Realtime Nick Name Ticker of #debian at freenode (ICQ IRC service)

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14[00:19:41] <touchiz> hellow
15[00:19:48] <touchiz> how to my WindowsManager ?
16[00:19:52] <touchiz> i use Kali 2.0
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31[00:35:11] <fpat> touchiz: please visit the chatroom meant for kali users
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35[00:38:16] <skapata> I am using Debian Buster, and /usr/sbin disappeared from root's $PATH. I've added "source /etc/profile" to .bashrc and it solved the problem for the command "su", but not for "su -c". Did it already happen to anyone here? How can "su -c" find the right $PATH? And: anyone knows why $PATH has automatically changed?
36[00:38:34] <fpat> !debian next
37[00:38:41] <fpat> hmmm
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39[00:40:55] <fpat> :D
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43[00:46:21] <abrotman> skapata: if you just "su -" instead of "su", it'll be fine
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47[00:49:49] <skapata> Did you mean instead of "su -c"?
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50[00:50:43] <skapata> I've already fixed $PATH for "su", but it does not work for "su -c".
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56[00:57:04] <fpat> !debian-next fpat0
57[00:57:04] <dpkg> fpat0: #debian-next is a channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net).
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63[00:58:44] <fpat> strange, my clone got a different version than my private messaging
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65[00:59:39] <fpat> ah, the bot channel. yes
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155[01:02:53] -debhelper- Channel locked temporarily due to flood, sorry for any inconvenience this may cause :-)
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160[01:04:12] <fpat> 2018: eggdrop still gets them :D
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179[01:05:19] <dvs> there's the cause! ;-)
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193[01:09:29] <fpat> so many things are amazing for me
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230[01:29:55] <annadane> how can i diagnose why qbittorrent isn't starting? it was working fine, then i set the option "start qbittorrent minimized", then it wouldn't start (after logging out from i3 and into xfce), invoking it from the terminal just exits after a few seconds with a blank line, tried deleting .config/qbittorrent, same result
231[01:29:59] <annadane> i guess i could strace
232[01:30:58] <annadane> i see there's a process running
233[01:31:22] <annadane> well, ok. i killed it and now it starts
234[01:33:06] <annadane> not sure why the torrents are still there, either they're located somewhere else than .config/qbittorrent or the running process somehow kept me from deleting them
235[01:36:28] <kale> hi i am trying to build with gtk+ and glade in codeblocks, but get a mix lib error. could you point me to the correct channel for this?
236[01:37:34] <altker128> kale: Probably a C or C++ channel
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239[01:40:57] <annadane> .local/share/data/qBittorrent/BT_backup/ apparently
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258[02:01:51] <fpat> there were people some time ago with strange bash behavior. that was not resolved so far, right?
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260[02:03:04] <fpat> i can not invoke ~/bin/youtube-dl from within ~/Music except when i use the full path. the pass was not changed by me tho
261[02:03:26] <fpat> pass/path
262[02:04:04] <coruja> echo $PATH && ls -l ~/bin/
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264[02:05:17] <fpat> thats odd. default path now and my custom one is gone
265[02:05:41] <fpat> .bashrc like i had not touched it
266[02:06:20] <fpat> but the older edit about PS1 is still there. so that was not a script accident
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269[02:15:29] <tomreyn> could be selinux or apparmor or whatever getting in the way, though that'd be quite the bug.
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273[02:16:55] <fpat> i dont use apparmor or selinux so far
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277[02:18:21] <tomreyn> do you use malware, or does someone else use it on your computer? ;)
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279[02:19:01] <fpat> hehe, well!
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281[02:19:25] <fpat> no, i installed it a few days ago. so that was quick
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284[02:20:26] <tomreyn> hmm, quite peculiar
285[02:20:54] <fpat> there was something else yesterday. thats why i rebooted. the tab key no longer worked for switching between windows
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291[02:25:55] <fpat> ah, i see parallels to annadane's situation
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293[02:27:28] <fpat> either browsing with krusader or browsing the web with firefox-esr could be the cause
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308[02:40:18] <skapata> I'm trying to find out why my root's $PATH was automatically changed. So, after executing su, I've typed these commands: replaced-url
309[02:41:42] <skapata> (I've commented the line "source /etc/profile" that I wrote by myself in .bashrc)
310[02:41:53] <fpat> yeah, skapata. me too
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312[02:43:13] <fpat> and it cant be overwritten by a package. the older line of me is still there
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326[02:52:50] <maize-haze> Hi there. I need some help figuring out issues with installing Debian 9.5.0 on the Intel Skull Canyon NUC. I am experiencing a strange visual effect where the Debian text based installer appears 10 times in very tiny "windows" at the top of the screen, making it impossible to read text in the installer.
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329[02:55:00] <maize-haze> For what it's worth: I've done my research (Googling, etc.) and tried two different display outputs (HDMI, Mini-Displayport) to no avail. The graphical installer doesn't even load, which is even less productive. Does anyone have any insights as to what could cause this and/or how to fix it?
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334[02:58:00] <maize-haze> i see... nobody is online?
335[02:58:01] <sussudio> maize-haze: replaced-url
336[02:58:59] <maize-haze> This isn't that issue -- this is a desktop, not a laptop, the GRUB menu remains on screen, and my display is 4K not 768.
337[03:00:26] <sussudio> if you can't see that the problem is similar and you should adapt it to your situation, i'm done.
338[03:00:31] <maize-haze> The top half also isn't garbled -- it's actually 10 very tiny vterms, all side-by-side at the top of the screen.
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340[03:02:21] <sussudio> so kill the window manager.
341[03:02:35] <maize-haze> This is the text-based installer.
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343[03:03:16] <mason> maize-haze: You might be able to poke at the display mode from the installer's GRUB.
344[03:03:45] <sussudio> that's the first thing i suggested and he doesn't want to.
345[03:04:18] <mason> sussudio: Ah, hadn't read the link. But I've seen gop-gone-bad on my hardware.
346[03:04:39] <maize-haze> "doesn't want to"? I'm sorry, linking me an answer about a laptop display that has almost no similarity to my issue, then saying I should restart the display manager when I clearly state that this is a text-based installer is not "doesn't want to", it's "refusing useless advice".
347[03:04:39] <mason> maize-haze: Yar, follow sussudio's link.
348[03:04:51] <sussudio> if, for some reason, you can't get the video to work, do a serial console install?
349[03:04:56] <mason> maize-haze: You're on a modern system. It isn't text.
350[03:05:39] <maize-haze> Then why does one say "graphical installer"?
351[03:05:55] <mason> maize-haze: Irrelevant. I'm saying the text isn't in fact a plain text display.
352[03:06:15] <mason> But anyway, sussudio gave you a good answer. Up to you if you do it.
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357[03:10:11] <sussudio> i found why an upgrade to wheezy made my screen an unreadably high resolution... it replaced my fbdev-blacklist.conf without asking me.
358[03:10:27] <annadane> "upgrade to wheezy"
359[03:10:29] <annadane> jesus christ
360[03:10:32] <sussudio> i can't see why anyone would want a 1920x1080 text console.
361[03:10:55] <sussudio> oh you again.
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364[03:15:37] <abrotman> sussudio: because you have a 50" monitor :)
365[03:15:52] <mason> abrotman: o/
366[03:15:56] <abrotman> howdy
367[03:16:08] <abrotman> sorry, I saw that the other day, but it was much later
368[03:16:15] <mason> No worries.
369[03:16:27] <mason> I seem to be deploying more Debian lately, so I figured I'd hang out in here again.
370[03:16:57] <sussudio> abrotman: no, it's 24" or something, and i'm only using it because the other one started to leak liquid from the power cable connector for some reason.
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372[03:17:16] <abrotman> sussudio: that sounds awesome ...
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374[03:17:52] <sussudio> i really dislike lcd anyway. my trusty crt got rained on and started blinking.
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599[08:21:09] <likcoras> How can I make weechat set 0644 on new log files?
600[08:21:32] <likcoras> #weechat generally is not willing to support older versions, so I'm asking here instead...
601[08:23:04] <mdk> likcoras: 0644 instead of what? Setting a umask may help
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603[08:23:51] <likcoras> weechat automatically sets 0600 on log files, my umask is 0022, weechat just explicitly sets 0600 when creating new log files.
604[08:24:21] <mdk> ok
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610[08:28:36] <kopper> likcoras: Why do you need to give read permission to someone else than owner?
611[08:29:04] <kopper> I mean, aren't you the owner of log file?
612[08:29:34] <likcoras> I want to be able to read the logs served over my webserver (behind proper authentication, of course), but replaced-url
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614[08:29:55] <kopper> Ah.
615[08:30:48] <likcoras> Luckily, it doesn't re-set the permissions, so I can just chmod it and it will stick, but new buffers are not readable unless I re-set permissions.
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619[08:31:50] <kopper> Create a script which checks file permissions in log folder every 5 sec or so, and changes them to 644 if they are something else
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624[08:33:58] <likcoras> I was doing something similar, I run chmod before logrotate.
625[08:34:08] <likcoras> I guess that's all that I can do for now, then welp.
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627[08:34:53] <eyeoh> my quick and dirty first thought was to set a script too
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629[08:36:14] <eyeoh> likcoras: also, is this for multiple log files? Because shouldn't it remember permissions if you set it once for a log file?
630[08:36:43] <likcoras> Yeah, it's maintained, but I need to re-run when I eg. open a new query or join a new channel.
631[08:36:48] <eyeoh> i.e., how often do you need this to happen?
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633[08:37:51] <likcoras> Not super often, but it's something I need to remember occasionally when I want to look at the logs after joining a new channel.
634[08:38:03] <likcoras> Logrotate runs daily, so I often need to run the script manually.
635[08:38:25] <eyeoh> I'm just trying to think of the most elegant way to do this
636[08:39:13] <eyeoh> crontab every 24 hours just before logrotate runs to chmod 604 folder/* ?
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638[08:39:34] <eyeoh> although they can be easy to forget, so a separate script might be safer
639[08:39:58] <eyeoh> (or a crontab to run said script..)
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641[08:40:04] <likcoras> That's essentially my current setup, but still requires me to re-run if I need to look at logs before the crontab runs
642[08:40:13] <eyeoh> php :p
643[08:40:26] <kopper> Just set the crontab to run it more often?
644[08:41:06] <eyeoh> and just for the record, irssi logs appear to be 600 by default too
645[08:41:18] <likcoras> I'd expect 600 by default, too.
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647[08:42:38] <likcoras> I'll run the script more frequently, I guess. Thanks everyone!
648[08:43:29] <eyeoh> it shouldn't take any more resources
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671[09:02:33] <diogenes_> Hello guys, what is the different between 9.5.0-live/ and current-live/, at first sight the isos look the same.
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673[09:05:02] <Fox> once 9.6 will be current you'll see a difference ;)
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675[09:05:49] <diogenes_> Fox, but the installed packages are the same as 9.5.0-live?
676[09:05:56] <diogenes_> i mean at the moment
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678[09:06:19] <Fox> at the moment 9,5 is current, so there's no difference
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681[09:07:04] <diogenes_> Fox, so there's absolutely no difference atm, it's like just the same iso but put into two different directories?
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683[09:08:57] <Fox> diogenes_: did you check both sha sums ? it's the only way to tell they are exactly the same
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685[09:10:25] <diogenes_> Fox, i've never used debian, i used only a few debian based so i'm kind of a newbie here, completely clueless about how debian's roadmap works and i couldn't find any comprehensive info on the debian page so i decided to ask here.
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689[09:14:02] <somiaj> diogenes_: debian is a mostly frozen system. The only changes that happen to stable are security and serious/grave bug fixes.
690[09:14:30] <diogenes_> somiaj, and what about kernel updates?
691[09:14:49] <somiaj> diogenes_: the only difference between 9.5 and 9.6 is those fixes, you can install any version of debian stretch (even 9.0) and upgrade to the current version with all the bug and security fixes.
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693[09:15:10] <somiaj> diogenes_: the only kernel updates are security/bug fixes. There was a recent one (newer than 9.6) that if you ahve debian security sources, you can upgrade too
694[09:15:26] <somiaj> debian tries not to change things (frozen system) but only when required, which boils down to secuirty/bugs
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697[09:15:54] <diogenes_> somiaj, so just sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade will keep you up to date with the latest security fixes?
698[09:16:03] <somiaj> (note frozen is not always possible, and with some software is getting harder and harder, browers are already fixed by newer versions and in stretch vlc had to upgrade to 3.0 due to not able to backport security fixes.
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700[09:16:33] <klys> you need a stretch-updates or stretch/updates source.
701[09:16:53] <somiaj> you may to do apt dist-upgrade, but yes, that is all you need to do
702[09:17:23] <somiaj> stretch/updates is the security one
703[09:18:30] <somiaj> !stretch sources.list
704[09:18:30] <dpkg> A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Stretch" has three lines: "deb replaced-url
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708[09:19:26] <diogenes_> somiaj, so the apt/sources.list comes by default with that config or i need to add some of them manually?
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711[09:22:04] <somiaj> the installer should set most of it up, but that factiod gives you an idea what sould be there
712[09:22:35] <ArahaelPi> Is it possible to set up a transparent proxy that works for HTTPS sites, such that it's 1. Trusted, and yet 2. Doesn't extend that trust to third party certificates - if those are flawed, then they should still be blocked.
713[09:22:48] <diogenes_> ok thanks somiaj klys and Fox, i'm gonna try the live cinnamon.
714[09:23:24] <ArahaelPi> In other words, if Iw ere to go to my banking site, via this proxy, then I should be able to "trust" my proxy (afterall, I set it up, it's effectively an extension of my desktop), but if some other website has hijacked it and I'm not expecting THAT, it should still be able to show a MITM attack.
715[09:24:09] <ArahaelPi> ie, Me <-> Trusted Proxy <-> MITM Attacker <-> Bank; I should still be able to determine, clearly, that the MITM attacker is not representing the bank.
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724[09:29:43] <Bustin> Hello, new user to debian and linux, but had a question. Is it possibe if I'm running debian stretch, to install a package from buster or sid?
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726[09:31:41] <ArahaelPi> Bustin: Possible, yes, but not recommended at all.
727[09:31:41] <somiaj> no
728[09:32:03] <ArahaelPi> !ssb
729[09:32:03] <dpkg> First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) aptitude update; aptitude install build-essential; aptitude build-dep packagename; apt-get -b source packagename; 4) install the resultant debs. To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>.
730[09:32:08] <somiaj> well yes possible, but the question should have been, is it safe, and the answer is in most cases no. Use a backport, or other wasy to get newer software
731[09:32:11] <somiaj> !don't break debian
732[09:32:11] <dpkg> i heard dont break debian is replaced-url
733[09:32:15] <somiaj> might be a good link to start with too
734[09:32:55] <ArahaelPi> Bustin: Also, whilst debian testing will eventually become stable, mixed distros and especially sid, never ever becomes stable.
735[09:34:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1240
736[09:35:44] <cfoch> Hello, I am trying Debian as a Dom0 over a Xen Hypervisor... I have support for HVM and according forums you recognize a HVM guest VM if it has /dev/sda or /dev/hda partitions instead of /dev/sda... But according "xl list --long" my VM is HVM. I need a /Dev/sda partition because the distro i need install doesn't recognizes the /dev/xvda as a disk
737[09:37:01] <cfoch> If i set vdev to sda it loads it as xvda anyway
738[09:38:07] <Bustin> Thank you.
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741[09:40:41] <cfoch> Or maybe there is an option un Xen setting everything by default yo xvda but I AM not sure
742[09:40:51] <ArahaelPi> somiaj: Actually, saying "no", assuming that the original question was really asking "is it safe...", can backfire. Because if they then go and continue doing their research (why trust a random on IRC?), they may find that they can technically get the crap installed.
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744[09:42:33] <somiaj> also asking xy problems are best to be avoided, asking what software you want a newer version of and why would get the best response. Some software is to much of a pain to backport and that can be learned
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774[10:31:26] <beepnboop-> should i install xfce on "strong" desktop pc?
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779[10:33:19] <beepnboop-> asking this stupid question cause i read that its really light weight de
780[10:33:59] <beepnboop-> so shouldn't more weighty de be more appropriate?
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783[10:35:11] <ksqsf> beepnboop-: install it if you like it
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785[10:35:53] <kopper> Why would you install something heavier you don't like to use just because your pc can handle it?
786[10:36:16] <kopper> If you like xfce, use it
787[10:37:05] <slax0r> so you mean, I can add stronger hardware even if my tiling wm doesn't need it?!
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789[10:38:13] <ksqsf> slax0r: you do use anything other than WMs, don't you?
790[10:38:27] <slax0r> yes, terminal emulator
791[10:38:38] <stevendale> I use Linux Mint 19 XFCE not because it is lighter, but because I prefer XFCE over Cinnamon or MATE
792[10:38:43] <slax0r> and a browser
793[10:38:50] <stevendale> If I liked Cinnamon or MATE more than XFCE, I'd use them
794[10:39:05] <stevendale> Unused computer resources are wasted computer resources, and wasted money
795[10:39:20] <stevendale> But just because you can run it, doesn't mean you should
796[10:39:26] <stevendale> You should run what you enjoy using
797[10:39:31] <stevendale> Regardless of the overhead
798[10:41:02] <stevendale> Though there is a line to draw, if you try to run KDE Plasma on a 2 core 4 thread, Intel Atom, and enjoy running KDE on faster machines, that's not smart, because it won't run 'enjoyably' on a Dual core Atom
799[10:41:57] <stevendale> Linux is good because everybody can have a personal favourite and use what they want to
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801[10:43:11] <slax0r> unused resources are wasted yes, but this doesn't mean you should run SETI all the time, just to keep the iron busy
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815[11:02:19] <comphuse> I am considering switching to debian testing. Any significant bugs I should be aware of before migrating?
816[11:02:36] <stevendale> aNope comphuse
817[11:02:40] <stevendale> You're good to go
818[11:02:51] <stevendale> Just reboot after you've upgraded
819[11:03:00] <epicmetal> comphuse: nothing except lack of timely security updates
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848[11:37:17] <fUNKIAM`> hi all
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851[11:38:35] <Azimoth> Hi, I just discovered that there's a way to update intel microcode early during boot an Gentoo and checked whether this also works on Debian (stretch). Unfortunately "dmesg | grep "microcode updated early to" returns nothing... what am I missing?
852[11:38:54] <jelly> comphuse, well, there are always bugs in testing, if there weren't it would be declared stable
853[11:40:01] <epicmetal> Azimoth: works for me on Sid
854[11:40:14] <jelly> Azimoth, is intel-microcode package installed? Which debian release are you using?
855[11:40:31] <petn-randall> Azimoth: works for me on stable. You need to have the {amd,intel}-microcode installed, and it'll do the magic for you.
856[11:40:42] <jelly> it's usually the first line in dmesg, even before Linux ...
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860[11:43:59] <eyeoh> maybe also just grep for microcode, single word only
861[11:44:56] <Azimoth> jelly: intel-microcode is installed, I'm using Debian Stretch (and the backported version of intel micocode)
862[11:46:04] <Azimoth> the first line of dmesg is "Linux version 4.9.0-7-amd64 (debian-kernel@replaced-ip) (gcc version 6.3.0 20170516 (Debian 6.3.0-18+deb9u1) ) #1 SMP Debian 4.9.110-3+deb9u1 (2018-08-03)"
863[11:46:37] <jelly> thne you've got everything for things to work. Perhaps there's no microcode for your cpu?
864[11:47:09] <eyeoh> lscpu ?
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867[11:47:33] <petn-randall> Azimoth: From skimming some webpages, the "microcode updated early" is deprecated and won't be printed in newer kernels.
868[11:48:01] <Azimoth> petn-randall: Then I'd suggest updating replaced-url
869[11:48:02] <jelly> on my i3-4130 and stretch and 4.16.0-0.bpo.2-amd64 kernel, [11:39] ~ => sudo dmesg|head -n1
870[11:48:02] <jelly> [ 0.000000] microcode: microcode updated early to revision 0x24, date = 2018-01-21
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873[11:48:41] <Azimoth> eyeoh: I assume the important information is this one "Model name: Intel(R) Atom(TM) x5-Z8350 CPU @ 1.44GHz"
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875[11:48:53] <epicmetal> petn-randall: I'm running a 4.18 release candidate
876[11:49:13] <petn-randall> Hmm, interesting. I have intel-microcode installed, but not this message.
877[11:49:24] <petn-randall> Maybe the one in the BIOS is current enough.
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880[11:50:08] <eyeoh> off the top of my head, intel atom shouldn't be affected by meltdown/spectre right? or not?
881[11:51:13] <petn-randall> It should.
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883[11:51:40] <eyeoh> and just for the record, fedora 28 with 4.17.11-200: Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-4130 CPU @ 3.40GHz "0.000000] microcode: microcode updated early to revision 0x24, date = 2018-01-21"
884[11:51:41] <jelly> the "atom" brand spans like 6+ generations of CPUs
885[11:52:32] <Azimoth> jelly: "dmesg | grep microcode" returns two lines... these: "microcode: sig=0x406c4, pf=0x1, revision=0x410" and "microcode: Microcode Update Driver: v2.01 <tigran@aivazian.fsnet.co.uk>, Peter Oruba"
886[11:52:33] <Azimoth> jelly: this seems to me like there is something happening, just not as early as it could (or the message is actually removed)
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888[11:53:09] <eyeoh> I get those two lines too; so I get three lines with that word
889[11:53:34] <eyeoh> hmm what's rev 0x410 - that seems bigger than mine
890[11:53:59] <eyeoh> microcode: sig=0x306c3, pf=0x2, revision=0x24 | microcode: Microcode Update Driver: v2.2.
891[11:54:22] <Azimoth> eyeoh: maybe because I use the backported version?
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901[12:00:29] <petn-randall> I wonder if there's a way to compare microcode versions. I imagine my BIOS vendor already has a current one, so it doesn't get loaded.
902[12:00:36] <petn-randall> (x230 with latest BIOS here)
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909[12:03:53] <jelly> Azimoth, I think that's the driver that comes later and is not actually used, and just reports the current version
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912[12:04:18] <toruvinn> uh wb.
913[12:04:18] <jediofthecode> ,backportupgrade appmenu-gtk-module
914[12:05:29] <Azimoth> jelly: so the wikipage should be updated to remove the "microcode updated early" part as version check?
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916[12:05:41] <jelly> eyeoh, microcode firmware is cpu model specific (with some overlap for cpus within same generation), each cpu model has their own separate revisions
917[12:05:45] <toruvinn> in stretch, do i need to edit grub.cfg to add resume=swappartition after dpkg-reconfigure uswsusp?
918[12:05:47] <Azimoth> jelly: this one replaced-url
919[12:06:00] <toruvinn> i remember that in old Debian I catually had to do this, scripts didn't resume otherwise.
920[12:06:11] <toruvinn> s/catu/actu/ (nice typo!)
921[12:06:47] <jelly> Azimoth, I don't think so.
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923[12:07:45] <jediofthecode> what is the command to check backport compat again ?
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925[12:08:32] <Azimoth> jelly: So, there is something misconfigured on my system? (Because the check doesn't work)
926[12:10:53] <jelly> Azimoth, hard to say. Perhaps you just don't have microcode available, even if Intel says intel-microcode 20180807 is relevant for your cpu: replaced-url
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929[12:11:14] <jelly> ,v intel-microcode
930[12:11:15] <judd> Package: intel-microcode on amd64 -- wheezy/non-free: 1.20150121.1; jessie-backports/non-free: 3.20170511.1~bpo8+1; stretch/non-free: 3.20170707.1~deb9u1; jessie-backports-sloppy/non-free: 3.20180425.1~bpo8+1; stretch-backports/non-free: 3.20180425.1~bpo9+1; jessie/non-free: 3.20180425.1~deb8u1; stretch-proposed-updates/non-free: 3.20180425.1~deb9u1; buster/non-free: 3.20180703.2; sid
931[12:11:16] <judd> /non-free: 3.20180703.2
932[12:11:35] <jelly> Azimoth, which version of intel-microcode is installed?
933[12:12:05] <Azimoth> jelly: Version: 3.20180703.2~bpo9+1
934[12:12:25] <jelly> hmph, judd is still outdated
935[12:13:10] <jelly> Azimoth, maybe only the very latest has fixes for your cpu, and the month old microcode does not?
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937[12:14:06] <Azimoth> jelly: But this is still unavailable in all versions of Debian repos, right?
938[12:14:11] <jediofthecode> is there at least a way to get a list of all available bot commands for this channel ?
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940[12:15:04] <jelly> Azimoth, that's what replaced-url
941[12:15:18] <jelly> !ircbots
942[12:15:34] <jediofthecode> !ircbots
943[12:15:51] <Azimoth> jelly: how long does it usually take until stuff published by intel ends up in the repos?
944[12:15:53] <jelly> !search dpkg
945[12:15:53] <dpkg> You can search my database on the web at replaced-url
946[12:15:57] <jelly> jediofthecode, ^
947[12:16:14] <jelly> Azimoth, I have no idea
948[12:16:24] <jediofthecode> well, i want to check the compatibility of backporting something, i forget the command
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950[12:16:36] <jelly> jediofthecode, msg judd checkbackport
951[12:17:21] <Azimoth> jelly: alright, then all I can do is continue to update on a regular basis and see what happens :)
952[12:17:24] <jediofthecode> awesome, thankls
953[12:17:38] <Azimoth> jelly: Thanks for your help, nevertheless :)
954[12:17:48] <jelly> Azimoth, you could download from intel, unpack the tarball under /lib/firmware, rebuild initramfs and reboot and see what happens
955[12:18:33] <jelly> maybe not the whole tarball but just the intel-ucode directory
956[12:18:42] <jelly> or wait.
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960[12:20:10] <Azimoth> jelly: since this system is fairly important to me (hence Debian and NOT Gentoo ;) ) I prefer not to bend over backwards too far to achieve something... I think waiting is the better option in this case
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965[12:29:51] <aiRness> anyone knows why camorama is not on sid anymore ?
966[12:30:01] <aiRness> I don't get why packages are getting off the repos somtimes
967[12:31:25] <jelly> ,v camorama
968[12:31:26] <judd> Package: camorama on amd64 -- wheezy: 0.19-2.2; jessie: 0.19-3; stretch: 0.19-5+b1
969[12:31:40] <jelly> ,bug rm camorama
970[12:31:43] <judd> Bug replaced-url
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972[12:32:25] <jelly> aiRness, you can ask the bot on your own for other packages that are gone, /msg judd bug rm packagename
973[12:32:33] <aiRness> sure
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987[12:48:44] <beepnboop-> yea i love xfce its the only de that looks like windows
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989[12:48:59] <beepnboop-> and i love its design overall
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993[12:50:22] <epicmetal> beepnboop-: not sure what version of Windows you're using!
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996[12:51:00] <beepnboop-> 7
997[12:51:17] <stevendale> System: Host steven-GP62MVR-7RFX Kernel 4.15.0-30-generic x86_64 bits 64 Desktop Xfce 4.12.3
998[12:51:18] <stevendale> Distro Linux Mint 19 Tara
999[12:51:27] <beepnboop-> well not for long
1000[12:51:28] <stevendale> XFCE is great beepnboop- :)
1001[12:51:38] <beepnboop-> today debian becomes my main os
1002[12:52:18] <stevendale> I would use Debian but I am too lazy to hand pick all the packages, and tasksel gets stuff I don't want
1003[12:52:41] <epicmetal> tasksel is the worst
1004[12:52:46] <stevendale> Plus my NVIDIA card is a pain to get going in Debian
1005[12:52:54] <stevendale> GTX 1060 Mobile
1006[12:53:48] <darxmurf> I only miss Photoshop on linux to switch at home too
1007[12:54:03] <stevendale> GIMP works for me :)
1008[12:54:06] <plantroon> gimp is great
1009[12:54:07] <epicmetal> I found Xfce buggy lately on Arch/Ubuntu
1010[12:54:12] <darxmurf> or not :D
1011[12:54:25] <`whoami`> isn't photoshop working over ine ?
1012[12:54:26] <`whoami`> wine*
1013[12:54:35] <darxmurf> it's complicated I think
1014[12:54:38] <plantroon> probably but gimp is better
1015[12:54:42] <stevendale> Don't bother
1016[12:54:43] <`whoami`> ahah got it :)
1017[12:54:43] <epicmetal> I think the GTK3 port is taking its toll
1018[12:54:45] <stevendale> GIMP master race
1019[12:54:47] <stevendale> :D
1020[12:55:11] <darxmurf> gimp is fine to do basic things but I working with PS since version 4... impossible to switch to something else
1021[12:55:34] <plantroon> that's what I thought, but it's just about getting used to different things :)
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1023[12:55:48] <darxmurf> anyway, endless fight :D
1024[12:55:56] <stevendale> GIMP over photoshop, Blender over AutoCAD/Autodesk, mtpaint over Microsoft Paint, Inkscape over Illustrator, Audacity over Adobe Audition
1025[12:56:08] <`whoami`> yeah, and what about vim/emacs ?
1026[12:56:10] <darxmurf> gimp does not open my RAW camera files :-)
1027[12:56:34] <plantroon> then the camera is not ready for the future
1028[12:56:41] <darxmurf> voilà
1029[12:56:45] <darxmurf> it's probably the issue :D
1030[12:56:55] <stevendale> CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-7700HQ CPU @ 2.80GHz (801MHz)
1031[12:57:04] <stevendale> This lappy would handle Photoshop if it ran Windows tho
1032[12:57:07] <stevendale> Quite nicely
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1034[12:58:00] <Fox> darxmurf: gimp can read RAW files, but you can't work with them (quite useless actually :))
1035[12:58:07] <epicmetal> stevendale: and here I am on my 2nd gen CPU
1036[12:58:18] <stevendale> I feel you epicmetal
1037[12:58:33] <stevendale> i have another lappy with a 3rd gen i5 and a desktop with a 1st gen i5
1038[12:58:42] <stevendale> My Mac mini had a 2nd gen i5 but I sold that
1039[12:58:43] <plantroon> here I am on my Core 2 Duo Thinkpad X200 with Libreboot :D and guess what, I am watching a h265 encoded movie. I don't know how it works but it does.
1040[12:58:54] <epicmetal> stevendale: i3 here, kernel compile takes two hours
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1042[12:59:08] <stevendale> I used to watch 720p on my Core 2 Duo P8700 2.53 GHz, plantroon
1043[12:59:21] <stevendale> The GMA 4500 MHD proved to be very powerful in Linux :)
1044[12:59:23] <plantroon> yeah P8700 here too. This is 1080p h265 :)
1045[12:59:32] <darxmurf> epicmetal: I have a 7 years old Atom machine if you want to compare :D
1046[12:59:41] <epicmetal> darxmurf: argh!
1047[12:59:43] <stevendale> Mine has 4 GB DDR2-800, what abouts your plantroon?
1048[13:00:09] <darxmurf> epicmetal: doing it's backup jobs, it's quite fine in the end :D
1049[13:00:22] <plantroon> stevendale: 4 GB but let me check about the speed
1050[13:00:42] <stevendale> plantroon: Mine's a Dell Latitude E5400
1051[13:00:52] <epicmetal> darxmurf: I actually ran an Atom as my main rig temporarily a few years back. Wasn't bad except video decode
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1053[13:01:47] <beepnboop-> i wish vm in linux was a thing
1054[13:02:01] <beepnboop-> would've been so much better than dual boot
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1057[13:02:19] <oc0d> beepnboop-: PCI passthrough via OVMF
1058[13:02:21] <plantroon> stevendale: I think this is DDR3 1066 MHz :D I can't find the info anywhere. I bought my Thinkpad X200 only to run Libreboot with it. And it's become my main PC.
1059[13:02:41] <beepnboop-> i heard its pain int he ass
1060[13:02:45] <oc0d> it is
1061[13:02:50] <stevendale> I used to run Minecraft on my P8700 plantroon on Arch Linux + X.org + TWM + XDM + Java 8
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1063[13:03:12] <stevendale> I had to install Optifine and turn everything to minimum, but it ran MC 1.12.2 at 40 - 60 FPS
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1065[13:03:21] <plantroon> stevendale: oh, minecraft is proprietary software but minetest is shaping up nicely. I also don't want to have that java stuff on my PC, nothing good ever came out of it :D
1066[13:03:41] <plantroon> stevendale: but I own minecraft since beta :D
1067[13:03:44] <stevendale> My dad works at Oracle, Inc. out of coincidence, plantroon :D
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1069[13:04:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1267
1070[13:04:38] <plantroon> stevendale: nice :D well I have nothing against java, but just the runtime would be the biggest software package in my lightweight system lol
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1076[13:05:34] <stevendale> XFCE runs quite nicely on 2 gig DDR3, and an Intel Atom N2600 1.6 GHz 2 cores 4 threads :D
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1079[13:06:24] <stevendale> Only 393 MB RAM used at idle
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1083[13:07:38] <oc0d> I was at 8GB RAM, realized wireshark had been sniffing since yesterday
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1086[13:13:06] <oc0d> so, does debian live CD with gnome have any preinstalled firewall? can't connect to it nor ping it, shouldn't be anything on the network in the way, manage to ssh from it to another PC
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1088[13:14:54] <Delurk> systemctl status sshd
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1091[13:15:26] <oc0d> its running
1092[13:16:02] <oc0d> i can't see any rules in iptables and doubt there should be anything else installed per default
1093[13:16:11] <oc0d> just cant figure out why it wont even answer ping
1094[13:16:32] <epicmetal> oc0d: no, but I like ferm
1095[13:17:16] <oc0d> epicmetal: hmm?
1096[13:18:06] <epicmetal> oc0d: nevermind I didn't read your question properly
1097[13:19:50] <oc0d> ah ok, it's answering now though, think it was the DHCP acting up
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1126[13:59:15] <kale> how do i find out which version of ocaml debians unison is built against. i am currently on stretch 9.5
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1136[14:09:30] <jim> kale, first, it will help to have the package name... so try: apt-cache search ocaml
1137[14:10:17] <kale> jim, yeah, i just ran apt-get build-dep unison, then i'll check dpkg --list to se what i got, next i need to find a unison built for that same ocaml for my other system...
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1139[14:12:12] <jim> I ended up expanding that to: apt-cache search ocaml | grep ^ocaml # left side starts with 'ocaml'
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1141[14:12:41] <jim> and found some interesting packagenames, incl. ocaml and ocaml-base
1142[14:13:40] <jim> now that we have a couple of package names (and add ones you find interesting), you can try: dpkg -s ocaml
1143[14:13:57] <jim> look for Version: in the output
1144[14:15:54] <jim> also try the other one, and here I include a grep: dpkg -s ocaml-base | grep Version
1145[14:17:13] <jim> I don;'t know much about ocaml or unison, so I dunno anything about their relationship
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1147[14:18:26] <kale> unison is built against a ocaml version, so you can have the same unison version, but built on two different ocaml versions, and the result is that the communication will fail.
1148[14:18:37] <jim> anyway, that should be it for version info, and, if you get stuck on any of that, of course speak up
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1150[14:19:21] <jim> is unison an official stretch package/
1151[14:19:22] <jim> ?
1152[14:19:36] <kale> yes
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1154[14:20:00] <kale> its in many distros including non GNU
1155[14:20:15] <jim> ok, let me try something (there's a bot judd that searches the ultimate debian database)
1156[14:22:10] <kale> youve helped plenty, i got what i asked for, so thanks
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1158[14:22:27] <jelly> ,v unison
1159[14:22:28] <judd> Package: unison on amd64 -- wheezy: 2.40.65-2; jessie: 2.40.102-2; stretch: 2.48.3-1; buster: 2.48.4-1+b1; sid: 2.48.4-1+b1
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1161[14:22:58] <jelly> ,depends unison
1162[14:22:59] <judd> Package unison in stretch/amd64 -- depends: libc6 (>= 2.14).
1163[14:23:12] <jelly> ah, statically built goods
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1166[14:24:38] <jelly> ,build-dep unison
1167[14:24:39] <judd> Package unison in stretch -- Build-Depends: cdbs (>= 0.4.23), debhelper (>= 9), ocaml-nox (>= 3.10.0-8), liblablgtk2-ocaml-dev (>= 2.12.0-2), chrpath, librsvg2-bin (>= 2.18.2), imagemagick, dh-ocaml (>= 0.9.1).
1168[14:25:04] <jelly> so it needs at least ocaml (>= 3.10.0-8)
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1172[14:28:45] <jim> jelly, yeah, just saw that... but why does unison not depend on ocaml stuff?
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1174[14:31:32] <Zgrokl> hey what kind of hardware behaviour can triger this log : systemd-logind[427]: Power key pressed.
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1176[14:32:11] <Zgrokl> i have a little celeron server and when i come back it turned off
1177[14:33:20] <jim> a very heavy spider?
1178[14:33:32] <jelly> jim, the magic of statically-linked libraries
1179[14:33:51] <Zgrokl> jim, you mean a big bug
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1181[14:34:19] <jelly> Zgrokl, how big is your power button
1182[14:34:47] <jelly> can your kids or the cleaning lady accidentally graze it
1183[14:35:02] <Zgrokl> it in a closed inacessible local
1184[14:35:05] <Zgrokl> it's*
1185[14:35:52] <kale> lt cmdr. data has his in the back.
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1187[14:36:38] <jim> kale, if unison is statically linked to the ocaml stuff, it wouldn't need ocaml (or ocaml-anything) to also be installed... in that sense, it's self-contained
1188[14:37:55] <Zgrokl> Is it possible that maybe cpu is too high on temperature ? or something and power key is trigger ?
1189[14:38:24] <jim> kale, it just needs the ocaml pacakages listed in order to build the unison package
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1191[14:39:14] <jim> Zgrokl, maybe you have to look in the bios... and/or set up lm sensors
1192[14:39:35] <jim> for the cpu and mobo temp
1193[14:39:57] <kale> jim, yes but the other unison has to be linked to the same ocaml version.
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1197[14:40:29] <jim> hmm... not sure I understand yet... other unison?
1198[14:41:09] <Zgrokl> Zgrokl, i already have watch sensors and the ssh stoped at the same time of the log with 53°C
1199[14:41:10] <kale> the other computer that runs unison and connect to the computer that runs debian and unison
1200[14:41:17] <jelly> unison is like rsync, jim
1201[14:41:23] <Zgrokl> jim, i mean
1202[14:41:56] <Zgrokl> but my question was : is it possible mobo can power off for temperature reason ?
1203[14:42:02] <jelly> kale, but why would they need to be built against the same or similar ocaml, is the protocol that broken?
1204[14:42:12] <jim> unison keeps specific folders synced?
1205[14:42:55] <kale> unison has some advantages over rsync, but can also run in rsync mode. you could say unison has another purpose than rsync. but the downside of unison is that the different systems using it, has to have a version built against the same version of ocaml, and if not, the error messages does not provide a clear picture of why communication fails.
1206[14:43:07] <jelly> Zgrokl, it's theoretically possible the chipset could trigger an ACPI event equivalent to poewr button press yes, but I have not seen it yet
1207[14:43:29] <jelly> Zgrokl, might want to ask in ##hardware about that possibility if you're interested
1208[14:44:02] <jelly> kale, eh, why not copy over the same binary
1209[14:44:15] <kale> on mac, windows and linux?
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1211[14:44:21] <jelly> ouch
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1218[14:48:34] <kale> it use it personally and sync my desktop against server. then before i leave i sync my laptop, when i get home i sync laptop again. so this way i have my date in three places, and it checks 250G in 10 secs, so its quite fast. at work i am forced to use non GNU systems, but use it here as well.
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1223[14:54:21] <jim> can you build it yourself on the other two platforms, and build ocaml too?
1224[14:54:44] <jim> mac should present less of a problem than win
1225[14:55:21] <kale> i guess i could, but the executeables are provided. you just need to know which executeable to download. usually you can see which version of ocaml the executeables are built against
1226[14:55:55] <jim> if you can see that, that should be ok... but?
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1228[14:56:40] <jim> that's a lot better than having to build them on what could be called "unknown" platforms
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1231[14:58:16] <kale> well i still have to run cygwin, so unison can use ssh, so its kinda troublesome to set up, but it syncs fast
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1234[15:00:24] <jelly> you can run that new linux ABI thing if you have windows 10 or 2016
1235[15:00:46] <jelly> and then you really can use the same binary
1236[15:01:07] <epicmetal> WSL
1237[15:01:20] <jelly> yeah. They have a Debian image now, too
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1247[15:13:30] <stevendale> Windows is trash
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1249[15:14:08] <digdilem> Good old sweeping statements
1250[15:15:06] <stevendale> Why bother with linux ABI when you can run the real thing ;)
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1252[15:16:56] <jelly> stevendale, interoperation of Debian with other systems is on topic. Keep your comments in here to constructive tech support if possible.
1253[15:17:34] <jelly> stevendale, if user asks how to sync up files on debian, mac and windows, "don't use windows" is not helpful
1254[15:17:47] <stevendale> Never used to be this strict
1255[15:17:57] <stevendale> Did you make this an official channel or something?
1256[15:18:03] <jelly> you get one warning.
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1258[15:18:06] <jelly> !offtopic
1259[15:18:06] <dpkg> #debian is primarily a support channel for Debian users. Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and take longer discussions and non-support questions to #debian-offtopic. Imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day.
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1286[15:54:33] <hoshineko> hello, I'm trying to use qemu on debian (testing) but for some reason apt install qemu only results in one package (qemu) being installed and more importantly I don't have any of the qemu binaries
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1290[15:57:24] <Fox> !debian-next
1291[15:57:24] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
1292[15:57:29] <slax0r> have you read this: replaced-url
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1294[15:57:37] <slax0r> hoshineko: ^
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1297[15:58:00] <hoshineko> oh i see
1298[15:58:03] <hoshineko> thank you
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1307[16:04:53] <thescientist> hi. I'm having trouble installing cherrytree (it is a notetaking app). I'm getting an error message saying "Dependency is not satisfiable: python-appindicator". Can anyone help me with this? Thanks.
1308[16:05:06] <jelly> !bat
1309[16:05:06] <dpkg> In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use replaced-url
1310[16:05:10] <jelly> thescientist, ^^
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1312[16:06:15] <petn-randall> eyeoh, jelly, I just talked to hmh (the maintainer for intel-microcode). You can compare /proc/cpuinfo and the output of `iucode_tool -Sl -tr /boot/<initrd>`. If both revision are the same, *and* you don't have a line like "microcode: microcode updated early to revision XXX", then you BIOS microcode is up-to-date and the kernel won't update it.
1313[16:08:06] <thnee> Is there some tool similar to FreeBSD's sysrc for setting environment variables in /etc/environment?
1314[16:08:23] <greycat> use a text editor
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1316[16:08:47] <thnee> I mean a tool that can either set it or update it regardless of if it is already there, and that doesnt write it multiple times
1317[16:08:57] <thnee> greycat: how old school
1318[16:08:59] <thescientist> @jelly, if I use gdebi the output is this replaced-url
1319[16:09:07] <greycat> Probably not. Mostly because /etc/environment is utter shit and useless 99% of the time.
1320[16:09:24] <greycat> You can't even put MAIL=$HOME/Maildir/ in it.
1321[16:09:31] <thnee> we actually define an environment variable called ENVIRONMENT in /etc/environment :D
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1328[16:13:29] <jelly> thescientist, okay, but where's the command line used, and outputs of points 2. and 3.
1329[16:14:28] <jelly> thescientist, put everything in a single paste entry if possible
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1331[16:14:40] <eyeoh> petn-randall: ah, neat.
1332[16:14:55] <thescientist> @jelly, this is the gdebi output. which I usually use to install software that is not available from synaptic
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1334[16:15:11] <greycat> *sputter*
1335[16:15:27] <jelly> thescientist, what is the exact, complete gdebi command line you used?
1336[16:15:34] <greycat> "I import random third-party .deb files so often that I consider it completely normal and I am surprised that the rest of you don't"
1337[16:16:14] <jelly> why does this gdebi thing run lintian? I guess it tries to impost some sanity
1338[16:16:19] <jelly> impose*
1339[16:16:21] <Brigo> greycat, who said that?
1340[16:16:37] <greycat> Brigo: it's implied by what thescientist wrote
1341[16:16:58] <Brigo> jelly, weird, gdebi is dpkg with some dependencies management.
1342[16:17:13] <thescientist> @jelly, just gdebi cherrytree_0.38.5-0_all.deb
1343[16:17:18] <jelly> Brigo, lintian is NOT dependencies management
1344[16:17:40] <jelly> thescientist, and where did you get cherrytree_0.38.5-0_all.deb from? And which Debian release is this?
1345[16:18:13] <Brigo> jelly, that's why the weird was there :). Any way i've checked the package description and it does run lintian.
1346[16:18:22] <greycat> jelly: see his comment at xx:14, "gdebi ... which I usually use to install software that is not available from [Debian]"
1347[16:18:26] <thescientist> @greycat, no, not at all, but thanks. I would be glad if you would care to explain to me why using it is a bad practice.
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1349[16:18:35] <greycat> !frankendebian
1350[16:18:35] <dpkg> When you get random packages from random repositories, mix multiple releases of Debian, or mix Debian and derived distributions, you have a mess. There's no way anyone can support this "distribution of Frankenstein" and #debian certainly doesn't want to even try. Ask me about <reinstall>
1351[16:18:35] <jelly> thescientist, (note that I would not have to ask so many questions if you provided the info)
1352[16:18:55] <jelly> ,v cherrytree
1353[16:18:56] <judd> Package: cherrytree on amd64 -- wheezy: 0.25.4-1; jessie: 0.35.2-1; stretch: 0.37.6-1; sid: 0.37.6-1.1
1354[16:18:58] <thescientist> @jelly from the developers webpage
1355[16:19:19] <jelly> thescientist, does that webpage debian 9 is supported?
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1357[16:19:53] <thescientist> @jelly, it doesn't specify
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1360[16:20:28] <jelly> thescientist, which debian release are you using? There seems to be a 0.37.6-1 in Debian 9
1361[16:20:43] <thescientist> @jelly, just states "debian/ubuntu package". I am usign buster.
1362[16:21:11] <jelly> thescientist, it does not seem to be a package built with debian in mind.
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1365[16:22:11] <jelly> thescientist, you will have to ask the developer to fix those issues if you want to install using gdebi, or use a lower level tool like dpkg to install it, or don't install that version at all and try using the one from stretch or sid instead.
1366[16:22:35] <jelly> dpkg, tell thescientist about debian-next
1367[16:22:39] <jelly> dpkg, tell thescientist about tum
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1369[16:23:33] <jelly> or tell gdebi not to run lintian, I guess
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1371[16:24:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1279
1372[16:24:04] <greycat> Isn't "apt" supposed to replace this functionality of gdebi for auto-frankendebianing a system?
1373[16:24:29] <jelly> I now have a newfound respect for gdebi.
1374[16:24:59] <thescientist> @jelly, I assumed the latest version would be the best one to use. I'll see if the previous version works or check what you suggested.
1375[16:25:18] <jelly> !why is cherrytree not in testing
1376[16:25:18] <dpkg> cherrytree is not in testing for the reasons listed in replaced-url
1377[16:25:39] <thescientist> @jelly, I would like to understand if using gdebi is a bad thing as suggested by the other user. Thanks.
1378[16:25:40] <jelly> thescientist, the latest would be nice IF it was built for actual Debian
1379[16:26:13] <greycat> It's not that gdebi is inherently bad. It's that you are installing Ubuntu packages.
1380[16:26:15] <jelly> thescientist, gdebi is doing the right thing by stopping you from installing a package with minor issues
1381[16:26:42] <jelly> thescientist, so in that respect, it's better than a tool that would happily let you install such a .deb
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1384[16:28:44] <thescientist> @greycat, I have seen this "debian/ubuntu" before. I know the systems are different but thought that when this was stated there would be compatibility. Sorry if I am new to this and don't know everything yet.
1385[16:28:57] <thescientist> @greycat, That is why I am asking.
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1387[16:29:56] <greycat> Basically, if it does not say "Built for Debian version ____" then you are taking your chances with something that is potentially incompatible with your system.
1388[16:30:08] <greycat> If it says "Ubuntu" ANYWHERE on the page, just run. Run far away.
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1391[16:32:15] <thescientist> @greycat, Ok, thanks. That is good to know.
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1393[16:32:38] <thescientist> @jelly, Thanks for the explanation.
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1395[16:32:41] <petn-randall> thescientist: This isn't twitter, you don't need an @ infront of names. It means something different on IRC.
1396[16:32:44] <jelly> well, if it says just "Ubuntu" on its own, you know it's not for your system. If it says "debian/ubuntu" that's a red flag. If it lists releases of debian and ubuntu it works on, that's better.
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1399[16:33:29] <jelly> more often that not, the author writing "debian/ubuntu" is confused about how different the releases of these OSes are
1400[16:33:48] <thescientist> petn-randall, sorry. forgot about that.
1401[16:33:57] <petn-randall> no worries :)
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1405[16:36:50] <greycat> Yes, OK, if it actually says "Here are package for Debian 9... Here are packages for Ubuntu 16.04..." then that would be OK.
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1408[16:37:39] <jhutchins_wk> I have seen packages that were offered as for Ubuntu or Debian and that actually checked to see which they were installing on.
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1410[16:38:38] <jhutchins_wk> jelly: I would agree that if they specify releases it's a sign of more thorough preparation.
1411[16:38:40] <greycat> that's not reassuring to me
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1425[16:52:58] <thescientist> jelly, greycat, jhutchins_wk, thanks for the help and explanations. In this case I instead use a different program that is available from synaptic. Thanks.
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1470[17:33:37] <mefistofeles> hey
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1476[17:38:57] <klys> hi
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1525[18:31:24] <rajjan> hey guys
1526[18:31:34] <rajjan> anybody here to rescue my day ?
1527[18:31:49] <rajjan> i used the command apt-get remove perl
1528[18:32:20] <rajjan> and suddenly everything was messed up
1529[18:32:33] <rajjan> mainly no mysql command(mysql service is running)
1530[18:32:43] <rajjan> and apache2 service not running
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1535[18:35:30] <altker128> rajjan: , apt-get install perl ?
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1538[18:37:11] <rajjan> already tried that
1539[18:37:22] <rajjan> so many packages were removed for no reason
1540[18:37:35] <rajjan> i had to reinstall my kde as well
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1547[18:38:55] <petn-randall> rajjan: You can check in /var/log/apt/history.log which packages got removed. For the future, actually check why gets removed, those must have been 100+ packages that scrolled past you on the CLI.
1548[18:39:03] <petn-randall> s/why/what/
1549[18:39:32] <Bustin> new linux / debian user here. I am using xfce, but have used this replaced-url
1550[18:39:56] <rajjan> yep exactly
1551[18:40:08] <rajjan> i'm not gonna use the apt-get remove anymore
1552[18:40:15] <rajjan> cost me a lot of worthy hours
1553[18:40:32] <petn-randall> It's close to 1,000 packages that would get removed on my system.
1554[18:40:49] <phogg> Bustin: get the source package for the panel, manually apply the patch, and then rebuild the package.
1555[18:41:00] <petn-randall> rajjan: Nothing wrong with using it, but you *must* read what it's actually telling you before confirming actions.
1556[18:41:00] <cfoch> Hello
1557[18:41:19] <cfoch> Has someone Here tried Xen on Debian?
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1560[18:44:30] <Bustin> phogg: easier said than done! I have downloaded the latest master for xfce4-panel, but am lost as how to recompile / rebuild the package, and then install it in replace of my current.
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1563[18:45:12] <phogg> Bustin: something along these lines: apt-get build-dep xfce4-panel ; apt-get install build-essential dpkg-dev ; apt-get source xfce4-panel ; cd xfce4-panel-* ; apply the patch ; dpkg-buildpackage
1564[18:45:29] <petn-randall> cfoch: Probably many people, best to ask your question.
1565[18:45:33] <phogg> Your mileage may vary, some steps possibly omitted.
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1567[18:47:50] <cfoch> Why is disk LVG virtualized as /dev/xvda un HVM when I have specified sda in the config file
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1570[18:48:44] <phogg> Bustin: if you're not aware the "apply the patch" step is this line from your PKGBUID: patch plugins/systray/systray-box.c ../../spacing.patch # you may need to adjust the path to the spacing.patch file.
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1572[18:49:36] <phogg> or just edit the file manually since this is a trivial one line change
1573[18:49:40] <cfoch> The DomU (the guest VM ) sees my disk as xvda, but the problem is that the distro I want to install seems to look for /Dev/sda
1574[18:50:09] <cfoch> And it Tells me it doesn't find my disk
1575[18:51:04] <Bustin> phogg: thank you for the information. I am currently running xfce, but in order to make the "one line change", I still have to take those steps (download the source of the xfce panel, make the change, recompile etc)? I can't edit my current config, without having to do those steps?
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1578[18:51:46] <phogg> Bustin: it's not config, it's a constant in C. They didn't make it configurable.
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1582[18:52:11] <cfoch> I talk boutique Xen btw ^
1583[18:52:15] <phogg> Bustin: you could instead change the panel to read the value from a config file, but that would require knowing how to do that.
1584[18:52:18] <cfoch> About*
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1586[18:52:35] <cfoch> I talk about Xen
1587[18:52:37] <phogg> Bustin: if you do please submit patches back to the project
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1589[18:52:47] <Bustin> phogg: I would rather that, then I can manually adjust the spacing, and not have to recompile with a hit or miss guess each change :(
1590[18:52:51] <Bustin> do'h.
1591[18:53:05] <phogg> Bustin: Yeah, that would make a lot more sense.
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1600[18:57:05] <Bustin> phogg: that spacing "fix" would fix a lot of peoples annoyances with the panel. It's been an "issue" for quite a while, I wonder why the xfce team hasn't proposed a fix still.
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1603[18:58:05] <phogg> Bustin: they're waiting for a user like you to supply a patch
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1605[18:58:27] <phogg> If enough people want it one of them will known enough C to add the feature.
1606[18:59:43] <Bustin> I guess, I'm not the one with enough C knowledge, lol. Dangit, I love xfce, but that spacing drives me bonkers.
1607[18:59:56] <Bustin> <-- ocd
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1610[19:02:44] <phogg> Bustin: there are websites where you can specify a feature request and set up a bounty for satisfying it. Crowd fund that change.
1611[19:03:20] <eyeoh> rajjan: I've made a similar mistake like that before but yeah, there's a debian wiki warning about removing without checking; which I wish I would have read back then for another system
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1613[19:04:36] <eyeoh> rajjan: there's probably an elegant fix but what I ended up doing was just clean installing again to be sure :\ (it was fedora in my case, a few days after first trying it)
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1615[19:06:11] <eyeoh> rajjan: replaced-url
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1617[19:06:41] <eyeoh> don't know if others have a better fix for you than just reinstalling
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1620[19:08:13] <eyeoh> rajjan: ah I see history.log was mentioned by petn-randall
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1623[19:09:24] <eyeoh> I think I saw the list but freaked out and didn't want to go through the trouble of installing each package again
1624[19:09:28] * annadane wonders if "don't blindly remove software" also considers "apt purge foo && apt autoremove --purge", which i'm in the habit of doing for every removal
1625[19:09:37] <annadane> which i assume is mostly fine
1626[19:09:38] <eyeoh> :\
1627[19:10:01] <eyeoh> (I don't really know)
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1629[19:11:29] <annadane> (also, why does it still leave dot files in $HOME?)
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1631[19:12:38] <greycat> because ransacking the entire system for user home directories and fucking with them would be rude
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1634[19:13:30] <p0lyph3m> *DON'T* apt remove libc6
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1636[19:13:56] <phogg> s0lar1s: sage advice
1637[19:14:04] <greycat> were you planning to?
1638[19:14:19] <phogg> you should also not chmod a-x `which chmod`, even though it's easier to fix.
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1640[19:14:55] <annadane> but the internet told me to, and besides, it works on kali
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1643[19:15:48] <phogg> does anything work on kali?
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1712[20:19:29] <jhutchins_wk> irc does. They come here.
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1717[20:26:57] <randymarsh9> hello
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1719[20:27:24] <randymarsh9> when i run ./configure that means i'm installing a program from source correct?
1720[20:29:10] <jhutchins_wk> Not necessarily. You're running a configuration script. Could be for anything.
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1722[20:29:43] <randymarsh9> jhutchins_wk: if i'm running it for this replaced-url
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1724[20:29:52] <randymarsh9> then it's for a program right
1725[20:30:35] <randymarsh9> it seems like most of those start of with ./configure
1726[20:31:14] <randymarsh9> if i'm installing from a tarball i mean?
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1731[20:35:01] <greycat> Typically a program named ./configure is used to prepare a source directory or a build directory for a "make" command to be run.
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1734[20:36:27] <randymarsh9> ok so it just prepares the directory
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1737[20:37:29] <greycat> Well, it does whatever the ./configure script says to do, but that's what it *usually* does.
1738[20:37:49] <randymarsh9> i see
1739[20:38:27] <fpat> randymarsh9: watch out for files like README and INSTALL
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1741[20:38:33] <randymarsh9> when i install a program (whether a binary or from source) do they both get placed into the same final directory?
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1745[20:39:17] <greycat> That depends on the installation process. Every one is unique.
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1747[20:39:42] <randymarsh9> fpat: thanks, most of the readme's i've come across are very sparse and assume i already know what i'm doing
1748[20:39:57] <fpat> you cant judge one file by another
1749[20:40:14] <greycat> The *usual* result is that programs are installed in /usr/local/bin/ but any given program can do whatever the developer made it do.
1750[20:40:17] <keith4> Can I PXE boot the buster installer and use that to install stetch? Need a newer kernel for new hardware
1751[20:40:22] <randymarsh9> i'm just trying to establish a baseline where i kinda know what's going on here lmao
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1757[20:40:34] <fpat> i see
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1762[20:43:01] <fpat> a good baseline brain food example can be: replaced-url
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1764[20:43:44] <fpat> and this: replaced-url
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1766[20:43:55] <randymarsh9> fpat: i'll check those out thanks
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1769[20:46:17] <randymarsh9> "Sometimes the archived file must be untarred and installed from the user's home directory, or perhaps in a certain other directory"
1770[20:46:33] <randymarsh9> if the program doesn't specify then i can install it from anywhere right?
1771[20:46:46] <randymarsh9> including /tmp/ ?
1772[20:46:46] <greycat> Every program is different.
1773[20:47:06] <randymarsh9> fudgeeeeee
1774[20:47:09] <greycat> Where you untar and build *usually* does not matter, but for specific cases, you must read the developer's docs.
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1780[20:51:10] <rajjan> Hello guys, and thank you for everybody that tried to help took me a couple of hours
1781[20:51:28] <rajjan> i had to reinstall all missing packages and was careful with what i was replacing
1782[20:51:34] <rajjan> now everything is back to normal
1783[20:51:59] <fpat> rajjan: congrats
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1786[20:53:30] <rajjan> i'm going on a job interview on monday and they asked me i was gonna have to pass a test with perl regex
1787[20:53:45] <greycat> good luck
1788[20:53:49] <rajjan> what would you think an advertisement company would required most in perl regex
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1793[20:56:49] <ksk> one that turns everything into advertisements. maybe try #debian-offctopic, as its not really related ;)
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1807[21:14:30] <karlpinc> Any idea how to use network manager to setup and run a pptp tunnel on a box without network manager? I've installed network manager and the network-manager-gnome-pptp. When I try to start from nmcli I get ""Error: Connection activation failed: Could not find a source connection." According to "replaced-url
1808[21:14:30] <karlpinc> default route", whatever that means. I've poked it with a stick setting "managed=true" in the [ifupdown] section of /etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf. That (IIRC) earns me a LCP error in the logs. Anyhow, I'm looking for a miracle answer here as to an easy way to get a pptp connection working.
1809[21:14:48] <karlpinc> (Don't ask mem about pptp. The basic plan is to use pptp to connect so I can fix ssh.)
1810[21:16:14] <karlpinc> I'm using network manager because that's what's "supposed to work". There's about a billion pptp and pppd config options. I'm hoping that this gets me something that works without me having to think about it. (I thought I was done with pppd. *sigh*)
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1818[21:30:26] <eyeoh> randymarsh9: I believe . or ./ means "current directory". (And .. is parent directory)
1819[21:31:06] <eyeoh> randymarsh9: so ls . means list files in current directory (but ls does that by default too), and ./ means run file in current dir
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1822[21:32:38] <eyeoh> so if you type "configure" on its own, the system will think you're trying to run a program called configure but not look in the directory you're in (because that's usually not in the $PATH)
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1824[21:33:21] <eyeoh> configure is merely a script to configure stuff in preparation for building (linking and compiling right?)
1825[21:33:38] <greycat> The exact build steps will depend on the language(s) used in the project.
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1828[21:34:16] <eyeoh> yeah although the most common scenaraio randymarsh9's wondering about I'm guessing is ./configure, make and make install?
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1830[21:34:28] <eyeoh> took me a while to understand what I just attempted to explain
1831[21:34:28] <greycat> yes, that's the usual case
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1833[21:35:41] <eyeoh> randymarsh9: I think there's a guide somewhere that branches off the Linux From Scratch (LFS) guide, that goes into depth on compiling software - if you really wanted to delve deep there
1834[21:35:56] <eyeoh> oh, fpat linked it
1835[21:36:43] <randymarsh9> eyeoh: yea i was able to get it compiled, thanks
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1837[21:37:09] <randymarsh9> greycat: you were right i just followed the steps in the developers docs lmao
1838[21:37:31] <eyeoh> randymarsh9: by the way just so you know, sudo make install isn't always required - depending on the package, you might be able to ./configure --prefix a location to install it to that doesn't require elevated privileges
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1840[21:38:26] <eyeoh> I think I accidentally a word somewhere there but you probably get what I mean
1841[21:38:44] <jhutchins_wk> Actually, source code is supposed to come with a README and/or INSTALL file that tells you excactly what steps are repsected to build and install the software.
1842[21:38:51] <eyeoh> to install it to, that doesn't require etc*
1843[21:39:18] <eyeoh> ah yeah that too; although sometimes they are a little sparse with mentioning how you need to fetch required dependencies
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1845[21:39:34] <eyeoh> i.e., -dev packages with debian (and -devel for centos)
1846[21:40:03] <jhutchins_wk> randymarsh9: You might want to consider making a deb package and installing that rather than installing directly from the makefile.
1847[21:40:05] <greycat> or libperl* etc.
1848[21:40:30] <eyeoh> hah yes
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1850[21:40:36] <greycat> jhutchins_wk: oh, yes, because he needs his life to be suddenly 30 times harder
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1852[21:41:02] <jhutchins_wk> Well, he's here to learn, isn't he? What better way than to suffer?
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1857[21:43:31] <eyeoh> haha this is debian, not _________ distro :p But to be serious, replaced-url
1858[21:44:25] <greycat> "make -n install" will often tell you where a thing *will* be installed when you drop the -n, but sometimes there's so much output from make -n install that you can't figure anything out
1859[21:44:47] <greycat> especially with the fancier automake-generated Makefiles
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1865[21:52:13] <eyeoh> oh yeah; -n for dry-run; works for many things.
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1868[21:52:52] <eyeoh> Probably something I should always remember to try more; it hardly takes any more time (and can sometimes save a lot of it)
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1880[22:05:34] <deadrom> hi
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1887[22:07:24] <deadrom> deb8 gives me all the SMART data from a usb3 hdd I want with nothing more than "-d sat". 3.x kernel, smarttools 6.4. Ubuntu with latest smarttools 6.7 from src and kernel 4.x I can tell what I want, -d sat, -T permissive, it just shrugs. what is it debian can do Ubuntu can't here?
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1892[22:10:32] <Stochastix_> On debian 9.5, is the networking primarily being controlled by systemd? Im trying to figure out why I I am getting a blank /etc/resolv.conf
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1894[22:11:05] <greycat> No, systemd is not in charge of interfaces on Debian unless you make it do so.
1895[22:11:26] <greycat> What *is* in charge depends on how and what you installed. It could be either Network Manager, or /etc/network/interfaces
1896[22:11:26] <Stochastix_> so dhclient is what runs on boot?
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1898[22:12:17] <Stochastix_> I have two setups that are basically identical but on differnet networks, one is getting dns information, but the other is not.
1899[22:12:54] <Stochastix_> It is probably an issue with the dhcp server, but I was just trying to figure out what files I should be looking at on each system to compare for differences.
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1901[22:13:01] <greycat> You can use ps to see if dhclient is running, but the important thing is to figure out whether it's NM or /e/n/i.
1902[22:14:29] <jhutchins_wk> Stochastix_: dhclient will either be run by the network start scripts or by Network Manager, depeneing on how you've configured the system.
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1905[22:15:00] <Stochastix_> so, my systemd services like network-online.target and networking.service are enabled and active
1906[22:15:24] <Stochastix_> Which is why I was asking if systemd was mostly managing it at this point.
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1908[22:15:35] <greycat> Only if you (or whoever has root) told it to.
1909[22:16:40] <greycat> Figure out the interface's name (probably from ip addr). See if that interface is defined in /e/n/i or not. See if /etc/resolv.conf is a real file or a symlink. See if it has Network Manager in a comment inside it.
1910[22:16:49] <Stochastix_> I dont recall having to enable those services
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1913[22:17:01] <Stochastix_> k, let me look
1914[22:18:27] <Stochastix_> on one system(call it sysA) I have iface eno1 inet dhcp in the interfaces file
1915[22:18:57] <Stochastix_> Same thing on SysB
1916[22:19:05] <deadrom> figured: uas is the culprit.
1917[22:20:00] <Stochastix_> In this case, who is responsible for writing the /etc/resolv.conf file?
1918[22:20:11] <Stochastix_> It is actually blank
1919[22:20:11] <greycat> dhclient
1920[22:20:16] <Stochastix_> no writing at all in it
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1923[22:20:44] <Stochastix_> Ok, I see there are no comments in the other one either
1924[22:20:56] <Stochastix_> So blank just might mean there was nothing to put in there
1925[22:21:04] <greycat> Is it a regular file, or a symlink?
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1927[22:21:08] <Stochastix_> Not that it got destroyed or anything.
1928[22:21:35] <Stochastix_> regular file on sysA
1929[22:21:48] <Stochastix_> same on sysB
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1931[22:22:06] <greycat> Then for whatever reason, dhclient is not putting nameservers and search domains into it.
1932[22:23:00] <Stochastix_> Perhaps it is not receiving any from the dhcp server.
1933[22:23:14] <Stochastix_> resolution was working yesterday and earlier today.
1934[22:23:44] <Stochastix_> Ill work it out, Just wanted to get a handle on what was handling networking in debian.
1935[22:23:49] <Stochastix_> Thanks for the help.
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1957[22:43:44] <jhutchins_wk> Stochastix_: Your interface might have a different name.
1958[22:45:25] <greycat> I did say to find out the interface's name using ip addr. If he didn't listen....
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1962[22:49:44] <Stochastix_> So, when I run dhclient get: RTNETLINK answers: File exists
1963[22:49:52] <Stochastix_> sh: echo: I/O error
1964[22:50:09] <greycat> What is your interface's name, from "ip addr"?
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1966[22:50:29] <Stochastix_> eno1
1967[22:50:53] <greycat> Does "ps auxw | grep dhclient" show a long dhclient command ending with " eno1" ?
1968[22:51:03] <Stochastix_> Im getting an ip, and ip route looks normal
1969[22:51:21] <Stochastix_> no, it does not on the troubled system
1970[22:51:35] <greycat> What DOES it show?
1971[22:51:38] <Stochastix_> on the one that is working, it does have a long dhclient ending in eno1
1972[22:52:00] <RoyK> "ip link list" will show them all
1973[22:52:11] <RoyK> "ip addr list" will show their addresses as well
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1975[22:52:33] <Stochastix_> Ok. I do have one now,
1976[22:52:44] <Stochastix_> I didnt before, it was not running the last time I checked
1977[22:53:46] <greycat> If it's dying and being respawned on a regular basis, that could indicate something... but I have no idea what.
1978[22:54:25] <Stochastix_> root 2976 0.0 0.0 20472 1100 ? Ss 16:53 0:00 /sbin/dhclient -4 -v -pf /run/dhclient.eno1.pid -lf /var/lib/dhcp/dhclient.eno1.leases -I -df /var/lib/dhcp/dhclient6.eno1.leases eno1
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1980[22:54:59] <Stochastix_> I had a couple, killed them all, did ifdown eno1, then ifup eno1, and it is running and that is the output of ps
1981[22:55:02] * RoyK thought debian was using dhcpcd, not dhclient
1982[22:55:08] <greycat> looks normal except for the start time being so recent
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1987[22:58:16] <Stochastix_> I put some supersede comments in /etc/dhcp/dhclient.conf for domain-name seach and name server
1988[22:58:40] <Stochastix_> doe they have to be wrapped in a lease{} ?
1989[22:58:48] <maxrazer> Does apt replace gdebi?
1990[23:00:10] <maxrazer> I've installed local .deb packages using apt before, but never gdebi
1991[23:00:23] <maxrazer> And I mean apt, not apt-get
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1995[23:03:26] <greycat> maxrazer: I've heard it mentioned a few times but I've never actually tried it
1996[23:03:38] <maxrazer> greycat, Which one?
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1998[23:03:46] <greycat> using apt to install a .deb file
1999[23:04:13] <Stochastix_> Ok guys, I figured out how I borked it
2000[23:04:31] <Stochastix_> Remember the sh: echo: I/O error ?
2001[23:04:48] <Stochastix_> One of my mounts disappeared and I filled up my /
2002[23:04:52] <Stochastix_> 100% filled
2003[23:04:55] <Stochastix_> lol
2004[23:04:56] <greycat> ouch
2005[23:05:08] <Stochastix_> dhclient could not write resole.conf haha
2006[23:05:21] <Stochastix_> but the system booted normally lol
2007[23:05:47] <Stochastix_> cleaned it out and my supercede worked
2008[23:05:54] <maxrazer> If apt just calls various apt tools and gdebi is not part of those tools then that sounds like apt will not resolve missing dependancies for local .deb files, unless that was added as part of another tool when apt command was created.
2009[23:06:05] <Stochastix_> going to put it back to normal and see if it works right
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2011[23:06:24] <maxrazer> maybe gdebi should be added to apt.
2012[23:06:24] <greycat> When I started out as a junior sys admin back in the 1990s, I got into the habit of just continually typing things like "df" and "uptime" whenever I was idling on a system.
2013[23:06:42] *** Quits: diogenes_ (~diogenes_@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2014[23:06:47] <Stochastix_> greycat, hehe, thats how I found it, df -h
2015[23:07:28] *** evilnewbie is now known as beaver
2016[23:08:14] <Stochastix_> I started to wonder what was going on when I was able to cat /etc/dhcp/dhclient.conf, but I was not able to open it in an editor anymore
2017[23:09:06] <Stochastix_> hmm. well, actually, I still cant edit it lol
2018[23:09:29] <Stochastix_> Error reading lock file /etc/dhcp/.dhclient.conf.swp: Not enough data read
2019[23:09:33] *** Quits: NerdTheThird (~NerdTheTh@replaced-ip) (Quit: NerdTheThird)
2020[23:09:55] <greycat> remove the .swp file if you're confident no vim processes exist that have it opened
2021[23:09:57] <Stochastix_> k all better
2022[23:10:11] <Stochastix_> yeap, just removed it
2023[23:10:28] <Stochastix_> Yea, I rebooted twcie already
2024[23:12:03] <Stochastix_> k, we are back to normal, assuming other stuff isnt all jacked up from running out of mem :)
2025[23:12:13] <Stochastix_> seems ok so far
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2027[23:12:25] <Stochastix_> Thanks for watching the show lol
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2035[23:23:08] <eyeoh> nice work
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