Realtime Nick Name Ticker of #debian at freenode (ICQ IRC service)

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4[00:03:42] <permalink> hi. i try to hadren some small servers . do you think it's enough if i change the ssh port and accept only pubkey auth ? should i also add some rules in iptables ?
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26[00:19:08] <craftyguy> is the linux-image-amd64 package supposed to generate an initrd as well?
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29[00:19:43] <craftyguy> it currently seems to only install the kernel to /boot, and *not* create an initrd for it
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81[00:53:45] <awal1> what is the logical/normal interval between command execution?
82[00:54:38] <awal1> not sure if the system is related or just a hardware concern
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85[00:55:46] <ksk> awal1: you mean in the cpu, shifting bits and stuff? or your bash running a bash script? eh?
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87[00:57:22] <awal1> if I press successively Super-f , Super-g , Super-c for launch , say, firefox, guake, chromium, I notice that my openbox delays the effective execution of those successive commands, like 2 seconds or so between each one
88[00:57:24] <awal1> ksk
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90[00:58:29] <ksk> so, you are saying, if you press many switches, things tend to start slower?
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92[00:58:37] <ksk> s/switches/buttons
93[00:58:51] <awal1> yeah
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95[00:59:15] <awal1> by switches you mean keyboard shortcuts, i guess
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97[01:00:07] <awal1> well, delay almost happens at first run, first time programs are started
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105[01:02:27] <ksk> ehm. computers work that way. like when you boot up, debian starts. then you want to start a browser, which gets executed and its program-data is loaded from the disk.
106[01:02:41] <awal1> ksk, being more concrete thinking about all that, why if I start firefox first time delay is a bit long , 3/5 seconds, but if if I close it and I launch it again, launch process is almost instantaneous
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108[01:03:00] <awal1> less than 2 seconds
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110[01:03:12] <ksk> stuff that is running is also saved in ram, and also stuff that was used recently, should no other apps need the ram
111[01:04:02] <awal1> that is the idea probably yeah
112[01:04:05] <ksk> so if you just close your browser, wait 2s and start it again, (most of) the programm will still be in ram and does not need to be read from disk
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114[01:04:18] <ksk> also, not a debian question, but welcome to computers ;)
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116[01:04:29] <ksk> you might find the debian handbook handy
117[01:04:38] <awal1> ksk, debian?
118[01:04:43] <awal1> what is that?
119[01:04:46] <awal1> :P
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122[01:06:09] <awal1> not sure what I should look for for understand all that; I mean executable in usr bin vs ram or I don' 't know what exactly
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126[01:07:40] <awal1> I noticed that first launch is only slow (a few seconds, anyway) after a shutdown; login out from x doesn't affect delay
127[01:08:04] <awal1> first launch of a given app
128[01:08:35] <ksk> awal1: replaced-url
129[01:08:45] <ksk> not really your "problem", but it explains linux disk caching at a low level
130[01:09:56] <ksk> or, maybe it does not really explain it. you should maybe then grab a book about how computers work.
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132[01:10:12] <ksk> or maybe a booklet.
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135[01:11:19] <somiaj> I like linux caching, gives a reason to like to have extra ram on your system. (:
136[01:11:48] <somiaj> well is yet another, also makes it nice for files that get read or written to alot (saves hd wear)
137[01:12:25] <somiaj> I recall seeing an example where at boot up, someone cached some of their most used files (like a browser), so by teh time you login to xorg, lauching firefox is quick.
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139[01:12:42] <awal1> ksk, I don't have a problem; just trying to understand, or be pointed in the right direction, for understand why firefox, for example, lates like 10 seconds to launch when executed the first time but less than 3 seconds when second or more execution
140[01:12:52] <awal1> ^ ff just an example
141[01:13:08] <ksk> I tried to explain that to you during our conversation.
142[01:13:42] <ksk> with words like stuff to not make it complicated (and because im lazy of course)
143[01:13:42] <bites> awal1: replaced-url
144[01:14:41] <bites> linux writes file blocks to page cache after accessing them so the second read becomes quicker.
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147[01:15:14] <awal1> ^ nice explanation :P
148[01:15:38] <awal1> ok, ksk, bites, thanks; now I know what I should searchengine
149[01:15:45] <bites> and it's completely transparent for users and applications.
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151[01:15:52] <bites> no problem.
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157[01:17:47] <somiaj> replaced-url
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159[01:18:35] <somiaj> though here I'm thinking of just precaching things like firefox and the likes (most things will get cahced by default)
160[01:19:48] <awal1> ,v vmtouch
161[01:19:49] <judd> Package: vmtouch on amd64 -- buster: 1.3.0-1; sid: 1.3.0-1
162[01:20:21] <awal1> that is available in debian, good, somiaj
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164[01:21:23] <somiaj> yea, I wouldn't over use it, as it coudl slow down your boot (the reading takes time no matter when you do it), but maybe near the end you can start prechacing files that you know y ou will most likely use at some point)
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170[01:23:19] <ksk> iirc windows and OSX been doing that for a while, to make things apear faster.
171[01:23:28] <somiaj> yup
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174[01:24:09] <somiaj> I recally this from some demo shwoing that linux could 'load fast' in comparision to windows by precaching files too.
175[01:24:15] <ksk> also "Im totally not woken up from sleep yet, but I show you this nice password field already" thing :D
176[01:24:21] <somiaj> and by load fast they meant time from clicking icon to app running.
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180[01:25:57] <somiaj> though I belive windows did at the time load the program into memory during the boot (not actually using a filesystem cache) but the idea is similar.
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183[01:27:39] <bites> interesting. maybe write a systemd unit so it runs after the dm or even after user login.
184[01:27:58] <tw> what would you do with it? preload your most-run apps?
185[01:29:21] <somiaj> well the tool can do other things, like just give you info about your cache if your intersted, but that is one thing you could do.
186[01:29:40] <somiaj> Just depends on if you want to not wait as long the first time you open some app each time you boot
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191[01:31:55] <tw> It still has to do the reads, it might be before you call the app or after. And if you're going to do the reads, I feel like you might as well exec the app minimized.
192[01:31:58] <somiaj> Though a sesson manager is probably a more marture approach for such a thing, just depends on if you want to start loadign stuff you use into memeory before you login and start using stuff.
193[01:32:26] <somiaj> yea, it only shifts the time to boot, so slower boot time, faster app time, hence why it probably dosen't get used, but as a novelty you could.
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197[01:34:05] <bites> i'm glad SSDs exist. ^^
198[01:34:33] <somiaj> Yup
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203[01:39:32] <tw> it makes sense if you're using a hybrid drive.
204[01:40:21] <tw> then you can use high level metadata to determine what to stick in the drive cache instead of just block LRU.
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207[01:42:06] <bites> a neural network that decides which files to cache. ^^
208[01:42:15] <bites> maybe in kernel 5 :>
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226[01:53:58] <qifan> hi
227[01:54:11] <qifan> how do i enable 3D grafics? ive installed and downloaded steam CSGO... 2x RX580's in crossfire but 20 fps.. i think its a bit low
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229[01:55:13] <qifan> windows give 300 fps
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307[02:32:22] <dodobrain> hi all, what exactly is full disk encryption? does this mean i also have /bot encrypted?
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310[02:34:08] <Guest67> hello. im having a .deb package built for wheezy which doesnt has any deps or rec. os stretch backwards compaitible so i can install it?
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313[02:38:03] <bites> dodobrain: full disk encryption would mean encrypted /boot. the debian installer doesn't offer that feature yet.
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317[02:39:20] <tw> what would you use instead, unencrypted efi boot partition, like windows?
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321[02:39:41] <tw> *instead of unencrypted /boot
322[02:39:57] <LeoNerd> Personally, I don't really see a point in encrypting the _entire_ disk; just do /home. And maybe /var if you're paranoid
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325[02:40:32] <LeoNerd> If you're running Debian then the OS, kernel, etc... are all open public knowledge anyway.. why bother encrypting that on the disk?
326[02:41:21] <tw> it makes evil maid attacks harder because the disk is not easily mutable.
327[02:41:22] <bites> to prevent tampering.
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331[02:41:59] <Guest67> i prefer file encryption
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334[02:42:43] <tw> I prefer binary signature enforcement, but that's not available on linux.
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341[02:47:01] <edju> Running Jessie. When I open KMail 4.14.1, the console spits out a bunch of akonadi spam. Akonadi, I guess, has somehow gotten screwed I'd reinstall, but it isn't a package. Any tips on getting akonadi to behave greatly appreciated.
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362[03:09:59] <SlidingHorn> edju, Have you taken a look at the wiki? replaced-url
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372[03:15:30] <copyto> ##linux
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375[03:16:02] <awal1> how to reduce security/privacy risks for host having a vm running apps needing admin power during long hours?
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384[03:19:24] <SlidingHorn> awal1, here's a good start: replaced-url
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398[03:26:06] <awal1> SlidingHorn, I have seen that years ago yeah; my question was more about eventual "security/privacy holes" that virtualization tools can provoque in the host system
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400[03:27:13] <awal1> like vmtools being a source of security problems under windows
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402[03:27:57] <awal1> vmtools of vmware ^
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404[03:29:44] <awal1> replaced-url
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412[03:33:26] <SlidingHorn> I assume you're using kvm?
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415[03:34:50] <edju> SlidingHorn, Thanks for the pointer. I've stopped akonadi and no more junk. Now, we'll see if it stays stopped!
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417[03:35:42] <SlidingHorn> edju, glad that helped :)
418[03:36:34] <awal1> SlidingHorn, no, I use vbox
419[03:37:11] <awal1> I have better results with it
420[03:37:57] <SlidingHorn> awal1, Here's a good guide from vbox: replaced-url
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423[03:39:09] <awal1> SlidingHorn, nice ;)
424[03:40:22] <SlidingHorn> awal1, keep in mind that security is ongoing, though. Keeping up to date is important. If it's something you're concerned about, considering finding a mailing list or something related to vbox security updates, bugs, etc. :)
425[03:41:54] <SlidingHorn> s/considering/consider
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473[04:22:00] <Delta706> how stable is buster?
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475[04:23:12] <Sveta> I use it every day at a home laptop, for email and web browsing and reading books.
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477[04:23:28] <Sveta> Works for me. If you use it for something else, it may behave differently.
478[04:23:49] <Delta706> It has a package I want which is not in stretch
479[04:23:55] <SlidingHorn> Delta706, more stable than some "stable" versions of other distros, but it all depends on your purpose with it
480[04:24:09] <Sveta> Delta706, you could look for it in backports.
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698[08:06:30] <darxmurf> I have a weird issue post apt-get upgrade
699[08:06:37] <irinix> would opensshd support key enforced logins on one port, and password logins on a seperate port, hidden behind a knock server?
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701[08:07:01] <darxmurf> when I restart some services, I have this process "/bin/systemd-tty-ask-password-agent --watch" stuck
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704[08:09:18] <blaztek> irinix, I believe so yes - because you can have 2 sshd's listening on different ports and adapters
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710[08:10:35] <irinix> blaztek, okay, awesome, thanks. The idea is that I want to start up an aws instance, but I alwaaaaays lose my darn keys, so I wanted to have a knock protected port, that would open a hidden ssh port that was password protected.
711[08:11:08] <irinix> Then to avoid abuse, each time the knock server opened the port, the knockable port would change, and the knock server would send me a text to my google voice acount with the port number
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713[08:11:44] <blaztek> irinix, sounds good....just use `-f config_file` and you'll be good, I'm sure
714[08:12:05] <irinix> =D
715[08:12:09] <n4dir> i would just make sure to not lose my keys ...
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717[08:12:40] <irinix> n4dir, I've tried *everything*
718[08:12:43] <irinix> back up copies,
719[08:12:54] <irinix> writing them down....
720[08:13:08] <n4dir> just kidding. something round the lines of: "protect them with your life"
721[08:13:27] <irinix> yeah, I'd still lose them, life isn't very valuable to me. lol
722[08:13:47] <n4dir> ha ha. you crack me up, that early in the morning. anyway: good luck.
723[08:13:59] <irinix> thanks
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741[08:28:41] <elevator> installing debian via floppy discs. rtl8180 driver is not included... where can I download it?
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743[08:29:54] <idustyb> @elevator: Legit? Awesome. There's a lot of information regarding the realtek non-free drivers on the main debian site.
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747[08:31:04] <idustyb> @elevator: Might be best reading something like this: replaced-url
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754[08:35:27] <elevator> Thanks, yeah. Got an old thinkpad 240x from 2001. Has a usb port but cant boot from it. No etherent port either.
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761[08:41:27] <idustyb> @elevator: Oooh! Awesome. Gosh! May I ask; what are your plans with this device?
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767[08:42:06] <idustyb> (Personal curiosity; feel free to not answer..)
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771[08:43:09] <SlidingHorn> elevator, Try this (using the CD ISO with the nonfree firmware): replaced-url
772[08:43:23] <SlidingHorn> link to the non-free images: replaced-url
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778[08:48:08] <alkisg> The plop boot manager can boot from floppy => usb
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799[09:00:47] <rjsalts> is there any ldap schema packaged in debian that's recommended for mail routing (I'm using exim, but the more standard the better. I'd rather something from a published rfc if there is something)
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814[09:07:21] <elevator> SlidingHorn: thanks, great solution
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817[09:07:59] <SlidingHorn> <o happy to help elevator
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916[10:24:17] <AikiLinux> I am following a basic deb package creation ( first time ) and getting an error of "debian/rules:5: recipe for target 'clean' failed" , i checked for white spaces (both with vim and nano) and saw that the file has none (replaced-url
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931[10:28:01] <BW^-> Hi, for the package "openjdk-8-jdk", i would like to learn *how* (using what build commands) the Debian package is built/compiled. Where can I download those (e.g. its build script)?
932[10:28:01] <Unit193> AikiLinux: Got any more in that log?
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942[10:33:55] <AikiLinux> Unit193, replaced-url
943[10:34:36] <Unit193> AikiLinux: echo 10 > debian/compat
944[10:35:13] <Unit193> ,v debhelper
945[10:35:14] <judd> Package: debhelper on amd64 -- wheezy: 9.20120909; jessie: 9.20150101+deb8u2; jessie-security: 9.20150101+deb8u2; jessie-backports: 10.2.5~bpo8+1; stretch: 10.2.5; stretch-backports: 11~bpo9+1; buster: 11.1.6; sid: 11.1.6
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949[10:36:27] <AikiLinux> thanks (like i said a noob ) following this replaced-url
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954[10:38:29] <Unit193> AikiLinux: You should also really set a build-depend on debhelper for whichever compat level you use, with my example: debhelper (>= 10)
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959[10:39:19] <jelly> BW^-: apt-get source packagename, provided you have entries for
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962[10:39:21] <jelly> !deb-src
963[10:39:22] <dpkg> You can have apt download the <source package> from which a <binary package> was compiled using a "deb-src" line in your <sources.list>. A line like "deb-src replaced-url
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966[10:39:52] <tobiasBora> Hello,
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977[10:40:52] <tobiasBora> I'm on a lab server, and I would like to share one of my folder with other users in order to share a git repository. However, I would like to give write and read access only to a specific list of users, how can I do that?
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991[10:48:05] <DarsVaeda> when viewing journalctl I can hit space to navigate faster, where do I find shortcuts explained?
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995[10:49:36] <SlidingHorn> tobiasBora, as far as I know, private repositories are a paid feature for github. There's a free, open sourced, self hosted platform called Gogs that looks similar though...never used it
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997[10:50:19] <jelly> DarsVaeda: it just calls the system pager to view the lines, by default that's "less"
998[10:50:24] <petn-randall> DarsVaeda: The output gets piped to your preferred viewer, most likely 'less'. The man page should get you going.
999[10:50:40] <DarsVaeda> ah I see
1000[10:50:46] <petn-randall> heh :)
1001[10:50:51] <DarsVaeda> thanks
1002[10:51:19] <alkisg> tobiasBora: replaced-url
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1007[10:55:48] <Iridos> did somebody already mention that it's probably "less"? ^^
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1009[10:57:20] <SlidingHorn> tobiasBora, There's also a fork off Gogs called gitea that looks to have simplified things a bit
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1011[11:02:53] <Unit193> Gitea seems overkill for a local git repo.. As far as 'paid feature', that's true for Github but not Bitbucket (though that seems even more unrelated to the question.)
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1014[11:03:52] <babilen> gitea + letencrypt (with dehydrated) is quite easy to setup
1015[11:04:00] <babilen> *letsencrypt
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1017[11:04:14] <Unit193> gitolite3+cgit is pretty fantastic though. :>
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1073[11:31:51] <tobiasBora> SlidingHorn: well I don't want a private github, I just want to use the server that my lab provide with ssh access
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1076[11:32:50] <tobiasBora> alkisg: I don't have root access to the server, that's why I would like to share a folder of /home/me/git for example, but I don't want to give access to all the users on the server to this folder
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1078[11:33:31] <babilen> You can easily just use ssh+git
1079[11:33:39] <alkisg> tobiasBora: most of the shared folders servers like samba, ssh, whatever, need root to install those servers
1080[11:34:16] <tobiasBora> babilen: I want to use ssh+git yes
1081[11:34:28] <tobiasBora> but the problem is that if I chmod 777 /home/me/git
1082[11:34:42] <tobiasBora> then all the users on the server will be able to modify/delete our code
1083[11:35:05] <tobiasBora> that's why I'd like to give access to /home/me/git to only a few users, say alice and bob
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1085[11:35:27] <alkisg> tobiasBora: how can you allow users to login with ssh? using your account? then you don't need to chmod 777
1086[11:35:32] <tobiasBora> alkisg: ssh is installed, I can rely on it without any trouble
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1088[11:35:45] <alkisg> And all the users already have accounts on that server?
1089[11:35:48] <tobiasBora> alice has a ssh account, bob also
1090[11:35:53] <tobiasBora> yes
1091[11:36:07] <tobiasBora> and I want to allow alice and bob to read/write in /home/me/git
1092[11:36:14] <satanist> tobiasBora: replaced-url
1093[11:36:31] <babilen> You could put all of your repos in /srv/git and control access with suitable owner/group membership or ACLs
1094[11:36:41] <tobiasBora> but chmod/chown are not general enough, and I think to remember that there is some extended right on debian, but don't rememember the name
1095[11:36:51] <tobiasBora> maybe acl or something
1096[11:37:01] <babilen> Yes, access control lists
1097[11:37:26] <babilen> Membership in a "git" group would also work
1098[11:37:31] <p0g0> create a group, add bob and alice to that group, give the group write access?
1099[11:37:38] <babilen> I wouldn't necessarily use my home dir though
1100[11:37:56] <p0g0> yeah, not your home dir is a good notion.
1101[11:37:58] <jim> is there a "maintainance mode" or "single user mode" when systemd is installed, that would allow me to unmount /var?
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1104[11:38:59] <tobiasBora> p0g0: I don't have root access so I can't use group
1105[11:39:14] <p0g0> can you ask someone who does?
1106[11:39:18] <babilen> ^
1107[11:39:33] <p0g0> It's how things are supposed to work...
1108[11:39:37] <babilen> I mean, either contact your hoster or get a box somewhere that allows you to do what you want
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1110[11:40:14] <babilen> In particular if you want to configure things that provides a service to other users on the same box
1111[11:40:26] <tobiasBora> well if I need to create a new group for each new group of people I'm working with, the admin are gonna become crazy
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1115[11:41:07] <tobiasBora> satanist: this provide a specific shell for all users that try to connect to my account using a specific key?
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1117[11:41:11] <babilen> Then ask them to configure gitea/gitlab/... for you. It allows you to configure access control in a fine grained manner.
1118[11:41:22] <wondiws> I'm using xterm, and some program has modified a parameter of one xterm, so if I click in it I get codes. I'm curious what property has been altered
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1120[11:41:33] <wondiws> when I start mc, it is alright again
1121[11:41:38] <wondiws> but mc restores the terminal when I quit it
1122[11:41:46] <tobiasBora> babilen: they are quite oldfashion and I doubt they will provide me these tools
1123[11:42:02] <satanist> tobiasBora: yes
1124[11:42:28] <tobiasBora> satanist: and you can do that without root access? I didn't know that, that's interesting
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1126[11:42:41] <babilen> tobiasBora: The problem is that you want to run a service for multiple users, without being in a position to do so. Either change your position (by getting a different box/hoster/..) or get the people who *are* in that position to run that service
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1128[11:43:24] <satanist> you add the ssh-key to your athorized_keys file with some special arguments
1129[11:43:59] <babilen> I mean we could probably fuddle something together with ACLs in your home dir or even sandboxing SSH, but it will be more work and less secure than doing this right.
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1135[11:49:07] <rindolf> Hi all! My link-fu is failing me - where can i find the patch fixing this - replaced-url
1136[11:49:08] <judd> Bug replaced-url
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1139[11:51:45] <tobiasBora> ok, thank you for your help
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1144[11:55:29] <Iridos> judd, versions beep
1145[11:55:30] <judd> Package: beep on amd64 -- jessie: 1.3-3+b1; wheezy: 1.3-3+b1; wheezy-security: 1.3-3+deb7u1; jessie-security: 1.3-3+deb8u1; buster: 1.3-4+b1; sid: 1.3-4+b1; stretch: 1.3-4+b1; stretch-security: 1.3-4+deb9u1
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1150[11:58:43] <Iridos> rindolf, on debian … apt-get source beep ; then it's inside beep_1.3-4+deb9u1.debian.tar.xz at debian/patches/CVE-2018-0492.patch
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1152[12:00:04] <Iridos> outside debian… beep_1.3-4+deb9u1.debian.tar.xz (for stretch) can be found at replaced-url
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1160[12:01:43] <alkisg> tobiasBora: afaik you could still set up git, and follow this: replaced-url
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1162[12:02:00] <alkisg> There's no need for a "shared folder"
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1164[12:02:10] <rindolf> Iridos: thanks
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1167[12:02:36] <Iridos> yw
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1679[13:07:32] <shtrb|work> Anyone have an idea what damage missing dell-smbios could do ? (no longer have access to docking station)
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1686[13:12:37] <bolovanos> hithere
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1688[13:13:21] <bolovanos> on my Stretch 9.4, I have installed replaced-url
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1691[13:17:06] <hostmania> there is but commented, its usually $distro_codename there
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1693[13:21:13] <bolovanos> hostmania, which versioun would you please recommend? A) "o=Debian,n=stretch,l=Debian-Security"; B) "${distro_id}:${distro_codename}-security";
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1695[13:22:19] <bolovanos> btw this "origin=Debian,codename=${distro_codename},label=Debian-Security"; is uncommented in that config
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1697[13:23:35] <hostmania> i think if you install unattended and do nothing else, only security updates are auto installed
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1699[13:24:18] <bolovanos> maybe that is what that uncommented line says
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1703[13:25:23] <bolovanos> replaced-url
1704[13:25:45] <bites> bolovanos: having jessie in the config is an oversight. if you want to enable the lines you will have to change jessie to stretch or use the ${distro_codename} variable.
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1707[13:26:59] <bites> it has already been reported and fixed for buster.
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1709[13:27:19] <bolovanos> bites, ok thank you
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1711[13:27:23] <bolovanos> hostmania, thank you
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1727[13:32:43] <tobiasBora> Hello,
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1730[13:33:32] <tobiasBora> Does someone know how I could set acl on a NFS mounted system? When I try the classic setfacl is fails
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1734[13:33:50] <cusdylier> I get the following kernel panic when installing Debian Jessie: replaced-url
1735[13:34:01] <cusdylier> Debian Stretch doesn't have this issue and installs fine.
1736[13:34:14] <cusdylier> Anyone any ideas why I get this kernel panic?
1737[13:34:25] <cusdylier> The server I'm installing it on is pre-UEFI.
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1741[13:34:40] <darxmurf> hmmm why do you install jessie ?
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1744[13:34:49] <cusdylier> Requirement for some software.
1745[13:34:58] <cusdylier> @darxmurf
1746[13:35:09] <darxmurf> well, you can't run them on stretch ?
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1748[13:35:15] <ychaouche> Hello #debian
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1753[13:36:46] <ychaouche> I have a hypothesis that my script behaves differently when it's run from the command line than when it's run from a cron job. I would like to run my script from the command line but somehow simulate it was called by a cron job to verify this hypothesis. Is it possible ?
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1758[13:37:38] <petn-randall> ychaouche: cron jobs have a very different environment than from the command line. Many environment variables are not set, such as $PATH.
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1760[13:38:06] <ychaouche> petn-randall: so I have to unset the env before running it from the cmd line ?
1761[13:38:14] <ychaouche> if that's possible
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1764[13:38:49] <petn-randall> ychaouche: Also things in your .bashrc are not executed, and many other things.
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1766[13:40:52] <ychaouche> replaced-url
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1770[13:42:03] <ychaouche> maybe it's not running the same versions of awk
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1772[13:42:28] <ychaouche> but it also seems that sed isn't doing the same substitutions
1773[13:42:39] <hostmania> i believe microcode for intel cpu is non-free, are you guys updating cpu microcode?
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1779[13:45:39] <petn-randall> ychaouche: For starters, you need to use absolute paths, so /bin/sed, /usr/bin/awk, etc.
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1783[13:45:59] <petn-randall> hostmania: Sure. You've got burned-in, older microcode on the CPU, anyway.
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1789[13:51:11] <ychaouche> petn-randall: I will try to call it with at to speed up the test process
1790[13:51:37] <ychaouche> since I can't find a way to simulate cron environement from the command line
1791[13:51:49] <ychaouche> I hope at is somewhat similar to cron
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1793[13:52:17] <tw> considering at runs from cron, it should be.
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1796[13:52:46] <themill> ychaouche: how are you calling it from cron? (what's the exact command)
1797[13:53:07] <ychaouche> themill: I have edited my crontab, I can not call it from cron
1798[13:53:25] <ychaouche> so crontab -e, add a line for my script.
1799[13:53:50] <ychaouche> tw: oh I didn't know that, thanks for mentioning it.
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1801[13:54:01] <ychaouche> themill: I wish I could though.
1802[13:54:31] <themill> I was hoping to see the exact command used :(
1803[13:54:35] * ychaouche interesting : sed is in /bin, but awk is in /usr/bin
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1805[13:55:09] <ychaouche> themill: the line from the crontab ?
1806[13:55:13] <themill> yes
1807[13:55:24] <ychaouche> # ==================================== MAILCOP ============================================
1808[13:55:26] <ychaouche> 20 06 * * * /root/SCRIPTS/MAIL/mailcop-mailer > /tmp/mailcop-cron-out
1809[13:55:44] <themill> thanks, that rules out sh vs bash
1810[13:56:05] <ychaouche> so that's sh ?
1811[13:56:39] <ychaouche> but wouldn't it matter because the script starts with #!/bin/bash anyways ?
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1819[14:01:57] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
1820[14:02:03] <petn-randall> ychaouche: Nope. 'sh script.sh' is different from './script.sh'.
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1840[14:15:13] <ychaouche> What's reading the first line of a script then ?
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1843[14:15:31] <ychaouche> oh, bash ?
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1846[14:16:55] <ychaouche> I got it run from at now I have the correct output, except I have extra "-e"s printed whenever the line echo -e is executed.
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1848[14:17:07] <shtrb|work> shebang has more into it than just reading a line
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1853[14:18:35] <BCMM> ychaouche: it's actually the kernel that reads #! directives
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1856[14:19:16] <shtrb|work> BCMM , april fool had passed some time ago
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1858[14:19:47] <ychaouche> :D
1859[14:19:57] <themill> ychaouche: you have a typo in your script: $REGX_IP
1860[14:19:58] <BCMM> shtrb|work: replaced-url
1861[14:20:14] <ychaouche> replaced-url
1862[14:20:21] <Iridos> there is no "-e" in the script you linked to…
1863[14:21:16] <ychaouche> oh thanks a ton themill !
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1865[14:21:46] <shtrb|work> BCMM , kernel support for scripts is not general script handling
1866[14:21:53] <BCMM> shtrb|work: for all i know, there may *also* be shells which process #! internally, but if, for example, you exec() a shell script in C code, what do you think starts the interpreter?
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1868[14:22:24] <themill> ychaouche: you should always add set -u and set -e to your sh scripts. Also when you get that level of complexity, you probably want to rewrite in python or perl using that language's geoiplookup module
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1877[14:24:45] <ychaouche> themill: can I somehow run my scripts with bash ?
1878[14:25:03] <ychaouche> for example : bash /path/to/my/script <--- in the cron
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1880[14:25:38] <shtrb|work> BCMM, if the kerenl would have interpenetrated each call to a shell script you would have been getting lots of oopses during run time. normally a userspace application (a systemcall interacts with the kernel but normally will never cause execution directly there).
1881[14:25:47] <themill> ychaouche: you've already got the #! there
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1883[14:26:18] <BCMM> shtrb|work: i'm not saying the kernel interprets the actual script, if that's what you're implying
1884[14:26:52] <Iridos> ychaouche, I don't see a difference in output if called from cron or not for your script… looks like the one you see in cron
1885[14:26:53] <BCMM> shtrb|work: i'm saying that it's responsible for examining a #! and starting the appropriate (userspace) interpreter
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1892[14:28:43] <BCMM> shtrb|work: if you don't believe me, look at man 2 execve, section "Interpreter scripts"
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1895[14:31:30] <MadMux> good advice... good advice...
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1901[14:32:58] <ychaouche> Iridos: when run from cron, it can't get the countries right.
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1905[14:33:35] <ychaouche> replaced-url
1906[14:34:25] <ychaouche> and when run from at I get yet another behavior (different from cron)
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1909[14:35:15] <ychaouche> replaced-url
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1911[14:35:45] <ychaouche> Here's how I run it from at : at "now + 1 minutes" -f /root/SCRIPTS/MAIL/mailcop-mailer
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1917[14:38:09] <kryl> hi
1918[14:38:24] <ychaouche> o/
1919[14:38:40] <dogui> is there any explanation on the `beep` vulnerability?
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1927[14:40:15] <petn-randall> dogui: If you set it suid, you can escalate privileges with it.
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1929[14:40:33] <themill> ychaouche: no-one knows what you're running
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1931[14:40:53] <dogui> petn-randall: but how? I haven't seen any further description
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1934[14:41:15] <ychaouche> themill: how can I show you ?
1935[14:41:21] <themill> pastebin the actual script
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1937[14:42:29] <Iridos> he did… replaced-url
1938[14:42:36] <Iridos> but guess that's not the current version anymore
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1940[14:42:41] <themill> quite
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1942[14:43:03] <petn-randall> dogui: I think it's not documented to allow people to update their machines. But if you're really curious, you can just diff the source code of 1.3-4 and 1.3-4+deb9u1 and make your own conclusions.
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1944[14:43:25] <Iridos> also… you seem to not have used the same input for both of your outputs in that pastebin
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1946[14:43:51] <Iridos> at least, 172.16.10.222 is not in your input …
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1949[14:44:39] <ychaouche> complete script : replaced-url
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1952[14:45:38] <ychaouche> sorry for the confusion : the first script was only small portion of code where the error happened. Then I got another problem with echo but in another greater script which I didn't paste...
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1954[14:45:53] <dogui> petn-randall: thanks, just looked at it
1955[14:45:54] <ychaouche> the greater script calls the smallest one.
1956[14:46:11] <dogui> petn-randall: seems maybe a use-after-close on a FD, but don't take my word for it : )
1957[14:46:47] <petn-randall> dogui: It's also unusual for it to get fixed in stable/oldstable before sid, guess it was urgent.
1958[14:47:20] <petn-randall> dogui: If you don't have it suid, you should be safe, though. It's a debconf question during installation.
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1961[14:48:27] <petn-randall> "Since each program set as suid root can be a security risk this is not done by default. However, the program is quite small (~150 lines of code), so it is fairly easy to verify the safety of the code yourself, if you don't trust the package maintainer's judgement."
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1963[14:48:43] <petn-randall> I guess you can also have CVE-worthy bugs in 150 lines of code ... :)
1964[14:49:39] <tw> industry average is 5 per thousand loc, right?
1965[14:49:49] <tw> not CVE-level but bugs in general.
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1967[14:50:13] <BCMM> bugs, or security bugs?
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1970[14:50:33] <BCMM> for just bugs, per se, it seems kinda low
1971[14:50:48] <tw> That's after testing in released code.
1972[14:50:59] <shtrb|work> BCMM, well call me win10user and hit me with a LDD, because (replaced-url
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1976[14:51:36] <BCMM> shtrb|work: heh np
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1979[14:52:02] <BCMM> shtrb|work: but it's kind of the whole point of #! scripts - they work (almost) exactly like real binaries do
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1983[14:52:33] <BCMM> if you have a program that calls an external utility, it doesn't need to know whether it's calling a script or a binary
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1987[14:54:38] <BCMM> shtrb|work: also of interest is that they came surprisingly late - unix v8 and 4.2bsd
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1992[14:56:27] <BCMM> before that, plenty of standard unix commands were shell scripts (even stuff that's a binary now, like /bin/true), but they worked differently. the shell just had special handling for any text file with an executable bit
1993[14:56:46] <BCMM> (which, obviously, didn't permit a choice of interpreters, and didn't work with exec)
1994[14:57:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1540
1995[14:57:21] <tw> Can bash be configured to check execution permissions before sourcing an input file?
1996[14:57:41] <tw> it seems like because of the way the loader works and permissions are checked, no.
1997[14:59:56] <Iridos> would we want it to?
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1999[15:00:25] <Iridos> and would it make sense to have a difference between bash script and bash < script ?
2000[15:00:29] <tw> I would. Then if a user can't +x a script, they can't run arbitrary commands w/o opening an input.
2001[15:00:35] <tw> And you can prevent that.
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2003[15:00:59] <tw> by only allowing execve and not exec
2004[15:01:09] <Iridos> they can always do bash < script (see above)
2005[15:01:16] <Iridos> or enter commands themselves…
2006[15:01:17] <tw> no, because they don't have a shell.
2007[15:01:33] <Iridos> but then they cannot do "bash script" either
2008[15:01:39] * petn-randall wonders about the use case where that would help.
2009[15:01:56] <petn-randall> s/help/gain something/
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2011[15:02:20] <tw> A good example is running a program from a cgi.
2012[15:02:36] <Iridos> me neither… either they can run bash or they cannot…
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2015[15:03:11] <tw> if you use exec(), you get a shell interpreter, but if you use execve, you don't get indirection or other command line magics.
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2017[15:03:36] <tw> So you can totally /bin/bash /somefile, but not /bin/bash </somefile
2018[15:03:59] <BCMM> tw: /bin/bash /somefile is not sourcing
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2020[15:04:18] <tw> it's not, but you can't do an exec check there either.
2021[15:04:47] <alkisg> echo "echo hi" > /tmp/hi; bash /tmp/hi => hi. No execute bit needed..
2022[15:04:54] <BCMM> tw: also, it seems like you're concerned about a situation where users are able to execute bash with arbitrary command line parameters
2023[15:05:05] <BCMM> in that situation, it does not make sense to attempt to limit what actions they can perform
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2026[15:05:34] <tw> I'm not perfect, I'm eventually going to make a mistake that allows unexpected command expansion.
2027[15:05:39] <Iridos> well, maybe it does… make things a little harder… but I would agree… not by much
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2031[15:06:15] <BCMM> tw: and if you do, the user isn't going to need to find a shell script to do the bad thing
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2035[15:07:05] <BCMM> tw: because you can still do bash -c "ruin -rf everything"
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2037[15:07:35] <tw> BCMM: possibly not, and ideally it'd be a wide enough spread idea that all script interpreters would need to check executability of included or sourced scripts.
2038[15:07:40] <Iridos> you might not be able to use quotes that way from a cgi… so it might be just that little unfortunate bit that lets you not break in that way
2039[15:08:12] <Iridos> but probably that just means you have to work a little harder to use that potential bug
2040[15:08:17] <BCMM> tw: right, but checking permissions on commands provided via bash -c doesn't make sense
2041[15:08:30] <tw> No, you've got me there, that doesn't make sense.
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2046[15:10:11] <tw> Though I suspect I could disable the -c option with a linux security policy extension.
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2049[15:10:48] <Iridos> you could disable cgi-bin :-}
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2051[15:11:09] <tw> I could turn my computer off too. Also a good option these days -_-;
2052[15:12:29] <Iridos> Also, I always saw it as a feature, that bash can run all readable files
2053[15:12:52] <Iridos> and btw. you cannot exececute a bash script that is not readable, even if the executable bit is set
2054[15:13:29] <Iridos> $ ./bla ---> /bin/bash: ./bla: Permission denied
2055[15:13:48] <Iridos> the kernel reads the first line with #!/bin/bash … but then bash cannot read the file
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2060[15:14:13] <Iridos> that is on … -wx--x--x 1 29 Apr 4 15:11 bla
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2063[15:15:00] <tw> okay, that opens up a somewhat convoluted way to solve my problem: don't let any image running as that user other than the cgi handler open any file in the cgi-writable area.
2064[15:15:05] <BCMM> Iridos: wait, surely I can't determine the interpreter of a script i can't read that way?
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2066[15:15:30] <Iridos> BCMM, ?
2067[15:15:32] <tw> you can't, kernel can.
2068[15:15:42] <Iridos> sure… I just did
2069[15:16:16] <BCMM> oh, but you'd have to have execute permission on the script anyway
2070[15:16:25] <Iridos> /bin/sh: 0: Can't open ./bla
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2072[15:16:31] <BCMM> and execute permission but no read permission makes little enough sense that this isn't really a problem. got it.
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2075[15:17:03] <Iridos> execute permission but no read permission makes sense on C programs that you don't want people to copy
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2078[15:18:27] <jelly> C is for "compiled"
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2087[15:24:54] <tw> At the most basic level, I want to be able to intuitively say "this file won't get interpreted because it doesn't have execute enabled."
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2089[15:25:09] <tw> And yes, there's a ton of ways around that, but that's what I'd like to have.
2090[15:25:29] <BCMM> there are *so* many ways around it that it's barely even meaningful
2091[15:26:00] <tw> And I'd consider that part of the problem that needs to be addressed and not necessarily a reason to block it.
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2102[15:32:44] <Iridos> well, don't use scripts for cgi, only binaries… and don't have them call bash
2103[15:33:21] <Iridos> I'd also see generally sanitizing user input as a much more useful tool there…
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2107[15:34:00] <Iridos> what you suggest would only address a very very specific case … and so could only prevent a tiny fraction of the total amount of possible exploits
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2109[15:35:00] <iateadonut> i've got slack running. i've also got dnsmasq that basically blocks all traffic to domain.tld's i haven't specifically allowed.
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2112[15:35:17] <iateadonut> i'm wondering how i might find what domain slack is trying to connect to?
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2115[15:36:06] <noodlepie> Hello to the Debian users!
2116[15:36:20] *** Joins: Slashman (~Slash@replaced-ip)
2117[15:39:05] <ychaouche> no bashdb for debian ?
2118[15:39:10] <ychaouche> hello noodlepie
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2121[15:40:18] <tw> Iridos: you can further extend the idea into .so files, you should not be able to load non-executable binaries into executable memory.
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2125[15:40:46] <noodlepie> Hi ychaouche
2126[15:40:51] <noodlepie> How's it going.
2127[15:41:11] <nemo> so. a friend of mine just tried wget replaced-url
2128[15:41:53] <jelly> ychaouche: bashdb?
2129[15:42:01] <nemo> I mean disabling cert validation is a workaround in this case. even if it's not a safe thing to do in general
2130[15:42:12] <BCMM> jelly: i guess he means irc quotes database, like bash.org
2131[15:42:13] <ychaouche> jelly: I don't know it seems to be a bash debugger
2132[15:42:25] <ychaouche> replaced-url
2133[15:42:25] *** Joins: turfal (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
2134[15:42:39] <ychaouche> heard about it in here: replaced-url
2135[15:42:45] <BCMM> or, or BashDB, that would make sense too
2136[15:43:06] <nemo> I guess on another front... is there anyone here still on Debian 7.11 who could confirm this behaviour?
2137[15:43:11] <nemo> the cert itself seems normal
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2142[15:44:04] <BCMM> this fried definitely has the date and time set correctly, right?
2143[15:44:24] <jelly> nemo: yes, fails with
2144[15:44:25] <jelly> ERROR: The certificate of `replaced-url
2145[15:44:26] <jelly> ERROR: The certificate of `replaced-url
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2150[15:46:17] <nemo> jelly: ok. so it's not due to any failure to update on his part
2151[15:46:18] <jelly> nemo: and installing ca-certificates_20161130+nmu1_all.deb from stretch does NOT fix that issue
2152[15:46:22] <nemo> jelly: nice
2153[15:46:28] <nemo> jelly: 2016 O_o
2154[15:46:42] <jelly> ,v ca-certificates
2155[15:46:43] <judd> Package: ca-certificates on amd64 -- wheezy: 20130119+deb7u1; wheezy-security: 20130119+deb7u2; jessie: 20141019+deb8u3; stretch: 20161130+nmu1; buster: 20170717; sid: 20170717
2156[15:46:57] <nemo> jelly: so. guess at some point in past year or so debian has kinda decided certs are not work backporting ☺
2157[15:47:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1546
2158[15:47:02] <jelly> nemo: CA roots do not change _that_ often
2159[15:47:18] <nemo> jelly: wow. that's just bizarre though. certs are like trivial to backport right? is there any distro differences to speak of?
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2161[15:47:22] <nemo> jelly: either a cert works or not...
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2163[15:47:33] <nemo> jelly: even if some ancient version can't parse a CA, who cares if you package it for it?
2164[15:47:39] *** Joins: Tempesta (Tempesta@replaced-ip)
2165[15:47:41] <nemo> a CA's cert
2166[15:47:46] <colo-work> replaced-url
2167[15:47:57] <nemo> colo-work: ok... and wget?
2168[15:48:04] <nemo> colo-work: which should just be using gnu tls same as curl
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2170[15:48:16] <colo-work> no complaints from that either
2171[15:48:16] <nemo> colo-work: maybe wget is the one that is unmaintained.
2172[15:48:19] <nemo> hmmm
2173[15:48:25] *** Quits: tomlukeywood (~tom@replaced-ip) (Quit: tomlukeywood)
2174[15:48:29] <colo-work> nah, both should use the same list of trust anchors
2175[15:48:32] <nemo> colo-work: I don't know anything about debian code names. does stretch = 7?
2176[15:48:39] <colo-work> stretch = 9
2177[15:48:41] <nemo> ah
2178[15:48:41] <colo-work> 7 = wheezy
2179[15:48:42] <nemo> haha
2180[15:48:48] <nemo> colo-work: ok. so. not too interesting then ☺
2181[15:48:51] *** Joins: Zharf (~eclipser@replaced-ip)
2182[15:48:53] <nemo> ofc 9 would be fine 😝
2183[15:48:57] *** Quits: rindolf (~rindolf@replaced-ip##) (Quit: ##replaced-url
2184[15:49:07] <nemo> well... 7 EOLs in 2 months
2185[15:49:23] <nemo> guess it's not worth fixing cert store in interim or something - but I bet it's been broken for a long time
2186[15:49:32] <jelly> nemo: so it's obviously not _just_ ca-certificates' fault
2187[15:49:45] <nemo> oh?
2188[15:49:52] *** Joins: Uberius (~Uberius@replaced-ip)
2189[15:49:57] <nemo> jelly: ah. I see
2190[15:50:09] <nemo> jelly: your point was that you're using ca-certificate from stretch and it still fails
2191[15:50:16] <jelly> yes
2192[15:50:33] <nemo> jelly: I found an old (closed) debian bug from 2011 closed in 2013 with same symptoms that required updating to gnutls 1.3
2193[15:50:50] <nemo> jelly: maybe it's something similar. again. that is, simply using an ancient tls - but that's weird since you'd think the entire system would have that issue
2194[15:51:01] <nemo> replaced-url
2195[15:51:02] <judd> Bug replaced-url
2196[15:51:23] <jelly> not ancient TLS, that's the protocol, ancient gnutls (an implementation)
2197[15:51:32] *** Quits: evilman_work (~evilman@replaced-ip) ()
2198[15:51:33] <nemo> jelly: yeah. sorry. that's what I meant ☺
2199[15:51:41] *** Joins: kryl (~kryl@replaced-ip)
2200[15:51:47] <nemo> jelly: but really I was thinking that the *implementation* was probably lacking more recent TLS changes
2201[15:51:50] <nemo> jelly: but who knows
2202[15:52:05] <nemo> like 1.2 or 1.3 - let's see what this site requires
2203[15:52:08] * nemo checks ssllabs
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2217[15:56:02] <nemo> ssl labs says TLS 1.2 and 1.1, no 1.0 or 1.3
2218[15:56:19] <nemo> and supports all the usual ciphers, including the ridiculously weak ones
2219[15:56:25] <tw> 1.3 is barely standardized, ignore for a few months at least.
2220[15:56:42] <nemo> find it hard to believe that Debian 7 would not support TLS 1.1
2221[15:56:47] <nemo> replaced-url
2222[15:56:48] *** Quits: mtn (~mtn@replaced-ip) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2223[15:56:55] <jelly> I'd assume all the ssl stuff in debian 7 had TLS1.2 but...
2224[15:57:16] <nemo> maybe some handshake fail?
2225[15:57:35] <nemo> like. not recognising gnutls proposed protocols or something
2226[15:57:43] <tw> ^- most likely that.
2227[15:57:44] <jelly> get tshark/tcpdump, collect traffic and see what happens
2228[15:58:03] <nemo> heh. don't even have a debian-anything to try experimenting with
2229[15:58:10] <nemo> mostly came by to see if it was something simple and obv
2230[15:58:21] <nemo> dude I was trying to help only had the one linux machine and barely knows how to use a shell
2231[15:58:27] <jelly> or use curl and libcurl linked with openssl
2232[15:58:28] <nemo> all my machines are fine
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2234[15:58:58] <nemo> jelly: oh... I thought debian would use one ssl lib as standard, surely it's less complicated that way
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2238[16:00:06] <jelly> bwhahahaha! Ha-ha. Ha. Good one. *cries*
2239[16:00:09] <tw> I wouldn't be surprised if some linux systems had 3 or more tls implementations installed.
2240[16:00:26] *** Quits: galex-713_ (~galex-713@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2241[16:00:32] <nemo> my wget is linked against openssl
2242[16:00:49] <jelly> nemo: then you're not running debian
2243[16:00:53] <nemo> yes
2244[16:01:00] <tw> I think the wget on debian opportunistically links whichever one it finds first.
2245[16:01:03] <nemo> mm
2246[16:01:12] <jelly> tw: no
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2248[16:01:22] <jelly> but there's libcurl3-gnutls and libcurl3
2249[16:01:23] <tw> No? it's load time linked to gnutls?
2250[16:01:29] <tw> oh.
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2252[16:01:45] <jelly> oh, there's even a libcurl3-nss
2253[16:01:45] <tw> i see what you mean.
2254[16:01:57] <jelly> ,depends wget --release wheezy
2255[16:01:58] <judd> Package wget in wheezy/amd64 -- depends: libc6 (>= 2.11), libgcrypt11 (>= 1.4.5), libgnutls26 (>= 2.12.17-0), libgpg-error0 (>= 1.10), libidn11 (>= 1.13), zlib1g (>= 1:1.1.4), dpkg (>= 1.15.4) | install-info.
2256[16:02:37] <nemo> jelly: so... does curl actually work on wheezy? I could just tell him to do that
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2258[16:02:56] <jelly> !tias
2259[16:02:57] <dpkg> TIAS is "Try It And See".
2260[16:03:01] <nemo> ☹
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2263[16:03:15] <nemo> jelly: you had wheezy 7 handy. for me, it'd require standing up a whole new VM and installing
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2267[16:03:19] <nemo> was hoping you could just run the command
2268[16:03:26] *** Quits: danvey (~danvey@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2269[16:03:52] <tw> Your friend/contact has a wheezy system. I'd hope they could do it.
2270[16:03:53] *** Quits: dionysus69 (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2271[16:04:05] *** Quits: mos3abof (~mosab@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2272[16:04:14] <jelly> this is why we usually ask the actual person with the problem to come ask things
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2275[16:04:55] <jelly> nemo: I do, but I'm not going to downgrade ca-certificates
2276[16:05:02] <nemo> tw: ah... well he's really not very linux savvy - I was mostly asking him to wget shellscript and run it
2277[16:05:20] *** Joins: ChmEarl (~chmearl@replaced-ip)
2278[16:05:31] <nemo> jelly: oh. well. wget is failing even w/ up to date ca-certs... it'd just be informative
2279[16:05:37] <nemo> but meh. I'll change it and ask him to rerun
2280[16:05:56] <nemo> jelly: does wget work with --no-check-certificates ? surely it'd still fail if it is protocol negotiation tho
2281[16:06:17] *** Quits: copec_ (~copec@replaced-ip) (Quit: checkity check out.)
2282[16:06:42] <nemo> hm.. looks like I have gnutls for gnupg and courier imap
2283[16:07:09] <jelly> it seems to work with --no-check-certificate yes
2284[16:07:09] <nemo> and... for some reason courier imap only accepts libressl and gnutls? huh... that's just bizarre
2285[16:07:13] <nemo> jelly: great
2286[16:07:23] <jelly> libressl is just a saner fork of openssl
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2290[16:08:11] <jelly> source-based distros would not have a lot of trouble migrating to that
2291[16:08:12] <nemo> jelly: yeah... I agree in principle
2292[16:08:18] *** Joins: nti__ (~nti@replaced-ip)
2293[16:08:28] <nemo> jelly: but.... I'm hearing conflicting opinions on that lately
2294[16:08:33] <nemo> jelly: and. yeh. this is a gentoo box
2295[16:08:35] <kliptcowings> using antix and it has a config for my xbox remote by default? seems weird to me but i need to find and remove that so the controller can be used correctly in emulators and steam
2296[16:08:45] *** Quits: chachasmooth (~chachasmo@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2297[16:08:49] * Tenkawa remembers gentoo days
2298[16:09:03] * Tenkawa cringes at all source building
2299[16:09:09] <nemo> jelly: the opinion seems to be that openssl is getting more attention these days, so it totally won't suffer from sanity
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2301[16:09:24] <nemo> Tenkawa: eh. I don't find that to be a massive impediment - the only annoying one is seamonkey or firefox ☺
2302[16:09:35] <nemo> Tenkawa: and don't even consider chromium - that's just... yeah... use binary for that
2303[16:09:50] *** Quits: pax (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Quit: pax)
2304[16:09:53] <kliptcowings> locate xpad doesn't show any config files, just kernel stuff and a few .png
2305[16:09:56] <Tenkawa> nemo: extremely time consuming if you build it all yourself.. ie freebsd make world
2306[16:10:19] <Tenkawa> kliptcowings: did you run updatedb first?
2307[16:10:26] <nemo> Tenkawa: sure. but that's just an up front cost - this gentoo box in particualar has been running for 16 years
2308[16:10:33] <nemo> Tenkawa: including 3 hardware migrations 😃
2309[16:10:42] <Tenkawa> nemo: heheheh :)
2310[16:10:44] <jelly> nemo: well curl with gnutls and default ca-certificates from wheezy _also_ works. It's just wget with same library that does not.
2311[16:10:50] *** Joins: chachasmooth (~chachasmo@replaced-ip)
2312[16:10:53] <nemo> jelly: wow. that's crazy
2313[16:11:20] <Tenkawa> bah on wget.. curl ftw
2314[16:11:20] <nemo> jelly: oh. one person in that bug report I linked to claimed that purging and reinstalling ca-certificates fixed that prior bug. which makes no sense whatsoever
2315[16:11:27] <jelly> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2316[16:11:28] <kliptcowings> the one time antix ships with something working out of the box and i don't need or want it and can't find it... geez
2317[16:11:40] <nemo> Tenkawa: meh. I use both. TBH I mostly use wget out of lazy finger syndrom
2318[16:11:46] <nemo> Tenkawa: I just find the defaults more convenient
2319[16:11:49] <Tenkawa> kliptcowings: did you run updatedb first?
2320[16:11:55] <kliptcowings> need this xbox remote to quit acting like a mouse even when i map it in zsnes
2321[16:12:00] <nemo> Tenkawa: I could probably just replace wget w/ a shell wrapper to curl but haven't gotten around to it
2322[16:12:15] <nemo> Tenkawa: and... let's not forget plenty of distro stuff still uses it. so making sure it works ok still makes sense
2323[16:12:27] *** Quits: andrzejv (~andzej@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2324[16:12:34] <Tenkawa> nemo: let me catch up.. what "is" happening
2325[16:12:53] <nemo> 09:41 < nemo> so. a friend of mine just tried wget replaced-url
2326[16:12:59] <Tenkawa> i entered in half problem
2327[16:14:10] <kliptcowings> Tenkawa, I think i did, but i am running it now just to make suer
2328[16:14:28] <Tenkawa> did he send you full cert error?
2329[16:14:39] <Tenkawa> I have another thought
2330[16:14:53] <Tenkawa> but i need to see something too big to paste in chan
2331[16:14:59] *** Quits: karimb (~karimb@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving...)
2332[16:15:02] *** Quits: sweatsuit (~sweatsuit@replaced-ip##) (Quit: ZNC - ##replaced-url
2333[16:15:21] <kliptcowings> replaced-url
2334[16:15:38] <Tenkawa> kliptcowings: that was directed to nemo but I'll look at yours too
2335[16:15:45] <kliptcowings> does any of that seem like it could be a config file? and is that what is likely configuring the remote
2336[16:15:47] <kliptcowings> okay lol
2337[16:15:49] <jelly> nemo: more interestingly, strace -eopen wget ... shows it reads all the certs in /etc/ssl/certs, but strace -eopen curl reads exactly the right one
2338[16:15:59] <nemo> jelly: huh.
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2340[16:16:27] *** Quits: jair (~jair@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2341[16:16:40] <Tenkawa> kliptcowings: so whats failing?
2342[16:16:41] *** Joins: sweatsuit (~sweatsuit@replaced-ip)
2343[16:16:45] <nemo> Tenkawa: no, but seems like jelly is reproducing it easily. and even w/ a debian "stretch" ca certs
2344[16:16:56] <n4dir> kliptcowings: a command i hardly use, but "whereis xpad" might give a hint.
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2347[16:17:34] <themill> nemo: feeding wget the entire cert chain as a pem (--ca-certificate=their.pem) works fine in wheezy
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2349[16:17:56] <nemo> themill: so. it's hitting a bad cert (or one it thinks is bad) in /etc/ssl/certs and aborting
2350[16:18:03] *** Joins: allizom (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
2351[16:18:08] <nemo> wonder how curl finds the right one - by file name?
2352[16:18:09] <themill> istr older wget doesn't follow chains
2353[16:18:13] <Tenkawa> my "advice" would be to purge ca-certificates and re apt-get it
2354[16:18:22] <Tenkawa> on that machine
2355[16:18:28] <nemo> Tenkawa: yeah. that's what someone said in the last report of a similar bug
2356[16:18:33] <jelly> Tenkawa: does not make any difference
2357[16:18:34] <petn-randall> Wasn't it reproducible by jelly?
2358[16:18:42] <Tenkawa> jelly: i agree it shouldnt
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2360[16:18:58] <jelly> also, purging ca-certs is silly
2361[16:19:01] *** Quits: platvoeten (~platvoete@replaced-ip) (Quit: Lost terminal)
2362[16:19:03] <Tenkawa> and its working fine here
2363[16:19:06] <petn-randall> FTR, `wget -O /dev/null replaced-url
2364[16:19:15] <Tenkawa> but purging will at least clean the chain
2365[16:19:24] <petn-randall> Tenkawa: What release are you running?
2366[16:19:25] <jelly> what chain?
2367[16:19:29] <Tenkawa> petn-randall: buster is way newer though
2368[16:19:41] <Tenkawa> petn-randall: I have several test installs
2369[16:19:48] <Tenkawa> i tried 3 diff ones
2370[16:19:53] <themill> Tenkawa: not actually helping btw
2371[16:19:56] <jelly> gnutls seems not to care about the bundle at all; it reads each cert in CApath separately
2372[16:20:07] <Tenkawa> let me try my stretch one
2373[16:20:13] <petn-randall> ...
2374[16:20:37] <jelly> (and with curl, it actually only reads
2375[16:20:38] <jelly> open("/etc/ssl/certs/157753a5.0", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 4
2376[16:20:39] <Tenkawa> too many of mine are modified
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2380[16:21:14] <kliptcowings> Tenkawa, basically i have a xbox remote that has some config and module loaded by default and it acts like a mouse when i move the analog around and when i map the remote to zsnes it doesn't work right because it is mapped already
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2383[16:21:41] <jelly> nemo has curl as a workaround, so I'm going to do something less interesting now
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2386[16:21:55] <nemo> jelly: hehe
2387[16:22:06] *** Quits: galex-713_ (~galex-713@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2388[16:22:11] <nemo> jelly: fair 'nuff - and yeah, if Debian 7 is EOL'd in 2 months, it's hardly worth burning more time on
2389[16:22:32] <Tenkawa> wget is working fine here
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2391[16:22:37] <nemo> I gave him the curl syntax. if he can figure out how to edit the file in nano - I might have to edit it for him
2392[16:23:14] <Tenkawa> oops.. wrong one.. thats my sid box
2393[16:23:21] <jelly> nemo: curl | sed | sudo bash? :-)
2394[16:23:23] * jelly hides
2395[16:23:27] <nemo> lol
2396[16:23:27] <Tenkawa> dont have my stretch one booted
2397[16:23:51] <kliptcowings> is there a fast way to blacklist the xpad module with modprobe?
2398[16:24:02] <Tenkawa> (my normal desk is occupied and no room to get all my gear out)
2399[16:24:05] *** Joins: Rhuarc (~Rhuarc-@replaced-ip)
2400[16:24:07] <themill> Tenkawa: none of this is actually helping
2401[16:24:51] <Tenkawa> themill: well.. it does prove that it could very possibly be environmental
2402[16:24:59] <themill> Tenkawa: no
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2404[16:25:09] <jelly> !blacklist
2405[16:25:10] <dpkg> To blacklist a Linux kernel module, create/edit /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist.local.conf and add a line similar to this (without quotes): "blacklist module_name". If this doesn't work, do 'echo "install modulename /bin/true" >> /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist.local.conf'. IMPORTANT: ask about <blacklist-initramfs>. To blacklist a module at installation time, ask me about <installer blacklist>. replaced-url
2406[16:25:49] <Tenkawa> nemo: either way good luck though.
2407[16:25:58] <kliptcowings> thanks dpkg
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2410[16:26:36] <nemo> Tenkawa: yeah. thanks. I gave him wget --no-check-certificates and the curl syntax with s/-O/-o/ and s/-U/-A/ - it's up to him now
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2424[16:28:43] <wchance> Can anyone recommend a opensource mail server for small business?
2425[16:28:45] *** Quits: seriff (~seriff@replaced-ip##) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: ##replaced-url
2426[16:29:07] <nemo> courier?
2427[16:29:11] <nemo> my personal preference
2428[16:29:23] <wchance> Ok thanks let me look at that project
2429[16:29:25] <wchance> thanks again
2430[16:29:27] <brw> I use postfix
2431[16:29:31] *** Joins: eberna (~eberna@replaced-ip)
2432[16:29:37] <iodev> brw, postfix is the best
2433[16:29:41] <nemo> heh
2434[16:29:46] <iodev> only the worst for configing :D
2435[16:29:57] <brw> hah, people who say that never configured sendmail
2436[16:30:00] <iodev> there should be a simple MTA
2437[16:30:06] * brw was a 90's admin.
2438[16:30:15] <nemo> iodev: ack. sorry. you're right. I use courier for IMAP(S) and postfix for MTA
2439[16:30:18] <iodev> brw, respect!
2440[16:30:30] <nemo> iodev: I agree w/ you postfix is best. can I plead ambiguity of the question? ☺
2441[16:30:30] <iodev> nemo, that is called MDA (Mail Delivery Agent)
2442[16:30:33] <nemo> ack
2443[16:30:34] <iodev> IMAP is the protocol
2444[16:30:34] *** Quits: wondiws (~Jasper@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
2445[16:30:49] <nemo> iodev: ok. I also suck at the abbreviations apparently
2446[16:30:55] <iodev> doesn't matter
2447[16:30:55] <nemo> iodev: I thought MTA was the smtpd
2448[16:31:08] <nemo> iodev: and courier-imap was the MDA
2449[16:31:13] <nemo> so confused
2450[16:31:15] <iodev> MTA is smtp, smtpd is the part that receives in Postfix
2451[16:31:18] <BanHammor> I'm having a process hang in kernel mode seemingly forever, so debugging it via attaching gdb doesn't seem possible, what can i do to research where it gets stuck?
2452[16:31:30] *** Joins: elevated (~elevated@replaced-ip)
2453[16:31:58] <iodev> nemo, okay, let's start from the beginning
2454[16:32:03] <nemo> iodev: anyway yeah. postfix forever - my config has been working happily for 2 decades w/ only minor tweaks from time to time to spam control rules.
2455[16:32:29] <iodev> so when you send a mail, postfix connects to port 25 on gmail.com (or wherever you want it) and says "I got an email for you"
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2459[16:32:59] <iodev> nemo, next, the receiving server (at gmail.com) 's postfix (smtpd) (if they use that) talks via unix sockets or whatever to dovecot (MDA)
2460[16:33:05] *** Quits: SpeakerToMeat (~SpeakerTo@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2461[16:33:10] <iodev> "Here, put this in user X's mailbox"
2462[16:33:21] <nemo> iodev: ok. so I DID have the right terminology
2463[16:33:23] <iodev> next Mr. X connects to dovecot via IMAP and gets his mail
2464[16:33:34] <nemo> iodev: MDA for courier-imap and MTA for postfix is what I use and thus recommend
2465[16:33:54] <nemo> and I guess MUA would be thunderbird or whatever
2466[16:34:00] *** Joins: RedSoxFan07 (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
2467[16:34:02] <iodev> they're all inter-compatible
2468[16:34:04] <nemo> whatever his corporation perfers
2469[16:34:05] *** Parts: Tenkawa (~na@replaced-ip) ()
2470[16:34:08] <nemo> *prefers
2471[16:34:18] *** Quits: galex-713_ (~galex-713@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2472[16:34:20] <iodev> you can use mailinabox :D
2473[16:34:27] <iodev> if you don't value your clients safety :D
2474[16:34:53] <iodev> otherwise, manual configuration, making sure to harden the server, can take even 3 hours :
2475[16:35:22] *** Quits: super_gollum (~ich@replaced-ip) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2476[16:35:23] <iodev> nemo, also, as a company you always want a reputable sys admins
2477[16:35:31] <iodev> one who doesn't "cat /var/mail"
2478[16:35:53] <iodev> one with dignity :D
2479[16:36:06] *** Joins: trevorj_ (~trevorj@replaced-ip)
2480[16:36:30] <nemo> iodev: it's funny how many bots out there try to use IMAP/SMTP to attack ssh
2481[16:36:39] <iodev> there are some that use encfs
2482[16:36:43] <nemo> iodev: like I'm really going to use same creds for both...
2483[16:36:52] <nemo> but can see the pattern in my logs
2484[16:36:54] <jelly> 3 hours? Why have I spent years doing mail admin stuff
2485[16:37:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1540
2486[16:37:03] <iodev> jelly, 3 hours to set it up
2487[16:37:06] *** Joins: annadane (~annadane@replaced-ip)
2488[16:37:10] <iodev> maintenance is worse :D
2489[16:37:17] <nemo> jelly: well hopefully because you are pulling in $$ from dozens of clients
2490[16:37:19] <iodev> plus, this is for 1 person mail server or so
2491[16:37:22] <jelly> iodev: how does MDA unlock encfs for delivery, two keys?
2492[16:37:32] *** Joins: Eljotto (~Eljotto@replaced-ip)
2493[16:37:33] *** Quits: sigsts (~sigsts@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2494[16:37:33] <iodev> jelly, that's the flaw in such systems
2495[16:37:41] <iodev> the key is on the server, it unlocks on server boot
2496[16:37:48] *** Quits: kiriikp (~kiri@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2497[16:37:54] <noodlepie> replaced-url
2498[16:38:05] <iodev> it's security-theater
2499[16:38:08] <iodev> jelly
2500[16:38:30] <jelly> eh
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2502[16:38:40] <nemo> iodev: guess it has value if someone physically walks off with the box
2503[16:38:44] <nemo> iodev: or carelessly trashes it
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2506[16:38:52] <iodev> nemo, on a Cloud server :D
2507[16:38:54] *** Joins: chrios_ (~chris@replaced-ip)
2508[16:38:58] <nemo> ew
2509[16:39:09] <iodev> nemo, the cloud is the future
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2512[16:39:43] <iodev> get with the 21st century, no more sleeping to fans whirring, no more!!!!
2513[16:39:49] <nemo> iodev: have fun w/ rowhammer from the VM next door (and maybe spectre and meltdown too - esp meltdown)
2514[16:40:00] <iodev> my provider patched
2515[16:40:07] <nemo> they didn't patch rowhammer I'm sure
2516[16:40:25] <nemo> iodev: costs too much to offer dedicated memory
2517[16:40:32] <iodev> DigitalOcean patched meltdown, rowhammer is RAM thing, RAM is isolated
2518[16:40:44] <nemo> iodev: is it really! digitalocean does not share ram?
2519[16:40:53] *** Quits: jj- (juutiju@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2520[16:40:55] <nemo> iodev: figured most cloud providers did to save money
2521[16:40:57] <iodev> I mean Rowhammer is quickly flipping bits to make the ram have a mistake
2522[16:41:09] *** Quits: djj (djj@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2523[16:41:15] <nemo> iodev: yesss? and?
2524[16:41:17] <iodev> a bit improperly set, I don't see how this could affect me
2525[16:41:20] *** Quits: shoogz (~shoogz@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2526[16:41:29] <iodev> first of all, that'd be only in his KVM machine
2527[16:41:32] <nemo> iodev: there are several practical demo attacks against 2 VMs on same machine
2528[16:41:41] <nemo> iodev: if your cloud server is dedicated you are fine
2529[16:41:53] *** Quits: keith20 (~keith20@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
2530[16:41:55] <nemo> or does not share memory to increase number of VMs on machine
2531[16:41:57] * jelly points gently toward #debian-offtopic
2532[16:42:14] <nemo> ok ok
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2536[16:42:34] <iodev> nemo come to offtopic, by dedicated you mean, only me on hypervisor?
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2556[16:49:35] <annadane> how can i diagnose no sound for an application in wine? there isn't any sound in both wine and wine-development
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2562[16:50:45] <annadane> never mind; fixed it
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2566[16:51:11] <petn-randall> annadane: How did you fix it?
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2580[16:52:53] <me7zg3r> Greetings! Can someone help me with a special case of grub edit? :)
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2584[16:53:36] <teclo-> uhhhh you don't edit grub ! You got scripts and tools, they edit grub for you
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2586[16:53:43] <teclo-> or well they edit /boot/grub.cfg
2587[16:53:49] <me7zg3r> that is correct, I'm working on 40_custom
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2589[16:53:59] <me7zg3r> can't get it to work though
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2594[16:54:33] <me7zg3r> teclo-, are u up to help?
2595[16:54:38] <petn-randall> !ask
2596[16:54:38] <annadane> so i thought i had ran it both in wine and wine-development, but i then switched the default wine application to wine instead of wine-development and it generated the config file, it may work on both if you set either one as the default and allow it to generate config (also i had switched it from windows xp to windows 10, the application may only have sound in windows 10, the updated config may have updated to reflect
2597[16:54:38] <dpkg> If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
2598[16:54:38] <annadane> that)
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2606[16:55:13] <me7zg3r> Oh, hi, annadane!
2607[16:55:17] <me7zg3r> Nice to see ya again
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2611[16:56:08] <annadane> yeah so indeed if i set the wine default to wine-development, it generates the initial config and the application works with sound, in other words i get sound in both wine and wine-development now which as i said may be a consequence of switching it to windows 10
2612[16:56:10] <teclo-> me7zg3r: indeed working on 40_custom is the right way
2613[16:56:27] <me7zg3r> thank you :)
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2618[16:56:49] <me7zg3r> Anne, do you need some help?
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2620[16:56:57] <me7zg3r> i've been messing around with wine some time ago
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2622[16:57:06] <annadane> no, i fixed my own issue
2623[16:57:22] <me7zg3r> i'm looking into how to hook up kernels to boot clonezilla from hdd partition
2624[16:57:39] <me7zg3r> I've made an ext4 bootable partition with clonezilla.iso in it
2625[16:57:43] <annadane> wine just lags a little behind generating a new config sometimes and you need to make sure it actually does it, apparently by switching the default wine application
2626[16:57:49] <me7zg3r> now i'm trying to make the system grub recognize it
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2632[16:58:17] <me7zg3r> that's the right way to think, since it may only generate config on the switch
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2639[16:59:14] <me7zg3r> now, I know how to do it the dirty way -- just make it CSM-bootable and choose to boot the hdd
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2642[16:59:27] <me7zg3r> I just want to make it clean via the grub2 for the OS
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2648[17:00:47] <mmturk> how do i switch to network manager to manage networks? "systemctl enable/start NetworkManager" doesn't work
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2650[17:01:13] <me7zg3r> let me search on that
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2653[17:01:38] <mmturk> i did a minimal install initially, i believe systemd networkd is active
2654[17:02:01] <me7zg3r> you can check that with grep, right?
2655[17:02:34] <me7zg3r> try network-manager apt install --reinstall?
2656[17:02:37] <me7zg3r> i'm a newbie sorry
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2668[17:07:14] <annadane> i'm not sure why wine has 3 entries in update-alternatives
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2672[17:08:14] <me7zg3r> 3 forks maybe?
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2674[17:08:37] <me7zg3r> btw what do you need wine for?
2675[17:08:44] <annadane> a game
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2679[17:09:01] <me7zg3r> I've installed CS:GO on steam runtime and it went well :D
2680[17:09:20] <jelly> but which game?!?!
2681[17:09:26] <me7zg3r> I mean sometimes there are options to have it ok w/o wine
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2683[17:09:40] <me7zg3r> in the #grub noone is answering my questions, gotta learn dem manuals
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2685[17:10:17] <petn-randall> me7zg3r: You might want to just use 'grub-imageboot', that'll do all the details for you.
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2687[17:10:36] <me7zg3r> thank you for the hint, petn
2688[17:10:48] <petn-randall> me7zg3r: petn<tab>
2689[17:11:00] <me7zg3r> petn-randall, aha
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2742[17:34:57] <me7zg3r> the grub-imageboot thing didn't work out, petn-randall
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2744[17:35:16] <me7zg3r> update-grub recognized the img, though
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2746[17:36:49] <petn-randall> !doesnt work
2747[17:36:49] <dpkg> "Doesn't work" is a vague statement. Does it sit on the couch all day long? Does it procrastinate doing the dishes? Does it beg on the street for change? Please be specific! Define 'it' and what it isn't doing. Give us more details so we can help you without needing to ask basic questions like "what's the error message?". Ask me about <smart questions>, <sicco> and <errors>.
2748[17:36:59] <me7zg3r> haha :D
2749[17:37:24] <me7zg3r> I have it as a menuentry and it get's stuck, I wonder if there is a log file for that as I had to poweroff the machine from that state
2750[17:37:59] <teclo-> hey guys you should add to dpkg !doesntwork "Does it have a rich husband ?"
2751[17:38:11] <nemo> hum
2752[17:38:15] <me7zg3r> i've found this to be relevant to my problem as I'm also trying to boot a live thing replaced-url
2753[17:38:26] <me7zg3r> clonezilla live to be precise
2754[17:38:46] <me7zg3r> "Does it use darknet? :^)
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2757[17:40:55] <me7zg3r> here is a non-text-only link replaced-url
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2761[17:43:38] <jelly> trying to preseed libpam-runtime/profiles and run pam-auth-update, but it resets the value somehow. How do I debug it? "perl -d /usr/sbin/pam-auth-update --package" just runs the thing, presumably due to debconf shenanigans and process restart
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2764[17:45:25] <David_Hedlund> Why isn't bitcoin-qt or bitcoin-core packaged for Debian?
2765[17:45:38] <me7zg3r> ain't familiar with debugging, jelly
2766[17:45:58] <me7zg3r> David_Hedlund, cannot know that
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2770[17:47:24] <me7zg3r> i've tried grml-rescueboot, doesn't accomplish the task either
2771[17:47:49] <me7zg3r> both see the iso, yet menuentry does nothing, except with grub-imageboot I got stuck and grml throws me back at the menu
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2774[17:48:54] <petn-randall> ,why is bitcoin-qt not in testing
2775[17:48:55] <judd> No package named 'is' was found in stretch/amd64.
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2777[17:49:17] <me7zg3r> ,why bitcoin-qt not in testing
2778[17:49:18] <judd> No package named 'bitcoin-qt' was found in stretch/amd64.
2779[17:49:21] <petn-randall> !why is bitcoin-qt not in testing
2780[17:49:22] <dpkg> bitcoin-qt is not in testing for the reasons listed in replaced-url
2781[17:49:26] <petn-randall> David_Hedlund: ^^^
2782[17:49:35] <me7zg3r> excuses ^^
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2784[17:49:52] <petn-randall> David_Hedlund: The reasoning being that it needs to be updated regularly, and there's no LTS version.
2785[17:50:37] <jelly> found silly workaround: pretend to be a newly installed package. replaced-url
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2787[17:50:55] <jelly> not found: way to perl -d a perl script that deals with debconf
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2790[17:51:06] <David_Hedlund> petn-randall: Thank you very much.
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2795[17:51:50] <me7zg3r> how about my question case? should I file it on linuxquestions?
2796[17:52:12] *** Joins: epiflux (~epiflux@replaced-ip)
2797[17:52:47] <annadane> maybe or the mailing list: debian-user@lists.debian.org
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2801[17:53:16] <me7zg3r> I find it amazing that the community is tightly knit
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2805[17:54:08] <annadane> some of us are just addicted to irc and have nothing better to do
2806[17:54:23] <me7zg3r> still better than FB.com news
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2810[17:55:23] <me7zg3r> is it a common practice to switch from systemd to sysvinit on cinnamon?
2811[17:55:25] *** Olipro is now known as Guest37604
2812[17:55:28] <greycat> no
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2814[17:55:39] *** Joins: ww_ (~ww@replaced-ip)
2815[17:55:42] <me7zg3r> i've been trying to switch from gnome to cinnamon and crashed the whole system couple of times so I'd better ask
2816[17:55:50] <greycat> The common practice is to use whatever the default is, which in this case happens to be systemd.
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2819[17:56:10] <me7zg3r> well gnome is supposed to be the default for debian and it reboots 2 min :D
2820[17:56:18] *** Joins: Bookin (~Bookin@replaced-ip)
2821[17:56:26] <greycat> How does your choice of desktop environment intersect with your question about changing the init system?
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2824[17:56:55] <greycat> GNOME is not "the default", other than being pre-selected in tasksel in *some* of the installation images.
2825[17:56:58] <me7zg3r> that's a valid remark, I'm just sorting this as a similar tech. question I had on my mind previously, sorry
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2829[17:57:33] <me7zg3r> greycat, can you help me with imageboot?
2830[17:57:52] <greycat> Probably not. What is imageboot? Why did you pick me?
2831[17:58:05] *** Quits: him-cesjf (~cesjf@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2832[17:58:11] <me7zg3r> I've asked the other people previously
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2834[17:58:12] *** Joins: himcesjf_ (~cesjf@replaced-ip)
2835[17:58:18] <greycat> Stop asking people and ask the channel.
2836[17:58:23] <me7zg3r> gotcha
2837[17:58:31] *** Joins: noobineer (~noobineer@replaced-ip)
2838[17:58:35] <greycat> !imageboot
2839[17:58:41] <me7zg3r> !imageboot
2840[17:58:43] <greycat> no, he doesn't know either.
2841[17:58:52] <me7zg3r> I'm trying to setup either grub-imageboot or grml-rescueboot to no avail, task is to mount a hdd partition as clonezilla live
2842[17:59:06] <me7zg3r> using clonezilla stable live .iso
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2844[18:00:05] *** Joins: Cypher100 (~cypher@replaced-ip)
2845[18:00:18] <jelly> ,v grml-rescueboot
2846[18:00:19] <judd> Package: grml-rescueboot on amd64 -- wheezy: 0.4.2; jessie: 0.4.5; buster: 0.4.7; sid: 0.4.7; stretch: 0.4.7
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2849[18:00:33] <jelly> isn't that supposed to Just Work™
2850[18:00:51] <me7zg3r> it is, it finds the iso succesfully, yet doesn't boot it, just throws me at menu again
2851[18:01:12] <jelly> the iso probably needs to have certain things to make chainloading work
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2854[18:01:42] <jelly> you might try asking in #grml
2855[18:01:47] <me7zg3r> aight, thanks
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2867[18:09:53] <Guest13412> my terminal is repeating text
2868[18:09:56] <Guest13412> on the same line
2869[18:10:07] <Guest13412> how to fix
2870[18:10:13] <me7zg3r> could you please provide details
2871[18:10:20] *** Quits: Meteorite (~Prometeor@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2872[18:10:21] *** Quits: Meteor0ID (~Prometeor@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2873[18:10:21] <nkuttler> like, why should it not?
2874[18:10:27] <greycat> Lift your cat off of your keyboard. Next!
2875[18:10:34] <Guest13412> yes
2876[18:10:36] <Guest13412> solved
2877[18:10:48] <annadane> meow?
2878[18:10:56] <Guest13412> i broke the cats legs
2879[18:11:03] <Guest13412> he wont do it anymore
2880[18:11:05] <me7zg3r> posting bug report on cats on keyboard to the debian stretch subreddit
2881[18:11:17] *** zaruba is now known as nobody
2882[18:11:20] *** Quits: n4dir (~user@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving.)
2883[18:11:23] <greycat> Seriously, if you want help, give some friggin' DETAILS.
2884[18:11:29] *** Quits: shoogz (~shoogz@replaced-ip) (Quit: shoogz out)
2885[18:11:34] <Guest13412> dooooooood
2886[18:11:41] <Guest13412> same line !!!!!!!!!!
2887[18:11:48] <Guest13412> reapeats on the same line
2888[18:11:52] <greycat> If you think you're amusing, you're incorrect.
2889[18:11:55] <Guest13412> and erases itself
2890[18:12:07] <me7zg3r> can we !voteban someone here?
2891[18:12:17] *** Parts: ychaouche (~ychaouche@replaced-ip) ("Konversation terminated!")
2892[18:12:18] <paddy|> this is not ##
2893[18:12:23] *** Joins: conta (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
2894[18:12:41] *** Joins: fujisan (uid4207@replaced-ip)
2895[18:13:03] <petn-randall> Guest13412: Can you paste your terminal output on replaced-url
2896[18:13:22] *** Joins: shoogz (~shoogz@replaced-ip)
2897[18:13:25] <Guest13412> ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
2898[18:13:36] <greycat> When does this happen?
2899[18:13:56] <Guest13412> see theres is no hostname?
2900[18:14:15] <Guest13412> coz it got erases
2901[18:14:23] <Guest13412> anyhow ill just google it
2902[18:14:24] <petn-randall> Guest13412: This is getting boring. If you won't answer our questions you will get muted.
2903[18:14:25] <greycat> We see that you typed "s" a lot. We know NOTHING else about your problem because you have not given any DETAILS yet.
2904[18:14:32] <Guest13412> i think u guys r fkn monkeys
2905[18:14:35] <Guest13412> bye
2906[18:14:37] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o petn-randall
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2909[18:14:38] *** petn-randall sets mode: +q *!*@upldz.com
2910[18:14:38] *** petn-randall sets mode: -o petn-randall
2911[18:14:41] *** Parts: Guest13412 (~irssi@replaced-ip) ()
2912[18:14:53] <petn-randall> !next
2913[18:14:53] <dpkg> Another happy customer leaves the building.
2914[18:15:08] <BanHammor> jesus.
2915[18:15:18] <me7zg3r> Can I ask a Linux, yet not Debian-related question here?
2916[18:15:20] <greycat> "hostname" might have been an attempt to refer to his shell prompt
2917[18:15:32] * petn-randall shrugs.
2918[18:15:34] <greycat> but seriously, you can't be that stupid and use a Unix machine
2919[18:15:35] <jelly> me7zg3r: you can try
2920[18:15:36] <BanHammor> me7zg3r, probably, if the question is repeatable on debian
2921[18:15:51] <petn-randall> I doubt that person ran Debian, or had any interest in solving the issue.
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2925[18:16:33] <me7zg3r> I've accidentally nuked the gpt table for this hdd, so now I know I have information on the disk that isn't detectable, two ntfs disks and one ext4, is there a way to rescue the data?
2926[18:16:46] <me7zg3r> I've built a new gpt table to install the OS again
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2929[18:17:15] <jelly> if you recreate the exact same partition table the filesystems will be accessible again
2930[18:17:21] <BanHammor> you might be screwed on the part of the disk you wrote, but the rest can be salvaged by testdisk
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2936[18:18:20] <petn-randall> me7zg3r: Did you reboot since? If not, you can recover the GPT information from the kernel.
2937[18:18:26] <me7zg3r> unfortunately, I do not remember the exact sector start and end, though I haven't touched the approximate range, would testdisk work?
2938[18:18:34] *** Joins: Ticho_ (~Ticho@replaced-ip)
2939[18:18:38] <jelly> me7zg3r: best steps forward depend on how precisely did you "nuke the gpt table", and whether you wrote anything onto the same disk
2940[18:18:38] <me7zg3r> I have rebooted numerous times, yes
2941[18:19:01] <BanHammor> it helped me in a similar situation, so you might as well try
2942[18:19:04] <me7zg3r> I've wrote partitions on the same disks trying not to touch the undetectable area
2943[18:19:12] <me7zg3r> thank you, BanHammor
2944[18:19:12] <petn-randall> me7zg3r: testdisk will tell you where possible partitions start and end. However, if you had other filesystem on there in the past, it might also detect those.
2945[18:19:21] <jelly> "gpart" can be used to search for and guess partition starts and lengths
2946[18:19:33] *** Quits: Artox (~Artox@replaced-ip) (Excess Flood)
2947[18:19:35] <jelly> oh, testdisk does the same thing?
2948[18:19:46] *** Quits: Scytale89 (~Scytale@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2949[18:19:55] <me7zg3r> I'm better off with gpart though as it has integration with gparted
2950[18:20:16] *** Joins: Artox (~Artox@replaced-ip)
2951[18:20:27] <jelly> I wouldn't trust any "integration"
2952[18:20:36] <jelly> YMMV, your data
2953[18:20:39] *** Joins: snhmib (~jurjen@replaced-ip)
2954[18:21:00] *** Joins: Ishtv4n_ (~Ishtv4n@replaced-ip)
2955[18:21:01] <me7zg3r> gotcha
2956[18:21:14] *** Quits: Ticho (~Ticho@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2957[18:21:21] <BanHammor> i don't think gpart bills itself as "integrating with gparted"
2958[18:21:23] <jelly> gpart used to be a separate tool, completely unrelated to gparted
2959[18:21:29] *** Joins: Groenleer (~martijn@replaced-ip)
2960[18:21:37] <jelly> just a similar name
2961[18:21:46] <BanHammor> jelly, used to be? what happened?
2962[18:21:55] <me7zg3r> oh, that makes sense, I always wondered how do repositories deal with similar names
2963[18:22:13] <jelly> BanHammor: I do not know if anything happened
2964[18:22:28] <jelly> miht still be that way
2965[18:22:28] *** Joins: dionysus69 (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
2966[18:22:46] <BanHammor> repos just make packages with dash signs
2967[18:22:54] <me7zg3r> it is just that gparted has the "need gpart for that" line that got me confused those projects are dev-related
2968[18:23:09] <BanHammor> like "chromium" used to refer to the shmup game, and now that's "chromium-bsu"
2969[18:23:20] <jelly> not at all. gparted uses a dozen different tools behind its pretty UI
2970[18:23:29] <me7zg3r> yeah and pacman refers to the game and not the package manager from arch (might be mistaken)
2971[18:24:07] <me7zg3r> how do packages get into the repositories? is it moderated to protect from malicious software?
2972[18:24:10] *** Joins: blingrang (~blingrang@replaced-ip)
2973[18:24:13] *** Joins: well_laid_lawn (~Jean-luc@replaced-ip)
2974[18:24:28] <petn-randall> me7zg3r: yes, of course.
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2978[18:25:22] *** Joins: cvl (~cvl@replaced-ip)
2979[18:25:34] <petn-randall> me7zg3r: Only DDs (Debian Developers) can upload to the archive, and they have to contribute for months/years and need a reference from an existing DD to become one themselves.
2980[18:25:55] <me7zg3r> that's a nicely built "club" if I may say so myself
2981[18:26:06] <me7zg3r> side question: I remember repairing the DBus erorrs by installing the libicu.dev package, yet it took me hella lot of time to google that out, I don't understand the mechanism and it freaks me out a little bit
2982[18:26:08] <petn-randall> me7zg3r: And only the source gets uploaded, so DDs can't put malware in the binary, and have innocent source with it.
2983[18:26:22] <jelly> petn-randall: when did that (finally) happen?
2984[18:26:35] <jelly> source only uploads?
2985[18:27:00] <annadane> i never really liked the idea of arch users relying on the AUR
2986[18:27:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1547
2987[18:27:05] <annadane> though i know zero about it
2988[18:27:19] <me7zg3r> how can I start monitoring a window process to know it's not stuck? I have gpart /dev/sda running right now and I don't know whether it's stuck or not
2989[18:27:20] <petn-randall> me7zg3r: There's also an effort to make the whole archive build only reproducible, so that every build produces the same .deb. (identical bytes), so everyone can reproduce the archive independently.
2990[18:27:24] *** Joins: starch (~user@replaced-ip)
2991[18:27:52] <me7zg3r> that's a beautiful approach from a programming best-techniques standpoint
2992[18:28:10] <petn-randall> jelly: IIRC you can still upload the binary .deb, but it's just discarded and built again.
2993[18:28:13] <jelly> me7zg3r: open a separate shell and use monitoring tools to see if there's I/O or CPU activity from that process
2994[18:28:29] *** Joins: conta (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
2995[18:28:51] <jelly> me7zg3r: for I/O: atop, vmstat 1, iostat -x 1; for cpu: top
2996[18:29:00] <jelly> petn-randall: that's nice
2997[18:29:26] <BanHammor> we do run into the halting problem though with CPU and I/O :)
2998[18:29:43] <annadane> me7zg3r, replaced-url
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3000[18:29:53] *** Quits: hgnoel1980 (~hgnoel198@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
3001[18:29:55] <jelly> me7zg3r: if you see something using 100% io on /dev/sda, it's probably doing something
3002[18:29:58] <petn-randall> jelly: I recall reading about it, but replaced-url
3003[18:30:25] <eugenmayer1> i have a server being configured using DHCP. in syslog i see, that it is getting DHCP ack request about ever 15 minutes, again and again. Does this make any sense at all? replaced-url
3004[18:30:26] <me7zg3r> thank you, annadane
3005[18:30:49] <me7zg3r> oh, here is a good one
3006[18:31:10] <me7zg3r> I recall installing custom conky configs, that's being done via git-cloning and installing the conky config
3007[18:31:11] <eugenmayer1> an opnsense instance is running the DHCP server actually, seing that for some other servers too replaced-url
3008[18:31:13] *** Quits: hamersaw (~hamersaw@replaced-ip) (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
3009[18:31:16] <me7zg3r> security-wise, is that a bad practice?
3010[18:32:23] *** Quits: snhmib (~jurjen@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
3011[18:32:41] *** Quits: eberna (~eberna@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3012[18:32:43] <BanHammor> annadane, most aurs i've seen were either straight-from-upstream binary downloads or source-only downloads, with SHA sum checks and, occasionally, even GPG keys.
3013[18:32:50] <annadane> yeah that's fair
3014[18:33:16] <annadane> i have a lot of respect for arch as a project, they definitely do a lot of things properly
3015[18:33:20] <BanHammor> so theoretically, it can be secure, though i understand that it's probable not every user will inspect the PKGBUILD
3016[18:33:38] *** Joins: Brigo (~Brigo@replaced-ip)
3017[18:34:04] <me7zg3r> it is just that they make the community "boil" a bit, compared to debian-based "calm" user-friendly workflow
3018[18:34:20] <petn-randall> BanHammor: "straight-from-upstream binary downloads" sounds like a really bad idea, IMHO.
3019[18:34:31] *** Quits: shoogz (~shoogz@replaced-ip) (Quit: shoogz out)
3020[18:34:37] <BanHammor> it's what you do to install skype though
3021[18:34:45] <annadane> well, it's rolling compared to debian stable
3022[18:34:49] <annadane> different approaches
3023[18:34:51] * petn-randall doesn't install skype on his main machine.
3024[18:34:52] <me7zg3r> skype sounds like a really bad idea too, tho, imho
3025[18:35:36] <Exagone313> Hi, by default, can non-root users poweroff/restart? I'm using debian on a server, and I just thought about this potential problem. Thanks for your help.
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3028[18:36:08] <BanHammor> that's fair, but i can't say that everyone can go without instant messengers.
3029[18:36:19] <me7zg3r> I believe you can manage command-specific rights, although you can easily test that by checking the usergroups allowed to and/or login as non-root and test it extensively
3030[18:36:19] *** Joins: darkhanb (~textual@replaced-ip)
3031[18:36:24] <BanHammor> Exagone313, systemctl restart should work for everyone
3032[18:36:34] <BanHammor> (provided there are no other users logged on)
3033[18:36:42] *** Joins: hipp (~hipp@replaced-ip)
3034[18:36:51] <Exagone313> and how to prevent this?
3035[18:36:56] <annadane> skype isn't federated and therefore you need skype to talk to people using skype and microsoft and the nsa spy on your messages and blah blah blah federation is good promote federation so anyway off-topic
3036[18:37:01] <Exagone313> maybe I should ask in #systemd, idk
3037[18:37:02] *** Quits: Tiffon (~name@replaced-ip) (Quit: exit)
3038[18:37:24] <me7zg3r> Do the intel VT/Virtualization bios settings really help with VMware in linux; wine?
3039[18:37:32] *** Joins: Ishtv4n (~Ishtv4n@replaced-ip)
3040[18:37:44] *** Joins: libri (~Pidgin@replaced-ip)
3041[18:37:46] <me7zg3r> Exagone, check usergroups rights to execute commands?
3042[18:38:04] *** Joins: weems2 (~baggins@replaced-ip)
3043[18:38:07] <SwedeMike> me7zg3r: when I didn't enable them at least KVM ran at like 1/50th the speed.
3044[18:38:41] *** Quits: Ishtv4n_ (~Ishtv4n@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
3045[18:38:43] <me7zg3r> sorry, I could not follow, SwedeMike , what are "them"
3046[18:38:53] <jelly> Exagone313: if logged in at the console, systemd's session bits will allow reboot or shutdown. If logged in via ssh, nope
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3048[18:39:04] <SwedeMike> me7zg3r: "the intel VT/Virtualization bios settings"
3049[18:39:07] <Exagone313> I'm not sure whether I should restrict the systemctl program itself, only blocking poweroff, restart or maybe suspend should be fine
3050[18:39:31] <me7zg3r> aight, gotcha, afaik KVM is wine-similar solution? SwedeMike
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3052[18:39:44] <jelly> Exagone313: if you have untrusted users console access, they can probably just push the button
3053[18:39:52] <jelly> gave*
3054[18:39:56] <Exagone313> it's a server
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3056[18:40:03] <me7zg3r> beautiful approach, jelly, hardware access is a thing
3057[18:40:04] <jelly> servers have power buttons, too
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3059[18:40:12] <me7zg3r> Exagone313, log them in via ssh as it was suggested
3060[18:40:14] <Exagone313> I'm thinking of applications running on the server, not ssh access
3061[18:40:29] <jelly> Exagone313: what kind of applications?
3062[18:40:36] <Exagone313> daemons
3063[18:40:38] <brokencycle> Hi! I am having problems with a machine where apt so far insists on using /tmp to unpack packages, but where /tmp is too small to do that.
3064[18:40:42] <me7zg3r> from my standpoint of abilities and knowledge, I would create a custom user group with specified commands access
3065[18:40:48] <Exagone313> running via systemd units
3066[18:40:48] <jelly> Exagone313: those do not create login sessions
3067[18:41:16] <brokencycle> I would like to have apt use a different directory, but saying eg. Apt::Extracttemplates::Tempdir "/var/tmp"; has proven ineffective.
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3069[18:41:32] <jelly> Exagone313: so in general they won't be able to run "shutdown", unless they're running as root
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3071[18:41:44] <Exagone313> what's a login session?
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3074[18:42:05] <brokencycle> Which variable do I need to set to achieve the desired effect?
3075[18:42:10] <me7zg3r> Exagone313, would you consult manual on login sessions?
3076[18:42:10] <jelly> Exagone313: an environment created when someone logs in
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3078[18:42:21] <jelly> me7zg3r: which manual would that be?
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3080[18:42:28] <me7zg3r> true that
3081[18:42:41] <BanHammor> You should look at the polkit and logind documentation
3082[18:42:49] <rocketmagnet> hi all, when i have a process pid, is there a way i can find out the window it's using ?
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3084[18:43:12] <me7zg3r> windows usually have their PID shown, I can't recall where, tho
3085[18:43:19] <jelly> best avoid telling people to RTFM if you can't point them to the right M
3086[18:43:27] <me7zg3r> Understood :)
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3088[18:43:33] <Exagone313> what's the difference between a process running in a login session and... a process run by a init-like?
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3093[18:43:56] <Exagone313> maybe I could ask in ##posix but well
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3095[18:43:59] <BanHammor> one requires a user performed a login, the other doesn't.
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3098[18:44:40] <Exagone313> I'm not sure how it could have different rights if running with the same uid:gid, if not thinking about isolation capabilities of systemd
3099[18:44:51] <brokencycle> I mean, there is a suspicion that apt should honour TMPDIR or TEMPDIR, but I don't see a corresponding configuration option.
3100[18:45:12] <rocketmagnet> i have python2 open (ps -A) and it has an open port 54671, how can i find out what the port is for ??
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3109[18:47:18] <jelly> brokencycle: are you sure apt fills up your /tmp and not dpkg?
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3113[18:47:54] <jelly> dpkg's manual is explicit about supporting TMPDIR
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3115[18:48:31] <jelly> brokencycle: don't forget to export a variable to put it in environment of child processes
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3117[18:48:42] <BanHammor> brokencycle, could you pastebin the command you tried and its output?
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3119[18:49:01] <jelly> brokencycle: also, which debian release is this?
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3127[18:49:54] <brokencycle> @jelly, @BanHammor: The problem occurs during unattended-upgrades and is due to /tmp residing on a too-small /
3128[18:50:01] <BanHammor> to append to jelly's thing: don't forget that sudo doesn't pass environment variables, so you have to either sudo -i or pass them like sudo ENV_VAR_BLA=1 apt-get blabla
3129[18:50:09] <BanHammor> hm
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3134[18:50:57] <brokencycle> This is on stretch
3135[18:51:31] <BanHammor> you -could- just mount your tmp on a different partition, or even on a tmpfs
3136[18:51:32] <jelly> brokencycle: curious, how are you passing TMPDIR env var there?
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3138[18:52:05] <brokencycle> @BanHammor: nope, the machine is memory-strapped, too
3139[18:52:23] <BanHammor> is it also hdd-strapped in general?
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3142[18:52:42] <jelly> is it... /boot-strapped?
3143[18:52:56] <brokencycle> @jelly: I tried to Apt::Extracttemplates::Tempdir "/var/tmp";
3144[18:52:57] <BanHammor> replaced-url
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3146[18:53:07] <brokencycle> which seemed to be the closest thing, but to no avail.
3147[18:53:14] <jelly> brokencycle: that's just for debconf templates innit
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3151[18:54:04] <jelly> I have no idea how unattended-upgrades actually work and where and when is apt invoked from
3152[18:54:11] <brokencycle> @jelly: I looked through the config-index.gz, but no other option seemed to come close, and docs are scant on these, anyway.
3153[18:54:25] <brokencycle> I now tried to set the environment variable in a cron job.
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3155[18:54:47] <jelly> brokencycle: so can you show us where you put TMPDIR to be effective
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3158[18:55:44] <jelly> brokencycle: pastebin the relevant crontab file.
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3160[18:57:10] <jelly> brokencycle: can you get to the actual command line and output of apt somehow?
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3162[18:57:50] <brokencycle> I tried to set this in the apticron job, but could not yet really verify whether it works:
3163[18:57:53] <brokencycle> replaced-url
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3168[18:58:58] <greycat> You have misspelled TMPDIR.
3169[18:59:14] <kh0l> O/
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3171[19:00:12] <brokencycle> @greycat: True. But I only found this "option" to apt running this command, which suggests that TMPDIR should be equally useful:
3172[19:00:15] <brokencycle> strings /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libapt-pkg.so.5.0|grep -iE 'te?mp'
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3174[19:00:30] <brokencycle> s/TMPDIR/TEMPDIR/
3175[19:00:33] <brokencycle> :(
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3177[19:01:01] <brokencycle> Anyway, I've now set them both.
3178[19:01:18] <brokencycle> But I'd rather not just poke in the dark.
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3182[19:01:53] <jelly> it's TMPDIR. I've never seen TEMPDIR used.
3183[19:02:04] <annadane> off-topicish but a general comment, if you have a usb with the debian netinst on it i'd suggest replacing it every point release; i had some issues with the 9.2 (i think) net install and never updated it to 9.3/9.4 because i assumed it was all equal
3184[19:02:20] <greycat> using random strings that you find by running strings(1) on random libraries is probably not the best approach to problem solving
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3187[19:03:04] <jelly> it does betray an amount of despair tho :-)
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3190[19:04:40] <brokencycle> jelly: If you run the 'strings' command, you'll find both names being used.
3191[19:05:09] <greycat> But that doesn't tell you HOW the program uses that string.
3192[19:05:16] <jelly> those might be easter eggs for all I know
3193[19:05:58] <jelly> and dpkg is the one doing most of the unpacking, it is not linked with libapt-pkg.so
3194[19:05:58] <brokencycle> greycat: True. However, lacking any man page and not having made a tour through the source code yet, it's my best bet.
3195[19:06:11] <brokencycle> I mean: lacking any statement in the man page...
3196[19:06:13] <greycat> and dpkg's man page lists TMPDIR
3197[19:06:25] <jelly> well, dpkg-deb
3198[19:06:54] <jelly> not sure
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3217[19:15:27] <me7zg3r> I find gpart being slow as his READ is 70MB when the SSD supports more, any thoughts on that?
3218[19:16:01] <BanHammor> pegged by CPU?
3219[19:17:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1544
3220[19:17:04] <me7zg3r> bottlenecked? oh yes
3221[19:17:13] <me7zg3r> cpu usage is 100
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3227[19:20:15] <me7zg3r> gpart hint worked out perfectly, it has now detected some of the lost partitions
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3243[19:27:45] <me7zg3r> what would you guys advise from a security&performance standpoint: customize Firefox (or another browser) or use a privacy/security preconfigured browser e.g. Brave?
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3246[19:28:40] <greycat> Use a standard, stable, supported browser like firefox-esr, and use an ad blocker like ublock origin. If you're really paranoid, use NoScript.
3247[19:29:06] <me7zg3r> Does that provide the same amount of security/privacy as, say, Tor Browser?
3248[19:29:16] <greycat> "privacy"
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3250[19:29:27] <greycat> ...
3251[19:29:30] <beastwick789> no, TOR is a different beast.
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3253[19:30:20] <epiflux> me7zg3r, no.
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3255[19:30:34] <annadane> this is hard for me to answer as i switched to waterfox
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3261[19:32:23] <jelly> me7zg3r: if you want security isolate your browser as completely as you can from the rest of the system. That probably means going qubes instead of debian
3262[19:32:29] <greycat> You immediately lose all credibilty with me when you mention Tor, because in my experience, Tor is used by spammers and trolls and other evil fucking twat-heads to inflict harm upon others.
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3267[19:32:50] <me7zg3r> uh-oh, sorry about that
3268[19:32:54] <jelly> greycat: knives are used to kill people every day
3269[19:32:59] <annadane> well... tor itself is perfectly legitimate
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3271[19:33:06] <me7zg3r> Tor is also used by journalists and politicians for safety
3272[19:33:13] <greycat> Sure it s.
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3274[19:33:56] <BanHammor> i use tor to circumvent my country's censorship laws, hi
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3276[19:34:03] <me7zg3r> let's not dig ourself into the whole privacy vs hiding discussion
3277[19:34:29] <jelly> NSA made Tor specifically to make illegal activity easier, that's a feature not a bug, and if trolls use it, it means it's doing its job well
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3281[19:35:20] <epiflux> tor has plenty of perfectly legitimate legal uses.
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3283[19:35:46] <annadane> anyway my own view is that mozilla's done a few questionable things, thus i switched, i don't know how well it's curated in debian's firefox-esr
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3291[19:38:18] <annadane> tor itself is also a bit niche and can cause casual users headaches though you can adjust the security slider
3292[19:38:26] <annadane> it's not _required_, but is an option
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3299[19:44:21] <epiflux> most of the problems are related to turned-off javascript (it's on by default) and banned exit nodes. but it's offtopic here i guess.
3300[19:45:09] <annadane> well javascript is always going to be an area of stupidity
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3360[20:15:14] <me7zg3r> gpart somehow detected the two legacy ntfs ghost partitions and ended in a fatal error in seek
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3363[20:15:49] <me7zg3r> what would be the right next steps?
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3377[20:26:34] <jhutchins_wk> me7zg3r: What is it you're trying to do?
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3390[20:32:19] <me7zg3r> restoring partitions after a nuked gpt table (rewritten gpt, same area hasnt been modified)
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3420[20:42:32] <jhutchins_wk> me7zg3r: Do you have a plan to make regular backups going forward?
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3423[20:43:21] <me7zg3r> yeah that's the main point
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3436[20:46:48] <Delta706> Are there any problems with enabling "contrib"? It was not enabled by default
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3439[20:47:19] <greycat> !contrib
3440[20:47:19] <dpkg> [contrib] Debian packages that contain <DFSG>-compliant software, but have dependencies not in main (possibly packaged for Debian in non-free). To get contrib packages, add lines like "deb replaced-url
3441[20:47:53] <annadane> no "problems" unless you want packages in contrib
3442[20:48:02] <greycat> Usually contrib is pointless by itself, but you may use it along with non-free.
3443[20:48:15] <me7zg3r> might that be that contrib packages are potentially harmful?
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3445[20:48:36] <greycat> There might be a VERY small number of packages that you can use from contrib without enabling non-free, e.g. things that download a binary from the web and install that.
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3448[20:48:39] <annadane> depends where you fall on the scale of paranoia
3449[20:48:50] <me7zg3r> a solid 8.5
3450[20:49:09] <annadane> but like, the emacs documentation is in non-free because it has invariant sections
3451[20:49:15] <annadane> it's not malicious
3452[20:49:16] <Delta706> I just did "contrib" but not "non-free" and successful got vbox installed
3453[20:49:49] <greycat> ok, maybe it's a less small number than I thought
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3455[20:50:02] <Delta706> If there are no problems with contrib, why not enable it by default?
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3458[20:50:34] <me7zg3r> it was already stated before
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3461[20:51:02] <annadane> debian is 100% free by default
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3464[20:51:28] <greycat> same reason you have to go out of your way to get the non-free firmware blobs to make your craptop hardware work
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3466[20:51:40] <johnfg> hi folks
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3468[20:51:59] <Delta706> to encourage people to make things fully free?
3469[20:52:13] <johnfg> I've got some php problems with some web pages since upgrading from jessie->stretch.
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3471[20:52:21] <me7zg3r> to fulfill the wish of people that only opt for free software
3472[20:52:33] <me7zg3r> 'cause proprietary doesn't allow modifications or even uses secrets
3473[20:52:39] <johnfg> Is there a way to downgrade what version of php is being used?
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3475[20:52:43] <me7zg3r> hash tag there are no secrets in linux
3476[20:52:47] <annadane> !tell Delta706 about social contract
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3479[20:53:22] <greycat> johnfg: /msg dpkg downgrade
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3495[20:57:05] <kritterr> Installed Kali to a USB stick - not live, but as a drive - and initramfs keeps trying to boot /dev/sdd1 instead of /dev/sda1, which is where my root partition is. How do I fix it?
3496[20:57:13] <greycat> !kali
3497[20:57:13] <dpkg> Kali Linux (replaced-url
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3500[20:57:57] <kritterr> ty.
3501[20:58:03] <kritterr> (and I apologize)
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3505[21:01:11] <johnfg> greycat: Ok, downgrading doesn't look promising.
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3507[21:01:43] <johnfg> greycat: Looking more closely at the errors on the webpage, I realize the problem is with mysql/mariadb (which is *not* installed).
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3510[21:02:20] <johnfg> I've read the notes, but am not sure what the next step should be. mysql.service starts and immediately exits.
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3512[21:02:55] <greycat> Next step? journalctl -u mysql.service
3513[21:03:20] <greycat> or (as root) systemctl status mysql.service
3514[21:03:36] <greycat> doing it as root gives more info than non-root
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3522[21:05:41] <johnfg> greycat: Here's both cmds: replaced-url
3523[21:05:56] <johnfg> Should mariadb be installed?
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3568[21:19:06] <johnfg> Sorry to take off without a ttfn. I rebooted, and mysql/mariadb both seem okay.
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3570[21:19:32] <johnfg> However, still getting screwy results on the web page
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3575[21:22:17] <Delta706> johnfg: what kind of results?
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3577[21:23:43] <johnfg> Delta706: replaced-url
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3579[21:24:24] <johnfg> Delta706: It sorta looks to me like it's still a database problem, but I'm not sure.
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3583[21:26:00] <johnfg> Delta706: I just tried to access phpmyadmin, and it's all screwed up also. So, mysql/mariadb wasn't my only problem (I don't think), it may be something with php.
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3590[21:28:38] <jhutchins_wk> johnfg: The problems are with web pages you're serving, right?
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3593[21:30:26] <jhutchins_wk> ,v php
3594[21:30:27] <judd> Package: php on amd64 -- stretch: 1:7.0+49; buster: 1:7.2+60; sid: 1:7.2+60
3595[21:30:36] <jhutchins_wk> ,v php5
3596[21:30:37] <judd> Package: php5 on amd64 -- wheezy: 5.4.45-0+deb7u2; wheezy-security: 5.4.45-0+deb7u13; jessie: 5.6.30+dfsg-0+deb8u1; jessie-proposed-updates: 5.6.33+dfsg-0+deb8u1; jessie-security: 5.6.33+dfsg-0+deb8u1
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3601[21:33:31] <jhutchins_wk> johnfg: You may find this useful: replaced-url
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3603[21:34:41] <jhutchins_wk> johnfg: Maybe check the readme files in /usr/share/doc/<package> to see if they have any info on migration, or check their upstream projects.
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3614[21:37:37] <jhutchins_wk> ,v phpmyadmin
3615[21:37:38] <judd> Package: phpmyadmin on amd64 -- wheezy: 4:3.4.11.1-2+deb7u2; wheezy-security: 4:3.4.11.1-2+deb7u8; jessie: 4:4.2.12-2+deb8u2; jessie-security: 4:4.2.12-2+deb8u2; stretch: 4:4.6.6-4; buster: 4:4.6.6-5; sid: 4:4.6.6-5
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3617[21:38:34] <jhutchins_wk> johnfg: Per replaced-url
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3631[21:44:13] <johnfg> jhutchins_wk: Thanks, I'll work on it, but have to run to 2nd job.
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3702[22:22:21] <SanchoPensa> yo guys!
3703[22:22:30] <me7zg3r> yo my dude
3704[22:23:34] <SanchoPensa> i am looking to create a comic, in other words, i want to copy some pics into a an empty canvas and then add a few speech bubbles.
3705[22:23:34] <SanchoPensa> One should think, that the task is fairly easy, but I am meanwhile aggravated in a way, that I am willing to use imgflip.
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3707[22:23:55] <SanchoPensa> can you please tell me what "brilliant" linux software I can use for this kindergarden task?
3708[22:23:59] <annadane> gimp or krita can probably do that
3709[22:24:11] <SanchoPensa> annadane: no, gimp can not.
3710[22:24:12] <annadane> with krita being more user-friendly interface
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3712[22:24:29] <SanchoPensa> at least not in a way, so, that i can handle it.
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3714[22:25:15] <me7zg3r> replaced-url
3715[22:25:35] <me7zg3r> ah, I remember the good old days with the site lmgtfy
3716[22:25:50] <SanchoPensa> annadane: krita looks good, thanks for the hint, bro!
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3718[22:28:26] <SanchoPensa> annadane: err, sis? :D
3719[22:29:31] <hypn0> why can't gimp :-/
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3725[22:32:07] <hypn0> replaced-url
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3744[22:38:41] <ejr> is it possible to deactivate a laptop's screen when using an external monitor?
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3746[22:39:52] <me7zg3r> yes it is, I believe a script/driver/config is writeable to enable that feature
3747[22:40:07] <petn-randall> ejr: Sure, just disable it in your desktop's settings.
3748[22:40:24] <ejr> petn-randall: I don't have a gui installed
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3751[22:42:20] <petn-randall> ejr: ah, no idea then.
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3753[22:43:53] <ejr> me7zg3r: ok, thx, i couldnt find one so far but will keep looking
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3755[22:44:36] <me7zg3r> sometimes you just have to be the first one :(
3756[22:44:50] <me7zg3r> i'm a proud owner of a prestigio gaming mouse -- trully a masterpiece
3757[22:44:53] <me7zg3r> no drivers on linux tho
3758[22:45:17] <me7zg3r> please tell me tf im doing wrong, tryin to read manual aint helpin gpart -wEfvns -k 1785800 -b /home/me7zg3r/gpartlog
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3760[22:45:40] <ejr> me7zg3r: been there, done that :D once had similar issues with the mad catz rat 3 gaming mouse (back years ago when i was still a gamer)
3761[22:45:59] <me7zg3r> did you write dem drivers?
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3763[22:46:14] <ejr> not entirely, but had to adapt one
3764[22:46:31] <me7zg3r> maybe i should run a VMwin for drivers ^^
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3766[22:46:46] <me7zg3r> afaik vmwin doesnt support hardware access tho
3767[22:47:06] <me7zg3r> kvm had some development in that direction
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3778[22:50:19] <ewew> hi. is the gpu in A10-9700 supported in debian ?
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3781[22:52:08] <ewew> I have checked the package firmware-amd-graphics and there is a mention of R5/R7 200 IGP
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3785[22:53:01] <ewew> does anyone have any info on this cpu with apu ?
3786[22:53:07] *** Joins: solaris (~solaris@replaced-ip)
3787[22:53:09] <me7zg3r> im googlin
3788[22:53:45] <ewew> ok. i just want to confirm i've picked the right components.
3789[22:54:29] <ewew> according this replaced-url
3790[22:54:39] <me7zg3r> that seems to be correct
3791[22:54:59] <ewew> but it does't state which one. 200 , 300 and etc.
3792[22:55:04] <me7zg3r> do you have that hardware installed or are you currently choosing to buy?
3793[22:55:20] *** Joins: err404 (~err404@replaced-ip)
3794[22:55:24] <ewew> im in state before buying.
3795[22:55:33] <me7zg3r> that's good to know
3796[22:55:49] <me7zg3r> haha when u google amd 9th gen it shows up intel in google
3797[22:55:59] *** Quits: srg___ (~srg@replaced-ip) (Quit: srg___)
3798[22:56:15] <ewew> I want to put it in this motherboard ASUS PRIME A320M-K
3799[22:56:15] <me7zg3r> is that a laptop we're talkin about?
3800[22:56:15] *** Joins: vidarr (~vidr@replaced-ip)
3801[22:56:20] <me7zg3r> aha gotcha
3802[22:56:22] *** Joins: zarez (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
3803[22:56:32] <ewew> no. its a clasic pc setup.
3804[22:56:35] *** Quits: deltam_ (~deltam@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3805[22:56:35] *** Quits: Al_lA (~derwhalfi@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3806[22:56:36] *** Joins: Soul_Eater (~marcelo@replaced-ip)
3807[22:56:40] <me7zg3r> can we talk privately? i dont wish to flood
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3809[22:56:48] *** Quits: crimson_king (~NEOalquim@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
3810[22:56:56] <ewew> ok.
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3823[23:00:48] <annadane> me7zg3r, that's a support question and hence not flooding
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3828[23:02:00] <me7zg3r> ewew basically looks if there are debian drivers for the A10-9700 gpu
3829[23:02:28] <me7zg3r> I'm not well familiar with the whole driver thing, however I've found A10-9700E for Dell desktop in the ubuntu repos
3830[23:03:01] <ewew> ok. if its mentioned in the firmware package, then it should be clear.
3831[23:05:34] <me7zg3r> different cpus tho
3832[23:05:36] <annadane> things which are technical should really be discussed in channels, not in private, more chance of somebody knowing the answer and us learning something
3833[23:05:48] <me7zg3r> that is correct
3834[23:05:57] <me7zg3r> I just cant brag about intel in the channel :)
3835[23:06:19] <Sir_Designer> is it classified intel?
3836[23:06:28] <me7zg3r> Intel the company
3837[23:06:35] <annadane> thatsthejoke.jpg
3838[23:06:54] <me7zg3r> I need a poster with the word joke sometimes, sorry x)
3839[23:07:00] *** Joins: downtime (~downtime@replaced-ip)
3840[23:07:09] <me7zg3r> technically, intel is classified
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3848[23:11:33] <annadane> ewew, what does lspci -nn say for the gpu?
3849[23:11:52] <ewew> its not yet assembled.
3850[23:12:04] <annadane> ah, all right then
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3856[23:13:17] <me7zg3r> how about some kernel-writing action for a not-yet-installed cpu? :^)
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3865[23:16:14] <me7zg3r> Did I get it right, that "amd flaws" exactly is an consistency between AMD and a non-free, unmodifiable software?
3866[23:16:19] <me7zg3r> hm, really makes you think
3867[23:16:29] <me7zg3r> unconsistency**
3868[23:17:01] <annadane> i don't know what you were referring to
3869[23:17:18] <me7zg3r> replaced-url
3870[23:17:39] <annadane> that's widely understood to be a malicious hit campaign
3871[23:17:46] <annadane> and not really trustworthy
3872[23:18:09] <me7zg3r> what does "malicious hit" mean?
3873[23:18:23] *** Joins: hbautista_ (~hbautista@replaced-ip)
3874[23:18:37] <me7zg3r> oh, malicious hit on AMD, I get it
3875[23:18:39] *** Quits: electro33 (uid613@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
3876[23:19:04] <me7zg3r> my deepest sorrow is the fact Intel was never persecuted for reverse-engineering the 64bit arch
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3882[23:21:04] *** Quits: hbautista_ (~hbautista@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
3883[23:21:11] <Tenkawa> /quit
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3887[23:22:32] *** Quits: me7zg3r (~me7zg3r@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
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3889[23:22:42] <jhutchins_wk> me7zg3r: A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing. I think you may have misunderstood some things.
3890[23:22:46] *** Joins: me7zg3r (~me7zg3r@replaced-ip)
3891[23:23:02] *** Quits: Vizva (~Vizva@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3892[23:23:18] <jhutchins_wk> me7zg3r: They didn't reverse-engineer it, they license it.
3893[23:23:48] <me7zg3r> they got it to work a year after AMD tho
3894[23:23:57] *** Joins: clopez (~tau@replaced-ip)
3895[23:24:14] <me7zg3r> replaced-url
3896[23:24:26] <ewew> Integrated graphics GPU Type: Radeon R7 series
3897[23:24:26] <ewew> Microarchitecture: 3rd Gen Graphics Core Next
3898[23:24:26] <ewew> Shader cores: 384
3899[23:24:26] <ewew> Base frequency (MHz): 1029
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3901[23:24:58] *** Quits: vidarr (~vidr@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3902[23:25:06] <ewew> according to this. it should be R7 series 300. refering to line 3rd gen graphics.
3903[23:25:36] *** Quits: ald3baran (uid231815@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
3904[23:25:44] <me7zg3r> sounds right
3905[23:26:32] *** Quits: Tom_- (~tomg@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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3909[23:26:45] *** Quits: greycat (~wooledg@replaced-ip) (Quit: They see me clawin' the love seat / They won't do nothin' 'cause I'm cute and furry)
3910[23:26:57] <ewew> your refering to that is should attempt to compile my own kernel ?
3911[23:27:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1548
3912[23:27:39] <me7zg3r> I mean you always have that as a last resort
3913[23:27:45] <ewew> ok.
3914[23:28:10] <ewew> or go back to drawing board. :D
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3919[23:31:15] <kliptcowings> anyone now how to fix this? replaced-url
3920[23:32:39] <kliptcowings> or where to look :p
3921[23:33:02] *** Quits: shoogz (~shoogz@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3922[23:33:15] <annadane> !bat
3923[23:33:15] <dpkg> In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use replaced-url
3924[23:33:34] <annadane> certainly apt-cache policy by itself would be helpful
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3926[23:34:34] *** Quits: snhmib (~jurjen@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
3927[23:34:34] <kliptcowings> replaced-url
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3934[23:36:25] <me7zg3r> Dear dears, are those arguments valid to rescue data? (rewrite on same place) gpart -Ev -w ntfs,1.5 -k 1785800 -b /home/me7zg3r/gpartlog /dev/sda
3935[23:36:43] *** Quits: Slashman (~Slash@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
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3947[23:42:10] <annadane> ,v mysql-workbench
3948[23:42:11] <judd> Package: mysql-workbench on amd64 -- wheezy: 5.2.40+dfsg-2; jessie: 6.2.3+dfsg-7; stretch: 6.3.8+dfsg-1; sid: 6.3.10+dfsg-2
3949[23:42:26] <annadane> ,v libctemplate3
3950[23:42:27] <judd> Package: libctemplate3 on amd64 -- buster: 2.3-3+b1; sid: 2.3-3+b1; stretch: 2.3-3+b1
3951[23:42:41] <annadane> let me not spam the channel with that
3952[23:43:08] <annadane> anyway, better for klipt to just post the output
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3960[23:48:28] *** Quits: silverballz (~hidden@replaced-ip) (Quit: One for all, all for One (2 Corinthians 5))
3961[23:48:42] <ChmEarl> the debian jessie compiler (gcc-4.9) with retpoline support is installed from jessie-backports?
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3966[23:49:38] <annadane> ,v gcc
3967[23:49:39] <judd> Package: gcc on amd64 -- wheezy: 4:4.7.2-1; jessie: 4:4.9.2-2; stretch: 4:6.3.0-4; buster: 4:7.2.0-1d1; sid: 4:7.3.0-2
3968[23:49:51] <annadane> ,v gcc-4.9
3969[23:49:52] <judd> Package: gcc-4.9 on amd64 -- jessie: 4.9.2-10; jessie-proposed-updates: 4.9.2-10+deb8u1; jessie-security: 4.9.2-10+deb8u1
3970[23:49:59] <annadane> nope
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3974[23:50:35] *** Quits: well_laid_lawn (~Jean-luc@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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3976[23:51:57] *** Quits: f4cl3y (~f4cl3y@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
3977[23:52:41] <ewew> Any idea where to find out which serie is in the A10 9700 ?
3978[23:52:56] *** Quits: rpifan (~rpifan@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3979[23:53:00] <ewew> *of gpu ?
3980[23:53:09] *** Quits: Modeuse (~kvirc@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 263 seconds)
3981[23:53:14] *** Joins: rpifan (~rpifan@replaced-ip)
3982[23:54:00] <ewew> The more info i find the more im not sure.
3983[23:54:14] <me7zg3r> that
3984[23:54:22] <me7zg3r> that's exactly my idea
3985[23:55:11] <me7zg3r> it sais
3986[23:55:11] <me7zg3r> Graphics Model
3987[23:55:11] <me7zg3r> Radeon™ R7 Series
3988[23:55:18] <bites> ewew: replaced-url
3989[23:55:19] <me7zg3r> says*
3990[23:55:23] <me7zg3r> yeah
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3995[23:56:56] *** Joins: dArK_IcE (~lawl@replaced-ip)
3996[23:56:59] <ewew> is it R7 200 or else ?
3997[23:57:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1536
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