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• 30[00:40:13] <kristijonas> is it not allowed to paste (paste.debian.net) the email headers which are clearly spam or is it just me? :D wanted to discuss those on ##email. but paste.debian.net asks me not to spam :/
• 31[00:40:29] *** Joins: cstls (~guy@replaced-ip)
• 32[00:40:49] <sney> paste.debian.net is extra touchy about that one. try a different pastebin site
• 33[00:40:56] <sney> if you're pasting from terminal, termbin is nice:
• 34[00:40:58] <sney> !termbin
• 35[00:40:58] <dpkg> you can paste to termbin.com from terminal via: cat /path/to/file | nc termbin.com 9999
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• 42[00:44:56] <kristijonas> sney, thanks! :)
• 43[00:45:05] <sney> np
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• 70[01:07:25] <H-var> Hi everyone!
• 71[01:07:45] *** Quits: XsiSec (~xsisec@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 72[01:07:51] <H-var> Just installed Debian on 970 evo m.2 and the thing won't run
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• 75[01:09:22] <H-var> 0.938359 pcieport 0000:00:1c.4: AER: PCIe bus error: Severity=Collected, your=physical Later, (receiver ID)
• 76[01:10:57] <H-var> 0.938466 PCIE PORT 0000:00:1C.4: AER: device 8086:a294 error status/mask=00000001/00002000
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• 78[01:11:52] <H-var> 0.938572 pcieport 0000:00:1c.4: AER 0 RxErr
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• 80[01:13:36] <H-var> Can you please fix this this on your playing system and make it possible for your playing system to work on modern computers?
• 81[01:13:49] <H-var> system
• 82[01:14:02] <H-var> Operating* system
• 83[01:14:18] *** Quits: cstls (~guy@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 84[01:15:17] <jhutchins> H-var: What isn't working?
• 85[01:15:41] <H-var> Those are the only 3 errors I'm seeing
• 86[01:15:51] <H-var> There is nothing else on the screen right after installation
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• 88[01:15:53] <jhutchins> H-var: Yes, but what isn't working?
• 89[01:16:03] <H-var> Debian is not working
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• 91[01:16:42] <jhutchins> H-var: What did you try to do? How did you try to do it? What did you expect to happen? What happened instead?
• 92[01:17:03] <jhutchins> H-var: Error messages are often informational, not failures.
• 93[01:17:21] <H-var> Just default installation onto the 970 evo drive Debian default dvd 10.6.0 dev
• 94[01:17:41] <H-var> Just default
• 95[01:17:57] <ryouma> does the drive work
• 96[01:18:07] <H-var> I expect that I install the operating system and then it works
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• 98[01:18:55] <jhutchins> H-var: I have 1500 servers that say it works just fine, so unless you can tell us something other than "there are errors" we can't help you.
• 99[01:19:01] <H-var> Yeah, I tried playing around with q4os which is Debian based and it installed and booted super mega well
• 100[01:19:10] <H-var> No issues just install and let's go
• 101[01:19:28] <H-var> And Debian original is not booting up
• 102[01:19:49] <jhutchins> What is the end condition of the boot process?
• 103[01:19:53] <ryouma> it is stopping?
• 104[01:20:21] <H-var> Yeah, those are three informational messages that I'm seeing and it stopped there
• 105[01:20:44] <ryouma> i should point out that there is async in the boot messages sometimes. i have gotten confused by a pass phrase prompt that was completely obscured by subsequent messages!
• 106[01:20:51] <H-var> Nothing else happens. I can't do anything, just reboot
• 107[01:21:06] <jhutchins> Ah, there we are, useful information at last.
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• 109[01:22:05] <jhutchins> H-var: Have you rebooted from there more than once?
• 110[01:22:33] <H-var> Yes, of course - I tried rebooting like 2 other times, but it always stops there.
• 111[01:22:36] <ryouma> just a long shot but did you try pressing return?
• 112[01:22:53] <jhutchins> H-var: Also Esc and Ctrl-C
• 113[01:22:57] <H-var> I also have windows 10 UEFI on that drive
• 114[01:23:26] <jhutchins> H-var: Secure Boot and Fast Start (whatever it's called) disabled?
• 115[01:23:48] <H-var> Ctrl c - no reaction esc too
• 116[01:24:03] <jhutchins> Do you have a live image or rescue option on the installer?
• 117[01:24:22] <H-var> Mary me check the secure boot and fast boot
• 118[01:24:29] <H-var> Let*
• 119[01:25:28] <H-var> Secure boot is set to other os (other option is UEFI)
• 120[01:25:40] <H-var> Fast boot was enabled. I'll change to disabled
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• 122[01:26:52] <H-var> It didn't help. The informational messages are still the same
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• 126[01:30:02] <H-var> What else can I try to do? It's just default installation from the dev dvd 10.6.0 release. Grub installed onto the main drive, encrypted LVM, 64gb sd card connected via USB 3.0, 60gb / partition, 4gb swap
• 127[01:30:34] *** Quits: S3xyL1nux (~broddie@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
• 128[01:30:59] <H-var> I installed the latest q4os exactly the same way, 1:1, and it worked just fine.
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• 130[01:31:59] <H-var> There is some essential hardware support missing in the default Debian.
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• 136[01:35:41] <jmcnaught> H-var: I have Debian 10 (buster) installed on a Samsung 970 Evo Plus m.2 NVMe, it is working fine here and I do not get these errors.
• 137[01:35:48] <H-var> So I have a main drive, 2tb m.2 evo 970, and an sd card 64gb connected via the usb 3.0 port. The Debian was installed onto the sd card from another sd card connected to yet another usb port, and then I installed grub onto the main m.2 drive where the windows 10 is
• 138[01:35:55] *** Quits: teksimian (~teksimian@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 139[01:36:03] <jhutchins> H-var: Here's the thing: the installer ran. That means Debian Linux ran on your hardware. It seems likely that something like firmwre is not there.
• 140[01:36:55] <jhutchins> H-var: If you can boot to an external iso and look at the logs you might be able to find what's breaking.
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• 142[01:37:23] <H-var> Please note that the Debian was installed onto the sd card, not onto the m.2 drive. The grub was installed onto the latter
• 143[01:37:56] <H-var> Where do I find the logs?
• 144[01:38:20] <jhutchins> /var/log, dmesg,
• 145[01:38:22] <H-var> Okay, I'll try to find the logs for you
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• 147[01:38:59] <jhutchins> H-var: Also, you could try booting to multiuser.targe - video issues are one of the most common failures.
• 148[01:39:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1144
• 149[01:39:09] <jhutchins> multiuser.target
• 150[01:39:46] <H-var> I also have tails here on another sd card. I'm gonna try to mount the Debian drive
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• 157[01:42:43] <H-var> I can't decrypt the drive with the passkey that I used for encryption. It was 123456 but it says wrong password.
• 158[01:42:46] <H-var> smh
• 159[01:43:34] <H-var> Il just try to reinstall with ext4 filesystem instead of encrypted LVM let's see if it'll help
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• 163[01:49:25] <H-var> The operating system should not fail like this right from the box. You just install it, and it should just work.
• 164[01:50:14] <H-var> You should not go to logs, and look, and type some crazy long commands just to make things work. It's just a sign of poor design
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• 175[02:02:58] <H-var> I don't know man, I'll just try to install maybe the official release instead of the dev release, and then bullseye, if the official doesn't pull through.
• 176[02:03:25] *** Quits: tsal (~tsal@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 177[02:03:34] <jmcnaught> What is the dev release? Which ISO are you using?
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• 180[02:04:40] <H-var> I downloaded it from the direct link on debian.org, two days ago 10.6.0
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• 183[02:06:35] <jmcnaught> debian-10.6.0-amd64-netinst.iso?
• 184[02:06:43] <H-var> dvd
• 185[02:06:56] <H-var> 3.8gB
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• 189[02:07:51] <ryouma> pointless point: it would be great if error messages at the lowest levels were always understandable and in context and informative and not async and possible to make them not emit if they are harmless and so on. but right now we are stuck with stuff that's like "does this matter?"
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• 191[02:08:52] <H-var> I think, if I install it on the regular hard drive it will then work. I'm certain that there some drivers missing in the installation program because I'm trying to install onto the sd card connected via a usb port
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• 196[02:10:20] <H-var> Because installing other Debian based d'Istria on sd card works for me.
• 197[02:10:30] <H-var> distros
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• 199[02:12:15] <H-var> You could do some testings, guys, and add those drivers into your installation isos for the people so that they would be able to perform installation on sd cards attached via USB
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• 201[02:12:47] <joepublic> out of curiosity, is this the debian live that you are installing from?
• 202[02:13:16] <H-var> No, I'm installing directly right away
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• 204[02:15:36] <jmcnaught> H-var: I do not think that the debian-installer would neglect to install some drivers just because you installed to an SD card. Drivers are part of the kernel image package.
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• 206[02:17:12] <jmcnaught> H-var: if you have multiple operating systems installed (Windows and Linux) some on the SSD, others on SD card but with GRUB on the SSD… well there is a lot that could go wrong there.
• 207[02:17:25] *** Quits: Garb0_ (~Garb0@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 208[02:17:27] <H-var> Well, what does q4os then have that Debian doesn't? Why the first one installs and works from sd card, and the second falls?
• 209[02:18:16] <H-var> With the same exact installation parameters
• 210[02:18:55] *** Quits: mrpop (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 211[02:19:12] <jmcnaught> H-var: what happens when you boot Debian, do you get a blank screen? Perhaps q4os includes non-free firmware required for the graphics card, which Debian does not include?
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• 215[02:19:59] <H-var> I have aids gtx 1080
• 216[02:20:05] <H-var> Asus*
• 217[02:20:16] <H-var> Sorry autocorrect
• 218[02:22:00] <H-var> Is it supported?
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• 220[02:23:24] <jmcnaught> H-var: probably, but I do not know if it requires a firmware. To really find the problem I would look at Debian's /var/log/syslog either from a live session or another Linux if one is already installed.
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• 222[02:25:07] <H-var> Ok, I'll open the /var/log/syslog after this regular ext4 installation ends. It takes a while for one installation to end. For me, it takes around 30 minutes
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• 224[02:28:21] <H-var> Yeah, this sucks so much that companies don't make good open sourced drivers for Linux based operating systems
• 225[02:28:23] *** Joins: gry (~test@replaced-ip)
• 226[02:28:51] <jmcnaught> Which drivers do you mean?
• 227[02:28:55] <H-var> And then enthusiasts have to make the drivers on their own, and it's just all falling apart for the regular people
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• 240[02:33:28] <H-var> Is there some special button combination that I can use to prevent the xorg and the graphical interface from starting up, and just to be able to login into the Debian's terminal?
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• 242[02:33:37] <H-var> During the boot
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• 246[02:36:39] <H-var> Or maybe there is a way to tell the installation program to install also the proprietary nvidia drivers during the Debian installation?
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• 248[02:37:19] <jmcnaught> H-var: on the GRUB prompt you can hit 'e' to edit, then add to the kernel command line. Adding "systemd.unit=rescue.target" would boot a minimal system, or you could try "systemd.unit=multi-user.target" to get a normal non-graphical boot.
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• 252[02:38:12] <H-var> Thank you, jmcnaught
• 253[02:41:28] <H-var> If that works then it's just proprietary nvidia drivers. I wish they wouldn't make them proprietary. They are really only harming themselves with this
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• 257[02:47:10] <H-var> Does anyone know if the open source drivers included with Debian support gtx 1080?
• 258[02:50:04] <jmcnaught> H-var: replaced-url
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• 261[02:52:17] <H-var> Yeah, my chip is gp102 or gp104 so it's supposed to be supported
• 262[02:52:30] <H-var> Thank you jmcnaught
• 263[02:53:32] <jmcnaught> You're welcome H-var. Were you able to boot into text mode on Debian?
• 264[02:53:45] <H-var> It's still installing lol
• 265[02:54:31] <jmcnaught> Is this a desktop or a laptop?
• 266[02:55:18] <H-var> It's a desktop gp102
• 267[02:56:14] <jmcnaught> Instead of multi-booting on SD cards have you considered using virtual machines to run multiple operating systems?
• 268[02:56:35] <H-var> Btw I noticed this error/information showing up briefly during the boot off the debian installation program too
• 269[02:57:02] <H-var> but then the graphical installation starts just fine
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• 272[02:58:38] <H-var> I don't wanna virtual machines. I wanna normal for actual home use like watching movies, YouTube and stuff
• 273[02:59:01] <H-var> On VM watching 4k movies will be difficult lol
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• 275[02:59:49] <jmcnaught> If you have two GPUs you can assign one to a VM. I have this set up on Debian 10, using a second monitor for virtual machines.
• 276[02:59:54] <H-var> I want to allocate full actual machine for my os
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• 279[03:01:29] <H-var> Actually I do have the internal crappy Intel card which I could give to windows, but the problem is that I want to distance myself from windows as far as possible because I don't like it
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• 281[03:02:27] <H-var> You cannot even uninstall the spyware from it permanently anymore, if you want to get updates.
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• 283[03:03:10] <H-var> They'll just reinstall everything back as soon as you update. Fk them man. I have bill gates
• 284[03:03:19] <H-var> hate*
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• 287[03:04:05] <H-var> Walking around in africa with his stupid fake vaccines, all smiling and jolly
• 288[03:04:25] <jmcnaught> Okay we should keep it to tech support.
• 289[03:04:27] <ryouma> is sd fast or something? compered to flash?
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• 295[03:05:35] <H-var> I tested it, and it was showing 110/20 read/write results
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• 297[03:06:40] <H-var> Okay it's finally finished installing, let's see the logs
• 298[03:08:30] <H-var> Ok, now it's different - now it's just simply rapidly blinking cursor, no errors, just empty screen
• 299[03:08:53] <H-var> I'll try loading without xorg
• 300[03:09:24] *** Quits: sidmo_ (~ident@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 301[03:09:35] <jmcnaught> By booting with systemd.unit=multi-user.target on the kernel command line?
• 302[03:12:06] <H-var> I just add systemd.unit=multiuser.targer at the bottom of the grub config file?
• 303[03:12:19] <H-var> Yes jmc
• 304[03:12:55] <jmcnaught> H-var: at the end of the line that starts with the word 'linux'. Usually it has the word quiet at the end, which you should remove.
• 305[03:13:34] <H-var> Yeah, that's where it should go indeed. Thanks, okay
• 306[03:14:33] <H-var> And then I'll press ctrl+x
• 307[03:14:46] <jmcnaught> yes
• 308[03:14:57] <H-var> Huh, that didn't help
• 309[03:15:09] <H-var> Il try the minimal
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• 311[03:16:16] <H-var> Okay the minimal landed me into that error with PCIe bus
• 312[03:17:02] <H-var> So I can't even get into the terminal huh
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• 314[03:17:53] <H-var> Ok it's syslog time
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• 319[03:23:29] <H-var> It says I don't have permission to open syslog
• 320[03:25:54] <jmcnaught> Are you booted into another Linux and accessing Debian's syslog? You will still need to be root or in in gid 4 (adm) to open that file.
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• 324[03:32:13] <H-var> Wow, the log is kinda long
• 325[03:32:31] <ryouma> what does blinking underscore at top left with nothing else mean?
• 326[03:33:48] <H-var> Is it safe to upload the syslog and share?
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• 328[03:34:41] <jmcnaught> From a freshly installed OS it should be.
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• 330[03:34:48] <H-var> ryouma it's just what it is - I just see that, and nothing else
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• 338[03:48:51] <H-var> There are no errors there. It's just a long list of things being loaded into the system, and the very last line reads:
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• 341[03:49:39] <H-var> Debian systemd[1] : Removed slice system-getty.slice.
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• 345[03:52:36] <H-var> Il just try to clear the syslog, reboot, and just sit and wait for like 10 minutes.
• 346[03:54:38] <H-var> I just wonder if actually maybe Debian is just loading super mega slowly for whatever reason
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• 366[04:11:15] <H-var> Well this is interesting
• 367[04:11:31] *** Quits: magic_ninja (~sparkie1@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 368[04:11:52] <H-var> I waited 12 minutes, and here are how the last lines look like:
• 369[04:12:40] <H-var> replaced-url
• 370[04:13:00] <H-var> replaced-url
• 371[04:13:26] <H-var> Look at the time stamps 😅
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• 379[04:17:45] <ryouma> h-var i was asking along with you what it signifies --- 18:32 <ryouma> what does blinking underscore at top left with nothing else mean?
• 380[04:18:08] <ryouma> i was amplifying on your question
• 381[04:21:43] <jmcnaught> H-var: I cannot view your paste. Could you please use replaced-url
• 382[04:21:55] *** Quits: Ceber (~cerberus@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 383[04:23:26] <jmcnaught> Probably one of my Firefox add-ons is blocking some javascript on hastebin but honestly why should a paste site require javascript in the first place?
• 384[04:26:29] <H-var> Because it is parsing the files and making them readable in many programming languages
• 385[04:27:04] <jmcnaught> !termbin
• 386[04:27:04] <dpkg> you can paste to termbin.com from terminal via: cat /path/to/file | nc termbin.com 9999
• 387[04:27:16] <jmcnaught> This one is good too.
• 388[04:28:51] <H-var> paste.debian.net/1165823
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• 391[04:31:33] <jmcnaught> H-var: that is only part of a log, and it does not seem to include any useful clues, unless there was a particular line that stood out to you?
• 392[04:32:01] <H-var> The only interesting thing that I see is that it's like it's loaded
• 393[04:32:27] <H-var> Like Linux is loaded, and even the cron is running
• 394[04:32:58] <H-var> But on my screen I only see a blinking cursor and a black blank screen
• 395[04:33:01] <jmcnaught> H-var: if you are in the directory that contains Debian's syslog you could "grep -i firmware syslog" to see if there are any messages about missing firmware files.
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• 398[04:34:39] <H-var> I don't know, I'll just try the latest official stable release I guess, and then the one that includes +non-free packages
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• 402[04:38:33] <jmcnaught> It is worth a try using the firmware-10.6.0-amd64-netinst.iso that includes non-free firmwares. If you are still having the same issue after using that to install and can post a complete syslog the channel may be able to figure it out.
• 403[04:39:46] <H-var> Can you help me to navigate to the firmware-10.6.0amd64-netinst.iso jmcnaught?
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• 405[04:39:58] <jmcnaught> replaced-url
• 406[04:40:24] <jmcnaught> FYI on most of the Debian ISO download pages in the text above the download links there is a paragraph about where to find the firmware ISOs.
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• 409[04:48:41] <H-var> Thank you, I'll try that one too. I suppose that one will definitely work.
• 410[04:49:53] <H-var> Honestly, this much hustle still worth it, but I just wish regular people would be given a chance to try Linux without running into this problem.
• 411[04:51:02] <H-var> Some kind of option in every iso possible, a possibility to choose, if they want the proprietary firmware and drivers, and a brief explanation
• 412[04:51:52] <jmcnaught> The installer does prompt about missing firmware and give you the chance to load them from external media, but it might only do that if it needs the firmware to operate the wireless network adapter.
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• 414[04:51:59] <H-var> Giving people a choice in every iso is better than giving people tons of different isos
• 415[04:52:04] <jmcnaught> I have never installed Debian on a computer with an Nvidia card.
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• 418[04:55:27] <jmcnaught> Dealing with missing firmware is also covered by the installation manual.
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• 421[04:57:55] <velix> `apt upgrade` wants to install PostgreSQL 13. How can I force it NOT to do so?
• 422[04:58:14] <velix> Maybe dselect?
• 423[04:58:50] <jmcnaught> Is this on sid?
• 424[04:59:28] <velix> jmcnaught: I'm using PostgreSQL's repository.
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• 426[04:59:41] <velix> It wants to update 12.x AND install 13 ...
• 427[05:00:42] <velix> ah, I think aptitude can help me here.
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• 432[05:03:41] <H-var> Goodnight, everyone. Thank you jmcnaught
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• 435[05:07:14] <velix> jmcnaught: pah... "hold" even works for NOT installed packages. That did it !
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• 437[05:08:53] <jmcnaught> velix: it might be worth asking in #postgresql if there is a way they recommend sticking on 12 using their repo.
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• 439[05:09:27] <velix> jmcnaught: Good idea. I even know the one, who creates them ;)
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• 441[05:09:36] <velix> jmcnaught: But... upgrading to 13 is worth it ;)
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• 777[12:07:38] <shtrb> should there be a per user dbus session service running in default installation ?
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• 797[12:10:04] <ratrace> shtrb: "default installation" depends on installation choices, eg. with or without desktop components, which are the ones that, yes, pull in dbus and cause user dbus session to be started. I'm not aware of exceptions to this (desktop + dbus dep + not starting dbus user session)
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• 799[12:10:54] <shtrb> ratrace, sorry , in case of a desktop installation. I noticed that most of my installation have dbus running as a system service and not a user one.
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• 801[12:11:17] <shtrb> *systemd system service and not system uder service
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• 803[12:13:15] <ratrace> shtrb: no /usr/bin/dbus-daemon --session ... run as your user in the ps tree?
• 804[12:13:48] <shtrb> that is correct
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• 807[12:14:58] <shtrb> oops , no , I have one like that
• 808[12:15:04] <shtrb> *wrong grep
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• 812[12:17:20] <shtrb> ratrace, sorry I was wrong, but I can't find anything for dbus under /etc/systemd/user
• 813[12:17:34] <ratrace> shtrb: I think it's socket activated
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• 815[12:18:08] <shtrb> ok thank you
• 816[12:18:10] <ratrace> shtrb: oh also, /lib/systemd/user/ the /etc/ is not for vendor defaults
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• 919[14:11:33] <Lope> I'm running buster with a backports kernel etc
• 920[14:11:54] <Lope> can I just change me sources to sid and then upgrade to sid?
• 921[14:12:00] <Lope> what's the codename for sid?
• 922[14:12:18] <Lope> (i've made a backup of the buster installation)
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• 924[14:13:05] <Lope> bullseye
• 925[14:13:17] <shtrb> Lope, code fror sid is sid, but you can upgrade full to it if you are brave enough
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• 927[14:13:45] <shtrb> Lope, bullseye is testing should be locked after COVID had been overcome
• 928[14:14:08] <Lope> shtrb, are you saying I can't use bullseye in my sources for the upgrade?
• 929[14:14:09] <dvs> Lope: but once you go to sid, there's no going back.
• 930[14:14:16] <ratrace> shtrb: what do you mean "locked after"
• 931[14:14:19] <Lope> dvs, that's why I made a backup ;)
• 932[14:14:28] <shtrb> ratrace, frozen , become stable
• 933[14:14:43] <ratrace> that can very well be never then
• 934[14:14:47] <Lope> shtrb, the name bullseye will stick though?
• 935[14:14:54] <shtrb> March 2021 it should freeze and become stable
• 936[14:14:59] <shtrb> Lope, yes
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• 938[14:15:23] <Lope> COVID is a process whereby we are all so afraid that 1.4% of us might die that 100% of us cease living entirely immediately with 100% guarantee.
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• 940[14:15:33] <shtrb> *pass a hard freeze and may become stable later
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• 942[14:16:04] <shtrb> everything will be ok, in just a few months. and we will have a bug free debian.
• 943[14:17:11] <Lope> shtrb, will bullseye sources override buster backports?
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• 945[14:17:35] <jelly> Lope, no, but newer versions of package do override older versions
• 946[14:18:03] <Lope> jelly, okay, so would the bullseye packages be newer than buster backports?
• 947[14:18:13] <jelly> yes, most of them
• 948[14:18:58] <jelly> dpkg, stable->testing
• 949[14:18:59] <dpkg> In /etc/apt/sources.list, change "buster" to "bullseye", remove lines like buster-backports, debian-multimedia <dmo>, and other 3rd party repos as they are known to cause issues then do: apt update && apt upgrade && apt full-upgrade. Note that testing is a <moving target> and may be buggy, and read the sid FAQ: replaced-url
• 950[14:19:11] <jelly> !debian-next
• 951[14:19:11] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also replaced-url
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• 953[14:19:16] <shtrb> Lope, no , that does not work like that. your backports should be named
• 954[14:19:40] <shtrb> Lope, and bullesye is still testing , expect stuff to break
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• 957[14:20:00] <Lope> okay, I didn't need to use sid in the sources.list, bullseye worked.
• 958[14:20:03] <jelly> Lope, stable-backports are always made from versions that are already in testing, then made to be just slightly lower versions
• 959[14:20:20] <Lope> jelly, okay, thanks!
• 960[14:20:45] <Lope> shtrb, all good. It's only for a hypervisor so I'm not using much of debian in this case.
• 961[14:20:54] <jelly> once you get either testing or unstable running, direct further questions to the -next channel, not here
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• 963[14:21:11] <shtrb> stable-backportss are the only ones that will bump when bullseye will become stable.
• 964[14:21:18] <Lope> jelly, okay, well it's 23% so I'll keep chatting here for another 73%
• 965[14:21:38] <jelly> Lope, how many machines do you have that 23% are testing :-)
• 966[14:22:00] <shtrb> Lope, do you use bluetooth ? because if you do expect some problems
• 967[14:22:17] <Lope> I don't understand your joke/question. I meant the apt upgrade progress.
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• 969[14:23:11] <Lope> shtrb, I don't use bluetooth. Only ethernet, usb and audio-out.
• 970[14:23:38] <shtrb> anyone using ofono + telepathy and can tell me how do I start the dialer ui please ? I can't find a icon to start the QML app .
• 971[14:24:52] <Lope> ratrace, jelly, shtrb: do you guys ever run stable and sid side by side, like in a different partition or whatever
• 972[14:25:16] <Lope> because I considered doing that, but I figured maintaining stable and sid is pointless.
• 973[14:25:30] <shtrb> Lope, I use that on different machines.
• 974[14:25:35] <Lope> I might as well just backup stable, then dive into sid because it'll most likely work.
• 975[14:25:48] <Lope> shtrb, what do you think of sid for a laptop?
• 976[14:25:56] <Lope> I don't use bluetooth at all ever.
• 977[14:26:12] <shtrb> it does not seem to be a good idea if you are going to share data between them , many versions are different and will not work (akonadi for example)
• 978[14:26:42] <Lope> I've never heard of akonadi?
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• 980[14:26:51] <Lope> I share data with ssh, sshfs and NFS.
• 981[14:26:52] <shtrb> Lope, it depends, I had laptops that worked fine with sid (non i915 ) and had ones that don't (with i915 for example)
• 982[14:27:15] <Lope> isn't basically everything intel i915?
• 983[14:27:32] <shtrb> Lope, akonadi is the backbone of the PIM infromation inside plasma, if you are using kmail/kontact then you are using akonadi
• 984[14:27:37] <ratrace> Lope: nope, I run only Stable Debian. for any other requirement, I run Gentoo
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• 987[14:28:02] <Lope> shtrb, oh, I don't use that stuff. I use thunderbird.
• 988[14:28:26] <shtrb> Lope , no , there are also other laptops which can even work with a dedicated nvidia cards
• 989[14:28:34] <Lope> shtrb, but at some point soon I'd like to start hosting some sort of DAV stuff or whatever for myself, so that I can use lineageos without google apps.
• 990[14:28:45] <Lope> (and sync contacts)
• 991[14:28:52] <Lope> (and calendar)
• 992[14:29:17] <shtrb> Lope, for hosting you do not need akonadi , I used for that nextcloud (please don't ban me from this channel for this), and ldap , both worked fine.
• 993[14:29:33] <Lope> I've got a laptop here, with buster, and I upgraded the kernel to 5.8 backport. seems perfect.
• 994[14:29:54] <Lope> it's got intel and old nvidia 500 series graphics.
• 995[14:30:19] <jelly> Lope, used to in the past, to time to track either testing or unstable last couple years
• 996[14:30:25] <jelly> s/to time/no time/
• 997[14:31:16] <Lope> is sid the latest and greatest, or medium stable stuff (slightly old)
• 998[14:31:24] <jelly> !sid faq
• 999[14:31:24] <dpkg> replaced-url
• 1000[14:31:30] <jelly> !sid
• 1001[14:31:30] <dpkg> from memory, sid is the codename for <unstable>, named after the kid in Toy Story that breaks toys. The great thing about running sid is that when it breaks, you get to keep ALL the pieces!!
• 1002[14:31:42] <jelly> !unstable
• 1003[14:31:43] <dpkg> Unstable is the status of a Debian release when packages can be added at any time, that can disrupt the integrity of the whole system! Ask me about <break>. If you have to ask whether you should use it or how, you shouldn't. replaced-url
• 1004[14:32:04] <jelly> it's the development branch.
• 1005[14:32:11] <n4dir> Lope: not sure how comfortable freedombox has become in the meantime ("at some point soon i'd like ...")
• 1006[14:32:47] <Lope> n4dir, I don't know much about hosting one's own contacts or calendar etc. I know nearly nothing about it.
• 1007[14:32:54] <shtrb> At least he didn't ask to upgrade to experimental
• 1008[14:33:31] <n4dir> go to the debian wiki and have a look. or apt-cache show freedom-maker. The page "leaving the cloud" is my favorite. (I am not in such, don't get me wrong)
• 1009[14:33:44] <Lope> my point is that there's a branch with stuff that's newer than sid.
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• 1011[14:33:51] <shtrb> Lope, it is very easy to host your own calendars and contacts. you can even setup a nice firewall rules to allow only them and build your own diy-cloud at home.
• 1012[14:33:56] <Lope> and sid is going to freeze in march, that's not that far off.
• 1013[14:33:59] <dvs> !sns
• 1014[14:33:59] <dpkg> Shiny New Shit Syndrome is a serious disorder, which usually breaks out into an epidemic every time something new is released. If you have SNS, ask me about <backports> and <ssb>; these are better options than upgrading to <testing> because it is a <moving target>.
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• 1016[14:34:12] <shtrb> Lope, sid will not freeze
• 1017[14:34:23] <shtrb> Bullseye will freeze
• 1018[14:34:28] <Lope> when I say sid I mean bullseye, yeah.
• 1019[14:35:04] <shtrb> but they are different , sid is unstable and bullseye is testing. sid will continue to get new stuff , and bullseye will sit in the fridge
• 1020[14:35:36] <n4dir> i think Sid freezes too, kinda later or such
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• 1022[14:36:00] <n4dir> at least become very "calm"
• 1023[14:36:22] <n4dir> sorry, misread.
• 1024[14:37:08] <dvs> n4dir: well, sid "freezes" because bullseye will freeze.
• 1025[14:37:44] <jelly> sid never freezes, but as testing is closely related to unstable, uploads of new versions are slowed down at a late point in the release cycle
• 1026[14:37:47] <jelly> !slushy
• 1027[14:37:48] <dpkg> When a <testing> release becomes frozen, <unstable> tends to partially freeze as well. This is because developers are reluctant to upload radically new software to unstable, in case the frozen software in testing needs minor updates and to fix release critical bugs which keep testing from becoming <stable>.
• 1028[14:37:48] <n4dir> that i don't get.
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• 1031[14:38:25] <n4dir> the fun time in sid is after the new stable gets released. Oh my.
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• 1040[14:43:26] <Lope> blah blah requested impossible situation
• 1041[14:43:36] <Lope> unmet deps: libc6-dev : Breaks: libgcc-8-dev (< 8.4.0-2~) but 8.3.0-6 is to be installed
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• 1046[14:45:26] <Lope> ratrace, shtrb, jelly, n4dir: I can't dist-upgrade
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• 1049[14:47:27] <Lope> I'm removing all the backports kernels, hopefully that'll fix it.
• 1050[14:47:47] <Lope> that seemed to be holding the kernel meta package back.
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• 1052[14:48:02] <Lope> ah, still can't dist-upgrade
• 1053[14:48:16] <Lope> libc6-dev : Breaks: libgcc-8-dev (< 8.4.0-2~) but 8.3.0-6 is to be installed
• 1054[14:49:45] <shtrb> you can drop gcc-8 and then upgrade again
• 1055[14:50:07] <Lope> okay will try
• 1056[14:50:08] <Lope> thanks
• 1057[14:50:16] <tomreyn> apt-forktracer can help you identify what's causing dependency problems
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• 1060[14:51:01] <jelly> Lope, temporarily getting rid of -dev packages might help things as well
• 1061[14:51:39] <Lope> shtrb, if I try `apt remove --purge libgcc-8-dev` it says "The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required"
• 1062[14:51:42] <ratrace> Lope: I'll just repeat the usual... sid's NOT for users that can't solve the issues you're having themselves.
• 1063[14:51:45] <Lope> listing a million packages including sshfs
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• 1065[14:51:49] <jelly> doing a stable->testing or stable->unstable might be broken at any point in time
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• 1067[14:52:19] <jelly> Lope, and again, use #debian-next for issues on testing (or going to testing, too)
• 1068[14:52:35] <Lope> I'm not on testing yet though
• 1069[14:52:37] <jelly> where we'll ask you to !bat
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• 1071[14:52:51] <jelly> you seem to be doing a full-upgrde to it as we speak?
• 1072[14:53:03] <Lope> yes, the upgrade is 99% done
• 1073[14:53:08] <Lope> I just can't do the dist upgrade.
• 1074[14:53:17] <Lope> do I need to remove the buster backports source?
• 1075[14:53:19] <jelly> so you're on testing. Good luck!
• 1076[14:53:35] <Lope> well, upgrade completed, but I can't dist-upgrade
• 1077[14:53:41] <jelly> you should have removed backports before doing it
• 1078[14:53:44] <Lope> surely that means I'm in no-mans-land?
• 1079[14:53:46] <n4dir> and if i hardly want to upgrade, i remove whatever i have to and re-install it after. With lots of hope that it will work ... broken dependencies might still be there.
• 1080[14:54:07] * jelly will not comment more in the main channel
• 1081[14:54:12] <n4dir> Or the less hope-dependant solution: try the dist-upgrade the next day
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• 1083[14:55:35] <jelly> sometimes unstable is less broken than testing.
• 1084[14:55:36] <Lope> #debian-next is invite only?
• 1085[14:55:40] <jelly> !debian-next
• 1086[14:55:40] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also replaced-url
• 1087[14:55:48] <Lope> ah, gotcha.
• 1088[14:55:51] <Lope> thanks
• 1089[14:56:00] <n4dir> good luck
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• 1091[14:56:42] <Lope> I'm going to try a reboot, hopefully it boots.
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• 1098[15:03:20] <shtrb> Lope, sorry I was out, do not do auto auto remove !
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• 1106[15:18:34] <Lope> it seems I broke my system, apparently stable+backports is not upgradable.
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• 1108[15:19:03] <Lope> So I'm reverting to my backup. While the system is running hehe. Hope it works.
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• 1115[15:24:21] <ratrace> Lope: That's not adviseable really, if you're talking about reverting the mounted, live rootfs
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• 1117[15:24:46] <Lope> ratrace, yeah, well I backed it up live
• 1118[15:24:54] <Lope> rsync -aAXS
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• 1122[15:25:24] <Lope> if it doesn't work I can redo the rsync from a live USB.
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• 1124[15:25:38] <Lope> gtg thanks for the chat
• 1125[15:25:48] <ratrace> Lope: doesn't matter. newer version processes might have newer ideas on how to treat their files
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• 1127[15:25:53] <ratrace> ...
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• 1276[18:43:17] <JarSs> I know this is Debian, have a generic ssh question to make a tunnel to VNC
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• 1278[18:43:33] <JarSs> just trying to get the syntex correct.
• 1279[18:43:48] <JarSs> have ssh host on a different port. say it's 3000.
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• 1281[18:44:30] <JarSs> trying to do something like ssh -L 5901:localhost:3000 user@remote.ip
• 1282[18:44:44] <JarSs> doesn't seem to work, trying to figure out if the syntax is ok?
• 1283[18:44:47] <oxek> JarSs: #openssh might know more
• 1284[18:44:55] <JarSs> hmm ok
• 1285[18:45:06] <JarSs> join #openssh
• 1286[18:45:09] <JarSs> oops. lol
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• 1298[18:58:46] <Franciman> hi
• 1299[18:58:55] <Franciman> ratrace, are you there?
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• 1306[19:04:16] <ratrace> maybe I'm here.... maybe it's Maybelline.
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• 1308[19:04:33] <Franciman> :P
• 1309[19:04:42] <Franciman> do you remember me and my networking problem?
• 1310[19:05:28] <Franciman> You asked if I could ping the gateway while I had my network issue
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• 1315[19:08:29] <s_> i really like this utility called tcping. is there anything in debian like it?
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• 1318[19:11:09] <Mcklaren> hi
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• 1323[19:17:05] <ratrace> Franciman: it rings a bell, yes
• 1324[19:17:48] <Franciman> well I can't ping the gateway
• 1325[19:17:55] <Franciman> but I can ping another ip address locally
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• 1327[19:20:20] <Franciman> I can't figure out what causes these problems
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• 1329[19:21:06] <ratrace> Franciman: sounds like an issue on the gateway. Can you pastebin the output of `ip r` ?
• 1330[19:21:48] <Franciman> replaced-url
• 1331[19:22:02] <Franciman> I can't ping 192.168.1.1 but I can ping 192.168.1.179
• 1332[19:23:09] <ratrace> Franciman: quite probably some issue on the gateway
• 1333[19:23:35] <Franciman> what do you suggest do diagnose the issue?
• 1334[19:23:35] <ratrace> Franciman: wait.... 192.168.1.179 that's YOUR IP, right?
• 1335[19:23:43] <Franciman> uhm
• 1336[19:23:44] <ratrace> not another host in the LAN but your host?
• 1337[19:23:55] <Franciman> possibly yeah
• 1338[19:24:09] <ratrace> so you can you ping another host in the LAN or not?
• 1339[19:24:31] <Franciman> let me see
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• 1344[19:27:35] <Franciman> well I can't ping 192.168.1.1
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• 1346[19:27:44] <Franciman> and yes, 192.168.1.179 is my ip address :P
• 1347[19:28:09] <ratrace> Franciman: and what about another host in the LAN..... that's not your gateway
• 1348[19:29:17] <Franciman> no
• 1349[19:29:19] <Franciman> I cna't
• 1350[19:29:21] <Franciman> cant*
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• 1352[19:30:39] <ratrace> Franciman: wellp, look through the journal for any messages implying wifi disconnects, for example: journalctl -b | grep "wpa"
• 1353[19:32:34] <Franciman> hmm ok
• 1354[19:32:40] <Franciman> I'll try to investigate in that sense
• 1355[19:32:41] <Franciman> thanks
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• 1438[20:59:17] <tga> greetings. so I took a 1TB external disk (NTFS) and happily dd'ed a 1GB install iso on top of it. any idea what (if anything) will recover the previous partitions and files?
• 1439[21:00:51] <petn-randall> tga: The partition and important bits of the filesystem are gone. You *might* be able to recover some files by tools like magicrescue. But probably your best bet is to recover from backups.
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• 1442[21:01:56] <tga> yeah there are a bunch of things I don't have backups of, otherwise I wouldn't bother
• 1443[21:02:12] <tga> it's frustrating because most of the files are still there, I only overwrote 1GB
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• 1445[21:03:52] <tga> I've been trying testdisk, but no luck so far
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• 1474[21:25:45] <jhutchins> tga: If you delete a file, the data is still there. If you write something over it, as you have done, it's replaced with the new data.
• 1475[21:26:12] <jhutchins> tga: Experience is proportional to data destroyed. You have gained experience.
• 1476[21:27:02] <alex11> does mesa ever get backported?
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• 1479[21:32:36] <tga> jhutchins: thanks, but I only wrote 1GB out of 1000, I am trying to recover data out of the remaining 999GB
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• 1481[21:34:51] <tga> magicrescue seems useful, but afaict it can only recover a few kinds of files
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• 1552[22:54:49] <ryouma> i guess this underscores the usefulness of gpt. and filesystems that keep their metadata and fs data not only at the early part (if any exist).
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• 1554[22:55:37] <ryouma> doesn't ntfs have its own rescue stuff in the non-free world?
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• 1556[22:59:03] <s_> is there a utility like tcping for debian?
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• 1558[22:59:25] <s_> it does a ping-like thing except over tcp/ip
• 1559[22:59:38] <s_> nmap seems like too heavy of a tool, and telnet seems archaic
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• 1561[23:02:15] <ryouma> what about mtr?
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• 1563[23:03:41] <ryouma> magicrescue uses magic numbers so it could perhaps be extended by config files not code? just guessing.
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• 1567[23:04:45] <s_> hmm... 'nc -z -v'
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• 1571[23:06:46] <ryouma> what allowed you to figure THAT out? the man page is so terse i can't figure out what -z even does.
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• 1580[23:16:50] <ectospasm> nc -v -z -w 0.1 ${host} ${port}
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• 1582[23:17:03] <ectospasm> I forget what -z does off the top of my head
• 1583[23:17:49] <ectospasm> I used that in a for loop to TCP syn connect scan against my customer's new SFTP server.
• 1584[23:18:14] <ectospasm> Nothing was open, so their firewall is probably blocking my connection attempts.
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• 1586[23:20:46] <petn-randall> ectospasm: You'd be able to see that with `mtr`.
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• 1588[23:21:56] <ectospasm> petn-randall: Not sure if I have mtn in the RHEL7 host I manage. It doesn't have a proper Internet connection (it's on a restricted network), so I can't just `yum install` anything.
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