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0 [00:00:06] <Neobenedict> well this project is dead
1 [00:00:08] <Neobenedict> but something like that
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4 [00:03:26] <t3st3r> <Neobenedict> any idea if its
possible to install wireguard into the initramfs? <-
theoretically yes, why not?
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6 [00:04:24] <t3st3r> I can imagine it wouldn't be
bump-free ride, but idea sounds interesting.
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9 [00:04:44] <karlpinc> Neobenedict: Traditionally, you'd
put dropbear in the initramfs and use ssh for remote decryption.
10 [00:04:45] <aedinius> I know voidlinux has the option to
enable ssh in initramfs for that reason -- might be able to look
into how its done there
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12 [00:05:30] <karlpinc> Neobenedict: There's something in
some README.Debian about this, maybe: /usr/share/doc/cryptsetup/
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19 [00:07:45] * karlpinc uses dropbear for this in my initramfs
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23 [00:08:38] <Neobenedict> karlpinc: unfortunately said server
is behind a firewall
24 [00:08:45] <Neobenedict> so i'd need openvpn as well as
ssh
25 [00:08:47] <Neobenedict> or er
26 [00:08:48] <Neobenedict> wireguard
27 [00:08:51] <Neobenedict> preferably
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29 [00:10:31] <karlpinc> Neobenedict: There's a way to
cheat. You have your initramfs spawn a ssh process, using a key pair
for authentication, to some other server. The ssh process
establishes a reverse tunnel. Then you can ssh into that tunnel to
get to dropbear on the remote box. It's a poor man's vpn.
30 [00:11:04] <Neobenedict> huh
31 [00:11:07] <Neobenedict> sure
32 [00:11:11] <karlpinc> Neobenedict: The account used to setup
the reverse tunnel can have "/bin/cat" as its shell.
33 [00:11:12] <aedinius> I like that
34 [00:11:30] <Neobenedict> these servers do have ipmi
35 [00:11:33] <Neobenedict> but well
36 [00:11:45] <Neobenedict> i'd have to open up a web
management thing not updated since 2012 to the internet
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38 [00:12:26] <Neobenedict> alternatively I could stick a
raspberry pi in the server
39 [00:12:34] <Neobenedict> and just use that
40 [00:13:01] <Neobenedict> hm
41 [00:13:12] <karlpinc> ipmi-like stuff always seemed a giant
security hole. (And I'm not to fond of UEFI either.)
42 [00:13:42] <t3st3r> Neobenedict> hmm sbc like pi doing
wireguard to access ipmi... why not? :)
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45 [00:14:17] <karlpinc> t3st3r: It's another box to
manage.
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48 [00:15:35] <Neobenedict> t3st3r: you know what would be even
more next level? installing a ssh client and wireguard on the
network switch.
49 [00:15:39] <Neobenedict> ssh server*
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51 [00:16:51] <karlpinc> Depending, put a modem on a POTS line
and attach that to a raspberry pi, and attach that to a
USB->serial device and access a serial console to everything
on-site with wires. Only thing is you have ongoing payments for the
POTS line.
52 [00:17:22] <karlpinc> Secure, simple, foolproof.
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54 [00:17:45] <Neobenedict> the switch runs on uh
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56 [00:17:59] <Neobenedict> powerpc
57 [00:18:06] <Neobenedict> yeah no thats not happening
58 [00:18:17] <karlpinc> Simplest would be to open inbound ssh
on the firewall.
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61 [00:18:54] <karlpinc> To _something_ on the network. You
could go through whatever to re-ssh to dropbear.
62 [00:19:04] <Neobenedict> karlpinc: well, rasppi would solve
all problems at once
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64 [00:20:14] <Neobenedict> im honestly not sure its a good idea
to expose iLO to the public internet
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66 [00:21:28] <aedinius> It is not.
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68 [00:22:13] <Neobenedict> problem is every network device here
gets a public IP
69 [00:22:15] <aedinius> I like this modem+POTS idea
70 [00:22:21] <Neobenedict> by default, firewalled
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72 [00:23:03] <Neobenedict> well, I'll figure something out
later
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142 [01:11:32] <dlam> hey im doing some Docker stuff and getting
this, any ideas? Failed to fetch
replaced-url
143 [01:12:47] <phogg> dlam: does it get better if you apt-get
update first?
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147 [01:14:36] <dlam> nope, im running an `apt-get update` right
before i install some packages!
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150 [01:16:11] <Sleaker> dlam: I answered you yesterday on this
151 [01:16:22] <Sleaker> that package doesn't exist on the
mirror
152 [01:16:25] <dlam> hmm when I do 'apt-get update
--fix-missing I get... Failed to fetch
replaced-url
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154 [01:17:09] <Sleaker> dlam: browse to the repo manually, your
apt isn't updating the list of available packages properly and
the package being selected no longer exists.
155 [01:17:30] <Sleaker> is security the only repository you
currently have enabled?
156 [01:18:10] <dlam> sure, but I don't know how to resolve
it cuz im a noob (sorry) :D
157 [01:18:22] <Sleaker> dlam: your issue might be because the
repo got removed.
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160 [01:18:53] <dlam> mmmk, and im sorry might not have all the
answers-to-questions: im working on an old Dockerfile thing for an
old project
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164 [01:19:09] <Sleaker> dlam: what's in your sources.list
atm?
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168 [01:20:26] <dlam> man, i cant even build the docker image, so
I cant `cat /etc/apt/sources.list` (sorry <-- super n00b)
169 [01:20:32] <Sleaker> hmm.
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174 [01:22:57] <Sleaker> yah I'm not sure how the process is
done for building the docker image, but it's not good if
it's trying to use a stale package cache to build the image and
you have no control on swapping the sources.list
175 [01:23:38] <Sleaker> it sounds like some part of the process
isn't making sure to update the apt cache with an installable
version of a required package.
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182 [01:24:27] <Sleaker> like you should probably be pointed at
'deb.debian.org/debian jessie' and not jessie-updates
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185 [01:24:37] <Sleaker> or at the minimum pointed at both
186 [01:24:48] <Sleaker> cause jessie-updates doesn't
necessarily have everything available.
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195 [01:30:15] <dlam> maybe there's a command to
make-it-not-look in jessie-updates? was it like apt-sources or
something hmm
196 [01:30:46] <Sleaker> uh can you not just edit the
sources.list ?
197 [01:30:57] <Sleaker> you can pass a repository url to the apt
command
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199 [01:32:20] <Sleaker> or another file to use
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201 [01:32:43] <Sleaker> eg: apt command -o
Dir::Etc::sourceList=/my/source.list
202 [01:33:02] <Sleaker> SourceList*
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204 [01:40:14] <dlam> oo thanks thanks, ok I think its more of a
Docker question i think, im using an old debian image or something
idk)
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237 [02:12:05] <Sleaker> dlam: that's for sure, jessie is
oldstable.
238 [02:12:09] <Sleaker> stretch is current stable
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334 [04:01:26] <karlpinc> Neobenedict: The thing to do to keep
ssh secure is to make sure that /etc/ssh/sshd_config says that root
can't log in (or not without using a key) and to require that a
key be used to login, period. Then you follow good practice handing
out accounts and keys -- no sharing between people. If you're
really paranoid, use certs instead because they expire. If
you're worried about DOS attacks, rate-limit port 22 per-source
IP on your
335 [04:01:26] <karlpinc> firewall. That pretty much takes care
of it short of a big bug in sshd itself.
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338 [04:05:21] <karlpinc> (Rate-limit new connections, not
bandwidth.)
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348 [04:11:23] <karlpinc> FWIW, you don't really want to
hand out keys. It's simplest if each person has only one key;
one identity. So use they key a person already has. You can always
revoke access on your side by removing the account or the key from
~/.ssh/authorized_keys. (Or the equalivent dropbear file. I forget.)
349 [04:11:42] *** Quits: plamenstoev (~ps@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving.)
350 [04:13:40] <themill> per "(person, device)" rather
than just "person
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353 [04:15:10] <karlpinc> Right. Sometimes devices or even
"features" get their own key.
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355 [04:18:22] <karlpinc> Handing out a key is an exhibition
InternetOfThings-Love. :)
356 [04:20:18] <yhlfh> hello all, is there a way for fontconfig
to modify font charset?
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389 [04:53:33] <tp43_> I did a couple purges and re-installs, but
I seem to be missing some windowing system files. When I open Vim,
or shell, or right click in the browser, all the styles are missing.
No margins or paddings
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439 [05:37:22] <leibniz> apninnin
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477 [06:24:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1537
478 [06:25:09] <roylaprattep> How many of you guys made the
upgrade Jessie to Stretch? As a server, not a workstation. Thank for
your replies.
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482 [06:28:29] <tvm> roylaprattep: there isn't much
difference to be honest
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485 [06:29:15] <tvm> and 99% of time it goes smoothly without any
need for intervention
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487 [06:30:04] *** Quits: In33dt0kn0w (~In33dt0kn@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
488 [06:32:46] *** Quits: themill (~stuart@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
489 [06:33:16] <roylaprattep> tvm: So, as a server, I should
wait? No major changes?
490 [06:33:39] <roylaprattep> Except for MySQL switch to MariaDB
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504 [06:44:58] <tvm> you can stay with it as long as jessie is
being considered oldstable release
505 [06:46:08] <tvm> but next release is behind the doors and
this will soon be obsoleted
506 [06:47:06] <klys> debian: I thought that you were
Jessie's girl!
507 [06:47:20] <tvm> i would personally upgrade it
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510 [06:50:57] <themill> roylaprattep: most people would have
upgraded over a year ago; note that only a portion of jessie is
still supported by the jessie LTS project)
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515 [06:53:09] <SerajewelKS> roylaprattep: i upgraded within a
few months of release, i think
516 [06:53:33] <SerajewelKS> not a great idea to wait a long time
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572 [08:13:29] <isaac_> hello
573 [08:13:40] <isaac_> exit
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575 [08:15:28] <isaac_> hello
576 [08:16:10] <Haohmaru> hai
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578 [08:17:15] <isaac_> hola
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584 [08:19:17] <dx_ob> hello
585 [08:19:39] <dx_ob> how do i create a usb installer ?
586 [08:19:45] <dx_ob> like
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588 [08:20:17] <dx_ob> dd bs=1024 if=./debian.iso of=/dev/sdb or
sdb1 ?
589 [08:20:31] <Haohmaru> uhm, like.. take the
"netinst" iso and slap it onto a usb flash stick
590 [08:21:10] <Haohmaru> /dev/sdb is a whole "drive",
/dev/sdbN is a partition on that drive
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592 [08:21:45] <Haohmaru> you wanna write the ISO onto the whole
drive, so it starts from the beginning of it, not from the beginning
of some partition
593 [08:22:07] <dx_ob> ok
594 [08:22:09] <dx_ob> thnx
595 [08:22:19] <Haohmaru> i'd personally put a bigger number
in bs
596 [08:22:20] <themill> also, you can just cp just like the
documentation says
597 [08:22:43] <Haohmaru> and add conv=sync status=progress
598 [08:22:46] <themill>
replaced-url
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600 [08:24:09] <dx_ob> Haohmaru: so it should be sdb ?
601 [08:24:36] * themill wonders why you'd want conv=sync
602 [08:24:48] <Haohmaru> it should be the whole drive, since the
ISO contains a partition table and partitions
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604 [08:25:21] <Haohmaru> themill uhm, afaik, so that you know
it's "finished" after dd returns
605 [08:25:42] <themill> that's not what conv=sync does
though; that's about padding with nulls if the blocks are
different sizes
606 [08:25:52] <themill> dd …; sync
607 [08:26:07] <Haohmaru> o_O
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610 [08:26:32] <dx_ob> ok thnx
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616 [08:29:38] <Haohmaru> damn, i guess i've read the
conv=sync thing from some asklolbuntu forum and then assumed i know
what "sync" does x_x
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619 [08:30:36] <Haohmaru> so using "cp iso drive" does
all the sync magic?
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623 [08:31:51] <Haohmaru> altho i do like having some feedback
while waiting (status=progress)
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626 [08:32:34] <themill> you still need to run sync after.
status=progress is nice albeit potentially misleading since it will
complete before it has sync'd.
627 [08:32:52] <themill> the simpler syntax of cp over dd wins
for most people asking how to do this
628 [08:33:27] <SerajewelKS> conv=sync is mostly useless these
days, AIUI
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630 [08:34:09] <Haohmaru> okay, cp is indeed simpler to write
631 [08:34:14] <ctr> hey i try to put iso file on usb
632 [08:34:16] <Haohmaru> cp iso drive; sync ?
633 [08:34:21] <ctr> why does it not get recognise ?
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635 [08:34:31] <themill> the real command might help
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638 [08:34:47] <SerajewelKS> cat with shell redirection can write
images as well
639 [08:34:55] <SerajewelKS> there's only so many ways to
dump one file into a device
640 [08:35:00] <ctr>
replaced-url
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642 [08:35:06] <ctr> i download the 600 meg file
643 [08:35:09] <ctr> an put it on usb
644 [08:35:13] <ctr> is that not enough/
645 [08:35:18] <ctr> what am i doing wrong
646 [08:35:20] <themill> "put" is not a command.
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663 [08:38:29] <SerajewelKS> (conv=sync without noerror
doesn't really do anything different unless ibs != obs, which
is rarely done
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668 [08:39:39] <SerajewelKS> so using conv=sync by itself without
different ibs and obs sizes is the same as not specifying conv=sync
at all. i suspect it's one of those things that someone
suggested once in a specific situation that called for it and it
become the conventional wisdom to use it, recommended by people who
don't know what it really does.
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671 [08:40:31] <Haohmaru> wisdombuntu
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678 [08:41:59] <Haohmaru> i didn't expect "cp" can
do such thangs
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680 [08:42:10] <nevivurn> Why not?
681 [08:42:25] <Haohmaru> but i think i know what's
happening.. /dev/sdX can be opened as if it's a file, right?
682 [08:42:44] <themill> yes
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684 [08:43:08] <nevivurn> Everything is a file~
685 [08:43:33] <Haohmaru> so in theory, i can draw some picture
in gimp, and then save it as a jpeg with filename
"/dev/sdb" and it's gonna just.. do it..?
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689 [08:43:53] <Haohmaru> (assuming i got permission to)
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691 [08:44:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1538
692 [08:44:14] <SerajewelKS> if the gtk file save dialog lets
you, sure
693 [08:44:27] <Haohmaru> and i'll get jpeg shizzle instead
of a partition table, huehue
694 [08:44:44] <SerajewelKS> probably a terrible idea to run gimp
as a user who can manipulate raw devices
695 [08:44:51] <Haohmaru> of course
696 [08:45:24] <SerajewelKS> except in a few cases, linux
doesn't really protect you from yourself
697 [08:45:35] <Haohmaru> my collegue still sometimes logs into
the desktop environment as root x_x
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699 [08:46:02] <SerajewelKS> i did when i first started using
linux as well
700 [08:46:10] <themill> cp explicitly tries to open the target
file if it exists and then writes to it (as opposed to -f or
--remove-destination). Other programs may chose to move an existing
file away or delete it before writing to it, in which case that
behaviour would be different
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705 [08:47:22] <SerajewelKS> for writing images, i find the
intention of dd or 'cat image > device' to be clearer
than cp, so i prefer those forms
706 [08:48:01] <Haohmaru> i think i'll keep using dd,
because of status=progress, even if it's not super accurate, it
gives some feedback
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708 [08:48:41] <themill> the > redirection is incompatible
with the sudo worldview so sort of fades away these days
709 [08:49:08] <SerajewelKS> sudo sh -c 'cat image >
device'
710 [08:49:20] <themill> that you find clearer? ;)
711 [08:49:22] <SerajewelKS> but i usually prefer dd anyway
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713 [08:49:36] <SerajewelKS> clearer in intent than cp, yes
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716 [08:51:24] <Haohmaru> i might use "cp" for small
things where i won't bother doing dd .. status=progress
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718 [08:52:06] * Haohmaru learnt two new things today
719 [08:52:13] <SerajewelKS> pv output is nice too. sudo sh -c
'pv image > device'
720 [08:52:21] <SerajewelKS> gives you a progress bar and ETA
721 [08:52:43] <Haohmaru> i don't sudo, i log in with
"su -"
722 [08:52:51] <Haohmaru> then i "exit" when i'm
done
723 [08:52:52] <SerajewelKS> then just 'pv image >
device'
724 [08:53:02] <Haohmaru> i won't remember this
725 [08:53:30] <Haohmaru> but it's scary with linux how if
you type something random-looking, it might actually be a command :/
726 [08:53:53] <themill> Unfortunately for ctr, "put"
is still not a command....
727 [08:55:20] <ctr> it's cool i've given up on debian
for now
728 [08:55:26] <ctr> i'll try it later
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730 [08:56:55] <themill> ctr: it's impossible to tell you
what you did wrong if you won't tell us what you did. No need
to give up and try later.
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733 [08:58:42] <ctr> i just put it on a usb the iso file
734 [08:58:48] <ctr> like other os's like mint
735 [08:58:52] <themill> "put" is meaningless
736 [08:59:01] <ctr> i clicked the button
737 [08:59:05] <ctr> an wrote it to usb
738 [08:59:06] <themill> what button?
739 [08:59:17] <Haohmaru> smells like windows
740 [08:59:19] <ctr> the usb image writing button
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742 [08:59:22] <themill> dude, pretend that I can't see your
screen
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745 [09:00:00] <ctr> i have a usb image writing app
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747 [09:00:11] <Haohmaru> which one
748 [09:00:14] <themill> I assume there is no chance of you
telling us which one.
749 [09:00:14] <ctr> i used that an put it on usb
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752 [09:00:18] <ctr> im on mint
753 [09:00:44] <ekiro> I'm looking for a old wheezy package
which I can't find avauilable for dowbload
754 [09:00:46] <ctr> it doesn't say the exact name of it
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758 [09:01:02] <themill> ekiro: archive.d.o or snapshot.d.o
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760 [09:01:20] <Haohmaru> nasty, i hate programs that don't
clearly show you their actual names
761 [09:02:07] <BazookaTooth> mint has a few apps like that. i
think the image writer is a fork of rosa but don't remember
762 [09:02:10] <ctr>
replaced-url
763 [09:02:12] <ctr> this is the one
764 [09:02:13] <ekiro> themill sorry im not familiar with what
those are
765 [09:02:13] <ctr> i think
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767 [09:02:25] <SerajewelKS> ekiro: d.o = debian.org
768 [09:02:33] <ekiro> ah
769 [09:02:38] <themill> !archive.debian.org
770 [09:02:38] <dpkg> Debian has archives of no-longer-supported
releases at
replaced-url
771 [09:02:41] <ctr> you think it'll help if i download
another writer?
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775 [09:03:05] <Haohmaru> ctr after you download the iso,
it's a good idea to run a "sha" sum on it and compare
to the reference sha sums on the official server (or where you
downloaded it from) to make sure it's not downloaded corrupted
776 [09:03:23] <ctr> oh
777 [09:03:37] <Haohmaru> because such things do happen sometimes
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779 [09:03:42] <SerajewelKS> make sure that you got the right
arch, too. i accidentially downloaded the arm64 ISO once instead of
the amd64 ISO and spent over an hour trying to figure out why it
wouldn't boot.
780 [09:03:44] <ctr> so maybe just download it again
781 [09:03:51] <themill> ctr: just copying it on the command line
would be easier than installing some other tool
782 [09:04:00] <BazookaTooth> ^
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784 [09:04:05] <Haohmaru> ctr no, just run a sha sum first
785 [09:04:07] <themill>
replaced-url
786 [09:04:34] <ctr> i downloaded amd64
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789 [09:05:11] <Haohmaru> if the sha sum checks out - then
it's probably fine, write it onto the flash stick like it says
on the faq page ^
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793 [09:06:33] <ctr> ok thanks
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824 [09:24:50] <owen> Hey guys
825 [09:25:01] <owen> Whats up?
826 [09:25:13] <ayekat> what's your question?
827 [09:25:28] <owen> Hah i dont have one
828 [09:25:32] <owen> I am just here to hang out
829 [09:25:38] <owen> Hows yalls night going so far?
830 [09:26:33] *** Quits: dez (uid92154@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
831 [09:27:19] <owen> exit
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834 [09:28:46] * ayekat was about to reply that his night had died
about thre hours ago to make way for the morning... so "not
very well"
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871 [10:07:49] <SpeedyG> ayekat: guess that depends on your
location... 3 hours ago would've been 6.30AM where I am, not
too shabby for getting up ;)
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873 [10:08:37] <dpi_> 0
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982 [11:46:10] <ayekat> SpeedyG: yes, but the night wasn't
very well anymore - it was in the process of dying :-)
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986 [11:48:15] <ayekat> wait, I misread that
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988 [11:48:57] <ayekat> I guess it would have been well enough to
get at least one final drink
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1003 [11:55:45] <SpeedyG> haha
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1096 [13:01:10] <Greyztar> hello,im wondering its adviced to not
have 3rd party repositories when upgradeing,so if i remove those
programs and repositories is should be good doing an inplace
upgrade?
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1117 [13:19:26] <Elirips> Hello. Is 8GB should still be enough to
run debian 9 with kde 5? Only use is some browsing, emailing..
editing documents.
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1120 [13:20:33] <SpeedyG> i've got deb9 with gnome on 3GB...
so i'd guess yes...
1121 [13:20:48] <rdz> Elirips, I don't about KDE5, but my
Debian machines tend to be between 3-5GB in size
1122 [13:20:50] <SpeedyG> (assuming its RAM you're refering
to :) )
1123 [13:21:11] <rdz> Ah.. i was talking about storage
1124 [13:21:13] <Elirips> yes, its about ram
1125 [13:21:13] <SynrG> Greyztar: i don't know what's
advised currently. but i know in general that removal of repos can
make it more likely an upgrade will recommend removals of the things
you depend on from those repos when you're upgrading.
1126 [13:21:36] <SynrG> Greyztar: i guess it just depends on how
tangly the dependencies are.
1127 [13:22:05] <Greyztar> SynrG: thanks for input on the
matter,ill make backups when upgrade is due and give it a go atleast
=)
1128 [13:22:07] <SynrG> Greyztar: certainly life is easier if you
can make do without third-party software
1129 [13:22:30] <SynrG> Greyztar: and i guess re-installs
afterwards are possible
1130 [13:22:50] <Greyztar> SynrG: yes that was how i would go
about it
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1132 [13:23:11] <SynrG> sounds like a solid plan
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1134 [13:25:07] <piyush-kurur> any one having problems starting X
using startx after a recent update of debian testing
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1136 [13:25:51] <piyush-kurur> I git a screen with no x started
and if I switch the VT and come back it crashes with a EnterVT
unable to swithch to ... error
1137 [13:26:33] <piyush-kurur> I will try to get a xorg.log posted
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1153 [13:36:23] <Haohmaru> Elirips i use debian9 on machines with
2GB, but kde is just aweful, i use lxde
1154 [13:36:53] <Haohmaru> and be prepared to run out of RAM and
kill/restart the webbrowser from time to time
1155 [13:37:01] <Elirips> Haohmaru: we could start an infinite
discussion about kde, gnome, xde and so on ;)
1156 [13:37:19] <piyush-kurur> Here is the xorg log file
replaced-url
1157 [13:37:22] <Haohmaru> i forgot to put "IMO"
1158 [13:37:55] <Haohmaru> when lxde loads up, the system is at
like 250MB RAM usage
1159 [13:38:03] <Elirips> Haohmaru: what do you mean with run out
of ram due to the browser?
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1161 [13:39:01] <Haohmaru> go to one of those websites that load
more content into the page whenever they decide to, and the browser
memory usage only grows up
1162 [13:39:04] <Haohmaru> at least firefox
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1164 [13:39:47] <Elirips> okay, but that problem will persist also
if I buy 16GB of ram
1165 [13:39:57] <Haohmaru> yes
1166 [13:40:16] <Haohmaru> just the moment you hit the wall will
come a bit later
1167 [13:41:01] <qman__> modern web browsers are memory hogs
1168 [13:41:20] <qman__> 2GB is probably enough to support one tab
1169 [13:41:20] <Haohmaru> they do what the webpages tell them to
1170 [13:41:25] <Haohmaru> i blame the
replaced-url
1171 [13:41:49] <Haohmaru> nah, you can do more, depends which
websites tho
1172 [13:42:09] <jelly> I have to admit latest Chrome and Firefox
ESR don't seem to eat more than 12GB, and I have hundreds of
tabs open in both at the same time
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1175 [13:42:26] <Haohmaru> or well, if you're on kde then you
got just 1GB there iirc
1176 [13:42:43] <Haohmaru> that's why i wouldn't use kde
even if i liked it
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1178 [13:43:09] <jelly> Elirips: so 16GB seems quite enough
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1180 [13:43:20] <qman__> the pages are part of it but the browsers
themselves have changed a lot and hog memory
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1182 [13:43:38] <qman__> for example, 512MB is not even enough to
open the browser these days
1183 [13:43:51] <qman__> in 2005, I could browse a couple dozen
websites with that
1184 [13:43:56] <jelly> also: ad and js blocker extensions help.
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1186 [13:44:10] <Elirips> 16GB is enough for sure, I was thinking
of sticking to 8.. but well
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1188 [13:44:43] <Elirips> [ot] getting ot, but: Is there any
benefit in using two ram slots, instead of just one (for example, 2x
8GB instead of 1x 16GB)?
1189 [13:44:44] <jelly> 8GB + zram swap maybe
1190 [13:45:25] <jelly> Elirips: yes. A pair of sticks will make
ram access slightly faster than a single one double the size.
1191 [13:45:33] <qman__> if the board has dual channel, yes
1192 [13:45:37] <qman__> the memory bandwidth will double
1193 [13:46:08] <jelly> there is no board less than 10 years old
that would _not_ have memory channels arranged that way
1194 [13:46:16] <qman__> there are plenty
1195 [13:46:23] <jelly> (if we're talking about x86)
1196 [13:46:43] <qman__> low end stuff with single channel still
exists
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1198 [13:47:29] <qman__> you probably have dual channel, but you
might not, and any boards that don't definitely wouldn't
have more than 2 slots
1199 [13:47:33] <Haohmaru> qman__ yeah, firefox eats about 600MB
just to load "about:blank" x_x
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1201 [13:47:43] <Elirips> thx. will I ever notice that difference
in speed - in everyda use like browsing and emailing?
1202 [13:48:12] <jelly> no
1203 [13:48:26] <qman__> maybe, depends on the browsing you do, as
mentioned browsers and the modern web can actually get pretty
performance intense
1204 [13:48:45] <qman__> but it won't be a big difference
unless you have a heavy load
1205 [13:49:11] <Haohmaru> like a bitcoin digging banner ;P~
1206 [13:49:29] <jelly> that's why you use ad blockers.
1207 [13:49:36] <Haohmaru> but i don't
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1211 [13:49:49] <jelly> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
1212 [13:49:58] <Haohmaru> i'm constantly eyeballing the cpu
usage tho
1213 [13:50:20] <Haohmaru> <eyeballing_intensifies.gif>
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1215 [13:51:24] <karlpinc> Eyeballing makes CPUs boil hotter!
1216 [13:52:14] <Haohmaru> do you mean that the cpu meter itself
adds to the cpu usage?
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1219 [13:54:14] <karlpinc> I'm just working on clever
sentence construction. But now that you mention it, when I upgraded
to stretch my X, which runs over the network, slowed substantially.
Might be something turned off graphics acceleration on the X server.
Or.... Anyway, I'm really hoping it goes away in buster.
1220 [13:55:16] <karlpinc> I get like 1 or maybe 2 frames/second.
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1222 [13:56:14] <karlpinc> (Waving windows around the screen works
fine....)
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1366 [15:35:24] <tchakatak> hello, i would like to report bug in
the installer of buster, how shoud i do that ?
1367 [15:36:54] <greycat> !installation report
1368 [15:36:54] <dpkg> hmm... installation report is
replaced-url
1369 [15:37:23] <greycat> (should be the same for amd64 as well)
1370 [15:38:59] <tchakatak> Thanks, i will take a look around
there
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1397 [15:54:41] <EdePopede> i'm stuck another time with
my keyboard layout. maybe someone gets throug it. atm (may serve as
an example as it is my current issue) it is about the key near the
right shift on german layout. traditionally it is '- _'
(HYPHEN-MINUS; LOW LINE). but there's also AltGr as modifier
and nowadays AltGr+Shift and released AltGr (layer change?) etc.
[tbc]
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1402 [15:57:12] <EdePopede> now i used to create files in mc
(midnight commander, default build against ncurses) with some dash,
didn't care which one: AltGr+-, also used it in its internal
editor. with the upgrade to stretch things changed, now i have IBus
running and i memorized changes as from T2 layout to T3, mostly
meaning tons of new UTF codepoints directly available. also
depending on the settings in IBus Preferences.
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1404 [15:59:06] <EdePopede> just tried the classic AltGr+- and
instead of some hyphen it showed the replacement character in the
editor. `hd` tells me it inserted `C2` with the 2nd byte missing.
AltGr+Shift+- still works, produces 'e2 80 91 NON-BREAKING
HYPHEN'
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1409 [16:01:44] <EdePopede> now i turned off the settings in IBus
and a get an 'e2 80 93 EN DASH' again. and i don't
even want to think about Gtk, hexchat has this selection for Input
Method where i'm also never sure which one would be the one
i'd want. just to have an input alternative to xterm/ncurses
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1411 [16:03:30] <EdePopede> now mostly i'm wondering if
ncurses has its fingers on keyboard input. or if it is IBus only.
especially that non-complete 'c2' sequence is a weird
thing. any idea what's going on?
1412 [16:03:56] <greycat> ncurses and xterm have nothing to do
with each other
1413 [16:04:32] <greycat> there's the XKB layer in the X
server, and then there's the X11 input library layer
(XCompose), and then there's whatever happens in applications
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1419 [16:07:32] <EdePopede> mc has an option for 8-bit input, so
it really may do something here.
1420 [16:08:25] <EdePopede> ibus has nothing to do with BMW
i'd think?
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1423 [16:08:42] <greycat> you can try entering stuff via keyboard
in a vanilla xterm, or in a Tk text window, or in a web
browser's text area, and hope that one or more of those things
will not introduce any new mangling of the input
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1427 [16:10:24] <EdePopede> just threw an <input> into a
html file
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1430 [16:11:29] <greycat> (P.S. if you go with the xterm approach,
remember that a *shell* may also do input mangling, so you want to
run some command like 'cat' or 'od -tx1 -An'
...)
1431 [16:11:45] <EdePopede> i remember there are a number of
terminals based on the same library (xfc4-terminal being one of
them). and that they have some input input issue due to the library
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1433 [16:12:32] <EdePopede> i had read in bash and piped it to hd
1434 [16:12:55] <greycat> bash uses libreadline which can be
configured in a number of interesting ways
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1436 [16:13:38] <greycat> by default, it uses an input mode that
roughly mimics emacs
1437 [16:13:40] <colo-work> oh yeah, it's pretty awesome
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1439 [16:14:25] <colo-work> I discovered this nifty setting
lately:
replaced-url
1440 [16:14:29] <greycat> so, just typing "hd" and
pressing Enter is better than reading something into a shell
variable with "read" and then piping the variable through
hd
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1443 [16:17:42] <EdePopede> oh that's... wow.
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1446 [16:18:22] <greycat> Colored prefix was added in bash 4.4. It
was enabled by default in bash 4.4 pre-releases but disabled by
default in the final release for whatever reason.
1447 [16:19:05] <greycat> I haven't seen colored-stats
before. That one's new to me.
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1454 [16:20:04] <karlpinc> I can't handle color. I find it
too distracting and turn it off where ever possible. Mostly this is
pretty easy.
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1462 [16:24:04] <EdePopede> should the settings get listed by
`shopt` if on or not?
1463 [16:25:29] <greycat> readline settings go in ~/.inputrc or
/etc/inputrc or are invoked via "bind" and other commands
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1466 [16:26:41] <EdePopede> oh. i see. didn't mess with this
file for maybe years now.
1467 [16:27:12] <Tenkawa> karlpinc: I'm also almost
completely colorblind so I hear ya
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1479 [16:31:01] <t3st3r> karlpinc> on other hand, say, colored
dmesg allows to locate errors much faster compared to wall of
uncolored text.
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1484 [16:32:48] <karlpinc> Tenkawa: I probably have a mild brain
disorder or something that makes reading color ungood. I also
can't always see the letters when they're in blue. Which
may have more to do with the color temperature of my monitor or the
backround color or something else. Anyway, things usually work
better for me without color.
1485 [16:32:51] <jelly> karlpinc: a different palette mapping the
default 8/16 colors to other, more subtle colors, might be useful.
Look up "solarized", for example
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1487 [16:33:30] <Tenkawa> I definitely have brain damage.. was
born with it
1488 [16:33:36] <jelly> or completely different colors, to offset
your wetware bugs
1489 [16:34:00] <karlpinc> jelly: I don't want to have to
think too hard. :) I stick with a green on black terminal window and
live in those.
1490 [16:34:11] <EdePopede> coloured, not colorful. (if this even
makes sense in english)
1491 [16:34:16] <Tenkawa> blue is the only color i partially see
correctly
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1495 [16:34:48] <karlpinc> t3st3r: Occasionally color is useful. I
like it when a web page puts errors next to text fields in red.
(Which would be awful for someone color blind.)
1496 [16:34:58] <karlpinc> EdePopede: Makes sense in english.
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1501 [16:36:54] <bernyrd> Hello
1502 [16:37:11] <EdePopede> the 90s poured a year of smarties
production into the web, now we have material with colours from back
in the 50s or even everything grayed out. and desktops following
every time *sigh*
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1506 [16:40:12] <bernyrd> debian is bit grey I guss
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1509 [16:41:58] <t3st3r> karlpinc> also colored ls could
eventually be useful. Uncolored wall of text is slow to parse.
Though misuse of color easily makes it a mess.
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1511 [16:42:55] <t3st3r> same for "material design"
where it takes 3x time to find your battery or cell signal icon vs
usual one.
1512 [16:42:58] <karlpinc> t3st3r: My problem is the opposite of
color blind. Color screams. Which keeps me from the content.
1513 [16:43:42] <t3st3r> that's what I meant about screwing
it up: excessive coloring can kick out of context and make parsing
even harder.
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1515 [16:44:33] <EdePopede> t3st3r: color-ls, well. directories
blue on black. another dark desktop problem. can be changed, i know.
but most things are designed for bright desktops.
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1520 [16:46:12] <t3st3r> EdePopede> I don't get where it a
problem. Looks good for me on dark terminal.
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1522 [16:46:36] <t3st3r> Though I somewhat tweaked all colors in
xfce terminal to look good on black terminal.
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1529 [16:47:31] <EdePopede> t3st3r: i prefer to have a real black
when it is black. don't like brightening up the monitor too
much. but then it is dark blue. dark as in DARK. can see that
there's something, but reading, erm...
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1532 [16:48:28] <t3st3r> EdePopede> realistically one have to
distinguish between "light blue" and "dark
blue". Exact RGB value of color isn't absolute requirement
or so.
1533 [16:48:34] <EdePopede> same with the 80% lightgrey fonts on
webpages (the parts they don't really want you to read). only
there i also get snowblind with the time
1534 [16:49:12] <t3st3r> So my "dark blue" still looks
rather dark (and comfortable as e.g. mc) but seems to be visible on
black.
1535 [16:49:18] <EdePopede> t3st3r: xterm-256color. was a party
when i detected this one. mc looks MUCH better with 256 instead of
just 8/16 colors.
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1537 [16:49:44] <t3st3r> Maybe I've also used rather
readable/good looking font & antialiasing settings. Yea it could
be a bit challenging.
1538 [16:49:50] <EdePopede> mc's default blue backgroud is
kinda... aggressive or whatever. biting the eyes after some time
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1541 [16:50:42] <bipul> Hello what kind of package is openwatcom ?
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1543 [16:50:56] <bipul> I am unable to find it in debian
repository.
1544 [16:51:04] <t3st3r> EdePopede> I do use mc for speed of
file operations & navigation and ability to issue commands :)
rather than for irs outfit.
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1546 [16:51:53] <t3st3r> EdePopede> I've just tweaked
dark-blue to be well visible on one side but not aggressive in
things like mc on another side :)
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1548 [16:52:24] <EdePopede> same here, but with extensions
appended to the filename (we're not in DOS, right? :D) i like
to have even *some* filetype coloring
1549 [16:52:38] <t3st3r> it also took some fiddling with fonts and
their rendering. However it proven to be good for all terminal uses.
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1563 [16:54:29] <EdePopede> t3st3r: that's what i did in
hexchat after installing some theme. but then there are so many
levels where things could be changed. monitors, themes, rgb
settings... and things have to go together somehow. and that's
definitely me on the right side >
replaced-url
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1574 [16:56:08] <EdePopede> t3st3r: yep. default fonts for xterm
in debian. while selecting tiny and then resizing to the biggest one
should make the window wider and taller with every step inserts some
smaller font on the way. irritating this is.
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1584 [16:58:52] <t3st3r> Speaking for myself I don't rely
much on filetypes coloring. It not seems to speed up parsing if I
used sorting by extension already.
1585 [16:59:06] <conrado> htop f9kill
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1596 [17:01:08] <EdePopede> usually i sort by name or mdate,
depending on what i'm just doing. and somehow i can ignore text
in other colors, so when i go for something in brightblue i
don't even really read the other filenames while my eyes fly
over them.
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1606 [17:02:40] <t3st3r> for me sorting by m.date is rather exotic
and happens when I deal with things like browser downloads.
Otherwise it rather extension, so I can locate desired kind of file
faster.
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1610 [17:03:58] <EdePopede> i only do it when i have to know about
the latest changes. log dirs, or new files get created at that time
in the dir.
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1615 [17:05:37] <EdePopede> and i never use the mouse with mc.
seen a guy using nc back in the old days with the mouse, it really
was painful. just imagine all the steps needed to just select a
destination directory and then copy a file over.
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##replaced-url
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1626 [17:08:43] <t3st3r> I don't usually use mouse with mc
either I guess. Recent mc also got links-like nav by arrows. Speeds
up dir browsing hell a lot.
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1635 [17:14:53] <EdePopede> indeed. and then directory bookmarks,
user commands and history popups everywhere. but mostly it saves me
from doing `ls` all the time. using those things since my dos days
and never looked back (which includes everything that looks like
windows explorer)
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1644 [17:18:35] <t3st3r> EdePopede> I've used
"nc" as well, and that one wasn't netcat :)
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1653 [17:21:33] <naicen> debian china channel name?
1654 [17:21:46] <EdePopede> !cn
1655 [17:21:47] <dpkg> 如果您想要以中文得到 Debian
相關的協助，請加入 irc.debian.org 或 irc.oftc.net 上的 #dot
頻道，連線與加入頻道的方法請參閱 IRC
程式之相關說明，或於網路上搜尋。謝謝您的合作！
1656 [17:21:59] <naicen> ok
1657 [17:22:05] <EdePopede> hope this fits
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1679 [17:35:12] <Jacquelyn> oh yes
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1702 [17:47:38] <tgunr> I have noticed that nftables logging is
spewing log messages into my dmesg and I would like for that to not
happen. Been poking around trying to understand netfilter and
logging but have not yet found anything to address where the log
file is specified. At first I setup some rules in rsyslog.conf but
though they work, evidently netfilter in the kernel is still sending
to dmesg. How do I stop this? I need a clue.
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1730 [18:04:17] <DrBunsen> Hey, during reinstall I was able to
select my numeric numpad mapping. I selected the wrong one and now
my keypad works like an ATM. I haven't been able to change the
mapping of the keypad. I tried changing keyboard mapping and
googling, but I can't figure this out. Is there anyone with an
idea?
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1744 [18:12:21] <BCMM> DrBunsen: have you tried `dpkg-reconfigure
keyboard-configuration`?
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1747 [18:12:40] <tgunr> well, i figured mine out, use `group'
in the nftable rules to send the messages to different group
1748 [18:12:41] <krion> hello, trying to understand something
before saturday hit my eyes ^^
1749 [18:13:15] <krion> I don't get why unattended-upgrade
won't upgrade libc6 and linux-image* though they are not
blacklisted in unattended upgrade configuration
1750 [18:13:28] *** Quits: Guest18249 (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1751 [18:14:00] <tgunr> that unattended upgrade bit me in the ass
recently
1752 [18:14:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1589
1753 [18:14:05] *** Quits: Implied1116 (~Implied@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1754 [18:14:20] <tgunr> got stuck in update-initramfs and hung up
1755 [18:15:15] <DrBunsen> BCMM: no mention of the numpad :(
1756 [18:15:30] <tgunr> I turned it off, i will do the upgrades
myself thank you so I can fix if something like that happens
1757 [18:15:47] <jelly> krion: possibly because they're 100%
certain to require attendance (= reboot = downtine)?
1758 [18:15:56] <tgunr> Was hung up for almost 2 weeks before I
noticed
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1760 [18:16:45] <krion> jelly: unattended-upgrade got a auto
reboot flag, so not sure (iirc)
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1762 [18:19:04] <krion> gpgv [2.1.18-8~deb9u3] won't be
updated either, locales neither
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1766 [18:20:25] <krion> my allowed origins is ok, i really
don't get it
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1768 [18:21:52] <jelly> ,v gpgv
1769 [18:21:53] <judd> Package: gpgv on amd64 -- jessie:
1.4.18-7+deb8u5; jessie-security: 1.4.18-7+deb8u5; stretch-security:
2.1.18-8~deb9u2; stretch: 2.1.18-8~deb9u4; stretch-backports:
2.2.12-1~bpo9+1; buster: 2.2.12-1; sid: 2.2.12-1
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1771 [18:24:09] <krion> =)
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1775 [18:24:43] <n0rah3ss> hello
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1789 [18:29:08] <Scuzzy> HI all, anyone have any experience with
video playback issues? im on a fresh install and im getting very
slow, choppy playback with local content played using vlc & the
pre-installed totem player. i also have the same issue for web
content such as youtube, amazon & netflix etc. any help
appreciated :)
1790 [18:29:44] <krion> jelly: i got even more weird result when i
play with my security repo mirror and debian security mirror
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1800 [18:32:20] <krion> jelly: i found the debug flag, will help
;)
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1802 [18:33:03] * jelly eyes ````````````
1803 [18:33:09] *** Quits: BeerHall (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1804 [18:33:17] <````````````> hey cute stuff.
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1806 [18:33:42] * jelly blush
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1809 [18:37:14] *** ```````````` is now known as ravioli
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1813 [18:40:03] <BCMM> Scuzzy: what sort of graphics card have you
got, and what graphics driver are you using?
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1818 [18:42:46] <Scuzzy> i think the card is a nVidia 8400 series,
but im unsure of the driver. everything was working fine with my
previous install of 9.4.0, but i recently decided to do a fresh
install of the latest 9.8.0 and this is where i find this issue. how
can i find out the driver that it being used? :)
1819 [18:42:57] *** Quits: mklvr (~mklvr@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1820 [18:45:01] <BCMM> Scuzzy: you could pastebin
/var/log/Xorg.0.log if you want
1821 [18:45:05] <cryptodan> the 8400 is legacy and i believe
supported only up to nvidia 340
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1823 [18:47:42] <Scuzzy> i just looked in /var/log/ and i dont see
an Xorg file or folder?
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1827 [18:49:08] <BCMM> Scuzzy: oh, are you using wayland then?
1828 [18:49:29] <BCMM> i don't know much about nvidia +
wayland, other than things are a bit weird due to nvidia, as a
company, being a bit weird
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1833 [18:50:30] <Scuzzy> im not even sure what wayland is lol, im
just the ordinary user, i can figure most things out but this im
having trouble with lol :)
1834 [18:50:32] <n_1-c_k> My xorg logs are in ~/.local/share/xorg
1835 [18:50:51] <awer> seeing this error when trying to run
mimikatz.py as part of the impacket suite "ValueError: _type_
'v' not supported"
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1839 [18:51:42] <jhutchins_wk> awer: That doesn't sound like
a Debian issue.
1840 [18:51:50] <awer> same for 'ntlmrelayx.py'
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1842 [18:52:08] <awer> jhutchins_wk: yeah guess not. you knwo
where would be better suited?
1843 [18:52:12] <BCMM> Scuzzy: try `loginctl show-session 1 -p
Type`
1844 [18:52:30] <jhutchins_wk> awer: Wherever you got the python
code from, or general python support.
1845 [18:52:32] <BCMM> actually `echo $XDG_SESSION_TYPE` might be
better
1846 [18:52:37] <kion> I just discovered that Debian Buster does
not have ecryptfs, what should I use to encrypt things now?
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1848 [18:52:54] <awer> jhutchins_wk: ok thanks
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1852 [18:54:47] <Scuzzy> BCMM: returns with - Failed to get
session path: No session '1' known
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1857 [18:57:30] <BCMM> Scuzzy: what about `echo $XDG_SESSION_TYPE`
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1863 [18:58:50] <Scuzzy> BCMM: returns with X11 and nothing else
:)
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1888 [19:18:03] <jhutchins_wk> Scuzzy: I think we can assume
that's not wayland.
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1890 [19:19:43] <Scuzzy> i have just run: lspci | grep VGA and it
returns: 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation G98
[GeForce 8400 GS Rev. 2] (rev a1) if that helps with anything :)
1891 [19:19:46] <jhutchins_wk> I would expect /var/log/Xorg.0.log
1892 [19:20:06] <greycat> !xorg.0.log
1893 [19:20:06] <dpkg> xorg.0.log is in /var/log unless you are on
stretch-or-later and running X as non-root. Then it's in
~/.local/share/xorg/~
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1903 [19:25:22] <Scuzzy> how do i search or access that directory?
bit of a dumb question but i dont seem to be able to find it in the
file system
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1907 [19:26:40] <greycat> are you saying you don't have a
/var/log directory?
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1914 [19:29:18] <Scuzzy> i do have the /var/log directory,
however, there is no xorg file or folder, and i also dont see any
/.local/share/xorg folder. should the ~/.local/share/xorg/~ also be
found in the /var/log directory?
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1917 [19:31:11] <Scuzzy> i have a /var/local folder listed, but
has 0 items withing
1918 [19:31:14] <Scuzzy> within**
1919 [19:31:22] <jelly> the bot is confused, the file is
Xorg.0.log with a capital X
1920 [19:31:46] <jelly> dpkg, xorg.0.log =~ s/xorg.0/Xorg.0/
1921 [19:31:46] <dpkg> jelly: OK
1922 [19:31:56] <jelly> dpkg, xorg.0.log =~ s/~$//
1923 [19:31:56] <dpkg> jelly: that doesn't contain
'~$'
1924 [19:32:12] <greycat> dpkg, no, xorg.0.log is
<reply>Xorg.0.log is in /var/log/ unless you are on
stretch-or-later and running X as non-root. Then it's in
~/.local/share/xorg/ instead.
1925 [19:32:13] <dpkg> greycat: okay
1926 [19:32:26] <jelly> dpkg: curse your fake sed syntax!
1927 [19:32:26] <dpkg> May the fleas of a thousand camels infest
your most sensitive regions, your fake sed syntax!!
1928 [19:32:40] <Scuzzy> jaja
1929 [19:32:44] <Scuzzy> haha
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1931 [19:33:00] <jelly> it is allowed to laugh in spanish.
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1933 [19:33:23] <Scuzzy> lmao
1934 [19:33:41] <jelly> just keep the questions in english
1935 [19:34:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1595
1936 [19:35:20] <Scuzzy> will do. ok so i have just had a look
through some of the other folders in /var/log and found a folder
named Installer, and within is an Xorg.0.log, but i am unable to
open due to permissions
1937 [19:35:41] <jhutchins_wk> greycat: Thank you for that.
1938 [19:35:52] <Scuzzy> would this be the log i would need?
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1941 [19:36:05] <greycat> If the time stamp looks correct, maybe.
1942 [19:36:43] <Scuzzy> timestamped today at 14.27pm UK time
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1948 [19:41:57] <Scuzzy> it looks like i will have to log in as
root to be able to view the log file as it wont allow me to view or
make a copy of it.
1949 [19:41:59] <BCMM> Scuzzy: are you using the command line or a
file manager to look for those files?
1950 [19:42:08] *** Quits: m1sosoup (~m1sosoup@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1951 [19:42:17] <BCMM> Scuzzy: and do you know that files and
directories beginning with "." are hidden by default?
1952 [19:42:20] <Scuzzy> ive been trying both, until i found the
installer folder using the GUI
1953 [19:42:38] <greycat> but you're actually *in* a GUI...?
1954 [19:42:40] *** Quits: solsocog (~solsocog@replaced-ip ) (Quit: cya)
1955 [19:42:43] <Scuzzy> i didnt know that
1956 [19:42:44] <greycat> X is, like, running?
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1960 [19:43:15] <Scuzzy> greycat: yes, full GUI
1961 [19:43:23] <greycat> Is it by chance GNOME?
1962 [19:43:50] <jhutchins_wk> Scuzzy: It's best to not run
GUI components as root. Use su - in a terminal instead.
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1964 [19:44:07] <greycat> jhutchins_wk: may be a red herring
anyway, if he ran gdm3 -> gnome in stretch.
1965 [19:44:09] <BCMM> Scuzzy: /var/log/installer/Xorg.0.log
isn't your current Xorg logfile. it's left over from when
you first installed debian
1966 [19:44:15] <greycat> that's one of the cases that runs X
as non-root
1967 [19:44:17] <BCMM> (in case you wanted to debug the installer)
1968 [19:44:28] <jhutchins_wk> BCMM: That's not true here.
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1972 [19:44:42] <Scuzzy> i think it is gnome im running, i
selected that and cinnamon when installing
1973 [19:44:49] <BCMM> jhutchins_wk: oh, sorry. what is
/var/log/installer then?
1974 [19:45:00] <Scuzzy> myh desktop Ui looks fairly similar to a
windows based system
1975 [19:45:02] <greycat> If you run gnome by logging in from gdm3
in stretch, X gets run as non-root, so the log is in
~/.local/share/xorg/
1976 [19:45:04] <BCMM> Scuzzy: try exactly this command in the
terminal: `ls ~/.local/share/xorg/`
1977 [19:45:29] <greycat> I'm guessing he doesn't
understand that ~ is shell syntax for "my home directory".
1978 [19:45:44] *** Quits: Brigo (~Brigo@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1979 [19:46:08] <Scuzzy> BCMM: cannot access
'/root/.local/share/xorg/': No such file or directory
1980 [19:46:17] <greycat> *sigh*
1981 [19:46:25] <greycat> NOT after doing "su -". BEFORE
doing "su -".
1982 [19:46:25] <BCMM> Scuzzy: are you logged in as root?
1983 [19:46:28] <greycat> Or in a brand new terminal.
1984 [19:46:39] *** Quits: ens0 (~enso@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1985 [19:46:58] <Scuzzy> greycat: no i wouldnt have know that
either unfortunately. i am learning, slowly but im still learning
lol
1986 [19:47:01] <BCMM> Scuzzy indicated in their initial question
that Totem was pre-installed, which strongly suggests Gnome
1987 [19:47:11] *** Quits: err404 (~err404@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1988 [19:47:20] <greycat> he was also told to do "su -"
by someone well-meaning but mistaken
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1991 [19:48:18] <Scuzzy> BCMM: i get the same return for that
command both as non root, and also as root
1992 [19:48:58] <Scuzzy> BCMM: logged in as a standard user, non
root
1993 [19:49:01] <jhutchins_wk> greycat: I'm running xfce from
lightdm, and /var/log/Xorg.0.log appears to be owned by root (and is
current).
1994 [19:49:17] <greycat> jhutchins_wk: notice how you said
"xfce" and "lightdm" and I said "gdm3"
and "gnome"
1995 [19:49:41] <jhutchins_wk> greycat: Ok, so that's the
difference.
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1998 [19:50:13] <jhutchins_wk> I ran gnome once when I first
started using a GUI and was horrified. Never went back.
1999 [19:50:15] <Scuzzy> i had the option of gdm3 and lightdm when
installing, gdm3 was already selected so i left it alone
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2002 [19:53:09] <jelly> I log in to xfce with sddm
2003 [19:54:14] *** Quits: In33dt0kn0w (~In33dt0kn@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2004 [19:55:02] <Scuzzy> BCMM: my bad, when i opened a fresh
terminal, it automatically granted root due to another root terminal
already being open. i have just run your command again and it as
returned: Xorg.0.log Xorg.0.log.old
2005 [19:55:20] *** Quits: we6jbo (~we6jbo@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2006 [19:55:20] <greycat> That's the one you want, then.
2007 [19:55:22] <BCMM> Scuzzy: ok. that's where your xorg log
is then
2008 [19:55:47] <greycat> And gnome confuses yet another person by
doing something incredibly unintuitive.
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2011 [19:56:11] <BCMM> Scuzzy: i suspect the confusion is caused
by two factors: ~ stands for your home directory (so
~/.local/share/xorg/ expands to
/home/your_username/.local/share/xorg/), and .local is a hidden
directory
2012 [19:56:24] *** Quits: jfoy_ (~jfoy@replaced-ip ) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
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2014 [19:56:44] <BCMM> !pastebin
2015 [19:56:44] <dpkg> Do not paste more than 2 lines to this
channel. Instead, use for text:
replaced-url
2016 [19:56:54] *** Joins: n9nes (~n9nes@replaced-ip )
2017 [19:57:16] <BCMM> Scuzzy: you can use one of the services
listed above to post your ~/.local/share/xorg/Xorg.0.log here
2018 [19:57:25] *** Quits: ShakaJada (~RitamGrad@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2019 [19:57:25] <Scuzzy> i would never have known that lol. so i
have opened both of those log files with gedit (text editor) and
both are completely blank
2020 [19:58:23] <greycat> does "ls -l" in a terminal
show them with a size of 0 bytes?
2021 [19:58:54] <BCMM> Scuzzy: that seems a little unlikely...
2022 [19:59:10] <BCMM> Scuzzy: are you sure you've opened
those files, and not created new files with those names in some
other place?
2023 [19:59:18] *** Quits: Immanuel (~Manu@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2024 [19:59:21] <greycat> oh, good guess
2025 [19:59:35] *** Joins: err404 (~err404@replaced-ip )
2026 [19:59:37] <johnnyfive> Anyone have intimate knowledge of
apt? I'm building apt 1.6 inside bionic with some custom
changes, and installing it, but the changes don't seem to be
working. I can verify that my apt is the one running by "which
apt" (/usr/local/bin/apt). Trying to nail down why the changes
aren't appearing.
2027 [20:00:03] *** Joins: n1ce (~n1ce@replaced-ip )
2028 [20:00:12] <johnnyfive> I understand this is the debian
channel and not ubuntu, but it's not really distro specific
afaik. I think it's an apt specific thing, but not sure where
else to ask.
2029 [20:00:19] <sleepingforest> has anyone been able to get the
powerline fonts to work in debian? fonts-powerline package doesnt
seem to display the fonts on a default powerline config
2030 [20:00:23] <greycat> johnnyfive: check ldd to see which
libapt*.so* files it's using?
2031 [20:00:23] *** Joins: we6jbo (~we6jbo@replaced-ip )
2032 [20:00:39] <johnnyfive> greycat, ah right ty
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2035 [20:01:27] <BCMM> johnnyfive: could also be using standalone
executable components of your system's apt install, like
/usr/lib/apt/methods/*
2036 [20:02:27] <Scuzzy> greycat: it does appear that they are not
empty files, it does list the Xorg.0.log as 53000 and the log.old as
47000.
2037 [20:02:34] <johnnyfive> hrm, ok. Now to figure out how to
override this. Thanks
2038 [20:03:06] *** Joins: ompaul (~ompaul@replaced-ip )
2039 [20:03:13] <Scuzzy> BCMM: i used the command gedit Xorg.0.log
Xorg.0.log.old and it opened gedit with both files but displayed
nothing in either
2040 [20:03:18] *** Quits: discovered (~discovere@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2041 [20:03:29] <BCMM> Scuzzy: ok, but what directory did you run
that command in?
2042 [20:03:30] <greycat> which directory were you in when you ran
it?
2043 [20:03:34] *** Joins: pie3 (~pieee@replaced-ip )
2044 [20:03:43] <BCMM> Scuzzy: if you didn't cd before doing
that, you'll just be trying to create those files, in your
current directory
2045 [20:04:06] <BCMM> (i do apologies if i'm stating the
obvious, but directory is an older word for folder)
2046 [20:04:32] *** Joins: Vizva (~Vizva@replaced-ip )
2047 [20:04:36] <greycat> As a terminal user, the work flow is
"cd .local/share/xorg" and then "less
X<TAB>" and let tab completion write out the filename for
you. This guarantees you don't misspell the filename and that
you're in a place that actually has such a file.
2048 [20:04:52] <Scuzzy> ah ok, that explains what ive done there,
i thought it would be similar to editing an apt sources.list
2049 [20:04:58] <greycat> No, directory is the CORRECT and CURRENT
word.
2050 [20:05:13] <greycat> That's why ls -l shows
"d" in the first column for directories.
2051 [20:05:14] <Scuzzy> BCMM: i will cd it now
2052 [20:05:19] <greycat> That's why find -type d shows
directories.
2053 [20:06:03] <greycat> That's why test -d tests whether
something is a directory. And so on.
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2057 [20:07:47] <nkuttler> a folder is something where you see the
thing at the top first. i have never seen a file manager that
displays files inside directory as they would look in a folder
2058 [20:07:58] * nkuttler shrugs
2059 [20:08:25] <greycat> Windows users call them
"folders", totally abandoning the decades of history when
MS-DOS used "dir" to show the files in a dir-ectory.
2060 [20:08:48] *** Quits: In33dt0kn0w (~In33dt0kn@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2061 [20:08:48] <Scuzzy> ok i finally got there lol. sorry guys.
replaced-url
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2067 [20:09:56] <BCMM> greycat: to be pedantic, it originates with
Xerox (like all basic UI concepts in windows)
2068 [20:11:09] <greycat> And the reason it's called a
directory is because of how the original unix file system works. A
directory in a phone book. You look up a person's name and get
their phone number. Or in the case of files, you look up a file name
and get its inode number.
2069 [20:11:19] *** Joins: In33dt0kn0w (~In33dt0kn@replaced-ip )
2070 [20:11:20] <greycat> s/in a/is a/
2071 [20:11:33] <BCMM> Scuzzy: ok, you're using
"nouveau", the open-source driver for nvidia cards which
is maintained by the community. do you have an opinion on whether
you want to use that, or the official closed-source driver from
nvidia?
2072 [20:12:00] <Scuzzy> im sure you guys can tell i have only
been using debian for around 1 year. its like a whole different
world compared to windows. i am however, learning as i go and trying
to get used to the terminal.
2073 [20:12:18] <Scuzzy> BCMM: where would i look to see if i have
this option? :)
2074 [20:12:20] *** Quits: toorop (~toorop@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2075 [20:12:39] *** Joins: tower (~greg@replaced-ip )
2076 [20:12:43] <BCMM> Scuzzy: you definitely have the option of
using either driver. but you're using nouveau at the moment.
2077 [20:12:57] <Scuzzy> would i check the nvidia website for the
driver?
2078 [20:13:05] <BCMM> no, you can install it through debian
2079 [20:13:08] <greycat> No, just answer BCMM's questions.
2080 [20:13:09] <BCMM> usually people who want to play recent
video games use the proprietary driver from nvidia
2081 [20:13:26] <BCMM> otherwise nouveau is fine, for older
hardware
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2085 [20:13:47] <BCMM> in theory, both drivers should support
hardware accelerated video decoding on your card
2086 [20:13:51] <BCMM> see
replaced-url
2087 [20:14:03] <BCMM> so i'm not quite sure why video is
choppy...
2088 [20:14:40] <johnnyfive> Thanks BCMM and greycat resolving
those issues caused apt to begin using my custom compilation.
2089 [20:14:55] <BCMM> oh! what about firmware!
2090 [20:15:25] <Scuzzy> my system is not capable of playing video
games, its mainly just used for amazon, netflix etc.
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2093 [20:15:58] <BCMM> Scuzzy: it's possible that video
decode isn't working because you don't have the firmware
needed by your graphics card's video decoding unit
2094 [20:16:06] <Scuzzy> BCMM: i will check that website out now.
2095 [20:16:32] *** Quits: tower (~greg@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2096 [20:16:34] <BCMM> Scuzzy: you don't really need to look
at that site, just citing my claim that video decode should work
2097 [20:16:57] *** Joins: czart (~czart@replaced-ip )
2098 [20:16:58] <BCMM> Scuzzy: easiest way to check the firmware
is to run `dmesg | grep -i firmware` - you'll see an error
message if the system tried to load a firmware file, but
couldn't find it
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2103 [20:19:56] <Scuzzy> BCMM: i just used that command and i got
no errors
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2105 [20:20:03] *** Quits: wildeisonmine__ (~wildeison@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2106 [20:20:32] <BCMM> Scuzzy: any output at all?
2107 [20:20:54] *** Quits: In33dt0kn0w (~In33dt0kn@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2108 [20:20:56] <Scuzzy> nothing, as soon as i hit enter, terminal
was ready to accept another command
2109 [20:21:22] *** Quits: AlexNagySchool (~jnagyjr@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2110 [20:21:44] <sleepingforest> ok, it appears i needed the fonts
for powerline from the powerline-git repo and i needed to enable
bitmap fonts for Terminus
2111 [20:21:46] *** Quits: slv (~slv@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2112 [20:21:55] <sleepingforest> can anyone edit the debian wiki?
2113 [20:22:06] <sleepingforest> or only authorized members?
2114 [20:22:51] *** Quits: yoshi15 (~yoshi15@replaced-ip##) (Quit: ZNC 1.6.5+deb1+deb9u1 - ##replaced-url
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2123 [20:31:29] <Scuzzy> I going to head off for the night. thank
you to BCMM and greycat for all your help. I will likely be back at
it tomorrow and will join the channel and let you guys know how im
getting on with the issue. thanks again :)
2124 [20:32:08] <owen> Hey yall im awake
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2128 [20:33:51] <BCMM> sleepingforest: "Automatic account
creation disabled to stop spammers signing up. Please contact
wiki@debian.org and describe what you want to do in the wiki.."
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2143 [20:38:37] <KOLANICH> Hello everybody. How to add a package
into contrib?
2144 [20:39:20] <tgunr> prxmox really needs to switch to nftables
2145 [20:40:10] *** Quits: ompaul (~ompaul@replaced-ip ) (Quit: and zebedee said its time for other stuff)
2146 [20:40:13] <phazon> KOLANICH:
replaced-url
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2150 [20:42:58] <marz> Does Debian update the software at all in
stable? I notice a lot of the software is from the 2017 freeze.
2151 [20:42:59] *** Joins: v01d4lph4 (~v01d4lph4@replaced-ip )
2152 [20:43:07] <greycat> !stable
2153 [20:43:07] <dpkg> [stable] The status of a Debian release
when no packages will be added or version-bumped, and changes will
only fix security issues and critical bugs. Packages can be removed
in rare circumstances. The current stable version of Debian is
Stretch (9.x); ask me about <releases>. Security bugs are
fixed in stable by backporting the fix to the stable version (ask me
about <security backports>).
replaced-url
2154 [20:43:32] <marz> Damn
2155 [20:43:42] <marz> That’s a long time with any bumps
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2159 [20:46:56] <marz> Things work better for me on buster than
stretch for me.
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2163 [20:47:23] <platypo> vvor:?
2164 [20:47:52] <platypo> hi
2165 [20:49:03] <platypo> my question: using debian 9 i can't
get to the graphical login. Recovery mode or other ttys are working
though. When i mount /dev/mapper/home\var\tmp manually in recovery
mode i get to the loginmanager. I am not sure how to fix it, editing
fstab didn't work
2166 [20:49:09] <vvor> Can you get to a non GUI login?
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2169 [20:49:28] <platypo> vvor: yes. I can launch recovery mode or
other ttys
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2171 [20:51:07] <vvor> When you can not get to the GUI login can
you Ctrl+Alt+F3 and get a NON-GUI login?
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2174 [20:51:59] <platypo> yes
2175 [20:52:38] <platypo> that or a root-shell (recovery mode at
grub menu).
2176 [20:54:21] <platypo> like said whan i mount the partitions
for /var, /home, /tmp from there and exit the root shell i get to
the gui login fine
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2182 [20:55:36] <cmptr> When I do lspci | grep VGA only the Intel
driver is shown, and not the Nvidia one. I have installed
nvidia-driver and ran nvidia-modprobe and nvidia-modprobe -m
followed by a reboot and the nvidia-driver still does not show.
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2185 [20:56:21] <BCMM> cmptr: lspci is showing you *hardware*, not
drivers
2186 [20:56:39] <BCMM> cmptr: ... do you actually have an nvidia
graphics card?
2187 [20:56:40] <cmptr> Okay well that is even worse then.
2188 [20:56:43] <cmptr> Yes I do.
2189 [20:57:05] *** Joins: In33dt0kn0w2 (~In33dt0kn@replaced-ip )
2190 [20:57:11] <cmptr> I'm on a laptop zenboook UX550GE
2191 [20:57:12] *** Quits: In33dt0kn0w (~In33dt0kn@replaced-ip ) (Read error: No route to host)
2192 [20:57:21] <cmptr> It has a gtx 1050Ti
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2195 [20:58:01] <BCMM> cmptr: i guess that's an optimus
machine?
replaced-url
2196 [20:58:38] <cmptr> On my PC that has a GTX 1080Ti, it
wasn't and I just used the nvidia-driver package.
2197 [20:59:20] *** Quits: conta2 (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip ) (Quit: conta2)
2198 [20:59:40] *** Joins: ShakaJada (~RitamGrad@replaced-ip )
2199 [20:59:57] <cmptr> Oh, optimus is for laptops.
2200 [21:00:20] <platypo> vvor: i hope for some duct-tape fix for
this issue so i can use this setup until debian 10 is out
2201 [21:00:28] *** Quits: jhutchins_wk (~jonathan@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2202 [21:01:42] *** Quits: err404 (~err404@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2203 [21:01:44] <cmptr> Only 199 more bugs to be fixex. :)
2204 [21:01:52] <cmptr> Fixed*
2205 [21:02:36] <vvor> platypo: Login form the Non-GUI option
(with C-A-F3) *not from recovery mode* & reinstall the GUI login
manager.
2206 [21:03:16] <cryptodan> nvidia-prime replaced bumblebee
2207 [21:03:45] <platypo> vvor: KDE Plasma has no seperate login
manager es far as i know
2208 [21:03:52] <platypo> (wich is what i'm using)
2209 [21:03:55] <KOLANICH> phazon: Does debian accept packages
built fully automatically without human intervention? I mean
building a package on every succesful CI pipeline
2210 [21:04:47] <BCMM> platypo: KDE's standard display
manager is SDDM
2211 [21:05:01] *** Quits: Gazooo (~Gazooo@replaced-ip##) (Quit: The Lounge - ##replaced-url
2212 [21:05:14] <cmptr> Is there a way to undo what ever
nvidia-modprobe did?
2213 [21:05:29] *** Quits: zyley (~zyley@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2214 [21:05:40] <platypo> BCMM thank you
2215 [21:06:46] *** Joins: __jrjsmr_ (~jrjsmrtn@replaced-ip )
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2222 [21:09:06] <vvor> platypo: You can try to restart BCMM before
reinstalling it.
2223 [21:09:16] <platypo> vvor: just did that
2224 [21:09:26] <vvor> And...
2225 [21:09:29] <BCMM> i'm not a display manager
2226 [21:09:32] <platypo> vvor: it didn't work
2227 [21:09:37] <platypo> sry BCMM
2228 [21:09:41] <BCMM> :)
2229 [21:10:04] *** Quits: cmptr (~cmptr@replaced-ip ) (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2230 [21:10:08] <platypo> vvor: it isn't supposed to be run
by systemd
2231 [21:10:29] <vvor> Did you reinstall/
2232 [21:10:35] *** Joins: jcmesar (~jcmesar@replaced-ip )
2233 [21:10:35] <vvor> ?
2234 [21:10:35] <platypo> reenable
2235 [21:10:50] <platypo> is dpkg-reconfigure a possibility?
2236 [21:11:24] <vvor> Yep. But I would just reinstall.
2237 [21:11:43] <platypo> vvor: ok...
2238 [21:12:43] *** Quits: cryptodan (~cryptodan@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2239 [21:13:44] *** Joins: err404 (~err404@replaced-ip )
2240 [21:14:30] <platypo> vvor: i just tried dpkg reconfigure.
I'll have to restart now.
2241 [21:15:02] *** Quits: platypo (~bw@replaced-ip ) (Quit: (restart))
2242 [21:15:08] *** Quits: Ericounet (~Eric@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2243 [21:15:26] <vvor> See you soon...
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2259 [21:26:01] <platypo> vvor: apt-get install --reinstall sddm
exited with error code 2. I'm not sure what happens after next
reboot
2260 [21:26:02] *** Joins: carlwgeorge (sid144208@replaced-ip )
2261 [21:26:37] *** Quits: we6jbo (~we6jbo@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2265 [21:27:54] <yokowka> heavenO everysoul!!!! when will appear
debian 10?
2266 [21:28:23] <vvor> platypo: Did you apt-get update &
apt-get upgarde before all this started?
2267 [21:28:53] <greycat> When it's ready.
2268 [21:29:09] <vvor> platypo: Are you fully apt-dated
2269 [21:29:41] <platypo> vvor: i should have thought of that
before: apt isn't working properly wich is why i am in this
mess in the first place
2270 [21:30:05] <vvor> O^o
2271 [21:30:21] <vvor> So lets apt-get update & apt-get
upgarde first...
2272 [21:30:51] *** Joins: epony (~epony@replaced-ip )
2273 [21:30:55] <vvor> Login without GUI is fine.
2274 [21:31:17] <platypo> vvor: how do i start x from cli without
root privileges?
2275 [21:31:31] <vvor> No x
2276 [21:31:36] <platypo> here is what apt-get update gives me
replaced-url
2277 [21:31:45] <vvor> Just sudo apt-get update & apt-get
upgarde
2278 [21:32:11] <platypo> vvor: yes the question regarding x was
hypothetical
2279 [21:33:05] <platypo> i supposed a corrupt filesystem and i
guess my attempts to fix this messed up lvm somehow.
2280 [21:33:58] <SerajewelKS> ah i remember this paste :)
2281 [21:34:10] *** Joins: tikun (~David@replaced-ip )
2282 [21:34:25] <platypo> Hello SerajewelKS
2283 [21:34:30] <SerajewelKS> o/
2284 [21:35:00] <SerajewelKS> can you try 'rm -fr
/var/lib/apt/lists/*' as root? then re-run apt-get update?
2285 [21:35:17] <SerajewelKS> maybe run memtest on this system to
rule out RAM failure?
2286 [21:35:19] <platypo> SerajewelKS did all that allready a
while ago, didn't help
2287 [21:35:34] *** Joins: slv (~slv@replaced-ip )
2288 [21:35:35] <Kobaz> is there a way to get dhclient do not set
a default gateway
2289 [21:35:41] <Kobaz> i basically just want to query for an ip
2290 [21:36:48] *** Joins: jfoy (~jfoy@replaced-ip )
2291 [21:38:51] <platypo> vvor: so basically apt-get fails
retrieving updates
2292 [21:39:21] <vvor> platypo: wget
replaced-url
2293 [21:39:38] *** Joins: warai_otoko (~warai_oto@replaced-ip )
2294 [21:40:16] <vvor> And install it: sudo dpkg -i
debian-archive-keyring_2017.5_all.deb
2295 [21:41:08] *** Quits: Haudegen (~quassel@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2296 [21:41:14] *** Joins: jmarsac (~jmarsac@replaced-ip )
2297 [21:41:19] <platypo> vvor error:
2298 [21:41:22] <platypo> dpkg: warning:
'start-stop-daemon' not found in PATH or not executable
2299 [21:41:22] <dpkg> platypo: That isn't enough detail,
post the whole output to a pastebin (/msg dpkg pastebin).
2300 [21:41:28] <SerajewelKS> vvor: we went over that before. the
key files are there, which makes it even weirder.
2301 [21:41:39] <SerajewelKS> platypo: good lord. this box is
fucked then, that's a system script.
2302 [21:41:50] <SerajewelKS> vvor: (like a week ago i think)
2303 [21:41:59] <SerajewelKS> platypo: wipe the system and restore
it from a backup
2304 [21:42:01] <greycat> platypo: is this on buster?
2305 [21:42:08] <platypo> greycat no, stretch
2306 [21:42:21] <greycat> well, either your PATH is messed up, or
something is badly broken
2307 [21:42:37] <platypo> greycat PATH is an env variable right?
2308 [21:42:40] <greycat> yes
2309 [21:42:58] <SerajewelKS> considering weird read errors in
random directories, apt-key showing keys but apt-get update
complaining that said keys are missing, i think this box is done
2310 [21:43:03] <greycat> On stretch, when you do "su"
or "sudo", it should put /sbin and /usr/sbin into PATH for
you.
2311 [21:43:19] <platypo> one sec
2312 [21:43:35] <SerajewelKS> run memtest and check smart status
of the disks. my guess is one or both will show faults.
2313 [21:43:43] *** Joins: baptist (~baptist@replaced-ip )
2314 [21:43:46] <platypo> $PATH as root gives: bash:
/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin: No
such file or directory
2315 [21:44:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1602
2316 [21:44:12] *** Quits: In33dt0kn0w (~In33dt0kn@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2317 [21:44:13] <greycat> OK, then you're missing some
programs that are supposed to be there.
2318 [21:45:04] <platypo> greycat: this is bad
2319 [21:45:34] *** Joins: In33dt0kn0w (~In33dt0kn@replaced-ip )
2320 [21:45:50] <SerajewelKS> you need to verify that the hardware
is good before going further
2321 [21:46:01] <platypo> smart properties of the device are all
good
2322 [21:46:18] <vvor> platypo: You did have an LVM or file system
problems before that?
2323 [21:46:23] *** Quits: Slashman (~Slash@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2324 [21:46:30] <SerajewelKS> ok. burn the memtest iso and boot
from that and let it run for a few hours.
2325 [21:46:39] <platypo> vvor: no, everything worked fine
2326 [21:46:53] *** Joins: sk_tandt__ (~sk_tandt@replaced-ip )
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2328 [21:47:16] <vvor> What's the filesystem?
2329 [21:47:32] <platypo> vvor:?
2330 [21:47:43] <vvor> ext4?
2331 [21:47:47] <platypo> SerajewelKS: problem is: memtest86
isn't installed
2332 [21:47:56] <vvor> NTFS
2333 [21:47:57] <SerajewelKS> platypo: does the system have an
optical drive?
2334 [21:47:58] <vvor> :)
2335 [21:48:07] <platypo> vvor: everything ext4 except /boot
2336 [21:48:15] <platypo> SerajewelKS: no
2337 [21:48:49] <SerajewelKS> platypo: assuming it has USB then.
download the appropriate memtest image onto a different system, put
it on a spare USB key and boot the other system from it.
replaced-url
2338 [21:49:16] *** Quits: slv (~slv@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
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2340 [21:49:31] <SerajewelKS> platypo: do you have backups of this
system?
2341 [21:49:48] *** Quits: hanfm (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2342 [21:49:52] <platypo> SerajewelKS: yes
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2350 [21:52:29] <vvor> platypo: dmesg | grep -i --color error
2351 [21:53:05] *** Joins: baptist (~baptist@replaced-ip )
2352 [21:53:28] <platypo> vvor: among other things i get this: [
10.935159] EXT4-fs (dm-0): re-mounted. Opts: errors=remount-ro
2353 [21:53:54] <SerajewelKS> that's normal
2354 [21:53:55] <platypo> the other lines are about an usb-device
i don't think that concerns my issue
2355 [21:54:02] *** Quits: jhutchins_wk1 (~jonathan@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2356 [21:55:00] <vvor> platypo: e2fsck -vf /dev/sdX
2357 [21:55:14] <platypo> vvor: from Terminal?
2358 [21:55:25] <SerajewelKS> not a good idea while the filesystem
is mounted rw
2359 [21:55:45] <SerajewelKS> it would be dm-0 anyway
2360 [21:56:09] *** Joins: fstd_ (~fstd@replaced-ip )
2361 [21:56:27] <platypo> vvor: what is the difference between
e2fsck and fsck?
2362 [21:56:33] <greycat> if you want to force an fsck of the root
file system, the only way I know is to boot from alternative media
(installer, rescue CD, etc.)
2363 [21:56:49] <greycat> e2fsck is specific to ext2/ext3/ext4
2364 [21:57:01] <greycat> fsck is a wrapper that calls the
appropriate one
2365 [21:57:06] *** Joins: jhutchins_wk1 (~jonathan@replaced-ip )
2366 [21:57:07] <SerajewelKS> greycat: there's also the
'touch /forcefsck && reboot' trick
2367 [21:57:12] <greycat> SerajewelKS: not in systemd
2368 [21:57:17] <SerajewelKS> ah right, systemd
2369 [21:57:22] <platypo> SerajevelKS i think forcefsck is
obsolete now
2370 [21:57:32] <greycat> apparently nobody has created a way to
do that in systemd yet
2371 [21:57:45] <greycat> or if they have, we don't know it
2372 [21:57:56] <SerajewelKS> of course not, why should you ever
need to check you root filesystem if you're running systemd
2373 [21:57:57] *** Quits: In33dt0kn0w (~In33dt0kn@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2374 [21:58:02] <SerajewelKS> your*
2375 [21:58:37] <platypo> i don't get it. I did fsck on /var
from rescue CD before and it didn't show any errors
2376 [21:59:01] *** Joins: nullbyte_ (~null@replaced-ip )
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2379 [21:59:52] <platypo> thanks for your help all, btw
2380 [21:59:54] <SerajewelKS> i mean you're missing system
utilities, i think trying to repair it is a lost cause at this point
2381 [22:00:06] *** Quits: jhutchins_wk (~jonathan@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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2384 [22:00:17] <platypo> SerajewelKS ok but how does it run in
the first place?
2385 [22:00:17] <greycat> and they're missing from root, not
from /var
2386 [22:00:30] <platypo> greycat: this is new, scince yesterday
2387 [22:00:45] <SerajewelKS> greycat: right but we're also
seeing weird errors reading files from /var/lib/apt
2388 [22:00:57] *** Joins: cmptr (~cmptr@replaced-ip )
2389 [22:01:04] <SerajewelKS> my money is on bad disk or bad ram
2390 [22:01:07] <greycat> well, "dpkg -S
/sbin/start-stop-daemon" shows that it's in the dpkg
package. So to get that one back, for example, you need to reinstall
the dpkg package.
2391 [22:01:14] <cmptr> How can I identiy what display driver is
currently being used?
2392 [22:01:21] *** Quits: pie3 (~pieee@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2393 [22:01:23] *** Quits: olegfusion (~olegfusio@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2394 [22:01:34] <SerajewelKS> platypo: just because there is some
damage doesn't mean everything is damaged. obviously enough
isn't damaged that the kernel can boot and the userspace can
somewhat start.
2395 [22:01:38] <greycat> cmptr: find the X log file, read it by
hand. There is no single command that will just spit out the answer.
You need human intelligence.
2396 [22:01:57] *** Quits: Zppix (uid182351@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2397 [22:02:00] <greycat> Because the X log file shows *multiple*
drivers, but only the one that shows up a lot is the one it's
finally using.
2398 [22:02:21] <platypo> SerajewelKS i think other sbin commands
run fine
2399 [22:02:33] <SerajewelKS> platypo: because they aren't
missing/damaged, yes
2400 [22:02:43] <greycat> platypo: what else is missing besides
start-stop-daemon?
2401 [22:02:51] *** Joins: RedSoxFan08 (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip )
2402 [22:03:08] <platypo> greycat i don't know how to
determine this
2403 [22:03:08] *** Quits: sdoubleyou (~sdoubleyo@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2404 [22:03:11] <SerajewelKS> platypo: you're on a boat and
there's a leak. is your answer "okay but not ALL the rooms
are flooding, maybe i can just close the door to that room?" or
do you get the hell off?
2405 [22:03:37] <platypo> SerajewelKS: yes my hope was to keep it
running until Debian Buster is out
2406 [22:04:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1595
2407 [22:04:13] <SerajewelKS> considering i've seen you
around for a few weeks dealing with these strange issues, i'd
say that probably not feasible
2408 [22:04:25] <SerajewelKS> unless the system is non-critical.
then just turn it off and wait for buster.
2409 [22:05:06] <platypo> SerajewelKS that takes ages... i need
another solution i guess
2410 [22:05:17] <vvor> platypo: Boot from a live CD. check: HDD,
RAM. come back if it passes.
2411 [22:05:18] <greycat> SerajewelKS: in the boat analogy,
I'd take note of the size and location of the leak.
2412 [22:05:40] <platypo> vvor: isn't ram checked at POST?
2413 [22:05:44] <SerajewelKS> indeed. that's why i'm
suggesting to look at disk smart indicators and run memtest.
2414 [22:06:01] *** Joins: rpifan (~rpifan@replaced-ip )
2415 [22:06:01] <SerajewelKS> platypo: "checked" the way
you open the hood of your car and say "yeah this all looks
fine"
2416 [22:06:09] <SerajewelKS> you're only going to catch
obvious problems
2417 [22:06:41] <SerajewelKS> memtest runs lots of different tests
and tries to stress the RAM
2418 [22:06:48] <platypo> I am not familiar with memtest. I have
it now as pre compiled gz archive. I'll burn it to a disk
scince the M/B doesn't support USB booting
2419 [22:06:59] <SerajewelKS> burn it to a disk?
2420 [22:07:02] *** Quits: Ignacy (~Ignacy@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2421 [22:07:10] <SerajewelKS> i asked you if the system has an
optical drive earlier and you said no
2422 [22:07:24] <vvor> platypo: Get
replaced-url
2423 [22:07:31] <platypo> SerajewelKS: oh optical... i mistook it
for holographical and thought it was a joke
2424 [22:07:54] <SerajewelKS> :P
2425 [22:08:05] <vvor> You need memtest for the RAM they both have
it.
2426 [22:08:21] <cmptr> It says video bus is tagged as keyboard...
Does that sound normal?
2427 [22:08:21] <vvor> And HDD test too.
2428 [22:08:37] <platypo> vvor: ok thanks so far
2429 [22:08:47] <vvor> You burn them to USB and run the test.
2430 [22:08:49] <platypo> it is for ext too
2431 [22:09:03] <SerajewelKS> ext?
2432 [22:09:11] *** Joins: aPpYe (~aPpYe@replaced-ip )
2433 [22:09:22] <platypo> ext file system
2434 [22:09:31] <SerajewelKS> ??? is what for ext?
2435 [22:09:39] <SerajewelKS> what are you asking?
2436 [22:09:51] <platypo> the HDD test from ultimatebootcd/cpr_kit
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2438 [22:10:25] <SerajewelKS> ah
2439 [22:10:38] <cmptr> But it does seem that the driver still
being used is Intel.
2440 [22:10:53] <vvor> platypo: Do only generic test, MAKE SURE
YOU HAVE A BACKUP!!!
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2446 [22:11:43] <platypo> generic != proprietary? Or is that a
menu option in the program?
2447 [22:11:44] <vvor> platypo: Start with memtest, if fails your
done. Get new RAM.
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2449 [22:12:34] <vvor> platypo: The HDD manufactures proprietary
test are fine.
2450 [22:12:34] <platypo> ok ok, i think i get it. I'll burn
the ultimatebootcd iso to disk now for start
2451 [22:14:00] <karlpinc> vvor: Used to be that the BIOS ram
tests were barely adequate. Nice thing about running memtest86+ is
that you can run it overnight to give the hardware the chance to
come up to temperature and catch heat-related problems.
2452 [22:14:20] <vvor> platypo: Ahhh See you sooooon :)
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2457 [22:15:30] <vvor> karlpinc: platypo In this case I would
start with a quick one pass test.
2458 [22:15:53] <gubernator> Hello -- According to my bluetooth
settings, I am connected to a bluetooth device, but my audio is
playing through my laptop speakers. Running Debian KDE.
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2461 [22:16:39] <gubernator> Debian Stable, that is
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2465 [22:18:43] <phazon> KOLANICH: you'd need to supply build
scripts / configs that can duplicate the binary; ideally 1:1 with a
reproducible build
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2471 [22:21:06] <phazon> KOLANICH: this can further be discussed
in the wnpp and with the mentor/sponsor; they're usually a
helpful bunch
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2474 [22:22:58] <phazon> they'll at least help you get the
pkg into experimental; if you wish to pursue it further and get into
sid is entirely up to you
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2489 [22:33:35] <phazon> KOLANICH: you may also try
#debian-mentors over at irc.oftc.net
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2525 [23:05:01] <ksk> ,v phpmyadmin
2526 [23:05:02] <judd> Package: phpmyadmin on amd64 -- jessie:
4:4.2.12-2+deb8u2; jessie-security: 4:4.2.12-2+deb8u5; stretch:
4:4.6.6-4; sid: 4:4.6.6-5
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2531 [23:10:09] <platypo> ok i'll try the system recovery.
See you soon or maybe not. Thank you for helping
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2551 [23:24:12] <Deihmos> unstable and sid repo are the same right
?
2552 [23:24:24] <Deihmos> some say to change repo to sid and
others say unstable
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2556 [23:28:35] <allorder> yes
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2560 [23:30:53] <Deihmos> I thought there was no way to install it
but i see it listed as an option on the mini.iso
2561 [23:31:39] <cheapie> Deihmos: You're only supposed to
choose it on there if you want to test new versions of
debian-installer.
2562 [23:31:57] <cheapie> (or something like that, the details are
kinda vague)
2563 [23:32:19] <cheapie> If you just want to install sid, AFAIK
the recommended way is to install stable and then upgrade.
2564 [23:32:37] <Deihmos> That’s what I read
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2567 [23:33:38] <greycat> At this particular moment in time,
installing buster (alpha installer) and upgrading is also feasible.
2568 [23:34:00] <greycat> This gives the benefit of extra testing
of the buster installer. Though YOU may not necessarily see that as
a benefit.
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2576 [23:36:58] <UserUS> so Jessie was removed from the mirror
network for debian is that correct?
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2581 [23:38:38] <greycat> Only jessie-updates.
2582 [23:38:42] <greycat> well, and backports.
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2584 [23:39:44] <greycat> Backports were archived, I believe, and
jessie-updates is simply gone.
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2595 [23:44:24] <UserUS> greycat, I have a GitHub enterprise with
backports, should I just update it to deb.archive?
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2599 [23:47:11] <karlpinc> UserUS: You may as well just remove
jessie-updates. There won't be updates aside from whatever
happens with long-term support to the regular repo.
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2602 [23:53:27] <UserUS> karlpinc, ok thanks
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