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• 68[01:25:06] <ChiLLabiS> Can i use Debian?
• 69[01:25:45] <alex11> maybe?
• 70[01:26:18] <trench> ChiLLabiS: do you like to read?
• 71[01:26:26] <ChiLLabiS> No
• 72[01:26:38] <ChiLLabiS> Well yes if it's a caht
• 73[01:26:41] <ChiLLabiS> chat
• 74[01:27:12] <trench> So you throw away the manual for stuff?
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• 76[01:27:29] <ChiLLabiS> no what do you mean?
• 77[01:28:02] <trench> If you get an new electronic product do read the manual first?
• 78[01:28:15] <ChiLLabiS> What does this have to do with me using Debian?
• 79[01:28:32] *** Joins: Prints (~333@replaced-ip)
• 80[01:28:46] <trench> Because debian is an os you as a user is expected to find out stuff by yourself
• 81[01:29:20] <ChiLLabiS> Google and chats are my problemsolver
• 82[01:29:26] *** Quits: cnsunyour (~cnsunyour@replaced-ip) (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
• 83[01:29:28] <trench> and there is written A LOT of documentation for it
• 84[01:29:30] <ChiLLabiS> Though i should read yea
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• 87[01:30:20] <ChiLLabiS> I'm too dumb for books
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• 89[01:30:51] <ChiLLabiS> I read but can't understand stuff since i got some kind of handicapped brain
• 90[01:31:04] <trench> to me debian is kind of easy because I started with it in 91, then it was called slink
• 91[01:31:16] <ChiLLabiS> Ah ok
• 92[01:31:30] <trench> ChiLLabiS: a lot of trial and error
• 93[01:32:03] <trench> ChiLLabiS: what os do you use now?
• 94[01:32:10] <ChiLLabiS> Windows 10
• 95[01:32:33] <trench> Then download virtualbox and play with it there first
• 96[01:32:43] <ChiLLabiS> Can't run any antiviruses or and they've disabled windows defender
• 97[01:32:56] <ChiLLabiS> I've been using Debian before
• 98[01:33:10] <n4dir> Pretty much the only problem you can run in is that your hardware needs non-free drivers, and in those you won't run with VirtualBox
• 99[01:33:24] *** Quits: stefanc_diff (~stefanc_d@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 100[01:33:45] <n4dir> Those problems (usually ) can be solved, and once installed and configured Debian just works. Like any other of the big distros.
• 101[01:34:16] <n4dir> assuming something like that was the question, i didn't fully understand it
• 102[01:34:28] <trench> ChiLLabiS: do you have some old hw laying arround?
• 103[01:34:46] <trench> like a laptop you don't use for windows? :P
• 104[01:35:45] <trench> Lenovo laptops are nice to run Linux on
• 105[01:36:28] <ChiLLabiS> I've runned Debian on every pc i own
• 106[01:36:32] <ChiLLabiS> Works
• 107[01:36:53] <ChiLLabiS> Though had to google from time to time to get programs running correktly
• 108[01:37:06] <trench> I don't have a windows os anymore
• 109[01:37:13] <ChiLLabiS> because i dont think i'm Elite on non-free stuff
• 110[01:37:25] <trench> Do a hard break
• 111[01:37:38] <trench> Then you have to learn
• 112[01:37:38] <ChiLLabiS> What's a hard break?
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• 114[01:37:59] <trench> remove windows totally?
• 115[01:38:12] <trench> run it in virtualbox
• 116[01:38:13] <trench> :P
• 117[01:38:20] <ChiLLabiS> ah ok, i can't even format the disks either
• 118[01:38:35] <trench> Why?
• 119[01:38:36] <ChiLLabiS> The windows 10 usb doesn't let me
• 120[01:38:47] <trench> windows 10 usb?
• 121[01:38:55] <trench> never heard that term before
• 122[01:39:03] <ChiLLabiS> the installation media
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• 124[01:39:30] <trench> What kind of hardware you have?
• 125[01:40:01] <ChiLLabiS> amd on the pc and intel on the laptop
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• 128[01:41:05] <ChiLLabiS> I figured i change back to Debian.
• 129[01:41:22] <ChiLLabiS> Since i'm not being able to remove viruses
• 130[01:41:27] <trench> shouldn't be a problem to dualboot with grub
• 131[01:41:45] <trench> online scanner?
• 132[01:42:00] <ChiLLabiS> Windows Defender online or offline
• 133[01:42:06] <trench> eset?
• 134[01:42:27] <ChiLLabiS> what's that?
• 135[01:42:37] <trench> eset nod32
• 136[01:42:57] <ChiLLabiS> I dont know what that is
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• 138[01:45:29] <trench> replaced-url
• 139[01:47:06] <trench> replaced-url
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• 141[01:51:40] <gpunk> there is immunet, it is port of clamAV to win64 ...
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• 169[02:37:50] <ltl2> Hello.
• 170[02:38:19] <ltl2> I'd like to kindly request that Debian switch from systemd to OpenRC, please.
• 171[02:39:06] <alex11> oh boy
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• 175[02:48:07] <ltl2> can someone put it on the mailing list?
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• 177[02:48:48] <alex11> it's been discussed to death already so no, they're not going to switch to openrc
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• 179[02:51:25] <n4dir> and discussing it here sure is pointless.
• 180[02:52:02] <brachamh> i'm not that drunk yet
• 181[02:52:04] <n4dir> anything development related. If you want features in any given software, here is not the right place.
• 182[02:52:43] <brachamh> fair enough, i just don't know much of anything about that stuff anyway so i was trying to make a joke
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• 184[02:54:12] <alex11> it's an open project so you can certainly propose things via wishlist bugs... but not switching away from systemd
• 185[02:54:20] <alex11> that's been hashed and rehashed and rehashed and rehashed to death
• 186[02:54:24] <alex11> the horse is long dead
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• 188[02:54:49] <alex11> let alone the ecosystem having evolved to where it is now
• 189[02:54:59] <alex11> 9 years of systemd or whatever it is, you can't go back
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• 198[03:00:30] <n4dir> if you can switch the init system once, you can do that again.
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• 201[03:01:25] <n4dir> i'd rather wish things wouldn't change all the time.
• 202[03:03:14] <ltl2> make it optional then.
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• 205[03:03:55] <n4dir> ltl2: you probably can already. You sure can pick openrc in devuan, though it is said to be experimental.
• 206[03:04:14] *** Quits: Bjornn (~Bjornn@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
• 207[03:04:15] <ltl2> would help debian keep it's high rank
• 208[03:04:19] <ltl2> on DistroWatch
• 209[03:04:34] <n4dir> replaced-url
• 210[03:04:36] <trench> ltl2: why don't you do it?
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• 213[03:05:04] <ltl2> no what? trench
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• 215[03:05:21] <trench> ltl2: if you want something changed do it yourself?
• 216[03:05:30] <trench> contribute to the change
• 217[03:05:51] <trench> nobody is stopping you
• 218[03:06:09] <ltl2> I don't know how to program yet
• 219[03:06:24] <trench> not talking about programming
• 220[03:06:29] <trench> you want them to change
• 221[03:06:49] <ltl2> but I'd love to get Debian and Mobian mainstream with this init system
• 222[03:07:06] <n4dir> well: install openrc and use it, and see where problems occur. Report them.
• 223[03:07:13] <trench> ltl2 - replaced-url
• 224[03:07:27] <rk4> oh, can you not uninstall systemd anymore in debian? was sure you could in old-stable
• 225[03:07:42] <n4dir> as well as openrc works in devuan i doubt you will run in that many problems.
• 226[03:07:53] <jmcnaught> Learning systemd is another option. It is actually pretty great.
• 227[03:08:36] <n4dir> jmcnaught: that assumption is not always correct. There might well be people who do know how do deal with systemd and still don't want it
• 228[03:09:21] <n4dir> because more than just a few had to learn more than just one other init system to find a good replacement for systemd.
• 229[03:09:26] <ltl2> OpenRC is clearer to me, in that it's more focused in it's use case compared to systemd.
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• 232[03:10:15] <ltl2> I also watched talks on both init systems and read up on them.
• 233[03:10:18] <rk4> you don't have to argue your preference for openrc vs systemd, anymore than you should have to argue your preference for vim vs emacs
• 234[03:11:06] <ltl2> I think we could do better than the current industry/community standard.
• 235[03:11:20] <ltl2> That's why I am speaking up on this topic.
• 236[03:11:52] <rk4> where industry='redhat' hey
• 237[03:12:11] <jmcnaught> !why systemd
• 238[03:12:12] <dpkg> a tired argument. Start by reading rra's excellent analysis at replaced-url
• 239[03:12:57] <ltl2> !why openrc
• 240[03:13:28] *** Quits: eldereko (eldereko@replaced-ip) (Quit: goodbye)
• 241[03:13:40] <ltl2> industry also relies on ubuntu, debian, centos, and opensuse
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• 245[03:14:22] <ltl2> but we could retain user share if we make solid news
• 246[03:15:21] <ltl2> or even grow back to the top 5, which would ideally be sustained since debian is the granddaddy distro, lol
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• 248[03:15:56] <genr8_> i say this all the time. Debian is large enough to not have to follow redhat
• 249[03:16:35] <genr8_> the industry is sick
• 250[03:16:40] <rk4> given systemd is optional i'm not sure what this argument is about
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• 254[03:19:07] <ltl2> for me, this argument is about the security and stability that comes with the modularity of openrc
• 255[03:19:52] <ltl2> also, the user should have the freedom to pick their init system, rather than them not having an option
• 256[03:20:19] <jmcnaught> ltl2: openrc is in Debian, so is sysvinit, use whatever you want.
• 257[03:20:55] <jmcnaught> Probably for the best if non-tech support discussion about init systems moves to #debian-offtopic.
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• 294[03:56:23] <sponix> hmm.. I missed the init flame war ?
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• 315[04:41:23] <genr8_> its in off-topic
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• 347[06:00:06] <ryouma> is there a place to check what types of exploits a recently upgraded kernel fixed? e.g. with or without specially crafted data, remote entry or local privilege escalation, etc. type of categories? (i do not mean details like fix this function or fix buffer overflow. more like, what kinds of cases is the old kernel dangerous in case i want to go back to it)
• 348[06:03:08] <jmcnaught> ryouma: you can read the Debian Security Advisory (DSA) at replaced-url
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• 354[06:06:29] <ryouma> jmcnaught: thanks. it seems to not contain anything in the past couple of days. strange.
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• 419[08:02:35] <unixbsd> hello
• 420[08:02:51] <unixbsd> How to compile xcas from source on a raspberry pi zero / debian?
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• 425[08:04:57] <nkuttler> !tell unixbsd about package recompile
• 426[08:05:52] <unixbsd> thank you so much !!!
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• 441[08:23:35] <unixbsd> on debian: sagemath-jupyter : Depends: sagemath (>= 7.4-9) but it is not installable
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• 443[08:25:21] <nkuttler> !tell unixbsd about errors
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• 515[09:55:13] <genr8_> ryouma, yes it does. [19 Oct 2020] DSA-4774-1 linux security update replaced-url
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• 517[09:57:24] <genr8_> also this replaced-url
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• 527[10:09:13] <jelly> ryouma: in general, kernel people do not consistently track types of security issues _at all_
• 528[10:09:47] <jelly> the ones that gets assigned a CVE are a small subset of fixed ones
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• 532[10:14:12] <PamiPetteri> jelly, genr8_: is this fixed? --> "4.19.0-12-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.19.152-1 (2020-10-18) x86_64 GNU/Linux"
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• 534[10:14:46] <PamiPetteri> the report is from 2020-10-19 and the fix is dated 2020-10-18.
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• 551[10:32:09] <genr8_> yes thats fixed. idk why the dates are backwards. maybe timezones.
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• 553[10:33:09] <genr8_> im sure of it
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• 579[10:54:34] <ratrace> any nftables ninjas in the house.... I'm toying with iptables->nftables translators and I see some rules aren't converted. Eg, rules using the "recent" module. Any experience with that? I found some google results that suggest switching to ipsets instead.
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• 590[11:25:23] <zeroed> TIL that the option UseDNS=false (from `man systemd.network`) prevents the use of the router advertised DNS address(es) to take precedence over the configured ones. Always RTFM.
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• 593[11:34:22] <ratrace> dhcp using and setting NS entries, by default, has always been the case, with any networking config framework. systemd-network, ifupdown's dhclient or dhcpcd, ...
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• 595[11:35:57] <ratrace> in fact, that has always been a problem, as eg. disabling that with dhclient required a hacky script hook thing... and some even went as far as chattr'ing resolv.conf as immutable.
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• 649[12:46:25] <dka> I have random reboot on my debian server, from 1 to 5 times a day, yesterday I enabled persistent journalctl logging , this is the result : replaced-url
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• 655[12:55:22] <RoyK> dka: you'll need to read the logs written prior to the reboot
• 656[12:55:50] <dka> RoyK, that's the log written prior to the reboot
• 657[12:56:21] <dka> I've done yesterday: mkdir -p /var/log/journal; systemd-tmpfiles --create --prefix /var/log/journal;
• 658[12:56:30] <dka> jmcnaught, told me to: enable persistent journal (/usr/share/doc/systemd/README.Debian) and use "journalctl --boot=-1 --pager-end"
• 659[12:56:32] <dka> that's what I did
• 660[12:57:51] <RoyK> perhaps try to setup rsyslogd to log to another host. sometimes things aren't logged to disk because something came in the way, like a panic or something
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• 662[12:58:34] <RoyK> dunno if joournald can use syslog remote logging, though
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• 706[13:48:57] <hop> can i still get linux-4.9.0-8-amd64 from somewhere?
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• 717[13:52:07] <dka> does anything here shows anything about reboot : replaced-url
• 718[13:52:11] <dka> I got again a crash
• 719[13:52:52] <dka> or here in dmesg : replaced-url
• 720[13:53:18] <dka> These two lines are in red in dmesg: [ 2.236521] i915 0000:00:02.0: firmware: failed to load i915/kbl_dmc_ver1_04.bin (-2) and [ 2.236525] firmware_class: See replaced-url
• 721[13:54:03] <towo`> and why you don't install that missing firmware?
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• 725[13:55:56] <towo`> hop, 4.9.0-8-amd64 is the version of a meta-package
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• 728[13:57:32] <hop> it is?
• 729[13:57:48] <towo`> or not, i hate that versioning sheme
• 730[13:57:51] <towo`> replaced-url
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• 733[13:58:37] <hop> so many package repos… haven't come across that one, yet. thanks!
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• 741[14:05:23] <dka> towo`, how do i install it ?
• 742[14:07:09] <towo`> apt install firmware-misc-nonfree
• 743[14:07:24] <dka> dka
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• 745[14:07:46] <dka> I tought I was using the non free image of debian already, weird
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• 747[14:08:09] <dka> thanks a lot towo
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• 811[15:00:50] <szqdsegrhrdgdrg> Hi. Which one is the best Plesk or cPanel ?
• 812[15:01:09] <alex11> brdy id trlsyibr
• 813[15:01:12] <alex11> ...wow
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• 815[15:01:15] <alex11> best is relative*
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• 817[15:01:21] <alex11> try both and see which one you like more
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• 823[15:03:58] <dka> Hi, what PSU should i take for a 24/7 home server which just host docker services and a usb 4g adapter ?
• 824[15:04:21] <dka> What Wattage ? is 500 or 650 enough ? I want a strong quality, someone tole me seasonic, I can see two kind of box, gold and blue, what are the differences ?
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• 839[15:15:29] <ratrace> dka: that has nothing to do with software running but with hardware installed
• 840[15:16:07] <ratrace> you need enough watts to satisfy the CPU, RAM, disks, under full load
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• 882[15:58:27] <hackers> Howdy
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• 887[16:00:29] <hackers> would someone be able to point me in the right direction to compile a binary for another architecture from an amd64 debian instance? (taget: esp32, binary: openssl)
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• 890[16:02:16] <gpunk> you have plenty of guides on teh web
• 891[16:02:42] <gpunk> it is not practical at all to guide you here, nor the goal of this channel
• 892[16:03:39] <gpunk> basically, if supported by gcc, it is a mere definitions in your makefiles etc
• 893[16:04:06] <hackers> yeah I understand
• 894[16:04:08] <gpunk> the magic key word for search engines is "cross compiling"
• 895[16:04:08] <hackers> ok thanks
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• 897[16:05:04] <gpunk> then add to it the terget arch + debian ...
• 898[16:05:27] <gpunk> also, checkout if there is a channel here that treats esp32
• 899[16:06:07] <hackers> I realize espressif has a cross compiling tool: replaced-url
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• 901[16:06:25] <gpunk> #ESP32-offtopic
• 902[16:06:36] <hackers> yes I understand
• 903[16:07:07] <gpunk> that is the name of the irc channel on freenode :)
• 904[16:07:43] <hackers> *facepalm*
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• 914[16:21:07] <mackilanu> Hello everyone!
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• 960[17:09:44] <Rodon> how to install libxft-bgra on buster? i am using dwm...i want some color emojis .. this package is required.which is only availble in arch based distros . it may be package with different name in debian.
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• 962[17:11:29] <nkuttler> Rodon: hm, debian can display emojis just fine. why do you say you need that lib?
• 963[17:12:08] <nkuttler> or is that for emojis as part of the wm widgets and such?
• 964[17:13:33] <Rodon> ys.. debian shows emojis fine.. but in dwm this package is required because of some bug in xft library.
• 965[17:14:19] <PamiPetteri> Rodon: what is dwm?
• 966[17:14:48] <Rodon> dwm dynamic window manager !
• 967[17:15:11] <ectospasm> I use dmenu from dwm in XMonad.
• 968[17:15:38] <Rodon> interesting !
• 969[17:16:06] <Rodon> dwm is awesome.. just to show colored emjois in statusbar.. in need this package..
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• 971[17:16:28] <ectospasm> No, dwm is not awesome. It is dwm (awesome is another window manager)
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• 974[17:17:54] <ectospasm> I don't know if awesome is actively maintained, it was really buggy before I tried XMonad.
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• 976[17:18:24] <ectospasm> If I lost my xmonad.hs I'd probably give i3 a shot, but it doesn't have dynamic workspaces. Does dwm? I honestly don't know.
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• 980[17:21:02] <ectospasm> This does not give me much hope: replaced-url
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• 982[17:22:01] <hackers> I like notion a lot
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• 984[17:22:37] <hackers> it took me 13 years to install something else that was last week
• 985[17:22:40] <ectospasm> what is notion?
• 986[17:22:52] <hackers> a tiling tabbed window manager
• 987[17:23:34] <hackers> "not ion"
• 988[17:23:35] <ectospasm> I've got too much blood, sweat, and tears built into my XMonad configuration. I have no need to switch or try anything else out.
• 989[17:23:36] <Rodon> ys.. tabbing is strong focus in notion ..
• 990[17:24:16] <hackers> it used to be "ion" and the author caused distribution and/or modifications of his software due to the license he was using
• 991[17:24:46] <hackers> someone probably forked an earlier version and named it "not ion": "notion"
• 992[17:25:54] <ectospasm> does notion have dynamic workspaces?
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• 994[17:26:53] <hackers> @rodon if your mind is limited to the concept of tabbing in association with the tab key perhaps but I do feel like tabbing all day when I use it
• 995[17:27:00] <hackers> Notion - Free Tiling Tabbed Window Managernotionwm.net
• 996[17:27:26] <hackers> @ectospasm dynamic?
• 997[17:28:51] <hackers> @ectospasm it's relatively easy to modify its core functionality in lua and very ships with emacs-like key bindings by defaults
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• 1000[17:30:07] <ectospasm> hackers: yes, I like to have "workspaces," which are a set of visible windows in the current viewport. I tend to have different workspaces for different topics. It is akin to macOS "spaces," or "Mission Control." I like to keep all applications related to certain topics in their own workspace. "Dynamic workspaces" mean I can spin up and name new workspaces at will. In macOS you can't name
• 1001[17:30:09] <ectospasm> spaces (they're just numbered).
• 1002[17:31:19] <hackers> yeah it has workspaces
• 1003[17:31:34] <ectospasm> hackers: can you name them, or are they just numbered?
• 1004[17:31:37] <hackers> the default key to create a new one is F9 I think
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• 1006[17:32:30] <hackers> then you get a prompt for the type of workspace you want IIRC (tiling tabbed or other, you can even have a workspace with floating windows for when you work with tools like gimp and whatnot)
• 1007[17:33:04] <ectospasm> Yeah, in XMonad each workspace has its own layout.
• 1008[17:33:13] <hackers> try it it's pretty light then just press F1 when you're there, that'll give you the complete manual
• 1009[17:33:18] <ectospasm> I really like naming them, so I can remember what it's for.
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• 1011[17:33:34] <hackers> XMonad rings a bell but I'm not sure I remember why
• 1012[17:33:49] <ectospasm> It is a tiling window manager written in Haskell.
• 1013[17:34:10] <ectospasm> The configuration is Haskell, which makes it hard to pick up.
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• 1015[17:34:35] <ectospasm> I only learn enough Haskell to modify my xmonad.hs to do something I want, and then promptly forget it.
• 1016[17:34:49] <ectospasm> The guys in #xmonad are instrumental to my xmonad.hs
• 1017[17:35:34] <ectospasm> I've built it up for at least 10 years, so I'm loath to switch.
• 1018[17:36:16] <ectospasm> Lua is much easier IMO.
• 1019[17:37:50] <ectospasm> But if you get your xmonad.hs just right, it *NEVER* crashes. Getting it right is the hard part.
• 1020[17:39:27] <hackers> I'm more impressed by the fact you're impressed by the fact a widow manager can almost never crashed by the fact itself
• 1021[17:40:23] <hackers> but I guess that's one of the main reasons why I prefer minimalist WMs
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• 1024[17:43:52] <ectospasm> Well, I had experience with awesome before I tried XMonad, and even though I was sure my configuration was correct, it crashed all the time.
• 1025[17:44:30] <ectospasm> I haven't tried any other tiling WMs since, ever since my xmonad.hs compiled and did everything I wanted.
• 1026[17:45:53] <Rodon> xmonad/awesome/qtile are clones of dwm written in different languages.. they belong to same family..
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• 1046[17:56:47] <pufferfish> Anyone have the really old #debian logs? I need 2003ish logs. It's for my tool which brings back dead users/messages on my client side
• 1047[17:56:59] <pufferfish> It's a full-on IRC interceptor if you're wondering, so ZNC will work
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• 1049[17:57:08] <pufferfish> basically a MiTM
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• 1052[18:00:13] <pufferfish> oh, I found them
• 1053[18:00:14] <pufferfish> replaced-url
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• 1068[18:10:48] <ectospasm> I wasn't using Debian back then, sorry.
• 1069[18:10:55] <ectospasm> Otherwise I might have had them.
• 1070[18:10:57] <pufferfish> I found the logs
• 1071[18:11:08] <yanmaani> brings back dead users? where do I sign up?
• 1072[18:11:09] <pufferfish> They were archived by ibot back then
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• 1074[18:11:23] <pufferfish> yanmaani: well, I've made an interceptor. It's going well. In a few days, it'll be all ready
• 1075[18:11:27] <pufferfish> *IRC interceptor
• 1076[18:11:34] <pufferfish> It allows you to modify things on the client side
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• 1078[18:12:13] <pufferfish> and because it's editing the server responses and forwarding/returning them, ZNC will work with it
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• 1081[18:13:48] <pufferfish> yanmaani: probably going to cause #debian to become a cesspool of debian v3.x questions due to how old these logs are
• 1082[18:13:54] <pufferfish> well, on my client-side that is
• 1083[18:14:15] <yanmaani> an interceptor? what?
• 1084[18:14:19] <yanmaani> what are you gonna do with them?
• 1085[18:14:46] <pufferfish> Well, it'd be nice to be able to bring back dead channels for myself
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• 1088[18:16:42] <pufferfish> Just have to parse irclog2html's HTML output that was done by ibot back in 2003: replaced-url
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• 1106[18:42:46] <c077ee> Nvidias proprietary drivers aren't working with 5.9 at the moment in testing which is their fault but is a bit of a pain.
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• 1108[18:42:59] <c077ee> Does anyone have a patch workaround for the 5.9 series to get them to run smoothly while we wait for them to fix it?
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• 1111[18:45:09] <Brigo> c077ee, what people are doing is going back to 5.8
• 1112[18:45:12] <c077ee> Seems like the symbols its having issues with are related to –no-unified-memory
• 1113[18:45:23] <c077ee> So without CUDA possibly you can get it working for graphics which is most of the use cases.
• 1114[18:45:34] <Brigo> there is even a workaround: replaced-url
• 1115[18:45:45] <c077ee> Awesome thank you Brigo!
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• 1117[18:46:19] <c077ee> Oh he mentions we now have a 5.9 driver in unstable 450.80.02
• 1118[18:46:29] <Brigo> c077ee, thaks the author better :)
• 1119[18:46:49] <Brigo> ho, maybe there is hope after all ...
• 1120[18:47:25] <c077ee> I did a bit of background reading on it. It was around GPL symbol taint in the 5.9 series and Nvida doesn't want to taint their code with GPL
• 1121[18:47:29] <c077ee> So they just sort of let it break.
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• 1123[18:48:22] <mason> Ah, so that same thing hosed up both ZFS and nVidia.
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• 1126[18:48:43] <Brigo> ,v nvidia-drivers
• 1127[18:48:44] <judd> No package named 'nvidia-drivers' was found in amd64.
• 1128[18:48:47] <Brigo> ,v nvidia-driver
• 1129[18:48:48] <judd> Package: nvidia-driver on amd64 -- jessie/non-free: 340.106-1; stretch-proposed-updates/non-free: 390.132-1; stretch/non-free: 390.138-1; stretch-backports/non-free: 418.74-1~bpo9+1; buster/non-free: 418.152.00-1; buster-backports/non-free: 450.66-1~bpo10+1; bullseye/non-free: 450.66-1; sid/non-free: 450.80.02-1; experimental/non-free: 455.23.04-1
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• 1131[18:50:17] <c077ee> Hopefully the new amd cards will be good and I can finally get away from nvidia ^_^ But till then just another day running an nvidia card on linux.
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• 1134[18:54:44] <flayer> i am about to give up on video cards entirely
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• 1136[18:55:11] <jhutchins> flayer: Go console!
• 1137[18:55:22] <flayer> i will go skip video games
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• 1141[18:56:42] <c077ee> Honestly I have been running my current debian build for about 3 years been using linux for 16 years. The gaming situation right now between lutris, wine and proton is the best it has ever been. Really easy to get a stable gaming experience. DXVK was a game changer imo.
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• 1144[18:58:35] <flayer> all i play is dota
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• 1147[18:59:08] <flayer> but that's coming to an end too
• 1148[18:59:40] <Brigo> c077ee, i use proton in steam, big change, yes.
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• 1153[19:08:08] <ksk> I like lutris, working environments for lots of games.
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• 1160[19:16:12] <astronavt> i see some instances of "[installed,local]" in the `apt list` output. what does that mean? i'm on testing/bullseye.
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• 1162[19:17:11] <Brigo> astronavt, usually the version installed is not available in the official repository anymore (or it never was).
• 1163[19:18:04] <astronavt> aha, thats what i figured. so i have some kind of mix of old and current packages... will `dist-upgrade` clean this up?
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• 1165[19:18:32] <astronavt> it looks like some packages have been reorganized
• 1166[19:19:01] <Miles8of9> is it possible to install some packages from bullseye on buster? i would need php7.4 things
• 1167[19:19:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1186
• 1168[19:20:15] <Miles8of9> buster has 7.3 but they won't be upgraded... i'll need to wait for bullseye that will be released mid 2021..
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• 1170[19:21:41] <nkuttler> ,v php7.4
• 1171[19:21:42] <judd> Package: php7.4 on amd64 -- bullseye: 7.4.11-1; sid: 7.4.11-1
• 1172[19:21:56] <nkuttler> ,checkbackport php7.4
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• 1174[19:22:24] <judd> Backporting package php7.4 in sid→buster/amd64: all build-dependencies satisfied using buster, virtual.
• 1175[19:22:38] <nkuttler> !tell Miles8of9 about ssbp
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• 1180[19:24:38] <Miles8of9> but.. there is no php7.4 in backports....
• 1181[19:24:40] <Miles8of9> replaced-url
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• 1183[19:26:41] <Wulf> !tell Wulf about ssbp
• 1184[19:26:51] <jmcnaught> Miles8of9: you cannot safely install pacakges from bullseye on buster, you end up with a mix of both systems that is unsupportable. You can backport the php7.4 packages yourself (involves compiling).
• 1185[19:26:55] <jmcnaught> !ssb
• 1186[19:26:55] <dpkg> First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) apt update; apt install build-essential; apt build-dep packagename 4) apt -b source packagename 5) dpkg -i packagename-ver.deb To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>.
• 1187[19:27:16] <b30wulf> hey now
• 1188[19:27:37] <tds> if you don't fancy building your own backports, there's also deb.sury.org
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• 1207[19:49:19] <c077ee> I ended up going with downgrading my kernel to 5.8 as that seemed easier than maintaining the nvidia dependency list from sid without making a mess of my deps.
• 1208[19:49:26] <c077ee> It worked great :D
• 1209[19:49:44] <c077ee> Going to be a bit annoying to maintain the downgraded kernel for a couple weeks but should be able to get back on 5.9 when the sid package moves back into testing.
• 1210[19:50:07] <sponix> But all the cool kids have kernel 5.9
• 1211[19:50:23] <Onyx47> wait, so they got 450 working on 5.9?
• 1212[19:50:30] <ratrace> all the cool kids went back to 5.8 for nvidia
• 1213[19:50:46] <sponix> ratrace: I never left :)
• 1214[19:52:09] <c077ee> No there is an updated package in sid that works for 5.9
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• 1216[19:52:24] <c077ee> But like if you want to manage a testing desktop and pull in sid packages.
• 1217[19:52:36] <c077ee> Imo its just more of a pain to do that than downgrade to a stable kernel version number for a bit.
• 1218[19:53:06] <sney> and if there is a fix in sid, it'll transition to testing in a matter of days anyway
• 1219[19:53:06] <c077ee> But obviously you have to be careful to make sure you upgrade the kernel when the new driver lands in testing. Don't want to sit on a random pinned kernel forever that you never upgrade.
• 1220[19:53:14] <c077ee> +1 yep.
• 1221[19:53:27] <Onyx47> did that before for better Proton support before the version got bumped in bullseye, I don't mind it that much as a stopgap
• 1222[19:53:38] <c077ee> This is what testing/unstable is all about anyway. Workarounds, debugging things that go wrong etc etc.
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• 1226[19:55:33] <jelly> if you use testing it's not a huge deal from there to /msg dpkg tum
• 1227[19:55:44] <jelly> but also,
• 1228[19:55:46] <jelly> !debian-next
• 1229[19:55:47] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also replaced-url
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• 1233[19:57:10] <jelly> Miles8of9: there should be php7.4 builds in sury's repo
• 1234[19:57:18] <jelly> !deb.sury.org
• 1235[19:57:18] <dpkg> Short instructions for sury's php deb builds can be found at replaced-url
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• 1239[19:58:46] <jelly> Miles8of9: those might also upgrade your openssl, and might not be 100% reliable over release upgrades, but if you absolutely need 7.4 instead of just security-patched 7.3 from buster, then that's possibly the easiest thing to use
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• 1241[19:59:41] <sponix> jelly: you happen to know if the php from there is threaded ?
• 1242[20:00:12] <jelly> sponix: I have no idea, I use fpm.
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• 1245[20:01:08] <sponix> jelly: I had one from an outside repo for 7.4 that told me it couldn't work with apache mod_event threading because it wasn't threaded to handle such. And yes, this was the php-fpm 7.4 of that build
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• 1247[20:01:48] <jelly> sponix: that sounds like bullshit? apache talks to fpm over a unix domain socket
• 1248[20:01:51] <sponix> jelly: So, of course I tucked my tail between my legs and went back to the faithful Buster 7.3 php-fpm from the debian repo
• 1249[20:02:24] <sponix> jelly: It might have been a BS Line that it was feeding me, but apache would fail to start because of it :P
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• 1252[20:04:35] <sponix> jelly: odds are it was just an error on my part. I might give it another go next weekend to verify
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• 1254[20:05:13] <jelly> sponix: my private vps is running with mpm_event and php7.3-fpm from sury
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• 1256[20:06:26] <sponix> jelly: cool.. but why would you use an outside source for 7.3 when it is already in Buster ?
• 1257[20:06:43] <jelly> used to be stretch until very recently
• 1258[20:06:52] <sponix> oh
• 1259[20:08:03] <jelly> threadedness of php is only relevant for apache if you use mod_php
• 1260[20:08:56] <jelly> (and one shouldn't be using mod_php without _very_ good reasons)
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• 1316[20:58:55] <jhutchins> !errata
• 1317[20:58:55] <dpkg> Last minute notes regarding Debian 10 ("Buster") are listed at replaced-url
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• 1319[21:00:41] <jhutchins> There don't appear to be any errata for Buster.
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• 1330[21:12:22] <raidghost> Ive heard that python is a nice way to solve things. True?
• 1331[21:12:46] <sponix> raidghost: it can also be a great way to break your distro :)
• 1332[21:13:06] <sponix> raidghost: might ask about using the virtual environments to avoid that before dabbling too much
• 1333[21:14:15] <karlpinc> Looks like I've lost all my grub-fu. I've a VM and have booted into a rescue mode, this gives me a rw mounted copy of my / device, which is the only device. And another device which is my actual /.
• 1334[21:14:44] <karlpinc> I want to change the default boot image, to boot into the previous kernel.
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• 1336[21:16:22] <karlpinc> update-grub does not work when chrooted into the actual /. What's the right way to frob the default boot menu item in grub?
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• 1339[21:17:30] <sponix> karlpinc: for update-grub to work you likely need a few command to go along with the chroot
• 1340[21:17:56] <karlpinc> sponix: Yeah. Something to get the devices right.
• 1341[21:19:29] <sponix> replaced-url
• 1342[21:19:35] <sponix> should go something like that
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• 1344[21:20:11] <sponix> with whatever your root partition device is named of course, and also possibly needing to mount EFI if that comes into play
• 1345[21:20:25] <karlpinc> sponix: Thanks.
• 1346[21:20:36] <raidghost> sponix: breake a distro? tell me more about that :p
• 1347[21:21:10] <raidghost> I allready having issues with a supermicro that seems to live its own life on "maybe" A buggy kernel version.
• 1348[21:21:23] <jmcnaught> replaced-url
• 1349[21:21:47] <raidghost> For some weird reasons it suddenly just goes into "Neeh. Dont want to respond at all. Freeze like icecubes
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• 1352[21:22:50] <raidghost> dmesg doesnt say much of what happends. Since it seems to stop logging when the server just "neeh i just stand here doing nothing"
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• 1359[21:40:09] <karlpinc> !serialconsole
• 1360[21:40:25] <karlpinc> !serial console
• 1361[21:40:26] <dpkg> A serial console can be used to administrate a system or capture kernel crash/panic information. replaced-url
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• 1370[21:52:11] <velix> Interesting. I want to uninstall php7.4-fpm and apt wants to install apache2 apache2-bin ;)
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• 1372[21:53:41] <alex11> apache is just THAT good
• 1373[21:53:48] <alex11> should come preinstalled with debian, tbh
• 1374[21:53:50] <alex11> (/s)
• 1375[21:54:14] <velix> alex11: yeah, with all the addons pre-activated.
• 1376[21:54:46] <velix> ah, aptitude is smarter
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• 1386[22:07:58] <raidghost> karlpinc: so you saying i can get logging view out of the serialconsole?
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• 1391[22:13:10] <karlpinc> raidghost: You can often see what's broken via a serial console that you can't see in other ways. Because the kernel can write to the serial console without network, or video. It's dirt simple, so messages that get lost when sent to other places make it through to a serial console.
• 1392[22:13:48] <karlpinc> raidghost: Not to say that every kind of crash/hang will be able to be diagnosed with a serial console. But it's the most robust method.
• 1393[22:15:31] <pillule> Hi. I have an headache with info pages and Emacs : there are several missing info pages in my dir file, even after installing the package `emacs-common-non-dfsg', a whole bunch of things are missing. Even the bash info file is missing ! On the other side I have a fedora and it ships all the infos pages I need like Magit, Dash … etc. What happens here?
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• 1395[22:20:04] <karlpinc> pillule: Some GNU docs are non-free, according to the Debian free software guidelines. All those info pages that you don't have are likely in the non-free repo. Installing the emacs docs just install the emacs docs. You need to install similar for bash, etc.
• 1396[22:20:09] <karlpinc> !dfsg
• 1397[22:20:09] <dpkg> DFSG is the Debian Free Software Guidelines, which are explained at replaced-url
• 1398[22:22:23] <pillule> Yes I read about that in my quest to have a correct suite of info pages
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• 1400[22:23:32] <raidghost> karlpinc: but if the machine freezes. like NO respond at all. it still output to serial console?
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• 1402[22:25:04] <karlpinc> raidghost: Depends on what made it freeze.
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• 1405[22:31:15] <pillule> ok bash-doc will bring an info page. git-doc will not. I guess there is no list to missing infos pages packages
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• 1416[22:44:03] <jhutchins> pillule: info pages usually indicate a program that was pre-Linux, pre-manpage. Their manpages were often the result of converting the info page, with various success. Purely linux projects, except for very early ones and ones intended to be cross-platform never had info pages.
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• 1429[22:53:14] <pillule> yes. but still some peoples use this format because it is well integrated inside emacs.
• 1430[22:55:07] <ryouma> so there is info to man but not man to info :/
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• 1432[22:55:23] <ryouma> then again it would be rather huge info if you had everything in it
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• 1441[23:01:50] <david0374> hello
• 1442[23:02:28] <sney> hi
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• 1454[23:13:37] <karlpinc> pillule: One way to approach the problem is to find the source package. Then sources.debian.org will (indirectly via looking at the 'debian' directory, maybe at the "control" file?) tell you what packages are built from the source. One of those will be a documentation package.
• 1455[23:14:33] <jmcnaught> Could use apt-file to find all packages with files in /usr/share/info
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• 1460[23:17:14] <jmcnaught> apt-file search usr/share/info | cut -d':' -f 1| sort -u
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• 1464[23:21:02] <pillule> nice I wasn't aware of apt-file.
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• 1470[23:26:07] <pillule> Can I somehow download only the docs instead of whole packages ?
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• 1473[23:28:40] <jmcnaught> Some have separate -doc packages.
• 1474[23:29:31] <jhutchins> pillule: Kindof like there's 8bit to 64bit, but not 64 to 8.
• 1475[23:29:38] <jhutchins> pillule: Kindof like there's 8bit to 64bit, but not 64 to 8.
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• 1477[23:29:50] <jhutchins> ops.
• 1478[23:30:06] <dvs> oops
• 1479[23:30:11] <jmcnaught> spoo
• 1480[23:30:20] <pillule> :)
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• 1482[23:31:03] <jhutchins> pillule: One thing you might try is going outside of Debian. I think you said Fedora had all the docs? If not there, then you can go to something like FreeBSD and see if they have them.
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• 1492[23:35:07] <pillule> ok for now I will just try to get the packaged doc I can and make something to compile theses I get from git
• 1493[23:35:12] <pillule> ty
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• 1497[23:38:50] <karlpinc> pillule: The idea behind looking at the source package is to find the doc package name and install it.
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• 1500[23:40:44] <jhutchins> pillule: Note that there may be subtle differences between different distributions of emacs.
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• 1506[23:47:32] <pillule> karlpinc: I am afraid I don't understand your suggestion, surely because I am not familiar with source.debian.osg
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• 1514[23:55:52] <karlpinc> pillule: It might not be the best way to find the docs which go with a particular package. (I just tried it for emacs and there's a separate source package just for the docs, which is no help.)
• 1515[23:56:31] <pillule> also just trying to install the doc packages seems to be naive in the sense of it seems to carry others packages example : for DOC in $(sudo apt-file search usr/share/info/ | cut -d':' -f 1| sort -u | grep doc) ; do sudo apt install $DOC; done The following additional packages will be installed: docbook-xml docbook-xsl libosp5 libtext-unidecode-perl libxml-libxml-perl libxml-namespacesupport-perl libxml-sax-base-perl
• 1516[23:56:31] <pillule> libxml-sax-expat-perl libxml-sax-perl opensp sgml-base sgml-data texinfo xml-core xsltproc
• 1517[23:58:21] <pillule> wait. okay my bad
• 1518[23:58:36] <pillule> I must be smarter with this grep
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