Realtime Nick Name Ticker of #debian at freenode (ICQ IRC service)

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13[00:09:06] <tcurdt> an update has installed a newer package version that doesn't work as expected (3rd party, I blame them)
14[00:09:11] <tcurdt> now I want to roll back to the previous version, but is there some kind of a install history?
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16[00:09:25] <greycat> /var/log/apt* and dpkg*
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18[00:10:07] <greycat> the former is actually /var/log/apt/history*
19[00:11:17] <tcurdt> ok, so there is no apt/dpkg way.
20[00:12:09] <tcurdt> is there an easy way to look at the .#number .#number.gz files?
21[00:12:20] <greycat> zless, zgrep, zcat
22[00:13:08] <tcurdt> but those don't take both kind of files, compressed and un-compressed, no?
23[00:13:39] <jhutchins> What kind of package did you install?
24[00:13:49] <greycat> !tias
25[00:13:49] <dpkg> TIAS is "Try It And See".
26[00:13:57] <tcurdt> I did
27[00:13:58] <greycat> unicorn:/var/log$ zgrep perl dpkg*
28[00:13:59] <greycat> dpkg.log:2021-01-14 16:46:18 install perl-doc:all <none> 5.28.1-6+deb10u1
29[00:14:42] <tcurdt> I tried "zcat /var/log/dpkg.log*"
30[00:14:59] <greycat> well, zgrep handles both
31[00:15:03] <tcurdt> cool
32[00:15:19] <jhutchins> tcurdt: How you un-install a third party package depends on how you installed it.
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34[00:17:07] <tcurdt> jhutchins: no sure I get what you are trying to say. I am trying to install an older version.
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155[02:04:40] <PeaceTea> it is my understanding that doing an "apt purge" should also remove systemd configuration on debian. I uninstalled some services but they are still lurking in systemd -a and show up as "not-found". I have a bunch of services "not-found" how can I clean these up?
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159[02:06:16] <sney> if you restart systemd (systemctl daemon-reload) it should clear out anything that no longer has a unit file on disk
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161[02:07:52] <PeaceTea> sney: hi, I tried daemon-reload but the service still shows up as not found.
162[02:08:58] <sney> linux does a lot of caching behind the scenes, so there's probably some half reference to those services in memory... daemon-reexec might do it, or just reboot, or just don't worry about it
163[02:09:17] <PeaceTea> sney: I rebooted. It still shows up
164[02:09:33] <PeaceTea> sney: there is not unit file in /etc/systemd/system either.
165[02:10:45] <sney> hm. check in /etc/systemd/system or /lib/systemd/system, there may be a file that belongs to a package that you did not purge
166[02:11:11] <Brigo__> if you modify the file it will not be removed even on purge
167[02:11:19] <PeaceTea> I checked both directories there is no unit file for that service I purged.
168[02:11:47] <sney> what's the package?
169[02:11:51] <Brigo__> maybe they come from sysvinit converted files
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171[02:12:20] <PeaceTea> sney: tinc@vpn.service
172[02:12:28] <PeaceTea> I switched to wireguard
173[02:13:30] <jmcnaught> Is tinc@vpn.service referenced by any other unit files?
174[02:13:56] <jmcnaught> "systemctl -a" shows not-found units for me too, for packages that have never been installed, but the units seem to be referenced by other unit files that are installed.
175[02:13:57] <kline\0> will python3 be the default in bullseye later this year?
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180[02:16:32] <PeaceTea> jmcnaught: I didn't check that. I just did a grep "tinc" *.service in /etc/systemd/system and nothing came up. is there a better way to check?
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186[02:19:07] <jmcnaught> PeaceTea: also search /lib/systemd/system
187[02:19:50] <sney> tinc's preinst script generates the service symlink (replaced-url
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190[02:20:14] <slop> hi all <3
191[02:20:35] <sney> so that could leave a dud symlink hanging in /lib/systemd pointing to nothing
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193[02:22:01] <sney> kline\0: sort of, there isn't a standard-priority python package in bullseye anymore, and no unversioned 'python' metapackage either. if you apt install python3 you'll get python 3.9 though, and it'll likely be installed as a dep of some common software on most systems
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195[02:22:32] <kline\0> sney: ok
196[02:22:40] <kline\0> to be clear, when i install off the iso
197[02:22:44] <kline\0> and i type pythn
198[02:22:49] <kline\0> what interpreter will i get
199[02:23:04] <sney> bash: python: command not found
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202[02:23:39] <kline\0> i wonder how much thats going to break
203[02:23:45] <sney> there is no unversioned python by default. you have to specify 2 or 3, unless you explicitly install one of the python-is-* packages
204[02:24:09] <PeaceTea> I think I found the problem. there was a broken symlink in /etc/systemd/system/multi-user.target.wants/tinc@vpn.service.
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207[02:24:13] <kline\0> after install, with python2 be installed by default?
208[02:24:17] <kline\0> well, as part of install
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210[02:24:25] <sney> oh, it's already been breaking stuff in testing for months :P (but it's pretty ok in its current state, at least with software in debian)
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212[02:24:53] <kline\0> (so directly after an install, if i python2 will i get an interpreter, and the same question for python3)
213[02:24:53] <sney> no, python2 is not installed by default either. there is *no* standard-priority python package in bullseye. 'python-minimal' is how you had that in buster and previous debian releases
214[02:25:18] <kline\0> debian has eliminated python from its default base install entirely...?
215[02:25:30] <kline\0> sorry if im sounding thick here
216[02:25:31] <slop> Not sure when it was included
217[02:25:52] <sney> an early goal for bullseye was to remove python2 entirely; there had to be some compromises around that, but in bullseye python2 only gets installed if you expressly want to install it
218[02:26:17] <kline\0> so on a base install, there is no python of any kind available?
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221[02:26:50] <PeaceTea> I been using debian since Potato I been very happy with it I just haven't taken the time to really learn the ins and outs of systemd.
222[02:26:59] <sney> it really depends on what you consider a "base install". it's likely that python3 will be on most new debian installs, but only because so much software depends on it.
223[02:27:20] <slop> Debian Buster contains Python 2.7, 3.7 e.g. , Python 3 3.7.3
224[02:27:33] <slop> sauce: replaced-url
225[02:27:38] <kline\0> if i take the amd64 iso off the release page and then install that without changing any of the options in the presented tasksel during install
226[02:27:45] <sney> slop: yes, the question is about bullseye, where the situation has changed
227[02:28:00] <slop> Debian Bullseye contains 2.7, 3.7, 3.8
228[02:28:02] <sney> kline\0: that would include the gnome desktop, and almost certainly you'd get python3 with it
229[02:28:10] <slop> replaced-url
230[02:28:19] <sney> slop: if you are just going to paste links, you can stop
231[02:29:08] <slop> thats the source showing the version?
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233[02:29:28] <slop> its resaerch homie :D
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235[02:30:17] <kline\0> slop: i think its pretty clear that there's no canonical answer to this that will appear on a page
236[02:30:23] <sney> 1) the DebianBullseye wiki page does not say any package versions for release and b) kline\0 had some specific questions, which are not covered by the basics of "what version does the list say"
237[02:30:25] <kline\0> but thanks for the links in any case
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239[02:31:04] <abrotman> Pfft, all the cool kids are switching to lisp
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241[02:31:58] <kline\0> sney: so if i understand right: debians base server install (tasksel as presented during install) will not install python2 or python3 directly, but gnome will likely pull python3. there is no `python` at all, but there are packages that will install a `python` that will direct to the 2 or 3 interpreter according to your taste
242[02:32:12] <sney> kline\0: yup, you got it.
243[02:32:14] <kline\0> (i say server and gnome there, just presume im not being dumb)
244[02:32:22] <kline\0> (its a big jump but still)
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246[02:32:58] <kline\0> this is really interesting, i remember talk about eliminating python2 by default as far back as jessie, but debians core software requiring it in some fashion
247[02:33:28] <kline\0> so it wasnt possible to have your "standard" gui-less debian install without python2 because it was a dependency of stuff involved
248[02:33:37] <sney> yeah. no debian software requires it anymore, it's just a handful of bigger applications that still do. notably, chromium's build system requires py2
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250[02:34:03] <PeaceTea> yeah I don't even care if python is installed in base system. I use python in containers.
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252[02:34:29] <kline\0> i guess debian has picked up other things instead, or has everything been moved over to runtime-less binaries?
253[02:34:46] <sney> kline\0: also fyi, for bullseye questions your best resource is #debian-next on OFTC (note, right now you are on freenode) even though we're in the freeze now.
254[02:34:48] <kline\0> (ie, whatever used python in the past is now C, Go, Rust, etc, rather than replacing python with ruby)
255[02:35:04] <sney> there is significant overlap between channels but -next has more people with firsthand dev knowledge
256[02:35:17] <kline\0> thanks, i am on oftc but for different purposes
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258[02:38:41] <sney> I'm pretty sure aptitude used to have python internals, but it's all c++ (and shell) now according to salsa
259[02:38:45] <slop> kline\0 not sure if youve seen this, I am by no means a python person but wanted to share: replaced-url
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262[02:39:47] <dvs> 3.7 and 3.8? Python is weird!
263[02:40:02] <sney> heh, and it's wrong. bullseye has 3.9.1
264[02:40:12] <kline\0> whoops
265[02:40:16] <dvs> ???
266[02:40:27] <sney> (and 2.7.18)
267[02:41:15] <sney> "what versions of python are in bullseye" added to that page on 2020-06-02, so that tracks with it having outdated information
268[02:41:42] <slop> sorry all, I wasnt sure so was researching
269[02:42:12] <sney> tracker is a better resource for stuff that's not finalized
270[02:44:03] * sney fix the wiki
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274[02:46:11] <kline\0> i think that debian has to remove all python from its tools is perhaps the strongest condemnation of the situation of python
275[02:47:17] <sney> I'm not sure if that's a correct assessment, but I also haven't read much of the dev discussions about this
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277[02:47:42] <kline\0> well, generally, its a sorry situation where your downstreams choose to eliminate the language rather than deal with it
278[02:47:47] <sney> getting rid of python2 may have been its own goal, with py3 being less of a core component as a side effect, rather than a goal. but who knows, this is the system we have now
279[02:48:14] <kline\0> theres a cost to removing python generally, and clearly the cost to remove and replace the python software was less than the cost to upgrade anything needed to python3
280[02:48:39] <sney> it may have been extra future-proofing yeah, to keep this from happening again
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283[02:48:53] <sney> the py2 eol has been enough of a nuisance for over a decade
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285[02:49:17] <kline\0> nuisance is a very diplomatic way to put it
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291[02:55:53] <freem> huh? " debian has to remove all python from its tools" sorry, is that true? I can't really imagine debian rewriting python tools just for that?
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294[03:02:34] <freem> oh, ok
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307[03:10:17] <freem> samba-libs is still built with python 3.9 support, and it's required by lot of tools. lsb-release on py3, same for gtk3 libs, so I guess it will require very specialized installations to not have it anyway
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338[03:34:40] <rindolf> Hi all! «systemctl --user disable pulseaudio.service» and «systemctl --user stop pulseaudio.service» still make pulseaudio start
339[03:36:31] <sney> it's probably being started by something else. see replaced-url
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342[03:40:30] <rindolf> sney: thanks
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350[03:46:09] <rindolf> sney: it didn't help - i did the ln -s thing as root
351[03:47:25] <sney> you would have to create that symlink in the location of the actual pulseaudio unit, which is not necessarily /etc/systemd/system for a user unit
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353[03:48:20] <freem> thanks for the link sney, will probably be useful
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357[03:53:18] <rindolf> sney: yay! I can haz sound now that i "apt remove pulseaudio"
358[03:53:33] <rindolf> sney: thanks
359[03:53:41] <sney> np
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361[03:58:05] <rindolf> sney: btw, 'all star' works surprisingly well as a love song: [OT; sfw-ish] replaced-url
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377[04:14:52] <prg3> How can I tell apt to reinstall a package but also reinstall all of the default configuration files for /etc ?
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379[04:14:57] <prg3> I messed up a pulseaudio config :X
380[04:15:34] <jmcnaught> !confnew
381[04:15:34] <dpkg> [confnew] dpkg --force-confnew will force dpkg to overwrite any changes you have made to conffiles. You can also reinstall them using the following apt-get line: apt-get -o DPkg::Options::="--force-confnew" --reinstall install <packagename>; or using aptitude, aptitude -o DPkg::Options::="--force-confnew" reinstall <packagename>. See also <confmiss>.
382[04:15:45] <prg3> thank you!
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384[04:19:17] <prg3> Weird - running that command with "pulseaudio" and an empty /etc/pulse directory doesn't repopulate any of the files in /etc/pulse
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387[04:19:56] <sney> you may want 'confmiss' instead of 'confnew' - same commands otherwise
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389[04:20:53] <prg3> Aha! That did it.. Thanks. I'll head to read into those dpkg commands
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416[04:55:12] <CooloutAC> hello all
417[04:55:28] <CooloutAC> my chromium browser crashing after latest update can anyone help me?
418[04:55:30] <CooloutAC> libpng warning: iCCP: known incorrect sRGB profile
419[04:55:53] <CooloutAC> ERROR:gles2_cmd_decoder.cc(10069)] [.RenderWorker-0xba31ef0.GpuRasterization]GL ERROR :GL_INVALID_OPERATION : glDrawElements: buffer format and fragment output variable type incompatible
420[04:56:01] <CooloutAC> i use lxde
421[04:57:50] <Mr_Queue> Are you on sid by chance?
422[04:59:28] <CooloutAC> umm let me check
423[05:00:05] <CooloutAC> Debian 4.19.160-2 how do i check if i am on sid
424[05:00:27] <sney> cat /etc/debian_version
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426[05:01:35] <CooloutAC> i'm on debian 10 buster
427[05:01:59] <CooloutAC> i've found now that launching chromium with hardware acceleration turned off has not crashed yet
428[05:02:09] <CooloutAC> not sure what that means
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461[05:46:49] <mtlsw> hi folks, about the new debian.org homepage --- wondering why it isn't CD#1 as it refers to this from replaced-url
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463[05:48:08] <mtlsw> instead the main homepage download link is to netinst. I'm just wondering why it is "netinst" and not the traditional CD#1 as I've noticed in the past..
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469[05:55:41] <petn-randall> I might be wrong, but wasn't the netinst the link in the top right for years now?
470[05:57:40] <zykotick9> it's been netinst since at least squeeze (when I started using Debian) on the homepage
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489[06:29:38] <Mr_Queue> For as long as I can remember CD#1 is required to build a fully functional Debian system with the popular packages that can fit on a single CD and not require a working network connection.
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491[06:30:06] <Mr_Queue> Netinst is different as it is only useful if you have a working network connection.
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493[06:31:49] <Mr_Queue> CD#1 won't have stuff like KDE etc, but it will have text editors, perl, python, stuff like that.
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497[06:36:21] <Mr_Queue> In the future if a network connection becomes available to you it is very simple to upgrade and get access to all of debian from a remote repo.
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501[06:38:03] <Lope> what is all this crap? can I remove it? task-turkish-kde-desktop task-ukrainian-desktop task-ukrainian-kde-desktop
502[06:38:09] <Lope> there's 100's of them
503[06:38:26] <Lope> the only language used on my PC is english
504[06:38:35] <fling> keep russian one
505[06:38:44] <Lope> WODKA
506[06:38:54] <Mr_Queue> Came in from a meta. Lope do aptitude why task-turkish-kde-desktop
507[06:38:55] <fling> yes
508[06:39:16] <Mr_Queue> replaced-url
509[06:40:04] <Lope> Mr_Queue, my PC doesn't have aptitude?
510[06:40:05] <Lope> hehe
511[06:40:07] <Mr_Queue> So last I saw talk about what packages were marked for CD#1 Steve was involved and it was on the mailing lists. I don't recall what to google to find the conversation.
512[06:40:12] <Lope> Mr_Queue, I've got apt.
513[06:40:13] <Mr_Queue> Lope: add it.
514[06:40:17] <Mr_Queue> apt install aptitude
515[06:40:39] <Lope> Manually installed, current version 3.63, priority optional
516[06:40:44] <Lope> Looks like I can remove them all?
517[06:41:13] <Mr_Queue> Seems like you did a loop for stuff in the past..
518[06:41:26] <Mr_Queue> try apt -s remove task-turkish-kde-desktop
519[06:41:28] <Lope> Cool, I removed task-turkish-kde-desktop... nothing bad happened.
520[06:41:37] <Mr_Queue> it will tell you what it might blow away as well.
521[06:41:41] <Lope> I just did `apt remove task-turkish-kde-desktop`
522[06:41:56] <Lope> It only removed that one
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525[06:42:04] <Lope> But thanks for the tip!
526[06:42:10] <Lope> will try the -s some time
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529[06:44:27] <Lope> apt remove --purge task-albanian-desktop task-amharic-desktop task-amharic-kde-desktop task-arabic-desktop task-arabic-kde-desktop task-asturian-desktop task-basque-desktop task-basque-kde-desktop task-belarusian-desktop task-belarusian-kde-desktop task-bengali-desktop task-bengali-kde-desktop task-bosnian-desktop task-bosnian-kde-desktop task-brazilian-portuguese-desktop task-brazilian-portuguese-kde-desktop task-bulgarian-desktop task-bulgarian-kde-deskt
530[06:44:27] <Lope> op task-catalan-desktop task-catalan-kde-desktop task-chinese-s-desktop task-chinese-s-kde-desktop task-chinese-t-desktop task-chinese-t-kde-desktop task-croatian-desktop task-croatian-kde-desktop task-cyrillic-desktop task-cyrillic-kde-desktop task-czech-desktop task-czech-kde-desktop task-danish-desktop task-danish-kde-desktop task-dutch-desktop task-dutch-kde-desktop task-dzongkha-desktop task-dzongkha-kde-desktop task-esperanto-desktop
531[06:44:28] <Lope> task-esperanto-kde-desktop task-estonian-desktop task-estonian-kde-desktop task-finnish-desktop task-finnish-kde-desktop task-french-desktop task-french-kde-desktop task-galician-desktop task-galician-kde-desktop task-georgian-desktop task-german-desktop task-german-kde-desktop task-greek-desktop task-greek-kde-desktop task-gujarati-desktop task-gujarati-kde-desktop task-hebrew-desktop task-hebrew-kde-desktop task-hindi-desktop task-hindi-kde-desktop
532[06:44:33] <Lope> task-hungarian-desktop task-hungarian-kde-desktop task-icelandic-desktop task-icelandic-kde-desktop task-indonesian-desktop task-indonesian-kde-desktop task-irish-desktop task-irish-kde-desktop task-italian-desktop task-italian-kde-desktop task-japanese-desktop task-japanese-kde-desktop task-kannada-desktop task-kannada-kde-desktop task-kazakh-desktop task-kazakh-kde-desktop task-kde-desktop task-khmer-desktop task-khmer-kde-desktop task-korean-desktop
533[06:44:38] <Lope> task-korean-kde-desktop task-kurdish-desktop task-kurdish-kde-desktop task-laptop task-latvian-desktop task-latvian-kde-desktop task-lithuanian-desktop task-lithuanian-kde-desktop task-macedonian-desktop task-macedonian-kde-desktop task-malayalam-desktop task-malayalam-kde-desktop task-marathi-desktop task-nepali-desktop task-nepali-kde-desktop task-northern-sami-desktop task-norwegian-desktop task-norwegian-kde-desktop task-persian-desktop
534[06:44:45] <Lope> task-persian-kde-desktop task-polish-desktop task-polish-kde-desktop task-portuguese-desktop task-portuguese-kde-desktop task-punjabi-desktop task-punjabi-kde-desktop task-romanian-desktop task-romanian-kde-desktop task-russian-desktop task-russian-kde-desktop task-serbian-desktop task-serbian-kde-desktop task-sinhala-desktop task-sinhala-kde-desktop task-slovak-desktop task-slovak-kde-desktop task-slovenian-desktop task-slovenian-kde-desktop
535[06:44:45] <Mr_Queue> !pastebin
536[06:44:46] <dpkg> Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: replaced-url
537[06:44:50] <Lope> task-spanish-desktop task-spanish-kde-desktop task-swedish-desktop task-swedish-kde-desktop task-tamil-desktop task-telugu-desktop task-telugu-kde-desktop task-thai-desktop task-thai-kde-desktop task-turkish-desktop task-ukrainian-desktop task-ukrainian-kde-desktop task-uyghur-desktop task-uyghur-kde-desktop task-vietnamese-desktop task-vietnamese-kde-desktop task-welsh-desktop task-xhosa-desktop task-xhosa-kde-desktop
538[06:44:55] <Lope> Oh shit, sorry
539[06:44:57] <Lope> Accidental paste
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541[06:46:00] <l0rd_hex> a paste most foul!
542[06:46:43] <Lope> Haha, that's one of the worst floods, sorry.
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547[06:57:03] <petn-randall> Lope: I'm actually more surprised that the bot didn't kick you.
548[07:00:11] <Mr_Queue> I think his client rate limited them enough.
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605[08:26:38] <cavscout19> hello
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646[08:32:58] <cavscout19> hey all is there a channel for users that are relearning linux
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651[08:34:36] <cavscout19> #archlinux
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656[08:36:33] <coke> cavscout19: the first thing you need to learn is to ask about your problem not the solution you made up in your head
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663[08:47:33] <prem> Hi all
664[08:47:54] <prem> when can we expect 5.10 kernel in buster / buster backports
665[08:48:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1185
666[08:48:24] <prem> where can i find that roadmap or plan
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668[08:50:44] <jelly> in buster, never, as for the backports, I suspect there will be less work on buster now that bullseye freeze has started
669[08:50:58] <jelly> ,kernels
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672[08:59:59] <Mr_Queue> Uhh, if you require it just build it and deal with whatever is broke.
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711[09:17:00] <sgo11> hi, I am using a program which is required to source .bashrc manually everytime to get the PATH and other variables right. I launch it with a keyboard shortcut which triggers a shell script. Inside the shell script, I source .bashrc etc.. before executing the program. But source .bashrc everytime is slow when it has nvm/nodejs script, how can I avoid source it everytime?
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715[09:18:13] <pasiz> sgo11: could you elaborate more, isn't it possible to set required variables on start of the script
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720[09:22:18] <sgo11> pasiz: sure, sorry about the unclear question. Basically, I use a keyboard shortcut for the command "rofi -show run". But I found out it could not load all my PATHs. So, I change the keyboard shortcut to trigger a script "bash DIR/script.sh". Inside the script.sh, I do "source $HOME/.bashrc && rofi -show run". But it makes it very slow. Because there are many actions in .bashrc, for instance, I think nvm
721[09:22:24] <sgo11> script will use a long time.
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723[09:25:29] <sgo11> I am not sure if I express my question clearly. I am wondering if I can save the bash loading process virtually somehow. For example and I can do something like "load_virtual_path_env_in_ram && rofi -show run".
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725[09:27:32] <pasiz> sgo11: export path variable in script start
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727[09:28:34] <sgo11> pasiz: I need to load .bashrc environemnt completely. So it will end up source .bashrc. and it's slow if I do it every time.
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729[09:29:21] <sgo11> It's OK to do it once. But I use the keyboard shortcut a lot, it's basically a run dialog.
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763[10:13:54] <ratrace> sgo11: if all you need is PATH or maybe a few env vars, you can set them on the command line you use to invoke your program
764[10:14:28] <ratrace> also, if you want your PATH modifications to be available for all the programs you start, not just those started from your shell, you can alter PATH via DM sourced files, eg. ~/.xsessionrc
765[10:15:20] <brigand> ~/.profile
766[10:15:27] <oxek> as a debian user, is there anything I can do to make sure a package lands in next debian stable? The freeze is coming soon, and 'scrcpy' is still only in unstable.
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768[10:18:41] <brigand> oxek: buy a ppc64el device and offer testing maybe replaced-url
769[10:19:16] <jelly> dpkg, why is scrcpy not in testing
770[10:19:16] <dpkg> scrcpy is not in testing for the reasons listed in replaced-url
771[10:19:39] <jelly> first, wait five days
772[10:19:40] <oxek> are ppc devices still for sale anyway?
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774[10:20:05] <sgo11> brigand: thanks a lot, I will try ~/.profile. I am reading replaced-url
775[10:20:19] <oxek> jelly: been waiting since 2019, when scrcpy landed in sid
776[10:20:50] <jelly> oxek, was the version at 1.17-1 in 2019?
777[10:21:01] <oxek> no
778[10:21:16] <jelly> then wait 5 days
779[10:21:23] <oxek> oh I see, it has been updated in sid recently
780[10:21:35] <oxek> so perhaps it will reach testing before freeze
781[10:21:45] <jelly> !bullseye freeze
782[10:21:45] <dpkg> the freeze for Debian 11 'bullseye' has begun on 2021-01-13. replaced-url
783[10:22:47] <Haohmaru> ooh
784[10:23:25] <Haohmaru> brr, it's cold indeed
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787[10:25:03] <sgo11> (1) .profile loads when login graphically. (2) .bash_profile does NOT load when login graphically. (3) .profile does NOT load when .bash_profile exists. The above three points look kinda contradiction. Does it mean login will simply ignore both .profile and .bash_profile when they both exist? (just some thought. haven't tested yet)
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789[10:25:42] <brigand> sgo11: thank ratrace. and no idea about your last question
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801[10:36:22] <ratrace> sgo11: none of them should be sourced when you "login graphically" .. and by that I assume you mean via DM . Those are shell specific (re)source files. DM login is not a shell
802[10:36:44] <ratrace> are you misinterpreting "interactive" login?
803[10:37:43] <jelly> sgo11, why are you asking about these, what's your goal
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806[10:40:46] <jelly> if you need stuff available for any process after graphical login, perhaps
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808[10:40:49] <jelly> !xsessionrc
809[10:40:49] <dpkg> ~/.xsessionrc is read by startx and by all display managers, before starting the X session. See <replaced-url
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812[10:44:04] <oxek> unless you're on wayland, no?
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814[10:45:07] <ratrace> yea
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816[10:45:25] <sgo11> brigand: I just tried .profile, it works very well. Thanks a lot. I am not sure what will happen if the file .bash_profile also exists. So I just make sure .bash_profile does not exist.
817[10:46:00] <oxek> I still dream of a day where all linux distributions will adhere to some standard where a single file like ~/.autostart determines what gets started on boot/login
818[10:46:12] <sgo11> pasiz: just FYI, If I put all PATH setup and scripts in .profile, it's loaded once at login (graphically). So problem solved.
819[10:47:13] <ratrace> ~/autoexec.bat
820[10:48:08] <oxek> ~/AUTOEXEC.BAT
821[10:48:31] <ratrace> sgo11: .profile is for bash and shells, so what you think is happening isn't unless you have some adittional processes going on there that you aren't mentioning
822[10:48:36] <ratrace> oxek: true, my bad.
823[10:48:54] <ratrace> but now with ext4 begetting case insensitive support ...... who cares :)
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825[10:49:02] <oxek> ratrace: oh I don't mean that you said it wrong, I just mean it would be a nice blast from the past to have it all caps
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828[10:50:11] <oxek> coincidentally, can we have rootfs on exfat yet?
829[10:50:31] <sgo11> ratrace: jelly: My question was: I triggered a program by a keyboard shortcut. But it does not have all the env variables I setup in .bashrc. I configured everything in .bashrc which is not the right way. After putting everything to .profile, it works. and .profile is loaded once I login graphically. But .bashrc only loads when I open a terminal (non-login shell).
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831[10:51:13] <ratrace> sgo11: what display manager are you using?
832[10:51:28] <sgo11> ratrace: I am running kde. the display manager should be sddm.
833[10:52:32] <ratrace> sgo11: ~/.profile isn't (or at least should not as far as I know and bugs I'm reading on sddm GH) sourced on sddm login
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835[10:53:00] <ratrace> ~/.xsessionrc should be though
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837[10:54:01] <sgo11> ratrace: .profile is sourced here. I just tested. maybe only some sddm version has that bug.
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839[10:54:57] <ratrace> sgo11: no, the other way around, it's a bug if it DOES. see these: replaced-url
840[10:55:16] * ratrace kicks dpkg ... replaced-url
841[10:55:27] <Haohmaru> shh, no violence
842[10:56:09] <ratrace> seems like something specific to ubuntu and debian that the upstream devs aren't aware of. so... I wouldn't rely on that if I were you as it can go away with future updates. Do it properly and use ~/.xsessionrc .
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844[10:59:40] <sgo11> ratrace: I am not sure what "the other way around" really means here. sorry about my English skill. I checked the bug, it's really old one (year 2015). .profile is working and loaded in my current env.
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846[11:01:47] <ratrace> sgo11: it should NOT be sourced by sddm. ~/.profile and /etc/profile are bash things. if it does it's apparently something specific to debian, wrong thing to do and could go away in the future. It will definitely break your setup if you change your DM. So, to do it PROPERLY ... use ~/.xsessionrc .
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849[11:05:29] <sgo11> ratrace: I think sddm does source it. I am checking this file: replaced-url
850[11:07:00] <ratrace> sgo11: yes it apparently IS abusing shell (re)source files for non-shell login. but that's totally wrong, even the sddm devs don't know this is going on. .xsessionrc is DM/DE/WM agnostic and proper way to do it. for X11 sessions, as oxek noted, which means you'll have to figure out what is being used by wayland sessions.
851[11:07:07] <ratrace> (if, I mean, you want to use wayland)
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853[11:08:09] <sgo11> I never use wayland so far. Maybe later when most of people switched. :)
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882[11:29:51] <oxek> isn't wayland default on debian if you install gnome?
883[11:30:03] <oxek> and gnome is default GUI on debian
884[11:30:36] <oxek> which would lead me to believe that most (new) users that install a graphical environment in debian are running on wayland
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889[11:33:40] <ratrace> oxek: that may or may not be true
890[11:33:45] <ratrace> (the last statement)
891[11:34:07] <BCMM> i think it's still not default for nvidia users
892[11:34:07] <oxek> I admit I have no data to support that last statement
893[11:34:26] <ratrace> BCMM: iirc only for proprietary nvidia users which doesn't happen on first, default install
894[11:34:31] <oxek> BCMM: does debian installer care about whether it is nvidia or amd?
895[11:34:45] <ratrace> oxek: it's not the installer that cares, but GDM
896[11:34:46] <BCMM> oxek: no, but i think gnome-session does
897[11:35:05] <BCMM> or maybe GDM. anyway the determination is made at login time, not install time
898[11:35:35] <ratrace> iirc the wayland session isn't even available as option if you're on proprietary nvidia driver
899[11:35:43] <BCMM> could get some idea of the number of gnome users and nvidia users from popcon, but i imagine that's biased towards more knowledgeable users
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901[11:38:31] <ratrace> I'd imagine Debian in general is installed by more knowledgeable users, which I'd imagine tend to not use gnome :)
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903[11:39:34] <oxek> ubuntu has lost a lot of steam, so perhaps users are picking debian or mint instead
904[11:40:25] <ratrace> or going back to windows most likely :)
905[11:40:40] <oxek> the sad truth however is that users pick some random debian-based distro, that stops being developed after a couple months, and users are left with no (security) updates and no way of transferring onto a different distro
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907[11:43:22] <oxek> back before corona times, I'd visit people and they'd tell me their browser can no longer show some webpage, and ask me to fix it. Then I'd see they are running some mandrake linux...
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920[12:07:10] <RoyK> oxek: well, it's only 16-odd years old? :D
921[12:10:11] <oxek> yeah. Those were the times when every country had a few enthusiasts that wanted to translate everything into their national language and make it a whole distro... only for it to die a few years later
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929[12:21:30] <BCMM> that's one of those situation where there was no need to fork a distro. like, just contribute to the i18n efforts of an existing project
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932[12:21:59] <BCMM> i don't know of any major desktop environment that would turn away somebody wanting to contribute translations
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934[12:23:45] <azeem> it's usually more than just translation though
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954[12:46:33] <oxek> there are very few legitimate reasons to fork a distro instead of contributing to the existing project
955[12:47:11] <oxek> azeem: ok, so it's translation + changing default search engine in web browser...
956[12:47:28] <oxek> a new distro is born...
957[12:48:38] <oxek> there really was no need to ubuntu to come into existence, and then for mint, and then for popOS, ... Everyone could have contributed to debian, and then provided themes & paid support.
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963[12:51:03] <ratrace> given different packaging policy of ubuntu, that would've been rather awkward to pull off in debian
964[12:51:30] <ratrace> or even impossible
965[12:52:28] <oxek> is there really such a difference? It's just whether they track stable or testing (which can differ for lts & non-lts), and whether they have non-free enabled by default, and whether they offer extra partner repositories
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967[12:53:30] <ratrace> yes there is. unlike sid, ubuntu does freezes of its own. so there'd be a need to provide a separate, parallel branch that's not in the sid->testing->stable stream
968[12:53:45] <ratrace> and it's not just that. ubuntu includes things that aren't compatible with DFSG
969[12:54:21] <ratrace> that's actually big(gest) reason Ubuntu gained traction. it ditched foss politicking and gave users a ready-made linux distro that had as much HW support as possible
970[12:55:24] <ratrace> just ask heret^W jelly why he's on ubuntu desktop and not debian desktop :)
971[12:55:58] <oxek> debian has non-free repo too, that is not subject to dfsg
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974[12:56:40] <ratrace> oxek: yeah no. it's not enabled by default and you need to do "too much work" (for regular users who aren't nerds) to even get it to install on some hardware . I'm talking about firmware ISOs
975[12:56:46] <oxek> my point is that there's no need to create an entire distribution, when all that is needed is a new repo that has things not available in the original distro
976[12:57:18] <ratrace> and then nvidia. I have gtx960. stretch does not boot on that. I have no idea why and I never bothered to investigate, but I'm "nerd" enough to reboot into text mode and install proprietary
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978[12:57:45] <oxek> nvidia is a problem on all of linux, no?
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1038[12:57:50] <ratrace> so no, ubuntu really did a lot to attract people who aren't gonna fiddle with internals that debian requires you to, for non-free stuffs
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1048[12:58:05] <ratrace> oxek: not really. it JustWorks(tm) on ubuntu
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1061[12:58:22] <ratrace> many non-free chipsets JustWork(tm) on ubuntu and you don't have to fiddle with nonfree isos
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1095[12:58:55] <ratrace> flakking netsplits
1096[12:59:00] <oxek> You're right, ubuntu did a lot for linux in the past. I just question whether it was necessary to create a whole new distro for that.
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1105[12:59:26] <ratrace> oxek: yes. those things would never get into debian.
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1114[13:00:05] <ratrace> I mean ..... QED right? debian still conforms to DFSG and has non-free and separate isos and you fiddle with politicking to get proper HW support
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1118[13:00:42] <ratrace> and sometimes that politicking even negatively affects advanced users on ubuntu.... requiring you to rebuild packages.....
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1120[13:00:57] <ratrace> on Debian ... lol. on Debian.
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1129[13:01:55] <n4dir> there is that short list of Martin Krafft, which i for one like. I only find it quotable in that forum post: replaced-url
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1135[13:03:32] <n4dir> if anyone searches for good entertainment on a rain day: the posts and comments of rickh (rip) will help you with that.
1136[13:03:49] <oxek> ratrace: you make good points and I am forced to admit that I don't know enough about this
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1174[13:21:41] <dob1> ,v msqlcli
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1176[13:21:57] <dob1> ,v mssqlcli
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1179[13:22:18] <dob1> ,v mssql-cli
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1185[13:23:39] <dob1> it's offline the bot of nothing means not results?
1186[13:23:46] <dob1> *no
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1191[13:26:15] <oxek> bot should be fine
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1193[13:26:30] <oxek> ,v mssql-cli
1194[13:26:47] <oxek> dob1: you can always message the bot (judd) directly
1195[13:27:12] <dob1> hey judd :)
1196[13:27:26] <oxek> looks like the netsplit removed judd
1197[13:27:51] <oxek> I wonder if there's a command to tell the bot to rejoin #debian
1198[13:28:24] <oxek> /msg judd Get back in #debian!
1199[13:29:04] <n4dir> yeah, just as you can tell users not here to rejoin.
1200[13:30:36] <oxek> n4dir: only channel ops can do that, no?
1201[13:32:02] <n4dir> i don't know, to be honest. to me bots are just strange
1202[13:32:05] <serafeim> let's suppose i do a basic installation of debian stable (no other configurations). will it use a firewall for incoming requests? will it use lvm to configure the filesystems? will it use selinux ?
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1204[13:32:31] <oxek> serafeim: debian has no firewall in default installation
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1206[13:32:39] <ksk> serafeim: it first of all depends on how you install, like "minbase server" or "desktop flavour XY"
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1208[13:32:50] <oxek> debian also uses apparmor and not selinux
1209[13:32:52] <serafeim> i want to use it as a server
1210[13:33:05] <ksk> but for the non-desktop parts I can say there is no "default firewall" - its not however that the computer is insecure in that configuration
1211[13:33:09] <serafeim> hmmm i am not familiar with apparmor. can't debian use selinux ?
1212[13:33:10] <oxek> and whether it uses lvm depends on whether you configured it to use lvm during installation
1213[13:33:16] <n4dir> serafeim: lvm you can just choose during installation, when it comes to "partitioning"
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1215[13:33:41] <ksk> serafeim: debian choose apparmor over selinux, basicly its a question of effort managing the profiles
1216[13:33:59] <ksk> !apparmor
1217[13:33:59] <dpkg> AppArmor (Application Armor, formerly SubDomain) provides pathname-based mandatory access control, a file-system neutral alternative to <SELinux>. Previously maintained by Novell and part of the Linux kernel since version 2.6.36. replaced-url
1218[13:34:02] <serafeim> ok that's good to know because i need to use lvm to be able to extend the hdd if needed
1219[13:34:14] <locsmif_work> Question, I installed apt-listchanges, but I get the following error running it: apt-listchanges: APT_HOOK_INFO_FD environment variable is not defined
1220[13:34:17] <locsmif_work> (is Dpkg::Tools::Options::/usr/bin/apt-listchanges::InfoFD set to 20?)
1221[13:34:22] <ksk> there is an "guided with lvm option"
1222[13:34:28] <serafeim> ok then i guess i need to learn some appaparmor basics. is it enabled by default in a server installation ?
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1224[13:34:59] <locsmif_work> So why is it giving me that error and should I change that setting? And how?
1225[13:35:00] <serafeim> the only thing missing is the firewall. can't i use something like ipchains with debian ?
1226[13:35:46] <locsmif_work> I've forgotten how to modify these Dpkg:: options
1227[13:36:20] *** Parts: short-bike (~short-bik@replaced-ip) ("And, on that note....")
1228[13:36:21] <oxek> serafeim: you can use btrfs or zfs instead of lvm
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1230[13:36:45] <oxek> (or many older filesystems, extending is not a problem)
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1232[13:36:53] <serafeim> oxek: not very easy for me because we have much experience using LVM and we know it works fine for our cases
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1235[13:37:14] <strk> I just upgraded from stretch to buster
1236[13:37:18] <oxek> serafeim: yes, that's fair
1237[13:37:31] <ksk> serafeim: there are frontends availablel firewalld for examample (okay, its from ubuntu, but..)
1238[13:37:35] <strk> now my indicator applet has tiny icons on the top-right corner, smaller in size than other icons
1239[13:37:37] <strk> why is that ?
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1241[13:37:50] <Haohmaru> pics or it didn't happen
1242[13:38:01] <strk> I've all big icons except that top-right corner, where icons are also stacked vertically instead of horizontally
1243[13:38:05] <serafeim> ksk: couldn't i just use ipchains directly ?
1244[13:38:25] <oxek> ipchains... that's a name I haven't heard in a long time
1245[13:38:43] <ksk> I dont even know what that is, but I am only 31 years old (looking at google)
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1248[13:38:52] <oxek> serafeim: you can use iptables or nftables, or higher level stuff like firewalld
1249[13:39:00] <ksk> last stable: 2000 - please.
1250[13:39:06] <serafeim> oxek: thank you
1251[13:39:08] <serafeim> ksk: lol
1252[13:39:19] <strk> "panel"
1253[13:39:34] <oxek> ksk: firewalld is from ubuntu? I thought it was redhat.
1254[13:39:36] <usermame> is J1900 cpu enough for a mini pc 6 lan gigabit ports debian firewall?
1255[13:39:47] <oxek> ksk: ubuntu has ufw and gufw
1256[13:40:06] <serafeim> the next version of ipchains is iptables that as a very recent version as you can see :)
1257[13:40:06] <ksk> oxek: "Maintainer: Ubuntu Developers "
1258[13:40:19] <serafeim> centos 7 uses firewalld
1259[13:40:23] <ksk> oxek: are you implying ubuntu is not 100% consistent in its development!?
1260[13:40:29] <oxek> lol
1261[13:40:30] <serafeim> i'm not sure if it from rhel or ubuntu though
1262[13:41:16] <oxek> strk: post a screenshot somewhere so that we know what you mean
1263[13:41:18] <ksk> serafeim: yes, we know iptables. BUT is has been superseeded
1264[13:41:21] <ksk> !nftables
1265[13:41:21] <dpkg> nftables is the next generation of iptables, incorporating both v4 and v6: replaced-url
1266[13:41:40] <oxek> and nftables still doesn't work well in buster
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1268[13:42:03] <oxek> unless you use the version from backports, and even then there are still some issues
1269[13:42:08] <serafeim> uh oh
1270[13:42:15] <serafeim> so what do you recommend to use for firewalling ?
1271[13:42:15] <ksk> hum, got some buster boxes I still use via "iptables" frontend, but just basic stuff.
1272[13:42:28] <n4dir> serafeim: look if you find useful info here too replaced-url
1273[13:42:48] <strk> oxek: replaced-url
1274[13:42:49] <n4dir> probably installable via apt-get, apt, aptitude, what you have
1275[13:42:50] <ksk> The Handbook is indeed a nice starting point :)
1276[13:42:51] <strk> top-right corner
1277[13:42:57] <serafeim> n4dir: thanks that's useful
1278[13:43:34] <n4dir> i found apparmor, firewall and lvm, all rather down at the bottom. But you will get that sorted
1279[13:43:56] <serafeim> i've gtg. but thank you all for the very useful info!
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1281[13:44:24] <oxek> strk: you're right, it looks odd
1282[13:44:28] <Haohmaru> strk did you try clicking around there and checking any options/settings?
1283[13:44:46] <strk> I tried clicking, yes, I found no "property" related to the whole set
1284[13:44:55] <Haohmaru> i assume those are sorta system tray icons, and they're aranged vertically, for some odd reason
1285[13:45:10] <Haohmaru> check your panel's settings
1286[13:45:18] <strk> panel settings are very terse
1287[13:45:21] <Haohmaru> what DE is this?
1288[13:45:28] <Haohmaru> or what the panel is
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1290[13:45:37] <strk> orientation, size, background
1291[13:45:37] <Haohmaru> don't tell me it's gnome
1292[13:45:39] <strk> Mate
1293[13:45:48] <Haohmaru> huh, no idea then
1294[13:46:05] <oxek> no idea here either with mate
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1296[13:46:21] <oxek> I know I had some icon size issues in xfce, and solved it by installing the papirus icon set
1297[13:46:56] <strk> increasing the size of the panel does scale those icons to become more readable
1298[13:47:14] <strk> but, well, it becomes 1/5 of the whole monitor, can't use that :)
1299[13:47:25] <strk> it's probably about the vertical stacking
1300[13:47:45] <oxek> my bet would be to find the place where you can choose icon sets. There you might find options for sizes.
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1302[13:48:06] <strk> ah, and _decreasing_ the size eventually organizes them horizontally
1303[13:48:15] <Haohmaru> huh
1304[13:48:59] <strk> so they are scalable and so "accept" to be as tiny as they want
1305[13:49:12] <strk> I guess somewhere could exist a configuration to request a minimum size of those icons
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1307[13:49:30] <Haohmaru> in my case, from debian 9 to 10, the widgets like cpu meters, RAM meters, turned into ellipses, i think they come from xfce4-panel
1308[13:49:34] <Haohmaru> it looks ugly
1309[13:50:50] <vlt> Hello. How can I add an additional partition to a block device that contains a Debian-live image generated by live-build? This is fdisk: replaced-url
1310[13:51:49] <wsky> says who
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1320[13:59:37] <strk> from #mate:
1321[13:59:39] <strk> 13:59:02 @vkareh | no, maybe a debian issue? I think debian relies on indicators a lot more instead
1322[13:59:41] <strk> | of notification-area - so maybe they disabled that option?
1323[13:59:44] <strk> does it ring any bell to you guys ?
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1328[14:03:51] <strk> because it puts the ball back in Debian hands..
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1372[14:59:46] <mspe> is it normal that an out of the box install of the ejabberd package times out for start action?
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1393[15:09:42] <ratrace> mspe: I'm gonna hazard a guess here and say: nope. kinda makes sense whe you think about it.
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1404[15:26:37] <zykotick9> vlt: when I was trying to do something similar with the regular netinst, I failed. Someone has had success however replaced-url
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1410[15:30:10] <vlt> zykotick9: Thank you :-)
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1509[17:04:51] <nifker> Why does this work on dash but not on bash? alias timestamp=("date +%2d.%2m.%4Y_%2H:%2M:%2S")
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1512[17:06:04] <jelly> nifker, why are those () there?
1513[17:06:42] <jelly> alias timestamp="date +%2d.%2m.%4Y_%2H:%2M:%2S" # works in bash
1514[17:07:10] <nifker> oh yes I see without the brackets it works
1515[17:08:30] <jelly> maybe use date -I instead od dd.mm.YYYY
1516[17:08:44] <jelly> YYYY-mm-dd is sortable.
1517[17:09:48] <jelly> %%Y-%%m-%%d_%%H:%%M:%%S or similar
1518[17:09:51] <jelly> oops
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1521[17:12:51] <zerocool> ISO8601
1522[17:13:06] <nifker> thats why I did the brackets
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1524[17:13:15] <nifker> because the alias doesnt print anything otherwise
1525[17:13:45] <zerocool> nifker: $()
1526[17:14:25] <zerocool> timestamp="$(date)"
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1529[17:16:02] <jelly> nifker, what do you mean, doesn't print anything? I just ran "timestamp" and it worked
1530[17:16:12] <zerocool> timestamp="$(date +%4Y-%2m-%2d_%2H:%2M)"
1531[17:16:18] <zerocool> echo ${timestamp}
1532[17:18:22] <mutante> one thing is "replace this with output of the command" and the other is "run this command if i type this"
1533[17:18:25] <mutante> not the same
1534[17:18:50] <nifker> Hmm I can get it to work on the command line but in my bash script it still says it cant find the command "timestamp"
1535[17:19:26] <avu> nifker: you probably defined the alias in .bashrc or somewhere else that's not sourced in scripts
1536[17:19:29] <mutante> nifker: your bash script has to define the alias or source the file that does
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1538[17:21:25] <jelly> nifker, in a shell script, better to use a function, not an alias
1539[17:21:44] <jelly> nifker, can you pastebin your actual script ?
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1545[17:23:13] <nifker> like this here: replaced-url
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1548[17:23:19] <nifker> but using a function worked now
1549[17:23:35] <nifker> (putting it into a function)
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1568[17:27:24] *** jelly sets mode: +b *!*@@2001:8a0:5e34:f00:*$##fyc
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1574[17:27:49] <jelly> fantastic.
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1666[18:07:48] <diogenes_> i, shutter
1667[18:08:13] <diogenes_> i. shutter
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1670[18:08:36] <sney> for bot triggers, the punctuation is first
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1676[18:12:53] <jhutchins> .i shutter
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1693[18:21:50] <diogenes_> apparenty it was in Stretch but not in Buster, any alternative for a screenshot tool capable to take shots with predefined resolution?
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1695[18:22:33] <ratrace> diogenes_: what do you mean by "predefined resolution"?
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1697[18:22:49] <mutante> diogenes_: do you mean "area of the screen" as opposed to the entire screen?
1698[18:23:04] <n4dir> most of the times you can install apps from elder versions of debian, newer is the problem. Depending how hardly you need an app, of course
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1704[18:25:00] <ratrace> diogenes_: scrot with option -a can do predefined coordinates, if that's what you mean
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1707[18:25:32] <diogenes_> mutante, ratrace yes in shutter you set the capture area to be the desired resolution and a square appears on the screen and you just move that square where you need and take a pic.
1708[18:26:05] <mutante> diogenes_: at least on my desktop (MATE) I get that option too if i hit SHIFT + PRTSC
1709[18:26:14] <ratrace> so dimensions, not resolution. no scrot can't do that afaik. dunno what can.
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1714[18:27:16] <diogenes_> ok i'll try if Stretch package can be installed, thank you guys.
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1719[18:33:28] <tuxmania> Hi all. I need to rename my network interface to eth0 in Debian 10. What is the right way to do it please (seen so many different ways on internet)?
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1726[18:40:51] <jelly> !spni
1727[18:40:53] <jelly> !dpni
1728[18:40:57] <jelly> !dpni
1729[18:40:57] <dpkg> To disable Predictable Network Interface naming and revert back to the old interface naming, run "ln -s /dev/null /etc/systemd/network/99-default.link" as root (without quotes). Creating this symbolic link prevents systemd from being able to change interface names. You will need to unplug/replug your device or reboot/reload module. Alternatively add net.ifnames=0 to GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX in /etc/default/grub then run update-grub and reboot.
1730[18:41:23] <jelly> tuxmania, I use the latter.
1731[18:42:12] <jelly> (on virtual machines, where I control the number and order of interfaces and VLANs anyway)
1732[18:42:39] <tuxmania> dpkg: ok, I will stick to this way. Thank you
1733[18:42:39] <dpkg> tuxmania: I give up, what is it?
1734[18:42:54] <tuxmania> jelly: thanks
1735[18:42:56] <diogenes_> Ok guys for anyone interested, flameshot basically can do what shutter could with given dimensions of the screenshot.
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1737[18:44:35] <zutat> if wonder if that null link is an actual feature
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1740[18:46:03] <sney> it's what systemd 'masking' refers to and has been documented by at least one systemd dev, with the note "This is a bit of a hidden feature in systemd, since it is not commonly useful and might be confusing the user."
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1804[19:33:53] <sponix2ipfw> sney: something with systemd that is confusing -- NEVER lol
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1806[19:35:32] <browzing> repost: Anyone running into this at all? replaced-url
1807[19:35:35] <browzing> retain access and I am basically hitting that debian bug.
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1850[20:15:13] <ratrace> 10.8 is coming up on feb 6th. feels like we've had 10.7 just the other day.....
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1854[20:21:39] <strk> it looks like "simpleid" package was removed from Debian
1855[20:21:45] <strk> do you have alternative OpenID-2.0 servers to use ?
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1927[21:34:37] <ogo> i haver installed pycharm by unpacking in /opt, then i installed package tensorflow 2.4 from within Pycharm (settings -> Python Interpreter). but running "import tensorflow" gives an "illegal instruction" error
1928[21:35:01] <ogo> apparently the installed version is compiled for a different CPU
1929[21:36:11] <ogo> so the question is can install tensorflow in any another way?
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1940[21:44:45] <gartt> Any reason why burning FreeBSD-13.0-CURRENT-amd64-20201224-3cc0c0d66a0-255241-memstick.img to USB flashdrive works fine and boots into FBSD's install, but debian-10.7.0-amd64-netinst.iso is ignored as if there's no USB stick in the drive when booting?
1941[21:45:21] <gartt> It's not just debian's ISOs, it's ubuntu's too. Only one version of ubuntu's server ISO worked, but then I got a TPM error - but at least it was recognized
1942[21:45:39] <alexrelis[m]> ogo: You ever try installing tensorflow with pip?
1943[21:46:35] <ogo> alexrelis[m], no.
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1945[21:47:05] <ogo> my pycharm project is within a virtualenv, i would like tensorfloww to be available within that virtualenv
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1948[21:47:51] <ogo> i guess i can try pip from the terminal shell inside pycharm, but pip still installs the prebuilt binary
1949[21:48:37] <ogo> apparently I need to compile tensorflow from source because all the binaries use some CPU architecture that is too recent
1950[21:49:18] <ogo> but i dont know how to compile tensorflow and make it available within the virtualenv of the pycharm
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1955[21:51:52] <ogo> replaced-url
1956[21:52:40] <browzing> usually you can enter your virtualenv with `source /path/to/virtualenv/bin/activate` -- then you can just `pip install <whatever>`.
1957[21:53:24] <ogo> browzing, ok but can pip compile a package form source?
1958[21:54:14] <browzing> generally pip install will do the right think for your system. im not familiar with the package.
1959[21:54:22] <browzing> s/think/thing
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1962[21:56:20] <browzing> The readme in the second-to-last comment on the linked github issue looks promising if you need to self-compile the binaries: replaced-url
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1967[22:00:22] <dff> looking for recommendations for a 10gbe pcei nic that works without the nonfree repo
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1986[22:24:15] <ratrace> ogo: in general pip will install precompiled wheels but you can force it to compile locally, for example to take advantage of -march=native CFLAG. you just need --no-binary :all: option for that
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2001[22:40:17] <ogo> ratrace, thanx. that is indeed what i was looking for. unfortunately compiling tensowflow ocally doesn't help though as i get the same "illegal instruction" error form the compiled tensorflow so i should look for other reasons why tensorflow doesnt work
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2039[22:55:33] <xcfe_100> anyone know how I can remap keys/add a shortcut on debian?
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2042[22:56:41] <xcfe_100> for example, lets say i want to map ctrl+E to the End key, how would i do this?
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2046[22:58:14] <theCorvus> xcfe_100, try this: replaced-url
2047[22:58:22] <theCorvus> Not tested, but seems the way
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2051[22:59:06] <xcfe_100> thanks, will check this out
2052[22:59:06] <greycat> That's a deep topic, and the answer is "it depends". You could do it at the X11 window manager level, if you're in X. You could do it at the readline level if you only want it to apply to bash and other programs that use readline. I don't *think* xmodmap can do it, because you're asking for two keys to become merged into one. If it were a simple one-to-one then xmodmap would be an option.
2053[23:00:32] <xcfe_100> i want to apply it at the X11 level
2054[23:01:11] <greycat> Then I suppose you would tell your window manager (or desktop environment) to map that combination of keys to the target key, in all contexts.
2055[23:01:32] <greycat> The way you configure that is, of course, unique to each window manager.
2056[23:01:51] <xcfe_100> im using cinnamon for the DE
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2060[23:02:49] <echelon> hi, is there a way to ssh to a host that's booted from an installer cd and start the installation prompts from ssh?
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2062[23:02:54] <echelon> installation menu prompts*
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2067[23:06:22] <sney> the debian installer has an option to continue over ssh, but it still needs to be started locally
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2070[23:06:56] <mutante> echelon: an easy way would be if the host has a management card like a DRAC on Dell servers, then you can ssh to mgmt interface and view console output vi a separate IP
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2072[23:07:19] <ratrace> ogo: are you forcing any weird CFLAGS?
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2075[23:07:39] <echelon> mutante: ah, thanks :/
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2080[23:08:52] <echelon> mutante: is there a live cd of debian that you can install from like for ubuntu?
2081[23:09:06] <mutante> echelon: yes, there is a netinstall ISO
2082[23:09:21] <mutante> that's not exactly like a live CD.. wait
2083[23:09:31] <mutante> there is also Debian Live, yea
2084[23:09:54] <echelon> yeah, i'm on netinstall
2085[23:10:01] <mutante> echelon: there used to be this: replaced-url
2086[23:10:08] <echelon> hmm
2087[23:10:16] <mutante> it's old, i dunno if it would still work
2088[23:10:29] <mutante> but it was made for "taking over" a live sytem and turn it into Debian
2089[23:10:29] <Mister00X> mutante: there is the life iso
2090[23:10:47] <Mister00X> !live
2091[23:10:48] <dpkg> The Debian Live project provides pre-built Debian live system images and allows creation of your own. These can be used to install a Debian system (although the installer is better to use). Live images are available from replaced-url
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2093[23:11:14] <Mister00X> sorry echelon was meant
2094[23:11:23] <echelon> so the debian live installer isn't the same as the netinst installer?
2095[23:11:31] <Mister00X> no
2096[23:11:42] <Mister00X> the live installer uses calamares
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2098[23:12:15] <Mister00X> idk how the debian-installer is called if not that
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2100[23:12:49] <spacedust> everything uses calamarest these days ? :D
2101[23:13:01] <spacedust> i seen some arch "distros" with a calamares installer
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2103[23:13:27] <Mister00X> Im pretty sure the d-i is not calamares but the rest...?
2104[23:13:42] <Mister00X> calamares is very configurable
2105[23:15:19] <mutante> "let's make a common installer" "yea, but let's also make it modular, super configurable and have different branding so that it feels and behaves differently on each distro"
2106[23:15:36] <ogo> ratrace: i tried pip install tensorflow --no-binary :all: but it gave me the error mentioned here replaced-url
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2108[23:16:13] <Mister00X> mutante: why not thats a very good selling point
2109[23:16:21] <ogo> so pip install tensorflow --no-binary :all actually installed tensorflow but i still got the same "illegal instruction"
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2111[23:17:53] <echelon> ok, thanks
2112[23:19:08] <echelon> replaced-url
2113[23:19:14] <echelon> debian 9 only though :/
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2116[23:21:39] <spacedust> dd for the win :D 5 minute installs :D windows 10 :D
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2121[23:25:43] <ratrace> ogo: try: CFLAGS="-O2 -march=native" pip install tensorflow --no-binary :all: on one line
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2124[23:26:13] <ratrace> ogo: without that env, you're not taking advantage of native cpu build (and then note the venv is much less portable)
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2132[23:33:56] <xcfe_100> theCorvus, i checked out the link but it looks like it can only remap a single key at a time
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2134[23:34:18] <xcfe_100> maybe its possible to send a command that sends a keypress and map that?
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2137[23:38:47] <xcfe_100> anyone have an ideas on this? i cant imagine this is not doable on linux
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2139[23:42:34] <freem> which send a keypress? maybe xdotools?
2140[23:43:03] <xcfe_100> i want to remap a key combination, such as Ctrl+E to the End key
2141[23:43:13] <xcfe_100> i see how to remap a single key with a different key
2142[23:43:18] <xcfe_100> but not sure how to remap a key combination
2143[23:43:46] <freem> xdotool key CTRL+e
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2147[23:44:04] <xcfe_100> what is xdotool?
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2149[23:44:22] <freem> a tool?
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2152[23:45:12] <xcfe_100> i mean is it installed by default, i dont see the command
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2154[23:45:25] <freem> apt-file search bin/xdotool
2155[23:45:42] <freem> this apt-file command is a nice trick, you'll love it :)
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2157[23:46:45] <xcfe_100> apt-file says command not found when i try to run it
2158[23:46:55] <freem> well, yes, you need to install it
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2160[23:47:21] <freem> I still advise you to do so, it's really,really useful
2161[23:47:42] <xcfe_100> there's no way remap the key combinations without this tool?
2162[23:48:04] <jmcnaught> ,i autokey-gtk
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2164[23:48:44] <jmcnaught> I guess judd is not around, but xcfe_100 maybe autokey-gtk is what you need
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2166[23:49:18] <xcfe_100> i dont see autokey-gtk in the package repo
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2168[23:49:57] <jmcnaught> replaced-url
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