13[00:15:45] <karlpinc> Exagone313: Nobody wants to have to
keep track of what emails they have attended to and which need
attention. That's why bug tracking systems exist.
14[00:16:07] <Exagone313> karlpinc: I don't report a bug
that can't be reproduced
19[00:18:50] <Exagone313> I understand your point, I guess it
depends to the package. if 100 users send an email, better to open
an issue. I can't know if that's the case
20[00:19:24] <Exagone313> I can still open an issue, then later
add more information on how to reproduce
21[00:19:35] <sney> spin up a vm to test/reproduce first, then
file bug
27[00:24:54] <karlpinc> Exagone313: I'm not truly paying
attention to your problem. But think of it this way. If you were the
maintainer you probably don't want to know that somebody has a
problem with a complex setup involving your package but can't
tell you how to reproduce it or how to fix it. What actionable
information can you supply the maintainer?
99[01:18:12] <skyliner_369> That sounds good. Would it be the
same as on my personal pc? Has a built in m2 slot with a card
installed with windows. I boot windows through grub
100[01:18:45] <skyliner_369> I got Linux on spinny.
101[01:19:44] <sney> that is the same principle
102[01:20:37] <Ede|Popede> why does `apt-cache show rss-glx`
when it is installed on stretch, but when it is not on buster i get
a "Purely Virtual Package" message? simulating install
says N/A, but referred to by another package. And according to judd
in buster the version string only had a '+b3' added.
103[01:20:52] <skyliner_369> Ok. Yeah windows refused to install
(it saw the nvme in the pcie fine) because mobo didn't support
booting from it
104[01:22:25] <sney> for help with windows install shenanigans,
you should probably ask in ##windows.
105[01:22:56] <skyliner_369> Well I was asking if grub could
bypass that limitation
106[01:23:15] <sney> from the debian perspective, if you have an
existing $other-os on a disk in your system, and e.g. os-prober can
detect it, then you'll be able to add that other OS to
debian's grub menu.
107[01:23:32] <sney> this doesn't cover making windows
accept the existence of other operating systems or bootloaders.
108[01:24:10] <skyliner_369> That's... true... windows
barely begrudgingly accepts macos
203[02:42:42] <quadrathoch2> overrider you can either fix your
policy (which I guess is why it's installing the older version)
or apt install <package>=<version>
207[02:44:20] <overrider> quadrathoch2: ok one more hint in
regards to fixing the policy. How would i start to go about that? I
thought after adding a repo, apt automatically goes for the highest
version one...
208[02:44:41] <quadrathoch2> overrider what does apt policy say?
(paste it to paste.debian.net)
261[03:39:44] <maxtim> what's a good, safe and reliable way
to transfer a large file from one machine to another via VPN? I have
a 200gb file I need tx'd to my office. I have a share mounted
via mount.cifs. I have tried cp (not a good choice), and rsync,
which I'm not entirely sure is working. Mainly because it took
all day and only tx'd about a quater of the file. Tried to
restart the transfer, but it did just that, restarted the entire
transfer. So now I
262[03:39:45] <maxtim> have a partial and a new partial....
275[03:49:22] *** Quits: sentriz (~sentriz@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
276[03:49:29] <sney> maxtim: rsync is pretty much the best
option (try with -W if the destination doesn't have the file
yet), and your weak point is probably cifs, which is known to
misbehave over tunnels and anything other than a lan.
283[03:51:53] <sney> maxtim: if the receiving end is a windows
workstation and you have rdp access, you might try with pscp.exe
from the putty suite to grab the file in the other direction rather
than trying to tangle with a smb share
284[03:54:03] <maxtim> the flag -W reads 'copy files whole
(w/o delta-xfer algorithm)' in the man page. What's the
'delta-xfer algorithm'?
285[03:54:43] <sney> that's where rsync calculates the
difference between a src and dest file and only sends the changed
bits, or deltas
286[03:54:57] <maxtim> ah
287[03:55:26] <maxtim> so what if the xfer is interupted again?
293[03:59:12] <sney> if the xfer is interrupted with -W then you
would have to start over. but the reason rsync took all day is
because it was spending a lot of time calculating checksums, and -W
skips that part of the process
294[03:59:45] <maxtim> ah gotchya that makes a lot more sense
300[04:02:18] <maxtim> I could probably put up an nfs share. Or
would that suffer the same or similar pitfalls?
301[04:02:58] <sney> nfs is even dumber about unreliable links
than smb.
302[04:03:16] <maxtim> lol
303[04:04:00] <sney> again, assuming the receiving end is a
windows desktop of some sort - I'd say use pscp or filezilla,
initiate the transfer from *that* end, downloading from your debian
machine at home
316[04:07:16] <invra> dunno if its a good idea to use backports
on a saerver no?
317[04:07:38] <sney> safer than a 3rd party repo
318[04:08:21] <invra> i was thinking to jsut install it from the
phpmyadmin site
319[04:08:26] <invra> better to use backport?
320[04:10:09] <sney> there's nothing inherently unsafe
about backports, and I don't see any versioned dependencies
here so it should install right alongside your existing php stack on
buster
321[04:10:34] <sney> it's better to use packaged software
whenever possible.
332[04:20:35] <sponix> sney: I found something that will
actually not work without systemd the other day. And I'm kinda
bummed about it, because it looks pretty cool -->
"cockpit"
333[04:20:41] <invra> sney: really? and in these 10 years the
development didnt get anywhere?
334[04:21:06] <alex11> the only thing with backports is that
it's good not to install hundreds of them because eventually
you will get dependency conflicts
335[04:21:09] <alex11> but basically it's fine
336[04:21:27] <sney> running any WHCP without good access
control is a recipe for disaster, but webmin was the worst of the
bunch. anyway, most linux admins take the training wheels off and
stop using any of that stuff pretty quickly
337[04:24:49] <sney> invra: once a package is removed from
debian, it starts over, and would have to go back through the wnpp
process for approval in the archive. I guess it's possible that
webmin isn't a backdoor-in-a-box anymore, but it also seems
that nobody is interested in packaging it either
369[05:19:59] <mehwork> #gcp is dead so asking here. It might be
a debian question anyway i'm not sure. I just installed a
debian instance on Google Cloud Compute Engine (GCE) and it never
asked me to set my user's password. When i run
'passwd' it asks for my current password but i have no
idea what it is. How would i find it?
370[05:21:02] <mehwork> googling just turns up articles about
how gce doesn't give your linux instance a _root_ password and
to use 'sudo passwd' to set that, which I did. So maybe i
can somehow use my root/sudo account to set my normal users
password?
371[05:22:20] <tomreyn> sudo getent shadow shows you which
accounts have passwords set
372[05:22:45] <tomreyn> sudo passwd $USER lets you set you
users' password without knowing it if you have sudo access
373[05:23:17] *** Quits: Tom01 (~tom@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
374[05:23:19] <tomreyn> but then sudo would ask for your
users' password in the first place, unless it's setup as
passwordless sudo
375[05:23:42] <tomreyn> in the end things will matter on which
image you chose to deploy
376[05:25:15] *** Quits: dvs (~hibbard@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
400[06:08:46] <Gerowen> sponix: That did it; mine actually had
two groups, libvirt and libvirt-qemu, so I just added my account to
both of them and now I'm no longer prompted for the root
password when opening virt-viewer.
401[06:09:06] <sponix> Nice
402[06:09:16] <mehwork> Gerowen: woops, i meant that for tomren
407[06:16:34] <sponix> Gerowen: you using the qemu from the
backports ?
408[06:17:58] <Gerowen> sponix: Negative, just the regular one
from stable.
409[06:18:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1154
410[06:19:46] <sponix> Gerowen: Just wondering -- I put in the
initial request for the buster backports of it. I needed a higher
version to run Mac OS well :)
546[09:50:10] *** Quits: Jad (~Nashmi@replaced-ip) (Quit: Benefits I derive from freedom are largely the result
of the uses of freedom by others, and mostly of those uses of
freedom that I could never avail myself of.)
649[11:37:34] <mindlessmiss> I get this error qwhen I try to
download with synaptic, any ideas?.... W: Download is performed
unsandboxed as root as file '/root/.synaptic/tmp//tmp_sh'
couldn't be accessed by user '_apt'. -
pkgAcquire::Run (13: Permission denied)
651[11:39:59] <jelly> mindlessmiss, are you starting synaptic as
root?
652[11:40:24] <antto> ,v oceanaudio
653[11:40:25] <judd> No package named 'oceanaudio' was
found in amd64.
654[11:41:17] <jelly> mindlessmiss, it's not an error,
it's a W arning
655[11:41:31] <jelly> (should not be fatal)
656[11:41:59] <sgo11> Ede|Popede: thanks for your reply. I found
a solution. I can use the command "udevadm info -q path -n
/dev/sdb". It will show something like
"...usb2/2-2/2-2:1.0/...". So that is Bus 2 Port 2. :)
657[11:42:58] <Ede|Popede> sgo11: ah cool. i really hate this
hierarchy, always get stuck in the nested symlinks *g*
665[11:57:33] <mindlessmiss> jelly yes I did use sudo I remember
now, simply because I could not get synaptic to start as it usually
does, either by clicking the synaptic erntry in the app menu or
pkexec synaptic
666[11:57:45] <mindlessmiss> I now get pkexec /usr/sbin/synaptic
667[11:57:45] <mindlessmiss> Error executing command as another
user: Not authorized
668[11:57:45] <mindlessmiss> This incident has been reported.
706[12:36:54] <ratrace> for nice small sendmail implementation I
recommend dma, but it requires an MTA somewhere, as it's a
submission agent
707[12:37:36] <skvl> Hello. I failed to build Xen source package
with instructions like this `apt-get build-dep xen &&
apt-get source xen && cd xen-4.14.0+88-g1d1d1f5391
&& debuild -b -uc -us` (as per
replaced-url
708[12:38:40] <ratrace> ,v xen
709[12:38:41] <judd> No package named 'xen' was found
in amd64.
767[13:26:25] <nifker> I have a machine where I needed to kill
apt when it was installing/configuring packages, how can I
install/configure the remaining ones?
777[13:30:34] <nifker> one error I can find is: "2020-12-29
02:12:41: (mod_openssl.c.1797) SSL: 1 error:1417A0C1:SSL
routines:tls_post_process_client_hello:no shared cipher"
793[13:47:33] <discovered> I really need to solve one problem
with my debian system. I have Logitec Wireless keyboard and mouse.
Both device randomly lagging(Slow or no response) suddenly. I have
tried to fix with disabling wayland but no luck. I don't know
what to try. It is more worse if i open multiple application such as
virtualization. Need a help to fix this!
794[13:48:02] <ratrace> discovered: did you move the most
obvious out of the way: batteries?
795[13:48:20] <discovered> ratrace, I am using Desktop
796[13:48:44] <ratrace> and your _wireless_ devices are powered
how? portable micro fusion reactors in them?
797[13:48:56] <petn-randall> skvl: I'm trying to build it
myself, to check if the issue is reproducible. Might take a bit.
799[13:50:10] <Ede|Popede> discovered: same here (on the air
gapped PC). had the problems from the beginning, i suspect the
connection, may not be as good as advertised.
804[13:51:49] <Ede|Popede> works mostly, but sometimes y start
typing and nothing happens. usually it helps to wag the keyboard
facing it to the receiver. which i had on the backside first, but
then moved it to a slot at the front side. made things already much
better.
805[13:51:55] <petn-randall> skvl: Btw, don't build as
root, that's a bad habit. :)
806[13:51:57] <discovered> I got a additional device which
pluged in usb 2. Tried in different usb interface. Same issue!
807[13:52:00] <ratrace> discovered: but what do you _think_ the
devices are powered with? Check the batteries first. Most of the
issues I ever saw with wireless devices were poor batteries
808[13:52:05] <discovered> Look like same issue:
replaced-url
809[13:53:21] <petn-randall> skvl: I see you're trying to
build xen from testing. What are you building it on? stable?
818[13:56:07] <Ede|Popede> discovered: not much more here, only
the angle is pretty insane. maybe 30° instead of 90°
measured at the front of the pc. but the gif on SE looks like a
non-related issue, one i'm having on this old machine more than
on the other one. old, slow, cheap graphics card. acceleration? who
knows.
821[13:56:28] <discovered> petn-randall, Yes. I have two set of
wireless device. Both are acting same. I am trying with a new one
which i purchased about 4 days ago
823[13:57:24] <petn-randall> discovered: Do you have a cabled
mouse to test? So we can check that it's related to your mouse
and not the hardware acceleration.
824[13:57:59] <discovered> petn-randall, Yes that is what i have
used before without any issue! Cabled keyboard/mouse working fine
825[13:58:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1186
826[13:58:27] <discovered> petn-randall, Should I plug it for
debugging purpose now?
827[13:58:47] <Ede|Popede> discovered, did you try it right
after login before you start something like a browser?
828[13:59:18] <petn-randall> discovered: If you've tested
in today we don't need to test it again.
829[13:59:32] <discovered> Ede|Popede, Yes. Not that worse when
i start using other applications
830[13:59:33] <ratrace> assuming langauge barrier and not really
seeing a proper confirmation, I really still think the devices
don't have new batteries inserted. those that come with
purchased device, if at all, are usually dead on arrival
831[13:59:54] <discovered> petn-randall, No i did not test it
today... Let me test it again then
832[13:59:55] <ratrace> or just explicitly confirm this and
I'll stfu about them batteries :)
834[14:00:50] <Ede|Popede> ratrace: not in mine. bought the set
some time ago, still using the first set. only having this
communication problem, but definitely not battery related. maybe
legislation here is just more consumer friendly.
837[14:01:59] <Ede|Popede> btw, what about rechargables? years
ago i was trying to use them for whatever digital device it was and
it turned out to be a not so good idea. 1.2V vs 1.5V (nominal) and
under load going down even more.
838[14:02:17] <petn-randall> skvl: It builds fine here on
bullseye.
844[14:04:09] <ratrace> Ede|Popede: the issue with bats is what
made me toss the wireless things into nearest recycling bin and get
me good old cabled things
845[14:04:19] <skvl> petn-randall: I build it under Docker
846[14:04:56] <skvl> petn-randall: I build it in sid
848[14:05:34] <ratrace> Ede|Popede: put new duracell things in
them, lasts for a few weeks. them batteries were still good-ish, and
I suspect poor power handling in the (admittedly) cheap-o mice, no
gating so it deteriorates over time
850[14:07:36] <skvl> petn-randall: could You share all
instructions used to download and build the Xen please? And describe
the environment too. Thanks a lot.
851[14:08:32] <petn-randall> skvl: It's a sid sbuild. It
will install all the required dependencies and the build the package
and run piuparts.
852[14:08:52] <petn-randall> skvl: Is your sid up-to-date? Did
you install all the build requirements?
853[14:11:10] <skvl> petn-randall: I have downloaded recent
Docker `debian:sid`, update system with `apt-get update &&
apt-get dist-upgrade` and perform `apt-get build-dep xen &&
apt-get source xen && cd xen-4.14.0+88-g1d1d1f5391
&& debuild -b -uc -us`
867[14:17:45] <skvl> petn-randall: Thanks. I would try to test
with regular user.
868[14:18:04] *** Quits: tyzef (~tyzef@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
869[14:18:40] <petn-randall> skvl: In my build logs the step
where you error out runs through fine. So apparently in my build the
files got installed to a package fine.
882[14:27:36] <Ede|Popede> ratrace: i'll check occasionally
when i bought it, i have to find the bill. batteries was the reason
why it took me so long to take this path, i remember people changing
their batteries all the time as well as the desperate look for a
wall socket as soon as they get through the door. early
"smart"phones ;)
908[14:52:01] <PaddyF> hello. my PC uses a Radeon RX590 and i
would like to run it without installing the firmware-linux-nonfree
and firmware-amd-graphics packages. could somebody guide me, please?
919[14:56:51] <tomreyn> you'd need to buy different
hardware, i think. i'm not sure whether there is a well
performing open source graphics stack which does not depend on
binary blobs.
926[14:59:08] <PaddyF> the whole idea is very naive, i see that
now
927[14:59:23] <petn-randall> PaddyF: Your GPU is already running
with non-free firmware. The one that is burned in. So there's
little benefit of not installing firmware-linux-nonfree.
956[15:16:56] <petn-randall> discovered_: Did you check the
system logs for any errors regarding your mouse?
957[15:17:04] <ratrace> discovered_: I know I'm annoying,
but you never confirmed that you actually put in fresh new
batteries. I'm still betting on that to be the cause.
958[15:18:10] <discovered_> ratrace, You i mean, At first i
should put a new battery? Then i have to get one first
961[15:18:39] <ratrace> discovered_: well yes, that's what
I've been trying to tell you all this time. Put in new ones,
confirm that you did so and confirm that it did or did not solve
your issue.
971[15:21:44] <ratrace> simpledat: from sources most likely, and
be careful you don't do that as root, or install system-wide.
why do you need _that_ particular version?
972[15:22:07] <simpledat> python3 is already the newest version
(3.5.3-1).
973[15:22:30] <simpledat> ratrace: Why not as root?
974[15:22:37] <dvs> simpledat: but you are using Debian 9 in
that case.
975[15:22:42] <simpledat> I need it for electrum bitcoin wallet
976[15:22:45] <ratrace> because you risk clobbering your
packaged system python which will break everything python related
996[15:30:34] <ratrace> or try backporting the debian package
from buster. the fact there's no 3.7 in stretch backports
already makes me wonder if there's something preventing the
backport. but maybe it's as simple as running:
997[15:30:35] <simpledat> Can I download it from this one?
1000[15:30:39] <dpkg> First, check for a backport on
<debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for
sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable
debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) apt update; apt install
build-essential; apt build-dep packagename 4) apt -b source
packagename 5) dpkg -i packagename-ver.deb To change compilation
options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid
see <uupdate>.
1006[15:33:08] <ratrace> simpledat: you don't, without
making a mess of dependencies
1007[15:33:48] <ratrace> openssl for starters.... I'd
_really_ just recommend a simple build into a local dir as mentioned
in the stackoverflow link I posted above
1026[15:43:03] <simpledat> So how can I run electrum on my
computer then?
1027[15:43:46] <ratrace> right, so two options: 1) try the
backport route, which requires installing build deps and messing
with system pkgs, or 2) do what the SO answer linked above
recommends, download tarball, build in a dir, create virtualenv of
it, boundle it all together
1028[15:44:24] <ratrace> building it might _still_ require build
deps preinstalled, so maybe stretch's 3.5 can be reused
1029[15:45:16] <ratrace> option 3) debootstrap a buster or sid
chroot, install and run there. you can use the deboostrap'd dir
with a local systemd namespaced service
1030[15:45:23] <simpledat> I have no clue how to do it
1031[15:45:33] <ratrace> learn it :)
1032[15:45:44] <simpledat> What would be easiest for me?
1033[15:45:59] <ratrace> maybe option 3)
1034[15:46:57] <ratrace> no building required, no pollution with
packages from build deps. just a single dir debootstrapped with
Buster, chroot into it to instlal your wallet, and if that's a
service, you can make a service unit on your host to use the chroot
1035[15:47:08] <jelly> simpledat, set up a nspawn container or
chroot for debian 10 and run in there
1036[15:47:37] <simpledat> jelly: Can you please guide me how to
do it?
1050[15:50:26] <DanteD> bullseye/testing mounting exfat usb
stick: "mount: /mnt: unknown filesystem type
'exfat'." I have exfat-utils and exfat-fuse
installed. I also tried exfatprogs. Any ideas?
1051[15:50:42] <ratrace> jelly: that's terrible and totally
not scoring you any bragging rights :)
1052[15:51:20] <simpledat> How do I run a AppImage?
1061[15:52:59] <ratrace> if by "well" you mean it
didn't segfault.... then I can imagine it, yes :)
1062[15:53:12] <asymptotically> DanteD: make sure you have
CONFIG_FUSE_FS enabled or as a module in your kernel config. also if
you have a newer kernel, i think there might be an exfat module in
there now
1063[15:53:18] *** Quits: tyzef (~tyzef@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1064[15:53:18] <ratrace> missing kernel options are gonna wreck
any other concepts of "well"
1069[15:54:44] <DanteD> Is linux-image-5.9.0-5 current for
bullsye now?
1070[15:54:55] <ratrace> simpledat: then you'll have to ask
google how to run appimage thinkgs on debian. and now you've
made me go check, there's also snap of it, so if you want
snaps, that's two commands to install it :)
1079[15:57:26] <ratrace> maybe I should really default to
checking if there's a snap or flatpak of any unpackaged program
asked to be installed....
1080[15:57:46] *** Quits: treeview (~treeview@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1081[15:57:56] <simpledat> What's the different between
installing it and run it as appimage?
1082[15:58:42] <ratrace> an appimage (or flatpak, or snap) is a
containerized "package" that includes everything needed to
run a program. they're mini-operating-systems, without the
kernel
1083[15:59:18] <ratrace> simpledat: same thing you'd get if
you debootstrapped buster, then used nspawn to start a shell in it,
and install your wallet, then run the wallet in that
"chroot" or nspawn namespace
1084[15:59:21] <n4dir> VCVRack Appimage sure doesn't contain
alsa or jack. But i guess yes, that is the general idea
1086[16:00:12] <simpledat> is it more or less secure to run it as
appimage?
1087[16:00:13] <ratrace> alsa or jack are interfaces usually
expected to exist on the host, and require kernel modules (alsa at
least) so they can't be containerized anyway
1088[16:00:23] <simpledat> I mean, is it better to install it
then run it as appimage?
1089[16:00:44] <n4dir> hence calling it a mini-operating-system
is a bit of a stretch
1090[16:00:54] <greycat> micro-
1091[16:01:00] <ratrace> containerized programs have security
advantages, yes, as they're contain(eriz)ed inside a single
filesystem, process and uid namespace
1092[16:01:18] <ratrace> n4dir: right. it's a "close
enough" analogy
1093[16:01:39] <ratrace> and _some_ containers are behemoths of
literally entire installation of , say, debian, sans the kernel
1097[16:02:33] <n4dir> close enough for me too. As long i got
other options, i would use those. For Rack i haven't. But i
don't really know bout AppImages, besides that.
1099[16:03:17] <ratrace> I have no experience with AppImages but
from what I've read .... they're maybe most preferable if
you want as simple as possible, as they don't come with all the
logistics and infra overhead of, say, snaps
1104[16:07:26] <n4dir> For this one AppImage it kinda is straight
forward. Though i need a wrapper script or always run it from the
directory where it is stored. But that is probably this AppImage
only.
1147[16:54:04] <unixbsd> hello, in debian repos, is there an
alternative to gnumeric and libreoffice spreadsheet. are there other
applications, available from repository?
1193[17:30:57] <Ingvix> hmm, if I want a selective vpn connection
is my best choice to set up a minimal virtual machine that's
running openvpn client and proxy server or are there other ways? the
vpn server is not my own
1211[17:38:12] <PaddyF> or take the easy road to "ufw"
1212[17:38:24] <sney> your openwrt device may be a good choice,
or not, vpn encryption has significant cpu overhead
1213[17:39:55] <Ingvix> well I could also set it up on my
general-purpose/media server that's currently directing
everything to vpn and I also have a proxy on it that I've used
so far
1214[17:40:11] <Ingvix> but now I'd like to have more
control on the server on what goes where
1234[17:55:19] <Azrael_-> is it possible to install openjdk 8 and
11 side by side on stretch?
1235[17:55:57] <petn-randall> Azrael_-: If the packages
don't conflict I'd expect them to.
1236[17:56:20] <sney> openjdk packages are versioned, so you can
install them side by side, though a given debian release usually
only has one version available
1237[17:57:55] *** Quits: Jad (~Nashmi@replaced-ip) (Quit: Benefits I derive from freedom are largely the result
of the uses of freedom by others, and mostly of those uses of
freedom that I could never avail myself of.)
1242[17:59:13] <Azrael_-> sney: correct, that's what i also
realized. that's why i'm asking how i could accomplish
this. got a software which only runs on jdk8 but another software
which runs properly on jdk11. thus i want to use both at the same
time in the same machine
1253[18:09:24] <jelly> Azrael_-, if your service does not deal
with untrusted inputs and is not exposed to the internet, you could
add stretch repos back to sources.list and use the binary pacakges
from there.
1254[18:09:58] <jelly> Azrael_-, you could also set up a separate
stretch environment (like a chroot, or a systemd-nspawn container)
1255[18:10:40] <jelly> Azrael_-, adding repos for the OLDER
debian release to mix with current release isn't too horrible
an idea
1257[18:13:06] <Azrael_-> so i probably won't have that much
of problems if i want to upgrade debian lateron and won't get
screamed at for using a "frankendebian" :)
1258[18:14:19] *** Quits: tyzef (~tyzef@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1262[18:17:27] <greycat> having leftover old packages is fine and
normal
1263[18:17:58] <greycat> intentionally *adding* old packages
because the newer ones don't work or don't exist is...
less normal, but can be fine as long as you know what you're
doing
1272[18:22:32] <Azrael_-> ok, thanks a lot for the feedback. just
found out the old software didn't look for openjdk8 but oracle
java 1.8 and i just downloaded+extracted it into a self contained
folder. and it works like this
1273[18:22:45] <prometheanfire> having a kernel version locked to
a distro release just seems odd to me (coming from gentoo...)
1289[18:24:31] <sney> routebee: any installer can give you that,
just unselect all of the tasks at the software selection dialog
1290[18:24:32] <alexrelis[m]> I have the KDE minimal package
installed. Why is it when I remove kde-screenshot or juk, it tells
me that a whole bunch of dependencies are not needed and says that
an autoremove would get rid of them?
1291[18:24:35] <greycat> All the installers give you the same
choices at the end. The only difference is how many packages are
physically on the medium.
1300[18:25:56] <sney> yeah, the only wifi adapters that
*don't* need non-free firmware are ath5k and ath9k, and those
are pretty old now. ath9k only goes up to 802.11n
1301[18:26:06] <greycat> For the question that was asked here,
the netinst with nonfree firmware sounds like the best pick.
1302[18:26:07] <n4dir> if all one wants is terminal wlan and
dpkg, then deborphan installation might be a choice
1303[18:26:31] <n4dir> but then: why the trouble ...
1304[18:27:47] <unixbsd> hello, in debian repos, is there an
alternative to gnumeric and libreoffice spreadsheet. are there other
applications, available from repository?
1308[18:28:15] <dpkg> rumour has it, debtags is a way of
categorising packages with tags (facets) that describe how a package
can be used, what data it can read/write, what interfaces it has
etc. This adds another dimension to package searching. Install the
debtags package, then search either using "debtags" or
"aptitude". For a GUI install packagesearch. Search (or
add new tags) at
replaced-url
1309[18:28:36] <sney> I can't think of any other spreadsheet
apps offhand but this should be a good way to find out, unixbsd ^
1310[18:28:39] <greycat> sounds like overcomplicating to me. just
do a netinst and pick "Standard" at the end.
1344[18:44:08] <greycat> how about "ls -l filename"?
that shows you the last modification time. if you didn't modify
it after "download", then that should be what you want.
1345[18:44:10] *** ezri9229 is now known as S3xyL1nux
1346[18:45:01] <greycat> unless of course the thing you used to
"download" the file altered the timestamp after the
download, to match the timestamp on the source file. some of them do
that. in that case, there is NOTHING that stores the metadata you
want.
1347[18:45:26] <greycat> unless it's in ctime, but even then
you're just rolling dice.
1348[18:45:37] <greycat> ctime will be updated whenever you chmod
or whatever.
1349[18:45:41] <dff> which approaches are viable if i want to
move debian from sdc to sdb?
1352[18:46:02] <dpkg> Slow down for a bit! Are you sure that you
need to jump through that particular hoop to achieve your goal? We
suspect you don't, so why don't you back up a bit and tell
us about the overall objective... We know that people often falsely
diagnose problems because they are too close to them -- it's
easy to miss that there is a better way to proceed. See
replaced-url
1353[18:46:17] <greycat> the question that was asked is SO
incredibly convoluted and vague that it has to be an X-Y
1372[18:51:16] <NetTerminalGene> greycat: man, there is a file in
my computer. i want to know when it is created or copied, or
downloaded. is it too complicated?
1373[18:51:23] <greycat> YESQW
1374[18:51:26] <greycat> YES IT IS!
1375[18:51:38] <NetTerminalGene> -_-
1376[18:52:35] <NetTerminalGene> i say, i downloaded a file in my
computer in past. now i want to know when the file touched my disk
1377[18:53:26] <Ede|Popede> wouldn't this be birth time?
1378[18:53:38] <greycat> Maybe.
1379[18:53:55] <dff> sorry i want to clone debian (currently on a
1TB SDD) to an SSD with 500gb. That SSD has windows on, it want
windows on the SSD debian currently is on. I have an unused 1TB
spinning disk that can work as temp storage
1382[18:54:23] <dff> sorry i cant edit those typos, try to make
sense of it
1383[18:54:28] <Ede|Popede> `stat ~` on my ext4 → Birth: -
1384[18:54:35] <ratrace> $32k question. is birth time the time of
first byte or last byte :)
1385[18:54:46] <greycat> NetTerminalGene: Unix stores 3
timestamps for each file. None of them is what you want. Linux ext4
adds a 4th one called "birth time". No standard unix tool
can display it. It may or may not be what you want. Did you try
"ls -l" yet? It might work. Or it might not.
1386[18:55:06] <jelly> Ede|Popede, stat userspace in buster does
not know the correct way to ask kernel for that info
1387[18:55:17] <jelly> !crtime
1388[18:55:17] <dpkg> Some filesystems may store creation time
after all, even if POSIX APIs don't expose it. Ext4 does. E.g.,
to check how long ago your root filesystem root directory was
created: f="/"; dev=`df -P "$f"|tail -n1|awk
'{print $1}'`; i=`stat -c%i "$f"`; sudo debugfs
-R"stat <$i>" "$dev" 2>&1|grep
^crtime
1389[18:55:21] <jelly> Ede|Popede, ^
1390[18:55:31] <Ede|Popede> is it even in the kernel? afaik linus
refuses for whatever reason atm
1391[18:56:05] <jelly> yes, glibc and userspace will have it, not
sure if bullseye but bookworm for sure
1392[18:56:37] <jelly> Ede|Popede, many Bothans died to bring you
that onelines
1393[18:56:44] <jelly> oneliner*
1394[18:56:53] <NetTerminalGene> greycat: wtf is that? nevermind,
i gave up
1416[18:59:49] *** Quits: ddsys (~ddsys@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1417[19:00:09] <Sarcutus> Pardon me all, idiotic question here --
is there a package in the repo for a system tray in Debian? I'm
using Debian/GNU Linux DI Alpha-3 Skolelinux.
1418[19:00:15] * jelly did not notice NTG asked the question
1419[19:00:22] <NetTerminalGene> jelly: i am not gonna enter that
command in any way
1420[19:00:24] <b-04> why not found? tar zcfv nginx_proxy.tar.gz
. --exclude='./logs'
1421[19:00:30] <b-04> i need to exclude logs directory
1422[19:00:32] <jelly> !pal NetTerminalGene
1423[19:00:32] * dpkg points at NetTerminalGene and laughs hysterically
1424[19:00:39] <greycat> !skolelinux
1425[19:00:39] <dpkg> Skolelinux is a Debian Pure <Blend>
produced by the <Debian Edu> project, see
replaced-url
1444[19:03:55] <jelly> Sarcutus, xfce should have a system tray
thing for the panel
1445[19:04:05] <jelly> not sure if it's there by default
1446[19:04:13] <b-04> im in the directory, have some files and
folders, and have a folder called "logs" and subfolders in
logs, i need to exclude the logs folder
1447[19:04:14] <Sarcutus> jelly: I know. My problem is with MATE
and GNOME.
1448[19:04:20] <b-04> tar zcfv nginx_proxy.tar.gz .
--exclude='./logs'
1449[19:04:36] <b-04> my pwd is the directory
1450[19:04:53] <b-04> i need to backup all, except folder logs
and subfolders in logs
1451[19:04:55] <ratrace> b-04: fv is a nope. filename must come
directly after f, try czvf
1452[19:05:02] *** Quits: gturner (gturner@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1454[19:05:38] <ratrace> have some hierachy there :) create,
compress, be verbose about it, the file nginx_proxy.tar.gz from_dir
--exclude=this_and_that
1456[19:06:36] <greycat> GNU is extremely weird about letting
people put options in random places that options should not be, to
the point where I have no idea which GNU tar commands will work and
which will fail
1465[19:09:01] <jelly> Shirely tar
--exclude='logs/reverseproxy/*' zcvf nginx_proxy.tar.gz
from_dir and leave off that damn .
1466[19:09:09] <jelly> ?
1467[19:09:38] <greycat> using a shell extended glob to match all
the source directories EXCEPT "logs" might work if
he's writing for a shell that has extglobs
1468[19:09:48] <jelly> why would someone tar up both . and some
named dir
1469[19:10:09] <greycat> I don't think he understands that
you meant one as a placeholder
1470[19:10:36] <jelly> ah.
1471[19:10:46] <greycat> Bear in mind that he also didn't
understand why the f has to be right before the output filename...
1489[19:22:31] *** Quits: fflori (~fflori@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1490[19:23:14] *** Quits: eliotome3000 (~eliotime@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1491[19:23:20] <DrBunsen> Heya all, weird question maybe, but can
I have each monitor I connect work like a different work station? I
want to use a workstation as a workstation on monitor A and monitor
B as my television. But the problem now sound and KBM et cetera is
all shared, and I wonder if there is a way like you can do with VMs
is to say monitor B is workstation B and KBM on usb X only works on
B. If that is clear anyway.
1498[19:25:15] <ratrace> DrBunsen: this maybe
replaced-url
1499[19:26:04] <hramrach> DrBunsen does running a TV application
on one screen not cut it? does it really need to be separate? If so
then you probably want to look into multiseat but it's
challenging to set up without having separate graphics card for each
monitor
1502[19:26:53] <DrBunsen> Multi seat, I knew there was something
like that, thanks. And I will read into it. I couldn't really
format my question for google to understand it. Thanks.
1503[19:27:01] <ratrace> speaking of sound, it should be possible
to separtae outputs between applications with pulseaudio
1504[19:27:36] <ratrace> if THAT is all that's problematic
here, grab a cheap-o few bucks USB audio device as secondary, and
separte app sound ports via PA
1505[19:28:24] <DrBunsen> The tv is connected thourgh HDMI, that
is also visible as a audio device. And for the other audio I just
use the jacks.
1519[19:39:27] <ratrace> do you actually even need it? you can
separate desktops between monitors, then slam the tv app in one,
push its audio through a dedicated port, ?????, profit?
1528[19:44:29] <greycat> mtime is the last time data was written
to the file. ctime is the last time the file's metadata changed
(owner, group, permissions, etc.)
1530[19:44:54] <greycat> and the third one, atime, is the last
time data was read from the file, except that most systems have
stopped tracking atime, because it's a HUGE burden
1531[19:45:46] <NetTerminalGene> greycat: why do you know that?
1589[20:23:56] <sney> what's the whole fstab line for your
secondary disk?
1590[20:24:59] <karlpinc> NetTerminalGene: I don't know
where you are in your Linux-Fu training, but "man less"
will tell you how to use the standard pager so you can then search
in man pages.
1591[20:25:14] *** Quits: Ericounet (~Eric@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1876[23:41:15] <smurfke> Question: the folder I am sharing via
NFS has the following permissions on freebsd --> smurf:wheel. On
my client (Debian) I would like it to be mounted as smurf:smurf
1877[23:41:26] <smurfke> 1) Is that possible
1878[23:41:35] <dob1> what is the ram usage of newer debian
installed system?
1879[23:41:41] <dob1> *new
1880[23:41:48] <smurfke> 2) Will smurf:smurf have the needed
permissions to do everything smurf:wheel can do on freebsd?
1881[23:41:55] <jhutchins> I guess xfce & chrome are using
Evince. "Just Works".
1885[23:42:56] <jhutchins> smurfke: Is smurf a member of wheel?
1886[23:43:03] <smurfke> on freebsd, yes
1887[23:43:29] <smurfke> however the group wheel does not exist
on my debian installation. That's why I am asking
1888[23:43:47] <sney> dob1: depending on desktop environment,
<1GB with nothing running, expanding to way more than that if you
have a few browser tabs open.
1889[23:43:49] *** Quits: dvs (~hibbard@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1890[23:43:53] <jhutchins> smurfke: Try it and see. I don't
think local permissions are relevant on NFS mounts.
1902[23:48:04] <pfred1> I think my NFS works because i set all my
PCs up the same
1903[23:48:06] <smurfke> jhutchins: in fact I also have an SMB
share set up but I thought NFS would be the way to go in a *nix
enviornment
1904[23:48:26] <smurfke> pfred1: thanks prolly your UIDs and GIDs
do match then
1905[23:48:29] <jhutchins> smurfke: I believe the NFS client
documentation is pretty good these days, particularl v3 as people
have been using it forever, and the NAS makers have never gone on to
4.
1909[23:48:47] <smurfke> I think that'll be the problem then
1910[23:49:05] <pfred1> smurfke I'm sure there's ways
of getting it to work if they don't though
1911[23:49:20] <smurfke> okay!
1912[23:49:41] <pfred1> when it works a remote mount should work
just like a local disk
1913[23:49:57] <jhutchins> smurfke: The problem with NFS is that
unless you have centralized accounts - single sign-on - you run into
issues where smurf@box1 has a different UID and GID than smurf@box2