Realtime Nick Name Ticker of #debian at freenode (ICQ IRC service)

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24[00:19:03] <roylaprattep> anyone did the jessie to stretch upgrade and dist-upgrade? no issues?
25[00:19:31] <blackflow> two years ago, yeah it worked fine
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29[00:22:07] <somiaj> roylaprattep: make sure to read the release notes for known issues and best practices
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32[00:22:57] <roylaprattep> somiaj: can you give me the link to that known issues please
33[00:23:04] <roylaprattep> to them*
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35[00:23:32] <somiaj> replaced-url
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37[00:25:47] <roylaprattep> why dist-upgrade from jessie to stretch doesnt replace the network interface naming?
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39[00:26:27] <somiaj> because of the old udev rule in /etc/udev/rules.d/70-something-about-persistant-interfaces
40[00:26:35] <somiaj> if you remove that rule, you'll get the new name
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43[00:27:27] <roylaprattep> ok. if i fresh install, it will be removed by default?
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45[00:27:38] <dvs> roylaprattep, it would have never existed
46[00:27:45] <roylaprattep> why they didnt removed it so we have every features of stretch...?
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49[00:29:15] <dvs> it's the least disruptive?
50[00:29:23] <roylaprattep> somiaj: why we need to remove this by hand?
51[00:29:31] <roylaprattep> dvs: ok
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53[00:30:11] <somiaj> roylaprattep: because changing interface names can be problemenatic (espically on remote systems), so the upgrade will not do this by default
54[00:30:14] <roylaprattep> sure, but its weird, we upgrade to stretch, but they keep jessie old config.
55[00:30:18] <somiaj> to ensure that after your upgrade/reboot, the system's network comes up
56[00:30:29] <roylaprattep> somiaj: ok
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58[00:30:53] <somiaj> so it is actually a good thing. Note I belive support for this is finally taken away in buster (though I forget the details here)
59[00:31:18] <roylaprattep> ok.
60[00:31:21] <somiaj> this gives you a choice as the admin, to keep the old names, or to switch to the new names (which may mean reconfiguring your network)
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65[00:31:49] <roylaprattep> ok, i will reconfigure it, its my home network, no big deal.
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67[00:32:27] <dvs> but how will people know what the new network name is without removing the persistent file and rebooting?
68[00:33:21] <somiaj> I am kinda dispaointed they took away support for the udev rules in systemd, but systemd moves much quicker than most things I'm use to
69[00:33:47] <somiaj> If someone wants to keep the old names, one should, just systemd.link files are now prefered over udev rules
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74[00:36:33] <roylaprattep> that name convention is widely use since a long time on some other distro
75[00:36:39] <roylaprattep> debian is very late to this.
76[00:37:00] <somiaj> depends, debian adopoted systemd fairly quickly to some
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78[00:37:08] <roylaprattep> ok
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80[00:37:32] <somiaj> it is just more debian was a bit slow at adopoting systemd. fedora/redhat based systems developed it so they saw it first
81[00:37:44] <somiaj> ubuntu I still think uses upstart and not systemd
82[00:38:07] <jmcnaught> they gave up on upstart and went with systemd as well
83[00:38:21] <somiaj> ahh, I don't keep up with ubuntu, so only hear news second hand.
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129[01:04:48] <somebody> Hello. I'm having trouble with Unicode support in Ark on Stretch.
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131[01:05:54] <somebody> Trying to compress files with Cyrillic characters into an archive, it shouts back at me about being unable to translate the names to UTF-8.
132[01:06:09] <somebody> And some previously created archives have "??????" for names.
133[01:06:33] <somebody> (I can't believe we're still dealing with this in 2019.)
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200[01:48:30] <windchime> exit
201[01:48:37] <windchime> quit
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203[01:49:15] <windchime> leave
204[01:49:18] <jmcnaught> windchime: /quit
205[01:49:32] <windchime> tku
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212[01:52:48] <jordila> say i'm running (e.g.) Pidgin... does '$ killall pidgin 'have any side effect which might lead to not be recommended as a 'shutting down Pidgin' ?
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215[01:55:32] <jmcnaught> jordila: that would send pidgin a SIGTERM which gives pidgin a chance to clean up after itself and stop cleanly. If you used "killall -9…" that sends SIGKILL which does *not* give a chance to stop cleanly
216[01:56:32] <jordila> ah..nice to know jmcnaught
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266[02:36:39] <maxrazer> I'm running Debian 10. I noticed Hexchat no longer freezes during hostname lookup. I just did a new apt upgrade a day ago, so maybe some library was fixed or something?
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270[02:38:05] <somiaj> could be, you can check the bugreports/changlogs of the packages/libaries affected.
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275[02:44:35] <Primer> Hexchat likely never froze during hostname lookup. What was likely happening is the IRC server doing an ident lookup
276[02:45:11] <Primer> which had to time out before proceeding with the connection. Honestly, all IRC servers should disable that. Some do. Most don't.
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279[02:46:26] <donofrio> ok so what am I doing wrong ;( replaced-url
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281[02:47:02] <Primer> seems pretty obvious
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284[02:48:08] <maxrazer> Primer, The interface was totally non-responsive for like 20 seconds when it was doing "looking up your hostname" (I think).
285[02:48:29] <Primer> that's reverse DNS
286[02:48:33] <donofrio> I'm stick with minimal install and no wget ;(
287[02:48:41] <donofrio> at least I have ssh
288[02:48:49] <Primer> that's the server that's doing that
289[02:49:20] <jmcnaught> donofrio: look what it says to use for APT sources: replaced-url
290[02:49:22] <Primer> Again, it's about understanding what's actually going on
291[02:49:45] <Primer> hexchat connects out, the server responds with "looking up your hostname"
292[02:49:56] <Primer> It's the _server_ that's doing the dns lookup, not hexchat
293[02:50:13] <Primer> it's doing a reverse lookup on your IP, for whatever reason
294[02:50:39] <Primer> No every IP has a reverse. Not every IP has an actual DNS SERVER servicing the PTR zone
295[02:50:45] <Primer> Not*, that is
296[02:51:03] <Primer> So, when that happens, it has to time out before it'll let you in
297[02:51:25] <donofrio> jmcnaught, replaced-url
298[02:51:34] <donofrio> oh on min
299[02:52:12] <Primer> Many IRC servers also do ident lookups, which also take time. Nothing uses ident any more, and all IRC servers should simply disable ident.
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303[02:57:09] <LtL> that tilde in front of your reverse dns means the client isn't using identd, but servers still look for it.
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306[02:58:06] <LtL> strange but true, been like that for a long time
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308[02:58:59] <donofrio> jmcnaught, replaced-url
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310[03:01:37] <donofrio> I can get it to update
311[03:01:40] <donofrio> ;((((
312[03:02:04] <LtL> donofrio: why use that mirror? try, deb replaced-url
313[03:02:20] <donofrio> it's ppc64
314[03:02:32] <jmcnaught> donofrio: Please read the page replaced-url
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318[03:03:28] <jmcnaught> donofrio: now that I've taken a closer look it seems that debian-ports only has unstable and 'unreleased' (unique to ports) but does not have testing/buster or stable/stretch
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320[03:04:56] <donofrio> replaced-url
321[03:05:13] <donofrio> oh ok, so what do I need....
322[03:06:37] <Epakai> does the gtk3 app hamburger menu have a default keyboard shortcut?
323[03:06:57] <jmcnaught> donofrio: The archive includes binary-all packages mirrored regularly from Debian. To use it, add the following lines to your /etc/apt/sources.list: deb replaced-url
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325[03:07:59] <jmcnaught> (don't include the quotation mark at the end of the second line, those should be the only two lines in your /etc/apt/sources.list)
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327[03:09:18] <jmcnaught> Epakai: try F10
328[03:09:25] <donofrio> jmcnaught, replaced-url
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330[03:10:34] <jmcnaught> donofrio: again see the "Packages authentication" section of replaced-url
331[03:10:47] <donofrio> I've got the .key from the archive_2019.key forgot how to import it...
332[03:11:32] <donofrio> nevermind I'm reading
333[03:11:37] <donofrio> I've read this before
334[03:11:44] <Epakai> jmcnaught: excellent, thanks
335[03:11:51] <donofrio> just well...ok doing apt-key add attempt
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337[03:12:31] <donofrio> man I get all the fun "gnupg, gnupg2 and gnupg1 do not seem to be installed, but one of them is required for this operation"
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340[03:12:37] <donofrio> help anyone
341[03:13:32] <jmcnaught> donofrio: if you have a copy of archive_2019.key on the computer copy it to /etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d/ directory
342[03:14:15] <LtL> donofrio: apt install gnupg
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348[03:25:13] <donofrio> ok I'll mv the file
349[03:25:42] <jmcnaught> donofrio: the filename might need to end with .gpg like the other keys in that directory
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354[03:27:49] <donofrio> ;( "Package 'gnupg' has no installation candidate"
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356[03:28:08] <donofrio> renamed the file to archive_2019.key.gpg
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358[03:28:45] <LtL> donofrio: it exists on stable.
359[03:28:59] <LtL> amd64
360[03:29:52] <LtL> try gnupg2 donofrio
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364[03:31:42] <donofrio> ;( replaced-url
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366[03:32:24] <donofrio> LtL, it's not that "it exists on x64" moreover my client doesn't have the updated list of what is where I believe....apt update had not even successfully complteded yet
367[03:32:36] <jmcnaught> hmmm… I'm not sure if the key format that archive_2019.key uses will work in /etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d/ you might need gnupg to convert it
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370[03:33:24] <LtL> jmcnaught: i'm sure he does, donofrio i'm sure it isn't.
371[03:33:36] <donofrio> ok how do I scp it from where to where....
372[03:33:53] <donofrio> it exists online just not downloaded and dpkg'ed anything yet
373[03:34:02] <donofrio> and not dpkg'ed I meant
374[03:34:41] <DammitJim> man, why is it that I have a cron job that is not sending an email
375[03:35:35] <friendofafriend> Did it work before?
376[03:36:03] <dvs> DammitJim, maybe because the full path for the mail program wasn't specified, Dr. McCoy?
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378[03:36:55] <DammitJim> replaced-url
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380[03:37:19] <DammitJim> it works if I run it as a user
381[03:37:27] <DammitJim> how do I "see" if it can't find the path?
382[03:37:37] <dvs> DammitJim, yeah, the full path for "mail" isn't specified.
383[03:38:06] <DammitJim> oh wow
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385[03:38:22] <DammitJim> I guess I'll give that a try... but I'd still like to know how I can "debug" it
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389[03:38:47] <dvs> DammitJim, there is no "PATH" in a cron job so full pathnames for programs must be specified
390[03:39:06] <LtL> donofrio: replaced-url
391[03:39:07] <dvs> or a local PATH veriable can be defined.
392[03:39:07] <DammitJim> oh, is that different than when calling a script?
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394[03:39:28] <dvs> a cron script, yes
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627[06:56:28] <fsociety> Hi, i want to report that there's a bug on boot system
628[06:56:35] <fsociety> check this replaced-url
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630[06:57:18] <EdePopede> sure, you can't boot from android games^^
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677[07:48:19] <owl> I'd like to resolve an issue with Debian Buster, which channel do I go to?
678[07:49:02] *** Joins: ich (~ich@replaced-ip)
679[07:49:30] <blackflow> !debian-next
680[07:49:30] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
681[07:50:17] <owl> ok, thanks
682[07:50:20] <owl> :)
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690[07:55:34] <somiaj> with the buster release so close, we should start just helping with buster questions here
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716[08:21:48] <finn0> Like Fedora is there any "git-prompt.sh" file exists in Debian (replaced-url
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722[08:24:52] <finn0> Since __git_ps1 variable is working then must have defined somewhere.
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724[08:24:54] <Primer> finn0: apt install bash-completion
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728[08:26:16] <Primer> I know, it doesn't sound like the solution, but it is
729[08:26:26] <finn0> Primer: Already installed. I'm just where variable is defined.
730[08:26:59] <Primer> oh, a prompt command
731[08:27:04] <Primer> this is not distro-specific
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734[08:27:43] <Primer> I mean, it tells you what to do
735[08:28:17] <Primer> You just put what you need in ~/.bashrc. I have something similar, but it's not "official"
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737[08:29:56] <Primer> Anyhow, apt-file search git-prompt.sh yields no results. Must be a fedora thing.
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739[08:30:45] <finn0> Primer: I've already putted in my ~/.bashrc. But just for curiosity I'm asking.
740[08:31:03] <Primer> locate git-prompt
741[08:31:08] <Primer> /etc/bash_completion.d/git-prompt
742[08:31:18] <Primer> so yeah, seems there is this. And looking inside:
743[08:31:47] <Primer> replaced-url
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745[08:33:15] <Primer> and /usr/lib/git-core/git-sh-prompt has all your __git_ps1 stuff
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748[08:34:00] <finn0> Primer: Thanks. Which command line tool you're using for debian pastebin?
749[08:34:21] <Primer> pastebinit
750[08:37:37] <finn0> okay
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809[09:18:10] <mms_> hi I am running debian as guest in vbox and its internet it not working. network-manager service is up.
810[09:18:15] <mms_> how to troubleshoot issue
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814[09:20:22] <kopper> mms_: Perhaps check that your virtual interface in vbox has been configured properly, if Debian cannot get IP address via DHCP or you have checked that your manual IP configuration is as it should.
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818[09:24:30] <mms_> kopper: how to check ?
819[09:26:08] <mms_> kopper: I am using NAT and there are my two urls replaced-url
820[09:28:09] <mms_> replaced-url
821[09:28:17] <mms_> kopper: that is my setup
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823[09:28:22] <mms_> kopper: any thing else ?
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833[09:37:39] <blackflow> mms_: what's the output of `ip a` ?
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877[10:22:03] <jeddi> is there some tooling that i can use to determine if my debian box is using network/interfaces or systemd network configuration ... without risking breaking networking by
878[10:22:03] <jeddi> changing one and restarting a service? (both are set to dhcp)
879[10:22:31] <jeddi> it's a buster box.
880[10:22:47] <pyfgcr> nmcli probably?
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884[10:23:50] <jeddi> nmcli not found ..oh - networkmanager's not even installed on that box.
885[10:23:57] <jeddi> that's good, I *think*.
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887[10:24:48] <jeddi> hmm, systemctl status | grep network .. has no hits, so it's probably network/interfaces, then. that should be my only three options i think, yeah?
888[10:26:30] <Exagone313> jeddi: /etc/network/interfaces is for networking service
889[10:27:49] <Exagone313> systemctl list-units | grep -i net
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905[10:38:50] <jeddi> yup - i've got networking.service
906[10:38:56] <jeddi> and nothing that looks like networkd
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908[10:39:25] <jeddi> okay .. cool, taa. i did find a migration walkthrough a while ago - i recall there were a few sharp edges moving to systemd / networkd
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1049[12:30:02] <Guest45443> I am trying to dual boot linux along with windows 10. I have installed both of them. But, Windows is not getting reflected in grub.
1050[12:30:08] <Guest45443> please help
1051[12:31:23] <cls-02> boot to linux and sudo update-grub
1052[12:31:29] <cls-02> should get detected
1053[12:31:47] <Guest45443> I have done that many times now.
1054[12:31:53] <Guest45443> let me explain in detail.
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1059[12:34:14] <Guest45443> I had linux installed first. Later I installed Windows 10. Since, Grub menu was not showing automatically, I run Boot Repair and then did sudo update-grub. Then, I deleted the efi partition and recreated it. And after that I deleted the linux distro and reinstalled it.
1060[12:34:21] <Guest45443> Now, I can boot into only linux.
1061[12:34:54] <cls-02> Is windows installed in UEFI or CSM mode?
1062[12:34:56] <Guest45443> although, I didn't delete or format the partition on which Windows was installed, I am not am be boot into windows now.
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1064[12:35:10] <Guest45443> cls-02: how can I check that?
1065[12:35:31] <Guest45443> Windows is not captured in Grub menu.
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1067[12:36:03] <cls-02> is there a Microsoft folder on the EFI system partition?
1068[12:36:37] <Guest45443> how can I check that?
1069[12:36:59] <cls-02> mount the ESP and check it with a file explorer
1070[12:38:00] <Guest45443> ok
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1072[12:39:08] <Guest45443> it is mounted. But, not accessible in file manager
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1078[12:46:43] <cls-02> where's it mounted at?
1079[12:46:51] <cls-02> is it /boot/efi?
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1091[12:48:29] <Guest45443> hello
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1093[12:48:49] <Guest45443> "/dev/sda1"
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1096[12:49:32] <Guest45443> "/dev/sda1 2048 2099199 2097152 1G EFI System
1097[12:49:32] <Guest45443> "
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1102[12:50:26] <cls-02> this is not mounted. It's a device file.
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1104[12:51:09] <cls-02> run mount and paste it
1105[12:52:04] <Guest45443> can you please specify the command?
1106[12:52:09] <cls-02> mount
1107[12:52:21] <cls-02> just this
1108[12:52:23] <Guest45443> the full command line
1109[12:52:45] <cls-02> This is the full command line: 'mount'
1110[12:52:52] <cls-02> paste the output
1111[12:52:52] <jezebel> cls-02 is trying to get you to list out your mounts
1112[12:52:57] <jezebel> not asking you to mount something
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1114[12:54:03] <Guest45443> I got this - mount: /boot/efi: /dev/sda1 already mounted on /boot/efi.
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1116[12:54:45] <cls-02> Thank you. Run 'cd /boot/efi' and then 'ls'
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1118[12:55:47] <Guest45443> sudo: cd: command not found
1119[12:56:10] <cls-02> That's strange.
1120[12:56:37] <Guest45443> bash: cd: /boot/efi: Permission denied
1121[12:56:59] <jezebel> (cd is not a command)
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1123[12:57:15] <cls-02> thanks, jezebel.
1124[12:57:16] <jezebel> you'll need a root shell to look in there probably
1125[12:57:28] <Guest45443> what do I do next?
1126[12:57:29] <cls-02> run 'sudo su' and then do what I said
1127[12:57:51] <Guest45443> could you please specifiy the entire command?
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1129[12:58:27] <cls-02> 'sudo su'. Then, when you get a shell, type 'cd /boot/efi; ls'
1130[12:59:13] <jezebel> (disclaimer: be very careful with the root shell, very powerful, but also very destructive)
1131[12:59:22] <Guest45443> I got this - EFI Temp
1132[12:59:41] <cls-02> do 'cd EFI'
1133[12:59:47] <cls-02> and 'ls'
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1140[13:01:10] <Guest45443> I got this - BOOT Microsoft ubuntu
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1142[13:02:04] <cls-02> Okay. You said that you deleted and recreated the EFI system partition. How exactly did you do that?
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1146[13:02:35] <Guest45443> using linux live usb and gparted.
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1148[13:03:04] <j_wrok> snmpd: error on subcontainer 'ia_addr' insert (-1)
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1153[13:04:00] <cls-02> How did you restore the files after the deletion?
1154[13:04:42] <Guest45443> I reinstalled the linux distro.
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1158[13:04:58] <cls-02> What about windows?
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1160[13:05:14] <Guest45443> No, windows was not reinstalled.
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1162[13:05:26] <cls-02> I'm boggled by the existence of a Microsoft folder in there.
1163[13:05:31] <Guest45443> I didn't delete the windows partition either
1164[13:05:46] <cls-02> I know, but windows needs its files in the ESP.
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1166[13:05:58] <Guest45443> cls-02: is there anything seriously wrong there?
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1169[13:06:31] <cls-02> Yep. You've probably got a bricked windows install. Fixable, but not easily.
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1171[13:07:24] <Guest45443> cls-02: ok. What's next then?
1172[13:08:25] <cls-02> You'll need to restore windows files on the ESP. You'll need a Windows install CD. Were you running windows 1?
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1174[13:08:33] <cls-02> Windows 10*
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1176[13:09:13] <Guest45443> yes.
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1178[13:10:39] <cls-02> I'm gonna be pretty straightforward. Probably the easiest way is to back up your data from the Windows partition, and reinstall Windows.
1179[13:11:06] <Guest45443> cls-02: ok
1180[13:11:18] <Guest45443> if I want both linux and windows?
1181[13:11:19] <cls-02> After the installation, boot into a live Linux USB and reinstall GRUB or rEFInd or whatever boot manager you'd like to.
1182[13:11:37] <Guest45443> ok
1183[13:11:47] <Guest45443> cls-02: thanks a lot
1184[13:11:56] <cls-02> no problem, glad to help.
1185[13:12:02] <Guest45443> thanks you
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1195[13:16:41] <darxmurf> Inkscape is complaining about Python UniConvertor it supposed to be included in linux version isn't it ?
1196[13:17:04] <darxmurf> I tried to download and install it from official website but I got some missing dependencies and all
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1224[13:39:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1531
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1226[13:40:04] <horribleprogram> First squeeze, then stretch, what's next? Debian push?
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1228[13:40:57] <horribleprogram> Working on a stand-up routine for computer sciencists
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1235[13:41:59] <john316_> Hey! I anybody in here?
1236[13:43:05] <john316_> I'm having a pretty serious problem with writing to disk using a frontend.
1237[13:43:14] <horribleprogram> john316_: We talk about being "in chat rooms" like it's a place. Let's all go to the #debian channel, located at _________ (depending on where I'm doing the standup, it'll be a local famous street)
1238[13:43:41] <john316_> Debian is for debian stuff, right?
1239[13:43:53] <avu> john316_: yes, don't let the comedian bother you
1240[13:44:01] <avu> horribleprogram: you might want to try #debian-offtopic
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1242[13:44:18] <john316_> lmfao funny is fun. Especially when you have to deal with probs like these~\
1243[13:44:33] <horribleprogram> avu: tough audience there, but fine
1244[13:45:21] <horribleprogram> john316_: "writing to disk"
1245[13:45:25] <dak> lol
1246[13:45:26] <horribleprogram> john316_: what exactly do you mean by that
1247[13:45:34] <john316_> Caja was trying it's best to handle my file ops but it doesn't want to keep the data when I go elsewhere which is pretty frustrating especially when you find out that 120GB is only 60.
1248[13:45:39] <horribleprogram> john316_: like you can't $ touch file1.txt
1249[13:46:02] <dak> uh
1250[13:46:13] <dak> what type of disk is this? hard drisk? ssd? usb?
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1252[13:46:55] <dak> if its usb esp usb 1/2 it might take a while after it says its like 99% done
1253[13:46:55] <john316_> I dunno, I believe in frontend reliability when it comes to base operations. It's happened with multiple items, hard drives, USB, and SD cards.
1254[13:47:20] <dak> you should try to do it via commandline to take caja out of the eq
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1257[13:47:25] <dak> and also to see some errors if any
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1259[13:47:29] <dak> cp = copy
1260[13:47:31] <dak> mv = move
1261[13:47:35] <dak> cp -R = move a dir
1262[13:47:39] <dak> same with mv
1263[13:47:39] <john316_> Well here's the thing, it says it's done and it used to say it was finishing file operations but now it just dismounts and data is lost.
1264[13:47:54] <dak> are you sure you have enough free space?
1265[13:48:05] <dak> you should just open a terminal and do it
1266[13:48:12] <horribleprogram> john316_: what's the output of df ?
1267[13:48:25] <dak> df -h will show you your freespace
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1269[13:48:40] <john316_> Aww come on, you guys really aren't into frontends of any kind here, are you?
1270[13:48:53] * dak takes a step back
1271[13:48:54] <dak> good luck
1272[13:48:58] <john316_> Sorry...
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1274[13:49:08] <john316_> I know the terminal way, I just like using the mouse.
1275[13:49:20] <tsglove> What did you do john316_ ?
1276[13:49:31] <horribleprogram> john316_: first thing I do when I log into my computer is open a terminal and type ls
1277[13:49:34] <john316_> It seems quicker. I need it to be fast and easy to use but a brute for everything else.
1278[13:49:37] <dak> then you shouldnt even be asking us whats up untill you confirm it in terminal
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1280[13:49:47] <dak> ah the #archlinux side of me
1281[13:49:49] <horribleprogram> john316_: I have no idea why I type ls, I know every directory in my $HOME, but it just fills the terminal with some output I guess
1282[13:49:50] <dak> ttyl
1283[13:50:02] <tsglove> horribleprogram, first thing I do is open a terminal and type tmux! lol
1284[13:50:09] <horribleprogram> tsglove: heh
1285[13:50:10] <dak> what do your logs say?
1286[13:50:16] <dak> journelctl
1287[13:50:16] <horribleprogram> tsglove: I do tmux new-session -s horribleProgram
1288[13:50:28] <dak> you did that right?
1289[13:50:34] <dak> im going to get banned i can feel it
1290[13:50:43] <tsglove> aww man I am still missing out on more advanced tmux goodness. All I use is tmux and later tmux attach =\
1291[13:50:48] <tsglove> I need to get on with the program
1292[13:51:05] <dak> i have mixed feelings on tmux
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1294[13:51:11] <dak> i still like screen
1295[13:51:12] <tsglove> dak, how come?
1296[13:51:18] <dak> im old?
1297[13:51:21] <john316_> Code should be when you have to, ya know?
1298[13:51:28] <dak> 37 = old balls
1299[13:51:28] <tsglove> ahh... yeah... I started with screen, yet moved to tmux quite early in my endeavor. Stayed there ever since.
1300[13:51:38] <dak> i use it some times
1301[13:51:42] <dak> i use it on my laptop
1302[13:51:42] <tsglove> john316_, code... shoud be.... when you have to? wat
1303[13:51:46] <dak> but i dont use it on remote machines
1304[13:51:49] <john316_> Not everybody can code a storm in 2 seconds with right variables and enhanced wizardry.
1305[13:51:52] <tsglove> dak 37? he! funny dude
1306[13:52:04] <dak> john316_: i cant so relax
1307[13:52:08] <tsglove> dak, you DON´T !?!? Jesus... all my servers I install tmux right away
1308[13:52:10] <dak> you just need to read a lil
1309[13:52:21] <john316_> Well, everybody can to a point.
1310[13:52:22] <dak> tsglove: i run things i trust
1311[13:52:25] <dak> remotely
1312[13:52:32] <dak> i have never been rooted, yet
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1314[13:52:52] <tsglove> huh... well... on that account, yeah... I do trust tmux, so... meh
1315[13:52:53] <john316_> But I think using a frontend is easiest. It's SUPPOSED to be easy.
1316[13:53:03] <tsglove> john316_, yet it´s quite clearly not.
1317[13:53:06] <dak> the closest i have ever come to being rooted was a biz partner used the same passwd on all of his stuff, he lost everything job car house... good way to learn about security i guess
1318[13:53:16] <tsglove> dak, yikes.
1319[13:53:25] <dak> here
1320[13:53:42] <dak> replaced-url
1321[13:53:47] <dak> ttyly cig break at work
1322[13:53:52] <dak> look for dak
1323[13:53:53] <john316_> When was the last time we verified some of these open sources to clarify they work correctly?
1324[13:53:53] *** Quits: darxmurf (~darxmurf@replaced-ip) (Quit: Lost terminal)
1325[13:53:54] <tsglove> stop that
1326[13:53:54] <dak> lol
1327[13:54:04] <tsglove> our you won´t get to "old balls"
1328[13:54:09] <john316_> Like a mass check.
1329[13:54:21] <tsglove> john316_, what the hell are you rambling about?
1330[13:54:40] <john316_> Checking to see if an open source project works correctly.
1331[13:54:46] *** Quits: citypw (~citypw@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1332[13:54:54] <john316_> Or if it gives off errors at certain points.
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1335[13:55:04] <tsglove> john316_, what's your point?
1336[13:55:08] <horribleprogram> john316_: what's an error to you?
1337[13:55:28] <john316_> Sounds like a job for that nifty AI that Google built.
1338[13:55:30] <j_wrok> How can you check that any IT project works correctly?
1339[13:55:38] <horribleprogram> john316_: if something compiles to a particular architecture, it's technically not an error
1340[13:55:41] <j_wrok> And, it might come as news to you, but they never do.
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1343[13:55:56] <j_wrok> Maybe some Ada ones, but I even doubt that.
1344[13:55:59] <tsglove> john316_, AI? Google? dude... what?
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1346[13:56:45] <john316_> It's not, I know it's all check and error. But I've seen what it can do, I'm pretty sure it could check if any of them had broken compatibilities.
1347[13:57:17] <horribleprogram> john316_: Google AI in a nutshell: fastestFunc = func1 if time(func1) < time(func2) else func2 ... fastestFunc()
1348[13:57:28] <john316_> Like all that face stuff on TED talks.
1349[13:57:39] <john316_> Yeah, it's it's own language.
1350[13:57:52] <j_wrok> He is not making sense.
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1352[13:57:57] <john316_> Like HTML but harder.
1353[13:58:02] <tsglove> j_wrok, at all. lol
1354[13:58:11] <horribleprogram> I just can't tell if he's trolling or not
1355[13:58:14] <tsglove> john316_, they probably coded it in Notepad.exe
1356[13:58:17] <john316_> I'm not trolling.
1357[13:58:18] <j_wrok> I suspect a markov
1358[13:58:32] <john316_> You know.....
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1360[13:58:58] <john316_> If we really put everything together, we could make something really cool with all of it.
1361[13:59:04] <horribleprogram> tsglove: btw, I never realized it but when you open a shell, type tmux, split the pane, there's 3 zsh/bash/shell you use processes open
1362[13:59:24] <tsglove> horribleprogram, ah yes... original, plus the two new ones
1363[13:59:45] <horribleprogram> tsglove: yup
1364[13:59:47] <tsglove> I just open to my heart's desire.
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1366[14:00:09] <tsglove> I mean, Debian is always like: meh, you do you... I'll keep on consuming no ram.
1367[14:00:16] <tsglove> So I just open and do all over the place.
1368[14:00:26] *** ayekat is now known as ayekitten
1369[14:00:27] <john316_> Anyways, you guys got any NOW fixes for me or am I bound to using the terminal. is it the most effective way to write to disk?
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1372[14:00:49] <horribleprogram> tsglove: I spent like 20 hours customizing the status bar, obviously rebinding jkl; to hjkl
1373[14:01:14] <tsglove> john316_, yes, just go to Settings --> System --> Billing --> User Accounts --> Licenses --> DE Variables then tick the first three checkboxes.
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1375[14:01:35] <tsglove> horribleprogram, tmux?!
1376[14:01:48] <horribleprogram> john316_: what do you mean by "write to disk"
1377[14:01:57] <horribleprogram> john316_: I asked you that previously, you never responded
1378[14:02:08] <john316_> Writing data?
1379[14:02:09] <horribleprogram> like create a new file?
1380[14:02:16] <john316_> Yes.
1381[14:02:24] <tsglove> That's too advanced. Computers can't do that yet.
1382[14:02:31] <horribleprogram> okay you have your terminal open yet?
1383[14:03:08] <john316_> No, I don't really need to write any datas. I was doing it before and noticed it, I thought I should point it out but I don't really know where to get it done.
1384[14:03:58] <humpled> well this is fun
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1386[14:04:21] <john316_> Terminal is savvy but if you've got root windows and everything else going with strange file permissions, it's easy to just think drag n drop and you'll be fine.
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1389[14:04:48] <j_wrok> lol
1390[14:04:50] <horribleprogram> john316_: okay you have multiple partitions, and you're dual booting?
1391[14:04:50] <john316_> Because, otherwise, you are.
1392[14:04:58] <john316_> Yes.
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1395[14:05:06] <horribleprogram> kk you're logged into which OS rn?
1396[14:05:11] <tsglove> horribleprogram, I like how you're descending into insanity.
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1398[14:05:22] <john316_> I've got windwos up
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1400[14:05:47] <john316_> I've got the haxchet into dstore mode on the windows shell command.
1401[14:05:52] <horribleprogram> tsglove: He could be 12 for all we know, where you a pro at 12?
1402[14:05:58] <john316_> YAAS
1403[14:06:04] <horribleprogram> were*
1404[14:06:26] <tsglove> horribleprogram, that's true. Sorry in my side. Yet drives me mad how doesn't seem to want to learn.
1405[14:06:27] <john316_> Come onnn, this is a serious issue.
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1407[14:06:37] <horribleprogram> ^ that's the proof
1408[14:06:40] <horribleprogram> he's trolling.
1409[14:06:43] <john316_> I don't NEED to learn.
1410[14:06:48] <john316_> I want to DO!
1411[14:06:49] <j_wrok> lol
1412[14:07:00] *** Joins: churnd (~churnd@replaced-ip)
1413[14:07:04] <j_wrok> Nothing useful will come out of this.
1414[14:07:08] *** Joins: yurihs (~yurihs@replaced-ip)
1415[14:07:13] <j_wrok> But it is damn funny.
1416[14:07:17] <john316_> TemplOSomg
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1418[14:07:40] <john316_> Seriously..
1419[14:07:59] <john316_> YOU JUST HAVE TO BE INSTALLED ON A TERMINAL TO DO ANYTHING???
1420[14:08:10] <tsglove> Ok I'm off to #debian-offtopic for a while.
1421[14:08:28] <horribleprogram> tsglove: okay I wrote some jokes in there it'd be nice if you ccould write "lol" or "lmfao" to get other ppl to join
1422[14:08:41] <john316_> Why can't you even remotely respect working in a frontend environment?
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1427[14:09:23] <jelly> horribleprogram: keep your lines in here to tech support, please
1428[14:09:38] <horribleprogram> jelly: fine sorry 😐
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1442[14:14:35] <han-solo> hello guys
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1445[14:14:46] <vlt> o/
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1450[14:16:40] <han-solo> vlt: wrong window. Sorry about that :)
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1488[14:31:58] <apathor> hi. i'm using a debian package to replace a daemon that was "manually" installed. is there a way to force apt-get to overwrite the old config files with those contained in the package?
1489[14:32:22] <greycat> Just remove them before installing the package?
1490[14:32:51] *** Joins: napnap1 (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
1491[14:32:58] <greycat> (though to be honest I'm surprised it actually matters)
1492[14:33:30] <apathor> thanks greycat. that's what i'm doing already. thought it maybe could be done in one step
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1500[14:36:37] <wvdakker> apathor: apt-get purge [package], apt-get install [package]
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1503[14:37:09] <greycat> There's no package to purge. He just has files lying around in /etc or somewhere.
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1505[14:37:39] <apathor> yeah exactly. previously the files were just copied files into place by hand
1506[14:37:46] <greycat> I'm still not sure whether he actually TRIED it and dpkg complained and aborted the install because a config file was "in the way", or whether dpkg just silently overwrites it and he didn't bother trying.
1507[14:38:02] <apathor> it just silently kept the old configs
1508[14:38:05] <jelly> apathor: which daemon? Which file paths?
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1510[14:38:08] <jelly> !confnew
1511[14:38:08] <dpkg> [confnew] dpkg --force-confnew will force dpkg to overwrite any changes you have made to conffiles. You can also reinstall them using the following apt-get line: apt-get -o DPkg::Options::="--force-confnew" --reinstall install <packagename>; or using aptitude, aptitude -o DPkg::Options::="--force-confnew" reinstall <packagename>. See also <confmiss>.
1512[14:38:25] <apathor> jelly: thanks!
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1528[14:43:20] <xormor> how do I get rid of pulseaudio and will still be able to listen to YouTube videos? I know alsa is an alternative, but it seems the browsers use pulseaudio when YouTube is the replaced-url
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1530[14:44:01] <colo-work> afaik, that just isn't an option any more. pulseaudio has won. why do you want to get rid of it in the first place?
1531[14:44:14] <greycat> Depends on the browser. Google-chrome-stable (third party, not in Debian) works fine with straight ALSA. Debian's packages of firefox-esr have been reported to work with straight ALSA in the past; not sure about the present and future.
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1533[14:44:49] <greycat> colo-work: some of us have literally never *had* it, ever, so there isn't a "get rid of it" so much as a "do nothing and continue using ALSA" choice here.
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1536[14:45:27] <greycat> It's only installed if you request it, or if you install one of the Desktop Environments.
1537[14:45:43] <greycat> Many of us still just use a traditional window manager.
1538[14:46:10] <colo-work> greycat, I installed it on this (initially squeeze) stretch machine with xfce when firefox started requiring it
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1540[14:46:22] <greycat> Upstream firefox?
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1542[14:46:41] <colo-work> yes, but also debian's firefox-esr package
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1544[14:47:27] <colo-work> (it "requires" it insofar as that the browser won't be able to output audio if you do not have it)
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1548[14:48:21] <greycat> In which version did Debian's firefox-esr stop including ALSA support?
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1551[14:48:58] <petn-randall> The last ESR, 52, I think?
1552[14:49:12] <colo-work> firefox upstream dropped plain ALSA support around that time
1553[14:49:20] <colo-work> they require pulse now
1554[14:49:26] <greycat> firefox-esr (60.2.2esr-1) unstable; urgency=medium
1555[14:49:29] <greycat> * debian/control*, debian/browser.mozconfig.in: Build ALSA support.
1556[14:49:29] <greycat> Closes: #864987, #900062, #908349
1557[14:49:30] <colo-work> (I consider using pulse an upgrade, personally)
1558[14:49:31] <judd> Bug replaced-url
1559[14:49:56] <greycat> That's the last mention of ALSA in the changelog -- *adding* it.
1560[14:50:04] <greycat> No mention of "no longer including ALSA".
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1568[14:55:02] <spacejam> Hello, World!
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1573[14:57:18] <spacejam> Does anybody know about the ParrotSec OS?
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1575[14:57:29] <greycat> !parrot
1576[14:57:30] <dpkg> Parrot OS (replaced-url
1577[14:58:59] <spacejam> I have, there is no activity, and no one to talk about my need and concerns of the ParrotSec Distro! I was hoping i might find an answer here.
1578[14:59:08] <greycat> No.
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1581[14:59:35] <spacejam> Okay, Thank you for your time.
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1603[15:07:40] <blackflow> Huh, the Buster installer surprised me a tiny bit, I thought selecting no specific desktop environment wouldn't install any (except xorg itself, with the desktop task selected). but it installed gnome
1604[15:08:06] <greycat> That's how the installer has always behaved.
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1607[15:08:51] <blackflow> yeah I never tried to install "just desktop" with no env specifically until now.
1608[15:08:53] <greycat> The vanilla installer defaults to GNOME if you allow a Desktop to be installed but don't select one. Specific tuned installer images may have different Desktop defaults.
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1612[15:09:45] <LtL> does debian oidentd work?
1613[15:10:04] <greycat> If it doesn't, file a bug report.
1614[15:10:05] <blackflow> since I want lightdm+i3wm, is it better I reinstall with no desktop at all and then manually build up to it, or should I lazy bum out with apt autoremove --purge 'gnome*' gdm3 ?
1615[15:10:06] <LtL> on freenode to be specific
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1617[15:10:34] <greycat> blackflow: personally I install with no Desktop, and then add xorg + window manager, etc.
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1619[15:10:46] <somiaj> blackflow: your choice, remove gnome is just fine in debian.
1620[15:10:54] <LtL> greycat: hasn't worked on irc servers for years
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1623[15:11:46] <LtL> i was just wondering, its not worth the effort.
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1632[15:14:00] <dooteo> Hi all,
1633[15:14:30] <dooteo> How can I configure Xorg with a 1920x1080 for a computer without display?
1634[15:15:32] <dooteo> I need it to grab x11 (ffmpeg x11grab) and stream it's 'desktop/display'
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1636[15:16:08] <blackflow> somiaj: yeah I see that worked nicely and robust. No errors.
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1677[15:28:08] <ksk> dooteo: mhhm, no Idea about ffmpeg/X, but what are you like "really trying to do"?
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1700[15:38:38] <dooteo> Other way to make similar question, how can I screencast from a server with no display?
1701[15:38:56] <dooteo> I'm using ffmpeg
1702[15:39:14] <greycat> Feels like an X-Y, or you're solving your problem in a very bad way.
1703[15:39:33] <greycat> Maybe you should just be sharing the media files instead of trying to "remotely stream" a playback of them.
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1707[15:41:22] <j_wrok> You could do remote X
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1709[15:41:54] <greycat> I'm skeptical of anything that involves a video player on a different machine than the display hardware.
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1712[15:42:54] <dooteo> greycat: as a project requirement, I can not share media, gotta stream them via RTP to several display (all-in-one) clients, meanwhile audio output is done by server soundcard to output analog amplifier
1713[15:42:56] <j_wrok> Heh. Yeah, this would need quite a bit of bandwidth to work.
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1717[15:44:19] <j_wrok> Actually, I'm not really sure how that would work with remote X.
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1721[15:44:50] <j_wrok> I guess the answer to that is "It depends on how you remote X".
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1724[15:46:02] <dooteo> j_wrok: gotta be server's local X, not remote. Every media 'shown' on server must be captured and streamed via RTP
1725[15:46:16] <dooteo> but, server has no display
1726[15:46:21] <greycat> Give it one?
1727[15:46:25] <greycat> I mean, seriously, what *is* this.
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1729[15:46:41] <jmcnaught> Yeah are you going to spend more money in the form of time solving this problem than the cost of a display?
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1733[15:47:21] <dooteo> Server will be located in a rack, and it wont have display
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1735[15:47:30] <greycat> because...?
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1737[15:47:40] <blackflow> quick googling suggests a possibility to use fbdev and force xorg to ignore no monitor (ignore EDID)
1738[15:48:04] <blackflow> though personally I'd stick a gpu into that thing for fun and profit.
1739[15:48:11] <dooteo> blackflow: mmm... let me try
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1741[15:49:15] <Osmosian> Hello everyone
1742[15:49:24] <blackflow> however the $32k question is how well is that gonna perform. you should really consider stickign a gpu in there.
1743[15:49:36] <j_wrok> You don't need a monitor to have X running, if that's what you mean by "display"
1744[15:49:39] <greycat> I can't even fathom how you expect to be able to magically transport, in real time, multi-megapixel display of a video playback, even to a machine IN THE SAME ROOM, let alone multiple clients god knows how far away....
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1746[15:50:23] <j_wrok> Don't need a GPU to record and stream.
1747[15:51:04] <j_wrok> A decent server should do it easy. (depending on factors such as what it is that needs streaming, resolution, etc.)
1748[15:51:06] <blackflow> dooteo: does this perchance have anything to do with certain facebook requirements on certain live feeds?
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1750[15:51:55] <j_wrok> But yeah, we are not going to solve your problem for you, especially since you seem unwilling to give any specific information.
1751[15:52:02] <dooteo> blackflow: no, it's a project for trains, where travelers will view a movie, or in any time an anouncement about next station
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1753[15:52:29] <j_wrok> so just stream the movie via rtp?
1754[15:52:38] <dooteo> so, there is not enough to stream using VLC, gotta to record 'monitor/display'
1755[15:52:39] <j_wrok> What is this?
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1757[15:53:24] <greycat> because a thin client in a MOVING TRAIN is going to have freaking fiberoptic bandwidth to your server in a different country. Right.
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1759[15:53:57] <dooteo> gotta stream visual announcement as Passenger Information System as well as movies
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1762[15:54:53] <dooteo> greycat: server in on board too
1763[15:55:03] <dooteo> server is onboard too
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1765[15:55:19] <j_wrok> Yeah, that's how it usually works. On airplanes as well.
1766[15:55:33] <dooteo> that's right
1767[15:55:37] <j_wrok> This is a relatively simple task, use rtp or rtsp.
1768[15:55:53] <j_wrok> Have channels on there for the different streams
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1770[15:56:27] <j_wrok> The rest is done on the clients.
1771[15:56:56] <dooteo> so each client cat switch from RTP channel to other channel?
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1773[15:57:03] <dooteo> can
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1788[16:04:18] <j_wrok> so each client can stream the channel it wants
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1791[16:05:51] <dooteo> j_wrok: all clients must show same content at same time (synked)
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1794[16:07:03] <j_wrok> ok then no channels
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1796[16:07:08] <j_wrok> saves some bandwidth as well
1797[16:08:12] <dooteo> RTP using Multicast
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1799[16:09:18] <rampant> hello, I am trying to use the sury packages on my debian installation but I am getting errors similar to the ones listed here: replaced-url
1800[16:09:25] <rampant> does anybody have a solution
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1803[16:09:55] <rampant> i am trying to install PHP7.1
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1807[16:10:58] <rampant> but it keeps failing with the same errors. i am also unable to use wget to get the gpg file (i manually transferred it using ftp to /etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d/
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1810[16:11:30] <jmcnaught> rampant: this looks like a problem you'd need to go to sury.org for support
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1815[16:12:55] <cusco> backports bring php 7.3 .. I would rather use that than some external repo
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1817[16:13:35] <donofrio> what files do I need to copy the mirror on the client so my .deb's would all be local - right now I have no mirror, no gpg/key appiled because no gpg utils installed so.....or do you know command and files needed to scp to client from my workstation upstairs to powerpc g5 tower?
1818[16:14:21] <greycat> cusco: what package name is that? It's not "php-fpm" or "php7.3-fpm" apparently.
1819[16:14:45] <jmcnaught> I don't see php7.3 in stretch-backports
1820[16:14:57] <greycat> yeah, I'm not finding anything either
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1822[16:15:57] <jelly> those are likely coming from
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1825[16:16:08] <jelly> !deb.sury.org
1826[16:16:08] <dpkg> Short instructions for sury's php deb builds can be found at replaced-url
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1830[16:16:49] <rampant> jelly: I already did half of that
1831[16:16:51] <jelly> arguably if you don't trust sury you probably should not run php from either debian or ubuntu...
1832[16:17:05] <rampant> and that's why GPG import is failing because it keeps giving me a 403 error over wget
1833[16:17:24] <jelly> contact him directly, then
1834[16:17:35] <rampant> i had to download it over windows and then used ftp to drop it into the directory
1835[16:17:40] <rampant> yes just sent him an email
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1841[16:19:04] <jelly> rampant: um, there's no 403 error in your gist
1842[16:19:42] <jelly> there's a Err:4 replaced-url
1843[16:19:42] <jelly> Received HTTP code 503 from proxy after CONNECT
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1845[16:19:56] <jelly> which explicitely says your proxy is misbehaving
1846[16:20:08] <jmcnaught> I just noticed that jist is from last year
1847[16:20:26] <jelly> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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1849[16:20:52] <jelly> rampant: can you show _your_ whole output and errors?
1850[16:21:36] <rampant> may I DM?
1851[16:22:10] <rampant> or let me just screenshot it, hold up pelase
1852[16:22:14] <greycat> I... I don't ... I guess I have no idea what a "gist" even is. I thought it was like a paste. But this thing has a *comment* from another user, and we're supposed to be reacting to the comment?
1853[16:22:34] *** Quits: Brigo (~Brigo@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1854[16:22:53] <greycat> or, wait, even the COMMENT is a year old
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1857[16:22:56] <greycat> so it's not even a comment from YOU
1858[16:23:23] <greycat> you're using a COMMENT made by SOMEONE ELSE on a THIRD PERSON's instructional web site which is disguised as a paste-bin-but-not-pastebin.com ?!
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1860[16:23:58] <rampant> replaced-url
1861[16:24:04] <greycat> All in pursuit of PHP 7.1, because PHP. *throws hands in the air*
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1865[16:25:18] <jelly> rampant: it's nicer you use a text-based paste site like paste.debian.net
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1867[16:25:48] <rampant> :( it's a VM
1868[16:26:05] <greycat> So what?
1869[16:26:16] <greycat> You ssh into a VM just like you ssh into a physical server.
1870[16:26:31] <greycat> You paste text from the terminal in which you're running ssh.
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1874[16:27:33] <donofrio> does Kubernetes/docker run on ppc64?
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1877[16:28:43] <rampant> replaced-url
1878[16:29:02] <jelly> donofrio: no reason why it wouldn't run. Finding images created specifically for ppc64el might be a different problem
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1885[16:36:04] <EdePopede> is it safe to claim bash being the default shell on debian? if so, since when? even in the days of hamm?
1886[16:36:33] <greycat> It's the default interactive shell. Not the default /bin/sh for scripts.
1887[16:36:33] <somiaj> EdePopede: depends on what you mean by default, default user yes, default system no (look at dash)
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1890[16:37:17] <EdePopede> dash was the one with everything included? (but yeah, i'll check)
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1892[16:37:47] <somiaj> dash is a minimial shell for scripts (not for interactive use) and has most stuff stripped out of it
1893[16:37:51] <EdePopede> was about most people expecting bash instead of, say, zsh. so i'd take this as a yes.
1894[16:38:04] <EdePopede> ah, the other direction then
1895[16:38:13] <somiaj> it is much faster than bash
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1898[16:38:27] <greycat> EdePopede: what are you really asking?
1899[16:38:38] <EdePopede> what was the fat one then? for emergency and the like, with everything included.
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1902[16:38:53] <greycat> ... busybox?!
1903[16:38:59] <greycat> I still don't know what you're asking.
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1905[16:39:13] <somiaj> bash is really fat, I can't think of a shell that has more features than bash.
1906[16:39:20] <greycat> zsh
1907[16:39:30] <EdePopede> about the shells used as standard and since when. and would have to find my old disks to find out about hamm.
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1909[16:39:41] <greycat> EdePopede: for what *purpose*?
1910[16:39:57] <EdePopede> to get things sorted out?
1911[16:39:58] <ayekitten> EdePopede: also, there is no single "standard" shell, because it depends
1912[16:40:07] <greycat> No, "used as standard" FOR WHAT PURPOSE?
1913[16:40:15] <ayekitten> EdePopede: "sorted out" in what context?
1914[16:40:18] <greycat> The standard end user interactive shell?
1915[16:40:26] <somiaj> bash has been the defacto standard interactive shell in linux for a long time (though can't recall back to hamm), but this has always been configurable.
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1918[16:41:23] <EdePopede> greycat: most probably. bash is for interactive, dash for non-interactive scripts, and right, busybox with everything included. and zsh.
1919[16:41:42] <greycat> Default end user shell has been bash for as long as I've been using Debian. Maybe since Debian began, I dunno.
1920[16:41:46] <Tenkawa> EdePopede: that is completely incorrect
1921[16:42:14] <EdePopede> since i never used anything else than bash knowingly that's something i probably read during the days of my first installs. some HOWTO or whatever, digged through a lot of docs back then
1922[16:42:26] <greycat> I still don't know what you're asking.
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1924[16:42:50] <somiaj> EdePopede: also what is the purpose of this, in many cases the shells are configurable, and some scripts include a she-bang to indicate needing to use a specific shell. If you mean what /bin/sh links to, that is dash.
1925[16:42:56] <EdePopede> Tenkawa: well, that's how i've read what has been written so far
1926[16:43:24] <somiaj> If you are talking about the shell that gets put into /etc/passwd for standard (non system) users, that is different.
1927[16:43:24] <greycat> The answers are all over the place because the questions are all over the place.
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1929[16:43:33] <ayekitten> if you ask confusing questions, you'll get confusing answers
1930[16:43:46] <jelly> EdePopede: are you looking for a recovery shell with lots of builtin commands?
1931[16:43:54] <jelly> !wayttd EdePopede
1932[16:43:54] <dpkg> What Are You Trying To Do, EdePopede?
1933[16:44:08] <EdePopede> "configurable" by whom? i don't think i ever *actively* selected bash, the only time i went that far was when i stripped down the installation to the bones to see what it would install in the end
1934[16:44:15] <greycat> By the system administrator.
1935[16:44:39] <greycat> grep DSHELL /etc/adduser.conf
1936[16:44:44] <somiaj> can't the user change it with chsh as well?
1937[16:45:06] <greycat> Yes, users can select their own shell, but I thought the question was about the sys admin setting up the default shell for new accountgs.
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1941[16:45:57] <greycat> And then the layer after that is "Debian setting up the default default-login-shell entry in adduser.conf on new installs".
1942[16:46:18] <greycat> There are probably layers above that as well. Trends of the Linux community.
1943[16:46:31] <greycat> I still don't know what is the ONE THING being asked for.
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1945[16:46:53] <EdePopede> 1) sometimes people don't even try to DO anything, they want to KNOW what's going on. 2) in the typical home environment (especially with no internet access at all) there isn't any dedicated system administrator. just a person with a CD (or a stack of floppies back then), a standalone PC and maybe some printed documentation.
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1949[16:47:01] <greycat> What is the One Thing you want to know?
1950[16:47:39] <somiaj> I also find 'what is the default' questions very vague, since this can easily be changed. If you want to see a default, just look.
1951[16:48:15] <somiaj> EdePopede: and why does the default on a 20 year old release matter much? It was most likely bash. bash has been one of the standard shells in linux for a long time.
1952[16:48:18] <EdePopede> so i have to put it all into one single term? then maybe: debian's default usage of shells. "default" meaning of course the presets of the distribution.
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1954[16:48:40] <greycat> ... again, context. What are you ASKING about shells?
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1956[16:48:51] <somiaj> as greycat pointed you at adduser.conf, go download the source from archive.debian.org for hamm, and see what it says.
1957[16:49:17] <EdePopede> "could you tell me the time, please?" "why do you care?"
1958[16:49:22] <Tenkawa> greycat: I havent heard a defined question yet
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1960[16:49:45] <greycat> Near as I can tell, he wants an ESSAY about Debian's usage of shell programs, in every context, in every release.
1961[16:49:52] <greycat> Nobody is going to write all that for you.
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1963[16:50:46] <EdePopede> somiaj: oh right. instead of someone knowing the answer to a simple question sharing it in one sentence the "modern" solution is of course to download in image of hundreds of megabytes and send the person asking to a hunt maybe taking a few days.
1964[16:50:58] <dooteo> greycat: j_wrok: done. It is set at /etc/X11/xorg.conf . gotta use 'dummy' driver, set proper modelines and modes
1965[16:51:00] <greycat> YOU HAVE NOT YET ASKED A "SIMPLE" QUESTION
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1967[16:51:17] <dooteo> If you want me I can share xorg.conf file at pastebin
1968[16:52:16] <EdePopede> that's exactly the reason why i left #bash. the user unfriendly attitude of some regulars there. if i'd be sitting in front of you right now, you'd smash me against the wall, right?
1969[16:52:30] <greycat> If you would ask a simple question, you would get a simple answer.
1970[16:52:48] <greycat> I've been trying to dig the simple question out of you for about 10 minutes now. I'm done trying. Have a nice day.
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1972[16:53:11] <somiaj> EdePopede: you have been given lots of answers, but you are asking about 20 years ago, maybe our memeory isn't as good as actually looking it up.
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1976[16:53:54] <somiaj> the answer has been probaby bash for interactive shells, and scripts, I'm not quite sure when dash was added to debian.
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1978[16:54:21] <somiaj> if you want to know about jessie/stretch/buster, bash will be the default interactive shell if a user does nothing and just installs debian.
1979[16:54:25] <greycat> The switch from /bin/sh -> bash to /bin/sh -> dash by default but bash if you override it, was probably around squeeze or so.
1980[16:54:48] <jmcnaught> replaced-url
1981[16:54:48] <greycat> I think Ubuntu actually made the /bin/sh switch before Debian did, but not by a long time.
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1983[16:55:02] <j_wrok> dooteo, I do not think you need Xorg for this
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1985[16:55:07] <somiaj> (though I think you may break things if you point /bin/sh -> /bin/bash now, at least the docs warn against this, since it is not tested)
1986[16:55:10] <j_wrok> just ffmpeg with correct commandline should be fine
1987[16:55:20] <greycat> But I don't know whether that ignored person was asking about /bin/sh or not. I tried multiple times to get clarity.
1988[16:55:23] <EdePopede> somiaj: well, maybe. but then exactly this would be a corresponding answer, that too much time has passed to remember it. i was new at that whole thing back then and on my own, so i couldn't even put things into context like someone working in in IT company maybe even with a fitting degree would have been able to.
1989[16:55:44] <greycat> They don't seem to possess the basic knowledge of what a shell *is* yet.
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1991[16:55:58] <dooteo> j_wrok: AFAIK Xorg is needed for ffmpeg to be able to x11grab
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1993[16:56:13] <Tenkawa> dash - 1997
1994[16:56:30] <Tenkawa> according to wikipedia
1995[16:56:48] <Tenkawa> er 2002
1996[16:57:02] <Tenkawa> added to debian
1997[16:57:27] <Tenkawa> created in 97... added to debian in 2002
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1999[16:58:20] <greycat> the changelog for dash reports that the early versions were called "ash", and were in Debian in 1997
2000[16:58:40] <greycat> ash (0.3-1) unstable; urgency=low
2001[16:58:42] <EdePopede> jmcnaught: that link was the answer. only, the sentence with the terminal sounds somehow contradictory?
2002[16:58:43] <greycat> * Initial Release.
2003[16:58:47] <greycat> -- Herbert Xu <herbert@debian.org> Thu, 19 Jun 1997 19:29:16 +1000
2004[16:59:07] <Tenkawa> ahh
2005[16:59:15] <greycat> * Renamed to dash --- the Debian Almquist Shell.
2006[16:59:17] <greycat> -- Herbert Xu <herbert@debian.org> Fri, 13 Sep 2002 20:35:06 +1000
2007[16:59:29] <jelly> we were experimenting with /bin/sh -> dash way back in etch
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2009[16:59:46] <Tenkawa> that was never reflected in wikipedia
2010[16:59:49] <jelly> (we is a local team, not debian)
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2012[17:00:05] <Tenkawa> intriguing it was netbsd
2013[17:00:08] <jelly> most stuff worked, not many init scripts needed fixing
2014[17:00:22] <j_wrok> what do you need x11grab for dooteo ?
2015[17:00:50] <Tenkawa> I liked the older *BSD stuff
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2077[17:27:25] <afidegnum> hello, i can't seems to find php7.0-geoip installed on my deiban 9 with nginx, via apt-get, what do i need to make it enabled?
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2080[17:28:50] <somiaj> Where did you install this from (it isn't from debian), maybe read the docs on doing a local install of php
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2093[17:34:04] <jelly> afidegnum: the package is actually called php-geoip
2094[17:34:25] <jelly> ,provides php-geoip
2095[17:34:26] <judd> Package php-geoip in stretch/amd64 provides: php7.0-geoip.
2096[17:34:37] <Tenkawa> virtual pkg
2097[17:34:45] <Tenkawa> right?
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2099[17:35:01] <jelly> afidegnum: "apt-cache search php geoip" would have been useful
2100[17:35:27] <jelly> yes
2101[17:35:32] <Tenkawa> yep...
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2103[17:35:59] <Tenkawa> well... time to go get some stuff done.. cheers all
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2106[17:36:23] <jelly> !karma Tenkawa
2107[17:36:23] <dpkg> tenkawa has neutral karma
2108[17:36:34] <jelly> Tenkawa++
2109[17:36:38] <jelly> !karma Tenkawa
2110[17:36:38] <dpkg> tenkawa has neutral karma
2111[17:36:47] <jelly> !Tenkawa++
2112[17:36:51] <jelly> !karma Tenkawa
2113[17:36:51] <dpkg> tenkawa has karma of 1
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2121[17:41:12] <annadane> yeah that's not easily abused
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2138[17:50:37] <afidegnum> jelly: so will php-geoip cover php7 ?
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2144[17:51:24] <jelly> afidegnum: there is no other php in Debian 9 to cover
2145[17:51:37] <afidegnum> ok,
2146[17:52:05] <afidegnum> i just checked php-geoip is even installed
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2153[17:52:59] <afidegnum> jelly: what about the one with pecl? what's its use?
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2164[18:00:50] <jelly> afidegnum: almost every interpreted language has its own package/extension management system, choosing whether to go with distro packages or language's stuff is a matter of your own choice, and each has some benefits and some drawbacks
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2182[18:15:40] <jelly> afidegnum: going with distro packages when available means you're going to get security fixes from the distro. Going with PECL means latest code.
2183[18:16:07] <jelly> (if I remember what pecl is correctly)
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2189[18:17:47] <j_wrok> Depending on how you use it, it may also poo all over your system and confuse the os package manager.
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2222[18:32:22] <jhutchins_wk> Using both the OS & language package managers is likely to end up with a mess.
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2232[18:38:40] <somiaj> it depends a lot on the adminstration of such things, there are ways to do it so it works just fine.
2233[18:39:05] <somiaj> though leaving dpkg/apt from manging such stuff for you, adds more work and thought to the administrator
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2236[18:40:26] <somiaj> Thuogh more and more, languages are using virtual enviorments in their own enviorment_root, making this a lot easier than times past.
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2311[19:26:49] <DammitJim> I'm trying to set up NIC bonding on buster
2312[19:27:00] <DammitJim> but I'm confused as to what is handling my network connections
2313[19:27:09] <DammitJim> or how I need to configure it
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2319[19:31:42] <blackflow> DammitJim: /etc/network/interfaces perchance? that is to say teh ifupdown package, unless you run gnome or something with NetworkManager
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2322[19:34:19] <DammitJim> no, no network manager
2323[19:34:33] <DammitJim> I did it on /etc/network/interfaces
2324[19:34:43] <DammitJim> maybe my expectations are incorrect
2325[19:34:59] <DammitJim> the bond is there, but the underlying interfaces: enps0s6 is showing an IP address
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2327[19:35:07] <DammitJim> I thought the bond0 would have the IP address
2328[19:35:19] <jelly> DammitJim: have you even set up a bond iface on earlier debian?
2329[19:35:34] <DammitJim> I can't say I have... I've done it in Ubuntu
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2331[19:35:54] <jelly> did you "ifdown enps0s6" before removing it from the config?
2332[19:36:07] <jelly> that's useful to keep a clean state
2333[19:36:18] <DammitJim> hhmmmm... I don't think I did
2334[19:36:27] <jelly> otherwise you might want to reboot now, hope you have console access!
2335[19:36:39] <DammitJim> oh, I did this a couple of days ago
2336[19:37:03] <DammitJim> I followed this: replaced-url
2337[19:37:04] <jelly> or put it back, ifdown all the members, ifdown bond0, then remove member config again, ifup bond0
2338[19:38:03] <DammitJim> I don't think I'm using systemd-networkd because that unit is disabled on this system
2339[19:38:14] <jelly> DammitJim: if youi followed that, it said "unconfigure existing interfaces" right after "install stuff"
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2342[19:38:38] <jelly> # ifdown eth0 (Repeat for all interfaces included in the bond)
2343[19:38:50] <DammitJim> jelly, I guess I indirectly ifdown'd the interfaces when I did: /etc/init.d/networking stop
2344[19:38:56] <jelly> ^ if you forgot that you'd have similar symptoms
2345[19:39:01] <kryl> hi there where can I find the file : /etc/logrotate.d/httpd-prerotate please ?
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2347[19:39:03] <DammitJim> oh
2348[19:39:06] <DammitJim> shoot!
2349[19:39:07] <jelly> DammitJim: that is NOT enough
2350[19:39:14] <DammitJim> yeah, I didn't do the first line
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2352[19:39:24] <DammitJim> ok, brb... let's see if I can come back in LOL
2353[19:39:41] <greycat> ,file logrotate.d/httpd-pretorate
2354[19:39:47] <judd> No packages in stretch/amd64 were found with that file.
2355[19:39:49] <jelly> kryl: use apt-file, or ask the judd bot: /msg judd file httpd-prerotate
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2357[19:40:21] * jelly sends praetors for greycat
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2359[19:40:34] <jhutchins_wk> kryl: From past experience, the prerotate is a section of the http logrotate file.
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2361[19:40:40] <jhutchins_wk> httpd
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2363[19:40:49] <jelly> judd file httpd-prerotate
2364[19:40:53] <judd> No packages in stretch/amd64 were found with that file.
2365[19:41:02] <jelly> nope, not even with right speling
2366[19:41:19] <jelly> kryl: which debian release is this? What does dpkg -S /etc/logrotate.d/httpd-prerotate say?
2367[19:42:03] <jelly> if you say "it's not debian it's ..." we're obligated to frown and shake heads
2368[19:42:05] <greycat> I think kryl *thinks* that such a file is *supposed* to exist, but does not exist, and is wondering where to find it, but won't say why kryl *expects* this file to exist, or why the file does not currently exist.
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2376[19:43:49] <greycat> the initial wording was "where can I find the file", not "what is this file" or "why is this file here"
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2380[19:46:00] <jelly> it's unlikely to be part of Debian what with Debian not having a package named "httpd"
2381[19:46:23] <Guest14741> changed wording detected
2382[19:46:38] <jelly> yellow alert!
2383[19:47:04] <greycat> I'm imagining they have some goal in mind, which they will not reveal under ANY circumstances, and in pursuit of this goal, they found some crappy "guide" somewhere on the web, and this guide has an example in it, and in this example they mention this file, and even though the "guide" was written for RHEL or something, they're asking here.
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2491[20:10:19] <jhutchins_wk> Wow, my buster vm certainly boots to usability quickly.
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2502[20:18:03] <kryl> jelly, thank you
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2507[20:18:30] <Roxanne_98> --- Control me during my Live. I've toys ready and I am already wet. I have 2 free VIP Invites left. Be quick and get 1 of them! Believe me, the fun is guaranteed! Enter now ---> replaced-url
2508[20:18:31] <kryl> jelly, apparently there is no such file for stretch... if someone know any equivalent ?
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2525[20:31:31] <jhutchins_wk> kryl: I wouldn't expect a separate file.
2526[20:31:57] <jhutchins_wk> kryl: I would expect prerotate to be part of the main apache logrotate file.
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2529[20:32:51] <greycat> Which by the way is named "/etc/logrotate.d/apache2" because this is Debian, not Red Hat or whatever.
2530[20:32:51] <jmcnaught> It's not a file, it's a directory and if it exists then /etc/logrotate.d/apache2 executes run-parts on it
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2532[20:32:58] <kryl> jhutchins_wk, Yep I can guess that. I'll just rely on the reload... I'm just wondering why nginx continue to use this config in stretch ...
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2534[20:33:19] <greycat> jmcnaught: ahh.
2535[20:33:29] * greycat tries actually *reading* /etc/logrotate.d/apache2
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2549[20:40:27] <kryl> greycat please have a look in the default /etc/logrotate.d/nginx installed with nginx, it doesn't use /etc/logrotate.d/apache2 maybe they missed something. :-)
2550[20:41:04] <greycat> What are you trying to do?
2551[20:41:06] <kryl> My question is : would it be a problem to rotate the logs without problems without this alternative script for nginx.
2552[20:41:21] <greycat> wooledg:~$ less /etc/logrotate.d/nginx
2553[20:41:24] <greycat> if [ -d /etc/logrotate.d/httpd-prerotate ]; then \
2554[20:41:31] <kryl> I didn't find the old one I have to get stretch to read it.
2555[20:41:39] <kryl> sorry to get wheezy...
2556[20:41:51] <kryl> yep so it won't use it.
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2558[20:42:02] <greycat> I won't even try to guess why the authors of these logrotate config files thought that apache2 and nginx could *share* prerotate scripts.
2559[20:42:25] <kryl> forget that I'll install wheezy and read the script. that's better :)
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2562[20:43:14] <kopper> How is wheezy better for anything at this point?
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2564[20:43:38] <greycat> As I said an hour ago, they will not reveal their goal under ANY circumstances.
2565[20:43:40] <kryl> kopper, because I didn't find the script and I know it's coming with this version of debian.
2566[20:43:53] <greycat> WHAT script? WHAT is "coming"?
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2568[20:44:24] <kryl> this one : /etc/logrotate.d/httpd-prerotate
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2570[20:44:29] <greycat> It's not a SCRIPT.
2571[20:44:40] <greycat> It's an OPTIONAL DIRECTORY where you can PUT scripts.
2572[20:44:47] <kryl> yes I got it
2573[20:44:53] <greycat> Do you not understand what [ -d ... ] means in a shell script?
2574[20:45:05] <kryl> ok ... the scripts under the directory.
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2587[20:50:48] <jhutchins_wk> Um... why would you be looking at apache logrotate when you're not running apache?
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2589[20:51:23] <greycat> We mentioned it first, because kryl never bothered to say WHICH web server they were using.
2590[20:51:42] <areyouloco> hi I want to cross compile for armhf on stretch. which crosscompiler should I download and how to set it in CROSS_COMPILE="stuff"
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2592[20:51:47] <jelly> kryl: can you state what's wrong in the first place?
2593[20:51:49] <greycat> Because that would be too close to revealing their goal, or providing enough basic common sense background information to answer a question.
2594[20:51:49] <jelly> !ask
2595[20:51:49] <dpkg> If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
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2600[20:52:25] <kryl> jhutchins_wk, because stretch nginx package install by default a logrotate script including a script and I'm curious to understand what they want to do :-) especially because that won't work actually. The script under this directory are just ignored.
2601[20:52:38] <greycat> FINALLY\
2602[20:52:42] <greycat> AN ACTUAL QUESTION
2603[20:52:58] <greycat> kryl: The script names inside the directory must conform to the restrictions in run-parts(8).
2604[20:53:03] <jelly> areyouloco: "apt-cache search gcc cross armhf" shows a couple candidates
2605[20:53:11] <greycat> In particular, the script names must NOT have periods in them.
2606[20:54:12] <greycat> Any files in the directory that do NOT conform to the run-parts naming rules are assumed to be backups, or default files that are not installed (like *.dpkg-new), and are not used.
2607[20:54:37] <areyouloco> jelly: thx I have found crossbuild-essential-armhf package
2608[20:54:37] <areyouloco> the one you mentioned included
2609[20:54:37] <areyouloco> now how do I set the crosscompiler?
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2614[20:55:15] <jelly> I don't actually know anything about crosscompiling, sorry
2615[20:55:41] <areyouloco> jelly: thx anyway
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2617[20:57:18] <slicktrail> Hello all. I have some questions in regards to how debian patches the kernel. Ive currently ran the 'genorig.py' script to deblob the latest v5.1.15 kernel and now have an 'orig' directory with 'linux_5.1.15.orig.tar.xz' in it. I have unpacked it and can now run 'make menuconfig' to start my configuration. However, Does Debian apply any patches to the kernel when they build the vanilla kernel? Or is
2618[20:57:25] <slicktrail> that the typical process of how they go about building the vanilla kernel?
2619[20:57:41] <greycat> !kernel handbook
2620[20:57:41] <dpkg> The Debian Linux Kernel Handbook replaced-url
2621[20:57:47] <kryl> greycat, interresting
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2627[20:58:33] <telmac> how do I increase jack frames? I'm running jackd 0.124.1
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2634[21:02:26] <Primer> trial and error, process of elimination
2635[21:02:33] <Primer> I do it with a lowlatency kernel
2636[21:02:54] <Primer> Linux daw 4.19.37-041937-lowlatency #201904270929 SMP PREEMPT Sat Apr 27 09:35:11 UTC 2019 x86_64 GNU/Linux
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2638[21:03:14] <Primer> I'm running jackd at 44.1/64/2, for 2.9ms latency, as reported by qjackctl
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2640[21:03:56] <jhutchins_wk> I set up a multi-effects emulator with jack and messed with it. It was like playing through a tape delay. Mildly amusing but unusable.
2641[21:04:00] <Primer> 1.5ms as reported by ardour though...still not sure how that works
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2643[21:04:15] <Primer> you have to tune it
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2647[21:04:46] <Primer> I'm able to play a guitar through my sound card, into the computer, into ardour for processing, and back out, all in less time it takes sound to travel between my speakers and my ears
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2649[21:05:07] <telmac> Primer: I meant just like, what command?
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2651[21:05:25] <telmac> I'm mostly clueless, I'm trying to fix a crash in ardour
2652[21:05:26] <Primer> as sound travels about 1ft per ms. The only good use of the standard system! (I borrowed that from at0m!!)
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2655[21:05:46] <Primer> fixing jackd is not going to fix your ardour problem, IMO, but...we can try
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2660[21:06:44] <Primer> First, are you running ardour from a terminal? If not, you should
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2664[21:07:11] <Primer> Also, if you're not using ardour 5.12...then you need to use ardour 5.12
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2666[21:07:49] <telmac> what do you mean, need?
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2679[21:10:34] <jhutchins_wk> ,v ardour
2680[21:10:35] <judd> Package: ardour on amd64 -- jessie: 1:2.8.16+git20131003+dfsg1-1~deb8u1; stretch: 1:5.5.0~dfsg-1+b1; buster: 1:5.12.0-3; sid: 1:5.12.0-3
2681[21:10:58] <jhutchins_wk> Primer: I figured low-latency was the next thing to try, but I ran out of time/enthusiasm.
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2687[21:12:30] <Primer> jhutchins_wk: I've built a dedicated DAW that I've been futzing with for months now
2688[21:12:56] <Primer> 5 displays, Behringer UMC404HD, drums, guitars, mics.
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2690[21:13:26] <jhutchins_wk> Nice
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2692[21:13:53] <jhutchins_wk> Bah, what's the name of the kernel headers package?
2693[21:14:01] <greycat> linux-headers-$(uname -r)
2694[21:14:16] <jhutchins_wk> Thank you. Getting old beats the alternative.
2695[21:14:51] <greycat> Sucking the life force out of children in a necromantic ritual to halt aging?
2696[21:15:15] *** Joins: qxt (~holyfathe@replaced-ip)
2697[21:15:15] <jhutchins_wk> Yeah, the cops start to get suspicious.
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2705[21:17:13] <jhutchins_wk> Is there a lightweight version of build-essentials that doesn't install the kitchen sink? (Trying to build VBox extensions.)
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2707[21:17:33] <greycat> build-essential is already kinda slim
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2711[21:18:05] <greycat> Depends: libc6-dev | libc-dev, gcc (>= 4:8.3), g++ (>= 4:8.3), make, dpkg-dev (>= 1.17.11)
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2713[21:19:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1535
2714[21:19:33] <jhutchins_wk> Yeah, I think I was probably looking at the recommends.
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2718[21:20:32] <greycat> It has no recommends or suggests, but maybe you're looking at recommends/suggests from dpkg-dev or something
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2720[21:21:08] <jhutchins_wk> Ah, suggests, not recommends.
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2725[21:22:17] <subopt> How do i tell bash/readline to treat underscores as part of the identifier when doing forward-word ?
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2730[21:23:19] <jhutchins_wk> There we go, fullscreen buster.
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2738[21:30:10] <DammitJim> ok, I configured the bonding for bond0 on /etc/network/interfaces
2739[21:30:15] *** Parts: timdau (~paul@replaced-ip) ()
2740[21:30:26] <DammitJim> however, when I rebooted, bond0 didn't automatically get an IP address
2741[21:30:32] <DammitJim> nor did it show up when I did an: ip addr
2742[21:30:40] <DammitJim> I had to: ifup bond0
2743[21:32:33] <jelly> DammitJim: can you show your interface file, "ip a" and "ip r" and "cat /proc/net/bonding/bond0" _before_ the manual ifup
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2745[21:32:45] <jelly> and after, perhaps, as well
2746[21:33:00] <jelly> I meant /etc/network/interfaces
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2748[21:34:07] <DammitJim> working on it
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2751[21:35:20] <DammitJim> replaced-url
2752[21:35:22] <DammitJim> that's after
2753[21:35:30] <DammitJim> let me reboot to do the before capture
2754[21:35:38] <somiaj> DammitJim: do you have an auto bond0 in your interfaces file?
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2759[21:39:35] <DammitJim> replaced-url
2760[21:39:37] <DammitJim> that's before
2761[21:39:58] <DammitJim> somiaj, I do not
2762[21:40:02] <DammitJim> oh, is that it?
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2764[21:40:35] <DammitJim> let me try that, brb
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2767[21:42:34] <somiaj> auto foo is the line needed to bring up foo (basically run ifup foo) at boot
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2769[21:42:47] <DammitJim> ok, that was it!
2770[21:42:50] <DammitJim> oh gosh
2771[21:43:04] <DammitJim> I thought allow-hotplug did the same + more, but that's definitely not the case!
2772[21:43:22] <DammitJim> now, what is responsible for doing this? ifupdown?
2773[21:43:34] <DammitJim> I mean, I don't have network-manager nor connman or anything like that
2774[21:43:46] <greycat> allow-hotplug means the system will continue on without the interface being all the way up
2775[21:43:53] <DammitJim> I do see that there is an avahi-autoipd package
2776[21:44:14] <DammitJim> oh, so I should set that, too because sometimes the interface might not be plugged in...
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2779[21:45:06] <somiaj> auto foo, is short for allow-auto foo, then when 'ifup --allow=auto' is run, every interface that has allow-auto foo (or auto foo) is brought up
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2782[21:45:53] <somiaj> would the bond0 be able to detect if it is plugged in or not? I'm not sure on that.
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2784[21:46:38] <somiaj> and in more detail allow-hotplug should bring interfaces up and down when a plug is added/removed from the interface in addtion if it is plugged in at boot, bring it up.
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2796[21:51:43] <DammitJim> weird... I got 2 addresses for the bond0 interface
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2805[21:58:23] <Primer> jhutchins_wk: the lightweight approach to that is to use debootstrap, make a chroot, install everything there, build what you need, and just pull the necessary .deb files that were made, install those, nuke the chroot
2806[21:58:46] <Primer> I keep meaning to do that, but for some reason, never do
2807[21:59:03] <Primer> Kitchen sinks abound!
2808[21:59:19] * jhutchins_wk wonders who Primer meant to tag.
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2810[21:59:45] <Primer> <jhutchins_wk> Is there a lightweight version of build-essentials that doesn't install the kitchen sink? (Trying to build VBox extensions.)
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2813[22:00:18] <somiaj> jhutchins_wk: they are saying use a chroot to build in so you don't have to install anything on the host.
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2815[22:00:52] <jhutchins_wk> Oh. Nah, no need to be that elaborate for one build.
2816[22:01:04] <Primer> sure..then install said kitchen sink
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2819[22:01:42] <jhutchins_wk> Not a prod machine, so don't mind keeping the build environment around. Limited resources though (VM), so don't wan to install things I won't use.
2820[22:02:25] <somiaj> might just need to install the dev tools you need if you can get buy with less than build-essential
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2822[22:03:42] <greycat> dpkg-dev would be the one to drop, if you aren't going to build .debs
2823[22:04:14] <greycat> or g++ if you aren't building C++ code
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2827[22:04:53] <jhutchins_wk> Ah, that would probably have worked.
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2829[22:05:08] <Primer> I use an lxc in in aws instance as my build environment
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2831[22:05:18] <Primer> it's one of 9 lxcs :)
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2834[22:05:48] <Primer> And that's running on a VM. Works fine. I don't think you get the point of a chroot
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2838[22:06:07] <Primer> The resources you're saving would be nothing but disk space and your own time
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2842[22:06:35] <Primer> lcx is just a fancy chroot
2843[22:06:59] <Primer> and docker is just a step up above that, but still running natively on Linux
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2853[22:09:29] <jhutchins_wk> Primer: Centos had an automated system that built a temporary chroot, built the software in it, and tore it back down. I was not impressed with the complexity. It addressed extreme edge cases.
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2856[22:10:19] <somiaj> debian has that for packages, pbuilder and dbuild
2857[22:10:20] <Primer> jhutchins_wk: I often use the term kitchen sink, so I'm rather sensitive to it. I personally try to avoid installing build tools into machines just for the sake of building a deb
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2859[22:10:42] <Primer> But do so in a pinch. Nothing _wrong_ with it.
2860[22:11:12] <jhutchins_wk> Yes, I and my company both have a policy to never put a build environment on a prod server. Sandbox servers are fine.
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2863[22:12:21] <jhutchins_wk> If I had more than one Buster Vbox, I'd build a deb just for the learning, but for a one-off, I'll just put it on, and maybe figure out how to manually put it in dkms.
2864[22:12:42] <jhutchins_wk> The nvidia driver installer is nice in that it will set up dkms for you.
2865[22:12:44] <Primer> also. why not qemu-kvm?
2866[22:12:55] <Primer> vbox == oracle, oracle == bad
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2869[22:13:12] <jhutchins_wk> Primer: Why not vbox? It works.
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2871[22:13:23] <Primer> heh so does qemu-kvm
2872[22:13:37] <Primer> and it's open source
2873[22:13:43] <Primer> vbox...isn't
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2875[22:14:07] <jhutchins_wk> It's on windows anyway.
2876[22:14:22] <somiaj> jhutchins_wk: are you just trying to install the virtubalbox guest addon module?
2877[22:14:37] <jhutchins_wk> somiaj: I have already installed the guest addon modules.
2878[22:14:50] <somiaj> was just gonna point out there is a dkms package for this
2879[22:14:51] <jhutchins_wk> Job done, full screen buster.
2880[22:16:00] <Primer> ok, didn't realize linux wasn't the host
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2882[22:17:47] <jhutchins_wk> somiaj: I'll bet that would have pulled in the necessary build tools as well.
2883[22:17:56] <jhutchins_wk> Well, one more thing I don't have to learn.
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2885[22:18:02] <somiaj> ,v virtualbox-guest-addons-dkms
2886[22:18:03] <judd> No package named 'virtualbox-guest-addons-dkms' was found in amd64.
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2889[22:18:18] <jhutchins_wk> virtualbox-guest-dkms
2890[22:18:22] <somiaj> Yea, that is it
2891[22:18:30] <somiaj> It won't pull in linux-headers though
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2894[22:19:20] <somiaj> ,v virtualbox-guest-dkms
2895[22:19:22] <judd> Package: virtualbox-guest-dkms on amd64 -- jessie/contrib: 4.3.36-dfsg-1+deb8u1; jessie-security/contrib: 4.3.36-dfsg-1+deb8u1; stretch-backports/contrib: 5.2.24-dfsg-4~bpo9+1; sid/contrib: 6.0.8-dfsg-7
2896[22:19:33] <somiaj> most likely you'd want the stretch-backport version too
2897[22:19:54] <somiaj> oh yea, vbox isn't in stretch, so you would have no choice
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2900[22:22:06] <jhutchins_wk> Not in jessie though, which was the target machine. I've installed it on this stretch.
2901[22:22:31] <jhutchins_wk> For some reason buster isn't allowing me to paste from the windows clipboard.
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2903[22:23:12] <somiaj> even after the guest addons are loaded?
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2905[22:23:23] <jhutchins_wk> Right.
2906[22:23:46] <dak> hrm
2907[22:23:49] <somiaj> there was an additional package needed to do this in qemu-kvm, though I don't know if that affects vbox at all, can't recall its name though.
2908[22:23:55] <dak> are they still working on kfreebsd?
2909[22:24:03] <greycat> not actively
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2911[22:24:11] <dak> :(
2912[22:24:25] <somiaj> its an uoffical port
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2916[22:26:05] <jhutchins_wk> Mouse integration is enabled. Works on stretch.
2917[22:26:08] <dak> hrm no drowz
2918[22:26:20] <somiaj> jhutchins_wk: check the settings, there are settings for a shared clipboard, what is it ocnfigured for this guest?
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2921[22:26:32] <somiaj> jhutchins_wk: Looks like it is under general -> advanced
2922[22:26:58] <jhutchins_wk> Looking for that setting.
2923[22:27:37] <somiaj> Not sure where it would be located, but maybe this image will help. replaced-url
2924[22:27:55] <jhutchins_wk> Now the keyboard's failed.
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2928[22:28:51] <somiaj> I found one formum that suggests you neeed to reboot the guest after you change this setting
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2931[22:29:20] <jhutchins_wk> Done
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2933[22:29:42] <somiaj> and the main thing I'm seeing is you need virtualbox-guest-dkms virtualbox-guest-utils and virtualbox-guest-x11 for the various guest addons, though I'm assuming the method you used to install got them all.
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2935[22:31:25] <jhutchins_wk> I installed off the virtualbox guest iso.
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2938[22:34:03] <jhutchins_wk> Found it, settings, general, advanced. It was off.
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2940[22:34:32] <Guest48953> hi guys
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2942[22:35:08] <jhutchins_wk> I should probably install the debian packages instead of the VBox ones.
2943[22:35:17] <jhutchins_wk> That way I don't need dkms.
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2945[22:35:58] <jhutchins_wk> somiaj: It's named virtualbox-guest-additions-iso in buster.
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2954[22:41:36] <namll> hello, i have a bare bones net install of debian, and i have been doing fine with wirless internet with wpa_cli/wpa_supplicant for all that stuff. but i want to connect via ethernet and I am having troubles getting it to work. I tried adding configs to /etc/network/interfaces from the "man interfaces" example and it says it is UP, but its state is DOWN. so running ip link set enp0 up and dhclient -v enp0 gives me no good results.
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2956[22:44:21] <Brigo> namll, your ethernet connections is called enp0?
2957[22:44:22] <greycat> Does your ethernet interface require any firmware? (dmesg | grep -i firmware)
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2961[22:45:47] <namll> Brigo: enp0s31f6
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2964[22:46:25] <Primer> that's ethernet
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2969[22:47:04] <Primer> I found that when I did my debootstrap install, that firmware-linux* didn't come, and was needed for wifi to work on this laptop
2970[22:47:29] <Primer> tasksel won't cover it either
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2972[22:49:12] <namll> ive added firmware-misc-nonfree and firmware-iwlwifi. greycat: replaced-url
2973[22:49:20] <somiaj> jhutchins_wk: that is different
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2975[22:49:31] <greycat> There are unofficial installer images with non-free firmware. Laptop users will probably want to use those.
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2977[22:49:41] <somiaj> jhutchins_wk: that is what you install on the host, to make the .iso available to guests to install form the .iso vs using the other packages.
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2979[22:50:14] <somiaj> and it seems buster is doing the same thing stretch did, vbox is not offfically part of buster, so you'll have to wait for buster-backports or install the packages from sid
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2981[22:51:31] <greycat> namll: Hmm, I don't see anything that looks like ethernet in there. All I can suggest is that you double-check the syntax you used in /etc/network/interfaces
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2985[22:52:43] <namll> greycat: replaced-url
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2989[22:55:08] <greycat> either have auto enp0s31f6 or allow-hotplug enp0s31f6, not both...
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2991[22:55:41] <namll> greycat: oh ok, I will remove that and try it out. Thank you.
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3027[23:07:30] <namll> what would be a reason my interface state is DOWN? replaced-url
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3036[23:11:21] <jmcnaught> namll: is there a link light?
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3042[23:12:13] <namll> where the ethernet connection is?
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3045[23:13:53] <namll> jmcnaught: yeah there is nothing, ill have to investigate that.
3046[23:14:18] <jmcnaught> namll: did you try a different cable or port on the switch?
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3053[23:14:48] <namll> i just switched port on modem, didnt try new cable.
3054[23:14:55] <namll> are there special drivers for those ports?
3055[23:15:41] <jmcnaught> I don't know what ports you mean but NO-CARRIER tells me no cable is plugged in. If the cable is plugged in, it could be bad.
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3059[23:16:15] <dvs> I thought NO DIAL TONE means there is no cable plugged in?
3060[23:16:31] <namll> jmcnaught: AH, new cable. now lights
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3065[23:16:59] <namll> jmcnaught: thank you for insight.
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