17[00:10:54] <dpkg> Some packages intended for Buster (Debian
10) but recompiled for use with "Stretch" (9.x) can be
found in the "stretch-backports" repository. See
replaced-url
18[00:11:02] <sloshy> i looked online and saw a lot of
different things and i don't know what is safest
19[00:11:07] <somiaj> sloshy: at this junction, I would suggest
just upgrading/installing buster
37[00:12:52] <sloshy> i prefer to just back up my files and do
a clean install
38[00:13:07] <somiaj> this is more like a oldstable->stable
upgrade (there are still a few things to iron out, but it is near
enough to the release things should be mostly ready)
40[00:13:20] <sloshy> i didnt realize buster was going to be
the new stable so soon
41[00:13:29] <somiaj> well if you are gonna backup, might as
well just try an upgrade. I did one a few days ago, took like
30mins, no problems, running buster
43[00:14:03] <somiaj> It has been frozen since feburary, so
there has been a good amount of time of testing the packages and
upgrade path
44[00:14:23] <somiaj> (note there are still a few issues left,
but it is mostly ready and you shouldn't experience to many
problems)
45[00:14:33] <dvs> 76 bugs left!
46[00:14:48] <somiaj> since you are wanting the full mesa
stack, I think this will be better, and just give you a head start
on running buster before the offical release in a week and half.
47[00:15:13] <somiaj> in 20,000+ packages, not bad
48[00:16:02] <dvs> only? ;-)
49[00:17:29] <dvs> Wasn't it just a little while back when
a release had just 1000 packages?
50[00:17:51] <dvs> according to the release notes?
104[00:37:43] <somiaj> sloshy: gnome just needs to practice
being more modular, so if they want to introduce something a bit
more core (to improve the desktop expereince) not push it on
non-gnome users.
105[00:38:04] <somiaj> I think there is room for gnome in the
linux world, they just need to also play nicely
106[00:38:08] <sloshy> well the gnome developers are total
douchebags
107[00:38:17] <sloshy> in their mind gnome is the only desktop
that matters
108[00:38:39] <sloshy> and everyone using DEs other than gnome
can go screw themselves
109[00:39:06] <sloshy> ive seen gnome devs on reddit acting like
total dicks, arguing with people who criticize any of their
decisions
110[00:39:18] <EdePopede> wasn't one of the fundamental
changes from 2 to 3 to take away a lot of choices from the user?
111[00:39:29] <sloshy> and basically saying "it's my
way or the highway"
112[00:39:43] <sloshy> yeah
113[00:39:48] <sloshy> they dont even like theming
114[00:39:51] <sloshy> because it "weakens the brand"
115[00:39:54] <sloshy> the brand
116[00:40:02] <sloshy> like theyre apple or something
117[00:40:09] <somiaj> we should of course try to be a little
more civil and try to keep on debian support here. (:
126[00:43:14] <EdePopede> could still become relevant for debian
if they decide that it isn't gnome anymore when it gets themed.
sounds familiar somehow...
135[00:48:52] <sloshy> is there any benefit to using a swap
partition over using a swap file on the root partition
136[00:49:42] <somiaj> I think hibernation works better, I think
it is also faster (since you don't have the overhead of writing
to a file inside a file systme)
138[00:50:27] <somiaj> the swap partition can never be
fragmented, while a swap file could, you can put the partition on a
part of the disk that is faster to read
139[00:51:00] <somiaj> hmm, seem (according to that link) since
linux 2.6, provided the swap file is not fragmented there isn't
a prerforamnce differnce.
199[01:08:41] <_Vi> Why during dist-update it sometimes asks me
whether to update a config file in regular text, but sometimes on
blue-background curses interface? Both variants can alternate during
the same upgrade.
239[01:38:53] *** SuperKaramba is now known as BenderRodriguez
240[01:40:05] <trackanddirt> I am using strech with keepalived,
I have it triggering scripts but although they show under service
status as executed, they are not, is this a known issue?
241[01:40:10] *** Quits: dvs (~hibbard@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
348[02:08:05] <donofrio> how do I tell....I was here yessterday
evening about the powerpc install that needed the archive_2019.key
applied but I didn't have the mirror setup, now I foudn the
.deb and I'm like almost there I thought
349[02:08:28] <themill> I have no idea what you are asking
472[02:57:18] <jmcnaught> teksimian: the new version of the
debian-installer for buster asks if you want to leave free space on
the volume group, but it's something you have to do manually in
the stretch installer
474[02:57:31] <teksimian> jmcnaught: and to rollback you use the
merge command, but as i understand it, it's essentially a live
rolling backup... so how does it know when in time to rollback to ?
476[02:58:10] <teksimian> jmcnaught: is buster testing or
unstable at this point?
477[02:59:20] <teksimian> wiki says testing :)
478[03:00:01] <jmcnaught> teksimian: buster is testing,
it's scheduled to be released on July 6th. To merge you do
"lvconvert --merge vg/lv" and it sets the origin logical
volume back to the state it was at the time of the snapshot
546[03:54:14] <donofrio> iulian_, I'm working on an
sid/buster netinstall that has no gpg on the mirrors so I cannot
update or something like that....I'm booted and sshed into the
client from my workstation
547[03:55:16] *** Quits: Tom01 (~tom@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
569[04:08:44] <donofrio> themill, I'll use whatever sources
you good folks say, can you paste.ubuntu.com over your sample of
what I should do cause last time I switched sources.list I was
unable to get back to working or general confusion
571[04:09:41] <themill> I have no idea what you need, I just
know that powerpc is not a supported architecture any more
572[04:10:08] <somiaj> I know that #debianppc on irc.oftc.net is
fairly dead, but that is still your best bet at getting someone with
experience with this.
573[04:10:09] <themill> The last supported powerpc release was
jessie fwiw
916[08:47:33] <mrtnt> If one is serving (mostly) static web
pages with Apache on Debian, then is there a still point to set up
caching? One would think that operating system caching is enough..
917[08:47:45] *** Quits: Kevlar_Noir (~manjaro-u@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1038[09:41:34] <CrazyTux> Habbie: but that package requires at
least 250 GBs of disk space.
1039[09:41:34] <Habbie> CrazyTux, ok - that's not really a
debian question, but if you can mention the packages, maybe somebody
will know anyway
1040[09:41:45] <finn0> themill: Isn't it good idea to
automatically subscribe users who has participated in discussion
like other bug tracking system (for ex. bugzilla, gitlab) etc?
1041[09:41:47] <CrazyTux> Habbie: SAP IDES.
1042[09:42:02] <Habbie> CrazyTux, those don't sound like
they demand working 3D or other 'hardware' stuff
1043[09:42:08] <Habbie> CrazyTux, so my guess would be that it
would work
1044[09:42:34] <CrazyTux> Habbie: it requires at least 250 GBs of
disk space.
1045[09:42:40] <Habbie> CrazyTux, so?
1046[09:42:53] <CrazyTux> Habbie: how can I allocate that much
disk space?
1047[09:42:58] <ayekat> assign it a 250+ GB virtual disk
1050[09:43:33] <CrazyTux> I tried dual booting windows with linux
distro. But, encountered some problems.
1051[09:43:53] <CrazyTux> I thought installing it in VBox would
be a better idea.
1052[09:44:06] <Habbie> what problems did you have?
1053[09:44:25] <CrazyTux> I also need to install and use MS
Office. Can I install it inside VBox?
1054[09:44:41] <CrazyTux> Habbie: one of the OSes not getting
detected.
1055[09:45:09] <Habbie> lots of people use ms office in vbox
1056[09:45:19] <ayekat> CrazyTux: given the nature of the
questions so far, though... sanity question: do you have enough
space to store a 250+ GB disk?
1057[09:45:39] <ayekat> because "how can I allocate that
much space" makes me think that you don't have the space
on your disk
1099[09:55:50] <CrazyTux> Habbie: would it be cumbersome to
install SAP IDES inside VBox? would it be as easy as installing it
on Windows that is installed on HDD?
1100[09:56:14] <Habbie> CrazyTux, it should be exactly as painful
as on windows without vbox, unless there is something special about
SAP IDES
1149[10:07:54] <uio> Hello, doing a Debian stable install on an
Asus eeepc with the encryption option provided in the installer. Now
I have rebooted the machine, it displays the unlock encryption
prompt, so I enter the password, it says it's fine, and then
shortly after, black screen. I should perhaps mention that during
the install, I got through the 'write random information'
just before the key selection, and then had to interupt install. So
I started
1150[10:07:54] <uio> installation again after, but all seemed to
go well using the non GUI installer. What is going on?
1181[10:17:45] *** Quits: CaptainN (zelda@replaced-ip) (Quit: I have to pee!)
1182[10:18:32] <Marbug> Good morning! I seem to have an issue
with python, and more specifically pip packages. I got multipel
packages that are throwing a stack trace after pip is mentioning
Cleaning up.. and the package doesn't seem to be installed.
That is with pip v9 from apt, whenever I upgrade pip through pip to
v19, it quite immediately throws a stack trace about so
1183[10:18:32] <Marbug> mething in main. pip2 isn't really
an issue, it install everything, although I need the pip3 packages,
and that is crashing constantly. Is there a way to reinstall all pip
and pip3 packages? Or even the system packages?
1184[10:18:51] <uio> Would adding nomodeset help me?
1187[10:19:06] *** jbond42|away is now known as jbond42
1188[10:19:27] <CrazyTux> Win 10 or Win 8.1 in VirtualBox?
1189[10:19:42] <blackflow> Marbug: just reinstall the virtualenv?
Hopefully you have a file with list of packages (and versions) you
can easily pip install -r with
1190[10:19:54] <blackflow> and first thing in the new virtualenv,
upgrade pip
1195[10:21:50] <patterson> VB is broken i windows 1903
1196[10:21:53] <patterson> Pro
1197[10:22:34] <patterson> Here,. Try a bare mwetal hypervisor
1198[10:22:36] <Marbug> blackflow it's not a virtualenv,
well it's an lxd container, but then going further, when I
wanted to delete it, it mentioned that the dataset was busy as I
used lxd from snap potencially, and there might be a bug :(
1199[10:22:57] <blackflow> Marbug: wait, you didn't install
packages as root did you? even if lxd
1202[10:23:15] <Marbug> I know the best option is to start from
scratch, I already have a temporary solution where I installed a new
lxd env with the requirements
1203[10:23:23] <Marbug> blackflow I did install the packages as
root :)
1204[10:23:52] <blackflow> Marbug: yeah no, you shouldn't do
that. Even if it's a container, root'd pip will clobber
system python packages. don't do that. use a virtualenv
1205[10:23:53] <Marbug> as I don't want to install it as the
user, I use the same user as on my host inside the lxd enviroments
1206[10:24:06] <blackflow> and also build a list of packages you
can use with -r for pip
1207[10:24:13] <Marbug> that I have :)
1208[10:24:30] <blackflow> you can run as root, but use a
virtualenv for pip installed stuff
1209[10:24:33] <Marbug> so virtualenv would be a solution, even
when using lxd ?
1210[10:24:50] <blackflow> yes because even an lxd has a base OS
system installation you can easily break
1211[10:25:15] <blackflow> containers are ONLY (and nothing more
than) namespaces. inside namespaces you need a bare minimum OS
userland (so, sans teh kernel and sans systemd)
1212[10:25:16] <uio> I tried following the advice
replaced-url
1220[10:26:25] <Marbug> well anyway, I'll try to get it
fixed using a virtualenv :)
1221[10:26:33] <blackflow> Marbug: wel thats okay. my point was
that you don't need an init (any init) inside a container, but
sure you can treat the container as a "VM" and have full
OS sans the kernel
1222[10:26:33] <Marbug> thanks for the feedback blackflow!
1223[10:26:45] <finn0> I found a torbrowser-launcher package
which is referred to by other package(s) but not package is not
available.
1224[10:27:21] <Marbug> yep that is what I want, as we install
multiple packages, and I wantto have the flexebility of a system and
not as a container like docker blackflow :)
1225[10:28:19] <blackflow> Marbug: that's fine. which still
means you should use pip only inside a virtualenv, as it _will_
break system python
1226[10:28:28] <blackflow> (otherwise will)
1227[10:29:37] <Marbug> okido, and I thought that containing it
within an lxd would be fine, well I already did it for more than a
year as I want to avoid virtualenv, up untill now when I got a brand
new laptop :)
1228[10:29:46] <blackflow> uio: did you remove "quite"
from the kernel cmdline in grub? do you have any output after
passphrase?
1229[10:30:17] <blackflow> Marbug: it is fine wrt the _host_ but
it is not fine wrt the OS inside the contianer. you just have
another OS in there with very same problems as the host.
1230[10:31:16] <blackflow> so, you won't clobber host's
filesystem, only guest's (if we can use the term
"guest" for a container)
1263[10:41:20] <uio> Is it a free / non-free thing!,
1264[10:41:23] <uio> *?
1265[10:41:39] <blackflow> uio: you will know when you try the
text mode and read the logs.
1266[10:41:46] <uio> okay!
1267[10:42:09] <blackflow> btw afaik lubuntu doesn't
pre-install proprietary drivers, so it's using the very same
kernel drivers, albeit different version and different ubuntu
patches
1268[10:42:45] <uio> This is tricky to enter the right chars with
a keyboard mismatch...
1365[11:39:01] <blackflow> mms_: sorry, I had to step out for a
moment. yeah, says no carrier for enp0s3, so that'd mean you
misconfigured it on the host side.
1373[11:41:49] <blackflow> mms_: that's virtualbox and/or
windows specific issue, not debian
1374[11:42:10] <mms_> I tried adding allow-hotplug enp0s3 and
then iface enp0s3 inet dhcp but not good
1375[11:42:21] <mms_> blackflow: ok
1376[11:43:22] <blackflow> mms_: otoh, see if virtualbox supports
"virtio" network driver, and use that instead.
that'll change the NIC name in the guest though. but use virtio
wherever possible.
1377[11:45:15] <tachikomas> mms_: are you sure your network is
bridged ?
1378[11:45:29] <tachikomas> if you want some easy stuff you can
always use Network Manager
1393[11:51:31] <blackflow> mms_: virtio is paravirtualized and if
the VB on windows supports it, then by all means use it.
1394[11:52:03] <blackflow> mms_: "need"? no, but virtio
is performing better and is supportd by the kernel better, than some
badly emulated intel nic
1395[11:52:58] <blackflow> mms_: this setting is on the host
side. "Adapter type" under Advanced, but I don't know
if there's virtio on windows, haven't used it in many
years.
1398[11:54:10] <mms_> blackflow: my laptop is work laptop and
have admin rights for limited time to do things but if I add things
that will conflict with their standard drivers it will be problem
1399[11:54:35] <blackflow> mms_: you don't have to add
anything on the host side, you only need to select virtio-net from
the drop down, if it's there.
1425[12:01:29] <blackflow> mms_: I'm gonna hazard a guess
and say yes, you need to plug in the virtual cable for the virtual
nic to work the virtual network. :)
1471[12:28:13] <uio> Hi, did a fresh Debian 9 install. After
entering disk key without the quiet setting I see lines of text fly
by like normal until it passes 'Welcome to Debian' and
some more lines. Then right when the screen text usually resizes to
smaller text on a working boot, the screen goes black. How can i
solve this?
1503[12:38:50] <blackflow> if that doesn't fix it, I have no
idea what could be wrong. the installer USB worked, right? perhaps
you can reboot into it, mount your installed filesystem and inspect
its logs.
1504[12:39:06] <blackflow> there should be a rescue mode in the
installer
1510[12:42:45] *** Quits: mayurvpatil (~mayurvpat@replaced-ip) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
1511[12:42:56] <finn0> I was installing some collection packages
using apt but later decided not install and press ctrl+c to kill
process when package downloading was a 50%. Now, I want remove all
downloaded packages. How can I delete all downloaded packages which
are not installed by apt?
1516[12:45:14] <blackflow> uio: more likely it's wtf linux
kernel.
1517[12:45:59] <humpled> that's the point where the
framebuffer is started right?
1518[12:46:00] <blackflow> uio: you are however trying a rather
old, 32-bit hardware. even though debian itself will continue
supporting i386 packages, the kernel is in rather bad shape with
32-bit support.
1519[12:46:02] <finn0> colo-work: I already tried it but nothing
happens (means no output to terminal)
1520[12:46:06] <uio> blackflow, I don't think so, because
there was no wtf Lubuntu, so I think this is Debian's issue.
1525[12:46:35] <jelly> blackflow: where did you get that about
bad 32bit support
1526[12:46:38] <uio> blackflow, I see your point, but if
it's offered, in my opinion it should work.
1527[12:46:56] <uio> Is it that X is not starting??
1528[12:47:06] <blackflow> jelly: from various mailing lists, GKH
himself spoke often about 32-bit in the kernel being like that, and
there no being mitigations for meltre
1530[12:47:48] <blackflow> uio: (l)ubuntu will frequently
blackscreen on boot after minor updates, though. it really is alla
bout the kernel, debian isn't doing anything special to it.
1531[12:48:02] <jelly> noone paid to get 32bit mitigations
1532[12:48:04] <blackflow> anyway, it would be awesome if you
could mount your installed root and inspect the logs, could be
something trivial to fix.
1533[12:48:20] <jelly> that's quite a different issue from
video-intel / i915fb bugs
1534[12:48:44] *** Quits: Kali_noob (~Kali_noob@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1535[12:48:45] <blackflow> jelly: it's not tested enough,
that's what the main problem is.
1536[12:48:49] <jelly> uio: which cpu is there?
1537[12:48:49] <colo-work> finn0, that is expected
1562[12:53:54] <uio> blackflow, It looked to me like rescue mode
was trying to do an install again, but I'll take another look.
1563[12:54:24] <jelly> blackflow: or even unlock it blindly after
framebuffer messes the console up
1564[12:54:39] *** Joins: muhammed (uid375807@replaced-ip)
1565[12:55:10] <jelly> N2600 seems to support 64bit. The question
is whether BIOS disables that intentionally
1566[12:55:16] <blackflow> jelly: that's already done, uio
said this happens after unlocking root, after systemd diagnostic
output and right about when it should modeset
1567[12:55:29] *** Quits: Soo_Slow (Soo_Slow@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1610[13:06:06] <blackflow> uio: it helps because you can mount
your installed root and a) inspect the logs, b) chroot and install
the firmware as jelly suggested
1611[13:06:14] <uio> Get this: hooking it up to an external
monitor gives the correct display!?
1622[13:11:26] <m1dnight_> Hey all. I wanted to install intellij,
and figured snap would be the easiest way, because otherwise you
have to move it to /opt/ manually and create symlinks all over the
place. But now that I installed it through snap, I still have to
manually execute /snap/intellij/152/bin/run.sh
1623[13:11:33] <m1dnight_> Did I do something wrong, or is this
normal behaviour?
1624[13:11:41] <blackflow> m1dnight_: pycharm?
1625[13:11:59] <m1dnight_> yeah pycharm/intellij both the same
concept applies really
1627[13:12:09] <m1dnight_> intellij idea in myh case to be
specific
1628[13:12:22] <blackflow> oh raw intellij. k, yeah, you need to
create a .desktop for it. on debian, snaps aren't as integrated
as they are on ubuntu, last time I checked.
1629[13:12:35] <blackflow> also consider putting /snap/bin in
your path
1631[13:12:55] <m1dnight_> Ah! That's something I can workw
ith. I was trying to google for an introductory article explaining
where snap puts its bin files and whatnot
1632[13:12:59] <m1dnight_> but this is good too. thanks!
1633[13:13:02] <blackflow> m1dnight_: actually, you iirc you
don't need to create the .desktop link, just copy it off from
/snap/... whereever it installed
1635[13:13:21] <blackflow> put it in ~/.local/share/applications/
1636[13:14:05] <jelly> uio: "lspci -nn" and
"lsmod" and dmesg and /var/log/Xorg.0.log will be useful
in determining that
1637[13:14:31] <blackflow> m1dnight_: I opted to unpacking to
/opt/ myself. I don't like how the snap autoupdates in the
middle of me working, and I don't like all the namespace/mount
pollution that snapd does.
1654[13:19:35] <blackflow> m1dnight_: not simpler but different
-- containerized application delivery platform
1655[13:19:43] <m1dnight_> Hrm, this is an interesting thing. I
was playing around with symlinking /snap/bin/intellij to
/usr/bin/intellij. /snap/bin/intellij works to start intellij. but
then /usr/bin/intellij just shows me this:
replaced-url
1658[13:20:33] <blackflow> m1dnight_: yeah don't symlink it.
/snap/bin are already symlinks to snap which then resolves the path
it was called from, to figure out which snap is called.
1659[13:20:54] <blackflow> bad design but eh... canonical,
cant' expect better.
1660[13:21:35] <uio> Okay, I don't get this, I'm trying
to install sudo (to install hexchat) and # su apt instal sudo gives
'Media change: please insert the disk labeled
'Debian....' shit
1661[13:22:49] <blackflow> uio: comment out the cdrom deb line in
/etc/apt/sources.list, re-run apt update
1745[13:50:10] <blackflow> uio1: okay, try rebooting with this in
kernel command line: video=VGA-1:d that should disable the external
monitor and likely force the use of built in screen
1746[13:50:47] *** Quits: encod3 (~encod3@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1747[13:51:01] <uio> blackflow, In theory though, should not
booting without an external monitor attached also force the use of
the laptop screen?
1777[14:02:10] <blackflow> uio: so anyway, there's a number
of options for you to try: xrandr, xorg.conf and kernel command
line. see different approaches by googling for "xorg disable
external vga output". the suggestions I gave above are a
summary of some of those approaches. not sure how else I can help
with it.
1779[14:03:11] <uio> blackflow, Okay thanks, but in my opinion
the issue is not disabling the VGA output, but rather actually
getting the laptop display to ... display.
1780[14:03:22] *** Quits: disposable2 (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1807[14:10:27] <uio> I dunno, I'm starting to think that
Debian is just too niche for people who can't / won't
spend weekends to get a useable machine.
1844[14:24:34] <blackflow> DammitJim: ifconfig/ip are
commands/tools for configuring the network. ifupdown is a whole
framework for persistent (across reboot) network configuration. I
think it's actually using ip in the background
1845[14:25:01] <blackflow> (and other things for routing, dns,
bonding, bridging, ...)
1859[14:28:48] <ayekat> also, wicd is a network management
framework (like NetworkManager, ifupdown, systemd-networkd), while
buster is a debian release name
1860[14:28:59] <blackflow> that too :)
1861[14:29:08] <DammitJim> I was just saying that I'm having
the issue in buster
1862[14:29:19] <DammitJim> (didn't have the issue with
stretch)
1952[14:52:22] <blackflow> DammitJim: I'm not very familiar
with wicd but that config doesn't look complete to me, ie.
there's no definition of the bond, so perhaps that's why
you have the issue you have. question is, why would you use wicd for
wired? just set up /etc/network/interfaces that you obviously
already have, that obviously works, and all is done.
1953[14:52:22] <ayekat> CrazyTux: what is your goal, actually? I
see you've been asking question about "which
DE/distro/setup is better" since at least january this year
1954[14:52:40] <Psi-Jack> ayekat: He's been doing this for
3~5 years now.
1964[14:53:39] <blackflow> DammitJim: you mean by
"wired_interface = bond0"?
1965[14:54:00] <DammitJim> but then when I come to the office
where there is wired and wireless, I'd like to use wired and
not wireless and since wicd doesn't get an IP for wired, it
puts me in the wireless network
1966[14:54:00] <blackflow> DammitJim: you can use wicd for
wireless, doesn't conflict with eth0 being managed by ifupdown
1967[14:54:20] <blackflow> or in your case bond0
1968[14:54:33] <DammitJim> blackflow, bond0 doesn't come up
unless I manually run ifdown bond0 && ifup bond0
1969[14:55:00] <DammitJim> btw, I appreciate the help... the wicd
channel is almost dead
1970[14:55:07] <blackflow> wicd is (almost) dead.
1971[14:55:10] <DammitJim> and I know this might not be an actual
debian issue
1984[14:58:53] <blackflow> DammitJim: then what's the bond
for? but what I was aiming at is that perhaps you'd have to be
more explicit on which one is master, in active-backup mode. see
examples here:
replaced-url
2008[15:07:16] <muAdmDev> my default gateway is bound to eth1, if
this gateway is not reachable, i'd like to switch to another
gateway on eth0. any recommendations, maybe using post-up/down?
interfaces currently configured as "auto eth0" and
"auto eth1", if allow-hotplug would be better
2039[15:26:22] <trackanddirt> I've read the docs and googled
the heck out of this but I am running into issues with keepalived in
strech. It will show that it calls on a script but it never executes
it. I can run the scripts manually so I know they work. Any Ideas? I
have tried changing permissions and still no go. any ideas?
2040[15:27:28] *** Quits: akem (~akem@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2087[16:01:00] <greycat> He clearly didn't come here to ask
for help. He came here to announce that he has given up. If he
actually wanted help, he would have provided enough *fundamental*
background information to even identify what the problem is.
2108[16:05:44] <trackanddirt> scroll up, I posted right before
uio. But I'll repeat since the answer is obviously no
2109[16:06:08] <greycat> Imagine you're not an IRC newbie.
What you do first is type "/lastlog thatperson" to see all
of the things thatperson has said.
2110[16:06:23] <greycat> I showed the result of /lastlog
trackanddirt
2115[16:07:33] <trackanddirt> I am using keepalived and although
service status is showing that it runs my scripts during state
changes, it does not seem to actually execute them. I know they work
since I can run them manually. And I am a newbie, so thanks for that
shortcut.
2121[16:10:48] <greycat> It only shows things I've actually
*received* since I got here. Not stuff that happened 7 hours before
I joined.
2122[16:11:28] <trackanddirt> greycat: either way I would
apprechiate any help.
2123[16:12:14] <greycat> I know zero about "LVS" which
is what the description for keepalived talks about, and I've
never heard of LVS or keepalived before.
2125[16:12:40] <greycat> That's why you don't pick a
random person in the channel and ask that one person for help. You
ask the whole channel instead.
2126[16:12:52] <iulian_> uio, in /etc/default/grub comment these
2 lines
replaced-url
2127[16:13:05] <uio> greycat, Oh, I see. You don't have the
info. Okay. I did put it on for users like jelly who were here, but
can add info again. That would indeed be useful. Okay - did a fresh
Debian 9 install on an Asus eeepc Flare series. After disk unlock
(LUKS) when the text resizes the screen goes black and is dead. But
the external monitor works pefectly.
2128[16:13:17] *** debsan_ is now known as debsan
2129[16:13:53] <trackanddirt> Fair enough
2130[16:14:09] <trackanddirt> If anyone could give me input that
would be nice
2138[16:16:42] <greycat> Also make sure you install from a
non-free-firmware installer. The fact that you had to add some
firmware package(s) manually means you didn't.
2139[16:17:03] <Tenkawa> wow this machine still surprises me at
how fast it is
2140[16:17:24] <greycat> With a laptop, you almost always need
some non-free firmware. With a laptop line that is *notorious* for
being a problem like the eee pc, I can't imagine even bothering
to try without it.
2141[16:17:55] <uio> iulian_, GRUB_GFXMODE=yours native
resolution is already commented. GRUB_GFXPAYLOAD_LINUX=keep
isn't even there.
2179[16:30:03] <somiaj> uio: do we know what hardware you have?
Have you tried busters install image?
2180[16:30:15] <greycat> dpkg, no, firmware images is
<reply>Unofficial <netinst> images containing non-free
Debian <firmware> packages are available from <replaced-url
2186[16:31:50] <greycat> If you can't even get stretch to
boot into the text console, I would try the buster NON-FREE rc2
installer (just came out yesterday), and if that doesn't work,
either give up, or give MUCH more details when asking for help.
2204[16:37:43] <greycat> I have no idea. I'm just giving
general advice that *I* would start with if I had to work on the
world most notoriously finicky and unpredictable laptop line.
2209[16:38:06] *** Quits: encod3 (~encod3@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2210[16:38:12] *** Quits: vutral (vutral@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2211[16:38:36] <greycat> If you actually want help, you start
with statements like "I'm using an eeepc model number ___
and here's where I've uploaded the lspci -nn output
____"
2245[16:49:55] <dpkg> If you have a question, just ask! For
example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian
version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I
expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if
anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all
volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get
an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org.
See <smart questions><errors>.
2264[16:55:49] <edgardoj> I am between django-cms and mezzanine
2265[16:56:51] <edgardoj> I just want to start out with a news
scraper and go from there, have some django/react boilerplates but
read somewhere they are not good for SEO
2266[16:56:55] <jeddi> django's pretty heavy duty - if you
know python then look at flask or pyramid first.
2281[17:00:45] <somiaj> edgardoj: nice thing about debian is it
is a frozen system, so if you develop a webapp on it, it should be
easy to deploy (and one should often develop webapps on the system
they plan to host them on). You may also want to consider how often
you need to update your webapp. Debian stable has about 3 years of
support (and up to 5 once you include LTS support).
2282[17:00:55] <jeddi> there are ready-to-use cms's out
there already, aren't there?
2309[17:10:25] <blackflow> I've been using busterino since
soft freeze
2310[17:10:33] <greycat> Logg: that's one possible answer
2311[17:11:35] <greycat> for me, it's simply the last nail
in su's coffin, and reason enough to drop it entirely and use
sudo for everything (sudo -s if you want a shell, sudo -i if you
want a login shell, sudo vi foo if you don't want a shell at
all)
2316[17:13:33] <Logg> yeah, I've been doing "sudo
-i" usually, but, in a new debian install with standard user,
you don't get your user in the sudoers file, so you have to
"su" at least once, unless you can toggle a box to put
yourself in /etc/sudoers now
2317[17:14:01] <Logg> good for systems without sudo
2342[17:24:11] <lolcat-007> what is the actual stable version of
debian
2343[17:24:12] <lolcat-007> ???
2344[17:24:26] <Logg> It's still stretch until July 6th-ish
2345[17:25:03] <lolcat-007> ok and what kernel version does
debian stretch use
2346[17:25:04] <lolcat-007> ??
2347[17:25:17] <Logg> 4.9, but you can get 4.19 from backports
2348[17:25:19] <jelly> lolcat-007: 4.9.x and there's 4.19.x
available if you need it
2349[17:25:36] <jelly> !enter
2350[17:25:36] <dpkg> The enter key is not a substitute for
punctuation. Hitting enter unnecessarily makes it difficult to
follow what you are saying. Consider using ',', '.
', ';', '...', '---', or
':' instead. If you hit enter too often, you will be
autokicked by debhelper for flooding the channel.
2353[17:26:13] <jelly> the question marks can be put at the end
of each question, they don't have to be on their own lines and
one is usually enough!
2354[17:26:25] <edgardoj> Problem with cli is that you need to
log everything if you want to know what are you doing. Nowadays is
ctrc+C ctrl+V on notepad for all of the website and cheat sheets.
2355[17:26:46] <Logg> pastebinit is a cool package edgardoj
2356[17:26:58] <lolcat-007> jelly: so after july 6th what will be
the latest stable version of debian
2367[17:27:49] <greycat> horribleprogram: because they are
different operating systems. Welcome to the diverse and often
confusing world of unix.
2368[17:27:55] <horribleprogram> greycat: yup
2369[17:28:12] <edgardoj> I am thinking about pastebinning my
processes like install debian > then install openbox > then
install x, y and z. I know there is plenty of 'perfect
desktops' out there but it's good to keep track of what
you do
2370[17:28:12] <horribleprogram> greycat: learning two sets of
syntaxes for top and ps for my macOS and Debian
2371[17:28:39] <jelly> horribleprogram: which version of
Debian/kFreeBSD do you have?
2372[17:28:39] <blackflow> horribleprogram: use only Debian so
you'll only have to learn one.
2373[17:28:56] <BCMM> horribleprogram: they are separate
implementations. many of the common `ps` options aren't
actually specified by POSIX
2374[17:28:58] <jelly> or did you mean Debian vs. a BSD
2376[17:29:28] <BCMM> i'm not sure of top is specified by
posix at all, so it might as well be considered an entirely separate
program that happens to have the same name and purpose
2377[17:29:35] <horribleprogram> jelly: Stretch, and I meant
Debian and BSD have different implementations of those two commands
2379[17:29:45] <lolcat-007> BCMM: ok i want to know if my dell
inspiron 5566 will have support on debian 10 i mean bluetooth
support and everything else
2380[17:29:46] <lolcat-007> ??
2381[17:29:49] *** Quits: edgardoj (~edgardoj@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2382[17:29:50] <jelly> horribleprogram: Linux ps inherits and can
mix incompatible syntax from both System V UNIX ps and BSD ps
2383[17:30:04] <horribleprogram> jelly: yup, very confusing
2384[17:30:06] <jelly> horribleprogram: I bet "ps aux"
works on both OSX and Debian
2385[17:30:09] <BCMM> lolcat-007: if it's working on
stretch, it'll work on buster, basically
2386[17:30:10] *** Quits: encod3 (~encod3@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2387[17:30:12] <horribleprogram> it does
2388[17:30:24] <BCMM> lolcat-007: what are you using at the
moment?
2390[17:31:04] <jelly> horribleprogram: many Linux tools are
bastardized reimplementations of their predecessors from old, dead
unices
2391[17:31:05] <BCMM> horribleprogram: most simple shell commands
have separate implementations on *bsd and debian (or any linux
distro, for that matter)
2396[17:31:32] <greycat> stretch to buster seems like it's
not going to be a disruptive upgrade for most people, other than the
changes to the su command
2397[17:31:33] <BCMM> bsd doesn't want those for licensing
reasons
2399[17:31:48] <horribleprogram> BCMM: well you can install them
2400[17:31:49] <BCMM> (and at the time they were first developed,
bsd wasn't as liberally licensed as it is now)
2401[17:32:07] <lolcat-007> BCMM: right now im using ubuntu 18.04
bionic because i tried debian stretch like a years ago and i didnt
have bluetooth support on my dell that is why i asking now
2402[17:32:12] <BCMM> horribleprogram: from ports, sure. but they
don't want them as a core part of the system, due to the
licensing.
2403[17:32:23] <horribleprogram> yup
2404[17:32:38] <BCMM> lolcat-007: if bluetooth worked in ubuntu
but not in debian, that's probably just because your bluetooth
adaptor requires proprietary firmware
2406[17:33:01] <BCMM> lolcat-007: and debian won't install
any proprietary software unless you explicitly tell it to, by
enabling non-free
2407[17:33:10] <BCMM> !non-free
2408[17:33:10] <dpkg> [non-free] a component which contains
software that does not comply with the <DFSG>. To add non-free
packages to your packages index, ask me about <non-free
sources>. To see which non-free packages are installed ask me
about <non-free list>.
2428[17:37:46] *** Quits: horribleprogram (~horriblep@replaced-ip) (Quit: Where I came from the Great Wild 'n shit, where you
can get shot if you crack smiles and shit...)
2430[17:37:51] <BCMM> lolcat-007: "firmware" is the
software that runs on the microcontroller inside your bluetooth
adaptor. it is distinct from the driver, which runs on your CPU and
communicates with the firmware
2431[17:38:19] <lolcat-007> BCMM: ok i get it so the proprietary
firmware are also free to use or i have to paid i belive gnu/linux
is free to use right???
2432[17:38:44] <uio> lolcat-007, Generally speaking, Debian is
not best for newer users. It might work, but it will likely take
much more time.
2433[17:38:59] <BCMM> lolcat-007: they are available
free-of-charge. you just don't necessarily have the right to
modify them, and there may be restrictions on how you are allowed to
copy them, etc.
2434[17:39:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1524
2435[17:39:03] <jelly> lolcat-007: yes it's free to use. It
just has different licensing.
2437[17:39:18] <BCMM> lolcat-007: the firmware comes in the form
of a file provided by the manufacturer, which has to be sent to the
bluetooth device every time it powers up. on windows, the firmware
would be bundled with the driver.
2438[17:40:45] <BCMM> lolcat-007: but the manufacturer
doesn't provide any details on how they actually made that
file, so if you ever wanted to modify it, you're out luck. it
isn't allowed to be part of the main debian archive because
debian developers and users aren't allowed to fix it if
it's broken.
2439[17:41:03] <uio> BCMM, Have you ever wanted to modify
firmware?
2440[17:41:10] *** Quits: factor (~factor@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2441[17:41:40] <BCMM> uio: not personally, no. but if there was a
security problem with a wireless chipset, for example, we would just
be stuck hoping that the manufacturer fixes it
2459[17:43:34] <BCMM> of course, the really frightening thing is
all the firmware that *isn't* visible, because it's stored
in a ROM inside your computer, not shipped as a binary blob with the
driver software...
2460[17:43:44] <lolcat-007> BCMM: ok now i understand so what i
have to do in order to make the bluetooth work on debian is remove
those bluetooth default driver and install the proprietary firmware
that is right???
2461[17:43:46] *** Quits: xcm (~xcm@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2462[17:43:53] <BCMM> like vulnerabilities in the actual USB
controller, for god's sake...
2464[17:44:01] <BCMM> lolcat-007: you don't need to remove
any driver
2465[17:44:17] <BCMM> lolcat-007: the *driver* is probably Free
software. you just need the firmware file.
2466[17:44:17] <uio> I'm kinda sad, but I must admit that
I'm in the process of installing Lubuntu on the eeePC. I just
couldn't afford to spend another day trying to get Debian to
work. Alas. I still have Debian on my Thinkpas X61.
2467[17:44:29] <jelly> lolcat-007: negative. You use default
driver, AND the non-free firmware.
2468[17:44:48] <BCMM> lolcat-007: (if you want to check this, you
can look at the output of `dmesg`. you will probably see the driver
load, complain that it can't find any firmware, and then exit.)
2470[17:44:53] <jelly> uio: that's just fine, use what
works.
2471[17:45:13] <uio> jelly, Yeah, I mean at least it's based
on Debian I guess.
2472[17:45:17] <blackflow> uio: and don't forget taht's
teh last lubuntu you'll be putting there. they've dropped
32bit installers.
2473[17:45:21] <BCMM> lolcat-007: just add non-free to your
sources, do `apt update`, do `apt install firmware-linux-nonfree`,
and reboot
2474[17:45:23] *** Quits: vutral (vutral@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2475[17:45:25] <jelly> cousin twice removed
2476[17:45:34] <uio> jelly, lol.
2477[17:45:48] <uio> blackflow, What!!!
2478[17:45:49] <lolcat-007> BCMM: ok like i said before i new in
linux so that will be kind of advance users but i will give it a try
and maybe you guys can help me with that right??
2479[17:45:54] <blackflow> so they can have sex? :) lubunu linux
debian edition
2480[17:46:01] <jelly> blackflow: N2600 has 64bit support
2481[17:46:09] <blackflow> oh cool then
2482[17:46:14] <BCMM> lolcat-007: well, i'm logging off now.
but i'm sure people here can help you enable non-free
2483[17:46:21] <greycat> !firmware images
2484[17:46:22] <dpkg> Unofficial <netinst> images
containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages are available
from <replaced-url
2485[17:46:27] <greycat> If you have a laptop, just install with
one of those.
2487[17:46:35] <jelly> no idea if the BIOS disables x86_64
support, tho
2488[17:46:52] <BCMM> lolcat-007: (they might help more willingly
if you can limit the number of question marks at the end of any
single question somewhat, though)
2489[17:47:03] <blackflow> worth checking out, because if it
doesn't, then lubuntu 18.04 is the last one supported.
2490[17:47:09] <friendofafriend> I'm running Buster, I see
no /etc/rc.local. I want a command to run once. I'd like to
avoid getting Poettering'd as much as I can. What should I do?
2491[17:47:19] <BCMM> greycat: do those images automatically add
non-free to the installed system's sources.list, by the way?
2492[17:47:20] <greycat> !rc.local
2493[17:47:20] <dpkg> /etc/rc.local may be used to run simple
commands at boot time. It exists by default in jessie or older; in
stretch you need to create it. Don't forget the <shebang>
and be sure to chmod 755 it. rc.local is considered a hack, a
stopgap, or a temporary band-aid; see <systemd>
2494[17:47:22] <jelly> blackflow: supported until 2023
2495[17:47:26] <uio> blackflow, For another two years.
2496[17:47:31] <blackflow> yeah
2497[17:47:34] <BCMM> greycat: or do they just provide firmware
for use during the actual installation?
2498[17:47:38] <friendofafriend> !thanks greycat
2499[17:47:38] <dpkg> sure thing, friendofafriend
2500[17:47:55] <greycat> BCMM: not sure. I don't laptop.
2509[17:49:09] <uio> greycat, Or, a conference, or a meeting or
some such? Classes?
2510[17:49:16] <somiaj> uio: sometimes seeing why something works
on another distro can help get debian to work, you could also do a
debootstrap install if it is just the installer causing problems.
2511[17:50:27] <uio> somiaj, The distro worked beautifully...
just the screen wouldn't work. Had to use an external monitor.
But that issue could'nt be solved without some other non free
testing other cd stuff. So I just decided that life is short and
downloaded Lubuntu.
2519[17:52:34] <jelly> iulian_: they spent two days on this
2520[17:53:15] <uio> lol, but maybe Lubuntu will have the same
issue...
2521[17:53:18] <iulian_> uio and after editing it don't
forget to run sudo update-grub
2522[17:53:25] <jelly> not saying we're already sick of
hearing about it but...
2523[17:53:37] <uio> jelly, lol
2524[17:53:52] <uio> jelly, What's the longest lasting
problem?
2525[17:54:03] <uio> Sorry, off-topic...
2526[17:54:32] <jelly> there are bugs in Debian's bug
tracking system opened more than a decade ago
2527[17:54:45] <uio> lol
2528[17:54:55] <uio> slow and steady.
2529[17:55:31] <lolcat-007> greycat: ok can yoou give me a little
help choosing the right image of debian 10 cause there are a lot of
directory there i choose firmware-buster-DI-alpha1-amd64-dvd-1.iso
that one is ok for me???
2530[17:55:44] <greycat> you want rc2
2531[17:55:56] <blackflow> probably means the problem is not big
enough for someone to shell out enough resources (of temporal or
financial persuasion) to fix it.
2532[17:56:01] <jelly> or latest weekly if rc2 is more than a
month old
2533[17:56:14] <lolcat-007> greycat: rc2?? what is that??
2534[17:56:28] <greycat> release candidate 2 of the buster
installer
2535[17:56:34] <greycat> it's on the first page
2536[17:56:39] <greycat> !firmware images
2537[17:56:40] <dpkg> Unofficial <netinst> images
containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages are available
from <replaced-url
2538[17:57:09] <greycat> subdirectory named
buster_di_rc2+nonfree/
2539[17:57:14] <friendofafriend> I think that's
replaced-url
2558[18:02:02] <jelly> huh, so apparently that dvd-1 has all of:
task-desktop_3.53_all.deb task-cinnamon-desktop_3.53_all.deb
task-gnome-desktop_3.53_all.deb task-kde-desktop_3.53_all.deb
task-lxde-desktop_3.53_all.deb task-lxqt-desktop_3.53_all.deb
task-mate-desktop_3.53_all.deb task-xfce-desktop_3.53_all.deb
2559[18:02:31] <lolcat-007> alright good, so i can start
downloading debian 10 buster and installing on my system right now
and i dont have to wait until july 6th??
2560[18:02:47] <greycat> Correct.
2561[18:03:03] <uio> buster will be stable soon?
2562[18:03:14] <jelly> lolcat-007: you do not have to wait, but
the system you install right now and the installer itself might have
more bugs than the final release
2579[18:07:04] *** Quits: noosanon (~noosanon@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2580[18:07:23] <uio> Does this mean I'll have to leave
stretch soon?
2581[18:07:42] <lolcat-007> ok
2582[18:07:44] <lolcat-007> thank guys
2583[18:08:08] <jelly> uio: a release keeps getting security
updates about a year after the next one is released
2584[18:08:17] <jelly> for* about a year
2585[18:09:18] <greycat> Stretch will receive full security
support for at least 1 year (sometimes more), but reduced support
which is called "LTS" for a longer period.
2610[18:16:23] <jelly> lolcat-007: everything from Debian 7
onwards has had some form of LTS support, but that is a separate
subproject of Debian and depends on donations
2612[18:17:01] <somiaj> lolcat-007: LTS is a team of volunteers
that get funding from various sources who want server side support
for longer than debian provides it.
2613[18:17:07] <jelly> if donations suddenty dry out _nothing_
gets LTS
2614[18:17:11] <jelly> !lts
2615[18:17:11] <dpkg> Debian Long Term Support (LTS) is a project
to extend the lifetime of all Debian stable releases to (at least) 5
years. Debian LTS is not handled by the Debian security team, but by
a separate group of volunteers and companies. Ask me about
<jessie-lts> and see
replaced-url
2616[18:17:15] <lolcat-007> ok but i can be sure i will have a
least two years of debian 10 support
2617[18:17:17] <lolcat-007> ??
2618[18:17:47] <jelly> lolcat-007: you can be sure, if you or
some other company keeps donating enough :-)
2619[18:18:07] <somiaj> and if you use debian for desktop use,
that is not included in LTS (and sometimes debian stops supporting
things during that year of old stable, for example jessie lost
support for firefox about 6-9 months after stretches release)
2620[18:18:34] <jelly> somiaj: LTS support is not strictly
limited to "server side"
2621[18:18:37] <somiaj> lolcat-007: debian will offically suport
stretch for about 3 years (as both stable and one year as oldstable)
2647[18:29:03] <pyfgcr> Primer: it will work in debian, sooner or
later, but not necessarily in debian 10 after the first release
2648[18:29:14] *** Quits: obs2 (58736e9d@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2649[18:29:32] <Primer> please. Use the correct terminology
2650[18:29:51] <Primer> It won't be 'available' in
Debian, but it'll surely work if you put it there
2651[18:30:03] <Primer> getting it there is another story
2652[18:30:19] *** subopt is now known as _subopt_in_repos
2653[18:30:20] *** Quits: _subopt_in_repos (~subopt@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2654[18:30:31] <jelly> Primer: that's not really correct;
Canonical does tests on more hardware than Debian, and they easily
enable non-free drivers where needed
2655[18:30:41] <pyfgcr> Primer: not sure I get the difference
2656[18:30:59] <pyfgcr> * I'm not
2657[18:31:21] <jelly> variations in versions, build options and
default settings also affect OOTB experience
2658[18:31:32] <Primer> You make it sounds as if some things are
mutually exclusive between debian and ubuntu. To suggest one
software works in one but not the other, is simply false
2659[18:31:56] <jelly> it's hardware support we're
discussing
2660[18:32:12] <Primer> yeah, and that's even less of a
distinction
2661[18:32:21] <Tenkawa> Primer: what????
2662[18:32:28] <yvyz> What the fuck
2663[18:32:35] <yvyz> Excuse my language. Apologies
2666[18:32:49] <Primer> getting hardware working is the easiest
thing
2667[18:32:57] <yvyz> How much of Debian do you think is in
Ubuntu?
2668[18:33:00] <jelly> Primer: okay, stay here for a couple weeks
and see how many people show up with something that works on Ubuntu
but fails on Debian and vice-versa
2669[18:33:02] <Tenkawa> hardware is heavily dependent on library
calls and kernel code
2670[18:33:16] <Primer> jelly: been here, done that
2715[18:38:48] <pyfgcr> Primer: when you say that hardware is
heavily kernel depentent => (works in ubuntu => works in
debian), you are suggesting it's normal practice for debian
users to install ubuntu kernel patches?
2716[18:38:57] <yvyz> I guess it just confusing when people out
right suggest that Ubuntu upstreams 100% of Debian. Then assumes
that all that works on Debian shall work on Ubuntu and vica versa
2719[18:39:29] <yvyz> Which is a strictly incorrect statement,
and displays a serious lack of knowledge of the person who said it.
2720[18:39:30] <pyfgcr> so can you please clarify to me?
2721[18:39:33] <jmcnaught> I would say that if a piece of
hardware works in Ubuntu it's extremely likely it will also
work in Debian. Some things might require a little effort or waiting
for a backported kernel. In some cases the hardware might need a
library (like mesa or xorg stuff) that might not get backported. But
hardware support is the same across distros is the rule not the
exception.
2723[18:39:42] <somiaj> also debian's stock kernel is often
older (espcially near the end of a release cycle) and newer hardware
is just not supported on it causing extra work to get it to work.
2724[18:39:52] <Primer> To say that hardware relies on the system
libraries is false.
2738[18:40:54] <petn-randall> Primer: It really depends. X11 has
user space drivers for the graphics cards (xserver-xorg-video-*
packages) that also need to support the graphics card for it to work
sufficiently.
2739[18:40:55] <pyfgcr> jmcnaught: I mainly agree, but we were
specifically tolking about tochscreens in the beginning, and there
the matter is different
2740[18:40:56] <yvyz> I actually hand fed my linux.
2741[18:41:01] <Primer> jmcnaught: and what was that?
2745[18:41:33] <jelly> jmcnaught: and Linux _still_ does not have
power/thermal sorted out completely for SKL and newer
2746[18:41:47] <somiaj> the xserver-xorg-modesetting driver is
trying to help on this front, but not all kernel modules are fully
kms and compadabile with it.
2747[18:41:48] <Primer> petn-randall: all of that is ultimately
driven by the kernel. You don't drive anything in userspace
without a kernel.
2748[18:41:58] <Primer> somiaj: mesa gets you features, it's
not driving any hardware
2749[18:42:09] <jelly> Primer: this channel covers stable mostly,
and versions of software in stable will often make new hardware
problematic
2750[18:42:21] <petn-randall> Primer: Sure, but even if your
kernel module supports your GPU, you still need the corresponding
user space drivers for X11.
2751[18:42:38] <Primer> jelly: sure, but to say that hardware is
'not supported' has to be taken with a grain of salt
2752[18:42:39] <yvyz> Also, the nvidia user space driver helps
drive the kernel module and for things like how Wayland use currenty
battling a lack of EGLStreams support, and xwayland has been
co-opted to handle the kernel parameters... you would be compeltely
incorrect in all of your statements so far.
2753[18:42:43] <jelly> Primer: just that alone makes "if it
works in Ubuntu it'll work on Debian" problematic
2754[18:42:57] <Primer> it's really up to the person and
what they're willing to do. for example, nvidia 430 is not
"supported" on testing
2755[18:42:58] <jelly> Primer: "can be made to work"
I'd accept
2756[18:43:02] <Primer> yet, I have it installed
2757[18:43:12] <petn-randall> I thought we were talking out of
the box hardware support?
2766[18:44:41] <somiaj> but in years here, I've seen various
issues with getting a bleeding edge gpu to work in debian, more than
just say kernel+firmware from backports.
2820[18:54:21] <jmcnaught> I have a touch screen on my laptop
that I disabled with a udev ATTR{authorized}="0" rule. If
I wanted to be able to toggle it on/off, are there any side effects
from running "udevadm control -R && udevadm
trigger" that I should know about, or is there another way I
could do it?
2821[18:54:31] <jelly> Primer: if it takes, say, a whole newer
stack of kernel/drm/mesa/xorg to drive their stuff, then picking a
distro that already has it is saner
2822[18:54:45] <Primer> jelly: indeed
2823[18:54:52] <yvyz> Well, its a pretty great way of pointing
out how an entire architecture bug fails to allow Jessie and really
a load of linux kernels to install. petn-randall and it is clear
that I would be arguing this point to someone who is crass enough to
believe that linux will install on any hardware.
2839[18:58:43] <Primer> It was a precious point that needed to be
made
2840[18:59:28] <hmuller> I recently upgraded my BIOS with no
chance of reverting. Nothing horrible has happened, but I no longer
get sound output over HDMI. pavucontrol no longer shows HDMI in the
configuration tab. where do I start looking?
2860[19:02:52] <hmuller> jelly: been using testing, buster I
think. which is 4.19
2861[19:03:12] <rant> you may also need amd firmware if that
wasnt already covered, I have a machine with an AMD SoC and it
requires firmware for audio over dp/hdmi
2862[19:03:33] *** Quits: Zppix (uid182351@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2863[19:04:00] <Primer> he said it was working before a bios
upgrade though
2889[19:09:12] <Primer> jelly: I mention it because it seems that
ACPI is a factor in a lot of things in modern hardware
2890[19:09:20] *** Quits: vutral (~vutral@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2891[19:09:24] <Primer> I've had to specify apci boot params
to get certain hardware working
2892[19:09:55] <jelly> yes, and sometimes the firmware only
enables things if you make the OS pretend to be a specific Windows
generation
2893[19:10:00] *** Parts: andre20021 (~andre2002@replaced-ip) ("Once you know what it is you want to be true, instinct is
a very useful device for enabling you to know that it is")
2894[19:10:11] <jelly> or provides different interfaces
2895[19:10:12] <Primer> yup, apci="windows 2009"
2896[19:10:22] *** Quits: rany (~rany@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2897[19:10:23] <Primer> is what I've been having to use. My
touchpad still has issues
2898[19:10:32] <jelly> that might have been
acpi.osi="Windows 2009"
2949[19:19:08] <Primer> It's a concept that it's fully
grasped in many conversations I have about Linux. This gets asked
all the time in #ardour: Will _so and so USB sound card_ work in
Linux?
2954[19:19:57] <Primer> The only 'driver' you'll
need is snd_usb_audio
2955[19:20:18] <Primer> You will never need a driver that is
specific to that one model of sound card. This is my point.
2956[19:20:19] <yvyz> You'd be great in #freebsd
2957[19:20:49] <Primer> I'm sure you are
2958[19:21:13] *** Quits: vutral (vutral@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2959[19:21:20] <mutante> i guess as long as stuff that isn't
following the specs also works on Windows people are not going to
care about specs.. they will just ask why it doesn't work here
when it can "just work" there
2970[19:23:27] *** Quits: vutral (~vutral@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2971[19:23:58] <Primer> Then imagine if such a spec exists, and
hardware implements it. You plug said hardware in, and yes, it Just
Works™ (this is a concept. This already exists in USB)
2977[19:25:32] <jelly> Primer: you really, really don't want
to look at the zillion quirks to make usb, pci, pcie hw actually
work, in linux kernel source
2978[19:25:51] <Primer> The main reason this crap doesn't
exists now is because hardare manufacturers want to compete and make
money. ubiquiti is not conducive to such business models.
2981[19:26:51] <Primer> jelly: heh all I said was there is a spec
and that the spec is implemented in all modern OSes. For a piece of
hardware to be supported in any of these OSes, it simply needs to
follow the spec. What it took to get that spec to work in each
OS...not relevant
2982[19:27:20] <yvyz> man, this channel.
2983[19:27:27] <Primer> Sure, if your device has a quirk...it
likely has that quirk in every OS
2984[19:27:34] <jelly> what you said discounted the thing we call
reality
2985[19:27:38] <Primer> yvyz: you're learning new things
from it?
2986[19:27:50] <Primer> jelly: how so?
2987[19:28:48] <GenTooMan> I always liked this quote
"reality like it or leave it!"
2988[19:28:49] <Primer> I'm being 100% serious. I'm
talking about USB audio devices, specifically, something I'm
dealing with on an almost daily basis when using ardour, the free
and open source digital audio workstation
2989[19:28:57] <jelly> Primer: drivers follow actual hardware,
not the other way round
2990[19:29:14] <Primer> jelly: I'm talking specifically
about the usb audio spec
2991[19:29:26] <yvyz> Not at all. Come over to oftc and join the
mm and knewbies and learn how linux is developed. You are just not
really a nice person. And this channel has gone extremely offtopic
with some sensational fear of telling each other to get back to just
chilling > debating the nuances of your intellect.
2992[19:29:29] <jelly> Primer: I'm talking about almost
everything else.
2993[19:29:30] <Primer> this spec being the "universal"
_driver_ for such things
3013[19:33:04] *** Quits: Zvmdyv (~Zvmdyv@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3014[19:33:19] <Primer> the USB spec for audio, block storage,
video...were a HUGE leap in making computer hardware more open.
Hardware manufacturers don't like openness.
3018[19:33:59] <Primer> So yeah, go read up on these specs, and
consider what I wrote about it in the context of this conversation,
and get back to me. I'll be here all day.
3075[19:52:52] *** Quits: dtux (~dmtucker@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3076[19:53:18] <jelly> Dragone2: could you please disable that
away nick setting? irc has a native away flag, you can use that and
most clients show it.
3077[19:53:46] <jelly> Dragone2: it just adds to noise in large
channels like this
3160[20:37:24] <bernyrd> hello, very serious issue. I can log in.
I know I use right password, am not told password wrong. But it
looks like I log in, but then I do not log in, am back at prompt
again.
3161[20:37:29] <bernyrd> This also I think affect x2go session
3162[20:37:32] *** Quits: traveltissues (~traveltis@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3163[20:37:37] <bernyrd> got around it with xvfb-run for a while
3164[20:37:38] <bernyrd> bu no
3165[20:38:29] *** Quits: vutral (vutral@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3217[20:57:20] <Logg> i did it, i made it to debian buster. It
was not smooth lol. lightdm broke and had to be reinstalled.
cryptsetup broke in initramfs so i had to chroot the system from
livecd and set it up again,... kaffeine & k4dirstat and all the
kde stuff I just removed because there was some conflict. My font
rendering looks bad now, so I have to figure that one out. AwesomeWM
always breaks their stuff on purpose, I think because they’re
bored, so
3218[20:57:20] <Logg> I had to diff between their rc.lua and my
rc.lua, awesome 4.1 to 4.3. update-initramfs complained that amdgpu
vega20 firmware was missing, so I copied them from the
linux-firmware git. But now I’m on debian buster so
that’s pretty neat
3223[20:58:32] *** Quits: vutral (vutral@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3224[20:58:51] <Logg> I did actually find a bug report for the
cryptsetup thing, but the dude closed it as not reproducible.
I'm always weary filing bug reports that aren't detailed
enough, or when it could be from something dumb I did
3225[20:59:27] <Logg> like if i wanted to report the lightdm
thing i'd say "lightdm broke" right? like, that
doesn't do much for them
3226[21:00:17] <Logg> I think it was because I said "go
ahead and install maintainers version" and then before apt was
finished installing it, i went back into the config and put my
startup script line in
3227[21:00:25] <Logg> may have broken it
3228[21:01:14] <greycat> Be more detailed. Did it break during
the package upgrade? If so, copy the error messages out of your
script(1) log of the session. Does it fail to start when you boot,
but startx works fine? Does it run, but you can't login? And so
on. Be specific. Be detailed.
3229[21:02:07] <areyouloco> Hi I am trying to get remote desktop
of debian via vnc. I followed this:
replaced-url
3230[21:02:14] <areyouloco> i know it has something to do with
proper $HOME/.vnc/xstartup but I cannot make gnome to work
3232[21:02:25] <greycat> If you think it's because of a
customized configuration file, that's also useful information.
Explain what customizations you made, and note the error messages in
~/.xsession-errors or wherever lightdm logs stuff. I know very
little about DMs.
3233[21:02:38] <karlpinc> Yes, filing bug reports is a pain. But
in some sense it's the price you pay for using FOSS.
3237[21:04:11] <karlpinc> (You often get the satisfaction of
having your bugs actually fixed, assuming you file an adequate bug
report. Unlike the usual case in the proprietary world.)
3238[21:05:50] <NetTerminalGene> hi guys. i encountered a bug on
both gnome 3.28 and 3.30 on debian. if you copy and paste multiple
files, after the first file paste, indicator freezes, but it copies
in the background anyways. can you confirm?
3239[21:06:33] <areyouloco> nevermind I got this working now
3240[21:07:20] *** Joins: wilson (~wilson@replaced-ip)
3273[21:14:12] <somiaj> NetTerminalGene: you are welcome to
report a bug, espically if you have a way to ensure the devs can
reporduce it, also may want to look at upstream for this (debian may
not try to fix this indvidual issue, but the matainer may forward
the problem to upstream if it can be reproduced)
3274[21:14:19] *** Alina-malina_ is now known as alina-malina
3275[21:14:24] <Primer> Lady_Aleena: You will forever be known to
be as such :)
3317[21:27:39] <Primer> all unknown commands should look scary
3318[21:27:41] <debianuser> NetTerminalGene: Are there any
hyperthreading-specific vulnerabilities? All
"vulnerabilities" I know are usually the result of cpu
cache existence. Hyperthreading may make the exploit easier, but
it's not the cause. The cause is the cpu arch, you can't
fix that easily.
3319[21:28:21] <NetTerminalGene> debianuser, i think openbsd
disabled it by default
3321[21:28:38] <Primer> I thought they were the speculative
execution issues, not cache existence
3322[21:29:21] <debianuser> NetTerminalGene: Luckily, usually you
don't have to, as those "vulnerabilities" usually
only allow one running process to guess partially what the other
running process is doing, and that's usually not the issue,
unless you're hosting VMs with a finance-critical encryption in
one VM and a scary untrusted virus in another one. :)
3353[21:35:11] <Primer> What you heard was probably something
like "If this gets any worse, we'll simply have to disable
HT". There are still currently ways of mitigating the issues,
so there's no need to go there yet.
3354[21:35:41] <Primer> Read the changelogs that have been
linked.
3399[21:49:38] <altker128> Hey guys. Kind of a dumb UNIX
folder/file permissions question here. I have a folder (i.e.
ROOT_FOLDER) and inside there's a directory which I want to
grant permission to a specific user (i.e /ROOT_FOLDER/SUB_FOLDER) ;
I have permissions set on SUB_FOLDER but I guess because the user
doesn't have execute permission on ROOT_FOLDER then, it
won't have access to SUB_FOLDER?
3400[21:50:08] <greycat> you need +x permissions for that user on
ROOT_FOLDER, either "other", or a group that the user is
in
3401[21:51:03] <donofrio> what do I need to do to get my .deb
locally copied to be read like a local mirror?
replaced-url
3419[21:57:36] <leeward> I have a product I want to ship that
runs Debian, and I have some specific configuration that I want to
keep on all instances of the product. Is there a preferred way to do
that? A .deb package that overrides other packages' config
files seems...weird.
3427[21:59:53] <leeward> karlpinc: I can set them at install
time, but that doesn't give me a good way to manage them in the
future (and in the field).
3447[22:06:04] <jim> debianuser, hi... I screwed up my cadence
install, I think by doing an autoremove of something needed by
cadence but missing from the depend list of the package
3448[22:06:20] *** Quits: vutral (~vutral@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3449[22:06:37] <altker128> Is there anything that lets you
automatically diff what you use to configure something and helps
create the ansible scripts?
3467[22:15:03] <bernyrd> starting from nothing and creating
comprehensive set of changes is only way I have seen people 1) catch
every chagne impacting the sw and 2) understand what they have
actually set up
3473[22:17:42] <mutante> altker128: build a .deb that applies the
patches and then let ansible or puppet install a package?
3474[22:17:49] <donofrio> I'm stuck till I can figure out
how to apply the arcive_2019.key or something to get this ports
mirror to work on my powerpc
3475[22:18:04] <leeward> Hmm, ansible looks like it might work,
but seems like a centralized push type system, where I want
something more similar to apt with distributed nodes that can pull
configuration at will.
3476[22:18:15] <mutante> puppet?
3477[22:18:36] <leeward> I probably don't want to maintain a
central inventory of all these things.
3484[22:20:01] <blackflow> SaltStack is closer to ansible in
concepts and syntax, might wanna take a look at that before Puppet
3485[22:20:02] <debianuser> jim: `apt-get install -f` should
probably get you all the missing dependencies...
3486[22:20:12] <altker128> mutante: I don't know what the
benefit of having a '.deb' that applies the patches vs.
using Ansible / Puppet to do that, if you're going the
Ansible/Puppet route
3487[22:20:14] <karlpinc> leeward: And see if you can pull with
ansible. (I've no clue, but it always seemed the most flexible
of those sorts of systems.)
3488[22:20:27] <altker128> mutante: Or, just keep the patch and
run a script that applies it once via SSH
3489[22:20:41] <blackflow> leeward: sorry, didn't hilight
you, check out my comment about saltstack just above
3490[22:21:19] *** Quits: Shahnaz_ (~Shahnaz@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3492[22:22:13] <LinuxGuy2020> Hello I am trying to combine 3x
120GB SSD with RAID 0. I created a 2GB EFI partition, a 2GB /boot
partition, 16GB swap at the end of the drive , the rest is for /
partition. The only partition that is created on a RAID device is
the / partition. It will boot just fine. The problem is when I try
and do a dist-upgrade, it winds up breaking GRUB on next reboot. Is
this normal or is this simply a current bug in unstable?
3496[22:22:55] <mutante> altker128: oh, it seemed to me that
creating all the patches and dumping them into a package would be
easier than having to tell ansible about a bunch of individual files
and their contents and that somehow it would be "cleaner"
to have the config management just install packages .. but whatever
works
3498[22:23:01] <donofrio> anyone know how to get archive_2019.key
reconised on my system?
3499[22:23:04] <altker128> LinuxGuy2020: It might be cleaner to
make your boot/OS volumes onto a non-RAID drive
3500[22:23:32] <greycat> donofrio: apt-key add? I have no idea
what this file is, so I'm guessing it's an APT archive
signing key or whatever they're called.
3501[22:23:43] <mutante> altker128: the "patch via ssh"
part seems nice until you have more than 1 server and 1 distro
version
3502[22:24:11] <altker128> mutante: You might be right. I still
struggle to see what Ansible/Puppet "adds" if you're
installing basic software packages, and then changing the config
files (which is pretty much what you have to do to configure some
software)
3503[22:24:46] <mutante> altker128: it becomes more obvious if
you have a larger number of servers and more than 1 server per
"role"
3504[22:24:47] <altker128> mutante: How does Ansible/Puppet help
in that regard? Basically as a user you need to "tokenize"
configuration parameters, and then pass them in from some top-level
3505[22:25:22] <mutante> basically it's that you only do
things once and don't repeat yourselves when doing it on 1000
boxes
3506[22:25:26] <altker128> I know that if you wanted to say
"mass apt update / apt upgrade" that Ansible/Puppet helps
with that
3507[22:25:36] <mutante> and that you have all the history and
state in a repo
3508[22:26:00] <mutante> which is much nicer than "our admin
guy did magic and now there's the new guy"
3509[22:26:07] <altker128> I get how they help with maintaing
systems, but I am still not sure about configuration
3510[22:26:45] <mutante> they dont help with configuring
services.. it's the same work to edit that config file once ..
i would agree
3511[22:26:59] <mutante> either you edit it directly or a
template for it.. but at least you do it only once
3512[22:27:00] <karlpinc> altker128: It helps a lot to know
which, of the big pile, configuration files are frobbed on any given
system. And what was changed.
3513[22:27:24] <tds> altker128: as an example, I've got 3
identically configured reverse proxies at the edge of my network, I
have ansible take in just a list of hostnames then generate the
config from that, and deploy it to all of them
3514[22:27:40] <tds> and of course when you scale it up to
"real" infrastructure rather than just personal stuff, it
makes even more sense :)
3518[22:28:00] <karlpinc> altker128: Or, I want to rebuild this
box. What config files do I need to touch?
3519[22:28:13] <altker128> karlpinc: What that's my very
question -- how do you resolve that?
3520[22:28:34] <altker128> tds: Did you end up manually scripting
the part that takes in list of hostnames ---> modify
configuration files?
3521[22:29:19] <tds> altker128: it's a jinja2 template that
gets rendered out to a full config
3522[22:29:28] <karlpinc> altker128: I don't know. I just
hear that people use ansible to do this. I'd imagine it has to
do with what configs get automaticaly pushed to what VMs (etc.).
3523[22:29:37] <bernyrd> mutante: actually I like that, using
.deb
3524[22:29:56] <leeward> thanks karlpinc and blackflow, will look
into those more
3525[22:30:02] <tds> as an example:
3526[22:30:02] <tds> {% for site in sites.sites.keys() %}
3531[22:30:30] <altker128> tds: Ah, so you tokenized/templatized
a given configuration file's syntax, and then modify it from a
script
3532[22:30:39] <leeward> Incidentally, Puppet's really bad
at explaining how it works. It's got a section on its web site
entitled "How it works" but it just talks about outcomes
not process.
3533[22:30:52] <bernyrd> mutante: but, I found agentless to be
better, you just need way to properly manage roles
3534[22:30:52] <tds> altker128: yeah
3535[22:31:01] <karlpinc> tds: I'd use m4. Just saying. :)
3536[22:31:14] <tds> m4?
3537[22:31:49] <tds> oh, heh
3538[22:31:49] <altker128> Oh man
3539[22:31:51] <altker128> m4
3540[22:31:51] <karlpinc> tds: Instead of jinga2. It's a
macro substitution system.
3541[22:31:53] <bernyrd> macro language, use by people with long
flowing beards.
3589[22:43:26] <altker128> So, for example, if deploying an
application needed A) postgres B) nginx C) sendmail D) dovecot ,
you're saying Puppet doesn't help there?
3590[22:44:01] <jpw> it can, it's nowhere near as graceful
as some other tools
3595[22:45:54] <jpw> that's the combo we use (we are mode
1). puppet to look after the OS and ensure it's monitored and
integrated with essential services. then deploy the application on
top with ansible.
3596[22:46:37] <altker128> jpw: So, Ansible to install/configure
packages, Puppet to keep the systems up to date and monitor them?
3599[22:47:38] <zoredache> altker128: or just ansible for
everything.
3600[22:48:08] <jpw> not quite. take a kubernetes cluster for
example. each server must have its time synchronised, integrated
with active directory for login and rbac, snmp server installed for
baseline monitoring. this is handled with puppet. kubernetes is then
deployed on top using ansible.
3601[22:49:18] <jpw> zoredache: in an ideal world yea.
unfortunately through experience individual teams have not taken
requests to change things like community strings seriously so we
needed another way to manage them
3602[22:49:20] *** Quits: subopt (~subopt@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
3638[23:12:54] <donofrio> or anyone else that can help me get my
local .deb packages installed inthe correct order to get apt updates
to work from debian-ports mirror
3645[23:14:44] <sloshy> and make the minecraft deb package not
work anymore
3646[23:14:44] <donofrio> what paste do you prefer cause I'm
just trying to get info to you good folks....its buster iminimal
install from install cdrom that had no mirrors to build because
arcive_2019.key is not importe or something like taht
3657[23:18:47] <donofrio> do you know what I need to to get my
local .deb files installed in correct order with dependancy
resolution aka, how do I mount "sources" directory that is
a copy of the buster netinstall cdrom to get reconized so this all
"just works"
3658[23:19:00] <donofrio> sloshy, ot openjdk11
3659[23:19:04] <BCMM> donofrio: i don't think the order of
installation is the problem here...
3660[23:19:24] <donofrio> ok I'm here to type what is needed
to get apt-get update to work
3661[23:19:42] <BCMM> where did you get that gpgv .deb from?
3662[23:19:55] <mutante> move the .deb files to
/var/cache/apt/archives/ and then use apt-get install ?
3694[23:24:11] <donofrio> welll how do I show you what I have
without installing anything new
3695[23:24:12] <BCMM> donofrio: well, which is it? buster and sid
are not the same...
3696[23:24:17] <donofrio> buster
3697[23:24:23] <mutante> lsb_release -a
3698[23:24:28] <donofrio> one min
3699[23:24:33] <BCMM> donofrio: so, how long is it since you ran
`apt upgrade` or an equivalent?
3700[23:24:40] <BCMM> donofrio: and what happens if you try now?
3701[23:24:50] <somiaj> also why are you just not using the
unoffical powerpc port, that is really all debian has to offer, what
is this older iso you are trying to use?
3702[23:25:03] <mutante> kali ?:)
3703[23:25:12] <donofrio> lsb_release not found on this system
3704[23:25:18] <somiaj> the netinstall iso is not going to have
that many packages, what is your goal here?
3705[23:25:43] <somiaj> BCMM: they have been having trouble
trying to get the old powerpc port to work, of which no one really
knows much about it anymore, and it is all unoffical and on
ports.debian.org
3706[23:25:45] <mutante> that's odd, i usually have
lsb_release on any ubuntu or debian i have recently seen
3707[23:25:48] <donofrio> I'll use whatever I can...aka
I'm flexable send whatever iso and sources.list needed to make
this work
3708[23:25:58] <BCMM> donofrio: honestly, there's a lot of
your pastebin that i'm failing to see the relevance of, but the
error at the end is, quite simply, the result of trying to install a
new package on a very out-of-date system
3711[23:26:20] <donofrio> the very out of date system was
downloaded and installed yesterday
3712[23:26:26] <BCMM> somiaj: what does "old" powerpc
port mean in this context? is it discontinued?
3713[23:26:29] <donofrio> it has no mirrors and is only minial
install
3714[23:26:50] <donofrio> I'm trying to inport
arcvhive_2019.key so it wourld work with the powerpc arch type on th
edebian-ports mirros
3715[23:26:51] <BCMM> donofrio: and you're trying to bring
it up to date using a different, newer install cd, rather than a
mirror?
3716[23:27:07] <BCMM> somiaj: is it gone from the mirrors now? is
that why donofrio is trying to update it from cd?
3717[23:27:14] <somiaj> BCMM: powerpc has not been an offical
port since jessie, support for it was dropped in stetch, and the
packages have been moved over to ports.debian.org. It only has sid,
and it isn't that well supported.
3719[23:27:36] <donofrio> local deb files all I have till I can
get sources.list that will work with this....asking and waiting not
looking for quick answress but I'm here to do whta you
recommend
3720[23:27:37] <somiaj> they have been trying to do alot, but it
could be that the cd and the install they have work are just not
compadable, I don't think any powerpc cds are made anymore
3727[23:28:47] <bernyrd> hi I have a disk I install on, but too
small
3728[23:28:48] <bernyrd> can I replace with bigger disk? it use
lvm, can I dd the smaller one to the larger, and run a lvm command
to see bigger space?
3733[23:29:54] <somiaj> and powerpc is just one of those now
obsecure ports that not many people use regurally so as I've
menetioned multple times, is not gonna be well supported
3736[23:30:29] <somiaj> BCMM: I've pointed them there
multiple times, but yea each time they come here, we have to point
out to the person offering help they are using powerpc
3737[23:30:38] <vlt> bernyrd: Yes, you can change the size even
of physical volumes later.
3738[23:30:44] <BCMM> somiaj: and the package donofrio is failing
to install, which apparently was extracted from the iso, wants
sid's current libc6 version (which he hasn't got)
3739[23:30:58] <somiaj> BCMM: ahh, maybe they are still making
iso's, problem is finding someone who has actual experience
(other than reading the docs) with powerpc to provide good support.
3740[23:31:01] <donofrio> tried the one line in my sources.list
and got this -
replaced-url
3741[23:31:23] <somiaj> donofrio: did you use the old jessie
installer to get where you are at?
3742[23:32:18] <somiaj> donofrio: so you need to get the current
key which you have also been pointed to,
replaced-url
3744[23:32:55] <somiaj> you could also just disable the key, and
get packages without apt-secure, this is just a config option to
move beyond tha tpoint
3745[23:33:00] *** Quits: Logg (~Logg@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3746[23:33:00] <donofrio> no I got it from
replaced-url
3747[23:33:07] <BCMM> donofrio: ah, i think i see the problem
now... the system is out-of-date; you can't bring it up to date
from the mirror because a key isn't installed, and you're
trying to manually install gpgv so you can update the key. is that
right?
3748[23:33:17] *** Quits: JohnML (~john1@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3761[23:35:36] <BCMM> so there are two different install ISOs
involved, right? the one you installed from, and the newer one that
you're now trying to update from?
3762[23:35:54] <donofrio> no only one iso from that link
replaced-url
3769[23:36:52] <somiaj> maybe it would be best if they just
disabled secure apt, and updated the keys that way, then moved on.
Or use wget to get the key and use apt-key add to add it
3770[23:37:01] <donofrio> from the .iso file itself I expanded it
and scp'ed it to the sources directory locally in my homedir
3771[23:37:03] <BCMM> but surely the iso doesn't have
packages that use more than one different libc version on it?
3780[23:37:38] <somiaj> BCMM: yea, seems the current state of
ports is hard to find good docs, even ports.debian.org didn't
update the curernt key from 2018 to 2019 on the webpae, we had to
find the new key elsewhere.
3781[23:37:39] <BCMM> somiaj: i *was* starting to wonder about
that... you don't actually need gpgv to install a debian key,
do you?
3782[23:37:56] <BCMM> huh, i thought curl was in the default
install
3783[23:38:02] <BCMM> maybe just libcurl without the client
3784[23:38:13] <somiaj> I'm not quite sure on the details,
its always just worked for me using the debian package, I think you
can manually use gpgv, but apt-key is a front end to manage this in
some sense.
3785[23:38:35] <donofrio> ok so here I am still wondering what to
do next
3786[23:38:40] <somiaj> but they can just disable secure apt and
get around the invalid key warning, you do have to trust someone
doens't try to inject something, but I think they are safe.
3788[23:39:15] <donofrio> I have the files cally, if I could
import the archive_2019.key instal the live install session then it
would see the ports mirror?
3801[23:41:50] <BCMM> i'm also a bit confused about how they
got the outdated files installed in the first place
3802[23:42:13] <BCMM> the only .iso on the page is a netinst iso
- i thought netinst didn't actually install any packages from
the cd
3803[23:42:17] <donofrio> who 'they' the mirror
maintainers or me?
3804[23:42:20] <somiaj> yea, I think that is the main problem,
donofrio needs some help, but no one around to help is actually
familar with debian-ports and powerpc
3805[23:42:37] <somiaj> netinstall contains a minimial base
system that doens't need a network to install
3806[23:42:40] <donofrio> BCMM, your close that sounds irght
3807[23:42:50] <somiaj> so you can do a minimial install from a
netinstall without internet.
3808[23:42:52] <donofrio> it didn't install much of anything
lucky to have bash and ssh
3809[23:43:05] <donofrio> right but how do you get it to updat
eonce the internet is there?
3810[23:43:10] <somiaj> it installs a little more than
debootstrap, a little less than the standard task
3811[23:43:10] <Primer> if you have ssh, you can have curl
3815[23:43:43] <somiaj> donofrio: have you read the manpage to
apt-key, it says 'apt key filename' add that 2019.key file
you downloaded
3816[23:43:43] <BCMM> somiaj: i mostly just use debootstrap, so
i'm a bit confused here. does netinst give you the choice
between a *very* minimal system from the CD, or whatever you want,
up to date, from the net?
3817[23:43:46] <donofrio> I had to apt install sshclient from dvd
3818[23:43:50] <donofrio> to get sh to work
3819[23:43:51] *** Quits: pringau (~pringau@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3820[23:44:10] <BCMM> talking of debootstrap... is that perhaps
the answer here?
3821[23:44:12] <Primer> ssh works over a network. If you're
networked, use said networks, and apt uddate; apt install curl;
3822[23:44:21] <mutante> BCMM: yea, but it is just whether you
select stuff in the software install sectin of the installer.. if
you click "desktop system" or not etc
3824[23:44:36] <BCMM> just nuke it and get a new system
that's current with debootstrap maybe?
3825[23:44:47] <BCMM> Primer: network works, apt doesn't.
keyring is out of date.
3826[23:44:48] <somiaj> BCMM: Basically you can skip the
'configure apt' part and just 'finlize install',
in that case you get what is on the cd. If you go as far as
configuring apt and setting up a network/mirror, the netinstall will
update all the packages and give you the option (via tasksel) to
install additional software.
3827[23:45:00] <BCMM> Primer: and the system may or may not be
too minimal to bring it up to date...
3828[23:45:11] <Primer> then download a static curl binary?
Surely these exist
3829[23:45:17] <Primer> oh powerpc, right...
3830[23:45:19] <mutante> i would never use tasksel..there is
always time to install stuff later.. and only the ones you really
want, heh
3832[23:45:40] <somiaj> donofrio: and the minimial install
didn't include wget, I thought it included that
3833[23:45:58] <BCMM> why is wget the problem, though?
3834[23:46:18] <somiaj> mutante: yea, I like the minimial
install, and I like that you don't need network for netinstall,
just incase you needed non-free firmware or something, skip the
network part, get a minimial system, and build up from there.
3836[23:46:39] <somiaj> BCMM: so they can get the key, ,replaced-url
3837[23:46:40] <BCMM> somiaj: i know there's a bunch of
irrelevant stuff in the pastebin, but have a look at lines 13/14
replaced-url
3838[23:46:53] *** Quits: BlueByte (~walther@replaced-ip) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
3839[23:46:55] <BCMM> looks like they have the key, and gpg
really is the problem
3840[23:47:15] <Primer> Can't the key just be dropped in
/etc/apt/somewhere?
3841[23:47:38] <donofrio> yah I'll do that but it will still
erro I believe
3842[23:47:39] <Primer> I thought apt-key was just a convenience
3843[23:47:51] <Primer> apt update after dropping the key in the
dir?
3844[23:47:59] <somiaj> ahh, then they just need to disable the
key alltogether at this point
3845[23:48:13] <Primer> you can always force things in apt itself
3846[23:48:17] <BCMM> Primer: i think it gets added to a single
keyring file
3847[23:48:18] <Primer> or just use dpkg
3848[23:48:25] <BCMM> /etc/apt/trusted.gpg
3849[23:48:36] <mutante> somiaj: actually i do need non-free
firmware each time.. and it's always wifi ..iwlwifi..because i
cant be bothered to get the ethernet adapter (sigh that this is a
thing) and cable and plug in somewhere .. the problem is usually i
copy the firmware files to a USB drive and then the installer scans
it but doesnt find anything :p
3850[23:49:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1500
3851[23:49:03] <donofrio> it's not seeing it in /etc/apt
3852[23:49:14] <BCMM> mutante: there are iso images available
with nonfree firmware included...
3853[23:49:19] <donofrio> should the renameed arcive_2019.key.gpg
file go somehwre else
3854[23:49:43] <BCMM> no, it has to be integrated in to
trusted.gpg using gpg
3855[23:49:48] <BCMM> using gnupg
3856[23:49:53] <BCMM> (i think)
3857[23:50:03] <somiaj> mutante: I was commenting how you can
skip that stage in the installer, then deal with it from a minimial
install (copy firmware over, configure network, move on)
3858[23:50:44] <mutante> BCMM: good point, i might look next time
3859[23:50:48] <somiaj> I just am not familar enough with
apt-secure, but at this point I just think disabling it would
probably be the best way to move forward.
3860[23:50:51] <mutante> somiaj: oh. right! that's another
way, sure
3861[23:50:57] <BCMM> somiaj: do debports have their own signing
key, or do they use the main debian one?
3862[23:51:08] <somiaj> BCMM: their own, I've linked it a
few times,
3863[23:51:26] <somiaj> actually donofrio has the key, they just
can't seem to add it due to gpg missing
3864[23:51:30] <BCMM> somiaj: right, so donofrio can't just
scp a trusted.gpg from another, working debian machine...
3865[23:51:58] *** Quits: woenx (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3866[23:51:59] <donofrio> yep, and the .deb files are in the
/home/donofrio/sources directory but dependencies kicking in ;(
3873[23:53:01] <donofrio> yah I was dpkg --install attemted
3874[23:53:11] *** Plagman_ is now known as Plagman
3875[23:53:24] <somiaj> I still think adding a correct config to
/etc/apt/conf.d/ to disable the key checking is probably their best
bet at this juncture
3876[23:53:25] <mutante> donofrio: if you'd use apt-get that
would resolve dependencies.. and you can use apt-get to install from
local files..if you copy them to /var/cache/apt/archives/
3893[23:59:01] <Rojola> What has the most recent version?
3894[23:59:01] <somiaj> BCMM: yea, it seems to just disable it
for packages, but not for update, which is why I think we also
needed Ignore gpg-pubkey
3895[23:59:04] <Rojola> a) Debian 9.7
3896[23:59:09] <Rojola> b) Ubuntu 18.04 LTS
3897[23:59:17] <BCMM> donofrio: only do this if you're
reasonably sure your internet connection is safe, and be sure to put
it back after you've got the key updated
3898[23:59:23] <somiaj> Rojola: debian 9.9 is the current point
release, but debian buster (10) will be released in a week
3899[23:59:26] <donofrio> like this? deb "trusted=yes"
replaced-url
3900[23:59:32] <Rojola> I must pick an OS on digital ocean for a
droplet