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• 1[00:00:20] <another> maybe * matches v6 too?
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• 3[00:03:08] <buu> It's something on the client side
• 4[00:03:25] <buu> Something in windows or the vpn does not like large port numbers
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• 11[00:06:05] <jhutchins> An answer to an earlier question: to specify a port in ipv6, put the address in square brackets followed by the port [ip6address]:<port>
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• 32[00:14:25] <swift110> 55 packages can be upgraded. Run 'apt list --upgradable' to see them.
• 33[00:14:27] <swift110> N: Repository 'replaced-url
• 34[00:14:34] <swift110> how do I upgrade these packages
• 35[00:14:49] <ratrace> apt upgrade
• 36[00:15:03] <lnxslck> doesnt sudo apt'get upgrade work?
• 37[00:15:28] <swift110> i did apt get update but ill try upgrade as well
• 38[00:15:29] *** Joins: rgr (~rgr@replaced-ip)
• 39[00:15:54] <lnxslck> update is to get the new version of packages available on the repos
• 40[00:16:04] <lnxslck> upgrade is the one that actually upgrades your system
• 41[00:16:21] <swift110> lnxslck, ah, thanks
• 42[00:16:26] <ratrace> actually update only updates the catalogs
• 43[00:16:33] *** Joins: ecdhe (~ecdhe@replaced-ip)
• 44[00:16:38] <swift110> so I take it I can do && to do both at the same time?
• 45[00:17:01] <lnxslck> swift110: sudo apt update ; sudo apt upgrade
• 46[00:17:07] <swift110> nice thanks
• 47[00:17:08] *** Quits: shifty (~shifty~~~@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 48[00:17:17] <lnxslck> swift110: first day on debian?
• 49[00:17:29] <swift110> lnxslck, not at all
• 50[00:17:41] <swift110> Just a moment of confusion is all
• 51[00:18:12] <lnxslck> cool
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• 59[00:30:09] <sponix> swift110: yeah, it just does the .6 to .7 type point releases for you, nothing required
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• 64[00:35:31] <HelloShitty> peeps, I misused the command 'usermod'. I did `usermod -a -G myusername debian-tor`instead of `usermod -a -G debian-tor myusername`
• 65[00:35:36] <HelloShitty> Can I undo this?
• 66[00:35:50] <greycat> Easiest thing would be to edit the files by hand and fix whatever's wrong.
• 67[00:35:55] <greycat> vipw and vigr
• 68[00:36:23] <HelloShitty> ok, let me try
• 69[00:36:32] <greycat> also for future ref, if you were trying to add yourself to an existing group, Debian can do that with "adduser user group"
• 70[00:36:54] <HelloShitty> yes, I'm trying to add myself to debian-tor group
• 71[00:37:12] <HelloShitty> but adduser isn't to add an user that oesn't exist yet?
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• 74[00:39:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1188
• 75[00:39:44] <greycat> man adduser | grep -A2 'existing group'
• 76[00:40:05] *** Joins: Mazhive (~Mazhive@replaced-ip)
• 77[00:40:13] <ratrace> gpasswd -d debian-tor myusername
• 78[00:40:32] <HelloShitty> ok for both
• 79[00:40:35] <HelloShitty> thank you for both
• 80[00:40:46] <ratrace> delete user debian-tor from (supplementary) group myusername. reverts usermod -a -G myusername debian-tor
• 81[00:40:58] <HelloShitty> I opened vigr but not sure which line to delete
• 82[00:41:27] <HelloShitty> so going to use the gpasswd command
• 83[00:41:29] <ratrace> not whole line, just user debian-tor from group myusername
• 84[00:41:35] <HelloShitty> and logout and log back in
• 85[00:41:39] *** Quits: n4dir (~n4dir@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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• 87[00:42:13] <HelloShitty> ratrace: yes but there are 2 lines there and I'm not familiar with that file so I don't know which is the correct line to edit
• 88[00:42:56] <ratrace> lines in /etc/group start with group names, so you need to remove user debian-tor from the line that starts with (group) myusername
• 89[00:43:00] <ratrace> but really... gpasswd :)
• 90[00:43:05] <HelloShitty> yeah
• 91[00:43:10] <HelloShitty> gpasswd is better
• 92[00:43:33] *** Joins: x0n- (~x0n@replaced-ip)
• 93[00:43:42] <ratrace> (because there is also debian-tor group, there will be a line that starts with that, so I guess that confused you)
• 94[00:44:09] <HelloShitty> yes
• 95[00:44:12] <HelloShitty> exactly
• 96[00:44:22] <HelloShitty> I tried to copy from within vim those 2 lines
• 97[00:44:25] *** Quits: x0n (~x0n@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 98[00:44:35] <HelloShitty> but somehow it didn't copy to the system clipboard
• 99[00:44:58] <HelloShitty> I mean, copy the lines to paste here so that you could tell me which I should have edited
• 100[00:45:06] <ratrace> in gVim, there's a separate motion for system clipboard iirc.... or that's just register 0
• 101[00:45:12] <ratrace> (so normal yanking copies)
• 102[00:45:19] <HelloShitty> but it's done with gpasswd
• 103[00:45:28] <ratrace> in terminal vim (not x11 gVim), yanking won't copy to clipboard
• 104[00:45:34] <HelloShitty> I'm using vimGTK to have access to registers
• 105[00:45:41] <HelloShitty> I tried "+ and "*
• 106[00:45:42] <ratrace> aka gVim, then
• 107[00:45:59] <mason> jhutchins: Ah, glad you got it going. Printers are deeply frustrating for me.
• 108[00:46:14] <HelloShitty> ok, brb
• 109[00:46:18] *** Quits: HelloShitty (~psysc0rpi@replaced-ip) (Quit: leaving)
• 110[00:46:19] <ratrace> HelloShitty: 'sbeen a while since I gtk-vim'ed :) I do terminal vims only now
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• 113[00:49:34] *** Joins: Swift110-mobile (sid410914@replaced-ip)
• 114[00:49:45] <Swift110-mobile> thanks Space_Man
• 115[00:49:47] *** Joins: HelloShitty (~psysc0rpi@replaced-ip)
• 116[00:49:56] <Swift110-mobile> thanks sponix
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• 119[00:51:12] <HelloShitty> ratrace: so if I have this folder with the following stats: drwx--S--- 2 debian-tor debian-tor 4096 Dec 10 23:21 btc-service and I belong to debian-tor, shouldn't I be able to 'ls' it?
• 120[00:51:39] <ratrace> you need g+r for ls
• 121[00:52:28] <HelloShitty> that means to have a small cap 's' instead of the cap 'S', right?
• 122[00:52:57] <ratrace> that'd be setgid if I'm not mistaken, yes, which is in place of x
• 123[00:53:03] <ratrace> but you still need g+r
• 124[00:53:43] <HelloShitty> need to check that g+r. I on't remember that terminology
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• 127[00:53:56] <HelloShitty> s/on't/don't
• 128[00:53:59] <mrkramps> read for group
• 129[00:54:16] <HelloShitty> hum, ok
• 130[00:54:32] <ratrace> you have u+rwx, g+s
• 131[00:54:34] *** Quits: asymptotically (~asymptoti@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 132[00:54:45] <ratrace> to ls, you need g+r
• 133[00:55:46] <HelloShitty> drwxr-S---
• 134[00:56:14] <ratrace> right
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• 137[00:59:31] <HelloShitty> I'm afraid of this
• 138[00:59:42] <HelloShitty> because I'm not sure this is what I need
• 139[00:59:55] <ratrace> that's not an insane permission
• 140[01:00:07] <HelloShitty> the problem is that I'm not sure if settings are correct for this folder
• 141[01:00:15] <ratrace> owner may read and write, group may read and every file created in the dir will inherit group ownership, ie debian-tor
• 142[01:00:26] <HelloShitty> and when I run `tor --verify-config` I get a permission error
• 143[01:00:29] <ratrace> (and thus be readable to users in the group)
• 144[01:00:33] <HelloShitty> for that folder
• 145[01:00:50] <ratrace> well I'll admit I don't know tor's requirements there.... but the setup defo isn't insane
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• 147[01:01:10] <HelloShitty> And inside this folder are private keys of my bitcoin node onion address (I guess this is the correct wording)
• 148[01:01:32] <HelloShitty> I'm not sure I want anyone else to be able to read in this folder
• 149[01:01:42] <HelloShitty> this folder is owned by debian-tor
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• 151[01:02:02] <HelloShitty> and I need to be part of that group so that my bitcoin core client can read from there.
• 152[01:02:08] <ratrace> then don't put anyone in debian-tor group
• 153[01:02:47] <HelloShitty> But for some reason, when I run `tor --verify-config` I get that error about permissions
• 154[01:02:53] <HelloShitty> I think it shouldn't be the case
• 155[01:03:06] <HelloShitty> because I'm part of debian-tor goup
• 156[01:03:23] <HelloShitty> one other question I'm not completely sure about:
• 157[01:03:35] <mrkramps> you guess this shit without a howto?!
• 158[01:03:41] *** Quits: debsan (~debsan@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
• 159[01:04:21] *** Quits: Steeve (~steve@replaced-ip) (Quit: end)
• 160[01:04:25] <HelloShitty> running (1) sudo systemctl restart tor is exactly the same as running (2) systemctl restart tor and then put the password in the prompt with that comes up?
• 161[01:04:56] <mrkramps> nope, sudo is using sudo and the other one relies on polkit
• 162[01:05:03] <HelloShitty> mrkramps: no. I'm following their docs, but I'm getting different results from expected ones
• 163[01:06:03] <HelloShitty> so, when I reboot my laptop, tor starts itself, right?
• 164[01:06:09] <HelloShitty> Who's the user who starts it?
• 165[01:06:20] *** Quits: banox (~banox@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 166[01:06:25] <HelloShitty> I mean, I think it's debian-tor
• 167[01:06:59] <HelloShitty> So, when I run `tor --verify-config`I shouldn't have any permission issues because I am part ofdebian-tor group
• 168[01:07:53] *** Quits: jhutchins (~jonathan@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
• 169[01:07:54] <HelloShitty> but I get a permission error. This is the problem I was trying to unerstand and workaround if possible without compromising even the basic security that tor gives me
• 170[01:08:26] <HelloShitty> I'm going to logout an login again
• 171[01:08:28] <HelloShitty> brb
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• 180[01:12:49] <HelloShitty> ratrace: see: Dec 11 00:10:57.174 [warn] Directory /var/lib/tor/btc-service cannot be read: Permission denied.... <-- This is running `tor --verify-config` from my own username which is part of debian-tor group
• 181[01:13:24] <mrkramps> link to documentation?
• 182[01:13:28] <ratrace> HelloShitty: what's the permissions on the actual file in the dir?
• 183[01:13:45] <HelloShitty> And I'm not sure I can set read for that folder without compromising
• 184[01:13:50] <HelloShitty> ratrace: docs: replaced-url
• 185[01:14:19] <HelloShitty> I've been trying to use Method 2 at the bottom of that link ratrace
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• 191[01:14:54] <ratrace> HelloShitty: so you didn't set g+r on the dir?
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• 194[01:15:18] <HelloShitty> drwx--S--- 2 debian-tor debian-tor 4.0K Dec 10 23:21 btc-service
• 195[01:15:19] <ratrace> few moments ago you showed drwxr-S---
• 196[01:15:22] <HelloShitty> no, not yet
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• 201[01:15:26] <ratrace> HelloShitty: well duh!
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• 217[01:16:04] <HelloShitty> ratrace: I understand that. But docs never mention any changes in permissions and I didn't want to do anything out of the docs
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• 219[01:16:12] <HelloShitty> but I will try
• 220[01:16:12] <mrkramps> the docs say nothing about file permissions
• 221[01:16:32] <HelloShitty> mrkramps: indeed, so I shouldn't be supposed to mess with them
• 222[01:16:50] <lindylex> Trying to find where this is located commandline "gphoto2://Apple_Inc._iPhone_7fca57bb6eb3da01ca3ba3c5b1f2b393e83e8011/DCIM"
• 223[01:16:50] <ratrace> HelloShitty: then you have to enumerate what user (effective uid/gid) is actually trying to access it. so far I thought it was your user, in the debian-tor group
• 224[01:16:55] <HelloShitty> meaning that whatever it is there by default, should be ok
• 225[01:17:09] <mrkramps> yeah
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• 228[01:18:05] <HelloShitty> ratrace: yes, that's what docs say. That the user running bitcoin core shoul be in the group that is running Tor
• 229[01:18:20] <HelloShitty> They mention the step to add the user to debian-tor group
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• 234[01:19:03] <HelloShitty> ratrace: what you mean by 'enumerate'?
• 235[01:19:07] <ratrace> HelloShitty: okay. But I don't understand the use case there, I don't use tor so I don't know how that dir comes into play.
• 236[01:19:18] <mrkramps> ok, then user can do what group tor can, but group to cannot do what user can do
• 237[01:19:29] <ratrace> HelloShitty: I mean... you have to figure out which uid/gid is actually accessing the file. your user, some other service, what...
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• 240[01:19:41] <ratrace> becaues your user does NOT have permission to anything in that dir
• 241[01:19:58] <ratrace> you may be in the debian-tor group, but the permission does not allow read access into the dir, to the group
• 242[01:20:08] <HelloShitty> ok, I understand
• 243[01:20:15] <ratrace> I forgot if 's' implies 'x' too or you have to explicitly add it
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• 245[01:20:48] <mrkramps> 's' implies 'x' ... 'S' does not
• 246[01:20:50] <HelloShitty> From what I read, the folder needs to be "executable" for that bit 's' to take effect, otherwise it is set as 'S'
• 247[01:21:04] <HelloShitty> mrkramps: well said. That's it
• 248[01:21:22] <ratrace> the setgid is there so that if, say, root creates a file there, it would automagically be owned by root:debian-tor, and with default umask which allows the group to read, your user can read files creatd by root there
• 249[01:21:41] <HelloShitty> ok
• 250[01:21:45] <HelloShitty> going to do that then
• 251[01:22:32] <ratrace> that pattern is not unusual for high-security environments. usualyl it's root owned so nobody but root could alter, and group is there to allow reading of contents
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• 256[01:22:50] <ratrace> and you define who may read with group membership
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• 258[01:23:16] <ratrace> (there's also ACLs and thaen you have a mess )
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• 276[01:27:45] <HelloShitty> :|
• 277[01:28:07] <HelloShitty> I'm just going to try to change things for that specific folder
• 278[01:28:29] <HelloShitty> actually I created a test file there, and I'm playing around to make sure I'm oing things correctly
• 279[01:28:45] <HelloShitty> wrst case scenario I just delete the folder and re-create it with tor
• 280[01:29:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1169
• 281[01:30:34] <HelloShitty> so, I did this: sudo chmod 2710 /var/lib/tor/btc-service
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• 283[01:30:59] <carlino3> hello!
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• 285[01:31:33] <carlino3> i tried KDE plasma on arch and i loved it
• 286[01:31:40] <carlino3> do you think it is a good idea to install it on debian buster?
• 287[01:31:47] <ratrace> TIAS
• 288[01:31:48] <HelloShitty> and got this with `ls -lah /var/lib/tor/btc-service`:
• 289[01:31:49] <HelloShitty> $ ls -lah /var/lib/tor/btc-service
• 290[01:31:49] <HelloShitty> lstanley: cannot access '/var/lib/tor/btc-service': Permission denied
• 291[01:32:24] <ratrace> HelloShitty: right, so what are permissions on the last two elements of that path?
• 292[01:32:24] <Brigo> !TIAS
• 293[01:32:25] <dpkg> TIAS is "Try It And See".
• 294[01:32:37] <sney> carlino3: yes, kde plasma has been one of the main desktops available in debian for at least 5 years now. if you already have a buster system, try 'apt install task-kde-desktop'.
• 295[01:32:58] <carlino3> "try it without knowing if it will break anything and then cry if you screw up something"
• 296[01:33:05] <carlino3> that is what i'm trying to avoid lol
• 297[01:33:21] <HelloShitty> ratrace: last 2 elements? .../tor/btc-service ?
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• 299[01:33:31] <ratrace> carlino3: in general, software available in a Stable release has been tested for majority of use cases
• 300[01:33:34] <ratrace> HelloShitty: yes
• 301[01:33:38] <carlino3> sney: thanks, so i think i will do it
• 302[01:33:39] <sney> carlino3: that kind of problem is more common in arch land. one of debian's main goals is making sure stuff isn't broken out of the box.
• 303[01:33:48] <ratrace> HelloShitty: i'm assumig /var and /var/lib are regular 755
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• 305[01:34:19] <carlino3> great! thanks to all
• 306[01:34:28] <sney> np
• 307[01:34:28] <HelloShitty> ratrace: drwx--S--- 5 debian-tor debian-tor 4.0K Dec 11 00:32 tor
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• 310[01:35:02] <HelloShitty> drwxr-xr-x 52 root root 4.0K Dec 6 20:32 lib
• 311[01:35:19] <ratrace> you _still_ have no permission to read into /var/lib/tor
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• 313[01:35:25] <HelloShitty> so, I need to make it also 's' to toe
• 314[01:35:27] <HelloShitty> tor
• 315[01:35:42] <ratrace> yes and +r
• 316[01:36:03] <ratrace> the group must be able to read and "execute" the dir
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• 318[01:36:18] <HelloShitty> oh, ok
• 319[01:36:19] <mrkramps> drwxr-s---
• 320[01:36:25] <ratrace> also important is the permission on the last element, I'm assuming it's a file
• 321[01:36:57] <HelloShitty> drwxr-s--- 5 debian-tor debian-tor 4.0K Dec 11 00:36 tor
• 322[01:37:04] <ratrace> setgit and bad umask can render it invisible to your user
• 323[01:37:13] <HelloShitty> ratrace: yes, after .../btc-service/ is hostname file
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• 325[01:37:15] <ratrace> *setgid HelloShitty no, "btc-service" was last
• 326[01:37:31] <ratrace> and whats permissions on btc-service
• 327[01:37:43] <ratrace> when you access a file like that... ALL elements of a path are checked for permission
• 328[01:37:58] <HelloShitty> drwxr-s--- 2 debian-tor debian-tor 4.0K Dec 10 23:21 btc-service
• 329[01:38:14] <ratrace> see that's sane. and files inside?
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• 331[01:38:33] <HelloShitty> -rw------- 1 debian-tor debian-tor 23 Dec 10 23:21 hostname
• 332[01:38:47] <HelloShitty> that's inside btc-service
• 333[01:38:55] <ratrace> yea that's invisible to your user
• 334[01:39:07] <ratrace> only debian-tor USER can read it (and write it), but the group has no access
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• 336[01:39:16] <ratrace> your user, in debian-tor group, cannot access / read that file
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• 338[01:39:40] <HelloShitty> ok
• 339[01:39:42] *** Joins: yonder (~yonder@replaced-ip)
• 340[01:39:55] <ratrace> so chmod g+rs /var/lib/tor
• 341[01:40:00] <HelloShitty> will try to change it to see if `tor verify-config` returns success
• 342[01:40:12] <ratrace> and chmod g+r /var/lib/tor/..../hostname
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• 344[01:40:24] <HelloShitty> yeah
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• 346[01:42:38] <HelloShitty> ok, no good still
• 347[01:42:58] <HelloShitty> Dec 11 00:41:51.447 [warn] /var/lib/tor/btc-service is not owned by this user (psysc0rpi0n, 1000) but by debian-tor (116). Perhaps you are running Tor as the wrong user?
• 348[01:43:24] <HelloShitty> It still says that my user is not the same user that is running tor
• 349[01:43:41] <HelloShitty> anyway, this might not be problematic
• 350[01:43:47] <ratrace> no, the other way around
• 351[01:44:19] <ratrace> it says the file is not owned by the user running tor ..... although ti's a _warning_ ... dunno if that's suppose to be an error or not
• 352[01:44:31] <ratrace> I don't use tor so I can't tell you what it expects
• 353[01:44:53] <mrkramps> tor only checks for owner
• 354[01:44:53] <HelloShitty> yes, but after that line there are 2 more lines
• 355[01:44:54] <HelloShitty> Dec 11 00:41:51.447 [warn] Failed to parse/validate config: Failed to configure rendezvous options. See logs for details.
• 356[01:44:57] <HelloShitty> Dec 11 00:41:51.447 [err] Reading config failed--see warnings above.
• 357[01:45:18] <ratrace> that sounds like a completely separate issue :)
• 358[01:45:35] <HelloShitty> Is it possible to run this 'tor --verify-config` command as debian-tor instead of my user?
• 359[01:45:48] <ratrace> sudo -iu debian-tor tor --verify-config
• 360[01:45:49] <mrkramps> HelloShitty, do you have a local torrc for your user?
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• 363[01:46:15] <HelloShitty> mrkramps: no, torrc is the default one in /etc/tor/torrc
• 364[01:46:24] <HelloShitty> going to try ratrace
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• 366[01:47:13] <HelloShitty> well, can't see no output with that command, ratrace
• 367[01:47:59] <ratrace> is there a --verbose flag?
• 368[01:48:27] <HelloShitty> I set tor to send some output to a notices.log file
• 369[01:48:31] <HelloShitty> let me see if I can find it
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• 371[01:50:17] <HelloShitty> I can't see any errors in this file. But I think this is not the most critical file.There is a debug one that has tons of stuff and it's really really verbosy
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• 373[01:50:32] <HelloShitty> and they say to not use it because it leaks lots of information
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• 379[01:53:24] <HelloShitty> well, will give up for today
• 380[01:53:29] <HelloShitty> time to go to sleep
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• 382[01:53:43] <HelloShitty> thank you ratrace and mrkramps for the help given so far
• 383[01:53:52] <ratrace> np
• 384[01:54:10] <mrkramps> you're welcome
• 385[01:54:18] <HelloShitty> o/
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• 406[02:08:45] <f8e4> folks is true?: instead of make install; checkinstall ?
• 407[02:08:53] <f8e4> i keep the repo around anyway
• 408[02:09:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1163
• 409[02:09:05] <f8e4> make clean; then i can always make uninstall it right?
• 410[02:09:47] *** Quits: lindylex (~lex@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 411[02:10:19] <ratrace> ENOCONTEXT
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• 414[02:11:03] <f8e4> for git clone replaced-url
• 415[02:11:39] *** Joins: longears (longears@replaced-ip)
• 416[02:11:47] <ratrace> depends on particular Makefile. not all of them are neat and tidy or offer the uninstall target
• 417[02:13:32] *** Quits: hejux_0 (~hejux@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 418[02:13:43] <f8e4> ,v checkinstall
• 419[02:13:44] <judd> Package: checkinstall on amd64 -- jessie: 1.6.2-4; stretch: 1.6.2-4; buster-backports: 1.6.2+git20170426.d24a630-2~bpo10+1; bullseye: 1.6.2+git20170426.d24a630-2; sid: 1.6.2+git20170426.d24a630-2
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• 421[02:14:02] <f8e4> unable to locate ..
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• 423[02:14:33] <f8e4> backports how to get them
• 424[02:15:45] *** Quits: black_ant (~antilope@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
• 425[02:16:10] <f8e4> mmh use it at all; how to pkg simply
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• 429[02:18:35] <f8e4> got it;
• 430[02:18:55] <f8e4> but use it or not; what you recomend for github stuff after make ?
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• 432[02:19:46] <sney> checkinstall can sometimes produce a working deb package from a given source tree. afaik it requires autotools, and a lot of projects are moving away from autotools to use stuff like meson or ninja instead
• 433[02:20:48] <sney> I've never really bothered with it. /usr/local stuff is easily managed with stow (see /msg dpkg stow usage) and if I'm going to make a debian package, I'll make a real debian package
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• 438[02:23:23] <f8e4> nice; is .../stow/program-version literal?
• 439[02:23:39] <f8e4> or like stow/vim_v213
• 440[02:23:43] <sney> the latter
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• 444[02:31:16] <f8e4> sney this is LEGGIT!
• 445[02:32:14] <sney> yeah it's pretty handy
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• 452[02:41:36] <alex11> i still have to figure out how to use stow
• 453[02:41:41] <alex11> i feel very stupid
• 454[02:42:23] <sney> it's pretty straightforward if you're used to the ./configure;make;make install workflow. especially if you've ever adjusted the prefix or any of the other ./configure options.
• 455[02:42:38] <sney> outside of that it's probably not very intuitive
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• 458[02:51:18] <f8e4> where to put a ready built ide; eg intellij with its intel.sh start script?
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• 460[02:52:42] <sney> 3rd party stuff that works with the FHS goes in /usr/local; 3rd party stuff that doesn't work with the FHS and wants everything in 1 big directory goes to the /opt gulag.
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• 462[02:53:11] <sney> and then you symlink the start binary to somewhere in $PATH. it depends on what the program is. try stuff until it works.
• 463[02:53:13] <carlino3> so i installed kde plasma on debian buster
• 464[02:53:52] * sney prepares the "why is everything old" faq link
• 465[02:54:54] <carlino3> in the process i was asked about what greeter to use, sddm or the one that comes with debian
• 466[02:55:30] <carlino3> i left the default and nothing has changed, i can't see any option to use KDE in login screen. what should i do?
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• 469[02:57:24] <sney> there is an option in gdm3 to select the session. I don't use gdm3 so I don't know where it is, but there should be a drop down, either below the password field or in one of the corners
• 470[02:58:10] <sney> ah, according to google, there's a gear menu next to the 'sign in' button that should have it.
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• 472[02:58:38] <carlino3> sney i found it. the gear icon, difficult to find
• 473[02:58:39] <carlino3> thanks!
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• 499[03:26:24] <PipeItToDevNull> #debian-live is dead, so I will ask here for general ideas. I made a ISO using live-build but it fails to load a graphical interface on a Ryzen 3700x + 2070 super system, even with `nomodeset`. Is there a package or something I can add to this ISO so it works better on Ryzen/new GPUs?
• 500[03:26:58] <sney> probably a 5.8 or newer kernel, + firmware-amd-graphics
• 501[03:27:38] <sney> it's not unusual for buster-only systems to choke on ryzen hardware. backports/testing+ seems to be ok, on the other hand
• 502[03:30:46] <PipeItToDevNull> Do you think moving to testing/sid would be fine for this?
• 503[03:31:00] <PipeItToDevNull> It is a tool I am making for rescuing, just some basic tools
• 504[03:31:29] <sney> the testing freeze is in less than a month, so yes, it's pretty usable in its current state.
• 505[03:32:05] <sney> on the other hand, kernel packages are self-contained, and firmware blobs just need to be found in /lib/firmware to work.
• 506[03:32:26] <sney> so it's your call - use a buster-based live image with the upgraded kernel and firmware, or upgrade everything.
• 507[03:34:17] <PipeItToDevNull> I am checking on adding the mods first, before moving testing
• 508[03:34:43] <sney> !buster-backports
• 509[03:34:43] <dpkg> Some packages intended for Bullseye (Debian 11) but recompiled for use with Buster (Debian 10) can be found in the buster-backports repository. See replaced-url
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• 513[03:37:33] <PipeItToDevNull> meh, sid is one line and seems easier right now lol
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• 515[03:37:43] <PipeItToDevNull> Once 11 is out I can recompile
• 516[03:38:28] <sney> they say the best thing about using sid is, when it breaks, you get to keep all the pieces
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• 518[03:38:49] <PipeItToDevNull> lol, I have a stack running on sid because it has deluge 2.3
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• 550[04:13:11] <quadrathoch2> oO because of 1 package running sid
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• 552[04:14:32] <ectospasm> I stopped running sid when the powers that were decided to rebase the entire Haskell subsystem. I couldn't update my XMonad configuration for a month!
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• 555[04:19:35] <PipeItToDevNull> uga, live-build didnt respect the --distribution flag
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• 631[06:00:34] <PipeItToDevNull> I dont see the kernel, linux-base, in backports
• 632[06:00:44] <PipeItToDevNull> replaced-url
• 633[06:02:32] <jmcnaught> replaced-url
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• 635[06:03:18] <PipeItToDevNull> Yeah, thanks, I just found that
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• 801[09:42:24] <huma> how do i find out what build options are used for a particular package?
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• 805[09:45:41] <huma> very easy in arch: replaced-url
• 806[09:46:43] <huma> but not sure about how debian does it: replaced-url
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• 815[09:58:10] <Haohmaru> wouldn't that be in the source package?
• 816[09:58:17] <Haohmaru> or dev package
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• 832[10:15:13] <huma> Haohmaru: got it. it's in the rules file: replaced-url
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• 836[10:17:45] <huma> and build dependencies can be seen in a .dsc file: replaced-url
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• 840[10:22:38] <jsync> Maybe you like "continent" & #youtube in the #wb "matrix" channel.
• 841[10:22:40] *** rf-n00b_ is now known as rf-n00b
• 842[10:23:26] <jsync> Maybe you like civil conduct & #DoD in #youtube channel.
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• 845[10:25:48] <jsync> You need innovation & time to think about things.
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• 848[10:26:46] <ratrace> wth was that
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• 850[10:28:04] <jsync> "Troll" is an ethnicity.
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• 854[10:29:10] <JustASlacker> wasnt there an easy way to get different python versions running?
• 855[10:29:13] <JustASlacker> on debian 9
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• 858[10:30:36] <JustASlacker> think it was pyenv
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• 860[10:30:54] <ratrace> containers
• 861[10:31:27] <jsync> Maybe you like Technological functionality. I am Tribal Mayan. I am "Right".
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• 863[10:32:20] <jsync> "Suggestion".
• 864[10:33:31] <ratrace> !ops ^^^ chatbot
• 865[10:33:31] <dpkg> Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, abrotman, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen, SynrG, jm_, somiaj, jelly, petn-randall, bremner: ratrace complains about a problem (see above)
• 866[10:34:14] <jsync> I am too smart for my own good. I gave american government time to think.
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• 868[10:34:47] <jsync> #2525 & #232232
• 869[10:34:48] <judd> Bug replaced-url
• 870[10:35:06] <ratrace> oh good, now the bots are talking to each other
• 871[10:36:00] <jsync> Do you like technological compatibility? 32 Bit & 64 bit could be important.
• 872[10:36:19] <jsync> MSIGAMING
• 873[10:36:31] <jsync> Twitter.
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• 875[10:37:02] <jsync> replaced-url
• 876[10:37:28] <jsync> Friendly.
• 877[10:37:54] <jsync> replaced-url
• 878[10:38:09] <jsync> Maybe you like to read.
• 879[10:38:10] <niko> jsync: Could you stop this garbage ?
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• 881[10:38:42] <ratrace> it's a chatbot, requires some spanking by an op
• 882[10:39:13] <jsync> Find "Apollo Juez" within youtube, for a hint.
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• 885[10:39:46] <niko> well, if none are around i will step in
• 886[10:40:14] *** Quits: Prints (~333@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
• 887[10:40:38] <jsync> replaced-url
• 888[10:40:50] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o niko
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• 892[10:41:39] <ratrace> thanks
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• 946[11:34:42] <solrize> this is probably wrong place to ask (suggestions welcome) but if i want to 3d-print something, is there a decent FOSS cad program for that? preferably already in debian repo. very simple thing, a vacuum hose diameter adapter (two cylinders joined together), shouldn't need anything fancy. thanks
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• 949[11:38:01] <azeem> solrize: how about freecad?
• 950[11:38:12] <azeem> I've seen it mentioned in the 3d printing context I believe
• 951[11:38:25] <azeem> but I've never used it
• 952[11:38:56] <nkuttler> solrize: openscad could also interest you
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• 962[11:49:31] <solrize> thanks, will check
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• 965[11:53:49] <solrize> wow, installed openscad (it's way smaller than freecad) and it looks impressive at first glance. will play with it tomorrow and also with freecad. thanks again!! openscad can do stl export so that is a good sign. and it looks like you design the gizmo as pieces of code rather than with a gui, which is nice for someone like me
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• 984[12:07:37] <kombi> struggeling to get certbot on 10.6 even when installed via snap. What might I be missing?
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• 990[12:11:12] <vlt> Hello. I’m using nodm and its default configuration (NODM_USER=user, NODM_FIRST_VT=7, NODM_XSESSION=/etc/X11/Xsession). How can I get a second X session on VT8 and run a different command there than what I have in /home/user/.xsessionrc?
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• 1007[12:20:39] <ikonia> hopefully it's acceptable to ask a question about the buster arm build
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• 1011[12:21:47] <ikonia> I've just booted it on the pi4b, tried to apt update and I get the error "the value buster is invalid for apt:degault-release as such a release is not available in the sources
• 1012[12:22:19] <ikonia> normally you get this when apt.conf has a nonsense default value, but buster should be fine and is in the sources.list
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• 1014[12:22:33] <ikonia> is there something a bit different about the arm repo ?
• 1015[12:23:04] <ikonia> ahhh wait
• 1016[12:23:19] <ikonia> clock drift
• 1017[12:23:22] <ikonia> sorry
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• 1020[12:24:28] <Onepamopa> Guys, is there a way to determine which core and thread are a "pair"? I need this in order to set taskset cpuset properly. The processor is TR 3960x with 8 CCDs each with 3 cores/threads. lscpu reports: On-line CPU(s) list: 0-47; Thread(s) per core: 2; Core(s) per socket: 24; Socket(s): 1; NUMA node(s): 1
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• 1029[12:29:55] <Haohmaru> Onepamopa \o/
• 1030[12:30:07] <Onepamopa> ?
• 1031[12:30:13] <Haohmaru> ko staa ;P~
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• 1121[13:30:27] <f8e4> hi, is it safe to wrap chromium.sh with chromium_custom.sh and add --flags ?
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• 1129[13:39:54] <ratrace> "safe" from what?
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• 1131[13:40:27] <ratrace> I don't see why you couldn't execute chromium from a custom script of your own
• 1132[13:43:55] <f8e4> like the default launcher button should run the custom version with flags
• 1133[13:44:11] <f8e4> default app: chromium; but cannot set any flags in there
• 1134[13:44:25] <f8e4> eg if i click link and autoopen browser
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• 1138[13:46:48] <f8e4> afe from corrupting chromium startup
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• 1143[13:50:03] <jelly> f8e4: try it and see
• 1144[13:50:37] <jelly> make a backup of ~/.config/chromium if unsure
• 1145[13:50:54] <jelly> (but you already have a backup of your HOME, right? :-)
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• 1162[14:06:43] <hramrach> hello
• 1163[14:06:56] <hramrach> how do I verify the netinst stuff
• 1164[14:07:34] <hramrach> the installation guide says to download from replaced-url
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• 1228[15:10:03] <na> Hi! I'm building some software that requires qt5, and only includes instructions for ubuntu. They install ubuntu's qt5-default in order to pull in what they need. What's the modern equivalent to that on debian testing?
• 1229[15:11:35] <oxek> which software? ./configure should tell you if that's part of the building instructions
• 1230[15:11:46] <ikonia> modern equivalent ?
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• 1232[15:12:20] <na> oxek: fceux. They're using cmake. It just yells about not having qt stuff, it doesn't provide build instructions for debian testing
• 1233[15:12:37] <ikonia> what libraries is it missing
• 1234[15:12:51] <na> ikonia: There are old debian qt5-default packages kicking around, but I don't see any for current debian testing
• 1235[15:13:19] <ikonia> na: so the first question will be is the QT version you need even part of testing ?
• 1236[15:13:28] <ikonia> what libraries is it complaining about
• 1237[15:13:50] <na> It's complaining about not having the qt5 configuration files for cmake, on account of being cmake
• 1238[15:13:59] <na> It wants qt5 stuff
• 1239[15:14:19] <ikonia> qt5 stuff is not really going to help you work the packages
• 1240[15:15:03] <na> I'm trying to build something from source, and I'm working with instructions for ubuntu. I'm trying to translate those into valid instructions for debian
• 1241[15:15:08] <jelly> !debian-next
• 1242[15:15:08] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also replaced-url
• 1243[15:15:12] <jelly> na: ^ ask there
• 1244[15:15:13] <na> Ahhh
• 1245[15:15:18] <na> Thanks, sorry
• 1246[15:15:22] <jelly> no prob, bob
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• 1249[15:16:59] <jelly> ,v qt5-default
• 1250[15:17:00] <judd> Package: qt5-default on amd64 -- jessie: 5.3.2+dfsg-4+deb8u2; jessie-security: 5.3.2+dfsg-4+deb8u4; stretch: 5.7.1+dfsg-3+deb9u2; stretch-proposed-updates: 5.7.1+dfsg-3+deb9u2; stretch-security: 5.7.1+dfsg-3+deb9u2; buster-security: 5.11.3+dfsg1-1+deb10u3; buster: 5.11.3+dfsg1-1+deb10u4
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• 1254[15:17:46] <jelly> ,depends qt5-default
• 1255[15:17:47] <judd> Package qt5-default in buster/amd64 -- depends: qtbase5-dev, qtchooser (>= 55-gc9562a1-1~).
• 1256[15:20:46] <jelly> <ikonia> qt5 stuff is not really going to help you work the packages # what makes you think so, usually getting the build deps right allows for, well, building
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• 1301[16:09:27] <kayront> in nft, how do I refer to "the primary ip address of interface X" in the config? like (if:0) in pf (bsd)
• 1302[16:10:54] <jelly> kayront: if there's no answer, try the #Netfilter channel
• 1303[16:11:11] <kayront> noted jelly, thanks
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• 1319[16:23:22] <unborn> hi all, suddenly I have issues with latest net install - locales via terminal to set it up, no issues via physical connection = keyboard and monitor... - what I am doing wrong here or was something drastically changed on debian 10 since debian 9? - thanks for explanation
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• 1323[16:27:35] <ksk> unborn: hello. I am having problems parsing an error description from your posting.
• 1324[16:27:46] <ksk> Whats wrong, and what would you expect instead?
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• 1326[16:30:48] <unborn> well ksk I would normally regenerate locales with command which does work as physically at the machine but via ssh - it said ok and after reboot it messed up. I would expect from debian net install iso to not have any issues at all however I am human, may I do something wrong. (keep in mind that I use debian since debian 5 - Im old folk and I would not ask otherwise - it makes me look like an idiot)
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• 1328[16:31:40] <erle-> How do I prevent Debian from going to suspend from lock screen of login screen (GDM)?
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• 1335[16:33:15] <GNU\colossus> ,v mutt
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• 1337[16:33:16] <judd> Package: mutt on amd64 -- jessie: 1.5.23-3; jessie-security: 1.5.23-3+deb8u3; stretch: 1.7.2-1+deb9u3; stretch-proposed-updates: 1.7.2-1+deb9u3; stretch-security: 1.7.2-1+deb9u3; buster-security: 1.10.1-2.1+deb10u2; buster: 1.10.1-2.1+deb10u4; buster-backports: 2.0.2-1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 2.0.2-1; sid: 2.0.2-1
• 1338[16:33:35] <ksk> unborn: how can I possibly understand your issue, if all the details you give are "it messed up"
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• 1340[16:34:21] <ksk> unborn: what are you trying to do in the first place? You have a machine with broken locales - how does a netinstall fit into this context!?
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• 1345[16:45:31] <unborn> ksk - Im trying to install debian net install iso on to one of my laptops - used without display.. I think I've got it. thank you for your help.
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• 1348[16:48:40] <unborn> ,v apache
• 1349[16:48:41] <judd> No package named 'apache' was found in amd64.
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• 1351[16:49:42] <unborn> oh :)
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• 1356[16:51:24] <ksk> ,v apache2
• 1357[16:51:25] <judd> Package: apache2 on amd64 -- jessie: 2.4.10-10+deb8u12; jessie-security: 2.4.10-10+deb8u16; stretch: 2.4.25-3+deb9u9; stretch-security: 2.4.25-3+deb9u9; buster: 2.4.38-3+deb10u4; buster-security: 2.4.38-3+deb10u4; stretch-backports-sloppy: 2.4.43-1~bpo9+1; buster-backports: 2.4.46-1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 2.4.46-2; sid: 2.4.46-2
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• 1359[16:53:44] <unborn> ksk: that's why I said 'oh and smile' i enquired b0t directly and it did answer me correctly.
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• 1365[16:57:09] <n4dir> and in all those years you never ran in : ask questions the right way ?
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• 1385[17:17:26] <Sentinel> what are the odds that Debian 11 gets extended long term support?
• 1386[17:17:37] <Sentinel> you know, with the whole CentOS debacle
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• 1388[17:19:18] <ratrace> define "Extended". an LTS effort already exists
• 1389[17:20:13] <jelly> Sentinel: right now, LTS and ELTS are managed by a team different than Debian Security Team, and they rely on donations
• 1390[17:21:02] <jelly> odds for LTS to exist for the duration of 5 years after bullseye (Debian 11) is out seem decent
• 1391[17:21:27] <Sentinel> cool
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• 1393[17:21:37] <jelly> odds for ELTS depends a lot on how many companies buy the ELTS level of support
• 1394[17:22:14] <Sentinel> I guess this is a bit premature given bullseye is still like 9 months out from being released or w/e
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• 1396[17:22:28] <jelly> you need at least "silver" LTS level, and then a variable amount for ELTS depending on how many and which packages you need supported
• 1397[17:23:31] <jelly> !lts
• 1398[17:23:32] <dpkg> Debian Long Term Support (LTS) is a project to extend the lifetime of all Debian stable releases to (at least) 5 years. Debian LTS is not handled by the Debian security team, but by a separate group of volunteers and companies. Ask me about <jessie-lts> and <stretch-lts> and see replaced-url
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• 1420[17:39:36] <sjd> Anyone have a recommended server host near the chicago area?
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• 1450[17:59:54] <freebench__> hi, trying to setup apt to use proxy. I'd add this to apt.conf HTTPS_PROXY=[username]:[password]@[proxy-web-or-IP-address]:[port-number]
• 1451[18:00:10] <freebench__> how should it be if there is no authentication
• 1452[18:00:31] <ksk> HTTPS_PROXY=[proxy-web-or-IP-address]:[port-number]
• 1453[18:00:50] <ksk> which translates to "HTTPS_PROXY=127.0.0.1:1234" for example
• 1454[18:00:57] <freebench__> I see, thx
• 1455[18:01:07] <freebench__> what is correct location of the apt.conf ?
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• 1461[18:03:06] <ksk> freebench__: to find out something like that yourself: search manapges via "apropos apt.conf" -> this leads you to "apt.conf (5)" -> enter "man 5 apt.conf"
• 1462[18:03:11] <ksk> which then will tell you the corrept path ;)
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• 1465[18:03:39] <ksk> (ps: its not that surprising)
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• 1470[18:05:16] <freebench__> ksk, each day smtg new. thanks
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• 1473[18:06:04] <ksk> !next
• 1474[18:06:04] <dpkg> Another happy customer leaves the building.
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• 1503[18:27:25] <duude__> Hey people. Please give me ideas which dirs to exclude for rsync of the entire /.
• 1504[18:27:26] <duude__> So far the only ideas I had is /dev and /proc. What else?
• 1505[18:27:37] <greycat> /sys
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• 1507[18:28:43] <mutante> duude__: most of the time I just opt-in and do /home and /etc , then dpkg --get/set-selections to install the same packages on both sides
• 1508[18:28:50] <duude__> Perhaps /boot and /tmp could go too
• 1509[18:29:06] <duude__> mutante: o
• 1510[18:29:10] <duude__> that sounds like a better solution ngl
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• 1513[18:30:10] <duude__> mutante: Isn't /var important too though?
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• 1515[18:31:26] <greycat> /var is 3rd most important after /etc and /home
• 1516[18:31:28] <mutante> duude__: dpkg --get-selections > somefile; scp somefile to other host; dpkg --set-selections < somefile ... that first and then rsync of /etc and /home I should have said. (or use something like puppet or chef to automate it in the first place)
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• 1518[18:32:00] <mutante> duude__: depends what is installed. if there was a database then there would be an additional "mysqldump .." copy dump file and read from the dump
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• 1520[18:32:04] <greycat> though to be fair it really depends on the system; for some, /usr/local may be very important to preserve
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• 1522[18:32:18] <mutante> yes, very much "depends". that is right
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• 1526[18:33:46] <mutante> /usr/local could have stuff especially if people manually compile/install stuff, but in that case it might be helpful to try and get away from that model of installing software to make this kind of thing easier
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• 1529[18:35:27] <mutante> if it's a webserver then you probably want /var/
• 1530[18:35:37] <mutante> as greycat already said.. ack
• 1531[18:36:03] <greycat> Really what's important is that you KNOW what you have on your system, and where it lives, and how to back it up and restore it.
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• 1534[18:37:19] <greycat> You might have commercial apps in /opt that would be annoying to reinstall, or a bunch of content in /srv, or databases of various kinds....
• 1535[18:37:25] <freem> since there might be important stuff in /src and /opt too? Somehow, I wonder why DBs install themselves in /var and custom softwares in /usr
• 1536[18:37:53] <greycat> traditionally /usr is mostly-read-only and /var is frequently modified stuff
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• 1538[18:38:20] <mutante> I have found myself before thinking "well.. where does frequently start"
• 1539[18:38:25] <freem> I mean, I'd think /srv is meant for storage servers, and DB daemons are some sort of daemon? As for /opt, it seems to be for the same thing as /usr/local?
• 1540[18:38:27] <greycat> (log files, databases, mail queues, print job spools, etc.)
• 1541[18:38:57] <freem> s/daemon/server/
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• 1543[18:39:08] <greycat> mutante: some people mount /usr readonly and only change it to rw when they want to update/install something
• 1544[18:39:18] <mutante> doesn't /opt mean optional? so that would mean it's not needed and you don't have to back it up ?:p
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• 1547[18:39:51] <freem> One could argue most softwares on a system are optional :D
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• 1549[18:40:05] <mutante> greycat: makes sense! Yea, you summed it up good that the most important part is to know what is installed where.
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• 1553[18:41:21] <quadrathoch2> freem what i learned is, /usr/local is for 3rd party which integrates into linux directory structure, /opt is where software is dumped, (where it's literally 1 directory)
• 1554[18:41:53] <freem> I see. Can make sense, I suppose.
• 1555[18:43:52] <freem> I suppose /opt have another difference: it's not in $PATH, especially for init.d scripts (I had the nice surprise someday, after having run a script to have all busybox binaries "extracted" as symlinks in /usr/local/bin, several broke. It's probably not important anymore)
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• 1557[18:44:20] <cousin_luigi> Greetings.
• 1558[18:44:31] <greycat> If you're writing your own boot scripts or services, you should typically expect you'll have to set PATH yourself.
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• 1560[18:44:40] * cousin_luigi has not played with cron in a long while
• 1561[18:44:42] <greycat> And perhaps several other variables as well.
• 1562[18:44:51] <freem> greycat: yep, but that was *not* in my scripts :)
• 1563[18:45:06] <cousin_luigi> I don't understand why run-parts wont work on a custom script: does it have to follow a particular format?
• 1564[18:45:11] <greycat> it's a common error
• 1565[18:45:12] <freem> I was never fond of those horrible things...
• 1566[18:45:31] <greycat> run-parts has a man page that tells you what the restrictions are on the filenames that it will process
• 1567[18:45:56] <greycat> the big one is "no dots"
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• 1573[18:48:50] <cousin_luigi> greycat: I can't find anything about it.
• 1574[18:49:00] <greycat> what is the name of your file?
• 1575[18:49:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1205
• 1576[18:49:47] <cousin_luigi> uh oh, the link contained a dot ^_^
• 1577[18:49:48] <cousin_luigi> thanks:)
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• 1616[19:28:35] <hramrach> how do I verify the netinst stuff?
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• 1618[19:28:39] <hramrach> the installation guide says to download from replaced-url
• 1619[19:29:27] <nkuttler> there are the md5/sha256 sums
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• 1621[19:30:12] <hramrach> but not signatures
• 1622[19:30:26] <mutante> verify and checksum are separate things. for Debian packages both are a thing but for installer itself I guess just checksums?
• 1623[19:30:34] <nkuttler> the checksums are signed
• 1624[19:30:59] <hramrach> by what? I do not see a signature file in the directory
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• 1626[19:31:02] <nkuttler> should be.. replaced-url
• 1627[19:31:20] <hramrach> that's only for CDs, not installer
• 1628[19:31:20] <mutante> ah, yea, i was also missing inline sig or a sig file
• 1629[19:32:04] <greycat> if your "installer" is not part of a CD image, then you probably belong in
• 1630[19:32:05] <greycat> !d-i
• 1631[19:32:05] <dpkg> Information about the development of the debian-installer is at the developers page replaced-url
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• 1634[19:32:51] <hramrach> I do not want to develop it. I want to download and verify integrity of the net installer so that I can securely install Debian
• 1635[19:33:17] <oznt> is there anyone here familiar with debops?
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• 1643[19:36:24] <greycat> the netinst *is* a CD image
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• 1646[19:38:00] <hramrach> not *that* CD image. the mini.iso and tftpboot.tar
• 1647[19:38:42] <gnat_x> hramrach: look here replaced-url
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• 1649[19:39:15] <gnat_x> oh, netboot, not netinst.
• 1650[19:41:26] <greycat> This must be some method of installation I've never seen. *shrug*
• 1651[19:41:48] <hramrach> tftp, never heard of that?
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• 1655[19:42:22] <gnat_x> hramrach: you're talking about replaced-url
• 1656[19:43:19] <hramrach> not sure where that link points to, the web page has two columns side by side
• 1657[19:43:38] <gnat_x> how about the one labeled "Network Boot"
• 1658[19:43:49] <hramrach> replaced-url
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• 1661[19:46:04] <gnat_x> hramrach: okay, so you are, in fact talking about "netboot" which which is a subset "netinst"
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• 1663[19:47:33] <gnat_x> and in general, not worth it if it can be avoided. unless you're doing more than a couple machines, or your target machine does not have a usb input, i've never found it to be worth the additional trouble invovled with BOOTP.
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• 1669[19:51:38] <JustASlacker> thats kinda awkward in debian
• 1670[19:51:52] <JustASlacker> the kickstart stuff on redhat is way easier to netboot
• 1671[19:51:53] <hramrach> gnat_x: I laready have the server set up. I only want to put the Debian installation file on it
• 1672[19:53:25] <hramrach> I don't think it's particularly awkward unless you have a piece of hardware with serious netboot bug like a SGI mips machine
• 1673[19:53:47] <hramrach> the only awkward part is that the files lack a signature
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• 1675[19:55:51] <JustASlacker> well, it is if you want to set ip addresses and such
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• 1678[19:56:25] <hramrach> you need to set up those anyway if you want to have networking
• 1679[19:57:03] * JustASlacker shrugs
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• 1682[19:58:29] <gnat_x> hramrach: i don't know why these mirrors dpm
• 1683[19:58:33] <gnat_x> woops
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• 1685[19:58:50] <gnat_x> i don't know why these mirrors don't have the .sign file in the dir.
• 1686[19:58:53] <gnat_x> it should be there.
• 1687[19:59:43] <hramrach> JustASlacker: what does kickstart have to do with anything? It is installation automation once the installer is running.
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• 1690[20:01:20] <hramrach> gnat_x: Looking at the Release file it seems it has checksum for the installer checksum files and is signed. So you can check Release, check sum file, check installer file which is rather baroque scheme.
• 1691[20:01:50] <hramrach> Is there some tool for downloading these files?
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• 1694[20:03:46] <JustASlacker> you usually configure a kickstart file and give it to the kernel on pxe boot
• 1695[20:04:17] <JustASlacker> for setting up disk partitions or networking and all the things
• 1696[20:04:34] <JustASlacker> like here: replaced-url
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• 1702[20:05:23] <JustASlacker> its been a while but FAI wasnt that flexible
• 1703[20:05:34] <JustASlacker> looks like that might have changed with buster tho
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• 1705[20:05:55] <JustASlacker> and I guess nowadays you would try to use cloudinit, I guess
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• 1710[20:07:36] <dob1> I would like to know if I can get a more accurate position in browsers that use geolocation api. Have I to install some services? (no gpsd doesn't, I just tried)
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• 1729[20:26:23] <rjpower4> Question: Given a application launcher in $HOME/.local/share/applications that calls a binary in $HOME/.local/bin where $HOME/.local/bin is added to the path in $HOME/.profile (and I've checked is available on a login shell), why is it not found when attempting to launch from the desktop launcher menu? Does that not source $HOME/.profile?
• 1730[20:26:47] <greycat> My guess? Because you did not actually login with a shell.
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• 1733[20:27:25] <greycat> If you logged in with a GUI (DM), dot in your ~/.profile from your ~/.xsessionrc file. Which you may need to create. Also make sure your .profile is sh syntax only.
• 1734[20:27:40] <GNU\colossus> also, ~/.pam_environment
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• 1739[20:29:51] <greycat> You will not be able to make modifications to PATH in .pam_environment unless you completely override it, and hard-code the name of your home directory.
• 1740[20:31:08] <rjpower4> Ah, of course, the dotting in the .profile did it. Thanks y'all!
• 1741[20:32:28] <greycat> also, user_readenv is OFF by default, so you would have to reconfigure PAM to enable reading ~/.pam_environment which still has the horribly crippling limitations of /etc/environment
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• 1743[20:32:46] <greycat> all of these things are reasons why nobody actually uses it
• 1744[20:32:56] * greycat removes the .pam_environment file he just tested with
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• 1747[20:36:48] <f8e4> folks where do you put jwt tokens, in script or env/bashrc ?
• 1748[20:37:16] <greycat> dpkg: jwt
• 1749[20:37:16] <dpkg> greycat: bugger all, i dunno
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• 1751[20:37:50] <f8e4> passwords & sensitive stuff;
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• 1754[20:38:31] <f8e4> jwt: is an access token in json
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• 1760[20:45:19] <jmcnaught> For GNOME/GDM on buster it looks like ~/.profile is run by bash at login. I put replaced-url
• 1761[20:45:31] <jmcnaught> And it was there.
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• 1763[20:45:34] <greycat> jmcnaught: wayland might do that, X will not
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• 1765[20:45:51] <greycat> and I wouldn't expect it to be executed by bash; more likely by sh
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• 1767[20:46:45] <jmcnaught> Would '[ -n "$BASH_VERSION"]' be true if it was sh?
• 1768[20:47:22] <greycat> I'd just log the contents of BASH_VERSION if you're testing that.
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• 1773[20:49:19] <jmcnaught> Good point, it's "5.0.3(1)-release"
• 1774[20:49:50] <greycat> So it really does run bash? Weird.
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• 1777[20:50:31] <greycat> I continue to be baffled by GNOME.
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• 1784[20:52:06] <jmcnaught> It does not seem to leave bash running though. If I open the task manager thing there is no bash process until I open a terminal emulator.
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• 1786[20:53:02] * greycat wonders why the Wayland advocacy club is incapable of documenting basic shit like "what programs get run, and files get read, during login".
• 1787[20:53:43] <freem> is it really related to wayland, or just to gnome's wayland server?
• 1788[20:53:54] <greycat> but hell, let's just make it the "default" choice in the installer, without telling anyone how it works, what could possibly go wrong
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• 1793[20:59:47] <ratrace> greycat: the idea is, programs that don't support the protocol would transparently use xorg via xwayland
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• 1795[21:00:44] <greycat> OK, but how about documenting the files that are read during login, and how to customize your environment?
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• 1797[21:01:46] <greycat> If you really want to see 'em squirm, ask them how to customize your locale in GNOME, e.g. to have a LANG variable set to one thing, but an LC_COLLATE set to C.
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• 1805[21:04:44] <ratrace> huh.... indeed.... ~/.xsess* stuff is no longer sourced, amirite?
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• 1879[22:21:44] <infinmed> what is the preferred way to recompile debian like in gentoo?
• 1880[22:22:01] <infinmed> like emptyimg tree in emerge
• 1881[22:22:12] <infinmed> emptying*
• 1882[22:23:06] <infinmed> other than using gentoo
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• 1885[22:26:13] <gnat_x> infinmed: generally people use debian to avoid compiling as much as possible.
• 1886[22:28:40] <dob1> and ppl use gentoo to compile as much as they can ? :)
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• 1888[22:29:39] <gnat_x> maybe my undertanding is outdated, but my understanding is that everything in gentoo is compiled.
• 1889[22:30:04] <dob1> I remember that to compile openoffice years ago took like 20 hours (it was not me but a person I know)
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• 1891[22:30:11] <gnat_x> like emerg is just an engine to direct recompile.
• 1892[22:30:41] <gnat_x> the only people i knew who ran it, ran it on work machines that they could leave updating over the weekend.
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• 1894[22:31:36] <dob1> maybe now with recent computer, ssd, faster ram the compile time is heavily reduced for every program
• 1895[22:31:52] <gnat_x> infinmed: but if you just want to know how to update what's there, the answer is read about apt.
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• 1908[22:43:53] <greycat> Debian is a binary distribution. The overwhelming majority of people download binary packages for use. If you want to compile *one* package, you can do that. It's one by one. Each package it totally separate, and is built totally separately. There is no concept of "make world".
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• 1910[22:45:13] <format_c> I also came from Gentoo to Debian and I found is soooo blessing. Everything worked right away w/o any special configuration and installing packages is sooo fast..
• 1911[22:45:26] <greycat> If your goal is "I want to rebuild every single package with this obscure set of C compiler optimizing flags so things run 0.3% faster", Debian is not for you.
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• 1913[22:50:06] <trui> me a couple days ago: 'i use lxqt so it doesn't matter to me whether xfce beats the freeze or not. lxqt needs a maintainer anyways'
• 1914[22:50:40] <trui> someone, i forget who: 'why not use lxde?' me: 'oh, i felt lxqt looked better'.
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• 1917[22:51:06] <mutante> googled "Gentoobian" just to check if that's a thing
• 1918[22:51:44] <trui> today: *tries out lxde and finds out it uses openbox. sees openbox desktop on the login screen. clicks*
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• 1920[22:52:02] <trui> after realizing it wasn't frozen, it's just minimalistic, i like it! :D
• 1921[22:52:03] <OneLegend> fun
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• 1923[22:52:22] <trui> maybe i'll just use openbox, haha.
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• 1925[22:53:53] <gnat_x> trui: i think the main reason to use lxde over openbox is how much you rely on a lot of common shortcuts, and whether you want to learn the openbox ones, configure them in openbox, or make lxde be less in the way/ugly.
• 1926[22:54:11] <gnat_x> but i haven't tried plain openbox in a while.
• 1927[22:56:55] <trui> i might end up with lxde, but it'd be nice to configure a middle ground between the two.
• 1928[22:57:39] <trui> lmao, i've got ten million krita menu entries. this is why i should stop trying out new desktops.
• 1929[22:57:48] <gnat_x> yeah. what don't you like about lxde? i set up a machine that i've ended up using a lot, and have spent way more time messing with it than i had planned.
• 1930[22:58:34] <trui> oh, there's nothing wrong with it, but if openbox ends up running cooler than lxde+openbox, that'd be a bonus
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• 1933[22:59:06] <trui> i just figured lxqt/lxde were my main options earlier. i didn't realize just using openbox could work
• 1934[22:59:32] <dob1> there is a distribution, unfortunately I don't remember the name, that has a very nice customization of openbox as default
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• 1937[23:00:09] <rjpower4> I think ArcoLinux has one
• 1938[23:00:13] <dob1> you could just copy most of the config files they have created and use on your openbox... but I don't remember this one
• 1939[23:00:23] <gnat_x> there is (was?) crunchbang which had an openbox default iirc.
• 1940[23:00:45] <n4dir> was, but i think now there is a community fork of it. Or was.
• 1941[23:00:57] <dob1> gnat_x, it's the successor bunsenlabs
• 1942[23:00:59] <dob1> found it
• 1943[23:01:52] *** Quits: sammi`_ (~qw@replaced-ip) (Quit: Lost terminal)
• 1944[23:02:12] <infinmed> ok
• 1945[23:02:21] <trui> sounds neat. i probably only need a few shortcuts to my main applications though.
• 1946[23:02:29] <trui> which is very individual
• 1947[23:02:40] <dob1> tint2 is imho needed
• 1948[23:02:53] <infinmed> so wanted that native compile and non exec stack and stack protector strong amd no plt and stuff in one command but ok
• 1949[23:03:35] <infinmed> hard to compile gentoo from phone
• 1950[23:03:37] *** Parts: infinmed (infinmed@replaced-ip) ()
• 1951[23:03:43] *** Joins: pfred1 (~pfred1@replaced-ip)
• 1952[23:04:02] <trui> ah, that's useful if i ever get tired of not having a panel. thanks, dob1
• 1953[23:04:56] *** Quits: dirdi (~dirdi@replaced-ip) (Quit: leave)
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• 1959[23:08:54] <trui> i installed it now actually since i accidentally minimized a window, haha.
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• 1963[23:10:41] <dob1> trui, there are a lot of shortcut on openbox, you can look at rc.xml to costumize / learn them
• 1964[23:10:51] *** Joins: ax5623 (~ax562@replaced-ip)
• 1965[23:13:26] <trui> found it. thanks again
• 1966[23:13:55] *** Joins: Prints (~333@replaced-ip)
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• 1968[23:15:04] <trui> yeah, this looks like it should work out fine, especially with tint2. it's nice that debian is so stable that i actually feel up to tweaking/playing with stuff like this. :)
• 1969[23:15:19] *** Joins: BillyZane (~riz@replaced-ip)
• 1970[23:15:23] <BillyZane> hello
• 1971[23:16:04] <ratrace> Billeh!
• 1972[23:16:13] <BillyZane> hi ratrace :)
• 1973[23:16:17] *** Quits: noobineer (~noobineer@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
• 1974[23:16:28] *** Quits: martinus__ (~martin@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 1975[23:16:58] <BillyZane> so i want to run my first server, but my hardware right now is limited. i only got 1 PC
• 1976[23:17:11] <mrkramps> vm
• 1977[23:17:26] <BillyZane> so i want to run a server, a file server, and a desktop
• 1978[23:17:37] *** Quits: geowiesnot (~user@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
• 1979[23:17:41] <dob1> a file server is a bit generic
• 1980[23:17:46] <BillyZane> what type of topology do you guys recommend?
• 1981[23:18:03] <BillyZane> dob1, i was thinking of having two 3TB disks in raid 1
• 1982[23:18:36] <mrkramps> why a file server if there is only one pc?
• 1983[23:18:52] <mutante> "server" really just means it's running something that .. serves something. It doesn't mean you need special hardware or a very powerful machine.
• 1984[23:19:15] <BillyZane> well i was thinking of being able to stream movies with plex
• 1985[23:19:27] <BillyZane> and also be able to stream over the internet on occasion
• 1986[23:19:39] *** Joins: Guest57867 (~glyn@replaced-ip)
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• 1988[23:20:20] <mutante> I think your biggest concern should be the Internet connection it's hooked up to.
• 1989[23:20:29] <mrkramps> yep
• 1990[23:20:37] <gnat_x> BillyZane: okay, so you want a server that you can on occaision sit down in front of, but mainly use other devices... or is this going to be your main computer.
• 1991[23:20:52] <BillyZane> this will be my main computer for the time being
• 1992[23:21:02] <gnat_x> and yeah, interent connection will be the main issue when you start streaming (off your local network)
• 1993[23:21:09] <BillyZane> but i also want to be able to use it as a desktop on occassion. like a VM would be fine
• 1994[23:21:20] *** Joins: geowiesnot (~user@replaced-ip)
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• 1996[23:21:35] <BillyZane> my upload speed isn't that great. it's fine though, it's mostly a plus if i can stream
• 1997[23:21:49] <BillyZane> i just wanted to be able to stream to 1 other person over the internet if possible
• 1998[23:22:05] <BillyZane> i was thinking of maybe re-encoding the video as well
• 1999[23:22:08] <dob1> to stream on internet, it means for you when you are not at home? for other people?
• 2000[23:22:21] <mutante> having a server that additionally has a graphical UI is not an issue
• 2001[23:22:26] <dob1> something public or private?
• 2002[23:22:34] <BillyZane> it would be private
• 2003[23:22:42] <dob1> so consider a vpn
• 2004[23:22:46] <gnat_x> hrm. for simplicity i might do a VM for the server stuff, and let the desktop stuff run on bare metal.
• 2005[23:22:50] <mutante> it's mostly just if you have the connection for it..data and latency
• 2006[23:22:56] <BillyZane> dob1, i have a vpn as well
• 2007[23:22:57] <ratrace> BillyZane: so basically you just want to make a bunch of mp4 (or whatever format) files available for download to someone? because streaming implies something else really
• 2008[23:23:11] *** Joins: Paraquat (~333@replaced-ip)
• 2009[23:23:18] <gnat_x> that way you can put the server storage in a separate FS from your system, and also it will get its own addressing.
• 2010[23:23:22] <ratrace> a VM is not a blanket solution, it has resource overhead
• 2011[23:23:22] <mutante> ,retroshare
• 2012[23:23:46] <BillyZane> well the streaming thing isn't really my top priority, it's just an example of something i would use the server for
• 2013[23:24:17] *** Quits: Prints (~333@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
• 2014[23:24:18] <gnat_x> ratrace: i know it isn't, but i think that running VMs on a desktop system is a reasonable way to separate things out.
• 2015[23:24:25] <BillyZane> so, i would be running a server, perhaps streaming to my phone over wifi
• 2016[23:24:39] <ratrace> gnat_x: yes, assuming separation is needed to begin with
• 2017[23:24:44] <dob1> in that case you just need, for example, minidlna and vlc on your phone
• 2018[23:24:48] *** Quits: freebench__ (~freebench@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
• 2019[23:24:58] <ratrace> my workstation is also a server for my home. I don't VM the server part.
• 2020[23:25:02] <ratrace> there's no reason to
• 2021[23:25:20] <ratrace> and with taht I have much better resource control, and no loss in security.
• 2022[23:25:41] <mutante> both "PC" and "server" are not vey well defined terms
• 2023[23:25:51] *** Quits: Jerrynicki (~niklas@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2024[23:26:00] <BillyZane> what i'm really wondering is, is it possible to run 'X' on a VM on top of debian without 'X'
• 2025[23:26:08] <mutante> originally PC just meant "has 1 user" instead of sharing it
• 2026[23:26:35] <ratrace> BillyZane: yes. question is do you really want that
• 2027[23:26:38] <dob1> BillyZane, imho there is no reason to do this
• 2028[23:26:40] <ratrace> !xy
• 2029[23:26:40] <dpkg> Slow down for a bit! Are you sure that you need to jump through that particular hoop to achieve your goal? We suspect you don't, so why don't you back up a bit and tell us about the overall objective... We know that people often falsely diagnose problems because they are too close to them -- it's easy to miss that there is a better way to proceed. See replaced-url
• 2030[23:26:42] *** Joins: somazero (~somazero@replaced-ip)
• 2031[23:26:54] <gnat_x> ratrace: that's a reasonable solution, though i tend to create, move, and destroy some things too often.
• 2032[23:27:29] *** Joins: noobineer (~noobineer@replaced-ip)
• 2033[23:27:33] <BillyZane> ratrace, i dunno, i could maybe not do that and just get a second PC
• 2034[23:27:39] *** Quits: somazero (~somazero@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 2035[23:27:48] <mutante> it's not like "remove X" will make the streaming server serve more users.. at least I don't think so
• 2036[23:28:11] <gnat_x> BillyZane: yes, you can do that, but there is no good reason to, and lots of good reasons not to. i think what we're disagreeing on is whether to put the "server" parts on a VM.
• 2037[23:28:47] <BillyZane> my hardware btw: i have a thinkserver TS140 with an an intel xeon E3-1280 v3 (VT-x VT-d enabled), and i'm looking to max out the ram to about 32gb or maybe 16gb
• 2038[23:28:51] <mrkramps> and the server part would not neccessarily include the files
• 2039[23:28:57] <mutante> so trying to tune it by removing X to "turn it into a server" to then add stuff again to "sometimes use it as a desktop" seems like a waste.. you can just install X and not auto-start it and type "startx" yourself on those occasional days
• 2040[23:29:19] <BillyZane> gnat_x, i was also thinking of running xen
• 2041[23:29:37] <gnat_x> i've only stress tested icecast a long time ago, but we hit bottleneck with network before system resources when we added users.
• 2042[23:30:14] <BillyZane> mutante, i see
• 2043[23:30:27] <mutante> Yea, i mean there is "icecast for raspberry" which shows the whole hardware thing is not relevant
• 2044[23:30:32] <mutante> just the connection
• 2045[23:30:44] <BillyZane> mutante, and on that occassion, i can 'stopx' and i won't see any system instability later on?
• 2046[23:30:49] <mutante> at least speaking for audio
• 2047[23:30:54] <dob1> BillyZane, it's the ts140 noisy ?
• 2048[23:31:00] <BillyZane> dob1, no it's very quiet
• 2049[23:31:07] <BillyZane> dob1, it's almost inaudible
• 2050[23:31:24] *** Quits: erle- (~erle-@replaced-ip) (Quit: erle-)
• 2051[23:31:51] <mutante> BillyZane: yea, you would click. but basically. replaced-url
• 2052[23:32:16] *** Quits: bigjazzsound (~craig.fie@75-60-207-113.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net) (Quit: leaving)
• 2053[23:32:54] <BillyZane> i see
• 2054[23:32:58] *** Quits: Steeve (~steve@replaced-ip) (Quit: end)
• 2055[23:33:50] <BillyZane> i will likely build a new desktop, but my ts140 does have great hypervisor features
• 2056[23:33:51] <mutante> in the past this was once normal.. before everything auto-started GUI
• 2057[23:34:20] <mutante> but also I doubt you (as a streaming user) would notice whether X runs on the server or not
• 2058[23:34:40] *** Quits: ax5623 (~ax562@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2059[23:34:44] <BillyZane> i mean, it's a quad core 3.7ghz haswell CPU, with virtualization support and 32 gigs of ram, and my server needs are really not that high. i've actually never ran a server so i'm really just learning
• 2060[23:34:51] *** Joins: ax562 (~ax562@replaced-ip)
• 2061[23:35:19] <mutante> BillyZane: i'd say the hardware is way overkill for your occasional use of ... 1 user ?:)
• 2062[23:35:22] <gnat_x> Yeah. you will not notice whether X is on or not.
• 2063[23:35:27] <BillyZane> mutante, haha
• 2064[23:35:32] <BillyZane> mutante, the CPU was $110
• 2065[23:35:43] <BillyZane> mutante, i'm actually on the TS140 right now
• 2066[23:35:45] <BillyZane> Client: HexChat 2.14.3 • OS: ArchLinux • CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-4150 CPU @ 3.50GHz (3.49GHz) • Memory: Physical: 7.4 GiB Total (1.8 GiB Free) Swap: 8.6 GiB Total (7.5 GiB Free) • Storage: 45.7 GB / 230.2 GB (184.6 GB Free) • VGA: Intel Corporation 4th Generation Core Processor Family Integrated Graphics Controller @ Intel Corporation 4th Gen Core Processor DRAM Controller • Uptime: 5d 2h 0m 10s
• 2067[23:35:58] <ratrace> .... ArchLinux ....
• 2068[23:36:13] <ratrace> Why, Billeh! Oh why, why, whyyyyy!
• 2069[23:36:14] <BillyZane> the current CPU is a dual core, but it runs fine most of the time
• 2070[23:36:16] <BillyZane> lol
• 2071[23:36:36] <ratrace> so this is not a Debian question at all, right?
• 2072[23:36:48] <BillyZane> no, i was thinking of running debian on this
• 2073[23:37:00] <BillyZane> but i don't know what kind of topology i should use
• 2074[23:37:07] <ratrace> topology of what
• 2075[23:37:08] <BillyZane> should i be running a type 1 hypervisor
• 2076[23:37:14] *** Joins: dvs (~hibbard@replaced-ip)
• 2077[23:37:32] <BillyZane> like VMware ESXi, or xen, or KVM
• 2078[23:37:37] <mutante> BillyZane: you are overthinking it. just install the streaming software it becomes a "server"
• 2079[23:37:55] <mutante> VMs are kind of not even related to it
• 2080[23:37:57] <BillyZane> but i want separation between the server and desktop
• 2081[23:38:10] <greycat> why?
• 2082[23:38:44] <greycat> it's like hiring a team of aerospace engineers because you want to fold a paper airplane
• 2083[23:38:49] <ratrace> also nobody is calling them type1 or type2, becsue the distinctoin has been lost really
• 2084[23:39:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1187
• 2085[23:39:05] <ratrace> kvm is also doing paravirt, so it's much less different than, say, xen, than it was years ago
• 2086[23:39:06] *** Joins: doric (~doric@replaced-ip)
• 2087[23:39:47] <ratrace> BillyZane: if you want separation, then just run the server applications in a VM or even containerized
• 2088[23:40:31] <mutante> BillyZane: replaced-url
• 2089[23:40:54] <BillyZane> oh nice
• 2090[23:41:01] *** Quits: st3ma (~st3ma@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
• 2091[23:41:02] <BillyZane> also i had two hard disks (3tb)
• 2092[23:41:09] *** Quits: oxek (qjvl@replaced-ip) (Quit: oxek)
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• 2095[23:43:28] *** Quits: st3ma (~st3ma@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 2096[23:43:29] <BillyZane> so i want to have a file server as well, like a local file server
• 2097[23:43:45] <BillyZane> i do intend to get another PC eventually. i actually have most of the components, it's just CPU prices are so high right now
• 2098[23:44:04] <BillyZane> i'm thinking about just returning all my recently bought PC hardware and waiting till next year
• 2099[23:44:19] <BillyZane> so i'm going to be stuck with this computer as my new desktop
• 2100[23:45:09] <mutante> BillyZane: why have 2 PCs?:)
• 2101[23:45:23] <BillyZane> lol mutante
• 2102[23:45:31] <mutante> you can have plenty of VMs on that
• 2103[23:45:52] *** Quits: ceska (~Cieska@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
• 2104[23:45:53] <mutante> enough RAM for 80 Debian "servers"
• 2105[23:46:24] <mutante> well, maybe 32 :)
• 2106[23:46:38] <BillyZane> lol
• 2107[23:46:51] <BillyZane> this might sound heretical
• 2108[23:46:52] *** Guest57867 is now known as S3xyL1nux
• 2109[23:47:07] <BillyZane> but i'm thinking i should just run arch
• 2110[23:47:14] <BillyZane> because 1) i don't really have server needs
• 2111[23:47:31] <dob1> but sorry, the premis was "I want a server"
• 2112[23:47:33] <ratrace> are we being trolled :)
• 2113[23:47:36] <BillyZane> haha
• 2114[23:47:43] <ratrace> I think we're being trolled.
• 2115[23:47:44] <BillyZane> no you are not. i'm just sitting here thinking
• 2116[23:48:00] <mutante> yea, now it's getting into "distro war" plus "not debian" plus "server with no server needs"
• 2117[23:48:03] <mutante> I think i'm out
• 2118[23:48:09] <BillyZane> rofl
• 2119[23:48:11] <mrkramps> you could run a debian vm on an arch linux host
• 2120[23:48:17] <BillyZane> that's true
• 2121[23:48:41] <BillyZane> but it seems backwards right? i don't consider arch to be stable. but debian? if a robot was doing open heart surgery on me, i'd want it to run debian
• 2122[23:49:21] <BillyZane> my ultra stable server's foundation is an unstable rolling release distro with X running
• 2123[23:49:32] <dob1> I never thought debian in this way
• 2124[23:49:33] <mutante> let me use a classic for the old farts here: *plonk*
• 2125[23:49:46] <ratrace> hey!
• 2126[23:51:13] <mutante> *barely knows what a server is* ... *uses term 'rolling release distro'* :p
• 2127[23:51:20] <dvs> whippersnapper!
• 2128[23:51:24] <gnat_x> BillyZane: i think what you want is to run something like nextcloud on a VM. Then if you want to separate out "server" from "desktop" you can do that on network, and filesystem level. meaning that you can easily separate them on a hardware level down the road. run all that on top of a desktop. you won't notice.
• 2129[23:51:45] <dob1> I would suggest to put the open heart surgery quote as dpkg factoid :)
• 2130[23:51:57] <ratrace> c'mon, every archer knows what a "rolling release" is, it's their number one selling bulletpoint
• 2131[23:53:02] *** Quits: mbrad (~mbrad@replaced-ip) (Quit: leaving)
• 2132[23:53:24] *** Quits: jukeboh (~noname@replaced-ip) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
• 2133[23:53:40] <BillyZane> lol
• 2134[23:54:20] <BillyZane> gnat_x, man i'm just trying to figure out what you said
• 2135[23:55:22] <BillyZane> ok i see. so i would create a file system for the VM, and some day, transfer that file system on to its own dedicated hardware
• 2136[23:55:26] <gnat_x> i just mean, install debian like you were setting up a desktop. them install KVM or something, and spin up a VM to run nextcloud on it.
• 2137[23:55:50] <ratrace> or you could flatpak it
• 2138[23:55:56] <gnat_x> i tend to put VMs on their own logical volumes.
• 2139[23:55:58] <ratrace> much less overhead and fiddling
• 2140[23:56:03] <mrkramps> lol
• 2141[23:56:06] <gnat_x> true.
• 2142[23:56:31] <gnat_x> but sometimes people enjoy fiddling...
• 2143[23:56:58] <ratrace> a'ight
• 2144[23:57:50] <mutante> yea, maybe he should compile the streaming server himself on gentoo to optimize it for the 1 user on a quadcore
• 2145[23:58:43] <gnat_x> if someone is trying to do something the hard way for learning reasons, i can support a certain amount of that... but yeah, that may not be what's happening.
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