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• 3[00:02:11] <LtL> Ede|Popede: yes sir
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• 8[00:03:09] <Ede|Popede> LtL: willing to share? would save me tons if disk space ;)
• 9[00:03:36] <LtL> Ede|Popede: they changed the networking here, my logs were full of dhcprequests. i deleted the *.lease files in /varlib/dhcp/
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• 11[00:03:55] <LtL> and re-booted
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• 13[00:04:06] <Ede|Popede> all i got there is an empty dhclient.eth0.leases
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• 15[00:04:29] <LtL> Ede|Popede: mine were empty also, go figure
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• 17[00:05:00] <Ede|Popede> deleting now, rebooting later, should also work i hope
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• 19[00:05:30] <Ede|Popede> finally i have again uptimes of more than couple of days :)
• 20[00:05:42] <LtL> Ede|Popede: g'luck
• 21[00:05:46] <Ede|Popede> thx
• 22[00:05:53] <aedinius> 17:05:51 up 128 days, 23:19, 2 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
• 23[00:06:09] <LtL> nice
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• 25[00:06:27] <Ede|Popede> 52 days here. think i didn't have to reboot since install
• 26[00:06:38] <aedinius> I reboot occasionaly
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• 29[00:07:21] <aedinius> Best thing I did was buy a UPS
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• 31[00:07:51] <aedinius> And it only runs a few services, so when those update it's pretty easy to just restart them. Only thing is kernel updates...
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• 34[00:08:38] <Ede|Popede> i had this 'BUG: soft lockup - CPU#1 stuck for 23s!' for a long time with the old system, was about to migrate. but since stretch no more problems :shrug: :happy:
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• 39[00:10:44] <LtL> Ede|Popede: there is a definite bug in dhclient, i got 71,000 hits googling that but my laptop never did it. odd
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• 41[00:10:56] <Ede|Popede> oh right. this was the only forced reboot *cough* i had since install. LED bulb managed to kill the switch, i wanted to test if it was really the bulb, well... the lamp i choose for this was on the same circuit as the pc. well done, really -.-
• 42[00:11:18] <Ede|Popede> LtL: any idea what the relevant difference may be?
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• 44[00:11:44] <LtL> Ede|Popede: not really, no
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• 47[00:12:44] <Ede|Popede> reminds me of gvfsd-metadata hammering the disk
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• 73[00:39:53] <LtL> Ede|Popede: i'm am faily certain this box didn't recognize the domain change in networking. All the network here from soup to nuts was changed, seems this bx never re-configured iself to it.
• 74[00:41:21] <LtL> and i hate the new firewall they use [SonicWall] but i can work around that.
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• 76[00:42:24] <Ede|Popede> the only thing that changed *here* was debian's version number. i should check if it did this from the beginning (and then if it didn't do it until the change)
• 77[00:42:48] <LtL> I still get TDLS Invalid frame junk, but i filtered that with /etc/rsyslog.conf but it still shows up in journalctl
• 78[00:43:02] <Ede|Popede> sa,e pc, same provider, same setup, same everything... only the numbers of forced reboots went down to 0 \o/
• 79[00:43:13] <fearnothing> hi, I'm having an issue that I don't exactly know how to explain
• 80[00:43:48] <Ede|Popede> fearnothing and goon :)
• 81[00:43:53] <fearnothing> I'm using xming and putty to render virt-manager, and the cursor tracking has gone completely out
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• 84[00:44:05] <fearnothing> I can't get my pointer to track my Windows cursor
• 85[00:44:26] <fearnothing> I know rebooting the debian box will fix it, but that should mean that it's possible to fix without the reboot
• 86[00:44:29] <fearnothing> I just don't know how
• 87[00:44:32] <fearnothing> or what to google
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• 117[00:56:42] <LtL> fearnothing: my only guess is a mis-configured putty protocol, i don't know what xming is.
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• 166[01:44:11] <BCMM> xming is an x server for windows
• 167[01:44:16] <BCMM> oh that was an hour ago sorry
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• 173[01:46:50] <LtL> keyword = windows ?
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• 177[01:47:59] <BCMM> putty was another good hint (although a handful of people use putty on linux)
• 178[01:48:18] <mutante> it wouldnt matter if it was an hour ago or ten.. if people would stay online
• 179[01:48:28] <LtL> BCMM: i can't fathom why
• 180[01:48:39] <BCMM> (so was fearnothing saying "Windows", i guess)
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• 184[01:50:05] <BCMM> i wonder if this is something like, Xming doesn't allow applications to move the cursor, but virt-manager does allow guest OSs to move the cursor...
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• 231[02:32:29] <LtL> aedinius: you still here? 128 days uptime.. did you skip point releases?
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• 235[02:36:49] <cha18> I have a logical volume dedicated to /srv that I recently added a disk to and expanded the lv to double its size. I have another host automounting it, by an entry in /etc/fstab. The original host shows the proper, doubled volume is present at /srv (shows in mount and df). However the remote instance is automounting the share, but the volume is not changed (still shows ~400gb)
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• 237[02:39:37] <cha18> oops. The host is showing the LV as both disks, but `lsblk` is only showing /srv as the original size.
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• 239[02:41:10] <aedinius> LtL: it's due for a reboot, honestly. but the only that hasn't been updated is the kernel (it's there waiting for the reboot)
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• 241[02:41:50] <LtL> aedinius: ok
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• 263[03:08:59] <fuxxy> Anyone familiar with kerberos? I'm having *ahem* issues getting debian to authenticate to AD for NFS client connection
• 264[03:09:52] <fuxxy> Following a guide that seems to be working, but it's asking me to run 'gsscred' to map usernames - I cant find a package that supplies 'gsscred'
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• 277[03:15:47] <fuxxy> hmm, apparently a reboot sorted it out
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• 279[03:16:00] <fuxxy> groups are still fscked, but I can deal with that
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• 389[05:41:10] <daniel-s> sudo something_1 && something_2
• 390[05:41:18] <daniel-s> is something_2 being run as su?
• 391[05:41:29] <themill> no
• 392[05:41:31] <awal1> easytag window exceed screen size. how do you solve that
• 393[05:41:34] <awal1> ?
• 394[05:41:47] <daniel-s> themill: thanks
• 395[05:41:49] <awal1> resizing won't help
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• 397[05:43:19] <themill> daniel-s: things like ;, &, && are instructions to the shell and are where the commands are split before being executed.
• 398[05:43:58] <themill> daniel-s: (run "sudo whoami && whoami")
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• 433[06:16:54] <ElDiabolo> Is there a template for packaging a library?
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• 435[06:19:21] <agio> I think the dh_* utilities build it automatically
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• 446[06:31:43] * iflema samiam
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• 462[06:51:31] <rant> daniel-s: fwiw thats just saying that IF sudo something_1 exits successfully, then run something_2
• 463[06:52:13] <rant> seperating commands with ; runs them sequentually regardless, but && requires a successful result to run the next command
• 464[06:52:25] <daniel-s> Yeah, thanks, I just didn't understand where sudo applied, but knowing that && is where bash splits commands, then runs them, it makes more sense.
• 465[06:52:38] <rant> and the & just causes it to run the previous command in the background and go on to the next simultaneously
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• 467[06:53:02] <rant> yes but as I was saying, each of the 3 themill mentioned have different behavior
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• 470[06:53:27] <daniel-s> Thanks
• 471[06:53:28] <rant> && doesn't split and run UNLESS the first command exits successfully
• 472[06:53:37] <rant> if it ends with an error the 2nd wont run
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• 479[07:00:25] <rant> sleep 2; echo "this ran after two seconds"; sleep 10 & echo "this ran after the last echo"; false && echo "this didn't run at all"
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• 515[07:42:12] <piercedwater> using about 2.5GB of RAM w/ XFCE
• 516[07:42:20] <piercedwater> have a couple of apps open
• 517[07:42:22] <piercedwater> wbu
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• 554[08:09:13] <darxmurf> replaced-url
• 555[08:11:03] <piercedwater> :D
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• 570[08:28:21] * Haohmaru adds "Linux ate my homework" to his excuses.txt
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• 622[09:19:42] <eugenio> hi all, do you know if debian squeeze repo are still existing somewhere?
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• 629[09:24:34] <themill> !archive.debian.org
• 630[09:24:35] <dpkg> Debian has archives of no-longer-supported releases at replaced-url
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• 701[09:53:17] <jelly> om nom
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• 725[10:08:40] <Haohmaru> >:)
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• 745[10:21:44] <flexy> Trying to install owncloud server on sid. It does not work with php7.3, so I installed 7.0 and enabled it in apache conf after disabling 7.3. Owncloud wants php module curl, which depends on libcurl3, which conflicts with libcurl4. How to go around this without borking the system with removing libcurl4?
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• 748[10:22:32] <quackgyver> I'm trying to install Debian 9 via the graphical installer, and due to the unusual combination of location+language it can't find a relevant locale
• 749[10:22:38] <quackgyver> but, it's not giving me a whole lot of options either
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• 752[10:22:52] <quackgyver> Is there no way to expand the available locales?
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• 755[10:23:55] <shtrb> flexy, owncloud had been banned from debian last I checked
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• 757[10:24:01] <shtrb> ,v owncloud
• 758[10:24:02] <judd> No package named 'owncloud' was found in amd64.
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• 761[10:25:15] <shtrb> flexy, try setting up curl and php before owncloud and verify that it work , after that adjust owncloud to support the more recent version of curl
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• 763[10:26:54] <flexy> shtrb: Yeah, owncloud is not from official repo. I had 7.3 versions up and got message on browser that owncloud does not support 7.3 php, nothing else showing...
• 764[10:26:57] <quackgyver> Anyone?
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• 768[10:27:58] <shtrb> flexy, you can enable php logging to get more info
• 769[10:28:35] <shtrb> quackgyver, you can setup the locale after the installation (or to adjust your d-i)
• 770[10:29:08] <quackgyver> Alright, thank you
• 771[10:29:10] <quackgyver> What's d-i tho
• 772[10:29:32] <shtrb> debian-installer
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• 774[10:29:43] <quackgyver> ah okay
• 775[10:29:44] <quackgyver> thanks! :)
• 776[10:30:07] <shtrb> the fastest way is to just setup the local post the installation
• 777[10:30:28] <quackgyver> gotcha, ill do that
• 778[10:30:28] <quackgyver> thank ye
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• 780[10:33:05] <shtrb> np have fun
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• 783[10:40:27] <Rico> hi
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• 785[10:41:14] <flexy> shtrb: replaced-url
• 786[10:42:24] <flexy> pretty clear that 7.3 is not supported yet, sid does not have 7.2, but 7.0 php would work. But can't get php module curl installed because dependency problem.
• 787[10:43:30] <shtrb> I mean install the curl for the php version you can install
• 788[10:44:41] <flexy> ok, it's installed. How do I get it to work with php7.0?
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• 790[10:45:15] <shtrb> do a demo php file with php7 to check curl is working
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• 792[10:45:35] <flexy> I'm unable to write php
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• 795[10:46:27] <flexy> owncloud works with php7.0 stuff, but it complains its missing php-curl module. Well, it is. The 7.0 version.
• 796[10:46:38] <shtrb> #owncloud ?
• 797[10:47:09] <agio> why aren't you installing nextcloud?
• 798[10:47:18] <flexy> well, this aint really owncloud issue, as they clearly state that 7.3 is not supported yet.
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• 801[10:48:19] <agio> seeing that you aren't installing the debian packaged owncloud anyway?
• 802[10:49:07] <flexy> agio: I've been using owncloud so far, then got a hw failure which borked 10y old debian installation beyond recovery (and my bad, did not have recent backup), so I'm tryint to get owncloud again... I have android doing uploads to the owncloud server... dont know if those apps in android works with other cloud servers?
• 803[10:49:29] <flexy> agio: there is no debian package for owncloud in the official repos
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• 811[10:50:39] <agio> right, just looking to see if nextcloud supports php 7.3
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• 822[10:51:00] <agio> also, how are you planning to backup owncloud anyway?
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• 830[10:51:52] <Rico> hello, I have a strange problem installing debian (trying netboot 9.5, 9.6, and PXE
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• 839[10:52:12] <Rico> /lib/partman/lib/base.sh: line 516: syntax error: unexpected ";"
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• 849[10:52:46] <flexy> agio: I have used owncloud to backup stuff from my android phone. Backing up those backups are a different thing, which would be handled by just normal hdds locally.
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• 873[10:53:53] <flexy> agio: and there is no nextcloud package in sid either...
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• 906[10:54:33] <shtrb> flexy, fair notice - owncloud/nextcloud backups works for the same version only not for inter version ! (every major version upgrade you essentially reinstall from scratch)
• 907[10:54:50] <agio> flexy: thats my point - you are doing it all manually anyway so - why not use nextcloud?
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• 911[10:55:40] <flexy> agio, well, I've been using owncloud, so that was my first attempt to get that one up again. Know that one and it had been working.
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• 916[10:56:09] <agio> here is backup solutionfor nextcloud 12
• 917[10:56:11] <agio> replaced-url
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• 920[10:56:51] <agio> looks insanely complicated (:
• 921[10:56:53] <agio> :(
• 922[10:57:35] <shtrb> agio, owncloud and nextcloud both can work on top of other very integrated solutions (such as ldap , radius , ejabberd )
• 923[10:57:47] <shtrb> it works very nicly if you work with them
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• 925[10:59:04] <flexy> its not the backupping of anything thats my problem now, it's the fact that owncloud is not yet php7.3 ready and one necessary php7.0 package conflicts with shitload of packages...
• 926[10:59:10] <HicksD> Anyone know if/when the 4.19 kernel final release might appear in experimental or sid?
• 927[10:59:41] <jelly> no (when it's ready)
• 928[10:59:51] <agio> flexy: im trying to see if nextcloud supports your php 7.0 now... other option is to run it in a LXC container?
• 929[11:00:38] <flexy> agio: php7.3 is fine too, if it supports it. Actually it might be better.
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• 932[11:01:47] <agio> flexy: I support your thinking regarding owncloud backups - is that owncloud essentially *is* your backup (of your mobile stuff) right?
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• 937[11:03:41] <shtrb> agio, you didn't ask me , but owncloud is a full blown solution for internal cloud it delivers many services in one place with a very nice interface
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• 943[11:05:32] <agio> shtrb: for sure, I agree, Im just wondering isn't nextcloud everything owncloud is - but better?
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• 948[11:07:48] <agio> says here nextcloud 14 supports php 7.0, 7.1, 7.2
• 949[11:07:59] <agio> replaced-url
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• 955[11:09:44] <Fox> I use Nextcloud with php 7.2 from sury, works like a charm
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• 960[11:12:34] <agio> nice, which version of nextcloud Fox?
• 961[11:12:51] <Fox> 14.0.3
• 962[11:12:57] <Fox> latest stable one
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• 966[11:13:24] <agio> is it hard to do the upgrades?
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• 968[11:13:45] <Fox> upgrade from where to where ?
• 969[11:14:03] <agio> from version to version
• 970[11:14:13] <Fox> version of php or version of nextcloud ?
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• 974[11:15:07] <agio> next cloud - unless you have to coordinate the two ..?
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• 976[11:15:39] <Fox> no need to coordinate, except when moving to a version of NC that needs a minimal version of php you don't have yet
• 977[11:15:56] <Fox> upgrading nextcloud is almost flawless
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• 979[11:16:59] <agio> oh, didnt they actually make nextcloud forcibly self-update?
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• 981[11:18:18] <Fox> no, not selfupdating, but you have two ways: using cli or the webinterface, both are quite straightforward
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• 983[11:19:15] <agio> what about phoning home to discover if new updates are available, is that automatic?
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• 985[11:19:58] <shtrb> Fox are you using all services inside nextcloud or you relay on external services such as ldap, ejabberd, dovecot etc
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• 987[11:20:28] <Fox> shtrb: I don't use any of these
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• 990[11:20:42] <shtrb> oh
• 991[11:20:50] <Fox> I use it for calendar/contacts/store files/webmail/passwords
• 992[11:21:00] <Fox> and some video conferencing
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• 995[11:21:21] <agio> so is calendar/contacts CalDav?
• 996[11:21:27] <Fox> yep
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• 998[11:21:49] <shtrb> contacts ->can use ldap as a backened , webmail -> dovcot + roundcube etc
• 999[11:21:49] <jelly> caldav is calendar, carddav is contacts protocol
• 1000[11:21:51] <Fox> I use it to store all my contacts/meetings with my phone
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• 1002[11:22:18] <shtrb> the onecloud caldav also integrate nicly with android :)
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• 1004[11:22:27] <shtrb> and akonadi
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• 1007[11:23:25] <agio> Fox: so say you get a new mobile device - you connect to nextcloud and pull all your contacts to your new mobile. what app do you store those contacts in on the phone ? and can other apps, e.g. email and phone dialler access those contacts?
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• 1010[11:24:25] <Fox> agio: you can use any app so store your contacts/meetings, I use the default ones, just they are connected to my nextcloud, not to google contact or anything else
• 1011[11:25:24] <Fox> agio: my uses cardav/caldav to connect to my nextcloud, then they are automatically available for any app on the phone that can talk caldav/cardav
• 1012[11:25:38] <Fox> s/my uses/my phone uses/
• 1013[11:27:01] <agio> so you mean there no dedicated app - whose sole purpose is to store contacts? instead each individual app which needs access to contacts will each need to be configured individually to connect to your next cloud server?
• 1014[11:27:18] <Fox> yep
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• 1023[11:33:37] <Fox> agio: you need a caldav/cardav client on your phone anyway, I installed DAVdroid (installed from F-Droid)
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• 1025[11:34:24] <NetTerminalGene> debian buster will come with wayland?
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• 1027[11:34:58] <Fox> NetTerminalGene: better ask on #debian-next I think
• 1028[11:35:02] <Fox> !debian-next
• 1029[11:35:02] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
• 1030[11:35:23] <agio> Fox: oh, so DAVdroid does the communication to nextcloud - and then you point all the apps which need access to contacts (like email, phone dialler, text messages etc) to DAVdroid?
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• 1032[11:36:00] <Fox> that's it
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• 1035[11:36:46] <agio> and DAVdroid is contacts + calendar?
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• 1039[11:38:22] <agio> ah, I see an option in my calendar settings "CALDAV sync"...
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• 1042[11:40:04] <jolt> Hey guys! My sa-update returns error for not finding sought.rules.yerp.org. The command is " sa-update --gpgkey 6C6191E3 --channel sought.rules.yerp.org --channel updates.spamassassin.org" (as output from cron), but I can't find how the heck those channels are configured!
• 1043[11:40:18] <Fox> agio: replaced-url
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• 1045[11:40:49] <jolt> I want to just have --channel updates.spamassassin.org in there, to remove yerp.org. I have grep'ed everywhere but can't find how it's configured
• 1046[11:40:58] <agio> Fox: thanks, I'll give it a read :)
• 1047[11:40:59] <kfunk> is lisandro@debian.org in here?
• 1048[11:41:55] <kfunk> nvm
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• 1053[11:45:30] <shtrb> kfunk , visit oftc
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• 1072[11:53:27] <tharkun> Good $DAY I want to mainatin a certaint package What irc channel is the appropiate one to log into so I have a clear view of what is expected?
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• 1093[12:05:13] <oo_miguel> Is this uefi partition obligatory? (I dualboot with win10)
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• 1104[12:12:08] <FinalX> don't know if this already came by, but .. replaced-url
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• 1108[12:14:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1405
• 1109[12:14:49] <colo-work> did anyone expect it to? :)
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• 1111[12:16:23] <shtrb> oo_miguel, only if you intend to windows later and you do not have legacy boot
• 1112[12:16:42] <shtrb> *to use windows
• 1113[12:17:11] <oo_miguel> I have to admit that I intend to start win10 once in a while (is this what you mean?)
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• 1119[12:23:56] <shtrb> yes
• 1120[12:24:01] <Ede|Popede> seems CPUs have reached a level of complexity which can't be handled any more, at least for the moment.
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• 1123[12:24:20] <shtrb> if win10 was installed in EUFI mode only, if it was installed yet there is no problem
• 1124[12:24:43] *** Joins: pax (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
• 1125[12:24:44] <shtrb> *UEFI
• 1126[12:24:46] <Katnip> windows is evil
• 1127[12:25:08] <shtrb> it's irrelevent to windows, UEFI is evil
• 1128[12:25:24] <Katnip> same
• 1129[12:25:30] <shtrb> and the new bios support for linux and windows idea is evil by design
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• 1132[12:26:07] <Katnip> i had to use legacy
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• 1136[12:26:50] <enoq> is there a reason why spamassassin is not automatically enabled upon install=
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• 1138[12:27:26] <oo_miguel> shtrb: I am reinstalling EVERYHTING From scratch (win and debian)
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• 1141[12:28:11] <shtrb> oo_miguel, in such case verify with your bios and you could continue using it
• 1142[12:28:50] <shtrb> *continue using legacy and MBR boot
• 1143[12:29:05] <shtrb> TPM will not work (if you care about it)
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• 1145[12:29:40] <oo_miguel> shtrb: so I disable uefi on my motherboard alltogether *Before* installing win and deb, right?
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• 1147[12:31:54] <oo_miguel> Ill give it a try, thank you shtrb!
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• 1149[12:33:03] <shtrb> You can't technically "disable" UEFI you can select boot mode and what is supported (I think you need to select CSM as first and boot mode in legacy or both depending on your mode)
• 1150[12:33:45] <shtrb> do not enable linux support in bios , it can brick your pc
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• 1152[12:34:26] <shtrb> oo_miguel, did you see the warning about Linux suppotr ?
• 1153[12:35:03] <oo_miguel> oh
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• 1155[12:35:30] <shtrb> oo_miguel, that is for new workstations replaced-url
• 1156[12:35:31] <oo_miguel> shtrb: like "really brick" ?
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• 1158[12:36:44] <shtrb> oo_miguel, visit the link above it was one of the first results I got
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• 1161[12:38:30] <shtrb> The Lenovo cases sound very similar to the Samsung bricking if you boot linux ( replaced-url
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• 1163[12:38:50] <shtrb> the more complex a software is the more bugs it can have
• 1164[12:38:52] <oo_miguel> shtrb: sounds like a BUG to me, or is this intended?
• 1165[12:39:08] <shtrb> don't have a clue
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• 1168[12:40:08] <oo_miguel> thanks for the warning I will keep this in mind. My settings do not have any Linux mode as far as i remember
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• 1170[12:41:05] <shtrb> If you do manage to brick , remove the internal battery if you are allowed (that the offical workaround)
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• 1177[12:44:02] <oo_miguel> allright, thank you
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• 1188[12:50:48] <Ede|Popede> is this coincidence that both links are about notebooks?
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• 1190[12:51:17] <shtrb> could be because of my search history
• 1191[12:51:28] <purpleunicorn> Should I start with Ubuntu or does it not matter what you use first
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• 1193[12:51:44] <shtrb> !ubuntu
• 1194[12:51:45] <dpkg> Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian. Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu on chat.freenode.net instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian> and <ubuntuirc>.
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• 1197[12:52:57] <Ede|Popede> seems legit. the 2nd link has something interresting: »It was most likely tested with Windows only and found to work, but thorough testing with other operating systems doesn’t appear to have been a priority—or perhaps a consideration at all.«
• 1198[12:53:00] <jelly> purpleunicorn: you can try whatever you like to try, but Ubuntu is more forgiving of particular driver and hardware needs
• 1199[12:53:39] <Ede|Popede> i'd call this ignorance at best which is embarrassing for such a company.
• 1200[12:53:43] <purpleunicorn> jelly: okay. What about Linux mint?
• 1201[12:54:03] <rabbitear_sdf> what hardware?
• 1202[12:55:05] <Ede|Popede> purpleunicorn: i started with yggdrasil in the days when their installer looked much like debian's aptitude :)
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• 1205[12:56:25] <jelly> purpleunicorn: I do not know anything about Mint
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• 1208[12:57:35] <purpleunicorn> Ede|Popede: I’ve never heard of that. I’ll look into it, thanks.
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• 1212[12:57:49] <rabbitear_sdf> Mint is ubuntu/debian with non-free put on by default, jelly
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• 1214[12:58:02] <rabbitear_sdf> they did some desktop DE whatever work too
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• 1218[12:59:18] <purpleunicorn> I heard trying to install Debian on a chrome book is hard and hasn’t been successful
• 1219[12:59:45] <Ede|Popede> purpleunicorn: better don't. it's history by now. it was just to show you that you don't have to start with something which usually is considered to be "easy use"
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• 1221[13:00:14] <purpleunicorn> Is a windows laptop better to have or should I just get a chrome book. I’m trying to get rid of the original OS and add a Linux distro
• 1222[13:00:17] <Ede|Popede> and i have to correct myseld anyway. it was "Slackware Linux 3.1.0 (Slackware96)" as the README says
• 1223[13:00:22] <jelly> purpleunicorn: in general, it's better to investigate hardware for Linux support before buying it, than buying hardware first and then checking which, if any, Linux distro works well on it
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• 1226[13:00:37] <purpleunicorn> Ede|Popede: oh okay
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• 1228[13:00:39] * luna_ got a birthday present from Canonical
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• 1231[13:00:58] <purpleunicorn> jelly: hence why I haven’t bought anything yet
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• 1243[13:05:49] <Ede|Popede> i'd even walk in into a shop with an usb hd with a preinstalled debian, only without all these fancy boot options which could cause trouble (had tried to install mint some years back, didn't boot from HD, but had no problems from the live system)
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• 1280[13:28:21] <j0seph> Heya all. Just installed Debian Stable. Nice to meet you all.
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• 1282[13:31:38] <Ede|Popede> heya j0seph. welcome to the club.
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• 1295[13:39:42] <HaMsTeRs> Guys, I own a Surface Pro. is it possible to install a selfsigned key into UEFI for Secure Boot a custom kernel?
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• 1369[14:25:08] <Ede|Popede> is there no "check only" option for fsck? i just want to loop over the partitions of the disk, which it refuses because terminal.
• 1370[14:27:39] <Ede|Popede> hm, trying with -n
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• 1394[14:41:50] <discovered1> "usermod -aG sudo username" is not correct command to add a usr to sudo?
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• 1401[14:43:11] <jelly> discovered1: it is.
• 1402[14:43:15] <jelly> correct.
• 1403[14:43:54] <shtrb> discovered1, you need to relogin (*)
• 1404[14:44:00] <jelly> discovered1: user needs to log off and log on again for group memberships to be applies
• 1405[14:44:12] <discovered1> O i see....
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• 1407[14:44:14] <discovered1> :)
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• 1413[14:46:04] <discovered1> also i can add with "adduser discovered sudo" ..?
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• 1415[14:47:11] <greycat> that changes the /etc/group file which will take effect the next time "discovered" logs in
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• 1423[14:50:20] <jelly> diamondman: those two commands are equivalent, yes
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• 1436[14:56:15] <strk> how do I ask `apt` to install from a non-default repo ?
• 1437[14:56:31] <greycat> -t
• 1438[14:56:32] <strk> I mean, "apt policy" tells me there are versions 2.3.2 and 2.0.3 available
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• 1440[14:56:50] <strk> thanks greycat , that helped :)
• 1441[14:56:51] <greycat> as in, apt-get -t stretch-backports foopkg
• 1442[14:57:03] <strk> sudo apt install -t stretch-backports musescore # bingo
• 1443[14:57:14] <greycat> !stretch-backports
• 1444[14:57:14] <dpkg> Some packages intended for Buster (Debian 10) but recompiled for use with Stretch (Debian 9) can be found in the stretch-backports repository. See replaced-url
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• 1446[14:57:21] <greycat> You should read the instructions again. ^^
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• 1448[14:57:36] <strk> or, once :)
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• 1463[15:06:04] <samba35> if i add some patch to kernel do i have to recompile kernel ?
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• 1465[15:06:29] <greycat> someone has to compile it
• 1466[15:06:44] <samba35> :)
• 1467[15:06:52] <samba35> ok thanks
• 1468[15:07:08] <shtrb> and to install it to see the patch in active
• 1469[15:07:19] <samba35> how ?
• 1470[15:07:34] <greycat> compile, install, and reboot. all 3 steps are mandatory in order for a source code patch to the kernel to have any effect.
• 1471[15:07:34] <shtrb> dpkg -i file.deb
• 1472[15:07:34] * dpkg removes a speen from shtrb and replaces it with file.deb
• 1473[15:07:47] <greycat> speen?
• 1474[15:08:30] <greycat> dpkg, cmd: -i (.*?) =~ s/speen/spleen/
• 1475[15:08:30] <dpkg> greycat: OK
• 1476[15:08:32] <shtrb> maybe it meant a splean
• 1477[15:08:38] <shtrb> *spleen
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• 1484[15:13:41] <samba35> to kernel compile 1s i have make run make and make install right ?
• 1485[15:14:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1425
• 1486[15:14:04] <greycat> !kernel handbook
• 1487[15:14:05] <dpkg> The Debian Linux Kernel Handbook replaced-url
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• 1503[15:26:22] <Ede|Popede> how long does this task take? maybe rebuilding the original kernel vs. one with lots of custom settings. i remember i did it years back with some tcl/tk tool with no more docs than there were on the disk, and it needed a horrible amount of time.
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• 1520[15:39:16] <LtL> Ede|Popede: how fast is your cpu? it's going to take awhile, can't say how long i haven't done it since the nineties.
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• 1522[15:39:51] <greycat> CPU won't be the sole variable, either. Storage speed is a huge factor.
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• 1524[15:40:16] <tarzeau> linux kernel builds can be as fast as less than 10 minutes
• 1525[15:40:16] <LtL> of course
• 1526[15:40:24] <tarzeau> there's other c++ software that can take HOURS!
• 1527[15:40:32] <Ede|Popede> LtL: i don't really care about buildimg time, can run overnight. but i was getting more and more desparated with even more questions coming up with no end :(
• 1528[15:40:34] <greycat> "other" is the wrong word there.
• 1529[15:40:52] <tarzeau> different?
• 1530[15:41:01] <LtL> Ede|Popede: nod, been there :)
• 1531[15:41:09] <tarzeau> ok the linux source is not made of c++ but mainly c
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• 1533[15:41:21] <greycat> Linux is emphatically and proudly C.
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• 1536[15:42:04] <LtL> Ede|Popede: i have my syslog spammed with DHCPREQUESTS again, finally filtered them with rsyslog.conf. Strange bug it is.
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• 1538[15:42:18] <Ede|Popede> and then i remember i said "no" to experimental modules. just to find out that one i'd need or at least want, was one of them. with no chance to get back. *sigh*
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• 1540[15:42:51] <Ede|Popede> LtL: so removing the files didn't help?
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• 1545[15:44:13] <LtL> Ede|Popede: it worked temporarily, i have 'no' lease files now and onlt 3 dhcpack replies in the last 24hrs. connectivity is ok tho'
• 1546[15:44:29] <Ede|Popede> dammit. seems the HD adapter is in a bad mood again :|
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• 1551[15:46:15] <Ede|Popede> LtL: that's my situation too. ACK is ok, REQUESTs to the 10.* IP are ignored (and repeated all the time), after some time one goes to broadcast and gets an instant ACK. immediately followed by a new flood of REQ to the 10.* IP
• 1552[15:46:56] <Ede|Popede> no idea if dhclient is ignoring something somewhere or my provider isn't able to set up proper DHCP
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• 1554[15:47:22] <LtL> Ede|Popede: the only 'apparent' difference between the box getting spammed and the laptop which does not is the spammed one has a re-named interface (wlp3So and wlan0) the latter on the laptop.
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• 1556[15:47:27] <greycat> If you want to be sure of that, you can use tcpdump or an equivalent to capture the packets and see what's happening.
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• 1559[15:48:24] <LtL> good idea, will do.
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• 1575[15:58:00] <RagingBuffalo> Hello all!
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• 1578[15:58:16] <RagingBuffalo> I'm new here, I have debian jessie but it does not have systemctl
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• 1580[15:58:29] <RagingBuffalo> so I am confused on how to enable "apache2" to start the server on boot
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• 1582[15:58:36] <RagingBuffalo> No need to say I googled for 30min in vain
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• 1586[15:59:16] <baros> hi, why should I upgrade to debian 9 (currently on 8.11)
• 1587[15:59:20] <Fox> RagingBuffalo: are you stuck on Jessie or do you plan to upgrade to stretch ?
• 1588[15:59:29] <Tom-_> try service apache2 start
• 1589[15:59:34] <RagingBuffalo> oh im stuck, I dont have choice to update
• 1590[15:59:54] <RagingBuffalo> apache is currently started and running, I tested using replaced-url
• 1591[15:59:54] <Tom-_> it should start automatically on boot on any init system
• 1592[16:00:12] <baros> can I safely stick to debian 8 ? what benefit of upgrading to 9?
• 1593[16:00:16] *** Quits: blackmajic (~black@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
• 1594[16:00:16] <Tom-_> do you get any error messages on startup?
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• 1596[16:00:17] <Fox> RagingBuffalo: update-rc.d -n apache2 defaults
• 1597[16:00:21] <RagingBuffalo> Hm apparently it's specifically not going to start on boot, I'm asked to ensure it works after boot :D
• 1598[16:00:25] <greycat> RagingBuffalo: jessie comes with systemd by default, but it's possible that someone has removed it on your particular system. Try "ls -ld /sbin/init" to see which init system you are using.
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• 1601[16:01:11] <RagingBuffalo> ls -ld /sbin/init
• 1602[16:01:12] <RagingBuffalo> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 40648 Apr 6 2015 /sbin/init
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• 1604[16:01:21] <baros> <Fox> hi, can I safely stick to debian 8 ? what benefit of upgrading to 9?
• 1605[16:01:27] <greycat> OK, you're not using systemd. You're using sysvinit.
• 1606[16:01:43] <RagingBuffalo> hm,sysvinit, thanks I'm going to research :)
• 1607[16:01:45] <Tom-_> RagingBuffalo, then i think you should try what Fox said about update-rc.d
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• 1610[16:02:17] <greycat> RagingBuffalo: so you would use commands like "/etc/init.d/apache2 stop" or "service apache2 stop" instead of the systemd commands.
• 1611[16:02:18] <Ede|Popede> is the list of used runlevels in the init file still a thing?
• 1612[16:02:37] <greycat> For a sysvinit user, I would imagine they matter.
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• 1614[16:02:49] <baros> what is wiser for a server? stick to jessie or upgrade to stretch ?
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• 1617[16:02:56] <baros> web server**
• 1618[16:03:02] <RagingBuffalo> it does not even have chkconfig
• 1619[16:03:03] <greycat> baros: obviously you want to upgrade in order to continue receiving support
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• 1621[16:03:26] <greycat> RagingBuffalo: did you *choose* sysvinit for this system, or did you inherit in this way?
• 1622[16:03:37] <baros> greycat> but debian 8 isn't end of life yet right?
• 1623[16:03:42] <greycat> !jessie
• 1624[16:03:43] <dpkg> Jessie is the codename for the current <oldstable> release, Debian 8, released on 2015-04-25: replaced-url
• 1625[16:03:43] <RagingBuffalo> I inherit, it's an assignment :D
• 1626[16:03:54] <greycat> Jessie is on LTS right now.
• 1627[16:04:02] <RagingBuffalo> I'm more familiar with Raspbian and RedHat/Centos
• 1628[16:04:16] <RagingBuffalo> Thanks FOX, I was trying to check first to see if it's enabled
• 1629[16:04:29] <RagingBuffalo> I used to know "chkconfig apache2" but iut's not there either
• 1630[16:04:49] *** Quits: eugenio (92305ec2@replaced-ip) (Quit: Page closed)
• 1631[16:04:53] <RagingBuffalo> ok I installed chkconfig
• 1632[16:05:03] <RagingBuffalo> and it claims its on.... so it should already be enabled...
• 1633[16:05:04] <RagingBuffalo> weird
• 1634[16:05:05] *** Quits: diogenes_ (~diogenes_@replaced-ip) (Quit: vergissmeinnicht)
• 1635[16:05:11] <baros> <greycat> long term support? cool I have no reason to look for more workload then I guess?
• 1636[16:05:36] <greycat> LTS means there is only limited security support (mostly for server packages), and this too will end at some point.
• 1637[16:05:39] <greycat> !jessie-lts
• 1638[16:05:40] <dpkg> Security support for Debian 8 "Jessie" from the Debian Security Team ended on 2018-05-17. The amd64, i386, armel and armhf architectures will receive additional long term support (<LTS>) via <jessie/updates> until around 2020 for a 5 year lifetime total. See replaced-url
• 1639[16:05:44] <baros> that means that there will be auto matic security fixes right?
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• 1641[16:06:09] <greycat> For a time. It's better to upgrade if you can.
• 1642[16:06:32] <baros> greycat> upgrading means a lot of work sadly :(
• 1643[16:06:37] <baros> and money
• 1644[16:07:00] <baros> if the OS will receive security fixes then it should be good enough for now
• 1645[16:07:20] <baros> those fixes are automatic with unattended upgrades iirc
• 1646[16:08:02] <baros> maybe I should configure it to receive mail notices of fixes though...
• 1647[16:08:18] <baros> the main issue I have with debian 9 is php5 is gone
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• 1649[16:08:26] <Ede|Popede> great... when umount hands because of 'usb 1-4: reset high-speed USB device number 35 using ehci-pci' -.-
• 1650[16:08:27] *** Quits: oish_ (~charlie@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 1651[16:08:37] <baros> and my webcode is not ready for this
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• 1655[16:08:46] <greycat> baros: Ah, that would be an important thing, yes.
• 1656[16:09:11] <greycat> Technically you *can* continue using jessie's PHP5 on a system that has been upgraded to stretch, but it's not recommended long term.
• 1657[16:09:14] <RagingBuffalo> Thanks for the help all, it seems that since chckconfig shown me it's enabled (apache2), I don't need to check anything else for now
• 1658[16:09:39] *** Quits: BeerHall (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Quit: BeerHall)
• 1659[16:09:41] <baros> <greycat> noted, thank you :)
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• 1662[16:10:35] <baros> eer I have a general support request about debian Good Sirs, is there a package to install to supportfilenames in foreign languages?
• 1663[16:10:49] <baros> chinese filenames tend to crash my scripts
• 1664[16:10:57] <colo-work> scripts written in what?
• 1665[16:11:04] <baros> I think this is a core issue in debian
• 1666[16:11:05] <colo-work> filenames are just sequences of bytes on Linux
• 1667[16:11:15] <BCMM> baros: uh, you might want to consider fixing that webcode sooner rather than later. upstream security support for php5.6 ends this year.
• 1668[16:11:15] <baros> colo-work> php
• 1669[16:11:28] *** Quits: devbaka (~devbaka@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
• 1670[16:11:38] <colo-work> baros, and how exactly does it fail, and under which conditions?
• 1671[16:11:44] <baros> <BCMM> omg no D:
• 1672[16:11:51] <baros> <BCMM> thanks for letting me know
• 1673[16:11:58] <baros> :(
• 1674[16:11:58] <BCMM> replaced-url
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• 1676[16:12:15] <BCMM> baros: debian removed it for a reason, and other sane distro will have done the same.
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• 1678[16:12:36] <baros> BCMM> noted, thank you
• 1679[16:13:08] <Ede|Popede> hmpf... C-c and C-z both have no effect on umount...
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• 1682[16:13:44] <greycat> baros: The underlying operating system (kernel, file systems) do not care about what kind of character encoding you use in file names. Applications that crash when given filenames with unexpected characters will need to be addressed individually.
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• 1685[16:14:07] <BCMM> Ede|Popede: if umount doesn't exist almost instantly, it's going to be waiting on i/o
• 1686[16:14:16] <BCMM> Ede|Popede: in which state, even kill -9 won't touch it
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• 1688[16:14:42] <baros> BCMM> what exaclt y means security suupport in php 5.6
• 1689[16:14:51] <BCMM> baros: see replaced-url
• 1690[16:14:53] *** Quits: BlueByte_ (~walther@replaced-ip) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
• 1691[16:14:59] <Ede|Popede> BCMM: yea, some time ago i had to wait for half an hour or so -.-
• 1692[16:15:00] <baros> does it mean no more security patches art all?
• 1693[16:15:25] <BCMM> baros: basically, if, in two month's time, a security problems were to be discovered in php5, the php project will not do anything about it
• 1694[16:15:33] <baros> BCMM> ok I see
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• 1696[16:15:39] <baros> basically end of life :(
• 1697[16:15:47] <Fox> baros: you can first move to stretch installing sury php 5.6 packages and once you upgraded you do the move to php 7.2/7.3
• 1698[16:16:07] <BCMM> baros: exactly end-of-life
• 1699[16:16:10] <greycat> stretch has PHP 7.0, not 7.2 or 7.3
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• 1702[16:17:17] <baros> <greycat> and php 7.1 ?
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• 1704[16:17:25] <Fox> using sury packages you have 7.2/7.3
• 1705[16:17:26] <greycat> ,v php-fpm
• 1706[16:17:27] <judd> Package: php-fpm on amd64 -- stretch: 1:7.0+49; buster: 1:7.2+62; sid: 2:7.3+68
• 1707[16:17:36] <greycat> Why the fuck would you use sury?
• 1708[16:17:52] <bites> by the way, if you upgrade to stretch the php5 packages don't get removed.
• 1709[16:17:55] <BCMM> greycat: gulp, that has 16 days of support left... are they going to bump it on EOL day, like they did with firefox 52esr?
• 1710[16:18:04] <baros> php 7.0 will be dropped even sooner than php 5.6
• 1711[16:18:07] *** Quits: gryffus (~gryffus@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 1712[16:18:09] <Fox> when I first installed nextcloud, for example, it would not work with 7.0
• 1713[16:18:28] *** Quits: gummy (~root@replaced-ip) (Quit: Lost terminal)
• 1714[16:18:29] <greycat> Sounds like an excellent reason to stop using PHP altogether, to me.
• 1715[16:18:36] <Ede|Popede> "reset high-speed USB device number 35 using ehci-pci" <-- any idea how to get rid of such a disk without hard unplugging? not that i'd care much, fsck always did a good job so far...
• 1716[16:18:37] <baros> what?
• 1717[16:18:38] <greycat> As if you need more of them.
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• 1719[16:18:56] <Fox> I fully agree with that, do you have any alternative to nextcloud/owncloud without php ? :)
• 1720[16:18:59] <baros> stop using PHP are you serious?
• 1721[16:19:05] <baros> web = 99% php
• 1722[16:19:10] <bites> well, you pick the tools for the applications you run, not the other way around.
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• 1726[16:20:00] * rant thinks . o O ( baros = 99% exaggeration / uniformed )
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• 1728[16:20:11] <baros> looking at this php version support made me worried...
• 1729[16:20:14] <Ede|Popede> php = "Personal(!) HomePage tools". a blown up midget. the problem is the software still sticking to this mess
• 1730[16:20:25] <baros> what am i going to do now? :(
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• 1737[16:23:21] <BCMM> baros: i'd wait 17 days, and see what debian stable does when 7.0 is eol
• 1738[16:23:37] <greycat> It is an excellent question. I don't know the answer.
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• 1740[16:23:57] <BCMM> baros: they don't like shipping new versions of stuff in stable - they kept firefox at esr52 until, i think, literally the day support ended
• 1741[16:24:55] <bites> it's probably going to be sury for me.
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• 1758[16:35:47] <Ede|Popede> is this list correct? > OHCI = 1.0 | UHCI = 1.1 | EHCI = 2.0 | XHCI = 3.0
• 1759[16:36:01] *** Joins: Haudegen (~quassel@replaced-ip)
• 1760[16:37:08] <BCMM> Ede|Popede: for clarity, what exactly are the numbers supposed to mean?
• 1761[16:37:22] <greycat> I think he's asking about USB versions...?
• 1762[16:37:38] <Ede|Popede> BCMM: usb level. because of "reset full-speed USB device number 5 using ohci-pci" vs. "new high-speed USB device number 36 using ehci-pci"
• 1763[16:37:46] <BCMM> Ede|Popede: ochi and uhci both support 1.1, i think
• 1764[16:37:54] <Ede|Popede> no idea why it was on ohci then...
• 1765[16:38:31] <somiaj> I think it close enough. I thought ohci and uhci were different standards of usb1 (so unsure on the 1.0 vs 1.1 part), rest seems fine.
• 1766[16:38:46] <somiaj> It might be what mobo you are actually using for usb1
• 1767[16:38:52] <BCMM> i'm just getting this from wikipedia, but uhci is the intel interface which uses kinda lame hardware and does everything in the driver, i think
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• 1769[16:39:13] <Ede|Popede> usually i get ehci, if not, it is strange to me (not that i'd remember which version it is or what speed)
• 1770[16:39:29] <BCMM> and ohci is the standard interface for "real" usb controller that do their own work
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• 1772[16:39:39] <somiaj> yea, it will be old hardware that only supports usb1 and one of the two drivers for it.
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• 1778[16:41:09] <Ede|Popede> BCMM this one replaced-url
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• 1780[16:41:40] * Ede|Popede recommends `inxi` at this occasion
• 1781[16:41:45] <baros> will you add php7.1 to stretch?
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• 1784[16:42:12] <baros> 7.0 is dead in 15 days, and I don't want to hear about 7.2 for now
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• 1786[16:42:52] <somiaj> baros: stretch is a frozen system, as such the answer is most likely no.
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• 1788[16:43:11] <baros> somiaj why is frozen? :(
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• 1790[16:43:39] <somiaj> Now if/when php7.0 has an security issue, the security team may decide that 7.1 is the better option than backporting the patch to 7.0, but debian policy would prefer security patches get backported to the stretch version.
• 1791[16:43:43] <greycat> Frozen is technically the wrong word. It's released. Stable. Unchanging.
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• 1793[16:43:58] <Ede|Popede> baros: new versions usually bring new problems. testing needs time and if a version is considered good it is kept.
• 1794[16:44:05] <somiaj> baros: because that is how debian release work. Debian release frozen systems (except for security and grave bug fixes -- that is what debian means by stable)
• 1795[16:44:46] <somiaj> though it is becomming more common for debian security to bump version for security fixes (which always has problems for some people, accenting why debian prefers to not do this)
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• 1797[16:45:41] <Ede|Popede> fsck run: real 0m0.735s -- before the replugging it took minutes (2 resets in the meantime)
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• 1799[16:45:43] <greycat> So the official answer is "They won't do anything until a security bug is discovered, at which point a decision will be made."?
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• 1801[16:46:34] <baros> v thank you good sir
• 1802[16:46:42] <baros> @greycat
• 1803[16:46:50] <bites> sury apparently tried to get 7.1 into backports but got refused. maybe that will change now that 7.0 reaches eol.
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• 1805[16:48:33] <bites> though that would be 7.2 now rather than 7.1
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• 1809[16:49:47] <Ede|Popede> does 7.1 or 7.2 get promoted somehow? like i have 52esr with 60esr waiting at the door.
• 1810[16:50:08] <greycat> Firefox is a special case. PHP has not been given special case status (yet).
• 1811[16:50:29] <greycat> .oO(more like "special needs")
• 1812[16:50:31] <somiaj> Ede|Popede: firefox is one of the cases debian security uses the current esr version as security fixes, and so 60esr comes in when 52esr has a security flaw and upstream no longer supports it.
• 1813[16:51:08] <somiaj> outside of webbrowsers, it is more a case by case situation, for example vlc had a version bump in stretch due to security issues (This caused problems for a non-trival number of users, because version bumps do that)
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• 1815[16:51:23] <Ede|Popede> would be a nice thing for php too, lots of (web!) software uses it and it is quite widespread
• 1816[16:51:25] <greycat> Samba has had some version bumps in stable over the years as well. So has bind9.
• 1817[16:51:51] *** Joins: raj_ (~raj@replaced-ip)
• 1818[16:51:57] <Ede|Popede> vlc started as 2.x in stretch? i joined with 9.5, so with 3.0 directly
• 1819[16:51:57] <greycat> You know what else is widespread? Poverty, AIDS, Windows, ....
• 1820[16:52:36] <Ede|Popede> greycat: all things worth getting rid of ASAP, only it may not happen that fast :/
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• 1824[16:53:26] <InvisibleRasta> jelly: hello, i tried doing the same debootstrap on a different machine i have,still btrfs subvolume and i get the same tasksel errors
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• 1826[16:53:40] <InvisibleRasta> jelly: i dont know if u remember from yesterday and the day before
• 1827[16:53:42] <somiaj> Ede|Popede: that is also an argument of why 7.1 shouldn't be used, how many servers hosting websoftware will break due to changing from 7.0 to 7.1. This is something debian stable would like to avoid (but due to security issues, and support from upstream not always possible)
• 1828[16:54:00] <InvisibleRasta> well this problem is on all my pc's so i guess its something wrong with debian
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• 1830[16:54:37] <somiaj> InvisibleRasta: tasksel isn't required, are you wanting to track down this issue, and help fix it, or get your machine working. Why not just use apt install and meta packages over taskel?
• 1831[16:54:41] <rant> heh. I like how you put "Windows" in there with Poverty and AIDS :P
• 1832[16:54:56] <bites> debian probably wouldn't remove the php7.0 packages. that would be madness. but they are conveniently named and so can coexist.
• 1833[16:55:00] <Ede|Popede> somiaj: that's the problem with all these compatibilities, you change one stone and the rest of the dominoes will start to fall
• 1834[16:55:08] <jelly> InvisibleRasta: did you try a different mirror perhaps?
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• 1836[16:55:29] <InvisibleRasta> jelly: no just the default
• 1837[16:55:49] <rant> InvisibleRasta: what wasnt made clear is, there are metapackages that start with task- which do the same thing
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• 1845[16:58:00] <jelly> InvisibleRasta: try, dunno, replaced-url
• 1846[16:58:08] <Ede|Popede> somiaj: some years ago i wanted to test out the new version of mediawiki and the state-of-the-art method of delivering php (php-fpm). was quite some work to get all the compatible versions into wheezy(iirc)
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• 1854[17:02:21] <jelly> InvisibleRasta: just brought up an amd64 stretch chroot, started tasksel, picked xfce, it's working. │ Retrieving file 197 of 1046 │
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• 1856[17:02:35] <annadane> |
• 1857[17:03:01] <greycat> He keeps mentioning btrfs. I have no idea whether that's relevant or not, but maybe it breaks debootstrap somehow?
• 1858[17:03:04] <jelly> my terminal is that wide yes
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• 1860[17:03:34] <rant> I wouldnt find that surprising one time I tried btrfs it broke grub
• 1861[17:03:38] <jelly> greycat: they had bz2 errors and gpg errors shown yesterday so that was my first guess
• 1862[17:04:00] <jelly> greycat: but moving to ext4 did not fix the gpg (well, apt-key) errors
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• 1864[17:04:18] <greycat> ah, that explains the 'try another mirror'
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• 1866[17:04:54] <jelly> it's weird gpg errors would happen only once inside chroot, debootstrap does verification as well
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• 1887[17:13:14] <murii> Hi, I have a second monitor with FHD resolution but it won't let me go pass 1024x768 using Display Settings program, how can I force it using the CLI?
• 1888[17:13:45] <rant> murii: you might want to put a pin in that and figure out why first
• 1889[17:13:48] *** Joins: bozza (~bozza@replaced-ip)
• 1890[17:14:18] <rant> murii: look at the Xorg log and dmesg, you probably have an issue with your display driver
• 1891[17:14:23] <murii> I had the same problem in LUbuntu but I found a command and let me use the FHD option, I forogt it tho
• 1892[17:14:30] <ctcx> In an external USB hdd with NTFS partition I have a directory that I cannot remove at all. I try rm -r and rmdir --ignore-fail-on-non-empty, and I just get "cannot remove name_folder: directory not empty"
• 1893[17:14:38] <ctcx> Nor I can move it anywhere else.
• 1894[17:14:51] *** Joins: bozza_ (~bozza@replaced-ip)
• 1895[17:15:00] <jelly> murii: that usually means the right drivers for your GPU card are not loaded
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• 1897[17:15:32] <murii> jelly: oh
• 1898[17:15:32] <rant> murii: well xrandr would be the kinda tool to do things with displays but it wont do anything it cant which is why you should investigae the why first
• 1899[17:15:39] <jelly> it's possible but less common that it's really the monitor that isn't sending right info about supported resolutions
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• 1902[17:16:14] <jelly> in that case adding a "mode", a definition for a particular resolution config via xrandr can help
• 1903[17:16:20] <InvisibleRasta> jelly: so your debootstrap worked?
• 1904[17:16:25] <jelly> InvisibleRasta: yes
• 1905[17:16:28] <bites> InvisibleRasta: is that debootstrap from the arch community repository or extracted from the debian .deb?
• 1906[17:16:31] <InvisibleRasta> would you mind sharing with me the commands u ran?
• 1907[17:16:34] <murii> jelly: I shall do that then
• 1908[17:16:55] <InvisibleRasta> jelly: today its debootstrap from gentoo main repository
• 1909[17:16:58] <rant> ctcx: you are at risk of possible filesystem damage if you continue to try do this with reverse engineered drivers.. but you should probably fsck, preferably with windows
• 1910[17:17:13] <InvisibleRasta> jelly: dev-util/debootstrap 1.0.89
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• 1912[17:18:02] <ctcx> Thing is, I tried first in Windows and got exactly same result.
• 1913[17:18:08] <ctcx> Which is why I tried in Linux
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• 1915[17:18:21] <rant> did you try after checking the filesystem?
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• 1917[17:18:48] <jelly> InvisibleRasta: well, apt failed half the way thru configuration of packages for some reason with > tasksel: apt-get failed (100), but downloaded everything and now a "dpkg --configure -a" is fixing the rest
• 1918[17:19:13] <rant> ctcx: furthermore do you have any idea WHICH version of windows formatted this drive.. many new disks these days are formatted for Win10 which has different features than older versions of windows or linux support
• 1919[17:19:48] <jelly> E: Can not write log (Is /dev/pts mounted?) - posix_openpt (19: No such device) # apparently tasksel expects some things
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• 1926[17:20:36] <greycat> probably needs the bind mounts for /dev and ... whatever the others are
• 1927[17:20:37] <greycat> !chroot
• 1928[17:20:38] <dpkg> To chroot into your Debian system boot to your Debian install disk/live CD, switch to the other console (Alt-F2). Mount your root filesystem with "mount -t ext2 /dev/whatever /target" and make /dev, /proc and /sys usable with "mount --rbind --make-rslave /dev /target/dev ; mount -t proc none /target/proc ; mount -t sysfs none /target/sys". You can then chroot into the system with "chroot /target".
• 1929[17:20:44] <greycat> dev, proc and sys
• 1930[17:21:35] <bites> it usually doesn't. not for tasksel at least.
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• 1932[17:21:49] <InvisibleRasta> jelly: is this command correct? debootstrap --arch amd64 /mnt/debian replaced-url
• 1933[17:23:05] <bites> you are missing the release after --arch amd64
• 1934[17:23:19] <bites> stable or stretch presumably.
• 1935[17:23:56] <InvisibleRasta> ok so i ran debootstrap --arch amd64 stretch /mnt/debian replaced-url
• 1936[17:24:07] <smhar> greetings
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• 1945[17:26:09] <smhar> I want to set up a local LAMP for learning web development. Which is better: install MySQL and Apache directly ad just turn them ON/OFF whenever needed? or Install the 'whole' LAMP thing in Virtualbox?
• 1946[17:26:20] <jelly> InvisibleRasta: that seems okay
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• 1950[17:26:39] <greycat> smhar: I don't really see any reason to turn them off. Just leave them running.
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• 1952[17:27:27] <smhar> I don't need Apache and MySQL running if I am not developing, they will take up memory with no use
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• 1956[17:28:18] <InvisibleRasta> jelly: what shuld be the next correct step ?
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• 1959[17:28:35] <ctcx> rant: I think the external hdd was formatted in a Win7 pc. I tried deleting folder on an old laptop yet with Win10, and on a recent Linux box.
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• 1961[17:30:34] <rant> idk what to tell you other than the fact it obviously sounds like a filesystem error and I asked like 3 times if you did a filesystem check and every time you avoided the question
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• 1964[17:31:37] <discovered> whatever command im giving getting error: ERROR: ld.so: object '/usr/lib/libproxychains.so.3' from LD_PRELOAD cannot be preloaded (cannot open shared object file): ignored
• 1965[17:32:07] *** Quits: pax (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 1966[17:33:06] <greycat> Sounds like you have set an LD_PRELOAD environment variable, and it's causing you problems. I would suggest you investigate why you did this.
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• 1968[17:33:21] <greycat> Multiple personality disorder?
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• 1971[17:33:43] <jelly> discovered: which debian release is this?
• 1972[17:34:01] <jelly> libraries shouldn't be in /usr/lib on debian 8 or later
• 1973[17:34:17] <discovered> greycat, how do i remove it from env?
• 1974[17:34:44] <discovered> jelly, debian9
• 1975[17:34:49] <jelly> InvisibleRasta: chroot, see if "apt-get update" works
• 1976[17:34:57] <greycat> unset LD_PRELOAD would be the brute force approach, if you aren't willing to investigate what past-you did to harm present-you
• 1977[17:35:27] <jelly> discovered: what does dpkg -S $(readlink -f /usr/lib/libproxychains.so.3) say?
• 1978[17:35:36] <jelly> oh, it says the same thing. Because.
• 1979[17:35:45] <jelly> *facepalm*
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• 1981[17:36:08] <jelly> do that after unset LD_PRELOAD
• 1982[17:36:28] <discovered> dpkg-query: no path found matching pattern /usr/lib/libproxychains.so.3
• 1983[17:36:50] <jelly> discovered: some admin put that file in there. It is not part of Debian.
• 1984[17:37:16] <InvisibleRasta> jelly: apt-get update worked
• 1985[17:37:21] <jelly> discovered: er, does /usr/lib/libproxychains.so.3 exist at all?
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• 1987[17:37:23] <InvisibleRasta> no error
• 1988[17:37:32] <jelly> InvisibleRasta: good. try tasksel now, then
• 1989[17:37:44] <discovered> no it is not
• 1990[17:38:07] <discovered> oh it is in /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libproxychains.so.3
• 1991[17:38:19] <jelly> InvisibleRasta: maybe have /sys and /proc and /dev bind-mounted before tasksel.
• 1992[17:38:22] <InvisibleRasta> jelly: its retriving files but before the tasksel ncurses gui opened the usual error appeared
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• 1995[17:38:49] <InvisibleRasta> jelly: i did for dir in /dev /dev/pts /proc /sys /run; do sudo mount --bind $dir /mnt/debian/$dir; done
• 1996[17:38:54] <jelly> InvisibleRasta: if you're talking about locale warnings those may be ignored
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• 1999[17:39:10] <jelly> InvisibleRasta: /run is probably not a good idea
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• 2002[17:39:34] <discovered> So the new env would be "export LD_PRELOAD=/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libproxychains.so.3" . Perhaps without proxychains not working well
• 2003[17:39:54] <jelly> discovered: do you WANT proxychains?
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• 2005[17:40:03] <discovered> jelly, yes
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• 2007[17:40:23] <jelly> then yes you absolutely need to use the right path to the library
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• 2016[17:43:34] <discovered> i did it but running proxychains still says, ERROR: ld.so: object 'libproxychains.so.3' from LD_PRELOAD cannot be preloaded (cannot open shared object file): ignored.
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• 2022[17:47:33] <jelly> what do you mean, running proxychains
• 2023[17:47:37] <InvisibleRasta> jelly: those steps were performed properly
• 2024[17:48:11] <InvisibleRasta> i now need anything else berfore rebooting ?
• 2025[17:48:20] <InvisibleRasta> i alredy setup grub
• 2026[17:48:24] *** Quits: mrig (~mrig@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
• 2027[17:48:28] <InvisibleRasta> i need to install kernel tho no?
• 2028[17:48:55] <discovered> jelly, I mean when i do "proxychains google-chrome"
• 2029[17:49:43] <greycat> setting an LD_PRELOAD *and* explicitly typing the command "proxychains" seems kinda redundant to me, even though I've never heard of this thing before today
• 2030[17:49:52] <jelly> discovered: if you're using it that way you do not have to set LD_PRELOAD as well.
• 2031[17:50:02] <jelly> what he said.
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• 2036[17:51:12] <jelly> InvisibleRasta: roughly, you'd need a kernel, a boot loader that understands the filesystem your /boot is on, verify /etc/fstab is right, reboot and hope for the best?
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• 2038[17:52:12] <InvisibleRasta> i alredy got bootlaoder setup on this linux install, fstab edited
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• 2040[17:52:18] <discovered> greycat, I don't know why all working proxylist timing out when i am set it as dynamic_chain. I thought it would be problem with LD_PRELOADED
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• 2043[17:53:32] <InvisibleRasta> i can install with tasksel the kernel?
• 2044[17:54:33] <greycat> no
• 2045[17:54:40] <greycat> use apt or apt-get or aptitude for that
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• 2080[18:11:44] <goose> Is there a way I can "reserve" /dev/sdh-sdm? I plan to eventually add more RAID disks and want to use those identifiers for them, where sdh, sdi, and sdj are currently USB drives
• 2081[18:12:09] <rant> @.@
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• 2084[18:12:37] <goose> It's a data hoarding box. And I use the external drives for backups :^)
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• 2086[18:12:49] <rant> if you are relying on those names for ANYTHING you're doing something VERY wrong
• 2087[18:12:54] <Ede|Popede> goose: the letters are assigned at boot (or connect) time, not predictible
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• 2089[18:13:14] <rant> this is why people use UUID and Labels
• 2090[18:13:21] <goose> I see. Does it assign SATA drives before USB drives?
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• 2092[18:13:38] <goose> My fstab does use UUID, but mdadm I think does not
• 2093[18:13:39] <Ede|Popede> UUID for fstab, vintage drive letters only for me until the next reboot
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• 2100[18:16:46] <InvisibleRasta> wow tasksel is damn slow to install
• 2101[18:17:17] *** Quits: pingfloyd (~pingfloyd@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
• 2102[18:17:29] <greycat> tasksel is just a front-end tool that marks a (potentially) huge number of packages for installing
• 2103[18:17:43] <InvisibleRasta> 1600 packages
• 2104[18:17:51] <greycat> sounds like you chose a desktop environment
• 2105[18:17:54] <annadane> ...you're confusing tasksel with task-foo-desktop
• 2106[18:17:55] *** Joins: Giotis (~Giotis@replaced-ip)
• 2107[18:18:06] <annadane> tasksel is just a package
• 2108[18:18:07] <InvisibleRasta> yeah i choose kde
• 2109[18:19:03] <Ede|Popede> goose: i have a mix... ata slave (dvd as master), sata disk, usb disk. at sudden reboot i usually don't unplug the usb. not sure if the usb didn't happen to be sda sometimes.
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• 2124[18:31:22] <baros> guys just to make sure... php7.2 is not fully suppoorted by stretch right?
• 2125[18:31:44] <baros> replaced-url
• 2126[18:31:45] <baros> =error
• 2127[18:32:13] <baros> so moving from jessie to debian seems risky right now
• 2128[18:32:38] <baros> do you know if you're going to support 7.2 anytime soon?
• 2129[18:32:53] <annadane> from jessie to debian? jessie is debian, oldstable
• 2130[18:33:13] <baros> from jessie to stretch*
• 2131[18:34:51] *** Quits: thiras (~thiras@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
• 2132[18:34:53] *** Quits: asterismo_l (~asterismo@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
• 2133[18:35:12] <baros> good people the situation seems really bad to me
• 2134[18:35:43] *** Quits: hatesec (~chronicle@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
• 2135[18:35:54] <baros> php in both jessie and stretch is going to be end of line really soon
• 2136[18:36:23] <baros> and we don't know if you will update to 7.1 or 7.2 or 7.3
• 2137[18:36:27] <baros> we have no idea
• 2138[18:37:10] <annadane> my understanding is debian will fully support 7.1
• 2139[18:37:16] <annadane> ...right?
• 2140[18:37:19] <annadane> ,v php
• 2141[18:37:20] <judd> Package: php on amd64 -- stretch: 1:7.0+49; buster: 1:7.2+62; sid: 2:7.3+68
• 2142[18:37:22] <baros> how can I upgrade my php5 code to php7 if I don't even know which version I 'll have to use in a couple of months
• 2143[18:37:25] <annadane> er, 7.0
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• 2145[18:38:12] <baros> <judd> buster? what is this? is it even stabel?
• 2146[18:38:20] <baros> stable*
• 2147[18:38:43] <annadane> no, stretch is current stable
• 2148[18:38:48] <annadane> buster will be the next stable
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• 2150[18:39:01] <baros> yeah so it's not helpful
• 2151[18:39:26] <shtrb> bros update at least to 7.0
• 2152[18:39:30] <baros> basically we have no idea which php version we'll run in a couple of months
• 2153[18:39:31] <shtrb> *to at least
• 2154[18:39:46] <shtrb> 5 is dead
• 2155[18:39:49] <annadane> well, wait for an answer here then, i don't know completely, other people know more than i do
• 2156[18:39:51] <bites> 7.0 too.
• 2157[18:39:59] <baros> <shtrb> if I update to 7.0 now I may have to update again in a couple of months
• 2158[18:40:02] <baros> see the issue?
• 2159[18:40:17] <shtrb> baros, LTS wise or bleeding edge ?
• 2160[18:40:21] <Ede|Popede> how safe is it to go with the next as soon as it enters transition freeze? would be in 2 month for buster
• 2161[18:40:27] <baros> stable wise
• 2162[18:40:38] <baros> just stable wise
• 2163[18:41:11] <baros> buster will be stable in 2 months?
• 2164[18:41:23] <bites> nope
• 2165[18:41:26] <Ede|Popede> not yet, but... replaced-url
• 2166[18:41:31] <annadane> no, like july 2019 or so
• 2167[18:41:33] <shtrb> baros, 7.0 end of life is end of 2018 (upstream)
• 2168[18:41:49] <baros> shtrb> I know
• 2169[18:42:00] <baros> and 7.0 is what stretch has
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• 2171[18:42:10] <shtrb> but your code is at 5
• 2172[18:42:12] <bites> 7.0 eol is earlier than 5.6.
• 2173[18:42:15] <baros> let's sum thesituation
• 2174[18:42:43] <baros> I run jessie/php5.6, but 5.6 will be dead in 30 days
• 2175[18:42:47] *** Joins: queip (~queip@replaced-ip)
• 2176[18:42:56] <annadane> from what i've heard stretch - which is current stable - will fully support whatever version php it has, which is apparently 7.0, which is why i invoked judd, to check
• 2177[18:42:59] <baros> if I upgrade to stretch the php7.0 will be dead in 15 days
• 2178[18:43:00] <shtrb> There are less changes between 7 to 7.2 than from 5.6 to 7.2
• 2179[18:43:13] <shtrb> baros, that is upstream EOL not debian EOL
• 2180[18:43:18] <bites> annadane: where did you hear that?
• 2181[18:43:21] <Ede|Popede> and i hope freeze won't take as long as for lenny or which it was some years back
• 2182[18:43:27] <annadane> bites, from other people in this channel
• 2183[18:43:33] <annadane> if i'm wrong please correct me
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• 2185[18:44:12] <baros> what is the point of upgrading to 7.0 now (very costly operation) if I have to pay even more in a couple of months for more upgrading
• 2186[18:44:25] <baros> I would like to upgrade directly to 7.2 or 7.3
• 2187[18:44:29] <baros> but I can't
• 2188[18:44:37] <baros> it's not supported in stable yet
• 2189[18:44:39] <shtrb> baros, there will be less changes between 7.0 and 7.2 than from 5.6 to 7.2
• 2190[18:44:53] <shtrb> *syntax changes
• 2191[18:44:59] <baros> shtrb> maybe but that will still cost money
• 2192[18:45:10] <Ede|Popede> replaced-url
• 2193[18:45:13] <bites> annadane: and where do the patches come from? i believe that when i see it written by the php maintainers.
• 2194[18:45:47] <annadane> well this is why i qualified it with "from i've heard", i'm trying to keep the conversation alive until someone actually chimes in who knows more
• 2195[18:45:55] <annadane> nobody else who has a definitive answer is answering
• 2196[18:45:57] <baros> basically I'm screwed up I have to pay upgrade twice
• 2197[18:46:00] <shtrb> baros, do you need to use specific features of 7.2 ?
• 2198[18:46:14] <baros> nope in fact 5.6 is fine to me
• 2199[18:46:28] <baros> just the security issues are going to be a no-no
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• 2202[18:47:07] <shtrb> but 7 has syntax issues, if buy pay you mean you are talking about about debian upgrade (and product modification just wait) but if you are talking about product change you need to upgrade now
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• 2205[18:47:42] <baros> shtrb> I have to hire a dev whenever I upgrade code basically
• 2206[18:47:46] <baros> I'm no dev
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• 2208[18:48:07] *** Quits: slvmchn (~slv@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 2209[18:48:15] <baros> I upgrade not because of features but to get out of EOL security breaches
• 2210[18:48:17] <shtrb> well , the development has some major leaps (between the 5 and 7 branches if you didn't switch to exception and PDOs)
• 2211[18:48:23] *** Quits: crimastergogo (~crimaster@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2212[18:48:25] <annadane> the thing with stable is either it has full security support for packages in the main repository, or upgrades when that isn't possible
• 2213[18:48:39] <baros> right now I would like to upgrade directly to 7.2 or 7.3 to save upgrade money
• 2214[18:48:43] <annadane> stretch began with vlc 2 and now has 3
• 2215[18:48:47] <baros> but that seems impossible
• 2216[18:48:52] <shtrb> oh and the server odbc link had changed
• 2217[18:48:59] <baros> if I stick to a stable package
• 2218[18:49:48] <baros> it seems like I'll have to pay for upgrade twice:(
• 2219[18:49:52] <rant> there are many efforts to deal with mere security issues
• 2220[18:49:59] <shtrb> baros, before you choose to what you wish to upgrade check all your plugins (some had been deprecated )
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• 2223[18:50:22] <baros> shtrb> you mean packages?
• 2224[18:50:42] <baros> by plugins
• 2225[18:51:18] <shtrb> no, I mean what you can load (like mysql, curl and other magic)
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• 2232[18:53:40] <shtrb> baros, also called as extensions
• 2233[18:54:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1408
• 2234[18:54:08] *** Joins: pax (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
• 2235[18:54:43] <baros> shtrb> I call those packages
• 2236[18:54:45] *** Joins: Tom01 (~tom@replaced-ip)
• 2237[18:54:52] *** Joins: jmarsac (~jmarsac@replaced-ip)
• 2238[18:55:02] <shtrb> a package is installed with something like composer
• 2239[18:55:02] *** Joins: Guest96838 (~ard1t@replaced-ip)
• 2240[18:55:06] <baros> and yes I need curl, imagemagick, mysql and more
• 2241[18:55:34] *** Joins: Zorroness (~albert@replaced-ip)
• 2242[18:55:35] <shtrb> mysql had drastically changed
• 2243[18:55:44] *** Joins: Thedarkb-T60 (~Thedarkb-@replaced-ip)
• 2244[18:55:48] <baros> regardless I would like to know just one thing, what will be the php version in stretch in 2 months from now?
• 2245[18:55:58] <shtrb> I hope for you , that you have used PDO or odbc and not the specific connector functions
• 2246[18:56:14] <greycat> We don't know, baros.
• 2247[18:56:28] <bites> what greycat said.
• 2248[18:56:44] <baros> ;_______________;
• 2249[18:56:49] <baros> *kills self*
• 2250[18:56:55] <shtrb> as greycat and annadane said , we will only know after freeze
• 2251[18:56:56] *** Joins: mtn (~mtn@replaced-ip)
• 2252[18:57:09] <baros> so next june?
• 2253[18:57:14] <baros> right?
• 2254[18:57:17] <greycat> It sounds like you might want to stay on jessie until buster is released, and then consider doing two upgrades at once. But it's your call.
• 2255[18:57:19] <baros> june 2019?
• 2256[18:57:21] *** Joins: Baudelaire (~Baudelair@replaced-ip)
• 2257[18:57:33] <annadane> i didn't say that, but ok
• 2258[18:57:43] <greycat> June is perhaps optimistic, but we don't know that either.
• 2259[18:57:51] <joepublic> nothing wrong with jessie
• 2260[18:58:06] <annadane> well except it's under the LTS initiative now
• 2261[18:58:12] <annadane> not everything gets security fixes
• 2262[18:58:15] <baros> In June 2019 we 'll 96 months past php5 EOL
• 2263[18:58:23] <baros> 6 months*
• 2264[18:58:29] *** Joins: AimHere (~David@replaced-ip)
• 2265[18:58:39] <baros> is it too much a risk to take?
• 2266[18:58:50] *** Joins: zifxify (~zifxify@replaced-ip)
• 2267[18:59:05] <baros> I mean I won't risk the security of thousands users
• 2268[18:59:17] <baros> or I'll end in a jail or something
• 2269[18:59:29] <shtrb> upgrade to 7 today
• 2270[18:59:40] *** Joins: mixfix41 (~swr42@replaced-ip)
• 2271[18:59:48] <shtrb> jail or a dev cost \_()_/
• 2272[18:59:51] <mixfix41> hey you guys still have the application little wizard in your repositories
• 2273[18:59:58] <annadane> ,v littlewizard
• 2274[18:59:59] <judd> Package: littlewizard on amd64 -- jessie: 1.2.2-1; wheezy: 1.2.2-1; buster: 1.2.2-4+b1; sid: 1.2.2-4+b1; stretch: 1.2.2-4+b1
• 2275[19:00:02] <annadane> yep
• 2276[19:00:07] <annadane> !next
• 2277[19:00:07] <dpkg> Another happy customer leaves the building.
• 2278[19:00:20] <baros> shtrb> 7.0 is EOL even sooner
• 2279[19:00:28] <baros> did you miss that part?
• 2280[19:00:49] <mixfix41> running across a gtk2 error Package 'gtk+-2.0', required
• 2281[19:01:00] <mixfix41> but i have gtk2 2.24..
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• 2283[19:01:03] <joepublic> there is probably someone somewhere still running php/fi
• 2284[19:01:05] <shtrb> debian will support 7.0 in stretch (even if upstream will not )
• 2285[19:01:05] <mixfix41> on fedora
• 2286[19:01:18] <bites> shtrb: source?
• 2287[19:01:27] *** Joins: d-lsd (~x@replaced-ip)
• 2288[19:01:28] <baros> <shtrb> you will do the security patches?
• 2289[19:01:37] <annadane> ...fedora is not debian
• 2290[19:02:05] <annadane> shtrb, to be fair, didn't greycat just address this
• 2291[19:02:30] <mixfix41> ,v gtk+2
• 2292[19:02:31] <judd> No package named 'gtk+2' was found in amd64.
• 2293[19:02:35] <mixfix41> ,v gtk2
• 2294[19:02:36] <judd> No package named 'gtk2' was found in amd64.
• 2295[19:02:42] *** Joins: InvisibleRasta_ (~nico@replaced-ip)
• 2296[19:02:44] <mixfix41> ,v gtk
• 2297[19:02:45] <judd> No package named 'gtk' was found in amd64.
• 2298[19:02:51] <mixfix41> ,v GTK
• 2299[19:02:52] <judd> No package named 'GTK' was found in amd64.
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• 2301[19:03:18] <greycat> mixfix41: try doing "apt-cache search --names-only gtk" locally first to find the package names. Or "dpkg -l | grep gtk" if it's already installed.
• 2302[19:03:31] <annadane> you can also /msg judd
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• 2304[19:03:37] <mixfix41> oh
• 2305[19:03:45] <annadane> again though, fedora is not debian, so...
• 2306[19:03:47] <joepublic> or talk to packages.debian.org
• 2307[19:04:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1422
• 2308[19:04:04] <mixfix41> yeah but you guys have it so thought to ask its on the application website
• 2309[19:04:48] <baros> I am even more confused than before
• 2310[19:04:55] <baros> I am completely lost
• 2311[19:04:59] <baros> what to do...
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• 2313[19:05:01] <joepublic> yeah but please don't sit here and guess at names of packages that might be in debian?
• 2314[19:05:14] <rant> php5 in wheezy even is still fully supported by private investors
• 2315[19:05:18] <annadane> mixfix41, how do you know our debian packages will work on fedora
• 2316[19:05:28] <annadane> use the fedora packages?
• 2317[19:05:34] *** Joins: buttros_ (~buttros_@replaced-ip)
• 2318[19:05:52] <baros> annadane> me? use fedora?
• 2319[19:05:57] <annadane> ...no.
• 2320[19:06:02] <annadane> mixfix41.
• 2321[19:06:06] <baros> ok
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• 2323[19:06:17] <joepublic> everyone should try alien at least once or twice and get it out of their system
• 2324[19:06:22] *** Joins: Aqo (~Aqo@replaced-ip)
• 2325[19:06:35] <annadane> alien isn't really recommended either
• 2326[19:06:44] <baros> guys I mean no disrespect, I really love your work and debian but....
• 2327[19:06:54] <greycat> .oO( the green-skinned ones from Star Trek? )
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• 2330[19:07:00] <baros> you should maybe have checked php EOL a bit closer
• 2331[19:07:17] <annadane> i think greycat addressed/will address your concerns most directly, baros. i'm not an expert, grey's much more of one
• 2332[19:07:20] *** Quits: InvisibleRasta_ (~nico@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2333[19:07:27] <greycat> I am not a PHP expert either.
• 2334[19:07:36] <joepublic> your industry-leading advice is very much appreciated baros.
• 2335[19:07:38] * shtrb point to gretcat answer
• 2336[19:07:42] <annadane> no, but the common sense is there, and you outlined some possible considerations above
• 2337[19:07:52] * shtrb point to greycat answer
• 2338[19:08:13] <annadane> baros, if you get an unsatisfactory answer here, you can try the mailing lists as well
• 2339[19:08:22] <annadane> i think... let me find the right list
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• 2342[19:08:31] <annadane> nominally it would just be debian-user
• 2343[19:08:35] *** Joins: InvisibleRasta_ (~nico@replaced-ip)
• 2344[19:08:43] <annadane> but i wonder if asking the security devs isn't a better option
• 2345[19:09:15] <Ede|Popede> the timing was really... 2016-11-05 stretch transition freeze, 2016-12-01 7.1 release , 2017-01-05: "Soft" freeze
• 2346[19:09:31] <baros> annadane> thank you for the advice I'll try that
• 2347[19:09:40] <baros> see you if I didn't kill myself
• 2348[19:09:47] <annadane> try debian-user@lists.debian.org, i guess
• 2349[19:10:06] <annadane> or just idle here and wait
• 2350[19:10:06] <joepublic> and counseling, seriously; it can be very helpful.
• 2351[19:10:12] <annadane> joepublic, unnecessary
• 2352[19:10:38] <joepublic> I just got back from counseling. I said it was helpful, not necessary.
• 2353[19:10:44] *** Quits: pax (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Quit: pax)
• 2354[19:10:53] <Aqo> hi guys, can I ask for advice here?
• 2355[19:11:02] <greycat> !ask
• 2356[19:11:02] <dpkg> If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
• 2357[19:11:07] <Aqo> been using centos for a while but moved to debian recently
• 2358[19:11:12] *** Joins: TheWizard (~thewizard@replaced-ip)
• 2359[19:11:18] <annadane> i guess you were referring to "kill myself", which i didn't immediately get. i thought you just meant "counceling" due to the perceived aggressiveness, never mind
• 2360[19:11:21] <Aqo> is there a good tldr guide of debian best practices
• 2361[19:11:35] <Aqo> something I can read to make sure I'm doing things in a not-dumb way
• 2362[19:11:35] <annadane> wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian is a good one
• 2363[19:11:39] <annadane> !newcomer
• 2364[19:11:39] <baros> annadane> maybe he can't take a joke
• 2365[19:11:40] <dpkg> Welcome to Debian! Here's some resources to help you on your merry way: The Debian Handbook: replaced-url
• 2366[19:11:51] <Aqo> cool, that's already plenty, thanks
• 2367[19:11:54] <baros> whatever thank you for the help
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• 2371[19:12:40] *** Joins: p3rror (~mezgani@replaced-ip)
• 2372[19:12:56] <mixfix41> annadane: i just want this package on this system
• 2373[19:13:02] <mixfix41> or appiamge
• 2374[19:13:08] <mixfix41> i emailed the author about appimage
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• 2376[19:13:12] <mixfix41> appimage seems pretty cool
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• 2381[19:14:56] <shtrb> ,v ibeacon
• 2382[19:14:57] <judd> No package named 'ibeacon' was found in amd64.
• 2383[19:15:08] *** Joins: p3rror (~mezgani@replaced-ip)
• 2384[19:16:11] <annadane> mixfix41, fair enough, if what you need really just isn't available in fedora. the general way to get applications not available in your package manager's repository is to compile it yourself, i just don't know how well that works for gtk and what you need it for and so on
• 2385[19:16:23] <annadane> the first line of defense for me would be "see if you can find it in fedora first"
• 2386[19:18:27] <annadane> i'd really just ask fedora support, as well as the fact that you say you do have gtk2 already, i'd just ask them for help diagnosing that error message
• 2387[19:18:40] <annadane> mixing packages from various distributions is generally a bad thing
• 2388[19:19:55] <mixfix41> that is correct
• 2389[19:20:01] <mixfix41> im compiling gtk+2 over
• 2390[19:20:09] <annadane> from what i read, and i could be wrong, it's "i get an error message, let me install debian packages on fedora to fix the problem"
• 2391[19:20:16] *** Quits: yokel (~yokel@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
• 2392[19:20:27] <annadane> which, i'd probably just ask about the error before jumping ahead
• 2393[19:20:38] <mixfix41> thats true nobody would recognize that error msg
• 2394[19:20:48] <mixfix41> it was a shot in a haystack
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• 2399[19:21:54] <yepla> hello
• 2400[19:21:55] <annadane> so see if your error can be directly solved. it may be as simple as a symlink
• 2401[19:22:04] <annadane> i don't know fedora that well
• 2402[19:22:20] <greycat> also consider asking in the #fedora channel
• 2403[19:22:26] <annadane> right, and that
• 2404[19:22:51] <yepla> i really don t understand until i have this new computer i need push the button to stop the computer when i shut down the computer it not stop it
• 2405[19:23:18] <yepla> th screen become black and the computer is still running and i need stop with the button
• 2406[19:23:31] <annadane> yepla, 1) how are you shutting it down 2) what debian version are you using
• 2407[19:23:41] <joepublic> excellent questions
• 2408[19:24:19] <yepla> annadane: i m using debian stable with MATE and i click on the menu of MATE: System and Shut Down
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• 2411[19:24:36] <yepla> i have find nothing about this problem
• 2412[19:24:48] <yepla> and it s now month i cannot find the problem
• 2413[19:25:16] <yepla> same for all kind of shut down
• 2414[19:25:21] <joepublic> Another question, what kind of computer (what processor and/or manufacturer)?
• 2415[19:25:27] <yepla> in MATE in lightdm withou login in
• 2416[19:25:43] <yepla> i have an intel i5-7500
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• 2419[19:26:45] <yepla> it will be great that i find how shutdown the computer without needed to press the button ...
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• 2422[19:27:22] <joepublic> out of curiosity, does sudo poweroff -f do the job?
• 2423[19:27:39] <yepla> when i shut down the computer the screen become black and num lock of the keyboard stop display light
• 2424[19:28:05] <yepla> joepublic: i can try it if you want
• 2425[19:28:14] <yepla> joepublic: do u ?
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• 2428[19:28:25] <joepublic> I am just curious more than anything.
• 2429[19:28:32] <annadane> i just use shutdown now
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• 2431[19:28:41] <yepla> i think i have try it s do same
• 2432[19:28:56] <yepla> black screen and no light on num lock of the keyboard
• 2433[19:29:03] <yepla> all this cmd do the same
• 2434[19:29:09] <yepla> shutdown -h now
• 2435[19:29:11] *** Joins: HugsWontletgo (~HugsWontl@replaced-ip)
• 2436[19:29:14] <yepla> poweroff ...
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• 2440[19:29:28] <annadane> i guess "post dmesg to paste.debian.net" is the right answer
• 2441[19:29:37] <shtrb> yepla, check if you had any errors regarding ACPI
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• 2445[19:30:01] <shtrb> there are cases if you have ACPI issues that the pc will go to halt and not shutdown
• 2446[19:30:08] <yepla> annadane: so i do dmesg and past it on paste.debian.net
• 2447[19:30:17] <annadane> it'd help, yeah
• 2448[19:30:28] <yepla> shtrb: what i need to do ?
• 2449[19:30:34] <yepla> annadane: ok i do it now
• 2450[19:30:56] <shtrb> in dmesg you will need to search for anything saying ACPI (or better as annadana said post it here)
• 2451[19:30:57] *** Quits: Harvey-Pwca (~HarveyPwc@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
• 2452[19:31:10] <annadane> yeah so maybe dmesg | grep -i acpi
• 2453[19:31:18] <annadane> though i think acpi is always IN ALL CAPS, but anyway
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• 2456[19:31:55] <shtrb> acpi is just one of the reasons that can do that to you (but would be the first thing I would check)
• 2457[19:32:17] <yepla> dmesg: replaced-url
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• 2462[19:33:54] <yepla> dmesg | grep -i acpi: replaced-url
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• 2465[19:34:40] <yepla> annadane shtrb do u see something ?
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• 2468[19:35:08] <shtrb> yepla, ACPI: [Firmware Bug]: BIOS _OSI(Linux) query ignored you may need to upgrade your bios -if you wish you can try checking if when booting with ACPI=off it shutdowns as correctly
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• 2470[19:35:18] <shtrb> it's a big maybe
• 2471[19:35:41] <annadane> or install the relevant microcode package?
• 2472[19:35:54] <yepla> annadane: which one ?
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• 2474[19:36:33] <yepla> intel-microcode?
• 2475[19:37:03] <annadane> if you have an intel processor, yes. you'd need to reboot for it to load, but uh, if it can't even shut down...
• 2476[19:37:21] <annadane> you should have it installed anyway just for security reasons and to fix general errors
• 2477[19:37:47] <yepla> intel-microcode is already the newest version (3.20180807a.1~deb9u1).
• 2478[19:38:10] <yepla> so shtrb i need upgrade my bios ?
• 2479[19:38:14] <shtrb> the fact your ASPM is disabled sound strange to me (acpi PNP0A08:00: _OSC failed (AE_ERROR); disabling ASPM ) is that a laptop
• 2480[19:38:23] <yepla> shtrb: no
• 2481[19:38:25] <shtrb> before bios upgrade try booting with ACPI=off
• 2482[19:38:26] <yepla> it s not a laptop
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• 2485[19:39:26] <shtrb> effectivally it says it has issues with the power source and power management (ASPM + the linux table)
• 2486[19:40:00] <yepla> shtrb: what is mean ?
• 2487[19:40:09] <yepla> what i need do ?
• 2488[19:40:14] *** Joins: bapophis (~belethapo@replaced-ip)
• 2489[19:40:46] <yepla> disabled acpi ?
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• 2492[19:41:13] <yepla> shtrb: ?
• 2493[19:41:34] <shtrb> try to modify a grub entry to add acpi=off on boot menu (for grub it's the letter 'e')
• 2494[19:41:49] <shtrb> you will change quiet to acpi=off quiet for example
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• 2497[19:42:09] <shtrb> or you can do it via editing a file /etc/defaults/grub and doing update-grub
• 2498[19:42:15] <yepla> shtrb: like that: GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="modprobe.blacklist=nouveau quiet intel_iommu=on acpi=off"
• 2499[19:42:47] <shtrb> yes, I do not know about the intel_iommu=on part
• 2500[19:43:03] <yepla> shtrb: it s for gpu passthrough
• 2501[19:43:09] <yepla> it s me i have do it
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• 2503[19:43:15] <yepla> ok it try i comme back
• 2504[19:43:32] <shtrb> you need to do update-grub to "write it"
• 2505[19:43:39] <yepla> update-grub or update-grub2 ?
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• 2507[19:44:13] <yepla> i reboot i come back
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• 2509[19:45:04] <shtrb> replaced-url
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• 2511[19:46:57] <jhutchins> InvisibleRasta: If that were the case there would be a few hundred other people (at least) who were having the same problem.
• 2512[19:47:26] <jhutchins> Wow, wierd buffer issues with irssi.
• 2513[19:47:56] <CyberFingers> I get the following error msg any suggestion what file I need to modify to resolve? PHP Fatal error: Class 'Mail' not found in /bitnami/lamp71stack-linux-x64/output/php/lib/php/Mail/mail.php on line 51
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• 2515[19:48:56] <yepla> shahri annadane: change nothing
• 2516[19:49:02] <greycat> ,info php-mail
• 2517[19:49:03] <judd> Package php-mail (php, optional) in stretch/amd64: Class that provides multiple interfaces for sending emails. Version: 1.3.0-1; Size: 24.7k; Installed: 125k; Homepage: replaced-url
• 2518[19:49:05] <yepla> i shutdown the computer
• 2519[19:49:08] <jhutchins_wk> CyberFingers: Sorry, that's really not a Debian question. Suggest you look for support resources for whateer package you're using.
• 2520[19:49:18] <greycat> CyberFingers: I would try checking whether that ^^ is installed.
• 2521[19:49:21] <shtrb> yepla, the acpi=off changed nothing ?
• 2522[19:49:29] <yepla> last line is: reboot: System halted
• 2523[19:49:34] <yepla> shtrb: yes
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• 2526[19:49:52] <yepla> last line after shutdown is reboot: System halted
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• 2528[19:50:03] <yepla> and the num lock of the keyboard stop display light
• 2529[19:50:17] <yepla> but the computer is not completly off
• 2530[19:50:19] <shtrb> wait is that the sleep and shutdown butons ?
• 2531[19:50:40] <shtrb> ignore my last comment
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• 2533[19:51:04] <yepla> it now one year i try to figure it out
• 2534[19:51:23] <shtrb> bug report ?
• 2535[19:51:32] <joepublic> yepla just a comment, it is possible to disable ACPI features in BIOS setup and make turning off the PC not work. If this has happened, restoring defaults in BIOS setup would fix it.
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• 2538[19:52:41] <yepla> joepublic: u tell to me to restoring default in BIOS setup ?
• 2539[19:53:17] <yepla> joepublic: i have not understand what i need to do ?
• 2540[19:53:47] <joepublic> yepla, I am telling you that IF that were the problem preventing proper shutdown, restoring default in BIOS would almost certainly fix it. If you have special BIOS settings for a reason, then it would also break them, so I leave it up to your knowledge of your own system as to whether to try it. If it was me I would try it.
• 2541[19:54:19] <yepla> joepublic: your english is too good for me
• 2542[19:54:30] <yepla> u tell to me to restore default bios ?
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• 2544[19:54:54] <joepublic> yepla, yes, sorry. I am suggesting to restore bios default settings, correct.
• 2545[19:55:08] <yepla> joepublic: does i need keep acpi=off or not ?
• 2546[19:55:20] <yepla> or i can remove it
• 2547[19:55:36] <joepublic> I would remove it
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• 2555[19:57:53] <yepla> joepublic: ok i go try it ...
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• 2557[19:58:07] <joepublic> luck
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• 2565[19:59:29] <annadane> we really need a "how to diagnose x common problem" page on the wiki or something
• 2566[19:59:44] <shtrb> crazy acpi is not that common
• 2567[19:59:55] <annadane> yeah i guess
• 2568[19:59:57] <joepublic> it used to be, but yeah, lately mostly just works
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• 2570[20:00:17] <shtrb> even is s3 is mostly just works
• 2571[20:00:23] <shtrb> *sleep
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• 2573[20:00:33] <rant> its been complicated somewhat by various odd implimentations and vendor specific drivers and utilities
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• 2575[20:01:04] <rant> but the kernel developers work hard to keep things like that transparent
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• 2588[20:05:36] <qiffan> yooo!
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• 2590[20:05:45] <qiffan> is it cool to migrate from 32bit to 64bit?
• 2591[20:06:07] *** Joins: vicamo (~vicamo@replaced-ip)
• 2592[20:06:34] <greycat> The only supported way to do that is to reinstall.
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• 2596[20:07:17] <joepublic> a great reason to have installed /home on separate partition or volume
• 2597[20:07:25] <rant> more pressing question in my mind would be why you would install 32bit to begin with
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• 2599[20:07:58] <n4dir> why would you install 64 bit is the question i would begin with
• 2600[20:08:11] *** Joins: bites (~bites@replaced-ip)
• 2601[20:08:12] <rant> unless you just been upgrading for a long time since multiarch and such were not so mature
• 2602[20:08:26] <annadane> "how am i still alive" is the question i would begin with
• 2603[20:08:44] <Zorroness> it is a rare situation nowadays, but if you are size constrained, there are still uses for 32 bit
• 2604[20:08:51] <joepublic> I remember when 64-bit hardware/32-bit OS was pretty common. Less common now but probably more than you might think.
• 2605[20:09:30] <Zorroness> if you have <4GB of memory, there's not as much benefit to 64 bit, and 32 bit binaries will consume less memory
• 2606[20:09:41] <joepublic> certain key things (firefox?) being 32-bit only for a time seems to have influenced the position
• 2607[20:10:05] <greycat> and now, some things are 64-bit only (google-chrome-stable)
• 2608[20:10:14] <rant> yes well initially there were things that were not yet available in 64bit now its becomming more the other way around. Only reason I have i386 is because I have legacy windows games in cxoffice
• 2609[20:10:34] <joepublic> just so.
• 2610[20:10:46] <n4dir> even not that easy when it comes to the distro as a whole, some don't offer 32 anymore.
• 2611[20:10:56] <rant> but multiarch works well so I can keep amd64 and have i386 too
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• 2613[20:12:15] <n4dir> Zorroness: probably what you said was my consideration (but it is quite some years i even tried 64, and to me it offered nothing, but raise in size and ram usage, and having to download a second iso for my non-64 machines, most of them)
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• 2616[20:12:42] <yepla> joepublic: it s has change nothing
• 2617[20:13:02] <joepublic> yepla, I am sorry that did not help. It is frustrating to have things not work as they should.
• 2618[20:13:06] <jhutchins_wk> Latest update of stretch causes the screensaver to prompt for login even though it's not set to lock.
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• 2622[20:13:21] <yepla> shtrb: does i need upgrade my bios ?
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• 2624[20:13:35] <qiffan> yoo! got dc :P
• 2625[20:13:48] <qiffan> anyone can answer me plz:P
• 2626[20:14:27] <shtrb> it could be, but you may need to play with acpi=force / and other options to see if it will work for you (and to check as annadane said about the faulty config)
• 2627[20:14:27] <annadane> "the only supported way is to reinstall"
• 2628[20:14:32] <annadane> qiffan
• 2629[20:14:34] <Zorroness> I think greycat was replying to you. I think he's right too.
• 2630[20:14:57] <annadane> from what i've heard crossgrades like that are really really difficult and it'd be faster to just backup/reinstall
• 2631[20:14:58] <yepla> shtrb: the faulty config ?
• 2632[20:15:29] <Zorroness> I'd back up my /home (or if it is a separate partition, preserve it) and just do a clean install
• 2633[20:15:34] <Zorroness> much less headaches
• 2634[20:15:38] <shtrb> <joepublic> yepla just a comment, it is possible to disable ACPI features in BIOS setup and make turning off the PC not work. If this has happened, restoring defaults in BIOS setup would fix it.
• 2635[20:15:45] <shtrb> yepla, ^
• 2636[20:15:56] <shtrb> sorry it was jowpublic's comment
• 2637[20:16:12] <yepla> does i need disable ACPI feature in BIOS setup ?
• 2638[20:17:21] <qiffan> thank you verry much
• 2639[20:17:22] <qiffan> :)
• 2640[20:17:25] <annadane> i've considered just putting my /home on a seperate partition before, never bothered
• 2641[20:17:30] <qiffan> i ll keep it 32bit :P
• 2642[20:17:46] <qiffan> just cause steam & discord dont run that good on 32 bit
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• 2644[20:18:15] <qiffan> btw rx 570 radeon, works well in 3D env ? under 32bit ?
• 2645[20:18:19] <joepublic> SSDs are small enough that one is encouraged to use one for / and another for /home is what finally did it for me
• 2646[20:18:34] <qiffan> ive tryed few steps dont run smooth the graphics
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• 2651[20:20:49] <rant> idk I've now used two and one was only 8GB the one in my laptop however is 256GB and plenty big enough for me to have it all on one drive and just use an external drive for media, VMs, etc
• 2652[20:21:20] <rant> It makes a huge difference in performance thats for sure
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• 2657[20:23:06] <qiffan> what should i install more mesa and amdgpu ?
• 2658[20:23:13] <qiffan> beside this 2 packs
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• 2662[20:24:04] <rant> qiffan: you may also need firmware-amd-graphics though I'm not sure. I have a machine where all worked without it except HDMI audio out and multihead support
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• 2665[20:24:26] <joepublic> qiffan, for a radeon 570 you probably need the firmware from non-free
• 2666[20:24:29] <rk[ghost]> firstly, is there a method to determine the last time i did a package update?
• 2667[20:24:32] <joepublic> what rant said.
• 2668[20:24:41] <annadane> rk[ghost], cat /var/log/apt/history.log
• 2669[20:24:50] <rk[ghost]> annadane: aha, logs :D
• 2670[20:24:51] <qiffan> joepublic, can you be more especific?
• 2671[20:24:59] <qiffan> firmware is installed
• 2672[20:25:36] <qiffan> amd64-microcode - Processor microcode firmware for AMD CPUs
• 2673[20:25:37] <qiffan> firmware-amd-graphics - Binary firmware for AMD/ATI graphics chips
• 2674[20:25:50] <qiffan> i only have last one installed, are you talking about the 1st one ?
• 2675[20:26:03] <rk[ghost]> err, looks like these logs get rotated and i forget the command to view the older logs...
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• 2678[20:26:31] <annadane> zless /var/log/apt/history.log.1.gz etc or whatever it is
• 2679[20:26:38] <annadane> ls /var/log/apt to see all of them
• 2680[20:26:54] <rk[ghost]> annadane: aha, zless thanks SOOO
• 2681[20:26:59] <rk[ghost]> much:)
• 2682[20:27:02] <qiffan> But how come, !?
• 2683[20:27:04] <qiffan> glxinfo | grep "direct"
• 2684[20:27:04] <qiffan> direct rendering: Yes
• 2685[20:27:07] *** Quits: InvisibleRasta (~Invisible@replaced-ip) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
• 2686[20:27:08] <annadane> or zcat? it's pretty much the same
• 2687[20:27:15] <qiffan> and slow graphics
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• 2689[20:27:18] <rk[ghost]> i prefer less, thanks.
• 2690[20:27:21] <annadane> i prefer using less over cat but whatever
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• 2692[20:27:30] <rk[ghost]> ^.^
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• 2694[20:27:34] <joepublic> firmware-amd-graphics is what you need for the radeon 570.
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• 2699[20:28:05] <rant> maybe your hw just sucks or you're doing too much :P
• 2700[20:29:13] <joepublic> I have only tried radeon RX cards under 64-bit debian, where they work very very well, nice and fast.
• 2701[20:29:32] <rk[ghost]> aha, so it does look like i recently did a careless apt-get upgrade..
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• 2704[20:30:15] <rk[ghost]> i have been having issues with iceweasel since Nov 1.. i see an upgrade on Oct 19
• 2705[20:30:25] <rk[ghost]> not sure what possessed me to do that-.-
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• 2707[20:30:38] <joepublic> the seductive promise of updates?
• 2708[20:30:40] <rk[ghost]> is there a way to rollback for a given package (iceweasel) and it's dependencies?
• 2709[20:30:59] <joepublic> apt install packagename/version
• 2710[20:31:28] <rk[ghost]> i think i was just curious one day, or maybe it was required for getting something else to work.. not sure.. but i did a blank 'apt-get upgrade'.. and i don't keep my system up to do.. so something is surely to get borked.. and this is my only machine so i need it to "just work" -.-
• 2711[20:31:28] *** Joins: cdown (~cdown@replaced-ip)
• 2712[20:31:41] <rk[ghost]> joepublic: ah, do i need to uninstall the other version first?
• 2713[20:31:51] <joepublic> rk[ghost], no, apt will take care of it.
• 2714[20:31:56] *** Quits: xcm (~xcm@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2715[20:31:58] <annadane> ,v iceweasel
• 2716[20:31:59] <judd> Package: iceweasel on amd64 -- wheezy: 38.8.0esr-1~deb7u1; sid: 45.9.0esr-1; jessie-backports/firefox-release: 52.1.0esr-1~bpo80+1; wheezy-security: 52.8.0esr-1~deb7u1; jessie: 52.8.1esr-1~deb8u1; jessie-security: 52.8.1esr-1~deb8u1; stretch: 52.9.0esr-1~deb9u1; stretch-security: 52.9.0esr-1~deb9u1; sid: 60.3.0esr-1~deb9u1; stretch: 60.3.0esr-1~deb9u1; stretch-security:
• 2717[20:31:59] <rk[ghost]> and secondly, is there a way for me to determine what prveious version of iceweasel i had?
• 2718[20:32:00] <judd> 60.3.0esr-1~deb9u1
• 2719[20:32:00] *** Quits: diniwed (~gavron@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
• 2720[20:32:09] <rk[ghost]> joepublic: thanks, that is great to know :D
• 2721[20:32:11] <joepublic> annadane has you covered there.
• 2722[20:32:19] <annadane> well not exactly
• 2723[20:32:40] <annadane> i'm actually not sure how to check what previous version you had other than grepping iceweasel in the apt logs
• 2724[20:32:47] <greycat> rk[ghost]: zgrep 'status installed firefox-esr' /var/log/dpkg.log*
• 2725[20:32:50] <joepublic> rk[ghost], note that when you upgrade again, it will upgrade that package again.
• 2726[20:32:55] *** Joins: xcm (~xcm@replaced-ip)
• 2727[20:32:57] <annadane> oo.
• 2728[20:33:00] *** Joins: pity_ (~pity@replaced-ip)
• 2729[20:33:06] <rk[ghost]> roger roger... thanks for all this insite.
• 2730[20:33:11] *** Joins: diniwed (~gavron@replaced-ip)
• 2731[20:33:17] <rk[ghost]> i really ought to learn the ins and outs of debian if ima be using it :P
• 2732[20:33:33] <rk[ghost]> thanks for the responsive ya'll.. very helpful.. indeed.
• 2733[20:33:49] *** Quits: SomebodySocks (~felix@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2734[20:34:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1429
• 2735[20:34:10] <annadane> yeah that's what i tell myself, and then procrastination intervenes
• 2736[20:34:38] *** Joins: roshanavand (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
• 2737[20:34:57] *** Joins: SomebodySocks (~felix@replaced-ip)
• 2738[20:35:01] *** Quits: pity (~pity@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
• 2739[20:35:20] <rk[ghost]> well my root issue is, i don't want to spend time computing anymore. i just want my machine to 'just work' for when i need it to research or communicate...
• 2740[20:35:20] *** Joins: White-Whizard (~White-Whi@replaced-ip)
• 2741[20:35:20] *** Quits: towo` (~towo@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 2742[20:35:38] <annadane> !tell rk[ghost] about newcomer
• 2743[20:35:39] *** Parts: White-Whizard (~White-Whi@replaced-ip) ()
• 2744[20:35:40] <Tenkawa> areplaced-url
• 2745[20:35:52] <Tenkawa> (for me anyway)
• 2746[20:36:02] <rk[ghost]> annadane: it _was_ all the fun for me, but it just isn't anymore
• 2747[20:36:11] <annadane> that's fair
• 2748[20:36:19] *** Joins: towo` (~towo@replaced-ip)
• 2749[20:36:20] <joepublic> just work and manually tweaking versions are rarely compatible.
• 2750[20:37:47] <rk[ghost]> living in the matrix was fun for a long while, but i now yearn for activity attached to reality
• 2751[20:38:07] <rk[ghost]> however, in order to collaborate, using "tech" is required..
• 2752[20:38:17] <rk[ghost]> OK thanks for the suggestions, lemme poke around!
• 2753[20:38:33] *** Joins: hk238 (~kvirc@replaced-ip)
• 2754[20:38:37] <rk[ghost]> annadane: thanks again for the merry welcome;P
• 2755[20:38:58] <hk238> Hello. I'm using KDE with debian. Is it possible to change to a different desktop environment without reinstalling debian?
• 2756[20:39:22] <greycat> Yes, absolutely. Just install the new one, and most of the display managers will let you choose one with a dropdown when you login.
• 2757[20:39:33] <joepublic> hk, yes; install the environment that you want. pick which one you want on the login screen.
• 2758[20:39:48] <hk238> okay cool thanks
• 2759[20:39:52] <greycat> You can also change which one is the default with "update-alternatives --config x-session-manager", IIRC
• 2760[20:40:03] *** Quits: yepla (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2761[20:40:13] *** Quits: cdown (~cdown@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2762[20:40:13] <annadane> learn to love window managers :P less bloat
• 2763[20:40:20] <annadane> i digress
• 2764[20:40:27] <hk238> I don't even know what window manager is
• 2765[20:40:28] <hk238> :D
• 2766[20:40:32] *** Joins: cdown (~cdown@replaced-ip)
• 2767[20:41:03] <rk[ghost]> zgrep 'status installed firefox-esr' dpkg.log.* returns 2 entries.. :) the 52.9.0 on october 19.. and 52.2.0 on 2017-06-24 :)
• 2768[20:41:05] *** Quits: oojacoboo (~oojacoboo@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
• 2769[20:41:09] <rk[ghost]> mwhaha.
• 2770[20:41:27] <annadane> it's kind of a coloquial term, every desktop has its own window manager it uses and "desktop environments" are also sort of a coloquial term, they just come with their own suite of stuff
• 2771[20:41:40] <rk[ghost]> let's roll back and see what happens.. this reminds me i should have installed Bedrock "Linux" many ages ago:P
• 2772[20:41:48] <annadane> at a certain level of reductionism they merge into the same thing
• 2773[20:41:49] <greycat> wooledg:~$ zgrep 'status installed firefox-esr' /var/log/dpkg.log* | wc -l
• 2774[20:41:49] <greycat> 13
• 2775[20:42:01] <rk[ghost]> /join #bedrock
• 2776[20:42:01] *** Quits: queip (~queip@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 2777[20:42:05] <rk[ghost]> whoops doh! srry
• 2778[20:42:15] <annadane> i just said "screw it" and installed openbox finally after messing with desktop environments
• 2779[20:42:30] <hk238> What's openbox?
• 2780[20:42:39] <annadane> a window manager. :P
• 2781[20:42:51] * rk[ghost] is a fan of i3wm!
• 2782[20:42:55] <annadane> replaced-url
• 2783[20:43:06] <greycat> A desktop environment includes a window manager, and a whole lot more. Some people prefer *just* to use the WM itself.
• 2784[20:43:13] <BCMM> hk238: openbox is a window manager. on an x11 desktop, the window manager is the thing that helps you move and resize windows, and probably draws window decorations too
• 2785[20:43:26] *** Joins: queip (~queip@replaced-ip)
• 2786[20:43:40] *** Quits: victor_ (~victor@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 2787[20:44:04] <BCMM> hk238: openbox is sort of designed to stand alone, but desktop environments usually ship their own window manager, that's somewhat integrated with the rest of the environment. kde's window manager is called kwin.
• 2788[20:44:11] *** Joins: victor_ (~victor@replaced-ip)
• 2789[20:44:59] <rk[ghost]> also, i need to "once and forall get bash to record ALL of my commands. i keep noticing that something gets reset. imo it should never forget anything i've typed.. so i can search back in the future as it could be years later.. and reading my own command list reloads my brain quite well..
• 2790[20:45:03] <n4dir> you could add the info that "openbox" is very similar to fluxbox and blackbox (perhaps even more ***-box wm's)
• 2791[20:45:14] <qiffan> Anyone, on 32bit, running well , 3D ?
• 2792[20:45:23] <qiffan> with rx 570
• 2793[20:45:26] <rk[ghost]> somehow i feel as though i have set it to an absurd size and something resets it here and there.. or else i just don't actually know what i am doing :P
• 2794[20:45:40] <hk238> reboot
• 2795[20:45:44] *** Quits: hk238 (~kvirc@replaced-ip##) (Quit: KVIrc 5.0.0 Aria ##replaced-url
• 2796[20:46:08] *** Quits: tyzoid (~tyzoid@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
• 2797[20:46:09] *** Quits: qiffan (~murtas@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 2798[20:47:01] <rk[ghost]> err, what is the difference between package name iceweasel and firefox-esr.. they seem to be like aliases or something o.O/
• 2799[20:47:04] <rk[ghost]> ?
• 2800[20:47:40] *** Quits: xSmurf (~MrSmurf@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
• 2801[20:48:08] <BCMM> rk[ghost]: it's a "transitional package" replaced-url
• 2802[20:48:09] *** Joins: blazblu (~xyzone@replaced-ip)
• 2803[20:48:15] *** Parts: blazblu (~xyzone@replaced-ip) ()
• 2804[20:48:22] <greycat> !iceweasel
• 2805[20:48:23] <dpkg> Iceweasel was a DFSG-free fork of <firefox>, replacing it in Debian since 4.0 "Etch". See <why iceweasel>, <iceweasel vs firefox>, <iceweasel user-agent>, replaced-url
• 2806[20:48:24] <BCMM> rk[ghost]: it only exists for historical reasons. it's only purpose now is to depend on firefox-esr
• 2807[20:48:57] <BCMM> rk[ghost]: that way, anybody who used to have iceweasel installed gets automatically upgraded to firefox-esr
• 2808[20:48:58] <joepublic> there is an iceweasel branding plugin for firefox-esr
• 2809[20:49:47] *** Quits: oish (~charlie@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 2810[20:49:49] *** Quits: roshanavand (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2811[20:49:57] <rk[ghost]> ah, ok, that mostly makes sense. enough for me to accept it:)
• 2812[20:49:58] <BCMM> add-on or extension, technically. plugin have a specific meaning when it comes to browsers
• 2813[20:50:05] <BCMM> s/have/has/
• 2814[20:50:07] *** Quits: sasukeskapa (~sasukeska@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
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• 2816[20:50:14] *** Joins: roshanavand (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
• 2817[20:50:24] <rk[ghost]> so, the previous install of firefox-esr seems to be : dpkg.log.10.gz:2017-06-24 20:16:29 status installed firefox-esr:armhf 52.2.0esr-1~deb8u1
• 2818[20:50:36] <joepublic> BCMM, you are of course correct.
• 2819[20:50:38] <rk[ghost]> i tried, apt-get install firefox-esr/52.2.0
• 2820[20:50:48] <annadane> iceweasel is a window manager.
• 2821[20:50:50] <annadane> wait. no.
• 2822[20:50:52] <annadane> sorry.
• 2823[20:50:56] <rk[ghost]> that seems to be inaccurate.
• 2824[20:51:00] *** Joins: oish (~charlie@replaced-ip)
• 2825[20:51:05] <annadane> just being silly
• 2826[20:51:05] <BCMM> rk[ghost]: why would you want to run esr52?
• 2827[20:51:18] <Tenkawa> uggh esr
• 2828[20:51:21] <rk[ghost]> BCMM: current firefox insta-crashes. i want to return to the one that works.
• 2829[20:51:26] <Tenkawa> ancient
• 2830[20:51:39] <BCMM> rk[ghost]: the reason it's not available in debian is that it's now EOL upstream. no further security updates.
• 2831[20:51:47] <rk[ghost]> ah.
• 2832[20:51:58] <Tenkawa> rk[ghost]: that sounds like a plugin you are running
• 2833[20:52:00] <rk[ghost]> i can run FF in safe-mode..
• 2834[20:52:11] *** Joins: tyzoid (~tyzoid@replaced-ip)
• 2835[20:52:13] <n4dir> annadane: for quite some people the webbrowser probabl is the GUI and even the OS.
• 2836[20:52:15] <BCMM> rk[ghost]: a web browser is one of those things you really really shouldn't use a dead version of, but if you really really need it you can get it, see snapshot.debian.org
• 2837[20:52:17] <rk[ghost]> my workflow requires the plugin Pentadactyl
• 2838[20:52:30] *** Joins: Der (~Der@replaced-ip)
• 2839[20:52:37] <annadane> just use emacs :P
• 2840[20:52:40] <BCMM> rk[ghost]: if fx works in safemode, then it sounds like it's your profile that's broken, rather than your firefox version
• 2841[20:52:47] <rk[ghost]> i think it is the root isssue. i thought i read something a little while back that the newer versions of FF are incompatible with pentadactyl
• 2842[20:53:02] <rk[ghost]> for some reason i upgraded it, late at night i presume.. without thinking of the consequences.
• 2843[20:53:12] <BCMM> rk[ghost]: it wouldn't crash due to that - it would just disable it
• 2844[20:53:22] <rk[ghost]> a new profile also crashes..
• 2845[20:53:29] <BCMM> rk[ghost]: mozilla has removed the old XUL extensions API
• 2846[20:53:40] <rk[ghost]> and Pentadactyl required this?
• 2847[20:53:42] <BCMM> rk[ghost]: wait, what? i brand-new profile crashed, but safe mode work?
• 2848[20:53:46] <rk[ghost]> roger.
• 2849[20:54:09] <rk[ghost]> it is strange, i tried to ask around in #firefox on mozilla netowrk.. no answers when sharing my crash log
• 2850[20:54:21] <BCMM> rk[ghost]: replaced-url
• 2851[20:54:30] <rk[ghost]> anyhoot, the old version worked for me, as such i just want somethign that "works" and my workflow is fully dependant upon pentadactyl
• 2852[20:54:35] <BCMM> rk[ghost]: a *lot* of extensions are dead because of this
• 2853[20:54:48] <rk[ghost]> hmm, why did FF do this manuever!? :P
• 2854[20:54:51] *** Quits: roshanavand (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
• 2855[20:54:58] <BCMM> it's a complete change of extension API, to something more like what chrome has.
• 2856[20:55:08] *** Joins: xSmurf (~MrSmurf@replaced-ip)
• 2857[20:55:14] <BCMM> rk[ghost]: partly for compatibility with chrome extensions, and partly because it allows them to make changes to the browser more freely
• 2858[20:55:24] *** Joins: slv (~slv@replaced-ip)
• 2859[20:55:56] <rk[ghost]> one would think once you set an API, it would be in stone to prevent such things unless some miracle new design.. but again you'd think a backwordcs compability layer would be developed ahead of time
• 2860[20:55:57] <BCMM> rk[ghost]: xul extensions had really extensive access to browser internals and could do just about anything. as such, it was difficult to make changes to firefox without breaking random extensions
• 2861[20:56:01] <annadane> rk[ghost], i don't know about pendactyl but you can try waterfox (not available in debian, you'd have to download it from the website), it's a fork of firefox that supports a bunch of legacy extensions (and gets rid of some of mozilla's telemtry etc)
• 2862[20:56:16] <BCMM> rk[ghost]: that's the thing
• 2863[20:56:19] <rk[ghost]> oh, they broke it for "security" rsosn -.-
• 2864[20:56:21] *** Joins: sanches (~sanches@replaced-ip)
• 2865[20:56:25] <BCMM> rk[ghost]: the old extension api broke all the time
• 2866[20:56:37] <rk[ghost]> hmm, ah i see.
• 2867[20:56:43] <n4dir> only future will tell if that will stop now.
• 2868[20:56:47] <BCMM> rk[ghost]: because it wasn't really an "api" - a narrowly-defined public interface
• 2869[20:56:52] <annadane> that said i still need to figure out in general how to get these stupid things autoupdating, if you just stick it in your home directory it tends not to work, same for firefox >_>
• 2870[20:56:55] *** Joins: jubo2 (~juboxi@replaced-ip)
• 2871[20:57:14] <n4dir> looks a lot as if the biggest concern of devs is to piss people of by breaking their workflow every other day.
• 2872[20:57:15] *** Joins: soee (~soee@replaced-ip)
• 2873[20:57:46] <annadane> it's the bash firefox hour/week/month/year
• 2874[20:58:02] *** Quits: yokel (~yokel@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2875[20:58:05] <rk[ghost]> i have a strong opion that i should have to update my system more than once or twice a year for anything.. i am not a fan of "rolling release". it seems to allow pushing of untested / wonky things and promote shortsighted development. but i am not here to complain.. i am here to resolve my computing issues:P
• 2876[20:58:05] <BCMM> rk[ghost]: i mean, one of the strengths of firefox was the rich extensions ecosystem, and it's a shame to see some of the most interesting parts of it fade a way, but that's why they did it
• 2877[20:58:37] <BCMM> rk[ghost]: do you mean "update" as in install updates, at all, or as in large, breaking changes like a new OS version?
• 2878[20:58:57] <n4dir> that was the reason i used it, BCMM (lots of extensions ).
• 2879[20:59:14] <BCMM> rk[ghost]: if it's the former, you basically don't get to use the internet, because security problems and security updates just keep happening
• 2880[20:59:14] <greycat> He has *two* updates of firefox-esr where I have 13, so he is clearly skipping the routine apt-get update/upgrade dance.
• 2881[20:59:17] <rk[ghost]> any change, to be honest. but again, that is a can of worms i didn't mean to open. can we put pandora back in the box?
• 2882[20:59:39] <rk[ghost]> right, well the internet only makes me :ALSDKFJDKLJFS. if i had a magic power, i would destory it:)
• 2883[20:59:41] <BCMM> rk[ghost]: but if you only want to install a new version of the OS every two years, you've come to the right place
• 2884[20:59:49] <rk[ghost]> fantastic!
• 2885[20:59:55] <rk[ghost]> which, i am in need of doing that.
• 2886[21:00:02] <rk[ghost]> but -- i need a new harddrive
• 2887[21:00:10] <rk[ghost]> as i know it'll bork too much, i want to just start fresh
• 2888[21:00:10] <BCMM> rk[ghost]: because that's what debian stable does - there *are* software updates, because software breaks, all the time, in bad ways
• 2889[21:00:25] *** Joins: yokel (~yokel@replaced-ip)
• 2890[21:00:29] <rk[ghost]> although, not to be a traitor, but i am so tempted to go back to Gentoo ;P
• 2891[21:00:41] <BCMM> rk[ghost]: but they try to avoid literally all updates that are just new features or moving stuff around for no reason in stable
• 2892[21:01:11] <annadane> anyway, look into waterfox. you may like it. or hate it.
• 2893[21:01:12] <rk[ghost]> again not to open another can-o-worms, but can i use OpenRC (or something other than systemd) for new version of debian?
• 2894[21:01:23] <annadane> there is, btw, tridactyl for vim-style bindings, which i use
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• 2897[21:01:32] <annadane> if pendactyl doesn't work anymore
• 2898[21:01:34] <rk[ghost]> annadane: aye aye. i will (after) i return my system back to a working version of firefox with pentadactyl plugin;P
• 2899[21:01:35] <BCMM> rk[ghost]: the idea is that you should only have to deal with software changing in ways that break workflow when a new version of stable comes out, and it *mostly* works that way
• 2900[21:01:37] *** Joins: soee_ (~soee@replaced-ip)
• 2901[21:01:43] <greycat> If you dislike updating things, I can't *imagine* you'd like gentoo. Or even worse, arch.
• 2902[21:01:47] <rk[ghost]> BCMM: aye.
• 2903[21:01:48] <n4dir> rk[ghost]: you can for sure use sysv, runit and openrc are ... let's say: difficult.
• 2904[21:01:56] *** Quits: soee (~soee@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
• 2905[21:02:10] <BCMM> rk[ghost]: (although there are exceptions, like they recently had to bump the firefox version due to the old firefox-esr being eol upstream)
• 2906[21:02:11] *** Joins: clemens3_ (~clemens@replaced-ip)
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• 2908[21:02:33] <watchcat> you can install systemd-shim, then use whatever init you want.
• 2909[21:02:33] *** Quits: jfoy (~jfoy@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
• 2910[21:02:45] <rk[ghost]> i am familiar enough with openrc that i would like to use it.. and systemd has given me much strife that i'd prefer to abandon it..
• 2911[21:03:00] <n4dir> watchcat: being able to install it is not the same as being able to use it.
• 2912[21:03:03] <Tenkawa> is there a good package in debian to monitor dual intel wifi card signals?
• 2913[21:03:08] <rk[ghost]> maybe openrc would give me such issue too, but i have had unbootable systems "system time has changed" for months in the past.. which is really frustrating.
• 2914[21:03:11] <greycat> Debian currently only supports systemd and sysvinit, so you're kinda on your own with anything else.
• 2915[21:03:26] <rk[ghost]> systems really don't like to be disconnected to the internet for month at a time..
• 2916[21:03:34] <greycat> There *was* support for runit, a bit, kinda, but it was yanked from stretch at the last minute.
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• 2918[21:03:43] <n4dir> for runit i can sure say that i couldn't do poweroff or halt.
• 2919[21:03:45] <Tenkawa> i just moved a mini-pci card over and i want to keep an eye on the signal
• 2920[21:04:07] *** Quits: roshanavand (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2921[21:04:11] <n4dir> which is the reason why it was removed before stretch went stable, iirc.
• 2922[21:04:11] <rk[ghost]> anyhoot- lemme try this rollback and see where it leads... thanks again everyone. really appreciate help that isn't pushy to ones own agenda. ya'll being very direclty helpful with *my* wishes:)
• 2923[21:04:23] <greycat> People not being able to switch to runit in a straightforward manner was, I believe, the main reason it was pulled. There was a way to do it, but it wasn't obvious to end users.
• 2924[21:04:23] *** Joins: roshanavand (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
• 2925[21:04:48] <n4dir> greycat: pretty sure the lack of poweroff was at least the starting point of that bug-repot.
• 2926[21:05:23] <n4dir> then it went back and forth, then runit was removed.
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• 2929[21:06:57] <watchcat> ah so. i use sysvinit and assumed others were available as well.
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• 2931[21:07:39] <greycat> replaced-url
• 2932[21:08:49] <joepublic> runit had that bug where it stopped taking commands
• 2933[21:09:02] <n4dir> replaced-url
• 2934[21:09:03] <judd> Bug replaced-url
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• 2936[21:09:19] <greycat> that's also linked from the wiki page I gave
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• 2938[21:10:08] <n4dir> then sorry.
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• 2940[21:11:02] <watchcat> informative links. ty.
• 2941[21:11:22] <annadane> so do all init systems just suck then, or is just that people refuse to use systemd based on principle instead of technical merit...
• 2942[21:11:51] <greycat> All of the objections to systemd are philosophical.
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• 2945[21:12:03] <Tenkawa> theres no 1 system that fits all scenarios/configurations
• 2946[21:12:10] <annadane> i forget what the BSDs use but port that to debian so people can stop complaining
• 2947[21:12:13] <greycat> It is head and shoulders above everything else in terms of technical capability.
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• 2949[21:12:27] <n4dir> i wouldn't call the site Systemd at mywiki.wooledge.org philosophical ...
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• 2952[21:12:56] <n4dir> annadane: there are quite some installable init systems in the debian repos, that is not the problem.
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• 2954[21:13:06] <greycat> I don't have much on my wiki regarding systemd. There's the "Stop Clearing My Screen" page, which is 30% rant 70% howto.
• 2955[21:13:27] <n4dir> i mainly enjoyed the rant, and yes, that was the page i meant.
• 2956[21:13:39] <aphorise> What can I do to get my Intel I219-V ehternet car tested / working via livecd? - I'm using a small wifi adaptor which works via livecd but none of the internal network interfaces using debian-live-9.6.0-amd64-gnome+nonfree- anyy suggestions? I've tested a couple of other distro's in which the built in nic works fine.
• 2957[21:13:47] <joepublic> there are objections to systemd under the heading of "I don't want to learn anything new" which are weak, but are not as philosophical as the rest.
• 2958[21:14:27] <n4dir> joepublic: if you don't want systemd, you have to learn something new anyway. So that statement doesn't hold the facts.
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• 2960[21:14:38] <joepublic> hence the weakness.
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• 2962[21:14:46] <n4dir> the main argument probably is: do one thing, do it well.
• 2963[21:15:44] <joepublic> aphorise, by +nonfree do you mean that you have installed any firmware in response to "possible missing firmware" messages?
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• 2965[21:18:07] <aphorise> joepublic Indeed - I have tried downloading mutliple iso's from replaced-url
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• 2968[21:18:49] <joepublic> aphorise, on those systems on which the NIC does work, what driver does it use? lspci -vvv will tell you if you don't know
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• 2972[21:20:44] <joepublic> I ask with the thought in mind to modprobe that driver ("Kernel modules:" field) in your debian boot.
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• 2976[21:22:16] <aphorise> joepublic I am going to boot into the above mentioned debian version & paste bin output then I'll switch over to mxlinux.
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• 2978[21:22:37] <joepublic> aphorise, sounds like a plan.
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• 2980[21:23:06] <joepublic> the mxlinux lspci sounds the most helpful if that's the environment that the card is working under.
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• 2985[21:25:51] <aphorise> joepublic ok redoing image - its wiered how wifi adaptor also doesnt work immediatly I have to replug it on usb for it to get enabled.
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• 3002[21:33:11] <aphorise> joepublic replaced-url
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• 3006[21:34:46] <joepublic> okay, e1000e is the module. what kernel version is this? uname -a?
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• 3009[21:35:41] <joepublic> under your debian boot I would say to try sudo modprobe e1000e and/or sudo modprobe e1000
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• 3012[21:37:57] <aphorise> joepublic replaced-url
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• 3014[21:38:25] <aphorise> joepublic ok but I think I actually tried that last week both modules.
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• 3019[21:41:07] <aphorise> joepublic what else to try after if it still doesnt work? (re-imagine again - only got 1 usb pen drive)
• 3020[21:41:20] <joepublic> The only other thing I see is that kernel is very new (4.15) whereas stable has version 4.9? I think.
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• 3025[21:42:10] <joepublic> and I remember reading on phoronix that e1000e has seen some recent work (might be relevant, might not)
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• 3031[21:44:02] <joepublic> what we know is that that 4.15 kernel supports your card with e1000e.
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• 3039[21:44:55] <aphorise> joepublic so what you mean try some later driver from vendor / intel? i couldnt find the device on their site.
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• 3041[21:45:22] <joepublic> I mean you could try a later kernel.
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• 3043[21:45:32] <joepublic> which would contain by definition a newer driver.
• 3044[21:46:23] <joepublic> stretch has kernel 4.18 - for the learning I would try that. If modprobe e1000e doesn't fix it, that is
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• 3046[21:46:33] <joepublic> not stretch. buster. buster has 4.18
• 3047[21:46:54] <aphorise> joepublic perfect undergoing it again now - thanks... good thing I have the wifi working at least.
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• 3050[21:47:49] <aphorise> After that comes the problem of the built in wifi :-p
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• 3057[21:50:46] <jhutchins_wk> Some implementations of the e1000 require firmware.
• 3058[21:50:49] <watchcat> 4.18 is available for stretch. 4.17 works better for me though.
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• 3071[21:55:00] <imMute> When running "apt-get --dry-run -o Debug::pkgProblemResolver=yes dist-upgrade", it tells me that there's a problem, but I'm having a hard time deciphering the output. Output here: replaced-url
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• 3160[22:53:39] <styles> Hey, I was in here last night talking with a few guys trying to solve a concurrency issue. I want to have N workers who are processing X jobs (more than workers), and the first one to have the answer, return it and cancel the rest of the workers out. We came up with replaced-url
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• 3162[22:55:12] <styles> Wrong channel, sorry everyone
• 3163[22:55:22] <greycat> replaced-url
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• 3221[23:26:23] <firc518fedeb> hello
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• 3228[23:29:23] <firc518fedeb> ?
• 3229[23:29:46] <firc518fedeb> what s the point ?
• 3230[23:29:47] <jhutchins_wk> ,kernels
• 3231[23:29:48] <judd> Available kernel versions are: experimental: 4.19.0-rc7-686-pae (4.19~rc7-1~exp1); sid: 4.18.0-2-686-pae (4.18.10-2+b1); buster: 4.18.0-2-686-pae (4.18.10-2+b1); stretch-backports: 4.18.0-0.bpo.1-686-pae (4.18.6-1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.9.0-8-686-pae (4.9.130-2); jessie-backports: 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.8-686-pae (4.9.110-3+deb9u5~deb8u1);
• 3232[23:29:49] <judd> wheezy-backports: 3.16.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae (3.16.39-1+deb8u1~bpo70+1); wheezy: 3.2.0-6-686-pae (3.2.102-1)
• 3233[23:30:24] <jhutchins_wk> aphorise: 4.18's in stretch backports as well.
• 3234[23:30:34] <firc518fedeb> hello
• 3235[23:30:56] <jhutchins_wk> imMute: I would try disabling the third party repos. You can re-enable later.
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• 3240[23:33:45] <jhutchins_wk> !udev
• 3241[23:33:45] <dpkg> udev is a /dev and hotplug management daemon, the Linux kernel's userspace equivalent of <DevFS>. Ask me about <udev mac>, <blacklist.conf>. See also <udev rules>, <udev squeeze>, <udev details>, <dpin>, <devtmpfs>. replaced-url
• 3242[23:33:54] *** Joins: hammer065 (~hammer065@replaced-ip)
• 3243[23:34:30] <firc518fedeb> do someone know where dropbear put his logs ? (don't have an auth.log││ │
• 3244[23:34:39] <jhutchins_wk> imMute: I'd also make sure you don't have a third-party udev-related package installed, and that you have a solid set of Debian repos.
• 3245[23:34:39] <firc518fedeb> ?
• 3246[23:34:45] <jhutchins_wk> !sources.ist
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• 3249[23:35:24] <jhutchins_wk> firc518fedeb: Try /var/log/secure or the main /var/log/[messages|syslog]
• 3250[23:35:36] <jhutchins_wk> !sources.list
• 3251[23:35:37] <dpkg> A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Stretch" has three lines: "deb replaced-url
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• 3253[23:37:35] <imMute> jhutchins_wk: unfortunately, the whole point of what I'm doing is to update those third party pieces (which is just the software that we write at $work). I'm extremely confident I don't have a non-standard udev package installed, but it's probably an old version (and no access to a newer version on these systems).
• 3254[23:37:51] <firc518fedeb> thx but also don't have /var/log/messages or syslog
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• 3256[23:38:31] <firc518fedeb> don't know why
• 3257[23:38:32] <imMute> jhutchins_wk: IOW, I don't think it's specifically a udev issue, I think it's something with how I'm distributing these updates - it just happens that the udev package is the one that it complains about.
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• 3271[23:44:31] <agio> what is the nohup command used for ?
• 3272[23:45:01] <agio> does nohup have any purpose in a modern shell, desktop environment?
• 3273[23:45:26] <jhutchins_wk> firc518fedeb: Dropbear is usually used on systems with restricted resources (like routers). If and where it logs is probably up to whoever built it.
• 3274[23:45:47] <jhutchins_wk> firc518fedeb: I think you're ok to run it as is and just accept the error.
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• 3276[23:46:35] <jhutchins_wk> agio: Yes it does. It allows you to run a procecss that will not terminate if you log out, and will save any stdout/stderr to a log.
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• 3278[23:47:22] <jhutchins_wk> agio: You can also use a detached screen session, and there is also a way to detatch the process from your session.
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• 3280[23:47:58] <jhutchins_wk> agio: Man pages usually at least give you an idea what a command is for.
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• 3282[23:48:13] <agio> jhutchins_wk: is it a requirement that nohup be followed with the & to restore control of the terminal back to the shell?
• 3283[23:48:26] <firc518fedeb> argg hard to open it on the internet without a look at logs :(
• 3284[23:48:42] <firc518fedeb> but thanks for trying to help
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• 3288[23:50:05] <jhutchins_wk> agio: I don't remember exactly, although I use it for monthly patching. I don't think you need it, I think nohup backgrounds, but again: man noup.
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• 3290[23:51:01] <agio> on my debian system - nohup doesn't background - in fact it doesn't seem to work at all
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• 3293[23:52:15] <agio> I'm guessing nohup is an artifact of historical terminals? (in which case the man page - written in 1979, before the creation of X window is irrevelevant)
• 3294[23:52:29] <jhutchins_wk> agio: Probably bad syntax. It's a venerable and stable command with a lot of use over the years.
• 3295[23:52:49] <jhutchins_wk> agio: No, the man page is still relevant.
• 3296[23:53:02] <jhutchins_wk> agio: As I say, I use it regularly for patching.
• 3297[23:53:06] <agio> what is is actually supposed to do?
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• 3299[23:53:25] <agio> block the NOHUP signal from reaching the child process?
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• 3310[23:58:25] <firc518fedeb> ok guys good night to you
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