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• 3[00:00:36] <blackflow> ryouma: to _what_ tho, that's the $32k question atm
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• 20[00:10:59] <borrougagnou> Hi ! I'm back after less than 1month + lot of exams !
• 21[00:11:11] <borrougagnou> I have always my problem....
• 22[00:11:52] <borrougagnou> and I think the problem is Xorg... not XFCE4...
• 23[00:12:21] <borrougagnou> + my XFCE4 crashing today absolutely IDK why with that .... replaced-url
• 24[00:12:39] <borrougagnou> Fatal IO error 11 ...
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• 39[00:24:24] <borrougagnou> debian repo backports is just awful... lots of bug...
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• 42[00:27:21] <FinalX> no shit, that's the whole salespitch of backports
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• 44[00:27:40] <FinalX> it pays to read before enabling it, instead of complaining about it: first line in the "About backports"-section: replaced-url
• 45[00:27:52] <FinalX> you get what you ask for..
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• 49[00:28:53] <borrougagnou> the problem is, I need to use backports repo for my Wireless card...
• 50[00:29:07] <borrougagnou> Wireless card who use Kernel 4.10 +
• 51[00:29:39] <rant> so use it then
• 52[00:30:42] <borrougagnou> I use it... but I have a lots of bug now
• 53[00:31:24] <borrougagnou> Ho ! I'm wrong ! My Wireless card need to use Kernel 4.14
• 54[00:31:47] <borrougagnou> replaced-url
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• 56[00:32:25] <rant> is there something someone can help you with?
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• 59[00:33:02] <borrougagnou> that's why I use backport repo.... but it's fully bugged
• 60[00:33:19] <borrougagnou> with Xorg/XFCE4
• 61[00:33:19] <rant> you need to be more specific
• 62[00:33:39] <rant> borrougagnou: how did you "use backports"?
• 63[00:33:49] <rant> because something tells me you did it ALL WRONG
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• 66[00:34:35] <rant> backports is not a repo you use IN PLACE OF a normal Debian stable repo, nor is it something you "upgrade" or "dist-upgrade" to..
• 67[00:34:50] <rant> to use a kernel from backports this should have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with Xorg or XFCE
• 68[00:35:14] <borrougagnou> apt install -t stretch-backports linux-image-amd64 linux-header-<uname -a for check version> firmware-iwlwifi
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• 71[00:35:39] <borrougagnou> I hve send last time a video about weird thing begin to appear in XFCE4 after an upgrade/full upgrade...
• 72[00:36:00] <borrougagnou> how can I access to irc debian log?
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• 74[00:36:47] <borrougagnou> my screen is fully bugged, icon dispapear, but reapear when I move mouse into this etc...
• 75[00:36:55] <ryouma> backports is not as nicely supported as the main repos. it would be great if it were nicely supported for certain user level applications like browsers and video and audio and bittorrent, but this isn't the case at this time.
• 76[00:37:16] <rant> !irclog
• 77[00:37:17] <dpkg> i heard irclog is #debian on <freenode> is logged at replaced-url
• 78[00:37:18] <borrougagnou> and today, idk why, my Xorg crashing with that replaced-url
• 79[00:37:35] <borrougagnou> rant: ha ! thx
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• 82[00:37:59] <borrougagnou> oof ! per day... that difficult, but I search
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• 98[00:46:30] <borrougagnou> I found my post when I installed the new firmware: 20181127 but nothing recent with my bug...
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• 110[00:54:38] <borrougagnou> where is the log between 20181205 and 20181223... in rikers.org ? + in the "thegrebs" website I don't found absolutely nothing about me
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• 113[00:57:14] <borrougagnou> HA ! good fortunately I keep the video on discord, so: replaced-url
• 114[00:57:22] <borrougagnou> It's a rendering problem...
• 115[00:58:59] <borrougagnou> and I discover how generate that (atm) just put stand by computer, lightDM request me to enter my login/password, and the bug appear...
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• 121[01:02:55] <borrougagnou_> F !
• 122[01:03:10] <borrougagnou_> if you say something I don't see nothing...
• 123[01:03:20] <borrougagnou_> I said: *this problem appear (I think) when he back to lightDM
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• 150[01:25:57] <borrougagnou_> so... I hate repo backports, "Debian" "Stable" okay "Debian" "Backport" absolutely not stable
• 151[01:26:58] <joepublic> it's optional.
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• 153[01:29:28] <borrougagnou_> at when Kernel 4.14 in "Debian stable" without backports ?
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• 157[01:33:57] <joepublic> I am not recommending liquorix, but I believe their debian kernel is at 4.19
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• 165[01:40:03] <blackflow> borrougagnou_: never. when buster becomes stable, it'll be 4.19
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• 194[02:01:37] <borrougagnou_> blackflow... okay ... so... in the middle of this year ?
• 195[02:03:49] <ksk> "when its done".
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• 197[02:05:34] <borrougagnou_> I waiting this moment for format my computer... because all of this bug are very annoying...
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• 201[02:06:46] <joepublic> you can compile any kernel version you want and use it with any debian version you want if you have a special need for a particular version. Though the official distribution kernels are recommended.
• 202[02:07:02] <joepublic> There should be an "almost" in there somewhere
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• 205[02:08:10] <borrougagnou_> I know but the problem isn't only the kernel...
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• 208[02:09:15] <borrougagnou_> I need to recompile aIso : Xorg, XFCE4, LightDM
• 209[02:09:43] <joepublic> um.
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• 221[02:19:02] <ksk> you are most likely doing it wrong.
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• 234[02:31:57] <joepublic> I think they meant they would have to also compile those things for my suggestion to compile a kernel to be useful as it applies to their particular problem
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• 310[03:32:53] <roenie> I just installed netinst alpha4, and root's path is the same as regular user's path, so /sbin is not be in it, even though /etc/profile says if id -u is 0, use a path which clearly includes it.
• 311[03:33:10] <roenie> -be
• 312[03:33:39] <roenie> why does this happen?
• 313[03:34:34] <roenie> when I run id -u, it returns 0 as it should
• 314[03:34:51] <joepublic> buster has not been released. thanks for volunteering to test this unreleased software. you are invited to join the other testers in #debian-next on irc.oftc.net, where you will find knowledgeable people who know what you are talking about.
• 315[03:35:05] <joepublic> Your efforts are appreciated.
• 316[03:35:54] <roenie> ah wrong channel, my bad
• 317[03:36:12] <joepublic> you would think "debian" would be "the debian channel", but alas...
• 318[03:36:25] <roenie> drat, #debian-next is invite only
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• 320[03:36:35] <joepublic> it's on irc.oftc.net
• 321[03:37:17] <roenie> whoops. 3:36 am, I'm a little zombified
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• 323[03:37:41] <joepublic> Hopefully they will recognize exactly what you mean. Doesn't sound right to me.
• 324[03:38:03] <Abdullah> not invite only
• 325[03:38:06] <Abdullah> I'm in
• 326[03:38:15] <Abdullah> but yeah its on irc.oftc.net
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• 350[04:05:31] <roenie> joepublic, apparently due to a recent change in su, you now need to use su -l to get root's environment variables
• 351[04:05:44] <roenie> (in Buster)
• 352[04:06:05] <joepublic> su - won't do it anymore, in other words?
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• 354[04:07:44] <roenie> I'm not entirely sure what su - does and doesn't do, because the manpage says something about always using --login (or -l i guess), rather than - for short, to avoid side effects of mixing environments. The difference isn't explained.
• 355[04:08:32] <roenie> and "-", "-l" and "--login" are all listed as aliases further down the manpage
• 356[04:08:49] <joepublic> okay. interesting. thanks.
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• 361[04:10:56] <karlpinc> roenie: The change is you can't just use "su" because that no longer sets $PATH.
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• 368[04:14:07] <roenie> I quote from the manpage: "It is recommended to always use the --login option ( instead of its shortcut - ) to avoid side effects caused by mixing environments"
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• 370[04:14:46] <roenie> that said I do not see a difference between - and -l or --login
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• 381[04:27:49] <joepublic> - would have to straight-up not work for me to type the other six characters of that.
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• 389[04:35:48] <karlpinc> roenie: There is no difference.
• 390[04:36:50] <joepublic> except in the opinion of the manpage author, one would assume?
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• 480[06:08:43] <Na_Klar> on my debian server hwclock gives the correct time but date shifts slowly into the future. after 3-4 months date is about 40min ahead while hwclock remains correct. why is that?
• 481[06:09:27] <Na_Klar> (this happend the 4th time now, I always correct date but then I have to do it again after few months)
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• 483[06:12:35] <friendofafriend> Na_Klar: Not sure the cause of the drift, but you could make a cron job run "hwclock -s" to sync the system's time to the hardware clock.
• 484[06:12:47] <SerajewelKS> Na_Klar: all hardware clocks do this over time. they are imprecise.
• 485[06:13:02] <Na_Klar> friendofafriend: that's a workaround, thx
• 486[06:13:12] <Na_Klar> SerajewelKS: it is not hwclock which drifts. its date.
• 487[06:13:13] <SerajewelKS> Na_Klar: run an ntp server to keep your clock correct
• 488[06:13:26] <SerajewelKS> Na_Klar: it's still a hardware clock (the CPU)
• 489[06:13:36] <Na_Klar> ah ok .. didn't know that
• 490[06:13:42] <SerajewelKS> it's just not "the reference BIOS hardware clock that persists time while the sytem is powered down"
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• 492[06:13:59] <friendofafriend> I'm using gpsd and ntpd to achieve this. If you need more precision, you can get a GPS that allows you to set to "pulse-per-second" (PPS).
• 493[06:14:11] <Na_Klar> I see, thanks so far
• 494[06:14:14] <SerajewelKS> ntpd is usually sufficient
• 495[06:14:29] <SerajewelKS> (it's default on debian, IIRC... perhaps it got uninstalled or disabled)
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• 497[06:14:40] <friendofafriend> Sure, but sometimes systems are where a network is not.
• 498[06:14:49] <SerajewelKS> indeed
• 499[06:14:55] <SerajewelKS> gpsd obviously requires a GPS receiver
• 500[06:15:00] <friendofafriend> And it's also nice to have time if you're offline. Another great source is TV tuners.
• 501[06:15:03] <ryouma> i used to use chrony which worked well but dunno if it is still usable
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• 504[06:15:26] <SerajewelKS> i used chrony some time ago for some reason i can't remember, but ntpd should work for neary everyone
• 505[06:15:36] <SerajewelKS> nearly*
• 506[06:16:10] <friendofafriend> There's a tool called "dvbdate" that will use LinuxDVB to set your system's time to a DVB or ATSC source. replaced-url
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• 509[06:17:00] <SerajewelKS> Na_Klar: IIRC there are three windows of inaccuracy that ntpd will handle, and i don't remember exactly what they are, but it works like this: (1) if you are within the smallest window, ntpd will not immediately set the current time, but will instead "slew" the clock causing it to slowly come into sync.
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• 511[06:17:05] <SerajewelKS> oh he left
• 512[06:17:27] <ryouma> Fri 25 Jan 2019 10:15:58 PM MST -0.504864 seconds
• 513[06:17:34] <ryouma> what is that offset there?
• 514[06:17:44] <SerajewelKS> MST? US mountain time.
• 515[06:17:44] <friendofafriend> His loss. ;) I'm using a Raspberry Pi with a USB GPS for ntpd.
• 516[06:18:05] <ryouma> SerajewelKS: what is the offset?
• 517[06:18:16] <ryouma> the last number
• 518[06:18:42] <SerajewelKS> ryouma: i have no idea what output that, but if it's related to ntp, probably the current estimate of how incorrect your clock is
• 519[06:18:44] <friendofafriend> You can break out the PPS line from most GPS receivers, but there's no way to achieve good precision over USB. So you'll need to use a serial port or a GPIO pin.
• 520[06:18:48] <ryouma> hwclock
• 521[06:19:11] <SerajewelKS> oh then i think that's the offset between the hardware (BIOS) clock and the system clock
• 522[06:19:23] <SerajewelKS> the manepage should tell you
• 523[06:19:46] <ryouma> those are big numbers
• 524[06:19:50] <ryouma> almost a second
• 525[06:19:57] <SerajewelKS> what's the uptime on this box?
• 526[06:20:13] <ryouma> 1d7h
• 527[06:21:06] <SerajewelKS> what flags did you give to hwclock? i can't replicate this output.
• 528[06:21:14] <ryouma> none
• 529[06:21:18] <ryouma> jessie
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• 533[06:21:33] <SerajewelKS> maybe it changed in stretch. i get "2019-01-26 00:20:37.644272-0500"
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• 536[06:22:23] <SerajewelKS> my understanding is that drift between the system and hardware clocks is inevitable and largely irrelevant unless you cannot use ntpd for some reason
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• 539[06:23:03] <SerajewelKS> while the system is on they will necessarily drift because the kernel doesn't set the hardware clock continuously, IIRC only on shutdown
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• 541[06:23:28] <SerajewelKS> the kernel reads the hardware clock during startup and after that it doesn't care about it
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• 543[06:24:36] <SerajewelKS> ryouma: if i'm reading this output right, the hardware clock on my server is about 18 minutes off
• 544[06:24:47] <ryouma> huh
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• 550[06:26:09] <SerajewelKS> note that /etc/adjtime contains metrics about how much the hardware clock drifts, and the kernel can use this to correct for a bad hardware clock
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• 553[06:27:04] <SerajewelKS> e.g. if ntpd gives us reliable time and we know that the hardware clock drifts +/- X seconds every Y days, we can record that along with the current timestamp. assuming that the drift is linear, then we can correct the hardware clock reading at any point in the future by referencing that data.
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• 555[06:28:07] <SerajewelKS> though the mtime on that file for me is 2017 so maybe it isn't continuously calibrated
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• 559[06:28:58] <SerajewelKS> ryouma: ok no my hwclock is accurate to at least +/- 1 second. my adjtime must be garbage.
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• 562[06:35:02] <SerajewelKS> ryouma: what's the output of "ntptime" for you?
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• 581[06:55:06] <rant> I have a laptop with a mini display port I hook to my tv via hdmi, I run currently xfce on stretch and I'd like for the system to switch pulse to HDMI audio when I plug that cable in.. afaik MATE did this. Any thoughts, suggestions?
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• 583[06:56:53] <diogenes_> rant, try pavucontrol
• 584[06:57:25] <rant> yes, I have pavucontrol and all I see is what I been doing. going in and changing the output on a per app basis manually
• 585[06:59:06] <diogenes_> rant, so it works?
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• 587[06:59:20] <rant> no, perhaps you didnt read my question
• 588[06:59:47] <rant> lemme say the relevant part again for the cheap seats.. I want it to switch AUTOMATICALLY when I plug in the cable :P
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• 590[07:00:16] <rant> for all applications.. not have to switch manually by opening pavucontrol for each app individually
• 591[07:00:40] <rant> there is no master output device in pavucontrol all tabs show both outputs
• 592[07:00:53] <rant> there are also no settings relevant to hotplugging
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• 657[07:59:46] <Agiofws> ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
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• 770[09:38:33] <rant> I seem to have several speech-dispatcher processes running and I can't seem to figure out why. The process tree shows them stemming off init
• 771[09:41:08] <PaddyF> does your system have tools installed for visually impaired people?
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• 773[09:41:34] <RoeSrv> oh no. they've become sentient and are now talking amongst each other
• 774[09:41:43] <RoeSrv> turn it off!
• 775[09:41:48] <rant> heh
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• 777[09:43:43] <rant> yes well thats what I'd like to figure out
• 778[09:44:09] <rant> being that these are showing init as their parent process, I am guessing they are orphans that were adopted
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• 781[09:44:32] * PaddyF sighs and walks away
• 782[09:44:34] <rant> cause I see no reason init would've spawned text to speech processes as my user
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• 785[09:47:37] <rant> idk.. all I got going on is XFCE, some ffmpeg processes running in screen, netflix in firefox.. nothing I'm doing requires text to speech
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• 794[09:52:49] <RoeSrv> rant, try abusing the apt-get -s remove to see what it wants to remove along with it, might offer a clue
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• 796[09:53:25] <RoeSrv> (simulating removal)
• 797[09:53:26] <rant> RoeSrv: well I like the way you're thinkng.. heh.. but I've installed nothing lately.. this wasnt something recently installed
• 798[09:53:48] <rant> I will look into what may have installed it in the first place though
• 799[09:53:58] <Myros> Hello, i'm currently in an initramfs busybox thingy shell, i cant boot. I renamed my vg, and update(d)-grub. I've edited fstab to match the new vg's name.if i try to unlock my luke_crypt partition it gives me an unknown fstype error. If i try blkid it shows me the disk. If i try cryptsetup open /... It says the device already exist. What can i do?
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• 803[09:56:31] <RoeSrv> Myros, edit fstab *before* update-grub
• 804[09:57:02] <RoeSrv> in case that wasn't implied ;)
• 805[09:57:29] <rant> well, appears as though they were pulled in as dependencies of gnome-orca which I wasn't aware I even had.. and I certainly haven't ever run
• 806[09:58:12] <RoeSrv> ah yes, orca. I have it on my brand new install of Buster as well, not working I might add
• 807[09:59:06] <rant> I gotta go check my dpkg logs.. cause removing gnome-orca isnt showing anything having pulled it in
• 808[09:59:09] <RoeSrv> because there seems to be no voices installed to actually do the speaking
• 809[09:59:13] <rant> and I know I never told it to be installed
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• 811[09:59:38] <RoeSrv> I think this comes in as part of the accessibility stuff
• 812[10:00:28] <RoeSrv> I didn't choose it either, it comes with buster by default
• 813[10:00:46] <RoeSrv> at least when I choose KDE at install time it does
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• 816[10:03:08] <rant> idk looking at rdepends I think it got pulled in by apt as a recommends on a desktop environemnt metapackage.. of all the shit I've not liked over the years these new apt "features" are perhaps the worst
• 817[10:04:13] <rant> this all still doesnt explain why its RUNNING right now
• 818[10:04:41] <rant> I only noticed it was runnign cause I was adjusting volume in pavucontrol and there are 3 speech-dispatchers in there
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• 820[10:05:17] <rant> this is the first time I've ever seen or known of it before..
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• 824[10:06:46] <rant> if I thought anyone would listen I'd bitch to the hills and back about this updates and auto installing recommends and such being enabled by default.. but looks like I am going to HAVE to start using expert install methods now to avoid this crap
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• 831[10:09:38] <RoeSrv> rant, replaced-url
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• 834[10:11:33] <RoeSrv> "speech-dispatcher runs as a daemon"
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• 836[10:11:58] <rant> RoeSrv: if this were always running i'd have noticed it before.. I use pavucontrol multiple times daily every day
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• 839[10:12:15] <rant> there has to be some reason why its just now showing up three times in my mixer
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• 841[10:12:46] <rant> I had to scroll past 3 of them taking up the whole viewable window to get to the programs I wanted to adjust.. I'd have noticed that
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• 846[10:14:47] <rant> I am ultimately going to remove all this crap and avoid having it install in the future when I install.. but the thing I'm trying to figure out is why its there NOW when I see something random and different I can't explain I have to explore the possibility this is a rootkit, trojan or something else disguised as a text to speech program
• 847[10:15:14] <rant> if it were always there I wouldn't have mentioned it :P
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• 858[10:22:46] <rant> which is why I haven't killed and removed it yet, cause I need to figure out that it is what it claims to be and is running for a reason
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• 862[10:23:22] <rant> which is all a pita :D
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• 984[11:45:11] <rockstorm> Hi, I'm getting this message when running an app: "org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name org.freedesktop.ScreenSaver was not provided by any .service files"
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• 986[11:45:31] <rockstorm> I run the MATE DE and dpkg shows 'mate-screensaver' is installed
• 987[11:45:37] <rockstorm> What am I missing?
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• 990[11:49:16] <rant> rockstorm: are you saying you actually /want/ a screensaver or that you just read too many messages and think they're all important?
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• 1000[11:52:31] <rockstorm> rant, I'm sorry I don't fully understand the second part of your sentence. I'm running a python script which imports the dbus module and the line "bus = dbus.SessionBus()" fails with above error.
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• 1003[11:53:05] <rockstorm> I understand, the program is looking for a screensaver but it is not able to find it somehow (?)
• 1004[11:53:40] <blackflow> rockstorm: does dbus.SystemBus().list_names() show anything related to a screensaver? also, this is totally not a debian issue :)
• 1005[11:53:56] <blackflow> it's eitehr about a faulty mate component or dbus programming in python
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• 1009[11:55:44] <nuxil> Hi
• 1010[11:56:15] <rockstorm> blackflow, so the service "org.freedesktop.ScreenSaver" *must* be provided by the mate screensaver? I want to make sure before reporting
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• 1012[11:56:35] <rant> yes and you're undoubtedly reading the python traceback wrong.. because that line only connects to the bus
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• 1041[12:18:44] <t3st3r> rockstorm> basically message says that you had no screensaver service on dbus, yet something wanted it. Not sure how python is involved, dbus is generic thing, it does not cares who provides service or how.
• 1042[12:19:42] <t3st3r> basically message tells nobody has been willing to provide "screensaver" service on dbus. Maybe you want to install some screensaver or so.
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• 1055[12:24:29] <rockstorm> Thank you all guys, it seems the mate screensaver does not expose an interface called "org.freedesktop.ScreenSaver"
• 1056[12:24:37] <rockstorm> As per replaced-url
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• 1059[12:25:15] <rockstorm> (Hint by wnws)
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• 1086[12:40:12] <CrazyTux> is it ok to manually upgrade the kernel to a newer version?
• 1087[12:40:41] <rant> sure, is the backport kernel not new enough for your needs?
• 1088[12:40:42] <ikonia> CrazyTux: that's up to you
• 1089[12:40:43] <ikonia> jut be aware of the risk
• 1090[12:40:45] <ikonia> your system you can do what you want
• 1091[12:40:56] <ikonia> I doubt this is even a debian box, it's normally some fork
• 1092[12:40:58] <CrazyTux> ikonia, what are the risks?
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• 1094[12:41:08] <t3st3r> CrazyTux> Usually yes. As long as kernel supports your HW reasonably.
• 1095[12:41:12] <rant> CrazyTux: the risks being that you have to maintain it yourself, you wont be recieving patches and updates via apt
• 1096[12:41:33] <CrazyTux> what if the distro provides it?
• 1097[12:41:41] <allorder> frekendebian
• 1098[12:41:46] <ikonia> why would you need to do it manually then
• 1099[12:41:51] <ikonia> if the distro provided it
• 1100[12:41:52] <t3st3r> If distro provides it, they likely support it.
• 1101[12:41:58] <ikonia> CrazyTux: give your EXACT problem
• 1102[12:42:01] <ikonia> and your EXACT distro
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• 1105[12:42:56] <CrazyTux> ikonia, if in the package install utility provided by the distro, a newer version of the kernel is available, would it be ok to install it?
• 1106[12:43:10] <ikonia> CrazyTux: give your exact problem and distro
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• 1108[12:43:48] <rant> CrazyTux: you're suppose to install a new kernel available, it likely contains patches vital to your system security.. read the changelog
• 1109[12:43:50] <CrazyTux> ikonia, the distro is debian based MX Linux.
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• 1111[12:43:55] <ikonia> there we go
• 1112[12:43:56] <ikonia> not debian
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• 1114[12:43:58] <ikonia> as expeted
• 1115[12:44:03] <allorder> heh
• 1116[12:44:04] <ikonia> CrazyTux: talk to the MX guys
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• 1118[12:44:11] <ikonia> every time with this....
• 1119[12:44:24] <ikonia> #debian support debian, the mx channels and forums support mx
• 1120[12:44:48] <CrazyTux> ikonia, mx linux doesn't have a channel.
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• 1122[12:44:52] <allorder> we are not mx
• 1123[12:44:57] <ikonia> CrazyTux: then you picked a channel with poor support
• 1124[12:44:59] <rant> CrazyTux: so then don't use it
• 1125[12:45:08] <ikonia> use their support resources forums/mailing lists etc
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• 1127[12:45:23] <CrazyTux> ok
• 1128[12:45:47] <allorder> install debian and come back
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• 1130[12:45:56] <ikonia> or better still don't install debian
• 1131[12:46:02] <CrazyTux> allorder, sure.
• 1132[12:46:07] <CrazyTux> ikonia, why?
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• 1136[12:46:42] <ikonia> CrazyTux: because you persistantly refuse to follow main stream distros approach - break it, then come back complaining, use a crappy spin off and expect the main distros to support you
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• 1139[12:47:02] <ikonia> so don't bother installing debian as you'll do your best to not follow the approach
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• 1141[12:48:46] <rant> CrazyTux: are you running linux as a personal desktop operating system for everyday use?
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• 1152[12:52:41] <t3st3r> ikonia> as for breaking it, well, good luck to boot "stock" Debian on, say, recent AMD GPUs. So maybe there're reasons...
• 1153[12:53:25] <ikonia> t3st3r: this guys done this crap for 18+ months, he breaks it with his own approach, then complains the distro is broken
• 1154[12:53:42] <ikonia> hence why I knew it wouldn't be debian
• 1155[12:53:45] <ikonia> known proven liar
• 1156[12:53:59] <ikonia> zero patience for it taking up peoples time any more
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• 1158[12:54:14] <CrazyTux> ikonia, you are wrong. I have not done anything to break a distro that I have used or have been using.
• 1159[12:54:23] <t3st3r> ahh I'm not aware of all these wars and so on. Though I'm one who dares to use my own kernels on top of debian.
• 1160[12:54:36] <t3st3r> just because I like my kernel builds better :)
• 1161[12:54:45] <ikonia> CrazyTux: you're banned from ##linux for this very reason
• 1162[12:54:50] <ikonia> and other channels
• 1163[12:55:00] <ikonia> t3st3r: yeah, anyone else it would be a real discussion
• 1164[12:55:06] <ikonia> t3st3r: this is just time wasting nonsense though
• 1165[12:55:27] <CrazyTux> t3st3r, I thought newer versions of kernels bring more functionality and have fewer bugs.
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• 1167[12:55:42] <ikonia> gets banned from channel, moves to new channel repeat, now you've landed on debian
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• 1169[12:55:48] <rant> ok, well the only one being disruptive to THIS channel right now is you. We have #debian-offtopic for this kind of discussion
• 1170[12:56:01] <ikonia> rant: ageed, apologies,
• 1171[12:56:09] <rant> what I was trying to do here, is get to the root of this issue and maybe stop the pattern
• 1172[12:56:25] <ikonia> rant: I wish you well with it, please be aware the details you get a lies
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• 1174[12:56:36] <t3st3r> CrazyTux> well, if you don't run debian we're formally off the topic...
• 1175[12:57:04] <rant> CrazyTux: are you running linux on your personal computer for daily use as a desktop operating system?
• 1176[12:57:15] <CrazyTux> ikonia, I have debian installed on other computers. I intend to upgrade the kernels there too.
• 1177[12:57:19] <t3st3r> you can try #debian-offtopic if you want I guess.
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• 1179[12:58:16] <ikonia> now all of a sudden the question is exactly the same and you're running debian on "other computers" yet your initial question was not debian
• 1180[12:58:22] <ikonia> over to the operators on this, I'm out
• 1181[12:58:37] <CrazyTux> Ubuntu has this tool UKUU to upgrade the kernel. Does Debian have any such tool?
• 1182[12:58:54] <rant> CrazyTux: yes apt update and apt upgrade
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• 1184[12:59:12] <rant> CrazyTux: the debian kernel team maintains updates to the kernels
• 1185[12:59:15] <CrazyTux> rant, does it upgrade the kernel too?
• 1186[12:59:22] <rant> of course it does
• 1187[12:59:34] <t3st3r> Debian haves backports and testing for more recent kernels as one example.
• 1188[12:59:35] <bites> not to the latest mainline kernel.
• 1189[12:59:47] <ikonia> you're talking to him as if he's running debian
• 1190[12:59:50] <ikonia> he's already said he's not
• 1191[12:59:56] <t3st3r> And btw I do like Debian does all update things through one tool - their package manager :)
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• 1193[13:00:13] <rant> CrazyTux: you should understand that for the most part (with a few exceptions) debian doesn't change version numbers in a stable release. It just patches the version that is part of the stable release
• 1194[13:00:18] <t3st3r> some separate tool to update kernel does not sounds cool.
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• 1197[13:01:14] <t3st3r> There're some reasons behind it: once it works, it works. For next few years. Not to be taken as granted for new kernel or program version.
• 1198[13:01:18] <CrazyTux> ok. I have one more question. Some distros are based on Debian. Distros like Mint and MX Linux have developed some really nice tools that enhance the user experiene. Does Debian adopt such useful tools developed by other distros?
• 1199[13:02:43] <rant> CrazyTux: sometimes, but in most cases no. Every linux distribution has different goals and being that all of them are open source they all contribute to the linux community in their own way.
• 1200[13:02:53] <t3st3r> humm now I'm starting to get idea... Debian's user experience isn't best of the best when it comes to newb users. Yet it is a good "base" to start with.
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• 1203[13:03:31] <rant> that is why I am trying to get to the root of this users needs but you folks are just doing idle chatter and badgering
• 1204[13:03:38] <t3st3r> Debian got its share of quirks and odds and tradeoffs. Overall it looks like one of valid options to me.
• 1205[13:03:51] <CrazyTux> ok
• 1206[13:04:59] <rant> CrazyTux: What made me choose Debian and keep using it all these years were the replaced-url
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• 1209[13:05:28] <CrazyTux> rant, ok
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• 1212[13:06:54] <CrazyTux> rant, do you have any link to an article which explains in detail a step by step process to make Debian stable really newbie friendly?
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• 1214[13:07:42] <rant> CrazyTux: no. Do you have a link to a document that explains what newbie friendly is?
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• 1216[13:07:51] <ikonia> CrazyTux: the question is what's "unfriendly" about it
• 1217[13:08:00] <ikonia> what is unstable and what is unfriendly out of the box
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• 1219[13:08:55] <CrazyTux> rant, I want to install Debian stable and turn it into as easy as Mint.
• 1220[13:09:02] <ikonia> what is hard about it
• 1221[13:09:15] <ikonia> the meta questions don't help
• 1222[13:09:22] <ikonia> explain what you personally find hard
• 1223[13:09:34] <rant> CrazyTux: Mint runs Cinnamon, Debian has Cinnamon.. idk what is easy about Mint that Debian doesnt already do
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• 1226[13:10:51] <CrazyTux> rant, ok. I will try Debian 9 with Cinnamon and see.
• 1227[13:11:03] <rant> CrazyTux: You have to think seriously about what your priorities are, what you want out of an OS, and if you're willing to put the time in to learn how to do things
• 1228[13:11:24] <blackflow> perhaps they're talking about DYI debian vs. preconfigured-and-set-up-out-of-the-box-mint
• 1229[13:11:28] <ikonia> CrazyTux: you said you are already running debian on other computers
• 1230[13:11:42] <ikonia> CrazyTux: on those other computers what is 'hard' with debian
• 1231[13:11:57] <CrazyTux> blackflow, yes exactly.
• 1232[13:12:48] <ikonia> explain what you find hard please
• 1233[13:13:00] *** Quits: factor (~datasci@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 1234[13:13:04] <rant> please stop badgering people and disrupting this channel
• 1235[13:13:05] <ikonia> if you're already running debian on other computers as you said, it should be pretty easy to explain some of the key problems you have
• 1236[13:13:30] <rant> go to Freenode.net and read up on what they call a catalyst
• 1237[13:13:31] <CrazyTux> ikonia, I just wanted to know whether we can install on debian some tools that other debian based distros have developed.
• 1238[13:13:44] <ikonia> rant: I'm actually asking to understand
• 1239[13:13:46] *** Quits: pvdp (~pvdp@replaced-ip) (Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds))
• 1240[13:14:00] <ikonia> CrazyTux: yeah, I get that, but if you are struggling with specific things, what are they
• 1241[13:14:09] <ikonia> what are the things that makes debian tricky for you persoannlly ?
• 1242[13:14:17] <blackflow> CrazyTux: so any such document would then be manuals and documentations of specific components that you want to "preconfigure and set up on your debian installation" just like Mint did it.
• 1243[13:14:18] <CrazyTux> ikonia, mx linux which is a debian based distro has some really useful tools that makes linux so easy for a casual end user.
• 1244[13:14:19] <ikonia> (everyone will have different positive / negative issues)
• 1245[13:14:39] <patterson> Linux distros are more same than different
• 1246[13:14:42] <ikonia> CrazyTux: yeah, I get what MX does, but what does debian "not" do that makes it tricky for you
• 1247[13:14:46] <blackflow> CrazyTux: or in other words there probably not a single "How to turn Debian into Mint" detailed document out there, unless you perhaps google for it and find it.
• 1248[13:15:08] <CrazyTux> ikonia, I never said Debian is tricky.
• 1249[13:15:22] <CrazyTux> blackflow, ok
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• 1252[13:15:42] <ikonia> I'm missunderstanding then, as you're saying other distros make it easier - that suggested to me you found Debian "harder" for the others to be easier
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• 1256[13:16:12] <rant> The linux distros differ in their goals and priorties mostly. Redhat pays people to work on the linux kernel which benefits everyone, Gentoo needlessly compiles everything benefitting people from learning how to optimize things..etc
• 1257[13:16:26] *** Quits: Darcidride_ (~Darcidrid@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 1258[13:16:29] <ikonia> CrazyTux: you asked for a document to make it "noob friendly" - what about it is unfriendly ?
• 1259[13:16:44] <ikonia> (I'm paraphasing)
• 1260[13:17:00] *** Quits: him-cesjf (~cesjf@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
• 1261[13:17:05] * rant calls it badgering and goes out for a smoke
• 1262[13:17:25] <CrazyTux> ikonia, for me debian may not be that difficult to install and use since I have been trying linux distros for a while now. But, for someone who has been using Windows exclusively would you recommend Debian?
• 1263[13:17:44] <ikonia> CrazyTux: yes, hence why I'm asking what you see as the problems with it
• 1264[13:18:26] <CrazyTux> ikonia, I don't see any problem with Debian.
• 1265[13:19:06] <ikonia> ok - maybe it's my wording then, "why do you need a document on how to make it stable and friendly" against what is shipped with debian out of the box
• 1266[13:19:10] <ikonia> where is the gap
• 1267[13:19:10] *** Quits: mavhc (~mavhc@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
• 1268[13:19:11] <ikonia> ?
• 1269[13:19:22] <ikonia> is that better ?
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• 1272[13:20:35] <CrazyTux> ikonia, ok. Leave that.
• 1273[13:20:42] <ikonia> ?
• 1274[13:20:47] <ikonia> is that not valid anymore ?
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• 1276[13:21:44] <rudi_s> CrazyTux: I think for somebody who hasn't used Linux and how isn't prepared to invest some time into learning how it works, Debian isn't a good choice - unless an experienced Debian/Linux user is available to help with issues.
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• 1279[13:21:56] <rudi_s> s/how/who
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• 1282[13:22:26] <CrazyTux> rudi_s, yes. That is what I wanted to say.
• 1283[13:22:37] <rudi_s> If there's somebody available to fix issues (like printing, scanning, sending mails, etc.), then Debian works just fine.
• 1284[13:22:51] <rudi_s> And once it's configured Debian works quite well IMHO.
• 1285[13:23:57] <CrazyTux> debian project is so huge. Perhaps they should consider offering a version of Debian that parallels Mint is ease of installation and use. For a newbie.
• 1286[13:24:25] <allorder> dftt
• 1287[13:24:26] <ikonia> CrazyTux: so what is harder in debian from your perspetive for a new user /
• 1288[13:24:37] <Abdullah> lol
• 1289[13:24:56] <CrazyTux> ikonia, what rudi_s said.
• 1290[13:25:09] <Abdullah> ikonia: for me in debian the hard part was installation especially an encrypted installation
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• 1292[13:25:42] <ikonia> CrazyTux: that's pretty high level, what parts of the process do you think mark it hard ?
• 1293[13:25:46] *** Parts: Enrico_Menotti (Elite21922@replaced-ip) ()
• 1294[13:25:50] <ikonia> Abdullah: I think encyption makes an overhead on any distros installer
• 1295[13:25:56] <Abdullah> I rebooted to an arch iso just to create a partition and lvm
• 1296[13:26:00] <ikonia> and demands a certainl level of understanding from the user
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• 1298[13:26:50] <Abdullah> ikonia: I had no idea what those lvm terms are called. I was good in cli
• 1299[13:27:14] <CrazyTux> ikonia, if one has to recommend a linux distro to a newbie and a casual non technical end user, why one usually recommends ubuntu or mint?
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• 1301[13:27:42] <ikonia> CrazyTux: personal preference normally
• 1302[13:27:46] <Abdullah> most people go to arch after debian. I think I'm the only user who came to debian after arch
• 1303[13:27:53] <ikonia> CrazyTux: thats why I'm curious and digging on your personal view as most of it will be personal preference
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• 1305[13:28:18] <Abdullah> CrazyTux: I don't know but I couldn't solve dependencies in ubuntu.
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• 1307[13:28:29] <Abdullah> even I was a 6 months user of arch linux
• 1308[13:28:52] <Abdullah> I just came to debian to learn package management as most of the servers today running ubuntu
• 1309[13:29:16] <Abdullah> and I never used ubuntu in my desktops. but helped some friends remotely
• 1310[13:29:25] <CrazyTux> ikonia, ok. Even in some popular linux magazines I see Mint and Ubuntu recommended as alternatives of Windows. I wish to see Debian also there.
• 1311[13:29:36] <Abdullah> I'm now proudly user of debian but still I love arch
• 1312[13:29:42] <ikonia> CrazyTux: yeah, that's magazines
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• 1314[13:30:03] <Abdullah> none can beat arch linux when it comes to simplicity and minimalism
• 1315[13:30:04] <ikonia> CrazyTux: as I say most is personal prefernce, hence why the individual normally asking the qustion has to explain their perspective
• 1316[13:30:12] <CrazyTux> ikonia, but, magazines reflect the popular perception.
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• 1318[13:30:27] <ikonia> CrazyTux: no, they represent the view of the personan writing the article
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• 1320[13:30:38] <CrazyTux> ikonia, ok
• 1321[13:30:42] <ikonia> person even
• 1322[13:30:57] <Abdullah> I have to go so lets talk later.
• 1323[13:31:05] <ikonia> and they normally offer specifics becuse X Y Z I feel it has a lead over A, B, C
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• 1326[13:32:16] <bites> ubuntu is easier to install because of firmware and newer kernels than debian stable.
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• 1328[13:32:26] <CrazyTux> ok. btw, if I as a casual end user want packages of newer versions would Debian testing be ok? or should I stick to Stable for a consistent and stable performance?
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• 1332[13:33:51] <rudi_s> CrazyTux: testing is dangerous, because packages change often but don't get fixed quickly.
• 1333[13:34:13] <CrazyTux> rudi_s, ok
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• 1335[13:34:28] <ikonia> CrazyTux: that's one of the key reasons you've had problems with distros in general, chasing version numbers in packages, and mixing repos
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• 1337[13:34:30] <rudi_s> Normally sid is recommended if you want recent software, but of course that nullifies the advantages of a distribution with stable releases like debian.
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• 1340[13:34:43] <ikonia> try to keep with the distro provided packages
• 1341[13:34:49] <CrazyTux> ok
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• 1343[13:35:07] <CrazyTux> but, aren't ubuntu and mint based on debian testing?
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• 1348[13:36:20] <bites> so is debian stable.
• 1349[13:36:50] <qman__> ubuntu has a large team that maintains their own distribution, so regardless of the base, they package and maintain their own software, and will fix those broken things themselves
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• 1353[13:37:16] <CrazyTux> ok
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• 1360[13:45:04] <t3st3r> Guess testing takes a bit more than just casual user. Works for me, but I'm not a casual user.
• 1361[13:45:14] <nuxil> Im trying to setup nfs but im lost :p i added to my export file on the server : /mnt/netshare 192.168.1.0/255.255.255.0(rw,sync,no_subtree_check)
• 1362[13:45:38] <nuxil> then i ran exportfs -a without error. and showmount -e shows: /mnt/netshare 192.168.1.0/255.255.255.0
• 1363[13:45:47] <nuxil> but on my client when i try to mount it i get error
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• 1366[13:46:13] <nuxil> mount -t nfs 192.168.1.20:/mnt/netshare /mnt/netshare_dell/
• 1367[13:46:20] <nuxil> mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on 192.168.1.20:/mnt/netshare
• 1368[13:47:32] <nuxil> what am i doing wrong ?
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• 1372[13:50:45] <rant> CrazyTux: depending on what you need, there may be backports available or you may be able to fairly easily backport it yourself.
• 1373[13:50:53] *** Quits: EoflaOE (~EoflaOE@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
• 1374[13:50:55] <CrazyTux> ok
• 1375[13:52:54] <rant> CrazyTux: your issues seem to be largely based on confusion, so before you go do something you're not sure of just come here and ask.. but if you start with Debian stable the options for support are way better and you have a solid and well tested system to rely on while you experiment with things. You can also setup virutal machines to test things on top of your stable system and/or run things from a chroot
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• 1380[13:53:45] <nuxil> rant, i like your nick. its something i feel like doing now :D
• 1381[13:53:47] <CrazyTux> ok
• 1382[13:54:21] <t3st3r> rant> VMs wouldn't help much to see how it perofms on actual HW.
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• 1385[13:55:40] <t3st3r> yet there're live ISOs, including those with firmwares, etc - these could be useful to get idea.
• 1386[13:57:31] <bites> nuxil: does the error say something more?
• 1387[13:57:38] <CrazyTux> ok
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• 1394[14:02:08] <nuxil> bites, yes.
• 1395[14:02:17] <nuxil> let me use pastebin.. hold on
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• 1397[14:04:13] <nuxil> replaced-url
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• 1399[14:04:40] <bites> nuxil: is nfs-common installed on the client?
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• 1402[14:05:09] <nuxil> duh... thanks
• 1403[14:05:13] <rant> nuxil: please don't use that site from now on.. its atrocious.. use paste.debian.net, termbin (can be used with netcat), or if you're uber paranoid use 0bin.net
• 1404[14:05:15] <bites> hehe
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• 1406[14:05:45] <rant> pastebin.com uses cookies, heavy js, popups, ads, you name it.. its gross and ignorant
• 1407[14:06:16] <nuxil> ok. rant. will try to remember that
• 1408[14:06:38] <blackflow> sounds like general internet :)
• 1409[14:06:55] <nuxil> haha aint that true
• 1410[14:07:27] <rant> yes well people who hang out in irc to volunteer their time and expertise aren't your general kinda folk.. its polite to help them out by using interfaces that are easy for them to use
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• 1412[14:08:06] <nuxil> lets regress back to lynx :p
• 1413[14:08:12] <rant> I'm familiar with paste.debian.net I know how to view it any number of ways, in raw, with or without line numbers, etc..
• 1414[14:08:18] <bites> tweet it next time.
• 1415[14:08:36] <bites> just to trigger rant.
• 1416[14:08:45] *** Quits: noodlepie (~Phillip@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 1417[14:08:46] * rant blows a whistle to get a bunch pigeons to crap on bites
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• 1422[14:11:19] <blackflow> roll 20, save with a bag of breadcrumbs
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• 1432[14:15:43] <Wulf> Hello. It looks like /etc/network/if-up.d/ isn't executed. Is there a better place to put such scripts?
• 1433[14:16:08] <rant> Wulf: what are you using for networking? Network Manager?
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• 1436[14:16:50] <Wulf> rant: I don't really know. Not NetworkManager. Maybe some systemd stuff. And wpa_supplicant is used.
• 1437[14:17:17] <rant> Wulf: well, is this a desktop, do you use a GUI, desktop environment?
• 1438[14:17:38] <Wulf> rant: it's a raspberry pi zero, no desktop installed
• 1439[14:17:49] <Wulf> rant: I mostly use it through ssh
• 1440[14:17:58] <rant> the problem is obviously not that a script in /etc/network/if-up.d/ isnt being executed, its that you have no idea what you're using for networking :P
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• 1442[14:18:23] <mfm_> documentation in linux sucks.
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• 1444[14:18:30] <Wulf> rant: that's exactly my problem :-)
• 1445[14:18:34] <rant> Wulf: systemctl status network-manager
• 1446[14:18:51] <rant> mfm_: you need help with something?
• 1447[14:19:15] <Wulf> rant: told you, I don't use that one. It's not even installed.
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• 1449[14:19:22] <bites> Wulf: did you forget to make it executable?
• 1450[14:19:50] *** Joins: EoflaOE (~EoflaOE@replaced-ip)
• 1451[14:20:01] <Wulf> bites: no, it 0700.
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• 1454[14:21:03] <rant> Wulf: ah, so you're configuring /etc/network/interfaces then?
• 1455[14:21:16] <mfm_> rant: Thank you for aking, but no.
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• 1457[14:22:01] <Wulf> rant: that neither. Those are completely empty. I added my two wifi networks to wpa_supplicant.conf
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• 1459[14:22:27] <rant> mfm_: well thanks for expressing your dissenting general opinion on linux documentation in a concise manner then :P
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• 1462[14:23:04] <rant> Wulf: I see, and what OS are you running?
• 1463[14:23:11] <Wulf> rant: raspbian, stretch.
• 1464[14:24:04] <rant> Wulf: then you should go to raspbian because you have no idea what you're using for networking, and neither would most debian users here.. because we dont know what raspbian does
• 1465[14:24:12] <rant> !raspbian
• 1466[14:24:13] <dpkg> Raspbian is a distribution <based on Debian> made specifically for the <Raspberry Pi>. Raspbian is not Debian and it is not supported in #debian. Please use #raspbian on irc.freenode.net for support. replaced-url
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• 1474[14:28:21] <mfm_> rant: I'm sorry for my ugglish language. For e.g. systemd documentation is complete and well written.
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• 1481[14:30:36] <Abdullah> i
• 1482[14:30:46] <Abdullah> hmm
• 1483[14:30:47] <mfm_> recently had some narrow corners with networking [host - > kvm guests connections] and DB related stuff.
• 1484[14:32:05] <Knaldgas> Encryption of smaller directories, which are used infrequently - Which package to use? - ecryptfs, encfs or ?
• 1485[14:32:29] <Abdullah> why not gpg Knaldgas
• 1486[14:33:19] <Knaldgas> gpg for full dir?
• 1487[14:33:22] <NetTerminalGene> Abdullah, are you from turkey?
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• 1490[14:34:06] <Abdullah> tar cvf output.tar dir/* ; gpg -er 'your gpg uid' output.tar ; rm -rf dir output.tar
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• 1492[14:34:22] <Abdullah> NetTerminalGene: na, I'm from Pakistan
• 1493[14:35:02] <Abdullah> I think you're confused with github.com/Abdullah ;-)
• 1494[14:35:38] <NetTerminalGene> your nick's spelling is same in turkish. that's why i wondered
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• 1496[14:36:13] <Abdullah> NetTerminalGene: its arabic name
• 1497[14:36:22] <NetTerminalGene> i know
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• 1500[14:37:10] <Abdullah> we Muslims always have name like this. dunno if Muslims in other parts of world have names in their languages or not.
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• 1502[14:38:34] <Knaldgas> Ahh, got it - I think I would prefer that each directory is encrypted with a fixed passphrase, and access to the dir/files are granted using the passphrase, but things should get encrypted more or less automatically
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• 1506[14:40:28] <Abdullah> Knaldgas: That's also possible with gpg.
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• 1508[14:40:47] <Knaldgas> Oh?
• 1509[14:40:52] <blackflow> Knaldgas: why not full disk encryption with LUKS? fastest, easiest, most robust.
• 1510[14:40:53] <NetTerminalGene> Abdullah, we use in our languages
• 1511[14:41:03] * Knaldgas is reading up on gpg
• 1512[14:41:19] <Abdullah> !gnupg
• 1513[14:41:19] <dpkg> [gpg] GNU Privacy Guard (GnuPG, GPG) is free public-key encryption program, an alternative to <PGP>. Packaged for Debian as gnupg and gnupg2. replaced-url
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• 1515[14:41:53] <Knaldgas> blackflow, in this case, I would like to have different encryption keys for different directories
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• 1517[14:42:19] <blackflow> Knaldgas: why? that's rather unusual
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• 1520[14:42:50] <Johann> Knaldgas: what is your use case? backups ?
• 1521[14:42:52] <Abdullah> I use complete encrypted installations. only /boot is unencrypted which only contains initrd and vmlinuz and enable secure boot with my own keys
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• 1526[14:43:16] <Knaldgas> Abdullah, I know gpg for indiviual files (and recursive), but wasn't aware of automatically encryption
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• 1528[14:43:24] <Wulf> rant: got it working. dhcpcd runs, and it got its own hook system.
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• 1530[14:44:09] <Knaldgas> blackflow, Johann: The ability to allow people to access some folders, given a key, but prevent access to other parts.
• 1531[14:44:13] <rant> Wulf: well, glad you got it figured out.
• 1532[14:44:33] <blackflow> Knaldgas: Linux has quite an extensive permission system to solve that problem. trying to solve it with encryption like this is convoluted, introduces huge overhead in key/passphrase maintenance, and is a reinvention of the permission system wheel.
• 1533[14:45:05] <blackflow> don't forget there's fine-grained ACL subsystem to regular DAC with uids and gids.
• 1534[14:45:16] <rant> thats all not even to mention the technical debt it introduces that could lead to data loss or issues with recovery
• 1535[14:45:23] <Abdullah> Knaldgas: there sticky bit also exist.
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• 1539[14:46:13] <Abdullah> I have most sensitive data in my gdrive and dropbox which is encrypted to my own key
• 1540[14:46:54] <garo> I have a system that sometimes suddenly hangs. I recently noticed that right before it hangs the load averages are starting to rise.
• 1541[14:47:07] <Abdullah> even if you have a good passphrase on gpg keys, its technically no lose if you store the keys themselves on cloud ;-)
• 1542[14:47:37] <garo> Is there already some tool available that periodically checks the loadaverages and once they reach a certain treshold, write down a lot of info of the system to some file ?
• 1543[14:47:46] <blackflow> garo: can you identify the processes that are active during the load average rise?
• 1544[14:47:56] <garo> no, that's the problem
• 1545[14:48:01] <Knaldgas> blackflow, "Digital last will" - In case I get "indisponible" in any way, most data should be accessible to next of kin, but some data should not even be revealed in such cases.
• 1546[14:48:47] <rant> garo: there are system reporting tools that just do that all the time.. and are you maybe running out of memory? Do you have swap?
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• 1549[14:49:19] <garo> Could be, hard to see if it crashes
• 1550[14:49:27] <Abdullah> garo: maybe use some lightweight DE or a WM if you are out of memory
• 1551[14:49:42] <rant> garo: do you use disk encryption? how much ram do you have? what sorts of things are you doing on this system when this happens?
• 1552[14:50:11] <garo> For all i know it's just some program that's broken that continues to malloc, start a forkbom, ...
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• 1557[14:50:20] <rant> load averages are not really reliable indicators of much of anything
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• 1559[14:50:30] <blackflow> garo: well you can whip up a simple shell script that does that. eg something based on ps axu --sort=-pcpu | head -n 20
• 1560[14:50:35] <Johann> Knaldgas: then I'd recommend veracrypt as it's cross platform and fit your use case
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• 1562[14:51:10] <garo> is there a recommended tool that immediately writes down all system info to files once the pressure is too high ?
• 1563[14:51:22] <blackflow> garo: it could also be the disk/filesystem part, you get procs stuck in D state which raises the average load (which is not about cpu use at all), and it finally crashes and reboots, the kernel panicking
• 1564[14:51:46] <blackflow> garo: I don't know if there's any, but like I said, it should be easy to script one up
• 1565[14:51:54] <garo> I was also thinking about writing a script but i assumed it's a problem many people face and something was already available
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• 1567[14:52:24] <blackflow> well there's sar but that won't help you in this particular case to isolate top resource processes at a given time
• 1568[14:52:36] <garo> Could all be valid reasons, but i need to know the reason in order to fix it
• 1569[14:53:08] <blackflow> garo: did you start at the most obvious place: consulting the journal or syslog for entries right before current (re)boot?
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• 1571[14:53:32] <blackflow> note again that if it is a filesystem problem, getting logs out to disk might be an issue as well
• 1572[14:53:33] <garo> Nothing special in /var/log/kern.log or /var/log/syslog
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• 1574[14:54:00] <blackflow> garo: what are the last 10 entries before reboot?
• 1575[14:54:21] <garo> What's the pastebin here ?
• 1576[14:54:35] <rant> garo: what sort of system is this exactly? you failed to answer any of the questions about what you're doing or what sort of resources the machine has
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• 1578[14:54:52] <rant> garo: paste.debian.net or pipe to nc termbin.com 9999
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• 1580[14:55:19] <garo> It's a desktop that's often running for long periods of time
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• 1585[14:55:40] <garo> Strange thing is, it only started when i upgraded the hardware
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• 1589[14:56:04] <garo> But the hardware was used by someone else that never had any problems
• 1590[14:56:05] <Knaldgas> Johann, how come it's not in Debian repo?
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• 1592[14:56:44] <rant> garo: I recommend you try a system monitor applet and read up on sysrq
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• 1596[14:57:29] <Johann> Knaldgas: licencing issue
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• 1598[14:57:37] <rephlexie> garo, what hangs exactly?
• 1599[14:57:42] <brokencycle> Hi! Can someone please kick bugs.debian.org? It throws a 500 on me.
• 1600[14:58:01] <Johann> Knaldgas: see replaced-url
• 1601[14:58:02] <Knaldgas> Hmm, open source, but not free?
• 1602[14:58:02] <judd> Bug replaced-url
• 1603[14:58:06] <garo> replaced-url
• 1604[14:58:12] <garo> s/line/lines/
• 1605[14:58:19] <rant> garo: I also recommend you forget about the load average, its a decaying average since boot in 1, 5, 15 min intervals that merely indicates how many processes are waiting on execution.. where as the rest of the vitals are direct readings that are updated in under a second
• 1606[14:58:55] <garo> I only restarted it now ~14:20
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• 1609[14:59:31] <garo> so it comptely stopped writing to syslog after a while
• 1610[14:59:34] <Knaldgas> Johann, judd: Right, thanks
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• 1612[15:00:42] <garo> But it was not completly dead, when i tried to login, i still got "password:" after entering my username
• 1613[15:00:55] <garo> But didn't receive a shell after that
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• 1620[15:02:39] <garo> Although it stopped writing to syslog after 02:38:45, it was already inaccessible hours before that
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• 1624[15:03:45] <CrazyTux> anyone using debian 9.7 with kde plasma here?
• 1625[15:03:54] <garo> rant: with 'sysrq', do you mean the reisub-trick ? (I used that to reboot)
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• 1628[15:05:39] <blackflow> garo: can you trigger it predictably? do you have persistent journal you can check instead of entries forwarded to syslog?
• 1629[15:06:03] <CrazyTux> how much memory does debian 9 with kde use?
• 1630[15:06:13] <CrazyTux> as compared to xfce and mate?
• 1631[15:06:18] <Abdullah_> so just logged into my pi running stretch. I hope there will be a way to enable testing there too ;-)
• 1632[15:07:08] <blackflow> garo: missing log entries are just making my theory about filesystem/disk issues more likely. again, processes sitting in D state will inflate the avg load
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• 1634[15:07:16] <Abdullah_> I have no issue with old software except I don't have buffers in weechat ;-)
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• 1640[15:09:30] <garo> Hm, good point
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• 1642[15:10:12] <garo> Would it be possible to open a ssh-client and send output to another system if my system is entering this state ?
• 1643[15:10:54] <blackflow> garo: but better enable and check persistent journal. journalctl -b -1 -n 20 should list last 20 entries of previous boot session, after another such crash. this eliminates potential problems in piping to syslog that would result with missing entries there, as it's straight "at the source" of syslog -- the journal
• 1644[15:11:14] <garo> (Now I'm thinking of putting something in cron that monitors /proc/loadavg and sends as much output as possible of dmesg, ps, syslog, ... to another system)
• 1645[15:11:18] <Abdullah_> garo ssh -X remote-system's ip 'journalctl -xe'
• 1646[15:11:56] <blackflow> goberle: no cron. write a shell script with a while loop and `sleep 1` at the end of it (for example), so you have minimal latency between load rising and you logging it
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• 1648[15:12:07] <blackflow> garo: ^^^^ (sorry goberle, mistab)
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• 1650[15:12:44] <blackflow> garo: and yes you can run such a loop remotely over ssh and have it logged to a file locally on the ssh client side
• 1651[15:13:07] <garo> Abdullah_: and the system could still do this once too many processes are going to the waiting-stage because of I/O ?
• 1652[15:13:20] <Abdullah_> cron doesn this job if you set postfix as MTA, you can configure a gmail account with it. I never did it but that's possible
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• 1658[15:15:31] <garo> Ok, enough ideas for now, i'm going to implement and 'hope' it crashes again :-)
• 1659[15:15:42] <garo> thanks everyone
• 1660[15:15:58] <Abdullah> garo: would you mind sharing your system resources info so we couldn better assist you
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• 1662[15:16:23] <garo> No problem
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• 1664[15:16:54] <CrazyTux> how much memory does debian 9.7 with kde plasma use?
• 1665[15:16:55] <garo> (I assume you mean what i receive after it crashes ? )
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• 1667[15:18:15] <blackflow> garo: you're going in cricles. what you need is what has been mentioned several times now. a script that will monitor load avg in a loop and after some arbitrary threshold, output and try to log dmesg and journalctl entries. to avoid disk issues preventing such logging locally, you could run that over ssh yes
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• 1670[15:18:47] <Abdullah> CrazyTux: I never used kde on debian. but I'm sure it will use more than 1GB just to start. ;-)
• 1671[15:19:07] <CrazyTux> ok.
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• 1680[15:23:34] <garo> blackflow: i know, i'm writing something now
• 1681[15:23:35] <Abdullah> replaced-url
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• 1735[15:56:40] <Abdullah> got buffers in my pi after I upgraded to testing. Is weechat2 + available in stretch ?
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• 1743[16:04:12] <ksk> ,v weechat2
• 1744[16:04:13] <judd> No package named 'weechat2' was found in amd64.
• 1745[16:04:19] <ksk> ,v weechat2+
• 1746[16:04:20] <judd> No package named 'weechat2+' was found in amd64.
• 1747[16:04:31] <ksk> Abdullah: "apt-cache search weechat2"
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• 1749[16:04:49] <ksk> ,v weechat
• 1750[16:04:50] <judd> Package: weechat on amd64 -- wheezy: 0.3.8-1+deb7u1; wheezy-security: 0.3.8-1+deb7u3; jessie: 1.0.1-1+deb8u2; jessie-backports: 1.6-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1; stretch: 1.6-1+deb9u2; sid: 1.9-1; stretch-backports: 2.2-1~bpo9+1; buster: 2.3-1; sid: 2.3-1
• 1751[16:05:18] <ksk> Abdullah: so no, version 2.x only available in stretch-backports
• 1752[16:05:44] <ksk> !tell Abdullah about stretch-backports
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• 1805[16:48:35] <frikinz> Hi! Not really specific to #debian but I'll ask :D Anyone could recommend a project management software? For a 1 person project with Gant features. I'll have a look what's available but any suggestion welcome.
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• 1807[16:49:29] <jmcnaught> frikinz: Debian has a redmine package, it might be overkill but it'll fairly easy to use
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• 1810[16:49:49] <n4dir> jmcnaught: so not something like git? If no, not something like that, perhaps citadelle?
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• 1812[16:50:19] <n4dir> else you might head over to wiki.debian.org and search for "leaving the cloud", quite some stuff listed there.
• 1813[16:50:31] <n4dir> damnit, frikinz , not jmcnaught , sorry
• 1814[16:50:41] <frikinz> jmcnaught: thanks. I had actually used it for issue tracking but didn't remember it has that feature
• 1815[16:51:10] <frikinz> project scheduling I meant. Yeah management is a bit vague :)
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• 1943[18:25:20] <storrgie> the root users bashrc is very bleak, you don't get things like bash_completion. is there a convention for copying your own users bashrc upon sudoing into root?
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• 1959[18:34:59] <t3st3r> storrgie> root is administrative user. I guess "conveniences" like autocompletion can play a poor joke.
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• 1961[18:35:29] <t3st3r> should something go wrong with it, root user can do damage or overtake whole thing
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• 1963[18:36:27] <resuni> My root has bash_completion?
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• 1966[18:37:27] <resuni> Yeah, I just checked a few different machines. All of them have bash_completion enabled for root, and I didn't do that.
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• 1970[18:39:18] <t3st3r> Strange, then I maybe missed something.
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• 1972[18:40:11] <resuni> All the machines I checked run Debian/Rasbian 9. Maybe its a default that differs between versions?
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• 1978[18:43:27] <n4dir> not sure if "su" versus "su -" or similar for the latter comes into this.
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• 1980[18:43:51] <resuni> Both worked for me.
• 1981[18:44:00] <n4dir> my idea would be to simply copy the users .bashrc to /root , but i wouldn't just do it, before someone confirms it is not a bad idea
• 1982[18:44:37] <resuni> I wouldn't copy the entire .bashrc to /root. Just the part that enables bash_completion.
• 1983[18:44:38] <n4dir> i don't recall ever running into problems with the default root bashrc though
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• 1985[18:44:53] <n4dir> resuni: yup, good point
• 1986[18:44:56] <BCMM> n4dir: it's a bad idea because bash completion is relatively fragile and unpredictable
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• 1988[18:45:47] <BCMM> quite a lot of bash completion scripts call external binaries. in some cases, the results can even depend on data from remote hosts.
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• 1990[18:45:51] <n4dir> BCMM: #bash recommends against it in general, right?
• 1991[18:45:57] <BCMM> i don't know, i don't really go there
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• 1993[18:46:10] <n4dir> ah. I do go there, but never fully understand ...
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• 1998[18:48:47] <resuni> So bash_completion works for me on root, but I don't know why.
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• 2001[18:48:57] <resuni> None of the files root sources include that functionality.
• 2002[18:49:06] <resuni> None that I can find, at least.
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• 2005[18:50:49] <resuni> For me, root is (indirectly) sourcing /etc/bash.bashrc, but the bash_completion section is commented out. I don't know where the functionality is coming from.
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• 2038[19:07:13] <pragomer> I have to install a bios update for beeing able to install debian on my laptop:
• 2039[19:07:15] <pragomer> replaced-url
• 2040[19:07:23] <pragomer> but this requires an installation of windows
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• 2043[19:07:37] <pragomer> is there any chance to install a bios update from within the bios itself?
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• 2050[19:09:53] <resuni> pragomer: You can try poking around the BIOS to see if there's an interface to do so. Otherwise, probably not.
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• 2053[19:10:18] <resuni> What I've done in this situations is swap the hard drive with a blank one to install Windows on, update the BIOS, then swap the hard drive back.
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• 2057[19:11:23] <pragomer> mm.. you are right.. I think putting a windows10 from usbdrive to it, flashing and erase after that would be the fastest way..
• 2058[19:11:27] <pragomer> thanks...
• 2059[19:11:34] *** Quits: Flewtje_ (~Flewtje@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2060[19:11:34] <pragomer> but its so sad...
• 2061[19:11:40] <resuni> Yeah, it is.
• 2062[19:11:48] <resuni> This is actually one thing I check before I buy a laptop.
• 2063[19:12:02] <resuni> Platform-dependent BIOS updates are stupid.
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• 2065[19:12:35] <pragomer> it is stupid. I myself own a tuxedo computer laptop..
• 2066[19:12:59] <pragomer> this is just for my mum, she got this acer notebook as a gift.. thats why I have to deal withit..
• 2067[19:13:22] <resuni> Ah, been there.
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• 2119[19:32:46] <Myros> Hello, i'm currently in an initramfs busybox thingy shell, i cant boot. I renamed my vg, and update(d)-grub. I've edited fstab to match the new vg's name.if i try to unlock my luke_crypt partition it gives me an unknown fstype error. If i try blkid it shows me the disk. If i try cryptsetup open /... It says the device already exist. What can i do?
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• 2165[19:58:41] <msiism> i'm looking for the current upstream source of `pmount'. the git url i've found on ubuntu's launchpad (git://anonscm.debian.org/git/pmount/pmount.git) turned out to be invalid. also, replaced-url
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• 2167[19:59:36] <Tenkawa> did you do apt-cache show pmount
• 2168[19:59:53] <msiism> Tenkawa: no. let me do that.
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• 2170[20:00:26] <Tenkawa> if you have deb-src source defined in your sources list it should be able to tell you more
• 2171[20:01:02] <msiism> Tenkawa: ok, yes, it teel me where to get the debian source package. but that's not the same as the upstream source, is it?
• 2172[20:01:09] <msiism> s/teel/tells
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• 2175[20:01:38] <msiism> let me check my sources.list
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• 2177[20:02:22] <Tenkawa> I'm trying to remember how to track down the upstream too.. its been forever
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• 2179[20:03:00] <msiism> Tenkawa: as far as i can see, apt-cache show doesn't show it.
• 2180[20:03:10] <Tenkawa> mine does
• 2181[20:03:22] <Tenkawa> Package: pmount
• 2182[20:03:23] <Tenkawa> Source: pmount (0.9.23-3)
• 2183[20:03:23] <Tenkawa> Version: 0.9.23-3+b2
• 2184[20:03:26] *** Joins: Darcidride_ (~Darcidrid@replaced-ip)
• 2185[20:03:49] <msiism> yes, but i'm looking for a source code repository.
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• 2189[20:04:15] <Tenkawa> do you have both deb and deb-src in sources.lst?
• 2190[20:04:30] *** Joins: m0Lzixs3m0qy (~root@replaced-ip)
• 2191[20:04:36] <Tenkawa> er .list
• 2192[20:04:41] <msiism> Tenkawa: i do.
• 2193[20:04:50] <Tenkawa> have you run apt-get update
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• 2198[20:05:44] <Tenkawa> yeah it let me grab a source package no problem
• 2199[20:05:50] <Tenkawa> just tested it
• 2200[20:06:13] <Tenkawa> oh
• 2201[20:06:21] <Tenkawa> it had to grab it from git
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• 2203[20:06:53] <Tenkawa> apt-get source pmount is not working for you>
• 2204[20:06:54] <Tenkawa> er ?
• 2205[20:07:02] <msiism> Tenkawa: `apt-cache showsrc pmount' is beginning to give me clues.
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• 2207[20:07:13] <msiism> Tenkawa: i'm not trying to download the deb-src package.
• 2208[20:07:26] *** Joins: LeFnorZ (~FnorZ@replaced-ip)
• 2209[20:07:32] <msiism> what i want is "pmount_0.9.23.orig.tar.bz2"
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• 2211[20:07:43] <Tenkawa> well it will have the original tar in it
• 2212[20:07:45] <msiism> or, does the source package include that?
• 2213[20:07:51] <Tenkawa> yes
• 2214[20:07:54] <msiism> ok, i see. then that's the way to go.
• 2215[20:07:58] <msiism> thanks
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• 2220[20:08:23] <Tenkawa> 349819 Jun 16 2010 pmount_0.9.23.orig.tar.bz2
• 2221[20:08:28] <Tenkawa> np
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• 2223[20:09:08] <Tenkawa> good luck
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• 2228[20:14:38] <Neo_> hi how do I install meson fromm testing or unstable?
• 2229[20:14:43] <Neo_> the main repo has a hugely outdated version
• 2230[20:14:46] <Neo_> that nothing supports
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• 2232[20:15:08] <Neo_> fucks sake
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• 2234[20:15:42] <Myros> How can i grep for a sting anywhere at my disk and have the filepath returned?
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• 2237[20:16:48] <msiism> Myros: are you sure you really want to do that? what are you trying to do, actually?
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• 2240[20:17:31] <Myros> Hello, i'm currently in an initramfs busybox thingy shell, i cant boot. I renamed my vg, and update(d)-grub. I've edited fstab to match the new vg's name.if i try to unlock my luke_crypt partition it gives me an unknown fstype error. If i try blkid it shows me the disk. If i try cryptsetup open /... It says the device already exist. What can i do?
• 2241[20:17:47] <Myros> I try to find every old reference to thevg name
• 2242[20:17:51] *** Joins: treehug88 (~textual@replaced-ip)
• 2243[20:17:54] <Myros> And change it to the new one
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• 2246[20:18:30] <Myros> I found out that everything i do in initramfs gets deleted after a new boot, so i just try out stuff now
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• 2251[20:19:03] <Tenkawa> Myros: did the kernel or grub change?
• 2252[20:19:12] <Myros> The vgname did change
• 2253[20:19:28] <Tenkawa> you will need to make a new initrd
• 2254[20:19:34] <Myros> And i was told to update-grub, but it didnt work
• 2255[20:19:49] <Myros> Now i cant boot
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• 2257[20:20:04] <Tenkawa> do you not have your old one?
• 2258[20:20:48] <Tenkawa> you should be able to edit the cmdline and tell it which vg to use
• 2259[20:20:54] <Myros> How?
• 2260[20:21:04] <Tenkawa> well you saifd you use luks though didnt you
• 2261[20:21:11] <Myros> Yes
• 2262[20:21:14] <Tenkawa> so its encrypted
• 2263[20:21:21] <Myros> Yes
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• 2265[20:21:38] <Myros> But i have the password
• 2266[20:21:41] <Tenkawa> Its been years since I've fixed one of those
• 2267[20:21:47] <Myros> :-)
• 2268[20:22:57] <hassoon> (-:
• 2269[20:22:59] <Tenkawa> you tried talking to a luks resource on irc?
• 2270[20:23:07] <Myros> No
• 2271[20:23:12] <Myros> Whats that?
• 2272[20:23:12] <Tenkawa> not sure where they hang out
• 2273[20:24:34] <Tenkawa> The Linux Unified Key Setup (LUKS) is a disk encryption specification
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• 2275[20:24:51] <tharkun> Myros: grep thevg **/* you will get the filename which in turn you can search for. Be prepared to wait for a looooong time. Youw will be shooting your foot but then if you want such thing.
• 2276[20:24:53] <Tenkawa> thats the actual meaning of the acronym
• 2277[20:25:53] <Myros> @tharkun i currenty see no better way
• 2278[20:26:01] <tharkun> !@
• 2279[20:26:01] <dpkg> @ is used to separate the username from the hostname in an email address, to denote channel operators on IRC, and to direct comments to particular users in some web forums. It is NOT used to direct comments on IRC; use "name: ..." instead of "@name ...".
• 2280[20:26:04] <Tenkawa> tharkun: I think his kernel is missing necessary components to decrypyt and unlock everything it needs
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• 2282[20:26:34] <Myros> The thing is unlocked and mounted
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• 2284[20:26:40] <Myros> But with a new name
• 2285[20:26:56] <tharkun> Myros: I told you you are shooting yourself on the foot listen to Tenkawa happens to have the right information.
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• 2287[20:27:26] <Myros> I listen to him
• 2288[20:27:49] <Tenkawa> these keys get real trickt
• 2289[20:27:52] <Tenkawa> er tricky
• 2290[20:28:42] <Tenkawa> if he could just get it up and running and somehow vgrename
• 2291[20:28:52] <Tenkawa> to put everything back
• 2292[20:29:25] <msiism> you could probably do that using a live system, couldn't you?
• 2293[20:29:27] <Tenkawa> that would get him back to working order but I'm not sure what state its in
• 2294[20:29:38] <Tenkawa> msiism: likely
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• 2345[21:01:33] <ghormoon> hi, any ideas for image viewer with scriptable hotkeys?
• 2346[21:02:32] <ghormoon> (so i can scroll through a folder and "tag" photos by ln -s to the respective tag folders)
• 2347[21:03:26] *** Quits: mitskevich (~mitskevic@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 2348[21:03:29] <msiism> ghormoon: `feh' might suit your needs.
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• 2350[21:05:08] <ghormoon> thanks, I'll try
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• 2410[21:45:13] <ghormoon> what am I missing if I can normally open link (eg with okular), but cp -L says no such file or directory if i try to copy it?
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• 2417[21:49:23] <msiism> ghormoon: looks like your missing the link destination then
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• 2420[21:50:00] <msiism> ghormoon: meaning: the file the link points to does not exist
• 2421[21:50:21] <ghormoon> well, why it exists for other apps then?
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• 2424[21:50:28] <ghormoon> e. i can view the photo
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• 2426[21:50:37] <ghormoon> by runnig okular on the folder with links
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• 2430[21:51:27] <Myros> What works best? Cinamon gnome kde lxde mate or xfce?
• 2431[21:51:39] <jhutchins> ghormoon: paste the actual command you're using.
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• 2434[21:52:13] <jhutchins> Myros: Text console works best.
• 2435[21:52:13] <msiism> Myros: none of those. use emacs. :P
• 2436[21:52:21] <Myros> Lol
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• 2438[21:52:43] <msiism> Myros: it really depends on what you're looking for.
• 2439[21:52:53] <Myros> Privacy os
• 2440[21:53:08] <msiism> Myros: what does that mean?
• 2441[21:53:33] <jhutchins> Myros: They all have their good and bad points. Gnome is pretty well integrated, but makes customization difficult. KDE is a hot mess that has managed to get more complicated than gnome and breaks a lot. lxde and xfce lack some of the integration and features, but try not to get in the way.
• 2442[21:54:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1539
• 2443[21:54:16] <jhutchins> Myros: Cinnamon is not as well devloped or maintained as the mainstream desktops.
• 2444[21:54:38] <Myros> So gnome is pretty stable?
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• 2446[21:54:56] <msiism> Myros: i'd never bet on that...
• 2447[21:54:59] <jhutchins> Myros: Your choice of a DE is unlikely to affect your security. You are slightly more vulnerable in a GUI than plain text.
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• 2452[21:55:30] <Myros> I need a gui, i dont wanna browse via w3m
• 2453[21:55:47] <msiism> Myros: well, you'll probably just need to try them out
• 2454[21:55:53] <__m4ch1n3__> openbox-session <3
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• 2456[21:56:25] <__m4ch1n3__> + fbanel
• 2457[21:56:32] <__m4ch1n3__> *fbpanel
• 2458[21:56:32] <msiism> Myros: some people i know work well with xfce.
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• 2463[21:58:03] <Myros> Hm, ok then i will try out
• 2464[21:58:11] <Myros> Thanks to you all
• 2465[21:58:27] <__m4ch1n3__> xfce installs tons desktop enviroment crap, eaven lxde does
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• 2467[21:58:50] <msiism> __m4ch1n3__: define crap.
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• 2469[21:59:08] <__m4ch1n3__> automatic mount of new usb flash drives e.g
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• 2472[21:59:18] <msiism> __m4ch1n3__: it's a full-blown DE, what do you expect?
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• 2480[22:00:14] <ghormoon> cp -L ./telegram/* ~/vmshared/dispose/telegram/
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• 2483[22:00:29] <ghormoon> nevermind, in meantime I hacked it around
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• 2486[22:00:50] <ghormoon> maybe it doesn't like the links to be relative to PWD and tries to make them relative to their location
• 2487[22:01:02] <__m4ch1n3__> miss its exactly what i would expect from full de
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• 2490[22:01:25] <msiism> ghormoon: or maybe './' is kind of a typo...
• 2491[22:01:28] <__m4ch1n3__> openbox + fbpanel + pcmanfm (filemanger)
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• 2493[22:01:45] <msiism> __m4ch1n3__: ok, what's that?
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• 2496[22:02:00] <__m4ch1n3__> + lxterminal
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• 2500[22:02:39] <ghormoon> msiism: nope
• 2501[22:03:03] <ghormoon> just overly explicit :D
• 2502[22:03:38] <msiism> ghormoon: right
• 2503[22:03:40] <__m4ch1n3__> openbox is a super lightweight window manager, fbpanel is a desktop panel with task bar and notification area
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• 2506[22:04:24] <smrtz> Hey guys, I'm trying to script adding the microsoft dotnet repo, but I'm getting an error I don't quite know how to debug. Here's replaced-url
• 2507[22:04:29] <msiism> __m4ch1n3__: yeah, i know. i'm using openbox, without a panel and taskbar.
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• 2509[22:05:08] <smrtz> Would someone mind taking a look and helping me out please?
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• 2511[22:05:39] <n4dir> openbox isn't lighter than any other window manager, as far i can tell.
• 2512[22:05:45] <ghormoon> i think i should fix the paths to be relative to the location of the link
• 2513[22:06:02] <msiism> smrtz: i'm looking, if that help
• 2514[22:06:05] <msiism> s
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• 2522[22:09:14] <__m4ch1n3__> adwaita dark theme + openbox is pretty neat
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• 2525[22:10:12] <smrtz> msiism: Thanks!
• 2526[22:10:13] <smrtz> Any ideas?
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• 2528[22:11:07] <__m4ch1n3__> replaced-url
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• 2530[22:11:37] <__m4ch1n3__> the whole thing has below 1% cpu usage on my machine
• 2531[22:11:44] <msiism> smrtz: maybe pasting the contents of the repo list you've added will help.
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• 2535[22:15:02] <msiism> smrtz: do you have apt-transport-https installed?
• 2536[22:15:17] <smrtz> msiism: Yep.
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• 2541[22:17:26] <msiism> smrtz: i guess something is wrom with the sources list file from ms
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• 2543[22:18:01] <smrtz> Weird, alright, I'll try and get it another way. Thanks!!
• 2544[22:18:03] <msiism> s/wrom/wrong
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• 2546[22:18:31] <msiism> smrtz: i mean, i can only guess. i don't have that file.
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• 2557[22:22:53] <nickgaw> Hi, After installing kernel-package and build-essneital the latest kernel.org sources gives me the error that include/openssl/bio.h does not exist what package should I install? I am totally blind and want to test out the latest speakup screen reader which is why I am wanting to compile the latest kernel sources.
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• 2560[22:24:29] <__m4ch1n3__> nickgaw, libssl-dev
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• 2564[22:25:59] <__m4ch1n3__> for openssl/bio.h
• 2565[22:26:46] <__m4ch1n3__> but i assuem the kernel will have lot other build dependencies
• 2566[22:26:51] <__m4ch1n3__> *assume
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• 2568[22:28:29] <nickgaw> and I was wanting to build the git samba sources for testing but python-config 3 does not exist in debian and distutils is either broken or not installed properly and the apt-get build-dep samba did not work when configure was ran as it did not install everything for the configuration to be completed successfully why is this as I thought that this is what it was doing?
• 2569[22:29:48] <__m4ch1n3__> python3-config ?
• 2570[22:30:19] <__m4ch1n3__> apt-get build-dep "packagename"
• 2571[22:30:45] <nickgaw> yes but why did the samba deps not install that?
• 2572[22:31:48] <__m4ch1n3__> beacause dependencies != build dependencies
• 2573[22:32:13] <__m4ch1n3__> to install everything you need to compile current running kernel from source
• 2574[22:32:16] <__m4ch1n3__> apt-get build-dep linux-image-$(uname -r)
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• 2576[22:32:58] <nickgaw> ok but what about the samba dependencies?
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• 2578[22:33:40] <__m4ch1n3__> apt-get build-dep samba
• 2579[22:33:43] <__m4ch1n3__> but
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• 2581[22:34:35] <__m4ch1n3__> why do you want build it from source?
• 2582[22:35:09] <__m4ch1n3__> ifyou can download already build samba from debian repo?
• 2583[22:35:45] <__m4ch1n3__> guess you are not going to edit the sourcecode and hack new functions into samba
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• 2587[22:38:02] <nickgaw> just to test out the building process of samba.
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• 2605[22:45:13] <__m4ch1n3__> compiling executable binaries from source are basics of programming languages like c/c++... sure you can execute the make script and compile some code you dont understand but why?
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• 2612[22:48:44] <nickgaw> I have compiled lots of other programs like tools for braille displays with no issues but samba is giving me issues.
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• 2636[23:11:55] <__m4ch1n3__> nickgaw, if you want compile everything maybe switch to gentoo, its an source only linux distro. every package you install is compiled from source on your machine :D
• 2637[23:12:28] <__m4ch1n3__> the repository has only source packages
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• 2639[23:13:25] <nickgaw> yes but I was just wanting to test out a few packages not compile everything from source have you ever built samba from the git sources?
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• 2643[23:14:30] <Zelink> "Here the vulnerability is that the HTTP reply can just claim a hash and cause apt to assume the given hash is correct without calculating it itself. A huge mistake that defeats the package signing." <-- Is this really true?
• 2644[23:14:49] <Zelink> Why on Earth would APT be designed to not calculate the hash?
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• 2649[23:17:06] <__m4ch1n3__> no but maybe try the last release/stable branch from samba git and not current development branch
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• 2655[23:18:18] <__m4ch1n3__> master branch is usually the current development branch on gits
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• 2659[23:19:16] <__m4ch1n3__> replaced-url
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• 2662[23:20:13] <Zelink> ?
• 2663[23:20:47] <__m4ch1n3__> every package is pgp signed
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• 2668[23:22:24] <t3st3r> __m4ch1n3__> but i assuem the kernel will have lot other build dependencies <- kernel is relatively easy bo build, btw.
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• 2670[23:22:56] <t3st3r> there're far worse programs around
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• 2673[23:25:34] <BCMM> yeah, the kernel is the one part of the system that isn't particularly closely tied to anything else...
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• 2677[23:26:41] <__m4ch1n3__> replaced-url
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• 2679[23:27:05] <__m4ch1n3__> replaced-url
• 2680[23:28:37] <__m4ch1n3__> if 4.10-rc makes trubles try one version below
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• 2684[23:31:05] <BCMM> Zelink: if you're talking about the recent apt vulnerability that's... not exactly how it works
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• 2690[23:34:24] <BCMM> Zelink: by design, apt *does* calculate the hash, in its http worker process. however, somebody found a bug that allows an attacker to trick the http process in to reporting the wrong hash
• 2691[23:34:51] <nickgaw> Can that be fixed?
• 2692[23:35:13] <Zelink> I see.
• 2693[23:35:48] <BCMM> nickgaw: it already has been
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• 2695[23:36:44] <BCMM> nickgaw: it was a failure to sanitise responses from mirrors. basically, you can give it a really long redirect URL, including line breaks and other special characters
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• 2698[23:37:16] <nickgaw> When I do apt-get build-dep linux-image and the version 4.19 and the other numbers no dependencies are found is this a bug or what should I do I don't want headers but things like gcc versions and other tools and libraries to build the latest version of the kernel and have build-essential installed?
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• 2701[23:37:56] <BCMM> and http will report that redirected URL back to apt, complete with the line breaks and so on, allowing you to spoof the rest of http's output to apt
• 2702[23:38:29] <BCMM> nickgaw: it sounds like you already have what you need to build the kernel
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• 2706[23:41:38] <nickgaw> ok the kernel is now compiling.
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• 2711[23:42:27] <__m4ch1n3__> linux-image-$(uname -r)
• 2712[23:42:51] <__m4ch1n3__> for current running kernel version build dependencies
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• 2714[23:43:19] <__m4ch1n3__> diffrent versions diffrent dependencies ...
• 2715[23:43:31] <nickgaw> Just wondering are there any laptop companies that sell Debian based laptops that are at least an i7 or faster as mine is around 5 years old and once it dies as I have a laptop for both linux and windows because of accessibility reasons I don't like doing more then one operating system on one system?
• 2716[23:43:33] *** Quits: towo` (~towo@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2717[23:43:43] <ryouma> ghormoon: yes feh is the best for that
• 2718[23:44:22] <BCMM> nickgaw: you want to buy it with debian pre-installed, right?
• 2719[23:45:12] <nickgaw> well at least Debian compatible where I hopefully won't need the non-free firmware as this system I did.
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• 2723[23:45:47] <__m4ch1n3__> that looks interesting replaced-url
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• 2725[23:47:11] <__m4ch1n3__> pureos seems to be an debian derivate
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• 2730[23:47:41] <BCMM> nickgaw: no non-free *firmware* is tricky. (no non-free drivers is fairly easy, though. even with some off-the-shelf systems now)
• 2731[23:47:53] <nickgaw> I am not against the non-free firmware but would like not to always have to remember to download it.
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• 2733[23:48:27] <BCMM> nickgaw: how often are you reinstalling debian?
• 2734[23:48:34] <__m4ch1n3__> replaced-url
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• 2737[23:48:59] <__m4ch1n3__> daily
• 2738[23:49:00] <__m4ch1n3__> :D
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• 2742[23:49:29] <nickgaw> usually when a major version is released I have /home on another partition but mainly do the installation to test the accessibility of the installation but this is not really a requirement.
• 2743[23:49:56] <BCMM> __m4ch1n3__: that makes the installation easier, but don't you still need to actually enable non-free and install firmware-linux-nonfree if you want it to work once you're not running the installer any more?
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• 2745[23:50:28] <nickgaw> apt did that for me as I have priority set to low.
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• 2747[23:50:46] <__m4ch1n3__> well on my laptop wifi runs outofthebox after install from firmware-image
• 2748[23:50:59] <__m4ch1n3__> non-free firware laptop
• 2749[23:51:03] <__m4ch1n3__> non-free firware wifi
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• 2751[23:51:12] <__m4ch1n3__> *firm
• 2752[23:51:14] <__m4ch1n3__> omg
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• 2755[23:52:22] <__m4ch1n3__> in the non-free image contrib and non-free repositories are already enabled
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• 2759[23:53:58] <__m4ch1n3__> but think it prompts at installation if you want include non-free firmware
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• 2765[23:56:49] <__m4ch1n3__> actually firmware is opensource but its bundled with other non-free of same vendor
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• 2767[23:57:00] <__m4ch1n3__> in one package :/
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