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• 42[00:22:02] <maxtim> Hello, I'm trying to connect to a vpn using StrongSwan, but I'm a little confused by the terminology in the man file and the example files on strongswan.org
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• 45[00:26:44] <p3rror> Hello
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• 77[00:52:41] <annadane> i consider myself fortunate jessie/stretch worked with my hardware the first try
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• 79[00:53:02] <annadane> sucks when you get hardware that won't even boot because you need a newer kernel or whatever
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• 121[01:29:37] <melpy> (⌣_⌣”)
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• 131[01:36:07] <annadane> but oh well i guess that's why there's ubuntu
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• 136[01:38:18] <zerocool> hi yall, anyone know how to set gnutls cipher suites?
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• 145[01:43:32] <milkt> zerocool: can you provide more detail, where/what are you going to use gnutls with?
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• 151[01:48:45] <zerocool> milkt: openldap on debian uses gnutls over openssl because of licensing or something like that, i need to connect an application to openldap that only supports ssl
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• 153[01:49:18] <zerocool> when i check that port i only get tls, which i like but im trying to enable ssl
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• 177[02:03:40] <milkt> so you want to use ssl instead of tls?
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• 179[02:08:45] <milkt> i think it is something to do with openldap configuration, rather than gnutls or openssl package itself
• 180[02:09:56] <milkt> zerocool: found some document seems to be related to cipher suite replaced-url
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• 183[02:13:17] <zerocool> well in the ldap cn=config it doesn't have any olcTLSCipherSuite listed, i asked the folks over at #openldap an they said foor debian it uses gnutls for now
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• 185[02:13:32] <zerocool> for* debian*
• 186[02:14:05] <zerocool> when i check using openssl s_client it shows only tls 1.2
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• 215[02:38:32] <melpy> !nyan
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• 224[02:44:11] <melpy> .bots
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• 243[03:07:31] <milkt> is there any neat way to rename file to alphanumeric only without using stupid long command with regex
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• 247[03:10:46] <milkt> nevermind, some files don't even contain any alphanumeric character, i should find other way
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• 302[03:50:40] <GenTooMan> I was attempting to migrate from stretch to testing and the install got interrupted so my libc and bunches of my libraries are kind of messed up. Any suggestions on how to fix this? Do I have to force reinstall the older libs or what?
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• 304[03:52:17] <themill> GenTooMan: what does "apt-get -f install" want to do?
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• 308[03:55:09] <GenTooMan> at the very end of all of it it says this:"E: Error, pkgProblemResolver::Resolve generated breaks, this may be caused by held packages.
• 309[03:55:10] <GenTooMan> E: Unable to correct dependencies
• 310[03:55:36] <GenTooMan> so I have lots of broken packages
• 311[03:55:53] <themill> and I assume neither apt-get upgrade not apt-get dist-upgrade want to do anything either?
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• 314[03:57:28] <GenTooMan> apt-get upgrade yields:E: Unmet dependencies. Try 'apt --fix-broken install' with no packages (or specify a solution).
• 315[03:58:03] <themill> noo
• 316[03:58:13] <themill> Can you pastebin all of "apt-get -f install"?
• 317[03:58:25] <themill> and "apt-cache policy"
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• 320[04:01:30] <GenTooMan> sure ... a minute or three
• 321[04:01:55] <Tenkawa> btw I
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• 323[04:02:08] <Tenkawa> i'm here to help too if I can
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• 325[04:02:40] <Tenkawa> I should be online for another 30-45 or so
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• 331[04:06:57] <GenTooMan> so apt-cache police replaced-url
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• 333[04:09:00] <themill> you don't seem to have buster in your sources.list at present?
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• 336[04:09:46] <Tenkawa> themill: his packages are mixed
• 337[04:09:57] <Tenkawa> I'm looking at versions
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• 339[04:10:01] <GenTooMan> indeed it's all mixed up
• 340[04:10:08] <themill> Tenkawa: it's the middle of a dist-upgrade, of course they are
• 341[04:10:17] <GenTooMan> it got half way through and boom
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• 344[04:10:43] <Tenkawa> no... thats not what quite what I mean
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• 348[04:12:05] <GenTooMan> I suppose I could reinstall debian IE droconian method the issue would be the ethernet as I am using a USB ethernet device and likely it will get killed
• 349[04:12:15] <Tenkawa> it looks like it was missing packages to complete the upgrade even if it hadn't been aborted
• 350[04:12:38] <themill> GenTooMan: Some of these 3rd party repos may well cause problems, but your sources.list doesn't have buster in it.
• 351[04:12:43] <themill> !buster sources.list
• 352[04:12:44] <dpkg> A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Buster" has three lines: "deb replaced-url
• 353[04:12:59] <Tenkawa> themill: right.. thats what I'm saying
• 354[04:13:19] <themill> Tenkawa: you're telling me what I'd already told him earlier? thanks for the help.
• 355[04:13:30] <Tenkawa> sorry.. missed it
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• 357[04:13:36] <themill> GenTooMan: removing stretch from the sources.list entirely is probably needed.
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• 360[04:13:47] <GenTooMan> if that is the worst thing you do you are a lot better than most!
• 361[04:14:46] <GenTooMan> themill erk. That could be interesting. then I have to do an apt-get -f install ?
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• 363[04:14:58] <Tenkawa> GenTooMan: there are still a few options left
• 364[04:15:14] <themill> GenTooMan: fix up the sources.list, show it to us so we can check it if you want, apt-get update, apt-get -f install
• 365[04:15:42] <themill> GenTooMan: apt is often good at figuring these things out. If not, removing a couple of problematic packages to see if it can then figure out the problem is the next step
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• 381[04:23:00] <kwriley87> Hi there, I am using Debian 9 and running into a weird issue.. when I set my network interface IP in /etc/network/interfaces, it appears to be configuring a secondary IP.. not replacing the primary IP of the interface. Anyone have any ideas why?
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• 384[04:24:37] <tds> kwriley87: can you pastebin your config? also, do you know if any other network management daemons (systemd-networkd, network-manager, etc) are running on this system?
• 385[04:24:51] <tds> (a default stretch install should just use plain ifupdown out of the box)
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• 388[04:25:34] <rant> kwriley87: are you talking ipv4 or ipv6?
• 389[04:25:44] <kwriley87> ipv4 -- let me grab my config..
• 390[04:26:01] <GenTooMan> themill update of apt-cache policy replaced-url
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• 395[04:27:55] <themill> GenTooMan: you still don't actually have buster in your sources.list. You need what dpkg said earlier.
• 396[04:30:05] <s8ori> themill: is your nick in reference to the 'mill' architecture/processor ?
• 397[04:30:11] <kwriley87> tds - here is my pastebin of my config: replaced-url
• 398[04:30:30] <kwriley87> tds: I don't believe any other network management daemons are running.. this is a fresh install of stretch
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• 400[04:31:22] <tds> kwriley87: so it's picking up another address on the same interface, via dhcp or something?
• 401[04:31:26] <GenTooMan> themill odd I just edited it and added it.
• 402[04:31:50] <kwriley87> when I set my IP in /etc/network/interfaces to .30, it's setting that as the secondary IP and .27 is sticking somehow.. here is another paste of ip address output: replaced-url
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• 404[04:32:04] <kwriley87> that's what it seems like but I'm not sure how..
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• 406[04:32:13] <kwriley87> .27 was the old static IP and I am trying to set it for .30
• 407[04:32:30] <tds> did you reboot after making those changes, or do something else?
• 408[04:32:59] <kwriley87> I haven't rebooted yet -- that was the only thing.. I restarted the networking service, brought the interface down and back up, etc.
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• 410[04:33:45] <tds> if you're trying restarting the service, i'd switch allow-hotplug to auto, and then try restarting the service again?
• 411[04:33:48] <Kurogane> Hello, i've a problem with connections, i'm using nginx and its set default worker_connections (1024) but for some reason when the connections is high i can't connect via ftp, ssh etc, i need to restar nginx to able connect again, if i lower connection i have a problem nginx (worker_connections are not enough).... My question is how i can "increase linux connection"
• 412[04:34:14] <tds> networking.service won't include anything with allow-hotplug, since it just runs ifup with -a
• 413[04:34:18] <themill> !show sources.list GenTooMan
• 414[04:34:19] <dpkg> GenTooMan: Please pastebin the contents of your /etc/apt/sources.list and /etc/apt/sources.list.d/*.list. The easiest way to do this is to pastebin the output of: head -v -n -0 /etc/apt/sources.list{,.d/*}
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• 416[04:35:18] <jmcnaught> kwriley87: was eno1 previously dhcp? check "systemctl status ifup@eno1" to see if there's a dhclient still running
• 417[04:37:04] <kwriley87> jmcnaught: it doesn't look like it? replaced-url
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• 419[04:38:23] <ksk> Kurogane: high volume site? also, what does the up/downlink utilisation look like, when you cannnot connect via ftp?
• 420[04:39:27] <ksk> I dont really think you "run out of connnections" - number of ports can be an issue, but only on really, really high volume servers.
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• 422[04:39:57] <ksk> but this would only rather affect nginx, not other services (see nginx error_log)
• 423[04:41:02] <GenTooMan> themill replaced-url
• 424[04:41:52] <Kurogane> ksk, Yes, full uplink, nginx is not the problem because i not have issue and not error in the log, the only problem i'm facing is i can't connect to another daemons.
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• 429[04:43:11] <ksk> Kurogane: problem then is your bandwith. try limiting nginx its usage
• 430[04:43:28] <ksk> user experience will suffer this way or the other anyways..
• 431[04:43:54] <ksk> fireqos offers a nice port source/dest based QOS interface, I can only recommend it.. ;)
• 432[04:44:09] <ksk> not sure how else you would be able to limit nginx bandwith usage
• 433[04:44:33] <ksk> depending on the amount of incoming connections this might help or not..
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• 435[04:45:13] <themill> GenTooMan: that looks ok now. Don't be surprised when these 3rd party repos (even ones not currently in the sources.list but from which you have still installed packages) end up causing problems with upgrades.
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• 437[04:45:51] <themill> GenTooMan: When you've dealt with mkvtoolnix, can you pastebin apt-get update; apt-cache policy
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• 459[05:09:30] <GenTooMan> themill: hmmm done not sure what it means however
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• 462[05:11:00] <GenTooMan> themill: apt-get update replaced-url
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• 468[05:14:38] <themill> GenTooMan: do you have a /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/50appstream file? Perhaps just move it out of the way for the time being and try apt-get update again
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• 485[05:25:53] <GenTooMan> themill: update on apt-get update replaced-url
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• 488[05:29:32] <themill> GenTooMan: looks happy now... let's see if apt can navigate its way out. Try "apt-get -f install"
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• 522[05:45:53] <GenTooMan> themill: E: Error, pkgProblemResolver::Resolve generated breaks, this may be caused by held packages.
• 523[05:45:53] <GenTooMan> E: Unable to correct dependencies
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• 525[05:46:28] <GenTooMan> themill: I have to get up in 5 hours so I had better call it a night I guess I will work on it tomorrow.
• 526[05:46:45] <themill> ok, good luck with it then!
• 527[05:46:56] <GenTooMan> themill: thanks for the help.
• 528[05:47:12] <rant> I have a mildly annoying graphics issue on a Haswell 4th Gen Core i5, when using multiple displays.. I'm not sure what I could do to run it down or possibly correct it.. but when using 3 displays half or more of one of them depending on the layout, will do this thing where I guess the backingstore is not clearing or something.. anything actually ON the screen (aside from my desktop background, windows are
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• 530[05:47:18] <rant> fine) draw without issue, but upon removing any windows (minimizing, closing) the portion of the screen affected still shows what was there
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• 532[05:48:54] <rant> hmm.. actually now it seems to be conspiring to make a liar out of me :P
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• 534[05:49:24] <rant> I went to change my desktop background to a lighter color to make screenshots and its no longer doing what it had been for days across several reboots
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• 538[05:50:53] <MrHyde> h
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• 540[05:51:04] <MrHyde> guten tag
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• 542[05:51:12] <rant> hello
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• 547[05:52:58] <rant> in germany its currently 6am roughly, and it'd be guten morgen :P here its going on midnight and would probably still be considered night
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• 551[05:53:23] <rant> here in #debian however no greeting is necessary and we speak english
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• 553[05:53:30] <rant> !de
• 554[05:53:30] <dpkg> Deutschsprachige Hilfe bekommt ihr in #debian.de (auf irc.oftc.net, irc.freenode.net oder irc.belwue.de) - German speaking users please go to #debian.de (on irc.oftc.net, irc.freenode.net or irc.belwue.de).
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• 561[05:55:54] <annadane> !ugt
• 562[05:55:54] <dpkg> Universal Greeting Time (UGT) asserts that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant.
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• 573[06:03:04] <MrHyde> rant: here in paris same time
• 574[06:03:16] <MrHyde> Im up since 4.30 am
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• 576[06:04:14] <MrHyde> I know :) Dobardan I could have said too since I'm from Serbia :)
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• 578[06:04:50] <milkt> didn't know about that nice universal time
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• 581[06:05:52] <rant> yes its an irc convention coined by an irc user to resolve issues
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• 623[06:57:41] <melpy> Is there any easy way to have the kernel calculate/set a slightly lower oom_score to all the processes running under a specific user?
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• 651[07:22:17] <rant> melpy: perhaps this replaced-url
• 652[07:23:24] <rant> melpy: it mentions a value for oom_score_adj and it seems to be a method for hooking spawning of processes
• 653[07:23:39] <rant> other than that I know nothing about it, but it should be a point in the right direction
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• 663[07:27:00] <milkt> melpy: also "choom" command in util-linux maybe helpful?
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• 749[08:51:10] <stephanie> test
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• 756[08:55:54] <rant> hmm
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• 761[08:57:27] <Fox> just learned about choom, cool !
• 762[08:57:33] <Fox> milkt: thx :)
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• 808[09:39:53] <stephanie> Hi, I have looked at all the docs but cant find ow to tell the debian installer not to install to a usb
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• 810[09:40:07] <stephanie> can I not load the usb module?
• 811[09:40:12] <stephanie> for part man?
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• 840[09:56:42] <agio> you mean to manually setup an installer USB, yes that's possible
• 841[09:57:03] <ix> has anyone noticed that the font rendering is different in Buster compared to Stretch?
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• 850[09:59:41] <stephanie> agio: no I mean that I want to prevent partman from considering a USB device as an sintallation target
• 851[09:59:54] <stephanie> also I need to do this via preeseed.
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• 853[10:00:26] <stephanie> It sould install to the first storage device that is not USB attached...
• 854[10:00:46] <agio> ah, ok, not sure sorry
• 855[10:01:01] <stephanie> for me on some system the auto install tries to install on the USB stick...
• 856[10:02:02] <agio> obtaining predictable names for block devices can be hard? I might look into udev
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• 866[10:16:08] <at0m> agio: or just ls /dev/disk/by-uuid/ or partuuid
• 867[10:17:38] <agio> is that populated by udev right?
• 868[10:17:59] <at0m> i guess it is. uuid is default in fstab nowadays, afaik. but it takes partition names, too.
• 869[10:18:09] <at0m> ls /dev/disk/by-label/
• 870[10:18:32] <at0m> ls -l, rather. so you see where it symlinks to
• 871[10:18:50] <at0m> stephanie: ^
• 872[10:18:52] <agio> yeah, I thnk its udev that populates that /dev directory, looks promising
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• 878[10:21:26] <stephanie> hmmm... and how could one tell partman to do this via preseed one wonders? :O
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• 906[10:47:08] <sadtaco> I copied a rootfs with rsync -axv (to shrink the root volume on an amazon EC2) but I think I must have done something wrong when it comes to permissions. I get errors like "Couldn't create temporary file /tmp/apt.conf.H7tByg for passing config to apt-key" "W: Not using locking for read only lock file /var/lib/dpkg/lock" and "npm update check failed".
• 907[10:47:33] <sadtaco> Can I fix this in the running debian VM, or do I need to go back and change something about how I mirrored it?
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• 913[10:50:44] <sadtaco> wait I see a problem.. the old uuid for the old drive didn't get rewritten with the new one
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• 915[10:51:06] <sadtaco> "$ sudo mount -o remount,rw /" = "mount: can't find UUID=7eb27385-349a-4c05-be77-152143bc91f2"
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• 946[11:17:31] <sadtaco> i'm running sudo grep -Rl "7eb27385" but it's taking over 15 minutes so far. Hopefully that finds the problem...
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• 953[11:19:12] <captain_flute> Hello every one, i have a question regarding apt-mirror
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• 955[11:19:24] <captain_flute> is it the right place to ask ?
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• 957[11:20:02] <Comp11> Just ask the question my dude
• 958[11:20:08] <petn-randall> captain_flute: Sure, go ahead.
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• 960[11:20:58] <captain_flute> I have 4 computers on a local network, without internet. It is not easy to move them, and i want to install some tools (gimp, thunderbird, audacity etc ...)
• 961[11:21:44] <captain_flute> i would like to plug a laptop on this local network with these softwares
• 962[11:21:57] <captain_flute> and use a command to install the tools on every machine
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• 965[11:22:34] <captain_flute> like "apt install" but using local network
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• 971[11:23:10] <petn-randall> this should work:
• 972[11:23:14] <petn-randall> !apt offline
• 973[11:23:15] <dpkg> To use apt on a machine that doesn't have a network connection (if you have a separate machine that does have a network connection), read replaced-url
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• 977[11:23:51] <captain_flute> thank you i will look at that
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• 999[11:33:49] <captain_flute> apt commands have changed. like "apt-get install" became "apt install", "apt-offline" returns "E: Invalid operation offline"
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• 1002[11:37:34] <fireba11> captain_flute: technically that's a new tool. apt-get got replaced by apt ;-)
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• 1004[11:39:02] <captain_flute> ok, i see, but if i want to use apt-offline, i must first i must first install it on every machine of my local network
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• 1020[11:53:50] <sadtaco> Huh. It's just a 2Gb drive and the grep search still isn't done after an hour. Is that normal?
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• 1024[11:56:37] <Ticho> did you perhaps forget to include one of the arguments to grep, and it is just idly waiting for some input on stdin? that's happened to me more than once
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• 1026[11:58:38] <sadtaco> na i think it's searching because I did get "grep: /home/admin/.forever/sock/worker.etc.sock: No such device or address" and it's using cpu.
• 1027[11:58:44] <sadtaco> or it at least was to start with
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• 1032[12:01:02] <Ticho> that's just one argument, the pattern to search for
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• 1034[12:01:11] <Ticho> you didn't give it list of files to search through
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• 1037[12:01:37] <Ticho> so by default it waits for stdin
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• 1041[12:02:43] <sadtaco> I told it to search /
• 1042[12:03:01] <sadtaco> "sudo grep -Rl "7eb27385" /" I mistyped before
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• 1055[12:09:30] <sadtaco> where else might I find rootfs UUID links, anyway?
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• 1063[12:14:56] <maxxer> I'm having troubles building a mips package for wheezy: replaced-url
• 1064[12:17:20] <sadtaco> I see my problem maybe... it's in /etc/fstab but it is read-only.
• 1065[12:17:24] <sadtaco> The wrong UUID is in there.
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• 1073[12:22:17] <themill> maxxer: you probably need qemu-debootstrap
• 1074[12:22:46] <themill> ,i qemu-user-static
• 1075[12:22:47] <judd> Package qemu-user-static (otherosfs, optional) in stretch/amd64: QEMU user mode emulation binaries (static version). Version: 1:2.8+dfsg-6+deb9u5; Size: 8783.0k; Installed: 88169k; Homepage: replaced-url
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• 1077[12:24:23] <a__pi> maxxer: maybe replaced-url
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• 1080[12:25:51] <wald0> im installing buster from a chroot, which are the packages that i should install for having a normal / complete gnome desktop ?
• 1081[12:26:44] <humpled> can you use tasksel?
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• 1085[12:29:19] <wald0> mmh, i have an error "tasksel: debconf failed to run"
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• 1089[12:31:54] <Resilience> I have one problem with firefox, I have lost my last session, and I have tried to recover from backup files, copying them to sessionstore.jsonlz4, but this seems to not work, what am I doing wrong?
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• 1092[12:34:30] <maxxer> thanks a__pi and themill, will check!
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• 1094[12:35:25] <cusco> hello
• 1095[12:36:04] <Lornzz> Hey, i'm trying to do something supposedly simple but ended up way over my head: i want to rebuild a package installed with apt with the exact same configuration as-is except passing one additional CFLAG. I've found some compile flag info already, but i have no clue about the flags passed to configure. What's the best way to figure them out?
• 1096[12:36:07] <cusco> is there a way I can change php.ini values, and keep them changed when I upgrade php packages? for instance: is there a php-loca-.ini or something of the kind?
• 1097[12:36:29] <Lornzz> package in question is apache2 if that helps :)
• 1098[12:37:12] <dutchfish> Lornzz, have you inspect the makefile?
• 1099[12:37:41] <themill> Lornzz: the debian/rules file sets that
• 1100[12:37:45] <themill> !package recompile
• 1101[12:37:46] <dpkg> 1) Add a <deb-src> line for your current release to your sources.list 2) aptitude update; aptitude install build-essential devscripts fakeroot; aptitude -R build-dep packagename 3) as any user, apt-get source packagename 4) cd packagename-version/; ask me about <debian/rules>; 5) dpkg-buildpackage -uc -us 6) as root, dpkg -i ../packagename-version.deb. Ask me about <debian/rules>, <nocheck>, <nostrip>, <apt-get source>.
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• 1103[12:38:08] <Lornzz> the makefile of the source i get from apt-get source apache2?
• 1104[12:38:14] <themill> no
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• 1106[12:39:10] <Lornzz> the original apache2 source?
• 1107[12:39:15] <themill> no.
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• 1109[12:39:52] <Lornzz> i'm all out of source makefiles then :D
• 1110[12:39:53] <dutchfish> Lornzz, oops, themill was right replaced-url
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• 1112[12:40:05] <Lornzz> the debian/rules file sounds very interesting, thanks for the pointer
• 1113[12:40:42] <sadtaco> Do i choose the drive itself, or the partition on it? replaced-url
• 1114[12:41:04] <a__pi> apt-get build-dep the_package ; apt-get source the_package ; cd the_package ; edit debian/rules ; dpkg-buildpackage ; dpkg -i the_new_deb_files
• 1115[12:42:17] <Lornzz> thank you!
• 1116[12:43:00] <sadtaco> I found the answer through google. oops
• 1117[12:43:06] <a__pi> if you use same version as an official one if there is any update in the official one will be overwritten Lornzz
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• 1119[12:44:11] <Lornzz> cheers, good to know, shouldnt be a problem though as its for a docker build
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• 1170[13:20:43] <captain_flute> Is there a way to install softwares on machines connected to a lan if they don't have apt-offline command installed ?
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• 1179[13:25:03] <stemid> hey I'm trying to understand why/how a debian jessie system updated a couple of packages this morning. yes it has unattended-upgrades for security updates but where is this triggered? I can find no cron jobs in the package files. there is /etc/cron.daily/apt but the update ran at 06:42 which seems like an odd time for cron.daily. manpage says it should run 00:00. according to logs the whole update process
• 1180[13:25:09] <stemid> starts with this line "systemd[1]: Reloading." which I don't understand.
• 1181[13:25:43] <stemid> just want to make sure there are no shenanigans. and that it's just pure unattended-upgrades.
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• 1183[13:26:32] <stemid> at least @daily according to crontab(5) "@daily Run once a day, "0 0 * * *"."
• 1184[13:26:41] <stemid> not sure how /etc/cron.daily is handled.
• 1185[13:27:08] <stemid> /etc/crontab:25 6 * * * root test -x /usr/sbin/anacron || ( cd / && run-parts --report /etc/cron.daily )
• 1186[13:27:11] <stemid> oh there we go.
• 1187[13:27:14] <stemid> just being paranoid
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• 1205[13:39:43] <uio> Am I wrong: ubuntu flavours are more polished than Debian + DE? Example: Debian LXDE.
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• 1209[13:42:02] <rocketmagnet> hi everyone, i've strange lags and i don't know how to get rid of them, my system worked like a charm but now i get those anoying lags, i think it has something to do with my hd but all of the HD's are new, can someone please help me here
• 1210[13:42:12] <uio> Maybe the default Gnome gets more attention than LXDE or XFCE?
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• 1212[13:42:27] <rocketmagnet> i'm using debian stable
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• 1220[13:45:17] <rocketmagnet> i've 2 new solid stade hard disk's and since then i've those anoying lags but both of them are new and the main hd is also a solid stade hard disk that is relative new
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• 1224[13:46:17] <humpled> disks
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• 1229[13:50:34] <Soni> why not make apt use sctp or something
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• 1231[13:50:42] <Soni> for multiple downloads at once
• 1232[13:51:14] <Soni> "for best results make sure your network has SCTP"
• 1233[13:51:18] <Soni> (mine does)
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• 1244[13:59:42] <uio> Or maybe you're all i3 people?
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• 1246[14:00:22] <humpled> not sure what you're asking or who uio
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• 1249[14:01:52] <uio> Oh, just general info about why some Debian DE's have so many little issues, and what the possible connection to (un)stability is...
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• 1255[14:04:23] <humpled> it's no secret that ubuntu has more of a focus on producing a beautiful intuitive environment
• 1256[14:04:37] <jelly> hmph, stretch d-i fails to boot on a 8gen i3 Lenovo workstation
• 1257[14:04:38] <uio> Like power management not working in LXDE, or wallpaper menus just being randomly greyed out i XFCE, or LxQt windows wiping away the wallpaper area they cover, or notifications messing up interface when switching between DEs... I like Debian, but it is certainly not a 'just works' distro...
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• 1260[14:05:13] <humpled> the stability should be at least as good with debian though, it's the overall design and the little tweaks that make it seamless
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• 1262[14:06:24] <uio> What does stability mean when basic things like 'suspend after 15 minutes of inactivity' don't work, or sound stops working after resume after suspend. Stability = not totally crashing??
• 1263[14:06:38] <humpled> personally i never liked lxde but xfce works perfectly for me
• 1264[14:07:13] <uio> humpled, For XFCE, try selecting a different wallpaper folder in the Settings. They are greyed-out...
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• 1267[14:08:01] <humpled> yup those are little things, probably could be fixed quite easily if someone who cared put their mind to it
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• 1269[14:09:03] <uio> humpled, Good point. As an unexperienced user, all these little things make the user experience quite terrible, but I suppose that experienced people can just solve them for their machines...
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• 1271[14:09:22] <humpled> ah weird, and yet i did select my own folder, it's $HOME/pictures/wallpapers, can't remember how i did it though
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• 1274[14:09:48] <uio> humpled, It's greyed out for you too?
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• 1276[14:10:10] <humpled> in the folder selector pane all the folders are fuzzy yes
• 1277[14:10:27] <uio> Work around is to drag the folder to the side folder list in Thunar so that it shows up in the Settings selector.
• 1278[14:10:59] <uio> Anyway.
• 1279[14:11:45] <uio> If you enjoy buggy interfaces check out LxQt. It's wild!
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• 1287[14:13:19] <humpled> yup this whole spread of Qt everywhere is quite interesting
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• 1289[14:13:50] <no_gravity> I still have to find a way to tell Debian "When I press ^+7 which usually would result in ⁷ please type a { instead.". I wonder if it is possible at all.
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• 1291[14:14:42] <uio> no_gravity, Maybe depends on your DE?
• 1292[14:14:53] <uio> no_gravity, And your keyboard layout?
• 1293[14:14:54] <no_gravity> uio: Gnome 2.
• 1294[14:14:56] <humpled> rightalt + 7 makes { for me
• 1295[14:14:58] <no_gravity> uio: German.
• 1296[14:15:17] <no_gravity> humpled: Yes, but rightAlt is super hard to reach in combination with 7 on a German layout.
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• 1300[14:16:53] <uio> no_gravity, Sorry, I don't use Gnome, and don't have a German keyboard....
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• 1302[14:17:10] <humpled> so what do you mean by ^
• 1303[14:17:25] <frikinz> Hi. Why is intel-microcode set as Priority: Optional ? So is amd64-microcode. Because it depends on the effective arch?
• 1304[14:17:30] <no_gravity> humpled: The key you press before 7 to get ⁷.
• 1305[14:17:41] <frikinz> Just realized half of my machines have that package
• 1306[14:17:55] <dvs> frikinz, because it's non-free?
• 1307[14:18:25] <frikinz> oh right :(
• 1308[14:21:07] <frikinz> I haven't really followed benchmarks but last time I checked this was mainly impacting servers (like databases). I have a desktop not having that microcode updated.
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• 1310[14:21:30] <frikinz> Hope I don't see an important performance impact on that desktop machine
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• 1326[14:35:09] <pagetelegram> Got a device running Jessie that is console only. Is there something I can use to agree to connect for https replaced-url
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• 1329[14:36:21] <pagetelegram> *unresponsive with hitting on "agree" in lynx
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• 1347[14:50:34] <greycat> someone please remind me, for the flash plugin for firefox-esr in buster, do I want "PPAPI" or "NPAPI"
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• 1349[14:51:57] <greycat> hmm, there are files with _npapi_ in them in my ~/Downloads so I'll try that one
• 1350[14:52:18] <greycat> yay cryptic menu choices with no obvious right or wrong answers
• 1351[14:52:37] <dvs> what do you think? ;-P
• 1352[14:54:01] <greycat> What I *think* is whoever the moron is at Kronos who decided that when they "upgraded" Kronos to a new version a few years ago and decided they would require Flash (which the previous version didn't require), and on top of that made it use the most incredibly OBTUSE user interface I've seen in years... well, it's a piece of shit.
• 1353[14:55:26] <greycat> But I have to use it twice a month, and it requires Flash, and every once in a while Firefox tells me "your Flash is obsolete, go fuck yourself" and then I have to relearn how to install Flash. gain.
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• 1357[14:57:20] <dvs> That's darn weird! No "one and done" here?
• 1358[14:57:31] <uio> greycat, lol
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• 1365[14:59:10] <greycat> NPAPI appears to have worked.
• 1366[14:59:21] <Fox> PPAPI is for Chrome
• 1367[14:59:33] <Fox> NPAPI was the right choice
• 1368[15:00:13] <greycat> because it's so obvious from those meaningless abbreviations which are the only visible things on the menu
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• 1371[15:01:18] <Fox> I do fully agree
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• 1405[15:19:11] <Lady_Aleena> ,v peazip
• 1406[15:19:12] <judd> No package named 'peazip' was found in amd64.
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• 1408[15:20:55] <Lady_Aleena> ,b1-archiver
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• 1410[15:21:07] <Lady_Aleena> ,v b1-archiver
• 1411[15:21:08] <judd> No package named 'b1-archiver' was found in amd64.
• 1412[15:21:16] <greycat> you can /msg the bot if you just want private answers
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• 1418[15:23:59] <Lady_Aleena> Are there no file archivers that preserve paths with a gui?
• 1419[15:24:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1553
• 1420[15:24:05] <ChunkzZ> where can I find linux headers for:4.4.171 ??????????
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• 1423[15:24:21] <greycat> wherever you found that kernel. that's where you find its headers.
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• 1425[15:24:46] <greycat> the headers are not GENERIC. that's why you need them. they are created when the kernel image is created, according to the configuration that was used at that time.
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• 1427[15:25:17] <greycat> since that isn't a Debian kernel image, Debian will not have the matching headers for it.
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• 1433[15:26:18] <Dirkos> Can someone advice me what the negative points could be of disabling Transparent Huge Pages?
• 1434[15:26:28] <Dirkos> 1417:M 25 Oct 06:13:31.840 # WARNING you have Transparent Huge Pages (THP) support enabled in your kernel. This will create latency and memory usage issues with Redi
• 1435[15:26:43] <Dirkos> Thing is that i more running on this server, DB/Redis/Nginx/PHP
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• 1441[15:27:42] <Tenkawa> Lady_Aleena: should be several of them out there. I dont use gui's usually so I can't point to one though
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• 1443[15:28:25] <ChunkzZ> greycat, sigh.
• 1444[15:28:39] <Lady_Aleena> Tenkawa, I've been looking. The one I have now, KDE Ark doesn't preserve paths.
• 1445[15:29:04] <Tenkawa> really? no flags you can turn on and off?
• 1446[15:29:23] <Lady_Aleena> Tenkawa, nope.
• 1447[15:29:24] <karlpinc> Lady_Aleena: Does not sound like much of an archive manager.
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• 1449[15:29:32] <Tenkawa> agreed
• 1450[15:29:34] <Lady_Aleena> karlpinc, its KDE
• 1451[15:29:46] <greycat> This is unix. Open a shell and type a command.
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• 1454[15:31:04] <themill> Lady_Aleena: you might want to define "preserve paths".
• 1455[15:31:09] <Lady_Aleena> If you want to get Windows and Mac users, good gui is needed.
• 1456[15:31:17] <greycat> Why would we want that?
• 1457[15:31:49] <Lady_Aleena> greycat, so Linux can take over the world and free people from the oppressive corporations.
• 1458[15:31:50] * karlpinc has given up on GUIs. None are good. On any OS.
• 1459[15:32:28] <Tenkawa> themill: I think preserve paths is pretty clear unless Lady_Aleena's definition is way out there
• 1460[15:32:43] <themill> Tenkawa: it's not at the point where I can't figure out what it means
• 1461[15:32:50] <Tenkawa> huh/?
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• 1463[15:33:26] <Tenkawa> preserving paths has been a standard filesystem term for ages
• 1464[15:33:28] <Lady_Aleena> If I archive the /home/me/Documents/replaced-url
• 1465[15:33:36] <themill> Lady_Aleena: archive how?
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• 1467[15:33:46] <themill> Lady_Aleena: you've been around long enough that you know that details are needed.
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• 1470[15:34:25] <Lady_Aleena> themill, I was trying to use KDE's Ark to archive files, however, there are no options to preserve paths that I can find in the interface.
• 1471[15:34:45] <greycat> Lady_Aleena: "When I do ____ the result is ___ but I wanted ____ instead"
• 1472[15:34:55] <themill> Lady_Aleena: "ask".
• 1473[15:35:06] <Tenkawa> Lady_Aleena: do you see anything about use relative paths in the gui?
• 1474[15:35:17] <Lady_Aleena> Tenkawa, no.
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• 1476[15:35:21] <greycat> and the ONE example you gave said it DID preserve a path
• 1477[15:36:01] <greycat> but you used the word "whole" ... I can't tell whether that is relevant or not.
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• 1479[15:36:26] <themill> Lady_Aleena: please give instructions that would give me some hope of replicating what you are doing
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• 1482[15:36:51] <Lady_Aleena> While trying to archive various directories with KDE's Ark, the full paths were not preserved as I expected as I added directories and files.
• 1483[15:37:05] *** Joins: Newami_ (~Newami@replaced-ip)
• 1484[15:37:11] <greycat> "I got ____ but I wanted ____ instead"
• 1485[15:37:17] <greycat> please fill in the blanks
• 1486[15:37:25] <greycat> give ACTUAL INFORMATION, not vague descriptions
• 1487[15:37:27] <Lady_Aleena> I read Ark's help, but there were no instructions for preserving the full paths.
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• 1489[15:37:57] <themill> Lady_Aleena: What does "while trying to archive" mean?
• 1490[15:38:25] <Lady_Aleena> So, the files from the various directories got jumbled together in one large directory instead of their original directory structure.
• 1491[15:38:44] <greycat> 09:33 Lady_Aleena> If I archive the /home/me/Documents/replaced-url
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• 1493[15:39:02] <Lady_Aleena> s/the whole/, I want the whole/;
• 1494[15:39:08] <greycat> I don't know how to reconcile these two very different statements.
• 1495[15:39:21] <greycat> Oh, the first one was simply 180 degrees WRONG. I see.
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• 1500[15:41:35] <themill> Lady_Aleena: I still don't know what you're actually doing.
• 1501[15:41:51] <Lady_Aleena> I want to create a .zip file where the file paths are preserved.
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• 1503[15:42:37] <themill> ark does this by default.
• 1504[15:42:38] <Lady_Aleena> s/file paths/full file paths/;
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• 1506[15:42:56] <Lady_Aleena> themill, no it does not. I was using ark, and it messed up the paths.
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• 1508[15:43:14] <themill> *sigh*
• 1509[15:43:22] <themill> well it does for me, and you refuse to tell me what you're doing
• 1510[15:43:46] <karlpinc> Lady_Aleena: How did you unzip it?
• 1511[15:44:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1559
• 1512[15:44:29] <Lady_Aleena> I open ark, I created the .zip file, I begin to add directories, the files in the directories get dumped into one big directory instead maintaining the structure.
• 1513[15:44:47] <Lady_Aleena> karlpinc, I am not unzipping, I am zipping.
• 1514[15:45:02] <greycat> How do you KNOW that the .zip archive has the wrong paths, then?
• 1515[15:45:20] <themill> Lady_Aleena: you're adding directories one at a time?
• 1516[15:45:21] <karlpinc> Lady_Aleena: Just wondering how you then know what's in the zip file.
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• 1519[15:45:58] <Lady_Aleena> karlpinc, I am creating the zip file.
• 1520[15:46:04] <Lady_Aleena> themill, yes.
• 1521[15:46:14] <themill> ahah. the glimmer of an actual detail
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• 1523[15:46:38] <greycat> Two details now. The first was that she's using .zip.
• 1524[15:47:00] <Lady_Aleena> I can not highlight more than one directory at once.
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• 1526[15:47:45] <Lady_Aleena> Here is the list of directories (and 1 file) that I want to archive.
• 1527[15:47:47] <dvs> Oh highlight. using a GUI of some sort
• 1528[15:48:13] <Lady_Aleena> replaced-url
• 1529[15:48:29] * Lady_Aleena didn't sleep well.
• 1530[15:49:09] *** Quits: robs_ (~robs@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
• 1531[15:49:50] <Tenkawa> yikes.. one of my usb thumbdrives is almost too hot to hold... I think that one might be done
• 1532[15:49:55] *** Joins: yokisuci (~yokisuci@replaced-ip)
• 1533[15:50:10] <Tenkawa> I noticed it had been acting up recently
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• 1535[15:51:09] <dvs> shoot it
• 1536[15:51:32] <Tenkawa> snap it
• 1537[15:51:45] <dvs> no dramatic enough
• 1538[15:51:56] <Lady_Aleena> Are there no archiving tools like WinZip or WinRar for Linux?
• 1539[15:51:58] *** Joins: Unline (~Unline@replaced-ip)
• 1540[15:52:05] <Tenkawa> heheh
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• 1542[15:52:24] <greycat> This is unix. Open a shell and type a command. You would have been done ages ago.
• 1543[15:52:36] <Lady_Aleena> What command?
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• 1545[15:52:54] <greycat> zip foo.zip file1 file2 dir1
• 1546[15:53:10] <dvs> zip -r foo.zip file1 file2 dir1
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• 1550[15:53:59] <greycat> ok, fair enough. I never use .zip unless I have to.
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• 1553[15:55:59] <Tenkawa> oh yeah that drive is ****
• 1554[15:56:11] <Tenkawa> I just put another one on and ot flee
• 1555[15:56:17] <Tenkawa> er flew
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• 1557[15:56:38] <wr> debian 10?
• 1558[15:56:40] *** Joins: `ajven (~Hakate@replaced-ip)
• 1559[15:56:45] <greycat> verb?
• 1560[15:57:00] <`ajven> hello, how to stop XFCE4 to install nvidia driver?
• 1561[15:57:03] <Lady_Aleena> The only archive file types I am familiar with are .zip and .rar.
• 1562[15:57:21] <greycat> how is that even POSSIBLE
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• 1564[15:57:24] <Tenkawa> time to get rsync copy going heheheh
• 1565[15:57:35] <greycat> everything in Linux is .tar.gz or .tar.bz2 or .tar.xz
• 1566[15:57:46] <greycat> .zip is for Windows and Java crap
• 1567[15:57:59] <Lady_Aleena> greycat, because I haven't archived anything since I installed Linux.
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• 1570[15:59:34] <Lady_Aleena> Since installing Debian with KDE, I mostly use Firefox, Hexchat, VLC, and Geany and once a month LibeOffice Calc.
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• 1574[16:01:19] <Tenkawa> rsync is awesome
• 1575[16:01:45] <Lady_Aleena> Tenkawa, I know. I use it occasionally.
• 1576[16:01:54] <Lady_Aleena> I work on the command line rarely.
• 1577[16:01:56] <Tenkawa> I use it constantly
• 1578[16:02:23] <Tenkawa> I almost exclusively use commandline
• 1579[16:05:46] <Tenkawa> I'm saddeed because my largest capacity thumb drive doesnt get recognized by the driver as a usb 3 device although it is
• 1580[16:06:02] <Tenkawa> kind of annoying
• 1581[16:07:16] <Lady_Aleena> replaced-url
• 1582[16:08:04] <greycat> 09:53 dvs> zip -r foo.zip file1 file2 dir1
• 1583[16:08:30] <Lady_Aleena> greycat, you may thwop me for not using -r.
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• 1587[16:10:02] <Lady_Aleena> Archive done, thank you all.
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• 1589[16:11:07] <karlpinc> zip generally sucks as an archive. The default is not to keep directories, although I think the gnu implementation has some other sensible default. And unzipping is wack as well. But I don't recall much of the detail because I try to avoid it whenever possible.
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• 1591[16:11:58] <greycat> zip(1) isn't a GNU program
• 1592[16:12:21] <karlpinc> I should have said FOSS.
• 1593[16:12:23] <greycat> as far as comparing .zip to .tar.gz goes, each one has advantages and disadvantages.
• 1594[16:12:59] <greycat> .tar.gz gets better compression because the whole thing is compressed at once; the trade-off for that is that you can't extract just one file from it without reading the whole thing
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• 1597[16:13:17] <greycat> .zip is better suited for applications where you just want to cherry-pick files
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• 1599[16:13:55] <greycat> tar was also built on and for unix, so it understands unix owners and permissions and stuff... not so sure about .zip
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• 1604[16:14:40] <Lady_Aleena> Now, if anyone wants to catechize me on the "proper" Linux file archiving, go for it.
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• 1606[16:15:22] <greycat> if you need to store owners and groups and permissions in addition to names and mtimes, .zip may not be the best choice
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• 1612[16:18:22] <karlpinc> Lady_Aleena: An important thing to know about tar is that it is an archive format, only. Compression is "extra", and you can choose what kind to use or none. tar itself does some kinds of compression if you ask it to. You can always uncompress a compressed tar archive with an appropriate (un)compression program and wind up with (wait for it) an uncompressed tar archive.
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• 1616[16:20:42] <wr> !buster
• 1617[16:20:43] <dpkg> The release following Debian 9 "Stretch" is codenamed "Buster" (Andy's pet Dachshund in Toy Story) and will be Debian 10. replaced-url
• 1618[16:20:43] <karlpinc> Lady_Aleena: There is also cpio and ar for archive programs. (The big use of cpio these days is in rpm packages. IIRC. And the big use for ar has always been system libraries.) Generally tar is the go-to unix archive format.
• 1619[16:20:58] <karlpinc> !tell wr about guess the release date
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• 1624[16:21:36] <wr> karlpinc, if update to buster will have any problem from stretch?
• 1625[16:21:44] <Lady_Aleena> Ownership and permissions are not something I think about often. Compression is more important to me when archiving files.
• 1626[16:21:47] <greycat> wr: possibly, yes.
• 1627[16:22:28] <karlpinc> wr: You should read and follow the buster release notes when upgrading. And because buster is not yet released it may still have problems. Although I wouldn't think there's a lot of changes left before release.
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• 1631[16:22:43] <greycat> wr: see replaced-url
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• 1637[16:24:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1558
• 1638[16:24:52] <wr> greycat, karlpinc how long do you think it will take it to be out?
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• 1641[16:25:16] <Lady_Aleena> The only time I think about ownership or permissions is when I have to edit a file that isn't in my home directory like sources.list or somesuch.
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• 1646[16:26:56] <Lady_Aleena> I haven't figured out how to open a file like that in Geany as root while in Geany while I am logged in as me.
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• 1652[16:28:21] <greycat> The normal unix way is: you open a terminal with a shell, become root in that shell, and then launch a terminal-based editor to edit the file.
• 1653[16:28:35] <greycat> nano, emacs, vi, whatever you prefer
• 1654[16:28:36] <Lady_Aleena> So, I have to edit those types of files with nano, and nano is a bit of a pain because I can't use the commands I am used to like ctrl-c to copy and ctrl-v for paste.
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• 1656[16:29:37] <karlpinc> Lady_Aleena: For "lots" of compression I like to use no compression at all but instead rsync with hardlinks. That way if the file does not change you use only an inode and no other disk at all. dirvish and rsnapshot do this. You can get "compression" ratios of 100/1. Naturally, it all depends on what you're doing and how often files change as to whether this makes sense.
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• 1658[16:30:14] <greycat> I don't think she ever told us why she's making these .zip files or what she's doing with them.
• 1659[16:30:34] <greycat> They don't appear to be *backups* the way a normal unix sysadmin thinks of backups. She doesn't even seem to understand the concept yet.
• 1660[16:30:44] <diogenes_> Lady_Aleena, in terminal you use: ctrl+shift+c = copy ctrl+shift+v paste
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• 1662[16:31:08] <colo-work> (that depends a lot on the terminal emulator that is in use)
• 1663[16:31:12] <greycat> or just use the normal X11 mouse features to copy and paste
• 1664[16:31:13] <Lady_Aleena> karlpinc, what I just compressed the files above because it is a dead project I am no longer working on, so I am just putting them somewhere to gather dust.
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• 1666[16:32:09] <karlpinc> Lady_Aleena: The best "Unix" way to copy and paste is to use the middle mouse button. (Of course this assumes you have a terminal window in a GUI.) You hilight what you want to copy. This copies it automatically. Then you click the middle mouse button and it pastes.
• 1667[16:32:53] <Lady_Aleena> However, the few files that I edit with nano as root are small, so my fingers and wrist don't get too much of an additional workout.
• 1668[16:33:03] <greycat> and then Microsoft Windows happened, and people stopped making mice with three easily clickable buttons
• 1669[16:33:27] <greycat> but, history is history and I can't change it
• 1670[16:33:44] <Lady_Aleena> It is just that sometimes I forget to use sudo, and when I go to save the changes, it won't. I have to reedit the file over again.
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• 1673[16:33:58] <greycat> Lady_Aleena: yeah, I've done that more than once
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• 1677[16:34:18] <karlpinc> Lady_Aleena: It is worth investing the time in learning a real text editor, if you spend much time typing. Emacs or vi. (Emacs has a tutorial.) The speed increase is significant because you're not constantly removing your hands from the keyboard and reaching for the mouse.
• 1678[16:34:23] *** Parts: diogenes_ (~diogenes_@replaced-ip) ("vergissmeinnicht")
• 1679[16:34:24] <Lady_Aleena> That is when I get mad at the whole "ownership" thing.
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• 1681[16:35:12] <karlpinc> Lady_Aleena: (FYI, the emacs doc package is in non-free. On stretch: emacs25-common-non-dfsg Which is a bad name for a doc package.)
• 1682[16:35:17] <Lady_Aleena> karlpinc, for 99% of my editing needs, Geany is good enough. I don't edit root files often.
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• 1685[16:35:34] <Lady_Aleena> karlpinc, I'm still using Jessie.
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• 1687[16:35:57] <karlpinc> Lady_Aleena: Whatever works.
• 1688[16:35:58] <Lady_Aleena> I can't remember exactly when I last edited a root file.
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• 1692[16:37:07] <Lady_Aleena> So, I do most of my editing/writing in Geany. I mostly write perl scripts.
• 1693[16:37:33] <karlpinc> Lady_Aleena: Someday you'll need to upgrade to a newer release. It's usually eaiser if you keep up with whatever the current stable is, because then people remember how to help with that particular upgrade. (I suppose you could also do what the MS Windows people do and completely re-install, but I find that annoying.) Anyway, you're free to use jesse. Just saying.
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• 1699[16:38:15] <Lady_Aleena> karlpinc, I know I should upgrade, but upgrading always scares me.
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• 1701[16:39:26] <Lady_Aleena> I need to get a new usb drive to back up my documents just in case things go badly.
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• 1703[16:39:38] <karlpinc> Lady_Aleena: It's often easy. Just takes a bit of time. stretch->buster will be slightly tricker for those who installed prior to stretch, but not a problem if you follow the instructions.
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• 1706[16:40:17] <Lady_Aleena> karlpinc, I just wish there were instructions without all the technobabble.
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• 1708[16:40:41] <karlpinc> Lady_Aleena: One of these "recent" upgrades upgraded apache and the new apache was not backwards compatible. That was tedious. But only if you're running apache.
• 1709[16:41:07] <Lady_Aleena> They messed with apache?!
• 1710[16:41:17] <SerajewelKS> is it just me or does mdadm-raid really hate kicking failed drives out by itself?
• 1711[16:41:20] *** Joins: wr (~wr@replaced-ip)
• 1712[16:41:35] <SerajewelKS> seems it would rather the system become unusably slow than kick a failed drive
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• 1714[16:41:55] <karlpinc> Lady_Aleena: If you have 2 computers you can ask here as you go through the upgrade if you have any questions about the steps in the release notes. They are detailed, which makes for technical, but that's the point. Nothing is left out that way.
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• 1716[16:42:10] <Lady_Aleena> karlpinc, I don't have two computers in the same room.
• 1717[16:42:26] <karlpinc> Lady_Aleena: Often, you can continue to use the computer you are upgrading. But it's always more comfortable to have a 2nd one for irc, just in case. :)
• 1718[16:43:13] <Lady_Aleena> karlpinc, thank you for making my terror worse. I depend on apache!
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• 1720[16:44:22] <karlpinc> Lady_Aleena: You'll have to use a newer apache eventually. (IIRC, it was the "allow/deny" apache config statements that changed.) Let's see....
• 1721[16:44:26] <Lady_Aleena> I'm actually going to start crying. Sorry.
• 1722[16:44:47] <wr> Lady_Aleena, i would upgrade jessie
• 1723[16:44:59] <greycat> the big apache change was 2.2 to 2.4 ... was that wheezy->jessie? I forget now.
• 1724[16:45:08] <greycat> ,v apache2
• 1725[16:45:09] <judd> Package: apache2 on amd64 -- jessie: 2.4.10-10+deb8u12; jessie-security: 2.4.10-10+deb8u14; stretch: 2.4.25-3+deb9u7; stretch-security: 2.4.25-3+deb9u7; buster: 2.4.38-3; sid: 2.4.38-3
• 1726[16:45:17] <wr> Lady_Aleena, unless you run a server
• 1727[16:45:17] <greycat> jessie has 2.4 so she shouldn't be facing that
• 1728[16:45:28] <karlpinc> Lady_Aleena: Looks like the major apache versions are the same past jessie, so no worries.
• 1729[16:45:36] <SerajewelKS> Lady_Aleena: also take a backup first, then you can revert if things go terribly
• 1730[16:45:49] <Lady_Aleena> I know I have to upgrade soon, but if apache config has been changed...
• 1731[16:45:51] <karlpinc> Lady_Aleena: It must have been the upgrade to jessie that was tricky with apche.
• 1732[16:46:34] <greycat> jessie to stretch is actually pretty smooth for servers, unless you trip over the mysql -> mariadb thing for some reason
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• 1735[16:46:50] <greycat> the big changes in stretch were on the desktop side
• 1736[16:47:02] <karlpinc> Did anybody trip over the mysql/mariadb thing? It seemed to be painless.
• 1737[16:47:04] <Lady_Aleena> It took me weeks to get apache working the way I wanted it to work, and a lot of pestering people for help that embarrassed me.
• 1738[16:47:18] <Lady_Aleena> I can't go through that again.
• 1739[16:47:19] <greycat> I had a few minor glitches which I wrote up on replaced-url
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• 1741[16:47:59] <karlpinc> Lady_Aleena: I haven't had apache issues upgrading since jessie.
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• 1744[16:49:26] <Lady_Aleena> karlpinc, let me calm down please. I need to stop crying.
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• 1755[16:52:32] <Lady_Aleena> Sorry, but apache is one thing that I dread having to reconfigure.
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• 1757[16:52:48] <greycat> understandable
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• 1761[16:54:43] <Lady_Aleena> Going from Windows XP Apache to Debian Wheezy Apache then to Jessie Apache was so hard.
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• 1766[16:55:11] <greycat> wheezy->jessie was the big apache change (2.2 to 2.4), so yeah
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• 1769[16:55:46] <Lady_Aleena> Windows XP->Wheezy was a culture shock.
• 1770[16:55:48] <greycat> (the most recent big apache change, anyway)
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• 1773[16:57:01] <karlpinc> I kinda dread apache as well. So I try to use nginx.
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• 1777[16:58:03] <afidegnum> hi, using wget, is there a way to find out the property of a file? i.e wget url.file.com/this_file.gz how do i find the property i.e Size, date modified, etc.. of that file ?
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• 1780[16:58:22] <greycat> our internal wiki here is mediawiki on apache, so I still have that apache box (currently stretch) going... on my personal web site, I'm using moin on uwsgi on nginx.
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• 1790[17:01:45] <Lady_Aleena> I still dread rebooting from my years with Windows.
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• 1792[17:02:18] <SerajewelKS> afidegnum: i'm not sure about wget, but from memory "curl -I" does what you want
• 1793[17:02:38] * Tenkawa falls over after vacuuming.... working in computers is easy compared to this
• 1794[17:02:50] <wr> what tools can use for malware scanning on the debian?
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• 1796[17:03:34] * Tenkawa is prepping a test lab for himself
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• 1798[17:03:56] <afidegnum> ok
• 1799[17:03:57] <Tenkawa> but man its a lot of work to setup
• 1800[17:04:18] <Tenkawa> afidegnum: what are you trying to do?
• 1801[17:06:05] <afidegnum> i m reading a csv file which gets updated frequently so i want to download and parse that file. i am saving the last modified date into the DB and check on the server if newer. using python
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• 1811[17:09:04] <Tenkawa> there should be a python module to check that I thought
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• 1816[17:15:27] <karlpinc> greycat: WSGI is cool. But uwsgi sucks, because the docs are all cookie-cutter-style. If you don't find your exact use-case you have to poke with a stick. I always reverse-proxy nginx to something else (waitress often, gnunicorn, etc.) On the other hand the moin/nginx docs are pretty painless IIRC.
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• 1820[17:16:24] <greycat> I got it working, but it was many years ago, so don't ask me what I did. Unless you can find whatever I wrote up on the moin sites.
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• 1823[17:16:47] <greycat> replaced-url
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• 1826[17:19:20] <SerajewelKS> i prefer reverse proxying as well because the config tends to be much simpler
• 1827[17:19:42] <Lady_Aleena> Setting up apache on Debian drove me and everyone around me on IRC crazy. Let me go check to make sure I have all of my apache configs copied.
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• 1829[17:21:05] <SerajewelKS> Lady_Aleena: if you have an external drive you have enough free space on, i'd tar up / (tar --one-file-system -cf /media/external-disk/backup.tar /) before proceeding
• 1830[17:21:31] <SerajewelKS> Lady_Aleena: this assumes / is the only volume
• 1831[17:21:54] <SerajewelKS> with this tar file you can restore the system exactly as it is today
• 1832[17:22:23] <Lady_Aleena> SerajewelKS, there is a LOT of junk in my home dir.
• 1833[17:22:49] <SerajewelKS> if you have the space on another disk, it's worth it even if there's junk
• 1834[17:23:24] <Lady_Aleena> I mean, I thought I had Firefox set up to clear the cache upon close, but Firefox does not clear the damned cache upon close.
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• 1836[17:24:01] <Lady_Aleena> Neither does Chromium.
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• 1840[17:25:10] <SerajewelKS> you can always use --exclude to tell tar to skip things
• 1841[17:26:32] <Lady_Aleena> SerajewelKS, that would be an awfully long list of excludes.
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• 1844[17:27:14] <karlpinc> Lady_Aleena: FYI. Upgrading won't change any of the configs you've changed (or put them back if you deleted them). Where the wheezy->jessie upgrade whet difficult was because the new apache software was not compatible with the old apache configs.
• 1845[17:27:32] <karlpinc> Lady_Aleena: You can exclude directories.
• 1846[17:28:21] <SerajewelKS> Lady_Aleena: the point is, you should do a full system backup before upgrading anyway. even if the backup contains a lot of junk.
• 1847[17:28:40] <SerajewelKS> Lady_Aleena: you need a way to revert if things go horribly wrong, and the backup will give you some peace of mind and make the whole thing much less stressful
• 1848[17:28:47] *** Joins: wr (~wr@replaced-ip)
• 1849[17:29:30] <SerajewelKS> i have daily full-system backups running on all of my systems. it includes a lot of redundant stuff like .git directories, which could be rebuild by re-cloning things. but that's not the point of a backup. the point of a backup is to be able to dump it back on the system and have everything back where it was.
• 1850[17:29:50] <karlpinc> Lady_Aleena: Note however, I hear that at least some desktop software does not keep your home dir config files on upgrade. The software wants to do it's own thing. This is hearsay, and I don't have experience.
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• 1852[17:30:25] <Lady_Aleena> Most of the time I don't know what I am doing when it comes to my system. I wish I had taken a class on Linux before switching over to it.
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• 1854[17:30:48] <Tenkawa> Lady_Aleena: dont worry... just keep working at it...
• 1855[17:30:55] <karlpinc> Backups means multiple copies. If you overwrite a single copy every day, then if you broke something day before yesterday you don't have a backup!
• 1856[17:31:02] <Tenkawa> thats how many of us learned
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• 1863[17:34:49] <Tenkawa> df -m
• 1864[17:34:52] <Tenkawa> oops
• 1865[17:34:54] <Tenkawa> heehee
• 1866[17:35:20] <Tenkawa> that first rsync is so close to finishing
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• 1869[17:35:45] <Tenkawa> too bad i have a whole second one to run
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• 1871[17:36:02] <Tenkawa> much smaller though
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• 1873[17:36:39] <SerajewelKS> karlpinc: indeed, my backups are using restic which maintains as many snapshots as i want and deduplicates among them
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• 1875[17:36:56] <SerajewelKS> plus the backups are routinely copied off-site
• 1876[17:37:02] <Lady_Aleena> SerajewelKS, some sort of version control?
• 1877[17:37:04] *** Joins: VoiceOfReason (~max@replaced-ip)
• 1878[17:37:15] <SerajewelKS> Lady_Aleena: no, version control has a different goal
• 1879[17:37:24] <SerajewelKS> in particular VCS usually includes branch/merge functionality
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• 1881[17:37:45] <Lady_Aleena> I need brunch.
• 1882[17:37:49] *** Joins: gugi_ (~Gugi@replaced-ip)
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• 1884[17:38:21] <jhutchins_wk> whois Lady_Aleena
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• 1886[17:38:22] <SerajewelKS> restic is similar in some ways to git, but each backup is not dependent on a parent backup, like in git you can't just remove a parent commit
• 1887[17:38:23] *** Joins: ae-35 (~ae-35@replaced-ip)
• 1888[17:38:36] <SerajewelKS> so you can toss old backups if you want
• 1889[17:38:50] <SerajewelKS> if you used git for backup you could not toss any old data without creating new history
• 1890[17:38:54] <jhutchins_wk> Lady_Aleena: Canada?
• 1891[17:39:02] <Lady_Aleena> Tenkawa, btw, I vacuumed my house yesterday.
• 1892[17:39:06] <Lady_Aleena> jhutchins_wk, no.
• 1893[17:39:20] *** Quits: eddof13 (~eddof13@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 1894[17:39:24] <jhutchins_wk> Just wondering what time zone brunch is in.
• 1895[17:39:48] <Tenkawa> jhutchins_wk: its brunch time here too
• 1896[17:40:09] <Tenkawa> but you knew that I think
• 1897[17:40:32] <jhutchins_wk> I'm on Central time.
• 1898[17:40:37] <Tenkawa> Easter
• 1899[17:40:38] <Tenkawa> n
• 1900[17:40:39] <Lady_Aleena> jhutchins_wk, brunch is whenever you want it, but usually before noon, though brunch might turn into lunch.
• 1901[17:40:41] <greycat> eastern half of North America would qualify
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• 1903[17:40:57] <jhutchins_wk> Yeah, prob'ly.
• 1904[17:41:05] <Tenkawa> and I havent eaten all morning
• 1905[17:41:16] <Lady_Aleena> Me neither, that is why I said brunch.
• 1906[17:41:22] <Tenkawa> I forgot to eat breakfast
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• 1908[17:41:54] <SerajewelKS> i never eat breakfast. i get nauseated if i eat in the morning.
• 1909[17:42:03] <Tenkawa> I have to
• 1910[17:42:14] <Tenkawa> I usually eat 4-5 meals a day
• 1911[17:42:35] <SerajewelKS> same but none before noon :)
• 1912[17:42:40] <karlpinc> #debian-offtopic :)
• 1913[17:42:48] <Tenkawa> sorry karlpinc
• 1914[17:42:52] <SerajewelKS> my wife says that i don't eat, i "graze"
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• 1918[17:44:48] <Tenkawa> afk... finding food..
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• 1942[17:59:14] <Akuw_> hi, i installed apache2 and php7.0, but my php files are not interpreted
• 1943[17:59:32] <Akuw_> libapache2-mod-php7.0 is installed
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• 1946[17:59:53] <Akuw_> html file are viewed ok, but no the php files
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• 1950[18:01:32] <karlpinc> Akuw_: You restarted apache?
• 1951[18:01:43] <Akuw_> yes
• 1952[18:02:08] <Akuw_> PHP 7.0.33-1+0~20181208203126.8+stretch~1.gbp2ff763
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• 1957[18:02:54] <EdePopede> php are sent as-is?
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• 1959[18:03:50] <Akuw_> EdePopede: what do you mean?
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• 1961[18:04:31] <karlpinc> Akuw_: Do you get a php file delivered to your browser?
• 1962[18:04:32] <EdePopede> in the form they reside on the server. you get text files '<php ....'
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• 1964[18:05:10] <SerajewelKS> make sure that the module is enabled, make sure that there is an apache handler set for PHP files
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• 1967[18:05:22] <karlpinc> Akuw_: Also look at the apache logs. Logs are always the place to start when you want to know what a daemon is doing.
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• 1971[18:06:59] * karlpinc is of the opinion that php-fpm is the way to go, especially with apache But it always seems to take me longer to make it work.
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• 1973[18:08:07] <karlpinc> Akuw_: (IMO, if you're just starting out doing this, I'd start with nginx instead of apache. Your choice though.)
• 1974[18:08:16] <jmcnaught> php-fpm is pretty easy to get going in stretch, you basically just install the php7.0-fpm package, 'a2enmod proxy_fcgi ; a2enconf php7.0-fpm'
• 1975[18:09:15] <Akuw_> no errors
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• 1982[18:14:06] <jmcnaught> Akuw_: do you have the package libapache2-mod-php7.0 installed? What does "a2query -m php7.0" say?
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• 1985[18:17:35] <Kobaz> having a problem installing grub... all the usual troubleshooting has been failing
• 1986[18:17:38] <Kobaz> info: /dev/sda2 is not present.
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• 1990[18:18:37] <Kobaz> fdisk -l /dev/sda | grep sda2... /dev/sda2 = 31252480 488397167 457144688 218G 83 Linux
• 1991[18:18:50] <Kobaz> er, put the = in the wrong spot, but yeah it's there
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• 1993[18:19:12] <Kobaz> aaand /dev/sda2: block special (8/2)
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• 1995[18:19:50] <Kobaz> grub-probe is saying annot find a GRUB drive for /dev/sda2. Check your device.map.... but device.map is populated and is correct
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• 1998[18:21:59] <jhutchins_wk> Kobaz: One usually installs to the device, not the partition, ie /dev/sda, not /dev/sda2
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• 2010[18:26:46] <Kobaz> i know
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• 2012[18:26:58] <Kobaz> grub-install /dev/sda is reporting sda2 not found (sda2 = /)
• 2013[18:27:05] <Kobaz> i think i figured it out
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• 2015[18:27:10] <Kobaz> there was an old md signature on this partition
• 2016[18:27:20] <Kobaz> need --zero-superblock
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• 2060[18:57:33] <Kobaz> worked!
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• 2062[18:58:06] <jhutchins_wk> +1
• 2063[18:58:32] <Kobaz> those pesky raid signatures
• 2064[18:58:49] <Kobaz> i should get in the habit of dd zeroing the boot sector prior to any reinstalls
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• 2084[19:12:31] <jhutchins_wk> I occasionally see mention of a "needs reboot" package/feature/command. Where can I find more info on this? What package is this feature a part of?
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• 2087[19:13:19] <greycat> ,info needrestart
• 2088[19:13:21] <judd> Package needrestart (admin, optional) in stretch/amd64: check which daemons need to be restarted after library upgrades. Version: 2.11-3+deb9u1; Size: 45.8k; Installed: 227k; Homepage: replaced-url
• 2089[19:13:21] <ksk> jhutchins_wk: take a look at the debian-goodies package
• 2090[19:13:24] <greycat> That?
• 2091[19:13:25] <ksk> that one.
• 2092[19:14:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1562
• 2093[19:15:42] <jhutchins_wk> Yeah, thanks.
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• 2096[19:16:26] <annadane> ksk, though AFAIK needrestart is supposed to be a better checkrestart
• 2097[19:17:43] <annadane> hmm that github doesn't exist
• 2098[19:17:43] <jhutchins_wk> ,info checkrestart
• 2099[19:17:44] <judd> No package named 'checkrestart' was found in stretch/amd64.
• 2100[19:17:51] <annadane> checkrestart is part of debian-goodies
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• 2102[19:18:33] <jhutchins_wk> Got it.
• 2103[19:18:54] <jhutchins_wk> Mainly looking for "I wasn't paying attention, did I get a new kernel?".
• 2104[19:19:34] <annadane> i don't know if needrestart is recursive, though. like if you installed a kernel and are only now installing a package to check, i don't know if that would work
• 2105[19:19:39] <annadane> ditto for checkrestart
• 2106[19:19:58] <annadane> but uh... check your apt logs...?
• 2107[19:21:11] <ksk> the one from debian goodies looks for libs which are in use, but are replaced on filesystem - so its okay to check/install after upgrade
• 2108[19:21:44] <annadane> people being told "you don't have to reboot in linux!" is a dangerous trend
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• 2110[19:22:20] <Kobaz> annadane: i tell people 'it depends'
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• 2114[19:22:47] <greycat> you have to reboot any time you replace the kernel, and *rarely* outside of that
• 2115[19:23:18] <annadane> right, i just include service restarts or whatever in this
• 2116[19:23:19] <Kobaz> well sure, but some people dont get the whole startup process and how that works and they think installing a new service needs a reboot
• 2117[19:23:30] <annadane> some windows users may be under the impression they never have to do anything
• 2118[19:23:37] <Kobaz> you *can* reboot and it'll do it, if you're cluless that's probably the best way
• 2119[19:24:18] <Kobaz> but upgrading from 2.6 would ruin my 10 year uptime :(
• 2120[19:24:22] <annadane> and it's like, no, if apache gets a security update you best restart apache
• 2121[19:24:24] <greycat> rebooting while you're present and able to verify that everything worked is also a better idea than not-rebooting when you're unsure about a recent upgrade, and then being caught by surprise later
• 2122[19:24:42] <jcb2016> Kobaz, you have a 10 year uptime?
• 2123[19:24:54] <Kobaz> haha no, but, i imagine people do
• 2124[19:24:58] <Kobaz> i tried...
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• 2126[19:25:37] <annadane> this is also why running debian stable with all its cruft can be nice, as opposed to the ritual of checking what's running outdated binaries in more rolling distributions
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• 2129[19:26:57] <ikus060> I have a MTU issue in my network that involve IPSEC VPN and also PPTP VPN ;) Traffic usually flow from the PPTP vpn up to IPSEC VPN seemlessly. But recent change the the MTU on the IPSEC have impact the traffic. I guess both MTU was 1400, but now the MTU of the IPSEC is 1396.
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• 2144[19:35:05] <jhutchins_wk> I thought the apt* process restarted running tasks if they were updated.
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• 2148[19:35:31] <annadane> nope
• 2149[19:35:36] <greycat> the issue is if daemon X depends on library Y and library Y is upgraded
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• 2152[19:35:55] <annadane> oh, wait, no, that's right isn't it
• 2153[19:36:23] <jhutchins_wk> Windows users/admins get in the habit of reboots being the universal cure.
• 2154[19:36:34] <greycat> it's not the worst answer
• 2155[19:37:20] <annadane> i'm not actually certain if in a vacuum apt will auto restart programs
• 2156[19:37:26] <annadane> that may be correct
• 2157[19:37:28] <jhutchins_wk> The law office I used to support is so ingrained that even after more than 15 years with Linux servers, they'll reboot the server even before they call me (it's almost never the server).
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• 2161[19:42:31] <dkmueller> Hi everyone. I installed Debian with Gnome DE but switched to i3 a while ago. Is there a clean way to get rid of gnome completely? I'm a bit afraid of accidently purging stuff I might need. Keeping gdm would be nice but removing it wouldn't be a dealbreaker for me.
• 2162[19:43:10] *** Quits: LaunchDirector (~pi@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
• 2163[19:43:10] <jhutchins_wk> !uninstall gnome
• 2164[19:43:11] <dpkg> To remove or purge GNOME 2.x: aptitude remove ~nlibgnome ~nlibbonobo2 ~nliborbit2 ~nlibgnomeui ~nlibgnomevfs2. Use 'purge' instead of 'remove' if that's what you want (ask me about <purge>).
• 2165[19:43:23] <annadane> gnome 2?!
• 2166[19:43:25] <greycat> that's a rather old factoid, yes
• 2167[19:43:37] <greycat> I don't know if anyone ever worked out a method to do it with gnome 3
• 2168[19:44:34] <dkmueller> Maybe a fresh install would be easier than fixing everything after the purge :/
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• 2170[19:44:48] <ksk> a method to remove gnome3? sounds like a nice desktop :D
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• 2174[19:45:12] <greycat> or you can just let it sit on your hard drive... it costs you nothing but some space
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• 2176[19:45:47] <greycat> or, you could remove all the libgnome* type stuff you can find, and then if anything else breaks, you can reinstall that
• 2177[19:46:25] <dkmueller> greycat: yeah maybe. Then I just have to stop gnome-session from starting. But I guess commenting out sections in some file at /etc/X11 could do that
• 2178[19:46:39] <Tenkawa> too bad theres not a tasksel object for it
• 2179[19:46:41] <rwp> I would think removing/purging task-gnome-desktop and then running apt-get autoremove and that should get most of it.
• 2180[19:46:56] <greycat> why are you starting gnome-session if that isn't what you want?
• 2181[19:47:06] <dkmueller> I guess gdm does it
• 2182[19:47:14] <dkmueller> per default
• 2183[19:47:27] <greycat> as I understand it, gdm3 has a thing that lets you select whether to run a Debian session or a GNOME session
• 2184[19:47:48] <greycat> although one wonders whether you actually want to keep gdm3 in the first place
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• 2187[19:49:13] <dkmueller> maybe I should just prepare a memstick with netinstall in case of emergency and go for it :D
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• 2189[19:49:21] <rwp> For a counter example task-xfce-desktop installs lightdm. That's the usual non-gdm xdm installed.
• 2190[19:49:34] <karlpinc> dkmueller: You can use "aptitude why" to figure out if you want to keep or purge a package. (For myself, it's simpler to just not use gnome and leave it on the disk.)
• 2191[19:49:43] <greycat> xdm is the original ;-)
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• 2193[19:49:58] <karlpinc> I'm kinda fond of slim.
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• 2195[19:51:00] <jhutchins_wk> There are some gnome components that have crept into the system-level dependencies.
• 2196[19:51:21] <rwp> jhutchins_wk, (regarding scrollback) You should look at 'needrestart'. I always comment out /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/99needrestart and run it as "needrestart -b". Very useful.
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• 2201[19:52:41] <Tenkawa> karlpinc: any gotchas to watch for with with slim? i might have to try that out.. I'm using sddm atm
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• 2206[19:53:36] <Tenkawa> lightdm was ok... but meh
• 2207[19:54:06] <Tenkawa> I want something stable and light on resources
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• 2209[19:54:15] <greycat> startx
• 2210[19:54:21] <Tenkawa> haahaa
• 2211[19:54:30] <greycat> you're laughing because...?
• 2212[19:54:32] <Tenkawa> indeed
• 2213[19:54:41] <greycat> wooledg:~$ ps -ef | grep startx
• 2214[19:54:41] <greycat> wooledg 778 688 0 Apr30 tty1 00:00:00 /bin/sh /usr/bin/startx
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• 2216[19:55:16] <annadane> startx doesn't actually work out of the box with xfce AFAIK, annoyingly
• 2217[19:55:24] <annadane> the debian wiki has instructions
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• 2219[19:55:53] <Tenkawa> greycat: I laugh because I use to have multi card machines where you had to know which :* to give it
• 2220[19:56:11] <greycat> you have to know the Name of the Thing to put in your .xsession file, which in the case of a regular WM is really obvious, and in the case of a DE is usually not well advertised
• 2221[19:56:17] <Tenkawa> and hope you plugged up the right monitor
• 2222[19:56:43] <annadane> replaced-url
• 2223[19:57:12] <rwp> I will laugh because I always use 'xinit' directly with my own .xinitrc file. No need for the 'startx' wrapper. :-)
• 2224[19:57:20] <greycat> so in annadane's case the Name of the Thing is ck-launch-session startxfce4
• 2225[19:57:54] <annadane> "Then you need to fine-tune your pam installation so ?ConsoleKit can be sure that your user is correctly authenticated. For that, you need to install libpam-ck-connector and put before pam_ck_connector.so in /etc/pam.d/common-session."
• 2226[19:58:17] <annadane> but anyway
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• 2228[19:58:28] <greycat> ... I will continue not using a DE.
• 2229[19:58:40] <annadane> fvwm for the greycat?
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• 2231[19:58:47] <Tenkawa> twn
• 2232[19:58:50] <Tenkawa> er twm
• 2233[19:58:52] <greycat> yeah, I've not seen any reason to change it
• 2234[19:58:53] <Tenkawa> haahaa
• 2235[19:59:07] <greycat> (no, not twm)
• 2236[19:59:27] <annadane> twm is what, freebsd's default desktop or something
• 2237[19:59:30] <annadane> openbsd has cwm
• 2238[19:59:31] <Tenkawa> that thing was bad
• 2239[19:59:42] <annadane> oh i agree, twm is terrible
• 2240[19:59:56] <greycat> twm is the original window manager that shipped with X from MIT
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• 2242[20:00:03] <dkmueller> annadane: default is fvwm, but everyone seems to install cwm right away
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• 2244[20:00:10] <rwp> twm is usually what I use inside of VNC sessions. Because it is small and different from my regular window manager.
• 2245[20:00:15] <annadane> oh is it really, i thought i got booted into twm
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• 2248[20:00:23] <annadane> oh sorry you mean openbsd
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• 2250[20:00:33] <greycat> if you're on a commercial Unix workstation from the 1990s, chances are it has twm and then some kind of weird commercial proto-DE thing
• 2251[20:00:33] <Tenkawa> when I used at&t/ncr svr4 i think I was using twm
• 2252[20:00:40] <Tenkawa> it scared me
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• 2256[20:01:05] <Tenkawa> yeah that was 96
• 2257[20:01:06] <annadane> i've just never learned how to customize fvwm
• 2258[20:01:07] <dkmueller> cwm is pretty neat and easy btw
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• 2260[20:02:37] <dkmueller> first wm I could get myself familiar with
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• 2262[20:03:35] <jhutchins_wk> I really liked KDE and was hopeful it would get it's integration act together. Then they released KDE4.
• 2263[20:04:20] <annadane> KDE 5 is quite nice but obviously debian stable users are left in the dust
• 2264[20:04:48] <annadane> even xfce in stretch is a bit buggy AFAICT
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• 2280[20:11:15] <jhutchins_wk> The only problem I have is shared printing with an older Brother laser.
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• 2290[20:15:02] <annadane> if you want an ultra smooth desktop experience probably debian stable is not your go-to... on top of all the good things it does do
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• 2296[20:19:47] <annadane> well okay if you want an ultra smooth desktop environment experience i guess, window manager users are probably perfectly happy
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• 2299[20:20:27] <humpled> it's a joy
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• 2329[20:34:41] <galaxie> Hi, I'm trying to remove Wine from my Debian Stretch machine. I ran apt remove wine-stable and it lists wine as a new package that would be installed? I'm using the provided Debian repo (replaced-url
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• 2332[20:35:04] <greycat> try "aptitude why wine-stable" and/or "aptitude why wine"
• 2333[20:35:27] <greycat> most likely you've got something installed that depends on wine, or wine-stable, or some combo
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• 2341[20:38:58] <galaxie> OK, I think it's telling me I got winetricks installed and it depends on wine and winehq-stable which is provided by wine-stable provides it? So uninstall winetricks first?
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• 2344[20:41:38] <galaxie> I'm curious now, for more complex things, is there some sort of graphical dependency graph output or whatnot?
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• 2349[20:43:51] <dvs> doesn't apt automatically remove depdencies?
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• 2352[20:44:55] <greycat> if X depends on "Y or Z" and you remove Y, it'll install Z
• 2353[20:45:33] <dvs> tricky
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• 2363[20:48:46] <queso> Package management in stretch: what is apt? is continuing to use aptitude okay? I assume so, just wanting to check.
• 2364[20:49:09] <greycat> aptitude, apt-get, apt, synaptic, dselect are all available, and you can use whatever you like
• 2365[20:49:13] <annadane> replaced-url
• 2366[20:49:22] <annadane> (yes, using aptitude is fine)
• 2367[20:49:25] <dvs> queso, it's your choice. They just behave differently when it comes to conflicts.
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• 2370[20:49:41] <greycat> what in the hell happened to that anchor
• 2371[20:50:15] <queso> Okay, thanks all.
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• 2374[20:50:34] <annadane> i've never ever used apt-get even though that seems to be what a lot of people use
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• 2376[20:50:37] <annadane> apt is shorter to type :P
• 2377[20:50:58] <dvs> apt-get is used in the release notes
• 2378[20:51:02] <greycat> apt-get predates apt by many years
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• 2380[20:51:22] <annadane> yeah i'll use it when i upgrade to buster
• 2381[20:51:36] <Tenkawa> who mentioned slim earlier?
• 2382[20:52:16] <queso> I'm surprised aptitude resolves dependencies differently.
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• 2384[20:52:24] <queso> I mean, handles conflicts differently.
• 2385[20:52:39] <OerHeks> apt has advantages over apt-get
• 2386[20:52:46] <queso> OerHeks: Such as?
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• 2390[20:54:16] <annadane> saving valuable typing energy!
• 2391[20:54:19] * annadane goes away
• 2392[20:54:19] <OerHeks> extended answer, replaced-url
• 2393[20:54:21] <dax> it looks prettier
• 2394[20:54:30] <greycat> not on a white terminal, it doesn't
• 2395[20:54:44] <dax> yeah but people with white terminals are weird so :(
• 2396[20:54:47] <annadane> IIRC you shouldn't use... apt-get in scripts? or do i have that backwards
• 2397[20:54:58] <Tenkawa> I do have to say I like slim as a login manager so far
• 2398[20:55:03] <greycat> apt-get is the one recommended in scripts because its interface doesn't change on a whim like apt
• 2399[20:55:15] <annadane> ah right
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• 2403[20:56:45] <queso> That Debian Reference link is most useful.
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• 2405[20:57:41] <greycat> but seriously, *what* is up with the dozen instances of _literal
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• 2407[20:58:26] <greycat> clearly auto-generated from some other format where command names like apt-get were surrounded in some kind of markup that ... did not survive in the HTML rendition
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• 2409[21:00:30] <annadane> can i with bash use firefox to open something if it's saved to a location and not installed via package manager, like /path/to/firefox image.jpg
• 2410[21:00:31] *** Quits: Uberius (~Uberius@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 2411[21:00:49] <greycat> file:///your/path/file
• 2412[21:01:41] <annadane> ah neat
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• 2421[21:04:15] <rwp> And actually Firefox will add the leading "file://" part to a path itself so that users don't need to understand file:// URL syntax. Example: firefox ./image.jpg
• 2422[21:04:23] <zumba_addict> hi all. When we run apt-get, where does it download the package from?
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• 2424[21:04:38] <annadane> spaaace.
• 2425[21:04:42] <zumba_addict> And also, which configuration file locally is configured?
• 2426[21:04:43] <rwp> zumba_addict, From sources listed in /etc/apt/sources.list and also /etc/apt/sources.list.d/* files.
• 2427[21:04:45] <zumba_addict> ah
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• 2429[21:04:54] <rwp> !sources
• 2430[21:04:54] <dpkg> A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Stretch" has three lines: "deb replaced-url
• 2431[21:04:59] <zumba_addict> thank you
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• 2436[21:05:50] <annadane> hmm it doesn't work for me, bash won't autocomplete the filename
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• 2438[21:06:00] <annadane> well it may work, it just doesn't autocomplete
• 2439[21:06:24] <annadane> yeah it does open it at least
• 2440[21:06:33] <milkt> zumba_addict: also check apt-config
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• 2443[21:07:32] <zumba_addict> What about how the registry was designed or architected, do you know where I can find that info? It's because I'd like to make an update to our Artifactory server to make it more organized. Our Artifactory is our storage for deb, rpm, tar and few more types.
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• 2447[21:08:10] <greycat> the... what
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• 2449[21:08:17] <milkt> what is registry
• 2450[21:08:25] <greycat> Do you mean the package repository?
• 2451[21:08:27] <zumba_addict> yes
• 2452[21:08:36] *** Joins: Texou (~Texou@replaced-ip)
• 2453[21:09:23] <zumba_addict> i meant the apt repository
• 2454[21:09:33] <milkt> replaced-url
• 2455[21:09:39] <greycat> the only reference I know of to give you is the "debmirror" package which you can use to create a partial local mirror
• 2456[21:09:44] <zumba_addict> I'd like to learn more about them. I was thinking I may be able to ideas how it was setup
• 2457[21:09:46] <zumba_addict> oh cool
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• 2459[21:10:13] <greycat> ok, the bottom of that wiki page looks promising as well
• 2460[21:10:13] <zumba_addict> apt-get install debmirror?
• 2461[21:10:22] <zumba_addict> i'll check the wiki now
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• 2463[21:11:04] *** Quits: RebelCoderRU (~RebelCode@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
• 2464[21:11:05] <greycat> debmirror is one of many things listed on the first link from that section (replaced-url
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• 2466[21:11:21] <zumba_addict> nice!
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• 2473[21:12:48] <zumba_addict> i'm wondering how apt-get knows and apt registry which file to serve back to the client if machines are coming from different architecture types like amd64 x86_64, etc
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• 2475[21:13:14] <greycat> there is no "registry". that is a term used in Microsoft Windows.
• 2476[21:13:33] <greycat> apt reads your list of preferred repositories from sources.list and sources.list.d/*
• 2477[21:13:40] <zumba_addict> i keep on using that term but i really meant repository. Sorry
• 2478[21:14:02] <greycat> I can't even GUESS what you mean by "serve files back to the client".
• 2479[21:14:30] <zumba_addict> I opened sources.list but it doesn't mention the machine type
• 2480[21:14:35] <zumba_addict> yeah, it should be download :)
• 2481[21:14:41] <somiaj> look at the output of apt policy packagename it know which version apt will pick
• 2482[21:14:48] <zumba_addict> got it
• 2483[21:15:00] <somiaj> the arch is set by dpkg, and apt uses dpkgs settings.
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• 2485[21:15:49] <zumba_addict> ah
• 2486[21:15:57] <greycat> The repository is not an intelligent agent. It's just a file server (web site, FTP server).
• 2487[21:16:07] <zumba_addict> so that means, the repository doesn't really know anything about it
• 2488[21:16:08] <greycat> The client (apt) is the one that knows which architecture to download files for.
• 2489[21:16:17] <zumba_addict> gotcha
• 2490[21:16:34] <zumba_addict> so the pathing is done by client
• 2491[21:16:36] <greycat> wooledg:~$ apt-get --reinstall --print-uris install bash
• 2492[21:16:40] <greycat> 'replaced-url
• 2493[21:16:49] <greycat> (other lines of output omitted)
• 2494[21:16:55] <zumba_addict> nice
• 2495[21:17:37] <zumba_addict> now i need to figure out how to layout our repository for rpm, deb, tar files
• 2496[21:17:43] <somiaj> You can manually tell apt to only uses particula arches for certain repos, but this is usually not needed. Apt will use the settings of your system (from dpkg) and figure out the correct packages to download.
• 2497[21:18:01] <somiaj> If there are multiple packages, it is done via a combination of version numbers and pinning. See apt policy packagename in that case
• 2498[21:18:17] <zumba_addict> We were given this link - replaced-url
• 2499[21:18:30] <zumba_addict> got it
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• 2503[21:20:44] <zumba_addict> There was a question yesterday that if we should create separate repository for each file type
• 2504[21:20:51] <zumba_addict> as well as arch
• 2505[21:21:23] <zumba_addict> For example, should there be a repository for debian arch. What about another repository for amazon linux arch
• 2506[21:21:37] *** Quits: GaneshRaju (~ganeshraj@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
• 2507[21:21:50] <zumba_addict> Or should we create one big repository that will handle all of them, then client just prepares the url
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• 2509[21:22:10] <greycat> I can't imagine "one big repository that handles 700 different operating systems" is viable.
• 2510[21:22:55] <zumba_addict> there was one which is rpmfind.net but it's a distro separation
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• 2514[21:23:38] <zumba_addict> so I guess, create a repository for each operating system is the ideal way to go. Correct?
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• 2516[21:24:12] <greycat> at this point it might be helpful if you told us what you are trying to do
• 2517[21:24:13] *** Quits: skza (~skza@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
• 2518[21:25:14] <zumba_addict> setting up a server/repositories for different package types
• 2519[21:25:58] <zumba_addict> I asked about apt because I was thinking I might get information that will help me in redesigning/reachitecting our artifactory
• 2520[21:26:08] <zumba_addict> apt repository
• 2521[21:26:11] <greycat> *why*
• 2522[21:26:30] <greycat> what is an "artifactory"?
• 2523[21:26:40] *** Joins: skza (~skza@replaced-ip)
• 2524[21:27:00] <zumba_addict> It's like a file server or web server but it has ui that helps in managing it
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• 2527[21:27:21] <greycat> what does it *do*
• 2528[21:27:42] *** Joins: tf2ftw (~tf2ftw@replaced-ip)
• 2529[21:27:42] <zumba_addict> we use it as storage for rpm packages, deb packages as well as tar
• 2530[21:28:08] *** Quits: Alina-malina (~Alina-mal@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
• 2531[21:28:17] <zumba_addict> we can use tools like yum or npm on the client to install packages and it gets pulled from artifactory
• 2532[21:28:34] <zumba_addict> we noticed slowness though
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• 2534[21:28:41] *** Joins: Alina-malina (~Alina-mal@replaced-ip)
• 2535[21:28:53] <greycat> in support of *what*? what are you doing? why do you have three or more different flavors of "package files"? why are you caching them all locally?
• 2536[21:28:54] <zumba_addict> we think that it's the way the structure was laid out
• 2537[21:29:36] <zumba_addict> here at work, we support different teams. Some teams use debian and others use amazon linux. Some are on ubuntu
• 2538[21:29:51] <greycat> to answer the question about speed: do you have thousands of files in a single directory?
• 2539[21:30:09] <zumba_addict> that's a very good question. I guess it's possible that we have those
• 2540[21:30:28] <zumba_addict> can that slow it down?
• 2541[21:30:32] <greycat> typical unix file systems have terrible performance when you have thousands of files in a single directory
• 2542[21:30:43] <zumba_addict> got it
• 2543[21:30:53] <zumba_addict> i wasn't aware about that
• 2544[21:31:15] <zumba_addict> how do I conduct a test on that?
• 2545[21:31:16] *** Quits: hbautista (~hbautista@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 2546[21:31:34] <greycat> some of the crazy bleeding-edge file systems may try to mitigate that, but it's typically better just to arrange things in a more balanced form, like breaking the big directory up into a hundred smaller directories using some kind of meaningful indexing
• 2547[21:31:45] <greycat> like with my previous example: replaced-url
• 2548[21:31:57] <greycat> see how there's a /b/ directory and then /bash/ under that
• 2549[21:32:36] <zumba_addict> Jfrog told my manager that the nested directory we have is hurting the performance. They said to put all the files in one directory. I was like "what!"
• 2550[21:33:00] *** Quits: Cabanossi (~Cabanossi@replaced-ip) (Quit: Bye, bye...)
• 2551[21:33:01] <zumba_addict> so everything will be in the root level
• 2552[21:33:07] <milkt> oh my
• 2553[21:33:13] <greycat> on what kind of file system?
• 2554[21:33:21] <zumba_addict> that's what I need to check next
• 2555[21:33:28] <zumba_addict> i am not sure what fs we are using
• 2556[21:33:34] <zumba_addict> i hope it's not nfs, lol
• 2557[21:33:37] <greycat> log in, type mount, read.
• 2558[21:33:51] <zumba_addict> yup
• 2559[21:34:16] *** Joins: grobi (~rtng@replaced-ip)
• 2560[21:34:28] <zumba_addict> ssh now
• 2561[21:34:37] *** Quits: shibboleth (~shibbolet@replaced-ip) (Quit: shibboleth)
• 2562[21:36:48] <zumba_addict> fstab says it's ext4
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• 2564[21:37:00] *** Joins: JordiGH (jordi@replaced-ip)
• 2565[21:37:12] <JordiGH> Are we supposed to install non-free Intel blobs to handle this MDS thing?
• 2566[21:37:15] <greycat> that's traditional enough that you don't want a million packages in one directory
• 2567[21:37:48] <zumba_addict> ext4 should be good right?
• 2568[21:37:49] <greycat> !mds
• 2569[21:38:16] <greycat> zumba_addict: that's traditional enough that you don't want a million packages in one directory
• 2570[21:38:33] <greycat> JordiGH: pretend for a moment that we have no idea what you are talking about.
• 2571[21:38:58] <zumba_addict> so we're good then if one directory has 1 or 2k
• 2572[21:39:13] *** Quits: flokuehn (~flokuehn@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
• 2573[21:39:14] <JordiGH> greycat: Oh, some CVE, I thought it was a big deal that everyone knew about by now: replaced-url
• 2574[21:39:17] <dax> replaced-url
• 2575[21:39:51] <greycat> so "MDS" is somehow related to the latest round of kernel/microcode patches against spectre and friends?
• 2576[21:40:01] <JordiGH> Yeah, blegh, we need to install some friggin blob.
• 2577[21:40:02] <dax> if you want microcode updates, you need to get them from somewhere. your options for that are a motherboard update to do it before the OS starts, or the OS. in debian, that would mean non-free
• 2578[21:40:04] <zumba_addict> what are some newer/faster/better file systems this days?
• 2579[21:40:23] <JordiGH> What kind of fucking security is this, I'm so angry with Intel.
• 2580[21:40:49] *** Joins: Xatenev (~Xatenev@replaced-ip)
• 2581[21:40:50] <greycat> Humans just suck at making computers.
• 2582[21:40:51] <Xatenev> hi
• 2583[21:41:03] <JordiGH> Do they have to make them non-freely?
• 2584[21:41:12] <greycat> Have you met humans?
• 2585[21:41:29] *** Quits: ScottE (~ScottE@replaced-ip##) (Quit: ZNC - ##replaced-url
• 2586[21:41:35] <JordiGH> Like, wtf, Intel, oh we broke it, here, have some friggin legally-restricted jumble of secrets to fix it.
• 2587[21:42:04] <dax> to be fair, they're not any more legally restricted than what was burned into the CPU at the factory
• 2588[21:42:29] *** Quits: wonderer (~quakeroat@replaced-ip) (Quit: Famous quotes #73: "After I'm dead I'd rather have people ask why I have no monument than why I have one." - Cato the Elder (234-149 BC, AKA Marcus Porcius Cato))
• 2589[21:42:44] *** Joins: tertl3 (~tertl34@replaced-ip)
• 2590[21:42:45] <dax> but anyway, as far as stuff on-topic for a debian support channel goes: yes, they're non-free, yay hardware manufacturers
• 2591[21:42:56] <JordiGH> Hardware is not easily inspectable and modifiable like software is.
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• 2594[21:43:17] <JordiGH> Nor infinitely copyable.
• 2595[21:43:47] <annadane> as far as i know AMD has not fucked up anywhere near as much as intel has
• 2596[21:44:14] <annadane> i'd definitely support them in future, for both CPU and GPU
• 2597[21:44:18] <JordiGH> Debian's position towards firmware blobs is not a sympathetic one. Debian doesn't think that firmware blobs are okay because we can't open up our hardware chips and see what's in them.
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• 2602[21:45:15] <greycat> dpkg, mds is <reply>Microarchitectural Data Sampling (MDS) (aka MDSUM). Yet another hardware exploit in recent Intel CPUs. See <replaced-url
• 2603[21:45:16] <dpkg> greycat: okay
• 2604[21:45:37] *** Quits: tertl3 (~tertl34@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 2605[21:45:47] * greycat watches security-tracker.debian.org fail repeatedly
• 2606[21:45:48] *** Joins: tertl3 (~tertl34@replaced-ip)
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• 2608[21:47:13] <milkt> greycat, same for me, 502 bad gateway
• 2609[21:47:14] <mason> JordiGH: Is the latest issue only resolvable via another proprietary, binary blob? I thought they'd stopped doing that.
• 2610[21:47:25] *** Joins: eddof13 (~eddof13@replaced-ip)
• 2611[21:47:32] <JordiGH> mason: No, looks like they love doing this.
• 2612[21:48:18] <annadane> JordiGH, anyway yes, intel-microcode got an update for it
• 2613[21:49:27] <annadane> 2021: "new intel security fix involves a 97% drop in performance"
• 2614[21:49:30] *** Joins: amphiprions (~amphiprio@replaced-ip)
• 2615[21:49:44] <mason> Slowly regressing to clay tablets.
• 2616[21:49:53] <annadane> this one also involves a performance drop, on top of the earlier spectre fixes
• 2617[21:49:59] <annadane> we're up to what, 35-40% now or something
• 2618[21:50:00] <JordiGH> Doesn't the attack require that I run code I don't trust in the first place?
• 2619[21:50:07] <JordiGH> Like, isn't it a local-only exploit?
• 2620[21:50:09] <SerajewelKS> is there a recommended solution for running something that depends on PHP <7 or PHP >=7.1 on stretch?
• 2621[21:50:12] <greycat> replaced-url
• 2622[21:50:17] <SerajewelKS> 7.0 (the version in stretch) is specifically unsupported
• 2623[21:50:52] <greycat> It's unsupported *upstream*.
• 2624[21:51:04] <greycat> It's still supported by the Debian security team.
• 2625[21:51:13] <SerajewelKS> no i'm not talking about PHP
• 2626[21:51:20] *** Quits: cryptodan (~cryptodan@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 2627[21:51:21] <SerajewelKS> the software i'm deploying on PHP does not support 7.0
• 2628[21:51:29] <SerajewelKS> it supports 5.x or 7.1+ but not 7.0
• 2629[21:51:44] <greycat> !pal PHP
• 2630[21:51:44] * dpkg points at PHP and laughs uproariously
• 2631[21:52:05] <SerajewelKS> 7.0 removed async signal processing, 7.1 added it back *eyeroll*
• 2632[21:52:22] <greycat> use jessie's 5.x then
• 2633[21:52:32] <annadane> /usr/local/bin/fuckphpwitharustyfork
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• 2636[21:52:51] <SerajewelKS> oh yes i'm well aware of how bad PHP is :)
• 2637[21:52:54] <dax> use oldstable until buster comes out, then upgrade to buster?
• 2638[21:52:56] <SerajewelKS> greycat: i'll give that a shot, thanks
• 2639[21:53:30] *** Quits: tertl3 (~tertl34@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2640[21:53:38] <dax> (i mean, i'd probably just use buster now, but i'm a lunatic so don't listen to me)
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• 2643[21:54:05] <greycat> if you upgrade a jessie box with php to stretch, it continues using jessie's php 5.x (under apache) until you explicitly change that, so it should also be possible to do things in the reverse order and install jessie's php 5.x packages and get them to work under a stretch apache. in theory.
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• 2645[21:54:35] <greycat> dax: he's using PHP. He's already infected with lunacy. Not much left to lose.
• 2646[21:55:04] <SerajewelKS> my sanity was lost well before PHP, anyway
• 2647[21:55:36] <jhutchins_wk> I used to think PHP just enabled people to write bad code, then I read a rather thorough article that explaned how PHP FORCES people to write bad code.
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• 2652[21:59:05] <SerajewelKS> yes it's a really awful language to work with
• 2653[21:59:15] <SerajewelKS> thankfully my role around PHP has been less developer and more sysadmin lately
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• 2658[21:59:56] <SerajewelKS> i used to love PHP and hate javascript. in the past 10 years my opinion has reversed.
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• 2660[22:00:16] <SerajewelKS> javascript has dumb stuff in it but you can largely ignore it
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• 2662[22:01:38] <SerajewelKS> and what's left is really good for async programming
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• 2671[22:07:25] <Xatenev> I've installed debian in a Vbox and installed guest additions, thjen restarted my VM
• 2672[22:07:33] <Xatenev> now the guest (debian) freezes after i logged in.
• 2673[22:07:34] <Xatenev> any ideas? :O
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• 2675[22:07:41] <setuid> I need to add a delay after the kernel is unpacked but before any disks are enumerated, and hitting a wall figuring out where to stick the 'ExecStartPre=/bin/sleep 30' call. I've tried a few places (udev, fsck, etc.) without much luck.
• 2676[22:07:50] <Xatenev> i got this weird mouse herer and thats it replaced-url
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• 2681[22:09:36] <jhutchins_wk> Xatenev: A mouse shouldn't affect anything on the system. Even X should start without a mouse present.
• 2682[22:10:03] <Xatenev> jhutchins_wk: yea
• 2683[22:10:10] <Xatenev> thats just how my screen looks.
• 2684[22:10:13] <jhutchins_wk> Xatenev: Two things to consider: The last boot message displayed is the one BEFORE the failure. The same is often true of logs.
• 2685[22:10:31] <Xatenev> i dont know what that means
• 2686[22:11:08] <setuid> I need to hook into the place right after kernel but before lvm is reassembled
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• 2688[22:12:14] <jhutchins_wk> Xatenev: What happens if you boot to multi-user.target?
• 2689[22:12:33] <Xatenev> how can i do that?
• 2690[22:12:41] <greycat> he said it freezes after login, not after boot
• 2691[22:12:51] <Xatenev> ya it happens when i start my x server
• 2692[22:12:52] <Xatenev> via startx
• 2693[22:13:01] *** Quits: Mr_Gr33n (~None@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
• 2694[22:13:01] <greycat> so it seems like his display manager is fine (if he uses one of those and not startx) but the actual X session freaks out
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• 2696[22:13:10] <Xatenev> I use startx
• 2697[22:13:12] <greycat> oh, he uses startx.
• 2698[22:13:37] <Xatenev> maybe the guest additions require something from my x server that i have not installed?
• 2699[22:13:52] <Xatenev> i got a very bare bones setup
• 2700[22:13:59] <Xatenev> so a lot of things are not installed I guess
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• 2709[22:17:51] <jhutchins_wk> The tools install should include the video driver. Does it go full-screen?
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• 2711[22:18:07] <Xatenev> i have fixed the freeze problem by doing what is described here replaced-url
• 2712[22:18:16] <Xatenev> installing virtualbox-guest-dkms -x11 and the linux headers
• 2713[22:18:19] <Xatenev> but its not fullscreen :/
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• 2720[22:21:24] <Xatenev> annoying
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• 2725[22:23:36] <ksk> Xatenev: how do you install the guest additions? iirc there is some "install.bin" or so on the cd that you need to execute - it will tell you if you are missing stuff (like gcc for example)
• 2726[22:24:08] <Xatenev> ksk: i did virtualbox => insert guest additions
• 2727[22:24:14] <Xatenev> ksk: mounted it and run the virtualbox guest additions for linux
• 2728[22:24:20] <Xatenev> and then i tried thee solution from the link above
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• 2730[22:24:28] <Xatenev> the first made my pc freeze, the 2nd fixed the freeze but no fullscreen
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• 2742[22:31:47] <jhutchins_wk> Xatenev: You will only get full screen after X starts.
• 2743[22:31:54] <Xatenev> yea i dont have that
• 2744[22:32:05] <Xatenev> i do startx but it doesnt fullscreen
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• 2748[22:32:43] <jhutchins_wk> Xatenev: That suggests it's not using the VB driver.
• 2749[22:32:47] <Xatenev> wat can i do
• 2750[22:32:50] <Xatenev> lol
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• 2752[22:34:09] <jhutchins_wk> Re-run the installer?
• 2753[22:34:39] <Xatenev> will do
• 2754[22:34:50] <jhutchins_wk> Just guessing here. What's the host running?
• 2755[22:34:53] <Xatenev> win10
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• 2757[22:36:20] <jhutchins_wk> mount /media/cdrom/ && sh /media/cdrom/VBoxLinuxAdditions.run
• 2758[22:36:58] <jhutchins_wk> Xatenev: This is a Deb9 xfce on W10.
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• 2761[22:40:00] <jhutchins_wk> Xatenev: So we know D9 works. Are you on 9?
• 2762[22:40:45] <Xatenev> VirtualBox Guest Additions: Starting
• 2763[22:40:48] <Xatenev> yes i am on 9
• 2764[22:40:50] <Tenkawa> new kernel time... brb
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• 2767[22:41:15] <Xatenev> jhutchins_wk1: (22:40:44) Xatenev: VirtualBox Guest Additions: Starting
• 2768[22:41:15] <Xatenev> (22:40:46) Xatenev: yes i am on 9
• 2769[22:41:15] <jhutchins_wk1> Ugh. Network bounce.
• 2770[22:41:41] <Xatenev> well
• 2771[22:41:43] <Xatenev> that had no effect
• 2772[22:41:48] <Xatenev> do i have to enable it somehow again or osmething lol
• 2773[22:41:55] <Xatenev> but atleast my system didnt freeze this time lol
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• 2776[22:42:34] <jhutchins_wk1> Xatenev: I believe I had to reboot, but there was no manual configuration.
• 2777[22:42:57] <Xatenev> well i rebooted
• 2778[22:42:59] <Xatenev> it didnt help:P
• 2779[22:43:09] <Xatenev> meh
• 2780[22:43:10] <Xatenev> windows it is, then
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• 2783[22:44:42] <Xatenev> ty for the help anyways
• 2784[22:44:44] * Xatenev disappears
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• 2788[22:48:38] <jhutchins_wk1> Hm. Maybe it's different hardware, although it should all be emulated.
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• 2795[22:54:39] <jhutchins_wk1> Don't users have to be identified before they can join this channel?
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• 2798[22:55:39] <greycat> no
• 2799[22:56:08] <jhutchins_wk1> Ok, 'splains that.
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• 2801[22:57:04] <jhutchins_wk1> irssi doesn't re-ident when I reconnect.
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• 2817[23:03:08] <Peyam> hi.
• 2818[23:03:25] <Peyam> Im trying to run the unity install using this command: sudo chown -R $USER:$USER Unity-2018.2.6f1
• 2819[23:03:30] <Peyam> but it does not work
• 2820[23:03:58] <greycat> that doesn't run an install. that changes ownership of stuff.
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• 2822[23:04:51] <Peyam> so how I run the installer
• 2823[23:04:52] <Tenkawa> netsplit?
• 2824[23:04:58] <Peyam> what?
• 2825[23:05:16] <Tenkawa> i didnt get a userliat up
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• 2827[23:05:36] <Tenkawa> yep
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• 2835[23:09:42] <melpy> ?w?
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• 2845[23:13:00] <annadane> w!
• 2846[23:14:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1555
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• 2850[23:15:18] <melpy> Peyam: chmod +x Unity-2018.2.6f1 then ./Unity-2018.2.6ft1
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• 2854[23:17:37] <melpy> oh, they're all gone, netsplit... rip
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• 2871[23:24:51] <CarlFK> how do I install fdisk? replaced-url
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• 2874[23:25:16] <CarlFK> or, how do I list partitions like fdisk -l
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• 2877[23:25:53] <dax> CarlFK: package name is util-linux in stable
• 2878[23:26:04] <CarlFK> dax: thanks
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• 2888[23:28:03] <n1ce> hi, hola
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• 2913[23:43:08] <TTT> hi, is kernel 5.1 available on buster, maybe from an unofficial repo or something? Or must I compile it myself?
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• 2917[23:44:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1547
• 2918[23:44:04] <dvs> TTT, I think you'll have to compile it yourself
• 2919[23:44:18] <dvs> buster is frozen and it has 4.19, I thinks
• 2920[23:44:21] <dvs> ,kernels
• 2921[23:44:22] <judd> Available kernel versions are: experimental: 5.0.0-trunk-686-pae (5.0.2-1~exp1); sid: 4.19.0-5-686-pae (4.19.37-3); buster: 4.19.0-4-686-pae (4.19.28-2); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae (4.19.28-2~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.9.0-9-686 (4.9.168-1+deb9u2); jessie-backports: 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.9-686-pae (4.9.168-1+deb9u2~deb8u1); wheezy-
• 2922[23:44:23] <judd> backports: 3.16.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae (3.16.39-1+deb8u1~bpo70+1); wheezy: 3.2.0-6-686-pae (3.2.102-1)
• 2923[23:44:31] <TTT> ok then, it's a slow machine it will take a looong while to do it...
• 2924[23:44:31] <rwp> Is it in backports? But is there a reason you need 5.1 specifically?
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• 2927[23:45:06] <rwp> If you are trying to mitigate MDS then the latest Buster kernel has the fix for it.
• 2928[23:45:16] *** Joins: Freshnuts (~Freshnuts@replaced-ip)
• 2929[23:45:25] <TTT> I just don't like 4.19, and I have AMD graphics which always benefits from latest kernels.
• 2930[23:45:28] <rwp> And by the way... Buster Testing questions are best discussed in #debian-next on OFTC network.
• 2931[23:45:46] <TTT> yes I know, but I always forget to add oftc network to hexchat server list...
• 2932[23:45:47] *** Joins: madage (~madage@replaced-ip)
• 2933[23:45:54] <TTT> thanks anyway, I'll go start the build
• 2934[23:45:59] <TTT> hopefully it's done by tomorrow
• 2935[23:46:08] * rwp laughs
• 2936[23:46:14] <TTT> backports for buster is empty BTW
• 2937[23:46:15] <TTT> checked
• 2938[23:46:29] *** Joins: eddof13 (~eddof13@replaced-ip)
• 2939[23:46:34] <rwp> Yes. If you want to test the latest kernels yourself for graphics and other things then compiling yourself is the way.
• 2940[23:46:43] *** Joins: kusmario (~kusmario@replaced-ip)
• 2941[23:46:57] <rwp> It isn't that much effort. Even a slow machine will get there eventually.
• 2942[23:47:04] <jhutchins> TTT: You do know that the CVE's been patched in the older kernels, right?
• 2943[23:47:22] <TTT> I know, this isn't my first time, I just thought maybe I'll save some time. I do know some things are backported
• 2944[23:47:23] *** Joins: jurisl__ (~RebelCode@replaced-ip)
• 2945[23:47:24] <jhutchins> TTT: Although for testing they might not have done the backport.
• 2946[23:47:52] <rwp> The kernels bot dump of versions above says it isn't in backports.
• 2947[23:48:38] <rwp> For that matter my Sid machine doesn't have it yet. It is only in experimental so far.
• 2948[23:48:51] <TTT> my Sid desktop is running liquorix kernels
• 2949[23:49:26] <TTT> this is for my 2nd machine which is on buster as I needed something more stable
• 2950[23:49:35] *** Joins: Emmanuel_Chanel (~Emmanuel_@replaced-ip)
• 2951[23:49:57] <rwp> For robust stable systems Stable is always a good choice. :-)
• 2952[23:49:58] <TTT> and it's not on stable because I tried to get full disk encryption working with some funky setup which was not supported on stable
• 2953[23:50:23] <rwp> Huh? I am typing this on an fully encrypted disk system and it all works very well.
• 2954[23:50:33] *** Quits: RebelCoderRU (~RebelCode@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
• 2955[23:51:10] <TTT> yes, with luks, I tried using dm-crypt directly with keys on an USB key
• 2956[23:51:14] *** Joins: hans__ (~hans@replaced-ip)
• 2957[23:51:31] <rwp> I'll be the first to admit that installing a RAID on LVM system is not completely trivial. Needs love and attention. Can be done though. But encrypted lvm storage is the simple option.
• 2958[23:51:36] <hans__> any debian equivalent of this ubuntu command? wget replaced-url
• 2959[23:51:36] <hans__> OK
• 2960[23:52:01] <TTT> and encrypted /boot or something, it was a while ago, and I failed to get it to work anyway and then life happened. I'll come back to hacking it later when I have time to sleep
• 2961[23:52:13] <rwp> hans__, wget is standard everywhere. Just use it. Please say more about what you want.
• 2962[23:52:49] *** Joins: victorqueiroz (uid340368@replaced-ip)
• 2963[23:53:16] <hans__> rwp, i want a mirror for the netinst installer's initrd
• 2964[23:53:27] <rwp> TTT, Think of the bootstrapping problem. At some starting point things cannot be encrypted. Make that as small as possible. Then upgrade to full encryption at the earliest opportunity. That always always means an unencrypted /boot.
• 2965[23:54:03] *** Parts: sveva65 (~sverre@replaced-ip) ()
• 2966[23:54:21] <TTT> not strictly true, you can use encryption based on a password for /boot
• 2967[23:54:52] <rwp> hans__, Start here: replaced-url
• 2968[23:54:57] *** Quits: _0bitcount (~Big_Byte@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 2969[23:55:01] <TTT> or hide keys in a sea of noise and enter their strict location every time you boot etc.
• 2970[23:55:23] <hans__> rwp, i don't want an iso, i want a bootable kernel i can put in /boot and boot into to start the installer without a cd/usb stick
• 2971[23:55:31] <rwp> Or face a camera at a QR code on the wall and it will boot unless someone has stolen the hardware but forgotten to take the QR poster with them.
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• 2974[23:55:50] <TTT> effectively there's ways to make all your disks look like /dev/urandom vominted except for maybe an USB key, and decrypt and boot things still
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• 2976[23:56:34] <rwp> hans__, Isn't that what is in the netboot.tar.gz file stored there?
• 2977[23:56:37] <hans__> rwp, specifically, i want these 3 files :D replaced-url
• 2978[23:56:50] <hans__> well, 3 of the 4 files in there
• 2979[23:56:53] <rwp> hans__, Sorry it has been a few years since I set up a PXE boot system. I would need to walk through the process to refresh my memory of it.
• 2980[23:57:32] *** Quits: leandrovianna (~leandrovi@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 2981[23:58:11] <rwp> hans__, Sooo... You are good then? Those are the files you want?
• 2982[23:58:23] <hans__> yep, i'm good
• 2983[23:58:32] <rwp> \o/
• 2984[23:59:20] <melpy> |
• 2985[23:59:56] <hans__> also i'm not going to use PXE.. im just putting the installer files in /boot and running a little sed and then it will boot into the netinst installer.. from /boot. - sed -i -r "s/\/vmlinuz[^\n]*/\/linux/" /boot/grub/grub.cfg ; sed -i -r "s/\/initrd\.img[^\n]*/\/initrd.gz/" /boot/grub/grub.cfg
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