Realtime Nick Name Ticker of #debian at freenode (ICQ IRC service)

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223[05:12:01] <cfoch> Hello
224[05:12:54] <cfoch> is it normal if the dev-sda1.device takes 5.110s to load at boot time?
225[05:13:39] <cfoch> I've read of a guy that got its full system booting up in just 4 seconds
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256[06:18:46] <zumba> hi folks. I'm running apt-get update but I'm not sure if getting this error will affect something. Maybe I added a ppa few weeks ago - replaced-url
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259[06:21:36] <zumba> do I just manually remove it from soures.list.d?
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261[06:24:55] <zumba> mv ~noob* apt-get update worked now withour error
262[06:25:12] <zumba> i mean mv noob* ~
263[06:26:36] <zumba> what about "Package 'docker-ce' has no installation candidate" on debian wheezy?
264[06:27:45] <zumba> found this - replaced-url
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268[06:32:22] <zumba> i'm good now, docker-ce installed
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279[06:52:12] <zumba> What are your thoughts on putting your services in docker containers in production? Is it ready?
280[06:52:35] <zumba> Just saw this "Docker on Debian is major no-go: There is a wide range of bugs in the AUFS driver (but not only), usually crashing the host, potentially corrupting the data, and that’s just the tip of the iceberg."
281[06:52:45] <zumba> from replaced-url
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286[07:15:18] <Gigglebyte> jim> You still awake?
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366[08:54:44] <rakor> Is there a way to control the currently running mediaplayer (spotify) from the screensaver in Gnome? In cinnamon there is an integration in the screensaver.
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372[08:59:19] <pantato> so I kinda screwed up a sid upgrade and lost packages that apparently are needed for my sound output device
373[08:59:28] <pantato> anyone know the magic meta package for me to install?
374[08:59:44] <pantato> alsamixer launches...but gnome settings just show a dummy output device
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387[09:13:19] <michael2> I setup FDE (with / and swap partition encrypted via LVM) using debian installer, but I accidentally corrupted the MBR and boot partition. i.e. I can't boot the system, but I do know the LVM FDE password. My question is: can I access the contents of this encrypted partition off a live USB or something?
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419[09:43:58] <pantato> gchcetiH: i screwed up and edited my sources.list incorrectly in an attempt to upgrade from debian stretch to debian sid, then ran auto remove. Upon resolving the sources.list mistake and running dist-upgrade, then rebooting, i lost my sound output device(s) in my gnome sound settings. Alsamixer is installed and running. lspci shows the correct audio device, but there doesn't appear to be the correct software to utilize
420[09:44:05] <pantato> woops didn't mean to include that user name
421[09:44:18] <pantato> can someone help me with this problem? i *really* don't want to reinstall tonight
422[09:44:41] <BCMM> pantato: is Pulse running?
423[09:45:05] <pantato> BCMM: when I run alsamixer it says pulse is the output device, i think. So I'm thinking it's running
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425[09:45:44] <pantato> BCMM: pulseaudio --check yields no ouput, so yes
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430[09:52:21] <BCMM> pantato: what does `aplay -l` show?
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432[09:52:40] <BCMM> (i.e. a check that the sound card exists as an alsa device, not just as a pci device)
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441[09:59:14] <pantato> BCMM: it appears to show pch hdmi
442[09:59:22] <pantato> BCMM: I think that is correct?
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446[10:00:08] <pantato> BCMM: after installing some random packages i was able to get a couple of unitek y-247a devices to appear in the sound settings but they aren't it
447[10:00:37] <BCMM> that would be typical for a machine with onboard intel audio + an hdmi port, yes...
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455[10:04:29] <ayekat> hullo... I just noticed that the systemd user session on debian either hardcodes XDG_CONFIG_HOME to ~/.config, or is started *before* processing pam_env for the user
456[10:05:11] <JustASlacker> meh
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458[10:05:22] <ayekat> unfortunately I'm a bit lost in that jungle of /etc/pam.d files and the user@.service file (et al), so... could anyone give me some pointers to where I can look to fix this?
459[10:06:22] <JustASlacker> did you check /etc/default ? probably not in there but you never know
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461[10:06:48] <ayekat> actually, systemctl --user show-environment tells me that indeed the user session is started before processing pam_env.so (none of the variables are set)
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463[10:07:04] <no_gravity> Good Morning
464[10:07:04] <ayekat> JustASlacker: thanks, I'll check there
465[10:07:22] <JustASlacker> just a shoot in the dark
466[10:07:27] <JustASlacker> shot even
467[10:07:30] <no_gravity> In the terminal, is there an easy way to let the user edit one or more strings?
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469[10:07:52] <no_gravity> Some shell program that kinda turns an html form into a terminal form or something?
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473[10:08:43] <JustASlacker> are you looking for a terminal brwoser? w3m is kinda good
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476[10:09:19] <no_gravity> JustASlacker: Not really a browser. In my shell script, I want to let the user edit some strings.
477[10:09:28] <ayekat> JustASlacker: there isn't anything related in the /etc/default files, unfortunately :-|
478[10:09:42] <ayekat> I'll ask on #systemd - maybe they know where this is handled
479[10:09:48] <no_gravity> Like name: Joe___ age: _28 city: ____
480[10:09:54] <ayekat> thanks anyway ^^
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486[10:16:56] <Orbstheorem> Hello, where can I find an example package using the '3.0 (git)' format?
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489[10:20:55] <Nazcafan> hi, why/how doesn't apt-get auto-remove doesn't apply to old versions of linux-image-xxx-blah package? My undersrtanding is that they were automatically installed so should be taken care of when a new version is used as a dependency of linux-image-xxx
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492[10:23:59] <Orbstheorem> Nazcafan: afaik, the current system image won't be removed, and I'm not sure whether a couple of previous version of the kernel image are kept "Just in case" (versions in the recovery menu on grub?). I don't know how to change this
493[10:25:43] <Nazcafan> Orbstheorem: I am happy with this state of affairs, as the kernel is critical enough that I'd rather delete versions manually when I feel comfortable, but I'd like to understand how apt-get overrides the auto-installed + no reverse dependency rule for specifically those packages
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505[10:43:06] <no_gravity> I wonder if I can let the user 'cancel' somehow if I use vim to let them edit a string.
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512[10:53:53] <ayekat> alright, I learned that for the PAM files, `systemd --user` follows a different path than the login shell, and pam_env.so was not actually loaded in too late, but not at all
513[10:54:34] <ayekat> adding session required pam_env.so user_readenv=1 in /etc/pam.d/systemd-user (before the pam_systemd.so line) fixed this for me
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548[11:26:03] <yctn> a machine with debian is not booting i end up in grub rescue error: unknown filesystem with ls (hd) i can view the disklayout just fine. i already ran fsck on the partition. how should i proceed?
549[11:28:27] <yctn> correction. with ls i get on every partition unknown filesystem
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551[11:34:46] <soul-d> inspect it with a workinging system /live cd then probably prepare a new disk for data rescue
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553[11:36:17] <soul-d> if disk sounds fine you might be able to get some smart data see if it reports a hardware failure there
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558[11:37:12] <soul-d> assuming its platter disk
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560[11:37:38] <yctn> soul-d yes its platter disk no ssd, i can mount and read the disk just fine using a live cd
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562[11:38:43] <soul-d> maybe you updated and one of those automated grub update script failed ?
563[11:39:07] <yctn> soul-d no i didnt ran any updates the machine just went down while running
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565[11:39:43] <yctn> soul-d i would say if i can read the disk just fien when mounting i should be able to get it to boot right? from the grub rescue?
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567[11:40:49] <soul-d> mmm
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573[11:41:51] <soul-d> first gues would be corruption of data , but if you ran server with services to internet maybe box got compromised?
574[11:42:16] <yctn> soul-d yeah i think corruption of data is a possebility yes
575[11:42:17] <soul-d> nothing in dmesg or other logs
576[11:42:21] <soul-d> ?
577[11:43:14] <yctn> soul-d hmm the /var folder is gone
578[11:44:07] <yctn> soul-d i gues a reinstall would be a good idea
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581[11:45:33] <soul-d> still would be nice to figure out why though
582[11:46:01] <yctn> soul-d yeah true but how
583[11:46:07] <soul-d> id have hard time trusting the same disk if it was corruption
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586[11:50:38] <soul-d> some hardware stress test might be good blender (3d app) now has a stand alone benchmark thingy (500mb ~ though )
587[11:50:49] <soul-d> and maybe the basic memory tests etc
588[11:52:58] <fpat> you could take one or multiple tests from the phoronix test suite
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598[12:04:16] <blackflow> there's sysbench, no need for moronix or blender.
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600[12:09:28] <fpat> blackflow: why do you disrespect the phoronix test suite?
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604[12:13:29] <blackflow> fpat: because it's a joke, unscientific tests for fun and profit with no value.
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607[12:14:12] <fpat> thats a lot of hot air which you blow out to talk bad about the work of somebody else. where is your work when i may ask?
608[12:15:14] <fpat> only scientific work, of course
609[12:15:22] <blackflow> you're in the wrong chan for this discussion. I think you need #idontcarewhatyouthink
610[12:15:36] <fpat> blackflow: says who?
611[12:17:11] <fpat> you did not even manage to get a project cloak nor can you name any project which you work on
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648[13:02:17] <tobra> Hello I’m trying to troubleshoopt what's probably a faulty HD. Currently I have `mount /dev/mapper/videos /media/tobra/data2` returning: "mount: /dev/mapper/videos: can't read superblock"
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688[13:41:11] <Orbstheorem> Hello, I have a python library with no installation script. I want to package it for debian, I want it to be uninstallable in a clean manner. I'm not so convinced about the setup.py since it's a free script. Are there other ways to package my library or setuptools is the way to go?
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691[13:44:28] <themill> is it an application or a module?
692[13:45:58] <darxmurf> hum, how to get the error code of a loop like: while read xyz; do...; done < <(command)
693[13:46:00] <Orbstheorem> Both: a library with two applications (client/server)
694[13:46:01] <darxmurf> ?
695[13:46:04] <Orbstheorem> themill: ^^
696[13:46:12] <darxmurf> my command is a mysql batch query
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698[13:46:52] <Orbstheorem> themill: I have three directories: /proot/src/my_lib, /proot/src/my_server, /proot/src/myclient
699[13:46:55] <themill> Orbstheorem: making a simple setup.py makes the most sense then. It would only be 15 lines or so and you can contribute it back to the project
700[13:47:10] <Orbstheorem> (It's my project ^^(
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702[13:47:23] <themill> 2 birds, 1 stone.
703[13:47:27] <darxmurf> $? equals 0 even if the mysql server in the querry is not accessibl e
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706[13:48:46] <themill> darxmurf: not entirely an answer to your question, but this is normally the point where I realise I should have written it in something else.
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708[13:49:56] <darxmurf> thanks :D
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711[13:51:24] <moldy> hi
712[13:52:22] <moldy> any idea how to recover from this? replaced-url
713[13:52:44] <darxmurf> moldy: apt-get install -f
714[13:52:48] <moldy> a dirty fix would be fine, too, i am probably going to reinstall the box soon anyway. but right now i'd like to be able to install debian packages :)
715[13:53:18] <moldy> darxmurf: replaced-url
716[13:53:38] <moldy> darxmurf: same with apt-get instead of apt
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718[13:53:56] <darxmurf> did you run apt-get update before ?
719[13:54:01] <themill> darxmurf: replaced-url
720[13:54:21] <moldy> darxmurf: yup
721[13:54:29] <darxmurf> themill: I'll have a look thanks !
722[13:54:41] <darxmurf> moldy: did you install/try to install something specific ?
723[13:54:56] <darxmurf> or an obscure downloaded package ?
724[13:55:02] <themill> darxmurf: replaced-url
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726[13:55:43] <themill> moldy: sounds like an interesting mixture of jessie and stretch you have there
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732[14:03:09] <moldy> themill: yup
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734[14:03:46] <moldy> themill: how did you see that? :)
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736[14:04:49] <themill> only locales in stretch has «Depends: libc-bin (>> 2.24),» as reported there and that would only not be satisfied in the case of a mixture with jessie.
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739[14:05:58] <moldy> themill: i see :)
740[14:06:05] <moldy> themill: any idea how to recover from this?
741[14:09:50] <darxmurf> what did you do exactly to end up in this situation ?
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743[14:12:52] <moldy> darxmurf: no idea ;)
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746[14:13:56] <moldy> blew the dust off an old box i haven't used in some time, ran a dist upgrade
747[14:14:19] <themill> !show sources.list
748[14:14:20] <dpkg> Please pastebin the contents of your /etc/apt/sources.list and /etc/apt/sources.list.d/*.list. The easiest way to do this is to pastebin the output of: head -v -n -0 /etc/apt/sources.list{,.d/*}
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750[14:15:56] <moldy> themill: replaced-url
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752[14:16:27] <jak2000> hi all
753[14:16:33] <jelly> dpkg, ping
754[14:16:33] <dpkg> Sorry jelly, you're not online.
755[14:16:50] <themill> moldy: what does "apt-cache policy" say?
756[14:17:34] <jak2000> i have 2 pcs both configured same, sources.list and network point to sam egateway same dns-nameserver.... both do ping to 8.8.8.8 but 1, not work: aptupdate, any advice how to fix?
757[14:17:44] <moldy> themill: replaced-url
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760[14:18:49] <themill> moldy: that's all uncontroversial. Does "aptitude upgrade" manage to do anything? If it gets stuck, how about "aptitude full-upgrade"?
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765[14:24:33] <moldy> themill: trying
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767[14:28:08] <moldy> seems to take quite a while :)
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769[14:29:22] <darxmurf> moldy: did you directly run dist-upgrade or apt-get upgrade before ?
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771[14:31:46] <jak2000> any advice why: replaced-url
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773[14:34:06] <moldy> darxmurf: i ran it various times, cannot reproduce what exactly caused the current state
774[14:35:00] <jelly> jak2000: is interface and link up on the "bad" machine?
775[14:35:38] <jelly> jak2000: look at "ip a" and "ip r" or "ifconfig -a" and "route -n" output
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777[14:37:22] <BCMM> jak2000: it sounds like maybe you have an internet connection, but no working DNS server
778[14:37:40] <BCMM> jak2000: you said you can ping 8.8.8.8, but can you `ping google.com`
779[14:37:42] <BCMM> ?
780[14:39:10] <BCMM> also, is one of your "PCs" a bare-metal install, and the other one a VM?
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785[14:41:24] <BCMM> jelly: anyway, check the contents of /etc/resolv.conf on both machines, to confirm that DNS settings have actually been applied
786[14:41:33] <BCMM> sorry, i meant to highlight jak2000 ^
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792[14:52:37] <Orbstheorem> I still haven't figured out how can I tell the `setup.py` script that I need 3 outputs
793[14:52:41] <Orbstheorem> :(
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795[14:54:32] <Li> the fucking dell touchpad jumpping all over the screen and not able to click anything before 4 attempts ... I've read/installed libinput crap but still the same issue .. any help would be appreciated
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797[14:55:26] <Li> installed synaptic driver which not installed by default as well nothing changed
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799[14:55:54] <Li> this is really irritating
800[14:56:27] <onagadori> is your numlock on
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818[15:16:51] <jhutchins> Li: You need to determine what the actual hardware is. lspci -nn should give you a list that you can find the touchpad in.
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820[15:17:36] <jhutchins> Li: It would also help to know which release you installed.
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825[15:21:52] <nindustries> Hi, anyone proficient with postfix? It just exits after postfix/postfix-script: starting the Postfix mail system in Docker
826[15:22:25] <nindustries> I run it with postfix -v -c /app/conf start-fg
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828[15:22:48] <msl09> guys I'm doing something wrong with reading form nested loops
829[15:22:50] <msl09> replaced-url
830[15:23:54] <msl09> wait
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834[15:24:49] <ayekat> msl09: your `read x` reads from $param1
835[15:25:06] <msl09> yeah, but why?
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838[15:26:28] <ayekat> msl09: because you tell it so - the part after the pipe gets its stdin data from the part before the pipe
839[15:26:44] <ayekat> every read in there thus reads from what you pipe into it
840[15:27:49] <Li> jhutchins: 4.9.0-6-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.9.82-1+deb9u3 (2018-03-02) x86_64 GNU/Linux, but lspci -nn didn't show anything related to touchpad
841[15:28:12] <msl09> crap
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843[15:28:17] <msl09> what can I do about it?
844[15:28:19] <Li> I see all other devices being listed but no touchpad!!! could it be different name?
845[15:28:36] <ayekat> msl09: I would probably just do IFS=, and for p1 in $param1; do read x...
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847[15:29:49] <ayekat> (maybe read up on IFS before blindly copying my example ^^)
848[15:30:07] <msl09> yeah I know how IFS works
849[15:30:16] <msl09> or better I think I know ;)
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852[15:37:37] <msl09> ok I give up
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854[15:37:43] <msl09> I'll just use python
855[15:38:08] <msl09> three hours is too much for such a simple script
856[15:41:28] <jelly> nindustries: enable syslog in that container, look at logs.
857[15:44:10] <RoyK> msl09: I've never bothered to use bash for parsing things like that - I just use perl (or perhaps python)
858[15:45:11] <msl09> the reason I like to stay away from python is because it gets annoying when dealing with subprocesses
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860[15:46:12] <msl09> bash is better well equipped for that (and I need that very frequently)
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864[15:48:49] <jelly> yeah, because bash doesn't have a lot built in
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880[16:02:59] <ayekat> bash still has built in enough that you can just transform that comma-separated list into an array, then for-loop over it and normally read x from stdin...
881[16:03:28] <ayekat> it's not overly powerful, but it can still do at least that much :-)
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887[16:06:52] <RoyK> msl09: replaced-url
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889[16:07:03] <greycat> oh god, stack overflow
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892[16:08:01] * greycat looks upward a few lines. Is this "comma-separated list" really a comma-separated list, or is someone parsing lines from a "CSV" file?
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896[16:10:10] <ayekat> true... I'm starting to think this is just an XY problem
897[16:10:12] <greycat> If it's a *.csv file, then the format is not really standard. Fields can contain internal commas and newlines, and various kinds of quoting/escaping are used to protect these things, or to indicate data "types".
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900[16:11:20] <greycat> But if it really is a comma-separated list (not a csv file), then: IFS=, read -ra array <<< "$list"
901[16:11:47] <greycat> (assuming no internal newlines)
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928[16:34:48] <ksk> haha yeah, I could tell you stories about scripts that parse a "CSV" and end up killing everything: "I did not expect this character"
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942[16:43:46] <SerajewelKS> greycat: i fixed my server's weird grub issues, if you're interested. figured i'd follow up.
943[16:44:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1272
944[16:44:06] <SerajewelKS> i moved /boot out of the ext4-in-lvm-in-raid1-in-gpt into its own partition
945[16:44:12] <SerajewelKS> all the problems went away
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947[16:44:39] <SerajewelKS> so either there's a bug in grub's support of those layers, or there's some weird BIOS oddity on this machine preventing grub from reading the disk properly in some cases, or a combination
948[16:45:14] <SerajewelKS> it's just strange to me that it wasn't a problem for like a year and then suddenly it was
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957[16:52:29] <omarek> Is there something I can do to obtain the 'column' utility with -o option ? It's very useful when formatting Markdown tables in Vim.
958[16:53:02] <omarek> The version in repositories is an old one, a BSD version incorrectly labeled as newer.
959[16:53:50] <greycat> Which system do you see this "-o" option on?
960[16:54:13] <SerajewelKS> make sure you're using vim and not vim-tiny, too
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964[16:55:22] <greycat> I checked OpenBSD and FreeBSD man pages on the web and didn't see it on either.
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966[16:56:01] <omarek> greycat: replaced-url
967[16:56:04] *** Joins: fm (~fm@replaced-ip)
968[16:56:06] <omarek> The answer with 6 upvotes
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970[16:56:27] <SerajewelKS> oh column, not vim. i misread.
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972[16:56:49] <omarek> greycat: replaced-url
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975[16:57:03] <greycat> Which says, since you are too lazy to paste it, "as of v. 2.23 column from util-linux"
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977[16:57:39] <SerajewelKS> ,info bsdmainutils
978[16:57:40] <judd> Package bsdmainutils (utils, important) in stretch/amd64: collection of more utilities from FreeBSD. Version: 9.0.12+nmu1; Size: 181.7k; Installed: 566k; Screenshot: replaced-url
979[16:58:23] <greycat> In that case, I guess the answer to your question is, "Grab util-linux 2.23 or later source code, compile it, and install the column command in your ~/bin or /usr/local/bin"
980[16:58:24] <omarek> greycat: ...and the version from "util-linux" is the bsd version.
981[16:58:47] <greycat> Hope that you don't break any scripts that rely on the behavior of /usr/bin/column
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983[16:59:14] <greycat> To be 100% safe you could give it a non-conflicting name, like ulcolumn or something.
984[16:59:30] <SerajewelKS> omarek: it's not in util-linux, it's in bsdmainutils
985[16:59:52] <greycat> Are you saying that a random stackexchange link was WRONG?! omg.
986[17:00:20] <jelly> ,v util-linux
987[17:00:21] <judd> Package: util-linux on amd64 -- wheezy: 2.20.1-5.3; jessie: 2.25.2-6; stretch: 2.29.2-1; stretch-proposed-updates: 2.29.2-1+deb9u1; stretch-security: 2.29.2-1+deb9u1; buster: 2.32-0.4; sid: 2.32.1-0.1
988[17:00:26] <SerajewelKS> nah. i'm saying i don't think it's talking about debian.
989[17:00:40] <greycat> We know that. That's why I said grab the source and compile it.
990[17:01:02] <omarek> SerajewelKS: the 'column' utility lives in both packages.
991[17:01:06] *** Quits: chele (~chele@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
992[17:01:09] <omarek> greycat: See above and apologize.
993[17:01:17] <SerajewelKS> omarek: no it doesn't...
994[17:01:22] <SerajewelKS> replaced-url
995[17:01:33] <greycat> SerajewelKS: that's DEBIAN's package, not upstream.
996[17:01:39] <greycat> Grab UPSTREAM.
997[17:01:58] <SerajewelKS> yes i know, i thought omarek was talking about debian packages
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999[17:02:44] <omarek> I'll try upstream.
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1001[17:03:45] <omarek> I'll fix this and give it a non-conflicting name. Have a nice day.
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1051[17:45:20] <woshty> Latest backports kernel broke suspend-to-ram on my old notebook. Anyone else complaint about that?
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1055[17:49:40] <jelly> how old a notebook?
1056[17:50:45] <tobiasBora> Hello,
1057[17:50:59] <tobiasBora> Any idea why sometimes the printer gets disabled?
1058[17:51:24] <tobiasBora> I then need to reenabled it with cupsenable
1059[17:51:34] <greycat> I would look for logs.
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1062[17:54:24] <tobiasBora> greycat: the last error that I can read in /var/log/cups/error_log is E [12/Aug/2018:15:10:33 +0200] [Job 958] Stopping unresponsive job.
1063[17:54:35] <tobiasBora> but why does it disable the printer?
1064[17:55:25] <jelly> probably because the printer is failing at processing (that one old) job(s)
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1066[17:55:52] <jelly> tobiasBora: what if you wipe that particular job from the queue?
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1068[17:56:48] <tobiasBora> jelly: well now the queue is empty, and as soon as I can re-enable manually the printer, everything rocks
1069[17:56:59] <tobiasBora> jelly: but I just don't understand why it disables the printer
1070[17:57:10] <tobiasBora> i'm wondering if it has to do with ErrorPolicy
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1073[17:57:46] <greycat> It seems reasonable to assume that if the printer fails to print something, that you wouldn't want to send MORE jobs to it, until the issue has been resolved.
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1076[17:58:11] <greycat> Then again, printing is voodoo.
1077[17:59:05] <tobiasBora> greycat: well this problem occurs quite often, and people in the house are very unfamiliar with printing stuff so if they need to manually enable the printer when it refuses to print... I'll kill them.
1078[17:59:20] <tobiasBora> I already created a script that restart cups and enable the printer in case of a problem
1079[17:59:29] <tobiasBora> but if I can understand why this problem occurs...
1080[17:59:44] <tobiasBora> i saw that I can use "ErrorPolicy abort-job"
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1085[18:01:07] <tobiasBora> I set it up, hope it will solve the problem ;)
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1088[18:02:57] <greycat> replaced-url
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1094[18:05:18] <greycat> although it's describing older versions of CUPS
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1097[18:06:48] <cmouse> why does dpkg-buildpackage -F lead into dpkg-source: warning: ignoring deletion of file m4/cc_retpoline.m4, use --include-removal to override
1098[18:06:51] <cmouse> for all source files
1099[18:08:00] <cmouse> before that it says, 'diff: standard output: Broken pipe
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1102[18:10:05] <tobiasBora> greycat: yes, I tried to setup abort-job, hope it will be fine.
1103[18:10:07] <tobiasBora> Thanks!
1104[18:11:03] <jelly> cmouse: are you using unusual settings or env. vars?
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1106[18:11:08] <jelly> !ask
1107[18:11:08] <dpkg> If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
1108[18:11:16] <cmouse> jelly: not that I know of...
1109[18:11:26] <cmouse> trying to debug our own software's packaging
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1111[18:11:42] <cmouse> seems it expected me to unpack it first
1112[18:11:51] <cmouse> curious
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1128[18:23:49] <n4dir> is there a way to find out which init system is running?
1129[18:24:17] <greycat> ls -ld /sbin/init
1130[18:24:54] <n4dir> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 43532 Feb 12 2017 /sbin/init
1131[18:25:12] <greycat> Then it's not systemd....
1132[18:25:18] <greycat> Are you sure it's even Debian?
1133[18:25:35] *** Parts: cmouse (cmouse@replaced-ip) ()
1134[18:25:51] <n4dir> yes, it is debian, i set it to use sysv instead. Ages ago. My other PC died, so i quickly wanted to check which init system is running.
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1136[18:26:49] <jelly> n4dir: "cat /proc/1/comm"
1137[18:27:13] <n4dir> jelly: that just says "init"
1138[18:27:23] <jelly> right, and if it says "systemd" it's systemd
1139[18:27:25] <greycat> because for some reason your /sbin/init is not a symlink, just a regular file
1140[18:27:46] <n4dir> so usually /sbin/init should link to the init system used?
1141[18:27:52] <jelly> no
1142[18:28:06] <jelly> at least not on jessie. Not sure about stretch,
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1144[18:28:48] <jelly> -rwxr-xr-x. 1 root root 40648 Apr 6 2015 /sbin/init # jessie w/ sysvinit-core
1145[18:29:34] <jelly> and I have no idea what runit-init looks like
1146[18:30:00] <greycat> Me either. I've never heard of anyone actually using runit except on the mailing list, and they didn't give details.
1147[18:30:11] <n4dir> and whatever else is there ... :-)
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1149[18:30:51] <greycat> systemd is the only fully supported one in stretch; sysv is *kinda* supported mostly, and runit... who knows
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1152[18:32:25] <n4dir> last question, if i may: a way to figure it out would be to look at /etc/default/grub, where, at least for me, it is set?
1153[18:33:24] <greycat> apparently if /sbin/init is NOT a symlink, then it's sysvinit
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1156[18:34:13] <jelly> there was a dude over the weekend complaining of runit-init breaking after going to buster
1157[18:34:24] <jelly> so someone was using it
1158[18:35:16] <n4dir> at the forum when the ubuntu init had a hype, folks fooled around a lot with init systems. I don't remember much more though.
1159[18:35:41] <greycat> startup and upstart were never supported in Debian afaik
1160[18:36:19] <n4dir> yeah, it was kind of experements, iirc (i for one haven't seen much sense in doing it, but it seem to have worked. Well: at least for an afternooon )
1161[18:36:36] <n4dir> but anyway: thanks to both of you for the info.
1162[18:37:20] <jelly> yeah, RHEL6 and ubuntu 14.04 still use upstart, and some openvz/virtuozzo images on weird providers did that during... around squeeze? wheezy?
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1164[18:37:40] <jelly> I've never heard of startup.
1165[18:38:22] <greycat> maybe I was mistaken in thinking they both existed, and that one was Ubuntu's and the other was RHEL's
1166[18:39:11] <greycat> wikipedia confirms that RHEL adopted Ubuntu's upstart for a time
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1168[18:40:43] <greycat> In any case, grub wouldn't be able to tell you, because grub just runs /sbin/init, and it's the target of /sbin/init (when it's a symlink) that determines what actually runs.
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1170[18:42:48] <n4dir> hm. here it would work, i think: GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="init=/lib/sysvinit/init"
1171[18:43:25] <greycat> that's not from a standard Debian config file
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1174[18:43:43] <greycat> or at least none that I've ever seen
1175[18:44:04] <n4dir> yup. sure. As said i changed it.
1176[18:44:42] <n4dir> but if i wouldn't i would know that systemd is running (problem being that on this system i couldnt remember if i changed it or not. duh)
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1179[18:49:37] <greycat> replaced-url
1180[18:51:29] *** Quits: AimHere (~David@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1181[18:51:30] <jelly> definitely
1182[18:52:04] <greycat> OK, then I'll go out on a limb and assume that it's correct for stretch, and edit accordingly.
1183[18:52:05] <n4dir> to make it worse the file /lib/sysvinit/init doesn't exist here. I am more confused than before.
1184[18:52:13] <greycat> n4dir: you're on jessie?
1185[18:52:23] *** Joins: johndoe173648 (~johndoe17@replaced-ip)
1186[18:52:27] <n4dir> sorry, i only can tell you the version: 9.5
1187[18:52:33] <greycat> .... fuck
1188[18:52:41] <greycat> maybe it was only correct in jessie and has changed in stretch
1189[18:52:53] <jelly> it's not correct in jessie _now_
1190[18:53:11] <jelly> sysvinit-core 2.88dsf-59 provides a regular file /sbin/init
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1193[18:53:58] <jelly> maybe something I evaded installing dpkg-diverts to /lib/whatsits
1194[18:54:04] <greycat> Damn it all. OK, I'll just have to put in weasel-phrases like "might be".
1195[18:54:22] <jelly> at least you're able to log in to the damn wiki
1196[18:54:57] <jelly> ,v sysvinit-core
1197[18:54:58] <judd> Package: sysvinit-core on amd64 -- jessie: 2.88dsf-59; stretch: 2.88dsf-59.9; buster: 2.88dsf-59.10; sid: 2.88dsf-59.10
1198[18:56:06] <jelly> ,file /sbin/init --release jessie
1199[18:56:09] <judd> Search for /sbin/init in jessie/amd64: upstart: sbin/init; sysvinit-core: sbin/init; systemd-sysv: sbin/init
1200[18:56:23] <jelly> ,file /sbin/init --release buster
1201[18:56:28] <judd> Search for /sbin/init in buster/amd64: runit-init: sbin/init; sysvinit-core: sbin/init; systemd-sysv: sbin/init
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1205[18:57:15] <jelly> clearly we need to package s6-init with enabled systemd compatibilty, stir some shit up
1206[18:57:47] <jelly> (it's YAdaemontools with some nifty features)
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1208[18:59:05] <greycat> ,v nosh
1209[18:59:07] <judd> No package named 'nosh' was found in amd64.
1210[19:03:03] <goose> I've got a question about doing a volume level restore from a backup. The SSD I had Debian installed to died. I have a volume level backup of /dev/sda via my backup program (Veeam Endpoint). When I do a volume level restore of my backup to the new /dev/sda once I get my drive replaced, will I need to change anything in /etc/fstab, or elsewhere, to ensure a successful first boot? The replacement drive is the
1211[19:03:05] <goose> same make/model/capacity (Getting replaced under
1212[19:03:07] <goose> warranty), but a different serial number and I assume a different UUID
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1215[19:08:12] <Humatiel> I would confirm the UUID in your fstab but depending on how you set it up it may not matter. If your fstab is set up as a label identifier for instance instead of by UUID
1216[19:09:21] <Humatiel> Other then that their shouldn't be an issue.
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1218[19:10:02] <jelly> goose: no, but depending on partition table format and new disk size some tools might complain
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1220[19:10:29] <jelly> UUIDs will not change unless your restore tool specifically tampers with them
1221[19:10:48] <goose> Ok, even though it's a new disk?
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1223[19:11:04] <jelly> fstab UUIDs are properties of filesystems, not block devices
1224[19:11:13] <goose> Oh. TIL.
1225[19:11:39] <goose> Ok, well I *assume* Veeam will correctly restore my /, /boot, and swap. We'll see!
1226[19:11:39] <jelly> (just like LABELs really)
1227[19:12:10] <jelly> if it restores the whole disk as-is and the new on is exactly the same size as the old one things ought to basically Just Work™
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1229[19:12:49] <goose> haha, TM
1230[19:12:53] <goose> Well, thanks, I appreciate that
1231[19:12:59] *** Parts: Movablyqueryingl (camaelmatr@replaced-ip) ("User left")
1232[19:13:17] <jelly> if however it restores each partition and forgets to restore the boot code, things might be problematic (in case of MBR/BIOS format and booting)
1233[19:14:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1272
1234[19:14:24] <goose> That would be shitty, but I could just do a fresh install and then file level restore everything, assuming Veeam maintains proper permissions
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1236[19:15:25] <jelly> you'd just need to reinstall grub manually
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1238[19:16:08] <jelly> (if it's GPT format and UEFI booting, the piece of boot code is actually just an EFI program on the EFI boot partition and will presumably get restored properly)
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1241[19:16:37] <cmouse> is there a way to depend on dh-systemd without making it mandatory for building?
1242[19:16:47] <cmouse> so that same control would work on jessie and stretch?
1243[19:16:49] <jelly> do you mean build-depend
1244[19:16:52] <cmouse> yes.
1245[19:17:12] <jelly> all build-depends are mandatory AFAIK
1246[19:17:26] <cmouse> tried googling but nothing came up
1247[19:18:05] <jelly> probably because sane people don't build for release N and release N+1 using the exact same source package
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1250[19:18:29] <cmouse> jelly: maybe
1251[19:18:42] <jelly> at the very least a "backport" to jessie would need to have a slightly lower version, and that means a different debian/changelog
1252[19:18:51] *** Quits: mtn (~mtn@replaced-ip) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
1253[19:22:49] <cmouse> jelly: well, it's not really a backport.
1254[19:23:28] *** Quits: _ADN_ (~username@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1255[19:23:28] <jelly> but I honestly have no idea how kids automate building their binaries for a zillion distros and releases these days
1256[19:23:48] <cmouse> they use obs
1257[19:24:23] <jelly> cmouse: it's not a backport, but the versioning ought to behave the same if you want your users to navigate Debian release upgrades successfully
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1259[19:24:43] <cmouse> jelly: k
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1261[19:25:10] <jelly> and not "oh this 1.4-3 for jessie has different deps than this 1.4-3 for stretch"
1262[19:25:12] <jmd> Since upgrading to stretch, syslog seems to have stopped working. All new files in /var/log are of zero length.
1263[19:25:37] <greycat> Is /var full?
1264[19:25:55] <jmd> No. 11G available
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1267[19:26:30] <jelly> is rsyslog (rsyslogd process) running at all
1268[19:26:32] <greycat> Is rsyslog running? Any useful output in "journalctl -u rsyslog"?
1269[19:26:48] <AeCEgGfTv5> anyone know of a good open source NAS hardware that is intel/amd based?
1270[19:27:32] <jmd> greycat: Well, I have never known journalctl to ever do anything except print "-- No entries --" and that is what it is doing now.
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1272[19:28:21] <jmd> But ps indicates that /usr/sbin/rsyslogd is running.
1273[19:28:33] <jelly> I don't know of any properly open source hardware, both intel and amd are horribly closed. Synology uses a lot of open source software.
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1275[19:29:23] <greycat> jmd: well, that's weird. For me, journalctl says "Jul 17 07:56:10 wooledg systemd[1]: Started System Logging Service." among other things.
1276[19:29:36] <jmd> Wow!
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1279[19:30:01] <jmd> What does it do for other people?
1280[19:30:03] <jelly> jmd: does this system use a debian distro kernel, is it an unusual installation or architecture?
1281[19:30:32] <jmd> jelly: No. It's a fairly standard amd64 stretch
1282[19:30:48] <jmd> kernel 4.9.0-7-amd64
1283[19:30:56] <jelly> jmd: do you have a /var/log/journal directory?
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1285[19:31:21] <jmd> jelly: No. Should I?
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1287[19:31:48] <jelly> only if you want persistent journald records. also, does "df -i" show anything to be full?
1288[19:32:10] <jmd> Nothing is more than 17% full
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1290[19:32:50] <greycat> How about "systemctl status rsyslog" -- anything weird-looking there?
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1292[19:33:07] <cmouse> jelly: thank you for your help, btw
1293[19:33:56] <jmd> I don't know what it's supposed to look like, but nothing stands out as erroneous.
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1296[19:34:24] <jmd> It says Active (running) singe 1 day 7 h ago
1297[19:34:27] <jelly> cmouse: eh, I'm not really that knowledgeable in building processes. There's a #packaging channel over on irc.oftc.net (= irc.debian.org) that might do better
1298[19:34:46] <cmouse> well, at least you answered
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1301[19:37:01] <n4dir> the wiki has quite some documentations about packaging, some are slightly too high level, some are very easy. Not sure if they will answer your question, the irc channel mentioned is probably more straight forward
1302[19:37:13] <n4dir> replaced-url
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1304[19:38:22] <cmouse> i managed to sportsmassage the specific problem i had
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1306[19:38:42] <cmouse> but have to look at this more carefully when the responsible person is back aggin
1307[19:38:45] <cmouse> again
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1398[20:35:04] <AquaL1te> does someone see what i did wrong in this config? replaced-url
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1408[20:45:03] <dutchfish> AquaL1te, at least read this replaced-url
1409[20:46:03] <dutchfish> AquaL1te, also probably a missing auto statement
1410[20:46:53] <dutchfish> AquaL1te, replaced-url
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1413[20:47:25] <dutchfish> AquaL1te, and for the dual stack replaced-url
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1416[20:49:40] <dutchfish> AquaL1te, it depends a bit too, if you have native ipv6 or not.
1417[20:49:49] <l3x1c00n> Is replaced-url
1418[20:50:36] <greycat> replaced-url
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1420[20:50:57] <l3x1c00n> greycat: That shows down. Just verifing here
1421[20:50:57] <dutchfish> l3x1c00n, its down for me (.nl)
1422[20:51:14] <l3x1c00n> duckydan: Okey
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1435[20:56:15] <Patator> hi
1436[20:56:17] <Patator> i can't seem to access
1437[20:56:18] <Patator> replaced-url
1438[20:56:29] <Patator> am i the only onE?
1439[20:56:31] <l3x1c00n> Patator: That's sown
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1442[20:56:54] <l3x1c00n> replaced-url
1443[20:57:17] <Patator> oh
1444[20:57:43] <Patator> for how long has that been the case?
1445[20:58:07] <AquaL1te> dutchfish: it's native ipv6 and i don't remember touching it the last couple of days, restarting went fine then... if only the error message was descriptive... this is quite crappy stuff
1446[20:58:52] <l3x1c00n> Patator: Not sure, I just discovered few sec b4
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1452[21:00:54] <l3x1c00n> Patator: Down for more than a week
1453[21:01:08] <l3x1c00n> replaced-url
1454[21:01:17] <l3x1c00n> replaced-url
1455[21:01:19] <l3x1c00n> ^^^
1456[21:01:28] <foul_owl> New usb drive is detected via lsusb but device doesn't show up in /dev
1457[21:01:55] <foul_owl> How do I tell udev to do its thing without rebooting my production server
1458[21:03:04] <Patator> l3x1c00n, oh shits
1459[21:03:06] <Patator> thx
1460[21:03:18] <l3x1c00n> Patator: Not sure what's going on
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1468[21:06:46] <stripe> hi all, could I install debian with a later kernel 4.15> (rx580 graphics) cheers
1469[21:07:05] <l3x1c00n> Yeah
1470[21:07:16] <greycat> if it's just for graphics, you can do a regular install WITHOUT a desktop environment, install the backports kernel, then install the X stuff
1471[21:07:17] <l3x1c00n> stripe: Use backports if you dare
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1477[21:09:25] <stripe> have tried a clean install without a desktop and just get a black screen, the hardware worked wit debian until the new graphics card (have tried a testing install also with the same results)
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1479[21:09:57] <l3x1c00n> stripe: What Hardware?
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1482[21:10:51] <dutchfish> AquaL1te, one thing more, i assume you are aware of the changed naming conventions for net names. Take a peak at `ls /sys/class/net/`
1483[21:11:02] <stripe> both were net installs, 4440 i5 haswell, 16gb ram, and a rx580 amd graphics card
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1485[21:11:52] <AquaL1te> dutchfish: i'm aware, raspbian disabled that
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1487[21:11:57] <dutchfish> AquaL1te, on Debian/stable enp4s0 is the one most commonly for the first network adapter.
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1489[21:12:31] <dutchfish> AquaL1te, is this Raspbian?
1490[21:12:55] <AquaL1te> dutchfish: yes, but the interface config syntax is the same
1491[21:13:10] <dutchfish> AquaL1te, are you sure, look at ls /sys/class/net/
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1493[21:13:22] <dutchfish> ?
1494[21:13:25] <AquaL1te> dutchfish: positive
1495[21:13:55] <l3x1c00n> Patator: I did some research and looks like your care is not properly supported on Debian.
1496[21:14:13] <dutchfish> AquaL1te, does `ip a` tells you anything?
1497[21:14:35] <stripe> l3x1coon cheers
1498[21:15:09] <AquaL1te> dutchfish: i've added the ipv6 address manually to eth0 at the moment
1499[21:15:43] <l3x1c00n> stripe: lol, what for ? :D
1500[21:15:45] <Patator> l3x1c00n, which means?
1501[21:15:53] <AquaL1te> but i also rebooted 5 minutes ago, same problems. it's some syntax problem. but almost impossible to debug it...
1502[21:15:55] <Patator> (not a native speaker)
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1509[21:18:35] <dutchfish> AquaL1te, the naming convention can be unwind to the old naming convention within the kernel line. I dont know how that works out for Raspbian, maybe ask in there?
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1514[21:19:04] <dutchfish> AquaL1te, i adapted to how Debian does it.
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1516[21:19:48] <dutchfish> AquaL1te, apart from th emissing auto statement and how dns servers should be configured, i dont see mistakes.
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1520[21:20:37] <dutchfish> AquaL1te, it could be Raspbian specific.
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1534[21:24:00] <FreeDummyNode> hop
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1590[21:26:27] <AquaL1te> dutchfish: having eth0 instead of the hardware position address doesn't interfere, it worked fine a few days ago. it's some crappy syntax problem, which is very cryptic... i'll try some random stuff and try to bruteforce a solution
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1596[21:27:34] <dutchfish> AquaL1te, fair enough. If it doesnt work out ask #Raspbian, you might be barfing at a specific bug.
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1598[21:27:50] <AquaL1te> dutchfish: what do you mean with missing auto statement? and how dns servers should be configured?
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1600[21:28:23] <dutchfish> AquaL1te, man resolv.conf
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1604[21:28:58] <AquaL1te> dutchfish: you're not helping with these abstract suggestions ;)
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1607[21:29:53] <novilog> Is cdimage.debian.org down? I can't get a response from the server while trying to download a live image. Where can I track its status in the future?
1608[21:30:19] <dutchfish> AquaL1te, man stands for manpage (a helpfile) that explains how it works and how resolv.conf should be configured, i gues you can read that?
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1616[21:31:28] <AquaL1te> dutchfish: i guess i'm not talking to a human. are you suggesting i should manually change resolv.conf? if so, that's wrong. want to know why? here is a book [random book on amazone about linux]
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1628[21:37:21] <dutchfish> AquaL1te, it depends very much how the system is configured. As an example this could be done by dhcp, fixed ip address or networkmanager. Depending which one is being used, /etc/resolv.conf is populated automatically, or not.
1629[21:37:51] <greycat> replaced-url
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1631[21:38:08] <dutchfish> AquaL1te, i was assuming you are talking about a console setup. Not networkmanager.
1632[21:38:20] <novilog> It's definitely not taboo to touch resolv.conf . Many distributions require you to configure this manually.
1633[21:38:58] <greycat> Not taboo, just excessively *difficult* because you're swimming against the fuckin' laptop & Desktop Environment tide.
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1635[21:39:35] <novilog> Desktop environment? Who uses those? A window manager is all you need :P
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1637[21:39:48] <greycat> I completely agree.
1638[21:39:51] <dutchfish> AquaL1te, and above that, this is not Debian but Raspbian. There could be diffrences in that too.
1639[21:40:55] <AquaL1te> dutchfish: true, but i already stated that the problem is in the ipv6 part. so we can talk about dynamic interface names and the ipv4 config all day long but the problem won't be resolved ;)
1640[21:40:56] <dutchfish> AquaL1te, i am just trying to help.
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1642[21:43:09] <dutchfish> AquaL1te, my thought in that was: if for some reason a part of the system assumes the new naming convention, nftables, firewall software, failtoban etc etc. This could make easely a non working system without much warnings.
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1647[21:44:25] <novilog> I still haven't been able to reach cdimage.debian.org ... Does anyone have any news on this?
1648[21:44:36] <dutchfish> AquaL1te, secondly, recent kernel changes work differently with firewalling software too.
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1650[21:45:02] <dutchfish> AquaL1te, anyway, maybe better ask in #raspbian.
1651[21:45:04] <greycat> novilog: apparently it has been down for a week. You're the second person asking about it this *hour*, which explains the reluctance to answer.
1652[21:45:33] <novilog> greycat: Ah -- but that's so bizzare... I was able to download multiple images from it just last night
1653[21:45:52] <novilog> Still, thanks for letting me know. I didn't intend to be a repeat complainer :P
1654[21:46:24] <AquaL1te> dutchfish: rule number one of kernel development is that it cannot break user space, so, unlikely. btw; no kernel updates. it really is just a minor syntax problem. any syntax problem gives the same uninformative message in debian networking. so yeah, it could indeed be anything :)
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1657[21:46:42] <greycat> replaced-url
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1659[21:47:08] <greycat> nobody here in #debian @ Freenode seems to know any more than this
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1662[21:50:44] <abrotman> novilog: have you checked any mirrors?
1663[21:51:19] <abrotman> replaced-url
1664[21:51:39] <novilog> not yet. Is there a mirror list available? Obviously the one that's on cdimage.debian.org isn't accessible right now
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1666[21:52:09] <abrotman> specific to cdimages.debian.org, not that I know of
1667[21:52:14] <novilog> I'm looking for the unofficial directory for live CDs that come packaged with the nonfree firmware
1668[21:52:40] <abrotman> oh, hrm
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1674[21:56:46] <novilog> I'm only seeing mirror archives of the live-nonfree CDs, but they're all many versions outdated.
1675[21:56:56] <mason> novilog: replaced-url
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1678[21:58:31] <novilog> Lucky me! Thank you mason
1679[21:58:40] <novilog> And everyone else.
1680[21:58:47] <dutchfish> AquaL1te, an example for a dual stack replaced-url
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1685[22:02:18] <AquaL1te> dutchfish: "that's now how you do dns" ;) i do the exact same thing (other parameters of course)
1686[22:02:18] <rwp> dutchfish, I don't mean to complain but one does not need to specify both netmask and network. The "network" config is redundant and under the principle of DRY (don't repeat yourself) shouldn't be specified if redundant.
1687[22:02:18] <dutchfish> AquaL1te, not including SLAAC config btw
1688[22:02:18] <dutchfish> AquaL1te, good luck
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1691[22:03:52] <dutchfish> rwp, true, but since i dont know how different distros comply to it (in this case raspbian), i made this redundacy.
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1693[22:04:18] <dutchfish> rwp, for Debian netmask will do
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1696[22:04:31] <rwp> It's the same for Raspbian too.
1697[22:04:37] <dutchfish> ah ok
1698[22:04:43] <rwp> Some years back it showed up as an example in the man page. Therefore found its way into the default template.
1699[22:04:54] <dutchfish> ay
1700[22:04:55] <rwp> Then for about a decade there has been a campaign to try to clean that up.
1701[22:05:17] <rwp> I am looking for the bug number. But unfortunately "network" and "netmask" are not easy things to search for in the BTS for it! :-(
1702[22:05:44] <dutchfish> rwp, well, i got this one from an ipv6 book, which i just looked up.
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1705[22:06:21] <rwp> Yes. You see the problem! The old examples still exist. There is really no way to clean them all out.
1706[22:06:43] <dutchfish> rwp, nowadays, i configure the router/proxy with reserved addresses and make my workstations dhcp (much easier)
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1708[22:07:44] *** Parts: novilog (~novilog@replaced-ip) ("Thanks #deb!")
1709[22:07:56] <dutchfish> rwp, thanks
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1712[22:14:57] <rwp> dutchfish, If you see both netmask and broadcast in the same config the same thing applies there too. :-)
1713[22:15:22] <rwp> I am not able to find the bug after that brief search. And I must leave the keyboard for a bit.
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1715[22:16:35] <dutchfish> rwp, thanks, its for AquaL1te
1716[22:16:48] <rwp> Time flies... I do see that five years ago in 2013 I updated wiki page.
1717[22:17:13] <rwp> dutchfish, No, you misunderstand, I was enlisting you help in the campaign to DRY up the network configurations!
1718[22:17:15] <dutchfish> rwp, so true, i search high and low and only found outdated stuff
1719[22:17:33] <dutchfish> ah ic :)
1720[22:17:40] <rwp> I know you will be helping others in the future. And will now be part of the campaign with the rest of us! :-)
1721[22:17:57] <dutchfish> rwp, thanks again. Noted.
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1724[22:18:29] <rwp> And with that I am afk... See all of you later.
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1733[22:28:47] <foul_owl> Is /etc/network/interfaces still used in debian?
1734[22:28:53] <greycat> yes
1735[22:29:21] <foul_owl> I tried to set my ip to static with that file, but when I did "systemctl restart networking" eth0 had the new ip address but it kept the old one also
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1739[22:29:45] <foul_owl> I can paste my /etc/network/interfaces file if needed
1740[22:30:16] <greycat> If dhclient is already running and you want to convert the interface from DHCP to static, you need to "ifdown" first, THEN edit the file, THEN ifup.
1741[22:30:38] <greycat> If you edit first and then ifdown, it doesn't know that the interface WAS dhcp and that there is a dhclient that needs killin'/
1742[22:30:45] <foul_owl> Ah
1743[22:30:50] <foul_owl> Hmm ok I was trying to edit with ansible
1744[22:30:59] <foul_owl> Which of course needs the interface
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1746[22:31:16] <foul_owl> Ansible seems to tolerate the restart with no issue
1747[22:31:18] <greycat> People do this to themselves intentionally. Mind-boggling.
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1751[22:31:43] <foul_owl> Why is this so wrong?
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1754[22:32:17] <foul_owl> If I'm trying to manage 1000 servers, I was told ansible is the way to do it, not with a for loop in bash
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1761[22:34:54] <at0m> foul_owl: you can instruct ansible to run a "ifdown && cat interfaces.new > interfaces && ifup" script, no?
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1763[22:35:14] <foul_owl> I definitely can, and it sounds like that's the way to go here
1764[22:35:33] <foul_owl> I just didn't understand what was so wrong about using ansible to manage my servers
1765[22:35:53] <at0m> it's not wrong, in most scenario's =)
1766[22:36:59] <foul_owl> Is it wrong here? To use it to configure networking? I would rather not do that by hand...
1767[22:37:08] <foul_owl> Expecially not on 1000 servers...
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1769[22:37:25] <foul_owl> I can do it in bash also, but for the past 5 years everyone has told me to use ansible over bash so here I am...
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1772[22:37:43] <at0m> that *way* you used it was wrong, there was or is nothing wrong with ansible
1773[22:38:01] <foul_owl> Understood
1774[22:38:21] <at0m> now you've come to understand more, and i bet you'll be able to use it in other scenario's, too
1775[22:38:43] <foul_owl> Certainly I have been using ansible to automate configuration for nginx, haproxy, postgres, etc, etc
1776[22:38:49] <foul_owl> Networking is a bit of an edge case it seems
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1785[22:44:21] <greycat> What I don't understand (well, there are lots of things, but I'll just pick one) is why you'd be managing 1000 servers and not use DHCP to control their IPs.
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1789[22:48:58] <foul_owl> That sounds fine, but when they end up restarting, when they come back up they get a different ip address and then I have to change all my DNS entries...I don't control the router
1790[22:49:16] <foul_owl> and the dhcp server is running on the router
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1792[22:50:03] <foul_owl> I suppose I could create my own dhcp server that is tied to dns
1793[22:50:58] <foul_owl> It's not really 1000 servers, it's just a few dozen, but I am extrapolating for large scale deployment
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1795[22:51:33] <foul_owl> I would rather do things the right way, I'm open to any advice
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1797[22:52:27] <foul_owl> I don't have a real deployment, I'm just trying to set up a home lab with LXC on rpis, due to low budget
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1799[22:53:51] <foul_owl> I have several dozen containers running redmine, owncloud, grafana, nginx, haproxy, all ha, failover with keepalived, it all works fine, but I don't control my router for my home lab
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1803[22:54:12] <foul_owl> I'll take any advice you give me
1804[22:54:20] <greycat> ... you are supposed to ASSIGN the IP addresses to the MAC address in the DHCP server.
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1806[22:55:15] <foul_owl> I don't even have the login for the router, the DHCP server is a black box to me
1807[22:55:28] <foul_owl> So I figured just use static ips and call it good
1808[22:55:40] <greycat> Then something is incredibly wrong. How do you have 1000 servers and 0 control over the network?
1809[22:55:47] <foul_owl> It's a home lab
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1811[22:55:53] <foul_owl> It's not literally 1000 servers
1812[22:55:55] <greycat> I, who, what.
1813[22:55:59] <greycat> ...
1814[22:56:11] <greycat> *plonk*
1815[22:56:17] <foul_owl> It's still more than I want to manage by hand...
1816[22:56:28] <foul_owl> A few dozen is reason enough to automate
1817[22:56:29] <at0m> home network and no control over the router/dhcpd? err.
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1819[22:56:39] <greycat> Yeah, lies and more lies.
1820[22:57:14] <foul_owl> My landlord provided the router, not my business
1821[22:57:36] <foul_owl> Want my landlords phone number now? Can we try and stay on topic?
1822[22:57:40] <at0m> put another router between that and your LAN. one that *you* control.
1823[22:58:12] <foul_owl> Ok, or just use static ips
1824[22:58:26] <foul_owl> Without having to buy more hardware
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1826[22:58:40] <foul_owl> Why are static ips so wrong? I don't understand that
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1828[23:00:02] <foul_owl> Even if I can get access to the router, I doubt it provides any semblance of reasonable configuraiton. It's likely some garbage web interface with a giant restart button. Do you think it provides fine grained control over dhcp settings? Do you think it provides a DNS server?
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1835[23:04:47] <jak2000> hi all how to check who use the port 4848?
1836[23:04:57] *** Quits: tvm (~tvm@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1837[23:05:05] <greycat> lsof -i :4848
1838[23:05:06] *** Quits: weathermaker (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
1839[23:05:22] <greycat> (is one of many solutions)
1840[23:05:45] <jak2000> empty
1841[23:06:06] <foul_owl> Why call me a liar? I'm just trying to learn with a home lab. Yes, the 1000 servers is an exageration, but that is the use case always outlined when reading about using something like ansible over bash
1842[23:06:18] <foul_owl> So that is the mindset of the question
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1844[23:06:39] <greycat> What makes you think something is "using" that port, then?
1845[23:06:45] <foul_owl> A few dozen containers on a few rpis is still more than should be done by hand
1846[23:06:58] <jak2000> greycat: There is a process already using the admin port 4848 -- it probably is another instance of a GlassFish server.
1847[23:07:09] <greycat> How do you know this?
1848[23:07:36] <jak2000> i need create a domain with glassfish... and get this meesage :(
1849[23:08:05] *** Joins: weathermaker (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
1850[23:08:23] <greycat> You ran lsof as root, yes? On the correct computer?
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1852[23:08:41] *** Joins: mrig (~mrig@replaced-ip)
1853[23:10:31] <jak2000> yes
1854[23:10:41] <greycat> Then try again.
1855[23:10:45] <greycat> Maybe it's gone now.
1856[23:12:27] *** Joins: phogg (~phogg@replaced-ip)
1857[23:12:53] <jak2000> strange: replaced-url
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1860[23:14:40] <greycat> replaced-url
1861[23:15:44] <greycat> and replaced-url
1862[23:16:06] <jak2000> ok, thanks
1863[23:16:10] <greycat> I stopped wondering as soon as I saw the word "java".
1864[23:16:18] <jak2000> raeding
1865[23:16:22] <jak2000> java the problem
1866[23:16:22] <jak2000> ok
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1870[23:17:26] <Javabean> it really is annoying that someone named a troublesome programming language after coffee and a country
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1872[23:18:02] <greycat> I'm sure the island is quite nice.
1873[23:18:59] <Javabean> thats what i heard as well, but my nick comes from coffee
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1917[23:47:54] <TinkerTiger> iI set up an alias to load irssi on my 'server' where it works. Moved the same command to my HP laptop where it works but my C720 doesn't. I don't get it!
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