4[04:18:05] <tjnycum> i'm trying to use OBS to build the
stretch-backports version of dh-autoreconf. the build is failing
with an error about being "unable to load addon autoreconf:
Can't locate Debian/Debhelper/Sequence/autoreconf.pm in
@INC" (build log:
replaced-url
5[04:18:05] <tjnycum> &suite=stable&arch=any) that
file is supposed to be provided by the very package it's
building. can anyone help?
28[04:45:43] *** Quits: PewPew (~f@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
29[04:48:36] <jaggz> after upgrade dist-upgrade I have a
million packages that haven't been configured (shown in dpkg
-C) -- what lets me configure all of them?
30[04:48:43] <jaggz> I'm supposed to configure all of them
yeah?
31[04:49:04] <jaggz> it says to use dpkg --configure or the
configure menu option in dselect
42[05:01:13] <Maxis> Hey all, I've got a little dilemma.
When I installed Debian it deemed itself unable to use my built-in
wifi card, something about non-free drivers. I've tried going
for an old wifi dongle (really ancient, NETGEAR WG111v2) to get
around that, and it displays the WiFi networks as it should, but in
attempting to connect to any of them it just gives up eventually. I
can give more information if anyone would be able to give me a hand
43[05:01:13] <Maxis> here, my google-fu got me nowhere.
46[05:06:37] <victorqueiroz> Now my system doesn't work
properly anymore after installing mesa drivers from
stretch-backports. Can't log in using GNOME on Xorg and Blender
doesn't open anymore
47[05:06:38] <victorqueiroz> Weird!
48[05:07:05] <somiaj> Maxis: most likely you just needed
non-free firmawre and your card would have worked just fine.
49[05:07:24] <diogenes_> Maxis, reboot router, try with dongle
again.
50[05:07:26] <somiaj> victorqueiroz: I think with your hardware
and what you are doing you should just run buster. Stretch is going
to just not have current enough software.
51[05:07:27] <victorqueiroz> All the Vulkan examples works just
fine on my Lenovo Yoga L380 btw. So apparently it's the AMD GPU
open-source drivers that are outdated in Debian stable.
53[05:09:00] <somiaj> are you also running the kernel from
backports?
54[05:09:32] <somiaj> Yea as I said initially, there has been
lots of development in the whole stack, mesa, libvulkan, even the
kernel, and sure this stuff is avaialble in stretch-backports, I
would just use buster as it is almost released
55[05:09:33] <victorqueiroz> somiaj: Yes (4.19 and also tried
with 5.0 from experimental)
56[05:09:49] <victorqueiroz> somiaj: ok, will try that.
57[05:10:10] <victorqueiroz> Can I download it from here:
replaced-url
58[05:10:24] <somiaj> I think there is one, you can also just
dist-upgrade your current system to buster
65[05:15:12] *** Quits: dez (uid92154@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
66[05:17:38] <somiaj> debian is designed to be upgraded from
one release to another. This works in most cases (but as always
backup as there can be complications).
67[05:17:49] <somiaj> For the most part there wont' be,
one should read the release notes for known issues.
74[05:22:37] <tjnycum> has anyone here ever configured a debian
repo as DOD repo for an OBS instance?
75[05:24:27] <Maxis> thanks you guys, it seems obvious after
you said that somiaj that I should just hook my laptop up through my
phone tether and get the non-free firmware, got the internal wifi
card up and running now
76[05:24:37] *** Quits: corvo (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Disconnected by services)
86[05:30:24] <dpkg> sed is a stream editor that can perform
text transformations on a file or a pipeline. it is not that easy to
learn but it is a very powerful tool once mastered. See
replaced-url
92[05:36:03] <Cristine98> I am super horny & wet. Join
& watch my Live and let's have fun together. The fun is
guaranteed, boys. Link --->
replaced-url
108[05:41:29] *** Quits: leorat (~rat@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
109[05:44:39] <jmcnaught> !stable-updates
110[05:44:39] <dpkg> [stretch-updates] a suite providing updates
to some packages (from <proposed-updates>) prior to a
<point release>. All packages from stretch-updates will be
included in point releases.
replaced-url
111[05:45:10] <jmcnaught> !stretch-backports
112[05:45:10] <dpkg> Some packages intended for Buster (Debian
10) but recompiled for use with Stretch (Debian 9) can be found in
the stretch-backports repository. See
replaced-url
126[05:54:10] *** Quits: itamarst (uid165457@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
127[05:54:25] <iwkse> hi, I have a strange behaviour, when I add
the $HOME/bin the builtin commands seems to use that path and I get
no such file or directory. Commenting the lines in .profile makes it
work ok? Any hint?
175[06:32:54] <somiaj> Maxis: for future reffrence debian
provides an unoffical non-free installer because of this issue.
Debian likes to give users the choice, but will always ensure that
the main debian packages are free in terms of the DFSG. As such for
those who want (or need) to use non-free software, there is an extra
hoop.
176[06:33:33] *** Quits: iflema (~iflema@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
198[06:49:10] <jaggz> says it has a symbol lookup error ...
libpango2-1. 0.so.0 undefined symbol hb_variation_from_string
199[06:49:40] <jaggz> blah. libpangoft2-1. 0.so.0
200[06:50:08] <somiaj> victorqueiroz: good, yea stretch is just
a bit old for both your hardawre and vulcan on it. Glad the upgrade
and everything got you what you needed
202[06:50:29] <somiaj> victorqueiroz: note, you won't have
any security support with buster for another few weeks. This should
be fine, but just something to be aware of.
203[06:51:01] <somiaj> jaggz: sounds like you have some libaries
that aren't matching the build time of vim. Are you positive
that everything is fully upgraded to buster?
215[06:59:58] <jaggz> both of those come from buster and are at
the latest
216[07:00:04] <somiaj> In this case track down the libary that
vim is linking too and make sure it is from the package and the
version for buster.
217[07:00:14] <jaggz> vim and l8bo.. ft2
218[07:00:30] <jaggz> (typing on phone)
219[07:01:59] <somiaj> so vim is something you compiled yourself
(and not form the debian package)?
220[07:02:15] <jaggz> no. packages.
221[07:02:23] <jaggz> from buster
222[07:02:59] <_CM_> in debian KDE is there a way to change the
time on the log in screen from Military time?
223[07:03:15] <jaggz> i reinstalled the pango package too.. in
case that library was somehow screwed up (searched to make sure what
it came from)
224[07:03:24] <somiaj> _CM_: can you right click on clock and
get a settings window?
225[07:03:48] <_CM_> somiaj: its on the sign in screen when you
first boot into debian
226[07:04:15] <somiaj> jaggz: could be an old link too, I
don't know the linking tools well enough to give you commands
to try to tack this down. But you need to figure out exactly which
libpango file vim is linking to when it runs.
227[07:04:35] <somiaj> _CM_: ahh, so this won't be KDE,
this will be your display manager. I think kde uses ssdm now, look
up how to configure that.
228[07:04:55] <_CM_> somiaj: I just looked under startup and I
dont see anything to change the clock
229[07:05:28] <somiaj> startup is apps run at startup.
230[07:05:33] <somiaj> You need to configure the display manager
231[07:06:41] <somiaj> from what google is giving me, there is
no nice gui for this, you'll have to edit some sddm
theme/config files to make this change.
232[07:07:08] <somiaj> hmm, okay looks like it could be your
locale
241[07:10:02] <somiaj> jaggz: it is probably not detecting the
right kernel and you need to point it at the headers for the actual
kernel you are running now.
252[07:12:23] <somiaj> jaggz: if you notice other wierd issues
like this and due to the fact your upgrade had various problems. You
may find it easier to just backup $HOME (and other data you find
pertenant) and reinstall.
253[07:12:40] <somiaj> as opposed to track down all the issues
and fix them. Though you can learn a lot, I would start googling
around.
254[07:12:44] <jaggz> how do I pick which display driver is
used? nouveau package is still installed
255[07:14:19] <somiaj> nouveaus is alyways installed (it is part
of the kernel). But the nvidia driver should blacklist it (I really
suggest using the debian packages for this) so nvidia is then used
isntead.
256[07:14:36] <somiaj> so you need to ensure that 1) the corret
module is isntalled, and 2 xorg is using the correct driver.
257[07:15:38] <jaggz> iwlist says my device is in use..
can't scan.. grr
258[07:15:50] <somiaj> for what it is worth, buster has nvidia
418.74, and libcudaart9.2
259[07:16:03] <jaggz> trying to get WiFi running from command
line :)
261[07:17:38] <jaggz> if I recall correctly, this was a pain,
having to manually edit wpa supplicant stuff.. and it then
conflicted with the x11 WiFi manager
262[07:17:58] <jaggz> it used to be easy iirc, with a few lines
in etc network interfaces
269[07:21:40] <somiaj> jaggz: anyways, keep a reinstall in mind.
If you backup $HOME and maybe /etc (depending on how much system
stuff you configure) one can often do a debian install in about an
hour vs hunting down all these issues you keep running into.
270[07:23:23] <jaggz> somiaj, I think my system is not so
clean..
275[07:26:13] <somiaj> Yea, maybe you have more stuff you have
manually done (besides just nvidia.bin) over the years of using it,
and this makes upgrades a lot harder and can leave artifacts (this
is often why we really suggest only using native debian packages and
learning proper ways to deal with non debian stuff)
276[07:28:09] <jaggz> I also set up a lot of local projects and
use various unorganized methods of handling that.. and it's in
the same drive (partition) as the system stuff
279[07:29:49] <jaggz> since I'm rarely dealing with it,
once I got my ssd set up, and a bunch of stuff moved into the
mounted hdd mirror.. I dunno. it's a lot that's just not
in my mind
283[07:29:56] *** Quits: iflema (~iflema@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
284[07:30:24] <jaggz> and, yeah, it was like 6 or 7 years ago
that I set this system up
285[07:30:46] <somiaj> so yea, that is probably the issue, all
of this stuff you have done has mixed with your debian system, which
really makes upgrades not work, since they are not desigend for this
case.
286[07:30:50] <somiaj> !don't break debian
287[07:30:50] <dpkg> dont break debian is probably
replaced-url
290[07:31:34] <somiaj> you may want to read over that wiki page,
there are a lot of good practices for dealing with non debian stuff.
Basic approach is don't put anything in system locaitonts,
/usr, /usr/bin, /usr/lib, that doens't come from debian. Local
stuff should go in /usr/local, /opt, or $HOME.
291[07:32:10] <somiaj> so maybe a reinstall is best at this
point, start out with a clean system, and start adding your local
stuff in.
292[07:32:35] <jaggz> I'm trying to install the Debian
Nvidia package now and it's hanging in running nvidia-installer
--uninstall ...
308[07:45:29] <jaggz> libglx.so from xserver-xorg-core was from
2017. I reinstalled that package and it's now a different size
and from Mar 5
309[07:50:18] <jaggz> doing a bunch of reinstalls now.. maybe
that'll clean stuff up
310[07:50:26] <somiaj> well libglx.so is from the nvidia.bin you
isntalled
311[07:50:41] <somiaj> this is why it is not suggested to use
the nivida installer, it overwrites debian files.
312[07:50:51] <jaggz> xs xorg core said it's in it I think
313[07:51:13] <jaggz> dpkg -S on its full path showed that
package
314[07:51:13] <dpkg> You Fool! on its full path showed that
package is installed!
315[07:51:46] <somiaj> of course that is where debian thinks it
is from, but when you run things like nvidia.bin or other stuff that
dpkg doesn't know about, things will change and dpkg won't
know that.
316[07:52:11] <jaggz> ohh
317[07:52:12] <somiaj> read that don't break debian link.
You rpobably have various stuff like this all over your system
(which is why vim is having trouble)
318[07:52:28] <somiaj> nvidia.bin dones't tell dpkg it is
overwiting files, it just does it.
319[07:53:12] <jaggz> right! some Nvidia sometime might have
written that.. although I'd have thought that Debian package
would have been freshly installed today, overwriting some 2017 file
320[07:53:46] <jaggz> I can't imagine today's download
if the 430 run put a 2017 file in? mebbe
675[08:46:44] <tjnycum> Unit193: tbh, i'm not very familiar
with either one. i would think this comparison would show me the
changes you've made for debian, but it says there's
nothing to compare 😕
replaced-url
688[08:58:47] <tjnycum> Unit193: ah, ok. i take it the
ubuntu-specific stuff about app indicators won't interfere on
debian? as far as building, i was hoping to ultimately build it on
the openSUSE build service anyway. you wouldn't happen to be
familiar with that or another similar service, would you?
689[08:58:55] *** Quits: magyar (~magyar@replaced-ip) (Quit: Riding the split)
691[09:00:30] <Unit193> tjnycum: libayatana-appindicator3-dev is
for Debian really, so no there's nothing Ubuntu specific at
all. I've used Launchpad's build service, but for Debian I
just use pbuilder and pop it into my own repo, never used
OpenSUSE's service.
692[09:01:21] <jaggz> what the hell. it looks like vim is linked
to an alternative and then to vim.gtk
702[09:14:41] <tjnycum> Unit193: launchpad only supports
ubuntu-specific debs, right? by your own repo, you mean one you host
on a machine of yours following the same general idea as in
replaced-url
730[09:20:57] <tjnycum> Unit193: thanks so much for your help.
fyi, it seems at least one person has pulled your veracrypt git repo
into OBS.
replaced-url
753[09:29:14] <bari> is there any change of frequency of new deb
pkg in repo? I have noticed that there were hundreds upg of packages
every week ~month ago ... but now, there is a few new pkg for upg
only. Let say ~60 every week? I am using testing branch.
779[09:34:43] <at0m> Primer: didn't know there was a
difference
780[09:34:58] <pie3> i have both use cases tjnycum
781[09:35:23] <Unit193> tjnycum: The diff between his and mine
is pretty minimal, biggest change is the upstream repack so you
can't verify the tarball against upstream's signing key.
791[09:40:37] <Primer> So as long as I have all the .deb files
(presuming linux-image-XXX-lowlatency, headers), I'll just dpkg
those and let the scripts do their thing, such as build all the dkms
stuff I have and make the initrd
792[09:41:09] <tjnycum> Unit193: i'll try copying his .dsc
and debian changes, but take the original tarball directly from
veracrypt.fr (updating checksum in .dsc)
805[09:45:31] <Primer> I got pretty much everything working, but
I'm still tuning the touchpad. It seems I get the best results
from synaptics, which is now discouraged
806[09:45:49] <Primer> But I can't get scroll inertia or
proper gestures with libinput
809[09:46:48] <Primer> And I also encrypted the zfs it's
on. I still have about 300g of free space on the drive in case I
decide to try to hackintosh :)
810[09:46:52] <tjnycum> Unit193: thanks for scoping it out and
pointing out a way to do it better
811[09:47:16] <Unit193> Sure, I guess. :)
812[09:47:18] <Primer> Oh, and I got secure boot to actually
boot too, but I forgot my root fs is from dkms :/
813[09:47:51] <at0m> =)
814[09:47:57] <Primer> and I wouldn't have had nvidia
either. The bios supports custom secure boot rules, but...I
don't know if that means I can sign my own modules
829[09:50:34] <Primer> anyhow, does anyone know about synaptics
vs. libinput in testing? I'm reading that synaptics is now
discouraged for X in favor of libinput
830[09:51:24] <Primer> KDE's settings offers this really
nice touchpad tuning UI, but most things are grayed out when using
libinput, and available when using synaptics
831[09:51:51] <Primer> Thing is, I'm experiencing this
issue where libinput-gestures just stops working with synaptics
871[10:22:08] <rany> Primer, if your touchpad is working
don't install synaptics. libinput is usually installed by
default on stretch and requires minimal configuration
887[10:36:58] <petn-randall> jaggz: Note that doing an upgrade
in two steps ("apt upgrade" then "apt
dist-upgrade") poses the risk that you won't have a
running system if you reboot between those steps.
888[10:37:40] <petn-randall> jaggz: I usually do it in one step,
only `apt dist-upgrade`, though I must admit I haven't checked
if that the recommended way in the upgrade guide.
912[10:52:34] <rany> petn-randall, dist-upgrade only remove
packages which you will not need in new release. Use it when you
change your release but beware of packages removed which you might
still want
923[11:03:21] <at0m> i recently learned about aptitude
safe-upgrade, "Installed packages will not be removed unless
they are unused" while normal upgrades do not remove packages.
dist-upgrade however, would, too, iiuc
933[11:11:26] <petn-randall> ayekat: The reason is that
you'll have some packages on $release, and some on $release+1.
And this configuration has never been tested, and also this mix is
not supported by Debian.
936[11:12:07] <petn-randall> ayekat: Yes, ideally all packages
would need to define their dependencies perfectly, but that's
close to impossible with 60,000 packages.
946[11:16:22] <ayekat> I mean, `apt upgrade` is essentially like
a "partial upgrade" (and my main distro, being rolling
release, is pretty clear about not supporting those, for the same
reasons)
969[11:29:32] <at0m> ayekat: apt upgrade doesn't ever
remove packages, unlike apt dist-upgrade (which is a bit a misnomer,
IMO) and aptitude safe-upgrade
972[11:30:13] <at0m> this can cause issues when for example
mariadb server is named "mariadb-server-$version"
973[11:30:41] <at0m> ..and mariadb-common is marked for upgrade
974[11:31:13] <Han> I have this host with an intel cpu, in
/proc/cmdline "l1tf=full mds=full,nosmt", intel-microcode
3.20190514.1~deb9u1, and still I get: "Vulnerable: Clear CPU
buffers attempted, no microcode; SMT disabled" what am I
missing?
985[11:37:28] <tjnycum> Unit193: trying that dpkg-buildpackage
step. it errors out at the end while trying to sign the .dsc because
it doesn't have your private key (obvs). a few questions
stemming from this:
986[11:37:28] <tjnycum> 1) i see under step 11 of the
description section of the dpkg-buildpackage man page that there are
several no-signature-related options. which do you think is most
appropriate? or none? i do have a pgp key i could use to sign it
myself. (i'm guessing i'd need to move you to original
maintainer and make myself maintainer to get it to try to use my
key)
987[11:37:28] <tjnycum> 2) looking at that .dsc, i do want to
change it to only require debhelper 10 instead of 11, assuming that
wouldn't break anything, so that it can be built and run with
only stretch (without backports, because unfortunately OBS
doesn't support it). can i just change this .dsc and rerun
dpkg-buildpackage and have it keep those changes or will it
regenerate the file?
989[11:40:29] <Unit193> I think this is getting past the scope
of #debian a bit. With regards to signing, you wouldn't need to
change anything for that as you can just `debsign` (or use the right
option, or stick DEBSIGN_KEYID= in ~/.devscripts). I don't know
the upload procedure for OBS, sorry. Then, you'd want to change
debian/control and debian/compat to reduce it to 10.
1005[11:54:22] <CrazyBi7> Hello, I have a problem with the
installation of Debian:I installed debian 9 i386 on a old Panel Pc
(a touch screen monitor with a computer inside). When the
installation was completed, the SO don't start: a cursor blinks
for a minutes, then the device will block
1065[12:31:20] <at0m> AnononA: i'm not sure about
vera-crypt, but i've seen VM's and such do that. one way
to find out: try the hidden volume mounted, then add more content to
it.
1171[13:51:33] <nexiu_> Hello. I have install 3g dongle to my pi,
its connect and obtain ip and dns, but i cant ping / open websites.
SSH throught obtained ip (with wifi on) its work.
1176[13:53:24] <nexiu_> Pi was preconfigured as router to get
internet from wifi and share to my pc with ethernet, but now I want
route openVPN through mobile connection.
1177[13:54:21] <RoyK> nexiu_: debian or raspbian?
1178[13:55:17] <diogenes_> yeah with my 3g modem you can't
ping too, so no ssh works.
1186[13:57:47] <ayekat> diogenes_: sure, it may correlate - but
if ICMP echo messages are blocked by the network operator (and thus
pinging fails), other stuff (like ssh) may still work
1187[13:58:10] *** Quits: soee (~soee@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1195[14:01:33] <ayekat> I'm aware of that - I was just
replying to the way they concluded "ping doesn't work,
therefore ssh doesn't work"
1196[14:02:16] *** Quits: AimHere (~David@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1197[14:02:30] <ayekat> as ping may fail for all sorts of reason
that have nothing to do with other types of connections (not
necessarily just netops blocking icmp)
1200[14:03:37] <RoyK> ayekat: I haven't seen ICMP beeing
blocked by ISPs for a decade or so - if they do, they deserve - well
- punishment :þ
1201[14:04:10] <RoyK> 10 years in the electric chair or something
like that
1202[14:04:38] <ayekat> sure... I'm not talking about ISPs,
though
1203[14:06:35] <RoyK> well - still pinging something, wether over
TCP or ICMP is a usual way of checking the network. Don't make
things too hard. Also, if you have a pi and finds it lacks network
connection, you normally have another computer on the same LAN, on
which the ISP can't do anything
1204[14:06:42] <RoyK> so cut the crap, please
1205[14:07:04] <oiaohm> RoyK: there are odd issues with routes
across the internet where icmp goes missing yet TCP goes through.
1206[14:07:24] <RoyK> oiaohm: on a LAN?
1207[14:07:57] <oiaohm> RoyK: managed switch gone wrong I have
seen cause that.
1208[14:08:14] <RoyK> and how many have a manage switch at home?
1209[14:08:21] <RoyK> *managed*
1210[14:08:32] <RoyK> doing L3 switching?
1211[14:08:33] <ayekat> RoyK: they were talking about 3g - but
alright, I'll "cut the crap"
1212[14:09:57] <oiaohm> RoyK: yep L3 managed swtich with some bad
ram was taking out all icmp packets but was doing tcp and udp
perfectly fine.
1214[14:10:47] <oiaohm> RoyK: so its not always the administrator
it sometimes a hardware breakage.
1215[14:11:52] <ayekat> oiaohm: or just the target host silently
dropping ICMP packets - some people apparently like to configure
their machines like that
1221[14:15:10] <oiaohm> RoyK: also I have seen a few ADSL2
routers and other things also screw network up in odd ways like
missing ICMP when they are going dead.
1222[14:16:13] <oiaohm> It would be nice if routers died out
instantly but they don't. Progressive stacking of bad ram
followed by strange behavours.
1226[14:17:40] <oiaohm> RoyK: PS L3 switching is in some of your
routers. So its lot more common for there to be a L3 switch of some
form in someones house than most people think.
1282[15:02:02] <hans_> is non-free packages patched by debian? or
do they require upstream to fix it? (probably the latter given the
absense of source code and the complexity of patching binary blobs,
but idk)
1283[15:02:11] <hans_> eg for security*
1284[15:02:44] <ksk> hans_: the non-free team will patch them.
not the debian (Security) teams
1285[15:03:00] <hans_> the non-free team?
1286[15:03:13] <ksk> and of course will depend on upstream for
new releases.
1287[15:03:21] <ksk> the guys building packages for non-free.
1288[15:03:22] <hans_> yeah but for security issues
1303[15:16:06] <Henry151> a long while ago I set something up on
my Thinkpad p51 (running debian) that would "listen" for
when an HDMI cable was plugged in, and automatically run an xrandr
command to turn it on
1304[15:16:42] <Henry151> then somehow, I failed to back the
relevant file up, and after doing a system reinstall and restoring
all my backed up files, it doesn't do it anymore
1306[15:17:38] <Henry151> I can't recall how I did it, and
though I've searched through my IRC logs, I also can't
find the discussion where people helped me with it. So I'm back
in here to ask again. If anybody can shove me off in the right
direction, since I've already done it once I'm sure
it'll come back to me quickly.
1307[15:18:02] <ikus060> I have a system that is not able to boot
anymore after apt-get upgrade. I suspect the nvidia driver to be the
issue. I tried to uninstall or reinstall but apt-get is just
refusing the re-install the package complaining about missing
dependecies
1308[15:18:33] <Henry151> ikus060: which missing dependencies?
1309[15:19:18] *** Quits: noosanon (~noosanon@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1310[15:19:45] <ikus060> Henry151: trying to install, it complain
about missing nvidia-driver-libs-nonglvnd
1348[15:42:23] <ikus060> ouf, manage to get apt-get to install
nvidia-driver-libs-nonglvnd and nvidia-driver, but something is
still wonrg, when trying to boot the nvidia_* module are not loaded.
according to syslog: Error running install command nvidia_drm,
1349[15:42:34] <ikus060> same for nvidia_modeset, etc.
1350[15:43:06] *** Quits: botayhard_ (~botayhard@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1351[15:43:26] <f8e3> can i backup a ssd to hdd by dd if of; and
still boot the hdd from the same/other pc?
1416[16:33:34] <cybercrypto> cyborg81: there is a dedicated
channel for hexchat. you will probably get help there. Also, check
the documentation website as a first step, so you will be acquainted
with the app before hand.
1420[16:35:04] *** Quits: t0x_Avgr (~t0x-Avgr@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1421[16:35:06] <ikus060> ok, I manage to re-install the nvidia
driver properly, all the module are loaded properly, but I have
issue since it's an Optimus system. When booting the screen is
black.
1424[16:36:00] *** Quits: srukle (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1425[16:36:30] <cybercrypto> ikus060: do you have access to such
system? like ssh for instance? What are the log errors are telling
you (either X or Wayland)
1430[16:42:22] <cybercrypto> ikus060: I know it may seems
trivial, but Debian wiki is one of the most reliable source of
documentation available about GNU/Linux. Please take a look at:
replaced-url
1431[16:42:44] <ikus060> cybercrypto: I've already configure
according to wiki:
replaced-url
1432[16:43:03] <ikus060> But it's not working, and yes, I
have ssh access to the laptop
1457[17:04:16] <rant> a piece of advice to you, is to use
paste.debian.net or termbin.com in the future..
1458[17:04:24] *** Quits: rabbitear_sdf (~rabbitear@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1459[17:04:59] <rant> termbin works easily with netcat.. i.e. cat
/var/log/Xorg.0.log | nc termbin.com 9999
1460[17:05:31] <rant> I for one, under my current work load am
not going to click that link.. that site is terrible, cookies, js,
tls, popups, ads, etc..
1498[17:29:54] <ikus060> I've upgrade the nvidia driver to
418.56 to fix my initial issue. During the process it uninstall some
package like steam:i386. I'm trying to re-install it, but it
contains about libgl1-nvidia-glx:i386 that cannot be installted.Look
like libgl1-nvidia-glx:i386 is not available for 418.56
1513[17:34:08] <ikus060> This backport thing really mess up my
upgrade. M'ay I ask what is the good way to upgrade our system,
when some packages are installed from backport ?
1514[17:34:44] <themill> upgrade from what to what?
1533[17:44:38] <themill> ikus060: there's nothing special
required if you're just upgrading the occasional package based
on new packages in backports. "apt upgrade" will normally
be sufficient; "apt full-upgrade" in situations where you
have held packages.
1604[18:08:27] <somiaj> TooOldMind: you can also configure apt to
not install recommends by default, but in most cases users
shoudln't want to do this, as often recommended packages are
needed (though there is always some opinion on what no vital
packages are needed by most users and not)
1607[18:10:06] <ralpheeee> ok...i think i am confusing
myself....i did a net install and am not 100% sure which pkg pulled
in network manger....(i uninstalled network manger hoping just to
use systemd-network/resolve only to find network manager installed
again)
1608[18:10:25] <ralpheeee> thxs for the patience guys...much
appreciated
1609[18:10:36] <somiaj> most desktop tasks will pull in
network-manager
1613[18:11:31] <somiaj> so if you used the installer to install a
desktop of choice, network manager will be pulled in. YOu'll
have to use smaller meta packages (for desktops) to not have network
manager installed. You can also just disable network manager (and if
you use /etc/network/interfaces, networkmanager will ignore any
interface configured there)
1619[18:13:27] <SIRE1> hello. i'm using debian a long time
and have a question about updates. I'm running apt-get update
and apt-get upgrade all the time but i noticed that my php version
is still 7.0.33 instead of 7.3.5 (latest version)... so i thought
with "upgrade" all packages will be updated to their new
versions... can someone tell me why it isn't and what command I
have to use? Thanks.
1631[18:16:42] <somiaj> SIRE1: debian is a (mostly) frozen
system. That means once the freeze happens and then the release, the
versions in debian will not change. Security fixes will be
backported to the versions in debian. Frozen systems have lots of
advantages on production systems, but they will not run the current
upstream version of any software.
1632[18:16:43] <themill> SIRE1: Debian 9 is never going to get a
newer PHP like that. Doing so would break a pile of code and then
people would be coming after us with pitchforks.
1636[18:20:51] <somiaj> any package in debian that has a security
flaw, the security team will work with upstream to apply the fix to
the version inside of debian. So debian packages will be secure.
They just won't have any new features (or new bugs)
1640[18:21:59] <somiaj> For example it maybe just a few lines of
code that are needed to change to fix some security issue in the
code. Those lines and that issue are the only thing that will change
in the debian package. This ensures that any applicaiton built on
debian's php has a very minimial chance of breaking due to
changes in the package.
1642[18:23:07] <somiaj> So though the debian version seems older
(7.0.33) it has had any known security holes fixed. It just
won't contain any new features (which cause new bugs and can
break peoples php code), that come with newer versions.
1713[18:50:46] <mossroy> somiaj: lspci does not give any output
in my console
1714[18:51:40] <somiaj> that link doesn't actually provide
chipset info. When debugging issues with why a network card
isn't being detected by the linux kernel, a chipset is needed.
1715[18:51:46] <somiaj> and you don't see the card in
'ip a'
1716[18:51:56] <mossroy> I suppose the network is handled by the
SoC itself. See the A64 column in
replaced-url
1736[18:57:29] <mossroy> The ethernet hardware is working on this
device, as I manage to use it with armbian (see my blog post in
French :
replaced-url
1738[18:59:55] <somiaj> That doesn't help figure out why it
isn't working in debian. The first thing you need to do is
figure out exactly what hardware you have (chipset).
1744[19:01:15] <somiaj> Though as you said it should be in the
4.15 kernel, so maybe you need to check the debian
/boot/config-4.19-.. file and see if the support you need is
actually compiled intot he debian kernel.
1745[19:01:17] *** Quits: yyy_xy (~nodebot@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1748[19:02:10] <mossroy> somiaj: thanks, that's a good idea.
I'll run armbian to try to find that. Is there an easy way to
know which driver is used for a network interface?
1788[19:14:57] <_CM_> ruslan: its supposed to turn off after 20
min but in that paste bin file it says zero
1789[19:15:15] <mossroy> After failing to detect the network
hardware, the debian-installer lists a few drivers. st_mac100 is not
listed, but there is stmmac and stmmac-platform. If I manually
select one of them, it still fails
1790[19:15:47] <ruslan> _CM_: man xset or use GUI for your DE
1791[19:16:02] <ruslan> _CM_: I suppose DMPS and Sreen Saver will
do the trick
1792[19:16:05] <_CM_> ruslan: I do have it set up in the gui for
20 min but the screen never turns off
1793[19:16:17] <_CM_> it was working now its stopped
1831[19:33:25] <ruslan> _CM_: debian users supposed to be able to
read manuals. Ubuntu do not have such requirement. $ xset dpms 1800
1800 1800 will set 20 mins (60*20). Read man xset to find out more.
1913[19:59:46] <jhutchins> Ranting about systemd doesn't do
anybody any good. Learn to use it, or use a distro that
doesn't. Stick with old versions and accept obsolesence.
1914[20:00:03] <Primer> Sure, keep your blinders on
1915[20:00:09] <ayekat> jhutchins: to be fair, the "why
reboot" question wasn't answered yet
1916[20:00:20] <Primer> that ^^^
1917[20:00:27] *** Quits: tuxed (~tuxed@replaced-ip) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
1918[20:00:41] <Primer> So exaplain why a reboot is necessary in
this case. Programs can usually just be restarted.
1919[20:00:55] <Primer> Is it because I'm running? Why not
tell me to log out and back in?
1920[20:01:02] <Primer> running X, that is
1921[20:01:21] <GTAXL> Anyone know why both interfaces go down
when I remove the cable for one?
1922[20:01:23] <jhutchins> Primer: It's lower-level than X,
it's not userspace.
1923[20:01:34] <Primer> jhutchins: not true
1924[20:01:42] <ayekat> dbus is for userspace processes
1925[20:01:42] <Primer> but, do keep going
1926[20:02:21] <jhutchins> GTAXL: Probably your default route is
through the unplugged interface.
1927[20:02:36] <ayekat> I think the issue is that there's
some parts of systemd that require dbus themselves, so having to
restart dbus-daemon comes close to systemd itself going
"welp..."
1928[20:02:58] <Primer> yes, I know this is why
1929[20:03:02] <GTAXL> but they are both on LAN
1930[20:03:03] <Primer> I'm being disingenuous
1931[20:03:14] <ayekat> but I think the core part of systemd
should survive a dbus restart even without requiring a reboot
1932[20:03:24] <Primer> It's because you have to restart PID
1
1933[20:03:25] <_CM_> interesting.......... this command worked
the last time I was in debian
1971[20:08:22] <Primer> It wasn't linked to anything, and
nothing you ever did affected it
1972[20:08:36] *** Joins: hele (~hele@replaced-ip)
1973[20:08:57] <GTAXL> jhutchins, they are both on LAN, so this
isn't a default route issue, although that could be an issue
later as I'm looking to replace the onboard ethernet with the
new 10Gbps NIC
1974[20:09:04] <Primer> But now, systemd IS linked to libraries,
and when those libraries get updated, and the programs are using
that but PID 1 is not...yeah...
1975[20:09:45] <ayekat> yeah, but again, having to restart PID 1
is no longer an issue thanks to `daemon-reexec`
1976[20:10:23] <Primer> ayekat: you sure? If this is the case,
why is it telling me to reboot? :)
1977[20:10:39] <ayekat> Primer: a confused packager, I assume :-)
1978[20:11:33] <Primer> I know this info I'm on about
isn't new. In fact, it's the main argument against
systemd. I was under the impression that PID 1 simply could not be
restarted without all its children going away
1980[20:12:07] <ayekat> well, it can :-) the issue you're
facing here is more dbus, which is another kind of beast that I
haven't really understood
1981[20:12:57] <Primer> Well, I suppose old init based systems
would restart init at runtime if it got replaced. I know that PID 1
being linked to system libs is at the root of this reboot issue, but
I forget how
1983[20:13:24] <ayekat> (at least I can `systemctl daemon-reexec`
while watching youtube videos without any issues - dbus updates, on
the other hand...)
1984[20:13:39] <Primer> I don't think that's the same
thing
1988[20:15:01] *** Quits: n4dir (~n4dir@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1989[20:15:34] <Primer> So I need to understand something. I
debootrap'ed the system I'm on using this zfs root guide,
but I picked buster, not stretch. The system is up, I'm in KDE,
but I want to "move" to testing. Is it basically
s/buster/testing/g for all files in /etc/apt?
1999[20:17:12] <Primer> But there is no such thing as
testing-backports. right? I can just remove that line? I imagine
it'll cause errors in apt update if left there and invalid
2000[20:17:25] <annadane> you can just remove that line
2001[20:17:37] <Primer> wonderful, thanks
2002[20:17:49] * Primer makes a zfs snapshot of his root fs
2003[20:17:59] <annadane> yeah no, there never is
"testing-backports"
2004[20:18:11] <Primer> hrmm, I should actually make a new
dataset for this root fs
2005[20:18:18] <annadane> there might be buster-backports, but as
it's not stable yet, it won't be there and there
wouldn't be anything in it regardless
2006[20:18:39] <Primer> there is, as the guide had
"stretch" everywhere, and all I did was s/stretch/buster/g
and it worked
2026[20:32:12] <Primer> also, KDE's touchpad UI (and
presumably any other DE's) has all the fine tuning pieces
grayed out when using libinput, and is not the case when using
synaptics
2027[20:32:21] <rant> Primer: you are referring to the scroll
continuing after you stop moving/lift your finger?
2037[20:34:34] <rant> Primer: its called kinetic scrolling near
as I can tell and libinput didnt implement it because they consider
it a bug and that it should be implemented at a client level within
individual widgets so they are able to detect the source of the
events
2038[20:34:35] <Primer> I'm wondering if I missed out on
something because I used deboostrap and tasksel, and not an actual
"install"
2039[20:34:53] <Primer> rant: yes, this most definitely should be
a userspace thing, IMO
2040[20:35:08] <Primer> And it looks like synaptics is doing it
in the driver
2044[20:36:25] <Primer> and yes, "kinetic" is the word
I was looking for. Thanks for that too
2045[20:36:33] <rant> Primer: synaptics drivers are deprecated
and will likely not be supported in the future so you'd best
look into patches for things and pushing for implementation of this
feature going forward
2049[20:37:56] *** Quits: viruscthulhu (~virus@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2050[20:38:18] <rant> Primer: yes well as is everything in
debian, this is all done by the volunteer work of our users, so..
its likely outdated and needs to be rewritten
2053[20:38:55] <rant> sounds to me like the bigger issue with
driver implemented kinetic scrolling is the bit where it talks about
the events being sent to the cursor position
2056[20:39:32] <rant> where when implemented on a per-widget
basis this wont happen, the events will be known as being simulated
and where their appropriate target is
2057[20:40:04] <Primer> yes, this makes lots of sense. I just
don't want to have to wait for it, so synaptics it is for now
2080[20:44:16] <rant> yes well the series I have had an
absolutely atrocious touchpad but I am fortunate, the kid I traded
for this Thinkpad T440 had retrofitted a 1080p screen, a 3 button
touchpad, and put the largest batteries available in it
2081[20:44:44] <rant> the *40 line of thinkpads all had these
atrocious buttoneless clickpads
2082[20:45:06] <Primer> heh that's exactly what I wanted
2083[20:45:17] *** Quits: diogenes_ (~diogenes_@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2084[20:45:30] <rant> my cousin who I sold me x240 to said he
likes the clickpad.. he liked the incredibly tactile feel of it
clicking
2085[20:45:32] <Primer> I got this msi gs65. One of the main
reasons why I like it is because of the large touchpad
2086[20:45:39] <ruslan> I'm using my keyboard about 4 years,
it feels so foreign when I'm trying to type on someone's
keyboard...
2114[20:50:08] <rant> for things like gaming or art or such, you
need a mouse.. but I find the trackpoint to be far less stress than
a touchpad for when you're on the move
2115[20:50:37] <rant> less movement overall is required and no
need to put your hands in an unnatrual cortorted position
2116[20:51:13] <Primer> This is the main reason I had to switch
laptops. The 14" I got from work in a pinch when my last one
died is just too small
2117[20:51:42] <Primer> And I didn't want to start getting
carpal tunnel. Also, the 14" screen at native 1920 was too
small and futzing with scaling sucked
2119[20:52:01] <Primer> Plus worked owed me a better laptop and
boss lady said "get him any laptop he wants" :)
2120[20:52:02] <rant> yeah I had the x240 before this t440, and
it was only 12 inches.. but it didnt /feel/ small using it.. felt
big in a small package
2121[20:52:08] <Primer> work*
2122[20:52:32] *** Quits: Immanuel (~Manu@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2123[20:52:42] <rant> it also fit nicely into the most secure
padded compartment of my Swiss Digital Circuit backpack.. the T440
is too large and I have to put it in the 2nd most secure position
2124[20:53:09] <Primer> I'm also working exclusively from
home and having the portability to go back and forth anywhere
(garage, living room, back yard, whatever) was too much to give up
2126[20:53:27] *** Joins: Immanuel (~Manu@replaced-ip)
2127[20:53:45] <rant> the smaller compartment goes against your
back, is rigidly formed to resist crushing, where the larger one
opposite it, is against the main compartment so heavy objects inside
are pressing on it with only the coushins to absorb the shock
2140[20:56:17] <rant> yeah I'm a big fan of multihead..
software support is still rather primitive
2141[20:56:47] <rant> I find it way easier to work especially
coding and such when I can have multiple screens
2142[20:56:57] <Primer> The other at home. I'm sure I have a
pick somewhere, but meh, I tore that system down a while back and
made my new system, which currently has 4 displays (it had 5 a few
days ago):
replaced-url
2143[20:57:25] <Primer> but now I only work on a laptop. That
monster system is strictly a DAW.
2157[21:03:04] <rant> karlpinc: I may give that a try.. I got a
thin client here I am currently not using that has a Radeon R2E and
supports two displays.. I could give myself two more heads on this
setup
2174[21:06:39] <rant> you can get these HP T520 Thin Clients
around $50 sometimes on ebay.. they are nice machines.. mine has 4GB
Ram 8GB SSD, the SoC is an AMD G-Series dual core 1.2ghz w/ Radeon
R2E has VGA and 2xDP can run up to two displays
2175[21:06:59] <karlpinc> rant: I may give that a try. Thanks.
2185[21:08:48] <rant> technically has a SATA header but I read
some bad things about it.. reports of the NIC never working again
after using it or such
2186[21:09:02] * rant has been too afraid to try it :P
2187[21:09:07] *** Quits: ruslan (~ruslan@replaced-ip) (Quit: leaving)
2196[21:11:42] <rant> I've used it as a workstation, media
center, and home file/web/streaming server so far.. its handled
every task I've thrown at it
2197[21:11:48] *** Quits: pie3 (~pieee@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2201[21:13:16] <karlpinc> I really like the idea of no fan.
2202[21:13:31] <jelly> rant: 8GB flash is probably not enough for
an OS but an amd cpu and gpu will probably be miles above an arm
board of similar price
2203[21:13:59] <rant> yeah.. it just barely ran GTA-San Andreas
in wine.. was the most intensive thing I tested it with.. was a lil
laggy
2204[21:15:04] <rant> when you figure those cheaper pi boards are
like 25-45 bucks then you need an sd, power, etc.. you can't
beat a dual-core amd64 SoC with virtualization radeon and dual head
support
2205[21:15:31] <rant> the ability to boot PXE, USB, whatever
2210[21:16:58] <rant> It significantly outperformed a Core2Duo
3ghz w/ 4GB ram on all but integer functions in a benchmark I'd
thrown together.. its handling of more modern workloads like crypt
stuff was way better
2237[21:41:04] <dudebro_> those hp thin clients, depending on use
(8gb memory and el cheapo amd), id prolly look for a used nuc with
close to similar price range
2238[21:41:35] <dudebro_> unless there are newer models of those,
with a bit more oomph
2239[21:42:10] <dudebro_> the shape is better for a small
backpack carrying, tho
2240[21:42:15] <rant> its a matter of use case.. a nuc is
typically gonna have fans and be more than $50 for example
2241[21:42:54] <rant> those thin clients are rather ridiculously
priced.. but you can often enough get that one for around $50 which
is what makes it such a good choice for a lot of things
2278[21:52:00] * jordila is wondering about howto to avoid such
situations in the future ? Maybe a cronned script which makes sure
that the whole LAMP stack services are up an running (and if not,
restart them) ?
2280[21:52:38] <rant> dudebro_: I dont see those Celeron J3455
running any less than about $150 used here.. and only support one
display and have a fan.. I googled the next gen HP T620 which has a
comparable AMD GX-415GA as opposed to the GZ-212JC and they too can
be found around $50.. and they are comparable in performance to the
J3455
2281[21:53:18] * jordila ah ? à la vivek...
replaced-url
2282[21:53:26] <rant> though it does look like they added a fan
in the T620
2284[21:53:39] <tds> that's exactly what systemd should be
doing for you
2285[21:53:54] <tds> though you may have to tweak the config to
have it automatically restart on failure
2286[21:54:02] *** Quits: tuxed (~tuxed@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2287[21:55:01] <jhutchins> jordila: If you figure out why it
crashed you should not need to worry about it. Apache is pretty
reliable for 24x7x365 unattended.
2288[21:55:12] <jhutchins> jordila: I've seen systems that
have literally been up for years.
2289[21:56:11] <jhutchins> (Not that that's a good idea.)
2290[21:56:13] <jordila> jhuthchins that one, e.g. ... has been
running for year without hiccups, since Debian Wheezy times ?
2291[21:56:42] <jhutchins> jordila: Yeah, so figure out what
broke it and you should be good for another year.
2295[21:57:39] <karlpinc> jordila: Had you updated any packages?
On occasion switching out libaries "under the covers" can
make bad things happen.
2296[21:57:41] <dgp> I find writing scripts to restart things
much better than actually fixing the issue that caused something to
stop working
2297[21:57:42] <jordila> jhutchins logs don't seem to be
willing to give any clue (for now)... how to figure out what got
broken ?
2298[21:58:13] <somiaj> dgp: though use systemd as tds mentioned,
systemd will do this by default for services it starts.
2299[21:58:50] <jhutchins> jordila: That's the problem when
things crash, they don't bother to write logs. Was the load
high?
2300[21:59:07] <dgp> somiaj: While I get the point of restarting
stuff that stops for some reason I can't help but think
you're going to just cause bigger problems in the long run
2301[21:59:15] <jhutchins> jordila: What kind of content are you
serving?
2303[21:59:32] <dgp> i.e. apache stops because you have no disk
space, so you constantly restart it and the stuff running on apache
leaves a ton of broken state all over the place
2304[21:59:34] *** Quits: grobi (~rtng@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2305[21:59:59] <annadane> (who even runs out of disk space,
i'm intensely paranoid about having enough space)
2306[22:00:01] <somiaj> dgp: Okay, but then why do you need a
script to restart it if you aren't going to do it
automatically?
2307[22:00:37] <dgp> that was sarcasm
2308[22:00:41] <somiaj> annadane: a stray process can eat up disk
space in no time. I had a python webserver that would hit some
ulimits, and then fill up my system with 100s of gigbits of logs in
about an hour.
2309[22:01:09] <annadane> ok fine fair enough
2310[22:01:17] *** Quits: madage (~madage@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2311[22:01:18] <somiaj> which can catch one off guard.
2315[22:02:35] <jhutchins> Break replication on a MySQL server
and it can fill up with binlogs.
2316[22:02:54] <dgp> karlpinc: setting spending limits is
probably a good idea ;)
2317[22:03:16] <somiaj> karlpinc: yea, got it fixed. It was my
universities security probe, they would do this probe to check for
vunlabilities. They didn't find any, but it would make out the
processes and effictivally ddos me. Probably good they did that,
just annoying because the system is mostly closed from the outside
world.
2388[22:51:28] <somiaj> or aptitude search ~i, and it will
include the A flag next to autoinstalled pakages.
2389[22:51:38] <jmcnaught> !aptitude clone
2390[22:51:38] <dpkg> To clone a Debian machine using aptitude
(or install your favourite packages) use aptitude search
--disable-columns -F%p '~i!~M!~v' > package_list; on
the reference machine; xargs aptitude --schedule-only install <
package_list; aptitude install; on the other machine. This preserves
information about "automatically installed" packages that
other methods do not. See also <reinstall>, <things to
backup>, <debian clone>, <apt-clone>.
2391[22:51:45] <somiaj> and jhutchins beat me to the factoid
2392[22:52:38] <NetTerminalGene> microsoft bought debian
2406[22:57:51] <dpkg> Raspbian is a distribution <based on
Debian> made specifically for the <Raspberry Pi>. Raspbian
is not Debian and it is not supported in #debian. Please use
#raspbian on irc.freenode.net for support.
replaced-url
2407[22:57:54] *** Quits: hele (~hele@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2408[22:58:04] *** Quits: yyy_xy (~nodebot@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2409[22:58:08] <somiaj> craderscott: ^^ we don't support
raspbian here (which is what most using the pi have), you should use
their support.
2432[23:09:18] <user> Hi there. I'm looking for some advice.
When running "service --status-all" the program hangs on a
particular service after "irqbalance". Is there a way to
investigate which service is not responsive?
2433[23:09:35] *** Quits: yyy_xy (~nodebot@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2434[23:09:40] *** Quits: mehmedbasic (~jesenko@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2457[23:14:09] <Lady_Aleena> Darnit! Inkscape 1.0 alpha 1
isn't even in sid? How long do you think I will have to wait
for that version of InkScape to be in a stable release?
2460[23:15:39] <somiaj> Lady_Aleena: something like inkscape
(provided its build depends aren't that bad) is something one
could compile from source and install in /usr/local
2461[23:15:40] <jmcnaught> It might be availabel in
buster-backports sometime before bullseye
2462[23:15:46] <Lady_Aleena> *sighs* That version has a fix in it
that would help me use it.
2463[23:16:34] <Lady_Aleena> somiaj, I don't want to get
yelled at for using backports.
2464[23:16:57] <somiaj> Lady_Aleena: nothing wrong with using
backports.
2466[23:17:16] <somiaj> Lady_Aleena: debian doens't always
provide all software one wants, and there are ways to install local
versions without getting in the way of debian's packages.
2467[23:18:06] <Lady_Aleena> somiaj, the hangover I got from my
recent jessie->stretch upgrade because of backported programs and
nvidia has still got me in its grip.
2468[23:18:23] <towo`> inkscape 1.0 alpha is available as
AppImage, so where is the problem?
2469[23:18:51] <Lady_Aleena> towo`, I don't know how to use
that. I can't barely remember how to install a backported
program.
2470[23:19:01] <Lady_Aleena> s/barely//;
2471[23:19:03] <somiaj> Lady_Aleena: the nice thing about my
suggestion is this is completely independent of apt/dpkg (so it
wouldn'd cause such issues)
2472[23:19:32] <somiaj> but yea, maybe complining something from
source isn't your cup of tea. I think an AppImage can be put in
your $HOME isolated from the rest of your system and just ran
2473[23:19:40] *** Quits: mehmedbasic (~jesenko@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2474[23:19:44] <somiaj> (I just prefer compliing over using
AppImages myself)
2475[23:20:25] <rant> those appimages arent terrible.. it was
rather confusing at first to figure out how to open them if you
wanted to change something or extract it
2476[23:20:26] <Lady_Aleena> Well, after buster is released as
stable next month, I may look into something like that.
2477[23:20:46] <rant> but its less annoying than many other
solutions I've seen
2478[23:21:11] <dudebro_> whats the simplest and shortest,
easiest remembering way to check the init system in use?
2479[23:21:30] <somiaj> dudebro_: see which program is pid 1
2480[23:22:00] <somiaj> dudebro_: oh in debian this will be
/sbin/init, so look at the link, ls -l /sbin/init
2481[23:22:03] <rant> dudebro_: or ls -l /sbin/init may be an
indicator
2482[23:23:03] <dudebro_> ps aux |head or something
2483[23:23:09] <somiaj> Lady_Aleena: AppImages are actually
fiarly safe (if you trust the person you get them from, in this case
inkscape developers). Download the image. Run it.
2496[23:25:37] <dpkg> Buster's release is planned for
2019-07-06 (replaced-url
2497[23:25:52] <rant> dudebro_: case $(readlink /sbin/init/) in
"/lib/systemd/systemd") ...;; ... esac
2498[23:25:54] <Lady_Aleena> somiaj, as I said, I will wait until
after Buster is released. I have some other thinking to do before I
dive into InkScape, like if wrestling with InkScape's interface
is worth it. The interface for InkScape is almost as bad as
GIMP's interface.
2499[23:26:17] <somiaj> dudebro_: well this just sounded like an
xy problem if you are wanting a script to test what init system is
running, so I was wonder what your actual goal is, because there
maybe better approaches than scripting this.
2500[23:26:45] <somiaj> Lady_Aleena: okay, I was just poitning
out that since InkScape provides an AppImage, this is really easy
and harmless to your system (as it lives in $HOME) for you to just
download it and test it out.
2501[23:27:08] <Lady_Aleena> somiaj, I appreciate the
information. 8)
2502[23:27:41] <dudebro_> the problem came to my mind couple of
days ago, and just at the moment when discussing here, thought how
would you check that in script. wasnt an xy problem, merely
wandering thoughts of my
2503[23:27:43] <somiaj> Lady_Aleena: in general if debian
doesn't provide you the software you want to use or test, there
are proper ways to do things that won't hurt your system. (:
2506[23:28:27] <somiaj> dudebro_: on non debian systems this
maybe different, hence pid 1 is useful to know about. But on debian
systems (so debian can nicely support multiple init systems) pid 1
is always /sbin/init, which links to the one being used.
2507[23:29:05] <rant> dudebro_: and pid 1 is always
/proc/1/cmdline on any system
2508[23:29:32] <rant> its trivial to test if that is a link, and
what its a link to
2509[23:30:29] <rant> one could also check the kernel commandline
for an init= I suppose
2510[23:30:38] <f8e3> what happens between 2019-03-12: Full
freeze and 2019-07-06: Planned release? can is safely instlal it
already and simply update the lastest chagnes via mirror?
2511[23:31:07] <somiaj> f8e3: bug fixes, and more bug fixes.
2513[23:31:30] <somiaj> f8e3: for the most part you are safe to
install buster, you won't get any offical security support
until the release. It shoudl basically be ready to use, unless you
run into one of the remaining 100 rc bugs.
2524[23:33:27] <somiaj> f8e3: correct, once you have buster in
your sources.list, all the bug fixes (and future point release
fixes) can be pulled in via regular apt update && apt
upgrades
2538[23:37:49] <somiaj> what do you mean not listed, I see it
there. They are just suggesting using the deb.debian.org redirector
which points you to a security mirror.
2539[23:37:53] <somiaj> !deb.debian.org
2540[23:37:53] <dpkg> deb.debian.org is a mirror network that is
backed by international content delivery networks and for most
users, this is the most reliable <mirror> to use in the
<sources.list>. From Debian 9 "Stretch" onwards, apt
queries SRV records in DNS which then send it off to a CDN. Older
apt will get an HTTP redirect from deb.debian.org to the same CDNs.
See
replaced-url
2545[23:39:34] *** Quits: SoulOfMath (~Kernel7BD@replaced-ip) (Quit: Houston, we lost connection!)
2546[23:39:45] <dudebro_> btw, how good is kde with debian
testing buster? ive been using debian with xfce, and because i like
to use kde too, thought is the debian buster with kde as stable (or
compared to lets say opensuse or manjaro)
2569[23:45:04] <rant> I tried XFCE a bit earlier this year and
things like hotplugging my extra displays would not resume their
previous configuration and such
2576[23:45:56] <rant> and MATE can be modernized a bit
2577[23:46:08] <annadane> i basically like xfce for its default
keybindings and applications it comes with
2578[23:46:12] <jhutchins> !debian-next
2579[23:46:12] <annadane> and panels
2580[23:46:13] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for
testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not*
on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is
invite only)." it means you did not read it's on
irc.oftc.net.
2581[23:46:14] <rant> really once you get the hang of the system,
you can start mixing and matching
2582[23:46:16] <dudebro_> i like cinnamon. havent been using it
much lately, but its to my taste
2583[23:46:21] <f8e3> love xfce here too, simple (little hick up
here there with portable devices etc) but the best i could get
2584[23:46:38] <annadane> i use xfce timer + its weather app
every day
2585[23:46:44] <rant> dudebro_: in buster, MATE now has two new
menus that you may like
2586[23:46:47] <annadane> and it's so nice to just have
panels filled with stuff
2587[23:47:00] <jhutchins> dudebro_: That's probably a
better place to ask. Plenty of people use KDE on Debian, but
it's not the most popular (not even second to gnome, which I
think is xfce).
2588[23:47:05] <rant> dudebro_: If you want I could show you them
2589[23:47:21] <f8e3> yes the clipman and screen snapper .... all
nice and work
2590[23:47:57] <dudebro_> ok, gotta check out both kde and mate
with buster one day. now i have about 6 new installations, that are
in temporary state (new computer), so have to fiddle them a bit
first
2591[23:48:11] <f8e3> how do you serve the web if there is no
gui? like comfy with chromim eg (not textbased lynx etc ) ?
2592[23:48:29] <jhutchins> dudebro_: There are probably a lot of
gnome users here since it's the default.
2602[23:52:19] <HelloShitty> That is to format the partition
2603[23:52:33] <HelloShitty> I need an NTFS partition in an USB
stick
2604[23:53:02] <HelloShitty> But I don't see any NTFS
options in fdisk after I create a new GPT volume
2605[23:53:02] <dudebro_> in fdisk wth gpt, its t and windows
something
2606[23:53:04] <cheapie> TIL loadlin from a DOS boot floppy
appears to still be an officially-supported way of starting the
Debian installer...
2607[23:53:06] <EdePopede> while creating you change the type
from 8300
2608[23:53:25] <dudebro_> or microsoft?
2609[23:53:38] <HelloShitty> I'm running fdisk in my Debian
2610[23:53:56] <HelloShitty> and I want to format an USB pen
drive with an NTFS partition
2611[23:54:01] <dudebro_> in gpt the selection is different
2612[23:54:21] <BCMM> doesn't it just call it
"microsoft basic data" or something?
2613[23:54:25] <HelloShitty> Is there any filesystem that matches
NTFS in GPT volumes?
2614[23:54:25] <BCMM> as opposed to specifically ntfs
2615[23:54:27] <dudebro_> yea
2616[23:54:35] <f8e3> HelloShitty: simple do: fdisk /dev/yourusb,
then gpt, then n (for new parition) and w confirm write; then use
mkfs.ntfs and all fine on your usb i just did that
2631[23:57:19] <BCMM> HelloShitty: see the third paragraph on
replaced-url
2632[23:57:32] <BCMM> "According to Microsoft, the basic
data partition is the equivalent to master boot record (MBR)
partition types 0x06 (FAT16B), 0x07 (NTFS or exFAT), and 0x0B
(FAT32)"
2633[23:57:39] <EdePopede> and in gdisk 0700 Microsoft basic data
2634[23:58:01] <HelloShitty> I selected 11
2635[23:58:14] <HelloShitty> That was the optin for Microsoft
Basic Data