Realtime Nick Name Ticker of #debian at freenode (ICQ IRC service)

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25[00:18:44] <coy0tea> metbsd you mean one package or all packages?
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27[00:19:02] <coy0tea> and hi metbsd :D
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29[00:19:14] <metbsd> hi. i mean all package
30[00:19:30] <coy0tea> how r u (wo)man?
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32[00:19:32] <coy0tea> :]
33[00:19:45] <coy0tea> all packages hmm do you want to use GUI synaptic?
34[00:20:03] <coy0tea> actually i don't think synaptic ever shows unstable
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36[00:20:47] <juliett> Client: HexChat 2.12.4 • OS: Debian 9.8 • CPU: Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.53GHz (1,89GHz) • Memory: Physical: 1,9 GiB Total (1,3 GiB Free) Swap: 3,7 GiB Total (3,7 GiB Free) • Storage: 67,6 GB / 242,1 GB (174,5 GB Free) • VGA: NVIDIA Corporation NV17M [GeForce4 440 Go 64M] @ Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS] SiS645DX Host & Memory & AGP Controller • Uptime: 47m 56s
37[00:21:51] <coy0tea> this is just for samba4 package metbsd ?
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41[00:23:20] <metbsd> yes. i'm trying to install debian on my Intel(R) Pentium(R) Dual CPU T2370 @ 1.73GHz
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44[00:25:20] <rant> metbsd: packages.debian.org
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46[00:25:26] <metbsd> thanks got it
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49[00:25:43] <bangstick> Is thing on?
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51[00:27:22] <ksk> bangstick: thing is on.
52[00:27:28] <bangstick> thx
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54[00:29:22] <bangstick> Who ever wrote the instructions for registering should be shot
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58[00:32:59] <at0m> bangstick: nice to see you, too.
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60[00:33:32] <BangStick> howdy
61[00:33:39] <at0m> BangStick: it's meant as an age verification to weed out those under 5
62[00:33:44] <at0m> nn folks
63[00:33:57] <BangStick> Weeds out old folks too
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330[02:26:31] <cVsup> Somebody can help with this message from rtcwake? rtcwake: suspend to "mem" unavailable
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566[07:00:03] <KindOne> The deja fonts "visit homepage" link in synaptic package manager links to a weird website that looks like it got taken over?
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574[07:13:34] <KindOne> Its going to replaced-url
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716[09:09:03] <johann_> meta-1
717[09:09:09] <johann_> meta-0
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722[09:10:13] *** johann_ is now known as nopixel
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734[09:16:22] <nopixel> yo
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790[10:00:58] <anonymous> hellow
791[10:01:03] <anonymous> oi guys
792[10:01:13] <anonymous> mai thumkoh mardungah
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794[10:01:25] <anonymous> yooo
795[10:01:29] <anonymous> helo
796[10:01:32] <anonymous> guys
797[10:01:33] <anonymous> mf
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799[10:01:34] <anonymous> mf
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802[10:02:24] <kirk781> lel, that translates to "I'll kill you"
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814[10:09:23] <leni536> Hi, what's a good Debian packaging documentation/tutorial?
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816[10:10:38] <leni536> I only seem to find partial information from here and there
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828[10:16:19] <jolt> leni536: I usually use this one for local stuff: replaced-url
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833[10:18:45] <leni536> Thanks, I check that out
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853[10:27:10] <Zandra> hell yea ban evasion replaced-url
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855[10:28:03] <colo-work> that screenshot's gotta be the epitome of scriptkiddieness
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879[10:43:16] <cap> Greetings. The Debian signing key from the matrix.org devs seems to be compromised. I just want to make sure, that it is noticed. replaced-url
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882[10:47:19] <jelly> cap: this is not exactly a debian tech issue or something we can help with at all, please keep topic
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935[11:27:54] <Megaf> folks, up to Core2Duo I could do a echo powersave /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scalling_governor to put that core in powersave mode, bu that doesnt seem to work with these modern i5/i7 CPUs. How do we do that now a days? Any easy way of putting my laptop in powersave mode? It's a ThinkPad X230 with a second gen i5. Thanks.
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941[11:30:46] <Ticho_> that should still work, but it depends on whether the CPUs allow their power management to be OS-controlled
942[11:31:06] <Ticho_> that should be a BIOS setting
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944[11:32:27] <Megaf> Meh, I've been doing that for decades and now it's a bios setings? bummer
945[11:32:46] <Megaf> I dont want to reboot my machine to change performance settings
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948[11:34:13] <Ticho_> it's not a hard rule, it's just that some systems solve it that way :)
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953[11:34:41] <Megaf> ok, I think its working now
954[11:35:00] <Megaf> I had to install cpufrequtils and modprobe the cpufreq modules again
955[11:35:20] <towo^work> Megaf, your problem is maybe, i5/i7 is using intel_pstate instead of acpi-cpufreq
956[11:35:46] <Ticho_> if you have tuned running, it could also revert whatever you manually set
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958[11:35:59] <Megaf> and the way it works is different, before in powersave CPU would stay at the lowest freq possible at all times
959[11:36:04] <Megaf> now it still scales up the freq
960[11:36:19] <Megaf> and in performance mod is just keeps the base freq higher
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962[11:37:27] <Megaf> ok, intel p states is active
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974[11:44:25] <Megaf_> well, thanks! Cya
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1044[12:47:54] <Fredjeu4> who the hell messing with my connection replaced-url
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1071[13:13:04] <jelly> Fredjeu4: which debian release is that
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1076[13:18:16] <Fredjeu4> <jelly> i don't get the release anymore any where ... i mock it up replaced-url
1077[13:19:19] <colo-work> ok... _that_ screenshot's gotta be the epitome of scriptkiddieness
1078[13:20:01] <jelly> Fredjeu4: sorry, we do not support derivatives in here. Try to find a support venue for yout particular distro, or perhaps ask in ##Linux
1079[13:20:35] <Fredjeu4> when did i seek a support ?
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1081[13:21:04] <jelly> Fredjeu4: this channel is _for_ support. If you want to chat, we have a #debian-offtopic
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1083[13:22:36] <Fredjeu4> i answerd a question i didnt chat
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1086[13:23:53] <metbsd> everytime i read debian documentation site. it gives me chinese. how do i make it default to english?
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1098[13:27:06] <metbsd> replaced-url
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1102[13:33:44] <jelly> metbsd: there should be links to other languages near the bottom
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1105[13:34:46] <jelly> but the web server probably uses browser preferences, so you'd have to change the language preferences in the browsers so Englush takes higher priority
1106[13:34:51] <jelly> replaced-url
1107[13:35:04] <jelly> is one of the links down
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1113[13:38:53] <bolovanos> hithere - what am I doing wrong with "grep -r "text" /path/" - text is located at least in one file, but grep -r does not find it ?
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1116[13:41:15] <ml|> Case sensitive? Try grep -ir ...
1117[13:41:40] <bolovanos> got it - those are symlinked files (facepalm)
1118[13:41:45] <bolovanos> anyway thank you! :)
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1124[13:46:59] <metbsd> jelly: i changed web browser language preferences it stil gives me chinese as possible as it can
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1126[13:47:24] <metbsd> when i click an external link it goes back to chinese
1127[13:47:44] <jelly> then you did not change the right settings, which browser?
1128[13:48:01] <krion> hi guys
1129[13:48:25] <metbsd> firefox
1130[13:48:27] <krion> for a specific reason i want to "really" refresh the /var/lib/apt/lists/ content
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1132[13:48:40] <krion> apt-get clean and apt-get autoclean don't do the tricks
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1134[13:49:00] <krion> apt-get update doesnt achieve my goal either
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1138[13:49:23] <jelly> krion: rm /var/lib/apt/lists/*.* and do an update again
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1142[13:49:47] <pagios> Hi, when running ssh -X on my cloud headless system, the graphics are so slow |(example playing a video remotely) how can i optimize this?
1143[13:49:59] <krion> yes that's what I did, was wondering if a apt-* command can do this
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1145[13:50:12] <jelly> krion: clean and autoclean only deal with .deb package files (in /var/cache/apt/archives). No command AFAIK.
1146[13:50:24] <krion> jelly: and since you kind of follow my story, what should happen happened ;)
1147[13:50:38] <jelly> krion: don't delete /var/lib/apt/lists/lock
1148[13:51:17] <krion> why not ? what's goal ?
1149[13:51:32] <krion> having badly pinning priority + snapshot is bad
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1153[14:00:48] <jelly> krion: because apt uses it.
1154[14:01:15] <jelly> there's a chance you might have two apt processes walking over each other if you delete it
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1163[14:04:33] <krion> i see, thanks
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1165[14:05:04] <jelly> that's why /var/lib/apt/lists/*.* and not "delete all the files"
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1167[14:05:13] <jelly> *.* is not "all the files" on linux
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1169[14:05:25] <krion> the irony is that I fix the priority, but it's still in the MR, but I also refresh mirror, and that's what broke my shitty infrastructure
1170[14:05:37] <krion> as ice cube said once, thank god it's friday
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1299[15:39:47] <repz> Hi there. Is it me or the dataeng service from Dell OpenManage is not available for Stretch ?
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1305[15:44:22] <gasull> I can add user to group using usermod. I get no error: sudo usermod -G plugdev user
1306[15:44:30] <gasull> (Yes, the username is "user")
1307[15:44:46] <gasull> groups stills shows user is not in plugdev group
1308[15:44:55] <greycat> You have to log back in to get new privs.
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1326[16:02:47] <rypervenche> gasull: Also note that if you use -G and not -aG, you will be removing any other additional groups that you may have previously set.
1327[16:03:04] <greycat> !adduser
1328[16:03:04] <dpkg> adduser is probably a program (front end to useradd(8)) for adding a user to the system. See also <homedir permissions>.
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1330[16:03:11] <greycat> damn it bot
1331[16:04:05] <greycat> dpkg, adduser =~ s/system/system, or adding an existing user to an existing group/
1332[16:04:05] <dpkg> OK, greycat
1333[16:04:19] <greycat> "adduser username groupname"
1334[16:04:38] <greycat> or just edit the group file by hand; it's a lot easier than figuring out the tools
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1336[16:05:36] <jelly> and "by hand" greycat means "vigr"
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1338[16:06:16] <greycat> ideally. in practice I usually cheat.
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1340[16:06:56] <annadane> out of curiosity why doesn't the application launcher (xfce4-appfinder --collapsed) in xfce launch vim? the one with TUI. it apparently can
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1342[16:07:01] <annadane> can't launch terminal programs*
1343[16:07:42] <annadane> i guess it's not important
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1348[16:10:30] <annadane> knowing this is an older version of xfce it's not unlikely this is a bug
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1356[16:15:16] <at0m> annadane: can't be too hard to tell it to run it inside an xterm or so? not sure, i don't xfce
1357[16:15:43] <annadane> oh of course i'm just being lazy
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1360[16:18:16] <annadane> ah, vim doesn't appear in the list, whereas the terminal version of emacs does. interesting
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1362[16:18:43] <at0m> i blame vim installer then
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1364[16:18:49] <at0m> who uses menu's to launch common apps anyway :>
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1368[16:21:22] <greycat> I put my terminal emulators and web browsers on the root menu, so I have a way to run them after logging in and starting X.
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1371[16:22:16] <bernyrd> hi I need to run a kernel 3.13 or less
1372[16:22:29] <bernyrd> I will do this thang on a vee-emm
1373[16:22:41] <bernyrd> but how do I prepare a system with an old kernel
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1375[16:24:50] <greycat> Install wheezy. Upgrade it to jessie, and then to stretch, but keep the kernel untouched.
1376[16:25:11] <greycat> Or, if you feel brave, you could try installing your 3.13 or older kernel on a stretch system and try booting it to see if it works.
1377[16:25:48] <bernyrd> thanks a boatload my dizzle-dog
1378[16:26:04] <bernyrd> the last one will likely have libc issues
1379[16:26:32] <bernyrd> wait, youre a cat
1380[16:27:02] <bernyrd> I may not do any upgrades as I just need one package, making a VM for this because do not feel safe on old kernel anyway
1381[16:27:24] <bernyrd> someone made usbip backwards-incompatible for some reason
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1383[16:29:52] <annadane> wait, i'm an idiot. i have panels, i can add stuff to the pane
1384[16:29:55] <annadane> panel
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1387[16:31:14] * annadane reprograms fingers + brain to stop hitting enter one letter too early every single time
1388[16:31:45] <jelly> greycat: you have to open terms and browsers MANUALLY, they don't get restored?
1389[16:31:57] <jelly> in their right places?
1390[16:32:18] <greycat> I start a bunch of terminals in the places I want them, but not browsers. I do those manually.
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1392[16:32:59] <greycat> I have the terminals on the menu so I can make even MORE of them
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1394[16:33:11] <quakenet> INVITED: Hello I invite you to a great chat service >< IRC quakenet ORG <<< #philosophy #DALnet , #NASA , #Freenode , #LOVE
1395[16:33:41] <greycat> Buster libc6/NEWS.Debian.gz file says "Starting with version 2.26-1, the glibc requires a 3.2 or later Linux kernel."
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1402[16:34:19] <greycat> So, you're good with 3.13 up through at least buster as far as libc goes. Individual apps or libraries outside of libc may have different requirements.
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1431[17:02:12] <bernyrd> greycat: well there is a quiet big issue I think
1432[17:02:18] <bernyrd> greycat: the 7.11 mirrors may be down
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1435[17:02:26] <greycat> *sigh*
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1438[17:03:05] <bernyrd> are the source package still up? I can maybe build them myself
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1440[17:03:16] <bernyrd> the installer fails on the mirror selection step
1441[17:03:20] <annadane> !snapshots
1442[17:03:21] <dpkg> replaced-url
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1449[17:05:11] <greycat> dpkg, no, wheezy sources.list is <reply>Debian 7 "wheezy" is archived. A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for wheezy has two lines: «deb replaced-url
1450[17:05:12] <dpkg> okay, greycat
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1453[17:06:21] <greycat> oh crap, wheezy doesn't really have apt(8) does it...
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1455[17:06:29] <greycat> dpkg, wheezy sources.list =~ s/apt update/apt-get update/
1456[17:06:29] <dpkg> OK, greycat
1457[17:07:05] <greycat> the original had «aptitude update» but who the hell uses that
1458[17:07:55] <bernyrd> thanks offwhite feline
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1461[17:08:36] <bernyrd> I get similar missing repo issue for security updates, I know it isn't supported but should I also pull from elsewhere?
1462[17:09:01] *** Parts: diogenes_ (~diogenes_@replaced-ip) ("vergissmeinnicht")
1463[17:09:27] <greycat> Grrrr.
1464[17:10:19] <greycat> dpkg, no, wheezy sources.list is <reply>Debian 7 "wheezy" is archived. A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for wheezy has one line: «deb replaced-url
1465[17:10:19] <dpkg> okay, greycat
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1467[17:11:51] <jhutchins_wk> greycat: I am in the habit of using aptitude, at least for installs and upgrades.
1468[17:12:07] <greycat> It's explicitly dis-recommended for release upgrades.
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1470[17:12:33] <jhutchins_wk> bernyrd: I believe all of the updates were rolled into the main repo like for a point release.
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1472[17:12:53] <jhutchins_wk> bernyrd: It doesn't make sense to have an updates repo if there aren't any updates.
1473[17:13:27] <bernyrd> I thought that may have happened but didn't want to assume
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1490[17:26:16] <i3pd> Getting Debian going on an ARM board was surprisingly easier than I thought it would be.
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1547[17:40:45] <bernyrd> oh no
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1549[17:40:59] <bernyrd> greycat it looks like wheezy ships with 3.2.0
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1551[17:41:10] <greycat> you said 3.13 or older, yes?
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1553[17:41:24] <bernyrd> oh wait
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1586[18:02:52] <BCMM> i3pd: what board? and what did you use? armbian images? debootstrap?
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1588[18:03:21] <makayabou> Is it possible packages from stretch backports using apt install package-name/stretch-backports or package-name/stable-backports ?
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1590[18:03:38] <makayabou> * possible to install
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1593[18:07:04] <tristero> makayabou: I don't see why not (if those are in your sources.list). Also "apt-get -t stretch-backports package" should work (probably better if there are dependencies that need to come from backports too)
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1595[18:07:31] <tristero> ^ should be an "install" in that 2nd apt-get
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1597[18:09:53] <makayabou> I would like to use the syntax package-name/source to use it in a script (generate a list of packages, then install them using apt or debconf on install)
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1600[18:10:04] <martin-_-_> hi, when I execute dpkg -l I want to grep all packages with a specific description
1601[18:10:10] <martin-_-_> how can I do that?
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1604[18:11:30] <i3pd> BCMM: IMX6ULL-EVK using debootstrap
1605[18:11:32] <jelly> martin-_-_: what's stopping from just grepping?
1606[18:11:53] <martin-_-_> jelly I tried this dpkg -l | grep Package created with checkinstall 1.5.3 without success
1607[18:12:20] <jelly> martin-_-_: quote the whole string
1608[18:12:31] <jelly> martin-_-_: dpkg -l | grep 'Package created with checkinstall 1.5.3'
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1610[18:13:19] <martin-_-_> silly me thanks ^^
1611[18:13:29] <jelly> otherwise, grep searches for 'Package' in files "created", "with", "checkinstall" and "1.5.3"
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1614[18:14:05] <zhivatma> hi guyds
1615[18:14:41] <zhivatma> could somebody tell me why cgroups do not work in debian stretch ?
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1618[18:14:59] <jelly> martin-_-_: this isn't terribly correct (you'd want grep -F, and if you have a search term without spaces you might find package names instead of description) but is probably good enough
1619[18:15:33] <martin-_-_> aha thanks jelly
1620[18:16:09] <zhivatma> I have tried everything, cgoups just fail to limit memory
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1645[18:24:53] <subcool> Hey, i was looking for clarificaiton.
1646[18:25:06] <subcool> im following this guide: replaced-url
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1651[18:26:51] <subcool> And- i referring back to the original installation guideline of the file systems- It says to "SDA4 - reserverd for LVM" - Do i setup the LVM witht the Debian GUI Installation? Or wait for later when i install the LVM. - SEcondly, if i install it now. HOw do i do that? Lol. I tried to "configure LVM" - But it looked like it was about to setup stuff, im going to setup with the guide.
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1656[18:29:07] <mutante> subcool: you can just select it during the installer
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1659[18:29:43] <mutante> LUKS with LVM ..or so.
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1661[18:30:19] <subcool> mutante, the guide has a particular way of being setup, its jacked me a few times already. -
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1663[18:32:11] <mutante> subcool: i don't think i ever followed official guide.. heh. but in the installer steps it will get to the disk partitioning and you can tell it to automatically do most of it and select LVM
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1665[18:32:28] <subcool> im following a guide to install Xen-
1666[18:32:35] <subcool> not the basic Debian install guide.
1667[18:32:36] <mutante> Encrypted Filesystem + LVM and accept the layout it recommends
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1670[18:33:06] <mutante> eh..ok.. but doesn't the Xen part come after the OS is installed?
1671[18:33:51] <subcool> this guide is VERY particular- and im not familliar with this stuff to be modding it freely. Im so tired of doing it that way, im actually following the guide STEP by step this time. (im pretty ticked)
1672[18:34:04] <subcool> He wants this : replaced-url
1673[18:34:25] <subcool> i had this: replaced-url
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1677[18:34:43] <subcool> and i kept getting an error while trying to pvcreate onto sda5
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1688[18:37:34] <mutante> subcool: sorry, no clue why you don't have an sda4 but i guess it doesnt matter for running xen
1689[18:37:59] <mutante> i mean,you do have a swap and a boot and a root.. seems ok?
1690[18:38:46] <subcool> yeah, no idea. lol
1691[18:39:28] <zhivatma> do cgroups work inside kvm guest ?
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1694[18:41:20] <jmcnaught> zhivatma: yes
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1705[18:46:13] <subcool> SO, can i create an SDA4 - for lvm but not create any groups?
1706[18:46:29] <subcool> do i create it as an Ext4?
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1709[18:47:02] <greycat> LVM is like a layer of virtual disks in between the REAL hardware and the partitions/file systems.
1710[18:47:28] <greycat> Under LVM, you turn real disks or partitions into "volume groups". Within those, you create "logical volumes" which are like partitions. You can put file systems on LVs.
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1718[18:52:06] <subcool> greycat, ok--- so is the root file system of the lvm Ext4?
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1720[18:52:39] <greycat> If your root file system is in an LV which is in a VG... you can make it whatever kind of file system you want. ext4 is the default.
1721[18:52:55] <subcool> greycat, before the vg
1722[18:53:07] <greycat> Before the VG layer, there ARE NO file systems.
1723[18:53:35] <subcool> replaced-url
1724[18:54:21] <subcool> The guide wants this: replaced-url
1725[18:54:30] <greycat> If you're installing Debian on a single disk with the intent to use LVM and possibly other fancy stuff, a common technique is to use two REAL partitions on the disk: one for /boot and one for LVM. Turn the second real partition into a volume group, then create LVs inside it.
1726[18:55:00] <greycat> There are many, many other ways to do it.
1727[18:55:14] <subcool> but- im not familiar, thus im stuck.
1728[18:55:31] <greycat> That's why I'm explaining the Big Picture stuff.
1729[18:55:44] <subcool> i get the bigger picture, - i just dont know how to do it.
1730[18:56:10] <subcool> for instance, i dont know how to single out the partitoin the LVM is going to be on.
1731[18:56:38] <jelly> inside the installer, or at all?
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1733[18:56:44] <greycat> I haven't used the installer in a long time. I believe there's a menu choice for it.
1734[18:56:48] <subcool> If i leave it as empty space, and when i install LVM to the system, and or use pvcreate to identify the LVM parititon, itll be free space, so it wont have a SD(x) designation
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1737[18:57:08] <subcool> jelly, both
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1740[18:57:32] <greycat> there should be some choice like "use this partition for LVM", alongside "use this partition as swap" and so on
1741[18:57:53] <subcool> So- while im in the debian gui install, i have tried to use the LVM config manager to setup the lvm on to SDa4,
1742[18:58:03] <jelly> in partman, manual or guided partitioning, you create a partition and the menus ask you what it's going to be used for. If you pick LVM, it puts a PV there and then you need to create LVs inside
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1744[18:58:57] <subcool> greycat, there is- thank you
1745[18:59:08] <jelly> if however you want luks, there are different options for layering things on one other
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1747[18:59:40] <jelly> LVs on top of LUKS on top of partition is common
1748[18:59:45] <subcool> jelly, i am probably going to- but- after i have a better handle on this. -
1749[19:00:07] <subcool> if i f' myself, i dont want the issues of trying to decrypt luks... while fixing it..
1750[19:00:10] <subcool> but- it is on my todo
1751[19:00:39] <subcool> Thank you!
1752[19:00:53] <zhivatma> I bet cgroups are bugged in stretch, I created programm to eat 100Mb memory, under root it works as intended and eats 100Mb, and ps shows it, but this memory eater under user in cgroup eats 100Mb too, but ps shows memory usage = 2.6 Mb lol
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1755[19:01:30] <greycat> resource limits predate cgroups by, like, decades.
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1757[19:01:44] <greycat> see setrlimit(2) and so on
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1761[19:02:57] <zhivatma> greycat, replace cgroups with ulimit ? I don't think so!
1762[19:03:14] <zhivatma> I just want to memory-jail test user
1763[19:03:28] <greycat> Whatever that means. Have fun.
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1773[19:05:21] <zhivatma> graytron, do ps and top understand cgroup magic ?
1774[19:06:01] <greycat> ps and top have no reason to care about your resource limits, whether those limits are imposed by setrlimit or by crazy linux crap
1775[19:06:16] <greycat> They just report whatever /proc says.
1776[19:06:49] <jim> hi... does a kernel version's mention in /msg dpkg kernels necessarily mean someone packaged it and put it in the archive?
1777[19:07:42] <greycat> yes
1778[19:07:47] <mason> Does the 'firmware' ISO not boot SecureBoot?
1779[19:07:58] <greycat> err, I thought you meant /msg judd kernels
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1781[19:08:04] <greycat> I don't know what dpkg thinks about them
1782[19:08:14] <greycat> dpkg kernels
1783[19:08:16] <dpkg> Linux kernel versions, stable: 5.0.7, mainline: 5.1-rc4, stable 5.0: 5.0.7, stable 4.20: 4.20.17 (EOL), longterm 4.19: 4.19.34, longterm 4.14: 4.14.111, longterm 4.9: 4.9.168, longterm 4.4: 4.4.178, longterm 3.18: 3.18.138 (EOL), longterm 3.16: 3.16.65, linux-next: next-20190412
1784[19:08:25] <greycat> Oh, in THAT case the answer is NO.
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1786[19:08:28] <greycat> judd kernels
1787[19:08:29] <judd> Available kernel versions are: experimental: 4.20.0-trunk-686-pae (4.20-1~exp1); sid: 4.19.0-4-686-pae (4.19.28-2); buster: 4.19.0-4-686-pae (4.19.28-2); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae (4.19.28-2~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.9.0-8-686-pae (4.9.144-3); jessie-backports: 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.8-686-pae (4.9.144-3.1~deb8u1); wheezy-
1788[19:08:30] <judd> backports: 3.16.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae (3.16.39-1+deb8u1~bpo70+1); wheezy: 3.2.0-6-686-pae (3.2.102-1)
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1791[19:09:08] <jim> ok, no 5s in that list
1792[19:09:19] <jim> thanks greycat
1793[19:09:30] <gedia> Hello all, I'm using ifupdown2 which Provides:ifupdown, but when I try to install ucarp which Depends:ifupdown (>= 0.7.1) apt reports a conflict. Is this some sort of cornercase? Should I file a bug?
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1796[19:12:58] <subcool> That was fun- looks like i have to do it again, and this time enforce EFI
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1807[19:20:12] <jelly> gedia: versioned Provides were added recently, replaced-url
1808[19:20:37] <greycat> a 4 digit bug number ...
1809[19:20:51] <greycat> Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 03:03:06 UTC
1810[19:20:53] <jelly> fixed in time for jessie or stretch, don't remember
1811[19:21:15] <greycat> this bug is old enough to vote
1812[19:21:32] <jelly> date suggests jessie but I _think_ the feature was not in Debian 8, only 9
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1816[19:23:30] <jelly> gedia: you could repack ifupdown and edit the control file so it does something like Provides: ifupdown (= 0.8)
1817[19:23:46] <jelly> repack ifupdown2
1818[19:24:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1537
1819[19:24:10] <gedia> jelly: Thanks that is super helpful!
1820[19:24:15] <subcool> seriously- my life is a joke. So there is some special way to install uefi ??
1821[19:24:41] <greycat> Boot the installer in UEFI mode through your computer's firmware.
1822[19:24:46] *** Joins: rpifan (~rpifan@replaced-ip)
1823[19:24:48] <greycat> As opposed to booting it in Legacy mode.
1824[19:24:52] *** Joins: siouxscout (~ryan@replaced-ip)
1825[19:25:03] <subcool> k
1826[19:25:18] <rant> do we have a desktop sharing app that works through a firewall without any configuration.. i.e. something where someone initiates a remote support on their end?
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1829[19:25:41] <rant> I had been using x2go lately and it requires ssh access
1830[19:26:03] *** Joins: zerotech (~zerotech@replaced-ip)
1831[19:26:18] <jelly> rant: a free one, that does not depends on someone else's cloud infrastructure endpoint?
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1834[19:27:12] <jelly> I do not know of one.
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1838[19:28:16] <jhutchins_wk> rant: You could set up VNC or RDP. I think some releases of gnome include a 'share desktop' menu option.
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1840[19:28:23] <jelly> rant: I put autoenabled vpn on the machines I remotely manage, so when family member boots it up, I _can_ ssh into it over the vpn.
1841[19:30:02] <jelly> the vpn server runs on a reasonably affordable 2€/month kvm vps
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1847[19:31:44] <subcool> the tranistion from MBR to UEFI is - ugh. My bios doesnt even have an option of legacy vs UEFI - but i can MANUALLY add UEFI boot files. :/ And there is a secure boot with keys, but - i have to research more on that.
1848[19:32:32] <jelly> if you can disable Secure Boot things are somewhat easier, with stretch. Buster installer is supposed to support it.
1849[19:32:41] <rant> jelly: yeah well I could just as easily use port forwarding on ssh for that as well
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1851[19:33:16] <jelly> rant: you still need a way to make a permanent autostarted ssh session
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1854[19:34:07] <jelly> and tunneling tcp over tcp can have its own issues
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1859[19:37:15] <rant> not really, the issue for me isnt the technical debt of establishing a connection, its the technical debt of determining what sort of router interface is used to even advise how to port forward.. other than using upnproutercontrol or w/e
1860[19:37:25] <subcool> jelly, so - if i have to use UEFI, do i really need /boot?
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1862[19:38:09] <greycat> rant: both clients connect to an external server
1863[19:38:13] <rant> replaced-url
1864[19:38:43] <rant> greycat: no, I was thinking more of just having them connect to the server I have here on my network, simpler.. no middle man, no need to pay anyone
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1866[19:39:09] <greycat> "the server I have here" is the external server, then
1867[19:39:25] <rant> I have an HP T520 Thin Client I use as a server here for my irc and file sharing.. its already on my network
1868[19:39:43] <greycat> what is this "my network"
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1870[19:39:50] <rant> my home LAN
1871[19:39:59] <greycat> then people can't connect to it...?
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1873[19:40:10] <rant> they can if I forward a port to it :D
1874[19:40:34] <greycat> but then you're basically running this rinky-dink service out of your basement on highly fallible consumer grade stuff
1875[19:40:55] <subcool> jelly, im back to where i stared. i need an EFI partition
1876[19:41:08] <rant> yeah well I'm not doing enterprise support here.. just looking to occasionally help family with something
1877[19:41:16] <nojake> oh. why are those better? EFI
1878[19:41:31] <greycat> If you don't have an EFI partition already, why are you insisting on a UEFI installation? Why not just use a regular Legacy/MBR/DOS/BIOS installation?
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1881[19:42:33] <nojake> i mean. things worked so fine back then. since that UEFI stuff i dont understand computers anymore
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1884[19:43:15] <GNU_Pekka> nojake, EFI works for bigger hard disks.
1885[19:43:17] <rant> I think I may look into openvpn, that way I dont have to give any actual access to the machine or prevent it explicitly, I can just create an accessible subnet
1886[19:43:32] <subcool> jelly, nvm. i think i found somethingi can wiggle with...
1887[19:43:32] <nojake> GNU_Pekka, hehe. ic.
1888[19:43:54] <nojake> GNU_Pekka, how big is your hard disk:?
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1890[19:44:49] <nojake> i know it still works with 1TB without EFI
1891[19:44:54] <nojake> or GPT
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1893[19:45:14] <rant> in other news, related to the debian wiki's aweful state.. anyone know of tools to facilitate editing of the wiki? I'd really rather not fool with the web interface and really ideally I wouldnt mind just cloning the damn thing and working on it locally.. cause it needs a LOT of work and it'd be easier to search and do massive edits locally
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1895[19:45:55] <GNU_Pekka> nojake, I don't do much EFI and BIOS stuff. I never really did much of them at all. In the 1990's I made BIOS x86 calls and used the BIOS Setup menu, and now I can use the UEFI Setup menu to boot from a USB bootable drive stick, or a bootable memory chip, I think it is called MiniSD, MicroSD or such. I also look at how old the computer is and how hot it is. I don't do much with it. I can see the temperature with Debian too, with a system tool
1896[19:45:55] <GNU_Pekka> program.
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1899[19:46:50] <subcool> boy do i miss this. :/
1900[19:47:51] <nojake> primary partition, logical drive in extended parition. damn why do i know this? .. maybe in the time ppl were robocopying floppies and suffer from CRC errors on disk 8 we had somehow more time
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1902[19:49:19] <GNU_Pekka> I have a 1TB hard disk in this system.
1903[19:50:09] <nojake> being ten years old i was typing programs from a magazin into my atari. man i didn't know how to save them. and .. lol.. debugging was hard.
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1905[19:50:22] <nojake> rant i appreciate your attitude.
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1908[19:52:45] <GNU_Pekka> nojake, when I was 10, that was in 1990 November till 1991 November, I think we had a PC XT, PC AT (286) or an i386. I copied an x86 assembly game from a MikroBitti magazine and damn that was hard. I think I never got the game program to work. I did not have a proper assembler, all I had was DEBUG.
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1911[19:53:48] <nojake> nice. :)
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1917[19:54:59] <nojake> i mean. for me it was basic. i think i managed to proram a moving line over the screen. though it was blinking hard.
1918[19:55:13] <GNU_Pekka> nojake, I think I got the i486 in 1992 or 1993, and I finally got Turbo Pascal 7.0 and Borland C 3.1 for it, and some assemblers like Turbo Assembler (TASM), and proper games like Maniac Mansion: Day of the Tentacle. lots of good, cool-looking and excellent games came out in 1989-1993 for the PC. like the Sierra On-Line games. and Lucasarts games.
1919[19:55:17] <nojake> and melodies. <3
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1924[19:56:18] <GNU_Pekka> nojake, I tried an Atari ST once, and used the Amiga 500 and Commodore 64 several times. They were my friends' computers.
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1927[19:57:19] <GNU_Pekka> nojake, one of my schoolmates tried to sell me a CBM-128 or C-128 for 50 markka in 1994 or 1995 or 1996, but I refused to buy it since it was outdated hardware.
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1929[19:57:43] <rant> nojake: if you mean in re the wiki, I been considering just starting a new one lately.. its too much headache trying to figure out what in this mess is worth keeping. There is little in this world more annoying than traversing a wiki and editing it via a web browser
1930[19:58:19] <nojake> i had an ATARI XL128 .. it was comparable to the commodore128 .. but the layout was much better. and yeah.. as a friend of my cousin got an amiga we were recording vhs videos .. just to watch the beautiful graphics at home.lol
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1932[19:58:39] <greycat> *plonk*
1933[19:59:19] <nojake> i mean.. it was partly just loading screens ..
1934[19:59:33] <nojake> shadow of the beast <3
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1936[20:00:03] <nojake> hi gcat
1937[20:00:14] <{xmb}> can someone tell me how to load a default .cfg by grub cmd line
1938[20:00:31] <subcool> whats the network tools package name?
1939[20:00:34] <subcool> i really hate this guide.
1940[20:00:46] <nojake> net-tools
1941[20:00:46] <greycat> iproute2
1942[20:00:58] <greycat> replaced-url
1943[20:01:10] <greycat> if rant whines that it's a web page, /ignore him
1944[20:01:27] <nojake> they are all crap.
1945[20:01:36] <subcool> greycat, the guide said not to install GUI, so i didnt.. - now.. i have no tools.
1946[20:02:11] <greycat> what "guide"?
1947[20:02:23] <subcool> XenProject Guide
1948[20:02:30] <greycat> and that is ...?
1949[20:02:43] <subcool> replaced-url
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1952[20:02:50] <subcool> Free-bee Citrix server
1953[20:02:50] <Sleaker> oooh I grew up on Macs :P
1954[20:02:55] *** Quits: obsvw (obsview@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1955[20:03:00] <subcool> Sleaker, werent we spoiled
1956[20:03:06] <{xmb}> greycat u happen to know grub cmd line ? the one without menus only limited text cmds
1957[20:03:10] <Sleaker> yah apple IIe computer lab in grade school.
1958[20:03:18] <Sleaker> parents bought a performa 400 for the family.
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1960[20:03:21] <subcool> i think we all learned how to type on those..
1961[20:03:31] * greycat goes to replaced-url
1962[20:03:44] <Sleaker> got hooked on Oregon Trail in 2nd grade :D
1963[20:03:53] *** Quits: Guest24779 (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1964[20:04:14] <Sleaker> and there was an escape from the south game too.
1965[20:04:25] <rant> you think you guys could perhaps take the social chatter to a social channel? defocus, chat, #debian-offtopic, etc
1966[20:04:34] *** Quits: TomyWork (~tomy@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
1967[20:04:48] <nojake> usually i find nice tutorials on medium.com .. and so i looked for something on dbus. .. now look at this introducing graph: replaced-url
1968[20:04:48] <Sleaker> rant: I'll just stop :P
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1971[20:06:03] <rant> I can't tell if there are actual issues in here right now or not.. other than greycat being pissy as usual, cause I dont like editing wiki via web interfaces :P
1972[20:06:05] <nojake> aha aha.. arrows connect parts of some shit .. and most of them are 'dbus' .. but one is websocket and one is a unix socket.
1973[20:06:41] <greycat> subcool: you're setting up some kind of server, so you should be comfortable with a server-type environment (shell and editing files and running core Debian commands)
1974[20:06:42] <nojake> fog is correct.
1975[20:06:49] <greycat> I don't know what you're looking for specifically.
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1981[20:09:27] <subcool> greycat, i do a lot via gui - .Im switching to debian from ubuntu. Everything im trying to run is either freebsd or debian. so- im going little by little away from the GUI.
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1995[20:19:55] <nojake> clear APT cache .. old files or all files. why is there a APT cache? is that what is updated on apt-get update .. i guess no.
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1997[20:20:34] <nojake> subcool: you want to edit some wiki with a shell?
1998[20:20:39] <nojake> why?
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2000[20:20:57] <Sleaker> nojake: are you talking about /var/apt/cache/archive or the apt-cache command?
2001[20:21:18] <Sleaker> sorry - I mean /var/cache/apt/archive
2002[20:21:38] <nojake> sleaker: are you saying they are even several caches
2003[20:21:41] <jhutchins_wk> nojake: Because having a graphical interface for a purely text-based task is silly.
2004[20:21:56] *** Quits: ussie (~ussie@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
2005[20:22:08] <Sleaker> nojake: I'm asking you if you're referring to the downloaded package cache, or the informational apt cache
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2007[20:22:36] <Sleaker> apt has a cache of packages it knows about that can be queries through the apt-cache program
2008[20:22:47] <Sleaker> it gets updated when you run apt update
2009[20:23:14] <nojake> so how do you edit that wiki. is there a repo?
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2012[20:23:52] <Sleaker> nojake: you're not really making any sense.
2013[20:24:04] <nojake> or do you execute http posts via telnet .. the leisure way :p0
2014[20:24:16] *** Quits: jfoy (~jfoy@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2015[20:24:21] <nojake> im not really making sense.
2016[20:24:23] <nojake> lol
2017[20:24:41] <nojake> look. i asked wht the fucking cache is for.
2018[20:24:52] <nojake> what dont u understand about the question
2019[20:25:15] *** Quits: Gyro (~user@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020[20:25:25] <nojake> "nojake: are you talking about /var/apt/cache/archive or the apt-cache command?"
2021[20:26:19] *** Quits: dreamon (~dreamon@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2022[20:26:28] <jelly> nojake: and they're asking "which cache", there's a cache of .deb package and a cache of metadata from repos.
2023[20:26:28] <nojake> is that all?
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2025[20:27:08] *** Joins: yvyz (~yvyz@replaced-ip)
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2027[20:27:42] <nojake> jelly: i did ask if there are several caches. as a follow up. and then i "dont make any sense"
2028[20:28:30] <nojake> a good answer would be: there is one cache doing that. another doing that. u can clear them that ways. 1 line.
2029[20:28:33] <nojake> 2
2030[20:28:35] <jelly> nojake: the answer to that is "yes", there are several different types of things apt caches (under /var/cache/apt)
2031[20:28:35] <nojake> at max.
2032[20:28:35] *** Quits: zamuro (~Samantha@replaced-ip) (Quit: [IRSSI])
2033[20:28:56] *** Quits: lingkhang (~lingkhang@replaced-ip) (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
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2035[20:29:13] *** Joins: conta (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
2036[20:30:08] <nojake> i did got that.
2037[20:30:26] <jelly> nojake: you want to help us help you, keep in mind people have different levels of knowledge and command of English language
2038[20:30:32] *** Joins: dastier (~dastier@replaced-ip)
2039[20:31:01] <nojake> you prefer another language?
2040[20:31:18] <jelly> nojake: so it's best to focus on the tech stuff, avoid incendiary rhetorics
2041[20:31:27] <nojake> shall i repeat?
2042[20:31:38] <indomitable> wat
2043[20:31:43] <Sleaker> I said you weren't making sense because you started asking about how to edit 'that wiki'
2044[20:31:51] <Sleaker> but you were just asking questions about apt's cache.
2045[20:31:55] <Sleaker> I see how those are unrelated.
2046[20:31:56] <Tenkawa> nojake: lets start with... "what is the goal are you trying to accomplish?"
2047[20:31:59] <nojake> why is there a APT cache? (several cahches)
2048[20:32:09] <indomitable> nojake, so you download less stuff
2049[20:32:10] <indomitable> next question
2050[20:32:23] <jelly> nojake: to make things faster
2051[20:33:08] <nojake> indomitable: good point! now..ok one holds the packages.. and the other?
2052[20:33:20] <indomitable> nojake, probably holds other kinds of packages
2053[20:33:20] <indomitable> :P
2054[20:33:26] <subcool> I still dont get how this install crashes my computer- to the point ih ave to pull the batter. I really dont get it.
2055[20:33:28] <jelly> [20:26] <jelly> nojake: and they're asking "which cache", there's a cache of .deb package and a cache of metadata from repos.
2056[20:33:33] <jelly> nojake: ^^
2057[20:33:33] <subcool> Its a freaking laptop
2058[20:33:37] <indomitable> ok fine jelly wins this one
2059[20:33:39] <nojake> ah ok.
2060[20:33:42] <indomitable> one day I'm going to surpass you jelly
2061[20:33:46] *** Quits: conta (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2062[20:33:51] <indomitable> and i'll do it by adding lemon and sugar to gelatine
2063[20:33:53] <Sleaker> or just read my response from 5 minutes ago too :P
2064[20:33:56] <jelly> indomitable: I hope to retire!
2065[20:33:57] <nojake> now how can i clear them?
2066[20:34:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1536
2067[20:34:02] <indomitable> jelly, seems implausible
2068[20:34:17] <Tenkawa> nojake: yuo dont
2069[20:34:20] <Tenkawa> er you
2070[20:34:30] *** Quits: BCMM (~BCMM@replaced-ip) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2071[20:34:40] <jelly> nojake: "apt-get clean" cleans the package cache. You don't clean the metadata cache manually, ever.
2072[20:34:52] <Tenkawa> you can clear the download cache but not the metadata cache
2073[20:35:01] *** Joins: tempora (~tempus@replaced-ip)
2074[20:35:12] <Tenkawa> like jelly said
2075[20:35:19] <nojake> jelly: what infos are in the metadata cache?
2076[20:35:25] *** Joins: dreamon (~dreamon@replaced-ip)
2077[20:35:34] <Tenkawa> jelly: point him to the wiki
2078[20:35:35] <nojake> garbage that prevents me from updating properly?
2079[20:35:45] <nojake> wow.
2080[20:35:49] <jelly> nojake: info about what's in repos. Why do you ask?
2081[20:35:59] <nojake> man
2082[20:36:09] <nojake> because i want to know.
2083[20:36:09] <Tenkawa> nojake: no.. info that keeps you from from messing up its integrity
2084[20:36:30] <nojake> version name.. signature .. source ... what?
2085[20:36:37] <jelly> nojake: if you merely "want to know", why are you making combative comments like "garbage that prevents me from updating properly"?
2086[20:36:38] <nojake> deps?
2087[20:36:56] <nojake> jelly: it could be. no?
2088[20:37:15] <nojake> what if i downloaded some fake packages.
2089[20:37:19] *** Joins: hagridaaron (~hagridaar@replaced-ip)
2090[20:37:22] <nojake> he?
2091[20:37:32] <nojake> thats fucking tiring.
2092[20:37:43] <nojake> point him to the wiki
2093[20:37:54] <jelly> nojake: they contain info about replaced-url
2094[20:38:21] <Tenkawa> nojake: do you not understand why messing with the integrity of the setup can mess it up?
2095[20:38:27] *** Quits: tuxed (~tuxed@replaced-ip) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2096[20:38:28] <jelly> nojake: next rudeness gets you quieted for an hour
2097[20:38:42] *** Joins: srgg (~srgg@replaced-ip)
2098[20:39:16] <Tenkawa> we are trying to help..
2099[20:39:38] *** Joins: jak2000 (~jak2000@replaced-ip)
2100[20:39:47] <nojake> ok. ill be more specific: i get some weird info about packages being configured to update manually. i never configured such a thing. can i somehow refresh the entire apt config? i mean restore it as it is by default?
2101[20:40:21] <jelly> nojake: which command gives this info?
2102[20:40:26] *** Quits: sasukeskapa (~sasukeska@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
2103[20:40:34] <siouxscout> exit
2104[20:40:37] <siouxscout> ha
2105[20:40:42] *** Quits: siouxscout (~ryan@replaced-ip) (Quit: leaving)
2106[20:41:24] <nojake> how can i restore the apt config.
2107[20:42:14] <nojake> any idea?
2108[20:42:20] <jelly> !ask
2109[20:42:21] <dpkg> If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
2110[20:42:23] *** Quits: Ericounet (~Eric@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2111[20:42:26] <jelly> nojake: ^
2112[20:42:35] <nojake> how can i restore the apt config?
2113[20:43:01] <jelly> nojake: can tell us a specific command that does not work as expected?
2114[20:43:24] <jelly> "restore the apt config" is too vague to help
2115[20:43:46] <nojake> anybody else?
2116[20:43:53] <jelly> it is possible that multiple commands behave weirdly. Start with one.
2117[20:43:58] <jhutchins_wk> I agree with jelly
2118[20:44:12] <jelly> (or multiple tools, might be a GUI)
2119[20:44:29] <nojake> anyway would do.
2120[20:44:38] *** Quits: platvoeten (~platvoete@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2121[20:45:25] *** Joins: bernyrd (4ad10c13@replaced-ip)
2122[20:45:29] <jelly> nojake: if you can't point at ONE command and its output and point out what is wrong, there's little to go on
2123[20:45:37] <nojake> it's that 'can u tell us' .. now anyone who would help would betray that 'us'. right?
2124[20:45:58] *** Quits: lucad111 (~lucad111@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
2125[20:46:03] <jhutchins_wk> no, you really haven't asked a question we can answer.
2126[20:46:11] <obsvw> You ran apt update? It threw an error?
2127[20:46:18] <jelly> nojake: focus on the tech issue, please, not my wording
2128[20:46:34] <obsvw> You looked at a package with apt show and it showed manually installed?
2129[20:47:02] *** Joins: newnerd (~newnerd@replaced-ip)
2130[20:47:03] <nojake> obsvw, it tells me packages were configured to update manually. which i found weird. i want to get updates.
2131[20:47:03] <bernyrd> hi I need to use windows version usbip 0.2.0
2132[20:47:12] <bernyrd> for this I need 3.1.3 (or 3.13?) or lower kernel
2133[20:47:19] <bernyrd> I installed wheezy for this but it's not working
2134[20:47:21] <nojake> obsvw, oh thanks i will try that.
2135[20:47:49] *** Joins: sxar (~sxar@replaced-ip)
2136[20:47:59] *** Joins: Ingvix (~Ingvix@replaced-ip)
2137[20:48:05] <obsvw> I think what everyone's trying to get their heads around is what "it" is. What did you see that said a package was manually updated.
2138[20:48:08] <jelly> _what_ tells you that?
2139[20:48:12] <nojake> i appreciate it a lot man. can we somehow reset? i didnt mean to be rude about the wiki. it was more self-ironic actually.
2140[20:48:13] <jhutchins_wk> nojake: That's not a thing. We conclude that you are misinterpreting something, but you won't show us what, you just describe your misinterpretation
2141[20:48:33] <jelly> nojake: show the exact command line and full output, in a pastebin.
2142[20:48:35] <jelly> !paste
2143[20:48:35] <dpkg> Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: replaced-url
2144[20:48:45] *** Joins: Prints (~333@replaced-ip)
2145[20:49:23] <jelly> that way we, yes we, anyone in this channel, do not have to guess
2146[20:49:23] *** Quits: craigevil (~craigevil@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2147[20:49:25] <nojake> obsvw, i really dont know anymore. i just would like to restore the configuration of apt to its default (stretch). all i know is how to setup the souces.list
2148[20:49:50] *** Quits: towo` (~towo@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2149[20:50:06] *** Quits: wonderer (~quakeroat@replaced-ip) (Quit: Famous quotes #4: "Assassins!" - Arturo Toscanini (1867-1957) to his orchestra)
2150[20:50:19] *** Quits: Tom-_ (tomg@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
2151[20:50:26] <nojake> anything more specific would only mislead you further.
2152[20:50:38] <nojake> i just want apt to work normally.
2153[20:50:49] <jhutchins_wk> nojake: It probably already is.
2154[20:50:51] *** Joins: craigevil (~craigevil@replaced-ip)
2155[20:51:21] <jhutchins_wk> nojake: Have you edited any of the apt* configuration files?
2156[20:51:22] <nojake> how is that not understanable.
2157[20:51:29] <jelly> I want world peace and people to show actual symptoms, but you can't always get what you want
2158[20:51:53] *** Joins: Brigo (~Brigo@replaced-ip)
2159[20:51:58] <nojake> no .. but there are some 'hooks' running.. scripts that do all kind of stuff. change other scripts and blah.
2160[20:52:01] <Tenkawa> jelly: isnt that the truth
2161[20:52:03] <nojake> so ther is no way.
2162[20:52:11] <nojake> no way to get it a fresh config.
2163[20:52:16] <nojake> game over.
2164[20:52:22] <nojake> install a new.
2165[20:52:25] <nojake> lol
2166[20:52:25] <jelly> yes.
2167[20:52:30] <jelly> thanks for playing.
2168[20:52:31] <nojake> lol
2169[20:52:35] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o jelly
2170[20:52:36] *** jelly sets mode: +q *!~nojake@gateway/*
2171[20:52:37] <jhutchins_wk> nojake: You apparently know less than you think you know. We'd be glad to help, but you won't cooperate.
2172[20:52:37] *** ChanServ sets mode: -o jelly
2173[20:53:03] <jelly> nojake: quieted for 1 hour. Please rethink your approach to getting free help.
2174[20:53:33] *** Quits: wwilliam (~afernande@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2175[20:53:56] <Tenkawa> on to something more constructive
2176[20:54:17] <Tenkawa> Steam being ported to Linux = Evil!!!!
2177[20:54:22] <Tenkawa> haahaa
2178[20:54:37] * Tenkawa has regained classic goodies he lost
2179[20:54:47] <jelly> getting a paste or a screenshot of actual commands is apparently forbidden for some
2180[20:55:16] <Tenkawa> and woe It runs nice in Debian
2181[20:55:19] <Tenkawa> er wow
2182[20:56:30] *** Joins: tuxed (~tuxed@replaced-ip)
2183[20:56:37] *** Joins: towo` (~towo@replaced-ip)
2184[20:57:46] <Ingvix> I don't understand how to get openvpn init.d script to use my .conf file residing in /etc/openvpn/. Somehow I've gotten it to use it before but now with a fresh installation I have no idea.
2185[20:57:47] *** Joins: martastain (~martastai@replaced-ip)
2186[20:58:00] *** Quits: Vizva (~Vizva@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2187[20:59:55] *** Quits: dethos (~dethos@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2188[21:00:08] *** Joins: well_laid_lawn (~Jean-luc@replaced-ip)
2189[21:00:17] *** Joins: twiggy (twiggy@replaced-ip)
2190[21:00:39] *** Quits: llucenic_ (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2191[21:00:56] <Sleaker> Tenkawa: how is a ported application evil?
2192[21:01:00] <Sleaker> I'm confused.
2193[21:01:15] <Tenkawa> i was being funny
2194[21:01:19] *** Quits: BlueByte (~walther@replaced-ip) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2195[21:01:22] <Tenkawa> It is awesome
2196[21:01:29] <Sleaker> pretty sure it was built specifically for debian to start with, so no real surprise there
2197[21:01:34] <Tenkawa> I really missed it so much
2198[21:01:37] *** Quits: hagridaaron (~hagridaar@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2199[21:01:42] <Sleaker> steamOS was a branch of jessie wasn't it?
2200[21:01:48] <Sleaker> or rebuilt version of jessie
2201[21:02:02] <Tenkawa> I played some of those games a ton back when they came out
2202[21:03:35] *** Joins: wwilliam (~afernande@replaced-ip)
2203[21:04:07] *** Quits: Rad_Ed (Rad_Ed@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2204[21:04:41] <Tenkawa> Between Steam and Epic games I'm in trouble
2205[21:04:43] *** Quits: twiggy (twiggy@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2206[21:04:51] <Tenkawa> I'm trying to learn Fortnite
2207[21:05:03] <Tenkawa> I've gotten really rusty at fps
2208[21:05:39] *** Quits: bernyrd (4ad10c13@replaced-ip) (Quit: Page closed)
2209[21:05:41] <indomitable> Tenkawa, are you older than 15?
2210[21:05:43] <Sleaker> do they instaldo they have native linux binaries?
2211[21:05:51] *** Joins: Mathisen (~mathisen@replaced-ip)
2212[21:05:51] <Tenkawa> Sleaker: dual boot
2213[21:05:58] <Sleaker> ah.
2214[21:06:00] <Tenkawa> indomitable: i'm ancient
2215[21:06:04] <indomitable> Tenkawa, then play something else
2216[21:06:12] <Sleaker> define ancient :P
2217[21:06:14] <indomitable> I find it deeply disturbing when adults play that game
2218[21:06:18] <Tenkawa> older than probablty 98% in here
2219[21:06:23] <indomitable> Sleaker, fortnite is a playground for pedophiles
2220[21:06:23] <Sleaker> fair.
2221[21:06:29] <Sleaker> it is?
2222[21:06:31] <indomitable> adult people playing fortnite without their kids present are weird fa
2223[21:06:33] <indomitable> af*
2224[21:06:33] <Tenkawa> why?
2225[21:06:39] *** Quits: jfoy (~jfoy@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2226[21:06:52] <Tenkawa> first thing I did was turn my audio/mic off
2227[21:06:54] <indomitable> Tenkawa, do you show up to kids' swim meets without having a kid present?
2228[21:06:55] <Sleaker> indomitable: yah you have a wierd view of online gaming then, or don't understand demographics of current gaming culture.
2229[21:07:04] <indomitable> Sleaker, some games are less diverse than others
2230[21:07:05] <indomitable> lol
2231[21:07:15] *** Quits: electro33 (uid613@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2232[21:07:15] <indomitable> fortnite is ... largely 9-14 year olds
2233[21:07:21] <bytefray> no, it isn't
2234[21:07:22] <Tenkawa> I just played a ton of fps
2235[21:07:25] <indomitable> bytefray, yes it is
2236[21:07:30] <indomitable> most definitely is
2237[21:07:41] *** Joins: hagridaaron (~hagridaar@replaced-ip)
2238[21:07:48] <Sleaker> indomitable: replaced-url
2239[21:07:55] * jelly points the non-support chat in the general direction of #debian-offtopic
2240[21:07:59] *** Joins: stefanc_diff (~stefanc_d@replaced-ip)
2241[21:08:07] <indomitable> jelly, recommend you do some research into how they measure this statistic
2242[21:08:13] <indomitable> ...kids dont' play on their own accounts
2243[21:08:16] <indomitable> they play on their parents' accounts
2244[21:08:44] <indomitable> I don't know a single adult who plays fortnite without having kids who play fortnite...
2245[21:08:44] *** Quits: newnerd (~newnerd@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
2246[21:08:56] <cryptodan> i know of several
2247[21:09:01] <bytefray> as do I
2248[21:09:04] *** Joins: russw (~russ@replaced-ip)
2249[21:09:08] <Sleaker> ditto
2250[21:09:08] <Tenkawa> I got a copy for free with my computer
2251[21:09:10] <indomitable> you're hanging out in weird, weird environments
2252[21:09:13] *** Quits: fling (~fling@replaced-ip##) (Quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb1~bpo9+1 - ##replaced-url
2253[21:09:17] <Tenkawa> thats only reason I play
2254[21:09:21] <Sleaker> indomitable: you seem to be the outlier here.
2255[21:09:29] <indomitable> Sleaker, i'm really not but float your own boat
2256[21:09:36] <indomitable> if I was a cop I'd be looking at you fellas real hard atm
2257[21:09:44] *** Joins: we6jbo (~we6jbo@replaced-ip)
2258[21:09:47] <Sleaker> and you'd be wasting your time *shrug*
2259[21:09:51] <indomitable> hopefully :)
2260[21:10:03] *** Quits: CrazyEddy (crazyed@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2261[21:10:04] *** Quits: traveltissues_ (~traveltis@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2262[21:10:54] <Sleaker> even if kids were playing on their parents accounts, that doesn't explain why the demographic is largely situated in the 18-24 category. You expect 18-24 year olds to have 15 year old kids?
2263[21:11:03] *** Quits: Penguin_ (~xwQ5kwYl6@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2264[21:11:08] * Sleaker sighs
2265[21:11:15] <russw> I'm having apt update problems with (I think) a jessie-backports repo...
2266[21:11:16] <russw> replaced-url
2267[21:11:24] <greycat> !jessie-updates
2268[21:11:24] <dpkg> jessie-updates was a suite providing updates to some packages (from <proposed-updates>) prior to a <point release>. All packages from jessie-updates were included in point releases. replaced-url
2269[21:11:25] <russw> anyone have any idea what is up there?
2270[21:11:27] <greycat> Just a guess.
2271[21:11:48] <Sleaker> russw: it's no longer available
2272[21:11:49] <jelly> yes.
2273[21:11:59] <russw> well darn
2274[21:12:03] *** Joins: fling (~fling@replaced-ip)
2275[21:12:19] <Sleaker> there's a jessie-updates repo now
2276[21:12:27] <jelly> russw: moved to archive.debian.org, not updated since... also 2018 probably
2277[21:12:30] <greycat> They ... recreated one?!
2278[21:12:37] <greycat> Or are you just mistaken?
2279[21:12:41] *** Quits: wwilliam (~afernande@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2280[21:12:47] *** Joins: Penguin_ (~xwQ5kwYl6@replaced-ip)
2281[21:12:51] <Sleaker> greycat: the ftp.debian.org has a jessie-updates dist
2282[21:13:02] <russw> so should I just s/jessie-backports/jessie-updates/ ?
2283[21:13:02] <Sleaker> not sure why it's there but it was updated on 4/4
2284[21:13:06] <russw> or is that too naive?
2285[21:13:11] <jelly> russw: no.
2286[21:13:13] <greycat> russw: those were two completely different things
2287[21:13:15] *** Joins: jnavila (~jnavila@replaced-ip)
2288[21:13:16] <Sleaker> russw: I would not suggest that, you should point at archives.
2289[21:13:22] <Sleaker> archive.debian.org
2290[21:13:38] <jelly> russw: if you do not have or need any packages from jessie-backports, just remove it from your config
2291[21:13:48] <cryptodan> indomitable: most of the adults i know that play fornite that do not have kids are enlisted in the USAF and i work with them, and I have also worked helpdesk for major companies where adults play fortnite without having kids.
2292[21:13:49] <greycat> Sleaker: oh, are you saying that just one random mirror still has a stub jessie-updates repo, unlike all the other mirrors that error out with 404 and drive users to ask us questions about it?
2293[21:13:50] <Sleaker> I don't think jessie is getting anymore backported updates now, so you wont have anything to get though.
2294[21:13:52] <jelly> dpkg -l |grep bpo8
2295[21:13:52] <jelly> ^ have
2296[21:13:52] <dpkg> ii |grep bpo8 3.1-11 jelly's private coin collection
2297[21:13:56] <russw> note sin the file indicate "# to get nginx >= 1.7.5"
2298[21:14:12] <greycat> ,v nginx
2299[21:14:12] *** Quits: Burek (~Burek@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2300[21:14:13] <judd> Package: nginx on amd64 -- jessie: 1.6.2-5+deb8u5; jessie-security: 1.6.2-5+deb8u6; sid: 1.10.1-1; stretch: 1.10.3-1+deb9u2; stretch-security: 1.10.3-1+deb9u2; stretch-backports: 1.14.1-1~bpo9+1; buster: 1.14.2-2; sid: 1.14.2-2
2301[21:14:23] <Sleaker> replaced-url
2302[21:14:29] <russw> wow... great bot help there
2303[21:15:08] *** Joins: th0r (~th0r@replaced-ip)
2304[21:15:09] <Sleaker> oh the contents are all size 20, probably just stubbed out now
2305[21:15:11] <subcool> Of the major file directories, /boot, /root/ , swap and LVM - which have to be primary and which can be logical?
2306[21:15:25] <greycat> russw: snapshot.debian.org has 1.10.3-1+deb9u1~bpo8+2 ... is that good enough?
2307[21:15:38] <jelly> russw: a bpo8 build of nginx will not get any updates, security or otherwise. If you use it in an internal network, keep using it
2308[21:15:40] *** Quits: gd_ (~gd@replaced-ip) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2309[21:15:48] <jelly> if it's exposed to the interwebs, then maybe it's time to upgrade to stretch
2310[21:16:03] <indomitable> cryptodan, I really wouldn't be talking about this in public if I were you
2311[21:16:09] <russw> jelly: what is bp08? I do see it in greycat's link
2312[21:16:21] <greycat> bpo means "backports.org". 8 means jessie.
2313[21:16:26] <russw> ah
2314[21:16:28] <cryptodan> indomitable: why nothing about opsec was in there
2315[21:16:29] <Sleaker> indomitable: what's that supposed to mean?
2316[21:16:30] *** Parts: Tenkawa (~Tenkawa@replaced-ip) ()
2317[21:16:40] <indomitable> I'll leave that to your imaginations
2318[21:16:42] <Sleaker> indomitable: is that supposed to be taken as a threat?
2319[21:16:45] *** Quits: Brigo (~Brigo@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2320[21:16:46] <jelly> russw: that's what "jessie-backports" packages have in their version so it's easy to find them
2321[21:16:47] <indomitable> no, not at all
2322[21:16:55] <indomitable> no one is being threatened
2323[21:17:07] <cryptodan> Sleaker: he was suggesting that i committed a major operational security violation
2324[21:17:16] <cryptodan> and i didnt
2325[21:17:16] <indomitable> I was not
2326[21:17:16] <Sleaker> ah
2327[21:17:19] <russw> man I hate creep. :( Just tryign to get docker on this thing (itself a creeping task) and keep running into issues... now I may have to upgrade to stretch. sigh.
2328[21:17:22] <indomitable> I was suggesting you are probably now on some kind of weird ass watchlist
2329[21:17:24] <indomitable> that no one wants to be on
2330[21:17:26] <cryptodan> indomitable: then explain yourself private
2331[21:17:32] <indomitable> I'm not a private
2332[21:17:36] <indomitable> I never served in a military
2333[21:17:50] <jelly> cryptodan, indomitable: srsly tho. #debian-offtopic is just a /join away
2334[21:18:10] <indomitable> I'm there but the ops / conversations are unreasonable and crazy
2335[21:18:18] <indomitable> can I have a #debian-offtopic-rational spinoff
2336[21:18:18] <jelly> true
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2338[21:18:37] <greycat> It's really rude to have an ongoing offtopic conversation while someone else is actively getting help.
2339[21:18:56] *** Quits: th0r (~th0r@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
2340[21:19:02] <indomitable> greycat, he went "ah", he's fine
2341[21:19:22] <Sleaker> russw: from experience with lxc, needing to keep OS/kernel current is pretty critical to staying up to date with containerization
2342[21:19:22] <greycat> I was referring to russw whose last sentence was actually "sigh."
2343[21:19:23] <borsin> contents of my /etc/grub.d/ were deleted on stretch. how can i restore the default files that were installed there when grub was installed? i've tried reinstalling grub, however, that doesn't replace the files.
2344[21:19:41] <russw> "ah" or not, I'm ok reading between the lines. :) This certainly isn't a twitch stream. :)
2345[21:19:45] <jelly> russw: you can still get jessie-backports from archive.debian.org.
2346[21:20:01] <indomitable> russw, I mean why would you not be upgrading your os?
2347[21:20:02] <jelly> just be aware it's all fixed in time
2348[21:20:09] <greycat> the jessie-backports factoid needs updatin' if you happen to know the new address
2349[21:20:09] <russw> I'm looking into upgrading now
2350[21:20:13] <indomitable> honestly this talk of backports disturbs me :P
2351[21:20:18] <russw> been a long while since I did a major debian version upgrade, though... any tips, or a goo dguide?
2352[21:20:28] <greycat> dpkg, jessie->stretch
2353[21:20:28] <dpkg> Read (at least) the upgrading chapter of the <release notes> replaced-url
2354[21:20:39] <jelly> deb replaced-url
2355[21:20:42] <jelly> !valid-until
2356[21:20:42] <dpkg> i guess valid-until is apt-get/aptitude -o Acquire::Check-Valid-Until=false and/or see replaced-url
2357[21:20:43] <russw> sweet bots in this channel :)
2358[21:20:46] <Sleaker> I never did jessie -> stretch so I don't know how painful it is, but probably moreso if you've been trying to install backports stuff :P
2359[21:21:03] <greycat> replaced-url
2360[21:21:10] <russw> any way to check the extent of my backports?
2361[21:21:18] <greycat> any package version with "bpo" in it
2362[21:21:19] <jelly> russw: dpkg -l | grep bpo8
2363[21:21:19] *** Parts: KindOne (~KindOne@replaced-ip) ("...")
2364[21:21:29] * jelly has a feeling of deja vu
2365[21:21:33] *** Joins: Haudegen (~quassel@replaced-ip)
2366[21:22:06] <russw> jelly: did I miss that earlier? sorry!
2367[21:22:06] *** Quits: tuxed (~tuxed@replaced-ip) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2368[21:22:15] <russw> oh there it is
2369[21:22:37] *** Joins: dethos (~dethos@replaced-ip)
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2372[21:23:09] <russw> replaced-url
2373[21:23:16] <russw> frigging java, though. hmm.
2374[21:23:44] <Sleaker> java is fine
2375[21:24:13] *** Quits: lsyoyom (~liny01@replaced-ip) (Quit: WeeChat 2.4)
2376[21:24:28] <Sleaker> stretch has newer versions
2377[21:24:33] *** Joins: lsyoyom (~liny01@replaced-ip)
2378[21:24:46] <Sleaker> ,deb openjdk-8-jre
2379[21:24:56] <Sleaker> hmm wrong syntax?
2380[21:25:07] <russw> stretch woudl be ideal. I just fear this thing is a frankendebian that will barf horribly at the attempt.
2381[21:25:18] <jelly> Sleaker: mixing repos from different releases can be fatal tho
2382[21:25:23] <Sleaker> jelly: ah syre.
2383[21:25:25] <Sleaker> sure*
2384[21:25:29] *** Joins: aielima (~aielima@replaced-ip)
2385[21:25:31] <russw> is there a clean frankendebian-ometer to precheck?
2386[21:25:33] *** Joins: bouba (~bouba@replaced-ip)
2387[21:25:35] <russw> :)
2388[21:25:35] <jelly> ,v openjdk-8-jre --arch amd64
2389[21:25:36] <judd> Package: openjdk-8-jre on amd64 -- stretch: 8u181-b13-2~deb9u1; sid: 8u191-b12-2; stretch-proposed-updates: 8u212-b01-1~deb9u1; stretch-security: 8u212-b01-1~deb9u1
2390[21:25:44] <Sleaker> ah right it's ,v
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2392[21:26:00] <Sleaker> 8u212 is the most recent security release.
2393[21:26:04] <jelly> but openjdk stuff is probably pretty self contained
2394[21:26:13] <jelly> not that I'm suggesting anything.
2395[21:26:18] <Sleaker> it is
2396[21:26:18] <jelly> I'm not.
2397[21:26:34] <Sleaker> I have to deal with java stuff a lot.
2398[21:26:37] <Sleaker> yay!
2399[21:26:53] <jelly> out vendors still want Oracle Java for some things
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2401[21:26:57] <jelly> our*
2402[21:27:08] <Sleaker> yup, that's what I actually install.
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2407[21:27:16] <russw> I'd rather turf it anyway... not sure what uses it. The seed job here is I'm dockerizing a Jira instance, so hopefully I can get rid of that java install after that, anyway
2408[21:27:31] *** Quits: bouba (~bouba@replaced-ip) (Changing host)
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2410[21:27:34] <jelly> and some want java 11 which isn't in anything
2411[21:27:41] <jelly> ,v openjdk-11-jdk
2412[21:27:42] <judd> Package: openjdk-11-jdk on amd64 -- sid: 11.0.2+9-3; stretch-backports: 11.0.3+1-1~bpo9+1; buster: 11.0.3+1-1
2413[21:27:45] *** Joins: n_1-c_k (~n_1-c_k@replaced-ip)
2414[21:27:45] <jelly> or maybe it is
2415[21:27:53] <Sleaker> yah, I still need to figure out the new modularization thing in 11.
2416[21:28:17] *** Quits: esro (~esro@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
2417[21:28:21] <jelly> russw: isn't docket for ephemeral stuff?
2418[21:28:25] *** Parts: bouba (~bouba@replaced-ip) ()
2419[21:29:16] <jelly> a Jira instance isn't something you can easily reinstall, all the attachments (and I think plugins) are stored on the filesystem
2420[21:29:16] *** Joins: bouba (~bouba@replaced-ip)
2421[21:29:27] *** Quits: martastain (~martastai@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2422[21:29:33] <jelly> docker*
2423[21:30:16] *** Quits: craigevil (~craigevil@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2428[21:34:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1527
2429[21:34:48] <greycat> dpkg, no, jessie backports is <reply>Some packages intended for Stretch (Debian 9) but rebuilt for use with Jessie (Debian 8) can be found in the "jessie-backports" repository. See replaced-url
2430[21:34:48] <dpkg> okay, greycat
2431[21:34:50] <indomitable> jelly, isn't jira where hope goes to die
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2433[21:34:59] *** Quits: cryptodan (~cryptodan@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2436[21:36:24] <russw> jelly: docker is *really* great for services like jira taht don't have .deb packages. Running them in containers makes life much simpler. I have other instances in docker, but not this one. I just need to migrate it.
2437[21:36:50] <jhutchins_wk> jelly: Some people manage to get it working well enough that they deploy it in prod. Most realize their mistake before that point.
2438[21:37:02] *** Joins: Brigo (~Brigo@replaced-ip)
2439[21:37:06] <jelly> greycat: watch out for symlinked factoids around there
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2443[21:37:27] <greycat> ... gah, missed a hyphen
2444[21:37:27] <russw> jhutchins_wk: are you referring to dockerizing jira?
2445[21:37:39] <jhutchins_wk> russw: Docker anything.
2446[21:37:48] *** Quits: craigevil (~craigevil@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
2447[21:37:48] <russw> interesting
2448[21:38:01] <greycat> dpkg, no, jessie-backports is <reply>Some packages intended for Stretch (Debian 9) but rebuilt for use with Jessie (Debian 8) can be found in the "jessie-backports" repository. See replaced-url
2449[21:38:01] <dpkg> greycat: okay
2450[21:38:09] <greycat> dpkg, no, jessie backports is <reply>see jessie-backports
2451[21:38:09] <dpkg> greycat: okay
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2455[21:38:36] <greycat> Too much time spent writing the factoid, not enough time spent double-checking the factoid *name*.
2456[21:38:39] <Sleaker> jhutchins_wk: yah I never really understood the draw of wanting to use docker containers in a production environment for full-stack services.
2457[21:38:47] <russw> my experience (and many others') to date has been that it is fantastic for production deployments of a variety of services
2458[21:38:50] <Sleaker> seems needlessly complex.
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2460[21:39:35] *** Joins: CyberManifest (~CyberMani@replaced-ip)
2461[21:39:37] <jhutchins_wk> When you have to deal with networking and security it becomes pretty obvious that full VM capability beates "nimble deployment".
2462[21:39:42] <russw> hmm... interetsing. I find it makes things SO MUCH simpler. Not that I'm a docker pusher, I just need my life/work to be simpler and it does a fantastic job of that. FOR full stack apps.
2463[21:40:00] <jelly> russw: I thought it's meant for ephemeral, easily nukable and recreatable containers, with a single process in them
2464[21:40:09] <jhutchins_wk> It does sound like it's a fantastic development tool.
2465[21:40:11] *** Quits: Penguin_ (~xwQ5kwYl6@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2466[21:40:26] <russw> jelly: I know lots of guys who do that for their dev environments
2467[21:40:49] * jelly hopes the guys have backups.
2468[21:41:13] <russw> My own "full stack" (hate that phrase) work I do entirely as KVM VMs, but that is separate(ish) from sysadmin stuff I do where I just want things to work.,
2469[21:41:41] <russw> the docker containers are only for the deployment stack
2470[21:41:46] <russw> for testing
2471[21:42:09] *** Joins: Penguin_ (~xwQ5kwYl6@replaced-ip)
2472[21:43:05] <russw> anyway, I can definitely say that after I switched to docker containers to run Jira and Confluence, administrating them became a breeze, vs an irritation
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2480[21:46:45] <asta> hi guys
2481[21:46:51] <asta> help there?
2482[21:46:53] <asta> replaced-url
2483[21:47:05] <asta> creplaced-url
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2487[21:47:40] <asta> Lenovo L440
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2495[21:51:10] <jelly> asta: is firmware-iwlwifi package installed? If not, connect to internet over a wire, enable non-free sources, install it and reboot
2496[21:51:17] <jelly> !non-free sources
2497[21:51:17] <dpkg> Edit /etc/apt/sources.list, ensure that the two main Debian mirror lines end with "main contrib non-free" rather than just "main", then «apt-get update». But bear in mind that you'll be installing <non-free> software. These may have onerous terms; check the licenses. See also <sources.list>.
2498[21:53:11] <jhutchins_wk> asta: Summary of the problem?
2499[21:53:23] <asta> replaced-url
2500[21:53:42] <asta> jhutchins_wk: can't conect wifi... i can see ssid's
2501[21:53:55] <jhutchins_wk> K, thanks for that.
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2504[21:54:39] <borsin> I've tried to reinstall the config file, but it isn't restoring the config files deleted. 'aptitude install -o Dpkg::Options::=--force-confmiss grub-common'.
2505[21:54:56] <jhutchins_wk> asta: Did you install the firmware as suggested?
2506[21:55:08] <asta> yes...see paste bro
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2508[21:55:16] *** Quits: obsvw (obsview@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2509[21:55:43] <jhutchins_wk> Ah, there it is.
2510[21:55:55] *** Quits: orbiter (~orbiter@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2511[21:56:20] *** Quits: Zppix (uid182351@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2512[21:56:34] <jhutchins_wk> ,pciid 8086:5260
2513[21:56:35] <judd> [8086:5260] is 'Unknown device' from 'Intel Corporation' with kernel modules 'snd-hda-intel', 'ata-generic' in stretch. See also replaced-url
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2516[21:57:53] <asta> brb
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2525[22:00:13] <jelly> asta: which version is installed right now? dpkg -l | grep iwlwifi
2526[22:00:29] <g0zzy> I have a Mate desktop here. When i connect via vnc the screen blanks periodically. Then i have to reawaken with server box by activity on the client. The odd thing is that this continues even when the client is disconnected. Why would that be?
2527[22:00:48] <indomitable> iwlwifi is such a terrible tool
2528[22:00:51] <g0zzy> s/with server box/the server box
2529[22:00:59] <jelly> there's a tool?
2530[22:01:18] *** Quits: benages (~benages@replaced-ip) (Quit: benages)
2531[22:01:28] <russw> I'm going through all the steps in the release guide (thx again, greycat). There are a few references to having 'stable' in sources.list instead of a specific release like 'jessie'
2532[22:01:47] <russw> Does anybody do this? That seems like you'd get a mass upgrade when you (might) least expect it
2533[22:01:57] <jelly> russw: if those references say "don't do this" then okay
2534[22:02:09] <greycat> russw: that's exactly it. That's why you don't use "stable".
2535[22:02:18] <indomitable> but stable is stable :(
2536[22:02:19] <russw> ok. thanks.
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2538[22:02:34] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o eir
2539[22:02:35] *** eir sets mode: -qo *!~nojake@gateway/* eir
2540[22:02:51] <jelly> Debian used to put "stable" there, it was a bug and it got fixed around Debian 6
2541[22:03:10] <Sleaker> yah I don't think I've ever put 'stable' in any of my apt lists.
2542[22:03:14] <Sleaker> seems dangerous.
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2544[22:03:57] <jelly> and we had lots of surprised users here with half-upgraded broken systems coming in here until around Debian 8
2545[22:04:18] <subcool> ok.. so- i know i setup my free space aside with set aside for lvm - but with blkid and df -h i cant find the ... space
2546[22:04:36] <greycat> Did you create a partition in said "free space"?
2547[22:04:41] <jelly> subcool: are you still in the installer?
2548[22:04:49] <subcool> jelly
2549[22:04:52] <subcool> jelly no
2550[22:04:57] <Sleaker> fdisk -l will show partitions.
2551[22:05:20] <jmcnaught> subcool: you probably want to use LVM tools like pvs, vgs, lvs
2552[22:05:31] <subcool> Sleaker, ty. i see it now
2553[22:05:32] <Sleaker> might help
2554[22:05:35] <greycat> The space you intend to use for LVM needs to be a partition, unless you are going to use an *entire* (non-bootable) disk.
2555[22:05:42] <subcool> jmcnaught, i wasnt sure if itd work since i havent setup lvm yet
2556[22:06:05] <subcool> greycat, /dev/sda3 45594624 488396799 442802176 211.1G 8e Linux LVM
2557[22:06:15] <jelly> subcool: if you're preparing things manually, you'll want to create a partition, then pvcreate on it, then vgcreate on that, then create LVs inside that VG
2558[22:06:17] <subcool> Sleaker, Thanks!
2559[22:06:38] <Sleaker> subcool: you're welcome.
2560[22:06:47] <subcool> jelly, i think the guide has a wizard that does that... -
2561[22:06:56] <Sleaker> it does.
2562[22:07:06] <jelly> subcool: "lsblk" is nice to see the current state on what's on top of what
2563[22:07:08] <Sleaker> I believ it's 'guided partition creation'
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2567[22:07:38] <subcool> Sleaker, on no- i mean for the Xen thing.
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2570[22:07:41] <Sleaker> can't remember what all wizards are in there I don't install systems via the wizard very often
2571[22:07:44] <Sleaker> ahhhh ok
2572[22:07:48] <Sleaker> I don't use xen.
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2576[22:08:58] <greycat> Even the guide he claimed was confusing was really simple and straightforward. "Create 4 partitions, like this. The last one is for LVM."
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2581[22:10:48] <subcool> greycat, yea, but- one i had to add for EFI - . 2) it doesnt say how to set it aside. i had no idea it was in the installed. And it isnt always there. When i tried to install this on my laptop, i had an option for EFI- on the desktop im using now. it doesnt. I have to mark it is fat32.
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2583[22:12:01] <greycat> I still don't know why you wanted to go UEFI. If you don't need it, it's just pointless additional complexity.
2584[22:12:06] <subcool> Then you can add in the fact i started putting things as primary, because - its been years since ihave to worry about primary or logical, and boot, root, and swap might need to be primary
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2586[22:12:21] <subcool> greycat, the laptop required it- i couldnt boot until it was setup
2587[22:12:24] <greycat> GPT does not have "primary" and "logical", and if you're doing UEFI, then you're doing GPT.
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2589[22:12:52] <subcool> greycat, i followed the guided install, and the xen guide. -
2590[22:13:15] <subcool> it asked about grub- i said OK, its asked about forced UEFI- i said OK
2591[22:13:25] <subcool> (depending on which install i was runing) -
2592[22:13:58] <russw> Ok. I've read the jessie->stretch upgrade, done all the prep and cleanup, and am about to change my sources.list[.d] stuff from jessie to stretch... any sanity checking and/or final words of wisdom would be awesome before I pull the trigger. :)
2593[22:14:06] <russw> Offensive packages are here:
2594[22:14:07] <russw> replaced-url
2595[22:14:07] <subcool> This is a project i put down 3 months ago, because when i finally made progress, its bricked my laptop- like it just did 2 hours ago. And i started on the desktop.
2596[22:14:26] <russw> All of which I think I can handle directly cia their sources.list entries, or sources.list.d files
2597[22:14:32] <russw> s/cia/via/
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2600[22:15:10] <russw> maybe not the openjdk... but I'm willing to let that go and see if it breaks
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2602[22:15:50] <russw> Any last words/prayers?
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2606[22:17:46] <annadane> god speed?
2607[22:18:19] <russw> annadane: good enough! Thanks! Going for it...
2608[22:19:03] <annadane> we'll all be going through the fun (hopefully) transition to buster in about 3 months
2609[22:19:16] <greycat> who's "we"? just out of curiosity.
2610[22:19:24] <annadane> those of us who are impatient
2611[22:19:54] <greycat> I've upgraded 2 desktop boxes, one with 0 issues, one with 2 big issues.
2612[22:20:30] <greycat> documented one here replaced-url
2613[22:20:54] <greycat> you'd think they would put in a -no-dbus option that does nothing for compatibility, but nooooo
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2615[22:22:33] <russw> actually, after changing jessie to stretch in sources.list I saw these lines:
2616[22:22:36] <russw> # stretch-updates, previously known as 'volatile'
2617[22:22:36] <russw> deb replaced-url
2618[22:22:49] <russw> can those be ditched?
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2621[22:23:09] <greycat> That's like "gimme the next point release's packages a bit early". Optional.
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2624[22:23:22] <greycat> !stretch-updates
2625[22:23:22] <dpkg> stretch-updates is, like, a suite providing updates to some packages (from <proposed-updates>) prior to a <point release>. All packages from stretch-updates will be included in point releases. replaced-url
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2628[22:24:17] <russw> ok... so slightly more leading edge. But now I'm curious... how does apt manage priority of what .deb to use there?
2629[22:24:43] <greycat> in the absence of special configs (like *-backports uses), it just takes the highest version number
2630[22:24:54] <russw> thx
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2632[22:25:21] <russw> and stretch-updates is official? i.e. not contributing to a nasty debian system?
2633[22:25:33] <annadane> it's official
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2640[22:29:10] <somiaj> russw: its offical in the sense debian matainers are making the packages and provding them over debian mirrors. They are not officall stable in the sense that there is any security support for them by debian-security. Any bugs/security holes found in backports packages may only be fixed after the matainer uploads a newer version (a lot of which depends on the package, matainer, etc)
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2642[22:29:31] <greycat> he's asking about -updates not -backports
2643[22:29:42] <somiaj> arg I got cross eyed, and thought it was still about -backports...:/
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2647[22:32:28] <russw> :)
2648[22:32:38] <jelly> I wonder if there's a better explanation for those
2649[22:32:40] <jelly> !stable-updates
2650[22:32:41] <dpkg> [stretch-updates] a suite providing updates to some packages (from <proposed-updates>) prior to a <point release>. All packages from stretch-updates will be included in point releases. replaced-url
2651[22:33:51] <martin-_-_> I used export CPPFLAGS=-I/usr/local/ssl/include/ for configure & make. but now the build fials with undefined reference to dlopen which is located in /usr/lib/libdl.so
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2655[22:34:35] <martin-_-_> how can I tell the compiler to looks also for dlopen in /usr/lib ?
2656[22:35:13] <greycat> It already does.
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2660[22:37:24] <martin-_-_> Then I don't understand why it fails with /usr/local/ssl/lib//libcrypto.a(dso_dlfcn.o)(.text+0x30): In function `dlfcn_load': undefined reference to `dlopen'
2661[22:39:54] <russw> Uh oh... a grub complaint I'm not sure how to check...
2662[22:39:58] <russw> replaced-url
2663[22:40:05] <russw> anyone know how to check where it's at?
2664[22:40:21] <greycat> if you're building openssh on stretch, all I can tell you is that it worked for me with virtually no changes, after I installed libssl1.0-dev instead of libssl-dev
2665[22:40:51] <martin-_-_> hm ok ill try thanks
2666[22:40:52] <greycat> I don't know why you have a /usr/local/ssl/lib/ or why it's being used.
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2671[22:43:55] <annadane> i think i was trying to build python 3.7 earlier and it threw me an error of a too old openssl version, i need to look into that
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2675[22:49:02] <jelly> martin-_-_: you're confusing compile-time linking with runtime, that message suggests you're missing the -dev package that brings compile-time linking support for dlopen(), or your build process is missing some link options. man 3 dlopen says... > Link with -ldl.
2676[22:49:38] <greycat> compiling your own libssl is daunting
2677[22:49:59] <jelly> so here's a question
2678[22:50:13] <jelly> martin-_-_: WHY are you building openssl?
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2681[22:52:00] <jelly> judd: file lib/*/libdl.a
2682[22:52:05] <judd> Search for lib/*/libdl.a in stretch/amd64: libc6-dev: usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libdl.a; musl-dev: usr/lib/x86_64-linux-musl/libdl.a
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2687[22:53:04] <jelly> it's unlikely libc6-dev is not installed
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2689[22:53:40] <greycat> He claimed to have a /usr/lib/libdl.so previously. Which is suspicious in and of itself, since that is not where Debian keeps it.
2690[22:54:08] <jelly> well it used to be there, in debian 6...
2691[22:54:18] <greycat> yeah, before the multiarch changes
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2693[22:55:51] <jelly> maybe they'll come back
2694[22:56:17] <greycat> Oh, peer got him. That naughty peer.
2695[22:56:41] <jelly> !peer
2696[22:56:41] <dpkg> hmm... peer is the most elusive script kiddie this side of Jupiter
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2699[22:57:29] <jelly> last name gynt, I believe
2700[22:57:44] <mason> Sweet.
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2751[23:29:12] <sbingner> anybody happen to know how I submit an apt patch? I have a guest account on salsa.debian.org but that doesn't let me make a merge request
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2755[23:30:05] <russw> thx for the help., all. My jessie->stretch upgrade seems to have gone ok.
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2758[23:30:32] <sbingner> aah I think I found it
2759[23:31:17] <sbingner> argh reportbug sigh
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2774[23:39:39] <digital_> hello guys
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2787[23:50:04] *** Joins: Krennic (~Krennic@replaced-ip)
2788[23:50:36] *** Joins: BCMM (~BCMM@replaced-ip)
2789[23:51:44] *** Parts: nulleip (~luiz@replaced-ip) ()
2790[23:52:14] *** Quits: Lxrowe (~Lxrowe@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2791[23:52:27] *** Quits: telmich (~deadghost@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2792[23:54:24] *** Joins: telmich (~deadghost@replaced-ip)
2793[23:55:19] *** Joins: michaelni (~michael@replaced-ip)
2794[23:55:48] *** Quits: \\Mr_C\\ (mrc@replaced-ip) (Quit: (Read error: Connection reset by beer))
2795[23:56:55] *** Quits: rhizome_ (~rhizome@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2796[23:57:17] *** Quits: ekiro (~ekiro@replaced-ip) (Quit: ekiro)
2797[23:57:43] *** Quits: Krennic (~Krennic@replaced-ip) (Quit: Lost terminal)
2798[23:58:12] *** Quits: karakedi (~eAC53C340@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2799[23:59:08] *** Quits: Prints (~333@replaced-ip) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep...)
2800[23:59:31] *** Quits: g0zzy (~goose@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving.)
2801[23:59:37] *** Joins: loeken (59f7fc04@replaced-ip)
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