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• 1[00:00:26] <rwp> On a typical system it will always return ::1 these days. (Unless it is one of mine where I have forced it to be 127.0.0.1 instead.
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• 9[00:01:20] <jsubl2> rwp so is ::1 ipv4
• 10[00:01:29] <rwp> ::1 is IPv6
• 11[00:01:33] <rwp> 127.0.0.1 is IPv4
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• 13[00:01:40] <Dagger> I actually thought Debian prefered 127.0.0.1 over ::1, but I noticed the other day that my own system doesn't do that (and this is jessie so not exactly recent)
• 14[00:01:46] <jsubl2> ok
• 15[00:02:09] <jsubl2> which is the best for a simple home net
• 16[00:02:17] <rwp> That "preference" for IPv6 over IPv4 for DNS lookups is configured in /etc/gai.conf (get address info) and by default it will prefer converting names to IPv6 addresses.
• 17[00:02:38] <jsubl2> so ipv6 is overkill???
• 18[00:02:44] <rwp> jsubl2, "Best" is whatever works as much as possible out of the box without needing to know what is best. :-)
• 19[00:03:11] <Dagger> obviously the problem here is exim... but it looks like my exim does in fact listen on ::1 by default, so that should be working
• 20[00:03:34] <rwp> Overkill? No. We are at a transition period. We have run out of IPv4 addresses to allocate. Therefore we must move to IPv6. Whether anyone likes it better or worse or not. It is simply required.
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• 27[00:04:15] <rwp> Ipv6 isn't new. It is 20 years old! It has just taken us this long to arrive when it must happen.
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• 29[00:04:34] <SerajewelKS> ipv4 address exhaustion isn't even really one of the more compelling reasons for v6
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• 31[00:04:51] <rwp> One of the big drivers is mobile devices. Phones. Tablets. Did I read there are now more mobile cell phones than people in the world?
• 32[00:04:54] <jsubl2> we wont switch till we have too :)
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• 34[00:05:14] <Dagger> you won't switch. you'll just add v6 to your existing network
• 35[00:05:28] <rwp> IPv4 and IPv6 is designed as a "dual stack" with both in parallel and independent of each other. This is both confusing and a very good thing.
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• 37[00:05:36] <jsubl2> default installs do that
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• 40[00:05:45] <Dagger> and you really need to be doing that now. the internet needs to move to v6, and you adding v6 to your network is part of that
• 41[00:05:48] <meinHeld> oi
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• 43[00:06:09] <jsubl2> meinHeld: you aussie
• 44[00:06:10] <meinHeld> any advice on typing umlaut or other diacritical chars?
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• 46[00:06:18] <meinHeld> no just an anglophile a bit
• 47[00:06:22] <meinHeld> :D
• 48[00:06:28] <jsubl2> :D
• 49[00:06:47] <SerajewelKS> Dagger: then there's people like me, who get punished for enabling v6 and have to invent obnoxious workarounds
• 50[00:07:01] <rwp> meinHeld, I use "setxkbmap -option terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp -option compose:menu" to set up a compose key on the right Menu key.
• 51[00:07:29] <rwp> Then to type in café I type in Menu ' e and out comes é.
• 52[00:08:17] <meinHeld> coolio! not to be windowsy, but could i put alt+xxx?
• 53[00:08:23] *** Quits: mavhc (~mavhc@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
• 54[00:08:41] <rwp> alt+xxx? I don't understand.
• 55[00:08:42] *** Joins: fs2 (~fs2@replaced-ip)
• 56[00:08:58] <rwp> But an alternative input method is to use the AltGR key in combination. You might prefer that.
• 57[00:08:59] <SerajewelKS> it's a windows-ism for entering other characters
• 58[00:09:05] <meinHeld> in windows years ago for u umlaut i could hold alt and type 0252
• 59[00:09:06] <meinHeld> etc
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• 61[00:09:23] * rwp is looking for the compose key file of all combinations...
• 62[00:09:23] <Dagger> SerajewelKS: which is shit, yes. v6 should just work out of the box (and it generally does except with things which try to be too clever and fail miserably)
• 63[00:09:42] <meinHeld> thanks rwp
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• 65[00:10:09] <SerajewelKS> Dagger: netflix explicitly blocks ipv6 tunnels as "geo-unblocking proxies," but in the most technically annoying way possible. they could say "oh ipv6 looks like a proxy, let's try ipv4." nope. you just don't get to watch.
• 66[00:10:25] <jsubl2> anyone have bumblebee switchable graphicsa
• 67[00:10:43] <SerajewelKS> Dagger: if you have your DNS server block AAAA records for netflix domains it will try again using 8.8.8.8 for lookup
• 68[00:11:10] <SerajewelKS> Dagger: so you have to have your DNS server return null-routed v6 addresses to AAAA queries for a few wildcard domains to make netflix give up and use ipv4
• 69[00:11:18] <SerajewelKS> it's so ass-backwards it actually makes me mad
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• 71[00:11:27] <cybrNaut> netflix is a walled-garden we should be avoiding anyway
• 72[00:11:39] <SerajewelKS> we're very close to canceling
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• 74[00:12:08] <meinHeld> indeed, cybrNaut
• 75[00:12:10] <SerajewelKS> i ran into a similar situation where hulu blocked us because i run a tor relay (not even an exit node)
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• 77[00:12:15] <Dagger> returning NOERROR for the AAAAs will work without retries. but if you have multiple DNS servers then you of course need to do it for all of them, because clients may pick randomly from the available DNS servers
• 78[00:12:21] <SerajewelKS> in the tor atlas? you must be bad.
• 79[00:12:48] <SerajewelKS> Dagger: any kind of empty set triggered netflix to try again on 8.8.8.8. i tried many different things.
• 80[00:13:30] <Dagger> ...is it hardcoding 8.8.8.8? see, that's another case of "trying to be clever and failing miserably"
• 81[00:13:42] <Dagger> (except hardcoding DNS servers isn't even clever)
• 82[00:13:51] <SerajewelKS> yes
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• 84[00:14:14] <SerajewelKS> if the system DNS server returns anything but an IPv6 address for an AAAA query it will retry against 8.8.8.8
• 85[00:14:36] <SerajewelKS> so i have to return 100::1 instead and null-route that
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• 87[00:14:52] <SerajewelKS> this is what i get for trying to implement ipv6
• 88[00:15:44] <Dagger> I guess you're expected to assign 8.8.8.8 to your DNS server nowadays (similarly to the fec0:0:0:ffff:{1,2,3} well-known addresses for v6 DNS servers, although that never made it to RFC status)
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• 91[00:16:11] <SerajewelKS> Dagger: for some time that's exactly what i did
• 92[00:16:35] <Dagger> it's unfortunate that the well-known addresses for v4 clash with Google's DNS server addresses, but I guess address clashes are routine in v4 now so it's no surprise to see them happen again
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• 104[00:23:27] <FullTimeLinux> Hello can someone help me figure out how to get the source for a package (dpkg) from the Debian repositories? I'm following the steps in the Debian handbook but come across an error with apt-secure.
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• 109[00:25:59] <rwp> FullTimeLinux, The most typical problem is missing "deb-src" entries in the /etc/apt/sources.list file. Ensure those are there and then "apt-get update" and then "apt-get source $PACKAGENAME" should Just Work.
• 110[00:26:21] <ksk> !tell FullTimeLinux about deb-src
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• 112[00:27:19] <ksk> just the deb-src entry part, ignore the "install build-essential" part of the bots message.
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• 145[00:53:44] <meinHeld> hoi palloi
• 146[00:53:48] <meinHeld> sorry something went wonky
• 147[00:54:00] <meinHeld> rwp did u find anything?
• 148[00:54:31] <meinHeld> or can i just put a keymap in etc/x11/xkb/ ? somehow
• 149[00:54:39] <meinHeld> like i found on a webzite
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• 162[01:01:33] <angry_route> hi! does anyone uses dnsmasq + dnscrypt-proxy? Is it possible to make dnsmasq forward my devices IPs to dnscrypt-proxy? So the logs on dnscrypt-proxy will show the real IP instead of my loopback interface?
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• 186[01:22:11] <awal1> exit
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• 190[01:27:57] <__m4ch1n3__> awal you are still here
• 191[01:28:07] <__m4ch1n3__> *awal1,
• 192[01:28:26] <__m4ch1n3__> /exit
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• 198[01:31:40] <awal1> __m4ch1n3__, :) I know I am still here and I know it it /exit. "exit" was for my shell session ; it was just a window confusion . thanks anyway :)
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• 207[01:36:39] <rwp> meinHeld, No I didn't find the file I was looking for. If you search the web for either Compose key or AltGr you will find a lot of documentation from various places, of varying quality. I didn't want to endorse any one or another of the ones I found while looking.
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• 211[01:37:33] <rwp> meinHeld, I will go here replaced-url
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• 266[02:09:17] <pagetelegram> Yo should I have no issue with a serial hardware fax modem (9 pin) use in Debian? Zyxel Omni 56k and fax modem...need for faxing using efax command. I want to know before I purchase one for sale.
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• 268[02:10:30] <rant> where are you gonna find a serial port? :P
• 269[02:10:31] <pagetelegram> I just assumed if it works in OS/2 that it should work fine in Debian. Just wanna make sure, being that it is hardware modem should it not need a driver. just sent AT commands directly to serial?
• 270[02:10:53] <pagetelegram> CF-29 laptop has serial port. So I'm good AFAIK
• 271[02:12:22] <pagetelegram> I have just enough money tho don't want to make a bad move, my only opportunity as money is tight as hell this coming month. Just did a gig for someone and this is next on my list.
• 272[02:12:34] <meinHeld> thanks rwp. i don't like wikipedia because it is purported to be a wiki but it notoriously controlled, in my experience and from what i hear.
• 273[02:13:25] <meinHeld> but now i know to look for altgr and compose key, rwp
• 274[02:13:27] <meinHeld> thanks!
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• 303[02:30:13] <pagetelegram> Got my answer in the Hardware channel....of all folks one named Edlin :P
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• 309[02:33:18] <aloo_shu> what was it? didn't sound like a question you wanted a wrong answer to
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• 332[02:57:20] <pagetelegram> AT commands work as long as CX450m standard or earlier should work fine too.
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• 334[02:59:49] <pagetelegram> I'm pretty confident now being that it is an analogue modem that I bought that AT commands directly to and from serial port should work. It is Hayes standard of protocols and G3 (much newer my laptop soft modem only does G1)
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• 389[03:45:40] <Deihmos> debian boots to grub after bios update
• 390[03:48:15] <tomreyn> more likley you have grub booting debian linux, or failing to do so.
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• 396[03:49:56] <Deihmos> i have never messed with grub. apparently it is a common issue. found a tool
• 397[03:50:06] <Deihmos> refind
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• 408[03:56:10] <Deihmos> replaced-url
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• 410[03:56:37] <Deihmos> stuck on this step grub-install /dev/sda
• 411[03:57:16] <Deihmos> i get this error grub-install: error: /boot/efi doesn't look like an EFI partition.
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• 427[04:04:40] *** hanasaki1 is now known as hanasaki
• 428[04:04:54] <hanasaki> n gnome, where do you set the folder that shows up as the desktop list of files?
• 429[04:06:05] <hanasaki> in gnome, how do you setup the gui to have min/max/close icons in the top right corner of windows?
• 430[04:07:18] <jmcnaught> hanasaki: you're probably looking for the tweak tool aka advanced settings
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• 434[04:08:56] <awal1> hanasaki, pkg is 'gnome-tweak-tool'
• 435[04:09:05] <awal1> v gnome-tweak-tool
• 436[04:09:11] <awal1> ,v gnome-tweak-tool
• 437[04:09:12] <judd> Package: gnome-tweak-tool on amd64 -- wheezy: 3.4.0.1-2; jessie: 3.14.2-2; stretch: 3.22.0-1; buster: 3.30.2-1; sid: 3.30.2-1
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• 444[04:16:40] <RandomSerb> Hello. I've followed tp-link's guide for compiling drivers for one of its usb wifi models. Now, I followed instructions to the letter, and now my wifi network shows just fine. This said, when I try to connect to it, it just won't. It continuously asks for password, every 10 seconds
• 445[04:17:10] <RandomSerb> I used following command to load the driver: sudo insmod 88x2bu.ko
• 446[04:17:35] <rant> hanasaki: gsettings set org.gnome.desktop.wm.preference button-layout 'appmenu:minimize,maximize,close'
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• 448[04:19:22] <rant> hanasaki: gsettings set org.gnome.desktop.background show-desktop-icons 'true'
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• 458[04:24:25] <rant> hanasaki: as for setting the location of the dir, edit ~/.config/user-dirs.dirs
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• 466[04:26:26] <rant> hanasaki: gsettings list-recursively org.nemo.desktop
• 467[04:26:41] <rant> that last command shows you the keys to edit to show things like the computer, network, trash, home icons
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• 472[04:28:37] <dtornabene> hey all, I'm getting a really weird error while trying to run/install several very different binaries/shell scripts, specifically "exec format error"
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• 474[04:29:20] <dtornabene> nothing I'm finding via google seems to be illuminating
• 475[04:29:25] <rant> obviously the binaries are not the correct format for your kernel arch
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• 477[04:29:56] <rant> you should probably not be running random binaries
• 478[04:30:02] <hanasaki> where do you nav to in the tweak tool please?
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• 480[04:30:27] <dtornabene> rant: thats not correct
• 481[04:30:51] <dtornabene> the binaries are for the proper arch, and they aren't "random", its ida pro freeware
• 482[04:31:06] <dtornabene> and burpsuite install shell script
• 483[04:31:22] <dtornabene> and isabelle2018 theorem prover
• 484[04:31:36] *** Quits: RandomSerb (~RandomSer@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
• 485[04:32:01] <dtornabene> I've used the file command, I've checked the binary type, and no, its not, on the surface, an architecture problem
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• 487[04:32:16] <dtornabene> which wouldn't matter for a shell script anyway
• 488[04:33:00] <__m4ch1n3__> is there a native linux ida binary at all? thought it was windows software
• 489[04:33:24] <rant> it would matter for a shell script if the shell script is a self extracting binary
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• 491[04:33:36] <__m4ch1n3__> its maybe the correct arch but sure its the correct os?
• 492[04:33:43] <dtornabene> there is! it just came out last year, I've got it on an older stretch box, it installed no problem
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• 500[04:35:28] <dtornabene> _m4ch1n3_: yeah, they're all linux binaries, ELF files all. I'm setting up a new laptop (old laptop really, repurposed) and I'm getting alot of strange problems installing otherwise normal software
• 501[04:35:43] *** Quits: FriedEggBanjo (~FriedEggB@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
• 502[04:35:48] <__m4ch1n3__> there are sha check sums on the download page
• 503[04:35:50] <__m4ch1n3__> replaced-url
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• 506[04:36:54] <__m4ch1n3__> verify first the file you downlaoded
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• 510[04:38:46] <rant> hanasaki: that tweak tool is not capable of doing what you asked..
• 511[04:38:52] <dtornabene> so I just did that, thanks for the suggestion, the ida file is in fact what i downloaded. But given that I'm getting this same error on multiple completely different files I'm guessing its not the files themselves
• 512[04:39:47] <dtornabene> I was hoping that there might be some insight yall had on what, other than an incorrect binary for the arch, would be generating this error on multiple dissimilar binarys/shell scripts
• 513[04:40:03] <meinHeld> hei, does anyone know how to modify/set the compose key?
• 514[04:41:14] * rant runs away
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• 524[04:42:44] <meinHeld> from me, rant?
• 525[04:43:22] <Pegasus_RPG> Hello. How can I add reiserfs support to the Debian 9 installer to rescue a system?
• 526[04:43:44] <Pegasus_RPG> I tried anna-install reiserfsprogs-udeb but /proc/filesystems still doesn't list it
• 527[04:45:23] <rant> meinHeld: you and others.. there are a million layers of the keyboard input system and they're all terrifying as is users bothing us with problems hacking in 3rd party binary crap
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• 529[04:46:23] <Pegasus_RPG> (And mount continues to give me 'invalid parameter' when I try to mount the root fs.)
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• 532[04:47:20] <rant> #717236
• 533[04:47:21] <judd> Bug replaced-url
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• 535[04:47:49] <__m4ch1n3__> dtornabene, can you give ecat error output
• 536[04:47:56] <__m4ch1n3__> *exact
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• 539[04:49:40] <dtornabene> i could, but I just spilt water over everything and am now in the process of having to clean desk, wonderful stuff. if you're still around in a few minutes I'll and feel like helping I'll ping you with that output. thank you _m4ch1n3_:
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• 541[04:49:55] <milos_> hey
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• 543[04:50:12] <milos_> I'm using insmod to load drivers for my usb wifi dongle
• 544[04:50:33] <__m4ch1n3__> when shit hits the fan :D
• 545[04:50:34] <milos_> but after reboot, driver's not loaded. Is there a way to load it always at boot?
• 546[04:50:45] <dtornabene> for real
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• 548[04:51:05] <milos_> derek foreal?
• 549[04:51:07] <milos_> :p
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• 551[04:51:33] <rant> Pegasus_RPG: did you load the reiserfs kernel module?
• 552[04:51:52] <rant> installing userland utilities doesnt make things appear in kernel interfaces
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• 558[04:52:47] <rant> Pegasus_RPG: CONFIG_REISERFS_FS=m 4.9.0-8-amd64
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• 560[04:53:20] <Pegasus_RPG> I have to rebuild the kernel??
• 561[04:53:38] <rant> Pegasus_RPG: m means its a module which has to be loaded
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• 563[04:53:59] <rant> Pegasus_RPG: though thats the stretch kernel, the installer and its initramfs and such may be different
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• 565[04:54:33] <rant> Pegasus_RPG: reiserfs was dropped in Debian 6.0 you're lucky the tools and module are even still included
• 566[04:54:38] <rant> !reiserfs
• 567[04:54:38] <dpkg> ReiserFS version 3 (aka Reiser3) is a journaling filesystem with pretty good performance and some interesting features. It is wonderful and everyone loves it, until the axe falls and they lose data due to a crash. As such, it has a lot of ex-fans who are now sadder but wiser. Ask me about <ext3>, <jfs> and <xfs> for safer filesystems. See also <reiserfs d-i>, <ext3 vs reiserfs>, <rfstool>, <reiser4>.
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• 569[04:55:30] <rant> Pegasus_RPG: a filesystem only shows in /proc/filesystems if its compiled in or loaded
• 570[04:55:32] <Pegasus_RPG> Yeah, this is an old system I pulled from storage that hasn't been powered on in >2600 days or so. :0
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• 573[04:56:00] <rant> Pegasus_RPG: maybe try dig up an old Debian 6.0 media :P
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• 577[04:56:32] <Pegasus_RPG> That'll certainly be easier than building a kernel.
• 578[04:57:11] <rant> if the module is there, you dont need to build the kernel you just need to load the module.. as I said numerous times now
• 579[04:57:23] <Pegasus_RPG> unfortunately it's not
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• 581[04:58:20] <aloo_shu> dtornabene: if for whatever reason, say, bash itself was the wrong exec format?
• 582[04:59:01] <Pegasus_RPG> rant: so I have to at least build the kernel module, right?
• 583[05:01:17] <Deihmos> do you do expert install?
• 584[05:02:54] <Pegasus_RPG> or I can try copying it from another system with it already present...
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• 590[05:10:02] <Pegasus_RPG> Okay WTF I copied it and modprobe still says it's not present
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• 596[05:12:18] <Pegasus_RPG> ahh insmod is what I eneded
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• 601[05:14:36] <rant> @.@
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• 621[05:31:31] <Pegasus_RPG> All fixed. Thank you for the help, Rant!
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• 628[05:35:23] <rant> all fixed as in you no longer have reiserfs and you got a good therapist for PTRFSD?
• 629[05:35:30] <dtornabene> aloo_shu: not sure I follow?
• 630[05:35:38] <rant> Post Traumatic ReiserFS Disorder
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• 632[05:37:15] <Pegasus_RPG> lol, no, just that I got into the fs and reinstalled Grub so the system boots correctly now.
• 633[05:37:27] <Pegasus_RPG> I just found out the other day that I can migrate in-place to XFS
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• 637[05:38:27] * Pegasus_RPG enjoyed reiserfs and was sad that reiser4 never made it to mainline
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• 640[05:39:05] <Pegasus_RPG> Is there a way to do a nested deborphan?
• 641[05:39:08] <dtornabene> aloo_shu: but I like where you're heading, because its not three different wildly different files all producing the same exact error
• 642[05:39:27] <Pegasus_RPG> I'm trying to purge all unneeded packages and new ones become orphaned after I remove the previous list
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• 644[05:40:19] <Pegasus_RPG> s/nested/recursive/
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• 650[05:53:42] <meinHeld> rant, modding is awesome. there is only one party.
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• 652[05:54:12] <rant> is it larger than a breadbox?
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• 699[06:27:56] <dgp> I have two interfaces controlled by ifupdown that systemd-networkd can't configure yet. The systemd-networkd stuff that is configured on top of one of them (vlans) seems to work fine but the parent interface doesn't come up automatically on boot. Is there a good way to integrate ifupdown and networkd in situations like this?
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• 706[06:41:01] <rwp> Pegasus_RPG, It usually isn't that many loops through deborphan before one is done. But if you want a driver around it try "orphaner". It has the option to be recursive.
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• 848[08:20:06] <SerajewelKS> is there a "proper" way to take a clean LVM snapshot of a mounted ext4 volume, or do we just rely on the journal to clean up the inconsistent state?
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• 875[08:38:00] <cluelessperson> So, I think linux has a problem
• 876[08:38:22] <apollo13> let's agree to disagree
• 877[08:38:34] <cluelessperson> I think it's a lack of standardization of configurations on various OSes
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• 879[08:38:45] <cluelessperson> and of course packaging
• 880[08:38:52] <cluelessperson> so now you get this stuff, docker
• 881[08:38:54] <cluelessperson> linux containers.
• 882[08:38:56] <apollo13> you want #debian-offtopic
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• 884[08:38:57] <cluelessperson> all popping up
• 885[08:38:58] <apollo13> noone cares
• 886[08:39:14] <cluelessperson> apollo13: maybe don't be an ass
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• 890[08:40:19] <apollo13> Well you are the person clearly off-topic here, so…
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• 907[08:45:03] <verblendet> awesome... debian live wont install on a p3 700 with 512mb ram and 4gb ssd.... erm, i dont see a reason for this... its just copy from usb live stick right?
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• 909[08:45:16] <verblendet> 2gb used vs 4gb ssd free ......
• 910[08:47:18] <verblendet> and it seems oplder versions of debian as live image are no more available, mmmmh
• 911[08:47:26] <verblendet> nice
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• 930[08:58:18] <SlidingHorn> verblendet: not really. You could probably put a netinst on it though
• 931[08:58:49] <verblendet> yeah, i was thinking of networkless install :)
• 932[08:59:01] <verblendet> or find an older distro, or use win 3.1 :))
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• 934[08:59:34] <verblendet> thing is: i just need to get the display resolution and tale a photo of the screen running x
• 935[08:59:37] <SlidingHorn> verblendet: start with a minimal debian, and see what you can add from there
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• 937[08:59:45] <verblendet> yeah, i could use a win7 dvd too
• 938[08:59:50] <SlidingHorn> verblendet: depends on what you pan on doing with it in the end, though
• 939[08:59:51] <verblendet> SlidingHorn, thats waste of timne
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• 941[09:00:05] * SlidingHorn shrugs
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• 943[09:00:19] <SlidingHorn> well, have fun with whatever else you decide then :)
• 944[09:00:32] <verblendet> i try the live cd again, the one with kde wont start at all.... mouspointer visible after 30 min at least :))
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• 948[09:02:52] <SlidingHorn> debian requires somewhere around 10 gigs of space for a functioning desktop install
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• 951[09:03:58] <verblendet> SlidingHorn, yepp, but the live usb stick is 2gb, and the install routine just copys over
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• 954[09:04:15] <verblendet> but seems the disk gets wasted with temp files i think, so 4g is not enough
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• 959[09:08:37] <verblendet> ha, got it, install fails, but live cd with xfce instead of kde will start in 5 minutes, not 45 or so :) .... so far problem solved
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• 1057[10:13:19] <rant> the live install is roughly twice the size of a normal install
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• 1060[10:14:21] <rant> it contains a crapload of language packs, translations, language utilities, etc.. roughly 2G of that crap alone.. your understanding "2g" is the compressed image size
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• 1062[10:15:30] <rant> as for the size of various installs..
• 1063[10:15:35] <rant> !de usage
• 1064[10:15:35] <dpkg> hmm... de usage is The HDD/RAM usages of the 7 Stretch DE on amd64 VirtualBoxes with 1GB RAM / 32GB HDD are as follows as reported with only their terminals running df -Th and free -h: GNOME 4.2G 726M, KDE 4.1G 604M, Cinnamon 3.7G 482M, MATE 3.1G 215M, LXQt 3.1G 184M, LXDE 3.0G 180M, XFCE 2.9G 226M
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• 1066[10:16:50] <rant> so installed size (if installed from D-I choosing only standard install and a DE) ranges from 2.9G to 4.2G nowhere near 10G
• 1067[10:18:11] <rant> using 12G-20G target disk size just ensures you have 8-16G of free space available to work with after install at least
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• 1071[10:19:35] <rant> which is probably a minimum space you'd want available to have room to install additional software, for logs, temp files, personal docs, downloads, etc
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• 1073[10:21:29] <rant> not to mention you'd need available disk space for downloading updates usually at least 500MB or so for routine security updates and probably between 1-2GB for a full dist upgrade
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• 1086[10:26:39] <Yaser_Amiri> Hi, Is it resonable to install debian server or Proxmox on USB Stick for server and use hard disk just for data
• 1087[10:26:42] <Yaser_Amiri> ?
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• 1096[10:31:52] <jelly> Yaser_Amiri: you'd need some tuning for Debian to avoid excessive writing to usb
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• 1105[10:38:08] <petn-randall> Yaser_Amiri: It's not that usual as most USB sticks have fairly slow I/O.
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• 1109[10:40:54] <rant> I've run a desktop off a thumbdrive for several years.. it is slower than a HDD install but its certainly doable
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• 1115[10:43:37] <rant> and when I say I've done it, I was doing it on an old T42p which I believe was USB1.1 so..
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• 1120[10:45:42] <blackflow> My USB sticks die within a year of purchase. I wouldn't do it.
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• 1124[10:46:34] <rant> I was using a PNY 32GB and it lasted over a year before I stopped using it that way and I dont use it much now but its still functional
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• 1126[10:47:30] <rant> and being that I was using it as a desktop, I was using it for browsing, downloading, etc.. wasnt taking any precautions at all
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• 1146[10:53:28] <jelly> some servers have internal usb and sd card slots precisely with that purpose in mind
• 1147[10:55:06] <rant> really the slow painful stuff with that setup, and mind you as I said I believe that machine only had USB 1.1, was things like installing/upgrading when you had a lot of unpacking and db access going on.. normal usage it was barely noticed
• 1148[10:55:29] <rant> but doing more intense disk IO was quite painful
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• 1160[11:08:44] <Yaser_Amiri> thanks guys!
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• 1167[11:16:32] <rtarded> Hi. does anybody know the difference between "apt rdepends, apt-cache rdepends and apt-rdepends"?
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• 1177[11:20:09] <Haohmaru> different levels of convenience maybe?
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• 1194[11:32:16] <jelly> rtarded: you don;t have to install and use apt-rdepends but it still exists from the times when apt-cache did not have that option and when apt command did not exist? MAybe
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• 1239[12:01:33] <hook54321> why don't the default debian repos support HTTPs?
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• 1243[12:02:34] <Fox> hook54321: did you install apt-transport-https ?
• 1244[12:02:43] <rant> hook54321: try turning that question around.. why would they?
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• 1246[12:03:11] <petn-randall> hook54321: There's no benefit, as the repository is validated via GPG signature. On the other hand Debian would have to hand out debian.org certificates to third parties, which is far more problematic.
• 1247[12:03:12] <shtrb> It's the fancy new thing to use https everywhere
• 1248[12:03:45] <hook54321> So various people can't as easily see what packages someone is downloading.
• 1249[12:03:45] <FinalX> well, everything is moving towards https-only, so thee question makes sense. but, there's no need for it to be https, technically speaking. the packages have verifiable signatures so they can't be modified and the packages are available from many sources
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• 1251[12:04:02] <FinalX> there's plenty of https-mirrors, though
• 1252[12:04:07] <FinalX> and you're free to choose any of them
• 1253[12:04:11] <e> i don't think handing out certificates would be the best approach. redirect servers could be https and redirect to https
• 1254[12:04:13] <apollo13> well, makes no sense is questionable with the last apt bug, though that can occur on https to
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• 1256[12:04:23] <e> (not that i think https is necessary)
• 1257[12:04:25] <apollo13> that said harder to mitm than a http connection
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• 1259[12:04:30] <shtrb> hook54321, that is why they demand you to install their own CA .
• 1260[12:04:41] <Fox> hook54321: replaced-url
• 1261[12:04:51] * rant has to duck out of this conversation cause his vision is too blurry for some reason :P
• 1262[12:05:04] <Fox> easy way to find https mirros
• 1263[12:05:18] <Fox> rant: stop drinking :)
• 1264[12:05:31] <e> apollo13: the recent bug is unfortunate, but i don't think it really changes things. you'd still need the gpg verification part with https, because of mirrors, and a signature bypass would still be awful, because of mirrors
• 1265[12:05:35] * rant is not even remotely intoxicated in any way
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• 1267[12:05:54] <shtrb> rant, stop using IRC while sky diving or just diving :D
• 1268[12:06:13] <rant> yeah idk.. even increasing my font from 14 to 24pt its still quite blurry
• 1269[12:06:17] <apollo13> e: yes, hence me saying it could occur on https to. but the argument for defense in depth is imo not the worst
• 1270[12:06:37] <shtrb> rant, If you are running on nvidia there was a bug about it some time ago
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• 1273[12:06:58] <rant> shtrb: na core i5 based.. pretty sure its me, not the computer
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• 1275[12:08:05] <petn-randall> apollo13: It has been discussed many times, and every time it was ruled that the work (which would be significant) does not justify the minimal security improvement.
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• 1278[12:09:22] <petn-randall> And many arguments on closer look don't really hold up. "People can't see which packages I download" is not true, as the download size to the byte gives you a pretty good guess what update was downloaded. The downside is that proxies won't work anymore, meaning more load on mirrors.
• 1279[12:09:59] <FinalX> or build your own mirror and use that; then because you're mirroring all packages, they can't tell what you installed ;)
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• 1355[13:01:35] <hook54321> Fox: thanks, that worked
• 1356[13:01:44] <Fox> hook54321: cool
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• 1472[14:31:37] <Pawky> this is a bit odd, in debian ding tail -n +1 doesn't work.. or does nothing. How so? :-/
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• 1474[14:31:45] <Pawky> (doing)
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• 1479[14:32:50] <Pawky> wrong forum?
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• 1498[14:41:42] <Fox> Pawky: works for me
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• 1500[14:41:44] <cabral404> `tail -n +1` print from the first line to the end of the file, so it seems that it doesn't work but it's actually doing what you asked. so, if you do `tail -n +15`, it will print from the 15th line to the end
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• 1503[14:42:40] <Pawky> yes it does :-)
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• 1505[14:43:09] <Pawky> RTFM error ;-)
• 1506[14:43:42] <Pawky> its all about how one interprets +1
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• 1525[14:50:37] <Alina-malina> what software should i use to create a NAS out of debian server so i could plug USB hdds and access that server from various Os like win, android, ubuntu etc.?
• 1526[14:50:56] <Alina-malina> i mean access those HDDs
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• 1533[14:55:43] <shtrb> What is 0s ? you could setup iscsi for example if you like it , but was is your exact need.
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• 1544[15:02:09] <whislock> Alina-malina: Polling/research/opinion based questions like that don't generally lead to quality answers. Everyone has their own unique requirements - this is something that you'd be best served researching on your own, and maybe asking specific questions to clarify things.
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• 1548[15:02:27] <Alina-malina> well
• 1549[15:02:31] <Alina-malina> i asked simple question
• 1550[15:02:35] <Alina-malina> i have a debian machine
• 1551[15:02:44] <Alina-malina> and i have USB HDDs attached to it
• 1552[15:02:51] <whislock> I didn't say simple. I said specific.
• 1553[15:02:52] <Alina-malina> all i want is to access those files from other OSes
• 1554[15:02:58] <Alina-malina> for example windows
• 1555[15:03:02] <Alina-malina> like open as regular folder
• 1556[15:03:07] <Alina-malina> and access as regularly
• 1557[15:03:07] <whislock> "What should I use?" is not a good question for a support forum like this.
• 1558[15:03:35] <Alina-malina> whislock,
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• 1560[15:03:43] <Alina-malina> i ddi not ask what shoud i use ok?
• 1561[15:03:46] <Alina-malina> i asked: what software should i use to create a NAS
• 1562[15:03:51] <whislock> "what software should i use"
• 1563[15:03:55] <Alina-malina> what software should i use to create a NAS
• 1564[15:03:59] <greycat> If you want to access the files from Windows clients, use Samba.
• 1565[15:04:23] <Alina-malina> ye greycat i guess samba is the only option, i was suspecting it
• 1566[15:04:32] <Alina-malina> any alternative to samba?
• 1567[15:04:34] <greycat> It is NOT the only option. It is the option I recommend.
• 1568[15:04:36] <themill> there are dozens of options
• 1569[15:05:03] <Alina-malina> the only one that will be commonly recommended
• 1570[15:05:33] <Alina-malina> i never used samba, got to figure out how to add protection, that NAS router have public IP address
• 1571[15:05:37] <Alina-malina> so i got to be careful
• 1572[15:05:47] <greycat> *facepalm*
• 1573[15:05:50] <Alina-malina> samba 3+ i guess
• 1574[15:06:29] <greycat> OK, I officially change my recommendation: move your private files to a machine that ISN'T on the public internet.
• 1575[15:06:44] * whislock sits back with popcorn.
• 1576[15:06:45] <Alina-malina> the machine is not, but the router is lol
• 1577[15:06:51] <greycat> *plonk*
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• 1579[15:06:58] <Alina-malina> kk
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• 1608[15:17:35] <Bjornn> I'm going to upgrade from terminal to debian 9 from 8, what's the typical time required for that? anyone have a rough estimate?
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• 1612[15:17:58] <whislock> Bjornn: Depends entirely on how many packages you have installed, the speed of your connection, speed of storage, and so forth.
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• 1616[15:19:04] <themill> how customised your config is and how much updating it needs for the upgrade tends to give a big variation
• 1617[15:19:45] <Bjornn> it's pretty much vanilla. I browse the web and watch youtube mostly
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• 1620[15:21:18] <greycat> So it's a desktop system. Do you use a Desktop Environment? A big one? That will add a huge amount of stuf.
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• 1622[15:21:45] <Bjornn> Cinnamon desktop.
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• 1626[15:23:38] <NetTerminalGene> Bjornn, i upgraded to buster. using gnome. it took lots of packages
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• 1629[15:24:46] <greycat> Desktop Environments tend to be ludicrously big and complicated.
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• 1631[15:25:07] <NetTerminalGene> but now, it tells me autoremove the necessary packages :/
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• 1633[15:25:29] <NetTerminalGene> for example core gnome packages
• 1634[15:25:37] <Bjornn> well, I'll give it a go in a bit. worst I can do is crash and burn.
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• 1742[16:39:37] <paw> Hi, I'm hoping to create a package that will (in its debconf configuration), reconfiguration other packages on top of other things. How doable is this? And what's the recommended way of doing this? (ie calling dpkg-reconfigure from the config file, or sharing debconf variables, ...)
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• 1745[16:40:24] <ksk> paw: afaik you should not do this.
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• 1747[16:41:00] <ksk> if you want it to for example change apache2 package stuff, Id advise you make it create for example /etc/yourapache2/* and bring init scripts and so on
• 1748[16:41:45] <ksk> and just make your package require apache2 then.
• 1749[16:42:10] <paw> e.g. I'm creating something that tries to do a customized set of system configurations, so e.g. it'll want to reconfigure keyboard-configuration
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• 1752[16:43:13] <jmcnaught> paw: sounds like something you might want to use a configuration management tool for, like Ansible or Puppet
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• 1754[16:43:31] <paw> right. k thanks
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• 1812[17:16:31] <barteks2x> I have ~2-3 years old debian jessie installation that I haven't touched for a very long time, and I want to test something on it. So I need newer java version on it. Is there any quick way to just update java on old debian jessie without full upgrade?
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• 1815[17:16:59] <barteks2x> well, I already remove the java version that it did have in an attempt to update it
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• 1817[17:17:15] <barteks2x> and there are unmet dependencies when I try to install openjdk8
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• 1820[17:17:32] <greycat> Just download whatever java thing from oracle and toss it in a directory in /opt.
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• 1823[17:17:59] <barteks2x> hm... I've never actually downloaded java from oracle on linux
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• 1827[17:19:28] <barteks2x> also would it be possible to update this system to latest stable?
• 1828[17:19:43] <greycat> dpkg, jessie->stretch
• 1829[17:19:43] <dpkg> Read (at least) the upgrading chapter of the <release notes> replaced-url
• 1830[17:20:28] <barteks2x> I also had a few 3rd party repositories that don't appear to be available anymore
• 1831[17:20:33] <barteks2x> is that going to cause issues?
• 1832[17:20:51] <greycat> It can.
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• 1834[17:21:10] <barteks2x> I don't really need any of the package from these anymore
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• 1840[17:23:31] <rant> barteks2x: if you read the release notes, it specifically says to remove such repositories and all packages from them
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• 1842[17:23:58] <barteks2x> I don't remember most of the packages, so not sure what to remove other than the repositories
• 1843[17:24:35] <rant> barteks2x: are you against reading?
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• 1850[17:26:25] <barteks2x> it's a relaively long read and I hoped I could getsomething done quickly. But everything goes against me... apparently updating java didn't help me there. And I actually need to update libstdc++ or whatever that is
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• 1852[17:26:41] <barteks2x> which probably needs full system update
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• 1854[17:26:52] <greycat> Yeah, that's not a thing you can backport.
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• 1856[17:27:15] <barteks2x> I need libstdc++.so.6: version `CXXABI_1.3.9' and libstdc++.so.6: version `GLIBCXX_3.4.21'
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• 1861[17:28:36] <greycat> stretch's /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libstdc++.so.6.0.22 does indeed have CXXABI_1.3.9 in it
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• 1865[17:29:00] <greycat> and also GLIBCXX_3.4.21 and GLIBCXX_3.4.22
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• 1883[17:41:10] <barteks2x> actually, it's much faster than I remember it to be. It probably won't take that long to update
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• 1888[17:42:30] <rant> usually these days the bottleneck is on the unpacking due to the disk I/O as high speed internet is often more common that high speed disks :P
• 1889[17:42:50] <rant> though SSD are getting really cheap now for 1TB or less
• 1890[17:42:52] <greycat> Yes, that has been my experience as well.
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• 1904[17:54:18] <SpeedyG> seen a 4gb one for little over 500 eur
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• 1906[17:54:23] <SpeedyG> eh 4tb
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• 1908[17:54:32] <XsiSec> do someone recommend a screenshot tool that have the upload function included? I used shutter for few years but it doesn't work anymore
• 1909[17:55:12] <SpeedyG> I just use the gnome standard screenshot functions... suits my needs :)
• 1910[17:55:29] <XsiSec> I am on openbox
• 1911[17:55:42] <XsiSec> but gnome standard screenshot can upload ?
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• 1913[17:55:49] <XsiSec> automatically
• 1914[17:56:13] <SwedeMike> just important to buy the correct type of SSD for the workload needed. I've heard of people putting cheap consumer SSDs into servers and writing their lifetime TBW in a matter of months
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• 1916[17:56:53] <SpeedyG> XsiSec: dunno, never used upload functions
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• 1920[17:57:15] <ebol4> could someone help me determine why wget works, and telnet to port 80 works, but curl is not working?
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• 1922[17:57:33] <ksk> ebol4: "not working"?
• 1923[17:57:34] <ebol4> I'm just using replaced-url
• 1924[17:57:42] <ebol4> curl times out
• 1925[17:57:48] <ebol4> the other two work without any issues
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• 1927[17:57:50] <ksk> could you paste the output of everything please? use curl -I -v
• 1928[17:57:54] <rant> I not long ago tested out various screenshot utilities in debian, I was not impressed with the uploading ones they didnt work properly. I have however found things online like simple shell scripts to upload to imgur and such
• 1929[17:57:54] <ebol4> one sec
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• 1931[17:59:18] <ebol4> ksk: replaced-url
• 1932[17:59:22] <ebol4> it just hangs like that until timeout
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• 1935[17:59:51] <ebol4> DNS is resolving correctly, and I can definitely get to port 80 on that IP, I've tried it in multiple other utilities besides curl
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• 1940[18:00:26] <ksk> you can connect to that specific IP that curl resolves via telnet? strange indeed :)
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• 1942[18:01:10] <ksk> you set --ipv4 and also a specific device - do you do the same for telnet and wget?
• 1943[18:01:52] <ksk> (Id assume you would normally not need these switches, curl will follow the routing table to determine which interface to use)
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• 1945[18:02:33] <ebol4> I was doing that for testing, but good point. I just tried it without specifying an interface, and it worked fine. However, wlan1 is the default (and only) interface in my routing table
• 1946[18:02:35] <rant> ebol4: do you have any system proxy vars set?
• 1947[18:02:40] <ebol4> so I'm not sure why specifying an interface is breaking it
• 1948[18:03:14] <ebol4> i unplugged everything else for testing
• 1949[18:03:20] <ebol4> No proxy vars
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• 1952[18:04:31] <ksk> mhm --interface works as expected over here. no Idea.
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• 1954[18:04:52] <ebol4> I'm on curl 7.52.1, from the debian stretch repo
• 1955[18:04:55] <ebol4> x86
• 1956[18:05:59] <jedsot> Hi, I need help with windows 10 and debian9 dual boot. I have 2 hard drives, one with w10 and another one with debian9 installing right now. I've googled how to do it but it's not working for me, I can't see grub menu and only run w10.
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• 1959[18:06:11] <barteks2x> Will there be a way to use newer kernel on stretch?
• 1960[18:06:23] <ebol4> jedsot: enter your computer's BIOS and change the boot order so that it boots from the other hard drive first
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• 1962[18:06:31] <barteks2x> I kind of need 4.18 or around that for my GPU to work correctly
• 1963[18:06:35] <rant> barteks2x: of course
• 1964[18:06:42] <rant> barteks2x: 4.19 is in backports
• 1965[18:06:43] <ksk> barteks2x: check backports first
• 1966[18:06:51] <ksk> !tell barteks2x about backports
• 1967[18:06:53] <jelly> !bdo kernel
• 1968[18:07:03] <jelly> dpkg, ping
• 1969[18:07:03] <dpkg> pong
• 1970[18:07:09] <rant> ,kernels
• 1971[18:07:10] <judd> Available kernel versions are: experimental: 4.20.0-trunk-686-pae (4.20-1~exp1); sid: 4.19.0-2-686-pae (4.19.16-1); buster: 4.19.0-1-686-pae (4.19.12-1); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.1-686 (4.19.12-1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.9.0-8-686-pae (4.9.130-2); jessie-backports: 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.8-686-pae (4.9.110-3+deb9u5~deb8u1); wheezy-backports:
• 1972[18:07:11] <judd> 3.16.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae (3.16.39-1+deb8u1~bpo70+1); wheezy: 3.2.0-6-686-pae (3.2.102-1)
• 1973[18:07:24] <jelly> !bdo kernel
• 1974[18:07:24] <dpkg> Newer kernels for Debian stable releases are available from the <stretch-backports> repository. After modifying your sources.list, run «aptitude update». To install the current backported kernel: «aptitude -t stretch-backports install linux-image-`uname -r|sed 's,[^-]*-[^-]*-,,'`». To list available backported kernel image packages: «aptitude search '?narrow(~nlinux-image,?origin(Debian Backports))'».
• 1975[18:07:35] <barteks2x> ok, that will work for me
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• 1978[18:08:05] <jedsot> ebol4: I'm new with dual boots. So what are you telling me is to make a normal installation and install grub into the same hdd than debian, and change the order and it should be fine, doesn't it?
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• 1980[18:08:49] <ksk> jedsot: that sounds reasonable.
• 1981[18:08:59] <ebol4> jedsot: yes, right now, your computer is still booting from the hard drive with Windows on it, which is not aware of your Debian hard drive
• 1982[18:09:19] <ebol4> jedsot: by changing the order in the BIOS, it boots from your Debian hard drive, which knows about your Windows hard drive and will list it as an option
• 1983[18:09:29] <ksk> debian installation should also have detected your winows install most likely, and will have generated a grub menu entry to boot windows.
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• 2000[18:20:04] <jedsot> Just to make it easy for me to understand. I've installed w10 on sda and I'm installing Debian on sdd. Now I need to choose "grub on primary boot register" Yes and choose /dev/sdd right?
• 2001[18:20:30] <Bjornn> Jessie to stretch without issue, about an hour to do all the steps
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• 2003[18:20:49] <greycat> \o/
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• 2006[18:22:26] <barteks2x> I'm just wondering why apt-get can't be downloading and extracting things at the same time
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• 2008[18:23:14] <greycat> Downloads have a tendency not to work every time, so there is some benefit to *not* letting an upgrade start if it can't be completed.
• 2009[18:23:15] <petn-randall> barteks2x: bzip is not a streaming compression.
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• 2011[18:23:32] <barteks2x> I mean download a package, and wile downloading the next one, install the first one
• 2012[18:23:32] <greycat> petn-randall: I was thinking at the package level.
• 2013[18:24:04] *** Quits: dreamon (~dreamon@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
• 2014[18:24:09] <petn-randall> Also added complexity with little benefit. As an admin you want package upgrades to be robust as top priority. "Fast" is more "nice to have".
• 2015[18:24:39] <FinalX> plus you want to make sure that all your dependencies are installable before ending up with a half broken system
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• 2017[18:25:38] <ksk> I heard of some admins who download all the updates like the night before a planned "apt-get upgrade" ;)
• 2018[18:26:01] <barteks2x> I guess it makes more sense when it's not a desktop system :)
• 2019[18:26:08] <ksk> iirc some --download-only option to apt which does the trick.
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• 2021[18:26:23] <greycat> makes sense on all kinds of systems
• 2022[18:26:29] <petn-randall> You can also tell unattended-upgrades to download the packages only.
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• 2028[18:27:31] <petn-randall> "apt couldn't download packages, and now it's half-upgraded and the system won't boot!" - "At least it installed those packages quickly. Did you see how fast that was?"
• 2029[18:28:39] <barteks2x> And I remember anding up with half-updated system a few times anyway (but fortunately all that broke was Xorg)
• 2030[18:28:43] *** Quits: Bjornn (~Bjornn@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 2031[18:29:35] <barteks2x> but I guess it is better this way. It's fast enough already
• 2032[18:30:09] <brah> me:
• 2033[18:30:14] <brah> debian: *ends up in dependency hell*
• 2034[18:31:07] <barteks2x> I remember it oly being an issue when I had ubuntu and debian repositories mixed together
• 2035[18:31:39] *** Quits: Texou (~Texou@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
• 2036[18:31:59] <greycat> Don't ever do that.
• 2037[18:32:19] <barteks2x> that's why "had". I was dumb back then
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• 2050[18:42:58] <petn-randall> hehe, you live to learn ;)
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• 2070[18:49:55] <FullTimeLinux> Hello can someone help me figure out how to get the source for a package (dpkg) from the Debian repositories? I'm following the steps in the Debian handbook but come across an error with apt-secure.
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• 2073[18:50:25] <greycat> !source
• 2074[18:50:26] <dpkg> As an overview: to work with Debian source packages, add a <deb-src> line to your sources list; cd to a location with free space; download the source package with <apt-get source>; edit <debian/rules> to taste; use <dpkg-buildpackage> to build the new .deb. For more details, also ask me about <package recompile> <backport> <nmg> <policy> <source package>
• 2075[18:50:30] *** Quits: gryffus_ (~gryffus@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
• 2076[18:50:33] <jelly> FullTimeLinux, do you have debian installed?
• 2077[18:51:01] <greycat> If you don't have Debian installed, I would just go to packages.debian.org and download the source files manually.
• 2078[18:51:10] <FullTimeLinux> jelly: I have kde neon 16.04 installed.
• 2079[18:51:22] <greycat> That sounds like an Ubuntu version number.
• 2080[18:51:25] <jelly> that's a "no" then
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• 2083[18:52:05] <greycat> replaced-url
• 2084[18:52:29] <jelly> FullTimeLinux, if you do not care about MITM and file verification, then do that greycat says
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• 2087[18:53:29] <jelly> FullTimeLinux, if you do, in fact, care about verifying files, the easiest thing to do might be to install debian (in a vm or container or even chroot with debootstrap) and do the deb-src thing from there
• 2088[18:53:58] <barteks2x> I got "KeyError: 'texlive-latex-recommended'" with some exception when doign dist-upggrade but everything continued, is that ok?
• 2089[18:54:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1567
• 2090[18:54:28] <jelly> barteks2x, hard to say without looking at the whole output
• 2091[18:55:00] <barteks2x> replaced-url
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• 2094[18:56:41] <FullTimeLinux> jelly: I do care about MITM attacks. I added ftp.debian.org/debian to my /etc/apt/sources.list file. Then when I ran sudo apt update, the terminal prints this error: W: GPG error: replaced-url
• 2095[18:56:42] <FullTimeLinux> 'replaced-url
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• 2097[18:57:12] <jelly> FullTimeLinux, you will have to grab debian's pgp repo signature keys in a safe way.
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• 2100[18:57:37] <jelly> FullTimeLinux, you can't apt install debian-archive-keyring for obvious reasons :-)
• 2101[18:58:12] *** Joins: dastier (~dastier@replaced-ip)
• 2102[18:58:14] <jelly> FullTimeLinux, deboostrap a debian chroot instead.
• 2103[18:58:15] <ksk> FullTimeLinux: Id recommend against adding debian sources list to your ubuntu install.
• 2104[18:58:29] <jelly> ksk, they know exactly why they're doing it, tho
• 2105[18:58:48] <jelly> and they're supposedly only adding deb-src
• 2106[18:58:57] <ksk> oh. good point :)
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• 2110[19:00:03] <petn-randall> Do we know it though?
• 2111[19:00:09] <jelly> we hope
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• 2113[19:00:18] <jelly> FullTimeLinux, or grab a debian installer image, verify the iso, and extract keys out of there
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• 2117[19:00:44] <FullTimeLinux> jelly: I'm adding the sources because I want to create debian packages.
• 2118[19:00:54] *** Quits: gryffus (~gryffus@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
• 2119[19:01:25] <jelly> and I'm explaining a possible way of making your apt actually become able to verify package sources from .debian.org repos
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• 2123[19:02:24] <jelly> what do you mean by "debian packages" tho?
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• 2125[19:03:09] <jelly> FullTimeLinux, whatevre you build on that OS you have right now will only work on that particular release of that particular OS (distro)
• 2126[19:03:13] <greycat> If you want to create package that other people can install on Debian 9, you should build it *on* Debian 9.
• 2127[19:03:27] <ksk> if you want to create debian packages you will atleast need a buildroot of a recent debian version
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• 2129[19:04:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1574
• 2130[19:04:02] <jelly> ksk, I don't know what they mean by "debian packages"
• 2131[19:04:03] <ksk> anything more complicated then "ship this bash script" will have dependencies and/or need stuff from a debian installation.
• 2132[19:04:32] <jelly> it might be what you mean, or it might be something else
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• 2138[19:11:02] <NetTerminalGene> debian-next on OFTC requires to register :/
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• 2141[19:12:37] <petn-randall> !debian-next
• 2142[19:12:37] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
• 2143[19:12:42] <petn-randall> NetTerminalGene: it doesn't. ^^^
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• 2147[19:13:36] <NetTerminalGene> petn-randall, man, i connected OFTC
• 2148[19:13:38] *** Joins: Nekojimi (~jimj316@replaced-ip)
• 2149[19:13:45] <NetTerminalGene> let me try again
• 2150[19:14:03] *** Joins: pax (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
• 2151[19:14:08] <greycat> It's possible that you connected to oftc but still tried to join #debian-next on freenode.
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• 2154[19:14:36] <greycat> In irssi you'd want "/join -oftc #debian-next" or whatever label you gave the oftc network.
• 2155[19:14:51] <b18c5> how did he get on here with tor ?
• 2156[19:15:15] <b18c5> it bans me every time i try
• 2157[19:15:16] <NetTerminalGene> petn-randall, greycat #debian-next :Cannot join channel (Need to be identified and verified to join this channel, '/msg NickServ help' to learn how to register and verify.)
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• 2159[19:15:46] <RedAcor> b18c5 Visit official freenode site for that.
• 2160[19:16:01] <b18c5> i went another route thank you though
• 2161[19:16:02] <FullTimeLinux> jelly: I don't understand why you don't know what I mean by Debian packages. I am reading the Debian hand book and in chapter 15, page 451, it guides the reader on how to: rebuild a package from source, building your first package, and becoming a maintainer.
• 2162[19:16:16] <RedAcor> you need to register and set external sasl.
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• 2164[19:16:32] <RedAcor> ssl*
• 2165[19:16:43] <b18c5> oh not sasl ?
• 2166[19:16:46] <greycat> FullTimeLinux: because you haven't explained. What is your goal?
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• 2170[19:17:58] <RedAcor> b18c5 replaced-url
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• 2174[19:18:11] <b18c5> im good but thank you i set up a chainvpn
• 2175[19:18:14] <jelly> FullTimeLinux, it might mean "packages uploaded to debian.org" or "deb format binary packages for your own use or for some other distro"
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• 2177[19:19:03] <RedAcor> replaced-url
• 2178[19:19:04] <FullTimeLinux> greycat: My goal is to make Debian packages. Both uploaded to debian.org and deb format binary packages for my own use and for other distros.
• 2179[19:19:10] <jelly> FullTimeLinux, if your goal is to make packages for Debian, you'll have to install Debian and not make them in a different env
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• 2184[19:20:59] <FullTimeLinux> jelly: Why? What prevents me from developing on KDE Neon if I like it? Isn't GNU/Linux all about the freedom to choose? I am genuinely asking and not trying to be rude. I'm am confused.
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• 2187[19:21:22] <greycat> *plonk*
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• 2189[19:21:35] <jelly> FullTimeLinux, the results of building in such an environment will not be compatible with any debian release
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• 2191[19:21:57] <johnfg> hi folks
• 2192[19:22:08] <johnfg> Just installed buster with xfce as desktop.
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• 2194[19:22:29] <johnfg> anyone know how to get a right-click open terminal?
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• 2197[19:22:51] <jelly> FullTimeLinux, just as building a deb from the exact same source on debian 8 will have different result from doing the same thing on debian 9, or debian sid
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• 2199[19:23:23] <johnfg> Also, my main system is stretch (until buster's out, of course). Where can I look at what pkgs I have installed, and search a listing of the pkgs?
• 2200[19:24:00] <LtL> johnfg: dpkg -l
• 2201[19:24:04] <jelly> FullTimeLinux, in short: separate your build environment from your daily environment
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• 2204[19:24:31] <johnfg> LtL: Thanks!
• 2205[19:24:48] <LtL> johnfg: welcome
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• 2214[19:27:13] <petn-randall> NetTerminalGene: Yes, you need to be identified.
• 2215[19:27:27] <FullTimeLinux> jelly: How do people create packages that are platform agnostic then? I don't want to have to pull up a VM or reboot my computer when I want to build a debian package.
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• 2217[19:27:53] <ksk> FullTimeLinux: they dont.
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• 2219[19:27:55] <johnfg> LtL: So that's good for the system that's running. What directory would I look at on the non-running system to see what's installed?
• 2220[19:28:09] <greycat> the... what
• 2221[19:28:18] <johnfg> In other words, stretch isn't running; testing is.
• 2222[19:28:26] <petn-randall> FullTimeLinux: They don't. Packages aren't platform-agnostic. They're not even release-agnostic.
• 2223[19:28:51] <greycat> johnfg: the command is still "dpkg -l" on buster
• 2224[19:29:11] <ksk> johnfg: if you have your "oldlinux" somewhere lying around on your now live-linux, you could chroot into it: "chroot /path/to/old/debian-install; dpkg -l"
• 2225[19:29:25] <ksk> use "exit" to get out of the chroot again.
• 2226[19:29:53] <jelly> FullTimeLinux, the are several approaches to that problem. appImage, snap and similar cross-distro formats package up all their dependencies into a huge monstrosity and they basically work outside of distro package manager.
• 2227[19:29:56] <johnfg> ksk: I do, I made this a multi-boot system.
• 2228[19:30:26] <ksk> FullTimeLinux: this is part of the reason why things like flatpack or snap exist - but Id guess creating packages for them will not be easy either.
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• 2230[19:30:55] <jelly> FullTimeLinux, alternatively, you, the vendor, acknowledge the fact _binary_ packages are not portable, and make separate builds for each (distro, release, archictecture) tuple you target
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• 2232[19:30:57] <ksk> (and of course you will not be able to push a flatpack/snap package into the debian package repository - if thats what you are really after )
• 2233[19:31:21] <greycat> johnfg: are you trying to say "I have a dual-boot stretch/buster system, I have booted into buster, and I want to interact with the packages on the stretch partition without rebooting into stretch"?
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• 2235[19:31:42] <johnfg> ksk: Having both systems on lvm (ext4 fwiw), where would I chroot to?
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• 2237[19:31:53] <johnfg> greycat: Exactly! Very succint!
• 2238[19:32:05] <jelly> FullTimeLinux, alternatively3, pick a REALLY old distro and limit your dependencies, then build on eg. CentOS 5 32bit and verify your binary works on RHEL 5-7, CentOS 5-7, Fedora and recent Debians and Ubuntus.
• 2239[19:32:28] <johnfg> greycat: The interaction is only to duplicate on buster (to a certain extent) what's on stretch.
• 2240[19:32:30] <greycat> johnfg: mount the stretch file system, chroot into it, run dpkg -l
• 2241[19:32:39] <FullTimeLinux> ksk: I have never considered creating a snap/flatpack. I only want to create software that the FOSS community can use. It seems like I must have a fundamental misunderstanding about how distributing programs work.
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• 2243[19:32:46] <greycat> or dpkg --get-selections
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• 2245[19:33:14] <ksk> FullTimeLinux: just read what jelly and me said, it comes down to that (to our knowledge)
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• 2248[19:33:40] <ksk> and yes, building $linux-packages is not a trivial task.
• 2249[19:33:53] <jelly> FullTimeLinux, Debian, and most debian derivatives, pick the second option -- rebuild (from same or nearly identical) source for every release and architecture you want to make .deb for.
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• 2251[19:34:22] <johnfg> greycat: under lvm for stretch, I've got separate logical volumes for root, home and swap.
• 2252[19:34:34] <greycat> Just the root, then.
• 2253[19:35:06] <johnfg> greycat: Cool, will do that.
• 2254[19:35:33] <jelly> FullTimeLinux, source is usually portable. Binaries are not.
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• 2257[19:36:11] <jelly> FullTimeLinux, as an upstream software author, you might make the source, and let distros deal with building.
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• 2260[19:36:58] <ksk> FullTimeLinux: to extend on that: this is because binaries need to interact with stuff on your system (libraries) which differs from distributions, or even releases of one destribution.
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• 2267[19:38:16] <jelly> FullTimeLinux, or if you have the resources, set up automated CI/CD and do builds for each distro and distro release on your own. mysql.com, powerdns.com, postgresql.org and similar players have the resources do that.
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• 2269[19:39:00] <jelly> random Joe Hacker's media player just throws out code to github (previously: tarballs on an ftp site)
• 2270[19:39:10] <jelly> source* code
• 2271[19:40:17] <FullTimeLinux> Okay, in that case it looks like booting up Debian really is the only option. I'll just start with making Debs on Debian and then switch to neon to compile them there. I don't have much money (still in college) so I'm not sure about using a CI/CD (don't know what that is yet).
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• 2273[19:40:27] <FullTimeLinux> Thanks for your help jelly and ksk
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• 2275[19:41:52] <black_mamba> is there a way to 1) watch a file for changes, 2) if it changes stop a process that uses it, 3) restart the process (hopefully reloading the file with the changes)
• 2276[19:42:03] <johnfg> When a pkg is listed by dpkg -l with the :amd64, that's just noting that version of the pkg, which I shouldn't have to signify on this buster machine, also amd64?
• 2277[19:42:45] <greycat> black_mamba: the more common implementation is to send the (daemon) process a SIGHUP to indicate that it should reread its config file.
• 2278[19:43:22] <greycat> johnfg: if you've got multiarch enabled, you can have both :i386 and :amd64 versions of the same libraries (for example)
• 2279[19:43:26] <ksk> black_mamba: what are you trying to do? sounds like you want config managment - which also is able to use system tools (systemd) to make a deamon aware of a config change
• 2280[19:43:47] <jelly> black_mamba, there are at least 3-4 separate APIs in linux kernel to track file changes, I have no idea what's the current/best way
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• 2283[19:44:47] <greycat> I would tailor the solution to the specific application in question.
• 2284[19:44:59] <jelly> inotify? fanotify?
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• 2302[19:54:19] <black_mamba> greycat: That will work. ksk: might be an option, I'll look into it further jelly: those could also work. - Thank you all
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• 2326[20:01:32] <pagetelegram> Heya, my windows on my entertainment system so I was happy to install that crunchbang fork which is deb based. Wondering what deb tool would address the issue of the display being out of boundaries for x11. randr has no setting for this.
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• 2328[20:02:01] <pagetelegram> *windows crashed so now on deb
• 2329[20:03:41] <jelly> we don't really deal with derivatives here, pagetelegram, just debian proper
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• 2334[20:06:32] <jelly> they change things and we don't know what they changed or why, and applying solutions optimal for debian can actually break stuff on a derivative when they changed things for specific reasons
• 2335[20:06:47] <pagetelegram> Gotcha, thanks....I found ananswer tho it has to do with xrandr commands for overscan.
• 2336[20:08:03] <jelly> best to avoid overscan when possible, but that really depends on your tv model
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• 2339[20:09:09] <jelly> mine goes to 1:1 pixel mapping if I change hdmi input description to "PC"
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• 2344[20:12:07] <barteks2x> I just tried something like this on mu laptop: xrandr --output eDP1 --mode 1366x768 --panning 1366x768+0+50 --scale 1x1.2
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• 2369[20:19:19] <jelly> barteks2x, if you can some linear algebra and have an accelerometer sensor, you can make the screen output always be horizontal-level aligned no matter how you position the laptop
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• 2371[20:19:55] <barteks2x> Thanks to an answer to a questionn I would never even think to ask :)
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• 2386[20:25:02] <pagetelegram> nvtv is tool for Nvidia adjustments. Is there such a tool for ATI graphic cards? I'm dealing with overscan issue and some examples online for usnig xrandr to fix issue have caused the need to hard reboot.
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• 2388[20:25:54] <jelly> barteks2x, eg. don't do this: xrandr --output eDP1 --transform .9,.1,10,-.1,.9,40,0,0,1
• 2389[20:26:24] <jelly> or do it but have the identity matrix ready
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• 2393[20:26:47] <barteks2x> I kind of expect what it will do... and I probably won't like the result
• 2394[20:26:52] <jelly> barteks2x, xrandr --output eDP1 --transform 1,0,0,0,1,0,0,0,1 # back to normal
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• 2396[20:27:19] <barteks2x> it's going to roatate, scale and flip the screen, in some way
• 2397[20:27:29] <jelly> just rotate a bit
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• 2399[20:27:54] <barteks2x> doesn't rotate for me
• 2400[20:27:59] <barteks2x> just offsets a few pixels up
• 2401[20:28:10] <jelly> and to the left
• 2402[20:28:16] <Wulf> Howdy. I believe there was some way to request that a software is packaged for debian. What's the URL?
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• 2404[20:28:28] <barteks2x> ok, it works now :D
• 2405[20:28:29] <jelly> !rfp
• 2406[20:28:29] <dpkg> Request For Package (RFP) is the way to ask for a piece of software to be included in Debian. See replaced-url
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• 2408[20:29:13] <Wulf> jelly: thankyou
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• 2411[20:29:30] <jelly> check for existing RFP or ITP first
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• 2413[20:29:38] <jelly> !itp
• 2414[20:29:38] <dpkg> Intent To Package (ITP) is a Debian <bug> filed against the <wnpp> pseudo-package, to indicate someone is working on packaging a piece of software for Debian. This is done to avoid a duplication of work.
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• 2416[20:30:05] * jelly is queasy
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• 2424[20:34:05] <Wulf> dpkg: nmg?
• 2425[20:34:05] <dpkg> The packaging tutorial (replaced-url
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• 2435[20:37:13] <b18c5> replaced-url
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• 2441[20:39:05] <pagetelegram> Jelly, that is way too much fun for me right now :P though thank you for pointing me in the right direction
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• 2449[20:41:55] <kruug> Hello. Booting a fresh Debian 9 install, boots to the Dell splash, then a black screen with the blinking white cursor, then all black. Where do I start that troubleshooting?
• 2450[20:42:50] <hcal4> What GPU do you have? Nvidia? Intel? Is it a laptop?
• 2451[20:43:20] <ebol4> it sounds like there's some kind of tty issue. Are you using a console/serial cable? Or VGA?
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• 2454[20:43:48] <greycat> If you installed with a Desktop Environment, the first thing I would try is booting without starting X, by editing the GRUB boot command. I think you can just put a " 3" at the end or something to boot in multi-user.target.
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• 2458[20:44:40] <kruug> AMD CPU with onboard graphics, laptop. VGA, installed with Gnome.
• 2459[20:45:00] <kruug> greycat: how would I edit grub without being able to actually see grub?
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• 2462[20:45:45] <greycat> If you never see the GRUB menu then something else is causing the problem.
• 2463[20:46:15] <kruug> Yeah, never even see the grub menu
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• 2471[20:49:31] <altker128> Hey guys. Question here about firewalls: Is there any "easy" iptables rule that would allow local network access, but block "Internet" traffic? The challenge is the machine is a laptop so the local IP changes (i.e. it could be 192.168.0.1/24 or 192.168.10.1/24)
• 2472[20:50:07] <jhutchins_wk> kruug: That blinking cursor is a symptom of grub not being able to find it's code, possibly because the drive naming has changed from the initial install.
• 2473[20:50:10] <LtL> kruug: go into BIOS and disable legacy rom, see if that helps. don't change anything else
• 2474[20:50:23] <jhutchins_wk> kruug: You will need alternat boot media.
• 2475[20:50:25] <jhutchins_wk> !fixgrub
• 2476[20:50:25] <dpkg> To reinstall <GRUB> boot to your Debian install disk/live CD, switch to the other console (Alt-F2), mount your root filesystem (mount -t ext4 /dev/whatever /target ; mount --bind /dev /target/dev ; mount -t proc none /target/proc ; mount -t sysfs none /target/sys), chroot into it (chroot /target), run "mount /boot/efi" on EFI and "update-grub && grub-install /dev/whatever". See also <rescue mode>, <dual boot guide>, <supergrub>.
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• 2480[20:52:20] <kruug> LtL: I don't have a "Legacy ROM" option
• 2481[20:52:20] <jhutchins_wk> altker128: You could just restrict it to the 192.168.*.* network.
• 2482[20:52:38] <kruug> jhutchins_wk: so, a LiveUSB, not the Debian installer?
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• 2484[20:52:52] <jhutchins_wk> altker128: How would "internet traffic" be reaching it in the first place?
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• 2486[20:53:05] <jhutchins_wk> kruug: I think the installer has rescue mode on it.
• 2487[20:53:28] <altker128> jhutchins_wk: The issue is really the laptop would go on WiFi networks with the assigned IP could really be a 192.168 or 10.x or 172.x (i.e. no way to predict).
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• 2489[20:54:22] <altker128> jhutchins_wk: I'm using the -match-owner module, so the goal was to disallow certain programs Internet access but allow them local network access (i.e. in subnet)
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• 2492[20:55:40] <jhutchins_wk> altker128: Been a while since I worked with IPTables, but I think the concept of the "local network" exists and can be used in rules. The other option would be to determine what the network was and use that in a variable for your script.
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• 2494[20:57:51] <altker128> jhutchins_wk: If you have any pointers, let me know ; I spent time searching but all the examples I found are hard-coding the IP addresses ; I guess what I'm really asking for is the ability to dynamically obtain the "WAN IP" and have the rules work from there
• 2495[20:58:23] <altker128> jhutchins_wk: pf has nomenclature like (eth0) which means get IP address of eth0 (that syntax may not be exact but it's something like it)
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• 2506[21:03:31] <altker128> jhutchins_wk: ipset I guess is the right way
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• 2523[21:08:57] <FullTimeLinux> jelly: Hey jelly I am in the process of verifying the debian 9.7 iso and need some help understanding gpg. Can you help?
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• 2526[21:10:29] <jhutchins_wk> FullTimeLinux: There should be md5sum info on the page you downloaded it. I think they do sha256 as well. For m5, md5sum <file>.
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• 2528[21:12:29] <FullTimeLinux> I used openssl md5 <iso-name> to verify the files. That all worked well. Every output was as described in the .sign file.
• 2529[21:12:33] <jhutchins_wk> FullTimeLinux: CI/CD is Continuous [Improvement|Integration]/Continuous Deployment, so probably not something you need to use for individual development.
• 2530[21:12:52] <jhutchins_wk> FullTimeLinux: Very good.
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• 2532[21:13:38] <kruug> jhutchins_wk: reinstalled grub, no change.
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• 2536[21:15:03] <jhutchins_wk> kruug: You're installing it to the device (/dev/sda), not a partition (/dev/sda1), right?
• 2537[21:15:12] <kruug> Correct
• 2538[21:15:19] <FullTimeLinux> I just want to understand how to verify the iso with gpg. I read up on the gpg manual and it keeps mentioning that I can invoke gpg with something like this: gpg --verify 'sigfile'. What I don't understand is how to actually use that command. I don't seem to be able to download the sig file. The browser just takes me to a webpage that prints out the signature.
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• 2540[21:15:39] <kruug> As an added note, when I partitioned, I chose "Full disk, LVM, encrypted"
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• 2542[21:16:08] <kruug> FullTimeLinux: right-click, save as for the .sig file
• 2543[21:16:11] <jhutchins_wk> kruug: Ah. I don't know how to troubleshoot an encrypted boot partition, sorry.
• 2544[21:16:29] <kruug> I don't know if the boot partition is encrypted.
• 2545[21:17:21] <jhutchins_wk> FullTimeLinux: That would be to verify the GPG signature of the .sign file, not the iso.
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• 2549[21:20:25] <FullTimeLinux> Ah I see. I ran gpg --verify SHA256.sign and the error I got was gpg: no signed data gpg: can't hash datafile: file open error
• 2550[21:20:36] <jhutchins_wk> AFIK you can't sign an ISO, you can't write to it after it's been created.
• 2551[21:20:44] <FullTimeLinux> Is this remidied by adding the debian keys??
• 2552[21:20:59] <jhutchins_wk> No.
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• 2555[21:21:51] <jhutchins_wk> FullTimeLinux: It says it can't open the .sign file. Try full path?
• 2556[21:22:01] <dboto> A
• 2557[21:22:01] <FullTimeLinux> Okay so then is the only way I can verify the iso is correct by invoking openssl sha256 deb9.7.iso then? I thought I could use gpg
• 2558[21:22:04] <dboto> B
• 2559[21:22:09] <FullTimeLinux> ok i'll try full path
• 2560[21:22:28] <FullTimeLinux> even if it is in the same directory?
• 2561[21:22:35] <jhutchins_wk> ./
• 2562[21:23:01] <jhutchins_wk> FullTimeLinux: I'm not sure what syntax that command wants, you can check the manpage.
• 2563[21:23:16] <FullTimeLinux> Still didn't work.
• 2564[21:24:31] <jhutchins_wk> I always just use md5sum <iso>
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• 2567[21:26:44] <FullTimeLinux> I used md5, sha1, sha256, and sha512. I always got the same result as the sums. I wanted to verify the sums in addition to the .sign files.
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• 2574[21:29:40] <FullTimeLinux> I'm going to read up on the gnupg.org website and see if that helps.
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• 2576[21:30:33] <jhutchins_wk> FullTimeLinux: replaced-url
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• 2579[21:31:02] <jhutchins_wk> FullTimeLinux: replaced-url
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• 2582[21:32:21] <FullTimeLinux> Is it safe to use pub 4096R/09EA8AC3 2014-04-15 ???
• 2583[21:32:27] <FullTimeLinux> It's from 2014...
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• 2585[21:33:11] <jhutchins_wk> It's not like it drifts over time. A key is a key.
• 2586[21:33:28] <jhutchins_wk> The verify page above has specific instructions.
• 2587[21:34:12] <FullTimeLinux> Thanks
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• 2589[21:36:38] <jhutchins_wk> !keyring
• 2590[21:36:38] <dpkg> A keyring in the context of Debian are the public GPG keys used for signing the packages in the repository. Available in debian-archive-keyring or from replaced-url
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• 2592[21:37:35] <petn-randall> FullTimeLinux: Don't use the short ID ("09EA8AC3") to verify it, but the full length ID. Other than that you should be good.
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• 2610[21:48:17] <pagetelegram> My brain straining over trying to understand the transform argument for xrandr. Any reference that I could better understand the matrix thing? I got closer to ideal setting and am a bit lost being the monkey trying to figure this matrix thing out.
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• 2655[22:07:33] <FullTimeLinux> jhutchins_wk: I'm so close. I downloaded the keys from the keyserver using gpg --keyserver keyring.debian.org --recv-keys F41D30342F3546695F65C66942468F4009EA8AC3
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• 2659[22:09:03] <FullTimeLinux> jhutchins_wk: I know I have the keys because I entered gpg --list-keys and the debian keys came up. However I did gpg --verify SHA256.sign and it still failed.
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• 2703[22:30:12] <jhutchins_wk> FullTimeLinux: What was the error?
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• 2718[22:37:35] <FullTimeLinux> gpg: can't open `SHA512SUMS.sig' followed by gpg: verify signatures failed: file open error
• 2719[22:38:14] <FullTimeLinux> The directory looks like this
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• 2722[22:38:57] <FullTimeLinux> debian-9.7.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso SHA256SUMS.sign debian-9.7.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso.torrent SHA512SUMS.sign
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• 2726[22:41:05] <n_1-c_k> FullTimeLinux: your error has .sig, your listing has .sign.
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• 2728[22:42:15] <FullTimeLinux> I used .sign as well , didn't work
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• 2739[22:46:17] <LtL> FullTimeLinux: download MD5SUMS and MD5SUMS.sign, then 'gpg --verify MD5SUMS.sign MD5SUMS'
• 2740[22:46:42] <LtL> FullTimeLinux: you have the key, it should work
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• 2744[22:48:10] <LtL> he left right?
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• 2746[22:49:44] <kruug> yes
• 2747[22:50:22] <LtL> missed him by a minute, thanks anyway kruug
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• 2765[22:59:56] <Fahrradkette> greetings. will QT 5.12 be in buster when it goes stable or is the freeze on QT5.11?
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• 2774[23:04:20] <aloo_shu> going by the topic, you'd have better chances asking on oftc, Fahrradkette - someone here might know, still, but it's not me
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• 2777[23:05:40] <SlidingHorn> Fahrradkette: you might also want to try #debian-next (here and/or OFTC)
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• 2779[23:06:05] <Fahrradkette> aloo_shu, SlidingHorn: thanks a lot for the pointers
• 2780[23:06:13] <greycat> (not here)
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• 2782[23:07:33] <SlidingHorn> greycat: ah, just realized that's not a thing here/that it's invite-only
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• 2785[23:08:16] <greycat> It doesn't exist here. The "invite only" thing is just to prevent people from wandering into the empty channel.
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• 2798[23:18:22] <kryo_> hello im trying to install debian via debootstrap from a rescue mode, after messing with grub to try and get it to boot i can no longer use apt from a chroot
• 2799[23:18:22] *** Quits: polman (~ananevtem@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
• 2800[23:18:34] <kryo_> this is what i see when i try to apt upgrade replaced-url
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• 2804[23:20:37] <kryo_> i was hoping someone would have some idea what is going on here as i've never seen that before
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• 2809[23:22:33] <kryo_> furthermore running just "tar" prints this busybox stuff too replaced-url
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• 2818[23:24:19] <rwp> kryo_, You are using busybox outside of the initramfs? It is getting tar from busybox?
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• 2820[23:24:35] <kryo_> i dont know why it's using busybox
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• 2822[23:24:57] <rwp> When debootstrap'ing it should install everything it needs into the chroot.
• 2823[23:25:00] <kryo_> im in a chroot of / inside the livecd-type rescue mode
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• 2825[23:25:22] <kryo_> when i do echo $0 it says my shell is /bin/bash
• 2826[23:25:44] <rwp> I haven't used the live-cd for a while but rescue-mode I think does use busybox. But when you chroot into the debootstrap's directory then inside there it should not be busybox.
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• 2835[23:26:27] <ksk> yeah thats what I though looking at that image - if you chrooted correctly this should not be.
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• 2837[23:26:45] <rwp> So let's start at the fundamentals... You have reviewed replaced-url
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• 2839[23:27:22] <kryo_> i was using this replaced-url
• 2840[23:27:39] <rwp> [[That page recommends dselect, which I think is not so good these days. It's an old page.]]
• 2841[23:28:00] <rwp> Can't argue with the release notes! Those would be good. And authoritative.
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• 2843[23:28:40] <rwp> Which D.X.Y step have you gotten through before you hit the tar problem? D.3.2?
• 2844[23:28:53] <kryo_> well i got through the whole thing just fine
• 2845[23:29:00] *** Parts: izh_ (~denis@replaced-ip) ()
• 2846[23:29:05] <kryo_> and then the system wouldnt boot cause i messed up the grub
• 2847[23:29:31] <kryo_> so i did some grub-installs with various different arguments
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• 2849[23:29:51] <kryo_> and now when i go back into rescue mode and chroot i cant even use apt
• 2850[23:29:59] <kryo_> cause it seems to be falling back to busybox or something
• 2851[23:30:23] <rwp> I must ask about your disk size (smaller or larger than 2.2G), type of partition (legacy or GPT), whether this is legacy or UEFI boot, and what partitions you created.
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• 2854[23:30:52] <rwp> Whew! I think that covers the list of needed information! Too many things these days.
• 2855[23:30:54] <kryo_> /dev/mapper/vg0-root 18.2G 5.0G 12.2G 29% /
• 2856[23:31:01] <kryo_> GPT
• 2857[23:31:28] <rwp> GPT with LVM. Good. UEFI boot? Or Legacy?
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• 2859[23:31:42] <kryo_> im not totally sure but i think it's UEFI
• 2860[23:32:07] <kryo_> /dev/sda1 2048 4095 2048 1M BIOS boot
• 2861[23:32:13] <rwp> Okay. So disks larger than 2.2T (did I say G before? I did, sorry) need GPT. You did that. Good.
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• 2863[23:33:04] <rwp> UEFI needs an ESP (EFI System Partition) of 1,050,624 bytes in size.
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• 2865[23:33:46] <rwp> With LVM I always recommend (don't think it is strictly required now though) a separate plain /boot partition of good size (I always use 512MB)
• 2866[23:34:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1546
• 2867[23:34:09] <kryo_> basically what i did here is i had an installer install ubuntu 18.04 and configure the partitions
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• 2869[23:34:29] <rwp> And then grub needs to be the grub-efi-amd64 flavor not the grub-pc flavor. grub-pc is legacy. grub-efi is the UEFI flavor.
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• 2872[23:34:42] <kryo_> and then i used debootstrap to reinstall the root partition
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• 2875[23:35:06] <rwp> On the surface I think that should work. However I am completely unfamilar with how Ubuntu's installer will default to setting things up.
• 2876[23:35:06] <kryo_> oh yeah i definitely used grub-pc
• 2877[23:35:50] <rwp> grub-pc is definitely the legacy boot. I hit that problem myself and it was terribly frustrating until I figured out what I was doing wrong. Now I am extra sensive to it. Once burned and twice shy and all of that.
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• 2881[23:37:39] <nsrafk> Any of you who can recommend a shellprovider in europe? 2-3 bg processes needed. Fair price and good uptime is important
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• 2883[23:38:04] <kryo_> well thats one thing but i dont think it explains the weird busybox stuff
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• 2886[23:38:39] <rwp> kryo_, BTW... I actually like installing using the debootstrap method. Because then you understand everything. All parts of the installation are familiar. I am happy to see you use that method.
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• 2888[23:38:57] <rwp> But no it does not explain why tar is busybox tar and not the chroot'd tar.
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• 2892[23:40:05] <rwp> When you chroot into the directory you can then look at where tar is coming from and examine dpkg status.
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• 2894[23:40:15] <rwp> tar should be /bin/tar and it should be from the tar package.
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• 2896[23:41:09] <rwp> nsrafk, Not a clue! I am in a different continent. (And we are chatting. I still think that is pretty cool!)
• 2897[23:42:17] <nsrafk> Heheh, technology is amazing
• 2898[23:42:49] <rwp> kryo_, I think the release notes are complete but by needing to cover a lot of corner cases I think it makes it confusing.
• 2899[23:43:16] <kryo_> which release notes?
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• 2901[23:43:29] <rwp> The ones you referenced above replaced-url
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• 2904[23:44:06] <kryo_> oh
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• 2906[23:44:14] <kryo_> honestly everything seemed to work fine other than the grub
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• 2910[23:45:24] <rwp> If only grub failed then I suspect a mismatch of /boot the ESP partition /boot/efi grub-pc grub-efi-amd64 or some such.
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• 2915[23:47:10] <rwp> kryo_, Earlier replaced-url
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• 2917[23:47:58] <kryo_> yeah i believe i have the wrong version of tar or something
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• 2920[23:49:47] <kryo_> um
• 2921[23:49:55] <kryo_> so i managed to install a newer version of tar
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• 2923[23:50:13] <kryo_> replaced-url
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• 2925[23:50:33] <kryo_> its like all my system utilities have been replaced with old versions
• 2926[23:51:15] <kryo_> i honestly have no idea why this is the case but i guess i should reinstall
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