:45:16] <whislock> RustyShackleford: Huh. Good find.
• 762[04:45:22] <altker128> RustyShackleford: You sure it's the entropy and nothing something else like trying to resolve domain names, etc?
• 763[04:45:34] <RustyShackleford> replaced-url
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• 769[04:47:01] <RustyShackleford> should I buy some randomization hardware? that would be neato
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• 773[04:50:53] <themill> ,i haveged
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• 775[04:50:54] <judd> Package haveged (misc, extra) in stretch/amd64: Linux entropy source using the HAVEGE algorithm. Version: 1.9.1-5+deb9u1; Size: 32.6k; Installed: 76k; Homepage: replaced-url
• 776[04:51:43] <themill> has been recommended to prevent boot-time entropy starvation for Qt apps; might work for you too
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• 780[04:53:27] <rant> heh
• 781[04:53:46] <rant> I had long since observed that problem.. the fact something had to be coded to address it is amusing
• 782[04:54:15] <themill> haveged has been around for ages
• 783[04:54:32] <RustyShackleford> beautiful summary of the issue: replaced-url
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• 845[06:03:42] <wr> does debian still use dig?
• 846[06:06:13] <whislock> If by "use" you mean "a package is available," then yes.
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• 851[06:09:35] <wr> whislock, dont have dig here dont know why
• 852[06:10:01] <whislock> So install the package?
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• 854[06:10:09] <whislock> ,v dnsutils
• 855[06:10:10] <judd> Package: dnsutils on amd64 -- wheezy: 1:9.8.4.dfsg.P1-6+nmu2+deb7u10; wheezy-security: 1:9.8.4.dfsg.P1-6+nmu2+deb7u20; jessie-updates: 1:9.9.5.dfsg-9+deb8u14; jessie: 1:9.9.5.dfsg-9+deb8u15; jessie-security: 1:9.9.5.dfsg-9+deb8u15; stretch: 1:9.10.3.dfsg.P4-12.3+deb9u4; stretch-security: 1:9.10.3.dfsg.P4-12.3+deb9u4; stretch-backports: 1:9.11.4.P2+dfsg-3~bpo9+1; buster:
• 856[06:10:11] <judd> 1:9.11.5.P1+dfsg-1; sid: 1:9.11.5.P1+dfsg-1
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• 858[06:10:39] <wr> whislock, yes i seen than now
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• 929[07:09:12] <OS-DWS> test
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• 931[07:09:29] <OS-DWS> tets
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• 953[07:22:08] <OS-DWS> test
• 954[07:22:24] <Wally> no
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• 956[07:22:44] <OS-DWS> test
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• 959[07:22:55] <whislock> Stop it.
• 960[07:23:12] <OS-DWS> test
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• 963[07:23:25] <whislock> !ops OS-DWS spamming the channel.
• 964[07:23:25] <dpkg> Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, abrotman, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen, SynrG, jm_, somiaj, jelly, petn-randall: whislock complains about a problem (see above)
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• 966[07:26:15] <RustyShackleford> How would I set this kernel option: random.trust_cpu=yes
• 967[07:27:09] <diogenes_> RustyShackleford, in /etc/default/grub
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• 969[07:28:39] <diogenes_> you add it here: GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="random.trust_cpu=yes...."
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• 971[07:29:37] <diogenes_> after that sudo update-grub
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• 975[07:31:14] <RustyShackleford> thank you
• 976[07:31:29] <diogenes_> yw
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• 978[07:31:54] <RustyShackleford> currently reads GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet"
• 979[07:32:05] <RustyShackleford> is it comma separated? dont want to screw up the syntax
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• 982[07:32:51] <diogenes_> GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="random.trust_cpu=yes quiet*
• 983[07:33:03] <whislock> RustyShackleford: Space-delimited, to answer your question.
• 984[07:34:55] <ozzloy> is there a site where i can browse the contents of debian packages?
• 985[07:35:20] <ozzloy> not browse for which packages are available, but just see the packaging done for various packages
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• 987[07:35:43] <diogenes_> maybe github
• 988[07:35:51] <ozzloy> for example, the hello package. i could go find its .deb, download that, then use mc to open it up locally
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• 991[07:37:44] <ozzloy> it seems a bit backwards to have a debian/ folder inside the source code for something else. am i crazy, or should debian packages have packaging info, with a source directory inside?
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• 993[07:39:09] <ozzloy> not that i expect that to be changed, or that this hasn't been argued over a million times before...
• 994[07:40:21] <whislock> Many distributions apply patches to upstream sources for various reasons.
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• 1003[07:45:57] <Carnal> Hi! I'm having networking problems with a VPS I just setup, debian 9: replaced-url
• 1004[07:46:12] <Carnal> I done this a while ago :/ but forgot how, Getting those errors in the paste
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• 1012[07:50:32] <whislock> I will never understand providers that set up broken crap like that.
• 1013[07:50:50] <Carnal> heh?
• 1014[07:51:07] <whislock> Off-link gateways.
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• 1016[07:51:21] <Carnal> replaced-url
• 1017[07:51:30] <whislock> Hah! Called it.
• 1018[07:51:53] <whislock> As soon as I read your gist, I thought to myself, "This stinks of OVH."
• 1019[07:51:56] <Carnal> :D So any idea Why I am getting "RTNETLINK answers: File exists"
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• 1021[07:52:41] <whislock> Not a clue, unfortunately.
• 1022[07:53:01] * Carnal sighs and keeps googling around
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• 1024[07:53:45] <whislock> I sometimes see that happen if the network configuration was changed and the service was restarted. Have you tried a full reboot?
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• 1026[07:54:32] <Carnal> Tried a reboot just no
• 1027[07:54:36] <Carnal> now* no worky
• 1028[07:55:17] <whislock> That's all I've got. Sorry, network configurations like that are broken by design.
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• 1030[07:55:57] <Carnal> replaced-url
• 1031[07:56:08] <Carnal> I'm a noob at networking. Don't really know lol
• 1032[07:56:25] <ozzloy> whislock, "Many distributions apply patches..." was that directed to me?
• 1033[07:56:29] <whislock> ozzloy: Yes.
• 1034[07:56:32] <Carnal> wait..
• 1035[07:56:38] <Carnal> Where...is that 115 coming from?
• 1036[07:56:48] <whislock> That's the broadcast address calculated from the address and netmask.
• 1037[07:57:05] <Carnal> It's not >.>
• 1038[07:57:23] <Carnal> 192.95.12.115 is a whole different IP of mine
• 1039[07:57:34] <Carnal> the broadcast is supposed to be 192.95.12.112
• 1040[07:57:35] <whislock> Welcome to why "this is broken by design."
• 1041[07:57:46] <whislock> No, it isn't.
• 1042[07:57:53] <RustyShackleford> whislock: setting the kernel boot option seems to work pretty well
• 1043[07:58:02] <whislock> The broadcast address is the last IP in the range.
• 1044[07:58:22] <Carnal> " When configuring failover IPs on our network, the netmask should always be set to 255.255.255.255, the broadcast when needed should be the same as the IP (if the IP is 192.95.12.115 the broadcast for that IP is 192.95.12.115). For the gateway it should always be the main IP of the dedicated server when the last octet is replaced by 254."
• 1045[07:58:26] <whislock> RustyShackleford: Cool! I'll file that one away, since I've seen it before.
• 1046[07:58:31] <Carnal> A reply from one of my old tickets on OVH
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• 1048[07:58:45] <ozzloy> whislock, i might not understand what you're saying. it sounds like a non-sequitur though. i'm aware that distributions apply patches to upstream. i'm wondering why the directory structure for debianizing is with the upstream source code as a parent to the directory containing debian specific stuff, rather than the other way around.
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• 1050[07:59:14] <whislock> ozzloy: How is that strange? The patches exist cleanly within the build environment.
• 1051[07:59:22] <whislock> Carnal: That is so insane, it defies description.
• 1052[08:00:03] <Carnal> So I should contact OVH?
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• 1054[08:00:26] <whislock> My BEST advice would be to ditch OVH for a functional provider.
• 1055[08:00:26] <Carnal> Imma give that a go :/
• 1056[08:00:44] <RustyShackleford> whislock: like 8 hours of research to save a few mins every reboot lol
• 1057[08:00:55] <Carnal> :D I had OVH since 2015. They been great to me.
• 1058[08:01:10] <whislock> Carnal: That doesn't change how horrible their infrastructure is, tbqh.
• 1059[08:01:21] <Carnal> Yeah. I get it.
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• 1063[08:01:48] <whislock> So, my advice is unchanged. Find a new provider with sane architecture.
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• 1065[08:03:28] <ozzloy> whislock, still not sure how to interpret that. i'll have to put that aside for now though. thanks for trying!
• 1066[08:03:55] <whislock> ozzloy: I guess what I'm getting at is "what's the issue?"
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• 1088[08:23:31] <Carnal> Whiskey: -shrug- I deleted the container and used the network wizard on proxmox, instead of doing it manually,
• 1089[08:23:42] <Carnal> When the CT started up network was working :)
• 1090[08:24:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1441
• 1091[08:24:22] <Carnal> Called up OVH tech support, The guy said he just recommends doing it via the wizard instead of trying to confgure it manually.
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• 1095[08:27:54] <RustyShackleford> do you guys like docker?
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• 1097[08:28:30] <RustyShackleford> the appeal I see is reproducibility. When this hardware/software combo inevitably decides to fuck me over, I can set up again pretty quickly
• 1098[08:29:05] <RustyShackleford> but I wonder if it makes more sense to run a service like samba in docker or on the actual host
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• 1101[08:31:48] <Wally> Well docker just sandboxes it
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• 1106[08:33:28] <babilen> Sure, containerized workloads are pretty compelling. In particular if you use something like k8s/swarm/nomad/… to manage/schedule them
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• 1115[08:37:46] <RustyShackleford> but it might inefficient/overkill
• 1116[08:37:56] <RustyShackleford> i'm not sure how much of a tradeoff there is
• 1117[08:38:25] <darxmurf> good morning folks and happy new year
• 1118[08:38:36] <RustyShackleford> you're a couple days late bud
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• 1120[08:40:17] <darxmurf> I'm living on a different time line
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• 1156[09:09:40] <SanchoPensa> hey guys! I am having a very odd problem with locat/updatedb:
• 1157[09:09:40] <SanchoPensa> According to the man pages, the variabel LOCALPATHS=' ' should include all paths into the DB that aren't on /, bust for example on other disks oder network paths.
• 1158[09:09:40] <SanchoPensa> Unfortunately I do geht an errormessage, that the variable LOCALPATHS isnt being understood. Mind you: it is in the man pages. WTF?
• 1159[09:09:40] <SanchoPensa>
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• 1191[09:33:12] <at0m> SanchoPensa: nice find. meanwhile, for what it's worth, i use PRUNEFS="nfs smbfs" and PRUNEPATHS="/tmp /var/spool" (just to type some fs/paths)
• 1192[09:34:22] <SanchoPensa> at0m: yeah, I meanwhile realized, that /media was in the prune paths.
• 1193[09:34:22] <SanchoPensa> I just removed it, and it had the same effect, als adding LOCALPATHS. man pages ought to be brought up-to-date still...
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• 1196[09:34:54] <at0m> SanchoPensa: indeed. smells like a bugreport :)
• 1197[09:35:24] <SanchoPensa> at0m: oh gosh... does anybody remember my sourceforge login? :D
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• 1201[09:36:32] <at0m> SanchoPensa: or just use reportbug
• 1202[09:36:43] <at0m> apt show reportbug
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• 1204[09:36:57] <SanchoPensa> at0m: thanks, m8!
• 1205[09:37:03] <at0m> you're welcome
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• 1217[09:47:01] <SanchoPensa> at0m: bugreport done. :)
• 1218[09:47:09] <at0m> yay
• 1219[09:47:13] <SanchoPensa> :D
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• 1221[09:48:13] <at0m> wr: please post your questions here, or in another channel on the subject. if it's general linux, or bash, they do have ##linux and #bash
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• 1271[10:37:58] <fakefur> hi guys so the oftc website has been unavailable for over a week now so i cannot get access to the debian-next channel
• 1272[10:38:15] <fakefur> is there anyway i can verify my credentials elsewhere?
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• 1274[10:38:50] <PaddyF> fakefur: ask on OFTC on #oftc for a manual verification
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• 1276[10:39:16] <fakefur> ahhhhh they came back up!!
• 1277[10:39:19] <fakefur> thanks
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• 1279[10:39:33] <PaddyF> :)
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• 1313[11:00:16] <rant> if anyone a bit more savvy with cmake and building debian packages can help me, I am making no sense of why this backport failed, full output: replaced-url
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• 1318[11:01:18] <rant> usually a build failure is a bit more obvious to me
• 1319[11:01:31] <rant> I did of course build-dep the package first
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• 1322[11:02:31] <rant> ah wait.. I wonder if this is just because of the PhysFS thing that I'd brought up in #hedgewars months ago..
• 1323[11:02:56] <rant> I'd think if that were the problem it'd have died out right on the configure step
• 1324[11:03:17] <themill> line 122
• 1325[11:03:19] <rant> the bot had said it was clear for a backport when I did checkbackport
• 1326[11:03:21] <themill> it does
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• 1328[11:03:51] <rant> looks to me like it goes on running make and cc, etc
• 1329[11:03:54] <themill> poor judd only knows what is is in the build-depends and if the maintainer hasn't put in the versioned-build-dep, it doesn't find
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• 1331[11:04:20] <themill> nah, that's the dump of all the things cmake tried to do so you can (perhaps) more easily see what failed
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• 1334[11:04:48] <rant> I guess I gotta go back to bitching at the devs about libphysfs then.. unc0r seemed to agree that it was a rather silly dependency but it was one of the newer devs that chose to make use of that library
• 1335[11:04:52] <themill> ,v libphysfs1 --release stretch-backports
• 1336[11:04:54] <judd> Package: libphysfs1 on amd64 -- stretch-backports: 3.0.1-2~bpo9+1
• 1337[11:05:11] <rant> ah.. or I can just do that..
• 1338[11:05:43] <themill> also
• 1339[11:05:51] <themill> ,v hedgewars --release stretch-backports
• 1340[11:05:52] <judd> Package: hedgewars on amd64 -- stretch-backports: 0.9.24.1-dfsg-2~bpo9+1
• 1341[11:05:55] <rant> themill: you think this will hold up hedgewars getting into stretch-backports?
• 1342[11:06:18] <rant> yet well 0.9.25 was released and it fixes among other things a broken controller support
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• 1344[11:06:31] <rant> supposedly.. I plan to test that
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• 1366[11:13:34] <rant> I recall now the reason I didnt bother installing the libphysfs1 backport prior to the new HW release was that no one could tell me if it'd be backward compatible and I didnt want to break the current release just to test the new release candidate, but now thats moot so..
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• 1385[11:23:42] <lupulo> hi
• 1386[11:23:50] <kirk781> Hello, lupulo
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• 1454[12:21:36] <Thedarkb-T60> Right, I've gone from a Core Duo to a Core 2 Duo and I want to upgrade to 64 bit.
• 1455[12:21:43] <Thedarkb-T60> What's the most painless way
• 1456[12:22:08] <Thedarkb-T60> Can I install over my original installation and keep my files?
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• 1459[12:23:35] <SerajewelKS> theoretically you could enable multiarch, install 64-bit versions of all your packages, install a 64-bit kernel, and reboot
• 1460[12:23:39] <SerajewelKS> but i've not tried this myself
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• 1463[12:24:38] <Thedarkb-T60> I could, but that sounds sketchy.
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• 1472[12:26:28] <SerajewelKS> it's unlikely to actually cause problems, e.g. if it doesn't boot you can reboot back into your old x86 kernel
• 1473[12:26:31] <SerajewelKS> then uninstall everything
• 1474[12:27:09] <SerajewelKS> relevant: replaced-url
• 1475[12:28:07] <SerajewelKS> yeah, this is an explanation of how to do what i said
• 1476[12:28:17] <SerajewelKS> if you can take a backup first, do it
• 1477[12:28:28] <SerajewelKS> but this should work fairly well
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• 1480[12:30:19] <SwedeMike> Thedarkb-T60: there is no painless way to move to 64bit. I have a 32bit installation and I'm dreading having to re-do everything. You can try to just boot a 64bit kernel and keep running 32bit userland. What problem are you trying to solve by moving to 64bit?
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• 1484[12:30:50] <Thedarkb-T60> SwedeMike, I want to run Discord and modern Steam.
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• 1486[12:32:45] <SwedeMike> Thedarkb-T60: I tried do perform migration to 64bit userland 5-8 years ago, and it didn't work. So I'd recommend either the SerajewelKS suggested multiarch approach (install 64bit kernel and multiarch userland), or just re-install and move over the files you need.
• 1487[12:33:03] <Thedarkb-T60> Does the Debian installer preserve the home directory?
• 1488[12:33:05] <Thedarkb-T60> Ubuntu's does.
• 1489[12:33:40] <Thedarkb-T60> If I can just install over my old 32 bit install with my files left alone, it's all fine.
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• 1491[12:35:14] <PaddyF> when you use the graphical expert install, then you can influence directly which partition to use, which to keep, etc.
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• 1494[12:38:37] <SwedeMike> Thedarkb-T60: I'd backup everything before I did that, if I were you. I've had installer bugs hit me before. You might be able to get this working, but of course always keep backup.
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• 1500[12:41:41] <jelly> Thedarkb-T60, I would not bet on d-i preserving just /home if it's a directory, and not a separate mountpoint
• 1501[12:41:53] <jelly> (d-i = debian installer)
• 1502[12:42:38] <Thedarkb-T60> It is just a directory.
• 1503[12:43:01] <Thedarkb-T60> I can't understand the appeal of separate partitions on a single hard drive.
• 1504[12:43:05] <Thedarkb-T60> Unless you're dual booting.
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• 1506[12:43:34] <jelly> deleting "everything but one directory" from an existing filesystem is not a trivial task
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• 1508[12:44:24] <FinalX> mkfs.ext4 /... && mkdir -p /home/$USER # ;-)
• 1509[12:45:24] <jelly> precisely what they do not want
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• 1511[12:45:51] <jelly> (and you'd have to preserve passwd/shadow/group entries as well)
• 1512[12:46:27] <jelly> (and possibly /var/mail/$USER. And cron / at jobs. And cake)
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• 1516[12:52:21] <SwedeMike> Thedarkb-T60: the appeal is what we're discussing here, the installer could wipe / but keep /home
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• 1534[13:00:41] <jelly> they are aware of that since they brought it up in the first place :-)
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• 1537[13:03:25] <blackflow> the cake is a lie tho
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• 1657[14:16:19] <ExeciN> I'm getting E: The repository 'replaced-url
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• 1675[14:26:35] <themill> ExeciN: that doesn't look like a repository
• 1676[14:27:08] <themill> they seem to think that curl-sudo-bash is amusing.
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• 1680[14:30:47] <PaddyF> lord, i hate those html5 pages that use an entire page for 1 slogan
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• 1682[14:31:29] <PaddyF> so that packagecloud thing is a pendant to suse's open build service, right?
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• 1742[15:03:56] <tdjb> I have suspend issues on a HP x2 210 G2, it automatically wakes up after up to a minute. It may be related to the i915 driver, but I'm unable to find any hints on why it wakes up or what I could try.
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• 1768[15:18:04] <quantumman> Hello, does anyone know if there's a plugin or a way of identifying where a tab was opened up from?
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• 1773[15:20:10] <hwdyki> is there an equivalent package in debian for kodi-peripheral-joystick
• 1774[15:20:34] <cirdan> does anyone here have much experience with packages that have both systemd and init.d files? seems the zfs package is having issues when upgrading replaced-url
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• 1835[15:46:01] <Tenkawa> Anyone know what controls trim availability on device drivers? ie why one driver in 4.19 can trim a /dev/mmcblk0 card but go back to any kernel version prior and its not supported?
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• 1845[15:47:36] <Tenkawa> i assume its per driver and not wider however I need to narrow down who to talk to so I can see if this can be backported
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• 1849[15:49:38] <Tenkawa> wow what is it with a few people's connections today?
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• 1852[15:52:39] <cryptodan> Tenkawa: who developed the driver that is working?
• 1853[15:52:55] <Tenkawa> same person
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• 1860[15:53:23] <Tenkawa> its just upgraded versions between kernel v 4.9 and 4.19
• 1861[15:53:26] <cryptodan> then talk to them about it
• 1862[15:54:32] <Tenkawa> just wondered if that seemed odd to anyone else.. mind you the 4.19 behaviour is better
• 1863[15:55:00] <Tenkawa> (although i have graphics problems with that kernel)
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• 1865[15:55:53] <Tenkawa> oh the joys of so many devices and modules
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• 1867[15:56:37] <Tenkawa> It was much simpler when I was devoping them (mid 90's)
• 1868[15:56:51] <Tenkawa> er developibg
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• 1875[16:01:26] <Tenkawa> bbl
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• 1966[16:47:17] <Phrk_> hello what the cmd to launch dkms install for the current kernel ?
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• 1968[16:47:24] <petn-randall> Hi, I'm having a 5 second delay when calling websites for the first time in Firefox. I can actually see it in the developer console. However, all DNS lookups of any kind are "immediate" (< a few ms) on the console. I think it's doing some weird lookup and timing out.
• 1969[16:47:32] <petn-randall> Any hints how to further debug this?
• 1970[16:47:39] <Phrk_> (the latest kernel crash my system so i want to install module on old one)
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• 1973[16:48:39] <tdres> petn-randall: You could try whether it is also the case when you use 'curl' on a website to check whether it is FF or something else
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• 1976[16:49:22] <jhutchins_wk> Phrk_: You might look at the man page for dkms.
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• 1979[16:50:51] <petn-randall> tdres: Problem also is that it's not 100% reproducible. It happens on the first website request, and then seems to be "cached" for a while. Doing various curl calls on websites and didn't visit where all fast.
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• 1988[16:54:09] <tdres> petn-randall: So it only occurs when using FF?
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• 1990[16:54:53] <jelly> petn-randall, how are you testing dns lookups?
• 1991[16:55:11] <petn-randall> tdres: Yes. I didn't notice it with Chromium, which I only really use for debugging purposes.
• 1992[16:55:43] <tdres> Any plugins that might interfere? Maybe try to start with addons/extensions disabled.
• 1993[16:55:44] <nkuttler> petn-randall: start by using a clean profile?
• 1994[16:55:49] <petn-randall> Another observation: Restarting Firefox does not reset the delay. So I'm guessing towards some DNS lookup that times out or is not properly parsed.
• 1995[16:56:16] <petn-randall> Meaning, replaced-url
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• 1997[16:56:24] <jhutchins_wk> petn-randall: Try disabling ipv6
• 1998[16:56:44] <petn-randall> jelly: `host <name>`
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• 2002[16:57:48] <petn-randall> I have adblock, "disable webrtc", TreeStyle tab and a few others. "disable webrtc" might be related.
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• 2004[16:59:01] <thisisthebishop> How are you all doing today?
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• 2016[17:01:49] <jelly> hi there, thisisthebishop, how can we help you today! Do you have a Debian support question?
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• 2025[17:04:47] <jelly> petn-randall, "host" commands are suboptimal. If you're testing the local resolver, use "getent hosts ..." or "getent ahosts ...". If you're testing DNS, use dig (from dnsutils)
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• 2029[17:05:38] <jelly> you probably want to test the local resolver, but who knows what firefox actually does...
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• 2036[17:07:05] <tdres> But wouldn't use curl also use the local resolver?
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• 2040[17:08:31] <petn-randall> I probably should just wireshark a day's worth of 53/udp, and try to correlate when the issue happens.
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• 2053[17:13:52] <thisisthebishop> Hi jelly, I'm a bit new to IRC and Freenode in general -- could you give me a brief synopsis of this server? Thank you
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• 2056[17:14:16] <greycat> Ask #freenode.
• 2057[17:14:38] <thisisthebishop> Thanks
• 2058[17:15:30] <jelly> thisisthebishop, also, replaced-url
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• 2072[17:21:08] <earthnative> hey folks, anyone here skilled in preseed.cfg? I've got a preseed file, but I want it to just provide defaults and be interactive, but so far been unable to achieve that. any preseed gurus?
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• 2076[17:21:57] <earthnative> I'm injecting the preseed.cfg into initrd as per this: replaced-url
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• 2080[17:23:06] <earthnative> providing "preseed/interactive=true" on the commandline (--extra-args) and trying "d-i preseed/interactive boolean true" as the first entry in preseed.cfg - neither work
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• 2085[17:26:31] <cirdan> wtf is libreoffice being installed when I didn't install a deaktop env or print server... stupid installer crap
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• 2117[17:35:13] <galaxie> Do you of you see an issue with adding this to /etc/fstab? I don't want to brick anything: none /mnt/ramfs ramfs noauto,user,size=512M,mode=0770 0 0Do you of you see an issue with adding this to /etc/fstab? I don't want to brick anything: none /mnt/ramfs ramfs noauto,user,size=512M,mode=0770 0 0
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• 2120[17:35:39] <galaxie> Also, is mount -a or mount -fav or whatnot a good way to double-check to make sure things would work?
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• 2123[17:36:36] <galaxie> I copied the fstab file ro /root if that would help in case of errors.
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• 2127[17:38:19] <blackflow> galaxie: why ramfs and not tmpfs? also not sure you can put a size limit on ramfs
• 2128[17:38:39] <blackflow> meanwhile, if you're worried about boot blockages, add "nofail" option
• 2129[17:38:42] <FinalX> ramfs doesn't have a siz..that
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• 2131[17:39:08] <galaxie> I'm worried anything would go to disk, so not tmpfs.
• 2132[17:39:15] <FinalX> it'll continue to use memory until your system goes down, and you can't see the size it's taking up using df
• 2133[17:39:25] <FinalX> eh
• 2134[17:39:34] <FinalX> tmpfs is not disk-based, but ram-based
• 2135[17:39:38] <jorb> does the live cd have an "install debian" option built in? sanity check here, thought it did, but didn't see it right away
• 2136[17:39:44] <blackflow> disable swap if you're worried (any part of) RAM will be leaked to disk
• 2137[17:39:50] <jelly> FinalX, tmpfs is ram+swap based.
• 2138[17:39:54] <FinalX> yeah sure
• 2139[17:40:02] <FinalX> but that's with anything that asks for ram
• 2140[17:40:03] <galaxie> I think I never enabled swap but how do I check?
• 2141[17:40:05] <jelly> things in tmpfs could end up on disk.
• 2142[17:40:09] <FinalX> tmpfs can be limited in size, though
• 2143[17:40:18] <FinalX> free -h, swap will show 0
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• 2146[17:40:44] <FinalX> by default, you kind of always have a tmpfs already mounted in /dev/shm
• 2147[17:40:49] <galaxie> It shows 0B for everything, yes. So good, I could use /dev/shm then?
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• 2149[17:41:07] <FinalX> I do, at least. iirc it defaults to 50% of total RAM in size
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• 2151[17:41:09] <jelly> people don't tlel people to abuse devshm!
• 2152[17:41:11] <blackflow> galaxie: also swapon -s
• 2153[17:41:20] <FinalX> you can always create your own tmpfs mounts
• 2154[17:41:23] <jelly> ^
• 2155[17:41:28] <FinalX> .. and limit them in size
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• 2157[17:41:40] <forester> Hi. I have this patch: replaced-url
• 2158[17:41:49] <forester> How to save that patch to file? And with such name? And what command to use for patching?
• 2159[17:41:52] <blackflow> btw.... noauto .... so it won't be mounted on boot.
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• 2161[17:42:22] <galaxie> What's the advantage of using tmpfs over ramfs if swap is disabled?
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• 2164[17:43:04] <FinalX> it can be limited in size, for one, and shows normally with df etc.
• 2165[17:43:08] <blackflow> it's newer, imho better maintained code, shows space under df
• 2166[17:43:35] <galaxie> So why not use /dev/shm?
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• 2169[17:44:50] <FinalX> you don't limit that one in size yourself usually, so if you use that and you have a haywire process, it can eat up a ton of your ram and cause other problems
• 2170[17:45:15] <FinalX> had a runaway process eat up 20GB on there once and it then the OOM-killer was having a good time.
• 2171[17:45:32] <galaxie> But it's already configured for only 1.8G?
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• 2175[17:45:51] <FinalX> well, like I said, by default it's usually 50% of your RAM that's made available there
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• 2179[17:46:31] <FinalX> it's not a reservation in RAM, the RAM is free to use by other applications until you start tossing stuff in there. then caching is sacrificed to make room for whatever you put on there, first.
• 2180[17:46:46] <FinalX> so if you make your own 512MB one, it'll overlap and not consume both.
• 2181[17:46:47] <galaxie> What about the /tmp directory? What filesystem does it use?
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• 2183[17:47:08] <FinalX> root fs, by default
• 2184[17:47:15] <FinalX> (disk)
• 2185[17:47:55] <FinalX> processes nowadays store temp stuff like pid files and sockets and such in /run, which is also a tmpfs
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• 2188[17:48:24] <galaxie> So does this look good: tmpfs /mnt/ramdisk tmpfs nodev,nosuid,noexec,nodiratime,noauto,size=512M 0 0
• 2189[17:48:28] <FinalX> ramfs is quite rudimentary and basic, tmpfs is more elegant and manageable
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• 2191[17:48:37] <galaxie> Or would that require root to mount?
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• 2193[17:49:42] <FinalX> it does
• 2194[17:49:56] <galaxie> In which case this would work then: tmpfs /mnt/ramdisk tmpfs noauto,user,nodev,nosuid,noexec,nodiratime,size=512M 0 0
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• 2197[17:51:14] <FinalX> yes curious - what is your reason of doing this?
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• 2199[17:51:41] <galaxie> For anything that's relatively small and I don't want to survive.
• 2200[17:52:10] <galaxie> Do I need to put a none in front? What was that for again?
• 2201[17:52:17] <FinalX> ah ok; some people use these to put private key material and such on so they won't live on disk.. and in that case you really need to use ramfs or make 100% sure that tmpfs will not swap (or is on an encrypted partition, which it's usually not)
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• 2203[17:52:49] <galaxie> I thought I was using full-disk encryption?
• 2204[17:53:17] <galaxie> I don't want to count on it.
• 2205[17:53:31] <FinalX> I don't know, but it's not really relevant right now :)
• 2206[17:53:46] <FinalX> anyway, the "user" was what's needed to make regular users able to mount
• 2207[17:54:05] <FinalX> you can also add "mode=0770" so only root and the user that mounts it will be able to read/write
• 2208[17:54:09] <galaxie> So I'll go with: none /mnt/ramfs ramfs noauto,user,size=512M,mode=0770 0 0
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• 2210[17:54:21] <galaxie> Edit fstab, then check with mount -a, right?
• 2211[17:54:31] <FinalX> yeah or just: mount /mnt/ramfs
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• 2216[17:55:56] <galaxie> Says no such file or directory? mkdir -p /mnt/ramfs ?
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• 2219[17:56:19] <FinalX> yes
• 2220[17:56:46] <tharkun> Good $DAY I have this rather nice handcrafted bootable usb-stick that I use. It works like a charm but recently an other usb I usually use died on me. Really no big isue but I realize I need to make a backup of it since the crafting of it took me quite a while. How can I make a multipartion usb stick into a single nice iso image so it can be pushed into my backup workflow?
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• 2223[17:57:44] <FinalX> if you just need to make a full disk image of the entire thing, use dd
• 2224[17:58:03] <galaxie> Uh is /mnt/ramfs supposed to show up in df -h or something? Or was that your point earlier?
• 2225[17:58:04] <tharkun> Using the device as source?
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• 2228[17:58:29] <FinalX> galaxie: indeed, tmpfs does show up with df normally.. unlike ramfs
• 2229[17:58:35] <FinalX> tharkun: yes
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• 2232[17:59:00] <tharkun> FinalX: Thanks
• 2233[17:59:06] <FinalX> like dd if=/dev/disk/by-id/name_of_usb_drive of=full_disk.img bs=1M status=progress
• 2234[17:59:14] <galaxie> FinalX: But it shows up on mount, I see.
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• 2239[18:00:36] <tharkun> galaxie: from man df "df - report file system disk space usage" if it is mounted it is part of your file system :)
• 2240[18:01:15] <galaxie> thankun: We were discussing ramfs.
• 2241[18:01:40] <FinalX> ramfs will show up in mount, tmpfs will show up in mount and df
• 2242[18:02:00] <FinalX> but df can't report disk usage on a ramfs mount as it doesn't supply its size
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• 2244[18:02:16] <FinalX> though it can with tmpfs
• 2245[18:02:39] <tharkun> galaxie: It will show up, because you have it mounted. Regardless of the mount point and the type of device, unless you explilcitly tell df not to look into it.
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• 2249[18:04:42] <tharkun> If you set it up correctly it will defenetly report on it. ramfs are considered by the kernel IIRC as tmpfs. I happen to use one 100M thingy of those to perform some intensive I/O processes.
• 2250[18:05:06] * tharkun burned an hdd prior to that.
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• 2274[18:15:26] <jorb> so it looks like the installer from inside the live cd was removed in 9, whats a simple alternative? replaced-url
• 2275[18:15:37] <judd> Bug replaced-url
• 2276[18:15:38] <jorb> i need to do the install offline :-/
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• 2280[18:16:38] <jorb> i guess i can follow the manual to do a manual install, been a while since i've done that...
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• 2284[18:17:48] <jhutchins_wk> jorb: While installing from the live images has been possible, it's never been recommended. For an off-line install use the main 01 image.
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• 2287[18:18:33] <greycat> ... has occasionally been possible ...
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• 2297[18:22:46] <scitor> Hi. We have a stretch where we want to install a certain PHP7.1 from a 3rd party repository (sury). It kind of works by just adding this repo, but it pulls in libssl1.1 from 1.1.0(deb) to 1.1.1(sury) (which breaks some things).
• 2298[18:23:29] *** Joins: Brainium (~brainium@replaced-ip)
• 2299[18:23:44] <FinalX> and sury's packages break without the 1.1.1
• 2300[18:23:53] <FinalX> it's kind of upsetting, we're having the same problem
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• 2302[18:24:10] <scitor> oh boy. that I didnt even realize
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• 2304[18:24:44] <FinalX> then again, 1.1.1 should've been backported into stretch and cosmic tbh. it's an LTS replacement of 0.9, 1.0 and 1.1
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• 2307[18:25:33] <scitor> the thing is, we tried to pin down that ssl (-1) and didn't have probs so far. also we pinned down the whole origin sury (400) and it only installed what was requested, the question is, is this ok to do?
• 2308[18:26:17] <FinalX> we were thinking about doing the same here, but haven't yet; it should be fine to do so.. given that it's not gonna break the packages you're installing
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• 2310[18:26:49] <FinalX> people are asking a lot about 1.1.1, because of TLSv1.3
• 2311[18:26:59] <FinalX> it's probably why he included it now
• 2312[18:27:17] <scitor> but the best solution would be to make 1.1.1 work with .. exactly
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• 2317[18:32:18] <jorb> jhutchins_wk: im reading this now and it kind of says the opposite?? replaced-url
• 2318[18:32:40] <jorb> if this is the case i just need to do it custom?
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• 2325[18:36:28] <jelly> scitor, if sury's package have the same ABI but breaks things, file bug reports.
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• 2333[18:40:26] <scitor> well it seems more like this ssl isn't as backwards compatible as it claims to be, or at least how it was implemented but yah, we will. once we've found a good solution, its more poking in the dark for now
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• 2338[18:40:39] <dft> good day, after some reading of man pages and the interwebs. I'm not convinced that ipwatchd will detect "other" ip address conflicts other than those that conflict with IP's assigned to the host where ipwatchd is running. Can anyone confirm this?
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• 2348[18:44:30] <jhutchins_wk> !ig
• 2349[18:44:31] <dpkg> well, stretch installation guide is The Installation Guide for Debian 9 "Stretch" can be found at replaced-url
• 2350[18:44:40] <jhutchins_wk> jorb: ^
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• 2404[19:21:31] <Barabacha> should I update my debian 8 to 9?
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• 2406[19:21:56] <jhutchins_wk> Barabacha: Probably.
• 2407[19:21:58] <greycat> Make a backup first, and follow the release notes.
• 2408[19:22:09] <greycat> replaced-url
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• 2412[19:23:20] <Barabacha> I have a problem with poor graphics performance, earlier on this channel I was advised to update my system, since I use the old 3.16 kernel
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• 2435[19:32:22] <DammitJim> You guys recommended some good cloud backup solutions in the past
• 2436[19:32:26] <DammitJim> can you mention some other ones?
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• 2439[19:33:11] <hiya> DammitJim, you need to host it yourself?
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• 2442[19:33:19] <DammitJim> no, I want someone to host it
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• 2444[19:33:31] <DammitJim> I mean, I could host it as well, but I need this to be easy to manage
• 2445[19:33:31] <hiya> DammitJim, get hetzner's storage box
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• 2448[19:33:54] <DammitJim> what is that?
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• 2450[19:34:05] <hiya> cloud storage
• 2451[19:34:23] <hiya> DammitJim, PM me
• 2452[19:34:35] <DammitJim> does hetzner have an agent for backups?
• 2453[19:34:39] <hiya> replaced-url
• 2454[19:34:48] <DammitJim> I don't want rsync
• 2455[19:34:51] <hiya> You can use multiple protocols
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• 2458[19:35:17] <hiya> ok
• 2459[19:35:24] <hiya> DammitJim, it doesn't
• 2460[19:35:26] <DammitJim> I want a backup solution, not a piece of the backup solution
• 2461[19:36:15] <hiya> replaced-url
• 2462[19:36:38] <hiya> DammitJim, ^ use it with storage box and it should be fine
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• 2466[19:37:53] <choice> Hello! Is it possible to backup my text messages from my Android phone to my Debian laptop?
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• 2491[19:46:19] <d0rm0us3> There are three images on the download site: dvd1-3. But nothing says what each one 'is'
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• 2493[19:46:42] <greycat> They are just sets of packages, sorted roughly by popularity.
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• 2495[19:47:00] <d0rm0us3> So not diff DE's?
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• 2497[19:47:01] <greycat> Well, and the first one has the installer on it.
• 2498[19:47:17] <d0rm0us3> Do I need to fetch all three?
• 2499[19:47:27] <greycat> A desktop environment is a set of packages. The first DVD should have all of the packages for the most popular desktop environments.
• 2500[19:48:07] <greycat> You don't even need ONE. All you need is the installer and an Internet connection. But if you do choose to use one of the DVD images, you will potentially save some downloading time.
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• 2505[19:51:02] <tharkun> why do I get this message on some Debian machines? dmesg: read kernel buffer failed: Operation not permitted
• 2506[19:51:20] <annadane> because you need to be root to see dmesg
• 2507[19:51:27] <tharkun> Why?
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• 2509[19:52:00] <tharkun> annadane: That which you answered is I believe obvious.
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• 2514[19:52:27] <greycat> Are you asking "Why did they change it?" I don't know.
• 2515[19:52:49] <greycat> replaced-url
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• 2517[19:53:15] <tharkun> greycat: Damn, you are right. I wasa venting my frustration to a somewhat ingrained behaviour. thanks for pointing it out.
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• 2524[19:57:28] <tharkun> greycat: Thanks for the link it enlightened me on some aditional "messagaes" that where popping up.
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• 2526[19:58:05] <StucKman> I have a server with a wifi AP, configured as such: replaced-url
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• 2542[20:05:50] <karlpinc> greycat: How would downloading time be saved? If you download a dvd it is very likely you will download at least one package you do not install but if you download the netinstall and install from that you will only ever download packages that are actually installed.
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• 2550[20:09:25] <karlpinc> (I am coming into the thread late. You will save download time if you use the dvd to install on multiple machines.)
• 2551[20:10:44] <FinalX> not if you download speed is higher than the read speed from the dvd/usb device
• 2552[20:10:46] <greycat> The idea is that you reuse the DVD to do lots of installs. Or you buy the DVD. Or you create the DVD in a place where you have lots of bandwidth, then carry it to where the install target machine is, which does not have bandwidth.
• 2553[20:10:50] <FinalX> like in my case :P
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• 2555[20:11:09] <FinalX> but in the case greycat described, sure :)
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• 2559[20:12:21] <FinalX> if you install multiple machines on the same network, then a local apt mirror/cache can save a lot, too. and over local network it can also be faster than using a dvd.. :P kinda depends on your situation
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• 2562[20:13:11] <tharkun> Arriving even later to the discussion. When the volume demands it sometimes pxe is a real bandwidth and time saviour. YMMV
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• 2588[20:30:18] * karlpinc always feels techo-macho when pxe booting
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• 2618[20:42:18] <Barabacha> does "apt-get upgrade" update my kernel?
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• 2622[20:43:50] <whislock> If there is a newer kernel for your release and architecture.
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• 2678[21:06:55] <Thedarkb-X40> Hey, I'm installing Debian on an unclean drive and I need to delete a file in my /usr/ directory for the installation to proceed.
• 2679[21:07:01] <Thedarkb-X40> Where is it mounted?
• 2680[21:07:02] *** Joins: alphabeta_3 (~alphabeta@replaced-ip)
• 2681[21:07:22] <Thedarkb-X40> nvm found it
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• 2684[21:08:00] <jelly> that sounds unsafe...
• 2685[21:08:14] <Barabacha> how can I reconfigure xserver? I'm in text mode, I type in "sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg" system thinks for a moment then I'm back in shell
• 2686[21:08:18] *** Parts: upie2 (~upie2@replaced-ip) ()
• 2687[21:08:22] <uio> Hello, I just bought a new battery for a thinkpad X61, but am having some charging issues. I've had it plugged in for two hours and already upower -i /org/freedesktop/UPower/devices/battery_BAT0 is showing capacity: 76,7045%, while at the last boot 5 minutes ago it was around 85%. Would you have any advice regarding using a new battery? I thought it was as simple as putting it in, and using it. I just want to avoid damaging the battery.
• 2688[21:08:22] <uio> replaced-url
• 2689[21:08:36] <Thedarkb-X40> jelly, I'm actually going to erase everything bar the home directory
• 2690[21:08:46] <towo`> Barabacha, and what exact you want to configure?
• 2691[21:08:59] *** Joins: n9nes_ (~n9nes@replaced-ip)
• 2692[21:09:14] <Barabacha> towo`: change the graphic driver to radeon
• 2693[21:09:14] <uio> Now, it is saying that it is fully charged, but if I unplug it the computer will turn off....
• 2694[21:09:24] <uio> Could this be a firmware issue?
• 2695[21:09:27] <towo`> Barabacha, it will load automatic
• 2696[21:09:48] <towo`> Barabacha, and btw, what you have done, that radeon is not used anymore?
• 2697[21:10:10] <jelly> Thedarkb-X40, heheh, but what about /var/mail/USER :-)
• 2698[21:10:10] <Barabacha> towo`: I installed the non-free firmware but that didn't help
• 2699[21:10:16] *** Quits: conta (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
• 2700[21:10:20] * jelly hides
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• 2702[21:10:37] <Thedarkb-X40> Oh no, where will I read about all of the times I mistyped my su password
• 2703[21:10:40] <Barabacha> towo`: I don't know if radeon is used, it's supposed to support my graphics card but it runs very bad
• 2704[21:10:52] <uio> ibam seems to give the same info
• 2705[21:11:07] <towo`> Barabacha, radeon needs firmware-amd-graphics
• 2706[21:11:32] <towo`> Barabacha, ant ther should be no blacklisting for radeon anywhere in your system
• 2707[21:12:16] *** Quits: n9nes (~n9nes@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
• 2708[21:12:29] <towo`> Barabacha, then there should not exist any xorg.conf in /etc/X11 or any foo.conf in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/
• 2709[21:12:49] <Barabacha> towo`: yeah, there isn't
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• 2711[21:13:08] *** Joins: _Vi (~vi@replaced-ip)
• 2712[21:13:11] <towo`> Barabacha, and at least, if you hve played with fglrx, congratulations, you have fuccked your install
• 2713[21:13:40] <user1_fn> A kernel module for an USB DVB-S2 device I would like to use suffers from a fatal bug. Would it be possible to (try to) compile the kernel module from the source of a younger kernel version? To use a backports kernel is not an option.
• 2714[21:13:46] <diogenes_> omg fglrx works only on centos at the moment :) with 3.13 kernel
• 2715[21:13:57] *** Joins: soee_ (~soee@replaced-ip)
• 2716[21:14:01] <towo`> Barabacha, and if you want helb, provide relevant infos, like dmesg | grep -i radeon, and the contents of /var/log/Xorg.0.log
• 2717[21:14:09] *** Quits: soee (~soee@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
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• 2719[21:14:41] <uio> acpi gives : Battery 0: Full, 100%
• 2720[21:14:42] *** velix_inuse is now known as velix
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• 2722[21:15:25] *** Parts: bkircher (~bkircher@replaced-ip) ()
• 2723[21:15:55] <jhutchins_wk> Barabacha: To upgrade the kernel you need dist-upgrade or full-upgrade
• 2724[21:16:27] <user1_fn> Further information: Release stretch, architecture amd64, module usb-dvb-dw2102,
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• 2743[21:24:29] <uio> Despite all the commands showing a fully charged battery, upon unplugging the machine, the computer turn
• 2744[21:24:34] <uio> *turned off.
• 2745[21:24:45] <uio> Any ideas on the problem?
• 2746[21:24:58] <uio> Do I just have to leave the thing alone and let it charge?
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• 2750[21:26:40] <Barabacha> towo`: ix.io/1xrK - dmesg, ix.io/1xrL - Xorg.0.log
• 2751[21:27:15] <Barabacha> towo`: replaced-url
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• 2755[21:28:33] <towo`> both logs are showing a successfully start of the xserver
• 2756[21:28:47] *** Quits: itguys (~itguys___@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 2757[21:29:04] <towo`> but why tho hell you are using such an old system?
• 2758[21:29:16] *** Joins: itguys (~itguys___@replaced-ip)
• 2759[21:29:33] <towo`> install a recent debian, then we could see fourther
• 2760[21:29:40] <Barabacha> because I installed it long ago and didn't use it
• 2761[21:29:50] <Barabacha> can't I just update this one?
• 2762[21:30:03] <towo`> no
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• 2764[21:30:28] *** Quits: Slashman (~Slash@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2765[21:30:46] <towo`> Barabacha, or sure you could, if you have the skills
• 2766[21:31:00] <towo`> but that would make not many sense, if that system is never used
• 2767[21:31:04] <Barabacha> well I don't
• 2768[21:31:11] <towo`> installing new would be way easyer
• 2769[21:31:22] <Barabacha> I thought updates were supposed to be straightforward
• 2770[21:31:37] <Barabacha> am I supposed to install a new system every 6 months?
• 2771[21:31:42] <towo`> no
• 2772[21:32:01] *** Quits: tryte (~tryte@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 2773[21:32:02] <towo`> but debian you can only update from stable to nex stable
• 2774[21:32:13] <towo`> not from oldolsstable to stable
• 2775[21:32:47] <Barabacha> so each codename has stable, testing and unstable?
• 2776[21:32:51] <whislock> No.
• 2777[21:32:56] <Barabacha> I thought jessie was the stable one
• 2778[21:32:59] *** Joins: mavhc (~mavhc@replaced-ip)
• 2779[21:33:00] <whislock> Also, no.
• 2780[21:33:05] <Barabacha> :(
• 2781[21:33:21] *** Joins: bkircher (~bkircher@replaced-ip)
• 2782[21:33:22] <whislock> stretch is the current stable. buster is currently testing. jessie is oldstable.
• 2783[21:33:24] <towo`> Barabacha, jessie => stretch is possible
• 2784[21:33:30] <uio> Is there ever battery firmware?
• 2785[21:33:54] <towo`> Barabacha, but you have to full upgrade jessie 1st, before you can upgrade to stretch
• 2786[21:34:06] <Barabacha> towo`: I did upgrade jessie, I'm on 8.11
• 2787[21:34:20] <towo`> Barabacha, but stretch is debian 9
• 2788[21:34:35] <towo`> so you have to dist-upgrade to stretch
• 2789[21:34:46] <Barabacha> so it's possible?
• 2790[21:34:53] <towo`> sure
• 2791[21:35:17] <Barabacha> dist-upgrade updates my kernel ?
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• 2795[21:36:07] <towo`> yes
• 2796[21:36:15] <towo`> and even the whole system
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• 2799[21:36:50] <dvs> Barabacha, read the release notes for Stretch
• 2800[21:37:14] <Tenkawa> he should go back and read up on the handbook more
• 2801[21:37:18] <Tenkawa> in general
• 2802[21:37:24] *** Quits: discovered (~discovere@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2803[21:37:31] <Barabacha> dvs: I did, why? is something going to break?
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• 2807[21:39:56] <dvs> Barabacha, it has the proper instructions to upgrade from the last release.
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• 2811[21:41:31] <Barabacha> ahh yeah
• 2812[21:41:40] <Barabacha> a whole book of them
• 2813[21:41:49] *** Quits: bkircher (~bkircher@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 2814[21:42:08] <dvs> I think chapter 4 has the specific instructions.
• 2815[21:42:11] <uio> Any ideas about why the capacity is slow, despite the battery being so new?
• 2816[21:42:29] *** Joins: bkircher (~bkircher@replaced-ip)
• 2817[21:42:40] <uio> I installed tlp to try to get more information.
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• 2820[21:43:06] <dvs> uio, maybe the battery wasn't full charged before it was used?
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• 2823[21:43:24] <uio> dvs
• 2824[21:43:30] *** Joins: r3 (~arethree@replaced-ip)
• 2825[21:43:37] <uio> dvs: True. Could this affect it?
• 2826[21:43:48] <uio> dvs: I turned it on to test it.... bad idea?
• 2827[21:44:08] <dvs> uio, I'd fully charge it before I use it.
• 2828[21:44:23] <uio> dvs: Okay. Thanks for the advice.
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• 2835[21:48:29] <tharkun> I am having this dumb isue. The current IPS provider is changing from ipv4 to ipv6 but to some extend it is mixing stuff while connecting. What mitigation effmeassures can I take locally to avoid beeing disconneccted from the services I am using? Sorry for the lag but it seems to be a by product of this mess.
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• 2838[21:49:21] <jhutchins_wk> tharkun: Are they changing to ipv6 _only_?
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• 2841[21:49:57] <tharkun> It doesn't look like it. I watched logs of one server and at the same time I have ipv4 and ipv6 connections
• 2842[21:50:24] *** Quits: mavhc (~mavhc@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
• 2843[21:50:26] <jhutchins_wk> tharkun: Most systems will auto-configure to use both.
• 2844[21:50:39] <tharkun> ipv4 is from the router and ipv6 is from my machine.
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• 2847[21:52:54] <tharkun> For what I have seen, it seems that the ipv4 connection is around 9KB/s and ipv6 one is something near the 800KB/s if they don't stall.
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• 2850[21:56:58] <StucKman> reposting from earlier:
• 2851[21:57:04] <StucKman> I have a server with a wifi AP, configured as such: replaced-url
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• 2910[22:29:00] <bsund> lo guys, i upgraded my computer and it seems i don't cant get out to internet, ip addr says enp4s0, and ifup says enp4so don't exist but auto complete to enp3so, is there a reconfigure?
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• 2914[22:29:58] <bsund> dhclient enp4s0 worked fine
• 2915[22:30:38] *** Joins: mavhc (~mavhc@replaced-ip)
• 2916[22:31:37] <bsund> sorry for don't cant
• 2917[22:31:41] <whislock> You're typing o's in some places, and 0's in others.
• 2918[22:31:51] <altker128> bsund: Today the network scripts end up generating a different network name for a given interface. You can change that behavior by passing this to the kernel by editing GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX="net.ifnames=0" and running update-grub
• 2919[22:31:54] <bsund> nut the best enlish i now
• 2920[22:32:12] <altker128> That way your interfaces will be like eth0, eth1, etc.
• 2921[22:32:19] <whislock> altker128: That's not really the right fix for this.
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• 2923[22:32:51] <whislock> bsund: What's the content of your /etc/network/interfaces file, assuming that's how you're configuring your interfaces?
• 2924[22:33:22] <bsund> # The primary network interface
• 2925[22:33:22] <bsund> allow-hotplug enp3s0
• 2926[22:33:22] <bsund> iface enp3s0 inet dhcp
• 2927[22:33:34] <whislock> And 'ip addr' only shows enp4s0?
• 2928[22:33:41] <bsund> so that is the problem obviously
• 2929[22:33:54] <whislock> Change those two occurrences of enp3s0 to enp4s0 and try bringing up the interface.
• 2930[22:33:55] <bsund> whislock, yup
• 2931[22:34:09] <bsund> whislock, thanks
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• 2933[22:34:33] <bsund> however i thought it was debian linux and expected automagic so bit angry
• 2934[22:34:38] <bsund> :P
• 2935[22:35:05] <whislock> Yeah, don't ever expect automagic anything.
• 2936[22:36:10] <bsund> everything runs extremely good so..
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• 2938[22:37:16] <bsund> i expected automagix when no enp3s0 but one enp4s0
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• 2940[22:37:26] <bsund> that might create other problems though etc
• 2941[22:37:36] <bsund> just that everything worked out of the box
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• 2943[22:37:58] <whislock> Sure, but you are expected to be able to maintain your system. Release upgrade can cause changes that need to be manually resolved.
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• 2945[22:39:03] <bsund> whislock, i guess it is what altker128 said
• 2946[22:39:08] <dvs> hence read the release notes
• 2947[22:39:18] <bsund> leth eth0 be eth0
• 2948[22:39:24] <bsund> :P
• 2949[22:39:25] <whislock> bsund: Not really. His approach was to undo a change that had a very good reason to exist in the first place.
• 2950[22:39:44] <altker128> The change is there so if you add/remove network cards, your network configuration doesn't become invalid
• 2951[22:39:46] <bsund> whislock, yeah i know that i don't know
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• 2953[22:40:02] <altker128> (the existing behavior, not disabling that via grub)
• 2954[22:40:20] <bsund> but everything is automagic why no internet
• 2955[22:40:23] <Tenkawa> udev retains information for each card you add doesnt it?
• 2956[22:40:34] <whislock> bsund: Because things aren't "automagic" as you keep saying.
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• 2958[22:40:52] <bsund> whislock, lol modern linux is only about automagic
• 2959[22:40:54] <altker128> Tenkawa: Yes, but even if it detects a change, nothing prompts a network reconfigure, so the /etc/network/interfaces may not reflect any chagnes
• 2960[22:41:21] <whislock> bsund: No. It isn't. And the longer you continue to believe that it is, the longer you'll continue to be stymied by extremely simple problems.
• 2961[22:41:26] <altker128> So IMO, the problem is only partially solved by keeping track of network interfaces and giving them those unique names
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• 2964[22:42:10] <whislock> bsund: No matter how much the system tries to do for you, you need to be able to diagnose and resolve issues like this.
• 2965[22:42:59] <bsund> whislock, yeah so what command do i run to edit the the /etc/network/interfaces
• 2966[22:43:01] <uio> So I turned off the machine for a while and left it plugged in, but upon trying to turn it on, unplugged, it would start and then immiedaitly turn off.
• 2967[22:43:14] *** Quits: tagomago (~tagomago@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 2968[22:43:19] <uio> And now the capacity displays an even lower value.
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• 2971[22:43:34] <Tenkawa> uio: what kind of machine is it?
• 2972[22:43:37] <altker128> bsund: You are forced to use a text editor to edit the /etc/network/interfaces file
• 2973[22:43:51] <Tenkawa> I missed the hardware details
• 2974[22:44:00] <uio> Suddenly, after being plugged in for only 3 minutes or so, charged value jumped from 2 to 100 percent!
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• 2976[22:44:04] <bsund> altker128, pfft i rather reinstall than to learn nano
• 2977[22:44:06] <uio> Tenkawa: Thinkpad X61
• 2978[22:44:12] <Tenkawa> oh
• 2979[22:44:14] <uio> Tenkawa: New battery.
• 2980[22:44:28] <altker128> bsund: You can use whatever texteditor your want. Nano, vi, something graphical, doesn't matter
• 2981[22:44:33] <uio> Tenkawa: 'Tenkawa'
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• 2983[22:44:46] <uio> Tenkawa: from green Cell
• 2984[22:44:49] <bsund> i am troll and just happy my new upgrade works
• 2985[22:44:54] <Tenkawa> no.. Nadesico
• 2986[22:45:00] <bsund> love peace and misunderstandings
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• 2989[22:45:27] <jhutchins_wk> uio: Could be a bad charging circuit.
• 2990[22:45:28] <Tenkawa> Mobile Battle (Martian Succesor)
• 2991[22:45:39] <Tenkawa> Akito Tenkawa
• 2992[22:45:51] *** Quits: [V7] (~v7@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
• 2993[22:46:11] <jhutchins_wk> uio: What happens with the old battery?
• 2994[22:46:27] <bsund> still i think it should be some automagic in finding internet
• 2995[22:46:27] <Tenkawa> jhutchins_wk: it also sounds like the acpi bridge to the charging circuit could be goofed
• 2996[22:46:56] <uio> jhutchins It just doesn't charge.
• 2997[22:46:57] <jhutchins_wk> uio: It could be as simple as needing to calibrate the BIOS for the new battery.
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• 2999[22:47:10] <Tenkawa> like it doesnt recognize the capacity properly
• 3000[22:47:16] <Tenkawa> jhutchins_wk: exactly
• 3001[22:47:33] <bsund> or wait i retract that statement
• 3002[22:47:38] <bsund> also i'm drunk
• 3003[22:47:47] <uio> jhutchins_wk: But the seller told me that the old battery needed to be replaced, so I'm not surprised that the old one doesn't work.
• 3004[22:47:54] <jhutchins_wk> I'm not sure that's necessary these days.
• 3005[22:48:17] <Tenkawa> uio: how old is that model notebook?
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• 3007[22:48:27] <Tenkawa> I can't remember
• 3008[22:48:35] <jhutchins_wk> uio: Yeah, I've had laptops that needed to be plugged in. Kept one under the couch near the TV.
• 3009[22:48:41] <uio> Tenkawa: jhutchins_wk: Would you have any advice for resources for calibrating?
• 3010[22:48:43] <Tenkawa> is it fairly recent
• 3011[22:48:50] <uio> It's from 2008
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• 3013[22:48:58] <Tenkawa> 2008
• 3014[22:48:59] <Tenkawa> oh
• 3015[22:49:01] <Tenkawa> wow
• 3016[22:49:11] <uio> Damn good machine though.
• 3017[22:49:13] <Tenkawa> yeah that could need calibration
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• 3019[22:49:21] <uio> Except for this.... and the bad fan...
• 3020[22:49:25] <uio> anyway, battery first.
• 3021[22:49:30] <Tenkawa> ok
• 3022[22:49:33] <uio> How does one calibrate a battery.
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• 3024[22:49:44] * karlpinc loves old hardware becuase open source driver support has had time to mature
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• 3026[22:50:06] <jhutchins_wk> Looks like the X61 is a 2007 model.
• 3027[22:50:14] <Tenkawa> run it complety of power until you cant power it on anymore
• 3028[22:50:21] <uio> To me the beauty of linux is that it can ressurect old machines.
• 3029[22:50:28] <jhutchins_wk> uio: You could contact the people you got the battery from and ask them what might be wrong.
• 3030[22:50:33] <Tenkawa> then charge it up all the way then some
• 3031[22:50:43] <uio> Tenkawa: But it won't charge
• 3032[22:50:55] <Tenkawa> uio: right now it wont
• 3033[22:51:06] <uio> Tenkawa: If I turn it off and leave it plugged it in it does'nt charge.
• 3034[22:51:16] <uio> And upon plugging in it shows 100 percent charged.
• 3035[22:51:17] <jhutchins_wk> uio: Lenovo web site, BIOS menus.
• 3036[22:51:29] *** Joins: GeHa (~GeHa@replaced-ip)
• 3037[22:51:40] <jhutchins_wk> uio: The internet.
• 3038[22:51:47] *** Joins: [V7] (~v7@replaced-ip)
• 3039[22:51:48] <uio> jhutchins_wk: Thanks
• 3040[22:51:49] <Tenkawa> you have verified your bios is up to date too right?
• 3041[22:51:59] <uio> Tenkawa: No...
• 3042[22:52:19] <Tenkawa> you should
• 3043[22:52:42] <uio> Which should I do first?
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• 3046[22:53:10] <Tenkawa> imho bios
• 3047[22:53:25] *** Joins: Cabanossi (~Cabanossi@replaced-ip)
• 3048[22:53:32] <Tenkawa> if an update exists
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• 3050[22:54:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1501
• 3051[22:54:21] <jhutchins_wk> Some batteries have power management components built in - that's often how the amount of charge is measured. Could be you got one that wasn't tested properly.
• 3052[22:54:44] <Tenkawa> indeed thats true too
• 3053[22:54:56] <Tenkawa> thats an older model
• 3054[22:55:12] <uio> The battery is right new though..
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• 3060[22:57:35] <jhutchins_wk> uio: Brand new electronic equipment is often likely to fail. Hence the concept of "burn in".
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• 3064[22:58:16] <jhutchins_wk> uio: I'm sure the cells are new, but they've probably just replaced the old cells in a used battery.
• 3065[22:58:48] <jhutchins_wk> l8r
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• 3069[23:00:02] <bsund> no wait i think if there is a cable plugged it deserves the internet
• 3070[23:00:23] *** Joins: Cabanossi (~Cabanossi@replaced-ip)
• 3071[23:01:13] <bsund> it is only people with jobs that complain about it making problems
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• 3078[23:06:17] <bsund> "i use gnu/linux/debian, when i get a new network card i reinstall my system, that is fine."
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• 3086[23:09:47] <greycat> Or, you could edit one text file, which would take you 30 seconds.
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• 3093[23:11:43] <bsund> greycat, how many text files do i need to edit to get bios/sound/video to run?
• 3094[23:11:54] <uio> So, there is no battery calibration option in the Bios..
• 3095[23:13:16] <uio> Are new batteries always this complicated. I just bought a new one and it won't work. Is this some Debian firmware issue?
• 3096[23:13:43] <aloo_shu> uio if you find any good frontends for managing batts, ping me. I have so far found out that the smart battery protocol & specification are relevant, and so is i2c, for which simple cli tools exist. I do have a suspicion that some of the power mgmnt kernel drivers are buggy, but that's a feeling rather
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• 3098[23:14:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1495
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• 3103[23:14:44] <Thedarkb-T60> Hey, whenever I start up my system, it mounts read only.
• 3104[23:14:49] <uio> aloo_shu: Any advice for proceeding?
• 3105[23:14:56] <Thedarkb-T60> I have to remount it as read write for it to finish booting
• 3106[23:15:55] <bsund> Thedarkb-T60, that is when the nsa and ze hackers take you, lewser!
• 3107[23:16:17] <Thedarkb-T60> Lol, debhelper , save me from the troll
• 3108[23:16:55] <EdePopede> Thedarkb-T60: fstab is correct? what das dmesg say? maybe a problem with the fs (fsck!) or even hardware? (hope that not)
• 3109[23:17:19] <Thedarkb-T60> Doubt strongly it's hardware considering it's started immediately after a dirty re-install
• 3110[23:17:39] <EdePopede> so at least it won't get expensive :)
• 3111[23:17:57] *** Quits: sorko999 (~sorko999@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving.)
• 3112[23:18:19] <EdePopede> no "ro" in the boot options?
• 3113[23:18:42] <Thedarkb-T60> I'll check, there shouldn't be.
• 3114[23:19:21] <Thedarkb-T60> Unconfigured fstab for base system...............
• 3115[23:19:22] <kyych> hello, is there any way to change behavior on suspend? I would not to break my internet connection during sleep
• 3116[23:19:24] <Thedarkb-T60> What should it be?
• 3117[23:20:02] <EdePopede> Thedarkb-T60: you mean the line for /?
• 3118[23:20:08] <Thedarkb-T60> Yeah
• 3119[23:20:20] <Thedarkb-T60> Can you check yours?
• 3120[23:20:54] <EdePopede> straight from the installer: UUID=${insert_the_partition_uuid_here} / ext4 errors=remount-ro 0 1
• 3121[23:21:21] <EdePopede> Thedarkb-T60: i was expecting the question, so i prepared something ;)
• 3122[23:21:30] <Thedarkb-T60> How do I find the UUID, I never normally use them.
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• 3125[23:21:43] <Thedarkb-T60> Can I not just use /dev/sda1?
• 3126[23:21:49] <uio> So no one knows how to replace a battery in Debian?
• 3127[23:22:02] <aloo_shu> there's smartbattery.org and sbs-forum.org, uio to read your way into the topic. and there is a plethora of batt driver sources in the kernel sources. there is one bit that decides whether the batt's built in chip or an external host take care of charge controlling, that'd be a first thing I'd risk playing with, but I'd reckon it'd be a long way of trial & error to learn managing batts. mfcturers can implement the sbs in so many ways, for instance, there
• 3128[23:22:03] <aloo_shu> …tion at all
• 3129[23:22:24] <EdePopede> Thedarkb-T60: /dev/disk/by-uuid (look for the link target)
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• 3133[23:23:01] <aloo_shu> it was different when 'smart' battery data was stored in the laptop's own nvram
• 3134[23:23:07] <EdePopede> Thedarkb-T60: there is no guarantee your disk will be sda, even if you only forget to remove your usb stick before boot
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• 3140[23:24:33] <uio> aloo_shu: Wow, batteries are complicated...
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• 3142[23:25:58] <aloo_shu> uio IMO in a bad-case-scenario, a poor assessment of battery health on behalf of an OS could lead to the battery 'loosing capacity', no matter if another OS or the BIOS were charging it
• 3143[23:26:28] <aloo_shu> I'd love to find comprehensive low level batt mgmt tools myself
• 3144[23:26:37] *** Joins: P1ersson (~P1ersson@replaced-ip)
• 3145[23:26:56] <EdePopede> Thedarkb-T60: i hated the idea at the beginning, you simply can't remember the uuids and they are not related to each other. but then i started to note them in fstab right after partitioning, sorted by disk and each gets its mountpoint, so i don't even have to care anymore about disk stuff in /dev
• 3146[23:27:21] <uio> aloo_shu: So, there is no, plug-n-play version for replacing batteries?
• 3147[23:28:05] <uio> aloo_shu: Have you used tlp, or ibam?
• 3148[23:28:15] *** Joins: kupi (uid212005@replaced-ip)
• 3149[23:28:15] <Thedarkb-X40> EdePopede, Yeah, I'm getting a far worse error message now.
• 3150[23:28:19] *** Quits: mavhc (~mavhc@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
• 3151[23:28:25] <Thedarkb-X40> UUID not found
• 3152[23:28:54] <EdePopede> i hope you used the actual uuid?
• 3153[23:28:59] <Thedarkb-X40> I did
• 3154[23:29:06] <EdePopede> does it show up in ls?
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• 3156[23:29:22] *** Quits: c|oneman (znc@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 3157[23:29:23] <Thedarkb-X40> I did ls -la and copied the UUID that pointed to /dev/sda1
• 3158[23:29:44] <EdePopede> do you have any other disk attached?
• 3159[23:29:47] *** Quits: Thedarkb-T60 (~Thedarkb-@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 3160[23:29:56] <Thedarkb-X40> Just a CDRW drive
• 3161[23:30:16] <EdePopede> is it sda or sdb now?
• 3162[23:30:53] <EdePopede> oh forget it, should be sr0
• 3163[23:31:05] *** Quits: tymczenko (~tymczenko@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 3164[23:31:15] <Thedarkb-X40> It's still sda1
• 3165[23:31:33] <Thedarkb-X40> I'm going to use /dev/sda1 in the fstab instead
• 3166[23:31:46] <Thedarkb-X40> I'm also considering re-installing
• 3167[23:32:06] <EdePopede> as long as you don't have any other sd* devices, it should work. only don't forget it
• 3168[23:32:23] *** Joins: pyn (~pyn@replaced-ip)
• 3169[23:32:26] <EdePopede> but that it doesn't find the device, hmm...
• 3170[23:32:34] *** Quits: gaulishcoin (~gaulishco@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 3171[23:32:34] <Thedarkb-X40> Shows up in lsblk
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• 3174[23:33:12] <aloo_shu> uio afaik, changing battery *should* be a 'plug-n-play' experience, the OS should identify each batt by SN , but that doesn't prevent batts with bad compatibility to original or manufacturing faults from circulating. if I've used ibam or tlp, then unknowingly so, I usually use the DEs power management frontend
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• 3177[23:35:00] <Thedarkb-X40> So, I'm in a situation now where I can't remount
• 3178[23:35:17] <Thedarkb-X40> I can't make a mountpoint to mount / then chroot
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• 3181[23:36:18] *** Quits: oojacoboo (~oojacoboo@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
• 3182[23:36:44] <EdePopede> are you running from that disk now?
• 3183[23:36:48] <Thedarkb-X40> Yes
• 3184[23:37:47] <Thedarkb-X40> Okay I unmounted /
• 3185[23:37:59] <Thedarkb-X40> Now I'm really screwed
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• 3187[23:38:38] *** Quits: pyn (~pyn@replaced-ip) (Excess Flood)
• 3188[23:38:41] <Thedarkb-X40> I've only got the basic block devices
• 3189[23:38:59] <Thedarkb-X40> sys/dev/block is gone
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• 3195[23:40:26] <Thedarkb-X40> I'm going to try rescue mode from the installer
• 3196[23:40:38] <EdePopede> ever ran from an external drive and then removed it? :D
• 3197[23:40:44] *** Quits: aaii (~aaii@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 3198[23:41:10] <EdePopede> or a live systemß
• 3199[23:41:10] <EdePopede> ?
• 3200[23:41:26] <Thedarkb-X40> Nope, when I run from an external drive I use a RAM disk
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• 3203[23:42:42] <EdePopede> i didn't have one, it was... an experience then.
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• 3205[23:43:12] <aloo_shu> uio also, the OS can use its own routines, or call the acpi routines in BIOS, in an acpi language. Dump & dissassemble tools exist, but like the kernel driver sources, that's beyond me still. A charging failure mode I've observed on several older laptops myself after switching to linux, is batteries being stuck at 40%-60%, giving tens of hours until full, despite good values for health and capacity %.
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• 3208[23:44:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1484
• 3209[23:45:34] <uio> aloo_shu: O dear. Well, I'm going to see if anything is different with Puppu Linux. I'll all too likely be back.
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• 3212[23:47:34] <Thedarkb-X40> Sudo keeps spitting out unable to resolve host
• 3213[23:47:41] <Thedarkb-X40> I probably screwed up the sudoers file a bit
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• 3220[23:52:41] <aloo_shu> puppy has a frontend a little more comprehensive, but afaik needs to lean on kernel all the same. No harm in trying,
• 3221[23:53:34] <EdePopede> Thedarkb-X40: visudo?
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