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29 [00:25:24] <Lvl4Sword> This is on Ubuntu Mate 20.04, and
possibly latest Debian: When installing nmap, zenmap is recommended
to install. Though, when attempting to install it you'll get
the error: "Package 'zenmap' has no installation
candidate". - Also getting "However the following packages
replace it: ndiff" - Though ndiff is completely different to
nmap/zenmap :-)
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32 [00:30:23] <mason> Lvl4Sword: Nah, Debian just installs nmap.
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34 [00:31:37] <Lvl4Sword> mason, Hmm. This might just be a
Ubuntu thing. Noticing some weirdness there -
replaced-url
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37 [00:32:57] <mason> Lvl4Sword: No worries. Have some Debian
chickens.
replaced-url
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45 [00:46:12] <NixZiZ> Hey, I'm using an exar UART. I need
a newer kmod which I built and installed than the cdc-acm supplied.
However, cdc-acm kmod seems to always come back every time I connect
the UART... how can I disable that kmod forever, and use
xr_usb_serial_common as I want instead?
46 [00:46:47] <NixZiZ> sFoundation doesn't support the
older cdc_acm kmod sadly
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49 [00:47:45] <NixZiZ> I'm on Debian 10
50 [00:47:51] <NixZiZ> sorry if my problem is trivial... pretty
sure it is
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57 [00:57:05] <thorrent_> exit
58 [00:57:11] <dvs> !exit
59 [00:57:11] <dpkg> /quit you fool!
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90 [01:39:49] <edufmass> Hello, I have an AMD Athlon 64 X2 5200+
in a MSI K9N Platinum with 4gb of ram, can I use it for a NAS or is
too old?
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92 [01:40:21] <sney> my desktop is about that old. it'd be
fine
93 [01:41:11] <sney> you *might* want to get a faster HBA for
the disks depending on what sata standard that motherboard has and
depending on what kind of transfer speed you're hoping for
94 [01:42:48] <mason> NixZiZ: If you're trying to remove a
module, you can go ahead and remove that module. It'll come
back on your next kernel update unless you dpkg-divert it or
something.
95 [01:43:00] <edufmass> sney, what is HBA ?
96 [01:43:12] <mason> Host Bus Adapter
97 [01:43:16] <sney> edufmass: host bus adapter. aka disk
controller
98 [01:43:17] <oxek> Anyone know what causes this? It looks like
the solitaire effect from MS windows.
replaced-url
99 [01:43:55] <mason> oxek: Software dies, fails to update
content, frame still exists.
100 [01:44:13] <oxek> I can move the window around, and interact
with it just fine
101 [01:44:14] <sney> ^ or software is taking extra time to load
102 [01:44:39] <oxek> the system still works, it's just all
smeared on the background
103 [01:44:40] <mason> Oh, if it's still alive but doing
that... Window manager hosed? No background set?
104 [01:45:02] <oxek> I need to set a background?
105 [01:45:38] <mason> oxek: If the system gets confused about
the background, sometimes you'll see things that should be
overwritten by it - a moved window, for instance - left there.
106 [01:47:54] <edufmass> sney, I have 2 new WD Red 4tb WD40EFRX
and 3 new WD Green 2tb WD20EARX. I think I will do raid 5 with 3 x
2tb. Just for store video courses and other home files
107 [01:48:32] <sney> probably fine unmodified then
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159 [03:14:46] <rgr> why would global-auto-revert-mode not be
working in .md files? global-auto-revert-ignore-modes is nil.
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192 [04:00:01] <NixZiZ> mason: So I tried to remove it using
rmmod and the like. #find / -name 'cdc_acm' doesn't
find anything named as such once I unload it. however, sure enough,
plug the device back in, and it appears. Checking for "debian
exar" brings up an old thread indicating it might be compiled
in the kernel:
replaced-url
193 [04:00:02] <judd> Bug
replaced-url
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197 [04:01:13] <mason> NixZiZ: dask, not underscore:
/lib/modules/4.19.0-10-amd64/kernel/drivers/usb/class/cdc-acm.ko
198 [04:01:29] <mason> NixZiZ: dash, not dask
199 [04:01:30] <NixZiZ> whoops... thanks for the catch
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208 [04:10:13] <rgr> #+EXCLUDE_TAGS: i org-mode doesn't seem
to be working.
209 [04:10:29] <rgr> ignore
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215 [04:17:33] <NixZiZ> mason: Thanks a lot, I have it working
now!
216 [04:20:03] <mason> NixZiZ: Awesome. Don't forget to read
up on dpkg-divert so that kernel updates don't put it back in
place, or at the least take notes so you can re-do this next time.
217 [04:20:25] <mason> NixZiZ: There might also be some slicker
blacklist-based way to do it, but I'll leave that for smarter
folk to explain, if it exists.
218 [04:21:09] <NixZiZ> honestly this machine is just a shim
until I have my Yocto toolchain up :)
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220 [04:21:54] <mason> Interesting. New to me.
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222 [04:22:02] <NixZiZ> Thanks for the advice though
223 [04:22:27] <NixZiZ> I definitely have copied the location to
a notebook
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249 [04:48:04] <cth> is there a reason one may want to have
multiple partitions within one physical disk?
250 [04:48:34] <cth> Windows kinda makes it a part of root
navigation, but Linux doesn't have that habit.
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252 [04:49:42] <deltanedas> on debian sid, why is
android-sdk-platform-23 the latest available platform?
253 [04:49:45] <dvs> cth, yeah, if you fill and disk it makes the
recovery easier
254 [04:49:47] <ryouma> i think it is normally expected to have
at least one partition per disk
255 [04:50:01] <ryouma> this is not a requirement but some tools
kind of seem to expect it
256 [04:50:28] <ryouma> were you thinking of putting boot root
home all on one partition? you can if you want.
257 [04:50:44] <ryouma> but it can make it more annoying
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263 [05:01:53] <cth> this is ridiculous. So I decided to install
mint with cinnamon.
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266 [05:03:53] <dvs> ???
267 [05:04:06] <cth> Inserted flashdrive with it, it loaded me
into a live OS. I started installation. And then while it was
running, I decided to fool around, not expecting this live CD to be
anything special. Opened browser, went to youtube and started
watching a movie. With sound. Then I was like: "hmmm".
Attached my TV via HDMI, it started working right away, opening as
extended desktop in 4k! I switched the audio to it and it worked! I
was watching movie on my TV from my
268 [05:04:06] <cth> laptop while it was installing an OS
269 [05:04:31] <cth> ridiculous.
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272 [05:05:51] <cth> and this is for free? Without having to
sacrifice my data and dignity to a corporate overlord?
273 [05:05:58] <deltanedas> you can do almost anything on a live
usb
274 [05:06:02] <deltanedas> or cd
275 [05:06:02] <cth> Honestly, windows just capitalizes on
people's ignorance
276 [05:08:15] <ryouma> or unwillingness to have to re-learn
stuff maybe
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285 [05:19:47] <cth> well, Windows makes mistakes. Lately,
especially. Users can do less and less there. No ability to disable
the antivirus, no ability to stop tracking, to stop Windows from
installing its garbage software when nobody asked, etc.
286 [05:20:44] <cth> My wife switched one of her laptops to
linux, then I switched one of mine. Now I'm switching the other
one. If Linux continues performing as it has been, I believe
we'll end up moving all we have to it.
287 [05:21:44] <ryouma> welcome to debian
288 [05:22:35] <deltanedas> apt install fish; chsh
289 [05:22:47] <deltanedas> friendly colorful shell
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307 [05:52:35] <beelzebuzz> zsh
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309 [05:52:47] <beelzebuzz> a real shell :D
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321 [06:12:59] <EdePopede> re-learn, that's why it is a bad
idea to confront school kids with windows and ms-office in the first
place
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331 [06:25:34] <LuxInterior> fish?
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338 [06:28:17] <mason>
replaced-url
339 [06:29:15] <mason> Now, if you want a REAL shell:
replaced-url
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and other good people! | ##replaced-url
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350 [06:42:29] <deltanedas> the realest shell: gcc -xc -
&& ./a.out
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390 [07:51:02] <efloid> grrr android only give info for emulator
packages for ubuntu. no libvirt-bin ubuntu-vm-builder
ia32-libs-multiarch
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405 [07:55:36] <oerheks> ia32-libs is the old way?
406 [07:55:37] <oerheks>
replaced-url
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413 [07:58:54] <efloid> ok just following the debian wiki kvm
page. hopefully that will satisfy android-studio
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415 [07:59:16] <efloid> oerheks: oh thank you!
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424 [08:01:54] <efloid> great. would be nice to create a factoid
recommending to install android-studio via snap and use info from
that site and also
replaced-url
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477 [08:49:17] <SerajewelKS> is there a way from within linux to
tell the system to pretend a SATA disk disappeared? i want to test
various storage redundancy failure scenarios including "drive
suddenly goes missing."
478 [08:49:54] <SerajewelKS> i may be able to rig something up
with qemu to rip a drive out of a running VM but figured if
there's something i can do in /proc or /sys, that would be
easier
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490 [08:56:05] <jelly> SerajewelKS, yes, you can remove the
device with echo 1 > /sys/block/sdX/device/delete, but a SATA
disk usually starts misbehaving in ways other than just disappearing
from bus
491 [08:56:30] <SerajewelKS> jelly: yep this is just one
scenario. thanks, i'll give that a shot.
492 [08:56:32] <Haohmaru> <spooky.jpg>
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509 [09:23:24] <mawst> HAIL!
510 [09:24:24] * Haohmaru eyeballz mawst
511 [09:24:35] <mawst> :D
512 [09:25:12] <mawst> Like what ya see buddy?
513 [09:25:30] <Haohmaru> do you have any questions?
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527 [09:41:36] <Arrow900> How do I fix GNOME not showing
EOG(Image Viewer) on Default Applications for Photos
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534 [09:47:41] <Arrow900> nvm changed mimeapps.list and now it
shows up
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617 [10:53:45] <jelly> !qotd0
618 [10:53:45] <dpkg> <scarynetworkguy> yea any book that
has the phrase 'Pig-fisting' in it is gonna be good
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621 [10:55:19] <Haohmaru> o_O
622 [10:55:49] <Haohmaru> <ineedaparent.jpg>
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754 [13:38:21] <rdz> hey all. is there way to get a list of
initially installed packages, a.k.a packages installed from netinst
medium?
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756 [13:39:37] <themill> "initially installed" depends
on what you selected at install time and what hardware was detected
so it's not that easy
757 [13:40:28] <rdz> themill, i was expecting that set would be
different on different installations.. but maybe there is a report
somehwere?
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759 [13:42:48] <themill> I normally take a list of dpkg
--get-selections at the end of the process; the installer does keep
a log but I'm not sure if it keeps a package log like that
760 [13:43:20] <rdz> themill, ok.. thanks
761 [13:43:41] <rdz> getting a list ot the end of base
installation probably makes sense
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764 [13:46:48] <themill> !standard task
765 [13:46:48] <dpkg> methinks standard task is a
"task" that should be installed on all machines during the
installer stage. It installs packages that are important, required
and standard (i.e. "aptitude install ~pstandard ~prequired
~pimportant"). Packages in the <essential> set are always
installed. Also ask me about <tasksel>.
766 [13:46:53] <themill> ^^ that covers most of it
767 [13:48:31] <rdz> themill, cool. that's already very
helpful
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783 [14:04:23] <Kobaz> having a weird problem with trying to set
default mime types:
replaced-url
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802 [14:24:26] *** coot_ is now known as coot
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804 [14:25:51] <PETURBG> amavisd-snmp-subagent[1333]: Can't
locate NetSNMP/OID.pm
805 [14:26:21] *** Joins: Treylis (~quassel@replaced-ip )
806 [14:27:04] <PETURBG> latest my frie debian.
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817 [14:44:20] <jelly> judd, file NetSNMP/OID.pm
818 [14:44:25] <judd> Search for NetSNMP/OID.pm in buster/amd64:
libsnmp-perl: usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/perl5/5.28/NetSNMP/OID.pm
819 [14:44:37] <jelly> PETURBG, is that package installed
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821 [14:45:03] <PETURBG> i install libnet-snmp-perl
822 [14:45:06] <PETURBG> and reboot again
823 [14:45:17] <jelly> PETURBG, read carefully
824 [14:45:21] <jelly> libsnmp-perl
825 [14:45:34] <jelly> different from libnet-snmp-perl if that
exists at all
826 [14:45:57] <PETURBG> so it need to install libsnmp-perl
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828 [14:46:32] <PETURBG> and is it neccesary libnet-snmp-perl
829 [14:48:51] <jelly> I have no idea where libnet-snmp-perl
comes from, sorry
830 [14:49:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1151
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834 [14:51:28] <PETURBG> Process [1514] started:
/usr/sbin/amavis-services snmp-responder
835 [14:51:41] <PETURBG> Process [1514] exited
(/usr/sbin/amavis-services snmp-responder) after 0.0 s: exit 2
836 [14:51:51] <PETURBG> how to see it is working
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838 [14:52:52] *** Quits: coot (~coot@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
839 [14:52:53] <jelly> are you using Debian or Ubuntu, PETURBG?
840 [14:53:02] <PETURBG> ?
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842 [14:53:06] *** Joins: coot (~coot@replaced-ip )
843 [14:53:24] <jelly> I just noticed you're asking about
this in both #ubuntu and #debian channels
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847 [14:53:59] <PETURBG> i only use debian
848 [14:54:06] *** Quits: well_laid_lawn (~Jean-luc@replaced-ip ) (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
849 [14:54:37] <jelly> only ask in the right channel for your
distro -- different distros can have differences in behaviour, and
differences in what the optimal solution would be
850 [14:55:06] <jelly> and I see the "libnet-snmp-perl"
suggestion came from someone in #ubuntu
851 [14:55:32] *** Quits: Haudegen (~quassel@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Bin weg.)
852 [14:55:59] <PETURBG> jelly unknown what you comment.
853 [14:56:15] <PETURBG> jelly i follow this?:
replaced-url
854 [14:56:28] <jelly> [14:32:51] <PETURBG> nbusrone
/usr/sbin/amavisd-snmp-subagent
855 [14:56:28] <jelly> [14:32:56] <PETURBG>
amavisd-snmp-subagent[1333]: Can't locate NetSNMP/OID.pm
856 [14:56:42] <jelly> [14:38:18] <nbusrone> PETURBG : i am
not good at it but did you install libnet-snmp-perl
replaced-url
857 [14:56:44] <PETURBG> so there is second username
858 [14:57:07] <jelly> [14:35:37] <nbusrone> PETURBG : ?
which OS you are runnning ? [14:35:46] <PETURBG> ubuntu
[14:35:54] <PETURBG> 18
859 [14:57:14] <PETURBG> jelly dont lost time. do you know what
answer is.
860 [14:57:14] <jelly> so which is it, Ubuntu 18 or Debian
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863 [14:59:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1145
864 [14:59:53] * jelly goes to help someone who isn't actively
deceitful
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867 [15:00:41] <jelly> PETURBG, if you want my help, be honest
and provide true info in the future
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880 [15:08:24] <PETURBG> jelly i dont lie person like you. if you
dont want help dont help. but insult person is bad. I tell one time
and will not repeat.
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885 [15:09:59] *** Joins: Meli (~meli@replaced-ip )
886 [15:10:05] <jelly> PETURBG, I do want to help, and I do not
like when people say one OS in one channel second OS in second
channel. If that is not lying, I'll apologize.
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888 [15:11:40] *** Joins: ddsys (~ddsys@replaced-ip )
889 [15:12:06] <PETURBG> jelly unknown what you are comment.
890 [15:12:19] <PETURBG> someone honest person can comment what
is happening:
replaced-url
891 [15:13:36] <PETURBG> jelly i receive all day appologize from
company calling all day, i receive all day from peoples from streets
apologize... and all they are lie. so if every day preson receive
lie apologize what is results.
892 [15:14:23] <jelly> Ubuntu is not Debian. You were asking
about the same issue in #ubuntu and in #debian
893 [15:14:52] <jelly> PETURBG, do you have two amavis
installations, one on Debian, one on Ubuntu, with same problem?
894 [15:15:08] <PETURBG> jelly unknown what you ar comment. you
are blocked. you are trolling the same lie again and again.
895 [15:15:31] *** Quits: mirrorbird (~psutcliff@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
896 [15:15:48] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o jelly
897 [15:16:10] <Haohmaru> so long PETURBG
898 [15:16:42] *** Parts: PETURBG (2e1ad4d0@replaced-ip ) (requested by jelly (PETURBG))
899 [15:17:27] <jelly> I only ask they be honest, and would have
continued in the right channel. But play dumb... eh
900 [15:18:09] *** jelly sets mode: +b $a:PETURBG
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905 [15:19:14] <oxek> this is the first time I actually see op in
#debian
906 [15:19:49] <Haohmaru> aww
907 [15:20:13] *** ChanServ sets mode: -o jelly
908 [15:20:24] <Haohmaru> don't be shy jelly
909 [15:20:28] <oxek> I see ops are hiding amongst the rest of us
910 [15:20:45] <Haohmaru> oxek there's also aliens
911 [15:20:49] <Haohmaru> <spooky.jpg>
912 [15:20:53] <jelly> and dogs and cats
913 [15:20:54] <oxek> aliens are old news
914 [15:21:25] <oxek> plus you shouldn't use alien on debian
915 [15:21:29] <Haohmaru> no, these particular ones came
recently, they're pretty wtf-ish o_O
916 [15:21:45] *** Quits: dvs (~hibbard@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
917 [15:22:08] <EdePopede> do you behave differently when you see
ops around? do you treat them differently from other people? if you
can answer both questions with a NO then there's no need for
visible ops.
918 [15:22:17] <Haohmaru> jelly i wish the +r be changed to the
+q alternative ;P~
919 [15:23:03] <Haohmaru> wait till ChanServ and debhelper go
away, then <party.gif>
920 [15:24:09] <jelly> Haohmaru, I don't know if the
spammers are still too active for that, with +r at least the user
immediately sees what the problem is
921 [15:25:12] <Haohmaru> with +r it's kinda annoying if you
manually identify into NickServ and you have auto-rejoin
922 [15:25:58] <Haohmaru> i think hexchat and/or znc go dumb
then, and if i'm on enough +r channels i get excess flood
923 [15:26:09] <jelly> see if your client can use server password
for freenode; there is still a race condition, but it's
slightly better
924 [15:26:15] <Haohmaru> recently i got k-lined like that
925 [15:26:41] <jelly> hexchat used directly can do that; dunno
what I use for znc
926 [15:26:44] <Haohmaru> i *am* using a server password already
cuz i connect to znc
927 [15:27:00] <jelly> I mean for the connection from whatever to
freenode
928 [15:27:06] <Haohmaru> i use mIRC+hexchat simultaneously
connected to znc
929 [15:27:24] <jelly> connnection from hexchat to znc is
irrelevant, freenode doesn't see that
930 [15:27:27] <Haohmaru> anyway, since that k-line, i /part-ed
most +r channels
931 [15:27:32] <oxek> mirc is still around? Does it work in wine?
932 [15:27:42] <Haohmaru> mIRC is eternal
933 [15:28:15] <jelly> I tried to use hexchat native a month ago
when I was on windows, and ended up running an X server and Linux
hexchat instead
934 [15:28:17] *** Quits: coot (~coot@replaced-ip ) (Quit: coot)
935 [15:28:21] <Haohmaru> it "recently" dropped support
for win98 ;P~
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938 [15:28:56] <jelly> linux hexchat deals with hidpi on windows
much better than native windows app
939 [15:29:00] <Haohmaru> hexchat only annoys me
940 [15:29:33] *** Joins: Gerowen (~Gerowen@replaced-ip )
941 [15:29:46] <Haohmaru> default settings are not good, it does
/who # on join and other such crap
942 [15:30:10] <jelly> I have like 3-4 clients, phone, maybe
tablet, laptop, desktops at home and work, everything hexchat except
android devices
943 [15:30:51] <Haohmaru> on crapdroid i looked thru the
available IRC clients, found one that wasn't horrific, it had a
stupid name like yaiic or such
944 [15:31:42] <Haohmaru> that and Hacker's keyboard
945 [15:32:03] *** Quits: remy^ (~remy@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
946 [15:32:10] <Haohmaru> not because i'm a h4x0r but
because normal layout or gtfo ;P~
947 [15:33:00] <oxek> regarding android, I wish debian would
package scrcpy for buster-backports
948 [15:33:08] <Haohmaru> anyway, just put one vote for swapping
the +r for +q-blahblah
949 [15:33:21] *** Joins: remy^ (~remy@replaced-ip )
950 [15:33:53] <Haohmaru> most channels were on +r then switched
to +q
951 [15:34:01] <oxek> and one vote to not have +r nor +q, and
make me +o, I'll deal with all the spam ;)
952 [15:34:18] <Haohmaru> aww
953 [15:34:40] *** Quits: gryffus (~gryffus@replaced-ip ) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
954 [15:35:01] <oxek> (I don't really want +o, seems like a
lot of work)
955 [15:35:33] *** Quits: banisterfiend (~textual@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
956 [15:36:37] <Haohmaru> i know a trick: +b *!*@* +e $me
957 [15:36:43] <Haohmaru> works for any kind of spam ;P~
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961 [15:42:29] <oxek> lol
962 [15:42:39] <oxek> would be a lonely life though
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1000 [16:15:01] <Bushmaster> I am seeking a friend, who goes by
trek00
1001 [16:15:11] <Bushmaster> can anyone has seen him
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1006 [16:18:26] <jelly> dpkg, seen trek00
1007 [16:18:26] <dpkg> trek00
<~trek@dynamic-adsl-84-221-76-212.clienti.tiscali.it> was last
seen on IRC in channel #debian, 101d 19h 1m 14s ago, saying: 'i
mean with ipv4 address only but ipv6 enabled kernel'.
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1011 [16:19:37] <thorrent> hi all
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1014 [16:23:34] <thorrent> I'm not sure you can see my
comment :(
1015 [16:23:36] <Haohmaru> Bushmaster /msg NickServ info trek00
1016 [16:23:47] <Haohmaru> 4-ish weeks ago
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1021 [16:26:59] <jhutchins> Any recomendations for (live) music
recording hardware? USB input box, mic? Software?
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1028 [16:28:50] <jhutchins> thorrent: I don't see any
comments by you. Did you have a Debuan support question?
1029 [16:29:12] <jelly> thorrent, we can see it in this +r channel
just fine
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1031 [16:29:58] <jelly> jhutchins just pretends he didn't!
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1034 [16:32:43] <Haohmaru> jhutchins an adequate soundcard and
then audacity maybe?
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1041 [16:35:18] <jhutchins> Haohmaru: That might be enough to get
started.
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1043 [16:36:14] *** halvors1 is now known as halvors
1044 [16:36:18] <jhutchins> Hm, I actually have electrics that I
wouldn't have to mic...
1045 [16:37:05] <Haohmaru> there are audio interfaces with both
instrument/line inputs and mic inputs
1046 [16:37:47] <Haohmaru> which of them work "nice"
with linux - i don't know, afaik mine has supposedly a good
driver (envy24-based)
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1048 [16:38:13] <Haohmaru> there should be a pile of different
cards under that one driver alone
1049 [16:38:23] <Haohmaru> mine doesn't have mic inputs
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1057 [16:46:20] <jhutchins> This one looks pretty good:
replaced-url
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1059 [16:47:02] <jhutchins> Has interesting combined XLR 1/4"
inputs.
1060 [16:48:07] <Haohmaru> jhutchins no linux mentioned
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1062 [16:49:35] <genr8_> theyre usually class compliant, so unless
you need some kind of configuration program to run, then its gonna
still record audio
1063 [16:49:53] <Haohmaru> "usually" ?
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1065 [16:50:00] <Haohmaru> i'm skeptical
1066 [16:50:05] <Haohmaru> mine isn't class compliant
1067 [16:50:45] <genr8_> what is yours
1068 [16:50:59] <Haohmaru> m-audio delta 2496
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1070 [16:51:41] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o jelly
1071 [16:51:58] *** jelly sets mode: +b
*!drowsyivy@gateway/shell/tilde.team/*$##fyc
1072 [16:52:08] *** jelly sets mode: -b
*!drowsyivy@gateway/shell/tilde.team/x-uvwhimdzwsjqkxuc$##fyc
1073 [16:52:13] <jhutchins> That audiobox is 99.95 (out of stock
until Sept.)
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1075 [16:52:34] *** jelly sets mode: -o jelly
1076 [16:53:12] <Haohmaru> there are many sound/midi interfaces
for music/audio, but beware that most of them care for crapdows and
crApple OSes
1077 [16:53:12] <sgo11_> hi, what is the best way to install KDE
Plasma 5.19? I am running debian 10. It's not in the repo.
Thanks.
1078 [16:55:46] <jhutchins> Haohmaru: Well, like genr8_ said, if
it has USB audio out you don't need the fancy software.
1079 [16:56:03] <Haohmaru> does it?
1080 [16:56:09] <jhutchins> Linux has some pretty good audio
options.
1081 [16:56:26] <jhutchins> Haohmaru: It looks like the audiobox
does. If not, it goes back.
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1083 [16:57:01] <Haohmaru> jhutchins i'd ask the support guys
1084 [16:57:10] <genr8_> either way its not a debian question
1085 [16:57:13] <jhutchins> If they re-stock it, I might splurge
on the kit that has mic, cables, and headphones.
1086 [16:57:28] <jhutchins> Left my good headphones at work, they
still haven't shipped my stuff.
1087 [16:57:48] <jhutchins> Haohmaru: Good thought.
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1089 [16:59:45] <genr8_> whats the bot command to get the package
versions from testing/unstable for kde-standard ?
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1091 [16:59:58] *** Quits: gnufr33dom (~gnufr33do@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1092 [17:00:38] <jelly> /msg judd versions packagename or v
packagename
1093 [17:01:11] <jelly> will show versions from all still
supported releases if a package exists there
1094 [17:01:21] <jelly> ,v coreutils
1095 [17:01:22] <judd> Package: coreutils on amd64 -- jessie:
8.23-4; stretch: 8.26-3; buster: 8.30-3; bullseye: 8.30-3+b1; sid:
8.32-3
1096 [17:01:34] *** Quits: x0n (~x0n@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1097 [17:02:01] <jhutchins> No pre-sale support.
1098 [17:02:03] *** Quits: amlchief (~amlchief@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1099 [17:02:06] <jhutchins> Sorry, this is OT.
1100 [17:02:33] <jhutchins> (Thought I was in a different
channel.)
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1102 [17:02:58] <genr8_> that didnt exactly give the right version
for KDE i was expecting
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1105 [17:03:14] <genr8_> realizing idk the right package name now
either..
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1109 [17:05:06] <genr8_> ,v plasma-desktop
1110 [17:05:07] <judd> Package: plasma-desktop on amd64 -- jessie:
4:4.11.13-2; stretch: 4:5.8.6-1; buster: 4:5.14.5.1-1; bullseye:
4:5.17.5-3; sid: 4:5.17.5-3
1111 [17:06:00] <genr8_> there. KDE 5.17.5 is available. 5.19 is
not ready yet unless you compile it yourself which is a dumpster
fire.
1112 [17:06:21] <g0zzy> Getting very confused about VLC. When i
ssh to my Debian box from my phone i get a 'vlc command
prompt' . I'm able to use typed commands like pause,play,
seek etc. yet i see no mention of this in the docs. Only command
line *options* to vlc. Any ideas?
1113 [17:07:01] <genr8_> its a command line version of vlc, its a
normal thing.
1114 [17:08:01] <jelly> there's an (ex?) debian developer
packaging very new Plasma and very new KDE Apps for
testing/unstable, somewhere
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1117 [17:09:17] <jelly> genr8_, here. I have no idea how well his
packages are made. But you're on testing/unstable already so
you can take breakage and probably have backups. :-)
1118 [17:09:20] <jelly>
replaced-url
1119 [17:11:08] <g0zzy> genr8_: How is it invoked?
1120 [17:11:45] <genr8_> cvlc usually
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1124 [17:12:05] <oerheks> plasma 5.19 ... something about license
fee ?
replaced-url
1125 [17:12:12] <g0zzy> I don't get a prompt with cvlc. Just
no gui
1126 [17:12:25] <genr8_> I suppose if you have no X connected, it
might know that and revert back to command line
1127 [17:13:34] <g0zzy> Ah you mean if i _have_ got an X session,
then the prompt won't appear?
1128 [17:14:28] <genr8_> likely
1129 [17:14:39] <genr8_> its got a buncha alternative interfaces:
replaced-url
1130 [17:14:52] <g0zzy> It certainly would display why i get it
with the phone (no X) and not with my laptop (X). But then there
should be a way of forcing it
1131 [17:14:57] <genr8_> the regular GUI is the Qt one
1132 [17:15:18] <genr8_> theres for sure a way, i just dont use
that option
1133 [17:15:23] <genr8_> its documented somewhere
1134 [17:15:44] <g0zzy> Right thanks. You've given me a lead
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1138 [17:18:49] <genr8_> oerheks, unrelated/FUD.
1139 [17:19:42] *** Joins: noosanon (~user@replaced-ip )
1140 [17:20:11] <genr8_>
replaced-url
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1143 [17:22:35] <genr8_> thats why this organization exists, to
manage license sheit like this
1144 [17:23:51] <genr8_> nobody seems like they understand QT
license to begin with, dont break your brain over it. its handled
already.
1145 [17:23:59] * g0zzy discovers with some digging and thanks to genr8_
that to get a 'VLC prompt' you can do vlc -I rc
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1147 [17:24:57] <genr8_> yes, ty, now i can know the real command
for the thing i half-knew too ;p
1148 [17:25:42] <sgo11_> Plasma 5.19 looks pretty good to me.
replaced-url
1149 [17:26:07] <genr8_> he linked one <jelly>
replaced-url
1150 [17:26:20] <g0zzy> 'rc' == remote control
1151 [17:26:34] <genr8_> ya
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1153 [17:28:06] <genr8_> sgo11_, click the "see this
post" link. repos are hosted by opensuse but they're for
debian because this particular guy made them
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1158 [17:29:55] <genr8_> not sure why unstable is still on 5.17.5
from Feb 14 2020 if testing is also
1159 [17:29:59] <genr8_> they mustve fallen behind
1160 [17:30:19] <sgo11_> genr8_: thanks a lot. Due to the limited
of my English and the IRC UI, if nobody mentioned @myname, I
don't really know who is talking to who. :)
1161 [17:31:02] <genr8_> ok
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1165 [17:32:13] <sgo11_> that's why I missed the link. ^_^
thanks so much for letting me know.
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1172 [17:34:38] <jelly> KDE and Plasme have apparently been behind
because of missing build deps (version of Qt 5, and maybe others)
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1175 [17:36:17] <jelly> sgo11_, there is no build of Plasma 5.19
for Debian 10 that I know of. Those are only for testing and
unstable branches.
1176 [17:37:55] <Haohmaru> KDE? less memory than xfce?! really?!
1177 [17:38:21] <sgo11_> jelly: got it. thanks a lot. I am
checking the URL you posted. :)
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1179 [17:38:50] <Haohmaru> how much are we talking here? on lxde i
get like under 300MB when i log into the desktop, iirc
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1181 [17:39:20] <wrksx> On my disk the first partition is 1 1049kB
2097kB 1049kB bios_grub
1182 [17:39:49] <wrksx> I guess that's what the computer is
booting first ?
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1190 [17:43:47] <diogenes_> the fact tha KDE uses less memory than
Gnome or Xfce doesn't make it lighweight at all, it still needs
good GPU, kwin still uses a lot of resources (comparing to Xfce).
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1198 [17:51:03] <jhutchins> diogenes_: I'd be amazed if KDE
used less memory than xfce having used both.
1199 [17:51:36] <Haohmaru> same
1200 [17:52:12] <Haohmaru> i thought KDE is more like over 600MB
1201 [17:54:39] <jhutchins> Haohmaru: I suppose it depends on what
components you have loaded, but there aren't even as many
components available in XFCE.
1202 [17:55:10] <Haohmaru> i generally need programs, not
"components"
1203 [17:55:37] <Haohmaru> and i use lxde, so not much opinion on
xfce besides that it's acceptable too
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1205 [17:56:43] <jhutchins> Haohmaru: Well, KDE had a lot of
programs integrated with the OS and able to cooperate with each
other, like your email address book could support addresses to use
in kwrite.
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1207 [17:56:57] <jhutchins> xfce has some of that.
1208 [17:57:14] <diogenes_> jhutchins, i only wanted to point out
that people put stress on less memory usage mistakenly considering
that as a sign of lightweight DE and forgetting about CPU/GPU load.
1209 [17:57:28] <jhutchins> That's one of the things that was
so horrible about kde4, it had SO MANY MOVING PARTS!
1210 [17:58:13] <Haohmaru> meh
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1212 [17:58:22] <jhutchins> kmail was trying to run found
different databases on four different servers, and another database
was trying to index the whole computer including mounted network
shares.
1213 [17:59:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1157
1214 [17:59:59] <sgo11_> The story why I plan to use kde starts
from a photo viewer. I have spent a very long time to find a good
photo viewer. In the past, I always avoided trying kde apps. I
nearly tried all non-kde photo viewers. None of them feels good and
none of them supports webp animation. Today, I finally tried
"gwenview" and it supports webp animation out-of-box.
1215 [18:00:34] <Haohmaru> i like the lxde one
1216 [18:00:42] <sgo11_> Then, I found these two URLs:
replaced-url
1217 [18:00:44] *** Quits: fred1m (~quassel@replaced-ip##) (Quit: ##replaced-url
1218 [18:00:59] <Haohmaru> what i hate is most pdf viewers.. i
found a gud one.. qpdfview
1219 [18:01:44] <jhutchins> I use geegee, gimp, and imagemagick
(actually, the fork) and I think my wife uses gwenview, all on xfce.
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1221 [18:02:53] <sgo11_> I think gwenview is the only one which
supports webp animation in Linux world. I really tried all photo
viewers. I am sorry to skip kde apps in the past.
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1224 [18:04:56] <Haohmaru> i don't even know wut webp is
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1236 [18:15:22] <jhutchins>
replaced-url
1237 [18:15:27] <sgo11_> Many photos I got online these days are
webp. If I remembered correctly, it's a google chrome image
format.
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1240 [18:16:32] <jhutchins> 3x smaller than PNG.
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1244 [18:19:50] <wrksx> I have a boot issue, boot sequence hangs
when trying to boot from the disk
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1246 [18:20:15] <wrksx> I'm wondering if my bios_grub could
be corrupted
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1249 [18:20:28] <wrksx> is this possible to check the content of
it?
1250 [18:20:41] <wrksx> is it hard to regenerate?
1251 [18:20:53] <sney> !fixmbr
1252 [18:20:53] <dpkg> To reinstall <GRUB> boot to your
Debian install disk/live CD, switch to the other console (Alt-F2),
mount your root filesystem (mount -t ext4 /dev/whatever /target ;
mount --bind /dev /target/dev ; mount -t proc none /target/proc ;
mount -t sysfs none /target/sys), chroot into it (chroot /target),
run "mount /boot/efi" on EFI and "update-grub
&& grub-install /dev/whatever". See also <rescue
mode>, <dual boot guide>, <supergrub>.
1253 [18:22:37] <wrksx> what does that mean -> run "mount
/boot/efi" **on EFI**
1254 [18:22:44] <wrksx> thanks sney
1255 [18:22:51] *** Quits: Slashman (~Slash@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
1256 [18:24:03] <sney> wrksx: it means if debian is running in efi
mode, run 'mount /boot/efi'. bios/legacy users don't
need to do this
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1258 [18:24:46] <wrksx> sney: right. I would guess I'm not
using EFI but not sure, how could I check this?
1259 [18:25:11] <wrksx> It's a debian server on hardware
I've never seen and didn't configure the bios
1260 [18:25:48] <wrksx> but my fstab do not have anything about
/boot/efi
1261 [18:26:09] *** Parts: diogenes_ (~diogenes_@replaced-ip ) ("vergissmeinnicht")
1262 [18:26:14] <sney> most systems made in the past 5 years are
efi. you can check for the existence of /sys/firmware/efi, it
won't be there on a bios system
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1265 [18:27:21] <wrksx> sney: okay, so no firmware means not EFI
for sure I guess =)
1266 [18:28:28] <wrksx> sney: update-grub will write to /boot and
install-grub to my "mbr" partition?
1267 [18:28:42] <wrksx> I'm confused with the terminology
about gpt mbr and stuff
1268 [18:28:55] <wrksx> disks are on gpt partitioning
1269 [18:29:06] <sney> mbr isn't a partition, it's the
root sector of your disk. but otherwise yes.
1270 [18:29:39] <wrksx> so even with gpt you still call it mbr?
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1273 [18:30:20] <wrksx> fdisk shows that
1274 [18:30:23] <wrksx> Device Start End Sectors Size Type
1275 [18:30:37] <sney> mbr just stands for "master boot
record". it's the boot sector of the primary disk on your
system. every disk has a boot sector regardless of what partition
table type is used
1276 [18:30:41] <wrksx> - /dev/sda1 2048 4095 2048 1M BIOS boot
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1278 [18:30:47] <sney> don't paste to the channel please
1279 [18:30:56] <wrksx> sorry my mistake
1280 [18:31:27] <wrksx> so that sda1, is this the MBR?
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1282 [18:32:23] <sney> [10:29:06] <sney> mbr isn't a
partition, it's the root sector of your disk.
1283 [18:32:36] <sney> it's before the partitions.
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1285 [18:32:52] <wrksx> okay
1286 [18:33:31] <another> it lies in the first 512B of the disk
1287 [18:33:55] <wrksx> so install-grub is goin to write to the
MBR (first 512B), but not to the sda1 aka bios_grub?
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1289 [18:34:42] <sney> you seem confused
1290 [18:34:47] <wrksx> indeed
1291 [18:34:53] <wrksx> very confused
1292 [18:35:33] <sney> update-grub will generate the contents of
/boot/grub, then call grub-install which will write the bootloader
to the MBR.
1293 [18:35:40] <sney> this is how grub installs work on bios
systems.
1294 [18:35:49] <sney> there is no such thing as "sda1 aka
bios_grub"
1295 [18:36:25] <another> actually, there is
1296 [18:36:31] <wrksx> but I have it on my system
1297 [18:37:00] <sney> if you installed grub to /dev/sda1 instead
of /dev/sda that could explain why your system is not booting.
1298 [18:37:18] <another> GPT cleaned up a lot of the mess that
was DOS partitioning
1299 [18:37:21] <sney> another: not that I'm familiar with,
so you can take it from here if the standard that I just covered
doesn't work
1300 [18:37:47] <wrksx> sney: basically the system was working
fine
1301 [18:37:49] <mason> What's the overlap between
dpkg-reconfigure grub-foo (-efi-amd64 and pc) and update-grub?
1302 [18:38:03] <mason> Does the dpkg-reconfigure invoke
update-grub or grub-install?
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1304 [18:38:20] <wrksx> then I had a kernel update, no reboot,
then a network driver update (updated grub automatically) then next
reboot hangs
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1306 [18:38:38] <mason> I'm puzzling out some ordering issue
in my debootstrap-based install scripting, and doing it from inside
a chroot has some odd issues.
1307 [18:38:42] *** Joins: noosanon (~user@replaced-ip )
1308 [18:38:46] <mason> I need to track it down.
1309 [18:39:04] <sney> the grub package's postinst script
runs update-grub, which would also be the result of
dpkg-reconfigure, as well as anything else in the given grub
package's control scripts.
1310 [18:39:08] <another> in traditional dos partitioning, grub
would install stage 1 to mbr, stage 2 to /boot and stage 1.5 in the
unclaimed space between MBR and first partition
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1312 [18:39:34] <mason> sney: kk, ty
1313 [18:40:37] <another> in GPT it is forbidden to store data in
unpartitioned space
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1315 [18:41:06] <merethan_w> Hi all
1316 [18:41:18] <mason> another: And yet, this happens. I've
got an HBA that writes metadata to the end of the disk, trashing the
secondary GPT partition. \o/
1317 [18:41:25] <jelly> wrksx, does that tiny partition have a
filesystem on it?
1318 [18:41:33] <mason> s/partition/& table/
1319 [18:41:55] <merethan_w> Should I use scons as build system?
(Reason asking here is because distro packagers encounter a lot of
different build systems.)
1320 [18:42:26] <another> mason: ... great.
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1322 [18:42:49] <mason> another: I was excited. Debugging it was
interesting.
1323 [18:42:56] <jelly> mason, I read that as "I formatted a
disk from outside the hw raid and wasn't aware hw raid metadata
has to go _somewhere_" :-)
1324 [18:43:19] <mason> another: Even more exciting, it only did
this in UEFI mode. Legacy, it wouldn't smash the secondary
table.
1325 [18:44:07] <mason> jelly: That would be my suspicion if this
controller were doing hardware RAID, but it's passing through
plain disks, or so it says. I mean, clearly it's not quite
doing what it suggests.
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1327 [18:44:27] <jelly> perhaps a bit too plain.
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1329 [18:44:30] <mason> I did briefly have to fake out single-disk
RAID 0 disks on a controller, but I quickly replaced it.
1330 [18:44:32] *** BrianG61UK_ is now known as BrianG61UK
1331 [18:44:47] <mason> s/disks/arrays/
1332 [18:45:06] <sney> that sounds like defective hardware or
maybe a driver bug. HBAs shouldn't be adding junk to writes
1333 [18:45:21] <mason> Wholly agreed. First issue I've had
with SuperMicro.
1334 [18:45:42] <jelly> smells like LSI
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1336 [18:46:25] <sney> I think most of them are LSI on the board,
yeah. I've never had meaningful trouble with a LSI SAS but I
also haven't used any of the more recent models
1337 [18:46:28] <jelly> it's a good thing it only ruined
metadata and not data
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1339 [18:46:47] <mason> That, and my ability to sidestep it by
booting in legacy mode.
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1354 [18:59:28] <yanmaani> Is there any way to find packages
that'd free up space if you did 'sudo apt-get remove X
--purge && sudo apt-get autoremove --purge'?
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1357 [19:01:28] <sney> !deborphan
1358 [19:01:28] <dpkg> deborphan is a package that will tell you
what library packages you have installed that nothing's using.
If you want remove all packages use 'deborphan | xargs apt-get
-y remove --purge', or a nice tool to clean up grown debians.
replaced-url
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1360 [19:02:13] <yanmaani> No, I want the opposite. I want to find
what packages I should remove to make the maximum number of orphans.
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1363 [19:02:57] <yanmaani> If A depends on B and C, and D depends
on C and E, and G depends on X, Y, and Z, then I'd get 1 orphan
from removing A or D alone, but 3 from removing G
1364 [19:03:06] <petn-randall> yanmaani: Just all packages you
don't need anymore? Not sure how your approach is supposed to
work.
1365 [19:03:06] <sney> iirc there's another utility that
shows what suites/metapackages are taking up the most space, but I
can't remember the name
1366 [19:03:15] <sney> it might be in debian-goodies
1367 [19:03:25] <petn-randall> pigz shows only big packages, not
orphaned ones.
1368 [19:03:40] <sney> pigz, that was it, I think
1369 [19:03:42] <yanmaani> Is that with the size of unique
dependencies included?
1370 [19:03:59] <yanmaani> Because I'm trying to find
packages I installed for some one-off thing that had obscene amounts
of dependencies
1371 [19:04:01] <petn-randall> Wait, it was a different name.
1372 [19:04:16] <sney> debianpigs or something like that
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1374 [19:04:36] <petn-randall> yanmaani: Then I'd go through
the list of manually installed packages, and remove all you
don't need anymore.
1375 [19:04:54] <petn-randall> yanmaani: If you use aptitude,
it'll show you how much space is getting freed directly.
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1377 [19:05:33] <yanmaani> petn-randall: What's the command
for that? "get size of package + size of all unique deps"
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1380 [19:07:00] <petn-randall> yanmaani: Run `aptitude`, then
"View" -> "New Flat packages list", then
filter by manually installed packages by pressing l and then typing
"!~M ~i" as filter.
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1383 [19:07:20] <petn-randall> yanmaani: Any package you remove
with underscore will instantly show you how much space is freed.
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1385 [19:07:57] <yanmaani> But then I can't sort by space?
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1400 [19:15:00] <petn-randall> no.
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1403 [19:16:38] <yanmaani> is there any way to show the total size
of the deps of a package?
1404 [19:16:54] <yanmaani> Like if you do `apt-get remove
--dry-run thunar` it'll list a few packages that will be
removed
1405 [19:17:01] <greycat> I tried "apt-get -s purge ksh"
but it didn't show sizes so I gave up.
1406 [19:17:01] <Aristide> Hello yanmaani :)
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1408 [19:17:20] <Aristide> greycat: apt show yourpackage
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1410 [19:17:42] <Aristide> AH total size
1411 [19:17:43] <greycat> Aristide: the goal is "how much
space will I reclaim if I purge x which depends on y".
1412 [19:17:44] <Aristide> Sorry x)
1413 [19:17:56] <Aristide> I don't have see « total
size » x)
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1416 [19:18:35] <greycat> (with the implication that one is using
apt autoremove or an equivalent, so that y is also purged)
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1420 [19:20:08] <yanmaani> OK, here's an awful oneliner that
almost works
1421 [19:20:08] *** Joins: MikZyth (~MikZyth@replaced-ip )
1422 [19:20:13] <yanmaani> (aptitude search '~i!~M' -F
'%p' | while read i; do echo $(apt-get remove --dry-run
"$i" | tr '\n' ' ' | grep 'no
longer req.*autoremove' -o | wc -c) : $i; done) | sort -g
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1425 [19:20:56] <yanmaani> Using "length of package removal
list" as a proxy for "size"
1426 [19:21:00] <greycat> starting from aptitude search just
sounds like horrible pain to me
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1430 [19:22:16] <yanmaani> maybe so but it does the job
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1433 [19:22:52] <petn-randall> yanmaani: IMHO it's a bit
over-engineered. If you need disk space, just start removing things
you don't need. That's good practice from time to time,
anyway.
1434 [19:23:10] <yanmaani> what, that's far more effort
1435 [19:24:01] <petn-randall> I'd say it takes less time
than this discussion did.
1436 [19:24:08] <greycat> I agree with petn-randall
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1438 [19:24:58] <greycat> In the past, when disk space was
limited, I've followed the basic pattern of "list all the
installed packages in descending order by size, and remove the
biggest one I can find that isn't needed".
1439 [19:25:21] <yanmaani> Yeah, that's what I want to do
1440 [19:25:34] <yanmaani> Including the dependencies
1441 [19:25:40] <greycat> So do it. You're making life MUCH
too damned hard on yourself trying to cobble together this recursive
nightmare.
1442 [19:25:51] <yanmaani> if package X is 30 kb but has
dependencies of 300 MB, that approach won't find it
1443 [19:26:12] <greycat> See, you did not understand me. I said
what I meant. I did NOT try to carve out some nightmare recursion
script. I just removed SINGLE PACKAGES.
1444 [19:26:30] <greycat> You are making up a scenario that does
not exist.
1445 [19:26:48] <yanmaani> What do you mean, doesn't exist?
This is a thing that is a problem for me. I have that scenario all
the time.
1446 [19:27:13] <greycat> If there's a 300 MB dependency like
"gnome-tetris-bot-music" then you will see it when you
list the packages by size, and you'll remove that, and
it'll remove gnome-tetris-bot along with it, and voila.
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1448 [19:27:39] <yanmaani> What if it's split up among 300
small packages with innocuous names like libasdjuid-dev?
1449 [19:27:43] <greycat> What is the ACTUAL PACKAGE that you
think you can't spot and remove by yourself without a script to
identify it for you?
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1455 [19:28:31] <frotz47> yanmaani: removing a package does not
mean all the needed dependents will always be removed because
another package "x" needs to still have a same dependent
so what you want can not be done
1456 [19:28:49] <yanmaani> greycat: If I knew that, I
wouldn't need the script, now would I? This has happened to me
in the past.
1457 [19:29:04] <yanmaani> I realize I no longer need
"X", delete it, and whoops there goes 300M of deps with it
1458 [19:29:07] <beelzebuzz> :D
1459 [19:29:07] <greycat> So you THINK the scenario happens
"all the time" and yet somehow you cannot recall a SINGLE
instance of it.
1460 [19:29:21] <yanmaani> frotz47: Right, that's why
I'm looking for single dependents
1461 [19:29:44] <greycat> Whatever. It's another cultist.
"I have a tool I want to use and I'm looking for a problem
that will require it."
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1464 [19:29:56] <frotz47> apt-cache showpkg "x" will do
that
1465 [19:29:58] <yanmaani> I don't have a tool in mind
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1467 [19:31:32] <yanmaani> frotz47: Will that find unique deps?
1468 [19:31:44] <yanmaani> if A and B have 100% common deps, it
should come up blank for A/B alone
1469 [19:31:57] <frotz47> it shows reverse ones and direct ones
1470 [19:32:13] <frotz47> just nothing about sizes
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1502 [19:56:25] <yanmaani> How do I remove a package and replace
it with a newer version?
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1505 [19:57:34] <sney> install the newer version. dpkg will do the
upgrade for you
1506 [19:57:54] <yanmaani> These are separately marked packages,
not sure how to call them
1507 [19:57:59] <doubletwist> So if you needed a package
repo/channel management that supported both .deb and .rpm and it
COULDN'T be Katello, what would you use?
1508 [19:58:02] <yanmaani> I have clang-6.0 and I'd like to
install a newer version
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1510 [19:58:21] <greycat> *plonk*
1511 [19:58:31] <sney> compilers that have separate names for
separate versions can be installed side by side.
1512 [19:58:53] <sney> the "active" one (e.g. what runs
if you just run 'clang') is usually managed with
update-alternatives.
1513 [19:59:16] <yanmaani> Hm, so I just get the new one and have
it provide the dependencies, then remove the old one separately
1514 [19:59:21] <igserrano> How can I trace the running processes
when the system freezes?
1515 [19:59:30] <mason> doubletwist: There's no good answer.
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1517 [20:00:24] <doubletwist> that's dissapointing
1518 [20:00:26] <sney> doubletwist: package managers aren't
designed to be interoperable. anything you do with >1 package
manager on a single system is going to be a kludge. it's 2020,
why not containerize/virtualize separate debian and redhat
environments?
1519 [20:00:28] <petn-randall> igserrano: It really depends what
you mean with a frozen system.
1520 [20:00:47] <doubletwist> because not everything needs
containers
1521 [20:00:55] <petn-randall> igserrano: If your system literally
freezes and doesn't allow any in- or output, then it's
impossible.
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1523 [20:02:07] <doubletwist> Spacewalk has been working fine for
our *EL based systems (mirroring repos, promoting channels through
dev/test/prod). But we need to add some debian-based systems now and
I need something to support the same functionality for debian repo
mirrors. I'd prefer something that can do both rather than 2
separate systems.
1524 [20:02:11] *** Quits: careta (~careta@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1525 [20:02:50] <doubletwist> Katello can but I have other serious
issues with Katello in that I can't get it to work and
it's got major incompatibilities with oru system (can't
even install if a salt minion is installed)
1526 [20:03:56] <mason> doubletwist: Spacewalk has been deprecated
now.
1527 [20:03:57] <petn-randall> doubletwist: spacewalk has only
limited support for Debian, so there's not much we can do about
that.
1528 [20:04:07] <doubletwist> I know. that's why I'm
looking for an alternative
1529 [20:04:29] <mason> doubletwist: I did the same search since I
tend to run a number of systems. It's a space waiting to be
filled.
1530 [20:04:43] <petn-randall> doubletwist: ansible/chef/puppet?
1531 [20:05:23] <doubletwist> petn-randall: those are config
management. I already use saltstack. I need a replacement for
Spacewalk (package repo mirroring and package channel lifecycle)
1532 [20:05:43] <mason> doubletwist: Someone's going to have
to write a new one for the purpose.
1533 [20:06:11] <mason> I personally think it would be pretty
worthwhile, but I haven't had time or inclination to tackle it
as yet.
1534 [20:06:26] <doubletwist> mason: Yeah. Supposedly that's
Katello but after a dozen attempts over 2 years, I have yet to be
able to successfully get ANY "theforeman" related system
to work in even the most basica capacity.
1535 [20:06:39] <igserrano> petn-randall: My system freezes
completely, I can only exit by shutdown the hardware. So, how can I
identify the problem?
1536 [20:07:34] <igserrano> I used Gnome 3, but now with cinnamon
I am facing the same issues
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1538 [20:09:37] <petn-randall> Ah, maybe I don't fully
understand the scope of spacewalk. I guess for Debian(-based) OSes
you could use something like mini-dinstall for managing private
repos.
1539 [20:09:49] *** Quits: lead_pipe23 (~Lead@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1540 [20:09:51] <mason> igserrano:
replaced-url
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1542 [20:10:52] <mason> igserrano: Oh, heh, looks like
there's a netconsole package shipped. That'd be a good
start.
1543 [20:10:59] <mason>
replaced-url
1544 [20:11:10] <petn-randall> igserrano: I'd try to log in
remotely via ssh or switch consoles via ctrl+alt+F3. It both fails,
you have a true freeze and won't be able to debug it that way.
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1546 [20:13:10] <igserrano> Thanks
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1560 [20:32:06] <davidv7_> when I log in with ssh, do the contents
of .profile execute? They should right?
1561 [20:32:41] <greycat> Yes, assuming you just do "ssh
user@host" and not "ssh user@host some command". And
assuming your shell is bash, or some other Bourne family shell.
1562 [20:33:09] <greycat> And assuming you don't have a
~/.bash_profile or ~/.bash_login file.
1563 [20:33:15] <davidv7_> because i added a simple echo
".profile got executed"
1564 [20:33:19] <davidv7_> and nothing got printed out
1565 [20:33:43] <greycat> Go over the details, one by one. What
command did you actually type?
1566 [20:34:08] <davidv7_> ssh user@host
1567 [20:34:45] <greycat> what's your login shell on that
system? The last field of "getent passwd $LOGNAME"
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1569 [20:35:05] <davidv7_> bin bash
1570 [20:35:13] <greycat> ls -l .profile .bash_profile .bash_login
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1572 [20:35:54] <davidv7_> .profile exists, bash_profile doesnt,
and bash_login doesn't
1573 [20:38:00] <davidv7_> wait a reboot worked
1574 [20:38:05] <davidv7_> im on the right track.
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1581 [20:41:57] <davidv7_> if it runs with a command, the .profile
doesn't execute?
1582 [20:41:58] *** Joins: uvolmer (~uvolmer@replaced-ip )
1583 [20:42:02] <davidv7_> i mean, i guess it doesn't i just
tried it
1584 [20:42:42] <greycat> It was in the first thing I said.
1585 [20:43:15] <mason> davidv7_: "man bash" and read
"INVOCATION"
1586 [20:44:11] *** Joins: mirrorbird (~psutcliff@replaced-ip )
1587 [20:44:13] <davidv7_> ok so it's just /etc/profile that
gets launched
1588 [20:44:30] <greycat> Wrong.
1589 [20:44:59] <greycat> But I feel like I'm being trolled,
so ... this isn't likely to last much longer.
1590 [20:45:05] <davidv7_> you're not
1591 [20:47:56] <davidv7_> unless we're counting BASH_ENV im
not seeing anything else in the man page
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1604 [21:02:25] <mason> davidv7_: Did you read the INVOCATION
section?
1605 [21:02:55] *** Joins: kupi (uid212005@replaced-ip )
1606 [21:03:03] <mason> davidv7_: Rather, let me rephrase. Go read
it, as it answers your questions.
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1612 [21:06:34] <greycat> He's too busy giving vague,
inaccurate paraphrases of what he did, instead of showing what
he's actually doing, to read documentation.
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1616 [21:10:02] <mason> Admittedly, a lot of documentation is so
*dry*.
1617 [21:11:12] <greycat> True. But I told him step by step what
to look for, and if he had specific questions, we could answer
those.
1618 [21:11:31] <greycat> Incredibly false statements like
"it reads /etc/profile but not .profile" are not helpful
in any way.
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1623 [21:20:28] <yanmaani> is `apt-get dist-upgrade --autoremove
--purge` safe?
1624 [21:21:31] *** Joins: dethos (~dethos@replaced-ip )
1625 [21:22:28] <davidv7_> "dry" is not the word
i'd use, it's ass if you're not looking up stuff you
already understand. like what does:
replaced-url
1626 [21:22:48] <davidv7_> i've read that part like 3 times,
and I don't think you understand that it's not something
that just click instantly
1627 [21:22:51] *** Quits: platvoeten (~platvoete@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1628 [21:23:09] <sney> yanmaani: basically, just make sure you
read the whole list of what apt plans to do before accepting so you
don't get any surprises.
1629 [21:23:37] *** Quits: captSamIngram (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip ) (Quit: captSamIngram)
1630 [21:24:17] <greycat> The first thing you need to know about
/etc/bash.bashrc is that it's abnormal. It's a thing that
Debian hacked into its versions of bash. Normally no such global
file is read.
1631 [21:25:05] <greycat> The second thing you need to know about
NON-login shells with ssh is that Deian also hacked its versions of
bash to do the ssh trick, whereby it tries to determine that your
shell is a non-login shell invoked by sshd, and in that case, it
will read the user's .bashrc file, which is NOT NORMAL. But
Debian does it.
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1634 [21:25:38] <greycat> But if you had a SPECIFIC question and
if you showed what you ACTUALLY did, then there are people here who
could answer the question.
1635 [21:25:58] <davidv7_> okay, i'm putting it into context
1636 [21:26:54] <greycat> If you were to compile bash yourself
from gnu.org sources without any Debian patches, you would not have
any /etc/bash.bashrc type files, and you would not get the confusing
ssh trick where it reads .bashrc unexpectedly.
1637 [21:27:43] <davidv7_> I'm running a binary command from
a source computer( openSUSE tumbleweed desktop), the command is
nix-copy-closure, which, so you don't have to read up about it,
runs an ssh command with arguments. The command it runs on the
TARGET computer, needs to have a shell script sourced before hand,
so it knows where to look for the binaries.
1638 [21:27:44] *** Joins: mnemonic (~semeion@replaced-ip )
1639 [21:28:17] <greycat> where's the Debian part?
1640 [21:28:18] <davidv7_> when i run that command, the shell
script doesn't get sourced in time
1641 [21:28:22] <davidv7_> the target is the debian
1642 [21:28:45] <davidv7_> so ssh user@host command -> command
doesnt exist
1643 [21:28:58] <davidv7_> because the command needs to be sourced
before that gets executed
1644 [21:29:15] <greycat> You can source the necessary crap from
~user/.bashrc on the Debian host because of the ssh non-login shell
trick that Debian hacked in.
1645 [21:29:19] <dasher00> I always thought the files are used by
different types of login shells.
1646 [21:30:29] <davidv7_> sourcing it in .bashrc is the first
thing i tried, and it didn't work
1647 [21:30:29] <dasher00> ".bash_profile is read and
executed when Bash is invoked as an interactive login shell, while
.bashrc is executed for an interactive non-login shell.",
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1650 [21:31:03] <davidv7_> then i tried with .bash_profile ->
reboot, removed the bash_profile, and tried /etc/profile
1651 [21:31:19] <greycat> When you run "ssh user@host
somecommand", bash is not supposed to read ANY FILES from the
user's directory or from /etc. None. But Debian hacked it so
that it does. Although who knwows, maybe they changed it again.
1652 [21:32:01] *** Quits: deltanedas (~deltaneda@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1653 [21:32:20] <greycat>
replaced-url
1654 [21:32:27] <greycat> It still works.
1655 [21:32:28] *** Quits: swift110_ (~swift110@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1656 [21:32:48] <davidv7_> the plot thickens
1657 [21:32:54] <davidv7_> :/
1658 [21:33:08] <dasher00> yeah but the command via ssh will be
the "non-interactive" so it depends and afaik quite often
default shell is /bin/sh not /bin/bash
1659 [21:33:16] <greycat> As I said: Debian's bash is hacked
to read the user's .bashrc when invoked as a child of sshd even
though it's not an interactive shell.
1660 [21:33:42] <greycat> dasher00: the user account in question
must be correctly configured for the job at hand, which in this case
will include setting its login shell to bash.
1661 [21:34:46] <greycat> (Don't you just love how the
original question was a complete fabrication? I love that SO much.)
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1665 [21:38:40] <yanmaani> How can apt run with 0.0B of space?
Does it pre-allocate?
1666 [21:39:00] <f8e4> hi, what is simple paint windows like for
debian? gimp is f*** usability
1667 [21:39:01] <sney> root has some reserved disk space
1668 [21:39:23] <yanmaani> f8e4: There's krita, but it may
not be what you want
1669 [21:39:26] <diogenes_> sney, gpaint?
1670 [21:39:30] <Xunile> Hi all, anyone available for a helping
hand ? Got a clean Debian 10 system, setup as a host and 1 KVM
guest. Problem is guest can only communicate with host but
can't reach anything else. If any veteran around i'm
willing to provide a fair fee for your time to help troubleshoot it.
Probably need some one good with networking / routing and KVM.
It's in routed mode so not bridging to avoid MAC issues in the
DC. Thank you
1671 [21:39:39] <diogenes_> sorry f8e4 gpaint
1672 [21:40:22] *** Joins: lead_pipe23 (~Lead@replaced-ip )
1673 [21:40:29] <sney> Xunile: you don't need to offer people
money in this channel. and you probably just need to set up nat with
your hypervisor, whichever one you're using. There's
probably a manual or howto
1674 [21:40:30] *** Joins: deltanedas (~deltaneda@replaced-ip )
1675 [21:40:52] <yanmaani> ah shit it got no space left on device,
even though it said it should be good
1676 [21:41:31] <f8e4> diogenes_ oh yes, ty
1677 [21:42:07] *** Joins: JohnDoh (~jeff@replaced-ip )
1678 [21:43:03] <magyar> hi, I'm trying to upgrade stretch to
buster and getting these errors >>
replaced-url
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1682 [21:45:21] <sney> magyar: is that what happens when you run
'apt full-upgrade'?
1683 [21:46:05] *** Joins: evilbug (~evilbug@replaced-ip )
1684 [21:46:07] <Xunile> sney, thank you, i've been
struggling for a while with it and life is not making it easier on
other parts :( I currently don't have NAT setup to avoid using
the prepackaged libvirt network setup. Just though simple routing
logic would work in interfaces.
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1687 [21:47:39] <Xunile> sney, the section "Routed
(brouter)" of this link shows the setup for interfaces:
replaced-url
1688 [21:47:49] <sney> your hypervisor may also have a bridging
option so you don't need a separate network segment between
host and guest
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1692 [21:49:12] <sney> and if this is a hosting provider-specific
setup, then you should be talking to them for support.
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1695 [21:50:08] <magyar> sney: apt-get update && apt-get
upgrade it never gets to apt full-updrade
1696 [21:50:29] <sney> magyar: try apt full-upgrade.
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1699 [21:51:38] <chr0no2> cheers :D
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1703 [21:52:53] <magyar> sney: I get this error >>
replaced-url
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1706 [21:53:42] <sney> magyar: please pastebin your sources.list
and the output of 'apt policy'
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1710 [21:56:48] <greycat> according to judd, apache2-bin on
stretch doesn't depend on libcurl* at all, and the buster
version depends on libcurl4 instead
1711 [21:58:25] *** Quits: luuuciano_ (~luuuciano@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1712 [21:58:26] <magyar> sney:
replaced-url
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1717 [22:00:15] <magyar> my apache version is 2.4.43-1~bpo9+1
1718 [22:00:22] <greycat> Ahhh, backports. Remove it.
1719 [22:00:31] <magyar> remove apache ?
1720 [22:00:34] <greycat> Don't purge it. Just remove.
1721 [22:00:40] <sney> you can install it again once the upgrade
is done
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1723 [22:00:52] <magyar> got you, let me try that
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1734 [22:06:30] <magyar> so backports is not something that should
be used
1735 [22:06:32] <magyar> ?
1736 [22:06:53] <greycat> Backports are fine, but when you do a
release upgrade, they may break things, so you may have to remove
them first.
1737 [22:07:16] *** Joins: yonder (~yonder@replaced-ip )
1738 [22:07:38] <greycat> Hopefully, the functionality you were
looking for in the backport will be present in the regular stable
version of the package, so you won't have to do a backport
again.
1739 [22:10:50] <CyberManifest> backports are confusing,
"back" seems regregression instead of upstream
1740 [22:11:05] <CyberManifest> feels old
1741 [22:11:28] <greycat> It's a backward port of a future
release's package to a past release.
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1743 [22:12:07] <greycat> In this case, he was running on stretch,
but wanted an apache from buster-as-testing, so he used a backport,
from a time before buster was released. Hence the weird dependency.
1744 [22:12:27] <CyberManifest> greycat: yeah, but the terminology
isn't intuitive IMHO
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1763 [22:27:02] <oxek> I know I can prevent an application from
updating by doing "apt-mark hold PACKAGE". But this
prevents updating indefinitely. What is an easy way of
'skipping' the currently offered upgrade, and only offer
an upgrade again once an even newer version of a package is
available?
1764 [22:27:04] *** Quits: foul_owl_ (~foul_owl@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1765 [22:27:11] <oxek> do I need to write a whole pinning.pref
file for it?
1766 [22:27:22] <oxek> or is there a simple command just like
"apt-mark hold"?
1767 [22:27:32] <greycat> undo the hold when you feel it's
safe
1768 [22:27:46] <oxek> greycat: that works, but it means I need to
remember I created that hold
1769 [22:28:08] <oxek> (yes, I know apt shows x packages held
back)
1770 [22:28:11] <greycat> you'll be told that a package is
held, every time you do an apt update, right?
1771 [22:28:25] <oxek> yeah, but some packages I want to be held
indefinitely
1772 [22:28:40] <oxek> for those I already use 'apt-mark
hold'
1773 [22:28:58] <oxek> it's not a problem if a solution does
not exist yet, I was just wondering if I missed anything
1774 [22:29:48] <nkuttler> i would never want a held package to be
upgraded automatically
1775 [22:30:15] <oxek> nkuttler: same, but that's not what I
am describing
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1779 [22:32:40] <oxek> the scenario is like this. I have app
version 1.0 installed. 1.1 is offered, but I know it contains a
breaking bug. So I want to stop being offered this broken version,
and only be offered a version 1.2, where I can once again decide if
I install it or not.
1780 [22:32:54] *** Quits: Jade_NL (~JadeNL@replaced-ip ) (Quit: leaving)
1781 [22:33:20] <sney> there isn't a way to do that
automatically afaik but the information is available so it's
scriptable
1782 [22:33:23] <oxek> if I use 'apt-mark hold', it
means I will never be offered upgrades again, including for version
1.2, 1.3, etc.
1783 [22:33:32] <nkuttler> oxek: so you just want to see *if*
there was a new version of the package?
1784 [22:33:52] <oxek> nkuttler: yeah, whenever I do 'apt
update'
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1786 [22:34:40] <nkuttler> i see. sounds like a fairly trivial
script to write to me, but i have a wrapper for upgrading anyway
1787 [22:35:07] <oxek> I know I can work around all this by
creating a specific file with pinning instructions that contain the
exact broken version. However, that is a lot more work than
'apt-mark hold', so I was wondering if something as easy
as 'apt-mark hold' already exists for this situation.
1788 [22:35:34] <nkuttler> the easy solution is probably to use
stable
1789 [22:35:36] <oxek> 'apt-mark hold-this-version
PACKAGE'
1790 [22:35:57] <oxek> nkuttler: this is more of a question
regarding 'apt' functionality rather than debian I guess
1791 [22:36:14] <oxek> I use debian, but not all software is
available in debian
1792 [22:36:26] <oxek> s/debian/debian-stable/
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1794 [22:37:31] <ryouma> doesn't pinning (at least with
apt-get and aptitude) allow for excluding specific versions?
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1797 [22:39:12] <oxek> ryouma: it does, but it means I need to
manually create a specific pinning file with instructions
1798 [22:39:50] <ryouma> oh you said that
1799 [22:39:55] <oxek> it's a tedious task, and it's
something that must have crossed someone's mind already to
improve upon (just like creating apt-mark hold instead of some echo
dpkg setselections).
1800 [22:40:20] <oxek> so I did a search online and did not come
across anything like that, and am thus wondering if I missed
something obvious
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1805 [22:42:41] <ryouma> i think some of this stuff is almost ad
hoc, or a bit crufty. apt is new.
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1807 [22:42:46] <ryouma> (1)
1808 [22:42:57] <ryouma> (or 8, whatever)
1809 [22:43:35] <sney> it wouldn't take much to have a script
that checked apt policy for a given package and sent an email when a
certain minimum version is available, or removed the hold
automatically etc
1810 [22:43:47] <greycat> I can't imagine it's a
*common* need. If you're holding a package, it's usually
because you're depending on a specific feature/bug of the old
version that newer versions have permanently abandoned. You
wouldn't want to just try again when foo-1.2-2 is released
which fixes a minor documentation bug in foo-1.2-1.
1811 [22:44:48] <greycat> The other case I can imagine doing
something like this is if a security update for foo has an
accidental bug. In that case, the security team apologizes and
releases the next version in a few hours or a day. So you won't
even need to keep the hold in place for long.
1812 [22:45:27] <oxek> greycat: you are correct, and the issue is
that I use 'apt update' to inform me that newer packages
exist - I don't manually check on some website that newer
versions exist
1813 [22:45:40] <oxek> and I know myself - I am very likely to
forget about having places this hold
1814 [22:45:47] <greycat> so you're one of those filthy
#debian-next people?
1815 [22:45:56] <oxek> nope, am banned from oftc
1816 [22:46:01] <greycat> *plonk*
1817 [22:46:03] <oxek> (not my fault, just my IP)
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1819 [22:47:17] <oxek> thank you for helping, and confirming that
I have not missed something obvious. I'll do my workaround.
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1821 [22:47:53] <ryouma> iiuc i think your desire is reasonable
but has perhaps been relegated to pinning, and as a solution exists,
nobody has thought to make it more non-file-based
1822 [22:48:03] <oxek> (if only oftc had sasl, then it could let
people with registered accounts connect from banned IP addresses)
1823 [22:49:14] <oxek> I might make a script that parses 'apt
list --upgradable' to extract package name and version and put
a pin on it
1824 [22:49:35] <oxek> I might even call it
'apt-holdthisversion PACKAGE' :)
1825 [22:49:36] <ryouma> pinning is pretty complex (and i am not
sure if it matches the man page, or did when i used it ()and i
stopped using it by moving to stable
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1828 [22:52:10] <jhutchins> Isn't there a way to contact the
ops about a ban? oxek can't be the only one with this problem.
1829 [22:52:48] <oxek> jhutchins: they know about it, I don't
contest it - I'm using a VPN, which shares the IP with many
users, and it's very likely some users did something bad to
oftc
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1832 [22:54:40] <oxek> it's an ok solution to their
problem... and if they implemented SASL then they could still let
good users through
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1834 [22:55:10] <oxek> btw I have the same problem with debian
wiki - I am banned on it too
1835 [22:55:18] <oxek> 403 FORBIDDEN
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1837 [22:58:05] <ningu> where are dpkg configuration options
stored? like when you do dpkg-reconfigure to reset them, where are
they saved?
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1839 [22:58:48] <ningu> ok I see, it uses debconf
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1842 [23:01:32] <beelzebuzz> anyone mind giving me the buster
output of "lsb_release -cs"? would be appreciated
1843 [23:03:34] <beelzebuzz> assuming it's just
"buster"
1844 [23:03:37] <oxek> beelzebuzz: yes
1845 [23:03:40] <oxek> just buster
1846 [23:03:54] <beelzebuzz> thanks
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1849 [23:04:20] <oxek> beelzebuzz: whatever you're doing,
probably better to parse /etc/os-release
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1854 [23:06:33] <beelzebuzz> i'm on arch atm but trying to
chop at a debian script. just wasn't sure if that -cs flag was
saying something else
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1856 [23:08:01] <MikeDebian> Anyone familiar with linux bonding
mode 4 (LACP: 802.3ad) ?
1857 [23:08:36] <oxek> beelzebuzz: The issue is that lsb_release
is on its way out
1858 [23:08:49] <beelzebuzz> that's fine
1859 [23:09:17] <beelzebuzz> not my fault other people are still
using it to script stuff :D
1860 [23:09:37] <oxek> let them know
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1865 [23:17:15] <oxek> this is how I solved my pinning problem
replaced-url
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1873 [23:25:04] <oxek> will see if it works as I think once a
newer version comes out
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1880 [23:34:02] <jhutchins> MikeDebian: I just saw something about
eperimental two-channel tcp/ip.
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