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• 2[00:04:15] <nyuszika7h> I have proc mounted with hidepid=2 and I cannot see my own ssh-agent processes, any idea why?
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• 4[00:04:23] <nyuszika7h> replaced-url
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• 6[00:04:54] <nyuszika7h> Debian 10.8, fstab entry: proc /proc proc defaults,hidepid=2 0 0
• 7[00:05:28] <nyuszika7h> proc on /proc type proc (rw,relatime,hidepid=2)
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• 14[00:15:17] <Budd> Is there an easy way to find all installed packages that depend on package P?
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• 20[00:18:35] <Mister00X> Budd: apt rdepends <package> --installed
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• 22[00:19:18] <Budd> thanks!
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• 40[00:28:54] <pims_> Hello, on GIT, is it possible to have a GLOBAL option to download and only have the latest version by default for all cloned repositories?
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• 43[00:33:17] <phogg> pims_: maybe ask in #git
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• 45[00:35:26] <pims_> phogg, obviously! :) Thank you for your answer!
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• 76[01:14:36] <rudds> ratrace: missed your comment earlier about container toolsets, what else do you recommend besides LXC?
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• 79[01:17:05] <rudds> would like to try LXD but i'd rather not deal with snaps if i can help it
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• 88[01:30:09] <oxek> rudds: why not docker?
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• 111[01:57:19] <rudds> oxek: i'm used to the "every container is an entire machine" approach from BSD jails and kinda prefer to stick with it
• 112[01:57:41] <oxek> rudds: I do that with docker
• 113[01:57:41] <rudds> not sure how well Docker can replicate that though i know it's geared more toward application containers
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• 116[01:58:11] <oxek> in fact, I'm told I'm using docker wrong, for exactly that reason
• 117[01:58:19] <rudds> to be fair, LXC has been a real hassle to configure and get working in the VMs i've tried it in so far
• 118[01:58:41] <rudds> still haven't managed to get external mounts working in unprivileged containers yet
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• 127[02:10:27] <dasunt> For a VM, no desktop environment, minimal things installed, what would be a good minimum amount of memory? 512MB? 1GB?
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• 129[02:11:21] <sney> depends on what it's hosting, but I have a few with 512 that are fine. I wouldn't go below that unless I was sure I'd never run out.
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• 134[02:16:06] <dasunt> sney: Thanks, that's what I was thinking.
• 135[02:16:22] <sney> np
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• 137[02:17:47] <dasunt> I tried intalling with 512MB, and the installer did say it was considered a low memory device. Which makes me feel old. ;)
• 138[02:18:00] <sney> haha!
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• 141[02:18:58] * dvs has become a low memory device
• 142[02:21:36] <sney> oof tell me about it
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• 151[02:35:10] <dvs> I would, if I could remember it.
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• 159[02:48:04] <SamuelMarks> hi
• 160[02:48:20] <dvs> why?
• 161[02:48:22] <SamuelMarks> If I want to upgrade everything without user-intervention or reboots, how do I? - replaced-url
• 162[02:48:36] <SamuelMarks> Is livepatch the answer?
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• 164[02:50:30] <dannylee> su -l apt-get update
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• 169[02:55:26] <SamuelMarks> dannnylee - yeah but without a reboot I mean
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• 171[02:56:10] <terabyte> in this table replaced-url
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• 173[02:57:11] <sney> LTS is considered separate from the regular debian security team
• 174[02:59:19] <terabyte> do you still receive patches? There's this company called ubiquity that make networking kit and they're using 9 Stretch on their cloud-key controllers even tho it's past the security support date, isn't that a bit dodgy? or is it fine on account of the LTS support being there so they're still getting security updates?
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• 176[03:01:25] <sney> ubnt is presumably doing their own security support for their own devices, outside of what debian promises. but yes as long as their stretch images had stretch/updates configured, then they're still supported for as long as stretch-lts is.
• 177[03:02:09] <terabyte> thanks
• 178[03:03:02] <sney> np
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• 230[05:33:40] <Chakka_> Deep networking Q: Does anyone know if Debian linux creates a new, fake "MAC Address" when you create a a BOND0 interface? Or do the packets outbound from the BOND0 randomly use the team members' MAC addresses?
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• 232[05:38:39] <mrjpaxton[m]> Chakka_: You might ask in ##networking - I am not sure if Debian will behave any differently when creating a bridge or a bond, assuming you are using Debian's interfaces. If you are using systemd or standard iproute2 utilities to make a bond, such as `ip link add bond0 type bond`, I'd expect them to work the same on any distro.
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• 246[05:56:56] <edlou> question
• 247[05:57:21] <edlou> replaced-url
• 248[05:57:40] <edlou> or will netinst still pull in the deps like xfce-DC-1 iso ?
• 249[05:58:18] <SponiX> edlou: netinstall is bare as hell by default. it will be command line only unless you tell it otherwise
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• 251[05:58:52] <edlou> SponiX: ok, and if i plan on just using a few tools, never looking for a DE or anything, i can just build off the netinst ?
• 252[05:59:04] <edlou> im trying to virtualize, space is limited, the 300mb saved will help a lot lol
• 253[05:59:26] <SponiX> edlou: yes, you can "build" off of the netinstall base as needed
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• 256[06:00:51] <Chakka_> mrjpaxton[m]: thank you -I'll look at the ##networking channel
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• 260[06:05:34] <mrjpaxton[m]> Chakka_: Wish I could help more. There are ways to run shell scripts in if-pre-up.d and if-post-up.d, or just use `pre-up` and `up` if you would like to change or assign a new MAC address to an interface. A good manpage to read is always `man interfaces`. However, there are quite a fair amount of undocumented options that interfaces can do.
• 261[06:06:21] <mrjpaxton[m]> Sorry, I mean "if-up.d". There is no "if-post-up.d".
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• 263[06:07:38] <Chakka_> mrjpaxton[m]: I found the answer here: replaced-url
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• 265[06:11:14] <mrjpaxton[m]> Yeah, I was briefly looking at that, but I must have missed it. I'm no networking expert, but I have messed with bonds and bridges before, since I'm quite adverse to using NetworkManager, even on my personal computers. :p
• 266[06:12:04] <Chakka_> mrjpaxton[m]: agreed - I usualy remove it and the avahi-manager and go with static /etc/network/interfaces or interfaces.d/
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• 269[06:13:25] <mrjpaxton[m]> Every part of my networking is configured with systemd and wpa-supplicant/hostap, even the custom router. Though, PPPoE is using `pppd` for my Internet, which is a fantastic project. It would take some effort to put PPP support into systemd. Lol.
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• 272[06:14:08] <mrjpaxton[m]> Granted, I'm using the buster-backports of systemd, which has a lot more useful options for networkctl.
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• 276[06:16:27] <mrjpaxton[m]> I was, and still sort of am, a really big fan if interfaces in the past though. :p
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• 293[06:38:47] <CANFULLY> $ airodump-ng -c 1 — bssid 80:AD:16:A7:A9:3E -w waitt wlan0mon why isn't this command running at all?
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• 295[06:40:39] <Voldenet> `isn't running` is not very descriptive
• 296[06:41:09] <CANFULLY> this is what the tool outputs: "airodump-ng --help" for help.
• 297[06:41:23] <SponiX> seems you should look at --help :)
• 298[06:42:17] <CANFULLY> i did there is no -c command lol
• 299[06:42:29] <CANFULLY> or option
• 300[06:42:48] <SponiX> that might be part of your issue then
• 301[06:43:09] <CANFULLY> equivalent working command?
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• 303[06:45:36] <jmcnaught> CANFULLY: maybe it's the character between '-c 1' and 'bssid', the '—'. What is that?
• 304[06:45:37] <CANFULLY> oh actually man shows it has that option not --help
• 305[06:45:49] <n4dir> man airodump-ng contains -c . There probably is more than just one how-to about airodump out there, say at youtube
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• 347[07:50:04] <jelly> ,v curl
• 348[07:50:05] <judd> Package: curl on amd64 -- jessie: 7.38.0-4+deb8u11; jessie-security: 7.38.0-4+deb8u16; stretch: 7.52.1-5+deb9u10; stretch-proposed-updates: 7.52.1-5+deb9u10; stretch-security: 7.52.1-5+deb9u10; buster: 7.64.0-4+deb10u1; buster-security: 7.64.0-4+deb10u1; bullseye: 7.74.0-1.1; sid: 7.74.0-1.1
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• 356[07:59:35] <tsujp> How can I get a new IP while on the installer, current lease botched out and I have no networking
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• 372[08:04:50] <tsujp> hmm doesnt seem that using wireless is an option during install
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• 380[08:10:37] <MWM> having trouble with the rtl8125 still. I installed the firmware package and configured /etc/network/interfaces, but still no love
• 381[08:11:12] <MWM> ip addr doesnt see anyting besides loopback, no ethernet at all
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• 406[08:42:37] <ratrace> rudds: system-nspawn is very good, part of systemd so you don't need additional deps. There's LXD that superseded LXC. There's docker. There's podman, RedHat's thingy, very convenient esp the building tools. Avail in Bullseye.
• 407[08:42:57] <ratrace> I presonally prefer nspawn, when containers are needed.
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• 410[08:45:47] <ratrace> MWM: what does dmesg -P "eth|8125" say?
• 411[08:46:33] * jelly offers a pipe and a grep -E
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• 413[08:46:58] <ratrace> lolyeah :) dmesg | grep -P "eth|8125" or -E
• 414[08:47:04] <ratrace> wheresmycoffee
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• 417[08:49:25] <MWM> not on the machine atm. Just trying to research what my next steps should be.
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• 419[08:50:24] <MWM> I havent had new-ish hardware in years. Not used to stuff that doesnt "just work"
• 420[08:50:43] <ratrace> MWM: pretty much that which would show if the kernel sees it, knows which module to load, loads it and/or has issues with any of those steps
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• 424[08:54:12] <ratrace> MWM: realtek is called realcrap in these parts. seems like either it works flawlessly (like the r8169 I have on a machine), or it doesnt at all and/or requires dkms drivers.
• 425[08:54:22] <ratrace> you know it's gonna be trouble if it requires dkms :)
• 426[08:55:56] <MWM> I dont think Ive seen a desktop mobo that uses a different NIC in a while. Ive seen laptops use intel ..
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• 431[08:59:52] <MWM> well thanks again. I will see if dmesg shows anything usefull when I get back. hopefully between that and a search engine I wont have to stop back in later.
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• 447[09:22:46] <evilbug> how would i be able to use a wildcard to install a bunch of packages with apt?
• 448[09:23:49] <n4dir> apt-get install somepattern* ; wouldn't work?
• 449[09:24:04] <evilbug> nope.
• 450[09:24:30] <n4dir> i seem to recall it works with "remove", but i only use that every other year
• 451[09:24:33] <n4dir> damnit then
• 452[09:24:37] <evilbug> i ran apt install php8.0-* and i get an error saying that php8.0-* does not exist.
• 453[09:25:08] <evilbug> meaning it's not reading the asterisk as a wildcard.
• 454[09:26:15] <ratrace> this sounds like an XY problem. what do you want to install? there's metapackages that pull in all the required deps
• 455[09:26:55] <evilbug> there are a bunch of php packages and the meta php8.0 package doesn't install everything by default.
• 456[09:27:15] <evilbug> i'd still have to either manually install everything or make a script.
• 457[09:28:29] <n4dir> hmm ... seems to work here with php7.3*. well. beyond me
• 458[09:28:32] <ratrace> I fail to imagine when you'd like to install php* as the modules _should_ be installed only if needed. also, 8.0 is not even packaged in debian yet (except in experimental, but I don't count that), so things might change a lot
• 459[09:29:13] <evilbug> i added an 8.0 repo.
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• 461[09:29:31] <ratrace> Sury's?
• 462[09:29:35] <evilbug> yeah.
• 463[09:29:46] <ratrace> just keep in mind a lot of PHP apps are NOT yet 8.0 compatible.
• 464[09:30:02] <ratrace> and you definitely do NOT want to wildcard install stuff. be very specific and pull in only what's strictly required.
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• 466[09:30:14] <evilbug> i'm doing this on my dev machine.
• 467[09:30:36] <evilbug> ratrace: not working for me with either apt or apt-get.
• 468[09:31:51] <ratrace> evilbug: apt install -s 'php7.3*' wants to pull in everything here on buster
• 469[09:32:14] <n4dir> but runs in conflicts, right? here it does.
• 470[09:32:17] <ratrace> and shows conflicts.... not unexpected. like I said, you don't want to wildcard install things
• 471[09:32:24] <n4dir> ha.
• 472[09:32:45] <ratrace> n4dir: yeah, some packages provide same things and are in either-or relationship
• 473[09:33:21] <evilbug> right.
• 474[09:34:12] <n4dir> whenever i used wildcards with apt-get commands, i usually wanted to get rid of as much of kde or gnome as possible. So a sledgehammer situation anyway. That usually happens every few years. Else the idea doesn't come to my mind.
• 475[09:35:01] <evilbug> yeah, i'm getting errors :(
• 476[09:35:09] <ratrace> n4dir: that's _removing_ and that makes sense. wildcard _installing_ rarely does.
• 477[09:36:23] <n4dir> never really thought about it, but it sure makes sense to me, now that you say it
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• 481[09:40:22] <evilbug> oh well, c'est la vie.
• 482[09:40:54] <evilbug> n4dir: i DO like kde though :)
• 483[09:41:49] <n4dir> oh, i didn't say i don't like it. My devices usually haven't got enough horse power for them (kde or gnome, or even mate and such. xfce usually works)
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• 488[09:46:02] <evilbug> gotcha.
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• 492[09:46:29] <evilbug> i was surprised last year when i gave it a look that it wasn't sluggish at all the way it used to be.
• 493[09:46:29] <tsujp> Friends, with `netinst` is there any wifi capability?
• 494[09:46:33] <evilbug> it's actually nice to use.
• 495[09:48:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 986
• 496[09:49:14] <jim> tsujp, yes, the drivers are there. however, the official netinsts are missing non-free firmware, so there is an unofficial netinst which includes them
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• 498[09:50:18] <jim> tsujp, what has you ask?
• 499[09:50:33] <tsujp> trying to install debian on a thinkpad
• 500[09:50:41] <tsujp> wifi only (no usb-ethernet here)
• 501[09:50:51] <jim> what cpu does it have?
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• 503[09:51:56] <tsujp> it's this machine replaced-url
• 504[09:53:27] <jim> that sounds like amd64 arch, yes?
• 505[09:53:39] <tsujp> yeah
• 506[09:53:45] <jim> ok one sec
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• 508[09:54:44] <jim> try this image: replaced-url
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• 510[09:58:04] <budlight> how well does the ryzen work with linux
• 511[09:58:28] <ksk> budlight: eh. twelve?
• 512[09:59:34] <ksk> I run stable with an Ryzen 5 3600. To get temperatures you had to afaik go for backports 5.x Kernel - apart from that its working like a charm
• 513[09:59:50] <ksk> might be you have problems using the "latest" model with stable, not sure.
• 514[10:00:08] <budlight> that will be my next hardware upgrade to ryzen 7
• 515[10:00:08] <ratrace> ksk: oh, even for 3xxx series? I thought the temp issue was only for 5xxx aka zen3 series
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• 517[10:00:25] <ratrace> budlight: but surely to zen3?
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• 519[10:00:48] <ksk> hhm might be its not the case anymore, I kind of just installed kernel from backports to be honest.
• 520[10:01:04] <jim> tsujp, how's it going?
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• 524[10:02:14] <budlight> i wonder if the board i got now will take the ryzen cpu
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• 527[10:06:44] <tsujp> trying out popOS right now got that iso downloaded for if/when I hate it
• 528[10:06:46] <tsujp> jim
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• 543[10:38:31] <jim> tsujp, if you write it to the usb and boot it, after a few steps (before disk partitioning), it will try to establish networking, and it will try to find your net card. so, at least, you can know (1) if it even boots, and (2) whether it succeeds at using your wireless in the laptop to establish networking
• 544[10:39:06] <jim> so you don't have to touch your disk
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• 594[11:40:35] <debouncer> a
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• 619[12:03:38] <ratrace> that systemd-resolved turdpile better not become default in bullseye, or ever. it's 2021, and it still accrues new breaking bugs... replaced-url
• 620[12:04:41] <ratrace> ,v systemd
• 621[12:04:42] <judd> Package: systemd on amd64 -- jessie: 215-17+deb8u7; jessie-security: 215-17+deb8u13; stretch-security: 232-25+deb9u11; stretch: 232-25+deb9u12; stretch-backports: 241-5~bpo9+1; buster: 241-7~deb10u6; buster-backports: 247.3-1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 247.3-1; sid: 247.3-3
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• 707[13:14:32] <defanor> Hello. Is it possible to tell Debian installer (for Buster) which of the existing EFI system partitions to use for grub-install? And if a new one is created from the installer itself, does it it always use that one?
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• 710[13:17:04] <GuiltySpark343> What's kernel-package's replacement? I want to build the kernel using the latest version from kernel.org
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• 716[13:19:16] <towo^work> GuiltySpark343, make deb-pkg or make bindeb-pkg
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• 718[13:19:44] <towo^work> that are upstream targets no need for any special package on the build system
• 719[13:21:44] <GuiltySpark343> towo^work: will it work with the tars from kernel.org?
• 720[13:21:56] <towo^work> sure
• 721[13:22:01] <GuiltySpark343> Thanks
• 722[13:22:13] <petn-randall> GuiltySpark343: yes, that's what the Make system from upstream supports.
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• 744[13:48:23] <onla> I've got this vps and I have an ipv4 address with 20 ports given to me, they are over 10000. I have also ipv6 address, and if I curl ifconfig.io from the vps, I get the ipv6 address. I can host a web server on nginx with port 80 on ipv6 and then I can access that server. But ipv4 I need to use these special ports, however when I try curl ipv4:xxxxx nothing happens. What should I try
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• 798[14:33:36] <ychaouche> yo debianeros
• 799[14:33:37] <A4L> Hi! Is there a way to add the sid repository just for a specific package - namely monero, without upgrading other packages from it?
• 800[14:33:49] <ychaouche> is there a logsentry package for debian ?
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• 802[14:35:21] <A4L> ychaouche: there is a package logcheck
• 803[14:37:07] <ychaouche> isn't logsentry an evolution of it ?
• 804[14:37:40] <ychaouche> or is it used by redhat distros only ?
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• 807[14:40:31] <reinob> A4L: you want apt-pinning. see replaced-url
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• 833[15:06:53] <A4L> reinob: thanks, will look into it
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• 835[15:07:36] <avu> A4L: installing binary packages from sid in stable is often not possible but a ssb has a higher chance of working
• 836[15:07:38] <avu> !ssb
• 837[15:07:38] <dpkg> First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) apt update; apt install build-essential; apt build-dep packagename 4) apt -b source packagename 5) dpkg -i packagename-ver.deb To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>.
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• 858[15:26:35] <jelly> ,v logsentry
• 859[15:26:36] <judd> No package named 'logsentry' was found in amd64.
• 860[15:26:40] <jelly> ,v logcheck
• 861[15:26:41] <judd> Package: logcheck on amd64 -- jessie: 1.3.17; stretch: 1.3.18; buster: 1.3.20; bullseye: 1.3.22; sid: 1.3.22
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• 893[15:57:50] <shtrb> Can anyone hint what could cause ssh to fail to continue to auth just before the message debug1: Server host: ecdsa-sha2-nistp256 SHA256:xxxxxx ( replaced-url
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• 895[16:01:52] <ychaouche> message for the forums.debian.net admin : please fix SPF. Didn't get any mail from the forum since 2018 on my ymail. Another user has reported same problem here : replaced-url
• 896[16:02:06] <reinob> shtrb: try with ssh -o KexAlgorithms=ecdsa-sha2-nistp256 shtrb@192.168.4.2
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• 898[16:02:31] <reinob> somehow your client and your server cannot agree on a key exchange
• 899[16:02:40] <ychaouche> this is also a problem if a user has forgot his password he can't recieve a new password via e-mail.
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• 901[16:05:13] <shtrb> :-/
• 902[16:05:24] <shtrb> Bad SSH2 KexAlgorithms 'ecdsa-sha2-nistp256'.
• 903[16:05:42] <reinob> ychaouche: SPF should not be an issue. the debian forum server doesn't have that. The problem some have is because tartini.debian.net has no valid PTR record.
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• 905[16:07:26] <reinob> shtrn: OK, run "ssh -Q kex" and have a look at the list. You need to find one that the server finds OK. Try with ecdh-sha2-nistp256.
• 906[16:07:29] <ychaouche> reinob, oh, yes you're totally right about the PTR. Missed that.
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• 909[16:07:51] <reinob> shtrb: I typed your nick wrong
• 910[16:08:34] <shtrb> windows hate me
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• 913[16:12:33] <reinob> nowadays Windows hates everyone. Even its users..
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• 918[16:16:01] <jelly> shtrb, can you look at the remote sshd logs?
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• 922[16:20:25] <shtrb> jelly, unfortunately not
• 923[16:20:36] <shtrb> but maybe you can suggest me what the admin should look for ?
• 924[16:21:04] <greycat> *facepalm*
• 925[16:21:38] <shtrb> I feel like a total idiot now, I know
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• 928[16:24:16] <jelly> I don't read that as "can't agree on an algorythm", line 23 looks like they agreed on it; it's something else
• 929[16:24:20] <shtrb> Another linux user called that kurwa encrption , what ever it would mean
• 930[16:24:39] <jelly> shtrb, if I knew I'd have said as much
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• 933[16:24:54] <shtrb> oh shit, just learned what that mean , sorry
• 934[16:24:58] <jelly> curve != kurwa :-)
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• 936[16:25:43] <jelly> maybe -vv will give more clues
• 937[16:26:16] <ratrace> speaking of.... aren't nist curves something to avoid like plague?
• 938[16:26:46] <jelly> it's not proven there's a backdoor :-)
• 939[16:27:09] <jelly> but yeah I'd prefer x25519 given choice
• 940[16:27:11] <reinob> :)
• 941[16:27:23] <ratrace> mmh-hmm :)
• 942[16:27:46] <reinob> according to google it may also have to do with the MTU. I can't understand why. But if you can change your MTU to something small-ish (1200 or so) maybe it'll work..
• 943[16:28:32] <shtrb> what? ok , let see
• 944[16:28:34] <ratrace> replaced-url
• 945[16:28:43] <jelly> there was a nice presentation on the choice of "special" numbers in crypto algorythm definitions and standards
• 946[16:29:04] * ratrace glares at NIST P256 in that table
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• 955[16:31:44] <shtrb> I forgot to say , I'm doing that over an sslvpn/ppp connection (not physically near the device ).
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• 957[16:32:05] <shtrb> no change with even lowering to MTU 1000
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• 963[16:33:40] <shtrb> jelly, replaced-url
• 964[16:34:23] <greycat> debug1: Remote protocol version 2.0, remote software version OpenSSH_for_Windows_7.7
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• 966[16:34:28] <greycat> :-o
• 967[16:34:48] <shtrb> I said it's windows on the other side from the begining , I don't hide my shame
• 968[16:35:11] <greycat> I doubt anyone here knows how to help with this.
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• 973[16:38:46] <jelly> no, but at least now we see what client offered, what server offered for key exchnage protocols, and that they indeed agreed on something
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• 979[16:44:44] <karlpinc> shtrb: If you've done it before, and are using some sort of ppp connection, maybe the remote end hates you because your host key mis-matches with the IP or name that the other end has for the debian side. Just a guess, and I don't know where that check fits into the sequence of events, if it does, that your cilent side logs show. Maybe get the server side logs and look through them yourself?
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• 982[16:46:26] <shtrb> karlpinc, I have no admin control over the destination, the admin is not willing to share the logs (doh) but had aggreed to search for specific lines to search for and willing to say if they are there or not (and that is AFTER persuations )
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• 984[16:48:08] <jelly> do they need this connection more than you do?
• 985[16:48:21] <shtrb> no
• 986[16:48:26] <jelly> sigh
• 987[16:48:56] <jelly> is this routed traffic or local network?
• 988[16:49:14] <jelly> oh, vpn
• 989[16:49:15] <shtrb> Ok , I am able to connect from Win10 inside a VM inside debian :D
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• 991[16:49:32] <jelly> yay
• 992[16:49:46] <shtrb> windows to windows, works , now I need to understand why it hates debian
• 993[16:50:15] <jelly> if you have openssh on windows as well you can add verbosity to see what they agree on
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• 997[16:53:03] <EdePopede> shtrb: question, what minimum specs would you suggests?
• 998[16:53:36] <shtrb> I do not understand the question
• 999[16:54:04] <EdePopede> for win10 in vm in debian
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• 1001[16:54:53] <EdePopede> since it's even hard running a browser and a media player at the same time on *this* pc i was getting careful with assuming that the other one would suffice
• 1002[16:55:01] <shtrb> don't use this crap, that the best spec I can give you, but I gave it 8 gb ram and 80 gb disk space
• 1003[16:55:05] <jelly> 4G two cores, more ram if browser
• 1004[16:56:03] <EdePopede> 8G, 2 cores, and if a lenovo thinkcentre isn't too old i may give it a try. but wasn't there also something with cpu flags?
• 1005[16:56:08] <jelly> windows 10 has RAM compression but it's very conservative compared to zram+swap
• 1006[16:56:25] <dob1> ,v xrdpxorg
• 1007[16:56:26] <judd> No package named 'xrdpxorg' was found in amd64.
• 1008[16:56:39] <jelly> the other way round, xorgxrdp
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• 1010[16:56:50] <jelly> ,v xorgxrdp
• 1011[16:56:51] <dob1> ,v xorgxrdp
• 1012[16:56:51] <judd> Package: xorgxrdp on amd64 -- stretch: 0.9.1-9+deb9u3; stretch-backports: 1:0.2.8-1~bpo9+1; buster: 1:0.2.9-1; bullseye: 1:0.2.12-1; sid: 1:0.2.15-1
• 1013[16:56:52] <judd> Package: xorgxrdp on amd64 -- stretch: 0.9.1-9+deb9u3; stretch-backports: 1:0.2.8-1~bpo9+1; buster: 1:0.2.9-1; bullseye: 1:0.2.12-1; sid: 1:0.2.15-1
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• 1015[16:56:59] <EdePopede> i should be able to get 8 more, not so long ago that i upgraded RAM
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• 1018[16:57:26] <jelly> 8G 2 vCPU seems reasonable
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• 1022[16:59:07] <shtrb> EdePopede, the more ram the better, just don't expect it to work with VS with more than one compilation unit at a time (single thread compilation only).
• 1023[17:00:30] <EdePopede> vpu usually isn't an issue even on this one, it's mostly firefox swapping after using nearly every singe bit of the 2GB :|
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• 1025[17:00:58] <EdePopede> live debian runs really smooth even on 4GB
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• 1051[17:24:52] <shtrb> Would it be logical that a ppp connection would influence ssh connection like that ? I now took a windows machine (rdped into it) , setup debian inside a VM but let it relay on WINDOWS sslvpn/ppp and let it connect (traces replaced-url
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• 1054[17:26:58] <jelly> hard to say. Maybe your vpn really is a bit broken wrt MTU
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• 1057[17:34:18] <reinob> maybe your VPN (which one is it?) is blocking/not tunneling ICMP, which breaks path MTU discovery. I know you tried with 1000, but maybe try with something smaller, like # ip link set mtu 500 dev tun0 (or whatever your interface is called)
• 1058[17:34:25] <shtrb> And that's only ssh which is affected like that, rdp works fine , so does cifs mount "work"
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• 1063[17:37:17] <shtrb> #@@#F@#T#@V@@$ MTU 500 works
• 1064[17:37:41] <shtrb> reinob, thanks ! what's so special about 500 ?
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• 1066[17:39:49] <shtrb> jelly, reinob , EdePopede and greycat thanks MTU 500 really seem to solve this issue
• 1067[17:40:35] <jelly> 1280 or so should probably work as well
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• 1069[17:40:59] <shtrb> jelly, tried , 1500,1200,1000,750 and they all failed
• 1070[17:40:59] <reinob> who knows, maybe if what your VPN can transfer over the ethernet layer is somewhere between 500 and 1000, if you have MTU=1000 then it needs to fragment and fails (because crappy VPN or whatever). With 500 the IP packets are smaller and can be sent in one go. Just guessing but it should be more or less right
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• 1074[17:42:28] <jelly> shtrb, something is really broken there
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• 1076[17:43:18] <reinob> Maybe it's just Windows blocking ICMP (= breaking path MTU discovery).
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• 1080[17:43:57] <jelly> s/windows/firewall or vpn concentrator/
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• 1082[17:44:12] <cws> (stop disabling ICMP at your firewalls, folks ;)
• 1083[17:44:15] <reinob> jelly: yup, you're right
• 1084[17:44:32] <shtrb> I can ping that machine and other machines in the vpn :)
• 1085[17:44:42] <shtrb> so ICMP just might be working there ...
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• 1089[17:46:33] <jelly> shtrb, idiots might be passing just icmp echo request and echo reply
• 1090[17:47:03] <cws> I think PMTUD relies on "Can't Fragment" messages?
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• 1092[17:47:39] <reinob> ping is only a subset of ICMP. Maybe "Echo Reply" is allowed by the firewall/VPN/Windows/whatever but not other ICMP message types, like "Fragmentation Needed" (which is what MTU discovery needs)
• 1093[17:47:57] <shtrb> \_()_/
• 1094[17:48:12] <cws> Frag needed, that's the name.
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• 1167[18:20:38] <karlpinc> FIWI, I couldn't get through the irs.gov "where's my payment" process using chromium. I kept getting what looks like a webserver "access denied" message. (I suspect they are looking for particular user agents, but that's a guess.)
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• 1182[18:35:00] <alex11> can you do && with cronjobs or is there some limitation that makes this not possible?
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• 1184[18:35:33] <greycat> the command part of a crontab entry is interpreted by sh, after doing some % substitutions
• 1185[18:35:45] <greycat> so you can do anything sh can handle
• 1186[18:36:10] <greycat> that said, it's best if you only use simple syntax in a crontab -- if it's complex, put it in a script, and run the script from the crontab
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• 1195[18:49:48] <alex11> i was just going to do flatpak update -y && flatpak remove --unused -y
• 1196[18:50:02] <greycat> yeah, that's fine
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• 1201[18:54:37] <alex11> thanks
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• 1257[19:12:46] <A4L> karlpinc: oh, no, looks like you can't pay your taxes now :)
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• 1267[19:16:36] <arf`> Hi. How to do a "foreport" please? More precisely, let's say I want to use some stable (or older) packages that are "won't fix" buggy/broken or no more existing in testing. They may have too deep dependancies to think about pinning versions. Then, I thought about those ways to handle such case: static compilation, ok to embed libraries but less not third packages; flatpak/snap seems not that obvious to
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• 1269[19:16:42] <arf`> get/build; chroot but full system and what about gui. Well, nothing critical for me, but I met this case handfull of times for years (and survived very well), then I'm talking mostly about brimful curiosity :) If anyone has some clue/idea/resources about that, and some time to expose, please, would be happy to hear :)
• 1270[19:16:59] <A4L> avu: (RE:15:07:36+0100) yeah, building from source is an option, but I am installing from the repositories in hope of updating to get the newest version (monero is not in stable yet) - this is not possible when installing from source - or is it?
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• 1274[19:17:26] <sney> it's basically the same procedure as rebuilding sid packages for stable, in reverse. put the older deb-src entries in sources.list, apt build-dep, apt -b source.
• 1275[19:17:44] <sney> I've done it a handful of times. sometimes some minor tweaking is needed, but not usually.
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• 1277[19:17:53] <arf`> lol, just that?
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• 1280[19:18:12] <arf`> Why the hell didn't I get there straightly :(
• 1281[19:18:13] <sney> as long as the build-deps are available, yup
• 1282[19:18:19] <ratrace> xcept... if you ahve mutltiple deb-src entries, you should specify the version you want installed, methinks apt will default to latest
• 1283[19:18:31] <sney> right, file under "some tweaking"
• 1284[19:18:58] <ratrace> so, like, if you have buster and stretch deb-src, I _think_ you'll have to specify stretch's version of the package, or else it'd pull in latest, buster's
• 1285[19:19:12] <sney> or just comment out all deb-src entries except the one you need
• 1286[19:19:18] <arf`> OK, then pinning is enough to handle that?
• 1287[19:19:26] <arf`> ah nope, OK, got it.
• 1288[19:19:40] <ratrace> tho in _this_ particular example, if there's no corresponding deb-src in buster (or bullseye you said), then there should be no conflict.
• 1289[19:21:33] <arf`> You're talking about the version in dsc?
• 1290[19:21:40] <arf`> the build-depends?
• 1291[19:22:07] <ratrace> the deb-src you want to `apt source` from older release
• 1292[19:22:35] <arf`> OK.
• 1293[19:23:10] <arf`> So "foreporting" was the right word :)
• 1294[19:23:17] <arf`> thanks, have good time!
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• 1297[19:27:22] <arf`> I guess I tried this a long time ago, but had conflicts problem. Didn't think to try again for subsequent cases and should work for some of them, but my current problem may be more about handling several versions of some packages. I also thought about the /usr/local stuff, maybe should I dig that?
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• 1300[19:28:20] <sney> also a fine option'
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• 1305[19:33:20] <ratrace> arf`: I'd call it forward-porting rather :)
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• 1328[20:10:00] <Foxfir3> thinkpad x260 not waking up when opening the lid. is this a common issue?
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• 1373[20:14:38] <Chakka_> Foxfir3: do you have thinkpad packages installed? "apt search thinkpad" - and do you know if your laptop is set to "sleep" or "hibernate" on lid close? Lastly, do you have the latest FW for the thinkpad?
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• 1377[20:15:53] <Foxfir3> Chakka_: it should be the dkms firmware then?
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• 1380[20:17:34] <Chakka_> Foxfir3: Im no expert at this, but I would def. install those dkms and power mgmt/battery related packages - it cant hurt
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• 1382[20:18:43] <Chakka_> Also - If you are "hibernating" on lid close, I think you must specify a hibernation partition (like swap, maybe even swap partition is ok to use) or else it wont work. I've never actually got hibernate to work - so ymmv ;)
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• 1387[20:20:42] <Chakka_> for your Firmware on debian / thinkpad, you can see if you can get this working: replaced-url
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• 1448[21:02:50] <apaz_> What wifi gui are people using on Debian 11 (bullseye/testing)?
• 1449[21:03:06] <n4dir> probably network-manager
• 1450[21:03:09] <apaz_> wicd-gtk just got purged from the repos because it depends on python2
• 1451[21:03:38] <apaz_> And all the other wicd interfaces are pretty awful
• 1452[21:04:24] <n4dir> took me a while, but nm-connection-editor seems to be what i was looking for.
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• 1455[21:07:17] <apaz_> My university uses a very odd corporate wifi standard.
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• 1457[21:07:42] <apaz_> And unfortunately, wicd-gtk was the only one where I could figure out how to connect.
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• 1464[21:10:32] <shellclear> hi, is it possible to change the order of dns servers in peer-dns (systemd-resolved)?
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• 1468[21:12:59] <n4dir> apaz_: you sure are not the only one who prefered the interface of wicd. The subject comes up now and then, a few options are mentioned, but it seems as no one is really happy with any of them (compared with wicd)
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• 1470[21:13:45] <n4dir> some are ncurses based.
• 1471[21:14:29] <apaz_> I actually tried that one from unstable that uses a patched python3 version of wicd as a dependency
• 1472[21:14:36] <apaz_> It's really, really bad
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• 1474[21:16:48] <apaz_> I'm trying to configure it now with the gui that comes with xfce.
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• 1477[21:17:35] <apaz_> But it also doesn't support MSCHAPV2
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• 1482[21:20:31] <reinob> I used wpagui for a time (now I don't need roaming so I have a fixed wpa_supplicant config that does the job just fine)
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• 1486[21:21:55] <apaz_> Ah, nice
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• 1488[21:21:58] <apaz_> I should look into that
• 1489[21:22:13] <apaz_> I think something else is managing my wpa_supplicant, but I don't actually know what
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• 1493[21:22:18] <apaz_> Because it's blank
• 1494[21:22:32] <apaz_> Presumably that would be NetworkManager or something
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• 1502[21:25:52] <apaz_> Yeah, wpagui seems pretty good
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• 1504[21:27:36] <apaz_> Although I'm getting the error "could not get status from wpa_supplicant"
• 1505[21:27:36] <reinob> at least it does the job without getting in the way. wicd was way too "hacky" and network-manager.. I wouldn't even touch it with a stick :)
• 1506[21:28:32] <reinob> I guess you need to enable the ctrl_interface, add "ctrl_interface=DIR=/var/run/wpa_supplicant GROUP=netdev" to wpa_supplicant.conf (I think it should be there by default, but who knows).
• 1507[21:29:02] <apaz_> my wpa_supplicant.conf is literally blank.
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• 1509[21:29:51] <reinob> is it running at all? (maybe check with "ps ax | grep wpa" or such)
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• 1511[21:30:30] <apaz_> It's running, yeah
• 1512[21:30:37] <apaz_> I'm typing to you right now
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• 1515[21:31:35] <reinob> OK, I have only a raspberry pi to test, but if you the "ps ax" you should see the command line, i.e. which config file it is using.
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• 1517[21:31:55] <reinob> Like /sbin/wpa_supplicant -q -c/etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant-wlan0.conf -Dnl80211,wext -iwlan0
• 1518[21:32:25] <apaz_> /sbin/wpa_supplicant -u -s -O /run/wpa_supplicant
• 1519[21:32:41] <jhutchins> One thing I don't really like about NM is that it does not keep it's settings in an openly named human readable file.
• 1520[21:33:05] <jhutchins> But hey, it works, so whatever.
• 1521[21:33:13] <apaz_> To be honest I have absolutely no idea what's going on with all of this stuff.
• 1522[21:33:29] <apaz_> I just want to connect to university wifi
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• 1524[21:34:40] <apaz_> With wicd-gtk I didn't have to know how any of it worked
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• 1527[21:35:10] <apaz_> And now it doesn't work, so I do have to care
• 1528[21:35:44] <jmcnaught> Did you try NetworkManager?
• 1529[21:35:59] <apaz_> For like an hour or so, yeah
• 1530[21:36:06] <reinob> networking with debian is a bit of mess lately. I've disabled/removed/purged ifupdown everywhere and use only systemd-networkd (in combination with wpa_supplicant for wifi).
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• 1532[21:37:12] <reinob> (but I use mostly headless and/or stationary computers, so no need for desktop GUIs and such.. maybe I can't help here :)
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• 1534[21:37:41] <cws> reinob: There's nothing wrong with NM. Or, for that matter, ifupdown. Just have to learn the tools.
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• 1536[21:38:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1003
• 1537[21:38:34] <n4dir> there is nothing wrong with wicd working most naturally either ...
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• 1540[21:39:05] * cws knows nothing about wicd
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• 1542[21:39:47] <jmcnaught> wicd is not in testing or unstable.
• 1543[21:40:18] <jhutchins> wicd is pretty much deprecated. There are a number of chipsets it won't even see.
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• 1546[21:40:52] <jhutchins> In Etch it was often more reliable, but these days NM is pretty solid.
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• 1548[21:41:22] <n4dir> etch was solid too :-)
• 1549[21:41:43] <sney> I remember seeing wicd recommended a bunch for squeeze. still, that's about 10 years ago
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• 1555[21:42:50] <apaz_> I have my old wicd configuration still lying around if that helps
• 1556[21:43:03] <apaz_> It looks like what you would paste into wpa_supplicant.conf
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• 1562[21:53:29] <jak2000> hi all
• 1563[21:54:18] <jak2000> how to copy files from dir1 to dir2 but ONLY files that not exist on dir2 how to only sync
• 1564[21:55:37] <sney> rsync
• 1565[21:55:53] <sney> there are a lot of options, see 'man rsync', but default behavior doesn't copy files that exist in both locations
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• 1661[22:01:56] <jhutchins> jak2000: If you're backing up system directories and not just data, it's best to boot from alternate media so that the files aren't "live".
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• 1674[22:11:48] <velix> Is there a package to install backports?
• 1675[22:12:17] <sney> you mean a package that sets up buster-backports for you? no.
• 1676[22:12:39] <velix> ok :(
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• 1679[22:14:31] <ratrace> it's.... like.... a single line in apt sources.list, at minimum. followed by apt-update. why the long face.
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• 1684[22:15:35] <velix> ratrace: Debian is all about packages... so...
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• 1686[22:15:48] <velix> Debian has crazy scripts for about anything.
• 1687[22:16:06] <velix> apt install debian-backports-repository
• 1688[22:16:12] <velix> zooom zooom zooooom
• 1689[22:16:19] <n4dir> that would be a oneliner
• 1690[22:16:25] <sney> it doesn't exist now, it could exist, file a rfp and see what the response is
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• 1694[22:17:04] <sney> there are other packages that install 1 file, why not this one? /etc/apt/sources.list.d/buster-backports.conf and some debconf juju to enable deb-src, or non-free
• 1695[22:17:21] <sney> !rfp
• 1696[22:17:21] <dpkg> Request For Package (RFP) is the way to ask for a piece of software to be included in Debian. See replaced-url
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• 1698[22:17:41] <velix> sney: OKay, I'll take a cup of sleep and then dig through RFP
• 1699[22:19:04] <ratrace> your time to waste :)
• 1700[22:19:43] <ratrace> also consider that it wouldn't be a single package.
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• 1709[22:22:31] <ratrace> because the purpose of the pacakge would be to avoid..... adding a single line to sources.list manually, and doing the heavy lifting of typing "apt update". so what exactly do you add? which component? surely you can't impose all three, especially not non-free, on people, in your package. you'd have a riot on your hands. so you'd need at least 2. buster-backports-free and buster-backports-nonfree, and
• 1710[22:22:37] <ratrace> then two more, for deb-src (you can't assume people would welcome deb-src if they don't want it)
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• 1712[22:23:23] <ratrace> so that's 4 packages at least to manage now. going through sid, testing and stable, for each update. all because someone is too fucking lazy to add a single line to apt sources.list. congratulations.
• 1713[22:23:26] <velix> ratrace: That's the normal Debian way.
• 1714[22:23:50] <velix> ratrace: There are many libraries, which have 4 or more packages.
• 1715[22:23:52] <sney> no, that's what the debconf menu is for. either the package includes a few variant sources.list.d files, or uses echo to append a basic minimal one, you still only need one package
• 1716[22:24:06] <ratrace> the amount of joules required to add that single lines is dwarfed by the amount of joules spent to produce, test, submit, trickle through testing, 4 packages.
• 1717[22:24:21] <sney> probably the former though a la the postfix debconf menu, "what kind of mailserver is this" configuration switch
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• 1719[22:25:00] <ratrace> what about servers
• 1720[22:25:34] <sney> non-interactive installs, you mean? debconf has options for that too. I'll say it again with feeling: debconf
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• 1722[22:25:57] <sney> sif you don't install postfix on servers
• 1723[22:26:30] <ratrace> and now instead of managing one file you have to automate debconf. congratulations, you win 10 internets for best software design.
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• 1726[22:27:18] <ratrace> but wait! you still got a riot on your hands! some people prefer to add those to individual files in sources.list.d! now what!
• 1727[22:28:18] <sney> this is kind of off the rails. the initial idea, having a package to enable an official apt source that isn't included out of the box, is a justifiable idea.
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• 1729[22:29:03] <ratrace> it's kind of off the rails because the idea is beyond ridiculous.
• 1730[22:29:17] <ratrace> all the effort to maintain a package for SINGLE line in sources.list!
• 1731[22:29:51] <sney> it's a very small effort to reduce some support burden and possibly make some automation/orchestration stuff a bit smoother.
• 1732[22:30:07] <ratrace> sney: have you ever used ansible?
• 1733[22:30:17] <ratrace> or salt stack. or any of the config automation tools.
• 1734[22:30:25] <sney> some, yes
• 1735[22:30:43] <ratrace> can you imagine how much more lines you'd have if you needed to maintain both a package and debconf defaults.... versus.... just enabling a single line in an sources.list template?
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• 1737[22:31:36] <ratrace> so not only do you have comparatively huge overhead in maintaining a pacakge for single line, poeple using automation would have to complicate their playbooks or salt states, because someone told them to use a package, instead of handle a _single_ line in a template.
• 1738[22:31:37] <sney> do you think that having a package available to configure this, would somehow stop you from being able to do it manually?
• 1739[22:31:49] <ratrace> no it wouldn't. hence the ridiculousness of having a package.
• 1740[22:32:13] <sney> debian offers choices. there's more than one way to do things. having another choice in the form of a package is fine.
• 1741[22:33:00] <ratrace> says someone who doesn't have to maintain it :)
• 1742[22:33:06] <ratrace> or did I mistake and you're volunteering?
• 1743[22:33:38] <sney> I wouldn't not do it, if the rfp picked up steam and there was demand
• 1744[22:34:16] <sney> a small package that does one thing. that's like an hour a year of work, after the initial setup time
• 1745[22:34:39] <ratrace> you forgot the whole debconf mechanism for choices
• 1746[22:34:54] <ratrace> and a manpage. and documentation in the wiki and in the handbook.
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• 1749[22:35:22] <sney> did you just stop reading after the comma or what
• 1750[22:35:23] <ratrace> and 3-6 months of bikeshedding whether to use alternatives or debconf, to supply components ;)
• 1751[22:35:50] <sney> 3-6 months?! this isn't corporate IT, dude.
• 1752[22:36:05] <ratrace> I see you never did maintainership in a large FOSS projec t:)
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• 1754[22:36:13] <ratrace> 3-6 is conservative estimate, for some things.
• 1755[22:36:29] <ratrace> sometimes it can take years.
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• 1757[22:37:11] <sney> I'm familiar with the time investment for a high-popcon gui application with a legacy codebase and a significant number of extant bugs, because I used to maintain hexchat.
• 1758[22:37:55] <sney> this would be lower impact on all counts.
• 1759[22:38:10] <ratrace> actually no because it'd touch core distro component
• 1760[22:39:20] <ratrace> I used to be ports maintainer and committer in freebsd. keyword: used to be. and those weren't core components, ports were considered second grade citizens. except the ports mechanism itself. the endless bikesheds are still in the archives.
• 1761[22:39:48] <ratrace> the introduction of pkg and how it should handle things? years of bikeshedding.
• 1762[22:40:27] <sney> freebsd's particular way of doing things is neither here nor there.
• 1763[22:41:00] <ratrace> yeah, but just saying moths or years, even for stupidly small things but important things, isn't strange in FOSS
• 1764[22:41:00] <sney> but you know what, I surrender. you believe it'd be ridiculous to set up an apt source with a package. got it. understood.
• 1765[22:41:12] <sney> we'll see how velix's bug goes, and odds are, nothing will even happen anyway.
• 1766[22:41:25] <ratrace> I'm even willing to put figurative money on that outcome.
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• 1768[22:41:34] <sney> that is crystal clear.
• 1769[22:41:39] <abrotman> Side note, it's a slippery slope to "this package enables backports" to "this one enables contrib/non-free", or "this one changes all your sources to unstable"
• 1770[22:41:39] <velix> sney: and bitcoin won't reach $10k
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• 1772[22:43:46] <ratrace> sney: you sound upset. as if people aren't allowed to critize what seem like ridiculous ideas. whole package maintainership for a single sources.list line. :)
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• 1774[22:44:19] <sney> ratrace: sorry, should I include more winky faces to indicate that I'm not really invested in this?
• 1775[22:44:27] <ratrace> mayhaps :)
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• 1777[22:44:42] <ratrace> it _is_ a text only medium.
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• 1819[23:25:46] <Foxfir3> Chakka_: thanks. almost worked. screen wakes up. but if it goes to sleep, it doesnt wake up. will figure it out.
• 1820[23:26:05] <Foxfir3> setting up another debian machine. LVM or not LVM?
• 1821[23:29:16] <Foxfir3> okay. snapshots. i get it :) Debian rocks
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• 1840[23:59:04] <Chakka_> Foxfir3: Good to hear you made progress - do the system logs tell you anything useful ? (/var/log/messages or /var/log/kern.log) ?
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