66[01:31:56] <oerheks> seems like a rewrite of POL/wine
replaced-url
67[01:33:02] <deku> Thank you! It was driving me insane because
I saw one in my repository for Debian and when I installed Flatpack
I saw the other and was wondering why are they the same program but
different names. Lol
68[01:33:23] <deku> I'm assuming they're basically
the same thing then right?
72[01:38:44] <nvz> the github for phoenicis seems to indicate
its not necessarily a rewrite but its the project changing name and
is v5 onward
73[01:39:00] <sney> iirc it's just a system for matching
wine environments to individual applications, so the wine backend
should be the same regardless
74[01:39:06] <nvz> it links to playonlinux for its
documentation/support and its sites seem very new
75[01:44:12] *** Quits: Adbray (~Adbray@replaced-ip) (Quit: Ah! By Brain!)
76[01:46:13] <nvz> not to mention the POL site says Version 5
is under development and has links to Phonicis
77[01:46:29] <nvz> so it'd appear the project is just
going to call it something else going forward
83[01:50:42] <jo3> In systemd-nspawn -b the `-b` option is for
`booting into the dir` what does they mean by booting? (Sorry if
sounds stupid, I thought booting is a process where initramfs and
systemd starts and stuff when machine is powered on) but why do
people used `booting` Can someone please explain?
84[01:54:16] <n4dir> isnt't systemd-nspawn something like
a debootstrap ?
85[01:54:30] <nvz> jo3: well after a couple years now I'm
still not sure what systemd even is exactly :D but sounds to me like
its similar in a way to how there is su and su - or su -l where one
is a shell as another user and one is a LOGIN shell.. but in this
case systemd is creating a new container which can either appear to
be merely a namespace of the current running system or appear as a
whole different freshly booted
86[01:54:36] <nvz> system
87[01:55:32] <sney> it's normal to have to
"boot" containers even if there isn't a discrete
kernel or init system. just running the instance on the cpu.
88[01:55:45] <sney> kind of like starting a service really
89[01:59:21] <nvz> jo3: in any case there is a #systemd channel
here where you can get more knowledgable information on systemd as
well as the docs on freedesktop.org
90[02:00:00] <deku> @nvz Thank you for the clarification. That
makes lots of sense now. That was driving me crazy today when I was
trying to figure out which one I should download.
91[02:00:11] <nvz> but I'm willing to bet my general
understanding of it is fairly accurate.. as the docs describe it as
being similar to an lxc container
93[02:00:38] <deku> In the software store it's saying the
new version is still alpha... I'm a dummy. lol
94[02:01:09] *** Quits: de-facto (~de-facto@replaced-ip) (Quit: See you around.)
95[02:01:11] <nvz> deku: yes well do us all a favor and
don't use social media conventions in IRC, and perhaps consider
not using social media :P we don't use @ to highlight people on
IRC it predates usertags
99[02:02:49] <deku> nvz: Sorry, I'm still pretty new with
IRC I still don't know a lot about this.
100[02:03:21] <nvz> yes well as I understand all sorts of modern
things have adopted these conventions.. and all of which I
personally loathe.. which is why I'm _here_
101[02:03:26] <jo3> nvz: I see, thanks. Im heading there
102[02:03:28] <deku> definitely slowly moving away from social
media in general. Besides mastodon.
103[02:03:40] <nvz> deku: you been using that? how do you like
it?
104[02:04:21] <nvz> deku: I looked into many federated social
networks and that one seemed like the most likely facebook
replacement for most people as it seemed to have apps for mobile and
stuff and worked much the same
105[02:06:15] <deku> nvz: I feel you on that. Most modern social
media is just pretty toxic these days in the current enviroment.
Mastodon is pretty neat, laid back more personal compared to
twitter. In twitter you're just yelling out in the ether, while
in Mastodon people actually sometimes respond and there's a
whole variety of subjects and servers you can talk about different
things on, almost like a IRC but with a fancy GUI in a way.
107[02:07:18] <nvz> deku: yeah I dont think I'm for it
anytime soon but I been suggesting it to people who are already on
social media.. trying to see if I could maybe get your average
person to move away from the corporate pseudosocial networking
108[02:08:49] <b30wulf> whats with that buggy update yesterday
of evolution-data-server evolution-data-server-common
111[02:09:23] <deku> nvz: Oh for sure, especially with all the
social hacking going going on those platforms being manipulated by
algorithms and whatnot creating these weird unorganic echochambers
and warzones of sorts. Mastodon feels more like Myspace before
Facebook took over.
112[02:09:28] *** Quits: Grldfrdom (uid391113@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
128[02:22:47] <nvz> ah, sucks.. why didn't you say so :P
129[02:23:57] <nvz> might wanna file a bug report on that then..
like 8 packages.. something sucks.. I'm sure that'll be
real helpful to the maintainer and upstream developers
145[02:36:44] <nvz> b30wulf: I figured as much.. but you're
going way out on a limb that someone 1) uses evolution 2) updated
recently 3) shares your opinion that it "sucks" and 4)
knows something more about it than you do
146[02:37:08] <nvz> without any detailed information, you are
very unlikely to get more than I'd given you, the tracker
page..
196[03:22:09] <maxtim> do programs like dd utilize
multi-cores/threads? I'm wondering if there is a benefit to
using a more powerful machine for things like disk cloning, or is
the bottleneck purely going to be the disk IO speed. (sorry if this
is the wrong channel for a discussion like this)
212[03:30:58] <maxtim> believe me, I have been eyeing a nicer
machine for a long time, even 12-cores would make me happy right now
213[03:31:09] <sney> like this thing:
replaced-url
214[03:31:46] <maxtim> oh that's pretty cool
215[03:31:50] <RoyK> pi4 has usb3, though
216[03:33:00] <RoyK> sney: I've used something like that, a
four port - used it to delete disks - works, but somewhat slow. This
one may be faster, though
217[03:33:39] <maxtim> yeah, the pi4 is pretty good. I have a
pi3b+ and it's just below acceptable for most things i want to
do with it. Pretty neat little device, though
220[03:34:40] <RoyK> only issue with the pi4 is heat - it really
should have been shipped with a heatsink or even a fan. it works
well without either under low load, though
221[03:36:04] <maxtim> i think my latte panda has the same issue
223[03:36:30] <maxtim> with heat. I really like that device,
though. expensive compared to the pi
224[03:36:33] <RoyK> dunno - never tried those
225[03:36:48] <maxtim> it's finicky to get windows off
226[03:37:44] <maxtim> which is a terrible idea, btw. windows on
a single board like that. stupid os crashed every time you did a
safe restart
227[03:38:09] <sney> I deployed some odroid c2s as digital
signage a couple years ago. nice upgrade compared to a pi(at the
time) without spending much more. embedded machines are pretty
single-purpose though, anything that was going to be "under
load" I would have gone x86
334[05:57:12] <goodpants> hi i love debian you guys rock!
335[05:58:36] <goodpants> i have been searching for a
centralized logging solution and I'm overwhelmed by the options
to use collectd, fluentd, greylog, ELK etc. and fuse it all
together. What are you using and what do you recommend to look into?
476[08:37:10] <kingsley> Do you happen to know of a command line
utility that reports how much memory was used by running the program
named in its parameter $1?
477[08:37:25] <kingsley> For example, it might look something
like...
531[09:55:08] <Regor> i am trying to compile st terminal (luke
smith's build) i am getting error ."Package harfbuzz was
not found in the pkg-config search path" how to fix this ? what
package do i need now ?
537[09:59:32] <Regor> "libharfbuzz-bin" package found
in apt search ..so trying it now
538[10:00:05] <allizom> Regor: I know nothing about what
you're building, but you'd presumably take note of its
build dependencies and install the needed -dev packages
539[10:01:05] *** Joins: mezzo (~mezzo@replaced-ip)
588[11:41:25] <ozfalcon> I had a power failure and on reboot of
the file server the external hard drive was corrupted. I'm
running fsck on the unmounted drive - But it appears to have hung.
Should I just let it go or interrupt the fsck process?
640[12:18:21] <ratrace> so if you leave it (vmstat) running for
a minute or so, it's all zeros? maybe occasional nonzero as the
system otherwise touches the disks, but no big nubmers like,
hundreds or thousands on each line?
686[12:32:42] <quadrathoch2> jim I guess judd just has outdated
information :/
687[12:33:44] <jim> I'm running buster with defailt
4.19.0-9 kernel...
688[12:33:56] <ozfalcon> it's going again.
689[12:34:00] <jim> do you think I need a later kernel?
690[12:34:49] <ratrace> ozfalcon: well you don't have to
narrate what it does :) wait for it to finish, or see if it reaches
the same state: cpu bound but no IO. at that point you could strace
it like rudi_s suggested, to see which syscalls it's hanging
around
691[12:36:14] <ratrace> if it doesn't, you could re-run
without -n, and with -y or -p optionally; test your backups first
692[12:36:36] <quadrathoch2> jim could you post the full name of
the wifi?
693[12:37:16] <ozfalcon> Perhaps it didn't hang in the
first place and was just really slow. (It's not the fastest
machine).
694[12:37:56] <ratrace> ozfalcon: fsck is primarily io-bound,
there's nothing much for it to calculate in cpu without IO
695[12:39:30] <jim> isn't it this:
696[12:40:11] <jim> ,pciid [8086:34f0]
697[12:40:12] <judd> [8086:34f0] is 'Killer Wi-Fi 6 AX1650i
160MHz Wireless Network Adapter (201NGW)' from 'Intel
Corporation' with kernel modules 'snd-hda-intel',
'ata-generic' in stretch. See also
replaced-url
698[12:40:13] <ozfalcon> Seems to be upto the same file. IO is
zero. But I'll just let it go.
699[12:42:54] <jim> quadrathoch2, see ^^ from judd
700[12:43:08] <jim> other than that, that's all I know
701[12:43:17] <quadrathoch2> jim, I guess you should be able to
update-initramfs and reboot.
737[12:59:49] <jim> ok, thanks, really appreciate the help...
enabling backports...
738[13:01:13] <ratrace> ozfalcon: I suppose it hung in some
kernel process that won't return to userland so no new syscalls
are made for strace to catch.... dunno.... weird like hell.
739[13:03:05] <ozfalcon> Yeah, I think I'll shutdown the
server and attach the drive to this machine.
774[13:26:01] <nvz> if you have further issues, I'd look
into that bug :P
775[13:26:11] <jim> ok
776[13:26:45] <nvz> its one case where they'll scan and
appear to work but wont actually conect unless you disable
predictable ifnames
777[13:27:47] <nvz> I never followed through with running it
down cause I couldnt get if renaming to work and then lost track of
an adapter that was effected
779[13:28:49] <jim> thanks a lot for the info... I have the page
open, I'll check that stuff out
780[13:33:04] <ozfalcon> ratrace, Interesting. Did the same
thing when attached to my machine. But after about 5min it continued
on. Now it's stalled on the next file. I think it's just
taking a long time to process.
821[14:28:41] <ozfalcon> ratrace, I don't think it did
timeout. It was just running & processing. I should have run
strace when I moved it to this machine.
823[14:30:49] <ozfalcon> ratrace, I do have another drive I
could test it on.... But it's busy re-copying the files that
were screwed up (5 hrs to copy over the (slow) 100Mbit network).
856[15:05:06] <no_gravity> Hello! I have a strange boot problem.
The system hangs at "started light manager" or similar.
But when I hit "CTRL+ALT+F1" and run "startx" I
go straight to Gnome and all seems fine. Any ideas how to go about
this?
887[15:15:24] <genr8_> you know theres a function button to
switch display output between internal and external? Maybe the
laptop is outputting to the external
888[15:15:25] <ratrace> greycat would've loved this
889[15:15:25] <no_gravity> At first I thought the hardware is
dead. Because I took it on a pretty wild scooter ride today.
917[15:21:47] <genr8_> i guess its fine then. you're just
operating on TTY1 now. which is cause you did Ctrl+Alt+F1 and ran
startx from it. Xorg should be running with lightdm on tty7
918[15:22:11] <genr8_> if its not, lightdm or Xorg got messed up
somehow
919[15:22:20] <ratrace> there aren't two xorgs running
here. there's only one (lockable) socket
921[15:23:32] <ratrace> so.... back to 10 minutes ago.....
ligthdm logs. Xorg.0.log too. (from /var/log, assuming that's
the "main" xorg log, your unprivileged startx is probably
logging into ~/.local/)
922[15:24:11] <genr8_> ratrace, its possible for two Xorgs to be
running.
923[15:24:22] <ratrace> I know, but one must specify different
sockets
924[15:24:28] <ratrace> ie. can't accidentally via `startx`
925[15:24:33] <genr8_> nope
926[15:24:42] <genr8_> ill pastebin mine after just trying it
962[15:35:25] <genr8_> well still, idk how that messed it up.
lightdm is pretty resilient. theres not even anything useful in the
config file by default
1074[17:14:28] <brutser> i have a ryzen 2400g system with 16G
ram, i wonder, do I need to set a SWAP partition and if so, what
would be the desired size? i don't need hibernation or sleep
functionality
1096[17:26:21] <brutser> PaulePanter: i don't think i used
swap before, but i was doing a re-installation and then wondered, do
i need a swap partition or not, i always do manual partitioning, so
yea
1097[17:26:34] <brutser> the system is a desktop system mainly
doing qemu-kvm
1098[17:26:41] <brutser> nothing else really
1099[17:27:15] <Eryn_1983_FL> ok ratrace
1100[17:27:24] <brutser> i always prevent to allocate memory to
the vm's to go over 80% of total memory available
1101[17:27:25] <Eryn_1983_FL> really
1102[17:27:31] <Eryn_1983_FL> what about systemd resolve?
1147[18:15:30] <karlpinc> PaulePanter: Having some swap is always
good. Unless you are certain you have more RAM than you will ever
use. This is never the case because RAM can always be used for file
system buffering. There's always very rarely used pages in any
application that can be swapped out to free RAM for something
useful.
1150[18:17:07] <karlpinc> brutser: It's always simplest to
install from the unoffical install images which contain non-free
firmware. Then your hardware gets the firmware it needs upon install
and you don't have to worry about it.
1151[18:17:18] <karlpinc> ratrace: Fair enough. Never is a long
time.
1172[18:30:30] <tinga> Hi. How do I find out what the backing
store is for a device like e.g. /dev/dm-6 ? I want to know if
it's encrypted and on which disk.
1175[18:33:49] <tomreyn> sudo dmsetup info /dev/dm-6
1176[18:33:56] <tinga> So, the first part can be answered via
`dmsetup ls |grep -F "($MAJOR:$MINOR)"` then taking the
first column and `dmsetup info $val`
1177[18:34:02] <tinga> yep
1178[18:34:18] <tinga> Now it's encrypted, how do I find out
what the backing store is?
1179[18:34:31] *** Quits: brutser (574149f0@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1180[18:35:14] <tinga> If there's a graphical tool that
simply shows me a graph with, or UI to click through, the
connections, that would be perfect.
1181[18:35:43] <tinga> (Command line is fine, too, though.)
1188[18:42:40] <tomreyn> i'm not aware of better tools. you
got the major + minor, can work with this, or with /dev/disk/by-*
1189[18:43:46] <tinga> Yes, I can make a program myself to make
it nice; but so far I haven't figured out any way to figure out
the backing store at all.
1190[18:45:24] <tomreyn> maybe lsblk is what you'r elooking
for
1277[20:07:55] <Han> There is a new release for
nicotine-plus-2.0.1. Is there a packager in here who might be
interested into bringing the current (10 year old) package up to
date?
1278[20:08:23] <Han> The source dir already contains a working
/debian dir so it shouldn't be too hard.
1279[20:08:59] *** Quits: mibo (~mibo@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1294[20:13:26] <brutser> got some boot errors when installing
debian on system with Asrock b450m pro4 / AMD 2400G + Asux GTX 960.
is there any expert around that have time to take a look at the boot
errors?
1295[20:14:10] <brutser> i use debian for 6 months now, so not
really an expert when it comes to technical stuff like this ^
1296[20:14:13] *** jukebohi is now known as juboxi
1297[20:14:29] <ratrace> brutser: pastebin and someone might know
1312[20:22:56] <ratrace> Han: that's just for the bug
report, not the package itself. see in the first post the requester
ack'd future resurrection for pygtk3
1313[20:23:04] <brutser> system with Asrock b450m pro4 / AMD
2400G + Asux GTX 960 ^^
1314[20:23:50] <ratrace> brutser: btw, you can get the "red
colored" items with journalctl -p err
1315[20:24:04] <brutser> ratrace: ok
1316[20:24:12] <brutser> ^^ i enabled IOMMU in BIOS because i
would like to setup qemu-kvm and passthrough the additional gpu in
the system for a Windows VM
1322[20:26:06] <brutser> so system has igpu with the 2400g apu
and also an asus gtx960 that i would like to use for passthrough as
explained above
1323[20:27:35] <brutser> i just started the setup/config, so i
just installed debian minimal and openbox, also installed
firmware-nonfree and firmware-realtek or whatever they are exact
called - so firmware-nonfree contains the amd stuff right? and
xserver-xorg-video-ati i installed for openbox
1324[20:27:38] <brutser> that's about it
1325[20:27:54] *** Quits: nifker (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1327[20:29:19] <brutser> just to be complete: i had one
additional boot error: sp5100-tco sp5100-tco: Watchdog hardware is
disabled << but i 'solved' this by blacklist
sp5100_tco << as the motherboard is not IPMI compliant anyway,
so i don't need this module to load and create this boot
error.. not 100% sure if I am right on this, but at least the boot
error disappeared
1328[20:29:40] <Han> okies. Let's see what happens.
1329[20:30:47] <brutser> ratrace: i hope you or any other expert
here can confirm this and also understand what the other boot errors
mean and how to fix, i googled hours, but could not find a suitable
solution yet - the IOMMU error, most solutions suggest to disable
IOMMU with a kernel parameter, but i will need IOMMU later on if i
want gpu passthrough right?
1330[20:31:42] <ratrace> brutser: I can't tell if those ACPI
errors are critical or just something you can safely ignore. I ahve
a few on some on my systems I can safely ignore, for example.
1331[20:32:07] <brutser> those ACPI problems are most likely not
critical, i always hate them to show up when booting, but i got
laptops too where they show, i believe the only way to get rid of
those is the motherboard manufacture to update BIOS right?
1332[20:32:12] <brutser> yes i was just writing that ^
1333[20:32:26] <ratrace> brutser: equally I can't tell if
that MMIO thing for nouveau is boot critical or not. I do know that
my main desktop doesn't boot with debian 10 due to nouveau
blocking boot, I have to go text mode and install nvidia, before I
can boot into normal gui
1369[20:44:49] <dpkg> backports.debian.org (formerly
backports.org) is an official repository of <backports> for
the current stable (see <buster backports>) and oldstable
(<stretch backports>) distributions, prepared by Debian
developers. Ask me about <backport caveat> and read
replaced-url
1370[20:44:57] <ratrace> brutser: you add/enable backports, but
don't run whole system upgrade. just install the kernel with -t
buster-backports
1371[20:45:06] <Kurogane> ratrace, how i do that?
1372[20:45:29] <ratrace> Kurogane: what do you need exactly, to
begin with?
1373[20:46:20] <Kurogane> that what you say, i need only run one
app to run libc6 2.25
1384[20:51:12] <brutser> ratrace: ok that will need me to reboot
most likely, so see you in a bit
1385[20:51:15] <dcarr> i just installed debian 10 and i have no
idea what it is using for networking
1386[20:51:25] <RoyK> ratrace: I haven't read the whole
backlog. Why do you need a new kernel?
1387[20:51:54] <ratrace> RoyK: I recommended it to brutser due to
certain amdgpu kernel traces and problems with 4.19, and they got a
newer-ish hardware
1388[20:51:56] <brutser> RoyK: i got several boot erros
1390[20:52:10] <dcarr> i am used to just setting up netctl, but
sadly that wont work in this case... /etc has config files for
programs not installed, and all the guides i have found point to
using legacy software that isnt even on my system anyways
1393[20:52:27] <dpkg> Your network configuration is in the file
/etc/network/interfaces ; "man 5 interfaces" for
documentation, "zless
/usr/share/doc/ifupdown/examples/network-interfaces.gz" for
example configurations. Start and stop your networking with ifup -a
and ifdown -a respectively.
replaced-url
1394[20:52:27] <ratrace> dcarr: /etc/network/interfaces is the
default, using ifupdown framework
1395[20:52:47] <brutser> ratrace: i need to re-install firmware
after i installed the new kernel?
1396[20:52:49] <ratrace> dcarr: however, on GUI installations,
the NetworkManager might overtake that, depending on its config
1397[20:52:55] <brutser> should i also install that from
backports?
1398[20:53:21] <ratrace> brutser: I don't see any relevant
firmware packages in backports
1399[20:53:43] <ratrace> you don't have to reinstall,
firmware files are not bound to kernel version afaik
1400[20:53:48] <dcarr> i stripped it of the gui it came with
since i didnt want that installed in the first place and put i3 on
it instead, but it will mainly be just cli
1429[20:58:46] *** Quits: Rue (~rue@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
1430[20:59:21] <ratrace> dcarr: you can start with
debootstrap'd installation but that's pretty much what oyu
get with regular installation and selecting NO tasks or software to
install
1440[21:02:16] <ratrace> brutser: you can ignore that nouveau
probem if you intend to pass it through to the VM. acpi errors are
something I wouldn't know where to start, it's usually a
loud mess (sometimes harmless). as for that amdgpu firmware missing,
well... seems like that's not packaged
1441[21:02:24] <dcarr> okay i think i can make debbootstrap work
for me.. i can put it on a simple 28g jumpdrive right?
1445[21:02:56] <dcarr> and use that to bootstrap it to whatever
system i choose
1446[21:03:52] <ratrace> dcarr: debootstrap is a package.
it's available on other distros too. you can use it to install
minimal debian installation into a directory.
1447[21:04:01] <dcarr> cause after using arch for so long, this
graphical install is so complex
1449[21:04:17] <ratrace> dcarr: keep in mind, that
"minimal" here means it installs no kernel, no grub,
doesn't set up root pass, nor ssh server, nor networking.
1450[21:04:29] <dcarr> similar to arch
1451[21:04:36] <ratrace> dcarr: use the ncurses installer and
just hit enter. it's not that more complex at all
1472[21:08:17] <ratrace> brutser: frankly I don't know.
maybe you don't even need that firmware, and maybe it can be
found in newer (not yet backported) packages for bullseye or sid
1473[21:09:03] <ratrace> brutser: right, for example the
amdgpu/raven_ta.bin thingy is available in sid's
firmware-amd-graphics package
1474[21:09:19] <brutser> ok
1475[21:09:24] <brutser> i will try install that separately
1476[21:09:42] <ratrace> the package has no dependencies, so you
_might_ be able to pull off a heresy and install ONLY that one from
sid. or do a backport yourself.
1477[21:09:48] <ratrace> !ssb
1478[21:09:49] <dpkg> First, check for a backport on
<debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for
sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable
debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) apt update; apt install
build-essential; apt build-dep packagename 4) apt -b source
packagename 5) dpkg -i packagename-ver.deb To change compilation
options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid
see <uupdate>.
1479[21:09:53] <dcarr> okay so last question for now, how do i
make systemd auto start my network profiles
1480[21:10:16] <brutser> that sounds complicated ^
1485[21:10:39] <sney> firmware packages just copy a bunch of
binary files to /lib/firmware, there is no compilation involved
1486[21:10:49] <dcarr> i use static ip addrs
1487[21:11:06] <sney> tarballs with newer firmware than
what's in debian can be downloaded from kernel.org as well.
replaced-url
1488[21:11:11] <ratrace> brutser: but in this case,
recommendations AGAINST notwithstanding, perhaps you can just pull
that one from sid, just like you did the kernel from backports
1489[21:11:29] <RoyK> sney: that's the funny thing about it.
firmware is the sneaky way to import closed source into an otherwise
open-source system
1491[21:11:49] <sney> indeed, hence the existence of linux-libre
1492[21:12:11] <dcarr> why cant i put a dash in my user name?
1493[21:12:18] <shibboleth> is it possible to determine the
max/supported mtu sizes for an interface?
1494[21:12:46] <ratrace> dcarr: typically you set up network via
/etc/network/interfaces, which is used by networking.service, but
nothing prevents you from using systemd-networkd, if you're
familiar with that from arch
1495[21:13:10] <dcarr> actuly i used netctl
1496[21:13:35] <ratrace> that's some Archlinux NIH? like
netplan is for Ubuntu?
1497[21:13:41] <dcarr> but as long as the profile file i put in
etc/network/interfaces does the job
1498[21:14:14] <dcarr> i just need it to start on boot, so i dont
have to loginto the system directly
1504[21:15:03] <brutser> you will have to select your hardware
for that purpose if you want to live without firmware
1505[21:15:39] <ratrace> that's something even Purism Librem
can't do fully :)
1506[21:15:41] <dcarr> then why didnt those come up when i
searched for alternitives
1507[21:15:54] <dcarr> oh well thats why im here, thanks man
1508[21:15:55] <nvz> you can't live without firmware.. you
can live without nonfree firmware..
1509[21:16:21] <ratrace> depends
1510[21:16:35] <brutser> i once had a laptop with coreboot
flashed onto the bios chip, but then after doing that, realized i
need firmware for amd graphics - so then i am back to closed source
blobs
1511[21:16:40] <jhutchins> Firmware usually implemeents
government mandated controls, that's why it's not open.
1526[21:20:49] <brutser> anyway, i am going off topic, i still
have my boot errors to worry about :)
1527[21:21:13] <Boodie> Hi, [buster]. I am trying to setup the
cloud service on BT, anybody here familiar?
1528[21:22:02] <ratrace> !ask
1529[21:22:02] <dpkg> If you have a question, just ask! For
example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian
version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I
expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if
anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all
volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get
an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org.
See <smart questions><errors>.
1530[21:22:23] <nvz> Bittorrent? Bluetooth? British Telecom?
1531[21:22:42] * nvz rolls eyes at two letter acronyms
1552[21:27:12] <nvz> well one thing is for sure, they don't
use slavery.. which is apparent from their website :D
1553[21:27:40] <Boodie> I managed to upload my files,
drag&dropping a directory on their "portal", but the
apps sync the files "incrementally" ... the threads of
discussion seem to confirm that BT does not offer this service for
Linux
1554[21:27:44] <nvz> so I guess you can't use the slavery
protocol *shrugs*
1555[21:28:01] <Boodie> Slavery?
1556[21:28:19] <Boodie> I thought it was illegal nowadays :)
1557[21:28:20] <ratrace> like slavery, just abolish BT too.
plenty of linux friendly services ousside.
1558[21:28:27] <dcarr> boy that came out of left feild
1587[21:34:14] <nvz> linux distros have little say in what they
have support for.. unless its something like a disk controller or
such that is required for installation.. and even then you can still
just boot from a compatible kernel and install and use a kernel from
elsewhere
1588[21:34:18] *** Quits: brutser (574149f0@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1589[21:34:53] <dcarr> well i agree, but i have found that rpm
based systems dont like supporting legacy hardware
1590[21:34:54] <nevyn> dcarr: ubuntu dropping it is ithr
they've dropped it from their kernel build (which would be
wierd) if it's still in current upstream kernels.
1596[21:36:46] <dcarr> well i have never liked ubuntu and if i
use debian, it will be og debian like 10 as is the current version
1597[21:36:50] *** Quits: kreyren_ (~kreyren@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1598[21:36:51] <abrotman> dcarr: mind you, centos is really just
RHEL repackaged .. so ultimately, that was a RH decision
1599[21:37:35] <dcarr> and so is fedora
1600[21:38:01] <dcarr> my point is that it is 'their'
decision, therefore what is 'debian's decison
1601[21:38:45] <abrotman> it's supported now, and
that's what we can say
1602[21:38:56] <dcarr> okay thanks
1603[21:38:57] <abrotman> Aren't tulip cards still 100Mb?
1604[21:39:00] <abrotman> 10Mb?
1605[21:39:04] <abrotman> they're so old :)
1606[21:39:17] <dcarr> yes, but until we can afford newer hw this
is what we are using
1607[21:39:21] <genr8_> i dont even know what a tulip card is
1608[21:39:53] <abrotman> genr8_: you can look for the driver in
the kernel code .. you'll see companies that disappeared long
ago
1609[21:39:54] <dcarr> an olde intel pci eth card
1610[21:40:02] <dcarr> or at least mine is
1611[21:40:05] <genr8_> also, centos drops stuff because redhat
is forced to maintain customer support for them. if debian drops
support you can choose to install the old version yourself
1641[21:46:47] <dcarr> its going to be a simple bios boot, no
uefi
1642[21:47:02] <nvz> as of right now to have a kernen and room to
build the initrd you're lookin at about 50-75MB per kernel
1643[21:47:29] <dcarr> aside from updates, i plan to only have
the stock kernel
1644[21:47:32] <dcarr> nothing fancy
1645[21:47:36] <nvz> so if you plan to not keep more than 2-4
kernels, 250-300MB is fine
1646[21:47:38] <dcarr> just a rescue stick
1647[21:47:45] <abrotman> 200MB should be fine
1648[21:47:52] <dcarr> awsome thx
1649[21:47:59] <abrotman> average kernel is about 50MB in /boot
1650[21:48:09] <abrotman> so .. if you want three kernels ..
that's probably fine
1651[21:48:29] <abrotman> my current /boot/ wiht 2 kernels is
150MB
1652[21:48:37] <abrotman> (grub is under /boot/)
1653[21:48:56] <abrotman> as is efi/
1654[21:49:25] <abrotman> dcarr: also, if you can, use LVM, and
leave some space
1655[21:49:29] <dcarr> my main one duel boots 10 and arch, so it
has uefi, and ends up being 256mb
1656[21:49:36] <petn-randall> I usually make /boot 512MB, as I
sometimes test several kernels for bisecting bugs.
1657[21:49:50] <petn-randall> But that's just me, most
people get along with less.
1658[21:50:03] <dcarr> well i dont like using lvm's if i can
avoid it
1659[21:50:08] <abrotman> you guys probably have 100GB HDDs or
something huge!
1660[21:50:22] <dcarr> actily ~1tb
1661[21:50:32] <abrotman> dcarr: do you need to have /boot on its
own partition at all?
1662[21:50:36] <dcarr> but its an old win8 laptop
1663[21:51:07] <nvz> yes I had used the defaul of about 250 with
auto-partitioning for encrypted lvm and on my T440 I have debian
stock, backports, and custom and I have encountered errors on
updates with building initrd due to running out of space.. but on
systems I use only a debian kernel, 100MB is usually what it is to
have the old and updated kernels
1664[21:51:09] <genr8_> it helps for stuff like encrypted LVM or
whatever
1694[22:01:59] <genr8_> do you have any scripts for saving config
files and re-installign debian?
1695[22:02:24] <dcarr> me?
1696[22:02:34] <genr8_> yes. you seem like you know what
you're doing
1697[22:02:46] <jmcnaught> Sia-: cups only listens on localhost
by default, look at /etc/cups/cupsd.conf
1698[22:02:48] <dcarr> oh no, tbh i am a hardcore arch user
1699[22:02:59] <genr8_> ah
1700[22:03:06] <dcarr> i am using deb because pi-hole isnt really
supported on ach sadly :((
1701[22:03:08] <brachamh> oh that's right, you have to set
it to listen on the network
1702[22:03:34] <genr8_> 2 networks 1 cups
1703[22:04:13] <dcarr> but to answer your question, yes and no, i
have started scripts but my dad pointed out that they take the fun
out of manual install so i never actuly finished them
1704[22:04:15] <Sia-> jmcnaught, i've installed on debian
server
1705[22:04:24] <Sia-> not on my own computer
1706[22:05:12] <brachamh> Sia-, so you have to remote into the
server and change the settings in the config file jmcnaught
mentioned
1707[22:05:53] <brachamh> i set it all up on my ubuntu server a
while ago...took a while to find all the settings, but it works
great now! going to have to redo it sometime here as i'm
setting up the replacement debian server.
1733[22:14:08] <genr8_> i was hoping for some kind of script that
runs a checksum on the new install, or runs a diff of your old
configs, and does the thing Apt does where it says
"Yes/No/Keep/Delete/Manual"
1734[22:14:16] <brachamh> Sia-, sorry, i got the port wrong this
time
1763[22:22:00] <ryouma> what i would do to install things not in
debian is check backports then if not there or trustworthy looking
then try to install from upstream into home dir or /opt using
upstream instructions. this is not CORRECT in debian but i ahve
tried creating my own backports and ... ugh.
1793[22:32:56] <ryouma> what really annoys me a great deal is
shadowfox (i think that is what it is called) which is the only
firefox darkener that is supposed to actually work, but has a binary
blob to install it. depriving myelf o that is a problem for
accessibility reasons. would be great as a debian package.
1795[22:33:58] <ryouma> (isn't erally a binary blob as much
as a go program that seems completely unnecessary to just install
static files)
1796[22:34:24] <ryouma> (and i don't want to vet go)
1797[22:34:26] <genr8_> my /opt is filled with electron programs
that are just duplicating their electron layer out of lazyness and
wasting 100MB of space
1798[22:35:12] <dcarr> well guys im going to go on a short walk
so bye for now
1831[22:48:05] <dpkg> CUPS (formerly Common Unix Printing System)
provides a portable printing layer for Unix-based operating systems
and supports the Internet Printing Protocol. To install, ask me
about <cups setup>. See also <debug cups>.
replaced-url
1832[22:49:19] *** Quits: soul-d (~name@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1833[22:49:24] <genr8_> look a cups channel
1834[22:50:21] <Sia-> genr8_, you didnøt without searching
in google and throw it here. any way thanks even was pointless all
you chat
1861[22:59:17] <jaysbnc> when i had this issues in the past on a
host i ran spinner and all was fine. but that host giving me a hard
time, everythin else is good
1862[22:59:17] <Sia-> jhutchins, i did as debian wiki 100%
1865[23:00:29] <jaysbnc> genr8_: allready checkd that
1866[23:00:31] <jaysbnc> no
1867[23:01:04] <genr8_> google 'SSH timeout'
1868[23:01:13] <jaysbnc> i am running „Linux debian10
4.19.0-9-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.19.118-2+deb10u1“
1869[23:02:06] <mutante> jaysbnc: tried replacing the ethernet
cable on that host?
1870[23:02:09] <genr8_> There should already be occasional
keep-alive packets sent. probably something else is dropping the
connection.
1871[23:02:34] <n_1-c_k> jaysbnc, try 'autossh',
I've found it works well to mitigate a sometimes intermittent
connection.
1872[23:02:43] <jaysbnc> genr8_: i am using „spinner“
to avoid any timeout issues
1873[23:03:08] <jaysbnc> mutante: its a virtual host. all other
services work fine
1874[23:03:18] <mutante> if it's just one of 10 hosts and
they are in the same data center then it seems unlikely it has to do
with the general network though
1875[23:03:30] <mutante> more like what could be different about
that 1 host
1883[23:05:51] <jaysbnc> but even opening ssh on the firewall
results in fast ssh connection drops
1884[23:06:12] <jaysbnc> i can start a few commands, but when its
a lot of text, it breaks down
1885[23:06:14] <genr8_> if you see any error messages like
"Resource Temporarily Unavailable" its gonna be a resource
limit issue.
1886[23:06:30] <jaysbnc> genr8_:
1887[23:07:27] <jaysbnc> genr8_: memory is nearly not used. its
just an vpn gateway to my home network. running iperf3 sometime. but
that works totally fine
1888[23:08:28] <genr8_> are you using a pfsense firewall?
1889[23:10:04] <jaysbnc> genr8_: my local openwrt is connected to
that gateway
1890[23:10:28] <genr8_> I would consider that suspect
1891[23:10:42] <jaysbnc> but thats not the issue. pings are
totally perferct. even when i ssh directly into the machine its
stalling.
1892[23:10:53] <genr8_> either the cable, or the port, or the
software on the openwrt is set to reset states, or a hardware reset
in the unit itself
1893[23:11:35] <genr8_> if theres nothing in logs, its some kind
of network hardware error
1948[23:39:43] <mutante> hah, nice. so wireguard had to be the
difference
1949[23:39:50] <dym> Hey! Im running Debian 10 with Gnome
Classic. Is there any way to show the frequencies of stored/past
wlan connections?
1950[23:41:44] *** Quits: graphicsv (uid340368@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
1951[23:42:55] <genr8_> well the frequencies are determined by
Wifi Channels. thats determined inside the wireless card. but the OS
should know what channels its on.
1955[23:43:32] <dym> genr8_: Im looking for the frequency of a
network i was connected roughly 7 days ago. Will there be evidence
in a log?
1956[23:43:59] <genr8_> no, look for Channels
1957[23:44:27] <genr8_> the networks are determined by SSID and
channel number
1958[23:44:57] <dym> I am not connected to the network right now.
1959[23:45:05] <kedar_apte> are you maintaining the syslogs
somewhere?
1960[23:45:24] <kedar_apte> I thing the wpa supplicant log will
show you the frequesncy number
1961[23:45:33] <kedar_apte> wpa supplicant log will b ein
/var/log/
1962[23:46:54] <dym> kedar_apte: unfortunately there is no such
log. I found some bits in syslog and messages, but just references
to network manager files, lacking the content im seeking.
1963[23:47:12] <kedar_apte> hmm ok
1964[23:47:36] <jaysbnc> thanks guys
1965[23:47:43] <jaysbnc> my connection is now rock solid
1968[23:50:19] <genr8_> yea it looks like wpa_supplicant does
know what frequencies they are
1969[23:50:27] <jaysbnc> next topic: which notebook do you
recommend? i was thinking about a huawei matebook 13 with amd ryzen
7 4500h. any expirience on that?
1979[23:54:56] <genr8_> laptops have gotten to stupid levels of
proprietary these days. and huawei is now a security risk
1980[23:55:58] <genr8_> Ryzen 4500's are good, but they can
usually only put them in alternative model laptops cause Intel has
vendor deal lockins on the primary models
1981[23:59:43] <genr8_> and AMD did not even follow through with
their promise for open firmware. its still closed. and then it leads
to linux support issues