• 0[00:00:34] <roycroft> funny you mention mormons
• 1[00:00:42] <Randolf> WordPerfect got improved very well under Novell, but after Corel bought it they ruined it. Corel wasn't just a nail in the coffin for WordPerfect, it was the whole coffin.
• 2[00:01:09] <roycroft> because i was about to say that the sco model of acquiring failing companies and pillaging their assets for a quick profit is the mitt romney model
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• 4[00:01:33] <Randolf> "Why don't poor people just buy more money?" -- Mitt Romney
• 5[00:01:40] <roycroft> and i'm not being political here
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• 7[00:01:48] <Randolf> I am (now).
• 8[00:01:51] * Randolf laughs
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• 10[00:01:55] <roycroft> i'm taking about mitt romney the businessman, not mitt romoney the politician
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• 12[00:02:13] <Randolf> Yeah, he's done quite well for himself in business.
• 13[00:02:39] <Randolf> I'm just so happy that there are open source alternatives that basically have lives of their own.
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• 15[00:03:18] <Randolf> I see the free-open-source-software movements as a direct response to Capitalism, and also a long-term cure.
• 16[00:03:44] <roycroft> i'm not anti-capitalism
• 17[00:03:50] <Azrael_-> ok, i was able to properly stop snapd. unfortunately the ram i still in use and swapping like crazy. "ps auxf" shows 0% memory usage for all processes. is there another way to find out what is using all this ram?
• 18[00:03:59] <roycroft> it's hard for people in the us to be anti-capitalism
• 19[00:04:07] <roycroft> because we've never experienced it
• 20[00:04:14] <Randolf> I'm not anti-Capitalism either, I just think it has far more influence in society than it should.
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• 23[00:04:54] <roycroft> a corporate welfare state is not capitalism
• 24[00:05:08] <Randolf> I agree.
• 25[00:05:29] <Randolf> I have to get this WordPress installation going, and delving into these issues is going to take me away from that.
• 26[00:05:53] <roycroft> wp takes about a minute to install
• 27[00:05:57] <roycroft> especially if you use wp cli
• 28[00:06:00] <roycroft> so go do it
• 29[00:06:17] <Randolf> I do some customizing so it takes a bit longer. That initial part is done already though.
• 30[00:06:30] <Randolf> I also have a new client with a hacked web site that I have to filter out the hacked crap from.
• 31[00:06:39] <Randolf> ...as I bring them over to my system.
• 32[00:07:10] <Randolf> Their WordPress got hacked a number of times on their previous host, and they were charged for it each time. They're not happy with that.
• 33[00:07:40] <Randolf> (I'm going to purposely get used to typing "mariadb" at the command line instead of "mysql.")
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• 35[00:07:43] <roycroft> unless they were paying their hosting provider to keep theire website secure they should be charged for it
• 36[00:08:13] <Randolf> They were promised that the system they were on is 100% secure, so they had a reasonable expectation of not being charged for that.
• 37[00:08:14] <roycroft> we offer premium hosting where we keep the sites up-to-date for the customers
• 38[00:08:17] <Randolf> They're just regular end users.
• 39[00:08:30] <roycroft> that's a bad promise to make
• 40[00:08:34] <Randolf> Yup.
• 41[00:08:40] <roycroft> but the web server itself is probably secure
• 42[00:08:50] <roycroft> it's probably their wp installation that got hacked
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• 44[00:09:02] <roycroft> and that's the user's responsibility, not the hosting provider's
• 45[00:09:07] <Randolf> It is. The Woo Commerce plug-in seems to be the entry point.
• 46[00:09:17] <Randolf> At any rate, they're done with that group.
• 47[00:09:42] <roycroft> i dislike woocommerce, because it needs to be updated so frquently, and the woocommerce database needs to be rebuilt after an update
• 48[00:09:51] <roycroft> it's hard to script updates for stuff like that
• 49[00:10:11] <Randolf> Yup.
• 50[00:10:39] <Randolf> The word "woo" seems weird to me too -- in the skeptic communities I'm in the word "woo" is basically synonyms with "pseudoscience."
• 51[00:10:59] <Randolf> "Deepak Chopra is a woo-peddler."
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• 57[00:15:26] <alex11> speaking of which, RIP randi
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• 61[00:16:30] <Randolf> alex11: Yes, James Randi was a most wonderful contributor to skepticism and also to scientific research methodologies. He will be missed.
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• 151[01:40:09] <jhutchins> uh, not by a lot of us. His methods were illogical and unscientific, based on theatrical magic.
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• 153[01:40:33] <jhutchins> He may not have been wrong, but his methods were insufficient to prove it.
• 154[01:40:45] <jhutchins> This is WAY off topic.
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• 240[03:27:56] <un214> How do I disable the screensaver while mplayer is running?
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• 242[03:35:16] <ryouma> it might have an option
• 243[03:35:34] <un214> I haven't the foggiest. It installed automatically upgrading to buster
• 244[03:36:21] <un214> I found the basic settings screen but don't know how to do anything truly intelligent with it
• 245[03:36:39] <ryouma> the man page seems to have options
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• 253[03:41:54] <un214> I think I'm gonna do something dumb and just send it a STOP signal before launching mplayer
• 254[03:42:13] <un214> after having read the man page I didn't find anything smart
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• 320[05:02:58] <another> is mplayer still maintained?
• 321[05:04:34] <sponix> another: "mpv" is the new maintained fork
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• 323[05:05:10] <another> that's why i'm asking. i've been using mpv for years now
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• 325[05:07:09] <jelly> ,v mplayer
• 326[05:07:20] <jelly> huh.
• 327[05:07:29] <sponix> jelly: net splits
• 328[05:07:32] <dvs> does not exist!!!
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• 330[05:07:39] <dvs> ,wb
• 331[05:07:43] <sponix> there we go
• 332[05:07:54] <jelly> ,v mplayer
• 333[05:07:55] <judd> Package: mplayer on amd64 -- stretch: 2:1.3.0-6; buster: 2:1.3.0-8+b4; bullseye: 2:1.4+ds1-1; sid: 2:1.4+ds1-1; stretch-multimedia: 4:1.3.0~20170413.svn37931-dmo3+deb9u5; buster-multimedia: 4:1.4-dmo3+deb10u4; bullseye-multimedia: 4:1.4.0~20200705.svn38192-dmo3; sid-multimedia: 4:1.4.0~20200705.svn38192-dmo3
• 334[05:08:11] <jelly> look not totally dead
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• 338[05:09:01] <sponix> ,v mpv
• 339[05:09:02] <judd> Package: mpv on amd64 -- jessie: 0.6.2-2; stretch: 0.23.0-2+deb9u2; stretch-security: 0.23.0-2+deb9u2; buster: 0.29.1-1; bullseye: 0.32.0-2+b1; sid: 0.32.0-2+b1; stretch-multimedia: 1:0.27.2-dmo1+deb9u1; buster-multimedia: 1:0.29.1-dmo2; bullseye-multimedia: 1:0.32.0-dmo4; sid-multimedia: 1:0.32.0-dmo4
• 340[05:09:51] <jelly> ,v mplayer2
• 341[05:09:52] <judd> Package: mplayer2 on amd64 -- jessie: 2.0-728-g2c378c7-4+b1; stretch-multimedia: 1:2.0~git20130903-dmo7; stretch: 3:0.23.0-2+deb9u2; stretch-security: 3:0.23.0-2+deb9u2
• 342[05:10:03] <jelly> okay, that one might be dead
• 343[05:10:22] <sponix> I must admit, I never read up on why mpv because a thing
• 344[05:10:28] <sponix> "became a thing"
• 345[05:11:05] <another> meh. it works. might as well use it and watch some video :)
• 346[05:12:31] <alex11> just install slackware and choose from among the 11 video players
• 347[05:12:36] <alex11> /s
• 348[05:12:59] <sponix> seems legit
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• 360[05:35:38] <leibniz> Hello any neat suggestions of things I can install on my vps?
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• 384[06:07:45] <dfcnvt> Greeting
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• 386[06:08:58] <zaherdirkey> how to set current architecture (AMD64) after installing it, without removing old architecture i368?
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• 390[06:12:41] <dfcnvt> I've recently bought Oculus Quest 2 (a VR google)....And have installed an ImmersedVR app along with it...I am shocked by the potential it has -- Right now, I am wearing my oculus and I am interacting with two virtual monitors on my debian desktop environment. I can use my physical keyboard and mouse. I'm able to interact and read just fine with my irssi terminal and to the rest of other application on
• 391[06:12:47] <dfcnvt> debian.
• 392[06:14:04] <dfcnvt> My question is...Since I have two physical LCD monitors -- and it's able to pick up and create the two virtual monitors into my VR environment. My question is, how do I create more "virtual-lcd" on debian in order to create more virtual-monitor in my VR-environment?
• 393[06:15:10] <dfcnvt> (Mind you, I have many Workspaces but it didn't do the trick -- it only perceives the number of actual monitors I have)
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• 396[06:19:57] <sponix> dfcnvt: no idea.. seems like a lot of fun though
• 397[06:20:09] <sponix> zaherdirkey: you don't, you do a fresh 64 bit install
• 398[06:20:49] <zaherdirkey> ty, but i am trying to avoid that
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• 403[06:31:02] <dfcnvt> Okay, let's nevermind about the world of VR. But same question -- within the Settings>Devices>Displays>"Display Arrangement" -- there are two physical monitors...How do I add a virtual monitor and have it appears there? (It probably doesn't make sense if there's no context about the VR...But I guess there is none?)
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• 409[06:36:28] <zaherdirkey> why `sudo apt-get autoremove` removes sudo?!
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• 413[06:39:19] <jmcnaught> zaherdirkey: what package to you remove before the autoremove command? If you run "apt install sudo" it will set it to manually installed.
• 414[06:39:51] <zaherdirkey> i dont remember, but yes i reinstalled it manually
• 415[06:40:06] <zaherdirkey> the idea i cant trust autoremove
• 416[06:40:51] <jmcnaught> You always need to read the list carefully with autoremove. The sudo package must have been installed automatically as a dependency of some package that you removed.
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• 418[06:45:55] <sponix> jmcnaught: sounds like he is working very diligently to break his OS
• 419[06:46:26] <sponix> oh wait... I forgot, we are in Debian and "sudo" isn't even in its base install
• 420[06:46:31] <sponix> ignore me
• 421[06:47:24] <jmcnaught> sudo is recommended by task-desktop so a lot of people will have it installed.
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• 427[06:55:38] <WillPittenger> I'm looking at replaced-url
• 428[06:55:48] * WillPittenger sent a long message: < replaced-url
• 429[06:56:25] <WillPittenger> Since apt isn't trusting the repository's signature, is the apt line needed in there?
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• 435[06:59:51] <WillPittenger> Oh. Even with the repository not trusted, Software and Updates lists it.
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• 470[07:44:03] <WillPittenger> Still can't install palemoon from the repository.
• 471[07:44:04] <WillPittenger> ☹️
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• 476[07:53:41] <alex11> i read that as pokemon and got really confused
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• 480[07:56:30] <wrksx> Hey there
• 481[07:57:02] <wrksx> trying to write a script to be run by systemd
• 482[07:57:33] <wrksx> I want the script to run as soon as possible, it is a temperature monitoring script
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• 484[07:58:01] * tarzeau writes scripts and uses gnu screen in crontab with @restart
• 485[07:58:22] <tarzeau> err @reboot
• 486[07:58:46] <tarzeau> shows a nice example: /usr/share/doc/welle.io/README.Debian
• 487[07:58:56] <wrksx> I need some systemd training+ it's either gonna be a script running
• 488[07:59:19] <wrksx> (oops) all the time or called at very short intervals
• 489[07:59:32] <wrksx> tarzeau: ty, I'll have a look.
• 490[07:59:46] <wrksx> I'm kinda confused about when targets are reached
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• 492[08:00:27] <diogenes_> i have a temp monitoring systemd service.
• 493[08:00:36] <wrksx> diogenes_: that's what I want
• 494[08:00:50] <wrksx> diogenes_: did u write it?
• 495[08:00:57] <diogenes_> wait i'll share.
• 496[08:00:58] <tarzeau> diogenes_: and you're monitoring sesnsors output, all disks, and gpus?
• 497[08:01:24] <wrksx> diogenes_: you're the man
• 498[08:01:24] <tarzeau> i'm using the one of xymon-client (also gives you history data in a graph)
• 499[08:01:27] <diogenes_> i wrote it yeaaars ago.
• 500[08:04:49] <shtrb> Would anyone please tell me against what package I should be opening a bug screenshot by - (wget -c replaced-url
• 501[08:05:34] <shtrb> *I have a rendering problem , had confirmed both when using an Intel graphic card and with Nvidia dedicated card
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• 505[08:07:37] <wrksx> shtrb: nice way to share a sc, never seen it before =)
• 506[08:08:28] <wrksx> shtrb: but I have no idea about what you should do sorry
• 507[08:08:29] <shtrb> :)
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• 509[08:08:43] <wrksx> maybe the package providing the window?
• 510[08:09:19] <shtrb> thanks
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• 518[08:17:30] <diogenes_> wrksx, sorry i couldn't find it, most likely it was on my HDD that i accidentally nuked off when i was stupid enough to attempt a NetBSD dual boot installation, it used to check the CPU temp every 10s and if it reached 80 degrees it beeped and it's not difficult to make one, if you have difficulties then we'll help you out.
• 519[08:18:04] <wrksx> diogenes_: ah, alright =) still gonna be a nice exercice
• 520[08:18:47] <shtrb> wrksx, regarding your script , I used sensors command to get temps to plot my temps , you could use a timer (I used 1 minute timers for other states)
• 521[08:19:36] <shtrb> I had a pipeline designed that would take sensors output , save it as json , use jq to get data out , then plot info collected after several weeks with gnuplot.
• 522[08:21:45] <shtrb> I stopped working on that project , because I figured out what was causing the temp spike on my system, and no longer needed the "proof" that I have average temp higher
• 523[08:22:27] <wrksx> shtrb: as of right now I'll stick to a simple log file with datetime and temp value
• 524[08:22:35] <wrksx> I'll plot that if needed
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• 526[08:24:17] <shtrb> wrksx, you can use the command sensors to get data , you can use send that into log file or what ever you like
• 527[08:25:16] <wrksx> shtrb: I'm comfy with that, it's more the systemd part that I'm workin on
• 528[08:25:40] <shtrb> wrksx, then you can just use a timer to trigger every X minutes for example
• 529[08:25:55] <shtrb> also remember that some sensors need additional packages (like nvme sensors )
• 530[08:26:07] <shtrb> *nvme-cli
• 531[08:26:08] <wrksx> I have sensors already running
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• 533[08:26:33] <shtrb> yes, but there are additional hardware sensors in your system that the standard package does not "see"
• 534[08:26:51] <wrksx> intersting
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• 536[08:27:36] <wrksx> Basically I need to write a systemd .service, and the .timer will plan the execution of that script?
• 537[08:28:09] <shtrb> yes
• 538[08:28:14] <shtrb> it's 10 minute work
• 539[08:29:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1148
• 540[08:29:03] <wrksx> most examples seems to write services and timer to /etc/systemd/system
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• 542[08:31:07] <shtrb> wrksx, something like replaced-url
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• 545[08:36:11] <wrksx> should I be able to see the logs with: journalctl -u tempwatch.service
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• 547[08:36:53] <wrksx> I named it like that, it's temp_sensors in your Exagone313
• 548[08:37:07] <wrksx> in your example (sorry Exagone313 )
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• 550[08:37:57] <shtrb> wrksx, yes (if it's ok that I'm asnwering to you )
• 551[08:38:30] <wrksx> ty (that's OK)
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• 572[08:54:18] <wrksx> starting a service every second makes for awful logs in journalctl
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• 574[08:55:30] <wrksx> is syslog automatically rotating logs?
• 575[08:55:46] *** Joins: AquaL1te (~AquaL1te@replaced-ip)
• 576[08:55:47] <wrksx> (not systemd logs, logs sent to it)
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• 578[08:56:28] <shtrb> wrksx , look at the exmaple I gave you , you can adjust the values
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• 580[08:57:08] <shtrb> In my example it is every 30 seconds
• 581[08:57:13] <wrksx> shtrb: I want it every sec =)
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• 583[08:58:04] <shtrb> in such case, you might prefere to go instead of running every one sec to one with a loop inside and not starting evey second
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• 585[08:58:24] <shtrb> And not a timer but rather a service that run all the time
• 586[08:58:43] <wrksx> I think it might be more reasonable yeah
• 587[08:59:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1162
• 588[08:59:29] <shtrb> timers are good for short bursts (you also play with run if the previous had finished or not) , but if you need a long runnig service , a timer might not be the best option
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• 603[09:11:51] <wrksx> okay it's way better as a "daeomon" like long running process
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• 606[09:12:14] <wrksx> now the script output is going to syslog
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• 609[09:13:01] <wrksx> I read some pages about isolating stuff from syslog in different file but I'm not really understanding it all
• 610[09:13:06] <shtrb> Yes , you can adjust your output to a unique file inside syslog (rsyslog)
• 611[09:13:15] <wrksx> they mention $programname
• 612[09:13:28] <shtrb> You can say that all output from process name programname go to a file called X
• 613[09:14:36] <wrksx> In the service there is a "SyslogIdentifier" setting, does that correspond to the programname?
• 614[09:14:39] <shtrb> the variable $programname is an actual variable you can use , or you can use different configs
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• 616[09:17:03] <wrksx> I see this in the default rsyslog conf:
• 617[09:17:04] <wrksx> kern.* -/var/log/kern.log
• 618[09:17:12] <shtrb> wrksx, that variable modify the current name to it , I think the default is the unitname (so if you had unitX.service the name would be unitX ) , unless
• 619[09:17:16] <wrksx> in the "log by facility" section
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• 621[09:17:46] <wrksx> shtrb: oh so actually SyslogIdentifier=tempwatch is redundant in my case
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• 623[09:18:54] <shtrb> wrksx, I'm not sure , that is why I said I think the default is , I might be wrong
• 624[09:19:06] <wrksx> Right I'll experiment
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• 629[09:22:12] <wrksx> Okay so it currently output in the dedicated log file, AND in /var/log/syslog
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• 631[09:22:42] <wrksx> Is there a way to stop it being writen to syslog?
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• 633[09:23:29] <shtrb> yes
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• 636[09:24:38] <shtrb> create a specific file to for your config , add "& stop" in the end after the matching
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• 639[09:26:52] <jelly> you can also exclude specific facilities from being sources for /var/log/syslog
• 640[09:27:39] <shtrb> jelly, if you use the /etc/rsyslog.d/xx.conf and stop it will not even arrive to the facilities (by default in buster they are run before the rest)
• 641[09:28:42] <jelly> "facility" is a property of each syslog message
• 642[09:29:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1168
• 643[09:29:06] <wrksx> jelly, so that means I have to change the content of the default rules file?
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• 645[09:29:33] <jelly> wrksx: if you choose to do it that way yes
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• 647[09:30:06] <jelly> *.*;auth,authpriv,mail.none -/var/log/syslog # I don't want mail logs duplicated there; auth and authpriv were already excluded by default
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• 649[09:30:44] <wrksx> oh that's the meaning of the hyphen, I was wondering
• 650[09:31:10] <wrksx> But can I create my own facility?
• 651[09:31:11] <jelly> no, facilityname.none is exclusion
• 652[09:31:12] <shtrb> wrksx, you can also use logger or other tools to set the proper level and facility
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• 654[09:31:28] <jelly> - is just buffering writes
• 655[09:31:34] <wrksx> aright
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• 657[09:31:42] <wrksx> It's systemd that redirects output to rsyslog
• 658[09:31:43] <shtrb> wrksx, no need to reinvent the log you have INFO and DEBUG and NOTIFY for less important things
• 659[09:31:56] <jelly> you can't create custom facilities, they're hardcoded in syslog API
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• 661[09:32:02] <wrksx> okay
• 662[09:32:17] <wrksx> So I have to distinguish messages sent by my systemd service
• 663[09:32:17] <shtrb> he does have local :)
• 664[09:32:34] <shtrb> wrksx, you can use specified tools to send messages properly
• 665[09:32:49] <wrksx> you mean systemd isn't sending it properly? =))
• 666[09:32:59] <shtrb> I did not say that
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• 668[09:33:24] <jelly> there are however facilities local0 - local7 that may be used; man 3 syslog
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• 675[09:36:52] <wrksx> okay so the "if $programname == 'tempwatch' then /var/log/tempwatch & stop" works
• 676[09:37:00] <wrksx> I mean it does what I want
• 677[09:37:12] <shtrb> just please read the new syntax for rsyslog
• 678[09:37:20] <wrksx> But I didn't understand the "other way"
• 679[09:37:33] <wrksx> shtrb: will do right now
• 680[09:37:35] <jelly> avoiding changes in the defualt config files is a good idea
• 681[09:38:37] <shtrb> jelly, that also one of the reasons why I suggested to him to go to a uniq file directly in /etc/rsyslog.d/
• 682[09:39:21] <wrksx> shtrb: this syntax? :property, [!]compare-operation, "value"
• 683[09:39:54] <wrksx> yeah I hate changing default config of the debian maintainers =)
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• 685[09:42:18] <Azrael_-> got a linux system with 8gb ram, 7gb is in usage and constantly swapping. according to ps/top/htop all processes are using 0% ram. how can i find out what is using this ram and/or free it? memstat shows 1.1gb usage, but top 7gb
• 686[09:43:10] <shtrb> Azrael_-, pmap , you can also remove the swappines
• 687[09:43:16] <shtrb> *reduce the swappines
• 688[09:44:43] <wrksx> shtrb: is that what u were talking about, regarding the new syntax?
• 689[09:44:44] <wrksx> :programname,isequal,"tempwatch" -/var/log/tempwatch.log
• 690[09:44:55] <Azrael_-> do i have to manually go through every pid with this? seems to be extremely difficult for me to find out what is hogging up the memory
• 691[09:45:02] <shtrb> wrksx, yes
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• 693[09:45:20] <wrksx> shtrb: alright, got it thanks.
• 694[09:45:38] <jelly> Azrael_-: which debian release is this? Which kernel?
• 695[09:45:55] <shtrb> buster config are for the old mode , I do not know , but maybe soon the config will move to the "new" syntax
• 696[09:46:03] <shtrb> *for old syntax
• 697[09:46:07] <Azrael_-> debian 10 - 4.19.0-9-amd64
• 698[09:46:19] <jelly> ok, that's recent and pretty standard
• 699[09:46:28] <wrksx> Should or shouldn't I buffer writes for my case? it's writing one line per second, I don't think it's a good idea, what do you think?
• 700[09:46:52] <Azrael_-> if i can avoid it, i don't want to have to restart the machien
• 701[09:46:56] <shtrb> wrksx, you are DOSing your own system
• 702[09:47:06] <jelly> Azrael_-: show the output of "free -m" (in a pastebin), also run top, press capital M, and pastebin or screenshot that as wel
• 703[09:47:11] <wrksx> shtrb: am I?
• 704[09:47:24] <wrksx> 1 write per second?
• 705[09:47:35] <shtrb> wrksx, if you are writing logs every second you are adding overhead (disk write take time )
• 706[09:48:30] <shtrb> I don't know how much you write , but you have an upper limit for the bus. the less bytes you write the better
• 707[09:48:32] <Azrael_-> replaced-url
• 708[09:48:45] <wrksx> shtrb: is that an argument for buffering writes?
• 709[09:49:05] <shtrb> yes
• 710[09:49:34] <wrksx> I thought 1 per sec was chill, my bad. Good to ask =)
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• 712[09:50:14] <jelly> Azrael_-: "noname" is a normal user?
• 713[09:50:15] <shtrb> it also depends on how much you write , and what type of IO you have , I have slow SSD here and talk from annoyance
• 714[09:50:27] <shtrb> wrksx, ^
• 715[09:50:40] <Azrael_-> yes, noname is my unpriviledged user
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• 718[09:51:43] <wrksx> so is rsyslog automatically taking care of rotating the logs? or should I do it?
• 719[09:52:15] <shtrb> wrksx, you have logrotate config to do it already
• 720[09:52:21] <jelly> wrksx: logrotate does rotation for rsyslog
• 721[09:52:36] <wrksx> okay so it's preset to work with my logfile
• 722[09:52:50] <wrksx> so I don't have to configure it?
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• 724[09:52:57] <wrksx> (logrotate)
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• 727[09:54:16] <jelly> wrksx: if you set up a new log file you'll want to add it to /etc/logrotate.d/rsyslog or create a new config for logrotate as well, employing the same postrotate script as in that one
• 728[09:54:28] <shtrb> it depends , you might look at /etc/logrotate/rsyslog for examples how to do it . (if you have a new file you should create a new config file)
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• 731[09:55:11] <jelly> Azrael_-: what is lpqd?
• 732[09:55:29] <wrksx> jelly, shtrb, right will do thanks
• 733[09:56:17] <shtrb> jelly, normally that should be a printing service
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• 735[09:56:48] <jelly> shtrb: for which printing service?
• 736[09:56:58] <jelly> judd: file bin/lpqd
• 737[09:57:03] <judd> No packages in buster/amd64 were found with that file.
• 738[09:57:59] <jelly> Azrael_-: as root, "pstree -Aau" and pastebin that as well
• 739[09:58:04] <shtrb> ,v lpqd
• 740[09:58:05] <judd> No package named 'lpqd' was found in amd64.
• 741[09:58:20] <Azrael_-> jelly: no idea, if i run "ps auxf | grep lpqd", it doesn't show up at all. the content of "/proc/29596/cmdline" is "/usr/sbin/smbd--foreground--no-process-group". so this seems to be related to smbd
• 742[09:59:15] <Azrael_-> jelly: replaced-url
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• 744[10:00:01] <jelly> Azrael_-: run top again, with M, but press lowercase c a couple times back and forth. Are there other processes with significantly different cmdline and argv0?
• 745[10:00:03] <Azrael_-> as this problem persists already for some time i thought stopping nearly everything helped. but just now i realized the memory is probably the problem
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• 749[10:00:46] <shtrb> Azrael_-, you can disbale printing in samba all toghter if you do not use it
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• 751[10:01:11] <jelly> Azrael_-: I haven't taken a look at samba in a long while, these processes might be normal.
• 752[10:01:13] <Azrael_-> shtrb: will do after resolving this issue
• 753[10:01:33] <Azrael_-> already stopped smbd but the ram was still hogged
• 754[10:01:50] <shtrb> jelly, it is a normal process, but if you do not use printing and have constraints , sometimes it's good to stop stuff we do not use
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• 758[10:03:11] <jelly> Azrael_-: do all the smbd processes from that subtree disappear if you stop smbd.service ?
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• 760[10:03:58] <Azrael_-> here is the output with a stopped smbd: replaced-url
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• 762[10:04:58] <hegemoOn> hello any zstandard python package available for debian 10 ?
• 763[10:06:06] <shtrb> Azrael_-, if you do not use netbios , you may also drop nmbd too
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• 765[10:06:34] <jelly> there's really not much running, exim, mdadm, smartd and that's it
• 766[10:06:58] <shtrb> Azrael_-, or if you do not need to "browse" the "workgroup" by a windows machine and see your server
• 767[10:07:12] <shtrb> Azrael_-, what is your swappines ?
• 768[10:07:14] <jelly> Azrael_-: is this a physical system or a VM or a VPS/container?
• 769[10:07:26] <jelly> shtrb: there's not much swap in use
• 770[10:08:06] <Azrael_-> it is a small physical nas-system. i just realize that even the smallest actions just take AGES. e.g. logging in/top/scrolling often takes over 30sec for the first response
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• 772[10:08:18] <shtrb> jelly, he was saying that stuff had been going to swap before , something should had sent it there, if there is enough mem it could be a high swappines
• 773[10:08:19] <Azrael_-> my best assumption was the swappiness and hogged up ram
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• 775[10:08:54] <Azrael_-> most of the time i saw kswapd using up 100% cpu, that's why i jumped to the conclusion: swappiness
• 776[10:09:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1175
• 777[10:09:30] <shtrb> Is it one of the everything connected via USB connection and you just plugged a USB drive inside ?
• 778[10:09:48] <jelly> so the system does not _behave_ as if it had 8GB useful
• 779[10:09:56] <Azrael_-> correct
• 780[10:10:06] <Azrael_-> everything is internal and i'm connected to it using a gbit ethernet connection
• 781[10:10:24] <jelly> Azrael_-: dunno, it's weird. pastebin dmesg?
• 782[10:10:27] * shtrb is out of ideas
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• 784[10:11:42] <jelly> Azrael_-: also, lsmod
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• 787[10:12:33] <Azrael_-> before anything started i also ran bacula. then stopped it. seems like there is an error in dmesg regarding bacula: replaced-url
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• 789[10:13:09] <Azrael_-> lsmod-output: replaced-url
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• 791[10:14:48] <Azrael_-> just stopped also apparmor/exim, still no improvement
• 792[10:14:49] <jelly> that kernel got buggy
• 793[10:15:03] <jelly> no other recourse but to reboot
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• 795[10:15:13] <jelly> ,kernel
• 796[10:15:14] <judd> Available kernel versions are: experimental: 5.9.0-rc8-686-pae (5.9~rc8-1~exp1); sid: 5.9.0-2-686-pae (5.9.6-1); bullseye: 5.9.0-1-686 (5.9.1-1); buster-backports: 5.8.0-0.bpo.2-686 (5.8.10-1~bpo10+1); buster: 4.19.0-12-686-pae (4.19.152-1); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.9-686-pae (4.19.118-2+deb10u1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.19.0-0.bpo.12-686 (4.19.152-1~deb9u1); jessie-backports:
• 797[10:15:15] <judd> 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.12-686 (4.9.210-1+deb9u1~deb8u1)
• 798[10:15:32] <Azrael_-> k,gotta do it later as the system is fully encrypted and don't have time for this yet
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• 801[10:16:09] <Azrael_-> then i'll do all available updates and hope nothing breaks (regarding decryption)
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• 803[10:16:46] <jelly> when you have time, reboot first, then do updates, then reboot again
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• 805[10:17:02] <Azrael_-> will do. thanks for the support so far
• 806[10:17:11] <jelly> who knows whether apt is going to behave nicely in this state
• 807[10:17:24] <Azrael_-> already installed memstate. only took 10min :)
• 808[10:17:30] <jelly> dmesg is too short however.
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• 811[10:18:39] <jelly> Azrael_-: journalctl -kb ... might show the whole thing starting from boot
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• 813[10:19:20] <Azrael_-> here is the full dmesg output: replaced-url
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• 816[10:21:00] <Azrael_-> does this give you some more hints?
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• 818[10:21:32] <jelly> not really, it looks reasonable and no kernel clues. Lots of bacula segfaulting, and struggling under memory pressure, but that's just a symptom
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• 822[10:21:46] <shtrb> Azrael_-, can you backup stuff before you upgrade ? just in case
• 823[10:22:18] <Azrael_-> shtrb: no, this is my backup system and video storage
• 824[10:22:28] <jelly> this _is_ the backup server it seems :-)
• 825[10:22:41] <Azrael_-> not enough space for backing up my video storage :)
• 826[10:22:42] <shtrb> oh lord
• 827[10:23:07] <shtrb> We need a backup , for the backup system :D
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• 829[10:23:28] * shtrb pets his offline drive
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• 832[10:25:10] <Azrael_-> originally i tried setting up this system to regularly make full+incremental backups of my windows machine. but miserably failed with bacula. my intention was to have this system to automatically do backups without my windows machine having any access to the storage (just in case of an attack)
• 833[10:25:50] <shtrb> Azrael_-, that's the normal way , we do not trust windows
• 834[10:26:05] <shtrb> windows itself is an attack vector
• 835[10:26:49] <Azrael_-> will ask for suggestions how to set up such a backup in a better way when the system is running again properly
• 836[10:26:53] <jelly> can bacula do VSS snapshots on windows?
• 837[10:28:00] <Azrael_-> don't think so, for incremental backups it creats a new local full backup and only then does the diff for the incremental one. quite tedious having to transfer the whole data multiple times instead of just the diff
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• 839[10:29:01] <Azrael_-> and yes, bacula can support VSS
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• 852[10:40:58] <Azrael_-> ahhhh, after a restart i have again 7gb ram available. feels a lot better :)
• 853[10:41:31] <jelly> go do a full-upgrade now, you're couple of kernels behind
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• 855[10:41:36] <rdz> hey all. What is the proper way to make /usr/bin/wish8.6 available as /usr/bin/wish?
• 856[10:41:58] <rdz> do I have to manually create a symlink?
• 857[10:42:12] <jelly> rdz: which debian release?
• 858[10:42:26] <rdz> jelly, 10
• 859[10:42:32] <Azrael_-> but i won't go to bullseye yet :)
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• 862[10:43:09] <jelly> rdz: it should already be pointing to 8.6 on buster
• 863[10:43:17] <jelly> rdz: dpkg -S /usr/bin/wish /usr/bin/wish8.6
• 864[10:43:29] <jelly> rdz: and which versions of those packages are installed
• 865[10:44:01] <rdz> tk8.6 tcl8.6
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• 867[10:44:16] <rdz> may i have to install tk instead of tk8.6?
• 868[10:44:22] <rdz> (assuming it exists)
• 869[10:44:33] <jelly> rdz: that's weird. Which package ships /usr/bin/wish ?
• 870[10:44:39] <jelly> on your system
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• 873[10:44:44] <rdz> jelly, solved
• 874[10:44:47] <rdz> had to intsall tk
• 875[10:44:53] <jelly> yep.
• 876[10:45:20] <rdz> only package tk provides that file
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• 878[10:45:52] <rdz> i thinkt it was different in earlier Debians.. however, it makes sense how it is now
• 879[10:46:49] <jelly> ,v tk
• 880[10:46:50] <judd> Package: tk on amd64 -- jessie: 8.6.0+8; stretch: 8.6.0+9; buster: 8.6.9+1; bullseye: 8.6.9+1+b1; sid: 8.6.9+1+b1; experimental: 8.7.0+0~exp2
• 881[10:46:58] *** Quits: dionysus69 (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 882[10:47:18] <jelly> seems "tk" has been there only since debian 8
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• 886[10:49:21] <rdz> jelly, then i clearly misremembered how I did it some time ago.. can't be that long ago (pre-jessie times)
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• 895[10:57:04] <wrksx> shtrb, jelly, finally my systemd service to log temperature is complete! (with logrotate).
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• 897[10:57:09] <wrksx> thanks for your help
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• 900[10:57:52] <shtrb> yw , and would you share the product somewhere ? gitlab/github/pastebin etc someone else might like it later
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• 902[10:59:23] <wrksx> that would be cool
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• 916[11:05:49] <wyre> is there any debian jessie official image for docker?
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• 919[11:06:30] <wyre> replaced-url
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• 929[11:14:01] <shtrb> wyre, that is not "offical"
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• 933[11:14:31] <shtrb> wyre, you can "build" the image yourself ,it's not a probelm
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• 935[11:15:13] <wyre> shtrb, downloading the iso?
• 936[11:15:46] <shtrb> debbootstrap , installing , then creating an image
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• 938[11:16:21] <shtrb> but _debian is maintained by debian developers , but for what I know docker is not "official"
• 939[11:17:26] <shtrb> wyre, the url you used and replaced-url
• 940[11:17:38] <wyre> debian developers, you mean?
• 941[11:18:14] <shtrb> yes , a DD is a debian developer
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• 943[11:19:28] <Azrael_-> ok, after all done upgrades everything is now working a lot smoother.
• 944[11:20:17] <Azrael_-> can you suggest me a system/setup to create automatically full/incremental backups of a windows system? (while the windows system is running)
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• 956[11:31:04] <Azrael_-> i don't need a full system backup, just some specific files
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• 960[11:32:52] <andre144k> hello all - anyone packagename for kdelibs5-dev in debian testing?
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• 990[12:06:22] <jelly> wyre: jessie is out of regular support, perhaps that's why there's no image (any more)
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• 993[12:08:17] <Azrael_-> jelly: any suggestion regarding my backup question?
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• 995[12:09:28] <jelly> Azrael_-: no, but if you figure it out I'm interested as well ;-)
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• 997[12:10:44] <Azrael_-> hehe, ok
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• 1024[12:38:55] <wyre> jelly, yes, I've used finally buster 😄
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• 1032[12:42:49] <Rodon> midnight commander screen goes blank after opening a file in any window manager session (dwm,bspwm,awesome)... unlike in DEs . howto fix this? using buster default mc version.
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• 1034[12:43:42] <jelly> Rodon: which terminal emulator are you using?
• 1035[12:44:12] <Rodon> xfce-terminal/st/ i have checked on both..
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• 1037[12:44:56] <Rodon> all works fine i open mc in xfce
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• 1039[12:45:37] <jelly> using the same terminal emulator? weird
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• 1042[12:47:54] <Rodon> whats weird ? i have tested it many terminal emulators .. result is same ..
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• 1060[13:03:19] <jelly> Rodon: that the same terminal emulator behaves differently depending on the wm/de session
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• 1066[13:14:24] <nevivurn`> Hi, I am using fcitx to switch between English and Korean input, using RAlt to switch between them. How can I make it so apps like firefox don't open the menu when I press a key along with RAlt?
• 1067[13:15:05] <nevivurn`> On some other keyboards, it seemed to detect the RAlt key as the "Hangul" key or something
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• 1073[13:20:55] <wrksx> re
• 1074[13:21:41] <wrksx> shtrb: I still have temp issue, my little script recorded temps until the crash and it seems unrealated to CPU
• 1075[13:22:10] <wrksx> now I need to grad temp data from other sensors, and I remember you mentionned aditional packages to install
• 1076[13:22:26] <wrksx> so that sensors would be able to read them all
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• 1079[13:25:25] <wrksx> specifically
• 1080[13:25:28] <wrksx> specifically nvme-cli
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• 1083[13:30:25] <shtrb> wrksx , nvme-cli give you the nvme sensors , nnvidia-kernel-dkms (with the other nvidia drivers) have several nvidia ones. take a look over ALL of you sensors (because may be taking the wrong sensors for your goal)
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• 1085[13:32:55] <shtrb> wrksx, you should also have updated UEFI firmware and acpi enabled so poewrtop and friends could have readings from the board itself
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• 1087[13:33:05] <wrksx> shtrb: it's hard to locate all the senseors =)
• 1088[13:33:16] <wrksx> I know bios reports a few of them
• 1089[13:33:29] <shtrb> start by running sensors in command line to see what is registered now
• 1090[13:33:57] <wrksx> Yeah I have amdgpu-pci-0700 and k10temp-pci-00c3 which looks like it's CPU
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• 1092[13:34:37] <shtrb> There should be more , I have ~30 sensors reports just from sensors (lm-sensors)
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• 1098[13:38:53] <wrksx> shtrb: on a desktop computer?
• 1099[13:39:17] <shtrb> yes
• 1100[13:39:30] <shtrb> correction on a laptop
• 1101[13:39:45] <wrksx> right
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• 1103[13:41:16] <shtrb> a PC should have more , just the CPU should have 1 sensor per core , I think that the memory bay should also have sensors , each sata disk should have sensors , each pci-e have temp etc
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• 1108[13:52:08] <wrksx> I have to tell I'm not under debian anymore (switched computer) but mint
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• 1111[13:54:20] <wrksx> apt policy lm-sensors return Installed: 1:3.4.0-4
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• 1120[13:56:58] <wrksx> "This package doesn't contain chip-specific knowledge. It will support all
• 1121[13:56:58] <wrksx> the hardware monitoring chips your kernel has drivers for."
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• 1176[14:45:27] <wrksx> kernel update provided some new sensors
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• 1182[14:49:39] <shtrb> :)
• 1183[14:50:05] <shtrb> wrksx , check if you do not start with acpi=off
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• 1233[15:40:05] <wrksx> hum I had issues with a disk used for backup, I ran fsck on it, now the lost+found dir is full of crap
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• 1235[15:40:36] <wrksx> looks like 37G of crap
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• 1237[15:40:59] <wrksx> not sure since do fails to run correctly
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• 1241[15:41:24] <wrksx> I'm fine removing it all should I expect issues?
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• 1245[15:46:25] <Brigo> wrksx, that is recovery data, you may want to check it if there was important date in that disk. If no, yu can just safely ignore it.
• 1246[15:46:49] <wrksx> Brigo: this is backup data, I can get rid of it
• 1247[15:47:10] <wrksx> but I cannot delete the files "Structure needs cleaning"
• 1248[15:48:37] <wrksx> I'll try to use fsck again
• 1249[15:49:18] <wrksx> fcsk found some more crap to fix...
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• 1253[15:51:16] <wrksx> fsck is finding corropted stuff in lost+found
• 1254[15:51:43] <wrksx> ok now it reports "clean"
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• 1256[15:52:06] <greycat> !lost+found
• 1257[15:52:06] <dpkg> i guess lost+found is a directory where recovered information (bits of files usually) goes after repairing an ext{2,3,4} or XFS filesystem. Created by mklost+found or xfs_repair.
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• 1263[15:55:18] <wrksx> rm lost+found is taking forever
• 1264[15:55:59] <greycat> "I didn't want any of these files in the first place, so fuck it, I will just delete them all! I didn't just nuke the entire file system and start from scratch because .... uh ....."
• 1265[15:56:17] <wrksx> yeah I maybe should have done that
• 1266[15:56:22] <karlpinc> wrksx: You might install smartmontools and run smartctl and see what smart thinks of the health of your disk. It won't always tell you when there is a problem but if it finds one you probably have one.
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• 1268[15:56:54] <wrksx> karlpinc: yeah will do.
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• 1272[15:59:14] <wrksx> I think I'll have to do it greycat, 34G left to rm
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• 1304[16:14:16] <jubalh> hi
• 1305[16:14:29] <jubalh> how does the watch file/uscan test for new upstream releaes?
• 1306[16:14:38] <jubalh> they cannot really check all possibly combinations of they are online, right?
• 1307[16:17:14] <Brigo> jubalh, are you talking about package maintaining?
• 1308[16:17:31] <jubalh> yep
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• 1310[16:17:49] <greycat> I still can't parse this question.
• 1311[16:18:04] <Brigo> i think i made a small script or something like that for checking for releases.
• 1312[16:18:28] <jubalh> ah i'm on freenode
• 1313[16:18:32] <jubalh> i wanted to go to oftc ;)
• 1314[16:18:49] <Brigo> greycat, about checking for updates when you mantain a package
• 1315[16:19:24] <Brigo> jubalh, there is a channel there, mentor where there is people better than me for that kind of questions.
• 1316[16:19:27] <Brigo> !mentors
• 1317[16:19:27] <dpkg> rumour has it, mentors is the system the Debian project uses to train new people to become Debian Developers or Debian Maintainers and get their packages into the Debian archive. Ask me about <nmg>. replaced-url
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• 1319[16:19:35] <greycat> Well, if you care about something, you are probably subscribed to its mailing lists, or you interact with its developers or its support community in some way, yes? Or you just wait for someone to file a wishlist bug saying "version N is out".
• 1320[16:19:50] <jubalh> Brigo: thanks
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• 1324[16:20:08] <Brigo> greycat, there is an atuomatick test system too.
• 1325[16:20:16] <greycat> That is terrifying and disgusting.
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• 1327[16:20:59] <Brigo> when you see a "there is a new version of this package" in the tracker, it is this system. It also sends you a mail.
• 1328[16:22:07] <greycat> Ah. not something the actual developers use in place of caring. Something the overseers of Debian use to whip the developers.
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• 1330[16:22:10] <greycat> That's different.
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• 1342[16:38:15] <djp_> is there a way to only delete retrieved packages from /var/cache/apt/archives/ that have been uninstalled? can i just delete the individual package manually without messing up apt?
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• 1345[16:39:15] <greycat> You can delete *all* of the .deb files in that directory without "messing up apt".
• 1346[16:39:45] <greycat> The only reason to keep them there is if you suspect you may need to reinstall that package in the future and want to avoid re-downloading it. Or e.g. if you share that directory across multiple Debian systems.
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• 1348[16:41:46] <djp_> greycat: thanks.
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• 1362[17:04:38] <wrksx> seems my hdd is failing
• 1363[17:04:44] <wrksx> damn
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• 1366[17:05:08] <wrksx> is this a bad idea to mount hdd vertically? that might have been my mistake...
• 1367[17:05:21] <petn-randall> no
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• 1370[17:07:41] <wrksx> okay then
• 1371[17:07:46] <wrksx> just done it's time
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• 1383[17:20:18] <wrksx> smartmontools report says # 1 Short offline Completed: read failure 90% 8163 3907026272
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• 1385[17:20:44] <wrksx> but what does the 90% means in that context
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• 1388[17:23:27] <uniqdom> Hello, I have a Debian headless install. I would like to auto mount a fs when inserting a memory stick. What packages I'm missing to do that task?
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• 1391[17:25:05] <ratrace> autofs maybe
• 1392[17:25:23] <uniqdom> I came to autofs (replaced-url
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• 1394[17:26:04] <ratrace> yes because desktop environment means you have some dbus udisk something something gnome gvfs blah thingy that does that. no such thing on a headless install
• 1395[17:26:36] <uniqdom> ratrace, ok :)
• 1396[17:27:05] <ratrace> you can also whip up a .device and .mount systemd units that mount it when the device appears
• 1397[17:29:54] <uniqdom> ratrace: thanks, I will search about those systemd units file
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• 1406[17:32:34] <ratrace> uniqdom: in fact, it appears that maybe you don't even need special device unit at all, just a systemd automount option in fstab: replaced-url
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• 1408[17:32:58] <ratrace> I think you can even use the UUID and not just /device, if you want only that one specific usb stick automounted
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• 1490[18:50:08] <thatpythonguy> is it ever preferred to run a service using docker instead of the traditional method (download, compile, run binary, or just apt install)? Assuming the service is available both ways.
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• 1494[18:50:36] <nkuttler> thatpythonguy: on debian, apt install is always preferred
• 1495[18:50:45] <Brigo> thatpythonguy, not by a long shot
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• 1497[18:52:47] <sney> well, if it's some closed-source black box daemon that's doing who knows what, or needs its own special patched version of mysql, or is required by the business but is known to have security problems, etc, it can make sense to keep it in a container away from everything else
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• 1499[18:53:09] <roycroft> docker can be useful for development, but it's not really designed for running production services, imo
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• 1503[18:54:50] <sney> all these different kinds of virtualization are just tools. understand the tools, understand your environment and use case(s), decide which tools to use.
• 1504[18:54:58] <sney> don't listen to salespeople. lol
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• 1512[18:59:00] <thatpythonguy> roycroft: i'm pretty sure k8s/docker is used on a lot of production services because it's easy to scale. but for me, an average joe who's only ever gonna need 1 server to run a service, it might not be necessary
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• 1514[19:00:42] <thatpythonguy> i run a funkwhale server, which requires like 3 services (e.g. SQL db) to run. I chose to use Docker because it was super easy to install and funkwhale offered an all-in-one docker container. I didn't have to worry about the services working together or versioning or anything. Is this bad?
• 1515[19:01:14] <thatpythonguy> perhaps the best solution is whichever is the easiest for you. But just wanted to hear out any arguments against that
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• 1518[19:01:43] <nkuttler> thatpythonguy: only you can decide what's best for your circumstances
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• 1520[19:02:09] <nkuttler> thatpythonguy: if you have to ask i have to point out that using data can easily lead to data loss
• 1521[19:02:15] <nkuttler> using docker
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• 1523[19:03:10] <thatpythonguy> nkuttler: that's definitely true if you're not using Docker Volumes since the whole container gets destroyed sometimes. I made sure to use volumes so my data is persistent between reboots and new containers or a new server down the line
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• 1544[19:19:12] <thatpythonguy> why does debian choose to enable apparmor by default and not selinux?
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• 1551[19:20:34] <alex11> thatpythonguy, replaced-url
• 1552[19:20:38] <alex11> to get a general idea
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• 1561[19:27:51] <thatpythonguy> alex11: thanks
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• 1582[19:51:21] <Lope> noob question: Let's assume I've got a MBR partition table, and I've got buster installed at /dev/sda2 and SID installed at /dev/sda3 and grub is installed at /dev/sda1 ... assuming I only install the grub and linux-image packages in the /dev/sda2 rootfs, but not don't install those packages in /dev/sda3, will grub be able to boot both root filesystems?
• 1583[19:51:47] <Lope> I'm just wondering if I can "try sid out" and let both coexist while I'm doing so.
• 1584[19:52:00] <Lope> Cos I don't want to render buster inoperable.
• 1585[19:52:06] <sney> yes, grub can detect and boot multiple linux installs on one system.
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• 1587[19:52:14] <Lope> If I want to do it without a spare SSD etc.
• 1588[19:52:16] <sney> but for your use case of trying sid, why not use a VM
• 1589[19:52:23] <Lope> sney, does that require os-prober?
• 1590[19:52:31] <sney> iirc yes
• 1591[19:52:39] <Lope> sney, I want to try it with nvidia crap
• 1592[19:52:48] <Lope> amongst other GPU stuff
• 1593[19:52:58] <Lope> and I don't have VFIO etc etc
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• 1595[19:53:54] <Lope> Seems like a low enough risk (in terms of making my workstation unbootable)
• 1596[19:53:56] <sney> having grub detect both debian installs automatically would require os-prober, I should say. you can manually configure whatever in /etc/grub.d without os-prober
• 1597[19:54:32] <Lope> I already did shenanigans the other day (I tried upgrading buster to SID and it broke, and system was unbootable etc) and had to restore a backup.
• 1598[19:54:50] <Lope> okay
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• 1600[19:55:36] <dob1> can I know which packages for buster has been upgraded in the last 5 days =?
• 1601[19:55:56] <sney> dob1: on your system, look in /var/log/apt/history.log
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• 1603[19:57:05] <dob1> nothing strange, I installed quota... I know the question seems "strange" but can quota affect xrdp?
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• 1606[19:58:05] <sney> it doesn't sound like it would, but check readme.debian for both packages, changelogs, and/or the bug tracker to find out for sure
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• 1608[20:00:14] <alexrelis[m]> I was using Cinnamon but I just recently switched to Openbox. When I switched to Openbox, some of my flatpaks like Element and LibreOffice (installed from flathub) have stopped working. What could be the problem?
• 1609[20:00:58] <alex11> what do you mean 'stopped working'
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• 1612[20:01:27] <dob1> can I know when I restarted a service?
• 1613[20:01:36] <alexrelis[m]> Here is the error when I try to open Element: [fake-sandbox: zypack-sandbox] No data could be found (host died?)
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• 1615[20:02:02] <alexrelis[m]> I apologize for not giving the error earlier. I have to type these messages on my phone.
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• 1617[20:03:29] <sney> dob1: 'systemctl status' for the service will likely have that information, or see more in 'journalctl -u servicename'
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• 1619[20:05:14] <dob1> it's .... I don't know how to describe it... there is a setting in sesman.ini that was ALWAYS ignored, I never restart the service, never rebooted in the last days and now it is not ignored anymore (is disconnect idle connection setting)
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• 1621[20:05:41] <dob1> I can't understand what changed this behaviour
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• 1630[20:14:43] <alexrelis[m]> Does anyone know how to get a notification daemon working for Openbox?
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• 1646[20:22:14] <ndegruchy> alexrelis[m]: like, dbus-notify? something like dunst?
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• 1650[20:23:50] <ndegruchy> alexrelis[m]: so, dunst gives you notifications and libnotify-bin has a utility called 'notify-send' that you can use to trigger a notification manually.
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• 1666[20:38:35] <shtrb> how do I set get that when it auto adds public keys to known_hosts , it will not add hashed keys but the domain or ip address ?
• 1667[20:39:05] <greycat> shtrb: ssh_config(5) HashKnownHosts
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• 1670[20:39:47] <shtrb> Thank you greycat cat , will check
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• 1678[20:44:25] <shtrb> Thank you greychat, is there a better way then putting it inside ~/.ssh/config (to make it ONLY affect git ) ?
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• 1680[20:45:11] <alexrelis[m]> ndegruchy: I'm trying to run xfce4-notifyd but it gives me an error every time I initiate it. It doesn't even give me a specific error message.
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• 1684[20:46:09] <ndegruchy> alexrelis[m]: Try dunst. XFCE4 stuff is intended to work together in the xfce environment
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• 1686[20:46:42] <alexrelis[m]> Okay
• 1687[20:47:23] <ndegruchy> you can spin it up with systemctl --user enable --now dunst ;; then if you have libnotify-bin installed, you can test it with notify-send
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• 1699[20:56:37] <hop> is there a central document or discussion thread regarding the /usr merge?
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• 1701[20:57:01] <greycat> !usrmerge
• 1702[20:57:01] <dpkg> /usr merge is the combining of /bin and /usr/bin, /sbin and /usr/sbin on fresh installs of Debian 10 Buster. On machines upgraded from Stretch, this is optional, and can be accomplished if desired via the usrmerge package
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• 1705[20:57:10] <greycat> ... come on, really?!
• 1706[20:57:13] <alexrelis[m]> ndegruchy: Just tried it. When I run the systemctl command as you wrote it I get `Loaded: error (Reason: Unit dunst.service failed to load properly: File exists.)`. But when I run it in a terminal, it works fine.
• 1707[20:57:34] <alexrelis[m]> ndegruchy: would it be advisable to just include it in my autostart?
• 1708[20:57:47] <greycat> dpkg, usrmerge is also <replaced-url
• 1709[20:57:48] <dpkg> greycat: okay
• 1710[20:57:51] <uniqdom> Hello, a UUID is a property of the disk partition itself. if clone a microSD that has a partition, both microSD (the original and the new one) MUST have the same UUID, right?
• 1711[20:58:03] <hop> still interesting, because i seem to remember machines from before stretch upgraded to usrmerge withouth manual intervention, so i'll have to dig into that…
• 1712[20:58:23] <hop> greycat: thanks. don't know why i haven't found that
• 1713[20:58:24] <jelly> uniqdom: uuid is property of the filesystem, not the device it resides on
• 1714[20:58:59] <uniqdom> jelly, so both UUID must match, right?
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• 1716[20:59:17] <jelly> uniqdom: so yes, if you make a bitwise copy of the whole device with a filesystem, the fs copy will have same UUID
• 1717[20:59:28] <uniqdom> thanks :)
• 1718[20:59:33] <hop> greycat: oh, no, wait… i now remember reading this page. it just didn't stick :D
• 1719[20:59:46] <greycat> there's not a lot on it; but it does have links to other pages
• 1720[21:00:17] <uniqdom> If I shrink a partition, will it change its UUID?
• 1721[21:00:43] <greycat> it shouldn't
• 1722[21:01:00] <jelly> uniqdom: this can create problems when UUID= is used to reference a filesystem (like, in /etc/fstab, but also elsewhere) so there's usually a way to change it. ext3 has tune2fs -U ...
• 1723[21:01:03] <jelly> ext4 *
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• 1725[21:01:56] <shtrb> shouldn't we still still use /{bin,sbin,lib} if we will have optane ?
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• 1727[21:03:44] <jelly> uniqdom: "partition" is part of disk, a block device. filesystem is a data structure residing on a block device. When you "shrink a partition" you shrink the filesystem first to fit the future new size. Or you have data loss.
• 1728[21:04:45] <hop> none of those pages answer my questions, but it doesn't really matter (:
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• 1731[21:05:47] <hop> shtrb: can you explain?
• 1732[21:06:42] <shtrb> In theory , in the past we had /{bin,sbin,lib} on a separate fast disk and /usr on a "slow" hard drive , now we have optane (fast disk) and SSDs (slow disks)
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• 1734[21:07:08] <shtrb> so theoretically we should be still having the differences at least for such cases
• 1735[21:07:38] <hop> shtrb: that sounds like a completely fabricated strawman argument
• 1736[21:08:16] <hop> even _if_ performance differences ever have been a thing, that's decades past
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• 1742[21:09:47] <shtrb> But Optane is so fast and so good compared to regular SSD ...
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• 1744[21:09:58] <hop> so?
• 1745[21:10:05] <shtrb> *it's a joke , I'm joking
• 1746[21:10:05] <hop> i don't see the scenario
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• 1748[21:10:11] <hop> oh, sorry
• 1749[21:10:18] <hop> really, my bad
• 1750[21:10:20] <greycat> shtrb: it was never about disk speed; it was about disk sizes. The original systems couldn't store all the data on one disk, so they started dividing it up across multiple disks, and we got what we got.
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• 1752[21:10:44] <shtrb> greycat, and optane disk are small too , that is why I thought it was fitting
• 1753[21:11:25] <hop> nowadays i'd rather put the /system/ on the slow device
• 1754[21:11:37] <shtrb> *optane disks are like 64 GB "disk"
• 1755[21:11:50] <hop> .oO(that's small??)
• 1756[21:12:03] * hop feels inadequate
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• 1758[21:12:40] <shtrb> hop , the first ones I had seen in shops where 16 GB
• 1759[21:13:21] <hop> that would still leave room on my system for a decent novel or two
• 1760[21:13:40] <hop> or all of them, really
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• 1773[21:22:22] <hop> one question that i'm too stupid to find the answer to: is there a plan for changing packages' paths? does this need bug reports? is it even of interest to anyone?
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• 1777[21:24:11] <nkuttler> hop: why do you need to change the path? debian packages should follow the fhs
• 1778[21:24:24] <nkuttler> if it's not fhs-compliant it's a serious bug iirc
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• 1780[21:25:25] <hop> nkuttler: wat?
• 1781[21:25:27] <jelly> usrmerge ruins about half of fhs
• 1782[21:25:46] <hop> `dpkg -S $(which netstat)`
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• 1784[21:26:16] <shtrb> pff systemd-homed , then we will see what will be left of fhs or anyhthing else
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• 1786[21:26:28] <nkuttler> hop: dpkg -S $(readlink -f $(which netstat))
• 1787[21:26:51] <hop> nkuttler: that's entirely besides the point
• 1788[21:26:59] <nkuttler> not sure what your point is
• 1789[21:27:05] <tarzeau> if i wanted to use curl to post screenshots at screenshots.debian.net, what would the command be?
• 1790[21:27:05] <hop> and why are you no longer in my ignore list *rectify*
• 1791[21:27:10] <shtrb> nkuttler, if you wish to see some spoky stuff replaced-url
• 1792[21:27:20] <nkuttler> hop: there's no need to publicly announce your ignores
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• 1794[21:28:00] <shtrb> tarzeau, I base 64 my stuff , put it on paste.debian.net and then download and pass via base64 -d
• 1795[21:28:23] <tarzeau> shtrb: i have 400 screenshots i want to upload, but without interactive gui web browser
• 1796[21:29:01] <shtrb> You can use good old curl for that , in a script , the question is do you care about the urls , and if screenshot.debian.net is your expected destination
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• 1799[21:30:23] <tarzeau> shtrb: yes the destination is screenshots.debian.net i was able to find a per package url in the html source, and tried like 30 curl commands, and all failed
• 1800[21:30:40] <tarzeau> shtrb: so if you can come up with a working s.d.n curl command, i can improve it, otherwise i can't
• 1801[21:30:45] <shtrb> tarzeau , something like this curl -F "image=@path" -u username:password screenshots.debian.net (I don't have account there )
• 1802[21:30:59] <shtrb> I don't know the upload path for that site , sorry
• 1803[21:31:02] <tarzeau> shtrb: it's account less, anyone can upload. and that command i tried, it didn't work
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• 1807[21:32:49] <tarzeau> shtrb: the path is in action="/upload_image/photoflow" (or any other package name)
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• 1809[21:33:14] <tarzeau> but there's some nasty jquery javascript in there
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• 1812[21:34:03] <tarzeau> shtrb: it would be much easier if the webservers error.log was public
• 1813[21:34:21] <tarzeau> shtrb: then you could just look at the access.log of successful uploads
• 1814[21:34:33] <tarzeau> and maybe add some ngrep port 80 and be done with it
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• 1819[21:36:10] <nkuttler> tarzeau: could be a multi-file upload, then you'd have to submit a file list. you could use your browsers network inspector to look at browser upload requests
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• 1822[21:36:50] <tarzeau> nkuttler: ahhhh i'll use ngrep port 80 and host screenshots.debian.net do a successfull upload and DANG
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• 1824[21:37:10] <tarzeau> nkuttler: it might support multifile upload, i just need it for single files
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• 1829[21:39:06] <tarzeau> nothing with ngrep port 80 :(
• 1830[21:39:17] <tarzeau> ah forgot to use http instead of https
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• 1834[21:42:43] <movi> os there something going on in the main repo? i get a hash mismastch
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• 1844[21:52:37] <dob1> ,v hugo
• 1845[21:52:39] <judd> Package: hugo on amd64 -- stretch: 0.18.1-1+b2; buster: 0.55.6+really0.54.0-1; bullseye: 0.78.1-1; sid: 0.78.1-1
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• 1937[23:20:36] <alex11> uh... if i just got a security update for thunderbird do i also need to restart firefox-esr?
• 1938[23:21:44] <hop> alex11: there is a tool in debian-goodies named checkrestart that will list running processes that have delete files open
• 1939[23:21:58] <alex11> well i use needrestart
• 1940[23:22:01] <hop> but yes, usually you need to restart
• 1941[23:22:04] <alex11> and it does list firefox
• 1942[23:22:28] <alex11> but like... it's thunderbird, not firefox
• 1943[23:22:33] <alex11> not sure why it lists firefox
• 1944[23:22:37] <hop> sorry
• 1945[23:22:49] <hop> i don't do gui
• 1946[23:22:49] <alex11> i'll just ignore it
• 1947[23:22:54] <hop> i guess they share libraries
• 1948[23:23:09] <hop> or something
• 1949[23:24:07] <hop> maybe you overlooked a recent firefox update, and it's unrelated
• 1950[23:24:29] <jmcnaught> firefox-esr had a DSA on November 10th
• 1951[23:24:37] <alex11> yeah but i took care of that
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• 1954[23:25:27] <hop> can't hurt in any case, no?
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• 1956[23:25:56] <alex11> well i have a lot of tabs open :P
• 1957[23:26:32] <hop> i was under the empression that firefox knows how to recreate your session
• 1958[23:26:40] <hop> *impression
• 1959[23:27:05] <alex11> it... sort of
• 1960[23:27:11] <jmcnaught> Firefox has an option to restore previous session.
• 1961[23:27:12] <alex11> i haven't found under what conditions it does it
• 1962[23:27:43] <hop> isn't life exciting
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• 1964[23:28:48] <hop> alternatively: the things you own end up owning you
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• 1969[23:31:13] <alex11> you know what
• 1970[23:31:26] <alex11> if firefox just got an update and now thunderbird is getting one it's probably the same update
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• 1973[23:32:49] <hop> i'm not sure i follow
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• 1978[23:34:16] <alex11> i'll look at the dsa thing
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• 1980[23:36:45] <alex11> or sorry not dsa, cve
• 1981[23:37:20] <alex11> yeah it is
• 1982[23:37:35] <alex11> CVE-2020-26950 is for both thunderbird and firefox-esr
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• 1985[23:39:57] <alex11> so yeah firefox already got patched and i already restarted it so like
• 1986[23:40:01] <alex11> i'll just ignore this
• 1987[23:40:55] <hop> if it says restart, restart
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• 1989[23:41:47] <alex11> i almost never bother with those messages anyway, i only do it if needrestart prompts me to restart services
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• 1991[23:43:55] <n4dir> looks like this time you did bother.
• 1992[23:44:24] <hop> and it did tell you to restart…
• 1993[23:44:38] <hop> for various values of "service"
• 1994[23:44:42] <alex11> no - firefox isn't a service
• 1995[23:44:56] <hop> i'd make a case for it being a service
• 1996[23:45:18] <hop> but lets not break out the dictionary
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