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• 24[00:27:56] <RhineDevil> are there debian mirrors reachable through ssh:// for testing out there?
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• 30[00:32:51] <themill> RhineDevil: I don't know of any public mirror that has ever offered that
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• 33[00:34:37] <allan_wind> Dumb q, anyone have a recent reference on how to create dos bootable usb for a bios upgrade?
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• 36[00:36:32] <Brigo> allan_wind, unetbootin
• 37[00:37:20] <allan_wind> not in debian, right?
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• 40[00:38:05] <everdred> Hi everyone, I'm using Testing and I'm trying to find the matching kernel-headers package for an old kernel I still have installed: 5.8.0-3-amd64
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• 42[00:38:33] <everdred> Any tips on how to find it? Normal package search is coming up empty.
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• 45[00:40:30] <Brigo> allan_wind, don't think so.
• 46[00:40:42] <Brigo> kernels
• 47[00:41:01] <Brigo> everdred, outdated packages are stored in snapshot.debian.org
• 48[00:41:03] <Brigo> !kernels
• 49[00:41:05] <dpkg> Linux kernel versions, stable: 5.9.11, mainline: 5.10-rc5, stable 5.9: 5.9.11, stable 5.8: 5.8.18 (EOL), longterm 5.4: 5.4.80, longterm 4.19: 4.19.160, longterm 4.14: 4.14.209, longterm 4.9: 4.9.246, longterm 4.4: 4.4.246, linux-next: next-20201124
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• 51[00:42:40] <alex11> replaced-url
• 52[00:42:49] <Brigo> !kernel
• 53[00:42:51] <dpkg> Linux kernel versions, stable: 5.9.11, mainline: 5.10-rc5, stable 5.9: 5.9.11, stable 5.8: 5.8.18 (EOL), longterm 5.4: 5.4.80, longterm 4.19: 4.19.160, longterm 4.14: 4.14.209, longterm 4.9: 4.9.246, longterm 4.4: 4.4.246, linux-next: next-20201124
• 54[00:43:00] <Brigo> !debian kenels
• 55[00:43:00] <alex11> ,kernels
• 56[00:43:02] <judd> Available kernel versions are: experimental: 5.10.0-rc4-686-pae (5.10~rc4-1~exp1); sid: 5.9.0-3-686-pae (5.9.9-1); bullseye: 5.9.0-2-686-pae (5.9.6-1); buster-backports: 5.8.0-0.bpo.2-686 (5.8.10-1~bpo10+1); buster: 4.19.0-12-686-pae (4.19.152-1); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.9-686-pae (4.19.118-2+deb10u1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.19.0-0.bpo.12-686 (4.19.152-1~deb9u1); jessie-backports:
• 57[00:43:03] <judd> 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.12-686 (4.9.210-1+deb9u1~deb8u1)
• 58[00:43:40] <alex11> everdred, linked it above ^
• 59[00:44:33] <everdred> Brigo and alex11 - awesome, thank you both!
• 60[00:45:04] <alex11> bit confusing when 'source packages' are on top and you can't read
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• 65[00:47:44] <everdred> Speaking of can't read, I just spent a few minutes trying to figure out what the difference was between the two... turns out my eyes couldn't tell amd64 from arm64
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• 67[00:49:03] <sney> !5.8
• 68[00:49:03] <dpkg> To revert a bullseye/sid system to a 5.8 kernel, add the following to /etc/apt/sources.list and then run 'apt update;apt install linux-image-5.8.0-3-amd64 linux-headers-5.8.0-3-amd64': deb [check-valid-until=no] replaced-url
• 69[00:49:28] <alex11> haha
• 70[00:49:39] <sney> common enough because of the nvidia thing
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• 73[00:53:58] <everdred> In my case though, a VirtualBox thing
• 74[00:54:28] <sney> I thought I heard oracle fixed theirs. but in any case, yeah
• 75[00:56:27] <Brigo> pretty neat that !5.8
• 76[00:57:11] <everdred> Brigo, wow, I'm glad I mentioned VB to you.
• 77[00:57:41] <everdred> Didn't think to check for a new version. I should try that first!
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• 80[00:58:29] <Brigo> everdred, did you? i don't remember.
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• 82[00:59:35] <everdred> Sorry, meant sney!
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• 84[01:00:04] <everdred> weechat on my phone, usernames in dark blue on black
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• 173[02:59:24] <queip> how to see serial number and other info of USB pen drive?
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• 180[03:07:56] <quadrathoch2> queip look into the options of lsusb
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• 182[03:08:14] <quadrathoch2> or do you mean a gui?
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• 188[03:13:54] <queip> quadrathoch2: ok lsusb -v does it. I thought there is more specialized too. but it seems hdparm fails often on such pendrives and alike
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• 198[03:29:38] <gry> queip: would you like to report a bug to hdparm?
• 199[03:30:39] <sney> hdparm is specifically about sata/ide drives, usb drives are out of scope
• 200[03:30:45] <sney> smart usually can't read over usb either
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• 290[05:31:11] <mason> SMART can't read over USB, you can't TRIM over USB. USB makes me sad with my current predilections.
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• 326[06:20:51] <quadrathoch2> mason there are usb devices which support trim replaced-url
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• 336[06:47:53] <solrize> i'd rather have a drive with enough overcapacity to not need trim.... drives always get full
• 337[06:48:37] <quadrathoch2> idk, but I do a lot of writing and deleting, so I couldn't live without trim
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• 339[06:50:08] <solrize> trim means the nominal capacity is close enough to the raw capacity that the drive has to thrash around a lot if it thinks most of the nominal blocks are allocated... that is solved by having more spare blocks above the nominal capacity. so enterprise drives usually don't have trim, b/c they don't need it
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• 341[06:51:16] <solrize> replaced-url
• 342[06:51:52] <solrize> but yeah sth like that would need trim if you were deleting a lot and the drive was mostly not full
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• 344[06:53:45] <quadrathoch2> eh, I stay away from sandisk
• 345[06:55:15] <solrize> probably wise
• 346[06:55:38] <quadrathoch2> as I am using btrfs, sandisk is really bad, as their fw is crap
• 347[06:57:12] <solrize> intel fw was the best back in the day, probably not any more though
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• 349[06:57:29] <quadrathoch2> they sold their nand devision :/
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• 352[06:58:37] <solrize> oh yes there is also that
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• 400[07:55:22] <budlight> hello
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• 475[09:15:58] <quadrathoch2> ,v bind
• 476[09:15:59] <judd> Package: bind on amd64 -- experimental: 1:9.13.3-1+b1
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• 478[09:16:08] <quadrathoch2> ,v bind9
• 479[09:16:09] <judd> Package: bind9 on amd64 -- jessie: 1:9.9.5.dfsg-9+deb8u15; jessie-security: 1:9.9.5.dfsg-9+deb8u19; stretch: 1:9.10.3.dfsg.P4-12.3+deb9u6; stretch-proposed-updates: 1:9.10.3.dfsg.P4-12.3+deb9u6; stretch-security: 1:9.10.3.dfsg.P4-12.3+deb9u6; stretch-backports: 1:9.11.5.P4+dfsg-5~bpo9+1; buster: 1:9.11.5.P4+dfsg-5.1+deb10u2; buster-security: 1:9.11.5.P4+dfsg-5.1+deb10u2; buster-
• 480[09:16:10] <judd> backports: 1:9.16.8-1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 1:9.16.8-1; sid: 1:9.16.8-1
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• 508[09:29:40] <Franciman> Hi, I'm trying to compile a custom debian kernel, I run make oldconfig, so I inherit debian's configuration, but then I want to disable module signing
• 509[09:30:18] <Franciman> so I run scripts/config --disable MODULE_SIG
• 510[09:30:31] <Franciman> then I run make deb-pkg
• 511[09:30:43] <Franciman> but the MODULE_SIG gets re-enabled after a make clean is performed.
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• 513[09:31:00] <Franciman> So how to permanently disable it? Or alternatively, where should I get the signing keys to make it work?
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• 521[09:49:26] <ksk> Franciman: grep for "CONFIG_MODULE_SIG" in your kernel.config?
• 522[09:49:35] <ksk> and set that to "no"?
• 523[09:49:39] <Franciman> I do that
• 524[09:49:44] <Franciman> but when I run make deb-pkg
• 525[09:49:47] <Franciman> a make clean is performed
• 526[09:49:56] <Franciman> and my change to the .config file gets reverted
• 527[09:49:59] <Franciman> lol
• 528[09:50:26] <ksk> might that be related to you having anything enabled wich needs this option?
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• 530[09:52:41] <Franciman> hmm let me check
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• 548[10:24:28] <Franciman> ksk, how can I see what option needs this option?
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• 563[10:44:49] <ross`> Can someone help me, I have exhausted everything I can find online. I'm trying to get cubeadm working on debian buster. I've tried both on the physical host and a libvert/qemu kvm vm. I have the same issue. Things I've ensured: swapoff, sysctl.conf settings, docker/kubelet matching cgroup-driver (tried both cfgroupfs and systemd). I'm completely confused. Here is how kubelet is failing:
• 564[10:44:55] <ross`> replaced-url
• 565[10:45:05] <ross`> Here is my kubeadm init output: replaced-url
• 566[10:45:17] <ross`> Here is my docker info: replaced-url
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• 568[10:45:26] <ross`> Here are my kube dpkg versions: replaced-url
• 569[10:47:05] <ratrace> ross`: seen this? replaced-url
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• 572[10:49:37] <jelly> ross`: can you show more of that log, as in from start of the service onwards?
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• 575[10:54:49] <ross`> ratrace: My errors are really really similar that that person's errors with the exception of his docker errors. My journalctl shows flawless docker with no errors at all.
• 576[10:55:20] <ross`> ratrace: er.. Referencing Shridharbhandar who commented about 5 hours ago.
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• 579[10:59:43] <ross`> jelly: Nov 25 02:56:31 k8 kubelet[17444]: created by k8s.io/kubernetes/vendor/github.com/google/cadvisor/container/raw.(*rawContainerWatcher).Start
• 580[10:59:46] <ross`> oops
• 581[10:59:55] <ross`> jelly: replaced-url
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• 591[11:08:11] <ksk> ross`: which docker version are you utilizing? Not the one in Debian, I hope..
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• 594[11:08:25] <ksk> if so: Try with "docker-ce" from upstream.
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• 605[11:12:07] <ross`> ksk: I'm using 5:19.03.13~3-0~debian-buster
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• 607[11:12:23] <ross`> I followed the instructions on the docker website
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• 609[11:13:10] <ross`> docker-ce | 5:19.03.13~3-0~debian-buster | replaced-url
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• 611[11:16:47] <ross`> I'm pretty sure that I'm using the latest everything that's recommended for upstream/debian for kube* and docker
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• 616[11:18:59] <ksk> kk, that seems correct.
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• 622[11:23:49] <ross`> This is really puzzling. I would expect a clearer error if I had misconfigured anything.
• 623[11:24:56] <ksk> ross`: in your last pasting the first line looking like something is wrong might be: Nov 25 02:56:31 k8 kubelet[17444]: W1125 02:56:31.306274 17444 cni.go:239] Unable to update cni config: no networks found in /etc/cni/net.d
• 624[11:25:01] <ksk> so maybe check that?
• 625[11:25:44] <jelly> ross`: first error is Nov 25 02:56:31 k8 kubelet[17444]: E1125 02:56:31.317214 17444 reflector.go:127] k8s.io/client-go/informers/factory.go:134: Failed to watch *v1.Service: failed to list *v1.Service: Get "replaced-url
• 626[11:26:34] <jelly> which service is supposed to be running on that host:ip?
• 627[11:26:52] <ross`> none, I'm doing the initial deploy here
• 628[11:27:23] <ross`> Looks like it's failing to connect to the api server as it should though because the API server isnt started until later
• 629[11:28:09] <jelly> perhaps it should be started sooner?
• 630[11:28:19] <ross`> That's up to the scripts
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• 632[11:28:38] <ross`> In theory they both start connecting to eachother at the same time and will fail until they connect but they retry
• 633[11:28:48] <ksk> the k8s api would be listening there, to my understanding.
• 634[11:28:51] <ross`> They don't fail on the first try
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• 636[11:30:19] <ksk> ross`: not that you asked, but I have had success utlizing minikube for my k8s testing needs.
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• 645[11:35:22] <ross`> ksk: minikube also failing
• 646[11:35:53] <jelly> ross`: figure out why it's not starting in time/at all
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• 648[11:36:57] <ksk> ross`: checkout k8s channels, maybe?
• 649[11:37:00] <ross`> jelly: I'm not sure, I've never gotten kubernetes working before. I really don't think it's me though
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• 651[11:37:11] <ross`> ksk: Yeah, I posted in #google-containers first
• 652[11:37:28] <ksk> for me it was basicly: setting up three centos virtualxbox vms, set that as my k8s nodes in config, do minikube init or whatever
• 653[11:37:45] <ksk> granted, I did not try k8s on debian yet.
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• 666[11:44:05] <ross`> ksk: minikube native failed but minicube docker seems to work
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• 671[11:49:41] <Brigo> ,v kodi
• 672[11:49:42] <judd> Package: kodi on amd64 -- stretch: 2:17.1+dfsg1-3; buster: 2:17.6+dfsg1-4+b1; sid: 2:18.8+dfsg1-2; experimental: 2:19.0~alpha3+dfsg1-1; stretch-multimedia: 5:17.6-dmo1+deb9u3; buster-multimedia: 5:18.9-dmo0+deb10u1; bullseye-multimedia: 5:18.9-dmo1; sid-multimedia: 5:18.9-dmo1
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• 719[12:39:36] <lt> hey guys I can't recall what was a website name for posting text online paste.it or post.it .. Does anyone aware of right name of that?
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• 721[12:41:02] <lt> it seems gone already anyway
• 722[12:41:24] <lt> I'm having trouble trying to install my first AppImage on debian buster replaced-url
• 723[12:41:24] <EdePopede> !paste
• 724[12:41:24] <dpkg> Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: replaced-url
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• 727[12:44:07] <EdePopede> and some more replaced-url
• 728[12:44:27] <EdePopede> but: pastebin.com sucks, ubuntu's sucks.
• 729[12:45:36] <lt> yep that is the one EdePopede pastbin.com :)))
• 730[12:45:51] <EdePopede> scripting, cookies.
• 731[12:45:56] <tcurdt> Why on earth is ". /lib/lsb/init-functions" stopping the execution of old non-systemd init.d style script?
• 732[12:46:20] <tcurdt> I really don't understand how the two worlds are integrated
• 733[12:47:02] *** Joins: psych094 (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
• 734[12:48:20] <tcurdt> Still the service gets started - no matter what I do to the rest of the init.d script
• 735[12:48:27] * tcurdt is confused
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• 737[12:49:52] <Franciman> hi, how can I see all kernel modules currently loaded?
• 738[12:49:57] <Franciman> both loadable and builtin
• 739[12:50:10] <Franciman> ehm it's better to say currently in use
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• 741[12:51:10] <EdePopede> Franciman: lsmod
• 742[12:51:36] <Franciman> it shows both builtin and loadable modules?
• 743[12:51:39] <Franciman> or only loadable ones?
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• 750[12:57:22] <lt> however , my main question about appimage was not answered! can anyone "kindly" look to the output and tell me how can go about installing etcher on buster?
• 751[12:57:56] *** Quits: fachinformatiker (~fachinfor@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 752[12:58:25] <EdePopede> hm. manpage is a stub and modprobe lists a filename for all i checked
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• 757[13:00:08] <EdePopede> lt: replaced-url
• 758[13:00:24] <jelly> Franciman: if the functionality is built in, it's not a module
• 759[13:00:27] <EdePopede> has been posted yesterday, i read i bit after it.
• 760[13:00:55] <EdePopede> they're even blaming Debian for caring about security
• 761[13:01:06] *** Parts: funnyhex89 (~root@replaced-ip) ()
• 762[13:01:09] <Franciman> ah I see
• 763[13:01:21] <Franciman> then how can I know which drivers my system is using?
• 764[13:01:27] <Franciman> effectively using*
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• 768[13:04:59] <jelly> Franciman: you can't really. You can know which are used if they're built as modules. You can also infer some things from contents of /sys
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• 770[13:05:19] <jelly> debian builds _most_ drivers as modules but not all.
• 771[13:05:45] <Franciman> hmm I see, thanks
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• 773[13:06:32] <Franciman> jelly, but if a driver is a module, it's marked as M, in the kernel config, right?
• 774[13:06:43] <Franciman> in this case I should be able to build that module alone, right?
• 775[13:06:44] <jelly> yes
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• 777[13:07:04] <Franciman> I don't want to rebuild the full kernel
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• 779[13:07:20] <jelly> Franciman: do you have an actual issue to solve?
• 780[13:07:22] <Franciman> but I don't understand how to compile that module alone
• 781[13:07:27] <tcurdt> how can I exclude some packages from an "apt-get -V dist-upgrade"?
• 782[13:07:28] <Franciman> yes, I need to enable debug for ath10k
• 783[13:07:52] <tcurdt> can I mark some packages as "do not touch"?
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• 788[13:10:12] <tcurdt> apt-mark hold?
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• 792[13:14:30] <jelly> !hold
• 793[13:14:31] <dpkg> hold is a status flag that tells the package manager to not automatically upgrade a package. To hold a package 'echo $package hold|dpkg --set-selections' or 'aptitude hold $package'. Note that prior to <stretch> "aptitude hold" is ignored by other package managers and aptitude won't necessarily use holds set with dpkg; see Debian bug #137771. See also <hold list>, <unhold>.
• 794[13:15:12] <tcurdt> seems to do the job
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• 800[13:24:23] <rootkea> Probably not a right channel but I recently started using Onboard on-screen keyboard. In Preferences > Universal Access I see "Enable keyboard scanning". What is keyboard scanning exactly? Thanks!
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• 805[13:26:49] <jelly> rootkea: looking at replaced-url
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• 810[13:33:00] <rootkea> jelly, Thanks! But honestly I don't think I understood that well enough to make sense of these "Scanner Settings" replaced-url
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• 813[13:34:57] <tcurdt> anyone here running buster without systemd? I close to trying it
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• 815[13:36:36] <n4dir> not sure if was buster or the release before, but i tried and it kinda worked
• 816[13:37:25] <n4dir> distros like antix do that out of box, iirc
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• 820[13:41:04] <tcurdt> reading a bit it sounds like a pain. it would better to go with a distro that has it either more flexible or uses something else entirely
• 821[13:41:52] <n4dir> i don't recall it being a pain
• 822[13:42:14] <n4dir> the bot has info about it, but i sure forgot what it was.
• 823[13:42:17] <n4dir> !sysv
• 824[13:42:29] <tcurdt> no idea, they were talking about package deps
• 825[13:42:51] <tcurdt> some not installable without systemd
• 826[13:42:54] <tcurdt> no idea
• 827[13:43:17] <tcurdt> maybe I give the systemd mess another try before I go down that route
• 828[13:43:39] <n4dir> well, in my opinion it is also better to go straight for something like antix, if you want debian based. But where is the fun in that? :-)
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• 830[13:44:22] <n4dir> Void worked well for me, though rolling release.
• 831[13:44:59] <tcurdt> I will check antix out ... although the system is a diepi system
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• 833[13:45:02] <tcurdt> dietpi
• 834[13:45:04] <n4dir> but in the end you will pretty much everywhere miss the huge debian repos.
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• 836[13:45:14] <tcurdt> yup
• 837[13:46:02] <tcurdt> I just wish the systemd move in debian had been a little bit more optional from the beginning
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• 839[13:46:23] <tcurdt> problems problems problems
• 840[13:47:19] <ratrace> you can still run debian without systemd....
• 841[13:47:22] <n4dir> some think this way, some say just the opposite.
• 842[13:47:53] <ratrace> the official debian distro stance is that it supports multiple inits, meaning you can swap one for another
• 843[13:48:12] <ratrace> the whole point of that last GR and to my dismay.... still a thing, sitting on both chairs, supporting neither init fully and properly.
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• 845[13:48:13] <n4dir> "support" is not the term they use, i think
• 846[13:48:28] <ratrace> pretty sure that's exactly the term that was in the GR poll
• 847[13:49:09] <tcurdt> I am really not religious and happy to learn new things ... but systemd has not been a good ride so far ... all I can say
• 848[13:49:34] <ratrace> this one won: replaced-url
• 849[13:49:54] <ratrace> tcurdt: you're using it wrong then :)
• 850[13:50:29] <ratrace> occasional minor bug aside, most if not all systemd problems accross dozens of servers and desktops I manage, come from poor distro default configurations, and are easly fixable.
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• 852[13:50:45] <n4dir> and you read that as "support" ?
• 853[13:50:55] <ratrace> these defaults are especially atrocious in debian due to multiple init support
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• 855[13:51:40] <ratrace> n4dir: the "support" part is in that debian avoids taking advantage of full systemd features, so that users of other inits wouldn't be affected
• 856[13:52:12] <tcurdt> ratrace: that may well be the case that it's me - but some things are so weird that it is too much brain fck for me.
• 857[13:52:21] <ratrace> and officially, systemd is removable from the pid 1 position, still in buster, afaik
• 858[13:53:09] <tcurdt> ratrace: I've removed services. rebooted - and still they started. that's one WTF
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• 861[13:53:39] <ratrace> tcurdt: removed how?
• 862[13:55:07] *** Joins: Space_Man (~Space_Man@replaced-ip)
• 863[13:55:08] <tcurdt> removed their serivice files in /etc/systemd and a systemctl daemon-reload
• 864[13:55:31] <ratrace> tcurdt: but leaving vendor defined units in /lib ? :)
• 865[13:56:35] <ratrace> packages (vendors) install units under /usr/lib/systemd/system/ . Overrides go under /etc either as drop-ins or full units. Removing those would just leave vendor defaults under /usr/lib/
• 866[13:56:51] <tcurdt> oh boy
• 867[13:57:45] *** Quits: bachler (~bachler@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 868[13:57:58] <tcurdt> who came up with that idea? debian or systemd?
• 869[13:58:04] <ratrace> it's actually a very sane design, this part. allows for specific setups with readonly or fully immutable filesystems.
• 870[13:58:09] *** foolish is now known as nyuszika7h
• 871[13:58:10] <ratrace> that's systemd's design
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• 873[13:59:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1184
• 874[14:00:29] <avu> if you just read the docs or searched using your favorite engine, you would have found the simple command used to disable services ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
• 875[14:00:47] <avu> just assuming how something works without actually trying to find out often doesn't work
• 876[14:00:51] <tcurdt> ratrace: what's the difference between "openvpn@.service" and "openvpn.service
• 877[14:00:59] <tcurdt> avu: I didn't want to disable services
• 878[14:01:04] <tcurdt> I wanted to remove them
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• 880[14:01:12] <ratrace> the former is a template allowing multiple run-time dynamic services based on it
• 881[14:01:28] <avu> tcurdt: then uninstall the package?
• 882[14:01:44] <avu> tcurdt: or make sure you understand what "disable" means in this context
• 883[14:01:56] <ratrace> tcurdt: are they packaged services you're trying to remove?
• 884[14:02:42] *** Joins: cadmio (~barney@replaced-ip)
• 885[14:02:45] <cadmio> hello
• 886[14:02:50] <cadmio> I get is registered. Please choose a different nickname, or identify via /msg NickServ identify <password>.
• 887[14:02:50] <cadmio> * #debian :Canno
• 888[14:02:55] <cadmio> sorrry
• 889[14:03:10] <cadmio> CMake Error at cmake/gen_manual.cmake:10 (message): pandoc not found
• 890[14:03:31] <cadmio> I've installed this sudo apt-get install libghc-pandoc-dev --no-install-recommends
• 891[14:03:32] <ratrace> what!
• 892[14:03:54] <cadmio> but without success!
• 893[14:04:26] <jelly> cadmio: why did you use --no-install-recommends ?
• 894[14:04:36] <cadmio> I don't need docs
• 895[14:04:37] <ratrace> cadmio: are you trying to compile some custom software that requires pandoc headers?
• 896[14:04:49] <cadmio> yes
• 897[14:04:52] <jelly> and also why are you surprised things broke after you used it
• 898[14:05:03] <ratrace> cadmio: maybe you should adjust that softare's include path?
• 899[14:05:05] <cadmio> replaced-url
• 900[14:05:13] <jelly> if you don't need docs, fix the build process not to make docs.
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• 903[14:06:19] <ratrace> btw, the recommended packages for libghc-pandoc-dev seem important.... like.... the libtool thingy
• 904[14:06:30] <ratrace> (I see no "docs" there tho)
• 905[14:06:43] <jelly> it sounds more like cmake cannot find the "pandoc" tool rather than any headers
• 906[14:07:28] <jelly> ,v bin/pandoc
• 907[14:07:28] <ratrace> something the pkg-config, the recommended package for libghc-pandoc-dev, would fix? :)
• 908[14:07:28] <judd> No package named 'bin/pandoc' was found in amd64.
• 909[14:07:32] <jelly> ,file bin/pandoc
• 910[14:07:37] <judd> Search for bin/pandoc in buster/amd64: pandoc: usr/bin/pandoc
• 911[14:07:56] <cadmio> so is libghc-pandoc-dev useless?
• 912[14:08:51] <tcurdt> ratrace: when "find /lib/systemd /etc/systemd -name "*servicename*" does not find anything ... but still the service starts ... any further thoughts on why?
• 913[14:09:25] <themill> tcurdt: I don't know of anything in debian called "servicename".
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• 915[14:09:56] <ratrace> tcurdt: what servicename? if there's no actual service unit file for it, there's nothing to start
• 916[14:09:57] <jelly> cadmio: right now we can only say it fails to work when you intentionally omit installing some of the things it usually needs
• 917[14:09:57] <tcurdt> themill: it's a plasceholder - sorry if that wasn't obvious
• 918[14:10:09] <themill> tcurdt: it was obvious and it's also unhelpful.
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• 920[14:10:49] <ratrace> tcurdt: and if _something_ starts, you've been looking at the wrong unit filename
• 921[14:10:53] <themill> tcurdt: irc is good at solving problems, it's bad at reading man pages for you. Solving problems needs concrete details.
• 922[14:11:44] <tcurdt> themill: lovely tone
• 923[14:12:00] <themill> says the person ranting about systemd.
• 924[14:13:54] <tcurdt> themill: you will notice me ranting when I actually do ;)
• 925[14:14:55] <ratrace> so what's the service name and which unit file exactly are you looking for?
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• 928[14:16:44] <vuoristoneuvos> tcurdt: do you should find the running services list by just running `systemctl`. Then running `systemctl status SERVICENAME` shows the related unit file
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• 931[14:25:01] <tcurdt> ratrace: replaced-url
• 932[14:26:20] <tcurdt> vuoristoneuvos: that's for that pointer ... IIUC the service is generated from the /etc/init.d file then
• 933[14:26:43] <jelly> judd: file transmission-daemon.service
• 934[14:26:47] <judd> Search for transmission-daemon.service in buster/amd64: transmission-daemon: lib/systemd/system/transmission-daemon.service
• 935[14:28:14] <tcurdt> as shown in the gist I removed that file
• 936[14:28:23] <jelly> tcurdt: the generated service unit should be under /run/systemd
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• 939[14:29:12] <jelly> tcurdt: which file did you remove and to what end?
• 940[14:29:16] <ratrace> yet another example of poor distro defaults... there's still init scripts ; so you think you're removing the service unit only to get bitten by the generated unit based on the initscript...
• 941[14:29:30] <jelly> ratrace: masking would have worked.
• 942[14:29:56] <ratrace> yes. so we come to the XY problem now, as you asked, what's the end gaol
• 943[14:30:09] <jelly> and what you call poor defaults makes some people be able to use Debian at all, we've been over this
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• 945[14:30:32] <ratrace> those people can happily migrate to devuan, which exists precisely for that reason
• 946[14:30:43] <jelly> fuck devuan
• 947[14:30:54] <jelly> or any other derivative, no thanks
• 948[14:31:01] <last1> what's the best way to ensure a service is always running ? and if it stops, to restart it ?
• 949[14:31:42] <ratrace> last1: with a properly configured service unit
• 950[14:32:21] <n4dir> harsh words, not sure what called for it
• 951[14:32:29] <jelly> ratrace: is it that hard to accept there are Debian users with focus slightly different than yours
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• 953[14:32:54] <last1> ratrace: I want to make sure service clamav-daemon is always up
• 954[14:33:01] <last1> I installed from packages
• 955[14:33:01] <jelly> n4dir: ratrace not being able to grok the current compromise
• 956[14:33:02] <ratrace> jelly: I'll just quote you: "best tool for the job". so if the tool they want is sysv ... use a sysv-specific tool then.
• 957[14:33:23] <jelly> ratrace: yes tool, not the whole distro
• 958[14:33:23] <ratrace> the current compromise is carp. sittin on both chairs and neither of them done properly
• 959[14:33:31] <taman> last1, there's also monit and other process-babysitting things, dunno which would be considered 'best'.
• 960[14:33:37] <n4dir> jelly: i meant the fuck derivates comment. With no more debian derivates linux distros would be half as much. :-)
• 961[14:33:49] <jelly> n4dir: I'm fine with that.
• 962[14:34:39] <n4dir> ah, well. My fault then.
• 963[14:34:43] <ratrace> last1: if the service unit doesn't already include options like Restart=on-failure, you can add them as well as some tuning that goes along
• 964[14:34:51] <ratrace> jelly: distro _is_ a tool
• 965[14:35:07] <themill> ratrace: precisely what would you do differently? systemd-only distros still ship systemd-sysv-generator.
• 966[14:35:31] <ratrace> themill: I'd supply proper service unit and remove the initscript
• 967[14:37:03] <last1> clamav-daemon comes with a script in /etc/init.d
• 968[14:37:08] <last1> should I remove that ?
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• 971[14:38:20] <jmcnaught> last1: you can "systemctl edit clamav-daemon.service" (which creates a drop-in at /etc/systemd/systemd/clamav-daemon.service.d/override.conf) and add a section [Service] with a Restart= directive. "man systemd.service" for how to use Restart=
• 972[14:38:27] <jmcnaught> last1: no need to remove the initscript
• 973[14:38:52] <ratrace> last1: no; it also comes with /lib/systemd/system/clamav-daemon.service, so you can ... what jmcnaught said
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• 976[14:40:18] <jmcnaught> last1: probably Restart=always is what you want, but there are other options.
• 977[14:40:23] <jelly> ratrace: well, your option makes _others_ use a different distro; why not apply that logic to yourself and pick a distro that supports systemd better.
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• 980[14:40:48] <tcurdt> the autogenerated service really tripped me up ... now it works as expected ... thanks for the help
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• 984[14:45:00] <last1> do I need a pid file for this to work ?
• 985[14:45:08] <last1> because it seems clamd doesn't generate one
• 986[14:45:53] <ratrace> jelly: well I _am_ actually applying that logic :)
• 987[14:46:27] <jmcnaught> last1: probably not, systemd is pretty good at tracking PIDs. If the service was Type=forking maybe, but it does not appear to be.
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• 989[14:48:12] <jmcnaught> last1: I use this to make sure that my openvpn connection restarts: replaced-url
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• 991[14:51:16] <last1> and type = forking since it runs in background, right ?
• 992[14:52:20] <jmcnaught> last1: you should not need to add Type=forking unless you know that it is needed, the maintainer or upstream would probably add that if necessary.
• 993[14:54:12] <last1> alright, thx
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• 1003[15:02:39] <jelly> love me some grilled freedom
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• 1011[15:09:24] <srm> Ahoi! Writing ansible roles to configure/install perl on debian and centos. Looking at redhat, there is a yum package for perl-devel and perl-CPAN. What are the coresponding packages in debain (stretch)?
• 1012[15:09:49] <srm> perl-devel is described in yum as "header files and development modules. Most perl packages will need this to build"
• 1013[15:10:07] <srm> s/debain/debian
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• 1016[15:13:32] <ratrace> srm: libperl-dev methinks
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• 1018[15:14:09] <ksk> Yap, that sounds reasonable.
• 1019[15:14:37] <wanko> why do kernel-headers go up to 4.19.0-0 only? where do I get headers for 5.9.0.2-amd64? i'm trying to compile replaced-url
• 1020[15:16:32] <srm> ratrace: thanks!
• 1021[15:16:33] <wanko> i tried linking ln -s /usr/src/linux-headers-4.19.0-10-amd64/ /lib/modules/5.9.0-2-amd64/build but then the built module has errors and won't load
• 1022[15:16:35] <ratrace> wanko: because that's the only package-supported kernel headers version in Stable. 5.9 is in bullseye/sid
• 1023[15:17:03] <wanko> ratrace: i upgraded to testing, why do i have the stable linux headers
• 1024[15:17:22] <ratrace> botched the upgrade?
• 1025[15:17:31] <wanko> wow
• 1026[15:17:33] <ratrace> anyhoo:
• 1027[15:17:35] <ratrace> !debian-next
• 1028[15:17:36] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also replaced-url
• 1029[15:17:55] <wanko> okay cool thanks
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• 1065[15:55:18] <deadrom> hi
• 1066[15:56:10] <deadrom> when a program writes to stderr/stdout, and I disown it in bash and close the terminal - where do the messages go? Detroit?
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• 1078[16:08:25] <nkuttler> deadrom: did you try it?
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• 1088[16:12:33] <deadrom> nkuttler, yes, but I don't know anyone in Detroit.
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• 1092[16:14:25] <jelly> deadrom: lsof -np pidhere output is most instructive. file descriptors 0, 1 and 2 correspond to stdin, stdout and stderr respectively
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• 1097[16:19:27] <tcurdt> now I have the problem that systemd is starting openvpn twice (with different params) :-/ ... seems like one is coming from /lib/systemd/system/openvpn@.service and mine at /etc/systemd/system/openvpn.service
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• 1112[16:30:27] <ctcx> I'm using this replaced-url
• 1113[16:30:40] <ctcx> to boot Debian from an ISO placed on a USB partition.
• 1114[16:30:54] <ctcx> Already downloaded the hd-media initrd and kernel.
• 1115[16:30:56] <ctcx> It works.
• 1116[16:31:03] <ctcx> But I have a doubt.
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• 1118[16:32:20] <ctcx> The shared/enter_device option receives a block device as parameter, not a mounted partition.
• 1119[16:32:44] <ctcx> Yet, it somehow is able to find the installer ISO there.
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• 1121[16:33:17] <ctcx> How is it possible? Is the block device mounted at some point?
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• 1123[16:35:07] <tcurdt> ok, so I removed my /etc/systemd/system/openvpn.service and just using /lib/systemd/system/openvpn@.service seems to work
• 1124[16:35:31] <ksk> ctcx: what are you trying to do? Just installing Debian from an usbstick?
• 1125[16:35:53] <ksk> !usb install
• 1126[16:35:53] <dpkg> You can install Debian from a USB stick/thumbdrive/pen drive/key on x86 systems, as long as your system's BIOS can boot from USB. Details are in the Installation Guide, see replaced-url
• 1127[16:36:09] <ctcx> ksk: installing Debian from a multiboot USB
• 1128[16:36:15] <ksk> (casicly it is "cat debian.iso > /dev/your-usb-stick")
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• 1130[16:37:37] <ksk> As far as I know "Multiboot USB" is not something great by design.
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• 1132[16:39:05] <ctcx> ksk: why?
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• 1134[16:40:23] <tcurdt> "systemctl status openvpn@foo" reports the correct thing - but why does "systemctl status openvpn" report "active (exited)"?
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• 1136[16:41:05] <ksk> ctcx: I dont really know, sorry. If I had to guess: Because BIOS is a really old concept, and Debian builds its images for a context without "multiboot".
• 1137[16:41:31] <ksk> I have seen working multiboot sticks, but also people coming in here, and not finding a solution and/or being discouraged by people in here.
• 1138[16:42:14] <dob1> someone use taskwarrior? can I know what I modify/insert in a day (today for example) ?
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• 1144[16:45:01] <ctcx> In that case it's fortunate that I didn't come here to discuss multiboot.
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• 1146[16:45:20] <ctcx> The only thing I want to know is, how the heck does shared/enter_device work?
• 1147[16:45:33] <ctcx> How can it read the actual partition, when it is a block device?
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• 1158[16:58:54] <packagecompare> Hello all. Is anyone using Nagios to monitor their systems? I am having trouble comprehending if my system is in need of more ram or not. These are my numbers: MiB Mem : 20074.5 total, 183.9 free, 3627.5 used, 16263.1 buff/cache
• 1159[16:59:14] <sney> that looks fine
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• 1161[16:59:25] <sney> see linuxatemyram.com for explanation of memory cache on linux
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• 1163[16:59:57] <packagecompare> My swap is: MiB Swap: 5016.0 total, 861.4 free, 4154.6 used. 16077.3 avail Mem
• 1164[17:01:09] <packagecompare> Nagios is freaking out over my free percentage on the Swap
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• 1167[17:01:35] <sney> then you should adjust your thresholds to match your system
• 1168[17:01:51] <sney> default check thresholds are not considered universal, it's normal to have to tweak them a bit
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• 1171[17:04:26] <ctcx> The only thing I want to know is, how the heck does shared/enter_device work?
• 1172[17:05:40] <sney> grub can read inside hardware partitions, obviously. how else would it boot your system?
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• 1178[17:08:47] <ctcx> So grub can directly read stuff inside /dev/sdb1 *without* actually mounting it?
• 1179[17:08:56] <ctcx> WTH?
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• 1181[17:09:32] <sney> yep, same as it can read stuff inside debian-10.6.0-netinst.iso without 'mounting' it either. that is more or less a bootloader's job
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• 1183[17:11:32] <ctcx> So grub can, but once I'm within the OS itself, I cannot do that directly and have to *mount*?
• 1184[17:11:48] <sney> on an installed debian system, grub has to find the location of your kernel and initrd before *anything else* happens. if you go into the grub console, you can actually open the disks and look at them. I don't remember the exact syntax, I think it's 'use' and then there are some generic cd, ls commands
• 1185[17:12:45] <ksk> ctcx: GRUB is running before the kernel, so yes, it needs to be able to access devices on its own.
• 1186[17:13:04] <sney> I'm not sure what technical difference there is between grub using files inside a partition, and e.g. linux mounting that same partition read-only, there may not be any.
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• 1191[17:15:21] <ratrace> except grub not doing the whole VFS mappings and transformations
• 1192[17:15:34] <ratrace> it's a dumb reader of predetermined formats
• 1193[17:15:43] <ratrace> "dumb" as in simplistic
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• 1199[17:20:30] <ctcx> ksk, sney: when reading this replaced-url
• 1200[17:20:43] <ctcx> A symlink pointing to /dev/sda1
• 1201[17:20:51] <ctcx> ls /dev/sda1
• 1202[17:21:00] <ctcx> Just gave /dev/sda1 itself.
• 1203[17:21:30] <ctcx> So perhaps you're right: it's not the same while inside Debian than on grub...
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• 1206[17:24:36] <ratrace> "in debian" and "on grub" are vague, meaningless terms. perhaps if you precisely defined the environments, it would explain itself by mere virtue of that
• 1207[17:24:53] <ratrace> (it = the difference between them)
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• 1212[17:29:26] <ice9> I need to know the "Fn" key produce output in `xev`, can anyone with laptop confirm this please?
• 1213[17:29:39] <ice9> *if*
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• 1216[17:30:39] <ctcx> sney: no wait a moment... shared/enter_device is a parameter that is passed to Debian installer initrd. Grub loads kernel and initrd. Once done, it is initrd the one running, not grub anymore!
• 1217[17:30:54] <ctcx> So init script is also able to directly read block devices without mounting?
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• 1220[17:31:23] <sney> I think there's some fundamental confusion here, so I'm just going to say "yes" and leave it there.
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• 1229[17:36:07] <ratrace> ctcx: no, the initrd contains all the kernel modules and userland programs to actually mount (using teh mount binary, and syscall)
• 1230[17:37:10] <ratrace> in that those are the very same modules and programs you have once the boot completes.
• 1231[17:37:12] <ctcx> sney: I apologize to you for being annoying. The truth is, I'm a bit desperate with a project... I have last hours googling in search of help.
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• 1233[17:37:25] <ctcx> Could you help a bit in clearing my confusion?
• 1234[17:38:34] <ratrace> and what confusion is that precisely?
• 1235[17:40:36] <ctcx> The one sney said
• 1236[17:41:04] <ratrace> so you don't even know yourself what's confusing you?
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• 1238[17:41:15] <ratrace> how can we help if you can't tell what that problem is, even.
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• 1240[17:41:36] <ctcx> I'm trying to sort my damn messed mind right now.
• 1241[17:41:41] <scrul00se> ctcx: might I suggest that you back away from the details you think you need, and tell us what is the thing you're trying to accomplish...?
• 1242[17:42:21] <ctcx> scrul00se: the thing is I already accomplished what I needed. But I wanted to understand the "how it works".
• 1243[17:42:37] <scrul00se> And what was the thing?
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• 1245[17:42:54] <ctcx> This replaced-url
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• 1247[17:44:25] <teclo-> evening, I got something very weird
• 1248[17:44:45] <scrul00se> I think that has already been answered. GRUB has a simplistic and limited ability to look directly into block devices without mounting them. This works only if the structure inside conforms exactly to what GRUB expects.
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• 1250[17:45:02] <ratrace> ctcx: this is how it works. grub is loaded off the predefined location on the boot media in two or more stages depending whether it's MBR or GPT layout. then the sole purpose of grub is to locate the kernel and execute it. nothing more, nothing less. to do so it has the ability to _read_ from some storage formats like ext4, zfs, btrfs, and yes even an iso
• 1251[17:45:08] <teclo-> on my Debian GNU/Linux 10 workstation, if I choose memtest or memtest+ in GRUB... memtest never starts, I got a screen with the grub background and nothing... what is the next step ?
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• 1254[17:45:58] <ratrace> execing the kernel, it also passes to it various arguments, one of which is the initrd, a cpio that the kernel uncompresses into a virtual filesystem in memory and executes the /bin/init script inside it. the whole purpose of that script is to find and do what's necessary to mount the actual root filesystem, the one that becomes / and executes /bin/init on IT.
• 1255[17:46:47] <ratrace> that means that you technically don't even need an initrd, if the kernel itself has all the code, modules and facilities to mount and execute /sbin/init on the actual /
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• 1257[17:47:10] <ratrace> (and that's /sbin/init , not /bin/init)
• 1258[17:47:48] <ctcx> Yes, thanks for all that. I already understood grub can read block devices, and that its purpose is to load the kernel and initrd.
• 1259[17:48:00] <ratrace> so what, in this process, is confusing you?
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• 1261[17:48:34] <ratrace> teclo-: there is no next step. choosing memtest from the grub menu (and hitting enter to boot into it) should start the memtest
• 1262[17:50:23] <ctcx> Once it's done, it's inird the one currently running, not grub anymore. Initrd has already received the parameter shared/enter_device.
• 1263[17:50:51] <ctcx> My confusion is, is init script also capable of directly read block devices? Or does it actually mount it first?
• 1264[17:51:33] <ctcx> Somehow it's able to read the debian ISO which is within the partition block device...
• 1265[17:52:05] <ratrace> the init script inside intrd is literally a shell script. the initrd environmetn is literally the same as the / you boot into, but only with programs and files needed to find and mount the actual /
• 1266[17:53:16] <ratrace> think of it as a chroot with very limited functionality .. only the functionality neede to find and mount the actual root, find /sbin/init (systemd on modern distros) on it and basically execute it
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• 1269[17:55:48] <ctcx> ratrace: the shared/enter_device parameter gives a block device, such as /dev/sda1, etc. How is initrd able to read what's inside it? Does it mount it actually?
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• 1271[17:56:29] <teclo-> ratrace: yes :).. but it does not start
• 1272[17:57:02] <scrul00se> ctcx: In other words, once you get to the initrd stage, there's a minimal Linux system running, with the actual Linux kernel, mounting things in the normal Linux way.
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• 1275[17:58:06] <ratrace> teclo-: and otherwise you can normally boot?
• 1276[17:58:10] <teclo-> hmmm when grub is being set up it can find the memtest images
• 1277[17:58:12] <teclo-> Found memtest86 image: /boot/memtest86.bin
• 1278[17:58:12] <teclo-> Found memtest86+ image: /boot/memtest86+.bin
• 1279[17:58:33] <teclo-> ratrace: yes everything works very well ! It's puzzling :) ...
• 1280[17:59:14] <teclo-> because booting into Debian instead of booting into memtest needs a lot more operations: loading the initrd, starting init, that kind of stuff
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• 1285[18:02:16] <ratrace> ctcx: it contains all the tools required to do the iso scan and whatever else is needed, yes
• 1286[18:03:11] <ratrace> again, initrd is literally just like a chroot. anything you do in a chroot you can only do with programs being available there. it's a micro linux distribution running: the kernel and the userland.
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• 1291[18:05:19] <ctcx> Thanks all.
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• 1295[18:08:49] <ctcx> ratrace: so in the end, in the initrd running, the block device is actually *mounted* in order to be read
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• 1298[18:10:09] <ratrace> ctcx: if there's a filesystem involved, it's actually and literally mounted, yes, into a dir somewhre, typically /mnt/<something>
• 1299[18:10:27] <ratrace> (or loopback mounted for ISOs)
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• 1302[18:12:09] <ctcx> So that's how it reads the Debian iso when given the block device as parameter...
• 1303[18:14:14] <scrul00se> ctcx: also, be warned that "mounting" is a complex subject in its own right... block devices, partition tables, filesystems, loopback mounting of filesystem image files, bind mounting. It's one of those cases where a question can sound simple and straightforward but there's deep water right there below the surface.
• 1304[18:15:17] <ctcx> ouch
• 1305[18:16:46] <ratrace> well yes, but that's the case in "normal" environments. there's no difference there. the initrd's shell script would literally use mount(8)
• 1306[18:18:17] <ratrace> and I think losetup(8) is used for loopbacks .. though I'm not really sure how debian's initramfs was actually written in all that detail. point is, it's a regular, micro distribution with the sole purpose to find and mount the "real" root and exec /sbin/init
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• 1309[18:23:13] <scrul00se> True, yes. The progression of grub → initrd → full booted system is one thing, and the full complexity of FSes and mounting is largely outside the scope of that.
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• 1316[18:27:11] <f-a> a dev asks
• 1317[18:27:26] <f-a> «what is the processor/chipset that is handling graphics for you?»
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• 1319[18:27:34] <f-a> how can I get this info in debian?
• 1320[18:28:39] <sney> f-a: glxinfo if you're in xorg, you can also look at lspci to see your actual hardware devices
• 1321[18:29:10] <sney> xorg logs it as well so I'm sure wayland does too, somewhere
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• 1327[18:32:45] <f-a> super
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• 1358[19:02:54] <jelly> judd: rfp tauthon
• 1359[19:04:02] <jelly> it's "bug wnpp" and noone seems to want it (yet)
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• 1393[19:36:53] <horribleprogram> Hey guys, what's making me computer sleep
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• 1395[19:37:18] <sney> !idfma
• 1396[19:37:18] <dpkg> Insufficient Data For Meaningful Answer
• 1397[19:37:33] <horribleprogram> kk so i3wm, it's not i3lock, Debian 10
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• 1400[19:37:55] <horribleprogram> idk how I'd find out the program that is doing it
• 1401[19:38:59] <jmcnaught> horribleprogram: check journalctl
• 1402[19:38:59] <horribleprogram> systemctl doesn't really show anything
• 1403[19:39:06] <horribleprogram> jmcnaught:kk
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• 1405[19:39:11] <horribleprogram> gdm.service btw?
• 1406[19:39:22] <greycat> you're using i3wm + gdm?
• 1407[19:39:43] <horribleprogram> greycat: I mean it's loaded and running
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• 1410[19:40:03] <greycat> so... that's a yes? how unusual.
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• 1413[19:41:23] <horribleprogram> greycat: well maybe I wanted to do that for a reason
• 1414[19:41:31] <horribleprogram> greycat: before u judge me walk a mile in my shoes
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• 1417[19:42:02] <horribleprogram> also journalctl is quite hard to navigate
• 1418[19:42:10] <horribleprogram> how do I be like "yo show me only today
• 1419[19:42:14] <sney> or maybe this system began its life with a default gnome desktop, and then only the wm was changed
• 1420[19:42:18] <sney> that would be journalctl -b
• 1421[19:42:31] <jmcnaught> horribleprogram: -e skips to the end
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• 1428[19:44:18] <horribleprogram> yeah I see a bunch of /usr/libexec/gdm-x-session
• 1429[19:44:23] <horribleprogram> should I disable this?
• 1430[19:44:45] <horribleprogram> systemctl stop gdm; systemctl disable gdm
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• 1432[19:45:14] <jmcnaught> oops
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• 1434[19:48:27] <ratrace> some fine foot shootage there.
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• 1443[19:56:15] <horribleprogram> greycat: systemctl stop gdm basically shut off my screen I had to restart
• 1444[19:56:36] <horribleprogram> greycat: so i3 uses gdm .... :/ but ty for trolling me
• 1445[19:56:47] <greycat> I never said you should stop anything. I just pointed out that it's unusual for someone to use i3wm and gdm. Most i3 people would use lightdm, or startx.
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• 1447[19:57:15] <horribleprogram> w/e
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• 1449[19:58:05] <horribleprogram> so now that I know I use gdm
• 1450[19:58:10] <queip> "in linux you can mix and match programs, libs, envs and all!" also linuxers "<ratrace> some fine foot shootage there."
• 1451[19:58:15] <horribleprogram> i just go through gsettings?
• 1452[19:58:49] <horribleprogram> queip: i know but greycat has always trolled me and he doesn't like me
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• 1455[19:59:22] <horribleprogram> and I have no animosity towards him, he's a cool guy and I respect him, but it's a one way street
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• 1457[19:59:38] <ratrace> queip: well the foot shootage came from yanking the coord with the GUI reset
• 1458[19:59:46] <greycat> I have no idea what you're talking about.
• 1459[19:59:50] <horribleprogram> he could easily ban me, but he doesn't, so I do have a level of respect for him :)
• 1460[20:00:17] <horribleprogram> anyways, is there a way to set, through gsettings, a sort of org.gnome.desktop.session thingy
• 1461[20:00:19] <ratrace> horribleprogram: i3 doesn't specifically require gdm tho. I'm using lightdm
• 1462[20:00:38] <horribleprogram> I like my config now
• 1463[20:00:43] <horribleprogram> cuz I have xmodmap
• 1464[20:00:52] <horribleprogram> and my Caps lock is mapped to <Esc>
• 1465[20:00:59] <horribleprogram> and don't wanna ruin anything
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• 1467[20:02:59] <horribleprogram> I used dconf-editor
• 1468[20:03:13] <horribleprogram> to change the value of org.gnome.settings-daemon.plugins.power to 'nothing'
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• 1472[20:03:55] <horribleprogram> okay with a nice restart
• 1473[20:04:00] <horribleprogram> lemme see if it goes to sleep
• 1474[20:04:19] <horribleprogram> also I have no mouse
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• 1489[20:14:19] <scrul00se> Is that old xset -s thing still relevant? I seem to remember long ago having a hell of a time figuring out why my screen kept blanking w/ no screensaver enabled and eventually adding xset -s noblank to some init or xsession file made it stop...
• 1490[20:14:59] <scrul00se> ... but that was about 100 years ago, so no idea whether default behaviour is even remotely the same now ;)
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• 1492[20:15:09] <greycat> I think it depends on what you're doing, because there are *so* many possible layers and complexities now.
• 1493[20:15:36] <greycat> If you're using any kind of Desktop Environment, I would guess that would override your xset s settings, but I don't know for sure.
• 1494[20:16:01] <greycat> I still use fvwm, no DM, no DE, so for me it still works.
• 1495[20:16:23] <horribleprogram> so it fell asleep
• 1496[20:16:29] <scrul00se> Old skool
• 1497[20:16:31] <horribleprogram> journalctl doesn't record it
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• 1502[20:18:06] <captainchris> hey everybody
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• 1504[20:18:29] <captainchris> I try to create an alias for mpv to use it with cpulimit
• 1505[20:19:33] <captainchris> replaced-url
• 1506[20:20:09] <captainchris> but I can use $(pgrep mpv) works in bash but not in my function
• 1507[20:20:32] <greycat> well there goes any slight temptation I had to open that URL
• 1508[20:20:42] <greycat> so, this "cpulimit" thing isn't an mpv option?
• 1509[20:22:34] <captainchris> nope cpulimit is an app to reduce cpu usage
• 1510[20:22:54] <captainchris> when i wathc movie my cpu usage is up to 150%
• 1511[20:23:05] <captainchris> and after my computer freeze
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• 1514[20:23:38] <greycat> Then we would have to know how this cpulimit application works....
• 1515[20:23:45] <taman> captainchris, won't your line 2 run only after mpv has finished?
• 1516[20:24:01] <greycat> Hmm, there is a package named "cpulimit".
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• 1518[20:24:15] <captainchris> taman
• 1519[20:24:26] <captainchris> nope echo doesn't print anything
• 1520[20:24:51] * greycat finds replaced-url
• 1521[20:25:10] <taman> captainchris, right because at that time there is no mpv process for it to report (is my theory).
• 1522[20:25:31] <captainchris> and how can i do ??
• 1523[20:25:33] <scrul00se> captainchris: right, because after mpv has finished, there's no mpv process for pgrep to find. Try single & to background mpv instead of && to wait for exit status, maybe?
• 1524[20:25:58] <greycat> Why are you using pgrep AT ALL? Doesn't this cpulimit thing handle it all for you?
• 1525[20:26:29] <greycat> cpulimit -your -options -here -- mpv --your --mpv --options
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• 1527[20:27:06] <scrul00se> Or greycat might point out a much simpler way. ;)
• 1528[20:28:03] <greycat> All I did was guess that there might be a program with that name, look for its man page on manpages.debian.org, and read it.
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• 1534[20:33:08] <jmcnaught> captainchris: another option is using systemd-run which can also set other limits documented in systemd.resource-control(5). Something like: systemd-run --user --scope -p CPUQuota=20\% mpv ~/Videos/STEAL_THIS_MOVIE.avi
• 1535[20:34:07] <captainchris> jmcnaught: ok I didn't knpw
• 1536[20:34:30] <greycat> Yikes... gonna have to do some deeper research on this one.
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• 1538[20:34:54] <greycat> Oh, great, the actual explanations aren't even in man pages. It's pointing me to two .txt files.
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• 1540[20:37:48] <captainchris> doesn't works well systemd. if I speed up the movie cpu usage is 140%
• 1541[20:39:07] <scrul00se> jmcnaught: Oooh, neat! I didn't know about systemd-run.
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• 1543[20:39:47] <captainchris> greycat cpulimit need a app name or a PID app name returns me a segmentation fault
• 1544[20:40:32] <greycat> well, if the program doesn't do what its man page says, then I certainly can't help you with it. file a bug report.
• 1545[20:40:42] <greycat> I'd never even heard of it before today.
• 1546[20:41:30] *** Quits: lucad111 (~lucad111@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 1547[20:41:33] <greycat> I will note that the examples in the man page are not organized the way I would have organized them. The stupid one is first, and the sensible one ("launch firefox and throttle it") is near the end.
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• 1552[20:44:30] <scrul00se> I will add that the project looks very abandoned, with a github repo that hasn't had an update in 6 years: replaced-url
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• 1554[20:45:13] <greycat> and the dates on the .txt files that systemd-run was using as a reference was about 5 years ago
• 1555[20:46:05] <greycat> I guess the concept of "write a userspace supervisor program that will continually -STOP and -CONT a monitored application" was tossed aside when someone decided to make the kernel do it
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• 1564[20:58:24] <scrul00se> Would it make sense to simply "nice" mpv, eg nice -n 10 mpv ~/Videos/STEAL_THIS_MOVIE.avi
• 1565[20:58:39] <greycat> that wouldn't reduce CPU usage
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• 1567[21:00:03] <greycat> near as I can tell, the actual issue is "my laptop(?) overheats and shuts down if I transcode videos... but instead of fixing that issue, I still want to transcode videos on my broken hardware, but I need a monkey to flip the slow/fast switch a hundred times a second for me"
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• 1570[21:01:26] <scrul00se> Ah. So... this may be a dumb question, but "when someone decided to make the kernel do it" — Is there an obvious userland interface to turn that knob up and down?
• 1571[21:02:01] *** Joins: ndegruchy (~nathan@replaced-ip)
• 1572[21:02:40] <greycat> we were just talking about one, called "cpulimit"
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• 1575[21:05:15] <scrul00se> I'm confused. I had read your comment as meaning that things like cpulimit had ceased to be relevant because some built-in kernel facility had superseded it. No?
• 1576[21:05:44] *** Quits: platvoeten (~platvoete@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
• 1577[21:05:51] <greycat> the cgroup thing that systemd-run is using
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• 1581[21:08:45] <scrul00se> So systemd-run is the obvious interface to use to get at the kernel's built-in limiting facility (cgroups), which is why cpulimit et al are no longer relevant. Do I have it roughly right now?
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• 1584[21:09:48] <greycat> we were speculating that that might be the reason, based on the dates that the one went dormant and the other one appeared
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• 1587[21:10:04] <ratrace> scrul00se: pretty much, though systemd is not required to manipulate cgroups
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• 1593[21:11:43] <diogenes_> cpulimit works great here, i'm using it all the time.
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• 1598[21:13:55] <ratrace> sending signals to limit a process is far from "great". it may work, but so does a duct tape instead of welding to build a car.
• 1599[21:14:11] <scrul00se> ratrace: Cool. And is there, like, a single obvious choice of command or utility for manipulating cgroups without involving systemd?
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• 1601[21:15:41] <ratrace> scrul00se: cgroups(7) has all the info
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• 1604[21:16:26] <mason> scrul00se: cgmanager, libcgmanager
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• 1606[21:16:47] <ratrace> or just echo into /sys
• 1607[21:16:52] <mason> docco: replaced-url
• 1608[21:16:58] <scrul00se> ratrace: Oh. I suppose that would be the obvious place to start, yeah. Thanks!
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• 1611[21:17:47] <scrul00se> Thanks for the pointers.
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• 1627[21:34:12] <L0aD1nG> as i understood upgrading on the newest stable release from the previous one is not the same as a fresh install i found packets that were installed (on older releases) not currently exist a Debian 10 fresh. But still exist after upgrading from an older release...
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• 1630[21:35:51] <greycat> yes, it's normal to have some leftover stuff sitting around, especially libraries
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• 1632[21:37:42] <L0aD1nG> greycat: for example ifconfig (from net-tools package) was existing by default, now i fresh installed Debian 10 (just the Standar system utilities not a Graphical Enviroment) and saw that ifconfig doesnt exist...
• 1633[21:38:12] <L0aD1nG> thats just an example i saw many other things not existing
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• 1638[21:42:17] <greycat> also normal, yes
• 1639[21:42:45] <greycat> For that particular one, there is actually a newer package in buster, so it *did* get upgraded, and the newer version has a different output format....
• 1640[21:43:01] <greycat> (just to make sure everything fails)
• 1641[21:43:39] <greycat> For libraries, the package typically contains a version number corresponding to the library's SO_NAME, so multiple versions can coexist.
• 1642[21:44:58] <greycat> e.g. you might have libssl1.0.2 and libssl1.1
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• 1656[22:02:32] <L0aD1nG> greycat: so we should mark no needed packages("by hand") and uninstall them?
• 1657[22:02:39] <L0aD1nG> after an dist-upgrade
• 1658[22:03:27] <greycat> you could leave them alone
• 1659[22:03:43] <greycat> if you're an "apt remove" person, you could use that
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• 1666[22:09:27] <AimHere> Sigh. I'm trying to add a third party directory full of shared libraries in /usr/local to the system-wide library path, but after adding the path to a .conf file in /etc/ld.so.conf.d, running ldconfig and checking that ldconfig can see it with "ldconfig -v", I still can't get g++ to see the library (/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lcudart) , except if I use the LD_LIBRARY_PATH variable. What dumb thing am I forgetting?
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• 1671[22:13:47] <greycat> does your /etc/ld.so.conf contain "include /etc/ld.so.conf.d/*.conf" ?
• 1672[22:14:22] <AimHere> It does. That's all it contains. Exactly what it's supposed to
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• 1674[22:16:26] <AimHere> I was worried about other versions of the same library kicking around causing conflicts with dead symlinks or something, but locate and find don't see anything untoward
• 1675[22:16:38] <dob1> in practice now, what have I to use to manage / create samba users? smbpasswd /pbedit/samba-tool ??
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• 1677[22:21:24] <dob1> from what I read samba-tool is the new one that I have to use but it permits to create samba user even if the user not exists as local user. but it's not clear how you then link a samba user with a local user
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• 1689[22:27:22] <Franciman> Hi, ok I found a strange behaviour
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• 1691[22:28:46] <Franciman> in my driver's logs I find a lot of: messages of this type, when I disconnect
• 1692[22:28:49] <Franciman> nov 25 20:24:45 picci kernel: ath10k_pci 0000:02:00.0: htt tx alloc msdu_id 80
• 1693[22:29:24] <Franciman> with no message of this type:
• 1694[22:29:26] <Franciman> nov 25 20:09:35 picci kernel: ath10k_pci 0000:02:00.0: htt tx completion num_msdus 7
• 1695[22:29:30] <Franciman> neither of this:
• 1696[22:29:48] <Franciman> nov 25 20:09:35 picci kernel: ath10k_pci 0000:02:00.0: htt tx free msdu_id 0
• 1697[22:29:51] <Franciman> what is happening?
• 1698[22:30:02] <Franciman> it keeps sending those htt tx alloc msdu_id messages to the logs
• 1699[22:30:06] <Franciman> and it never completes
• 1700[22:30:09] <Franciman> what's wrong? :O
• 1701[22:30:42] <AimHere> Is that your wireless controller? Does the device actually work?
• 1702[22:31:05] <AimHere> I've long ago decided to ignore logspam unless it's accompanied with something breaking
• 1703[22:31:35] <Franciman> AimHere, when this strange behavior in logs happen, the connection drops
• 1704[22:31:55] <Franciman> probably the card waits for a message from the router, which never comes :<
• 1705[22:32:21] <Franciman> yes it's the wireless controller (for which I also have the firmware)
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• 1711[22:36:49] <spacedust> linux is not so good
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• 1713[22:37:09] <L0aD1nG> lol
• 1714[22:37:28] <L0aD1nG> why spacedust ??
• 1715[22:37:29] <sney> (blond beard meme guy face) we know
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• 1717[22:37:34] <Franciman> lol
• 1718[22:37:46] <Franciman> I'm willing to fix when it's not working
• 1719[22:37:51] <Franciman> but I don't understand what this means :P
• 1720[22:38:18] <spacedust> well nothing fancy
• 1721[22:38:23] <spacedust> its just not so good :)
• 1722[22:38:30] <spacedust> neither is windows
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• 1724[22:38:32] <spacedust> nor macos
• 1725[22:38:38] <spacedust> nor the one i did not code :)
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• 1727[22:39:27] <spacedust> life sucks :)
• 1728[22:39:35] <spacedust> specially when everyone and everything is against you :)
• 1729[22:39:45] * spacedust off, have a nice evening yall
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• 1739[22:48:14] <trysten> I think I have replaced-url
• 1740[22:48:20] <trysten> screen
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• 1744[22:50:18] <trysten> err, not sure how I sent two messages there. Did irssi automatically break it up? o.o
• 1745[22:50:36] <greycat> yes, it can do that
• 1746[22:51:05] <trysten> Thanks. I guess I'm not long winded.
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• 1796[23:40:47] <srged> I'd liek to be able to get on desktop by clicking the bottom border... (lxde )
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